| IVOD_ID |
17233 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17233 |
| 日期 |
2026-01-28 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2026-01-28T10:48:16+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-01-28T12:35:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
01:46:44 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/cbbd4ed0b5fcd3a0d3a2b43aa665e40753de1a54665dc3f1e692bdb9a1e4797735f06cf3a7658cb65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-01-28T11:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院黨團協商（事由：一、研商「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案」、「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案」、「公職人員選舉罷免法第五十三條條文修正草案」、「公職人員選舉罷免法第五十二條條文修正草案」及「公職人員選舉罷免法第三十二條及第四十三條條文修正草案」等5案。（台灣民眾黨黨團提議）二、研商「衛星廣播電視法部分條文修正草案」等案。（國民黨黨團、台灣民眾黨黨團提議）三、研商「國民黨黨團、台灣民眾黨黨團，建請院會作成決議：115年度總預算案中，具有急迫性及攸關重大民生之新興資本支出及新增計畫，本院同意先行予以動支，請公決案。」相關事宜。（國民黨黨團提議）四、研商「台灣民眾黨黨團，建請院會作成決議：邀請行政院院長率同相關部會首長就『臺美關稅談判之進程、方針、原則及產業衝擊影響評估』於1個月內進行專案報告，請公決案。」相關事宜。（台灣民眾黨黨團提議）五、研商「住宅法部分條文修正草案」等案。（台灣民眾黨黨團提議）六、研商「政黨及其附隨組織不當取得財產處理條例第四條及第三十四條條文修正草案」等案。（國民黨黨團提議）） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:48:16 - 12:35:00 |
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好謝謝,謝謝各位黨團幹部、各位列席官員各位列席所有的工作夥伴我們現在時間已到,我們因為今天題目比較多,時間壓力比較大,所以我們要準時開始國民黨團黨編、民進黨黨的黨編,現在等台灣民眾黨團的黨編,好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
730.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
754.873 |
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我們先介紹一下現在列席的閣員首先我們歡迎內政部的劉部長 歡迎您中選會的吳太理主委 再次歡迎司法院民視廳的林廳長 歡迎您法務部的楊檢察官 歡迎您第一題 這個上一次我們已經聽到內政部中選會還有司法院的說明大家都已經有了一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
756.494 |
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782.191 |
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心中都有一個決定說擇其在意那現在台灣民眾黨團又在發文又針對這個選罷法我們今天有六個題目等一下請台灣民眾黨團針對第一個題目要先發言第二題是衛星廣播電視法修正案第三題是一百一十五年杜總預算新興計畫先行動之案第四題是邀請行政院院長就台美關稅談判進行專案報告案第五題是住宅法修正案 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
783.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
802.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
第六題是黨產條例修正案那我們現在從第一題第一題台灣民眾黨團所正式發文來那也要提醒一下台灣民眾黨團上次我們聽完列席的官員報告還有各黨團決定擇期再議這個案但是今天又來了所以請台灣民眾黨團請先說明謝謝張七開委員請 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
810.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
836.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
公職員選舉罷免法第67條第69條修正草案請民眾黨上次提的這個公職人員這個罷免法這個修正最主要要推動的是那個是那個不在即投票對我們是那部分今天是32跟43現在就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
838.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
863.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
當選後沒有報到或者是退選的那個保證金要提問那是不是請國民黨團民進黨團簡單表達一下意見柯董事長請那個柯董事長講的也很清楚上次我們已經達成共識擇其在意表達非常清楚那請國民黨團羅志強市長請 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
867.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
893.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
因為上次有做折旗在意的結論,我們尊重民眾黨,如果覺得折旗在意的話,我們就繼續維持張旗改跟陳昭之委,這個案子我們就折旗在意,下會期好不好,會更完善折旗我們再行協商好嗎,因為上次我們上個禮拜才做成決定要表決還是要下決?下會期我們再進行折旗好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
899.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
912.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
好,我們第一題選罷法,我們下會期再處理我們下會期擇期,我們再來協商,好謝謝謝謝列席的官員,謝謝我們第二題是衛星廣播電視法修正案 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
928.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
956.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
好 謝謝我們列席的國家通訊傳播委員會陳代理主委好 謝謝您請坐經管會陳專門委員好 歡迎您經濟部商業發展署的熊組長內政部民政司的蔡世察法務部的汪參事好 歡迎您 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
958.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
964.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
司法院的陳廷長 歡迎您行政院主計總署的吳專門委員 歡迎 謝謝針對衛星廣播電視法 麻煩國民黨團來新聞 請國民黨團表達意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
998.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
1008.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
那衛廣法我們上次這個政黨協商的部分其實本來只剩下第19條66條之一就是還沒有協商的結論那但是因為後來這個民進黨沒有簽署這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
1015.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
1038.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
就是我們已經協商通過但是沒有完成簽署嘛那是不是要請民眾黨團表示一下說是哪些條文還有對民進黨團有哪些地方是有意見的對已經通過的協商的條文好 肉圓講得非常清楚民進黨團既然有把握意見請表述你們的理由 請好 有關衛生法講白了就是中間條款我們無法接受 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
1040.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
1065.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
柯文哲講得非常清楚他無法接受那請台灣民眾黨團張祺凱 張副總統請表達意見衛廣法上次有草野協商的時候有通過了我們的公開透明這個條款就是只要是衛星廣播電視他有這個拿了政府的這個標案或者是補助必須定期要在網站上面NCC指定網站上面要公開 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
1066.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
1086.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
那這一部分我比較強調為什麼我當初會做這樣一個修訂是因為民進黨本來舉的是黨政經退出退出媒體那廣電三法裡面上也明定說一定要確保新聞自由跟媒體的這個獨立可是前日有發生一個就是三立入主的這個仲加的這個案子而且 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
1087.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
1102.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
這段時間發現每一年基於政府重大的標案跟補助很多都集中在某些媒體的上面所以我們才上次會要求做這個決定上次大家也已經通過了 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
1103.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
1117.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
可是我要提兩個很重要的點第一個就是NCC在2024年3月那時候本席就有質詢了當時的主委陳耀祥在交通委員會他親自跟我承諾說不只是修衛廣法 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
1118.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
1140.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
他修整個廣電三法要落實民眾黨所謂的公開透明所以包括這個有限廣播電視法跟廣播電視法到現在都沒有提出來所以一方面我們要堅持就是黨政之間推出媒體是民進黨當初喊的請民進黨不要反對也特別不要反對這個公開透明那我們現在願意給時間就是把 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
1143.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
1160.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
把這個上次衛廣法馬上要實施這個是不是要廣電三法同時來可是我們要求今天NCC要明確的承諾你說六個月內要把這個三合法的法案同時修正案同時提出來我們到時候要做一個修正動議這樣子好 謝謝張經理副總編補充意見 副總編我們要再次回顧 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
1173.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
1196.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
這個民進黨從黨外一直到執政不斷地強調台灣是民主的國家必須要有新聞的自由黨政區所有啊與政黨有關的這些相關的這些組織跟體系要來退出啊媒體退出校園退出軍方結果民進黨這樣的要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
1197.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
1219.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
結果國民黨完全退出軍中包括校園包括媒體民進黨趁勢比過去封建的國民黨還要更加的腐敗更加的控制更加的把這個黑手深入校園深入媒體深入軍中所以今天 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
1221.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
1238.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
把NCC當作執政者的這樣的一個控制媒體的一個打手動輒只要跟執政黨跟民進黨立場相左的這些媒體就受到一連串的檢查一連串的打壓 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
1239.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
1259.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
甚至把這樣的一個第四權的民主執照這個新聞執照來把它調造這是非常非常離譜的一個事情所以今天要求公開透明甚至要有彈性就是讓媒體的新聞自由在台灣留下一線生機我們在這裡再一次的強調 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
1261.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
1276.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
民進黨應該回頭思案不要忘記當時建黨的初衷好好的來支持讓NCC讓相關的法律能夠更加的透明更加的有彈性來支持台灣的媒體民主自由 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
1277.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
1301.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
好 謝謝那各位黨團幹部我們一條一條來根據朝野協商所達成的共識以及保留部分我們來順一下好不好一條一條來好 第四條請大家看一下目前是不與修正維持現行條文請問各黨團幹部有意見嗎沒有意見好 第五條是照協商條文通過陳培鈺委員有意見嗎對啊好 那我們就 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
1303.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
1315.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
反對保留了我們送院會處理第十條我們照協商條文通過請問有意見嗎反對好我們保留第十條送院會處理第十二條之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
1317.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
1344.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
現在這個陳培宇委員可能你要表達意見柯總召請表達意見反對反對我們保留送院會這裡沒關係沒關係我們沒關係他現在保留了第十七條十二條十二條之一十二條之一我剛有強調因為我在質詢的時候NCC是說三個法同時都要提那現在沒有提嘛所以我們現在就說把這個時間例如說給六個月的這個時間然後你們提出來以後我們再來審第十二條這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
1345.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
1368.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
