| IVOD_ID |
17302 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17302 |
| 日期 |
2026-03-25 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-36-3 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第3次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
3 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第3次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2026-03-25T08:31:26+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-03-25T11:30:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
02:58:34 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/8d241381c4f8c7fc4ee4a7eab0b67bbe07777c324b69055f44e0a145e6cc6f0f75c49c4c113355d15ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-03-25T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：邀請行政院人事行政總處人事長列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢。
【3月25日及26日兩天一次會】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:31:26 - 11:30:00 |
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報告委員會初期委員8人已足法定人數請主席宣布開會我們現在開會進行報告事項宣讀上次的會議議事錄立法院第11屆第5會期司法及法治委員會第二次全體委員會議議事錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1761.504 |
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1786.075 |
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時間 中華民國115年3月18日星期三 上午9時4分至11時59分3月19日星期四 上午9時至12時8分地點 本院紅樓302會議室出席委員 陳昭次委員等13人列席委員 鍾嘉斌委員等14人列席官員 3月18日法務部部長鄭明謙等人3月19日考試院院長 劉建興等人主席翁昭及委員小林3月18日報告事項 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1786.775 |
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1810.636 |
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一 宣讀上次會議議事錄決定確定二 邀請法務部部長率所屬單位主管列席報告業務開框及立法計畫並備質詢本日會議有委員吳宗憲等十二人提出質詢委員蔡吉章等三人提出書面質詢決定一 報告解詢答完畢二 委員質詢時要求提供相關資料或以書面答覆者請相關機關敬書送交個別委員及本會 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1811.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1837.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
3月19日報告實項 邀請考試院秘書長 考學部部長 權需部部長及公務員保障及培訓委員會主任委員列席報告業務概況及立法計畫並備質詢本日會議有委員陳昭芝等15人提出質詢委員蔡吉章等4人提出書面質詢決定一 報告及詢答完畢二 委員質詢時要求提供相關資料或以書面答覆者請相關機關禁書送交個別委員及本會宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1840.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1863.173 |
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請問各位上次會議議事錄人不夠齁,OK,好,等下一點點那我們接著來介紹到場的委員跟應邀列席的官員先介紹像有大將之風的,今天充滿了戰鬥氣息但是今天比較溫柔的,我們的成朝之委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1865.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1882.991 |
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還有我們接著來給大家看一看看了大家多尊敬來我們接下來介紹列席的官員我們人事長蘇俊榮人事長還有政務副人事長張秋元這很久不見了所以要再一次介紹一下公務人力發展學院院長陳明忠陳院長還有綜合規劃處處長李美貴理處長 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1893.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1905.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
組織人力處處長 邱怡章 邱處長還有我們培訓考用處處長 李花書這不跟你介紹 有時候平時也不會跟你們相處還有給予福利處處長 程樹之 程處長人事資訊處處長 曾怡君 曾處長秘書室主任 這要找 保安要找這個來 蔡富雄 蔡主任 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1921.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1933.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
人事室主任 陳怡君 陳主任還有主計室主任 林秀柱還有政風室主任 于雅雯主任來 這樣介紹一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1936.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1957.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
那本次的會議我們週三週四我們就兩天一次會那我們今天議程的排定是邀請行政院人事行政總處人事長來列席報告業務狀況及立法計畫並被質詢那我們現在我們就來進行報告請行政院人事行政總處書人事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1967.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1993.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
趙偉還有陳委員各位夥伴大家早安在此非常感謝趙偉安排總署安排這一次的業務報告那總署統籌規劃整個行政院所屬各個機關人力資源管理的政策秉持的務實穩健的原則配合國家施政重點持續推動組織設置健全各項待遇福利精進 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1995.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2020.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
公務人力管理機制以下僅就總署近期重要的業務成果還有今年度的工作重點及立法計畫進行報告首先為了強化整個組織運作韌性 運動部及首署機關已經於114年9月陸續成立同時各支會 衛護部 兒家署 長照社發署及中央健康保險署等 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2021.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2036.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
組織法案已經送請大院審議另外為了持續提升組織的效能115年的原額評鑑將特別推動AI納入重點引導機關應用AI技術提升整體的行政效能 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2037.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2055.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
在植物結構方面為了落實均衡台灣以人才在地的發展總署與情緒部合力推動植物列等檢討調整作業其中在中央機關調整三級的屬級菊花屬級首屬的四級機關課長成績至於地方機關則擴增列等上限為 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2061.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2076.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
第八、第九職等的主管及會主管的職務在AI智能的培育方面總處與塑化部共同整理AI公務人才發展辦公室作為跨部會資源整合平台統籌規劃全國公務人員AI培訓工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2078.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2092.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
總助並致力於打造系統化與生態化的人才培育體系以AI與業務中實際應用為核心建構從入門到精通的公務AI學習地圖透過嚴謹的認證機制與多元課程確保同仁積備解決業務痛點的數位戰力 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2099.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2120.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
在照顧軍公教員工部分總處因應政府業務發展及攬採流採的需要積極合理調整各類人員的待遇如上一年我們提高國軍職業役加級還有戰鬥加級這個部分大概有171億為了確保中央基層員工薪資優於最低薪資的1.1倍 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2122.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2148.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
特別在邊境管制 農業及治安等關鍵領域 核定國境業務輪班人需屋人員生業為老性的職務津貼 調升職務防檢人員的專業佳績及擴大治安人員政治專業佳績的事業範圍同時也提高警察人員刑事加成及勤務繁重加成消防人員危險佳績這個部分大概加起來有31億那 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2151.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2165.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
另外在進入書記官的政治專業佳績的部分也已經以今年通過其透過薪資結構的優化 實質衛冕通能的辛勞並提升公務職場競爭力 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2166.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2193.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
在建構友善職場方面 本總署積極完善各項申請保障措施 未落實健康台灣的政策與考試院共同推動訂定公務人員申請條是假從114年10月10號到今年的1月底行政院所屬各機關申請人數已超過2萬人次另外為維護公務人員執行職務時的安全與健康總署也配合法治的主管機關保訓會 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2194.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2220.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
完成公務人員保障法以公務人員執行植物安全及衛生防護辦法的修正完善職場霸凌防治與申訴機制此外本總處亦持續優化員工協助方案其修制度與公部門員工托育服務並透過多管齊下的友善措施全面守護同仁的身心健康有鑑於健全的公務體系是政府穩健運作的核心 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2220.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2241.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
本總署將持續積極提升政府組織運作強化研究應用效益在人才發展上出拓展高階文官的前瞻國際視野更藉由推動AI政府領航人才發展計畫打造數位戰力的政府團隊同時持續完善公務人員待遇制度 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2241.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2256.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
營造友善且健康的職場環境期盼透過多元積極作為前面提升公部門的流產吸引力為國家奠定獲實的基礎敬請各位委員繼續予以支持 以上報告進行指教好 謝謝蘇仁市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2267.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2296.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
好那我們現在機關代表報告完畢相關的書面內容請各位參閱並列入公報記錄現在我們來進行詢答本會委員詢答的時間備份間那必要時我們可以延長兩分鐘8加2非本會委員詢答的時間五分鐘並不再延長上午我們就10點30分截止發言登記我們現在來請登記第一位 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2298.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2299.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
謝謝主席 有請任市長請任市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2312.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2331.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
委員長好 任市長早有很長的一段時間公務員是台灣人人都想擠破頭搶 非常搶手的工作大概是因為這個工資還有這個福利還不錯那整個情況也都 就業情況非常的穩定所以才會被稱為是鐵飯碗但是 任市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2335.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2361.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
現在我們來回顧報考人數你看看這個投影片上這張圖它下降的速度當然沒有台灣的人口生育數下降的那麼陡可是看起來那個趨勢已成2010年有53萬人來報考公務員但是這個是考試院到目前為止只有的資料2023年只剩下19萬當時大概就比起之前不到3成6理事長請問這兩年呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2363.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2387.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
這兩年是不是持續往下走呢大概持平啦 坦白講喔持平嗎政府基本上我們提供一個有數字嗎因為這個曲線是往下走 走了好多年聽說去年呢 2025年是多少人來報考呢我們手上拿到考選部統計資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2390.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2400.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
上一年是從八萬六降到五萬七大概降的快...不是說報到嗎?沒有報考,報考人數報考人數剩五萬多 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2402.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2423.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
就是高普考因為我們還有很多的考試初等還有特考我們有因為這個是考試院提供的因為它是identify在高考跟普考的部分考試院的定義當然就是說如果有考試院直接的定義那是更好比較它的涵蓋面會比較廣聽起來還是很覺得驚心膽破它是有為逐年下法可是沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2424.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2451.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
人事長您覺得是有穩定下來是不是有止滑是不是那其實公務員當然是維持整個政府運作非常重要的螺絲釘如果說公務員這個短缺的話就是代表說優秀人才他不願意或不選擇到政府機關來工作那這樣是會應該是會大大影響政府的體系的運作效能那人事長如果我們對比一下公司部門的這個薪資我就以這個工程科類跟資訊處理類為例 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2454.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2466.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
工職不只是起薪比較低那整個薪水漲幅的這個級距也不如民間我們來比較這個OECD國家OECD國家大概有30個啦那這裡大概有幾個重要代表國家台灣公務員的人事費的比率是倒數第二名大概佔不到GDP的6%那個林市長你有掌握這樣的資訊嗎我有掌握到 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2482.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2498.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
那大學剛畢業的新人他覺得公務員並不被政府注重重視那薪水漲幅當然失去優勢可是過去我了解對於公務員他們最大的吸引力不在於說起薪要多高而是說他可以有預期的回報那現在他們變成預期的沒回報 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2502.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2529.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
大概他們心態是這樣導致心血也不加入然後再指的想離職那留下來的人因為他工作量越來越大所以更加速了這個離職率渗入惡性循環那外界有聲音表示公務員的新典制度或是所謂的新典折合率應該要重新檢討讓公務員的這個薪資可以跟得上民間請問任市長您是否會支持或推動類似的改革 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2530.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2546.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
我利用這個機會跟委員報告一下,事實上這個新制代議的部分除了每年調代審議委員會之外,我們有對整個專業加急票在討論,大概今年應該六月底以前 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2547.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2576.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
我們會做一個比較大幅度的一個調整然後會跟行政院報告取得行政院的支持那陳儒委員提的一些問題事實上我們也很積極的來面對可是這個專業假期表因為牽涉到幾十萬公務人員他不同的專長他的待遇的調整的部分遷移法動前身這個部分我們菸澤商會在六月底前會把整個調整的方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2576.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2596.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
送到行政院嗎會送到行政院那您預期多久可能送到立法院來做審查這是我們行政院內部處理好大概會做一些公告的程序市長因為我剛剛聽到雖然我不知道基礎不一樣因為我沒有最新的資料您說現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2598.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2612.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
公務員就是說報考什麼的報到只有五、六萬人這個嚇死人高普考因為考試的項目坦白講我剛才報告了有高考、普考、特考還有各式還有那個初等考試 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2613.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2621.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
這樣好不好 人事長我就用同一個基礎算法定義的方式我想看一下這更新的部分我們再跟考協部要好了我們跟考協部要提供給委員那我再請人事長看一下這張圖這張圖是另外一個指標叫公務員的缺額率 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2631.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2647.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
這個紅色的是中央政府那藍色的是地方政府但是你可以看到缺額率都是在往上走那以中央政府來說2025年就去年了這次構心了去年大概就是整個全部總的來看大概是85.7%就是它缺了十幾個%那中央的部分是86.5%但是地方是大概85.3%簡單的說 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2656.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2670.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
100人可以完成的工作假設我們這個原額我們認定這個原額都是合理的現在只剩下不到86個人在工作我想請教任市長你會不會擔心公務體系會崩盤然後您自己認為耐受門檻 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2672.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2690.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
大概是多少我覺得委員這個問題非常的棒事實上我們一直在思考因為出生率低然後報考的然後而且一個很重要的目前整個市場的景氣蠻好的譬如像高科技的譬如像土木的所以我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2691.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2709.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
光幾個土木工程來講土木工程本來是缺額最多後來我們就透過增資專業加給每個月給他三千還有他留任的一三五年都給他不同的金額還有那個工程獎金的部分把這些人拉上來 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2710.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2732.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
不過有一個事實我必須要跟委員報告政府不管再加多少錢我們不可能跟民間一模一樣因為當他這個景氣好的時候政府可以offer的價錢坦白講跟民間還是會有一點落差所以我們也在職場的友善各方面我們去做一些努力另外還有一個必須要跟委員報告的 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2733.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2753.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
