| IVOD_ID |
17210 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17210 |
| 日期 |
2026-01-19 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-15-21 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期內政委員會第21次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
21 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
15 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
內政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期內政委員會第21次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2026-01-19T08:36:00+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-01-19T13:49:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
05:13:00 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/eeffa975d6a1e3ea831044d4eb4d20987ef8ffe3c1e695f70a219bd209750d2da2c473f64e2ed8fc5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-01-19T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第21次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請原住民族委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人原住民族文化事業基金會董事長與財團法人原住民族語言研究發展基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、邀請內政部部長就「賴清德總統興建13萬戶社會住宅政策無法落實之檢討」進行專題報告並備質詢。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:36:00 - 13:49:00 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
1650.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].end |
1665.793 |
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請主任秘書報告出席人數報告委員會出席委員11人已足法定人數現在開會進行報告事項請宣讀上次會議意思錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1668.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1682.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第24全體委員會議議事錄時間115年1月7日星期三上午9時至12時45分地點紅樓202會議室出席委員高金素美委員等13人列席委員林德福委員等34人 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1683.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1706.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
請假委員 丁學忠委員一人列席官員 內政部政務次長馬詩媛暨相關人員大陸委員會副主任委員梁文傑暨相關人員法務部政務次長徐錫翔暨相關人員原住民組委員會副主任委員杜彰梅莊行政院國家安全局國防部司法院海洋委員會外交部經濟部財政部交通部農業部衛生福利部數位發展部考試院權序部教育部 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1706.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1731.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
行政院人事 行政總署 國家通訊傳播委員會國家科學及技術委員會 金融監督管理委員會國軍退出役官兵輔導委員會等機關代表及相關人員主席王昭紀委員 美會討論事項 依審查行政院函請審議國家安全法部分條文修正草案繼續審查國家安全法修正草案計9案審查國家安全法修正草案計12案 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1733.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1753.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
討論事項和並詢答台灣民眾黨黨團代表麥玉珍委員說明提案要旨內政部政務次長馬世元大陸委員會副主任委員梁文傑法務部政務次長徐錫祥報告委員蘇巧慧等17人質詢由法務部政務次長徐錫祥內政部政務次長馬世元經濟部智慧財產局局長廖承威大陸委員會副主任委員梁文傑 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1754.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1782.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
司法院刑事廳法官黃湘瑩答覆說明登記發言委員除不在場者外其議均已發言完畢詢答結束委員吳啟明 丁薛忠 林倩啟所提書面質詢列入紀錄刊登公報書面質詢及未及答覆部分請相關機關於一週內另以書面答覆並複製本會決議一 於三月底前召開兩場公聽會原則上國民黨團 民進黨團各召開一場公聽會二 討論事項所列議案均另定期繼續審查宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1785.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1797.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
請問各位委員 設置會議意識度有錯誤或遺漏無錯誤意識度確定那繼續進行本日議程報告事項請宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1800.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1818.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
邀請原住民族委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人原住民族文化事業基金會董事長與財團法人原住民族語言研究發展基金會董事長列席報告業務概況並備質詢邀請內政部部長就賴清德總統興建13萬戶社會住宅政策無法落實之檢討進行專題報告並備質詢宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1828.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1855.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
本日議程報告事項合併詢答現在介紹在場的委員跟列席的官員那首先介紹我們的召委王美惠委員蘇曉慧委員黃婕委員張志倫委員原住民組委員會主委曾志勇 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1858.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1885.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
副主委古仲副主委杜章美莊財團法人原住民族文化事業基金會董事長馬拉歐斯那還有財團法人原住民族語言研究發展基金會董事長馬耀古木內政部部長劉世芳 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1888.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
1895.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
代理署長朱慶倫國家住宅及都市更新中心董事長花敬群 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
1903.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
1931.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
那在今天會議開始之前本席有件事情要先表達就是我們內政委員會今天安排內政部的專題報告名稱就是賴清德總統新建13萬戶的社會住宅政策無法落實是檢討我想但是內政部沒有經過我們內政委員會的同意就算是更改我們這個專題的報告名稱我想這個非常不尊重立法院他同時也代表不願意來承認這個政策上的疏失那本席在這邊要表達非常嚴正的譴責 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
1932.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
1945.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
我想未來也要請中央部會務必要尊重我們立法院的這個職權那現在先請我們原住民主委員會的曾主委自用報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
1956.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
1985.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
主席 各位委員先進感謝立法院長期以來對研民會業務的支持那麼以下就針對本會的業務的推動以及執行的境況則要進行報告第一我們制度化保障原住民族各項的權益平埔原住民族群生活法在一百一十四年十一月十七日大宴審議通過本會目前正受理九個民族的申請認定案 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
1986.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2016.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
并且启动民族研究的调查为了要落实部落自治的精神本会推动部落公法人事办计划显定四个部落示范将会持续的来检视事办的成效另外114年也完成两个T4的原住民自治猎枪安全使用信念的课程将持续收集课程的经验并扩大办理 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2017.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2042.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
來回應族人受信的需求第二推動以及制定原住民族土地法案及權益保障的措施本會推動原住民保留地全力回復以及管理利用條例草案已經完成預告並呈報行政院審議中同時114年10月召開原住民保留地開發管理辦法延商會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2045.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2062.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
將滾動式的修正部分條文以強化災害韌性與文化的傳承此外111年已經公告三個部落的原住民族土地或部落範圍的土地我們將持續推動傳統領域的公告作業第三 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2063.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2083.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
我們要發展原住民族教育以及傳承文化強化原住民族運動人才的發展推動原住民族運動人才育成方案114年度執行補助頂尖以及淺幽的選手我們並協助25所重點學校改善訓練場地以設備 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2085.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2112.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
提供选手和教练训练以及参赛的相关的费用为了要凝聚世界原住民族的情感我们举办第一届世界原住民族传统运动会邀请来自十个国家28个队伍1130多位的选手2500人以上来参与开幕国立原住民族博物馆 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2113.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2139.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
自籌備處成立以後軟體硬體的工作我們同步進行在114年9月19日我們召開了第一次的執行以及審議委員的會議共同研議未來的規劃與方向另外硬體建設方面我們目前正在進行驗景管的工程與內部設計工作另外針對前期興建的規劃目前我們正在進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2140.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2165.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
建築設計淨土招標作業透過擴大邀請各地優秀建築師來角逐研博館的建築設計作為研博館未來的草圖第四我們提升研俱民族健康的照顧網路本會在全國13個縣市共設置66家的研家中心持續提供個案的服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2166.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2185.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
团体与社区工作以协助脆弱家庭补强社会安全机制并且在全国设置了532个文化健康站我们照顾了接近18500多名的长辈第五强化原住民族经济产业的韧性 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2187.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2214.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
本會從111年起就推動原住民族遂時寄宜文化旅遊計畫媒合旅行業者落實文化體驗以及深度旅遊的目標每年有5到7個族群參與到114年已經有35家旅行社32個部落旅遊執行單位創造近千萬元的產值並且帶動部落經濟的發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2215.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2244.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
未来将透过智慧科技与环境永续的引导进一步强化产业转型以回应产业发展趋势第六 我们也营造营积 移积的环境以及文化传承的公共空间为了要建构部落移积生活环境我们已经完成421个案的整体规划推动防检灾的工程以及文化景观的改善 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2245.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2268.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
同時為創造安全的道路交通環境114年以核定特色道路改善計畫共58案並且補助連絡道路的養護希望能夠全面提升部落地區的交通安全以上報告 敬請各位委員先進指教 謝謝大家謝謝曾主委 接下來我們請內政部劉部長釋放報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2286.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2301.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
主席召委 各位委員女士先生大家早感謝各位委員對內政業務的關心指導今天大院內政委員會召開會議內政部針對住宅政策推動的部分整體簡要的說明如下 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2302.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2330.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
住宅法在民國100年立法完成並且在隔年101年公布實施立法以後社會住宅開辦的初期僅有零星興辦直到106年民國106年行政院以8年興辦20萬戶社會住宅為目標也就是106到113年並且在106年1月公布修正住宅法為推動社會住宅機制建立了法治的基礎 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2331.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2359.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
行政院並且在106年3月核定社會住宅新辦計畫結合政府興建與包租代管民間業者兩種供給方案增加供給的資源事後行政院在民國112年12月14日第3884次院會被查推動社會住宅成果與提升社宅用地供給精進措施除了直接興建包租代管以外 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2359.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2377.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
增加租金補貼措施擴大社會住宅量能8年達到100萬戶為目標推動了百萬租屋家庭支持計畫也就是114年到121年以達成穩定住宅市場以及安定人民居住的目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2378.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2383.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
截至114年12月底 全國社宅已經達成227,483戶其中直接興辦社宅已經達成122,680戶中央興辦7138戶 地方興辦52542戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2398.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2403.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
包租代管社宅有效契約數一共有104,803戶另外300億元中央擴大租金補貼專案計畫申請戶數108273戶累計合併的戶數為913,867戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2419.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2445.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
然而台灣面臨都會核心地區宿地稀缺高空污率以及高污齡等多重挑戰同時在推動百萬戶租屋家庭支持計畫的過程當中仍需要審視國家社會情勢的變化包括少子化人口結構趨勢氣候變遷減碳調適公有土地稀缺政府整體財政等等等等因素 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2446.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2469.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
持续适度的滚动调整社会住宅政策的推动策略第一由于目前都会区整体屋龄老旧都更不易而租屋需求仍集中在都会区域尤其是淡黄区为了精准因应租屋需求中央将针对人口成长或是社宅供给不足的地区除了持续透过 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2470.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2497.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
盤點國公有土地整體開發促參都市更新分回等多元化的方式來擴充社會住宅供應量能未來推動重點將放在台北新北桃園台中等都會區地方也應繼續運用市有土地通盤考量人口產業發展通勤情形等因素與中央共同努力來落實興辦設宅 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2499.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2519.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
其次依據住宅法第19條包租代管符合社宅的定義透過擴大包租代管方式引導低度利用空餘屋進入租屋市場增加社會住宅的供給量截至114年12月底包租代管社會住宅有效契約數已經達到104,803戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2523.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2550.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
其中經濟及弱勢社會弱勢戶佔43%合計有44984戶確實保障弱勢族群的居住需求未來包租代管更將以每年新增3萬戶為目標持續來推動第三除了直接興建新辦社會住宅為立即協助租屋家庭租金補貼可減緩租屋家庭的負擔 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2551.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2565.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
使現行租屋家庭在不需要搬遷下即可受惠的立即性需求截至114年12月底至租金補貼申請戶數為108萬戶累計合併戶數為91萬戶以上累計合撥戶數為65萬戶補貼最多的直轄縣市前三名依序為台中市、新北市及桃園市 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2579.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2598.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
針對租金補貼滿意度調查非常滿意及滿意合計達70.9%此外我曾代表內政部率同我們的同仁分別在今年的1月9號跟去年的12月底拜會新北市侯友宜市長以及桃園市長詹上正 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2599.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2622.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
以及團隊兩個市府在住宅政策推動成效顯著且有目共睹侯市長 張市長皆當場表示會積極配合中央訂定的多元新辦包租代管 租金補貼 設宅三軌政策與中央攜手合作持續推動並且指示該市府團隊繼續擴大租屋公共支持的量能 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2623.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2650.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
綜合以上 從106年到現在社會住宅累計層封鎖直接興辦社會住宅已經超過12.2萬戶社宅包租代管有效契約數超過10萬戶以及租金補貼累計合訂件數逾91萬件合計已經超過110萬戶也就是超過百萬戶的家庭獲得政府的照顧與支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2651.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2680.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
最後 務實性 可及性 精準性的推動社會住宅政策是當前政府協助中低收入 社會弱勢以及壽星階級居住安穩的具體行動隨著20萬戶社會住宅於113年底達標以後中央將持續和地方政府共同合作也持續為落實推動百萬租屋家庭支持計畫加速滿足租屋與青年族群居住的需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2682.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2705.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
實質減輕國人居住的負擔 以上簡要的報告請各位委員指教 謝謝其他單位的報告請委員自行參閱並刊登公報現在進行詢問 委員質詢前原力做幾點宣告 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2706.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2733.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
第一每會委員發言時間本會委員5分鐘必要時得延長2分鐘非本會委員5分鐘上午10點30分截止截止發言登記那今天臨時提案截止提出的時間是11點那在我們本委會詢答完畢後處理請問各位同仁有沒有意見沒有意見我們現在進行詢答請登記第一位的舒喬會委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2745.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2748.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
好謝謝主席我們要請袁明慧曾主委請曾主委委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2754.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2777.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
主委好我想我今天還是要就我們原來的主題這個園民會的業務報告也就是向園民會來就教所以園民會其實在這麼多年來講我最關心的其實是我們都市原住民的生活而都市聚會所的建置也是我非常非常關心的一個題目 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2777.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2802.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
因為大家可以看到其實新北市的原住民人口在六都之中算是第二僅次於桃園也就是說全台灣每100位的都市原住民當中大概就20位是在新北市所以如何在這個地方在都市能夠讓我們的文化可以繼續傳承讓我們的碎石記憶活動可以順利的舉辦其實對都市原住民來講真的是非常重要的一件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2803.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2816.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
好那主委我現在我們看到這個在2024年開始我們推動了一個計畫叫做建制原住民族群主流原住民族族群主流化友善公共空間計畫持續2024年到2027年那這個計畫其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2824.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2848.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
現在通過了幾案甚至是在前一陣子我們也有一起去會主委也有跟我們一起去會勘過那請問一下主委你覺得這個計畫反應如何現在執行的成效如何謝謝委員那這個計畫在就是去年底12月底我們已經核定補助12個案12個12個案那已經累計就是說我們核定的經費差不多有3億3千多萬那我們想說這個計畫執行的 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2853.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2878.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
執行的就是說部落族人很需要所以我想我們陸續還是會繼續來做這個協助跟補助就表示反應不錯就對了好我這邊有一個統計的數字是在六都的申請狀況你剛剛說有超過我現在你剛剛說有核定了12案但是如果是以我們六都因為我這裡是統計六都我目前統計出來的數字是7案那像新北的話申請的是兩案 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2879.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2909.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
合定的是一案我想這個合定的就是在2024年8月30號的時候主委你有和這個吳麗華委員吳清明委員一起去會刊過而他後來的這就是我們的龍恩普案喔龍恩普的這一案我們就合定而且是動工了動工的時候呢我也有去參與到現場確實是非常的漂亮而且符合大家的使用狀況可是那另外一案呢板橋的這一案為什麼沒有通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2911.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2937.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
這個標準到底是在哪裡因為這個跟那個我們的那個這個龍恩浦這個不太一樣那板橋這個案他部分他的設計都是會議室還有販賣空間的使用這個就比較不符合我們族群這個主流化的這個多功能的這個公共的服務的空間那我想我們也在跟新北市政府是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2938.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2958.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
他的計畫要做一些修正是不是我們再來做對因為我現在你這個計畫既然大家都受歡迎而且也希望可以越做越多那這個標準的部分其實就應該可以要講得更清楚因為目前我們看到的標準呢其實是要可以讓讓這個我們的族群有傳承文化然後還有這個可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2963.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2991.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
原住民族文化傳承或提升原住民族社會福利這個概念其實是蠻空泛的如果你說我是做這個商場展售可是在這個商場展售如果是族人朋友自製的我們的文化產品啊等等之類的是不是某程度也可以符合呢還是我在展售的過程當中旁邊我也有對於我文化族群的介紹這個是不是就也符合這個標準是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2991.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3000.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
主委我是希望原民會這邊是不是可以更清楚的說明剛剛講委員講的那個就是屬於這個算是這個部落的託說據點但是沒關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3002.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3013.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
這個我們會跟市政府這裡再跟他們來做一個所以你的意思說現在的計畫其實要做的是遂時記憶場所的整建才符合現在這個計畫對不對目前是這樣目前是這樣所以板橋的這個因為它就是純室內而且是多會議室甚至是展售空間所以就不符合遂時記憶嘛如果這樣講的話那也可以反正標準講清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3029.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3054.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
那我覺得大家就好做事而且會往這個方向來做事那好如果你是完全是遂時計那我就照主委這個方向來繼續前進的話那各位那個主委你看一下那我們現在再往下一層如果你說剛剛那個商場展售就不管了再怎麼符合文化傳承因為他都不是遂時計那個就不符合了好那我們來看你按照遂時計 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3056.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3064.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
的這個部分你要補助的話你現在是縣市政府提報但是是鄉鎮區鄉鎮區作為單位來提出嘛然後呢1500人如果這個該區該鄉鎮裡面有超過1500位的族人朋友的人口數的話就可以優先辦理那我把新北市的原住民人口數統計出來的話大約是這樣子的數字也就是說在 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3085.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3103.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
14號五谷區之前我們是超過1500人的可是15永和區之後其實就沒有到1500人那如果我要來提報這種碎石祭儀場所的參與補助計畫的話我後面這15項15到28是不是就幾乎不可能了尤其我還要跟全國來比是 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3105.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3133.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
就機會很難了對不對好那主委我在這裡想要特別提出既然我們現在是2024到2027的計畫也就是說他應該可以隨時滾動檢討嘛那我就以這個17號的瑞芳為例主委你也常常去瑞芳啊對不對瑞芳是一個很特別的地方我們的族人朋友人口數非常的多好如果我們這裡的統計數字就算是只有1197人好了可是他的文化活動 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3134.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3155.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
他的族人活動傳承活動其實是長遠高於其他地區他一年可能就8場10場都有所以主委我是建議你是不是可以在人口數之外另外還有一個指標他的活動舉辦次數到達多少的頻率如果他的人口數雖然不到1500 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3156.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3171.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
但是他的活動次數比例相當的高高於什麼平均你們園民會可以討論嘛那我覺得這樣子的鄉鎮也應該可以提報列為優先這個申請補助區域主委你同不同意我的建議謝謝韋的建議 我想我們會 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3173.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3200.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
可以考慮吧可以考慮然後列入來好我希望原民會列入考慮啦那另外我也在想提第二個建議第二個建議是說實在的你說如果要在新北市另外找一個地方就像龍恩埔這樣的地方可以蓋那麼大那麼漂亮的碎石記憶場所其實很困難坦白講就是有困難我們剛剛那29區大概很少有地方可以再找一片這樣的樹地台灣的地尤其是北部都會去就是地少 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3201.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3228.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
所以有沒有可能我們考慮另外一種補助方式就是在某一個空間不管它是戶外或是室內它這個空間我們可以讓它多功能使用就是說原住民族和漢族和客家等等其他族群其實我們共用這個空間原民會提供補助讓這個空間可以修繕具有原住民族舉辦碎石祭儀的功能 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3229.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3250.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
原民會補助所以讓那個空間比較好可是平常還是開放是大家一般都可以使用只是在歲時季的時候讓原住民朋友可以優先那段歲時季的時間讓原住民朋友優先使用這就符合了同一個空間在一整年的時間裡面其實各族群都可以來用 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3251.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3271.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
但有一個時間我們原住民族朋友族人朋友不用那麼辛苦的去找地方嘛在大家既然原民會補助了這個地方這麼漂亮那平常在碎石祭的時候就讓原住民族人朋友優先使用這個計畫可行嗎好可行我想就是說因為現在有好幾個館也是這樣子對嘛他平常 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3271.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3288.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
是客家朋友也在用對我們人民會也可以參考實用一下研究一下好不好好主委我以上提這兩個建議希望能夠解決都市部落聚會所的問題謝謝謝謝蘇橋會委員的質詢接下來請張志文委員發言好謝謝主席各位委員各位官員大家早有請劉世芳部長請劉世芳部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3312.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3334.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
部長早部長先跟您說明一下今天我們專案報告的主題有一個有事關於全台灣的社會住宅賴總統當時在選前特別承諾在2032年要興建25萬社會住宅我跟各位報告一下25萬戶是如何來的就是蔡英文總統執政8年原本目標20萬戶興建12萬戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3337.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3362.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
所以賴清德總統他認為要比蔡英文總統多做一點所以他預計要興建13萬戶所以12加13就是25萬戶所以他在2032年才會提出興建全台灣25萬戶的社會住宅可是現在他的政策轉彎巧巧的把這個他的目標13萬戶下降到4萬戶所以我們現在今天我要幫我們的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3363.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3387.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
招委說一句話所以今天我們的專案報告的內容主題才是賴清哲總統興建13萬戶社會住宅政策無法落實之檢討所以內政部因為已經坦誠公開要從13萬戶下降到三四萬戶的社會住宅跟當時賴清哲總統的承諾相去甚遠是不是當時的評估發生了什麼問題是不是選舉的詐騙話術那是不是可以請這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3391.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3412.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
部長稍微簡單解釋一下謝謝張委員的關心第一個賴總統所提出的社宅的進度我們也都知道從蔡總統到現在為止照顧弱勢然後照顧很多年輕族群這是我們的基本方向所以事實上我剛在報告的時候已經特別提到 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3413.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3427.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
那行政院已經有提出一個全面性的檢討也就是三軌並進從社會住宅的興建包租代管跟租金補貼這三個一起來處理那當然了這裡會牽涉到我們在調整的時候怎麼樣更務實的調整跟委員報告我們從陸陸續續出來的這個租金補貼發現到說現在的社會住宅在興建的過程當中啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3436.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3465.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
其實它所需要的宿地都是集中在北北桃中這些淡黃區域也就是都市計畫密集區才是真正社會住宅需求的一個方向那既然是這個樣子的我們考慮到它的可行性還有它的立即性跟精準性所以我們在做務實性的調整那既然有務實性的調整的話那繼續盤點當中那同時我們也持續的在跟各縣市地方政府尤其是北北桃中的市政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3467.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3484.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
來協調因為在縣市長在不管是在選舉的時候或在執政的過程當中他們也非常的盡力要想要達成直接興建社會住宅那但是因為有這方面的調整那我想我們在調整的當中就是一樣希望中央政府跟地方政府大家一起來努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3485.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3512.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
好 謝謝部長所以剛剛您講的就證實應驗當時賴清德的13萬戶的社會住宅會下降成4萬多戶其實本席要在這邊講政府的政策不是不能調整可是對青年的保障跟所需要的人當時的承諾不能打折當時過去行政院明明也盤點了260處大概有多少萬戶的社會住宅的用地可是現在這個部長一句話就說這個覺得好像 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3513.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3535.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
土地太貴成效不足要來退回所以我覺得這有一點讓我本席相信我本身是支持社會住宅的可是這樣子的話是不是會您的講法會不會犧牲年輕人的居住正義那本席這邊還是要再次強調就像今天的報告裡面你們寫的就像剛剛部長所講的其實是讓我本席覺得是一種話術 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3536.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3553.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
因為在這個報告裡面你們講的預計的社會住宅的目標是100萬戶啊在第一頁裡面寫的100萬戶啊就算依照剛剛這個部長裡面講的依照住宅法第19條的規定啊你現在所興建的社會住宅大概12萬戶加上包租代管的大概10萬戶也是22萬戶啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3555.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3570.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
要達到100萬戶根本就本席而言根本這個目標就太長遠就天方夜譚所以我是不是再請部長稍微委員您的算法有錯了你解釋一下現在社會住宅的數量新建的是不是12萬戶包住斷款是不是12萬戶你在報告第一頁寫說預計100萬戶這就是一個很明顯的美化的數字那我想要請教部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3578.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3598.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
如何從20萬戶到達你的100萬戶的社會住宅報告委員這不是美化的數字我跟委員報告就是說在行政院所通過的百萬戶租屋家庭支持計畫裡面沒有你寫的是100萬戶的社會住宅啊這第一萬以100萬為目標啊百萬戶的租屋家庭的計畫我們的目標從來沒有改變過是三軌並進 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3599.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3622.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
所以我要跟部長講 這就是你的話術啦不是話術 每一個目標都有它的數目字 而且是非常務實的政治人物啊 尤其是總統 那些總統的報告是興建不是興辦啦就是要花政府的錢蓋的是政府的房子啊可是你現在啊 不管是你興建的12萬戶加上包租代管的12萬戶 才22萬戶你這裡美化說要100萬戶 中間還差了那麼多的數字啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3626.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3644.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
那我了解你的想法就是未來想要把租金補貼或甚至一些空的房子把它加入報租貸款裡面可是你的目標其實也沒辦法到達其實我記得你的目標大概是25萬戶你要達到100萬戶其實也是不可能所以我還是希望說把萬戶的租屋家庭計畫是三軌並進 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3645.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3668.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
我知道 可是我們在講的是社會住宅 依照住宅法第19條的社會住宅所以我還是要跟這個部長講就是說年輕人的未來跟有需要人的需要還是要拜託賴總統這邊這個還是要來關心他們所的需求那第二個我要請教部長就是之前在去年的11月我這邊有質詢的時候一直請教您 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3669.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3686.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
就是有關於有這個內政部預告的建築物設置太陽能光電板設置的一個標準就是未來在新建增建或改建建築面積達1000平方公尺以上的建築物要強制設太陽光電當時我在講的時候我就覺得這個法一定要多加檢討而且當時你在質詢的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3689.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3704.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
承諾說這個要再檢討也不會那麼快上路可是我們看到現在這個法案這個辦法已經公告上去了所以距離上次質詢已經兩個多月了請問部長你們後續跟經濟部開了幾次會為什麼當你都不同意的這個方案為什麼還要這麼急的公告上次您在質詢的時候我有跟您講說我們會檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3716.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3743.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
請問檢討了幾次我們檢討就是我們請我們的國土署跟經濟部負責的這個有沒有檢討有沒有書面的會議資料我是不是可以請那個代署長跟你回應一下那你聽我講完一下那我們檢討以後呢這個標準已經針對有消防公安跟委管三個部分的做充分考量而且呢我們在12月19號公佈出去的時候呢是跟經濟部一起共同公佈出去的 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3744.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3759.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
