| IVOD_ID |
17277 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17277 |
| 日期 |
2026-03-18 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-22-2 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第2次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
2 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
22 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
教育及文化委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第2次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2026-03-18T08:35:57+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-03-18T12:54:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
04:18:03 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/3832c314c43c373d8c1e201b3fb6835a759859c2ec950ca3157d0edf07c12ea6baa491850b161a715ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-03-18T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：一、 邀請核能安全委員會主任委員陳明真列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。
二、 邀請核能安全委員會、經濟部、台灣電力股份有限公司就「我國核電廠再運轉之規劃及推動現況」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
【3月18日及19日二天一次會】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:35:57 - 12:54:00 |
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SPEAKER_14 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
1672.863 |
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1689.137 |
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報告委員會初席委員10人已經達到法定人數我們現在開會那本次會議是週三週四一次會首先我們進行報告事項請議事人員宣讀上次會議議事錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1691.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1708.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
立法院第十一屆第五會期教育及文化委員會第一次全體委員會議事錄時間中華民國一五年三月十一日上午九時七分至九時九分地點本院秦賢樓101會議室出席委員羅志強委員等十四人主席陳委員秀寶報告事項一 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1708.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1722.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
本院第十一屆第五會期各委員會召集委員選舉時間及地點業經體育院提報本院第十一屆第五會期第一次會議報告決定照案通過在案二 宣讀第十一屆第五會期本會召集委員選舉人名冊選舉事項 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1725.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1746.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
選舉第十一屆第五會期本會召集委員依本院各委員會組織法第三條之四規定本院召集委員兩人由本會委員與本會期互選產生另按本院各委員會召集委員選舉辦法第五條規定召集委員之選舉以無記名單計法票選之但經各 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1747.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1774.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
該委員會全體委員或經各黨團及未參加黨團之該委員會委員之書面同意亦得以推選方式行之主席宣告推選樓委員廷委及吳委員立法為立法院第十一屆第五會期教育及文化委員會召集委員報告宣讀完畢好請問各位委員上次會議議事錄有沒有錯誤或遺漏的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1776.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1805.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
好 议事录确定那本次会议议程是第一个部分邀请河安会主委陈明珍列席报告业务概况并被质询第二个部分邀请河安会经济部台电就我国核电厂载运转之规划及推动现况进行专题报告并被质询现在我们来介绍在场的委员 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1807.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1828.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
好第一位我們介紹羅廷偉召委第二位柯智恩委員第三位陳秀寶委員第四位陳培宇委員那現在我們來介紹與會的官員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1832.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1861.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
因为今天是第一次我们就全部介绍何安慧陈明珍主委张欣副主委王崇德主命辐射侦测中心陈志平主任纵规组李启思组长何安管制组高斌组长 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1863.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1888.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
辐射防护组张淑君组长保安应变组林真炫组长核物料管制组陈文权组长秘书是邱清威主任人事是吴建业主任主纪是何云英主任 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1890.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1915.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
政風市黃炯正主任國家原子能科技研究院高子牧院長經濟部賴建信常務次長國營事業管理司林伯向兼任記政管理司林華宇專門委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1918.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
1943.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
经济部能源署夏玉泉组长经济部水利署简振元主任秘书台电公司徐永辉副总台电张晗熙专业总工程师中油黄荣裕副总 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
1946.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
1964.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
好谢谢大家辛苦了那我们这一次的会议是采一并报告综合询答那我们现在就开始进行报告我们请何安慧陈明珍主委报告时间是十分钟 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
1974.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2002.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
主席 各位委员女士先生 大家好今天很荣幸代表核能安全委员会并接同各单位主管向大院进行业务报告首先向大院委员对本会各项工作知识与指教至上敬意及谢诚核安会是我国核能及服务安全的主管机关独立行使原子能安全管制工作以下请就强化原子能安全管制等三项工作重点进行报告进行委员不定指教 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2003.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2025.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
首先在强化原子能安全管制部分针对核电厂安全管制本会持续对国内核电厂执行安全审查及现场视察监督台电公司各项作业符合法规及安全要求此外本会正进行再继续运转审查之先期准备工作以做好核电厂换刷申请之安全管制作业 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2027.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2053.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
在放射性废弃物安全管制部份本会持续完成核一厂九组室外干组互相运组作业管制并办理核二厂干组兴建检查及完成试问者计划审查严格审查核二厂处于低放储存库建造执照申请案及多项储存设施换照作业并严密监视国营院实现六幅化学核物物料万用作业以确保各项安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2055.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2079.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
在强化核灾应变作业部分本会持续试尝核电厂准备今年将在核二厂举行核安演习将使用过燃料池意外保安事件及复核式灾害等纳入演习情境强化核电厂应变准备此外本会持续与美国能源部合作办理辐射灾害应变技术教育强化应变智能 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2080.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2099.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
在辐射民生应用安全转制方面本会办高强度辐射设施执照申请案审查执行放射线照相检验工地不预警稽查导入移动型辐射源科技监控技术及推动测试作业并建置 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2099.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2112.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
新一代辐射源安全管理资讯化系统平台机辐射安全防护文化数位学习网强化资讯管理系统管制效能并精进辐射从业人员专业智能 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2118.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2141.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
在海陆域辐射监测方面持续维持全台63座环境辐射监测站稳定运作并针对全国放射性落成及核设施周围等进行检测检测结果均无异常另外针对日本寒川废水排放部分持续跨部会合作执行海域监测2014年完成4918 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2143.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2160.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
建设分析结果无异常同时将持续优化放射性物质海域扩散海洋资讯平台以提升资讯透明完整性接下来包括妥善运动原子能科技部分在拓展国际交流并妥善 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2162.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2182.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
核子保防义务部分持续与美国、日本等核安管制机构定期召开会议进行交流并与国际原子能总统共同举办2025年国际原子能总统保防措施安全研讨会以提升我国核子保防管制技术效能与跨机关沟通 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2184.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2208.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
在推动公众沟通与原子能科普教育部分,本会设立全民参与事务咨询会,针对社会关注之议题之沟通模式,邀请咨询委员给予指导与建议,另办理原子能科普展,参与科学及灾防推广活动,并办理教师研习课程,以多元管道扩大原子能科普资讯传播。 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2209.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2235.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
为推动原子能科技创新及人才培育本会持续与国科会共同辅助学研机构执行专题研究计划1月4年共培育博士硕士人才80名并积极投入太空用太阳等电池与高温电浆开发关键技术的开发持续强化我国原子能科技研究能量 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2238.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2263.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
此外本会参与国家药物韧性准备计划建国稳定自主药品供应体系与智慧物流储备中心以提升我国合一药物韧性与服务灾应变能力令关于70mEV中型回旋加速器建制部分建筑结构主体于2014年10月完成截至2015年2月整体工程进度达92.86% |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2265.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2278.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
此外本会持续补助国务院院执行各项计划发展次世代能源和护照机构及净零科技技术研发国务院院自一一四年起执行 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2280.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2302.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
小规模模组化的第四代核子反应器研究强化五国四世代核能技术自主能力并应用其在核安、核废与法治方面相关语题及培育新一代核能技术专业领域人才在核中核技术研发部分国研院已经完成国内首次求新TOKMAC研究用实验装置 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2303.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2319.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
核心系统建设与实验场域准备展现我国自主研发之关键能力在核武后端自主能力建立方面国有院运用核设施清理经验及技术建立本土厨艺技术自主能力并配合政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2320.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2338.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
完成能源转型政策开发铺垛源产芯技术完成电解单元组装电解堆之产芯测试结合本土木竹碳汇及萃取技术产生木质素 乳酸 酒精等低碳产品进行近年碳排并推动循环经济 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2342.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2366.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
本会将依法独立行使职权,持续执行核能辐射及放射性物质安全管制工作,图示精进原子能及科技研发,拓展相关民生应用,并落实资讯公开及公众参与,以增进民生辐射局环境永续。接下来针对我国核电厂再运转之规划及推动状况进行专案报告。 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2367.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2394.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
河安会是核能安全主管机关负责监督核电厂安全就大众关系核电再继续运转议题以核安管制立场来进行说明目前我国核一二三厂运转机制造均已届期机主进入厨艺并依规划执行干除设施作业核安会持续进行相关安全管制工作核安会以依法修 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2395.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2419.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
修订核管法修正条文修订执法及定义相关审查导则完备法规程序与安全技术要求若核电厂要再继续运转台电应依法提出申请并减负两份送审主要文件其一是在运转计划及其执行结果报告确定基因属 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2421.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2448.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
将机组设备恢复,其二是提出老化评论报告等相关报告,确认在继续运转期间的安全。核安会已办理安全审查准备的工作,包括专业训练,延续美国核电厂换造申请,及处理机组恢复运转之经验,强化管制专业,并规划在核安会网站设置专区公开相关资讯。 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2449.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2476.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
并办理地方说明会收集公众意见作为管制参考如台电公司提出换照申请核安会将依法参照国际标准与做法严格执行安全审查与现场查证确认符合法规安全要求后才会同意换发论断执照以上报告不尽之处进行委员指教 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2478.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2485.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
好謝謝何安慧陳明珍主委接下來有請經濟部賴建信次長做報告報告時間5分鐘請 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2493.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2510.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
主席 各位委員 大家好 陳文貴委員會的邀請到這邊來跟各位進行專案的報告專案報告分為以下幾點說明 第一點有關於重啟核電需謹守三個原則 去年 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2511.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2535.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
5月公布了核子反應器設施管理辦法第6條修正後明定執照屆滿屆期之後可依法申請犯法並於去年8月23公民投票案後總統即宣誓使用核能必須秉持兩個必須第一個核安會依法訂定安全審查程序辦法第二 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2537.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2563.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
台電依該辦法自主安全檢查其中核子反應器設施運轉執照申請審核辦法第16條等修正案在去年的10月8號公正式公告後明定經營者得備託相關評估報告及再運轉計畫向主管機關申請政府在核安無與核廢有解社會共識三大原則下積極面對 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2565.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2567.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
核能议题第二 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2568.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2596.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
核電廠再運轉的規劃本部去年11月27合併台電公司各核能電廠現況評估報告該報告以詳實的檢視機組設備維護人力配置地質耐震條件及安全設計等關鍵面向經濟部也同意台電公司對各核電廠之初步評估 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2597.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2605.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
合一廠不具在運轉可行性已加速進行除役合二廠及合三廠需判定 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2606.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2633.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
据再运转的条件台电公司依法同步进行自主安全检查及掩体再运转计划而再运转计划需涵盖设备维护检测检查长期停机储备现况人力的持照及各项恢复运转的项目台电公司预计在今年的3月将河山厂再运转计划提送河安会 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2633.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2660.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
那有關自主安全檢查去確認各項設備是否需汰換或執行老化管理以符合法規條件及安全要求那這個工作的時間核三廠預計在1.5年到兩年內可以完成那各核電廠也有相關的這個規劃那預計在115年度可取得執行若是 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2662.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2680.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
這個核廢料的這個處理核二廠的室外乾除設施在今年的3月6號取得同意試運轉計畫預計115年年底也就是今年可取得運轉的執照並進行燃料的移出作業 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2681.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2704.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
为落实总统宣誓的两个必须经济部将严格督导台电公司执行核二厂核三厂自主安全检查台电公司自主安全检查后将接受国外专业机构同才评估并送核安会审查有关核电重启经济部以开放而谨慎的态度 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2705.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2732.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
評估是否滿足三個原則並對新型核能技術保持開放的態度持續追蹤國際發展趨勢經濟部將致力落實依法依科學透明的核安管制制度確保台電公司執行核電廠的自主安全檢查及再運轉準備工作以上報告進行指教 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2734.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2745.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
谢谢经济部赖建信长次接下来我们有请台电公司徐永辉副总经理报告报告时间五分钟请 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2753.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2768.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
主席各位委員那今天陳文貴委員會呢邀請台電公司就我國核電廠再運轉的這個規劃跟推動現況說明如下台電公司是一個能源政策的一個執行的單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2769.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2791.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
那台電公司肩負了台灣供電的需求跟他的責任那核能的使用呢也必須要謹遵整個法規的規範跟核能安全的最高準則核管法第六條跟運轉執照申請審核辦法的第十六條已經分別在二零二五年的五月二十三跟十月八號呢公告修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2793.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2821.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
在这两个条文里面其实已经明定核电厂运转执照届期后呢如果我需要再运转者呢经营者得备妥相关的评估报告及再运转计划呢向主管机关呢申请那本公司也依法呢展开了核一二三厂的一个现况评估经济部也在呢2025年的10月27号呢核定了整个核电厂现况的一个评估报告 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2822.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2850.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
那評估的判定裡面核二核三廠具有再運轉的條件所以台電公司就依運轉製造申請審的辦法啟動了自主的安全檢查以及延提了一個再運轉的計畫那本公司現在正進行核二三廠的再運轉的一個整備的工作就再運轉計畫及自主安全檢查的進度說明如下 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2851.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2860.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
台電公司依據了核職反應器設施運轉執照申請審核辦法的第16條之一,嚴提再運轉計畫的各章節內容,這包括設備的維護、檢測、檢查、長期停機的一個儲備的現況、人力執照及各項恢復運轉的各項目。 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2873.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2892.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
目前預定在這個月底如期會把核三廠的再運轉的整備計畫提送整個核安會來進行審查本公司依據了核子反應器設置運轉執照申請審核辦法的第16條也來執行所謂的自主安全檢查 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2894.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2916.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
目的是為了確認各項設備呢我是否需要去汰換或者執行老化管理來符合法規條件跟他的安全的要求這其中呢自主安全檢查涉及到原廠的一個自衛產產權的一個技術評估跟他的安全分析所以這部分呢必須要仰賴原廠的團隊的一個專業協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2918.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2941.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
那美國西屋公司也在今年的二月就核三廠兩個部分一個是檢測的部分一個是老化評估的這一部分也展開了相關的工作另外我們在國內也委由工研院跟國研院共組跟西屋共組的一個團隊來執行整個核三廠的安全的一個評估 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2942.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2961.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
至於核二廠因為核二廠自主安全檢查目前他反應爐內的燃料是滿的沒辦法移出所以必須要等到室外乾除的設施完工以後將反應爐內的用過燃料退出以後才可以進行整個反應爐內部的自主安全檢查的項目 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2963.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
2987.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
本公司依法進行核電廠運轉執照換發的一個申請程序自主安全檢查完成後也將接受國外專業機構的技術的同儕的評估並送請核安會審查那個審查的期程一樣尊重核安會專業的權責本公司後續將依核安會的申請的檢查結果來辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
2989.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
2999.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
最後做一個結語台電公司是一個能源執行的單位秉持核能安全的專業跟標準除了依據法規辦以外也將參考國際同儕進行標竿學習確保核安無虞 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3005.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3027.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
本公司兼顾供电需求的责任依法准备载运转计划及执行的自主安全检查以上请就本公司核电厂载运转规划及推动的现况进行报告恳请各位委员先进的会议支持与指教谢谢好谢谢台电徐永辉副总的报告 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3029.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3044.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
機關代表都已經報告完畢相關的書面資料請各位參閱並列入公報記錄現在開始進行詢答每位出席委員質詢6分鐘必要時延長2分鐘列席委員質詢時間是 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3047.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3051.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
首先请登记第一位柯志恩委员质询 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3079.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3079.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
请三个机关代表谢谢 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3106.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3134.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
好谢谢三位那我想受到美伊战争的一些影响大家都非常担心有关于天然气供给的一个压力昨天我在总质询的时候呢经济部长特别保证说在三月四月在调度上是没有问题五月应该也还是OK但是呢因为这个成本会提高但是呢可能这个大概提高是两成这是经济部长所提到的那我想请问次长如果成本提高两成这些会不会反映在我们的电价上面 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3137.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3159.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
首先跟委員說明我們對於天然氣的調度沒有問題我們現在時間有限我就要問陳主委但是你先告訴我會不會影響到我們電價一個電價審議我們尊重電價審議委員會的專業的審議事實上行政院也多方的在穩定物價的部分去做努力相關的工作會議所以現在目前還不確定是在電價上面會不會 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3161.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3190.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
像目前为止还没有办法确定是所以现在目前为止还没有办法确定这个4月5月电价会不会因此做调整这个依照这个月底的电价审议所以说3月底才会知道因为中油目前来说他们过去盈余大概今年盈余转亏转亏为盈大概有80亿但是因为中东战争的方法他们搞不好要因为要自主吸收搞不好连亏这个7年了那台电目前为止我们还是不晓得就是电价有没有因此受到影响好 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3191.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3213.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
所以3月底我们等审议小组之后才知道电价可不可以受到波动这是你的回应没错吧好来我们接下来问一下我们的陈主委因为目前为止这个河山在运转的计划3月底就会送到这个河安会那工部长就特别提到这个安全检查大概需要一年半到两年那因为我们河山才刚刚停机时间不久 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3213.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3243.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
而且停机之前都会造一些规定来完成一些税收跟安全检查你是专业你认为需要到一年半到两年吗因为有些专家认为以这样的部分来看的话其实时间可以再缩短一年这就看台电提出的报告是不是很完整很齐全那你自己核安的专业你认为核三是不是要要到这么久有没有可能在2027或者是更早的时间甚至在2026年底因为它才刚停机不久啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3244.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3269.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
这个需要时间来检查一般来说是需要很严格的检查天哪我站在这个地方连问两个我都问不到答案你们每个都在说要看看什么另外一个单位来处理你核安会是一个很轴心的部分你过去就是一个核安的专家你认为一定要到一年半到两年吗需要这么久吗如果台电的准备工作做得很好的话当然时间可以缩短那台电准备工作做得怎么样 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3270.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3296.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
我现在还没看到报告三月底来好那我们来看一下一般来说这个台电跟西屋的燃料采购的合约大概在几年内就会失效那一般来说在合约有效前下单的话燃料棒大概在18个月就有办法供应如果你失效之后再来order的话你可能需要等三年那我想请问台电目前你跟西屋的合约还剩下几年 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3298.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3314.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
目前跟西屋的合约目前都是还有还是有效的所以有没有可能在他合约之内就先行来做这样子目前来讲因为我们有优先的选择全合三场还有两批所以这一部分其实随时我如果下单那随时就是八个月的 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3315.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3333.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
都可以就有办法嘛所以有机会嘛对不对那核二相对就比较复杂一点因为核二它停机已经断断时间所以它安全检查需要耗费一些的时间那有没有可能核二也是比较核三的方法分阶段提出运转的文件然后再送运转计划然后再补安全检查的资料会不会跟核三一样 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3335.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3359.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
相關的這個程序其實台電公司都是依照台電都是依照合約然後我都會背起來根據大家來說第一個要核安第二個就是核廢料要有地方第三個要社會共識這三個都是過去2016到現在這三個前提都在我剛在報告裡面有提到實際上就是依據運轉執照第16條之一跟第16條呢依法提出相關的 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3360.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3381.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
