| IVOD_ID |
17239 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17239 |
| 日期 |
2026-01-28 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2026-01-28T08:36:47+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-01-28T13:08:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
04:31:13 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/eeffa975d6a1e3ead3a2b43aa665e40728dbefb2f530c7a7e692bdb9a1e47977a2e7a94721db057a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-01-28T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
7.陳被提名人宗義-立法院第11屆第4會期內政、司法及法制委員會第2次聯席會議（事由：審查行政院函送中央選舉委員會委員提名名單，游盈隆為委員並為主任委員，胡博硯為委員並為副主任委員，黃文玲、李禮仲、蘇嘉宏、蘇子喬及陳宗義均為委員，請同意案。【1月28日及29日二天一次會】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:36:47 - 13:08:00 |
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SPEAKER_08 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
1615.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].end |
1625.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
請主任秘書報告出席人數報告聯席會出席委員13人已足法定人數現在我們來開會進行報告屬行請先讀上次會議議事錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1630.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1647.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
立法院第11屆第4會期內政司法及法治委員會第一次聯席會議議事錄時間115年1月12日星期一上午9時1分至12時11分地點紅樓202會議室出席委員蘇巧慧委員等23人列席委員鄭天才委員等8人 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1647.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1672.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
請假委員黃國昌 麥玉珍 丁學忠委員三人列席官員 大陸委員會副主任委員梁文傑暨相關人員內政部常務次長吳唐安暨相關人員中央全局委員會法務部外交部國家安全局國家通訊傳播委員會數位發展部交通部司法院監察院財團法人海峽交流基金會等機關代表暨相關人員主席王昭吉委員美會討論事項審查反滲透法修正草案暨時案討論事項合併詢答委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1675.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1701.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
沈博洋 王定宇 黃捷說明提案要旨大陸委員會副主任委員梁文傑內政部常務次長吳唐安報告委員蘇巧慧等17人質詢分別由大陸委員會副主任委員梁文傑及相關人員國家安全局第三處陳副處長法務部參事謝志明司法院刑事廳法官吳元耀內政部常務次長吳唐安中央選舉委員會法政處處長蔡京高數位發展部法制處副處長吳怡倫答覆說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1702.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1726.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
登記發言委員除不在場者外 其餘均與發言完畢 詢答結束委員莊銳雄 林怡瑾 丁學忠 徐欣盈 沈發慧等五人所提書面質詢列入紀錄刊登公報書面質詢及位及答覆部分請相關機關於一週內另以書面答覆並複製本會決議討論事項所列議案均另定期繼續審查 宣讀完畢請問各位委員 今天會議記錄有什麼錯誤與疑慮嗎沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1732.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1748.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
議事錄確定我們繼續進行討論署行簽讀審查行政院涵送中央選舉委員會委員提名名單游盈隆為委員並為主任委員胡柏彥為委員並為副主任委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1748.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1767.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
黃文玲 李李仲 蘇嘉鴻 蘇紫橋及陳忠義 軍委委員請同意案依序分別審查由被提名人 迎龍胡被提名人 博焱黃被提名人 文玲李被提名人 李仲蘇被提名人 嘉鴻蘇被提名人 紫橋陳被提名人 忠義 宣讀完畢我們來介紹主席的委員跟行政機關列席的委員跟被提名人 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1786.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1807.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
我們先來第一位張志倫委員第二位劉錫廷委員現在進來我們的王鴻薇委員我們現在向正義秘書長張敦漢秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1811.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1816.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
中央選舉委員會主任委員被提名人游一龍副主任委員被提名人吳柏彥委員提名人比提名人黃文玲 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1834.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1842.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
委員比提名人李立忠委員比提名人蘇嘉鴻委員比提名人蘇志橋委員比提名人陳忠義主任必須謝美玲 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1863.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
1874.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
我們行政院林署行政總署培訓考用處處長李花蘇你歡迎 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
1888.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
1895.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
立法院院會第11屆第4期第16次會議報告交付內政司法及法治兩個委員會審查中央委員會所提出的命令 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
1910.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
1914.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
兩委員會一位26級辦公廳會以前也已經完成本院各黨團隊被提名人的資格 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
1925.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
1952.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
事任性所提出的書面問題函請行政院轉致各備提名人經行政院函附各備提名人提出與相關的資料並以檢証於各黨團在案本案審查程序安排在28日、29日兩天一天 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
1954.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
1955.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
會議分配審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
1961.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
1986.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
本這個會議開始進行前行宣告以下事項先進行被提名人游盈隆先生的說明及答詢依程序由行政院張秘書長及游盈隆先生分配說明後進行詢答 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
1988.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2003.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
由榮榮先生撥分全部達成結束後 休訓10分鐘再進行提名人胡柏彥先生的署名與答詢程序與定管一樣 並釋放會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2010.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2033.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
會議進行的總統職項與程序分別進行比提名人黃文玲、李立中、蘇家鴻、蘇芝喬、陳宗義說明與答詢答詢的時間出席出席委員會六分鐘內席委員會四分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2038.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2044.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
本院的委員會議定期時間10點半一至本次會議沒有要處理臨時提案現在我們請行政委張秘書長進行說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2065.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2092.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
主席在場的各位委員各位先生女士媒體朋友大家早安今天立法院內政跟司法法制委員會聯席審查行政院所提名的七位中選會委員被提名人本人應邀這個列席報告宣感榮幸選舉罷免跟公民投票都是我國國民重要的參政權 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2093.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2118.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
也是憲法保障人民參與公共事務的基本權利台灣透過了一次次選舉罷免或者是公民投票逐步的深化我國的民主憲政為了貫徹憲法保障民主法治及人民參政的主旨總選會秉持超然中立 恪守中立的精神統籌辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2120.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2144.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
公職人員選舉罷免及公民投票的事務持續鞏固公平公正公開的公共事務環境以確保國民意志的展現因此中選會運作是中華民國實現民主核心的機制以下僅就本次的提名作業做簡要的報告跟說明依照中選會組織法 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2146.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2174.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
第三條第一項規定中選會設置9到11個人其中一人為主任委員一人為副主任委員其他的委員7到9位那這次的提名也是依照中選會組織法來進行提名領選具有法證相關的專業經驗的公證人士來擔任委員中有同一個黨籍的不得超過委員總數的三分之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2176.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2202.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
那也跟大家報告跟說明依照中選會組織法的規定中選會除了主任委員跟副主任委員之外其餘經為兼職無給職那這次的提名也依照這樣的規定來進行跟辦理那麼第二個說明是中選會前主任委員李靖勇副主任委員陳昭健委員許惠峰 陳恩明 王韻如 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2203.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2218.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
徐亞芬等六人的任期已經在去年的11月3日屆滿另外委員蒙志成也因為個人的因素而提早請辭所以這一次行政院提名游英龍為委員並為主任委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2220.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2247.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
胡柏諺為副主任委員並為委員委員包括了黃文玲女士李李仲先生 蘇嘉鴻先生 蘇紫橋先生等六人那以上這六人的任期會依照相關的法令規定任期會到2029年的11月3日而且委員蒙志成的遺缺將由陳忠義接任任期會到明年的11月為止 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2249.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2272.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
那這次中選會的新任委員提名是依照中選會組織法第三條規定辦理滿足了三個法定的條件第一個滿足了中選會組法第三條第四項的規定提名了具有豐富專業學識或實務經驗的公正人士來進行第二個同一個黨籍的委員也不會超過三分之一在這次被提名人當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2274.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2302.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
僅有胡柏諺有時代力量的黨籍蘇嘉鴻教授有中國國民黨的黨籍那陳忠義前立委則是有民主進步黨的黨籍其他的四個人目前僅為無黨籍如果蒙大院通過所有的人事同意權後那麼加上目前現有的四位委員委員的有黨籍的同一黨籍的人數的比例不會超過法定的三分之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2303.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2324.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
那第三個經過這次提名作業的竊竭拒絕所有的七位被提名人均無中國戶籍也無外國戶籍或永久居留權也符合了相關的國籍的規範那以下也就這次七位被提名人的學經歷背景做簡單扼要的報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2326.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2355.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
那第一位是主任委員 並為委員游盈榮教授那大家對他很熟悉他是台灣民意基金會的董事長過去長期在學術界在東吳大學任教非常多年那在中央的行政經驗他不但擔任過過去行政研考會的副主任委員陸委會的特任副主任委員海基會的副董事長兼秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2356.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2382.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
也擔任過中選會的委員在政治學比較政治民意與投票行為政黨選舉等領域專業駐有專精那第二位是胡柏彥委員並為副主任委員胡柏彥教授現在是東吳大學法律系的教授專長是憲法行政法過去他也在不同的大學任教 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2383.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2410.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
也曾經擔任過許多中央部會的書院審議會或者是法規委員會的委員那他也曾經擔任過中選會書院委員會的委員對於中選會的業務也是非常的實務上也是非常的了解那第三位被提名人也是過去的資深的立委黃文林律師那黃文林律師的專長是法律及內政 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2412.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2437.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
曾經擔任過第八屆的立委也曾經擔任過多個仲裁協會的仲裁人在程序、主持、爭議處理方面有相當豐富的實務經驗第四位是李李仲教授李李仲教授是由中國國民黨所推薦的被提名人李教授現在是中華科技大學的專任教授 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2438.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2458.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
也是副校長專長是商業跟金融監理的法規公平法跟智慧財產權等多元的領域那他過去也曾經擔任過第七屆公平教育委員會的委員長期投入法學的研究兼具公共治理選務跟獨立機關的實務經驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2461.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2484.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
那第五位蘇嘉鴻教授也是中國國民黨所推薦的優秀的人選那蘇嘉鴻教授目前是福音科技大學的專任教授過去在中央他也曾經擔任過海委會國家海洋研究院海洋政策及文化研究中心的主任等職務現在也擔任許多地方政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2487.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2511.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
醫療爭議調解委員會跟醫事審議委員會的委員從中央到地方從理論到實務也具有豐富的經驗第六位是舒子喬教授那舒子喬教授是台灣民眾黨所推薦的被提名人那舒子喬教授是現任東吳大學政治系的教授專長是憲政體制選舉制度以及比較政治 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2514.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2542.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
長期研究我國的憲政制度跟選舉制度並著作等身有相當豐富的期刊跟論文那第七位被提名人是陳忠義前立委他目前是桃園市選委會的委員專長是法律曾經擔任升格之前的桃園縣的桃園市長也是立法院第五屆的立法委員資深立委 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2544.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2571.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
在地方不只有行政的經驗也擔任過長期的縣議員的職務具有豐富的中央跟地方的實務經驗相信也能夠為中選會無論是中央或者是地方的選舉事務能夠投注非常多的專業的貢獻那這次中選會的提名作業也感謝國民黨以及民眾黨 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2574.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2593.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
舉薦優秀的人才經過行政院審酌的考量秉持著韓納各黨推薦橫跨朝野背景兼具理論實務以及中央地方經驗這四個原則我們就相關的領域領選了七位 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2594.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2615.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
被提名人加上現有的四位中選會委員也都是學長巨優相信能夠為中選會籌辦選務注入專業全面的規劃跟運作思維持續深化中華民國台灣的民主法治體現主權在民希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2616.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2645.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
貴院所有的委員能夠理性審議予以支持 以上報告請各位委員先進指教 謝謝謝謝 感謝張秘書長的說明現在我們開始來進行被提名人游盈隆先生的說明和答詢請被提名人游盈隆先生說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2659.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2684.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
王主席各位委員行政院張秘書長各位女士各位先生大家早安大家好我今天非常榮幸能夠以中選會主委被提名人的身份來國會的殿堂來接受各位的 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2686.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2715.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
提問不過一開始我沒有預期到說我還要做報告要做說明不過我簡單的講11月底我接受行政院的提名我是抱持著一個如臨深淵如履薄冰的心情接下這樣的一個提名我知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2717.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2743.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
中選會主委的工作是非常的艱鉅的中選會的工作不是常人所能夠理解但是中選會的工作關係到台灣民主的成敗所以承擔這樣的一個角色那是無比的沉重也無比的榮幸 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2747.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2751.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
我是懷抱理想跟使命感而來我希望為台灣民主做出貢獻在目前國內政局緊張政黨高度競爭的環境裡面中選會要如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2776.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2801.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
做到讓各黨都能滿意讓所有的候選人能滿意讓選民能夠滿意是一個非常艱鉅的挑戰但我相信如果我獲得大院的同意支持未來我一定會 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2804.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2831.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
堅持絕對的超然中立客觀公正並且專業的精神和能力全力以赴希望中選會一個健全的中選會能夠在大院的支持之下早日的出現在國人眼前讓我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2833.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2854.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
我們2026的大選能夠順利成功讓我們2028的大選能夠順利成功中選會是這樣的一個角色我在這裡非常誠摯的也謙卑的要向我們的國會報告並且也請求讓中選會 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2864.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2891.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
人事案早日通過 讓中選會早日上路為大家做事 謝謝大家謝謝 我們現在請登記第一位 牛西庭委員質詢謝謝主席 請備題名人游教授請游教授 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2899.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2917.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
好早安林委員早這個您大部分我們認識游教授都是在新聞媒體上因為這個台灣民意基金會的這個民意調查也算是赫赫有名長時間的滾動提供了政治圈非常多攻打手邊的一個素材那大家在 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2918.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2945.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
這個看到游盈隆教授被列為中選會主委的提名人的時候大家當然是有一些意外也有很多問題想要請教那麼今天很高興有這樣一個機緣可以跟教授來做一下面對面的討論我問的第一個問題就是你應該如何確保啊這個如果有幸成為中選會主委啊因為你平常也評論非常多的一個政治的事務也做民意調查在基金會裡面有職務你怎麼樣確保這之間的分際可以非常的清楚你打算做哪一些的決定 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2948.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2973.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
謝謝牛委員我已經有了相當的覺悟擔任中選會主委也有一定程度的犧牲是要付出的我可能失去了自由我的意思是說失去評論台灣公開評論台灣政治的自由作為一個政治學者 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2975.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3004.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
我作為一個關心台灣的知識分子那樣的一個犧牲是重大的但是為了更高的目的為了更重大的目標我覺得我必須做這樣的歌聲一語雄長不能得見好 所以意思就是說不會再發表相關的評論民意調查等等也會離開基金會的職務是這樣的意思嗎如果大院能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3005.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3026.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
通過中選會主委的人事同意權任命我將辭去台灣民意教育基金會的董事長也辭去董事我採取比法律更嚴格的標準做自我的要求非常好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3028.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3056.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
那麼我們再針對幾個常常我們在中選會這個平台做討論的題目跟教授做一下意見的交換這個目前立法院有很多的委員提案修正公職人員選罷法或者是不在籍投票的各種相關的一個草案那也有這個這個大家的版本不一樣但大部分的版本基本上都是限於所謂的境內移轉投票有關不在籍投票的部分換言之就是透過登記的部分我不見得要舟車勞頓的返鄉 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3057.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3086.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
我可以在就近的投票所去投別的選舉這是在自己戶籍所在地的這樣子的一個投票那我想請問一下被提名人立法院如果修正相關的法令新增了不在籍投票相關的制度限於國內移轉投票請問您會不會忠實的執行立法院通過的法律當然如果立法院通過了不在籍投票中選會只有依法行政全力以赴好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3088.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3114.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
那您覺得在您如果你有機會領導中選會啦您可能需要多少時間來做好境內移轉投票制度的相關準備工作我不知道這項立法到時候在立法院會如何通過整個制度的內容到底是怎麼樣我不清楚但是我也要就最近我從我們中選會 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3117.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3139.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
同仁那里所得到的许多的资讯我深深的感觉不在即投票是世界的潮流也是台湾许多人直觉上对的一个努力方向但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3140.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3170.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
當我們在講世界各國很多都採取了這個不在籍投票的時候台灣沒有感覺到自己落後了自己很慚愧我覺得那種心情是可以理解的我肯定那是一個進步的思維可是我們也不能夠脫離現實如果回到我們自己的國家的選舉制度 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3172.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3185.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
我們深入去看很快就會發現不在籍投票牽涉的是非常複雜的選舉的工程尤其是九合一尤其是在九合一地方選舉裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3199.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3220.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
實施不在籍投票就現階段來講肯定是一個災難中選會已經提出來如果在九合一地方選舉辦不在籍投票將會造成將近九千種不同的選票在極端的狀況下所以我覺得這個是 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3224.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3245.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
很重要的一點我們喜歡看天邊的彩霞但不要踩壞了眼前的一大這個玫瑰讓我們的這個傲視世界的台灣選舉然後蒙城教授這個那到底是要執行還是不執行花多少時間準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3246.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3262.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
所以我剛剛講原則上我剛剛已經講但是願意執行但需要很多時間準備實際上要通過什麼樣的制度內容目前您知道嗎還是您可以現在告訴我我可以做回應當然這個有很多不同的版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3262.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3284.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
這個如果你有幸擔任中學會主委相信還有很多討論的機會但因為時間有限我們還有問最後幾個問題因為我們的執政黨曾經表示如果施行不在籍投票會導致選民投票的信任消失會有作票的風險也曾經說會有讓中國大陸借選更加容易即便我們剛剛講的現在的不在籍投票的版本是國內的移轉投票 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3285.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3308.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
這樣子的一個說法你認同嗎在你領導下的中選會你如何去避免這個選務公信力下降的問題你該如何把這個東西帶領好你真的覺得不再投票會有作票的風險嗎請你簡要回答就好選務行政的公信力是非常重要甚至是最重要的讓選民相信選舉的結果是公正的那但是呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3311.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3333.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
實施不在籍投票最大的困難是來自於執行面在可行性我覺得境外的影響等等可能是比較其次比較其次還是在於選務整個在操辦選務過程中遇到的一些新政的困難那你有沒有信心可以逐步的解決我不要講一步到位 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3335.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3362.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
如果立法院提了一個中選會沒辦法執行的一個方案壓垮中選會我也沒辦法在這邊跟您保證說一定就能夠做得好如果這樣的話是不負責任的好 謝謝教授 因為今天時間有限不過我建議你 後面還有很多委員要就教就直接回答這樣子就好了 好吧好 這給你一點點提醒跟建議 祝你今天順利 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3366.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3371.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
謝謝我們感謝牛西廷委員質詢 我們請張志倫委員好謝謝主席各位媒體各位官員大家早有請這個中選會主委提名人游盈榮教授請游教授 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3393.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3412.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
好 教授好首先恭喜你成為中選會被提名人也預祝你可以順利當選那教授容我稱你教授那教授過去這個本席對你的了解不管是從這個電視上或是一些民調當中去了解您 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3413.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3441.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