好請那個有沒有要解釋報告委員我是114年執勳我們內政部長請問你們開那8次會議是幾年開的我們在去年還是甚至前年都有開過是113年開的8次會議耶沒有沒有就陸陸續續一直開我拿到了8次會議的紀錄是113年的我這執勳是114年沒有跟部長報告錯誤啊114有開會啊開會是在113年耶 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3776.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3800.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
因為我們持續在檢討你們有沒有跟部長報告錯誤那如果你們如果真的沒有認真開會的話你們是不是要針對這個辦法是不是還要再繼續檢討針對所有的消防安全以及後續的維護應該要再檢討部長你有沒有聽到這個沒有開會就把這個辦法吵吵的公佈有開會報告委員您剛在上次在質詢的時候是特別提到我114年年底我拿到的是113年的會議紀錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3803.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3814.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
您特別提到消防的部分我也請教過消防署針對這個部分要提供他們的見解所以我們針對這個部分跟委員報告是114年12月19的時候我們跟惠童經濟部已經發布出去好 再來我要請教現在要抱怨有一個實務的問題大家都知道北市科輝達要來設總部要做這個新建3.0 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3826.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3852.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
他的屋頂是科技感的摺疊設計恐怕很難符合現在內政部所要需的設的光電板所以我要是不是請教部長市政府現在要協助揮打我們台灣可能第二個護國神山他是不是現在這個屋頂的這個是不是要送給內政部跟經濟部來做審查你們會不會因為他的設計沒有辦法裝光電板而去否築他的建築設計有沒有一些現在可以具體的回應 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3853.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3865.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
報告委員這個部分呢我們會再來跟台北市政府來共同找到一個比較好的方式因為我們都知道這個輝達的這個興建案台北市政府在第一個他需要送進到內政部跟經濟部嗎也是如火如荼的展開當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3870.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3882.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
那這個部分呢根據第六條裡面的一個這個規範呢我覺得我們可以跟台北市政府一起來協調那到底他們碰到什麼樣子的困難那如果可以協調出共識的話我想會幫助輝達在取得土地然後蓋總部的時候呢會能夠如期如值的達成 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3888.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3904.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
最後我要拜託部長就是不管是社宅的興建或是光電板的設置回答是我們台灣可能是第二個護國神山一定要多多來幫忙那我想要請教就是這個台北市政府未來相信有很多像這樣子的案子所以這光電板的設置 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3906.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3924.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
經濟部 我這邊有個新聞稿經濟部說的發電量我要跟大家公布一個數字全台灣一年可能會因為這個光電板在屋頂設置上一年要增加一百多萬片的光電板所以我還是要拜託這個部長跟經濟部要多溝通要審慎來考量 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3925.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3946.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
是 我剛跟委員報告了也是根據我們公佈出去的這個發電設備標準來講的第六條就是您剛所提到有關揮打的部分所以其實是有解方並不是沒有解方有解方 那我還是要講那部長那個未來這個條例標準還是要再審慎思考 謝謝好 謝謝張制度委員的質詢 接下來我們請李博義委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3955.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3984.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
今天這個花敬群董事長有來 請花董事長我們請花董事長那部長先稍後謝謝委員長董事長早滿一九十期的社宅1.4萬戶從蔡英文政府上來以後到賴清德總統我想花敬群董事長是社宅最重要的推手請問一下目前社宅的部分一共舉載了多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3985.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
4001.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
跟委員報告 因為是要依照興建的速度動波那到 目前 興建完成的部分還有興建中的一共舉債的多少這個基金 我們這個基金一共借了多少錢我們中央蓋的 住戶中心蓋的 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4003.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4030.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
我們蓋大概將近7萬戶 6萬9千戶那整個連帶案當時興建的費用是4,005億那我們現在估下來最後應該是3,890億左右目前這3,890億加上這些租金的收入可以付得到利息嗎利息可以抵得過嗎我們整個自償率算下來大概是64%左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4033.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4051.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
就是我們的租金收入我們扣掉必要的管理費用等等那目標是不是要百分之百當然缺口就是住宅基金補助 租屋中心所以說大概有百分之三十幾的部分目標會不會到百分之百 希望什麼意思 租金 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4052.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4081.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
我們租金收入的估計是用九成的出租率去估的九成出租率不是滿租是九成的出租率當然這都是要後續的維護因為這三千多億裡面還包含現在新建中還沒有開始收租金的部分對 全部蓋完所以在這個動態式的調整裡面同步的把包租代管拉高是一個方式讓整個社宅的基金 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4082.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4098.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
被內政部補貼的經費可以降低是不是這個意思其實這個部分是針對過往我們蓋的6萬9千戶那未來如果還要再增加興建當然還要有另外的資金的籌措和資金的補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4099.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4124.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
那都要在另外再來算那當然他就是他不是其實這都是選擇啦因為包租貸款或租金補貼他可以即刻快速滿足民眾的需求嘛不用等我蓋房子需要時間大概我以我高雄我的選區左營男子為例高雄目前總社宅規劃是接近兩萬三千戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4126.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4154.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
我們是因為台積電進駐的關係那大量的社宅也規劃在左營跟南子一共9000多戶目前有一個地方就是崇石安居都已經很多人住進去了那我也在這邊讓大家知道一下崇石它一共859戶裡面當初有2186戶來申請但是通過審核的1085戶可能它的工作地點可能它的戶籍地點等等的這一些我們所限制的因素 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4157.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4173.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
1085個合格的抽籤 中籤率是接近80%這個是歷年來社宅可能算中籤率很高很高的一個當然也有可能是因為我在自己接觸的很多從 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4174.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4199.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
領租金補貼到要搬進社宅第一個地點的關係第二個他比較新第三個可能他這樣搬過去他的租金不會造成他更大的負擔所以因為這三個因素他會搬但是這個只有80%接下來還有8000戶左營男子接下來還有8000戶那董事長也都有去看所以我想這個接下來我要請劉部長謝謝劉部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4207.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4219.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
謝謝委員好謝謝所以現在內政部調整的方向應該是說要大量的希望大量的這個包租代管可以出現所以包含我們也把這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4223.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4245.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
這個包租貸款裡面很多公益出租那還有對於出租人的這個終所稅的優惠付稅的減免等等希望有更多釋出更多的空屋來讓包租貸款的量可以增加到讓整個租屋市場可以平衡那這個部長請問一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4246.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4271.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
從去年度我們開始推包租貸款到今年度整個包租貸款的量的變化是怎樣是 謝謝委員的垂詢我想包租貸款不是去年度就是已經推了大概10年左右但是從前年去年到今年對 我們有增加了幾個賦稅優惠等等速度非常的快對 非常的快你可以說明一下數字嗎幾乎現在是10萬4千多戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4273.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4300.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
現在是10萬4千多戶在113年的時候是8萬多戶然後112年是6萬多戶所以幾乎是每年用2萬戶的這個這個趨勢在往上成長當中這2萬戶的成長其實包含包含我們在住宅法裡面可以很多的包含這個付稅的優惠那包含對於修繕的補助還有修繕的補助等等這會比蓋房子快啦會比這個住住中心蓋房子快啦所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4300.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4317.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
現在目前調節的方向而且這是民間蓋的房子不是公屋這是一般的租屋嘛對 空屋或漁屋或者是有租屋需求的市場需要的部分那部長我再問你一個問題那如果這個包租代管的速度可以這麼快的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4318.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4333.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
那如果這個住戶中心這邊跟地方政府可以配合好那還有比如說像南梓的這個中遊宿舍區還有機會蓋的話請問花董事長跟部長你們認為這個方向上你們還會不會評估下去蓋 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4334.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4360.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
第一個我們是會做彈性的調整像委員所在的左營跟南梓他未來的人口可能也會繼續的增加因為台積電的二耐米廠已經開設然後還有橋頭科學園區如果有需求的話我們一定會在包租代管跟直接興辦當中做一個最好的彈性調整但是請委員能夠了解第一個它的務實跟可及性也就是說會不會來不及 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4360.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4382.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
如果現在大家有需求的話如果現在有空屋可以拿出來出租那必須最務實現在馬上要去上班的台積電的青年或是其他的弱勢族群的話如果他要等到五年十年以後才看到房子蓋成那他大概已經轉到別的就業市場所以事實上他是非常務實跟可及性的趕快把大量的包租代管的空屋催出來嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4383.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4404.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
我們很希望走這個方向謝謝 那華董事長我請問你我剛講的那個問題如果中流宿舍那一區有機會協調好的話住住中心能不能評估來蓋那個宿舍未必是一定要蓋社宅因為它本來是中流的資產不一定是這個名字那又是可能是更新或怎麼樣是依據高雄在地的需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4405.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4428.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
其實都可以再跟市府這邊再來做溝通好 謝謝我想內政部跟住戶中心用這個比較活化比較滾動式的來趕快快速的來調整這些可以出租的這些房子我想我們這裡表達支持 謝謝謝謝李博議員接下來我們請王美惠召委 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4437.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4443.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
主席 家居組織中心花董事長請花董事長趙委長剛才您在這裡說到社會住宅我記得我剛才在7月1日來到台北開會中央開會的時候剛才你那時候發誓 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4467.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4493.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
在這個過程當中 我也要感謝你給嘉義市的機會因為中央有這個政策 嘉義市有可能去社會住宅因為每一間市的訴求 當中是不同的你知道嘉義市是一個小兒媒 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4494.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4502.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
好大的地方 但是他沒有代表他的家人他沒有代表他的工作所以在這個過程 我覺得有擔當的重點就是覺得我們的政策說 但是每個人的訴求不一樣改進的 我們就要改進 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4523.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4528.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
像我們有時候跟我們的部長說的時候部長說 啊 因為嘉義市跟很多縣市的大都市都沒工這我可以接受喔所以在這個過程當中他說要新建的是不是可以有工廠出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4549.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4570.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
包租貸款 今天我身為嘉義市的民意代表我就先跟你說嘉義市的需要因為嘉義市有安寮好市 有中好市 博愛第一 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4571.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4582.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
我要安居在這三天的當中 重聽五百號若沒有我們中央的政策 我相信我們自己再沒有這三天的社會主宰可以幫助年輕人的訴求和弱勢的訴求在這幾天內看到中央給自己機會 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4599.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4605.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
但是在整天白色靠我的時候還是靠我們服務處說你們的政策還在變啊我說是怎麼說他說跟你們說要去社會住宅跟現在說這麼多是要跟他一起希望跟他一起持政府的努力在日深暗示下有一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4629.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4630.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
主來最輕微 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4631.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4640.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
他在市政府也很快會開胃了在這裡我要請教我們黨首長有的外面的風聲不然說怎麼會有呢我們是要挑戰每一個官司的訴求不一樣我已經說三次了每一個官司的訴求不一樣所以第二次我告訴你那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4661.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4674.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
是不是你如果討論也要來那裡討論才對因為最重要的假期期沒有這個我再跟你講過 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4675.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4679.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
沒有工作在那裡所以董事長你是不是跟我討論現在我說的那個未來要怎麼做因為我相信如果經過教育市也好教育市鄉親也好年輕人去教育市吃套路也好都有看到我們社會住宅漸漸的一定會完成所以董事長拜託 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4706.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4720.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
我拜託一下我們日升街那裡要如何處理來回答一下感謝委員對我們租賂中心跟我們社財政策一直的支持我們現在過去期我們現在有安療有中和部外其實我先跟委員報告安療好事今年就會遭遇氣候 今年的氣候就遭遇差不多第四季就開始公告遭遇 當然 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4734.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4745.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
委員一直在說啦 第四案我們現在日新安居啦 別住來住 住來住像旁邊這樣日新安居 其實對政府現在應該也是繼續在會議中不說放棄 現在沒有了這樣當時剛才你說的就是跟外面所煩惱的所擔委會是不一樣是是是不是中央放棄說不去社會住宅喔是每個縣市有的 沒關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4763.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4765.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
會想說年輕人還可以有家庭長大跟他的官司不一樣有他的工作很多啊他可以包住大館啊但是自己家一定要有社會住宅對自己家來說80人那麼多啦是啊 現在我們按理好是今年第四季開始遭遇 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4786.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4790.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
我們不需要看姓姓的狀況因為姓姓很多現在提早時間安排我們就需要從早安排 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4798.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4806.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
在這裡這樣就是當時聽說這個日升街不是沒辦法去是我們這個地市區的寮屋看遭遇的情形給我們一部分自己市政府也是照顧我的家是不是這樣 是嘛再來 因為那個單位位就是說實在啦我們的北省 我們的少年街 我們的弱勢 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4826.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4853.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
要去檢查去照顧啦因為有時候說要補助他的出水我們說實在的我們這也是說你趕快在這個地方有時候一天兩天你在台北上班不一定兩天後在其他地方去上班他就不一樣的訴求啦不一樣的需要啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4853.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4858.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
在這 我也問問當事長他剛才本省說的 再邀請一下來 請原住民主委主委在這本省這時候時間漸漸要到了 我要跟你說我們這個內牆安全的訓練是在12月底的時候 我們定期 中間要到7500 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4881.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4896.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
五百多人差不多有四千五千人左右有嘛有在有的當中你們在正當安全受訓的時候有五十個五十個去啦九十八個拿到受訓是 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4901.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4907.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
在這個過程當中 主委我是不是要跟你說你若看有四五千人有內娟在過程當中有內娟跟有婚姻過也是抓到遭廢棄 讓她的同行大大事 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4925.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4940.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
所以這個訓練非常重要民生是我們的專業 因為你們說的我們說的是訓練安全 訓練有多少錢你知道嗎 主委是到現在還沒過啦 我覺得這個錢對於我們住民來說是非常重要你知道訓練裡面的錢有多少嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4953.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4954.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
大概40萬 七十萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4979.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4984.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
在這裡面有這件事要好好去訓練 好好去用因為我希望 不能夠發生這個問題我們應該要鼓勵所有有內疚的人都出來訓練自己 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4999.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
5000.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
我們要擴大訓練啦 擴大訓練主委 這是重點啦 要擴大訓練啦因為有4千5人 有肌肉有腸的有內腸的 所以你說要擴大訓練 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
5018.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
5020.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
謝謝王美惠召委 接下來我們請黃婕惟發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
5048.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5051.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
好 謝主席 我們先請原民會曾主委也請曾主委我先走 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5058.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5080.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
好 主委早先跟你請教一下1月5號這個原住民身份法規定的兩年補正的登記的期限就已經到期了那因為其實有看到說如果這個過去因為單獨監護然後取得身份的族人1月5號之前如果沒有改父或母的這個原住民的姓並列名字的話他的原住民的身份有可能遭到廢止 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5081.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5109.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
那我擔心的是說全台灣有多少族人因為在1月5號之前來不及或者是他漏掉了沒有去登記去補正那面臨到廢止的風險請問現在有多少的族人面臨到這樣子的問題謝謝委員我們有精準的掌握到大概是4000多個人其實蠻多的那我們也已經通知他們儘早來申辦那2月5日 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5110.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5112.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
我們還會再次的敦促我們當事人 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5114.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5141.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
來辦理那我在這裡還是跟委員講即便喪失原住民的身分仍然可以重新取得是的我知道可以恢復但我現在問題來了這就是我要請教主委的在廢止到恢復中間有沒有身分中斷而影響他生活各方面權益的問題我在這邊舉幾個例子例如說如果他的這個族人他身分中斷了但是他想要考的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5142.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5171.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
2026年上半年的公務員的考試或者是各種升學的考試或者是他要申請的是跟原住民相關的社福的補助會不會因為這個身份的中斷而影響他的加分資格影響他補助的資格等等以上這些生活各個面向跟委員報告會真的會就是說如果這段時間剛好有考試或什麼他剛好上市原住民的身份就真的會中斷 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5171.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5194.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
所以這就是我要問的啦這個因為這樣子的中間有一個空窗期導致他可能很多包括我剛剛講的社福補助欸包括他考試的資格欸這個加分的這個可能落差來回就非常大那這個對他的生活來說都是非常大的影響所以這4000多個人主委接下來怎麼處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5195.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5213.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
我想我們都有密切來跟他們來做聯繫因為這個當下回復這個原住民身後是很快的你只要去登記馬上就可以回復所以我們現在不管是我們的同仁我們也拜託縣市的一些相關的原住民處還有內政部的副政事務所 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5217.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5233.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
趕快來通知會上司原住民生活的這些主任我們盡全力來協助他們好 這個要拜託主委因為我們當初立這個新的法就是其實用意並不是說要讓他失去這一些資格的廢紙 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5234.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5249.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
而是希望他們可以並列他們的族名然後來重新彰顯族群的平等嘛這是我們當時的精神那在這邊我也要提醒主委一件事情我最近看到兩個例子一個是2024年底台中市北區有一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5249.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5272.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
泰雅族的族人他想要為新生兒來登記他的族名結果承辦人員說他的族名不在族譜名譜上面就拒絕他了那當事人他的說法是說他想要融合泰雅族跟布農族的奶奶的文化的意涵然後把他的拼寫是有融合在一起的結果承辦人員就刁難他就說這個不是泰雅族的名字 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5272.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5293.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
所以就被拒絕了另外一個例子是去年的年底有一個賽德克族的人也是去護鎮要辦這個族名的表列然後結果承辦人員也是拿著手冊翻啊翻說你這個名字有沒有拼錯啊然後說他的手冊上面沒有賽德克族的這個參考所以百般的刁難這位賽德克族的族人喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5294.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5309.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
所以我在這邊要講的是既然我們希望彰顯他們的使用的名字是可以尊重他們這個族群本身那結果承辦人員他們好不容易說對我很願意去把我的族名表列在上面結果承辦人員百般的刁難 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5310.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5333.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
我跟委員報告這其實是戶政事務所人誤會了原住民的這個傳統名字不是只有列在那個族族的參審所以剛好藉這個今天我們內政部也在這邊也拜託部長然後跟我們原民會回去可以做橫向的溝通讓我們第一線各縣市的戶政在遇到這件事情的時候不要去刁難族人的族名表列 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5334.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5339.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
好我們會持續來辦這個訓練好謝謝主委那最後一點時間我們請內政部劉部長我在這邊簡單的提一下那我還是認為蓋設宅跟這個包租代管跟租金補貼是沒有衝突的 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5350.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5371.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
所以我也希望說在補足這個蓋設宅很慢的這個漫長的過程當中我們用包租代管的方式可以儘速的進到市場來增加這個空餘屋提供給租屋族的這個數量所以這三管齊下我認為是並行的而不是說做了這個就不做那個委員您講得非常正確我們就是朝這個三軌齊進一起來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5376.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5402.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
對所以最後呢我想要跟部長提醒一下因為其實包租代管已經上路近10年嘛那目前也努力的清出了大概10.48萬戶這樣子的數量但是呢目前手上的工具到底夠不夠因為就部長的盤點我們目前未來的目標是希望再把這個91萬戶裡面再繳出37萬戶不是不是我想不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5402.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5412.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
就是我們從北北桃中裡面找出現在低度利用的空餘屋就是精準的部分是在這個地方是37.5萬但是未來達成數目不會是這個數目大概譬如說可能以1萬2萬3萬慢慢往上升是這樣子的方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5420.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5448.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
沒有那麼快但是包租代管業者現在的這個增加的數目是非常的快已經有達到131家對那這就是我要講這也是我每一次都一定會提醒的就是到底誘因是什麼因為像之前我們在討論說是不是他們的這個給他們有足夠的稅賦的減免啊然後其他方面有各式各樣的誘因讓他們願意進到包租代管的市場可是目前看起來我擔心的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5449.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5466.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
這樣的速度並不夠快好我們會來精進包括委員提的建議案如果在財稅的負擔上面不管是用這個棍子或者蘿蔔我們可以齊齊頭並進因為我們也不希望太多空餘屋是的然後還來就是說這個房子他要不要進入修繕補貼的方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5468.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5489.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
因為那個委員非常重視的像老宅延壽的部分也許我們也可以把他納到裡面去因為老宅延壽本來就是針對這個房屋要很健康才可以提供給包租貸款業者來使用對謝謝謝謝部長說明那我覺得對年輕人來說其實就是要現在馬上可以入住夠方便最好在市中心又夠便宜品質又夠好這個才是對年輕人最直接的幫助 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5492.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5514.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
所以這三管齊下如果可以最快速達到這個目標的對年輕人來說我就是馬上在市中心可以入住就學就業都方便所以就是包租代管沒錯目前看起來也是像桃園新北的速度非常的快增加的速度非常的快對那我希望這個就要必須要加速啦趕快請這些空餘物最好這37萬戶都試出來是最好啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5515.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5522.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
那最後一個小提醒喔這個租金補貼最近我接到很多的陳情啦就是說因為之前的條件太不設限了然後審查過寬了或者是說審查太簡便了導致說現在在跟民眾追討這個租金的補貼 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5531.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5546.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
所以現在還是有接到一些民怨啦就是說租金補貼的用意很好那你們當初條件就設好那審查的不要說初審到後面複審最後又要跟你把租金補貼要回來是 報告委員我們是跟地方政委一起來合作 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5546.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5575.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
那地方政府在處理的過程當中也許他們的考量跟中央不一樣那中央的話會透過這個財產總歸戶或稅務總歸戶的方式或者是他有沒有真正在住在那個房子裡面所以事實上會有所謂的議領有的時候是時間差那議領的部分呢我們也可以採取說如果他現在的經濟負擔沒有那麼快的話會用這個分期付款的方式來處理那全國的議領數量大概是1.3%左右這個部分呢我們還是可以跟地方政府一起來合作 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5576.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5591.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
這個當然我知道這個有一些行政上的落差但是我還是希望如果接下來要精進的話不要你們就第一時間把條件都設好跟地方也都講好民眾怎麼樣的條件可以領不要說到之後他他根本就不知道他一領 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5591.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5609.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
因為有時候跟房東沒有提供這些他的可能是他的租屋的證明等等的有的時候就是要身份自己改變譬如說他有自己的房子或者他已經不是學生等等這些所以這個真的要拜託希望接下來不要再發生我們會跟地方政府一起來精進好 謝謝謝謝委員謝謝黃婕委員的質詢接下來我們請張宏祿委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5626.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5631.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
來我先請原住民族的主委請曾主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5635.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5658.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
委員長 來 主委剛剛也有委員問到原住民身分法這個1月5號前這個問題你剛聽到你講還有4000多人還有4000多人當然啦 時間過後呢他還是可以恢復這是沒有錯可是這4000多人我覺得人數也不多那為什麼無法一一通知到他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5661.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5684.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
我們都有書面但是就是有的譬如說他不在國內或者是有一些就是說他的戶籍地可是他經常的時間不是在戶籍地都是在譬如到外面去到都會去來工作的這個我們也會協助我們也拜託公所協助來催請他們趕快來申請這個我為什麼會特別 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5688.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5705.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
你說你除了在國外之外其實4000多人我覺得人數不多我們其實你透過工作 透過族群透過我們部落其實都可以掌握我覺得這一個我認為應該 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5711.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5736.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
把它做成一個例子以後如果有類似的情形應該要及早通知我覺得這不困難才4000多人而已我覺得這個為什麼我要這樣特別請教你我們平埔原住民族群身分法的草案也通過了 對不對未來平埔族原住民他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5737.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5743.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
會不會也有類似他要恢復他的身分會不會有同樣的問題會出現 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5746.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5774.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
這個就是說平埔族的部分就是一開始先登記登記完之後才會面臨這樣的問題對 不管不管不管那個過程是怎麼樣總有一天會遇到這個問題吧是會不會會會嘛好 平埔族原住民遇到這個問題的話會不會比現在的這個更複雜會 所以我們及早要藉這次的經驗看怎麼樣就是說來跟這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5776.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5799.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
各平埔原住民的這個他們將來這個審議委員會我們也會透過怎麼樣的一個宣傳讓他們也能夠在都在期限內來登記我跟你講現在4000多人都沒有辦法了到時候平埔族更多 對不對那你應該以這一次的事情你去檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5801.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5823.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
是怎麼樣沒有辦法通知然後是怎麼樣你至少要有一個範例出來然後以後如果有這個至少不會從零開始我們會整理一個SOP跟委員報告就是說未來是怎麼樣來因應這個事情你們現在有SOP了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5825.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5841.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
我們現在已經在做你們現在有SOP了嗎我們現在跟內政部正在合作包含地方政府還有公所跟護所來建立這個SOP之後我們會把這個SOP建立起來所以現在還沒有嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5844.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5856.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
所以我說要以這次的例子趕快去防範於未來不然未來這個問題我覺得會比這個我認為是百倍不值 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5859.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5888.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
而且你們跟內政部啊尤其是跟婦政事務所要緊密的配合開會啦像剛剛主委你說這個婦所人員了解不清楚其實我說真的我也要幫婦所同仁說一句話不是他了解不清楚啦我不認為是他了解不清楚啦婦政事務所人員不會做特別去刁難是因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5890.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5919.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