再來再轉計畫所以核二的部分跟奇異公司沒有這個核燃料的合約所以在國際上的部分他應該是還要再排隊至少等三年以核二目前來看的話應該還是要等三年這應該是確定的嘛對不對第一我要澄清的他目前的燃料不是向奇異購買目前的燃料是向另外一家公司購買 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3381.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3410.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
那就是他因为他目前已经没有在合约所以应该照国际的规准应该还在至少等三年这是我们对核二如果万一还在启动的话这是一个问题那核废料的这个最终的处置的方法来我们请问谁可以这个经济部应该来回应因为你们去年大动作的成立一个这个废弃物的这个专案办公室告诉我们说你们要处理最终的这个作业但目前为止的草案在什么地方已经有任何的一个方式了吗 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3411.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3438.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
去年4月我们成立了这个办公室之后广泛的收集各国在有关于高阶核废料最终处置不管是法治的所以你到底目前为止草案有没有现在还在持续当中所以说呢因为有一个专案办公室所以到底什么时候草案可以拿得出来你们的广泛的咨询还有更看国外的资料到底什么时候可以给我们一个比较是粗略的方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3439.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3443.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
因為草案嘛這個基本上我們要看到現在國際上最新的這個作惡狀況次長我從剛剛問到現在我都還是問不出一個結果來因為永遠都要說起這麼多事實上核廢料的最終處置的這個部分是從以前到現在就是應該做的一個方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3457.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3479.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
现在还在做这个研究研析草案都拿不出来而且最重要是已经有专案办公室了我现在问一下陈主委已经有专案办公室的你们也主动的邀请这些人来做开会根据你们的会议记录当中都是河安卫给予这样的一个建议单方面给予建议那这个专案办公室好像没有给你应对的回应是不是这样子 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3479.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3481.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
他們已經做了一些法案的準備工作了 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3507.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3517.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
而且你何阿蔚還替經濟部說話你說不參與專辦是為了避免裁員兼裁判那我就要問你你以前在非核小組的時候你也是裁員兼裁判你怎麼沒有這樣去想 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3518.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3540.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
主委不被爱的人才真的是第三者了真的是所以说我真的是到目前为止我觉得你们真的是已经对于台韵的力道也不像以前以前你们还有开立违规的事项然后如果问台电如果你每次收到何安威的违规事项之后有任何的推进或什么吗因为何安威还是一个监督的小组 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3540.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3569.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
以前台電遇到這種狀況的時候呢現在目前為止 河安會每年向台電開立延宕低放的這個最終處置的計畫的違規事項然後現在好像變成例行公事了你們每次開罰單台電好像也不痛不癢的那現在呢 更是因為有專案辦公室之後你現在也不開罰單還把它列為注意改進事項陳主委 你不覺得河安會現在已經已經這麼樣一個監督安全單位已經變成做的這個樣子你那沒有任何的意見嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3572.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3596.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
報告委員 我們之所以將台電公司的違規促改其實最主要原因還是因為台電公司有持續引入那個成熟技術在這個整個技術的開發作業中所以我們考量這一點才所以你們這樣有督促到台電可以給你們我們剛所提到的每一項的一個規範嗎 有嗎你們滿意嗎你們有滿意嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3600.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3619.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
我們不滿意所以才會開註改要求那以前是違規現在是注意改進這兩個層次是差很多耶反正你不管猜什麼啦基本上核安會如果以這樣的一個態度的話其實各機關其實不會鳥你們的啦好最後一個SM2的部分裡面提報4年10億的這個長期計畫遇到2030至少到2030所以說到實際的雙轉預計到什麼時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3626.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3638.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
因為這是全世界的一個趨勢,目前有辦法算出到什麼時間嗎?目前依照西方世界非紅色供應鏈,應該是2030甚至早一兩年有機會 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3648.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3663.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
提出三转的产品但是因为很多是新型的像Ninscale这种是那你们有没有考虑像很多国家都是跟像美国的这个西屋电器他们其实有一些的方式有没有考虑应该合作然后可以让这个时间提前 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3664.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3692.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
是 包括我們西屋公司去年半年前跟兩個月前都來我們院裡跟我們做很詳細的討論他們開發的所以說有一些的合作計畫可能也在旅行有有有 我們這七月還要去拜訪好 因為這已經是一個世界的一個趨勢了然後目前來說可能這個還是一樣SML萬一有的話這個選址到底在什麼地方有沒有事先的規劃這可能要讓我們國人事先能夠來做一個了解然後你們到時候的核管法是用原來的核管法 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3693.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3708.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
还是要用新的一个方式这也是你们要来做处理的好不好诸位其实很多目前重新你的专业又重新被看到了请你可以更理直气壮一点该做的该要求的都应该来做好好的这样处理可以吗 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3709.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3733.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
我现在把你们希望昨天在总咨询的时候还希望把你们从三级变成二级可是你要展现出你的魄力啊我是不是给你back up你告诉到时候结果你都哈哈都完全遵照我都不晓得该怎么帮你讲话了谢谢委员太关心好谢谢谢谢好谢谢柯真委员接下来请陈培宇委员咨询 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3739.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3752.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
好 谢谢主席那个副总经理不用坐回去了有请副总经理还有经济部次长还有河安会主委谢谢好 请三个机关代表上至巡台 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3755.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3776.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
好 我們來看一下這個投影片第一張在右手邊是我看到經濟部關於網路上一些造謠圖卡的回應我要說這一次中東戰事的因應確實行政院整個動作很快但是呢 非常多網路的網友造謠的動作也很快而且甚至快過經濟部 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3777.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3801.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
所以次長你們很快出了這個圖卡但是我要提醒次長在這個狀態目前戰爭的局勢未明之下請問經濟部有沒有判斷有沒有任何的造謠的因應動作或者是手段來請次長回應一下因為這個事情其實是會讓人民的心感到浮躁跟不安的第一個中東戰事開啟了之後經濟部每天就召開應變小組的會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3804.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3825.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
量足價穩是我們的工作目標那不幸的是有一些網路的這個謠言那這個謠言事實上我們第一個時間就發布了這些的訊息那剛剛委員講的我們除了將這些所謂的錯假的訊息或是刻意捏造的這個訊息送給相關單位去清查之外 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3826.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3844.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
我們還及時的來做包括曾經跟說明拿出證據來比如說委員你這個螢幕上右邊所秀的就是我們永安場我們有縮時攝影在這段期間我們都有這個天然氣傳進來這個是一個不是事實的一個狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3845.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3873.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
好 謝謝次長的說明我時間有限不過我這邊有幾個建議我確實看到經濟部第一時間回應消息那因為其實執政黨的委員也非常的關心每一個委員都會受到來自民意的壓力所以我是不是有個建議除了你們剛剛說你們會把這些謠言送交相關單位清查再來你們會做出澄清的資訊還有回應甚至有新聞稿我甚至建議在這段時間你們應該要不定期的召開記者會 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3875.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3884.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
直接透過影像向國人說明直接由第一線的這些部會首長出來告訴國人穩定民心這個部分你覺得有沒有辦法做到 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3884.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3908.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
谢谢文指导我们会持续这个部分希望经济部可以有一些回应再来就是我们来看一下关于这个福岛核灾的部分我想这个事情很多人都清楚了时间以上我就不再赘述不过刚刚柯先生讲的很重要大家都知道核废料要有解然后要有社会共识然后核安也要有答案所以我要说刚刚柯先生 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3909.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3924.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
柯先生委員說法好像是一副就是台電把報告送出來之後呢核安會審查然後馬上核三就可以開機這件事情我認為這個是非常錯假的說法我不會說柯委員在造謠但我會說這是一個誤導的說法 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3926.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3952.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
我可不可以让经济部或者是河安会来说一下到底那个写功课完交出去报告然后河安会你们预计要审多久而且为什么要审这些内容还要请哪些专家学者来审然后最后审完之后往下会发生哪些事情请快速说明一下像让国人心里面非常清楚不要到时候台电报告送出来之后呢社会舆论就会说啊报告已经送出来了为什么河山没有办法重启来好 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3953.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3954.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
好 快速說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3983.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
3998.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
那這部分都是要台電公司提交送到會裡面來審查那行會會依照自己的職責會邀請國內外的學者專家來進行嚴格的把關好 那現在我們就實際問一下我們讓更多人更放心我們來釐清這個相關的訊息 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4000.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4023.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
你刚刚说国内外学者专家那现在台电或是经济部已经让大家知道可能三月底就会送出假设三月底台电真的如期送出何安慧在多久以内可以召开第一次的会议我们有这个固定我们有这个排定的期程吗还是已经有沙盘推演为什么我要这样问因为台电的核三厂现在它基本上是一个世界首例 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4023.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4038.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
也就是說過往在其他國家其他電廠他們可能有在停役前先送出研議的申請書可是核三非常特別他是停役停止運轉之後呢才送出相關的申請書所以我算我認為 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4038.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4058.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
是世界首例所以对河安会你们的角色来说你们摸沙盘推演什么时候要召开第一次委员会然后甚至这个委员会持续看台厅的报告要看多久然后才有可能重启河山不要到时候我们在还没有任何预防的情况之下又被民间说你们为什么看了报告不赶快让河山运转来 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4060.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4082.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
跟委員說明那首先台電公司提出文件之後依照程序我們會進行程序審查然後確認文件是符合法規要求的一些必備的文件然後確認完程序審查之後才會進入實質的審查所以這部分我們會邀請學者專家來一起來審查包括會裡面的同仁確認說整個是不是符合法規 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4083.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4094.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
所以我們一要先進行文件的程序審查確定程序沒有缺漏也就是報告交得夠完整之後我們才實質召開國內專家學者有沒有一個期程的推演 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4097.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4115.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
還是要看他的文件的完備性跟技術的是不是可以達到河安會的要求好我們就來看看好不好但我相信河安會因為會把相關資訊上網公佈對嗎是好那我們就希望我們第一時間國人都可以知道相關的訊息接下來我要看下一張 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4116.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4136.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
接下来就是因为河山再运转的事情其实有非常多人在关心下一个那河山的最终处置就是最终处置场这件事情其实刚刚柯文也提到确实在高阶核废料选址条例都还没有完成立法现在目前为止也没有任何县市任何乡镇愿意承担成为核废料的最终处置场域 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4137.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4161.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
那核二厂的事情之前就是因为干除设施卡关燃料池塞满所以呢被迫停止运提早停止运转我想问一下目前我们看到你们今天交出来的报告里面来下一张你们有说要去开相关的公听会跟说明会我想知道核安会或是经济部或是台电这边有没有任何的规划跟说明如何跟更多地方的相亲说明然后时间是什么 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4163.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4182.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
跟委員說明,如果台電公司在3月份提交災運展計畫的話,那進入實質審查之後,我們就開始會資訊公開,以及在地方,就是河山廠所…等一下,來,時間往回推,你說進入正式審查之後,意思就是前面的那個文件程序審查還不會開公聽會? |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4184.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4188.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
因為要確認所有資訊要符合資訊公開的意思然後進入實質審查之後就會開始一方面做實質審查一方面也會在地方就是河山場所在地的恆春鎮會召開地方說明會 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4207.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4231.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
這個說明會的主責單位會是河岸會加經濟部加台電嗎河岸會會主動辦理那邀請經濟部跟台電出席嗎那我們就希望進入實質審查之後務必要積極進入地方開公聽會跟座談會那因為這個跨縣市的距離很大而且甚至我認為會不會到時候不會只有屏東的鄉親關心如果屏東附近的 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4231.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4247.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
的縣市關心你們有沒有機會跟規劃到其他的縣市去辦相關的說明會我們是參考國外的做法就是在核電廠所在地的區域那有預計要辦幾場嗎在運轉計畫一開始審查包括審結之前也會再辦一次地方說明會 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4254.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4278.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
你沒有回答我的問題我再說一次有沒有機會要辦幾場有沒有規劃目前規劃是兩場兩場就兩場屏東就兩場然後再進入實質的討論之後會再有一場實質審查一場然後完成整個再運轉計畫審查會再辦一場所以就是前後各一那如果當地的鄉親或者是縣市首長要求要再加場怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4279.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4293.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
那我們再衡量看看是整個規劃時程為什麼會這麼說在處理很多地方事務的時候如果只有所謂的一場加一場其實對很多鄉親來說一般的人要去配合公務員的時間其實是有困難的 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4294.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4315.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
所以我才会说我认为地方县市政府如果到时候要求加场真的还是要拜托河安会经济部跟台电必须要释放出最大的诚意跟详情说明而且在我们都还没有看到报告之前其实网络上就可能开始有很多的谣言所以我认为积极的态度去用力的说明是非常重要的事情好吗好谢谢 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4317.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4335.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
好謝謝陳培育委員請官員回座接下來有請羅志強委員有請陳明真主委來請陳明真主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4341.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4357.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
主委好委員好前兩天教育部公布說公費留學的項目新增了合工學門那就我了解之前這個留學項目並沒有合工學門對不對是的所以是今年 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4358.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4384.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
才在三年一次檢討項目輪次當中新增是因為核安會發現核能的人才面臨斷層所以要請教育部來申請新增嘛對不對是的好那我想請問現在核能人才面臨斷層的狀況如何為什麼會有這樣的一個需要因為這個前陣子的非核家庭政策之下 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4385.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4406.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
很多學生不願意選擇核能這個專業第二呢大家也不願意出國學核能這個專業考慮到這個工作的問題我覺得這邊我很肯定我們的主委就是確實是因為非核家園的政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4407.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4432.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
那導致今天很多學生覺得在台灣學習跟河工、河能有關的一些學門實際上發現未來可能前景不夠燦爛前景黯淡所以也導致今天學習的動力下降那我當然肯定河安會願意面對人才問題開始有了措施不過這邊我也要提醒政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4433.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4453.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
就像剛剛主委講的其實為什麼造成這個人才斷層有一個很大的原因就是民進黨執政來的施行的非核政策非核家園的政策那麼他讓我們今天的核能專業就出現了一個明顯的斷層那讓我們曾經花了50年 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4454.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4471.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
培育的合工人才我看到你們的資料說也出現了老化的問題年齡偏高的問題那甚至未來5到10年還會出現退休潮也就在這種合能人才可能產生所謂的一個斷層乃至於空缺的情況之下 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4471.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4491.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
那當然也就對我們的核能的安全在運轉上就出現一些影響所以今天核安會請教育部來去把所謂的新增核工學門來增加公費留學的項目這點我是給予肯定那但是我要請經濟部跟台電你們也上來一下主委留步 兩位也上來來 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4502.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4518.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
請教一下經濟部核定台電對核電廠的現狀評估報告指出核二廠核三廠具備再運轉的可能性並且同步啟動自主安全檢查以及延提再運轉計劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4520.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4542.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
是好那台電一反而提出兩個主要文件一個再運轉計畫跟執行報告那另外就是有老化評估管理耐震安全輻射議題等報告那這是自主安全檢查相關文件那合二廠部分的話台電要配合乾除的作業期程進行自主安全檢查嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4543.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4568.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
那現階段核安會要辦理繼續運轉審查先期準備工作也要邀集台電就核電廠再運轉來進行討論那政府說台電3月底把核3再運轉計畫送到核安會來盡快完成自主安全檢查那我想請教請問核3重啟現在進度如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4570.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4594.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
第一個剛剛委員已經非常清楚的說明我在大會的報告裡面也有提到我們乾市儲存的一個進度那去年我問一下更精確的問那河安會評估審查時程大概需要多久請問主委河安會審查時程大概要多久已經送到河安會了嘛對不對還沒有還沒有沒有嗎還沒有還沒有送那什麼時候送過去 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4600.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4613.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
大概我們下禮拜大概就三月底之前大概就會送三月底前送嘛那三月底前送的話那請問核安會預估的審查時程大概需要多久 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4614.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4635.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
他不只是政院的計畫以後還寫老化評估、地震等等的報告總不能遙遙無期嘛一年要看他的材料準備的狀況怎麼樣我沒有說你審查一定要過啦我說你審查期程大概需要多久一年?兩年? |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4637.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4657.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
三年 這個要看他的報告的相近程度 越相近我們審查時間會越短好 那我就要問 你曾經說這個河岸會台電如果做得夠確實 快速回覆意見那就現場視察順利進行 其倍的話有可能在2028年重啟 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4659.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4675.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
所以2028這個數字,照你現在連一個期程怎麼做你都沒有明確的把握,2028這個數字有可能嗎?是有可能,2028有可能那2028有可能今年是幾年了?2026年了那請問你光審查你要多久時間?你要趕在2028重啟請問審查要多久時間要有結果出來? |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4683.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4709.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
當然要看台電是不是不是 這個是邏輯問題時序邏輯問題嘛你設定2028你今天要能夠重啟的話那你光審查時程請問審查過了以後馬上就可以重啟嗎是不是我們審查過後會給他那個運轉的執照他們可以裝填燃料那我就問運轉執照給了以後請問經濟部請問台電要多久才能夠重啟大概幾星期 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4711.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4731.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
我想我這邊跟委員澄清一下三月底送的再運轉計劃我有一個比擬好了他等於是一個白米選手他已經離開運動場我知道啦我要把他回到白米的起跑點我台電要做什麼我現在提給他的報告大概就這樣大概有三大部分我跟你講那你就不要講2028這個數字給我聽 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4733.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4756.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
不是嗎你知道現在你的百米起跑你跟我講還沒開始跑然後你中間到底會遇到什麼樣的風阻遇到什麼樣的選手遇到什麼樣的場地你通通不知道你就是2028年是這個意思嗎我今天問的時序邏輯你聽不聽得清楚啊我只問說今天審查到什麼時候你今天審查完成之後你需要多少作業時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4758.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4780.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
這你總要給我一個數字吧目前來我跟你們報告因為後面還有一個所謂的安全的自主的安全你還是打不出來所以這部分其實上目前都還在進行中那到底審查的結果可能有些設備我必須要去做一個更換講審查講不出時間審查完多少設備設備的狀況設備的狀況必須要經過檢測檢查然後還有一個 喂喂喂 聽聽聽我跟你講 我講很簡單的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4788.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4813.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
你們不要講一個2028給大家期待嘛今天就很明顯拆穿了嘛2028根本就是空話嘛不是嗎你光審查期限多久我舉個例子到現在就剩兩年嘛我審查期限一年那你有沒有辦法一年之內讓那個核電廠重啟那就是個數學問題啊那如果審查期限是要一年半那你半年有沒有辦法包委員這是安全的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4814.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4830.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
當然啊 我要問你嘛 那你就不要講2028嘛所以今天直接公然打領2028嘛 你根本就沒有 心裡沒有個底2028只是隨便說說而已嘛 就這個結論啊 很簡單啊最後啊 我還是要特別強調啦 王洋不勞為時未完 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4836.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4862.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
講了十年你今天民進黨非核家園政策就是錯誤啊又什麼核廢作為理由那現在很簡單那請問核廢解決了沒啊奇怪了現在就能解決了啊奇怪以前就不能解決說穿了不做的藉口千百個要做決心一個謝謝好謝謝羅志強委員的質詢請官員回座接下來有請陳秀寶委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4869.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4875.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
謝謝主席我們先請台電許副總經理來台電許副總請 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4884.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4903.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
台電預計在三月底要提出核電廠的再運轉計畫剛才我們核安會民政主委也說台電送出來的資料越詳細越完整審查的進度就會越順利本席這邊想請教台電這邊你們是不是會同時進行社會溝通的部分社會溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4908.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4930.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
基本上我还是把刚才的话讲完就是说大家对再运转计划到底在做些什么其实再运转计划它严格来讲它是一个整备的计划整齐的整备用的备用我现在要讲的是说因为我们其实去年的这个核三再运转公投是没有通过的 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4930.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4957.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
表示说社会的共识这一块是需要努力的当然你们送出你们的计划给核安会来审查这是一部分你们的步骤在走但是社会共识这一块既然是我们对于核安的三个大原则我们的核电安全我们核废油解跟社会共识是三大原则我现在要问你说你们在社会共识这一块做了什么努力因为核安的话是核安会在审查 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4957.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4966.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
那合費的話你們要很積極的尋找相關的處置的場域但是社會共識這一塊你們預計用怎樣的步驟去實踐 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
4968.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
4993.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
包委員大概這樣就是台電是一個電力的專業單位所以所有的社會溝通其實尤其在核能部分其實應該站在專業的這個部分那專業部分當然就是說我該做的哪一些工作我認為社會有哪些疑慮比如說對於耐震的這個疑慮那我怎樣去把一些大家的疑慮我進一步用專業的角度 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
4994.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
4999.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
那你告訴我你用怎樣的專業來角度讓民眾對於耐震的這個部分取得信任跟支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5000.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5023.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
讓專家講話讓專業講話什麼時候開始會做這樣子我們已經在做我們已經在做針對社會上關切的議題包括核廢料的議題包括耐震的議題我們也是召集了國外的專家國內的專家我們用平台的方式呢把社會的疑慮呢讓專家來開口來講話那甚至呢我們如果需要進一步的調查或進一步的 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5024.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5045.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
