| IVOD_ID |
17188 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17188 |
| 日期 |
2026-01-08 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-35-25 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第25次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
25 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
35 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
外交及國防委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第25次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2026-01-08T08:36:31+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-01-08T11:53:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
03:16:29 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/7a505bc1fba11f2d78fb36a44e90e469f2624357a227de45081761262ea6c52fd835661f24a1bde15ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-01-08T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第25次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國防部、外交部、國家安全局、海洋委員會海巡署報告「中共近期對台軍演之軍事威脅研析、國際情勢應對及國安應處作為」，並備質詢。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:36:31 - 11:53:00 |
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好我們準備要開會了 準備要開會了各位媒體朋友謝謝報告委員會初期委員9人已足法定人數大家早我們現在開會請議事人員宣讀上一次的會議議事錄 |
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立法院第十一屆第四會期外交及國防委員會第二十四次全體委員會議議事錄時間中華民國一百一十四年十二月三十一日星期三上午九時二十二分至十一時四十一分地點紅樓三零一會議室出席委員陳俊宇等十人列席委員盧憲一等九人請教委員黃仁列席人員侨務委員會委員長許家青及所屬人員主席馬昭吉委員文君報告事項一宣讀上次會議議事錄決定確定 |
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1514.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
二邀請僑務委員會委員長許家青報告鏈結海外橋台商與台灣產業共同發展之成果並被質詢僑務委員會委員副委員長張良明報告委員羅美玲等12人質詢均有僑務委員會委員長許家青及財團法人海外信用保證基金董事長侯麗楊等及其答覆決定已登記質詢在場委員均已發言完畢報告及詢答結束二委員陳永康黃仁許巧欣及林黛樺所提書面質詢列入記錄刊登公報 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1515.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1536.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
三委員所提書面及口頭諮詢未及答覆或要求提供資資訊請求委員會於二周內書面答覆本會全體委員並複製本會宣讀完畢請問在場委員對於上次會議議事錄有沒有遺漏錯誤或需要更正的地方沒有我們議事錄確定現在請議事人員宣讀報告事項 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1536.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1559.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
報告事項 邀請國防部 外交部 國家安全局 海洋委員會海巡署報告中共近期對台軍演之軍事威脅延期國際情勢應對及國安應處作為並被質詢 宣讀完畢好 我們先介紹在場的我們的委員同仁第一位陳永康委員另外是羅美玲委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1561.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1586.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
我們今天列席的官員本席先宣告相關的出缺勤或請假的情形第一位我們今天是顧立雄部長因為他禮拜四有軍談所以我們禮拜四尋往曆我們都會準假但今天顧部長會盡量在我們委員會待到12點才離開比原定請假時候還在往後延後另外 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1587.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1602.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
國安局蔡明彥局長因為有公務那跟林佳雄部長兩位的公務應該是雷同所以兩位今天上午是請假本席給予准假向同仁宣告再來是 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1605.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1631.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
海巡署的署長今天也是公務請假本席同意准假另外外交部亞太司、亞非司、國和司台日關係協會的主管不可列席請假請由副主管戴維出席以上是今天的假單那今天列席的官員名單首先是我們國防部長顧立雄 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1634.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1663.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
副參謀總長執行官黃志偉上將我們的常務次長楊吉隆中將權動署副署長兼執行長林純美女士總督察長是總督察長盧建忠參事石文龍政務辦公室主任孫立芳 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1665.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1692.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
政治專局局長史順文政治專局保防安全處處長簡迎紅軍備局局長林文祥主計局局長謝其賢軍醫局局長蔡建松站規司司長黃文啟 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1696.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
1716.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
資歸司司長藍靜婷法律事務司人權處處長余建昌整評司司長苗慧芬股房採購事主任趙雅萍人事參謀次長是次長侯嘉倫情報參謀次長是次長謝日昇 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
1725.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
1742.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
作戰及計劃參謀次長是次長連志威後勤參謀次長是次長李鳳翔通信電子資訊參謀次長是次長謝俊山訓次是次長郭俊德陸軍參謀長陳建義海軍參謀長邱俊榮空軍參謀長李慶然 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