兩個單位你那正部跟園民會你們兩個單位你們沒有把該有的那個範例範本給他 給他說清楚如果有說清楚我不認為第一線的婦生事務所同仁會這樣為什麼咧他這樣只是找他自己麻煩他一次可以辦好的他變成要辦好多次我不相信婦所的同仁會自己找自己麻煩所以我的意思是說多把它建立成範本或什麼人家一看就很清楚這樣可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5920.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5941.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
可以啦我們可以做這樣的修正那給你們時間做啦我也不認為這個三個月之內你可以做得出來這個SOP我也不相信啦但我覺得半年的時間應該夠吧好 可以可以啦半年 努力那就給你們半年的時間去研究一下好不好好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5947.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5959.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
謝謝張鋒祿委員的質詢 接下來我們請麥玉珍委員發言主席好 有請內政部部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5971.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5992.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
部長好想要請教一下我們賴清德總統上任後政府公開就是發布新聞說明確宣布以盤點227處國公有的土地結合老舊的住舍就是改建 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5994.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
6005.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
可新建約9萬戶的社會住宅但現在內政部卻改口說社會住宅用地取得困難我要請教一下是當初盤點的錯誤還是我們賴總統 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
6011.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6031.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
對社宅的政見真是跳票這227處的土地現在在哪裡另外行政院過去也明確指出在市地重花於區段的徵收中保留3至5%的土地共給就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6032.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6057.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
社會住宅使用這是政府過去用來支撐社宅用地的不缺這重要的政策工具這是政策現在還在不在今三年全國市地重劃案件中有多少實際的保留社宅用地部長請你回答一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6058.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6079.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
謝謝委員的指教 我跟委員報告我們的百萬租屋家庭支持計畫的目標從來沒有改變過現在我們是在可行性還有精準性還有即時性上面做務實的調整跟變動也不是外界所說的社會住宅從此不蓋 不是這個樣子 委員可能誤解 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6080.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6101.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
那您所提到的227處的部分是在113年的時候那個時候國土署全部盤點所有可能的這個土地那盤點出來去除掉已經招標跟不可行的基地還有各機關有提供這個閒置用地的話到昨天為止一共是235處是增加的 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6103.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6120.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
但是我們所謂的百萬租屋家庭支持計畫最主要我們發現到在精華土地也就是說在稀缺性極高的淡黃區土地裡面才是真正年輕人或者是社會住宅需要有的這個土地的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6121.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6148.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
所以我們現在呢所處理的這個部分改採叫做多元興辦那多元興辦包括都市計畫的變耕 都耕分回協商使用土地的地上物遷移等等這些那預計呢在115年到116年呢優先興辦的大概會有40處左右那這40處呢就會是分布在我剛剛委員報告的所謂的稀缺性的土地可能就是分布在北北桃中這四個地塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6149.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6174.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
好所以呢你說這樣子的話的資料可以一份給我但是呢我要提醒的盤點不是許願清單是說政府對人民的承諾如果是227處的土地不能使用就不能蓋的話就不能排成但是因為我們要的就是說當初這個政見就是要拿來 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6176.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6191.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
不是騙票的所以我們是希望真正要來去蓋正式的要個興建如果答案沒有我們就不是事實所以我們希望就不是說土地不見了是政府選擇不做我們是怕的是這個所以呢我們現在部長說這個要蓋很多但是我們沒有看到就沒有看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6202.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6214.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
所以政府在我們現在已經完成12.2萬戶了怎麼會沒有呢那是我們的政策方針實際用在就是現在可受惠的對象還是100萬為主所以說我要你把這個詳細的資料要給我們因為你自己在 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6221.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6227.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
在網路上說我們是困難所以我才說針對你要講的是困難我們有挑戰但是我們在解決這方面的問題而且有提出精進的方案希望能夠即時性的來補助需要這個社會主宰或者需要租金補貼的對象所以你們是說實際上用租金就是補貼包住代管這些取代就是興建社會助展沒有取代 它是更多元 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6245.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6255.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
但是說把這樣子的承諾的新建住宅社宅改成就是大規模的補貼啦所以請教我們的租屋補貼真實等於社會住宅嗎沒有等於嘛對不對所以我們希望說你說怎麼樣去大規模來去補貼所以說不等於社會住宅所以委員你希望租金補貼停止嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6271.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6274.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
我現在不是說 社會住宅是政府直接提供可負擔還有品質的 穩定租期給我們的公共住宅但是社會住宅蓋的速度確實不夠快就是能平移房租改善房屋的品質但是租金補貼只是把錢丟進市場 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6296.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6308.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
無法確保就是租屋的品質可能也會推高就是房租所以請部長清楚回答是內政部這邊承不承認租屋補貼無法期待社會住宅無法期待 報告委員租屋補貼是什麼意思租金補貼還是包租代管 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6324.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6346.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
社會住宅無法取代 在社會住宅法裡面直接新蓋跟包住代管都是屬於我們現在要的是新建社會住宅所以你講這一些我希望說我們是租不住這一些的話是不等於社會住宅所以說社會住宅我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6349.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6373.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
包租代管沒辦法取代社會住宅你承認嗎包租代管我剛跟委員報告過在我們的住宅法裡面它也是屬於社會住宅的一種那當然如果用樹地來興建的話我們也必須要考慮它的地段是不是在稀缺的土地上面也就是說現在有需求的這些我只要問你說施設是不能取代的但是我們現在看到的就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6378.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6380.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
沒有那麼多說你們承諾你們是在選舉的時候在說有227處是你們已經盤點了所以你們已經盤點了所以我們才要問說盤點了到現在我們總統已經一年半了我們沒有看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6398.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6401.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
所以呢盤點的地方是錯誤嗎所以我們是說我們沒辦法期待但是事實上社宅的目標就是被下修了嘛補貼預算不斷的擴大 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6415.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6421.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
所以新建的社宅核定數據是零所以這個不是並行而是說用補貼掩蓋不蓋社宅我們不接受而且國際上也沒有這樣子的國家就是把包住代管作為社宅的 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6434.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6456.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
的社會住宅我希望就是不要偷換概念所以你說的剛才有講說什麼很多空屋請教我們的部長現在到底有沒有掌握全國社會住宅的實際需求還有答案其實大家都知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6457.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6474.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
是零 沒有中央政府到今天為止從來沒有堅持說任何全國性的社會住宅的需求登記的機制也就是說政府不是因為已經掌握需求判斷 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6475.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6490.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
會沒有人租而是完全沒有需求的資料的狀況下先下結論說可能就是沒有人租這不是謹慎的評估喔這是說設建後再 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6491.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6504.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
這話吧再更幻妙的是我們的部長長期拒絕說全國社會住宅需求登記平台讓真正需求被關在黑箱裡報告委員 我們上次修法已經通過了喔就是黑箱暫住不蓋社宅的理由我們要的是承諾也要實現不是用講的再到選舉的時候說227處到現在我們都沒有看到是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6520.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6533.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
沒有 報告委員 您剛才還跟我說取資料我跟您報告的時候 我們新辦事實處1.1萬戶你叫我給你資料啊 就表示說這個資料有在啊然後我們有說連一戶都還沒核定就是我已經告訴你就是有這麼說就是取得土地難 蓋也難所以現在你講的 還有我們網路找的也沒有網路上面不一定是事實 請看我們的記者會比較好所以你看記者會說的嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6549.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6567.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
所以我們記者會那個所有的全部的這個方式三軌併進都講得非常清楚包括我們今天的報告案請委員能夠這個把這個報告案能夠詳實的看一下裡面的數據那我們會根據委員的垂詢跟批評指教的部分來做精進謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6569.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6584.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
好如果你是說是這樣子的話我希望說我們現在因為我看到你新聞又說什麼全國有90萬空屋所以不需要再蓋社宅這也是你說的所以我請教一下91萬戶的空屋今天才出現嗎我們在調整戶數報告委員我們在調整他的戶數 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6595.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6600.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
空屋的成長率已經為10%了為什麼過去可以說要蓋社宅現在說拿空屋來當理由不蓋如果政府真的認為空屋可以為租金供給的話請教一下我們的空屋稅在哪裡就是囤房稅改革為什麼是 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6622.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6633.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
避重就輕 沒有任何的制度 逼屋主撕出房租房子讓我們就是不能只靠補助政府要從哪裡編出10萬戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6637.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6650.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
就是供給人民 我們要的是承諾要的是政府 要我們賴清德的承諾要的是執行的 精準的方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6652.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6666.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
而且我們的目標從來沒有改變過我們也沒有說不蓋社會住宅只是我們在調整它的戶數希望能夠全部集中在北北桃中這些精華土地剛剛也跟委員報告過全國都有需要在蔡英文總統的學問簿裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6672.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6678.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
全台灣已經蓋過一輪了所以我們不能說在這個當藉口現在我們又看到了又提出說可移動住宅廣大的包租代碗我們看到的是這樣因為你新聞也講了剛才有講 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6697.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6704.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
我現在跟你講的是說我們看到的數據會說話所以數據不會說謊但是政府會說謊所以我們希望賴清德上任 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6714.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6731.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
他的證件要去承諾要去承諾因為我們沒有看到任何給新的社會住宅新建案卻不斷的就是擴大的補貼改名詞 包住代管 充數這不是調整的 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6734.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6738.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
政策這是多元新辦社會住宅 報告委員合乎住宅法合乎住宅法的規範這是政府自己的社宅目標被砍掉嘛這不是方法的問題喔 是選擇以市長低頭所以我們希望希望是說要對人民不要 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6758.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6784.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
不要騙人 真的 人家要大所以政府呢 現在在社宅政策已經不是能力的問題也不是赤裸裸的是政見挑票所以呢 我們選前要蓋選後要實現 我們要求就是這樣子而已所以呢 不是替自己找理由不是要替自己找理由內政部要停止用股票的 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6788.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6807.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
包租貸款來掩蓋就是社會住宅所以委員你認為包租貸款不要推是嗎要勇敢來去面對社會住宅沒有真正的承諾沒有真正的實現委員你否定包租貸款政策嗎我現在說社會住宅 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6809.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6835.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
我剛剛有提到包租貸款也是社會住宅的一種在我們住宅法裡面18條跟19條講得非常的清楚沒辦法去等於也沒辦法取代社會住宅沒辦法等於也沒辦法取代所以只是另外一個政策沒辦法等於也沒辦法取代社會住宅你不要拿這個來欺騙我們的人民我們沒有欺騙我們更務實是我們的需要我們非常務實跟精準 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6836.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6847.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
需要就是要承諾要去真正的要人民看到的承諾不是只是掩蓋以上謝謝謝謝麥真委員謝謝劉部長接下來我們請黃建斌召委 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6861.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6885.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
好 謝謝主席 本席歡和一下情緒我們有請一下原民會主委請原民會曾志勇 曾主委委員好主委早 早安 早安各位 今天是我們原民會的業務報告本席要跟你翻一件對台東許多原住民鄉親非常嚴重的一個警訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6887.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6915.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
現在如果很清楚全國55個鄉鎮原住民鄉鎮裡面台東縣就佔了15個那尤其這個台東的21萬人口裡面有將近三分之一大概就是8萬人口左右是我們原住民的人數那高居全國第三高那不過這一次這個中央政府將地方政府的財力集資做出一個非常不合理的這個調整會造成未來許多原住民鄉鎮嚴重的衝擊 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6916.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6920.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
那主委 主委你知道台東縣以往都是第幾級財政登基 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6921.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6945.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
我所知應該不是第一集啦主委你常說要計劃嘛我們常說一直來都第五集嘛然後結果最近公布的一個名次是第一一次將第五集調到第一集這個跟首都台北是同樣列為自籌款最高的這個等級主委這不是升等這個是城中的負擔這個也不是獎勵這個是變相的懲罰 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6948.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6958.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
本學為什麼講變相懲罰我們中央公告這個財力第一級的縣市包括台北市新竹縣市然後台東縣台北市一年的稅收大概是1800億 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6959.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6980.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
那新竹縣是有科學園區作為重要的財源的來源那台東縣的人口大概是21萬年稅收大概是12億這麼大的差距結果還放在同一個集區裡面那更嚴重的是未來我們中央政府可以依據這樣的財政分配的分級的理由減少對台東的補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6981.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
7004.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
那對我們台東未來要推動地方建設社會福利還要都要負擔更高的自籌款嗎那這個部分本席在收到這個消息我們也馬上邀請我們台東縣的副縣長王智慧副縣長我們立刻到台北跟我們主計處來抗議那我們必須要重新來檢討台東的這個財力市我們也必須要請 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
7005.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
7016.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
主基礎要含穩給中央各部會跟所有機關未來在受理台東補助的各項計畫的時候要考慮第一個台東的偏遠性第二個是我們原住民地區應該從寬來認定補助標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
7019.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7034.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
主要我們原住民我們原住民族委員會裡面有一個就是那個原民會對所屬機關還有對地方政府補助的這個原則這個原民會對地方補助這個計畫型的補助啊會依照地方的這個財力其實不同而給不同的補助對吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7035.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7052.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
那最高的比例是不能超過90%對不對那如果財力第一級的地方政府除非符合相關的情況不然是願不愧是不會補足本席這樣講對不對我跟委員報告不管這個縣市是這個它的這個分級是第幾 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7053.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7075.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
鹽住民鄉永遠是脆弱的一個部分你即便是第一級他對鹽住民鄉的照顧一定也是比較脆弱所以我們對鹽住民鄉的補助不會因為等級而有什麼特別的差別就是說我們一樣就是仍然是以照顧鹽鄉照顧自己的族人為主 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7076.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7101.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
所以主委你的意思是未來不管台東縣幾級我們還是比照原住民鄉鎮的補助標準對不對台東縣的15個會跟其他40個原住民鄉鎮都一樣嘛對不對謝謝主委 主委其實這個大家都很擔心因為你看台東縣16個鄉鎮有15個都是原住民鄉鎮你這些鄉鎮長他情何以堪未來他只要想到他的計畫型補助我要自籌款拉到這麼高我以後怎麼敢再送計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7104.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7117.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
你看那個原本可以申請到98%接下來可能都沒有得申請未來他要推計畫就直接被刷掉因為這個其實就把它刷掉嘛這個是非常不公平的那我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7119.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7142.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
我們再看到一份資料就是說本期這邊辦公室統計說過去三年台東縣各鄉鎮跟園民會申請計劃計劃性的補助高達400個項目那我們總計的金額是36億如果按照我們園民園民園民會的補助標準這個金額是不是如果我說的照剛才講的如果是用一級的看他不是是腰斬他是所剩無幾的各位主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7143.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7158.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
所以台東縣是中央民國很重要的原住民鄉鎮我們也自詡是南島文化的發源地那如果說未來如果原民會的態度不支持我們的話我們台東縣原住民鄉鎮都不會被照顧到也不能去重視所以在這邊本席要跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7159.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7181.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
因為這邊提出兩個具體的要求第一個就是我們園民會必須去檢討現行的財力集資的補助標準如果中央仍然不願意調整台東的財力集資那園民會針對第一極限制中的台東縣就必須考量原住民鄉鎮發展還有台東縣自有稅收不足的情況放寬經費上的補助的比例就是剛才主委你承諾的這些事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7182.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7201.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
那另外對我們台東縣15個原住民鄉鎮的權益標準要比照其他40個原住民鄉鎮那第二個我們原住民民會在參加參與其他部會的這個計劃審查的時候也必須明確的跟其他部會來表達就是說未來必須考慮台東縣地理的條件交通劣勢還有我們的稅都不足加上是原住民地區 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7202.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7224.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
因此計劃性的補助款應該要全力來協助避免造成城鄉的差異過大衝擊到我們原鄉的這個城鎮的發展那以上兩點也請主委來承諾會跟我們相關單位來強力爭取並且在一週內提供本市資料提供本市辦公室主委好 會我們會照委員的建議謝謝主委的支持馬上就謝謝謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7237.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7241.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
謝謝 謝謝曾主委 謝謝黃金平召委接下來我們請吳啟明委員發言好 召委一位同仁請我們駐駐中心我們董事長請駐駐中心花董事長委員長 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7260.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7274.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
好 早 發董事長針對我們的社會住宅其實社會住宅這個政策是非常的正確所以說在我們包含我們在都會區真的接受度都非常高大家都非常期待 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7276.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7303.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
所以我認為說你說包租代管其實包租代管的政策不是永續我還是認為社會住宅的興建來推動是一個正確的方向因為怎麼說呢 我跟你說現在很多年輕人買房子買不去因為期待是什麼就是要自己有房子你說除了社會住宅畢竟都幾十年了還有尤其處個心我說在我們的頂部 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7305.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7318.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
頂部我們這個頂府社區頂府社區你如果去看去到非常好啊 一千多號啊但是你有多少年紀多少才買房子買不去的人大家都莫名其妙 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7319.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7335.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
包含我們在內湖的蟲瓦區我們土層蟲瓦區這新北市收起的也是都造成轟動因為很多在無處的人他們都期待說社會主宰並不是包租代管 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7336.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7359.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
所以說社會住宅會升建這個腳步 一定要持續尤其你說市的土地 我們有很多我們的公有土地很多過去 這就是你們的錯誤過去很多重劃區 重劃區的比例要提高啊我們的重劃區比例 都是在地方政府將剩餘的土地來做公開標搜 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7362.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7385.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
你說過去你那時候所制定的我們的社會住宅要推動來比例把它提高你一個從外區 能夠啟動多少土地 多少的社會住宅因為我們明明知道這個社會住宅在外面在年輕人他們所寄託的就是要擁有一個社會住宅 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7387.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7413.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
所以你說包租貸款其實包租貸款因為我們台灣的空汙率你空汙率好 你要囤積一些空汙我們政府的政策就是要打起這些炒房嘛打起這些空汙嘛你空汙率起的空汙那麼多你又不需要輸出你就給它加稅嘛這才可以去耗資 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7415.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7431.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
社會住宅這個腳步一定不能停是不是由董事長你來做說明謝謝委員對整個住宅政策的支持其實住宅政策本來就是多元價值多元的方案在處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7432.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7449.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
大家在意關心的重點可能會隨著進度而會有改變會有調整或檢討像說因為我們現在就是說需要社宅在蓋所以很多人在期待蓋好的社宅很忙的當然那個力量很大 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7450.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7479.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
所以說怎麼樣在現階段多一點可以來直接提供幫助得到的數量所以說租金補貼或包租貸款它就會是比較快讓期待得到政府幫助的年輕人或一般的家庭能夠優先所以說這就是一個現階段的思考和調整過去早期因為連社宅都沒有也沒有租金補貼也沒有包租貸款大家可能是說你有什麼都好 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7480.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7494.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
當我們走到這裡走了這些年來其實我覺得在這個時間點做一次整體性的再思考和檢討然後再來看蓋完的社宅可能他申請的住戶數有沒有因為我 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7495.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7513.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
很多的租金補貼了可能那邊的壓力會小一點點我覺得這都是大家可以互相思考和檢討的地方好 董事長我是要了解說金格市長是跟年輕人他們的需求他們的願望就是說能取得一個社會住宅 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7514.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7534.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
所以說社會自在這個需求是絕對比包住貸款 絕對比租金補貼 誘因還要大所以說在這個部分 你要做個整個調整 未來你的沖化區 你的企的土地 一定要比例把它提高 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7535.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7544.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
是比例提高 我們的用意就是要去社會主宰嘛這可以徹底開發社會主宰的問題當然 當然 感謝委員一直跟我們支持啦其實我們這補訪也很認真在做好 感謝 謝謝來 請我們原住民我們主委請鎮主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7558.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7572.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
好 主委好因為原住民在我的選區裡面原住民的比例在新北市是非常的高那非常的高我發現原住民的語言現在都已經斷層因為年輕的你說學校的客戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7576.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7605.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
所教導的出來未必跟他實際上在家裡家裡的一些老長輩的教的速度應該會比較快那北斜還是提倡說我們多辦一些活動讓我們原住民的小朋友大家都能來接觸你看啊一些我們的活動的話小朋友他們接觸的領悟率會比較高所以未來我還是希望說我們原住民多來辦一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7607.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7628.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
大型的活動讓我們原住民的小朋友大家能接觸這學習的語言應該比在平常學校的課程應該還會吸收的快是不是這樣對 因為很多這個語言還是要經常被使用就是說那如果透過比大型的活動不管是歌 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7629.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7649.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
歌謠 不管是舞蹈 不管是一些這個還有戲曲 戲曲的比賽我們都有在做這樣的一個比賽前果啦 有分初賽 結賽 都有啦希望就是說我們持續要辦這樣的活動啦讓小朋友還有學校的學生持續來使用自己的母語 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7650.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7678.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
對 因為我看我們三峽那個紀惠所也蓋好了那未來我們還是要去推動一些活動不能說蓋了後來我們就丟給地方政府我們中央還是要介入還是要多辦個活動因為我們在我們三峽這個地方還有我們土城我們原住民的部落是人口最多還有樹林嘛那未來我們還是積極的來做規劃好不好好好 謝謝謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7685.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7698.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
謝謝吳啟明委員的質詢 接下來我們請徐宇珍委員謝謝主席 我們請劉世芳 劉部長請劉部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7707.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7728.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
委員好部長好部長您在1月初的時候有陪同我們前總統蔡英文去參觀了這個中和的社會住宅而當時呢也發文這個蔡總統也發文強調社宅是國家必須承擔的責任而且賴清德總統競選時也明確的承諾要落實居住正義 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7729.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7749.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
所以要在蔡英文政府12萬戶的基礎上再加碼興建13萬戶到達25萬戶結果大概在您陪同蔡英文主席之後她也肯定她也相信未來中央政府會繼續的一起來推動社會住宅跟居住支持的政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7751.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7770.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
但是一個禮拜後您就提出了這25萬戶的社宅可能會跳票因為接下來可能會越蓋越少所以要請問部長賴清德總統競選時所承諾的這個25萬戶社會住宅的目標截至今日為止是否人算數 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7771.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7798.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
報告委員現在我們確實在蔡英文總統到中和去看景蕭設宅的時候我有跟她報告我們現在三軌旗下的目標值是110萬戶當時也提到說蔡英文總統任內所完成的設宅的總量是12萬戶包租代管是10萬戶所以我所說的數據到目前為止變動數並不大 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7800.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7807.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
那請問一下賴清德總統當時說會加碼興建13戶住宅那你已經講了未來會越蓋越少請問會少到什麼程度報告委員目前為止我們盤點出來的部分可能會在4萬到6萬之間那還要看 對不起 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7819.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7828.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
還要看這個北北桃中這個縣市地方政府他們現在能夠跟中央政府一起來合作能夠盤點的戶數所以這個部分有一些變動原來是13萬戶現在可能會調降到4萬到6萬戶是這樣嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7836.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7840.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
要看時間因為聽說這個計畫其實都還沒有送行政院不是 報告委員我們百萬戶租屋家庭的支持計畫並沒有改變那目前為止還是三軌所以現在調整的是數目110萬戶的租屋主受到政府的 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7854.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7858.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
對100就是合計超過110萬戶那是因為你有90萬戶都是租金補貼嘛有90萬戶都是租金補貼喔所以才能夠合計加起來是110萬戶那尤其我們剛剛提到的12萬戶的社宅現在看起來好像達標可是實際上只有4萬多戶是完工的我們可以看一下現在這個統計表而興建中以絕標帶開工的 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7878.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7898.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
加起來還有大概8萬戶左右加起來才會有12萬戶這也只是達到這個蔡英文總統當時說的12萬戶那但是真正12萬戶要蓋完可能也當然也要可能要到2032年那現在規劃中的28230這個就是剛您講的賴清德總統的任內開始這個規劃中的嗎就是所謂的13萬戶的社會住宅嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7908.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7930.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
目前規劃當中但是事實上我們還在規劃我剛有跟所以還不知道嗎也就是說接下來的是三萬戶我剛有跟其他的委員報告過目前就是說我們在115到116裡面可以優先興辦的40處大概是1.1萬戶請問一下為什麼會在賴靖德總統也上任一年多的時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7931.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7943.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
你們就把這個他的原來說的13萬戶的社會住宅要興建的這個部分就已經開始公開的公開的表示會跳票了為什麼這麼短時間第一個我們沒有講會跳票需要調整跟委員報告我們現在呢知道說從這個租金補貼裡面呢所分布的這個樣態知道說社會住宅的需求量大概就是集中在北北桃中這些所謂的京華地段跟京華地區 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7960.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7986.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
因為現在全台灣22個縣市已經有蓋好很多社會住宅回答其他委員的時候我聽到這個應該是在你們上任前就會知道社會住宅大概需求的大概就是會在進化區絕對不會是現在才知道嘛用盤點的方式那也就是說現在除了這個跳票之後您剛還提了另外一個原因就是因為要這個營建會增加碳排影響2050年的淨零目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7989.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8015.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
請您看一下您在2024年9月2號參加自然碳會及低碳建築研討會的時候還提到25萬戶社宅每年減碳可以11.23萬噸但現在卻變成說因為這個要增加因為我們蓋社宅會增加碳排量所以我們也要多利用現在的空汙餘汙所以到底蓋社宅是會增加碳排還是會減碳 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8017.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8037.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