那當然您對這個在去年的時候針對於這個大罷免的亂象你也公開提出這個批評甚至非常誠實的說這是對民主的傷害您的說法是執政黨就是參與發動這場全面性無差別的大罷免企圖奪回國會主導權不僅是台灣民主主流的民意的反對也會被其他民主國家不能接受 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3442.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3462.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
所以這個意思就是說大罷免不是民主之光反而是台灣民主之恥這是您說的嗎是 我講過是 好 那本席在這邊必須要稱讚您就是你願意講真話的風骨本席予以高度肯定那這邊我本席也要特別講在台灣這個民主史上不管是選舉 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3463.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3487.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
罷免或是公投在選舉制度上其實是蠻完整的一個制度可是在罷免跟公投上過去產生出了很多問題尤其在罷免上就您的這個評論來講就是執政黨其實利用了罷免裡面很多的漏洞來去做一些這個政黨政治的一些對決跟一些操作所以本席想要這邊特別跟你請教尤其是在罷免 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3489.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3507.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
這個每一個民意代表當選一年內可不可以執行罷免的這個連署的時候其實這個法是無明文規定的可是會造成這個社會上的一個對立所以本席必須要說選舉投票是一個民主的行為可是罷免它是一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3509.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3537.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
政黨的一個對決而且造成社會分裂而且是長期會造成一個情熱的問題投票你投誰大家非常清楚嘛而且這是秘密投票大家不知道你投誰可是罷免如果你沒有去連署的話會造成無盡的情熱啊而且說你沒有罷免我遇到很多民眾跟我講說他就是不想要連署罷免可是被民眾這樣子要求說一定要罷免要去簽連署還有一些攤販跟我講說他如果沒有去連署罷免他會人家會跟他恐嚇說 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3538.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3560.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
你這樣子我的生意讓你做不下去喔所以我覺得在當選一年內去做這樣子的這個罷免的連署喔其實就是現在整個制度上的一個漏洞那我看到你的報告裡面也有想說你未來會倡議說不能去進行這樣子一個動作請問你有沒有一些具體的做法或是未來可能會跟內政部去討論這樣的事情以目前的制度來看這個對於 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3568.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3594.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
罷免的規範是在選完一年之後也就是說當選一年之後才能夠進行罷免但是法律沒有禁止社會對就是說有相關的罷免的言論主委你同意這樣子這個不說言論是大家言論自由可是進行連署的一個方式您自己本身也是不贊成的對吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3594.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3616.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
我不贊成連署因為可以倡議那是言論自由那但是如果這個進行連署的話那就會對於我們想培養的這樣的一個成熟的政治文化是有傷的 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3617.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3635.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
謝謝主委謝謝教授教授你講的我覺得其實就是我們的心聲為什麼因為其實當時這個連署的一個過程造成社會分裂而且很多民眾其實被情的恐嚇這樣子的狀況其實非常的不好那也希望說未來你有機會擔任主委的時候也要多倡議這樣的行為變成說謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3637.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3656.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
那第二個我相信很多委員今天都有在跟你請教就是有關於不在籍投票的一個部分那不在籍投票其實目前其實我覺得這是非常重要因為現在就針對很多在投票所的工作人員他們其實有時候他們現在也是可以不在籍投票是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3657.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3675.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
所以現在的行之有年就是很多的工作人員其實在投票所的時候他們是可以進行不在籍投票所以本席有看到你的報告裡面寫說未來可行不在籍投票的順序第一個是移轉投票針對限定境內或身份特殊或者是戶籍地 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3676.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3697.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
在外的一些選務人員未來可以來考慮或者是在特定身份的不在意投票比如說這個援助民族或是服勤的警消人員等等我覺得這兩點我覺得非常重要因為第一個很多的公務人員或是警消人員其實他們的工作地跟戶籍地是不一樣的地方所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3698.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3725.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
這個部分本席也支持非常強烈支持您這樣的主張那是不是有一個期程說如果是不是可以先通過比如說我們一般的這個公務人員或是警消人員他們可以先來辦理這樣子的一個不在籍投票是不是可以請您回答是根據中選會最近的這個研究跟思考中選會是建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3726.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3746.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
不在籍投票先从单一的公民投票开始实施然后逐步的累积经验之后进一步推广到各项选举所以就这个角度来讲我觉得这样的一个态度是神圣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3746.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3766.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
是負責任的所以未來是不是能夠什麼時候哪一年能夠有一次公民投票然後在公民投票裡面試行不在籍投票然後我覺得那會是一個很重要的開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3767.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3790.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
好 了解 就是先從公民投票先起然後之後可能再就不特定人再來就是可能有進步有機會可以全面好 那我也希望主委這邊加速來實行那最後一個問題其實 針對其實當時我們這個立法院其實有決議一個這個公投的一個主題叫做反廢死 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3791.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3813.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
公投那當時是被中選會來就是否定這樣子的這個題目那因為當時這個議題有對很多民眾來講是非常的重要因為當時大家看到很多的這個殺人事件覺得說這樣現在的現在的民進黨政府就是不願意對現在比如說一些的案件去這個判死刑所以當然民眾覺得很 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3814.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3842.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
不能接受所以當時立法院才有這樣子的一個提案然後沒有想到被當時的中選會給否決那我想要請問主委當然你們否定也沒有當時你們有自己的理由啦那是不是針對這些民眾所關心的重要的這個公投的議題未來是不是有一些可以大家可以溝通的機會而不是說中選會直接把立法院提出的這些公投的主題直接給把它否定掉是 這是一個很複雜的問題我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3845.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3872.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
未來應該要多做溝通我覺得會比較好否則這裡面牽扯到太多複雜的問題沒有溝通的話引起強烈反彈對社會也不好好 謝謝教授聽到非常開心有機會第一次跟你這樣子面對面的質詢也期待你可以未來有機會可以當我們中選會的主委謝謝你 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3878.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3899.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
謝謝我們感謝張志榮委員質詢我們家張宏祿委員我請我們的游主委加油教授 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3908.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3922.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
首先質詢前還是要稱老師好啦好 張委員好游教授是我大學的老師其實我很多的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3926.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3946.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
這個政治學的東西都是游教授教導我的所以今天這樣問我是有點尷尬但是還是要問我想請問一下很多的委員也都有在關切這個不在即投票 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3947.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3967.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
但不在一起投票其實分了很多種大家現在一直在講一直在講其實慢慢的好像聚焦在移轉投票台灣現在大家一直慢慢聚焦在移轉投票其實我們中選會辦的就是選政的工作我們的選務的工作其實都是地方選委會在第一線在辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3968.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3992.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
那選政的工作我們就是說我想要請教游教授就是說其實台灣現在已經有部分的移轉投票我們投開票所的工作人員就有移轉投票那如果貿然的 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3994.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
4020.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
要大規模的這個移轉投票我個人 我一個很擔心的問題我想不出解方也沒有任何人可以提出任何解方未來如果移轉投票變成是選政的一個改變的話我可不可以指定某些人去某個投開票所我去那邊投票跟開票 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
4021.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
4033.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
會不會有這種可能發生要看選區吧要看選區如果我為什麼要這樣講會變成買票 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4039.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4063.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
買票的人 我要求你收了我的錢你去特定的投開票所投票我買幾票 你沒有開出來幾票你就是給我跑票未來會發生這種情況如果發生這種情況我不知道各位被提名人你們有沒有解方 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4065.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4085.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
我相信目前都沒有解方啦我不知道教授您的看法我這樣講好了不再急投票我剛剛說的是世界的潮流民主國家採行不再急投票非常多那我們台灣在這方面其實已經落後很久了 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4091.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4120.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
所以要迎頭趕上我覺得在道理上是說得過去的不在即投票你讓許多無法返鄉的人去在他居住地投票這說起來社會上普遍也是會贊成的但是我也同意張委員剛剛所說的這可能會產生很多的問題包括你說的買票 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4122.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4140.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
這是因為我們台灣從來沒有實施過不在籍投票所以我們不知道會碰到什麼情況所以在這樣的情況底下事先當然應該做好非常周全的研究調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4142.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4167.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
然後考量各種因素然後再來進行我覺得目前中選會所提出的這樣的一個解決方式我覺得是可行的就是說我們要循序漸進不是一步到位我們一開始就在九合一選舉裡面全面性的弄不在即投票這個是太 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4169.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4192.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
太大膽而且太冒險的作為報復平和不足為訓是不是可以未來從公民投票開始先從那裡開始實施然後逐步的累積經驗然後解決了 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4193.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4205.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
我們社會或者是很多人們的疑慮我覺得這樣子分階段一步一步的走會是比較好的做法我也是這麼認為我覺得我們先從公投先對視 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4210.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4228.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
對勢來移轉投票 為什麼呢我也覺得這個不再急投票很多的國家都這樣做那台灣要不要跟著做我覺得這是一個很崇高的理想我也不反對但台灣有特殊的買票文化 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4229.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4248.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
美國會買票嗎不會吧對不對但台灣這個買票文化我們從報紙上就看得非常的清楚到處都有在買票幾十年來都是這樣那如果我們對人的選舉也實施移轉投票 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4250.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4272.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
我們的對岸中國我跟你講透過大規模的買票這個是對台灣一個非常嚴重的一個災難所以我個人我是認為對全國性的公投事情我們可以先來做做看為什麼我要這樣我必須再說我辦過選舉我是 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4275.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4294.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
縣選委會的總幹事我當了四年從村里長的選舉到總統的選舉我都親自辦過我跟你講 選務的複雜程度啊超乎大家的想像我們連一張選票連那個有汙損或印得不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4295.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4315.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
我們要一張一張選票這樣去看從頭到尾看到尾那個每個人壓力有多大如果你要移轉投票我跟你講問題太多了我要光說一個你連投票通知單 你選舉公報他要移轉去那裡 要誰去送到時候他說我沒有收到 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4317.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4338.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
這個有很多技術性的問題所以我必須要說移轉投票不是不行但不能照進照進會把台灣馬上一次垮掉如果一次選舉的不公平大家以後對選委會這個公信力就不在我常講一句選委會 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4340.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4356.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
如果你要辦選舉我多給你人多給你錢很多技術性是可以克服的但公信力是最重要的一件事選務公信力三個字是最重要的所以我還是覺得主委教授 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4358.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4375.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
如果你的看法也是一樣就是從事情先來我覺得應該是先朝這個方向不可以一次太躁進不知道教授的看法我完全同意你的看法我覺得這樣做對台灣是比較好的好 謝謝謝謝我們感謝張宏祿委員接受我們請黃姐的委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4395.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4399.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
好謝謝主席我們請游盈隆被提名人加油教授 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4408.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4428.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
好黃委員好是好 邱董事長先跟您請教這個不在即投票其實您剛剛已經有提到一個重點就是說不在即投票雖然世界各地有很多國家在施行但是我們不一定要這樣冒進而且如果直接用九合一大選來貿然的進行的話會是一場災難 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4430.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4445.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
這是您剛剛的論調那我在這邊也想要附和這個論點因為其實大家也知道說選舉的公信力是最重要的那選舉如果我們九合一大選直接開始施行不在籍投票的話您剛剛是說會增加9000種選票是嗎就選票的種類來講是將近9000種 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4452.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4481.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
是的這就是一個非常重大的技術性的問題所以我在這邊想請教的是你們有沒有先算過如果九合一大選只要直接使用不在籍投票會要增加幾倍的經費幾倍的人力多少個投開票所因為我還沒有上任我只是努力的去收集相關的訊息我不知道中選會是不是已經評估出來我目前手邊沒有這樣的資訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4482.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4508.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
好那我在這邊先提供一些資訊喔在2021年內政部其實有大概統計過就是說如果這一些就學就業沒有涉戶籍那可能會因為不在籍投票而可能可以投票的人大概第一名是在雙北大概就有37.4萬人那第二名會在台中有26.5萬人第三名是桃園有26萬人第四名是台北有18.5萬人 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4510.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4532.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
那如果這些人通通來申請這個不在籍投票大概就是會增加大概百萬人以上那這個是2021年的數字那台北市的選委會當時也有出來說光是這個投開票所可能就要增加三倍以上那如果現在年底就要來做這件事情的話您覺得可行嗎您就一個選務機關的考量來說選籍 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4538.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4559.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
2026地方選舉是11月28號舉行今天正好1月28號 就是10個月左右我覺得直覺上是不可行的事實上最近中選會也曾經行文給各地方的選舉委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4562.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4582.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
各地方選舉委員會也都回報關於不在籍投票地方的態度沒有一個選委會是同意在這一次採行不在籍投票的所以地方事實上也是挫雷彈 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4583.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4613.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
是嗎因為就我剛剛說的光是台北就說要增加三倍了更不用說其他像是新北台中這一些可能不在籍的人口有大概三四十萬人的這一些選區喔那所以我覺得這當然是一個很大的技術性的挑戰但是話說回來剛剛其實有一句話我其實沒有很認同是剛剛這個有董事長說我們台灣沒有實施不在籍投票跟國際上相比來說是落後的 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4614.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4642.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
那我必須要說其他的國家跟台灣的情況大大的不同啊你不能拿台灣的情況跟世界各地來比啊請問其他國家有中共借選嗎有一些想要試圖來破壞我們台灣民主的這些境外勢力嗎沒有嘛那再來其他的國家有像台灣這樣經歷過這些什麼中立事件等等買票做票的過去選舉舞弊的歷史嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4642.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4663.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
也沒有嘛所以台灣的過去民主的歷史是非常艱辛的我們是這樣一步一步大家靠著人民的信任人民的爭取那我相信游董事長過去也是經過這些民主的事件努力撐起台灣的民主的所以一直拿國外來跟台灣比較我覺得非常的不公平 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4663.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4677.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
那台灣現在需要的是一個非常可信穩定而且有這個選舉公正性的民主制度所以任何的變革我認為都必須要在非常的可信而且公正的基礎上來進行選務的變革沒有不行 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4680.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4706.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
但是前提非常非常的重要因為台灣的民主很辛苦我們是這樣撐起來的所以在這邊還是拜託我們這個游董事長如果要回答說不再投票是國際的趨勢的時候拜託想想台灣自己特殊的歷史拜託想想台灣過去是怎麼走過來的所以不要一味的說要跟國際上來比較這真的不是一朝一夕可以做到的 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4706.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4720.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
那最後會有一點時間我跟您請教這個公投綁大選因為過去有董事長一直都是支持公投綁大選的所以在這邊想請教那如果您未來上任之後您還是支持公投綁大選嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4722.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4740.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
我當然支持公投綁大憲而且也沒有不支持的空間因為法律已經修正了所以我在這邊就要請教的是沒錯因為這個藍白還是強行的又再次通過了嘛那我要請教的是那您要怎麼務實的解決過去2018發生的邊開票邊投票的問題開票到半夜三點的問題以及這些因為人綁事而造成這個沒有辦法好好的討論公投議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4751.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4778.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
以上這些問題直接民主是民進黨的核心價值我過去二十幾年來當我是一個民進黨黨員的時候我實際的參與相關的事務無數的民主前輩為了能夠實現公投犧牲奉獻他們的青春生命自由 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4779.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4801.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
所以公投是一個民進黨的核心價值是所有的民主國家應該要追求的是的 我們都認同我們也非常支持公投制度所以我在這邊跟您請教的是如何防範重演2018邊開票邊投票以及開票到半夜三點以及這些可能會影響選舉結果的可能的情況再度出現 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4803.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4831.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
2018年是一個噩夢而且這個噩夢的形成有一些條件支持其中一個那您如何預防未來不會再重演呢這是一個選務機關最重要的工作我可以說明一下嗎2018那一次有十項公投這十項公投選委會公告之後一個多月而已就要投票 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4832.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4852.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
所以造成整個秩序大亂 這是其中一個所以這一次 經過這幾年來朝野的共同體認之後修法所以將公告之後一個月就投票 改成三個月這是一個很重要的改變第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4854.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4877.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
以前辦理那麼龐大的選務一半法律規定一半是要軍公教人員現在也修正成三分之一只需要三分之一所以我在這邊希望您可以承諾既然公投綁大選是您的立場也是您的責任那未來希望你可以承諾在你的任內絕對不會再發生2018的噩夢我們盡力而為這個要請你保證謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4883.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4898.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
好 謝謝備題名人 謝謝黃建委員好 接下來有請王美惠委員主席男嘉游教授有請備題名人 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4905.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4917.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
王委員好你好在這幾天的過程當中我們有看到你的履歷剛才你說到你人家告訴你要做檔門這個節目的時候也有一邊高興 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4925.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4947.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
也有一邊為了理想而走因為在這個過程當中我們的選舉委員會中選會是要有中立的在剛才本席所聽的好歡樂的就是覺得大家都想你長久以來是在民意教育基金會裡面擔任當事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4950.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4955.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
剛才有很多委員請教說你可以當時時你說你如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4962.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4975.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
這個人事案過 過得馬上死因為我覺得好的理想雖然是夢死 有的人也說你每天都在批評民進黨那是怎麼來做這個因為我覺得有擔當的執政黨裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4987.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
5010.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
應該無論他是我什麼人 他是北平什麼人今天我們要做政府單位是看他的認知所以在這裡我保證 我在這裡也是國民黨也是我們的朋友任何一黨都是我們的朋友為了理想 為了建設 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
5012.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
5018.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
我們都要做法表這是最好的 如果不做朋友 我們也沒辦法不可能說法表當中 你的總選委跟你不共同 不一樣的想法 你就不採納他的意見跟他的想法 大家討論之後 才可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
5036.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
5047.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
有好好的問題出來所以在這個過程當中最重要最重要在那裡大家差不多都說不再舉投票高雄你有說 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
5050.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5055.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
可以為公道開始但是在這個過程中你剛才有回答過跟我們是怎麼理會一般人會亂吵吵會這麼多人會開票的時候又有人又要投票因為這種我相信在你的代言之下以後可能不會再來發生也不是可能而已一定不會再來發生 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5077.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5092.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
在不在一起投票的時候有很多人歡樂的就是像我們的孫悟寧原譬如他在黨區做孫悟寧原像我自己來說 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5094.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5106.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
他在當局的補考在當局的 但是他算不領完譬如是在第一樓的票箱第一樓的票箱不是他應該到的地方 因為他有申請嘛但是在這個過程裡面 你覺得他最高興的就是議員都一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5119.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5128.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