就是因為80幾%的人要做原來100個人的事情所以我們第一個是檢討哪些事情可以不要做第二個檢討哪些事情可以透過流程簡化的方式或者引入人工智慧 減少人力 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2754.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2772.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
我也希望說所有的公務人員 尤其是都遵守最下巴謝謝 董事長因為你有在注意因為這個趨勢是往下走 那個缺額率是在提高嘛這個就是足以要趕快去做一個應對等一下我會跟您討論其中的一些制度 包括商調稍後我會跟您談商調的這個效率 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2773.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2797.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
人事長你看公務員缺額持續攀升那會有各種抱怨例如行政院秘書長張敦漢他就要求教撒等照三章回報輿情導致某一些在職的公務員他還要身兼社群小編大清朝起來要分類要收集輿情增加的工作量當然行政院說回應或了解掌握輿情是很重要的這個沒有人否認 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2798.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2809.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
但是因為在缺額的逐漸加重的情況之下這個額外的工作還是會讓在職人員抱怨那另外 女士長我還是請你不要忘記前年爆發的就前年發生的這個整個公務門體系的這個霸凌案是連連爆 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2816.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2836.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
而且官官相護 如今證明勞動部部分已經交由司法處理衛福部的部分 當時我也奪利很多衛福部部分 監察院糾正案也都成立了所以這些都不是個案 是整個公務體系整個公務體系整體的 除了薪資福利 整個公務體系我們覺得是走向瀕臨崩潰化的一些前兆我跟委員報告 我是比較樂觀 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2844.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2871.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
你比較樂觀我是比較樂觀因為我如果被關我就沒有站在這裡講話的一個餘地因為只有樂觀才能夠帶你所有公務人員往前衝所以剛才委員提到一個問題早上要去整理這一些新聞摘要我們現在也訓練同仁透過人工智慧又透過類似他直接去網路爬書然後再去做查證可以把整個作業時間可以縮短 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2873.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2891.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
事實上新公職的學習很重要不會做一件事你要用時期時代的做法他有可能要點眼睛我用新的有可能15分鐘我就做完了好 林市長那我想跟你談一下公職受益的事情讓你更加了解公職人力一旦流失對社會的影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2892.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2907.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
公職受益背負著動物健康食品安全還有公共衛生的這個責任但是去年我們爆發了這個非洲豬瘟的時候我們就看到公職受益大概沒有辦法無能為力為什麼人力實在不足啦那雖然公職受益 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2908.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2912.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
過去那個起薪尚可但實際上還是跟民間差很大加上業務範圍很廣因為他又要這個動物保跟防疫責任重拜託主席再給我幾分鐘謝謝你讓我認真準備的東西可以跟人事長討論一下那當然你這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2926.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2953.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
所以這樣等於變相鼓勵這個壽衣就往民間讓它換跑道我知道農業部有爭取你剛剛有提到這個不開業獎金你提到其他是專業家計但是也有人說這個新人必須整整撐住一整年才能領到一到三萬的這個獎金所以有人說這個獎金未必留得住人才當然任市長我就這個公職壽衣來看當然這不是單一農業部可以承擔的問題那你有沒有任何想法呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2955.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2971.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
其實我覺得委員你那些信息就是說我們只要針對他有受益執照的不開業的他是一個月都給一萬到三萬每一個單一年所以他的金額你如果說比較資深的符合哪一個階級以上的金額就可以刪在老闆身上 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2971.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2974.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
人事長我們就繼續觀看因為非洲豬運讓我們知道獸醫公職獸醫是非常重要非常重要這點我也很重視謝謝人事長人事長請你再看這個圖這個圖是前高雄市議員是曾經在當任基層公務員的林于凱跟我談因為有不少公務員在他在服務這個議員的時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2992.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
2997.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
向他反映 讓我非常驚訝我先來請教這個任市長現在有三務公務員想要彼此商調到對方單位A本來在台北市政府任職那B是在台中市政府 C是在高雄市政府那我們現在先假設他們都是社會局員工好了那B想要到台北社會局那必須等到台北社會局開缺出來那A要到高雄也是要等到高雄市政府開缺出來那C要到台中也是一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3020.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3032.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
那當然這個就是等他對方政府都開缺出來然後這邊同意放人那他們才能去報到我認為當然這個程序都不能免但是我請教任市長您覺得這個過程要多久 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3033.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3061.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
我跟委員說 你看這樣多久我們目前 我們是有一個市球人 但是委員你說的那個我們是一個平台 就是我們會建一個平台 年底以前會好就是你說的那個 大家的平台去找就對了就看哪裡有缺 大家互相資訊的透明化會比以前更我還在想說 您心中合理的這個商標完成的時間是多少您覺得合理比較多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3061.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3064.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
越近越好啊你知道最賣的這個多久了嗎看那個有開嗎 你如果說消洪的他們是商調啦 同職商調商調一般我們的基調是不會的 我請問三位 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3077.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3091.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
拜託耶 這件三年啦我找資料給你好了 三年喔我正要問你 我就等你這個答案喔你認為三個月可以辦完 但是這個案子是三年完成啊三年很漫長啊 我們用人生來看三年很短但從職業生涯來看 三年就等了 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3095.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3098.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
最後一個建議啦我認為這個是教師體系他們已經有所謂的教師借聘他縣市的服務我知道你剛剛也有提到想要這樣做那頭片往上是官方建立這很重要官方建立他希望加速整個商調的速度 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3116.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3126.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
那類似的做法在公務體系如果我沒有錯的話現在只有警察跟消防有跟進我認為人事行政總署可以參考教育部建立這個系統先試辦同性質的公務員商調例如一條邊人事一條邊人事公務員政風一條邊政風公務員還有審計一條邊審計公務員 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3135.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3145.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
同質的我們是不是先盡快改善那不同性質我知道要克服很多問題需要多一點時間所以人事審計跟政風的這個商調是否可以優先來示範 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3150.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3154.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
因為這個每個人遷居啦 結婚啦 或照顧老小難免要需要相調 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3166.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3169.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
我們議事錄之前已經宣讀完畢 尚未確定現在先確定議事錄請問上次會議議事錄有沒有錯誤跟遺漏的地方沒有的話我們議事錄就確定接下來我們請本委員會最帥的林沛翔委員來詢答 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3196.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3210.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
好 謝謝主席有請人事長請人事長等一下 人事長 你是也要監督 也要關心你你是肩背還是運動有有有 有瑕疵這樣好 要補充 奇怪怎麼突然變瘦了好 人事長早 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3221.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3239.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
今天我要談的其實跟陳昭之委員的主題是很像的其實大家心裡都知道但是不願意正式地問題我們的公務體系其實正在慢慢地失血不是一天不是一年而是長期性結構性的失血我先講一句比較白話的啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3240.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3269.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
現在很多年輕人對公務員的運向已經不是從鐵飯碗開始而是變成所謂的高壓鍋也就是說進去是悶著做做久了就想跑這件事情如果剛照人事長講的說行政院覺得還是個人選擇那就太過樂觀了我想先問第一個最基本的問題立法院已經通過三讀的軍人加薪警消人士退休條例現在執行的狀況是什麼呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3271.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3287.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
我在回答這個問題之前我先跟委員報告我們上一年114年有針對國防部還有海委會的志願役他的志願役加級還有戰鬥加級我們行政院已經 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3288.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3310.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
提了171億的增額那針對錦銷它的刑事加成 危老加成的部分我們也增加了31億這是在上一年跟今年我想問接下來我的問題我們看到狀況其實很簡單 權序部說行政院沒編預算行政院又說整體財政要考量簡單一句話 法律過了 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3312.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3330.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
政府還在觀望那我也想請教人事總署行政院到底會不會依法編列預算呢還是現在的標準是法律可以選擇性執行如果今天一個依法三讀通過總統公布的法律都能夠拖都可以不做那麼請問你認為給基層公務人員傳達的訊息是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3336.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3363.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
我想政府本來就是依法行政當法律通過的時候因為行政院他目前認為這兩個有執行上的一些疑慮的他還在申請事件當中市長我們就是今天是理性的討論啦老實說這個給基層公務員傳達的訊息就是說你們的權益是看政府的心情制度不是保障而是參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3364.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3391.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
那請問現在這樣的制度一般的年輕人會願意進來嗎我想可能委員有一點誤解事實上政府該給的權益這一定要做的然後我們要求我們同仁要盡的義務這也是一個相對的這就是現在我要講到第二個問題了啦老實說現在公務體系有個非常明顯的現象喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3392.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3420.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
越年輕越優秀越有選擇的人流失越快其實以人才的能力的發揮來講這不見得全然是壞事這代表他們有能力選擇離開但是真正應該擔心的是為什麼留下來的人變成沒有選擇的人我就想請教我們市長去年到今年離職人數有多少新進報考人數有多少有沒有下降的趨勢呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3422.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3449.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
報考人數是有下降可是我們現在的離職率大概都維持在大概1.1%左右因為這裡面有辭職裡面還有包含退休因為他的定義現在前訓部統計出來的那個集合那個集合比較大有些是辭職嘛有些退休有些是轉職有些轉職之後他再重考他會有很多的PATENT請就教人市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3450.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3467.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
你們的對策是什麼我指的不是口號不是言議中而是已經可以執行的方案不要說一天到晚我們說聽到跨部會溝通啦持續監禁啦因為基層的狀況是人已經走了不會等你繼續監禁啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3469.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3490.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
我利用這個機會也跟委員報告一下為什麼我們這兩年花很多的effort在推人工智慧的原因就是說我們還是發現有少數幾個機關它的作業模式是有一點類似石器時代的做法可是2000年那個數位世代的年輕人進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3493.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3520.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
2000年出生的數位延伸帶出來到現在26歲他已經進到公務職場結果他當他進到公務職場看到我們現有的少部分機關他的作業方式還是古時候handmade的這個方式他文化上會有衝擊他沒有辦法調適所以待幾個月以後他會解決問題的方法責任都應該放在AI身上而不是因為人數不夠是這樣講嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3521.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3549.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
AI可以幫我們解決不少的問題可是沒有辦法幫我們解決所有的問題好 那我想請問我們人事總署老師某個程度上我也覺得有點尷尬就是說我們每次遇到任何問題我們就說責任誰該負責但是現在的狀況是制度問題推給全序部預算問題推給行政院用人問題說是各機關單位那變成是說有一個很奇怪的現象問題是明確的大家這些問題只要 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3551.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3575.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
露出來在媒體上或者我們感覺到的問題都是明確而且存在的對我們國家是一個clear and present danger是我們國家一個明顯而且很清楚的一個威脅但是問題很明確沒有一個單位負責我就想請教人事總署你們到底是政策規劃者還是所謂的這個轉接的窗口甚至這樣講你們到底是總管還是總機啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3578.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3589.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
我們在整個行政院人事的組織言語片式上我們是總管法規部分是在考試院那裡法規的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3590.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3616.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
老師講如果只是轉公文那真的AI都可以做不是只有轉公文因為我們要去訂整個國家治理的一些人力的Policy如果是總管那其實你們如果是政策中樞那今天公務體系的人才流失你們就不能只做統計而是要負責方法解決就好像如果災情來了你們不能只是來報告災情而是要實質上的救災防災 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3618.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3638.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
基層的崩壞這不是新聞是日常最後我們都講一個大家都知道但是很少人敢正面講的問題基層公務人員超累業務量過高人力長期不足責任無限上綱那尤其像說消防人員這種職務我想全台灣都在缺 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3639.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3653.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
那高風險高工時高壓力可是人力卻長期補不起來我就想請問人事總署不足額的權力缺口你們具體的補強機制是什麼是加班補人還是用熱血去撐 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3654.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3675.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
我跟委員報告消防署他在107年到117年他有提一個6千人的增援計畫到今年為止已經增加5千多人現在實際的情況我跟委員報告因為整個消防能源的專業訓練基本上快要兩年訓練完以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3677.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3699.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
它支援各個縣市地方的消防局事實上它需要有一個比較長時間的事實上之前我們對消防能力的補足我們也百分之百的支持因為它對整個社會的安全很重要就是把現在的模式把它外面講一層你們想要做的但現在的模式很簡單缺人 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3700.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3726.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
不夠現在人力撐撐不住離職然後更缺人這種叫什麼這種不叫管理這就叫 vicious cycle這叫惡性循環這叫慢性放棄我認為說今天我們講的所有的問題其實都指向一件事我們政府現在有沒有把公務體系把它當成一個需要經營的人才系統還是可以把它變成一直一個可以一直消耗的行政工具呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3726.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3754.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
年輕人當然會離開 甚至一剛開始就不進來以前大家的想法真是鐵飯碗 現在變高壓鍋的時候我想沒有人會願意進來在這種環境之下這種招不保戲 責任不明確 然後命令也不清楚這種情況不會有人想進來的最後這邊我講一句比較重的啦當公務體系出現斷層的時候影響的不只是公務員 而是整個國家的治理能力喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3755.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3784.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
這件事這個我非常同意我要求人事總署呢不要再給方向不要再給原則請提出時間表跟具體措施跟可檢驗的成果不然再過幾年人事長不好意思我請教一下你還有幾年退休隨時可以退休那如果你一退休之後下一個人事長再馬上上來隨時可以退下一個人事長再上來也馬上隨時可以退那最後再過幾年我們司法法治委員會連質詢的人搞不好都不夠用了有沒有可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3785.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3813.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
