| IVOD_ID |
17223 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17223 |
| 日期 |
2026-01-26 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
公聽會-2026012089 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
審查「行政院函送中央選舉委員會委員提名名單，游盈隆為委員並為主任委員，胡博硯為委員並為副主任委員，黃文玲、李禮仲、蘇嘉宏、蘇子喬及陳宗義均為委員，請同意案。」公聽會 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
公聽會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
15 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
內政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
立法院第11屆第4會期內政、司法及法制兩委員會公聽會（事由：審查「行政院函送中央選舉委員會委員提名名單，游盈隆為委員並為主任委員，胡博硯為委員並為副主任委員，黃文玲、李禮仲、蘇嘉宏、蘇子喬及陳宗義均為委員，請同意案。」公聽會） |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2026-01-26T08:31:02+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-01-26T10:24:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
01:52:58 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/eeffa975d6a1e3ea94b21ee1cfbfcecf2042dc10dca82677e692bdb9a1e47977bdd4560505a188fd5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-01-26T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期內政、司法及法制兩委員會公聽會（事由：審查「行政院函送中央選舉委員會委員提名名單，游盈隆為委員並為主任委員，胡博硯為委員並為副主任委員，黃文玲、李禮仲、蘇嘉宏、蘇子喬及陳宗義均為委員，請同意案。」公聽會） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:31:02 - 10:24:00 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
1926.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].end |
1937.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
各位貴賓早安歡迎大家來參加本次的共產委修正說明立法院議員會的 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1938.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1966.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
在1個第4份第4會議第16個會議報告交付內政司法及法治兩個委員會審查行政院含送中央選舉委員會委員提名名單由英榮為委員並為主任委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1968.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1995.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
胡博宴委委員並為副主任委員黃文玲李中 蘇嘉鴻 蘇紫橋及陳忠義軍委委員恰當議案因處依據立法院職權行使法 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1997.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
2019.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
第29條規定基盤今天會講聽會各位專家 學者都是學員 居家 相信一定可以為本院委員提供非常寶貴的意見我們可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
2023.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
2043.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
史記錄 今天各位的個件依供審查本院參考第一修正教授專家 學者 出席委員 政府機關代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
2047.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
2053.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
第一位是整理大學法學系教授兼主任吳主任第二位是東武大學政治學系的謝教授 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
2071.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
2077.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
洪範化學事務所主席律師洪律師學者專家依出時間到的順序發言每一個發言的時間為百分之百發言的事情有 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
2096.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
2099.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
我們的定費倒數發言的時間結束前一分鐘會累一箱發言的時間結束會累兩箱第一輪發言結束後如果需要補充說明的時候我們再進行第二輪的發言本議委員會發言請到主席待會定期 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
2125.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
2127.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
在兩位專家發言後 我們安排一位委員發言每位委員發言的時間有五分鐘現在請專家發言我們按照剛出席的簽約順序 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2149.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2156.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
請專家來發言第一位請真理大學吳主任來發言還有各位在座專家學員大家好這個因為我 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2174.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2189.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
這個之前來立法院光天會大部分都是針對法案提供意見那這個人事的同意案基本上這個我是好像印象中是第一次吧所以沒有什麼經驗啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2191.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2205.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
那我先講一下這個也是對立法院這邊抱怨一下就是說這個時間非常首先這一次的中選會的委員team已經延宕了然後再來就是說我上禮拜介紹通知然後我手邊所有的資料包括今天我本來以為今天我坐在桌上應該會有厚厚一疊可能是什麼問卷的意見調查等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2221.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2239.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
結果我來看這個是本來我的開會通知然後這個是今天也放在桌子上面的有今天一樣之前寄給我的中選會這些被提名人的一些基本資料然後頂多多了一份 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2241.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2261.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
我上禮拜很趕的時間做出來的point我本來還要有更多結果沒有所以我覺得就是說我先講一下就是說這種容詞人事同意權提名時間已經延宕了沒有錯但是既然要來找我們學者專家來這邊提供意見那基本上這個資料實在是我覺得實在是很欠缺 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2264.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2273.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
我也不知道 立法院這邊如果手邊的資料會不會比我們更多如果只是這樣的話 我覺得這種的人是同意 我覺得真的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2274.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2294.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
非常的不妥適 這個時間實在是太緊促了好 那我趕快 因為時間只有8分鐘我光抱怨的話 我就花了2分鐘所以我先講一下 就是說因為我是第一次來參與人事同意權的提供意見我就想一下 中選會的委員該有什麼樣的特質好 那我目前我看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2302.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2307.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
在講這個大概只有中學院主持法第三條第四項這有列的那他的這個法條裡面講說他的這個要具有法證相關學士經驗及公正人士那我覺得就法證相關學士至少我 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2321.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2332.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
我看了這一本相關的這個七個被提名人他們在法政方面的學養或者是實務經驗都非常的豐富也非常的優秀然後我看了這一本以後這個我甚至還要把它貼標籤我可能是當老師當習慣了然後期末剛結束我好像在改題偶遲差沒有把分數打上去而已學養非常 而且我才發現到竟然我有點懂得藏文這個讓我眼睛為之一亮 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2350.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2373.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
那所以呢這個學養的部分我覺得大概沒有什麼問題啦法政專業這個大概七個人我覺得都沒有問題但現在問題來了那我怎麼知道他會有獨立或者是中立性呢那我也不知道該提供什麼意見所以我也問了AI然後AI我試了幾個AI大概因為AI是人類養出來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2374.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2379.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
所以我們人類怎麼想我覺得這個AI現在也慢慢有一點怎麼講有一點像人類一樣那一種比較自視性 官方性的發言他就列了這幾個我整理一下大概都是這樣然後結果這個其中他雖然列的都一樣跟這個法療沒有什麼太大差別所以我覺得AI慢慢也會養成非常的世故也會見什麼人你問他什麼他就給你自私的回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2403.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2420.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
不過他有提到獨立跟中立性是最重要最重要的關鍵那現在問題是我怎麼在這個有限的資料裡面我怎麼知道這七個被庭們在未來他們在執行那個中選會相關的事務的時候能夠保持獨立公正性呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2421.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2448.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
所以在這種情況有限我也不知道該怎麼提意見不過這七個委員沒有辦法很仔細的去了解到這些七個被提名他們如何保持所謂的獨立或中立性但是至少看一下他們所提七個被提名他們所提的這個類似有點像學生報告的東西我就看 只看兩個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2449.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2473.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