市長都一樣縣和里長不一樣他這張票如果沒投出來是人家縣的里長還是他沒投里長大家都知道所以告訴你 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5136.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5163.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
在這裡面我就是說我們教育也好 全國也好我們今天是要講全國的 但是我是批論這個情形給你聽因為我們中華民國的台灣的選舉是大家最近都認為最好的雖然是很古早 但是改進到有夠好的因為我們那些黨議會 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5165.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5175.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
就是我們有一個派出兵在派出兵當中有時候會應用到選舉因為我常常說好的人才認真發表的民意代表我們一定鼓勵他當選但是在這個過程當中不再是投票有時候會去應用到選舉的結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5192.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5198.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
所以在這要問教授不再審投票本身跟你說因為有時候選票票數也很多也有現在都回到選票票數也有但是在選票票數你如果在本層第三張很多選票票的人在那裡大他不覺得什麼他如果兇勇去申請一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5219.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5225.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
我自己人都沒有在那裡的票檔我今天的票投出來這樣才算閉路投票啦告訴你來會談我所有擔心的事情我們大家來做參考因為未來這可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5241.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5260.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
也會逐一去改善來翁委員所擔心的一個秘密投票可能破功出問題這確實是一個問題要去注意另外就是說你一開始的計較說我批評民進黨很多我在這裡向翁委員報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5268.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5274.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
我都是九十輪輸 沒特別去批評民進黨我也是批評共產黨 對啦我也是批評共民黨 高師傅我現在你可能 國會有我的意思高師傅我現在是說以我民進黨的 有人說跟你們去提名這一點點要批評你 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5288.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5291.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
我來說民進黨會出的任財不分什麼 不可以說跟他批評我們說我們不好我們就不體面他啊 因為他有他的專財嘛我剛才是說這樣 因為我認為很多人都說過的 欠費到買廢人 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5313.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5315.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
所以我要跟你說的就是有這個生活我相信你也聽到了你說的說 你說的事實但是有的人覺得說有需要 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5327.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5332.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
這樣做嘛這時候我覺得說要讓這個國家愛好像你這個領袖一定很讚的啦我這時候要問你不再只投票你要怎麼去改善本縣兩個 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5345.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5347.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
會擔憂啦 憂及濫捕人如果去到台北 我再跟你說有兩個地方有很多嫁給人 那都沒差那挑剔憂心裡 我才剛才還說如果派出兵 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5359.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5365.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
我們的生活他有辦法用另外一個生活這個票房跟你們的小家庭你們兩個阿嬤去住而已這要怎麼處理這才是最重要的啦跟我是來講 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5375.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5377.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
前幾天我是想問是怎麼邀請你來 因為你有你的專長我認為批評不是壞的 批評可以讓一個人改變他的生活可以做得更好 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5395.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5398.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
這是在我都覺得很關鍵的像我 我有時候也會覺得說我們做得不好應該要怎麼做才對啦來謝謝黃委員的指教 全份了解這個不在即投票 我剛才也已經跟大家報告在這裡再說一次就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5419.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5436.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
不在即投票是一個很複雜的事情不是說發作就去做那是會造成很大的問題像這災難所以要循序漸進中商會有提出一個完整的草案給鄉長 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5438.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5459.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
行政議也通過 交給立法院所以是不是可以用風雄來努力累積經驗來盡量檢討它可能造成的問題包括翁議員你所說的 閉閉投票這種很重要的事情對 剛才我還有兩三個問題我想我這幾天的時間也夠了待會我們再來探討 希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5466.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5483.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
我們可以做得更好因為我的想法就是不管你是來自在座的也有很多特等都提出的人才所以我們應該是樂觀青春可以讓中選會加入去做更好的事情不是在這裡說分什麼黨的 怎樣怎樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5490.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5503.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
這樣是不應該的 如果要問什麼東西在座的都不可能今天來到這裡 以上謝謝王美惠委員 那要提名人請回交接一下我們這裡陳佩儀委員之行 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5520.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5549.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
好謝謝主席那有請貝提銘仁貝提銘仁好董事長早安我剛剛坐在現場聽了非常多的委員跟您請教了關於不再急投票你的立場非常的清楚就是不再急投票如果貿然實施會是一個大災難那我們就接下來看大家都沒有想到的一個問題我覺得非常的可怕 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5550.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5568.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
不確定董事長你有沒有注意到在去年11月我們立法院在藍白惡意強力主導之下通過了公投綁大選而且他說投票案公告成立後一到六個月就要舉行公投這個是針對人民的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5569.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5590.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
可是呢公投法又有規定董事長他說如果是總統交付或是立法院或是行政院提案的特殊公投案不適用相關的頻率跟日期的規定就是沒有一定要兩年才能辦一次所以我可不可以假設一個情況請中選會想一想也請董事長你考慮一下怎麼回答第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5591.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5617.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
假設今天真的有立法院藍白黨團惡意再提出一個在今年年底大選以前就來提出一個立法院本身提出的公投案然後逼你們中選會因為剛剛主委你一直被提名人你一直說你支持公投綁大選那我就看年底選舉的時候只要立法院藍白黨團對中選會提出相關的公投案不管是什麼主題 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5618.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5640.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
那你們就要處理喔可是你剛剛跟我說你支持公投綁大選這是第一個情況那年底就會有九合一大選加上公投綁大選這是第一個困境第二個困境假設我在想像一現在網路上有非常多人在帶風向跟有相關於情討論相關幕僚可不可以讓我問完讓我問完因為第二個問題比較難 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5642.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5656.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
好 第二個問題第二個問題就是假設有人他發起一個運動叫做我假設年底真的有兩種票可以投一個是公投票一個是九合一大選票可是我只申請移轉不再期投票部分我只申請公投 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5657.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5679.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
的部分可是我不在我那個九合一大選我還是繼續在我的原戶口地方投然後呢我就開始在網路上製造一個輿論叫做是你們中選會為難我你害我只能放棄某一種選票因為可能我一個票在台北一個票在花蓮可是假設我當天又沒有辦法兩地趕著投票那他不去問他自己為什麼要操作這種行為 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5680.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5706.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
他就會問中選會假設您真的當選主委之後這絕對會是一個難題請不要說我可能過度惡意的想像我必須說現在的台灣社會確實有非常多人是刻意要製造混亂製造國內的不團結甚至在這種看起來像民生事務上給相關行政機關你們造成困難就算中選會是一個獨立機構請問被候選人被提名人你怎麼看 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5707.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5734.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
首先關於公投綁大選的大是大非的問題他不是大是大非不好意思董事長我認為他是一個相關配套因為辛苦的是我們基層的選務人員就像您剛剛一開始有說他會動到非常非常多選票的規劃從2004年民進黨提出兩個公投綁大選也都很順利的舉行了 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5736.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5760.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
2008年民進黨提出兩個公投綁大選國民黨相對也提出兩個四個案也順利辦完了公投綁大選今天碰到的問題是2018的那一場災難因為那一場災難所以大家想說怎麼樣避免災難重現 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5762.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5790.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
我剛剛跟大家報告說 其中2018年為什麼是獨特的我也希望它是獨特的 不會再發生了那是因為它件數這麼多 十個然後又是在中選會公告一個月多一點的時間馬上進行投票 所以整個選務大亂所以在這種情況底下 我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5793.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5803.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
抱歉讓我這樣講西方有一句話不要倒洗澡水連嬰孩一起倒掉意思就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5813.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5822.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
公投是重要的跟選舉綁在一起利益甚佳而且過去的經驗也證明說是可以沒有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5823.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5848.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
所以我剛才進一步跟您請教因為我時間有限我等一下會被主席請下台所以我剛剛問假設有人立法院提案就要在今年大選的時候他真的就有公投題目可以一起投然後又有一群選民假設他真的要惡意操作製造台灣內部的分裂跟不團結氣氛那我就申請我的公民投票部分我可能在AD可是我的九合一大選我還是回到我的戶籍地 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5849.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5866.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
然後到最後說是你們中選會害他不得不拋棄其中某一種投票的權利請問我們怎麼預防這個問題我認為現在的困境就是各種荒謬的狀況真的都很有可能在台灣發生從立法院開始到很多不同黨籍的委員尤其是在野黨的委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5867.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5886.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
斷了製造非常多分裂跟惡意的這種對話跟論述所以我必須要提出這麼看似很荒謬的問題但是不可能因為只要是立法院提案或是行政院或是總統交付特殊的提案他就可以不用受兩年頻率這個限制是 我也很希望這種很獨特的狀況不會發生 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5889.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5905.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
但如果發生了呢我也希望不要發生那如果發生我也希望不要發生目前這個所以主委您聽被提名的聽懂我的意思了對不對我當然充分了解您意思中選會公告之後三個月目前新的法律規定是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5906.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5935.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
對啊所以他只要在下個會期立法院只要有人惡意要操作這個題目我們立法院真的就可以提出一個公投提案然後逼你們中選會表態你們要不要支持這個公投提案讓他走入公投然後年底的時候就公投綁大選我們沒辦法處理政治問題中選會處理行務問題那所以我剛剛說嘛好那假設回到人民我剛剛的意思就是說我陳培餘的戶籍如果在花蓮我就回去花蓮投九合一可是我公投的題目我就把它移轉到台北我住的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5935.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5958.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
那最後我創造一個輿論跟氛圍就是是你們中選會害我不得不拋棄其中一種選票因為就是在去年藍白惡意主導公投綁大選硬要這樣通過所以我認為更多的惡意操作都是有可能的那我基於一個負責任的民意代表我認為我有需要跟被提名先討論這個問題當然相關的惡意的做法可能不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5959.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5977.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
在您的想像當中但是我現在就先提出這個疑問當然我相信後續的很多討論跟配套假設在事件發生之後真的要拜託你們假設你們都能夠成功通過被提名然後成為中選會的委員當然這就是你們要頭痛的事情但我想我身為一個民主的後輩過去看您非常多民主的成就 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5977.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
6000.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
我必須要在這裡跟您報告過去這兩年來在這一屆立法院確實就很有可能有相關惡意的操作那甚至有相關的支持者就予以配合他真的就會出現我的公投票在台北而我的九合一回到花蓮然後我就說是你們中選會害我只能投其中一種票以上這是我給您的建議好 我們會留意這方面的情況好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
6002.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
6014.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
謝謝我們感謝陳培宇執行我們現在吳石瑤立委執行謝謝主席辛苦了有請我們有備提名人現在有備提名人 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
6030.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
6032.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
我想我破題非常清楚當政治越紛擾的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
6049.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6078.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
中選會的選務就要越公正超越黨派而且要守憲合法這是每一個從政人員我想未來大家有機會如果通過同意權我們在宣誓的時候的誓詞就是於誓以至誠恪遵憲法效忠國家代表人民依法行使職權所以超越黨派跟守憲合法是重要的下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6080.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6097.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
我這邊列出來私藥自己認為的成功的選務的三要素他當然要是公正的他也是要效率的他更要能夠變明這是選務成功的三要素我也認為中選會的委員的四個要件獨立行使職權 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6099.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6128.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
基於專業而且要能夠公正更要首先合法我的選務三要素跟中選會委員的四要件我們未來的這個主委提名人游老師應當都認可吧有沒有補充的完全認可好謝謝我要跟您報告思堯在努力的面向不談政治中選會有很多可以做得更好導入design thinking不曉得老師您對於design thinking有什麼樣的理解 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6130.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6157.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
Design Thinking沒關係 我來替您說明好了賈伯斯曾經說Design is not how it looksDesign is about how it works也就是Design Thinking不只是大家說設計美學事實上它是以使用者為切入點讓整個事情更有效率而且可以解決問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6158.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6175.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
所以我曾經因為台灣設計研究院是思堯在任內催生的一個新設的國家的組織透過設計的導入來攪動我們的公共政策也提升公共服務的效能跟品質所以設計院成立之後我們去跟很多部會敲敲門 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6177.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6191.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
我也帶著設計院去向前主委李敬勇先生敲敲門希望能夠導入Design Thinking讓我們的選務更進步更親民更有效率所以這是我當時2021年拜訪李前主委的時候來下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6193.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6222.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
而我們改變了什麼我希望未來的中選會的委員們都能夠持續來推動吳思瑤催生中選會CES設計院投入我們改革了選舉的很多的更進步更變明也更美學的這些做法第一個在投票動線的優化左邊是before右邊是after他更讓大家在有限的空間的移動更有效率就是design的導入 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6223.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6248.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
他在選舉公報的優化上 過去很多人說選舉公報要這麼細膩 排版就是非常的unfriendly所以我們找了設計師design thinking以後after是在後面非常清楚讓大家可以一覽所有候選人他的政見相關的學經歷這是設計導入的正向成果 下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6249.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6268.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
設計導入呢還包括這些標識系統的革新越美越清晰不會永遠都是標凱體不要永遠是中華民國美學而這樣的選舉美學我們獲得世界級的Good Design設計獎獲得亞洲最具影響力的設計獎 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6269.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6274.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
也獲得台灣的經典設計獎所以我希望未來的委員們都能夠持續的來優化這些design thinking導入我們的選務下一頁當然還包括 圈選票處我們真的也讓它更簡潔 更俐落 更好看而不是數十年如一日我們小時候真的投票就是這樣到現在立法院自己的圈選票處還是長一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6294.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6308.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
是可以革新的我想先就這個正面的分享給大家我想主委大家應當都可以如果後續需要思堯很樂意再串聯設計界跟中選會合作主委未來的主委OK嗎我非常的 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6314.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6339.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
因為司法委員剛剛有繞英文我覺得這個就是中選會未來需要的中選會未來需要我是一個進步改革主義者所以任何能夠進步能夠改革的都是好的事情選舉更有效率選舉更美學選舉更變明然後大家對於選舉去投開票所的心情可能也好起來很好 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6341.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6365.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
讓我再講一句我沒有想到我在今天來立法院可以看到這些新的觀念我簡直是Unbelievable所以立法院是有認真問政優質進步的立委而不是只有毀憲亂政的黨團很好下一頁當然不在即投票是今天的重點我剛剛講的選舉的三要素 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6366.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6380.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
公正效率跟便民提案的民眾黨團顯然只著重在降低選民投票成成本的那個便民的思考但是對於公正性跟選舉的效率他會造成選務的混亂甚至影響秘密投票甚至 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6381.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6404.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
也或多或少有境外借選風險增高的疑慮產生對於整個投票民主制度的信任危機所以呢絕對不能先求有再求好我們都支持行政院的版本您剛剛也說公投先行嘛好這是我們共同立場我們希望未來大家一起來捍衛這樣子的做法下一頁而以 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6404.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6425.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
我們行政院去徵詢了這些執行者選務機關的代表對於不在籍投票欠缺配套的狀況之下是all say no21縣市認為現在可以上路的是0個縣市甚至連民眾黨提案黨團他們自己執政的新竹市也認為不可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6427.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6436.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
所以呢過半的縣市也都支持行政院的版本公投先行我希望我今天要多花一點時間為什麼要跟主席多爭取一點時間因為民眾黨團的不在即投票他們就是這一屆立法院的壞習慣近乎二讀啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6444.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6463.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
委員會沒有討論啊直接不翼而決啊很有可能這週搞不好禮拜五又拿出來表決了所以今天有這個機會跟大家討論我就是希望能夠把這些數據告訴國人告訴社會台灣沒有一個縣市的選務機關認為不在即投票現在可以上路 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6463.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6490.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
NO所以我們就要審慎公投先行是多數的共識下頁而我們以投票意願這是我做的其實台灣的選舉投票率都是七成以上對於這些已經有不在籍投票有不同的可能是電子郵票可能是境外投票不同的行使的這些不在籍投票的國家台灣的投票率都是高的 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6491.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6509.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
除了南韓 南韓有他這一次總統大選不同的政治社會經濟的背景所以說不再投票並不是等同於高投票意願的這個思維我要在這裡論述 在下一頁更重要的是 未來這是大家的事情我們要辦一個讓人民滿意的選舉 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6511.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6519.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
而你看看台灣目前選務的滿意度2024年總統立委選舉84%的人民滿意給各縣市的選委會跟中選會拍拍手2022地方選舉滿意度83.2%2020總統立委選舉滿意度86.9%唯一一次就是剛剛未來的這個主委候選人說的 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6537.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6557.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
災難的2018的那一次公投房大學滿意度是28不滿意度高達68.6%這更要讓我們看到人民的聲音好我跳到我最後一個主題好嗎對不起因為有民調專家我還是想問一下這一題主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6558.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6566.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
我一直叫您主委他未來的主委你認為在台灣中共競選境外勢力競選的嚴重嗎有這麼難回答嗎我坦白講作為一個嚴謹的政治學者來講我要回答的是說感覺上很嚴重 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6586.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6598.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
事實上政府沒有找到非常多的證據來證明它很嚴重所以我覺得我們應該審慎地去評估這件事情因為主席站起來證據在這裡 證據在這裡看清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6602.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6618.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
法務部公布中國借選的手段境外資金的借選網路選舉的賭盤跟認知作戰假訊息的操作2024年被偵辦的依反滲透法的案件境外勢力借選117件287人這個不是證據嗎 主委 下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6626.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6639.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
而國民黨黨主席的選舉是自己自家的人跳出來批評的我就不再贅述了中國的借選變本加厲我們就是要欲提從寬料敵從嚴下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6643.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6659.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
各國都有韓國加拿大澳洲美國印度甚至在美國這種民主的國家中國可以利用製造假駕照的方式大量的協助中國的僑民去投票假駕照的方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6659.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6686.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
所以世界各國面對中國的借選都在進行ING的防範主委 我們不要掩耳盜鈴您是民調專家 我問您一個專業的問題現在都有民調禁制期在選舉前公布的日期您覺得現在是幾天 您知道嗎10天您認為如果要調整 同意嗎未嘗不可 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6687.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6704.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
未嘗不可 那調整到幾天是可以接受的幾天好您的我尊重 台灣是民主社會現在國民黨立委要調變三天啦太危險啦 太危險啦我們回到前一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6705.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6720.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
我們看看喔中國受益記者與退休教授捏造9次不實民調遭判刑司法判刑張顯耀先生涉嫌受中國指示發布講民調介入選舉遭起訴這都是司法偵辦換言之為什麼66%民主國家有選舉的民調 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6723.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6723.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
太短 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6747.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6770.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