不會啦 要樂觀一點啦我個人很想樂觀我個人一向是不做任何預設立場就事論事的人但是我現在看到整個公務洗戲看到整個基層公務員的方法這個出待方式我實在樂觀不起來我希望說人事總署把我們今天的質詢好好回去把他時間表 具體措施跟可檢驗結果拿出來這樣子不是給我們國會議員看而已而是給全社會大眾知道說我們政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3814.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3834.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
對於我們的公務體系對我們的軍公教警消是有想法的是有保障的是願意跟我們一起承擔覺得這國家治理很重要的好不好謝謝好 謝謝林沛翔委員的詢談那個質詢很棒接下來請我們范雲委員來質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3843.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3847.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
好 謝謝昭緯還有請我們喝咖啡有請那個蘇仁市長來 請仁市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3853.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3868.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
蘇人事長早安因為我在擔任立委前就是教師大學老師所以長期關心教育的議題今天是第一次跟您質詢從今天跟未來我都會針對這題持續追蹤就是中小學教師荒我認為人事總署責無旁貸為什麼這樣講人事長你可以看一下這邊這個是師資培育統計年報裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3882.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3903.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
這個所謂的正式教師離職人數就是還沒有到退休的就離職人數一直持續上升從109學年度到我現在的資料是到113學年度五年增加了四成而且這裡面你可以看到國小、國中、高中這三項國小的離職人數特別多 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3904.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3928.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
那這個部分呢在下一頁喔那你可以看到根據也是教育部的相關的統計聯合報還報導過這所有的離職教師的年齡結構是40到50歲也就是終身帶流失的最嚴重他最可能還沒有到退休就離職那我覺得這是非常可惜的因為他如果從20幾歲開始當老師那這其實是黃金的10年 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3933.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3955.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
40到50歲可是這個時候我們國家的教育的第一線卻有這麼多的老師中生代老師離職但是更嚴重的是這邊這個是教育部的資料但是我的辦公室又進一步整理您看一下如果後面有人補上來也許問題就不嚴重了可是你看到這邊我們整理的從106年到112年 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3959.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3985.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
師資儲備人員三年內參加公立學校教師甄選的比例那個人事長你看一下從106年的42.8%到112年31.25%本來就很多人就不考了他已經被培訓完畢其實是有花了很多的師資培育的資源可是 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3986.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4000.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
這幾年內降了四分之一願意報考的也就是說他有教師證合格但是願意報考的教徵不擔任不考連考都不去考三年內考一次就算有去考佔了七成 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4001.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4017.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
所以就是你新生代教師有教師證願意報考教徵的比例越來越低後面沒有補上來然後中間又離職中生代又離職還有更嚴重的是退休潮又要到了 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4019.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4033.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
鄭英耀部長他分析過去有第一波退休潮是民國90年左右因為我們57年的時候國民教育就是推動9年義務教育那可是以30年為一個世代因為當時補了一批嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4035.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4060.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
這個下一波的退休潮在民國120年耶就是五年後耶所以如果現在不補的話那其實校園的教師荒的問題會越來越嚴重因為中生代還沒有退休就提前離職新生代教師拒絕投入退休潮在五年後也就是2031年就要發生了大規模30年一次的這個退休潮 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4061.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4090.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
那我想請問人事長您可以看一下我在兩年前就開始關心教師荒的議題左邊這個照片是2024年9月我跟三大教師團體跟家長協會一起就提醒大家有全台教師荒2024年10月當年的10月我總質詢的時候卓院長當天坎然承諾會合理調整人跟錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4091.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4115.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
結果呢 沒有看到下文 我又去問教育部長部長呢 他說他只能夠開出這個行政副組長就是一個兼職的解方你看一下 老師當然不會只有一個是人士喔可是你看一下 這是親子天下他的幸福感調查為什麼老師覺得不幸福 當老師不好 年輕人為什麼不當 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4116.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4124.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
這五大理由中其中的一個行政繁重偏離教學專業是其中很重要的原因 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4126.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4147.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
那我也要跟人事長說,教育部真的有在努力,教育部努力了,從原本說加級過低,他提高加級,雖然錢還不夠高,但是有努力,每個月一千到兩千。那增設行政副組長是他提出來的,可是行政副組長也是教師要兼任行政職啊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4149.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4170.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
那我問教育部長為什麼只能降著兼行政職他們都說是你們人事總署這邊沒有辦法提供協助那我想跟人事總署講你當然就是說緊縮不願意增聘我們可以理解您為國家在節省資源可是你看一下別的國家怎麼面對教育現場的議題因為這個教育議題在各國都會發生 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4175.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4183.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
包含世代包含數位剛剛也提到數位的世代英國的做法2025年名列23項教師不應負責的行政事務那如果照英國這樣做的話那行政事務是誰做日本當然有人做 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4192.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4217.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
設置教師業務支援員協助行政數目增設行政專員叫做教師業務支援員協助老師所以行政工作只是減項目不夠 兼職還不夠真的需要畫一個邊界增聘如果就英國跟日本的經驗的話兼聘專職的行政人員在校園中協助才是解方 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4218.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4247.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
就是那這件事情絕對需要這邊我們辦公室把英國的政府網站相關的資料都有附在這邊您有興趣可以看校園行政專職化為什麼我今天要來質詢您因為教育部給我的總質詢那個院長答應的事情可是這裡面都講到其中職員員額受到總員額法的控管考量行政專職化還涉及相關法規的修正等 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4248.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4255.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
所以教育部有心可是相關的規定跟這個種元額法都不支持那這不就是人種的職責嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4258.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4278.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
所以呢 我想您比我更了解 原額總量限制的問題那教育部遇到這個困難 那我現在幫忙算一下如果我們全國3600多所國中小 假如我們先算寬一點每間學校多聘兩個行政原額 就是多7200人那你這個機關原額總數最高限為160900人 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4284.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4303.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
那我們當然知道對你來講每一個元額都很珍貴可是我要講的是下一代的教育難道不就是我們為國家的一個投資嗎那下一代沒有人願意當老師然後最後一直都是不管是代理教師或是等等那老師不斷的更換那對我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4304.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4326.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
不管是家長或是我們下一代的公民都不是一件好事啦所以人總是不是可以針對這個源而提出解放所以那個那個我們這個蘇人事長到目前為止您有沒有感受到就是教育部的焦慮然後得不到你們的支持那卓院長當場承諾顯然人事總處還是覺得教育的議題不值得 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4331.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4356.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
您在就是援俄方面就是協助那您怎麼怎麼回應我們今天的這個呼聲呢我想還是非常謝謝委員給我這個說明的一個機會事實上在整個中央援俄的部分在教育部端還有1463位如果是用到地方政府的援俄的部分事實上這一部分我們不管所以我們過去 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4359.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4381.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
幾年來一直在跟教育部還有他的國教署我們有做非常多次的一個溝通就是他一定是要跟地方政府做好溝通因為他增加了這個延額很多是地方政府他要來cover那地方政府要來cover他會有增加他的一個財務的支出這種要做好溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4382.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4403.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
第二個剛才委員一開始提到的行政減量事實上行政減量的部分教育部也一直在努力事實上好像發生一件事情以後大家就事情就是用家法在做對事情越來越多我們現在不管是霸凌各種東西一個減法一個是整合 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4403.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4424.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
那現在我們看到的行政工作都是加法可是人員沒有增加嘛據說您剛講的是說是中央跟地方好像是說教育部沒做好這跟教育部給我的回應不一樣欸他說是職員員額受到總員額法的控管因為我跟委員報告他目前的員額用完了以後我們會按照他整個業務需求來予以協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4431.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4459.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
因為當你口袋還有1463的時候你應該先用完而不是先去帶5000塊來這裡應該先用好那我幫您算一下今天如果每個學校增加兩個行政員額的話7200個人他怎麼可能這一全國有3600多所教育部要公平嗎你說他有1400個名額他連每個學校都分不到一個他當然就是說是0.5你們來兼任啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4461.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4476.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
它裡面support應該有八九成都在地方你要它用完那它怎麼分給3600個學校一個學校一個都用不到啊這個緣額是在地方地方我們現在沒有去管地方的這個緣額的部分所以跟地方緣額也很緊嘛 教育部如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4479.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4494.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
因為時間到了我想聽起來你這邊是說是教育部那教育部說是人事總署不管是誰請人事總署跟教育部合作就行政專職化的議題研議好嗎 研議給我一個你們兩邊都同意的書面報告可以嗎兩個月內我會繼續追這個議題謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4504.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4514.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
好 謝謝范雲委員的質詢 接下來請審發會委員詢答范雲你有空嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4549.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4554.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
主席我們請人事長委員長人事長早安今天針對我們人事行政總署的書面業務報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4569.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4595.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
我大概看了裡面有一個我個人比較關注的問題來這裡就教於人事長我們在這個書面報告裡面我們有關於近期推動的重要業務成果裡面第五項的營造優實職場建構健康安全環境裡面最重要的一個協同公務人員保障協同保訓會完備職場霸凌防治及申訴處理機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4598.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4614.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
這個部分是列為你們的近期推動的重要業務成果所以這個事實上在公務人員的職場霸凌防治的部分我們人事單位其實扮演 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4615.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4640.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
其實是一個執行單位,是最重要的執行單位按照我們去年修正的公務人員保障法還有去年修正的公務人員執行植物安全衛生防護辦法、安慰辦法這個裡面,大概申訴機關是保訓會但是其他的這些執行,大概都是人事單位這是我們人事單位,由我們人事總署來總管 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4641.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4671.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
那這個部分我就是看我們我就仔細看說我們人種到底在這裡面在這個職場霸凌裡面我們做了什麼重要的是重大的成果我就看你們書面報告結果你們的書面報告裡面說你們的重大成果就是這個有關於這個訂定公務人員執行職務遭受職場霸凌的這個防治處理原則你們訂立這個防治處理原則這是第一個重大成果 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4672.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4701.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
第二個重大成果就是本處持續協助機關落實執行持續協助各機關落實執行也就是說我們從修法去年修法那今年1月9號開始實施今年實施到現在看起來整個我們這些相關的這個職場霸凌公務人員職場霸凌相關的這些職場霸凌防治的工作其實都是落實在各個機關裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4703.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4732.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
就是高度依賴各個機關自己自己來自行處理啦按照你們的辦法就是基本上就是各個機關自行處理了你們人總只負責宣導跟這個關心他的這個協助各個機關的這個落實執行也就是說我們目前人總並沒有扮演一個本來我認為在這個機制裡面人總應該扮演的重要角色就是一個跨機關的一個申訴跟追蹤的平台我認為這是應該人總要扮演 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4734.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4747.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
我能不能稍微說明一下,事實上是從113年的12月13號一開始公務人員保障法還有安慰辦法還沒有修正,我們累計到今年228 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4752.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4781.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
我們有一個匯總平台現在總共有859件剛才委員指教的第一個我們有第一個遵循的辦法因為這一套標準撒下去是在所有中央地方還有很多小單位的人事單位我們如果沒有第一個遊戲規則可操作性的遊戲規則人事人員碰到這個霸凌不知道要怎麼處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4782.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4809.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
所以我們要定這個遊戲規則原則這些我都有啊 我也有看過問題是現在還是實際上還是高度依賴各個機關自己各個機關它自己去執行了所以我們人種啊你們這個機關有沒有落實在執行事實上你們現在也沒有什麼樣的機制沒有什麼統計 沒有什麼公開的制度來監督到底各個機關有沒有落實執行這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4811.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4824.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
這個分兩個部分一個是保訓會他每一年會去督導一次另外我們有要求所有的我們派在各個縣市人士 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4824.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4829.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
就按照這個公務人員執行這個安全衛生辦法跟按照安慰辦法裡面的第四條 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4844.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4867.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
第四條他就規定說主管機關第五條他說各機關應該組成安全衛生防護委員會應組成第四條就是說主管機關得聘各機關得這個是得成立諮詢會諮詢會是得成立但是有關於安全衛生防護委員會這是應成立 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4868.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4878.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
請問人事總署現在各機關是不是全部每一個全國每一個機關都已經成立了已經依照這個安慰辦法第五條成立了防護委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4882.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4898.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
保訓會他每一年都會去調查他現在給我們的資料全部都有成立啊全部都成立了嗎對 都有成立啊因成立的 中央各部會跟地方機關因成立的一定要有成立喔 你拿到的主要跟我拿到的不一樣喔欸 保訓會給完的啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4900.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4927.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