一個一個一個成立一個專業的專業的副總的意思我明白你的意思就是說這樣子一些相關的對於民眾有疑慮的部分不管是在我們地層的部分結構的部分安全的部分我們會請專家用他們專業的角度來讓民眾能夠理解能夠了解能夠支持那你們已經開始在做你們安排怎樣的場次 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5046.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5074.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
呃基本上來講比如說呃有關於耐震的這一塊呢我們現在也是召集了國內的一些學者專家這樣好了時間不多這樣子許副總我拜託你們把你剛才你所說的你們要做的關於各種安全的一些相關的這些跟民眾必須要有溝通的必須要有共識取得的這些你們所安排的場次你們所安排的這些你都做一份資料給我們所有教文委員會的委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5075.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5088.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
沒問題就是你們要如何取得社會共識這一塊你們如何推進如何做如何落實好嗎這一塊請你們就是做一份詳細的資料給我們提供資料給我們各位委員那我現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5090.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5112.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
這邊我們這個部分請你提供給我資料之後我們再來做討論那接下來呢要跟你討論是說這個用電的安全竹克在前天有傳出這個超高壓變電所發生爆炸的事故造成很嚴重的公安事件那火勢也很大一直到晚上才完全撲滅台電現在有先釐清說事故發生的主因嗎請問專總 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5117.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5141.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
謝謝好 跟委員報告那整個事故發生阻音我們現在還在釐清當中因為整個火場目前檢察官預令不得進入好那我們是在現場我們有這個我們的故障記錄器都還在裡面我們還沒辦法取得那這個部分我們會等到檢察官放行之後我們會盡快的是因為還沒有辦法進到火場裡面去做主要的調查因為新聞報導有說這項工程是針對電壓穩定設備來做進行這個測試 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5146.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5175.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
那所謂測試應該就不是一個如果是平常的安全檢查或安全測試應該就不會造成有這樣子重大的一個事故發生所以到底什麼地方出問題你們也說目前這裡面的設備是最先進的氣體絕緣開關設備所以發生這樣的事故你們除了說先自己做內部的這些你們有沒有做相關的這個施工安全指引的這個了解說說他有沒有照照照這個SOP在進行的 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5176.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5203.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
好 各位我們報告就是說這個本身設備我們在因為是屬於真的是測試階段但是它前面的一些單元測試都已經完成都沒有問題那這一次主要是要從變電所那邊加壓過來做系統的一個測試但是我們在測試的階段我們預先都已經做了封控的一個演練所以說我們把整個防護的快速的一個保護都有三段式還有我們把 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5203.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5225.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
用戶的這個部分跟我們測試的部分是分開所以說才會事情發生之後只有大概零點一秒我們整個故障就排除掉也沒有造成停電因照您現在回答是說該做的安全的防護的措施其實都有做那但是因為現在你們沒有辦法今天到現場實際的去調查原因所以現在問你你也沒有辦法回答說到底是因為什麼樣而造成這樣的事故 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5226.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5255.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
但是我會希望說這是一個很重大的教訓這個經驗一定要記得就是說我們用品安全其實不只是針對用戶端那其實我們在相關的人員的安全這邊也要落實所以我希望說你們要督促並且很嚴格的落實檢修人員的這個安全指引的規範他們在做相關的這些檢修的時候這些職安訓練我們都要非常的注重包括這些承包商我們也要注意說他們是不是有做過完整的這些職安的訓練 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5256.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5276.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
好那這個部分呢等你們確定的這個起火這個爆炸這個原因之後呢也希望你把相關的資料能夠給我辦公室我們再來討論說相關人員這個安全維護到底在哪裡是有落差的好謝謝那許副總請回喔接下來我要請經濟部賴次長跟中油的黃副總 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5285.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5310.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
接下來本席要關心的是民生的問題針對目前統裝瓦斯價格很溫暖中部的民眾尤其是在我的選區彰化縣的部分統裝瓦斯因為是台塑公司主要供應那統裝瓦斯去年的價格到現在已經漲了三次20公斤的統裝瓦斯漲了將近要100塊那加上我們彰化縣其實是美食小吃遐而知名的我們是美食重鎮 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5310.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5321.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
那小吃店的成本呢他他們很大的一個部分在這個瓦斯上面他一周至少有三桶以上的這20公斤的瓦斯所以民眾跟店家對這個瓦斯漲價這個部分呢都覺得說為什麼不是應該 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5326.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5326.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5351.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5366.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
桶裝瓦斯也就是液化石油氣基本上我們進口的這個貨量都沒有來自於荷姆斯海峽所影響的地區所以我們認為說在這個部分其實貨源跟貨量第一個是充足的 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5367.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5385.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
那第二點是你剛剛委員所提到的彰化這個地方的桶裝瓦斯事實上供應商之間因為桶裝瓦斯它是一個自由競爭的一個市場包括台塑跟中油對 所以說是市場機制的關係你們有沒有辦法說去做很大的干預 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5385.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5401.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
我們農運署都有定期的去跟包括石化業者來傳達說政府希望是穩定物價的一個概念我們也密切的注意到它產銷之間的一個變化 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5403.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5429.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
若是有這些不當的這個存機的這個問題或是調度不應的這個問題我們在應變會議裡面都有掌握這邊本席想建議我們經濟部跟中油要我們跟台塑公司可以再加強溝通一下這個關於漲價的部分我們是不是說在現在真的萬物起漲我們很多原物料都漲價了這個情況之下在瓦斯這一塊是不是可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5431.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5452.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
可以不要再漲那中油公司這邊是不是也來評估我們來加強供應給彰化地區的這個可行性因為台塑公司它是私人的企業我們沒有辦法在價格上就是介入太多但是如果由中油來提供一個比較穩定的一個價格這樣子的瓦斯來提供給彰化的民眾你們這個可行性你們可以評估一下嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5453.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5468.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
我們的意見我們會帶回去研究不過基本上它的供銷它都有一定的供應鏈還有包括它的契約關係這我們一併來進行評估好謝謝那次長請回我現在再請一下我們那個河岸會的陳主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5475.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5496.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
主委好本期在這邊有一些整理了一些核安會陸續針對SMR這個研發所推動的研究計畫那我們核安會呢從112年就開始進行SMR的相關的前期的資訊及管制法的這個法規的彙整那從114年就開始正式啟動SMR的這個先期研究包含爐心動態結構 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5499.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5517.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
這個隔證系統評估還有現在你們也正在爭取116到119年這個長期的SMR研發計畫總經費大概需要10億我想請教主委這個研究經費我們有沒有確定爭取成功了這個請高院長回答一下好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5518.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5528.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
報告委員這個爭取中明年開始4年的LMR、MMR計畫現在初步國科會科技辦公室核准只有一半4.8億 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5530.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5550.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
那是不是有機會爭取到我們原先的目標10億可能還需要再努力所以他是先核一半是那我們也可以開始起步了即便說沒有爭取到完整的10億的經費我們有一半的經費就先起步今年已經有一億的軍會可以開始做一些先行的研究明年是四年一加四年總共五年期的計畫好 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5550.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5576.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
本席為什麼很關心這個計畫呢因為這個計畫裡面有包含高放射性廢棄物的處理技術也就是說我們高階核廢料的處理這個技術可望在進步那如果說我們整個的計畫有順利的爭取到我們開始來進入這個整個的研究的這個期程開始進入之後呢是不是就是我們可以很快的來協助到我們核電廠來處理這些高階核廢料 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5579.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5590.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
SMR新的技術有三種反應器第一種是加速器驅動的次靈界反應器叫ADS |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5592.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5612.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
這個因為還在發展中大概十年內可以發展完成如果這個可以發展完成我們國內大概五千噸的高階核廢棄物預計可以四十二年可以處理完畢不是百分之百就是百分之九十五從數萬年以上可以降到這幾百年的高階核廢棄物但是這個技術還等待商業運轉 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5613.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5627.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
第二種技術是熔岩式的反應器第三種是鈉能式的快支撐這三種SMR都可以減少至少七成以上的高階核廢棄物說明完畢謝謝您的說明所以其實剛才我有強調過為什麼我非常關心這個計畫是說我們希望有這樣的計畫我們可以爭取到之後我們趕快去研發這樣的技術來協助核電廠來處理這些高階的核廢料如果說核廢有解 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5641.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5656.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
那我們有社會共識加上河安這個部分我們送出來計畫審核是沒有問題的那我們核電廠運轉才能得到民眾的支持也才能得到民眾的信任所以這個部分我希望說河安會我們相關的研發要加緊腳步請你們更積極好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5660.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5687.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
事实上过去多年来的核废料的处理技术上也有很大的进步还在继续进步之中我希望以后来有机会把高级核废料转换成中低级核废料这整个问题就会容易解决的很多好 谢谢主委 谢谢好 谢谢陈修宝委员的质询请官员回座接下来有请郭玉琴委员 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5694.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5700.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
好 谢谢主席首先先请这个经济部次长来 请蓝次长 请 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5707.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5733.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
市長早安我想這個中東的戰事大家都很關心全球都很關心但是對我們台灣的一個影響大家更擔心的是因為我們的能源有96%其實是仰賴這個進口那這個中東的戰事如果持續的延續那麼包含很多的這個費用可能就會往上增加甚至我們的這個所有的天然氣的安全的存量那這個天數是不是也有可能會急劇的縮短 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5734.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5753.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
那這個部分是不是也請這個經濟部次長來說明一下就是我們針對這樣子的一個國際形勢的一個狀況我們有沒有相對應的一個因應的措施我們從2月28號開始我們就來盤點我們3月份的需求短期裡面受到影響可是我們快我們就把這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5754.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5782.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
所謂的影響的貨氣都掉足了在這邊跟委員說明量足價穩是我們工作的目標而我們現階段工作的目標因為戰事的一個變遷是很大所以我們必須要有一個短中長期的這些因應包括我們對未來到6月之間相關的這個貨氣的排成我們都有掌握在這邊跟主委委員說明比如說3月4月當然我們現在都已經掉足了 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5782.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5803.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
5月份的部分可能包括現貨還有包括受到荷姆斯海峽原本排成的這個船次我們大概盤點出來都有14艘那我們現在現行大概調到10艘左右那我們的安全存量沒有降低我們還是增加的好 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5804.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5824.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
那我想這個部分也在就是今天的這個質詢當中跟這個全國的這個大家來說明我想這個都是大家非常關心的一個重點好那接下來其實想請教這個河安會跟台電好請河安會台電上質詢台好 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5825.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5841.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
主委好我想我們一直在強調用電的部分我想福島的核災才剛屆滿15週年其實每一個能源的選擇其實都攸關我們這個世代跟下一個世代的安全跟責任我想根據2025年的統計其實在我們再生能源的發電佔比 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5847.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5874.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
已經有高達了12.7%那其實呢這也相對的來展現說代表這個再生能源其實已經逐步的變成所謂的我們的這個台灣電力非常重要的一個支柱了那其實在這個所有的大家在討論的一個重點其實安全我們一直不斷的在強調沒有安全其實就沒有發電啦安全第一這個大家毋庸置疑第二我們的核廢料何去何從 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5875.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5903.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
這個也是非常重要的重中之重再來第三高度的社會共識我想沒有這三個基本的原則跟準則其他真的都不用談了那但是呢其實剛剛就是蠻遺憾的一直聽到這個在野黨的委員不斷的在詢問所謂的騎乘啊好像這個很急啊三月底呢送交這個核安會來審查好像馬上就給要發執照然後馬上就要重啟馬上就要開始研議了那我想這是不對的 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5903.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5922.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
因為其實在透過我知道在我們的台電是2月初我們就已經跟這個西屋公司已經簽訂了一個合約了那展開這個自主的安全的一個檢查那依舊這個整個所有的設備的老舊的一個狀況或者是其他的包含一些驗證的一些項目這些都應該要非常謹慎非常 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5923.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5940.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
一步一步慢慢的來做慢慢而且要非常仔細安全的來做所以其實如果河山在講說要不要研議啊要不要再工作幾年啊如果在安全的標準上面打折扣那我想這些其實都是空談 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5941.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
5964.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
這個對我來講好但是呢我們當然也會幫大家來示意一下因為現在大家都在擔心說我們的電會不會不夠那麼核三呢其實已經做了這樣子的一個等於說我們有一些進程了就從2月3號跟西屋簽約然後再來就是接著下來我們的進度的一個快慢還有跟我們的這個整個所有的核電的安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
5964.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
5983.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
用電安全的這個所有無虞的一個狀況之下那我想請教的是這個河山廠的跟這個西屋簽約這西屋公司在這一次整個所有的評估安全檢查的這個自主檢查的這個安全的評估西屋扮演的是什麼樣的一個角色 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
5983.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
5998.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
只是技術上的諮詢嗎還是說他會派遣所謂的技術的專家來到台灣來做所謂的核心設備包含所謂的這個反應爐的壓力槽或者是實體碳上的一個設備的一個疲勞的分析習武扮演的是什麼樣重要角色請教 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
5999.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6018.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
包委員簡單講就是你後面講的這一塊西屋它不是只做專業的諮詢的服務另外其實上它最重要的工作在做什麼做就是反映如它自衛財產權所屬的這一塊包括反映如的本體包括反映如內部的組件包括一些安全周邊的安全系統的檢測 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6019.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6047.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
它只要是評估說它的老化的狀態進行它的疲勞分析來評估說這些設備也就簡單講就是所謂的實現老化它未來如果可以運轉還可以運轉幾年大概最重要是做這個第二個大概就是做老化的一個分析包括一些安全系統它目前來講在世界上 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6048.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6066.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
到底它的使用年限根據河山廠過去40年的運轉的一個狀態包括它整個站態包括功率運轉的狀態來評估這些設備我到底還能夠可以再運轉幾年大概西屋最主要的工作是做這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6066.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6085.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
好那像這樣子的一個整個他們在進行的這個工作的進程就是到時候是不是可以公開的提供給所有想要關心的人沒問題因為所有的所有的自主安全檢查報告最後要送核安慰審查那這樣送核安慰審查其實相關的資訊包括他的報告呢全部都會上網公開 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6086.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6114.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
好那接下來其實剛剛其實在前面幾位在質詢當中其實我有聽到台電這邊有講到比方說這個進來我們這個比較頻繁的一些地殼的變動那包含就是我們的耐震度的部分那針對所謂的這個耐震係數現在的耐震係數的整個所有的標準是不是足以因應最新的地質調查研究報告當中的一些潛在的威脅要不要來做調整這個部分是這樣子如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6116.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6135.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
核三厂原始的耐震的设计是0.4GG是重力加速度那我们在2021年的时候2021年出来因为我们重新进行所谓的地质的危害的一个调查那目前来讲呢正在进行它所谓的 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6137.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6166.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
根據這個調查的結果基率式的調查結果進行所謂的危害度的這個分析是那目前相關的危害度分析呢同行審查已經做完了那我們目前來講針對同行審查的結果呢要進行相關的一些包括耐震的補強是還有一些它的風險值的計算那相關風險的這個計算的這些到未來我們都會公開好全部都會公開所謂的未來大概是多久這個時程大概是多久 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6166.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6187.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
因為基本上還要送核安會審查核安會審查完以後呢透過核安會的一個資訊透明的部分來公開我想核安會扮演了非常重要的一個角色然後再來就是很多人想要問的到底我們的核廢料現在選址的地方的進度到底如何現在有進度嗎核廢料選址處置 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6189.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6216.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
有關於核廢料的處置第一個包括我們室外的乾除跟室內乾除的作業台電公司都依照目前的排程在做比如說以核二廠為例的話它的再運轉計畫大概這個年底就可以獲得審照就可以獲得審照然後後面逐步的就把燃料池裡面的這些反應爐裡面的燃料棒把它移出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6217.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6239.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
至於說高階的這個部分我們現在成立了專案辦公室我剛也跟委員有說明我們不但是收集現在核能使用國家他們現在的法規法制的作業的情況之外那我們也會去做一個意見的收集公民社會意見的收集 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6239.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6259.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
好我想這個是真的需要時間尤其是剛剛講到的第三點就是高度的社會共識最後我再佔用一點點時間其實就是兩天前在新竹科學園區所發生的這個意外那我想其實這個簡單的一個問題我必須說像這一類的高風險的一個能源的一個設施尤其是在測試過程當中它是在測試過程 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6260.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6277.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
那測試過程相對來講其實是相對比較不穩定的那我們所知道的其實他是外包的人員那在外包的會不會我們其實有一套我們自己本身的一個標準因為剛剛其實林勇回答這個秀寶委員的問題我們就不再重複我們有這樣子的一個分析的標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6277.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6294.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
但問題是到了所謂的外包人員其實這個中間是不是會有所謂的斷層我們要不要建立一套是類似像我們剛剛講的比較嚴謹的一個牽管的機制不然這樣子的一個意外發生其實造成了一人死亡其實是讓我們大家聽到是相當遺憾的一件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6297.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6322.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
謝偉 針對現場的職安的這一部分其實我們Follow職安法我們有一整套很嚴謹的一個標準那現場我們也有委外監照那我們這個台電方面也都會到現場做不定期的一個監督查核都不是只上座椅而是要求一定要落實那針對當天的這個測試的程序因為還沒有移交給台電還是承覽商這邊統包商負責但是我們都有派專業的技術人員在現場監督 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6324.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6341.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
因為最後就是引起這件意外的一個結果目前是還在調查當中事故本身的原因還要等這個檢察官能夠放行我們到火場要一併的要去做一個檢視為什麼說這個問題其實很嚴重那這個問題也是大家都很關心的因為大家只會問 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6343.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6358.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
為什麼會爆炸然後再來誰要負責我想這個兩大的問題我們提供給台電我們也去思考一下怎麼樣因應就是在整個所有的測試的安全的過程我們是安全無虞保障人民的安全好 謝謝主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6362.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6387.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
好謝謝郭益勤委員請官員回座那接下來呢有請葉元之委員那這邊補充報告等一下在林怡瑾委員詢答完畢之後休息五分鐘葉元之委員請請經濟部還有台電好經濟部台電機關代表請上質詢台謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6394.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6408.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
市長我想說中東戰事延續這樣子這麼多天而且看不出來到底什麼時候會結束所以大家都非常關心就是物價我先來問一下油價的問題因為一開始這個中東戰事剛發生的時候當時本來中油說要漲三塊錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6413.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6442.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
一開始是這樣講的喔結果後來呢又說中油吸收六成只漲了1.5元那為什麼會出現這樣的轉換怎麼感覺這樣子變來變去會讓大家覺得政府到底有沒有做好準備中油的油價都是在週末正式發布新聞報來公佈這第一個第二個的話是中東戰事起的時候事實上量足價穩是一直我們的工作的目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6443.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6464.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
那世界各國 世界各國的這個油價波動都非常我是說等一下我不是說不應該吸收我的問題是說為什麼一開始3元後來變1.5元就政府釋放出訊息啦我覺得要有一開始要規劃不是這樣子一直朝新立改大家也會覺得很怪好那再來 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6465.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6480.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
3月16號的時候因為那時候中油還是一樣平衡物價的關係啦所以吸收了9.5元那兩週就吸收了十幾塊錢那現在大家想要問想要了解的是第一個那中油這樣兩週到底虧損了多少第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6481.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6495.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
中油到底準備了多少錢要來評議這個物價因為它除了是在銷售這部分它有吸收之外其實它去國際上搶氣 搶天然氣也是有付出比較高的成本所以目前中油這邊的規劃是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6497.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6515.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
第一個工作人員目標先把我們需要的貨氣把它備足那第二個部分的話因為調足這些的貨氣確實是需要金額的那中油公司不管是從包括限金流量的控制包括投資性資產的一個問題請回答問題好不好請回答問題那到底準備了多少那還可以撐多久 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6517.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6546.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
因為他已經兩週就已經吸收了光是賣油品就吸收了十幾塊了嘛那另外就是去國際上面搶天然氣成本也增加但是3月份4月份都已經掉足了這個貨氣我不是說掉足貨氣市長你來備詢可不可以聽清楚問題啊老是答非所問我不是說質疑你們有沒有備足貨品我是在問說吸收這個價錢你到底準備多少錢那有沒有準備虧損多久那後面的因應之道是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6547.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6571.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
是針對價錢的部分不是針對到底你有沒有補足貨源好不好 因為我們時間都有限不要一直答非所問第一個我有錢我才能買得到貨氣吧那這個是跟委員說明的我有錢我才能買得到你知道你自己在講什麼嗎你要不要先重複一下我的問題啊我的問題是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6573.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6583.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
你的問題是說中油到底可以撐多久他現在一直虧損嘛他現在兩週到底虧損了多少現在在整體的這個價格上面 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6586.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6604.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
差不多33億左右兩週待虧損33億那接下來還撐得下去嗎如果中東戰事一直延續下去而且油價一定是越來越高嘛然後另外你還要去就是現貨市場搶天然氣那有沒有繼續要維持下去維持這樣子動漲油價有沒有嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6605.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6624.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
我們協助他做資金的這個籌印之外包括他的投資的計畫這個部分經濟部也投資計畫我誰在跟你講投資計畫不要一直答非所問好不好這是大家關心的議題嘛一直答非所問我剛剛都好生好氣跟你講話為什麼你要這樣子啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6624.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6641.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
沒有 因為委員那中友公司的話我剛剛講的投資計畫當然平益物價很重要嘛我們也都支持你平益物價但是大家也很怕很擔心說會不會有沒有做好準備嘛這個當然有啊有 所以就是之後都是會一直動長 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6642.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6659.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
阿之後我們在中東戰事的期間都會中漲在亞營最低價之下我們政府還吸收了百分之六十剛剛我就講了我一開始的問題我就講到這件事情我是問你之後嘛是不是還會一直動漲下去 憑義務價是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6660.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6679.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