太短嗎所以就專業論專業我覺得我們今天做一個非常好的示範沒有政黨立場我們超越黨派就專業論專業我們期待每一個委員都是獨立的專業的首先合法的以及能夠公正行使職權的最後一個提醒您提醒主席拍謝下一頁公投的那個這一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6773.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6779.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
國民黨提出修公統法要用公民覆決來推翻憲判主委你認為呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6781.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6809.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
這會是一個高度爭議性的問題所以我剛剛說中學會委員要守憲合法不問黨派守憲合法是基本的底線憲法78條司法院統一解釋憲法之權憲法訴訟法38條所有的憲法判決人民各機關都要服從而人民就包括公投行使的這些主體人民釋字185號也說明了不容挑戰用任何方式來推翻憲判 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6810.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6835.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
公投法第二條也規定公投的實施要遵循憲法的規定我要提醒大家未來的立法院一再的毀憲亂政要用公投法的修正來凌駕憲法未來這個難題可能會落在各位委員你們在審查公投案的當下我要提醒不看黨派不看顏色守憲合法是我們每一個人宣誓就職 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6838.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6847.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
的誓詞請大家謹記在心好謝謝游老師我今天多次稱呼您主委不好意思僭越了被提名人游盈隆先生我們一起加油謝謝謝謝我們感謝吳思堯委員質詢我們請黃建斌召委質詢抱歉讓你等很久謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6869.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6878.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
好 謝謝召委 主席我們先有請我們貝提名人游盈隆先生上台貝提名人游教授 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6882.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6898.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
老師好黃委員好老師好 老師因為目前還在這個人事審查階段嘛所以本席就先稱呼為有董事長其實我相信台灣的民眾對你都不陌生你過去擔任過民進黨副秘書長還有海基會副董事長那在政壇的 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6900.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6920.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
經歷非常豐富是我們的大前輩後來擔任台灣民意基金會董事長也經常發布民調跟時事的評論很多見解其實常常引起回響像是去年民進黨發動主導大罷免結果大失敗的時候你就非常直率的說大罷免是惡意的在排除在野黨 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6922.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6941.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
但是它不會被選民所接受然後你更直接的批評說民進黨推動大罷免毫無正當性那可以說是民主之詞那本是要對於你雖然出身民進黨但卻有足夠的勇氣來說出民眾的心聲並且給予我們執政者中肯的這個建議這件事情我們想要你格鬥的這個困難 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6942.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6967.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
那尤其身為現在身為中選會主委的這個被提名人擔任這樣的角色就是必須要能夠超越黨派然後克尊中立那帶領我們中選會發揮本來應該要發揮這個超然獨一的這個功能因為在過去我們中選會的中都被人家下面加一個新被批評是中心的中這個很一樣他不是中於人民是中於執政黨所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6969.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6983.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
舉例來說在大罷免期間很多立委辦公室都發韓文去中選會希望能夠提供一些相關的資料那中選會都用行政流程的理由然後一拖再拖就有這些不願意給立委提供給立委的這些資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6984.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
7008.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
甚至都還沒有經過中選會的這個會議的審議通過就霸團跟這些媒體都有辦法先拿到然後接下來就是在網路上公開然後帶風向那發生這樣的情況就是相對是非常明顯有違反這個中選會這個有違反這個行政中立甚至有泄密這個嫌疑那這也是為什麼中選會長期以來形象一直不好的這個原因之一就是因為他雙標讓他認為他雙標沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
7010.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
7034.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
做到這個客手超然獨立這個立場因此本席也希望說如果未來老師有順利成為中選會的主委一定要無往出眾那秉持客觀中立勇於對執政者提出建議說真話甚至批評的這個勇氣這是我們大家符合大家對你原本的這些期待那接下來本席要針對溫泉中有關於不在籍投票的議題來跟您討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
7035.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
7057.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
就是你在問卷中的回應是說不在即投票涉及憲法保障人民參政權擴大政治參與意義重大你舉雙手贊成這點本席給予肯定因為你的態度非常清楚明確就是說當你也聽到說不在即投票當然還有許多行政跟技術上的問題需要來克服那 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
7058.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7082.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
這個但是問題是身為選務機關的選務主管機關應該要站在守護人民投票權當出發點那努力去解決問題克服困體才對所以因此本席也希望說如果老師你就任主委的時候能夠更進一步積極的來推動不在籍投票特別是針對這個偏鄉還有原住民地區來優先實行那為什麼本席會這樣講因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7084.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7101.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
我來住台東 台東就是一個偏鄉我們很多人都在外面工作 求學 很多的原因所以在每次要回去投票要花很多的成本這成本不只是交通上的成本 包括時間上的成本跟主委分享一下 像台北到台東坐火車四個小時 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7102.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7119.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
那到台東市 你要到其他的鄉鎮可能還要一到兩個小時的時間他可能投票就要花一天的時間這個是都會區沒有辦法想像你可能早上出去投票三十分鐘 人家知道有什麼事情在外面講話要花一天的時間這是偏鄉很大很大的投票上的困難那像我們2024年的總統大選 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7121.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7148.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
的投票率我們全台東縣是62%相較全國平均是72%我們才有10%因為先本市才太廣所以會影響到人民投票的意願這是本市支持不再投票最主要原因那希望我們在外工作這些台東的子弟或讀書的學子能夠也能夠享有跟其他人一樣投票的權利不會因為距離影響了投票的意願最後我也要再呼籲一下游董事長就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7149.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7172.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
如果未來立法院審核通過你擔任中選委的主委我想也請你務必要保持過去一直保持的這個客觀中立勇於對執政者提出健眼的這個勇氣並持續地推動不再急投票落實憲法賦予人民的平等參政權也守護我們偏鄉民眾投票的權益謝謝博文請問董事長是不是可以來做到 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7173.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7196.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
當然 我覺得我剛剛已經講了不在即投票是世界的潮流 社會也高度關注身為一個政治學者也好 或者是一個知識分子也好我舉雙手贊成 但是我們還是要非常謹慎面對讓它循序漸進 不要追求一步到位否則會帶來很大的災難 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7197.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7215.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
對我們一起來努力啦 這可是真的 剛才剛才講的那些感受的地方我們剛才譬如要放鬆幾年那可能真的大家沒辦法 可是我也發電量所以我充分了解謝謝主委很正面的答覆 那我們一起加油那謝謝謝謝我們的備體兵人 謝謝召委 謝謝謝謝我們感謝黃建斌召委質詢我們請蘇巧 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7232.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7238.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
書面喔 好來 蘇巧惠 蘇巧惠不在 我們這裡有提名有委員抱歉 我想說我們的夢幻學生沒有看好 召委 我們議會同仁 請我們中選會被提名的人我們的主委我們的游老師 游教授 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7261.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7280.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
首先恭喜你啦被提名人但是我發早上很多人的爭議還是未來在網路上的假訊息包含不再去投票這是未來你當主委你要去推動要去承擔因為過去的九二一 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7282.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7298.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
過去的九合一上上界就是一個亂象那亂象的話你當一個主委你整個選舉的步調以及規劃都要很妥善現在整個中選會在這幾年 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7300.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7327.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
其實我們中選會我也是很肯定因為這幾年真的改變很多 國民黨的心目中真的有徹底改變但是未來不再去投票這是還要好好的去規劃還有在網路以境外的那個假訊息的問題假訊息的問題我認為主委你應該是一個學者出身應該對這個問題 你要怎麼去 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7330.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7354.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
第一時間你要怎樣去耗資怎樣去開發怎樣去下架這是未來你要做的是不是主委這一點你來做說明好不好謝謝吳委員的指教假訊息特別是在網路的時代的新奇是所有民主國家必須面對的巨大的挑戰 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7356.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7383.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
怎麼樣在假訊息衝刺之下能夠維持選務的公正性能夠讓所有的候選人還有選民都能夠獲得最好的保障這是中選會或是任何國家的選務單位必須面對的問題所以未來如果針對這個部分來說我相信中選會同仁 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7385.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7395.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
這方面經驗是非常豐富但是我們面對的是一個瞬息萬變的世界尤其是AI的時代所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7397.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7422.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
中選會怎麼樣能夠去面對這個問題中選會自己要有所節目但同時中選會是一個行政單位也需要立法院的強力的支持給予他 賦予他能力 賦予他資源讓他能夠應付這一個高度複雜而且充滿不確定性的年代 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7425.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7445.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
我們主委我們提名人真的你說這樣回答因為早過去中選會每次的選舉大多都是有一些網路的誤導以及境外的私立介入但是那時候很多都是反應中選會但是中選會還是沒作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7448.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7475.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
等到要有作為已經選舉完了這對候選人是非常的不公平所以這一點我要拜託我們未來的諸位這點一定要記著雖然是說我們要確保每一個好選人他們的反應例如說第一時間的反應我們都要立即的去處理這樣不做好選人他受到這真的是不公平啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7476.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7504.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
這一點 我再請教你 你說不在一起投票這一點 我聽剛才建平委員在執行你也是以我舉雙手贊成嘛那未來實施的時效是什麼時候目前中山會建議是這樣就是說從公民投票開始實施 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7506.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7531.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
從單一的全國性公民投票開始實施之後逐步地累積這方面的不在籍投票的相關的經驗降低它的弊端然後一步一步地推進到全國性的選舉包括總統 立委 甚至到地方的選舉這是需要一個過程 一段時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7532.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7548.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
不是立刻就去做事實上中選會也沒辦法決定我們立刻就去做中選會還是要遵循立法院制定的法律然後我們才能夠去依法行政但是中選會 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7550.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7573.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
秉持選務機關的立場也有責任和義務提供給立法院最充分的資訊這個可能面對的困難是什麼問題是什麼我們的建議是什麼我想這是中選會應該去做而且能做的好 謝謝我們當然啦我們中選會大家都期待嘛要有作為嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7574.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7584.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
這是大家共同的期待以及目標吧好 謝謝 請委員那我請行政院秘書長請秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7591.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7597.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
委員長 委員長 現在全國 因為我看我們的媒體在報導我們的沙石的問題廢棄物的問題 現在是非常的嚴重所以說在這個部分 應該是我們在中央要跟地方政府來做協調 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7613.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7625.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
包含說每一管區 他們都可以說設置一個掩埋場或是你說停台北港 就是說每一個地方也不要說讓砂石運到各縣市 這樣說變成一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7628.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7656.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
流竄又是一個亂道的問題所以說這個博文因為現在大家都反映說都是中央規定什麼都推給中央這對我們中央非常的不公平所以我認為行政院應該找地方政府大家來設置要怎樣來處理包含我們的填海照路包含我們的港口 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7657.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7674.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
港口旁邊很多要有我們的後櫃一些大型的工業區這都可以來推動委員跟召委可以給我差不多三分鐘來報告跟說明好不好這三小時的事情可以分三方面來跟大家報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7675.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7701.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
GPS的部分啦 現在中央的政策是你可以用中央無關系來進步或是環境部的GPS這可以進入 第二有很多地方原本就有用GPS 無關系手機或是車機都可以進入 我們用GPS雙軌制的方式讓能夠載運沙石土方的車子能夠上路去載 這第一部分第二部分剛才委員在追尋的 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7703.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7711.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
戰智場的部分 現在中央加密集在跟地方開會在協調 中央會找從北到南八個戰智場 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7713.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7737.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
包括台北港 台中港 漳濱工業區台南有一部分那高雄這邊也有這個南興計畫的土地我們中央找八個站置場希望地方也能夠進來這個協助管理車可以走 也是有地方可以走這是第二部分第三個部分是就簡正便民的部分以前是這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7741.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7754.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
土方出來 要先經過土資廠再到最終處置廠但是土方有些依照法規 也是有加料現在可以從這個出廠直接到最終處理廠又或者是在台中經過分析70%的部分是可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7758.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7786.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
賣掉的也能夠就地來做合法的交易我們從這三個面向來做還需要一些時間中央可以跟地方做的合作公共工程也好各種私人的工程也好能夠在合乎法律的規定之下讓土方的全流向的管制穩健的上路還需要一點時間中央地方會合作政府民間也會一起合作依從委員報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7788.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7811.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
好 謝謝你說一些可再利用的這種的大家都不要說一味的全部都規定的實施的這樣我就去解決他們的問題不然現在很多你說每次我們都會去都在推動建設包括公共工程甚至也是土方沒有武器處這一點就是他們都來帶我們陳情所以說我今天你 秘書長你有來特別幫你提起 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7817.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7838.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
好 謝謝有什麼歡迎再麻煩委員跟行政院來講我們會繼續拍片 謝謝謝謝我們感謝吳祁銘在這裡要讓我們的秘書長說那刷牌也要刷牌更加到位 更加關心 更加了解因為這個萬事失去 真的很不好來 我們請劉淑萍委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7849.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7858.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
好謝謝主席我現在請被提名人主委被提名的游盈隆教授游教授 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7866.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7890.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
郭教授您好您不只是政治學者你本身也曾經當過陸委會的副主委對於兩岸關係的法律體系還有國家忠誠的問題應該都有非常的了解我今天想要請教的一個制度性的矛盾就是陸籍配偶在台灣的戶籍滿了10年之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7891.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7918.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
依照兩岸人民關係條例呢他是可以參政的並且呢他也是經過中選會審查了具備了一個候選資格那另外呢但是我們看到是在國籍法依照20條呢他當選後呢在他的就任前或是一年之內呢必須提出放棄中國國籍的證明或是依照其他的法律規定來辦理否則就撤銷資格了那內政部長劉世芳呢他也主張可以參選但就任前 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7921.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7925.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
再用國籍法來去檢驗他的忠誠我認為有三個問題第一個是法律適用的問題兩岸人民關係條例是個特別法在跟國籍法發生衝突時是否應該優先適用呢那內政部 劉部長的說法是否已經有擴張裁量權 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7941.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7969.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
異越法律授權的這個問題那我先把問題說完那請這個被提名人游教授你就等一下再一起回應就我時間有限第二個問題就是參政公平性的問題那一個人可以參選後來當選但是最後是要高度仰賴對岸去要去出具這個文件然後才會被撤銷可是事實上這中共不會發的那是否會侵害到他的是陸配的一個憲法平等保障的這個參政權 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7971.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7998.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
那第三個就是說國家終審如何制度化這是民進黨非常重視的這個問題那終審應該的審核是在選前明確可預期的法律要求之下但是還是說他還會依據選後補件那如果拿不出來就撤銷那因此就想說如果要在最後的這個在這個相關的法律還沒有整合之前你是否認為就終選會應該主動的面對這樣一個法律衝突請劉教授回答 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
8000.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
8025.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
這的確是一個非常棘手的問題對中選會來講一方面來講 站在保障參政權的立場這個中選會會樂見所有的國民的參政權都被完整的保障但是兩岸關係是高度的複雜 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
8027.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
8054.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
相關的法例到目前為止也沒有就這一點有非常完備清楚的立法所以在這種情況底下就留下了一個模糊的空間這個空間內政部有內政部的主張中選會在這上面幾乎沒有去主張什麼的這樣的一個立場 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
8057.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
8064.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
但主觀上您作為一個學者作為一個學者我覺得兩岸是一個高度複雜的問題我覺得這個目前這樣的一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
8070.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8086.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
你就是侵犯他的公平參政權嗎這是好幾個價值牽扯在這裡面所以即便是在過去多年以來有國民黨執政時代有民進黨執政時代但通通沒有去根本解決這個問題所以這問題遺留下來這問題坦白講對中選會來講要交給中選會去處理這個是中選會沒這個能力 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8099.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8115.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
所以你們未來就是草獨立機關就不處理了是嗎不知道 我的意思是說那這個部分你應該是行政院這個可能秘書長要去回應那我現在問的一個問題更重要的是那特別法跟普通法的這個問題適用你應該怎麼看法呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8117.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8140.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
根據法律學當然我們在座有很多法律專家特別法是優於普通法所以兩岸人民關係條例但是這兩者因為兩岸關係高度的複雜牽扯著非常複雜的歷史的因果這裡面可能會衍生很多很多的問題就選務機關來講選務機關並沒有這種職權去做這個讓 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8147.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8168.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
所有的人滿意的這樣的處理我知道被提名人劉教授你就是現在在一個審查期間這個問題應該是民進黨非常care的問題的那的確也是有它的複雜性但是這個比較全國的人民包括學者專家必須好好去針對這個問題去好好去針對大家的部分要知道它的公平性 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8170.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8198.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
還有再一個問題在於說我們看到的是國內移轉投票的問題國內移轉投票涉及到的是又是一個價值非常重要的涉及到公平的平等權跟自由跟秘密投票然後也涉及到國家的信任那我剛才也聽到是主委是不是您對於一般我們民眾黨是提出來是國內移轉投票請其他的政黨就是尤其是民進黨不要去特別的去汙名化國內的移轉投票那請我想要說那個被提名的你針對 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8200.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8204.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
這國內移轉投票的話 您的態度是支持還是怎麼樣我支持啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8205.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8229.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
我完全同意 但是我覺得不是一步到位沒錯 沒錯 我後面繼續問下去那這個部分我知道你也在你的這個對民眾黨的回應報告當中有提到說他必須按部就班因為涉及到國家信任的問題還有安全的這個秘密投票問題那你的意思是說從先從公投開始嘛對不對包括是從到選舉的到原住民的地方到中央是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8230.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8247.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
好那重點是相關的問題包括說我們就他的一個配套措施就是說他對於秘密投票有被破壞的問題還有對選票保管跟運送的問題那就這兩點你是不是夠可能如果你當中選會的主委你有沒有什麼後續的一個配套措施規劃或是想法初步的現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8248.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8270.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
我還沒有上任中選會主委啦不過我已經很努力的在了解相關的狀況我覺得技術上來講應該是可以處理啦否則這個像原住民的這個部分已經有了初步的大院也已經通過了相關的法律來解決這個問題我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8275.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8284.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
這個基本上是不會有大問題所以是基本上技術性沒有大問題是不是願意要不要做行政機關這部分要不要做的問題我想要講清楚的就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8285.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8304.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
如果不在籍投票立刻就要實施在2026的這一次九合一地方選舉那是幾乎所有的人包括22個這個地方的選舉委員會就是各縣市六都都岐岐以為不可 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8304.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8330.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
所以應該要分階段然後實施之後能夠獲得社會的信心社會的信賴我們再來推展到選舉上面去所以大家可以預期如果您順利當選到中選會主委的話應該會提出中選會的版本半部就版了就實施可行性去進行嗎是我希望這樣子好 謝謝那另外最後一個問題這個主席先 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8333.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8351.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
包容一下好這地方就說您在您的民眾黨的回應的報告當中我提到說呢對於中選會對公投案的審查僅限法律明定要件不涉及到價值判斷不涉及到價值判斷那就是這部分嘛那請問是說如果是針對114年 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8354.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8381.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
在有送到中選會的就立法院的一個有公投案這樣子的案提到的中選會去做審查的時候這一個時候是針對說題目是您是否同意各級法院合議庭法官判處死刑不需一致決的政策呢這個立法院公投案假設您當時是一個中選會的主委您對於這樣子的一個案子是否能夠成案您的看法是怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8382.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8395.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
我觉得那一个案子对中选会来说我事后了解中选会承受了空前巨大的压力要做出一个正确的决定是非常困难的 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8396.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8426.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
