| IVOD_ID |
17363 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17363 |
| 日期 |
2026-04-20 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-23-8 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期交通委員會第8次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
8 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
23 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
交通委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期交通委員會第8次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2026-04-20T08:31:03+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-04-20T12:01:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
03:29:57 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/f826c2e4afc302ddc55f4f65de21a2ead6a76734f7399182b1d480c4e0b4ea520f9b155ca47870035ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-04-20T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期交通委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國家運輸安全調查委員會主任委員林信得列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:31:03 - 12:01:00 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
348.507 |
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349.698 |
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谢谢观看,下次见! |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1322.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1323.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
谢谢观看,下次见! |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1743.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1749.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
初期委員已達法定人數 我們現在開始開會我們請議事人員先宣讀上次會議議事錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1751.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1776.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
立法院第十一屆第五會期交通委員會第七次全體委員會議議事錄實踐中華民國一百一十五年四月十五日星期三上午九十二分至十二時四十七分地點本院紅樓二零一會議室出席委員李昆澤等十四人列席委員鍾嘉斌等十七人列席官員交通部部長陳士凱等主席林昭吉委員郡縣 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1777.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1806.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
報告事項宣讀上次會議議事錄決定議事錄確定邀請交通部部長陳士凱等進行專題報告並備質詢本日會議由交通部部長陳士凱等報告後暨由委員李昆澤等19人提出質詢均經交通部部長陳士凱及相關人員分別予以答覆決議一報告及詢答完畢二委員洪玉祥等三人所提書面質詢均列入記錄並刊登公報 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1807.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1835.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
三委員於質詢中要求提供相關書面資料或未及答覆部分請交通部及相關機關盡速以書面答覆通過臨時提案二項散會宣讀完畢好我們議事錄稍後再來處理我們先介紹在場委員侯孟楷委員我們介紹列席官員國家運輸安全調查委員會主任委員林信德主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1837.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1865.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
副組委何慶生副組委陳天賜專委張文環專委李延年專委主任秘書姚承安執行長林佩達航空調查組組長蘇水兆水路調查組組長關文玲 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1869.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1897.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
鐵道調查組組長 吳吉村公路調查組組長 日志一運輸安全組組長 鄭永安運輸工程組組長 莊禮彰人事室主任 廖娟慧政風室主任 康熙平主計室主任 孫淑信秘書室主任 張雅婷 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1899.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1909.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
好謝謝那本日會議進行的是國家運輸安全調查委員會列席的報告業務概況那我們現在請列席機關報告請運安會林信德主委進行報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1921.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1938.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
主席 各位委員 各位女士 先生大家好今天非常榮幸列席各位委員會向主席及各位委員報告運安會的業務重點就請各位委員不吝給予指導與建議本會主要職長重大運輸事故之調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1939.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
1955.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
調查範圍涵蓋航空、水路、鐵道及公路透過系統性的調查完整發掘可能噪音及安全風險提出改善建議以防止類似事故再發生以下向各位委員報告本會的重點業務 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
1957.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
1980.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
在重大運輸事故的調查方面第一目前的整體調查進度自108年8月要成立期間4月10號為止共立案328件其中287件已經結案還有25件調查中包括航空立案24件結案19件調查3件共發布累計發布1116改善建議水路 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
1984.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
1985.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
調查235件 結案212件 調查中8件 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
1990.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2013.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
發布357件項的改善建議鐵道立案36件 結案32件調查中事件發布改善建議有243項公路調查34件 結案24件 調查中事件發布改善建議197項現在包括近期的重要調查案去年 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2015.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2036.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
去年114年10月28日空勤總隊一架直升機於大甲溪河口執行夜市境訓練的時候駕駛艙儀表中央下方突然冒出煙霧主演立即執行緊急程序安全法人跡軍安這個案子我們預定在今年的11月發布最終調查報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2037.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2064.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
關五二 去年一月十五日一輛電動小客車以國道一號陽美休息站閘道自創封隔道後起火造成四死四傷這個案子本會預計在今年的四月下旬也就是應該是這個禮拜左右會發布最終的調查報告關五三 去年五月十九日一輛自用小客車在新北三峽區連續撞擊機車及行人造成四死四傷 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2065.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2076.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
這個案子預料在下個月會發布最終調查報告關乎是去年6月16日大都會刻意一輛電動公車在台北市敦化北路停靠時 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2078.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2104.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
電池起火雖無人傷亡在引起社會對電動公車安全的高度關注這個案子在預計在十月份發布最終調查報告關五去年四月二十日台鐵花蓮幾乎斷一輛吊車機執行連掛作業的時候撞擊停留車造成設備損害那這個案子在今年的三月上個月三月二十五日已經發布最終調查報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2105.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2125.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
關五六前年一百一十三年十月二十三日巴拿馬級的液化鐵纜氣船台達二號以台中港出港船所觸碰防波堤造成船所及防波堤受損本案已經在去年十二月發布最終調查報告現在報告相關的業務成果第一 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2126.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2148.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
強化志願報告系統的運作本會建置的運輸安全志願報告系統讓運輸從業人員通報過程中發現的安全隱患是防範與未來的重要機制去年更接獲97件的志願報告今年已經接獲30件那麼也預計今年的事業發行上半年的市級專刊 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2149.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2170.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
本會將會繼續推廣資源包括系統我們定化以完成水路五個共六十一個主管機關及業者的網站建置系統連結並與相關聯繫會宣導希望各位各種業者或從業人員能夠充分利用資源包括系統二追蹤改善建議的落實情形本會迄今共發布 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2173.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2186.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
1913項的藝術改善建議參會解除對管者有82項那麼本會每半年都追蹤進度並透過定期召開安全協調工作會議還有安全資訊的分享研討會等協助所有的機關過來落實 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2188.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2203.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
目前列管的騎乘航空有4項水路有26項鐵道31項公路21項那其中列管超過三年者有15項主要是涉及主管機關的法規修正或系統設施的工程本會將持續追蹤進度 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2206.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2220.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
三提升新興載具的調查能量有這一電動車自駕系統的新興應具快速發展本會採取具體的因應行動去年已經辦理五場的五場的專題研討涵蓋電動車先進駕駛 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2224.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2234.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
輔助系統電動大購車等主題並主動立案調查事故目前已完成兩件另外還有調查中的兩件包括亞美岸大都會公車的電動車的公車案 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2238.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2257.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
接下來包括積極參與國際交流本會去年主辦多場的國際論壇讓我國在全球的運輸安全調查專業領域的舞台上扮演主動積極的角色去年5月主辦2025亞太事故調查工程技術論壇有6個國家代表與會去年10月主辦鐵道事故調查國際論壇有來自11個國家32個代表與會包括國內的產官學員總共有100人參加 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2267.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2296.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
我們會持續派人赴英美化等國參加專業訓練引進最新的調查技術導入AI技術增進調查的效能本會已經在多個調查環節積極運用AI的科技在AI的辦公工具裡面我們快速處理訪談及會議的錄音AI無人機方面我們自動規劃拍攝路徑並全向避障提升現場測量的效率以調查人員的安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2296.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2319.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
在A案辨識語音變數方面我們正研究應用C型座艙語音記錄器也就是超過25小時的這種記錄器的語音超限的輔助作業第六全面解讀各式的運具的記錄器本會以完成114年各具運具的記錄裝置的普查作業航空水路鐵道公路的解讀力所有都是達100% |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2322.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2342.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
現在包括近期重要運輸安全改善建議第一強化航空公司重落地的通報與監控本會調查安全安潔航空緊急醫療包機至台灣返回金門機場的備群任務與機場以金門機場落地或發現機體結構實質損害之事故調查發現安潔的疑似重落地仰賴駕駛員主動提報缺乏系統性有效之通報與監控機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2352.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2376.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
所以建議民航局及安捷航空強化疑似縱漏地的監控與通報機制二建立道路安全審核的機制本會調查台21線採查貨車的事故豐滿遊覽車自創國道寒凍事故等調查案時發現我國尚未建立道路安全審核的機制所以建立交通部 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2378.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2382.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
技術建立道路安全守護基礎 民定道路安全系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2383.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2411.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
工程各生命週期階段應計程式檢查項目並落實執行以提升道路的交通安全三強化遊覽車客運及貨運業駕駛出勤管理機制本會調查眷權遊覽車車撞事故實務剎車車撞停等車震事故中聯遊覽車房屋事故等調查案的時候均發現駕駛員疲勞駕駛及休息時間不足的議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2412.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2418.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
所以建議交通部盡速完成運輸業裝設駕駛身份識別設備之法規並強化營業者對駕駛員勤務管理以減少疲勞駕駛四強化軌道檢查以養護機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2428.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2451.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
本會調查台鐵列車以七堵幾乎斷吊車出軌事故發現現成軌道檢查方法及養護週期為依列車使用的頻率適時調整以致難以及時辨識軌道缺陷並立即改善所以建議台鐵導入科學檢查工具及方式並依軌道倒差類型及使用頻率優化養護的週期 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2456.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2466.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
5強化台鐵沿線土石流前市溪流之監控管理本會調查台鐵列車以新河仁隧道撞擊溢流土石流 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2467.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2489.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
自出軌的事故時發現部分外物入侵告解系統畏懼AI的辨識及告解功能因此建議台鐵強化訓練並建議交通部建立跨機關的聯防機制以立即早掌握預留情形並採取防護措施現在報告預期施政及建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2490.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2517.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
第一期施政的績效我們會繼續提升運輸安全發覺事故的噪音掩體具體可行運輸安全改善建議預防類似事件再發生強化國際合作透過交流平台引進各國優異之調查與安全理念制度與技術增進調查能力參加國內外的專業訓練提升調查人員的事故調查技術所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2518.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2539.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
本會將秉持獨立公正專業的精神執行重大海陸空運輸事故的調查並持續努力精進專業知識以預防事故於未然感謝委員波隆聆聽敬請各位委員對本會業務予以支持共同為提升台灣海陸空運輸持續努力以上報告完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2546.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2557.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
好謝謝我們林主委那補充介紹出席委員萬美玲委員那請問各位委員對於議事錄有沒有意見好我們議事錄確定 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2561.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2582.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
那我現在準備進行詢答 先宣告以下事項 詢答時間初期委員6加2分鐘 列席委員4加1分鐘委員發言登記時間在10點30分截止那各位委員如果有臨時提案 請在10點前提出 以便議事人員會診我們暫定10點30分 休息10分鐘現在請登記第一位委員 侯孟楷委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2590.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2614.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
主席謝謝 麻煩請林主委我們請林主委主委好 主委我們越南會本席一直強調是說最好是我們都不要有發生事情我們可以來超前部署預作防範那這個禮拜在本席的選區也發生一個重大的這個建設即將落成就淡江大橋 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2615.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2637.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
那交通部長禮拜六也到我們淡江大橋去參與這個路跑的民腔活動那我先請教因為馬上就有民眾上橋的時候才發現就是說這個機車道相對來講太窄這個是民眾看到之後而且這是現場當天的一個情況就是說一台僅用的摩托車經過的時候感覺它就已經這一個車道就已經滿了 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2638.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2653.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
那所以說沒有辦法有在這個進出那如果說在橋上發生碰撞的話可能造成這個危險好 那馬上也有媒體下標這就像是狗道啊這用的比較不好聽就是相對來講意思就是說比較小條 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2654.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2675.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
所以我現在也想請運安會請教一下我們專業的意見 兩個部分第一 過去我們有沒有給予譬如說公路單位或是我們相關的道路設計的一個建議說到底如果說現行的機車專用道多少的寬度以上是符合我們機車專用道的一個安全有沒有這樣的一個規劃或設計或是建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2678.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2694.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
我們今天的義務包括裡面有關RSA的道路安全解決機制我們也許可以擴大跟交通部建議說不是只有汽車道機車可能也要去注意所以之前我們運安會主導的是沒有機車道的部分沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2695.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2716.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
所以都是由公路局這邊來自行認定因為公路局他們搬出來他們的一個內規是講是說符合現行機車道符合規定但是這個就是大家的一個這個感覺體感那尤其是您看到左右兩邊它的鋼索在這邊那無形當中它的視野你可能就會讓機車騎士他就會比較 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2718.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2725.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
擔心或是說比較不敢往這個鋼索這邊靠攏因為鋼索如果一個碰撞這個是非同小可嘛好那我們再來看到第二個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2728.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2756.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
來 下面一張 這個是現在上面這一張是關渡橋應該是不是關渡橋還是我們同仁是抓其他地方其他地方的橋樑 這個是混合橋樑這不是關渡橋啦 抱歉我看錯這不是關渡橋 但就是說現行我們也開始在檢討是說一定要保留機車專用道嗎還是說可以混合車道因為很多民眾的想法也有另外一個講法就是說其實不要再有點類似歧視機車族 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2757.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2775.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
就是說機車只能走機車專用道 汽車走汽車道好像美其名是保護 但實際上是有點類似歧視的概念所以我們現在也有一些道路設計師已經把機車專用道給拿掉然後希望是說用混合車道的方式但是要求大家都要依照速限來行駛 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2776.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2787.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
所以我也想請教一下這個比較專業意見就是說你以我們運安會現在也處理過大小的這個公路的一個狀況我們目前的方向或是建議到底是應該往哪個方向走 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2789.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2809.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
這個我覺得委員這個意見非常好我們通常會定期這個航空水路鐵路公路會有一些藝術安全的研討會我們會把這個議題帶到研討會去跟公路主管機關開講這個可能要注意一般就如我們剛剛委員講我們都是對汽車啦那機車方面我們可能還要再去find out出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2810.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2836.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
那如果說剛剛主委也講了就是說我覺得這個方向是正向的就是說過去我們可能比較重視到汽車組但機車組的權益其實更重要為什麼因為全台一千四百萬輛二輪機車組一千四百萬輛平均可能家戶都有超過一個家戶都有一輛以上的機車所以兩個部分我就拜託一下主委因為這個禮拜四本席也感謝召委安排我們會到 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2836.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2861.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