自我期許 包括還有重大政策因為也有可能 尤其是這個自我期許包括雖然有點大部分我看七個也都有一點自視化宣示性的那種理念的宣達不過我至少可以看他對重大政策議題的看法到底他怎麼看待多多少少看他怎麼去看待他被提名這件事 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2473.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2497.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
所以我大概就把七個被提名人的這兩個部分就是第八跟第九項第八是自我期許與報復第九是推動重大議題一個一個把它做檢視來看一下他到底該看待這個問題的時候怎麼想法那第一位就是主委的被提名人 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2499.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2523.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
這個可能是這個地位被提名人可能是也跟我一樣教授當久了所以在這個部分都是原則性的宣示比較像是那種課堂上那種民主理論的講師所以這個部分我是覺得跟我學生在教報告一樣都比較比較宣示性我看不出來有什麼特別的地方沒有亮點 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2524.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2553.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
然後再來就是對於這個推斷重大政策那目前大家比較關心的這個選舉罷免這個部分大概就是兩個主題不在己投票跟公投綁大選那但是呢他有提到這兩個但是呢他他到底要怎麼對這兩個的看法事實上他也沒有提出具體的意見所以如果以我的學生來講我會覺得這個就是一個比較現實性的用語我看不出來說他對於這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2554.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2563.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
這個這麼重大的議題他到底他的想法是什麼那當然我也可以講就一個要被提名是一個主委來講他的 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2565.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2582.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
他這個身份特殊所以他也可能這樣講然後第二位是有關這個副主委的這個部分那他倒是有提到他就定位在輔佐的角色那他也提到就是說這個決策過程他要說要降低決策跟法律風險這個部分倒是蠻符合什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2584.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2609.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
他這個副主委的身份只是說對中大政策基本上也沒有太多琢磨那再來呢後面幾位結果我沒有講到我講到第三位就已經快結束了所以我簡單的講一下那後面這幾位呢基本上我發現到都有比前面兩位前面兩位一直在推動中大政策我不曉得是不是因為他們是 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2610.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2628.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
委員的關係 所以呢基本上他們好像比較勇於去提出這個公投綁大選跟不在籍投票的問題比方說幾乎都三四五 幾乎都有那有關這個不在籍投票 當然今天下午好像有一堂公聽會就是提這個我是覺得這個不在籍 因為關係到我們這個選舉權 憲法保保障的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2634.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2642.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
這個有關選舉前的這個實踐所以我覺得至少就後面四位相對來講比前面兩位在針對這個問題有比較多的這個琢磨然後至於說公投綁大選這個就稍微少一點好 那因為我的時間也到了所以我稍微提一下我是覺得就是說我還是建議因為我手邊也有那個台灣民眾黨提供給我的這個問卷 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2664.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2667.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
總共有10個提問這個我看一下這個就問得比較細了但是這個問得比較細那現在問題就是說為什麼只有一個黨提出而且呢我不知道立法院這邊是不是未來在針對這類問題的時候能夠呢由立法院這邊每一個人都發問卷不管是 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2683.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2692.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
像中選會提名或者是大法官的提名我覺得類似的提名都一樣這種準司法機關我覺得都應該提問而且要提的像民政黨這些仔細當然你說這些問題會不會實問虛答那我覺得不管至少你可以問那他答的方式我們可以由他被提名人答的對這個問題他答的具不具體可以看出他的一個很重要的態度所以我最後的結語是說這個優秀的學經理不必然保證公正性 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2713.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2738.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
豐富的實務經驗也不必然保證中立性那很有可能這些被提名不管是同意或不同意都是政治最後都是政治妥協的結果所以我最後的結論還是希望這七個提名如果你們立法院同意的話那一定要保持獨立客觀性這個是我今天最後對這個七位被提名的一個期許也是期待我想不僅是我應該是全民的期許跟期待謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2740.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2764.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
謝謝 我們感謝我們的主任在這裡要補充一個主任剛才說有接到民眾黨的問卷他在裡面三黨都有可能是不是沒有剛才另外兩黨沒有傳給你 也沒有提給你 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2765.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2771.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
是否要補貼,原則上三檔都有做問卷好,沒關係,我先來補充一下因為我怕大家都希望如果問題退出來讓這個委員更好地去了解這個臨時案,感謝你們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2791.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2798.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
把這個時間來,我們這裡第二位,我們的謝教授不要緊,時間慢一點,讓你在這裡說不要緊,抱歉,抱歉 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2817.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2830.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
伊翁的那個公聽會都是主席先請行政部門先對這個案 表示一些意見我們這裡進一步跟他請教今天一開始就一開始來向這裡發表 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2835.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2842.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
因為這個問題 我在這幾個星期有跟我們的單位問過因為想說今天要怎麼去工廠處理的時候因為整間來賓 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2857.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2875.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
他們總省會沒有報告 最主要今天的工廠會是要聽他們專家的意見這樣 跟你有這些意見的時候我們會記載 叫他們要更詳細 更了解不像你說的 這樣也不對啦要他們提出 跟你來問 會比較詳細還有可以的臨時案 更好 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2887.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2908.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
因為這是由行政部門先提出候選人所以行政部門的立場是什麼他們應該先表示一點高見是不是可以做一個變更因為你說的問題會在社會裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2914.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2939.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
領一座會做參考感謝你佈局的意見謝謝各位類企的官員各位協助專家各位媒體朋友今天這個重要的人事案那我個人的淺見可以分幾點那第一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2941.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2961.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
就是執政黨在提名的過程 剛剛吳教授已經提到有點延宕了那執政黨提出 行政部門提出之後我看了媒體充分的瞭解立法院的執政黨團它表示的一些態度不清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2962.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2988.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
那這就形成到底執政黨的態度是什麼對這些候選的態度是什麼有點是批把半遮面了所以讓人看得 讓全國民眾看得摩薩薩那這一點當然待會如果有機會也請行政部門做一點解釋的所以才讓這一次被提名的主委他講說他不計悔遇 不辭辛勞滿悲壯的 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2991.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
3013.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
那我們想看看整體行政部門執政跟立法部門他們的看法這是第一點第二點我們這些案子我們看看國外的一個案例他山之死可以公錯我們回顧美國他的獨立機關的重要的我把它列了11項這11項當中有8項大概8項的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
3019.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
3038.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
大概成立在1913年所謂美國進步主義時期跟所謂的戰後冷戰國際對壘的時期跟所謂的國際環保跟所謂的這些經典政治出現弊端的時候歷史也證明歷史也證明給美國社會一個有為的總統 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
3041.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
3067.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
他不攬權 不擴權他設立獨立機關最後歷史給他的是美名所以魏有信 羅師傅在歷史上都得到美名我的意思是說不管行政部門 立法部門對這種獨立機關提完名 審查完 通過與否之後就不應該再干預了這是他山之死我們再看下一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
3069.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
3089.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
所以這整個怎麼樣讓整個進步的法律觀念 憲政觀念能夠也在我們本土生根第三個我們從這一波的一個被提名的自尊跟期許剛剛也提到 剛剛學者也提到 我們希望選舉 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
3091.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
3105.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
他是一個選舉機關他是一個慘婆但是我們回顧過去有許多選委會的人他本身好像也扮演什麼好像也扮演球賽的球員一樣那這樣的狀況跟我們的整個社會的期許是有距離的所以怎麼樣把你們的承諾能夠未來一段時間能夠真正能夠非常落實的 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
3121.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