我們有提這個負債結議我們就是保留送醫院費我們有提這個負債結議因為他們是有反對意見我問他不是說對 負債結議你順著講好 請羅志強署長請聽議長報告一下剛剛那個民眾黨的意見大概是說因為希望衛廣跟有廣的這個相關的規範能夠一致化嘛那因為現在只有衛廣沒有有廣的一致化所以基本上 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
1369.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
1384.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
應該是不予處理這個條文但是附帶決議是說將來應該要一併的油管跟衛管來處理油管透明化的問題所以其實這條文是今天如果說民進黨也反對那就不予爭定喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
1385.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
1403.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
對,不予爭定啦,不予爭定好,那我們就不予爭定好,謝謝,第12條之一,不予爭定我們現在進入17條各位黨團各位要犯案,直接舉手因為我剛剛問的都是他們有保留意見的所以我特別問一下民進黨團的有意見,你可以隨時可以舉手陳佩玉署長,請表達意見柯總召請 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
1404.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
1429.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
反對反對 那反對的我們就保留了 好吧 送院會那個NCC代理主委你有意見隨時可以隨時可以發言 好嗎不用客氣 好不好我怕我萬一沒有點到你 對你不好意思好 我們就第17條我們快速就是保留送院會處理好 進入第18條目前為止第18條我們是不是照協商條文通過反對 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
1433.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
1447.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
好 柯總召提出反對我們保留送院會處理好 我們現在進入第19條也是保留送院會的 柯總召好 第19條保留送院會囉 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
1449.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
1471.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
NCC陳代理處,您有意見嗎?我都沒有尊重你發言,我都不好意思。好,OK,他也同意。我們第20條,不許修正,維持現行條文,大家同意嗎?同意。羅志強署長,張其凱副總召。同意。好,我們第20條,不許修正,維持現行條文,謝謝。第49條,不許修正,維持現行條文,可以嗎?可以。 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
1472.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
1500.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
同意好謝謝我們第50條照協商條文通過有意見嗎柯主席反對明確表示反對我們第50條我們就保留聳院會處理張氣凱副總裁有意見嗎好謝謝第58條之一照協商條文通過可以嗎更正更正更正再修正因為他提案是58條之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
1506.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
1523.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
不予增訂了?不予增訂了?第58條之一不予增...不予增訂了?58現在提案是第58?他提案是58條之一,然後條字改過,所以原先提案是58條之一提案是58條之一,條字已經改過,現在是58條之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
1527.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
1544.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
不予增訂請問各位黨團幹部有沒有意見五十七條之一我們現在同意不予增訂可是我們剛剛落就是本黨要求公開透明那個一定要落實喔而且是廣電商法的同時所以今天NC職務委員會在代理職務委員會在現場六個議員的一定要提真正我們的布袋結一定要提出來好OK陳主委請表達意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
1545.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
1565.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
跟主席跟各位人報告這邊我們會盡量的做但是因為NCC這段時間的運作法案沒辦法提出透過行政體系的版本因為我們六個月我比較沒辦法沒有人有把握做到可不可以我們盡快就是法案要經過NCC委員會議我們現在沒有委員會議主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
1568.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
1594.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
跟總統跟院長講 趕快提啊我們盡量 趕快把委員補齊我們就堅持六個月好 那我們第五十八條之一就不予爭定大家有意見嗎沒有意見 好 第五十八條之一不予爭定現在進入第六十六條之一我們保留送院會處理不予爭定 六十六條之一不予爭定 大家要表達意見同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
1596.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
1598.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
沒有意見我們第66條之一,我們不予爭定我們附帶決議來,我們先念一遍附帶決議,請各位黨黨幹部仔細聆聽 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
1611.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
1638.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
未促进资讯透明及公众参与对于具广大影响力之新闻及财经新闻频道时应公开揭露各项公共利益有关之重要资讯以落实股权透明财务透明及补助透明之原则经考量卫星广播电视事业无线电视事业有线电视事业新闻台间之横评与公平竞争原提案国家通讯传播委员会应于六个月内 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
1640.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
1658.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
廣泛徵詢閱聽大眾專家學者及廣電業者之意見並提出修法版本提案人台灣民眾黨立法院黨團宣布完畢那個各黨團幹部針對台灣民眾黨團所提的附帶決議有沒有寶貴意見柯總召 副總召 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
1664.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
1690.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
剛剛代理主委剛剛代理主委所講到說這個是不是啊六個月你說目前委員會開不成兩個很簡單的事實嘛那你要趕快請敦請賴總統盡快提名要社會大眾可以接受的人像這次的這個中選會委員一樣嘛可以徵詢各個 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
1692.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
1715.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
政黨提出更適合的人選大家經過廣泛的討論以後廣納社會賢達來到NCC能夠真的對新聞自由能夠尊重的人而不是成為御用的打手在執行命令的人然後沒有連任離開了NCC以後再來嗆NCC是一言堂 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
1718.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
1725.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
兩位離開的委員公開的表示在NCC裡面就是議員堂上面只是怎麼樣就怎麼做 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
1726.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
1751.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
我們不希望這樣的情況去控制了我們國內的新聞自由所以在這裡希望你趕快反映賴總統盡快提出適當的人選也徵詢各個政黨提出適當的人選我相信NTT很快就能夠圓滿的組成這其一啦那其二你說現在委員會沒有辦法開但你們也可以把你們的意見現有委員的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
1754.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
1782.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
徵詢各單位NCC內部各單位的專業的意見把它彙整起來彙整起來我們並沒有要求你NCC一定要委員會通過你可以先送進來給各政黨你們彙整的意見是怎麼樣我們也可以當作這是NCC的主要意見我們也會尊重你們的意見之後我們再行來提相關的修正版本大家一起來討論所以六個月真的太久了 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
1783.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1790.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
真的太久了NCC這麼龐大的組織這麼多專業的人員需要六個月嗎代理主委需要六個月嗎跟總統報告我們會盡快處理就是幕僚作業我們都會加快處理三個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1801.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1827.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
還是維持這個提案黨團的那就六個月吧 好 謝謝你 那我們恭候 好不好這個求高德忠啊那個副總召 現在你講的都非常好 重點是這個附帶決議你有沒有意見沒有意見 同意好他現在是在 又有意見發表了張 齊 凱 副總召這個附帶這個附帶決議非常的重要同意啦 都同意不是不是 這個附帶我要強調一下因為現在主委還在講說六個月可能太長 我要先強調一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
1828.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
1840.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
這個是重中之重 這從柯文哲選總統的時候台灣民眾黨就提出了這個公開透明然後第一個會期 兩年前這個案子就提出來了終於 我們終於過了 為什麼因為人民已經受不了了 現在民進黨政府現在把很多政府的這個標案還有一些補助都給了某些特定這個媒體這特定媒體又幫你們講話甚至變成是民進黨執政黨的第二文宣部委 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
1855.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
1877.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
這命都已經受不了 要求要改我們現在終於在衛廣法這部分已經完成了這部分那現在因為你們提出來說還有廣電三法要同時嘛 對不對所以我們是給你時間喔我們是要求六個月內你的三法全部都要提出來不只不能偷 你還要去加速 還要去進行所以是兩個現在那個國民黨都已經要求要收減成三個月啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
1878.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
1898.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
我們現在提了六個頁,當然我們可以先同意六個頁可是有兩個一定要做到第一個就是廣電商法,同時都要提出來第一個一定要改正目前黨檢沒一提的這個弊病之前民進黨自己在講那個什麼黨政經退出沒一提結果現在有嗎?民進黨手是不是伸到媒體裡面去了所以這個法案我們非常非常的堅持好,謝謝陳培一委員請簡短二要請 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
1904.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
1918.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
好 謝謝韓院長提醒我簡短扼要我要說張祺凱你又在造謠就一直要惡意指涉某一家電視台我覺得我們剛剛討論的氣氛是很和諧的我不知道你為什麼要這樣說那我之前已經有相關資料都已經告訴大家了我就不要再講哪一家媒體 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
1919.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
1944.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
踢台2016年起連年獎獲大俄政府表揚2017年有超過1.9億元2021年2.6億2022年4.182023年5.58到底是什麼特定電視台的意思我覺得就法案協商的時候就就法論法就事論事喔好不好我覺得不要再惡意的造謠那我真的希望我們今天協商可以和平處理謝謝陳培委員簡短不扼要攻防很激烈好柯中超請 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
1945.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
1974.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
我還是要相信針對內容不要再提外的插播好不好謝謝柯總長那個謝謝院長因為剛剛院長在問附帶決議那本席剛剛是回應代理主委他的說法因為他講了我們當然要回應嘛那更重要的是對你可以回應他當然可以我剛剛是回應主委那當然附帶決議本身我們是覺得是應該要做到的我們沒有意見也希望能夠做到 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
1974.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
1979.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
好 謝謝大家平行近期下我們先來唸一下協商草稿 請大家確認一下好嗎好 開始唸 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
1986.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2009.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
謝謝 呃 協商的結論 請大家仔細聆聽一 第四條 第二十條 第四十九條 六十六條之一 均不予修正 維持現行條文二 增訂第十二條之一及增訂第五十八條之一 均不予增訂三 第五條 第十條 第十七條 第十八條 第十九條及第五十條均保留 送請院會處理四 增列附帶決議項 如復見 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2013.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