淡水跟巴黎坐淡江大橋通車前的一個在檢視交通的部分那我也把這個議題給納入那是不是我也可以再邀請我們運安會當天也出席如果說有的話就可以提供一些寶貴的建議不一定用到但是至少我們那一天我們一起到現場可能沒有辦法到現場但是就到淡水跟巴黎來做開會討論那您這邊也提供專業意見那另外第二個部分機車道未來 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2862.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2884.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
到底該不該專用到還是要該不該分流還是要混合這一點剛剛主委有特別提到未來會納入我們的這個運安會的道路交通的會議來去做討論並且給我們交通部門做一個後續政策的研究嘛是不是我會把議題拋出來跟他們討論好因為真的有兩派說法啦一派說法是講是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2886.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2914.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
機車二輪跟四輪不要混一起我也真的有聽過這樣的說法是說因為有些時候大車容易逼車造成機車歧視的一個膽戰但是也有另外的說法是說當機車族都是要走機車專用道的時候其實是一個歧視而且如果說連同現場我們現在看到下面淡江大橋的規劃路那麼窄的情況假設上面有一個碰撞那後面的機車都塞滿了那更重要的是救護車怎麼上來 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2916.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
2932.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
對不對其實你看下面這張圖淡江大橋如果說兩邊都有柵欄那救護車如果說真的發生碰撞的話那救護車他要走哪邊公路局第一時間回應是講是說可以走右邊這個叫做行人專用道 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
2934.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
2950.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
那行人專用道不是行人走的嗎沒想到到最後是規劃是說要來救護車來上來可是更重要的是旁邊又有這個柵欄那如果說機車朋友他碰撞 雷殘 跌倒了他沒有辦法行動了那我們單駕要怎麼樣經過 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
2952.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
2975.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
是要跨過那個柵欄所以說其實這一些都是在還沒有通車前還沒有現場我們沒有辦法上去看之前沒有辦法知道的但是現在還有一個月就是到5月12號正式通車前我們也要求主管機關公路局一定要正視地方的問題跟疑慮那我們也希望在這個月裡面趕快滾動檢討來找出最合適的辦法所以我們也請運安會跟我們一起努力這樣好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
2976.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3003.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
是謝謝好來那主委另外我們再來提到就是說剛剛我們也講到今年是太魯閣號的事件發生五週年那其實台鐵的安全提高這個是我們大家一起努力要求的我想運安會也做了很多的努力那重點在於是什麼重點在於是說現在我們還是看到很多時候是有所謂的吊車場的重大吊車事故那這個是本席整理出來的資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3004.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3018.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
這是跟台鐵公司以及交通部單位來整理的資料我發覺過去這五年尤其是2024年台鐵從台鐵局變台鐵公司公司化之後吊車事故件數沒有減少 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3020.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3037.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
反而他的傷亡數還是有呈現2022年2023年反而相對比較低而且沒有傷亡數但2024年發生了就是公司化之後反而2024年2025年件數又上升而且畢竟有傷亡 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3038.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3054.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
所以我覺得說在這一個部分上面來講還是要問到底台鐵公司他公司化之後沒有比較安全那運安會在這邊能夠給予台鐵公司怎麼樣的督促跟協助來要求台鐵公司找出問題來解決問題主委是不是可以再說明一下好 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3056.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3083.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
呃 我也講得沒有錯台鐵的吊車事故確實偏高啊從雲南匯八108.28要成立到現在齁總共有76件的吊車事故那吊車庫的前大三大的事故類型齁都是第一個是出軌有28件然後擠擦有26件沖創有13件等等那其中以七堵最多 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3083.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3104.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
再來就是花蓮那這個整個來看它整個吊車事故喔就是它人為因素居大部分人為因素對那但是您剛也提到就是說七堵跟花蓮那是這兩個地點的人訓練相對來講比較不專業還是說他比較容易缺工還是說他人員不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3105.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3131.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
否則的話為什麼會是又集中在這兩個吊車場還是說這兩個吊車場的吊車量很多所以說它的比例來講也會相對比較高確實它的母數比較高沒錯對 那但是大多數還是人為因素嘛所以我們當然還是要對症下藥所以本席的立場還是很堅定就是說我們希望的是不要有事故但如果說發生事故之後我們能夠看科學的數據找出痛點來解決問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3133.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3140.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
那台鐵公司化那時候也是希望是說要安全啊所以現在我們看到了問題但是解方在哪邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3142.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3169.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
這才是本席想要今天就教主委或是我們這個鐵道組的部分我是不是請鐵道組來簡單說明一下好不好是報告委員台鐵的吊車事故到目前為止我們已經有針對這個事故類型做五件的立案調查那主要是第一個在人為的操作方面就是吊車座位的人員的這個工作分配跟協調還有人員對於SOP的這個落實度 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3170.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3190.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
那第二個我們也在去年分別在七堵機務段還有這個花蓮各立一個案子那主要是針對於這個設備的維護包括剛剛有提到的列車出軌的事故那主要是跟設備維護有關那另外花蓮機務段這個撞擊停留車的事故主要是跟人為的操作有關所以不同的類型我們都有立案調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3191.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3204.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
那未來也會朝這方面給予改善建議好 所以我們現在來做這樣子相關調查其實人為在很大的因素那人不外乎就兩點本席看到的一個是訓練專業度不足一個是人力不夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3206.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3228.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
這兩點都有可能是人為因素因為如果說訓練專業度不足就等於是他明明要訓練100個小時但他可能30個小時急救張因為缺人他就馬上上線了這是一個樣態有可能的另外一個樣態是他就真的人不夠所以即便是老經驗的師傅他工作了8小時10小時12小時他也會精神恍惚而造成人為的疏失 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3228.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3249.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
那現在比較傾向哪一個因為每一次我們跟台鐵講台鐵都說他們會努力他們會加緊但是我們現在想要用外部比較專業的力量去告訴他們是說你如果要加人你應該加人如果你應該要增加訓練時數你應該要增加訓練時數而不能每一次都推給說人手不足那第一線到最後就第一線人員倒楣啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3252.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3279.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
是包委員那目前根據我們現在尤其是我們在3月份有針對於這個台鐵在河仁站吊車撞擊到這個水泥貨車還有在3月30在七堵吊車場這邊發生的這個重裝事件我們有立案調查那這部分我目前確實我們會朝人力的運用包括他的訓練方面會去做做一次分析那看到底是人力的不足什麼時候可以出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3280.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3300.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
包委員這個案子的這個事實資料報告我們最快在9月以前會先出份事實資料我們盡快我們盡快我們目前是規劃但是我們盡快因為這個合併兩個案子一起調查所以需要一點點時間那這個部分我們預計會朝人力的運用訓練甚至於人員對於SOP落實度的部分進行比較深度的一個分析 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3300.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3319.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
好 來 主委那最後簡單一分鐘啦本期就講是說因為我們還是希望是運安會成立其實我今天在質詢的時候我也在思考如果哪一天我們運安會可以變成是行安會行車安全委員會就是說不只是運輸安全是行車安全那更好的 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3320.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3343.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
用意跟宗旨是什麼從過去的非安會到運安會如果未來我們變成是往前安會來行走意思是我們希望不要有重大事故之後我們再來調查而是我們現在已經看到問題我們就是超前部署去預作防範那未來都沒有重大事故運安會的業務可以越加越單純變成是運安會就是一個把脈的醫師 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3345.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3373.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
內診的醫師不要實當外科醫師不要出了大問題之後再來動手術而是我們可以透過平常的內診就點出問題讓各不管是公路水路空運能夠找到問題然後防範未來我想這是本席的期待所以像這一個鐵路吊車的事故既然已經有這些數據都一直看到是說近兩年公司化之後並沒有下降的情況那九月出來我相信九月出來前你們可能會再找台鐵公司開混 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3373.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3399.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
那至少在開會的時候一定要點出到底是人力不足的問題還是訓練不夠的問題還是有什麼其他的問題但最根本是點出來之後要求台鐵公司要來做改善這一個也是本席會拿到你們的專業意見之後我們會來督促台鐵公司我相信交通委員會的人都會一起努力但最重要是我們需要一個把脈的結果這樣可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3400.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3412.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
我們也認為這個應該有多方來督促他比較好那就拜託主委 那本席會持續緊盯這個議題我們一起為鐵路安全 也為我們的公路安全來努力好不好 謝謝謝謝委員 謝謝好 謝謝洪孟楷委員我們接下來請萬美玲委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3427.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3430.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
我們看到台鐵在3月12號次強號列車在新左營發生火災3月13一部柴電機車跟水泥貨車出軌的一個事故 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3452.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3474.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
那麼3月30又發生兩列EMU900區間車在七堵的吊車廠相撞出軌那但是我想要請教一下主委為什麼3月13跟這個3月30那這兩件案子要並案來調查那您剛剛有說到說這個調查要9月30才要出來為何又需要這麼久的時間 以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3475.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3499.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
我請那個鐵塔組組長因為這兩個案子有一點雷同那如果3月30號這個案子重啟調查的話那個程序走一趟會浪費時間或者要縮短時間所以把這兩個合併那為什麼要到9月30這麼久謝謝報告委員3月13號台鐵在河仁站我只想知道為什麼調查時間需要這麼久 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3500.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3527.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
包委因為我們的調查主要是第一個我們要收集現場的這些證據然後我們要解讀這個記錄器了解當時的車速還有當時的這些人為操作情形那重點是我們要檢視台鐵提供的相關吊車的這個標準作業程序還有我們要進行人員的訪談等於是我們第一個部分要先把這個事故的過程那能夠先能夠還原那我們才能接下來但你以上所說的這些我都不覺得需要到六七個月七八個月啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3530.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3556.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
這個我來報告一下我們每一個不管是航空、水路、鐵道、公路每一個案子的調查的流程序是有五大階段嘛我當然知道有它的階段啦但是主委其實這件案子相對單純啦那您剛剛所說的不管是什麼現場會刊啦保全證據啦然後人員的這個約談啦等等我本身都不覺得需要到六個月、七個月啦所以我是在提醒啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3557.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3568.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
院會是不是以後像在台鐵如果是比較在這個內部或者是說在調度場發生的事情是不是能夠再加快速度一點那你看我其實本席調閱了過往我們調查的報告裡面我發現我們台鐵在吊車時相撞的類似事故除了現在我們在談的這兩起之外其實去年4月在花蓮段也發生過 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3582.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3611.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
那麼在你們的那個調查報告當中我們更可以看到在同類型的事件113年 114年也發生過了四起那誠如剛才主委所說的為什麼這兩件病案因為類似所以類似的事件其實一而再再而三的一直去發生嘛那其中事故的原因以過去這運安會有說很多大部分都是人為失誤造成的這本席看到可是呢這個台鐵公司的考核確說都有符合標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3611.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3632.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
所以主委我想請教一下如果您認為是就是說您的調查報告是說人為失誤但是台鐵的考核制度卻說符合標準那你會不會覺得其實台鐵的考核制度會某些程度來說淪為形式可能沒有很大的作用所以事故才會一再的發生那再來 院安會的調查報告也有示警對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3633.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3643.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
那一而再再而再的事情但是這個事件也不斷的發生那台鐵卻一直沒有改善那在這一點 運安會給什麼樣的建議會不會覺得真的很有無力感 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3644.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3671.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
我們對重複發生或者是有系統性的風險的事故我們會做議題的分析調查事故我們已經跟台鐵已經協調聯絡公共這個案子再向下級的話可能會出大事他也知道但是他說他的考核都是符合標準的但你卻說是有人為失誤這是很大的落差為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3672.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3673.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
你們討論過這樣子兩個截然不同的說法嗎應該不是說說法 調查結果嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3679.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3705.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
投論過嗎應該是以運安會調查結果為主以運安會調查結果為主那如果以運安會調查結果為主那這可能後續我們就必須要台鐵提出一個說明跟報告如果運安會的調查才是正確的以他為主但是呢台鐵的考核機制說我們都已經有符合標準我覺得這樣的落差運安會似乎應該要再給他更多的一個建議也好或者是我覺得橫向大家應該要怎麼來溝通好 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3707.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3723.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
那再來運安會的業務報告當中本席也看到您說當前改善意見沒有解列數高達82件列管超過3年以上的總數量更高達15件這個我能不能用白話解讀就是各部會根本就不太理會運安會的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3726.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3749.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
有些改善建議是涉及比較長的計劃期程譬如說航空台中清泉港它是軍用機場當時發生灰岸事故是有建議它的跑道要加設中心線燈它橫波度要改善我知道啦但是主委你不能拿單一那種看起來就知道困難度很高無法改善甚至於需要很多很久時間才能改善82件 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3751.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3752.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
為解列說82件欸 你有沒有把這82件拿出來看一看檢討一下過 為什麼82件一直沒有辦法解列 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3759.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3787.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
八十二件是還沒有解列的那超過三年的只有十五項十有喔 十五件很多啦 主委主委這樣好不好我們針對這八十二件你會後我建議你回頭去審視一下也自己看一看這八十二件現在我們一直在列管不是放著列管就好那是不是能夠給我們一個數據說它為什麼到現在在列管我們有沒有近期的追蹤那這十五件又是怎麼回事會後我們一個月內給我們一個報告可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3787.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3794.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
沒問題我們事實上有定期找他們來開會好報告出來我想我們大家都很清楚了接下來我們再來問航空的問題那桃園機場今年2月發生了德威航空一架班機在降落的時候輪胎脫落 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3802.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3815.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
那隨即呢越捷航空又有這個走錯滑行道那桃園機場一度關閉北跑道那後續還有三個航班因為燃油不足喊出main day我覺得這是蠻嚴重的事情不過呢看起來就是說運安會當時是講說因為沒有造成實質 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3822.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3826.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
那個航空器的實質損害它是根據國際民航公約第13號覆約裡面有關實質損害的定義這個定義對這個輪胎煞車輪軸的損害它是被排除掉的 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3851.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3871.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
而且我們對重大意外事故的這個13號覆約裡面還有一個列舉的項目這幾項沒有在包括在裡面所以這個那我請教一下主委喔當然你是依據國際民航公約啦來看但事實上有的時候我們也知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3872.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
3890.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
條約公約或者是說這個文字它其實沒有辦法規範到每一個事件它都是百分之百的安全那我們覺得我們重演那謹慎的來看待其實會更好嘛那我們過去也有看到可能看起來是一個小事故後來釀成大的飛案的事故其實我想在這個國際間 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
3891.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
3907.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
實有所聞啦並不是沒有所以我覺得我們更嚴謹是比較好的好 那當然我是這樣就要請教一下雖然我們沒有去做一個介入調查但是現在我們知不知道到底像德威航空這樣的狀況是因為疏於維修這個班機還是說是有是個別班機的意外還是現場有什麼狀況那麼越捷航空會有這樣的一個走錯這個滑行道是我們在他們的這個相關的人員訓練問題還是在現場的場地指導問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
3921.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
3948.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
這個現在我們知道了嗎如果是屬於重大事故範圍的事運安會調查那屬於一般意外的屬於這種疏失的民航局會做行政調查那民航局調查完畢以後會不會讓您也知道或者你會不會去跟他說我們也想要了解知道來立案民航局都是互通有無他會告訴我們互通有無那所以互通有無的結果現在您知道了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
3949.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
3964.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
我們還沒看到他的結果你說你都會互通有誤然後互通有誤的結果是你現在也還不知道因為他還沒告訴我們要去了解好不好因為這是二月份發生的事情那你是打算兩年後再來了解嗎所以我想我們要積極一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
3967.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
3984.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
我剛剛還是這麼講啦 尤其是非安的這種東西誰都沒有辦法保證一顆小螺絲有問題會被釀成大意外好 那我們再來看到 運安會在官網當中有建置一個運輸安全志願報告系統嘛這其中包含非安鐵道公路跟水路 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
3984.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
3994.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
那這個作用需要讓一般民眾或者是相關從業人員來通報自己可能會有一些相關危害安全的一個相關狀況那這個系統建制到現在這個案件數有達到預期嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4000.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4022.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
倒不是議題就是說我們建立這個系統我們希望越多越好那現在有多少件現在成立到現在從108改造區現在有總共有545件的資源的報告那有包括運輸重圍容顏或民眾直接提報那這500多件當中那有去處理是真正有這個危害安全的狀況的有多少件 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4022.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4042.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