但是我們也要注意到中選會不是立法院提出了前部否決中選會也同意也處理了河山研議公投是的所以有一個通過一個不通過我相信上一屆的中選會委員會有他們的相當完整的思維但是主委被提名人我是問您的看法我是問您的看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8426.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8452.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
我的看法對 這個議題我覺得這是一個非常困難的問題您這樣狀況是 您的初步判斷因為這涉及到的是在程序上面這部分你是指的 劉委員我再把題目說一遍 您是否同意各級法院合議庭法官判處死刑不需一次決之政策那這個部分是讓民眾去決定 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8454.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8479.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
所以他如果過程當中的程序上面並沒有違反的話應該是讓民眾去決定公投的意思就是在這樣子沒錯 我充分了解你的意思而這正好也就是觸及了或凸顯了目前台灣司法審查權跟直接民選 直接民主之間的衝突 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8481.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8509.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
所以這個問題到目前為止還社會還不是完全了解但是我覺得社會可以廣泛的去討論是不是公民投票的結果不能抵觸憲判這是一個很嚴肅的憲政的問題我覺得社會可以去討論但是上一屆的這樣的一個裁決我現在也算半個當事人我不便表達意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8510.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8536.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
好 這樣好 謝謝至少我覺得這個被提名的劉教授您提出出來之後您知道在現在在審查期間包括也是你過去的在民進黨的黨員後來你退黨但是你就知道說你自己有一個這個學者的價值這個風範我是覺得已經建立起來就是有一個高度肯定但我希望說您如果被立法院同意的話你就繼續的在這個位置上面就是在跳脫到政治堅守到行政中立 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8537.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8565.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
然後也重建中選 各界對於中選會的這樣一個信任因為大家都覺得中選會那個中是中於執政黨的那個中然後也落實到法定選務然後保障人民的實質參與這對你的期許這一點請委員放心好 謝謝游盈隆就是游盈隆 不會改變好 我們期待大家一起有目共睹期待OK 謝謝謝謝 感謝劉淑檳委員質詢我們王宏威委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8572.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8577.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
好謝謝主席我請我們被提名人游教授加油教授 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8583.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8604.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
好 游教授辛苦了我們委員好可以看到今天包含就是我們整個審查會裡面包含我們國民黨的委員對游教授也有相當多的肯定那我想請問一下因為游教授過去除了是政治學教授還有民調 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8605.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8633.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
那當然對於政治也有很多評論而且你過去長期當這個政府的烏鴉執政黨的烏鴉那譬如說在去年的大罷免的時候你有很多的評論你的評論是大罷免是台灣民主之恥而且你曾經痛批有兩大戰犯死不認錯就是包含民進黨黨團的柯建民總召還有沈伯陽委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8634.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8657.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
那你有提到就是大罷免是災難性的民主內戰那當然其實你的評論也不止於此所以你這一次在被提名的時候外界其實有很多人是驚訝的那甚至有一種說法是說你可能可以得到在野黨委員的票數但是民進黨內部很多人對你有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8658.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8681.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
所以您認為在這一次的整個的提名的表決過程裡面你目前評估你可以得到民進黨全數的票數同意你嗎這部分我不敢去評估不敢評估 所以有可能會有人跑票 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8682.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8699.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
我不知道好 那另外請教一下因為我剛剛特別提到了一些大罷免在這個過程裡面很多人就開始談到一些我們法律跟一些制度上的問題在之前我們通過了就是在聯署要付身分證 銀本 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8700.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8716.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
民進黨政府有來提出復議但是呢並沒有拿去釋憲所以這個應該已經是可以確定的這個行政院也沒有拿去釋憲然後我想請問一下我們還有一個版本就是呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8717.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8738.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
加一版本就是你的被罷免票數要多過就是被罷免要多過你之前之前的當選的票數才能夠確定被罷免那我不曉得游教授你對於這一個的修法版本你個人的意見是什麼 你同意嗎謝謝委員 我的看法是這樣第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8748.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8762.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
家父身份證這個是加嚴罷免權的刑事坦白講在某個程度上我是贊成的因為全世界各國國會議員是沒有什麼國會議員罷免制度的 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8767.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8786.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
沒錯啊所以就這個部分來講我純粹基於學者的立場我是覺得加嚴我是可以同意的那第二個就立委提罷免同意票需高於當選票我覺得這兩個不能夠相 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8787.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8797.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
不能夠不能相提並論對 不能相提並論所以你對於加1的版本你個人有疑慮 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8798.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8824.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
我覺得那個不合理好 你覺得不合理好 因為我們今天是審查必須把一些就是我們現在修法的過程要就教於你另外我看到你回答就是我們立法院各黨團的就是有關於罷免的部分我們在罷免的過程裡面有很多的不合理其中有關於是政治獻金因為我們自己是身為被罷免人 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8824.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8850.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
那因為我們是被監督的對象但是相對在政治獻金上就出現了一個極不平衡的狀態如果在選舉裡面不管是多少人參選每一個人都是受到政治獻金法的一個規範但是我們在這一次被罷免裡面其實整個的政治獻金是非常非常混亂的 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8852.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8873.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
我看到你的回答是說你也認為即便是罷免者包括領銜人也好或罷免團體他的政治獻金也應該受到一定的管理和規範所以我想請問你這個部分你要不要再講一下就是有關於政治獻金的規範你個人的看法是怎麼樣政治制度是嚴禁的 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8878.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8893.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
不是從一開始就完美無缺所以經過不斷的實踐實驗之後該修的是應該要修我個人的意見是被罷免 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8894.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8918.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
的人要受到政治獻金法的限制但是提罷免的人目前沒有任何的這方面的沒有任何規範所以我覺得未來是可以考慮修法雖然政治獻金法的主管機關並不是中選會但是這涉及了選務選舉跟罷免的公平性 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8918.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8942.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
的確 因為這樣所以我才表示意見好 所以你也認為這個應該修好 另外一個在這次罷免裡面有一個完全回憶於過去的做法這次中選會也被我們認為是極為不中立而且有政治辦案之嫌就是有關於在聯署告發聯署 錯假聯署的時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8946.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8957.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
過去事實上去年大罷免並不是第一次也不會是最後一次但是中選會過去歷次針對有關於罷免的錯假連署每一個包含韓國瑜 王浩宇 陳柏惟 黃婕 所有的 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8966.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8992.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
都是在投票之後然後去做告發每一個都是在投票之後去做告發唯有一次例外唯有一次例外就是在去年的大罷免大家可以看到去年大罷免整個去告發錯假連署然後去偵辦錯假連署大概都是史上這個最為激烈的一次那這中間就是跟中選會的告發時間有關 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8995.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9011.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
那到底這個告發時間應該是在聯署期間呢或者是在投票之後不要去影響最後的罷免結果其實應該要有一套制度的但是中選會當時就是完全違反過去的做法當然就被我們認為說這個是有政治辦案的嫌疑所以這個就是中選會的業務了 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9022.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9046.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
所以我想請問 我們主委被提名人如果你擔任主委 針對未來夾是有這個連署 錯假連署其實這個連署還不只是罷免 還有選舉也會有這個你是不是應該建立一套 一個可長可久的制度而不是隨著不同的情境而改變 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9049.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9066.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
對我來講這個時候要回答這個問題的確是困難的怎麼會困難我還是要回答這個問題這個一點都不困難吧我還是回答這個問題我自己也參選過所以我也知道其實選舉期間為了避免影響選舉 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9068.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9097.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
即便有嫌疑人涉嫌犯罪检调司法单位也都是事后侦办事前也有一些但是基本上不会这么做所以我不了解大坝棉去年实际的状况他们是怎么样做成决定我不了解那是一页沧桑史我觉得事后可以再去检讨改进 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9098.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9109.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
我特別指出這個這個其實完全是技術性的竊選完全是技術竊選有非常多種因為我時間到了不耽誤下面時間謝謝謝謝我們感謝王宏威委員資訊我們現在習新穎委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9124.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9129.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
好 謝謝主席我們請這個主委被提名人請阿佑教授 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9137.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9155.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
这个我们游教授好那本席想请教您这个您应该知道现在AI时代的来临那AI的身为技术也已经成为全球民主的威胁了 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9156.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9183.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
那您被提名为这个中选会的主委所以今天本席的质询要为我们的民主宪政找到疫苗那我们台湾民主的选举绝对不能被破坏也不能被不信任台湾的民主如果被破坏那就不战而亡这点您认同吧完全赞同对 所以近年来AI深维技术您 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9184.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9203.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
這個是不是有所觀察或者是您的了解是如何現在全球民主都受到AI身為技術的威脅很多國家都發生過類似的案例您有沒有一些體會或觀察的心得當然有我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9204.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9218.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
AIA所帶來的新的時代假訊息的衝刺氾濫這是所有的民主國家必須要去面對的而且是一個挑戰也可能是一個噩夢但是應該要嚴正以待 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9221.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9237.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
对 那现在我们的选罢法的机制大部分是事后追究责任那没有办法挡住选前特别选前24小时 48小时的这种假讯息的洪水 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9238.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9267.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
针对这一块本系想请教您是否支持您如果就任中选会主委之后能够主动推动这个选罢法的修订应该要纳入一些预防性的条款例如强制要求一些平台他一定要标记标记我这个平台展现出来的影片或是照片图像他是AI生成的内容而且 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9267.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9295.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
也要賦予中選會針對經過鑑識是身為的影音或是圖像呢有權下令做緊急處置針對這一塊您的看法是我的看法是這樣中選會只是一個不到60個人的一個單位長期以來這個努力於顯霧的行政那對於這一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9298.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9315.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
當前這麼巨大的一個時代的巨變所衍生的這些問題恐怕不是中選會單獨可以承擔的當然…所以我本席第一個主要的是說你如果擔任主委你是不是你可以推動一些修法 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9316.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9339.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
有法依據法令那相關單位就可以來進行那你中選會是很重要辦選務必須要公平公正甚至你要讓整個的選舉過程合乎民主程序所以您是否會主動推動選罷法的修訂納入針對現在AI身為的一些預防性條款 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9339.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9354.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
我覺得這是義不容辭會嘛 對應該這麼做但是必須要建立在這個非常好的扎實的研究的基礎上面然後才能夠提出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9356.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9382.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
當然 但是現在很多實務上非常的需要剛剛您也已經有稍微提到就是說整個的修法如果只靠中選會可能會遇到相關部會互踢皮球我想您大概也有預期所以本席也想請教您上任之後如何確保您跟NCC速發部的一些實質的合作 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9384.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9411.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
我們主觀上當然是願意的就是很多事情事實上就是跨部會必須要去共同面對的那是否願意發起跨部會的這種專案小組那來制定一套可操作的這個預防機制而不能讓我們整個民主選舉民主制度的這個防護網呢最後被破壞在中選會的職權範圍內 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9413.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9428.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
該怎麼做就怎麼做而且要全力去做好 這個大原則方向很好那現在就是說您如果就任後整個的修法如果來不及可是 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9430.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9457.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
馬上選舉就到了這個AI的假訊息爆發怎麼辦那中選會會不會有一些行政備案譬如說透過行政命令要求平台在選舉期間加強審核以及跟事實查核中心進行24小時的熱線等等這些問題我猜您大概還沒想過據我知道這個中選會這方面已經有一套做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9458.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9466.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
就是说上次我们才质询我们的召委王召委也很认同的我不知道中选会送来了没 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9468.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9487.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
我不曉得中選會送來沒有我現在是被提名人對 沒關係那您就表達您的立場我覺得就這個部分來講所謂身為的這些照片這些影響它是直接影響到選民跟候選人所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9488.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9505.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
中選會能夠做的大概是怎麼樣在第一時間降低它的傷害而不是根本上解決這個假訊息的問題中選會要主動積極建立這個綠色通道讓這整個能夠不受影響因為那樣的一個問題的存在是 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9506.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9535.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
跨政黨的噩夢不是只有哪一個特定政黨對 我們不是為特定政黨這個選舉的公平公正很重要那主委 所以這個AI的偽造像洪水猛獸我們希望預防勝於治療那中選會一定要主動修法不然我們的民主會淪為科技戰場的犧牲品這一塊我們希望如果您能夠順利擔任主委的話這個部分一定要落實而且堅持住好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9536.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9547.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
我們嚴正以待 嚴肅以待謝謝謝謝我們感謝習慶雲委員執行我們家葉研資委員麻煩請那個游教授游教授 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9566.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9590.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
右岩好右教授好 這樣跟右教授請教一下在我們選罷法裡面有規定如果要罷免的話要一年之後才能夠進行那你覺得當初選罷法會這樣子規定的原因是什麼為什麼不是立刻選完之後就可以搞罷免一定要一年後我猜想立法者大概也意識到不要讓當選完之後立刻面臨 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9592.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9611.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
當選人被罷免的情境不要說這個讓人家輸不起就搞罷免應該是這樣吧總是要讓人家做個一年看看做得好不好再決定要不要罷免但是在這個李靖勇前主委在這邊我也問過他一樣的問題他說沒有不可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9611.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9633.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
現在的法律是沒有不可以換句話說如果我選上了輸給我的人輸不起他可能覺得說在選舉過程當中有什麼失誤或他覺得他想要再拚翻盤的機會他在敗選的隔天他跟他的團隊就可以來搞罷免這個是我們現在法律規定就是這樣嗎您的看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9635.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9659.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
我看怎麼詮釋啦我覺得選舉結束之後如果有國民不滿選舉結果不滿當選人所以他會對他講出很多負面的話說要罷免等等等等那是屬於言論自由的範圍言論自由當然都尊重但是如果是由敗選的那一方或其政黨 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9660.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9681.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
在背後煽動發起的你覺得這有符合民主的常態嗎因為以目前的法律的規定事實上也是一年之後才能夠禁止罷免像中選會才能夠可是問題是輸的人他可以在輸的隔天就開始規劃 煽動然後搞大罷免 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9682.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9709.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
我們去年看到的狀況就是這樣雖然民進黨嘴巴不講是他們發動的但柯建民總召就很誠實嘛他在接受媒體訪問的時候就說在投票的隔天還是隔兩天就去找過賴總統啊這在他媒體訪問公開講的啊怎麼透過罷免去扭轉國會的席次嘛在我們那一區包括我們國民黨很多立委的選區都一樣啊發動罷免推動罷免最用力的就是輸的那一方嘛我那一區就是這樣啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9710.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9729.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
他的我在那個罷免說明會我有公開資料啊他輸給我的那個立委的服務處主任沒多久就成立了一個就加入一個這個罷免的社團在推動然後不然就是想要取而代之的民進黨的人主要在推動嘛那這是民主常態嗎你覺得是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9730.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9744.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
當然不是 這是政治問題啦對啊 那問題是法律規範不嚴謹或中選會的按住就會造成這樣反民主的狀況出現嘛所以如果說您當主委當然中選會是辦選務的機關但您也是洞見觀瞻啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9749.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9777.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
如果是您的話您覺得要怎麼去結合您的未來的職務讓這種反民主的狀況繼續發生我們只能夠依法行政就中選會的角度來講但是以我作為一個政治學者的角度來講我長期以來反對在國會議員的層次立委來存在一個罷免制度因為全世界先進民主國家沒有哪一個國家的國會議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9779.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9805.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
美國的聯邦參議員 眾議員當選之後面臨被罷免沒有的 制度上就不存在這種可能性但是台灣也許這個就是說在孫中山先生的思想底下然後去制定的選舉罷免創制復建那個那個是這樣子因為我們國家不可能沒有罷免因為走到這一步不可能沒有罷免但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9805.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9830.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
應該是怎麼去完善罷免的制度比如說現在因為罷免的門檻比較低它只要兩成五所以就會讓選輸的人覺得有機可乘怎麼透過大罷免去扭轉剛剛產生的民意這就是我覺得制度造成的漏洞但是大罷免結果其實對社會非常傷害像我們那一區就出現非常多的對立包括家庭 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9832.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9858.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
長輩跟子女之間也因為立場不一樣罷免的仇恨的煽動彼此不和甚至有女兒離開家庭都有我覺得這個是當初發動大罷免的人他可能沒有顧慮到那麼多但這絕對不會只是政治的問題這是整個社會的問題它會影響到整個社會因為我覺得這個事情是非常嚴重沒有正當性的罷免那時候罷免我的被推出來的領先人用了一個理由 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9859.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
9868.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
2023年葉元之怎麼樣怎麼樣所以要罷免葉元之我2024才做立委就是說因為剛選完就要搞罷免他也找不出什麼理由他就是這樣隨便亂講這個就是罷免制度的漏洞 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
9872.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
9889.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
我們對未來的主委或是現在的游教授充滿了期待覺得到時候如果在一些法令的解釋 詮釋甚至改革上面希望說您可以更積極的去讓我們的台灣更民主 更健全我一定會這麼做好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
9899.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
9920.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
謝謝 我們感謝葉延之委員質詢在這被提名人游一龍先生之說明跟答詢已經結束了被提名人游一龍先生可以先離席 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
9922.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
9931.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
我們休息十分鐘繼續我們再來請胡博遠先生來審查謝謝大家大家辛苦了 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10558.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10567.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
我們現在繼續進行比提名人胡柏諺先生跟說明跟詢問請中選委員比提名人並為副主任委員胡柏諺先生說明謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10591.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10612.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
謝謝主席主席各位委員我是胡博焱很榮幸有這個機會受行政院的信任而被提名擔任這樣的職務的工作那我也希望這個是一個這幾年來我們都看到台灣其實不只是在立法院在每個地方政治的抗爭性都非常大我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10613.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10632.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
政治不是只有抗爭也有很多討論跟協調這件事情而我們其實這個委員會呢目前的七位提名人基本上來講來自各個不同的黨派其實以目前的地方選委會的態勢是一樣的那說實在的相比 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10633.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10659.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
我們內政委員會可能處理的像內政部的事情或是其他部會中選會是一個行政動能很小那嚴格來講處理的事情也比較單純但是雖然它是單純的但是這件事情其實處理不好就會動搖國本的這事情那但是呢中選會其實剛剛主委提名有提過說我們其實原而編制也不過才60個人就像地方選舉委員會也不過才200多個人 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10661.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10686.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
所以呢我們雖然有七個提名人但是大概只有主委跟副主委需要兩個值日生來負責擦黑板倒水的這樣的工作這個就由游老師跟我來擔任但是重要的是這七個人其實在未來在決定事情上面以及現在的四位委員在未來決定事情上面來講在這個委員會當中而言每個人的決定的份量是一樣的而且這也是體現這一個國家在處理選舉事務當中而言 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10690.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10701.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
各黨各派在處理事務當中都有應該要發言的地位而我們希望藉由這一次的審查可以讓我們國家可以走得更順利謝謝謝謝我們這裡電視台有他的詢問詢問質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10721.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10743.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
