| IVOD_ID |
17228 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17228 |
| 日期 |
2026-01-27 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
黨團協商-2026012204 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
立法院朝野黨團協商 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
黨團協商 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
15 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
內政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
立法院朝野黨團協商 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2026-01-27T13:01:13+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-01-27T14:52:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
01:50:47 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/eeffa975d6a1e3eac6d87d2e399e7c508fbe1f659ec68bdae692bdb9a1e4797739bea390017ece475ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-01-27T13:30:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院朝野黨團協商（事由：一、本院內政委員會報告併案審查委員郭昱晴等17人、委員黃健豪等16人、委員翁曉玲等16人、委員蘇巧慧等17人、委員李坤城等24人、委員馬文君等19人、委員王鴻薇等20人、委員陳素月等17人、委員陳菁徽等18人、委員王美惠等17人、委員邱鎮軍等19人、委員羅明才等16人、委員楊瓊瓔等21人、委員游顥等17人、委員葉元之等19人、委員蘇清泉等18人、委員許智傑等42人、委員何欣純等19人及委員張嘉郡等16人分別擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」、委員徐巧芯等20人擬具「住宅法第二十三條條文修正草案」、委員林岱樺等17人、委員羅智強等16人及委員楊曜等22人分別擬具「住宅法第二十五條條文修正草案」、委員賴士葆等17人及委員李彥秀等17人分別擬具「住宅法第十五條及第二十三條條文修正草案」、委員牛煦庭等16人擬具「住宅法第十條及第五十七條之一條文修正草案」、台灣民眾黨黨團、委員林思銘等21人、委員徐欣瑩等26人、委員高金素梅等27人、委員林倩綺等23人、委員許宇甄等20人、委員范雲等17人、委員林月琴等19人、委員蘇巧慧等17人及委員黃捷等19人分別擬具「住宅法部分條文修正草案」、委員牛煦庭等17人擬具「住宅法增訂第二十一條之一條文草案」、委員鄭天財SraKacaw等18人擬具「住宅法第二條條文修正草案」、委員吳沛憶等17人擬具「住宅法第二十二條及第二十三條條文修正草案」、委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「住宅法第四條、第十五條及第二十三條條文修正草案」、委員王育敏等17人擬具「住宅法第四條、第十九條及第二十條條文修正草案」、委員羅智強等16人擬具「住宅法第四十條及第四十三條條文修正草案」及委員盧縣一等16人擬具「住宅法第四條、第九條及第三十九條條文修正草案」案。二、委員張智倫等16人擬具「住宅法第四條及第十八條條文修正草案」案。三、委員黃健豪等22人擬具「住宅法第十八條條文修正草案」案。四、委員郭國文等18人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
13:01:13 - 14:52:00 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
477.097 |
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谢谢大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
563.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
576.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
感谢观看 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1173.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1174.172 |
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by bwd6 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1247.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1249.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
MING PAO CANADA MANGA |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1399.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1402.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
MING PAO CANADA MANGA |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1690.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1691.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
谢谢观看,下次见! |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
2041.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
2041.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
谢谢大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
2286.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
2304.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
我們現在開始開會各位黨團代表以及行政機關的代表大家午安那我們今天進行的黨團行政主題是我們內政委員會報告這個病案審查委員會顧議請等17人所提的這個住宅法第4條條文修正常案等43案 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
2306.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
2332.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
那前開市商案於114年12月29日審查完略那今決議須交由黨團協商那令今院會金服惡毒與相關提案並按協商這相關法案既由委員張志文等16人擬拒住宅法第4條及第18條條文修正草案委員黃建豪等22人擬拒住宅法第18條條文修正草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2333.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2352.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
委員過關等18人你去住宅法第4條條文修正草案及委員廖偉強等25人你去住宅法第4條條文修正草案等4案願安排本日之黨團協商會議進行協商那現在我們先介紹在場的委員及行政機關列席的代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2355.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2378.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
首先介紹我們的鍾嘉賓委員張鴻祿委員林佩祥委員劉許廷委員以及張志倫委員還有我們的陳昭之委員那我們今天大廠部會有內政部的政務次長董建宏董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2386.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2387.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
國土管理署代理署長朱慶倫 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2406.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2419.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
那我們在進入黨團選上前我們是否先請這個進步二讀之提案委員先做提案說明張志榮委員有沒有提案說明沒有了OK |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2421.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2439.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
那有關本日的協商會議我想為了要節省各位黨團代表的把握時間那我們並集中討論焦點並提升我們法案的協商效率以後那本期你具體的介入一下第一個本次協商主要討論條文委員會保留5個條文包括第4條第10條第18條第47條及增訂第57條之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2444.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2461.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
其餘經委員會決議維持現行條件不予修正不予增訂增訂及修正通過等條件均不再行討論請問各位委員代表有無異議52條列入討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2472.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2487.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
市長說明一下就是52條的部分可能要麻煩委員因為當初在討論的時候其實也有討論到就是說希望為原則所以我們希望說是不是52條在最後的部分加上為原則這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2488.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2515.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
在那個行政機關在處理的時候還有我們相關資源在運作的時候比較不會浪費因為修繕的過程本身就有一些那個差異性那有的可能比較多有的比較少那我們根據不同區域的狀況如果硬性規定2.5倍可能會有造成資源的浪費或者是重複申請等等一些不必要的那個浪費所以我們希望說是不是懇請貴院可以給予我們就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2516.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2521.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
修訂為原則這樣子這樣會比較好以上謝謝市長說明那增訂多52條那個有沒有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2540.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2551.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
我是覺得委員會討論完就討論完了啦那當然嘛 你講2.5倍你就多編預算就好了嘛你就多編包租的預算 這修正的目的本來就是要增加包租的補助嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2552.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2570.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
那增加包租的補助當然一開始會講說會不會排擠到貸款等等那我也跟工會有談過也就是說我們下個會期的時候我們開個公聽會在執行面你就確定你是偵編包租的預算讓他在這個地方加大投入就好啦這樣不會背離這個法案修正的方向也不會影響實際的執行嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2571.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2594.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