1756.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
1783.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
後備指揮部參謀長薛淵泉縣指部參謀長文念忠陸軍後勤指揮部參謀長梁永坤資通電軍指揮部參謀長周文祥軍情局執行長李永康電展室執行長林振偉 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
1786.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
1814.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
國防大學教育長李承忠中科院院長李士強以上國防部所屬單位外交部由政務司長陳明祺亞太司副司長林鴻勛亞非司副司長陳永博歐洲司司長黃軍耀拉美加勒比海司鄭麗晨 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
1816.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
1842.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
北美司司長王良玉條法司司長李憲章國際組織司司長孫簡元國和司副司長陳敬一國船司司長張秀珍研社會主任柯良玉公眾外交協調會執行長肖光偉 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
1846.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
1865.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
國會事務辦公室副執行長關友鈞台日協的副秘書長林玉慧領務局局長鄭振勇國安局由副局長簡華慶 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
1868.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
1894.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
那我們勤工單位按照相關法令規定我們只宣告相關主管管那西部名單我們就不介紹再來是海委會副署長謝慶清巡防組組長洪柏昇情報組組長蘇全成特別行動資源中心主任林天佑 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
1896.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
1918.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
好 以上是相關的不管是請假或出席列席的官員名單那本日會議 補充介紹許曉新委員本日會議邀請國防部 外交部 國家安全局海洋委員會海巡署報告中共近期對台軍演之軍事威脅延期國際情勢應對及國安應處作為並備質詢首先我們請國防部部長顧部長上台報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
1936.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
1963.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
主席 各位委員先進今天非常榮幸應邀到大院委員會進行專案報告承蒙各位委員對於中共此事對台針對性軍演及國軍應處作為的關切與指導再次表達誠摯的謝意面對中共以聯合戰備警巡發射進航區及從事實彈射擊等 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
1965.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
1990.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
威脅活動高度挑釁台海區域海空情勢安全今天應要致大院執行專報其實各位委員能夠了解在中共不斷擴張軍事威脅的嚴峻環境下國軍軍人妥適應處確保國家安全與區域穩定接續由作戰級計畫參謀次長連志威中將 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
1993.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2006.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
實施中共近期對台軍演之軍事威脅延期國際情勢應對及國安應處作為專題專案報告敬請各位委員先進指導與支持謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2014.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2022.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
主席 各位委員先進 我是作機制次長連志威現在由我就中共近期對台軍演之軍事威脅延期國際情勢應對以及國安應處作為的專案報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2027.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2052.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
只是中共宣稱因為美國批准111億美元的對台軍售案所以在台周邊從事對台針對性的軍演企圖藉由軍事演習與實彈射擊外交 輿論 網路等手段演練對台的作戰預案加大對我的軍事威懾與壓迫力度且嚴重影響區域主要的海空航運 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2053.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2077.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
本次軍演共軍於台海周邊劃射演習區共艦及海警船駛入我臨街區並派遣機艦從事戰備警巡令藉由遠程多管火箭的實彈射擊並用新戰文宣攻勢以及心理戰認知作戰扭曲事實意圖打擊我軍民士氣製造我社會的不安 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2079.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2089.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
在軍事威脅的分析中共自114年12月29日起在台灣及外離島周邊海空域聲稱演練海空戰備警訓 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2091.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2113.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
奪取綜合治權 藥港藥育封控以及外線立體射阻等科目實際觀察其具體活動 載重報告如後首先是12月29日 在上午7點30分中共東部戰區宣稱在台海周邊的海空域進行對台針對性的軍演 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2116.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2132.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
共軍各型的主輔戰機以及無人機計有78批130架次從事戰備警巡其中的53批90架次逾越海峽中線進入我北部 中線 西南以及東部空域活動 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2133.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2162.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
共建則有14艘漁業中線進入我北部中線西南及東部的應變區其中11艘駛入我臨街區令海警船8艘漁業中線均駛入我臨街區在12月30號上午的8點到下午的6點中共於台海周邊開設了7處進航區並宣布在上述的時段將在台海周邊海空域進行實彈射擊 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2164.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2193.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
