| IVOD_ID |
17297 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17297 |
| 日期 |
2026-03-25 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-26-3 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第3次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
3 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第3次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2026-03-25T08:41:01+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-03-25T13:22:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
04:40:59 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/bfaf9b39ac01a6854ee4a7eab0b67bbeab0ef41a99ded32b44e0a145e6cc6f0fb734c1e13200cce65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-03-25T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：討論事項
審查
一、 委員謝衣鳯等19人擬具「兒童及少年福利與權益保障法第三十一條條文修正草案」案。
二、 委員郭昱晴等19人擬具「兒童及少年福利與權益保障法第七十七條條文修正草案」案。
三、 委員徐富癸等18人擬具「兒童及少年福利與權益保障法第二十四條條文修正草案」案。
四、 委員林月琴等16人擬具「兒童及少年福利與權益保障法第十三條條文修正草案」案。
五、 委員李彥秀等21人擬具「兒童及少年福利與權益保障法第二十五條及第二十六條條文修正草案」案。
六、 委員陳菁徽等22人擬具「兒童及少年福利與權益保障法第二十五條及第二十六條條文修正草案」案。
七、 委員廖偉翔等18人擬具「兒童及少年福利與權益保障法增訂第六條之一條文草案」案。
八、 委員蘇清泉等30人擬具「兒童及少年福利與權益保障法第九十七條條文修正草案」案。
九、 委員李彥秀等19人擬具「兒童及少年福利與權益保障法第七十七條條文修正草案」案。
十、 委員吳秉叡等21人擬具「兒童及少年福利與權益保障法第十六條條文修正草案」案。
十一、 委員謝衣鳯等16人擬具「兒童及少年福利與權益保障法第二十五條及第二十六條條文修正草案」案。
十二、 委員顏寬恒等22人擬具「兒童及少年福利與權益保障法第三十三條之一條文修正草案」案。
十三、 委員林月琴等16人擬具「兒童及少年福利與權益保障法第二十八條及第二十八條之一條文修正草案」案。
十四、 委員徐欣瑩等19人擬具「兒童及少年福利與權益保障法第二十三條條文修正草案」案。
十五、 委員林思銘等20人擬具「兒童及少年福利與權益保障法第九十七條條文修正草案」案。
十六、 委員王鴻薇等26人擬具「兒童及少年福利與權益保障法第四十九條及第九十七條條文修正草案」案。
十七、 委員黃建賓等16人擬具「兒童及少年福利與權益保障法第七十七條條文修正草案」案。
十八、 委員黃建賓等16人擬具「兒童及少年福利與權益保障法第八十三條、第一百零七條及第一百零八條條文修正草案」案。
十九、 委員林德福等20人擬具「兒童及少年福利與權益保障法第六十六條條文修正草案」案。
二十、 委員張雅琳等27人擬具「兒童及少年福利與權益保障法部分條文修正草案」案。
二十一、 委員柯志恩等18人擬具「兒童及少年福利與權益保障法第五十一條之一、第九十九條及第一百零二條條文修正草案」案。
二十二、 委員陳冠廷等24人擬具「兒童及少年福利與權益保障法第四十六條、第四十六條之二及第九十四條條文修正草案」案。
二十三、 台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「兒童及少年福利與權益保障法第二十三條及第三十一條之一條文修正草案」案。
二十四、 委員黃健豪等23人擬具「兒童及少年福利與權益保障法第六十九條及第一百零三條條文修正草案」案。
......(因系統字數上限，詳見議事日程)
【3月25日及26日二天一次會】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:41:01 - 13:22:00 |
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好現在開會請主秘報告出席人數報告委員會出席委員時任已主法定人數請議事人員宣讀上次會議事務 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
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立法院第十一届第五會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第二次全體委員會議實錄時間115年3月18日9時至14時25分115年3月19日9時2分至11時42分地點群憲樓801會議室初期委員林月琴委員等15人列席委員楊瓊英委員等18人列席官員3月18日及3月19日皆由衛生福利部部長石崇良率同相關部會相關人員列席 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1206.994 |
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1219.498 |
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主席盧委員現依3月18日報告事項宣讀議事錄議事錄確定請問委員會上次議事錄有無錯誤或遺漏之處 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1232.953 |
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1260.454 |
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決定一報告及詢問完畢二委員質詢未及答覆或請補充資料者請相關機關於兩週內以書面答覆委員另要求期限者重新鎖定通過臨時提案三項三月十九日討論事項審查行政院行情審議國民年金法部分條文修正草案案二繼續審查委員何新淳等17人拟據國民年金法五四條之一及五十五條條文修正草案案等 |
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1262.129 |
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1286.009 |
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19案3審查委員楊瓊英等36人擬拒國民聯金法部分條文修正草案案等17案本日會議經委員張志倫徐宇甄廖偉翔邱惠璐代表民眾黨黨團及范雲委員說明提案指區衛生福利部部長石崇良說明本日會議即由委員林月琴等三人提出36條條文修正動議等 |
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1288.021 |
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1289.962 |
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請問委員會上次議事錄有無錯誤或遺漏之處 |
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1318.991 |
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1332.844 |
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那議事錄確定宣讀本日議程前我要先跟所有未還委員會的同仁致意那沒有你們大家就沒有我們那這一會期就要麻煩大家大家一起努力謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1334.929 |
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1357.845 |
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本日議程為什麼排這樣的議程因為兒少全法從100年修為兒少全法之後剛好103年是有兒權公約施行法那表示施行法在後 兒少全法在前那當然中間歷經了六次的修法可是都是比較碎裂式的沒辦法去符合兒權公約的一個原理原則 |
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1358.769 |
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1387.666 |
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所以已經到了115年所以我們希望這次能夠順利能夠修法所以本日議程排了我們這兒照選法的一個詢答那我們也希望行政院的版本可以趕快送進來所以本日議程為審查委員謝一鳳等19人凝聚兒童及少年福利及權益保障法第31條條文修正草案等72案接著我們介紹在場的委員及列席官員 |
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1389.875 |
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1413.991 |
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王振旭委員陳金輝委員邱惠如委員廖偉祥委員衛生福利部石崇良部長社會及家庭署周道軍署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1416.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
1442.468 |
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保護服務師 郭采榮 師長心理健康師 陳柏喜 師長國民健康署 魏錫倫 副署長教育部國民及學前教育署 戴淑芬 副署長內政部護政師 蘇志猛 檢論視察國家公園署 環境規劃組 孫謙志 組長 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
1447.438 |
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1467.596 |
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警政署防治組徐坤龍副組長勞動部勞動力發展署陳士昌副署長勞動力發展署身心障礙者及特定對象就業組劉育儀組長職業安全衛生署綜合規劃組林志強檢任記者法務部汪南君參事 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
1476.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
1502.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
文化部綜合規劃師廖寧寧專門委員人文及出版師卓梅君科長國家通訊傳播委員會網際網路傳播辦公室李嘉琳檢認事長數位發展部數位策略師蔡壽權師長資源管理師王文哲記政 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
1505.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
1530.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
數位產業署黃雅萍副署長個人資料保護委員會籌備處法治事務組曾傑代理組長交通部陸政及道安司湯如燕檢任計政公共運輸及監理師蔡清風檢任計政環境部綜合規劃師鍾明新科長 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
1532.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
1547.248 |
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經濟部商業發展署劉雅娟副署長標準檢驗局張世宏科長現在請提案委員說明提案要旨首先我們請陳金輝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
1555.926 |
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1570.352 |
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謝謝主席謝謝各位委員官員的出席大家早安我們今天來為黃委員會審查兒童及少年福利與權益保障法的修正草案在進入條文之前呢我想請大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
1571.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
1592.848 |
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聽一段非常令人憂心的現況相信各位也在新聞中有看到今年的出生率又探底了2月台灣創下單月最低疊至7000人以下出生人口的記錄而在我的同業呢婦產科醫學會估計今年總出生人數很怕不到9萬人比去年要再少1萬人 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
1593.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
1623.11 |
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面對這樣子持續下探的數字我們不能只是在冷冰冰的喊著少子化是國安危機我們真正該做的是要從法規面還有制度面去著手讓爸爸媽媽在日常生活中真切的感受到國家有在用心用最真實最貼近生活的改變讓年輕世代覺得生養孩子是一個稍微可以輕鬆一點的事國家會幫忙這也是今天我提出這兩項修法草案的核心初衷 |
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1623.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
1640.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
首先是關於兒少法第33條之一的修正草案我們希望擴大孕婦以及育有6歲以下兒童停車位的設置範圍各位有小孩的人如果出門有經驗就知道常常大包小包還要推推車 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
1641.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
1646.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
如果到了目的地找不到停車位或者是車位過於狹小距離遙遠對爸媽來說真的是一場大災難久而久之就不敢再帶小孩出門了為了營造更友善的育兒環境我們提案將路邊的停車場還有公有 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
1658.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
1681.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
路外的停車場都納入我們保障的範圍要求保留百分之二的專屬車位同時我們將百貨公司還有量販店需要設置親子車位的門檻從現行的總樓地板面積一萬平方公尺下修到六千平方公尺讓中型的商場也能夠適用最後明確的把 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
1681.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
1708.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
常常會帶小朋友去的兒童遊樂場國家公園風景區森林遊樂區增列為應設置場所只要我們在交通出遊上給予一些方便就能大幅減少家庭的日常焦慮這就是最直接有感的友善育兒政策第二個部分是關於第25條還有第26條針對居家托育服務提供者監管的修正草案大家都記得 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
1709.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
1730.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
近几年来几起这个令人心碎的虐童案件让全国的父母看到新闻都非常的揪心尤其过去缺乏常态性制度性的评鉴机制让家长找保姆常常像瞎子摸象一样尤其是在弱势需要依靠的儿童安置更曝露出很严重的把关漏洞 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
1731.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
1753.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
我們原先提出這個草案是希望盡快將居家托育的定期評鑑機制入法不過因為上個會期立法院已經審查更全面的托育專法準備進入協商未來關於托育管理的重點跟細節會在專法中有完整的建構因此我們今天在兒少法這邊的審查主要就是要確保 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
1753.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
1775.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
現有條文跟未來的托育專法可以無縫接軌沒有漢格我們要確認法規之間不會互相敵觸或是有遺漏衝突的死角把兒少的生命健康權益牢牢的接住最後希望強調的是要改善少子化就從好停車好托育這些日常的細節一點一滴去建立爸媽的安全感 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
1776.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
1793.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
我們希望國家不是只有在催生的時候才出現而是要在育兒的每一天都做爸媽的好隊友希望朝野委員可以共同支持這兩項修正草案一起為台灣的年輕家庭打造更友善更安心的育兒環境非常謝謝好謝謝陳靜惠委員那接下來請廖偉祥委員說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
1810.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
1829.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
謝謝主席那本席提出的這個今天的兒少全法的提案說明守護兒童跟青少年的身心發展我想也是政府現在最基本的責任然而目前呢在中央政府辦理的兒少保護業務呢長期也處於財務的困境中 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
1830.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
1852.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
那現行的經費並非由獨立基金支應而是寄託在缺乏法源依據的社會福利基金下導致兒少保護的預算呢也極度的不穩定所以本席的提案的核心目的在於設置這個獨立兒少保護基金確保資源可以到位因為首先呢我們也可以從數據顯示目前的這個預算編列已經出現這個斷崖式的驟降 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
1858.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
1865.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
以這個增設及改善公社兒少緊急及中長期的安置機構計畫為例在民國111年的時候編列1.2億那到了112年的時候降至6300萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
1872.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
1896.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
那這個今年的113年竟然只剩下3000萬那這個三年內的經費萎縮也將近了四分之三那這種不穩定的財務支持要如何落實呢對於這些受虐或者是這個依而少的權益的保障所以其次呢我們的法律必須要建立在穩定的 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
1897.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
1914.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
預算的護成合理那所以本席提案是參考這個醫療發展基金那家暴及性侵害防治基金以及食品安全保護基金等現有的這個法制那明定中央應該設置獨立的基金那這個來源呢包含這個罰還啊政府補充啊公彩啊或菸捐盈餘等 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
1918.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
1946.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
那我們希望可以確保兒少保護的業務能夠有這個專款專用而且穩定成長的經費後盾所以最後目前兒少及家庭支持署設立的程序也正在如火如荼的進行中喔所以如果不設置這個基金呢不就反倒於我們要增加兒少署的這個理念背道而馳社會大眾又如何可以看到我們保護兒少的決心所以懇請各位委員同仁支持本案讓我們共同守護下一代的健全成長謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
1948.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
1954.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
好 謝謝廖委員 翔委員那接下來請謝一鳳委員說明共提兩案 請一併說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
1960.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
1974.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
好謝謝本席現在就兒童及少年權益及福利及權益保障法25條26條做以下的提案說明根據衛福部現在公開的統計數據顯示從2019到2024的6月底從事居家托育服務的人數有 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
1984.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2001.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
26272人增加到27392人顯示居家托育服務的需求事實上是增加的但是現在卻面臨了居家托育環境安全難以管理的問題因為根據衛福部 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2001.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2019.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
从2022年到2024年期间所做的6岁以下的儿童死因回措分析344案中有122案是高度可预期的案件其中43名的因幼儿猝死案 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2020.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2045.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
與不安全的睡姿及睡眠環境有高度的相關這些案例當中有8案是因為趴側睡姿引起另外35案則是因為床鋪太軟蓋厚重棉被或堆放雜物造成窒息有關顯示環境因素造成因誘而促使的主因也凸顯了監督上面的不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2045.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2071.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
所以對於現行的兒少法25條26條雖然居家托育服務明定要進行管理輔導跟監督但是缺乏定期去評鑑還有公布的機制所以本席現在提案修正徵定主管機關對於居家托育服務要辦理檢查定期評鑑並公布結果讓居家 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2075.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2097.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
托育服务者不得拒绝以便主管机关强化品质管理提升家长知情权而进而达到保障儿童安全的目的以上谢谢好谢谢谢一凤委员那接下来请邱惠璐委员代表台湾民众党党团说明共提三案请一并说明 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2104.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2122.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
主席各位委員同仁還有各位政府部門的同仁大家好那我想兒童是我們國家未來的主人所以守護兒童的健康跟福祉還有權益人人有責那當然我們台灣民眾黨也不會置身事外所以我們針對兒少全法 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2124.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2148.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
在法規上有不完備的地方我們提出三項要修法的條文那第一項呢分別是第13條第一項第二個要修法的部分是90條要增設第五項第三個要修法的部分是要修改第97條我們先講第一部分也就是兒少全法第13條第一項要修法的部分我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2149.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2177.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
原本的兒少權法第13條規定中央主管機關應該針對6歲以下的兒童進行死因的回溯分析而且要定期公告這樣的一個結果那我想這個利益非常的良善就是透過死因分析了解6歲以下兒童死亡的原因然後我們從死亡的原因加以找到預防的措施避免憾事再發生這利益非常良好但是美中不足的是這條條文它規範的 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2179.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2193.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
對象是6歲以下的兒童那事實上需要做死因分析的不限於6歲以下的兒童因為0到18歲的兒童跟少年都同樣要受到保護跟關照 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2194.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2213.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
因為特別是在青少年這幾年發生自殺的事件頻傳的一個氛圍之下我們主張說把第13條第1項要做死因分析的對象從6歲以下的兒童提升到18歲的少年加兒童所以在這邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2215.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2238.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
做死因分析的对象就做一个变更这是我们第一个部分想要做修正的那第二部分呢就是在儿少权法第九十条的第五项这是属于一个增订的条文那我想刚很多委员也提到居家式的托育服务者那其实就是我们俗称的保姆那保姆当然是守护婴幼儿健康第一线的兼兵那我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2239.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2259.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
這個保母她的服務品質跟服務能力非常的重要因為如果品質跟能力欠缺有可能是連帶的影響到兒童的身心健康那更可惡的是故意對兒童做一些忽略或者是惡劣的行為這些是萬萬不能夠容許的然而可惜的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2260.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2270.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
這些保姆我們的兒少全法並沒有做管制哪一部分沒有做管制就是無照保姆所以無照保姆我們必須做管制我們先確保他具備專業的能力還有專業的品質才能夠進入這些嬰幼兒照護的市場 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2278.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2304.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
否則我們嬰幼兒的這些健康權益還有福祉就會被無照的保母所連累了所以我們這邊主張第90條增訂第5項就是對於無照的保母我們會進行1萬元以上5萬元以下的罰款而且我們主張當他出現一些不利兒童的行為的時候我們主張要停止他服務提供服務那如果呢他沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2304.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2314.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
停止提供服務就會按次連續處罰這是針對第二部分來進行修法那第三部分是兒童權法第97條97條呢是針對49條第1項15款的室友違反的人來進行開罰97條開罰的手段有兩個第一個手段呢就是罰還第二個手段呢就公佈他的姓名但是我們覺得罰還跟公佈姓名還不足以嚇死這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2334.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2340.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
人來對兒少進行一些不當的行為所以我們在97條呢就增設了第三種處罰手段就是公佈他的相片那我們把如何修法的細節呢我們就是把49條第一項15款的事由區分為兩個區塊如果是情節比較重的例如說 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2355.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2377.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
是違反第九款跟違反第十一款這種情節比較重的那我們就公佈他的照片那公佈照片是公佈十年那如果在這個期間再犯了那就是公佈一生永久公佈那我們剛剛有提到說情節比較重的是第九款跟第十一款那第九款是怎麼樣的適由就是你容留引誘強迫 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2378.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2401.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
這些兒少跟你進行性猥褻的行為或者是性交的行為這是第九款的事由聽起來應該是情節蠻嚴重的那第十一款的事由就是利用兒少去拍一些新三色的影片或圖片這聽起來也蠻可惡的所以這兩個比較嚴重的事由就是公佈照片公佈十年如果還不改善那就是一生永久公佈 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2403.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2418.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
另外一個區塊就是情節比較輕的 情節比較輕的就是15款室友排除第9款室友跟第11款室友其他的那些室友是3款室友如果情節比較輕 例如說第一款是惡虐 第一款是遺棄 第二款是虐待這種情節比較輕的 但是又造成兒少死亡 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2424.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2447.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
那這種情形也很可惡我們就是要公佈他的照片但是公佈照片的時間就我們沒有做特別的規範好那不管是針對情節輕的跟情節重的我們都會公佈照片那當然照片的公佈就會涉及個資行為人的個資那當然行為人雖然可惡但是他的個資某個程度也要受到保護所以呢我們這邊就授權主管機關去針對照片公佈 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2449.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2457.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
涉及各自收集處理利用的部分去訂定一個執法來加以規範好那所以剛如同我說的兒童是我們國家未來主人翁他們的健康也好權益也好福祉也好其實人人都有守護的責任那當然我們台灣民眾黨是責無旁貸的會負起守護他們的一個角色所以在這邊提出了三條法條的修正以上說明謝謝好謝謝我們的邱副會務委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2478.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
2502.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
那接下來請蘇清泉委員說明謝謝主席各位同仁還有行政官員蘇清泉代表30位委員提出俄少華第97條的修正草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
2503.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
2529.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
虐待兒童及少年的事件不僅頻繁發生情節日益嚴重每一樁虐兒的案件背後都是一個破碎的童年以及對孩子身心發展造成永久性負面的影響審視過程真的是非常痛心華則過輕缺乏阻嚇的效果我們這一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
2531.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
2547.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
97條,委婉第49條各項規定者,僅除以新台幣60萬以下的華元,面對嚴重身心劣態的行為,這樣的華金難以起到實質的震懾效果,為了讓幸存僥倖者得以 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
2552.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
2579.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
得到教訓我們對於傷害兒少的處罰不宜過輕所以這97條的修訂我們從6萬到60萬調整調整為20萬到100萬希望還有公佈失孽者的姓名名稱規定強化我們社會監督是為了守護每一個孩子的成長希望過去法律的嚴懲向社會傳達 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
2581.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
2603.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
虐兒零容診有些委員還提到加重刑責等等讓潛在的施虐者心生警惕進而有效保護兒少的身心健康跟發展所以希望大家同仁大家支持以上好謝謝我們的蘇清泉委員接下來請李燕秀委員說明共體兩案請一併說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
2608.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
2631.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
感謝昭緯各位委員大家早安今天我要針對這兩個案子的修法要進行提案的說明這兩個案子我的提案的內容跟他名字的核心精神是一致的未來如何補足我們兒童照護系統中長期被忽略的制度跟缺口第一案是有關於居家式的托育服務的評鑑機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
2632.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
2651.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
我們都非常清楚知道我們現在托嬰中心依法我們有一個定期的評鑑機制但是現在對於居家式的托育服務就是我們大家都知道的保母比較沒有一個評鑑的機制所以很多家長對於我們附近有一個居家保母 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
2651.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
2677.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
他的評價到底是怎麼樣都是口語聽說但是沒有一個我們政府單位比較完整的評鑑機制所以在這次修法當中我覺得未來要針對於兩個問題要去做處理也就是說家長缺乏客觀的資訊來判斷保姆的服務品質我們要有一個更完整的資訊第二服務品質的良好不齊我們未來 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
2678.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
2698.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
就是說過去缺少一個有效的篩選跟淘汰的機制也就是說我們必須靠一個公部門的評鑑機制來去補足這一塊當然我們過去這幾年常看到居家托育場域發生兒童的安全事件所以在這一次的修法當中我提案在第25條明定直轄市縣市主管機關應該有一個定期的評鑑並公布評鑑的報告跟結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
2704.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
2709.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
同時也修正第26條把評鑑納入主管機關授權的範圍裡面讓整個制度依法可循有依據可以依循那第二個是有關於藻寮機構的團體服務我們現在根據我們衛福部的統計在111年我們接受藻寮的兒童 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
2725.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
2752.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
已經突破3萬人其中有2800萬兒童是在早療機構接受托育的服務但是我們現行法律當中我們只有規範托育中心應收受兒童辦理團體保險幼兒園的部分幼稚園的部分部分也有高級中等以下學校學生接受教保服務機構的團體保險的保障但是我們唯獨 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
2754.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
2772.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
早療的机构排除在外其实这是一个非常不合理的现象发生就是说状况好正常的孩子无论是送到一般的幼儿园或幼稚园有团保的保险但是对于发展需要接受早疗服务是迟缓需要早疗机构 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
2773.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
2782.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
照顧的孩子卻沒有同等團保的保障所以在這一次修法當中我納入第77條把早期療癒的機構納入應該接受團保的範圍之內我們希望這兩個提案都是建立一個更完整的建立評鑑讓資訊更透明另外一個是補齊保險讓保障可以平等共同的目標就是為我們孩子支持一個更完整的安全網 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
2802.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
2808.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
以上是我兩個案子的提案說明謝謝大家希望大家能夠支持謝謝李燕秀委員那接下來請張雅琳委員說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
2815.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
2832.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
謝謝主席那我想這幾年來台灣發起多起的重大人類案件很多時候我們回到檢討制度會發現有一個共同的問題就是說在行政調查或司法裁定甚至是安置或收養的過程之中孩子往往是被決定的人而不是被傾聽的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
2832.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
2851.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
但是在我們的兒童權利公約裡面其實有非常強調一個重點就是兒少有被傾聽的權利所以呢我認為我們國家有義務的要協助他去說讓他去說並且被納入考量決策所以從現行制度我們來看第一個我們是沒有制度化的一個保障很多社工 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
2852.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
2875.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
法官在實務上會聽孩子的意見但那不是義務那不是他現在的義務所以一旦制度沒有寫清楚的時候就可能被忽略那第二個呢就是他缺乏表達的支持機制孩子他其實不像我們大人一樣可以盡情的去描述盡情的去表達他很多的時候他的表達方式可能是透過遊戲透過 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
2876.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
2892.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
他的绘画等等有很多不同的形式来去支持他说明他自己的想法但是我们现在的现行制度上面是没有这样的足够的辅助方式第三个是在重大的决定的时候其实我们是缺孩子的声音是缺席的 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
2892.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
2916.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
不會是收出養安置甚至停止侵權這些都是改變孩子一生非常非常重要的決定可是我們卻沒有明確的要求一定要去聽孩子的意見所以這次在我的修法版本就做了幾個很關鍵的修正第一個就是我們把表意權寫在法律的核心原則裡面因為這件事情其實在我們多次的國家結論性意見書的審查中都有被提及 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
2917.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
2945.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
所以我就在這個原則上面我更明確的規定兒少可以用言語書面甚至藝術等方式來表達意見那第二個部分就是說在關鍵程序的時候要制度化他的表意權包含就是收出養安置還有侵權裁定都應該要納入兒少意見因為可能法官自己認為他自己覺得怎樣是對兒童最好可是那並沒有聽到兒童的意見的時候就不一定是真正是對兒童最好的一個做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
2946.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
2968.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
第三個就是建立友善的表達環境要求提供獨立空間專業協助讓孩子真的說得出來我想這不是只是一個程序的調整那其實是我們一個根本價值觀的改變因為過去呢我們可能都是要求孩子聽就好了不用說應該讓他無言無恥我想這句話大家都非常的清楚所以過去我們不會 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
2969.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
2985.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
而願意讓孩子多說但是在制度上面我希望我們可以去保障讓我們的價值觀可以徹底的去翻轉從替孩子決定走向讓孩子參與決定那這也是整個世界的潮流那今天早上呢也有好幾個重視兒少的 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
2986.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
2999.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
