| IVOD_ID |
17329 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17329 |
| 日期 |
2026-04-08 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-23-5 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期交通委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
5 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
23 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
交通委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期交通委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2026-04-08T08:30:51+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-04-08T12:15:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
03:44:09 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/f826c2e4afc302dd676ba83bee9ba1437e60f8021a25648d7a9d5466ed3f81401dacc1f01158d7b75ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-04-08T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期交通委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請數位發展部部長林宜敬列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。【4月8日及9日二天一次會】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:30:51 - 12:15:00 |
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好 初期委員已達法定人數現在開始開會我們請議事院先宣讀上次會議議事錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
2152.964 |
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2177.555 |
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立法院第十一屆第五會期交通委員會第四次全體委員會議議事錄時間中華民國一百一十五年四月一日星期三上午九時三分至下午一時三十九分地點本院紅樓二零一會議室出席委員李坤澤等十三人列席委員劉書斌等二十一人列席官員交通部部長陳士凱等主席林昭吉委員郡縣 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
2179.312 |
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2206.044 |
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報告事項宣讀上次會議議事錄決定議事錄確定一邀請交通部列席報告業務概況二邀請交通部進行專題報告一項討論事項審查委員許智傑等二十二人擬據飲水法第六條條維修正草案案本日會議由交通部部長陳士凱等報告後藉由委員洪孟凱等二十四人提出質詢軍警部長陳士凱及相關人員分別予以答覆 |
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2206.984 |
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2229.244 |
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決議一報告及詢答完畢二委員廖先祥等五人所提書面質詢均列入記錄並刊登公報三委員於質詢中要求提供相關書面資料或未及答覆部分請交通部及相關機關盡速以書面答覆四討論事項令定期繼續審查通過臨時提案四項散會宣讀完畢 |
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2232.79 |
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2261.782 |
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好因為在場委員不足三人頭我們議事錄暫時不處理那我現在介紹在場委員在場有侯孟楷委員那麼接下來介紹我們今天的列席人員數位發展部部長林益晉部長數位策略師師長蔡壽泉師長任性建設師牛杏仁師長資源管理師曾文芳師長 |
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2264.35 |
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2278.477 |
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數位政府司 王承明司長資料創新司 副司長陳怡君數位國際司 司長莊盈智秘書處 處長陳仲山主席處 吳俊鈺處長人事處 莫永榮處長資訊處 王富忠處長 |
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2293.083 |
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2319.908 |
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法治處張學文處長政風處陳春信處長數位產業署林俊秀署長資通安全署蔡福隆署長國家資通安全研究院林英達院長財團法人台灣網路資訊中心余若凡執行長財團法人電信技術中心鄧維中執行長 |
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2323.491 |
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2336.761 |
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財團法人資訊工業策經會蕭伯仁副執行長好 以上介紹那接下來本日會議進行數位發展部列席報告 業務概況我們請列席機關 數法部林一進部長進行報告 謝謝 |
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2348.764 |
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2370.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
抱歉主席各位委員今天由我來為大家進行數位發展部的業務報告數位發展部目前有四大施政主軸分別是加強打炸發展軟體產業強化資安韌性跟建構數位政府首先在加強打炸的部分那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2372.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2391.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
我們有幾個重要的施政重點第一個是我們在13年9月30號我們開始就是發布了那個網路詐騙通報查詢網那這是一個APP那如果說民眾看到有可疑的訊息的話就可以把這個網址貼到這個APP裡面然後我們會 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2392.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2403.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
儘速地將這些訊息發派給各個單位或者是各個公眾人物請他們做確認然後確認之後我們盡快下架到目前為止我們已經下架超過33萬則的詐騙訊息 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2408.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2431.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
那另外一個很重要的一個策略是我們要擴大打詐好人隊的陣容這怎麼講呢因為我們都知道就是打詐基本上是好人跟壞人之間不斷的攻防我們政府作為好人一方我們會不斷的把各種資安的漏洞把它堵住但是作為壞人一方他們會不斷的尋找新的資安或者是詐騙的破口 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2431.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2451.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
所以我們就是透過網站通報查詢網串聯公司部門的打詐能量我們讓民眾可以通報可疑的詐騙訊息然後我們請資安院以及民間的資安公司用AI工具在網路上搜尋疑似的詐騙訊息那目前資安院每天搜尋到的可疑詐騙訊息的量大概是 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2452.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2478.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
五千到一萬則之間然後再來我們也會請公眾人物協助確認偽冒訊息譬如說如果有人仿冒謝金河的那個詐騙廣告的話那我們最有效的方法就直接問謝金河或者是謝金河先生的辦公室然後我們也會請各部會協助確認詐騙訊息譬如說是跟衛福相關的詐騙訊息就請衛福部去確認然後跟交通有關的就請交通部去確認 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2479.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2500.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
然後我們會也請Meta,Line,Google等平台迅速下架詐騙訊息那目前那個平均起來就是我們通知Meta這個詐騙訊息Meta在平均1.5個小時就會把那些詐騙廣告把它下架然後再來我們也請Meta,Line,Google等透過AI工具主動搜尋並攔阻詐騙訊息 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2503.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2512.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
那這個成效呢 我們就是前面有講過我們現在通過網路詐騙通報查詢網已經通知Meta等平台下架超過30萬則詐騙訊息然後呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2515.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2526.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
我們書發部要求Meta等公司加入我們所謂的好人隊用那30萬則詐騙訊息來訓練他們的AI打詐系統那Meta的AI打詐系統已經攔阻超過780萬則針對台灣的詐騙訊息然後接下來我們也請Meta去分析這些IP位置的來源那我們發現大部分的訊息來自於柬埔寨 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2537.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2564.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
然後Meta將這些訊息提供給美國政府以後美國政府用高科技手段就沒收了太子集團超過140億美元的比特幣然後呢除了就是這些網路詐騙以外我們也針對第三方支付的管制那我們目前有實施那個明亮登錄那目前有51家第三方支付業者登錄然後那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2565.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2569.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
再來在遊戲點數詐騙方面我們已經攔阻超過3.46億元的詐騙然後再來是電商業者的輔導那我們是對10家中小型電商的資安我們做強化的輔導然後我們也對54家電商進行行政檢查 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2586.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2614.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
OK那第二個施政主軸是發展軟體產業那我們這個策略第一個重要的就是我們要強調就是說台灣的軟體產業如果要健康的發展必須多做product少做project因為軟體業的特性是開發的成本很高然後複製的成本很低然後要讓軟體產業提升利潤的方法就是想辦法將同一套軟體賣給更多的人然後公開定價降低銷售的時間成本 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2615.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2641.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
然後以設定來代替客製化那這些策略事實上就是現在國際上許多那個大企業軟體大企業他們做軟體銷售的方法那我們在政府方面我們當然是希望說政府以身作則以後在那個各種計畫的標案的時候盡量是用採購現有的產品而不要為了每一個標案去開新的規格讓廠商重新去開發軟體 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2646.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2655.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
然後再來我們要建立台灣AI產業生態系那我們有五大政策工具分別是算力資料人才行銷以及資金 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2656.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2680.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
首先在算力方面我們提供免費的GPU算力給AI新創團隊那目前我們數產屬有40片相當於是那個NVIDIA H100的那個GPU算力那我們現在希望能增購100片這一點還請那個立法院多多支持那另外我們也跟金管會合作鬆綁保險業者的投資限制那我們把AI |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2681.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2707.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
用韓式的方式將AI算力列為策略性閃業然後另外我們與財政部合作提供租稅優惠讓AI算力建設列入促進促參條例的那個範圍那這個事情一旦通過以後我們預期台灣民間會有大量的投入那這個投入的那個GPU算力等級不是算幾十片幾百片的應該是算萬片的 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2708.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2724.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
然後再來資料方面我們有三個重要的計畫第一個是我們推動促進資料創新利用發展條例的立法目前這個草案已經送到行政院審議了然後再來我們會推出台灣主權AI訓練語料庫 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2726.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2747.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
等一下會說明然後再來是我們有發展資料匯流隕石強化的系統我們就是希望說盡量把政府還有民間的各種資料把它開放出來讓台灣的AI新創公司或者是大公司的AI團隊能有很多高品質的資料可以進行AI模型的訓練 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2750.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2769.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
那在那個台灣主權AI訓練與開發庫方面目前我們才上線從去年12月24號到現在不過大概是三個月的時間那我們已經蒐集了超過12億個那個token的資料那這些資料大部分是來自於政府機構 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2770.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2792.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
那個政府機構有著作權那之前我們知道很多的政府機關他在開放這些資料的時候他們都擔心說本來沒有事但是因為我開放了這個資料會不會反而是有處罰的嫌疑所以我們也搭配著就是進行修法這個就是我們促進資料創新利用發展條例的立法的原因然後我們開放這些資料以後呢目前已經有好幾個團隊包含 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2794.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2808.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
台灣的台德,那Google的DeepMind,還有Twinkle AI,還有應援科技,還有美國的Anthropic,都分別有的已經是下載,然後在訓練它的模型,那有的是像Anthropic是最近才跟我們簽訂的MOU |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2811.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2835.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
在人才方面最重要的事情就是我們發布了AI產業人才認定指引讓AI人才的需求方可以依照這個指引明確地列出他們AI人才的需求然後在供給方他們可以依照這個指引開設各種AI的課程正因為所講的供給方大概就是補習班或者是一些民間的法人機構還有學校 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2836.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2861.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
那在認證方的話我們也有一些像是資策外還有台灣人工智慧學校他們也會依照這個指引列出各種AI的能力認證那AI人才本身當然就也可以依照這個人才認定指引報名參加各種AI的課程並通過各種AI能力認證我們認為說這個訓練AI人才的這個工作不能完全靠 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2861.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2884.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
那個政府的力量因為政府力量終究是有限政府的這個預算終究是有限我們認為說其實AI人才的訓練本身就是一個非常龐大的產業我們希望是創造這樣的一個生態讓民間的力量在幫我們訓練AI人才的過程中同時他們也能有所獲利這樣子這個生態系就會越來越健全 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2885.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2910.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
然後在那個行銷方面我們相信說新創最需要的不是政府補助而是大量而穩定的訂單所以我們就辦理了各種的產業媒合會然後每次這個產業媒合會我們會找8家AI軟體供應商上台介紹他們的產品然後我們有在透過工協會邀請這個特竟行業裡面每次就找40到60家的潛在客戶來聽這些廠商做簡報 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2912.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2936.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
然後在這個15分鐘的演示之後我們就希望說盡量能搓成一些交易讓這些新創公司能獲得更多更穩定的訂單然後最後就是資金當一家軟體公司AI新創的軟體公司當他已經有產品然後已經上市獲得初步的訂單以後他通常會希望說 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2937.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2961.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
擴展他的事業然後甚至於進軍國際市場所以我們就跟國發基金匡列了100億台幣然後我們就是拿這些錢來投資民間的這些AI新創團隊我們是具體的實施方式我們會找民間的VC然後我們用搭配投資的方式如果民間的創投公司投資100萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2963.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2977.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
美金那我們就會那個一樣就是match我們一樣投資100萬美金或者是1比2的話是投資200萬美金用這個方式來投資台灣的AI新創然後第三個施政重點是強化資安韌性 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2980.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2997.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
我們的目標第一個是網路不能斷第二個是系統不能讓駭客入侵然後再來第三是資料不能丟失然後在法律面方面我們完成了資通安全管理法的母法修正跟子法的修正我們也完成了制定危害國家資通安全產品審查辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2999.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
3024.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
然後在科技方面我們分別從事前事中事後三階段進行全面的防護然後研發AI主動式防禦的技術然後推動後量子密碼遷移的計畫那在商業面的話我們就是跟台積電還有這個Semi合作推動了Semi-E187半導體資安的標準那希望說利用這個資安標準的通過讓台灣的資安產業帶來更多的商機這個包含 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
3029.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
3047.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
這個認證本身就是一種商機然後輔導廠商通過認證又是一種商機然後提供資安產品給這些廠商通過認證又是一種資安的商機所以這個是就是同樣的我們是希望建立一個健全的產業生態系那另外我們也在 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
3049.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
3065.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
我們也在設置企業資安事件應處諮詢專線那當然企業發生那個資安事件的時候他可以找我們來幫忙那我們會提供一些那個諮詢意見那必要的時候我們也會派出我們人員協助去處理然後再來是我們是推動企業資安產品雲市級平台讓這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
3069.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
3083.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
中小企業他可能沒有那個資金去養自己的資訊處自己去找資安的專業人員但是他可以在我們這個資安產品市集平台裡面找到合適的產品那個快速的去使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
3085.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
3109.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
然後在韌性方面我們分別從陸海空三方面來加強在陸的方面我們會強化過往以及行動通訊網路韌性譬如說我們會那個建設這個高抗災基地台然後在海的方面我們會強化海底電纜的韌性我們新鋪設的那個海纜我們會第一個我們會埋得更深第二個我們會加上那個鐵甲的防護然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
3110.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
3138.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
再來就是我們會加強監控就是當這個海嵐發生這個斷訊事件的時候我們可以在第一時間知道然後在事中的話我們會那個加快我們修復的速度然後在事後呢我們會想辦法找到這個肇事的人員那如果說是故意的話那我們會將他的犯罪工具沒入而且必須會加強這個懲罰那在空的方面我們會 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
3139.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
3157.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
加強低軌、中軌、高軌衛星的多重備援就是萬一如果我們這個海欄就是對外的海欄很多都失效的時候我們還有透過衛星對外聯絡對外使用那個網際網路的方法 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
3159.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
3182.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
那第四個施政重點就是建構數位政府那我們首先我們必須講就是說那個普發現金一萬的這個工作已經接近尾聲預計在4月底就會截止那目前已經登記或領取的民眾大概是達到我們預估人數的98.23%那到目前為止過程相當的順利所以我們常常就講說 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
3184.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
3202.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
開玩笑講說這是最無感的重要政績因為大家在還沒有感受到什麼問題的狀況下就把這個一萬塊錢都領到了那也在這邊再次提醒就是民眾就是說這個普發現金一萬這個是到四月底截止那剩下大概三個禮拜所以還沒有領這個現金一萬的民眾請趕快把握時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
3206.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
3229.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
然後再來我們是推動了數位憑證皮夾那數位憑證皮夾目前已經有超過10萬人下載這個APP那合作單位已經超過30家那電信卡的發卡數已經超過6萬個那現在很多民眾已經很習慣現在到超商去取貨那個網路購物去超商取貨的時候都是用這個數位憑證皮夾 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
3231.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
3258.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
這個要很方便而且它有這個選擇性揭露的功能我們去取貨的時候不會讓人家看到我的住址我的已婚未婚狀況我的那個生日這些其他的資訊都不會洩露所以這個接下來我們會數位評價評證評價會找更多的合作廠商包含這個發證方以及認證方那我們目前已經跟台大、成大 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
3258.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
3282.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
交大等大學我們跟他們在洽談我們會把這個學生證還有這個畢業證書納入我們數位憑證批價的功能裡面然後再來我們會推動以人生事件為基礎的政府服務我們都知道我們人生中會有很多事件譬如說小孩子出生然後小孩子第一次上學然後那個結婚搬家然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
3285.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
3312.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
這個長輩過世等等那我們當發生這些人生事件的時候我們有很多的事情要去辦理那過往民眾都必須自己上網去搜尋說我應該是到哪些政府機關去辦理哪些工作那我們希望有一個網頁或一個系統把這個都整理出來那以後當這個民眾發生這重大人生事件的時候他可以一站式的到這個網站上去辦理所有的這些政府相關的 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
3313.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
3337.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
政府服務所以總結來說 速發布在2026年的四大施政主軸就是加強打造 發展軟體產業強化自然韌性 以及建構數位政府那以上報告 請各位委員指教 謝謝好 謝謝我們部長的報告那這個想請問一下 補充一下在場委員 萬美玲委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
3342.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3367.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
然後我們詢問一下在場委員對於議事錄有沒有意見好我們議事錄確定那現在開始進行詢答先宣告以下事項詢答時間出席委員6加2分鐘列席委員4加1分鐘委員發言登記在10點30分截止各委員如果有臨時提案請於10點前提出以便議事人員會診我們暫定10點30分休息10分鐘現在請登記第一位侯孟楷委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3378.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3405.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
主席謝謝 麻煩請林部長好 我們請林部長好 部長早四大重點 其中第一個加強打詐我想國人跟本席都非常關心也希望速發部真的說到做到所以本席在利用質詢時間再來跟部長講知道最近有很紅的詐騙手法是什麼嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3407.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3430.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
是講的是LINE跟那個台灣大哥大的那個事情嗎台灣大哥大對有這樣的詐騙啦但另外更重要的是詐騙集團他們也都會與時俱進啦所以最近在封四月封媽祖啊詐騙集團也沒有放棄這個好機會喔但我們已經有看到了台灣事實查核中心已經看到說其實有很多的詐騙訊息什麼免費的結緣品這其實是假的 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3434.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3452.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
我們也看到說這個在台灣市財務中心裡面上面有看到是從3月就開始出現很多分享結緣品的貼文而且他其實是要求民眾去留言說我要結緣等等的那後續他可能就會有私訊那有私訊他就進一步的來去跟他做連結 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3453.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3470.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
那分兩種有一種方式是說他直接就是用詐騙的方式你可能要匯款另外一種他是結合便利商店或貨到付款可是到最後他可能到的東西是一個很瑕疵品或說根本沒有這個認證的商品 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3471.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3486.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