我們要密切注意戰事的一個變化所以不一定所以不一定這個油價變動太快了反正就是說你現在吸收了你現在吸收了33億但接下來你會看狀況會看狀況但是你會做好準備對會盡量不要讓物價上漲對吧我們盡量控制在物價上漲 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6680.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6702.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
另外就是台電部分台電因為去年已經轉虧為盈了但是中油持續虧損台電有一個部分轉虧為盈是我們有看到資料好像中油賣給台電就是發電用用油實際上它的價格有稍微往下那如果說中油現在自己也都開始虧損了那是不是還是會用過去的方式在支持台電會嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6704.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6727.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
其實中油主要賣給台電的是發電的用氣,不是用油一樣嘛,用氣啦,對,用氣那這個天然氣的這個,它都有一個公式,每個月會公告那每個月公告的這個期程就會依照日本、韓國所謂的我們JKM的一個指標來去訂定這個公式那因為現在國際上面,我現在的問題就是國際上面天然氣的價格也變高嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6728.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6753.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
所以中油如果把天然氣賣給台電那台電的成本也變高嘛所以那電價會不會上漲那月底的時候要開電價審議委員會嘛那這個部分大概的方向是怎樣這個部分我們在工作會議裡面會有進行敏感性的分析那我們也是會跟相關的委員陳述我們現在政府對於穩定物價的一個工作的重點的一個努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6755.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6773.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
好 再來喔現在剛剛大家討論到的河山廠到底要不要研議啊台電要送那個再運轉計畫其實為什麼會這樣 很簡單嘛就是大家很擔心說用電會不會韌性不夠嘛台灣會不會缺電嘛關鍵應該是這件事情啦那昨天也有外媒蓬勃報導啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6774.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6792.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
他說雖然台積電和政府官員一再保證局勢穩定可是台灣發電最大的隱患就是台灣對於液態天然氣異常的高度依賴這是彭博講的你怎麼能說外媒是中共同路人呢然後呢如果說電力中斷就會影響台積電 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6794.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6823.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
我覺得剛剛我也聽到民黨的委員剛剛好像是郭玉琴吧我覺得還在那邊帶風箱要抹黑啊說前面的國民黨的委員一直在問提出再運轉計畫到底什麼時候河岸會可以核定就是好像不顧河岸要趕快讓它通過什麼河岸很重要啊國民黨都不重視河岸沒有人不重視河岸從頭到尾沒有人不重視河岸只是在確保河岸OK的情況之下台電怎麼樣可以讓河山繼續運轉 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6824.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6853.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
因為補足電力假設不夠的話它有一個比較穩定的發電基礎是這樣那當時我記得我們之前在也是在教育文化委員會修核安法其實核安法我相信那個主管機關核安會主委可以慢慢擬起到台上來主委很清楚嘛核安會核管法的修法只是讓核電廠研議法規鬆綁因為以前規定如果核電廠要研議必須要在停役之前就提出申請 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6854.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6881.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
那來不及了嘛所以我們把法規鬆綁讓他庭議之後也可以提出申請只是這樣而已但至於說要不要申請要不要合可那當然是政府自己可以決定啊台電可以決定要不要提債運轉計畫啊河安會可以根據河安來判定他有沒有符合河安的需求然後來決定要或不要這個都是政府可以決定的啊怎麼會好像變成在野黨不顧河安硬要什麼河山廠研議怎麼會這樣亂講呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6882.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6911.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
然後現在台電已經提出再運轉計畫了嘛這個台電請問一下你們現在已經提出再運轉計畫對吧還沒有三月底準備提出嘛有兩項嘛一個是營運計畫嘛能不能再營運第二個是老化分析就是河岸的部分嘛安全的部分老化分析還沒有現在目前提出的是再運轉你們到時候一定會提這兩個嘛對吧就是就算要再運轉也會提這兩個嘛對 檢測完以後那代表說台電自己也想要河山研議啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6912.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6927.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
如果台電沒有要核酸研議的話你提這兩幹嘛應該是這樣講就是說在暈轉計畫它實際上是一個整備計畫實際上是有三個部分一個是組織人力的狀態第二個大概設備的維護的狀態第三個大概就是以前已經是一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
6928.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
6955.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
營運的文件我怎樣去把它帶回來文件準備了但是因為你們做這個動作然後接下來河岸會又要審查可見政府現在是朝向看看河山廠能不能演繹的方向去做嘛應該這樣講否則你就不用做這個事情了啊應該是這樣講對不對我台電公司我必須要知道我現在對嘛我現在這個反應爐我跟你講如果說按照之前非核家園的立場的話你這個事情你都不用做嘛你現在做這件事情就是想說欸看看 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
6956.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
6981.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
會不會在核安OK的情況之下又可以營運又不會影響安全我們核三有沒有演繹的機會嘛你現在就在做這個事情嘛可是你知道嗎你們台電做這個動作民進黨的立委可能會罵你們喔因為我們那時候在修核管法的時候那個時候好像有一個什麼張雅玲委員啊就說藍白修核管法就是為中國攻台開後門我不太懂核電廠演繹到底跟中國攻台什麼關係啊范雲講說核電重啟有國安風險 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
6986.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7009.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
結果接下來很可能台電都會變成中共同路人所以我在這邊建議你看連執政黨的立法委員都認為核三或甚至之後核二如果把核廢的乾除的問題處理好之後他們都認為說這個核安問題很可怕 中共同路人所以台電跟核安會要做一件事情就是你們要加強跟社會的溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7011.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7025.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
我看到政府一直講核電研議或之後的新式核能有三個條件嘛前提下才會重啟或者是使用新式核能三條第一個是核安確保第二個就是處理核廢料的問題第三就是社會共識 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7026.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7042.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
那社會怎麼樣有共識社會共識就是你要告訴大家比如到時候核安會你看完台電的報告之後你看完核安沒問題你就要大肆宣導核安沒問題大家放心社會才有共識嘛所以第三個前提是伴隨著第一跟第二嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7043.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7063.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
還有大家對之前一直恐核廢料核廢料每次以前只要討論到就事論事核電的議題就會有人在那邊講那些情緒性的語言什麼核廢料放你家核廢料放你家所以台電你現在如果你要提那個再運轉計畫我相信有很多像之前的人就會來攻擊你要不然核廢料放你家核廢料放台電總之你家 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7064.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7091.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
這種無法就事論事的問題那你們就要去跟大家講核廢現在要怎麼處理現在是核二核三也有乾式儲存槽有一些濕式水池裡面的人要幫他移出來放乾式儲存槽乾式儲存槽放在裡面安不安全還有就是要確保那乾式儲存槽或室外的室內的你是要把核廢料放在那邊一輩子嗎還是實際上台電現在也要去找一個終極儲存廠運用現代科技或是用什麼方法 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7092.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7119.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
可以讓核廢料做最有效的處理這個都是大家要加強社會溝通的才會有社會共識啦所以其實我個人是樂見政府髮夾彎啦就是說之前是一直把核講到好像你只要主張核電你就中共同路人然後就怎麼樣怎麼樣但至少你們願意提出再運轉計畫這是往好的方向但是還是很多人會用那種負面的東西來做溝通那你們台電 核安會有沒有加強社會溝通有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7121.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7142.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
其實針對核廢料處理剛才委員講那些東西委員都有清楚抓到實際的台電目前處理的狀況表示台電目前的資訊有關於乾式儲存或是核廢料處理的這一塊其實資訊實際上都是不停的在揭露我希望能夠再加強好不好再加強好不好那核安會呢核安會 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7144.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7164.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
对于这申请我们会有好几次说明会在地跟在地的居民做说明会还有所有资料我们都会上网他们在运转计划台电在运转计划我们会把上网然后我们审查意见也会上网台电回复也会上网民众也可以在网路上 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7165.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7192.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
提出意見好 那請問一下主委河山如果最後經過審查都願意再運轉的話那會不會為中國像民進黨立委講的這就是為中國攻台開後門你覺得會不會台電你覺得會嗎你是幫中國攻台開後門嗎我是做技術專業的國安的議題不是我關切的那你覺得會不會有攻台後門你不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7194.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7218.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
所以你覺得那個立委講的有道理我們只管核能安全我們只管核能安全核安全的嘛 管核安全的確定核能安全我們對 這個要問國安會啦國安會來評估一下 到底核三嚴一所以以後如果要再運轉的話可能 召委要請國安會一起來大家才能夠做更完整的討論我覺得 如果你們認為沒問題加強社會溝通才會有社會共識 好不好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7219.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7247.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
好 谢谢叶元志委员的质询请官员回座接下来有请林一锦委员那等一下林一锦委员询答之后我们休息五分钟谢主席有请何安慧陈主委经济部赖次长台电许副总国员会高院长 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7249.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7273.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
請機關代表上質詢台 謝謝先請教陳主委前一次本席在核安會業務報告的質詢當中有向主委請教就有關於這個核子反應器設施運轉執照申請審核辦法這個當中這個執照換照申請書所檢附文件的項目那但是讓本席持續的不解的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7275.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7291.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
前一回的辦法的修正只有增加輻射相關議題的查核評估報告以及什麼耐震安全評估的說明那對比起民間團體許多嚴格的換照條件的要求那修法後的 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7292.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7319.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
這幾點是否能夠確保核安這個本席是存疑的那上次的詢答我有問及說我們有考量國安威脅或複合式的災害這些因素就是有沒有來考慮到這些因素然後到換照的申請書內那主委說都會考量那可是在辦法中看起來就沒有明文你看我的PowerPoint我想請教主委的是這是怎麼一回事 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7321.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7347.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
難道國安的威脅或複合式的災害這些考量因子是可有可無嗎難道不是換照考量的必要條件嗎 主委這點請高主任跟委員說明跟委員說明那運轉執照申請省的辦法的一些修正我們是參考國際的做法主要是針對機組的設備進行安全評估那這個部分是跟國外一樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7348.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7366.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
那委員所提到的一些國安議題啊或者是一些緊急應變這種東西因為已經有既有的法規在管制那我們在審查辦審查的導致已經有規範了所以台電公司要依照審查導致去提出他們的因應作為出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7367.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7385.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
所以你們沒有把這個辦法放進去裡面基本上是認為有其他的規範在規範這幾個我剛提的這些因素是沒錯不是沒有忽視沒有都有納入評估都有因應的做法出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7385.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7405.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
那另外有關於核子事故發生時民眾的這個防護的疏散這個在核子事故緊急應變法他訂定區域民眾的防護的應變計畫有規劃設置這個民眾的這個集結點避難收容的場所那防護站以及登記這個邊管處所等緊急的應變場所 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7409.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7437.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
那審計部在113年的總決算的審核報告中他有指出說河岸會規劃的這個部分核子事故緊急應變場所竟然位於這個災害淺市區那經過統計這個民眾集結位於這個災害淺市區的共計有25處那避難收容處所有的這個3處都位於土壤異化高淺市區 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7438.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7462.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
那防務站還有這個登記這個邊管處所也各有三處都是災害潛勢區那這樣的情況其實對民眾的生命安全已經造成一定的潛在風險那我想為了何止事故風險發生時那民眾的生命安全不會受到其他因素的影響所以本席要建請我們核安會要如實的協調地方政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7463.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7484.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
那依據最新的這個災害顯示的情形那來進速來審視這個檢討應變場所的這個妥適性同時也要規劃這個原備地點跟措施所以我想請教主委的是你有掌握審計部在113年提出的這項問題嗎那你們有要重新檢討嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7489.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7514.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
報告委員 針對委員所詢問的這個地方的這個有災害前世的這些應變場所其實目前各地方政府已經在他的核子事故民眾防護的一個應變計畫中就是有進行了相關的一個考量那也就是應變場所裡面他們會有一些備援的場所那我們也藉由像年度的核安演習或是平時的一些疏散演練去做一個就是檢視 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7515.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7533.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
然後去檢視相關一個場所包括去年在河山場做的河山場跟屏東縣做的那個河岸演習也都有把備援的場所納進去做一個演練以上好那所以重新盤點過後的這個避難地點可不可以給我一份報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7535.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7548.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
目前報告中都有 可以再提供給委員既然今天經濟部跟台電都在場我是不是也請賴次長跟許副總能跟本席說明一下就是說高放選址條例 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7550.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7571.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
現在內部討論到什麼柑桑那本席要再強調一次就不管核電廠有沒有運作運作多久或者它是否有重啟用過的這個高放射性的廢棄物就是產生了那就必須要被妥善處理那我們要務實的去面對已經產生的這些放射性的廢棄物才能對我們的後代子孫負責 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7573.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7588.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
所以我們看到民間團體他已經提出了民間版的草案那請教何安惠還有經濟部跟台電政府的規劃到底什麼時候會有這個雛形相關的這樣的法案草案有什麼雛形可以供外界來檢視先請教經濟部好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7591.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7616.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
好謝謝委員首先跟委員說明過去的所謂的核電廠我們在營運的期間其實都跟世界同軌在做包括低放或是說燃料棒高放的這些儲存的一些做法那現在包括甘氏的儲存草也相對的在建立之中這第一個第二個委員你剛剛所詢問到這個條例的問題去年4月已經成立一個專案辦公室 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7617.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7644.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
是那這請專家來去研究說世界使用核能的先進國家他們的立法的規定大概是嚴格是怎麼樣他們在立法過程社會關心什麼問題那現在在做條例的研擬之中那當然也我們會廣泛的在收集社會各界的意見好那大概是我們現在目前今年工作的所以有時間表嗎這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7646.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7661.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
這個我們現在沒有辦法跟你說出一個比較明確的所謂的time table因為這個做得好比做得快可能還是要更重要一點好 那請何安惠就是對於這個高放選址條例 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7665.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7677.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
報告委員 那個行為是安全管制機關那我們會以安全管制機關角度來提供經濟部在立法過程中所需要的專業意見好 那台電呢 台電 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7682.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7699.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
這一塊來講我們大概跟經濟部會共同合作那目前來講選址條例那一塊民間版沒有做委員會那已經提出來了那我目前來講其實這個條例我們也參照包括日本包括德國的條例在做那也跟民間的一些一些團團我們密切在溝通一些意見看這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7703.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7730.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
OK 好那最後我想核電是否能運轉終究涉及我們的能源轉型的進程我們很清楚國園園一直都有在進行原子能這個關鍵技術的研究以及它發展這個能源及核後端的技術然後也有很積極的在發展綠能科技的研究譬如我們本土化的一些智慧配電的網路等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7730.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7748.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
好 所以我要請教國務院院士那最近的研究有什麼新的突破嗎那對於我國的這個能源韌性有什麼極大的注意的研究成果嗎高院長是 報告委員我們五年前跟行政院申請的70MV新型的反應器中型反應器 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7749.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7769.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
建置計畫今年可以完成建置,明年就可以開始測試運轉可以提供像我們陀201新戰顯靈劑現在我們舊的那一台30mm是提供大概40%的供應量將來能夠提升到七成到八成那因為它是比較高的能量所以除了顯靈劑以外也可以做診斷醫療 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7770.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7795.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
那我们去年年底就是肝功能的显影剂也获得世界的百大在全球的世界百大的唯一的合一药物数十年来第一个拿到研发创新的百大那同时我们还要开发诸多的像摄氏线奶Pisen这个新的药物可能是现在诺华公司其他公司在市面上药物的那个 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7796.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7807.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
收費大概將來可達到一半所以你現在跟我報告的都是有關於這個新的核醫藥物對醫療的部分藥物韌性我們配合國家韌性計畫240億我們有28億規劃4年內28億要發展開發9種藥物韌性的計畫還有因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7817.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7838.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
因變這個變化的時代可能有核子意外事故對我現在是在請教您能源韌性的部分能源我們開發三種解毒劑就是比方說普魯斯蘭在發生核電廠事故的時候這個駝跟色這兩種可以做解毒劑體內解毒劑另外 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7839.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7856.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
在布如果有發生一些髒彈或者是核子不通靈布彈的時候這個第二種合一藥物也可以做解毒劑那第三種就是金屬高金屬的這個放射性的合種藥物我們會開發三種合一藥物的解毒劑這叫藥物韌性的計畫希望我們能夠開發這12種藥物都能夠在4年內達到國人能夠自己生產 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7864.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7893.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
院長你是很認真的把原子能跟藥物醫療來做結合可是我現在剛問你的問題是說我們整個能源韌性就是說您做很多的所謂的對我們因為你是研究單位那整個的能源轉型的進程那我們的包括我就剛說你核後端的技術或者是你的所謂的發展能源的這些關鍵技術你現在的一些成果如何啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7894.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7912.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
像我们做电网,能源方面电网是很重要的,所以电网我们开发的设备现在在台队云林区处也取代,因为新的绿能的发展,所以有二十几个区处,我们十几个区处已经取代原来西门子的产品。 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7913.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
7934.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
因為綠能進來以後供電會比較不穩定難調控那我們開發這個電網這個新的技術這一項也得到世界百大對就在問您這個看有沒有再進一步的突破所以另外一個核後端的技術我們也配合國家SMR的計畫我們也開發研究將來SMR也可以將國內的 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
7935.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
7955.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
所以在SMR現在目前還沒有太有突破性的沒有辦法配合國際趨勢能夠將來把它減肥好了解謝謝主席謝謝林益菁委員官員請回座現在休息五分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
7964.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
7964.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
16号16号16号16号 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
7986.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
7987.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
還有SPA的 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8007.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8009.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
大家請稿啊請稿請稿請稿請稿請稿 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8032.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8037.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
是原來有古怪 原來有古怪 原來有古怪 原來有古怪 原來有古怪 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8048.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8049.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
這裏有個小廁所 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8063.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8089.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對, |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8090.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8091.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
這裏面有兩間餐廳 兩間餐廳 三間餐廳 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8101.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8107.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
藍芽跟棋弓的關係沒有什麼可以幫助的沒有,沒有藍芽棋弓沒有,沒有藍芽棋弓沒有,沒有藍芽棋弓 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8122.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8138.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
我們不需要就做一套人情不需要那會啥也不太好那會給我們一個機會中期應該是6-10多年那每個人家庭中期都會感受一點點的幸福不像現在的情況但是喜歡的事情每一天 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8303.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8304.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
現在繼續開會請吳思瑤委員進行詢答請 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8311.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8328.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
谢谢主席非常开心我终于可以回到我最热爱的教育文化委员会那今天第一次的质询我请和安会的陈主委那经济部的赖长次还有台电的许副总请三位机关代表上台 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8336.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8341.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
稍候一下还有一位没关系没问题慢慢来慢慢走辛苦了 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8344.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8365.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
今天是河安會的業務報告也是我們的專報對於核電廠在運轉的規劃跟推動的現況我想我的破題非常的清楚重啟廚藝的核電廠是長路漫漫是道足且長它不是一蹴可及更不是箭在弦上這是非常清楚的一個現況下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8367.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8384.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
我前陣子正因為去支持WBC棒球賽我人在日本東京那個時候剛好是全日本各大媒體都在進行311大地震15週年的回顧所以我在東京人在日本的那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8385.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8400.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
期間我大量的閱讀了理解了日本人怎麼去審視生命的犧牲歷史的教訓帶給他們的省思311日本大地震的罹難人數15901位到去年還持續 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8405.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8429.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
在發現有罹難死亡的人數 他是攀升的失蹤的人口高達2519人而有家歸不得的避難人數還有26281位而嚴守地區 宮城地區 福島地區所流失的人口他被迫離開他的故鄉有264100人 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8433.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8462.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
所以高市早苗首相也出席了15周年的追悼仪式我们看看日本我们要想想台湾的核能安全不可打折下一页而在三一震灾发生之后继任的首相安倍首相他大幅的来进行因为三一地震前运转中的日本的核电厂是54错但因为震灾之后全部停下来 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8463.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8478.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
安倍首相当时继任之后他做了非常重要的一件事情就是大规模的全面强化所有的日本核电厂的安全规格而他们花的时间也是三四年以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8480.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8502.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
從2011-311地震到全面重啟 不能講全面重啟透過安全規格的重新審視強化之後逐步恢復運轉或除疫的最快也歷經三四年以上的時間所以安全的再確認是需要時間的就如同台灣現在正在進行的 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8503.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8515.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
所以在54座日本的核电厂在311之后全数停下来以后呢经过三四年的安全规格的提升恢复运转的只有15座 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8517.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8541.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
已經通過安全審查但是他放棄了重新運轉有三座主要的理由就是日本的在地地方政府的反對跟民意的反彈所以不是通過安全審查就一定恢復因為也要社會溝通然後呢目前持續在審查中從311到現在15年了安全規格還在審查能不能夠重新運轉還有八座 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8542.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8571.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