2034.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
五 其餘軍造審查會審查結果通過六 本案院會進行處理時廣泛討論由各黨團推派一位發言逐條討論我們就不再發言逐條時保留條文一 各黨團版本進行表決各黨團可以嗎可以好 麻煩大家請簽字謝謝對 如復見通過了好 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
2041.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
2065.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
謝謝NCC我們列席的所有的官員,謝謝您好,謝謝大家的今天參與我們現在進入第四我們進入第三題115年度總預算新興計畫先行動之案謝謝,麻煩請 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
2068.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
2096.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
謝謝因為我們空間有限換場的速度要稍微快一點點拜託大家時間壓力很大行政院政務的副秘書長阮昭雄副秘書長到了嗎好謝謝歡迎您財政部阮次長財政部阮次長內政部董次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
2097.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
2121.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
好 請國防部徐副部長好 歡迎您教育部張料萬堅政務次長好 歡迎您經濟部何政務次長好 歡迎您謝謝勞動部洪部長好 歡迎衛福部呂政務次長好 歡迎歡迎 請坐環境部彭部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
2125.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
2149.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
行政院主席總署陳副主席長請歡迎行政院人事行政總署張副人事長歡迎請坐河東安全委員會陳主任委員歡迎您中央選舉委員會吳代理主委歡迎您故宮博物院蕭院長歡迎交通部陳政務次長歡迎農業部黃政務部長政務次長歡迎 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
2156.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
2167.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
運動部理部長好 歡迎數維發展部葉次長歡迎財政部的阮次長到了嗎阮次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
2171.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
2189.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
沒關係我等,因為財政部非常重要的簽法,阮市長到了嗎?今天是阮市中心會啊,我們新政院的阮副秘書長,財政部的阮市長,阮市中心會開會啊好,謝謝,我們進入國民黨團來韓,請國民黨團先說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
2198.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
2205.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
關於重大急迫的民生預算新興資本跟新增計劃的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
2206.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
2234.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
那事實上民進黨過去一直在宣傳說包括TPAS生育津貼老舊校舍非常擔心說今天無法動之造成說延宕的一個情況所以今天國民黨我們跟民眾黨提出來先同意與動之那當然按照我們的那個議事程序有一個月的冷凍期所以在這邊我還是公開也鄭重的 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
2234.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
2255.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
呼籲民進黨的黨團能夠針對這38項就是新增計畫的一些急迫的民生預算能夠不要再堅持這個所謂一個月的協商期那如果今天大家達成共識的話其實禮拜五的院會就可以通過這個同意動之案 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
2255.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
2275.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
那我覺得這才是放下黨爭名聲優先的一個至少是一個示範啦否則的話很多東西基本上我覺得對國民黨來說有些立場我們覺得必須要守住民進黨可能有自己立場要守住但是不管怎麼講TPAS通勤族的權益生育津貼老舊銷售這個部分的話能不能請我們的民進黨黨團高抬貴手 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
2280.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
2296.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
能夠讓這些預算可以先於動之來實現民進黨強調民生的這樣的一個所謂的政策的用意那一起來讓這些預算可以先於動之 以上好 謝謝被呼籲的柯總召請發言我仔細聽 滿口瞎話 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
2300.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
2314.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
這個總計算要過是全部過了不是讓你挑戰解釋的你這根本在擋針嘛 你要放下擋針你用政治都是手法在處理國家總計算 這個棋局不可我們對於這樣的事無法接受 好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
2316.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
2346.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
院長 無好接受柯總總表達非常清楚麻煩請台灣民眾黨團請表達意見柯總總說要全部過去年後來就全部過啦去年你們也是違法編列啊嚴肅你盡管補償不給啊工薪收購不給啊 對不對那後來不就是草野協商完之後行政院長也簽名啦後來不就全部 婦委就討論就全部過啦那去年成功的模式你們要全部過為什麼你們不趕快提呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
2347.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
2354.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
現在我要先更正一個很重要的概念第一個現在宗嘉斌就不在了宗嘉斌跟陳培宇在1月22號在黃國昌跟羅志強聯合主持的這個協商裡面抹黑造謠然後那個牌子說現在我們只要審的這是要放行的新興計畫只有2%你們大跑以後我問了所有的部會的首長 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
2375.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
2397.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
請問你們薪水有沒有領到嗎沒有 你舉手啊因為依照預算法的規定只要是去年的預算只要是延續性的預算一毛錢都沒有減 馬上就可以執行你們拿來一個2% 請你們等一下等一下 趕快澄清不要再造謠 不要再抹黑第二更重要為什麼今天有提這個新興的計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
2400.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
2404.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
不就是民進黨一直在那邊叫說TPAS沒有嗎防洪治水沒有嗎你們在叫我們幫你們解決問題人民要的我們趕快給你們剛剛柯總召講的你要治本就是像去年結果你們不要做現在提那個治標的依照預算法本來比較緊急的立法院通過就可以先動結果你們放毒不解毒結果現在我們要給人民最需要的新興計畫你們又來擋你們這樣怎麼對得起人民呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
2430.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
2440.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
所以我們現在鄭重的呼籲第一個說話用不著聽你傻傻的講第一個你不要再講不要再亂講現在我在發言請不要亂講好不好現在溫度升高了我跟你講的是預算法你在這邊這麼資深的你預算法都弄不清楚嗎我還要照道理來講對啊你照預算法你沒有講道理我講了哪一點沒有道理你們澄清淫謀黑的只有2%這個趕快澄清第二個有資本照去年模式趕快把金人加薪每個月3萬塊把警消人員所的替代率8成 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
2459.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
2462.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
你們只要簽白紙黑字簽完我們就開始審啊這不叫資本嗎這成本就過了啊不就是你要的嗎你們然後呢你們又在喊要治標治標我們就提的方案你們又不通過你們這樣怎麼對得起人品你們現在擋的是什麼防洪治水的錢耶T-box的錢你們也繼續擋嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
2480.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
2502.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
我呼籲啊 禮拜五就處理 進行表決趕快讓這筆錢可以通過 可以救急趕快治本又治標在民進黨團陳培宇書記長發言之前 容我提醒一下程旭等一下行政部門要推派一位我想請阮副理事長準備發言好嗎好 陳培宇委員 陳培宇書記長麻煩現在溫度升高降低一點 請 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
2505.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
2515.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
報告韓院長溫度不是我決定是所有出席的委員決定當然還包含您跟周萬蘭秘書長我要鄭重抗議溫度不是我來決定的再來我要感謝羅志強還有張祺凱你們都說了民進黨一直提醒你們一直提醒你們TPAX有問題治水有問題生育補助有問題學校有問題所以你們現在怕了我告訴你我那天不是落跑我是懶得跟你們講話而且呢你為什麼不敢承認就是因為民進黨點出問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
2534.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
2537.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
你們現在採用這個爛方法想要解決我們總預算從什麼時候送進來8月29號送進來到今天153天了你為什麼不敢面對總預算你剛剛自己講得很好啊用去年的方法去年什麼方法去年就是每一個委員辦公室都認真的提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
2550.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
2555.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
讓總預算副委實質討論當然你們去年用了很爛的方法你們亂刪亂砍所以你們現在不敢面對就像沈博洋說的你們不想讓人民看見你們亂刪亂砍預算的嘴臉所以你現在連總預算都不敢審了就是你不敢審了還好意思講用去年的方法你自己講聽清楚把這句話還給你還有再次強調我不是落跑不要再造謠了我是根本就不想跟你們講話 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
2572.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
2575.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
今天我們尊重韓院長召開這個院長等級的協商所以我出面告訴你總預算你們不審最大的問題就是你們還有我要再說不是民進黨不給錢現在是你們藍白不給錢你看著這一張張旗刊你看著這一張所以你要告訴我不列在這個上面都不重要嗎全台灣人民看清楚了 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
2592.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
2595.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
是羅志強 張啟凱告訴全台灣人民其他的都不重要其他的你們都不想審其他的你們都不想討論你們不是要實質監督嗎為什麼不敢復為審查為什麼不敢實質討論還是你們辦公室因為覺得自己要畢業了所以連預算提案連提都不理要不要告訴大家預算提案要不要寫預算要不要審查預算要不要討論然後進到院會表決像去年一樣話再還給你像去年一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
2619.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
2646.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
這保證沒有降溫,只有增溫,好不好張經理,你不要生氣,看我眼睛我現在請行政院發言之後,我要進行宣告了好,阮副理事長,請發言是,謝謝主席讓我可以有降溫的機會這非常感謝能夠讓行政院發表意見不過行政院的立場很堅定,也一貫我們期待總預算可以儘速復違來審查我想這個才是福國利民最好的做法,以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
2647.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
2669.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
謝謝阮副秘書長的說明,對不起我要做宣告,因為我們下面還有好幾個題目。第一,我做宣告三點,請大家稍後可以表達不同意見。一,第三題新興計畫的協商,各黨團目前意見不一致,還要繼續溝通。目前這個案子還在冷凍期,如果沒有協商結論,院會也沒有辦法進行處理。 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
2670.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
2698.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
因此希望大家還是保持溝通二 行政部門也請行政院主席長將經常性的經費及延續性的計畫較上年度各機關別增加數額及項目提供給各黨團參考主席 副主席長到了嗎我剛剛講這個很重要喔好 第三 本案擇期再協商請問各位黨團幹部有沒有意見請副總召 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
2701.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
2726.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
國民黨團立場非常清楚總預算當然是要依法編列國會才能夠依法審查剛剛講了這麼久一個違法的行政院把總統都已經公告國會通過刪除的法律總統府公告總統他一個人可以決定總預算要不要編這是什麼政府啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
2727.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
2755.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
一人可以決定啊國會通過的東西他可以不實施然後叫在野黨來審查違法的總預算是誰先不遵守法律的這第一個第二個今天也是執政黨要求對這些新興計畫人民的權益重不重要再三的呼籲以後我們才把這些預算把它抽出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
2756.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
2768.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
尤其是TPAS北北 基桃 台中還有很多的縣市基層的通勤族都需要我們把它抽出來以後竟然執政黨在反對我們終於看到啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
2771.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
2796.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
什麼叫台上演一場台下又另外一場完全不一樣的面貌更重要的是一直在講2% 2%我想民眾黨剛剛有強調這個2%的事情我們在這裡正式跟全國國人報告立法院預算中心已經把所有的數字都算出來只要是 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
2800.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
2824.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
持續性的計畫通通可以執行所以115年的總預算目前可以執行的部分有92.5%92.5%92.5%可以執行我們不曉得說我們擋了預算只有2%能放行這個到底是哪裡來的說法 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
2826.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
2850.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
我想我們預算中心給了我們很清楚的一個資料大家就法論法要講事實不要老是用控制的這些媒體宣傳工具不斷的造謠 不斷的造謠 不斷的造謠這是我們所不樂見的各種話都可以講但是要有所根據我們今天講的部分都是依照 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
2852.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
2880.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
國會預算中心所提出來的相關的資料沒有一點是我們自己加油添醋的所以這個部分我們一定要講清楚讓全國國人了解九十二九十二點五的今年的總預算通通可以執行那另外的百分之七點五我們講的很簡單只要行政院依法執行國會通過的相關的這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
2882.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
2896.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
法律案跟預算案更重要的是總統府已經公告了請卓榮泰應該依法編列依法執行好 謝謝我們這個案本案則期再協商謝謝列席的官員我們進入第四案 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
2897.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
2921.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
剛剛已經宣告過了,我們再一個發言完就要折截謝謝各位列席官員,謝謝喔第四案就是台灣民眾黨團建警院會作成決議邀請行政院院長率同相關部會首長就台美關稅談判進程方針原則及產業衝擊影響評估於一個月之內進行專案報告請公決案相關事宜由台灣民眾黨團提議 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
2924.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
2929.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
來我們請列席的官員謝謝大家我們因為要清場一下謝謝接下來我們請提案的台灣民眾黨團請表達意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
2939.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
2960.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
最近這個網路上瘋傳一段影片就是2014年的4月2號當時的立法委員鄭麗君也就是現在的副院長鄭麗君質詢文化部的部長榮應台他罵說馬政府簽署這個服貿的過程黑箱 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
2961.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
2978.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
簽訂前不能講甚至到後面只能審不能改說當時的政府啊傲慢黑箱到底現在人民就問了這次民進黨政府在這次的這個關稅談判不就是正好自打嘴巴就是鄭立堅講的 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
2979.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3008.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
過程黑箱簽訂前不能講事後只能審不能改傲慢黑箱到底嗎所以台灣民眾黨今天正式的這個提案我們邀請行政院院長率同各部會首長就台美關稅談判的進程方針還有原則跟台灣產業可能受到這個衝擊的影響評估在一個月內到立法院提出專案報告並被質詢我也提醒最近的一個重點 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3009.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3013.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
包括賴總統一直在強調說南韓的國會還沒有審就要求說這是台美關稅簽回來的我們全部都要照單簽收要趕快過這裡面有兩個非常嚴重的錯誤的這個類比南韓是在去年的七月份人家整個就已經談好了整個協議了我們到目前為止鄭麗菁說還要過幾個禮拜協議才會完成而且到底有沒有農業被衝擊 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3038.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3058.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
因為到底裡面有多少的項目到現在是不清不楚的這會是一樣嗎時間是不一樣的 第二更重要的到底有哪些項目是後來要增加的不清不楚所以今天我們明確的要求一個月內請行政院長率相關部委首長進行專案報告並備職選好 謝謝 請國民黨 請民進黨團 請表達意見來 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3064.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
3092.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
我希望張旭凱不管你問起來多久講話還是要從你的良心來講話因為福報和這個關鍵談判混為一談你有沒有搞清楚福報當初的福報是馬英九搞的福報整個太陽花學院這兩個完全不一樣等級的東西滿混為一談而且常常一議失議旭凱你講個大聲就好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
3094.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
3112.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
你每個人都長得像黑的狗是要做什麼當然大家都在笑這樣講話要好好講嘛要有道理講 聲音沒有用聲音只是把自己的腦筋沖壞掉而已要講道理 像唯唯道來這樣才有 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
3114.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
3130.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
所以這個抽拔紅帽當作光線談判這個是何其嚴重的一個問題啊這個概念不可如此置喚所以本席在這裡 院長我在這裡集體回應這個事情好了行政院長當然要來報告啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
3132.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
3156.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
盡數嘛所以最快就是我這次議題我們2月20號一晚我們開議那天一併報告這是最快的方式柯文昭先人指路說2月24號開議日的時候昨天本來就要報告並案報告那陳培育署長請稍待一下因為國民黨團還沒講話國民黨團請表達意見之後請陳培育署長請 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
3167.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
3170.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
我想韓國啊發生了國會審查韓美關稅的問題現在川普總統說要把它提到25%說因為韓國國會還沒有通過當我們看到這則新聞的時候很心酸啊院長那個韓院長韓國國會 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
3197.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
3217.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
是還沒有審查完畢我們中華民國國會是從頭到尾就沒有這個案子要交給我們來審我們根本無從審起也無權自著也未曾參與也不能表達意見從頭到尾就是佛約不能說不能說意思告訴我們不能講 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
3220.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
3240.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
跟日本跟韓國都不一樣 日本韓國是政府帶著企業一起去跟美國談判各行各業會卡到哪裡 有哪些要命的問題他們是不能放的 國家不能放的 都要堅持到底的那我們今天談出這個東西來 除了5000億美金 是我們GDP的62%的 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
3243.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
3267.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
這種保護費日本12韓國18.9我們卻要付出62%多還更重要的因為現在國會都沒有看到內容到底蓋牌了多少東西多少東西被蓋牌我們都不知道那這樣的情況之下中華民國國會是不能審查到現在為止都看不到然後就要執行了真的中華民國國會比照韓國國會 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
3273.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
3291.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
我們真的到底這個政府中華民國政府有沒有尊重國會我們到現在內容都不曉得也只是聽到報宅媒體說怎麼樣一份專案報告給我們都沒有我們完全無從表達意見也完全不知道怎麼審查所以民眾黨要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
3293.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
3312.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
這個總統大院長要到立法院來報告這不是報告國會廳而已啊中國國人都需要都想要知道到底的細節內容是什麼還有農林榆木農林榆木是不是主要的內容是什麼我們都不曉得是不是對美國零關稅開放農林榆木我們也不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
3313.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
3329.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
還有汽車到底以後未來進來汽車是不是零關稅我們國內的汽車產業是不是業績一定要全倒這是何其嚴重的問題但是我們現在完完全全無法製作因為沒有任何的資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
3330.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
3359.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
這個要請韓院長要到行政院盡快把相關談判的內容跟資料讓國會能夠了解謝謝好 謝謝國民黨團的發言陳培宇委員發言完畢之後我們就進行處理好嗎好 謝謝院長我保證這一次會降溫我們來看一下我們手上的關係文書是在114年的時候7月就有民眾黨團提出這個希望卓院長到立法院來報告的專案那我們來看一下7月之後去年的7月之後請張綺凱委員可以聽一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
3360.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
3381.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
去年的7月之后发生了什么事情呢到了去年的8月史无前例的我们立法院就在外交国防委员会由当时的外交部还有行政院经贸谈判办公室到外交国防委员会来专案报告当天是机密会议 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
3381.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
3396.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
相关的文件呢我不确定张旗凯委员麦玉珍委员今天出席的民众党提案的委员你们当时有没有出席这个机密会议我本人是有出席的相关的文件呢其实当天杨振宁政委也都有做很多的说明 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
3397.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
3417.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
我以上的說明是為了要回應張祺凱文說把這個事情拿來類比服貿是一個黑箱不透明我要說你就是在說謊你就是在造謠你就是在抹黑當天的機密會議你不來所以你說這是黑箱那我問你為什麼不來你為什麼不來聽聽看為什麼不來看一看當天行政院還有經貿辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
3418.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
3445.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
提供了什么文件当天有哪些在野党的委员有出席你要不要去查一下当天有哪一些在野党委员有出席我欢迎张其凯委员可以去查一下议事处的记录当天到底有哪一些在野党委员有出席然后看了机密文件然后也做了相关的问题跟报告所以请不要再说黑箱不透明 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
3445.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
3449.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
