| IVOD_ID |
17241 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17241 |
| 日期 |
2026-01-29 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-23-15 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期交通委員會第15次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
15 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
23 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
交通委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期交通委員會第15次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2026-01-29T08:33:56+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-01-29T12:12:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
03:38:04 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/f826c2e4afc302ddd600d02e1221ac870727f43dd4a521b7e692bdb9a1e47977d193bd57ea61aa105ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-01-29T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期交通委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查(一)行政院函請審議、(二)委員蔡其昌等19人、(三)委員賴惠員等23人、(四)委員李昆澤等18人、(五)委員洪孟楷等20人、(六)委員林倩綺等23人及(七)委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人分別擬具「發展觀光條例部分條文修正草案」案、(八)委員牛煦庭等16人擬具「發展觀光條例第二條、第四十二條之一及第五十五條條文修正草案」案及(九)委員廖先翔等18人擬具「發展觀光條例增訂第六十六條之一條文草案」案。
二、邀請交通部部長就「115年度交通部及所屬單位預算未審竣對桃園鐵路地下化、花東地區鐵路雙軌電氣化、嘉義市區鐵路高架化、嘉義縣市鐵路高架化延伸、臺南市區鐵路地下化、觀光雙輪驅動方案等計畫及各單位業務各項交通建設推動之影響」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
【本次會議僅進行詢答；開會事由一第(一)案及第(六)案至第(九)案如經院會復議，則不予審查】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:33:56 - 12:12:00 |
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1605.868 |
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好現在開會出席委員已足法定人數現在開會請議事人員宣讀上次會議議事錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1615.765 |
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1641.112 |
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立法院第十一屆第四會期交通委員會第十四次全體委員會議議事錄時間115年1月5日星期一上午9時至下午1時18分地點本院紅樓201會議室出席委員洪孟凱等15人列席委員鐘嘉賓等11人列席官員行政院公共工程委員會主任委員陳金德等主席洪昭吉委員孟凱報告事項宣讀上次會議議事錄決定議事錄確定 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1642.572 |
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1654.396 |
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邀請行政院公共工程委員會主任委員等就公告修正政府採購法以求精進政府採購效率提高重大工程進度品質獨覺遏制廠商投標可能進行專題報告並被質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1657.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1678.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
討論事項審查政府採購法修正草案等二十案本日會議由委員王宏威說明提案要持由行政院公共工程委員會主任委員陳金德報告後繼由委員洪孟凱等十九人提出質詢據經行政院公共工程委員會主任委員陳金德等相關人員分別予以答覆決議一報告及詢答完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1678.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1694.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
二 委員優浩等二人所提書面質詢均列入記錄並刊登公報三 委員於執行中要求提供相關書面資料或未及答覆部分請行政院公共工程委員會及相關機關競訴以書面答覆四 討論事項個案均另定期繼續審查散會宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1707.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1732.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
請問在場委員對一絲路有沒有意見沒有意見一絲路確定現在介紹在場的委員洪孟凱 張維廖先祥委員現在介紹列席官員交通部陳世凱部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1735.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1762.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
路政及盜安司吳東林司長公共運輸及監理司胡迪奇司長會計處黃宏文處長法制處許宏達處長觀光署陳玉秀署長鐵道局楊振軍局長公路局 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1763.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1786.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
林福山局長民航局何淑萍局長中央氣象署呂國成署長運燃所黃欣勳所長航港局葉協榮局長台鐵公司鄭光源董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1788.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1815.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
行政院交通環境資源處圖靜妮參議內政部民政司黃淑黃專門委員戴淑黃不好意思國土管理署國土計畫組檢任視察曾立儀都市計畫組政工程師蔡婉容 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1821.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1842.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
國防部作戰及計畫參謀次次長室作戰整備處吳東達處長文化部文化資產局游英俊專門委員經濟部商業發展署公司登記組蕭旭東組長華澳部謝志敏參事 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1849.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
1860.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
司法院行政訴訟及懲戒廳林靜超法官海洋委員會海域安全處黃鵬偉專門委員金管會保險局產險監理組王啟華副組長袁柱銘 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
1874.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
1886.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
援助民主委員會經濟發展處王瑞銀處長行政院主計總處基金預算處戴群芳專門委員公務預算處曾益聖專門委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
1895.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
1918.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
本日會議進行發展觀光條例修正草案之審查及115年度交通部及所屬單位預算為省郡對桃園鐵路地下化花東地區鐵路雙軌電氣化嘉義市區鐵路高架化嘉義縣市鐵路高架化延伸台南市區鐵路地下化觀光雙輪驅動方案等計畫及 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
1921.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
1936.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
各單位業務各項交通建設推動之影響專題報告我們現在先請提案委員說明提案要旨首先請洪孟凱召委 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
1946.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
1973.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
好 主席各位同仁以及我們在場的政府官員感謝本期提案修法發展觀光條例的部分條文其實是在現在台灣觀光正面臨關鍵的轉型期經營形態越來越多元的情況現行法規應該要與時俱進才能落實永續發展跟保障顧客與旅客的權益也因此幾個部分要跟大家緊要說明第一 我們希望能夠讓增進觀光的內涵 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
1975.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2003.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
把觀光工廠過去一直都是被經濟部工廠法所下管理但是我們全台灣100多個觀光工廠其實觀光才是重點而能夠讓大家有更進一步的觀光內涵這才是我們希望能夠推廣的一個地方也因此在修法的內容裡面第二條把觀光工廠也納入觀光地區裡面讓中央主管機關能夠來評估同意提供 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2004.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2010.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
觀光旅客來所謂的觀光地區二 落實數位治理 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2011.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2036.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
目前觀光統計資料都散落在各處缺乏明確的法源依據來整理也因此本席提案修正第六條希望民定中央主管機關有權請求提供統計資訊才能夠有完整的數據基礎以做後續的精準行銷把公共服務送到真正需要的地方再來我們提升行政彈性以及整合推廣 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2037.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2063.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
首先針對第十條有兩個部分調整一個是把風景特定區的管理組織修正為機關或是機構符合目前國家級風景區的管理處行政現況另外我們也希望把原有的福島修正為配合推廣觀光絕對不是單打獨鬥透過法規的引導讓各部會能夠有效的整合資源共同打響台灣觀光的品牌 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2064.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2080.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
以及最後是希望能夠保障旅客的權益31條裡面責任保險的部分實務上我們發現理賠往往需要旅行社協助參與提供參團的證明或是事故調查文件但是如果說業者消極的處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2081.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2104.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
旅客的理賠往往就會卡住過去也屢屢發生過類似的案例也因此特別增訂第五項明確要求旅行社如果說在觀光事故發生之後三個月內應該要向保險公司提出申請把這一項義務入法不要讓受害的旅客面對意外的時候還要因為程序的繁瑣而苦等不到賠償 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2105.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2118.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
最後本期也要為我們在場的廖縣長委員來再說一下他的增訂66條之一其實也是為我們新北市以及相關地區各縣市如果說有這個觀光 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2120.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2142.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
觀光發展的一個企圖能夠有做永續的基金的一個規劃的時候需要有母法跟子法的一個依據目前各縣市有些地方已經有做這個相關子法但缺乏母法的一個保障還是有摯愛難行之處也因此我們也希望配合不管是新北市不管是各縣市只要有意推動觀光 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2143.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2165.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
有意能夠提升觀光的一個內涵跟精進的話我想中央部會應該也要大力支持中央地方一條心才能共同的讓台灣觀光被世界看見這次的修法是建立更好的產業秩序更建立一個讓旅客安心業者有彈性的觀光環境後續審議的時候我們也希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2166.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2184.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
行政部門能夠開誠布公大家一條一條的針對專業來做好好的審查我們希望能夠讓台灣觀光建立更完善的法律基礎以上謝謝謝謝洪孟海召委說明完畢現在請廖先祥委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2196.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2212.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
主席 謝謝主席這次本人針對發展觀光條例66條之一提出修法最主要的原因是新北市議會在去年提出了新北市天生知識條例的一個這個法案的擬定那送來中央 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2213.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2238.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
在內政部以及法務部的同仁都認定這樣子的一個裡面自治條例裡面的一個收費他不屬於規費而是屬於特別功課而在特別功課裡面他就必須要有一個母法的一個支持那也就是我今天提出這一次的修訂的一個最主要的一個原因那修法的一個精神就在於大家都知道現在使用者付費大家都越來越有這樣子的一個觀念但是公 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2239.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2261.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
規費跟特別功課的差別在於規費他是一個大水庫的一個理論那特別功課他比較有專款專用的一個性質他能夠針對特別的一個行為來設立一個特別的一個來收入特別的預算來做這個特定的一個支出那也就是說我們在想像一個如果說我們在做公關發展的時候天然發展的時候那他 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2261.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2271.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
勢必大家過去常常提到一些環保或者是人民財產損失的一些問題的時候他可以利用這一筆特別功課的一個基金來做特應的支出而不是說這筆光光的一個發展的費用他後續產生了一些額外的 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2277.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2304.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
這個外部成本是由全體的納稅人用共和的稅收來支應我想這是對於全體的納稅人也有稍微不公平的地方因此這次提出這次的修法那希望說在地方發展觀光的同時地方政府也必須朝永續發展的角度來邁進當我們要永續發展的時候就必須要針對我們的環境或者是產生的第三方這個成本的時候或產生公害的時候政府也要 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2305.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2330.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
專門的預算來應付這些支出那反這次的修法是針對新北市的天然自治條例來提出一個母法的一個支持那當然我相信這樣的一個法令的制定未來不會只有新北市天然自治條例會適用到而是各地的觀光產業都可以因應他們當地因地制宜所產生的一些自己本身發現的問題來訂定自治條例來永續各地方的觀光發展以上好 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2334.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2339.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
謝謝廖先祥委員說明完畢現在請列席機關報告請交通部陳士凱部長報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2351.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2376.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
主席各位委員各位女士先生今天應邀至貴委員會就發展觀光條例草案以及一百一十五年度交通部以及所屬單位預算為省郡對桃園鐵路地下化花東地區鐵路雙軌電氣化嘉義市區鐵路高架化嘉義縣市鐵路高架化延伸台南市區鐵路地下化 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2377.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2397.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
觀光雙輪驅動方案等計畫以及各單位業務各項交通建設推動之影響進行專案報告敬請各位委員指教本部為因應全球永續觀光趨勢以及友善觀光環境強化消費者權益優化觀光產業經營環境以協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2400.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2418.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
產業新立健全新興油氣管理並保護生態以及配合相關法令的變遷辦理通盤檢討並且研擬本條例的這個部分修正草案經行政院115年1月8號函請大院審議 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2422.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2445.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
令本部所屬一百一十五年度預算編列一千六百九十四億元各項預算均系配合本部業務推動核實編列為預算到目前為止並未審議新興計畫以及延續計畫新增的部分皆無法執行本次會議委員所關切的延續性計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2450.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2465.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
因為只可以在於上年度的預算執行數或者是當年度的預算編列數兩者相較之下以較低者範圍合值來致用那預算的執行將會有所的局限 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2466.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2487.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
本部一百一十五年度延續性的支出較上年度的支出超過的部分有兩百四十八億目前看起來是無法來執行對於相關的鐵路建設以及觀光業務的推動影響甚巨懇請大院緊速交付審查以利各項工作順利的推動以上兩岸 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2488.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2503.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
我請觀光署陳署長以及本部會計處黃處長就其相關的內容重點向各位委員來報告敬請各位委員會與支持以及指教 謝謝來 請陳玉秀署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2515.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2534.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
主席 各位委員 各位女士 各位先生今天應邀列席貴文會就行政院涵送大院審議的發展觀光條例部分條文的修正草案提出重點報告這次修正的重點包含了因應全球永續觀光趨勢及友善觀光環境 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2535.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2552.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
第二個是強化消費者權益第三個是優化觀光產業經營環境以協助產業的心力第四個是健全新興油氣管理並保護生態最後一個是配合相關法令的變遷總共20條修正了19條 更刪除1條那現行條例 現行大概77條修正後變76條 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2560.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2577.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
那另外是針對蔡維園 蔡其昌委員 賴委員 李昆澤委員還有洪孟凱委員 林慶琦委員跟鄭天才委員等等還有劉委員總共有八案提出本部建議處理的意見也供各位參裁 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2579.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2605.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
接下來是針對第一個項目因應全球永續觀光發展及友善觀光環境總共修正第一條 第六條第一項 第八條第一項及第十條第一條是針對修正我們剛剛上面提到的推展永續觀光友善觀光環境加速國家發展的立法目的第六條第一項是增電的觀光資訊取得的依據第八條是針對於 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2606.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2624.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
在增訂的中央主管機關得與機場及車站設置旅客服務機構及設施第十條是有提到將機構修正為機關跟機構那修正均配合主管機關辦理的觀光宣傳及推廣 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2625.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2648.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
第二个是强化消费者权益这个部分也是明定的旅行业者因与事故发生后三个月内向保险公司申请责任保险理赔那第43条第一款资历旅行业之保证金有备行政执行机关扣押或执行情势可由中央机关公告之 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2649.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2671.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
那第三大項是優化觀光產業經營環境以協助產業新力那修正第二條第11款第33條第42條第一項第48條第66條那在第二條第11款因觀光遊樂業經營型態之多元創新所以我們增列了及相關服務項目 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2672.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2694.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
第33條第66條也因為旅行業經營模式已經改變所以我們希望引進多元的人才需求刪除了旅行業經理人資格限制回歸到公司治理第42條第一項是簡化了暫停營業這行政程序第48條是增列旅行業為觀光產業優惠貸款的對象 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2698.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2718.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
第四大項是健全新興油氣管理並保護生態修正第63條、64條那63條是增列風景區或觀光地區內擅自放置器具並提高違規行為的法源並增列了清除跟沒入 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2719.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2742.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
那第六四條是增進風險區內跟觀光地區內其他動力的器具那比如說像沙灘車等動力並提高其違規的行為之法則那第五大項調合相關法規及完備法制修正的第十一條第二項第二十八條第四十七條五十八條六十九條第七十條並刪除第二十條 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2744.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2760.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
那這個部分的第11條第2項第47條呢都是增訂適用國土計畫法相關規定22條呢是針對已經古蹟有文化資產保存法所以不需要重複的規範的必要所以願意刪除第28條呢是 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2763.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2782.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
就是配合公司法已經廢除外國公司許可制度全部修正為外國旅行業者在我國事例分公司或辦事處的相關規定那第58條是將本條例授權訂定相關法規的依據予以明定 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2783.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2799.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
那第69條是因為是過度條款已於申請期限並且無保留的必要所以刪除第70條是為確保觀光旅館公共安全所以應依觀光旅館建築及設備標準辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2801.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2824.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
那接下來報告有關委員們提案的修正重點及本部建議處理的意見那第一個是針對洪孟楷委員等二十人針對觀光工廠那剛剛特別委員特別提到那因為觀光工廠呢雖然是觀光的附加服務那但是因為他從事的還是屬於生產製造及加工本質是工廠 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2825.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2853.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
那經由是由經濟部依工廠管理輔導法來管理那管理權責的就是避免跌床駕屋所以我們希望管理權責還是在經濟部那這個部分一旦立法是在技術上面恐掛一漏萬那我們現在目前就是依照觀光地區基本上它還是有它的明定範圍所以我們是認為說不需要再額外列舉觀光工廠的必要 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2854.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2874.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
那現在目前觀光署跟經濟部也密切的合作整合觀光的資源像我們這個月也剛公佈的是像AO像AI小幫手或者是我們行動旅服都已經把觀光工廠都納入未來也可以一起做整合的行銷所以這個部分我們建議是維持現在的條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2875.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
2900.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
那第二個是有關鄭天才委員提出來的將原住民保留地及山地管制區得以化設自然人文生態景觀地區刪除那我們考量到原住民的保留地山地管制區已經涵蓋了應受保護之自然動物動植物生態環境及重要史前的遺跡 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
2902.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
2911.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
那有化射自然人文景觀的必要例如像霧台自然人文生態景觀區所以本部建議是維持現行的條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
2914.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