全部全國各中央部會跟地方機關都已經設立了諮詢會或者是跟這個防護委員會嗎我們有建立全國性我們人種自己啦因成立的都有成立因為他是法令規定的而且保証會他都有去調查我拿到保証會資料沒有全部都有成立為什麼保証會給你們資料是全部都已經成立了 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4928.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4957.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
我們會後再補充一些資料給委員對於未沒有按照規定成立的你現在講說全部都成立了你回去了解看看以我從保訓會內掌握的資料是沒有全部成立但是未依規定設立長期運作機關的現在也沒有什麼追蹤機制也沒有什麼改進的期限都沒有這個部分請我們人事總署要掌握好不好好那這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4959.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4977.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
好這個職場霸凌這部分你會後你要去掌握以我的了解這個應該是沒有全部成立的那接下來我另外一個也是我關心的一個重要問題因為我們在這個我們人事總署去年也曾經發過一個新聞稿有關於這個公務人員到中國 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4982.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4990.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
的這個規範在這個規定中國人到中國的這個規範裡面我們人事總署扮演什麼樣的職責負責哪些部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4991.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5015.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
有關於管制公務人員到中國的這個裡面我們人事總署扮演什麼樣的角色我們配合陸委會我們有通告全國的人事主管機關就按照陸委會給我們的一個指令該去到大陸或是澳門或是香港無論是入境或是過境這些都一定要登陸 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5016.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5033.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
然後也要事先核准然後不同層級的11值等以上的要經過移民署有關這個問題有很多不同的權責機關陸委會有權責內政部也有法務部也有我們人事總署也是重要的一個管制單位權責單位這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5039.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5050.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
去年的五月二十一號監察院有一個有關近十年違法附中公務人員的一個調查報告這個調查報告任市長有沒有看過沒有回覆,你有沒有看過他裡面統計啦,統計近十年近十年違規前往中國的勢力 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5068.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5094.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
這個高階文官有55人,基層文官有263人加起來是318人而且在調查報告裡面就直接指出說事實上這個只是有統計的事實上應該還有其他的黑數因為按照我們現在的規定在監察院的這個糾正文裡面,他就直接說有黑數除了這318人以外,另外還有黑數 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5095.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5098.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
那這部分他也指出說我們這個人事總署在這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5101.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5128.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
這個附中的這個管理權責的機關的分工裡面我們人事總署轄管各機關人事人員辦理公務員附中國的這個法規宣導法規宣導還有到中國的申請的審核也是我們人事總署來負責的那這個報送移民署的這個公務員的附入的這個線上申請系統的審查也是我們人事總署的 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5132.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5138.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
然後有關違法違規赴中國案件的行政懲處也是我們總署對不對行政懲處對懲處是你們好我現在就先講懲處啦我剛才講的這是我們黑數我們就再不討論我們光以監察院查出來是318人這318人的懲處齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5156.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5184.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
我這裡有列一個表有關於這個到底這個這個懲處的結果是怎麼樣你們這裡面有寄大過一次的很少啦 寄大過一次的寄過兩次的三個寄大過一次五個寄過一次寄過兩次 十一個寄過一次其他的申戒申戒兩次 申戒一次的最多然後再來 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5186.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5215.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
履歷純紀到履歷純紀這個就已經幾乎是最輕的處分了但是其實除了這個履歷純紀以外你們還有很多是用口頭警告而已啦有很多要違規附中之後最後結果你們的懲處就是口頭警告對不對這個之前啦我們現在開始去委員會去委員會要問的叫什麼規定什麼規定什麼規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5217.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5242.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
你說所謂新的規定是甚麼?第一屆齁,第三屆,兩屆,第三屆,二屆,三屆你說對今年當時開始?今年,也是你們要等到今年七月才要開始因為因為新的規定,我就叫新的規定我們會加強宣導,而且我們會尊重我們人事人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5247.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5273.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
你們7月1號要統一這個懲處標準這很好 這就是我今天的訴求我就認為你們應該要統一這樣子懲處標準現在的懲處標準太不一致了有的機關給你寄過 有的可以寄申誡 有的給你履歷存寄有的甚至只有口頭警告那不只是輕重不一啊同樣一個人他數次違規 他去好幾趟到底是一罰還是累罰 這個在各個機關也都不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5275.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5302.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
這樣子你在各個機關處理裡面有一個統一的標準最後的結果就是造成你這個懲處的威信蕩然無存所以今天7月1號之後的規定請你們一份資料給我辦公室好不好我就是希望說能夠統一這樣子的懲處規定這是我們人事總署在這裡面讓違規赴中國的這些公務人員管制我們人事總署裡面最重要的職責以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5303.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5307.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
謝謝省發會委員的質詢 人事長請會下一位是張雅玲委員質詢OK應該都是要問人事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5333.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5337.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
現在主席我們請那個人事長好有請人事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5340.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5366.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
委員早早安我想在上個週的這個考試院質詢的時候其實我有提到就是說希望考試院可以跟人事總署一起來討論育兒友善的政策的推動那我想問一個問題就是說我們不管是在信工法也好或是我們其實在這個107年我們也訂了一個人事行政總署的書函就是重申了這樣子的一個規定但是事實上我想這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5367.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5394.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
人事長應該也可以從我右邊的這個表可以看到說我們實際上申請未滿三歲的子女申請減少工時的時間的一個狀況去年的資料只有27個男性45位女性總人數在我們這麼大的一個公務人員的有一萬有大概一萬八千多名的這個公務校人員領取生育補助來推估我們這個人數上面我不曉得說人事長覺得這樣子的一個數字你滿意嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5395.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5410.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
我跟委員說明一下因為我們現在公務人員他可以請休假、試假而且都是百小時申請的事實上很多公務人員他每一年的休假跟試病假的時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5411.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5424.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
日數都很多啦大部分他們都會去清用休假或暑假去用到信工房每天少一小時這個比較少所以就如同我們基礎資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5428.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5442.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
因為你如果簽一條簽 那要扣薪水啦那你如果休假 暑假 那是不用啦應該是沒有薪水吧 有人要扣薪水沒有 那就沒薪水好那就沒薪水 那你如果休假 暑假 你的卡沒有再一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5443.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5457.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
那我請教董事長你知道有多少有小孩的公務人員他是因為接送需求而去請了你剛剛說的那種可能自己的休假我們有瞭解嗎接送小孩接近72% |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5462.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5481.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
對72%所以表示說這個需求是存在的但是因為我們也有遇到說有公務員來講說他希望可以彈性工時去挪移他總時數不變去挪移他的時數可是基本上也是被拒絕那或者是說應該不會這個就是存在 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5482.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5506.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
這個就是存在 這樣 你的資料給我我來瞭解看哪些機關好 但是我想但是我想就是說我們是不是可以直接去設立一個獨立的申訴管道就是說人事長這邊來設立一個獨立的申訴管道如果他今天遇到不管他要使用性供法這個也好他甘願扣薪水也好或是他使用彈性供時也好他遇到了什麼樣子的狀況我們是不是可以讓他可以去申訴這樣子你們就會有更清楚的一個資料可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5513.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5539.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
那個按照保障碗的規定是可以的可以嗎好 那我想我們就設立這個吧就像之前我們其實在之前2024年的時候這個勞發署的這個霸凌案之後嘛然後後續大家就開始做了很多的內部的申訴才讓很多真正過去以前的黑訴可以去存在所以我也希望就是說我們大概什麼時候可以設立這樣子的獨立申訴管道需要多久時間規劃呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5541.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5556.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
我現有的保障法就可以了我們就加上先導委的人有可能不知道不知道要去對他申訴我們再透過我們內部的群組去轉資所有的 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5556.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5582.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
好那這部分請加強宣導好不好當他們遇到有困難的時候他們真正的可以讓你們知道他們的需要跟困境在哪裡那再來另外一個部分就是說居家辦公的規範我知道之前我們有申請過事辦我們有做過事辦人事總署這邊有做過事辦但是這個結果據我們所了解實際申請的人數也是非常少也是只有個位數那我只是想請教任市長我們是否可以來試試看 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5583.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5591.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
我們有沒有去了解過有多少人有需要遠距辦公這樣子的需求呢我們有沒有去做這樣子的了解我了解是整理大概270位270位裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5597.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5614.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
我也是照顧孩子我也照顧有需要的大人然後還有不少部分是因為一般性身體的有一些問題有一些癌症他做化療他在家裡事實上我們一年大概270位事實上連我們人種 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5615.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5637.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
我們都有一個科長喔 主管喔 他也是天灑各為主不是因為他主管 他就不能申請 還是一樣讓他在家裡照顧小孩非常非常好喔 因為我想這個對於我們現在所謂的三明治世代有非常強大的需要所以我們是不是可以把這個事辦要點提升成為正式實行要點呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5640.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5649.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
112年就已經有發布了可是那是事半喔這是事半居家事半的是在疫情COVID的時候是事半在112的時候是正式我們有正式發行喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5650.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5673.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
有正式 所以這已經是一個正式的居公辦 對對 112年好 那謝謝 謝謝那再來我想問一下 我想這幾天非常非常紅就是有關於天下雜誌的報導就是人事費佔GDP的比例大概是5.9可是我們相較於OECD國家其實是偏低的所以這某種程度上面已經代表說我們現在的公共量能其實已經達到一個非常非常緊繃的狀況再來就是113年的審計部報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5676.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5699.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
我們的第一類元額已經達到了法定元額的上限幾乎是95%那另外一份報告也指出我們的多元人力創下新高也就是說我們在正式元額無法增加的狀況之下我們用了很多多元人力來去支持整個政府的一個運作那我也想請教就是說因為我們在總元額法在99年制定的時候當時的法定總預算是一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5700.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5711.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
7兆 108年是1.9兆可是我们现在已经到了3兆我们现在也增加了非常多的法定业务像是长照也好或者是儿少保护等等的 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5712.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5742.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
今年百億圓夢基金我們的業務量其實是明顯增加可是我們的員額並沒有因此而調整那相對於其他的澳洲我們看了一下挪威他們整體預算規模跟台灣很接近可是他們的公務人員大概是90萬人那澳洲這個人數規模跟我們很相近的那他的人力規模如果我們是廣義來說也達到了130萬人所以我覺得我們現在這個員額上面是有必要做一個檢討那我不曉得說我們是不是有針對這個議題上面去做一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5743.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5761.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
跟國家各國的一個比較呢事實上委員這個問題非常好我跟委員再說明一下總顏額他是框的一個一個大的pool那裡面我們事實上是可以做移動可是我們現在必須要考慮到幾個問題第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5764.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5788.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
現在的出生率低你光我言而一般人還是進不來不願意進來第二個很重要的就是我一直在強調的每一個政府機關的作業流程一定要去改你把複雜的事情可以簡化你讓新進的同仁他願意進到公部門不然當他進到公部門來以後他發現我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5789.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5809.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
做事請的方法跟他2000年出生的數位延伸帶他的認知落差會很大他沒有辦法待在那種新的環境所以工作流程的改變也是很重要第三個跟待遇有關的那我們大概下個月我會再跟行政院報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5810.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5823.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
再去爭取從加擠方面再增加待遇因為整個我們坦白講這兩年經濟發展非常好坦白說待遇是一個很實質的問題我們根本沒有辦法跟市場做競爭這個我們同時也在努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5828.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5853.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
但是我想你剛剛有提到一個非常重要的重點就是說我們的整個工作方式甚至可能是文化跟我們現在所謂的先行年之後出生的年輕人來說是有很大的落差那我也想請教一下任市長您對於這樣子的一個議題你發現了我們要做什麼樣子的一個精進或調整除了工作方法我想公務體系的一個文化對大家來說也是一個需要調整的方向或者是還有其他 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5854.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5870.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
第一個像我們就是鼓勵我們同仁要建構允許換臭的文化允許換臭的文化讓他敢去創新還有我們去善用AI的工具像我們現在開會所有的會議紀錄大概開完會半個小時一定會到我這裡來 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5871.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5891.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
我們會用那個Meeting Inc的這些軟體因為這樣可以大幅縮短時間很多東西事實上可以節省節省很多時間事實上我們在新聞稿的撰寫我們也是應用類似這樣還有對一些資料分析我們也是透過Notebook、LOM的方式來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5892.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5910.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
好 了解 我這樣聽起來因為我剛剛看你們的報告也有講到非常多用AI的但是因為AI今天可能不是我討論的主要的重點但是我想我們會後可以約一個時間如何的落實AI在這個人事的這個領域上面但是我想回到剛剛的那一題上面整個辦公整個公務人員其實真的是過勞 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5912.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5928.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
我想再講這件事情就是說我們可以看到源而平建這件事情我們有很多公務員離職的其實因為他工作負荷實在是太重了其實這是剛剛董事長沒有講到的地方工作越來越多累積到他個人身上他自己撐不住就選擇離職而這樣子的狀況是不斷的輪迴一直持續的發生 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5932.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5946.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