那你今天改個維園哲,有休跟沒休一樣,維園哲你每天維園哲就好這個我覺得在來黨是很難接受,以上那我再跟委員報告,維園哲的重點我們當然是說我們是衡量整個的在整個包租貸款過程裡面因為我們是要補助這些房東他們願意拿出來的人,他們做一些房屋的修繕 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2595.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2610.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
可是整個住宅法的精神基本上我們還是希望補助那個租戶為主那如果我們補貼房東過多其實會造成對住宅法精神的一個矛盾那另外一方面也是在於說很多時候我們希望是說錢要花在刀口上 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2610.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2639.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
所以如果說我們在以定定為原則的狀況之下我們會做橫頻的狀態該補助的我們就補助那避免有些人他為了因為就有這個補助所以他就是東修一點西丟一點反而是浪費我們整體資源的合理的分配那我們是希望說橫頻這樣的狀況那我們當然是按照委員的意見就是說我們還是儘量補助到2.5倍但是在整個橫著狀況下你比方說你今年修了明年他又同樣東西再拿來修這個其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2640.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2656.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
會造成很多資源上的重複的浪費所以我們是希望說懇請大院能夠考量這樣的一個狀況那我們來修訂這樣子一個精神符合也符合我們住宅法真正要保護租客跟整體的社會弱勢的一個精神以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2660.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2679.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
謝謝我想違原則就是有時候會少一點有時候多一點表示說那這麼的意思說未來也有可能情況必要的時候也會多於2.5倍囉因為這樣才是違原則的意思啦那如果說不超以2.5倍為上限不超過2.5倍會比2.5倍少就剛剛你委員所擔心的那就是違上限 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2679.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2705.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
立法的時候寫違原則跟違上限意義不一樣若寫是違原則就是有的案件會比這個2.5倍多有的可能不用到2.5倍少一點也無妨但是2.5倍違上限的話就是只會比2.5倍少不會比2.5倍多但是如果不寫就是2.5倍那的確在執行上會很剛性不能給需要多一點的人不能多給不需要那麼多的也不能少給 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2706.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2729.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
我是覺得可以考慮一下行政機關他們在執行上的需求以上那這一條 因為這個關於這個 主要是我們上一次都已經討論過了而且大家都簽 都簽了是 張委員我說一下啦齁其實我們上一次都討論過啦 他們這樣講我提出一個實際執行面 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2733.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2755.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
因為這個是我們是直接給只算包租的沒有算貸款的是包租的那你包租的你每年給他固定一個數額我覺得我們的例子原理是這樣這大家都支持這不改但為原則一個好處是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2757.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2785.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
我們修繕的東西啊不是固定的一個金額我們現在固定金額是固定的喔是固定的喔那我如果是要修繕一個紗窗跟修繕什麼的你這樣子啊這個金額他們那個行政到時候再處理的時候會很麻煩會很麻煩你到時候會變成大家都是要固定那個金額 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2788.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2805.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
這個會有講白一點到時候會不會有弊端出現那你如果修繕一個紗窗跟什麼它可能加起來可能會有的會超出一點點那有的可能是差個少了一點點如果你都訂得很死 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2806.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2832.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
行政機關包括地方政府在做的時候擔心會有這個問題出現不是說要把那個錢往下壓不是這個意思委員則只是讓他們好處理我覺得這個有道理好謝謝洪路委員的補充說明那有沒有其他委員還有沒有其他意見民眾黨這邊有沒有什麼意見民眾黨這邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2844.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2858.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
我已經同歸就是2.5倍啊對啊,就是2.5倍啊對啊對啊對啊,現在只有假包裹要像這樣很可惜啊,你用2.5倍對啊,我們現在也是2.5倍啊你這邊還是2.5倍啊對啊,那你居然是不得少,他是少幾個字啊,他確實有少幾個字 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2874.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2896.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
我們只是說委員 因為就像我剛講的你有可能差個幾千塊或什麼的 你就沒有彈性 而且你到時候會這樣你的收據會不好看你的收據會不好看啦 一定會在座位裡有辦法做法你懂我的意思嗎?欸 那個什麼阿謙先生休息 阿謙老師 阿謙老師阿謙老師阿謙老師阿謙老師阿謙老師阿謙老師阿謙老師阿謙老師阿謙老師阿謙老師阿謙老師阿謙老師阿謙老師阿謙老師阿謙老師阿謙老師阿謙老師阿謙老師阿謙老師阿謙老師阿謙老師阿謙老師阿謙老師阿謙老師阿謙老師阿謙老師阿謙老師阿謙老師阿謙老師阿謙老師阿謙老師阿謙老師阿謙老師阿謙老師阿謙老師阿 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2906.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2933.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
因為維園者的好處就是說有時候多有時候少你這樣子我們今天修的目的就是包括一定要多嘛不能少但是我要講的是說你在執行的時候因為這個執行機關是包括地方政府有些時候地方政府你要讓公務員好做事情他如果出現一些你現在的問題就是你現在的問題就是都好做什麼我們之前也都相信可以好做啊比如說社會住宅大家相信你13公里那你居然沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2933.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2949.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
那你要我們怎麼辦?你知道我的意思嗎?你知道我的意思嗎?我認為這樣比較麻煩就是多三個字,我是覺得我覺得不好啦我們那天修正完的條件為什麼長這樣? |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2972.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2977.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
應該是不得掃魚吧你上次修正的條文長什麼樣? |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2990.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2994.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
那我倒覺得如果你要調整的話就是把負責少於降聚 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
3008.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
3024.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
放四個字跟三個字對啊 我就覺得好像少了什麼為什麼會滑掉為什麼會滑掉什麼時候 什麼時候滑掉的啊那時候大家講好了啊 沒用這樣很奇怪如果要修就是把不得的少一句是 好那就是把不得的少一句那一張再給我看一下剛剛那一張 拜託一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
3041.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
3048.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
這裡啊,他把不得少餘的我愛你,你更愛我愛你,愛你,愛你愛你愛你愛你愛你愛你愛你愛你 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
3071.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
3083.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
主席我比較想問一個關鍵的案例因為我想維園者就是說我們基本上在執行,因為不是只有中央在執行,地方也在執行我們在執行這個過程裡面你除非能夠行動一個維園者的案例,又不能 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
3093.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
3103.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
對社會弱勢者他的如果你委員者社會弱勢者他可以補貼的部分就會增加那如果是已經2.5倍其實對社會弱勢者來講他會有一些壓力 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
3121.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
3125.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
委員者的這樣的方式在處理上面會比較妥善因為立法的旨意本來就是說提供一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
3141.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
3163.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
而且我也跟委員報告說這一條的關鍵其實是他就是在補助房東嘛那你在補助房東的過程裡面其實我們真正的精神是希望能夠補助那個租戶對嘛 你之所以會設計政策去補助房東就是因為要釋出空污嘛你現在社會出來不幹 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
3164.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
3181.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
你不加大一點包租的比例那你應該怎麼交代呢對不對其實這個反面已經有其他的方式我們會那個包括說那個我們增加之前也大家有公司說增加那個比例那個部分都是對那個都是會那個讓 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
3182.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
3210.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
整個業者還有整體的社會對於增加包租貸款的部分尤其是包租的部分增加的量一定會衝上去這個業者他們也都有信心可以做這件事情那以現在目前的住宅狀況來講其實很多持有者他也很願意把房子交給包租貸款業者來做那所以我們現在是希望說在法律上面如果可以有一個違原則的這樣狀況大家在執行上的彈性會比較大 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
3210.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