3137.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
我另外也看到了這一次的七位不管是主委跟委員他們比較多的是強調正面的表述一些比較選舉當中過去我們有將近80年的選舉從1949年到現在有將近80年的這80年的選舉的一些弊病選舉的爭議甚至謠言當中的會選問題中選會的委員有沒有提出一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
3151.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
3170.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
纠正的看法或者未来改善的看法我想选民眼睛都在看当然我们也希望常委委员把关所以我也举一个例子日本殖民台湾51年左右他做了七次国事调查 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
3172.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3198.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
他最近也在整理過去他所謂的半民主其實是有點是假自治的提名的州 縣 莊一些諮詢委員他都有辦法把它整理出來各位你去查查看現在我們民國39年到大概民國70年左右的地方選舉的資料在所有網站上找不到這是我們行政部門應該未來要努力的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3201.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3221.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
另外啊我一直覺得柏拉圖的話語可以提供給我們政治人物做參考人的靈魂裡面有三種重要的元素理性氣魄跟慾望怎麼樣讓特別是這種獨立委員會怎麼樣讓理性能夠駕馭慾望跟氣魄讓這一頭馬車這個你看這個馬車的兩匹馬有白馬有黑馬人性有許多弱點這個弱點怎麼樣讓 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3230.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3250.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
在選委會的過程當中能夠公正執法讓這個選舉的產婆生出一個漂亮的嬰兒而不是語言常常講到的在幾個爛蘋果當中挑一個比較不爛的如果我們的政治是這樣的話那多少年我們在炎帝踏步 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3253.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3279.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
我另外举几个两个那个所谓的过去中选会的委员的例子来提供给大家相互共勉第一个是我在就学的时候东吴大学的校长端木凯在大陆实际就是赫赫有名的大律师甚至他担任国家总动员会议的秘书长老讲很多事情都要跟他从法律面来请教到台湾来之后他不做官 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3280.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3295.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
但是1980年面臨了要解嚴前夕蔣經國請他當委員不是主委請他當中選會的委員我找了一張歷史照片各位可以看看蔣經國跟端木凱講話的那個行為態度 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3298.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3315.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
那真的是大家非常的平等大家非常尊重專家的那個角度裡面而不是過去的官員好像要賣最高所謂的乘風的命我想我們的政治文化應該朝這一步去發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3319.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3347.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
那這是他獨立超然的行使他的委員的我另外比較詳細還有包括他的那個任用的聘書包括他表現很好之後行政院長給他的一個獎狀另外一位是中選會的當過主委的黃思成我在這裡要特別強調他的是他不擋不派公私分明然後他是倫理道德公平正義作為他一生從政的一個真言 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3348.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3373.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
他在治理彰化縣的時候可以用道德來制憲就會可以往前查媒體上的報導道德如果沒有在一個政治人物的身上看到的話那under table的東西有多少是可能見不得人的最後我要提到的是說近兩年來憲政紛爭非常的多國政在原地踏步 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3374.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3399.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
那今天好不容易行政院有徵詢各個黨派提出了按照選罷法裡面的應該按政黨比例的原則來提名候選人這一點做到朝野好像開始要在大院裡面要邁開一個和平的橄欖枝所以我們希望這一屆的從政人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3400.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3415.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
能夠未來能夠不忘初心的身在宮門好修行用他們的專業公正超能立場完美的行使職權做出復國利民的一個所謂的選務工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3417.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3442.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
真的我們國家有太多事情要做的但是這些選舉負面消息從選完那一天一直到下一棒可能還有四年每天你看媒體相當多的報紙充斥的選舉新聞但是我們國家還沒有其他重大的事情需要解決嗎有這麼重要要每天搞選舉嗎這是我們當前的政治文化請教各位 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3445.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3474.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
謝謝 我們感謝謝教授我們現在邁政委員主席各位先進 各位親愛的家人 大家好 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3475.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3494.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
我今天代表台灣民眾黨 歡迎大家在百忙之中抽空安排來立法院歷齡指導我要向大家報告 中央選舉委員會是我國最高選務單位 是守護民主制度的關鍵 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3496.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3507.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
憲政機關他的存在不是為任何政黨服務而是對憲法與人民負責台灣民眾黨的立場 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3508.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3526.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
一向很清楚依法依職權嚴格審查但不為反對而反對我們要的是制度正常運作而不是政治對立消耗國家依中選會 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3529.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3543.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
中央選舉委員會的組織法行政院本應於委員任期滿前三個月完全提名確保選務機關不中斷 不失能 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3544.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3559.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
然而實際上提名長期延宕導致立法院無法依法行使審查權這不是程序殺資而是對制度的不負責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3559.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3579.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
民主制度不能靠臨時補救更不能靠政治算計撐場面更重要的是中選會的核心價值在於政治立場與制度信任過去社會之所以產生疑慮不是因為立場不同而是因為分布關鍵政策決策讓人民感受到參政權的 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3592.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3606.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
基礎性限速制度標準卻欺詐一致性的可預期性對人民而言是嚴重的警訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3608.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3634.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
面對新的一屆委員提名名單台灣民眾黨不看誰推薦只問一句進入中選會後能不能放棄政黨只效忠憲法與人民中選會委員不是政治角色而是制度的守門人必須在高度的政治張力下 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3635.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3661.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
乃能做出公平可收檢驗的裁員因此我們將以三個原則嚴格把關是否真正的理解真實實踐中選會的獨立定位是否堅守人民參政選不讓程序成為沒收人民的工具 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3662.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3686.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
是否支持制度化的治理建立清楚穩定可預期的選務標準民主不是靠口號維持而是靠制度落實台灣民眾黨會為事任人選負責任的支持但對不符合中立與專業的期待 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3689.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3719.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
也會勇敢說不這不是對抗而是人民期待已久國家正常需要監督與領導謝謝主席與各位專家的聆聽我們一起努力為我們的台灣回到正常的運作讓人民安居樂業還是我們一起守護這個國家的制度謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3720.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3724.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
謝謝 我們感謝麥正委員我們這裡洪律師不好意思 他剛才愛請你結果拍到不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3738.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3757.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
不好意思 謝謝主席 各位財政委員 各位縣長 大家早安 大家好首先要先說一個很謙秀 也很抱歉雖然沒有人叫我在這裡愛用北京話但是我從小的時候 其實講台語是會發聲的所以很多天背 一樣很遺憾 也很抱歉我沒聽英語說我國語不好所以待會我的發言有時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3767.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3777.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
不一定專程可以用台語 這是首先要說一個很謙虛也很抱歉今天其實剛才我聽吳教授說他第一次參加提名人的講聽會我是比較有經驗 但是這個經驗沒說很好我第一次來講聽會的時候 實際上是第一次大館提名的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3791.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3812.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