所以我還是覺得說我們現在的元額太少也是一個問題那如何聘到更好的人除了待遇之外公務文化也應該要去做一點調整那再來就是說我們在那個總元額法第九條有講說我們每一年要做我們定期要做一次元額的評鑑 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5948.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5965.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
抱歉再借一點時間但是我自己看了一下過去的幾次的源而平建的結果會發現我們的內容其實高度的重複評論的結果評鑑的結果也是大同小異所以我想請教我們有沒有任何一個機關因為我們做了源而平建而得到了大量的源而調整嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5967.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5985.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
我跟委員報告一下,事實上我們從99年一直到現在的嚴格評鑑每兩年一次的嚴格評鑑,我們一直在優化整個評鑑的內容我們最近這四到六年,我們focus是在業務流程的簡化,還有跨機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5987.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6001.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
的合作因為政府機關每一個政府機關都做了很多的服務這些資料如果整合的話可以讓我們的流程更加的順暢我了解但是我想我的重點其實是說我們今天做援和評鑑就是希望有一些檢討或精進嘛但是我們做這件事情到底有沒有真正帶來實際上的改變 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6004.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6024.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
這個聽起來我聽到有一些回饋都是說每次評鑑其實都是做白工啦那根本就是最後就是他很忙可是問題上沒有真正的具體的改變了什麼所以我們是不是可以在原而評鑑的制度上有一個檢討呢讓我們的評鑑結果可以真正反映在原而調整上 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6025.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6046.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
我跟委員報告就是我們最近做了一個流程改造然後我們會請相關領域專家進來第三個這是我最近拜託審計部因為他有數位審計廳請他一起進來跟我們co-work因為從審計的角度不許行政機關的 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6047.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6058.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
從源頭數位化由層簡化這個效果最好我們是跨機關的在合作我們希望透過這樣的機制讓整個言語評鑑更加的有效率 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6059.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6077.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
那這樣子好不好因為時間已經到了我想是不是可以請市長這邊提供給我們一個你們對於援和評鑑的精進做法包含你剛剛說到審計部的部分還有我們如何讓人可以真正的留下來這個援和的檢討上面是不是可以提供一個檢討報告給我們好不好好謝謝好 袁市長請回謝謝張雅玲委員的質詢再我們請莊瑞雄召委質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6092.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6095.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
謝謝主席有請我們蘇仁市長有請蘇仁市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6100.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6125.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
人事長你這樣瘦幾公斤?141412公斤喔?14啦你看我一陣子沒看到你一年來我看你這樣瘦一下沒給你關心一下要補充耶好啦我本來想說你早已運動耶要保重這個身體健康還是最重要的但是有幾個問題要來就叫人事長了就是說上個禮拜我們司法法治委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6128.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6151.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
翁昭偉在主持的時候 我特別來就教了法務部還有矯正署就是說朝野其實早就已經有共識了我上禮拜也特別請教了翁昭偉他說法務部矯正署的部分 他也去預算會大力的去支持就是說這個現在監所管理人員的一個介乎的一個津貼明顯就有點偏低 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6154.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6176.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
比如說你目前的標準來看的話你收容人你如果是兩千人以上的話是四千五那如果兩千人以下的四千間接的一個勤務的部分呢那就三千那來看一下這個整個行政流程的一個時間軸啊就在去年五月五號的時候呢華部剿政署去呈報了增資的一個專業加急表的調整案 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6177.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6196.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
那到6月13號也很快法務部就轉給行政院了那10月13號啊人事行政總署你們就函附這個法務部15個月他也很快一個禮拜後法務部再請矯正署去做補充的一個修正可是啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6197.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6215.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
這樣一年了 一年了 還在原地打轉那上個禮拜 署長他也很坦白講啦 他說問題出在你們這裡啦說多次跟人事行政總署來溝通 沒有結果啦所以 最近的 上禮拜 還在這裡 在委員會喔拜託草野 大家 委員給你們 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6221.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6250.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
改道協助啦所以我在這個地方就要來請教任市長一個很具體的問題這個津貼到底是卡在哪一個關卡啦其實喔我稍微報告 它很重要的是它的借戶人力事實上它每一個人扮演的角色不一樣每一個監所他收的受刑人他的pattern也不一樣這是第一點嘛 我們希望說 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6252.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6265.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
從108年第一次調整快20年沒有調第一次調108年的時候是我協助他們去調的我也很清楚可是他們這一次把一些論述沒有講得很清楚其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6267.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6287.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
趙薇你大家不知道一個很兇的就是叫你說是借戶人力的需求loading很重結果他們現在有些監守是把借戶人力派去集團秘書單位行政作業行政作業叫你說應該是要簡化你的重點應該是借戶嘛結果你把借戶人力 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6288.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6315.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
移到去做那個秘書當局那是本末倒置的嘛那其實我是覺得他們內部要好要去檢討那個你要去加強你的政府人力你看那個設備給民、人你要怎麼分區管理來強化你的監守管理的安全性應該是要做這個要吃飯啦結果他們那個就是有一點點的吃低低沒辦法啦高我吃得很貴啦聽到有啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6317.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6340.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
所以這個問題就卡在本來要養豬 你的比喻就是這樣這意思就是說要真正從事介護的人員的啦 給他津貼啦那實際上呢 他就把這樣的該給這一份給予的地方就變成沒有去從事介護的人 他要站在這條 你的意思是不是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6343.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6360.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
是他的介護人力有些本來在扮演介護的結果他過去支援秘書單位的那個所以你的意思就是說這麼人賺到了對不對啦你都沒有實際在從事介護的工作嘛那結果你從事那個整個秘書職可能到點獄長啦 到這裡比較涼快你還要把人站這條是不是這樣但有一個問題啦 就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6366.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6382.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
這個部分是另外去要求的問題可是你這樣變成說因為有監所的一個管理裡面人員的一個配置產生問題可是對那些實際在從事介護的人我們也不能因為這個原因在整個行政流程你把他卡住啦這也不對啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6384.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6411.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
其實我跟蔣正岳是很熟的,我們從來沒有卡他們的想法只是說,一進度會四千五一份,要跳到多少一倍啦差不多他有分兩件嘛,一個四千個嘛,要跳到八千嘛其實我覺得這個金錢,他的工作的風險,他的增加,我們內部有一套平和的標準這一套我覺得,大家彼此講清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6412.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6417.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
他就蓋了,他就說他不會的,我們的遊戲規則就放在那裡,這種應該是要大家溝通,你覺得我們訂的沒力,他就覺得他就是要這樣,讓我們同仁有這樣的感覺 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6431.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6448.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
這樣沒辦法一定有辦法的啦可以幫他協助的啦可以幫他協助的啦絕對的啊啊協助 大家都說可以這條喔很多的預算是因為在野黨就說你這個不合理或是不給你審那這一條 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6448.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6451.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
因為這條真的講很久了這條草野都沒有問題的 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6475.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6477.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
可惜啦 這樣就可惜了 長久的時間我們頂一下啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6479.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6508.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
我們四位都已經處理好 四位都 覺得麻煩謝謝任市長總是這個這個把它有共識的我們就盡量來把它做一個處理那接下來就是說上個上個禮拜法務部專報裡面本席也去問了法官檢察官跟書記官司法人員過勞跟人員流失的問題其實我們同時也去看到近期很多的一個報導今天早上很多委員也去關心的整個公務人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6509.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6535.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
離職的部分 當然有人說用逃亡 我是不會這樣講但確實 公務人員的離職率 都要講的一個議題有時候你又造成人才沒辦法進來好的又留不住 這個就是很可惜現在整個公務體系裡面 年金的一個改革當然會有所衝擊當然現在新舊制度有所不同 可是這個業務量確實也大 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6537.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6565.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
那有人涉及到整個烤雞又大家又覺得說又不公平那如果連整個薪資的一個調整都讓這個基層工人覺得沒有感覺的話這個對整個國家治理來講的話也是一種風險啦也是一種風險啦我從第八屆進來的時候總預算的規模不曉得我記得是一兆七還是一兆八你看現在第十一屆人家到兩年多現在已經到三兆了 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6567.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6589.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
有時候一個國家的GDP成長連在政府編出來的總預算的規模從一兆多到現在十幾年的時間裡面已經達到三兆這代表說國力在增強我們稅收真的國力增強沒有好笑你看你稅收多少就知道看你稅出有多少你有沒有能力來承擔就知道可是呢這個整個薪資的部分這個確實我們看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6593.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6598.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
這個業務量這麼大 你說中央機關的總原額限制 現在你多少人16萬多嘛齁這個 任市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6602.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6619.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
十六萬零九百我們這個定義小政府的編制要從事這個大政府的一個業務那一百一十六年度的調薪的部分你們現在已經說了過去四年已經調三次了所以一百一十五年不要再調了這個尊重但是問題就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6623.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6643.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
你普遍公務人員一定會去跟你反映 整個GDP的成長 國民薪資的中位數 實質購買力來講的話這個其實實際上薪水跟人家的幣是在往下喔所以這個部分我要請教你 116年度的待遇的調整 你當時也會去啟動 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6645.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6658.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
通盤的一個評估你們的評估的標準有可能給它納入我們剛才說的實質購買率不然你國家的總預算可以增加經濟也是在成長但是人家會說我的薪水呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6660.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6686.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
這個補優還沒有 簡單請回答要增加這個實質購買力我們再來跟主計總署還有財政部那裡溝通一下啦那我沒辦法直接召回黨府但是啟動明年的一個條件我們有一個條貸委員會那我們大概六月以前應該會召開其實齁你們在2024年你們你們有多次承諾 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6690.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6714.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
整個調工人員調薪的一個程序你們也認為該法治化你現在不是你現在什麼人做行政議員就是什麼人拍板當然涉及到國家的財政沒錯但問題是薪資如何來做一個調整你如果沒有去一個法治化譬如說你公開數據公視審議的過程不是每個人都說是財政你如果要說是財政我要說我們的財政當年如何如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6720.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6733.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
如果要這樣講的話,不是嗎?你只是笑這是很嚴肅的一個問題喔我的意思就是去研議一個可以量化的啦不然你說我的總預算越來越好,財政經濟一直發展,國家越來越強人家會問你,你的薪水呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6737.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6754.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
這個一針馬上會戳到說我們這個政府的治理的一個效能裡面該給公務人員的部分我們確實啊我去年金改革那是一回事那涉及到整個你說這個整個年金改革你如果不夠那些會破損 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6755.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6760.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
那個大家去想辦法來做改革 那就已經有命運了 對衝擊的人但是對公務人員的照顧 尤其這部分來講的話我反而認為 這個可以說理的喔這個該照顧還是要給人家照顧喔再來就是說 年輕人就開始我們看得到說 那個受雇者代表可以納入審議嗎這個喔 我希望說你去年喔 你10月 你10月總促加表示法治化以後新的諮詢委員會納入兩層的基層代表這個喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6785.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6811.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
這個方向你會改變嗎所以說啊 所以說啊 這是你們整個行政體系的問題啊讓整個公務人員 這個整個待遇的一個審議喔受僱者的代表的席次 他們最了解啦讓他們進入這個決策圈 就是也可以展現政府積極改善受僱者待遇的這樣的一個態度啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6811.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6816.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
我覺得這個人事長你也應該勇於去表達這個最後一個問題 因為阿標有時候要問我不覺得擔心的時間國民旅遊卡 我們是不是有可能來放寬你譬如說 為什麼要國民旅遊卡 給人家的就是說要給公務人員說 你很辛苦的 給你去放鬆一下 給你去旅遊一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6836.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6855.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
這個其實都是在講身心健康嘛那如果身心健康的話鼓勵他去運動這也是啊這也是讓他身心健康很好的一個方式啊不是只有旅遊啊那所以說範圍有沒有可能來放寬啊古尼本席曾經跟人事長你們去爭取公務人員健康檢查補助費用的部分你說檢討到條件齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6859.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6863.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
運動的角度我們是不是在譬如說你現在將中央在辦的基層運動大會都刪掉那是好事啦那類似有點大拜拜啦這個其實滿了十年以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6875.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6882.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
政府去鼓勵我們公務人員去從事運動 我覺得這是好事你要從事運動 你會降低運動的成本所以我們是不是可以放寬國民旅遊卡的使用範圍以前只有限定旅遊而已 未來你開放可以買券 買特約商店的商品是不是可以放寬 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6901.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6924.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
運動中心或是民營的健身房 讓他們去建立一個特約的關係這樣喔 觀光也是在促進公務人員身心的健康 讓他休息去運動 那也是一件好事 范瑋哥要看一看 任市長你的看法我為鄉及其周圍的看法 在運動以外 我們也把文化的部分也納進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6925.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6946.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
是 因為我覺得這塊 身心靈 健康 救民 四肢要健全 文化的涵養也要夠啦那都有價值來啦是啊 我譬如說我去什麼鐵人山巷啊 或是那些自由車啊我也可以來抵報民會啊 這是很好的一件事情啊你看我們那個 范營委員在教育委員會的 人也一直在點頭做教學也一直在點頭 這是一個好的方向啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6952.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6963.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
照顧公務人員不是只有提升福利 提升福利是好事促進他的健康 叫他去觀光也好事 叫他去運動也是好事喔而且運動部我們去年成立囉 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
6965.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
6989.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
去年政府來帶頭,就是說我要培養運動發展,培養全民運動的風氣所以運動也不分公務人員,也不分你做產的,全民大家一起來嘛公務人員的部分,所以這個部分我覺得去照顧全體公務人員職場的一個適應,這也是一個福利的提升所以人事長沒有問題啦,我們放寬啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
6993.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7006.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
好,謝謝任市長,抱歉喔,來應用點好,謝謝莊銳雄召委的質詢,真的很支持擴大包含運動那謝謝任市長請回那下一位請徐宇珍委員質詢好,沒問題好謝謝主席,我們請蘇任市長好,請蘇任市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7020.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7033.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
委員早人事長早人事長我想請教你就是有關行政院主計總署他最近已經公佈了就是114年底全年的經濟成長率是8.68% |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7036.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7037.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
然後今年渴望高達7.71%那也就是說這兩年如果假設在我們預估的可能更高的話也許這兩年的經濟殘餘大概就可以達到15%、16% |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7051.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7069.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
那當然這個賴總統也在日前參加這個宣布核電重啟的這個磐石會的交接典禮上也大戰過去的一年是大家共同努力的成果那當然公務人員絕對也是其中的一環也是因為大家是一個政策的執行者推動者然後讓這樣子的我們經濟成長能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7070.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7092.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
有這樣一個亮麗的成績那所以呢這樣的一個經濟成長的成果本來就應該要跟工人員一起來分享不過呢我們看到去年的這個我們算經濟成長8.68%不過並沒有加薪並沒有加薪那我想請教一下任市長針對這個部分您的看法呢也謝謝委員剛好 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7096.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7112.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
給我這個機會 事實上我是主張經濟成長如果有成長盡量每一年幫公務人員加薪不過上一年坦白講在4月2號那個台美關稅的這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7113.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7139.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
製造了很多的一些不確定因素尤其假如匯率又連動的話對台灣很多的中小企業的一個影響會比較大在很多不確定因素的情況底下後來就是決定115年不調不過要跟委員報告我們目前同時也針對115年不調的部分我現在跟行政院爭取 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7140.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7146.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
在..116年是嗎一個是就115年就是今年會 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7148.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7172.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
2015年我們現在大概六月底以前會去透過調審代議委員會去討論明年調薪的問題一樣這個我們現在同時也在跟行政院爭取對公務人員的另外一個調薪的一個機會我大概下個月會去跟院長報告您所謂的爭取另外一個調薪的機會是指今年度嗎對 今年度今年度也會爭取一個調薪的機會對 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7174.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7191.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
那所以說也就是說針對這樣子剛剛提到的就是說既然經濟成長率這麼高其實照理說今年就應該要調型那你們也會去彌補這樣子的一個問題所以今年也會有可能要幫工人員加薪是這樣的意思嗎我們在努力當中啦好 謝謝任市長我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7191.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7215.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
其實我們今天本席質詢的一個要求就是希望說既然經濟有成長那本來就該全民共享尤其是公務人員我們也覺得因為過去我們可以看到其實基本工資這幾十年來已經漲了40.42%但是呢軍公教調薪這總共四次也總共只有14%所以我覺得對於軍公教來說調薪的幅度相對的低 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7215.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7232.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
那剛剛任市長已經特別提到了就今年度也會再啟動調薪的這樣的一個機制那明年度我相信明年度現在既然預估可能達到7.71%那我那天參加這個商總的一個活動那明星國務部長也講說我們也希望能夠調這個能夠繼續可能到8點 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7234.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7252.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
往八點多趴的這個邁進所以我想這個部分的話應該明年調薪也應該是會有這樣子的一個機制那時候六月份在這個啟動我們在整個調薪的一個審議的時候也請任市長也要幫我們的公務人員說句這個公道話是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7255.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7280.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
這是我責無旁貸的責任我最重要的任務就是這件事情我覺得這件事情對我來講非常重要我們所有的公務人員聽到今年度有望也可以調薪明年度也有機會可以調薪的話應該就是不管是離職率或報考率應該都會增加讓公務人員覺得說這份薪水是有意義的那另外第二個請教您的是就勞動部北分署的公務員到80輕生後 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7282.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7301.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
那所以說大家開始各界在把工部門的這個霸凌的事件也開始很重視那所以人事總署也對審計部表示在114年3月18日為止各機關都已經完成職場霸凌的相關程序的檢修還有包括工人員保障法 工人員考機法 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7303.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7330.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
表示說政府就知道問題的嚴重但是呢我們可以看到監察院日前才指出經濟部縱容霸凌調查報告出來後仍不處理那昨天呢我們又很遺憾的有聽到就是我們經貿辦公室的副總代表嚴惠心此事那我們覺得很不捨但是媒體有報導說她生前可能在單位受到長官的排擠工作並不愉快 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7330.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7357.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
所以這件事情連在一起請問一下你們身為這個行政院人事主管職場霸凌的部分你們到底做了些什麼的處理現在職場霸凌現在整個宣導還有法規後面都已經很完備了嘛都已經相對完備不過現在聽起來感覺上好像就是宣導啦好像沒有真正落實在因為可能霸凌的這個狀況還是感覺層出不窮 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7360.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7370.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
我跟委員報告像這個先導霸凌的大概前十二個縣市我親自跑了十幾個縣市自己先導就代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7372.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7393.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
我們人事總署對這件事情的一個重視而且說真的這裡面會有執行面上面遭遇的問題很多在市級機關一些比較鄉里的這些人事人員碰到這個霸凌他不曉得要怎麼處理所以我們有特別請 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7394.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7407.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
每一個縣市的人事處要成立一個help team去協助他們那人長請問你這邊有一些具體的成效嗎就不是只是在這邊講說我們有努力就有沒有什麼具體的成效 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7410.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7430.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
好 那麻煩再送給這個本席那另外就是針對剛剛講到的就是我們的這個副總談判代表顏惠心就是她的這個部分我在這邊也要請教任市長就對於這種高度機敏長工時高壓決策的單位有沒有主動的職場風險盤點那有沒有這樣子的一個高風險機關及時介入的機構呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7438.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7463.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
總不能等到像這樣子常常都是要鬧出人命鬧上新聞鬧到監察院彈劾才會懂嗎是不是有這樣子的一個機制這個基本上在保訓會定的安慰辦法裡面都有建立這樣的一個機制只是說每一個政府機關我們必須要去remind他要去active這樣的一個function |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7464.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7484.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
所以說這個部分那個保訓會的規定都很明確對 但是呢 就是執行上執行上因為落在各個機關執行上落在各個機關可是我們保訓會每年會去抽核實際執行抽幾次呢 每年會抽核是抽幾次 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7486.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7510.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
他們會看業務量每一年會針對一些機關本席提出這樣的一個問題就是希望說我們的人事總署應該要針對霸凌的事件還是要有一定的具體的這種方式而不是只是宣導宣導的話效果一定不好那還有就是說絕對不能說遇到問題就是這樣子到最後就是不了了之 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7511.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7533.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
這樣可以嗎?霸凌的事情很難就這樣直接不了解所以說希望這個部分我們絕對不能說只是發了函然後辦起上宣導就這樣子過去了是第一個階段就是awareness的部分第二個部分就是在practice的部分我們也要看大家有沒有落實 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7534.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7561.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
最後一個問題本期想要請教是有關就是我們的這個考記的我們最近要修改這個考記法嘛那針對我們現在以往分而加以比例四等那現在會採用根據你們的這個一個參考資料是說會分優秀良好跟未達良好這三個等級的評比方式但是呢你們這次還增設了第八條就是指說 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7562.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7584.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
工作考機應考列未達良好者包括了承辦業務有重大為失造成不良後果工作推為怠慢情節重大工作品質持續不佳情節重大者那請問一下任市長針對這樣的一個版本 任市總處使什麼樣的態度 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7586.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7593.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
我跟委員報告事實上前西部為了要修改整個考計法的變革他也邀請了全國的 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7594.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7619.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
各機關還有縣市人事主管去做幾次的溝通會把final的溝通然後到時候再跟兩院去協商因為現在看起來這個啊什麼叫做這個重大的維持什麼叫做品質不佳什麼叫做工作推諉這種都是那種不確定的這個法律概念到時候在最後在這評比的時候會不會變成說主管 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7619.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7634.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
看誰不順眼然後就看誰或者是說主管都想要當好人所以就全部都給這個第一等的優良會不會有這樣的狀況基本上會搭配平時考核一起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7637.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7660.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
因為這樣子的修改考積法我相信利益是良善的但是因為現在目前看起來的修法把它變成更多不確定性所以在執行上可能會有更多的問題產生所以我們希望說在真正的考積法修法之前能夠把這些的這種不確定因素把它降低真正能夠落實到就是表現優良的人我們給他考積好那表現 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7661.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7677.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
不是的,不適任的這些人那當然讓他們,不能像以前一樣就是要,就是照比例那大家照輪流的這個方式的評比我們希望還是要有一個真正能夠去鼓勵優秀的人才,給他好的考機他才願意留在這邊為大家服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7680.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7692.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
委員指教的不明確性的這些東西我們在修法的過程會再跟檢訓部好好溝通把它明確化 可遭受刑謝謝許以珍委員的質詢接下來我們請葛如君委員宣達 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7713.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7733.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
好 謝謝主席有請蘇俊榮人事長請人事長好 謝謝喔首先和人事長談到我們國家門面的問題啦故宮是二級機關是我國層級最高的博物館那最近為了因應國際上的數位化展覽啊智慧庫房啊AI導入啊等等還有資安的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7733.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7741.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
像人事總署有提到爭取要將現有的數位資訊室調整為層級較高的數位資訊處但是卻被人事總署以中央行政機關組織基準法第31條為由要求故宮自行將內部的業務單位來進行整併才能夠把資訊室調整為資訊處 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7757.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7785.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
那我想要跟這個這個人事長來分享啊從法條來看呢這個我們的第31條啊講的是行政院基於政策統合需要得設委員會的話那有相關標準如下比如說業務單位四處至六處為原則這還只是原則喔那所以呢總體來講啊首先第一我要跟人事長說的是故宮是不是委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7789.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7811.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
不是委員會不是委員會不是應該不是啊您是人事長不是就不是啊所以不是委員會他不是用31條那為什麼要參照委員會的組織標準呢就連應該符合本條規範的行政院下制的九個委員會沒有遵守這樣的原則也大有人在啊你的原則本來說四處到六處結果呢我們一查發現啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7812.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7817.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
國發會底下8個業務處 國科會底下8個業務處那更厲害的 有退廚藝官兵輔導委員會 還有9個業務處怎麼不見人事總署發文給這些 說要遵守第31條 要他們自行診病呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7831.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7849.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
那還是說故宮的背景是怎麼樣大家對他有什麼意見嗎為什麼要把他納入這個根本就不適用第31條呢再說啊我們其實也是想要就是說符合這個世界的局勢文化在AI的時代變得更加的重要我們要守護他 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7851.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7867.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
我們國家級的國務博物館代表的是一個真正的歷史的門面那近來呢世界知名的博物館有很多重大的資安事件我想任市長應該也非常的清楚不管是勒索軟體啦資料外洩啦運運系統安全系統都非常非常的 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7867.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7883.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
有需要注意的地方那我想人事長故宮請求升級為數位資訊處有很大一部分原因我們應該要可以理解是要提升故宮本身的資安防護力那今天人總可以用各種理由來表達不同意但是如果有一天 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7884.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
7900.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
我們最高層級的博物館 故宮的網站被我們的對岸駭客給駭了掛上五星旗 六星旗你有辦法承擔這樣的責任嗎那到時候因為你們這樣一擋 沒有辦法做 沒有辦法做得好 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
7901.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
7924.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
你有辦法下台遲遲負責嗎我們都丟失的尊嚴有辦法恢復嗎我主要也是想要跟人事長說明跟溝通啦就其實我們修法通過的這個自通安全法明文第七條提到公務機關應該符合自通安全等級之要求去做相關的管理那管理當然就包含人事嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
7925.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
7937.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
那國科會和故宮一樣我們也幫人事長查好了都屬於資安責任等級B級的機關算是很高級的那國科會有獨立而且專責的資訊處為什麼故宮就不能夠對照辦理去設立數位資訊處呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
7942.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
7969.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
那還有一個點我也幫人事長都準備好了我想我們今天就是一個正向的溝通那人事總署有回覆他提到說故宮國際交流及公共事務無險助成長結果外交部看出大大的一篇外交部長林佳龍率團訪問想請教一下這個人事長這個部分有沒有機會 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
7971.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
7998.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
讓國科會和故宮一樣有一個數位資訊處我跟委員報告一下事實上一開始故宮要成立數位資訊處我們本來就很支持因為我本身學資訊的對這一塊我也非常重視尤其剛剛委員特別提到資安的問題這個我們原來就是一開始就很支持他成立這個單位可是我們現在拜託故宮的就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