這個我請院長主來副委員報告那這545件裡面大概有60%是有這個安全價值那這些有安全價值的部分我們在每半年都會出版成專刊各個模組都會出版成一個專刊那裡面會把相關的案例去做整理然後會分售給相關的營運局官 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4043.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4060.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
如果達到六成以上 這個系統其實就有它的價值在那但是呢 本席查閱 不管鐵道局啦 航港局啦 民航局啊它其實也都有相 就是一樣的建制的系統啦所以 那運安會的這個系統跟我們現在各局自己建立的系統有什麼差別 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4062.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4077.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
應該是說其實在這個資源報告系統裡面不管是營運單位或者監禮單位或者是像我們在吊牙單位我們都有這樣的資源報告系統那主要是讓這個民航從業人員運輸從業人員裡面他可以選擇他信任的系統去提報 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4077.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4077.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
因為它是自發性的 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4107.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4127.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
那當然也有可能就是說 有沒有可能浪費了相關的資源啦 人力啦 甚至建制的經費啦本期給你們一個建議啦剛剛如果說60%是有參考價值 我覺得不錯但是請主委會後 我覺得可以跟我們相關的這些單位來看看是不是有這個整合的必要或者是橫向的在平台上面 怎麼有一個更好的做法也避免多頭馬車跟資源浪費 好不好好 謝謝委員 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4132.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4137.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
好謝謝萬美玲委員的發言接下來請林俊憲召委發言感謝主席本期邀請我們運安會的林主委我們請林主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4160.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4177.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
運安會是一個非常重要的單位只是可惜一般民眾可能也不知道我們在做什麼或者是說我們跟外界的彼此互動我認為我們可以參考幾項國外的做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4178.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4206.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
比如說現在民眾比較關心的或者是我們運安會正積極在調查的幾個安全問題我舉個例子 你像澳洲澳洲的運安會他就會用一個所謂安全建議Safety Watch他就說我現在在做這些事情讓民眾了解到你關心的事情那我們有正在做例如大家對於新興載具的疑慮 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4209.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4222.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
最近發生幾個重大的電動車的車禍像去年楊梅休息站自撞起火的事情那是非常悲哀 人間慘劇 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4224.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4245.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
那兩個好像兩個大人六個小孩撞了車子起火最後導致啊一個大人跟三個小孩不幸離難是死是傷啊這是重大車禍那起火撞到以後呢那個電動車就燒起來了這是我不知道是不是國產還是進口這是一個掛韓國韓國品牌的汽車了 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4250.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4277.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
另外像更嚴重的去年6月大都會電動公車起火這個電動公車沒有車禍他沒有撞到任何東西停在路邊自己燒起來還好沒有導致任何的傷亡這公車是公共運輸了如果萬一你滿載上面集滿了乘客那起火了那還得了 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4279.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4292.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
所以像這種類似重大的交通事情事故我們運安會我相信你們有在調查我看你今天的業務報告你說你今年有發布事實資料報告預計今年10月 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4293.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4318.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
才會提出最終的調查是不是這樣子來 主委你談一下你對這兩項事情還有對新興運輸載具那未來我們運安會有沒有什麼樣的一個對於相關不幸事故的防範我們有沒有調查出什麼樣的建議具體建議來 請我們對新興運具的具體的做法是這樣子我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4320.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4342.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
把這個人員訓練加強然後在實務調查中會從專業上的調查能量來提升那剛剛委員提到的遙美休息站找到這個案子大概這個月的下旬也就是下個禮這個禮拜啦 因為會結案啦大都會這個公車這個案子也 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4344.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4364.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
十月份會完成那委員講的沒有錯我們對電動公車有一些事故尤其是電池我們現在也是在建立檔案建立這個資料庫看看能不能能不能做有系統上的一個分析你剛講的系統性的資料分析我待會也會跟你談這個問題第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4367.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4395.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
為什麼車輛事故啊都會有啊那你看為什麼最怕的就是碰撞以外啊你像這種騎火燃燒尤其電動車楊梅那個慘劇發生是因為他撞了以後啊喪失了電力啊所以他車子打不開啊他整台車都電動鎖了你現在弄不掉喔電動電力斷了以後啊連逃生的最後機會都沒有了所以才會死傷那麼慘 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4397.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4425.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
那公車無緣無故自燃 自燃那這個更是更是嚴重了所以我就覺得運安會其實你們的調查甚至可以影響到相關主管部會的一個政策決定你像他發生車禍到底為什麼要來你剛才說人員都是駕駛的問題嗎那公車自己燒起來 你怎麼說那他也不太好了啦他司機也沒發生什麼 也沒做什麼事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4427.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4430.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
所以他可能是會不會是零組件的問題或者是組裝設計這個車輛根本就設計有問題等等的 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4437.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4464.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
其實國人這個是非常關注的政府又在大力的推動相關電動車交通部編列補助電動公車將近一千億,好幾百億像這種公車會電動,電子會自動起火自然性的起火,這是多可怕的事情還有我們郵安會其實有相當大的一個影響力和建議權 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4466.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4488.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
你的報告其實是最專業的例如你說那個三峽自用小客車衝撞行人的事故你的報告裡面寫你要調查是不是有用藥管理駕駛是不是有吃藥的問題我不知道你們還在調查那是不是高齡駕駛換照制度的問題所以年齡跟車禍有沒有直接關係跟車禍的發生比例有沒有直接關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4494.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4501.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
呃 邏輯上應該是沒有這個東西但是高齡車子可能會有間接的那哪一個年齡開車最危險?老人開車最危險嗎?是這樣嗎?不見得啦不一定嘛年輕氣盛孩子也要 年輕人也要更可怕那你能不能做一個系統的分析統計因為交通部現在把70歲以上老人原本他 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4521.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4545.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
他逐年換照原本是75歲把他降低到70歲那加農部就是說因為他這麼做他就是加農部認定老人駕駛比較危險那請問運安會有這樣的一個研究報告嗎還沒有會在這個報告裡面會提出相關的見解如果沒有的話那加農部是要不要改回來這個我請我請各位組長他現在這個案子好來來總理長 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4553.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4575.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
在三峽案我們有調查這個高齡相關的議題包含說認知功能測試跟體格檢查那確實高齡的問題這邊我們在這個報告裡面是沒有去詳細的探究這個所謂年齡的這個問題因為就像委員剛剛說的這邊年齡的話事實上各個年齡層都會發生事故 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4575.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4602.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
那不過就高齡來講的話確實他真的老年人就是老化了嘛就是身體老化所以他的體格跟認知功能這邊確實會有一些影響所以我們就就這些議題來做相關的分析跟這個據提出改善建議如果你認為這個案子不是連齡的那為什麼要去研究連齡所造成的你剛剛給我的答案很奇怪 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4603.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4632.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
你說車禍發生跟年齡不一定有應該是不一定啦是沒有直接關係啦少數個案啦因為每個個案都會有啊也有十七八歲的更危險啦沒有駕照的啊是不是可是你給我們的報告裡面你就已經把三峽的車禍定義為重點就是高齡駕駛換照問題要用藥管理沒關係啦我就期待你的調查啦只是齁你們運安會啊其實是很重要的啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4633.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4655.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
不是一個冷牙門啦你要把自己給做熱起來嘛你們一個報告是最具權威性的甚至應該可以影響或者指導行政部門作為政策的一個調整嘛那你剛提到的一個資料庫我們來看一下喔運安會的資料庫螢幕我給你看喔來運安會都用一個PDF的檔啊來像這樣子啦那一般這個是Excel檔啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4661.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4671.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
那一般的學界啦企業或者個人那如果要參考一些所謂的交通運具或者是各種運輸 用安會曾經調查過的提供的建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4673.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4692.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
這根本你看不出一個系統性的資料的歸納我要點進去比如說事故發生的地點事故發生的原因在整個事故當中的一些細節你要自己去讀報告你要自己去歸納 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4694.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4720.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
那你看國外的相關運安會的網站你看美國它就是很清楚地列出來發生的時間、地點、類型、分類、標準涉及的比如說如果航空的話叫航空器、傷亡人數、天氣狀況起落時候、機場的資訊等等它在那個檔案你一目了然你不必去讀它的報告它都把重點先幫你抓出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4721.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4747.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
那再看台灣的 我再給你看一下 主委你看 台灣就是這樣我覺得我把報告丟給你 你自己去讀啦所以我認為 可能很多的就是說醫安會以外的單位 學界也好 民間單位也好或者是個人也好 他可能需要參佐 或者是有做相關的研究 或者是需要了解那是不是我們的資料提供可以更友善一點這是我的一個想法和建議 好不好 因為我時間的關係啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4748.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4776.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
我們私下可以跟你聯絡好不好你不能用這樣子用這樣子啦你要了解的自己看自己讀自己去去去檢資料自己去做分析好不好我們讓我們資料的搜索更有效率一樣有需要這些資料的人能夠更方便更友善的提供給大家好不好好謝謝好謝謝委員謝謝好謝謝林主席找委的發言也感謝林主委我們接下來請魯明哲委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4788.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4792.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
好 謝謝主席 有請雲安會林主委好 我們請林主委好 委員好好 林主委好再請教一下 這個因為陽梅休息站自從它設立這個從117年12月25號啟用到現在為止這個我知道你們也在努力的去做一個這個雲安會的一個相關的一些調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4817.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4833.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
那現在發生的在單一的交流道附近的一個這個紮道上面就發生了17件的一個算是已經蠻大型的一個車禍死亡人數5人受傷人數28人這是高空局給我們的一個最近的統計 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4835.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4861.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
那從114年去年1月25號因為發生了四死四傷的重大車禍你們也因為這樣的啟動了運安會的一個調查但我們發覺因為調查一年三個月四個月了最終的一個結論還沒出來但這車禍持續在發生又持續發生那這個的部分到底還要多久 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4862.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4880.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
你們在1月25號針對陽梅休息站這個最終的判斷報告會出來說明一下包委員這個月底以前這個報告就會出來了這個月底嗎對好那現在有一個發生了幾個情況就是你們第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4882.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4909.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
在整個事情當時發了一個非常特別的叫運輸安全通告當你發運輸安全通告就代表說這件事情我雖然最終報告我一定行政的流程有很多合意制要一堆人去判斷那有很多的一個流程需要時間但是很多事情太緊急了必須即刻要有一些作為所以你們發了這樣的一個安全通報但是我們特別 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4910.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4932.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
覺得現在都是政府機關啦我們覺得現在尤其很多的民眾尤其在這個的事情的受害的一些的民眾這個對你的期待是蠻深的因為這個事件1月25號中大車禍發生之後我們特別全民關注我們也請教了當時高工局 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
4932.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
4948.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
高工局他的回答到我們4月17號前兩天問他你的答案是不是跟我們去年問你的一樣他說一模一樣他答案是什麼呢到底為什麼會發生1月25號四死四傷的一個車禍呢他認為是這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
4951.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
4967.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
行車輔助系統不當以及要駕駛比較分心的問題他到現在還是這樣的說因為我們問他說第一個當然人為因素是一種可能性吧我駕駛的個人因素第二個呢是硬體或是車輛 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
4968.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
4982.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
車輛有一些機械或者其他的因素的故障非人為因素第三個也是非人為因素就是道路我們道路是不是安全在設施 標線 各個措施上不當這三個因素那高工局道 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
4984.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5004.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
前幾天的一個認知還是跟他沒有關係跟道路設計無關就是駕駛的一個因素就是車輛它的自動行車輔助的一個問題那現在你們就你們了解 主委你贊不贊成高峰局他這樣的一個說法就你們現階段調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5006.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5033.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
我們現階段的調查的初步的值得看法是這樣子啦這個每一個預示事故都不是一個單一的噪音所造成的啦絕對不是單一啦那當然這個案子剛委員有提到我們有花調查期間安全動畫裡面有告訴他說你有短曲線 左曲線 右曲線的問題我們也告訴他你的道路線型跟竣工圖有不一致的地方等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5034.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5048.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
那他就去優化了所以這個調查報告出來之後不會是單一的遭遇事件他也是在等我們因為他是主管機關當然他也講他目前是OK但是以我們的調查報告為主 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5050.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5072.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
好那我現在有個期待我們調查報告我們看你們過去調查報告你們要這個很具體的不要太抽象一定很具體的每一條是就是不是就不是誰出了什麼問題當然這麼多一個車禍17件在這樣的一個這麼集中我覺得有一些奇怪的問題17件車禍17個不同的駕駛可能也有 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5076.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5103.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
好幾種不同的車輛那同樣發生在這個地方我覺得真的確實有一個是這個紮道道路設計確實一個非常可能一個變成一個主要的一個因素所以我們希望你在最後報告針對如果即使是政府大家也不要說鄉委員他在政府的時候把它優化美化然後弄到看不出來說得不清不楚畢竟你這個運安會的一個報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5105.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5129.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
看起來是針對於去年1月25號他單一一件車禍但是如果答案是屬於高工局有國家的一個因素的時候那會非常可能適用到其他的一個車禍除了其他車禍比如有酒駕或者明顯的個人因素之外那應該那是沒辦法所以我們看到你的進度 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5130.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5154.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
到了運輸安全通告已經發了那高工具也說他們有做了一些微調了做一些微調了那你們調查報告這個月底一定會出來嗎一定會出來我們希望是有非常非常具體的那為什麼呢你要具體的報告啦因為這是當時你們發這個安全通告的時候我們看到你們這邊有特別選說 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5157.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5174.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
發現事故路段道路工程相關的現況有部分喔與法規建議值跟原設計規範不一致這個你們寫的是蠻具體的喔第二陽媚休息站扎到的這個分隔道 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5175.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5190.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
鼻端距離過短 曲線不足 道路設計的問題那當然你這邊也有一些說可能駕駛員是不是沒有安全帶他不是單因素 可能也有一些屬他個人的因素 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5191.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5205.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
那我想請教一下因為你們的規定是這樣啦因為緊急你們發了這個安全通告但當然安全通告最終是要列入最終報告的這個幾個項目有沒有變會不會最終報告會不會不見了不會 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5208.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5225.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
所以你們的想法還是這樣嗎還是在如果不見的話那就糗了那個安全公告 警戒安全公告都這麼嚴重的事情你們發了之後如果你們不見就等於說抱歉我搞錯了但是你同樣一天那個報告發完之後就像我剛剛說的 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5226.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5238.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
高雄局當時的說法是跟你完全不一樣他說設計皆符合規範其實我也不太清楚你們兩個按照道理看的是應該是同一個道路設計的一個標準一個規範為什麼他覺得他都 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5242.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5267.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
完全OK你們覺得很明顯部分與法規建議時就不同那這個差別在這個這個月底的報告整個出來應該可以兩個不同意見就只有一種看法吧主委應該不會有不同意見就以運安會的報告為主啊對啊因為他有說明嘛他事業時要給你們說明是不是還是不承認啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5270.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5293.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
還有最後掙扎嗎沒有這個可能好我希望你們要堅持這個專業那剛剛已經講過了因為從你們去年9月2號做的事實調查你緊急發的運輸安全報告上面都有講這是針對於高工局不管是標線標誌交通的設施有缺失的這個問題我們希望他絕對不能不見 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5296.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5318.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
可是如果他持續在你們最終報告出來的時候那會很明顯就發生一件事國賠 你的國家賠償因為事實上國賠法第六條明顯規定那不管在公共設施它的設置管理如果存在欠缺的時候造成人民不管是他的生命財產損害 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5320.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5349.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