而明確的不可以贏不安全有24座這是日本給我們的訊息也就是安全的審視在複合式的災害發生各國都在做即便是日本他們也花了至少三四年以上甚至15年以上都還在重新審視要不要重新恢復核電廠的運轉所以社會不應當給予過高的期待或是不合 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8572.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8591.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
不合道理的期待說台核三廠現在重啟再運轉的這個計畫是不是就可以再運轉而且要快這以對比日本的經驗並非如此我的資訊不管是陳主委或者是賴長次是不是都同意我的看法好那下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8592.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8617.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
所以说去年五月通过核管法的修法我们必须依法行政所以让已经执照借满的核电厂可以重新申请换照依法行政所以赖清德总统才提出我们依法是首要而安全不能打折核安会依法要定定安全审查的程序办法我们已经做了 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8618.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8637.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
然后台电要依法来规定自主安全的检查正在ING嘛所以说未来依法之后的三个原则何安无虞何非有解社会共识要具足这些都还有漫漫长路不是一路可骑 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8637.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8654.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
这是我的立场也是我认为捍卫法治以及捍卫国人的安全我必须做的立场的宣誓下页那这里就要就教于你们了重启核电有谱了吗似乎政策就拍板了我们要重启核电了吗 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8655.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8671.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
我這裡列出來的台電提出再運轉計畫就是現在3月底要提出另外還有一個可能要花1.5年到2年之間還需要進行自主安全檢查對不對台電要過兩關嘛是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8672.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8677.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
和安會要過四關嘛完備法規嚴謹審查強化管制強化社會溝通和安會還有四關而最終政府的立場政策要拍板要不要重啟核三還需要過 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8689.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8706.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
何安無於何費有解社會共識的三觀所以我認為還要過五觀斬六將甚至過八觀斬八將過十觀斬十將才有可能請問這些程序是不是如此誰要回答主委簡單回答吧是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8708.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8726.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
所以說呢下一頁just the beginning不是ending今天台電三月底要提出的核三再運轉計畫不等於重啟核電已經拍板yes也不等於核三再運轉可以上路已經夠了 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8727.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8756.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
It's just beginning不是一個終局不是ending這個我們要清楚的向社會來論述而且我就教於看是賴長治還是台電許副總除了以後老化的狀況是不是能夠符合再運轉的條件我們可以再展延使用幾年呢以及進行地震的危害分析核電廠的安全無虞了嗎這三件事情是不是就包含在你們再運轉計畫的重中之重 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8758.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8773.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
委員點出了關於核能安全的一個重要性跟它的影響那確實包括老化的狀況符合再運轉的條件可以再使用幾年事實上台電公司跟西屋公司已經簽了備忘錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8774.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8798.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
需要去进行这方面的确认之外那相关的自主安全检查还要经过同彩的审认所以安全是一个最重要的在一个安全的基础之下才有办法去进行后面的一个事项那所以我们关不于安全希望透过这个核安会严谨的审查的程序来确认以上的 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8799.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8813.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
所以说就像一位最近运动很夯我举一个例子生活化的例子大家比较容易理解就像一位运动员他已经退役了他可能离开运动场了 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8814.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8837.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
他认为我好像可以再回到运动场去参加竞技比赛他必然要经过完整的体检他的状况这个运动选手他的所有的老化状况他的生理机能他的心理调试适不适合再回到运动场上为国家拼勤白他必须透过一个基本的运动员的体检 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8837.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8866.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
如果可以那他大概还可以再延续几年国家来依据这位运动员量身定做他的再训练计划他的这些再推广计划能够参加譬如说望远2028的巴黎奥运或者是之后对不起未来下一届的奥运或是之后的赛事他必然先体检再提出投资这个运动员的评估具体可行的时程 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8867.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8896.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
才能够让他恢复一个现役运动员的身份我这样的举例我希望让社会能够比较有助于清楚的理解台电即便依核管法的修法提出核三再运转的计划它只是just the beginning第一步要先确认核三除以后它的老化状况能不能够符合安全再运转的条件这是我今天质询很重要的重点最后一页再三十秒就好 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
8896.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
8922.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
最后一页有很多媒体就开始在散布说赖清德总统说2027年就要重启核三了然后呢绿能是错的我们绿能就不要了因为已经要走核电了这个总统府经济部行政院已经多次澄清就是我今天为什么花了这么多时间在论述just the beginning我们没有马上就进入核三除以之后再运转go |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
8922.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
8931.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
沒有這件事情安全依法有程序而綠能因此good bye了嗎沒有來次長簡單的回應 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
8933.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
8955.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
多元的綠能一直在能源轉型重要的一環那不但是我們要提供給企業足夠的這個綠電來讓他在出口的競爭力上面對減碳的部分也是我們關乎的目標以去年為例的話我們經濟成長率只交出一個亮麗的成績單但是我們的電力排放係數還在下降 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
8957.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
8974.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
所以说国力就是电力电力就是国力我支持行政部门进行台湾的二次能源转型即便是我们愿意接受全世界先进的新式核能技术这个SMR也许可能是选项但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
8975.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
8999.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
能源的多元化是没有退路的我们对于太阳能对于风力对于现在积极发展的地热小水利氢能源等等我们都没有停止绿能还是国家的现在进行式也是台湾发展的必要我想清楚的讯息传达给大家我们就继续依法行政 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
8999.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9027.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
安全不打折然后要fulfill三大前提才有下一步辛苦大家继续努力谢谢谢谢吴思瑶委员请官员回座接下来有请吴佩逸委员谢谢主席我请何安慧何安慧主委请上台 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9031.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9038.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
主委好 主委我們去年河岸會第13次的委員會議有沒有討論游離輻射防護法的修法有沒有這個討論或是有同仁可以來協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9047.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9074.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
那我為什麼這麼關注因為我在2024年當時的在也是教文會預算提案的時候當時我就提案要敦促和安會可以盡速來完成修法那為什麼呢因為事實上你們去年這個討論是遲來的討論我們回顧一下這個修法歷程的討論因為我們游離輻射防護法這個事實上是你們專業的科技法規但是也是攸關人民健康安全的民生法規 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9074.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9095.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
因為它的這個應用相當的廣泛包括了工業應用我們放射診斷放射治療等等其實跟民眾的健康都是息息相關的例如說我們就醫時候我們照X光我們的癌症治療我們海關檢查這些都跟我們這一個游離輻射防護法是有所相關但是呢我們現在這個立法是在2002年的時候就立了 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9097.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9107.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
到今天一次都沒有修過但是國際的標準有沒有改變已經改變了那河安會員能不能說明一下這個我們之前修法的討論是如何報告委員確實我們在主改前也就是2022年那時候我們有提出給行政院來進行那個扶方法的一個草案的一個審議那也有審了不過因為後來我們那個原能會已經改組成河安會 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9126.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9137.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
所以我們後續又依照我們的一個和安會的一個組織架構以及在立院有委員的一些提案的一個一個建議的一個內容我們重新的來去做一個內容的一個審視那也通過了我們那個和安會的一個委員會議全體委員的一個一個同意我們就後續就經過那個行政院的一些性評還有一些人權的一個評估之後我們已經在 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9154.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9181.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
3月的又那個今年的3月我們送給行政院發函給行政院來再一次進行審議好因為我們現行法規是配合的是國際放射防護委員會1991年的規範2007年其實就已經有新的規範產生了所以我知道你們2022年的時候本來已經有修法草案了嘛好那麼現在你們現在這個修法版本已經抱怨了對不對好我們希望說今年啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9182.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9204.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
今年能夠來送到立法院來審議希望這個法規的這個修法其實已經是延遲了可以盡快來完成這部分我會持續的跟核安會來追蹤那接下來呢也是有關游離輻射相關的問題那我請這個核安會請劉柏慶國務院還有這個經濟部也一起上台是我們經濟部 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9206.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9227.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
标准检验局我们有一个国家有理辐射标准的建立那我们当时是委托了也就是我们现在的国园院我们成立一个国家有理辐射标准实验室那么我看了一下就是我们去年呢12月的时候我们也有开这个咨询会议那就到我们这个 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9228.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9257.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
游离辐射的这个标准实验室的现场其实到现场来开会那我愿意针对我们的设备有一些讨论例如说其中之一就是我们的设备许多好像都相当的老旧就将近20年甚至20年以上甚至有一些都是已经在使用上面已经不是很符合我们现在的需求了那这个部分何安慧能不能说明一下有没有掌握我们这个实验室的设备老旧 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9258.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9284.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
的問題是國營院做說明好國家游離標準實驗室事實上他第一次成立的時候是民國90年剛開始的時候就經濟部標檢局補助了大概2500萬那可是到今年今年的預算就下降大概只剩下三成920萬然後對於我們一些原來一些幾個重要的設施 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9285.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9305.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
比方說已經用了18年的校正這個X光機的電腦斷層校正的這個設備還有低能量X光機的校正設備還有孤60的這個校正設備都分別是18年到25年所需要的更換的設備都遠超過950萬甚至要到1500萬可是長期以來都沒辦法把這些老舊的設備汰換掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9312.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9341.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
那最後一項是河安會有建議這個比較迫切所以也撥補了額外撥補了我們1500萬就依據今年要完成這個社員的更新所以這個實驗室我想一直長期以來都是國家重要的一個基礎設施之一兼顧國家良策體系的關鍵角色希望對民眾的生活這個施政的目標等等希望能夠委員繼續支持讓我們有一個合理的 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9343.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9361.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
我看一下你們那個中能量X光機甚至都使用時數都已經超過原廠建議值了然後你那個低能量X光機這個說超過25年然後呢一直在故障這個剛剛講這個低能量X光機像這個一台大概多少錢如果買新的話新機的話要1000萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9365.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9387.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
一千萬也不是一個很大的預算所以說我們國家沒有這麼窮這個是我們國家的實驗室也標準也就這三個而已所以說請這個河岸會國務院你們要去盤點你們這個設備不要讓那個委員來提醒我們確實我們有所需求要去更新的這個計劃因為是由基金部來委辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9388.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9413.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
對不對所以你的預算是由經濟部來來編列嗎逐年編列是不是你們把這個需求提出來我們跟經濟部也來討論真的有需求的預算上面允許的我們是不是趕快來給他汰換更新呢這個市長謝謝委員的支持這個部分的這個經費除了經濟部委辦的這個900萬之外那河岸會也編列了差不多1500萬的 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9416.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9422.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
來去維持這個試驗室的運作 那委員的指教的問題我們會跟河岸會對 因為1500萬光是一台機器就不夠啦這個何況你還要營運 這個請你們一起來共同討論好不好好 謝謝那接下來呢 這個市長請回 國務院請回 這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9433.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9451.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
這個主委我要請教的是這個我們核電廠不管是不是要繼續運轉核廢料問題還是都要處理所以乾除設施的進度大家都很關心尤其是我們的核二廠因為核二廠的我們這個乾除設施開始試運轉了沒有什麼時候可以用 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9455.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9472.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
核二廠我們在今年的3月6號核准台電公司核二廠乾除的試運轉計畫那台電公司在3月16號開始進行試運轉開始試運轉那他如果要正式運轉的話還要通過什麼程序 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9473.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9501.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
後續試運轉完成後台電公司依法要提出運轉執照申請那依據合一廠的經驗我們大概審查時間是4個月對到時候還是要經過審查嘛是對不對因為我們看了一下合一廠的像一號機你那個從開始乾除好了之後從開始以燃料棒第一個是2024年10月到移完2025年8月就將近10個月的時間這是一號機而已還有二號機 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9502.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9519.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
那我們核二廠現在乾除為什麼那麼重要因為我看了經濟部跟台電的報告因為接下來他要來送你審這個有沒有在在運轉的這個計畫當中要自主安全檢查嘛對不對但是核二廠的狀況是他要做自主安全檢查他必須要乾除先好 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9520.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9533.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
他的這個燃料棒要先從反應爐先移出來才能夠檢查是不是這個誰可以說明一下所以你這個乾除如果沒有好的話你連自主檢查都沒辦法檢查沒有檢查就不可能送給核安會這個誰能夠說明一下這個核二廠有關於乾除進度跟我們自主檢查 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9540.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9560.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
委員講的正確因為自主安全檢查最重要實際上就是我之前講的大概就是反應爐那一塊那一塊現在目前來講每一部機大概有624副燃料都在裡面所以必須要乾除完成以後才能夠去把反應爐內的用過燃料移出來以後才能去做所謂的自主安全檢查 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9562.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9584.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
檢測了這一塊是所以呢這個核二廠的乾除的進度因為前面其實跟地方政府也有溝通上面的問題延宕了許久所以接下來這個部分我想我們每一個環節我們都要非常的審慎非常的謹慎然後都不能的去疏忽安全還是我們最重要的考量是當然好謝謝台電好謝謝這個核安會謝謝好謝謝吳佩儀委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9590.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9608.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
請官員回座接下來有請萬美林委員質詢謝謝昭偉我們一樣請陳明珍主委還有賴次長還有許副總請三個機關代表上台謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9614.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9640.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
诶 诸位我们那个都一起好了就是我们巩部长提到今天大家也都在问哦核三厂已经启动了自主安全检查三月就要这个运转计划送到核安会哦那预计二零二八年就可以将核三重启哦那而且也说到如果这个汰换设备这个不多重启的时间就会再缩短哦那我们美国西屋公司其实也要展开了设备老化的分析这些工作哦那我这边再确认一次哦 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9641.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9653.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
核三厂再运转计划三月份要送核安慰距离现在只剩下12天的时间那跟台电经济部跟各位确认核三厂再运转的计划其实有没有改变会如期送到吗 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9655.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9674.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
這個部分剛剛台電公司已經要表達他會在三月底之前送出來再運轉計畫說完全沒有問題所以計畫也不會改變對不對這是確定的嘛好那再來喔 國務黨又說到他說現在我們在美國的西屋公司已經開始展開設備老化的一個分析的工作了這沒有錯嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9675.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9698.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
好 那台電在這段時間也開始進行安全檢查核安會的報告又提到說有派員赴核電廠掌握了設備的現況那我想請教一下主委 請教一下許副總我們現在掌握設備是不用汰換的 是有多少那預計有沒有辦法縮短核三廠重啟的時間要檢測 檢測完以後才知道說 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9700.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9704.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
才能知道說我這個設備到底我未來如果要繼續運轉到底他需不需要去做更換 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9705.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9734.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
對那現在因為剛才已經說過嘛已經開始進行安全檢查所以現在已經檢測到大概百分之多少目前來講我們剛開始進行一些檢測的工作那評估的工作當然之前大概就已經所以檢測完成了嗎還沒有還沒有進行了多少目前來講這個月開始我們會開始進行所謂的蒸汽產生器也就產生蒸汽做發電的把它當成是一個工程一個計畫現在進行了百分之多少目前來講大概就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9735.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
9747.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
西屋的那一塊我講西屋那一塊西屋那一塊目前來講正在做一些他給他的下包商的工具的這個製造不好意思直接回答我一下現在進行了百分之多少了 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
9748.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
9770.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
目前來講我這裡手上沒有詳細的數字那就是剛開始的意思對不對那我想由開始總是好的但是麻煩進度要趕上我講的是檢測的部分那麼我想再請教一下主委好了我們核安會作為我們核能最高的主管機關也是一個審查的單位主委你認為核三廠重啟是一個完全的科學問題還是政治問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
9772.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
9795.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
我们核证一定本是专业确定他安全我们才会让他所以是科学问题还是政治问题是科学技术上的问题科学问题嘛对不对很好为什么这样问因为我们这么多年说下来核安会是独立的机关就是要提醒主委说您刚说到的专业审查这件事情是很重要的所以呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
9796.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
9812.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
千千萬萬不要讓政治去影響這個在專業上這件事情該怎麼審就要怎麼審當然了 核產廠能不能在2028去重啟還有一個問題我們知道賴清德總統他說過核電重啟的三大原則一 核安無虞二 核廢有解 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
9812.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
9832.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
三社会要有共识那我今天来提醒这个经济部或者核安会有没有跟行政院讨论过关于所说的核废有解这件事情什么叫做核废有解标准是什么是最终储市场出来叫做核废有解还是要具备什么样条件这非常模糊能不能说明一下还是赖总统说了算 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
9839.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
9858.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
首先跟委員說明啊 無論在運轉中的或是在審查中的這個計畫其實這個核廢料的處理都是階段性的處理不管是低階或是高放我們能不能重點告訴我核廢油解的標準你認為是什麼或是乾除的一個作業都是我們跟國際同軌來進行運轉中的這個核電廠的 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
9864.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
9880.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
這樣好不好我覺得這一題也不是你這樣三言兩語可以答出來的你會後跟本席一個報告核廢有解意義是哪些條件是哪些這種事可以給我今天下午就可以來嘛好不好那我想再請教主委一下我們目前上擁有高階核廢料最終處理廠的國家有多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
9884.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
9912.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
最終處置嗎 我已經講最終處置嗎高階核廢料最終處置廠目前來講大概只有芬蘭只有芬蘭一家芬蘭也還沒有正式拿到它的使用執照它目前在做一些試運轉測試對對對 好 沒錯就是目前嚴格算來就是只有芬蘭一家那除了這些國家以外就除了芬蘭之外其他的國家對於高階核廢料怎麼處理的你們知道嗎核廢料 我簡單講就是核廢料的處置其上這一塊其他的國家大致上都是用什麼方式處理的 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
9913.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
9932.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
目前来讲大概甘氏储存像美国我在这里要提醒一下就是我国高阶核废料最终处置场现在可以说是连法规都没有所以次长也在这里我请教最后一个问题我们高阶核废料选址条例的草案进度现在到哪里了什么时候才能够出来 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
9933.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
9958.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
第一个我们去年成立办公室那这个办公室目前工作的重点有三个部分第一个说起到国外核能使用的国家它法规的一个定定的一个过程那另外对于民间版的一些的意见我们也在做综合的这个整理除此之外的话我们也办了相关的所谓的所以草案还在草案是这样吗 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
9958.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
9979.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
还在资料收集的阶段我认为真的需要再快一点脚步要再快一点所以惠惠也告诉我一下你这个草案进度实际现在到哪里了做了哪些事情那你预计还要多久时间才能够完成把这个草案顺利完成完毕以后因为这样子我们到后来高阶核废料最终处置场的建立 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
9980.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
9995.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
我想这都是一系列非常的重要的所以最后我提醒我想我们这个高阶核废料的最终处置场这个不是短时间之内就能建立起来这你们一定同意但我们低阶核废料最终处置场也跟地方又沟通了10年也还没有一个结果 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
9996.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10022.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
所以本席認為高階的這個最終主持長的預估時間可能會更久因此在每一個環節我拜託大家我們的腳步要加快一點要更積極一點否則我們這個核電廠重啟會是遙遙無期以上兩個我需要調的資料拜託今天都能夠給我可以嗎我們相關的這個我們現在工作的方向整理起來給我好不好因為那都是本來就有的好不好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10024.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10050.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
謝謝萬美玲委員請官員回座接下來有請劉淑冰委員好謝謝主席那有請河岸會陳主委跟經濟部賴次長跟台電的副總經理許副總上台謝謝好請上三個機關代表上台謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10055.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10082.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
好首先問應該是關於經濟部的能源的問題隨著NVIDIA跟Google微軟跟亞馬遜的國際科技大廠巨頭紛紛在台擴大投資資料中心之後台灣大學的教授趙家瑋他預估到2030年的無碳電力或是綠電的需求會達到700億度可是我們現在才發現到2025年台灣的再生能源發電量只有378億度請問 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10086.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10097.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
我們經濟部我們能夠在2030年達到每年700億度跟趙家瑋教授說的再生能源的發電量總量來滿足到海內外企業在台灣的需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10099.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10125.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
首先在綠電的供給跟需求的部分我以去年為例的話去年我們的供給量差不多超過400億度那企業的需求差不多是200多億度那今年大概企業的需求是250幾億度那我們預估今年大概可以提供大概相關的綠電最新調查的結果差不多530多億度當然我們可以滿足的那這個是一個長遠的目標你是說什麼時候是500億度是什麼時候2030年嗎2026 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10129.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10135.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
2026 500億度所以我剛才問的問題是2030年700億度你認為是沒問題的嗎我們現在有計劃有持續的在推動這個工作比如說我們今年的離岸風電的併網大概有5.3GW市長我請你就問說2030年能不能700億度你回答能不能這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10158.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10171.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
基本上我們有推估過大概是在2030年之前我們供給是大於需求的啦好但是700億度應該你說認為可以可是我說700億度你剛才說到500億度這樣很大的問題喔事實上你沒有在做承諾啦因為你沒有辦法做承諾為什麼因為我們看到去年啊光電的修法已經擴大了環評啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10181.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10204.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
丹納斯颱風又吹翻了十萬片的太陽能板啊離岸風電呢也處於在全球的一個逆風期喔包括台灣也有跟這個森微能源公司跟台電有工程款的款項整個呢再生能源的發展就進入到了一個停滯期可是你現在卻說是可以直接的說應該是需求你們供給會大於需求這是根本是 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10205.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10229.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
沒辦法配合的這樣給目標達成啊那如果你們這樣子達成你們這樣說明齁那如果真的沒辦法達成尤其是會不會因為到說因為像AVIDIA他們收Microsoft的Google這些大廠他們如果因為我們綠電沒辦法達成在2030年的時候而開天窗而把預估到甚至到2028年他們就移轉到其他的像日本啊韓國這些國家的時候那害台灣喪失了這樣子的AI產業鏈的樞紐地位的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10234.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10257.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