7998.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8020.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
他內部的處能不能稍微做一下整併因為我們現在涉處涉太多橫向溝通成本有時候會太高不好意思我要打斷您剛剛我提的兩點你們給出來的回應都完全不正確你們第一你們用的是第31條故宮根本就不是委員會第二 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8022.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8049.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
剛剛我們講要資安 明明一樣逼齊的國會就有 為什麼他就不能有你沒有回應我啊依法行政不是嗎本來他們要成立這一個數位資訊室我們就是非常支持的對啊我們有支持沒有說那你說本來支持但後來要將它調整剛剛我們已經列出這麼多的部會都超過啊剛剛我們講的全部都超過有八個的有九個的你為什麼沒叫他們調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8049.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8066.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
所有定期在檢討最重要的就是因為會調整的原因本來就是因為它一個處底下會變成兩個顆我們希望它兩個處裡面有四個顆到六個顆這樣的一個規模是有這樣的一個背景在 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8067.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8082.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
沒有但是假如他本身的社科數都是一個處底下五六顆一個五六顆你兩個處要去整併變成十幾顆我覺得我們不會去提這樣的一個需求沒關係謝謝任市長因為我想大家都是為了好意 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8083.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8098.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
剛剛我們提到的這個資安的出發點AI的出發點數位展覽出發點你應該認同嘛對不對那剛剛我有提到的幾個例子案例其實法條裡面也都有提到有特殊需求我們可以來處理我們是不是還是請人事總處這裡來研議一下是不是還是來 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8102.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8117.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
研議去支持否則我們剛剛說發生不願意看到的事情大家都沒有辦法負責啊好不好好那謝謝陳市長那我想最後啦也稍微提一下因為這件事情卓院長也非常關心我們是不分朝野的在關心同一件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8117.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8118.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8140.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8161.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
2.4兆到3兆美元交易量大概有40幾兆美元那像杜拜就成立了虛擬資產管理局那這個相關的資料我們也都幫忙準備好那您知不知道政企局內部負責虛擬資產也有這個幾十兆美元全球流動的這個新的產業您知道有幾位專責人員嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8163.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8178.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
這麼大的喔卓院長說這是優先的喔他們有來緊徵延額一二十位我們都有按照他的需求給他好那我想這一點第一人力的部分希望我們能夠針對新興的產業這一點我們要予以加強跟補充 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8181.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8187.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
目前只有14位而且14位是原則上專職那當然我們都尊重各個部會我們也感謝人事總處這裡有說115年116年會配合再予以增加但如果這個產業再蓬勃發展也希望再擴增那本席也知道啦這個相關的規範人數是有一定的規定但是第六條有開放一個空間就是中央行政機關組織法的第六條 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8210.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8227.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
有一個機關因性質特殊得認定名稱因為過去有在討論要成立虛擬資產管理局但是因為各種原因好像有點可惜開始負重我們剛剛看到杜拜有成立虛擬資產管理局 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8228.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8251.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
那我想因為這個產業對台灣未來的發展真的非常重要數位經濟黃仁勳說開市有說是十倍百倍甚至千倍這個機會台灣一定要緊抓為什麼因為他對於水電土地的需求相對的是少的所以本席在虛擬資產服務法也提出一個版本希望明定要設專責單位及專職人員而且人數依業務增減來調整就是說業務擴大 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8257.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8267.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
產值擴大那我們就讓他增加那並且來修正金管會的組織法明定要來增加一個虛擬資產管理中心去強化對虛擬資產的管理發展監測及國際合作因應我們前面的第六條 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8274.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8300.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
這個名稱也許用局或者用處有很多的限制但是如果面對一個新興產業我想我們做人事的管理應該不只是劃低支線我們也還要遠見嘛我相信人事長一定會支持所以請教一下人事長隨著我國的虛擬資產服務專法即將上路全球在擴大數位經濟你認為金管會有沒有設立虛擬資產管理中心的空間 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8301.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8317.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
我覺得這個基本上我還是要尊重金管會的需求因為第一次他請申延額的時候我們有跟他提就是隨著業務增長延額我們會逐步再增加這是一個我們已經講好的反正人力金補 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8318.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8337.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
增補的遊戲規則就是這樣那至於規模到哪一個階段要成立一個資產中心我覺得這一部分我們會尊重經管會的意見我們就是會跟他來討論如果真的規模到那裡我們也會盡量協助他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8337.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8346.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
好 謝謝人事長的正面回應那我也希望能夠鼓勵人事單位跟經管會還有包含我們整個行政院啦其實我們是必須有遠見我們必須要有半步之先啦而不是說 哎呀 等到已經人不夠了大家已經忙到要非常痛苦了 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8355.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8375.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
這個產業的成長要爆量了我們再說我們來成立中心這個我們是不是能稍微提前那您剛剛的回應我也非常非常感動就是說尊重專業希望能夠聽金管會的說法那也就希望任市長這裡我相信這其實也是卓院長的希望可以協助金管會來成立虛擬資產的專責單位那名稱我想要怎麼取比較恰當比較符合金管會的需求以及產業的樣態 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8381.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8395.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
那我想這個可以再討論那不過至少在態度上就希望人總這裡我們保持像您今天一樣保持我們開放的態度來落實組織清簡優化的同時我們也能注重未來產業的發展在國際上的趨勢可以嗎好謝謝謝謝人事長謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8399.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8425.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
謝謝主席好 謝謝葛如君委員的詢答我們先來做會議程序的預告啦那稍後在我們鍾嘉斌委員詢答完畢以後我們休息五分鐘更正更正但是你前面還有人咧我不確定你前面有沒有人我們還是照原來的宣告啦好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8425.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8432.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
沒關係啦 讓你直接看一看 今天整個美美的給大家看一看來 請鍾嘉斌委員來做詢談你 郡主來詢談主席 在場委員 先進列席的政府金管組長 官員會長 工作夥伴媒體記者女士先生辛苦了 有請任市長 蘇任市長請任市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8456.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8463.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
委員長你感覺一下你覺得我們台灣的職場對育兒的家庭有不友善 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8465.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8489.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
有 越來越好但是還有改善的空間嘛當然 當然但是我看到最近的一個DECA他說 哎呀2月4日出生6千多人啊大家去看一看職場怎麼對待那些有新的出來有孩子要照顧的家庭政府在這個育嬰的友善我們的軍公教育嬰的這個待遇上有做了哪些事情職場友善育嬰 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8491.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8516.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
是不是有家庭照顧假 改成用小食為單位臨時小孩發燒要看病 趕快可以回去處理 對不對育嬰留職聽心 我們最長三年 現在可以用天來放 對不對啊為什麼要用天有時候要帶孩子去 要送孩子 是啦同等三年啦 對不對 六歲以下一次最長三年但是穿過幾年我就要穿直帶了 是不是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8518.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8547.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
所以我們看看照顧假孕流子庭新有沒有真的友善到育嬰我們往下給我舉個案例我最近接受了一個陳情陳情人是配偶這個媽媽帶著兩個小孩都未滿六歲她先生在軍公教的單位服務因為她帶兩個小孩沒有辦法就業老公一度他必須兩次請育嬰流子庭新來照顧家庭合理嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8549.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8565.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
但是他最近呢 這個結束暈流之停薪 他本來在屏東服務回去上班的時候呢 告訴他說 你的缺 因為你暈流之薪很長我們單位需要人力 所以把你的缺放在桃園因為單位缺人比較沒有關係 你覺得這樣合不合理因為我們這個單位 我們人不可以欠一天 所以你的缺我們把它刷到桃園 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8573.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8581.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
你覺得這樣合理嗎?桃園區還是桃園市?不管在桃園區、桃園市啦那不合理啦桃園啦,桃園啦,不是高雄的桃園區啦不合理嘛我照顧孩子,我行政運流制停薪機關單位也給我停但是我要回去上班,說你現在要去桃園上班拜託我在屏東,我要怎麼顧家庭你覺得有這種狀況人事總署,你們會不會要求要怎麼樣去改變要改正要怎麼要求? |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8605.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8617.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
人總會不會去要求機關不可以這樣子我們的留庭辦法是有規定啦有規定怎樣來我們看一下要規定要回去原來的所在你不可以到南部或到北部你的意思就是要交談 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8619.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8637.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
他不是說他不用說糟蹋喔他說我們這個單位我們有邊線筆我還說邊線筆就等於什麼單位啦我們需要每個位置上有人那因為你運流是停薪 你的缺我把它移到後勤單位後勤單位缺人比較沒關係國防部你們管不管管還沒管到好 說不出來的事情誰來管 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8646.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8652.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
軍公教人員是不是都有預薪留職提薪的保障有嘛齁 所以公教你管 國防部誰管國防部大家管還是我問國防部什麼人才可以管得到人質 人質次長室啊好 人質次長室齁 其實人質次長不是要把你圍欄啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8668.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8685.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
大家都說軍公教是政府僱用的人員啦 軍公教都很智慧啦公教你可以保證 公教發生這個事情不可思議但是部隊發生這個事情 你覺得沒用但是你認為合理上是不是軍公教都一次甚至民間企業都應該這樣子 是不是這樣 你看法呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8689.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8715.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
我認同委員的看法好 來 再來所以跟我的領委說我們的育嬰留職提醒的辦法當中他其實辦法寫說除了因為精檢整病改制應該以回復原職務為限定在我們的公職人員還好沒有軍也沒有公是公職人員如果我們要把這個保障擴大到軍跟教甚至民營企業或許我們這個法律要進一步加強你同意嗎同意好 來 請問人事長下一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8719.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8726.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
哎 公務員崩潰中啊這個雜誌說外交部缺而破四層台北市成為缺工的首都啊不說不去 保證這有嚴重嗎 什麼原因造成的 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8731.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8758.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
這個受理有一點不實啦比較誇大他沒有把駐外單位的這些關係來外交部先不論了啦台北市公務人員要去吃功課了台北市兩省外景市市頭要一省是台北市立聯合醫院醫護醫院也是醫院的部分績效導向所以剛好用一些有證照的有證照但不是戰缺的啦對啦OK好來我們看一下來最後一個問題了 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
8759.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
8774.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
公務人員缺額擴大 職貸的需求日增我們出缺職務 如果是提列考試分發的或者說非出缺在見任以下非主管的職務執行長一代以上我們就會聘職貸嘛 職務代理人嘛 對吧請問職貸的資格跟條件有沒有限制職貸都會限條件限條件跟台北一雙 對吧但是約聘跟約僱有什麼差別約聘跟約僱有什麼差別 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
8785.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
8796.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
那做的工作也沒工 待遇也沒工待遇沒工啦你們知不知道目前公家機關缺缺人 聘職代用約顧的多還是約聘的多 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
8798.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
8803.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
對嘛 約估還少啦還少啦所以你要知道我們約聘戶都是自薪自低 權力保障弱我們的職務能力就有差別啊所以常常都說有代理沒處理什麼意思我這個機關我現在有人兼任以下非主管我就聘個職代我用右腳的來撐對不對我撐一下右腳的但是做的工具是不是官來七職等的 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
8826.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
8835.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
鑑認到八值等到九值等如果出現那個是七八九的值等的這個時候他做的事情是約顧人員約顧人員 你要看多少你知不知道三萬塊起跳嘛是不是要大學畢業嘛還是高中畢業他能夠處理嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
8844.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
8857.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
沒辦法嘛是不是這樣所以叫做有代理沒有處理再往下看那什麼叫做代理什麼叫做直代有沒有看過高年級實習生看到這個美女這是十幾年前的電影了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
8858.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
8881.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
林市長有沒有看過高年級實習生這部電影我有特別看你有特別看嘛我相信你不只是看美女還看這個男主角他是企業高階主管退休然後呢去當什麼實習生後來有一個偶然的機會扮演代理司機代班司機老闆發現他很好用啊很專業啊是不是這樣有沒有看過棒球比賽棒球比賽的投手有什麼有中繼投手中繼投手是菜鳥嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
8887.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
8895.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
很多都是資深的投手意思說當我們需要代班代理不是代班還要負起責任要有能力跟專業你同意嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
8897.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
8901.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
同意 同意 好但是我們現在的常態上是用約顧用低薪聘一些來沖人手的人我們並沒有辦法去詳細的去考較說請來這個人是不是可以做官來這個節目職務代理不是代理薪水啊還要代為處理啊還要代扛責任 對不對是什麼樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
8919.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
8929.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
委員你這個問題我們會好好研究啦所以說 我覺得你的職務代理人不是說課不上講這個不是說要找不到套路的不是課名義代表勤勤積積 客觀的去公家去做代理的因為月聘戶或職務代理要考試嗎 不見得要考試所以他的人力的素質 其實你們要怎樣要鼓勵什麼 重返職場的現在很多人有專業 但他不做專職啊 為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
8948.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
8973.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
我家裡要自己顧啊所以你看跟前面的育嬰留職挺薪有沒有很像育嬰留職挺薪為什麼會把他的缺丟到很遠的地方去因為他找不到能夠取代他職能相稱的職代啦所以說我們要建立可擔任職代的人的人才庫很多人他不一定要做全職不一定要做專職但是呢我可以當中繼投手你有欠人我給你投一局可不可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
8976.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
8994.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
認同委員的看法好 所以最後的責任所以解方建立職務代理人的分級人才庫薪資待遇權益要把它分出來職代的業務能力你要保證以後有這些的事情沒有讓專業的人來擔任職代來代理才能確保行政效率服務品質可以考慮嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
8995.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9019.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
我們回去會努力來設計一個比較可行的有一個比較快的方法你先請同仁把過去這幾年三年或五年看你們的資料全國的職貸用約聘的是多少約顧的是多少平均的約顧薪水是領多少約顧的是領多少然後他們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9020.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9048.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