2942.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
第三個提案是賴委員這邊的提案修正觀光工廠定義及刪除觀光旅館等級的區分那這個部分我們考量外界的觀感不要讓台灣就是讓外界覺得台灣不再有國際級的景觀所以修法後對現有業者的影響那我們建議維持國際觀光旅館跟一般觀光旅館的類別其實是較為妥適所以我們覺得不需要再 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
2943.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
2971.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
無需將觀光旅館建築及設備標準納入要件原以第21條第23條均無修正的必要建議維持現行的條文那第4個是牛西廷委員的提案旅宿訂房平台的服務業那旅宿訂房平台就是代定像OTA平台那針對主計總處行業統計分析它是屬於支援服務業 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
2972.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
2993.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
旅行及相关服务业设本条例属于旅行业的范畴那且国内的订房平台都已经依照公司法登记并领有旅行业营业执照所以本部也建议维持现行的条文那蔡企专委员呢等19人提案是增 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
2994.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3019.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
新增第三條第二項本條例試射跨部會的權責實質處理方式那有助落實觀光主流化本部原則同意也尊重了委員審議的結果第六個是蔡啟昌等19名委員還有像賴委員20名就是多數委員都有提到這個部分有關中央主管機關的權責 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3020.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3044.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
那本條府經大院委員提案修正也已經在114年度4月2號修正公佈且交通部觀光署組織法已經明令觀光署全責本部也建議維持現行的條文那第七個是李昆澤委員等18人提案的項目就是有關行政院召開觀光產業發展匯報 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3047.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3058.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
那這個部分現在目前由行政院觀光產業振興諮詢會已經具備了跨部會的協調功能那目前有行政院副院長或者是政務員層級專責督導並協調各部會推動觀光相關的業務那我們也 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3064.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3091.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
已經有符合彈性政府跟組織精簡的現代治理的原則本部也建議無需要增訂最後一個是有關賴委員的第八個是賴委員提案有關旅行業一線請求事故責任保險給付的義務那委員基本上都是站在提升消費者權益之保護目的是一致的 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3094.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3116.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
所以這個部分我們盡量避免 就是請求全人於事故發生三個月後 使得直接向保險人請求保險給付之誤解所以原則上支持鄭委員的提案 那尊重委員的審議結果第九個是有關牛錫廷委員提案的是有關 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3120.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3138.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
旅宿资讯揭露义务及涨价比例那现行的法规已经有规范的旅宿业资讯揭露的义务已经明载了旅行旅馆业民宿之就是说目前他们都必须要载明旅行旅馆业跟民宿之登记的 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3140.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3168.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
正號編號那第二個呢是有關因為房價客房的房價須報請主管機關備查那業者報備的最高主管的公告價公告價呢在臺灣的旅宿網提供消費者查詢所以明年旅宿業收取房價不得高於備查的房價那為者可以可以處處罰一萬到五萬元所以眾上所述我們也建議說無需要再增訂 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3169.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3196.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
那第十項是由賴委員等二三人提案的是提高違規行為的罰原額度那這是屬於共通性的罰則那我們認為說違反本條之裁罰案件極為少數所以在實務的管理上並沒有看到困難或者是不足之處也符合責罰相當的原則所以本部建議維持現行的條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3198.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3211.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
那第十一條是牛委員 西庭等十六人提案的部分也是希望提高違規行為的法源額度那這個也是屬於共通性的法則 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3213.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3231.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
所以我們也看到說目前觀點上也比較沒有看到任何的困難或者是不足的地方所以如果以原最高的法則修正為修正後最低的法則可能有比例原則跟責罰相當的原則所以我們也是建議維持現行的條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3233.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3248.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
那廖先祥委員提案的有關在特定觀光活動或相關業者徵收觀光永續發展費並設立基金的法源依據那這個部分是希望增訂的觀光永續發展費 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3250.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3268.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
此在落實法原並落實觀光活動使用者付費其性質應屬規範法之使用規範現行法規也可以原引本條所規定的觀光活動因為比較沒有很明確的定義 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3269.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3290.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
比如說包含未來有可能像體育、宗教、生態活動跟文化活動都可能包含在內那如果說這個部分由交通部統一研議徵收管理的事宜難以因應多元的活動需求其亦跟目前各機關有的規費跟特別功課規範產生漢格甚至引發地方政府觀光活動 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3292.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3306.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
為民任意納入課費的徵印所以令本條永續觀光永續發展費呢用途基本上也包含了自然生態與環境的保育文化資產保存公共 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3307.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3327.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
公共安全的維護已經超過本條例的規範的範疇所以依照本條例授權地方政府訂定自治條例恐怕有逾越謀法的之餘所以依政策目的與地方現況因地制於訂定規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3328.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3345.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
我們認為還是比較允當那希望建議說不要 無需增訂那最後一個是賴委員提出來的有關觀光遊樂業設施之過渡條款那因為過渡條款的期限已經也過了所以本部原則上同意綜商說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3348.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3375.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
綜上說明行政院版本提出來的修正草案已經因應了永續觀光發展條例也藉此營造我們友善的觀光環境將永續觀光跟友善觀光環境納入那希望就此這個部分可以優化整個觀光產業的環境跟鬆綁心力的措施以達成2030年觀光產業兆元產值公政策的目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3377.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3393.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
以上請各位予以支持那也委員提出來的部分都是為了觀光產業發展有正向的政策目標那也非常感謝委員們的提案那以上僅就本部建議處理的建議呢也請委員們多採納 謝謝陳署長報告完畢現在請會計處黃處長 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3406.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3419.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
主席 各位委員先生女士 那個本次會議委員所關切的營運計畫 因為僅能在上年度預算執行數或者是當年度預算編列數較低者的範圍內核實之用 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3421.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3438.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
所以對我們相關的鐵路建設觀光業務推動產生重大的影響重點說明如下 意義是鐵道局的鐵道及捷運建設計畫115年度預算較上年度增加134億元主要是因桃園鐵路地下化 花東地區鐵路雙軌電氣化 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3440.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3467.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
嘉義市區鐵路高架化及台南市區鐵路地下化等各項建設已進入工程施作高峰期且嘉義縣市鐵路高架化延伸建設亦陸續辦理工程發包施工 其需一約撥付各項工程款項 依然未能完成審議導致工程款項無法正常撥付嚴重影響後續工程施工及計畫延遲 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3468.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3484.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
尤其是已經施作的高風險工項 包括地下結構開挖 延續壁橋樑軌道曲線及基樁改善林軌側 擋土牆等工程恐因未能接續 衍生嚴重結構安全及施工品質疑慮 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3485.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3501.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
亦有違約私信與廠商 治理約正義等情形 影響企業推動 二 觀光署觀光雙輪驅動方案 本方案115年度編列35億元 旨在透過政策性引導擴大國旅及國際旅客來台市場 以帶動 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3503.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3517.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
內需市場及相關產業商機若未能如期115年及早啟動恐錯失活絡觀光市場之契機進而無法有效帶動旅宿餐飲及零售等相關成業發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3518.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3543.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
除外地方經濟活絡及削弱臺灣觀光產業國際競爭力3 本部對台鐵公司營運及安全改善協助115年度預算較上年度編列增加64億元主要是其為持續推協助台鐵公司強化安全作為辦理撥補台鐵營運虧損及提升行車安全作為之補貼台鐵積極支線基礎設施改善計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3547.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3560.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
高鐵暫化站及台鐵轉成接駁計畫高雄機場潮州基地二期工程建設計畫及台鐵軌道結構安全提升計畫等預算未能完成審議將影響工程履約進度及計畫約定目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3562.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3579.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
而且恐造成台鐵財務負擔 進而影響行車安全及旅客服務品質本部115年度各項預算 據那實際業務需求核實編列 攸關施政延續性及計畫如期執行 懇請大院盡速交付審查 必力各項工作順利推動 謝謝其餘機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3590.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3613.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
所送書面報告均列入記錄 刊登公報現在開始進行詢答初期委員8分鐘 列席委員6分鐘委員發言登記於10點30分截止各委員如有臨時提案 請於10點前提出 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3614.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3625.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
以便醫事人員會診暫定10點30分休息10分鐘現在請登記第一位洪孟楷召委發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3640.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3642.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
好 主席謝謝 麻煩請陳部長還有我們觀光署陳署長請陳部長及陳署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3653.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3669.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
部長好部長本席開宗明義先強調我認為說全台灣大家交通建設都應該要建立生活圈讓交通更方便這是我們共同目標交通沒有最好只有更好但是現在本席看到跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3671.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3699.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
交通部長跟前任部長我們賀承鄧部長也報導直接寫說前交長槓現任那期待公開的討論我不知道說這個陳部長你有沒有感覺到跟前任的部長有這個對槓隔空對槓的感覺完全沒這個感覺完全沒有但我感覺你們沒有在聚焦因為賀承鄧前部長他講的是所謂宜蘭高鐵的一個部分那也講到是說其實現在的鐵道局並沒有把 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3699.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3725.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
所謂的宜蘭直鐵台鐵的一個規劃納入這個評估考量所以可行性評估會變成是一個很龐大的一個建設但是可能偉大甩不掉而且並沒有辦法解決宜蘭人通勤或者是說往返台北的需求那不要說前部長跟現任部長互槓張景深前政委他在他的臉書你有沒有看 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3726.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3750.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
我沒有仔細看到你沒有看到臉書但是行政院院長說他每一篇的臉書都有看所以很顯然我們部長比院長還要更公務繁忙不過這也不是重點重點在於是說行政院院長就講是說我沒有加他好友所以你沒有加好友那沒有問題但是行政院院長講是說他都把張景深政委的意見轉達給我們交通部部長陳士凱 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3752.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3765.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
那來 請教一下現在既然院長也已經交辦給你了那賀成旦直接在不是 張景生直接在他的臉書上講說宜蘭高鐵會是史詩級災難四千億解決不了交通問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3767.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3783.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
部長怎麼回應報告委員其實高鐵跟紙鐵的這個議題紙鐵的議題已經討論差不多有一二十年的時間並不是說這個議題沒有拿出來討論我想賀成部長應該也相當的清楚因為我現在在問張景生張景生說史詩級災難並且張景生講說民進黨的高官們都紛紛私下跟他講說 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3790.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3812.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
張謹申政委你說的對宜蘭高鐵不可行我不曉得是哪些高官們跟他說但是當時在決定從直鐵轉換為高鐵的過程當中張謹申前政委當時長期在行政院擔任政務委員他應該也很清楚整個過程為什麼他會說他不了解這個我就不曉得不是 他沒有說他不了解他直接講說這是史詩級災難 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3814.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3831.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
所以現在是怎樣在民進黨政府裡面當官的人都不能講真話那辭官之後退休了無事一聲清就可以真話就滿天飛包委員我覺得鐵路的建設包含您很關心的您選區裡面的一些輕軌建設等等這些都是很專業的討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3832.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
3852.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
我相信專業啊所以我現在才想請教張景生也好或是說前交通部長賀承旦也好現在都講出來說認為說這是不可行沒有辦法解決問題我開宗明義講是說我們全台各縣市的人都有資格有最好的交通品質但是怎麼樣做那現在就變成是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
3853.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
3878.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
大家認為是花了四千億沒有辦法解決問題而且甚至連民進黨的宜蘭縣長候選人在他臉書上貼說要支持宜蘭高鐵下面都有很多支持者講啊都在臉書上講是說他支持他我是民進黨支持者但是我反對宜蘭高鐵那就代表是說政府的決策跟現在宜蘭人的想法訴求可能是有落差的啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
3878.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
3901.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
來 部長我所看到的宜蘭縣議會大部分的民意代表其實是支持宜蘭高鐵的方案宜蘭的立法委員也表達過他支持宜蘭高鐵的方案甚至宜蘭縣政府其實也有表達過他們支持宜蘭高鐵的方案所以前交通部長賀承旦的聲音或是前政委張景深的聲音 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
3902.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
3928.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
他們不重要還是說他們就不夠專業他們的聲音我們都很重視他們也都在政府部門做過事所以應該很清楚政府部門在做這些決策的過程當中有很嚴謹而且專業的討論過程就是因為這樣所以說本席才好奇說為什麼會有那麼大的落差來 不好意思那個鄭董事長台鐵鄭董事長我知道因為您之前這個腳受傷特別請教不過我就請教您一個專業的問題因為我覺得在現場您真的很有資格發個言 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
3933.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
3941.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
過去您是高鐵的董事長現在是台鐵的董事長本席不是要給你陷阱題您放心但是本席很認真的要請教 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
3942.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
3963.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
過去高鐵評估說所謂的宜蘭高鐵或是說現在有人講是說如果宜蘭可以直鐵讓台鐵用新的自強號普悠瑪或是更好的這個列車來服務能夠有比較低的成本但是能夠快速的服務讓宜蘭人能夠也有很快速整點多班次的一個交通工具 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
3964.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
3980.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
您覺得哪一個方案會是你站在有擔任過高鐵董事長跟台鐵董事長兩個評估那你現在台鐵董事長您覺得咧有沒有再更重啟或是討論的空間而不是像現在一味的就講說不管什麼聲音我就是高鐵我就是要硬幹到底 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
3981.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4002.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
我覺得目前的這個規劃的方向應該是我是贊成的就是說高鐵 讓高鐵直接到宜蘭去這樣的話呢整個我們高鐵目前的這個好的品質啊這個一路呢到這個宜蘭那鄭董事長有沒有聽到前政委張景生在他臉書上直接講說如果說高鐵到宜蘭會是史詩級災難 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4003.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4026.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
我有聽說但是我沒有很詳細去了解他講的那您認同這個話嗎至少我目前看來是這個我不認同這樣一個講法你不認同 來 部長所以現在就變成是一個非常大的落差因為張景深政委他直接在臉書上講他講說給行政院院長了然後行政院院長也說交辦給你了 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4027.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4054.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
然後馬政委也講說你不要再賴了院長都有看到那甚至講說這個民進黨的高官們每一個人都支持那為什麼會有這樣的落差民眾的感受我不曉得哪些高官們支持哪些高官因為你那天那個婚禮沒有去對不對看起來那個婚禮是你沒有去不然可能張景深就直接跟你討論了我不曉得他所說的依據如果張景深政委可以再明確一點說哪些人是反對高鐵 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4054.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4076.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
宜蘭案我覺得或許可以再來討論但他沒有講得很清楚這我不曉得他所謂的史詩級的災難我想是不是史詩級的災難這個有點形容詞啦這是形容詞再來針對他所說的那個內容我看報導的說法一 他所說的金額很像說錯了不是4000億是3500多億 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4079.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4100.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
第二他的公里數也說錯了他說只有40公里其實是60公里我不曉得他所說的依據是什麼但我建議因為交通是很專業的討論跟評估政府不會亂花錢就是因為交通是專業的討論跟評估所以才會看到說本席才會看到說連民進黨任內 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4101.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4124.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
的高官不管是政委或是交通部長曾經擔任都會跳出來反對那就代表說這樣子一個討論其實是連民進黨內部都沒有辦法說服自己的那如果說連民進黨政府過去擔任高官的人都沒有辦法說服自己你很難能夠讓人民放心是說這樣子的一個工程會不會能夠達到你原本預計的效果 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4125.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4150.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
我想這就是現在的癥結點報告員這其實經過了最後當然還是要交通部來去做一個拍板或說你們做出的不管可行性評估綜合規劃等等來後續的研議但更重要的是為什麼會現在一個建設出來之後反而會讓很多人而且重點我一直強調這一些並不是在野黨他們過去都是你在擔任民進黨政府時候的高官來 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4153.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4182.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
因為今天還是要討論觀光我還是就叫一下觀光來兩位這個局長跟董事長可以先請回來觀光署署長本席在三個月前討論交通委員會的時候討論我們所謂觀光逆差那時候我就已經有提醒過就今年看起來有可能會突破觀光逆差破千萬那那個時候我也一直一而再再提醒是說你的觀光報告真的不要粉飾太平要看到我們現在的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4183.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4198.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
但很顯然的我覺得現在跟民眾感受差很多我就先救教一下我們在這一次公佈出來所謂的這個觀光國旅的產值2024因為現在我們只有統計到2024年113年對不對國旅產值我們現在全年有多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4209.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4225.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
目前 全年觀光署的非常華麗的報告華麗的數據5158這是對 5158億這是1月到9月的部分113年是5158 對113年5158億多少人次 多少旅次 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4238.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4256.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
2.2 2.2 2.2億2.2億屢次怎麼算的國人會很訝異啊因為你講是說這個產值跟屢次都屢創新高比疫情前都還要好那國人就會好奇啊明明跟我們大家的感受不一樣國屢感覺是比較冷門國屢是相對來講比較弱勢而且現在觀光利差破千萬那你怎麼算出來說有2.2億屢次屢次怎麼算的 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4260.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4286.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
這個因為長時間的調查所以我是不是請我們企劃組組長來跟大家說明因為那個真的很認識你的定義是什麼署長你真的對你的業務沒有那麼的純熟我只能這樣講你的屢次是個人為了觀光休閒商務等目的到從日常生活地點到外地活動再返回原地算一次完整的旅程這叫屢次 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4287.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4296.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
所以你把觀光 休閒 商務等相關活動都變成履次那這樣就是會灌水你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4299.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4314.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