3221.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
那對於地方政府也都有好處啦我是覺得這這樣奇怪第一個與體育不合啦第二個就是這個你現在這樣說好像沒有辦法順滑要不然這樣子我們還是先因為民眾黨應該先 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
3223.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
3236.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
先針對本來想要那幾條先訪問一下然後你們想一下辦法 我想的嘛你如果要今天這一條要能夠大家穩之修正打通就是在不得少於一個你所謂的維持人我們找一個好 我們先討論其他的好 謝謝 謝謝委員謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
3249.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
3277.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
我想那個 住宅法這個也是社會非常關注的我們希望今天能夠大家盡量能夠有共識的那如果真的在統一上來是有一些沒辦法達成共識的情況我們就交由來原委來處理那我們先今天就照原本這個我們排定的第四條這邊開始秩序那之後回來我們再討論我們的52條好不好那現在在第四條那各位沒有意義我們就照上述的宣告來進行主條討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
3281.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
3286.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
接下來我們有修正,他們要發,現場要發喔好,OKOK |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
3317.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
3333.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
好 我們現在就手上拿到資料我們就我們上一次會議保留調整糾正第四條這邊開始那第四條部分那個內政部會不會要先說明一下這張照片結束了 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
3336.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
3364.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
主席 各位委員那內政部就整個之前相關的再修正的條文那麼各位委員提出的是希望說能夠在婚姻宅提供20%出租那這部分本部還是想要建請大院同意就是說我們就還是修為至少10%出租給婚姻宅因為婚姻宅的處理它其實涉及到的是整體的社會當下的不同縣市的需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
3364.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3384.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
那我們一定都規定20%這個對地方政府來講他在執行上他有些地方他可能就沒有辦法達到20%那會造成他在整體處理上會有些困擾比方說像在連江連江的社會住宅他基本上他在興建的時候其實是希望能夠留住去那邊的公務員跟一些老師 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3385.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3403.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
如果我們規定說20%要給婚姻宅就會造成就是說願意前往去這些比較偏鄉或偏遠地區的年輕公務員或者是一些老師他們在一些狀況上可能就比較困擾因為他們要想要找到房子的時候社會住宅其實是一個提供他們很不錯的機會 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3404.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3428.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
可是我們修憲限制了那這樣他們在申請的時候可能要等更多的時間因為我們程序上要走先一波完之後再第二波這個都會影響整個老師們的聘任或者是公務員的聘任這樣子對於地方的服務可能會造成一些影響所以我們是希望說能夠修訂至少10%那至少10%其實因為主管機關包括中央跟地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3428.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3453.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
所以地方政府他如果覺得有需要他也可以在他自己的相關的施行的過程裡面他就認定說我其實我可能有30、40的需求我自己的婚姻宅我自己就是訂到30、40因為每個地區的狀況不一樣反正大台北地區可能對這個部分的需求度就比較高或者桃園地區對這個需求度比較高他就可以拉高這個比例那有些地方縣市比方說像雲林 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3454.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3469.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
像嘉義或者是台東他可能對這部分的需求就沒有那麼高相對來他比較希望能夠吸引到年輕剛剛畢業的這些年輕的老師或者是公務同仁到地方上來服務或者是一些有創意的年輕人 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3470.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3489.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
他們到地方上去從事地方創生的作業那麼我們這些社會住宅的提供其實對他們是有幫助的可是如果我們直接限定說有20%是要給這些就是婚姻宅那再加上40%的社會弱勢可能對這些年輕人他們在申請上程序會比較麻煩 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3490.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3514.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
那也會造成他們去過去的意願可能會有一些阻礙所以我們是建議說用10%的方式那相關的地方政府他可以依據他自己的狀況來決定可以來增加以上是我們簡單的說明那說明欄這邊其實有一個彈性的說法也跟請各位委員參考那在我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3515.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3538.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
說明欄的第二項裡面我們有特別提到就是說令主管機關市轄區內會議宅佔全國戶數比例滾動調整也就是說他有需求他其實可以往上提升這個我們還是要依各地的狀況來做一些改變所以我們會建請大院可以同意我們這樣子的一個修正以上謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3540.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3545.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
好謝謝董事長在第四條上面的修正後的說明那其他我也沒見 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3549.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3574.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
這你講說有些部分地方可能會導致沒有住滿的狀況所以我們其實在委員會的時候就已經提了修正動議嘛但申請時婚育家庭數量未達保留比例者剩餘部分不在此限嘛也就是你就試回本來按照多少比例該給弱勢多少比例該給一般不就好了嗎今天我們要修這個法條不就是希望結婚的人或者是婚育的家庭可以在居住的權益上可以被保障嗎那你今天這個東西你修的 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3575.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3593.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
這個隔靴搔癢或者是說至少10%一時一時一時這個我們又不是要修給社會大眾修好看的我們當然希望他可以帶來改變嘛具體的告訴大家說國家鼓勵你結婚鼓勵你生育嘛所以要解決你的居住問題啊所以我都還覺得20%有點少最早我要提醒一下最早黃建豪委員提案超過一半 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3594.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3622.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
那我就覺得在委員會討論的過程中大家互相讓步到20%而且還開了一個說如果沒有達到比例也就是你提到可能會申請未到的比例的問題我就已經開放了這樣你可以再回到那個池子裡面去處理那我是覺得你現在還要再把它降到10%更不合理嘛然後加上你自己內政部對外做的廣告都15%然後你說修法10%那不是笑話一則嗎對不對所以這點我們是堅持的好不好謝謝那今天有一件黃國昌議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3625.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3649.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
你如果現在內政部所提出來的所謂建議修正條文就是把現況他們統計出來的10%入法的話根本沒有辦法達到婚育財它基本上面我們在政策上面引導所要達成的政策目的嘛你沒有辦法達到這樣的政策目的把現況的方式入法那不是笑話一則嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3652.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3675.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
那我們修住宅法裡面針對婚姻宅的部分要給他最低樓地板的保障以現在目前台灣的人口結構我們先讓政策引導的方向20%我同意剛剛劉許廷委員講的寫20%都很客氣了就20%的部分我們不可能再讓步讓到10%這是不可能的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3681.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3704.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
好 謝謝黃國昌委員我看一下內政部他的說法是至少10%啦那他的說明欄裡面第三項他是有寫另主管機關因事轄區內婚育家戶佔全國家戶比率滾動調整他寫這一句就是沒有上限的意思吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3705.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3724.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
這個我請問一下內政部你們這個就是10%是最低但每一個縣市政府或是中央政府要蓋的這個社會宅有這一具他在需要的地方他是不受限他是不是也可以到30% 50%你們的意思是這樣吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3731.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3753.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
謝謝委員的吹詢也謝謝剛才兩位委員所提出的說明那原則上我們的就是說至少10%就是本來就是保障我們有婚姻家庭需求的人他有這樣的需求那滾動檢討的況況就是真的是他要回應在場的當地的一個婚姻狀況我們希望能夠先照顧到當地的婚姻狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3754.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3775.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
讓這些婚姻家庭所以他本來就可以因為當地的婚姻狀況來往上提升這是沒有問題的那這樣子的提升也有助於說整個婚姻宅的合理的分配以及我們加速我們設宅的分配那這樣子都對雙方都有好處所以我們是說至少不代表說只有到10%而是會有更多的可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3777.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3794.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