謝謝主席我們請被提名人胡伯彥教授胡伯彥教授被提名人好我想剛剛你有說明就是這一次的話基本上是由各黨派來推薦也是我們進入到立法院將近兩年來第一次的人事審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10743.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10772.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
是由各黨派來推薦我們當然也希望說能夠有這樣一個好的結果那當然今天有幾個題目要就教於您那首先是在我們提問的一個問題當中針對中選會是否有權審查立法院的公投提案那您的書面回答得非常清楚就是依公投法第15條第二項立法院交付案件排除人民提案審核的程序 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10772.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10797.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
就法律解釋上應該沒有審查的適用你甚至說立法院交付本為政治決定在邏輯上不該由中選會進行合法的審查所以我在這邊請您先把你的立場講清楚你的意思是不是只要立法院三讀通過交付到中選會這樣的公投案其實中選會的角色就是依法辦理呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10798.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10814.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
我認為一件事情就是就這個法律條文解釋邏輯上面來講因為他排除了第九條到第十三條的適用所以在這個時候如果中選會審查必須要回到一件事情上面來講就像以前所講的就是請你間斷回答是不是一個政策是不是因為在您的報告裡面在這個選擇上面來講就會是如何而且不是只有這個條文因為我們還有防衛性公投 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10824.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10844.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
的問題就是如果這是您的回答嗎所以是不是就是應該遇到這個有立法院三路通過交付中選會的這樣的一個公投案中選會的角色就是依法辦理對是好那所以不能再用什麼非重大決策或是合法性把它擋下來是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10845.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10864.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
我認為這個問題的憲政問題應該是要由大法官來去解決那接下來也是我要請教您的就是您認為如果真的有憲政問題的話那您覺得中選會雖然是獨立行政的一個機關但認為行政權的一部分並非憲政機關所以憲政上的爭議 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10865.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10889.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
依照憲法應該交由大法官來處理這是您的回覆所以針對這個部分中選會它不是憲政的機關所以中選會如果過度介入只會讓選務複雜這也是您在回覆中提到的所以我要問得更直接一點就是中選會直接駁回公投案是不是嚴重的越權呢也僭越了大法官的職權 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10891.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10913.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
我其實在之前的研究報告有提出來一件事情是說中選會如果直接把人家駁回的話應該在法條裡面規範讓他立即可以去申請大官釋憲由大法官去解決所以中選會不可以駁回嗎我認為如果從我剛剛的研究報告立場上面來講從這個立場其實是可以讓他駁回但是後面接續的就是馬上 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10915.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10925.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
那個憲法解釋的問題可是中選會沒有權利嘛沒有權利駁回我們的公投案嘛如果照你剛剛的論點的話我們應該就是要辦理嘛那如果認為有問題的話再送交這個把憲政機關請申請釋憲的問題嘛對 所以這個部分的話就是好那其他機關是不是有辦法權利解釋違憲的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10939.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10964.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
其他機關對行政機關可不可以解釋違憲的問題實際上來講每個行政機關基本上來講都是在依據憲法來做成決定對所以說好但是呢最終而言決定有沒有違憲的問題的時候就要變成是大法官對那所以說針對這個軍人加薪跟提高警校人員所得替代率的法律是否違憲其實應該不是行政院長說了算吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10965.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10983.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
應該是要申請這個大法官釋憲由大法官來決定那在還沒有宣判違憲之前是不是就是合乎憲法在您這個法律學者的這樣子一個我覺得這個憲政爭議而言應該要交由大法官來處理但是因為行政院認為他是違憲的違憲之前就是合乎憲法嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10984.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
11000.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
行政院認為它是違憲就像定出來的某些制度內立法院也有可能認為它是違憲的在你是法律學者的這樣子的一個立場你是不是針對這個部分就是只要還沒辦違憲之前就是合乎憲法只要還沒辦還沒有判違憲之前是不是就合乎憲法 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
11001.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
11007.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
跟委員報告就是每個行政機關他可能會認為他這個法條是違憲的所以最終他可能會去申請實現的去做主意的因為你在國會改革的審議階段你多次的公開批評在野黨的修法是違憲擴權可是當這個中選會駁回我們的公投的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
11019.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
11043.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
你卻沉默了你卻沒有站出來講說這個部分依法的話是應該不該駁回應該要依法宣證所以我覺得站在這個立場的話我覺得被提名人你好像就是只有在監督在野黨不監督執政黨敢宣出來的就是表現了一個這個好像是側翼的行為而且你的書面也回答了就是中選會是違法但是你的沉默卻證明了你也不敢得罪民進黨所以當有這樣的一個狀況的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
11045.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
11052.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
我們要 你要如何說服我們這些被審 這個審查委員你未來能夠超然獨立的行使你的職權 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
11053.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
11080.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
我在2015年的時候我就說我要跟蔡英文劃清界限了這件事情其實報紙都有報導過這次的審查我想你要說服的是這一次被審查的委員他們的想法那另外一點呢就是我們在第一題就有提到的就是有關公投綁大選如何順利的進行那您的回答是說只要把場地租大一點分流做好工作人員增加然後提高行政效率 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
11081.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
11107.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
亂象 107年的亂象就不會重演這是您這是您回覆的是嗎那你這樣是不是就在說明了就民進黨這幾年說公投這個107年的公投綁大選選務亂是因為這個因為公投綁大選的關係所以你現在就是在證明說當時民進黨這幾年的說法純粹就是為了政治算計而做這樣子的說謊的一個行為嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
11108.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
11132.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
107年確實當初2018年確實公投榜大選的那一天大選日的混亂狀況這個大家都看得出來是因為選務沒有規劃好嗎所以你才會提出來說接下來你就可以把選務怎麼規劃好所以你剛回答是這樣嗎但是那一天確實就是有十個十個公投案那就是因為表示你的人力還不夠嗎你分流沒有做好嗎這是你在回答中 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
11132.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
11145.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
可以解決的問題的方式所以說我們這邊是不是也就代表說以前上一次的2018年的公投中選會沒有辦好是因為人的問題是因為人無能而不是因為並大選 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
11148.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
11171.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
所以你在回答問題我覺得在2018年確實選務工作做得不完善所以說是因為這樣所以這幾年民進黨一直在講說公投綁大選造成選務的混亂其實不是因為公投綁大選事實上是真正能夠展現民意真正讓每個民眾能夠有機會去表達他自己的意志的時間所以我想您在這個整個回覆中也已經 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
11172.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
11200.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
已經這樣子充分的回答了說您針對公投綁大選覺得這個選務的部分其實的亂象不是因為綁大選而是因為行政座有沒有做好嗎是這樣嗎因為其他國家有些國家確實是沒有綁大選那我認為說如果真的要綁大選我們就必須要把選務工作處理做正因為在你問題的一些言論跟立場事實上你是反對公投綁大選的那當然今天我在研究報告是寫我支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
11201.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
11218.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
對 你在你的 但是你看喔你在這個自由時報的這個對 專欄裡面我寫你是這個空頭綁大選只會毀了公投本質喔這是你以前的說法 對那我們希望說不要因為今天是未來來擔任副主委所以你就改變你過去的說法到底我們要相信哪一個你 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
11219.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
11237.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
是同意公投綁大選的你還是反對公投綁大選委員因為我們現在法條已經改了我們未來就是要因應一件事情就是要綁大選我們要預防的一件事情就是2018年的那個狀況出現希望您不要是因為為了要擔任這個副主委這個職務而去出賣您原來的一個這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
11238.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
11250.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
自己的一個學術的一個良知還是希望您能夠如果未來您有幸能夠擔任副主委的話一定要秉持公正 超然獨立的立場來行使職權謝謝好 謝謝委員謝謝 謝謝徐益臻委員質詢我們現在有時間要委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
11272.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
11299.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
謝謝主席有請我們被提名人副主委被提名人胡老師胡教授教授首先我想要先分享喔有一個就是被歐巴馬總統任命的第一位女性的這個司法部長哈佛的第一位的女性院長叫做Elena Kagan2010年歐巴馬提名她那這位美國的女性大法官他有一句名言 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
11300.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
11321.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
我觉得想要分享给大家也许胡教授您也非常的了解这句名言呢他说my politics would be must be have to becompletely separatefrom my judgment意思是我有我个人的政治意识的形态我有我个人的政治 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
11321.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
11342.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
形象或是我的政治主張但是這跟我的判決是完全兩碼子事他是完全會抽離的當他成為大法官的那一天他勢必要專業的去判準他的每一個判決而且依據憲法所以他的politics每個人有自己的politics |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
11343.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
11361.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
我有您有每一個委員都有但是當大家被提名成為中選會的委員未來渴望上任的時候請切記超越黨派超越個人的政治意識形態首先合法是必要的我相信胡教授非常同意這位Elena Kagan她的主張 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
11362.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
11391.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
其实也是物资要我个人的主张所以说下一页我刚刚在垂询这个主委被提名人游云龙先生的时候我也提到成功选务的三要素就是公正效率跟便民而中选会委员的四要件独立专业公正跟守线守法守线守法非常的重要唯有回到守线守法的基准我们才能够超越自己的politics |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
11391.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
11415.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
自己的政治意識的型態您同意嗎同意那麼在首先守法的這個範圍裡頭我對於剛剛因為時間有限游盈隆被提名人主委的被提名人他一直長期在論述的他個人認為這個罷免是災難的這件事情我尊重他的言論自由但是如果今天 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
11416.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
11443.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
成為中選會未來要獨立行使職權而且是首先守法的主委的時候回歸憲法的精神就非常重要憲法第17條所規範的人民有選舉罷免創制復決之權這是中華民國的憲法所以人民依據憲法所提出的罷免我希望過去的游盈隆學者跟未來的游盈隆主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
11444.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
11452.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
他的主張勢必要首先合法要脫離他個人的politics那您怎麼看這個命題呢您怎麼看待人民發起的大罷免 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
11453.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11481.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
包委員我這個意見其實跟委員一樣但是我不要我其實某些方面也是認為說罷免制度其實在很多國家現在目前其實是被檢討的但是我們確實在憲法17條就寫著我們有罷免的權利這個是我們沒有辦法去否定的一件事情因為它寫在憲法裡面人民委員會跑來跟你講說我就可以罷免誰所以說首先守法很重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11482.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11511.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
個人作為學者的身份可以有自己的政治主張但一旦被提名成為國家的中選會的委員的時候首先手法就是重要的基準請尊重人民依據憲法所發動的基本公民權而我更要說大罷免是人民發動的而大惡罷才是國民黨發動的吳斯堯我本人就是受害者就是當事人我到現在還是中華民國史上被罷免者 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11512.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11531.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
的最高被偽造連署的份數2674份這份記錄負面的記錄還標記在我身上我非常的遺憾這是被發動大惡霸一方用違法的方式來僭越了來踐踏了憲法珍貴的人民父權我要在這裡提出 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11532.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11544.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
下一頁剛剛提到不再急投票我也都說即便要變名也要讓公正選舉跟選舉的效率不打折所以大家都有共識公投先行下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11546.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11572.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
各縣市政府有這樣的共識選務機關有這樣的共識所以請支持行政院的版本下一頁那回到這一頁就是說公投綁大選2018年的選務混亂只有2成8的人民同意而高達6成9的人民不滿意這就告訴我們公投綁大選需要有很好的機制配套未來好現在立法院修法通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11573.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11596.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
未來可能公投綁大選會再上路但是選務機關的責任就是維持它的運行不會混亂不會造成人民在選舉投票行使的不便利性那我就要問來下一頁您個人確實有主張但是我認為這個論述還是要再精確一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11597.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11611.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
依據公投法第10條中選會就主管機關對於不管人民發動的罷免對不起人民發動的公投或者是立法院發動的公投你還是必須去去審核他是不是符合法律跟憲法的規範對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11613.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11636.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
我是認為他還是要有初步的審核那如果有問題就直接讓他去憲法法庭去做但是現在謝謝你提供未來立法院可能在修法的一個方向但目前並沒有您所說的這個條文就是說如果在中選會在認定在審核上的判準有所異議應當由憲法法庭來做最終的審議這是 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11638.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11654.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
未來法律所沒有的而這可能也會衍生另外的問題因為憲法法庭在審議釋憲的過程還有一定的程序那人民所發動他的對於部分的主張或是立法院的公投案本身也許在時程上沒有辦法等 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11655.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11682.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
這也會有其他衍生的問題但回到現在的法律的規範如果公投綁大選要讓他能夠不至於造成選務的混亂就是我們必須精確的讓合法首先的公投案才能上路不是嗎某些方面是否則從107年到115年我調閱了中選會的資料人民發動的公投案有69案您知道中選會駁回多少案嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11683.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11711.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
不知道35案成立的34案換言之有一半的比例中選會的這個把關還是需要的因為他需要在首先合法的規範公投法第二條就規範了全國性公投跟地方性公投都有適用的要件而且他要符合憲法規定所以在人民發動的公投案裡頭從107年到15年有一半以上經過中選會的把關 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11713.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11724.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
有一半成立一半駁回這會避免了過多的公投你沒有去審核他是不是合法合憲你也必須去把關否則公投綁大選天啊2018年那種噩夢幾十案又來了同樣的立法院的公投案 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11732.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11745.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
立法院的公投案也是要守憲合法所以就像我說的用公投法的修正來推翻憲法的解釋是可以的嗎是可以的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11745.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11767.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
我覺得這個會觸犯到法治國原則的要求所以我是建議我非常理解您在法律上的一些理解但我認為發言要非常的嚴謹我也希望社會不要錯誤的解讀副主委您認為未來委員針對公投法是否合法合憲合規完全沒有審核把關的權利這非常危險 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11769.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11796.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
你在審核的不是政治的意識形態而是它有沒有符合國家公投的制度的法律的授權跟憲法的授權 您同意嗎同意我給您再最後一次去更正調整您的說法好嗎對於未來如果您當選通過立法院的同意權針對人民發動的公投案跟立法院所發動的公投案您認為中選會獨立機關要進行什麼樣子的把關我認為的把關都是屬於最低限度的把關 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11797.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11825.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
最低限度的不要過分的去干涉我們整個議案裡面內容避免中選會過度的逾越這件事情但是我想最低的限度的要求其實應該是可以達成的守法守憲這就是我們共同的底線好嗎依法行使職權我提醒所有的被提名人沒有政治意識形態而是依法守憲做我們該做的事情這樣你就能夠有很強的底氣不受政治所威脅 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11826.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11828.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
好嗎我們一起加油謝謝胡教授謝謝謝謝我們感謝吳斯亞委員質詢我們現在稱召之委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11847.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11872.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
多謝主席有請副主委被提名人 胡教授胡教授 雖然有委員有提到但是我對於您曾經投書媒體認為這個公學綁大頭會讓這個公投認為政黨這個對決的工具那甚至就是喪失了這個公投的這個本質這件事我還是要再請教你請問您現在對於公投綁大選還是這樣的看法嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11872.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11881.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
我會認為如果可以的話讓它其實是不同天其實是一個可以的決定的選擇但是我們現在是要面對的問題是 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11882.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11902.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
法條已經修過了他就是要同天投票但是胡教授我了解你認為公投綁大選可能會讓政黨來主導這個公投議題造成公投失焦可是我的想法剛好跟你相反公投基本上這個公投綁大選基本上是強迫政黨或政治人物他必須他不能迴避他必須針對這個議題去做他的主張或是表態 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11905.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11928.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
那就是說讓選民也能夠有機會知道這個參選人他對於這個議題的想法跟態度根據這個議題他來做出他的選舉的決定換句話說您擔心的是這個公投會影響這個政黨會影響公投可是我的看法剛好是相反的我認為是人民做主的公投 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11929.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11936.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
反而會去影響這個政黨因為我相信台灣選民的數字是越來越高啊他們不見得是根據顏色去投票他們會根據議題看議題然後就來做這個選擇胡教授您贊同我的說法嗎我贊同 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11944.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11958.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
那過去的經驗就是我想你也非常清楚這個單獨舉行的公投他的投票率非常低資訊流通是有限的那結果往往被高度動員反而有可能讓政黨更容易去去做主導 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11959.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11979.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
綁大選你至少可以讓參與率是提高的參與率是提高讓公投的結果更能夠去反映整體選民的整體意志那您剛剛也一再提到修法已經通過了那我認為今年年底的地方選舉很可能很可能就是同時會舉辦公投那我要請問 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11980.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
12000.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
這個胡教授因為您過去是反對的當然你現在要尊重這個法律已經通過的事實可是您能夠如實的去執行立法院通過的修法嗎你怎麼樣說服立法院還有台灣人民說你會按照這個修法你會公正如實的去把選務辦好你怎麼來說服 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
12001.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
12026.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
包委員我們在2018年因為公投綁大選的混亂之後因為當天有10個公投案確實造成一些混亂其實中選會在這邊其實針對整體的選務有做過改革所以在分流制度上面來講其實是已經達成了所以只要公投的案件數不會太多的話我相信其實當天可以秩序其實是可以被掌控的 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
12028.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
12046.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
我們是擔心說您會不會如實我會如實去辦好這件事情你的主張 我也同意你個人的主張跟這個作為有時候是可以分開的但是你的責任就是要遵守你的責任我想請教你對不在籍投票的看法民眾黨所提的不在籍投票其實是限於台灣島內 國內 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
12048.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
12067.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
這個移轉投票我們希望讓這個事實上你過去參與的時代力量目前還是也是這樣主張的請問胡教授您現在是支持國內移轉投票嗎我支持國內移轉投票你支持移轉投票這樣我們可以幫助就業就學的因素而不用這個周遮勞頓回到這個戶籍地來投票那但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
12071.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
12099.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
目前不再去投票是多數國家的一個做法連這個中南亞國家包括印尼菲律賓他們都做了那你知道前年印尼大選我們台灣的警察出來幫助幫助這個這個秩序的維安所以這個是我是覺得很丟臉我們可以幫助別的國家結果我們到目前為止還不允許還不允許我們的國民能夠做這個這個移轉這個投票所以我想說是剛剛胡教授您說您是支持的 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
12100.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
12104.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
那我們法過了以後 你也會按照這個去辦理對不對我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
12106.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
12130.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
立法院法律通過之後中選會會依據立法院所通過的選罷法等相關法規或公民投票法來處理我希望吳教授能夠遵守法律因為我們現在看太多期行政院長沒有遵守法律立法院通過的法律把它視為空氣形同空氣那我再想請教你一件事受刑人權利有民間團體認為非常關注受刑人跟羞辱人的投票權 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
12131.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
12159.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
那過去中情會認為根本不可能在在監投票那這等於完全剝奪了受刑人跟收容人的他這個憲法賦予的權利那我知道胡教授您在11月去年你也主持過在收容人投票權研討會擔任這個主持人胡教授你認為收容人跟受刑人有沒有投票權我先問你有沒有投票權有投票權只要他們沒有被褫奪公認他們就有投票權那如果有你要怎麼落實呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
12160.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
12175.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
我覺得在投開票所的設置上面來講我們因為要兼顧到公開化以及安全的問題這個部分其實我覺得不管是中選會或者法務部其實應該更努力來解決這問題因為他們有些人不是不在急有些人其實急就在監鎖 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
12176.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
12202.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
你提到的還是技術面問題嘛你在歐洲嘛歐洲他們就是很多人就有很多國家他就設了這個在間投票嘛這個你們你過去所屬的時代力量他們也是一直用這樣做例子嘛所以胡教授你認為是可行的嗎我認為可行這一次就可以辦了嗎年底的選舉就可以辦了嗎這個我不確定這個可能要跟幕僚機關以及各省市選委會來辦但是從我的觀點來講我一直都認為這是可以做的 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
12206.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
12217.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
可以做就要去做啊我也會去從我的觀點我也會去推行這件事情謝謝謝謝吳教授謝謝我們感謝陳昭芝委員質詢現在中途我們不需要休息繼續開會因為現在12點了在這裡我們鄭天才委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
12248.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
12265.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