來變成是他的一個詐騙的一個手法好 那我想請教在這一個部分裡面以及剛剛我們速發部講了那麼多說不管是讓這個社群媒體平台這個1.5小時平均啊可以下架可是還是層出不窮 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3486.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3509.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
是沒錯那個委員講的沒錯其實像這類的詐騙最困難的地方就是我們要認定它是不是詐騙那像這個結緣還有風媽祖的這些活動裡面事實上我們知道一定還是會有一些比例是真實的訊息但是有些假的訊息那現在最難的就是我們政府必須在保護言論自由跟打詐中間我們必須取得一個平衡點 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3510.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3524.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
那以這個台灣事實查查中心來講的話這個單位他做的查核是非常非常嚴謹的但是有一個問題是他的速度非常慢他通常要到一兩個禮拜他才辦法去確定一個訊息是不是詐騙那在這個過程中一兩個禮拜之間其實詐騙都已經發生了所以我們現在詐騙都已經騙完了沒錯沒錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3530.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3554.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
很多現在詐騙是24小時內他可能已經收集一定的個資詐騙集團他們現在也想的是說他不會一個帳號細水流長就可以騙所以他可能一個帳號假帳號裡面騙24小時甚至12個小時收集一定的個資他就馬上利用這些個資去做詐騙轉變手法那我們現在也看到本席剛剛也特別看了一下我們是這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3555.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3584.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
通訊我們速發部的這個通報網裡面其實過去七天喔我們過去印象中是臉書詐騙是大宗沒錯但在過去七天我看到你們的統計其實萃已經比我們的臉書還要來得多兩倍是你看這個是過去七天剛剛抓的資料萃上面有一萬三千多件而臉書上面只有五千多件所以換言之我們過去以往會覺得是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3585.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3608.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
臉書上可能年長者使用比較多翠可能相對年輕比較多可是現在反而是翠的詐騙訊息比較高是有沒有注意到這樣一個情況是我們有注意到這個現象那就是如同我們之前常講的就是打詐就是好人跟壞人之間不斷的攻防我們把原來的這個漏洞把它堵住了以前我們覺得最大的問題是Meta Facebook |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3608.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3631.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
那現在就是說我們把那個漏洞補得比較好的時候這時候詐騙集團就轉移了就轉移到那個上面然後那個以前的訊息譬如說是很多都是仿冒名人那仿冒名人我們用了各種科技還有非科技的手段我們已經把他擋得差不多的時候他這時候他就是用那個線上銷售我們還是我們現在重點還是說我們必須縮短時間所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3633.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3650.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
應該講 對不起 兩個方面一個是我們想辦法縮短時間那我們現在通知那個Meta他們的下架速度已經很快了一個半小時當然還有改善空間但是另外一個就是Meta包括臉書 IG跟Trey對所以說臉書 IG跟Trey都可以在1.5個小時平均可以下架嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3650.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3668.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
是是同一個系統那我們現在最還是就是問題就是在於說判斷是不是那個詐騙嘛那這個地方我們就是必須跟其他部會去合作因為那個依照法令我們就請人家下架還是必須有法律的依據那另外一部分呢就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3669.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3682.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
我們除了說加強這個速度以外我們去找那個請那個Meta他們去找到這個根源因為我們現在這個在Meta上面它這個詐騙的生態是這樣子第一個他們會養賬號養賬號以後他們會去開那個粉絲頁然後粉絲頁以後在下面放廣告 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3687.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3706.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
讓我們現在去要求部長這就是本席想要提出來的問題就是說因為過去臉書上面是可以投放廣告所以我們用廣告實名制就可以找出源頭比較容易有管理但現在粹上面到目前為止他訊息的散播他比較沒有辦法說用下廣告的方式來去做散播所以這就是新型態的一個詐騙手法那我們要怎麼樣預防因為現在你的數據告訴我們來我們上一頁下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3713.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3723.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
這個是三十天內的統計這也是速發部的統計三十天內的統計其實TRADE跟臉書已經是不相上下都是六萬多則可是如果說我們再看七天內的統計是 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3726.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3755.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
萃有一萬三千多則而臉書只有五千多則換言之現在詐騙集團可能你也知道是說過去這些手法我們常講磨高一尺道要高一丈那我們現在過去有防堵的繼續防堵但未來的部分這就是本席今天要跟你討論的重點就在於是說萃上面他沒有辦法廣告實名制的情況可是他有辦法有擴散還有就是他用一些關鍵字那可能搭配Meta他們的演算法會比較容易去散播那我們在這一塊要怎麼管理這才是重點 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3756.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3764.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
是 OK那這個部分第一個就是我們就是請那個Meta他從後台去觀察這些帳號開設的狀況因為通常這些詐騙帳號他譬如說如果說是用E-mail帳號去開設的話同樣的那個帳號E-mail帳號可能開很多帳號 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3772.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3801.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
那我們只要找到其中有一個是詐騙帳號的話那Meta那邊就可以去推論說其他他開設的帳戶Thread帳戶也可能是詐騙帳戶那這個事情Meta已經有在做那另外一點我們就希望說結合我們這個數位憑證起筆夾的技術我們以後去標示說哪些人是真人哪些帳戶是真人開的哪些帳戶是台灣人開的其實就是確定時線上線下共同嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3801.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3823.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
也不是說一個人可以開很多的分身而是最理想的狀態應該是一個人他有一個虛擬的帳戶那他才可以這樣相對應嘛所以過去是用不管是用手機認證不管是用email認證但未來怎麼樣加上這塊好 因為時間的問題是不是請肅發部再給本席相關的資料就是說你們要跟Meta怎麼樣因應CHOI上面的這種新型態的一個詐騙而 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3825.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3840.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
不要認為說年輕人不一定比較不容易被騙有些時候年輕人可能他比較熱血或是說他看到這個免費捷冤品他可能就信以為真反而他容易上當所以這個部分我必須要求速發部重視脆的詐騙那再來 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3842.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3855.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
最近有一個YouTube上面可能很多人也瘋傳就是說我們看到AI的影片但他已經被確認他也是假訊息就是他講說60歲以上長者搭飛機有幾大優惠甚至65歲以上長者搭高鐵有幾大優惠 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3860.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3881.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
而它已經被認定這是一個AI生成的影片而且它裡面的內容其實大多數也都是不是事實那我只是想要請教因為到目前為止還沒有形成一個詐騙的騙金額可是會有人去做AI的生成影片然後講不是事實的一些優惠有沒有掌握這狀況以及背後的成因是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3882.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3905.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
事實上這個問題會越來越嚴重因為AI的影像生成工具越來越便宜越來越普及所以我們現在就是跟Google還有Meta這些平台我們就跟他談就是說希望以後這個AI生成的這個影片都必須做標示那第一個就是說他們本身這種大廠事實上美國的這些大廠他所生成的這個AI影像事實上裡面都有浮水印可以用那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3906.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3924.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
用軟體的方式技術的方式我們就可以檢查出來它是不是AI生成的那這時候這些平台應該要把它標示出來那這個事情我們努力在跟這些大型的平台在溝通因為他們大部分都是美國公司那他們現在看起來是願意往這個方向去配合那另外就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3925.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3949.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
如果說是另外一些小廠或者就是沒有這個標示的那我們就希望說以後我們去通知如果有人譬如說有人仿冒我的影像做了AI影像的話我通知這些平台那這些平台他會有三個選項他會要求這個作者三個選項第一個移除這個影片第二個是做標示第二個是第三個是自負法律責任那現在這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3950.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3978.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
OK 是部長你講到重點在於是一般百分之八十九十的人其實接收訊息管道還是從YouTube如果說影片的話從YouTube從臉書社群媒體平台所以百分之八九十的管道如果說這些公司願意配合其實就可以減少很多誤判的一個形式所以還是要從源頭管理嘛你如果說你從這些細微末節譬如說要求每一個人用不同的AI工具生成之後然後都來做一個辨識 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3980.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
4005.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
這不一定直接但是如果說上傳到這些平台上面平台他就有責任要揭露出說他到底是不是AI生成而我相信以現在的科技以現在的技術也可以辦得到所以現在重點在於是對就是本席剛剛講的因為本席剛剛提到有很多鄉親還甚至傳LINE給我問我說這是不是真的高鐵有現在的優惠 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
4005.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
4035.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
明顯一看第一他是AI生成影片第二這些高鐵上的優惠其實不是事實那他為什麼背後的成因為什麼要這樣做我們這還要釐清可是在重點在於是說YouTube上面能不能針對這樣子的一個影片尤其是我看了一下他的點閱率高達21萬次他不是只是幾百次幾千次21萬次的一個影片還持續在轉傳也因此是不是針對這個部分應該要求不管YouTube應該Meta |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
4035.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
4064.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
他們針對播放次數比較多而AI生成的影片他就有責任應該要先標示說這個就是AI生成以讓觀眾在點閱的時候可以有更清楚的一個判斷是 我認為這個建議非常好我們會朝這個方向進行跟YouTube那邊去商量他可能是一個全球性的一個政策但至少我們政府有責任就要率先提出來我們也要要求這樣部分什麼時候可以再跟他們溝通也給我們一個時間表吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
4065.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
4082.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
OK 事實上我兩個禮拜前才去那個美國那個Google的總部跟他談過然後一個禮拜前他們又來台灣就拜訪我就是要談這件事情談好幾個議題 這其中一個重要議題是 但是把這個議題列為是一個重要項目並且有時間表讓我們知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
4082.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
4100.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
OK 好 那這個時間就是時間的預估我們在一個月內可以嗎就是先給委員因為這個事情因為我們沒有法律管轄權因為我們對Google去談我們只能說之以理然後動之以情因為這個我想大公司有社會責任有法律責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
4102.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
4121.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
可能說他們賺點閱率結果放任所有的使用者上傳不實的影片內容然後導致另外一個部分是如果說長輩看到那些影片他去要求高鐵公司高鐵公司說沒有結果到最後在那邊回北京政控床上也算是我們的地方責任是沒錯沒錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
4122.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
4140.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
也因此本席才會說你至少有你可能沒有辦法百分之百但你至少你針對多少點閱率的影片你就有責任要去做了解以及釐清說它到底是AI生成還是真人拍攝以及它內容的一個真實與否那當然牽扯到言論自由但至少 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
4141.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
4159.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
他是AI生成影片的部分就應該要標示出來吧是 非常同意好 一個月內本席等速發布但我要求的是速發布要給我們實成以及你在每一次開會的時候把這列為是重要議題跟Google跟Meta來做溝通好嗎是 OK沒有問題好 謝謝委員的支持謝謝好 謝謝洪孟楷委員的質詢我們接下來請萬美玲委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
4176.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
4177.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
謝謝趙偉 我們有請部長好 我們請林部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
4184.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
4213.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
萬維園早安部長早3月31號晚上LINE出現了大規模的登錄異常帳戶也被盜用這些被盜用對象大概比較多是台灣大哥大的用戶主要現在瞭解是有一些不肖人士利用台灣大哥大語音信箱的功能跟LINE的一個驗證機制的一些漏洞去盜取民眾的帳戶顯然部長是知道這件事的這個是發生到現在一個禮拜部長有沒有掌握我們現在目前有多少民眾受害 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
4215.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
4236.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
目前那個台灣大哥大他接獲的那個客訴事實上只有16件但是我們所瞭解的其實受到影響的民眾應該是更多遠超過這個數字那只是說正式跟那個台灣大哥大提出客訴的只有16件因為其實我相信有很多的民眾有的自認倒楣有人嫌麻煩有人覺得算了這個應該很多 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
4237.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
4264.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
那但是這件事情呢我們除了人數要去掌握一下之外有沒有去考慮過說這到底是賴的問題呢還是台灣大哥大的問題這個責任歸屬是什麼我想委員問到一個重點事實上在這種資安或者是這種詐騙的時候常常是很有趣的是什麼他個別來看很有趣喔我沒有覺得很有趣呢好啦抱歉啦我講錯話啦就是說個別來看的話都是一個小問題就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
4265.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
4292.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
因為台哥大他提供了他就是提供了一個語音信箱的遠端可以操控的功能這個本身是一個正面的事情只是說他有一個小問題是他從台灣之星那邊接收過來的這個背景上面我想我們都知道了那現在你認為應該是誰的責任還是雙方都有責任兩邊的話你來講都不是很大的問題但是結合起來就是一個漏洞很多的資安問題都是這個樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
4293.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
4322.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
所以我們現在最重要的問題兩兆都有問題是趕快把這個漏洞給補助那當然我覺得您說的非常的好那現在看起來LINE它針對這件事情所以提供了一些補救的方式那它有提到說這個帳號如果已經有綁定了Apple或者Google的帳號它可能可以幫你找回帳號那如果沒有綁定的話它可能只能協助你重新建立一個帳號但我們都知道LINE對於民眾的依賴度其實就是民眾依賴它很高 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
4322.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
4345.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
那你現在一個新的帳號其實有很多的困擾那它現在就是說那你如果有這個購買這個付費的商品那可能回補這個經費不過帳號盜用之後還會衍生一些這個法律問題這才是最可怕的就是拿這個帳號去詐騙那我們有沒有去了解一下說如果這個帳號被盜那被盜了之後又拿去做詐騙的工具甚至於得逞了那這個法律的責任應該是誰要來負 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
4347.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
4377.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
我覺得那個萬有緣你提的這個問題就是這個問題的核心其實這個賴帳號被盜用其實很大的一個可能就是詐騙集團拿去做下一次的詐騙所以這個詐騙事實上是一個產業鏈它是一個階段一個階段來做的然後它利用各種小小的這個資安漏洞湊合起來就變成一個很大的資安漏洞那這個法律的這個事情那個我想這個可能得上法院才能才能釐清因為你說這個事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4377.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4401.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
我同意後端當然就是來到司法雖然說司法其實對於現在的詐騙我看起來蠻束手無策所以我們才會有一個速發部才會想要從源頭來想辦法去遏止去遏止這個事情發生所以剛剛我同意你說的一部分但是我覺得發生這樣的事情以後速發部其實應該要跟平台跟LINE或者跟台灣大哥大我覺得應該我不知道你們開過會了沒有針對這個案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4405.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4426.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
應該對不起我自己沒有開過會但是應該我們同仁都有跟他們都跟他聯絡因為現在我覺得不是單項聯絡而已事實上是應該要把電信業者跟平台業者找來我們去看一看說到底這些所謂的這個可以杜絕的一些機制啊或者加強茶宴有沒有到高一尺摸高一丈那不能他們一直在進步我們留在原地嘛所以這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4428.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4456.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
會後讓我知道一下就這個案子我們有沒有跟兩方去談一談怎麼樣去加強這個機制怎麼樣去防堵看到這次的漏洞作為下一次不要再發生這樣OK嗎這個沒問題跟我原說一下因為這個治安的特性就是什麼這個漏洞在發現以後這個叫Zero Day Vulnerability這個發現以後我們把它堵住以後它事實上就不會再發生了像這兩案子其實就堵住了但是它會尋找新的漏洞而不是舊的漏洞這個我當然知道這又是另外一個議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4456.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4466.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
那我的意思說不然連這個都堵不住就不好看了嘛不會啦這個當然就是我們在最短的時間之內就是說這個事情還沒有擴散我們就已經通知這兩個業者把它堵住了一個禮拜內給我一下就關於這個案子發現的漏洞然後目前怎麼去加強那給我一個資料好不好沒有問題來接下來呢我想繼續我們看到就是剛剛講的是LINE嘛跟這個台灣大哥大部分但是電信業者目前看起來他們沒有提出任何的補償的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4486.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4512.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
這個作為出來啦所以我想是不是部長應該我在這裡提醒您您也可能要提醒一下在我們台灣大哥大的部分我們依據現在的個資保護法第28條第29條可以去看一看被害人雖非財產上是損失但是還是得請求賠償相當之金額那同時如果被害人就算不能證明他實際損失的時候他一樣可以跟法院依照侵害的情節每一個人大概500到200 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4514.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4534.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
兩萬塊錢的這個請求的這個損害賠償所以呢我是這個提供給你們你們在跟平台跟這個電信業者在談的時候也要讓他們知道其實啊今天是因為有很多的民眾我們現在呼籲很多民眾受害了其實是應該要站出來講的那很多民眾可能不知道他有這個權益喔我認為速發部有這個責任把這樣的訊息這個弄出去好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4535.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4558.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
接下來我想再談一件事情我們一直在談海底電纜韌性的加強可是本席看到蘇發部在昨天的時候有公布114年台灣海底通訊電纜損害的原因其中提到台灣海纜斷線的次數大概去年前大概都是在7次左右這個數據是正確的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4560.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4575.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
是你們發布的應該是正確的嘛但是呢本席又看到在速發布狹下的台灣網路資訊中心有一位黃聖雄董事長他在接受您剛剛所說很有公信力的台灣事實查核中心網路節目上面有說到他說全球現在約有500條的海底電纜 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4577.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4595.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
每一條平均每一年斷線是0.1次到0.2次換言之可能就是每10年有一次會斷的一個機率可是台灣國內的這個海欄尤其是馬祖這個台馬這一條它平均斷欄的比例是一年一條海欄大概5到6次是 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4597.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4614.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
本席就看啦 我們台馬海纜就談這個就好大概有三條 沒有錯嘛那如果按照這個算數來算的話那一年不是就是要差不多每一年都斷纜次數大概就在15次左右喔所以呢 你看速發部你自己再給我一個資訊說113年跟114年 國內的海纜斷線都是4次但事實上你光台馬這算起來就已經15次了到底這個落差是為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4623.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4644.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
我想這個落差主要是在於說24海裏之內還是24海裏之外這個是不是請我們任性試試這個不管24海裏之內24海裏之外我覺得這個你速發布自己在公布的時候你就要說清楚嘛本身今天所有持續的東西都是從你上面去講來的嘛所以呢你看你自己發布的是這個4次但落差其實是非常的大的不是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4646.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4674.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
跟委員報告基本上台馬海嵐自蘇發部成立以來到目前為止到今年3月總共斷了21次今年斷了兩次所以意味著就有19次在歷來就發生那全國的來講大概就三十幾次所以馬祖海嵐確實它的斷人頻率偏高那第二個就是跟委員報告基本上國際海嵐在做評估的時候目前的資訊有不同的資訊以ITU的資訊目前500根裡頭每年發生次數是200次以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4675.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4696.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
好 我理解而且這個背景我也知道所以我是建議速發部啦你在公布這個相關次數的時候背景條件它的基礎是在哪個地方我覺得要講清楚否則在我們看起來就是說如果你連這個海嵐斷線的這個次數落差都那麼大數據都弄不清楚何來談韌性啦有啊 我們有講得很清楚啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4697.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4719.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
報告委員確實如此可能你自己很清楚啦但你公布的是不清楚的好不好確實委員講這件事是一個我們為什麼要公布這個這樣子好不好你在會後今天就給我一份你認為最正確的資料再補一份上來那最後我想在一分鐘的時間您剛剛說到我們現在有一個數位憑證皮夾APP對不對我覺得很棒 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4721.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4748.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
這是一個很好的構想 也是一個很好的行動那我看到你的網站上介紹說不管是超商取貨 辦理政府業務拿出手機點一點就搞定了使用數位憑證皮夾 辦理政府業務的時候只需要這個攜帶手機不需要一些繁瑣的證件手續 對嗎那我請教一下 那現在哪一些政府業務可以辦理目前 因為我們才剛剛在推出 那我們現在就是哪一些 現在可以辦理哪一些政府業務 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4755.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4769.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
今天報告我是哪一些政府業務目前的部分我們可以用的部分包含公務局的駕照 駕照相關的應用那後續在4月底會有工商名證也就是公司行號的申請沒有 我就說目前嘛 我今天等一下要辦的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4770.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4798.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
跟你們報告一下政府的角色主要是發證然後在應用的話我們現在是民間應用譬如說我用政府發的那個駕照去用民間去租車所以就是說直接政府的應用這個上面我們目前部長啦我建議你網路上去修正啦不要在這邊在這邊胡說八道了啦我今天拿出來看本席剛剛就上去看看了以後就是兩個問問看是不是要去什麼便利超商是要到全家便利還是7-11去取貨沒有別的功能啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4799.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4802.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
