| IVOD_ID |
17327 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17327 |
| 日期 |
2026-04-08 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-22-5 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
5 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
22 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
教育及文化委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2026-04-08T08:33:04+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-04-08T13:03:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
04:29:56 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/3832c314c43c373d676ba83bee9ba143aefd5d72e484d8ea7a9d5466ed3f8140a7ec44248d1099275ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-04-08T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國家科學及技術委員會主任委員吳誠文列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:33:04 - 13:03:00 |
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報告委員會 主席委員13人已足法定人數現在開會首先進行報告事項請議事人員宣讀上次會議事錄立法院第11屆第5會議交易及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議事錄時間中華民國1月5年4月1日上午9時1分至下午3時23分 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1711.621 |
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1732.817 |
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地點本案前嫌樓101會議室出席委員 羅志強委員等14人列席委員 劉書斌委員等15人列席人員 教育部部長鄭英耀 率同有關人員主席 武昭基委員立法報告事項一 宣讀上次會議意思錄決定 意思錄確定二 教育部部長鄭英耀列席報告AO概況並被質詢決定報告及詢答完畢討論事項 |
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1737.977 |
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1761.843 |
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審查委員武力法等17人拟據教師法第25條調研修正草案案等14案本次會議由委員羅志強等21人提出質詢軍經教育部部長鄭英耀及相關人員及其討伐說明另有委員盧憲一、萬美玲、徐烏奎提出書面質詢決議1.報告及詢問完畢2.委員所提書面質詢後相關資料列入記錄並刊登公報 |
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1762.623 |
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1770.357 |
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三,對委員質詢要求提供相關資料或為其答覆部分,請相關機關禁書以順便答覆。四,較司法第25條及53條。 |
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1772.83 |
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1796.478 |
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相關修正草案已全部審查完略並按拟據審查報告提醒院會公決不需交由黨團協商院會討論時由五召集委員立法補充說明審查結果如下第25條修正如下第18條第一項或第21條第二款第三款停聘執教師停聘期間不發給待遇 |
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1797.398 |
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1816.819 |
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依第21條第1款、第22條第1項、第23條第6項停聘之教師於停聘期間不發給待遇停聘室友消滅後未受解聘或停聘處分並回復聘贈者補發其停聘期間全數本薪、零工薪及學術研究加給第22條第2項停聘之教師 |
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1820.281 |
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1835.25 |
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1.停聘期間發給半數本新年工薪及學術研究家籍調查後未受解聘或終局停聘處分並回復聘任者補發其停聘期間未發之本新年工薪及學術研究家籍2. |
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1835.25 |
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1840.333 |
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第53條照台灣民眾黨黨團提案通過5. |
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1840.333 |
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1849.139 |
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在不影響條文文藝前提下文字條字標點符號為統一體力授權議事人員整理通過臨時提案一項宣讀完畢 |
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1852.108 |
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1877.906 |
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好在場委員未達議決人數三人議事錄稍後在座進行確定本次會議程式邀請國家科學及技術委員會主任委員吳承文練習我們報告業務概況並備質詢首先先介紹在場我們所有的與會官員我們 |
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1880.493 |
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1906.127 |
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國科會主委吳承文吳主委副主任委員陳秉宇我們主任秘書林廣宏科技辦公室執行秘書張正豪綜合規劃處處長彭麗春 |
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1910.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
1933.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
自然科學及永續研究發展處處長賴明志工程技術研究發展處處長洪樂文生命科學研究發展處處長楊台鴻人文及社會科學研究發展處處長黃俊儒 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
1937.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
1954.196 |
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科教發展及國際合作處處長林旺榮前瞻及應用科技處蔡妙慈處長產學及園區業務處林德昇處長秘書處黃玉清處長人事處林妍真處長 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
1965.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
1991.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
政風處方存安處長主計處廖玉燕處長資訊處周梓源處長法規會執行秘書張益隆我們新竹科學園區管理局胡世明局長中部科學園區管理局許茂興局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
1993.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2017.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
南部科學園區管理局鄭秀龍局長行政法人國家災害防救科技中心陳鴻宇主任國家太空中心吳宗信主任國家實驗研究院蔡鴻寅院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2020.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2040.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
國家同步輻射研究中心徐嘉鴻主任以及我們現場委員陳培瑜陳委員現在進行報告請國科會吳承文主委報告報告時間8分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2053.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2075.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
主席各位委員先進大家好感謝各位委員關心國家科技發展並支持國科會的科技政策很榮幸列席大院教育及文化委員會進行業務報告面對人工智慧加速人類社會變革國際政治角力與供應鏈重塑的挑戰凸顯科技創新對國力與產業的影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2079.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2107.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
振兴科技不仅能提升台湾竞争力并强化国家安全也能让全民共享便利优异的生活仅就当前施政重点说明如何首先扎根基础科研普惠全民国科会全力支持基础研究为引导科研成果连结社会贡献以调整研究计划审查机制推动学术成果多元评量 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2109.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2117.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
強調研究成果應重視原創性實質貢獻與社會影響其形塑正向健全的研發環境 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2121.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2142.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
同时致力全面科普扎根,扩大各项科普活动,例如科普环岛列车以新增停靠南回路段的访辽与大武站,圆满完成环岛的使命。象征科普列车十年的里程碑更加强促进援助民主与偏乡学子的参与。 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2144.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2173.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
也让普罗大众能感受到科学与生活的连结第二巩固算力拓展智慧国力今年1月初举办的2026行政院科技顾问会议以提出我国AI发展之政策建言政府也同时展开AI新十大建设其中国科会主责推动的主权AI全民智慧生活圈智慧机器人量子科技等领域 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2174.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2198.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
國科會已在114年11月攜手中研院經濟部共同舉辦2025台灣量子科技國際研討會會聚全球頂尖產官學員代表洽談供應鏈與技術合作深化與歐美日夥伴之策略結盟將台灣供應鏈實力牽入全球量子生態系 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2200.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2227.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
我们并在12月正式启用国网云端算力中心结合台湾最先进的晶片制造及细光子技术建构未来主权AI所需的先进算力紧接着我们发表晶片及先进封装研发平台整合资料中心相关供应体系导入以光通讯为核心的网路架构 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2228.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2251.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
替未來全光網路奠定基礎同時今年推動的智慧機器人產業推動方案跨部會推動技術佈局產業鏈建立法規制定及人才培育等四項策略將打造台灣成為智慧機器人產業發展與投資的完整生態系 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2252.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2264.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
後續,國科會將加速整合產官學院帶動資料中心及運算設備全面升級,逐步發展我國的AI產業邁向全民智慧生活圈。 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2266.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2293.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
第三 发展太空及声音支持韧性国家台湾首个自制卫星星系福卫八号奇波林卫星已在去年11月顺利升空入轨并完成取向下载课程持续验证卫星所搭载的自制元件福卫八号是由八颗卫星组成将依序源自逐年升空未来将可运用卫星影像发展多元应用 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2294.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2299.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
強化國家災防與韌性助力太空產業拓展國際商機 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2301.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2322.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
為完善台灣醫療韌性與跨部會攜手公司協力落實去年行政院生技產業策略之一委員會提出強化健康數據治理的願景催生台灣健康網路平台公司並在1月正式揭牌將整合全國醫學中心健康及醫療大數據建構 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2325.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2353.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
具标准化的数据的应用服务平台发展AI健康照护应用奠定全民健康的基础去年11月全球最大医材展Medica 2025在德国登场由国科会与经济部带领台湾医疗院所研究机构新创与民间企业展现台湾从生医研发到智慧诊断的多元能量 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2354.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2377.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
协助台湾智慧医疗拓展国际市场国会将持续整合部会资源运用科技推动在载医疗稳健迈向健康台湾的愿景第四,新创前导引领永续园区晋级国科会藉由与各国高层互访 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2378.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2393.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
会议论坛等多元方式就科技政策关键技术高阶人才等面向深度交流国际合作成果丰硕也带领新创伙伴共赴海外吸引投资紧跟全球脚步接轨国际 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2395.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2412.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
1月带领了57组新创团队携手83家供应链厂商共同参加CES以Daily Taiwan为掌管主题运用AI技术结合台湾坚实的硬体供应链发展未来的应用服务实现智慧生活 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2414.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2429.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
另外均衡科研生态技专与师大实务型研究专案计划有两大重点调整包括纳入私立大学为补助对象并侦测跨域实作类型展现跨域整合的精神 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2430.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2455.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
协助产业升级转型或扩散社会多元应用同时培育实务型专业人才国会不仅助力新创萌芽更持续配合均衡台湾的政策与产业发展需求推动科学园区的新设与扩建全面筹划让科学园区成为产业发展与自然保育共存共荣的典范 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2456.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2475.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
同時導入資源再生、循環思維、建構產業鏈結與合作共生機制,打造全方位平衡發展的下世代科學園區。最後,國科會將整合跨部會團隊,積極推動政府AI新十大建設。 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2476.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2489.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
五大信赖产业中相关科技计划携手场观学员打造智慧国家使台湾在全球科技体系中成为具任性可信赖的领寒者谢谢 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2498.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2511.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
好謝謝吳主委報告機關代表報告完畢相關書面資料請各位參閱並列入公報記錄現在進行詢答每位出席委員質詢六分鐘必要時延長兩分鐘列席委員質詢時間為四分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2515.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2540.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
委員如果有臨時提案請於上午10點30分前提出並於本會委員羅廷偉質詢結束後進行處理處理提案時若提案委員及連署委員均不在場我們照往例是不予處理首先我們發言登記截止時間是上午的10點半一併報告首先請登記第一位陳培宇委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2548.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2550.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
好謝謝主席那有請國科會吳主委謝謝有請主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2558.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2587.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
好 各位早安 身兼政委辛苦了今天幾個議題跟您討論跟請教第一個是我們最近有看到這個新聞中科大學學倫案那我們上個禮拜問了教育部因為它一案多頭同時還有中國的補助我們從來沒有反對跟中國做學術文化經濟各式各樣的交流但是因為它違反學倫那目前教育部的說法說國科會針對這個案子也已經在立案調查那第二個我也想要問一下去年有一個台師大的這個女足抽血案 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2587.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2609.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
那一样涉及学轮的问题那我知道国科会也已经展开调查目前这两个案子我认为都是国人会积极关心的案子所以呢如果由这两个案子往下看我想问一下主委目前关于学轮这个议题国科会有没有更加积极的态度在未来的事件或者是过去已经发生的事件正在调查中的案件国科会会不会有什么样的机制 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2610.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2637.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
國科院在去年處理台師大學倫案後來也已經有結論也跟社會大眾也公布了那國科院也很積極的在宣導學術倫理的重要性我們也制定了這個研究人員學術倫理守則也公布在國科院的網站上這個去年已經公開了那我在大學校長會議也特別在提醒我們各校的校長 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2637.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2655.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
那我们在这个今年刚刚举办过的所有的学门的学门召集人的会议我也在重新这个学术伦理的重要性至于我们国会的学术伦理委员会我们也特别在修改了我们的处置的办法 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2656.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2677.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
對於這個學術倫理我們加緊這個宣導之外呢我們在處罰的部分也加重了這個也都已經在學術倫理委員會也通過修改這個辦法所以剛剛委員提到了這個案子我們接到檢舉以後我們馬上就進行了這個程序已經發展到該校 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2679.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2698.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
那循程序我們正在處理當中未來進到調查完畢進到會裡面我們會召開學術委員會來處置我花這麼多時間讓主委說明我覺得是一種像社會大眾報告的方法沒有錯那但是我也看到我們下一張我看到主委這邊有說到另外一件事情就是說未來國科會審查計畫的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2699.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2726.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
将废除以量来取胜这件事情希望纳入专利产学合作绩效社会贡献跟影响力确实这是国人会关心的事情但是我也想要往下问我们在设想有没有一个可能刚刚我们所说这些学轮案你刚刚说的不管是因为调查成果已经跟国人报告或者是相关的惩罚机制都已经在委员会里面讨论但是我们在想说有没有机会在国科会的这个机制底下建立一个学轮案的查询平台 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2726.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2756.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
因为事实上不会只有一般人关心或相关的学术单位关心例如说很多政府单位也会发包所谓的研究案对吗那如果过去有些教授曾经涉及学轮案我们要不要有个平台公开查询让各个政府单位或是学术机构单位大家可以第一时间当然在符合各资法保护的情况下我觉得要把这些学轮案平台建立起来然后让相关单位可以查询有没有这个机会这个可能我们先做相关评估报告 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2758.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2772.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
謝謝委員這個建議事實上我們目前的機制如果是比較嚴重的案件停權三年以上我們都會公開都會公布的至於是不是要特別建立一個查詢的平台我們可以研議一下這不違反人權 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2777.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2804.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
是 不違反各自人權跟保障每一個人的這個學術研究權利的空間情況下我們可以如何去規劃我們來研議是不是可以採用這個方式兩個月內給我們相關報告好不好好 謝謝主委再來下一個比較困難因為你同時身兼政委所以我想這一題我有必要好好跟您討論我在總詢詢的時候也已經講過關於AI時代的主權台灣如何不要被邊緣化這件事情我相信主委我講到這裡應該知道我要講什麼來 第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2805.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2823.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
目前呢我知道我们的书发部跟国发会呢急着而且非常积极的先之前因为有泰德的模型我们发现模型非常需要大量的语料所以我们意识到台湾的内容产业所有的语料是非常重要的工具跟资源否则 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2823.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2845.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
台湾在未来云端的世界会被边缘化我想这个观点主委你一定是认同的来下一张那我们就试试看来玩一下现在坊间大家很常用像CHEPGPT我们就问他说从1990到2020台湾发生过哪些重要体育史拿过哪些奖杯哪些运动员参赛发生过什么样的事件结果AI不大知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2845.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2870.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
因為他沒有語料尤其是我們在國外這些大語言模型上個月呢參與委員他到部落去阿里山的鄒族部落頭目給他取了一個很美麗的名字象徵強壯跟勇敢可是他拿去問GBTGBT竟然跟他說這是山豬的意思那義語委員就說這是美麗的誤會因為AI語言大模型不認識我們台灣原住民語沒有這些語料背景資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2870.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2886.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
或者是我們再問他台灣的保肝藥品思思廣告我們從小看到大思思有保肝什麼什麼什麼之類的功能一樣問AI他什麼都不知道主委來下一張更可愛了我問他誰是吳承文他跟我說他是速發部部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2888.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2910.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
那我問他 他會打棒球嗎他說很抱歉 目前公開資料中吳承文並沒有以棒球選手或是長期參與棒球活動聞名的記錄但主委啊 我想現場很多人不知道對不對你們知道吳主委曾經是威廉波特的選手嗎知道的舉手你們年紀大都知道 大家都比AI還要厲害 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2912.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2935.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
這不是年紀的問題柯委員關心台灣運動史的人都知道曾經台灣過去還有一個非常重要的報紙在我們年紀小的時候都看過叫做民生報那民生報在落幕之後呢他們的語料資料其實是台灣運動史發展上非常重要我剛只是舉了一些不管是參與委員個人的事情或者廣告的這些資料或者是 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2936.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
2961.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
吳主委你的威廉波特這一段AI不知道我現在不是要講我們發生哪些問題所以我們辦公室非常積極我們做了幾件事情跟主委報告我們在去年的8月跟9月雖然我是黨團幹部但是因為我們來自內容產業我知道不是只有平面的內容需要被AI認識我們包含廣播的聲音的電影的報紙的還有過去的很多文史資料老照片台灣的故事這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
2962.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
2977.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
都需要被指導所以我們找了樹發部文化部經濟部製裁局還有來自很多內容產業的人我們甚至訪問了很多不同產業的人他們的產業知識其實也需要被指導所以我想要請教主委我們做了一些整理來往下 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
2979.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3004.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
我们汇整一下如果现在来看台湾的主权AI各自的分工我知道国科会过往有做Tide然后我知道国科会有做台湾主权AI训练的语料授权的条款当时是无偿授权只有花了少少的钱跟中央社买了一些资料后来呢速发部接力往下做汇集政府资料收集无偿资料开放AI语料库然后呢希望整理公共领域的资料就超过著作权50年的这很棒 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3005.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3025.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
好 我講了這麼多其實我們心裡都清楚我們至少需要1TB這只是至少1TB至少是百萬本的資料但是我們如何打包這些資料跟國外的大語言模型公司合作而國內的打包它需要有償的授權無償的授權它需要去整理資料它甚至要上標籤變成是機器可以判讀的資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3026.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3049.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
他不是有一個編輯處理完就可以全部打包上去而這麼龐雜的工作如果沒有國科會為主來領導各個部會同時跨到行政院等級我認為未來兩到三年台灣在雲端真的會被邊緣化所以我很開心看到了主委你之前有宣誓要成立戰略委員會在行政院等級那我們幫你找的法源依據我們來看一下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3050.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3070.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
科學技術基本法裡面有提到第五條跟第六條有提到如果國家相關的補助研究發展成果必須要轉換實際可以生產跟利用的內容再往下在上一個會期通過了AI基本法裡面也說到政府應該建立資料開放共享跟再利用機制好我講這麼多我相信主委你都知道我在擔心什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3070.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3091.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
那人工智慧戰略特別委員會來下一個人工智慧戰略特別委員會即將成立我不確定主委這邊有什麼規劃跟打算但是我就是就我一個在意台灣內容的人他不論是從產業從民間甚至我們知道文化部過去有做過所謂的台灣民間故事的這個數位網站 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3092.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3115.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
各式各樣的東西它有數位的沒有數位的有還活在放在圖書館裡面久久才會有人翻閱的那一種就像或是我剛剛舉例的民生報這些事情它只要沒有被數位化或是數位化後它沒有被標籤化其實AI都讀不到就如同主委你過去打棒球的故事也沒有人只有人知道但是AI機器人不知道那未來我們怎麼辦主委我想要請你說說看 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3117.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3140.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
非常感謝陳委員的建議其實我們已經啟動一個規劃現在是數化部在主政我們主權AI台灣自主語料庫的這個建制那剛剛委員提到這件事情我們的想法是希望能夠來協助我們的媒體把早期沒有數位化的這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3142.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3159.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
非常珍貴的這些算是史料啊媒體的這個資訊我們以國科院來編列這個科技算來來協助可以把這些數位化數位化完以後可以進到我們的語料庫那我們希望是擁有這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3160.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3184.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
助纣权的媒体他可以允许无偿的来授权我们来协助苏维化以后他们还是拥有拥有他的这个助纣权也可以自主的应用但是要捐给我们主权AI的这个资料库能够做这个我们主权AI的模型的这个训练那这个模型训练完以后我们可以公开来协助我们各行各业 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3185.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3193.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
各个领域的发展这个机制我们现在正在演绎当中希望能够循这个方向创造共赢 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3194.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3223 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
我覺得主委你講的方向有一個是對的但是有一個我先有一個問號一個它確實需要被數位化所以過去擁有這些內容的人要如何跟國家政府合作協助建立這個餘料庫這個我沒有問題但是是不是無償授權我先打一個問號例如說我隨便舉一個例子台灣的紡織業非常的厲害到現在台灣的紡織業產出更多新的知識但是在業界之間這些知識都不見得願意交換喔所以當你到餘料庫的時候你就要無償授權 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3223.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3242.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
委員我講的是媒體已經發布公開資訊其實沒有什麼隱瞞的嘛這應該是全民可以共享的那我舉一個例子但是他要訓練他的應用的模型優化的時候他的資料不必公開他們自己去做優化訓練這個是不會影響到生意的好 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3242.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3262.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
我要講的是因為他們現在很多人例如說以聯合報跟中國時報或者是以前的各大報他們現在都有數位資料庫在線上營運或者是連學術論文其實都要付費才可以下載所以我們一旦要這些擁有內容的人他願意釋出跟政府合作我認為需要大量的討論機制所以也期待 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3263.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3291.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
后续在国家员工智慧战略特别委员会这边我很好奇会有哪些产业共同来进到委员会然后在这个委员会里面会有哪些部会接下来会有哪些学者专家他绝对不能只有AI科技产业的人他一定还有跨部会跨产业甚至是更多跟民生有关的事情才有机会建立一个更好的讲台湾故事让台湾在云端不要被边缘的AI预料库这个部分要拜托主委跟述发部也好或是跨部会来帮忙因为你是政委 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3292.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3321.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
這個部分我會直接再跟國科會積極的討論可以嗎好謝謝主委謝謝主席好謝謝陳佩玉委員的質詢謝謝主委謝謝好由於議事錄之前已經宣讀完畢尚未確定現在先確定議事錄請問各位上次會議議事錄有錯誤跟遺漏好議事錄確定我們下一位質詢的委員是柯志恩柯委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3325.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3328.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
謝謝莊委 我們是不是請吳主委好 有請吳主委柯委好主委好 你自從上任之後呢其實對這個學界也是愛之深 責之切不過你現在很顯然是三罵學界那當然可以 我們來看一下第一個你認為花這麼多錢沒有諾貝爾得助很丟臉 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3352.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3379.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
第二个呢你说像目前的论文大家就是看他的数量案件记仇也蛮丢脸的第三个呢你认为学术界因为每个人在骂说政府投资资源太少那你认为政府做了很多所以这种说法很看不起我知道那个主委你很想投好球可是以这种说法来说真的就是像抱头一样那你自己也曾经在清大当副校长成大副校长也在南台科大担任校长 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3380.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3407.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
在当行政主管的时候你其实有权利来做这些的改变那你觉得那个时候你的学校有没有这些的规项有在我任内都有改变你在的时候都有改变所以说呢你到目前为止接任国科会的时候面对这些问题来说的话你又做了哪一些的改变跟成效你认为你讲的这些话里面对于学术界里面有一些的微词你有需要做一些修正吗 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3409.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3430.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