这个儿少权益的儿少团体呢他们在群衔楼外表达他们的诉求这就是在展现说儿少可以参与重要的公共政策的展现所以呢今天这个修法就是我们让这个制度再持续的往前谢谢 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3000.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3027.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
好謝謝我們的曾阿玲委員那為了會議進行順利因為今天非常多人登記還有並兼顧每位委員發言時間的公平性而且避免影響下一位委員諮詢權利可能要請委員們如果上台發言的話要注意到那個時間否則的話今天可能又會拖到很長也影響到我們的政府部門要回去辦公時間那接下來請衛福部時部長病安說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3028.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3034.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
那請教育部國民及學型教育署戴淑芬副署長請準備好主席各位委員那這個今天成大院這個委員會的邀請就這個兒童及少年福利及權益保障法的修法草案來進行報告那以下的我們就重整 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3057.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3075.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
所有委員的版本做一致性的意見的回應第一個是有關於多位委員提到要修正兒少的死亡原因分析年齡由現行的6歲以下提高到18歲並納入這個死因回溯那麼依據我們在這個113年的統計那麼在18歲以下的兒少的死因裡頭 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3086.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3102.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
那麼六歲以下大概占三分之二那六歲到十七歲這邊是占三分之一那六到十七歲這邊的這個兒少的死亡那麼以這個非自然死因來而言的話呢大概有17% |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3104.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3128.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
分別是交通事故跟自殺就是說已經合計34%那麼目前已經有這個道路的交通安全匯報還有自殺防制匯報等機制在進行處理而六歲以下因為兒童的致速能力比較差所以我們現在是優先針對六歲以下的兒童進行死因分析跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3129.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3152.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
死因回溯的统计分析那么所以我们建议维持原案再逐步扩大那么第二个是有关委员提出要修正收出养媒合服务的政府责任有关强化政府在收出养的服务流程的全责来进行家庭功能跟出养必要性评估还有连结相关服务而且建立于 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3153.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3178.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
收出養媒合服務業者的溝通管道還有這個定期訪視機制的部分那麼本部是競表支持那麼第三個是有委員提案那麼有關於孕婦還有育有6歲以下兒童的停車位新增場域那麼包含這個路邊停車場公有路外停車場兒童休息場 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3179.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3203.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
國家公園國家風景區還有國家生理遊樂區等場域要保留孕婦還有育有6歲以下兒童的停車位並擴大百貨公司還有零售這個量販店的試用範圍那麼我覺得這個是非常好的我們也敬表支持那麼第4個是有關委員特別提出的這個保護兒少隱私措施包含推動 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3205.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3230.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
網際網路的服務年齡的驗證技術網際網路業者的定期發布透明度報告還有配合防護兒少觸及有害身心內容還有兒少各自收集應取得其法定代理人同意案那麼有關這個發展年齡的驗證技術還有這個推動網際網路業者遵行各自保護法還有本法規定來防止兒少 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3230.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3247.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
接觸有害身心發展的這種網際網路的內容那麼我們是非常支持的那麼但是另外在兒少具有發展性的能力那麼在民法有規定這個未成年人的行為能力以外呢來增訂特別的保護規定可能會涉及其 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3248.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3272.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
同意權的限縮跟參與權跟資訊的得知悉權所以需要我們在審慎的研議那麼至於年齡驗證技術的發展還有網際網路業者的智力框架那麼則再請這個速發部還有國家通訊委員會來表示意見第五是委員也有提到那麼對於這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3275.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3278.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
在增訂這個資訊揭露公開資訊的這個相關的規定那麼包含這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3289.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3305.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
那這裡面我們大概有幾個可能涉及到的問題一個就是在我們目前的細則中已經有這個規範什麼哪些是屬於足以識別身份之資訊那麼是否要納入母法的 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3307.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3336.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
規範的那麼這個是可以再討論那另外呢在報導審議機制就個案的裁罰事項那這個應該有個主管機關來機制來這個啟動至於民眾對媒體報導不當的申訴那麼目前已經有這個網路內容防護機構的通報處理機制那麼可以透過廣播電視法還有有利害關係人來請求更正 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3337.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3352.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
另外在徵定保護犯罪嫌疑人或刑事案件被告未成年子女身份資訊及完善審議機制成員等等的建議我們是敬表支持最後是有關違反49條 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3357.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3380.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
罰款額度還有公開這個姓名等這個不利處分的規定那麼目前呢其實在這個耳哨法裡頭第112條呢就已經有加重期刑規定那麼也得這個公開洗衣身份那麼考量行為人呢那麼如果是法定代理人或實際照顧者那麼如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3382.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3410.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
斷然公佈那麼有時候可能會間接的造成兒少身份的洩露所以這個是需要審慎評估的那麼另外在性侵害案件也有登記報導還有查閱機制那麼這個事項分別在性侵害防治法還有這個兒少性剝削防治條例有一些規範所以也可以回到現行制度來辦理所以以上是本部的 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3411.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3426.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
初步意見再請各位委員參考非常感謝大院委員對於兒少權益的重視本部也在進行全文的修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3427.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3443.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
在這個符合這個CRC的精神下那麼包含避免歧視包含兒童最佳利益的原則還有這個生存發展權以及這個尊重兒少參與權的部分呢那麼我們都一併的會把它納入到我們在 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3445.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3471.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
這個院版的這個修正條文我們希望在今天的委員會討論之後我們在參採各位委員的意見略做調整之後盡快的在四月份能夠來進行我們的院版的草案的預告那以上的報告再請各位委員指教謝謝好 謝謝施部長的說明下一位我們請教育部國民及學前教育署戴淑芬副署長說明副署長請 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3475.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
3500.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
主席 各位委員 理事先生 大家好經過大院社會福利及衛生環境委員會安排審查兒童及少年福利與權益保障法修正草案等72案 其中與本部有關是蔡委員其上等21人理據的條文第21條及第90條之1條文的修正草案還有徐委員 辛怡等19人理據的 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
3502.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
3512.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
第23條條文修正草案還有郭委員疫情等20人擬拒的24條之一條文修正草案還有林委員疫情等16人擬拒的28條28條之一53條之一及第108條條文修正草案還有柯委員智恩等18人擬拒的51條之一99條102條條文修正草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
3528.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
3545.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
還有黃委員建兵等十六人擬聚的八十三條一百零七條條文修正草案還有廖委員先祥等十七人擬聚的一百條條文修正草案部層要列席可以聆聽各位委員的意見致感榮幸以下就本部 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
3546.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
3564.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
就該草案的意見提出說明也請各位委員支持跟指導首先我們要表達就是教育部向來保障兒童及少年的福利以權益那相關的做法包括第一我們禁止違法對待兒少確保兒少的生存及發展權 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
3565.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
3591.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
第二 支持兒少身心健全發展 保障兒少的休閒權三 綿密親職教育的宣導 強化兒少保護機制第四 確保特殊需求的兒少的受教權 禁止受到一切的歧視第五 部件適足輔導人力 提供完善的專業服務第六 持續辦理調查人員的培訓作業 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
3593.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
3614.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
那我們對就是各委員的那個提案我也依序提出回應說明第一對於兒童及少年福利和各項權益保障均在權責範圍內全力配合就修正條文第七條的部分委員所提的版本本部予以尊重並且會持續配合主管機關推動相關的措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
3615.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
3637.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
第二點,對於擴大補助對象年齡、民定公共化托育、準公共化托育及實力托育保障標準這個部分而草案所提提高0到2歲現行補助額度提升的部分雖然無涉本部業管,為考量現行0到6歲國家一起養2.0的各項措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
3638.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
3646.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
已經提供家長較為周延的協助談提高0到2歲的托育補助恐連動影響2到未滿6歲就學補助的橫屏性建議能夠審慎研議相關的作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
3656.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
3683.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
那第三點規範有從事對於兒少文化體驗或參與內容之藝文團體應對合作或聘用之工作者附有查詢的義務也就是新增條文24條之一的部分那本部各項教育場域不適任人員通報及查詢系統是為了阻絕不適任人員進入教育場域那整合本部依法建置之各不適任人員資料庫 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
3686.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
3705.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
所以如果有明確的一個法令的依據才可以查詢本系統建制的而不適任人員的通報資料那談修正條文能夠完備相關的法令那本部予以尊重也會配合主管機關來推動相關的措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
3706.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
3723.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
第四有關推動學校安全教育督導高級中等以下學校及專科學校5年至前3年辦理安全教育並明定安全教育含交通安全教材及建立課程時數有關修正條文28條新增條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
3726.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
3739.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
二十八條之一這個部分呢那因為依據二十二年基本國家課程綱要的規定課程設計已經有規定課程設計應融入安全教育那本部已經為請 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
3742.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
3770.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
競選基金會跟公共電視辦理很多的安全教育教材包跟教學影片的研發跟製作並且透過教科書獎勵計畫鼓勵出版業者將交通安全等安全教育的內容放入教科書的內容相關的教案教材教學影片已上到教育雲英才網跟國教署的教學課程平台那我們在修正114年修正發布學校的安全教育的 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
3772.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
3795.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
參考指引已經有提供學校推動安全教育一個完整全面的參考資訊那為了穩健推動安全教育然後能夠符合十二年國教的精神並且保持學校結合地區資源所規劃課程的多元性原建議不納入法規的規範以維持學校課程發展的自主性 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
3796.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
3811.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
第五有關政府制定推動及實施兒童及少年道路交通安全計畫定期評估檢討及公佈兒童及少年交通安全政策推動狀況就是修正條文的第29條跟第90 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
3814.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
3840.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
條之一的那個部分呢因為道路安全交通基本法第三條已經規定中央政府應制定還有推動實施道路交通安全相關的法規還有嚴定道路交通安全的政策及綱要計畫那現在我們在國家道路安全綱要計畫裡頭已經有包含兒少交通事故防治事項 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
3841.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
3859.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
本部將持續配合推動相關的措施所以我們建議這個部分不再另外納入法規的規範此外對於委員有提違反刑法或是嚴重侵害他人權利行為的兒少 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
3860.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
3881.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
增訂家長為配合學校依輔導管教而學生辦法或其他法令所定的輔導管教措施的行政法及接受親子教育輔導規定也就是新政條文的51條之一99條及102條的部分那委員所提修正條文本部予以尊重也會持續 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
3882.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
3897.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
配合主管機關來推動相關的措施那委員所提就是重大額內的個案的處理程序增訂通報及調查機制就是新增條文的53條之一還有這個部分呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
3897.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
3916.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
那本部也予以尊重那另外就是針對委員所提就是福利機構或是兒童課後照顧班及中心的相關的機構增列不得迫使或是誘使兒童少年色情猥褻或性交行為擬定相關的罰則 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
3918.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
3941.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
就修正條文83條107條跟108條這個部分委員所提修正的條文本部也予以尊重也會配合來推動那另外就是在增訂因植物故意隱匿導致兒少有重傷或是死亡的行者修正條文第100條還有修正兒童及少年福利機構的評鑑就是修正條文108條這個部分委員所提的條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
3945.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
3967.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
我們本部也予以尊重那本部將持續落實教育基本法相關的規定保障兒少的學習及受教育的權利並且依兒童權利公約根據精進相關的法令配套措施致力提供完善的就學環境以上報告請各位委員知道那想要內容也請參閱我們的書面報告以上謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
3968.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
3980.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
好 謝謝戴副市長的說明 現在開始詢答 做以下宣告一 有關本次會議各項書面資料均列入紀錄刊登公報二 本會委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
3982.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4006.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
詢打時間6加2分鐘 內席委員4加1分鐘3 10點半截止發言登記4 委員如有書面質詢 請於上會前提出 預期不受理5 暫定10點半 休息10分鐘6 詢立本日不處理臨時提案現在請登記第一位委員林月琴召集委員發言林委員請 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4012.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4015.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
我們請石部長來有請石部長部長今天在這邊我要為台灣的400萬的孩子來請命燒犬法從100年修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4026.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4043.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
那這15年當中變化很多第一個首先我們103年就有兒權公約施行法那可是你的兒少權法到底符不符合我們的兒權公約應該是沒有雖然中間經歷過了所謂的三次的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4045.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4073.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
六年來都有修法那每一次都是修了大概一兩條而已根本沒有辦法符合兒權公約剛剛部長自己在報告的時候也講說最佳利益然後生存發展權可是15年來到底有沒有符合孩子最佳利益甚至生存發展權有沒有能夠保障甚至表意權這些那四大原則所以今天早上孩子也到我們的群前樓門口他苦苦的等待答案也就是希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4074.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4085.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
兒少全法的大修應該刻不容緩要馬上來做所以我想部長你同意嗎你同意兒少全法要整部大法修而且跟兒權公約事實上是能夠接軌的 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4087.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4112.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
跟委員說明這個我們非常支持啦我們現在的方向也是朝全文修正條文可能超過這個150條啊所以這個範圍非常的大那這中間呢因為這個這個兒權法呢它涉及到很多跨部會的議題所以我們也召開過多少二十幾次的這個會議了那所以已經到了最後的 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4113.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4138.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
這個階段好像在今年我們也開過了13次的法規修訂逐條的在修所以我剛剛在報告裡面也特別提到已經準備要做預告的階段為什麼因為我擔任立委之前五年都很常參與你們的修法的一個會議進來一直以為會列為優先方案也是等了兩年都一直是沒有辦法進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4139.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4157.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
所以我們今年年底就要交CRC的第三次國家報告了根據上一次呢2022年的第二次的國際委員審查的意見書他就很明確的指出說台灣而授權法的落後是結構性的當時的核心意見就是委員會建議政府應該要禁訴 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4160.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4182.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
討論變數審兒少全法讓兒少全法跟公約的精神能夠完全的契合那審查意見帶也提到了是包含我們的死因回溯雖然剛剛部長不同意可是我要告訴你的是六歲以下的死因回溯的這樣子的一個狀況到底真的事實上是滿足到讓我們了解到孩子的死亡原因嗎可真正死亡的 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4183.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4197.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
孩子的年齡層比較高的並不是六歲以下當然當初六歲以下是為了離親家暴 額虐或者是事故傷害啦他替代性照顧的問題也是也要不要去機構化如果沒辦法去機構化要怎麼去處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4198.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4221.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
還有更重要的是事實上現在是數位環境的一個保護事實上是落後的所以我們要部長我們都知道去年1月初你們衛福部其實就已經提出了布板的一個修法草案當時我也表示支持可是遺憾的是只要修法每延拖一天一年那些因為現行制度缺損而沒有辦法解決的兒少問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4222.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4247.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
就会继续多发生一天一年所以孩子的成长不能等我想权力的保障也不应该有空窗期所以我想问部长明年我们又要进行CRC的第三次的国际审查了而到全法的修法期程是不是真的如你讲的4月可以送到公预告然后呢尽数能够送到立法院来否则的话我们很难回应即将来到的第三次的国际审查 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4248.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4275.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
所以我們朝這個剛剛我講的這個方向來努力啦就是說4月份我們進行預告然後在這中間我們也會在辦公廳會來收集意見然後趕快的提出到行政院審查之後來送大院審查就要麻煩部長我們很在意因為15年了尤其又不符合全公約所以我這邊對於這個法的主張第一個要打破單一會議來完善弱勢禁慾的兒少參與一直在講 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4277.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4291.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
孩子的表育權這是四大原則其中一環可是在讓他們參與會議的常常是單一會議而且沒有辦法讓多元的孩子能夠參與也沒辦法多元的方式國際委員講說 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4292.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4311.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
今天即便孩子畫圖你都要去理解而不是要口語表達能力很好的人才能夠站在你們會議當中去說明甚至如果他是聲音障礙他講話講得那你們也要聆聽可是似乎我們的會議當中沒有辦法具備這樣在篩選的時候常常是比較精英制的這個一定要去考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4311.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4340.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
第二就是源頭的預防才能夠救命死因回溯剛剛部長講說因為已經有做六歲你們希望維持那抱歉我非常反對為什麼這樣提因為國內外的研究都指出完善的死因回溯可預防五分之一到四分之一的死亡如果我們自己從我們CDR的那個資料也看到了大概有26%是屬高度可預防避免死亡的那如果說你如果沒有做這個那你大家就會不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4340.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4368.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
更何況我們今天重中之重無照駕駛的交通死亡跟自殺的風險都集中在青少年為什麼不可以擴到18歲一定要堅持在6歲以下那問題是你的事故傷害監測資料又不能夠出來然後死因回溯又不能做所以我們已經生的這麼少可是孩子死亡數遠高過於日韓如果我們生不贏人家死的又比別人多那不是國安的問題嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4369.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4391.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
所以部長我不知道說為什麼這個不能做到這個跟委員說明這個18歲以下的所有的死因分析是我們做所有政策上最基本的依據這個絕對要做那我剛剛的報告只是在講從6歲到17歲這邊的死因一半是屬於自然死那另外一半 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4392.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4419.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
這個不是自然死的部分非自然死或病死的部分呢有34%就含納了自殺跟事故所以他跟6歲以下不同6歲以下是88%是屬於自然死或病死其他他是非常diversity非常的分散所以他再加上他表意權的問題他的致訴能力比較差所以應該先從6歲以下去做死因回溯這個是很對的 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4420.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4446.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
但是在六歲以上不是說不做分析 還是要分析對 可是你自殺 你用不去分析自殺已經是我們死亡原因的第二高位所以我的意思是說自殺有自殺防治匯報 應該要去做他的做法已經在做了那拿出原因來 拿出分析來為什麼因為今天我們如果講說微型電動二人車死傷到底哪一個年齡層最高 拿得出來嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4447.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4471.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
就是要拿出數據我們才能夠去做分析的時候才有對應的政策沒有數據你根本拿出來政策事實上是沒有辦法回應所以這為什麼我認為使用回收跟事故傷害監測資料要一併要來處理那另外一個就是替代性照顧國際委員在審查的時候他就說我們的安置人數未減我們孩子越生越少可是安置人數是成長的那公立機構呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
4472.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
4490.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
事實上非公立機構接的比例事實上是持續升高的顯示我們現行制度沒有辦法有效的回應需求那國際委員在2017年的時候說你要不要去機構化可是2022年來的時候他說我們看起來是沒有辦法去機構化的話那你們的短中長期計畫是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
4492.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
4507.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
那的確我們的技嘉事實上是往下降然後技在我們的也就安置在機構的越來往上升所以在這樣的狀況底下是不是要去討論到底怎麼去做因應我覺得這個是要來處理的那 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
4508.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
4535.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
主張是就是希望有沒有更好的一些防護措施因為今天數位已經是造成孩子的一些風險的時候對沒有錯網路帶來好處是讓身障的孩子弱勢的孩子呢可以在網路上交友然後學習知識可是他相對的也是帶來風險齁在數位原生代的時代我們兒少面臨的是隱喻式的霸凌像我想這兩天也是永和齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
4536.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
4554.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
發生了這樣的事情那就網路上擴散擴散的是讓受害者的影像我們也很擔心可是怎麼去做這些處理甚至身為技術的一個威脅我們現行的是6條跟69條對網路的保護已經是非常不足夠的了所以你都可以把因為保護0到2歲的只有2條保姆5條 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
4560.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
4580.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
我們的托嬰中心你都可以拉出來做專法為什麼我們的網路一直是沒有辦法在這一塊裡面放進去所以為什麼有修的必要性所以我們也希望在網路這一塊能夠放進去最後就是能夠引進澳洲的兒童工作證的制度來從源頭把關因為畢竟接觸孩子的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
4581.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
4602.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
有這麼的多那到底哪一些需要我覺得可以來做討論所以這次修法我們也希望參考在澳洲已經有進行25年的兒童工作證的制度來能夠為我們的兒童在跟他接觸的人能夠來做資格的把關所以希望部長這邊是不是給台灣400名的孩子一個莊嚴的承諾請問衛福部 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
4605.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
4623.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
是不是今年內一定可以來做你四月如果能夠預告然後兩個月之後可不可以送進來所以不要因為孩子沒有投票權我們就忽略他們再麻煩部長也麻煩部會我們一定在年底之前送到立法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
4624.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
4651.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
不能年底之前因為我們已經等了很多年我們還要有一些程序我們會境外我剛提到的四月份我們會來進行那我想民間團體會非常的有意見因為已經在我說我進來當立委的時候就已經是你們修法就已經討論了五年了然後進來又兩年的時間總共七年的時間這十五年來真的很多變化這個兒少權法已經不呼應我們現在兒少的需求了謝謝好 我們來加速 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
4651.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
4657.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
好 謝謝林育群召委的發言謝謝市副長等官員的回應下一位我們請廖偉祥委員發言請 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
4692.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
4694.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
好 謝謝主席 有請石部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
4699.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
4716.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
請吃 部長部長 你是不是有點鼻陰 有感冒嗎請保重 你是我們健康的代表健康台灣 靠你很重要所以我第一題要先來問一下部長今天聯合報有寫到這個衣檢擁塞 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
4718.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
4732.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
不曉得你有沒有掌握這個狀況因為本席呢在第一線其實有聽到很多這樣的聲音這個包含放射師的部分就是說現在很多大醫院或是醫療中醫學中心在這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
4733.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
4750.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
要做電腦斷層的時候很多時候都要滿到半年後或者是好幾個月那其實這也嚴重影響病人的權益而且你們健康台灣很重要在講的事情是有關預防篩檢結果做了這麼多結果現在這一塊好像 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
4751.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
4769.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
發生了很多問題而且已經看到問題了也不是這一兩個月才發生的部長你怎麼看好 跟委員說你確實從健保的資料來看這個電腦斷層的檢查量是逐年的在增加那再加上我們推出的這個肺癌Low-Dose CT的篩檢 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
4770.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
4794.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
那雖然說我們有一些公費篩檢的對象可是因為有這個外溢的效果所以很多自費的健康檢查也納入了這個Low Dose CT所以讓這個量不斷的在增加所以我已經請國健署在開始要規劃要用轉診的方式啦我跟你講轉診是一回事啊但是我跟你說很重要的關鍵是這個放射師的待遇 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
4795.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
4823.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
在裡面的想出來在外面的不想進去這個很重要請不要再重蹈我們護理人員過去的問題你等到已經發生了你要補救就還要花很多時間來不及而且這些病人的權益就被犧牲了所以除了醫師之外的醫事人員整體的待遇評估是不是應該要去檢討因為等你發現的時候你要再去培養然後再去找到這些人你都來不及了是 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
4823.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
4837.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
好這個部分我在這因為時間有限我等一下還要討論兒少的事情這個部分是不是請這個部長你可不可以回去一個月以內去檢討給本席辦公室一個報告除了方設施之外還有其他的醫事人員的待遇的問題還有這個缺額的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
4839.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
4862.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
好這個我們已經在注意了那特別是我們也發覺到醫檢師跟醫放師他的薪資相對是比較低所以我們現在所以我們其實在已經跟很多工會接觸都有發現這樣的問題所以請部長到時候提供本席辦公室精確的相關數字這是第一題那我接下來要跟你討論一下因為今天有關於這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
4863.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
4879.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
這個兒童及少年福利與權益保障法的懸答所以有幾個關於這個相關的兒少議題要請教部長首先呢其實去年有爆發多起的兒虐相關新聞那讓社會大眾對於這個改善居家托育人員制度也有不少的討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
4880.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
4895.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
部長這個公共政策參與平台在2023年也曾經有一個關於改善居家托育人員的制度陳情書的連署也破了6000人的連署共同表達訴求喔那你們還有在上面做出回應請問這件事情你有沒有印象這個因為當時候我還不是我比較還沒有當任部長我比較沒有印象那你們那個相關的有沒有印象好沒關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
4908.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
4920.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
針對大家提案要將這個托育人員新增心理衡健的部分你們當時的回應是尚需洽詢本部心理健康師專業意見心理衡健是透過由專業團隊或個別心理師時可認定 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
4924.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