我再強調一次7月份你們有這個提案8月份史無前例的就召開了機密會議請問這麼關心這個事情的民眾黨委員你們當時有多少人出席如果張祺凱委員你當天沒有出席那你可以去請教一下你的同事們他們有誰出席最後我要說 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
3469.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
3494.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
立法院到目前為止我們當然希望在野黨委員要支持後續行政院還有經貿辦談出來的談判結果現在國人都在擔心產業界也在擔心就連許書博先生都在擔心而我們在想的是產業的困境我們在想的是行政院還可以做哪些事情但你們現在想的都是政治鬥爭 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
3495.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
3520.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
你不顧產業不顧人民也就算了還要做出這樣的鬥爭我覺得非常的遺憾非常的可恥非常的荒謬我要再一次強調我現在也要公開呼籲我們很希望後續行政院相關版本送進來的時候可以獲得在野黨委員的支持也請提醒在野黨委員不要再造謠抹黑這件事情類比於服貿真的是毫無歷史感的人才會說出來的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
3521.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
3533.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
好 謝謝陳培書記長那跟各位黨團幹部來報告照剛才幾位黨團幹部共同所表達的以及柯總召直接明確講出2月24號就是我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
3537.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
3563.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
第十一屆第五會期第一次的會議然後開議日請問各黨團幹部有沒有意見抱歉我們堅持是要分開的那2月24號是一個施政報告嘛這個專報另外的時間我們堅持是要分開的我們的提案不要跟施政報告混在一起好沒問題沒問題那2月24號這一天敲定各位下會期的開議日行政院長施政報告大家同意嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
3564.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
3587.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
同意嗎?那個張旗改副總長這點您同意嗎?國民黨團隊2月24號開議我們同意好的 民進黨的國民黨團都同意2月24號開議請問台灣民眾黨團同意那天 可是專報是要分開的我知道你已經講過我聽到了 好好那如果建議的話是3月3號 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
3589.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
3615.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
這個我們請這個行政院長專案報告可以嗎好我們就把它訂在3月3號可以嗎好我們讓我們草泥給我們一點時間草泥好不好那從後面2月24號開議行政院長施政報告3月3號就是這個對美國這個關稅再請行政院長來專案報告一下可以嗎可以我們就根據這樣的一個精神我們開始寫一下好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
3620.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
3638.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
跟院長報告一下因為我們現在正在作業需要一點時間因為待會大家要簽署 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
3649.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
3660.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
要簽署那個台美經貿的這個部分的簽字嘛那現在還有一點時間因為議事處正在作業嘛那我們是不是請那個謝一鋒委員有些意見表達好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
3665.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
3675.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
我是要針對新興計畫這個部分因為我知道我想要請問一下我想要詢問一下我想要確認對於那個內容再確認一下就是說我們的新興計畫就是根據54條那我們現在是通過所有新興計畫還是只是說可以先行動之預算沒有通過預算沒有通過先行動之 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
3693.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
3720.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
那可以先行使用嘛 對不對我是說如果這一條通過以後對 如果通過啦現在問題是民進黨連這個都不放他們當家自己鬧事啊因為根據54條的話就是說只要經過立法院同意的話我們就可以讓行政機關先行動之嘛那現在是不是說我們現在是程序在哪裡冷凍期結束以後是可以先行動之對 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
3722.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
3751.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
現在民進黨在擋啦 民進黨連這個都不放我是說行政機關是不是可以先行控制沒有 我是說行政機關可不可以先行控制報告這一個黨的協商會議因為這一個案本身還冷凍期間所以還要再擇期去協商所以這一個不可能在院會處理當然大家大概 當時大概同意吧就擇期協商啦這案是第三案嘛 就擇期協商啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
3755.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
3784.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
依鳳 等那個冷凍期過了 表決就過了現在是民進黨在擋 所以沒辦法謝謝 我們進入學生通過了以後再直播不要再造謠謝謝依鳳委員我們尊重他對於相關議事規則來請教秘書長張綺凱不要造謠不是民進黨不出你們不給錢嗎就是你們擋的啊冷凍期還是不擋我點菜你才敢給啦 笑死那我剛剛韓國瑜院長說叫相關主席總處把所有的信息不要電出來那到時候你們是不是只過信息不要擋 這筆預算就可以給啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
3785.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
3793.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
你給錢啊總預算一起來審啊為什麼不審呢總預算一起來審啊總預算一起來審啊薪水小胖不上班啊總預算為什麼不審總預算我要審啊8月到現在150幾天啊為什麼不審啊總預算總預算我要審總預算啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
3805.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
3822.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
欸你一樣嘛你去年朝委協商沒去那你怎麼不審呢對啊你趕快把編除啊你現在是違法怎麼審我要審總預算你聽不懂喔總預算都想被你們卡在程序委員會你沒有聽懂總預算被卡在程序委員會總預算被卡在程序委員會你聽不懂啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
3828.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
3853.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
麥醫生委員我看你的眼睛好想發言你要不要發言你稍待一下我先唸一下宣告我一定要發言我沒辦法我要先唸宣告因為我感覺你的眼神炯炯發光一分鐘就好不行不行不行我要唸宣告我先宣告一下第四案我去年也在啊我就問你去年有沒有審找預算你今年為什麼不想審找預算你不敢審嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
3854.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
3864.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
張啟凱為什麼要造謠張啟凱為什麼要造謠你為什麼不敢審找預算好我宣告好不好我做一個宣告張啟凱你要獅子吼一下沒關係我就感覺你要獅子吼一下好不好大家降溫降溫降溫啊謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
3883.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
3899.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
好 麻煩大家看一下我念一下我們就把這個處理掉我們現在做決定一 各黨團同意2月24號星期二舉行第11屆第5會期第一次會議並且與3月3號星期二合併為一次會 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
3904.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
3932.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
本會期至3月6日星期五起每週五及次週二視為一次會議院會國事論壇及臨時提案依往例處理週五上午9點至10點為國事論壇週二下午5點至6點處理臨時提案諮詢期間週二下午2點15分至2點30分處理臨時提案第一次會議一事成以草案禁送院會處理並不進行國事論壇及不處理臨時提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
3933.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
3933.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
我們聽到 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
3936.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
3957.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
要宣告的是2月24號星期二上午10點開會進行相關議程報告事項下午邀請行政院院長率同各部會首長列席進行施政方針及施政報告並備諮詢報告後隨即進行政黨諮詢當日諮詢人數由國民黨團推派一位民進黨團推派一位台灣民眾黨團推派一位進行諮詢順序一國民黨團台灣民眾黨團民進黨團之順序輪流交叉方式進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
3965.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
3974.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
有關質詢期間之順序及人數均依例授權議事處進行辦理施政方針報告委員個人質詢之登記3月10日星期二截止 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
3977.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
3989.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
3.3月3日星期二,邀請行政院長率同相關部會首長列席,提出台美關稅結果及其影響專案報告,並備諮詢。諮詢人數由國民黨團推派10位,民進黨團推派10位,台灣民眾黨團推派2位進行。每委員詢答時間15分鐘。 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
3998.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4018.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
質詢順序依例授權議事處進行辦理名單請於3月2日星期一中午12點前送議事處會診,預時視同放棄4.本第五會期委員參加委員會及各委員會超級委員之選舉不受本院組織法及各委員會組織法及相關授權規定之限制 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4020.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4032.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
各委員會召集委員選舉定於3月11日星期三舉行其日程表如附件5.本第五會期程序委員會依政黨比例由國民黨團推派9位 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4034.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4048.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
民進黨團推派9位,台灣民眾黨團推派1位代表組成名單請於3月12日星期四中午12點前送至議事處會診上述名單送交議事處後即不予更換請問各黨團幹部針對這5項我們所獲得的黨團共識有無意見?沒有意見請簽字好嗎?謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4061.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4074.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
我們現在可以繼續進行下一個案,住宅法嗎?因為時間已經到了11點56分了好,我們繼續,不行,不可以休息住宅法討論完再說,部長都到了我們歡迎內政部劉部長我們進入第五項請大家簽字 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4081.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4103.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
我們現在協商第五個主題國民黨提的住宅法部分修正草案第四期案等四期案本次協商四期案於115年1月27號由內政委會召集委員黃建斌主持過一次黨團協商協商結論中第四條、第十八條、第四十七條、第五十二條均於保留因此於本日我們繼續進行黨團協商 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
4105.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
4125.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
現在我來介紹今天列席的我們各位首長,我們歡迎內政部劉部長,歡迎您。法務部的楊檢察官,歡迎您。衛福部的林視察,歡迎您。好,謝謝。我們請國民黨團,請表達意見好嗎?好,請劉許廷、張靜雯,請。 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
4130.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
4145.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
我跟大家報告一下住宅法經歷內政委員會的幾次審查然後包含昨天進行的這個黨團協商之後大概只剩四個條文還沒有辦法達成共識分別是第四條 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
4148.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
4175.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
18條第47條還有第52條那基本上在昨天的黨團協商的過程中大體上也跟行政機關交換意見但很遺憾朝野沒有辦法達成共識大體上是這個修法強度的問題像第4條這個本黨黨團堅持這個婚育宅的比例至少要保持20%這個立場到今天為止並沒有任何的改變針對第18條有關於社宅登記平台的設計我們認為應該要設計成全國其一而且是事前登記的平台 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
4176.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
4197.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
這樣才能為推動社宅輪候制做準備那麼這些資訊採納民眾黨的意見既然要為建設社宅做事前的安排相關的一些資料也應該要予以公開針對第47條的部分是有關於租屋市場透明化的部分我們當然希望以類別以及每坪的單價作為透明化的標準我們也是堅持 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
4200.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
4222.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
52條的部分是因為在這個當初委員會修正的時候這個語意上有一點點不通暢所以我們今天會提出修正動議依然是要讓這個包租的這個補貼的金額這個不得低於貸款的2.5倍以上這是我們針對這四個條文的意見好謝謝牛許廷的說明非常感謝那國民黨團也沒有黨團也沒有補充的意見沒有我們請民進黨團請表達意見好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
4224.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
4250.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
院長 各位理事代表有關於住宅法有四個條件是保留的我建議是一個條件一個條件來到時候有共識我們明明共識明明共識的話就不必花很多時間在那邊攻防所以一條一條來至於哪一條民進黨會表示黨團意見部長也在這裡可以說明很清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
4252.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
4254.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
好 謝謝柯總召非常清楚的建議 一條一條來 台灣民眾黨團有意見嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
4260.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
4284.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
好 謝謝院長 我們就是針對第一條一條來就是第四條 第四條我們的核心就是說在於就是行政機關就是任意操作就是出租的比例所以明顯就是寫回法例 所以我們這邊的希望就是說百分之十二不是彈性 是最低的 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
4286.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
4290.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
20%不是彈性是最低的保障如果明確下線說實務上就是被壓縮為象徵性的配置所以家庭型的社宅需要長期這樣子的邊緣化所以我們覺得違反社會住宅的原本穩定居住所以支持家庭的政策目的所以彈性 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
4310.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
4315.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
也不能吃掉我們的弱勢的名額所以我們本條就是最低的比例所以我們堅持第四條就是剛才說一條一條來我們就以第四條的目的謝謝麻煩請內政部劉副長表達意見好嗎謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
4328.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
4332.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
是謝謝院長謝謝黨團上面的建議我們昨天在討論有關於這一條條文的時候是有提到說現行我們希望能夠用滾動式的調整那最主要就是說婚育宅有10%到20%當然是相當的不錯的一個比例可是目前為止我們會認為說把20%加到裡面去的話仍然會排擠一般戶跟弱勢戶那在我們住宅法的這一條裡面的弱勢戶就有14種13種以上對不起 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
4358.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
4376.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
所以會造成說未來在社宅的分配比例上面有不公平的狀況但是各位都有提到說婚育宅如果是要確認未來可以跟其他的社會福利相當的話在一定的房型裡面我們希望可以給我們一個滾動調整的空間以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
4380.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
4396.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
嗯 劉部長講得很清楚啊 它需要一個滾動調整的空間那國民黨團有沒有意見要表達這個話我就必須要講得比較不客氣啦當初建設社會住宅的時候 我們也給予政府很大的滾動調整空間啦那結論就是從13萬戶滾動調整成4萬戶啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
4399.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
4425.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
所以我真的覺得如果說政府整個在執行居住正義的政策充滿著善業的非常積極的話那今天在條文的部分我們當然可以接受比較溫和的版本但如果政府機關沒有辦法這個你開實際上執行政策的時候往往是開倒車的時候那我們在法條上就要予以堅持不過要補充說明是行政院自己在宣傳婚育宅這樣一個政策的時候自己就宣傳百分之二十你沒有道理自己宣傳百分之二十然後法條上直接百分之十我覺得蠻奇怪的所以我們會堅持 以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
4427.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
4454.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
謝謝劉啓廷委員的補充說明陳昭志委員要說明是嗎 請第四條我們是不是已經表達過我只是想再強調一點目前這個婚姻的家庭大概已經佔了十幾個百分比那你當然要往前走啊你要往前走啊因為這個是嫂子會中其中之一嘛而且是很重要的一個因素我們沒有理由不往前走所以我們堅持要百分之二十 好 謝謝柯總召請 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
4456.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
4472.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
有關於第四條我們民進黨黨團按照行政院版本至少提供百分之二十我們是予以支持的照行政院版本至少提供百分之二十那是不是毫無意義至少二十 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
4481.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
4488.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
等一下我跟證一下還是提供至少20%我們支持柯總召支持20%那我們現在三個黨團已經達成共識了就提供20%已經達成共識了20%以上至少20%以上我們第四條就修正通過我們進入第 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
4512.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
4524.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
第18條來院長不好意思我們回到一點點邀請內政部這邊文字是不是跟我們再次確認好 劉部長請第4條的部分是嗎對 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
4525.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
4531.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
我們原來就是說以至少10%為原則已經20%的話我們沒有意見但是我還跟大家再表達一下第一個因為這裡面有都會區跟非都會區對婚育宅的比例調整的問題尤其是說如果比較偏鄉地區的話它的婚育比例比較低那我所謂的滾動性的調整的話就是說是不是容許我們在行政空間上面可以跟縣市政府一起來做統一的調配 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
4553.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
4575.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
我們當然20%沒有 也就是北北桃北北桃的婚育宅的比例會比較高但是如果是一些比較離島的部分婚育宅的比例會比較低這個大概我們也在內政委員會跟很多內政委員表達過我們的立場所以我們在調配上面希望可以有給我們這樣空間文字的修正的話我們就尊重黨團三黨的決議通過 謝謝那個部長內政部也同意20%各位黨團還有什麼其他意見嗎沒有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
4581.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
4609.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
沒有意見啦好那我們就修正我建議文字的修正就以我們當初在這個黨團協商提出的修正動議的版本因為第一個我們寫百分之二十第二個我們有講萬一這百分之二十沒有用完他可以留回本來的那個然後再重新分配這樣就不會有空污的問題好 當初有一個修正動議的版本請這邊做參佐 以上好的 這個黃建豪委員等十六位住宅法第十條條例修正案這個版本嘛那個路程看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
4617.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
4639.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
我們再看一下在第一段的後面第一段的後面我們再看一下報告院長那個文字上既然大家有達到共識文字上面是不是授權我們跟那個牛許廷委員再講一下因為有些要符合我們法律條文上面的規定我們很快就會給答案好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
4640.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
4647.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
我們讓內政部劉部長跟劉雪婷委員之間,他們協調一下文字,我們進入下一條OK,休息五分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
4668.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
4669.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
我們這個案子卡了以後 這個會不會結束之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
4687.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
4688.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
下午好不好下午下午 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
4717.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
4727.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
我沒有發功了 我就沒氣勢了我一定要更是把我最多到處來打結束給後面我們休息一會兒最後一段我會再談一段打兩條一路進來就不行了 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
4732.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
4744.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
不討論 明天 朝一星期我的意思是這樣子所以明天就黨產跟社群媒體?不曉得啊 因為會被我們抓公文好 沒問題畢竟禮拜五最後選舉 那個黨產啊那個黨產 牙籌 好不好好 黨產大家坐好 洗衣水 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
4764.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
4765.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
謝謝收看,下次見 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
4781.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
4785.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
嗯嗯 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
4816.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
4817.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
蜂蜜 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
4831.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
4835.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
因為其他就跟我們的規矩有什麼關係所以就是 包出來的這個我都給你來寫上來倒在上面 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
4851.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
4851.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
台子禮物 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
4879.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
4879.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
鞏固 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
4915.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
4916.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
謝謝大家。 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
4922.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
4922.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
謝謝觀看,下次見! |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
4947.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
4964.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
河沙沙沙沙沙 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
4972.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
4974.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
謝謝收看,下次見 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5013.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5014.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5047.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5071.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
謝謝觀賞 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5086.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5102.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
可以拿了 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5128.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5129.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
法定人數不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5151.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5151.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
好了嗎 預表說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5167.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5168.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
好,各位黨團幹部請坐,我們會議開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5195.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
5221.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
好 我們宣讀一下內政部以及我們本院黨團幹部跟劉許廷委員共同所達成的共識條文件第一項修正為主管機關及民間新辦之社會住宅應以直轄市縣市轄區為計算範圍提供至少百分之二十以上比率出租與經濟或社會弱勢出租 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
5222.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
5245.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
提供至少百分之二十比率出租与新婚两年内或育有未成年子女之婚育家庭并提供一定比率与未涉及于当地且在该地区就学就业有居住需求者但申请时婚育家庭数量未达保留比率者剩余部分不在此限其余同现行条文 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
5254.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
5264.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
黃建豪委員的再修正動立法說明立法說明第一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
5265.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
5284.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
婚育家庭之定義為新婚二年內或育有未成年子女之婚育家庭後續將於本法施行細則中予以說明第二點基於城鄉發展之不同百分之二十是以全國社會住宅總量計算以利滾動調整宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
5292.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
5313.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
好 各位黨團幹部沒有意見嘛我們已經都達成共識了好 謝謝我們進入第18條尤其廷委提出的修正動議建請中央主管機關建置全國統一之申請登記平台內政部建議主管機關應建置社會住宅的登記平台尤其廷委你提的修正動議請表達意見好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
5318.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
5334.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
謝謝主席這個一樣是在登記平台的部分那我們都希望社會住宅現在是用抽籤的方式處理但這終究不是長治久安之道我們希望可以逐步讓政策往社宅輪候制的方向來做推進因此有一個統一全國的事前登記的登記平台很重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
5334.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
5363.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
他不只可以為輪候做準備相關收集的一些資訊也可以給政府很好的參考在哪些地方要優先的來建設社宅那麼這些資料應該要進行合理的公開所以這個在我們昨天的黨團協商的時候有提一個比較完整的版本除了全國統一的平台之外最後這個區位新辦戶數房型配比等等資料要一併來做公開以上跟大家報告 謝謝那個牛許廷委員所提出來的修正動議現在各位黨團幹部手上都有嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
5365.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
5370.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
有沒有看到就在各位手上好我們請民進黨團表達意見好嗎謝謝沒有意見民進黨團同意國民黨團那個台灣民眾黨團請表達意見好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
5378.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
5383.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
基黨沒有意見因為我們非常注重這一條過去用運券回收率來處理我們請內政部劉部長表達意見謝謝院長剛剛劉委員所提的修正動議的修正條文的部分當然全國要成立登記的平台我們在內政委員會討論的時候已經沒有太大意見但是我們有考慮到說現行在登記制度上面是不是可以讓我們在第三段的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
5406.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
5426.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
修正成第一項由中央主管機關建置之申請登記平台可以借接直轄市縣市主管機關的社會住宅登記平台那為什麼要這樣做第一個這本來就是中央政府跟地方政府一起做那第二個呢我們就預防啊有人呢在多縣市在做登記的話呢會造成那個數據數據或者統計上面的膨脹的問題啊未來在申請上面會造成比較不公平的現象那這個部分呢那地方政府大概沒有太多反對的意見以上這是執行面的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
5436.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
5463.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
那個 劉部長表達就是一個執行技術層面直轄市政府應該也都是配合的那各黨團幹部針對劉部長補充說明大家有沒有請陳佩瑜署長請對我就是剛剛想要問這個問題因為如果沒有把地方政府的角色放進來其實就中央的執行向會有非常大的困難所以如果部長剛剛也已經說明也要拜託在野黨的委員支持 謝謝那條文那個部長對條文通過您 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
5466.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
5480.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
我剛有提到說要增加第三項的這個部分就是我剛有念我們現在手上拿的是 對不起部長打岔那個現在是內政部所提的修正建議條文請大家稍微看一下 請劉部長再請說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
5481.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
5504.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
謝謝 在第18條裡面 就是中央主管機關那個第一段跟第二段的部分大概就是跟原來那個牛許廷委員在1月27裡面提修正動議是一樣的第一段跟第二段是一樣的那第三段的部分就是把第一項由中央主管機關建置之申請登記平台得借接直轄市縣市主管機關之社會住宅登記平台 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
5504.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
5520.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
因為跟各位報告我們可能要借借的部分包括他的財稅或是戶籍資料那這個呢一定要地方政府一起協助才有可能完成 以上好 內政部所提的這個增加了一個第三項如果沒有意見我們就照內政部去修正主席不好意思 我記得昨天我也有在也做了一些說明齁因為就是讓大家去登記第一個你再參考其他國家做法你可以有個統一編號啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
5528.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
5532.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
就是他重複登記但是你會知道第二個本來需求就是一個不斷的變動有時候他們就這個首選沒有我次選我有因為他就是有需求這個處處他們也可以看得到提供者也可以看得到是哪些需要他也可以主動的來提供給他為什麼你們會擔心這是技術面問題為什麼會擔心重複登記呢報告委員有一些地方上的稅收不是國稅局這邊可以找得到的 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
5556.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
5582.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
有些是地方稅我剛有提到第一個我們在做住宅登記設宅登記的時候通常會有排付條款那有些部分的資料的話我們還是要地方政府我是寫德界階那這個部分我們會跟地方政府一起來溝通目前我所知道應該在執行面上沒有太大問題 以上陳老師我想內政部講的這個非常清楚了好不好 它是德界階嘛應該不會有什麼 劉喜廷委員有意見嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
5583.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
5587.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
好的那我們就照內政部建議條文修正通過好嗎好謝謝我們請宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
5592.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
5619.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
第18條中央主管機關應建置全國統一之申請登記平台供符合第25條第一項資格之人登記經申請人同意者並得自相關目的事業主管機關借接其家庭成員之護證財稅及社會福利個人資料主管機關依舊前項資料定期統計分析將其供給區域護書需求房型配比及所需公共設施作為將來擬定社會住宅新辦計劃之依據並於主管機關之網站公開之 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
5622.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
5638.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
第一項由中央主管機關建置之申請登記平台得借接直轄市縣市主管機關之社會住宅登記平台宣讀完畢好 謝謝啊 各位沒有意見我們就照內政部修正第18條通過我們現在進入第47條 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
5641.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
5652.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
也是牛許庭委員提出的修正動議建請主管機關定期收集分析公佈市場的形態及物理區分等等牛許庭委員請表達意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
5655.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
5673.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
這個一樣是這個是有關於這個租屋市場透明啦因為我們滿肯定內政部願意逐步的往前走啦但我是覺得這個速度要加快一點現在內政部提供的這個租屋市場相關的是以這個行政區的行情的分位數的方式來做呈現但是以人民直接期待的租屋市場透明應該是有點接近這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
5675.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
5699.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
一般買賣房屋的實價登錄的方式以逐個形態的方式來做處理所以我們要求在裡面再做細分按照不同的形態可能是這個雅房一類套房一類整層的一類大樓的一類公寓類等等要讓它有這個單憑租金的這樣子的一個數字來做分配這樣子我想在於租賃市場的透明上面會是比較完整的所以我們在47條的方面這個條文部分我予以堅持以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
5701.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
5723.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
對不起最後一句話我沒有聽清楚第47條部分你怎麼樣在我們的條文上我們是予以堅持的以上好的好的柯總召請剛才劉偉偉所談的單坪租金的問題這是做不到的這一點我們數沒有辦法同意每坪價格平均數 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
5725.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
5739.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
那是重大的可以請內政部說明一下好不好好請內政部劉部長請說明好謝謝院長有關於租屋市場的部分現在在市場上都是以租金的總價來判斷那很少以租金的單價也就是每坪多少錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