這個方向還是一樣那國科會已經做了很多的改變我們在所有的這個計畫的申請獎勵的評量等等我們是依照這個方向什麼樣的方向你是說標論目前還是說你是標去寫太多的論文的數量不考慮數量考慮質量我從來沒有講過不要寫太多論文 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3433.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3442.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
不是用論文的數量來平衡老師的成就所以不要扭曲我的意思我從來沒有說不要寫太多論文,從來沒有講我也沒有說你說不要寫太多論文你剛剛講了我剛剛講說,拜託,我剛剛講說是隱居你的說法很多在論文上論見濟愁,實在丟臉主委,我是引用你的說法 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3461.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3468.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
我也試圖讓你有澄清希望人家不要去扭曲你的意思鄧瓊季朝這個事情我是絕對反對的我當然也反對啊但是我只是在告訴我們不要正面這個我只是告訴你說目前學界對於你這樣的一個說法丟臉這個說法他們是有意見的我只是告訴你連我也丟臉不是只有他 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3480.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3501.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
所以你现在已经到了一个学界的程度里面我们就来看一下这个部分来说以基础科学来说完全同意你的这个部分来到我们一直强调基础研究是非常的重要基础研究跟应用研究跟技术发展来说的话基础研究其实在这个比例上面其实还是低于其他两个这个层面 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3502.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3519.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
那很多人我们基础研究我们台湾的学者的数量是在减少的是我们的经费年年在增加所以每个人平均得到的研发的经费都在增加当中那目前为止论文的数目不断在减少你觉得这个问题在哪里 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3520.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3536.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
是人口在减少啊还是我们对基础研究投入的这个学者专家会越来越少因为整个国家的政策对于所谓的技术还有对应用科学里面来说他们认为可以获得的比率比较高会不会是因为这个缘故 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3537.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3560.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
我們的學者平均得到的計劃補助的件數在提高得到的計劃每個計劃補助的金額都在提高當中但是我們的博士生在減少委員都知道我了解是啊所以我們未來在這基礎研究部分裡面有沒有辦法跟其他應用或在這個跟所謂的技術的層面裡面等量其關這是我們要的因為我們都認為基礎研究是一切研究的一個基礎 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3561.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3579.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
我們只是不想讓他這個論文書不斷在減少的過程當中讓投入基礎研究的人會越來越少這是本席質疑的重點我覺得主委我剛說是抱頭我現在是試圖讓你有一個可以澄清的一個機會不要扭曲我的想法同樣都是來自一個學界我不會認為你說論文是如何所以說你不要用這樣的態度來面對本席我覺得這不是討論事情的方式我還是強調 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3584.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3600.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
不能只用论文的数量我也同意啊因为太多学者专家太多亲近的人员因为论文数不够让他们在未来学术界当中受到非常大多很多没有办法这点我完全同意啊所以在我任职的学校 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3601.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3617.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
我盡量再修改辦法用比較公平的評量當然是啊我們也認為應該用多元的評量的方法嘛這次我們得到一個共識嘛我只認為說大家這種這件事情上面不需要再說什麼不斷在評量我是讓你有成見之間你反而誤解我的意思因為他們沒有改我才會講啊他們沒有改什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3617.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3633.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
改這個憑良的辦法那你現在當國會主委你再給大家做這個部分你改的部分裡面有沒有一直得到所謂成效上面的改進現在就是慢慢引導這個是需要時間的國科會已經改了因為國科會也是以前也曾經使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3634.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3658.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
是五年来之后你如果说是部分你要把过去五年你的paper的产量弄因为你可以加权多少以至于有很多的人在这个过程里面因为过去的学术量不够让他每次申请国科会的时候都受到非常大的阻碍这是事实嘛对不对过去是这样嘛这个评量全部也都是全国的学者一起在互评嘛是啊所以国科会已经把这个规则已经改了我们去年就改了 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3658.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3668.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
去年嘛 對不對嘛所以我們就來看看嘛你未來這個部分裡面有沒有因為這樣的一個改變讓更多的人來去看待嘛這是我們共同的期待嘛這點共識沒有問題嘛 對不對我們就花時間我們就看看會不會改變 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3673.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3696.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
所以说大家都知道你要投好球但是很多话讲的太直我觉得这就是个抱头我们来看一下这个第三园区这个有关于我们高雄的部分因为这属于南科的这个范围当中目前来说我们是不是有已经很确定我们的P6台积电的扩敞因为我们看到这个南科有一个扩敞的一个计划很显然很像是P6是要在南子区来建厂嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3697.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3725.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
P6台積電已經提出他的需求對現在高雄市政府也很努力我們都很希望能夠在這個地方但是還是要經過我們二階環評當然是而且最重要的是我們跟水跟電的問題因為那時候為了要友善環境也符合你剛說的永續所以我們希望能夠用到再生水的這個層面但是我們檢視一下目前來說整個再生水的這個層面來說平均大概10萬CMD嘛那我們也希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3725.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3745.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
高雄市政府也推动了桥头再生水厂的这个层面但是你这样怎么加加减减来说我说实在的这个水如果你在这个P6再进来的话真的是用水上会有很大的一个问题再生水来说的话所以我现在只是问说南科有没有考虑自己能够来盖这个再生水厂 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3745.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3758.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
包括委員高雄市政府在國會協助之下已經把楠梓的再生水廠也加進來了所以楠梓跟橋頭兩個所以這個水目前來說的話面對P6廠目前這個水量 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3761.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3791.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
你认为是没有问题没有问题超过它的需求然后也不会也不会影响到我们的民生用水因为量的那电的部分我们再来看一下因为你可以看得出来台电在过去的时候它有供电还有跟需求量这个部分里面他们之前有可是在修正完之后目前我没有看到规划用电的需求我没有看到规划因为水跟电是非常重要的所以我们强烈要求这一块也要盯紧因为这一块盯紧的话我们才有办法不然来的话没有电目前为止我没有看到这个电的规划 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3791.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3806.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
没问题我们对这个部分你一定要来做这样的一个处理水电的处理大家都希望但是这个水电就重点是不要因为这么用水用量大度的这个厂影响到民生所以这个要保证绝对是有最后一个我们来问一下有关AI |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3806.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3832.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
AI的导入我也刚刚也看到了那目前为止我们也经过国际的一个认证包括台湾2号3号跟创进1号目前为止我们在有关于这个建构的大共同的模型算力基础的建设上面这个部分是没有问题的那我想请问目前我们各单位特别是国防部有跟你们讨论要把这个AI应用到这个里面他们的计划当中吗 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3832.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3860.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
目前目前没有目前没有为什么我要问这个问题因为像现在目前在中东战争当中美国是大力的用他们的算力来去做而且他们建构了非常多的中心但是呢他也常常会变成因为是一个非常的精准的这个层面来说的话所以也让很多人把他当做是一个破坏的一个很大的一个基地因为怕他太过精准然后会会会对他们伊朗的本土造成很大的损害那我们高雄其实也有 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3861.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3872.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
因應這樣的一個需求也有所謂的AI算力的專區那我其實比較擔心在這個民用跟軍用的這個層面AI到底要怎麼樣它的倫理怎麼樣為什麼呢為什麼要提出這個部分因為美國來說的話有一個美國的AI公司叫Anthony Pick |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3877.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3903.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
因为他目前为止完全的不要让这个美国的国防部来跟他们做这样的一个合作所以川普非常的不高兴他甚至把他当作是一个国家安全构成供应链风险因为他们认为这个AI用在国防还是有它伦理的这个层面所以它会引起国防跟商业的伦理这个层面我们AI基本法已经通过了主委你有没有在这个层面上面去做一些的规范 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3903.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
3921.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
否则把AI放在未来的战争当中其实对人类来说是一个相当大的一个挑战有没有这样的一个规划我们AI基本法已经通过了对那在AI基本法里面我们没有讨论到这一块我们没有讨论这一块但是我们明确的讲我们政府的这个施政 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
3922.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
3951.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
一定要依照这个AI基本法的规范没有我个人认为说你这一块其实还应该再做一些界定因为在全世界当中都已经面临了军事应用跟商业伦理很多人认为说AI把它用在国防特别是在做一个攻击的层面上面是有伦理的问题这是未来可能会发生的所以我说即使是通过但是这方面的拟定跟这方面的未来的一个可能再进去更明确一点否则这个部分来说会造成非常大非常大的一个问题不过国 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
3952.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
3977.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
國防的這個議題不在國科會的主政範圍啦這是當然是但是你們在AI的這個部分所以我才剛你課跨部會裡面有沒有來跟你們做更大的一個研商因為這畢竟未來都會是來全面性的來去做這樣子的一個處理跟應用的如果國防部要跟國科會來討論這個事我們會跟所以目前沒有目前沒有那目前AI基本法裡面也還沒有上位要有 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
3978.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4005.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
是否可以广泛的运用目前为止也都还没有做这样的一个规划跟处理目前没有因为AI基本法里面其实是对保障人权是已经很明确的讲出来有七个项目在人权的保障上所以这部分我认为是没有问题的我们就来看看吧不过还是把它放在这个部分因为未来可能你都会应用得到好不好好谢谢谢谢委员好谢谢柯市长委员下一位 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4006.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4016.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
下一位有請羅志祥委員資訊主席有請吳主委有請吳主委主委好 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4028.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4047.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
賴清德總統說政府推動AI新十大建設他希望確保我們下一世代未來30年台灣的國際競爭優勢我想請問主委AI的新十大建設當中國科會是主責哪些項目呢我們負責 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4050.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4072.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
主權AI還有科技的項目包含高速量子運算以及智慧機器人那我們也協助經濟部做這個矽光子的技術跟產業的推動那最後我們希望能夠協助我們整個社會能夠進到全民智慧生活圈好 非常謝謝主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4073.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4096.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
那世界各國都將AI視為影響未來國安國利經濟前景的關鍵那前年啊2024年本席諮詢主委的時候那對當時我國的AI準備度跟總算力的排名下滑那時候本席諮詢主委那主委那時候承諾說未來四年 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4097.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4119.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
2028年要讓台灣的AI準備度達全球前十名總算力達到亞洲前三名以及全球的前十名那我們先來看一下剛好這是我第二次針對這個題目來質詢主委四年還沒有到那我想問主委目前台灣的AI準備度跟總算力的排名如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4123.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4142.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
這個排名各個機構做的其實差異都蠻大的但是我們從去年到今年我們有一個很重要就是在去年的年底在台南科學園區我們國安中心也新建的一個算力中心也開幕 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4143.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4155.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
我們大概會增加5MW的算力設備但是今年我們要啟動新的Data Center的建置我們也希望預算能夠通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4159.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4185.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
如果沒有預算其實我們這個算力的增加是非常困難主委我來說一下當然這個也謝謝政府部門在整個硬體的籌備上來開始去努力那至於國際的指標當然是作為參考可是參考其實也是一個非常有所謂的指標性跟所謂的可參性就讓政府的幫忙檢驗我們政府哪些地方還要加強 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4186.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4207.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
那我看到資料在TOP500的超級電腦算力排名的話目前我國總算力是來到亞洲第四那接近全球前十名那這部分我覺得是給予我目前的整個方向給予肯定但是在牛津大學發布的政府AI準備度台灣從2023年的19名2024年上升為16名但是現在卻下降到2025年的26名 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4215.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4229.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
那去年是16名今年掉到26名掉了10名那我想請問主委因為當時主委是對於所謂全球指標部分你蠻有信心的嘛那我想請問你還有信心在後年就可以達到全球前10名嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4230.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4256.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
我們在TOP的排名大概現在大概在13左右是那這一部分我們一一我們現在規劃努力的方向應該進到前10名應該是沒問題因為我跟主委說一下這個總名次包含民間那我現在談的是政府的AI準備度那政府AI準備度當然可以作為我們產業的支撐那這個排名的下滑我覺得可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4257.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4272.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
還是需要主委這邊來多加注意一下是 這個我們還需要努力在好 那這個排名它是從政府能力科技產業及資料與基礎建設三大面向評估各國政府的AI準備度 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4273.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4297.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
剛剛有聽到主委有講到實際上在很多基礎建設上國會現在也在加緊努力這一點給予肯定但是在AI治理政策整合跟公共應用能力上他指出我們是相對不足所以2025年才會排名下降到26名這一點我覺得就是打出一個警訊就是在AI治理政策整合跟公共部門應用能力上 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4298.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4304.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
主委你現在看到我們的困境在哪裡為什麼這地方在國際上的評鑑覺得是相對不足的呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4304.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4334.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
台湾因为以往其实到目前为止我们都是AI硬体的制造的强国对对那在应用上面的确我们正在努力是那我们在这个刚刚提到AI新十大建设我们要推动到全民智慧生活圈的话是必须要去把那个应用的产业要建立起来所以这一部分我们今年启动了一些计划希望能够逐步的展现成效未来几年是比较乐观的好 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4335.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4361.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
那除了前面兩項評比我看到國科會過去提供的資料當中還有一個是由英國的TOTOIS顧問機構所發布的全球人工智慧指數那2025年最新評比結果我們台灣在93個國家當中排名第16美國跟中國大陸是第一名跟第二名而新加坡是排名第三韓國第五日本第十一都是領先我國 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4362.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4390.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
那雖然在這個評比當中AI基礎建設排名是第七屬前段班但一樣是在AI人才開發能力跟商業生態系這些部分都比前一年相較它得到的分數比較低啦那這個我覺得也是一個警訊那我想請問主委你怎麼去看待這份報告那台灣是全球半導體你剛才講到最重要的生產基地我們在硬體尤其在民間的部分我們是非常的強 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4391.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4402.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
而且我國的經濟規模財富水準都不輸人但是在整體AI發展還沒有辦法進到全球實名之內這點是不是低於你的預期你覺得要不要再努力一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4403.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4425.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
我們的確是要朝這個方向努力沒有錯謝謝委員的提醒我們過去在硬體的製造基本上都是提供給國外這些大廠但是從去年開始我們也台灣民間的廠商也大幅的投資他們大幅的投資的原因也是因為政府提出AI新十大建設以後他們覺得將來我們會推動這個應用 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4428.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4443.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
因為算力的設備建置完不應用的話它是浪費掉的,是非常龐大的投資所以除了政府的投資引導民間也投資我們希望未來這幾年大幅度的來提升我們的應用讓這個排名可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4444.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4466.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
往正面的發展那另外我覺得裡面有一個我覺得特別值得我們大家來參考的就新加坡新加坡的AI國力排名第三僅次於美國跟中國大陸那事實上我們也看到新加坡對於AI也是投入了非常多的一些心力那政府到民間對於AI的應用也做得很徹底 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4467.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4491.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
那我也看到相關的一些資料新加坡有70%的公司用AI75%的人民用AI那全國動員鋪天蓋地就是要藉AI提高生產力然後政府也推動相關的人才培訓我想問一下我們的主委我們有針對台灣我們現在目前AI使用的狀況比如新加坡有70%的公司用AI |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4492.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4516.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
那我們現在這個大中小各型企業使用AI的比例的調查或是我們全國人民現在開始使用AI大概有多少比例您知道嗎台灣的比例應該是蠻低的那我同意新加坡不管政府還是民間在AI的使用其實是比例是蠻高的我有一個具體建議給主委啦就是說你剛也承認說我們台灣這兩項比例相對較低 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4517.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4536.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
但是我覺得這是一個直觀的說法我覺得國科會現在既然AI作為你們重要的一個業務的話你國會會考慮要發布類似的所謂的一些調查進行類似的調查來去看看台灣人民針對所謂AI的使用以及企業針對AI使用的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4537.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4559.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
但如果建立逐年的比較的話國會會員就會比較知道說到底我們哪些地方進步了哪些地方是我們弱勢可以補強我不知道主委可以做這件事情嗎謝謝委員這個建議很好了我們會採納好那最後還是要請主委思考一下事實上從入礦巡邏設區域報休超市用AI智慧推車 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4560.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4580.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
用AI偵測炸機出入境通關醫療流程到知識服務交通管理這些在AI在新加坡的民眾的日常生活已經都可以看到那裡面甚至有一樣東西我覺得主委你也可以跟各部會來協調就是地鐵站甚至引用AI的手語翻譯虛擬的人他可以用把即時廣播變成手語 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4582.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4609.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
能夠來服務聽障人士也就是說他對於所謂的我們的所謂的身心障礙人士的透過AI的輔助應用這一點也開始加強去應用那這一點我覺得國科會這邊的話也可以跟各部會一起來協調怎麼樣讓AI更方便的讓台灣人民進入到這個智慧生活跟便利生活謝謝 謝謝委員的建議好 謝謝主委 謝謝好 謝謝羅志強委員的質詢我們下一位 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4610.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4635.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
葛如今委員的質詢 謝謝謝謝主席 有請吳主委好 有請主委各位好主委好 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4636.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4643.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
請問主委知道我們賴總統的名字英文名字裡面有哪兩個英文字母是您應該要非常關注的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4644.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4671.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
AI很好賴總統應該也是最重視AI我想要跟您請教一件事去年年底我們千辛萬苦的一起努力共同通過了AI基本法我們總統也在1月份也正式把它簽署完成你的報告裡面也都有提到在第6條有提到行政院要成立AI戰略特別委員會剛剛也有委員有問到 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4673.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4686.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
那我們也非常關注這件事那因為這個您應該也在裡面扮演很重要的角色所以請問主委從去年底到現在四個月了這個委員會辦理的進度怎麼樣有沒有開會 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4688.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4702.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
AI戰略委員會的規劃從總統公佈以後我們就開始就進行了有沒有開會?有 左院長都主持會有開過幾次會?不是委員會 就是籌備的對 籌備會開過了幾次?什麼時候? |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4706.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4724.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
好多次 這個算不清了我們發文請教你們的同仁AI基本法所定戰略小組織辦理進度是怎麼樣 機密不能不能分享嗎為什麼這個竟然說複製貼上完全把法條複製貼上 您看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4726.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4753.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
那幾次會議為什麼不能分享 這不是辦理進步嗎內部還在規劃會議有沒有會議記錄你說無數次的會有沒有會議記錄無數次是包含很多就碰面 傳個LINE也是無數次嗎不是啦 工作層級的會議因為這是跨部會的 我們有三政委的會議還有那個副院長主持的會議 院長主持的會議那能不能會後提供這些會議的日期記錄 可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4755.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4772.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
都提供出來可以嗎相關規劃過程我們做哪些事我們會提供那日期呢會議記錄日期呢我們這個政務系統不是用LINE在開會沒有日期的吧哇 三政委什麼時候討論哇 我們現在在國會裡要問都沒有答案嗎幕僚傳來個訊息給我法條複製貼上 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4777.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4794.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
我們一定會按照這個法在立法院通過的決議事項會辦理時程我們也會這樣所以提供資料好不好因為主委我想其實非常簡單因為我們現在已經過了三分之一的時間法條裡面有提到 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4794.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4810.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
一年內要開會嘛對不對認知嘛那我想卓院長一定也認為很需要那國客會是幕僚單位我想不要到時候卓院長要開會了幕僚作業還沒有完成這個我想不是我們希望看到的吧謝謝委員只派國客會來做這個事誰謝謝委員啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4816.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4828.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
主委我想我們這個是一個民主制度我們立法院113位委員共同的完成第六條有沒有表決主委知道嗎我不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4833.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4862.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
第六條沒有表決啊第六條是共識啊所以是感謝委員們好不好感謝委員們不分黨派嘛所以我想這一點也是希望能夠持續關心那本席要在這裡特別提醒主委AI變化真的很快速啊剛剛我在台下聽有委員質詢說您的回應是什麼南部有一個新的算力中心是多少MW您可以再說一次目前第一階段建置5.15.1嘛那第二階段呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4863.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4871.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
也就要看後續的預算是嘛那我告訴您您應該知道現在在美國建算力工廠的單位是多少您知道嗎唉 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
4876.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
4894.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
美國那麼大的國家他們的市場那麼大我們國科會建的只是為了服務我們的學員但是我們會引起民間的投資所以民間投資剛剛這個問題很科學啦美國的單位到底是多少啦Gigawatt對嘛Gigawatt是Megawatt的幾倍啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
4903.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
4923.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
科學的問題不要不好意思我們要有自信嘛不是說不講就是沒有嘛來 主席沒有啦 問這個GigaWatt是MegaWatt幾倍您停這麼久我想我們全國學員單位會覺得很憂心喔是幾倍GigaWatt是MegaWatt幾倍這個我大一的 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
4924.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
4951.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
那個計算機概論對嘛所以我們要所以可以回答嘛是幾倍講那個沒有意義啊台灣不可能做這麼大的啊多幾倍嘛這個科學的問題我們在這裡不能回答嗎1024倍很好就是1000倍左右啦對不對1024不是10001024好1024那請問馬斯克剛成立的要做一個算力工廠的叫做什麼名字 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
4954.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
4972.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
叫Terawatt又是GW的幾倍?我想也不用問啦,再1024倍嘛,對不對?所以我想主委,您剛剛說美國很大晶片生產最多的地方是哪裡? |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
4974.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
4987.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
是哪裡 台灣嘛台灣嘛 對嘛 全世界先進製程最好的地方在這裡嘛沒有這些先進製程 他們有辦法蓋這些G瓦有辦法蓋這些T瓦嗎 沒辦法嘛 是吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
4989.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5005.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
所以我想主委有能力的人找解方沒能力的人找藉口我想在這裡我們在台灣我們要很驕傲的說出來我們也可以談GWR我們也可以談TIWA我們不一定要蓋在台灣啊我們可以跟人家合作啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5006.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5025.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
是吧我們可以跟這些產業談好一些合作的機制這個其實就是我們期望在國家戰略委員會裡面要討論的因為我理解這很可能不是完全是主委的權責但是幕僚機構早一點推進我們可以從立法院的角度來說誒院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5027.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5045.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
幕僚已經完成作業你怎麼還不召開可以理解嗎 主委我想我們的意識是一致的啦希望主委把這個事情放在心上那另外這個最近很紅啦 小龍蝦這個我們我很崇拜李鴻毅老師有一個解剖小龍蝦的影片主委有看過嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5047.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5055.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
你說影片 我沒看過這個陳副主委應該有看過李宏毅老師的影片我在這邊幫李宏毅老師廣告一下因為這部影片很長 大概兩個小時但他非常精準的拆解了最近的這個風潮open club這個風潮我想這一點為什麼我要問是因為有很多媒體或者是一些人會擔心這個agent很危險 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5073.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5093.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