來 我們今天的部會我知道有一些部會都是外縣市對不對你今天外縣市的部會來立法院開會今天開完會之後再回你外縣市你也被觀光產值你也被觀光產值納入一個屢次這個是依照國際的統計標準而且是歷年來都是這樣子統計不是到現在才這樣統計部長 之前並沒有這樣統計 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4327.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4340.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
屢次是你們為了要現在部長 真的之前你沒有刻意去講這樣的一個數據你也沒有講這樣的一個產值其實數據都有只是有沒有被凸顯出來部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4344.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4372.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
部長 本席就是因為非常重視所以我才會說看到這樣的一個數字是不是我請觀光署 您說過去沒有這樣的我請觀光署提出過去10年的數據給委員部長本席就是因為很重視這樣的數據而且重點在於是你的觀光逆差那個時候我們就提到了就是說不要美化國旅的數字國旅現在有很多的問題但是它不能寫假的啊當然不能寫假的但是你也不能去美化數據你也不能去 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4373.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4394.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
你也不能去講是說部長你今天部長本席現在最重要在於是當國人大家都覺得是說我們的觀光有很大的問題我們都要努力的時候當我們觀光署居然拿出一個數據講是說這個是一個比疫情前還要好的一個數據五千多億全國華然啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4395.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4416.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
結果講是說我們什麼時候我們的國內觀光可以到五千多億然後就有兩億多次的屢次數據是依據事實不是依據感覺數據是依據事實所以我可以請觀光署提出過去十年的數據就是因為依據事實本席才要在這邊再提出來就是說這絕對不是一個觀光的屢次嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4417.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4432.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
今天所有部會上來開會都可以算一個履次然後結果我們來我再請教平均每人消費多少錢2323元你的第一名是誰你的第一名是什麼項目餐飲 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4439.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4455.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
你第一名花費在餐飲最多第二名花費在交通最多那不就是一樣嗎你今天國人我所有我就不要講其他就部會首長來到立法院開會都可以算一個履次然後你部會首長來立法院吃便當也可以算成是我們觀光產值 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4456.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4483.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
報告委員觀光產值當然有五千多億但是有多少根本就是國人日常生活這個是主計總署所核定的這就是日常生活這根本就不是旅行產值過去到現在為止一直都是這麼統計方式部長如果說你真的要這樣講的話那我就必須要跟你很直接的講就是說這樣子的一個計算方法跟我們國人以及跟你所謂的觀光就完全落差太大這個我們可以來討論委員如果有更好的計算方法 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4487.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4514.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
連部會首長來立法院開會吃個便當都可以算到觀光產值的時候那我們到底我們的觀光可以有多少產量這才是重點啊你會覺得無奈本席更無奈國內的旅客更無奈國內的旅行社更無奈所有的民眾都覺得是說當我們的國旅已經變成是低迷的時候沒想到我們觀光署給我們的一個公開數據是五千多億創新高 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4516.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4544.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
那生活在什麼地方啊平清時空所以我本席才會講是說我們要針對問題我們要針對問題來解決問題並不是美化數字是 沒有錯 這個我接受謝謝謝謝委員謝謝侯孟凱 昭緯交通委員會是史詩級的委員會都會讓委員充分的一個發言那我們接下來請林國成委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4553.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4561.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
謝謝主席來請我們交通部陳部長請陳部長那個鐵道局我們楊局長鐵道局楊振軍局長委員好部長 局長大家早他都知道了你們辛苦一下因為我們今天確實對於軌道的政策也提出一個專案報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4582.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4610.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
可是當然因為我也列之一二確實過去鐵道的預算是多的可是這幾年下來是下降的那當然在這裡報告我也不是針對這些指定專案報告的這整個鐵路但是比較敏感從這半個月以來 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4612.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4633.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
為了高鐵宜蘭站也就是我們過去張景生前政委他提出非常之多的這些批判當然他個人有個人的看法他也算一個專家我們也要尊重他但是我個人覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4636.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4660.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
交通建設不能依照經濟效益而來斷定做跟不做但是沒有辦法現在風風雨雨不管是媒體不管是當地不管是團體都反對這件事情第一我要請教部長兩個問題第一個你對這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4665.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4694.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
既然強烈這麼反對部長你有什麼看法報告委員強烈的反對我覺得這都是形容詞那多強烈我覺得要有科學的評估我們其實有做過民調剛剛洪孟愷委員在問的時候我有回答過我們在宜蘭縣議會幾乎看到大部分絕大多數的議員們都是支持的宜蘭的立法委員也是支持的宜蘭的縣政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4695.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4714.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
也有表達過他們也是支持的這是第一點第二點我剛才講說反對的感覺要有科學的數據所以我們有做過民調我們目前宜蘭的相信我們做民調支持宜蘭高鐵延伸到宜蘭的有79.5%是支持的那反對的數據可能蠻低的反對當然啦正反雙方都有 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4721.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4750.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
可是據我了解宜蘭地區確實包括老百姓包括政府機關甚至於都把本來97公頃都把它擴大甚至於整個篆圍鄉他們都蠻希望化為交通用地這是事實因為我考察過地方民群我了解所以基本上現在已經建在弦上 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4753.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4766.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
請問現在張景深政委他說是不是請你們做公投你的看法部長做公投報告委員公投這件事不太可能由交通部來發動 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4769.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4795.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
他們要做這些公投你同不同意你同不同意我們已經有做過民調了對我們做過的是民調嘛他現在要發起公投要不要見公投是人民的權利我們都尊重你尊重我們都尊重但是你不覺得這個公投做下去對我們整個交通建設的會耽擱嗎你不擔心嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4796.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4818.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
我們還是希望啦因為很多的民眾是期待交通建設要發展那我們還是期待說交通建設可以趕快來進行是所有民眾所期待的所以你對公投同不同意嗎或者你認為民調就可以顯現出來公投我沒有辦法同意或不同意我們會尊重會尊重 好 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4820.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4832.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
那個 楊局長可以請回來我們陳署長來 觀光署陳署長來 我也要拜託我們那個觀光署啊幕僚單位也提供資料給署長喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4836.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4855.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
來 我們今天最主要是觀光那部長我一向不太贊同就是為了捍衛你們的做法而在那邊跟立委在那邊有所爭議這一點我是滿反對的 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4856.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4881.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
立法委員是有意見下情上達然後轉印給決策單位來做觀光政策如何去補足不滿這個不足的地方所以部長我還是建議這裡面當然數據你難怪我們立法院的同仁在質疑這些觀光我舉個例子 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4882.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4888.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
你們現在美麗的數據完全不能反映到 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
4889.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
4893.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
這個產業是七產的產喔產業的這種感覺我幾例專門辦國禮也得到我們觀光署所表揚的這些禮行業他都關門了耶 部長他都關門了報章雜誌在報導 禮行社 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
4918.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
4944.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
辦國禮的已經有46家關門了那請問一下既然數據這麼好為什麼他要關門就是因為我們統計的數據雖然過去是這樣統計但是事實上是有所出入的有所出入所以我還是要建議部長因為我也知道你不能管得這麼細 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
4946.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
4960.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
觀光署當然就要為以籌謀如何檢討改進去符合人民所需要業者所需要這些才有意義那剛才重點就是這樣嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
4961.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
4981.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
我說實在你不能灌水的政策達到美麗的數據這一點我是很懷疑的報告委員數據一定不會灌水一定灌水啦報告委員數據一定不會灌水在國會殿堂我不要跟你去狡辯私底下我才告訴你們如何去灌水 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
4982.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5003.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
我相信這個數據不是部長不是署長但是底下的人說實在的不能這樣灌水有沒有灌水不要爭議但事實上我剛才已經講了業者可以馬上反映我幾例啊像我屏東我們恆春 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5005.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5013.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
他們一年過去是四百萬五百萬現在一年不到兩百萬今年只有兩百零幾萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5014.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5043.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
明年他們在擔心他們現在所有的賣場根本幾乎八成都關門大吉不定我相信你是管政策你不會管這麼細節的東西但是署長你要監督這些我還是要建議每一個縣市都有它的觀光產值跟觀光特色 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5044.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5065.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
你們要針對一個縣市一個縣市把它的特色像我們新北 九份它有貴的很好吃你們要不要去辦這些讓人家有一個景點式特色去做促銷這些你要去做啊可是到現在為止 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5066.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5072.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
為止我只有看到美麗的數據從來沒有看到我們因應對策 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5074.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5102.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
我要拜託你針對觀光的問題不是數據啦而是實際不是數據你們的數據都很漂亮啊你們過去就是因為這是錯誤的數據才會導致現在觀光產業慘到不能慘的一個地步所以這個部分真的部長我用心良苦啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5104.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5129.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
特別建議你在政策方面好好檢討一下要針對產業發展不要只有美麗的數據而是美麗的業績這是最重要的一點所以我也要拜託我們一向我對於部長對於有心的做法我真的 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5130.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5148.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
敬佩之宜我還要你用政策的力量支持觀光署把它真正不要美麗的數據啦要美麗的業績這才是真正替老百姓把觀光創業去把它做好所以部長這一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5150.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5177.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
我提出這些讓你做參考我也希望你能夠在政策方面好好檢討一下不要說沒有灌水我只指責這些沒有意義可是我敢保證所有數據不是署長不是你但是底下給你的數據不完全正確在我們民意代表看到業者的慘淡跟他們的心聲不得不在國會讓我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5179.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5205.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
交通部的陳部長能夠了解所以這一點我要建議部長針對這個事情下去做檢討跟改進好不好好謝謝謝謝委員謝謝林國成委員林國成委員這一年來是我們交通委員會的同學他即將要畢業我們給林同學掌聲的一個鼓勵 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5219.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5235.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
謝謝林國成委員現在請許智傑委員發言謝謝主席我們先請部長請陳部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5243.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5260.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
委員好部長好我想先謝謝昨天部長特地到我們高雄我們高鐵現在也進步很多部長什麼時候高雄到台北的高鐵直達不是 我是說直達車 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5263.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5290.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
大概二月二號是不是很像二月二號所以二月下個月下個月就可以有高雄到高鐵對 會有直達車會有直達車直接就沒停台中了總共有四班沒有中停台中直接到高雄直接台北高雄所以這個是對我們高雄是很好的不中停台中但是有到台南跟高雄所以對台南跟高雄的鄉親來說是相當好的 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5292.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5308.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
直達台南跟高雄2月2號開始調整那也快了吧所以下禮拜我們就看得到了希望說這個可以跟大家公布一下這對我們高雄跟台南都是很好的事情我想這個對 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5310.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5331.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
我們會特別的歡迎所以這個希望說能夠再宣傳一下讓我們大家知道好 那其實針對剛剛林國成委員所提到的我有一點不一樣的意見也希望說跟大家分享事實上台灣進步很多我們應該好的要鼓勵當然我們不好的要檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5333.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5358.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
所以你看台灣現在的高評 台灣的經濟GDP其實都進步很多我們應該往好的方向去看去加強 誇獎我們台灣進步的地方那當然其實我們也希望說不管是行政院還是我們交通部 觀光署等等的相關的單位事實上台灣當然存在著貧富差距的問題那應該怎麼樣去幫助弱勢 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5360.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5388.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
那把這個弱勢再提升我想這個部分是我們做不夠要再繼續加強的那就拿觀光來講就是說那個觀光署長可以一起就拿觀光來講就是說我們以桃園機場跟高雄機場你可以看到其實桃園機場幾乎都飽和啦那我們如果說觀光署的角度用這個二線機場的宣傳所以你可以看到那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5392.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5415.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
其他韓國 韓國其實他們我覺得他們有很多東西可以參考著我們看怎麼樣去做因為觀光公社其實很多元 很活潑你包括到各地去分散比如說他們還強化他們的二線城市的行銷包括金海 青州 大邱等那你再看那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5419.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5444.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
這個除了這個機場之外你可以看到他們所辦的在高雄所辦的活動高雄所辦的活動你看他們在高雄舉辦下酒祭就是推廣韓國的飲食文化那包括文化大使到我們那個展覽到我們的高雄的博鱷那包括我們其實有很多他們到高雄去也會推很多這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5446.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5466.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
釜山、大邱、光州、青山南北道等所以他們其實這個韓國觀光公社我特別去參觀了一下我那個去參觀的照片我還特別去參觀了一下他們的觀光公社所辦的活動其實真的是很多元 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5467.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5492.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
所以我在建議說觀光署事實上我們從觀光局變成觀光署當時崑澤委員跟我們交通委員外的委員也花了很大的力氣希望把觀光局變成觀光署就是提高格局包括人事權包括經費權都能夠提高格局但是呢我們覺得提高之後的變化現在讓我們感受沒那麼大 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5493.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5518.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
就是那個觀光局跟觀光署之間的變化事實上它可以多做很多的事情那這個觀光公社的概念我希望說觀光署可以再了解一下思考一下那再來就是飛機飛機事實上我們也希望說這個看起來不見得是觀光署在處理但是呢其實這都跟觀光有很大的關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5520.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5542.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
我記得之前兩位我們的部長跟署長都還不再指的前任的啦當時我一直在說布拉格希望能夠直飛這是桃園機場飛布拉格當時的部長跟署長都說不可能都說不可能但是我一直覺得東歐的市場 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5544.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5566.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
其實現在東歐因為他跟台灣有很不一樣的感情就他們也接受過共產主義的那個蹂躪然後呢他們現在變成民主國家之後他們也在發展經濟那他們對台灣的高科技台積電跟台灣的經濟的發展又蠻嚮往的 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5569.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5598.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
所以現在東歐其實對台灣的重視程度我覺得我去東歐國會考察他們真的非常非常的友善所以當時我就判斷說布拉格應該是很有機會那後來開飛之後部長也知道成績大概都是九成以上所以這個載客率很高那我們觀光署現在有設辦事處的在歐洲就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5599.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5601.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
有哪幾個國家 部長知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5605.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5634.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
法蘭克福跟倫敦都有那剛剛委員特別提到的那個捷克那我們法蘭克福辦事處呢3月份的大旅展結束之後就會往東歐走了也看到了我們這次的直航很感謝委員的一直持續的支持跟那個我們現在看到的就是東我想到的是東歐北中東南都要去思考了你看新宇其實他們聽到芬蘭他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5636.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5663.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
那個意願好像蠻高的很多人批評說我們派林昶佐去做芬蘭的大使好像是不是專業結果我看到一個新聞是林昶佐在芬蘭脫下他的西裝閃靈到了那邊他就直接演唱了因為芬蘭是重金屬國家所以派他去當大使正好是用文化去做結合 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5665.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5692.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
所以現在航權又已經簽了對不對是不是有必要我們去努力在北歐 瑞士我們航權也已經很早就有了所以我在思考就是說是不是我們觀光署就是除了在英發德有我們的辦事處之外就北歐 中歐 東歐等等的是不是可以做一個思考 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5693.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5720.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
那也就是說在其他的國家裡面就是不同的國度我希望說我們都用這樣子的想法主動出局類似包括韓國公社他們的這些做法那如何去推動台灣的我是一個想法就是說如果觀光署我們在世界各國都有我們的辦事處那能夠類似比如說好2025的下九季他們韓國的公社到我們高雄來辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5722.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5728.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
其實台灣的美食文化可以說世界應該是數一數二的包括 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5729.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5756.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
珍珠奶茶 包括小籠包 包括滷肉飯現在外國人說滷肉飯 都常常說滷肉飯小籠包也常常說小籠包這表示我們這名字已經燙到世界珍珠奶茶 他們不是叫珍珠奶茶他們叫Bubble Tea但是 就是說像這樣子我們是不是可以主動到全世界各國去把我們台灣的因為你先讓他有體驗嘛署長不是很重視體驗的活動嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5758.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5775.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
是 跟委員報告剛剛委員特別提到的那個直航我覺得光屬未來的重點會跟著我們的直航走就是讓那個地方因為交通要先解決嘛所以我們去辦活動國人或者是當地人才有機會來到台灣這是第一個第二個 台灣的美食確實是引起世界的關注 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5776.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5805.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
我來的這六個多月基本上有很多國外的單位都是想跟台灣的這個美食做合作那這件事情確實也是屬於重中之重那這塊像我們今年今年上半年的越南會帶我們的板豆就是越南團來吃台灣的板豆這種主題型的方式其實也會持續性的推出以上跟委員報告沒事 我是簡單的就是說是我們其實觀光署的目的當時其實我還有一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5806.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5810.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
口號我覺得還蠻不錯的就是處處都是打卡點 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5811.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5839.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