4939.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
又有又何種結果與限制職業之關聯性仍進一步待釐清那後來對於托育人員的心理評鑑你們有落實任何的具體措施了嗎跟委員說明我們這個新鑑師的確實有找了專家討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
4940.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
4967.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
那麼因為考慮到現在這個心理橫見的工具還沒有到很有效的準確的可以作為預測這個高壓或高風險人員的狀態那麼這個工具的準確度還需要再發好那第二個是說這個心理橫見它最依賴的就是這個被橫見者的意願 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
4968.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
4989.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
他如果沒有醫院的話好部長那我接下來就接著說啦所以其實近年來心理健康也是我們一直很著重的方向啦那例如先前對於男嬰10報或10次的這個夜性保姆就是不是凱凱案那一個是在面對審判的時候也聲稱自己患有孔嬰症那甚至多起的案件都認為保姆患有衝動性的情緒問題那與此同時其實我們有看到在英國的這個OFSTAT |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
4994.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5021.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
就是教育標準他有要求所有登記的保姆必須登記前填寫健康聲明表那當然其中也包括這個心理評估的環節啦那國際保姆協會呢也都有建議要納入情境式的提問啊壓力測試等基本的心理評估因為部長在司法上保姆當然可能有一些會用這種所謂心理疾病作為一個脫罪的藉口但是對於小朋友孩子來說他的生命只有一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5022.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5047.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
但是我們現在也不是說你要一下子走到那麼強制因為包含這樣的過程中有一些測試是到底有沒有用可是可不可以推動一個保母心理健康檢查的補助或是推動一個類似認證機制制度就是是用一個鼓勵性質的然後等於是他有經過這個評鑑之後可不可以讓這些家長會更安心或者是對於他們會就是說更想要 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5048.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5073.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
經過這樣子的認證的保姆他們可能更喜歡或是更安心這樣部長這個部分可不可以我想可以從兩方面來看第一個當然就是向委員所提議的那麼來做一些發展這個工具看看能不能夠我們再找這個請新建師再來找專業團體研究看看向委員的建議那第二個當然是對於這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5074.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5100.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
職場的這個警覺性就是發覺到你的這些員工裡頭這些托嬰托嬰場所的一些異常的行為的sign這個我想這個也可以來做對對對所以這個部分你應該要去趕快去去做這樣子的機制好不好雙方都要去做所以我想要再請教一下其實當初在公共政策的審議平台也有要求增加保姆實習職前訓練 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5102.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5124.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
那你們本部社家署也有回應是回應說會洽詢彰化縣政府有關辦職前實習訓練經驗後再與這個地方政府啦跟居家托育服務中心討論他評估可行性那後續的執行進度如何那有沒有針對這個保姆推動全國性統一的職前實習制度這個實施的期程有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5127.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5147.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
來 這個是不是 我請這個署長來說明一下目前的辦理情形因為其實 請說是 公務員報告 那有關之前實習的部分現在有的確實是有部分的縣市在推動那有些縣市在推動確實有面臨到一些困難主要是因為實習的場域的部分如果是居家托育的部分等於要有保姆 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5147.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5176.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
願意讓這個新進的新手到他的家裡面來實習所以在實習場域的部分的協調確實有部分的縣市有遇到一些那個推動上的困難所以目前是比較沒有全面性的來做這樣的工作你應該要趕快去評估因為這個地方上你說要參考地方政府的意見以及實施後的成效這個地方政府彰化縣就已經直接說考量本計劃其實是有實質上的幫助喔還有實質上的幫助然後能提升居家托付 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5176.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5185.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
推服務者的專業技能等等的故建議持續辦理所以你們應該趕快去推動或者是說了解他們你們可以協助些什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5186.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5207.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
是不是 因為如果已經有效的事情你這樣子放任各個地方不同意的標準其實也不對吧我認為你們應該趕快去做這個方面的這個推動喔那最後喔 因為我知道在參考那個彰化的對啊 你們應該去參考彰化縣的沒有 因為你 其實你之前就已經講過了所以這是已經拖很久了其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5209.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5224.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
所以請部長去盯好不好因為這看起來是有問題你之前說會參考他的狀態結果他已經說了結果你沒有不做然後也不去推動那另外就是另外還有一個問題就是說當初 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5226.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5243.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
針對民眾要求地方政府落實於其官網登載違法托育人員案情及資訊應與本部社家署建置CRC的資訊網違反兒少法的裁罰專區呈現的資訊一致就你們掌握目前資訊有沒有一致 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5245.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5267.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
登錄的部分就是把那個有裁罰的案件通通把它登錄這個都是請地方政府要這個如實登載應該是有你們有嗎你確定我跟你說部長我去查了一下我們辦公室也去追查一下結果事實上是沒有一致社會上非常關心這個發生在高雄林園的這個胸口碎大石的連環虐童案 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5268.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5288.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
你有沒有掌握因為陳其邁還為此震怒喔這個部長應該知道嘛對不對結果我去查了一下你們CRC的資訊網其中針對這一件這個完全矚目的這個案件啊那這個負責人叫做謝信負責人喔他旗下在高雄開了三間基本上可以說是劣跡斑斑啦一直到這個邱俞瑄議員開記者會之後然後這個陳其邁市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5291.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5313.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
大動作震怒連續開罰然後解約一路罰到他不能經營結果我一查就有一件奇怪的事發生了因為根據幼兒通的公式公開的資料這位謝信負責人曾經在高雄開過的幼兒園不是三間其實是四間這第四間是經濟部自來水股份有限公司第七管理處的 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5315.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5334.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
職場互助教保服務中心那這筆資料在幼兒園資料站裡面也有那他裁罰的時間分別有2024年3月27然後還有2024年的4月18所以這個幼兒園通跟幼兒園的資料站都有但是你們CRC的網站上關於這一筆不當對待 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5336.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5358.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
幼兒的案件的公開的資料是沒有看到的那無論是用這個高雄市的這個愛與關懷教育發展協會去查這個用他的名字這個負責人名字去查就是不會查到這一筆的裁罰不會查到這一筆裁罰所以甚至是在這個案發的陸竹區我也有直接去查過也是一筆都沒有那 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5358.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5388.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
都是在你們中央部會下面的相關的這個部會喔但是你們資訊是沒有一致是什麼原因還是是市府沒有落實登報還是怎麼樣跟委員說明因為我們現在CRC主要是針對違反兒少法的在這裡這個就處分依據是依據兒少法處分的那就會登錄上來那剛剛這個案子呢他是根據那個教保法來的所以他就沒有登錄他是屬於教育部所管的 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5388.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5403.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
對 我也查過了所以我就知道你會這樣講但是我要告訴你一件事那你們不是要保護而上嗎那你們這個資訊跨部會都斷鏈了那怎麼辦咧那資訊就散落在不同的部分這樣子你們要不要跨部會去溝通一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5404.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5430.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
這個我們現場也有教育部的代表我們再來溝通看看因為部長還有一個很嚴重的問題因為這一家我剛剛講的這個社團法人高雄市愛與關懷教育發展協會其實他早在2024年的8月份他早在2024年8月份就已經被嘉義市政府公告考評不通過了那這部分你沒有掌握有沒有讓各個縣市知道這是一間評鑑不及格的單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5432.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
5456.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
你懂我意思嗎?你們這等於是斷鏈嘛你的資訊並沒有整合在一起啊我們來一個跨部會的討論一下就是剛剛提到的有的是教育局處分的那如果是教育局處分的部分看看是不是也把它要把它怎麼樣的這個鏈結在一起所以你的橫向跟垂直的這個資訊整合完全是散落的 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
5457.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
5480.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
這個是一個我們如果要講說兒少權利我們要從兒少保護的角度出發我們其實我本席當初也講過你這個層級好像不夠你沒有辦法跨部會的去整合這些資訊所以是不是由部長你帶頭去整合這個相關的單位請這個資訊去把它整合起來因為我跟你說這很嚴重不好意思主席再給我一下我整理整件案件的時序 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
5481.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
5503.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
這一家社團法人其實在2024年4月就已經跟這個經濟部合作的幼兒園就有不當對待的事情了到了2024年的8月更是被嘉義考評不通過那這個就是如果你們當時橫向聯繫和裁罰管理得當的話高雄市他其實在2025年就會知道這一家社團法人在2024年就有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
5504.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
5526.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
如果當時他們就提早知道的話他還他會不會就這樣就會提早阻止這件事情發生因為你這整件事情小朋友這個胸口被所謂的胸口碎大石啊一直等到10月底被議員踢爆被國民黨的議員踢爆市長才知道才震怒趕快處理亡羊補牢那這就是我們前面講的嘛就是這個一個小朋友的生命 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
5527.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
5534.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
是很寶貴的如果你前面就已經把資訊登載確實有沒有可能就阻止這件憾事發生 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
5535.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
5559.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
我想我們很難是這個預測不過透過這個一次一次的經驗我們再進進這些系統就好像這個CRC這個專區原本散落在各衛生地方的我們現在把它集合在一起那現在再把它跨部會再來整合對 所以這就是資訊整合的問題所以我最後一個建議請社家署也把兩個資訊的查詢系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
5561.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
5583.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
整合成一個不然家長也不知道從哪裡查起還有兩邊跑來跑去因為是現在技術應該很快可以把這些資訊整合好所以最後的結語就是說我們希望衛福部一個月內可以交這個所謂CRC的裁罰專區跟各地方政府官網幼兒這個幼兒園通教保網的資料全面性的比對結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
5584.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
5609.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
好第二件事情就是這個完整的時序從這個卸信案從裁罰到停業的完整時序以及各機關應該要做的責任歸屬第三個是跨機關資訊串接的改善方案跟實施的時程好這一個月內我希望要有這三件事情好不好部長好可以喔可以要記下來喔可以好謝謝好謝謝廖偉祥委員那等 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
5610.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
5629.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
待會蘇清泉委員詢答完畢後休息10分鐘那接下來請邱惠璐委員PPT |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
5643.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
5670.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
好 我們有請衛福部長好 請示部長部長好好 救援員好我今天要跟你交流的問題呢是關於少子化的問題如何搶救的議題這樣子那我想這個少子化的問題呢實在是非常的嚴重那已經是這個國安層級的議題了那我想這是不爭的事實所以如何呢我們要來這個搶救少子化 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
5671.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
5700.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
刺激台灣新生兒的生育率我想這個是當務之急那這個衛福部的一些努力我們過去其實也有看到就是過去8年編列了很多預算預算高達5931億那我們就是很納悶怎麼預算越編越多但是新生兒越生越少讓我們覺得實在是有一點匪夷所思 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
5700.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
5705.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
那這個關於預算的編列 5931億這麼添加的一個數字居然讓我們出生率出現一個腰斬的一個局面2016年還有21萬的新生兒但是到了去年居然腰斬成不滿11萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
5723.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
5748.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
那這個腰斬的一個情形在今年2月又更顯得真的是非常的淒慘怎麼淒慘呢就是單月新生兒的人數還破了7000大關那這個就很像打炸一樣越打越炸真的看到不管是新生兒的數據越來越少打炸越來越猖獗真的是讓人家心有淒淒焉那除此之外我們也觀察到說衛福部有設立少子化辦公室 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
5748.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
5759.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
但是呢搞了半天發現掃紙化辦公室不是實體的是一個虛擬的辦公室這樣子所以我們在這邊想呼籲就是衛福部長也想建議你說這個你真的是要大刀闊斧雷力風行的為台灣催生挽救掃紙化的問題如果你不這麼做 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
5767.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
5775.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
說不定人民的認知不只辦公室是虛擬的可能連部長他們都認為是虛擬的因為感覺好像不存在這樣所以我現在要問部長請問你挽救少子女化的對策是什麼我想跟委員說明這個在 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
5784.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
5812.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
這個出生率降低的部分當然從過去這幾年我們先從這個懷孕這邊做補助生產然後生育的補助然後養育的補助不斷地在做啦但是我想我們都忽略了就是在衛福部的角度來看是這樣但是其實還有其他的因素在影響包含職場的友善包含這個女性一旦 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
5813.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
5838.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
走入到婚姻進入到這個懷孕生產的階段他可能在職場上他的發展那麼會比這個同樣的這個男性上呢是為什麼你們的補助呢所以換言之呢這個層級呢不會是在衛福部的層級他必須在更高的層級所以才會有行政院 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
5839.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
5856.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
這個少子化辦公室不是衛福部的少子化辦公室應該在院裡面我們院裡面另外有在這個關於這個少子女那個少子化辦公室已經是許你這個新聞我們已經知道了那你剛講的措施就是用錢來解決問題但是對於一些硬體軟體的資源相對應要提供上去 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
5860.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
5875.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
那麼也在職場的友善的部分還有後續他降低他的這個居住上的經濟壓力還有各項的措施都一起來我已經聚焦在廣設公托是不是有效的解方之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
5876.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
5894.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
廣射公托公托的反應是很好的你覺得是反應很好但是覆蓋率極低只有4%這個4%怎麼來的我們有實證的資料我們不只是只有公托我們還有準公托準公托是民間業者的努力當然他們的存在也非常的好但是不能因此而說 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
5895.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
5916.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
放鬆於政府的責任他們的存在當然很優你們的存在也應該很優然後產生一家依大利的效果這個我們都知道但是公共的覆蓋率只有4%只有482家482家所衍生出來的覆蓋率只有4%好我現在就問當然那些都存在部長請你不要 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
5917.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
5928.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
我問A答B我問香蕉你要給我蘋果好不好沒有我是針對您的問題在回答我的問題你就是那我的意思就是說公托很少那你又跟我扯到準公托你以為人家有血量的眼睛清除他頭腦嗎不是還包含準公托 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
5933.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
5935.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
482家只收納10743名的0到2歲的嬰幼兒母數當年的母數是27萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
5954.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
5971.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
加減乘除出來的數字就是0.0399我還幫你455到4%請問你認不認為公托我現在在問公托你不要扯到準公托公托是不是還有努力的空間公托大概現在的這個公托的量能大概在17000人次左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
5971.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
5982.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
再加上的准公托4萬多的人士大概已經差不多到6萬人士左右再加上居家的保護人員甚至現在的病人上已經叫過去提升到最長的當然我們也要繼續的推動公托但是我們的預算在去年今年的預算了就沒有辦法去支付 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
5997.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6015.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
所呈現482家的數字但是你們的社家署在2025年說那個公托公設民營的托嬰中心剩下387家怎麼經過一年就有減無增請問這是退步還是物質這個是您的資料錯誤 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6016.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6035.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
我們這個是從你們的官網download下來的啊怎麼可能我們錯誤應該是你們錯誤吧你可能有誤解來我請同仁跟你說明跟委員說明齁現在在政府公辦的部分一個是公共的托嬰中心同時公辦的還有一個叫做公共托育家園加總起來的數字我們現在到 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6040.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6045.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
呃 去年的年底現在總數是530家 同時現在是無數的 是啊 沒錯啊 就是這個數字啊你們的公社名 托運中心387啊 公托的這個呃 家園是143加起來530 沒錯啊沒錯啊 但是衛福部 我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6056.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6076.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
拿的數據就是你說的數據啊但是所以代表公社民營托運中心是387可是我剛講的數字是在兒少專區所呈現出來的數字是482所以一個數字變成衛福部跟社家署各自表述那我們看到一個數字怎麼會有一個各自表述的情形這是資料時間的差距因為數量一直在增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6077.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6100.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
數量在增加那你2024已經482了到2025變387這個怎麼數量增加我們看到的是滑落欸所以我覺得這個數字真的讓我們覺得真的是很匪夷所思啦真的是看著看著笑著笑著因為笑話一場嘛就笑著笑著就哭了到底我們公社名有幾家衛福部的官員傻傻說不清楚一下子是482一下子是378好387那不管 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6103.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6130.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
數字是482還是387看起來就是整體就530嘛那530這些寥寥可數的數字可以承載每年大約10萬新生兒的需求嗎請問可以嗎 部長請問可以嗎那我當然也有觀察到你們過去8年有實施一個叫做社區公托的計畫那由中央政府補助地方政府去設置這些公托但它是申請制的 那請問一下申請案件有多少那既然是申請制就有所謂通過跟不通過的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6132.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6134.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
請問一下數據是如何這個公托我們還是持續的在擴大我們在115年也編列了預算要增加但是因為立法院沒有審查預算我再問你案件多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6151.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6162.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
聽不懂中文我們要用什麼語言來跟你溝通這個我們需要我們的公司就需要來趕快做大工作你回答不出來是不是你回答不出來就直接給全國看你沒有掌握這個數據好但你們現在已經進階到少子女化對策2.0了那這個我跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6171.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6182.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
2.0的預算沒有審查沒有審我們已經三讀通過了是現在擱置在行政院長手中如果你想要動之的話請去跟行政院長沒有審查就具有他的不確定性好那我現在問部長現在這個求財若可求公托若可用申請字會有準駁的問題會有通過不通過的問題那需要曠日廢時的等待 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6192.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6205.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
所以是不是沒有辦法快速滿足廣設公托的目標所以我們在這邊建議中央政府補助地方政府設立公托要入法入而造法是一個強制性的規定就是中央政府在補地方政府設公托這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6208.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6228.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
沒有預算沒有預算已經告訴你718的預算三讀通過了啊你還在講沒有預算沒有審查的話呢就具有不確定性不知道如何執行啊帶頭造謠啊部長請不要做帶頭造謠718的預算已經通過了現在預算擱置在行政院手中所以如果你能夠讓這個方向補給條件不確定性無法執行而造法的話你就再 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6233.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6260.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
協助地方設立共拓這件事就扮演比較積極的角色我們不敢說新生兒的人數會暴增但是至少會略有起色那現在我們台灣民眾黨也感受到不敢生不敢養的原因是因為沒有足夠的金錢所以我們台灣民眾黨提出了一個台灣未來帳戶希望幫兒少準備人生的第一桶金作為他們以後就學或就業的一個後盾請問一下部長覺得這個制度如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6262.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6290.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
我沒有太仔細的了解您所提的這個制度我們是台灣未來賬戶就是新生兒出生的時候給5萬然後他們成長到12年之前的每一年都在存入1萬然後經過這個利息複利的概念到18歲的時候會有大約35萬的規模然後就可以作為他們人生第一桶金去發展他們的事業或者是就學那你不知道那我告訴你這個行政院長的感覺還蠻欣賞我們這個報響的所以他在今年3月的施政報告呢其實是有把這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6292.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6312.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
類似的共享放進去施政報告然後我這邊也分享給部長知道那所以呢我這邊想請教部長可不可以給我們一個月內一個回覆就是中央政府補助地方政府設立公托入法的可行性可不可以評估一下因為我覺得中央政府在協助地方政府廣設公托這件事能夠再積極一點能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6313.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6330.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
扮演一個重要的推手再來剛有提到說目前的這個公托計畫呢是採申請制的那至於申請的案數多少通過或不通過你好像完全沒有掌握但沒關係現在有一個月的時間可以讓你回去寫這個考題可不可以一個月之後給本席這兩個訴求的一個回應 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6332.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6358.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
按照新的這個財化法呢那麼其實地方政府的預算已經大幅的增加那麼依法呢現在就可以去進行這些公托或者是準公托的推動部長我再給你要資料不要再答非所問了我要跟你要蘋果你給我香蕉我是針對要要資料我會整欄都給你沒有問題好給我好那謝謝那請一個月之後呢這個滿滿的水果呈現在我眼前謝謝部長謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6361.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6365.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
好 謝謝邱惠如委員 接下來請蘇清泉委員好 謝謝 謝謝主席 我請部長有請石部長市委員早不錯耶 如火純青現在 呵呵 委員過獎 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6391.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6418.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
我今天要問三個問題先請先我要跟剛剛廖偉強委員我要跟他肯定一下他是一個學氣管的年輕立委然後對醫療很用心很深入那我記得在剛剛就任的時候總執行的時候我就在他前面那個時候他執行陳建仁院長跟薛樂園 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6420.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6434.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
結果兩個人都給他三兩教旨,都給他說他外行,那時候你在做健保署署長吧後來我幫他講話,現在看他很多議事單位都去找他陳情 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
6436.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
6457.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
像放射師啊檢驗師,他們認為他們的薪資太低所以只要強調的就是我們這幾年在拉護理人員的薪資他們還是不滿意啦那其他還有14類的醫事相關人力不然你也要面面俱到啦醫生大家留學到結識都沒辦法處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
6461.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
6486.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
我的感受跟委員一樣啦其實醫生的部分10年沒有調情啦所以我是覺得醫生再扣一下沒關係但是醫事人力你要把它調起來不過我也跟委員說明我們去年的點子很好啦到0.977啦所以醫院多數呢營養也都不錯所以希望呢這個醫院都主動的幫所有的醫事人員調情這個你要給點壓力要給點要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
6490.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
6507.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
道德欠收我一定按照委員的指示給一點壓力這很漂亮啦這個一個醫療要賺不是只有醫師其他面面俱到像今天報紙寫台大醫院一個CT要白半天要怕死人 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
6509.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
6533.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
那就是做綜合嘛做個別業綜合做比較多不然你就要叫那些放肆放肆就要加班嘛加班給的薪酬又不夠高所以這個要去注意啦整版的好來我三個問題第一個現在我們長照3.0說什麼口腔衰弱啦口腔什麼因為我們這裡是亞洲病人他去美國診所所以他說的我都很聽 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
6540.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
6562.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
我們屬於要做口腔檢查的人差不多有50萬人我們人家差不多10幾%嘛所以有2、3百萬65歲這裡面需要去檢查的差不多有50萬人那我們台灣的牙醫師現在有1萬6千多個嘛裡面有在做偏鄉牙醫啦什麼的,看起來像是霸王 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
6565.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
6589.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
所以這位牙醫師 金錢都沒夠嘛現在牙醫師每天都要花錢每天都請不上牙醫師 大家都睡金錢 大家忙著智慧的一堆 你叫他這些人跑去偏鄉離島去做這些 除非你的誘因很高啦所以柏妞 這位牙醫師都沒辦法去又沒人做 現在24%的口腔衰弱 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
6593.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
6620.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
你感冒你少講好了,就講事這位藝術又沒建起,又欠人我們天堅有國外回來託的,託託回來這位你們本來有個案子,說要給人家幾百的,去三頂我跟你講一個例子我們醫院本來有一個王醫師,是馬來西亞的僑臣他要娶台灣人後來有一天他跟我講說,他要回馬來西亞我說欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
6623.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
6643.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
結果他跑去沙巴東馬結果他們馬來西亞是承認台灣回去的醫術執照專科執照都承認但是你必須要去偏鄉6年6年之後你就可以回來都市結果這個傢伙去了就在那邊接了一個地區醫院 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
6644.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
6673.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
結果做得很好,又不是要照啊我就覺得馬來西亞可以這樣幹就是六年他真的六年就讓你就全部,他本來就承認啦所以我們上一次那個海外牙醫師唸回來的這幾百人你給他搞一個每人只能五十個實習當然本土牙醫師、美日的牙醫師他們的聲音都很大但是這些人是一個人力浪費啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
6674.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
6674.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
我們也去託了,我們也扣你的判官都扣過了,這裡都沒得處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
6679.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
6707.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
像命的那樣 他們就抗議 你就點點你現在保證人心你心人心氣相 你獨天下你怎麼處理謝謝蘇委員即使講到這個口腔衰弱這真的很重要因為這個不是只有這個營養的問題還有一些全身性疾病也會跟口腔衰弱有關係特別容易產生一些這個吸入性肺炎感染這些都會跟著來 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
6708.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
6723.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
所以這個我們現在這個口腔師我們口腔師也在示範已經慢慢在示範這個口腔衰弱如何擴大逐步的擴大這個在高齡化的社會是非常重要這個很多到後頭 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
6725.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
6745.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
做五管人生的擦了這個鼻胃管那個要拔鼠的時候也跟這個口腔有關係啦所以口腔吞嚥咀嚼能力這個其實是高齡化社會非常重要的一個意義所以我們會有一個計畫會擴大來推這個主角主角的話這個臉部跟腦部的血液循環會好 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
6747.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
6765.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
比較不會萎縮啦 比較不會痴呆 比較不會好呆所以是真的有效的所以你如果脆氣不舒服 都用喝的 喝柳子或是冠冠喝不透透啦所以主角是非常非常重要所以吃的啊 要補給他們那是真的都很需要 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
6765.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
6781.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
所以過去我們的目標是說80歲的時候有20顆牙齒這個是我們的目標但是最重要的還是這個口腔的功能這個要能夠繼續強化維持住在感謝部長有注意到這一塊但是現在的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
6785.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
6790.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
你還是要處理啦你如果不給他處理就拚了十年 單十年我常常想起那些家屬都在外面陳情我說我們有一個新的部長我來跟他溝通溝通啦你有擔擔嗎我有理解到這個問題的存在啦那當然我們有這個所有的醫事人力都有一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
6807.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
6833.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
這個全官就是這個這個全體的人力總人力啦但是也要考慮到這個地域的差異啦這我會來思考這要積極處理啦我們沒有理由把這些人丟在那邊你要像馬來西亞這樣6年不然給他弄10年嘛也可以啊對不對只要你能夠自己積極你就沒問題第二個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
6836.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
6856.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