但是我們還是要講一個新的技術出來風險的觀測是正常的但是要看機會啦所以呢我們也希望國科會能夠早一點去討論這個Agentic應用在科學科研這裡面的用途那也謝謝主委副主委都很認同啦這個副主委尤其一直點頭 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5094.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5121.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
那我想要問那剛剛我們提到不管是OpenCloud或者是這些AI Agent其實會需要消耗什麼AI Token請問主委知道AI Token是什麼嗎這運算的輸出運算的輸出的某一種計量的單位或者一種概念那我想要請教主委說您支不支持科學研究去使用更多的AI工具跟AI的Token |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5122.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5147.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
支持啊支持嘛那我想我能不能提一個建議就是我們在延攬國外人才的時候啊我們能不能提供更多的AI Token來當作誘因為什麼因為全世界都知道台灣有很多晶片嘛沒有這些先進製程的晶片沒有AI Token可以產出也沒有辦法輸入對吧那我們能不能去評估台灣可以成為一個我們不一定有自己 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5148.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5170.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
很多的GigawattTerawatt的功能可是我們可不可以跟別人合作我可不可以跟別人談條件美國川普都可以說你要出口多少我要扣10%扣20%我要入股這些比較激進的想法我們留給戰略委員會但是我們能不能去提供說第一個像國外的科技人才來台剛剛您提到說什麼人口的問題我覺得這都不是問題我們能不能提供更多的AI Token |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5176.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5195.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
同時如果教授做研究有需要用到AI Token國科會能不能針對這些Token用得多用得好的教授我們給予多一點的補助跟支持這個沒問題這個建議很好其實我們也是朝這個方向在走太好了那一個月內可不可以提供相關的行動的可能性方案給我們參考可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5196.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5220.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
好 那我們陳副主委好 這個我覺得大家都會非常認同的這也會是您的一個得證好不好那這個主席已經站起來讓我爭取一點點時間請問主委還有一件事剛剛我們都講英文AI Token請問Token這個詞在我們繁體中文你剛剛一直講主權AI嘛文化主權嘛請問繁體中文怎麼翻譯繁體中文怎麼翻譯我還沒有翻譯過 我還不曉得 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5230.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5242.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
我想全國民眾看到這段重播都會非常難過我們行政單位不要把主權AI當成一個招牌名詞掛在頭上 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5245.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5272.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
它比較接近應該是磁源因為它是用智源去生出來的東西但很不幸的磁源是中國政府公告的翻譯方式我們目前還沒有我們還沒有正式的翻譯是啊那我們不是應該走在前面嗎台灣的晶片沒有這些晶片沒有這些Token的這些速度我們能不能我們主委作為AI的大家長我們能不能整理一下目前AI上面相關翻譯的問題不只是Token |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5275.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5303.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
還有非常多的什麼智慧體啦代理人啦相關的這些機制我想我們要有主權AI沒有這種文化性的定義不會有主權AI喔因為科學的進展很快啦科技的領域不見得能夠很即時的所有的名詞都有各種語言的翻譯不見得但是如果英文是通用的話像我們講AI也變通用啦大家都習以為常的話不會被誤解這樣應該是OK啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5304.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5312.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
主委我想我們有能力的人我們來做事我們有能力的人來找解方我相信主委您是有能力的人對嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5313.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5337.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
當然如果token這個字已經用得非常頻繁那需要有中文的翻譯反正如果大家最後都習以為常我們產業上很不幸啦現在是在使用中國大陸的翻譯啦也許那不是最好的也許那個是我們可以接受的我們國客會可不可以有一個相關的定調啊可以嗎可不可以一個月夠不夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5339.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5356.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
我們不能指定說這個詞應該怎麼翻因為民間不見得會接受所以這個可能有個程序過去這種程序就是外語翻成中文的程序關於這個程序可不可以提供一些演繹的結果我們跟教育部來討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5357.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5380.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
我想这个真的是为了我们国内的科研一起在做事不好意思让主席这么麻烦我最后就希望说主委多协调一下我们战略特别委员会是一个很重要的平台提到了这个主旋的文化这种语汇的这种正式的翻译我也希望我们主委一起来努力还有包含科研的单位教授使用AI token的这些激励好不好好谢谢 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5383.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5407.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
好謝謝我們葛委員的質詢謝謝主委那有關於剛剛AI Token我們葛如君委員所關心的部分陳副主委有承諾要提出具體的一個計畫相關的一些資料也麻煩會後提供給本委員會所有委員謝謝我們下一位質詢的委員是我們蔡遵守委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5419.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5426.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
主席各位同仁大家早安有請吳主委好有請吳主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5434.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5449.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
蔡委員好主委好主委你在三月的時候到本辦公室然後我們有聊到就是將來我們主委要邀請我們那個大企業進入到我們的五福委員區那這個是我們迎迎鄉親 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5453.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5470.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
很期盼的一個好消息那在這裡我要提醒的就是說雲林呢過去呢它是一個農業大縣那現在呢在轉型為精密製造跟半導體的一個記錄那這個配套必須要跟上那國科會的一個業務報告有提到驚橫台灣的一個宴景 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5474.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5501.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
然後來推動大南方的一個矽谷那請問主委府委園區作為中科的一個重要的基地國科會要如何具體的跟地方政府來做一個合作解決園區裡面的一個人外交通還有住宅的供應供給還有在地供應鏈的一個磨合這些基礎配套要如何做呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5503.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5527.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
首先中科的湖尾園區目前廠商的進駐率其實是蠻高的已經大約到95%了特別是委員有關心跟半導體有關的我們也成功的引進矽品它是非常重要的台積電合作的夥伴做先進封裝的 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5528.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5544.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
那在於因為細品進駐以後將來所帶來的這個就業的人口也會增加所以我們跟現在正積極的跟地方政府還有交通部正在研議怎麼樣去改善未來可能會造成的一些交通有差的這個問題這個請委員放心 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5549.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5574.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
因為在剛剛我有講到均衡台灣嘛那均衡台灣呢其實在我們的地方創生裡面呢它也是一個重要的一個政策均衡台灣就是要均衡人口那這個虎尾原區呢它所在地呢它的地點其實相當的優勢它是在虎尾高鐵而且呢鄰近了很多鄉鎮那如果說要 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5576.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5600.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
從地方創生來看我們需要有更多的年輕人回流然後製造更多的一個就業機會那這個虎尾原區旁邊還有很多的國有土地那是不是如果能夠擴廠的話製造更多的機會讓年輕人能夠回流就業那請問主委你這樣有沒有做一個長期的規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5602.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5608.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
如果現在縣政府如果很積極的能夠來規劃相關的未來產業發展的用地也符合都市計劃法相關的規範能夠讓 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5621.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5640.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
因為有一些環評等等配合地方發展都市計畫配套措施都完善的話那我們中部科學研究會努力來跟我們的產業端來連結看看有沒有這樣的用地需求如果有的話我們會努力來協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5641.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5648.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
謝謝主委因為引領畢竟是偏鄉人口外流非常的嚴重我們也希望有很多企業能夠進駐來帶動我們的那個年輕人的一個就業機會再來呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5655.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5679.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
這個水跟電對於這個園區的一個影響關係自大那我要但是呢雲林它也是農業大縣那水的使用還有那個匯水的一個排除排放直接會影響到農產品的一個品質所以大量而且大量的一個電力的需求也會使那個燃煤那個電廠能夠火力全開這樣對於園區的一個空氣品質會 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5683.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5692.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
造成相當大的一個傷害那請問主委那對於那個園區的一個水電的使用規劃是有沒有前瞻的一個作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5693.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5722.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
目前引進矽品因為它是一個算是比較大用量的一個公司那對於這個水電我們都有及早規劃經濟部其實是非常的幫忙那這個廢水的處理現在我們所有的科學研區在廢水的處理上現在都是模範的所以都是符合所有的法規絕對是不會讓我們附近的這個居民感到會有這個污染物的排放 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5723.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5738.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
那至於未來如果說按照委員講的未來如果還有長遠的規劃的話當然我們在這個供水供電以及廢棄物的處理這些我們都要及早的去因應及早的規劃這個就需要我們跨部會來討論跟地方政府要一起 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5739.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5763.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
它結合這個都市計畫跟這個居民的溝通這個生態保育團體民間的各種團體這個都要溝通得好這個需要地方政府要積極來協助好 那我們希望能夠把這個當成我們地方的一個紅利然後呢 我要再來請教那個主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5765.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5785.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
在國科會在業務報告中有提到推動臺灣特色還有價值的運動文化的研究那要請問主委建構臺灣運動生態是這個議題能夠幾句說明嗎好這一部分是國科會去年啟動的一個計畫那進行了我們人文處 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5788.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5813.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
黃處長我請他來說明一下這個計畫我們簡短說明是跟委員報告這運動文化這裡面他強調的就是要讓全民都能夠去理解運動然後甚至參與運動所以他裡頭的一些計畫案包括說健行步道或者是媒體文化裡頭如何呈現運動然後全民如何投入在裡頭等等的這個計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5816.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5824.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
樂見有這樣的一個見解有這樣的一個思維那我要請教主委因為主委你也是運動選手出身的嘛那運動 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5825.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5845.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
跟文化常常有很多人就會覺得說運動就是運動 文化就是文化那主委你如何看待就是運動跟文化其實他們常常就是都有合作就是跨部合作那主委你能不能把這個運動文化這樣一個新的名詞做一個論述呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5846.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
5861.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
把运动当作一个文化的元素这个在西方国家是非常普遍的当作一个元素它会变成我们日常生活的需求日常生活的需求其实是会促进产业的发展 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
5862.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
5883.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
那這個是正向的循環就不要說以後談到運動都是政府要編預算才有辦法辦活動辦比賽等等讓這個民間也會龐大力量也會帶進來所以我們希望把運動變成是文化的一部分所以也就是說未來文化部跟運動部他們是會結合在一起的這個是全民運動就比較能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
5884.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
5912.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
好謝謝主委我希望你這個牆內的一個論述來強化這個運動文化我也希望運動提升到進入融合到文化裡面去那最後我要再請教那個主委因您具備豐富的一個宗教步行宗教步行進香活動那民俗義正還有自然步道很多尤其在美人北起從苗栗沿海經過台中彰化 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
5915.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
5932.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
引領嘉義的這樣的一個媽祖廊道北港朝天宮更是台灣媽祖的一個信仰中心這是發展台灣的運動文化這裡面也寫的這是最好的一個實驗場所我也希望主委能夠支持引領線納入運動 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
5935.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
5956.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
運動領域跟人文社科領域的一個示範的一個縣市將運動、人文、信仰、人口移動還有社會變遷整合來做一個研究我們來看這樣的一個足跡帶動了一個運動還有一個文化的一個領域那這個主委請教你的看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
5958.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
5977.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
我以这个政委身份我也在督导运动部那从这个政委的角度来看我是非常非常欣赏委员这种看法就是说把台湾的这个民俗的文化结合我们的这个运动让它变成是融入我们的生活这个我是支持的 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
5977.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
5995.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
因為我本身也在國科會所以以科技的角度來看將來科技引進以後協助運動、協助文化這個都是很必要的未來我們讓我們的生活變得更好文化進到文明的發展都更好我是很支持這樣的做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
5996.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6024.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
那我們希望能夠做一套這樣的一個研究啦就是步行那個進箱步行一兩百公里這樣的一個運動的一個效果還有就是足跡那個足探這個我們都可以做一個研究吧是是也避免有傷害啦所以這個都需要研究那我們也鼓勵學者我國科會支持如果相關學者願意進來做研究我們會支持好謝謝主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6027.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6045.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
好,我們謝謝蔡委員的質詢,謝謝諸位下一位質詢的委員,林益錦委員謝主席,有請吳主委有請吳主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6052.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6067.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
主委早之前国科会专报的时候那个副主委来答询那我就有跟他讨论到台南沙伦火箭基地的进度那那个时候副主委是因为那时候我们 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6069.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6086.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
我詢問他是說他總預算沒有過那我們這個火箭基地的受到影響會怎樣那時候的副主委是回答說因為這個基地屬於工建計畫所以如果預算被卡住的話那真的只能辦理展演 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6087.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6115.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
那還有當然他有補充說我們還有約100億的這個法案計畫也會被卡住所以我在這裡還是要不斷的不厭其煩的向在野黨喊話就是要儘速放行整包的總預算來進行審查不然我們國家的這個科技國力就會受到延宕被卡住那不僅如此本席也有留意到這個英美對我國這個太空中心釋出的善意 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6117.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6141.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
報導指出美國眾議院委員會通過法案打破一中的限制要跟台灣太空合作另外台灣跟英國太空產業聚落SSC合作升級要聚焦衛星供應鏈種種這種外國對台灣的動作顯示我們都很清楚知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6142.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6170.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
他們對我們台灣不只是肯定就是我國的太空中心的實力不只是一個技術的接受者我們還是一個任務的參與者那在英國的法案上他更是鼓勵我們雙方在美國的法案他鼓勵我們雙方在太空科學教育啊或者在青年實驗計畫還有太空任務的培訓這方面來做合作 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6171.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6186.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
那至於英國的方向他是從個案性的技術交流演變到制度化還有產業聚落這個對接還有供應鏈的這個整合所以我們因為售鏈總預算沒有通過所以我們就會擔心 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6187.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6209.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
不只是我們國內的建設沒辦法進行我們包括跟外國的這些太空的合作可能也會失去一些大好機會所以想要請主委你怎麼看這個我剛以上所提的那是不是再進一步說明就如果總預算沒過那怎麼影響到我們國內的這個太空發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6209.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6228.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
首先委員提到我們跟美國跟英國太空的合作這是過去大家無法想像的就是因為台灣在這個我們半導體我們在AI硬體製造這個實力將來都會影響到所有這些產業包含太空的這個產業所以他們現在積極跟我們合作所以我們才有機會 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6230.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6250.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
將來賴總統講的要禁足太空我們才有機會能夠達到這個目標所以我也很期待說我們在台南的火箭研發的基地能夠順利的動工今年我們開始要進行弓箭計畫要啟動預算當然如果沒有通過我們是連啟動都沒有辦法啟動 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6253.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6281.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
因為它是一個新的案子是那這個工電計畫後續會搭配我們很多國會也要編列這個研發的研發的這個預算火箭之外我們的衛星也會持續持續的這個發展我們衛星已經連結到我們的產業了所以現在美國英國還有其實還有很多國家日本加拿大歐洲其他國家我們都有很多未來合作的機會希望我們我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6282.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6289.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
大願能夠支持我們的預算謝謝那同時本席有留意到就是說上週NASA |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6292.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6316.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
阿提米斯2號有成功升空它的繞月的飛行距離也打破了離地球最遠的距離這是太空發展的新紀錄所以要請教國科會我們台灣是否跟得上這股登月的潮流我們是否有相關的研究跟計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6318.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6338.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
登月?有,我們有相關的計畫,我們有一些籌載,將來可能在,我們現在還保密的,將來如果成功以後會跟國人來宣布,我們跟美國的合作,將來在他們的登月計畫上,台灣一定會參與的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6340.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6365.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
這真是一個好消息再來要跟諸位討論的就是國科會的台灣講座計畫國科會這個人設研究發展處的前處長林斌仁他有提過說大概從1990年代開始許多在海外發展的人設的學生他心中都有這樣的一個疑問就是說我到底什麼時候才能以台灣作為研究的對象 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6366.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6394.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
我們可以知道在當時的時空背景下你要用台灣做主體獨立於中國的框架之外來做研究對象當然是很困難那可是在今天全世界都意識到台灣的重要性台灣已經有研究的獨立地位的今天那我們在國外從事台灣研究的學生其實都還有可能受到來自中國或者親近中國的教授的學者的誤解甚至是刁難 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6395.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6422.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
那比較輕的是說台灣的研究者被邊緣化比較嚴重的是說他可能會影響到他獲取教職的機會所以台灣研究在國際上的生存空間絕對需要國科會、外交部、教育部去把它撐起來我們不能讓這些學生跟教授在海外是單打獨鬥所以我要強調不只是我們國內有台灣史的補課潮在國際上也掀起一股我們期待進一步認識台灣的這個趨勢 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6424.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6440.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
所以光是從文學的面向來講像上週楊雙子的台灣漫遊錄就入為英國國際布克獎的決選名單這其實是空前的突破各界都在為台灣打拚 拚出好成績所以國科會也應該要更努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6441.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6465.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
那最初國科會的這個台灣講座計畫確實覺得是野心勃勃跟教育部行之有年的台灣研究講座我覺得有最大的差異是說國科會的計畫比較注重在培養教職那可以長期留在學校那有能力可以影響這個學術研究方向的這個終身職的這個教授那可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6466.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6486.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
努力的在發展海外學術界台灣的研究網絡那所以要請教主委是我們的執行這個成果如何就我們為什麼本來是奠基在教育部的基礎之上可以進一步發揮的計畫感覺現在好像又縮水跟教育部差不多的一樣的模式 主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6487.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6514.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
謝謝委員這個計畫就是在林明仁前處長任內起動這個是蠻有意義的是那國科會跟教育部是互相搭配教育部的這個計畫是比較廣泛的因為它是以教學為主國科會是支持學者要做研究所以只要我們現在正在努力只要有國外的學者願意做跟台灣相關的研究我們會努力去來邀請他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6516.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6540.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
來講助他們能夠多多做台灣議題的研究所以這一部分並沒有縮水我們還是持續會支持的因為台灣比起中國我們最大的優勢就是我們民主開放多元而且可被監督所以加上教育部它這個台灣研究講座這個計畫其實已經跟國外很多大學的這種奠定了一個長年互信的基礎 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6541.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6566.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
所以不論是國科會也好教育部或外交部我覺得我們應該進一步思考如何突破的可能而不是滿足於三到五年的這種三到五年就可以要重新簽約啦那計畫主持人就不斷的一直在找錢為自己找工作的感覺所以我的意思是說我們看其他的韓國就好我們隔壁的韓國人家是從 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6568.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6594.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
90年代就開始用國家的力量來支撐他們的高等的教育跟這個學術領域的這些補助終生值的教授然後韓國的策略它培育大量的未來可以了解韓國的學術人才啊然後可以輸出韓國的這種研究我們很明顯知道是當代流行文化的這個成效是非常卓越的所以我們看看韓國的例子來看看台灣就國科會 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6596.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6603.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
我們的政策如果就現況來看是不是還需要被突破然後才可以有比較好的效果出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6605.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6631.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
謝謝林委員講這個議題的確是非常非常重要的那因為我們的這個文化要整體學術界的文化要改變是需要花一點時間那我們已經在努力把這個多年期的這個計劃的比例把它逐步在增加當中所以就是說老師不要每年都忙著要寫計劃寫報告就是要讓他可以有比較 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6633.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6650.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
長的時間可以專心做這個研究這個的確我們在改善當中我們的比例在提升了好好那期待國客會對於這個領域再努力一點好OK好那因為時間到了好謝謝主席謝謝委員謝謝我們林委員質詢下一位委員陳秀寶委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6667.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6669.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
謝主席請吳主委有請吳主委陳委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6676.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6682.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
主委好 首先我們先來關心國際間對AI機器人研發的進展3月份的會談在GTC大會中亮相機器人版學保讓AI機器人的討論度再度飆升近期中國的機器人是被評論為發展快速 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6697.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6713.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
那各种这个机器人的表演也一直在各影音平台播放甚至华尔街日报也报道说美国即便是掌握了先进的芯片但如果没有中国的相关零组件机器人是动不了主委您觉得呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6714.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6739.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
目前的市場如果像這種人型機器人的確中國的發展是比較早也比較全面但是這種人型機器人要做什麼事情這是一個比較可以討論的地方其中台積電董作魏哲嘉在近日出席活動的時候就評論說中國的機器人表示說中國大陸的機器人跳來跳去沒有用那只是好看而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6741.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6758.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
主委您剛提到要看它本身研發出來它的作用對我們的需求度的幫助在哪裡您覺得說我們跟中國的機器人的發展是發展的方向不同還是發展的本質上有差異 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6759.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6777.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
我們方向還有本質都不一樣我們發展機器人的目的是要協助我們社會各行各業各個層面的需求也就是說我們把機器人當作人的助手因為現在有AI我們都知道有AI agent AI代理 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6778.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6804.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
你在電腦上面可以他可以幫你做很多事情可是我們不能夠我們生活上不是只有一天到晚都要接觸電腦手機啊我們很多事情如果需要有形體的這種機器自動化的機器他可以來幫我們的話這種服務型的機器人他不一定是人形也可以是動物的形狀或其他的只要跟人可以互相互動可以接觸有自主性協助人類不管是危險性的出眾的 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6805.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6818.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
不是人類的能力不足的主委您的表達就是說這個看是不是針對需求而來開發的針對需求開發 對那我們去年呢國客會有宣示要發展智慧機器人我想知道一下現在目前的進度在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6819.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6840.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
我们智慧机器人的方案,我们总共有200亿的预算,那个逐年在进行,我们今年是第一年才刚要启动,可是因为现在总预算还没有审查,所以有些新的案子是启动不了。所以真的还是卡在总预算的这个部分,那关于人才培育的部分呢,我们相关的规划呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
6840.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
6858.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
人才培育我們是一直都在進行當中不是只有今年我們每年都有預算各部會也不是只有國會國會負責的是研發人力的培育我們主力是在大學大學的研發的工作那經濟部也編了很多的預算是在培養在職在從業人員能夠再訓練 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
6861.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
6884.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
然後他還有各個行業需求端要使用AI的教他們怎麼樣去使用這些工具所以我們從科技端提供AI跟使用AI的人才我們現在各部會都有一些所以我們在人才培育的進度上是有跟上來的那其實本席比較憂心就是說我們發展智慧機器人的進度 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
6886.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
6902.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
剛主委您提到的就是預算的部分我們在這個智慧機器的預算115年是匡列了有9.8億元但是115年的總預算被藍白擱置到現在還沒有審所以目前智慧機器的計畫可能會面臨停擺 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
6903.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
6915.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
面臨延宕的這個問題那主委你也會不會擔心說像這樣的狀況是不是會打擊到我們科研人員的信心包括整個產業界的信心 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
6918.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
6936.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
這一點的確是啦,因為9.8月是國會要編的,要第一要支持我們學界做研究第二我們要成立國研院,要成立一個國家機器人中心那因為案子還沒有辦法啟動,所以學界都在很焦急的在詢問 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
6937.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
6966.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
其实这不仅是说相关的产业关心我们产业发展的国人会觉得很失望我想在国际间相关机器人产业想要跟我们合作有兴趣的一些都会觉得却步因为他们觉得我们是有这个能力的但是因为卡在预算我一直没有办法启动那我想这个不只是对国人在国际间也会对我们的整个的这个延旦这个停滞不前也是会有一些失望那其实我们国内的我们的 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
6967.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
6978.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
智慧機器人產業不只是因為說我們有半導體及精密機械的一個優勢我們也期望說透過產業人才的整合打造我們台灣的這個相關的產業鏈那也希望說未來國際間這個智慧機器人的高度發展下也可以帶動我國相關產業來前進 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
6985.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7002.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
所以這個部分除了說現在是因為整個的預算卡住了有一些新興的相關的計畫沒辦法推動但是我們原本有在做的也希望說我們要持續的來推動那這邊我先請教主委在去年底我們有發射第一個台灣自治衛星服務會8號 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7004.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7017.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
那我們第一顆這個光牙衛星發射之後目前的運行是非常的順利啦這個部分本行真的非常肯定也非常感謝我們太空中心的努力那後續我們剩下的衛星發射的期程請問我們有規劃了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7019.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7036.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
有啊非常感謝委員的肯定其實我對太空中心過去這一年來所表現的表現出來的這個成果我也非常非常的讚賞我請我們吳宗興主任跟委員報告一下最新的這個成果請吳主任 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7038.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7060.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
主要我們是福威8號有8顆然後基本上原的規劃就是一年一顆中間也有到2031要deploy總共8顆一顆上去所以中間有兩年大概會有兩顆上去基本上是這個樣子影像的品質非常的好第一顆呢我們衛星的關鍵元件有84%是國產的資率有來到84%那下一顆的衛星會不會提高 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7065.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7082.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
我們希望提高到九成可以提高到九成我們有這樣的信心喔那其實剛才主委您講的我們太空中心的第一波的取向成果是非常的好它那個影片的這個清晰度呢是優於我們原始設計這點大家都覺得說非常的開心就是說我們應該是很順利的達到一個這樣的成果 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7085.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7113.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
那也希望你們也其實太空中心有表達就是說福衛8號呢取得的這個全球解析度最高的這個紅邊波段影像可以應用於在不管是災害防救國家安全或是說我們的國土繪製地表監測還有精準農業這個都可以應用到那我想請教目前我們取得的這些相關的數據有沒有跟相關的部會來做一個橫向的聯繫跟合作 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7114.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7132.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
有,譬如說我們在災害防救的部分,我們在災害應變中心需要的話,很多的資料我們都會提供。那我們在國安的需求,我們在這個社會的韌性,這些都要,氣象當然不用講。 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7132.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7144.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
所以很多的層面我們跨部會都有在使用這些太空的資料因為既然我們有這麼取得這麼優質的這樣子的相關的這個影像我們來協助其他相關的部會我們有更緊密更積極的橫向聯繫的話我相信這個提升各部門這個行政效率也會有很大的幫助那我們再回到我們剛才提到的這個很實際的這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7158.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7184.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
就是國科會目前有許多新興計畫預算都沒有審那國科會沒有辦法推動相關的這個科研發展除了剛剛我們有提到的智慧機器的前瞻技術研發還有量子運算這個主機的建制就是算力的部分那還有太空中心台南沙崙整合測試研發基地這是攸關我國太空科研的這個部分了還有這個金創計畫的加速矽光子技術 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7185.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7213.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
自主以及产业链成型这个相关的计划都是攸关各种重要科研领域的计划那现在其实世界在大力的发展像我们刚刚讨论这个智慧机器人还有AI的算力太空产业的同时我们却还因为就是我们的预算没有省益而停滞不前那主委您觉得您会不会担心说这样子对我们科研会有造成很严重的不良的影响 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7215.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7218.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
我們當然會擔心雖然現在有一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7219.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7245.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
有一些新的這個計畫我們使用既有的這個計畫能夠先做一點準備的工作可是畢竟它無法真正的啟動的話所有的人都沒有辦法能夠全心全意來答應說要執行這個計畫所以它很多人我們現在就沒有辦法找齊所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7247.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7269.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
我們還是很希望這個真的是一個很嚴重很嚴重的影響到我們整個科研發展的一個阻礙所以真的我還是要在這邊呼籲在野黨其實為了我們台灣的科技發展我們應該盡速的來審議新興計畫預算不要延宕台灣的未來發展那其實科技發展設置協議幾乎是一日千里 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7269.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7290.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
那世界各國都一直在研發新的科技我們其實我們的科研也是極其直追甚至一直有超越的這樣子的優勢但是呢就被這個預算沒有審議而拖到我們整個科技發展進步的後腿這是非常的遺憾所以說真的在這邊還是要呼籲在野黨我們儘速來審議我們的預算讓我們整個科研的腳步可以繼續往前邁進謝謝陳委員謝謝主委 謝謝主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7302.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7311.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
好 謝謝我們陳委員的資訊謝謝 主委我們休息五分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7321.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7322.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
這裏應該是很難看的 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7344.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7372.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
這個...這個...這個...這個... |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7376.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7376.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
哦哦 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7386.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7387.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
這裏有個小巨星 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7409.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7423.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
现在资料创新条例啊上次有开会有一个部会主讲对我是发出两个方案送到地区一个是资料创新的现在在运营在使用那再想一次是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7425.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7426.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
TokenToken |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7635.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7656.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
現在繼續開會請郭一群委員質詢 謝謝好 謝謝主席 有請主委有請主委郭委員你好 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7657.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7674.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
主委早安我想先問一下關於這個學術倫理的一個問題我想剛剛這個培育委員也已經問過但這也同時是我們一起都共同在關心的問題我想近期台中科大的這個陳校長那他涉及這個所謂的學術倫理的一些爭議 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7675.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7692.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
那目前為止其實教育部還沒有提出就是要調查或者是其他的一些後續反而是我看到這個國科會我們的這個調查工作已經開始起動了那這一點其實給國科會一個肯定喔那我想呢這個他的爭議喔就疑似一稿兩段 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7694.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7717.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
兩頭一稿兩頭那另外呢還有是同時也向我們的國科會之前也申請了這個所謂的這個學術研究的一個補助大概將近有600多萬那另外呢還包含他也跟中國來申請同樣的一個經費的補助那另外呢在這個論文的標注的部分這是我們非常在意的部分那他特別自稱是安徽後丘人 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7718.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7739.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
同時在論文的部分也寫了台灣 China雖然陳校長他們透過校方公開的說明說他不知情這件事情是有人刻意要抹黑但是我們已經啟動了調查目前我所知道的是我們已經在進行初審的部分了對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7739.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7759.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
是 我們已經啟動調查程序會查證這個事那這個是初審的部分已經完成了嗎那副審什麼時候會進來還沒有 現在在學校在進行當中還在進行當中那有沒有預計什麼時候會完成然後或者是說我們的副審的部分是什麼時候會有一個比較確定的一個時程 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7760.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7780.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
我們預計4月底學校要調查完畢要回函那如果這個調查是屬實那之前他所申請的這個研究的一個補助我們是會追回嗎還是說我們也會有後續的其他的一些處分後續會依照我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7782.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7806.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
論理委員會審查審議的結果我們看情節的輕重事實來決定那個懲處的部分我想這個問題其實也凸顯了就是在這些所謂的這個補助不管是重複申請也好或是跨國的一個審查的一個困難度我想這也凸顯了這樣的一個問題將來國科會要如何來勾結而不是只有靠所謂的檢舉 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7808.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7825.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
因為這一次這個事件是因為媒體就是檢舉然後媒體披露然後我們國科會進入調查那教育部目前是還沒有回應那之後的比方說像跨國的期刊會補助的一些資料的一個比對的一個機制我們有沒有想過這個部分我們可能要來做研議跟改進 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7826.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7853.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
我們可以來研議看看看看有沒有更好的工具讓國科會在這一類的事情發生的時候我們不需要等待檢舉我們就可以察覺其實應該要同步趕快就先來補救因為同樣的這件事情發生可能之後也許還會有第二件那這個部分其實如果我們的機制能夠早點出來的話其實也可以防止這樣子的一個問題的產生爭議的產生好 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7856.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7882.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
那接下來我想問一下就是關於我們的這個國家發射場的一個選址那目前我們已經確定了就是在屏東滿洲的這個九鵬村那我也看了大概是這個去年12月20號的這個第二場的一個公聽會但是針對這個選址的部分我還是想要請教一下這個主委那報告中其實有特別提到就是說預計這樣子的一個每年的觀光的效益會高達6萬人 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7884.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7902.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
這個是我們在報告當中有看到那另外就是會帶動這個地方的一個產業的發展創造120個間接或直接的一個跟太空相關的一個就業的一個機會但我想請教的就是說這個報告當中剛剛我提到的三項的一個正面的一個效果這個是 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7903.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7929.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
模型的推估還是我們已經有實證的一個基礎因為我們知道這個當地的人口只有378人378人而已喔那近10年來的人口的成長率它是負的它是負2.07%那這樣子的一個衝擊其實不只是這個發展的機會其實也會產生在當地的他們的一個生活的一個巨大的一個衝擊跟改變那這個部分我們想 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7930.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7956.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
到底是模型的推估還是我們有實證可以證明之後會有6萬人觀光有120個這個間接或直接的一個工作的機會的提供然後帶動地方的產業請教這個是依照過去我們觀察在美國在日本類似的這種建設它所帶動的一些效益是也不是我們憑空依測那再加上說我們的規劃將來是要搭配 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7956.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
7980 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
很多的活動也不是只有我們才會發生的一個發射所以我們要建置太空科技博物館也要希望把跟當地的旅遊生態相關的文化活動等等做結合屏東縣政府其實也利用這個機會也做了非常完善的當地發展的一些規劃所以我們希望能夠朝這個目標前進 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
7981.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
7998.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
但是其實我看的那個第二份就是12月20號的那個報告其實我自己有一個感想就是說我們對於所謂的這個居民的影響的評估到底有沒有確實足不足夠因為為什麼因為報告當中我們看到就是發射的期間其實我們要進行海域跟陸域的一個管制對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
7999.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8014.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
然後再來我們也可能會影響到所謂的娛樂跟經濟的活動那再來還有就是我們要用補償跟回饋的一個處理那這個其實這個補償跟回饋是去交換他們的這個居民原本的一個日常的生活嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8017.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8036.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
那個發射期間其實是很短暫的,所以那個管制的期間很短,這個跟現在那個我們的演習等等比起來其實還要短得多但是我們相對的會對當地造成的額外的那種經濟繁榮,其實是遠高於他們在短暫時間所損失的那個漁獲等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8037.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8064.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
應該是大得多 效益會大得多啦這個當然我們都會跟他們溝通溝通看看用什麼樣的方式另外我有看到一點就是說我們要安置的一個方式我們有一個安置的方案嘛那是要協助他們入住這個社宅但是我們知道喔這個酒棚是偏鄉請問最近的社宅在哪裡距離有多遠那生活機能是不是能夠跟他們原本的生活能夠等值我想這個部分我們有沒有考慮進去 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8065.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8092.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
這部分有 這部分其實是我們要仰賴那個屏東縣政府因為他們最了解當地的狀況那我們一定會讓那些居民能夠接受因為一定要比他們現在可能居住的地方更好那覺得不會影響到他的那個生計對這個文化的融入等等我們一定會希望能夠周全的考慮那屏東縣政府正在積極的跟我們一起合作好 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8093.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8121.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
那現在其實我們是12月20號是第二次的公聽會然後是嗎還是會持續我們還是會持續嘛持續到溝通到最完整的一個狀況嘛對不對好那實際的可以發射的時間點是什麼時候我可以問一下嗎因為我們很怕說我衛星做好了可以場域還在公聽會還在環評還在跟當地溝通可能還沒有共識我們當地的這個社宅可能也還沒有處理好 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8123.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8141.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
我們原來的規劃是10年內最快就是2030年希望能夠快一點但是也要看看溝通的狀況等等我們不會很粗糙的去進行一定會好好的溝通有沒有第三次公聽會預計的時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8143.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8166.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
目前法定是新辦事業的那個就是兩次那我們還是持續的在溝通當中我們兩個月其實會跟屏東縣府再做一次工作層次的討論好因為今天時間的關係其實我還有第三題就是我們的這個AI戰略落地的一個檢討那這個部分其實我們到時候看是請這個主委我們再用資料書面上的一個這個網版 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8168.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8195.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
来知道说这个落地的一些关键的问题其实这点也很重要那我想刚刚其实也有多位委员有特别提到我们的AI主权的一个问题我想这个部分其实非常非常非常重要因为我从2024年当时其实我们第一次在这个国会会的这个质询当中其实我就已经在探讨这个问题了那我想这个面向很多那因为时间的关系我想最后就算是给我多一分钟我可能也问不完我到时候再用书面来质询好吗好谢谢 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8196.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8218.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
好 謝謝主席好 謝謝主委好 謝謝郭委員的詢答謝謝主委下一位有請伍麗華 吳委員謝謝趙委主席有請國科會主委有請主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8225.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8253.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
主委好我知道大家都很重視AI主權那實際上國科會速發布這些年不管是夜報或者是每一次的專題報告其實大家都非常關心那最主要大家也都知道因為在這個使用大數據的時代為資料是非常重要的所以這個部分我們也很擔心會被數位殖民 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8253.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8281.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
也很擔心會作為國安的破口有認知作戰的疑慮我其實今天是來關心原住民的部分因為如果我們不重視的話其實這個問題對原住民來講它是更加的被邊緣化更加的不利我舉一個例子像是最近我們都會在TRE上面或者是臉書上面 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8282.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8306.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
會看到有一些一模一樣的模板文章那麼他會去使用像我是什麼族的人然後怎麼樣怎麼樣可是我們就發現說這一些都是AI生成的人那這些人長得既不像台灣的原住民 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8307.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8332.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
更糟糕的是整個文化的挪用錯誤那這個部分呢他因為會影響到未來的大數據那他AI錯誤的生成未來呢又繼續的複製這些錯誤給予認知的錯誤或者是造成偏見更嚴重是產生歧視所以這種被自動化的歧視複製錯誤的現象我覺得他 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8335.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8364.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
不僅僅是同時發布製造輿論帶風向帶流量您看這個圖片上面喔每一個的流量都不少喔像這種模板文章可是你會發現它的流量也非常的大所以它對我們原住民來講就會影響非同小可那麼這樣的一個虛假的原住民言論呢對我們來講就會形成一個災難那為什麼我要特別這樣子提因為我知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8364.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8389.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
我們有編列很多AI的經費但是我們往往會忘記原住民或其他的族群其實他們也面臨到一些問題所以我想了解一下就是目前國科會就是你們針對這個部分有沒有一些經費在支持做這樣的一個原住民族的知識權威餘料庫 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8392.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8417.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
我們在建這個主權AI的語料庫現在正在進行當中是數化部組織那我們也期待原民會是不是可以跟數化部來合作如果我們有更正確的我們援助民主的相關的資料不管是文化面的還是生活面的教育面的等等我們其實都需要更多的語料庫 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8418.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8436.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
那主委我請問一下,因為我查來查去看來看去,國科會就是有一個援助民族永續科技的預算,六千萬左右。那我想知道這六千萬是拿來做什麼用?這部分我想我們請人文處方。好,謝謝。 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8445.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8469.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
跟委員報告我們這個經費最主要就是我們會有幾個重要的就是原民議題的團隊然後在就是包括有關於編播科技還有就是原民的資料平台等等就是會有相關的這個研究團隊所以意思就是說這筆錢其實大部分是用來所謂的專題研究計畫對嗎那 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8473.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8494.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
我現在是想這樣子說 因為其實我們書發部也好 國科會也好你們都有一個台灣主權AI訓練語料庫的經費但是我沒有提醒的話 你們可能會忘記原住民的需求所以這個部分我是希望說 除了這個六千萬 反正預算已經編列 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8495.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8509.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
我想請教主委有沒有可能就是從別的部分我現在做這樣的質詢提醒會不會去幫助我們在關於原住民這個雨料庫的部分會不會去有一些經費來做 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8511.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8536.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
我們只要有學者願意做這個事情我們都會支持不會限定在只有6千萬所以只要有學者願意做那我現在要請教一下因為我看了我們用中長期計畫當然名稱不一樣但是每年就是固定大約6千萬每一年的平均接的這些專題研究計畫專案補助大概也就是50件上下 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8537.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8563.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
那這些東西 主委我能問嗎做了多少年 累積了多少件跟委員報告我們每一年補助的這個計畫案都大概是在十件左右然後詳細的數據我可能再提供給委員但是這邊我也跟委員那做了多少年應該做個 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8565.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8572.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
從過去科技部到現在國發會我猜應該是七八年左右是有的幾年 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8575.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8584.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
這個幾年我可能也要再確認一下我就是想要知道到底做了幾年累積了多少的研究計畫好我現在要談的是說那AI其實也能夠協助分門別類啊我長期一直希望我們原住民能夠提升一個學門出來我要講的就是說因為這些都是透過嚴格的審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8599.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8621.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
他可以產出乾淨的水源是客觀的正確的可以用於AI訓練的這種系統性的知識體系他如果累積到一定的量這些是好的資料乾淨的水源我們也希望能夠提升因為過去我每次問理由都是說目前原住民的研究量能還不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8622.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8643.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
數量還不夠所以呢要慢慢累積但是其實AI也能夠協助來做這件事情所以我就是希望我們把這些當然那個我會要求就是一個月內可以提供我這個資料我們到底做幾年了我們累積了多少的專題研究計畫那我們到底在這個部分我剛剛談的就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8645.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8655.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
主權AI的部分關於原住民的部分我們可不可以來去做這樣的一個研究串聯嫁接那這個部分主委你覺得可行嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8656.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8679.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
我們是鼓勵啦 我同意委員 就是我們鼓勵大家進來研究如果研究的量能足夠 才有辦法成立學門如果說學者人數太少 是沒有辦法成立學門好 那我們就從這個地方開始做起啦我也希望提供這份報告 我們來討論因為我真的希望能夠完成這一件事情好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8680.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8693.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
那最後我就是想要了解一下因為我看今天的夜報這個關於太空的部分只有占一夜半那我其實是蠻關心說國家發射場域的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8696.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8712.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
但是這個夜報就是提到我們的奇柏林衛星發射啦那因為也是在美國的太空基地發射嘛我們的國家發射場域應該也是很重要嘛因為我們的目標就是希望有一天可以自己發射那打造太空產業鏈參與國際論壇我就是沒有看到關於國家發射場域的問題那我現在要說的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8720.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8743.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
其實我們國家發射場域有兩種一個是短期科研探空火箭那個是放在蓄海那當時我剛進入立法院我有要求一定要做好部落諮商同意那這個部分都沒有問題但是這一次選的國家發射場域呢是選了一個不需要做部落諮商同意的那就九棚嘛但是無論如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8744.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8770.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
它都是位在它的附近周遭全部都是原住民的傳統領域那我先不談這個部分我是想要講說照理說這個應該很重要所以我有一些提醒因為公聽會也開了但是我們很多原住民的族人或部落其實他們還是不是很熟悉我也希望有一天我們親自來到地方去辦雙東部落所有這些部落的一場說明會可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8772.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8797.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
我們公聽會可以再繼續辦沒問題好那我就要求一場專門原住民部落辦的我現在是要提醒主委因為當時我其實是把這個當作是孩子因為太空中心主任應該很了解因為我從質詢開公聽會到立法我其實一直很關心因為我知道這個國家太空場域一定會落在原住民地區所以我非常的關心那當時我給主委聽一段話 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8801.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8825.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
當時在討論的時候增列有關結合在地資源與人才發展地方產業鏈營造在地產業生活圈這些文字有放進去了那當時我有提到我原本的版本的比例但是當時的陳國良司長說其實在原基法21條或者是其他有關僱用相關規定都有我們一定會 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8825.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8840.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
那他說如果在本法訂定一定比例的話就很難會變多還是變少最後主席說把它變成附帶決議他們會記得吳委員有要求一定的人的比例將來進行人才賠率或者是產業鏈會考慮到這一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8842.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8865.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
所以這個部分其實對地方是非常重要的那它也已經是確實入法在第14條的第7款那我就是希望說關於這個周邊剛才郭育群委員也有提到這個周邊很重要它的學校的設施啊或者是住宅的設施啊引進外界的人才啊道路交通 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8865.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8888.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
等等等还有促进在地的产业我想这个部分是我们很关心的所以我才会特别希望说我希望在未来我们能够亲自的针对原乡部落来办一场可以吗这没问题那以上就希望一个月内提供我一个书面的回应谢谢主委谢谢主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
8893.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
8906.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
好謝謝吳立華委員的詢答下一位有請吳世耀委員現在主席有請吳諸葦也請我們國研院的蔡院長有請諸葦有請院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
8914.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
8935.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
副委員好大家辛苦很開心可以回到教文會跟大家來互相交換意見互相交流那我是今天第十位質詢的委員那前面的九位委員每一位都談到AI所以AI最夯AI是王道但是台灣要打造AI的智慧島 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
8937.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
8958.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
法治跟預算是缺一不可的我們要支持科研要推動科研國會到底是國家的神隊友還是絆腳石呢這麼多委員都關心AI我們就要來懇求這些委員要支持我們的AI新時代建設要支持全力在做的大南方的矽谷計畫下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
8960.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
8990.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
首先呢我非常谢谢从过去科技部到国科会我一直我质询了之前的吴政中主委五次我也质询了廖俊智中研院院长三次所以我过去从那时候你看质询的照片还戴着口罩从疫情的期间2021年开始我就一直的听到科技界学界产业界大家的倡议我们要有全国科技会议打底 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
8990.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9019.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
那国科会在中间整合更重要的是国家需要恢复科技顾问制度能够由上而下为我们的长远的科技发展的战略来定锚定方向所以我八次的质询我非常的感谢吴政中从部长到主委到政委在他手上我们让科技顾问制度恢复了那吴主委您也接棒接得非常好下一页我们是开了三次会议对不对 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9020.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9037.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
制度恢復以後所以召開三次的全國科技顧問會議而且是重要的國內外專家我們都來聆聽意見我觀察到三度的科技顧問會議的關鍵字也都在半導體也都在AI還有淨零科技 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9038.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9067.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
而因應地緣政治的變化以及因應台灣國家安全的需求我們對於AI的應用淨零排放的目標也要跟著調整所以說最新的今年這一次的科技顧問會議我們做了五個重要的結論都是告訴我們所有的公司部門一起來努力用AI驅動台灣下世代的發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9068.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9091.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
從資料的治理環境從國際夥伴的共同開發從確保國安跟營業秘密之下來進行AI資料的open data以及人才人才人才最後一個要基礎的設施就是算力的投資這都是我們科技顧問會議定矛定方向我再支持也不過了下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9092.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9113.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
也因此立法院通過了AI基本法我印象非常的深刻那時候我擔任黨編所以我們雖然在政治上有攻防但是對於AI的國家發展的這個立法我們跨黨派都支持但我覺得非常的遺憾支持了立法卻反對了預算下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9115.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9130.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
總預算如果不省我們的AI新十大建設大南方的矽谷計劃從AI的智慧應用到關鍵技術到數位的基盤建設都會整組壞掉了所以我說你法治過了AI基本法 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9132.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9149.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
但是預算不過不省 你就好事做半套 甚至是鬼走海寥寥所以現在在野黨委員放行的718億的新興計畫裡頭其實是放生了我們重中之重的AI新十大建設高達102億元 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9153.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9174.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
当然在野党说这周五可能让总预算可以复为审查我大大的期待本来总预算就是民生就是国家的科研就是台湾的需要但我今天一定要请您来说明也再一次对国会的喊话我们不要完成了AI基本法的立法但是对于AI新十大建设的预算却卡关 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9175.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9184.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
102億嘛 主委如果新興計畫只放行718億我們AI新十大計畫預算是沒有編在裡面的就是沒有辦法被放行嘛 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9185.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9207.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
下一页好我让您综合回复所以AI新十大建设政府民间都在拼国会要当神队友国会不要当绊脚石我下面mark出来就是我请这个国研院的院长在这里我们对于主权AI跟算力建设我们大方的做努力的做下一页 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9208.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9223.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
所以說我們有了金創26剛剛也有其他委員關心我們的超級電腦的排名要升了總體Top500的總算力台灣也大躍進了但是呢下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9225.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9240.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
我看到这个南科国网的云端算力中心正式启用而且不只政府民间我们结合一起来扩大公司协力成立了台湾算力联盟都在去年的12月12号 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9241.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9263.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
我相信您跟著賴清德總統在現場剪彩開幕的時候心中是百感交集所以我用一點時間讓主委您來喊話一下下一頁因為連台南沙崙智慧創新算力中心2029要上路的它的設計標用前瞻預算沒有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9264.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9287.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
他的建築標也就是未來的基礎建設也會卡在總預算沒審新興預算沒有過所以說這個委員們口頭都說支持支持支持可是預算不審不審不過大南方新矽谷就受挫了我們的國家級的算力中心就卡關了所以下一頁第二222天總預算沒有審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9292.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9308.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
因為今天委員都在說AI很重要還要求你們台灣要進入全球10名以內還要求我們的大南方矽谷不能再拖大家都嘴巴講的哇我多支持可是預算不省怎麼辦呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9309.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9325.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
下一页主委我让您好好的来论述一下我们恳求我们恳求口口声声支持AI建设的不分党派的立委支持我们的AI预算吧来主委时间交给您 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9326.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9355.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
謝謝吳委員其實AI的發展非常重要對台灣一個我們做AI硬體的這個大國來講更是意義非凡我們要強調我們的應用應用就需要算力那除了這個我們新的這個資料中心要在沙崙啟動這個建設之外我們在南科的那個資料中心去年12月開幕的現在建置5.1MW其實我們的目標還要更 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9355.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9372.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
更高我們這樣還要結合這個量子運算這個對台灣非常非常重要除此之外在沙倫我們其實還有一個太空中心要建設的火箭研發基地還有一個我們的國人院半導體中心要建設的 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9373.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9394.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
台南我们半导体研究的基地这个都对国家的发展都非常重要政策都要做但你巧妇难为五米之炊那我认为这些计划如果不按其启动的话我们会失去很多的人才因为人才不会等在那边等我们 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9395.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9418.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
大家都在搶人牌所以雖然規劃我們可以及早可是沒有啟動的話那失去的這個機會是難以想像的所以我很期待我們的國會各黨派如果週五能夠讓總預算復違我們就大家可以嚴格監督但是理性審查我也相信在場的委員們都支持AI發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9419.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9438.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
支持我们国家的智慧治理那么就反映在我们支持预算上我最后一个问题问你因为现在我们也在筹编明年度的概算了就去年编今年预算的时候好不容易我们在114年公司部门加起来的国家科研总经费首次突破一兆 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9440.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9448.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
我長期在教育文化委員會我真的覺得很難得我們拼到了然後呢近十年的以政府的科研預算成長56%那公司加起來國家總體的科研經費是總體成長93%才能破兆 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9455.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9476.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
那因為受了國民黨版的才化法的影響我們本來要編今年的預算是1800億的科技預算但是就被迫縮水因為排擠了嘛前地方政府分走了所以縮水了200億我在這裡問您我們現在在概算明年的預算是不是還能編出什麼樣子的數字呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9477.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9499.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
我們還是期望能夠再成長那目前是1850億左右目前有1850億但是這是概算嘛未來還要主計總數各部會那也很擔心持續的被其他的立法院如果再通過更多的乾坑法案我們的預算又被排擠所以我相信我今天的質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9500.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9525.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
我认为AI从法制面谢谢立法院我们完成了难得的AI基本法但是在预算上请大家就全力支持AI新十大建设而且大南方的矽谷计划这就是我们院长在这里辛苦了我们也结合民间成立了算力联盟其实产业界都在看学术界都在等待 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9526.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9553.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
立法院真的要當台灣AI發展的神隊友好我們一起加油好嗎辛苦了謝謝好謝謝我們下一位巡打的委員吳佩玉委員謝謝主席我請國科會吳承文主委有請主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9558.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9586.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
主委好上一位吳斯利亞委員提到說明年的國科會的預算那我在這裡要同樣表達我們非常支持我們的科研預算要持續的成長那我們也要拜託國科會可以多跟立法院裡面不同黨派的委員溝通當大家都在討論說我們的科研業務應該要做得更好做得更多的時候我們同樣要給予預算的支持那因為今年是迎來台灣75年以來最少降雨 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9587.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9607.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
那麼所以說整個國家對於水的節水跟調度不再關注那同時國人也在關心那這個水減少會不會影響到我們科學園區的用水那麼因為我們看到的現在水庫的量以我們新竹以南的水庫流量來說也已經甚至是低於我們2021年當時 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9609.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9633.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
遭遇到的是百年大旱那這幾天還好下雨所以我們水庫的水有進帳我們新竹的寶山水庫蓄水量現在回升到31%那麼寶山二水庫也是回升到34%那麼新竹科學園區又是我們國家科學園區裡面重中之重大家就很擔心說這個目前我們這個供水量有沒有影響到產業的使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9634.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9661.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
目前的狀況就算穩定下來我們在上個禮拜其實還蠻擔心的那經過這幾天的降雨就算有緩解了再加上說政府過去幾年在這個珍珠川計畫我們在這個聯同館的建置那以及我們未雨綢繆我們現在在新竹的海淡廠的建設台南的海淡廠的建設都如火如土在進行當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9662.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9669.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
所以今年如果我們渡過這個難關之後明年就會比較沒有這樣的這個疑慮的對沒錯因為我注意到包括我們國科會我們內政部我們水利署其實對於這個用水特別是我們用水也要來可以支持產業因為台灣半導體產業全世界都是關係著命脈全世界在關心我們台灣的一條水管有沒有辦法來支援產業 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9687.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9713.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
所以說這個我們其實這幾年都一直在做相關的韌性的供水那麼我們現在在做這些措施包括剛剛講到的我們珍珠串計畫這個其實就是說我們水庫之間要可以互相的調度這個我們以我們跟新竹科學園區最相關的就是桃園新竹這一段的水庫調度來講在這一次光是調度的成果就有3.9億噸 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9715.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
9732.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
那麼這相當於是一座石門水庫的量那如果以全國來說我們這次調度是8.1噸相當於是四座的石門水庫我剛剛還忘了講還有再生水我們跟地方政府各地的地方政府結合我們再生水的使用量已經現在達到四成了 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
9733.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
9752.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
再生水的使用量有達到40%再生水然後我們有淡海廠等等這些都是過去持續在做的所以我要講的是說我們要支持我們台灣的科技我們也要支持我們半導體的產業那麼供水其實是很重要的那這個是平常就要來投入平常就要來做像我們剛剛講到這個真初創計畫它其實是2017年開始投入的前瞻基礎建設計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
9760.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
9775.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
這是前瞻建設那麼當年在立法院也是引起很大的風波很大的爭議啊當時在野黨一再的擋這一筆前瞻建設的預算甚至丟水球丟麵粉但是如果我們當年沒有做這個珍珠串計畫的話哇現在對於產業真的會有很大的影響所以說這個我們立法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
9782.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
9797.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
要多加的來支持那真的就是拜託國科會可以多多的跟國人說明多多的跟立法院來說明那除了這個產業用水之外接下來我要關心的是我們台美太空的援助法案這個因為上個週五我們蕭美琴副總統她有發一個祝賀文她祝賀NASA的阿提米茲2號順利升空那這個是NASA相隔53年之後第二次我們有火箭載人飛往月球 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
9810.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
9832.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
那麼我們很關切這個美國的太空發展因為台美的太空合作對於台灣的太空發展來說至關重要嘛這個3月通過了一個美國跨黨派的參議員所通過的推動的台美太空援助法案這個是委員會審議通過還要有院會但是2月的時候美國的眾議院也納入了NASA重新授權法案 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
9833.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
9844.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
可不可以請教一下這個剛講的這個台美太空援助法案簡稱就是TASA法案對我們台灣台美的這個雙方在太空領域的合作有什麼樣的突破 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
9846.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
9874.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
這個突破是非常大的因為過去我們並不被承認是一個美國合作的國家所以以往我們太空中心是無法直接跟NASA來洽談任何的合作但是透過美國國會現在的支持我們已經確定通過這個法案以後我們的國家太空中心可以跟美國的太空總署可以進行直接的合作我們非常感謝美國政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
9876.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
9884.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
對 這個是 這個因為過去是有一個一中的這個原則之下所以說會有一些限制但是這次美國參議員他們主動提出這個法案這個推動的參議員許密特她這樣子說 她說因為太空已經是保障國家安全跟加強海外聯盟的關鍵 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
9895.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
9900.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
那麼台灣的地理位置對美國的國防跟區域安全都是至關重要所以他們也希望美國跟台灣在太空領域要有專業的合作這個不只是維護我們國際的夥伴關係更是共同抵禦中國的惡意影響所以這個不只是在科技上面對安全也是非常的重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
9918.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
9941.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
那我們很樂見看到這一個突破那接下來我要花很短的時間就是要來提醒主委是我們也看到國內太空領域也因為有跟美國的合作跟日本也有交流有所交流我們成長非常的快速那隨著我們的逐漸發展呢這個現有的太空發展法因為它是基本法形式的架構性立法 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
9941.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
9968.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
它有可能會開始有所不足以日本為例日本也是逐漸的擴充他們太空的法治範圍2006年的時候日本有宇宙基本法2016年的時候他們有宇宙二法宇宙活動法跟衛星遙測法2021年的時候日本訂定了宇宙資源法那麼在台灣我看到學界像例如說像清大的這個黃旭正教授也都在討論說隨著我們太空台灣的太空 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
9970.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
9993.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
技術也開始移轉現在我們太空的商業領域也相當的發達那這個可能在所有權在它的保險在它的融資例如說軌道活動的範圍規範等等都可能會需要更進一步法制上的完備所以就開始有討論說我們的太空發展法它是不是需要不定是修母法也許是子法是不是需要逐漸的來擴充這個部分主委你有沒有來關注到 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
9998.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10016.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
謝謝吳委員的提議我想我蠻認同這個方向因為現在國際跟台灣要合作的機會越來越大了我們的太空產業也積極在發展當中所以我會請我們太空中心來結合我們相關的學界 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10018.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10046.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
以及這個其他的這個部會我們一起來討論看看是不是有必要我們也來關注這個議題看看要不要發展這些執法是 我想學界討論相當熱絡那產業界其實也有一些表達在務實層面可能你們也要去收集例如說我們現在太空發展法17條就是在訂定這個如果有損害賠償責任的時候這個最高限額是新台幣50億元可是問題是我們的衛星這個主任好明知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10046.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10064.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
就是差異很大 你有立方衛星啊 你有中大型衛星 這成本從兩三千萬的到這個幾十億的也都有 結果保險的理賠金額竟然沒有分成的標準等等的 也要麻煩你們跟學界跟產業界都來多方的收集意見 然後一起來討論好嗎好 謝謝吳委員好 謝謝主委 謝謝謝謝吳佩儀委員質詢 官員請回座 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10076.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10077.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
有請羅廷偉委員質詢謝謝主席有請吳主委有請吳主委謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10097.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10116.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
主委好首先幾個問題先跟主委請教一下我想現在我們今天書面報告也特別寫到推動全民智慧生活圈善用我國在全球半導體及資通訊產業的優勢將AI從尖端科技的一個領域當中有效轉化普及 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10117.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10135.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
國民生活息息相關的一個面向促進整個科技驅動社會的一個全面進步交通醫療參儲製造為優先的一個示範生活領域先請問一下主委這四個領域的具體AI服務項目是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10136.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10157.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
譬如說我昨天才找我們的交通部跟經濟部一起來討論因為我們要推動智慧交通的話就是中央部會跟地方政府要一起合作在智慧化的十字路口的監控避免行人在路口因為駕駛的不小心 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10158.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10180.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
那行人因為在斑馬線上有這個優先權他就很放心的也不會去注意到可能有一些車輛會撞過來這種東西如果有AI的監控那主動的警告那也許就可以避免這種不必要的這種傷亡的事情具體可以實際在運用在交通上的部分上大概有沒有一個期程 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10181.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10201.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
騎乘啊我們希望今年就可以開始因為智慧交通我們談論已經很久了那細節有一部分已經有在落實但是能不能再廣泛的能夠有新的一個所謂的智慧交通運用在交通上我剛剛講就是新的就是因為入口的監控的影像所以我需要騎乘 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10202.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10226.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
起程是我們今年才要啟動啟動是實際去運用還是啟動?實際運用,不是研發啟動規劃研發我就擔心了啦不是不是那因為台中我們製造業也是非常非常的蓬勃那製造業的一個AI部分這個部分的運用呢可不可以跟我們說一下抱歉那個委員再問一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10227.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10249.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
我說製造業在台中蓬勃發展台中啊對對對我們這個部分也很關切那AI的運用能夠幫助製造業的部分能不能幫我們說一下在製造業我們一直談就是智慧製造但是過去在智慧製造其實不會談到說我們要用AI用雲端的服務因為製造業通常它的資料都非常的寶貴 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10250.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10273.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
但是未来我们发展的方向是希望说我们即使连制造业我们都希望能够发展AI的模型因为晓得这个公司他没有办法自己去发展模型自己去发展智慧制造的云端服务的系统所以他要仰赖我们要做主权AI确保这个资料的安全性那他自己在训练他的这个优化的模型的时候他的资料不必送出来 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10274.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10293.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
這個其實我們之前也談論過就是希望說你們的這個AI部分還是要跟產業多溝通產業的需求嘛像我們看到有些認為資料庫非常的一個謹慎他可能就不希望運用雲端的部分那小的他沒有辦法建置這樣子一個大型成本的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10293.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10305.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
他可能就會覺得他先使用雲端他沒有關係所以我覺得中小企業跟大型企業有一些分門別列為他們來做一個客製化這部分能不能在未來能夠一起納入呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10307.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10326.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
有 這個策略我們其實已經存在了那今年在那個行政院科技顧問會其實也有這樣的一個決議其中的一項就是要幫這些中小型的企業來打造來打造AI主權AI的模型來協助他們把這個供應鏈把它串起來好 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10327.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10354.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
當然我們剛剛也有委員提到AI部分目前的一個語料非常的堪憂但是我們對你有信心也希望這個部分能夠再加強那趕緊能夠運用在這個製造業上但是你剛剛說目前還在研發當中對不對我是說幫助製造業的部分製造業的部分是那個主權AI的模型還要建立但是這個模型就是各行各業的這個模型都需要對啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10355.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10367.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
包含金融现在已经在做了就是金管会那什么时候制造业可以帮忙那制造业也是一样各行各业其实需求都不一样我知道所以你在建制当中嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10368.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10392.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
對但是我們希望預算我知道嘛但是你要給我一個期程你要有信心啊你有信心我們給你預算才可以啊不要說我給了錢結果你們做不到嘛因為我一直在講說你要跟產業來做一個溝通協調我認為其實預算的審核啊這就是立法委員最神聖的一個我們該有的一個任務但這也是我們跟你談判的籌碼 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10393.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10412.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
你要怎麼樣讓產業更好要怎麼樣讓產業能夠得到這個預算直接的回饋這你要答應我我才會想想我下一步要怎麼做像我們在這個大健康領域健康照護的部分我們去年跟衛福部就啟動了現在效果很好我知道那我們今年要啟動就是智慧交通 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10413.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10421.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
那希望智慧制造如果預算通過的話我們今天希望也可以開始啟動那後面你能夠啟動機場跟產業再繼續溝通呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10425.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10452.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
我剛說產業的需求啊我們跟產業的溝通其實隨時都在進行好那國會負責的是園區的產業經濟部負責的是所有其他產業我們是合作合作在進行就是橫向聯繫啦對對對這個部分那另外要跟你請教的就是你有一個啊點亮全民科學火花我們提升這個探究的這個實作體驗嘛也就是我們科普列車串聯全島嘛對不對我一直在講嘛啊來到台中嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10453.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10478.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
那台中還有科博館嘛那是不是能夠多辦幾場嘛台中這個部分呢你還沒有給我台中我們去年還特別優待都加了我說去年啊去年是去年啊今年是今年啊今年今年我們會在烏日新烏日站還有嗎要不要加可是我們的預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10482.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10493.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
要加的話你不是剛剛說希望我幫你預算你現在不用給我一些幫忙我幫你你幫我啊你幫我是幫我們台中市不是幫我個人我不會去參加喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10496.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10519.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
我們盡量遵節預算多辦一場好了我們是希望說啦其實有時候不只是多場次啦孩子能夠多受惠的人數能夠增加也是我們的考量因為畢竟你的東西提供的蠻不錯的但是我們每次看人數有限當然人數變多的時候有可能會影響到品質我都知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10520.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10541.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
那是不是能夠兼具到這樣子的一個平衡點這是我今天要拜託的 好不好好 謝謝會員再來諸位 國科會自2022年一直從科技部改制以來針對專題研究的計畫審查制度進行調整強調降低主持人過往績效的一個配分提高研究計畫內容的一個重要性 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10542.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10568.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
我們現在期望促進學術創新並提升年輕學者的一個競爭機會此一政策方向是利益良善但是本席關切的是制度調整以後是否已經實質轉化為研究績效跟審查公平性的一個提升而非只是制度的一個改變而已改制前後新進主持人啊他的一個申請通過率有沒有提升 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10570.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10590.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
你說申請通過率啊通過率跟這個無關通過率是依照我們的預算我們現在也關心就是新晉主持的他五年內的部分新晉主持的新晉的研發人員他們提了這個計畫通過率是比較高的我們是有特別優待 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10593.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
10618.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
新進的話大概80%當然不可能全部你隨便納錢也會通過當然啊 也要看它有沒有意義嘛那有沒有你過往提高嘛我這是很高啦 因為一般的即使很厲害的那個有經驗的也才不過六成左右而已啦那新進人員我們是保障他是比較可以那你有感受到首次的申請者啦這個核定的比例是否有顯著的成長 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
10620.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
10644.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
合併的比例就首次的申請是首次我現在講的首次就新進的他大概是八成左右因為他如果沒有他如果寫的計畫都不好要確捏要確捏確確的意思就是要確定你的數據要確定啊要確捏不要隨便因應我欸八成對我這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
10648.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
10653.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
改之後的一個資深研究者跟中生代的一個學者計劃通過率的情形呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
10655.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
10680.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
改造後改制後改制後不是改造改制後我們整個改制中生代的跟資深的他們的計劃通過率的執行他的通過率執行為何現在沒有這樣區分因為我們現在所謂的我們希望能夠改善改善就是說改善新進的但是我也要關注一下資深跟中生代的對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