蓋得越多當然碳排就越多蓋得越少碳排就越少請問您在2024年講到25萬戶設宅每年減碳11.23萬噸這個怎麼來的第一個那個當時我們在蓋社會住宅的時候因為我們要求社會住宅要走綠建築的標章所以綠建築跟一般的標章比起來是這樣子做所以現在不用嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8038.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8065.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
報告委員我們現在要求是更嚴格也就是說在汽油變遷委員會裡面這個總統有明確要求這個社會這個住商裡面的碳排量要達到35%那我在參加這個自然碳會的時候那時候的目標不是35%那既然是35%的狀況之下那社會住宅如果可以減少這個新蓋的數量的話他減少的碳排量就會更多 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8065.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8082.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
其實我想不管是當時你說會減少碳排或是現在會增加碳排其實大家都聽不懂因為都會覺得說到底是當時為了要推社會住宅當時為了要這個推這個賴總統的政見所以呢什麼樣子都有可能來這個帶動 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8083.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8110.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
社宅的一個興建可是現在又是這樣子所以我們現在看到用淨零轉型來告訴大家說社宅的興建應該要少一點這個其實就是聽起來事實上大家都沒有辦法能夠接受其實委員還有另外一個重點就是稀缺稀缺的淡黃區土地太少了然後那個才是真正有需求的人所需要的地段既然您剛講說社宅的興建會越來越少那為什麼今年住住中心還要增加35個名額然後增加將近9000萬的經費 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8113.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8142.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
報告委員我們現在的方向有三個第一個社會住宅的興建那第二個呢就是現在已經完成的社會住宅還需要有人做這個社會住宅的管理然後再加上我們現在還有都市更新公辦的都更所以有三個面向但是這些人數呢我有要求住住中心已經要做這個檢討不能夠以增加員工人數為主所以說可能針對這部分可能住住中心也要了解一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8142.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8159.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
既然我們接下來不該設 設宅會越蓋越少所以住宅中心的這個原額事實上必須要調整經費也應該要減少才對喔那另外還有就是最後想要請教你就說現在既然剛剛聽部長講重心都轉向包租貸款跟租金補貼那當時呢我們來看到為了擴大租金補貼2.0當時為了衝業績內政部就宣傳說免房東同意直接申請手續減變 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8168.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8187.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
然後告訴年輕人放心來申請吧 政府挺你結果現在他們忽然收到了這個叫他們要補繳的租金補貼要繳回的通知因為說房東說房東房子的稅籍不符或建屋用途不對然後發公文叫弱勢的房客把錢繳回來動輒幾萬 動輒十幾萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8192.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8220.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
其實會要求租金補貼的人其實他們就是相對弱勢那這樣子為了當時你們要去這個衝這樣的一個業績結果造成我們的這房客受到這麼大的一個問題那針對這個部分國土署說反環困難可分期付款這不是反環困難的問題這是當時你們的政策的推廣的時候造成房東造成房客不了解政策而被迫這樣做這樣子的一個騙大家上車之後然後後續 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8221.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8246.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
再對弱勢人進行抄家這樣子可行嗎報告委員我們會跟地方政府來做精進的方案因為這裡面包括第一個他身份變更第二個呢他所住的住宅是不是符合我們當時所做的住宅的部分呢都需要後續的查核然後再來就是也有可能他因為短期的租屋譬如說寒暑假所以會造成我們查核上的困難也就是說我們第一線的查核是在地方政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8246.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8269.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
然後第二線的這個複合是在中央政府那中央政府發現說複合有困難複合有狀況的時候就會要求第一線的地方政府需要做追回的這個工作如果當時如果有宣傳說免房東同意直接申請手續減便而造成房客的這個誤導的話我覺得這個部分我們就應該要來好好的解決這個問題而不是說事後稽查的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8272.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8291.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
我們應該是有定型化的契約的提供但是在處理的過程當中一定會有這些困擾是不是有這樣的問題如果有的話我覺得就是政府應該來解決這樣的問題我們會來幫忙跟地方政府一起來解決因為目前大概是百分之1.3左右出現這樣的狀況我想會來使用租金補貼就是他相對弱勢我們一定要幫他解決問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8298.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8303.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
好謝謝徐宇貞委員的發言接下來我們請劉許廷委員發言跟委員會報告我們在劉許廷委員訓導完之後我們休息5分鐘之後我們再處理我們的臨時提案好謝謝主席內政部部長有請請劉部長委員好部長午安這個現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8327.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8354.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
我就直接問問題好了就現在確定這個減少直接興建社會住宅已經確定是中央政府的政策方向了嗎在目前為止我們已經有跟院長報告過但是我們的總目標100萬還是沒有變我只問你直接興建社宅嗎直接用樹地來興建的部分可能會減少但是並不是表示停止跟委員報告因為太多人在網路上面用誤解的方式來誤解我們的社會住宅政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8356.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8379.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
所以不是不蓋只是減少是吧因為目前在溝通上出現困擾所謂的溝通上出現困擾就是說包括這個北北桃中的這個四個市政府了他們現在也目前也出現是站就是說速度會變慢那大概速度變慢這個牛委員都非常清楚您對這一塊是非常有精闢的見解的所以我們就是跟著他配合 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8379.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8398.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
部長因為賴清德總統在2023年9月20號在社宅推動聯盟的拜會場合中公開宣誓說我當選總統之後將會在蔡總統20萬戶的基礎上以兩任8年進行規劃增加直接興建社會住宅新增13萬戶所以就跳票了對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8399.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8424.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
目前賴總統上任是一年半多那我們是朝著這個方向來努力但是我想您剛也看到了就是蔡總統的8年任內的20萬戶很辛苦目前很辛苦我理解我從來都很我看這個是一定很寬啦但是你如果就講今天你講政策要修正那你就要承認嘛你當初開出來的支票太大張而且有跳票的狀況部長你會不會承認這件事 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8425.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8441.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
我覺得在數據上確實是需要調整數據上確實是需要調整好現在很多人當然這個事情當然就社會震動啦尤其是關注居住正義政策的公民團體也好有需求的人們也好這原因是什麼我想我們也講得很清楚不管在媒體上或怎麼樣都講得非常清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8441.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8458.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
因為在過去這麼一段時間討論居住正義的政策流變裡面直接興建住宅到了最後其實是變成大家的平衡點因為你很多深水區的東西比如說當然我們也看到之前內政部有講國土署有講我們可以釋出很多的空屋那我們是不是要克爭 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8459.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8479.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
更重的囤房稅等等呢這些東西前面很多人倡議但之所以沒有辦法一步到位就是因為這東西涉及了更複雜的利益結構然後以至於要推動相關的政策要付出更高的成本所以果足不前嘛我們前一段時間在這個地方去審理住宅法去討論到稅制的問題的時候政府也一律是保守以對嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8480.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8489.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
這就是為什麼到了最後大家就是期待說我可以直接興建社宅所以我們有更穩健的社會住宅政策確實政府要花很多錢去興建社會住宅但是難道不值得嗎 部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8490.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8517.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
穩健的社會住宅政策是我們共識性最高的那如何做到穩健的社會住宅政策我剛跟委員報告過我們必須要一步一腳印而且呢在數據上面的我們可能會調整但是並不是表示說完全歸零部長我們之前在這個地方討論過很多住宅相關的政策大家也都非常清楚其實你在直接興建社會住宅裡面成本最高的其實就是土地嘛如果土地有辦法順利取得你還會覺得這件事情財務負擔非常大嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8520.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8549.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
不是啦如果社宅的土地可以順利的取得直接興建社會住宅的政策的阻力會不會那麼大會不會壓力很大不能只有因為土地成本而已還有其他的成本譬如說跟委員報告有些社會住宅所興建的地區它等於是一個造鎮的計畫那造鎮計畫裡面交通運輸都市計畫的變更等等這些都是需要曠日廢時的這個委員了解的非常的清楚這就是本席今天要特別跟你討論因為我們看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8549.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8571.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
當然你推證這政策很困難 你有很多的理由是本心願意理解但很多理由其實完全站不住腳的 譬如說我最不能接受的一點 我最不能理解的理由就是說我們沒有什麼剩餘的國有地啦剩下的國有地都在偏遠的地區啊 蓋了也沒有人要住欸這非常荒唐部長 你也抓內政部對不對 國土組也抓這麼多的都市計畫我們光是北北七桃這四個縣市啊 現在有多少條捷運正在蓋北北桃中 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8573.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8598.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
沒關係我先講北北基桃就好北部事件事就好我還先不講台中跟南台灣的獨匯區我先講北台灣的獨匯區就好有多少條捷運正在蓋部長知道嗎多少條捷運正在蓋對大概就好你是說新北還是基隆北北基桃基隆是北北基桃你現在是講哪一條線有多少條捷運正在興建幾條 三條吧沒關係今天交通部不在我不為難你我唸給你聽 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8599.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8621.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
環狀線有北環東環南環萬大線有一期二期有汐止民生線有基隆捷運在桃園有中線有綠線綠線延伸中立還有鐵路地下化等等這些捷運的大型建設計畫很多基本上至少都是進到綜合規劃階段很多都已經核定了這些計畫會帶來多少廠商開發TOD的都市計畫變更 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8622.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8643.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
我知道委員就是要告訴我TOD但是TOD是不是能夠變成唯一拉動這個直接興建社宅的一個因素其實都是要多重討論所以我剛有提到說我們的態度是穩健的推動社會住宅政策我現在就很擔心啦因為光是這些有捷運建設的地方它怎麼會是偏遠而且沒有人會願意居住的地方呢他們都是有人願意居住的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8644.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8661.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
所以需要時間我們當初在修正住宅法的時候可能需要十年的時間我們一度有在討論是不是要把這些區段徵收勢力重劃等等取得我留一定的比例一定要興建設宅就是給你大量的土地結果你當初內政部的態度是什麼說我們不要把這個寫得太死不要把它講得太明我們一定會做 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8663.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8673.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
結果結論是如果我們沒有給予相關的一些措施的時候你的結論就是不做嘛然後你開始說我土地取得很困難這不是很奇怪嗎明明就有法國上的條件有建設上的帶動啊如果你認為說3%跟5%的土地取得的話可能要入法因為我們在過去的一段時間當中跟所謂的直轄市政府也討論過有些直轄市政府就直接反對3%到5%嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8684.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8713.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
所以我跟你講嘛所以我剛有提到說我們在直接興建社會住宅裡面最大的問題是溝通溝通還包括中央政府跟地方政府的溝通所以部長你現在是在指控這些直轄市的線索都不想蓋社宅嗎因為就本席的理解地方政府對於這個計畫是不會排斥的嘛不會排斥那你為什麼要自己踩煞車呢對不對我們也沒有踩煞車我剛跟委員報告過我們現在在調整方向怎麼樣穩健的推動包括桃園市長跟新北市長他們也覺得穩健的推動非常的重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8714.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8730.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
我們如果沒有一起合作中央政府如果沒有跟地方政府一起合作的話社會住宅是蓋不成的當然嘛所以我們沒有要踩煞車嘛委員你這樣講你沒有要踩煞車你就維持13萬戶的宣誓你盡量去做不就好了嗎那你為什麼要主動講說我們蓋不成我們現在努力的推進當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8731.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8746.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
那不就很奇怪嗎但是沒有定案沒有定案又變怎麼回事不是 報告委員每一件每一件事情都是要穩健推動的時候從土地的取得到資金到TOD到都市計畫都是要跟地方政府一起來合作 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8748.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8776.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
積極的去取得積極的去推動我們非常的積極那你們很積極所以才要穩健那為什麼你要把13萬戶計畫砍掉嘛你為什麼辭職不核定然後最後說我要我們還有說砍掉呢我們意思是要調整這個方向那你為什麼要調整呢那這個方向可要調整方向是因為在有限的時間裡面要麻煩地方政府非常的多而且地方政府他們原先所提出的答應直接興建的戶數也非常的多甚至有些到目前為止就有完成千戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8776.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8804.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
而不是萬戶 你有很多的新計畫各地方縣市政府也有若干的進度或一些想法這樣子好了你會後提供相關的資料因為你一下講說我們還是很積極一下講說穩健一下講說還沒有定案沒有 這些都是可及性務實性跟精準性三個原則你會後提供相關的資料到底現在直接興建社會住宅的時間表你的穩健所謂的等等相關的一些資料做一下提供讓大家做長期追蹤但本席是建議啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8805.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8827.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
就按照13萬戶的目標 你去拼嘛而不是說 我今天做不到 我就砍我現在 現在大家擔心破窗啊我說13萬戶 現在一下變6萬 一下說4萬 對不對會不會過兩年變2萬變1萬這個是人民的擔心啦這本其實是提醒你而已 好不好希望部長好好加油對不起 原民會我還有一分鐘部長請回 原民會主委委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8835.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8855.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
主委 這個我們跟你討論一下桃園羅府的那個市地重劃案因為跟你手下開會開了半天耶這個大概是第一個有涉及原保地但是這個我想在市政府規劃相關的案例裡面對於土地的運用 地主的權益其實都已經做了確保但是因為法規上的一些疏漏而且過去沒有這樣子的一個案例喔所以還是停滯不前啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8855.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8863.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
那看起來這個原民會的態度現在是怎樣如果不修法你就一定不會沒有辦法用任何其他的方式來調整這樣這是可以圓滿的意思嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8866.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8885.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
跟委員報告因為我們在去年12月21號的時候有請桃園市政府針對4D重畫因為這個案子涉及到的原住民地主有14位那14位地主當中如果依照重畫完之後獲配的只有3位所以我們要求桃園市政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8887.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8912.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
針對其他的沒有受配的11個土地所有權人的部分進行說明會那桃園市政府後來也召開說明會但是這次說明會當中只有3個地主有到11個基地地主都沒有到那這3個地主當中甚至有幾乎都是反對就是說他們重案所以我們覺得說在這樣子的一個程序正義的部分我們會要求桃園市政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8913.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8919.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
就讓我們的這14個地主的部分他有資的權利知道說他們這個重劃案對他們的土地權益有什麼影響所以我們已經要求桃園市政府針對這未到的11個原住民地主然後進一步的說明本期要擔心因為我們那時候協調會其實就是這樣嘛桃園市政府要去負責地主溝通的相關的一個部分嘛那我們這邊要負責法規上的解釋的排除部分我們要擔心的是會不會地主溝通大家都OK了到時候你還是卡在法規會不會不會確定不會喔不會這裡可以押軍令狀喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
8943.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
8970.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
不是 根據土委報告其實因為那個土地重劃的主管機關在內政部地政室其實我沒有跟內政部地政室協調講好了嘛其實他們正式含附的文的部分其實並沒有具體回覆就是說這個如果4D重劃的結果如果是不是算是由政府取得這種情形所以這個部分我們還是回歸到我們三保條例37條有關於原保地發射的精神是在保障原住民生計的這樣子的一個立場所以我才講 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
8971.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
8996.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
這跟相關地主的權益溝通這個市政府要把它做好對對對對對那只要他們同意這個要件就算符合了對嗎還要考慮到說法規面的問題這就是本期今天問這個問題會不會大家溝通好了到最後你還說我還是要考慮法規面的問題可是跟委員報告其實目前來看我們在去年12月21號召開這個說明會三個地主已經到這三個地主的部分其實幾乎都反對的 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
8996.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9014.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
不是 地主的問題不是你要處理的嘛是市政府要去溝通的嘛我要問的是程序面的問題只要地主都講好是不是就可以嘛還是我一定要為了這個事情就要去啟動修法我覺得是很奇怪這當然也是有公共利益啊因為未來也許會有其他的案例也是這樣做處理的只要地主的權益可以被確保原民的權益不會受損其實應該要樂見地方的有辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9015.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9032.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
做合理的重新規劃跟發展報告委員我們原民會針對那個原住民保地卡的管理辦法現在主管機關的立場就是要保障原住民族的一個生計所以這樣子的一個立場我們會去從這個方向去解釋對 所以這個主委就他說了算 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9033.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9059.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
不管怎麼樣都還是要看法規嗎還是你可以做個組決定一下這件事我們可以用政策解釋的方式處理嘛你說政策解釋我就回去催桃園市政府趕快完成溝通程序這事就圓滿了嘛可以做到這樣嗎希望兩方面都能夠完成啦尤其是那個你現在又變希望兩方面都要完成了對對對對所以那還是要修法律師囉要解套的話對齁 你說的是對 好 這樣我知道了謝謝 辛苦了 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9062.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9065.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
好謝謝牛軒體育委員的質詢我們現在休息5分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9108.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9109.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
副市長 副市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9115.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9122.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
因為他自己說 你說要多一分鐘我才說要多一分鐘是是是 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9137.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9166.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
響鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9178.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9193.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
順遂順遂順遂順遂好 我們再請一位來打招呼請我們有兩位大家拜訪就好我們也要問這個針對針對針對被遛住的針對我們再講清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9196.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9216.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
響鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9239.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9239.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
請出席 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9742.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9754.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
我們現在繼續開會我們處理臨時提案現在處理臨時提案共識案請宣讀臨時提案一針對內政部一再生能源發展條例第12條之一第二項授權陣營裡建築物設置太陽光 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9758.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9775.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
電發電設備標準草案你規定一定規模以上新建增建或改建建築物應強制設置太陽光點鑒於該辦法已於一百十四年十二月十九日發布且社會各界對於將一般住宅及商業辦公大樓納入強制範圍存有消防安全產權維護及增加建築成本之高度疑慮 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9777.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9806.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
為避免執行之外原提案要求內政部與經濟部在再生能源發展條例第12條之一施行日期與行政院核定前應加強該標準政策宣導及溝通以消敏一般住宅及商業辦公大樓施行之疑慮提案人委員張志倫等臨時提案二社會住宅是中央與地方共同推動的重要居住政策對於照顧青年弱勢族群及穩定都市居住環境具有實質注意 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9807.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9832.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
嘉義市屬高度發展的都市區人口其中居住需求持續存在確實有興建社會住宅的必要性目前嘉義市先前評估規劃的社會住宅案已陸續進入施工階段顯示政策方向正確需求確實存在展望未來隨著都市發展與人口結構變化嘉義市對於社會住宅仍有持續推動的空間與必要性且部分用地與規劃作業已在進行中因此建議中央應 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9833.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9857.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
中央依适合之用地与地方政府加速相关规划与新建作业以回应市民实际居住需求落实居住正义提案人委员王美惠等临时提案三有鉴于国家语言整体发展方案之政策目的系在强化原住民族语之保存复正与传播能量其中原住民族语节目影音制作计划跨国族语节目 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9857.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9874.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
制播計畫編列經費原意在於提升族語發展培力節目自製能力與國際交流制播量能為相關經費遭挪作與族語無關之運動會及周邊活動形同掛羊頭賣狗肉已非單純行政調整而是偏離法定政策目的 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9875.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9897.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
掏空族語振興之重大疑慮有有勝者該筆款向西京立法院接避監督後方得保留資金費原住民族委員會不僅未記取教訓反疑似變本加厲以活動包裝規避監督損及國家語言政策公信力亦傷害族人對政府推動族語附贈之信任 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9900.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9915.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
為釐清經費用途合法性政策目的符合性及責任歸屬 原請原住民族委員會於一個月內研議辦理下列事項 並以書面含附本席國會辦公室必立後續審查與追責 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9916.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9934.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
一 釐清法源與目的就跨國族與節目制播計畫之核定目的應辦工作項目預期成果指標與可知用範圍提出明確書面說明並說明本案是否符合強化族與發展與節目自治能力之政策目的及法源依據二 完整揭露預算與支出 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9934.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9963.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
提出本案八千五百萬元之完整預算編列與執行明細含用途別科目各項採購契約金額委外項目付款期程和銷評證類型並逐項說明一 為何僅六集節目集資出高達八千五百萬元之成本合理性與市場比較依據二 近九成經費用於活動辦理之必要性與足以製播之關聯性及其成果驗收方式三 是否涉及周邊販售宣傳支出與其收入流向與會計處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9964.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9985.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
是經費支出之檢討若經查核認定涉及與計劃目的無關之支出或不符預算科目及核銷規範者請提出主筆追回責任追究與行政懲處之具體做法與時程並提出後續防弊機制含專案集合與公開透明措施提案人委員高清素梅等 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9987.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
10013.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
臨時提案4有鑒於部落公法人制度之本質本質系在建構部落治理制度包含部落決策機制之建立角色分工與責任鏈之釐清使部落得以由組織有程序回應公共事務並落實原住民族自治精神為原住民族委員會迄今遲未公布相關辦法與配套制度配套反而先行推動114年度部落公法人事辦計畫致原住民族各界難以支持與理解 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
10013.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
10038.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
亦引發制度正當性與程序正義之重大疑慮有有勝者即便以事辦名義推動仍應遵循由下而上之部落自主原則採公平公正公開之程序確保部落充分知情自由選擇與實質參與若以自上而下命令式推動將使事辦淪為行政績效工程背離部落自治初衷並可能造成部落內部分裂與治理負擔外部化影響部落長期治理穩定 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
10039.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
10057.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
據此原請原住民族委員會於兩週內研議辦理下列事項並以書面函附本席國會辦公室必立後續監督與審查以緊述完備法治與配套請提出部落工法人相關辦法含設立要建組織架構權責範圍財務制度監督與救濟機制等之具體公布時程與草案內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
10058.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
10074.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
並說明預期未公布之原因及補救措施而釐清事辦之法律依據與政策目的請說明114年度部落工法人事辦計畫之法源依據政策目標預計成果指標事辦範圍與適用條件並提出與正式制度銜接之路徑圖與退場機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
10075.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
10088.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
三 建立由下而上之公平公開程序施辦計畫之遴選與參與英才公開徵見資訊透明評選標準明確審查委員組成公開之方式辦理並確保部落有充分討論其與部落會議決議程序 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
10090.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
10110.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
請提出完整作業流程時程表及部落知情同意之具體做法本席重申部落公法人士部落治理的制度基礎制度未完備程序不正當事辦只會消耗部落信任破壞自治初衷請原民會以部落為主體以程序為底線以法治為依歸勿在本末導致提案人文高精素美等宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
10114.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
10127.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
跟各位報告在我們相關單位跟我們提案委員說明之後我們臨時提案第一案第二案第三案依溝通結果通過第四案照案通過那我們現在繼續開會我們接下來請鄭天才委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
10150.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
10176.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
主席 各位委員 有請主委委員好 主委好這個原住民族教育程度的落差主委知道嗎原住民跟非原住民大專學生的出債協力的差距多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
10177.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
10181.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
75%到90%好 正確的數字這個表示 這個我們園民會的處要加油我質詢過這個教育部你們同仁也在 回去要跟主委報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
10200.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
10227.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
原住民近5年大專校園原住民學生的出債協力107學年度是差距是31.9然後逐年增高113學年度差距高達36.85%今天延命會的業務報告裡面都特別提到提升原住民的人才 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
10229.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
10255.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
這個教育是最重要最重要的這個最重要的 最重中之重 教育所以這個部分 園民會要去重視當然你會覺得說跟我的業務沒有很大的關係事實上你們要去協調有幾個部分要去協調教育部分第一個部分 外加名額過去我們這個 主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
10258.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
10284.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
我們過去考大學的時候不是外加名後來改為外加2%這個杜部長杜正勝部長的時候把它改為外加2%我經過協調之後部分的科系現在教育部可以提高為5%外加5%但是那個科系太少而且這個規定教育部的這個辦法的規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
10286.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
10314.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
是要研民會跟教育部一起去跟大專校園能夠增加這些科系所以這個部分最好是全部改為外加5%因為我們的落差太大了可以去協調嗎 主委可以 我們來跟部長這邊來協調也要請我們的副主委要積極的去協助這個主委去跟教育部協調過去我當副主委都是去協調 負責去協調 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
10317.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
10322.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
另外一個問題就是在協雜費 協雜費 教育部的協雜費的減免這個會跟什麼有關係呢 跟我們的休閒 退閒就跟經費有關係 就跟這個教育經費有關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10336.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10357.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
你看我們111學年度大專以上學生休學原住民是10.55%一般的非原住民只有5.87%差距差不多將近一半我們的退學率更高13.01%也將近5.63%的一個落差這個就是跟沒有經費預算尤其 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10366.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10394.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
因為外加2%之後就去念私立大學私立大學的費用又高啊經費付不起又要去辦公辦讀當然就影響這個學業嘛就會休學甚至會退學這個都跟經費有關係所以112年6月29號行政院公佈了私立大專學校的學雜費非研鑽民可以掃腳 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10398.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10423.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
3.5萬但是原住民完全沒有受益因為用不到因為我們有另外一個制度所以本席在112年7月就協調但是經過了8年都沒有調整所以這個要請教育那個研民會也要去協調教育部因為原住民族教育的經費每年編列的時候研民會跟教育部要去協調 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10425.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10445.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
原住民族教育經費不能超少於多少那個部分你們要怎麼樣去調整在這個教育的這個相關的這些經費裡面這是非常非常的重要所以這個要請這個園民會盡速的去協調園民會自己本身的部分110年講述學經 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10449.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10478.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
獎助學金的部分從111年到現在也都沒有調整物價指數各方面也都是應該去協調所以你們的預算的編列怎麼樣去針對原住民族教育能夠有所重視這個部分主委這個要去修正我們檢討要檢討接下來原住民族綜合發展基金很重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10478.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10484.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
你看105年12月31號的結算數淨值淨值高達117億7千多萬元經過因為淨法補償被挪用 作為淨法補償所以112 12月31號結算數是負的 本來是淨值 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10504.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10529.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
正數115億變成負的63億累積到114年12月31日累積短數負的67億6千多萬到113年一樣累積短數又增加負的68億8千多萬所以這樣的一個情形你們要做其他事情都很困難所以這個要去爭取 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10530.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10558.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
主委你要知道當初沒有原住民足跡本法的時候每年我從原住民行政 台灣省原住民行政局的副局長開始去協調足跡單位每年去撥幾億幾億才會有達到100多億是這樣的一個基礎所以這個部分你要一直短促 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10559.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10584.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
立法院在第九屆第二會期就做了決議106年的時候就做了決議應該要去撥補所以我們高軍數美委員跟本席有共同的提案要修這個原住民族基本法第18條把它明定在因為100億我們本來就超過100億對不對我們要修法 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10585.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10604.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
所以你們要去協調相關的部會要支持這個修法可以嗎可以 今年有補助五億一直五億來這個有補充五億到這裡來那個主委那個我清楚那個是還是去做進法補償的所以這個進法補償的要扣掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10605.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10622.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
本來就不應該 淨法補償本來應該用公務預算的所以這個不我們這個這個去協調反正要讓他回到100億的一個方向這個是有這個基金你才可以做很多的事情包括貸款 臨住民保障貸款 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10624.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10635.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
開始做了但是這個利率既然已經有綜合發展基金去做這個信託就應該要降低這個利率結果利率還高達2.28%這樣的一個利率比其他的 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10643.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10670.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
其他的新清安房貸一般型房貸什麼那個都比較都來的比較低我們的還是高所以等於既然有了信保就應該既然有基金去保證就應該降低它的利率這才是一個對我們原住民的潛意的一個保障這個接下來內政部部長也來一下內政部好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10672.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10701.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
主委你也要在場這是你的業務我是舉例過去沒有原基法的時代沒有原住民族基本法的時代台灣省政府開始每年的編列相關的這些基隆國宅包括我們這個新店中正原住民的住宅當初馬耀古木帶頭抗議去到台灣省政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10702.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10729.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
我那時候是副組委副局長還是副組委那時候去興建買了這個中正國宅對不對像這樣的當初就是用政府的經費公務預算你看現在當然又出了問題你看我們這個新店三峽也是用公務預算這個相關的棄子的花東新村也都是用公務預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10730.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10756.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
那時候都沒有住宅法 也沒有延期法那現在有了延期法 測定原住民族住宅政策然後要對都會區的安基要有保障 要協助然後住宅法第2條第4項英式原住民族教育及語言文化等傳承發展要新建 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10757.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10779.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
專攻原住民成豬的社會住宅105年12月23號修正到現在到現在沒有一個原住民的專屬的原住民族住宅所以現在都會區的原住民人口已經高達52.8%了我們的相關的這些原住民族住宅的自由利 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10780.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10805.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
新北市台北市桃園市台中市都差距百分之三十左右啊這樣的一個差距當然要去加加強我們的原住民專屬的社會住宅但是到現在為止都沒有一個主要還是經費嘛還要經費所以本席啊針對園民會的一百一十四到一百一十七也曾經 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10808.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10832.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
協調國發會當然就內政部而言你們的住宅基金難道都不能提供作為興建原住民專屬的社會住宅嗎都沒有做你看看這個國發會的主委都同意要列在這個列在這個原住民住宅的四年計畫裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10834.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10861.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
質詢答覆本席也發了公文把國發會主任委員的承諾也都發文給人民會都沒有做所以要去加油去修正提出去送出去我們共同的去協調相關的部會甚至行政院這個處長趕快發文 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10863.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10889.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
反正修正了 還沒有做嘛 對不對這個已經快要一年了 這個一定要去爭取我們部長請回座 部長請回座最後 這個主委花蓮光復鄉馬太安溪淹涉浮造成重大的傷亡 包括住宅 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10890.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10916.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
相關的這些我們已經受害非常的深了現在經濟部水利署要將這個馬太安溪河道治理土石的站置場要放在馬太安部落的香草場的部落裡面這個部分要請嚴明會第一個這裡面很多的土地部落 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10917.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10946.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
原住民的土地還是國有土地增花邊保留地因為跟分割經費沒有一直到現在幾十年都沒有辦保留地他沒有拿到所有錢到時候真的是被強制做土石站置廠的時候他完全拿不到任何的對不對連補償那個人的徵收都沒有辦法都沒有都不會有啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10947.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10974.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
所以這個部分要請這個人民會第一個保留地的趕快去加速辦理第二個這是我們的部落要依延期法依延期法因為馬太安西苑社府的特別條例有提到要依延期法所以你們要跟那個經濟部所謂律師說你要設這個戰車場 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10976.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10993.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
要依延期法 要經過馬太安部落的諮商同意可以嗎 趕快發文給他們 好 謝謝謝謝鄭天才委員的質詢 接下來我們請鄭正前委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
11005.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
11008.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
謝謝主席我想請一下劉世芳部長請劉部長部長好今天的那個主題其實就是我們的社宅原本是宣誓要做13萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
11024.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
11052.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
那現在可能就往下修我剛剛有聽您大概提到說可能會下修的數量大概是到4到6萬對不對是不是這個數字是目前是這樣子但是還沒有完全定案要看我們跟因為我們還有主要有兩三個市政府還沒有去拜訪那我想說量下修啦可以理解那不過某個部分也是算是一個正式的跳票可是我想品質不會下修吧對不對完全不會完全不會嗎好那我想請教部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
11053.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
11062.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
因為內政部在2021年有宣示未來興建社宅必須同時符合綠建築 智慧建築跟內政三大標章2021年就開始所以這個政策不會改變吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
11067.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
11087.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
到目前為止也是這樣子沒有改變嗎OK好那我想請教一下確實是有些社宅建案是符合這三種的標章都繼續我想請問一下高雄的人物安居社會住宅是不是完全符合上述的三大標章的規範我是不是請可以請董事長 花董事長請 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
11087.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
11104.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
官員報告原則上我們的社宅除了最早的一兩個案子可能只有兩個沒有三個之外我們後面一百因為我們現在一百六十九個案子是所以說應該全部都至少應該都全部都是嘛所以那個忍武安居算在後來的部分嘛不是前面兩個嘛對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
11106.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
11131.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
應該是好的我想說確實在住都中心他在整個施工規範跟施工和材料管理標準裡面都非常的清楚都確實也都講到包括在鋪地磚的章節當中的時候也都講得非常的細確實都有我們去看到了比方說包括蘆洲的青年社宅等等他們確實也都有具體的公佈 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
11132.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
11151.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
我們在用地磚的時候它要符合這三大項的一個部分可是因為本席這邊就收到了一些澄清的狀態在高雄人物的這個案件當中的時候它的地磚的部分疑似沒有符合標準你往下看我想請教一下董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
11153.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
11171.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
針對那個CM再往下CM60AB3這個品名的地磚因為這很細啦我也不能指望說你現在馬上可以回覆可是這個地磚當中的時候它是不是符合綠建築標章 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
11173.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
11202.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
你應該很難馬上回覆你可以之後再給那我直接跟你講因為這個是越南製的他不符合這個標章而且事實上對於整個既然沒有綠建材標章的時候他也沒有讓納入綠建材資料庫裡面都沒有那環保標章也沒有也沒有綠建材證書像這樣的狀態為什麼可以進到社宅的工地裡頭去可不可以請董事長回應一下我立刻查好不好讓我立刻查 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
11203.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
11213.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
一個禮拜請給本席很清楚的一個資料就是本案件核准所有的地專的一個型號還有綠建材證書的編號跟有效的期間還有送審的材料還有核准的文件這些部分請一併給我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
11222.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
11237.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
因為我們認為社宅如果總量的時候現在政策上要下修量是一回事品質不能打折扣當然對不對所以這個部分請務必給本席一個很清楚狀態一個禮拜可以給本席一個禮拜可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
11239.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
11255.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
好 那這個部分的時候我想說我再繼續再問另外一個問題請教部長因為從1月1號開始的時候台灣的那個建築營造業出現了一個土方之亂那我不知道部長知不知道這個事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
11257.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
11285.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
對 在土方跟土資廠的部分我們了解其實對於剩餘土石方的管理數位化這個部分這個方向本息是支持的可是在整個做的過程當中因為整個制度改變得非常的快去化量 跨縣市的一個調度還有系統韌性跟整個契約配套感覺沒有跟上我想請教部長因為內政部那邊有直接講說目前全國的收納量人 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
11285.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
11302.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
是1億5110萬立方這個數字是怎麼來的然後這個數字當中的時候呢有多少是立即可以動用能量有多少是已經符合所有的法律程序可以用有多少只是計畫當中的可不可以請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
11303.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
11317.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
報告委員其實我們在去年五六月的時候呢三個部會已經同時宣告這個部分只是有一些民間業者呢對這方面的了解不夠深入那有關這個總量的部分我是不是請我們這個大署長跟您回應一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
11320.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
11346.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
委員好那有關這個以五千萬方的這個部分是由行政院跨部會來協調那當然除了原來本來地方政府他就有我要問的是現在馬上可以用的還是未來才可以用因為現在馬上碰到了幾個大問題一個是去化量能不足第二個狀態就是內政部這邊說我們一天台灣至少要有六千台的那個運輸的車 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
11348.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11374.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
要裝GPS新的政策要裝GPS請問現在總共有裝到多少的量現在我們的內增部的GPS已經到近5000台快5000台然後再加上環保的機它目前也有1832總共有6821台那請教一下代理處長你知道現在目前這個狀態的時候目前整個業界幾乎都停擺因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11375.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11402.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
碰到幾個狀態因為整個土方城門馬上的一個上升然後工程可能會碰到延宕的一個問題那我直接講比較具體的狀態因為你剛剛還沒有回答我就是1億5110萬立方可以處理的量如果有這麼多去化量的時候正常不會造成市場上這麼塞車的情況因為我們去年整個公共工程這邊出來的數字大概是3600萬立方米一年的使用去化量可是如果說有1.5億 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11404.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11433.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
這麼大的一個去化量的時候正常不應該塞車啦那我們也確實是希望說我們這個制度好的制度讓整個台灣的環境好的制度我們就要往下走只是過程當中怎麼樣讓它走得順剛剛部長這邊有提到說是廠商還不了解狀態這個就是我們在推動政策的時候必須要去處理的問題啊不能夠所有的問題就全部都推給廠商去嘛我們要協助他們來解決所以我這邊最後一個部分我想很具體的要求國土署這邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11434.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11458.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
是不是能夠去了解去調查一下目前這些公共工程的部分大概有多少會因為這樣的一個土石方的一個政策的一個調整而受到延宕如果是受到延宕的時候是不是能夠協調公共工程委員會用制度性的來處理這件事情然後讓這些工程延宕的部分能夠有一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11460.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11483.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
調整的一個標準可不可以請代理署長回答一下目前來講公共工程部分其實現在院裡面都有在來協調所以公共工程的部分其實沒有太大問題現在主要是民間工程我們今天也會在下午因為其實我們已經部長在上個禮拜已經都邀集我們六都以及新竹縣市來討論今天下午會把所有的縣市通通再找來把現在所有的處理的 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11484.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11507.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
對策 向大家說明 目前來講我們內政部都有積極 譬如像剛剛講的GPS的裝還有這些最終的處置的這些場所那這一五千萬方式有些是中長期的沒有錯 但是目前中長期就沒有辦法滿足現在狀態所以現在才會塞車嘛那你剛剛提到說公共工程部分可能可以顧到可是民間的業者完全塞車 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11507.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11531.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
那我在想說新政策推出一定也不是只要滿足公共工程的需求我們希望整個市場都能夠得到一樣的一個照顧好不好所以針對這個部分的時候我們希望說國土組這邊很具體的告訴我們有多少的量可以馬上去做去化的而不是只處理公共工程的部分民間的部分也需要讓他們有一個合理的去化的一個去向好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11532.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11560.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
是好我們現在有一個那個行部長再回報告委員我想我們必須要很務實的跟委員報告我們大概三個方向第一個就是擴增土資場您剛所提到的擴增土資場的部分我們經協調交通部在台北港台中港以及高雄港的部分那目前的量大概是一億五千萬方但是現在可以用的量大概是三千萬方到四千萬方可用那有關公共工程的土資的部分其實沒有問題但是按照原來的步驟去走就可以了 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11561.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11586.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
再來就是簡化還有要求要加裝GPS因為如果沒有加裝GPS因為包括新竹縣市政府還有台北市政府要求他們可以跨域去清運這些土資那如果你沒有GPS的話可能就是會變成亂道會變成是環保的大問題因為後續的處理會更糟糕那我們現在就是想辦法把不合法的這個土資的管道把它堵住這是一點所以也非常謝謝委員的支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11587.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11613.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
那現在GPS的量我們採取雙軌制一個就是如果你在內政部已經有申請GPS的話那當然沒問題現在已經達到5000輛那還有以前因為配合環境部在處理有關GPS他那個地方比較沒有這個實質上的部分可是我們覺得可以雙軌那這個縣市政府也願意來支持而且要求如果在雙軌上面有一些時間差的話那縣市政府在處理這個集合他們願意幫忙那這一點大概 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11615.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11627.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
包括新竹縣市政府在內的七個縣市政府都同意用這樣的方向來處理這一個那再來就是簡化行政流程所謂的簡化行政流程的部分就是說如果你要加裝GPS的話我們會在兩天內只要你申請大概就會通過還有一個我們把這個砂石車啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11634.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11648.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
這個不是只有這個現在的砂石車包括你一般的這個8.8噸到3.5噸以上的車子他如果願意來清運土石的話我們也會讓他來處理那這一點我們跟交通部還有監理所已經談妥 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11649.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11666.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
所以事實上在一個禮拜的時間內我們把這個北台灣去化量比較不足的狀況已經做了部分的處理那再來就是執行面的部分那執行面的部分的話縣市地方政府的包括他們都發或是公務等等這些他們在配合程度上都有提到就希望說業者 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11667.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11685.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
不要因為GPS是不是可以緩緩的部分請他們不要觀望因為如果一觀望的話就會造成更大的塞車因為會造成更大的環保問題那以上相關的部分如果您對新竹市政府或是新竹縣政府所需要的土資量需要多少的話我們會後再查給委員來做參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11686.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11710.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
OK 謝謝部長因為我在想這個問題確實是目前整個業界碰到的問題那我也給你很完整的部分去做說明你剛提到說我們目前盤整出來有3000到4000萬立方米可以用那我想說你之後再給我更詳細的一個資料然後在有關於GPS的部分我要特別提醒一個狀態AB車的問題請務必要特別去處理剛講的就是AB車A到B到C這三點的部分都已經處理了 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11711.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11722.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
A到B到C不是這個狀態我想說就是你用合法的牌照的時候可是你用非法的部分去處理這個部分請務必要同時去處理交通部我們會跟他們一起來協調OK 好 謝謝謝謝曾振琴委員的質詢接下來我們請王紅委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11735.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11746.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
好謝謝主席請我們的代理署長郭圖書代理署長跟我們劉部長請代理署長朱慶倫以及我們的劉部長還有部長好部長和代理署長我接續剛才鄭振淺委員的這個題目 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11762.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11771.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
我們都知道最近有所謂的一個是土方之亂一個就是房屋租金因為一腳被追回之亂但是你可以看到我們的民眾現在可以說是連滾帶爬 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11779.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11783.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
但是我們的國土署署長原署長現在是匆匆容容的要去就任新職我覺得看在民眾的眼中這些這麼多亂象然後為這些亂象所困擾的民眾再看在他們的眼裡真的是何其的離譜還有真的非常諷刺 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11800.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11802.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
好 我們來看土方之亂剛才部長的回答我特別把它仔細聽了一下以現在的土方之亂不是只有南部我們昨天媒體大幅的報導大概都是集中在高雄 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11815.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11837.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
但是事實上在我們的北部大概包含很多處的工地這裡面包含國營事業這裡面包含民間的建商的案量還有甚至像學校各處的工地因為土方之亂到目前為止很多都還在停工中停工已經超過半個月之久 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11840.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11847.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
所以第一個你們所提出來這些所謂的解方到目前為止並沒有解決土方之亂第二個我們很擔心的這就是現在很擔心因為有一些他們在挖這個連續幣已經到四成樓或五成樓如果他們繼續處於停工狀態 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11861.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11878.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
非常有可能發生公安問題因為他們怕工地會崩塌剛才我看到部長有點頭我相信你也聽到這樣的一個說法所以他們很擔心像這個部分第一個應該優先解決好 比如說有一些建地他們說他們可能剛挖一層樓開始擔心但是已經挖四五層樓的 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11882.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11887.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
很擔心如果還不能動工的話該怎麼辦所以現在是處於一個全面在受害連滾帶爬當中剛才在講就是加裝GPS我們不反對加裝GPS但它有配套的措施那麼現在就是因為欠缺配套措施現在狀況是怎麼樣呢是中間的這些土資廠 土方廠 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11909.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11925.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
他們等於有點像聯合行為 就是拒收嘛我管你來自於哪裡 我通通拒收所以才造成現在很多的工地處於停工狀態大家急得如熱鍋上的螞蟻所以我想請問部長的 因為我也有注意到媒體因為這幾天事實上很多人反映 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11932.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11946.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
所以呢卓院長也說他在1月16號就做了跨部會召集我不曉得那個跨部會召集的結果是不是你剛才所說的這是其一第二因為時間的關係我做兩個具體的建議第一個具體的建議是以我們台北市來說你們即便再增加最終的處置廠沒有可能放在台北市所以這些跨縣市的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11962.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11974.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
真的急需中央來做協調就是跨縣市的部分另外那現在有一些呢鑑定他們是認為說別說他有A鑑定他現在可能挖了四五層但他還有B鑑定或者C鑑定這個時候可能B鑑定CD鑑定還沒有挖 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11983.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
12012.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
所以他暫時解決藍莓之急他可不可以把A鑒地的土方先暫置在他B鑒地上面然後他一起來做處置就是說這些土方他還是會做處置但是解決他現在已經挖得蠻深的不要出現公安事件第二個就是你們可不可以輔導或者同意如同公共工程因為有一些公共工程他在他的原來的鑒地他就開始做分類 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
12013.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
12028.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
他開始做分類 他不用透過中間的這個土製廠他可以直接送到 對 最後的最終土製廠他至少可以解決他極大多數的這個土方的問題那現在有一些民間的這個業者他其實是有能力 他也願意做投資 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
12035.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
12040.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
他不要經過中間 因為現在就是中間他們集體的拒收嘛他等於說 他在這個鑑定裡面他直接 他先做處置 做分類然後這個是 比如說台北港可以接收的因為台北港也不是什麼亂七八糟 他都收啊他要你處理過後 他才收那他就可以直接運到台北港去那麼就解決至少已分類的這些土方好 所以我剛才是做了一些具體的建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
12064.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
12086.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
所以現在就請部長來回答1月16號請問你們到底做成什麼樣的結果那麼今天下午你們又可以做什麼具體保證來解決土方之亂報告委員您剛講的這個三個方法都是我們現在在精進的措施那相關的這個部分等一下代署長會跟您回應但是我跟委員報告就是除了行政院有召開跨部會的會議之外 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
12089.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
12118.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
那內政部已經先針對六都跟新竹縣市政府就是出土量比較多建案比較多的已經達成了協議那這裡面包括您剛所提到的戰治區怎麼樣做定義還有就是說如果要送到原來只有收公共工程的量的這個台北港是不是可以收這個所謂的民間的興辦的部分那在台北港的地方呢有沒有可能整理出一個戰治區這些都是可行的方案那我請署長目前台北港是朝這個方向嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
12119.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
12145.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
目前院裡面 院裡面那個李顧問他已經協商大概會有將近14公頃的這個土地可以提供雙北來做站制14公頃對14公頃目前是還在等這個兩個市政府做最後的答覆一週內是所以你們可能一週內都還是有點晚喔你們可不可以再我照不照的還是要加緊啊因為他們挖四五層樓的他們很怕很怕攤掉啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
12146.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
12160.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
那目前 報告委員那目前已經開挖施工中的這些工地沒有錯 挖到一半的部分目前我們是有這個配合行政院的這個決策我們現在在做這個臨時站制那臨時站制今天下午會開會跟大家討論所以今天下午會出入臨時站制的規定對 是因為這時間外我覺得這個問題真的一定要解決 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
12169.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
12182.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
因為再摘下去我們擔心有公安問題我們甚至也擔心到時候可能有些金融的問題那另外一個就是大家很關心的我剛才說就是這個租金補貼回收之亂那這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
12185.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
12214.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
我知道剛才有一些委員有特別問到那你們說要跟由縣市政府就是合成縣市政府來加強就是來處理可是因為現在發生很多事情譬如說你說租屋者他有沒有因此就是在這過程裡面他持有房子他不管是用購買的或者有的是用繼承的他會去登記那或者是說他的家庭成員他也持有房屋老師說你在台北租屋的 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
12214.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
12226.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
你在南投 你在雲林有房子他如何跨縣市去做集合所以這個部分沒有辦法你去折騰縣市這個還是要中央來做統籌啊不然的話真的就會發生這個大家哀鴻遍野說現在要領年終獎金了結果年終獎金還不夠去補回你這個房屋租金補貼啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
12241.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
12256.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
因為這個是申請人資格的一個變動那坦白講包括像他這些有因為是不管是受證啊或者說繼承啊甚至說是婚後配合他所原來所有的房屋這種東西的確沒有錯這個是因為他的事情條件變了 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
12257.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
12284.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
那它是一條間變我的意思是說它在它變南投出現有房子或者雲林出現有房子我台北怎麼會知道所以才會出現說後來再去跟人家追腳啊才會引起這樣的一個問題啊因為 抱歉抱歉因為委員我們現在是因為總歸戶的關係所以才會掌握到這些資訊那說掌握到這些資訊以後我們按規定因為過去審計部也要求我們針對這部分要來查我知道你是按照這些相關規定但是這對於租屋者很大的困擾嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
12285.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
12300.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
第一個說家庭成員去有房子我都不曉得啊第一個家庭成員他有房子他也不一定要跟他報告第二個你們還有這個是說這個房子他符不符合資格他是不是符合這個自用住宅等等之類 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
12301.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
12315.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
一般去租房子的不會去問那麼多啦不會去問那麼多去問房東你這個是不是自用住宅你這個是不是這個不能不能報自用住宅不可能所以才會出現今年這麼混亂的一個現象所以在這個部分第一個拜託你們你們現在說要用分期嘛就是減輕減輕這些回繳的他的 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
12326.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
12328.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
壓力 負擔但是第二個我剛才講你們全部交給縣市就會出現像這次的這樣的一個這個租金補貼回補之亂那以前怎麼不會發生對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
12342.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
12362.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
過去其實也有啦不過我們會跟地方政府共同來處理加強教育訓練就是你們應該去想一想去檢討一下是不是還是只是去責成縣市政府縣市政府你們比較輕鬆但是我覺得反而會製造問題好不好好好 謝謝好 謝謝王文威委員的質詢現在我們請黃建豪委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
12376.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
12405.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
好謝謝主席那我們一樣請內政部劉部長然後還有我們國土署的朱署長朱大力署長請一下劉部長還有大力署長部長早署長早這個今天還是一樣針對土方的問題剛剛幾位都是北部的委員那我們今天特別討論中部的部分可以看一下這是你們上禮拜記者會提供的數字就是說其實在台中市台北市新北市部分台中市確實出土量是全國第二 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
12405.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
12422.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
但是我們在直接利用之後真正要送土質廠的量只有212萬的這個左右數字這個處理的比例其實蠻多的只剩三分之一需要處理掉但是如果依據你們上禮拜一樣是你們公布的這個地方要擴增最終去處的話你們看那個數字啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
12424.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
12442.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
剛剛部長提到說不管中長期規劃還有這個短期規劃裡面中長期規劃是1億多的立方米這1億多的數字那如果現階段你們上禮拜公布給我們的數字是台北港可以收3000萬那高雄呢收容中可以收700萬那台中的最終去化最終儲置廠 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
12443.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
12468.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
要到115年底會有200萬台中104萬彰化但這個數字是幾點年底才會發生的事情但此時此刻到今天已經19號嘛因為你們16號那天早上你們有開跨院的會議跨部的會議那我記得我們16號下午的時候我跟我們這個署長也有一個協調會嘛有台中一些業者跟廠商來反映他們的想法跟意見那從那天到現在為止其實最核心的問題是台中 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12469.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12487.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
因為做內政部的立場你們全國的量是夠的但是你看台中要到115年底這個量才會出來喔所以我們今天要這邊想要解決問題是說那請問一下115年今天1月19號我到今天上午我也跟這些台中的10家土地廠來確認說今天能不能出他們今天還是不能出 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12488.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12506.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
所以已經19天了如果再一個禮拜用20天那再一個月左右要過年所以很多的這所謂的建案他們現在土房沒有去處所以所謂的B今天你們有ABC嘛B是土質廠的部分可是土質廠因為它沒有C點它沒有地方去化導致它B點它不能收所以大家現在卡在這邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12507.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12536.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
所以今天內政部要給大家一個答案以中部地區來講的話我的C到底要去哪裡我怎麼處理我可不可以送到北部我可不可以送到南部有沒有開放這件事情這個是會請內政部請國土署給大家一個明確答案到底C要怎麼處理台中中部地區的C要怎麼處理是好 報告委員那有關C的這個部分我們目前來講當然第一個就是我們現在原來台中市的這個處理房子從A到C的這部分我們這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12538.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12563.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
現在是簡化流程嘛 這個部分也可以來處理在今天的下午會議也會跟台中市政府來說明這個 這個 來 署長我會打斷你一下早上我也問了這件事情A到C的部分還是以前的網利還是會送到土質廠就A到C的部分有時候會送到土質廠有價料送到C吧 那B要處分可是因為今天你沒有C的時候中間這段它的有價它沒辦法分離出來它分離出來它沒地方放啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12565.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12587.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
我要出土 我這個建案 我這個場地我要出土 我出來了這個土土壤優秀 很好 有辦法再利用所以我本來有所謂的C去處是可以再利用但是這一坨 這個土方裡面一定有部分需要被堆置 被掩埋它需要經過這個B的處理但是因為今天你沒有最終去化的這個場地所以它出來這一堆東西裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12588.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12608.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
他有些要進到B去再利用的部分他的B沒有地方 他也不能收嘛因為B他拿不到所謂的最終處這個最終處置這個場地的空間他拿不到照他就不能發給A那所以你說你A到C可以簡化是以後可以把這個所謂中間流程去去化掉嗎直接有價的直接處理直接賣掉就好了嗎然後B沒關係這樣是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12611.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12618.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
我們現在是A到C的部分是沒有錯就是沒有辦法處理還要再分類的才會直接到C |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12619.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12642.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
那當然這個B的部分當然是也經過這個分類處理 篩分那因為台中的土質大部分都屬於軟硬石層那其實它很多是有加料有加料的部分當然有一些都可以直接A到C那另外剛剛講那個最終去處我還是要報告一下那目前來講台中港剛委員所催旬了那我們院裡面也跟港公司積極協調現在目前來講115年就近年底 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12643.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12667.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
這個比較多的143萬房子部分可以來處理短期的之間我們是用這個戰事場戰事場的部分這個港務公司他也提供這個五公頃的土地但是這部分台中市政府必須要跟港務公司兩個來共同來談怎麼樣去收 怎麼樣收費然後怎麼樣去做後續的這個處理這個上次在副院長的會議也有談到這個事情組長稍等 部長部長我想問你一下 部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12668.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12686 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
你聽一下你們署長剛剛講的當然一切都很合法 都很合理但是我還是沒回答到我的核心問題就是說今天你們公佈的這個政策大家都支持包含GPS 帳篷S 其他會有所謂雙軌並行這大家都支持 沒問題但今天最核心的問題是因為我沒有C我沒有最終去處置的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12686.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12704.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
台北港有三千萬 高雄有七百萬台中不管你是要暫置還是要最終處分就是那個兩三百萬的數字看起來是有這數字沒錯但是因為此時此刻是沒有的那沒有的時候你們提出這個政策的時候你們沒有辦法把中部的這些土方找到去處啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12705.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12719.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
那這個東西要怎麼處理此時此刻要怎麼辦呢報告委員是這樣子我想台中市政府非常明白我們現在的一個運送的機制包括A到C我們也支持台中市政府可以用直接交換這個你大概了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12720.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12735.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
那在中部地區當然目前如果比較急的狀況之下他要運送到台北港那我們願意協助那再來一個就是說在中部地區的其他經濟部所屬的工業區那現在經濟部也正在盤點當中譬如說張濱工業區這些部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12737.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12765.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
所以我們今天下午呢會再針對非六都的部分再請教一下就是整體出土量比較少的地區他們在處理這個土石方的運送機制上面有什麼困難我們一起來解決那還有一個剛那個很多委員在問的就是說如果現在工地已經開挖是不是有這個公安的問題的話這個部分呢公共工程比較沒有太大困難那私人的民間的方向的話呢我們會提供在 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12767.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12770.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
都市計畫我請署長跟您回應一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12772.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12798.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
我們在都市計畫區裡面會來盤點現在就是就土地使用管制上因為只要如果在地方自治條例或定相關的規定就可以來處理排除這個目前土地使用管制的一些問題這個目前在行政院都有來協調但是要縣市政府能夠提出他的自治規定或是自治管理這樣子我們才會知道如何去這個歸管所有的這些土石方的去處不要造成環保問題或公安問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12798.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12819.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
部長你講的都是就是中長期的問題啦我今天講的是說像你們剛剛提到說經濟部有些地方可以使用包含說漳濱工業區甚至上禮拜的協調會面提到說我們有一個工業區的北方北部有一塊地它可以使用但是這個土地的使用權土地的所有者都是中央部會包含說經濟部包含各單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12820.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12842.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
所以這部分我也希望說內政部因為你們訂了這樣子的規定出來是由內政部來幫忙協調說這個地方能不能暫時的堆置先解燃煤池因為就是我講的嘛因為你們給台中的方案是到115年底一定要在同樣的都市計畫區剛剛有提到所以我說讓地方政府來處理有關這個自治規定的時候讓我們知道不能造成環保或者是其他的公安問題的話我們會來協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12844.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12861.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
好那下午就等你們的方案好不好我們希望你們幫我們要找到對方的地方至少這一年可以嗎OK好謝謝謝謝黃建豪委員的質詢接下來我們請高金素美委員發言謝謝趙偉有請園民會主委請曾主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12875.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12901.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
曾主委其實本席在這邊質詢您一直以來都是用非常溫暖的口氣在質詢您可是您就任到現在我發現本席辦公室跟您辦公室跟園民會的互動越來越差要的資料你們越來越不給然後時間還很長我希望今天主委在這邊答應我 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12902.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12910.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
也公開的跟我的辦公室說希望未來我要的資料我們的互動不要像錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12913.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12940.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
您就任之後這麼糟糕 可以嗎可以 我想這個一定會要求來我不知道裡面到底是出了什麼狀況我曾經非常善意的提醒我希望主委你能夠撤換一些失職的幕僚可是到目前為止你還繼續使用這些錯誤的幕僚做錯誤的判斷而這位錯誤的幕僚其實各個地方的原住民的族人都知道他是誰 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12941.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12950.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
我希望今天質詢完畢了之後主委回去能夠請他收斂好好做好他幕僚的工作而不是私底下的主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12951.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12971.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
好嗎好我們會特別要求修正好我要幾個問題就問您第一個身份法之亂最近身份法之亂當初修法也是你們園民會自己提的而這部法在111年就修好了當時給你們三年的緩衝是可以準備的 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12972.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12986.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
然後這三年中好好的跟族人說明你怎麼樣要做什麼樣的事情就不會喪失你原住民的身分可是現在已經快到了我們的族人陷入非常恐懼並且在慌張中度過 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12989.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12992.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
我們可以看一些數據一直到1月5號新北、桃園、花蓮仍然有超過600個人還沒有更正所以整體來說還有4440人面臨要喪失他原住民的身份的風險 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
13011.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
13015.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
主委三年的準備期怎麼會搞到最後一刻好像是連滾帶爬的你可以簡單說明一下為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
13020.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
13043.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
好 謝謝委員我想這個能夠就是說自己的族名還有就是這個轉變成原住民的身分除了就是說個人又有很強烈的這個這個欲望之外那想我們也都有通知掌握我們有掌握好這4000多個人我們已經通知了生年了耶那還通知不好然後還沒有辦法辦完 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
13046.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
13064.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
主委你們不要在這邊撇清整人我在這裡有三件事情要你們趕快做第一件立刻規劃用書面逐一通知真正的當事人然後讓我們真正要申請的族人盡快辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
13065.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
13087.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
而不用申請的 我們的族人他可以安心第二個 立即跟護證師橫向整出 訂出雙軌的宣導機制第三 2月5號 之前2月5號快到了 今天已經是1月幾號了所以你們大概還有不到半個月的時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
13088.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
13105.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
我希望你們每一週能夠到我的國會辦公室裡面來做說明報告最新的進度還有它的完成率因為你們既然沒有辦法自己去完成三年當中沒有辦法完成那就讓我的辦公室來督促你們 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
13106.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
13123.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
好不好好這個這剛剛委員要求這三項我們即刻就OK好最後我要講的是2月5號族人如果沒有完成他的這個處理的這個身份他會不會喪失原住民的身份如果會的話誰來負責他暫時會會喪失那 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
13129.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
13147.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
可以即刻再來所以你的意思是說2月5號以後族人沒有辦理的他以後還是還可以辦理可以是這樣的意思嗎還是可以沒有影響他日後的生計你要確定喔不然我們的族人以後去申辦的時候不能的話那這個責任你要負責第二個禁法補償的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
13152.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
13162.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
金髮補償 主委你知道嗎現在是影響我們的族人中低收入戶的資格喔你知不知道非常嚴重知道嗎 主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
13163.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
13171.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
我知道這個我們在12月中旬的時候也有特別就是跨部會來看這個問題怎麼解決所以你們也要解決要要好我在這邊提醒你禁法補償的本質是因為國家禁止了我們的族人利用他的保留地原保地然後讓本來有經濟價值的土地他被剝奪了所以呢必須要用補償兩個字補償來彌補 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
13192.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
13212.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
可是目前這個補償金的金額也僅僅只能夠填補族人土地被政府不當限制的部分損失而已喔雖然從3萬塊提高到6萬塊但是不是很多人的族人他的土地面積很大喔可是你們知道嗎你們跟衛福部說這筆錢是因為維護國土保安他要算收入 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
13216.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
13244.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
所以現在我們的衛福部就把我們這個金髮補償的補償金他納入我們族人的所得認定所以影響到了我們的族人的中低收入的資格主委要解決吧我知道這個很嚴重那我們也會跟這個豪務部還有衛福部還有財政部相關部會我們在12月17號就有召開第一次希望我們來我們會很嚴肅的共同來檢討這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
13246.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
13262.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
好其實呢本席呢在這個禮拜就要召開一個協調會了我請園民會你務必要站在族人的立場不要扭曲為一般收入金髮補償不是一般收入它是政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
13263.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
13283.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
因為讓原住民的土地不能使用所以它是補償補償是不可以變成收入的知道嗎好 希望你們記得如果你們不站在主任的立場我希望主委你們要有人負責這件事情我們會站在主任的立場好 謝謝第三個我就是要講的是就業貸金還有中發基金的 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
13285.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
13299.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
我們的就業代就是督促我們的廠商要僱用原住民對嗎然後他不僱用的話他就易注錢進入到我們的專款那我們看一下這個數字113年722件你們只處理了22件啊連一成都不到短收了多少2.5億然後我再跟你說111年到113年整個加起來也只半了一半 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
13315.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
13330.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
短收5.4億 主委5.4億很大筆的錢數目對不對 主委對5.4億對園民會對族人來講是很大的一筆收入我要講的是因為你們的不作為短收了5.4億族人的就業權益受損 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
13333.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
13357.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
我在這邊要非常的嚴肅的說不知道你們在圖利廠商還是你們在欺負我們自己的族人呢主委請您回答一下什麼時候把短收的5.4億給收回來委員可以讓我說明一下那跟委員報告一下這個5億多絕對不會是短收只是說現在就是因為我們帶進的人手不足但是我們今年的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
13358.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
13369.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
我們的那個法務有增加一名但是我們今年也換了一個新的廠商我要糾正你不是短收那是什麼這個本來就是要應該沒有用在原住民的身上你要給他罰款啊你要收回來啊你沒有收回來啊會會收回來會對啊你什麼時候收回來請問所以我們現在就是一直在趕111跟112年的部分那我們這個部分因為都還是在5年之內的那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
13386.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
13390.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
那個收款的那個範圍之內所以這個一定會收回來不會轉收現在是114 我們的人力會加強114年了 你還告訴我你要收回111跟112 113 114呢對 我們現在已經有在努力了什麼時候 努力多久了呀113年722件 你們只處理了22件 主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
13413.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
13435.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
你是不是要趕快要做趕快告訴我什麼時候收回我們會在今年的時候再加強加強如果今年沒有全部收回怎麼辦誰要負責任報告委員會努力因為這個還要去做一個調查不接受 主委請他不要說話 您說我給你看數據113年722件只處理了22件連一成都不到然後你們這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
13442.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
13458.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
早就清楚知道要增加人力 對吧你們都一直不增加人力一直到現在5.4億都沒有收回來然後你們現在還告訴我說你們要努力我不接受 我的族人也不接受告訴我什麼時候收回我想這個短期內這一兩年內我們會很用力的來主委我不要你這個回答 我不接受了 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
13471.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
13477.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
113年722件 只處理了22件 連一層都不到111年到113年 加總只辦了一半所以 請你告訴我時間我不要接受盡全力 請你告訴我時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
13493.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
13517.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
好那我也就是從現在開始算我希望說我們在一年內好這也是一個答案我不要盡全力我要的是一年內把這個5.4億的就業貸金給我收回來如果沒有辦法收回來的話你們要負政治責任好嗎好接著我要跟您說的是我們的中發基金中發基金我們要做些什麼事 諸位 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
13527.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
13551.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
很多這個 我在上面給你看金融的業務等等中發基金對我們援助民族的權益來說很重要對吧 處長你要不要幫主委說話一下我們中發基金要做些什麼事中發基金的話就是主要在資金的隆通信用的保證以及等於是那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
13552.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
13569.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
有關對於原住民的溫泉還有一些土地利用限制的一個補償收入去做處理好 在今年你們終於出面承認105到113年的基金累積是短處了68.73億 對嗎而本席非常的負責幫你們提出組決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
13579.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
13596.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
然後這個組決議是要求行政院分三年必須要撥補22.91億元可是我們看到今年行政院只給你們了5億硬生生就少給了18億我的族人聽好 綜合發展基金 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
13597.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13616.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
縱使身為一個立法委員提出了組決議行政院還是不在乎原住民的綜合發展基金然後硬生生給少給了18億我要請問一下綜合基金的這個23.4億的缺口你們要怎麼補 主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13620.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13635.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
儲蓄互助社是原住民最重要的一個互助社有很多的基金因為這個不足而影響到了族人的權益所以呢你們要怎麼處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13636.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
13657.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
除序互助社這個業務其實就在佔我們這個中華基金其實超過百分之十很重要的一個業務因為原住民的貸款都是在跟他們在做貸款除序互助社跟原住民有相當很深的關係所以這個業務我們會持續的來給協助那你這個缺口怎麼補 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13659.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13666.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
今年是先補充5億我想我們還仍然要跟主席總書記錄來爭取什麼時候跟他爭取那個會持續就是說在今年度會再跟行政院如果不剝足的話你們是不是會正式跟主任報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13679.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13689.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
我們會跟主席總署來拜託他們就說應該就是按照我們當時的這個決議是不是要補足這個金額所以你要跟院長說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13692.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13717.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
綜合發展基金很重要請我們的執政黨 民進黨政府不要一方面說很照顧原住民一方面該補足的都不補足然後主決議明明已經定了他還不按照主決議的模式來撥補給我們園民會園民會不准再穿小鞋了好嗎 主委 硬起來好 繼續最後一個問題園文會傳統季影季主語節目 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
13725.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13742.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
這個問題我聽說是賴總統很想做世界原住民傳統運動會但是呢我們的總統又不給錢因此呢你們用國家語言整體發展方案原住民族主語節目影音製作的計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13743.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13749.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
然後呢你們把這個要製作強化族語發展跟節目自製能力的錢拿來掛羊頭賣狗肉然後就去辦什麼跟族語毫無相關的運動會這不僅僅是公然亂用經費 更是掏空我們族語的振興啊 主委你怎麼說明我跟委員報告這有關這個族語的這個文化 族語的文化他有含有很多的面向那其實辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13773.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13778.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
這個藉這個活動來辦這樣的事情你這個活動叫 你這個計畫名稱叫什麼 請問跨國族語節目直播跨國族語節目直播為什麼你們原民會對外宣傳都是說原住民世界運動會 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13794.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13807.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
滯波跟運動會有什麼關係你知道一旦用運動會這個名稱他就必須要有另外的科目而且只要是運動會對於來參加競技比賽的這些族人尤其是學生他可以作為評量成績 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
13814.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
13827.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
然後呢你如果是運動會你就得發揮縣政府的力量鄉公所的力量甚至於公部門的力量甚至於你原民會的力量都要來可是你是自播節目啊自播節目啊而且你還自播的六集花了多少錢我跟大家報告8500萬8500萬自播了六集的節目 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
13843.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
13851.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
然後這六集的節目呢本來這個8500萬留下來是因為王宏威的揭弊 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13853.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13867.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
因為有些要去製播節目的很清楚的給了委外別人引起了很大的風波因此8500萬被保留下來而我們的園民會就用這個8500萬去討好賴清德總統賴清德總統應該要給我們辦運動會的錢不辦然後用這個8500萬去辦然後跟大家報告8500萬裡面有九成外包 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13882.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
13908.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
所以我都說 原文會你們是外包能力的單位啊原文會你們有原住民電視台耶你們連直播都不要用自己耶然後你們把所有的錢都拿去委外這個廠商去辦活動辦什麼活動 原住民世界日然後這原住民世界運動會呢辦了非常浮華 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
13909.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
13921.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
然後政治人物都去謝謝賴總統政治人物都去台上講話唯獨高金樹梅沒去原因我清楚知道這是賴總統想辦的但是卻不給錢這筆錢要強化族語發展提升自治能力 對吧 主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
13929.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
13954.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
好 結果進九層 7500萬全部用在辦活動5500萬發包給廠商然後這些廠商把所有拍過來的東西然後再交給園民會 園文會園民會再去把它剪出來變成六集所謂的應該說是什麼 節目這世界原住民的自播節目 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
13956.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
13983.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
好厲害喔主委來沒關係我們請那個處長簡單說一下因為這是你的教文處的業務簡單的說明我想在我們核定補助園文會的3億7百萬的主委方案的經費裡面他其實就有一個我知道正式四年計畫蘇貞昌院長在的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
13984.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
13997.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
合併的 我們都很希望有合併政筆計畫好好用來組織方案 可是沒想到8500萬到最後要被執行的時候被王洪威接筆接出來 因此8500萬被保留了 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
13999.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
14019.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
在他的整個國語方案原文會所提出來的製作的策略裡面他有一個第七項就是要做跨國族語節目的直播對 跨國族語的直播跟世界原住民運動會有什麼關係我想他的方式是透過運動會的方式來做直播節目的內容那在坊間其實也有很多的這樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
14021.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
14037.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
那你們原民會應該宣傳的是原住民族族語節目影音製作計畫你們應該是要這樣子宣傳然後你們要這樣做宣傳的時候來的所有的族人是不是應該要有節目的參與費 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
14039.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
14042.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
因為我是製播節目我是來自於演藝圈啊你讓我來製播你這個節目他不是競技選手欸他是來參與你這個節目欸每一個人來參與的人應該要拿到一些經費吧車馬補助費吧然後一些補貼費吧我是演員我要有應該要有啊我的主任拿到了沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
14060.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
14072.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
這些各組的選手來參加這個節目還是說運動會的執勤其實他們都有相關的提供車碼 住宿費都是由這個節目的經費來支應好 這個節目經費是給個人還是給縣市政府還是給鄉公所 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
14076.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
14090.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
其實是由縣市政府來帶轉給我們的各組是園民會給還是園文會給園文會給還是這些外包的廠商在節目的製作節目裡面給是由園文會來指引的好 我也跟你們要了好久的資料我也開了兩次的會議處長 我可以在這邊要求你 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
14094.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
14114.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
以後你們要做什麼事情就大方的跟族人報告這是節目影音製作計畫這不是世界運動會原住民世界運動會因為您很清楚只要是運動會就有競技對吧有競技就一定會有獎金對吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
14114.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
14131.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
有獎金他一定會有一些獎狀對吧這些獎狀還可以用為孩子的評量的成績可是這次是完全沒有是因為他不是運動會因為呢他是影音製作計畫你們要剪六集 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
14131.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
14141.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
然後來核銷這個蘇貞昌院長以前核定的四年經費而且很奇怪喔 除了8500萬之外你們園民會還有52名的正式人力資源3到5天然後你們園民會自己又出了46萬多的出差費然後你們的媒體宣傳費花了多少錢我現在跟你要資料 也沒有資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
14157.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
14179.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
然後主任也告訴我說我們的相公所被要求派員參加我們的主委老師被要求要支援現場來幫忙然後主委老師的費用是從哪裡出的是從8500萬出的呢還是教文處你另外就補給這些主委老師呢這些我現在也都沒有拿到資料因為今天時間時間已經沒有那麼多了我可不可以要求園民會主委跟處長 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
14187.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
14210.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
以後賴總統要辦原住民世界運動會請賴總統跟行政院自己出錢給原民會辦理不要用原民會的公務預算裡面因為我們沒有這個科目也不要用族語的這些錢拿去做包裝做世界原住民運動會讓我們的原住民的族人一頭霧水可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
14214.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
14221.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
可以但是我跟委員講就是說辦世界民主運動會也不是說是特別總統交代或者是院長交代 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
14221.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
14227.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
因為我們跟這些那誰想做的因為我們跟這些南島語系的國家既然這會是主委你想做的事情我也沒有不同意你做所以麻煩你們直接在你們要送出預算的時候就說每年你要辦這件事情每年要辦這件事情經費怎麼來要有多少錢請你們明白的寫出來不要再這樣子掛羊頭賣狗肉好不好主委好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
14256.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
14260.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
謝謝高晶素梅委員的質詢 接下來我們請徐欣盈委員發言謝謝主席 本席有請劉部長有請部長部長休息了一段時間現在這個再次上場部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
14284.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
14310.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
首先本席要就這個是你們內政部今天的報告沒有錯這個怎麼會篡改我們召委的題目召委今天專題報告的題目是賴清德總統新建13萬戶社會住宅政策無法落實之檢討我們內政部今天給的報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
14312.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
14335.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
上面是写当前新建社会住宅政策之挑战检讨与策进百万户租屋家庭支持计划精进方案好 我看你们这个精进方案这个该检讨不检讨你们的精进方案你们在报告里面写你们这百万怎么来的 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
14336.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
14356.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
你們應該很清楚真正社會住宅你就12萬戶然後包租代管10萬戶剩下全部都什麼租屋補貼所以這叫做什麼百分之這個百萬的精進方案90%就是發錢靠發錢10%靠蓋房所以第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
14362.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
14389.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
昭緯我們真的不能不能夠這樣藐視國會昭緯定的題目他們直接改掉直接改掉那第二個就是好啊這個百萬精進方案我們90%靠發錢那現在是不是在你們的百萬戶KPI裡面發了租金補貼你就算是達成了一戶社會住宅的業績你們是不是打算這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
14391.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
14410.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
是不是回答就可以是或不是报告委员包租贷款也是社会住宅政策的一环而且写在住宅法里面对我知道所以您刚讲的算法是有错误的包租贷款大概10万户对那你们主要靠租金补贴那租金补贴其实你没有这些经济方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
14410.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
14438.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
大概從人類歷史以來開始大概應該有幾十年都有這個租金那你現在就是用一個租金補貼撒錢的方式發錢90%那來創造這個所謂的百萬戶因為這是最穩健的社會住宅而且能夠達到來補助比較經濟弱勢的族群尤其是在六都裡面租屋補貼我們不反對 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
14440.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
14459.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
而是你們的講法百萬戶這個我們不得不懷疑這個為了今年的選舉做的數字工程這不是真正的居住正義那沒關係你現在這個百萬戶我們接著看你們合訂了你們這個租屋補貼合訂了91萬戶結果只撥款了65萬戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
14465.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
14487.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
那其中還有2.5萬戶是義領然後你們現在開始追殺所以我先就叫部長你這個核定91萬戶結果累計撥款65萬戶請問消失的26萬戶是怎麼回事報告委員他第一個大概是不符合現有的資格或者是說他在資格變動 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
14488.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
14500.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
不符合資格那你核定91萬戶 這怎麼回事我們的平台有兩個 一個是地方政府 一個是中央政府中央政府在複合的過程當中 我們也來把關剛剛有提到 譬如說他可能是某一個單一政府在這個核定的時候並沒有考慮他有跨縣市的一個房產 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
14511.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
14522.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
或者是跨縣市的身分別那這個部分呢我們也會做處理也就是說現在租金補貼裡面違規議領的情形都是因為申請人個人條件的變動比較多議領是後面我只是說你核定91萬戶有撥款65萬戶有26萬戶消失我先談這個議領後面我會談這26萬戶怎麼回事就是有人會重複啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
14540.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
14562.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
因為租金補貼我剛有提到如果是單一縣市政府他可能住新竹縣但是他新竹縣跟新竹市兩個都申請重複的去掉還有呢還有什麼情況我是不是請我們組長跟你們回應一下比較多的那報告委員那還有一些譬如像寒暑假那因為他學生他如果學校畢業了他就沒有來申請了 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
14563.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
14572.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
沒有來申請你核定幹嘛那前面會有核定就在一個年度裡面他會有變動還有就業所以一個是資格一個重複申請還有就是有變動有資格變動就這兩個所以這樣就26萬戶大部分的原因是這樣子我看你們是不是可以把這個相關的你們會後還是要給我一個報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
14590.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
14599.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
好那接著接著部長那剛剛您急著回答的2.5萬戶疫齡那我有看到你們的報告裡有寫 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
14601.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
14622.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
這個申請人資格還有租屋情況的異動那我在這裡我要問的是這中間有沒有是因為我們政府效能政府的執行力不彰系統勾結太慢所以才會造成有這2.5萬的問題啊這一塊我們行政單位有沒有可以再加強的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
14623.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
14645.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
當然我剛有特別跟委員報告過因為在租補的這個申請條件當中我們都是授權給地方政府那地方政府跟中央政府之間的勾結當然就會出現時間差授權地方政府應該是今年度接下來之前應該都中央吧沒有已經地方在開始了對已經地方協助了所以才會跳增這麼快 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
14649.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
14663.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
那這第一個就是說行政的效能跟行政的執行力我們希望再加強這個我們來檢討對第二個本心要為這一些義領追角的人我們可能也要替他們來說一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
14665.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
14679.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
他除非他是惡意的詐領否則如果有一些經濟弱勢戶因為你們說的這些理由你要去追繳本來就應該但是是不是可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
14680.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
14702.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
有給他分期還款是 我們已經你們有在進行對 或者是但是報告委員但是如果他是乍領的話恐怕就不合乍領就不行對 乍領的我們絕對不行那有一些因為就像你們說的申請人資格或是有一些租屋情況的異動因為一個月假設我們有4000到6000不等 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
14703.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
14723.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
4000一年就是假設他這個義領一年就將近五萬塊對一般人來說有的時候五萬塊對他來說可能也是一筆負擔臨時要他拿出來一筆他可能難所以分期還款或者是社福轉介免責的這種機制有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
14724.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
14739.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
這些我們都會跟地方政府來勾結那剛委員所關心的部分那個署長有提到如果真的有經濟上的困難的話分12期我們也可以介紹對 給他們分期 對12期好 OK好 那再來再來我們看到這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
14741.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
14757.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
有關我們社會住宅我們看到報告第二頁說未來的新辦重點在北北桃中北北桃中 那很明顯是在直轄市那我們想要了解那請問基隆跟竹竹苗為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
14758.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
14777.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
我想這個是從租金補貼裡面所申請的這個數目還有我們看它的人口結構的部分所以你們的新辦重點不是社會住宅興建的重點原先在蔡總統時代已經興建十幾萬戶那是全台灣各地都有我想您也知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
14778.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
14804.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
那現在呢我們在要繼續精進的方案的時候我們認為啊有這個需求的會集中在北北桃中那這是從租金補貼裡面得到說為什麼他要申請租金補貼未來在社會住宅包括包租代管的話是以這個為主再加上這四個這四個縣市這四個直轄市政府他們的土地最稀缺也最是淡亡區也就是大部分的人最需要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
14805.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
14822.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
那既然有大部分人最稀求的這個部分的話呢我們就必須要跟這個四個市政府來一起來討論那同時呢我們也了解包括桃園或者是新北市政府的首長他們也都了解這個部分所以我們常常會漏掉一個我們採取的是多元興辦社會住宅 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
14823.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
14840.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
包括除了樹地以外還有包括都更或者是其他的分回等等這些都會列為我們為未來要取得社會住宅土地或是取得社會住宅的戶數裡面的重要的一個方向而且都會集中在這一大的生活圈為主 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
14842.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
14856.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
部長你剛剛有講土地稀缺或者是他們的租金比較高之類的不是租金比較高土地真的不容易取得其實新竹縣市也是 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
14858.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
14883.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
當然新竹縣市它已經被列為大家應該知道竹北市也是這樣所以我們還是希望你們還是要要特別再評估一下以北北桃中為主但是不是表示其他的沒有跟委員報告以竹那其他有那你那個是怎麼分現在我們仍然在持續盤點就是說比較重要的對我就知道你會說盤點但是呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
14886.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
14915.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
真的不要忽略基隆跟新竹縣市这些都也是非常都会区的他们的需求还有这些通勤族他们的压力所以我们也要特别争取基隆竹竹新竹縣市特别是您说的淡黄区其实你去看全台的淡黄区绝对有新竹县的竹北市我们要请部长还是要再重视好谢谢 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
14920.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
14939.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
謝謝徐姓委員的質詢接下來請黃國昌委員黃國昌委員黃國昌委員不在現在請羅廷偉委員發言有請國土署署長還有部長謝謝請劉部長還有國土署代理署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
14953.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
14954.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
還有部長 謝謝好 部長還有署長我想土方之亂大家網路不斷地在報導 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
14966.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
14987.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
我會關心最主要是因為我們在地方爭取了自來水管線的工程汰換前陣子停工到後面現在已經有知名的企業出來喊話土方之亂有可能造成美瓶再貴五萬元最後受害的是所有的 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
14988.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
15004.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
我們這些年輕家庭也好買房的人也好這讓我們非常擔憂啊如果這樣子的一個狀況不加以改善而且是超緊急改善不是中長期這些所謂的成本都會轉嫁到消費者 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
15005.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
15031.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
我們剛剛也聽到其他的委員在關心我們現在不管是最終處置也就是西以及我們現在看到台中所提出的替代方案也就是台中的這個台中港那這個部分的大概有提出了部分來做站置那剛剛部長你有提到如果要運到台北台北港那邊來做處理是可以接受的是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
15034.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
15058.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
海運的部分喔那可是這些人就問一句話當他運到台北的時候海運的部分這中間的運費一定會有一些多的成本出來請問中央會補助嗎如果是公共工程的話那很抱歉我跟委員報告我們要一個概念我們現在在處理這個部分是為了以前不合法的 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
15060.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
15074.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
處置方向那我們現在要把它拉正回來要怎麼樣合法的處置方向所以有業者提到說要增加那以前如果他們亂堆亂置的時候後續的環境保護所花費的恐怕是十倍百倍不止 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
15075.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
15092.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
所以我覺得他們應該了解這個狀況署長我在跟你在江副院長開會的時候當時你有提到台中其實早在110年就有做GPS而且在當時這樣的政策之下台中的處理狀況是相對比較好的對吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
15094.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
15110.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
是 對吧 報告委員我們目前的話就是台中跟我們就是雙軌並行我們現在是講GPS我知道 雙軌並行你先回應我嘛台中是不是早在110年就已經有做GPS相對應的做追蹤所以台中的這個部分是不是做得比較好嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
15111.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
15140.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
報告委員但是台中只處理到BC的部分他沒有處理你剛剛就說是了然後現在又轉口那C的部分也是因為你處理的量能不夠你增加C我沒有問題我跟你講今天我們都支持你的方案不管你雙軌制或者是你要怎麼處理都沒有關係但今天我也不是在幫這些運到台北的業者講話我是怕他所有的成本轉嫁到最後消費者那這個部分難道 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
15141.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
15168.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
你不承擔業者也不承擔最後是誰承擔我們全民都知道全民承擔所以今天我不是要你硬著頭皮掏錢給他們而是台中的配套超短期的一個救濟是不是應該先出來所以他們有說是不是暫緩三個月暫緩六個月有的人覺得兩個月都不可能等 為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
15169.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
15196.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
因為你自己也知道現在已經開挖到一半這些地下室如果經過一場大雨造成整個內部崩落旁邊林房的損失我再問一句可以申請國賠嗎他因為你的政策停工所以大雨來了眼巴巴的看著他就是內部剝落那請問林房倒塌算 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
15198.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
15226.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
這個企業的還是算你的報告委員這個我知道我們公安的意外的部分我們也非常非常的重視所以在我們今天下午跟各地方政府開會我希望你們好好討論因為你一直在講今年能夠提供對不起不是今年年底我們只要從現在開始一場大雨就好就會造成挖到一半的地下室導致公安危機請問一下這可以用年來算嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
15228.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
15250.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
所以我們還是呼籲今天你們下午的會議超短期的配套不管是要做一個暫緩也好不管是要做一個臨時的暫制也好你們都應該要提出來而且當天會議我們有一直在追如果他自己還有其他的土地自己還有其他土地他做暫制可不可以是 我們現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
15250.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
15279.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
就希望透過地方的自治條例或是定地相關規定來處理現在不只是地方自治條例地方自治條例也是說嘛兩個月三個月的時間嘛有沒有其他的配套方式他自己有自己的土地有多的他拿來佔置這個部分你們來做一個控管是 這個只要能夠管理的好我們都可以支持所以你配套出來啊是是是 好不好所以下午我們一起討論 是所以部長剛剛我所提到的我知道你有意願要改善可是絕對不是半年 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
15280.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
15298.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
絕對不是好幾個月我們也了解就是會有這種臨時要處理的狀況那我也跟委員報告就是說在臨近我們那個在上次開會的時候已經解決跨區運送像譬如說台中的北部是北邊是苗栗或者是南部有其他的地區好像是 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
15299.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
15327.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
彰化還是哪裡都會有土資廠的餘裕這是一個那另外一個就是說我們會想要解決就是您剛所提到如果他現在有公安問題要處理的話在毗鄰土地上面要在同一區這區位怎麼做確認不會影響到環保跟公安的問題的話我們會透過譬如說台中市政府他的自治規定或者他的自治管理規則把它明定進去的話就可以暫時解決您剛所提到這個困擾 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
15328.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
15357.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
好 部長我們還是要定調土方的問題不是營造業單獨的問題因為它有可能衍生到公安還有所謂的民眾轉嫁成本最後導致我們現在的住屋又漲價這就是錯誤的政策這個到住屋蓋完之前還有一段距離不過我跟委員報告一定是還有一段時間但我們都知道業者很聰明一定會轉嫁到消費者報告委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
15357.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
15375.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
我們不容許不合法的土資去向這個是大家共識性非常高的所以我們要怎麼樣解決除了中長城計畫大家不反對以外短期的部分我們已經解決跨區要能夠清運這一個然後再來就是毗鄰的土地怎麼做定義 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
15376.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
15390.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
還有一個就是說我們可不可以擴大就是說他在榮受這個土石方的時候所謂叫公益性譬如說他是市地重劃或者是區段徵收那這個可不可以變成是公益性的收容周榮土石方這個可以討論沒關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
15391.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
15413.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
那所以我剛剛跟委員報告的部分就是說如果大家願意一起解決尤其我們在開會的時候啊這個大部分的縣市政府尤其是很多這個直轄市政府都有表達同樣的意見跟建議那他們也跟我們站在同樣的立場我們不希望業者採取觀望或是緩衝這樣的手段因為這樣子只是把問題往後越堆積越嚴重 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].start |
15414.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].end |
15438.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].text |
好另外我要跟部長在討論的是今天我們先把話說重一點年輕人就是被民進黨給騙了因為選前講的一套選後做的就是另外一套我想我手機這個影片大家都看過多年前一個大學生在詢問賴清德總統你的社會住宅的政策很難執行他說13萬戶沒有問題甚至還說 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].start |
15441.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].end |
15471.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].text |
他的政策比蔡英文總統的更有力我想賴清德總統在選舉時對年輕人對社會說得很清楚該要蓋社會住宅今天我們不要再講說住宅法裡面把包租貸款也放在裡面了就很清楚賴清德總統說的今天我們到底是要看賴清德總統說的還是要看住宅法的一個圓融的一個界定那你告訴我要看法 法比較大那立法院所訂定的法你們又不執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].start |
15472.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].end |
15486.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].text |
所以賴清德總統當時一直不斷地講讓年輕人有地方住敢成家敢生孩子現在這不是模糊的承諾這個是很明確的政治承諾但是現在政府現在對外說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].start |
15487.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].end |
15504.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].text |
不再蓋這麼多的社會住宅要改以包租代管我待會來就教大家你們心中自有一把尺租金補貼作為主力並聲稱這也是社會住宅我承認這是社會住宅的一環但這是社會住宅嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].start |
15505.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].end |
15516.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].text |
講白一點就是要把原本承諾蓋的房子改成用補貼嘛所以你們現在一直強調包租代管也是社會住宅對不起我不能夠接受那我就問一個最基本的問題請部長回應我 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].start |
15522.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].end |
15546.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].text |
拜託你你說包租代管你說租金補貼就是社會住宅那請問一下我們如果實際蓋了社會住宅他會留下來公共資產政府對於房源有長期的掌握但是包租代管但是租金補貼房子是私人的房東說不租就不租 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].start |
15547.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].end |
15575.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].text |
那請問一下這兩者的制度上就有本質的差異不能混為一談今天我也遇到我們一直在修法租金補貼一定要給所謂的房東房客更多的機會來作為溝通的橋樑最後所謂的公益出租者能夠租金來做補貼以後部分的稅金能夠減免 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].start |
15576.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].end |
15600.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].text |
讓房客更容易申請那我想請問一下部長今天如果房客正要租房您是房東啊你直接明確的表達對不起如果你要申請租金補貼我不會我連跟你簽約都還沒簽約只是詢問我可不可以就說那你可能可以找別人那請問這樣子我們可不可以申訴對方 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].start |
15601.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].end |
15604.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].text |
都完全沒有任何契約產生了那對嘛 講得這麼簡單房子沒有這麼好找 地點就這些地方不是所有人的人都可以領得到租金補貼要有一定的身份 這個不用再救教我們現在都在討論的是租金補貼申請過程遇到的 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].start |
15623.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].end |
15639.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].text |
一些問題這個我們可以來協助這就是不接地氣嘛我們在第一層第一層遇到的民眾就跟我們反映啊說要申請租金補貼房東直接說掰掰不用聯絡報告委員台中市申請租金補貼的人數是全台灣最多的我們遇到更多的狀況喔不要說沒有遇到我講給大家聽啊房東直接跟他說喔你要申請租金補貼喔讚支持加油 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].start |
15653.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].end |
15678.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].text |
記得我會漲一些你要給我那請問你要怎麼處理委員檢舉他我當然知道檢舉他檢舉他有罰款我們修法檢舉他有罰款但是問題馬上下一次合約一到他就請他搬家這些問題要不要考量到這些租屋者的困境有沒有被我們給接觸到 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].start |
15679.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].end |
15695.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].text |
我們有修法我當然知道我們有修法但是這些租屋者的困境並沒有完全被解決所以今天我們為什麼在討論社會住宅的一個重要性因為政府就是房東能夠給予的一些幫助是更實際的 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].start |
15697.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].end |
15716.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].text |
而你告訴我們租金補貼包租貸款也是社會住宅但是本質上所謂的私人財產我們就沒辦法全面的解讀報告委員您弄錯了我剛所提到的社會住宅就是直接興辦跟包租貸款才是社會住宅租金補貼只是租金補貼反正你們今天就是不斷一直在整個社會住宅政策裡面幫助賴清德在包裝 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].start |
15724.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].end |
15736.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].text |
所以從今天你們改題目不尊重我們現在所訂定的題目到現在整個社會住宅轉為包租代管跟補貼是一個正確負責任的一個轉彎我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].start |
15741.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].end |
15760.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].text |
政府應該要跟年輕人講清楚說明白賴清德總統應該要親自跟所有的年輕人跟租屋者來做道歉更關鍵的是這個轉彎並不是因為政府做不到內政部自己在百萬戶租屋家庭支持計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].start |
15761.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].end |
15780.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].text |
草案當中早在2025年1月就已經盤點全國260處社會住宅用地面積約265公頃可以興建9.4萬戶的社會住宅並且明確說明持續滾動修正擴大供給但現在同一個政府面對社會大眾卻說土地不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].start |
15781.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].end |
15803.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].text |
社宅蓋在偏遠地區沒有人住我要問一下請問部長這些如果地方沒有人住當初為什麼要盤點這260處的盤點是各縣市各機關然後送給國土署的但是我們必須要做評估所以你是說因為地方政府的評估因為地方政府的盤點導致你們的政策錯誤囉導致當時正在競選總統的賴清德被這些錯誤的資訊給搞混了囉 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].start |
15810.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].end |
15815.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].text |
從他的嘴巴說出來我認為他應該要有責任這是他的一個政治承諾而且剛剛你有說盤點完以後你們會評估你們評估完了才會對外公佈嘛那當時他的政策小組難道沒有負責任嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].start |
15829.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].end |
15834.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].text |
還是先喊了再說所以我想請問內政部你可不可以有責任的公布這260處社會住宅用地我沒有說你今天沒有負責任部長今天你們面對的問題你們跟民眾清楚的表達 蓋不出來你負責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].start |
15858.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].end |
15877.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].text |
你負責任但是賴清德總統當時的承諾卻沒有告訴全民他錯了當時還這樣子回應那個大學生他做得到還回應那個大學生他的政策比蔡英文更有力所以我今天我不是譴責內政部啊我是譴責賴清德怎麼會透過內政部來幫你包裝 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].start |
15886.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].end |
15898.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].text |
政治的語言政治的承諾賴清德應該要出來道歉所以我剛剛在問內政部請問一下剛剛我們說的這200多處社會住宅可以公告嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].start |
15901.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].end |
15921.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].text |
我們本來就有盤點閒置的房地啊可不可以公布這些所有的用地在哪裡會後可不可以讓我知道一下這份資料沒有問題 但是也要跟委員報告這個必須要跟地方一起來協助才有可能共同推動我們的立場還是一樣 中央跟地方要一起合作而不是互相推諉 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].start |
15922.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].end |
15949.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].text |
我想具體的位置跟取得方式讓社會來檢視其中究竟有多少屬於市區可及的範圍又有多少原本是透過都市更新甚至是捷運聯合開發等方式取得住宅用地包括委員您的方向非常正確就是我們多元取得社會住宅的用地但我希望讓社會來檢視一下這相關的資料如果政府真的擔心需求不足我會給你時間為什麼不敢公開基地讓需求本身來說話為什麼寧可用推測 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].start |
15951.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].end |
15968.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].text |
用假設作為整個政策退縮的理由所以我們會持續不同的滾動檢討推出穩健的社會住宅政策這已經不是能力的問題了也不是條件不足的問題而是執政黨的選擇我們民進黨政府選擇不做而這樣的選擇最終承擔這些代價承擔後果的就是全台灣納稅人民 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].start |
15979.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].end |
16000.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].text |
我們既然賴清德做出的政治承諾已經無法兌現他也沒辦法出來向社會道歉那麼主管機關內政部部長劉部長國土署署長你們就應該為賴清德13萬戶社會住宅政策實際跳票負起政治的責任下台吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].start |
16002.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].end |
16018.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].text |
報告委員 很多直轄市長到目前為止也是一樣8年的直接興辦社宅數也是沒有達到他應該到達的數量那您是在說林佳龍嗎林佳龍真的沒有做到喔是不是公開譴責林佳龍了我要講的是現階段你要是接 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].start |
16026.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].end |
16029.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].text |
現階段你要直接玩這個文字優勢我沒有做到啊 別人也沒有做到啊這就是現在內政部長的一個態度啊我們的態度是中央跟地方要一起合作 我跟你講我們作為在野黨 我們作為執政 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].start |
16044.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].end |
16056.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].text |
應該要監督的一個角色對於所有政治的跳票我們都譴責但是竟然從內政部長嘴巴裡面說出來我們做不到別人也做不到啊別人也應該怎麼樣啊這樣子的一個態度我們更是不齒更是應該譴責啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].start |
16064.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].end |
16076.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].text |
中央跟地方本來就應該一起合作但是你剛剛的態度只是想要推卸責任讓全民看到我們現在的執政黨的態度就是這樣作為一個監督的角色我還是公開的再說一次我們都是同一套標準我們都一樣譴責但是現在我看到你就是說我沒有做到別人也沒有做到啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].start |
16088.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].end |
16107.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].text |
抱歉委員我沒有說出來我只有遺憾啦謝謝羅丁委員也謝謝部長OK好我們接下來謝謝羅丁委員的發言接下來我們中午不休息繼續開會接下來請林倩琦委員林倩琦委員不在吳立華委員請吳立華委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].start |
16123.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].end |
16126.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].text |
謝謝主席 有請園民會主委請正置位委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].start |
16134.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].end |
16160.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].text |
今天終於等到園民會的業務報告我也很驚訝就是這麼長的一段時間一直沒有看到園民會來做業務報告那每一次園民會來做業務報告的時候因為機會很難得所以我大概都會找十個議題來質詢那今天也不例外因為時間的關係也希望主委就是簡單的回答好嗎好 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].start |
16162.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].end |
16180.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].text |
談到原民會我覺得其中有一個很重要的任務功能就是要展現原住民文化的軟實力這也是我們國家的軟實力我們常常聽人家說或自己說原住民的文化有多好多好 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].start |
16181.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].end |
16200.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].text |
但是我們往往看不到對等的相稱的聲量這個是我們很遺憾的部分所以呢我先就世界原住民族運動會來說你看看這個圖片這個照片都不是我拍的是我call你們園民會的照片這個照片其實好多人看都覺得哇怎麼有這麼棒的運動會請教主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].start |
16210.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].end |
16230.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].text |
世界民族運動會你們辦完了之後有沒有開過檢討會有那檢討會可以給我一份報告嗎會那我跟您說我重整一下我自己的臉書或者是其他的社群軟體我大概聽到的都是第一為什麼總統沒有來請問下一次還會辦嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].start |
16234.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].end |
16250.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].text |
我們希望這個能夠兩年半一次兩年半一次 那就是116年對那總統會來嗎我們希望總統 我們特別的空總統的時間第二個 我聽到最多的就是說你們的宣傳很不夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].start |
16252.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].end |
16267.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].text |
好多人看到影片照片之後都嚇一跳說怎麼有這麼好的活動我們怎麼都不知道不是只有原住民這麼說連非原住民都這麼說所以請教一下這個宣傳經費多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].start |
16270.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].end |
16284.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].text |
大概是400萬400萬的宣傳經費那為什麼會搞得這麼多人都不知道因為這是第一次辦理所以我們總是有一些就是這個速度上沒有跟上這個部分我想我們會作為日後辦這個活動的檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].start |
16287.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].end |
16310.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].text |
那我就想知道了可是你剛剛已經有講了你說這個會延續性辦理是說兩年會辦一次是那請教一下會有這個科目嗎像明年要辦的話今年你們有列入科目要做預算了嗎明年度的預算我們會希望能夠把它就是說編列進去經費規模 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].start |
16313.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].end |
16336.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].text |
大概也就是跟今年的這個世界人民運動會大概是8000到8500萬那請教一下今年大家都說原來這筆經費是從原文會出來但是你們也有原語會甚至你們還有文化發展中心那你們覺得你們這三個單位未來是輪流辦嗎還是由原民會主辦嗎還是怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].start |
16338.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].end |
16358.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].text |
我跟委員報告這麼大的活動而且是就是說要動用這麼多的人力我想當然是園民會主辦我們不會把這個責任往外推因為辦得好辦得不好最後發包單位啊還是對是園羽會發包園文會發包還是文化中心發包園民會園民會發包然後動用你們所有的人力 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].start |
16366.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].end |
16384.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].text |
那我是希望說 既然是一個可以展現原住民文化的軟實力它的效益一定是非常大的所以這個部分我真的是很高興為什麼 我跟主委講我其實在五年前我就質詢過了 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].start |
16386.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].end |
16406.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].text |
但是我沒有想到在114年底竟然能夠成型辦出來然後看到三個月準備這樣的一個規模如果你讓我打分數已經及格了啦但是我們總覺得我們希望會更好 更完整那希望你們把它好好的規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].start |
16407.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].end |
16426.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].text |
在下一次我們看到的時候希望真的是不是只有讓我們的國人震驚我希望能夠震撼到全世界可以嗎可以好 謝謝那繼續我也要關心其實我在110年的時候3月即將滿5年 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].start |
16427.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].end |
16448.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].text |
我就有質詢什麼呢我很關心你們文化發展中心有一個國家樂舞團為什麼我這樣子笑來 你注意聽當時是怎麼樣子因為我們的組織文化中心的組織法寫著國家及原住民族樂舞團的設置規劃管理 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].start |
16451.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].end |
16472.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].text |
然後文化部有一個國立傳譯中心它的組織法也說會有這個聘用戲曲展演專業人員最多187人所以我在這個地方就有點想笑了國立傳譯中心的組織法說是聘用戲曲展演專業人員可是他們卻是法定預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].start |
16473.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].end |
16499.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].text |
然後呢文發中心組織法說是國家及原住民族樂舞團的設置規劃可是你們一直都是用計劃人力勞務採購所以我在110年就有問了那主委說會朝國家樂舞團的目標來推動而且還答應我說我要在一個月內提供我評估報告這個也是你們園民會很嚴重的問題我每次質詢說我要報告報告幾乎沒有拿到過報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].start |
16501.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].end |
16529.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].text |
就不把我們的質詢當一回事所以我想請教一下到底你們有沒有朝這個方向努力好 是不是先請吳化中心好 謝謝好 謝謝委員長期對這個議題的關心那麼這個議題就是我們哪路玩樂舞劇團要納入國家級定位的這個目標那麼一直是我們這幾年來重要的工作那麼主委在當初時任主任的時候就提出了這個計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].start |
16530.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].end |
16556.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].text |
那麼這個計畫我們在本會裡面已經做過很多次的討論那麼現在我們就是準備如果本會這邊對我們所提出的草案那麼大家就有共識的話就要準備送出本會然後進入一個正式的審議那請教主任您預估什麼時候這個國家級的樂舞團可以成立是 跟委員報告那麼上個禮拜我們也邀請行政院的人事長就是在主委的支持之下 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].start |
16557.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].end |
16577.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].text |
邀請任市長來我們園區那麼他也體認到我們園區這個樂舞劇團的重要性那麼也點出了一些方向那麼這個重點如下第一個那就是說希望國家對於這個舞團那個資源的挹注要穩定那麼第二個也希望這個舞台舞團未來的定位要維持它一定的自主性 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].start |
16578.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].end |
16592.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].text |
那麼至於達到這個目標的路有好幾種所以我們後續會跟本會還有跟行政院人事總署持續討論我也希望到我的辦公室跟我報告因為我關心這一題很久了我覺得為什麼我要這樣講 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].start |
16594.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].end |
16615.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].text |
我們主委在擔任文化發展中心主任的時候做了一件我很感動的事情除了申請那個綠珠雕琢計畫你們在去年也成立了新的歌舞展演場之外我比較感動的是他針對每一組去做歌舞劇特別是從冰唯雨組開始做起 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].start |
16617.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].end |
16638.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].text |
這個讓很多的濱維語族很有尊榮感甚至讓很多的年輕人回流我覺得這個是很重要的一件事那其實國家級的樂舞團他鼓勵的不是這些舞者而是鼓勵所有原住民的這些藝術家歌舞展演者我們也能夠成為國家級的表演者 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].start |
16638.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].end |
16662.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].text |
這個就是我講的每次都說原住民文化多好多好聲量不相稱我們看不到國家對他們尊重的做法這樣可以嗎是好 謝謝那另外一個部分我也是要特別提這個也是很多年前為什麼呢因為我在客家公共傳播基金會看到他們有做一個預算就是成立一個國立的客家兒童合唱團 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].start |
16665.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].end |
16690.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].text |
一年編1050萬現在多少我不知道那他們做什麼事呢他們跟兩廳院合作所以每一年都會讓客家兒童和唱團上去表演所以我幾年前也關注這個問題什麼時候我們原住民也可以有但是我關注是因為國際間唱原住民歌曲的團隊越來越少最主要的原因是我們沒有做出編曲 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].start |
16692.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].end |
16714.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].text |
如果我們有編曲全世界的管弦樂團 合唱團他們都可以來演出我們台灣的原住民各族的歌謠但是因為國家 原民會沒有帶頭做所以現在反而是客家啊 菲律賓啊哇 國際間反而是他們的歌越來越多現在都沒有人在唱我們的歌了所以原民會要重視這個問題那當然合唱團也好 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].start |
16718.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].end |
16741.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].text |
或者是青少年管弦樂團也好我是希望說園民會可以來主動去規劃甚至是一些跨校的團隊組織可以來補助因為我看到教文處長站出來 處長您有什麼看法謝謝 委員 您這個建議非常好其實因為我們現在原住民孩子善居在全台灣各地 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].start |
16742.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].end |
16765.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].text |
如果你要組成一個單一的國家的原住民管弦樂團他會有那個往返集訓孩子們的交通等等各方面問題所以在現階段要成立一個單一的團隊可能比較困難那我的建議是說我們可以鼓勵我們區域性的來組成這樣區域性的管弦樂團東區北區南區這樣他們就近可以來做練習未來也可以演出所以我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].start |
16766.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].end |
16790.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].text |
會來籌放那鼓勵各區來組隊我希望教文處可以主動來規劃背後不單單是訓練我們這一些孩子們的音樂專長更重要是背後要有編曲要有曲譜這個對於我們的國際能見度跟文化傳承都是很有幫助的好不好這個部分其實我們在五年前就已經做了我們跟國家交響樂團已經有 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].start |