這些口腔衰弱,需要很多牙醫師,牙醫師送不來嘛,變成要口腔、口衛師、Hydrinist對不對,這些口衛師、腸關穴,每次都要先在旁邊,他們想要立個法,可以來做,你們都直接幫忙,牙醫師前年會, |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
6858.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
6876.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
一百的理由我看都似是而非啦他們找那些非本科的然後給他叫做牙科助理牙科助理也沒有證照牙科助理可以到山上可以到偏鄉去做那些口腔的衛教口腔的處理嗎這個是違法的所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
6878.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
6893.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
也到要口腔衛生學系這些人也給他們有一個出路跟證明給他們尊嚴、給他們地位、給他們待遇這比邱郎這樣沒用所以我感覺常常聽人家陳情我覺得實在是很辛苦的 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
6897.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
6917.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
我想這個口腔醫學的發展要跟這個醫學的發展一樣他要一個完整的人力團隊要有一個完整就像我們的這個醫學我們有十幾類的醫事人員一樣他需要一個完整的團隊所以我們既然成立了這個口腔師就是想要把這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
6918.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
6941.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
從這個口腔的醫療網口腔醫學的醫療網跟人才這個人力的團隊應該要一併建立起來所以這個口衛師我們會來思考口衛師我們也不會做什麼事情啊也不會做什麼亮點出來沒有你叫護士去做口腔衛生可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
6942.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
6962.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
但是護署現在都欠到他再去護署要五十萬人耶不是五萬人耶所以該到處理的時候我也去找陳時中政務委員他說他不反對口腔衛生是喔還是你實在不反對但是他說他不能死啦說死啦是醫療社會就是說我們要 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
6963.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
6980.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
把這個人力 因為我們現在的人口是下降的所以我們要把這個人力做最大的發揮不要 這個入學之後到後面的職場學用要能夠把它扣起來部長英明啦 難怪得天下 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
6983.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7001.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
這你同意讓他收這個科系然後讓他訓練讓他培養讓他實習這些人都有我是覺得都不錯我看了好幾個好 最後一個問題0到6歲的小孩子健保是不是衛福部還是總中央來吸收 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7003.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7020.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
好不好 要不要答應一下兒童節快到了 兒童節的禮物跟委員說明 其實在六歲以下 很多的這個比如說三歲以下的兒童他的就醫的部分負擔這個已經也在付了 已經在補了 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7021.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7045.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
那如果這個健保費這件事情這個事關重大大家可以想一想看現在有的呢縣市在補65歲以上啊這個6歲以下都不用齁啊中間這一群人壓力很大他又要顧小又要顧大這個是有世代爭取的問題啊這是減輕年輕人的負擔你不要亂講這減輕年輕人的負擔這整個健保的財務要整理得很好他生小孩就沒關係生小孩就要顧著啊這是兒科醫學會幫我拿的你說你搞不好講 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7051.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7078.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
又往開一面這個是整個健保我們要思考是說我們的健保它是Premium就是說它是一個保險制度啦它不是用Task不是用這個稅來做所以這個中間的整個這個邏輯跟它的架構這個財務結構要再重新好好思考國民黨的智庫說0到6歲一年要120億我給它算成沒有啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7081.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7083.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
因為現在的孩子很少,都生了這麼十萬而已所以一年到六十萬,六十萬、七十萬,七十億就有了 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7089.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7115.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
不然像你說的 巴黎 那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那是那 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7116.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7126.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
你講的時間這麼久 所以我沒有抽時間謝謝 部長加油謝謝委員 謝謝那接下來我們休息十分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7145.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7145.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7160.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7161.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
這間餐廳的餐廳是一間餐廳 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7177.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7178.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
感谢观看 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7732.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7743.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
好 我們繼續開會 接下來請王育民委員發言謝謝主席 有請部長 有請史部長歐元早 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7750.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7767.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
部長我要先問你這個兒少法修法你在去年其實有邀民間團體公聽會參與討論但是本席聽說去年上半年之後你們將近一年的時間你們整個修法的進度事實上也都沒有再邀民間團體做任何的參與了 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7769.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7788.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
所以民間團體根本不知道你現在最後的版本長什麼樣子那你們怎麼會修到後面就變成是關起門來了不繼續找團體因為前面開了很多場之後要整理的啊所以沒有脫離那個範圍你們只是在細部去修那個架構跟原來是一樣應該一百多條耶 一百五十條 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7789.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7808.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
本席要建議你任何的政策因為特別是社會福利政策事實上跟民間團體大家還是息息相關你應該是要廣納建言盡量把門打開而不是把門關起來所以即使你最後定稿這個版本我希望你跟民間團體還是要有溝通的管道要有一個會議讓大家表達意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7810.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7835.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
跟委員報告我們四月會預告同時會在全國在辦公廳會會在辦嘛那請你務必要邀請兒童團體大家共同來參與好不好那接下來也是問到政策的問題最近這個大幅放寬的12歲以下兒童家裡面只要有一名就可以去聘這個外傭這個制度衛福部竟然沒有任何專業意見部長你說樂見其成 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7839.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7867.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
那我們一方面在修這個耳托專法我們對於保母我們對於托嬰中心我們其實是從安全跟品質就是來嚴格把關的但是新的這個制度你是讓外傭直接進到家庭一個12歲以下的兒童就可以有一個外傭然後這個外傭不用受過任何的訓練那他進到家庭以後他不會進行幼兒照顧的工作嗎一定會吧這無可避免吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7869.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7880.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
跟委員報告因為這個政策主要定位在家庭幫傭並不是取代保母所以我們那些居家保母那個都還是有那如果家庭幫傭幹嘛去規範12歲以下的孩子我們之所以說會樂見其成主要是 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7885.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7900.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
考量到說讓這個家長啊父母啊能夠多一些有這個家庭幫庸來協助他處理其他的家務好部長我問你一個問題這一個政策請問衛福部有沒有做過政策評估 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7901.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
7920.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
宣布4月13號要上路之前衛福部有沒有做過任何政策評估的會議有沒有開會 有的話開幾次什麼時間 有在院裡面開了幾次會議有的我說你們自己的政策評估會議衛福部自己有沒有召開政策評估會議邀請相關的托育團體大家針對這個議題來討論一下有或沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
7926.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
7953.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
我們主要是配合勞動部那麼在行政院裡面去所以你沒有表達你的專業意見嘛對不對始作俑者就是勞動部啦跟你沒有關係但是這個放寬的是家裡面有12歲以下的兒童跟你當然也有關係我要問的是原來的這個救治是要三名六歲以下的子女或者是四名12歲以下的子女其中兩名要六歲以下 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
7954.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
7977.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
這個標準坦白講是蠻嚴格的或許可以說是過度嚴格今天政策討論要放寬當然也可以但是所有政策形成的過程當中不需要專業意見不需要民間團體意見也不需要衛福部有一個專業的討論你看一下子從三名六歲以下子女放寬為一名還十二歲以下的兒童 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
7978.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
7984.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
這個幅度 部長你只講樂觀其成從你的衛福部的專業 你沒有覺得放得也過寬了一點嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
7985.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8002.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
我想這個勞動部都做過完整的評估這個跟你有關係過去我們在講長照的議帖勞動部也都拉著你們衛福部要表示意見因為老人也是你要管的今天這個跟兒童有關當然你也要表達意見但是很可惜我覺得因為是總統說了算總統想要推動的政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8007.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8028.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
所以專業部門都不敢表達意見而且還鬧雙標不會啦這個應該也都是很多這個民間的聲音有嗎民間很多聲音是要放寬就是12歲以下兒童只要一名就可以聘外用有嗎大家都是希望能夠減輕你不覺得這個幅度有過寬嗎家務的壓力啦這也可以讓這個婦女願意 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8033.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8050.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
部長我是覺得你不需要再捍衛這個政策這有審你的專業了這個政策明天我會繼續問勞動部了這個是勞動部要大幅放寬的怎麼弄了一個這麼雙標的政策出來這個政策不是不能討論但是我覺得你們缺乏 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8051.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8070.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
整個政策形成過程意見的收集到政策的風險評估各方面你都沒有做然後突然就一個宣布說4月13號上路這個就政策的施行順序來講這是不及格的這個完全就是上面交辦然後就是直接照辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8071.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8075.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
有討論過嗎 我們外防委員會從來沒有一個專案在討論這件事啊我們也沒有開過任何公聽會啊 你們連一場公聽會都沒有直接就是宣布了所以這件事我要表達我的意見就是你們在政策評估上面非常不及格那現在就民團要求你們必須提出政策評估報告這是你要提的還是勞動部要提的 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8094.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8109.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
我們是搭配這個勞動部所以是勞動部嘛好我明天再問他在這件事情上這個雙標我個人覺得是非常的嚴重另外還有一個重要的議題我要問你就是在這一個今天兒童法修法第69條 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8112.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8125.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
69條我們可以看到本席這邊其實是有版本的也有其他委員有版本那這個主要是來自於之前這個台北市發生幼兒園連續性侵案那媒體覺得是不是應該要報導 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8126.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8152.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
然後呢有人報導很多然後這個衛福部看起來這個也沒有什麼樣的意見一下子說媒體是可以報導的一下子又說不行我們現在又回到這個兒少法那你們最新的意見就是69條你是覺得根本就不需要修那我就問一句如果都不修正的情況底下未來發生類似就是如果有某幼兒園又有連續性侵的事件請問媒體可不可以報導媒體報導的依據到底是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8156.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8173.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
因為我的修法版本我要求的是第一個中央要有一個統一的標準而不是各個地方政府按照各自的標準這個標準不應該是多標準而是只有一個標準第二個是你要有適度的市井的機制因為有的調查過程非常冗長 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8175.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8192.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
如果你資訊完全的封鎖然後不提出來的話可能家長也沒有那個意識不會就是覺得說這一區可能有發生這樣的事件他可能會多留意孩子的安全那你們如果完全都不修法那就是造就造就現在的狀況我就問你未來如果再發生類似這樣的案件 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8196.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8224.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
那你怎麼樣讓家長得到示警的效果你怎麼樣讓媒體在一個就是它是一個重大事件的時候它可以符合公共利益跟媒體報導可以取得一個平衡當然也有的版本是大幅的放寬就任意的報導這個我也不贊成但是我覺得主管機關一定要扛責啊你們事實上可以在中間扮演一個平衡的角色而少的隱私跟媒體報導的公眾權益之間你是可以有一個機制去做的我提的版本就是希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8225.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8243.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
你們可以建立一套機制那為什麼你們還是反對跟委員說明就是69條當然這是基於保護兒少的最佳利益來考量的但是確實也如這個委員特別提到在某些情況之下也要適度的揭露這個也是一種擴大的保護 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8244.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8261.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
那麼因此呢我們有發布一個媒體報導兒少及性暴力的事件指引這指引裡面有特別提到假設這個是加害人是一個成年人那麼他在事情發生之後還在調查中調查確定前或調查成立後 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8262.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8286.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
仍然在某一些机构服务这一些未满18岁之人的时候得以适度报道这个就是符合刚刚您讲的这个所以我们有一些指引哪些情形之下那么可以揭露到什么程度哪些是绝对不要揭露那这个我们有这个指引在那未来在修法的时候是不是要让它变成有一个授权的法规 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8287.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8302.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
那麼我們現在是用指引那麼未來是不是要讓他有一個授權的辦法出來我們可以討論我認為指引的位階太低了事實上這件事情就應該是從母法裡面給你們授權然後建立一套辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8303.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8306.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
那這樣的強度就是各個縣市市場大家執行起來這一個標準應該都是一致化的這個有困難嗎沒有困難我們就是現在有個指引那未來我們在修法的時候我們把它用一個授權的法規出來讓這指引的位階更高 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8320.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8349.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
那我希望這個修法本席這個版本將來就是可以納入最後一個是有關於兒少死亡回溯的這個問題那你們在這個回應裡面提到說不需要不需要去擴大但是部長我要提醒你現在我們少子化每一個孩子都非常的寶貝每一個兒少的死亡原因我覺得都有必要用政府的力量好好去討論討論跟回溯的目的是要防止 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8350.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8377.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
減少降低死亡率這件事情我個人覺得是非常重要也希望是可以入法但是你們今天的報告裡面呢蠻遺憾的你們的回應非常的保守覺得一切都沒有必要現在做得很完美我必須講現在做得還不夠完美就是這件事情是政府要用力氣去做特別是我們看到青少年的這個自殺的部分你們是說現在有在做 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8378.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8403.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
我可以跟你講現在沒有好好的分析在做並沒有主案去理解那個成因然後好好做所以你可以看到青少年自殺通報的人士這個曲線都是往上升的那這件事情我們現在的政策並沒有防止它下降所以在這樣的情況底下我認為去擴大兒少死亡原因的追溯分析 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8403.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8426.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
到18歲以下真的是有他的必要性部長為什麼你們要反對呢這件事情這個我誤會不是反對啦就是做法上是不一樣就是說我們現在各自有權責了就是在6歲以上的部分我剛剛有特別提到他的兩個他跟那個6歲以下不同6歲以下的死因比較分散但是6歲到17歲 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8429.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8449.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
這個死因上有兩大最清楚的就是交通事故這佔了17%另外一個就是自殺17%而這兩個現在都已經在做但是做得不好可以改進所以如果你在法令明文規定這個是政府的責任的話而且也一定要到位 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8450.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8476.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
事實上那個強度是在增加的就是說他的做法上跟現在六歲以下的做法可能有點不一樣到時候修法我們再來討論但是我要讓部長看到就是說如果這個兒少的死亡率沒有辦法有效的下降你沒辦法找到他的成因那這個對於我們少子化也是另外一個危險啊這我完全同意那這個部分將來修法的時候我們來討論但是我的立場就是應該通通納入而且應該都要分析這個我也認為是應該這樣好 謝謝部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8480.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8483.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
謝謝王育民委員 接下來請邱政軍委員發言謝謝主席 我們一樣請石部長有請石部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8498.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8526.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
邱委員好部長好我也剛剛在這邊坐了一下聽到其他委員講的其實有很多問題我也全部看完你們這個報告我有一個很直接的感覺你幾乎每一條都是原則支持但責任都外推我想先確認一下我們衛福部是不是兒少法的中央主管機關對那你們整份報告裡面幾乎都長這樣本部競表支持讓教育部表示意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8528.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8537.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
請速發部處理或請NCC評估或者是這個需審慎評估啊那不然你今天的報告是在表態還是在轉案 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8539.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8558.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
我想委員提案很清楚未滿18歲兒少死因回溯分析剛剛玉敏委員講的但你們回的是建議維持在6歲以下對不對回溯分析的部分但是其他死因分析到18歲請問部長我們兒少非自然死亡最大宗是甚麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8560.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8575.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
兒少我們分兩塊就是說如果是在6歲以下的話88%是屬於病死或自然死所以12%是非病死或非自然死但是這裡面他就是很分散他很分散如果是6歲到17歲這個族群的話這個大概佔整個的三分之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8581.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8606.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
那麼這裡是54%是屬於自然死跟病死自然死那麼46%是屬於非自然死非病死所以這些風險主要是60%以上還是60%以下那這46%裡頭有34%就是屬於叫做交通事故跟自殺所以這兩個已經目前在做了所以我的意思是說都應該分析因為我們剛剛玉民委員講的 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8609.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8630.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
剛剛講到這個修法的重點就是說最大的風險是在青少年就是自殺的部分我們是要預防但是我們的我看到你們制度只看到這個六十以下的這個風險管理已經在看了因為自殺的部分我們另外有個自殺防治匯報我們也有自殺防治法所以這個權責單位很清楚了 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8631.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8659.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
因為我發現你們把這個責任應該要把它一併來討論不是說把它拆開來因為現在這個匯率這個法就是希望說把這個預防能夠發生率能夠降低這才是重點我講兒少的福利跟權益的保障是非常廣的因為你們講的是怎麼人數太多只會增加負擔我想這個聽翻成白話就是說因為很多所以不想做不是這個意思 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8661.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8688.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
那我再問吼 那我們網路兒少的這個這個部分吼 那談到兒少網路然後這個年齡驗證 平台責任你們都回說 這個是要請速發部啊NCC來處理 這個是在技術面的部分對啊 所以這個主管機關還是你們吼所以我覺得你們應該要整個撐起來不是 因為這個法 擴擠的層面是很廣的因為在孩子的整個 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8690.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8706.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
這個發展的過程當中他會從在以家庭為主的成長過程也會有到學校的教育所以那個範圍非常的廣所以這個法裡面有各個目的事業主管機關應該擔負的責任部長我再請問你剛剛講的現有機制針對第13條的死因回溯那這5年來這個校安通報自殺 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8714.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8725.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
智商人數翻到了3.4倍從4477人暴增到15196人那文綏委員提案是死因回溯從6歲到擴大到18歲啊那你說這個7到7歲現有的也有現有的這個機制嗎對他們會處理如果現有這個機制處理的話他的數據會翻到3倍嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8739.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8767.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
跟委員報告剛剛委員所提到的那個是通報自殺通報因為不等於自殺死亡所以我們很鼓勵通報啦因為有通報才能夠介入所以這個通報的增加那通報的這個死亡的人數呢50幾位維持在那裡沒有一直上去沒有再上去那有沒有辦法降低我們當然要努力讓它降低我們不希望喪失任何一位孩子的生命 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8769.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8783.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
因為你們的機制現在是統計我們現在要的是回溯的分析我們要找到原因這個才是我們立這個法的一個目的再來我看到我們保護監管 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
8785.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
8811.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
自殺通報也有在做分析分析裡面當然他的課業壓力還有他的情緒這些是佔了一部分他跟高齡者的自殺又不一樣我們才有介入從學校的輔導機制的強化做起還有我們也開始去做各種的諮商心理支援社區支援的連結等等的這個都會持續的來做 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
8813.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
8839.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
還有我們保母監管就是說針對25、26條平件入法與結果的公開部長你認不認同家長有選擇權因為現在找保母家長只能看一個登記證你的訪視只是看滅火器有沒有過期環境及不及格這個叫低標我們提案很清楚定期平件入法這個結果要公開上網 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
8840.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
8842.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
那我不知道我們衛福部的態度現在是怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
8844.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
8871.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
居家保姆是不是對居家保姆的評鑑跟委員說明因為執行起來他這個難度會稍微高一點因為這是他的家啦所以要用一致性的標準評鑑比較難不像機構式的他是他的家居家保姆那所以我們現在採用的方式是用仿式的方式去仿式因為每個家的情況都不太一樣你很難一體可是你仿式的標準很低啊不是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
8872.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
8886.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
那可以來檢討可以來檢討是不是這個問題我也希望你們把它列入啦例如那個房市的內容啦或者是頻率啦這些都可以來分層級分級的來管理來提高這個保姆的這個素質這些都可以做 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
8888.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
8906.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
再來就是我們剛剛講的這個加害人保護傘的這個假面具就是這個部分就是說我們當然我們是現在因為各自法的問題所以牽扯很多問題但是我還是希望我們部裡面能夠找到一個折衷的辦法就剛剛玉銘委員也提到 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
8908.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
8932.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
這個我們希望說在這個裡面尋找一個辦法讓這個能夠讓我們有一個警示的作用然後呢讓這些加害人他未來不太敢去做這樣的事情啊所以有兩個部分跟委員說明一個部分是媒體報導的部分一個是加害人資訊揭露的部分那對加害人資訊揭露的部分因為我們在 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
8933.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
8944.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
資料分析裡面可以看到在額內跟家暴很高的一定的比例是屬於同居者這個他的監護人或者是家人所以呢如果公佈的態勢怕 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
8946.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
8962.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
兒少的本身的資料會被間接的被identify出來所以這個我們也要在保護的情形之下剛剛我們蘇信憲委員也提到就是我們那個0到6歲0到6歲這個免健保然後他預估你們預估是多少錢120億 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
8964.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
8994.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
還是100億100億左右大概100億嘛對不對那有沒有這個我們部裡面態度是怎麼樣因為這樣去考慮到幾個就是說我們現在對於6歲以下的兒童的弱勢者的健保費已經補助了那另外在3歲以下的部分負擔也已經補助了這個是使用率最高的地方啦所以如果連這個健保費其實他們用掉的都已經及繳的健保費多很多啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
8995.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9009.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
剛剛有查到一個啦就是說三歲以下的這個部分負擔已經有在補助嘛這個是從好像民國90年左右就開始了那當時我大概預估大概一年大概是17億元 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9010.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9036.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
那因為現在少子化啦我建議部長像這個部分0到6歲的部分負擔是不是可以提前先來做就是說因為現在少子化也許這個部分啊當時是生育率比較高一點那現在越來越低不當然10萬嘛是不是這個部分有機會就是0到6歲這個部分負擔我們可以先做我們來研究一下那部長請你這個認真考慮一下啦好不好好謝謝好謝謝委員謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9039.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9061.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
好 謝謝邱政軍委員 接下來請王振旭委員發言好 謝謝主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9067.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9086.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
那今天有兩個題目要來請教我們衛福部的長官們包括一個就是死因回溯強化自殺防治大家已經討論很多第二部分是兒少醫療保護工具標準化及普及可以麻煩石部長還有我們興建師陳師長石部長跟陳師長歐二元好部長好 師長好剛剛已經討論非常多有關於這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9096.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9126.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
如果我們的兒少死亡能夠做好原因分析的話理論上理論上因為我們三位都是在醫界工作可以很清楚的了解未來我們的防治重點應該要如何能夠更優化這個是好多好多委員都有跟您做了這樣的這個需求所以我還是根據這個部分也能夠期待有更深入的一些探討因為我們知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9127.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9154.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
113年的死因統計裡面0到17歲的兒少的死因裡面這個自殺就是蓄意自我傷害是排在第五位可是呢比較令人憂心的是12到17歲的青少年族群自殺是第二重要的死因僅次於事故的傷害而且10年來是翻倍這個是很令人驚心動魄的一個數據所以這個代表我們的防治機制是出了問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9155.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9176.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
不管我們是用什麼樣的處理模式很顯然我們的防治機制是需要再改善需要再優化的那根據兒少全法第13條規定中央主管機關應該每對進行六歲以下兒童死因做回溯分析並且每四年要公佈那這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9177.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9190.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
相信大家都會覺得這樣的法似乎太過不符合現在的需求我們有很好的一個希望去盡盡的空間所以許多會員也都希望透過提案能夠針對6到18歲 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9194.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9209.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
之間的這些比照兒少法的兒童兒少權法的保障範圍其實我們更希望就是這些自殺部分有好的分析有機會在第一時間就能夠把這個寶貴的生命能夠挽救下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9210.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9232.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
那部長今天的書面報告裡面有反覆的強調說6到17歲有道路交通安全匯報還有自殺防治會等的處理模式那很顯然的就是我們剛剛所提到的數據這兩個單位他們在處理上面怎麼精進 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9233.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9250.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
那衛福部是一個主管機關的話那如何能夠共同來把這個工作做好我相信這個是非常非常重要也是所有委員共同期待的部分那我們比較擔心的就是透過這些的個案檢討剛剛這兩個單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9254.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9281.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
有辦法做好相關的努力嗎還有呢我們也比較好奇的就是在去年底的自殺防治諮詢會裡面興建師也共同參與討論那決議是請內政部針對教育部盤點出校園高樓防罪的困難或具體案例來做處理措施對我們來講現在如果是根據去年興建師的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9282.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9311.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
那已經是最後一步的當一位青少年他要從高樓墜下來的時候那已經是最後的結果那前面呢有沒有好的分析這個才是我們所重視的所以我們很希望的就是針對於這個衛生部跟興建師這個兒少自殺目前缺乏系統性的死亡回顧跟預防性的政策規劃這個才是防治的缺口那不知道部長或市長針對這個防治缺口 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9311.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9326.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