我想要從這裡開始說起就是說我們如果觀察我們立法院為大官為NCC一直到現在所謂的需要獨立專業中立性的被提名或者是同意任命的程序中選會不會是第一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3813.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3842.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
但是很遺憾的在整個過程當中這也是我相信是民間的精髓環絡很多的擔憂就是在一路政治這樣子高度的對立對抗的情況之下整個包含公聽會的審查程序包含同意權跟任命權的行使的程序其實都因為這樣子從這個量變也就是說從全部的否決或者是部分的否決事實上我剛舉的例子都是全部的否決 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3843.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3871.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
那產生質變這所謂的質變是什麼就是說剛才吳教授提到了譬如說像公聽會淪為形式譬如說提名的延宕我認為他的本質其實都源自於同一件事情也就是說在這個政治高度對立之下關於提名權跟同意權的形式已經失去了他的本質那這也是為什麼我們在這邊可能要先發布幾個憂心或者說先這個表現幾個憂心的原因 第一點就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3872.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3889.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
如果說我們的公聽會言者尊尊 聽者渺渺我會覺得我定位在這個落關的提名的時候其實我說得也有點苦口或者語重心長那時候我說我們的提名人或被提名的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3891.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3920.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
並不是像這個部分委員所提到說全部都是這個所謂的綠油油全部都是只為了哪一邊在講話事實上他們的專業他們的這個我不敢說每一位我不敢說每一位但是我相信有非常多數在他的專業在他的這個一路以來的這個表現對於人權民主法治的堅持之上其實是有目共睹的那這個在專業學群其實也有相當的豐平的 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3920.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3944.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
但是他的結果其實是就是全部被一概的抹殺那這個情況其實大家會看在眼裡的那再一次的我們在NCC其實也看到同樣的情況就是裡面有非常多學者其實大家甚至可以說他們為了有些人可能為了某一些這個政黨其實也是做了不少的事情但是同樣的被封殺 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3946.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3967.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
那這種情況其實從結果來看又再一次的顯現說不管你進行了公聽會不管為了他們這個過去做了多少努力最後在這樣朝野的對立的情況之下仍然被封殺那所以這一次的這個中選會當然剛才其實像幾位教授都對個別的提名人然後有進入這個進入這個具體的說明但是我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3968.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3991.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
恐怕要在一開始要先講就是說對於整個目前我們所有的人事提名跟任命的這個過程導致審查機制可能變成譬如說政黨我們其實在很多的大法官解釋都已經提到所謂的人事同意權跟提名權不能夠按照政黨比例也不應該成為政黨配合的工具但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3991.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
4008.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
如果說這一套的審查機制一路這樣子這個走下來我們會有這樣子的擔心就是本來不應該成為政黨比例或者是政黨配合的這個工具的最後會變成這樣子的操作的結果那其次我們也想要這個我這邊也想要提一個就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
4010.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
4022.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
剛才提到說中選會或許是一個感染值是一個出發點這一點我同意就是各位其實可能這個立委助攻日後在審查或者在表決的時候可能要特別注意就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
4023.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
4050.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
這一屆的中學會其實會處理非常多的重要的議題那台灣的選舉一直到今天為止我們從過去比如說會因為關燈然後突然這個選舉結果大變一直到今天為止不管各個陣營雖然在我們在上一次的這個總統大選當中也有所謂的作票或者是這個後面被證實是假訊息的相關的傳聞但是大家可以知道不管在台灣的民主或者選舉過程會怎麼往前走 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
4051.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
4072.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
一個公正被大家可以信賴的選舉這件事情是一個根本的基礎那所以從這個角度來看的話我們這一屆的這個總選會委員在當選在這個如果能夠順利獲得同意任命的情況之下基本上會至少處理一次的地方大選跟一次的中央大選那如果說這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
4074.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
4101.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
預設兩個情況一個是說如果說這一次是像過去的大法官或NCC一樣是全部被不同意的情況之下那當然而然我們會擔心的就是說可以可能被面臨的批評就是說現在這一屆的中選會委員都是沒有經過目前的這個立法院行使過同意權的委員從而從這個角度來想要質疑 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
4101.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
4130.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
可能進行選舉的這個中立性或者是說客觀性的這個挑戰那另外一個就是說另外一個可能性就是說如果說這一次因為剛才有提到有先經過政黨的徵詢那所以最後投票的結果變成是特定政黨經過徵詢提過的才會同意那沒有經過這個譬如說沒有經過這個立法院的在野黨這個徵詢或同意或推薦的就一概全部不同意的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
4131.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
4157.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
那其實這個也會更進一步的強化或者說可能進一步的讓民眾有這樣的認知就是說中選會的委員其實是跟政黨比例有關係或者說跟他的政黨推薦有關係那這跟我們在這個中選會組織法當中一再要求中選會其實必須要政治中立那特定政黨的比例不能夠超過一定的比例這樣的要求其實是會相互違背的 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
4158.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
4173.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
所以從這兩個角度出發都會非常懇請大院在做立法剛才我也聽到這個麥委員提到他提到說這個對於這個所謂的不符合中立或專業的委員他們會的這個被提名的會嚴格審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
4173.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
4201.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
但是我在這邊再一次的希望能夠卑微的這個提出請求就是說所謂的不符合不要只是用所謂的反對票來提出上一次我在這個大法官這個公聽會的被提名人的公聽會當中我也曾經做過同樣的呼籲或建議也就是說如果真的不符合那請提出一位他願意點頭接受而且能夠被社會所公平的 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
4201.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
4230.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
所謂的替代人選來供公眾檢驗剛才我們提到這個提名被延宕其實有一個很大的理由就是說在現在的政治環境之下確實已經達到某些人所說的在一般民間社會的人才不願意進到公部門服務的這樣子的憂慮跟擔心那我們希望中選會的這個這個提名跟同意程序能夠作為第一次能夠扭轉這個現象讓我們的民間的人才能夠進一步的願意進到公部門的這個開始 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4235.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4240.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
謝謝我們感謝洪律師我們家賴律師 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4253.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4267.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
主席各位委員各位先進我們今天就這個中選會被提名人由內政委員會進行投票審查前的公聽會 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4269.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4286.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
那我注意到那个我们的游迎龙主委那他在先前就在媒体上就各界非常关心的不再急投票的问题那游主委有表达他的立场是 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4287.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4309.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
樂觀其成 但要非常謹慎我就由組委所講到的非常謹慎我就我自己過去的一些參與經驗我所知道的跟各位委員 各位專家做一個報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4313.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4326.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
我自己在2004年那一次應該是我國選舉史上最大的選舉爭議跟最大的 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4329.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4340.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
選舉訴訟那個選舉訴訟那一年2004年因為連戰跟宋楚瑜分別提起了當選無效之訴跟選舉無效之訴那個時候我曾經擔任選舉無效之訴中選會的訴訟代理人根據我的觀察確實在如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4354.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4380.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
我國要採取不在籍投票而且我要推動這個不在籍投票制度的話可能真的要非常慎重第一點就是現在目前我們大院立法院有的不在籍投票的草案為了要去除人民的疑慮都會強調說沒有採取電子投票 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4382.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4404.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
也沒有採取通信投票而是採取實體的選票的移轉讓人民可以更方便的就近投票這個立場你可以說是對的是謹慎的但是他可能也忽略了另外一面的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4408.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4431.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
我稍微做點解釋不採取電子投票的原因很簡單因為大家擔心電子投票可能會有系統性舞弊誰能夠操縱電子系統誰就可能掌握最終的結果事實上國外電子投票有舞弊的也不是沒有發生過不採取 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4435.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4460.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
通訊投票郵寄選票中選會或地方選委會把選票郵寄到選舉人家中然後選舉人投完票再寄到選委會這也有道理不採取這個方法最擔心的是什麼當事人投票的爭議就是你把票宣選了以後封禁信封 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4461.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4487.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
寄給中選會這個最後這個人是不是真的是本人就是中選會沒有辦法派一個人在家中裝一個監視器抬頭確認是本人所以不管中國國民黨的版本或民眾黨的版本在跨出這一步的時候都很謹慎所以我們不要電子投票不要通信投票但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4489.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4508.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
因為這樣就選擇了說我們要移轉投票但是如果真的照由主委的意見要非常謹慎的話那我提醒大家來思考我們真的要非常謹慎面對這個問題第一個你真的去找一下大部分不在籍投票的推動不在籍投票國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4509.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4530.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
很多都是用通信投票很多都是用电子投票当你不要通信投票又不要电子投票的时候事实上你会面对一个非常庞大的选务作业就是你要把那么多的选票将近9000种从1万多个投开票所 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4531.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4560.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
移轉到另外一萬多個投開票所然後這中間不能出錯那他所需要的行政成本跟你必須逐一確認的事情那選舉又要防止舞弊而且這個防止舞弊不只是說我就是我心中坦蕩蕩我沒有舞弊而必須做到就是說那個外觀讓大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4560.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4586.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
都可以取信說這樣做不可能舞弊那他所需要的投入的成本會是一個非常大的行政成本我不敢說一定做不到但是我們可能要問說這一屆的中選會委員準備好了沒有要做那麼大規模的全面不在籍投票還是要從現在就是大院已經通過的 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4588.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4612.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
原住民 平地原住民 山地原住民大概三十幾萬 三四十萬人兩種選票的不在籍投票來逐步嘗試了過以後然後再來檢討下一步可以怎麼走會不會這是一個方法這個是也許游教授或者是各位委員可以思考的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4614.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4621.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
我要特別講台灣的選舉事實上你跟其他的國家來選舉來比我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4624.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4648.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
謹慎程度是優於其他國家的但是換一個角度我們其實是等於是在要求一個零瑕疵的選舉任何的選舉瑕疵都會在高度政治動員中被放大我們去看1986年菲律賓的總統大選最高法院最後的裁定是哪幾個投開票哪幾個票箱要開票 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4649.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4678.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
拿幾個投票箱不開票因為他覺得那個過程可能已經被污染了已經不見得是公正了這種東西你沒有辦法想像搬到台灣來啦台灣的選舉一定是做到每一張票都要開票每一張票都要確認那我以下就讓我講兩件事情是非常選舉實務的事情但是當你把他拉到全面不在籍投票了以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4678.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4706.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
是会非常困难的我说选举实务的问题是我记得在前几个礼拜相关场合里面我提到就选务人员而言他开完票计票了以后他最后要完成一个铁律就是一个如果用会计上来讲的话我们说借贷要均衡那用选票来看的话简单讲就是一号加二号加三号加四号所有的有效票 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4707.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4718.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
加所有的無效票加所有的已領未投票必須等於選舉人名冊的領票數一票都不能少 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4719.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4737.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
少了你講說為什麼少了你要交代為什麼是不是有人選舉人沒有來投票然後選務人員偷偷塞一張票到票箱裡面一票都不能少然後你再加上用餘票數必須等於該選區的發票數 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4743.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4758.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
那事實上你如果說你要做九千多將近九千個等式足以這個比對一萬多個牌料投開票數這絕對做不完的抱歉給我一分鐘我再講一件事情不只是這樣選舉訴訟還要對到什麼對到選舉人名冊 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4763.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4784.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
選舉人名冊 我們可以有簽章 可以蓋印章也可以蓋指印 蓋指印要有兩個人選主委跟監察員的會簽簽章證明說這個人真的是親手蓋指印下去的 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4785.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4794.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
在那次在選舉訴訟裡面我們的選舉大家會挑剔到什麼程度當時聯送連戰陣營就說你很多即使點選舉人名冊人數點對了他說簽章與姓名不符 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4802.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4824.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
簽章選舉人是張三蓋的章不是張三怎麼會這樣呢我們那時候就是看選舉人名冊我們的法院真的也很挑剔簽章與姓名不符如果真的是章弄錯了這可能有問題但是我們有些情況比如說 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4825.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4845.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
我們很多就是一定年紀的長輩比如說黃鵝草頭黃女字旁的鵝黃鵝他的章可能是黃阿鵝黃氏阿鵝千章與姓名不符那我用這個例子是要跟大家講說 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4847.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4859.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
臺灣幾十年來大家已經形成了選務必須零瑕疵的概念連我剛剛講的那個黃阿兒黃氏阿兒黃兒法院都認為這個叫做簽章與姓名不符 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4860.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4878.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
那用這個標準大家去想一下真的好像我們下午還會有個公聽會多聽聽看選務人員怎麼講這樣的大規模的全面不在籍投票真的符合我們游盈隆主委所說的要非常慎重嗎謝謝謝謝我們感謝賴律師我們家劉教授 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4899.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4924.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
我們敬愛主席 我們各位在床的立委還有各位先進好朋友 大家好我是文化大學教授紐澤勛第一次發言今天非常非常榮幸能夠來到立法院針對這個中選會的委員去跟大家做一番腦力激盪我自己是心裡面是覺得非常非常的高興的因為畢竟能夠把自己心裡面的一些相關想法對近來政治局勢的一些相關一些看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4924.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4941.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
做一个综合的一个说明跟各位先进就教育各位先进我觉得是非常非常难得的一个机会那我开宗明义跟大家报告一下就是说我认为这一次的一个中选会的一个提名这份的一个名单基本上来讲的话我是希望他能够通过的 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4942.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4968.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
我希望他能夠通過大概有三個原因那第二個面向就是說如果這份名單真的能夠被通過來講的話其實我也有三個期許那我先講三個原因主要來講的話為什麼希望這份中選會的名單能夠通過因為第一個原因就是說裡面非常多的專家學者來說的話他其實都是衣食之選比如說內定的主委的人選游英龍教授在整個民調的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4969.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4974.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
執行面向上面或者是整個的一個社會議題的一個觀察面向上面來講的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4975.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
5003.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
他確實都有獨到的一個見解而且能夠藉由細膩的一個數據的一個分析去展現社會背後所代表的一些價值意義我覺得這個是難能可貴的那第二位蘇子喬教授其實他在政治學理論或者是選舉理論上面來講的話基本上他是一個獨步江湖的一個領導者那再加上黃文林律師黃文林律師之前也擔任過立委 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
5004.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
5021.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
那也非常熱心公共事務特別是他的父親是之前有擔任過幾屆的中選會的主委黃石誠黃石誠主委來講的話其實就像剛剛謝教授有特別提到的他一生都是標榜無黨政派 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
5022.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
5049.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
看事情都能夠跳脫政治的一個框架來看事情看問題那所以來講的話如果今天他的女兒黃文玲也能夠擔任中選會委員來說的話其實我覺得不是為一樁美談這是第一個部分我認為人選的部分絕大多數都是一流的人選一時之選那第二面向來講的話你從這份名單裡面也可以清楚的發現他其實有 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
5050.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
5064.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
民眾黨推薦或是國民黨推薦也就是有在野黨進行推薦那這份名單來講的話如果能夠採納在野黨推薦的一些相關專業的一些人士來說的話那我們就認為就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
5065.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
5093.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
在整個平台建構上面能夠有社會多元不同意見的一個反應這個部分除了能夠跟細膩的去進行腦力激盪之外也能夠透過彼此某程度的一個制衡讓人民的權益或是整個選舉的一個公平公正性獲得更大的一個保障我覺得這個部分是我希望這份名單能夠通過的第二個原因那第三個原因我會認為就是說這一次的一個名單 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
5094.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
5121.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
他如果能够通过来说的话他代表一个朝野和解的一个契机因为毕竟就这次的一个名单里面行政院能够有跨党派的一些委员相关的一些建议来讲的话某种程度是释出了橄榄枝那在释出了橄榄枝展现了一定程度善意的一个情况之下如果在野党在表决的过程中间也能够某程度的去感受到 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
5122.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
5142.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
行政高層所提出的這樣的一種善意來講的話讓這個整個名單能夠通過來說的話我認為它確實可能是朝野和解的一個起點所以以上是我希望這份名單能夠被通過的一個主要的一個原因那另外面向其實我有三個期許第一個期許就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
5143.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
5170.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
這份名單它其實容納了在野推薦的一些專業的一些人士那我就期待就是說日後大法官的一個提名或者是NCC的一個提名乃至更日後考試監察委員相關的一些提名來講的話是不是都可以去藉由這樣的一個標準去進行跟在野黨的一個溝通接納在野黨所推薦相關的一些人選因為畢竟如果能夠這樣子做來講的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
5171.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
5196.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
他不但可以去展現好執政高層的一個格局之外還有一句古話他是這樣子講的泰山不讓泥土所以成其大江海不則細流所以就其身意思也就是說能夠展現格局也能夠去體現社會多元的一個力量在同樣的一個平台上面去為國為民做一定程度有效的一個貢獻這是我第一個期許 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
5197.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
5200.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
那第二個期許來講的話是我會認為就是說這份名單行政高層已經某程度地遞出了善意的一個橄欖枝所以我認為就是說在野陣營應該要做某種程度善意的一個回應那但是呢我會比較貪心地進一步希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
5214.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5237.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
而執政者 比如說賴總統是不是能夠進一步的去進行朝野和解推動的一個動作比如說可以跟在野黨主席去進行一個不借形式不設立名目也就是說之前以國安簡報為名這樣的一個名目的一個設立我覺得都不用不設前提 不立名目 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5237.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5243.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
不拘形式去跟在野黨主席去進行一個溝通跟對談我認為這樣子來講的話他在整個的一個表示善意的一個部分或是希望能夠體現朝野和解的一個部分來講的話這樣的一個用心在野黨可能更能夠心領神會因為畢竟這個社會真的悶了太久了如果整個的一個政治對峙是非常非常嚴峻的 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5263.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5281.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
整個社會民眾的一個壓力也會非常非常的大那社會上面的一些相關衝突事件或許也有可能會此起彼落那所以我會認為就是說朝野是不是基於這樣的一個原則某種程度的都可以各退一步那最後一個期許來講的話是希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5282.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5289.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
朝野的高層政治人物能夠多給我們一些民眾一些激勵跟鼓勵因為大家真的太悶了現在朝野對峙的一個情勢或是國際兩岸緊張的一個情勢包括整個社會的一些事件不斷的頻傳這樣的一個情況之下來講的話其實我們就像是一個壓力鍋瀕臨瀕臨崩盤的一個壓力鍋瀕臨爆炸的一個壓力鍋所以在這樣的一個情況之下我們真的希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5311.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5329.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
政治人物朝野的高層政治人物能多給我們民眾一定程度的一些期許一定程度的鼓勵或是一定程度的一個激勵因為畢竟各位可以去看2025年退後到2019年的年度的一個關鍵字去年是罷免的罷 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5330.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5333.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
那前年是貪 在前年的話是缺 在前年的話是漲價的漲在前年是宅在家的宅 在前年的話也就是2020年的話是疫情的疫2019年是亂 那所以民眾的壓力 朝野的高層應該可想而知這是我第三個期許 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5352.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5358.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
那最後昨天大家一定有看到一個非常精彩而且驚心動魄的就是霍諾德他這個極限運動家他徒手然後攀爬101然後達到了最高的一個頂點這就是一個非常激勵人心的一個故事 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5373.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5379.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
這個動作應該很難吧你要攀爬101而且徒手是非常非常困難的一件事情但是我覺得朝野和解應該沒有那麼困難吧霍諾德他靠的是毅力信心堅持勇氣他能夠攀頂這麼困難的事情霍諾德他都做到了 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5391.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5410.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
但是朝野和解我會認為相對的比較容易只要政黨的高層能夠拋棄每次一舉手一投足都要精算到小數點後八位數這樣的一個全謀算計你多用一點點真心用一點點耐心用一點點誠意來說的話我覺得對朝野和解來講它就有水到渠成這樣的一個機會 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5417.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5440.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
霍诺德昨天的一个表现确实激励了所有的台湾的一个民众他给我们上了深深的一课那所以我们也非常期许朝野高层跟政治人物来说的话能够心领神会顺势进行相当程度的朝野和解以上浅见就交给各位如果有相关的一些冒犯还请各位见谅感谢各位谢谢 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5443.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5446.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
謝謝 感謝牛教授 咱家黃教授 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5459.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5474.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
主席好主席各位委員以及在座各位先進早安我是黃仁俊很榮幸能夠受邀參與此次的公聽會在正式發言以前我先做一個簡單的聲明今天的發言只代表我個人不代表我所屬的單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5475.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5497.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
以及推薦我的政黨我希望能將自己作為一個憲法學者的使命提供自己的專業意見以及對於中央選舉委員會未來的功能和職責提供給大院作為參考今天我想用這個簡單的十分鐘這個簡短的時間來談兩個主要的問題首先是中央選舉委員會在憲法上應有的功能以及未來的課題 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5498.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5506.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
其次是在數位民主下中央選舉委員會作為執法機關以及獨立機關所應扮演的角色 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5508.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5527.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
從這次的提名名單來看有蠻多位學有專精和富有政治歷練的法政學者和專家他們的研究專長多半橫跨政治學、憲法學和行政學並且在憲政理論和行政實務上都有傑出的表現足以升任中央選舉委員會的職務 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5528.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5540.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
同時亦符合中央選舉委員會組織法第三條第三項本會委員因遴選具有法證相關學士經驗之公正人士擔任委員之中 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5541.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5560.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
同一黨籍不得超過委員總數的三分之一從各提名各提名人所屬的政黨也可以推資 此次的名單是草野政黨 具有共識的亦符合社會期待的草野和諧我個人也非常樂見在這個行政跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5561.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5574.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
立法的二元民主中能夠以中選會的提名中選會委員的提名和同意作為一個朝野合作的契機那也為過往的憲政僵局帶來一道和諧的曙光 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5576.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5594.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
畢竟台灣不是獨裁專制的國家在解嚴之後立法委員和總統都需要一定都需要通過定期的選舉來產生無法自行的嚴認正如大法官解釋在4至第499號解釋所言憲法條文中諸如第一條 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5596.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5623.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
所樹立的民主共和國原則第二條國民主權原則第二章保障人民的權利以及有關權利分立與制衡之原則具有本質的重要性亦為憲法整體基本原則之所在基於前述相關規定所形成的自由民主憲政秩序乃憲法賴以純立的基礎凡憲法設置的機關均有遵守的義務也期許各政黨 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5626.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5641.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
我們在國家認同上雖然有分歧但憲法是大家的也是我們的在自由民主憲政的秩序之下由於獨立公正超越黨派的中選會使能貫徹憲法第十七條人民有選舉罷免創制復決之權 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5643.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5660.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
以及第129條所規定的以普通平等直接無記名投票之選舉方法與選舉制度首先我想從以憲法作為起點來談談中選會作為獨立機關在憲法上的功能雖然中選會並非是憲法所設置的機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5661.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5680.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
不過人民的政治權利包含選舉罷免創制覆決和公民投票這些權利的行使不僅有賴立法者在選罷法的制度形塑亦需要透過中選會作為選務機關來具體執行通過選舉程序將人民的意志轉化為國家的意志 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5682.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5697.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
從中選會組織法第二條來看中選會的權限 除了選舉罷免公民投票的事務規劃 辦理 指揮監督之外它還涉及了選區的劃分以及政黨候選人競選費用的補貼 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5700.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5717.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
而直接關聯到是憲法上選舉平等原則的核心我們2023年憲法法庭已經對憲法平等原則做出多號判決不論是12年憲判制第11號的選舉幽靈人口案112年憲判制第18號選舉重新計票案以及12年憲裁制第146號的受刑人投票權案都是圍繞憲法 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5730.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5752.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
第16條的選舉權以及公職人員選罷法公職人員選舉罷免法而使得選舉平等權躍上了憲法訴訟的舞台同時中選會亦作為相關機關參與其中未來的中選會也會隨著選舉訴訟跟憲法訴訟的接軌而有著更多的憲法課題需要面對對於 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5755.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5762.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
新任的中選會委員能夠結合自己的憲法或法證專長在此發揮常才我是相當樂見的 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5764.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5791.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
再者 過往的中選會往往基於選政跟選務的二分限縮在辦理選務的行政思維其實選舉制度是無法單純切分選政跟選務的未來的不在籍投票 移轉投票 平埔族原住民選區的劃分應當是可以攜手內政部原委會進行跨部會的法案研究以及草案的提出 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5791.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5798.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
也值得期待未來的中選會委員能夠秉持公正公開公平的原則 格守 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5799.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5822.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
超然獨立的精神自律維護公平競選的秩序其次我想談論的是在數位民主下中央學軍委員會作為執法機關跟獨立機關所扮演的角色人工智慧的崛起不僅改變了台灣人對台積電股價的想像人工智慧同時也進一步操弄著台灣選民的投票行為 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5823.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5850.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
中央選舉委員會不是只是單純印製選舉公報頒發當選證書的獨立機關而是應當在選舉期間附有防範跟中斷不實資訊跟陰謀論的執法機關這一點我們可以說是先天不良又後天失調先天不良的地方是我們不論在瑞典哥德堡的民主多樣性研究所的民主年報或歐洲議會 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5853.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5878.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
這個外來勢力干預歐盟民主程序特別委員會或者稱ING委員會都將台灣評為自由民主國家陣營中受到境外不實資訊攻擊最多的國家後天上呢我們數位中介法又立法為果行政機關各司其職呈現單線作戰使得我們現行對抗資訊操弄的武器 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5879.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5894.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
行政機關只有開記者會新聞成績考跟社會秩序維護法因此我期待未來的中選會上任必須思考在刑法妨礙投票罪章外建立一套行政管制的制度 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5895.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5907.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
例如我們可以藉經歐盟在選舉期間進行源頭打擊可以作為反制假訊息在輿論回應跟行政管制的示範歐盟在選舉期間將干預選舉的言論分為五類針對資訊的油量針對公民投票的能力針對候選人跟政黨人 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5914.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5925.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
針對對於民主的信任以及針對選舉相關的基礎措施而採取了忽視、遏止、淡化、導政的分級回應這些機制是有別於台灣採取惡、假、害的判斷標準歐盟可以更細緻的區分行為者行為內容程度和影響性面對選舉期間的不實言論可以產生一套靈活的反制措施例如事前的快速警報系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5944.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5970.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
於情共享和分析中心精準的反制工具箱用以快速反擊導正最後有人說自由不是免費的同樣的民主也不是自動運行的而是我們人民透過一票一票的選舉產生出的民主的選舉不只是政黨的輸贏還需要幕後獨立公正的選務人員以及中選會委員我先報告到這裡 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5973.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5990.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
謝謝我們感謝黃教授在今天報告的學者當中我們的教授跟律師阿公很多讓我們可以參考的意見在這裡本學要說中央選舉委員會綜合規劃的張處長跟林書雪的張主任 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
6000.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
6013.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
跟行政院臨時行政總署的培訓考用處的張專員委員在這個過程當中我認為在你們的角色和這些專門的律師和教授給我們這些議決是不是這個張專委委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
6029.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
6045.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
來提出您的意見因為在這裡面請我們縣政機關委員本署提名作約跟專案核架所提出的意見來請我們張專員的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
6062.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
6084.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
本來今天是公聽會議應該是以專家學者為主沒有預期說今天會上來不過跟各位委員的意見我首先就是要感謝今天來參會的各位學者 專家 委員還有律師我覺得中選會是我國最重要的民主法治跟人民參與政權的一個機關大家很難想像說沒有中選會的這些委員在的話我們節目工作怎麼去推行所以今天特別感謝今天來參與的這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
6086.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
6101.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
我們的召集人還有那各位委員那剛才跟各位委員提到的一些作業的程序因為我們人事總署負責的就是說選這個整個提名作業的一些一些行政作業的程序那真正的這些遴選應該還是在運裡面那最後的 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
6102.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
6125.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
決定還是在立法院這邊那我針對程序這邊再說明一下就是說第一個我們那個這回提名的總共有七個人那有六個人是在任期到118年11月2號那其中一名是到116年的11月3號那這是總體是有一個委員辭職的地補的原因那這七名委員因為我們提名人選裡面包含各黨團那各位 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
6125.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
6140.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
也可以看到這補償團的名單裡面包含中央地方一些經驗的還有草擬都有推薦人選那我想剛才也有孫大學提到這次都是一時之選我想這個大家都是有共識的那另外就是說我們在作業上我們這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
6141.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
6162.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
在12月29號的時候我們是行政院提名到立法院來請立法院去做審查那立法院在1月2號的時候交付委員會去審查那接著進行一個月的期間的審查那這一個月裡面包含今天進行的公聽會然後還有那個2829號會進行審查會那我想說這一個月的期間大概對各位 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
6162.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6183.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
可以社會各界看到這些名單可以做充分的去了解跟認識我想在立法院裡面這個審查會也做一個充分的去做審查這一個月過後之後立法院這邊審查會做一個報告出來報告出來之後就會提院會去表決我想院會就是立法院的院會裡面做最後民主的決定以上報告 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6189.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6198.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