不是 次長你沒有回答我的問題你後面那個另主管機關英式轄區內婚姻家戶佔全國家戶比率滾動調整你這個滾動調整你們調整就是也可以超過20%也可以超過40% 50%是不是這個意思是 是嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3798.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3825.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
所以我本來我也覺得說不管定幾%都不夠啦但如果你給他我們今天如果說只定20%那可能以後全台灣各縣市就是用20%但如果他們現在是至少10然後說明欄裡面這些比如說台北市或我們新北他需要更多的我們可以調到30%甚至更多一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3827.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3847.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
我覺得這樣子反而有彈性是不是大家思考一下法條裡面是很清楚你要把它解釋成說至少10%比至少20%還要好這種解釋方式真的是我已經不曉得該怎麼形容了 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3850.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3865.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
至少10%可以往上然後至少20%不能往上只會停留在20%這是哪門子的解釋啊我完全聽不懂啊至少10%的婚姻財跟至少20%的婚姻財哪一個保障比較多這還需要這還需要多加認數嗎啊你們當初自己行政院發出來的政策公告 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3880.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3904.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
上面就寫20%啊 宣傳上面敢寫20%在法條裡面說至少10%這是在玩什麼兩面手法大列宣很會做真的要入法保障就變成不敢那你說要寄望於未來的滾動檢討我老實講啦我期待不是很高啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3906.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3919.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
賴清德說要興建的社會住宅不就滾動減跑從13萬戶變成4萬戶嗎是更好還是更不好至少20%我再說一次台灣民眾黨黨團堅持 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3925.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3947.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
謝謝我們黃建浩議員好謝謝趙偉那各位在場討論的好朋友之前在內政委員會討論過這件事情我想今天還在討論在這邊僵局討論到底叫10%20%第一個剛剛國昌委員提到過去你們政策宣導的時候一開始的版本你們就講20%所以我本來我是比較激進的大家都知道我那時候提的是50% |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3950.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3966.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
50%目的是什麼?因為我們要解決少子化當初提婚育宅那個概念是我一上任就提了那個時候我們的目的是希望面對少子化問題我們鼓勵大家如果你真的有機會結婚生小孩的話讓政府保障你保障你住個6年12年嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3967.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3982.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
那你就比較不會後顧之憂嘛因為現在大家就是說我就是生我沒有地方買不起房子或是沒有辦法買都會去的房子所以我上班上學通勤很麻煩所以很多人乾脆就不婚不生了那所以我們今天希望說這個東西推出來之後是能夠讓這些年輕的 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3985.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
4013.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
男女或父母親他們有機會有意願去生這個有機會生小孩然後保障他們這至少6年或到12年這區間他們不用受到這個要搬家之苦或他們至少有安身立命的地方所以當初這個婚姻宅那時候的概念是提50%那後來當溝通大協調之後你們推出的版本是20%那我覺得OK如果大家目前政策導向要走這方向也可以接受為什麼可以接受第一個從台中市這個地區為例台中市自己的婚姻宅 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
4014.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
4037.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
6歲以下左右現階段大概14%左右就現階段超過10%了所以如果今天我們做一個立委如果你的版本是10%我還跟你同意的話那個保障跟沒保障是一樣的因為現在就已經14了所以我們當然希望說更鼓勵有更多的這樣子的民眾他能夠去住到這個公宅裡面社會住宅裡面所以我們才希望說至少20%這也是尊重你們一開始的版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
4038.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
4061.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
那大家有這個共識你們先提出來然後我們接受了那後來現在又到這邊想說你們剩10%那我們這個討論的就白搭那我就回去堅持50%就好了所以我就覺得真的啦我覺得20%這個該不會有什麼爭議才對大家都委員們包含你們一開始的辦法也OK那就回到20%就好啦這條根本不用討論沒想到又討論這麼久之前在這裡委員討論然後這邊又討論半個小時還在這裡所以我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
4065.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
4067.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
拜託內政部一下我覺得20%不是一個很困難的事情謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
4070.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
4094.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
市長跟各位委員報告市長10% 20%的關鍵其實是說這個10%是說保障最基礎的保障而保障的意涵就在於說他多一支籤也就是說很多年輕人他來申請社宅的時候其實他是按照他的身份別的狀況他的各自都有抽籤的機會所以會議宅就是等於他多一支籤的機會多去抽所以我們會有剛才就像剛才 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
4095.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
4116.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
黃委員提到就是說我其實你保障10%他其實會有14%那我們就是希望說很多的機會多給更多不同的人那我們在設宅住宅的時候他的多樣性多元性能夠出現那事實上至少10%我也談過我們的那個立法說明裡面也談到就至少10%就表示各個地方的政府他可以做過彈性的討論會不會是依據他的整體的 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
4120.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
4137.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
婚育狀況跟人口狀況來做一些調整那它剛才可以往上調所以至少10%其實是保障大家多抽籤的機會那這個抽籤的機會會讓整個婚育宅在使用上面也比較符合各地方政府它的一些特色跟需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
4137.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
4159.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
那因為你一定硬帶硬線一旦規定20%它會造成就是說有一些排氣的效果因為它就是一支籤那一支籤如果沒有人去抽那支籤那個位置就空掉了這個部分是希望說那個委員們可以協助我們在整體的跑量上面其實本來就不是只有10%是至少10%會比那個多因為在 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
4160.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
4175.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
過程裡面本來就是可以允許地方政府有很多彈性的調整包括我們中央也會在我們的中央社宅在不同的地點他當然也有不同的需求狀況那我們就可以做一些彈性的調整依據在地的婚姻狀況還有人口結構來做一些調整謝謝董事長回應我想我們討論的一段還是沒有什麼公司我們先繼續待會回來再繼續討論現在下一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
4189.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
4207.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
第十條主席我建議一下因為第十條第四十七條跟五十幾五十七之一最後一條這三條是講同一個概念都是租屋市場透明化那我是覺得不用跌床架屋啦那看起來以上次討論的結果大家比較希望四十七條討論出一個結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
4208.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
4225.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
所以我建議這是三條一包討論如果47條有一個明確的結果前兩條其實是可以不用修的好不好這樣我們速度會快一點可以嗎我們徵詢一下大家的意見我們上次就是這樣討論這樣就好他們就照這個方式的先47條我們直接討論47條的部分47條內政部這邊有一些建議修正事來說明一下好 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
4237.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
4256.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
那民生部這邊的建議就是依據剛才之前委員們所提的有關於這個相關的資料的分析那我們在那個第二款裡面加入了那些不同物件形態屋齡等等價格的那個分析然後再來我們也說明在前項第二款的住宅資訊第九項第一款 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
4257.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
4284.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
第一項第三款是成豬住宅者主管機關應優先辦理我們這也把它加入那麼這樣子的一個分析其實就是一方面我們加大我們的租金透明化我們利用已有的租金補貼的資料做定期公布然後我們也深化整個的公布的內容跟範圍所以我們希望說能夠透過這樣子也達到委員們跟社會的需求就是我們希望能夠逐步逐步的讓租屋的資訊能夠更公開透明以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
4287.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
4315.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
好 謝謝市長建議說明喔 那我們這也有修正動議喔 可能要 可能要唸一下 怎麼樣好 接著第47條 未引導住宅市場健全發展主管機關應定期蒐集分析及公佈下列住宅資訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
4317.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
4343.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