目前有沒有具體的想法或是做法確實跟委員說明我們也關注到這個兒少自殺的問題所以在這個過去就有這個全國自殺防治中心那特別從今年開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9327.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9351.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
那麼就已經請他們針對這個兒童就是0到17歲的自殺死亡的兒童對指標性的個案先來試試看做這個死因的回溯分析啦這個已經現在先來嘗試指標性的個案那麼但是在執行的過程當中當然也有它的困難困難的在於說這個自殺遺囑的哀痛 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9353.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9368.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
這跟其他的可能比較不同因為這些兒照的自殺經常會造成他的這個遺族的這種guilty就是自責什麼所以在做這個死因回溯的時候呢那麼也有它的難度 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9369.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9389.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
現在在做一些先驅的討論就如同這個委員提到的過去我們比較著重在整體性的分析那現在對這個兒少的部分會在更深入的去做分析那麼除了這個自殺工具方式之外他更前端的 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9390.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9411.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
這個背景因素可能還要進一步的去深入所以這個我們已經開始在這個新建師有在做這樣的進行非常好因為我們也理解這個假設是國小生到高年級國中生甚至高中生他們在學校可能面臨校園的霸凌 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9411.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9433.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
那如果有機會可能也會面臨到非校園的網路霸凌那哪一些可能又是家庭的因素造成的這個部長剛剛有說明所以我們期待就是透過這些的努力去知道當他這個過程裡面他在下墜之前到底這個過程是誰做的努力誰資源上有匱乏 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9433.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9454.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
那我們如何能夠去改善它這個才是我們期待看到個案分析裡面去呈現的那當然部長會體恤家長當這個兒童出了問題的時候他們是非常非常的辛苦的可是我們也了解唯有把這個辛苦化為一個動力才能夠真正解決問題否則的話我們真的看不到 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9455.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9469.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
如何能夠優化這個房子這個是非常非常希望部長跟司長這邊能夠持續的努力好 謝謝那再過來我也請教一下我們大夫署長就是教育部教育署 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9473.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9491.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
剛剛鄂文夫有提到有很多跨部會的合作可是我們看到就是十年翻倍的青春煉獄有媒體做一個相關的報導就是過去這十年來自殺成這個青少年第二大死因兩個人裡面有一個就被漏接 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9492.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9510.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
很大很大的問題大家都持續在討論當中他有整理的四大的缺口包括第一個就是心理健康教育與檢測未能及早的介入第二部分是牽扯到醫療就是兒少精神人力資源的不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9511.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9537.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
還有跨部會合作責任歸屬比較模糊剛剛部長也反覆的討論過第四個就是缺乏死亡回顧檢討機制不足剛剛已經有跟部長跟市長討論過有關於第一個部分心理健康教育與檢測未能及早介入這個部分看起來應該是跟教育部是有密切相關就是說如果依照目前為止 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9539.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9547.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
五小的高年級或者是初中或者是高中生他們有沒有機會去做心理健康教育的同時也能夠及早做檢測 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9549.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9573.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
這部分不知道未來教育部如何能夠跟我們的這個衛福部兩個部會演繹將檢視健康量表就是VSRS5五道簡單的問題這是一般成年人在用的這樣的量表能夠同時讓做一些調整讓它變成是一個年齡層可理解的題目那入為學童健檢裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9574.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
9594.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
可以執行的內容的部分不知道副書長這方面有沒有相關的規劃或者是如何執行好謝謝委員關心我們兒少心理健康的問題那目前已在校園裡面大概就是入了小學之後他整個都會在我們的那個輔導學校輔導辦法裡頭的那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
9599.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
9624.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
就是保護的機制裡面 那我們會提供發展性的輔導 介入性的輔導跟處意性的輔導 依學生的個案的那個需求 其實我們的輔導老師也會有一些教育端使用的一些心理測驗的工具 包括一些比如說優遇量表 或者是他有沒有一些心理 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
9625.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
9629.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
健康比較特殊需求的那個量表其實在輔導老師這邊也會也會運用那我們這幾年其實也一直有跟衛福部新建師師長這邊我們也一直在討論就是如何把就是一些像新快活的這個網路諮詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
9646.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
9662.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
跟社區的資訊的那個輔導資訊的那個資源可以往下延伸到就是比如說我們國中甚至國小的那個學生那這個部分我想我們還會再做跨部會的合作 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
9663.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
9670.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
其實學院輔導法修法之後教育部其實也非常積極的在佈建我們的輔導資源比如說114年以後我們對輔導老師的增加就會有2500多人 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
9678.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
9701.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
那新府人力也會多到200多名這些輔導資源我們在學生輔導法之下也會就是繼續的佈建提供我們兒少孩子心理健康的一個保護層是謝謝副市長說明所以重點是輔導嘛可是我今天再請教您的是前面的 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
9702.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
9727.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
及時的去掌握到誰是高風險區因為你我有掌握到高風險區以後你才有進入到後面輔導的需求那這個人力的運用才會更符合實際所以我們希望的就是衛福部跟教育部能夠研議將這個檢視健康量表當作一個在學童健檢裡面就能夠有機會全面的去掌握到哪一些的 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
9728.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
9738.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
族群或者是哪一些兒童們是需要特別再加強處理的而這一部分我們希望一個月能夠得到相關進度的報告我們會跟委員會還有辦公室來做參考那再過來簡單的請教一下部長那副市長請回座 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
9749.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
9765.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
就是兒少的這個醫療保護工具普及化跟普及那這個非常感謝王毓民委員在去年底臺大兒童醫院的兒少保護中心去做考察這個在考察裡面我們發現有蠻好的一些工具可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
9766.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
9781.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
讓所有的醫療機構如果針對兒少保護都能夠有更好的推廣的話可以多幫助到這些兒少如果受到影響的話可以進一步來做處理的部分這個就是一個量子 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
9782.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
9797.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
通常我們在觀察兒童如果身體有點瘀傷或什麼我們不會非常非常的去掌握到他可能有沒有家暴的機會另外就是有可能是不是有其他的問題包括還有其他的這些工具 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
9798.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
9814.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
就是如何能夠讓兒少的保護可以更周延所以在當天做完這個考察報告以後呢我們希望這個提示卡或者是相關的工具可以應用到更廣泛的保護的機制裡面所以一共有四點包括廣發 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
9816.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
9840.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
這個發送兒童保護提示卡協助醫師來做兒內辨識第二點就是強化基層醫師兒內通報的相關措施第三是研議強化幼兒專責醫師制度由零到三歲扣到零到六歲來增加服務次數最後就是建立跨部門的這個資訊串接連接那不知道我們上一次這個決議三個月到了目前的進度有沒有掌握到 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
9844.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
9857.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
第一個就是跟委員說明剛剛那一些工具我覺得都很好那我們過去都有這個叫做兒少的醫事人員的手冊我覺得那個手冊上我們可以來思考要不要把 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
9858.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
9886.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
這些工具也納入這個醫事人員的工作手冊裡面好來來提供因為過去那個手冊主要是在提醒哪一些是sign你要注意注意哪些然後通報啊什麼的那可以把這個工具把它融入那至於說呃這個這個剛剛的這個呃擴大到後邊幼兒專責醫師的部分哦可不可以後面書面資料哦好好好那就麻煩哦好那我們再把這個書面資料再提供給這個委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
9887.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
9895.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
二少專者機構更是麻煩部長把他組織再造做得更好會謝謝主席 謝謝接下來請陳金輝委員發言謝謝主席有請石部長有請石部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
9919.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
9932.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
陳委員好 謝謝部長因為最近這個中東的情勢但是連帶也是影響到我們的醫藥啊醫材啊等等所以許多機構蠻緊張的在這邊跟您做一些槌尋這個是國際能源組織執行長他說的他說這次的中東危機是非常嚴重這個嚴峻的程度甚至超過1970年 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
9943.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
9964.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
當時有兩次石油危機的總和因為那個時候開採量跟效率沒有現在這麼多現在的使用量也非常大那台灣的這個3M的分公司已經對外表示說他未來要調整品項的價格其中包括原料的原因啊或者是物流運費等等都不斷的在上漲 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
9965.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
9993.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
那我也實際詢問了好多第一線醫院遇到的狀況或者是長照機構很多啦影響目前最大的是手套已經確定手套會上漲那也有人說回饋說他們有簽署合約嘛但是合約快要到的會焦慮嘛因為在合約內的自然是可能沒有什麼問題那我現在想要詢問部長的是您目前所了解掌握到衝擊比較大的有哪一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
9994.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10011.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
好 跟委員說明我們大概盤點了一下就兩大類啦一類呢就是屬於這個藥品的包材那另外一個呢就是純粹就是醫材的本身它就是有含這個塑化類的這個是最高塑膠類的是最高那麼以這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10012.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10028.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
包材來講就藥品的包材的話就是那些點滴的軟帶還有那個透吸筒這個大概是第一個馬上遇到衝擊的那是屬於藥品的部分那另外有一些是管路那個Tube的部分大概我們盤點主要 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10029.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10046.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
就是那些Tubing的那些那大概就這兩大類是最多的當然它的這個我們現在都把它盤點完了之後呢都發現說這些都有國內的廠商可以做所以生產線的部分沒有問題最重要的就是那個原料原料的供應不要 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10048.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10061.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
所以這也是我第二個想問你的六個月前必須要通報假使有可能會缺貨那目前當然國內有廠商他可以自己做可是原料也是個大問題運費也是一個大問題那有誰已經開始通報你了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10063.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10092.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
有有有那個叫做透析液桶的業者已經有在通報所以我們也介入了所以就先跟經濟部合作商情這個業者那麼最重要的這個要找到原料那個叫做塑膠微粒它的供應能夠優先給醫材那這個平台也確認那他們會優先供應那確保這個原料但是價格的部分當然就是會上揚 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10093.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10115.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
所以接著我們就是要請他們提出成本的分析包括在國內製造的也會跟還是不得不上漲那台大醫院他們也是最近快速反應因為新冠疫情的關係他們有覺悟所以他們現在有完整的設計比如說怎麼尋求替代品跟廠商簽合約要設計好 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10117.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10139.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
穩定院內的醫材供應還有控管成本等等他們自救那當然衛福部是晚了他們一天不過我們還是一起來看一下還有什麼地方我們可以再更精進那這次主要就是您剛講到的大量低毛利還有依賴進口跟物流的耗材會首先受到衝擊 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10141.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10158.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
那現在我們也從新聞上得知第一這個戰爭不知道什麼時候會結束還有第二這兩年呢大大小小戰爭不斷但都非預期的並且都在中東地區所以當最後如果說因為成本或者是原料的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10160.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10187.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
缺貨的時候就有可能會替代限量甚至是延後現在講這些當然有點早但是我覺得我們應該要一起來做好準備這邊我列了四個建議不過第一跟第二我有看您有及時的反應第一是建立一個高風險的醫材清單這個您已經做了那第二呢我們要建立緊急的採購跟跨院的調度那這個行政跟立法有共同通過相關的立法 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10187.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10206.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
第三是我比較緊張的是因為去年我們看一下下一頁身體鹹水的事件當時你們就說拜託大家不要囤貨可是你們很認真的宣傳心態上一定各院所會恐慌所以就導致有一些醫材它是集中在某一些機構 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10208.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10222.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
這個還是發生了所以第三個建議是是不是優先來輔導這些急重症或是偏鄉地區的醫院因為他們對於他們對於這個醫材一旦進入了要囤貨他們是比較沒有辦法達到的這個是不是要把它納入你的整備計畫您覺得呢好我覺得這個很好這個這些都是我們要做的 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10231.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10254.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
那最後一點就是品項管理要走向供應韌性的管理因為我們現在只能叫他回報我們趕快告訴我們然後問他說你哪些有缺但是這些品項是不是過度集中在單一來源國這個消息應該是您可以掌握然後有沒有國產的替代能力這個是也可以主動來告訴他們的這個你同意嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10255.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10274.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
有有因為我們剛剛我提到我們盤點出來之後還會根據他的那個藥證然後他的那個市場戰略我們都有掌握所以才會知道說這些幾乎全部都有國內的業者可以生產所以所以這個部分是好那上述這兩個建議再請您一個月可以提供書面報告給我謝謝那 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10279.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10305.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
再來也要講一個網路上很多人關有一個這個就是您說我去看了你的整備計畫所以您說你這個醫療器材的預警機制最終要導入AI那你是排在118年但我現在剛有提到說現在戰爭的風險很難預估所以想問您說這個你有沒有考慮要把它提前 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10307.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10317.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
這個我又要再抱怨一下因為這個是納入在我們的這個藥品韌性整備計畫就是115年這個預算還是沒有省所以我現在這個是在這個平台這個AI的機制是納入這個計畫藥品韌性計畫裡頭部長因為你已經告訴我預算兩次質詢你都要講了 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10327.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10343.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
所以我今天有特別準備我也想準備我的回覆給您那我們首先就政策面討論政策面您到底會不會覺得AI市井系統要提前我們先討論政策面的問題這個應該要做我們本來就已經有規劃了已經有規劃其實預算沒有辦法執行沒有辦法推 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10348.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10376.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
我們來講預算如果你很想討論的話我們這邊來看你剛剛講到的醫療器材短缺通報還有通報機制113年5月就開始建制了114年1月就正式啟用了藥物韌性整備計畫其實從115年開始我去問了好多人我說你們這個通報機制到底OK不OK大家都還是可以正常運作上網看也是正常使用的這個您同意嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10377.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10397.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
這個通報機制是有的 沒有錯對 它113 114都建立好 對對對對是嗎 對那再來我給你兩個日期我是希望你可以不要再什麼事都推給在野黨了兩個日期很重要沒有沒有 我剛剛還是要講喔沒有 兩個日期很重要我們現在要建立的是從我先跟你說 問你準備計畫到底有沒有在準備計畫有沒有在718億新興計畫裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10403.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10410.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
有啊有啊對啊有嘛好1月30號上一個會期的時候齁那個時候朝野協商我們在野黨是非常想新興計畫就先通過的協商破局欸他們到後面去討論的時候說不行所以堅持不可以讓新興計畫通過是執政黨委員你要跟執政黨委員講不是跟我講所以等到一個月的弄期 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10427.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10451.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
拖到現在新的會期喔3月才可以處理喔我再跟你報告第二個訊息我跟你報告第二個訊息喔這個計畫如果預算沒有審的話我們不知道後面萬一審的時候跟我們執行有熱差怎麼辦主計長已經說行人給你們可以先行動之這個動之跟內容是不一樣因為這個內容沒有審查過有它的不確定性我們不知道該怎麼執行啊那我跟你說啊那我現在跟你說假使有這麼重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10455.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
10469.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
這個會期開始3月6號在野黨委員做的事情是什麼在野黨委員做的事情是第一個就是先通過新興計畫那你知道那天發生什麼事嗎執政黨委員出行二十幾個去看棒球欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
10470.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
10475.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
不是我提的是預算審查你是不是應該要跟執政黨委員講所以這些論述執政黨委員應該要把他拿來國會殿堂好好的論述嘛他去看棒球欸那天只有來二十幾個人欸你可以論述我看你那麼努力我也覺得你很可憐欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
10494.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
10503.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
我們就講到這邊好不好我們確實是很努力啦這個計畫都有人沒有那麼努力嘛寫得非常的詳細在裡面要來跟大家討論啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
10504.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
10515.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
我知道啊有人沒有那麼在意嘛我覺得你一定要去跟那些沒有來開院會的人好好的說嘛而不是跟我們這種新興計畫馬上當你們通過的人說你覺得合理嗎我在意新興計畫程度是跟你一樣耶兩次投票都有到耶 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
10526.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
10527.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
這個網路上很多人看了都覺得非常的噁心而且難過那我是想問一下這個懲戒的進度在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
10545.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
10571.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
這個懲戒的進度因為你們好像也是因為新聞把它炒起來他本來是在南部調查後來發現有一位醫師他是在北部做這樣子的事情好然後你們就發了公文是嗎我想問一下你目前懲戒的進度到哪裡了因為這個懲戒權在地方我們再來瞭解一下再跟委員說明所以我也會多久以內可以跟您要到一個報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
10573.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
10591.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
這個禮拜內我們就給應該是說我們去了解地方的進度到哪裡然後就馬上回覆這個禮拜內就可以給你回覆好 那這個問題到底出在哪裡其實也有很多就是關心這個議題的人在討論因為你們知道了然後你們就發公文去索資 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
10592.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
10609.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
結果所知又遇到了這個要問保護司然後要問新北地檢等等等等的所以這個時間上就有一些時間差以至於以前我們才會在上個會期在這邊討論很多他可能已經被調查完成了或者是他可能已經有正確的證據了結果呢我們醫事司都還一直不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
10613.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
10633.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
那當然這是今年監察院對你提出的糾正他當然提出對很多部門都有提出糾正但是其中就包括衛福部監察院是這樣子說他說社政跟衛政的聯繫極度不足你們說已經建構了衛生局通知 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
10634.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
10656.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
社會局通知衛生局的機制但是這邊還有一個bug要跟您討論因為一位醫事人員他有可能在哪些地方來違反這些性品相關這個最後一個問題馬上結束他有可能是在他的職場違反性工法有可能是在學校違反性教法那這樣子衛生局會不會收到通知因為我們不能每次都靠這種發公文傳統會有時間差的通知 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
10660.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
10666.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
我們現在已經建立那個衛社鎮的聯繫管道所以那個已經可是我剛剛有講啊因為還有教育場域還有職場的場域也有可能發生 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
10671.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
10699.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
好那我們再跟教育部跟勞動部來討論一下好了我們之前是衛社陣先連的那現在要跨部會我懂我懂好那這個也可以跟你們要一個報告嗎就由您主導跟勞動部教育部建立這樣子性平三法的資訊借鑒系統可以可以可以好謝謝那就應該要這樣讓這個資訊可以串聯好那就一個月再跟您要報告謝謝OKOK好謝謝沈經輝委員接下來請林淑芬委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
10710.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
10711.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
好 謝謝主席 接下來繼續請我們部長有請施部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
10719.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
10741.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
今天討論兒少全法的修法但兒少全法第13條他明確的要求主管機關必須分析6歲以下的孩童的死因今天很多委員都要求要提高到18歲12歲不過就6歲以下的死因我其實很想跟大家分享就是說其實分析這個死因是要做什麼的 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
10742.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
10761.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
那這個立法的目的是什麼分析了理解了之後我們到底要化成什麼樣的具體的作為然後達到預防的效果所以我覺得這個才是真正最重要的那根據你們公布的網站這個6歲以下的兒童的死因回溯分析結果就以111年到112年兩年的這個回溯個案來看 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
10768.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
10782.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
你知道我看了這個數字我覺得非常的令人訝異兩年裡面竟然有178起中度高度可預防可避免的嬰兒死亡案件 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
10785.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
10808.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
6歲以下 嬰兒兩年死了178起但是這個裡面是中高度可預防的 可避免的那其中有一半 大概84起的比例 就是47%它其實是 它可預防那有一半的原因是 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
10809.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
10812.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
這個屬於這個睡眠環境不安全趴稅撤稅的稅資去促使的 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
10822.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
10840.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
這個難怪會歸類為高度和可以避免和可預防的那這個案例很簡單就是說一個月大的有一個月大的嬰兒那他媽媽在網路上看到人家分享趴睡比較好睡所以就讓個案從養睡改為趴睡然後他 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
10841.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
10846.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
喝完奶以後抱進芬蘭香睡覺趴睡兩個小時以後就無呼吸了那有個七個月大的嬰兒他媽媽也是哄睡後將個案放在大床那旁邊圍著棉被那回房間以後就會發現那個案頭就趴睡那頭整個被棉被蓋住了 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
10860.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
10879.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
然後就搶救就不治這樣子死因也是趴睡病有嗆奶導致了這個窒息意外死亡五個月大的也是他讓這個孩子獨留在房間休息帶他的哥哥去洗澡那發現個案也是捲在棉被裡面 口鼻有奶且全身癱軟 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
10882.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
10898.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
那這種狀況意思說照顧者他可能都是為了好睡啊頭型好看啊睡得比較安穩啊讓嬰兒趴睡啦或是想讓他睡得比較舒服啊比較保暖啊周遭都使用枕頭棉被等用品卻沒有意識到這可能是會導致窒息和猝死這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
10902.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
10909.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
那我們去統計和分析這個原因我想這樣的立法都是希望說我們其實是要採取一些行動和作為然後降低這樣的一個風險的可是我們想說你們都知道這個問題了那你們做了什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
10921.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
10948.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
這些不是零星的個案耶一年兩年死了178個然後84個是因為錯誤的睡眠安排猝死的兩年84個一年平均42個因為錯誤的睡眠安排死亡這難怪你知道台灣曾經的一歲嬰兒的死亡率是千分之四啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
10950.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
10972.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
最後一年的統計是千分之四點二吧台灣的一歲嬰兒的死亡率世界發展國家裡面屬於排名前面的有夠糟的經常被檢討的那這不是零星個案這可辨識的可分類的本來也應該可介入的而也是我們立法要處理的風險的 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
10974.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
10987.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
可是台灣的睡眠促使的預防行動還停留在衛教宣導 商品標示所以你們國健署就在那裡宣導嬰兒睡眠不趴睡 不用枕 不同床 不悶熱 不鬆軟為原則你們就只有衛教宣導 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
10991.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11013.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
而在商品標示裡面就是說經濟部就CNS要求嬰兒的枕頭要標示嬰兒陰陽睡或是針對嬰兒的血糖 搖椅 安撫椅要標示說明此非適合嬰兒睡眠之處看起來你們都是勸導 勸導 就只有勸導市面上仍然許多 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11015.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11033.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
商品違反根本連標示都沒有就算了還在錯誤的引導消費者使用這個讓他們趴睡啦那有傾斜角度的躺椅上睡覺啦所以你在看這些軟性的宣導實質影響力不彰然後還引導這個媽媽有錯誤的觀念商品是這樣子的而政府是沒有任何作為的 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11044.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11068.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
那你來看這個網路上輸入你輸入趴稅安撫枕頭的枕關鍵字你會找到很多商品然後你看平台上商家販售嬰兒趴稅枕名稱就直接違反國建署五招安心睡不趴稅的原則裡面就是引導使用者讓嬰兒趴稅在上面像瘴氣掰掰多功能嬰兒排氣安撫枕 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11074.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11085.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
然後我們還講說CNS要求你要宣你要宣稱這個有窒息的風險結果他在上面寫我這個枕頭還防窒息那寫在哪裡 防窒息 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11090.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11093.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
他還寫防窒息他暗示說家長這個很好為了賣東西結果他就是強烈的在引導家長要趴稅 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11109.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11129.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
他沒有告訴你有窒息的風險還告訴你防窒息這個這個還更舒服更舒適下一頁那部長你覺得這樣的狀況危不危險而受全法第13條要求主管機關必須分析六歲以下的孩童死因那這個狀況裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11131.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11147.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
中度高度可預防可避免的死亡案例裡面一半都是因為趴稅撤稅資睡眠環境不安全可是我們什麼也沒做而是這樣的商品廣告還滿天飛那商品標示法裡面第12條 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11149.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11170.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
知品的標示基準第三點第六款這個2019年他發布了知品標示基準第三點第六款規定解釋令解釋令裡面有講商品要規定市售的嬰兒診因依據知品標示基準第三點第六款規定標示注意事項其內容應該包含 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11172.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11178.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
使用嬰兒診時讓嬰兒採養睡避免趴睡或側睡以免發生窒息危險或類似的用語結果這個這一個解釋令109年7月1號生效但是經濟主管機關他講經營者得 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11192.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11215.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