主席 各位大家好 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6216.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6224.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
那剛才 包括剛才聽到這個這個是專委這邊的 包括還有專校學者 我還是提出幾個問題啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6227.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6245.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
首先就是說第一個剛才有提到就是說這一次的這個七個人很明顯的有徵詢各黨三黨的意見這個是蠻明顯的包括我剛才有發現是不是我們學者專載這七個人也是這樣分配的 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6246.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6263.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
可能也是蔡英文賠了 我不知道所以 我在想說那如果這一次這七個這七個真的啦 是這樣的一個情況要通過那是不是可以沿用到未來包括NC 甚至大法官我認為可能我有點質疑因為這個中選會因為它是選舉它是專門處理的是選舉的事務這個是民主原則那它基本上徵詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6274.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6286.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
各黨的意見 我覺得這個是應該那可是如果說像大法官我不是說不能徵詢 但是徵詢的對象可能不是只有政黨喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6288.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6307.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
因為大法官他這個名稱叫做大喔這個在美國地方最高法院的法官他是Justice大寫正義所以這個模式是不是可以應用到其他的模式我是覺得有點誤號而且更重要的是說如果這種藉由這種我還是這裡就面臨一個問題就是說未來像這種包括這個行政院裡面的這個獨立的機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6315.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6335.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
那到底我們是要偏重在政治妥協的結果還是要強調大家每個人都認為應該要有的那個獨立跟綜藝性那當然我還是要強調就是說剛才我們要提到因為主席剛才跟我講原來三黨都有但是我手邊的就這個那我就要再抱怨一下了 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6336.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6344.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
就是說你既然就是說在座剛才其他幾個學者也提到啊對不對如果說不要過水的話只是說我們來這邊發個牢騷如果我們只是過水這樣的話我覺得意義真的不是很大我覺得也是對我們學者不尊重我覺得真的很不尊重首先不僅是如果三長都有的話那應該都要給我們而且更重要他們的回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6365.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6392.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
不是只有問卷的問題吧他們的問題可能更重要啊對啊 那這一次因為時間實在是壓迫到我剛才聽那個中委講他認為一個月算充分嗎我覺得如果大家這麼看重這個中選會委員的話我覺得一個月是基本上是有問題的啊因為這個太壓迫了包括我不知道我不知道立法院這邊委員會看到三個黨提出的這個問卷 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6394.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6413.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
那你們哪個時候看到嘛 我不知道啊因為我手邊是完全沒有啊那如果只是要我看這種自視性的這種東西我覺得這個真的來講不要說對我們專家學也不尊重我覺得對被提名的也不尊重 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6414.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6417.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
那我要講你說這些問卷的問題他也有可能虛打那我覺得沒有關係我覺得針對重要議題重要議題喔這七個背題面他們敢不敢勇於回答還是只是在那邊很胡誇的還是原則性的宣示 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6432.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6453.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
看他怎麼具體回答 我們還在看他態度啊對不對 因為如果說他連對重大議題表達意見的這一點他都不敢永遠表達 而且是虛擬一遭的話那我真的不能期待說他未來當中協會委員不管是主委 副主委 或其他委員能夠獨立行使啦這個是我針對這個 剛才這個意見我再補充一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6460.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6461.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
謝謝鄧麗如法官 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6473.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6498.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
主席各位先進 那個不好意思在用大家時間我想要呼應剛才吳教授的兩個部分那最重要的就是說剛才其實大家提到說中選會的這個任命的同意可能是作為這個橄欖枝那但是我也是有一點點憂慮就是說如果這個所謂按照政黨推薦比例繼續要適用到NCC特別是大法官 那我覺得這邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6500.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6513.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
民間恐怕會有一個相當的憂慮一個很重要的原因在於說其實有幾個可能的誤解第一個大法官的提名程序並不是沒有民間的意見的灌輸就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6514.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6533.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
其實在台灣的這個過去以往的慣例來講其實關於大法官的人選從來就是各個民間團體但是排除政黨徵詢跟推薦那這個非常優秀的傳統我想有一個非常重要的原因其實就是剛才吳教授所提到的大法官本身並不是他是政治中立的而且是這個作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6534.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6560.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
所謂最後的司法定奪的部分這跟中選會本身各個政黨都希望透過這樣的機制來取得執政的正當性取得選舉的公正性本質上有很大的不同那所以這個部分其實我是個人對於如果日後這樣子政黨推薦的機制要適用在大法官上確實是會有這個相當的保留那這個是我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6561.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6579.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
針對這個部分想要特別提的第二個就是說關於這一次的這個這個中選會委員的這個被提名的部分剛才吳教授也提到說要能夠適度的對於這個當選者不管是立法或者是在野不管是行政或者是立法能夠表達這個不同的意見這一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6580.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6607.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
那這一次的其實被提名人我也要做一點肯定其實如果說詳細讀他們的這個自傳或者是說相關的說明的話你也會注意到有某些的被提名人他是很明白的表示他認為譬如說公投綁大選這件事情這個已經經過大院已經立法通過了但是他是明白的表示說他個人是不認同的但是如何能夠在適度的表達反對意見之下仍然能夠在這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6610.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6638.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
依照現行的法律來進行執政進行這個施政我想這件事情或者這個態度的表達本身是重要的那這個其實我在讀這個自傳的時候其實有點擔心就是說被提名的你就這個立場表達的這麼清楚而明顯就表示說我其實反對大院這一屆所通過的立法這一點其實看起來是有點危險的所以這邊我也希望能夠再幫他多講一句話就是說他做這樣子的表明其實某種程度是呼應了剛才吳教授所提到的 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6639.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6660.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
能夠適度的對於是非對錯能夠跳出政黨的這個意見或者跳出這個大院目前已經通過立法的意見在適度表達自己的見解之下仍然能夠尊重現行法律表明說他即使不同意仍然願意按照現行法這個忠實的執行他的職務我想這是值得肯定的以上 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6662.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6670.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
謝謝我們感謝洪律師我們請問還有學者專家在家會發言嗎沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6684.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6707.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
在這裡 針對本次工廠會做議案的結論非常感謝各位學者、專家提供報告的意見作為澳新澤本領事董議員的參考今天所有出席的領館發現和提供市面資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6711.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6725.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
審判會委員所提出的書面資料除列入紀錄刊登的範圍公報外也會造成另外行為公聽會的報告上告本院全體委員及今天所 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6733.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6745.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
出席的委員參與在此感謝各位的參與謝謝大家本次的共聽會到此結束現在散會謝謝大家 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6771.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6800.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
然後 因為我剛才跟郭文貴說真的 聖堂會差不多這個 只有四個會議然後我剛才跟郭文貴說對 我覺得是 從大陸的思考感到好感到好 感謝 感謝 感謝今天 今天 今天我剛才跟郭文貴說我們國會一樓會出 他說我剛才跟郭文貴說我剛才跟郭文貴說真的 你們 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6800.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6825.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
謝謝,我親愛的好朋友謝謝,因為在你們的官方,我們都會,大家都來,我們都會 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6828.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6855.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
謝謝謝謝謝謝 |