1.买卖住宅市场之供给需求用及交易价格2.租赁住宅市场依其形态及屋龄区分之每平租金价格资讯并以中位数及分位数之方式呈现其中属第9条第1项第3款及第19条第1项第6款之成租住宅者应优先办理3.经济或社会弱势者之居住需求住宅补贴政策成效4.居住品质状况住宅环境风险及居住满意度 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
4344.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
4367.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
五 其他必要之住宅资讯 钱箱住宅资讯之搜集各级政府机关购金融住宅投资生产交易及使用等相关产业工会及团体应配合提供相关统计资讯资料搜集运用及发布应遵守相关法令之规定住宅相关资讯之搜集管理及奖励办法由中央主管机关定之提案人委员刘许婷等宣布完毕 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
4378.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
4380.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
那在第47條的那個47條的這個修正條問各黨黨員意見稿議啊 詐說運動議通過先讓我說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4405.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4429.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
高委員 地政司報告一下就是這次委員修正動議裡面的每坪租金的這個部分那我們先說明一下其實我們現在目前有做到的就是因為目前現在的租補總共為了要讓這個申請租金補貼的民眾可以比較快的去領到這個補貼 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4430.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4444.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
所以其實我們租金補貼所設計他必須要去填的關於房屋資訊的這個欄位比較簡單他只要去勾選分租套雅房或者是他是獨立的套房或者是整層的住家就可以了 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4445.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4473.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
那如果说我们这边要去分析这里所谓的每平的这个租金的话那我们担心因为租金其实会影响到民众第一个是每平租金它跟我们现在的市场的状况其实不一样民众在租房子的时候他是先看租金的总价他当然会去寻找他适合的区位然后他用他的租金的总价去思考自己的这个 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4473.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4503.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
这个成租的这个能力他的负担能力那所以他的用租金单价来在这个住宅市场上面他不够直观对民众来讲第一个他不够直观再来就是我们现在的这个资料里面因为有大概有四成是属于分租套雅房扣掉这四成之后我们担心我们因为我们现在其实已经分析到了包括乡镇市区那如果把这个分分租套雅房的这个资讯再把它扣除掉的话 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4503.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4529.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
那它的樣本數會不夠它其實可參考性對於民眾來講它的可參考價值會變低但是我們後來我們現在的建議條文其實有比較有多的一個彈性就是不排除未來如果假設我們的樣本數會有樣本的內容充足的話我們可以去做到 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4531.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4551.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
不同物件的一個租金美瓶租金的一個分析那再來就是因為主要還有我們擔心到的就是後面可能會有定毛的效果那也跟我們現在民眾的這個習慣不太一樣所以我們建議是把這個美瓶的這個文字把它刪除掉那就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4554.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4580.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
以我們現在建議修正條文用不同形態不同物件形態 物領等價格資訊那其實包含了未來的不同的統計方式的可能 以上好 謝謝認證部的說明這個認證部說明 其他黨團這邊有沒有意見提案這邊有沒有意見要不要修正一些法文好 陳教授會議員是 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4583.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4607.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
這一條我們主要的目的是要讓租屋市場它有可比較的可以比較的價格基準那你現在只有公布總價這個分位數你等於刻意避開那個面積尺度讓政府跟民眾都沒有辦法判斷租金是否反映合理的一個居住品質所以你的政策分析就會失準所以事實上這個大家現在已經開始大家都有這個共識這個總價不等於價格 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4610.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4626.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
單憑才是市場的重要語言,你沒有面積這個維度,那就無法看出平素縮水、品質下降這些隱形的租金的通膨那如果政府也是只看總價,就是默許你使用更差的居住條件來掩蓋租金漲價的一個事實我想這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4632.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4646.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
我們不公佈單憑這樣 政府看不到市場結構我想還是要往前進步啦不是說民眾習慣 一個做法 這一條有它的目的啦我們希望就是往前走 美萍的這個 對你們有什麼困難嗎對政府做電視有什麼困難嗎這個跟剛剛說什麼快速 這個效率應該不相關吧這有困難嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4657.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4676.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
這個跟委員不好意思跟委員報告第一個我們那個每坪其實就需要就是說最重要的是房客他要去填這個資料那我們一般人不太容易去辨識我的空間居住空間的所謂的每坪坪數大小所以在填寫的時候資料的過程本身就是一個困擾 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4677.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4704.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
然後第二個就是說在資料的分析裡面我們剛才談到的地毛效果因為每一個租戶他的房型他的租金的價格其實是跟他的整個居住的屋窄屋齡的屋礦的狀況還有房東提供的狀況其實不一樣所以我們把它畫到平的時候他可能會產生的是同一棟大樓裡面的不同的租屋的狀況其實他可能會有一些落差那這會產生地毛效果就是為什麼我 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4705.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4729.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
我租的比別人便宜那我是不是把它往上提升所以我們當初希望做一個統計的方式是目前各大學也都覺得社會大眾對於我們這樣子每年定期公布兩次的統計分析大家覺得非常實用是因為說這個的確符合目前大家社會的一個共識就是用這樣子的一個總價的方式大家比較知道說我在租房子的時候的range在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4730.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4753.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
好那你落到平這個可能我們要再花一點時間去設計我們的系統但是同時我還是要跟各位報告就是說一般的人真的你租房子的型態他不是只是看單價他還有看他的屋齡的狀況他房東提供的一些條件等等之類的那我們如果直接用一個很直觀的方式說每平多少因為他跟買賣房子不一樣買賣房子是一個決斷的過程 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4755.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4782.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
那租房子他可能會因為很多不同時程的慣況比方說我的有些人他因為工作的關係他可能只需要短暫租三個月那三個月他可能會用一個比較高的價格去租因為他可能他有比較迫切的需求那這些資料在我們整個統計上面就會產生一些偏異那這些偏異值就會造成說我們在整體討論上面的時候會有一些困境會造成大家在整個租金市場上的透明度反而產生一些扭曲 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4782.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4811.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
那我想委員們的利益都是希望說我們讓租金市場越來越透明越來越清楚明確大家有一個明確的參考值這樣子是一個比較好的方式所以我們是建議說我們以我們的提案的方式就是那個就是在那個劉委員跟民進黨所凝聚的修正文裡面是不是就把那個美萍的這個部分如果可以把它刪除那我們來 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4812.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4815.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
應該是可以作為我們未來後續來作業的方式以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4826.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4844.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
這個核心就還是要進到每坪單價當然這個法案修正通過之後當然會給內政部造成一些負擔跟困擾這個是難免的事你任何一個制度的改變都難免碰到這樣的事嘛但是也不見得這樣就會扭曲市場比如說你以現在這個購屋市場的實價登錄的機制來看他也不會說因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4845.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4861.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
大樓的比如說大樓一坪是40萬公寓就會變40萬不是嘛你反而是可以在單價上看到落差那你可以進去去做研究那這因為是公寓這個屋齡比較高那個是新的層屋會比較高的那個本來就要交給市場來做判斷所以我是覺得提供其實是提供越多資訊越好 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4862.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4885.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
你可以在這個基礎上面再增加一些更多的資訊我覺得大家都不會反對但我是覺得這個我覺得美萍租金的價格透明應該算是蠻蠻基礎而且蠻關鍵的一步啦好 如果我們這一步跨不出去那大家永遠都只是在泛泛的範圍裡面沒有辦法突破我是覺得比較可惜啦所以這一條我們還是比較堅持啦跟修正動議的部分比較堅持 謝謝好 其他會員有沒有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4892.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4914.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
往前走大家都要不過我個人是覺得如果說這邊以中位數跟分位數方式呈現其實我覺得如果要寫到這麼細你反而會呈現不出真正的市場的這個租屋的行情的價格因為你同一個區塊同一棟大樓裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4918.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4939.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