福教授好原住民選舉前的困境沒有聽過吧我有聽過原住民議題我其實也有熟悉謝謝你的關注秘密投票 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
12266.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
12290.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
原住民很多的選舉沒有秘密投票的一個情形雖然憲法規定的很明確無記名投票是方法行之但是因為原住民從原鄉到都會區工作的非常多然後遷积的也很多 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
12291.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
12319.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
所以相關的這些事實上在都會期原住民的人口數已經達到50%有社會籍的已經達到50%左右所以這樣的一個情形之下一個投票所只有一個人的就有以平地原住民來講就有966人一個投票所兩個人的以平地原住民講來說就是1034 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
12321.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
12345.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
如果包括三個人的總共有2900多將近3000人那我們看山地原住民山地原住民也是一樣也有類似這樣子情形一到三人的總共有3235人所以他投票給誰一開票就知道他投票給誰所以他就變成說 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
12347.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
12365.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
會考慮是不是要不要去投票會有這樣的一個情形所以這樣的一個情形怎麼樣去保障憲法徵修條文第十條第十二項保障原住民的政治參與政治參與除了參政權之外還有選舉權選舉權本席透過質詢請這個中選會要這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
12375.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
12400.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
解決秘密投票 質詢了非常非常的多次因為事實上是可以 不修法其實是可以的以公職人員選舉辦人法第57條第三項 原住民公職人員選舉得徵走實際情形 單獨設置投票所或在選舉區內辦理投票 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
12403.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
12430.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
事實上只有規定 但是一直沒有辦法落實所以本席不得不修法所以今年 去年12月26號三讀通過為保障原住民秘密投票權益 應單獨設置投票然後不受第17條第一項應在戶籍地投票之限制當初在修法的討論的時候中選會還是不支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
12432.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
12461.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
所以這樣的部分如果這個副教授能夠擔任副主委或者是其他的被提名人也能夠擔任委員希望落實這次的一個修正的條例可以嗎 可以接下來談不在己投票原住民族的不在己投票事實上最可以先實施的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
12462.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
12483.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
立法委員因為原住民的立法委員的選區是台澎金所以跟總統一起選舉所以原住民要實施不在籍投票是應該最優先來辦理是可以執行的因為我們每一個投票所都有我們的選民 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
12485.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
12505.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
都有投票所了就是移轉投票就很容易了因為每個台北市每個都有原住民的投票所所以這個部分是可以先實施的因為沒有實施所以造成我們原住民與非原住民的投票率的差異你想想看以3D原住民來講我們就講第11屆立委 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
12507.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
12535.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
差距13.83%投票率平地原住民是7%多這樣的一個落差就是因為太遠了我們看這個台灣地圖一個住台北市的鄉親他要到蘭嶼投票回去他的戶籍地就很遠不要說蘭嶼就到屏東或是到台東都非常非常的遠而且還要到山上 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
12536.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
12563.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
不是到了台東火車站之後 還要到山上所以這個原住民族的不在籍投票更是有它的一個需要性我看了這個印尼 在台灣我們的外勞 印尼的外勞在台灣都是 都投票所以在台灣投票在台灣還不只 不是只有在台北市每個縣市都有投票所 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12564.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12587.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
像這樣他們都可以受得到這樣的一個情形我們確實做不到我們真的是要加油所以這個部分也希望我們這個胡教授以及各位被提名人到了中選會之後能夠優先支持嚴肅民主的不在己投票 可以嗎可以 沒問題謝謝我們感謝鄭天才委員資訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12593.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12610.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
咱家習星雲委員 習星雲委員不在咱家省花卉 省花卉委員不在葉延芝 葉延芝 葉延芝不在 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12619.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12635.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
在這被提名人胡柏彥先生所說明和質詢的都已經結束完畢委員習新英提出書面質詢列入紀錄刊登公報 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12641.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12649.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
再來我們比提名人的吳博言先生可以先離席可以先離席我們現在的休訓五分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12666.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12677.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
我們繼續國分前後繼續進行被提名人黃文玲女士之說明價值詢問謝謝大家辛苦了 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12807.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12807.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
谢谢大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
13060.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
13066.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
來 繼續開會 進行被提名人黃文玲女士之說明和詢答請黃文玲女士說明主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
13077.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
13092.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
各位委員各位在場的先進大家午安大家好我是黃文玲那這次非常榮幸的能夠受到這個行政院提名為這次的中選會委員的被提名人 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
13093.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
13105.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
那今天來這裡呢也是要跟大家來分享就是說我其實民國83年就考上律師那一直擔任律師到現在那在期間呢在2012年到 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
13108.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
13129.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
14年的時候擔任第八屆的立法委員那有短暫的時間在立法院那時候也是在內政委員會那期間呢我在過去從事這個律師的職務其實有辦理非常多的這個選罷法的案件包括會選案當選人這個資格不私認的案子還有 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
13130.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
13143.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
就是譬如說有假訊息的案件等等所以在實務上或許能夠提供給未來的中選會一些建言當然我本身在2004年的時候還有2014跟18也都參與過 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
13148.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
13168.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
立法委員的選舉及彰化縣長的選舉在選舉的過程當中當然就會有非常多的選務的紛爭我想我們主席也是身經百戰大家都也很清楚就是選舉可能會遇到的一些糾紛我覺得這一次的被提名人裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
13169.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
13185.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
其實跟上一屆的感覺上好像比較多的出入因為上一屆我看實務界的律師有好幾位那這一次的被提名人裡面大部分都是學者專家而且都是憲政的學者專家那實務界的好像律師就只有我一人 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
13185.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
13207.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
那我希望說如果未來有機會擔任中選會的委員我們除了要讓中選會要保持他的獨立性中立性及公正性之外還要維護他的專業跟可信賴性那當然在這個過程之中選務的過程之中確實有非常多的可能會 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
13208.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
13224.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
涉及到紛爭的部分會影響到這個選務工作人員的部分所以未來如果有機會的話我們也是應該要來維護我們選務人員的尊嚴那以上那希望說就是能夠對這個中選會能夠有所貢獻謝謝謝謝 感謝說明我們這裡黃珊珊委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
13240.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
13264.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
謝謝主席 我請被提名人請讓我們被提名人委員好 好久不見我稱呼您黃律師好黃律師很高興在這邊看到您尤其是您的父親是以前非常受敬重的中選會的主委我想中選會也好或者是任何選委會的委員都需要 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
13265.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
13282.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
移植相關的公正跟獨立性那民主選舉的過程裡面不是只有最後一天的結果我想過程很重要過程的公平包括更多的所謂的不孝方法或者是說有一些不正當的方式造成了選舉的不公 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
13283.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
13300.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
那我個人比較我看到你的問卷大概到大部分都有回答不過我今天要問的是根據有關選舉過程裡面其實最大的一塊叫做媒體不公媒體不公的部分在各個法律其都規定得非常清楚總統副總統選罷法46條還有公職人員選罷法49條在廣播電視 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
13306.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
13331.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
也從事選舉或罷免相關議題的論證新聞報導或邀請候選人罷免案提議人或被罷免人的參加節目要公正公平處理不可以有無正當理由的差別待遇但是這麼多年來我相信你也選過去我們只要是非所謂主流媒體的支持的對象大概都會在很多媒體中被消失 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
13332.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
13355.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
包括在我想去年的總統大選也非常的清楚2024的總統大選非常清楚的是某個藍媒 綠媒現在已經台灣人都有一定的既定的印象你會看到有一些藍媒看不到綠色的綠媒看不到藍色的那更糟糕的像台灣民眾黨我們是中間所以兩邊都看不到 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
13356.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
13369.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
這個部分我們曾經也提出過很嚴肅的控訴那NCC有回答說查無證據啦我們也有檢舉但是回去要給中選會所以我們就不禁要去查到在101年 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
13370.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
13393.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
在105年其實中選會都曾經對於媒體沒有邀請平衡報導或者是沒有邀請到這些所有的參選人而開罰的紀錄我想請問您您對第一媒體在選舉過程中沒有依法行事第二個105年到現在已經快10年了沒有塵埃任何一個媒體處罰 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
13394.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
13409.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
所以反而我們會懷念您父親當時當中選會主委的時候我們還有道德勇氣對媒體做相關的裁罰如果有這樣的案子我想知道您的想法跟您對於選舉公平應該在媒體上面怎麼樣來維護中選會的獨立性跟公正性 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
13414.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
13440.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
謝謝委員的指教我想剛剛你提到這個部分其實我深受感同因為我其實我在2014年到18年這兩次彰化縣長選舉我就是以無黨籍的身份參選但是確實是媒體就是全部都把我們的新聞全部都消失被消失掉所以我可以感受到就是說就是選委會在這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
13441.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
13462.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
辦理選舉的過程之中其實它是必須要秉持公正客觀的態度而且其專業的部分那至於就是特定的媒體那他們是不是可以就針對這個部分就是被選舉人就是沒有做公平的報導的部分是不是應該裁罰的部分其實我記得我那時候有去抗議過 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
13463.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
13493.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
但是似乎是好像沒有作用因為他們認為那個是NCC的所以這就是我們今天中選會其實在101年曾經罰過當時是華氏在政見發表會之後沒有播出某個候選人的會後記者會被裁罰了20萬基本的該有的所以我認為中選會應該要有基本的就是法律的價值它的價值就是要維護選舉的公正公平 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
13493.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
13523.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
然後每個這個候選人都能夠在這個媒體上能夠被揭露我想大家都可能很清楚的知道這個公正性的確在現今的台灣媒體環境裡面做不到但是我相信中選會應該要做到中選會如果中選會還有道德勇氣的話我們十年來都沒有成過半子案子但是105年那時候還有某些節目只邀請特地的候選人還有 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
13523.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
13550.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
只邀請某些特定的沒有給予其他選區同樣的候選人相同的機會就被裁罰了40萬跟20萬這是我想中選會委員必須要秉持的一個中正的立場所以他們那個時候的中選會委員可能有道德勇氣才會做這樣的一個裁量所以我們也期待我們未來有機會擔任委員的話也希望能夠秉持這樣一個立場是 只要依法就好公平就好好 謝謝謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
13554.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
13580.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
謝謝 我們感謝黃珊珊委員北提名人黃文玲女士在說明和詢問已經結束我們北提名人黃文玲女士可以先行離席我們休訓五分鐘 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
13600.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
13611.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
謝謝大家的收看 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
13632.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
13645.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
謝謝大家謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
13673.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
13673.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
來,請坐 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
13678.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
13702.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
那個要不要就是因為我們就就是就我們一個人一個人這樣看他的狀況但是我覺得就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
13704.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
13723.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
我覺得 我等一下去跟他溝通好了因為我們 因為目前的話我們諮詢人就我們諮詢人可以拖八分 等一下還要等一下我算一下 四分多 八分多 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
13735.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
13757.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
響鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
13768.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
13783.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
喔 可以可以 因為報告人是八分鐘 然後兩分鐘對 對 對 說明大概幾分鐘就三分鐘兩分鐘 沒關係 因為我也在三樓 謝謝好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
13791.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
13805.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
響鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
13820.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
13850.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
然後再下一個說明完再下一個所以它還有一遍大概就是這樣我會聽到我前面講的一句話對 只要聽到過癮的一句話對 只要聽到過癮的一句話對 只要聽到過癮的一句話對 只要聽到過癮的一句話對 只要聽到過癮的一句話對 只要聽到過癮的一句話對 只要聽到過癮的一句話 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
13866.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
13866.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
13890.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
13899.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
來 我們繼續開會我們繼續進行被提名人李立忠先生的說明和詢問請中選會委員被提名人李立忠先生說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
13914.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
13932.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
王主席還有各位委員還有我們張秘書長還有各位在座的先生跟女士我是李李仲那很高興這次被我們行政院提名為中央選舉委員會委員的被提名人那我在此報告那我們都知道民主 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
13933.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
13958.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
選舉制度乃是憲政秩序與民主制度的一個核心那它的公正性跟可信賴性跟穩定性直接關係人民對我們台灣民主的一個信賴的關鍵中央選舉委員會肩負了選舉與公民投票的規劃執行與監督的重任 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
13959.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
13986.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
其專業性 獨立性跟依法行政對於民主制度之健全運作具有關鍵的意義唐友信擔任中央選舉委員會一職個人將超越黨派以維護憲法精神確保選舉公平強化制度信賴為最高自我期許 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
13987.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
14002.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
然而 擔任中央選舉委員會委員並非權力之所在而是責任與信賴之所繼本人之抱負在於以專業 理性與公正 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
14003.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
14020.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
首先合法協助台灣建構一個經得起政治競爭社會檢驗與歷史評價的選舉制度為我們民主發展盡一份長期而穩定的力量以上報告謝謝各位 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
14024.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
14042.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
謝謝感謝說明因為沒有委員長去接訊所以我們的李立中的說明到這裡 提名人李立中先生可以先行離席我們休訓兩分鐘謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
14047.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
14057.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
有機會這樣議席議席要不然坐在那裡聽一些大家留意的意見這樣也很好謝謝 辛苦辛苦有機會這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
14075.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
14092.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
哎呀 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
14100.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
14112.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
谢谢观看,下次见! |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
14136.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
14144.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
14171.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
14187.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
來 我們繼續再來開會繼續進行被提名人蘇嘉鴻先生之說明跟詢問我們現在中選會委員被提名人蘇嘉鴻先生說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
14196.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
14208.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
主席 秘書長 麥委員 還有全體的女士們 先生們我是福音科技大學蘇嘉鴻蘇老師 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
14210.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
14237.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
我在這個學校任教已經有32年的歷史在去年因為種種的機緣巧合被推薦被提名所以有這個機會來這邊接受大家的提問我在這裡想要講兩件事情第一件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
14239.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
14263.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
從早上到現在所有的委員們對被提名人的提問大概聚焦在幾件事情上面大概不外就是公投綁大選以及不在籍投票另外還有其他的問題不管怎麼樣這都是一個值得追求的 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
14265.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
14269.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
未來方向 它是一個值得追求的未來方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
14270.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
14296.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
但是我們必須要很誠實的去面對中選會現在當前的行政量能未來的考驗其實都在於未來的中選會能不能在自己的行政量能上面有所擴張 有所深化來因應這些挑戰 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
14298.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
14315.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
所以在一個值得追求的方向它代表了一種進步的價值但與此同時我們對於中選會的目前的行政量能卻沒有與時俱增的一種調整這完全是不現實的 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
14317.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
14342.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
那中選會的組織編制據說是57個然後預算編制是55個總之他不會超過60個人那地方選委會是負責選務工作所以不管是境外的或者是這個省委的啦等等的這些各式各樣的挑戰 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
14344.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
14364.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
那麼中選會其實是沒有辦法回應這個現代的時代需求跟社會的這樣的殷切的期待所以在這種情況之下我認為就是我要講的第二點中選會的委員們應該是要專任的目前是無幾職 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
14368.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
14376.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
那NCC跟這個公平會呢都是專任的那這個以兼任的 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
14377.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
14401.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
兼職的 無幾職的委員要來因應這些剛剛講過的重重的挑戰實在是分身乏術了 實在是分身乏術幸好此時此刻的審查會是在這個禮拜如果是在上週上上週的話是學期最後一週要辦這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
14404.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
14430.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
期末考 要簽考 要印考卷什麼的怎麼可能來呢要把本職工作薪水顧好所以這麼工作 這個工作這麼兼具對委員來講 確實無幾值的兼職這是一個很奇特的現象所以我們必須要讓獨立機關的獨立性因為委員的踴躍性獲得保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
14431.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
14459.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
那這個機關才能夠因應未來的這麼一些更多的一個挑戰那麼第二件事情就是說那麼有關於這個選舉罷免的訴訟選罷法的這個訴訟目前都還是在民事法院裡面它明明是公法訴訟那這個部分我們可能在未來也可以再重新做個調整跟思考以上報告 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
14462.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
14467.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
謝謝感謝首名我們這裡定期麥一貞委員質詢謝謝主席 有請蘇老師蘇老師謝謝老師好 真的辛苦了 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
14491.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
14520.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
所以我們說想要請問一下因為現在的選舉制度你有說了就是憲政由內政部主管選務由中選會負責的分立設計原意在於落實責任政治就是維護選舉的中立但你也指出實務上因為全職的交 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
14521.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
14538.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
交換 所以呢 往往就是導致改革就是遲締甚至使中選會受制於行政關係難以回應高度流動社會於新型的風險所以呢 我想要請教兩點第一 在維持分立的架構下 你認為 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