10682.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
10711.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
应该计划通过率这个比例应该没有什么改变没有什么改变因为我觉得资深的学者通常拥有较多的一个研究资源过去通过率的一个自然当然会比较高但在改制后我们希望国科会调整的配分的一个权重能够理应让年轻的学者通过率能够提高然而这个是否导致对中生代学者处境会不会有一些相对不利这个我们要关切 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
10712.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
10738.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
好這個我們會關切那其實這一部分的這個包含申請計劃或申請獎勵補助等等我們是各個學門我們會一起來討論怎麼樣去做改善並不是我們一廂情願就把制度改了對啊我們當然要照顧新生代啦但是也要注意那個平衡那我想那你剛剛說的這些是否存在學門之間的一個差異 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
10740.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
10764.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
有可能會有學門之間的差異所以國科會建立定期的一個檢視評估制度然後確保各學門審查標準以及資源的配置公平性我認為這很重要這我也同意所以我們會持續來關注這個我想整個制度的一個調整後計劃平均產出是否提升論文的品質或者是記轉專利的結果是否具體量化可以讓我們來檢視一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
10766.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
10793.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
我们当然是希望像委员讲的希望他计划的成果成果它的价值它的效益可以提升这个是我们的目标对啦那是目标啦我现在是想说制度调整以后啦整个计划平均的产出然后还有技术移转专利成果有没有目前的量化资料可以让我们参考一下量化资料可以给委员可以你累了你累了都正常一个题目要讲两次喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
10794.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
10821.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
國科會在這個學門之間資源配置的一個差異方法方面是否已經建立了長期的追蹤跟成效的評估機制我們希望能夠這樣子來掌握不同領域的一個計畫對於學術跟社會實質的一個影響那最後我要講的就是說請問主委國科會是否掌握近五年來女性主持人申請跟通過率的一個變化是否已經達到性別的平衡 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
10823.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
10852.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
我們應該都有掌握有嗎平衡好讓你回答大概都在一個跟委員報告女性主持人的計畫申請率通過率我們都有在關注那這幾年大概都沒有忽高忽低都在一個平衡的狀態好我掌握的部分目前都有相對的一個平衡但是我想跟主委探討的是女性計畫主持人她有一個多重角色家庭主婦媽媽上班族請問這些多重角色是否會影響她的通過率 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
10853.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
10877.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
不會 其實我對女性有特別優待的可以說一下嗎這我們各學門都有共識如果是在計畫的邊緣也是會優先通過女性計畫主持人的計畫那其他的當然就是照同儕審查我想針對女性計畫的主持人她們在生育的期間提供的一個支持我認為這不是優待 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
10878.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
10904.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
這個是一個知識他們在這個部分上有女性的專案計畫生育計畫這些措施我想請問一下主委當女性主持人她在生產計畫延長的一個計分年限後退回到一般性計畫有沒有辦法銜接上你們有沒有去了解從生育計畫延長計分的年限退回到一般 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
10905.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
10924.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
我們有氣氛嗎他不可能一直都在生嘛他會回歸到一般計劃他的銜接上有沒有困難跟其他女性的一般性的計劃通過率是否一樣不要小看這個產後有什麼產後還有可能有憂鬱的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
10926.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
10946.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
產後也要支持你說計劃審查再打分數這個他原本我們現在不是有關心他生產的時候他的計劃有可能會延後嗎那我們給予一些支持的一些方案了嘛對不對那他回歸到一般的一般性計劃了他沒有要生了那產後的一個支持呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
10947.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
10974.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
我們對女性計畫主持人的生育的支援計畫是從她懷孕到小孩3歲這段期間所以這個部分上有沒有去了解她在這個產後以後0到3歲她的一般性的計畫通過率然後還有她的支持給予幫助以後她的通過率如何這個我們沒有特別去注意啦我今天會提到這個啦不好意思 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
10976.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
10995.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
比較龜毛啦但是我認為有必要性我關心的是如果國科會沒有這樣的統計數據就單純看大面相會發現男性跟女性的計畫主持人通過率是差不多的男性憂鬱的現在也蠻多的欸女性啊你說什麼男性也會有憂鬱的男性憂鬱喔也會有好 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
10997.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11014.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
好 我們一起加油照顧小孩照顧小孩是兩個都會有用但是我發現還是女生心事比較細膩我們要多給予一些關心但這方面我要講的是男性跟女性的計畫主持人通過率是差不多但這 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11015.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11033.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
這其實會掩蓋了一些生育對女性主持人她的科研的軌跡失職的影響也無法檢驗國科會的支持措施是否真正改善因生育中斷科研所造成的結構性處境所以我認為需要這樣子的一個數據 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11035.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11064.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
謝謝委員這一點我們以前沒有特別注意不過既然委員有提出來我覺得我們可以來研議一下所以最後我要講的是女性計畫主持人在生產後有沒有辦法銜接上一般性計畫剛剛你說0到3歲嘛對 她有沒有辦法銜接後續的追蹤是不是意味著國科會應該要既有的措施計畫再稍微修正一下或者在既有的措施外再能夠再多設計一些提出新的支持方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11064.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11075.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
政策工具這個部分您覺得重不重要好那重要了我想謝謝委員的建議我們會把它納入好我最後30秒主委3月30日新聞報導 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11078.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11102.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
台灣高教啊 心血斷層比日韓嚴重我想今天很多的委員也有人在關心整體30到39歲的青壯年教師佔比明顯低於日韓顯示台灣高教心血斷層的一個程度比周邊國家更嚴重我們應該要好好的去認定這個問題有沒有一個相關的方法所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11103.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11120.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
今天我還有一個這樣的質詢但是時間已經有點多了那我想我希望說你應該有什麼樣的方式來因應我們國家人才被挖走的可能然後現在現在又還有人才不足的一個問題會後是不是能夠提供一些資料給我一些具體的方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11121.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11148.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
教師的部分我們會跟教育部一起合作來看看有沒有改善的方法不過現在人才斷層的確非常嚴重這個我同意這個委員的講法好我們應該關注是好我們一起加油謝謝謝謝謝謝委員好謝謝羅廷委員質詢歡迎請回座接下來有請翁曉琳委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11159.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11164.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
好謝謝主席我們首先有請那個國會主委請吳主委好有請主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11173.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11188.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
各位好我想首先要請問您的就是這個有關於國內大學每年得到的國科會研究計畫補助經費的金額還有國科會各個處事各年度核准金額的比例等等這些統計數據是機密嗎像這些統計數據是機密嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11196.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11218.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
應該我們網站上有這些基本資料對嘛他應該都是公開的這個資料對不對是那麼所以呢本席呢在3月17號就向國科會所資希望國科會能夠提供近5年來國內12所頂尖大學包含台城清教等等這些學校裡面每年得到的國科會專題計畫的補助經費的統計數據可是為什麼到了今天4月8號過了20幾天 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11225.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11247.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
本席還是沒有得到你們辦公室你們國科會給我的相關的資訊主委知道這件事情嗎不知道所以代表說你們下面的同仁是有欺上瞞上的這個情況嗎應該不是吧應該是行政院 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11248.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11268.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
我也不是要甩鍋給行政院就是說我們那個回復委員的這些資料現在是規定必須要經過行政院這樣所以你要一開始說你不知道說我有所知然後現在你又說是現在我要的這份資料是在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11271.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11284.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
不是在國和會所以是在哪裡我們已經報給行政院報給行政院所以剛剛主委還在講說這個資料它是公開的資料它不涉及機密吧連這樣子的一個所知 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11286.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11311.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
這個國科會主委都還要上層行政院請行政院院長核試這不是很可笑的一件事情嗎這個真的讓我都質疑就是吳主委您還能夠有一點獨立思考判斷能力嗎您現在是不是事事都要請示院長要院長核准了之後你才能夠去做決策是這樣嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11313.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11325.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
有些規定我必須要遵守這是什麼規定是定在哪個地方行政院院長的一句話就是規定喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11326.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11343.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
他就是命令喔所以他對於你的行政指導影響很強嘛那你作為一個國科會的主委你竟然連一點這樣子的一個獨立判斷的能力都沒有真的讓本席感到非常非常的驚訝吳主委您曾經是我非常尊敬的清華大學的副校長 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11345.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11367.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
主委竟然連本席所要求的這樣的一個根本不算是公開機密的所知你都還可以壓在你們國客會然後上層行政院然後行政院院長他不同意你就一直壓在那邊那我就在懷疑說現在國客會是有多少的相關的辦法政策主委你根本沒有決策的能力啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11368.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11390.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
我有在國會的主政的項目上當然是我要負責啦可是行政論理我一定要遵守所以本席今天要求你立刻要提供給我相關的資料你也同樣是不可以給我是嗎今天在這個質詢台上面我接下來我還有另外一個所值 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11391.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11403.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
我可以提供但是我按照目前的規定我必須要經過行政院總之我現在曉得了就是主委您今天的這樣的發言就讓我認為你就是一個不能夠自己做主 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11407.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11425.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
只能够事事听从上面长官的命令然后等候上级指示的一个木偶人本席已经了解您的态度了而且本席根本压根认为你就是不敢告诉我们现在到底这个12所顶尖国立大学里面到底拿了多少的专题就计划 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11426.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11451.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
这里面是不是可能有特别图利某些大学本席已经听到非常多来自于学界的教授们大家非常惊讶这两年通过的比率非常之低但是本席有看到发现你们的研究补助经费基本上并没有缩减那就代表说非常有可能这些计划经费是图利了哪些学校 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11453.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11473.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
如果没有的话你就应该要公开的迅速的提供给本席否则本席基本上我就会有这样的疑虑我觉得这些就是你现在国科会的问题你事事都要请示这个行政院卓中泰你根本不敢自己去做决定好那接下来本席要讲的就是说 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11474.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11497.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
大家一直在质疑啊就一直在在说现在台湾的基础科学研究经费基本上是远比韩国日本还有乃至于像是瑞士美国的这些国家有明显的不足那么吴主委您在去年二月的时候你也很感慨的说台湾的投入科研数十年却没有 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11498.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11499.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
本席基本上是暗蓝认同的 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11523.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11537.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
所谓巧妇难为五米之炊今天台湾的大学虽然说不是说没有经费做研究但是普遍的问题就是我们的研究经费不足特别是基础科学研究的经费 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11539.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11559.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
本心很在意的就说我们台湾我们政府是不是真正提供了一个足够可以让基础研究长成为世界级影响力的肥沃的土壤我们来看看的根据你国科会在去年10月底所公布的13年的全国科技动态调查 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
11560.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
11574.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
2024年台湾的公司部门的研发经费突破了一兆台币这个数字看起来很亮眼可是呢我们再看看如果把这个一兆的这个经费你拆开成为几个部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
11576.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
11598.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
我们发现几乎是两个世界这一兆经费里面14%是来自于政府部门还有公部门的投资其他的16%基本上就是民间私部门企业的技术开发而且这些民间企业的这个科研经费主要是投资在半导体的制程的精进以及与优化 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
11599.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
11621.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
那么对于这个台湾的基础投资对于台湾的基础研究的经费整体而言他投资的比例大概只有7.7%大概是在800大概就809亿左右所以呢事实上就是整个台湾的这个研究经费他挹注在基础科学研究的 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
11622.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
11643.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
项目是非常非常低的在整个一兆的科研经费里面只有800亿左右是投入在科学研究经费里面那么所以呢我们发现就看起来台湾好像是个研发大国但是实际上更像是个应用科技的巨人基础科学研究的侏儒所以我想请教 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
11645.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
11666.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
主委就是我國115年度的科研經費大概是1600億左右請問這1600億的科研預算當中有多少的比例是投資在基礎研究經費你說整個1600億裡面有多少的比例這個數字我等一下請同仁查一下基礎研究 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
11672.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
11689.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
国科会的部分我们114年是408亿只有408亿114年去年今年我们成长一点本来要更高一点是多少一点 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
11690.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
11715.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
427億就是因為我們財政收支方法使得我們今年的預算被迫要從1800億降到1600億所以剛剛委員提的議題其實就是我們預算的問題主委你不要再牽拖我們從去年到今年今年當然預算還沒有審去年的預算我們有上你們國會會任何一毛錢的預算嗎今年就是還沒有審 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
11716.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
11731.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
所以今年还没有审我现在讲是去年是前年的事情你不要再讲说是今年的预算今年的预算确实是没有审但是你们还是可以去执行而且按照预算法的规定新增的没有办法你超出的怎么可以执行呢我们新增的计划我们来看看啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
11734.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
11759.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
你们新兴计划我们现在立法院已经通过了三十几项计划委员如果支持你告诉我就说你们到底现在计划是多少你如果支持基础研究就赶快通过预算我们明年还要再增加明年会我们今年本来变一千八百元好了了解了所以主委您的意思说现在所有基础研究经费全部都是靠新兴计划吗你们在年度的预算里面你们没走吗既有的计划 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
11761.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
11772.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
你们年度的预算计划本来就有而这个计划你们就可以去执行所以你今天执行不能超出原来的额度啊执行不能超出原来额度啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
11773.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
11779.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
所以你要新興計畫我們也通過新興計畫問題是卓榮泰他有給嗎他不給我們現在的問題是說立法院通過新興計畫可是卓榮泰他不發給委員你是矛盾的你要支持基礎研究就要通過我們的預算好不好就這樣子我去年就通過我現在要求你們要增編要增編 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
11798.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
11800.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
主委您今天這樣子嗆立法委員我覺得是非常不對的 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
11819.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
11833.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
我們所要求的所有資料都不給你還有什麼臉好意思在這裡講而且你根本就是亂扯我們去年的一百一十四年度的你一方面嗆我嘛來來來兩邊先停一下休息一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
11841.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
11851.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
五秒五秒我也是两边平心静气我们讨论事情也希望大家一方面讲基础研究重要对不好意思我正在发言 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
11856.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
11872.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
我想諮詢議題有問有答是固然重要但是我們希望平心靜氣那不要用激烈的言語過當的態度來面對那也希望兩邊呢能夠繼續平心靜氣的來討論我們繼續 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
11877.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
11903.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
好我先要講就是我也不要再浪費多的時間我就請主委你要提供給我115年度科研經費裡面大概有多少的比例是投資在基礎科學研究有多少比例是在應用科技及技術發展的部分金額比例是多少我希望國科會兩週之內就給本席一個報告請問我們主席是不是可以同意要求國科會要提供這份報告同時給我們所有的委員參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
11906.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
11925.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
好 主委如果在剛剛所提到的這個無關於任何機密的情況之下那本來就應該擁有相關的資料應該兩個禮拜可以完成吧沒問題可以嗎沒問題啊好 會後麻煩再提供給所有的委員一份好不好好 包含給翁小林委員翁小林委員然後另外我最後要講一句話 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
11926.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
11949.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
因為曾經得到過諾貝爾生理醫學獎的日本東京工業大學教授大禹兩點曾經說過要想讓科學有利於社會可能需要一百年這樣的名言本席希望你國科會能夠更重視台灣基礎科學的研究該通過計畫就要通過該病例就要編列不要在那裡東扯西扯以上好我們謝謝翁委員巡打 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
11957.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
11974.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
是不是跟委員爭取一下我們休息五分鐘好 那給你喝個水好 我們下一位委員楊瓊英委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
11985.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
11995.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
謝謝主席 陽學發言再邀請部長 诶 主委主委 有請主委那不好意思 我補充一下我們下一位委員讓他休息一下 五分鐘謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
11999.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12018.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
總統上任之後他有宣示每一年要編列新台幣300億那就是大概是每年10億的美金的預算要推動我們在去年底通過的人工智慧法那其中最重要的就是推動人工智慧資料中心跟相關的發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12019.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12044.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
政府打算也要加強在AI資料的中心的基礎建設大幅提升了整個運算的一個能力所以當然我們都希望將台灣打造成AI之島各國也都是在搶這個算力也都是在建置這個資料中心所以本席首先要請問主委也就是我國的基礎建設是否 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12045.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12056.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
我們現在跟得上世界的角度嗎那同時我們國家級的算力平台你們預計要怎麼做未來你的目標是如何請做說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12057.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12081.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
我們持續在建設當中就是去年底12月的時候我們在南科也建設了一個新的資料中心大概5.1MW的這個規模那但是我們分年編列預算是持續要增加那今年本來要啟動的是在沙崙沙崙的這個國科會的基地我們要建一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12083.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12106.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
新的這個資料中心那也希望說那個預算能夠所以本先生要請教我們就是階段性的在不見那同時呢我們也希望跟世界的腳步來接軌那最重要的我們自己要建構一個什麼一定有你成長的一個目標那你自己設定你未來的成長目標是什麼呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12107.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12135.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
成長目標當然是要逐步進到這個世界領先國好 就這一句要逐步進到跟世界來接軌所以本集我們繼續討論那面對了AI時代的來臨很多的企業大概都陷入在焦慮當中我到底該不該導入AI那我要怎麼樣去評估這個風險中小企業裡頭是我們台灣非常非常重要的經濟命脈跟根基 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12136.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12161.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
所以呢當個人到企業都在擁抱AI的時代那每個人都在學習相關的應用的這個技能學校端學生也都在學校也在教學生怎麼去做那但是我們的企業導入AI的速度似乎似乎他的速度是落後的是落後的那這個主委本席要讚許你一句話 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12162.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12188.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
因为你在接受媒体专访的时候你曾经提到大家以为这个AI新十大建设是为了AI其实我们更想要帮助台湾的传统产业这一句话我给你赞许因为在中部地区我们整个传统产业的根基几乎90%以上都在我们的中部地区尤其在台中 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12189.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12218.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
不管是我們的手工具機械工具機零組件我們的扣件我們的木工機我們的腳踏車等等等都是在我們的中部地區也為國家跟世界去接軌也幫助了國家很多的貢獻跟就業率所以你講的這一句話本席要請教國科會你未來你現在要怎麼樣協助我們的中小企業讓AI可以進入到 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12220.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12235.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
傳統產業的這個領域請做說明我們現在正跟經濟部在合作希望協助我們的設備業者材料業者能夠進到我們高科技的供應鏈不是只進到傳統產業的供應鏈高科技的供應鏈因為台灣的高科技現在很強 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12236.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12262.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
那高科技需要非常強大的這個設備跟材料的業者我們正在協助協助他們導入AI導入AI可以跟高科技產業的需求端很緊密的結合在一起不需要再說增加大量人力才有辦法去拓展他的市場這一點我們會努力在進行AI端的工具這非常的重要像新加坡等很多的其他國家由政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12262.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12282.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
去做一個規範這個AI的工具讓所有的產業它可以節省八成以上的這個成本本期要跟你討論的就是站在你國會的立場因為我長期在經濟委員會我們特別也跟經濟部不管在硬體的部分在傳統產業的部分在ESG的這個部分我們全部導入 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12285.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12314.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
这也就是在我们传统产业我要向所有的业者给予最高的敬意跟肯定跟感谢他们努力的在做但是只有他们个人绝对是达不到必须要政府全力的来协助经济部努力在做这一块我本行希望在您说的这一句话我给你赞许不是只有是为了AI而是更想帮助的是台湾的传统产业我们这一句话一定要落实到 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12315.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12336.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
對不對是我們就是往這個方向在走所以經濟部跟國會是在合作我們編預算所以本席剛剛也特別說到其他的國家有怎麼樣的 AI 工具去協助他們節省他們的這個成本這一個部分我也希望盡快可以看到成效這是一個很重要的最後一個議題我們人力的問題AI 亂財來的時候我們要延續創新動能驅動了產業的一個成長優質人才 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12345.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12370.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
所以這是全球競爭的一個目標非常重要的這個目標那但是呢台灣對於高科技高階的人才的需求當然一直在加溫一直需求喔那所以在這種情況之下您七月份要算談去美東十月份說要去美西喔那當然要跨部會的喔也就是經濟部教育部你國科會還有這個工研院都一起來出訪 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12371.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12381.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
那在这种情况聚焦在什么在AI的人才那毕竟台湾对于AI人才的需求它是强烈的要求我们也希望透过这样子 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12401.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12428.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
我們的人才會不會被人家挖走這也是非常重要的一個課題所以本席要請教的是說除了我們攬財國際的人才之外那麼我們對於我國的長期人才的一個培育機制我們到底是什麼你要留下流財的政策你的量化的KPI又是什麼請說說明報告委員剛剛委員提的事實上是國發會不是國科會 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12429.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12450.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
對 政府一起啊 因為你國科委相關也必須啊 也都要關心啊國科委我們負責的是學術研發的對 對 對 因為這個是一個基礎嘛我們現在支持你支持就好 所以本期要請教的也就是我們的流財政策 你的量化的KPI是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12454.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
12482.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
因为你现在导入AI嘛那这些也是人才的部分也要嘛是人才国科会主政的部分我们是支持学术研究机构培养未来需要的人才当然因为政府的横向必须要联系啊是但是我们的主政的这个范围也会跟经济部国发会经济部国发会教育部教育部都会都会合作都会嘛还有你国科会嘛对国会负责研发这样子 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
12484.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
12500.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
所以這個非常的重要我們也有國際合作幫我們的人才留住那把國外的人才也可以攬進來這樣我們才可以相輔相成一定要朝這個方向來加油謝謝我們謝謝楊委員的質詢謝謝主委我們現在休息五分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
12513.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
12514.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
這裏有個大廈,大廈的大廈 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
12539.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
12548.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
讓很多人的職業收入減少我只是 職業收入減少然後 職業收入減少就是讓職業收入減少讓職業收入減少讓職業收入減少讓職業收入減少 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
12818.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
12844.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
好 現在繼續開會我們下一位有請葉遠之委員來做詢答主席好 麻煩請主委 謝謝有請主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
12851.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
12879.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
主委 主委喝口水 平心靜氣一下我想問一下現在這個中東戰事的關係讓大家開始擔憂我們國家能源的韌性什麼叫韌性 韌性應該就是說當國家面臨到特定的危機的時候應該有很強大的抵禦的能力這又有賴於超前部署跟及早的規劃但是現在台灣的能源韌性非常差你看中東一發生戰事因為過去就是非常仰賴天然氣 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
12880.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
12904.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
所以影響到天然氣的進口我們的政府大量去搶現貨然後增加了幾百億的錢去做這個事情然後讓大家很擔憂那更不用講其他的問題了我今天就Focus在能源因為我看到國科會也訂定了一個淨零科技的創新方案是2026年到2030年是四年編的五百億沒錯吧好像之前才 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
12905.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
12933.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
那個主委也才宣布等一下我請主委來講一下你這個創新方案的內容但我想要先問一件事情因為我們國家其實很多單位都在做淨零碳盤的研究比如說中研院中研院它也有一個規劃它也是在說要針對比如說地熱生殖能海洋能高效太陽光電什麼去碳燃氫這些去做研究然後我們行政院 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
12934.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
12957.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
辦公室也有一個2050年的淨零碳排的目標我不知道國會主委你知道嗎行政院的目標我知道報告委員其實整個行政院整個國家我們的科技預算的編列是由國會來負責所以我們的這個淨零科技方案是涵蓋我們整個政府的不是只有國會但是目標不一樣就很怪我跟你講你聽我講 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
12959.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
12982.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
你現在行政院的網站都查得到你也可以去查你知不知道現在在我們行政院的網站上面2050淨零碳排的目標以能源這一塊你知道在2050年我們國家的能源超過一半六成以上是要什麼能源你知道嗎你知道在行政院上面的規劃你知道是什麼嗎是要綠能 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
12983.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
13007.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
對 60到70是再生能源好 那你知道按照行政院的規劃60 70再生能源是以什麼為主嗎好啦 不為難你 我跟你講啦風力跟光電啦你覺得有可能嗎主委你覺得有可能嗎這個還要再努力啦這不可能的事嘛因為我們現在坦白說啦 我們現在的光電 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
13008.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
13036.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
我看得出來好像賴總統也不是很想推了啦因為他已經能放的地方都放了嘛水庫也放了高雄整個山頭砍掉也在放哪裡都在放光電板什麼漁電工生然後什麼農電工生所以他能夠發展已經很有限了好那我們講風力發電風力發電分兩種嘛陸域海域跟陸基嘛海域的現在能放的我看也差不多了啦你再放就影響航道了啦陸域的話地方政府大概也都不會同意了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
13037.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
13063.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
所以我覺得風力發電也都很有限結果你現在我們行政院的網站跟我們講說2050年淨零碳排60到70再生能源要以風力跟光電為主我這太脫離現實了吧那我現在跟主委講這件事情主要目的是說既然你剛剛也提到了嘛行政院整體來說只要是做能源方面的科研的計畫都是編在國科會 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
13064.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
13086.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
那你也要去跟不是編在國會是編在我們科技預算裡面但是是各部會在執行好啦我知道啦就是說跟你有關嘛那你是不是要去跟行政院講一下至少網站改一下或你訂一個新的戰略目標出來啊不過我覺得很好笑欸然後中研院院長喔上次他講啦他說去年我們大概台灣發電是2800億度 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
13089.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
13118.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
然後他的評估啦2050年你知道台灣大概用電量因為AI發展嘛大家今天都在講AI講那個半導體只要他的預估大概2050年大概需要多少電嘛五千億度五千億度到六千億度換言之2050年的發電量要去年的兩倍啦要兩倍我真的很擔憂啦那個主委你覺得在這二十五今年二零二六啦在二十四年我們的發電量要到兩倍 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
13119.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
13137.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
有可能嗎?根據現在國科會你們的規劃是什麼?這個應該是整個經濟發展的需求,估算出來的啦當然嘛,我們就是要以那個預估嘛,不然大家在講什麼AI都沒有用嘛,因為你要有電啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
13138.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
13158.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
算力及電力嘛那大家都知道的事情我現在是問你說以國會你是做研究啊你一定要發展出新能源出來所以現在國會其實是我們在支持各種能源的開發的這個研究我們在支持我知道你會支持但你要有個方向嘛你去思考一下這24年就2026年到2050年20幾年間我們要怎麼樣讓我們的發電量變兩倍我問你 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
13166.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
13191.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
我們現在2026我們往前推二十幾年兩千年的時候我們那時候的發電跟現在發電有到兩倍嗎有到兩倍嗎二十幾年要增加兩倍要增加兩千多億度出來這個是很有挑戰當然啊那你覺得最有機會的是哪一項我看中研院他們是認為說是以地熱跟海洋能作為前瞻人員那國科會 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
13193.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
13202.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
你們主要是針對哪幾項比如說大家跟你申請錢嘛就像你剛剛講的大家跟你申請錢你針對哪幾項你覺得有機會發展你要特別重點補助去發展的是哪幾項 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
13204.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
13230.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
我們所有可能性都補助剛剛委員提到不管是地熱 海洋能只要學生可以投入我們新的核能技術我們也投入所以各種可能性都有我覺得國科會也不能完全沒有戰略思考就是說只要你是發展跟能源有關的我就補助好像大家散彈打鳥你要先訂出戰略的能源發展方向出來我們所有不能所有啦你覺得最有機會的是哪 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
13233.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
13254.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
比如說舉前兩項每一個都有機會啦舉兩項啦兩項總是有嘛人家中研院都可以講出地熱跟海洋能的你國會主委你講不出來喔地熱跟海洋能是其中的兩個對對對那其他你覺得還有哪些是很值得發展我剛跟你講啦我們包含這個新的核能我們也投資啦那新的核能有沒有核廢料 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
13255.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13272.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
核廢料現在要避免是很困難的對嘛但是大幅度的降低這是有可能的因為新核能也是有核廢料你只要有核廢料民進黨就會問你說那核廢料放你煮回家嗎他接下來就會問這件事我們只是研究因為大幅度的降你研究都不行啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13272.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13302.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
因為你只要提到像我們那時候在修核管法只是讓核電廠申請研議的時間放寬而已他就說核廢料放我家了所以你去做研究他也說核廢料放你家學術研究哪有核廢料學術研究只是在探討你不能做那件事啦你做那件事會被罵啦你要研究的話就是要研究出新核能沒有核廢料的不會被罵為什麼因為你不研究你也不知道它有沒有危險所以新核能是沒有核廢料很難沒有核廢料很難沒有嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13303.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
13319.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
很難沒有嘛不是核廢料還有包含核廢料的活性它的半衰期它的輻射量你如果能夠降到這個核廢料的輻射量降到最低它的半衰期很短儲藏的時間可以縮短 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13320.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13342.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
確保安全 民眾可以接受的時候才會去進行嘛所以一定要做研究我是支持啦 我只是怕你被罵啦然後再來就是像國家原子能科技研究院他們的計畫是2035年要發第一度電SMR的 新核能的這個你們有補助10億元嘛 對吧我們有補助 對已經補助了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13343.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13368.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
所以這個就是現在正在審查所以這個東西就是你剛講的只要任何你是研究能源相關的新能源的你們都補助我們要投入你們都投入但我還是強烈建議主委你要有一個戰略的思考就是一個方向不要省在哪裡畢竟國家資源也是有限的而且時間也不多了謝謝委員委員心目中想的我們都有投入然後再來 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13369.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13394.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
問一下人才因為我看主委你有接受媒體訪問你是希望新創矽谷的人才都可以回來台灣嗎投入我們的AI產業嗎是我們希望能夠做那種創新應用的人才我是有看到說你的方法是你要編100億投資基金去投資一些新創公司透過新創公司形成產業鏈然後讓他們在這邊有工作機會可以回來那我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
13395.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13425.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
所以可能你可能要思考另外一個面向啦因為現在真正懂很多懂AI的其實是在國外的大型公司比如說像亞馬遜阿阿里巴巴這種那我們其實還蠻需要這種高階的AI人才可以回到台灣來加入台灣的AI產業那你現在用新創公司比如說你用100億投資那你投資一定是那種新創的就是說他也不知道能不能成功嘛你去支持嘛然後希望他們可以投入那以國外 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13425.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13452.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
已經在大公司很穩健工作的人對他誘因不大啦對他誘因不大所以你應該也要提一個方案出來就是說怎麼協助台灣的企業針對我剛剛講的那些就是已經在國外AI公司已經非常成熟的人要怎麼讓他回來我覺得要提出類似的方案出來我們的新創的方案其實包含這個就是吸引國外的人才回來那回來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13454.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13479.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
為什麼可以吸引他們就是因為新創是一個科技公司它有前景它有發展的這個機會你在一個大公司只是一個螺絲釘你就是拿薪水所以它有這樣的這個發展的機會但是對它來說有成本啊它等於是放棄一家大公司因為政府在支持政府在支持不是只有我覺得你可以試試看當然如果有機會有做得到當然很棒 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13479.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13502.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
可是很可能針對我剛剛講的那部分誘因是不大的所以可能還是要想別的方法出來我們會盡量提供還有其他的研發的補助還有我們要開拓我們自己的內需市場因為我們建的算力目的就是要應用如果沒有應用建的算力就沒有用了就浪費錢所以一定要發展各種各樣應用這是創造未來新公司的一個機會讓年輕人 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
13504.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
13524.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
不必說一定要強迫自己見到既有的這個公司大公司當一個螺絲釘而已而是可以開創自己未來這種機會我們會幫你放出來這個因為每個人都見仁見智有的人就是喜歡去大公司所以我只是說提醒你啦透過新創公司要吸引人才我自己我覺得效果有限啊但也不想潑你冷水啊你可以試試看啦好 謝謝好謝謝葉委員的詢問下一位 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
13535.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
13559.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
林建啟委員林建啟委員不好意思視線都在這邊抱歉抱歉你讓我嚇了一跳好謝謝我們召委我們羅召委主席謝謝那我們請我們的吳主委謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13564.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13584.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
主委好謝謝本席今天因為在這個總質詢有提到原住民科技教育的這一個推動方向所以今天也就兩個層面來跟您這邊做個討論那第一個部分就是如何讓原住民在研究的這個部分呢從一貫的這個課題那成為一個主體 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13585.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
13608.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
第二個部分就是說如何透過國家的一個政策推動然後來培育在地的原住民的科學人才這個是今天兩個主題本席還是非常感謝您到任的時候已經把在國科會裡面人文社會科學裡面原住民的一個研究原本只有整合型已經又讓個別型的研究能夠來進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
13610.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
13639.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
那但是因為在各大學的這個收穩常常在那個整合型跟研究型的一個方向上你們又希望大家做這個族群研究跟這個就是族群研究關係那所以我是希望這個部分能夠拿掉能夠讓大家更自由的在研究的層面能夠做一些發展那這個部分是本席希望你們能夠做的那在本席上期對於原住民族研究的理解其實我們都一直還是在人文社會的框架 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
13640.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
13661.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
但是整個原住民族知識體系的科學內涵其實有它的一個價值但這樣的情形其實原民會也有注意到在110年到114年在建構原住民族教育文化知識體系當中的中長城計畫也提到譬如說亞美族的海洋知識在它蘊藏的魚種的分類傳統的習慣 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
13665.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
13685.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
跟生產的技術都沒有被列入到關聯的生物學或漁業科學的研究領域裡面所以本期這邊提出一個在國際間原住民在科學研究領域裡面的一些例子來供你們參考在生態治理上生物科學期刊在Bioscience的2020年的文獻裡面其實有提到 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
13686.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
13706.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
那麼美洲原住民的傳統的一個捕魚方式能夠維持鮭魚的一個族群穩定那它的永續的效果呢也優於現代大規模的商業捕撈那這個是科學相關的這個研究另外在農業上那美洲原住民的這個三姊妹的混作系統那利用植物的互補關係也被 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
13708.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
13722.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
認為能夠提高產量跟土地的一個利用效率但是這裡面都不是只有文化研究而是已經到了自然科學的一個領域所以國科會在推動這個原住民族的研究計畫的時候是不是可以把這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
13723.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
13750.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
知識不要再一直定位在只有人文社會科學那在科學知識體系的角度也能夠來這樣看待它所以本席這邊來請教就第一個部分是就剛才我所講的人文社會科學領域在族群只有研究族群關係這樣一個方向是不是能夠稍微解構讓大家在人文社會科學不管在整合型跟個別型都可以自由的來做相關的這個研究 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
13751.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
13772.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
這是第一個部分那第二個部分是在你們的115年的整合性計畫有沒有明確的機制來鼓勵原住民族參與自然科學的研究那比如說生態、氣候變遷、農業科技、材料科學等等而不是只有在人文、學科就比較具體一點然後在原住民的這個概念上也能夠被比較實務上的一個羅列 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
13773.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
13792.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
那第三個部分是在推動跨領域的整合型研究上是不是有意識的能夠促進讓原住民族的知識跟現代科學來進行共同研究而不是單向的被研究那這個部分是不是可以請主委給我一個回應委員剛剛提到的幾點我都蠻認同的 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
13794.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
13812.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
所以第一點就是說有關原住民族學者的研究不一定要限定在只是在研究原住民的文化和族群的問題剛剛舉的這個例子我覺得很好所以我想我們人文處這邊應該 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
13814.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
13828.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
我想這個部分應該是相對很具體很簡單就是把那個方向是不是更開放一點把那個帽子不要一直蓋在那個研究的方向上但是如果是要保障我們原住民的學者的話我們還是得要在一個某種範圍之內 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
13830.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
13850.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
不然的話所有的學者其實我們自然處各個領域大家都可以參與社會上應該是要這樣子一個保障但是那個自然科學我覺得是不是可以有一些機制就像本席所講的第二跟第三點如何讓原住民來參與而不是只有被研究所以這個是需要一點時間來做討論的他們參與從來沒有限制過 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
13854.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
13880.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
所有的學者都可以參與我們國會所有的領域的計畫所以為了促進這個科技人才的一個發展所以是不是可以再討論一些比較更細緻的方式來鼓勵原住民的學者在這一些內容上有更多更主體性的一個參與我們是可以從現在的這個機制來鼓勵他們也提醒他們說不是只有研究現有的這個範圍 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
13882.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
13899.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
也就是在生物跟科技上都可以設計出來一些機制來做相關的獨立好不好自然科學包含物理化學生物等等的領域另外一個就是剛剛委員有提到就是跨領域的合作這個是我們整合型計畫裡面也可以有這種跨領域應該都沒問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
13905.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
13931.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
好那是不是就請那個會裡面就更具體的就這個部分來做一些討論好不好是是我跟委員報告就是說其實我們已經在會裡面包括邀請相關的專家還有我們會裡面跨處的協調我們預計在明年度我們就會整合自然處還有工程處還有生科處跟人文然後去回應剛剛委員所提到的規劃很具體的主題 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
13933.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
13958.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
這樣挺好的所以本席這邊也就做一個中整希望你們能夠設計專門支持原住民族的這個自然科學的一個整合型的計畫然後第二個部分是那跨領域的機制呢要推動原住民的知識共同的一個生產那第三個部分是那怎麼樣來將原住民的知識系統更具體的連結到生物氣候農業的科學這個領域那希望你們這個部分能夠有更 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
13959.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
13972.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
具體的一些作為跟計畫還有會議的一些相關的資料本行會後也會再跟你們做一些索取那這個是第一個部分那第二個部分本行很快也就是你們目前有這個發射場 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
13974.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
13999.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
那目前應該是在南回屏東這邊那有沒有機會透過這樣一個太空發展的政策來落實在地人才培育跟區域的一個平衡也就是我們依據太空發展法的第十四條跟第七款那來結合在地的供應鏈營造更友善的一個環境那本席在這邊就為原住民來做一個發聲那我們知道你們的基地會在旭海附近 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
14000.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
14021.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
那麼我們有沒有可能在這個建立一個南回太空產業人才培育的基地然後從國中高中到科技技職教育做系統性的銜接本行業會在相關的不同的單位裡面來做嫁接跟這個媒合那我們希望能夠在國中的階段就可以透過國科會來補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
14023.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
14040.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
國家太空中心跟大學的團隊來擴大推動行動火箭的一個實驗室到原鄉的學校然後讓學生從小就有接觸太空的一個機會來培養興趣那高中就可以在平均時鐘應該是你們目前會有一些連結的 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
14041.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
14069.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
在這個基礎上也來串接花東地區的一個學校讓課程能夠在這個複合的材料電子通訊跟無人機方面還有火箭維修我想原住民的技術層面也是蠻強的所以這個部分是不是就可以做這樣一個嫁接所以第一個部分是國會會可不可以依據太空發展法的一個授權來規劃類似像這樣一個區域型人才的培育基地而不是很零散的只有科普活動 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
14069.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
14090.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
那第二個部分是那你們在目前補助航太研究的計畫是不是有機制要求學界來回饋地方那這個回饋地方的方式就比如說讓教授或研究團隊定期的進入南回相關的學校來進行培育而不是只有留在大學體系那這個部分是不是可以請主委這邊做個回應 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
14092.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
14120.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
謝謝委員我想這個建議很好我們人才培育是全國性的不會只限定在一個區域但是對於我們在花東地區因為南邊還有屏東也延續到花東地區因為有我們的火箭發射站因為這個南回其實也有一些通路我會請我們的太空中心來思考一下怎麼樣結合當地的大學來帶頭然後擴散到中小學其實也不一定當地的大學而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
14121.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
14145.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
就像國科會裡面的各處研究的團體因為基地的關係他們要帶頭去做這個然後我們的學者是全國性的全國性的學者跟團隊其實也都可以一起來做長期的合作然後跟地方政府的合作我們也會做我們太空中心也會做將來人才培育的基地因為如果需要編列相關的經費我們也會來協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
14147.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
14174.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
所以希望能够借这样一个科技发展的这个计划太空的计划然后让这个屏东花东都有机会来参与我们国家最前端的一个科技相关的科普的部分我们科国处也会来协助不是只有科普也要更专业一点从小学一直到从小就是科普对对对小学的科普然后一直到大学的这个专业大学就是专业但是要带动中小学科普的教育对对对好谢谢主委好谢谢 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
14177.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
14203.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
好 謝謝委員的詢答 謝謝主委我們現場如果其他未受詢答的官員血糖比較低的話 可以先用餐那不要影響到會場的委員質詢就好大家對自己不要客氣 好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
14205.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
14223.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
因為監獄巡達的委員都蠻積極的所以自己的身體還是要顧一下那是不是請同仁待會依序就可以去拿便當好不好不要不好意思站起來不要不好意思去拿便當以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
14226.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
14240.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
我們下一位資訊的委員洪孟楷委員主席感謝我們請吳主委有請吳主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
14247.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
14269.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
主委好 國科會當然我們討論一下現在全球所關心AI的狀況前兩天英國《觀察家報》它有排名一個全球的AI指數台灣排名第幾 知道嗎《觀察家報》我不知道耶有沒有看到我沒有看到全球AI指數第一名 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
14270.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
14293.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
那這樣子本期要問第二個問題說第一名到第五名有多少個國家是亞洲國家清楚嗎?也不清楚我想亞洲大概新加坡、韓國、日本他前五名分別是美國第一名、中國大陸第二名、新加坡第三名 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
14294.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
14313.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
英國第四名韓國第五名有三個國家在前五名是亞洲國家而且是臨近我們所以說相對來講我們自己也要努力因為台灣排名第16名對我們要努力那16名裡面他這邊特別有講到是說人才產業跟商業生態相對是比較落後 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
14313.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
14336.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
所以我覺得在國科會這一塊其實我們可以比較細究的就是人才的培育的部分AI的人才相對重要嘛所以本席今天想要更釐清的狀況是主委你應該也理解是說為什麼新加坡為什麼韓國可以排在比較前面他們人才的培育可能也有投入大量的經費跟資源那我們想要看的是說到底國科會有沒有對於我們台灣的人才培育是 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
14337.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
14365.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
一條龍的留住人才的完整的政策還是說一段一段的計畫這一點是我們也希望能夠看到的因為現在看到的是說我們每一個階段每一個階段計畫譬如說有學生的研究計畫有碩博士的研究計畫有博士研究計畫以及產業的研究計畫但我們有沒有做統計到底有多少的人才他是可以持續的在這個領域上面來研究或是深入的來做一個推進 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
14368.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
14386.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
這種追蹤我們沒有辦法做得很完整因為人才的流動很難去追蹤到每個人但是剛剛委員講的各個階段的提示我們都有投入前段在中小學的部分其實教育部投入很多大學也有 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
14386.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
14412.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
但是在研究所以後這個人才就是我們在國科會的這個投入之下培養這個相關的研發的人力這是主要是國科會努力的方向當然國際合作我們跟這個特別是在應用領域我們比較缺乏的這些國家我們來做相關的這個合作這也是我們現在努力的目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
14414.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
14434.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
本席現在的問題就是說你分階段分階段都有做相關的不管是我們的研究計畫的一個補助或說研究計畫的一個的協助但是他人才的部分他就是分類有大學生的有博士生的有年輕學者的有產業人才的然後還有就是說人設卓越計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
14435.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
14444.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
但是我們現在想問的是說我們投入了那麼多費用到底有沒有把它變成是人才的一個持續培育還是說它就變成是各階段的一個單點單點的一個補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
14447.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
14474.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
這個才是本席想要請教過去我們已經花錢也許一開始沒有辦法一開始我們草創階段只能每個階段每個階段給予但是現在也已經幾年過去了那也看到說我們感覺有一個瓶頸在本席現在都是以很客觀持平來講因為不管是我剛剛講的全球AI指數或是說其他的機構做的AI感覺起來台灣我們中華民國就是被排名在差不多10名到20名左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
14474.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
14488.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
所以我們怎麼有辦法是說往前邁進這才是本席今天關心的重點是我了解台灣其實歸根究底可能最大的問題就是因為台灣的硬體產業非常的強 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
14489.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
14506.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
非常強不管是你在學校培育的是是什麼樣的人才大多數好的人才最終都進到我們半導體還有AI硬體的這個產業因為那邊的獲利比較高比較能夠吸引人才所以反而我們在相關的這個創新應用系統的 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
14509.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
14536.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
那個社會的這個需求人才反而是比較不足這是我們要改善的是 但是現在我們講嘛有些時候站在風頭上連豬都會起飛啊有聽過這句話嗎所以也因此講是說如果說未來的這十年甚至未來的一個趨勢AI的軟體運用是一個很大的產業那我們就不能只是擁抱我們過去因為我們的台積電我們的半導體我們的晶圓相對來講是過去二三十年打下的基礎 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
14537.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
14552.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
那但是現在也看到啦我們的台積電也往美國有些往美國往日本移動那我們現在要講的是說我們怎麼樣去培育下一個階段產業的趨勢脈動也跟我們來說相結合所以本期比較具體的建議主委你聽聽看 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
14554.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
14577.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
針對我們現在有做的不管是大學生 數博士生或者是說年輕的學者的這個有獲得補助的部分是不是定期的能夠追蹤他們到底後續續留在相關AI產業裡面以及他們的這個持續產出的一個可行性來做一個比較完整的趨勢讓我們能夠理解是說我們現在所投入的每一分錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