你的房屋的條件都不一樣有的有整修過再出租有的沒有整修有沒有這個反而會有顯現不出來那個事實我覺得這一點大家要考量一定要寫到這樣嗎每個租屋的條件不一樣這個因為我們這邊寫得很清楚是住宅市場 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4941.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4954.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
如果是商辦你這樣子寫商辦可以很清楚的可以這樣做出來可是我們現在寫的是住宅市場這一點大家我覺得要思考一下要想清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4961.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4977.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
那個我是不是可以拜託委員會這邊各位委員就是如果可以的話是不是用讓我們用附帶決議的方式我們會邀集各個學者專家我們再來討論說怎麼樣子能夠讓他進一步 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4979.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
5003.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
做相關的租金市場的單價的一個資訊的必要性怎麼樣去處理那在六個月內向內政委會做報告這樣子好 謝謝市長補充說明其他委員對我那邊不想這樣說法黃國昌委也要發言沒有 在出房子的時候問幾件事情嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
5004.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
5032.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
那個不是只有問租多少錢啊我一個月花4萬塊租房子下一個問題馬上碰到的就是那你4萬塊租到多大的房子啊這個在市場上本來就是這個樣子啊租屋市場透明化如果連這件事情都做不到的話那是在透明什麼我完全聽不懂啊之前在討論的時候這個就是真實的核心嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
5034.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
5060.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
那我們提出來這樣子的條文到底是我們的修正條文對於所謂租屋市場的透明化比較有幫助還是如同內政部所講的有美萍的價格這件事情反而會產生混淆社會上面的租屋族大家心裡都有一把尺大家都會做判斷我第一次聽到說資訊揭露的越少 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
5061.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
5078.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
然後反而資訊越健全真的是大開我的眼界總會討論的內容會變成這個樣子我租房子第一個問多少錢第二個問租多大這不是最基本的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
5081.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
5109.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
台灣民眾黨還是一樣我們支持今天所提出來的修正動議今天台灣委員我補充下一個觀點給內政部參考一下其實我們這個修正動議裡面提的是以中位數及分位數方式呈現它跟買賣房子實際上登錄到小數點那個不太一樣這是一個Range這也是一個Range按照你們的說法這到底也是一個Range而已我並沒有說要公告 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
5110.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
5139.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
到每坪多少錢這件事情我是公告這個區位每坪大概多少錢中位數大概在多少然後大家市場上自己去選擇只是這樣子而已我並沒有把如果先把中位數拿掉那反而會更透明那是你們要的嘛那你們要這樣我也沒有反對我們已經覺得說已經退已經至少給大家一個空間說我們是提供空間提供一個範圍的數字出來讓大家能夠有參考的依據那當然剩下你剛提到說我住這個房子 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
5140.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
5168.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
房東有沒有付稅有的沒有的有沒有付水電費有沒有節約是公寓還是樓梯還是還是電梯的幾年屋那個當然租房子自己會來看嘛那我你這個房東你這個房子的房型你一坪的租金假設是兩千塊跟隔壁那棟是兩千塊那我自己會比較啊這棟是舊的那棟是新的那我就找新的嘛所以今天只是說提供個中文書的區間給大家判斷而已那我不太知道內政到底擔心的你們的擔心的點 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
5169.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
5198.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
因為你當天在我們聽起來不太跟有沒有修法並不會有衝突就即便這個法修過了市場上找租房子的人他還是需要有個依據你現在就算上那些租屋網站他一樣會提供區域的實價租金的實價給大家看那一樣會造成市場上的競爭所以我覺得這個只是提供一個官方提供一個綜合因素的參考詞給所想租房子的人知道這個地方價格大概在多少就這樣子而已我覺得並沒有你們想到這麼痛苦才對以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
5204.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
5224.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
我們第二次再補充說明一下其實我們知道這個委員提案的用心但是事實上因為目前大家去看整個591的所有平台或者是各租屋平台在PO所謂的租屋廣告的時候基本上都不會有單價 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
5225.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
5241.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
那因為我們台灣豬市場比較特殊就是我們的型態非常的多那目前你如果是整層的或者是獨立套房的那你說這個部分可能因為有地級的資料面積我們可以去抓可是大部分我們剛剛講豬補的部分有幾乎四成以上是分豬套牙房 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
5241.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
5261.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
那分桌套房最大的問題就在於它的面積像我們這間房間裡面如果分成三間這其中的某一間這個房間的面積要怎麼算那因為單價它牽涉的問題就是數學問題就是你要把金額除以面積嘛這才會出現單價但是面積一定有因為企業上一定有面積但是單價的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
5261.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
5274.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
這個就變得你很難我一個分租亞房他寫3坪跟寫5坪雖然可能只差了2坪但是租金因為只有6000塊你看那個單價會從2000變1500會變異非常的大那這個時候如果你又是用統計的方式的時候這個統計出來的數值其實反而會讓市場變得很混淆如果當你的樣本數在這個行政區又不夠多的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
5284.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
5311.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
然後碰到面積又不準的時候你產生的這個所謂的公佈政府由政府公佈的這個單價就會變成是民眾會覺得或者是房東看到這個數字怎麼會覺得跟我們想像中的不一樣因為我們的面積沒辦法確確的掌握這個是我們目前面臨上實務上最大的困難對 以上補充說明好 謝謝政府補充我們請林委員發言這我們修正中也有寫啦租賃住宅市場依其形態及物理區分之美憑租金價格資訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
5313.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
5342.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
也就是說這當然對你們來講是有點辛苦但是你就是把那個系統做好做詳細來嘛也就是你剛剛有講到說套雅房的算法跟整整的算法可能會造成平均單價的落差但你就把類別區分開不就好了嗎我們先修這條目的就是要越來越透明嘛好啦好啦我今天我今天的目標我就是要租個套房我今天是大學生在附近念書我要租個雅房跟我是家庭課我在這裡上班我可能一時半刻走不開我要一個一層這本來就是不同的取向嘛那不同的取向就應該在不同的型態裡面去做市場的比較嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
5343.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
5369.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
那我也覺得你修正完現在大家去找租屋也不是只看政府的平台嘛他一樣有比如說591等等其他平台可以做參考所以你只是多一個參驗架構而已那只要剛剛你擔心的事情是因為形態因為形態太多元那你就把形態區分開來做不同的中位數我覺得這樣也是好事啊比如說在這個區域比如說以桃園市貴山區雅房是多少錢套房的行情是多少錢一層的行情是多少錢越詳細越好啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
5370.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
5383.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
而且越詳細效果就會越好如果可以做到這樣我反而會幫你們鼓掌對不對所以我是覺得還是要照這個方向去修法 以上好 謝謝在經過這段討論之後想還是還沒有取得共識我們繼續 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
5386.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
5409.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
這樣子第十第十八第十第十八第十七十四七五七之一他的編案你討論主席啊我直接建議啦我們這個租屋市場透明就是四十七啦所以十跟五十七之一就不予修正啦這個部分這兩條我就不堅持了好不好但四十七條我們要堅持OK好接下來可以討論十八條好十八條 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
5414.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
5436.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
市長那個第18條的部分跟各位委員報告那本部提的修正動議是在修正的條文是希望說我們在第二項主管機關依據住宅計畫及財務計畫新辦社會住宅時應建置社會住宅登記平台那前項由中央主管機關建置這社會登記平台 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
5436.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
5453.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
德介接直轄市縣市主管之社會住宅登記平台也就是說我們希望先確立就是說這個社會住宅的計畫已經確定了那在這樣社會住宅已經確定之後包括地方跟中央的所有的社會住宅我們透過一個平台的方式登記之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
5454.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5475.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
這個需求是比較明確的那透過這樣明確的需求彼此之間來做一個聯繫包括說屋齡等等那這樣的登記的時候我們會比較明確看到整個的住宅需求那部長也非常感謝那各位委員對於這個登記平台這樣子的一個支持那我們也希望說透過這樣子一個登記平台來讓大家能夠明確比較可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5476.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5490.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