這個是沒辦法去接受的啊因為我們台灣在國際間最大的利益在這裡啊那這個時候是不是經濟部跟秦政院長要負責下台啊委員無論是Media或是美光都已經宣布在台灣設立總部或是擴大建廠我相信他們有他們評估的這個基礎那政府也努力在做綠電的發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10259.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10279.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
那雖然說去年通過的有關於太陽能光電的幾個法規是全世界最嚴格的但是我們還是有排成的把這些所謂的太陽能光電組織的發展出來我們就拭目以待就對了希望是真的是供給大於需求那下面再一個問題就在於說呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10279.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10307.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
現在因為你們已經提到了經濟部呢對於核二核三呢是準備要重啟因為是經濟部已經跟台電說要提出來這樣一個申請的這樣的一個計畫以後會慢慢再進行那現在的問題呢是在於說我們看到呢因為核電廠的裡面的核廢料賴清德總統也說到嘛核廢料應該要有解我們看到了核三廠的燃料池呢現在他剩下的535宿的存放空間呢那包含到 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10308.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10315.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
這個一號機組二號機組加起來的事實上是535可是如果每個機組的週期算起來是66如果再算到一個週期是18個月的話四個週期是6年那這個地方我們想問的是說它事實上可以營運到6年可是台電為什麼之前預估到河山廠只能再運作3到5年它就誤導社會大眾這部分有個前提對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10332.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10341.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
第一點三到五年是一個保守的估計我總是不能說萬一我說六年到最後第二個大概就是因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10343.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10369.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
主要是河山之前他要進入廚藝所以他在前一個週期的燃料的耗盡我想就是說燃耗的部分比較多所以比如說像我們估計大概第一個週期呢第一個十八個週期就不是六十六束了就要將近八十束的燃料也就是說你六年的部分大概就是以一般營運中的週期性的大修去估計大概六十六束到七十束到六十八束左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10370.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10387.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
可是呢因為他已經進入廚藝燃耗已經比較燃耗比較多了也就是說他的鈾的那個可以發電的鈾的含量比較少所以必須要到八十數因為兩部機都必須要到八十數好那沒有問題好我現在給大家理解可是我們現在知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10387.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10388.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
對 我們現在在審標中 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10413.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10440.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
核三的我們在審標希望是答案在這邊說他不用再停機再重啟那最後一個問題就可以看到的是一個這部分看到的是說我們現在因為剛剛說核二也涉及到了那我們核二的部分呢現在涉及到的是他已經有在就是現在在做冷測試那預計說年底的部分就完成測試那會之後會交給還會因為才開始會做台電會做自主的安全檢查對不對對 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10443.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10463.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
那自主安全檢查之後呢 包括的是他的這個自主安全檢查然後等等的 還有包括是他還要再去看待說是不是有一個時間性檢查的時間會不會很久 然後才會影響到整個的核二廠的這個一個運轉時間 是不是給一個明確的交代目前來講我們所要工作當然就是把 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10469.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10494.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
624宿裡面的燃料在乾除設施拿出來拿出來以後我們才能夠進行所謂的安全的檢測的部分那這個時間你們預估如果順利的話當然如果說需要再什麼備料什麼安全的零件必須再補的話如果順利的話大概會多久時間基本上有兩個變數第一個變數大概就是我們如果依照目前的期程希望在明年的一號機 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10496.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10511.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
核二的醫藥機的燃料能夠移到乾除設施那再進行安檢那安檢以後才會看設備的一個狀態去做相關的更新的工作那更新的工作又牽扯到譬如說我這個設備我總是要採購採購我下單以後它有一個Leading Time製造期 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10514.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10539.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
那製造期這個部分的影響會的變數比較大的原因是會根據我國際的目前到底它是一個買方市場還是一個賣方市場跟國際核能的這個發展的部分如果很多石家通通下同樣的料那當然我必須要去搶這個料那它的Leading Time它的先期製造的這個到貨的這個日期當然就會非常長這個是比較大的變數 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10539.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10558.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
那如果是根據像河山這個情況下是不是就像現在的今年河山部分今年三月底要提出自主安全的已經提出報告出來再運轉計劃再運轉的就是整備計劃這是一項整備計劃可是如果去年自主安全計劃在河山提出來對不對那現在已經完成要提到已經 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10560.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10583.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
連月底要送到河岸會去審對不對那這個部分看起來的話應該是蠻快的大概半年多而已嘛如果說順利的話要看河岸會審查的期程沒有我剛剛說自主安全檢查這部分啦那如果是這樣的話我看預計可能到20如果真的順利的話可能2028、29就可以提出自主安全計畫出來是有可能的嘛安全對安全跟時間上 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10585.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10603.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
等於是安全我沒辦法用時間來去全能對但是如果說順利的話就是自主安全計畫應該是有計畫完成嘛對不對要看我的檢測的結果好我們希望說到時候完成是不是核安會這邊收到台電的自主安全計畫在核二廠的部分核安會是不是也能夠是儘快的來提出好好的審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10605.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10624.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
我們會好好審查好 我們希望以安全無虞這也是民眾黨最重要的需求安全無虞的情況之下然後再繼續回復到我們台灣供電的需求好 謝謝謝謝劉淑冰委員的質詢 請官員回座接下來有請賴世保委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10636.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10656.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
謝謝主席以及各位先進有請經濟部的賴次長以及和安會的陳主委以及台電的長官是許副總好 請三個機關代表相談 謝謝好 三位長官我先問一下經濟部的賴次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10663.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
10682.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
這個 三位長官好我請教 這個電價要持續動漲嗎看起來這個樣子 我們左院長說不敢講這兩個 不要講這兩個字實際上就是兩個字 一早怪地我們3月底會開電價審議委是啦 我知道啦 那是過場 那基本上就是要動漲那我現在來講的話 問題是民間 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
10687.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
10708.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
統中的瓦斯已經漲了兩次了天然氣的瓦斯3月1號開始漲3%啦那我現在就是你或者台電都可以回答以台電來講去年賺錢喔盈餘700多億喔可是累積的虧損高達3500億了你們的資本額3300嘛對不對那個許副總你們資本額多少資本額多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
10715.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
10739.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
啊 增加 換來增資啦 原來三千多嘛 增資嘛我們給你們增資又給補貼啊 命啊 把啦 嘎嘎咧 這樣喔可是我們的負債比例多少 知道嗎 次長或者許副總都講可以 台電負債比例多少93%負債 淨值多少 net value net worth多少 淨值多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
10744.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
10772.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
這個必須要依照會計準則去看他 禁止多少禁止人家面子十塊台電的禁止是兩塊啦兩塊錢啦 對吧許副總一直點頭 對嘛齁我沒有冤枉你 兩塊錢啦這個公司如果在民間炸了倒啊炸了倒啊啦喔 炸了倒啊你去年還可以有獲利喔還有盈利 今年的話因為又配合這個不是錯 錯不在台電 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
10774.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
10793.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
這個不叫錯 動漲絕對支持民間要支持 現在這個時候全世界打仗美國伊朗這個打仗打這麼兇可是我現在就問你就是說我們動漲動不到民間的小吃店它統裝瓦斯 家庭用的天然氣瓦斯弄得起啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
10795.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
10809.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
車長你要說什麼 你有什麼陰影嗎我們棟長看了都很漂亮啊我們希望棟長啊 不要影響啊 對不對但是呢 民間小吃店就影響了家庭的天然氣瓦斯就影響了這漲很多喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
10813.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
10829.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
委員剛剛講的這個會計的數據顯示台電在過去二五戰爭的時候因為原物料的這個大漲國際的進料燃料的大漲吸收的這一些的產生了虧損那剛剛委員也提到說希望說電價是要穩定的 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
10831.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
10847.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
但是過去我們多次的提出你沒有回答問題 因為時間有限你回答我對於瓦斯 桶裝或天然氣這個你們怎麼辦嘛你動都沒有動到這個啊這個是你管的啊 基金不管的啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
10847.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
10866.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
桶裝瓦斯也就是液化石油氣第一個我跟大家說明的是它的進口的來源受中東的影響是沒有的第二個我時間有限了你回答我你怎麼做法因為這個影響到我們的便當等一下吃便當便當的價格就一直漲 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
10867.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
10891.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
對不對 你的小吃店這個東西就是老百姓照顧人家這個都沒有反對CPI喔都沒有什麼人都CPI一化石油氣的這個部分它的這個價格它這個市場是一個自由競爭的市場是啊 你管不到啊行政院也有成立了物價穩定的小組所以你們毫無對策你們毫無對策你們要不要補貼他們啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
10896.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
10924.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
那另外的部分我們是在看說這個未來這個價格的這個狀況因為你現在天然你現在那個油氣是動漲的喔動漲的部分能不能也cover到瓦斯這邊家用的瓦斯能不能給它動漲有沒有辦法這個我們綜合來評估一下去評估一下好不好去評估一下那我就問你台電現在淨紙只剩兩塊有沒有考慮要增資啦台電有沒有增資 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
10927.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
10928.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
所以我們才會包括電價審議委員會的委員都建議說立法院要支持對於台電的預算的撥補 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
10943.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
10969.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
那你先減少浪費啊 你浪費一堆 來我另外一個題目賴清的總統他在選總統職的時候他說了緊急的情況可以用核電問一下我們的陳主委這個他講緊急情況是馬上可以用喔這個裡面就要不要考慮核安 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
10972.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
10991.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
這個情況還需要要合乎安全規定才能夠他講的意思是馬上可以啟用喔對於停機沒有多久的那個核電設備馬上可以使用喔他講的是什麼意思喔你翻一翻他2025年不是2023年因為2022是選總統嘛2023年他公開講什麼話講這個話現在法規上是不允許不允許 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
10999.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11017.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
所以他那時候隨便講講他那時候隨便講講是不是配選票讓我把話講完只有一種情況例外就這個意思啊不然怎麼樣只有一種情況例外就是他總統就例外遇到緊急狀況依照我們憲法是可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11018.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11024.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
要求緊急所以他講沒錯 如果這樣他講沒錯所以緊急情況 現在是不是緊急是啊總統打仗都不會玩了打不完每天打現在不是緊急狀況現在問你是不是緊急狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11034.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11038.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
現在如果是緊急情況 是不是可以跳過河岸警察直接使用核電 是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11052.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11075.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
不是 總統要宣布緊急命令而且還是要核安還要核准確定能安全才能成功沒有 你剛才的意思喔你剛才第一次講的還真的喔你的意思說宣布緊急情況因為總統可以宣布緊急命令緊急命令就正核安就不需要做核安了直接使用核電是不是還是要安全狀況之下才能有啟動 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11077.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11086.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
他就不用在台電囉囉嗦嗦這個囉哩囉嗦還要什麼申請什麼就直接你們河岸檢查過了就可以用了是不是這個意思主委你講話 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11091.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11104.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
現在不管是油氣或是貨源 貨氣都是充足的而我們台電公司也依照正常的排程在進行發電我的問題就在於賴總統講的緊急情況可以用核電我是跟你這樣講這個問題你不要跟我講烏仕山的 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11113.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11135.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
這個就是他講過緊急情況可以用核電那主委的講說如果宣布緊急情況是可以跳過核安的檢查或者是說跳過申請直接核安檢查就可以用了是不是沒有說要跳過核安檢查還需要核安檢查對好 那就跳過台電的申請直接核安檢查就可以用是不是是不是 來來來 主委你要回答這個這麼重要的問題啊這總統的講話呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11142.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11165.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
它是要經過核安會的探討但是台電就不用不用經過台電的申請就直接你就來給他看可以的話就給他用啦台電要申請的才行啊但是行程可以大無縮短吧應該這樣子吧這是在緊急情況我跟你講這個戰爭如果一直打再打到九月份就是緊急情況了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11166.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11195.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
就緊急情況了啦你們認真去想一下經濟部的跟河岸會的去想一下這個東西怎麼樣符合你問一下賴總統他到底什麼意思講清楚想清楚講清楚這個要講清楚對不對緊急什麼叫緊急情況總統發布緊急命令的時候就沒有什麼立法權了啦就通過行政權啦行政權獨大還是要三十天裡面教會立法院的 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11196.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11221.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
沒有 那是事後啦事後經過立法院的追認追認啦但是這個緊急命令就是他宣布那段時間基本上就是行政群獨大啦雖然現在是行政群獨大但是讓你知道這一點 好吧謝謝賴氏堡委員的質詢 請官員回座接下來有請蘇清泉委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11233.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11255.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
謝謝主席,我請陳明禎主委好,請陳主委上台,謝謝主委,前幾天我在總諮詢的時候有問我們的卓院長他講了一番話讓我非常的高興、欣慰 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11256.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11285.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
他說2025年7月核三廠第二部機提議之後台灣完全進入輝和家園所以2025年真的拿到了對不對對吧應該可以這麼理解吧然後2026年我們進入新的核能新的核電還有新的科技 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11287.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11298.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
他要開始啟用了,所以我非常期待,我跟我們議長說,議長有夠聰明,有夠聰明,頭前有夠呆,要不要開始?前幾天,美國一個Telapower,他宣布說要幫維碗做實作核能電廠, |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11310.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11327.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
它是要做SMR啦 做什麼我不知道啦反正各個州要搞10個核電廠然後支援微軟的AI 耗電力我們現在核三廠 我想要去10屆了 10屆有了我非常關心 我批評核三廠現在到底經營是什麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11335.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11362.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
你也有合共的嘛,你本身,所以你是人才,何山長那些人才,你那些合共要拚死耶,那是國家的人才耶,包括你耶,這些人不能讓他跑掉啦,這些人如果是國家的損失耶,我們不分政黨耶,啊你把何山長現在進步到什麼程度啊,我看那西屋的人已經遷了也來了,那現在是怎麼樣?速度要快啊, |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11364.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11366.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
台電我把你們擠成這樣 台電是在變什麼樣啊報告員沒變什麼樣 第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11374.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11394.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
在河山廠的是我台店的同仁眷屬都在那裡生活所以這個安全的部分河山廠目前來講2月開始西屋開始已經在進行一些相關品務工作檢測的工具目前也已經下單在製造中那大概陸陸續續大概後面的檢測工作大概就會進行那 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11395.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11417.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
5月17,去年5月17其實核戰人已經停業了但是我們目前的組織人力呢都沒有做任何改變以上簡短說明所以2025那個蔡英文的政權說要合約核家園也達到了那現在2026要開始新的觀念可能concept要改了那你呢就放手去做 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11418.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11444.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
主委,放手去做啦,不然會壞啦,壞到要啦美國國防部前幾天跟我們說你們台灣只有兩個機組,兩座核電才能才有機組電力這白癡也知道,智障也知道,搞那些光電,搞那些風車那些根本就是詐騙嘛,對不對我今天不這樣拍攝啦現在核三長、核二長的進度會不會,台電會不會 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11448.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11458.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
我是絕對專業機器欸 戰友黨也支持你 你在怕什麼啊報告委員 你現在支持我們是讓我們放手去做安全的檢測 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11460.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11484.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
讓我們沒有任何的干擾,讓我們好好去做吧剛剛賴社長委員提說,這個是真的賴總統講的他說你緊急狀況就沒關係,核能要頂上來了所以你們要準備好,隨時要頂上來看這個打仗,不曉得要打多久嘛,對不對所以,我們的主委,你就在你的powerful的腳,在你的拳頭上 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11487.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11509.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
台電你就要趕快加把勁嘛對不對我們希望趕快啊趕快重啟啊河山廠它的土地有500多公頃蔣經國時代我真的很佩服寬裂了500多公頃現在兩部機組才用100公頃那河山廠本來就有規劃有6部機組不管你是要合分類 要合融合 要SMR都可以啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11510.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11539.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
我們酒棚那邊還要搞衛星發射你知道嗎 已經結案了也要感謝吳立華他很認真 我們一起爭取稍微跟你講一個對不對所以用大量的電力那個清收那個電力比AI還耗電所以屏東館現在沒辦法發電清搞那些光電板有什麼屁用啊所以這個很重要主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11541.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11543.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
謝謝蘇慶權委員的質詢 請官員回座接下來有請羅廷瑋委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11568.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11576.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
好謝謝有請陳主委經濟部台電謝謝好請以上三個機關代表上台謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11582.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11607.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
好 先跟經濟部來做一個溝通我想剛剛其他的委員對於這個統裝瓦斯漲價的部分非常關心本行業應該要為基層百姓來發聲我想統裝瓦斯的部分經濟部這邊可不可以幫忙帶入相關的意見穩定相關的物價波動這部分統裝瓦斯漲價是不是能夠幫忙抑制一下經濟部 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11609.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11635.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
謝謝委員的指導我會把這個意見交給相關的生產供應公司好謝謝那另外呢也要再銜接剛剛有一題我們陳主委我們剛剛賴委員其實對於這個賴總統曾經說過這個緊急命令可能會重啟核能來做一個備用那我們先不管這整個過程我想先預設一個立場假設今天 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11636.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11654.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
我們因為國際的地緣政治衝突的一個問題導致最後我們真的需要重啟核能瞬間要來這樣子的一個備用機組趕緊頂替上來相關的緊急使用的SOP你們準備好了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
11657.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
11674.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
因為剛剛都在探討所謂的緊急命令嘛那個要賴總統來宣布嘛我現在就直接問假設今天他真的必須宣布了何能要趕快啟動來接替我們相關不足的部分你們有沒有相關的SOP |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
11675.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
11702.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
所有的東西一定要克服核能安全對我知道我知道你們一定會檢查檢驗嘛在核能安全無疑慮的情況之下才能夠啟動嘛我都知道但是你有沒有這樣子的SOP來應付緊急使用的一個過程不要說到時候賴總統宣布了緊急命令然後結果你們才說喔我來研擬一下SOP |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
11704.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
11709.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
現在已經有國際地緣政治的衝突了嘛那我們是不是有這樣的SOP請回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
11710.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
11735.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
跟委員說明那如果要緊急使用當然首先當然一開始有說到要有法源依據那要緊急使用核能電廠跟一般的發電廠不太一樣因為如果核電廠平常就是台電公司平常要維持設備的可用性那相關的人員的運轉維護能力都要有這我知道最重要的就是核燃料那核燃料要有足夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
11736.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
11763.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
那這部分就是事先要準備好所以有沒有SOP啦回答我那單位本身就有一些管制的程序平常都會有監控住所以如果他緊急要使用的時候你們就會打開這個SOP去跑這個流程平常我們就有一些管制的程序在會去監督他所以你只有管制嘛我現在是說啟動對 本來啟動就有一定的程序在監控所以你可以因應這樣子的狀態 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
11766.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
11782.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
是可以的可是台電公司就事先都要一些準備作業出來當然嘛他一定會準備不可能說我下一秒緊急啟動你下一秒就開嘛你一定會啟動一個程序然後SOP的檢查然後最後通報無疑慮然後最後再開始重啟核能嘛對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
11783.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
11794.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
所以有SOP你要跟社會大眾交代啊我們才不要說到時候遇到了完全沒辦法才來抵定所以你給我的回應是有SOP編長都會監管著好好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
11798.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
11814.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
那主委另外一個我想我也一直很關心我們現在福島河廢水排放的一個問題感覺現在也只有我在持續追蹤這個議題那第六次的赴日實地觀察整個完整的報告已經公佈在網站上 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
11815.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
11841.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
這次你也親自出席相關的訪團這次參訪的名稱我們叫做參加第十一屆台日核能管制的資訊交流會議以及核能設施的一個參訪主委請問這一次我們交流的會議及核能的參訪相關的設施針對我國核二核三再運轉你們相關的意見傾向為何 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
11846.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
11853.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
不好意思是沒辦法回答還是我的問題太深 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
11856.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
11877.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
報告委員因為這次我們去日本參訪主要是針對這個寒川廢水的議題來進行討論所以我們主委親自出席然後另外就對嘛寒川廢水是一部分嘛再來你也有啊參訪核能設施啊看完別人的核能設施了嘛那你對我國現在核二核三的再運轉有沒有什麼意見啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
11879.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
11897.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
我只是去參訪福島電廠看看他的這個災後重建的狀況以及寒川廢水我想旅費也花了意見交換了實地現場也看了那總要表態一下和二和三重啟你們是樂觀其成還是有所疑慮 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
11900.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
11920.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
我們會依法安全審查這回應就是太過官腔了啊主委我就簡單問你啊我們剛剛說的2025完成了非核家園對不對然後呢現在核核三要重啟叫做新核能 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
11921.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
11949.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
我想先請問一下核二核三重啟大概我們看到龔明新經濟部長有說過大概一年半的時間要整個流程過後請問一下重啟是檢查還是會順便太舊換新換成所謂的新式的核能機組還是原有的核能機組核二核三是原本核二核三還是新核能是原本的核二核三他不是說新核能所以政府都騙我們這是新核能 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
11950.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
11954.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
合二合三就是合二合三就是原本原汁原味的合二合三 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
11955.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
11980.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
所以我想現在日本目前正在積極的推動受污染的土壤在利用他們設置一個示範工程區其中一半是由正常的土壤來鋪設另外一半是受污染的土壤鋪設並進行相關的觀察還有測試在這一次第六次的一個赴日觀察報告第28頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
11981.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12002.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
我方有提問民眾對於道路提防示範工程的一個想法日方回答的很坦白雖然政府努力推動宣導 驗證 溝通但是民眾接受度仍面臨了不少的挑戰換句話說就是日本政府承認 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12004.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12025.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
福岛相关土壤在利用受到现在整个日本社会还是有很大的疑虑如果连日本人对自己都还有这么多的疑虑我们政府在政策上却一路着急着开放福岛的食品我想真的台湾人啊最该用什么都不怕 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12027.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12039.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
報告第29頁也提到訪團第15日傍晚行程結束後有順道在福島周邊海域採集表層的海水樣品有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12040.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12055.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
有的有喔待會台灣來做一個分析海水的川跟放射性相關的來做檢驗結果顯示啊都在目前福島周邊海域環境活度的變動範圍內我想問一下主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12059.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12082.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
為什麼只採海水怎麼不順便採一下日本的土壤樣本回來檢測去都去了來都來了尤其土壤才是很多爭議的核心問題而且福島以及周邊地區的農產品是實際有出口到台灣的市面上是有可能已經被民眾吃下肚的你怎麼不順便採集土壤回來檢驗一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12086.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12114.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
報告委員那主要是我們採海水主要是因應那個日本有針對寒川廢水的排放而且是排放30年所以我們會定期我們會去關切他對於周遭的一個環境的影響所以我們會去採川水那至於委員所說的這個日本進口的食品這邊那因為這個是屬於那個食藥署的一個衛福部食藥署的一個職責我們是有食品的部分是食藥署對 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12114.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12137.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
我說你既然都去了採集土壤了解一下相關有沒有核汙染嘛這核安慰稍微了解一下嘛這不應該推給食藥署嗎食品完食品我現在是對他們的核汙染有沒有所謂的汙染土土壤的問題那一天你們已經有做土壤汙染土的土壤工程防波堤的一個探討了嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12138.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12164.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
對不對就代表說你也關心所謂的汙染土相關的示範工程那你怎麼不順便採集汙染土呢不要跟我講說食品是食藥署我現在沒跟你講食品的問題跟委員報告一下這個所謂的一些汙染的汙染的土壤其實在日本是做一個管制的要符合一些安全標準他們才會試出來去做這些的一個所以你的意思是說他不給你採集的機率很高 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12165.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12186.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
對 因為沒有 它就是本身就是一個受管制民眾也不能夠去做一個接觸的所以他們會有一個叫做儲屋中間的儲存設施那其實在剛剛講的那他們都是在做這個沒有嘛 你有那個試著要採集被拒絕嗎你就回答我嘛還是說你真的沒想到你就直接坦白講 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12187.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12203.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
沒有想到因為這一次這個污染的土壤其實是主要是他們日本境內的一個議題所以我們沒關係我尊重你今天我們大膽坦白嘛你沒有想到要採集你剛剛承認嘛那沒有關係我沒有要責備 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12204.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12220.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
那是不是未來有第七次的機會第八次的機會來徵詢一下日方的意見我們是不是能夠採集這個土壤的部分來檢驗一下有沒有污染的外溢或者是相關的問題這部分主委你覺得可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12222.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12251.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
我們可以評估一下我希望不要評估啦因為第一除非日方拒絕第二站在我們現在核安會的一個立場我們為什麼要去看川就是我們關心核廢水排放相關的議題嘛那核廢水排放只有所謂的川的議題嗎汙染土也是我們應該關心的所以我要一直在講主委您覺得我今天講的這個議題值不值得您做參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12252.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12271.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
我們可以做參考了報告第35頁寫得很清楚東京電力每一批LPS的處理水要排放前樣品都會送到大雄分析研究中心做第三方檢驗確認川以外的其他核種都有低於排放標準如果分析結果不符合標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12273.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12289.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
現在大雄分析研究中心檢查分析的流程和儀器狀態必要時會同一批樣品再測一次確認如果復驗之後還是不符合就會立刻通報日本的經產省由經產省再進一步來調查決定後續怎麼處理針對第35頁的內容請問主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12294.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12306.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
針對復燕之後還是不符合日本經產省其應對措施如何是採取禁止排放批次的處理水還是有什麼樣的作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12309.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12338.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
報告委員那因為在報告上我們其實是關心的就是等於大酒分析實驗室內部的一個品質保證的一些程序那如果就像委員講的如果今天已經複合又是不合格送到經產省這一邊那我相信因為他們會有一個緊急的停止排放的一些相關的一個措施那這個也是他們的考量的一個點之一好緊急停止排放相關的措施是不是也麻煩你了解一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12338.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12359.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
相關的流程我們要知道要掌握啊對不對我們不能都永遠相信日方啊台日友好沒有問題啊但面對這些相關的核汙染我們要採取最高原則啊所以主委在報告第21頁日方問我們台灣在海域監測發現異常時怎麼應變我們的答覆是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12361.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12382.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
先确认数据正确性再透过台湾日本交流协会向日方确认有无异常排放确认资讯无误后才提到跨部会平台再由全责机关启动后续的因应诸位请问若发现异常后相关措施第一时间为什么不是先预警发布通知国内禁食啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12383.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12410.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
反而是要先向日方來做確認若是藥品發現疑慮食藥署第一時間是先要求下架停用再調查原因我們怎麼會變成反過來問日方這是不是太尊重了不是說要你不尊重我們應該要先以守護食安為第一優先這個流程是不是應該要有所更正更正一下主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12412.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12431.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
報告委員就是如果我們有發現確實是在復合之後有異常那我們第一時間一定是資訊公開那後續為什麼我們要去掌握日本的一個排放源頭因為我們知道日本其實跟台灣其實還是有一些距離的就像我們現在在追蹤那個海洋擴散 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12431.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12449.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
其實他現在還是以日本本州的東部為主所以在這一段的一個時間我們就會來去跟日方去做整個等於資訊的一個正確的一個查證我承認我們跟日方有一段的距離但是我也要講的是我們應該透過日方 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12450.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12469.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
能够更准确更快速的资料回传让我们能够有所判断透过台湾日本交流协会转给日方会不会要有一周两周的时间还是一个月如果日方不回应那如果日方只说没事我们就完全相信是这样子的机制吗 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12470.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
12497.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
所以我還是一再強調台日友好但面對食品安全但面對核污染我們應該是優先保障國人這樣的流程我覺得很接受挑戰所以我希望流程應該要再做相關的檢討不是不相信日方而是我們有沒有機制第一優先把關這部分主委可不可以給我回應一下我們應該回來檢討一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
12503.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
12514.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
主委最近何安慧這幾年原子能科普的一個推廣上其實做得不錯所以我想把科普的相關知識科研 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
12515.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
12538.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
成果安全管制的業務結合設計很多互動式的科普遊戲這兩年大型的科普展在雙北雲林新竹把資源帶進到地方讓更多學生家長有機會接觸請問科普展今年有沒有機會辦在台中讓中部的家長學生社會大眾也一樣有近距離接觸原子能科普的機會 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
12541.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
12567.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
我們再批過一下再回覆台中有科博館 科學園區 大專院校地方百貨公司 大型展演空間過去也多次辦相關的科普活動我想都沒有問題我是最後希望是不是主委能夠承諾一下來到台中我們會批過一下好不好再回答哪時候給我回應對不起最後一個問題哪時候給我回應 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
12570.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
12594.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
一个月内一个月内好谢谢谢谢罗廷辉委员的质询请官员回座接下来是杨琼英委员杨琼英委员杨琼英委员不到接下来是武力华那这里宣布由蔡春筹委员代理主席谢谢 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
12606.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
12617.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
好 我們請吳麗華委員上台發言謝謝主席有請何安慧城主委經濟部賴次長還有台電好 陳副總 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
12630.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
12647.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
陳如瑋是這樣因為去年我們核管法做了修正三讀之後那關於核電要不要重啟賴總統也召開記者會做出回應所以他特別提到大家不斷提到的三大原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
12648.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
12669.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
就是和安無虞 合肺有解 社會有共識另外也提到政府不排除先進核能也就是剛才大家也有提到的那種比較小面積的SMR也會持續推動能源轉型我在這邊就是要請教一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
12670.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
12697.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
就是關於這個伊朗的戰爭爆發之後很多人都呼籲說台灣必須要加速建立自主能源希望能夠有一些可掌握的比例那就是想先請教我們經濟部次長目前就是這個自主能源哪個最好自主能源的部分 太陽能 光電 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
12699.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
12717.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
所以目前認為太陽能光電最好太陽能光電它的病患的數量還有包括水利發電都是我們最主要的那請教次長因為現在大家對於太陽能光電就是有比較多的爭議發生 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
12719.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
12746.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
那像其他的呢假设离岸风电我们也发展的不错我们大概今年一估可以有5.3GW的这个病亡那是什么能源离岸风电那还有没有其他的也不错的增益比较少的是我们现在也是致力的在做这个包括海洋能小水利包括地热这些的发展 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
12747.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
12762.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
因為現在就是大家一直在講核電重啟所以呢有一點點失焦好像覺得這個自主能源的部分好像比較不重要那請教一下次長是這樣嗎不是了 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
12764.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
12781.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
反而自主能源更重要吗多元绿能是一个我们二次能源转型重要目标那刚刚委员讲说大家认为说核能重要在这个节骨眼中都有战事那我举一个数据来看的话无论是韩国或是法国 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
12782.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
12805.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
我以韓國為例的話其實它的這個核能的這個佔比是相當的高的啦那這個佔比那麼高可是它的因為這個戰事的影響那進口的油或是天然氣也造成它的這個價格的這個上漲甚至韓國政府啊還做一個所謂的油價上限的一個機制啊所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
12807.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
12832.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
這個事情並不能這樣子來進行連結所以我們現在不僅僅是能源轉型我覺得更要談的就是能源安全的戰略所以我再請教一下陳主委就是我們看到核二核三台電的廚藝計畫已經核定了請教一下廚藝許可有了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
12835.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
12864.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
還沒有除役許可還沒有好那現在台電核三再運轉計劃除役計劃有說要三月底前送件嗎所以我想請教一下這個除役許可是撤回呢還是是否就不發了還是怎麼樣這方面我想我們高處長跟委員說明那如果台電公司依法提出運轉執照換照申請那核安會就依法來進行審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
12866.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
12894.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
我們也會參考國際的做法就是美國核電廠重啟的一些管制核安會會以再運轉管制為主我想這個部分我們也必須提醒要弄清楚為了再運轉其實我們也有一個運轉執照申請審核辦法我看到裡頭也新增提到整體性老化評估實現老化分析中期安全分析輻射 耐震安全評估等等但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
12895.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
12907 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
大家現在很關心的就是軍事衝突所造成的一個系統性風險那我不曉得這個部分目前是怎麼個做法我要問台電 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
12911.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
12936.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
軍事的做法其實在核安會在去年其實在俄烏戰爭的時候它實際上有列一個管制案那我們相關的一些整備包括保安包括恐怖攻擊這一塊實際上我們有提相關的計畫核安會也開過會議那我們有做相關的所以有一個管制案所以核安會也會把這個納入去做審查跟委員說明就是有關於 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
12939.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
12962.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
軍事危機下的一些緊急應變那這部分在如果台電公司提出換照申請的時候那裡面的審查導致已經有規範那也要按照既有的法規來辦理我想這個部分大家也都很關心那另外就是關於地震危害的評估其實我覺得這個部分很多包括像我們屏東 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
12964.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
12978.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
他其實很多人都很在意這個問題那現在很重要的就是社會溝通嘛評估安全也要去做一個適宜的部分那我想這個部分不曉得說台電就這個部分會去做怎麼樣的一個報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
12981.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13003.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
有關於地質的那一塊嗎對 地震危害的評估目前我們正在依照2021年出來的所謂的機率式的地震的風險的部分在進行所謂的危害度評估然後會有把相關的風險值去對標國際上的一些要求的一個標準然後完整的報告也會送給安委審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13004.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13022.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
好所以這個部分也都有準備吧是是好那我再請教一下因為有一個處置專案的辦公室在推動低放高放的選址那我想請教一下有沒有什麼實質的進展讓我們知道一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13023.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
13040.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
目前我們廣泛的蒐集包括民間的意見包括國外的具體的做法然後甚至在去年召開跟社會的一個對談有四次的會議那我們今年也會持續進行這個工作那是跟誰對談跟民間團體關心這個事情的民間團體 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13047.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13062.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
那台電這個地方可以具體的說明嗎在低放這一塊我想委員應該很熟在達人我們去年針對達人鄉的總共他有六個部落可是他的部落會議實際上是有七個七個部落會議從 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13065.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13093.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
從南田然後一直到安朔一直到山上的幾個就是它有北山村跟南山村總共六個村有七個部落我們去年呢在每個部落都召開有所謂的低放的最終處置的說明會甚至呢我們也到南田的部落會議裡面呢去把台電未來在南田這個低放處置的部分在相關的規劃也向村民向我們的我們族人做一個說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13094.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13118.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
那委員你也很清楚就是目前來講呢因為依照低放的選址條例的部分呢必須要進行以台東縣政府進行公投那這一塊未來其實必須要配合高放選址條例的部分呢來進行低放選址條例的這個修法才有辦法有一個旋轉門萬一在台東不行在金門烏丘不行的所以還是要進行修法對不對對那為什麼我這樣關心 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
13121.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13143.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
因為要考慮到人口密度的問題所以呢我覺得選址怎麼樣可能都會找到我們的原住民族的傳統領域或地區所以我想這個部分我們很多的族人也都在關注那我想這個部分包括蘭嶼你們有提到說要有一個專用的碼頭的結構補強 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13145.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13166.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
这个进度我想因为时间的关系我希望结束之后能够给我一个说明或者说明资料那接下来我就是也想问因为赖总统他回应公投的结果说不排除先进核能嘛那现在核安会下面有一个国研院国研院今天也有来 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13167.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13189.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
因為河安會我們看到的是有從114年有投入SMR跟第四代SMR的法規跟選址但是目前國際上也沒有看到正式商轉發電的案例所以我們很想了解就是未來政府或是國內企業要做這件事情的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13189.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13207.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
他的法制面的準備進度如何那如何去克服我們地狹人仇這樣的一個選址難題跟委員說明確實SMA目前歐美國家還沒有上轉那核安會會持續去關注 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
13209.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
13226.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
SAMR的發展技術以及法規然後再來回過頭來檢視核安會的相關的法規然後再來如果有需要強化的地方我們會進行強化所以看起來現在也沒有什麼太大的進度目前我們還是在關注國際的發展趨勢 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
13228.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
13253.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
好 謝謝那最後一個問題就是想要請教一下因為我們有一個行政院國家永續發展委員會下的非核家園推動專案那我們也看到去年的3月有針對這個運作要點做了一個修訂那我在這邊就是想要請教一下經濟部台電那未來這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13254.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13281.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
我們會往哪一個方向去這樣的一個小組的運作第一個具體就這個非核家園推動的專案小組的部分去年5月17號我們最後一步核電機組提議了之後我們已經之後我們現在沒有核能發電吃吃食客也沒有所以階段性已經我們現在就是非核家園 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13282.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
13298.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
第二個部分的話針對委員所說的這個核廢料的處理儲存跟處置經濟部定場的在我們的核後端的這個委員會都有邀請學者專家來討論這個議題那除此之外的話針對於不管是 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
13299.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
13325.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
包括社會溝通包括教育宣導包括敦親募引的事項都在那個次的會議裡面會進行討論那我們也希望我們的同仁多去邀請其他關心這個議題的人跟他對話那相關的會議都是我我都親自主持啦所以有任何這部分的指教我們也非常歡迎然後我可以來跟委員做說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
13325.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
13339.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
所以這個小組是會繼續運作只是任務會有些許的改變這個部分會在我剛剛講的我們核化端的委員會裡面我們在討論這個事項所以這個小組呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
13343.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
13365.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
當然永續會的這個部分我們剛剛講的我們之前所設定的一些的目標我們都已經有階段性的一個成果好那以上我所提的這些問題我也希望說再給我一些書面資料好謝謝好我們謝謝吳立華委員請坐坐也請我們所有的官員回座 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
13377.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
13387.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
接下來是何新淳委員何新淳委員何新淳委員不在羅明財委員羅明財委員羅明財委員不在 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
13388.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
13414.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
政天才委员政天才委员政天才委员不在郑正前委员郑正前委员郑正前委员不在林建起委员林建起委员林建起委员不在谢一凤委员谢一凤委员谢一凤委员不在李燕秀委员李燕秀委员李燕秀委员不在林德福委员林德福委员林德福委员不在洪玉祥委员请 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
13424.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
13437.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
好 有請經濟部的次長台電徐永福副總好 請經濟部台電上台 謝謝委員好好 下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
13440.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
13456.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
根據我們這個再生能源發展條例第六條第一項的規定那基本上我們在再生能源我們有另外規劃就是114年它的一個發電設備的目標的總量是大概2700萬千瓦的一個綠電 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
13461.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
13477.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
那基本上來講的話我們如果統計出來的話到了114年年底的時候實際的容量大概只有2287.2萬瓦所以基本上這中間的話它差了大概412.8萬千瓦的一個缺口 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
13478.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
13495.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
這個換算下來大概70到90億度所以基本上來講大概接近一座台積電南科廠或者是半個竹科這樣子的一個缺口那以這樣子的缺口來講的話請問我們政府打算用什麼樣子的一個能源來補 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
13498.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
13518.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
事實上剛剛委員的這個數據我可能會後再請同仁跟委員接下一下這個我們掌握的數據去年的調查綠電的需求是243億度那我們的供給是446億度的電那我們今年最新的調查一本是2026年 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
13520.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
13547.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
它的需求是252億度那我們可供給的量是532億度的電無論是去年今年或是在2030年以前我們有具體的目標讓我們的綠電的供給可以滿足企業的需求那我們從幾個方向來看多元的綠能的發展比如說我們在今年離岸風電就可以併往到5.3G |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
13550.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
13574.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
而我們今年也會公布三之三的領選的方式那除此之外的話,無論是地熱、小水利或是太陽能光電,我們都有配套具體的計畫在執行之中所以我們的綠電是夠的?我們現在努力在達成我們...夠或不夠?我剛剛講的是夠的是夠的,好來,下一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
13575.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
13597.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
那基本上來講的話呢因為我們一直下修嘛就是佔20%的一個綠電一直到2022下修到15.1然後大概我們估計如果你2025大概是13.1那這個這樣子的預估到底是不是我們的一個達不到這個目標值然後一直往下修 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
13598.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
13623.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
我們訂一個比較積極的目標啦當時訂了這個積極的目標我們同仁也非常的努力叫這個目標去趕進那事實上以太陽能光電為例的話所以有很多的關注那不幸的是去年愛立法院我們修改通過了用比較嚴格的標準所以讓我們很多的太陽能這個施工中嚴格的標準並不是不好啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
13624.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
13641.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
基本上來講基本上因為你如果光電板亂設餘電工生亂搞那這些的農地等等的破壞對我們也是這個事實我們也不希望有這些狀況發生啊那所以我們太陽能光電的這個聲色啊我們不斷的優化不管是景觀或是生態的優化 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
13642.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
13664.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
甚至我們有跟華為部都有成立相關的平台的作業去遏止委員所關心的這些不正常的那我想說因為目標定了嘛我們當然是努力達成所以可能在政策的滾動修正的話基本上也要回過頭對不對去跟全國民眾再做一個比較清楚的一個說明下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
13665.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
13687.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
那因為我們在看這件事情的時候基本上來講我們也估算大概出來的話就是說照道理我們的再生能源想說是增加1.38核能降的大概差不多3.09但是這中間的話可能因為核能的停止那我的再生能源補不到將近一半 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