14577.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
14597.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
他都等於是打基礎打地基能夠持續的蓋把我們台灣AI人才給持續的留在這個領域並且持續能夠有做累積好謝謝委員這個建議這個其實對我們來講相當的困難因為困難學生離開學校以後他們去向我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
14598.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
14621.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
我們也很難去他獲得了國科會的研究補助然後後續他怎麼樣是不是有持續留在這個領域精進或者說他可以往哪一個方向發展這個沒有辦法做追蹤我們是沒有辦法追蹤人因為人是很自由在移動他最後會進到哪樣那這樣子他有沒有留在台灣或說甚至有沒有在這個產業持續的扎根 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
14622.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
14647.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
跟說我們一次性的補助這個就是本席現在想問的我們不能每過十年之後還做草創的事情嗎我們只能用後續的統計統計我們不會知道說哪個人因為我們沒有權去追蹤個人嘛後續這個產業的發展我們的人才的狀況來回過頭來推算看我們投資的是不是能夠產生效益本席現在沒有要的是個案 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
14650.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
14661.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
本質要的是說針對你的這樣計畫你至少你能了解是說我們後續你的追蹤是不是有效然後持續在這個領域裡面能夠有人才的培育 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
14663.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
14678.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
也許部分是跟教育部有相關但是有許部分是還有經濟部我們會來努力看看來做一下相關的統計來看看那個成效當然我們現在的政策上我們也希望是能夠引導引導非 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
14681.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
14707.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
在這個專業領域非電資領域的這些人才這是另外一個階段嘛就等於是說他跨界或是斜槓能夠來參與希望他們能夠善用AI來發展各行各業的滿足他的需求我們現在會努力來做所以我知道這個議題是相對比較大的議題那但是我期待的是國科會他用的經費是能夠讓台灣的人才持續扎根這也是為什麼我會跟你提出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
14708.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
14723.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
要跨部會我也知道也因此本席才講說由國科會這邊來掌握至少因為未來的社會裡面這個人才的培育是重要的那本席從這個全球AI指數就看到連外國媒體都點出來台灣的困境在於是人才產業 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
14725.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
14740.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
我們就是要想辦法補足這一塊不過我跟委員報告一個事實就是即使我們培養非常多的AI的人才他雖然最後不是進到AI的產業他是進到台灣的高科技的產業雖然是做半導體、AI的設備 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
14743.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
14760.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
但是因為這些人的加入讓台灣的半導體AI的設備設備的公司我們的智慧製造是全世界最厲害的我們這個產業會這麼強的原因也是因為過去有這種努力各種各樣好的人才都進到這個產業雖然它造成不平衡 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
14761.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
14784.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
但是會讓台灣這個產業變成全世界第一名啊你講那個AI的排名你如果講AI我們過去到現在沒有否定台灣某些產業是第一但是本席現在在講的是其實你不覺得這樣子溝通真的有點困擾你這樣的感覺好像說反正我們排名16無所謂啦18無所謂啦現在AI落後無所謂啦喊孤手在前面 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
14785.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
14808.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
我沒有這樣講我剛剛已經講過你現在講我們怎麼樣講不客氣的怎麼樣在AI產業上面我們也好想贏韓國就這樣一件事情所以我剛剛有跟委員報告說那結果你現在跟我講是說沒關係反正我們的AI人才也去半導體我不是說沒關係那半導體不就是過去三四十年我們的竹科投入了然後才有現在的基礎所以也許不是一兩年有辦法超越 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
14808.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
14827.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
但是我們現在不做的話永遠就沒有辦法起步我們如果沒有培養這些AI人才我們的半導體產業沒有辦法做到今天這種智慧市場沒有辦法所以這個不是說我們白費力氣培養這些人才我現在沒有講白費力氣我現在講的是人才要聚焦要培育 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
14828.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
14846.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
如果說你認為說這一塊沒有那麼重要的話那也不會現在刷碼AI 駭馬AI甚至現在內閣還自詡叫AI內閣結果本席在問的是說連AI的人才到底去了哪裡有沒有好的培育你也回答不出來我剛剛回答了大部分人才跑到我們強勢的產業 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
14847.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
14870.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
因為那邊的收入比較高但是我不是說這樣是所以主委我們能不能努力在國科會的努力之下我們也讓台灣的AI產業可以變成是收入比較高比較好的一群讓我們的AI實力能夠比較好有我同意這個但是我剛剛已經結束我已經剛剛講了我希望能夠協助其他的產業的發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
14872.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
14876.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
所以基本的資料先拿出來我們拿數據來說話大家討論數據就是我剛剛講的現狀未來的發展是AI新時代建設我們要推動全民智慧生活圈 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
14888.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
14912.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
就是要做創新應用系統啊要協助其他的產業啊主委本席都很那好你可不可以聽本席現在我們剛剛講了那麼多的東西其實最主要我要求的就是請國科會跟經濟部跟教育部來討論一下是不是在一定的時間內給我們相關到底你過去這幾年投入AI的人才培育的部分他們的走向 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
14912.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
14934.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
以及他們是不是有持續在這個行業還是即便是他到了半導體產業的時候他們怎麼樣去貢獻你至少拿出數據來說服國會說服國人而本期看到一個客觀數據今天不是我去做今天不是台灣排名16並不是我做的是英國觀察人觀察家報他們做出來的一個指標 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
14935.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
14953.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
我也沒有否定因為他93個國家我們排名16也有人講是說不錯但是有沒有能夠更好因為前五名有三個國家是亞洲國家我們不比韓國人差我們不比中國大陸人差我們不比新加坡人差我們怎麼樣能夠跟上這才是本席的重點我們在AI的應用我們一定會努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
14954.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
14983.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
但是在AI的硬體製造台灣是全世界第一的這你不能否認但是我們會努力把台灣的大內宣真的大內宣可以省一省本席要的是怎麼樣能夠一起努力看到我們同仁都在笑了本席要的是我們可以一起努力不是說我們今天關起門來大內宣所以16名怎麼樣能夠往前邁進拿出具體的辦法先從地部整理相關資料我們一起共同再來討論可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
14984.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
14985.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
多久時間內可以根本吸這個統計 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
15001.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
15026.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
要跟教育部還有經濟部一起做這個可能要三個月三個月好本席等你三個月好本席要的是真真正正看到數據數據不會騙人數據很科學很理性數據大概會但絕對不是這種你自我感覺良好一直講台灣No.1我不是自我感覺良好台灣當然No.1但是有很多我們不足的地方我們要努力每天都在台灣No.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
15028.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
15053.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
我們要努力AI新十大建設就希望我們大院趕快把我們的預算通脫謝謝做好自然我們會好好的來努力但是主委如果說用這種態度的話真的國人都看在眼裡了拜託我們已經做得很好好不好你的數據是排名16這客觀的事實這不是我的數據啊拜託謝謝我們自己排名是第一的啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
15067.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
15078.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
謝謝好我們現場的官員都沒有拿便當喔讓我很擔憂自己要照顧好自己的血糖那我們下一位諮詢委員是邱志偉邱委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
15083.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
15102.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
先請教教主席今天質詢時間是4加8還是4加44加8還是無邊際質詢4分鐘那剛剛為什麼4加8如果你想要的話也可以我一定是精準有效率優質質詢好那我給你4分鐘謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].start |
15109.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].end |
15113.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].text |
第一個問題想請教吳主委南科管理局鎮局長秋蓉 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].start |
15118.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].end |
15139.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].text |
吳助理我們前陣子才去那個橋頭科學園去連外道路嘛你講的讓我很感動那整個連外道路目前一之一跟二之三目前正在興建對不對沒有這一之一二之三啊這個一毀沒辦法出去人沒辦法進來也會影響當地橋頭市民的這個出入的安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].start |
15140.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].end |
15150.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].text |
所以這個一之一跟二十三您了解是不是有興建的必要性跟急迫性是有必要性是好那鄭局長您最了解因為這裡的管區 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].start |
15153.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].end |
15179.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].text |
我們會跟高雄市政府跟國土署一起來努力合作因為私建的是這個國土署但是未來管理還是屬於僑科所以這部分我期待能夠跟國土署跟高雄市政府盡快把這個連環道路拼建完成因為今天這個工農市營運已經在今年年初1月19號已經完成了對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].start |
15179.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].end |
15184.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].text |
你的大樓 污水處理設備這些自容室都已經做好了 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].start |
15185.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].end |
15209.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].text |
是是做好一下就是連外道路一定要通好不然呢這個廠商進駐啊他的產能或者他的這個運作會受到很嚴重的影響也會影響到當地居民的這個交通權益這部分請主委請鄭局長來這個大力的這個跟國土署市政府協調進駐把它開配完成好我們會努力好我有2分30秒 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].start |
15212.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].end |
15219.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].text |
來 第二個議題在70頁裡面提到推動台灣特色跟價值運動文化研究其中有一項促進運動產業的社會創新你們在114到115補助了九件計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].start |
15227.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].end |
15234.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].text |
那我對這個計畫還蠻有興趣的 是不是會後可以提供給我九項計畫為什麼針對這一項來提出這個質詢呢這是屬於這個國會哪一個處的業務呢人文處這個特別是運動產業的社會創新 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].start |
15247.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].end |
15267.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].text |
運動產業一定要用政府資源政策協助運動產業才會發展十年前我們職棒的這個每場入場人數大概只有幾千人現在每一場都這樣您也是棒球選手對不對 諸位職棒是十幾年來透過政府成立運動部然後引進更多的這個資源球場改善 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].start |
15268.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].end |
15287.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].text |
才會讓這個職業運動的產業能夠蓬勃發展所以職棒已經站好腳步了接著職籃 職牌是職足日本職足啊職業足大概是20年前才開始推動但是現在每一場職足的比賽入場人數都超過職棒 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].start |
15289.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].end |
15300.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].text |
這個政策去引導資源去藝術然後用政府的力量扶持整個運動產業的發展我覺得國會做相關的研究正規劃我覺得非常非常有意義 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].start |
15302.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].end |
15321.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].text |
謝謝委員肯定那你的想法呢我是非常認同我們希望把運動變成我們文化一部分所以運動部成立以後其實國會也一直在協助運動部看看能不能發展相關的產業跟文化結合在一起讓這個產業發展以後政府的負擔就不用那麼高 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].start |
15323.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].end |
15349.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].text |
產業發展讓民間自動支援改天啊 早時間再跟您請益這相關的細節另外這個所謂創新創業基地計畫這個部分我想TTA創業科技新創基地TTA有幾個全台灣有幾個你說基地有幾個就是在台北跟台南沙崙國科會自己的高雄也設一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].start |
15350.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].end |
15355.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].text |
所以我示範什麼叫精準優質的效率質詢好我們謝謝邱委員精闢直接的質詢切入到位謝謝我們下一位中嘉賓中委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].start |
15388.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].end |
15388.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].text |
有請吳主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].start |
15401.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].end |
15414.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].text |
黃處長跟張哲銘主委好 兩位處長好今天是談到國園院SMR初期報告誤導視聽國科會應關注能源並且延伸補助計畫來 我先請教一下主委首先大家都在談能源 再進行下一個來 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].start |
15415.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].end |
15442.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].text |
除了我剛剛問經濟委員會問經濟部中東戰士天然氣吃緊結果呢經濟部說除了中東之外我們要採購來分散到美國或其他地方你同意嗎同意但是除了這個之外呢有人說這個電力供應要多元化我們不能電燃氣要光電跟地熱要加強開發你同意嗎這個我們都還要再研究再看看它的可行性但是電子產業來說新型核能也是選項什麼是新型核能我們來看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].start |
15443.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].end |
15470.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].text |
這是前天有一個中央社的說台灣的小型模組化核子的供應爐呢它SMR研究今年啟動最快2035年會發出第一度電我嚇一跳啊這個叫做國家原子科技研究院表示已經初步盤點了三種SMR的技術可以讓高階核肺大減於七成請問 主委有沒有看到這個報導 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].start |
15472.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].end |
15499.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].text |
媒體的報導我沒有注意到那你知道國研院這個是什麼東東嗎國家原子能科技研究院它是有接受你們的補助我們是編科技上因為這個是那你覺得他這樣的一個報導是不是又符合我們總統所說的核廢要而解核安要確保社會有共識有符合在上條件嗎目前看他的資訊他現在就是要研究他的資訊目前有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].start |
15500.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].end |
15525.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].text |
有沒有達到這三項標準啊SMR有沒有達到目前是有機會有機會好來我看一下我來看一下主委知不知道什麼是SMR所謂的小型化合反應爐它的技術是來自於核子潛艦為什麼美蘇冷戰時間要長期的躲在水底下不用換氣不用換燃料所以呢SMR在軍事上一次裝填直到這個潛艦退是不是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].start |
15526.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].end |
15540.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].text |
所以它體積小容易移動所以就有人想到了那如果潛艦可以用那我們是不是可以把它拖來過其他的供電使用所以就有一個SMR的售電服務它只買電力供應服務你不用處理什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].start |
15541.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].end |
15568.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].text |
核廢跟電廠出於的問題沒有核貨的問題主委這是不是你所知道的是目前在倡議的SMR它的來由跟它的原因受青睞的原因我的了解不是這個樣子那請問這SMR是什麼它為什麼在商業上可以來應用它的源頭是不是跟美國的核動力潛艦是來自於同一個源頭可能想法從那個地方開始但是真正技術的發展現在有好幾個新的技術那它真的可以把核廢壓縮減少七成以上嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].start |
15571.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].end |
15579.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].text |
這是有機會的,但是還要進一步去研究2035年之前可以做到?因為報紙上這樣寫啊那您自己評估有沒有可能? |
| transcript.whisperx[589].start |
15583.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].end |
15602.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].text |
是有機會因為現在是還在試驗的階段美國在試驗階段國科會剛剛提到國科會審查國務院的計畫掌握了這個內容沒有來往下看其實傳統核電跟ASMR重啟核電跟VS我們的機載傳統核電像牛棚的投手 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].start |
15603.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].end |
15624.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].text |
當我戰況吃緊的時候我趕快請中繼投手來投個五球三球解決一兩個打者這個你很熟對不對那個是緊急備援的但是呢SMR被搶的什麼指定打擊每一場都上而且真的是威力很大所以呢一個是吃緊缺少的緊急備援一個是成本高但是可以供應穩定的電力供應是不是未來的應用是這樣思考 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].start |
15626.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].end |
15646.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].text |
包含它的成本目前還很高所以說因為它的成本很高所以不是很多的產業都用得起我們來看一下哪些產業會把它當作基礎原理傳產毛利低它希望平衡的電力維持競爭力但是高科技產業毛利高它只要空電穩定它可以接受高電價 是不是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].start |
15648.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].end |
15671.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].text |
如果電價高的話的確會有這種事是的 所以就SMR來講在國內是高科技產業在期待但是傳產的對產業意義不大因為你電價太高了所以我是說國科會對於國園院他所研究的內容有沒有辦法掌握到這個SMR的購電價格有沒有辦法確定他的服務內容和後段有沒有爆發在內是不是還有簽約的對象目前這三個東西跑出來了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].start |
15672.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].end |
15692.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].text |
還沒有,因為我們就是要先進行可行性研究所以我們是做可行性研究,我們會是未來的供應商嗎?不是吧?應該是其他有這個能力儲存這些封存後退役的這些SMR,他的國家才會提供我們要評估我們適不適合用,人家在做那個腦塞的藥,我們想說我們有那個卡生糖要吃,是不是這樣? |
| transcript.whisperx[594].start |
15695.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].end |
15709.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].text |
這個比較粗俗一點啦所以說當這三個條件還沒有浮現之前我們敢說SMR在台灣可以解決產業的藍莓之急嗎現在還沒有這個結論是所以沒有購電價格產業沒有我要不要用你沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].start |
15710.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].end |
15725.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].text |
服務的內容沒有確定核後端是不包含在我們的業者使用的範圍也就是說核後端你自己提供或者你自己處理我們台灣沒有辦法處理核廢料或者說沒有供應的簽約對象如果這三者沒有半個 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].start |
15726.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].end |
15745.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].text |
那SMR在台灣的商業應用幾乎是不可能的你同不同意同意好謝謝好我們現在看所以請我們國科會做這個事情請調查一下國園院對外發布SMR這是初期媒體寫的這麼樣的白天正大國科會跟核安會一周內就你們部分提出說明好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].start |
15746.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].end |
15758.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].text |
好第二個國科會未來應該加強化我們審查能源計畫包括國園院SMR中長期的研究計畫是要你們積極辦理但是請你們要審慎發布研究成果可以嗎是沒問題好謝謝謝謝鍾委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].start |
15770.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].end |
15797.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].text |
下一位巡大委員鄭振淺 鄭振淺 鄭振淺洪玉祥 洪玉祥 洪玉祥何欣淳 何欣淳 何欣淳許富奎謝謝主席 要請我們吳主委 太空中心吳主任還有南科慣例局我們的鄭主任何欣淳主任好 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].start |
15799.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].end |
15816.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].text |
主委好主委我想最近這個新聞很熱門不管是我們美國的川普總統重返月球的一個計畫還有AI太空中心的一個設立這樣的一個雙引擎的驅動讓我們的高科技太空產業嚇嚇叫 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].start |
15818.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].end |
15836.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].text |
但是因為這些的都會涉及到所謂的一個太空的一個科技的一個產業的一個發展那根據目前統計2025年太空科技產值超過五千億美元那市場預期未來十年至少會翻倍成長到一兆主委認為可能嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].start |
15838.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].end |
15854.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].text |
十年喔,我們覺得是有可能啦注意你這麼保守喔,我領的很快的因為這真的是火箭是用飛的,用發射,那個速度很快但是我想台灣面對這樣的一個國際的競爭之下 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].start |
15856.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].end |
15884.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].text |
那當然我們臺灣政府把太空產業已經列為這個六大核心的戰略產業之一那國科會也扮演相當重要的一個角色主委所以你自己很重要我來拍邊拍邊但是我想目前除了這個低軌衛星發射場域建設跟人才培運之外我想主委我們現在臺灣在這個國際太空產業鏈的供應鏈的比例目前大概占了多少有統計數據嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].start |
15885.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].end |
15905.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].text |
現在還很低2.5%但是我們很快要有很大的成長空間主委那我想這個我們不能因此而自滿因為我想我們目前的這個太空產業台灣還是以電子零組件跟所謂的地面設備為主其實我想這樣太保守了 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].start |
15906.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].end |
15930.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].text |
未來國科會包含我們的南科現在在我們屏東有屏東科學園區我想未來產業的發展還有我們人才的培育部分應該是要朝未來關鍵零組件的一個目標來邁進主委跟局長主任你們有沒有信心有信心我們不只做關鍵零組件我們系統組合系統整合我們都要做對我們整組都要做整組都要做 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].start |
15934.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].end |
15955.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].text |
目標大概多久可以要完成你說整座的這個目標啦哪世界第一這個目標啦世界第一啦 沒跟世界第一啦但是我們會是關鍵的他們的合作夥伴啦10年來絕對沒問題啦 我們連火箭都要射 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].start |
15956.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].end |
15970.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].text |
先不要說到這麼大的目標,不要說世界第一啦我們先回過頭來來講屏東九棚國家火線發射場這個非常感謝我們中央政府的支持在我們滿洲成立了這樣一個國家級的發射場足以為過嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].start |
15972.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].end |
16000.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].text |
主委,你們現在目前訂出來的這個目標首顆台灣自製的低軌衛星預計在2027年發射那九鵬國家發射場最快在2031年完工那首枚台灣自製的火箭規範預計在2034年從屏東升空這個目標有改變嗎?沒有,沒有改變如果能夠提前,我們還希望提前但是喔,主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].start |
16001.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].end |
16025.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].text |
有夢最美但是我很擔心剛剛我也在跟吳主任講了一個事情現在是2026年離九鵬的發射場還有五年後要完工但是因為你現在所謂的一個國家級的發射場必須要有重大的一個交通建設跟周邊的一些水電相關的基礎設施到目前為止還沒有開始啟動未來你怎麼樣去設置這樣的一個發射場 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].start |
16027.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].end |
16047.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].text |
我們現在參與的民農館政府在合作,我們的都市計畫完整要整個,不是只有交通而已,社區的發展等等,將來會有同業人員,整個發展要把它規劃好,我們會把它放到我們大南灣新矽谷的,就是S郎的這個計畫裡面。 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].start |
16049.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].end |
16063.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].text |
主委但是我還是要提一個事情因為這個重要的這個重大建設的部分一定要仰賴中央的支持尤其你現在綜藝省還沒過那屏東縣政府目前今年我知道預算也減少了46億 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].start |
16066.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].end |
16084.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].text |
中央也沒有集齊,管政會也沒有集齊,未來這個重大交通建設跟基礎建設的開闢怎麼辦?會不會影響到這個時程?是,我們也很期待大院可以趕快把我們的預算能夠審過,然後我們會中央各部會一起來協助,跟地方政府合作 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].start |
16086.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].end |
16103.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].text |
主委我想最後我還是要提供一個數據2025年全球已經進行了325次航太的一個發射那平均一個月超過26次我想這些先進國家大家一直都在追逐這個太空夢我們不能一直只有原地踏步啦我們要加緊腳步啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].start |
16104.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].end |
16127.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].text |
主委這裡來拜託您那後續整個包含交通的部分基礎建設的部分我也會來協調縣政府跟我們相關交通部各單位大家一起來拚但是你們的角色很重要一定要從行政院跨部位來合作共同來促成好不好好謝謝謝謝徐委員詢答下一位林柱英萬美玲 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].start |
16132.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].end |
16158.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].text |
蔡易瑜蔡易瑜蔡易瑜蘇清泉蘇清泉蘇清泉今天登記的質詢委員均已發言完畢詢答結束另有洪玉祥萬美林委員提出書面質詢列入公報紀錄關於本次會議做如下決定 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].start |
16159.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].end |
16184.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].text |
報告及詢答完畢委員所提書面諮詢或者是相關的資料均列入紀錄刊登公報對於委員質詢時要求今日所提供的相關資料或者未及答覆的部分請相關機關盡速以書面答覆報告委員會今日的議程處理完畢現在散會 |