沒有啦 我剛才要質詢你之前我才看過啦我們接下來馬上會有台大城大交大的學生證跟畢業證書我再重申一次 你這個數位憑證皮夾我覺得很好但是我覺得身為速發部你最主要的功能我們現在都認為打詐嘛但不能左手打詐右邊詐騙啊你現在還沒有做到嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4822.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4847.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
還沒有做到事情就不要浩大喜功拿來寫這樣民眾上去看了以後會失望啊會對政府失望明明說可以辦很多政府業務結果他們一上去看什麼都不能辦只能去取貨我建議你啦如果是後面後面才要來可以執行的部分的話就不要在這上面去把它寫出來這是另外詐騙的一種啦好不好如果說有詐騙的話麻煩那個委員就明確講出來哪一句話不對的話我已經講出來了你是聽不懂喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4848.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4863.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
我講的這麼清楚嘛你說辦理政府業務那你現在又說政府業務要後面啊馬上要怎麼樣連結啊就還沒有嘛那本席好意提醒你說這個APP這個做法很好但是還沒有做到不要好大喜功對民眾來講這就是一種欺騙好不好所以這個部分請你嚴謹啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4867.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4893.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
那再來最後 我想現在我們在各部會有一些文化幣 運動幣 客家幣等等那我希望部長能夠跟其他部會的部長去研究一下說能不能把它整合起來這樣不要說一種數位幣就可以一個APP其實會 各機關是成本浪費也很麻煩這個部分研究一下好不好是 現在客家幣已經是使用我們的共同平台所以已經有開始了對好 那文化幣 運動幣也拜託好不好了解看看有沒有可能可以整合一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4894.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4923.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
是 因為他們已經launch了所以這個時候要拿回來再改的話比較麻煩那但是如果說政府其他部會有新的這種幣要發行的話現在我們也都跟各個部會去溝通希望他們盡量利用速發部所開發的這個共同發放平台那不發現金事實上也是利用這個共同發放平台去發的好 OK 謝謝好 謝謝好 謝謝萬美玲委員發言也謝謝部長那我們接下來請李崑澤委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4932.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4934.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
謝謝 召委 請下林部長好 我請林部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4942.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4961.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
委員長 部長好打炸是蘇花部重要的工作跟責任之一今天我們就針對打炸的成效以及詐騙形態改變來進行相關的檢討我們看到2025年我們針對全台的炸器案件 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4962.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4989.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
其實它發生了大概19萬7595件那投資詐騙還是佔最大宗了佔了大概將近29%那但是它的發生率在蘇花部的努力之下它是有下降如果以這個2025年第四季來跟前一季的同一年的同季來做比較那下降了大概52%左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4990.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4995.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
但是這個時候我們就看到我們相關的這種詐騙已經逐漸從投資詐騙轉向到網拍網路的這種拍賣的這種詐騙假網路的這種 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
5005.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
5026.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
拍賣購物的這種詐騙2025年發生了35443件大概佔了詐騙的這個17%左右那受害者年齡都是年輕人居多那以23歲以下的年輕族群為主那這樣類型的詐騙網路的這種購物的詐騙 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
5030.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
5052.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
以去年的第四季就已經創下這五季來的最高而且啊年增率達到百分之二十二以上那我們現在針對這種金額雖然比較低但是數量多的這種詐騙的新型態啊速發部的偵測跟下架的手段我認為必須要檢討跟加強我們現在有AI的這樣的一個掃描 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
5058.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
5083.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
來打擊這樣一個詐騙的狀況那成效如何來說明一下OK 事實上我們就是我們如同我們之前常常講就是打詐基本上是好人之間不斷的攻防我們把一些漏洞為堵住以後這個詐騙集團就會尋找新的漏洞那以前都是以高齡投資詐騙大金額的為主那現在變成說是比較年輕的族群然後是這種小的金額這種 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
5085.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
5107.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
拍賣的這種網路拍賣的這種詐騙為主那這個事實上詐騙集團為什麼往這個方向發展其實有一個原因就是因為這類的詐騙我現在請教你的是AI掃描這種網路的詐騙成效如何是那我們現在每天就是可以那個找到那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
5108.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
5125.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
找到那五千到一萬筆的那個疑似詐騙的那個訊息那現在最大的問題是要判斷那我要判斷說這則那個詐騙訊息是真的還是假的那AI因為它本身的詐騙那個判斷有兩個問題第一個是它有所謂的那個偽陽性跟偽陰性的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
5126.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
5140.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
這個是AI系統所不能克服的另外一個是法律責任的問題我如果直接用AI去判斷直接就要那個平台去下架的時候到時候會發生紛爭這個政府我必須負責任不是啊我們現在刷布雖然有用AI來偵測這些相關的網路的詐騙但是啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
5143.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
5162.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
這樣的一個2025年第四季的這種假網拍的網路的這種購物詐騙卻是創下新高這顯示我們目前這種AI的偵測模型是過於僵化必須要有所改進我們對於相關的關鍵字以及它的樣態 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
5163.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
5190.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
是必須要去做調整因為過去都是以名人投資來做為一個偵測的一個重要的基礎但是形態已經改變了是我們說的完全沒錯那部長另外就是說投資詐騙是單件的財損很高是而且政府投下大筆的預算去促使這一些下架的這種狀況那發生頻率現在最高而且 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
5192.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
5212.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
嚴重影響年輕人這種假網拍的這樣的一個狀況也不能因為他的當案金額比較低而放鬆他的一個警惕那我現在要請教你說我們面對這種低金額高數量的民生網拍的詐騙那數位部的這樣的一個人力跟預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
5213.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
5238.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
有沒有能力去承擔這樣一個長期的挑戰來簡單說明一下的確我們在那個經費上面會有相當大的壓力所以我們希望說立法院能多支持我們我們今年的預算趕快省然後趕快讓我們能投入新的研發那在那個AI的model方面我們每個月都會用最新的詐騙的資料去訓練黃天志跟楊太必須要做調整是我們每個月都會 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
5239.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
5243.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
而且必須跟教育部合作我們對於校園的宣傳針對23歲以下的年輕人對這種網路的詐騙購物的詐騙必須要作為教育宣傳的一個重點另外我們針對我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
5255.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
5277.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
台灣的海底電纜的安全必須要來討論一下我們的海底電纜目前台灣有15條的國際通訊海纜有10條的國內通訊的海纜那國內離島的這些電纜它容量有限而且備援不足而且容易被漁船或者是挖泥船來破壞 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
5278.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
5298.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
那當然我們為了強化離島的這種通訊的韌性政府有推動相關的台碼4號台澎4號以及澎金4號預計在2026年的New Year會全數的完工那我們現在必須要來討論就是說面對中共 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
5299.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
5308.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
用這種影子 艦隊形式發動的這種混合戰啊政府雖然已經修正了海欄棋法但實際上啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
5309.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
5333.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
我們還是面臨很大的一個實務的困境那我們看到以宏泰58號漁廠為例這個多戈級的這樣的一個貨輪宏泰58號雖然中華電信也對他們提起民事的一些求償而且法院也判定了判刑三年船長判刑三年而且需要賠償1822萬但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
5337.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
5362.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
這個執行你也知道執行難度非常的高那面對中共以這種影子艦隊來這種形式發動的混合戰實務上我們面臨到一些困境那我們數位部如何確保沒收這種犯罪的傳播這樣一個強而有力的執法工具能夠在2026年能夠確實發揮嚇阻作用來簡單說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
5367.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
5390.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
OK 這個首先就是說我們必須跟那個海巡署這邊合作就是說在發生這些事情的時候要收集各種證據那另外我們這邊我們在任信司這邊我們現在也訂出了就是明確的這個這個就是在事後如何鑑識說到底是那個實際上是那個是不小心割斷的還是說是人為破壞的這個我們有一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
5391.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5414.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
部長我必須要提醒我們必須要對於平緩在海南周邊徘徊而且關閉這種自動識別系統就是AIS的這種無名船隻海軍署他們有說要做環島的智慧型的岸際的監控是沒錯這個什麼時候會跟數位部來進行合作跟對接 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5419.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5432.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
實踐真正的這種海陸空一體的這種韌性的強化來謝謝委員的詢詢委員非常了解這一題那基本上我們除了電液業者AS做監控以外另外就是海巡署岸基雷達 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5432.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5433.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
我們也必須去推廣我們國產的這種DAS的監控技術 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5461.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5483.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
我們必須要補助海南業者在關鍵的上岸段的全面來安裝這種分散式的光纖感測的技術就是ADS來主動預警這些傳播異常下錨的這種行為我們必須要強化跟各機關的合作層級 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5485.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5512.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
我必須很嚴肅的提出我們要整合海巡 數位部 交通部 國防部相關的審查跟應變的這些功能縮短這種斷纜之後的這種行政作業的相關的時間那今天以上也請部長必須要全力的一個督促謝謝委員的提醒跟支持 謝謝好 謝謝李坤哲委員的發言那我們接下來請楊瓊英委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5523.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5548.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
謝謝主席 陽勤發言 邀請部長我們請部長安委員早安 部長早那立法院在去年年底我們三讀通過人工智慧基本法我們目的要求書法部必須要建立跟國際接軌的AI風險分類的一個框架也協助我們各機關主管機關單位採取與風險為基礎的管理規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5552.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5569.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
但是據查目前我們所提出的這個框架主要是以風險檢核表方式由各部會自行去盤點應用情境並勾選分類的這個類型是不是如此 目前進度是不是如此 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5570.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5578.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
是 我們現在就是由蘇發布 你的那個人工智慧風險分類框架基本上已經完成了那部長 你有沒有認為 如果只有歸類到這個程度那恐導致整個監理的標準不一 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5591.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5620.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
而且也很難去釐清高風險的AI發生爭議時的一個責任歸屬產生這樣的一個情況請教部長那麼未來速發部看到這樣的一個面向那麼是否你會去規劃因為這個非常的重要建立具有運輸力的一個統一的管理機制而不是只有停留在各部會你讓他自我檢核的一個程式 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5621.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5649.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
委員這個問題非常好事實上我們目前這樣子立法就是因為當初歐盟的EU AI Act在立法的時候它是明確的列出所有的風險的分級然後它因為是從中央等於說中央的層級去列出這些結果在各個部會當然是歐盟沒有各個部會就是說實際上去執行的時候因為譬如說是醫療方面的AI使用跟金融跟交通都不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5650.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5665.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
類別完全不一那既然你已經看到這個已經看到這個那你要如何的去做一個統一可以有約束力的一個管理機制這一個管理機制是非常的重要是這個法的精髓請做說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5666.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5685.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
所以我們現在立法是三層的架構最上層是人工智慧基本法在人工智慧基本法之下由速發部訂定人工智慧風險分類框架指引然後在這個指引之下就會由衛福部他去訂就是說AI使用在醫院裡面我要怎樣才能通過認證然後到時候如果發生醫療問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5687.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5714.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
你現在的說法還是由目前是由各部會各機關自己去勾選自己去決定他到底有沒有這個風險然後再來決定那到底要不要啟動所以本期還是跟你強調既然是速發部你的位階在這裡你更應該要有一個統一管理的機制因為陳儒我們每一天你們目前五千到一萬的這個詐騙表示 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5718.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5725.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
比這個更多是沒錯你還可以這麼輕鬆這個人民已經受不了了人民已經受不了了而且委員委員的這個層次更是需要在數位部裡頭你的角色辦也很重要這個機制跟委員報告一下我們現在在勾選在盤點並不是我就停在這裡這是我們事情的開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5741.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5763.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
好事情的開始請你將你這個管控約束率的機制那再給本席你預計要怎麼做接下來本席要跟你討論的這個過程這個立法的過程在整個過程當中當然立法你就要去執行資嘛所以本席再來跟你討論的AI發展的這個高度呢那目前為止很大量的這個網路資料的一個訓練網路的爬蟲我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5768.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5787.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
過去是灰色地帶但是現在已經成為產業基礎非常重要的設施在整個國際網路的服務商裡頭他甚至在提供反爬的機制反爬的機制的同時他更開放了合規的爬取API |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5787.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5811.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
那所以在這樣的一個情況之下呢在網站的資料他得以授權在這個跟規範下去爬曲喔他運用在於AI模型的訓練以及資料庫的一個建置那顯示在全球裡頭是從無序一直到現在是走向制度化的一個授權跟技術的一個控管 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5812.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5821.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
它是一個新型的一個治理模式在這樣的一個情況之下我們似乎還是停滯在研議以及指引的這個階段所以本席具體要請教因為現在在整個內容的授權跟資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5829.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5854.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
的運用裡頭這麼大量會產生很多的一個衝突樣態會產生所以本校請教部長在我們針對於AI資料爬取跟平台提供的爬取的服務的管理你什麼時候會提出具體的制度以及法制的一個架構我們要很明確的去規劃出平台內容提供業者以及AI開發的這個責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5856.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5871.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
請說說你基本上對於那個網路爬蟲的管理我們從兩個方面來處理第一個是從那個就是有一個每一個網站事實上他在那個目錄跟目錄底下可以有一個叫robots.txt對不起這個是比較技術性的 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5872.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5898.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
你可以在那個文件裡面你宣示說你歡迎不歡迎這些網路爬蟲來做網路爬雪的動作那這個事情當然是防君子不防小人但是現在國際的那些大廠譬如說OpenAI譬如說Anthropic他都會依照這個規範如果你在明確宣示說我不歡迎網路爬蟲的話他們就不會來做爬雪動作然後這件事情我們速發部現在已經在做推廣告訴所有的台灣這個非常重要是 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5898.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5914.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
部長這個非常的重要一定要好好的去推廣因為這個明確性對整個國際的接軌是非常的重要最後一個議題也就是在這個詐騙集團大量的運用AI製作的一個身為影像 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5915.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5917.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
這個已經讓整個台灣造成了非常不知道如何生活的一個樣態已經產生這個因子的一個恐懼所以你在3月18號你也說要用科技對抗科技 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5932.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5936.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
那你通知平台的部分你下架近30萬筆的詐騙訊息那雖然我們推廣了廣告實名制AI內容的標示跟跨部會的科技防詐機制但是目前為止 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5947.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5950.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
還是在於行政的一個協調那似乎缺乏了一個強制的規範跟法律的一個責任因為詐騙集團 尤其這個通膨症這個越來越嚴重的情況之下 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5964.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5985.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
那讓詐騙似乎更有機可乘在這樣的一個情況之下要怎麼樣有效的去遏止新型態的AI詐騙我想這個規範是非常的重要所以本席具體要請教你要怎麼樣明確這個法律責任跟這個監理的一個機制而不是只有靠平台的一個制律 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5987.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
6000.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
這個在法律面來講分成兩部分來講第一個我們是希望所有AI生成的影像都必須標示明確標示它是AI生成的那這件事情我們那個你所謂的必須標示當然民眾希望啊什麼時候可以落實 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
6001.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
6020.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
這個因為我們必須跟美國的因為現在這些你現在談的進度怎麼樣請教你認為成功率如何兩個禮拜前我到Google在那個San Francisco的那個總部已經跟他們談過一次然後隔一個禮拜以後他們那個亞太區的總裁馬上就跑來找我我們在會談中都有談到這個事情有一個溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
6021.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
6050.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
那你認為你預估什麼時候可以讓民眾來放心有這個標誌我們現在先從那個勸說的方式希望他們去主動標示那在立法因為這個立法當然還有立法的過程那我們現在希望說就是說不用動到立法那個Google或者是Meta這樣的平台都能合作那目前我們已經得到Google的友善回應他們願意往這個方向去發展那你認為什麼時候可以開始讓我們民眾可以安心 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
6050.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
6079.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
我們是希望說在六個月之內一個月之內我們是希望六個月之內對 但是這是我們的希望那因為這個當然你要有一個KPI指標才能夠去落實嘛所以這個時間本席認為應該還可以再縮短部長一定要加油因為民眾我們會努力跟他們溝通是希望有一個依據有一個依據要不然不要讓政府讓人民認為是曠熱廢食你保護不了受害者那你也管控不了 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
6080.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
6087.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
詐騙者啊 是 沒錯 沒錯 好不好 好啊 加油 謝謝 好 謝謝委員好 謝謝楊瓊玉委員的質詢 也謝謝部長那接下來我們請林俊憲召委質詢好 謝謝主席 本席邀請我們順化部林部長 還請林部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
6106.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
6129.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
林委員早安部長早部長最近有發生LINE的資料外洩的問題LINE在台灣的市佔率多少你知道嗎在通訊軟體LINE的市佔率大概90%那它的使用滲透率真正有在使用通訊軟體 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
6131.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
6157.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
大概有百分之九十三啦是就十五歲到六十五歲是這個市佔率九成啦是就是大概壟斷了啦是那第二個使用滲透率九十三那幾乎是全民在使用是九成三每個人都在用耐啦是所以在台灣啦我可以說啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
6158.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
6179.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
在通訊軟體LINE是絕對的主導的一個平台沒有第二第二離他非常遠所以台灣人很奇怪全民都愛用LINELINE如果出現安全的危機這個影響非常大這一次大概有多少人受害 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
6180.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
6208.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
市長你有沒有講過還有為什麼就是某一家電信公司的用者好像是台哥大他用者幾乎都是他的台哥大使用者被駭客盜取那個帳號為什麼目前台哥大他接貨的那個客宿只有16件但是據我們了解這個數目量受害的民眾遠超過16個人那很多人可能是發生這個問題以後他沒有去進行客宿那 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
6210.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
6238.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