14545.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
14569.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
中選會應清楚定位以依法執行選務的獨立機關而非非推上政治的正義第一線第二若短期仍維持分立體制是否通過交錯的任期專任化外部專家參與度透明等的 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
14569.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
14581.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
制度設計就是逐步強化中選會獨立性與公信力我們要的就是可以獨立作業嗎 這樣子的一個目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
14583.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
14599.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
是的 我原您的提問通通都是我的答案我就是肯定的很好 所以在我們的問卷裡面也有回覆指出說選舉權不是刑 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
14602.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
14627.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
形式的權利 而是國家必要積極保障的基本權 當人民因為求學啊就業啊 或者服役或職群無法返回戶籍投票的時候 我國家就是要提供替代制度 實質上就是就限制其他投票並 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
14629.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
14651.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
對年輕人還有流動人口造成不平等所以我們你認為在就是本人到場還有身份查驗也秘密投票的前提下國內移轉投票在實質上不是便利措施是 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
14652.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
14679.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
國家例行憲法保障參政的必要制度你也強調說國內轉移投票不同於資訊或者電子投票風險可控不宜被過度上網為國安問題那麼有立法完成不在籍投票的法治化的那個就是投票的法治化 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
14680.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
14692.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
你是否認為中選會在制度設計就是執行上應如何就是權力就是最大為原則從如何讓更合格 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
14694.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
14719.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
選民安全投票出發因為現在很多地方就是各國等於是說印尼 菲律賓他們都是可以就是在台灣在投票但是我在這邊強調的是說我們的民眾黨說的就是在台灣 在台灣 在台灣是移轉投票而已所以你覺得是說這樣子我們能做得到嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
14722.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
14742.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
以目前国内的移转投票我认为中选会可能步步为赢也是步步为赢赢得胜利的赢这件事情我觉得中选会可能还可以勉强的 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
14745.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
14770.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
跟上社會的需求但是如果我們繼續做民主深化的話我們還要再做其他更大的發展的話以目前我再強調一次我所了解到的中選會的行政量能是做不到的所以必須要有所調整才能夠因應時代的變遷回應社會的需求 以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
14771.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
14797.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
中選會應該做得到現在我們是台灣是科技國家所以這個是說應該要做得到不是說還在不一定做得到我覺得這個是已經我們台灣已經應該要做得到的所以接下來我想要請教一下因為現在就是兩岸人民的關係明定大陸地區人民在 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
14798.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
14822.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
涉及滿十年還有我是外配也是滿十年就是依法登記為公職候選人但是立法則憲法徵定條文裡面第十一條所做出了特別規範但近期引發就是行政機關用國籍法張大陸地區的人民 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
14828.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
14854.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
人民比例外國人額外要求放棄所謂的外國國籍形同就是以行政解釋架空的特別法所以你在這邊也是就是你說理解所以你也是說依法依法就是涉及滿十年原則是大陸地區的人民 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
14854.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
14857.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
參政權是否以憲法保障的基本權應用優先因為在我們的兩岸條款這邊就是說優先應用所以排除國籍法的類型就是來去適用所以在目前我們的部會 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
14875.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
14892.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
法律見解出現就十分之甚至有行政官員公開宣稱說陸配參政權已死的情況下你是否認為說中選會應依特別法明文辦理選務而非 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
14895.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
14897.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
而非就是被動承受這樣子可能違憲的行政解釋以免就是實質剝奪人民的參政權報告委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
14909.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
14936.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
台灣地區與大陸地區人民關係條例相對於國籍法民法諸多的相關涉及的法律目前就是一種特別法優先適用於普通法的這樣的一種法律適用關係這是沒有疑問的如果啦在這個特別法的跟普通法的這種優先適用關係不成立的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
14937.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
14960.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
那大陸地區人民來談 繼承這個遺產的上限兩百兩百萬可能就會怎麼樣呢那就不用遵守了 回到民法它的印記份或者是什麼樣的那都很可能超過兩百萬所以這個特別法的問題 這是第一個第二個 這個叫做期待可能性 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
14961.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
14988.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
如果中國大陸是沒有放棄國籍的這樣的一種法治的話強要我們的大陸配偶回去大陸去放棄國籍在客觀上沒有其他可能性強人民之所難以此來剝奪人民的參政權這個我不能認同 以上報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
14989.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
15012.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
好 謝謝 再給我一分鐘謝謝主席 謝謝我們的老師給我們的說明所以我常講的就是說我們不要因出勝地來去決定我們在台灣的我們拿身份證是跟我們國民一模模一樣樣參選也是一模模一樣樣的當選也是一模模一樣樣不要再拿出勝地來去 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
15013.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
15020.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
就是在台灣努力的人所以在最後就是請教我們的教授你在問卷中也多次強調選舉制度的核心不在政治操作的便利而在 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
15029.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
15032.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
憲法持續的穩定以及人民參政權是否能對實質保障在這樣子的一個關鍵問題你是否未來擔任中選會的委員在面對高度的政治爭議或跨部會法律的見解的分支時 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
15050.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
15068.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
你將如何具體拿捏中選會作為獨立機關的分機確保制度解釋回到法律明定性以憲政的原則真正守住民主制度與人民參政權的長期保障是 報告委員那個超越黨派依法行政公正公開 以上報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
15078.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
15092.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
好 太好了 謝謝希望未來就是要看你要讓我們的國家正常運轉讓保障我們的人民 謝謝謝謝委員 謝謝主席謝謝 感謝麥真委員質詢南北提名人蘇嘉鳳先生的說明跟質詢都已經結束 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
15105.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
15114.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
被提名人舒嘉宏先生可以先行離席休息兩分鐘 謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
15143.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
15145.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
15153.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
15173.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
因為是很方便,現在我們是在滿國之大地,很方便,因為如果東南歐,那是一個很舒服的地方,很舒服的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
15173.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
15198.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
15204.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
15209.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
慢慢來 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
15241.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
15255.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
謝謝 我們繼續再來開會繼續進行被提名人舒芝喬先生之說明和詢問請中選會的委員被提名人舒芝喬先生說明主席 黃委員各位委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
15268.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
15279.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
張秘書長還有在座各位先進 大家好非常榮幸能夠在這邊接受立法院的審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
15283.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
15299.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
很榮幸被台灣民眾黨推薦然後受行政院提名為中選會的被提名人我目前在東吳大學任教目前是東吳大學政治系的教授我自己的研究專長研究領域是 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
15301.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
15312.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
憲政體制還有選語制度那對於選語制度事實上有蠻多的這個世界各國選語制度有蠻多的一些觀察跟研究所以我自己個人認為就是說有這個機會有這個榮幸 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
15317.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
15334.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
如果能夠到中選會來服務的話其實是貢獻我自己的所長所以作為一個學者能夠進行公共服務有這樣的機會其實我是非常覺得是樂觀其成的而且也是覺得很榮幸能夠有機會擔任這樣的工作的 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
15338.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
15356.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
我對於自己的這個中選會的一個如果說將來能夠有機會能夠擔任中選委員的話我想我對自己的一個自我的定位是超越黨派然後依法行政然後公平公正的性質權雖然我是受台灣民眾黨所推薦但我不是台灣民眾黨的 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
15358.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
15380.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
政黨的代言人因為做一個中選會這樣的獨立機關我做一個研究憲政憲法的學者其實我對獨立機關本身的一個期許是相當的深厚的所以如果說我真的有機會有榮幸擔任中選會委員的話我想這是我一個對自己的一個非常深切的自我的期待自我期許 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
15381.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
15396.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
那就是我覺得中選會在過去這幾年來在政治的紛擾當中事實上確實它的公信力跟它的一些它的獨立性似乎受到社會各界的某一些質疑不過其實我還是相當 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
15397.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
15417.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
程度肯定這個中選會的同仁的在選務工作上的很多的努力那只是說在台灣目前這個朝野的這樣的一個對立情況之下不免會有一些對中選會這個獨立機關的這樣的一個一個政治上的一些批判那我認為就是說強化中選會的 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
15420.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
15442.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
公信力 獨立性是這個未來中選會要進一步去努力的一個方向那我也希望就是說我未來如果有幸作為一個中選會的委員在這個合一制的運作之下能夠貢獻自己所長然後這個對於這個台灣的民主深化民主鞏固以及這個民主的韌性盡一分心力我想我就簡短報告到這邊 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
15445.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
15468.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
謝謝 感謝說明我們今天定期張祺凱委員質詢家屬教授 主席你先 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
15471.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
15498.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
所以說今天從游營榮游主委到副主委到目前最熱門的被問到的就是不在即投票了不在即投票游營榮游主委提到的是他贊成可是他要求從公投開始做事實上最近這幾天有看到民進黨立院黨團向前跨了一步立院黨團的幹事長鍾嘉斌講說必要的時候從總統大選都可以開始做 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
15500.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
15516.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
那我看你回答我們這個問卷你是贊成不再急投票的特別是台灣民眾黨現在提出來版本國內移轉投票有沒有可能 有沒有可能如果你獲得提名完之後我剛剛講的是三個階段 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
15517.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
15534.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
游英龍公投到了民進黨黨團連總統大選都可以了有沒有可能進來之後如果成功被提名通過這個中選會的這個提名之後進來之後有沒有可能在今年的年底縣市長的投票有可能可以做不在籍投票嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
15536.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
15564.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
我想謝謝委員那個詢問就是不在於投票現在當然要等那個法律通過嘛所以中選會作為獨立機關最重要值得是依法行政啦所以我是很樂見就是說寫期待就是說這個不在於投票法能夠通過那事實上我覺得目前對於不在於投票的一些疑慮我想確實是存是我想可以肯定的事實上你剛提了一個非常重要依法行政是就是民眾黨這個版本已經提出來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
15565.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
15579.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
如果立法院三讀通過的民眾黨這個版本那就是中選會就在依法 依法憲政嘛 對不對那如果來得及的話就是今年年底的縣市長選舉可能就可以開始做這個台灣民眾黨這個版本而且這個版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
15581.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
15607.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
不是什麼有什麼國安餘力什麼境外勢力介入的他沒有國外也沒有兩岸我們這個界定的就是國內的移轉投票就是你還是要親自要去投跟你有提到說這跟通信投票又不一樣對不對所以執行上應該是沒有問題的那我問你一下因為剛剛有這個委員就回答說中選會的行政量能做不到你覺得做不做得到 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
15608.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
15632.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
我覺得中選會當然就是他會一個比較謹慎的態度在面對這個事情啦可是我自己會認為就是說如果真的法律已經通過了那中選會當然就是要盡力去配合辦理那我也認為中選會在一定的時間準備之下是應該有一定的準備的量能去推動這件事情的依法行政然後盡快推動是可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
15632.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
15661.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
有機會在年底依法來行政來做的對不對其實是有可能的事實上你是專門研究選舉的日本都已經實施不再舉投票大概二十幾年了二十幾年了我看那個報導上面寫他說日本連在攔戟日本人去攔戟都可以投票他們甚至可以提前投票跟美國都是一樣的南韓也有嘛他們號稱科技大國怎麼我們的技術是有問題的連我們的移工 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
15663.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
15690.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
在台灣的印尼的移工 菲律賓的移工他們都有投票啊所以老實講我們要趕快去推動要不然真的會被世界上笑啦好 OK這個題希望你以後可以盡力去推動那當然就是可能有些人可能意見會不一樣可是最重要最重要的就是這個法有沒有在最近完成三讀另外我看你的回答裡面有一個非常重要的這個上次總統大選的時候啊有一個非常有名的這個網紅 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
15693.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
15710.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
愛麗莎莎 她因為轉發了有些民眾有在質疑說是不是有作票結果後來你們中選會就告了她了後來沒有起訴 黃國昌就在問她說中選會到後來一句抱歉都沒說 你怎麼看這樣一個事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
15713.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
15734.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
我想中選會作為一個獨立機關它的基本的做法應該以公開呈現為主要優先的一個選項我想提起訴訟這個是一個比較相對來講我覺得個人來講是一個比較激烈手段呈現把事實呈現不是急於去輕鬆你的態度是這樣所以以後希望中選會不要急著去輕鬆最後問一個問題最要緊的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
15737.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
15753.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
這個去年引起最大爭議的就是國民黨提了實質廢死的這個公投在中選會被廢掉了你怎麼看這樣一個事情如果你當選了中選會的這個委員之後如果再來提一次這個實質廢死這個案子你會怎麼樣來處理這個案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
15757.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
15782.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
這個問題確實是比較在憲政協議上我覺得是比較有真理的不過我簡單回答就是立法院所提的公投案依照目前這個公投法的規定其實中選會是沒有審查權的所以當立法院真的提了這樣公投案我想中選會我如果說這個案子重新這個同樣發生的話中選會必須依法辦理那只是說確實這個用憲法 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
15783.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
15807.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
就是公投去推翻憲法判決本身這個事情的這個議題我覺得我作為一個學者我是有一點疑慮的不過作為一個中選會這個獨立機關的角色我認為就是依法行政我想這是最優先的考量中選會去沒收立法院的這個提案那不就變成是太上立法院了對不對 而且你講到一個重點你今天質詢 我覺得你答詢得非常好你都是依法行政在做事情所以如果這個案子如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
15808.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
15815.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
最近又被提出來 請依法行政來做事情不要急於去沒收 好不好好 好 非常謝謝謝謝委員 謝謝主席謝謝 我們感謝張之凱委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
15828.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
15850.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
我們繼續經營被提名人蘇志喬先生說明跟詢問都已經結束了在這裡被提名人蘇志喬先生可以先行離席我們休息兩分鐘 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
15858.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
15867.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
一幕,一幕啦,我們要五分啊,改兩分啊,開始啦,前輩,前輩,馬上好,欸,兩分鐘啊,DJ,啊,這樣喔,這個,這個,這個,這個主持人, |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
15891.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
15900.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
今天等於說對我們來講就是七場啦所以一定要切啦對,對我們來講就是七場 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
15912.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
15925.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
主席主席主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
15938.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
15939.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
30秒30秒他有那個壓縮那個時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
15967.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
15979.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
我們繼續進行被提名人陳忠義先生說明及詢問這中選會委員被提名人陳忠義先生說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
15990.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
16006.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
主席 張紅蘿委員 吳啟明委員 在座各位官員我是這次中選委員被提名人陳忠義很榮幸也很高興能夠來立法院來答詢 接受審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
16008.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
16031.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
我想今天坐下來 我是當然 人家說好酒定慢醉不是淡於中宿 那我想今天聽了吳思瑤的選舉創意美學我們很有啟發 也聽到張宏祿委員對選辦法第98條之一虛為欠席戶籍 意圖使人當選五年以下有期徒刑 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
16032.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
16044.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
所以我們都聽到很多委員的寶貴意見我們都會吸收來加以運用那我有能性的通過的話我一定會秉持公正公平獨立專業依法來執行職務謝謝各位 謝謝 以上謝謝 感謝蕭明我們前期的委員長黃國昌委員黃國昌委員黃國昌委員不在 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
16064.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
16077.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
比提名人陳忠義先生說明及諮詢已經結束了比提名人陳忠義先生可以先行離席 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].start |
16081.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].end |
16106.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].text |
本次會議定期的這項跟問出委比提名人的本院委員除了不在場議員全都已經發言完畢 審討結束委員有蘇巧慧 莊瑞雄 高金樹梅 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].start |
16107.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].end |
16129.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].text |
在博弈省發會所提出的書面執行列入紀錄 刊登公報委員會這順中間有要求提供相關資料與密度報告報告的部分將行政院與相關機關進行書面答覆 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].start |
16134.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].end |
16163.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].text |
報告聯席會對院會交付審查行政院寒送中央委員選舉委員會委員提名名單游一龍為委員並為主任委員胡柏諺為委員並為副主委委員黃文玲 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].start |
16164.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].end |
16176.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].text |
李立忠 蘇嘉鴻 蘇芝喬 陳忠義軍委委員請同意案 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].start |
16185.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].end |
16193.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].text |
審查完均做以下的關係本院審查完均依六款依之前行使法第29條的第三項規定以2月13日依據審查報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].start |
16205.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].end |
16210.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].text |
提請院會公決請問各位委員有沒有什麼意義沒有 我們就通過本案與院會討論的時候由王召集委員會補充說明請問各位委員 還有什麼問題沒有沒有 我們就通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].start |
16233.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].end |
16246.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].text |
本院各黨團隊被提名人的主席及四任性所提出的書面問題及行政院 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].start |
16248.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].end |
16269.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].text |
含糊就被提名人所提出的相關資料據列入紀錄刊登公報審查會到此結束本次議定處理完畢現在散會感謝大家謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].start |
16273.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].end |
16284.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].text |
現在兩雙腹耶醫生長,謝謝喔辛苦了,辛苦了,辛苦了,辛苦了加油,加油,加油謝謝,謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].start |
16298.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].end |
16320.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].text |
謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝 |