| IVOD_ID |
17330 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17330 |
| 日期 |
2026-04-08 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-15-5 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期內政委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
5 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
15 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
內政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期內政委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2026-04-08T08:34:52+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-04-08T12:00:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
03:25:08 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/eeffa975d6a1e3ea676ba83bee9ba14387da4c7ed56829b97a9d5466ed3f8140fec95ab8055424305ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-04-08T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期內政委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：【變更議程】
一、審查委員羅智強等23人擬具「公職人員選舉罷免法增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。二、審查委員徐欣瑩等17人擬具「公職人員選舉罷免法第一百三十三條條文修正草案」案。三、審查委員林宜瑾等20人擬具「公職人員選舉罷免法第十四條條文修正草案」案。四、審查委員張雅琳等19人擬具「公職人員選舉罷免法第十四條及第一百三十四條條文修正草案」案。五、審查委員范雲等17人擬具「公職人員選舉罷免法第十四條條文修正草案」案。六、審查委員柯志恩等18人擬具「公職人員選舉罷免法第十四條條文修正草案」案。七、審查委員陳菁徽等17人擬具「公職人員選舉罷免法第十四條條文修正草案」案。八、審查委員陳玉珍等17人擬具「公職人員選舉罷免法第二十六條條文修正草案」案。九、審查台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「公職人員選舉罷免法第二十六條條文修正草案」案。十、審查委員林淑芬等23人擬具「公職人員選舉罷免法第二十六條條文修正草案」案。十一、審查委員翁曉玲等16人擬具「公職人員選舉罷免法第二十六條條文修正草案」案。十二、審查委員林宜瑾等22人擬具「公職人員選舉罷免法第二十六條條文修正草案」案。十三、審查委員林宜瑾等20人擬具「總統副總統選舉罷免法第十一條及第二十三條條文修正草案」案。十四、審查委員張雅琳等19人擬具「總統副總統選舉罷免法第十一條、第二十三條及第一百十七條條文修正草案」案。十五、審查委員范雲等17人擬具「總統副總統選舉罷免法第十一條及第二十三條條文修正草案」案。十六、審查委員柯志恩等17人擬具「總統副總統選舉罷免法第十一條及第二十三條條文修正草案」案。十七、審查委員翁曉玲等16人擬具「總統副總統選舉罷免法第二十六條條文修正草案」案。十八、審查委員林宜瑾等20人擬具「總統副總統選舉罷免法第二十六條條文修正草案」案。
【僅詢答；第十一案及第十七案如經復議則不予審查】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:34:52 - 12:00:00 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
185.043 |
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186.727 |
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谢谢观看 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
426.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
427.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
谢谢大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
499.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
501.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
谢谢大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
824.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
826.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
谢谢观看 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
959.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
988.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
響鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1327.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1328.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
谢谢观看 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1473.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1476.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
谢谢观看 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1644.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1653.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
請主任秘書報告出席人數報告委員會,出席委員9人,已足法定人數好,現在開會進行報告事項,請宣讀上次會議議事記錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1654.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1681.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
立法院第十一屆第五會期內政委員會第四次全體委員會議議事錄時間一百一十五年四月一日星期三上午九十至十時五十六分地點紅樓二零二會議室出席委員張宏祿委員等十三人列席委員洪孟凱委員等九人列席官員客家委員會主任委員古秀飛暨相關人員財團法人客家公共傳播基金會董事長宋庭棟暨相關人員客家電視台台長向聖岩 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1682.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1705.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
主席李昭及委員博弈報告事項一宣讀第二次及第三次會議議事錄決定確定二邀請客家委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人客家公共傳播基金會董事長列席報告業務概況含上會期零時提案辦理情形並被質詢客家委員會主任委員谷秀飛財團法人客家公共傳播基金會董事長宋庭棟報告委員張宏祿等11人質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1708.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
1724.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
分由客家委員會主任委員古秀飛暨相關人員財團法人客家公共傳播基金會董事長宋庭棟及客家電視台台長向慎言答覆說明決定一登記發言委員除不在場者外其餘均與發言完畢詢答結束 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
1725.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
1726.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
請問各位委員上次會議失誤有錯誤會議囉 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
1758.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
1759.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
會議記錄如果說現場委員有異議的話我們就暫不確認好那現在進行討論事項請宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
1767.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
1787.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
討論事項審查委員羅志強的23人拟據公職人員選舉罷免法增訂第24條之一條文草案案審查委員徐欣穎等17人拟據公職人員選舉罷免法第133條條文修正草案案審查委員林怡瑾等20人拟據公職人員選舉罷免法第14條條文修正草案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
1788.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
1804.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
審查委員張雅玲等19人拟據公職人員選舉罷免法第14條及第134條條文修正常案案審查委員范雲等17人委員柯志恩等18人委員陳金威等17人分別拟據公職人員選舉罷免法第14條條文修正常案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
1806.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
1818.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
審查委員陳玉珍等17人台灣民眾黨黨團委員林淑芬等23人委員翁曉琳等16人委員林一錦等22人分別擬據公職人員選舉罷免法第26條文修正常案案審查委員林一錦等20人擬據總統副總統選舉罷免法第11條及第23條條文修正常案案審查委員張雅玲等19人擬據總統副總統選舉罷免法第11條第23條及第117條條文修正常案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
1836.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
1847.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
審查委員范雲等17人 委員柯志恩等17人分別女拒總統副總統選舉罷免法第11條及第23條條文修正常案案審查委員翁曉琳等16人 委員林依靜等20人分別女拒總統副總統選舉罷免法第26條條文修正常案案 宣讀完畢好 現在首先介紹在場委員 首先我們介紹李柏毅召委 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
1867.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
1893.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
王美惠委員李貞秀委員還有陳金輝委員還有林一基委員抱歉吳清明委員還有遺漏的嗎?不好意思我們接下來介紹我們內政部劉世芳部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
1895.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
1925.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
民政司鄭英宏司長 副政司蘇志萌檢論視察中央選舉委員會選務處王小林處長法政處蔡金高處長原住民族委員會綜合規劃處曾興中處長司法院民事廳楊舒蘭法官教育部青年發展署陳奕聰副署長法務部謝志明參事 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
1928.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
1943.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
本日議程所列討論事項和並詢答請提案委員說明提案要旨我們首先請林宜菁委員提案說明請思案一併說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
1960.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
1977.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
謝主席有關於18歲公民權的修法本席是認為如果要爭取18歲公民權就要完備相關的法制這是本席在這一屆第三會期就要倡議這件事情而且也是本屆 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
1979.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
1999.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
也是這個本屆最早提出這個修法版本的那我想我也相當樂見朝野都有提出這個相關的提案那不過投票年齡該怎麼樣的訂定呢我覺得當然這是憲法層次的問題那透過單純的修法是沒有辦法徹底解決 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2000.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2014.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
那如果只有修法那行政單位恐怕也在違法跟違憲之間陷入了兩難那所以除了憲法法庭之外包括立委那很多的學說在內沒有任何人可以簡單宣稱18歲公民權可以直接修法是絕對合憲的 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2020.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2029.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
那也因此我們不是為了修法而修法而是為了取得釋憲門票而修法大家都知道這個要解決憲法層次的問題主要有兩個途徑第一個就是修憲第二個是釋憲 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2035.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2063.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
當然修憲不僅門檻高成本也高動員全國上下要做宣傳做投票也未必能達到實質的效果因此本席是主張在本次18歲公民權的修法三讀後直接申請憲法法庭釋憲相對而言成本低很多也可以具備憲政高度的選項當然我們很清楚知道釋憲是需要門票 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2065.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2085.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
早在2015年18歲公民權的釋憲案就有被大法官裁定不受理的先例那時候那個釋憲案是立委丁守中等人提出的那大法官不受理的理由是立法委員有修法權 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2086.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2106.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
那你應該要窮盡一切修法的可能那修法未果再來釋憲不要什麼事都沒有做就要使用釋憲的手段換句話說 釋憲是需要有標的所以立委能釋憲的標的就是修法後的結果所以我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2106.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2121.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
先努力這個推進進行18歲公民權的相關修法後面才有釋憲的門票所以希望朝野委員共同來支持18歲公民權的修法提案讓我們有申請這個憲法法庭 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2122.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2144.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
來裁判18歲是否合憲的機會那把憲法的層次的議題交由憲法法庭去來定奪它的合憲性當然我也覺得這個議題我們要需要透過公聽會來縝密的討論這個當然也有可議的空間期待大家透過公聽會再做詳細的討論也請主席未來再召開公聽會來處理這個議題以上 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2160.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2162.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
請陳金輝委員發言謝謝主席還有謝謝各位在場官員以及委員的出席本席現在就公職人員選舉罷免法第14條的條文修正草案做提案說明18歲究竟是不是大人這個問題在我們現行的法治下其實已經有明確的答案 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2189.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2212.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
早在民國109年12月25日就三讀通過民法修正案將成年的年齡由20歲下修到18歲並且自112年1月1號期施行至此呢18歲的國民在法律上以具完全行為能力可以獨立為法律行為並對自身行為負完全的責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2214.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2232.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
既然國家已經承認18歲是成年人但仍未賦予其投票權顯見現行制度在權力還有責任之間仍有明顯的落差此外去年12月底三讀通過的青年基本法第二條一明定青年是指 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2233.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2257.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
18歲以上35歲以下的國民並要求政府應積極促進青年的公共參與建立健全參與的機制還有保障青年表表義權還有參與公共事務的權利若制度上仍將18歲青年排除於投票權之外那不就與國家鼓勵青年參與公共事務的立場還有立法精神不符合嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2258.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2269.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
再來我們來分析各國的國際趨勢我們可以觀察到日本已經在2016年將投票年齡由20歲下修到18歲韓國亦於2020年由19歲下修到18歲英國德國法國瑞典還有民主國家等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2277.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2302.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
也多以18歲作為政治參與的起點由此可見我們18歲享有投票權早已是國際社會普遍採行的民主標準實務上18歲青年對公共議題並不陌生許多人對社會政策還有國家未來均有深刻的觀察還有清晰的見解思辨能力跟行動力並不亞於成年人他們欠缺的不是能力而是制度給予參與的機會 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2304.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2328.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
基於法治的一致性青年參政權的保障還有民主深化等等的需求本席提出公務人員公職人員選舉罷免法第14條的修正草案將選舉權年齡下收至18歲讓18歲青年在承擔法律責任的同時也能享有完整的公民權利落實世代正義還有民主的參與謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2336.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2340.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
我們接下來請張雅玲委員提案說明請兩岸一併說明好 謝謝主席那我想今天的審查一案呢其實就是維持了我之前跟青年團體們一致的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2355.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2377.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
決議跟一致的心聲就是說呢我們到底要不要讓18歲的公民擁有完整的選舉跟罷免權呢我認為是需要的因為最主要的是說我們的制度上其實早就已經承認了18歲就是一個成年人而且18歲其實就已經要負一個完整的刑事責任可以考駕照可以要服兵役那民法也已經下修成年的年紀所以在國家的所有制度上都已經認定了 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2379.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2390.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
他們有能力來承擔責任可是到了最基本的民主原則的時候呢也就是投票我們卻說你還不具資格那這樣子的標準是不是就有點自相矛盾了 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2391.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2416.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
那再來就是說民主制度本來就是就不是只給被認為夠成熟的人而是給有承擔責任的公民都有參與的權利那何況我們許多國際的民主國家呢早就已經把投票的年齡下修到18歲甚至開始討論到16歲那台灣還停留在20歲其實已經相當落後於其他國家了 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2416.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2430.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
那再來就是說這次的修法我也補上了一個長期的制度缺口過去的法律只有寫選舉權卻沒有清楚的規範罷免權的年紀所以這一次呢我也是做一併的調整讓權力一致制度完整 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2432.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2451.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
最後我想講就是說其實我們一直不停的在講青年參與青年參與公共事務我們希望他們更了解那也參與社會對未來負責但是當他們已經準備好的時候其實我們的制度卻是把門關起來所以這樣子的民主我認為是太矛盾了所以我認為18歲的公民權其實不是給他們什麼特權 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2453.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2468.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
是把本來就該屬於他們的權利還給他們所以在這一次呢我就提了公職人員選舉罷免法跟總統副總統選舉罷免法兩岸一起來處理這樣子的問題支持更多的年輕人更多青年人可以擁有這個18歲的公民權謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2483.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2489.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
好 那我們請台灣民眾黨黨團代表提案說明請李正秀委員代表說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2500.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2525.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
主席各位委員各位列席官員大家好本次台灣民眾黨黨團提出公職人員選舉罷免法第26條之修正條文主要是為了檢討現行制度對於參政權限制的合理性使相關規範回歸比例原則與法治國精神現行規定除了針對貪污賄選國家安全等與職務 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2527.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2547.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
連結及選務公正高度相關犯罪設有嚴格限制外對第一款至第六款以外的罪行防判處有其徒刑以上刑期確定人只要處尚未執行執行未必與緩刑期間或行刑權因時效消滅之情形 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2548.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2565.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
及一律不得登記為候選人這樣的規範是以刑罰執行狀態作為刑事判斷標準未區分犯罪性質與公職行使的實質關聯實務上已形成對倡政權的概括性限制 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2566.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2592.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
而反行一顆罰金與一幅社會勞動主要針對犯罪情節較輕且經法院評估無需如路肩執行的案件所設置的替代處理目的在於促進更生若將此類情形一併納入不得參選的限制範圍等同將輕微或短期的刑事處遇 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2594.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2616.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
擴張為對重要政治權利制限制限縮人民參政權恐有違比例原則以不符法治國精神換句話說現行制度的問題在於不論是重大犯罪還是較輕微的案件只要落在刑罰狀態這個框架內就一律限制參選這就好比用同一把尺 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2617.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2626.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
同時衡量輕罪與重罪雖然標準一致但結果卻不一定公平因此倉著國際實務與我國憲法解釋對倉政權限制應回歸實質審酌 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2633.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2652.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
應該要以是否影響職務連結及選務公正作為判斷核心而非僅以形式上之刑罰狀態作為一律排除依據本次提案之修正重點是針對26條第9款做必要且精準的調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2653.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2671.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
這次提出法條的修正動議請各位委員參考內容主要修正為明定但受緩刑或異刑處分宣告者但受緩刑或異刑處分宣告者不再此限 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2672.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2697.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