這個事情就是基本上是兩個就是我們先講說那個台灣大哥大事實上發生這個問題的帳號大部分是來自於那個台灣之星的帳號因為之前台灣大哥大病了台灣之星然後台灣之星那些帳號原來他在設定他的語音信箱的密碼就是有一個固定的就是0000或者1234所以駭客知道這個事情以後他們就是利用這個漏洞去表示這個就是有資安漏洞啦是對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
6239.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
6262.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
那你如果出事情就以他在台灣的壟斷地位那就影響到很多人所以我也想要跟部長提一件事如果消費者使用就客戶使用奈受害了那奈能夠做哪些事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
6263.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
6275.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
我說政府對於使用者的保護OK你知不知道其實使用者跟耐亞他是有一個定型化契約是蘇團署有沒有來林署長來這個這個就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
6282.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
6311.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
我們消費者這應該是書端書寫的啦說不寫的電信化契約這個電信化契約裡面他就寫著這個是適用於任何的通訊平台不是只有那裡啦如果你招冒用就你的帳號被冒用了那麼這個平台應該要回復到該帳號的使用來保護使用者嘛第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
6312.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
6342.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
如果你經營者的系統被突破不法入侵或破壞那麼你要採取合理的措施趕快給他回覆並且對於消費者所受的損害要負培養責任那這個定型化契約啊 有啦這政府訂的喔那根本啦 沒有在執行也沒有辦法做到保護消費者就是使用者的權利啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
6343.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
6371.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
你如果被盜用了 那麼你的帳號是沒有辦法完全恢復如果你沒有綁Google 沒有綁什麼line會叫你重新申請一個帳號 這第一個啦第二個 你的帳號被冒用以後那麼line它只能恢復你部分的功能就你有花錢買了一些東西啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
6372.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
6400.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
那其他的你的好友不見了你參加的群組都不見了你的好友你還要一個一個去加回來那你之前在跟好友之間的彼此之間往來的資訊還有你加入的群組全部都不見了這完全沒有達到我們速發部的跟業者以及消費者之間你所訂出來的這個定型化契約 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
6401.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
6430.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
是不是這樣子那署長你的意見是 跟委員回報NITE的部分在這件事情的處理就是陳副委員剛剛講的不過他現在正在調查受損的使用者有多少所以我們還沒有跟他再洽談進一步的這個定期化企業的法徵的問題你沒有回答我的問題啦OK 我來說明NITE不是現在才發生使用者被冒用帳號被盜用從以前到現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
6431.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
6444.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
只要你的那出問題那公司都沒有辦法回覆你了是那他也不會賠償你了那你的資料所有的東西通通不見了跟委員說明一下我們如果說以最近發生的這件事情來講的話這個事實上 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
6446.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6467.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
是兩家公司兩個不是很大的資安漏洞但是這兩個資安漏洞結合起來就變成一個大的資安漏洞那這個責任歸屬到底是在台灣大哥大還是在line上面我想這個可能就是說到時候會必須是我是消費者我是使用者你們之間的責任那關我什麼事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6468.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6484.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
你要回復我的權益啊按照這個契約寫的你的帳號要還我啊那我之前在這個通訊平台裡面的內容資料你要還我啊你要復原啊否則你就不要訂這樣的一個契約嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6485.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6488.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
對於系統遭不法入侵或破壞那這個事情其實在解釋上面就是對賴來講的話那是因為你現在給我講 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6504.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6507.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
是最近發生的事從以前到現在都不做這種事任何通訊軟體都沒有依照我們電信化契約去做回覆帳號還有他的內容從來沒有因為我們在那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6520.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6540.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
再好友做一個叫做再次登入的功能就是你如果說帳號被盜然後在24小時之內你當部長你去了解清楚沒有問題這個事情你的耐使用者你的好友就全部消失了你要一個一個加回來你的群組就都沒了你買一個一個去找回來 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6541.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6565.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
所以要嘛你就修改電信外企業你做不到你就不要下你如果寫出來你就要求通訊軟體業者你要做到這樣的事情是我們會強烈監督一年來LINE的客戶投資有多少件這個我不知道這個要跟LINE才會知道你們的資料有啊大概有我掌握資訊大概五千多件一百多件 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6568.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6584.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
等一下這個是講的是說給倒數殘除的那個倒數殘除的客戶數是不是還是倒賴的客戶數五千多件啦那很多就是他的客戶的資料會消失啦所以我想說喔寶丁既然 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6585.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6601.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
國人幾乎通訊軟體都是使用LINE市佔率到達九成使用者滲透率是93%幾乎就是台灣的國民通訊軟體那麼我們就應該要求LINE啊任何系統都可能會發生類似這種 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6604.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6624.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
這些安全漏洞你要趕快把它補起來你要加強你的防護不要再發生如果萬一發生了那麼你應該做到至少按照我們契約上寫的你要維護消費者的權利因為帳號要行人家原來帳號裡面的內容你要給人家恢復 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6626.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6643.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
是對不對不然我們政府這個進行外宣你你就改你就改做不到你就不要寫委員那個我們這個絕對會努力的但是這個因為個案每一個個案裡面都是通常會有些部署那我希望部署要特別重視這個事情因為LINE這個通訊軟體 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6644.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6670.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
特別不一樣全世界任何國家沒有一個通訊軟體市佔率這麼高的是相對的喔這個已經有已經達到我們國安層級了我都是直接找他們台灣的董事長還有那個日本的那個團隊直接來談如果那有一天他整個掛掉了我們彼此之間大家都沒有辦法聯絡是喔是是是這樣好不好好沒問題好 部長請抓不在努力喔好 我們會加油的好 謝謝部長好 謝謝主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6671.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6677.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
好 謝謝我們林議員專委的發言 謝謝部長我們接下來請魯明哲委員發言那我們在稍後陳書偉委員發言之後休息10分鐘好 謝謝主席 有請我們書委部林部長好 我們請林部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6698.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6715.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
部長早好直接進入主題資安及國安這個是現在全民都很了解這個問題特別看到你的業務報告針對於這個資安問題你有從多面向立體性的希望能夠架構資安的一個網包括建構資安 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6717.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6743.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
智慧化的資安資安防禦的生態系打造資安科研團隊跟資安人才的培育我覺得這中間最重要的是資安的人才的培育是非常非常重要的因為很多的不管系統在AI在資安的一個防守端面對每一天的一個變化你真的好我覺得這樣的一個專家的人才培育是非常重要的那你現在整個資安 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6744.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6771.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
我們的數位部站在第一線我們資安人才守得怎麼樣我們現在那個資安人才坦白講非常的缺因為台灣事實上資安產業非常的強他們開出的薪資條件非常好所以我們在留才的方面我們的確是遇到不少的挑戰所以我們想辦法就是提高我們資安人員的這個家籍還有一些那個留任的獎金等等我們想辦法把好的人才留住好 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6772.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6800.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
這個部長資安人才這麼難找又少了三位又少了三位是所以發展部滿滿的資安的一個願景政策結果沒想到這個案子敵人就在本能室就是我們認為說資安是一堵牆我們不光是自己資安守得好是整個國家的單位協助他們甚至有能力對一個重大的一個民間單位這是大家的一個期待是結果我們這個城牆裡面居然這個是3月20號 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6804.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6825.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
這個競電室的報導 當然很多新聞都有出來了這個標題實在是很難聽啦 最強內鬼就出現在國家治安院研究員寫成是害自家的系統 攝雲端包括許願池啊 因為XMAX計畫等等的都不管嘛下面講的 包括原來有分級制的機密 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6826.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6852.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
機密文件結果因為這個系統一些也跳脫了不能看的也看了然後一次這個全部下載我覺得這個東西很離譜就是我們在這邊從唐鳳部長一直到林部長我們從第一天跟我們保證說成立數位部也好 數發部不管你怎麼叫它最大的目的最基本的一件事你知道嗎 最基本的最基本的一件事就要做到的結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6853.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6875.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
我們沒有做到居然在治安院裡面請問一下你是幾月幾號知道的這件事情我們在部長你幾月幾號接到報告你是說我還是那個我大概是一個多月前知道的三月幾號我不記得確定我大概知道大概一個多月前知道但是確實的事情我講不出來請一下院長院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6877.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6901.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
院長你知道這件事情這個嚴重程度不光是這個事件那事件我就不太描述了新聞媒體都有不管他怎麼說這三個人反正已經被不管解職了移送法辦了我也理解你知道這個事情嚴重在什麼因為這些人才怎麼來的誰選的什麼時候來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6903.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6925.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
我跟你講 數位發展部是民國111年8月份才成立的帶著國人的期待 國家安全 資安及國安這樣的有你們多一層保障這樣的運營而生的結果資安院呢 是在112年隔一年的2月10號才掛牌正式成立 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6926.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6934.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
我們資安署又得力的駐守了很多的部分研究發展最棒的資安院來了當時我幾次前院長也跟我們溝通現在我發覺他在跟我們講的過程中就有人在惡搞了我就回想那段時間跟笑話一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6947.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6974.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
這是第一個那第二個是這個人三個人中間有一個位階是總監他是一個中心的總監除了主任副主任第三個就是總監實務性的很多作物都是作業總監在操作那這個總監這個職務不是一般研究員一個總監帶頭在幹這件事情他不是在總理他是他在監守治道的總監 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6976.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6994.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
但是他是在治安院112年2月10號成立他的任用日期是112年的1月16號也就是他是創院元老我跟你講不是唐東部長用的就是什麼眾中之眾人才請問一下這個人誰用的資歷是不是比你還早 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6999.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
7015.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
這位是這位主管是在資安院成立前就有一個資安卓越中心的成立那在兩年前更早的兩年前的成立的時候就進來然後隨著資安院成立並入資安院 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
7015.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
7033.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
所以有人看到會是112年的1月中他直接就轉過來了嘛對不對好 重中之重但不管嘛因為人才你要講這麼多願景要找適合人才尤其在治安的部分你自己要做好嘛就一來你給一個會這樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
7036.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
7053.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
寫爬蟲城市自己在裡面弄來弄去這樣的人做了總監做了總監第二個他任用日期等於你職在院從第一天開始就在一個不安全之下因為之前不是你啦我是覺得這個事情是真的有很多思考的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
7055.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
7078.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
那我一樣問院長院長我請問一下這個去年12月你們內部巡查發現真的啦我不是治安專家啦內部巡查我問了一下你說例行性的結果後面剪掉一查已經搞了一年多請問一下例行性是多例行是每一天run一次還是一個月例行一次你說一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
7079.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
7103.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
我們有經常性的以及年度的那我們這個檢查是在年度的時候發現的一年度一次 平常不檢查平常就有檢查 但是年度的檢查是會所以他要持續在這裡那個資訊你平常的前幾次在持續中你檢查不到是你巡查的方式 巡查的軟體 巡查的手段出了問題你是治安院 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
7104.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
7133.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
蠻可怕的他已經一年多了結果在他抓到了12月那他11月呢 10月呢你之前的尋查咧你的警覺度在哪裡你告訴別人要警覺這個東西出了很大的問題你查到之後最後叫這個調查局進場然後你們三月多為什麼這麼久我不知道你們兩個距離這麼遠部長你來回答一下好不好那時候那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
7136.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
7158.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
部長他12月發現 其實是蠻嚴重的包括他2月11號他知道報請調查局就已經報到外面的單位了我們知道當時還沒有報到部裡面你覺得這種制度好嗎這件事情是由資安院主動發現然後他們主動找那個調查局不用跟你們 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
7160.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
7187.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
知會嗎這麼重要的事情當然要跟我知會他們在那個找調查局的時候就已經跟我講說他們去找調查局了因為這個事情的發生像這種資安事件因為必須收集那個機證那在收集機證的過程中事實上是非常保密的就是說只有那個負責這件事情的幾位資安院的主管知道這件事情然後他們在收集到足夠的證據以後他趕快來跟我報告部長你要保密的是所有資安的資料是 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
7188.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
7210.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
你現在跟我講說你要保密這個犯罪的人我叫他 他該不該針對這個犯罪事件有三個人發生什麼事 細節不一定要跟你講跟資料外洩有什麼關係啊我覺得你會被害到 你知道嗎是 我也很擔心啊哪裡別人問到你 你問三不知我覺得這不是面子的問題這件事情就是說在 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
7212.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
7237.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
應該就是一個多月以前他們已經來跟我報告所以我都有掌握到這個狀況那因為一開始我們也不曉得說那個牽涉的範圍到底是多大所以這個當然是在這個調查的過程中當初是非常好最後一個問題請教你那現在三位實質有涉及刑罰犯罪資安不管問題的人現在已經檢調在調查很清楚那你這個中心的主任副主任 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
7239.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
7261.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
主任副主任 咖啡好喝嗎 茶好喝嗎 還要喝多久就跟我沒關係 他的總監犯了一年多 時間一年多治安的問題然後咧 到總監犯這種事情 所以你主任副主任是擺設是沒有用的 或者沒有技術能力的院長你說說看 主任副主任要不要負行政責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
7263.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
7283.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
確實是有行政責任我們內部也深切檢討那因為在資安的內部監控這是我們資訊處資訊的同仁在負責不是那個中心的主管在負責所以這一部分的督導不屬於他們的責任你知道嗎你的員工在做什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
7286.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
7311.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
他完全都不知道他裡面已經有很多傳來傳去說該怎麼樣去做麻煩你寫爬中程式你要該怎麼樣去做然後有兩個人是元老一個人是就後面才來的整個體系在你眼前在那邊去做所以你就坐在辦公室嗎你什麼都不知道所以未來我們對於你這個七個中心的唯一期待主任副主任他 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
7314.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
7336.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
下面有任何重大的事情如果你要記得一件事喔這件事情可大可小還在查證中喔如果事情爆得非常大的時候你在處理的時候那不是這樣喔所以他這樣的一個行為主任副主任勢必是要負責他一個直屬主管監督的一個責任部長 部長你在最後再做個回答好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
7336.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
7354.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
是 當然部長你管的機構這麼多我想說一句話是你也經常要必須負一些行政的一個責任政治的責任去負責你根本不知道的事情是對不對 什麼院是發生什麼事什麼署下面的什麼科什麼事到最後請問一下大家會不會來 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
7356.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
7373.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
向你找答案 一定嘛 你跑不掉嘛你是主管所以我也希望你跟治安院好好去講一下這件事情不能說誰犯錯就其他沒事 大家繼續我覺得絕對不行這件事情有嚴重的管理問題要去處理管理商的問題我們絕對會處理這不管怎樣 我們絕對會處理謝謝委員提醒謝謝好 謝謝魯明哲委員的發言也謝謝我們部長接下來我們請陳樹越委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
7396.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
7400.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
好 謝謝主席 請主席邀請林部長好 我們請林部長委員長 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
7408.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
7429.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
部長早 現在資訊化的時代 尤其是AI的這個運用的技術真的是日新月異 進步非常的快可是AI我們也知道 它的運用如果是用在好的 正向的當然對整個國家的競爭力 產業的發展是有很大的幫助 如果是用到 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
7429.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
7450.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
不好的方面當然就是會造成社會的不安就是擾亂社會那我們也看到就是說最近國安局他有有一份報告就是揭露了中共認知戰的五大手法這五大手法第一個他當然就是說透過的數據分析來就是分析我們台灣社會的一個動態再透過這個分析來了解我們目前的 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
7455.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
7481.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
可能是社會的輿論的主題啦或者是社會的狀況然後再透過第二個就是建制多元管道投放爭議的訊息來擾亂社會或者是利用異常的帳號滲透輿論還有運用AI生成泥漿的影像或者是進行枉害盜用國人的帳號這些手法主要都是要來破壞我們社會的一個安定其實那他的這五大手法 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
7481.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
7504.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
基本上跟我們速發部也都是息息相關的所以今天就是要來請教一下部長就是說針對這樣子的一個威脅我們速發部可以有什麼樣的一個具體的作為我們先來看一下就是有關多元我們舉例這個多元管道投放爭議的訊息最近應該部長也有注意到吧就是一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
7505.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7513.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
很受到注目的一個訊息在群組這是基層群組或者是網路平台就是有這樣子一個訊息 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7514.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7542.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
在被轉傳大量的轉傳說這個高鐵還有台鐵有一個新的規定有一個優惠的措施結果造成了這個就是高鐵的服務人員真的是不堪其擾那這樣子的一個狀況據我了解高鐵公司他們也有透過就是說希望我們抒發部可以來協助把這一則訊息下架那我們抒發部當時我們是怎麼來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7545.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7567.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
像這類的那種假的那個訊息那通常我們這邊的做法基本上分成幾個方面如果說它是獨立的網站的話我們會透過DNS、RPG的方式把這個整個網域把它封住掉那如果是一些在平台上譬如說是在YouTube或者在Meta上面的話那我們就會收到這個譬如說交通部他通知我們以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7567.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7587.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
我們就會通知這些平台也趕快把這個訊息下架那一個關鍵就是說這個判斷必須是由主管機關在以這個這件事情來講應該是交通部他只要通知我我們就盡快去處理那這個我們想我們的目標就是縮短這個下架的時間防止這個訊息去擴散 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7589.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7610.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
據我所了解是說高鐵公司有跟我們速發部反映之後你們是要他們自己去檢舉啊要他們自己跟YouTube平台去檢舉所以他們也花了很大的功夫才把這個訊息下架可是也拖延了一段時間那據說好像舊的版本下架了又有新的版本產生所以這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7613.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7639.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
的狀況真的一直在循環真的是會造成我們社會的一個不安尤其他的這個用語我覺得真的根本就是共產黨的用語說勇於爭取鼓勵這些長輩要勇於爭取不然你的福利就會喪失掉了所以我覺得這個真的對我們的這個社會民心這個影響很大所以我們也希望就是說如何阻斷假資訊的一個快速 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7640.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7657.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
傳播我想這個部分我們速發部應該要有所作為是沒錯那我們這邊現在在推動的一件事情就是我們會要求各大平台上面如果有那個AI產生的影像那個或者影片的話他必須去標示明確的標示說這是AI產生的那這個在技術上 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7660.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7689.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
事實上是可以做到的那個幾個方面可以做到第一個是一些比較大的這個公司它所產生的AI影像事實上會有浮水印那這些浮水印也許我們眼睛看不到但是都是可以用軟體可以來偵測的到的那我們現在就是去跟Google跟那個Meta我們去跟他們去談那就是希望說以後這些影片它都要明確的表示這個是一個AI產生的影片那我想請教一下部長就是說剛剛我們秀的這一張圖卡它有 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7690.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7692.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
AI的一個標示嗎 有一個提醒嗎這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7695.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7722.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
這個在YouTube 抱歉個案我不是那麼清楚這個在YouTube上面轉傳的 傳播的因為我們剛才講的就是Google跟YouTube然後跟Meta這個部分比較好處理比較難處理的是Line因為Line是個人通訊產品因為我們國家的憲法會保障個人通訊的自由秘密通訊的自由所以這個地方我們在要求Line去處理的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7723.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7738.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
沒有問題這個事情我們跟LINE想辦法去溝通我們也希望他做標示YouTube的平台啦這個影片是從那邊傳出來的嘛所以這個部分就是希望我們抒發部這邊應該要有很明確的具體的一個作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7739.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7768.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
好謝謝委員提醒那我們現在跟那個YouTube平台我是兩個禮拜前去San Francisco跟他們的總部去那邊談然後一個禮拜前他們那個亞太區總台又來台灣跟我談他目前釋放的訊息是正面的但是看來他們速度還是不夠快我們會催促他們盡快把這些機制看能不能盡快把它弄上去是好那我們接下來看就是中共他也會利用這個假帳號來滲透我們的社群媒體的平台就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7769.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7790.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
在我們國內如果說有些什麼重大的活動啦或者是重大的一個爭議的一些遊行活動的時候就會有很多的這個假帳號在鼓吹就是大家來參與或者是什麼一些不實的言論之類的啦那針對這些大量的假帳號我們到底可不可以怎樣去阻絕 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7791.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7817.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
不要造成我們就是影響到社會的一個靈性這個問題又分成兩個部分一個是有一些帳號那個機器人帳號他會發假訊息那另外一個其實可能更嚴重的是什麼一些所謂的殭屍粉就是一個訊息出來以後下面一大堆點讚可能一萬個點讚其中有九千個其實是機器人帳號的點讚那這個事情一樣我們也是跟這個大型平台我們在溝通我們希望他去認證說這是真人的帳號 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7820.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7839.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
因為在中國他們是用網路實名制那通常在民主國家我沒辦法直接做網路實名制但是我們希望透過類似像是我們現在數位憑證批加等這個科技的技術就是認證而且是自願性的認證說我這個帳號是不是一個真人是不是一個台灣人他所開設的帳號 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7840.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7854.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
那在這個技術上應該是可行的那同樣的我們也是努力的在跟這個Google還有Meta這種國際的大平台努力跟他們溝通希望就是說他們在為了他們自己的商譽著想他們趕快把這些功能把它加上去 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7855.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7883.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
是好那我們接下來看就是有關運用AI生成擬真影音影片的這個部分那我們看到這樣子的一個就是用AI生成的假影音的這個狀況真的也是層出不窮那最近兩個就是很經典的很指標性的有一個是他用偽造就是一群學生他自稱說是台北市立建國高中的 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7884.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7910.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
建國高中建中的學生然後自己標榜說他們說台灣是中國的那當然這樣子的影音因為以我們台灣人的認知知道說建中就是南校所以一看就會知道這個是假的那另外一則就是編造這個于北辰將軍說稱讚這個解放軍軍演這樣子的一個編造的一個影音那針對這樣子的一個AI |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7912.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7922.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
就是變造的假影像這部分我們速發布有沒有什麼就是手段可以去做一些反制啦或者是防範的 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7923.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7943.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
OK 除了我剛剛講的這個一般性的AI那個身為的影音之外那我們就是希望用標誌的方式來處理那另外就是對於公眾人物像于北辰將軍的話我們會這個我們會想辦法把它加入我們這個網照通報查詢網裡面的公眾人物保護名單那我們會通知那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7943.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7958.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
Google YouTube這個平台就是他們用AI的技術發現如果是假冒這個不是于北辰將軍的帳號而假冒他影片的話他們應該是可以主動去進行一些攔阻的那另外我們的網站通報查詢網我們會 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7959.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7981.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
我們接下來趕快通知那個於北陳將軍就是說如果他遇到這種狀況趕快利用我們的通報查詢網來通知我們我們就可以很快的把這些訊息給下架了我們很重要的一件事情就是我們要縮短這些詐騙或者是假訊息的上架時間然後時間越短受害人數越少而且這個詐騙集團他的成本就會越高 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7982.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
8009.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
是 那其實就是最近這應該是半年來啦就是有關這樣子的一個變造AI變造影像的其實除了于北辰將軍之後我們也有看到變造賴清德總統的變造那個政務副院長的這些影片那我不曉得說這些AI變造的就是有像部長剛剛說的就是說因為是公眾人物我們就主動去發炫的嗎有這樣的狀況嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
8010.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
8039.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
通常公眾人物那個就是我們如果是本人確認的話我們收到這個通知的話那我們就是有這個有這個依據我們就可以很快的去處理事實上也必須講就是說依照這個各國的法律應該都是這樣就是說公眾人物的肖像權保護反而是比較弱的比一般民眾是比較弱的那這個地方我們會想辦法在那個言論自由跟那個保護我們國家的安全上面我們必須取得一個平衡那我們會努力往這個方向去處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
8039.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
8063.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
好我想時間關係我最後再問你就是我們知道人工智慧基本法就是在二零二五年十二月二十三號已經三讀通過了就是一個基本法那當然我們的法令的一個制定都是我們都是朝向正面的一個方向那可是我們看到事實上我們面對這個中共這個邪惡的政權他們是利用這樣子的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
8064.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
8087.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
科技來要破壞我們的民主然後擾亂我們社會的一個安定所以就是說對我們國內啊如果說面對這些AI技術的一個就是變造啦或者是不好的這種運用的話我們在未來的這個就是這個基本法之後的指引上我們會可以有什麼樣的一個方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
8088.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
8112.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
OK 我們這個人工智慧基本法其中就是很大的一個目的就是要控管AI的風險那我們現在就是速發部我們事實上是三層立法架構在人工智慧基本法下面我們速發部訂定的人工智慧風險分類框架指引然後在這個指引下面我們會讓各個部會去訂那個作用法 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
8112.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
8120.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
那這個事情我們已經啟動因為我們現在那個風險範圍框架已經做好現在已經在那個要等 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
8121.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
8147.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
在行政院那邊等著他們審議然後但是我們為了爭取時間已經先啟動跟那個各個部會就討論這個事情那譬如說國安的方面我們一定會找那個陸委會或者是國安單位我們會跟他討論接下來我們要怎樣進行立法或者是修法想辦法把各種漏洞堵住然後我們速發部也很重大的職責就是提供技術的方法還有這個執行這個所有這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
8150.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
8163.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
違法的訊息的下架跟封鎖的事情在這邊也要建議速發部因為AI的技術進步非常快速 運用也會非常的廣泛 那我們也希望速發部應該隨時去收集觀察就是說在 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
8168.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
8186.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
這個運用上呈現的一個樣態尤其是不好的那我們應該要來做我們未來有因應的就是一些措施的一個參考是 好 謝謝謝謝委員的提醒跟支持 謝謝好 謝謝我們陳蘇瑞委的發言 謝謝部長那我們現在先休息十分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
8217.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
8219.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
可以了嗎?可以了 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
8224.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
8226.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
蘑菇蘑菇 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
8253.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
8279.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
一般都是在外面接觸過來的就是那裡發生的對 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
8285.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
8285.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
謝謝觀看 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
8291.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
8305.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
海公,海公,海公一號的海公,海公一號的海公,海公一號的 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
8329.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
8329.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
市長請問 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
8377.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
8378.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
這位呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
8392.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
8395.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
哦哦 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
8413.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
8414.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
謝謝大家。 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
8443.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
8447.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
這張照片叫《我家族》 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
8481.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
8487.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
嗯嗯 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
8521.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8537.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
菁姐跟你會有沒有我自治啊 自治啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8568.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8569.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
可以了 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8586.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8586.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
阿翁 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8614.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8615.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8649.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8650.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
好 開了好好 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8681.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8681.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
好 等一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8715.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8744.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
響鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8756.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8756.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
嗯嗯 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8793.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8795.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
好 我們現在繼續開會那我們現在接下來請陳青龍委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8805.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8811.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
好 謝謝主席那邀請我們市華部我們林部長來 請林部長陳委員長安好 部長早那我在這邊先一個簡單的問題是 請問部長我們的這個治安院就是我們國家自動安全研究院嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8830.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8840.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
這一個行政法人應該我們部長這邊管轄的到吧監督的到吧是我們今天院長也有來嗎不是 這個是我們專屬署長好 署長 那院長有來嗎有 也請院長好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8849.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8874.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
院長好像上洗手間好 待會警察也配訓那我判斷我也可以很精確的來確認我們部長這邊對我們治安院絕對有監督的一個責任那治安院就我了解目前有兩個問題一個問題就是治安院本身內部 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8876.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8878.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
我們的同仁 治安院的同仁有涉及我們院內的一個機密 敏感的文件 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8891.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8908.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
上傳到雲端啊然後讓各界自由的下載那這個案子啊那也經由我們的北檢去處理嘛那我們的同仁好像最後也都是 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8911.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8925.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
這個有交保嘛是這個案保證你知道嗎我知道先簡單的說明一下這個案子你了解嗎資安院院長說明這件事情分三個方面講第一個就是說這件事情是我們資安院主動發現主動找調查局來調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8927.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8942.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
然後第二點是說發現的事情是說那個院內有同仁他利用駭客的手法去閱讀他不應該閱讀的文件然後第三個部分是說他拿到這些文件以後是內部的同仁自己在看還是說外部在看嘛這件事情我們還在調查還在調查當中那其實我們檢調單位也出手了對不對這三位可能有三位吧這同仁現在也在交保候傳嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8956.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8973.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
那這樣的案子在我們國家級的一個治安的一個單位產生這樣的一個狀況好 還好是你們內部發現了 主動報案了那我請問院長 這樣的事情會再發生嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8974.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8996.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
我們內部人員的管控我們有什麼機制可以來防止這樣的事件再發生你們有什麼因應作為嗎還是跟部門調查我們主動找調查局介入調查主動我們了解嘛我現在就是的原因是因為我們擔心他資料有沒有外洩的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8997.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
9013.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
有沒有透過他的手機或個人的使用的電腦外洩那因為他的個人的家庭電腦這個還在調查當中嘛我OK跟手機是不是我們沒有權限去調查對所以你們交給調查局調查局嘛就我了解這是第一個我現在要確認的我們已經發生這樣的漏洞 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
9019.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
9042.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
再來你自然院你怎麼去防止這樣的案件類似的事件再發生我們做了幾件事就技術上我們做了很多漏洞的檢測因為這個是一個內部的系統公文的系統的漏洞那我們做了很多檢測也通知這個公文的系統有用有塑膠機你已經知道這個嚴重性了嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
9045.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
9065.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
所以我們治安院在這樣的一個治安漏洞至少我在這邊也提醒你不是光報案再來我們要怎麼防範這是重點第二個 治安院還有一個問題就是人事管理的問題我在這邊我要跟部長講 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
9069.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
9082.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
我辦公室也接獲到這個人民的一個監舉一個陳情那我循正常程序跟你知安院要所知要資料你們竟然不給 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
9085.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
9112.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
你們竟然不給 好 這個第一個你們說我要了解國家資通安全研究院主管任用及加級資歷要點我需要這樣的資料了解你的人員任用結果你對我的辦公室是這是屬於內部的管理文件未曾對外公布所以不被提供給本席但是在這樣的一個資料過程當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
9114.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
9138.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
我們已經看到治安院剛剛我講了在治安這管理有漏洞有粗暴但是你在人事任用今天給你用行政法人我了解就是要讓你更有彈性任用更有彈性但是你在這個調查裡面你回覆這樣的人員調查你看他的結論有關主管任用案 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
9145.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
9170.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
合宜的宜就代表既然你的調查報告用這個宜字就代表沒有嘛所以你的調查報告才會用這個宜這個字嘛那就代表你這個人員啊責任用沒有照你這樣子一個要點來辦理那在這個過程當中當然我尊重民治安院的人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
9172.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
9197.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
進用但是既然我們國會辦公室收到了人民的檢舉案陳情案我們要鎖職你竟然不給那也從這個資料判斷這個人員的任用應該是有狀況但是你們也置之不理置之不理所以在這個過程是不是請院長你能夠針對我剛剛的這兩個問題請你回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
9201.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
9217.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
委員所知的資料我們可以給的我們都會給這一個部分沒有給的原因是我內部的同仁跟我表示說這個部分不能給院長你認為不能給我請問部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
9219.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
9235.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
可以不可以給這個資料是機密資料嗎一個一個這個主管任用期加期的指令要件不能給連這個都不能給來部長可以給嗎如果是你可以給嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
9236.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
9245.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
這個因為要看那個那個各個法人因為他是自然院士抒發部下屬的行政法人所以他說不給就不給那你的預算該給我們也可以不給啊沒有這個有法律規定的那個有哪些是 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
9255.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
9277.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
那我要資料你說不給就不給你部長也不敢講說應該要給這樣的資料的機密嘛我們今天要一個資料你一個治安院說不給就不給那你的人員的任用從你的調查報告看出來就是有瑕疵有問號 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
9280.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
9301.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
你也不處理那我請問我請問你們去做這個調查案這樣的一個報告完你們怎麼做有人要資料不給然後人員你們那部調查完之後認為沒事情但是從文字裡面可以發覺就是有狀況有問題怎麼處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
9304.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
9327.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
我們自己的內規在更早以前訂的內規發現我們發現檢討以後發現不合時宜所以我們有做了修改是因為這件事情做了修改嗎有幾個case我們內部的幾個case會不符合那一個內規所以我們做了修正所以你們的內規一直在修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
9328.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
9346.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
所以委員辦公室要鎖這個內規來資料來瞭解你們不提供所以你們就是自己內部自己來調整自己來因人來辦理因人來調整這樣的規定對不對所以不敢提供給 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
9346.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
9350.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
因為那個內規定的時間比較久因為內規定的時間比較久那前面已經有幾個case是聘任的時候不符合就因人設施嘛因人嘛內規調整在我接任之前 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
9364.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
9366.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
在我之前因為在聘的時候沒有去注意到那個內規那後來發現聘了有幾位是不符合然後就修正了那個內規確實是來再次的告知 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
9383.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
9410.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
我們委員大家一視同仁 所知該給就給 不是提供資料第二個 既然你的內規任用人士可以因人而調整那就代表沒有制度 這個制度就是走一個形式那在這裡我也要要求你的這個人事任用的制度絕對要建立起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
9411.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
9431.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
好不好這就是一個要求啦就是一個改進法這件事情我們有深刻檢討這兩個破口你一定要處理出來嘛對不對治安院有一個治安破口人事任用的一個一個這個弱點一定要把它補起來嘛好不好我們深刻檢討好謝謝好謝謝我們陳其農委員也謝謝部長接下來我們請邱若驊委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
9450.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
9452.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
謝謝主席 請蘇巴布林部長我們請蘇巴布林部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
9460.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
9480.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
部長早部長 台灣很早就在發展AI了嘛那從當時說要推動AI行動進化然後建研究中心還有超級電腦平台打造AI國家隊AI產業鏈還有發展機器人量子AI基礎建設等那在這一次的業務報告你有提到加速產業數位創新中強調要擴充AI算力資源 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
9481.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9505.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
那在上一次委員會的時候我也請教過部長那目前那這次報告也有提到嘛要從40片GPU提升到140片沒有錯吧沒錯今年可以做到嗎如果說預算省的話我們當然如果說預算省的話那上一次本席請教您您說預算被砍了嗎那是去年的預算去年去年這方面的預算被砍掉但是今年的預算我們今年還是必須有預算才能買啊是那 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9507.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9535.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
部長是請看那上一次我問你的時候你說因為我們預算被砍掉了砍了什麼預算就是去年我們本來我們去年就打算要買一百片但是去年預算被砍了所以去年我們有買一百片嘛那四十片是前年買的所以有前年是四十片去年我們打算買一百片但是去年買了一百片的預算被砍了所以我希望委員能支持讓我們今年可以買這一百片這畫面因為這是上有上字幕的關係啊是金週刊說 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9537.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9562.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
砍了什麼都不知道我回去看我看了114年1月2號蘇巴布預算審查會議紀錄我完全沒有針對GPU的採購還有建制提出刪減案是因為我們那個素產署的其實去年的預算原來是提了40億然後被砍掉20億這個大約的數字然後因為這個砍掉以後所以造成說我們必須總是必須有取捨嘛然後就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9563.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9578.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
那部長你現在指出114年1月2號的預算審查中是哪一個提案編好砍了你的GPU的預算這個是不是能請我們素產署來說明因為那個素產署的預算是由素產署來編的跟委員簡單報告一下委員會砍了3.2億然後在黨團協商的時候砍了21億今年會提升到100片嗎預算是多少預算應該兩三億 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9590.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9600.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
兩億多部長你講到預算通案三檢是整體預算不是指定AI項目的預算再來如果通案預算影響到GPU的話那你們內部的資源配置有問題嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9603.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9624.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
總是那個預算被砍掉然後總是當然就是說我們預算都得重新分配那個40億被砍掉一半 砍掉20億這個當然是很大金額的那個那個刪減這個抱歉那個委員我並沒有說要要那個怎麼樣說我就是只是陳述一個事實並沒有什麼惡意或者什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9624.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9654.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
那算力是基礎 那你預算被砍了被砍了哪個項目你知道嗎所以我們現在的方法就是想辦法利用民間的資金那你上一次的說法是不是在誤導社會認知是那你上一次的說法是不是在誤導社會認知上次委員我問你今年可不可以從40片提升到140片這攸關我們國家的競爭力當然當然我們還是需要預算啊只要是關於國家的競爭力我一定全力支持你告訴我因為預算被砍了是 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9655.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9680.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
那你這個說法是不是在誤導社會我哪一個地方誤導社會因為預算被砍了所以沒有辦法提升到140片這是你上一次的說法這個我還是今天還是這樣講因為我們40億的預算被砍掉20億剩下20億那我就只能維持一些最基本的一些計畫在進行維持基本的計畫那你在這一次的報告23頁你有說要輔導業者建置目前40片 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9681.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9701.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
請部長說明如何輔導業者我們現在就是想辦法就利用那個把那個這個算是這個可以稱得上算力池嗎稱得上算力池嗎算力池就是一個破當然可以算是算力池啊因為就是所有的那個我們來看我們來看我們來看算力池算力池還是測試環境 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9706.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9715.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
一個中型的企業他如果要AI訓練至少需要數百顆到數千顆現在40片你告訴我如何訓練我現在請部長說明嘛你說你支持協助242家市186個業者 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9722.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9741.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
你要怎麼來協助這個就是所謂的POC就是讓他們去做實驗就是說民間的這些AI新創者他如果有什麼想法他可以來申請我們這個算力他只是做實驗來驗證他的想法並不是長期要讓他做經營的本來這個就是長期的經營這些應該是要回到市場機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9742.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9755.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
他必須去跟民間的算力中心購買算力那我們現在在做的就是鼓勵民間去設立算力中心那現在包含鴻海等這個大型企業他們都已經提出這個算力的那個算力中心的計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9759.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9780.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
我很注意我的說法那現在他們這個計畫預計大概都是以萬片來計算的算力中心這個比政府的這個算力池要大很多而且這個是可以做商業營運而且他們可以賺錢的我們一直在講就是說我們要建立的是AI的生態系建立這個AI的生態系我們希望說算力池本身可以建立AI的生態系嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9780.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9793.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
不行單單是一百片絕對不夠這個當然是不可能的事情啊所以我一直在強調我上一次我就叫部長是不是現在一百四十片在國際間具備競爭力你跟我說預算被砍了 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9796.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9812.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
那這兩者有什麼關係我只是在講說去年我們為什麼沒有買那100片因為去年本來我們列了預算要買那100片後來因為預算被砍掉以後我們就沒有錢去買那100片所以我才跟你說部長你要注意你的說法這兩者完全沒有關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9813.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9828.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
那沒關係我們接著看今天業務報告說部長你說提升全社會資安動能在第48頁提到資安業已經辦理大規模的產品漏洞獵捕活動那諷刺的是在4月1號還可以利用台哥大的語音信箱預設密碼來攔截LINE的驗證 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9829.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9845.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
今天很多委員都有執行這個問題這已經存在了20年這個問題那速發布在這件事爆發之後才被多人應對你們才去督導業者才來進行盤點我們事實上在那個新聞還沒爆出來之前我們就已經處理了這件事情我們處理得非常快那部長請問邰哥那算不算國內指標性通訊的設備廠商 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9848.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9865.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
台哥當然他不是設備廠商他是電信廠商在這件事情上好那沒關係那我們來看到這個報告在報告你們有說114年度已經辦理五國首次大規模產品漏洞獵捕活動聯合國內指標性資通信的設備廠商還有本土資安研究社群 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9865.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9893.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
針對網通設備還有跟委員說明一下所謂那個資安獵捕計畫我們是請一些設備廠商譬如說生產Router的廠商他提供他的設備那你們是不是主管機關作為資安法你們是不是主管機關這個我可以跟委員說明因為這個是非常技術性的但是這個跟台哥大沒有關係那你們是不是資安法的主管機關是 是資安法主管機關當然是那接下來那現在目前還在調查中嗎會不會開法你說那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9894.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9917.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
那個LINE跟那個邰哥大那件事情嗎你講的是哪一件事情我就是在講LINE跟邰哥大這件事情LINE跟邰哥大這個事情是兩個資安漏洞兩個那個小那個不是很嚴重的資安漏洞但是當這兩個資安漏洞結合在一起以後變成一個大的資安漏洞很多資安方面的事情都是這樣子的就是他利用這個我現在請教部長嗎那之後會不會開罰這個是一個概念你就針對我的問題直接回答就好之後會不會開罰 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9924.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9933.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
我現在沒有辦法那個現在並沒有什麼那明確的就是說他哪個地方用哪一條法律我要怎麼開罰根據資通安全管理法第30條第一款衛生師資通安全維護計畫10萬以上500萬以下或第29條重大資安事件未通報房屋最高可罰處1000萬他有通報這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9945.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9948.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
那你們業務報告中還有提到要推動治安法規的調適修正了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9970.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9981.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
跟委員報告我們跟治安法裡面相關的執法的否歸條是我們都已經辦理完成了那接下來能不能在一個月內修正規範要求電信服務然後設計身份驗證呢嚴禁使用預設密碼 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9983.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9985.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
部長 最後還是說要注意你的說法 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
10006.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
10030.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
是就針對問題回答不要混為一談我沒有混為一談抱歉就是說委員我就是針對事實回答我向來都是這樣子你知道我並沒有說有什麼其他的指涉至於說媒體報導什麼那個不是我講的事情是我非常注意我的說法謝謝好謝謝邱若驊委員的發言也謝謝林部長我們接下來請許智傑委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
10042.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
10044.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
謝謝主席 我們請部長部長辛苦 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
10053.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
10072.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
我知道有一些媒體都會斷章取義所以以後我們在講話都要特別小心事實上我自己在回答媒體也是一樣有時候就剪短不要講太長不然他會截太耀的你的解釋他都不截所以這個稍微我們互相提醒一下謝謝委員提醒 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
10073.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
10089.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
是好謝謝部長那我們其實高雄這兩天正好抬杠直棒然後還有那個我們的恐龍展是那來的人數相當多是所以我們高雄其實應用AI應用的蠻好的包括整個人流的統計 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
10090.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
10116.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
整個交通的疏導啦包括我們演唱會經濟這些都有用到我們高雄的AI的部分所以高雄現在其實也有個智慧燈塔計畫那一直在推動我們高雄的主權AI那包括我們交通事件的監測淹水、災防、道路坑洞等等有很多我們高雄目前都在發展那我知道部長也很努力就是我們台灣主權AI |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
10117.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
10141.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
是就是說包括那個羽料規模已經用已經進了12億token了是所以這個也算是我們對於台灣主權也有一個相當努力的方向這個部分也先予以肯定是不要老是再查都查到簡體字繁體字都查不到所以這個也謝謝我們速發部的努力那當然就是說如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
10142.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
10166.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
就是我們現在在設定台灣主權AI的時候可以把我們的城市治理包括高雄的主權AI可以納入我們這個Token它慢慢的就是說我們由中央在做中央的工作但是把所有地方的工作也能整合進來是不是對於台灣在世界上的發聲會更有利那這個部分我們有做嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
10167.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
10190.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
跟委員報告就是說在智慧城市方面其實通常各個計畫都是由各個縣市政府地方政府它自己提的但是我們速發部在中央的話我們有兩件很重要的事情第一個是要設定資料交換的標準然後另外一個是資料儲存的架構資料儲存的架構就牽涉到以AI來講就是算力中心 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
10190.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
10213.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
我們希望說在這個AI算力中心裡面有足夠的算力而且這個算力都是提供好的那個API還有就是這些那個AI的算力它是不是那個有符合我們台灣主權AI的這種標準就是有台灣的價值觀然後是對環體中文有足夠的了解對台灣社會有足夠的了解所以加入城市的已經有動作了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
10213.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
10239.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
是 我們現在跟那個台南市政府跟還有高雄市政府還有跟台北市政府等等我們都有各種不同的合作事實上我應該是明天就是我就會再到那個台南市就談一些智慧政府的一些合作所以就是說你這個已經加進去台灣主權AI這12億Token裡面有包含這些城市的東西進去了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
10241.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
10263.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
這個可能要請文副市長說明一下是 委員好 針對地方政府的部分我們在今年初也已經開過三場的這個說明會那接下來現在地方政府正在盤點所以預計大概在第三季的時候就會有地方政府的資料可以上線 以上所以第三季 也就是今年的第三季才會一起進去我們台灣的主權AI裡面 好 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
10264.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
10284.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
這個希望能夠盡快啦然後跟各縣市聯合我想台灣的聲音就是尤其是黃文勳我講過一直誇獎我們是世界智慧暖身城市的典範嘛那這些東西應該都要進去所以也讓台灣讓高雄我們所做的 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
10284.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
10301.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
成績可以讓世界看到也可以讓我們每次查資料真的是查到我們繁體字屬於台灣 屬於高雄 屬於各城市的左線AI希望這個能夠盡快進去好 那我想整個AI未來的世界典範 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
10303.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
10328.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
我看韓國砸千億韓元推動AI校園計畫目的在十年之內培育一萬名人工智慧專家這個差不多台幣差不多三十億左右然後日本他們也大概有一千九百億日元差不多四千億左右的預算就是在我們培養AI基本人才 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
10329.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
10342.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
那我們速發部當然也有做 速發基金差不多一百億左右嘛是是是普發會也差不多一百億左右嘛是但是這個針對人才培育有沒有特定出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10343.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10362.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
OK 關於那個人才培育因為現在AI的人才到底是怎麼定義這個是一個關鍵因為之前我們就是有提出一些AI人才的那個培訓的那個計畫那我那些業界的朋友都跟我開玩笑講說如果會用ChatGPT就叫AI人才的話那三分鐘就可以訓練一個所以我們聽到這種 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10364.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10379.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
這種講法以後我們速發部就訂定了AI產業人才認定職業明確的就是訂出各種人才譬如說那個AI那個應用應用AI來改善生產力的人才這是最基礎的然後中層是說利用現有的工具去 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10380.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10405.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
去建立那個AI應用的人才這是中等的然後再來是AI基礎研究的人才那基礎研究的人才是那個國科會跟教育部的職責然後中間跟那個下面這個都是我們速發部的職責那我們就利用這個人才認定指引希望建立一個那個好的人才AI人才訓練的生態系就是說你訓練的人認證的人他在做這些事情的時候他還可以賺到錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10406.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10419.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
他一旦民間的這個產業賺到錢這個就像一個輪子一樣就會一直的滾動那我們希望用這種方法來大量來就是來訓練出台灣的人才我想提一個建議是 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10420.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10441.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
就是現在世界各國都在努力當中 也都在開始當中所以你要說等我們教育部 我們塑化部各司其職有時候其實可能這邊跟那邊互相不見得跟得上所以我覺得部會的整合非常的重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10442.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10465.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
像韓國它有一個AI戰略十年計畫那就是由一個國家AI戰略委員會那對AI創新學院整體有一個長遠的佈局那這個部分速發部跟教育部有沒有這樣子一個AI戰略指導委員會或者是AI戰略十年計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10466.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10490.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
就是說這個必須要兩個部會去合作思考是關於那個國家的整體的AI的戰略這個是在台灣是由國科會負責的那國科會那邊就是經常都會找我們就包含抒發部包含教育部包含那個衛福部等等我們都會一起來討論就是要如何進行我們AI的我舉個例子就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10491.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10511.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
國發會有100億的基金對不對是從去年3月到今年2月是一年的時間是它100億是打算10年嘛是從去年3月到今年2月已經一年了是總共合約訂了6個案子是投資了7556萬是 這個金額非常低還不到1億對這個速度事實上是相當慢是 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10518.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10538.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
所以我是覺得我們把錢擺在那裡結果使用率很低所以我在這邊有具體建立兩個方向一個方向就是說我今天是不是有可能吸收國外的新創的表現良好的公司進來比如說新加坡 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10540.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10554.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
他有吸收一個那個living optics那個AI相機是這個其實是台灣人創辦的是結果因為他表現得很好所以新加坡就去吸引他們來是吸引我們台灣人 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10556.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10585.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
創辦的公司到新加坡去設亞洲總部這個他現在在英國啦類似這樣子的案件就是說我們把很強的新創公司拉進來就跟我們現在世界各國都要拉我們的台積電去設廠一樣的道理那這個部分是不是在我們的國發基金或者是我們自己蘇發部的百億基金有沒有可能去做這件事 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10585.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10610.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
是 謝謝委員的提醒現在其實台灣有個特性就是台灣的人才常常是在台灣跟加州矽谷事實上是兩邊住的尤其AI這方面的人才我們現在非常希望說能吸引一些這種就是在台灣跟加州矽谷之間這樣經常來往的這些AI人才沒有具體的成果了比如說我AI的人才 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10611.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10637.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
或者是我AI的新創公司都屬於泰斗型的那我們把它吸收到台灣來現在有嗎有 事實上有一些公司譬如說那個TX1還有那個他們那個Joyce系列還有Vic1等等這個都是一些大公司下面成立的一個新創公司那這個都是一些台美人他們在經營的那我們現在在想辦法在吸引他們回台還在努力當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10639.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10667.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
對 因為他們研發總部通常都是在台灣因為台灣有很好的人才但是他上市往往會選擇在國外上市所以在認定上有時候人家就講說你在國外上市就不能算是台灣公司其實這些公司老闆是台灣人然後他裡面的研發人員大部分都是台灣的AI人才那我們現在非常努力在勸說這些公司至少他把他的研發總部留在台灣那如果他能選擇在台灣上市的話那當然會更好就是這是個方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10669.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10686.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
我現在看到的這兩百億它發揮的效果不高啦那我們要怎麼樣讓它發揮更大的效果然後有個整體的專業佈局讓台灣可以走到AI軟體的前頭啦硬體的前頭我們已經有台積電了嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10687.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10706.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
軟體的前途是不是有機會用這樣子投資的方式去吸收國外的新創公司優秀或突出的新創公司到台灣來這是第一第二就是人才的培育你如果先擁有10億或是先擁有20億你要先擁有因為我這裡不知道看說高進有沒有1億 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10708.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10730.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
這個當然我一起就是速發部一起來思考就是部會之間的溝通一起來思考那比如說高雄我希望說現在要那個高雄其實現在電也好啦台積電也好啦這些都是比較足夠嘛那有沒有可能設一個AI人才培育基地 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10731.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10751.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
就是說比如說好 高科大現在是全台灣最大的綜合性的科技大學他們裡面的各方面的互相的資源的科系也比較充沛那如果說有一個 因為每個大學都會做人才培育基地啦但是有一個頭來帶動那個效果會比較好 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10751.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10765.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
那我們是不是有可能就是說讓這一個案子比如說在高科大或者是中山大學等等的啦我只是舉個例子但是我是認為說有一個頭比如說高科大當作我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10767.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10782.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
AI人才培育基地這樣子一個概念那速發部或國發會就可以多投入一些資源你把它做成這一個AI的態度的學校那其他的各個學校就可以互相再做更多的交流至少有人在整合 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10783.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10811.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
這個可能性高嗎原本那個國科會就有這方面的想法就希望把一些那個頂尖的科技大學作為那個AI人才訓練的中心甚至於直接就開發產品去上市那這個我們會密切的跟國科會一起合作簡單的講就是說各個大學都會說我在培養AI人才這個都沒有問題但是你把資源或者是把注意力或者是要看到有具體的成果 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10811.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10834.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
在某一所或某幾所大學身上那你看到那個成果會比較具體所以我就具體建議就是說我們這200億啦包括國發會包括我們速發部那甚至速發部也主動主要是你的肉的最重嘛那能夠跟教育部那大家彼此做一個聯繫有一個AI的戰略的概念 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10835.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10852.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
所以在吸收國外人才吸收國外優良的新創公司這是其一其二就是我們國內的人才培育基地能夠focus在幾所大學比如說我們高雄至少一所嘛類似這樣子的概念是不是會比較能夠發揮效果 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10853.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10878.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
是 這個事情我們會跟國科會密切的討論跟合作因為這些預算的這方面的預算是國科會那邊在分配的那我們當然是希望朝這個方向發展謝謝委員的提醒這個就拜託部長整合一下相關的部會你們自己互相聯繫都沒問題嘛把它整合得更好剛剛這兩點我希望能夠看到成果沒問題 謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10881.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10884.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
好 謝謝許智傑委員 謝謝林部長接下來我們請何欣淳委員發言好 謝謝主席那我們是不是請部長好 我們請林部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10903.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10928.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
部長好我想我今天還是關心這個國際上我們台灣融入這個非紅供應鏈的問題我們台美直接有簽署細勝式宣言那台美經濟安全合作聯合聲明那深化台美高科技的供應鏈的信賴關係共同推動AI半導體以及無人機等產業的非紅供應鏈那我們跟法國也有 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10929.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10946.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
簽署一個產業創新的備忘錄跟英國日本我們也在簽訂數位貿易的一個協定希望能夠為企業跟消費者提供開放包容安全且公平的數位貿易環境所以呢賴總統有宣示我們要融入這個飛鴻供應鏈 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10949.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10965.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
我們引以為傲是什麼台灣為系島之心要走向全世界那不僅僅是半導體的一個硬體AI的硬體我們要走向世界包括AI軟體更要拚對不對好接著下一個我就要請教你 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10966.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10984.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
當我們長期在佈局走向AI人工智慧之島那我們有六大智慧的一個終端的關鍵技術這個當然都是以國家之力量在做佈局也剛剛我看到許志傑委員在問的當我們在佈局的同時我們如何向下扎根 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10985.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
11006.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
在這個科技產業跟AI產業技術的一個教育人才之培育等等其實都在我們的布局策略之一對不對所以我們要軟硬堅持嘛我們不是只有製造這個半導體這個硬體不是只有製造AI產業裡面的相關的一個零組件硬體我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
11008.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
11019.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
軟體系統才是真正的這個核心嘛對不對那真正的核心軟體就跟數位發展部的角色很重要來下一頁為什麼會這麼講當我們在發展人工智慧產業的時候AI是我們引以為傲也是下一個台灣的下一個台灣的這個產業重心向全世界都能夠宣示台灣在這方面佔有優勢也願意投資願意 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
11038.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
11057.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
來讓我們台灣整體的產業都能夠跟著升級轉型但是也因為這樣子面臨了很大的一個挑戰國安單位已經有示警這是一份國家情報工作暨國家安全局的業務報告裡面就曾經指出這個中國共產黨那邊中國那邊非常積極的拉攏國際上也好或是台灣也好AI產業的 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
11064.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
11090.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
相關的第一個人才的挖角科技的竊密還有收購管制貨品等等他為了就是什麼除了我們先進製程的晶片核心技術之外那他對於人的方面也是非常積極的在經營那再加上我們現在台灣的AI產業裡面所有產業升級在使用的軟體系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
11092.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
11113.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
部長 你有掌握過這些軟體系統 中國方面的技術第一個 先進嗎 第二個 影響台灣嗎第三個 台灣我們自己內部的各產業在運用 在使用的這些系統軟體哪些來自中國 你有掌握嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
11113.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
11141.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
是 因為我本身就來自於軟體產業那因為軟體產業的特性就是它開發成本非常高然後複製成本很低所以通常軟體產業都會盡量去尋找大的市場那因為中國的市場比台灣大很多所以在過去20年大概從公元2000年開始就是台灣的軟體公司通常都是在台灣跟中國大陸兩邊一起就是都是經營市場所以在這個公司裡面也會有很多的中國籍員工但是隨著這個在 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
11142.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
11159.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
COVID-19以後美中基本上已經脫鉤了然後因為中國他有一個叫做國家情報法然後國家情報法裡面第七條規定就是說那個中國的所有的公民還有組織都必須協助配合支持國家的情報工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
11160.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
11187.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
這一點就讓全世界其他的民主國家都非常緊張不單是我們台灣緊張其實美國、日本、歐盟那邊都非常緊張所以現在就是說在軟體產業上也逐漸的脫鉤我事實上最近才去參加在San Francisco的國際資安大會RSAC裡面大家都提到這個問題然後顯然的就是說大家都認為說這是很大的資安威脅所以我們現在也想辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
11188.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
11209.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
就是要去釐清就是讓台灣的這些這些產業軟體產業盡量把它就是機密的東西千萬不能讓中國的官方部長我當然知道你的這樣子的理念我們也認為在疫情過後美中的角力當中有一大部分的軟體系統產業也一定會做所謂的脫鉤 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
11211.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
11224.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
我們也期待這樣子的一個系統脫鉤但是我重點是後面的但是但是你到底掌握了多少就我所知台灣內部我們自己本身在產業在依賴這個系統軟體的一個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
11232.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
11246.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
到底有沒有第一個有沒有意識到這是中國來的系統軟體第一個第二個因為您講的因為中國的市場大所以過去台灣中國在不管是人才或是技術的研發或者是系統軟體的應用方面 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
11249.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
11260.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
到底在現在能不能完全脫鉤這個是我們必須自己對國內要有掌握不管是在我們的AI產業的供應鏈的每一個環節裡面的系統軟體我們到底能不能掌握有盤點第二個我們如何協助這些系統軟體產業鏈裡面的每一環每一節都能夠成為我們強調的所謂的非紅供應鏈 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
11275.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11294.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
這個包括我們現在在中小微型企業看到的當我們要輔導他們AI升級轉型的時候要他們應用數位科技的時候他們使用的軟體到底是不是紅色供應鏈一般中小微型企業沒有概念啊那他們依賴的是什麼系統軟體業者啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11296.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11321.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
那這些系統軟體業者就是我們數位發展部應該要有所掌握啊那甚至我們還要去主導宣示台灣要跟民主國家站在一起我們希望所有的系統產業都能夠支持非紅供應鏈這個是必須要非常有自律而且必須要有自覺那這個部分我們數位發展部有沒有掌握 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11323.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11345.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
這方面基本上有兩種做法一種做法是我做實際的資安檢測另外一種就是我排除紅色供應鏈現在美國的做法以前都還會去檢查是不是有資安漏洞現在美國就直接很多地方就講說不能有紅色的供應商我們台灣自己國內數位發展部有直接講嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11346.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11368.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
對那我們現在就是有那個危害國家資通安全產品的清單那這個事情就是那個我們是不是請那個我們的資安署署長來說明因為我們發覺說那個這個產品就是說資訊產品可以分成三個部分一個是具有計算能力的硬體第二個是不具計算能力的硬體第三個是軟體那軟體有很多的模組所組成的 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11368.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11388.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
然後我們會要求以後會要求就是說你在就是廠商都必須申報那如果由政府來進行採購的話你必須你這個申報必須誠實申報然後就看裡面如果有紅色供應鏈的那個軟體或者是那個具計算能力的硬體的話那我們依照我們的那個規定就是不能採購所以我才說當 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11391.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11410.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
當我們現在鄭麗君副院長前幾天也說過他今年也說過當我們宣示無人載具是2027的飛鴻供應鏈的目標我們要達到目標那我也期待AI產業的供應鏈也要訂出明確的目標為什麼即使是無人載具它上面也有 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11411.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11437.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
AI的系統所以對啊我們對這個國家大家對你的期待是什麼網路不能斷系統不能讓駭客入侵資料不能丟失剛剛你也提到大數據算力這些到底他的安全性在應用階段我們又如何能夠守住能夠讓我們自己國內的產業在應用的時候也能夠有自發性的 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11438.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11443.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
這個拒絕這個紅色供應鏈這個部分就是我們數位發展部的責任不是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11443.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11468.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
是老師我們一直在做這件事情那我們現在第一個就規範的就是政府的採購我們先從政府的採購做起那這個是不是請我們資安署署長說明一下對資安很重要謝謝委員這邊的這個提示那的確是剛剛部長所提到的我們政府機關的這個採購部分包含我們不能使用大陸相關的這些AI的產品包括像DISC我們居然就禁止使用DISC等等相關的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11469.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11470.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
那你們如何稽查 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11488.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11514.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
因為你只有規範我知道規範了之後呢那各級單位在應用公務單位在應用的時候他又如何能夠知道這第一個喔而且呢第二個在你剛剛講的AI的應用有很多的模組化那很多的模組化到底這個他基於這個大數據的一個運算那這運算的資料跟大數據的規範跟管制還有呢怎麼資安如何能夠的保存這些資料這些數據我想這個我 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11517.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11540.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
期待是不是給我一個書面資料然後甚至給我完整的我們到底有沒有規範而這個規範之下我們對於各級行政單位或者是各單位在應用的時候到底我們有沒有防範之能力要有防範之能力有稽查之能力跟能量才有用啊是的 我們有稽核的相關的制度那我們再把相關資料再提供給委員好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11543.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11561.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
好謝謝何定存委員也謝謝部長我們接下來請徐富奎委員發言謝謝主席有請我們林部長好我們請林部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11567.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11588.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
院長來部長早部長是我想今天還是有幾個這個問題要請教部長也要請部長幫忙是部長我想上一次我在委員會有特別提到這個我們的這個海嵐防護的一個工作是那根據國安會最近的一個書面報告統計今年第一季中共對我們政府的這個網路的侵擾高達 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11592.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11614.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
1.7億次是非常的恐怖是等於平均一天就有超過190萬次部長你們有掌握這個狀況嗎有當然有是那我想另外一個我們比較擔心的問題這個中共這個無所不用其極這個用甲魚船徵軍艦的方式就是我們所謂的影子艦隊的方式是藉由這樣的一個軍事訓練 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11615.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11635.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
甚至是有可能是針對我們這個整個國際通訊的部分海嵐的部分做一個蓄意破壞的一個部分那我想這部分我上次也特別請部長我們不管是跟海巡署也好跟我們港港局也好我們應該保持這樣的一個互動互助的一個模式那這部分我們有目前的進度有掌握嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11636.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11664.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
我們現在事實上我們那個任信司最近才出了一個報告就是講說我們這個關於海嵐的那個過去一年來那個發生那個斷纜的原因等提出報告那我們事實上我們任信司現在也訂出了一個那個指引就是告訴大家就是講說我們怎樣做分類然後發生這種海嵐斷裂的那個事情的時候我們怎樣追究責等等這個我們這個有一個報告事實上才剛發布那我們這個都有掌握到所有的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11665.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11685.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
我想就是說我們應該要防患未然就針對這個不管是這個中共的船隻也好或者是一些掛外籍的這個群組也好我想我們應該都要掌握他們的位置甚至有些在那邊我們的這個訪山到航村海域部分這是我們最密集的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11687 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11712.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
那過去也常常有他們就有在這邊出沒的一個跡象是那有時候故意在那邊用什麼船隻故障的名義或是在做什麼等待要入高雄港的名義我想這部分我們確實必須要擔憂啦是那除了這之外我上次也特別有提到你有談到針對這樣的一個入海空的一個多元通信的建置部分那我想屏東是我們這個很重要的一個基地 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11713.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11730.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
那我們未來針對這樣的一個實體的監控跟數位的一個預警我想跟國安單位跟海巡單位整合的部分是不是應該已經有做了一個合作的一個機制有因為那個關於那個衛星通訊這個事實上是牽涉到國安跟那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11732.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11755.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
就國防那當然是說有些事情是比較機敏性但是我們速發部這邊有很大的職責就是想辦法找到商業的解決方案像我們之前用的那個OneWeb像SES還有現在有一些那個同步衛星還有我們在持續在找比如說Amazon這個洽談就是我們有好幾個配套的一個部分我們希望有更多的選擇更好 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11756.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11774.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
好 部長那因為我知道現在目前當然剛剛有特別提到總預算的問題到目前為止你們今天總預算還沒有通過所以其實對你們來講真的是很多業務執行商遇到很多的困難那加上我知道你們的人力的部分限運跟編制還是有一定的落差 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11775.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11793.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
那這個1.7億次的供給當然我想對中央政府來講我們比較有強大的一個治安系統跟人力的一個系統可以去維護但是我比較擔心我們包含目前我們許多的地方政府我們那麼多的鄉鎮市公所甚至很多的我們基層的這些國營單位在 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11795.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11813.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
我們比較所謂的非六度的一個系統裡面他們的設備他們的人力比你們更不足是要為了怎麼樣因應這樣的一個治安的恐攻是有沒有什麼防範的一個措施那我們這邊抒發部有幾項作為第一個當然是我們修那個最近修了那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11814.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11841.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
自通安全管理辦法那我們想辦法就是加強我們的監督的責任的那個力道那另外一方面我也在跟那個我們治安署還有治安院講就是說我們不能單單以那個監督的角度去做這些事情我們要想辦法主動去協助各級政府包含地方政府包含縣市包含鄉鎮那因為那個很多政府他本身並沒有這麼多的資源那這方面是不是請我們治安署署長補充說明一下謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11843.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11868.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
謝謝瑋瑜的關心那的確是地方政府的資安的確是我們最關心的一個部分因為的確是資源跟人力比較不足所以我們在去年底特別從我們的預算裡面我們自己本身有挪出一筆大概兩千多萬的經費然後我們也調查各地方政府他們所需要他們所欠缺的一些自動安全的設備是哪些那我們也做了一些相關提供給他們採購然後提供給他們來先做使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11868.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11877.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
所以這個部分也補責一些比較欠缺在資安設施跟設備的部分的這些政府機關他們目前所缺的這樣的一些設備以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11878.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11899.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
我想這個部長跟署長還是要請你們多費心啊因為我知道尤其是我們很多基層的單位不要說設備啦這個你即使有設備也找不到人啦尤其我們的性質結構你一個月3萬多塊4萬塊誰都找專業的人士連你們在台北都找不到了所以我想怎麼樣去處理盤點喔真的還是要花一點時間來處理啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11901.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11923.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
是那個委員說的一點都沒錯所以我們為了解決這個問題我們現在想辦法就是提供一些那個大家可以各個縣市政府或者是地方那個鄉鎮政府可以用的一些軟體就是用那個產品化的那個譬如說資安方面的軟體讓大家可以直接採購就不用去找人了還有很多的工作可以雲端化雲端化等於說這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11925.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11935.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
雲端的這個治安當然就是由那些雲端的公司去處理那各個鄉鎮政府或者縣市政府就不用另外去請人來管這個他自己的伺服器了 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11935.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11963.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
不然這個我還是要建議因為即使你們把錢把預算撥到地方去但是你們有沒有去檢視第一個他們有沒有建構第二個建構之後他們在使用上面有沒有照我們的這個SOP去執行不然一開始沒那個效果我覺得你們還是要去做定期每一季或是半年要去檢測他們到底有沒有去落實這樣的一個制度這個資安集合還是請我們那個資安署署長說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11965.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11988.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
謝謝委員的關心的確是我們治安法修法之後我們可以到地方去做集合那我們除了集合之外我們會是仿視各地方政府他們所對這種相關治安的資源的需求然後是他們所碰到的一些相關的問題我想委員剛所提示的這些我想我們都會對因為我想這個這個恐攻不會只有從中央無孔不入我們要從每個環節都要去注意一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11991.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
12009.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
我想針對這個AI的詐騙的一個問題我舉一個例子芬蘭從2014年對於俄羅斯的一個威脅資訊戰他們就把一個多元素養納入一個課綱那我想尤其像我們最近屏東很恐怖的甚至連我們這個小農的產地滯銷 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
12011.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
12028.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
都被詐騙 賣白臘的 賣這些農產品的都被詐騙 是 我想真的是很恐怖那根據我們這個行政院打炸中心的一個統計光是今年3月份發生在FB跟TRADE這個網路網購詐騙的案件將近4500件 佔了群體這個網購詐騙量的將近87% |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
12036.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
12059.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
那這樣的一個AI生成的這個假貼文要怎麼去面對我想部長剛剛有說了很多但是我擔心我們的城鄉落差尤其我們屏東縣33個鄉鎮我們有8個原鄉又一個小離島我們偏鄉的這個資訊數位落差非常的嚴重怎麼樣強化這個偏鄉的這個AI的資訊教育的部分這我上次也跟部長提過了老人家 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
12059.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
12077.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
他會買東西小朋友會買遊戲點數都是最容易被詐騙的一個項目怎麼樣防範謝謝委員的提醒那的確這個是我們之前比較著力比較少的地方那我們會朝這個方向發展那盡量就是說我們提供一些工具給那個各個 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
12079.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