5740.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
5747.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
尤其現在有些租屋的型態在都會地區都是分租套雅房如果你現在去問房東跟房客說每一坪單價是多少第一個他們根本不曉得他們所租的房子的面積到底是幾坪 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
5755.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
5759.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
然後再來就是說到底單價是多少那如果我們硬性要求在每坪價格的數目只把它公布出來的時候第一個因為房東跟房客他們兩個都是民間人士他不是公務部門我們沒有強制他提供正確的資訊而且會有時間差譬如說他可能只租三個月不一定是租三年等等這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
5776.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
5779.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
如果硬性這樣規定的話會造成資訊上面的一個錯誤的統計而且不具參考性跟客觀性而且租屋市場恐怕會追漲所以我們會認為說那個劉委員他所提的修正案當然我們是 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
5793.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
5809.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
朝著越來越透明化比較好但是每坪的這個部分呢我覺得都不是很好的現象因為如果硬性這樣規定下去的話真的會造成天下大亂所有的人都不曉得他的租的這個市場到底坪數是多少坪這個會比較麻煩一點 以上好 張宏陸委員請發言 陳昭陸委員請準備好 謝謝院長其實啦 租市場透明大家都要追求啦可是啦齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
5821.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
5840.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
如果說用這個修法在商辦來講商辦來講我百分之百支持商辦應該可以這樣做得到可是如果以租屋因為他形態太多了有雅房有套房有什麼而且每一個大樓的公設比不一樣他簽約是用實際坪數還是包含公設 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
5842.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
5864.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
這個是沒有辦法做到美萍啦所以我是覺得我們可以去修但是不要到美萍啦因為確實實際上租屋的簽訂你有沒有包含公設有沒有什麼這個每個都不一樣所以這個實際上這個大家可能要考量一下好謝謝張宏錄委員陳昭志委員請發言柯總統請準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
5867.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
5885.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
好 謝謝主席這一條的精神主要就是說要讓租屋市場還有可以比較的價格基準現在只公布總價的分位數等於刻意拿掉面積的尺度當然政府跟民眾都沒有辦法判斷租金是否反映合理的居住品質跟政策分析也會失準那當然總價不等於價格單憑才是 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
5889.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
5895.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
市場的語言阿爾斯講得非常清楚你如果失去了面積的這個維度對面有沒有看出平數縮水品質下降的這個隱形租金的通膨如果政府也只看總價就是默許用更差的這個居住條件去掩蓋漲租的事實請記住中位數是個範圍中位數的意思就是說它是個中間那個數字中位數就是說有一半以上會比這個高一半以上可能會比這個低 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
5915.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
5918.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
大家都提到什麼設備條件不一樣有困難那設備差異不是理由分類統計本來就能處理你看國際租賃市場英國、美國、德國、法國他們都是用單位面積的租金搭配 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
5930.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
5936.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
分類分析要求這個來表達如果你說什麼事都完美這個做不出來那永遠就不能做了所以如果政府補貼的參考補貼的標準不參考每坪的價格的話你根本無法判斷你的補貼是否會被這個像譬如說高單價小坪數的這個吸收掉了那補貼效果就自然的就是外溢失控了所以簡單的說你不公佈單坪價政府永遠看不到 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
5957.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
5982.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
市場結構這件事情我們民眾黨是堅持的好謝謝好謝謝陳昭州委員我們接著請柯總召請院長剛才我民進黨黨團的意見以及民進黨的意見是站在一起的然後我們兩個民進黨的意見他們不一致我覺得這個只有留待表決就不必再論下去了 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
5984.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6012.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
劉部長您要再補充因為我們如果就院會處理的話您還要補充什麼意見嗎沒有 我們就保留送院會好不好劉部長你有沒有補充要不要補充是 我想我們還是一樣就是因為美萍的部分我們是要求誰提供這個數據就是我剛所說的房東跟房客那他提供出來以後我們站在公部門的立場無法去確認他提供的數據是真的還是假的 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6013.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6017.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
或者他會變動那所以我剛有提到說這樣子會造成這個資訊的不具參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6020.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6049.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
跟不具客觀性因為真的同樣一棟大樓裡面房子裡面有沒有加沙發有沒有加冷氣那個價錢都是完全不一樣的那現在要求我們提供美評只有一個單純的美評的部分的話那它的附設家具也好或是它其他的是中古屋等等這些就是它的參考價值真的相當低的狀況之下要求房客跟房東這樣做只是會擾亂現在的房屋房控的房客的租屋市場上面的一個價格以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6050.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6063.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
張國柱委員你要補充一句話我只補充一句話剛剛陳高州委員他講的也沒有錯但不要忘了他剛舉的地方都是時評制的國家跟我們有公設比的是完全不一樣的沒有公設 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6071.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6099.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
部長您擔心這個申報不實或不符合的話這件事本身是治理的原則 治理能力的問題啊就是說如果說資料不實或是不符這不應該是說不做這件事的一個不是 剛剛那個我們有跟委員報告過我們現在是朝著總價 租金總價然後開始慢慢推進因為房型不一樣然後剛剛有提到其他國家裡面並沒有把公社放到裡面去 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6099.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6117.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
跟我們台灣的不一樣我們其他的國家都會拿來參考的不是我們不願意做以上陳培委員妳要補充一句氣氛我知道陳昭子委員用心良苦但是我覺得剛剛部長已經反映了很多的現況包含如果我們大學生在租屋的時候有沒有含家具有沒有含床啊書桌這些都會影響到這個價格 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6118.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6142.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
那一旦我們把這些現實的狀況考慮進去等於我們今天最後如果最後還是要送表決我們是在逼內政部去做出一個不實的數字然後讓人民去參考這個不實的數字去租房子或相關的房東去把房子放到市場上租所以我認為他們就被迫公佈一個不真實的假的而且完全沒有意義的數字但是我要說 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6143.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6154.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
如果我們真的認為這件事情是重要的,還有沒有別的做法?是不是可以讓內政部再想一想,再跟在野黨的委員們討論我再說一次,是有意義,但是絕對不是用這個粗暴的方法,以上劉許廷委員,您要不要補充一點,聽了這麼多的意見,沒關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6166.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6181.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
報告主席 這個事情各有各的道理因為我認為任何一個立法的變革它都會經歷一定的陣痛期在執行上面當然會增加一定的負擔 這我們都了解的但是如果說每次都因為考量這些東西大家就裹足不前的話 那個前進的速度其實是很慢的 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
6181.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
6196.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
其實正常大家期待的租屋市場透明化是完全的實價登錄完全的透明但現在之所以有就講說我們先用中位數分位數的方式來做模糊化的處理其實也就是考慮到你要一步到位它其實是有困難的但我們希望把這個參照的標準弄得更清楚一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
6197.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
6220.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
當然剛剛有講有些是有虛憑的問題有一些有新舊的問題就是因為這樣所以才用分位數的方式來呈現嘛你這個條件比較好了它分位數為什麼那麼高你還是可以進到物件的內容裡面去做參酌那麼在這樣的參酌的過程中自己做這個租賃雙方做合理的判斷回歸市場的機制我想這個應該算是OK啦那難免會有一點震動但我覺得這個是值得努力的方向 以上好 劉部長請 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
6225.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
6251.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
報告院長跟各位委員我想有關於住宅的部分我們都是想要與時近近但是要審慎會比較好因為這裡面的租屋市場的人數真的非常的多所以我們剛剛有特別提到就劉委員希望說有每坪的價格平均數不是目前做不到而是做下去的時候反而造成市場上面的騷動所以我們很希望說把每坪單價的部分取消掉的話其他以租金的總價來判斷是目前市場上可以接受的 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
6252.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
6268.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
而且我們這個部分也是要跟各個地方政府來做商量否則我們這個很倉促的推出的話縣市地方政府在配合處理上面也會出現一些亂象那短期的亂象如果可以解決的話我們覺得沒有問題但這個短期目前看起來不是只有三個月六個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
6269.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
6275.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
再加上說目前這個寒假了可能很多大學生的租屋市場要求他們提供每坪單價是多少的話很多大學生或者是大學生的這個房東會出現比較多的困擾所以我們才會提到說是不是不要以每坪為主那其他這方面的整個租屋市場要透明讓資訊可以揭露更透明的狀況之下 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
6291.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
6301.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
我們要考量這些數據是具有參考性質有意義的那如果是沒有意義的話每一天都要做變動那其實跟我們的租屋市場大概是背道而馳以上我想今天聽了這麼多寶貴的發言大家都思想上可以再激盪一下那我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
6314.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
6332.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
包括我本人都很難剎那之間做出一個宣告那我建議我們還有寶貴的時間請內政部我跟各委員再協商一下我們今天開會就到此為止然後我們明天要繼續協商好不好那明天下午三點半我們繼續協商未完成的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
6337.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
6362.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
我們明天下午三點半一起我們這個時間就空在這個地方那謝謝各黨團幹部的力挺也謝謝內政部跟相關部會上連我們下午三點半我們繼續來進行討論這個寶貴的時間也請內政部跟各黨團來溝通一下我覺得這個影響太大租屋租戶太多數字太龐大好不好謝謝我們明天繼續協商現在散會 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
6385.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
6397.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
如果你要換一個模式的話,我也會去跟你們講我們去研究一下好,我們去研究一下好,我們去研究一下 |