16792.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].end |
16815.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].text |
把16組的股票改變成交響業會後我會把這個CD交轉謝謝我就是一直在關注這個問題希望也給我一個報告那再來我要關心那個部落公法人的計畫我記得我在這一屆的第一個會期也就是113年的3月我院會總質詢我有跟院長說部落原住民自治 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].start |
16817.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].end |
16846.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].text |
還沒有共識之前至少部落公法人要先上那也很謝謝主委那在院長的一個支持之下你也開始要推動但是我現在有點頭痛因為我記得我質詢的時候是說應該找一些需要部落公法人工具的部落來辦理我們才有辦法檢討成效而且應該要有一個所謂的座談會也好或者是說明會 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].start |
16847.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].end |
16868.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].text |
在全國各地讓大家可以去聽一聽 辦一辦但是我發現很多參與的部落也沒有什麼現在要用到部落公法人工具然後我也沒有看到他們的一個檢討說明會那我不太曉得說到底現在要怎麼做 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].start |
16872.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].end |
16898.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].text |
跟委員報告就是針對那個114年的四個師範部落工法人我們已經有針對他們的執行一年後的成果逐一做一個檢討會議然後我們也邀請一些相關的學者專家去幫我們檢視他們過去一年的執行的狀況來當作後續要辦理的一個基礎那15年的部分我們會朝向就是說希望能夠把這個透過這樣的一個實踐的經驗把法規生出來的這樣的方式來持續辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].start |
16900.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].end |
16924.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].text |
我的意思是說我們要在做中學啦像這個部落公法人你們應該要研議法規的鬆綁讓事辦的部落有明確的工具去執行他的法人行為嘛例如去跟廠商締約或者是說開戶等等我覺得這個部落公法人他很重要嘛甚至有的部落可能他們已經告訴我說 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].start |
16926.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].end |
16952.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].text |
既然以前的村民大會已經變成部落會議為什麼村長不要變成部落會議主席也有人這樣跟我講所以我覺得其實各個部落各個族群都有不同的想法我們希望透過事辦就是要去抓到各個部落事辦的一個成效跟檢討我們才有辦法往前推進但是因為我一直都沒有拿到這些報告我也沒有看到你們 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].start |
16953.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].end |
16980.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].text |
那既然這樣子講 我希望給我好 不好意思 按鈴了 第五個那個文件站的趙服員 我先這樣講我這幾年碰到很多文件站收站了第一個 評鑑不佳退場第二 理事長換人了 他們說我們不接了第三 也有人是招不到人了 所以就退場了但是他們有一個共同的問題來找我們就是資遣費發不出來啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].start |
16983.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].end |
16985.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].text |
你叫我怎麼去協調這種事我只是想問當政府撥款給一個協會協會用這個錢去聘用造福員然後他收了之後可能因為辦不好或者是不可抗力的原因他沒有去支付那些造福員的資遣費啦然後重點我算給你看50歲以上的造福員現在佔90% |
| transcript.whisperx[633].start |
17009.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].end |
17021.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].text |
有大概374位28%即將400位 即將要退場要退休 借齡退休而且50歲以上的竟然佔那麼多啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].start |
17023.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].end |
17042.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].text |
這個以後衍生出來的一堆問題即將在未來的幾年就會陸續發生然後我們接棒我們交給協會去做這些事大家也都清楚知道啊地方的社區發展協會又不是盈利單位甚至很多運作也不是很正常結果園民會把這樣的重責大任交給他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].start |
17044.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].end |
17069.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].text |
可以跟委員報告 那我們的資錢費是可以用行政管理費去做支應的只要說非規則與執行單位的部分他們都說不夠 他們說那一點點的他們說他們付不出來那沒關係 那縣府我們也有一些行政管理費縣府也不管他們 我們都開過協調會如果有個案的話我們可以來看一下所以你的意思就是說 未來協會衍生出的這些大量的資錢費 原民會都會買單 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].start |
17071.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].end |
17073.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].text |
所以那些企劃負責人都不用扛責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].start |
17078.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].end |
17101.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].text |
如果是規則以他們自己 如果他個人因素說我這個人不要的話 那可能行政長官是要我是希望 園民會應該要會同勞動部 釐清三方契約下的雇主責任歸屬提出制度性的解決方案然後呢 也要去研議文件站的營運模式過去這些具備穩定財力跟專業的這些社福機構我不曉得為什麼他們要退場 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].start |
17109.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].end |
17123.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].text |
這個 原民會要重新去檢討了解我的意思齁所以我覺得這個部分 請原民會好好檢討也給我一個報告 也希望到辦公室報告齁那再來就是元寶地的貸款終於上路了齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].start |
17124.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].end |
17138.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].text |
我相信很多的事情萬事起頭難但是我相信也很多人在觀望看這個結果所以我希望園民會能夠每一年的提出檢討報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].start |
17140.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].end |
17154.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].text |
對的事情 對的政策我希望園民會就要堅持我相信政府也不會不管 好不好那儲蓄互助社呢也是我知道園民會多少年來也都在幫忙補貼利息 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].start |
17157.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].end |
17180.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].text |
讓我們的族人到儲蓄互助社可以用比較低的利率或者是也可以用原保地比較簡單的方式可及性的方式去拿到一些金融但是我其實要講的就是說因為你們在去年的10月27號發布一個新辦法然後又說之後的10月27號以後要用新辦法讓他們措手不及 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].start |
17181.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].end |
17198.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].text |
我已經有在上上個禮拜幫忙開協調會齁那這個協調會其實很有共識喔因為我們發現原來是一場誤會啊因為對原民會來講現在你們的放款放到五千萬之後哇 你們的錢暴增你們要補貼給儲蓄戶住社的錢暴增 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].start |
17201.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].end |
17226.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].text |
但是對儲蓄互助社來講其實他也沒有賺到錢他在意的是你利息補貼讓他們可以用較低的利率給我們的族人所以他們說建議你們園民會只要去做放款的總額管制其實就可以解決雙方的問題所以主委這個部分我是想說後面可能你們還要有一個明確的公文再發下去可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].start |
17227.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].end |
17243.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].text |
好 謝謝那再來也是一個問題就是原住民知識體系這個計畫中長城110到114年結束一樣的問題他們也是突然拿到一個公文說以後不辦了所以我們又要開協調會但是開了協調會發現又是誤會一場 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].start |
17247.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].end |
17266.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].text |
那彼此之間也找到共識那我細節我就不細講我只是要表達希望原民會以後對於新的措施 新的辦法請提早一點啦而且一定要做好溝通檢討避免衍生這些不需要的誤解好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].start |
17267.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].end |
17288.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].text |
好那這個部分我也希望就是要把那個確定的部分發給各個承辦的大學因為很多知識中心很擔心他們的大學會對他們有所誤解所以這個公文一定要發好不好好謝謝那再來就是我比較關心的原住民族教育的一個中長程的發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].start |
17290.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].end |
17317.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].text |
今年115到119新的中長城計畫出來了那我很高興就是我過去長期要求的園民會跟教育部一定要有一個最上位的思考如果我們最上位思考是原住民自治人才的培育就應該要知道要培養哪一些人才既然知道要培養哪一些人才就應該主動積極去找大學的優勢學校科系讓他們來承攬這一些專班 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].start |
17319.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].end |
17334.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].text |
這個才是正辦殺手不管你看現在一堆原專班開了但是沒有什麼原住民自治人才的相關的重要科技開了結果少子化之後一間一間又關閉 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].start |
17336.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].end |
17354.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].text |
所以我覺得原民會一定要跟教育部一定要長長的去討論最上位的思考那麼公務人才的培育就是原住民自治人才的培育那未來原資中心全國各大專業校也都開設了那它未來它的角色是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].start |
17355.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].end |
17379.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].text |
他要輔導我們的學生啊 你看我們的原治中心喔越開設越奇怪因為我們的出債學率 高等教育跟一般的大學生是落差達38%錯學率喔 跟一般全體的大學生差38%國小差不多 國中差不多 高中差不多竟然到大學是斷崖式的表示我們的大學生很可憐啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].start |
17384.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].end |
17411.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].text |
他們去哪裡了去打工了去哪裡了所以這個部分我真的希望原資中心的角色要去重視他所以我希望教文處長在這邊我相信這方面你其實很有想法也很多心得那未來在我們的原住民教育的中長城計畫跟考選部 權序部 人總教育部 園民會可以一同的來努力好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].start |
17413.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].end |
17439.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].text |
那這個最後就是說關於跨溝通的平台我希望原民會你們也要找農業部啦因為上次你們跟農業部一人出一半的錢全國營養午餐推廣小米結果呢只有推廣三十幾間學校因為找不到小米為什麼原住民一百多年前台灣的主食小米為什麼淪落到今天這個地步 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].start |
17440.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].end |
17465.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].text |
沒有人種小米是不是因為我們的山坡地我們沒有辦法種是不是因為我們的森林法 野保法 水保法 山坡保育利用條例種種的法令限制了我們的土地的利用所以我覺得這個部分農業部我也常常跟他們溝通我希望原住民的產銷班都能夠去重視小米種不出來沒有人種小米這件事可以嗎 主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].start |
17466.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].end |
17493.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].text |
可以 謝謝那最後就是關於我們的這個姓名之亂因為大法官釋憲之後我們的原住民身份法做了最新的修法所以新法要去讓舊法的人趕快在1月5號前辦理我要跟主委說我的辦公室接了300多通電話南部服務處台北辦公室每一個助理都在負責接電話我們也已經接到很會回答問題了 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].start |
17496.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].end |
17505.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].text |
所以所有的問題都解決了好我現在只是要說請護鎮所當時我有要求要個別通知你們有去跟護鎮所溝通了嗎有啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].start |
17507.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].end |
17534.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].text |
好 那其中有一個我還沒有辦法解套現在講給你聽就是姓名條例第15條有宣告這個經過判決確定的人要執行完畢滿三年所以有一堆人要等三年後改名但是我覺得很奇怪因為他不是要改名他的漢名還是漢名他只是要並列增加原住民的名字而已羅馬拼音 原住民族文字 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].start |
17535.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].end |
17561.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].text |
你們可不可以含釋一下免得他們三年後才能夠變原住民包委員因為這個部分是屬於內政部主管的法規這個部分我們再跟內政部協調一下我的意思是說原民會要主動去積極協調不是由立委每次開協調會還有一些衍生的費用以及所有的系統健保卡 身分證 護照 駕照一堆人跟我們說都打不上去啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].start |
17562.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].end |
17579.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].text |
而且很多人還拿到手寫本所以這個蠻困擾的其實很多年前我們就有開始去要求但是進度有點慢希望園民會再跟各部會來去做溝通協調外交部內政部很多那再來就是最後一個禁法補償 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].start |
17580.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].end |
17604.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].text |
關於禁法補償 很多的我們的族人就是因為他們很擔心會列入所謂的收入所以在社會救助法這個地方我們很多年前也開過協調會當時要求原民會只要做出不具經濟效益他們就願意來認證但是他們現在就是回復說要把它列入不動產 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].start |
17605.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].end |
17627.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].text |
所以我在去年的11月我也開過協調會那目前衛福部是說他們社會救助法會做修法但是也請原民會在禁法補償條例也要做修法所以這個部分社助法也好禁法補償條例也好我個人都已經提出修法反本那不曉得原民會這個部分有沒有積極的來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].start |
17629.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].end |
17651.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].text |
這個部分在12月17號我們已經邀請華為部還有衛福部以及財政部來做一些跨部會的一些協調那我們持續會在追蹤好不好這個應該要積極來辦理主任很關心那安息日會我要謝謝你們因為他們禮拜六做安息什麼事也不能做也不能參加考試所以他們很少公務員 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].start |
17652.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].end |
17678.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].text |
因為國家考試都放在禮拜六他們幾十年來陳情也很難啦但是我要誇獎園民會園民會你們基於族人的愛護幾年前你們有同意他們的三育聖經學校作為考場然後送完夕陽之後就開始考試但是他們有接到通知說115年說不准了啦我想聽一下原因是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].start |
17680.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].end |
17689.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].text |
跟委員做說明在前次我們有去拜會陳介嶺校長陳校長他也特別提出如果是在安息州那是沒有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].start |
17690.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].end |
17715.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].text |
就以他們提出的條件作為考試場合這是第一個我們有辦到那麼第二個就是如果不是非安息州他們是開放外面那這個週次我們就不安排那個考場那這一次上次的問題是因為他們整個的系統上出了一些的小錯誤這跟委員以上所以意思就是說其實還是可以的對不對是 可以好 謝謝我想替族人去著想是園民會的責任那謝謝也請園民會繼續努力謝謝主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].start |
17720.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].end |
17728.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].text |
好謝謝主席好謝謝吳麗華委員的質詢接下來我們請蘇清泉委員蘇清泉委員蘇清泉委員不在現在請陳穎委員發言好謝謝召委我的問題會少一點那個麻煩請園民會主委請政治委 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].start |
17750.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].end |
17765.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].text |
委員好主委好剛剛我接續吳立華委員提的這個我們更改姓名之亂我想其實很多在這個過程當中很多人其實都遭受到一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].start |
17766.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].end |
17785.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].text |
令人很生氣又很麻煩的狀況啦那即便現在1月5號的日期已經到了截止了我相信還是有很多人的這個更改姓名這件事情還沒有完成可能陸續之後都會接到戶政事務所的通知還需要再繼續去改名字 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].start |
17786.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].end |
17805.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].text |
但是我要提醒主委在已經完成的這些人當中也有不少護證人員他們因為具備的訓練不足弄錯法規的所以這是我們的親身經驗就旁邊的人發生的事情所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].start |
17807.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].end |
17834.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].text |
我是要提醒就是說因為畢竟後續我們還會陸續通知我們還沒更改姓名的這個族人需要更改的要去改那這部分我要要求你們原民會跟內政部你們會同內政部一起就針對要去承辦這個這些這一次姓名更改的這些戶政人員還需要再做一次的加強訓練 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].start |
17835.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].end |
17858.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].text |
因為在不少的這個案例當中其實改來改去中間的程序真的是錯的結果也不完全是正確的那這個部分我想我在這裡特別要求你們是不是可以什麼時候大概在兩個禮拜內跟內政部來檢討這個事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].start |
17861.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].end |
17862.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].text |
會 我們盡快跟內政部這邊來做協調然後趕快來訓練OK 好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].start |
17868.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].end |
17892.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].text |
在1月7號這個主計總署依照前年國民黨通過的財化法的版本那試算並公佈了縣市新的這個財力分級那我們台東從第5級調整到第1級花蓮也從第4級跳到第2級那台東跟花蓮加起來只有一個綠島不是原鄉 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].start |
17894.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].end |
17918.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].text |
其他的都是原住民族地區全國的55個園鄉光這個台東花蓮就佔了一半台東15個花蓮13個園民會的很多政策都是以園鄉為主而做的規劃可是現在很多園民會的資源可能就無法下去台東花蓮那這個表來我們看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].start |
17920.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].end |
17942.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].text |
是園民會前兩年補助台東與花蓮縣府的這個跟公所的經費那這裡面涵蓋了各項計畫的補助經費你們有沒有試算過台東與花蓮在新的財力分級之下接下來縣府跟公所的自籌款會增加多少負擔增加多少因為我們會修改相關的法例 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].start |
17947.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].end |
17968.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].text |
目前還沒有精算出來我建議你們趕快盤點 趕快算一下因為原民會的計畫對財力分級補助的比例都不太一樣經費通常比較龐大的是特色道路隨便一條特色道路動輒都是好幾千萬元的 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].start |
17969.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].end |
17995.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].text |
台東的原鄉過去提報一個特色道路計畫假如經費是需要1000萬元公所他們所負擔的是150萬元新的財力分級規定台東原鄉的自籌款必須增加一倍新的財力分級規定自籌款比例增加一倍的情況下我是非常擔心說公所他會沒有錢因為原鄉 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].start |
17997.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].end |
18023.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].text |
這個建設會不會因此而停滯無法繼續發展本席是非常的擔心因為畢竟每個鄉鎮有時候可能跟縣府交情可能不太一樣原住民的這個假牙補助在新的財力分歧之下台東縣府的自籌從10%提高到了50%我們部落還有很多原鄉的老人家他們的牙齒是還沒長出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].start |
18024.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].end |
18045.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].text |
原住民的這個住宅建構修繕的補助地方自籌比例是從10%變到100%那這些補助的政策是直接影響我們族人的民生需求那你們到底有沒有跟縣府好好的溝通那這些補助是不是確保可以來繼續執行呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].start |
18047.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].end |
18074.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].text |
各位報告那個假牙補助原先是36000我們不但沒有減少還增加到4萬塊這個不會受影響好所以就是財力分級改變不會受影響所以你們這一筆還是會繼續認對 還增加或許在未來還有繼續有機會增加本席深深期待那我希望就是但其他的可能就沒有那麼好了吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].start |
18075.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].end |
18091.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].text |
我跟委員講 委員報告雖然是它因為財務法的關係它增加了一些變成第一級但是我想對鹽香不管它是哪一級它永遠是比較脆弱的部分也比較需要協助的部分所以這個部分我們鹽米會還是一樣會給協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].start |
18094.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].end |
18111.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].text |
好那这个但是你还是要先盘点啦是因为你这样讲我们就还是很担心啊所以本期希望园民会所有这个需要地方政府配合款的计划都应该要针对台东花莲的情形来调降自筹款的比例 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].start |
18111.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].end |
18138.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].text |
那專案報行政院同意那特別是由公所負責自籌款的部分一定要大幅調降自籌的比例不然這些公所可能到最後都無力負擔所以這個部分要特別拜託主委也麻煩你們盡快可以盤點各項計畫來跟本席說明然後趕快提報行政院那你們需要大概多少時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].start |
18144.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].end |
18153.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].text |
兩個月可以嗎這個月就可以報了很難得本席說兩個月然後園民會自己說一個月那先跟你們拍拍手 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].start |
18155.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].end |
18180.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].text |
很罕見的情況這個也可以報啦但是對方回復的話至少給我們一個月的時間你們起碼先報上這個月就把他報上去嘛處長都這麼說了好 那剩下的我們再來催行政院了另外我們看一下這是上個禮拜的新聞要請教一下園民會那因為這個財化法的影響希望把原住民的這個急難救助政策移交到地方政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].start |
18181.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].end |
18207.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].text |
這個部分你們是如何跟地方政府溝通各位報告我們在去年九月的時候有跟地方政府來那因為財務法那個資源已經到地方去所以就是麻煩地方政府的部分就有關緊張救助部分也可以來編列比如像這次新聞是談到那個成功證他就48萬那但是就是因為這樣的狀況之下我們還有66家的那個原價中心跟222個 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].start |
18209.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].end |
18229.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].text |
那個原家的一個社工 原住民社工還有33個都島 我這樣問你舉例成功鎮啦 但我們還有其他的鄉鎮你們大家都有同意接手嗎 哪些同意哪些不同意幾乎大概就是照這個政策方向去走 但是就是大家努力要再去跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].start |
18230.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].end |
18250.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].text |
那個縣政府要去爭取一些相關的預算就是他們要去跟縣府爭取那地方政府有同意接手嗎有縣政府全部同意所以急難救助是救命錢那這個部分他不會中斷因為他還有其他的一些相關縣府的衛福部的急難紓困的 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].start |
18251.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].end |
18273.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].text |
這些資源都還在你們如果有下去溝通那是不是有一個具體譬如說會議記錄有公文就是確保這個急難救助是沒有問題的好那這個部分麻煩具體提出具體的證據跟說明不然大家還是挨叫那個因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].start |
18274.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].end |
18298.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].text |
我們另外在這個政府的這個原住民土地政策上我們都有不斷的在努力所以還我土地這個口號最近比較少聽到但是我們在這裡還是要很認真的喊一下要還我土地啊在原民會知不知道台鐵用了多少我們的保留地 443公頃2997匹 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].start |
18302.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].end |
18318.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].text |
好那光台東呢我們就有121公頃那過去這個台鐵局是依照這個原保地管理運用辦法規定無償方式撥用了數十年那兩年前這個台鐵公司他已經 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].start |
18319.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].end |
18342.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].text |
公式化就是等於公式化之後已經不符合這個無償使用的這個規範那不但不想繳租金現在還很認真的在想說怎麼樣可以把我們的原保地就把它拿過去直接繼續無償使用是大家應該都有掌握這個可怕的訊息吧了解 當然有我們是希望說將來是朝城駐的方向去處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].start |
18343.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].end |
18362.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].text |
我想也是要跟大家講一下各部會其實這件事情對原住民來說是很大的禁忌踩到地雷那就像我們的元寶地光是在那個光是在退福會的那個台堂的我們要拿都拿不回來了現在還想要拿出去那簡直是天方夜譚 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].start |
18364.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].end |
18393.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].text |
對所以那個跟委員報告其實我們已經有完全掌握台鐵公司他們公司化之後他們現在就是他們使用的原本在台鐵時代使用的那些比數跟面積讓我們將來我們有去試算過如果說將來承住的話大概一年大概會有兩千兩千兩百五十萬的這樣子一個租金收入那這個部分我們會持續往老朝這個方向去跟台鐵公司那邊去協調所以繼續使用接下來就要收費了是是那前面兩年怎麼算 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].start |
18393.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].end |
18422.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].text |
我们再跟他持续协调协调讨债是用协商吗所以那个前两年的租金要缴吗还是免费封送没有应该是要去应该也是要去回溯他只要在租金求全的那个时效范围之内都可以因为已经不符合这个法规的这个范围内了对那就麻烦你们好好去讨债吧好总共多少钱 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].start |
18424.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].end |
18441.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].text |
2200多萬每一年我們初步估算今天如果是以後如果把台鐵公司他們公司化之後他們現在使用的那些原保地的比數跟面積用公告地價去算的話我們大概會每年的租金收入會增加2250多萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].start |
18443.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].end |
18460.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].text |
好 那努力喔好 謝謝好 報告召委最後一小題很快在上次主委不久前我有特別跟主委來反映其實應該不只一次我們這個真話編的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].start |
18463.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].end |
18481.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].text |
土地案件真的是太多了特別是花東地區那人力不足是蠻嚴重的問題那也感謝主委有承諾就是要來解決這樣的問題那大家可能不了解這個人力不足有多麼痛苦 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].start |
18482.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].end |
18510.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].text |
那我在這邊也要算是褒獎也表達遺憾啦在過去呢 園民會圖館處有一位非常優秀的泰雅族女生呢她是台大法律系畢業的她非常重點是 難得她非常喜歡辦理這個園保地真化編的業務她不但專業 而且她喜歡那表示她有熱情嘛我們的我們的處裡面是不是特別需要這樣子的人才對 沒錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].start |
18510.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].end |
18531.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].text |
好 但是很可惜的在前年10月他無預警的就被調到別的地方了應該不是你調的吧不是 他自己去應徵的不是啦 我是說他不可能自己跑掉他是不得已沒辦法待才跑掉的不是嗎是就跟你說他有熱情他是不想走的啊那後來 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].start |
18532.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].end |
18556.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].text |
他就是因為無預警的就必須被迫要調到別的地方嘛那所以他結果呢最後他回不了圖館處啦所以他就乾脆就對外應徵跑去其他部會就走了叫不回來真的好可惜那前年我想我想另外就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].start |
18561.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].end |
18588.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].text |
這個規劃科研你們現在是編目前原則是三位但是你們編制有七個是所以報告主委比例只有42%你可以回去跟其他的那個科室出事比一下好 那個主委不知道上次您答應之後到截至目前為止你們的進度人力調配的進度有沒有什麼進展 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].start |
18589.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].end |
18604.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].text |
可以在這裡報告一下嗎跟委員報告其實我們這次請政的緣額下來主委也非常支持啦是 他從頭到尾都非常支持對 他實際上那個主委有提供我們土管處那個相當的緣額來去支援這樣子的一個振化邊業務的工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].start |
18605.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].end |
18626.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].text |
你講的是提供編制的緣額還是提供編制內的緣額 對啦但是人沒有到位啊都被別人調走了那個以後會有新的緣額進來大概是三個月那主委請問一下就是大概什麼時候會調回來會補人力啦什麼時候 因為這個問題也問了很久了 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].start |
18628.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].end |
18657.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].text |
本辦就好幾百件塞車了就是來增加的人員大概多少跟委員報告 行政院核增我們18個預算員額那目前 圖管處可以18個嗎不是不是 整個園民會那因為我們現在還在做那個官制官規要送到那個考試院去做備查還有後續的那個植物說明書的製作所以這個程序辦好之後我們會馬上就是朝大概需要多久 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].start |
18658.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].end |
18684.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].text |
大概一般來說是兩到三個月的時間因為行政院是1月5號才核定我們這些員額的配置所以基本上會在兩到三個月的時間內用最快的方式去做那我們也先跟全序部那邊先打過招呼就希望我們兩個說兩個機關互相配合盡快的完成這個關智關貴的法制作業程序 以上報告主委所以18個員額你打算要放多少到圖管處 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].start |
18686.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].end |
18706.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].text |
至少四位至少四位 已經是最多的了我們不用跟主任請示不用 不用啦 不用確定喔 確定啦好 那我就不用問他了好 那是今天很好的消息了那我們就等待好 謝謝 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].start |
18712.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].end |
18739.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].text |
謝謝陳委員的質詢登記發言的委員除不在場者外其餘經與發言完畢 詢答結束委員林倩琦 丁雪中 徐欣穎 盧憲一所提書面質詢列入記錄刊登公報書面質詢和未及答覆部分請相關單位於一周內以書面答覆並複製本會本次會議到此結束 現在散會 |