13688.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
13713.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
那基本上我就必須靠燃煤燃氣這種火力發電來補那這個時候會造成我們廠商一個很大的困擾也就是我的碳稅跟碳費的一個增加所以我是希望說在這一塊地方來講我們台灣當然還是希望你們努力趕上再生能源發電比例那我們也希望這個核電在核三的一個重啟安全評估之後可以如同這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
13715.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
13735.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
這個昨天我跟台電德文在談他們也期待是說那是不是可以快一點然後來補這樣的缺口當然這還是要經過核安我們的這樣子的一個檢查的一個評估那我想為什麼我會這樣談因為我們將來台灣還有很多AI的算力的中心Data的一個Center那 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
13736.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
13760.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
另外他們也都是要求我們看到那個最後那個 對就是在Google Microsoft Amazon跟Apple AMD這些來講他們可能還不只是要滿足RE簽他可能還要再往247的CF1這邊來做所以有些大廠的設置的時候可能會把這個考慮進去那這樣子可能會延緩他們的設置所以經濟部的話可能要做一個判斷 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
13761.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
13766.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
就是我到底要不要來那來了之後我這些東西要怎麼去補他們的需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
13767.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
13792.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
這個區分為兩個部分所以對於重大的這個投資不管是水電或是土地的部分其實經濟部都有定場的去做一個檢討還有包括滾動式的去談說我想不耽誤各位的時間就是最後請經濟部幫我說一個就是說現在目前用電的需求那尤其要考量到我們的AI Data Center這些國際大廠需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
13793.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
13821.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
未來的需求的成長台電有預估也在我們電力可告訴的分析裡面我們在2034年我們可以提供12.2GW的這個的電力那另外就是綠電的部分好不好再送給我一個報告好不好這個都可以滿足到我們未來的那你可以交報告出來喔好謝謝謝謝我們會提供資料給你好謝謝好謝謝洪玉祥委員的質詢官員請回座下一位有請蔡春綢委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
13840.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
13852.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
主席還有所有的同仁還有所有的官員 大家午安我們有請我們的陳主委好 請陳主委上台 謝謝現在的國際局勢 俄烏戰爭 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
13864.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
13888.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
乌克兰的核电厂很多次的面临到炮击跟断电的一个风险这给我给全球的一个敲响了核设施的一个危机那我们再来看看中东的一个急速那美国跟伊朗的关系非常的紧张直接也冲击到能源进口的一个稳定性 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
13889.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
13912.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
在這種能源供給跟不確定還有核安風險的一個提高的這樣的一個雙重的一個壓力那麼政府現在考慮要讓核酸原液重啟我要請問主委我必須要提醒你能源安全固然是很重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
13913.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
13920.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
但核能的安全管理還有核廢料的一個終極的處理是絕對不能打折的 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
13922.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
13944.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
我們也付不起這樣的一個代價我們也不能夠怕缺電然後就去賭那萬分之一的一個風險所以呢我們上週的經濟部長跟我們部長在總執行的時候有回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
13945.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
13970.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
核三長已經啟動自主的一個安全檢查如果台灣設備不多的話那麼啟用的時間可以縮短嗎那核安會在進行的一個審查過程當中以後如何來審查符合法規跟安全要件那安全是優先的前提之下那這個審查的時程有可能加快嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
13973.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
13995.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
如果需要替换的零件不多的话然后台阶准备的报告非常完整然后我们现场视察情况都很良好各方面调节都很好的话当然审查时间可以缩短那大概因为刚刚前面也都有一起 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
13996.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
14023.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
一直在問期程那如果在這樣一個條件下那主委你大概能夠有這樣的一個條件那大概我們期程會需要多久以前曾經評估過可能時間點落在2028年但是還是要看具體的檢查報告才能做最後判定 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
14025.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
14053.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
那这个还是要再有一个时间的一个等待本席再次来强调用电的需求是有时间性的而且也很急迫性本席也希望和安慰跟台电能够密切的一个合作在一个确定的安全的前提之下能够尽量快速的重启的一个过程我想这个是全民期待的 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
14054.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
14081.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
那我们的用电一定要确保是没有问题的可以吗可以的那我再请问前主委对于欧盟支委主席在本月的10月在华国巴黎召开的一个核能峰会开场的时候就说今日的一个伊兰战争显示欧洲放弃可靠的 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
14082.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
14109.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
價格合理的而且是低碳排的一個核能是一個錯誤的一個戰略那華國總理馬克宏也在這次的一個峰會他也承認核能的一個兼顧兼顧能源的主權跟脫碳的關鍵是不容忽略的那陳主委請問一下你的看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
14112.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
14131.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
核能的安全是我們核安核最關心的問題任何事情案件我們都要確保核電能夠安全我們才能讓它運作至於其他的議題能源的配比問題的話這方面是經濟部長經濟部會負責這方面的判斷 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
14139.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
14149.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
我們從這樣的一個風味來看這個核能就是全球都認為是非常非常需要的這是不能否認的吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
14150.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
14174.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
很多國家是這樣認為我覺得能源的選擇不只是電力的供給無以揚同時也要兼顧穩定跟安全更不能夠建築在一個犧牲民眾健康跟犧牲環境條件之上其實在去年的我們河山 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
14177.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
14195.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
河山研議的公投的時候其實全國的人民呢就對政府有這樣很高度的一個期待但是我們是很我們覺得很遺憾的就是我們沒有聽到那個民眾的聲音才會今天要再來做這個重啟的這樣一個計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
14199.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
14228.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
那再來呢最後我要來請教我們的賴次長賴次長我知道呢你是這個水利專家啦那在中北部呢部分的水庫呢要存水已經得到三成了 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
14229.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
14245.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
我們國人很擔心台灣的水情惡化尤其是在七、八月的時候五、六月的時候都有這個切水的一個問題我們也有科學園區還有廠商的一個反應還有擔心會切水 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
14246.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
14267.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
我們要請教賴處長你過去長期在水利署也是一個水利專家我們要請問水情如果惡化對發電的影響在今年中東戰火影響的能源供應下如果今年發生乾旱的情況對電力供應應該會有很大的衝擊 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
14273.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
14294.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
謝謝委員關心這個議題每年到枯水期的末端大家對這個問題都會有關心如委員所說的比如說我們在雲林地區我們就透過總統上個禮拜也有到這個我們現在有一個珍珠串的計畫把左幹線把它串聯起來針對於這個部分供水是有幫助的 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
14295.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
14324.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
那雲林的離島工業區有海淡廠的發生 供水是有幫忙的 至於委員你所問的這兩個問題那雖然在枯水期的末端那我們呼籲大家要節水之外 對於兩個主要的電力供應的水庫 比如說日月潭水庫跟德基水庫 我們都密切的監視它的水情的發展到目前為止 台電的備轉容量率都在有一定的部分 而且我們依照正常的排程對於水情的 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
14325.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
14334.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
變的部分我們在禮拜一經濟部也成立了應變小組那委員的指導事實上我們都會緊盯台電還有水利署去做好相關的這個準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
14337.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
14356.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
我們希望我們能夠為以籌謀不要有造成像去年那樣的這麼大的一個災害那水跟電都是民生基本的一個需求更是台灣產業尤其是高科技產業的一個必要的一個資源所以呢本席希望今天得到的 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
14358.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
14383.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
我知道剛剛大家接受到這個一個質詢我們知道大家都非常非常的努力也很盡力啦對於這個電力的供給呢大家都有在做努力那麼本期希望能夠提醒我們產業還有我們民眾很關心的民生用電都經不起一次大規模的一個限電我們希望我們大家都能夠做好準備這樣可以做到吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
14386.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
14397.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
好那謝謝大家那我今天的執行到這好謝謝蔡春秋委員請官員回座接下來有請謝龍介委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
14417.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
14443.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
主席,我請譚主委請陳主委上台,謝謝譚主委,你好我請教,我們國的婦人操作,在這個安全維修過去的在世界裡面的屏蔽,處理這麼漂亮,是不是這樣?你有沒有了解? |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
14447.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
14472.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
我好像好像是好像是喔你都不敢傾聽你這樣對我們的操作這麼年輕有一個操作惡弱一個你也這麼不敢來你是怕不怕不敢不敢猜我跟你說齁我們全台灣在這個婦人運作的過程中尤其台電訓練出來的這批人員是世界一流的第一名 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
14478.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
14504.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
我國的這個婦人操作,在全世界的屏蔽是安全來的,是三明來的,抄襲日本所以,不看歐元的規程,日本的發生婦人事件,不表示台灣的發生,我們的紀錄比他們減有很多人家說四岸的水平,為了一個非核家園的意識形態,造成到今天孫氏參黨全部關掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
14508.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
14531.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
2025達標了 中省我說2027 10月1日 老總統如果沒有重啟核電 我吃三碗牛肉麵我這一年多前就說了 因為我太了解他了2025達標了 所以現在重啟核電對西安的水平變成攏住回頭 金不還能源政策本來就是這樣 要很整理 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
14535.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
14550.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
那麼來到你這邊就是要謹慎嘛,謹慎你說台電的主柱安檢,你看科訊多如何,你們要做什麼事情,你們夫妻要做什麼事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
14554.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
14570.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
跟委員說明,那河岸會有訂一些執法跟審查導者,那審查導者是技術層面,那可以提供給台電公司去採訪。好,那這樣,你憑國,有二手有三手,要通過這個安全檢驗,當然安全是參一點就不可以麻煩,裡面都有幾項陷阱,有超過一千陷阱, |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
14582.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
14602.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
有行啦 應該有一千四百幾行 最少啦每一行裡面的安全檢測我們都不能麻煩不安全 我們就不需要這個訓練但是在這個安全規定中 你身為主管機關你知道負責任和負責任現在要通過這個安全檢測做好準備 他的規定大概要多久請你回答本席 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
14613.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
14619.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
呃,現場所需要的時間還是要由台電公司規劃我知道,就是說我告訴你,這不要吃不要,不吃吃不喝不要,你不能說你不知道嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
14622.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
14649.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
反悔你一定是有想做一個三八推演那這樣台電台台他的基金是一檔還是一檔四個月或者是一檔八個月那麼他按照行政來當然我如果跟他說什麼會有問題這樣可能會延兩個月延四十五天不定喔 就是說你的推演的基金這個台電啊是完全諾密斯全部隆重是按照規範來 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
14651.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
14654.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
最近的時間 原本您有消息多久?呃 跟委員說明喔 這還是要由台電公司現場檢測的結果來講沒有 你跟我說 那就聽不下去了 全台灣人都在聽嘛你是一個主觀機構 我一定會 譬如說 我要檢測台電的我會知道台電要做到什麼時候 我要準備什麼人員請到幾個專家去檢測什麼項目你不可能不知道 你跟我說 你都不知道 啊 全做台電 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
14680.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
14700.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
不用怕啦,我講的聽啦,大家都不想要負責任,這個時候台灣就需要負責任的人站出來,變了,我們國警就定位,國警負責再去,更給民生的壓力,專民受威壓,這個時候是做英雄的時候,你還要跟我說你不知道,很可惜耶,來,負三竅啦齁, |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
14706.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
14714.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
台電都沒有吐槽 都沒有密鎖 它全部按照零元本規範裏面有機以過久的完成核安會主席一定要確保核能安全的條件下台電徐副總請上台 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
14736.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
14763.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
原本台電的紀委書報告上傳的時候請教你你按照若是都沒有訂單都一切順利最快當然訂單有可能萬八天萬一天的我們知道嘛在你胸懷的情形下多久的時間可以完成安全檢測教委員報告齁你常常看你就會看到一條線是是是我現在常常在給你看好 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
14769.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
14780.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
基本上我們做所有的檢測跟評估都是依照美國法規,法規規定,我們叫核能法規的改善,改善我們叫斗責,1801就去做,所以它裡面有標準,有你應該怎樣來整理情緒,我Token,技術 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
14791.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
14808.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
基點 環境 材料 外圍設施所有這裡我告訴你 你們原本的基點多久委員你有了解但是現在目前我們遇到最大的變數我告訴你就是我設備 我做了以後這設備發現說我只存一天 兩天可以運轉而已不用啦 我設備 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
14813.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
14819.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
因為在古石壁的維修原本的設計是以最低標我們現在這個40噸是這樣嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
14822.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
14829.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
可是再多運轉,再運轉發覺設備的先手機可能三檔、兩檔、五檔,那與你們無關的那是針對科學設定檢測出來的設備,當然設備出來改動換了換,改動停了停這與你們無關,我現在是說你們所做可以再啟動 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
14845.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
14866.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
會安全規則切齊完成您的施政多久給我一個時間設備更新跟更換其實是我主要是我在台中要做的因為我的員工都要運轉我的眷屬也是都要送我嘛所以那部分 但是委員你說 比如說我訂一個名額來 那部分不是你可以可控的啦 來那部分算了 那部分如果正常這樣多久 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
14874.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
14887.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
現在依照目前市場的行情,因為現在世界可能大家都在搶我講簡單講,一個安全的Motor就下單,下單我們當然要給它收起,它最沒業力,你一定要找到它那有些外國人對聯繫幫就大了 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].start |
14899.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].end |
14923.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].text |
我總是要檢測啊 因為我聽莫大爺的訴求到底有夠不夠你有跟共營商先報告說我們台灣已經重新啟動核能安全檢測嗎?我有你告解 我有你告解我們有同敵商商嗎?有同敵共營商嗎?目前我們不是說同敵 我們有來巡查OK 好來 剛才我講的這個基礎如果都正常的話你們整個會有多久? |
| transcript.whisperx[567].start |
14926.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].end |
14929.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].text |
要兩檔半 第二三十個月沒有兩檔半 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].start |
14932.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].end |
14957.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].text |
我跟大家說,我們做檢測的目標來看,我們是要可能要一年多、兩年多去做檢測通常在檢測裡面沒有包含就說我檢測結果出來以後...所以18個月至24個月你是原本的設定檢測期啦對...那麼有部分需要改建,部分需要精修,部分需要重新來的這就不是在你預測的期間裡面所以你... |
| transcript.whisperx[569].start |
14960.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].end |
14966.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].text |
十八個月至二十四個月的規定中若是這幾天可以恢復一年來恢復所以這樣就是兩年多至三年 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].start |
14968.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].end |
14990.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].text |
歐洲的福林發電可以中心契用 最近台電這麼差 所有安全檢測過所以應該就是在那兩年半至三年可以中心發電 我說這樣有夠精準嗎看安全的檢測結果對啦 安全檢測我就要講的就符合你的標準嘛 如果你說的3萬就2年嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].start |
14993.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].end |
15007.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].text |
每次兩年我給你抓兩年嘛,所以我們未來就是兩年每次三年,我們的福林發展可以重新開放,我說這樣有接近事實嗎?不不,還要我心臟的規定的時間,你要給他啊當然啦,他心臟,你怎麼做他就怎麼給你看嘛,不然我再跟你說,誰人做誰人的,你就做得都好,我再對前面來看 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].start |
15016.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].end |
15036.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].text |
我希望 和安會不能這樣啦因為這本來就可以分級檢測通過的東西 後面才有SOB的維修去做你不能說我全部 你當我都做好你還要再來 我跟你說這樣來拖差不多10個月至14個月啦 沒必要拜託 和安會這邊有聽到台電的訴求嗎有嘛 所以 董事 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].start |
15042.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].end |
15056.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].text |
補分完成,30%完成你就要補,40%完成就要補,50%完成就要補,讓他們先來給你看,看一看之後,他有一個安全的標準作業流程,照這樣來,到你做100%的時候,他後來來看就快了,這樣有可能就不用兩年半了喔,加油啦,大家作為朋友好不好? |
| transcript.whisperx[574].start |
15070.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].end |
15096.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].text |
謝謝謝龍介委員的質詢請官員回座今天最後一位質詢的委員有請蔡易瑜委員謝謝主席那我們是不是有請經濟部次長還有能源署跟台電 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].start |
15098.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].end |
15114.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].text |
好請三個機關代表上台謝謝阿維好市長好市長這個我們現在國內對於所謂地熱發電的研究那主要都遍佈在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].start |
15115.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].end |
15133.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].text |
基本上我們現在調查出來15個潛力區啊大部分都集中在新北宜蘭還有台東花蓮這些的地區那還有一個委員的故鄉嘉義的部分就知道好像是東中埔 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].start |
15134.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].end |
15162.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].text |
中埔對對對你有說到我要問的大案啦就是說中埔它事實上它就是叫做中輪啦中輪這一條這一個背極層它跟關子嶺事實上是同脈的一個地熱那它事實上在過去那有幾個專家學者都認為這個中埔在這邊事實上是很適合去發展地熱的那它有 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].start |
15164.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].end |
15179.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].text |
過幾個研究認為說他只要開挖到了差不多在在這個3公里的左右的話他的溫度可以到150度那開挖到了甚至到 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].start |
15181.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].end |
15197.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].text |
這個1000公尺的話大概是有70度到了3000公尺就3公里的話可以到150度所以這個溫度事實上是足夠可以去支撐這一個發展地熱那在去年11月 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].start |
15199.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].end |
15225.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].text |
114年11月11號那中油的碳採事業部事實上也針對這個中浦鄉在雲水國小在竹頭旗段400之一號他們有去做一個專測那這個專測的結果他們認為說在於這樣的深度之下基本上適合去開挖溫泉甚至會再往下的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].start |
15226.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].end |
15231.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].text |
會有更大的一個地熱的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].start |
15233.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].end |
15261.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].text |
可能性那所以我認為啦既然這樣一個先進的能源那又這麼的有有潛力的話經濟部應該要開始著手然後去救這樣新能源的開發而且這個是非常充沛的一個地熱的一個所在地是不是經濟部可以在這方面就可以開始規劃去進行去至少就可行的目前已經有可行的幾份報告那是不是可以開始著手去去做這樣的一個研究呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].start |
15262.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].end |
15277.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].text |
沒有問題 謝謝委員關心地熱的這個發展雖然說我們現在發展地熱的地方如我剛剛所報告的區域但事實上如委員所說中原地區還有包括西部 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].start |
15278.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].end |
15303.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].text |
這個陸三代包括成大的一些的老師都認為有相當的潛能那委員執教的部分我會請我們地管中心還有包括中友的部分來去評估看看有沒有可能有更大的潛能的規模還有永續的這個地熱的這個產生這個運用的可能性如果地熱是要從事真的從事下去投資的話是中友會主導嗎還是台電會主導 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].start |
15305.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].end |
15333.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].text |
我們現在希望國營事業先行那當然除了國營事業之外很多的民間也表示有這個意願那我們也鼓勵地方政府假設說他適合去發展低熱的話我們也給地方政府獎勵金那除此之外的話廠商在申請低熱的時候我們還給他相關的補助那主要是要讓他去風險化我舉一個例子來講 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].start |
15334.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].end |
15356.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].text |
地熱它的初期的投資很大但有時候著下去有就有很好可能就發現有緣一樣一直源源不斷但是假如著不到那些的所有的損失我們要把它彌平所以我們現在請地礦中心包括台電跟中油的部分因為前期的探勘很重要是啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].start |
15356.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].end |
15380.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].text |
碳勘只要建立的綿密的話就可以減少失敗取不到熱源的這種風險當然因為這個下次投資就是不少的預算嘛所以這個規劃就很重要碳勘跟規劃所以事實上我今天就是希望經濟部在這個碳勘的部分可以加到力道趕快去做好這個規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].start |
15381.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].end |
15401.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].text |
那未來就只要招商希望民間或者是地方政府我們一起來投入這樣的一個低熱的一個開發的話總是我們希望成功率可以更高啊是啊好不好所以我們還是希望經濟部在前期的這個賺攤的部分可以再綿密一些這樣可以嗎好 沒有問題好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].start |
15404.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].end |
15430.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].text |
好 謝謝蔡議員請官員回座今天登記質詢的委員均已發言完畢那另外有楊瓊英委員提出書面質詢那委員所提的書面質詢或相關資料均列入紀錄刊登公報那對於委員質詢要求提供相關資料或未及答覆的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].start |
15431.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].end |
15443.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].text |
请相关机关尽速以书面答复那报告及询答完毕那今日议程处理完毕现在散会谢谢各位 |