那必須要去國培那這個事情你有分隔到彼端設計的可能的一個問題這是你們的目前的判斷跟碰撞防護段設施它是不是妥當跟道路線型的整個問題那這個部分我想在整個調查過程中你有沒有跟交通部或者高空局明顯你已經寫出來了嘛他們都沒有跟你去這個他們有沒有心理準備好要國培這件事情啊這個我們並不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5350.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5372.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
你不知道我不知道因為這個國賠是另外有一個程序好那如果你這三個對交通標証標誌在我們陽梅休息站如果確定在月底報告出來符不符合國家賠償法第六條公共設施跟管理存在欠缺有沒有可能符合 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5374.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5400.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
幫忙判斷一下因為都是同樣條法律啊我們運安會的調查不是以處分啦或者是以追究責任為目的所以我們尊重國家賠償法所律令的裁決機關的判斷你會不會產生壓力啊因為造成其他國家機關可能面臨17件最多17件的一個國賠問題你本身會不會有壓力會不會因壓力去改你的報告啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5400.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5423.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
不會啊 一點都不會啊完全不會嗎完全不會啊好 那我想這樣子就等待你這個月底的針對於陽梅休息站附近是不是有政府或者高工局他的一個標線標誌設施有欠缺的問題我希望這個我們能夠盡快知道這些受害者他也等待你的消息謝謝好 謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5428.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5432.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
好謝謝盧明哲委員的發言我們接下來請陳樹越委員發言謝謝主席請主席邀請林主委我們請林主委委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5454.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5482.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
主委早安 本席首先來關心就是在今年3月9號在南投山陵溪發生的一起這個遊園車翻覆的這個意外那當天就是這個園區內的電動接駁車載著八名的遊客那在行駛途中就是撞擊三臂然後造成了翻覆結果導致了就是這個乘客一人死亡七人受傷這樣子的一個意外的悲劇 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5483.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5503.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
那這樣這一件案子我們目前運安會已經正式立案調查了嘛對不對是那我們知道就是說從這個事故啊這個事件我們也發現到就是說這個遊園車長期就是存在著在制度上就管理制度上的一些漏洞那因為我們知道這些私人的園區內載客的遊園車監理的強度就是比不上 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5508.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5517.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
公路的客運因為公路局管不到這是在私人的遊園區內遊園車也不需要申請牌照觀光業務的主管機關觀光署也缺乏車輛安檢的專業 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5528.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5549.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
所以目前這個油源車基本上就是要由業者的自主管理然後再由地方或者中央單位的一個督導所以整個建立的強度非常的薄弱所以請教主委您認為這個油源車就您的看法是不是就是確實存在著很大的漏洞跟管理上的瑕疵 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5551.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5572.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
公委報告這個山林溪的這個事件交通部觀光署他是這個園區的主管機關那他並沒有對園區或者是園區的道路訂定相關的管理規則那園區的業者就是山林溪的這個遊樂事業管理有限公司他是向 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5574.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5594.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
農業部林保署租這個土地他負責維護跟園區道路的管理那現在這個園區他有他有他跟同體車有6輛有6輛車子他並沒有領有公路局所有核發的這個牌照所以現在觀光署啊交通部觀光署已經指示園區 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5595.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5615.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
的業者停止所有的這個園區的運作那這個案子的調查重點有涉及到駕駛員的操作車輛的監理還有園區道路的設計當然又有成員的一些生還的因素還有遊聯車的管理知識等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5617.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5629.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
所以我們這一個意外事故目前就是主管機關已經有做出就是一個處置了那我們這個調查報告預計還要多久可以出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5631.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5651.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
調查報告會在明年的九月會最終會出來那今年的九月會發佈事實資料報告 今年九月會事實資料報告出來那就是說照主委的回覆就是說這一個有關遊園車的一個管理目前三菱溪市主管機關觀光署要求他停止這個遊園車的 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5653.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5681.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
一個行駛嘛是那如果說其他的園區呢怎麼處理就是相關的其他的就是遊樂區或者森林遊樂區同樣有這樣子的遊園車的地方我們要怎樣去處理其他園區目前我們還沒有一些資料是我知道那因為這是一樣的一個管理的一個問題嘛當然3011是因為有目前就是有這樣子的一個事故發生所以主管機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5682.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5694.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
要求他停止那其他的遊園區目前當然狀況就是可能應該也是照常營運可是在管理的制度上我們應該也是一致的所以這部分我們會怎麼去建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5696.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5723.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
如果這個307事件這個案子出來之後的改善建議我們會系統性的跟交通部公安署說所有允許你管轄我們一併請他去檢討請他去改善這樣是好因為這個遊園區就是遊園車的行駛也是關係到遊客的一個安全那尤其現在就是假日這個民眾出遊的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5724.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5753.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
比例也蠻高的嘛所以這個真的是影響到民眾的安全所以就是說對於主管機關的一個建議的改善不曉得主委是否會就是說在這個完整的調查報告出來之前就有一個其中的安全通告要求觀光署這對所有管轄的觀光地區的遊行車有一樣的一個管理的方向這個我請我們公路調查組來研究看看是 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5758.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5776.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
我們基本上調查要提出期中運輸安全通告是視我們收集的市資料來做一個判斷那我們現在這個案子正在收集市資料當中當我們收到這個市資料如果有相關的這些安全議題的話我們會及時的提出這個期中運輸安全通告 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5777.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5802.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
因為我們知道運安會主要就是說針對這個意外事故然後調查這個事故的原因那調查事故原因出來之後當然就是給予主管機關來或者經營的單位這個改善的一個建議事項我們的目的就是要避免這樣子的意外狀況一再的發生所以我們再來看一下就是類似的狀況就是有關這個台塘的五分車的這個出軌事故 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5804.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5816.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
在最近幾年就是有陸續發生了幾件的這個台糖的觀光五分車的出軌的事件在109年6月28號新營的糖廠五分車出軌事件那這無人傷亡了那在111年7月30號蒜頭糖廠的觀光五分車出軌 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5825.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5853.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
那這兩個事件那在我們運安會的調查報告出現的這個原因其實是有一樣的原因就是我們看到我們當時就是針對這兩件事故的出軌事故其中有兩個是完全一樣的就是台糖未能確實執行營運路線的日檢月檢還有連檢的作業然後第二個就是台糖對五分車營運管理欠缺負責 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5854.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5882.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
鐵路行車安全政策規章預算行車事故調查等業務的組織所以我的意思是說我們在109年的這個事故發生的時候如果我們可以有提早一個其中安全通告針對類似一樣營運狀況的有提出事先的一個建議事項那是不是可以避免之後的這樣子的事件在發生因為在111年發生了事故結果事故原因是一樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5883.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5898.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
主委請您針對這個事件您的看法我請鐵道調查組的組長不好意思老師委員好 跟委員報告這兩件台塘的列車的事故我們首先第一件在調查的時候其實是單純發現它的列車的出軌情形 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5901.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5923.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
第二天調查的時候我們其實也才進一步去了解到說台塘過去在組織的架構上並沒有一個專責的單位負責五分車的維修跟保養還有人員訓練的部分所以在第二個案件之後我們就針對於組織分工的部分組織架構的部分做一個分析也提出改善建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5924.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
5936.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
所以自從這個案件第二件案件就是我們公佈提出這改善建議之後那後續我們也持續關注那到目前為止台堂到目前為止沒有再有其他的一些這個事故或事件發生以上報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
5937.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
5962.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
是就是說我們希望從這個事故然後釐清原因當然就是建議改善我們就是避免憾事一再發生所以我們也希望就是說未來我們運安會針對一些事故發生的時候是不是能夠有更積極的一個回應跟做法我們的目的就是希望能夠保障民眾行車的一個安全避免這樣子的憾事再發生好謝謝好謝謝委員謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
5966.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
5986.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
好謝謝我們陳素月委員的發言接下來請何欣淳委員發言好謝謝趙偉我們是不是請沒關係你喝口水慢慢喝我們主委林主委好謝謝請林主委好謝謝趙偉 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
5989.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6007.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
主委好主委我長期來一直在關心行動電源起火事故的一個因應那之前呢也提醒過質詢過那昨天昨天日本大阪的地鐵發生行動電源起火有3萬人受影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6008.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6025.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
如果按照過去主委給我的回應說行動電源起火只是單一個別事件所以不是重大事件那過去你都跟我講說你們不用立案調查但如果昨天看到新聞日本大阪的地鐵 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6026.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6047.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
玉塘金縣他的乘客行動電源起火事故導致全線暫停行駛全面停駛約半個小時造成合計21班列車延誤最長延誤30分鐘影響約3萬人那請問一下如果這件事發生在台灣定安會要不要立案調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6048.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6071.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
是不是屬於重大的運輸事故如果在台灣的話是社會重大關注這個要調查是嘛你過去都跟我講說行動電源起火都是單一個別事件影響不大所以呢不用立案調查我跟你講昨天日本發生了這一件事情如果在台灣知識體大是不是來下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6073.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6088.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
所以我長期在關心行動電源起火的事件對你來講看起來像小事可是對人民的生命財產安全以及對整個交通運具的環境空間甚至行車的行駛的安全等等我想這個是影響很大的 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6092.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6115.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
那按照過去我質詢你 這個有關你們的組織法第二條本來就你們執掌涵蓋運輸事故的趨勢分析跟運輸安全的專案研究那我記得我上一次要求你的時候 那你只有跟我說好這一個月內立案來進行所謂的趨勢分析我為什麼要長期這樣子呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6116.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6136.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
關注這個事件因為你們本來依法依權者第一個要長期的匯集資料第二個有了這些資料要提供分析跟建議第三個國際資訊的接軌包括我剛剛提到的日本大阪發射事件你知道嗎 主委這個國際事件你有掌握嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6137.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6155.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
這個我們有另外一個運安組他會去收集相關的資料你不能說有另外一個運安組會說明那我就要問說到底有沒有掌握嘛來 接下來一頁我認為有作為才有進步的機會嘛對不對剛剛主委的回答讓我知道你就是不知道有日本大阪的這件事嘛那 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6156.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6177.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
我一直關注就是希望你們要有所作為那才有進步的空間跟機會那我也很感謝過去我的諮詢完之後包括2025 6月10號跟12月05號你們確實有兩度發函給交通部的各所屬的國籍、航空、台鐵、高鐵等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6178.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6198.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
在發函要求他們對行動電源的安全管理機制的相關資訊不過在你們兩次的公文裡面只有提到民航機跟高鐵事故其他的沒有第二個 那你們也是單純的發文來提醒大家要注意安全性我覺得還不夠還不夠 遠遠還不夠 下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6203.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6226.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
因為過去這一年我們看到不管是高鐵、民航局、台鐵、交通部我們都只要在宣導行動電源的一個要求說你要檢驗合格的行動電源等於說你的行動電源一定要隨身不能放在行李第三在使用交通運具的時候盡量不使用行動電源 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6228.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6251.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
大家都在宣導這件事而已但是身為運安會我認為長期該關注的是這個交通事故的風險的趨勢評估你並沒有統整各個事故的一個通報程序而且你也沒有建立資料庫不管是國內發生的或是國外發生的你們通通沒有彙整有嗎 諸位有嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6253.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6259.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
我們有彙整 然後因為這樣子交通部就頒布一個相關的注意事項嗎你們沒有彙整 我跟你們要過資料你們沒有彙整你們就只有剛剛我提到的那兩紙公文公文就提醒大家要有交通的什麼安全 指引或者是行動電源的一個這個風險管理的指引等等你們並沒有彙整成一個資料庫 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6280.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6306.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
而這個資料庫我為什麼那麼強調國內外發生了這麼多件的一個行動電源在交通運具上發生的起火事故等等這些資料庫都必須變成是我們的database如何去降低風險風險評估很重要因為這個風險評估就是要提醒各個交通相關單位跟各個中央地方政府針對交通運具裡面的 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6310.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6324.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
風險降低機制這個是很重要因為關係到人民的生命財產安全關係到整個交通的順暢跟交通的整體的安全問題喔下一頁有沒有可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6326.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6349.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
我們建置行動電源事故的一個資料庫所謂的志願報告是你們運安會裡面的一個機制可不可行 我建議要評估因為有大數據就能分析在你們的運輸安全志願報告系統裡面針對的運輸從業人員 乘客都可以提出志願報告那這個系統也有接收什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6350.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6367.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
運輸事業單位跟監理單位所獲取具分享價值的志願報告也就是說在這個志願報告的系統裡面只要願意主動來提出都是成為運安會針對行動電源事故的資料庫的來源 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6368.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6389.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
而且能夠累積一定的數據來供你們做分析這個很重要那我現在看到目前為止你們有非安鐵道水路公路的安全資源報告裡面呢針對有行動電源來事故來資源報告的非安有兩件鐵道一件水路跟公路是零件 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6390.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6397.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
其實這個是有問題的我還是建議你們應該主動的積極的建置下一頁為什麼有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6399.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6421.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
我們光是從媒體的報導裡面台鐵接二連三都發生了行動電源爆裂自然光是我蒐集媒體報導的就有三件很奇怪喔 這三件啊 結果在上一頁的自願通報裡面鐵道只有自願通報一件 只有一件那這個問題到底在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6423.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6447.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
這個問題到底在哪裡我是提醒運安會啦不要小看這個行動電源起火的事件啦它如果我們沒有好好的來因應沒有好好來做風險評估甚至把它模組化能夠提供給各個交通單位來做因應跟降低風險的話它一直都層出不窮啦下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6449.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6466.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
去年6月經濟部標檢局召回8.8萬顆的行動電源為什麼他公布了型號某些公司某些工廠某些型號說這個行動電源是有風險的會爆炸會自燃其實標檢局的這個舉動 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6470.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6493.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
運安會就可以當作參考 為什麼因為他就是在降低系統性的風險嘛他在告訴國人你看標檢局主動召回8.8萬顆的行動電源告訴國人 這個是有風險的這個是有可能會爆炸自然的會產生事故 會影響人民的生命財產安全會影響交通安全運輸安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6497.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6513.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
這跟運安會沒有關係嗎 我認為有關係 下一頁我為什麼要這樣子講行動電源的供應安全其實就是什麼運安會要主動跨部會整合你們可以做風險評估 降低風險的整合者 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6514.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6540.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
我剛剛提的是經濟部他針對產品的安全他有標檢跟標準的問題檢驗跟標準的問題他有這個責任交通部運輸管理他是對於剛剛講的海陸空他的攜帶規範行動電源的攜帶規範跟這個安全的問題數位發展部他可以管的是什麼數位平台因為現在國人很多的行動電源是來自於數位平台採購的所以有電商監管的問題消保會 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6543.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6546.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
它保護了什麼 我們消費者權益這個資訊揭露的問題運安會運輸事故調查你們的任務叫做風險分析跟建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6555.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6575.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
這些其實都是運安會作為一個獨立機關我強調你作為一個獨立機關應該來做這樣子的一個跨部會的整合行動電源的公共運輸的安全我們如何降低風險甚至的能夠讓風險為零這個才是我們積極主動的運安會的責任跟目標嘛是不是我們不是只有事後的調查而已啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6586.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6611.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