程度 教育程度他們的專業能力有沒有具有專業的證照做個調查可以嗎這樣就知道我們公家機關缺工的時候或者遇到留職留停的時候呢我們找來的 找到趁手的職代來接替這樣好不好好 最後確保育嬰留停有合理的回職範圍包括軍公教第二 建立支付代理人的分級跟人才庫什麼時候可以提供 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9054.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9074.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
三個月要調查很久的 三個月可以調查幾年 三年五年沒有啦 三個月因為最近事情那麼多好 要讓你們調查最近三年來啦 最近三年內我們所有你們主管的公家機關他們聘用的職務代理人是用約聘還是約僱 各薪水的分佈怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9076.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9101.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
進來的人員他的教育程度具有的專業正道的情況又是如何還是說只要有高中畢業有親戚關係我就請你來當職代反正在那裡也不用實際的做什麼太多的事情那育嬰留庭的部分如果有好的職代其實機關就不用什麼部隊就不用把什麼把人啊把缺掉去錢的地方去讓育嬰留庭回來的人找不到地方上班好不好好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9106.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9110.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
好謝謝宗家病委員那我們按照剛才主席的宣告我們休息五分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9569.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9581.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
好 我們繼續開會接下來我們請鄭正前委員鄭正前委員鄭正前委員不在場接下來我們請賴慧媛委員上台質詢好 謝謝主席我們請任市長請任市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9598.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9620.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
委員長是 人事長最近看起來臉色好了很多可是頭髮好像掉很多好 這個也是我們台南最優秀的人才倒是在這裡要跟人事長就是在這個時間點跟你討論討論就是說畜牧的一個行政管理跟產業的一個輔導我要為農業來發聲 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9623.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9637.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
因為我們都知道說農業在每年的總產值其實它高達5850億那中間就是畜牧產業的一個產值它是達到2060億那農業的總產值的比例佔了34.5%那更不要講說這個養雞啦養豬啦其實它的連產量都大概接近了 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9650.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9665.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
這個900億 600億那其實畜牧產業對於我國的農業其實它的發展貢獻很大在這個過程裡頭我想那個任市長你也是一個很懂得吃很懂得吃的一個很有品味的一個人 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9665.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9680.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
可是畜牧師的一個人力嚴重的不足他必須要服務就是分布在全國各地的畜牧業者那其實人員的配置還有就是服務的能量其實打了很大的一個折扣 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9681.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9693.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
但是我在這裡特別就是把農業部它的一個編制裡頭你看它農糧署它的正式編制人員626個那這個林業保育署是1323個 醫業署有226個那到了畜牧師剩下34個 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9702.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9717.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
那在這裡我要特別跟那個人事長做一個澄清到現在去年的丹納斯颱風所有杏木產業它的受損的情形,農災的一個補助到現在還沒有拿到 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9718.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9745.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
那沒有拿到的時候你這個畜牧師一問的時候他是告訴你說沒有辦法因為我們的人員編制是不夠我不知道就是那個我們的人事長有沒有聽到這樣子的一個問題你看這個畜牧行政面臨的三大的一個困境啊農業產業福島不足啊那如果有災害那個花生的時候它的應變是非常慢的還有產銷的調節也非常的一個困難那 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9746.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9763.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
在這裡我想 我講了這麼多啦 講了這麼多我想就是聽聽 就是我們的人事長對於這一個議題最大的一個看法 當然我知道目前推動最大的一個困難在法規上的一個限制中央組織法規限制就是三級的機構 現在有71個 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9767.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9781.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
已經就是額滿了那這個71個額滿的話那像兒少署兒少署最近也要成立了是不是可以比照兒少署的一個方式怎麼樣來調整這個畜牧師呢董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9784.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9800.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
我覺得委員這個諮詢非常好讓我們會和會跟農業部來談因為從西穆斯的變質鹽餌要去做這麼大的事情坦白講他力有未待可是就陳儒委員剛才 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9802.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9828.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
呈現的那個投影的資料裡面也有續場會那我們會試著來跟農業部去談怎樣的一個合作機制在有效的延額裡面可以達到委員的期待大家一起來共同解決是否要成立一個署或局或者成立哪一個單位的一個樣態我覺得讓我們跟農業部再來面對面溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9829.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9848.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
好 原則上就是解決問題為導向解決問題為導向 什麼時候談呢那談的一個規模到哪裡呢這個我想 這個我需要 我需要知道因為這個議題其實在上一屆的時候我也已經提出來了可是這個四年過去了 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9849.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9862.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
我覺得這個對畜牧產業非常非常的不公平啊你看災難發生的時候去年的六月發生的災難到現在我們所有的這個畜牧產業的一個災損還拿不到錢啊還拿不到錢啊不是沒有錢欸是沒有人去花欸所以這個那個人長是不是這樣子好不好我我跟你討論一下就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9876.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9902.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
如果我們為了這個整體的畜牧產業有足夠的能量可以那個永續的經營的話人力確實就是最需要的啦齁那就是說我們的辦公室齁跟這個召開跟農業部齁跟你的單位齁我們一起來研擬這一個議題好嗎委員報告啦先先給我們的同仁跟農業部還有畜牧市的 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9903.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9918.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
第一輪我們的業務單位面對面談第二天我會跟陳部長一起到你辦公室大家一起來把討論的結果給你報告那兩百百可以嗎 不用你來你的事情看不來你跟農業部 那個農業部沒有啦 各位啊 農業部也沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9930.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9933.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
農業部很沒用問題 你如果要升級他隨時都吃飽了沒有啦 他沒時間吃飽了 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9938.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9965.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
就是吃不飽才會催淚啊我覺得是這樣子啊 任市長那個不用你來啦你只派一個你最信任的人跟農業部談那我希望那就是兩個禮拜兩個禮拜 好不好我覺得這個議題已經存在很久了再一個月的話那顯現不出來你們的誠意兩個禮拜 好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9966.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9994.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
好 大家好 接下來我們請洪孟楷委員 洪孟楷委員 洪孟楷委員不在接下來請羅明采委員 羅明采委員 羅明采委員不在接下來請吳思堯委員 吳思堯委員 吳思堯委員不在接下來請蘇清泉委員 蘇清泉委員 蘇清泉委員不在接下來我們請葉元之葉委員上台質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
10008.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
10009.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
桌7號慢慢請人事長謝謝我們請人事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
10013.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
10038.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
委員長委員長你好我現在還是先來問一下有關於烤雞改革的問題因為前段時間很多公務人員覺得輪流吃蟻不公平認為烤雞應該要根據表現而不是因為說有定一個甲等的上限所以就會讓一些新人即便他表現非常好所以他還有可能要吃蟻等到變老鳥之後再換別人吃蟻這個是最近大家討論話題 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10039.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10045.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
那我也是有看到人事行政總署的回應是說今年會比去年加等比例來得高 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10046.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10073.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
那其實你這樣的回應是沒有回應到大家的需求大家是認為如果你不是以表現來定定考積的話是不公平的但你說沒關係我提高一點點那還是會有一株之憾那上次我在這邊問考試院考試院是說幫任總講個話因為任總不是考積法的主管機關所以有時候也沒辦法回答他是這樣子講的那任市長你看考試院對你很好 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10074.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10096.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
我是想請教一下 因為新的考積法現在已經有一個訊息出來是說要取消甲乙丙丁 把他改成未達良好 良好跟優秀三個級距 是這樣子嗎 確認一下 您的了解目前他們的草案是這樣 可是還沒有final |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10098.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10127.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
還沒有final 還有final所以人事長也可以去提供意見那其實他這樣子改沒有解決到關鍵問題啦在大家的關鍵問題不是說只是把甲乙丙丁把他改個名字而已啊而是說你不能夠按照比例所以我想確認一下他改成優秀是不是就是以前的甲等他的定義跟不一樣對不對 不一樣那人事長你知不知道公務人員他被打跟甲跟乙的差別是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10128.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10153.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
影響他的烤雞獎金嘛會影響烤雞獎金如果說是定甲等的話烤雞獎金是是一個月是一個月嘛那乙等是半個月乙是半個月嘛那請問一下如果被定之後這樣改完之後優秀那烤雞獎金是幾個月一個月1.3個月那良好是幾個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10156.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10181.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
所以還是有差嘛還是有差嘛還是有差但是拉上來嘛對不對那有沒有可能一種狀況是因為優秀呢也是比例有上限所以呢即便有一個公務人員表現非常優秀但是就跟他講說因為名額有限你就良好就好了就不要到優秀了下次有機會再給你優秀再給別人良好會不會出現這個狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10183.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10209.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
我覺得目前還在討論的過程所以這就是換湯不換藥嘛今天這個問題的核心我先想你要把所有的考金獎金往上拉對公務人員好一點這個當然大家都贊成因為畢竟剛剛我看很多委員在討論說要怎麼把優秀的公務人員留住嘛那你透過考金獎金的提升本來一個月可以變成1.3個月然後半個月變成一個月這都很好 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10210.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10222.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
這是一個誘因嘛可是如果說在給誰1.3個月或一個月的過程當中又讓他覺得說為什麼我不能1.3個月相對剝奪感啊還是會造成問題沒有解決啊所以關鍵是不能有比例啊而不是說我把那個名稱換一下我把要給的獎金調高一點這個沒有完全回應到大家的問題啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10238.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10266.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
我跟委員報告 事實上全系部在訂這樣的一個考計畫的改變的過程中他還在遵循各個機關的一些意見本來有訂所謂的上面是一個固定的百分比嘛那這個百分比到底會不會都會落在某一個值等的檢認的這樣這也是可能大家會疑慮的部分嘛那您的看法咧 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10267.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10285.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
我先回憶一下剛才委員在提說我沒把天花板打掉這增加的加等的不多事實上我們現在的主要的考機的核心精神還是要去核實你標緣好你就多吧不要去設限要多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10286.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10306.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
因為大家一直在懷疑政府做這一塊到底是用說的還是做出來的,還是怎樣所以我想第一個先是天花板打開,我們有設個樓地板那未來授權各個機關的首長你要何時去做因為我覺得這樣頂得重 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10307.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10325.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
好好好 先生因為我時間快到了你說要把天花板打開那現在就不是這樣嘛你現在的夾等就是有一個上限嘛而且這個東西跟烤雞法無關嘛你人事行政總書一直命令你跟因為今年年底打烤雞的時候你跟所有機關講說以後打夾等不用限制了啦覺得它好你就打你就直接講就好了嘛那你嘴巴上面講說大家要核實喔我天花板打開喔但是我還是定一個上限在那邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10336.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10347.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
沒有上線有啦 之前就是75%嘛沒有上線是不是那你公文要發出去喔會啊會啊你公文要發出去因為大家就會拿到人事總署的公文啊因為我也問公務機關啊為什麼你們甲乙就是要這樣比例他說如果沒有這樣的話人事檢驗總署不會過啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10357.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10376.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
所以你們就是很明確的把公文發下去今年大家打烤雞打假表現好就是假沒有比例限制因為剛剛任市長自己講的嘛謝謝你的核實很空洞嘛就是沒有比例限制你就說沒有比例限制大家不要再誤傳了就沒有比例限制所以這個東西你直接宣誓根本不用修烤雞法 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10377.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10389.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
不用修考機把今年年底就馬上可以做了謝謝任市長在我的質詢可以有這麼重大的宣示回應這個大家的期待然後再來我講一個國民旅遊卡現在是一萬六嘛對不對現在還是一萬六嗎還是嘛因為已經非常久沒有調了啦這個你考慮一下我們現在討論的是怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10398.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10422.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
多提高一些福利跟待遇 留產嘛我覺得國民留產也是蠻多人講的那當初為什麼要一萬六 其實很多人都誤會公務人員啊以為公務人員為什麼那麼好有出去玩還有這一萬六 這不是啦這叫做不休假 一種不休假的獎金啊因為他可能有三十天的特休 但都沒有休你要給他三十天的獎金那時候政府因為財政的關係嘛 所以我強迫你一定要休十四天嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10423.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10440.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
然後補助你一個1萬6其實很多人如果不休那14天他領的比1萬6還要高啦所以這1萬6是一個不休假獎金的補貼所以不是他們 我覺得也不算是福利那這1萬6已經很久沒有調了所以請人事長一併考慮一下因為物價也漲了您覺得咧上一年有跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10448.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10457.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
行政院一起討論過啦到目前大概先為止啦我們會討論拒絕長的人理由是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10458.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10477.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
沒有 就是先維持現狀 然後放寬他的試用範圍試用範圍應該還好啦 大部分人都應該是可以用得完啦這個不是說當然範圍也OK 但是金額也要提高 這兩回事啦你說討論過 那反對長的意見是什麼我們會持續來爭取 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10479.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10498.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
不然這樣子好不好因為我們時間差不多不想給朝野為難你把上一次討論國民旅遊卡一萬六要不要漲的那個會議的紀錄提供給我我看一下反對的理由然後我下次再來質詢你搞不好有人反對理由是很無厘頭的好不好下次再來質詢請提供這個會議紀錄給我好 謝謝好 謝謝再提供這個會議紀錄給我 好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10507.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10533.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
好謝謝葉元之委員那我們所有登記發言的委員均已發言完畢我們詢答結束那委員質詢時要求提供的相關資料或以書面答覆者請相關機關盡速送交個別委員及本會那這個委員蔡其昌蔡其昌委員翁曉琳委員林倩琪委員吳宗憲委員所提書面質詢均列入紀錄為刊登公報並請相關機關以書面答覆 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10537.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10544.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
那本次會議所列議程議程所列事項已經處理完畢那我們就進行到此結束現在散會謝謝大家 |