步步都是觀光部那我也要希望說我們部長跟署長我這種感覺還沒有出來是不是能夠跟包括文化包括各部會其實就是說我們台灣的觀光要如何能夠推到全世界就像韓國的演唱會高雄的演唱會經濟這樣子一個方式能夠提高這個格局的思考時間的關係先提到這裡下次再補充 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5840.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5861.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
好 那希望說這個部分觀光署可以用一個不同的格局去做思考好不好小補充一下剛剛委員提到的那個北歐的部分是由我們駐倫敦代表處去參加旅展主要的市場就是北歐市場謝謝那盡快啦盡快把這個飛機航線把它完成好 謝謝謝謝許智傑委員發言完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5875.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5887.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
謝謝我們現在請李崑澤召委謝謝主席請一下陳士凱部長還有楊振軍局長陳英秀署長陳署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5895.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5915.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
部長好 剛才的委員討論到宜蘭高鐵的問題我是高雄栽培的立法委員但我也是宜蘭的子弟那針對宜蘭高鐵的問題我想現在宜蘭的主流民意已經不是在關心需不需要做 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5916.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
5937.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
宜蘭的這個高鐵的延伸而是在關心相關宜蘭高鐵的進度到底什麼時候要到動工到底什麼時候要完工這個是宜蘭鄉親最主要關心的一個趨勢那是不是史詩級的災難或是需不需要宜蘭高鐵的延伸其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
5938.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
5967.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
在還沒有高鐵之前我就在交通委員會當時高鐵在興建的過程裡面也受到很大的攻擊也被認為是史詩級的一個災難認為高鐵就是廢鐵沒有必要做這樣的一個交通的一個工程那我們也看到高雄的捷運在做的時候紅線橘線也是被攻擊說高雄根本就不需要 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
5968.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
5989.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
捷運而且紅線局線完成之後我們要推動環狀的輕軌也是被攻擊說根本就沒有必要來做輕軌到現在輕軌已經是要買新車因為搭乘的人太多了班次要更密集而且要買新車 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
5991.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6012.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
高雄的紅線跟橘線捷運也已經不夠現在黃線已經在動工我們正在爭取紫線的這樣一個規劃當初的這些交通的規劃及完成才讓整個台灣的一日生活圈跟高雄現在的發展轉型以及高科技未來的城市的這樣的一個願景 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6013.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6024.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
才得以一步一步的實現這個宜蘭高鐵是要做的我現在先請教一下陳玉秀署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6026.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6054.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
我們現在總預算卡關但是原本陳玉秀署長有推出我們這樣一個國旅住宿的優惠方案相關的觀光業者大家都非常的期待因為在淡季期間我們編了23億不管是平日的住宿的優惠我們預計有16億然後生日的這樣一個住宿優惠大概有2000萬當然我們還有遊樂園的留宿方案等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6055.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6082.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
旅遊業者非常期待但是我們預計是應該是在4月要實施嗎是不是來說明一下是謝謝委員關心這個事情確實當時我們推出這個方案的時候業界普遍都是非常期待跟而且還有民眾打電話到光屬的旅客中心就感謝我們提出這個方案那現在當時我們的規劃第一個4到6月是全年度相對的比較淡的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6083.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6102.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
那再加上我們當時考慮的是如果12月31號請預算通過我們有兩個月的準備期加上一個月的宣傳期4月1號剛剛好執行我相信對這整個計畫是效益最好的時候那現在總預算仍然是在卡關的這樣一個過程那我們實施會不會受到延誤 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6103.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6126.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
有沒有其他替代方案勢必上是一定是會受到影響因為我們的準備期是真的需要最緊最快都還要一個半月的時間所以這會牽涉到我們到底預算什麼時候過如果4月到6月無法執行的話後面就變是有點事半功事倍功半效益就會不如預期 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6127.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6153.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
我建議我們相關的行政的籌備流程還是照常的進行總預算如果能夠順利通過就能夠立即的實施在還沒有實施之前因為淡季的這樣的一個補助優惠業者是非常的期待認為是有助於觀光的一個活力的一個發展那如果這個預算一直卡關我們也必須要有替代的方案我請教一下你們有沒有替代方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6155.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6170.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
我們還是希望要能去支持這個項目確實因為我們大概從10月份開始已經討論相關的工作我們現在有點箭在弦上了部長我們現在整個總預算卡關我們對於觀光的發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6171.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6191.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
其實業者也都非常的明白是因為總預算卡關所以我們在相關的補助的這些優惠的方案或者是相關的國際旅遊的行銷或者是其他新興的計畫其實都碰到問題那部長對於這樣的一個觀光發展在面臨總預算被卡關的這樣的狀況之下你有什麼預備的這樣的一個處理的方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6196.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6212.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
報告委員我們當然以現在能夠做的內容來做就是說過去我們有的這個預算或者是計畫我們延續性的我們繼續來做但是如果有超過的大概就不行像您所提到的這個平日國旅優惠方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6213.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6229.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
這個就是超過了我們原本的那個額度的部分這個部分大概就沒有辦法來推但我們還是要呼籲立法院能夠趕快的審議我們的總預算讓我們的預算趕快過不然很多的事情包含TPAS在內你說要怎麼樣的預備方案其實有點困難 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6230.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6253.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
好 當然這個補助對於國旅的推動是有實質的幫助但是我要提醒部長跟署長我們對於觀光旅遊的一個發展還是要必須從區域的旅遊品牌就是地方的特色 多元永續還有旅宿的品質以及交通的改善來作為一個推動整體觀光發展一個重要的元素 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6254.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6279.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
當然我們在實質的政策對於軟硬體的這樣的一個推動其實更重要是對國內外旅客對於台灣旅遊的信任但是最近發生兩件事情對國內外旅客對台灣旅遊的信任就產生了很大的疑問第一個就是知名大型旅行社用戶資料外洩的這樣一個問題那我們都知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6280.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6299.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
旅客 有很多旅行社他是來代辦這些旅客的相關的這些旅遊的資料他們的資料會提供非常多的這些資料給旅行社發生這些外洩的狀況其實就讓國內外旅客對台灣的旅遊信任度就產生了這些質疑 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6299.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6322.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
那當然這展現了兩個問題第一個問題就是說我們對於業者管理這些個別的各自管理的這樣的一個狀況是怎麼處理的交通部觀光署必須要明確的掌握以及相關企業本身他資訊的這些安全的問題其實也浮現出來請部長說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6324.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6332.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
報告委員這個部分 觀光署應該會趕快去查處就是說已經進行查處我請那個旅行社負責的組長湯組長來簡單說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6336.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6355.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
跟委員報告我們其實針對那個旅行社各自部分我們分兩個部分一個就是我們平時就已經有在做查處那公安署已經有訂定計劃所以我們每年都會預防性的去做各自檢查那針對各自外線的旅行社的話我們會馬上啟動調查那針對五福這件我們昨天已經去查過了那我們都會依照相關規定來做辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6358.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6370.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
那最主要民間它不是它是那種非關鍵基礎設施的管理範圍所以公機關是難以直接的介入那我們看到許多代辦業者 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6372.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6393.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
例如像這次的旅行社他們代辦民眾相關的這些業務他需要取得更多的這些用戶的個資企業本身他的資訊的安全防護技術其實是沒有辦法及時的更新類似的事件我認為還是會重複的發生 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6395.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6403.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
主管機關必須要督促以及協助業者來建立更完善的這種資訊安全的防護來 請簡單說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6405.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6425.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
跟委員報告我們其實都有在輔導業者我們也會希望他們可以參加就是相關的這個認證有一些旅行社已經有取得資安的認證那因為旅行社大部分都是中小型企業就是10人以下居多那大型企業其實我們都已經有在做個資檢查那五福發生這件事情應該也是駭客入侵 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6427.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6443.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
之前也有別的旅行社大家旅行社有發聲過那其實發聲之後他們都會特別的不容許一再的發聲這對國內外旅客對台灣旅遊的信任會降低我是認為必須要跨部會來制定或者是更新既有相關各自的管理規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6444.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6468.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
以及相關的資訊安全的一些指引而且要有定期的集合的機制而且我們要協助業者跟出發部來建立相關的這一種風險事件的這些預警以及預防提供業者來他們在發生的時候能夠由資安院還有相關的單位來提供及時的協助最後 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6469.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6486.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
我們來提一下我們相關的這些住宿的問題這也是影響到旅遊的這些信任我們看到民眾預計連結要出遊提前支付相關的訂金來訂定這些旅宿後續業者就說不好意思我們房間 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6487.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6505.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
要整修我們也沒有辦法提供相同的房型提供來讓民眾來更換所以要求你們退訂然後退訂之後這樣的要求然後我們看到民眾發現業者在其他地方以更高的價格來販售相同的這些房型這些觀光署有什麼處理的機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6509.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6524.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
這個部分如果說消費者呢遇到這樣的問題他可以直接跟地方政府的小法官來提出申訴那如果查證屬實他是惡意棄單的話基本上我們是可以罰他三倍的那個罰金的這個部分是這樣子這個要確實的記住以上謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6539.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6564.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
謝謝許智傑委員我們現在請徐富奎委員發言謝謝王一川委員 麗玲指導謝謝主席 有請我們交通部陳部長請陳部長 鐵道局楊局長跟公務局林局長謝謝林福山局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6574.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6581.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
部長早兩位局長早我剛剛聽了我們國民黨跟民眾黨的委員說那個論點想要討回 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6584.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6605.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
他們根本是倒贏為國 這個我想這個到目前為止 我們的這個今年度的總預算還躺在立法院還沒有審這個沒錢是要怎麼做現象他們一直把很多的問題推卸給我們的交通部 推卸給我們相關的單位 推卸給行政院真的是很離譜的那所以我想針對這樣的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6608.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6627.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
立法院的一個困境部長我其實很憤怒我們屏東的尤其過去從我們的潘孟安前縣長到現在周春美縣長我們一路走來記得我們努力的屏東幾個幾項的重要的交通建設我想部長跟局長都非常清楚雙北現在買什麼要有什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6629.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6653.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
他們的這個整個大眾交通運輸非常的便利捷運已經做過了我們屏東的高鐵還沒有來捷運也還沒有來甚至連我們現在屏南快速道路還在還貧真的我們的交通建設真的站不起來保水對我們屏東人情何以堪難道我們沒有納稅錢嗎太離譜了吧部長我想針對這樣的一個總預算的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6656.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6676.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
交通部目前正在這樣的一個困境我們怎麼處理請部長說明報告委員您剛剛所提到的高鐵的部分我們也希望能夠繼續往前推進雖然說還有討論的這個空間但是我們還是希望往前推進我剛剛有講過就是說我們希望我們在高鐵的 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6676.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6694.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
部分已經20年了我們現在就是務實的延伸務實的延伸這個部分我們會努力來推進那另外平南快的部分我們也希望能夠快一點來進行那目前的這個可行性研究我們現在等行政院這邊來核定已經核定了那另外 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6695.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6716.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
高頻二快的部分院長在去年其實也有到這個屏東去也有宣布過我們希望能夠今年來動工但是因為現在總預算沒有過我們很擔心這個動工的時程會不會去延遲那我們當然希望不要去延遲到所以我們會想盡辦法想盡辦法讓高頻二快的部分能夠趕快來做動工的動作 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6718.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6746.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
部長 我想 我知道包含您跟我們的交通部都很努力但是我們不能被受困於藍白可以政治算計但屏東的交通建設不能繼續落後我想對我們情何以堪尤其今天講的觀光發展為什麼屏東縣現在觀光會受到這麼樣的困境交通難道不是一個很重要的一個因素嗎不然你也常常去屏東念很清楚我們光是要到屏東的路途裸遙萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6747.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6748.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
我每天坐車 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6750.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6778.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
要坐火車坐高鐵來台北開會來回就要6個小時那對我們這些遊客來講他光是5天的行程來回平常就浪費2天的交通耗的時間在那裡對我們來講怎麼會有誘因呢我想這個問題我們都要去面對都要去解決好那剛剛部長你講的那針對高屏二塊原本我們預期是今年要動工那這個預算也已經都編到今年的總預算今年會不會動工 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6780.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6798.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
報告委員 我們原本的計畫是希望9月底能夠動工那現在總預算確實是有延遲到我們現在還是在請公路局想盡辦法我們想盡辦法趕快讓他能夠動工是不是 我請局長來回答一下 是這邊跟委員報告一下確實就是說高屏二塊今年新興計畫在今年的預算是3.5億 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6799.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6819.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
那裡面大概有這個1.5億是屬於設計那這一個其他它將近2億是屬於用地徵收的部分那原來的現在在做這個篆桿這個設計當中那按照原定的期程是希望在9月底針對在這個台三線加入到因為是台台農土地比較容易取得希望來這個動工 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6821.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6848.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
那這個目前我們也很期盼這個預算趕快審查通過但是現在相關的這個前置的設計我們還是在這個感冒當中這個要拜託交通部我們一樣要照期程來進行第二個平安快速道路那因為我上個禮拜我也有請環境部跟部裡面來討論我們希望能夠加快這個重規跟環境的一個進度那這部分局長我們目前的進度會不會再能夠提前 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6849.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6863.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
這個部分跟委員報告一下就是說就是委員大概就是非常關切那環境部那邊也在這個協助那另外一個部分這一個就是這禮拜大概就是上禮拜大概就是城鎮委那邊也有特別這個召集來礦部會做協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
6864.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
6881.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
那目前大概就是說第一階段環評的部分這個我們已經提送環境部那環境部也很幫忙在2月4號會來做這個審查那如果說順利的話這個分手界定完之後那就可以這個配合我們現在現行的這個中規的一個作業那開展第二階段的環評 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
6882.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
6900.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
那陳政委這個也召開會議來協助那希望說訂這個目標在116年8月可以把這個二節環評把它做就是這個通過那相關的部分我們局裡面公務局也跟這個屏東縣政府大概有這個協調 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
6901.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
6922.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
因為未來在水底寮那邊會有一個加油道那這個跟水底寮外環道的共識放寮外環道一起處理這個185的一個聯絡道的部分的話我們跟屏東縣政府也有這個共識那會作為這個仙島工程來做一個處理那希望說在116年底這個仙島工程可以來動工 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
6923.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
6941.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
好 我希望今天局長講的 這個未來我們都會來檢視一定要照這樣的期程來進行我們的屏東鄉親已經等很久了這條救命路真的等很久了部長 那我想針對高鐵部分當然現在我們的前交通部的部長這個最近也 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
6942.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
6957.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
透過媒體一直在放話說這個我們屏東南沿屏東甚至北沿宜蘭的部分他們都認為沒有這個效益甚至有一些路廊的問題那我很遺憾的說過去這個整個 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
6958.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
6972.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
這個台灣的這個交通發展過去為什麼會重北青南難道這些人不用負責任嗎對得起我們屏東人嗎對得起宜蘭人嗎部長你有什麼看法是 報告委員我還是那一句話啦對於高鐵的議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
6974.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
6991.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
我們現在交通部的立場是務實而穩健的延伸什麼叫務實而穩健的延伸第一在工程的技術上可以克服可以做得到那第二在國家的預算上可以支撐得了也就是我們的預算能夠負擔得了的狀況底下我們會務實來推動延伸的計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
6992.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7018.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
我想我們的賴總統已經講過了嘛我們未來要均衡台灣連交通都不會均衡是不會讓台灣進步啦我想這個部分我們屏東人我還是要特別強調我們還是要享有交通平權的一個權利我們屏東人不站著要報稅部長在我們周圍來拍片這樣好不好這個部分我們交通部會來努力也感謝委員的支持好 那個兩位局長請回我請那個觀光署陳署長陳署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7027.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7042.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
我想我們針對這個臺灣的這個觀光發展那行政院這邊也提出了一個115到118的一個4年的一個計畫北回之巔跟這個微笑南威的一個計畫但是很遺憾的一樣卡在總預算的問題那尤其針對 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7043.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7055.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
目前整個這個我們觀光署也好針對整個這個地方政府也好會受到很大的一個觀光景點的一個發展跟觀光活動的一個推動的一個瓶頸那面對這個問題我們觀光署會不會來繼續來協調繼續來推動這個案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7062.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7081.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
謝謝委員提出來這個問題因為今年的擴大內需跟我們的北回直電都是國家重要級的建設公共建設那這件事情也是屬於各地方政府也非常的期待跟支持那在去年光屬就已經組成了為了北回直電這個案子我們已經組成了一個總顧問團 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7084.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7111.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
希望以軟帶硬把這條軸線上面除了公共建設之外但是到底有哪些的故事在這裡先已經在內部做盤點所以我們是急需要這個計畫趕快通過那我們相關後面的工作才能開始啟動大家都重視觀光產業的發展但是如果預算不過就會勢必上延後了我們後面整個台灣觀光發展的一個機會那在這邊還是懇請立法院趕快審預算趕快通過預算謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7112.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7131.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
因為我聽說國民黨跟民眾黨的委員說因為你們現在規劃的案子都是否我們這個綠營執政的縣市其實我們把計畫攤開來看看國民黨的縣市難道沒有嗎更多花蓮台東南投都有我想這是一個均衡觀光的一個做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7132.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7155.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
那目前我們的柯執恩委員 謝榮介委員蘇勛委員 你們也是要進行選縣市長難道你們不支持這些案子嗎所以我們還是要再三呼籲在野黨要趕快來省預算 不要再阻擋總預算我想這個部分能夠讓我們的觀光發展能夠趕快往前推進那最後我想 最後一個問題部長 最近這個101事件你有什麼看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7157.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7172.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
101事件我們這個爬101這個是國人大家都很振奮的一件事情那在過程當中其實交通部也有幫上一些忙但是我們沒有把它特別去做宣傳因為這個是101的這個甲董事長他們努力的方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7173.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7200.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
因為我知道我們現在觀光行銷上面我們當然有很多的策略了包含網紅也好 包含演唱會經濟也好但我想我們現在這個不同的課程尤其包含國內外的這個遊客要來一定有不一樣的這個課程的安排跟這個玩法我們觀光署也應該要與時俱進要想很多不一樣的方式 讓媒體自己會主動去報 讓大家願意來關注這樣的一個發展 我想這是一個很好的一個案例 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7202.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7219.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
好 謝謝徐物魁委員發言完畢先做一下宣告等一下蔡其昌委員林俊憲委員發言完畢之後休息十分鐘請各黨團助理告知接下來的委員以便他們安排時間現在請蔡其昌委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7231.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7237.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
謝謝主席請交通部陳部長 觀光署陳署長陳部長 陳署長委員部長早 署長早 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7246.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7266.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
今天主席安排了發展觀光條例的修法針對發展觀光條例本席有幾條條文要來進行這些修正因為這個條文我本席今天就不講但是我講的跟這個條文多多少少有一點關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7268.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7282.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
我們都知道這個觀光對台灣的觀光而言這個不管是觀光的數字這個觀光產業的榮枯其實跟兩條軸線很大的關係一條就是inbound一條就是outbound |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7283.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7303.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
那看起來澳邦的部分就是在服務澳邦的這些旅行社等等看起來應該是狀況不差啦因為我們可以看得到包括從韓國的統計數據從日本的統計數字來看台灣人都變成人家的這個財神也了 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7304.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7328.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
所以對我們的出國的旅客而言其實我們的狀態其實是相當不錯的但是反過來來台灣的旅客看起來狀況還有很大的努力空間那當然在台灣的旅行而言除了外國人來之外國旅也是很重要的一個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7329.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7356.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
那其實這個是老生常談這個在交通委員會這麼長的時間我想每一個階段我們的國旅都面臨不同的挑戰那也曾經好過但現在此刻的狀態看起來是不好那這個不好其實我沒有辦法給你標準答案但我覺得觀光研訓院要成立之後我認為觀光研訓院應該給大家答案 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7357.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7377.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
什麼意思呢 譬如說現在我認為很不利的你在所有的社群平台上你都可以去發現這個有錢人出國有錢人留在台灣 窮人出國那這個意思就是要告訴大家說國旅是比出國更貴的旅行 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7378.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7403.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
那這個已經是既定印象你只要看在社群平台上你只要PO這種文的下面大概都留言量那一則的PO文流量都特別的大那下面的PO文都可以看出來大家看起來多數是同意這種說法所以這個其實是一個既定的刻板印象而且這個刻板印象對國旅是非常不利的所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7404.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7433.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
交通部或觀光署要怎麼去扭轉這個刻板印象我認為這個其實是很關鍵的那這個刻板印象源自於哪裡源自於大家會覺得譬如說國旅的飯店國旅的這個旅宿很貴那更源頭可能從墾丁開始更源頭可能從墾丁開始那這個就是過去本席一直在提到對於觀光飯店有貴有中價位也有便宜 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7434.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7453.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
可是大家會普遍沒有特別在數據上做管理的印象也就是只要網路有人PO一張很個案型的照片個案的案例說你看 食物這個一點點什麼東西夜市買來的什麼東西就要多少錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7454.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7480.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
拍了一張房間的照片然後就告訴大家你看我花了多少錢然後下面就一大堆留言說你這個錢我已經可以去Okinawa我已經可以去日本了其實就這樣那這個案我不是說PO的人不對啦我的意思只是告訴你們說或許那一個PO的人是對的他也無心要打擊誰只是作為一個消費者他覺得這樣很貴可是這個一個個案就會變成久而久之就會變成普遍的現象 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7481.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7505.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
那觀光署的重點在哪裡當然啦 有人賣得很貴然後貴跟便宜又有個人感受的問題又有他其他周邊服務到底含不含瓜在這個價格裡面可是久而久之大家就會普遍覺得都是這麼貴所以什麼叫數字管理就是資料的收集對觀光署而言到底每一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7506.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7523.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
國旅重點時刻到來每一個地區它的定房狀況中價位價位到哪裡高價位價位到哪裡低價位到平均房價到底在哪裡其實這個對消費者而言就是最好去對抗個案因為統計數據我們不會有 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7525.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7552.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
而且對觀光署而言或許你也不夠及時你或許自己也對這個資訊的掌握也不足所以我只是提供一個就以科學的數據統計數據來面對我們國旅很多的消費者的個案這樣才有辦法跟大家跟社會說明你不說明長期一個個案一個個案累積最後就約定俗成最後就形成刻板印象最後就是告訴大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7554.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7562.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
有錢的人才能留在台灣國旅窮人最好出國因為出國比較便宜但事實上出國真的比較便宜嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7563.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7589.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
這個也要看地區 看時間要看他要求的服務品質來論斷所以我想全世界都是如此台灣有台灣的好 國外有國外的好這個沒有辦法蘋果跟橘子是沒有辦法放在同一個天平來比較但為什麼會被台灣的國旅會變成被污名化這麼嚴重我覺得這個是觀光署真的要認真去思考那接下來你又有光源心願的成立 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7590.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7611.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
所以光源心願對於這樣的問題到底要怎麼解方是什麼我提的只有一個你這數字的公佈就客觀數字的統計公佈讓大家的預期可以怎麼去處理他接下來的旅行到底要出國還是要留在台灣這個可控部長跟署長你們覺得呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7612.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7637.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
報告員您剛剛的那個建議我剛剛也跟署長講您上一頁的那個建議應該要把它拿下來好好來討論一下真的是應該各種數據都讓民眾能夠接觸的到能夠理解的到這個是比較持平的方式才不會大家用刻板的印象去對國旅有不好的一些想法所以部長你是支持所以我們應該集結不只是我建議這一項 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7639.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7665.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
在署裡面有那麼多的優秀的文官你們應該要認真去思考面對到底國旅是什麼因為不能只在知緯末節這個補助一下那個辦個活動放個煙火其實這個在結構上我覺得現在國旅是很不利的那個刻板印象是非常深刻強烈的那第二個像我都覺得像署長你曉得我看了一個東西我就覺得很有趣 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7667.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7685.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
我們的環境部在推綠色旅遊網頁你有看到這個環境部的這個活動嗎你曉得這個活動嗎 觀光署曉得嗎署長或者其他同仁曉得嗎環境部有在推綠色旅遊網頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7687.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7704.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
我們跟環境部一直有保持跟綠色旅遊的這塊的一些合作跟聯繫一直都有好 那其實如果這分兩個層次現在看起來觀光署是知道的那我的意思就是說觀光署竟然知道觀光署對於 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7706.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7725.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
環保標章的環境部認證環保標章旅行社有26家嘛其實占比很低啦連1%都不到只有0.6而已那他裡面去區分嘛他列了一些條件然後列了一些旅行該具備什麼什麼然後給你什麼叫做金級銀級銅級這樣加起來總共只有26家 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7727.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7753.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
那如果大家因為我看到了新的修法也提到行政院也提到叫永續觀光環境部現在在做的透過環保標章的旅行社推這個綠色旅遊觀光署你們覺得這件事情讓環境部在推綠色旅遊你覺得這個合理嗎或者說這個認證你們要不要跟環境部好好討論一下這個認證是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7755.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7783.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
跟委員報告委員觀察的確實是事實但是現在其實不是只有環境部在推綠色旅遊各部會都在推綠色旅遊太好了因為就是現在的顯學那署長我作為一個旅行社或者觀光飯店那我到底要申跟你中華民國政府申請多少的認證標章因為你說各部會都在推所以我環境部要申請一次我觀光署要申請一次我不知道還有其他哪一個部也在推 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7784.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7790.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
那我到底我要怎麼證明我是國家認證我是永續旅遊綠色旅遊或者什麼旅遊 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7792.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
7818.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
這件事情現在也是我們跟環境部正在溝通的地方我們能推的是綠色旅遊但是呢 標章這件事情我們建議還是由環境部來處理大家才有一致的標準那現在觀光署因為推的還是郵程嘛所以我們會再去集合一下各部會再推有關綠色旅遊的這個項目再集中起來好啦 我的意思就是說你們觀光署 我講在交通委員會二十年來太多的認證 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
7821.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
7838.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
太多的認證每一次認證一大堆的認證鼓勵業者來申請申請完之後他在市場上到底能不能創造現金流其實我都高度懷疑就像搞這個律師認證你看只有26家26家認證佔比0.6%在旅行社的佔比0.6%那好就算 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
7847.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
7866.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
我第一個問題是政府要不要統合不要讓大家到處在申請認證第二個 好 我申請認證完之後認證跟不認證到底有什麼差異業者很辛苦 經營很辛苦了國旅都已經這麼差了我還要花錢去認證認證完之後還接不到生意 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
7867.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
7891.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
所以當我們要辦一個認證第一個先整合你們先談好誰要來做這個認證第二個誰要來做這個行銷就是你要讓大家區隔說我很認真在推永續推綠色然後過了之後只要拿到認證於是乎我會吸引一大票的人讓大家知道我就是全台灣最綠色或者最永續的旅行社 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
7892.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
7917.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
你如果不做這個他只是又多一個認證標章又擾民 又讓業者要申請申請太少 公安署又沒有面子所以要趕快去督促大家趕快來申請不然我再編一個預算認證什麼補助什麼補助然後認證完之後其實也找不到生意署長 你懂我的意思部長 懂我的意思所以第一個 先做好整合第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
7918.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
7940.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
把認證後面的整個行銷的規劃一併做好這樣不就不讓大家說你講故事大家又推什麼認證我就覺得很煩了啦業者都覺得很煩好不好最後一個啊部長那個我們持續在委員會裡面爭取台中機場的這個新的航線那我們很謝謝這個我們很謝謝這個星宇嘛在 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
7945.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
7965.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
這個夏季的航班裡面又多了這個東京跟熊本東京跟熊本那今年本期要推動建議的那麼多的新的航點還有沒有可能有其他的點因為時間很有限來簡單回答我就好 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
7965.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
7980.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
今年因為夏季班表冬季夏季班表三月剛剛委員講到這個那當然之前我們也再持續看看日本的部分還有沒有再新增的可能機會 現在機會很大你知道嗎中國因為不飛了 那個機場 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
7982.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8009.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
運量就會下來下來就剛好台灣補進去這個時候不搶 機會很難東京每一個點都那麼熱那其實不只東京像東南亞也是像台中很多希望飛曼谷或者是像比較遠一點像雜黃 北海道這些其實都可以考慮 好不好那另外那個華信不要忘記你們答應我了 華信新的飛機華航撥過來之後要有一台來飛台中的 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8010.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8034.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
到時候要飛哪裡我們再商量一下再一看市場的需求啦好來謝謝蔡體昌委員發言完畢現在請林俊憲委員發言發言完畢之後休息十分鐘好感謝主席本席要請我們交通部陳部長請陳部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8041.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8042.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
委員好部長好 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8043.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8071.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
部長我們台南市的一個重大交通建設就是台南鐵路地下化預計在今年底通測是 部長好像明天要到台南去主持鐵路地下化的一個接軌儀式對 崗軌的最後的接軌儀式所以我們地方非常期待這個台南的鐵路地下化對於台南未來的發展非常重要是 但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8073.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8102.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
受到今年總預算還沒有審查的影響那相關的預算如果沒有辦法動之會不會影響到今年底的通車報告委員確實我們今年的預算是超過去年所以在台南鐵路地下化確實會有預算上面的影響但是通車的部分我們目前還是朝年底之前通車這個目標在努力當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8103.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8130.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
因為他的台南鐵路地下化的中間補助款是由前瞻的預算移編到部裡面來的好那我給你看幾個數字第一個他在去年大概是有編了178億多那今年我現在講的是你所有的鐵道捷運軌道的交通部的一個經費 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8132.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8155.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
今年是編了310億台南的也在裡面這筆預算就是交通部的鐵道還有捷運建設的計畫它包含了桃園桃園的鐵路地下化花東的鐵路雙軌電氣化嘉義市的鐵路高架嘉義縣市的跨縣市的鐵路高架還有台南市 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8156.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8172.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
的鐵路地下化的計畫等等都在裡面是那如果今年2026年的年度總預算沒有過這310億沒有過那你依法大概就只能動之到一個上限就是去年預算的上限178億多是不是這樣是 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8176.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8201.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
也就是說如果總預算沒有通過的話那你今年只能執行你今年310億大概不到六成大概57%的預算就你比照去年最高的預算你是不是可以動這這樣的額度對 報告委員就是差額會有到131億這麼多你有130億你就沒辦法做那你原本的預算規模310億 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8203.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8231.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
結果你現在手裡面只有179億所以你就要做預算分配嘛 對不對那很簡單 你要怎麼分配這個影響到各縣市地方重大的交通建設所以這個在野黨不省總預算也害慘了地方這個是政治的惡鬥害死國家的發展各縣市的重大建設的發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8232.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8259.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
我在這裡要求部長那你現在原本的年度預算規模今年310億結果你現在只能弄至179億你就去挑啦凡是反對省總預算藍白立委的這個民眾黨沒有就國民黨立委的地方你就不要分配給他那要不然桃園一塊錢都不要給他桃園六個禮物都分對 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8263.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8291.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
總預算啊花東也是啊這樣要分配嗎不然你怎麼分配你告訴我報告委員我們是希望每一個縣市都不要被放棄啦那但是各個地方的委員你不總預算你都不要放棄你全部都不要放棄各個地方的委員自己也要想辦法來支持這個總預算不然真的會對他們的地方的建設會造成很重大的影響你應該跟地方的縣市長說啊跟投行的張善政說啊花東也是啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8293.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8316.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
你們的立委反對省總預算交通部今年哪有錢補助你鐵道岸捷運的建設相關計畫你從那優先步驟像我們這幾期心中有什麼台南高雄嘉義那我再請教部長我也要求部長不可以影響到台南連底通車的計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8318.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8326.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
我們會 有沒有問題我們會盡全力盡全力來努力這個方向你的全力是有沒有辦法不影響通車的計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8328.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8355.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
應該是可以啦報告委員明天你要記住我明天要去要去做一定可以崗軌的最後的這個先接我知道啦感謝啦但是預算真的是對我們影響相當相當的大不過我們交通部跟鐵道局會全力努力讓這個台南的鐵路地下化在今年年底來做通車的典禮你的你今年還可以動資大概179億台南市鐵路地下化降多少20億 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8358.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8383.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
你看沒問題吧 對不對是 是 我看那個人家京都一直在聽頭啊所以不會影響到台南市的鐵路地下化的通車啦就算總預算沒有省好 我們達成這樣 我們達成這樣一個結論啦你京都比你比較有擔當人家京都都說可以你補充一直要省 不用省啦對不對 才20億嘛 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8385.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8408.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
台南的六席立委都支持要省總預算你這個當然要優先給我們感謝台南的立委都支持總預算我們會優先來顧及台南鄉親的需求另外我再講一個這兩個都是關於應該跟交通部當然都是業務相關第一個我們國內的旅遊今天大家很關心 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8410.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8420.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
除了昂貴以外 還會產生一些亂象什麼昂貴啊 不只是吃喝的 一般都煮那你說國旅就整了 巷子整了就大了 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8421.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8445.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
你整個沒關係 產生一些奇奇怪怪的現象例如現在的人出去玩 訂房一般都透過平台那你平台他有時候遇到廉價或者有重大 假設你預訂了 你訂好了結果忽然間公佈說有什麼樣的一個大活動 那就會出問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8446.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8471.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
高雄因為演唱會經濟很成功BTS去高雄開演唱會平台就把所有訂房取消平台也叫他在上面有房間的這些飯店先關房再漲價因為他知道這個活動辦了很多人會來對不對你如果照平常的價格賣他覺得可以賺到多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8477.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8505.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
因為一個大活動到了大家一定會搶房那有沒有辦法管理你連個平台你沒辦法管理這個問題其實我以前質詢過我說這些平台現在在上面賣房間有很多在上面刊登廣告的都是非法的旅宿你沒習慣了你告訴我什麼平台沒落地 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8506.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8509.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
那現在有沒有辦法管啊現在可以管嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8512.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8538.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
來 市長 跟委員報告關於像那個惡意棄單的這個部分呢消費者如果遇到這樣的問題就直接跟當地的地方政府的消保官直接申訴那所以如果查證屬實他是可以罰三倍的這是第一個 第二個呢針對非法旅宿的部分呢在法官條例第55條跟51-1條也有只要是非法的部分我們最旅館業最高可以罰兩百萬民宿是最高可以罰一百萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8540.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8566.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
這個部分現在也要求他們在任何刊登廣告上面都要把自己合法的證據都放上來針對非法旅宿你講的嘛他在刊登非法旅宿他刊登廣告的行為他可以罰10萬到150萬是你有罰嗎150萬最高你有罰嗎目前由地方政府去主責你有罰嗎在平台上刊登 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8568.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8578.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
報告我們這個是就個案去處理因為這部分就是有一方面就是另一個就是你觀光署有處罰嗎地方政府在做那個你要推給地方政府你觀光署有處罰嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8580.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8604.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
因為這是全責的話如果說一般旅館跟民宿是地方政府在主責如果是觀光旅館是由我們來直接來開發非法觀光旅館全國都沒有人回歸基本上是沒有非法的觀光旅館你在那個在那個平台上刊登的非法旅宿那有沒有要求平台不要讓他刊登 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8605.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8624.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
這個像我們平常就會請地方政府就要平常要巡查如果有的話就直接發行給他要求他撤 撤下你要求誰撤要求OTA平台如果他是在平台上看到的話所以你現在可以管理OTA平台了OTA平台現在已經要求他要在台灣成立公司所以基本上已經可以納管了 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8625.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8641.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
好 台灣每一家平台都有落地嗎都有成立公司嗎在這一部分是有兩個方式來處理另外就是說我們那個地方政府經過利用網路訊號政府平台大部分都沒有落地 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8642.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8668.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
國內的旅行社的這一部分全部都用旅行社來登記國內的平台的部分那如果說是不勤勞落地嗎所以國外的這個因為它是國際的這部分國人大部分都在這幾個大的平台上訂的台灣前三大 前五大的平台統統沒有落地啦你們的署長不知道不知道署長是不是署長是沒有落地那麼沒有落地什麼落地 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8669.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8687.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
你到底懂不懂的自己業務不太了解一下平台都沒有落地啦包括你部長你自己出席的時候你都用哪個網站你都用什麼店報告委員我已經很久沒有訂房了你沒有訂房喔搞清楚好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8687.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8715.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
沒有啦 國際的平台目前還沒有落地沒有完全落地但是國內的平台是有落地的但是沒有錯 委員講得很正確大部分的國人是用國際的平台在使用你國內平台當然在台灣當然也落地怎麼可以這樣講 你說的不順暢問題大部分我們現在台灣一般旅客因為國內平台都不好用啦都不好用啦好啦 報告委員我們召委再催我時間了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
8717.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
8744.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
你這個博文已經問了很多次因為發生救援都是這樣子啦對然後你說他不可以惡意取消訂單他現在有見到投訴的是平台叫這些業者先先關一開先取消訂單就先關起來啦然後再重新訂價先關房再訂價那你叫他找平台算賬嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
8745.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
8758.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
對不對他就知道說有一個大活動要到了那現在可以提高房價了所以大家都先把房間預訂關起來然後再提高定價這樣所以這個就是平台管理的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
8759.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
8780.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
報告委員這一部分我們有特別有召開會議跟縣市政府在針對這個做法去做加強舉例你們應該要求這個平台要落地啦到台灣賺錢也不落地那也不繳稅好不好好現在部長謝謝謝謝林進憲委員發言完畢我們現在休息十分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
8805.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
8808.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
8854.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
8877.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
響鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
8892.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
8920.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
響鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
8925.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
8936.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
響鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9069.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9070.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
響鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9125.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9144.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
谢谢大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9150.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9168.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
響鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9197.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9227.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
響鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9257.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9260.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
響鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9321.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9326.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
響鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9385.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9407.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
好我們繼續開會現在請黃健豪委員發言好謝謝召委那我們一樣請交通部陳部長請陳部長然後我們一樣請這個觀光署陳玉秀署長請陳署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9414.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9438.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
委員好 部長好 署長好我想今天開始還是要跟大家討論一下我們觀光的問題當然這兩天有新聞披露說我們老牌的旅行社很多旅行社遭到勒令停業那觀光署公布了有46家名單這一方面反映出可能是國內的觀光產業相對的衝擊比較大但是今天不是要跟大家討論產業問題既然發生就發生但是我們要討論說民眾的消費者權益的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9440.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9464.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
這觀光署公布的46家名單那新聞上跟政府都說提醒消費者不要被騙但是我想問一件事情是說我們這是我們政府的責任不然交通部觀光署裡面我們去公布因為每年海暑假之前都去公布這種旅行社的查核結果那公布完披露了資訊之後那還要做什麼事情我們有什麼責任嗎還是你們的責任是公布完就沒事了 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9469.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9495.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
是不是請旅行業組的組長可以啊是 跟委員報告我們其實這個是法定要公佈的事有時候我們會依照法規來公佈那公佈之後其實有一些狀況是譬如說他今天是因為財務狀況被我們停業的話我們就會請他提這個財務改善計畫那必須要確認他財務有改善之後我們才會復業如果他一直沒有改善就是停業那其實這個部分的作為也是為了要保障消費者的措施好 謝謝組長 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9496.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9519.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
我跟部長跟署長 我想要確認一件事情這是我每次看到這個新聞的 我的疑問想今天利用這個資訊來瞭解一下就是說其實我今天要問的問題是說那我作為消費者我是每次出遊之前我有義務跟責任我自己要去上觀光署的網站查詢說哪些被停業了嗎那還是說觀光署這邊有沒有去橫向聯繫包含說經濟部也好 金管也好 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9520.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9543.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
就這些被勒令停業被公告停業的廠商為什麼還會有消費者被騙是因為他還能收費嗎他還能繼續延攬生意嗎那其他在其他的平台上面他的網站上面或他的金流他的銀行帳戶還可以繼續收款嗎這件事情有人在處理嗎還是說今天他雖然被勒令停業已經一次是16家那我看那個清單上非常多家有的有名有的不有名 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9544.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9552.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
那今天他在他一樣照樣在假設他在報紙上或在網站上刊登這個招攬新的廣告他可能要賺最後一筆要跑路了不管他有什麼想法 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9554.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9581.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
他開始這樣廣告然後有相關的這個帳戶也都出來然後能夠去繳錢然後也付費了但結果發現女士已經被勒令停業了這是我可能是要費者事後才知道但是我問說事前或是你們在勒令停業的那一刻開始有沒有去做橫向聯繫讓相關部會包含是經管會經濟部也好去包含經濟部要停他的這個營業執照嘛那他的經管會他的銀行帳戶要被凍結或是不能再收這個相關款項嘛等等的這部分有沒有人在處理還是就公告就沒事了 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9582.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9602.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
跟委員報告一下我們其實一般會呼籲消費者就是你要找旅行社之前你要先到我們的那個官網上去查詢我們是會請他查詢合法旅行社所以這停業的名單不會在我們合法的旅行社裡面那剛剛委員有詢問到這個橫向聯繫部分那我們的旅行社其實現在如果被停業的話他就是不能再經營旅行業務 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9602.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9617.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
之前到現在我們都也沒有看到旅行社就是說他被停業之後他還有繼續去收款這些情形 沒有那我們會發現的話他通常有財務狀況的話我們會事先來來做相關的處理那停業之後他就不會再營業也沒有這樣子的案例 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9618.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9632.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
我先確認一下他是自己沒有做這件事他沒有做這件事還是他不能做但依法他不能做啦但是我的問題還是很明確就是說自家旅行社他的收款的這個他的公司帳戶或是負責人帳戶等等的有沒有被中或怎麼樣我想委員的問題蠻明確啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9634.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9654.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
就是說希望我們除了觀光署這邊勒令停業之後除了我們自己勒令停業應該橫向聯繫上也要通知到經濟部那邊甚至是經管會那邊讓他們清楚說後續的例如說金流的狀況就必須要被管控或者是說他的公司登記等等之類的這個部分就要有所處置 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9656.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9681.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
那這個部分其實是可以做的我們是不是請觀光署也朝這個方向就是我們勒令停業之後雖然說我們現在看起來勒令停業之後沒有發生後續委員所擔心的狀況但如果可以做得更仔細那當然是更好我們來討論一下看怎麼樣讓其他的橫向聯繫可以做得更完善那這個部分討論之後我們再跟委員來做說明好 謝謝部長我想這就是要 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9683.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9698.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
你們積極一點去把這個當然目前我照你們所說假設真的還沒有發生那未來可能會有人想到就是說就是經濟不好或怎麼樣一次46家我想這數字也相對比較震撼那可能不要說真的這個產業有些影響我們擔心的就是說像 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9699.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9721.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
就像詐騙問題是一樣的依法都不能說過去也沒想到會有人這樣被詐騙但是就是會有人想到這種途徑所以我們當然希望說至少在這個相關的這個金流上面能夠把它阻絕然後沒辦法繼續收費當然就不會有後續的問題這是我覺得感謝部長的回應那接下來我們討論一個舊議題之前上次我們也那個觀光署署長可以請回 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9723.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9728.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
之前我也諮詢過就是推動自行車旅遊這國人說法當然部分那當然後續交通部門有回我一個這個說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9730.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9760.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
你們說回去會討論檢討拿回一個說明那說明回來的結果其實跟之前是一樣的就是說還是一樣還是維持原規定就是說還是一樣車架的高度有限制然後建議可以往後面加裝這個車載的這個車可以裝在車後不要超過50公分這些都是本來就這樣子那上次提出來討論就是說有沒有可能去放寬相關的規定為什麼會做規定因為假設今天要推動綠色旅遊要推動自行車旅遊我們講一下國人目前以 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9761.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9774.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
先以你們上一次辦環法車賽的大會車的高度來講它那個休旅車的高度本身就已經很高了然後再加上自行車它一定超過法定限制這是第一件事情第二件事情是我按照國內 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9776.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9793.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
現在比較暢銷的幾個熱門的這個休旅車的款式車款平均高度大概就落到170到180左右公分它的高度大概是這樣子那如果再加上車架那加上這個單車的車高單車車高當然很多種車高那我們查了一下比較 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9794.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9808.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
通用的我們用UBIKE來舉例就好UBIKE的高度是105.5公分所以如果你的車身本身已經180了再加上車架再加上UBIKE以UBIKE為標準的話105公分你的高度一定就會超過285公分 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9810.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9831.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
那基本上你只要開車想要把這腳踏車運具再去任何一個地方去騎乘的話不管是參加比賽或是去觀光的用途它的高度會超過285公分它就有機會或一定就會收到罰單我想包含每年我們現在在日月潭每年既定雖然去年跟今年都有辦去年前年都有辦比賽今年也會辦比賽 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9832.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9860.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
這個大會的這些車這個大會的收容車或者是這些選手的這些車子相關的高度如果這個東西沒有放寬的話或是沒有去做特別處理的話它是不是繼續會有罰單的問題高委員其實大部分的車型都不會有這個問題福斯有一款車子是會有這個問題那很多的車子其實就像我們的建議放在車後的也相當多所以基本上會影響到的車型跟真正會影響到的民眾並不多 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9862.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9875.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
公路局這邊也有針對說實際上在檢視的過程當中該怎麼樣讓他在安全的條件之下能夠符合他們也有一些做法包含在檢驗的過程當中也有一些做法是不是請局長來回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9877.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
9900.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
這個部分跟委員報告一下上次大概委員很關切這樣子的課題那回去我大概也請同仁就是說去把這個問題做一個了解那我先跟委員報告就是說這個小型車上面放這個自行車的一個部分的話大概有分這一個兩種一種是這個家庭用的那另外一種就是剛剛委員講的參加競賽有點類似保姆車這樣子的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
9900.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
9920.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
那一般如果是我們駕用的部分大概一般的休旅車高度大概這個OK那如果說是屬於大型競賽他們那個保姆車大概都用福斯的車型那福斯這個相對這一個就是這一個比較高就會有這樣子的一個情況那我所了解目前實務的狀況那有些這個保姆車要去克服這樣的情況就是拆輪胎然後降低這個高度 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
9921.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
9944.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
目前我大概那另外一個部分有些是這個把它放在這一個保母車裡面那另外一種是後面有用輕型半舟車的一個方式去做但是我現在就是說請這個局裡面同仁跟車安中心去比對先就是說這些相關車型的一個部分因為如果說要在這一個放寬等等部分的話就必須要考慮到因為一上去的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
9945.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
9966.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
有這些保護車有很多是這個要行駛高速公路做運送的部分那個風阻的部分還有安全的部分就必須要做考量那這個部分局裡面現在有在通盤做一個這個檢視那我跟委員報告如果說在安全的條件之下這個高度可以做一個調整的話我們會盡可能我朝這個方向來做調整但是還是要以這個安全為前提 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
9967.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
9997.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
好當然安全很重要這沒有問題那當然說這個高度限制這個定下的規定因為這個討論我說真的這大概也十幾年討論了我在 survey 相關資料的時候上次最早相關的新聞可能出現在2013年之類就十幾年前了就開始討論這件事情那已經過十幾年後我想現在的車子的它的技術它的高度跟過去相比應該相對比較進步一點它的車架的能耐和相關的這個設備應該也有進步很多所以我覺得這個要盡快的還是要去做新的檢討不要一直 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
9998.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10024.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
沒守成規啦 我講真的就是這樣好不好 可以嗎好 謝謝委員 在安全的前提之下我們來做討論好 謝謝謝謝黃建豪委員發言完畢現在請陳雪生委員發言好 謝謝主席是不是請交通部陳部長請陳部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10037.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10060.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
什麼叫偏鄉 解釋一下偏鄉 交通相對不便那經濟條件相對沒有這麼方便的地方什麼叫離島離島就是台灣島以外的島都是離島偏鄉跟離島重要嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10062.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10083.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
都很重要不重要就把它切掉一塊就把它切掉剩下台灣本島就好了嘛對不對南部如果愛手愛腳的話切掉剩下台北市就好了嘛這個就偏鄉離島嘛對不對我記得我當國大代表的時候啊我去總統府李登輝總統召見他說你們馬祖人啊那麼少 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10086.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10113.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
沒幾戶嘛你把馬祖那個搬到台灣來我們蓋國民住宅給你就好了花那麼多錢搞機場高碼都幹什麼李登輝總統這樣的想法我們回來以後講給老闆一定罵翻了我跟你講今天就跟川普總統講啊格陵蘭島我就是要你是不是你什麼格陵蘭沒幾個人嘛我就要你格陵蘭啊可以這樣嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10115.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10145.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
這兩天我們前政務委員張景生先生發表一個謬論他說 桃園的高鐵為什麼要地下化為什麼要地下化台鐵地下化還是高鐵高鐵本來在桃園有地下化要地下化 多五六百億吧他不需要 問題正在通過啦那今天馬九大橋多少年了 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10147.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10164.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
這個案子是賴院長在任最後一天我們總統啊 我跑到行政院找他為什麼 張景生政委在上面寫了一大堆的字我找古拉斯 那時候還是發言人賴前總統很理喻我很像在開會吧 跑出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10174.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10203.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
他找那個張哲偉把那個字除掉他寫了一大堆啊除掉啊然後這個案把它確立是賴總統任院長的時候把它批定 核定的喔核定 所以花了一億五千萬來做可行性的評估那今天已經多少年下來了你說是工程技術的問題技術也沒問題啊什麼時代了還在扯技術啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10204.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10230.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
你台灣不要被人家笑死好不好三公里在講技術喔 笑死人啦然後講經費的問題經費最近世襲也出包了嘛 對不對我們台電六接從一百多億 兩百多億 三百多億一直加 一直加 一直加 疊加說虛編那我今天早上還跟鄭裕萌董事長通電話 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10233.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10260.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
你這個馬祖大橋從八十幾億 七十幾億搞到一百多億 兩百多億 三百多億 四百多億那麼你講什麼四千億好了 不要做了怎麼可以這樣子搞呢部長我請問你到底做還是不做不要再拖了我們目前都還在程序的過程所以當時的政策方向就是往前走嘛你聽一下 昨天公路總局什麼意思我要你們十一月份開會 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10262.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10288.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
你們十一月份開會 我正好pass過去了 我沒空我說十二月份開會 我要去你們十二月份會就不開了現在是幾月 一月是不是你們去了一張公文給連江縣政府請連江縣政府去調查我們的原住民去調查這個橋要不要蓋你們在講什麼啊你問這東西幹什麼 我請問你 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10291.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10313.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
跟委員報告就是11月開完第一次工作會議完之後那委員在也這個關切說第二次會議的時候要來參加那我這邊也一直在籌備第二次會議啦那因為我說每個月開一次啊你們有沒有反對啊你現在第二個月了你不開然後現在在執行台上面回答我說在籌備 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10314.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10341.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
跟委員報告並不是這個不開因為第一次會議這個開完之後也是希望說這個第二次會議能夠如期來做這一個進行啦好 你要連江縣政府說這個橋蓋還是不蓋什麼意思跟委員報告下因為當時院核複有一些意見要再做檢討再做這個確認所以這個部分的話誰核複嘛 誰核複嘛這個院核複的這個意見下來那有些因為你們是誰囉你跟我拿給我看 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10343.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10354.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
跟我們報告一下就是說這些意見我不曉得行政院裡面有多少個張景生啊張景生現在是誰啊他是政委員嗎他只是一個老百姓而已你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10356.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10382.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
他在網路上隨便寫一些文章我當一個立法委員就要回答他問題喔很像說我腦殘啊是不是這樣跟張前政委的意見無關怎麼會無關呢因為這個案子就陳武剛剛部長所提的部分是在程序當中因為有報上去然後這個意見必須要再做檢討那我們現在跟縣府也在就是說相關的一個意見的檢討卻張景深政委已經打臉賴清德總統 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10385.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10411.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
他認為這不可行 你賴清德總統你這個腦袋有問題他在打臉他了你們政務體系的政務官你們不用替賴總統來講話嗎你們不用解釋一下什麼原因嗎是不是馬祖未來的前途就在這裡你們怎麼可以這樣子部長你回答我 到底編還是不編 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10413.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10427.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
你編還是不編你講清楚報告員不做就算了你講一句話現在還沒有到編跟不編的點那要拖多久因為現在行政院你拖到國民黨執政還是拖到共產黨執政你要拖到什麼時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10428.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10457.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
我們還是按照程序在走啦程序走八年啦交通部在努力的過程您也都參與在內您應該很清楚交通部一直程序一直往前在走啦你部長失職嘛你部長為什麼這個案子可以讓他拖那麼久你部長有問題啊交通的建設尤其這種大型的建設不是交通部說可以就可以不是 你不敢跟院長反映嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10458.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10487.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
你不敢跟總統報告嗎這個案子怎麼可以這樣拖那麼久陳允聖在先不是沒有聲音耶我現在每一次的質疑我都要提到這個馬嘴大喬我每一個案子在政府部門都會有很嚴謹的審查哪一次不嚴謹嘛你說嘛交通部的部分花了一億五千萬耶花了一億五千萬不嚴謹嗎錢都花完了耶白花花的銀子你現在不找司機重新再去整理一下是不是要三百八十億嘛你問清楚嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10489.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10516.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
是不是 前面有個台鐵的不是台電的六階的工程已經虛編了嘛你到底虛編了多少嘛你把真實的這個預算把它呈現嘛好不好我們不是不考慮啦好不好我來找世西也討論一下啦好 另外一個喔講到公安署那個福山局長你也在我問公安署他說你們錢沒有到位給他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10519.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10522.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
我們觀光署的補助倒退了台灣好行 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10525.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10551.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
以前給一千萬一年現在給四百萬你要我們公關倒退是不是包委員在新的這個財化法裡面確實公路局能夠補助給地方的財化法不會少你一毛錢我跟福山局長保證其實真的有少我是國民黨的立委我站在這裡這裡是交通委員會我保證不會少你一毛錢我保證沒關係我一個人可以打十幾二十個 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10552.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10559.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
我不諱言啦我們國民黨黨團這邊我也沒關係啦我一定會幫你們講這話但是你全部人少 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10560.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10586.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
你不能少你這個錢不能少好不好少了多少是不是我請局長回答報告委員大概就是我昨天跟你報告就是說以往這個公務局供應這個經費好啦你昨天講過了啦你把錢給公安署公安署把錢給地方就這麼回事啦但問題是他沒錢你說錢他你錢沒給會給嘛給完以後你馬上就要給了好不好可是問題是他沒有錢就不只我們一個縣市挖挖叫欸各縣市都在挖挖叫好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10587.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10612.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
還有那個橋子那個工程做一半放那邊公安署你們錢要給錢啊橋子頭端就大邱橋那裡有沒有頭端啊頭端的預算啊案子還沒完 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10615.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10637.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
這個應該是跟縣政府還在討論啦兩邊還在討論部長 馬祖大橋的預算我今年要看到你們上預算還有福山局長你這邊你要通知我開會喔再忙我都會去你不通知我開會就會生氣喔我要注意交通部你們在幹什麼好不好 謝謝謝謝陳雪生委員發言完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10643.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10655.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
好 謝謝陳雪生委員我們接下來請何欣淳委員何欣淳委員何欣淳委員不在 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10656.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10673.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
我們也特別謝謝邱若驊委員臨時通知你趕過來因為何欣淳委員因有要事沒有來發言所以特別請你們黨團助理請你趕過來不好意思那我們現在請邱若驊委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10682.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10687.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
謝謝主席 請交通部陳部長也請鐵道局楊局長請陳部長 請楊局長委員好部長好 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10698.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10723.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
部長今天首先要和部長還有局長討論鐵路地下化那依鐵道局公開資料看起來桃園鐵路地下化目前的關鍵不在於明年有沒有錢而是已經編列的經費它執行不順那其中CJ13站中壢站它歷經了五次的流標那延宕也超過了一年才決標那這延宕不只影響中壢站本身它也影響南端CJ17站平正端 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10724.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10747.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
那平震端的部分他完工後是否能夠通車那想請教局長部長那目前在這個排程中是否已經將CJ13站他這個中壢站他列為主要影響整體進度的關鍵標案報告委員13是桃園 17才是中壢那目前的標標的進度我請局長回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10748.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10775.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
跟委員報告其實CJ17是我們中立站那這個CJ17在113年3月就已經決標那現在都在這個積極的進行相關的工程當中那CJ17其實在這個目前為止原來決標金額是156億到目前為止已經執行了15億多所以我想在115年度我們這個工程還是有需要 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10776.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10798.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
後續的一些經費來做支援有沒有去做評估它之後會有什麼影響嗎因為目前它延宕一年中壢已經延宕一年了沒有錯嗎那它會影響它後續平震端這個個人平震端的因為平震是臨時站的平震臨時站的部分我們在今年10月會按照這個目標啟程來通車啟用 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10800.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10827.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
那地下化的這個路段呢現在爆出去的修正計畫呢是全縣市在122年要能夠完工通車所以沒有任何一個車站可以落掉也就是說不管哪個車站先做後做其實我們是按照工程的躍進來去做安排的那今天主要會有這個問題是因為那過去有多個標案它是流標的流標嘛那也不是因為預算沒有通過的關係吧不是這個關係沒有錯吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10829.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10842.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
對 那因為在前年就絕標了是因為單價變低而且它風險高所以廠商不願意投標那我們現在來看115年的預算別列和相關工程的標案定價是否已經有反映最新的營建物價指數 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10844.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
10861.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
他有沒有反映在最新的營建物價指數有 就是我們現在修正的已經發包的這些標都是有按照最新的這個營建行情物價指數去完成發包那後續我們現在還有內力鳳鳴 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
10863.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
10875.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
這個三個標案在等待發報那這個部分的話就是要等修正計畫來通過那目前來看的話呢還在我們的掌控期程當中但我們期望今年下半年可以完成內地站的這樣的一個發報 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
10876.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
10895.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
是了解那因為中立站是全線最困難的一區嘛那他起步也算晚那因為他經歷中間也經歷5次的流標那他有嚴重影響壓縮影響到電機的電機進場的時間那目前憑證斷的他局長他的進度是正常的嗎憑證斷現在進度正常 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
10897.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
10921.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
另外在113年的時候我們有到桃園進行考察當時本席有向部長提到大溪就是我們地方桃園的捷運綠線希望能夠延伸到大溪大溪老街道到河東局長這邊有沒有掌握進度還有狀況我所知桃園市政府應該還沒有把修正後的報告送進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
10922.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
10932.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
所以那我這邊了解到是他們去年年底就已經修正後宋經理那可能對不起我可能回頭再確認一下如果宋經理我們會按照程序來做這個必要的一些審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
10933.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
10958.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
是那部長這邊因為當時113年我們有進行地方考察那地方一直很希望大溪不只是到就是河溪因為大溪地形的關係您也知道有分河東跟河溪我們希望這條捷運綠線呢它也可以過橋到河東那技術上面其實還有一些困難所以這邊希望能夠支持才能帶動大溪整體的觀光還有交通的效益 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
10958.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
10969.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
是 報告委員現在已經送進來那個鐵道局了嘛那鐵道局會來進行審議那這個部分細節我們再來想辦法來協助我們現在部裡面也在審查當中了 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
10969.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
10988.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
OK好那另外接下來要和部長討論就是剛剛我們討論到桃園鐵路地下化那我們來看工程執行方面的監管問題那這個施工期間他一定會產生大量的土方那一直以來就是我們避免亂到土方的問題嘛那國土署他也規定土方車輛都要裝設GPS |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
10990 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11011.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
那目前國土署還有環境部對GPS的規範還在討論中那業界也都知道這套系統它其實是有漏洞的所以這邊也提出要求那交通部作為車輛的主管機關必須解決技術性上面的困難嗎那我們先來看到部長您知道有市面上有一個東西它叫做車窗型的GPS感染器嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11012.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11034.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
車窗型的干擾器 車窗型的GPS干擾器那這樣的干擾這樣的干擾器他一個幾千塊他插上去之後訊號就會斷了那現在GPS他本身的監控平台是被動的那訊息訊息斷了之後呢他只會顯示異常得到承辦人員發現異常之後土方早就被倒在不該倒的地方那另外還有ABG的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11035.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11051.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
那有一些不肖的業者他會他會有這個ABG一台是他乖乖跑他的路線那另外一台呢他裝在另外一台車上那這邊想請教部長那未來我們大型的交通公共建設我們是不是可以來研議就是把訊號中斷視同為違規寫到合約裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11056.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11076.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
報告委員因為這個土方的管理是內政部國土署在管理的所以今天要和部長討論是車輛因為車輛管理是在我們交通部是監理機關車輛本身的安全跟規格那個管理是我們但是實際上這個土方的GPS的這個管控的部分是國土署 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11076.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11101.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
因為現在有進行討論嘛 是不是希望中央跟地方他們都可以來 就是地方也有一套他們GPS的管理系統那中央這邊也有 那我們現在要討論中央的部分借接的是內政部國土署他的資料不會進到我們公路局這邊來對 那現在我們現在討論說這個GPS他裝載 現在砂石車他們也要定期做檢驗的嘛那這個機器要怎麼來做檢驗呢我請局長回答好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11103.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11123.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
這個部分我跟委員報告一下因為這個GPS的一個部分的話它基本上就是一個軌跡的定位然後跟訊號的這個花色那這個相關的一個運作燈的部分在這個國土署那邊或是地方政府現在採雙軌他們都有一個這個平台在做控管那另外我也跟委員報告一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11123.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11149.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
像現行毒化物按照環境部的要求都必須要裝GPS所以它整個車機的規格因為他們都必須要裝GPS那我剛才也提到就是有這個GPS的干擾器它不一定是它只要訊號一出現斷點那我們再後續討論誰來做誰來做管理誰來做追查那像計程車它是不是有跳表對那這個跳表是誰管的計程車跳表這個簽網的部分是經濟部標準檢驗局 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11150.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11179.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
那計程車是不是都要定期也是回到就是監理機關對 但是監理機關的檢驗是就車輛安全的部分我知道委員的意思是說我們這個在檢驗的時候檢驗人員可不可以這個幫忙去看一下這個GPS是不是這個OK不OK的部分我跟委員報告一下因為這個部分的話這個基本上就是說GPS這個系統是不是這個運作正常的部分那個是實際運作狀況的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11179.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11196.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
那交通部這邊有沒有辦法來做跟我有辦法真的是沒有辦法因為那個系統因為車輛本身安全的部分我們有一套這個法規在這個依照法規來做這個檢驗那像GPS它裝在裡面的話真的 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11197.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11226.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
第一個部分不是屬於車輛安全的項目那第二個部分的話其實外保看得說有裝一個GPS在那邊但是這個一上路之後是因為就近期的會議國土署跟環境部他們也有邀集交通部嘛對對對對那交通部這邊負責的選擇是什麼在幾次會議裡面大概就是裝GPS的部分的話大概就是回歸他們那個那因為在幾次會議有討論到就是剛剛這個委員簡報裡面有提到說小貨車可不可以開放來這個在土方砂石 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11226.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11245.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
那這個部分的話我跟委報告所以就當天交通部這邊完全沒有討論到GPS的經驗對對對因為我這邊順便跟委報告一下那如果那發生我剛才提到的A B G的狀況你們要這個責任歸屬在誰這個部分這個就是國土署就會依他們的規定來開罰國土署嗎對對對國土署會依規定開罰 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11247.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11268.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
OK 好 那剛剛就鐵道局的部分再請楊局長這邊會後再提供相關的資料就是有關我們桃園鐵路地下化的進度OK 然後還有大溪的我們桃園捷運綠線延伸延伸的案 OK好 謝謝委員好 謝謝邱若驊委員發言完畢現在請廖先祥委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11278.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11289.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
謝謝主席 一樣麻煩邀請我們部長還有我們鐵道局楊局長請楊局長台鐵公司請鄭光源董事長還有公路局局長請林虎山局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11291.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11310.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
委員好部長好今天也算是這個會期最後一次委員會開會了那我想還是來盤點一下我這個選區內的重大的交通建設的一些現況跟我們未來的一個的一個這個可能預估的規劃那簡單的看能不能跟我簡單說明一下第一個就是我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11312.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11335.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
這個台六十二線延伸萬里金山的部分還有宜蘭的部分這可能都有經過我的選區那第二個就是這個台北民生線捷運的部分的一個現在整合的一個過程那就先請我們看部長還是局長沒關係都可以首先跟委員報告就是說我們關鍵那個台六十二往西往東的部分那這兩個計畫我們都是按照這個目標時程在推進這個當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11336.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11350.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
那這一個就是說往西的部分那大概我們也在規劃就是說這一個前島工程包括景美路還有那個另外一條就是彎道下面去以後要出土的那個部分我們也在規劃要拖寬 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11350.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11369.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
然後那另外廣東的部分那這個院裡面也非常這個陳志文那邊也非常這個關切也在關切說如何相關的這個期程可以在這一個加速那這兩個計畫的部分這可能環評啊或是綜合國家報告或是氣色相關的期程有沒有相關的一些進度或者是預計可以跟民眾來說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11370.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11384.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
西部的部分我是不是會後提供一個書面資料給你因為兩個計劃有些細節的部分我再提供書面資料給你所以台六的網西原則上應該現在應該在重規跟環評當中那我們預計今年或明年可不可以走完 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11386.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11400.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
先導工程的部分我們是預計說明年可以有一個先導工程先導工程明年的部分先做先動工那廣東到投誠那個部分的話因為廣東這個可能行政院剛核定嘛那你們的重規跟環評大概哪時候要啟動 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11402.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11423.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
現在已經在做這個就是中規的招標的一個上網作業當中準備中規的招標的前置作業那個部分的話因為計畫比較大那個相關前置作業準備需要一點時間但是都是on schedule在做處理好 謝謝局長那接下來我們台北名勝縣的捷運是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11424.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11452.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
局長可以說明一下我們現在之前有拜託我們鐵道局整合一下三四尤其是機場部分的一個經費分攤的一些問題不曉得我們現在的進度是怎麼樣跟委員報告就是明汐縣的要增設八堵機場的這樣的一個經費分攤因為它涉及到明汐縣這個計畫跟系統結緣計畫還有基隆結緣這個計畫那鐵道局在1月16號有召集相關單位來做開會演商 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11452.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11480.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
那當然因為這裡面的這個方案的分攤它的經費來說相對比較複雜一點但是我們有一個結論就是說基本上八堵機場的這個經費必須要納入明細縣的這個計畫裡面去做處理那怎麼樣去減少這個行政上的成本也就是說怎麼在明細縣這個計畫裡面呢可不可以透過不同的負擔比例來去做處理而不要去動到另外兩個計畫我覺得相對是比較複雜 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11481.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11504.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
所以我們後續還會再跟這個新北市政府還有台北市政府來做那我們預計下一次的會議我們預計哪時候要可能這段時間要收集資料整理一些大家意見那我們預計下一階段哪時候在藥急山的地方政府前一次是還沒有規劃我想我們再來催促一下這個新北市政府因為上一次您說1月16對不對對好不好你們應該是給一個期限然後請他們整理一下資料在一定的時間內我們再來積極的討論再拜託我們的局長再幫那個林局長先休息一下沒關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11510.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11526.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
好 那部長那我今天要跟您討論的另外一個是我們台鐵啦台鐵的一個運輸效率的問題因為我們的軌道現在就是這樣子那我們的其實在尖峰時刻那在北部的這個軌道容量的運輸大概都已經使用到達上限了啦那其實一直以來我們今天都有在講這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11528.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11553.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
避手區間的問題我們現在的台鐵原則上都是用固定式避手區間對不對那很多的民眾都提到說那我們有沒有辦法把它做一些規劃把它變成移動式的避手區間來增加我們鐵道的容量讓我們有可能有更多的車輛能夠通行那不曉得實務上這可能是民間的意見還是說我們有沒有做過相關的評估那它的可行性是怎麼樣子的 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11554.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11570.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
包委員 這個牽涉到耗資相關相當複雜的這個內容我在想說要不要請市長還是總經理這邊來因為我們軌道不沒關係 誰講都可以因為軌道不可能拓寬了嘛我們唯一有機會的就是就從耗資系統下去改變那有沒有機會那它或者說困難點在哪一邊我有麥克風 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11576.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11602.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
報告委員 就是移動式比賽的區間 剛剛委員講沒有錯我們現在就是固定比賽一個固定比賽大概1.5到2公里左右 是 那移動比賽現在目前針對傳統鐵路各國現在目前並沒有做到移動比賽 是 只有在捷運系統有做到CBTC就是列車互相通訊那這個部分在德國的這個Stuttgart |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11603.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11628.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
跟這個JR的系統現在有在做研究但都僅止於POC就是概念驗證的階段那所以目前如果要在台鐵來利用這種移動式比賽的系統耗制系統來提升運能短期是幾乎是不可能那我們有要做相關的研究嗎你說可能德國做一些研究或者說國外的研究的經驗我們有沒有在參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11630.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11645.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
有我們現在先前也都有透過跟幾位幾個高科大或是我們的中研院工研院都有集合相關專家學者有做過探討好像要 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11645.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11672.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
先做類參考國外的這個開發的經驗來做一個專案不過這個目前都還是在我想總經理意思表達應該是理論上可行但是實務上可能會因為可能列車種類太過複雜導致他在實施上面有一些困難但是這一點但是這個方案是唯一目前唯一可能增加我們鐵道運輸量能的唯一的方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11672.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11696.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
對就一個是透過移動B賽他也是會縮短列車間距另外一個是先前有討論過就是把B賽區間把它縮短但是B賽區間縮短必須要增加這個道旁的耗資系統所以那個投入的成本會很高好我想這部分也要可能請我們交通部支持一下鐵道剛剛有講過不可能拓寬的容量就這樣子我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11698.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11724.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
車已經就這麼多的在跑了我們也不可能再像高鐵一樣還可以加車對不對 台鐵還要有容量我們高鐵還有容量台鐵沒有容量對啊 那就是說在現有的條件下再拜託我們的部長公關運輸再請您多給無論是可能鐵道局做研究或者台鐵公司地線營運等等的我們再給一些支持 好不好那另外再提一個小的問題其實這個跟你的業務也沒什麼關係但是我是覺得你也可以盡一份心力的部分就是小樹市集你有沒有聽過 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11726.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11740.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
小樹市集小樹市集你沒聽過小樹市集他大概就是一個這個很多家長啦那些小朋友的東西換得很快嘛對不對那所以說他們就是有一些二手的一些小朋友的東西都會大家交流一下擺個攤那其實這個東西在雙北我 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11741.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11757.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
在雙北很盛行我不知道有沒有慢慢地往可能中南部去延伸那它就需要一個很大的公共的一個場域那其實在地方政府它都有支持那我有想其實我們交通部下面有台鐵對不對但是我們的台鐵因為我們是營運單位所以它都有一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
11759.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
11775.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
這個場地出租的辦法無論是盈利型的或是公益型的其實它這樣子的一個租金的收取模式它是沒有辦法讓小數市集在這邊去設置的因為小數市集它的本身的精神它並不是要賺錢或盈利而是基於資源永續爸爸媽媽覺得資源這個東西用沒幾次 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
11778.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
11797.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
大家來交換對 大家來交換一下這樣子的一個概念我是覺得大家可以評估一下因為我們地方政府既然都可以把這個空間拿出來來做爸爸媽媽的一個交流的場域我覺得我們台鐵我知道有現行的規定既然有現行的規定那我們就是要去做一些突破我覺得可以參考地方政府的一些經驗把我們的台鐵也可以跟友善育兒或者是 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
11803.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
11819.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
這個資源的永續利用去做一個結合啦我就是認為交通部這不是你的業務但是我認為這是你們或許可以做一件這個對國家也是有幫助的事情我們這個交通廠商的部分我們都一併來討論討論看有沒有這樣的可能性好 謝謝部長 謝謝各位長官謝謝主席謝謝廖青祥委員發言完畢現在請鄭天才委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
11836.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
11863.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
主席有請部長請陳部長還有觀光署請陳署長部長好委員好這個有關這個觀光發展條例本席要提修正條文這個交通部的意見認為這個原住民保留地及山地管制區在這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
11865.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
11893.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
自然人文生態景觀期這邊你們認為不宜刪除這個我來說這個發展光條例第二條對於自然人文生態景觀期刪除了並不表示在原住民保留地如果是符合這個自然人文生態景觀期這個定義的這樣的條件的 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
11895.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
11917.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
一樣可以 一樣可以 而只是說不要特別放在這裡最主要就是說 譬如說原住民保留地3T管制區以外的土地你符合的你還是要列為自然人文生態景觀區譬如說軍事管制區 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
11919.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
11943.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
有符合的還是要列入所以這個部分我們主條的時候也可以再討論但是我先說明你們回去之後再好好去了解第一個原住民保留地開發管理辦法對於原住民保留地有定義為保障原住民生計你把它放在這裡好像就影響了就會產生這樣的疑問 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
11945.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
11957.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
另外就是國家安全法對於3D管制期它主要的用意是在維護3D治安對不對然後你看這個尤其是後面這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
11959.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
11982.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
三地特定管制区三地管制区分两种一个经常的管制区一个是特定管制区特定管制区还特别提到游弃资源得抵抗人力从事观光旅游及正当娱乐活动所以这个部分会有一个汉格所以我删除了并不表示 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
11983.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12010.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
就完全不能在原住民保留地來去只要符合這個自然生態這個部分當然就可以還是我們不會去動它是這樣你們再去評估一下下次審查條文的時候那因為時間的關係我還是直接跳到這個先從這邊談了那個跟公安署就沒有關係了 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12014.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12035.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
這個部長這個我已經提了很多次你也聽了很多次了因為115年度現在已經開始115年度了因為都沒有核定所以115年度也不可能了但是我們還是希望交通部能夠積極的跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12037.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12064.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
行政院溝通好因為你現在不核定的話你116年又不能編列預算會有這樣的一個情形這個狀況所以尤其是這個台鐵宜花東路段鐵路設施安全改善計畫有很重要的一個路段就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12065.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12082.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
核能到崇德這段而這段不論是鐵路或者是蘇花公路都連帶的關係是連帶的所以這個部分是一個在整個 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12085.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12113.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
花蓮台東很重要的一個路段所以這個部分一定要跟這個行政院做詳細的說明這個也沒有很多啦這個計畫也沒有像那個今天很多人談的這個要到高鐵的延伸不論是高鐵的延伸是到宜蘭還是到屏東 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12115.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12142.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
這個都小額課的經費是不是這樣 副長是 報告委員不管預算大或小但是安全的議題是很重要那這個部分我們會努力來跟行政院這邊來拜託跟溝通那希望可以趕快核定我們可以趕快來做對 因為因為基本上這個經費真的不多不是很大如果要去跟這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12144.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12158.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
這個高鐵的延伸來比當然高鐵延伸我們不反對啦那到底用什麼方式延伸這個就花蓮台東的人而言都是有幫助啦你延伸到屏東跟延伸到 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12159.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12184.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
到這個宜蘭對花蓮台東也都有幫助都會比較近比較方便對所以這個部分是延伸的方式怎麼樣那是我們都不反對但是就這個安全就花蓮台東而言無論是鐵路或是公路的安全的部分這個真的是非常非常的重要所以這個部分要請這個部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12185.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12204.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
我們會來跟行政院來爭取因為這個對花東鄉親來說很重要這個尤其是安全的問題特別重要現在已經反正一百一十五年度也來不及編預算早一點核定就一百一十六也是明年的預算了好不好好我們來努力 謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12206.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12230.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
好謝謝鄭天才委員發言完畢現在請鍾嘉斌委員鍾嘉斌委員鍾嘉斌委員不在現在請蘇清泉委員蘇清泉委員蘇清泉委員不在現在請林柱英委員林柱英委員林柱英委員不在現在請張雅玲委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12240.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12267.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
謝謝主席我們有請部長請陳部長委員好部長我先請教一個問題就是對於最新人非常關注的一個題目就是去年的時候我們有說我們要編列這個預算辦那個國際的大型的演唱會要吸引更多人來參可以讓我們的台灣最新人也可以觀賞對不對但是現在的總預算有到底上次我們這一條有被提出來討論嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12269.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12298.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
我們在整體裡面有沒有放進來應該是有放進來有放進來我是在總預算的這個那我可以請署長來回答嗎好光屬的年度新增計畫裡面光屬的年度新增計畫裡面他當然是很重要的一件事情不過在上次有特別提出來討論的幾個案件裡面我們沒有備函在裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12299.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12325.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
你們沒有被含在捏也就是說原本交通部要做觀光署要做一個大型的這個國際的演唱會不僅可以帶動台灣的觀光然後也可以讓台灣的人追台灣的追星人受益的這件事情呢是被國民黨跟民眾黨給忽視的對嗎 我這樣的理解正確嗎對嗎 部長所以等於是我們的全體國人的這個追星人的權益因此而受損 對嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12327.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12352.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
報告委員這個部分我們還有在總預算裡面但是沒有被列出來是優先的這一塊總預算我們有編啦就是總預算沒有省也就省了但是因為它總預算它沒有優先然後也沒有省沒錯所以這個部分我們的權益確實受到影響我們本來是計畫因為坦白講理解演唱會的人都知道這個需要一段時間的爭取跟溝通我知道去年就已經在做這個洽談是我們前置的作業盡量能夠提早 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12352.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12373.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
但是预算没有下来基本上我们现在要跟国外的艺人或者是公安公司等等去沟通的时候就会遇到很大的困难所以这个确实应该档期都不可能巧了很难巧应该是今年要落空了会非常非常不好做坦白讲这个确实会影响到我们争取国际的这个标杆旗舰型的演唱会受到很大的影响 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12374.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12395.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
對 所以我想就是這個對於全體的最新人來說是我們非常關注的一件事情可是這件事情卻因為我們的國民黨到民眾黨到這個禮拜還不審總預算那甚至這件事情也沒有被提出來討論而造成了全體國人的受益那我想這件事情是非常不OK的一件事情那接下來我就要針對這一次的審查觀光發展條例上面來跟部長做更多的討論就是部長我想跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12397.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12423.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
跟您提一下就是國際不然是Grandview Research或是President's Research上面都有講到我們的全球的生態旅遊產值是相當高的甚至從我們自己的2024年的年度報告也都發現我們有65%的人是非常喜歡是非常喜歡來參加這個台灣的生態旅遊我們的自然景觀其實是非常有競爭力的那 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12426.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12446.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
所以呢我們在2002年的時候呢當時其實是有做了一個生態旅遊白皮書但是就沒有之後了那我們現在遇到一個困境就是說生態旅遊在全世界這麼的發達那國外的旅客也很喜歡來看可是我們現在生態旅遊分散在國家公園法發展觀光條例和森林法 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12447.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12458.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
不同的法規裡面有不同的部會各自去管理那雖然說2002年有這個跨部會的小組提出了這樣子的一個白皮書那當初的建議事項其實都已經達成了 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12459.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12477.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
但是這麼多年過去了我們還是遇到了很多的食物上的問題也就是說現在社區有自主的協會培訓居民來擔任導覽員像是阿里山 拉拉山 宜蘭結合了農作體驗跟步道健行的一些主題課程強調低衝擊旅遊和在地飲食來吸引了我們所謂的國際的旅客 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12478.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12505.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
第二個部分還有跨區域的聯盟整合像是台灣生態旅遊與地方創生聯盟整合了65個社區把一些林山的景點串聯起來像是六龜的三半路線來提供更多的半日遊業遊等多元選擇第三種還有我們這幾年講的希望可以回鄉創業返鄉青年他們其實也透過政府的補助把我們一些林山的景觀跟文化品牌化來平衡保育跟獲利 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12506.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12530.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
那現在就有一個最大的爭議在於許多的社區旅遊產品因為沒有取得旅行社的執照而被檢舉所以這些返鄉青年因為常常遇到這些所謂的檢舉是非違法經營那不勝其擾的團隊其實最後就是會放棄他原本經營的這個產品跟這個路線那有一些人可能就會轉成地下化那或是借用旅行社的牌照並支付佣金 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12531.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12559.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
那這個其實都會也會影響到政府的稅收啦那同時呢過度的生態旅遊可能也沒有考慮到環境負載量的一個問題那反而讓我們喪失生態的一個資源所以我請教一下部長就是說在我們現在沒有一個專責法制的架構之下那我們要如何確保我們的生態旅遊不會變成一般的觀光包裝而已然後甚至因此而造成我們的環境生態受到影響不曉得說部長你的想法是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12559.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12581.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
是 報告委員您剛剛所說的問題其實觀光署也有發現到這樣的狀況那這段時間其實蠻多人在反映這樣的議題那這個部分我覺得觀光署可以做出一個討論或者是引導的方向看怎麼讓大家比較有方向可以去依循那不過像委員剛剛有提到一個很重要的現在管轄的單位可能分散在各個部會 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12582.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12600.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
那我請觀光署這邊可以來統合討論一下不一定全部的管理權限都能夠拉在觀光署這邊但是統合討論一下我覺得這是應該要開啟的動作因為我們沒有開啟這樣子的動作對於很多想要參與這方面的觀光遊程的人來說會是非常困擾的會是非常困擾 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12602.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12621.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
而且我們也沒有整體去思考說我們的大自然的承載量可以承載到什麼程度沒有一個總體的規劃或許觀光署來開啟這樣的討論甚至在我們的政觀之裡面是不是可以來做這樣子的題目的討論這樣可以跨部會來做一個討論跟決定我覺得會是比較好的方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12621.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12644.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
好 因為我想就是說今天那邊地下經濟對旅客也沒有保障那今天沒有做好環境層載量評估對於生態永續發展也有不好的一個影響啦所以我想就是剛剛部長我非常感謝就是你願意開始來這樣子的討論因為我想我也提供一個案例來作為參考就是說其實澳洲呢它也有相關的從聯邦層級到地方州政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12645.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12670.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
都有一個相對的一個法規跟管理機制的認證那我覺得這也是可以提供我們的專通部啦觀光所這邊是不是可以來去更進一步的提出具體的生態旅遊政策目標然後搭配我們的流程簡化還有受保護區的評估指引以及原住民合作的一個機制讓我們的生態旅遊有門檻有誘因也有清楚的管理邏輯那 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12673.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12689.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
再來就是說我們在哥斯大利加還特別加入了一個環境影響性評估所以我想剛剛部長其實也有承諾了那我想我們大概多久的時候可以有一個研議或是評估是不是要往這個方向繼續來前進我們三個月的時間來評估這件事好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12690.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
12714.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
包含我們這個政官制的部分看有沒有辦法來做這樣子的提案我們上個月左右來評估那我也希望可以一併討論一件事情他有沒有需要進入修法這是不是也可以一併來評估好不好 謝謝修法陳明文也一併討論 謝謝委員好 謝謝張雅玲委員發言完畢現在請游皓委員游皓委員游皓委員不在現在請陳冠廷委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
12721.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
12722.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
好我們請部長請陳部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
12729.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
12754.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
委員好部長好部長上一次我們諮詢的時候主要是針對這個鐵路高架化的部分那現在嘉義民雄還有這個雲林的斗六他們都在推動鐵路高架化那當然這對城市安全交通流暢都有很有的幫助不過在大嶺這一段這一段他可能會在整體的路線完工後他會出現下來又上去的這個狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
12755.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
12776.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
那這個部分我們認為說對他的長期的整體規劃還有城鎮的發展那或許工程的一致性他可能會不利所以我在去年的11月13日在這邊跟部長有討論過大連的高階化的規劃那我們今天還是再次的這個正式的再請部長來支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
12778.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
12794.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
那部長朵六市區的鐵路立體化的可行性研究在劉建國委員的推動之下還有協同還有協調交通部在14年12月24號已經將修正後的報告交下到鐵道局那現在我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
12795.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
12812.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
確認一下鐵道局現在依審查的要點正在做審查的作業當中應該沒有錯現在還在繼續的在推動當中上一次我們提到的時候部長有提到說啟動立體化跟高價化的評估需要由我們縣府這邊來提出嗎是沒錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
12813.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
12842.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
那縣府這邊的提出當然是他必須要有做這件事情之後我們才有後續的規劃但我理解但是我在想說初步規劃的可行性研究是不是可以先從這個邀請部長先來大臨後跟我們的技術官僚一起來走一走跟縣府先辦理這個座談會跟縣弟會談也就是說我們先把這個中央的輔助規則地方的提案要件那如果要做的這些期程節點一次先來講 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
12843.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
12865.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
那我們當然是還是要縣府來去做這些提案不過如果由部長跟交通部的這些官員我們先就這個可行性大概先有一個事先的磋商事先的討論限定的這個場刊之後我們一次把這個節點這樣講清楚那後續縣府他們推出來的這個方案我相信也會更專業而且更符合行政效率不知道部長怎麼看 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
12866.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
12894.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
報告委員這個部分確實是要由地方政府來提出那如果需要跟地方政府來做溝通或者是事先的討論我們都很願意跟地方政府來做事先的討論那嘉義縣政府如果有這樣的需求我們就來跟他們討論好那我這邊就會特別請這個不管是證供所也好縣府也好那還有這個交通部我們就來這個戳上一個時間點我們先來看一下這個可行性是怎麼樣然後我們再來去推動這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
12895.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
12914.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
那部長這個我是希望未來交通部把大連它視為一個補齊路廊一致性的這個安全的重要節點它不要碎片化的去處理那因為現在從斗六或者是民雄大連這些如果我們用整體的這個用國家的視角用中央的高度去看的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
12915.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
12937.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
那我們能夠把它的完整性做得更好因為如果只是由因為其實現在各縣市交通應該是一體化來去考量的那不是說我這個雲林縣的斗六我這邊要把它處理好所以我就處理這個就是治標嘛這個也是治標但是如果我們要整體來考量的話其實交通部在事先的參與 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
12938.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
12964.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
那就可以甚至是可以省下很多行政作業的這個流程所以這個部分我們也是非常感謝部長的支持那我們會再另外再邀約所有的小樂觀單位一起來參與好謝謝部長好謝謝委員好謝謝陳冠廷委員發言完畢現在請葉元之委員葉元之委員葉元之委員不在 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
12966.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
12986.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
登記諮詢委員均已發言完畢 作以下決定報告及詢討完畢委員劉雪婷所提書面之提案說明委員陳樹岳 游浩 林建啟 魯明哲 劉雪婷 何欣淳所提書面諮詢列入記錄並刊登公報 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
12987.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
13015.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
委員於質詢中要求提供相關書面資料或未及答覆部分請交通部及相關機關盡速以書面答覆針對本日會議討論事項做以下決議討論事項個案均另定期繼續審查本會本會期最後一次會議意思錄授權主席核定後確定 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
13016.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
13032.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
本次會議結束散會在這邊也謝謝我們交通委員會的議事工作人員謝謝媒體朋友謝謝交通部所屬官員那今天是交通委員會最後一天的開會謝謝大家祝大家新年快樂 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
13050.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
13055.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
響鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
13070.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
13083.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
副主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
13092.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
13093 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
謝謝 謝謝大家 |