確認說我的居住的環境的狀況或者屋型等等那需求在哪裡所以我們是希望說有確定的計畫及財務計畫在新辦涉財的時候我們來做這個平台的登記 以上謝謝好謝謝市長說明第18條部分委員會意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5505.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5530.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
這個之前在委員會其實也討論過就是說它是建置前還是建置後的問題我們之所以要求要建置統一的住宅登記平台是為了要邁向社宅輪候制做準備既然要邁向輪候制你本來就是要有一個隨時都在收集需求的這樣子一個平台去收集大的這個東西然後再做後續的一些詳細的處理你當然沒有辦法空中樓格一步到位就馬上做出輪候制但你至少可以先把平台做出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5531.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5550.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
但現在內政部這邊希望提出來的修正是說我按照這個計畫蓋好已經興辦好的住宅我再來設計這一個案子的登記平台那我覺得這跟你現在在做的其實是比較沒有差異的嘛我們在做的是一個事前的總整的平台嘛這個總整的平台做滾動制的時候等等你未來才有機會邁向輪候制啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5551.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5570.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
所以我們是講說應建制全國統一申請資登記平台讓所有符合條件的人都可以來登記然後並且要借接這個政府相關的戶政財稅跟社福資料這些都是為了輪候制在做準備然後你也有了這樣子的一個收集之後你來去判斷說我哪些地方有社會住宅的優先需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5571.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5597.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
這樣子其實我覺得比較精準要不然就會出現說我因為有一塊空地我就蓋了社宅但是我蓋了社宅我又不確定剛剛講昏獄宅搞不好租不出去或什麼的這不是很奇怪嗎未來應該是先從登記平台收集大的方向跟資料然後在針對需求高的地方你優先下資源去處理這樣你會提升政策的效率所以我們的這個條文看起來很像但我覺得差異是在事前還是事後那我們主張是在事前還是全國統一的登記平台以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5599.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5615.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
好內政部這邊說明各位委員午安那內政部這邊再說明一下就是說剛才委員有提示到就是說希望這個需求平台是在新建之前就來設置那其實內政部這邊所提出來的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5617.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5632.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
文字就是在新建社會住宅之前它的設置的一個時間大概就是我計畫完成之後在新建之前我就應該要來設置這個社會住宅的一個登記平台 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5633.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5660.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
這個跟剛才委員所指教的這個部分是相同的就是在事前就要來建立不是蓋了之後才來建立而且我們也透過就是中央其實跟委員所提案的條文就是中央還是會建立一個統一的一個平台而且透過一個借鑒的一個方式也可以把各縣市政府的一個登記平台都放在 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5661.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5687.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
这个整个大平台上面所以这个部分就是第一点这个是在事前就要来登记第二个就是它也可以透过一个一个统一的一个平台那透过中央建立的平台来跟各个直辖市县市政府的平台来借接也可以达到同样知道全国各地所需要的社会住宅的需求那以上谢谢 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5692.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5707.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
現在住宅法要求事前評估需求總量、區位、戶數等的立法的意旨但現行的方法你們是用回收率只有22.4%的這種租補文件來推估 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5711.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5737.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
基本上這個做法就沒有符合就已經是違法那這一條的核心不是說方便申請這條核心是要讓政府能夠掌握真實的需求所以第一個你用22點多的這個回收率這個不能叫做政策依據而且你調查對象僅限於這個租股的申請者你大量的排除潛在的一個涉宅需求族群這不是方法問題是結構性整個失真那 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5739.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5766.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
我希望政策要看到的東西是包括願望清單需求本來就有流動性平台可以更新可以比對可以排除不符資格的反而一次比一次的抽樣的問卷是更可以去做一些校正那技術問題因為台北市已經有實際運作了我想在技術的疑慮應該是已經被可以克服掉了不可能做不到因為現在MyData什麼實名認證資格單位的跨案通用都已經上線了 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5768.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5792.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
那各地方如果讓他們各自做只會讓資料很碎裂如果你不要中央統一的這個建制需求資料會將會分散在各個縣市沒有辦法形成整個全國社會住宅的一個需求的圖像whole picture所以中央政策委員只能就是忙的飛嘛就不知道這個沒有辦法掌握完全的真相所以簡單說你如果不建平台你政府永遠不知道社區需求到底 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5794.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5803.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
社宅到底要盖给谁我们强调是这一点不是什么方便而是你要掌握所有的政策资源跟需求的真正的需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5809.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5833.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
市長要再補充還是回應委員剛才的指教就是說我們直接同意要蓋要有建立平台就是如同委員所提到我們就是需要有那個整體的資訊所以我們就是中央來建置跟地方一起共同來建置那建置這個平台彼此之間就可以有聯繫跟勾結這都沒有問題那我們現在最主要是說我們在社宅計畫以及財務計畫確認之後我們來做那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5836.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5860.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
相關資料的勾結也是確認就是說我們的整個住宅計畫財務計畫的合理性跟我們整個的需求量在哪裡那因為現在社宅如果我們用採用之前的採用那個相關的所謂的候補制他會面臨一個問題就是說大家當然希望候補在比較熱門的地區那這些熱門地區他可能現階段沒有辦法找到地方或什麼他可能會造成 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5861.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5885.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
地方上面的一些資訊上的混淆所以我們是希望說用漸進式的方式我們先把我們在整個目前已經在興建的確定要興辦的社宅我們透過這樣子的一個資訊平台的建置中央跟地方一起共同來合作把所有的需求量做一個確認這是我們的主要的設計方向 謝謝謝謝次長說明那這部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5892.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5900.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
國民人民共產黨這邊那個第18條的部分就針對今天劉委員所提出來的修正動議 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5902.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5931.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
那按照我們之前所擬去的條文提出來的修正動議原則上面我們是支持但是呢前面在好不容易建立一個全國統一的申請登記平台那這個申請登記平台我們覺得應該要有雙方面的效果跟目的那除了繞主管機關針對他們將來擬定社會新建住宅計畫的依據以外 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5932.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5949.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
那在資訊公開的要求上我們是希望他們做成的那個報告的內容也要可以公開讓社會大眾能夠清楚的知道所以針對有關於牛委員所提出來的這個修正動議 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5950.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5969.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
他說作為將來擬定他那個修正動議第一項的部分我們競表同意第二項的部分他那個統計分析包括了供給的區位、戶數的需求、房型的配備及所需的公共設施作為將來擬定社會住宅新辦之依據然後並議 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5973.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5979.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
並公開之 我們希望把本來那個公開的精神 把它放到他的修正動議裡面的內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
6000.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
6003.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
內政部這邊照修正這樣有沒有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
6011.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
6039.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
內政部這邊再做一些補充那跟委員報告其實建立這個全國性的登記平台或者是說直轄市縣市政府建立的這個平台他本來資訊就是都是公開的都是公開的他只要大家上網去查詢就可以查詢到相關的資料我想這也是建立這樣的一個平台大家所要認同的 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
6040.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
6056.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