將原條文中對於緩刑期間一律限制參選之規定予以排除使制度由刑事判斷轉向實質的關聯審酌本次提案並未放寬對重大犯罪之規範主要是修正現行制度過於僵化部分在維護選舉公正的同時兼顧人民參政權的保障與促進更生 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2697.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2703.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
使制度更具合理性及正當性請各位委員支持 謝謝好 我們接下來請林淑芬委員提案說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2724.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2738.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
謝謝主席我先就我自己的提案先有個疏漏我先告訴大家就是說我看起來我的版本有兩個修正但是有一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2739.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
2755.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
行刑權因離域失效而消滅者這個我是認為不能夠參選的但是我當時提案的時候我們把文字修掉了所以要再補回來就是說你判刑定業有可能你逃亡了然後回來行刑權已經失效了那這種人也是不能參選的就我個人 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
2760.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
2777.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
我的意思是不能參選的但是因為提案上有疏漏這是我們提了一個修正動議先跟大家說明的那接下來我要講就是說憲法第十七條規定人民有選舉罷免創制複決之權但憲法第二十三條它有規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
2778.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
2793.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
顧得以法律限制參政權為應限於防止妨礙他人自由避免緊急危難維持社會秩序或增進公共利益所必要者為限應符合比例原則那再來這裡就說 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
2794.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
2805.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
我們有參選權但是你必須不能妨礙他人自由不能夠製造成緊急危難也要維持社會秩序也要符合社會公義所以在這種狀況裡面我們選罷法第26條關於不得登記參選的規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
2813.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
2833.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
目的就是在於要限制有特定犯罪前科或遭判重刑的人不得參選以符合公共利益在這種狀況裡面我們是要防止這些人藉由取得公職人員的身份去漂白甚至影響國家安全或者是貪污者或者是槍 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
2835.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
2854.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
這個黑金槍獨的人我們認為他不適合在代表人民真正的意志而來參選所以從端正選風落實清廉政治的角度來看當然有限制一定犯罪紀錄的人參選的必要性這個是我們支持的 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
2854.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
2875.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
但是要綜合考量相關犯罪行為樣態處罰的刑度及侵害社會法益的嚴重性等因素來劃定不得參選的標準而不是只要是有前科有犯案就一律剝奪他的參選資格否則就可能違反了憲法所講的比例原則以及公正公約 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
2876.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
2904.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
我現在提了修正的第九款的規定來看我再跟大家強調一次這個不是放寬我們這一個修法不是放寬那這個修法也不是關於妨害國家安全或是內亂外患罪的也不是貪污治罪條例適用的也不是黑金槍炮毒品的適用的就是說不是那一些重罪的 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
2905.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
2918.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
而是一般的刑事犯罪排除前面六款的我們的排黑條款主要就是在講前面六款可是排除前面六款的排黑條款以外的刑事犯罪也納入規範不能參選那其中呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
2921.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
2941.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
第九款的犯罪樣態來講 從罪質上來看的話 它並不是第一到第六款的忠誠義務 廉潔性也不是屬於黑金槍獨的特定重罪 也不是第八款的一般刑事犯罪的被判處重罪的情形 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
2942.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
2952.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
所以基本上相較之下都是輕罪的那現行的規定是嫌違人如果經檢察官為緩起訴處分就可以參選所以不要說這是為了幫蘇清泉脫罪老實說蘇清泉以前的是緩起訴所以他不是緩刑其實緩起訴就沒有受規範了本來就可以選了 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
2968.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
2983.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
雖然他後來還起訴被撤銷但是呢我請大家來講這不是為某個人量身定制我的意思是這樣即便他是國民黨的我仍然還是跟大家講不要這樣子直接就認為說他得到好處啦老實說 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
2986.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3004.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
緩起訴的本來就可以參選那被檢察官起訴以後如果法官判六個月以下的徒刑一顆罰金的話也可以參選那第九款現行在三年前把它改成說只有在法院判決緩刑的時候就不能夠參選 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3006.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3026.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
所以由法官和檢察官來控制人不能參選的資格這個狀況其實是老實說也有一些風險的從檢察官緩起訴案法院給緩刑的角度來說都是認為犯罪情節輕微而且不需要入監服刑 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3027.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3045.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
而且連罰錢都不用所以相較於要去關的相較於可以一顆罰金的就是法官認為他連罰錢都不用是罪行最輕微不需要的那這個罪行的最輕微的不需要的結果不能參選再從法院判決的角度來看給緩刑其實是要給他自新的機會的必要結果變成 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3052.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3064.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
沒給緩刑的可以參選給緩刑的反而不能參選這個是完全不合理法官認為說給你自信啦都不用處罰也不用繳錢也不用關就這種人不能參選然後法官判說一定要關的或者是 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3069.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3087.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
去要繳錢的罰錢的這種人可以參選從第八款和第九款來看的話你會覺得這裡面真的很不合理再對照第八款來講同樣是犯第一到六款以外的罪名第八款是一到六款以外的罪名 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3088.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3104.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
但是是最輕本刑最低是7年以上是重罪的但是要經法院判處10年以上有期徒刑才確定不能參選也就是說如果法院判決9年可以參選8年可以參選987654321通通都可以參選結果第9款的是輕罪的判了緩刑的結果他是不能參選的 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3116.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3143.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
那這個是從第八款和第九款來比較如果從第九款本身來比較的話光是第九款的規定裡面結果反而是法院判決兩年以下的喔然後呢可以同意宣告緩刑的不能選但是呢一顆罰金的可以選同一種罪行然後輕罪的判一顆罰金的可以選判那個緩刑的不能選 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3144.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3159.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
所以這次的修法會照上一次的修法就是這樣讓他輕重失衡那違反了比例原則憲法規定的你要符合公共利益結果我們上一次的修法是判9年的可以選判緩刑的不能選判一顆罰金的可以選判緩刑的不能選判重的人可以選判輕的人不能選 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3168.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3178.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
所以這次的修法不是要幫誰去解套不是也不是什麼鬆綁在上一次修法以前 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3179.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3200.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
緩刑本來就可以選 是上次才給他改成緩刑不能選是上次才改成9年可以選 緩刑不能選是上一次的修法 把一顆罰金可以選 緩刑不能選把重罪可以選 輕罪不能選 是上次修法改成這樣子的 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3201.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3223.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
所以這一次其實只是要單純的改正不合理的有可能會違憲的讓這個法律的制定條文自相矛盾的輕重失衡的違反比例原則的給它改回來而不是我們是要改正這樣的一個不合理也不是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3226.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3243.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
只是只要不是犯特定列舉的罪名的不是第一款到第六款的也不是被判重罪的當法官給他緩刑的時候沒有理由說你限制他不能參選修法的目的是在兼顧被選舉權憲法保障的被選舉權還有公共意義之間的維護的平衡這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3250.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3264.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
所以我再一次的請求大家如果你覺得某一種罪判了這樣子還可以選有時候是問題是出在司法院有時候問題不是在於選罷法有時候是你覺得說為什麼蘇委員還起訴有問題的可能是檢察官那你說高鴻安貪污治罪條例 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3274.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3289.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
貪污治罪條例的本來就不能選第二款而我們修的是一到六款以外的一般刑事犯罪的會變成什麼狀況 會變成說譬如說我在馬路上跟人商量然後你的公然侮辱罪判你 你這沒什麼好吧 緩刑三個月如果你剛好定驗的時候是參選權你就沒有資格 你就沒有資格去登記參選 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3303.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3331.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
就好像是說你發生車禍輕傷但對方也告你了但你們後來和解了但也給你緩刑六個月或是一年啊你也不能參選可是你說剛才邱梅發生車禍就不能參選然後那個犯七年以上重罪的然後他判九年的可以參選這個也有恐怕有一點不公平之處啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3332.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3342.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
所以我們就這個本意來講所謂的緩刑就是法官認為你不用關不用嚴格給你處分然後也罰錢也不用就是給你自新的一個機會讓你改過這種狀況你說完全剝奪他的參選資格和權利我想這個可能就是矯枉有點過正了因為在三年以前在上一次的修法以前並不是這樣子的謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3371.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3373.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
我們請內政部 劉施放部長報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3385.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3405.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
主席各位委員女士先生大家好首先對於各位委員在內政業務推動上的關注與指導表示由衷的感謝那今天內政委員會審查大院委員所提有關總統選罷法及公職選罷法修正草案計18案那內政部應邀列席報告深感榮幸 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3408.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3426.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
以下呢做簡單的說明如下第一個有關於提案將選舉權年齡下修至18歲的部分內政部原則尊重有關林委員怡瑾張委員雅琳范委員雲柯委員之恩以及陳委員金輝等人分別提案修正公職選罷法第14條以及總統選罷法第11條第23條及第117條將選舉投票年齡連署總統副總統候選人年齡門檻 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3438.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3453.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
由20歲下修至18歲以及明定施行市期等節如果立法院對於將選舉權年齡下修至18歲具有修憲及修法共識內政部原則尊重另外有關於在 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3454.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3472.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
教育委員會裡面所討論以及通過大院通過的在青年基本法在黨團協商的時候通過為了積極實現18歲公民權的願景立法院應該研議進行修憲程序並且完備相關法制的附帶決議也請委員並同參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3474.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3487.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
第二大項有關提案排除受緩刑宣告行刑權離於時效消滅以及受異形處分者不得參選的限制與貫徹清廉參選之立法意旨是否相符一再審酌 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3489.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3511.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
有關陳委員喻貞民眾黨黨團林委員淑芬以及翁委員小林等人分別提案修正總統選罷法及公職選罷法第26條第9款增列排除受緩刑宣告者不得登記為候選人之限制一節因為現行規定是為了回應社會對青年參選的期待並且經過立法委員充分討論所為的修法 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3513.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3529.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
如果再將現行規定放寬跟本條條文貫徹青年參選的立法意旨是否相符建議委員應再審酌另有關林委員淑芬及歐委員小林提案排除行刑權因離於時效消滅者不得參選之規定在112年修法當時是基於維護選舉的公平性 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3535.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3563.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
避免候選人利用行刑權離於時效規避法律限制參選是否放寬建請在於審酌另外有關於民眾黨黨團提案增列排除受異形處分者不得登記為候選人之限制一節因為異形處分僅僅是有期徒刑執行方式之替代手段如果沒有執行完畢自應視為有期徒刑執行未必將其列入但書允許登記為候選人之合理性有待商榷 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3564.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3592.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
第三大項有關提案增列懲犯預備賄選罪終身不得參選之規定建議審慎考量林委員已僅提案修正總統選罷法及公職選罷法第26條第三款增列懲犯預備賄選罪經有罪判刑確定者不得登記為候選人一節查總統選罷法及公職選罷法有關會選預備範部分其刑則均為一年以下有期徒刑 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3593.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3618.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
限制懲犯預備賄選罪終身不得參選建議審慎考量第四大項增列懲犯詐房條例之罪不得參選之規定基於候選人資格公平性考量本部原則尊重有關翁委員小林提案修正選舉總統選罷法及公職選罷法第26條第5款增列懲犯詐欺犯罪危害條例之罪 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3619.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3646.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
經有罪判刑確定者不得參選之規定一節公職選罷法相關規定係於112年6月9日公布施行而詐欺犯罪違害條例則是在113年7月31日公布施行針對刑法第339條之四加重其刑責基於候選人資格公平性考量如大院具有修法共識本部原則尊重第五有關提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3647.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3661.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
修正開放原住民自由登記為原住民或行政區域選舉區域候選人有待擬據社會共識盧元志強提案修正公職選罷法第24條之一增列具原住民身份之 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3662.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3679.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
選舉人得就原住民或行政區域選舉區選擇其一登記一節就系指原住民身份之選舉人得自行決定登記為原住民或行政區域選舉區選舉人亦或僅變更候選人資格建議先予釐清 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3680.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3705.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
基於原住民之身份及席次受法律特別保障如果修法使具原住民身份之選舉人得自行選擇登記為原住民選舉區或行政區域選舉區選舉人是否符合原住民參政權保障意旨予以審酌又僅允許原住民單項選擇恐有公平性問題且牽涉層面廣泛應先拟據社會共識 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3707.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
3723.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
第六大項有關提案修正公職選罷法施行細則由中選會定之基於現行選政選務分立運作無礙建議仍維持現行規定徐委員新迎提案修正公職選罷法第133條旨在推動選政選務合一然而按112年6月9日修正公佈之內政部組織法 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
3731.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
3752.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
及明定選舉罷免政策與制度之規定由內政部主管且現行選政選務意見均有充分交流運作上並無摯礙建議仍維持現行規定以上簡要說明敬請各位委員指教謝謝請中選會選務處王曉穎處長報告法務處法政處 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
3768.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
3789.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
好我們請中選會法政處蔡署長報告主席各位委員大家早今天貴委員會開會審查大院委員及台灣民眾黨黨團所提公職選罷法及總統選罷法修正草案本會應要列席報告自感榮幸僅就委員所提草案提出相關報告 敬請各位委員指教 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
3790.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
3815.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
第一点有关原住民身份选举权人同种公职人员选举得就原住民或行政区域选举区选择其一登记部分草案条文增订的目的细谓提升我国原住民之参政权益宪法征修条文第4条及地方制度法第33条规定细谓保障原住民之政治参与对于原住民立法委员及地方民意代表选举分别定有原住民 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
3816.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
3820.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
應選名額之規定依公職選罷法的第24條的規定選舉人年滿23歲得於其行使選舉權之選舉區登記為公職人員選舉候選人同法第16條規定原住民公職人員選舉 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
3832.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
3856.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
以具有原住民身份並有前條資格之有選舉權人為選舉人另外同法第35條第36條也規定區域選出之民意代表名額計算所依據之人口數與有原住民名額時應扣除原住民人口數依照上開的規定候選人應需具有選舉人的資格原住民僅得登記為原住民公職人員選舉候選人 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
3857.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
3858.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
第二大點 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
3885.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
3911.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
選舉和罷免權行使年齡修正為18歲憲法第130條規定中華民國國民年滿20歲者有依法選舉之權除本憲法及法律別有規定者外年滿23歲者有依法被選舉之權有關選舉權行使年齡修正為18歲大院呈於111年3月25日三讀通過18歲公民權的修憲案 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
3912.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
3939.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
經公告期滿並於11年11月26日辦理投票投票結果未通過有關選舉權年齡及總統副總統連署人年齡調降為18歲對於促進青年政治參與及權益具有正面的注意利益良善選舉權行使年齡的修正是否應該透過修憲程序辦理建議應先與釐清本會尊重兩項選辦法主管機關內政部的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
3940.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
3966.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
第三大點修正候選人消極資格的規定有關排除緩刑期間行刑權因履歷時效消滅不得參選的部分現行條文規定判處有其徒刑以上之刑確定於受緩刑期間或行刑權履歷時效消滅者是在112年修正的時候所謂的一個修正規定這個規定是不得登記為候選人原本有他的立法的一個目的 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
3968.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
3993.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
違依地方制度法第79條第1項第4款規定犯同條項第2款及第3款以外之罪受有其徒刑以上刑事判決確定者判決確定受緩刑之宣告者該民選公職人員不予解除其職權或職務從而與緩刑期間是否限制其登記為候選人是能有審慎斟酌的一個疑慮另外行刑權利實效部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
3994.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4019.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
行刑權時效制度定於刑法第84條行刑權因於法定期間內未執行而消滅免除刑法之執行行刑權未法定期間內執行原因不一未兼顧其參政權是否限制終身不得參選亦有討論的空間其次是排除異刑的處分部分受有其徒刑以上刑事判決確定如果有未執行異科罰金或不得異服社會勞動 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4021.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4046.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
其情節與同條款判處有其徒刑以上刑之確定尚未執行執行未必相同如得登記為候選人是有位疑第三第三點是有關增列懲犯詐欺犯罪危害方式條例之罪不得參選的一個部分現行兩項選罷法都已經有增列刑法339條之四之罪者不得登記為候選人那草案第26條第5款增列懲犯 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4049.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4077.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
炸房條例之罪不得登記的候選人的一個部分上開這個炸房條例之罪系就犯刑法第339條之四之罪特別規定加重法定刑的一個樣態以及代表人、代理人、受僱人或其他從業人員因執行業務犯詐欺犯罪者之併法規定為避免適用爭議以明文規定之修法方向應屬可行第四小點有關增列會選及企業會選之易被犯不得參選的一個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4078.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4097.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
增訂懲犯總統選霸法第84條第三項以及公職選霸法第97條第三項等罪的預備犯為消極適合條件本會尊重大院的立法權為因釋設人民參政權與你就是否過度限制人民參政權審慎考量第四大點是有關選霸法施行細則由中選會 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4099.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4126.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
定制的一個規定草案條文修正為公職選辦法施行細則由中選會單獨定制依內政部組織法第二條規定內政部掌理選舉罷免政策與制度之規劃本會組織法第二條規定本會掌理選舉罷免公民投票事務之綜合規劃及辦理等事項維持現行條文符合上海內政部及本會組織法的規定並使權者相符以上報告進行各位委員指教 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4134.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4163.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
其他單位的報告請委員自行參閱並刊登公報現在進行詢答委員諮詢前原理做幾點宣告一每位委員發言時間本會委員五分鐘必要時則延長兩分鐘非本會委員五分鐘上午十點三十分截止發言登記二因今天法案處理本次會議就不處理臨時提案請問各位委員有沒有意見沒有好那現在進行詢答我們請第一位登記的張志倫委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4172.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4180.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
好謝謝主席各位委員各位官員大家早有請劉世芳部長以及中選會王小林處長 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4195.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4219.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
好 謝謝好 今天我們內政委員會排審公職人選舉罷免法以及總統副總統選舉罷免法等多項法案的修正草案那主要重點就是落實七年章政想要把選舉門檻的年齡下修到18歲以及檢討候選人的一些消極資格包含這個受緩刑宣告者是否可以參選 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4220.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4231.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
的一些規定大家可以做討論以及多元參政原住民參選選區的彈性規則不過今天我首先還是要先請教就教我們中選會的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4232.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4249.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
因為立法院在3月14號已經完成審查通過中選會主委游盈隆等四人的人事案那三個禮拜過去了行政院公然行政帶墮現在還沒有完成這個交接跟就職程序我要請教中選會 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4251.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4265.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
現在目前已經從去年的11月3號到現在今年現在是116年的4月是不是中選會在這幾個月都沒有辦法到法定門檻來去開中選會的委員會議請回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4270.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4298.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
中選會代表報告那跟委員報告那中選會是依照中選會組織法以及會議規則的規定來辦理委員會的召開那從去年的11月到目前的確我們是以委員選務座談會的方式來辦理這個相關的事務的這個報告事項那有關說這個新任委員會就任那到底是什麼時候才能就任那這邊提供一些資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4299.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4324.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
那就是依照114年10月31日本會622次委員會議審議通過的今年年底的選舉工作進行程序表的規定那中選會要在今年的8月20號發布選舉公告那這個公告裡面要載明應選名額競選經費最高金額等等那8月27日要發布候選登記公告那要載明候選應備具的表件保證金數額等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4325.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4346.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
那這些公告的內容保證金的數額這些都要提請委員會議來討論後才能通過然後才能刊登在各種選舉公告上那所以在此之前應該要及早來召開委員會議那還有本會因為未召開委員會議目前有台北市等六個選舉委員會下屆委員的人選尚未確認 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4350.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4372.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
所以中選會期盼說新任的委員可以及早就任然後召開委員會議來審議各項重要的選務工作事項那以利年底的公職人選舉的選務工作可以順利進行以上好謝謝王處長王處長把我下一個問題也問過了所以的確行政院現在公然怠惰行政怠惰導致這個延遲了五個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4373.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4399.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
這個中選會的會議我們重要的委員會都沒有辦法開立喔那這個整個提名的作業喔這個任命的作業也延遲喔所以也會影響到中選會的一些作業包含明年度的選舉等等的事項你剛才特別提到包含是地方選委會的人事案無法任命以及這個今年度九合一大選今年度的很多這個地方的 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4400.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4407.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
這個選委會的人是無法任命 以及今年年底九合一大選很多的事項會無法進行 您說的是這樣的意思嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4409.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4434.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
是若干的事物要經過委員會討論後有沒有明確一點的是大概什麼事物例如說這個競選經費最高金額那如果沒有辦法這個東西沒有辦法提出來的話那會不會影響到今年年底九合一大選這個應該是會影響到那請問中選會有沒有什麼的補償的措施還是一定要等到這些人事案都提名完畢那依照中選會的補資法的規定那應該是要召開委員會來討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4439.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4467.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
好 謝謝 那請劉部長部長我知道中選會的業務非屬您的管轄範圍可是針對現在這樣子中選會影響到明年九合一大選的選務的相關的作為不管人事提名或者是未來整整的選舉的事務您是不是有什麼樣的建議可以給行政院來去做執行報告委員因為中選會的業務確實非內政部所主管我想在這個地方我沒有辦法帶中選會來回應 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4468.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4494.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
好 謝謝 謝謝部長好 那我再請處長處長 所以你剛剛講到一個重點這個行政院這個沒有依照他應該要去做的來去做這個任命的部分其實會影響到明年的九合一的大選今年的九合一大選那我本席來這裡要特別提醒其實還有就是有關於公投或者是未來我們很多這個立法委員如果去選縣市首長未來的補選 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4497.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4522.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
這兩件事情是不是未來也是需要中選會的委員會開會才能做出這樣的決議這兩個事項都是需要經過委員會來討論謝謝所以我必須要在這邊還是要嚴肅的講行政院現在不依照程序來去提名現在我們立法院所通過的人事案其實對今年的九合一大選會有非常嚴重的影響以及 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4523.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4537.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
會沒收我們大家人民所期待以及重視的公投以及未來如果這個地方民意代表的補選的問題喔都會有非常大的影響好謝謝謝謝組長那接下來我再請教劉部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4539.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4559.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
部長那今天在討論的有關於這個我們的選罷法的一些問題那討論到這個選罷法裡面法官實務上會給予緩刑的一個宣告那就是說這個案情是輕微或是具備這個改過自新的可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4560.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4584.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
那我想要請教這個部長您剛有特別提到您對這個如果判緩刑不應該剝奪人民參政權應該符合比例原則你這邊您的看法是怎麼樣比如說是犯輕罪比如說可能就是剛剛很多委員講的只是一些吵架被判緩刑那是不是這個部分你是支持是可以未來還是有參政權 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4585.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4607.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
報告委員我們剛已經表達過我們的意見就是我們考慮這個法律的橫平性還有它的穩定性所以現在如果現在就是要修正但是修正所謂的輕罪到底是多輕或者是緩刑到底是什麼叫做緩刑的這個規定它是不是仍然是屬於法務部或者司法院要來做解釋我們會比較清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4609.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4626.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
否則它只是一個模糊的概念的話我們內政部或是中選會當成選政跟選務機關在執行層面上就會落入一個模糊地帶我想這樣反而不好所以我很支持剛剛幾位委員在發表意見的時候就是說是不是我們也可以請教一下這個法學界的代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4627.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4643.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
他們是不是可以就這樣的部分做一下公聽會的表達那這樣子我們未來在做比較好的修正條文的時候比較不會落入兩端那這個清跟眾之間的所屬我們反而不曉得如何做決定好 謝謝部長因為時間的關係最後一題最近非常重要的一個議題要來請教 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4645.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4664.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
最近這個在社會上發生非常多的獨駕事件那我看你有開記者會針對獨駕來去做要加強來查緝的部分那我特別提出來在從這個我們去年這個喪屍煙灘依託彌子我們把它提升到二級毒品以後其實獨駕的問題還是非常嚴重在去年的11月20號 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4667.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4685.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
這個我們現在獨駕的整個整個案件量其實有高達3000多件其實一天的獨駕大概就已經有這個二三十件了所以發生的頻率非常的高那本席想要來請教我們部長的就是說你有在新聞報導中有提到 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4685.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4714.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
就是說你想要來把這個獨駕相關的一些罰則或者是一些預防的措施來把它做加強所以我在請教部長是不是可以現在因為我覺得這非常重要就是未來有關於獨駕也是應該是要零容忍是不是有一些預防性羈押的一些方式我們這個會期可以來討論或者是說如果是獨駕累犯的話的刑責不能一顆罰金或者是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4715.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4733.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
獨駕的話 同車的乘客就像酒駕一樣也要連坐連乘法的相關的規定是不是可以請部長謝謝張委員的關心我們內政部的警政署跟法務部還有台灣高檢署有在研議更強力的法治作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4734.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4755.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
那所以呢我們的建議就是說法務部要修正刑法來提高獨駕的刑責然後同時呢對於累犯或者是獨駕肇事者要制定一個強化申請羈押以及不得義科罰金等措施並且朝著不確定故意殺人罪方向來偵辦但是呢我們內政部的警政署只能提建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4756.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4776.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
所以我們也建議司法院要修訂這個刑事訴訟法的第101條之一將獨駕納入可預防性羈押的案例也就是說未來大概內政部跟法務部要跟司法院一起來努力才可以達到剛剛委員所提到的我們怎麼樣加重刑責然後來遏止獨駕 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
4778.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
4804.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
好 那我請教部長 這個法案您這邊會來協調各部會這個會期有辦法 還是說報告委員 我們剛有提過了就是我們有召開一個跨部會的合作機制但是修法的機關呢 還是會以法務部為主因為法務部他們在刑法的這個提升獨駕的刑責或者是說對於獨駕的這個累犯的部分的話呢這個都是要法務部跟司法院一起來合作那我們會完全配合 請教一下 你們有會議記錄嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
4806.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
4824.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
我想會議紀錄是屬於內部的文書我們現在把結論已經跟委員報告了好那我需要說這個會期我們盡快來把這個東西往前推行謝謝部長我們接下來請蘇喬惠委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
4836.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
4837.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
謝謝主席,我們請劉思芳、劉部長好,劉部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
4843.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
4869.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
委員好部長好部長我其實蠻意外今天就又要開始來討論這個公職委員選舉罷免法的修正那因為其實在內政委員會這個法律案真的是修蠻多次的那其實我在立法院的三屆裡面也討論過非常多次尤其是光是這個18歲的選舉權真的真的就是討論非常非常多次那今天大家可以看到我們這個我們的提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
4870.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
4892.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
不分潮也不分藍綠其實各黨團各個委員都有提案說哎呀現在世界的潮流啊等等之類的都是應該是18歲那可是我們的國家因為憲法的規定到20歲才能夠有選舉罷免的權利所以我們應該要來修法是藍綠都有喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
4892.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
4916.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
可是你回過頭去看在2022年的時候當時在提出這個憲法的修正案的時候希望能夠降低年輕人的選舉罷免權利的時候其實在國民黨的基層當時我不敢說是全黨啦但是當時在國民黨的基層曾經有一種聲音是要說這個是公投在綁大選這是有政治的操作那所以我們要拒領公投票 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
4917.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
4941.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
那也很遺憾的其實在2022年的時候那一次的修憲公投雖然贊成要把選舉投票的權利這個年齡要下修到18歲的贊成票是多過於反對票的可是很可惜的投票門檻就沒有到所以當時修憲沒有成功那是我們最接近把選罷法的年齡下修的一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
4942.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
4958.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
那可是今天憲法依然還沒有被修正完成那我們今天要來修正選舉罷免法當中的投票年齡選罷的年齡部長你怎麼看這個事件謝謝委員的指教委員非常關心18歲的公民權 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
4959.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
4975.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
確實沒有錯所有的委員呢對於在選罷法裡面修正下修投票年齡到18歲幾乎跨黨派都完全贊成但是會最主要是講他的程序剛剛委員有提到這個程序的話就是在包括在剛剛修正通過的 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
4976.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5005.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
基本法裡面青年基本法裡面都有提到希望這個該法實行之日起兩年內要完備相關的法制但是呢他的指定對象並不是指包括行政院在內的其他部會而是大院也就是立法院那剛剛所提到的在上一次呢立法院的幾乎是全院的委員通過把這個修憲版本送公民投票也是公民複決但是公民複決呢最主要是全部的選舉的那個人啊要過半 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5007.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5024.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
就修憲門檻嘛是 那就是修憲門檻太高但是我們不能因為修憲門檻太高然後就提到說那這樣子我們是不是不要管憲法了就直接管這個青年基本法跟管選罷法我想我們問過很多不同的意見的人包括憲法學者也有各種不同的說法 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5025.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5042.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
所以剛剛有幾位委員提到說有沒有可能在內政委員會再辦一下這樣的公聽會大家一起來辯論用什麼樣子的方式會最好我想這樣對於我們對於回應18歲的公民權可能會是最完善而且比較合乎我們台灣的憲法或是選罷法的相關規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5043.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5061.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
所以部長您是基於現在內政部長的身份您再一次的表示其實我們的選舉權年齡是否要調整因為憲法有規定所以如果要調整的話您個人認為是應該要從憲法來修正開始做起如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5061.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5081.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
不是這樣 不是從修憲開始的話 那麼至少也要先有公聽會大家來討論意見 拟據共識 然後才來決定是否在不動憲法的情況下 修正選罷法 您的意見是這樣嗎我不敢這樣子做判斷齁 但是我從這個青年基本法的附帶決議裡面 那當時是各個黨團協商的結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5084.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5109.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
是希望說立法院在完備的相關法制包括立法院應該研議進行修憲程序這兩個部分都要能夠完備所以修憲你怎麼沒有態度不是沒有態度我的意思是因為你不敢這樣說我剛有提到了上一次修憲沒有成功最主要的理由是因為公投的門檻很高那但是呢修憲的主要機關是在立法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5110.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5129.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
那我站在行政的立場 反對政部的立場 我沒有辦法幫立法院說話所以我是覺得說立法院的各個黨團 是否研議修憲的程序是怎麼樣的研議法 或者是說要怎麼樣進行完備的相關法制包括修我們的選罷法 我們都完全尊重 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5130.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5146.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
好不然我想是這樣啦我們兩個的意見我們兩個的立場態度意見應該是一致的就是台灣的選舉罷免的權利其實應該是要把年齡下修因為我們可以看到我們其實在18歲我們再來複習一次在台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5148.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5166.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
你看看我們的18歲可以做的事情有太多了我們18歲可以做的事情不管是民法刑法上面我們都是完全的行為能力人嘛然後我們在各式各樣的這種條件上面也都可以甚至是我們在公投在決定重大的議題上面我們也通通都可以來做討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5167.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5190.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
連同性婚姻啊這個等等的這麼重大的價值的判斷我們都可以來做討論但是你要決定民意代表或行政首長竟然不行這就是一個非常有趣的矛盾點你已經被社會認可是一個完全的行為能力人甚至可以做價值的判斷但你不能夠決定你的行政首長你不能決定代表你的民意代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5191.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5219.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
好 那如果從世界的趨勢來看的話整個東亞也只剩下新加坡跟台灣是還維持在20歲其他的國家通通都已經是18歲了好 那所以我當然是贊成我們的選舉年齡可以選辦的年齡選舉被選舉的年齡可以下修到18歲所以我相信部長也是一樣不過看起來部長你基於你的立場和身分所以你不便對立法院的程序還有立法院的進程多做表態 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5219.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5242.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
那我剛剛第一個問你的是說其實在2022年的時候因為雖然大家各黨各派都提出了修憲全院也都通過了但是在坊間進行推動是否修憲是否修正憲法規定的投票年齡的時候其實各黨派的氣氛不一樣啊那我想部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5242.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5257.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
也不適合也沒有打算在這個備詢台上面做表態我可以理解但我最重要的我今天利用這個時間其實是再一次的跟社會大眾溝通我想全社會應該都同意我們的選舉年齡 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5259.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5273.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
其實應該要下修了那不管是哪一種程序要被啟動不管是從公聽會要啟動或者是甚至再啟動一次修憲的程序我想其實大家都應該要有共識才對所以我是希望啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5274.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5292.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
這個未來如果是部長這邊當我們在推動的時候或者立法院 不管是立法院啟動也好啦或者是內政部這邊還有想到其他的方式來啟動的時候我想我們這次應該是要積極一點用更積極的態度來處理這個長年多年的問題部長你同意嗎是 謝謝委員執教 我們樂觀其成好 謝謝部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5303.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5318.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
我們下一位請張宏祿委員發言我請部長好 麻煩劉部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5324.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5347.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
委員好來 部長我們今天大家有討論這個18歲要修選罷法的這個問題其實這個我們在之前修青年基本法等等的然後公投等等這個問題都有討論過我先請問部長如果我們修了這個選舉罷免法 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5354.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5381.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
是可以解決青年18歲就可以參與選舉罷免創制複決的權利嘛對不對在法制上面恐怕還是欠缺憲法這一塊那其實選罷法裡面修正以後當然是可以造型但是還是會有欠缺所以社會上的共識還沒有形成或是憲法法學學者還沒有共識形成的時候我覺得我們不宜下定論 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5383.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5409.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
我要問的問題是說如果你只解決這些問題其實最根本的解決方法我們大家都知道嘛就是修憲嘛就可以解決修憲然後公投修憲後的對啊就是修憲後的這個是最基本解決的嘛我們今天如果只有處理這一塊還有很多的權利他們沒有辦法拿到對不對我簡單舉一個例子就好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5410.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5416.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
如果你修憲公投你修憲之後18歲可不可以參加國家考試 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5419.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5445.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
18歲可不可以參加國家考試好像不行可以吧可以啊因為你已經下修18歲啦他已經他有這些成年的資格啦就當公務員對啊考試服工是可以啊對不對如果你修憲過後你18歲而且很多國家也是18歲就可以就可以啦對不對我舉這個就是一個很明顯的例子就是說我們都不反對18歲有公民權 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5446.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5457.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
但不是這樣子挖一塊補一塊挖一塊補一塊最主要的是我們如果修憲之後很多的權力他可以一次倒位對不對部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5460.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5477.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
應該是說除了選罷法以外你要把憲法下面跟18歲的公民權應該有的權利義務一致來考量那這樣子的話對於我們賦予年輕人他所有的整體的完整的公民權益的保障才會比較完整 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5478.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5505.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
對啦 我的意思就是這樣嘛你既然要18歲 你就是有公民權你應該要給他的權利優惠一次到位我的意思就是這樣嘛那我們都不反對啊那都不反對的情況下 你今天只處理這一個我覺得還是掛一漏萬 還有很多那我們當然不反對 但是我們還是要在這邊要講要走正途啦 做實事啦要嘛 就是修憲一次把它解決 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5509.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5522.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
我的看法是這樣啦不知道部長你覺得勒是 我想我們對於年輕人希望有18歲的公民權大概每個黨的立委都贊成但是這一次的這個選罷法的修正案 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5524.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5549.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
除了民眾黨黨團是異形的這個部分以外其他的國民黨黨團或民進黨黨團並沒有黨團的修正案出來所以我想說可能各個黨團在考量到是不是屬於憲法下面的要保障18歲公民權還有很多有待這個心格的部分有待商量所以我們才會建議說是不是可以透過公聽的方式來聽聽各種不同的法學者的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5550.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5570.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
對啦 法律的程序的完備也是一件我們要考量的事情這是另外程序上的要考量那另外 部長如果啦 我們在這個會期如果啦 18歲就這個選罷法我們如果修正18歲 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5572.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5598.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
預估啦預估啦年底多出來的這個選舉人口大概好幾十萬吧應該四五十萬有吧報告委員你講的沒有錯選舉人預估增加四十一萬一千七百三十一人如果我們下修十八歲那其中六都所佔的比例非常的高也就是說我們考慮到說選舉年齡馬上下修然後馬上用到今年年底的選舉的時候呢其實對於每個黨 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5599.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5602.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
這個我覺得我要問的就是因為今天中選會有沒有但選政機構也是內政部嘛那選務當然是中選會跟地方選委會要去處理的但 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5618.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5629.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
我個人認為你忽然多出了這麼多這個選舉的作業期程來不來得及啊這個可能要問中選會那個中選會我剛請教的如果說一下子增加了那麼多好幾十萬 四十幾萬人那你們的造冊你們的這些東西來不來得及 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5648.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5670.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
報告委員 那個選舉人名冊造冊依法是在投票日的前20天要完成那前20天的話那今年是在11月28日投票那如果是在這之前的話應該是如果在戶籍登記資料上都有這些增加了選舉人的資料這應該是可以完成的但是這個會增加了很多的選舉經費例如說選舉票然後這些部分還有選舉公報這些這些經費都會增加以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5677.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5705.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
除了經費等等增加之外啊你的投開票所的配置你的什麼你不用重新檢討嗎這個部分因為因應這個投票人數的增加那這部分都需要再檢討包括說投開票所是否要增設那投開票所裡面的工作人員是不是要增加這些都是要一併檢討不是啦這一併檢討所以我說啊這些增加的什麼這些你認為忽然這樣子的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5707.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5726.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
地方選舉委員會有沒有能力負擔這可能會比較倉促一些會比較倉促一些會比較倉促一些嘛對嘛其實有辦過實際選舉的人都知道如果忽然這樣這個整個民政體系的壓力會非常非常的大 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5727.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5754.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
這個造冊不是那個隨便寫一寫的然後你的選票運製你的投開票所的設置什麼要重新檢討耶甚至你的投票箱也有可能要增加設置是不是啊是這方面是是嘛所以在這種情況之下你們如果有遇見到如果有這種你們現在開始作業來得及嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5756.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
5780.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
何志強請問你不要到時候選舉有問題喔來得及嗎目前如果說能及早知道這個修法通過的與否的話那現在開始啟動檢討作業應該是還可以來得及你確定喔你有跟地方縣市選委會溝通過了嗎你有去問過他們的意見了嗎目前我們還沒有跟地方選委會對啊那你幫人家回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
5782.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
5806.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
縣市選委會你都沒有問過你幫人家回答啊出了問題責任你要扛還是他們扛這個部分我們會再檢討不是啊你剛剛回答的你要檢討什麼啊是你剛剛回答的餒對不對啊如果有問題你要負責任喔這個部分我們會再重新做來評估你不能這樣講對不對我是在地方辦過選舉的人餒 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
5809.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
5826.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
對不對 我知道的那個複雜欸啊你這樣隨便一句話你就丟給人家地方選務機構對不對啊出了問題他扛啊你就這樣一句話我覺得不對餒對不對地方選務機關中選會要求我們做什麼我們一定全力以赴 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
5827.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
5853.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
但以我的經驗像這種重大的事情或是要這樣事先都要請他們大家來開會來一起聊有什麼問題吧是不是這是標準的吧是這樣子是嘛對嘛所以在這裡立法院回答我認為不應該這麼草率這麼隨便不能把責任推給別人到時候有問題有沒有我們公文上面都怎麼寫的是他們辦不好我就這樣不負責任不對的 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
5867.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
5880.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
好我們下一位請王洪威委員發言好謝謝主席我請內政部劉部長還有我們中選會王處長好部長以及處長請 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
5889.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
5910.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
好 部長 處長今天我們主要是聚焦在選罷法的修正那當然有不同的版本那其中有關於就是被判緩刑的期間是不得參選的部分剛才我們已經聽到民進黨的委員林淑芬委員做出了她的提案的說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
5910.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
5925.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
那剛才呢我也有仔細聆聽我們幾位民進黨委員大概都是聚焦在18歲以下的這個選舉權那比較沒有去觸及到這個緩刑是不是要卡參選的問題那所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
5928.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
5953.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
有關於這個的修法現在看起來包含三黨都有提案那我也很仔細看了一下我們包含內政部跟中選會所提出來的報告以及剛才劉部長提出來的報告感覺上對這一部分我們內政部還是有保留的 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
5954.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
5976.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
但是呢我看到中選會所以在這一點我也請劉部長來聽聽看我有仔細看中選會的報告裡面的第四頁也許請處長可以做更詳細的說明那有關就是說我們在判處這個緩刑的部分到底可不可以說不能夠去登記為候選人 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
5978.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6003.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
中選會提出了另外一個就是地方制度法也就是說我們現在地方制度法的規定因為第一個你可能是在被判緩席期間你不得去登記參選但是同時有一個狀況就是比如說以我個人來講我現在是民意代表我現在是立法委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6004.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6026.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
假使我被判緩刑的處分 那我會不會因此而消失我這個公職人員的資格呢按照我們目前地方制度法的規定 請問一下 我有沒有 就是我被判緩刑的話是不是就要被解除我的職權或職務 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6028.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6053.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
我們中選會中選會可不可以先做答覆因為這是你們的報告是報告委員那原本現行112年說規定說緩刑不得參選是說為了端正罪行的一個觀念就是說對這我知道我現在問你按照現在的地方制度法如果是依照地方制度法的規定民選的公職人員那如果說 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6054.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6064.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
判處這個79條第一項第四款前兩款那就是等於說第二款跟第三款以外之罪的話他如果說 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6065.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6087.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
如果說原本現行的規定是說如果未受緩刑宣告的話是要解除職權跟職務的那換句話說如果受緩刑宣告我就不必解除我的職務吧這個就是說當然緩刑宣告可不可以登記為候選人這是一個政策的選擇我知道我知道我剛才已經講得非常清楚嘛我只要以現行的地方制度法規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6088.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6118.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
我是現在民選的公職人員然後我被判這個宣告緩刑然後我會不會因此而必須去撤出我的職務現在的地方制度法非常明確的規定不會嘛對不對不會因為他如果受緩刑宣告的話他就不會被解除職務好這個我這個謝謝中選會的說明因為我剛才就是說你們的報告有提到現行的地方制度法 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6118.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6120.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
所以部長我為什麼提到我們中選會的報告也就是說這個提案我剛才講這是一個三黨都有相關的提案第二個中選會也提出來現在地方制度法的規定所以我覺得我們不可能一國兩制嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6140.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6169.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
也不可能一個民意代表或者民選的公職人員他有兩個制度也就是說他如果被判緩刑他就不能夠去登記參選但是我是現任的現任被判緩刑反而不用解除職務這個中間事實上確實有漢格的地方以及邏輯不通的地方那另外呢我也要特別提到除了林淑芬委員她剛才有 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6170.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6192.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
講到很多他的提案說明之外包含莊瑞雄委員他現在也是民進黨團的幹事長當時在修法的時候他有一段說法他說總統跟副總統有很多的特權在參選的限制上比較嚴格所以才會特別另立總統副總統的選罷法 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6194.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6217.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
否則的話他就按照選罷法就好啦大家一體適用就好啦那所以他說至於選罷法因為你規範的還下至村里長上至縣市首長立委那這些呢他跟總統和副總統的權利是沒有相對應的所以他覺得如果通通比照總統和副總統的選罷法他認為這樣的立法理由是說不通的 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6222.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6238.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
那當然專業選委員因為他現在是幹事長他當然以他的身份他不適宜去提案但是我要講的就是說現在緩行卡參選其實有他諸多不合理之處這個並不是單一黨派去提出來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6242.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6257.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
另外我也想特別提到一個案例就是在之前立法委員選舉的時候台南市議員王家珍他當時是被助理費 辦助理費去辦他 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6257.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6277.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
可是後來其實法官發現他沒有把任何一毛錢放到自己的口袋當時王嘉臻的助理費是因為他有兩個助理因為他是被法院強制處分他為了要照顧他的助理的安家生活 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6278.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6301.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
所以呢他提高了另外的助理的費用然後去補貼這兩位的助理因為否則的話他所有的這個他的薪水會被做強制執行所以法官也認為說他其實沒有任何貪污的問題因為他沒有拿任何的一毛錢放到他自己的口袋那但是呢法官因為辦了嘛最後呢就 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6303.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6309.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
還是就是判他緩刑當時應該是用所謂的就是偽照文書因為沒有辦法用助理費來辦他嘛因為他沒有貪污好 結果呢王嘉珍當時要去參選立法委員的時候就因為他當時其實可以選擇他可以去議科罰金他去繳的罰金也沒事可是他認為我無罪啊我為什麼要去繳這個罰金結果呢 他就因此 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6331.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6338.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
而被判這個就是判緩刑而且被剝奪了選舉權所以這事實上是非常不合理大家看起來是說喔對啊如果你貪污啊如果你有其他的這個相關的這個違法情形你就不應該登記參選但是王家珍這個就是一個例子你以為他是貪污結果他不是他是照顧他的助理但是呢他因為這樣卡了他參選權 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6359.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6382.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
所以我在這邊要講的就是說我想中選會會去提防地方制度法他已經發現這個問題了我們不可能兩個法律是有漢格的同樣一個人只是一個是在他參選之前被判緩刑你就不能參選另外同樣的人我在擔任這個民選公職人員我就算被判緩刑我也沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6382.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6386.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
沒有傷害我任何的這個職務所以這個中間是有漢格所以我希望內政部把我剛才所講的這些不管中選會的意見或者各黨派的意見或者像王家珍這樣的一個案例 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6399.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6404.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
應該去做通盤檢討而不是面對這個修法的時候就是拒人於千里之外我想這個是必須要針對這個緩行的部分的修法來做一個就是說希望我們內政部能夠從善如流 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6419.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6446.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
那另外就是剛才比較多委員去琢磨的就18歲以下的參政權這個部分剛才部長也一直說各黨派通通都支持那沒有錯在過去這個不管是修法或者公投各黨派通通都是支持的那這一次呢也有幾位委員有提案那其實我要再講一下就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6447.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6448.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
比如說以國民黨內部來說 確實有人跟我講說你們去做這樣的一個主張你們這樣主張 國民黨的支持者 可是年輕人不支持國民黨啊對你的選舉未必有利啊但是 我覺得一個法治 一個就是18歲的參政權 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6468.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6489.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
不應該去涉及任何的一個政黨或者任何一場選舉的利益這邊當然大家都講了就是說以現在國內來說我們在其他的各個這個相關的法律其實18歲都已經擁有很多權利但是呢現在呢看起來就只有投票是有限制的 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6490.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6500.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
那我要講我個人為什麼我強烈的支持18歲可以選舉因為我們這套憲法沒有錯我們這套憲法大概起碼是六七十年前所訂定的憲法當時規定20歲才能夠有選舉權大家想想看那個時候還有多少文盲啊當時的資訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6516.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6532.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
根本不普及當時的教育也不普及如果時隔六七十年我們還抱住這個憲法裡面規定的20歲才能夠去選舉我覺得華天下之大吉真的就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6533.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6535.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
很脫節跟時代太脫節了所以我個人我完全支持這個18歲的一個公民權18歲的選舉權剛才部長有講他說哎呀也不是各個政黨都有提案但是我相信這個提案會得到跨黨派委員的支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6554.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6575.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
這一點完全無庸置疑 我認為完全無庸置疑不管以現階段我們18歲的這個民眾他們所享有的權利之不對等或者是六七十年的憲法當時的整個的環境教育資訊的背景根本跟現在不可同日而語 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6576.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6591.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
當然18歲應該享有選舉權所以我想這一點也是希望不管是有關於就是判緩刑者 宣告緩刑者不應該去剝奪他的一個選舉登記權或者18歲的一個選舉權我認為以內政部來說應該都是去支持的 好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6602.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6608.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
這點我想最後一點點時間部長就是我剛剛講在緩行的部落我剛剛已經講那麼多了對啊對啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6613.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6634.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
謝謝委員的指教有關18歲公民權的部分我想剛剛我已經表達過我也希望說大院能夠研議相關的法治程序那我們都會尊重那有關於緩刑的部分我也跟委員報告一下在中選會的報告裡面他們提到的是地方制度法但是我們今天討論的是有關選罷法所以有關選罷法的部分中選會的立場跟內政部是一樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6639.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6663.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
在同樣的報告案裡面他有提到在緩刑期間是否限制其登記為候選人是仍有審慎斟酌餘地這是剛剛王委員在提問中選會的官員的時候他們所寫的書面報告我們的書面報告也寫得非常的清楚就是本條文是貫徹青年參選的立法意旨 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6663.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6691.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
是否相符一再審酌那既然是有審酌跟斟酌的餘地的話呢我也會覺得說可能各個委員各個不同的面向我們還是有討論的餘地醫院講說所謂青年殘血我剛剛講以王家珍的案例他比如說他是助理費的話那當然可能涉及到這個貪污自罪條例但是後來他根本跟那個沒有關係連法官都認為他沒有任何的一毛錢進入他的口袋 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6692.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6707.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
所以我的意思說今天就不應該有這樣的錯殺條款我們在選政機關大概無法對個案來做任何的評析但是我用這個例子來做因為這個看起來好像是公平的但事實上未盡公平因為現在在會議進行中我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6717.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6737.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
媒體統一採訪的區是不是都一致在後方的媒體區避免在前面會議進行的時候影響到會議的進行不好意思我可以等各位媒體先進腳步移動之後我們再開始那也跟委員會報告我們等李博義召委詢答後休息五分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6747.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6772.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
好 那我們的會議就繼續進行喔 那接下來我們請李貞秀委員發言主席好 我要麻煩有請那個中選會王處長 內政部部長劉世帆上台 謝謝好 請部長跟處長上備選台 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6785.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6800.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
報告主席在昨天行政院院長接受這個立法院大會大院裡面有關內政的質詢的時候他有提到行政院所有的首長沒有義務接受一位不具備有合法資格的立委在立院備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
6801.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
6826.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
這是行政院對憲法的忠誠遵守那我們卓院長在上台之後她也同樣的她是基於她上台是基於對院長主持會議的尊重那站在對面的李貞秀女士並未依法放棄中國國籍中國戶籍完全並不符合兩岸人民關係條例國籍法的規定落實對中華民國的單一效忠 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
6826.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
6845.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
那李女士無法成為一個具有合法資格的中華民國國會議員這個責任是在中國政府而不是台灣政府所以請問劉部長那個陸配是外國人嗎沒辦法回答是不是中華民國收現了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
6850.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
6871.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
OK好那現在我就想說請大家那個我要先問處長請問依據那個中選會組織法中選會委員由行政院長提名經立法院同意後任命制度設計的核心是要確保中選會具備公正性與專業性 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
6873.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
6901.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
不是要淪為政治酬庸或權力交換的工具換言之只要立法院依法完成同意程序行政機關應該要立即依照程序完成任命維持選務機關的正常運作現在的情況是立法院已經通過了中選會的人事案但是行政院卻遲遲未發布人事令 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
6902.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
6920.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
導致中選會那個選委會的委員無法到任本席要請教處長現行憲法及法律體制有沒有任何明確的法律依據可以讓行政院在立法院完成同意程序後拒絕發布人事令 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
6921.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
6933.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
若沒有法律授權 行政院算不算目無法紀擴增行政權力影響己有的法令程序破壞了權力分立的原則處長能回應嗎中選會是獨立的選務機構欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
6947.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
6976.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
抱歉 這個我尊重每一位被尋觀言的發言的權利哇 民進黨大家有所有國人都在看齁今天中選會變成民進黨的中選會了嗎中選會不是一直要維持那個行政中立嗎今天 我先做那個我們詢詢當中如果有程序發言的話應該是在詢答結束之後才有程序發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
6985.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7007.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
現在已經在詢答當中了每一位行政官員無論有沒有發言或沉默都是一種意見的表達我充分尊重每一位官員發言的權利謝謝主席處長所以你認同行政院這樣的做法嗎中選會還算不算獨立的選務機構 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7008.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7038.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
人事令不發布所造成的影響你知道嗎這個問題不僅是程序問題更會實質影響中選會的運作影響人民基本權利的行使本市要進一步確認若中選會人士無法如期到任人民選舉權利和公民投票權等基本憲法保障的參政權利會遭遇到什麼樣的影響那中選會現在是不願意回答還是回答不出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7039.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7067.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
我繼續再請教處長目前在人事未定的情況下候選人保證金數額是否能夠在五月初前如期確定新提出的公投案審查及辦理程序會不會受到影響再來九合一選舉的選務有沒有什麼樣的應變機制來確保不受影響現在回答不出來可以會後給我書面答覆謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7068.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7082.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
本席要呼籲中選會作為選務機關核心的職責是確保選舉與公投制度的穩定運作不能因人事或政治因素產生停滯 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7083.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7112.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
面對目前人事令遲未發布所造成的制度不確定中選會應該要責成行政院盡速完成法令程序確保選務正常推動保障人民憲法所賦予的參政及投票權利不受影響另外也要請教處長針對本次公職人員選舉罷免法第26條的修法方向內政部立場是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7115.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7121.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
中選會的立場 這個應該是要問內政部啦 內政部選舉 選舉 抱歉抱歉 選舉應該是要問那個處長才對 問中選會就是要請問內政部及中選會的那個立場是什麼這一次公職人員選舉罷免法第26條的修法方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7133.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7150.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
這次的修法不是單一政黨的主張是跨黨派的共識有民進黨的委員說明現行制度下出現判刑較重者反而可以參選緩刑者卻不能參選的情形確實存在制度上的不合理 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7151.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7176.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
本黨團所提出的版本也提出明確將受緩刑宣告或異刑處分者排除在限制之外使制度更具彈性與合理性這次修法不會放寬重大犯罪的規範是要處理現行制度過於僵化的問題特別是現行條文僅以刑罰執行狀態作為判斷標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7179.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7204.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
沒有區分犯罪性質也沒有檢視其與職務連結或選舉公正之實質關聯導致對部分人民參政權產生過度的限制社會上雖然有不同的修法意見但制度本身應該要保留合理的彈性避免對人民參政權有過度僵化的限制本席想問內政部是否支持這個也請書面回應 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7209.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7237.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
這一次的修法並沒有放寬對重大犯罪的規範而是要將限制參政權的標準回歸憲法所要求的實質關聯以符比例原則唯有透過精準且合理的制度設計才能維護乾淨選舉的同時兼顧更生理念與基本權的保障確保我國民主制度的正當性與可持續性 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7238.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7265.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
最後本席要再次呼籲行政院應該要儘快通過中選會的人士請回歸正軌不要再違法違規然後再來我還要問那個再一次請教劉部長因為一直都沒有得到那個回應就是先請教中選會村里長的村里長 陸配村里長所有的村里長的單選證書是不是中選會發出的 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7267.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7297.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
是嗎 包括我本人 中選會的單選證書不是中選會發陸配村里長的不是啊對啊應該都是你們發的吧 好像前面有確認那劉部長本席今天代表陸配族群 再一次OK好好反正就是說你們也我應該說呼籲你們去年苛扣陸配村里長的年終慰問金拜託盡快就是依法補發謝謝 以上謝謝主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7306.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7332.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
要回答嗎 沒有回答就回座 請回座好 本席在這邊分享一下我想在立法院所有的群黨都會有完整的文字記錄無論是大家的發言或者是沉默這份記錄不只在當下而是在未來台灣的民主發展過程當中所有的公民教育很可能都會引用這當中的所有的一個記錄或許是現在或許五年後十年後或者是在場的各位百年之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7333.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7358.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
甚至是人類文明消滅的時候這份紀錄可能都還會留存著我會請大家好好珍惜在立法院的每一次的發言我為自己留下一個這個民主的一個典範以上那接下來我們請王美惠委員發言主席我們現在保定跟我們中選會的王處長麻煩部長跟處長 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7366.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7387.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
部長、處長、校長今天本學生給你們探討一個公職人員的報名法重點的資源就是選舉的法律修訂以後的政策規定跟選務工作要合一內交給中選會處長你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7394.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7402.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
海報委員,在條文裡面有看到,謝謝有看到?是跟您認為,現在在修的時間,剛才您有回答整個立委說沒問題啦在這個過程本身要跟您說的是,我們是要提升選舉的獨立屬權統一的立場的時候,那在內政部這邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7421.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7427.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
基本上 內政部說 他們沒有反對嘛那在你們總選會 你認為怎麼樣來 你回答這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7433.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7461.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
報告委員關於這個選政選務分立這個事情那討論已久那目前在內政部的組織法裡面是管選政那中選會的組織法裡面是依照法律來執行選務所以這個選政選務之間其實兩部會跟選政選務之間的分工跟配合一項都非常良好所以我們才建議說維持現行的這個制度的規定來辦理以上這樣你的意思就是說維持不用再去修啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7462.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7474.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
是不是這樣來回答一下是啦 但是在這個規定當中像我們的收工資罷免法裡面有總統、副總統的選罷免 同樣的規定是不是也同步 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7481.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7494.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
下去修正是不是這樣來 請回答一下還是不用修 選總統大選的時候 跟地方的選舉是不是適用這兩個不一樣來 回答一下這個制度 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7499.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7515.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
報告委員依照選罷法的規定那個選舉公告發布前 發布後就要適用新法所以說這個條文如果是在選罷法發布後那選舉公告發布後才施行的我現在就是 你說你的立場 你的選法啦不要緊張啦 他們是大家做參考可以讓這個法 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7525.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7539.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
還好啦,因為我覺得選舉的時候,說實在,很神聖的不可以亂來,像我們說整個都由中選會去做的時候你覺得中選會有辦法去承擔嗎?像嘉義市就好了,嘉義市的中選會 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7550.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7569.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
那最大的那個什麼人你知不知道主委 主任委員跟什麼人下去擔任的你知不知道主任委員一般都是由地方政府的三長就是縣長 副縣長或秘書長對啊 所以說 處長我要跟你談到的就是說我們如果有合作的時候地方政府的秘書會更順暢跟你如果跟你們單一你們獨立的 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7578.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7594.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
這個人數 你們的調配也好 台獨話也好說我們如果重金六十八歲 可以在今年度來算計 重金四十幾萬人的時候這也是需要調配吶處長 這不是說我們中選會說的 跟我們有辦法去承擔吶你有辦法補充什麼沒有來 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7605.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7629.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
報告委員那所有選舉從總統到村里長其實選務跟選政都是一體適用的所以說我們才剛剛的報告裡面才會說我們也是同意內政部的意見就是說這依照內政部的組織法裡面選政是內政部來辦理那選務的部分是中選會辦理那這個選政選務的分立跟他的合作跟配合 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7629.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7635.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
那向來就合作的非常的良好所以我們才會建議說還是依照現行的制度規定來辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7659.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7661.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
主席你回答一下報告主委齁 報告委員齁沒關係 大家來我是立委 我們國會立委跟媽媽來沒關係那就是說中選會齁那除了說因為我們中選會跟地方選會都是所謂的骨幹型組織啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7679.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7700.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
就是我們的員額都非常的精簡那除了說平時都有調用地方的人員當任長兼人員之外那選舉期間依法也會調用地方政府的人員來兼任選務那所以說在選務的負擔跟作業的辦理上有很大的部分是要仰賴地方政府的協助那所以這個選政選務分立的這種目前的狀況那我們還是建議說還是維持現行的規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7707.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7735.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
才可以有效的跟地方政府來協力合作 以上這樣好 主席第一 一個禮拜來 麻煩你如果說有會合一怎麼做 怎麼整頓的時候拜託上一份 來內政部好不好 委員會他們一個啦 我是真白的就委了沒有 遵照委員的指示辦理 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7736.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7746.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
我是說你也贏一個,再來,來,處長,我們的內政部部長在這個選舉裡面,我覺得很矛盾,因為我覺得不管帶一黨都一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7757.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7766.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
因為剛才我們有看到總統的情形,因為大家要選舉的時候,都會寫他的資料,來去選舉委員會報名,看你是要參選市長、參選館長、參選代表,還是議員,主要你都寫的,在這幾天的改變就是, |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7782.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7799.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
他的學歷,以前都有無窮的,所以我們規定說,在大學以上,一定要有他的比較正式,但是在這個規定,我們最近的草草鬧鬧,白色也看不到什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7801.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7803.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
會覺得說,一個當選,跟武家兩黨換一邊,幾黨換一邊的當中說實在,這審核的機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7814.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7826.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
到底在哪裡來出 補充你回答一下報告委員 審核學歷是嗎那這個是審核學歷跟有雙重國籍來那個是選務的部分 是不是請中選會好 來 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7833.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7847.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
報告委員,那關於說候選人的學歷的部分那主要是依照選罷法47條的規定啦,就是大學以上的學歷不是啦,我現在跟你說,這個我知道,現在學的就是這幾年來你們都沒選到去選了嘛有的才到高校,他的資料寫大學的 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7856.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
7877.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
我建議你去說,大學的時候要有比較正式,日本不可以那樣可以認定它是大學比較,這我知道我是說,再來我們的雙重國籍,不管你是對一國的,包括大家如果有印象 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
7879.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
7899.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
跟他去找同盟立委,人家都去找公道啦他開始要做立法委員啦,他雙重國籍他在美國的時候是終身的教授啦,他為了愛台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
7901.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
7908.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
為了要台灣那麼好,為了要信任中華民國台灣的立法委員如果他是美國的國籍,死定了他才會當作台灣中華民國的立法委員,那就是雙重國籍啦現在我要說雙重國籍的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
7927.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
7929.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
報名的事讓他們自己寫這這樣才有誠意 才有誠意我今天如果有跟我說你寫沒有 說實在的沒有你是要怎麼做啦你也沒有辦法查啦 你有辦法查嗎來 回答一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
7945.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
7958.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
報告委員那目前的這個公職人選舉裡面除了總統副總選舉他的效益資格有規定不得有雙重國籍之外立委到村里長以下他都並沒有有列雙重國籍為這個消極資格 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
7959.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
7978.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
那如果說他就職之後是應該依照國籍法規定嗎你說的你為雙重國籍沒關係候選人登記的時候他不是規定為消極資格對啦是他直接一年內要見面有雙重國籍嘛是那是依照國籍法20條的規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
7980.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
7989.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
對啦,所以我要說,大家早早留留,要有時間,大家為了這個,在這裡爭執啦我認為你們的法律要去修好,你們如果說我沒有雙重國籍,我真的有啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8001.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8010.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
剛才剛才說的說 剛才有的你寫沒有啦 沒有的你要怎樣 要怎樣辦就是像剛才這樣 剛才這次你不要因為這樣喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8015.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8037.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
這樣真的不好啦 我們應該去趕快找法律 看怎麼處理 不然內政委員會也蠻辛苦的好不好報告委員 有關國籍法20條的規定那他是在就職的時候向他的任職機關提出這個是否有雙重國籍的這些切結並不是由中選會來辦理以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8039.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8047.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
我今天實在沒什麼脾氣 也很奇怪我是如果你們說去登記的時候 登記的時候你們要審核的時候我們後面是不是有一個條例可以說要審的時候就來審好 不用這麼麻煩啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8063.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8068.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
阿維沒有資格,我們沒有資格還可以做啦現在我說喔,如果這個時間浪費在這裡,真沒差啦我輸掉了,我再跟你說啦來啦,去做啦來,主席拜託,跟兩位先生給我,我跟部長說一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8081.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8100.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
不好意思,說得氣死我了沒有啦,你放心,你慢慢說就好在這裡說實在的,最近你看到不管是電視也好、手機也好、網路也好酒駕和獨駕這個過程當中,我也看你發表意見但是說實在的 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8106.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8115.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
我在大嶺的黑服務衛生,我都騎著車,有時在兩三星期的進展,我看到獨家的人開槍,一單人前後的車被撞到 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8122.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8135.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
但是在這個過程當中 我都常常想說我們一位志向人 一位受威脅的人去做這些工作 或是做這些工作 我覺得那個發料太輕所以說未來 包括補助率也好 資產也好 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8144.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8163.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
可以早日來拉這個法,稍微多一陣子因為在這個過程當中,我也要保證說,整個生命很多人說的錢大嘛,是怎樣我們的鹹吃毒的時候,沒有鹹大嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8164.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8185.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
我所了解,是因為我們的營業時的費用所以,保證,我問問,這個費用不可以省,一定要營業後退退我們才有辦法改變中華民國台灣的制度、的環境所以,保證,我問問,我們這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8188.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8216.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
酒才好 渡假也好 能夠越來越久因為看現實 能夠這個家庭破碎所以我們希望 我們的法院 沒關係因為大家認為 跟這天氣我們沒什麼要不然滴水這個家庭的時候 煙變很大所以保庭 我跟你在這邊因為我希望我們能夠 沒關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8218.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8239.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
如果這樣的話 整個單位來看要怎麼樣是 感謝委員的提起委員剛才講到部分 包括獨駕跟酒駕我們希望可以提高刑責那有關獨駕的部分如果是累犯的話希望朝著就是預備殺人啦那但是這個我們需要跟法務部還有司法院一起來配合那我們會盡速來辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8240.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8241.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
我們下一位請黃婕瑋委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8271.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8273.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
好謝謝主席我們請劉部長麻煩部長委員好部長好在這邊跟您請教因為其實台灣是很成熟的民主社會所以也會希望說每一個能夠投票的人都可以有自己的投票權自己的參政權然後來表達自己的聲音那也可以選出自己 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8295.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8315.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
心中可以代表他來參與這個政治他心中屬意的代議士也好然後能夠來治理這個城市治理這個國家心中的人選所以我覺得這樣子的代表性也非常重要那所以今天來討論這個18到20歲的青年人口我認為是非常非常重要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8315.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8334.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
那大家也知道說2022年曾經有進行這個公投那非常可惜的是因為這個修憲門檻很高那雖然我們民進黨的支持者其實大家也都很努力投票了那很顯然其他政黨的支持者並沒有這樣子的認同所以當時在這麼高的修憲門檻之下這個18歲公民權投票並沒有通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8339.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8348.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
那所以現在其實大家有不斷的在討論包括學界也都在想說是不是有其他的方式呢那最近有兩種討論第一種說法當然就是說憲法竟然已經明定說這個年滿20歲有選舉權 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8355.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8372.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
那他們認為這個就是一個限制那憲法的保留原則就是說不能直接透過這個你修法律就要來下修年齡的門檻如果這樣的話可能會有違憲的疑慮但是有另外一種聲音是認為說 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8374.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8391.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
憲法第130條他其實他的精神是對選舉權的保障而不是限制所以就是他們認為說其實他意思告訴你說年滿20歲的國民要給予選舉權但是不代表說未滿20歲的你不能 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8391.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8408.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
有這樣的選舉權那所以也希望說這樣子並沒有違反憲法的疑慮那這是最近不少學界有在討論的事情所以我想要請教部長我們內政部對於18歲公民權的立場看法是不是有機會來修這個選罷法呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8411.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8425.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
報告委員 修選罷法降成18歲的部分我想三黨的委員都有極高度的限制但是就像我剛剛跟很多委員回應的部分一樣那委員剛也提到了在法學界有兩種不同的見解 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8426.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8452.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
一個認為說不用修憲一個認為要有憲法保留那這個部分恐怕內政部無法凌駕憲法的主責機關或是憲法的解釋機關來說是還是不是所以我建議就是說還是一樣按照我們青年基本法裡面的附帶決議是不是請大院來完備所有的包括修憲程序在內的各種法制那如果可以完備的話那內政部當然是樂觀其成 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8452.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8471.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
好當然那我也希望說我們接下來可以召開更多的座談會更多的公聽會來凝聚各界的共識那既然是說這是現在各黨都有的共識都覺得18到20歲青年的聲音很重要他們不應該被迫缺席那就應該要盡快的大家同時動起來來辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8473.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8500.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
那我也要強調說畢竟其實18歲對一個青年來說他們已經是法定上的成人了他們要負很多義務那包括兵役包括繳稅包括各式各樣民法刑法上面的完整成人的義務他們都要負但是我們的法律卻沒有給他們相對的權利那我認為這個對18到20歲的青年來說非常的不公平因為他們的權利跟義務並不對等 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8501.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8529.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
等於是他們責任上是大人但是權力上我們卻視他們為孩子所以我希望這個權力義務對等這樣的目標我們要一同來努力那最後呢我也要請教一下部長關於老宅延壽的事情因為其實我這邊有接到說我們現在這個老宅延壽的政策已經要開始實施了嘛這個這個金額補助也準備要開始到地方去了 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8530.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8557.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
但是呢我這邊有接到一些地方的意見就是說他們真的已經也實際去看了但是發現他們的空間沒有辦法裝設相關的設備因為其實這些老宅他們當初設計的時候有一些像是樓梯間的寬度不足沒有辦法裝扶手或者是他的基地根本就不足也沒辦法裝設電梯所以雖然我們有這樣的美意但是老宅當初的設計其實就跟我們想要補足 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8557.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8583.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
的這個保護管是無障礙設施啊電梯啊扶手啊這些是就我們裝不上去那像這樣子的狀況該怎麼處理呢是不是我們可不可以內政部回去多討論這一些這已經不是個案了像我的選區都是很多就是真的五六零年代就開始有的建築那他們也很希望可以申請到這樣的老宅延售的補助而且其實他們就是這個政策的TA |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8584.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8601.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
但是卻現在沒有辦法使用到這樣的我們政府提供的這個措施這個要拜託我們部長也回去讓地方的同仁可不可以實際解決他們的問題報告委員我們是預計在五月底的時候呢開始在地方政府受理申請 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8602.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8616.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
那我有要求就是內政部還要加上經濟部跟衛福部也就是衛福部針對比較老者的部分包括這個你講的扶手或者是說其他的相關措施那經濟部的話包括節能減碳措施那內政部包括說外牆的這個修繕等等這些但是呢我們會透過我們可能會全額補助協助的這個包括建築師公會 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8630.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8654.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
就是建築師公會做了一項這個案件的時候呢他所需要的服務費是由內政部來負擔不用找這個申請者地方政府不要負擔那現在內政部的全國專任的這個輔導團呢已經招標結束沒有問題地方政府還沒有所以地方政府如果他們透過譬如說相關的建築師或者土木技師或者其他的修繕公會那他們可以到現場去看 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8656.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8684.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
代替這個屋主說哪個地方是合法可以裝修跟合法可以補助的範圍而不是自己想自己講那這樣子會確保第一個未來的居住修繕之後是安全的然後合乎他們的所需或者是說他們在申請的時候有沒有合乎弱勢的部分因為如果他是弱勢的話他申請的補助費會加碼會比較高那這個部分呢我們也督促各個縣市地方政府趕快進行招標的作業 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8685.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8713.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
那這些專任的建築師而且他們是有經驗的我想委員如果有到各地的老宅研修說明會我們都是請建築師來講他們輔助已經成功的案例是哪一些所以我的意思就是說第一個我無法做個案上面怎麼樣幫助會最好但是未來我們會透過這樣的機關然後減少這個行政的流程會比較快可以達成好 謝謝部長我再補充一下其實我們那邊的案例都是看得到吃不到 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8713.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8720.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
所以我覺得沒有我覺得委員您這樣講不太公平第一個我們五月底會正式對外公布第二個我們現在的補助項目有一些部分的話一定要是合法的建築如果他的建築是違章那當然我們不太可能補助但是可以補助哪一些項目會達到他們所需我是建議還是經過我們可以授權的 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
8738.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
8761.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
這個地方上面的專業技師來幫忙做評估跟申請我覺得這樣子最恰當而不是說看不到吃不到那如果說真的看不到吃不到是因為我們的這個立法院通過給我們三年的計畫就只有50億如果按照現在要有好幾十萬的老宅要處理的話當然是不夠的當然需求量也很大沒錯這個也是要跟部長再拜託我們多編一點預算也拜託立法院我們多通過一點預算好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
8772.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
8798.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
好我們下一位請李柏毅召委發言好有請劉部長跟中選會好麻煩部長,那中選會要請兩位處長一位就好了好那先一位王處長代表,如果說業務有分工的話再請同仁幫忙,謝謝好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
8800.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
8814.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
謝謝部長,今天其實排審的內容,召委非常有技巧召委排了包含18歲選舉權的提案以及緩刑能不能參選的提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
8815.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
8839.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
那民進黨的委員都很認真的在表述一件事情就是我們對於18歲參選的這個權利我們表示支持那如果要在選罷法裡面修18歲參選跟憲法會遇到什麼問題那這個有兩件事情來引發來社會上的做的這個討論裡面包含 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
8842.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
8865.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
大家很有共識的修完青年基本法那希望在兩年內可以完成18歲公民權的這個修法那還有在2022年的18歲公民權的投票裡面很遺憾民進黨當時也是全力投入地方的說明但是還是只有達到564萬的同意沒有達到962萬的同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
8868.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
8893.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
那所以這個沒有沒有通過那所以就開始有討論說怎麼樣繞過修憲直接修選罷法那可以讓18歲擁有公民權這是今天民進黨大部分委員那很認真在表述我們希望支持那有哪一些論點可以支持我們的這個修法包含憲法裡面只規定20歲憲法的130條20歲有依法選舉之權包含 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
8900.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
8923.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
23歲被選舉權其實是規定在選罷法裡那如果來修選罷法的被選舉權這個是沒有違憲的你從23往下降到20是沒有違憲的那現在討論的癥結就在從選罷法裡面要從20降到18這個跟憲法有沒有抵觸這個是大部分委員很認真在討論這件事情那我們還是會 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
8925.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
8945.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
主張18歲是可以投票的看用什麼方法在不違憲的情況下那或許凝聚更多的社會共識或者是釋憲都是一個很好的方法但是今天的排審裡面後面還藏有緩刑能不能參選 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
8946.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
8970.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
那有幾個提案裡面包含這個選爆法第七款大家比較有共識的部分是選爆法第七款裡面針對黑金槍毒的緩刑他還是不得參選目前看到的提案是這樣但是我從過去兩年內政委員會還有所有委員會去到院會 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
8971.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
8999.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
被院會翻案被修正動議被臨時暴力通過的議案內容大大不同我想在這邊提出一點質疑在柯文哲主席被判17年以後他已經喪失在也是在總統副總統選罷法裡面的第10款總統如果經過10年判決以上會確定他是不得 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9000.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9027.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
登記參選為總統候選人到時候會不會在院會又多出這一條臨時修正動議我不知道那所以今天其實委員會很有可能也只是國民黨的一個伎倆就是一個過水那國民黨這個也不是沒有記錄其實也有說重度加重詐欺罪不得參選這個我覺得也可以討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9028.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9048.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
那對於中選會的人事案國民黨有沒有詐騙行政院我覺得這個也可以討論啊如果有詐騙這個算不算加重詐騙這個算不算加重詐欺這個也可以討論啊重點是我們希望今天的這個排審之後的這個修法可以公開透明透過公聽會 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9049.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9063.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
透過讓更多民眾更多人民知道可能要放寬的這些緩刑的條件內容是什麼讓社會有共識再來處理那今天我的另外一個議題其實也跟這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9066.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9093.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
能不能參選是有關係的,但是剛剛王美惠委員這麼生氣齁這個,劉部長這個你可以不用回答,這個你先請坐,因為這個是選委會要做的事情來選委會這裡有一張齁,這是全國不分區及僑選立法委員的登記表格每一個不分區都要登記,不分區委員都要登記這張表格,裡面有一個候選人消極資格條件,這個要簽名蓋章的 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9095.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9119.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
候選人消極資格條件裡面好除了下列人員不得登記為候選人現役軍人現役替代義男軍事學校學生各級選委會委員然後依據法律不得參選候選人包括台灣地區人民在大陸地區設有戶籍或領有大陸地區護照是不得參選的好 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9122.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9145.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
這裡要簽名代表你知道這件事情我想要請問一下在媒體看到李貞秀女士如果照民眾黨提出不分區應該是什麼時候要提出不分區名單什麼時候要簽結這一張所有的這些有登記不分區的委員來 選委會報告委員這一件那這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9149.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9165.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
這一屆是在112年的時候辦理候選登記的也就是2023年都要繳交這一張對不對登記的時候都要繳交都要繳交對不對你們有沒有查核這一些人有沒有簽名有沒有查核 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9165.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9184.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
有沒有要求他要出示他的儲戶證明有沒有報告委員那因為候選登記所需要繳交的表件是規定在施行細則的第15條那第15條裡面規定的表件裡面並沒有那個儲戶證明這些的文件這一張是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9185.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9207.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
那個是登記調查表那我們審定的時候齁因為他要繳規定要你沒有根據調查表是去審定所以李貞秀女士她提出她有儲戶的證明是在2025年也就是你剛講的114年她在112年的時候簽的還是她沒有簽名請全委會提供這一張證明出來如果她在 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9211.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9235.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
2023年參與民眾黨登記的時候他就沒有簽名或者是他也沒有儲戶他儲戶是2025年才交出來的他也是詐騙民眾黨啊詐騙中選會啊這樣是合法的立法委員嗎?時序還是要搞清楚所以我說我上次就說中華民國公職啊這個登記調查表啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9238.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9241.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
比要去戶政事務所結婚還要寬鬆啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9243.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9266.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
口口聲聲說你已經離婚了,去到戶政事務所就要扛了啦但是你在選委會還是沒有檢查出來啦所以我們還是根據這一些國籍法或者是這個儲戶我們都認為他不具有中華民國立法委員的合法的身份所以包含在委員會裡面做過所有的紀錄未來都會變成事實 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9268.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9297.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
我也極力主張他不能變成事實所以包含在會議紀錄的確認我都主張行政院尊重行政院可以不必尋答李貞秀女士的發言謝謝好那因為丁薛忠委員已經到現場了我們是不是等丁委員發言完再休息可以嗎我們部位的同仁可以齁好那我們就請丁薛忠委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9306.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9307.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
謝謝趙偉我請中選會王處長好 處長請委員好 處長好今天我們將對這個選舉法定26條這個排黑條款我們三檔都有提案希望說大家可以有共識來進國外可以支持在這裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9336.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9338.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
把咱輸掉個個吼 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9340.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9346.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
我們婚姻管理會還有法國人來我們共產會來跟我們請說我們有一個事前的查核的機制我在地方在地方在遭遇的有一些熱心的事熱心的好朋友但是他們想要慘酸共濟但是過去年輕的時候有少許煩躁 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9369.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9380.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
大家都一樣,先臨靠國有事做,靠國打岔誰人有,還是犯大條,犯小條而已但是,到一個年紀來,人家想要來替地方來服務,剛好遇到我們這個開黑條款 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9388.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9392.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
有符合資格,沒有符合資格,我們現在的制度是一定要當到定期之後才有辦法去了解,才有辦法確定說這個人,他有辦法參選問題是定期之後,再去用確定、勘定,資格沒有符合這對於我們參選群、領群,這我相信可能會比較沒有符合 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9416.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9421.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
請我們法政處蔡處長來答覆那有關你參選人的消極資格那如果說是對選罷法26條消極資格所列的各條款的適用有疑義的那中選會當然 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9440.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9459.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
子無旁貸的要協助準備參選的人來解釋通常我們碰到的是說他自己連犯什麼罪都不清楚然後要中選會來事先幫他來預審但是因為犯罪前科資料是涉及 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9460.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9475.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
個人資料啦那如果說中選會不是在辦理法定政治上的選舉的時候事實上是沒有辦法向相關機關來要求他們提供相關的個人前科資料的這個問題喔有的時間二十年、三十年甚至四十年前他們過去去換車的 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9488.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9492.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
而實際的狀況,他們犯錯的生意有去卡到,這個派的條款,以我自己的名字來跟他們了解,有些人有些清楚,有些人有些清楚,所以我感覺這個比較矛盾,生意要請, |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9508.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9513.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
我們中選會現在針對這個派遣條款轉押的法律判斷,把想要參選的人,我們這個查詢制度,我想說可能要我們內政局、中選會跟我們法國國,大家看國會,大家討論一下。 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9530.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9534.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
討論一下說 用一個相應比較好的機制 讓他們比較方便去查詢不然說 等到選舉到來 他們去做定期 要做好選人結果定期之後 選擇的主席 靠穿回來你如果說 兩個鄉鎮長在選了一個主席要扶好 一個就當選了 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9555.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9562.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
對啊,所以當這屬身查核的,我們一定要想一個辦法,看破壞來串聯起來,來想一個查核的機制,我是建議要這樣比較好,不要說等到選舉高,等到人家登記,登記之後再去選擇,我覺得這對於我們參選群比較不公平。 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9583.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9611.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
包圍 如果說你參選人他個人能夠取得或知悉他自己的犯罪前科的情形那是不是符合公職選罷法的消息資格那中選會當然是一定會做相關的一個說明跟協助啦有的在製作角對 那只是個別的你參選人那我看有一些是他像 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9612.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
9633.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
警察機關來請求說提供他的犯罪的一些情形有些是這樣子但是因為候選人的登記還是要以登記期間截止時的為準所以說還是會有稍微的落差不過最重要的前提還是說個人應該可以應該要先取得 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
9634.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
9645.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
個人或自己個人的前科的一個情形有一些是因為司法院也有這個公布這些個人的一些判決的一些情形那可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
9646.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
9663.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
就是個人也可以向這個可以由這個司法院公佈的判決的情形去查看看如果說不確定個人的前科情形不確定的話可以去查詢看看或是我看有一些警察機關也願意提供他的犯罪前科的情形至於說中選會因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
9666.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
9675.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
因為這個時候沒有辦法因為法律沒有這個根據啊所以說沒有辦法譽為像相關機關這個個人前科資料的持有機關來請求他們這個來提供啊是有面臨這個問題所以我們通過這個派遣條款一個條例的規矩他就說非常嚴格 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
9692.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
9696.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
給年齡很了解應該是怎麼算這樣啦 再記錄說一個簡單 少年犯少年犯他過去有那個卡就簽記那這樣可以算嗎對 就是剛 各位報告 如果說他 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
9708.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
9733.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
能夠明確的說或是提供或是說他自己有疑問也沒關係只要願意說他曾經犯槍砲彈藥盜竊管制條例的什麼罪這個我們都可以協助他說明是不是符合官司選罷法啦我剛才在問的 我剛才在問的意思就是說少年犯 少年犯犯的事跟新年起來 那罪依然有在 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
9736.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
9752.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
就是要看法院的判決的情形它是引用適用哪一個條款這樣來做決定做判斷感謝我們中山會希望說我們有一個完整的制度我們也是提供真的有熱心想要提到可以服務的人給他們一個機會 給他們查詢既然我們已經有這個改善條款 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
9765.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
9777.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
讓他們明確的了解他可不可以參選我的用意就是這樣而已這個國防科林我們要再修一下感謝我們中山委員好那我們現在休息五分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10177.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10202.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
好 我們繼續開會 我們接下來請武麗華委員發言武麗華 武麗華 武麗華不在 請下一位鍾嘉斌委員發言 鍾嘉斌 鍾嘉斌 鍾嘉斌不在 我們請下一位林儲英委員發言 林儲英 林儲英 林儲英不在 我們請下一位楊瓊英委員發言 楊瓊英 楊瓊英 楊瓊英不在我們請林俊憲委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10203.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10217.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
林俊憲 林俊憲 林俊憲不在 我們下一位請詹雅琳委員發言謝謝主席 也有請部長好 麻煩部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10229.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10242.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
部長好那我想今天就是想要跟部長來討論有關於18歲公民權這件事情就是說我們針對這個18歲的年輕人其實依照我國的法規他已經承擔了很多的責任包含刑事責任、納稅義務 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10244.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10263.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
甚至男性還有這個兵役的義務那所以今天我想要請教跟部長來討論的地方就是說為什麼他們可以對國家負責卻不能決定國家的方向這也是許多的青年團體他們提出來的一個質疑以及他們的訴求因為這非常明確的是一個制度不對等的問題幫我按一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10265.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10294.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
好所以我們來看一下各國的公民權來比較就是說像美國呢在1971年的時候呢他們國會就已經通過也批准了就是在這個憲法第26號的修正案來這個讓這個18歲的有這個公民權那英國是在1969年那日本呢是2016年開始適用那韓國2019年那德國也是所以我看這個縱觀歐洲美國亞洲其實許多的國家都已經把這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10295.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10305.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
權力下降到18歲可是我們台灣的門檻還是比較高所以我想就是說我們今天應該真的是要來討論一個更關鍵的問題就是世代正義 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10307.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10331.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
今天政府不管是教育制度、房價、勞動環境甚至國家財政影響最深的其實就是年輕人可是這些人沒有投票權可是我們一方面又鼓勵青年參與公共事務那同時呢我自己也看了一下我們2022年的修憲案其實當時的同意票是大於不同意票的所以其實人民的想法其實也是支持的只是因為修憲的門檻比較高 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10334.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10361.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
那我想請教就是說這段時間其實我們也看到許多的法律的學者他們其實 雖然也有一些學者認為修憲才是正軌啦幫我按一下好不好就是有一些學者還是認為修憲才是正軌可是也有一些學者像是李念祖老師 林佳和老師 胡柏碩老師還有這個顏爵安老師 林明熙老師及陳新明嚴大法官等等的 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10362.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10377.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
這些老師呢其實都已經公開的表態支持修法特別是他們主張憲法的解釋不應該只拘泥於制限當時的歷史背景而是應該在文藝允許的範圍之內採取綜合的歷史綜合採取歷史解釋體系以及目的性的解釋 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10379.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10404.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
那他回到憲法的130條他的文藝其實可以理解為立法者至少必須滿20歲賦予選舉權但這並不代表立法者不能夠提早賦予所以如果從憲法第17條所保障的參政權來說呢其實提前將選舉權下修到18歲是在擴張基本權的保障而不是違憲啦換句話說18歲公民權基本上呢就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10404.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10420.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
不論是透過青年基本法或是休選辦法來實現在這樣子的解釋架構應該都是符合憲法精神所以我想要請教一下部長您的看法您認為我們是不是應該要把這些學者主張納入考量還是您認為說我們應該要如何來進行呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10422.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10445.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
報告委員 委員對於18歲公民權的奴隸大家都看得到但是我也要跟委員講說我不是憲法專家所以我們才會主張說有沒有可能在內政委員會或是說在大院裡面請各種不同的憲法學者來就有關於學界的意見因為第一個反對修法的人會覺得說它是一個憲法保留 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10445.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10463.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
必須要透過修憲才能夠把這個條件年齡限制放寬那另外的支持修法的意見就是剛剛張委員所說的部分那所以我是覺得說既然說有各種不同的說法的話我們不如就是在這個民意代表的機關裡面把是不是修憲或者是我認為只是不合憲 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10464.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10483.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
不能講說是違憲的部分做一下比較好的充分的溝通那如果溝通的結果大家有一定的共識的話我也會建議按照我們在112年的大院裡面所通過的青年基本法裡面的這個附帶決議裡面就是完備整個的這個體制上的修法的部分的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10484.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10504.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
然後也請大院來決定說是不是要把這個修憲程序把它完備那如果修憲也完備然後在那個憲法的解釋上呢大家也都在大院同意的狀況之下的話那對於這個選舉罷免法呢下修20歲的這個公民全到18歲那我們當然是樂觀其成也就是說如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10505.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10520.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
我們只單純就現在因為18歲在民法上面或是有一些法律上面已經通過了那現在只要修選罷法就可以了我是覺得這好像是缺了一塊為什麼我們從112年或者是在上一次這個上一屆 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10521.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10548.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
大院裡面的全部的立法委員都通過修憲希望把公民權下降到18歲那只是後來在公民投票的時候功敗垂成那樣子的修憲程序如果我們現在就跳過去讓他覺得說在主張憲法保留的人恐怕批評的聲音會比較大所以我們認為說是不是可以在就完備這個法律的限制上面或者是修憲的限制上面在能夠做充分的溝通跟討論我想這樣會更圓滿 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10550.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10553.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
報告委員我想大家都知道這個憲法裡面就行政、立法、司法 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10566.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10583.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
也就是立法還有司法的單位他們也要主張在修憲上面的是不是18歲的公民權符合修憲的程序或者是現在就可以不用修憲就可以擴張解釋要有其他的單位都同意的狀況之下不是只有一個內政部同意因為我剛剛有提到我不是憲法的專家 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10584.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10602.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
我只是想要了解一下部長的態度啦但看起來是非常的正面啦那我也是希望說呼籲我們的主席啦希望我想我們應該是來召開公聽會啦廣大各種不同的聲音讓這樣子的立法呢可以真的是得到大家的共識啊然後這樣子的立法也才能夠回應到民間的期待謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10611.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10636.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
我下一位請高津樹梅委員發言高津樹梅高津樹梅高津樹梅不在下一位請蘇清泉委員發言蘇清泉蘇清蘇清泉蘇清泉不在我下一位請陳雪生委員發言蘇清部長麻煩劉部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10645.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10672.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
兩個問題問你一下國家重要私地,私地是內政部管的嗎?所以我們國土署嘛要看是國家型的還是地方型的國家重要私地對,私地是我們管,但是要有國家型的還有地方型的國家級的啊國家級的當然是既然列為國家重要私地當然是,國家公允署那我們馬祖有個國家重要私地 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10672.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10701.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
你有沒有聽說過?不要說看了,有沒有聽說過?我不只聽說過,我也去看過看過?看過,那你一年編的多少錢預算?很抱歉,今天我沒有把他帶過來但是報告委員,我們今年預算也都沒過啊所以我編多少預算,一點意義都沒有今年沒過,去年有沒有過?去年當然有過啊前年有沒有過?你關心一下好不好?他用了幾塊錢啊? |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10704.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10732.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
那個重要私地我是很反對的,我當縣長的時候搞出一個重要私地然後變成國家重要私地,你一毛錢都不花啊那個叫什麼重要私地私地有的時候是為了保存而保存,倒是不是加了很多人工的建築我告訴你是為了選舉啦選舉啊,結黨結派啦把它搞成一個重要私地我擺在肚子裡面我沒說出來啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10734.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10761.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
現在已經多少年了你既然重要私地有個碑在那邊國家重要私地你不要鬧笑話好不好那你就把它弄好嘛好不好既然內政部當然部長不是你啊已經換了好幾任部長既然有這麼一個私地在那邊你就把它弄好嘛你不然就把那個牌子拆掉既然不是就拆掉嘛你擺在那裡丟人現眼幹什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10762.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10789.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
公告有公告的程序啦如果要撤銷有撤銷的程序我沒有意見齁這個東西是你們內政部搞出來的我們來檢討一下不是我搞出來的,是你們弄出來的你如果要它繼續存在的話,你就把它維護好嘛好不好,你就維護好這是一個問題第二個問題就是馬祖目前有大陸的有一些人士啊判過刑期屆滿啊人求啦齁那麼沒錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10792.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10821.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
也沒地方住你們把他丟到馬祖區移民署在管了吧這移民署在處理的丟到馬祖區準備要遣返怎麼遣返啊爹不疼娘不愛是不是,你遣返沒辦法遣返啊上一次遣返了一個回去然後陸委會想借用這一個人球的模式因為那是福建省那邊同意的 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10822.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10850.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
那他的入境出入境只一次一次一次那想說這四十幾個十幾個也有十幾個啦並讓你們一起走後來也不行那後來我聽說透過紅石智慧那現在政府跟對面都沒有功能了嘛等於嘛你們這四十幾個人球丟在馬祖他不會賺錢啊他沒錢啊那也沒地方住啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10852.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10877.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
那你說會發生什麼事?這社會問題了嘛是不是製造社會問題?我們觀光客那麼多,那這些人在那邊在幹什麼呢?他沒錢啊第一個社會觀感不好第二個,也會出狀況啊那你為什麼不擺在金門?或是擺在澎湖也可以啊你好的丟在金門,不好的放在馬祖能不能把他們送到金門去好不好?您看咧?部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10881.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10903.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
如果那個金門的民意代表同意的話,我們也當然考慮之列但是我想,我想,委員這樣報告委員,我想你了解遣返機制啦,那遣返機制不能夠操之在我所以事實上呢,確實會有一些觀感上面的問題或是在處理上面的問題,但是我們盡量把它維持好 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10904.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10919.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
不是部長,你把他放在馬祖是什麼意思,我真的搞不懂你吃飯移民署,移民署出來有沒有來?沒有,今天只有初一選罷法,我們只有民政司的初一選罷法?對你移民署有沒有給他伙食費? |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10921.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
10942.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
這些人吃什麼他已經不是屬於延長收容的部分我們是請外面的類似紅十字會或是民間團體如果你們移民署沒管的話那我就回去把他們買個機票,我帶他們到金門去玩玩了以後把他們丟在金門,你看怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
10944.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
10970.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
你是說從馬祖帶到金門去玩,然後把他丟在金門我就不管他了我所了解馬祖到金門沒有直飛的班機我有辦法,我飛到台灣再飛到金門我想我們嚴肅的面對這個問題如果他有衍生其他的社會或治安的問題的話,我們來協助處理衍生的時候已經來不及了,是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
10971.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
10982.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
治安問題出現的時候已經來不及了我是說未雨綢繆你們睜大眼睛把這問題解決好不好你跟對面沒辦法去解決 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
10984.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11002.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