12102.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
那個鄉鎮的那個層級那我們要多做一些宣導那我們現在素產署也經常會辦一些活動有一些補助就在區域在地方做一些那個AI視乍的宣導希望讓那個民眾知道說這個AI的詐騙到底長什麼樣子我身上特別跟部長提到比如說我們的關懷據點我們很多老人家長輩在那邊所以我們應該結合衛福部我們的縣政府的社會處 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
12104.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
12129.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
那警政署也可以透過我們的派出所去做一些防詐宣導那學校端可以透過教育部來結合做一些的宣導我想應該面面俱到去做這樣一個防範教育的部分部長這個部分能夠做到嗎可以 這個我們會朝這個方向努力謝謝委員的提醒那幫你們做法在書面資訊再給我一下好不好 好 謝謝OK 謝謝 謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
12130.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
12147.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
好謝謝我們許富奎委員發言謝謝部長接下來我們請陳雪生委員發言好謝謝主席是不是請部長好我們請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
12153.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
12173.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
陳委員好林部長經過最近這幾個會期的切磋我想蘇發部也體認到立法院對蘇發部的監督非常嚴格那麼打砸來各方面都有具體的成效我也恭喜當然我們準備要審預算了這個對你們的預算很有幫助我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
12180.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
12195.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
學生在交通委員會也願意幫速發部在審議的時候我也願意幫你們多講幾句話啦非常感謝當然各位同仁要努力是我們會努力最近我跟另外公務跟馬祖地檢署 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
12196.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
12223.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
一個主任檢察官有通電話有時候他有時候也會來請安他那個請安裡面什麼早安什麼的他不要貪小便宜或是幹什麼都會有警示語在裡面我覺得這很好每個公務員如果都有這樣的一個觀念像蘇巴部或是我們立法院同仁或是誰草木皆兵即使說 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
12224.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
12249.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
你領到什麼獎金通知你然後戶頭請你告訴我把資訊告訴我我都會被上當喔我看你這也是詐騙喔我自己都嚇一跳耶你知道嗎然後會心生警惕這很重要好我現在跟你講到正題最近剛才許副委員也提到說海嵐斷了現在是國安的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
12251.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
12269.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
現在麻煩國安到底是國安還是不小心碰到還是幹什麼我剛才講的就是跟馬祖這個地檢署有過這樣的聯絡因為上一次前幾個月有碰到一個大陸漁船跟我們海南也弄斷了 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
12270.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
12281.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
弄壞了不是弄斷了後來我也協調中華電信也出面搞了好久後來這個人現在已經送回去了剛才我在隔壁那邊我還向劉部長質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
12285.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
12313.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
這一個人回去以後他又把台灣的四十幾個人球全部丟到馬祖去也想用借用類似的方式引渡到大陸去那這是你公部門的事啊我們私底下協調這個是一次福建這邊在處理的他有分福建跟北京北京也來關鍵說你福建怎麼沒有經過我北京的同意怎麼可以這樣處理啊這又是一個問題出來了那我今天問的是3月21號又來了一個案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
12315.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
12337.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
每年漁船63896,他這個船漏水進水了後來修補棄船棄船以後這個船在海上再浮再沉的,漂到哪裡?漂到東引的北澳漂到東引北澳那個船不能在那邊就這樣子啊那我們要他們漁船說你們趕快找人來救援啊他找了大陸的 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12340.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12362.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
海鴻宮66號平台船救援平台船是很大的問題又來了這台平台船跑來救援把船體要移動這個平台船又碰到我們的海嵐很像是3號還是2號部長有沒有接到通報應該是3號吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12367.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12388.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
三號海嵐你了解狀況嗎?能夠回報一下看看目前什麼狀況?報委員確實如您所跟我們才指基本上台馬三號海嵐在3月30日在3月30日深夜的時候發生這個故障當時的狀況是因為有一個中國籍的 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12389.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12414.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
海鴻公66號平台在那邊施工但是呢因為發生海產故障但是目前為止所有的訊息都只是懷疑是他施工而已並沒有確切的證據那後續海運署也發了一個通告因為這是一個計劃性的施工是由台灣的航政單位跟相關單位開會協調完以後一個施工的情形並不是一個突然來做破壞的一個狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12415.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12442.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
那現在海運署已經請中華電信會派潛水員員到海底的那個位置看海岸破壞情形到底是發生什麼狀況他前面已經下去了是是所以那後續的報告我們只能夠等到後續的報告才出來那現在海運署根據他們的新聞稿已經移送給相關的馬祖的連鄉縣的地檢署在做調查而已調查以上報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12444.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12473.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
地檢署也沒說要幹什麼啊地檢署我也沒給他移送啊也沒幹什麼啊沒有沒有那除非你中華電力來告人家如果中華電力告人家的話那中華電力如果告人家這裡面牽扯到國安的話哇 那開會我去看那個開會參加的單位八九個勒七八個十個勒那麼多單位然後大陸又在關鍵這個事情大陸現在跟我們官方沒有來往 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12474.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12485.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
昨天晚上大陸打電話給我說北京也非常關切這個事情你曉得馬祖跟對面的地緣關係是非常的敏感我們不希望因為你台灣有台灣海峽 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12487.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12506.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
我們馬祖近在咫尺,我們兩邊的關係都保持得良好我們也不希望有任何不好的事情發生所以他想說,能不能弄一個民間的團體,到這邊來有關漁船的糾紛能夠協助處理尤其是這個海嵐,現在動不動就扯到國安了 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12507.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12534.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
是不是 那很多委員都擔心海南一段了是不是對面在搞一些軍方的事情啊等等都有疑慮嘛 是不是所以現在他們也擔心因為這個海鴻宮是個工作平台船很貴耶 那一天不知道美金多少錢你現在給它綁在那邊我看了他們的報告復工計畫要到4月8號才提復工計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12537.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12555.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
他們也建議說船最好不要動那你平台船不動的話海嵐在平台船底下你動的話他就一拉扯一拉扯你本來斷了十三根萬一再斷了一百多根那這個帳怎麼算那你要賠這個一賠就幾百萬幾千萬的 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12561.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12586.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
這個你要把人家公司搞垮我為了去救這個漁船你把人家公司搞垮所以對方也是很老公那邊也是很擔心這個事情那我們這裡呢地檢署說我沒管你啊是你海巡啊然後你把那個船長又把他放在南竿這個船是在北竿船員又在船上那如果浪大的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12588.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12617.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
這個平台船在上面沒有船長的狀況你看沒有船長飛機如果沒有駕駛員的話飛機在空中會發生什麼事這個亂飆亂撞的話那又是個定時炸彈那萬一出了狀況誰負責啊那地檢署說你們也沒向我告狀啊我不告不理啊對不對那你海巡什麼態度呢海巡要看你們什麼速發部啦什麼中華貼信啊這單位可多了 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12618.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12626.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
那你們再不表示意見好了我看這個問題很大市長你有沒有辦法解決這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12628.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12655.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
因為當時的計畫施工是行政單位的一個計畫又多了一個海港局所以海港局應該跟海巡署會去做這方面的討論那至於速發部的部分的話我們就會根據中華電信的實際的海底勘查的狀況來做後續的應酬不是啊海港局說海南關我海港局什麼事嗎我海港局只管港口還有海水海裡面的魚我也管不到是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12657.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12681.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
這海嵐又不是我航港局管的我了解委員的意思我們抒發部會盡快的去協調這個事情一方面趕快修復一方面趕快把這個事情處理你這回答就有guess對不對你主任單位嘛你不要像高雄昨天出那個叫什麼什麼事件那個吃那個什麼東西高雄啊潤餅潤餅潤餅潤餅說要 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12688.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12701.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
檢調單位去查我說你衛生單位在睡覺啊你主政單位是衛生局嘛這個也要調查局喔也要檢察官檢查系統來喔這沒道理嘛你是主政單位嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12701.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12723.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
怎麼叫海港去查咧?怎麼叫什麼什麼海巡去查咧?好不好部長我想...這個關於海嵐的管理事實上真的是分工相當複雜但是我們速發部...如果沒這回事你不要去搞人家嘛你把人家弄成那個船在那邊幹什麼咧?反正你是老共的船嘛我也不管你給他搞個30天50天搞個3個月5個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12726.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12751.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
好不好不要留下不好的印象嘛是好沒問題部長弄完牛市長那邊給我回報一下好不好是我想部長很忙啦我不好意思勞動他市長這邊起碼去了解一下狀況整合一下整合一下好不好是你不要推給海巡也不要推給什麼航港局他們這些單位不會有太多意見啦問題是中華電信啦你給我弄清楚好不好是好謝謝謝謝主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12754.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12773.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
好謝謝陳元生委員也謝謝我們部長好下一位請黃建豪召委好謝謝主席主席一樣我們請林部長請部長謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12779.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12805.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
教委你好部長好 辛苦了 中午了繼續質詢是部長一開始來討論一下其實大家注意到其實剛剛談到這個數位任性的部分其實最近有個新聞 前陣子有個新聞就是說這個兩岸有這個詐騙集團透過這個這個星鏈來做現行相關詐騙的工作那當然詐騙的部分這不是我們今天要討論的主題我要討論的主題是什麼討論星鏈這件事情是 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12806.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12825.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
星鏈它在我們的就是這個Stalin它一樣在台灣的這個上空中這樣子有這樣相關的訊號能夠使用這樣子的訊號但是它沒有辦法落地嘛到目前為止沒有辦法落地所以我們就眼睜睜看著說這個樣子的一個客觀事實存在但是我們的法律或是我們的政府或是我們相關的這個技術面上沒有辦法直接的去 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12826.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12840.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
處理這件事情那我們看其他國家就是說其他國家 包含說日本還有韓國他們過去當然有些限制 當然說這個日本之前也是限制說有相關的法令不能直接來落地但日本之前也透過了這個他們的相關的集團 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12842.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12864.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
來授權Starlink能夠在日本做服務那韓國也是成立一個Starlink Korea LLC的公司的方式也讓Starlink在韓國也落地了那麼現在問題是說那台灣在這個部分因為包含部長剛剛一拆很多委員諮詢提到說海底電台會斷訊的問題那通訊任性會受到影響的問題那在這部分上面我們除了去 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12866.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12893.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
這種電纜的補救之外我們到底對於這種全球性這種星 像STARLINK這樣子這種衛星 第一個衛星這種訊號的這個的立場是什麼現在的狀況是 那個對我們速發部或者對整個政府來講我們當然是希望台灣能有越多的這個衛星通訊的那個選擇當然是越好那之前據我了解是因為那個STARLINK他堅持說他在台灣他希望是百分之百由他自己去 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12895.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12911.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
經營就設立那個分公司來或者子公司100%來經營這個衛星的服務但是依照台灣的電信管理法第36條就是規定必須那個外資不能超過50%那因為這個事情就卡住了 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12911.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12926.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
後來就沒有談得很好那最近我們事實上是有主動的去問那個STARLINK就是說他們有沒有興趣來台灣結果他們給我們的回覆是說因為台灣現在4G跟5G的那個普及率太高了人口覆蓋率已經超過99%了所以他認為說台灣的市場很小 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12929.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12948.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
所以他認為說這個台灣對他們來講是low priority的市場所以他們不是很積極但是即使在這個狀況下我們還是我們資源司這邊還是會持續跟他們就是溝通一下看他們就是說有沒有哪些地方我們雙方可以共同討論共同合作的地方我想這樣部長當然 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12949.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12975.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
商業公司要不要來落地 要不要來開發 台灣這個市場是商業公司自己的佈局的問題但問題是說現在台灣就像部長提到 前面有法規問題就是我們在電信管理法部分 有相關這樣的限制所以導致前面談得不是很順利 當然現在包含本席在內還有一些委員提案說可能在股權上放寬 或是用專案認定 或是用其他的方式包含說可能涉及到國家安全 或是涉及到通訊認訊的問題用專案核可方式去做這樣子的變通 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12976.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12998.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
到這樣子的立場上 術衛部有沒有辦法去支持這樣的做法那這方面我覺得委員說得非常對我們當然是希望說有更多的選擇但是我們也希望說對方要有意願要不然我們這邊主動修法 人家又不來到時候就覺得好像是我們去來部長我跟你說 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
13001.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
13013.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
其實我們一開始我給你舉日本跟韓國的歷史是這樣就是說其實日本跟韓國他們當然他們的市區戶他們整個訊號的普及率也會比我們差多少也是科技很進步的國家但他們也是 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
13014.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
13040.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
這樣落地將開放了是那今天我們現在有台灣外本然後剛剛部長也提到說你會跟Amazon去談相關的合作是就我們還是希望說有更多的選擇嘛所以今天在站在有更多的選擇現象我們先不管這些商業公司他要不要進來是應該是說在法令上我們要有這個空間是未來有需要假設或者他們評估會覺得台灣還是有潛在的空間潛在的市場他們能夠來嘛那現在是因為法規上的限制是導致他就算想來 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
13041.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
13068.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
或許他現在可能他可能此刻不願意來但我不知道可能下一季或明年有什麼狀況他們願意來等等的這種情況發生的時候或者是真的萬一發生兩岸一些發生一些衝突狀況或是說我們的電纜被切斷了我們對外通訊被影響的時候是不是就有這個需求所以這部分我覺得是要大家你在世衛部我們應該要未雨綢繆去面對這件事情啦所以在法規上是不是應該去支持開放我現在問說你們會不會支持法規上要做一定程度的開放 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
13069.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
13094.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
如果他們有意願要來的話那我們這些都可以討論因為這個算再怎麼樣這也算是一個國際上的談判那因為牽涉到我們的那個國家當然我們還是可以顧那個國家主權當初電信法36條為什麼那樣設置我想一定有它背後的原因那背後的原因是不是已經消失了還是說繼續存在但是我們可以做調整這個都是可以討論的所以我們很希望就是說第一步我們先跟那個STARLINK那邊就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
13096.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
13121.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
能明確的知道他們希望怎麼做再來我們在雙方再來坐下來談他們希望我們做什麼那我們希望他做什麼這個都是可以談的因為這種事情我們並不是說有什麼原因我們不喜歡他們或討厭他們不是這樣子我們就是在為了國家利益最重要的就是我們國家的利益我們必須去找到一個最好的方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
13121.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
13145.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
好 部長謝謝 因為像這個相關數據你們都知道 包含Starlink Mobile他們在這樣全球這麼多國家有覆蓋有時候真的發生緊急狀況的時候 很多地方他能夠對外通訊甚至剛剛一凱提到 連詐騙集團被斷訊的時候 他還是透過性戀去做詐騙當然後續他們有去做相關處置啦 我說代表說這個技術在各地已經開始應用了 所以我們希望台灣不要再落後在這個部分 好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
13146.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
13166.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
接下來提到一個大家非常關心詐騙的問題今天一樣不是跟你談細節我們要談一些管理的部分責任歸屬的部分這個數位部的網路詐騙通報系統當然你們能者多勞感謝你們去做這樣的工作去做這樣的通報讓大家能夠來通報讓大家提早的警示但是如果我們從幾個數據上來看起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
13170.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
13181.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
在過去30天裡面是上代處理或重要性低的這個的這個比例大概佔17%那目前資訊上部署判斷的比例13%左右換句話說 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
13182.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
13208.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
除了確認是詐騙跟確認非詐騙以外的訊息大概有30%的比例他是不知道什麼狀況或是根本還沒處理的那這部分到底是誰的問題是數位部的問題是發布的問題還是是各機關就目前顯示這個部分是各權責機關沒有去回應你們還是說你們在初步篩選的速度不夠還是平台業者去拒絕去做相關的這個回覆到底是什麼原因導致 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
13209.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
13236.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
我們還有衛生店還有百分之三十的這個這樣子的通報通報網上有但通報資訊我們不知道它是什麼狀況是什麼原因造成的事實上那個委員講的兩個原因都有第一個就是說有些訊息我們的確是選擇不處理因為這個詐騙集團它用那個科技的方式用那個自動AI的方式它一直產生詐騙訊息如果每個訊息都去做人工判斷的話那會浪費我們大量的人力我們就是被它搞得那個皮皮繃繃 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
13238.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
13252.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
所以我們對於那種就是它發布出來我們那個AI巡檢到但是根本沒有人閱讀到根本其他人也沒看到我們就擺在後面就先不處理那另外我們就是把這個分案分到各個部會的話他們也是用同樣的方式就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
13253.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
13270.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
基本上我們分給他都已經是那個覺得說比較危險的他們要希望他們去處理但是有時候他們限於人力那現在那個像是內政部因為他們有警察系統他們是那個週末都有人在處理但是有些部會因為他週末沒有在上班所以他有時候處理會比較慢一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
13271.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
13295.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
因為之前你們回覆審計部的時候是透過跨部會會議去檢討各部會執行情形是 這個我們沒有做對 那你們在檢討但問題說我現在講說在你們這個行政分工裡面到底這個責任是訴發部要擔起來譬如說現在顯示數據30%未知或重要性低這個責任是你們承擔還是各部會有一個管考機制是誰來處理這個事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
13296.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
13322.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
是我們現在那個行政院打詐那個辦公室這邊有一個打詐指揮中心這邊就是定期的會檢討就是各個部會他處理這些那個詐騙訊息的判斷的那個速度那一個很重要的原因就是說因為很難判斷的這些訊息那公務員擔心說我萬一做了判斷有什麼責任那這個地方我們也希望說建立一個共識就是說該處理的盡快處理然後那個也減輕這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
13323.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
13349.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
一方面來打擊詐騙一方面減輕這些公務人員的壓力有實質上的壓力還有心理上的壓力這個我們都會想辦法去處理時間到了那最後一個問題就是我還是要有一個數據啦就是說其實這是有量化的這是量化數據要求的你們有沒有期待說多久時間或是什麼樣的能夠把這個上代處理或是資訊上部署判斷的比例能夠降下來因為現在大概佔30%嘛是你總要往下降吧有沒有這樣的一個期程目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
13353.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
13365.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
跟委員報告我們四月底會辦各部會的教育訓練讓他們更了解怎麼去判斷那個詐騙然後我們應該在六月底六月中之前應該可以把這個數字改善好 謝謝 部長謝謝謝謝委員謝謝黃昭偉 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
13381.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
13406.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
好接下來邀請李昆成委員發言李昆成李昆成不在現在請吳麗華委員吳麗華吳麗華我也不在現在請林柱英委員林柱英林柱英不在接下來請邱志偉委員邱志偉邱志偉委員不在現在請鄭振淺鄭振淺鄭振淺委員不在現在請葉元之葉元之葉元之委員不在 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
13407.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
13424.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
現在請蘇清泉 蘇清泉 蘇清泉委員不在現在請洪玉祥 洪玉祥 洪玉祥委員不在請鍾嘉斌 鍾嘉斌 鍾嘉斌 鍾嘉斌委員不在接下來請徐欣盈委員 徐欣盈 徐欣盈委員不在最後請游皓 游皓 游皓委員不在 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
13426.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
13443.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
那登例諮詢委員均與發言完畢 作以下決定報告諮詢完畢我們委員尤浩 洪祐祥委員所提的書面諮詢列入記錄並刊登公報委員在諮詢中要求提供相關書面資料或未及答覆的部分我們請書發部盡速以書面來答覆本次會議結束 散會 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
13492.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
13493.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
谢谢观看,下次见! |