要求要做到這樣的一個方式所以這個是不是把後面加上公開其實我們是建議是不是因為這本來就是一個公開的資訊是不是一定還要再加入這個公開是不是還請斟酌 謝謝你OK嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
6067.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
6070.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
既然他已經不反對公開了我就把他寫得很明確啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
6088.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
6103.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
我還是跟各位委員報告就是說我們希望是說登記平台是依據我們相關的住宅計劃跟財務計劃有確定明確在新辦設宅的時候他在做平台的登記這樣子會比較清楚跟完整 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
6104.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
6133.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
因為如果說我們就是說做一個輪候制的這樣子登記的時候在現階段我們就會變成是說資料不斷的更新那資料不斷更新過程裡面很多需求的狀況就會變成是他沒有辦法明確化因為有的人他可能北中南他全部都去登記那北中南他全部都去登記的時候到底這個需求是真實是真實需求還是假需求我們沒有辦法有明確的分析跟確認因為在統計上我們也都知道說大家可能真的 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
6133.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
6159.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
在各種需求狀況之下他的工作地點他的生活狀況什麼等等他都有可能都有他對他未來的期望的想像一個人在20歲的時候他會去登記說我因為我在高雄讀書所以我希望高雄有社宅可是我家住在台中所以我台中也可能需要有社宅因為我的未來是不確定的可是這些東西一旦進入平台的時候我們在進行分析的時候可能就會造成我們對需求量的推估就會產生錯誤 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
6160.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
6189.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
那我們透過資料的勾結那勾結過程裡面你說因為他重複登記我把它刪除請問我要刪除哪一邊是高雄的還是台中的這樣子其實都會造成我們在資料分析上面可能就沒有辦法有一個比較科學上面的論證所以我們還是希望說委員可以支持我們所提出的這樣的一個修正案這樣的修正案會讓大家在整個執行上面也比較清楚也比較符合科學上面的一個依據跟想像 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
6189.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
6218.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
事實上謝謝好我們就這個劉許廷文還有劉許廷等委員的這個修正動議在條文最後一段就是並於主管機關之網站公開之那請起來吧那個前委員紅衛有沒有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
6222.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
6245.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
就不會給我們修正通告了就太麻煩了他的修正通告後面 修正條件後面 這些啦將作為將來你訂設住宅新辦計畫是依據並於主管機關這網站公開之修正這樣子內政部的修正通告不採納就對了 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
6249.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
6270.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
我再一次跟各位委員報告就是說我們都尊重各位委員的修正提案但是我們現在如果這樣子的輪候制的資料的登記它會造成另外一個最大的困境是我們如果公開讓大家都知道這些資料在市場上它就會讓大家做成錯誤的判斷以為這個地方有需求因為一個人他重複登記好幾個地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
6270.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
6289.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
我們不能夠否認他可能在他20歲的時候登記他可能在輪候制所以他可能在30歲或25歲或30歲的時候他可能真的有需要可是這個需要是一個未來的期望值那這個期望值他到底落點在哪裡我們其實也沒辦法知道所以當我把這些資料全部都算進去的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
6290.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
6311.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
那麼我每一年公布其實每一年的變異每一年就會造成資料的判斷的錯誤所以我們希望說有一個比較精準的判斷的方式比較科學的判斷的方式所以我們是先用我們目前已經有好的核電的計劃那這些核電計劃本來就在就準備要興建也確定要興建那大家來看這個地方的需求狀況那我們來做透過這樣需求狀況的登記我們也來做 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
6314.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
6336.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
房型或屋型的一些修正这样子比较符合大家的居住的需求我们是希望说委员可以因为部长也很感谢各位委员提出这样一个登记平台的需求因为委员也部长也很支持这样的一个登记平台只是他希望能够更务实的来回应这个社会的需求也不要造成假性需求让大家有一个产生一个误解以上谢谢 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
6338.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
6342.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
好謝謝次長再次詳細的說明那我想各黨人這邊還有沒有期待見 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
6349.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
6372.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
透過這個做法謝謝主席那個全國統一登記平台我想有幾個重點就是說大家可以思考一下內政部也要好好參考一下第一個你可以取得唯一的登記編號這是很重要的原因在其他國家無論你透過什麼管道在申請社會住宅你第一步可以就有一個這樣的號碼即使在某些會加密系統會有自己平台的程序你也需要現在全國平台拿到號碼這個是一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
6374.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
6380.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
你可以 你剛剛說要刪哪邊刪哪邊你可以它有一個這個你可以去處理的啦第二個就是有個年資的累積啦社會住宅因為你排隊的時間統計方法非常長那你排隊的年資其實在你成功登錄的那一天開始可以計算那即使你現在想要去的這個城市並沒有來源但是也能夠確保你的年資就是說已經開始起跳那如果說你要到別的地方去年資也可以帶著走 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
6400.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
6427.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
那所有的房東也都可以看到這個資訊一旦你在平台登記那麼全國所有的社會住宅都可能在後台看到你的需求這意味著說你並不需要一家一家去做這個投遞如果某個片城市突然間有空白而且符合你的條件他們也可以主動聯繫你我們就是要這樣前瞻性就是要做這樣的做法不是屈就於這個現況所以你剛剛講的市長講的那些都可以克服別的國家都有太多這樣的經驗了 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
6428.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
6431.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
我們回到最前面的第4條條文第4條有沒有統一這樣子有沒有公式沒有了 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
6458.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
6470.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
二十八?二十八啦齁今天是這樣 要不然這條不允許 那要保留 好不好好 那就保留喔就這樣全部 沒有喔五十七條 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
6473.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
6476.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
那個保留了以後 為了後面的順序順暢看是不是就麻煩召委今天也通知院長一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
6498.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6508.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
因為那個院長好像這一兩天他要排線上嘛然後把這個閉路範圍當中因為這是我們的優先法案我們希望星期五把他給三度通過好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6528.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6528.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
谢谢 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6535.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6537.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
所以他們就是典型的民眾黨的操作 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6568.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6572.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
對啊對啊好啊好啊好啊我來跟他先走就好我來跟他所以明天要電腦結帳嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6581.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6582.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
他明天有結賬我要去弄牙齒 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6611.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6611.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
陳總召 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6636.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6653.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
我們宣讀協商的結論第一 保留條文第四條 第十八條 第四十七條 第五十二條第二 第十條不予修正維持現行條文第三 第五十七條之一不予增訂第四 取與均照審查會審查結果通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6667.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6668.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
好 我們今天就先到此結束 謝謝大家 |