最後時間到了 我提供你五大建議建立行動電源運輸事故的資料庫第二個 個案調查要提升為系統性的風險分析第三個 要定期的發布安全改善建議報告第四個 建立跨部會風險通報跟協調平台第四個 必要的時候發布安全警示這個是我對運安會的期許啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6612.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6634.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
主動積極行動電源的起火事故不是單一跟個別的事故行動電源在交通運具上的起火事故現在看起來他有可能會是系統性的風險所以運安會該不該對於這些來做一個讓國人安心的一件事 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6635.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6656.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
五大建議我跟委員簡單回應一下第一項的部分我們會又再跟委員請教看怎麼樣來處理第二個是如果說個案比較多我們會主動進入系統性的分析是沒有錯的現在個案越來越多啦對那第三個建議像定期發布安全改善建議這個是對的我們本來就有這個機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6657.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6678.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
是啊那第四個這個建立跨部風險通報的協調平台我們也來研究看看怎麼處理那第五個這個定期跨部安全是確實我們可以來做得到是嘛所以你不要再跟我講說行動電源在交通運氣上的起火事件是單一是個別的我一直不只一次的來質詢來提醒你 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6680.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6694.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
非常重要的一件事好不好希望運營會能夠積極主動扮演好能夠降低風險能夠讓整個交通環境運具的一個安全這個就是保障國人的生命財產安全好不好好謝謝謝謝好謝謝何俊成委員的發言那我們待會在陳雪生委員發言後休息10分鐘那麼現在請陳青龍委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6717.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6721.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
主席 我們仍然會 您主委好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6726.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6746.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
林主委好我們在我們運燃會的業務報告我們看到我們有一個建議就是希望我們能夠建立一個道路安全審核的機制叫做RSA那從你的報告當中你從這個調查我們台21線的採查車貨車 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6752.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6781.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
的一個事故 等等發現我們還沒有建立道路安全的審核機制那致使道路工程在規劃 設計施工 管理 養護的過程當中欠缺的考量交通安全的因素所以延伸了潛在的交通安全這是你報告所講的那從你報告這當中我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6782.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6810.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
就這個機會請教我們主委以我們的專業我現在來請教我們淡江大橋應該下個月下個月可能要通車但是從這幾天的訊息包括我們交通部長也去現場實地的考察發覺到這個機車道機車道的設計它是符合一公路局的一個答案 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6812.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6830.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
它是符合公路設計規範但是實際上我們的民眾包括交通部長實際去看的時候都覺得有這樣的安全的屹立那在這樣的一個淡江大橋這樣的案例當中依我們運安會 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6832.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6849.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
你的見解如何 主任你們的見解如何我們的一個道路設計規範的符合跟實際的安全能不能畫上梗號那以丹江大橋為例 你們的建議為 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6851.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6872.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
請你們以你們的專業來建議不要事後做調查事後去做有事故的調查我們目前已經上橋的民眾包括我們交通部長都覺得這個機車道橋面過窄以後整個通車之後應該安全的一例大家已經都 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6873.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6889.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
一起看到了那是不是我們雲南會不要做事後的調查我們是不是在這邊可以根據你們報告的建議做一些安全上給交通部給公務局做一些建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6894.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6905.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
請問我們可以去了解可以去了解有關RSA就是所謂道路安全檢查制度這個案子交通部在請議員所在113年到114年他有辦理一個研究計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
6912.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
6933.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
主委我是想透過你們的專業當然我知道運安會都是在做事後的調查那我現在想就有這一次執行的機會淡江大橋我們恐怕成為我們機車族就一個安全很大的屹立那運安會 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
6934.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
6944.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
你真的只要在未來真的有事故發生才要去調查目前我想以你們的專業能不能給公務局做一些建議藉由這樣的執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
6951.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
6966.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
你也不願意不是不是我們會去了解但是因為我們是調查機構我知道一定要有事故發生才有裁判求演的關係我們會避免變成一個太上的監理機關但是我們會去了解我了解你們也有關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
6968.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
6986.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
但是我覺得既然公路局對外宣稱要找外部的專家學者來做一些探討那外部專家學者我們亦然會 我們也是專業啊 必要也可以提出我們的專業的一點建議嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
6989.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7007.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
對不對這是我們期待我們希望淡江大橋開通後是一個安全的道路安全的橋樑機車族行駛在淡江大橋上也是安全的啊對不對所以能夠提供建議公路局也提出這樣的一個願意邀請 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7009.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7019.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
這樣的專家學者外部的意見我想我們依然會適時的提供我們的專業建議是必要的這一點主委你認同嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7020.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7046.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
我們如果去了解之後認為有一些好的建議我們當然會不要等到那個事故發生後才調查啦好不好我們希望有全面意見可以提供給公路局好那下一頁我在這邊啊我們在南投307的油原車這個墜谷事故的調查的進度目前怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7048.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7055.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
主委有調查嗎有有有調查那調查到目前的進度怎麼樣我們今年的協會發布事實資料報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
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調查報告調查報告今年九月會有40次調查報告要到今年九月明年的九月會發布最終的調查報告明年九月明年九月現在今年的三月發生一個事故要到明年九月才能會有一個調查報告那我們運安會真的這樣的一個 |
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事件的一個調查的時間我希望我們要檢討一下那其實除了307這種事故調查其實我們去年在宜蘭的綠色博覽會也有遊園車的事故那這個過程當中就我了解因為我們運安會針對重大運輸事故的調查範圍其實都沒有包括了 |
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沒有包括但是我肯定雲南會願意針對我們山林溪的這個事件那我請教宜蘭綠博發生的電動遊樂園車這個事件我們有調查嗎 |
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我們有調查嗎這個案件就沒調查對不對因為沒有受到社會矚目嘛一樣一死一傷就沒有進行調查所以我在這邊本席要建議我們是不是來檢討重大運輸事故範圍的一個調查我們依然會依照我們運輸事故調查法 |
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針對我們這個第四點的第三款是不是能夠來做一些重新的定義我們現在看到的包括熱氣球包括機品的接駁車包括我們的觀光管閥等等這些都不在 照理說都不在我們的一個重大運輸事故的調查範圍之內但是它卻牽涉到 |
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我們國人的一個安全這樣的一個過程那是不是我們來修訂讓這個定義放寬能夠讓運安會能夠來透過事故的一個調查給相關主管單位能夠來做一個安全的一個改進主委你認為呢 |
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剛剛委員提到如果是熱氣球是我們調查的範圍沒有錯熱氣球已經調查的範圍那其他的如果有一些關關管吧我們就那個在那個台南啊這個很多啊對不對如果類似的我們會在我們年度開研討會的時候我們會收集資料會請相關主管機關來研究看怎麼樣是能夠大家一起協助對我們覺得不要有這樣暈暗的漏洞啦 |
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就像我剛剛舉的一個例子嘛307的社會主謀案件你主動調查依然力薄的 一起一場沒有形成一個疑問的重大案件你就不調查我希望在法規上不要針對我們國人的安全有漏洞這樣好不好 |
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最後我在這邊還是建議因為你的調查報告裡面針對針對我們的電動小客車大都會電動公車這樣的一個自然的一個部分我想時間的關係我也請我們運安會應該要掌握未來我們的電動車不管是使用的量 |
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還有我們的電動公車等等這個部分未來就是運輸安全一個重要的一個考量的一個重點所以我在這邊也要請運安會為以籌謀我們要事先做過我們事故的調查然後建立起一個建議的機制這樣好不好 |
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我們會盡量蒐集出來就跟著委員建議我們會在研討會的案例裡面去把它橫掛進來好 謝謝主委 謝謝謝謝委員 謝謝好 我們謝謝陳清榮委員的質詢那接下來請陳雪生委員發言 |
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好 謝謝召委 是不是請林主委好 我請林主委林主委早上聽陳興隆主委員講說淡江大橋會是個斷魂橋是什麼意思啊我第一次聽到有那麼恐怖嗎大概我想不是空穴來風吧 |
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一位委員講這個是將來成為斷魂橋什麼意思啊這個橋還沒完工是不是機車道的問題你們知道一點嗎報告委員最近這幾天的話因為丹江大小快要開通所以是機車道的問題確實是機車道有沒有什麼問題 |
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目前大家民眾比較關心的是說覺得說是不是這個寬度,機車道的寬度是不是不夠的寬度太小寬度太小是不是,太窄是不是這個意思以目前來講的話,現在設計的機車道寬度是符合法規要求因為他早上諮詢這個我為什麼關心,我們馬祖大橋咧所以我們馬祖大橋也準備要做所以有什麼風吹草動我非常關心 |
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這個你們注意一下好不好另外就是從你們的夜報裡面你看每一次大概又是鐵路最多啦你鐵路代辦的案件就31件,代調查的公路就21件這鐵路怎麼回事咧你們不是事故發生以後然後幹什麼要做調查吧調查完了以後就要檢討嘛檢討完了以後你們要跟這些 |
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比如像鐵路公司啊,事故發生的這些公司你們會跟他面對面嗎?座談檢討?還是一個書面資料給他?主委你回答我 |
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所有的不一定鐵路啦所有的航空沒有 我現在現在鐵路因為早上你看那麼多時間大部分都在檢討鐵路啊所有的鐵道事故調查完之後就會有一個改善建議給他們改善建議說他們會內部就會為了改善建議就分享執行計畫他們會提報嘛那提報之後他就會有一個期程他會還找我們去開會他們跟他講說這幾個的重點在哪裡 |
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有一個協調會看完會就結束了沒有沒有然後再發生發生你們再調查是不是這樣行政院也是列管行政院列管對行政院那為什麼一而再再而三一直發生事故咧調查調查是他們有問題還是你們有問題還是你們的報告有問題還是你提供給他的資料他根本來看了不看然後把你存查是什麼事情 |
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那邊應該有看啦有看啦吊車事故大部分事故為啦有看有看為什麼一再發生幹什麼是不是要你們單位幹什麼報告委員報告委員那個跟委員報告吊車原本就是一個比較高風險的一個一個一個運轉的一個方式那他要這個非常注重人員的之間的配合那所以吊車場裡面很多報廢的車子嘛你車上你要給他找個地方給他堆放啊 |
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你放在裡面大家扯爛蛋在那邊亂扯一通哪一部是好的哪一部是壞的七堵紀錄段3月30號發生的事故我們有立案調查那這個案件我們也會朝這個方面去收集資料還會再發生嗎我請問我們當然提出改善建議之後你改善之後還要發生嗎那你提出來幹什麼是不是你提出來幹什麼 |
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你就不要提出了嘛 提出幹什麼咧台鐵當你放屁啊你企圖這個什麼事嘛 你講嘛 這吊牌場什麼事嘛充狀出軌 幾次啊可以這樣一直一而再再而三的發生嗎不對吧你們就檢討一下好不好你再發生我下次就針對你們來喔你們這單位要不要啊 主委 |
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你們加強一下好不好我們來加強我們來加強謝謝委員的指導你們不是這樣講完就算講完就算這不好吧大家都很像你把這個繳卷了是不是交差了沒事了剩下台鐵的事台鐵也有責任啊他們董事長都幹得好好的然後再來 |
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貝里斯級的一個貨輪在我們北干外海擱淺擱淺帶死亡的一個人,溺水窒息死亡的一個人我們海巡也去救他我們馬祖列島周遭礁石非常的多你們有沒有對這些外籍的輪船、船公司或是什麼航港局你們告訴他做一個通報 |
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你行駛在這邊的海域,你們要注意,應注意而要注意你們這一方面加強一下好不好你們要做規劃,因為他貨船沉了以後,會對我們海洋造成污染所以我們的魚打拗上來會有柴油的味道當然不只這個魚的問題,我們周遭的這些環保這些 |
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也會影響到大陸那邊去我們不是說大陸不是我們的我們只管自己的這也不好嘛主委可以不可以我請水路調查組的組長來說明一下你說明一下好不好你知道這個案子嗎 |
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保委員這個案子運安會依法調查已經結案那對於船商還有航港局之間的合作會建立一個船舶的資料庫還有這個澎湖海域還有到麻竹海域涉及到海圖的製作航港局在這部分也都有配合在製作 以上好 還有一個很重要的空勤董隊NA108這個駕駛艙儀表板冒煙 |
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這個機型是救援馬祖的我們東營尤其東營跟北竿我們有跟四人公司有訂緊急醫療專機嘛對不對但是他要維修啊他一年有一個月的維修期那他的任務是空警總隊在接替這個任務啦這種機型直升機會冒煙耶這個冒煙發生什麼事你們知道嗎 |
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這個案子是其中有一條電線它去摩擦到有一個電的有條管子的接頭這是那個動靜壓管的接頭那這個磨久之後這個線就磨破了就短路了短路這條線就斷掉了但是它影響的只是一個 |
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7822 |
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一個局限的一個電壓電流表的指示所以他沒有影響到這個他的操作的安全那這架飛機他就非常的平安的就降落到回來到台中機場組長他他直升機跟固定翼不一樣不一樣他是按時速的時速時間到了他就要換要換零件這個是跟固定翼不一樣 |
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那他這個時間到了沒有啊有沒有換零件了這部分他們空前總隊的這種這樣的一個直升機他是委託給就是Airbus空8在台灣的維修廠在維修的所以呢這部分他們都按照規矩在做規矩是什麼 |
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維修完了以後你們有沒有去了解什麼情況是什麼東西造成什麼事故因為零件沒更換或是平常沒注意或是保養不夠而造成這樣的事故你們要去了解一下這個案子目前正在調查當中什麼還在調查114年了114年11月28號發生的事現在今年11月會結案你們要調查多久一年之內會發布調查報告 |
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現在四月五個多月耶五個多月還在調查對 是的哇他在冒煙耶冒煙調查五個月還在調查相關的積極的檢查他們已經在執行了我是不知道耶因為他是在訓練的時候在台中台中那個大甲基地那邊 |
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是訓練誒他如果到馬祖發生這樣的事情我當天我跟你講我第二天追到他們公司去我就要了解這什麼原因啊誰敢坐你這個直升機啊你還敢飛啊 |
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這個我們整個是參與式調查整個調查的過程空情總隊跟空中巴士他們都有加入到我們調查團隊他們都知道目前發生的狀況那你起碼初步應該了解一些是什麼事嘛發生什麼事嘛你怎麼可以讓他繼續飛啊你看現在很多的戰機客機一發生事情全世界全面停飛耶是不是你這個空情總隊飛機不只這麼一架耶所以我們才會做徹底檢查你這裡會冒煙 |
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很有可能其他的直升機型也會冒煙也有可能啊所以你們全部都要收回去整修啊應該是這樣你們要去了解我們也是徹底對整個AS365機隊做一個這樣的檢查沒有從你回答我你們認識的態度還不夠積極還不夠積極 |
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你以後像這種情況,你第一天冒煙你起碼一個禮拜或是三兩天之內你馬上要了解狀況如果情況緊急的話,你這個機隊所有的飛機全部都要停止全部要進場去檢查是不是你不然一次冒煙、兩次冒煙,每一架都在冒煙那還得了啊你不要搞得我們乘客提心吊膽你沒坐過這個直升機你不怕 |
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我們從馬祖坐過來看著底下的那個海浪啊不怕死人欸那個下去就沒有啦你知道嗎下去就要去找耶穌啦所以拜託你們做做好事好不好你碰到這種事情尤其空中的事情我對這個空中什麼冒煙啊什麼這個非常重視好不好拜託啦主委好不好謝謝 |
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好 謝謝我們陳立生委員發言謝謝主委備詢那我們現在先休息十分鐘 |
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謝謝觀賞 |
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響鐘 |
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1 2 3 |
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謝謝大家 |
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有没有人想起这个问题 |
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響鐘 |
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8441.954 |
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響鐘 |
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8445.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8453.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
響鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8476.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8497.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
響鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8531.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8555.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
響鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8558.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8561.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
響鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8612.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8615.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
響鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8640.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8659.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
好 我們現在繼續開會那我們接下來邀請李昆澤委員發言謝謝主席 請一下林主委好 我們請林主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8666.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8692.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
主委你好有關於運安會的成立是我在交通委員會一個很重要的推動的目標也終於在2019年的8月來正式掛牌成立那當初的不管是組織法或者是運輸的相關的這樣的一個運輸事故的調查法那我都有提案也參與了整個的這樣的一個討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8694.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8716.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
所以剛才提到山林溪的這樣一個遊園車的事故當然他有他的一個啟動的標準我想主委也清楚那在這樣一個啟動標準不管是要3人死亡或者是死傷10人以上或者是有重大的社會影響就必須啟動這樣的一個調查那當然 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8720.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8739.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
三菱系的遊園車它是屬於甲類的大客車甲類的大客車主委也清楚就是前輪的中心跟後輪的中心它的這樣的一個距離是4公尺以上它的重量也非常重大概17噸以上大概就是坊間的這樣的一個客運的公車 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8740.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8761.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
那所以在這樣的一個啟動調查標準就是由於它的園區的道路問題或是它車輛監理的問題或是它園區安全的這種交通的機制的問題它是一個整體的運輸安全的這樣的一個疑慮所以啟動相關的一個調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8762.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8782.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
那現在我們在整個調查的這樣一個狀況當然要有初期報告以及中期的這樣的一個事實的資料報告最後才會有明年9月的調查報告出來那4月8號已經有初步的報告出來初步的報告來 請諸位簡單說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8786.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8802.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
我們現在正在對車輛進行測試的檢視還有人員的訪談還有資料蒐集的相關作業中那初步報告有出來了嗎初步報告已經在4月8號發布了簡單的內容是什麼來說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8806.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8824.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
報告委員 基本上我們初步報告內容就是涵蓋一些很基本的資料包含運作的業者 車輛的基本資料 當時的天氣條件然後還有車輛損害的情形 人員受傷的情形大概是以上簡單的一些資料的收集 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8825.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8852.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
好 那我記得這次山林溪的油源車所發生的事故跟之前所發生的宜蘭 就是吳老坑 綠泊的這樣一個電動小火車的所造成的失事狀況 跟標準也不太一樣那其實都呈現出一個重要的問題就是說它在園區之內 它並不是一般的道路 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8853.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8876.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
所以他不用申請車牌 這樣的一個甲類大客車非常大的一個客車他並不是公路局來管轄第二 他的器材樣態 他是交通的載具但是他並不是要實施安全檢查的這樣的一個遊樂設施他也不是觀光署去管轄 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8878.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8904.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
那我們看到啊 填報的項目他也不是屬於考核填報的項目為填報他也不列入缺失他也不是啊 所展現出來就是說地方政府地方政府也沒有填報那所以目前的管理的這樣的一個模式啊大多都是業者自行管理這樣會有很大的安全運輸的疑慮來主委說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8910.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8934.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
確實是這樣子那我們現在對整個車輛的維護管理跟監理還有駕駛員操作資格認定道路設計等等那這些我們目前正在也正在一一來作為在檢查中這個問題其實我們看到在2月26號的時候公安署他有發文召集業者以及地方的政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8934.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8956.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
就是說在3月19日舉辦遊樂區遊樂園區遊園車的管理研究的一個審查會議那就在開會前的8天發生了這樣一個嚴重的事故那這樣一個管理缺失我們初步也還沒有改善建議嘛 對不對 來說明一下我請這個公務處處長 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8958.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8977.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
報告委員 這個案子我們3月發生之後 然後我們在3月有召開一個組織會議因為我們是參與市調查 邀請公路局 關公署這些單位來參與那在那個會議當中 我們已經有跟關公署這邊初步的來了解這個事故的樣態那關公署這邊也是蠻正面積極的來應對這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8980.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8996.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
好那現在只是針對發生事故的樣態來請公共署來進行相關的討論但是我們未來這種園區內的道路以及相關的車輛不管是設計養護或是管理規定上面 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8997.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
9019.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
都必須要引入公路局的一個專業的意見這不只是觀光署的問題而已公路局的意見也非常的重要那我們看到在目前是有明顯的這樣的一個制度性的漏洞那除了遊園車雲南會也必須建議交通部或者是交通部也必須要 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
9020.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
9034.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
整體的盤點相關的其他載具的一個管理的漏洞避免事件的一個再次的發生另外台鐵吊車場的事故台鐵吊車場的事故2026年 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
9039.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
9052.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
1月到3月已經發生了5件如果我們從2023年來看它是逐年的一個上升顯示目前軌道安全啊已經出現重大讓旅客疑慮的一個狀態那 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
9054.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
9078.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
調查的重點當然有吊車的路徑 設定人員的操作程序或者是吊車人員相關的引導以及通訊方式的相關作業的分工規範還有廠站的耗制維修管理等等那現在我們看到這種吊車事故頻繁發生的可能因素有沒有進一步的改善建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
9080.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
9088.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
這也不是現在才發生啊2023年就6件啊2024年8件啊2025年10件啊今年1月到3月已經5件了來 請簡單說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
9093.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
9116.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
包委 去年的1月是七堵的吊車事故那4月是花蓮的吊車事故那麼現在這個調查的主要的重點在他們人員的作業分工跟風險評估相關作業然後我們也提出落實的要落實SOP以及列車停止運轉的相關的一個建議那未來 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
9117.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9135.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
我們現在還在調查中有兩件我們未來會把它併在一起提出安全的分析必須要提出明確的安全改善的建議以及事故的一個真相的分析另外我們對軌道運輸記錄器它的完善比例其實非常的低其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9137.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9162.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
直接來說他並沒有在當時即使會影響運輸的安全但是他會間接的影響後續的這樣一個軌道運輸的安全那我們的這樣的軌道交通的記錄器其實他的問題就是說他普遍的記錄不足資料標準不一甚至有缺失的這樣一個狀況那機務裝置這樣的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9167.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9195.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
運輸的紀錄器他的這個裝置最重要的功能就是要提供平日軌道列車他的營運狀態的一個檢視或者是辨識潛在的一個風險那或者是由事故發生之後我們藉由這一些紀錄的資料來協助事故的調查分析造勢的原因以及還原事故的經過 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9197.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9210.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
但是我們必須要了解這樣的一個運輸的紀錄器要妥善的保存而且針對這樣的一個安全管理異常的監測或是維修檢討甚至是教育訓練事故的預防 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9215.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9241.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
他都有明顯的一個功用啊能夠改善提升運輸的安全那這個部分針對目前這種不足的狀況來我們應安會有什麼這樣具體的建議我們在太魯閣事故這個案子的調查中我們對鐵道局有提出要建立必要的參數譬如說抗撞毀的這個國內法規 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9243.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9247.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
這個不是國內的法規 我們必須要參考國際的標準而且要將列車啊 紀錄的這樣的一個參數以及抗撞毀的這樣一個殘存的一個能力也必須要納入相關的這樣的一個鐵路車輛技術標準的一個規範之中 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9272.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9296.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
主委這種行車運輸的軌道運輸的紀錄性是非常重要的在目前是明顯的不足那我們針對相關的營運的狀況運輸的安全造勢的原因在日後的處理方面都有出現很大的缺失這個主委必須要明顯的去督促相關的這樣的一個軌道的負責的單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9298.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9320.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
是現在鐵道局有根據我們的建議他有有把1067mm的軌距的鐵道車輛的技術規範他們有有在草擬一個草案那這個現在在複審程序好這個我也會來繼續督促這個軌道的安全相關的運輸的安全都是運安會在 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9322.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9339.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
不管是事故的調查或者是日後的這樣的一個建議裡面啊 預安會都要扮演很重要的角色是是 以上好 謝謝委員 謝謝好 謝謝李昆哲委員的質詢也謝謝我們林主委接下來請徐富奎委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9352.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9376.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
謝謝主席 有請我們林主委林主委委員好主委好 主委剛剛我們李崑澤委員提到一個我們台鐵花蓮事故這個案子因為我們台鐵罹難的一個員工是我們屏東的一個年輕人那他的父母親來到我的服務處 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9378.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9403.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
其實他們並不是要責怪我們台鐵的同仁他們只是期待說我們運安會跟相關台鐵在這個事件上面到底有沒有完整的調查事故發生的原因有沒有人為的疏失他們不希望他兒子的犧牲讓後面台鐵的事故繼續再發生他希望他兒子是最後一個受難的員工 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9406.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9429.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
就剛剛承榮剛剛主委講的主委我們不是只有一個調查報告的一個責任後續到底這些鐵道局也好或是鐵路公司也好到底有沒有針對這樣一個事故的發生原因把問題找出來找出解決的方案到底有沒有這樣的一個最重的機制主委您的看法我們有沒有落實這個部分請說一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9435.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9456.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
剛剛您提到的這個案件因為我們後續收到通報然後根據內容判斷他是屬於比較屬於職債事件所以他案子是由治安署立案調查所以這個部分我們就沒有處理當然我們後續也持續關注相關的這些事件是不是有類似的情形持續在發生那如果有的話我們也不會排除立案調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9456.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9470.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
我想還是要正視這樣的一個問題存在因為畢竟整個軌道運輸是關於那麼多的乘客的安全性我想不是只有員工的安全更多的乘客的安全我們必須要重視 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9472.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9497.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
那回到今天的主題主委我想我們現在台灣在發展這個電動的一個電動車的一個產業那我們也期待我們整個大眾運輸工具能夠更加的一個環保更加的節能減碳但是現在去年6月台北發生了大都會客運電動公車的一個火燒車事件當時主委回應說這是一個單一個案但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9498.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9512.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
調查報告到了已經快過了一年齁主委這個報告已經出來了嗎呃我們一月二十九號有發布事實資料報告那這個案子大概預計十月份會發最終的調查報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9514.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9539.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
因為還有一些程序要走主委我想是這樣子因為每次我們的業務報告的時候我相信每個委員都會提到你們這個調查報告的這個時間真的是拖有夠久的久尤其你看我們現在目前掌握到的狀況114年我們結案了27件平均完成的天數是432天 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9541.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9564.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
主委 你想這個對我們的行政機關也好 對我們的家屬也好 這個情何以堪這個我想每一次委員會都會被提出來難道我們沒有更積極的作為能夠改善這樣的一個 解案的一個速度嗎主委能不能有什麼新的方案應該是 我們之前也提過了嘛 怎麼樣分段來做一個改善的一個建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9565.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9593.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
一個階段一個階段來處理能夠讓我們的行政單位也有一個遵循的標準主委能不能再具體說明一下我們的調查案子都有有五個大階段對比較比較社會關注度比較大的我們會調動所有不同族的人把它加進去會縮短其他其他都是我們其實我們調查的程序都是跟國外都一樣都有一定的階段 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9594.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9614.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
所以五大階段的一個調查階段對啦 主委我們不是要叫你們草率結案啦齁當然我們也知道你們的人力的問題還有整個案件量的問題但是總是對我們行政機關來講既然發生了我們就是要趕快找到解決的方法趕快找到處理的方式這樣開始再做事情的台頭啊是是是對啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9615.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9634.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
不然發生之後你們只是一個paper出來結果行政機關也沒有遵循事故還是繼續發生這樣成立我們的這個調查結果有什麼意義只是拿到一個這個我們有做到我們自己一個調查的責任但是呢我們的問題還是持續存在啊應該不是這樣的思考作為啦主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9636.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9662.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
我想這個我還是回到剛剛的一個問題因為我們現在目前有很多新興科技的安全問題那我們應該要針對這樣一個造勢的原因給外界有一個比較好的一個正確的一個方式那醫院安衛有沒有可能再做調整譬如說我之前也提過了我們半年我們調查半年就提供一份可能的一個造勢的初步判斷結果初判表有沒有可能做這樣的一個準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9664.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9684.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
我們事實上每個案子調查都有會有初步報告會有啦但是如果比較我剛講如果比較社會關注的我們會把已經發掘的一些事實不是分析事實資料我們會彙整彙整對外應該要加快 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9686.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9709.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
另外還有一個問題就是現在因為無人機的發展迅速當然包含無人機在運用上面包含我們現在台灣也好很多世界各國無人機的一個表演項目也是一個很重要的一個活動但是運安會在2020年已經將無人機事故納入一個正式的調查範圍 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9710.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9726.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
那截至目前為止我們有調查了幾件無人機的一個案件?有沒有一個具體的數據?我們目前無人機有四件在調查四件而已喔?完成了 已經完成四件總共現在件數幾件?總共就是四件 我們四件都完成調查了 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9727.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9748.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
因為目前根據統計我們國內的無人機的註冊數量已經突破了三萬九千架次所以表示我相信我這是我們國內的這個產業快速的發展那當然我們希望這樣的一個無人機的一個運用上面應該是更多元也能夠做更多的一個使用但是你看像這個最近這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9750.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9774.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
大陸的湖南 去年大陸的湖南這個煙火的一個墜落當然大家對大陸的無人機的一個品質有疑慮我們國內的品質比較好但是我們也要求這個國內的無人機的發展上面是不是應該怎麼樣兼具這樣的一個發展的一個我們的問題應該怎麼樣提供給業者做一個參考主委是不是有這樣一個建議的一個事項 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9776.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9804.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
報告委員有關於這個問題我們也感受到這個全世界有關無人機的發展跟我國國內的業務的發展所以我們預計今年會啟動一個無人機的安全研究這個研究是要花多久時間我們預計大概是在年底以前可以完成年底以前可以完成那有針對這個一個參考國外的事件來做一個所謂的事前調查的一個方案嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9805.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9823.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
目前我們是收集全世界的資料還有國內的資料然後一併考量好我看這個要加快來進行因為現在無人機的使用使用率是非常非常的高那最後一個問題主委今天我們屏東九棚有一個國家發火箭的發射場 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9825.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9839.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
預定在2032年完工那我知道我們這個以我們太空發展法第18條的規定這個未來太空事故的調查是由我們院安會來做主導那主委你們目前的人力夠嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9841.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9859.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
我們沒有專業的人力但是我們會就現有的調查官裡面有航太背景的調查官然後請他協助然後我們有成立一個所謂的專家小組專家小組我們會有外聘一些比較有所有專精的人來一起幫忙我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9860.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9886.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
應該這個也是要列為一個很重要的一個項目啦那尤其我想我們在2032年我們屏東成立之後我想未來我們也期待從產官學界整個太空產業的一個建制但這個建制之外蓬勃發展之外未來你們的部分有沒有跟著上來我們是要歡樂啦所以你們專業的一個太空調查人力的部分我想應該是要列為一個很重要的案件主委你有信心嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9887.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9908.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
有啦 有啦 如果未來太空事務調查的一些能量上來之後那因為國家太空航空中心他們也他們的時程我們也會跟著上啦對啦 因為這個是涉及到跨部會的一個結合嘛所以不要 國客會做好啊 高友博做好啊 經濟部做好啊 只有我們做不夠這也會漏氣啊 主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9911.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9933.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
我們到時候如果人力不足我們會跟人力行政總署爭取名額啦爭取名額你有爭取名額你的薪水就賺不到人 簽不到人那有什麼用這外太空的那些不是所以可能在一些整體的薪資結構跟一個專業度的考量上面主委還是要多費點心啦是是是謝謝委員關心 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9938.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9943.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
好謝謝許富奎委員發言謝謝我們主委接下來我們請許智傑委員發言謝謝主委謝謝主席我們再請主委好謝謝我們請林主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9967.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9991.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
阿文好 主委好 那個陳尚體我們太空中心的目標就是將來有自己的發射台還有自己可以發射衛星 然後有自己的太空產業相關等等的 所以未來天空真的是會非常的擁擠 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9993.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
10017.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
那當然天空擁擠相對的就是事故就會越來越多嘛所以相對的我們也必須要先預作一些防範未然的工作比如說那個前一陣子在嘉義外海這個星鏈它的一個衛星爆炸碎片呢 臨近台灣 很近嘛 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
10019.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
10026.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
那這個萬一將來有碎片掉到台灣砸傷人或砸死人這個要誰負責 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
10035.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
10058.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
報告委員 這個有關於火箭發射的過程裡面那它的可能某些結束模段它自動會掉下來那掉下來的過程裡面雜傷的這個人員的話依照這個我們目前的這個應該說有兩部分一部分是國際上的規定其實國際上對這一部分並沒有很明確的規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10060.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10087.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
那對國內的規定的話呢目前是 太空發展法是有寫第18條是有關於太空事故之調查由運安會辦理那這是一個依據運安會要管理 要調查 要了解吧是 然後另外一部分就是有關於這個我們的A2事故調查法是這個目前正在送這一個部分條修正草案的進行當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10088.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10108.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
修正草案 已經送行政院了所以將來這個擁擠的太空可想而知會越來越多現在馬斯克不是星鏈希望說衛星要佈滿全球嗎未來他搞不好真的想取代電信通訊嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10110.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10126.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
那天空中這麼多的衛星那包括我們台灣自己也要發展衛星所以相關的未來的太空事故的規劃事故調查這個運安會是不是會去承擔起這個責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10128.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10156.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
我們有在今年的四月一號召開一個今年度的第一次太空事故調查專家小組會議那這個會議裡面我們有開始在朝你所謂重大太空事故的範圍那因為重大事故因為它它有範圍有涉及我們先不要講重大啦因為重大當然就是它可能會多重大你們要界定好我們要定義出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10157.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10169.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
那包括其實越南會有一個部分有進步我要給你們誇獎一下啦就是之前電動車鋰電池的燃燒以前你們越南會是說三個人 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10171.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10193.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
以上的事故你們才會調查那之前我也諮詢過這個鋰電池現在各方面的專業再加上他需要有比較專家去了解到底事故的原因所以現在雲南匯這一部分你們也有進步啦現在電動車的事故你們就肯調查嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10194.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10214.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
就會調查啦這個是運安會的進步這個當然要給你們鼓勵一下那我相對的就是去做延伸就是說因為太空事故現在真的很難講那一個碎片下來砸死人砸傷人都是事故嘛那這個你們要界定是要砸傷三個人以上才調查嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10217.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10245.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
我們現在對太空事務的這個調查有這個小組正在一直密集在討論你們現在目前的立場可能是怎麼樣現在我們的立場是太空發展法就只有一句話講說太空事務有運安會調查但是我們如果來比照航空的話航空的一些民航的一些意外不是運安會調查是民航局調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10246.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10261.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
我知道啦所以這個變成這個太空的相關事故它沒有一個主管機關我不知道要找誰討論你航空有一個民航局嘛那水路事故方面有一個航港局嘛那太空事故我不知道它的主管機關到底要找誰啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10261.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10282.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
現在是那個國科會太空中心嗎所以我的意思就是防範未然嘛很多事情你如果都已經大家都有覆案了大家都知道怎麼做了那就簡單啦問題是現在要防範未然大家都不知道怎麼做的時候總要有個帶頭的嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10285.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10313.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
那我是這樣子希望啦跟要求啦那也是要院內會可以研究啦也就是說今天坦白講事故重大事故本來院內會在處理陸海空都是處理重大事故嘛一般的事故那通常他們各有單位會去處理嘛但是如果一些比較新興的比較特殊的就像電動車你們也承擔下來我們也感謝啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10314.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10342.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
因為這個鋰電池燃燒有時候以前的交通部的經驗沒有這個經驗嘛所以這個需要有一些學術的研究去研究那我講的太空碎片現在太空中心也不是負責這個嘛那但是我講萬一掉下來砸到人 砸傷人 砸死人那這個是不是總是要有個單位先把它承擔下來我要先去調查嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10344.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10369.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
那這個目前我看最適合的就是雲南會不知道主委的意下如何我們會跟國科會協調或者是開會過程中會跟他討論到底怎麼分工我是希望說那個雲南會真的是多一點承擔啦多一點宣傳也讓國人知道雲南會的功能嘛我舉個例子雲南會你們的FB |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10372.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10395.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
你知道你們FB現在狀況怎麼樣嗎?真的很不好意思跟委員報告我們以前確實有事故調查技術能量的介紹或者指標性的事故的調查案件我們確實有FB、YouTube我們確實有上傳現在呢?不好意思我們112年之後因為我們沒有編列這個媒體政治和醫護訓導會所以後來就沒有更新 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10399.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10420.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
你也知道沒有更新齁 我跟主委報告齁你們只有YouTube啦你們連FB都沒有啦IG也沒有啦 催也沒有啦現在年輕人想知道說 我那個ATP那個剎車系統普悠瑪的事件經過院會的調查 現在狀況如何改善如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10427.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10450.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
那我民眾如果想知道我去議員會看哇 那什麼都沒有我太魯閣事件我跟主委諮詢過很多次了我這個邊波防護系統經過議員會的調查跟要求現在進度如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10453.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10478.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
這個可以在網路上我們可以呈現我復興航空空難唯一的倖存者他怎麼活下來的我們可以在社群媒體上再努力看看怎麼樣把它當成一個提供政府跟社會大眾一個管道所以最後就延伸到我跟雲南會問了很多次 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10479.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10508.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
我說以前我質詢和安會的時候他也認為我和安跟社會宣導有什麼關係啊但人家現在坦白講做得不錯他到華山啦 到很多地方舉辦啦 南部也有啦很多人民啦 我說人民對這個和安或者是核電他透過他這個辦的這個活動事實上也在科普教育獲得了好評 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10509.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10538.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
那運安會其實我要求很多次比如說你如果有辦個活動那你把這個ATP啦 普悠瑪啦那個太魯閣啦把一些重大事故的案件你做個整理demo給人民看事實上我覺得這個其實對於運安的運輸的教育其實是人民會有感 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10539.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10567.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
那這個部分我已經講了好幾次了不知道有沒有機會把它完成有啦 我們有遵照原的指示齁在 譬如說113年的年底在高雄就辦那個一覽之旅教研討會的時候我們就我給他做一個分辨讓主委參考啦主委你這個研討會比較學術性我們都肯定啦我的意思是說讓市民有感啦讓人民有感啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10568.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10596.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
那跟人民接觸啦讓人民知道說這些重大案件現在狀況如何啦那不管是辦活動啦還是你們的YouTube啦 你們的IG FB啦那個一定要花錢嘛 不花錢裡面自己經營一個FB有這麼困難嗎而且FB都已經比較老了耶那IG 現在我們越南會完全都沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10597.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10622.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
那我原來會 其實做這個讓人民有感他對你的信任度 對政府的信任度都會比較高啦這個有沒有辦法 主席委員的指示我們把那幾個特殊的案子 太魯閣 剛剛ATB我們做幾個專題好不好 我們希望看到結果啦因為我今天講的 每次都這樣子要求要求都沒做 我都想罵大聲一點都不知道怎麼罵 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10623.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10647.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
有啦 有在研討會有做宣導但是沒有像委員剛剛提的用專題式的我們繼續努力就具體一點 讓人民有感的然後人民想知道未來這個問題怎麼解決心裡也有個覆案 國家有在努力有做的事情進度到哪裡 讓人民知道這不是很好嘛 好不好是是好啦 那就 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10650.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10669.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
這幾個包括活動包括這幾個宣傳是不是讓我看到成果可以下次我要問要有成果不要老是問都沒有成果這樣子你都不好意思我也不好意思對不對好不好謝謝OK謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10673.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10690.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
謝謝許智傑委員下一位登記質詢發言的委員黃建豪召委好 請黃建豪委員好 謝謝主席主席 我們要邀請那個主委 林主委邀請林主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10694.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10703.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
阿文好主委好 主委我想這個運營會的這個機構的這個定位應該就是整個台灣這種運輸安全的幕僚單位嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10705.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10723.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
是吧 對不對那我們看一下 看到其實我們很關注我們這個公路運輸大眾運輸這部分的一些事故案件我們從近5年的這個案子來看起來全國大型車涉入案件事故的統計啊110年的時候才10158件那114年就去年已經到了110504件那這5年之間呢 從110年到114年 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10731.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10755.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
他的這個數據不是說起起伏伏 他不是起起伏伏 他是每年逐年在增加這個事故數字是逐年增加那從110年到114年已經增加到1300件 就相比起來然後每年的死亡人數因為大車導致的死亡人數大約在400人上下左右跳動那死傷人數也是從110年到114年也是逐年在上升 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10756.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10780.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
所以說這幾年雖然大家不斷強調新的安全不斷強調說這個希望注意交通安全但是就客觀數字上看起來這個大車造成的事故數跟死亡人數它完全沒有下降而且反而是在成長那當然原因是因為可能大型車的體積大還有它死角多所以發生事故的時候那它致死的風險還有致傷害的風險當然比小客車來得更大那過去呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10781.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10801.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
主管機關確實有推動所謂行車視野輔助系統希望能夠來解決所謂看不到這個問題那如果我們根據審計部在113年裡面有提到一件事情就公車這種大型車交通事故時率增加這些安全管理要改善的部分就是要希望說要去增加這個先進安全的輔助系統的普及率 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10802.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10817.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
那省紀部那時候也引述了說其他國家比如說美國他們的這個交通安全管理局研究裡面也會強調94%的車禍是因為人為疏失也是需要用這種先進車輛安全服務系統來協助防範 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10817.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10842.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
那我們看到數據我們有一個調查數據全國市區客運裝有這種安全輔助系統車輛大概只有516輛那佔總車輛的5.04%所以我要問的是說到底在當然運安會過去我在上會期在跟主委討論的時候主委也說運安會要處理的是大型的重大的交通事故那時候我也跟主委講我們也看到客觀事實是全台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10843.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10866.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
這種大型車輛造成的交通事故它雖然每一件事情是各案各案各案各案發生可是它整體看起來就像我們看到的數據嘛它整體來講應該是說我國的到底我們大型車造成的交通事故是不是成了一個系統性的問題議員會有沒有責任去了解主委對這件事情的看法是什麼我們對ADAS的這種系統性的事故我們確實有開始在調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10867.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10891.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
像國道1號大雅路段撞房撞車這個事故還有福瑋路國道1號福瑋路的自創復燃掉下來那個也是一樣還包括這個禮拜要結案的陽梅這個也是ADAS這些系統性的案子出來我們會做分析 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10894.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10915.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
不會變成單一個案好 謝謝主委因為主委你看還有一件事情你說這個AIDAS的部分如果真的要裝過去其實前幾年其實政府有推動類似這個政策去補助去要求去裝但現階段這個現行的AIDAS補助政策我可以發現今天是資源是有碎片化而且城鄉有落差這個公共總局109年的時候是針對遊覽車客運業有補助然後要求要來裝那針對市區客運的話現在是 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10921.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10936.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
像這個各地方這種狀況不一樣台中市是有說針對車零六年內市區公司提供這個49%的最高上限五萬元的補助然後台北市是最高到七萬元比較有錢的六都裡面也可以這樣做但是到其他城市其他縣 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10937.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10958.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
他可能就沒有這樣子的狀況他就沒有這樣的金沒有這樣的這麼多預算可以做這些事情所以就大家自己想辦法活下來嘛所以在這種ADAS如果說你們做出這個報告的話你們會去建議公路總局會建議交通部應該要去要求我們的大客車跟大貨車去裝這樣子相關的配套措施嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10961.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10986.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
報告委員那個我們就大型車的部分目前正在調查的由相關A-10的案件起碼有兩件就是龍泰案以及在桃園機場的這一個國光客運撞到這一個扎到的這個牆面的這兩個案子那在這兩個案子當中我們都有探討到這個A-10相關的議題那就目前這一個主管的算是交通部底下的車輛安全審訊中心車案中心那他們在這一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10988.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
11003.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
成立安全審驗基準裡面都有規定目前有一些規定就有關AIDAS規定但是確實如委員所知這個是不是強制性的那如果我們這邊後續如果調查到有相關的這些議題我們適時會提出這些相關的改善建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
11004.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
11025.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
因為現在新車 現在新出廠的院子上都會有要求要裝啦但是現在我們要面對說我們現在路上跑的這些大型車輛不管是他是所謂的大客車或大貨車因為我先講 我今天討論其實你說小型車當然小型車也是有些事故 但是小型車造成的死傷比例他的狀況沒有像大型車這麼嚴重 就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
11026.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
11052.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
撞下去通常你被大車撞到八九步歷史這個情況都很嚴重所以我們今天才特別拿這個案子出來討論因為過去相關的這個討論裡面也有那我想再請教一個細節在你們針對剛剛主委說也進行相關討論的研究那在這樣的事故裡面有多少人是因為他是因為疲勞駕駛的關係或者是因為他沒有注意到車嫌狀況導致這樣子大型車發生事故有這樣的研究嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
11055.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11080.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
包括我們沒有特別的統計但是確實在每起事故當中很多都是跟人為因素那這邊又有關於駕駛員的疲勞跟工時管理這些相關的那我們在幾個案子裡幾個事故調查案子當中也都有針對疲勞跟工時管理的議題進行這個分析的這些議題那也都有提出具體的這些改善建議了好謝謝我想希望主委說在後續的調查裡面應該去做針對這種因果關係說是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11083.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11088.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
假設這些事故這1萬多件每年這1萬多件的交通事故假設他有裝ADAS |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11090.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11116.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
有沒有可能避免掉他的事故還是他有裝而沒裝都不影響他的結果我覺得這個是運營會應該去做相關的研究去做相關的調查這每一個案件他當然是每個個案一萬多件都是個案但是一萬多個案裡面他是不是會不會哪些個案幾個多少比例是因為如果他有裝ADAS或者是因為裝ADAS所以避免了更嚴重的事故這個我覺得說在後續的調查報告裡面能不能呈現出來有沒有辦法技術上能不能抓到這些事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11119.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11141.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
我們基本上是針對我們立案的這些案件那如果有涉及相關的我們會跟相關的單位索取相關的這些A達值的這些事故的資料那就就這個在所蒐集的這些資料會再進行進一步的分析好謝謝那這個再來就剛剛很多人提到台鐵的問題就是說這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11143.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11173.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
台鐵當然一直發生最近真的我們有時候對台鐵也是有點無可奈何就是他們發生事故之後當然院會都會做相關的調查但是我們要問一件事情是在大概很前面也都提到了目前來講每年每次這樣發生發生完事故之後你們會進入調查但是就台鐵的比例來講就是說你們在列管的案件就是還沒有解決的改善意見有高達31項尚未解除列管那其中超過3年的有10項那到底 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11173.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11202.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
因為主委你在剛剛一開始的簡報裡面一開始的報告裡面提到說你們提到你們提出的建議是務實可行讓業務單位能夠執行的但是我們就這個狀況看起來以台鐵為例有31件還在列管有10件是達3年以上那到底是因為你們的建議他們做不到不切實際還是他們你們的建議他們不想做還是怎麼樣到底什麼原因早日說這個幕僚機幕僚單位你們提出的報告結果業務單位實施執行機關他做不了這個改變到底是原因在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11203.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11226.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
而被建議的機關他是肯做他也在做而且有些是涉及他要他系統化要改革他要編預算他要工程所以他確實有有些案子他變成我不要他制度面的改革啊我們也認為他可行他還在進行中所以並不是說我們的改善已經不可行是可行的來主委我跟你講了如果31年應該這樣講我們先不要談31年我們講這三年 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11229.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11241.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
超過三年有十件那這三年不管是預算也好不管是執行費也好如果一個會造成事故的案件的事情超過三年有十件沒有辦法改善那到底問題在哪裡是你們的建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11242.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11260.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
他們做不到呢還是怎麼樣我覺得這個是比較需要細部去討論的嘛不然每次報告出來你們有做到你們的調查的你們有盡到調查的義務可是出來之後這些執行單位如果超過三年還是沒辦法改善的話那這個調查的或是這個改善的計畫等於就沒有作用啦不是這樣嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11261.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11277.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
譬如說我跟委員報告譬如說那個航空的部分我們先以清泉桿機場是台中機場它的跑道中心線要裝足心燈然後的航波度要改善這是國防部因為它是軍用機場嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11278.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11302.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
他要編譯 轉他主連這樣子對譬如說這個航港局我們要他強化船舶交通就是VTS系統的改善那他也要制定他也要討論他要開公聽會然後譬如說鐵道局我希望那個台鐵的司機駕駛就司機駕駛室裝那個影音的記錄器他們也在做了但是因為那個司機公衛他們有一些意見所以這個比較冗長有在做 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11305.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11330.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
好啦沒關係啦我是希望說這個最後時間不夠了但我要去拜託主委啊就是說育安會是這麼重要的單位那也是一個一級單位那你們提出來的建議就說還是要回到你一開始講的要務實可行就說這個報告不是學術討論的就說你們是行政機關的就說提出來的東西這些業務單位也要給你們反饋到底他們困境在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11331.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11351.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
未來怎麼修正我覺得這個是大家互相啦就是說提出來的他們要能夠確實解決不然不然如果一直掛在那邊十年這個三年三年無法解決那這個建議就等於是沒有沒有辦法發生沒有辦法去做實際上改變好不好主委我們一起往這方面去努力我們會繼續跟他們努力的好謝謝謝謝薛烈偉謝謝謝謝黃建豪委員的發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11364.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11367.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
好我們接下來請邱若驊委員發言好謝謝主席主席請運安會林主委我們請林主委阿維好 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11381.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11402.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
主委好 主委同樣的要和您討論台鐵的運安根據運安會的業務報告自108年成立以來鐵道事故立案調查也累積超過了數十件你們也多次的針對台鐵提出多項的安全改善建議可是最近新自強號在吊車場遭撞的事件又再次的曝落 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11403.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11429.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
作業員長期關閉ATP然後現場的信號標誌也是長期故障的運安會你們雖然有多次建議台鐵吊車的作業應該要電腦化可是台鐵停留在人工然後還有視覺作業那衍建運安會的安全改善建議對台鐵並沒有約束力先請教諸葳一個問題交通部還有台鐵他們有沒有法定的義務必須要落實你們的建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11433.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11438.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
我在上個月有一次的參會上碰到台鐵總經理我有跟他談 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11440.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11466.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
他說他也很頭痛 因為這個是長期累積下來就是習性啦就是因為他就剛剛我們執行長講的吊車廠事實上是蠻複雜的那主委你認為是台鐵不去做還是交通部讓台鐵他們可以不用去做我們必須要遵守 因為現在怎麼連ATP都可以長期關閉呢那包括現場的那個號誌他也是長期故障 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11467.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11483.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
我們不好意思批評我們不是他的主管席我們是做調查提出建議那如果承認委員講如果說像吊車場的吊車速度如果一直在累積發生的話將來會變成系統系統系統的時候我們可能會專案報專案報行政院來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11485.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11485.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
報言喔 針對這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11508.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11522.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
報告員針對這個台鐵這邊的一個改善建議的一個落實那其實在我們的事故調查法規裡面那這個是由行政院這邊去列管我們的運安會所提出來改善建議再由運安會每半年會去 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11524.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11549.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
就是會去追蹤一次那所以針對這一方面的一個這一方面的改正建議呢其實我們都有在這邊列管目前的執行人員我們現在看到現在的問題不是雲安會沒有專業而是你們的制度讓專業沒有被獲得重視跟回應嗎那針對我先請教一個問題長期關閉ATP那吊車廠的耗製它故障沒有去修那這個是不是可以預見的重大風險 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11552.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11562.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
這個確實是制度變成問題管理的問題那為什麼那為什麼吊車廠就是你們有說要電腦化那這項改善建議那台鐵還是呈現牛布呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11563.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11584.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
你們有沒有去了解是 包委員剛剛您昨天提到的這個電腦化應該指的是它的維修作業它的這些相關機路要電腦化那因為這個部分我們在一開始的這個台鐵的這個普悠瑪事故我們就已經提出來那台鐵也逐年編列預算那目前這個電腦化有關於維修管理的這個電腦化太好說了這預算都是逐年編列的嗎 那 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11585.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11609.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
這個預算他ATP本身就存在那包括號誌他也存在現場那我們可以看到在你們每一次的調查報告中就是這主要兩大因素然後包括現場能源他們作業是有疏失的嘛那我想請教主委喔你們也有參與國際的交流嘛你們非常的積極那像美國的National Transportation Safety Board他們有建立一個Watch List有一個清單那目前運安會有沒有這個清單呢這個Safety Watch |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11614.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11638.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
跟委員報告啊 那NTSB它目前它的what is已經它變成一個試狀況去提出來那我們匯率的話從113年開始我們每年會針對上位解列的這個感染檢疫還有這個事故發生的狀況去分析各模組的運輸重大運輸事故的一個安全議題在這個你們有沒有去做分級雖然你們也是都有做出報告嘛那有沒有將這個風險去做分級呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11640.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11669.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
我們會針對這些每一個模組會提出4到5個我們從調查裡面所看到的比較值得要注意的一個安全的議題這個是我們從113年開始每年都會都會去產生這樣的報告那這個機制就是類似像美國的這個Most Wanted List只是說他們現在也不我剛剛講的是Watch List就是有一個清單你們必須要告訴就是告訴社會大眾他們存在的問題那目前這個清單有被公開嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11670.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11695.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
我們是放在研究 放在我們報告裡面那我們報告就是公佈的 對吧 公佈的所以放在網站上我們可以看到你們確實有建立這個清單對 只是我們是用調查這個研究報告的方式去公佈沒有用成網頁的那主委回到我剛才的問題 像ATP的問題然後還有耗資的問題你們有沒有向交通部表達你們強烈的抗議交通部應該知道因為這個議題都是已經很大的議題 他知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11696.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11717.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
因為我們看到現在你們的建議都只是停留在報告嘛那就是要看這些單位他們做與不做對不對那我還是希望你們可以再積極一點啦說希望你們做出來的調查報告你有你們的專業可是不要讓你們專業都需要被尊重不要讓你們做出來的報告只是停留在建議而已這點你們可以回去討論嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11719.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11728.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
我們會加把勁報行政院列管的時候會我們會適度的跟行政院滿意會跟行政院那是不是等到很嚴重的時候你們是不是要送檢察員 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11732.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11749.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
因為我們現在討論的是運輸安全每天有那麼多的國人他是搭乘高鐵雖然這都是發生在吊車場可是像這樣子小的問題那他們會說他們有進行教育訓練那我還是希望你們可以把你們的專業再次的向台鐵反映可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11750.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11779.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
包委員這個部分我們會跟台鐵在做一個定期的會議那就是確認他們在我們提出的相關改善建議上執行上是不是有什麼困難要有什麼我們可以協助的地方來協助他們盡快改善完成因為像你們都有參加國際的交流會議那其他國家比如像英國的做法他們有要求強制回應那我們在台灣這部分還沒有做到那我們這邊可不可以做到他們必須要強制回應你們要定期追蹤然後再給你們一個就是說他們改善具體改善的成果 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11781.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11794.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
其實現在在我們電腦法還有行政院函班的列管作業規定其實都有相關的制度像台鐵總共有125個改善建議那目前還沒有完成的是19項那有5項是這個列管超過3年那這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11795.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11821.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
還沒完成的19項那當然有一些是因為像有關吊車的事故還有這些它是屬於去年是114年12月還有今年3月所發布的所以這些感恩建議發布所以你們自己在做吊車報告的時候也看到這些事故一再的發生嗎那我這邊就是要求運安會也要積極的來建議建議台鐵OK嗎OK好那主委上一次在委員會我也向您提到嘛TNCAP的測試報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11822.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11838.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
那台灣新車安全平等近期又再次撞出零顆星的車款雖然這個車款它符合VSCC的法規審驗可是它對乘客的保護力極低目前運安會你們是負責事故調查那對於這樣子預防性的安全平等然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11839.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11853.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
我們現在也確實缺乏法規的介入機制我們看到機制有編列預算然後去做這樣的安全測試我們對不合格的車輛也是束手無策我們沒有要求召回或是限制銷售 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11855.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11869.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
我想請教主委當我們就是透過TNCAP已經明確掌握這些車輛它確實它明顯的低於安全標準那這樣子你們做出來的報告跟測試是不是它有具體的危險資訊呢你們是不是也有掌握 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11870.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11891.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
TNCAP的部分我請組長來說明一下報告委員 TNCAP基本上是針對這個給民眾這邊來做一個安全性的參考那事實上交通部車安中心VLCC他們有針對這個車輛安全檢測基準裡面就已經有規定所謂的震撞碰撞側撞碰撞的保護 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11893.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11912.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
車輛要領排或是要通過安全審驗都必須要通過這個症狀跟車狀相關的這些檢測攤上路所以這兩個功能基本上是不太一樣不過我們的交通部的相關的法規已經有針對這個碰撞的部分有一些相關的檢測基準需要遵循這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
11913.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
11941.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
所以那院會這邊會不會提供就是你們測試的報告給交通部讓交通部也知道那對於這樣子的車輛我們應該要明確標示跟示警也讓國倫知道基本上如果有碰撞相關的事故的話在我們調查過程當中就會去探究他這些碰撞的樣態有沒有符合這些安全審驗的這個規定然後再就這樣的狀況再去做後續的這樣的分析 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
11942.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
11962.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
OK 好 了解那主委這邊其實今天跟您討論的事情都是一樣嘛我們不缺報告那我們需要再就是報告我們的就是你們報告出來之後那他們後續可以有什麼樣的更積極的作為雲安會希望可以你們讓像台鐵也讓國人知道車輛的安全是OK 好 謝謝主委謝謝委員 謝謝好 謝謝我們邱若驊委員的發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
11968.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
11976.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
接下來我們請洪玉祥委員 洪玉祥 洪玉祥 委員不在接下來請鍾嘉斌 鍾國斌 鍾國斌不在現在請游皓委員發言謝謝趙偉那就請主委我們請主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
11991.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
12012.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
主委好主委好主委本席剛才在來的時候尤其包括看到最近的許多的報導其實我們在今天的質詢也看了各種不管是鐵路或是公路或自動車或是民航機或是各種事故的一個甚至三人以上的相關的報告的一些進度 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
12013.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
12035.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
我想說國家運輸安全調查委員會不僅是調查事故那同時應該是針對整個國家運輸安全還來進行調查或有很多的一些相關研究那本期想要先討論一下其實目前來講就在思考最近每天的報導頭條都是中東的石油跟人員安全的部分那它相關影響到底是國家運輸安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
12037.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
12052.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
那如果說只有被動的一個事故的調查那如果是以整體的國家運輸安全在於這個能源危機上面受到的影響來講那我覺得你覺得國家國家安全國家運輸安全調查委員會可以做些什麼的研究或建議嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
12055.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
12084.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
沒有嘛對不對那所以說本席還是覺得說可能主委也要思考一下因為今天來講他不是國家運輸安全事故調查委員會他應該是要換個角度如何能夠針對不僅是事故的部分而是在整體國家運輸安全可以提出更好的一個就是具有國家戰略的一個建議啊因為不管是如果以石油來講大家都說是經濟部嘛那如果說以航線來講的話是不是減航班或調整航班石油的問題那可能就是民航局嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
12085.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
12105.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
那或是在鐵路來講高鐵等等那我是覺得說今天來講國家運輸安全調查委員會那除了事故之外也沒有可能因為大家說有經驗的人都集中在貴黨委那如果說今天可不可以有換一個角度應該針對整體國家運輸安全提出更有戰略性的建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12105.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12120.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
然後這個部分我坦白講主委你也不一定能夠回答因為你們幾乎都有案起用起調查之後才能夠進行但是我覺得專業的人才集中在貴單位那應該是換一個角度如何能夠讓就是委員會這邊能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12121.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12135.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
更有一個大家各單位重視的價值我覺得應該可以來做思考那現在沒有做相關的研究說不定未來就是很需要相關的研究而不是現在做或是現在提出建議較為可惜 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12137.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12164.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
那另外的話我也想要再請教一下我們今天每個組的組長還有其實包括各式的主任其實都在現場那有用AI的工具來做任何的做相關的報告的研究還來做輔助的是不是可以請列席的就是長官舉個手好不好有應用AI的部分OK好謝謝那這樣子很好那這樣子目前來講的這個AI的工具在 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12165.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12182.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
我們的整體的一個研究單位的一個調查應該是都有蠻大的一個注意啊那我也很開心就是是每一位都舉手啊那所以說那這樣子運安委的能量上面來講至少都有不斷的在精進那同樣的我要接著來問 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12183.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12204.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
像目前來講 制度的部分還是沒有辦法去解決是說在328件的一個調查事故中 193項的一個改善建議但是82項未解除列管 包括剛才萬美玲我也有提到但是沒有辦法解除列管的部分到底要如何來解決這樣子的一個制度上的問題我請那個民進黨主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12208.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12232.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
跟委員報告 因為每年會有新發布的感染建議所以也會有解列的 雖然大家看目前是82項那我給另外一個數字 在到113年底的時候當時有144項的感染建議尚未解除列管那經過一年多 目前有82項那這個當然80項還有很多是因為但是去年下半年才發布調報所產生的新的感染建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12233.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12254.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
所以這個整體未解決感染建議的數量其實有在減少那我們每半年都會去追蹤他們的執行進度那如果一直到他們完成或持有實質的進度那我們才會建議行政院解除列管所以我們是不會輕易解除列管的所以才說還會有一些感染建議在列管當中那以上說明OK 好 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12255.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12270.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
因為目前來講的話運安會所提出的這些報告其實都非常的珍貴所以說相關的一個建議的話其實許多的部會他們是不是能夠配合來落實這個改善那其實除了運安會的報告來提供建議之外那其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12271.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12288.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
這個列管它是一個形式但是到底是不是能夠具體改善因為至少有15項是3年以上還沒有辦法得到改善那所以在這個機制上還是要建議主委看如果在行政院的一個跨部會的一個協調上面能夠協助讓其他的部會來重視運安會的報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12289.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12319.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
那我坦白講文字書面上的一個解案上面是是一個層次啊實際上是不是機關上面能夠認同這麼重要的一個研究成果來去做後續的持續來做精進改善因為他不像監督的時候我們有一個約束力嘛我們畢竟還是有預算的監督的角色啊那是運安會的有時候所做的東西更為專業的時候他們部會是不是能夠認帳那我覺得這個還是要更積極的來去提升這樣子的一個一個機制上的改善 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12319.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12347.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
那再來這個科技已經進入AI時代但是制度的部分一樣要持續來去做一個加強那在報告中提到電動車起火電動公車起火ADS輔助事故都不是單一個案那在目前來講的一個電子安全標準跟ADS使用責任的一個明確那這個其實之前就已經有提出過那本席也想在這個今天的質詢再追蹤一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12348.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12356.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
那當初在運安會向交通部提出的一個完整的新興運居安全制度的建議那目前交通部配合運安會改善的程度為何 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12363.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12380.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
有關電動車的部分 目前我們過往調查的四個案子目前還有兩個案子正在進行當中有關電池燃燒的部分 就我們已公布的調查案裡面找到的電池燃燒的原因多半都是電池受到強烈的撞擊之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12381.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12397.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
然後電池產生短路而造成的這些失火的原因那都有伴隨高速的撞擊的這個狀況所以我們現在倒沒有發現說有這個電池它的設計或說製造不良的原因而造成 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12397.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12418.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
我懂你的意思 你的意思是說還是單一事件啦還是因為稍稍撞擊而產生的事故所以研究報告相對還是在這個方面那我的意思是說因為你們在報告中提出的一個機師上面或是制度上面的一個改善或法規的建議的部分那交通部他們是不是有配合在新型運居安全制度上面來去做一個相關的建議的改善 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12420.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12434.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
有關新興預計的話現在有比較相關的是自駕車的部分也就是所謂的現在先進下駛輔助系統那我們也針對這個部分提出了改善建議那交通部也都蠻積極正面的來推動相關的檢測基準的規範那 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12436.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12465.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
好 那沒關係 那目前來講提供建議跟他們回應來講提出規範的書面資料再提供給百姓辦公室OK 好 謝謝那在報告明信中指出台灣會建立道路安全審核RSA的制度但是這個制度上在歐洲或是澳洲的話其實早已經是基本制度那運安會有建立RSA的一個建 就是這個真的等於說給交通部的建議啊那我想問一下交通部對於RSA的這一塊那他是不是也具體回應了 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12468.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12470.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
台北市新北市宜蘭縣平面道路台中 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12487.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12505.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
有一處國道高速公路的一個既有的路段事辦安全的檢查那麼加速導入跟使用那這個案子呢應該是已經快要進入完成了那詳細的結果可能我們還要再請教交通部或運輸研究所 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12505.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12531.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
好那因為這個它是關係到台灣整體的用路安全那所以說本席也希望說能夠知道就是目前交通部他的這個進度但是這個主要也是感謝運安會提供給交通部那麼重要的一個建議那所以我也希望說把運安會這個提供建議也希望交通部能夠落實改善的一個進度還兩者相關的資料移並給本席辦公室謝謝謝謝委員指導OK好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12536.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12558.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
好 謝謝永浩委員的發言 謝謝林主委登記質詢委員都已發言完畢那我們做一下決定報告及詢問完畢委員洪玉祥所提書面質詢列入記錄並刊登公報委員在質詢中要求提供相關的書面資料或未及答覆部分請院長會盡速以書面答覆本日會議進行完畢 散會 |