我們可能會來考量是不是有這個在延長收容的機制但是在延長收容的機制的話還要會同幾個機關一起同意的時候才能處理我沒有意見但是這些人你要處理嘛對不對你不處理你要我們怎麼處理啊你要我去處理嗎還是馬祖的縣長去處理嗎跟對面去談嗎也不能談啊協議也不能簽啊是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11013.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11029.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
鄭麗媛主席去那邊,又去唱紅啊,又來啊所以反正都是不好的嘛我去跟對面聊兩天,聊兩句,現場去跟他現場沒講話,對面講話回來你們內政部也要他做筆錄,做了老半天欸誰敢去啊我覺得住在台灣也蠻恐怖的現在,我覺得很恐怖欸你不覺得嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11041.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11062.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
你說大陸那邊人權不好,我們這裡人權也好不了哪裡去我覺得報告委員,不能同日而已,我們就是常備管轄的跨境鎮壓的對象常備管轄,我們已經跟大陸來往幾十年了我們有被統戰了嗎?有被幹什麼了嗎?我去統匪了嗎?沒有嘛但是你不要把每個人都當作賊一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11064.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11085.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
我們相信你看去那麼多人,有沒有哪個人滯留大陸不回來的?沒有啊有報告委員,現在有些宗教團體去那邊確實被留置,到現在還沒回來人家說不准做法輪功,你要到那邊去練功那有什麼辦法?不是法輪功好啦好啦,我今天跟你講這個40幾個人球的問題你去處理好不好你那個失利的請他們回報一下好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11091.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11119.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
我要了解你們對失利怎麼處理,好不好?報告委員,現在在馬祖的失利目前的狀況是嗎?我雖然反對,當然啦我雖然反對,但是我很關心啊你要,你就把它好好保管好你不要,你不要就把那個牌子給我打掉是不是?你總要有個方式嘛,你不能丟在那裡啊,好不好?我希望這個事情給我回報一下部長謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11127.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11149.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
我們接下來請吳佩奕委員發言吳佩奕 吳佩奕 吳佩奕 我不在 下一位葉元之委員發言葉元之 葉元之 葉元之 我不在 下一位吳齊 請吳齊銘委員發言好 三位一會同仁 請我們內政部部長好 麻煩部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11156.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11175.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
部長針對公子人員選舉罷免法今天大家都在討論尤其我們針對我們這個選罷法第26條的設計本來是重大犯罪者在立法院過去的條文應該都是沒什麼問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11176.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11205.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
但是他們今天我所聽到我們各位委員所講的就是重罪的話未達十年以上或是一顆滑金者都可以參選那另一方面只被判反刑的不論是重刑罪還是輕刑罪一律都不得參選這是一個比例原則這本席還是希望我們內政部所大家今天所提的大家都謹慎的來研究 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11206.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11211.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
因為有的是清醒的罪行罪者 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11211.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11240.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
那判反刑又不能參選這對當事者也是有不公平的地方但是重刑犯我們當然是危害到國家還是重大的不管是槍砲還是毒藥這一種都是我們列為重刑的這個本席都是非常的支持我們過去一貫我們所修出來過去的修改的條文但是本席是非常支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11241.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11265.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
那所以針對這一個問題本席還是尊重我們內政部那針對我們那個20歲比例下降到18歲這個本席是非常支持因為我們過去的選辦法都是18歲就可以來進行投票那未來我們公職人員的選舉 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11267.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11274.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
我也希望我本席支持下降到18歲請問部長是否支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11275.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11303.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
感謝委員對於18歲公民權的這個支持那我剛有提到這個憲法學者大概有兩派那我們很希望這兩派的憲法學者可以在公開的場合裡面來做比較好的這個論辯那如果說符合這個大院也就是立法院在完備所有的修憲程序以及所有的法治上面的話我們當然是很樂觀來看待這個18歲公民權的部分因為你18歲 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11306.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11331.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
現在18歲 大家所接觸到 不管外面的資訊重重都是非常成熟所以下降到18歲 我認為這是迫切性所以本市也是支持一定要下降到18歲報告委員 我們都完全贊成但是也如果說是急著要把它通過在選務上面會相當的倉促 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11333.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11348.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
那像剛剛我們已經有跟幾位委員報告過現在18歲到20歲如果有下降的話大概公民的人數是41萬那41萬的話假設在年底的921選舉的話會不會直接造成非常大的衝擊 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11349.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11367.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
那也是另外需要考量的部分所以我是說第一個我們希望審慎的評估在合憲合法的狀況之下我們一定是樂觀其成因為過去我們的公投就是已經下修到18歲那過去的公投應該不會造成整個投票的混亂性 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11370.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11394.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
公投呢因為是屬於國家級的公投比較沒有戶籍的限制但是年底九合一選舉就有戶籍的限制你的戶籍不在那邊就不能選那邊的里長、議員、市長這個有一點在處理上面的還是會有一點這個行政上面的一個比較困難度因為九合一選舉真的是九張選票說不定還更多因為有原住民的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11394.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11411.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
那所以這個再處理起來呢可能會有一些困擾但是無論怎麼樣就是我們都是尊重大院最後的決定好的好那還有針對一點就是政治先進化裡面所規定的就是我們在選舉的時候大部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11412.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11435.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
地方選舉跟區域性的選舉應該都是十月份十月的最高好像是十月吧那是不是這個比例因為他現在大家各黨都有出現的問題是不是這個政治先進化可以把他拉長我是不是請民政事長跟您回應一下好的好的包委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11436.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11452.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
現在政治獻金法的一個規定可以收政治獻金的情況是你參選人而且已經開立專庫經過監察院的許可而且在這個可以收收的期間之內如果他的參加初選人 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11454.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11478.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
是在這個可以收受的期間之內的話是可以收受政治獻金目前收受政治獻金的期間總統是一年 立法委員是十個月那縣市長 直轄市的縣市長 議員等等是這個八個月那鄉鎮市民代表村里長是四個月那大概總體的一個情況是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11479.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11495.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
那如果拉長政治獻金的話可能會跟在任者他的職權上跟收受政治獻金是不是有混合的這種情況這個對於青年政治的一個部分可能要再做一個考慮 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11496.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11516.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
好的 本席提出都是看能不能延長讓他們參選人他們在初選的時候也可以來用政治獻金法因為這樣他整個金錢的管控也比較符合整個政治大家投入的 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11519.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11540.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
大家都尊重正常的程序來做嘛這是本席的看法是這個部分內政部會針對就是說收受政治獻金的期間因為有在任者也會參與選舉那因為在任者收受政治獻金跟他職權上的 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11542.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11549.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
這個會不會有衝突的這個部分可能還是必須要再做思考這部分我們會深深來做研議好的好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11558.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11573.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
我們下一位請邱志偉委員發言邱志偉邱志偉邱志偉不在下一位林淑芬委員發言林淑芬林淑芬林淑芬不在下一位請鄭振前委員發言鄭振前鄭振前鄭振前不在下一位請盧憲義委員發言盧憲義盧憲義盧憲義不在下一位請徐欣穎委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11585.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11588.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
謝謝主席 本席有請劉部長麻煩部長部長 本席就直接從你們內政部的報告開始來問你們有提到反對放寬緩刑參選的限制 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11607.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11622.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
那理由是端正罪行觀念貫徹清廉參選那所以本席要先問一個最基本的問題就是說如果一個人犯的是輕罪檢察官認為他有悔意不需要處罰給予他還起訴請問他可不可以參選 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11627.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11655.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
緩起訴跟緩刑不一樣對啊我現在就先問緩起訴嘛緩起訴可以吧報告委員這個部分因為我們在座有法律專家包括法務部跟司法院你可不可以請教他們會比較好因為緩起訴跟緩刑啊基本上也就是法官或者是起訴的檢察官因為我們在討論選罷法嘛我知道我知道我們的立場您剛說您看過書面資料了嘛所以我們的立場非常的清楚所以我所以你是不是照我的問題問嘛回答嘛緩起訴跟緩刑確實是不一樣啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11655.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11676.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
沒有 我沒有問一不一樣 我說他是這個 一個人如果他這個司法機關給他緩起訴 那他可不可以參選嗎可以嘛 對不對 答案是可以所以我還沒談到緩刑 你不用那麼急嘛緩起訴可不可以參選 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11678.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11704.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
報告委員你是選政機關吧你內政部目前你是選政機關緩起訴所以你看緩起訴可以參選啊 站在你們的立場是可以的你答不出來緩起訴是可以的請我們民政司長跟您回應一下好不好因為我的意見跟他相左我想民政司長他會比較有實務經驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11706.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11728.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
不是 部長你要清楚知道還期數 一個人被還期數他有沒有參選資格嘛 部長你回答我這問題 我本席請教你呢可以有參選資格 但是我剛有提到說第一個我們並不因人設事 還有就是一定要完全三審定讞才算對嘛 對嘛 所以還期數的話有參選資格嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11731.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11747.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
對 有參選那如果同樣是輕罪這個案件進入到法院法官審理後一樣認為他不需要入監不需要實際執行刑罰那給予他緩刑那請問他可不可以參選 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11749.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11778.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
依照現行的規定是不可以對依照現行規定是不行的所以這個就提到一個問題的核心了我們同樣是不用入監服刑的輕罪但是呢也同樣是司法機關認定的無需實體的刑罰但是因為這個程序不同一個是檢察官給他緩起訴他可以參選法院法官給他緩刑 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11779.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11783.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
他不能參選所以這個部分我們想知道他的正當性在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11785.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11808.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
在之前審查的時候因為考慮到緩刑他的罪行還是存在所以因為他罪行還是存在緩刑的期間但是他很輕很輕輕到可能去掃地呀去服務老人或罰個錢這樣對那因為基本上他有法律規定如果判刑確定他的刑期還在這個還沒有過期的這種情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11810.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11829.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
應該是不得參選這依據什麼樣 這是個人認定吧法律有規定他有罪在身 只要被判定有罪他就不能參選 哪一條法律哪一條有這樣規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11830.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11851.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
依照現行的規定如果是判決所以我們現在在討論嘛選罷法在討論嘛是在判決有最確定的這種情況如果是有指鑼公權這些也都不可以參選對 那所以我們現在就講他緩刑嘛緩刑期間不能參選那這個標準感覺上 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11856.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11877.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
這個好像沒有一致的標準因為你們講貫徹清廉參選那他緩刑期過了他也曾經有這個罪他還是可以參選的嘛所以緩刑期間他的刑度還是在很輕微很輕微除非他已經過了緩刑的期間那依照現行的規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
11878.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
11888.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
你過了緩刑的期間當然就可以參選但是你的這個刑期還沒有過緩刑期間還沒過的話他如果再犯那又有 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
11889.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
11916.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
這個要再度這個服刑的這種情況所以這個部分從這個參政的一個立場青年參政的立場希望說他完全那個罪行都沒有的這種情況來參政所以現在本席要問的就是說他一個人他可以在社會上生活他也可以就像正常人一樣工作納稅服務社會可是你們卻 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
11918.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
11946.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
這個我們現在的法條就認為他不可以參政這個就不合理因為法官都認為他的情節是非常非常輕微的可能有各種複雜的因素才造成這樣那他已經像正常人在社會上工作納稅服務社會做所有事跟正常人都一樣但是我們現在的這個規定是不行的 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
11946.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
11956.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
所以這一塊的限制的正當性在哪裡法院的判決或許有它的考量但這個有關參政的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
11957.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
11975.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
那全民的期待應該是青年的參政所以我剛剛已經講了 青年的參政那他刑期過了他還是可以參政嘛所以從頭到尾就是在緩刑期間其實他也無異於常人所以就變成你們等於是 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
11979.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
12007.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
做了一個不當的連結有一點過度限制他的基本權因為他的刑度還是在那因為這個緩刑有點是觀察期的這個概念所以你們認為在觀察期的期間觀察期的期間已經過了他完全沒有問題當然可以參選現在這樣子啦我們也有一些人認為就是說所謂的排黑條款他是在對付重大的犯罪 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
12008.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
12036.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
他不是在對付那些他已經繳罰款然後現在在掃地服役服社會勞動的這種人所以這一塊當然這個可能也會進入討論那只是在質詢的時候本席特別提最後本席也要請教就是說那我們現在討論的這些譬如說他可不可以登記參選那是不是要剝奪他的參政權他的資格如何設計請教一下部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
12036.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
12038.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
這個是選務還選政 這個屬於選務還是選政我是請教部長 不好意思 部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12045.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12073.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
選政的部分大概是政策面啦那選務的話就在執行層面上面剛剛我們討論的那個是選務還是選政有關於要不要剝奪他的這個被選舉權的部分是屬於選政但是就是說他自己要去登記參選的時候要提供什麼樣的資料來確定他有沒有參選資格是選務那現在本席最重要要請教部長我們台灣的這個選務跟選政沒有合一你的看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12075.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12087.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
選務選政照理他應該合一但現在沒有現在你選政都在你內政部選務在中選會其實所以中選會他就不是一個獨立的一個機關一個獨立的選務選政合一的機關對此部長你怎麼看 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12093.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12106.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
我不清楚就是選務跟選政沒有合一產生什麼樣的弊端可以請這個委員明確指示方向那我們才能夠針對這個來因為選務選政合一已經多年來都是這樣子的執行選務選政沒有合一多年來都是這樣執行選務選政分開來多年來都是這樣執行所以我們一直在想說為什麼選務選政不能合一這個問題啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12122.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12138.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
因為也不清楚委員所提案說要選政選務合一它的優點或者是在什麼地方我跟委員報告一下一條龍啊 你看整個的選務是中選會辦的中選會目前為止它應該要有獨立的整個的判斷各方面 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12139.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12157.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
中選會現在在獨立判斷啊 因為中選會的委員是大院通過的啊中選會能夠通過的這些部分 我們內政部沒有辦法影響到但是選政的很多決策 內政部 他甚至講很多事情他還要報請內政部那都還是內政部在掌握啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12159.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12174.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
有啦那個報告委員你現在講的可能是地方政府吧因為地方政府的選委會它幾乎都是有選舉的時候才會成立真正是屬於中選會的一個全職的人員比較少中選會現在有沒有任何的選舉制度的權利本席請教你現在中選會它有沒有任何針對選舉制度的權利 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12181.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12195.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
沒有啊 這個他可以提出這個整個都在內政部手中所以這一塊本席今天質詢主要就是提出來其實這一塊我們大家也應該要來正視選務跟選政應該要合一啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12197.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12217.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
好 時間到了我們這個內政部應該很清楚現在選政還有整個選舉制度都你們在掌握但是中選會它就是選務而已它就只有選務這一塊有機會其實選務選政要合一好 OK 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12226.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12255.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
登記發言委員除不在場者外,其餘均已發言完畢,詢問結束委員高金素梅、吳佩儀、柯之恩抱歉抱歉抱歉,不好意思,那個更正一下,我們下一位請何新淳委員發言何新淳何新淳何新淳何新淳不在那我們現在登記發言委員除不在場者外,其餘均已發言完畢,詢問結束委員高金素梅、吳佩儀、柯之恩所提書面質詢列入紀錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12255.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12270.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
刊登公報書面質詢和未及答覆部分請相關單位於一周內以書面答覆並複製本會討論事項所列議案均定定期繼續審查本日會議到此結束現在散會謝謝大家 |