自願自公告日起試用原來是裝試用的法律啦你得啦 你自己去試用啦不要也可以啦所以我們的國家真的是太太向商人傾斜了在得自願試用下有幾家廠商會去標示然後請問在座各位 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11216.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11231.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
你們會知道在今天質詢以前你們知道使用嬰兒診食讓嬰兒才養睡避免趴睡或側睡然後避免發生窒息國家有這樣的規勸的有幾個沒有沒有都沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11232.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11235.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
那更不要講消費者 更不要當這個想說這些當家長的 完全不可能好 這個你看經濟部的法規 規勸的規勸的啦 你得自願自己選擇適用那第二個呢 血糖的搖椅 這個都是新手媽媽都會去買 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11255.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11282.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
血糖要以安撫嬰兒啦但是上面講不能夠讓嬰兒在上面睡覺是因為醫界已經指出嬰兒在血糖有傾斜角度的這個血面上會壓迫到尚未發展的成熟的氣管增加猝死的風險而且就美國還直接禁止販售所有傾斜角度超過10度的嬰兒睡眠用品 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11283.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11292.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
而我們國家的CNS標準要求要以文字註記不可以在上面睡覺不宜睡眠你看這個商品這個商品沒有提醒這個事情還在那裡引導說讓嬰兒在這個傾斜的搖椅上睡得安穩和舒適商品評論區還可見大量的民眾都讓嬰兒睡在上面媽媽都廣為稱許 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11315.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11319.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
很好用很好用然後商家說很安穩阿美國說超過10度的禁止販售你看然後嬰兒電動搖搖椅非常的非常的OK |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11333.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11348.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
那你來看稅貸來看稅貸還有一個平台販售的一款嬰兒稅貸他的設計令人有遮蔽口鼻窒息的疑慮違反五遭安心稅他還在那邊講 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
11349.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
11371.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
我們本來是說要不能悶熱要通風要將嬰兒的手部露出來這樣的原則結果商品評論區你看這些照片嬰兒稍微動一下很可能就被睡袋蓋住了口鼻而嬰兒這幾個月他完全沒有辦法控制自己的肢體他沒有能力去移開這一些睡袋或是 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
11373.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
11390.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
所以我的意思是說這三個案例只是冰山一角我具體的講這三個搖椅睡袋趴睡枕都只是冰山一角還有很多嬰兒用品都引導家長去替嬰兒做出有窒息風險的睡眠安排 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
11394.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
11400.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
而我們政府做了什麼我們這個宣導說要不要怎樣然後商品規勸道德勸說要標示其他都沒有了沒有你去看美國澳洲他們都透過具體的立法措施禁止販售相關商品欸而不是只有看商品名稱還要看商品的客觀使用情境和實際行銷的方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
11421.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
11437.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
所以凡足以供一歲以下嬰兒在其中其上或其內睡眠或以睡眠哄睡安穩入睡的情境宣導者都要一併的納入規範欸美國的消費者安全委員會CPSCR他們就發現喔2019到2021年間平均每年有174例嬰兒死亡跟嬰兒用品有關 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
11449.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
11476.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
在那幾年裡面有126個嬰幼兒死於不安全的睡眠環境或用品就是添加柔軟的枕頭或是背或是毯在那1920三年期間有38個嬰兒使用嬰兒血糖式睡眠產品造成死亡所以他們就直接在2021年的時候就通過了嬰兒安全睡眠法案 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
11486.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
11500.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
所以使用於睡眠情境的產品都給他很明確的禁令禁售嬰兒床圍 寢鞋角度超過10度的寢鞋的嬰兒睡床所以都非常具體啊那我們要講說 你再看 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
11503.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
11531.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
在立法通過以後他們積極召回了不合格的有傷害疑慮的禁售然後甚至他們召回禁售了還有很多台灣還仍然在販售所以在這種狀況裡面澳洲也一樣跟進2024年他們制定了嬰兒睡眠用品安全標準所以總共訂了14個一般性的規範譬如說他們的水平傾斜度不是10度是不能大於7度 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
11532.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
11559.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
垂直傾斜度也不能超過水平線的7度彎曲面禁止的約束帶纏繞的風險所以在這裡美國跟澳洲都採取了積極的立法措施去禁止嬰幼兒對嬰幼兒睡眠安全有疑慮的商品而我們真的是太落後太落後所以我再講一遍台灣一歲以下的死亡率是千分之4.4這是2022年千分之4.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
11566.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
11587.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
你剛剛講公佈的資料是兩年內死了84個是因為錯誤的睡眠安排死了84個台灣所以在這裡我們是希望說你們除了去公佈死因分析明確有指出說中高度的可預防性的可避免的這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
11589.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
11597.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
但是你講了有什麼用沒有用啊對父母有什麼警惕不知道啊對業者有什麼警示規範強制沒有啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
11601.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
11629.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
還在業者還在大量的誤導父母那個讓他們將小孩這個置放在一個高風險的狀況裡面去讓他使用這一些商品所以這種高風險的商品還四處在販賣所以我們應該及早積極的預防措施所以土法不足以自行啊在這裡修法在這裡立法法有了可是法要做什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
11629.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
11646.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
還需要執法者要有魄力所以在這裡我們是希望說要規定一歲以下的兒童的睡眠用品要符合兒童睡眠安全標準則而且標示跟廣告不得有危害兒童睡眠安全的狀況要嚴管 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
11648.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
11671.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
那我們也會提出修法但是呢我們在這個兒少死亡回溯制度在現在只剩下統計功能沒有預防功能然後已經被空洞化的時候我們是希望啦本來這是一個要減少兒少死因的治理的工具但是呢你常年重複指向同一類可預防的風險而沒有導向產品規範和廣告限制沒有公權力介入沒有去執法 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
11678.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
11684.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
平台下架的機制跟警示標準都沒有那就代表了這只是在一個記錄死亡 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
11685.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
11712.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
在分析死亡而不是預防死亡那如果要跨級跨部會涉及跨部會的事項也應該要主動去整合積極的去推動而你們2024年的報告寫什麼你們2024年的報告結論就以造成兒童死亡因素非常複雜預防政策涉及面向很廣仍需中央相關部會及地方政府共同努力這樣子就帶過這種話誰都會說 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
11715.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
11737.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
但是連中央主管機關正式提出的報告都只是這樣子宣示那我們的政策和法令真的是沒有效啦徒罰不足以自刑保證還是要修法但修法以後要有執行力地方政府 中央政府要高度重視兩年四百十四個孩子是一人死的那就不應該啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
11741.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
11762.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
你覺得呢很謝謝委員給我們這麼寶貴的一刻我們會來跟經濟部討論看怎麼樣去把它落實處死的部分經濟部那個法規也要有強制性那我們的母法也要強制性我們母法裡面一歲以下的這些睡眠用品通通要嚴格納管 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
11765.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
11794.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
執法面要執行啊這種的錯誤還在為了賣他的商品還在繼續錯誤告訴人家這樣子很安全的這是不應該啦好謝謝好謝謝林淑芬委員真的邀請我們的衛福部因為淑芬委員提的這個真的是非常嚴重的一件事情不能坐任目前甚至國外有要求下架台灣都沒有要求下架當然沒有錯剛剛提起來像經濟部可是實際上 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
11795.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
11821.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
如果經濟部沒有衛福部的一些數據的話根本沒有把他掌握所以優先是不是先針對保姆或者托嬰中心事實上你公部門可以管的不要再把協調椅這些東西都還是放在我們的托嬰中心或保姆家都可以使用那家長再來做宣導可是你可以力道先做的是不是先做托嬰中心跟保姆家這個要先做我覺得我呼籲那個署分委員的意見那 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
11824.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
11843.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
接下來王洪威委員王洪威委員王洪威委員不在接著請郭益勤委員發言那大家也跟委員會報告我們今天中午繼續開會待全數委員詢答完畢後再行休息所以現在可把便當放下去一邊用餐謝謝來麻煩郭益勤委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
11852.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
11859.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
好 謝謝主席 有請部長有請史部長郭委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
11860.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
11882.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
好部長其實今天要提到的我們要給孩子一個真正安全的成長的一個環境跟空間喔那我想在現行的一個法制下我發現有一個比較嚴重的安全斷層怎麼說在校園裡面其實我們有性別平等教育法來防守那在補習班的部分呢我們有這個補習及進修教育法那但是呢孩子的人生啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
11882.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
11910.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
不是只有在學校不是只有在補習班那當然我們在這兩個場域當中我們建立了一個嚴格的不適任人員的一個排除的機制但是呢孩子走出了這兩個不同的場域他可能會去劇團而且是私人的劇團在練劇他可能去私人的教練體育教練在訓練他也可能到了所謂的這個應該說工作室 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
11911.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
11926.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
個人的工作室去學藝術 去學畫畫但是這些制度 安全的制度可能就會出現有場域之外的落差了為什麼要這樣講其實具有所謂的這個心情還跟性騷擾不良的一個記錄的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
11927.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
11955.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
我要點出一個問題喔這些人換了場域之後他是不是就可以換了另外一種身份他換了另外一種身份但是問題是我們現行的法制能不能夠有效的追蹤跟管理那這些追蹤跟管理整個所有的這個整體的一個法制在加害人場域轉換的時候是不是已經出現了所謂的嚴重的系統性的一個缺口這個其實就是漏洞就是我們管理當中的一段真空啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
11955.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
11979.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
那這段真空我們要怎麼樣來彌補因為現行的剛剛我提到了學校跟補習班之外其實廣泛接觸不管是文化也好藝術也好體育也好或者是休閒產業也好對於所謂的兒少直接接觸的這些工作者如果他同時又曾經具備有性騷擾性侵害或者是相關的犯罪記錄這個查核的機制在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
11980.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12008.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
這個查核機制有沒有跟著人到不同的場域我也同樣的制度到那邊去防堵這很重要再來這些場域有沒有建立像校園一般的嚴格不適任的人員排除的一個制度那我想我們的這個強制力到底足不足這也是一件非常重要的一件事情雖然我們兒少全法第24條其實針對所謂的文化教育體育等主管的一個機關主要是以鼓勵跟輔導的一個方式來促進這個兒少來 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12010.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12028.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
參與這樣相關的一些活動但是對於我剛剛所提到的制度如果只是為了場域而設計而沒有針對實際接觸兒少的人來建立一個一致性的標準的時候這肯定產生安全上的漏洞因為這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12029.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12046.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
風險的來源從來就不是場地而是人的一個問題那針對這樣子制度上的一個缺口我想我們有沒有能力可以來做補足我們有沒有建立一致性跨域適用的兒少的保護的一個標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12048.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12063.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
剛剛我說了孩子他的人生不是只有學校不是只有補習班他可能除了這兩個場域之後他還有剛剛我提到的這些場域我們怎麼跟著人走而不是只有場域的限制來請回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12063.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12078.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
好 謝謝謝謝委員確實我們現在如同前面在委員資訊裡面也提到我們現在是用CRC這個平台我們有個專區所有因為這個違反這個兒少法那麼被裁罰的這個資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12079.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12095.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
各案我們都把它在上面那當然現在還有剛剛提到的教保法違法的我們現在來串那麼包含其他的性剝削防治條例或者是性侵犯罪防治法違法的其實我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12097.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12125.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
盡量把它彙整在一起跟兒少相關的把它彙整在一起這個是一個來擴大在這個工作者的時候可以查詢他過去的裁罰紀錄這個是一段那麼至於說委員也特別關切到是不是仿照這個澳洲的做法有一個這個所謂的兒少工作證這個我們再來仔細的評估看看因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12126.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12151.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
盡量在減少這個行政作業剛剛提到的是補那個空洞採用這個補空洞的方式來規劃我想其實我修正我剛剛講的這不是空洞我們要補的不只是漏洞而是最基本的安全底線最基本的一個對孩子來講這個安全底線那現在的現行的制度不管是在館場域也好或者是在保護孩子也好我認為啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12152.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12180.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
孩子不能因為他換了另外一個地方去學習學校補習班以外的不管是才藝也好文化的培養也好就是素養的教育也好我們不能因為這樣就要讓他們承擔到不同場域的這些可能發生的風險這是今天我講的這些重點好謝謝好謝謝部長謝謝主席謝謝郭益勤委員接下來洪孟楷委員洪孟楷委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12182.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12187.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
好 不好意思沒看到好 感謝昭偉那我們請石部長有請石部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12200.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12226.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
好部長好這個兒少議題大家都很關注那我想我也先分享一下我們新北市從差不多十年前就開始有所謂的幸福保衛戰他是新北市府結合四大便利超商來去做一個通報系統等於是說希望用通超商裡面的一個先食或是即食食品來讓孩童如果說他真的有需求的時候他可以進去超商裡面先拿一份餐食第一他不會餓可是 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12227.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12242.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
後續不是只是處理說他不惡問題而是他會登記他相關的一些資料那超商就會跟我們社會局跟我們的衛生局來去做一個連線教育局來做連線那適時的就會有我們社工系統或者教育系統來去做輔導跟關心為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12244.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
12269.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
他今天會去拿那一個餐食是因為父母臨時的狀況造成他不得不的偶遇為之還是說他是長期的一個問題來把個案找出來那我想新北市404萬人口有山有海幅員遼闊可以這樣子把它給推行那其實感謝啦很多單位的配合但是最重要第一線超商他其實就等於是我們的一個好夥伴嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
12269.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
12282.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
所以本席現在看到我們有這個增訂相關的一個法令譬如說二七條之一那如果說未來真的能夠修法通過之後是不是有可能這樣的一個經驗或說這樣的一個想法能夠複製到全國讓全國的 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
12285.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
12304.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
超商可能都變成是我們的第一線的一個主動關懷第一不要讓有任何的孩子在受惡他臨時他真的沒有錢或是說他有需要可以去拿一份餐食來吃那第二也可以跟各地的縣市政府來去做一個聯繫部長您的想法勒好 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
12304.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
12328.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
很謝謝委員分享這個很好的經驗這個就類似這個守門人的概念能夠提早發現這個弱勢的兒少或者是嬰兒發現脆弱家庭納入到我們的社安網裡面我覺得這個案例很好我們來跟地方再討論看看是不是可能擴大到其他的縣市我們透過我們的平台來討論那如果說這樣的話我們能夠怎麼樣來有一個進度 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
12331.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
12356.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
比如說新北市我剛剛分享其實是10年前2014年那個時候就開始逐步當然一開始先兩家超商配合後來超商也認同而且這對企業文化形象也有幫助嘛那再者對於超商來講為什麼我一直強調說超商因為他是一個進出都方便而且他隨時24小時幾乎都有人所以說對孩童他要去接觸他也不會覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
12358.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
12380.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
這個尷尬郭莊仁他也不會覺得有這個進入門檻所以某種程度上他確實是可以當一個很好的守門人來 部長好 我想就是如同我剛剛提到的我們先跟這個台北縣新北市政府來討論一下他們有沒有什麼過去十年的經驗然後還有就是說哪裡有困難的地方或說要編列多少預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
12381.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
12407.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
對 會碰到什麼障礙或什麼在我們的社安網平台裡面就邀請他來分享然後我們再把其他的縣市把這個經驗分享出去要看這個因為可能每個縣市也有不同的狀況那我們來看看那我們最期待當然就是全國如果是可以一體試用那這樣子好不好一個月內能夠跟新北市府這邊來去做一個溝通然後來去做研議然後研議一下看看他未來複製的可能性後續的方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
12407.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
12432.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
是不是也在提出 也讓本席了解好 好 好再來是 謝謝 謝謝部長再來部長第二個部分就是我們提到的就是說69條這次修法有針對兒少的隱私跟公共利益的一個部分我想過去幾年我們完全都要保護兒童的隱私這個沒有問題這個大家都同意但是因為有些時候保障或說要遮蔽這個兒童隱私某種程度上 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
12432.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
12456.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
也就變成是說大家只能胡亂猜測說是到底哪一家幼兒園哪一家什麼教育機構出了問題那到最後變成什麼北部某幼兒園連縣市都沒有露出來那也會引發說會不會變成是家長人心惶惶是不是我的小朋友的那一間或是說會不會造成說加害者他反而被孤影其名然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
12457.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
12484.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
他可以持續換一個招牌換一個證照然後他就可以持續營業那所以說在這個比例過程之中我想這也是我們這次修法的一個重點跟方向那我們衛福部未來可以有怎麼樣的一個調整空間確實在69條啊那個非常的寬啊就是為了要保障到這個被害兒少的隱私嘛所以過去確實在媒體報導上而且媒體就會搭海產效應大家都會怕越來越寬 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
12485.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
12507.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
對 就沒有這個一致的標準所以我們後來有發布一個媒體報導兒少及這個性暴力事件的指引如何報導的指引這裡面就有提到哪些情形之下你可以適度的揭露比如說這一個加害的成年人還在這個服務18歲的機構裡面那這個可能要適度 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
12508.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
12531.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
有這個揭示所以我們會來評估在未來修法的時候讓我們本來在指引的位階入法來一個授權主管機關去發布讓這個指引的位階可以提高讓它有一個一致性的本席就提一個比較明確的我現在有印象的就是兩年前在南投有一個這種 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
12533.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
12548.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
性侵和暴力事件那就到最後說連那個加害者也不能講任何的名字結果反而網紅看不下去網紅跳出來去講是說就是誰誰誰某某某然後還說那不然來開罰或什麼等等有引發後續的一個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
12549.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
12568.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
那本席強調這件事情是什麼就是說我們絕對保護被害者而少我們絕對尊重跟保護但是我們也不能因為這樣子反而變成是說加害者他可以逃避不要講說逃避法律制裁因為法律有法律制裁可是另外一點是說變成是所有媒體大家都也 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
12569.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
12591.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
保護加害者讓加害者的名字什麼也沒有辦法秀出來然後反而這樣子是到底我們保或者是被害者還是加害者在這件事情上我覺得這確實比例上以及就是說明確的揭露門檻揭露範圍或是揭露期間讓兒少不被辨識可是又可以對違法的托育單位或是違法的教保人員還是違法的 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
12592.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
12609.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
這個犯 加害者適時的有大家的一個瞭解的一個基礎對 這個就是要平衡啊因為我們也很擔心要避免到間接的讓這個被害人的資訊因而被identify所以才需要有一個好 那部長我們講那麼多 這還是 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
12610.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
12639.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
需要我們提出相關的指引你剛剛有講是說已經有一個指引那未來我們把它入法要強化所以未來我們在69條的這個逐條審查的時候能不能同步也有相關的這些資料可以讓我們委員參考我們在院版裡面會來呈現院版現在出來了嗎還沒還沒我們預計是主席我們是要您預計什麼時候出來下個月我們會來辦這個預告我們的院版的預告所以這樣還要很長一段路呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
12640.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
12666.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
我們本來期待是說能不能在這個會期我們偉大的昭偉如果說他可以趕快來排案我們就可以逐條審查了那逐條審查的時候你可以拿出來不然可不可以簡短回答因為我們還有後面的委員我們來加速 我們加速來辦理好 我至少我這邊開眾免疫認定我做的是全文修正比較大我開眾免疫認定就是說當我們逐條審查的時候我們一定要有相關的資料可以來佐證 好嗎好 謝謝 麻煩部長那接下來請張雅琳委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
12680.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
12704.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
謝謝主席 我們有請部長有請石部長部長我要講一個問題就是我們的兒少過老了就是我想不管是2017年到現在我們的國家審查一直不停的在講說我們的兒少休息時間不夠學時時間太長那在去年其實也有一個在各個平台上面有提到就是說希望調整他們的上課時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
12705.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
12724.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
避免慢性睡眠剝奪導致他們憂鬱、智商的風險提高那這個其實在很快就得到了一萬兩千六百四十一個人的附屬那我想知道就是說我們有沒有從部長的因為部長是這個公共衛生的專家嘛您認為一個合理的休息和休憩時間應該是多少呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
12724.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
12748.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
如果是睡眠時間要8個小時但是我們只有睡眠時間我們沒有兒少休息跟休憩時間為什麼會講這件事情不僅是在結論意見書很多國際專家都已經提出這樣子的一個建議同時我們在今年的應該是去年我們開始有找民間來討論也有一個兒少代表直接說我根本沒有想說我要去玩了我只想要休息 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
12749.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
12774.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
所以我想這件事情呢已經是一個非常非常我們必須要來面對的問題因為過去已經這件事情已經討論了8年了我們基本上還是沒有任何的進度所以我想了解一下說針對休息時間如果我們沒有任何的了解的話我們是不是可以有開始展開我們的本土性研究休息休息時間應該多少怎樣才是符合兒少者身心發展我們有嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
12776.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
12800.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
如果我們有的話我們有檢視現況現實嗎?落差在哪裡?目前本土性的實證研究我們比較沒有相關精確的數字不過在兒上法裡面對於現在除了在課堂之外我了解啦我現在的問題就是我們對於本土的研究上面是完全缺乏的我們也非常清楚的知道兒上法的保障並沒有落實到我們現在學生每天的生活裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
12801.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
12825.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
所以我們是不是可以要嘛我們就來做一個研究要嘛就是我們來看看如何落實因為這真的是太多小朋友跟我說你們爸爸媽媽都有勞基法保障你的工時可是他們是沒有的一直都沒有好不好這部分是不是可以來告訴我們我們來找一些學者來看看是不是做一個本土的實證研究對實證研究然後提出相關的建議好不好這大概什麼時候可以有一個初步的規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
12827.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
12848.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
我們今年來委託啦那初步規劃可不可以給我一個計畫的方向啊因為如果這個研究的話也可能要到年底他才做得完嘛當然沒有錯啦我是說你們一個方向啦我們是可以從方向面先來討論啦避免到時候做完的時候來不及我們再跟委員請教一下然後再來擬定這個委託研究的這個重點 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
12848.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
12877.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
好 那再來就是我不曉得部長知不知道今天早上有一群兒少團體他們在群嫌樓外面去提出兒少權法的修正那我想要知道目前的進度是什麼我們目前大概150條的這個就是院版的150條大概都完成這個條文的修訂的草案那我們預計是在四月的時候會來做預告四月做預告然後再辦這個公聽會來收集大家的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
12878.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
12893.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
好 我想這個進度如果可以再加速的話更好因為這個民間已經等了太久跟太久可是我們兒少面對的困境其實是越來越艱辛包含網路的一個變化就是一個很大的調整但是我有一個東西是希望部長可以先來做的事情就是我關於我們兒少代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
12893.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
12910.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
這件事情我們在地方我們一直在鼓勵大家推可是我們中央部會大家其實都非常的消極然後都會回答我們說那個行政院有啊衛福部有啊就跟你們這邊配合就好了可是我覺得這件事情是沒有辦法真正的落實到我們講的兒少表一權所以是不是可以有一套機制由衛福部這邊來去 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
12912.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
12923.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
一個機制或是制度讓我們其他的部會來了解說其實跟俄少談真的沒有那麼可怕那來增強他們的信心所以這件事情是不是可以請社家署來規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
12926.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
12948.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
就是讓其他部會 其他部會也設是不是對 因為大家不管是在CRC的國家結論性意見審查都有提出這個方向嘛 對不對但是我們中央從2022年到現在我們還是只有行政院跟衛福部啊我們是不是可以設計一個制度或是機制等等的讓其他的部會瞭解 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
12951.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
12969.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
這個我們先來瞭解現況因為過去確實在111年的時候有頒布一個中央機關推動兒少參與國家所以我們來瞭解一下各部會的落實情形好啊 那這個部分的話我就為我們瞭解一下落實情形 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
12970.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
12997.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
還有我覺得不能只有聽部會這邊的意見一定要找兒少代表來了解到底實務上面他們推動跟部會溝通的時候到底遇到了什麼樣子的問題那最後一題我快快的講就是說還是郎教練這件事情兒少工作證因為這個兒少工作證其實我從一開始到現在我都一直不停的在講兒少工作證那不僅是我在講民間也非常非常的期待但是衛福部只有一個回應就是說因為會納入兒少法我們正在修改兒少權法這樣子所以我是在想說 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
12999.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
13017.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
到我們修法完成這個中間還有一個空窗我們到底怎麼樣可以來建立一個制度來保障我們的兒少因為不然新聞成竹不窮我們自己也介紹很多這樣子的案例我們是不是可以有一個什麼樣子的機制幫助我們的家長知道這位教練到底有沒有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13018.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13043.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
或是這位老師到底有沒有問題 這樣請簡短回答我們先從這個CRC專區的擴大我們現在的CRC專區只針對違反兒少法的那我們把它先擴大到相關的這個案例通通把它 就是裁罰的那些名單通通可以先集中在一個區讓它方便查詢 可以先從這個地方先做起 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13044.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
13044.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
主席有請部長有請石部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
13074.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
13101.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
部長辛苦了我們都知道現在我們的兒少法跟之前的兒童福利跟三年福利從53年前開始到現在我相信是已經進步很多不過我們在努力的時候可是還是會看到一些缺失我有看到就是說大概我看到ECD的國家他們針對15歲就是他們對生活的不滿意有哪些呢最重要的好像是最大就是他們對外表不滿意 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
13102.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
13117.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
那其他的在前幾名裡面都是在學校的生活所以我想知道說衛福部在這次還有我們教育部還有我們未來要針對死因的一個回溯這些工作要落在誰的身上 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
13119.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
13148.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
13149.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
13172.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
看了那個資料就是說可能很多人都自己的外表不滿意或是學校生活不滿意我覺得在預防就是說自殺這個部分是不是這個上面的一個英國關係是不是要去做特殊的一個更細緻的研究呢這看起來好像是說這是一個調查的樣子就是對那個15歲的孩子那麼不滿意的地方去做調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
13174.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
13203.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
大概就是學校的大概占了三項就是說跟老師的關係在學校的生活還有在學校的學習那我在想是不是這個以後如果說在研究這方面的智商的部分是不是我認為教育部的那個角色也很重要我的意思是這樣那還有就是說針對我們目前社工的這些我們的人數那麼少那要應付這麼多龐大的工作我們有沒有一個比較精進或者說這一兩年那個改善計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
13203.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
13228.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
有 其實我們社工的人數一直在努力的擴大那麼包含在社安網裡面也一直在增加社工的人數所以我們社工的人數現在大概是專職的部分大概近兩萬人了那麼以103年來比的時候那時候才一萬三千人左右所以已經成長大概四十九萬人 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
13228.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
13246.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
所以說這些所有的調查還有這些死因會落在他們的身上嗎因為怕他們工作loading會越來越大死因調查或者是這些我們的所有的事故啊這些因為我們現在如果是做那個死因回溯的話那個是專家會去調閱一些資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
13248.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
13264.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
那我的意思就是希望因為人數已經沒有那麼多然後後來越來越多的工作給他們的話會造成他們像離職潮很高然後回到今天的主題就是我們今天針對這個兒少寶我們自己本身提了大概七個條可是雖然沒有看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
13265.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
13282.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
院版所以我還是要跟部長討論一下大概我的核心大概放在原住民的地方就是文化權還有這些我們強調專業的文化能力因為這是以前沒有提到的所以我想知道部長的一個想法文化敏感 這個文化安全的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
13290.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
13306.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
確實在我們的這個CRC的精神裡面特別去強調這個避免歧視所以就對於各種不同社經地位這個族群都應該不可以有任何歧視所以我先跟部長報告我放在第五條跟第八條 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
13307.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
13321.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
然後第十條上面有一個就是我們兒少代表這個族群比例因為之前是沒有的所以我想說至少要有一位具有原住民身份代表讓他可以去反映部落的一個經驗跟實際的文化處境 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
13323.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
13340.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
跟我們報告我們現在在這個部裡面的這個室友我們有明定在這個組織已經有原住民身份的第17條就是收養的一個程序就是收養的時候有的時候如果收養人他並不是原住民可是他要收養人 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
13341.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
13367.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
收養了原住民的小孩可是他可能沒有被詢問到說可能他是不是需要一些文化的一個認同或者是說以後要協助這個小朋友的文化的方面的一個學習或者是教育我覺得收養人可能要有具備這方面的一個背景不然他如果小朋友被收養的話他可能會脫離他的母體文化所以我覺得這個收養條件我覺得應該要重視好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
13369.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
13375.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
這個問題主要是在收出養的時候在評估的部分納入文化安全的概念 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
13376.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
13405.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
好 第二十七條就是我們偏遠地區的一個醫療資源跟諮商權因為你說我們目前在都會區都已經可以覺得說像小兒科或者是說做心理諮商已經很少了更何況是偏鄉地區所以如果法制化讓他們有一些資源可以到部落裡面或者是到偏鄉去做固定的一個巡迴的話至少讓當地的小朋友有享受到這方面的一個所謂的權益或者是知道說有這方面政府提供這方面的服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
13410.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
13424.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
還有一個就是第56條就是建立文化敏感度的寄養津貼就是常常我們的小朋友要被收養的時候因為可能原住民的那個房子太小或者說他經濟能力不好就被排除在他可以收養原住民小朋友的這樣的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
13427.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
13450.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
條件的限制所以小朋友就會被跨區區被漢人收養所以他就失去了被自己族人收養的這樣一個條件所以如果說你有一個所謂的滋養津貼讓收養原住民小朋友的原住民這些養父母呢他受到有受到一些補貼的話至少可以減輕他部落的一個生活津貼 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
13453.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
13481.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
好 跟委員說明說因為我們目前寄養是已經有津貼只是說好像委員的意思是說對於這個原住民的部分再另外加對 因為它常常會被排除嘛因為它裡面的條件是說這邊有一些住房太小大小 收入正名它可能就被排除在這個收養的條件裡面所以它就沒有辦法被具有熱性的這些原住民父母親的去收養 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
13483.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
13504.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
研究看看好了我研究看看好了我放在第56條好那第62條就是他的優先順序如果說小朋友要被收養的話應該是有一些所謂的priority然後親屬族人同部落的同族群的進養家庭然後原鄉機構然後在最後才是我們其他的安置資源這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
13505.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
13524.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
有有我們目前也是會優先去選擇具有原住民的那個背景的家庭這個這個已經可以好最後就是今天我有聽到數據權委員他提到口腔衛生師那我想知道目前我們部裡面的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
13527.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
13547.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
口味師我再來瞭解一下目前的進度因為過去之前曾經有提出過然後後來不曉得什麼原因暫時停止推動我再來瞭解一下就目前的畢業生或者是說現在研究所出來的這些口味系的系屬的學生已經超過千名了 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
13548.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
13567.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
可是他們在無論在考試這邊沒有專業的執照以外甚至在去就職的時候他沒有這樣的類別我覺得我們要想辦法給他們解決因為我們現在剛好人力也短缺啦是希望所有在這個相關的這個醫療相關背景的人力都能夠大家一起投入好謝謝部長好謝謝謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
13570.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
13598.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
好謝謝我們的縣議召委鄭天才委員鄭天才委員鄭天才委員鄭天才委員不在接著請鍾嘉斌委員鍾嘉斌委員鍾嘉斌委員鍾嘉斌委員不在接著請羅明財委員羅明財委員羅明財委員羅明財委員不在接著請謝一鋒委員謝一鋒委員謝一鋒委員謝一鋒委員不在接著請何新淳委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
13599.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
13625.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
何新淳委員何新淳委員何新淳委員不在接著請范雲委員范雲委員范雲委員范雲委員不在接著請我們的鄭振淳委員鄭振淳委員鄭振淳委員鄭振淳委員不在接著請林楚英委員林楚英委員林楚英委員林楚英委員不在接著請楊耀委員來麻煩楊耀委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
13628.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
13631.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
請十部長來請十部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
13638.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
13663.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
養委員好 部長好部長我們今天討論兒少福利權益保障法那當然法律的規定沒有一定的人力支撐其實什麼法都是空談所以我先還是先跟你討論一下我們現在國內的社工人力的問題其實台灣長期存在著社工人力不足的問題這個我們在委員會已經講過好幾次 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
13667.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
13689.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
衛福部的統計資料是這樣子就是在2022年底的時候我國的社工專職人數是一萬八千多服務的比例呢就是用社工人數來對比全國人數是1比1420日本的數據啊我現在舉三個地方的數據日本的數據是 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
13694.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
13695.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
1比461美國是1比471 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
13704.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
13725.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
香港的社工人力配置最健全香港是1比267大概都比台灣多出3到5倍我們人力短缺其實也已經我剛才講過光是在這個委員會我就已經提過好幾次 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
13726.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
13748.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
我們現在要保障兒少的權益當然還是必須要有一定的社工人力可以去維持社安網等等的福利政策的確實運作想請問一下部長,部長你就是好好的回答我們長期面對人力不足這個議題在未來 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
13752.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
13781.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
部裡面這邊有沒有什麼持續精進的相關政策有大概從幾方面跟委員說明第一個當然這個社工的人力我們持續在補助地方政府所以希望持續的去增加那麼包含在我們社安網裡面我們目前114年是這個多禁用4000多人未來到119希望增加到9000人這個我們會持續的第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
13782.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
13808.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
當然有缺也要有錢所以第二個就是薪資上也希望能夠調升讓這個人願意進來也能夠留人那第三個當然還有他的工作條件也應該要能夠讓他們覺得在這個工作待遇之外能夠學用合一還有職業的安全還有繼續的教育職業的發展等等這些也都要兼顧所以大概 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
13808.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
13830.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
我們對他的那個進階啊資料也都有原本要談薪資的問題部長倒是講到一個重點就是工作環境跟條件的改善怎麼去做啊其實我覺得加薪的部分就是只要政府不要 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
13831.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
13849.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
不要亂普罰現金其實錢的部分比較好處理工作環境跟條件部長這邊有沒有什麼想法改善的部分大概有幾個就是說第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
13851.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
13877.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
在我們的職業的安全上去強化一個是職業安全第二個就是說導入一些AI或數位的工具去降低他們的paper work工作輔助對 他們每次做一件事情就要寫好多資料如果能夠透過資訊串流的方式降低他repeat做這些事情那當然還有就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
13879.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
13892.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
進階啦讓他能夠有這個進階社工的進階的這個制度出來那部長剛才講了三個方面我覺得在沒關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
13894.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
13917.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
我覺得在工作輔助的部分是不是這個就是有設備就可以做這個是不是可以先做因為職場安全的部分這個涉及的面向比較廣可能比較困難資訊的部分能不能我們在社安網2.0裡面有把它納進來有那什麼時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
13923.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
13951.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
什麼時候?今年就開始做了今年啊?對因為改善工作環境跟條件才能夠因為是這樣子嘛就是人力不足假如說他的有一部分是薪資的問題有一部分是工作環境跟條件的問題工作環境跟條件搞不好影響面大於薪資 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
13952.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
13978.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
那我現在還是講一下薪資就是我之前有提過也感謝部裡面這邊就是我們現在社工的部分就是只要通過考核每年月薪會加一千那是七年就到頂那也不可能我說真的也不可能說繼續每一年都加一千可是到頂了以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
13979.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
13980.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
我們要怎麼去讓社工可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
13987.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
14012.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
留得住這個問題要及早去思考啦因為譬如說23歲大學畢業他就投入社工的行列那30歲一到他的薪資就到頂這個也蠻麻煩的啦好不好就是說我先講我的看法就是說要每一年都一直加一千 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
14013.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
14036.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
可能也不大可能啦不過要怎麼因應七年到頂以後的誘因這個部長可能要我們來思考看看有時候到頂之後呢轉成像績效的獎金還是什麼來設計把那個年資也納入他的績效獎金也感謝衛福部其實算是很有 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
14039.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
14062.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
很有誠意啦因為我看的資料好像社工也跟著公務人員的調薪在調不過這裡有一個問題就是我看這幾年的公職報考人數是逐年降低表示公務員的薪資跟薪資的調整方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
14065.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
14091.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
的誘因不高了啦假如只是單純的我們想說七年到了就直接停跟著公務員這樣子調可能社工還是會留不住啦這個跟部長提醒一下部長我這邊因為時間的關係所以可能這是一個很嚴重的問題就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
14094.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
14119.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
等我這裡的數據是比較老一點就是2017年衛福部有委託台大進行了台灣第一個全國性兒少精神疾病的調查那調查的結果台灣的兒少裡面大概有12%的人患有焦慮症那有1% |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
14120.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
14136.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
有憂鬱症有將近三分之一的兒童有精神方面的疾病必須要進一步的專業評估跟協助就是情緒障礙等等那我今天就直接把把問題讓讓部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
14139.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
14153.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
待會去做個思考啦不過這個我是一定會問因為為什麼呢因為現在可能少子化然後跟小孩子從小就接受3C跟人的互動 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
14155.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
14173.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
欠缺所以有很多小孩子都有社恐的問題社交恐懼跟社交障礙的問題這個問題我們不想辦法來做個因應確實不行啦我還是不佔用大家的時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
14174.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
14194.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
我們要去注意青少年的心理健康特別是人際關係的部分這個可想而知因為少子化所以在家裡本來就沒有互動像我澎湖有很多迷你國小一個年紀就一個學生這個很悲慘 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
14196.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
14218.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
這個是比學習不足更嚴重的一件事情就是群性的培養從小就嚴重欠缺等等的問題我們再找個時間好好的探討好不好好 謝謝主席好 謝謝楊耀委員接下來請黃秀帆委員發言對 很好 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
14226.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
14231.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
謝謝主席 我們請部長有請石部長水要不要帶上來 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
14239.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
14254.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
副長 剛剛楊耀偉委員最後講的這個議題就是說青少年或者是在國小國中的這個階段確實有這樣的一個問題因為我們在基層看到有很多 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
14257.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
14271.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
以前可能一個家庭裡面至少有兩個小孩三個小孩甚至更多在我們那個年代可能五六個都有現在可能一個家庭裡面就一個小孩 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
14272.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
14290.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
可能爸爸媽媽又忙那就把這個手機就直接丟給孩子們看或者是就是電視就直接面對電視所以可能會有這樣子的一個狀況產生所以我也希望就是說衛福部針對這部分真的要確實再去 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
14291.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
14305.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
去討論一下就是說孩子們的這個心理健康狀況有時候在國小階段有時候你跟他或者是國中階段你跟他打招呼他不一定會理你他可能就是專注在他的 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
14306.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
14322.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
這個手機在他的3C產品所以我希望就是說針對這一部分也許衛福部可以再跟教育部這邊再溝通一下怎麼樣讓孩子跟人的這個溝通或者是在這個學校在學校裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
14323.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
14349.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
是不是可以怎樣不要長期在學校裡面就3C產品是不是就直接先收起來可以專注於跟同學的溝通或者是接觸我覺得這樣可能對孩子的成長過程可能會更健康這個是我自己認為我不知道說正不正確是不是請衛福部針對這部分可能也許去討論一下探討一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
14351.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
14367.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
也許是因為現在目前的整個社會狀況然後導致孩子們跟人的溝通可能剛剛楊委員講的可能有那種色恐症我不知道會不會到這麼嚴重那總是會覺得現在的孩子跟以前的孩子是不太一樣這確實有這樣的一個狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
14369.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
14385.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
好謝謝謝謝委員的提醒那接下來部長我想請教就是說我們在去年的時候就有提到就是我們要成立一個兒家屬那這個衛福部的組織法目前還在就是還在立法院這邊等待這個協商 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
14386.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
14408.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
那我想請教就是說原本兒家屬是希望能夠今年能夠順利掛牌上路那目前還在立法院這邊等待這個協商那我想請教就是說部長針對這部分你們這個兒家屬的是不是能夠在今年順利掛牌這個目標是不變是這樣子嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
14410.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
14424.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
對跟委員說明雖然這個組織法現在還在立法院審查可是我們內部的這個主改的進度還是在盤點中還是在進行中並沒有停下來所以我們的目標不變 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
14425.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
14432.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
所以是預計在今年掛牌希望我們也希望立法院這邊能夠協商當然我們希望說朝野能夠趕快針對這個兒家屬的部分這個組織法趕快協商讓這個兒家屬能夠順利掛牌 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
14442.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
14456.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
跟委員說明我們也有在這個會期當中去拜訪了相關的委員那希望您去這個差異的部分讓他有一個共識所以目前有共識嗎有有都拜訪差不多了 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
14457.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
14482.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
好那我們就期待因為四月份就兒童節快到了那原本我們也希望就是說這個兒家屬是不是這個我們最大的一個兒童節禮物那我不知道是不是來得及我看是可能應該也是來不及那當然就是說我們希望能夠在今年能夠順利掛牌這個是我們期待的好那接下來部長我想請教就是說我們這個凱凱案 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
14485.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
14496.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
之前大家都非常的關心嘛那針對這個當時針對家內或家外的這個兒女案件的這個責任分工就是不是那麼的明確那未來就是說這個兩年過去了那未來我們有這樣的一個兒家屬 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
14503.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
14516.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
未来避免这样的一个状况产生我不知道说在儿家属成立之后我们是不是有把权责能够分得更清楚家内或家外的权责分得更清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].start |
14516.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].end |
14541.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].text |
才不會造成有類似台台的這樣的一個案件延誤這個推為責任到最後是沒有人負責的這種狀況產生所以部長我想請教一下未來針對這一種家內或家外的這種案件的責任分工那是不是可以在我們未來的兒家屬裡面能夠釐清得更清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].start |
14547.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].end |
14564.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].text |
你先休息一下我知道那個咳嗽是很難過的上次也是這樣公委員報告在開開安的事件之後我們把整個收出養跟要被出養的兒童如果要被安置的話我們把這兩塊做了比較明顯的區隔 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].start |
14564.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].end |
14593.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].text |
所以未來如果這個要出養的兒童在等待出養期間要被安置他是要經由這個縣市政府來主導去做安置的動作所以這個小朋友被安置的時候那縣市政府就可以更明確更直接的對於安置的地點跟安置過程中的安全可以能夠有更明確的監督的部分那這塊在這次事件發生之後我們在整個制度已經做了一個相關的調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].start |
14595.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].end |
14605.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].text |
我們也期待未來兒家屬成立之後對於整個溝通對地方政府的溝通或對其他部會的溝通能夠更順暢接下來部長我再請教我們現在司法少年的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].start |
14614.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].end |
14631.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].text |
那通常這個法院裁定就是少年接受安置輔導處分那本來應該是在機構裡面接受這個陪伴或者是重建那其實在現實上面其實我們現在這樣的一個機構其實越來越少 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].start |
14635.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].end |
14663.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].text |
願意承接的這樣的一個安置機構其實是越來越少那我想請教就是說針對這一部分司法院認為這個應該是屬於衛福部主管那衛福部又認為說這個主責應該是在法院或者是保護官那地方政府又同時這個身兼委託者或管理者那我想請教就是說未來類似這樣的一個司法少年那部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].start |
14664.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].end |
14683.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].text |
在你們的這個業務裡面就是我們其實會碰到可能幾個單位互相覺得這個不是我的責任就互相推諉那未來的話我們針對這部分就是說你們跟司法院或跟地方政府的這個責任的這個釐清是不是更清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].start |
14684.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].end |
14699.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].text |
跟委員說明我們之前在那個林正偉林秘辛正偉的這個協調之下我們也有跟法務部大家溝通司法院這些都有溝通未來就是對於這些司法少年的安置的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].start |
14701.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].end |
14718.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].text |
因為過去當然是比較少是專責都是混合型的那但是當然這個收養的這個安置的單位當然會反映到有時候對他的那個這個整個 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].start |
14722.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].end |
14742.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].text |
機構內的這個照顧的部分會比較辛苦啦所以人力上會比較辛苦就是說其實他的照顧成本也高那人力不足啦所以我不知道說你們未來怎麼跟就是說跟司法院或跟地方政府應該這個溝通上面 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].start |
14746.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].end |
14767.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].text |
責任能夠更清楚明確可以找出一個解決的方式要不然我覺得說一旦有類似這樣的一個狀況可能各個單位就互相覺得說這個不是我的責任我希望說部長針對這部分我們能夠更清楚的去釐清未來類似這樣的狀況是誰要來主責 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].start |
14771.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].end |
14787.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].text |
我們會主動來找這個剛剛講的司法院法務部來討論看怎麼把這個部分再做得更好一點好那接下來我想請教部長就是說我們也希望就是說類似就是有全國兒少的這個問題兒少的這個個案這個追蹤的這個系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].start |
14793.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].end |
14810.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].text |
那其實以前可能整個資訊不是那個可能我們衛福部跟地方政府的資訊不是那麼的流通我講的可能就是資訊可能沒有那麼互相的資源那未來這個兒家署成立之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].start |
14811.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].end |
14824.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].text |
那我想請教就是說針對這個兒少的個案追蹤系統那是不是會更明確那中央跟地方的這個責任跟我們的系統是不是可以互通好互通 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].start |
14826.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].end |
14853 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].text |
跟委員說明我們現在兒少保護的系統就是一個系統那不會因為他居住的戶籍不同然後會有其他的這樣的一個就是你要追蹤然後可能到他已經搬到其他的縣市那你就追蹤不到的這種狀況會不會有這樣的狀況系統上是在同一個系統只是查詢的部分他可以去查他跨縣市的 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].start |
14853.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].end |
14873.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].text |
跨縣市那如果他到其他的縣市誰要去通知其他縣市全責的就是他如果有移動的時候那應該是前一個要通知下一個就是前一個縣市的主管就是要去通知下一個縣市的怎樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].start |
14882.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].end |
14901.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].text |
像這類個案如果在跨縣市有移動的時候那一般大概行政面上當然現在在這個列管的縣市都會跟下一個縣市來做交接資訊系統的部分也會透過權限的設定然後讓下一個縣市直接能夠可以接得到 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].start |
14902.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].end |
14911.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].text |
這個部分目前在行政上面的現在有什麼問題嗎一般來說我們以往所聽到大致上運作大概都還可以處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].start |
14912.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].end |
14937.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].text |
都還可以處理那我們也希望就是說不會因為他遷移那個戶籍不在原本的戶籍單位然後他是跑到其他的縣市那因為這樣子我們的追蹤系統就沒辦法就這個找不到這個人或者是沒辦法去繼續追蹤下去就是說整個追蹤系統我們覺得還是由中央這邊可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].start |
14939.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].end |
14966.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].text |
偶爾也要去關心一下這個追蹤系統它是不是真的有實際在運作那其實有時候是碰到問題或者是這個發生事情之後你才會覺得說原來這個可能某個縣市上一個縣市沒有通知下一個這個縣市所以我希望就是說中央有時候也是要當然是人力也會有一個問題可是我覺得說中央應該也要負起這樣的一個責任就是說隨時 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].start |
14967.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].end |
14979.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].text |
可能也要去關注這樣的一個追蹤系統是不是真的很正常的在運作這樣子好不好好謝謝謝謝委員好 謝謝黃秀邦委員接下來請劉建國委員發言等你啊 要起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].start |
14993.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].end |
14999.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].text |
謝謝主席,有請部長,還有署長,社交署署長部長好,跟署長看一下,這是2024年的五月新聞 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].start |
15007.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].end |
15029.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].text |
而少法統一的公告中央網站避免跨縣市超不到這個是衛部在4月底跟各縣市討論後決定要求法定的公告姓名名稱案件一律在中央的聯合國兒童權利公約網站上公告且統一格式避免不一致的問題那各縣市都還想公告中央不會反對沒有錯吧對好沒有錯好那所以現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].start |
15030.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].end |
15044.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].text |
民眾都可以在聯合國的兒童權利公約網站上查詢到柯先生公告違反兒少人員的名字但是部長我們實際點閱進去之後會發現一個問題柯先生公告的公文沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].start |
15045.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].end |
15061.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].text |
然後沒有縣市發出的公文就把人公告到這個系統上去這個有沒有風險的存在會不會有霧燈到時候出問題是要地方政府來負責還是我們會不會負責原來的財主書沒有了 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].start |
15062.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].end |
15077.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].text |
這不僅如此,在衛福部的系統上除了公佈姓名還有違反法規外,對事實僅用這種災藥的方式去呈現所以我這邊要提醒部長,也要請部長看這個災藥,你看這兩個案子下一頁看這兩個案子它是發生什麼事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].start |
15079.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].end |
15104.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].text |
一個是桃園市,一個是宜蘭,就這張啦,宜蘭縣然後就40災藥,受處婦人於公開場合,對兒少不當對待然後,一樣,兩個都寫一樣啦一個是公開場合,一個沒有加公開場合但是像台北市喔,它40災藥是怎麼寫委員第幾條?19,第1項,第15款但是,它的委員條文是寫這樣,但是它的40災藥 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].start |
15108.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].end |
15117.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].text |
又只有寫違反施舉的第一項第十五款規定不依啦然後他可以點進去可以看到公文前面那兩個看不到公文寫這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].start |
15120.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].end |
15149.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].text |
這一個可以看到公文,但事實在要就是比較上一個那個表格叫文婉條文的內容的畫條這個怎麼會會怎麼這樣的一個不一致啦這是真的,我覺得這有問題嘛然後有上傳的公文,我們現在幫你查到是這樣有新北、台北、台中、高雄、屏東、台東、金門剩下的通通沒有上傳或是林一新各案上傳有的時候他想傳,有時候他不想傳 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].start |
15153.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].end |
15182.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].text |
所以我想我們當初立法的目的就是要接受這些去傷害未成年的對象在這個系統的營運的模式讓各縣市的來把這樣的資訊傳到這個公約的網站上但是好像操作空間太大了然後不一致也非常的離譜然後甚至還有可以選擇不上傳公文然後在中央的系統裡面把其他人做的事情就寫得非常隱晦模糊 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].start |
15184.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].end |
15202.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].text |
這不對吧所以我們應該立即來檢討像這樣的一個違反兒少法的一個公佈的一個系統最少要求說柯先生你一定要強制他們要上傳這個公文嘛這最少嘛然後事實在要我是建議是不是要模組化 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].start |
15203.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].end |
15220.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].text |
不是不是有那個人員齁他自己寫什麼想寫什麼寫什麼應該是你模組化之後人員勾選而非偏選然後他會避免他虧待到這種事實勾選式的啦對啦對啦對啦下拉選單這樣齁對啦好好嗎好啊這一個禮拜再一次行嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].start |
15222.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].end |
15239.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].text |
因為現在應該是過去可能是擔心到他的處分書上會有兒少資料啦所以沒有呈現公文啦如果沒有的話就沒有問題處分書上面應該都有公文我們讓他可以看得到就好這個我們來改 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].start |
15244.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].end |
15270.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].text |
處分書原本應該就是可以公開嘛對啊對啊應該不會有得擔心的事情我們就把處分書給他掛上來就可以了這件事情我在提醒部長會處理這件事情就是在系統上這個連江線是零離島人員當然是比較少但是你看澎湖從2024四月起也登陸五件金門2019到現在也有五月起也全部案件都有全部上網 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].start |
15271.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].end |
15297.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].text |
年薑到現在沒半個當然沒有最好嘛會不會我們確認一下是真的沒有還是沒有登上來就請部長說完就再深入去了解一下啦好第二件事情我再請教部長啦就是也是有關兒童的這個兒少權力的問題為運動部2024調查我們福林關的竟然是全台第一胖的縣市 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].start |
15300.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].end |
15317.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].text |
同時雲林縣的國小的學生12.15%過重15.99%肥胖近三成的學生體位量紅燈然後根據兒虎聯盟確診調查台灣有五六年級的兒童過重及肥胖率高達30點 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].start |
15320.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].end |
15342.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].text |
這個已經超過全球平均的25%台北市立醫院的和平院區的一個黃主任也特別示警研究顯示肥胖兒童有五成的機率在成年後他還是持續肥胖然後肥胖的青少年有七成的機率也一直肥胖到成年了就像我助理這樣這些數據 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].start |
15347.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].end |
15361.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].text |
我用實際的例子跟各位講,這個請大家嚴肅來面對這些事情因為我也一直希望他,因為這個真的,那些人你太重,其實對自己的身體會負荷坦白講,那個是真的,我這樣看他滿頭大汗 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].start |
15363.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].end |
15385.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].text |
有時候有一些事情比較緊急的他也會很緊張這其實是不好啦我剛才問大家分享所以我想這個減肥減胖這基本上我覺得這課不容易而且我們是超過全球的25%剛剛提到的數據他如果在額頭的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].start |
15388.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].end |
15414.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].text |
有五成的機率在成年後能是回胖的回胖七成的機率還是一直回胖到成年嘛對啊這是一個很嚴肅的事情我們到底要如何讓學童的體態可以獲得控制我們現在就這樣跳繩多多運動還是辦減重比賽我不曉得還有辦減重比賽可以送手機可以送幾支這方式正確嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].start |
15416.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].end |
15437.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].text |
我們沒有要批評是說我們把方法大家在這邊做一個討論因為人數這麼多你用這種方式到底整體的效益在什麼地方我們預期想要可以達到這樣的目標降低為全球的這個平均值這樣做的效果可以嗎多久才有效有辦法去達標那顯然是 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].start |
15441.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].end |
15455.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].text |
是有問題的嘛 這第一個 我的看法那個回邦醫學會在舉辦過記者會也公布數據台灣該把百分之八成的民眾已經認知到回邦是一種疾病喔但是實際有曾經接受到專業的醫療評估的僅21.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].start |
15460.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].end |
15475.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].text |
所以他也不會去求助醫師來予以協助所以現在回胖的認知應該不是說少吃多動就會瘦他要瘦的健康是一個專門的學科 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].start |
15478.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].end |
15492.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].text |
這之前我們講過,我們也講過生性障礙者回胖的對象我們要怎麼協助他們這個都有討論過但是我們現在只有針對小朋友的部分我們的處理方式就是這樣那這樣的方式,坦白講 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].start |
15493.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].end |
15516.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].text |
它是會產生什麼樣的一個效應這站在健康台灣的立場我是覺得這是不對的啦我再講一個啦你們有所謂有推動這個健康幣嘛就鼓勵民眾打疫苗、做篩檢、累積點數都很好康嘛那這個健康幣的APP它僅規劃是18歲以上的民眾 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].start |
15520.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].end |
15537.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].text |
我們覺得不夠嘛我們不能引領往下降然後針對這個部分讓透過積極的衛教的手段讓學童跟家長認知才可以真正的健康減重嘛他來參加衛教可以參與你們這個健康幣的相關的一些獎勵嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].start |
15539.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].end |
15568.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].text |
這是不是可以納入在這個思考的問題就是像委員提到我們這一陣子的瘦瘦身之亂就可以理解到對這個肥胖的控制的概念的觀念的扭曲都是靠藥這是不對的其實是七成靠飲食三成靠運動應該是這樣所以這個觀念如何落實才是難度這個最標準的是異型男 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].start |
15568.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].end |
15584.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].text |
所以我們剛剛您提到的這個我們來所以就是這樣說部長跟署長這個部分就是很怎麼講我們超過全世界的全國的全球的這樣的一個5% |
| transcript.whisperx[614].start |
15585.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].end |
15607.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].text |
我們如何可以透過剛剛部長講的方式就是這個七成的飲食三成的運動還有相關的一些衛教嘛對不對大家是把它當成一個它必須面對的一個疾病來予以處理嘛政府怎麼去獎勵嘛是不是透過我直接講到健康幣啦但是還有很多的方式嘛那我們多久可以低於全球的平均嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].start |
15608.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].end |
15631.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].text |
比如說跟我們說明我們現在TFDA也在做那個食品分級啦健康食品的分級紅黃綠燈也在規劃這個那未來搭配健康幣去連結這個健康食品的形態所以這個就是我們想要把它變成是一個生活的一部分來推啦這個我們來做一個比較完整的規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].start |
15632.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].end |
15646.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].text |
那這個專業就留給部長跟署長看怎麼來處理嘛但是我只要求嘛我們多久的時間可以依照你們的專業的方式方法低於全球的30.2%對不起25%講錯我們是30.2這要再規劃一下這要有比較嚴謹的這不可以隨便喊什麼時候啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].start |
15662.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].end |
15690.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].text |
我跟你說的絕對是嚴謹的啊你說我今天在農莊沒你手你看這樣覺得不夠嚴謹所以我是覺得因為這事情要儘量處理啦因為你要說一年兩年我也不相信但是你就是要有一個不然最起碼怎麼樣規劃可以降低至全球的這個這個這個爬線多久的時間裡面可以研究出來然後提供給委員會做參考你們這樣的方法方案是有用的 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].start |
15694.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].end |
15717.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].text |
我們先來規劃,然後我們三個月給你提一個規劃的方向這個不要三個月啦,好不好這要再找專家學者,不那麼簡單啦沒有啊,你們以前應該做啊,你們不是現在這麼做的啊你們以前做就是那個方法不對啊,不好啊,不就繼續廢啊,就是這樣啊所以要再調整啦,要檢討一下過去的做法,然後未來怎麼做這肥胖確實是一個大問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].start |
15718.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].end |
15722.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].text |
對啦 兩個月啦謝謝 謝謝部長 謝謝署長謝謝 謝謝委員好 謝謝劉建國委員接下來請葉元之委員發言主席好 麻煩請部長有請史部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].start |
15747.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].end |
15770.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].text |
部長現在因為中東戰事關係所以其實蠻多人會擔心會不會出現缺藥潮那我現在有兩個層面來跟部長討論一下第一個是說我們衛福部大概一年會有兩個時間會調漲或調降藥價嘛對不對那最近一次是4月1號4月1號我看資料是顯示說有調了大概2000多項的藥 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].start |
15773.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].end |
15799.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].text |
調伏是說平均一點多啦但是平均但是以大家比較常領的藥來講有的是有調降10%的也有調降6%的所以如果這樣換算下來有時候一顆可能就差到50到60塊那這個會造成什麼一個狀況呢就是藥局啊因為會預想到4月1號就會調降嘛所以他一定不會大量去買藥嘛因為怕說 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].start |
15800.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].end |
15827.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].text |
那當然要等到4月1號再去買買的比較便宜嘛那現在如果買的比較多成本就比較高啊可是4月1號剛好又遇到什麼情況呢4月1號又碰到有時候碰到廉價廉價就會影響物流所以等到他可能4月1號他去下單下單之後又碰到物流配送要上班才能處理這些事情嘛那實際上藥局拿到藥可能有可能4月10號或之後的事 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].start |
15828.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].end |
15834.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].text |
那在這個連假期間大家有可能就有些大家比較常去領的藥廚房欠的藥就沒有了 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].start |
15835.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].end |
15864.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].text |
那沒有的話怎麼辦呢就很不方便然後就要到醫院去或什麼之類的所以這個我不知道部長有沒有什麼調整的方案我這邊一個建議啦你參考一下其實你第一個你就調降調降藥價不要這麼頻繁因為你調的這麼頻繁藥局就很困擾就是會一直去思考說怎麼控管那個庫存對不對這造成藥局的困擾第二件事情是會影響到用藥人的方便性 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].start |
15865.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].end |
15887.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].text |
所以我覺得可以朝兩個方向第一個是不要調降的那麼頻繁第二個是你如果硬要這麼頻繁的話你可以考慮不要在4月1號因為4月就是會碰到連假你如果在比如說5月或是其他的月份的話至少不會有連假嘛那在配送各方面不會有剛剛產生的問題不知道你覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].start |
15888.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].end |
15913.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].text |
好 謝謝委員的這個建議這個很好我們按照健保法64條是每年調一次藥價所以這個是一年一次不會有兩次那第二個我們今年已經把這個調整的幅度還有品項都大幅的限縮所以我們健保的藥一共14000多項那這次調整的只有2000多項所以大多數是沒有改變 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].start |
15914.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].end |
15930.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].text |
那麼同時我們也會提早把它預告出來所以這個要價的調整是在2月底就已經發布那個價格都已經知道了但是委員的建議很好讓我們現在總統已經宣布我們明年開始暫停 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].start |
15931.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].end |
15956.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].text |
要價調整三年那在這個三年間我們會把剛剛委員提的這個建議包含這個調整的頻率是不是有的可以拉長一點就比較老藥已經很久的那這個就不需要每年調了讓它頻率拉長一點那麼另外這個調的時候的幅度啦機期啦方式包含月份這個都可以納入我們未來在這個要價調整辦法修訂的時候來討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].start |
15959.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].end |
15973.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].text |
好那但是我剛剛講的還是會發生嘛就是4月1號 忙就來啦4月1號這個狀況忙就到了嘛那雖然你說1萬多項只調2000多項但這2000多項裡面就是有比較常用的藥物嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].start |
15974.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].end |
16003.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].text |
對所以您的回答沒有解決我的問題啦好不好應該還好因為都提早讓他們知道了這樣但是你讓他知道他還是很難控啦他就是要4月1號去買所以這個提醒您啦好不好我是因為我們常常在基層跑啦常常會聽到拿不到藥的狀況啦真的希望衛福部啊或食藥署真的比較關注這一塊啦因為這是便民的啦好不好而且拿不到藥真的會對健康也會有影響那第二件事情喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].start |
16004.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].end |
16031.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].text |
因為現在中東戰事所以有一些比如說裝藥的瓶子然後一些塑膠的東西可能斷貨我有看到有藥廠已經直接跟公藥的藥局發出一個通知說未來有一些報價要依他的當時下單的時候的原物料的價格來做調整所以換言之可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].start |
16033.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].end |
16053.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].text |
我不知道因為中東戰事到底會持續多久沒有人說的準那是不是藥價或是相關的藥品的價格會提高那衛福部有針對這件事情做出什麼因應的方案嗎有注意到這個事情嗎有已經有注意到了所以我們第一步先盤點可能受影響的藥品跟醫材有哪一些重要的我們大概已經盤點好 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].start |
16054.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].end |
16081.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].text |
那盤點完之後也發現這些其實都有國內的藥的廠商可以製造所以再來就是原料的問題那原料的部分的這多數呢會影響到的就是那個塑膠為例那個要做這些包材或者是醫材需要的那我們也透過經濟部還有物價平穩平台那會不會造成說然後價格的部分我們也請廠商報評出他們的影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].start |
16082.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].end |
16092.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].text |
成本的影響那超出的部分我們可以調高要價我們要價不是只有往下也可以往上調你會機動調高要價對對對但是確保不斷貨啦好不好對對對確保不斷貨OK好謝謝好謝謝謝謝葉委員好謝謝葉遠之委員那接下來請陳盈委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].start |
16124.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].end |
16136.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].text |
麻煩請石兄梁部長有請石部長我想先那個好那個我們先看一下就是說按照這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].start |
16138.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].end |
16154.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].text |
社家署整理的提供的资料我们台东的托婴中心的服务量是相当严重不足的台东有16个乡镇目前我们只有两个乡镇有托婴中心 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].start |
16155.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].end |
16176.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].text |
台東育嬰的這個生活型態如果是跟這個都會區來比較的話呢看起來似乎是家庭照顧的方式是比例比較高的也就是說父母自己請假或者是離職自己帶小孩那或者是這個阿公阿嬤幫忙帶 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].start |
16177.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].end |
16198.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].text |
那如果看到這個統計資料的這個最左邊這一欄呢0到2歲的這個人數兩歲以下的嬰幼兒每一個這個鄉鎮都有好幾十個甚至上百個所以每一個鄉鎮甚至台東市最多都會有這個拖延的需求那我們如果說把這個台東 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].start |
16200.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].end |
16214.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].text |
托嬰服務的量能跟人口相近的台北市中山區來比較那我們這個台東零到二歲的嬰幼兒比台北市中山區我們台東市就2425位 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].start |
16218.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].end |
16239.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].text |
那再比較這個台北市中山區2325個那台北市中山區的托嬰中心卻有34間台東全縣我們全縣大概有170幾公里 將近200公里長我們全縣也只有11間 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].start |
16241.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].end |
16267.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].text |
台北市中山區托嬰中心可收容的可收托的這個人數是台東全縣的三倍那這個就是台東托嬰中心嚴重不足的情形我們換算一下就是我們台東托嬰其實不到一成但是呢台北中山區就可以將近五成 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].start |
16268.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].end |
16286.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].text |
我們再看台東的拖音地點 不管公司力全部都幾乎集中在台東市區金峰鄉也才在去年成立一間而已 我有去參加他們的開幕 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].start |
16288.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].end |
16317.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].text |
那我在這邊要請教一下部長就是面對這個台東托嬰中心分布嚴重不足那服務量能跟這個都會區很明顯落差的情形中央到底要怎麼樣來協助地方來強化托育資源的這個設點跟服務的覆蓋讓我們各鄉鎮都有基本的托育支持我要在在你回答之前呢我要特別強調一件事就是說雖然我們現在都在鼓勵 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].start |
16318.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].end |
16334.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].text |
鼓勵年輕人生育嘛但是我們生育給了補助但是生完孩子慢慢長大在這成長的過程當中你不能讓這些嬰幼兒嬰兒幼兒沒有地方去 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].start |
16335.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].end |
16349.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].text |
沒有機會被拖延因為這個會影響到的是這個我們在這個社會當中承載著要賺錢養家要養父母還要養小孩的這一群中間分子 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].start |
16352.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].end |
16373.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].text |
變成說好啦我就算拿到生育獎金又如何呢我接下來我也沒有辦法出去工作啊因為我要留下來顧我的孩子啊所以政府要去鼓勵生育這件事情喔其實應該要一條龍要全面性面面都要聚到不然你到這個環節你顧了這個在獎勵生完之後那 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].start |
16377.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].end |
16393.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].text |
養是一回事啊那就是說中間我們先不要檢討到後面好了0到2歲光拖映這個你台東欸台東就為什麼要超級可憐才不到一成這真的很誇張今天統計起來部長你覺得這樣的分佈是合理的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].start |
16395.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].end |
16418.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].text |
確實有可以再提升的地方啦所以我們來看看我們雖然過去是對於這個偏鄉資源不夠的地方都是優先的補助但是我們來研究看看對於這些更偏鄉的地方那麼把它的這個補助的金額提高一些來創造這個誘因啦這個我們來研究一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].start |
16418.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].end |
16447.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].text |
好我待會也會有個案來跟部長討論那目前就是說我們是不是起碼首先我們趕快衛福部來協助地方政府來盤點目前設有的這個幼兒園的這個學校那畢竟你如果從這個幼兒園或者是其他類似可行方便讓這個學校學習的這個年齡可以向下延伸的 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].start |
16448.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].end |
16470.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].text |
也就是說學校如果已經有設置幼兒園的那我們中央是不是同步來協助讓他再設置這個托嬰中心那或者其實我們在偏鄉有些也是結合教會或者結合有一些關懷據點或者是文化健康站 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].start |
16471.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].end |
16482.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].text |
好那他們的那個地點其實有時候是一個多功能的一個場域好這些會節省很多的經費跟時間好所以這個部分請你們立刻來寫入盤點好那 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].start |
16486.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].end |
16509.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].text |
再來就是說目前我們台東設置的幼兒園學校有37所其實也不是很多啦那目前這個分布我們今天沒有特別準備但你們要了解一下因為幼兒園搞不好分布也是跟托嬰中心有可能也是一樣都很不平均所以我們就協助地方盤點這個托嬰的需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].start |
16512.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].end |
16527.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].text |
盤點這個需求之後呢例如開辦費啊或者其他相關的費用也希望讓中央來全力的來協助讓我們台東每一個這個鄉鎮都有一個基本 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].start |
16528.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].end |
16544.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].text |
的這個托育的這個服務讓我們年輕的這些夫妻可以感生讓年輕人願意留在台東那也在這邊特別提醒一下因為目前大家要看一下所有的這個中心 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].start |
16546.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].end |
16567.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].text |
全部都集中在台東市那一個在京豐那我們試想一下好了我們如果今天是從海端鄉出發到台東那也要耗掉超過一個小時吧那蘭嶼更不用講難道還要坐船把嬰兒送到台東市來嗎那我最後我就提一個個案 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].start |
16569.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].end |
16594.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].text |
像剛剛提到的部長也說盡量來全力來協助台東這個問題台東的托嬰中心是嚴重不足那我們來看一下池上鄉公所他們把舊的幼兒園準備翻修改成托嬰中心可是鄉公所在規劃建置的過程當中也因為之前在野黨 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].start |
16595.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].end |
16624.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].text |
修正這個財化法導致財力分級調整之後中央對地方的補助跟比例也調整了那池上鄉的這個托嬰中心就受到很大的衝擊當然現在的問題是說好即便這個縣府可能在今年有多一點的補助但是縣府願不願意把這個補助給特定的這個鄉鎮 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].start |
16625.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].end |
16639.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].text |
好 這個是不好說的好 這個就要看縣長 看縣府團隊的意願那他們有他們的考量所以這個部分池上鄉公所它是依照衛福部去年公告的計畫內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].start |
16640.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].end |
16655.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].text |
台東縣政府有幫鄉公所在去年9月是送案了那我在去年也向衛福部有關心的這個案子那整個這個建置這個整建的計畫總共1519萬元社家署已經在去年有合併補助1440萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].start |
16658.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].end |
16676.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].text |
好但是這樣的高興只持續了一個禮拜因為在1月7號行政院依據這個我剛剛提了在野黨修正財化法內容之後呢把這個台東的這個財力分級列為第一之後呢自籌款本來從5%提高到30% |
| transcript.whisperx[661].start |
16677.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].end |
16693.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].text |
那公所呢原本只要自籌79萬現在變成455萬那這個對公所的這個比例上的提高財政影響就非常大因為他未必是縣府的優先選擇那這個就好像有一個人我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].start |
16694.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].end |
16724.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].text |
我們如果說店家在這個店家的價目表我已經下定買了一個一百塊的東西那店家也把發票給他了結果交貨的時候都抱歉現在要五百塊這個是一個很奇怪的邏輯啦所以池上鄉托嬰中心的這個情形是不是可以能夠拜託部長這邊就是說不需要再重新提報行政院然後仍然可以按照原本的比例來補助鄉公所這個部分也希望部長可以支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].start |
16727.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].end |
16748.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].text |
確實這個台東因為這個新的財化法修正之後造成他的那個財力等級被變到第一級所以造成那個統籌分配款上明顯的減少不過我們會考慮到這個醫療相關的資源的這個豐沛程度我們會來重新思考所以委員的建議我們會來 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].start |
16750.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].end |
16777.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].text |
也希望在最短的時間有好的答案讓這個工程已經合併的不要受到影響謝謝陳英武委員本日會議詢答全部結束委員柯志恩、范雲、徐欣盈所提書面諮詢列入紀錄刊登公報現在做一下決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].start |
16781.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].end |
16807.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].text |
說明及詢答完畢二委員質詢未及答覆或請補充資料者請相關機關於兩週內以書面答覆委員另要求期限者從其鎖定三委員謝一鳳等19人名具兒童及少年福利與權益保障法第31條條文修正草案等72案尚未審查完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].start |
16808.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].end |
16815.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].text |
令擇期繼續審查本日會議到此結束現在休息明天上午九時繼續開會 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].start |
16840.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].end |
16840.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].text |
嗯嗯嗯 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].start |
16875.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].end |
16876.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].text |
MING PAO CANADA MING PAO TORONTO |