其次在9點以及下午的1點共軍分兩波次由福建的平潭以及石獅向我北部海域 西南的海域射擊多光火箭 合計有27枚共軍的各型主輔戰機以及無人機是42批77架次從事戰備警巡其中 計有20批35架次漁業海峽中線進入我北部 中線以及西南空域活動 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2195.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2213.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
共艦及海警船兵力則持續於我應變區及臨階區內活動在12月31號 除原14艘共艦外 並增加3艘由西太平洋駛入我東部應變區 既有共艦17艘 海警船8艘在應變區內活動 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2215.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2239.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
到了下午的1800時 中共的東部戰區宣布對台軍演任務完成另自1800時起 共艦 海警船陸續駛離台海的應變區返港那去115年的1月1日 中午的12點台海中邊共艦數量維持六艘 從事戰備警巡 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2240.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2263.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
總上 此次軍演共軍派遣竹斧戰機210架次共艦17艘 海警船8艘與我周邊的海空域從事針對性的軍演除加大對我軍事威脅與痛喝並用法律戰 心理戰及認知作戰意圖動搖我社會民心接續報告國軍的應處作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2266.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2283.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
中共此次针对性的军演具高度挑衅及冒进之行为,严重破坏台海周边区域的和平稳定,也对国际往来的航运、贸易以及飞航安全形成了重大的危害与干扰。 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2284.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2309.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
國軍持續強化戰備整備的作為積極應處共軍各項襲擾的行動以及軍事威懾確保我領土主權以及區域穩定具體作為說明如何首先是在聯合勤監政的部分此次針對性軍演前本部已經掌握關鍵的預警徵喉完成共軍威脅評估的分析並測定國軍應處的作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2311.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2322.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
整合了各勤奸爭系統的情資全程掌握共軍軍事活動的態樣並且評估其戰略作戰戰術層級的當前態勢跟未來的發展與預應共軍情勢的威脅接著在國軍的應變機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2330.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2348.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
本部平時及依照敵情的關鍵預警徵喉已經在國軍的經常戰備時期突發狀況處置規定律定有各項敵情威脅模式跟洗腦的類型必使各單位具以妥適派遣海空兵力來即時應處避利威脅升溫的預應 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2350.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2368.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
此次中共宣告與台海周邊執行針對性的軍演化設禁航區等複合式的軍事行動時國防部立即開設應變中心並依照聯合作戰指揮機制下達立即備戰操演以及指揮所的開設掌握全班敵情威脅的動態 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2370.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2394.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
另外同時國軍派遣海空軍機艦及時應處同步整合了海巡署的艦船採並航的監控同時針對海警船及共艦襲擾來實施有效的對應另外共軍實施實彈射擊的期間我防空飛彈部隊針對來襲的威脅以及彈著點經全程的監控並保持高度的警戒 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2395.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2414.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
三軍的地面戰備部隊則是依令來實施戰備徵詢編組各級的指揮機構通訊指管的系統營區應變安全維護戰鬥以及勤務支援等各項的應變兵力依照既定的計畫立即完成應變整備的措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2415.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2439.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
另外各部隊將敵侵擾的行動納為實戰化訓練的想定並實施聯合作戰計畫的研練這重點在關鍵基礎設施重要軍事目標的防護藉由執行戰備裝載 疏散 機動的整備以及主角設置等任務的規劃來維持部隊高戰備快速反應的能力嚴防共軍由嚴轉戰 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2441.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2458.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
中共此次軍演以複合式多面向的襲擾 脅迫等威脅造成區域安全與穩定上的風險政府以及國軍均能在有節 有序 有管制的因應作為下妥適應處第三個部分在戰略溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2459.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2474.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
中共此次針對性的軍演以違反聯合國憲章第二條第四款不得使用威脅或武力的原則本部呼籲民族有盟國家共同譴責中共破壞台海區域和平穩定 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2475.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2504.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
另外,本次美、日、韓、非、澳、紐、英、法、德、加、立陶宛、瓜地馬拉以及歐盟等,也以嚴正聲明表示,維持台海和平穩定對區域及全球安全繁榮具有戰略的重要性,反對以武力或是脅迫片面改變現況,對於我方維護區域穩定的負責任態度均表示肯定。 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2505.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2527.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
另外為有效的應對共軍任志作戰資訊的傳閃本部統籌規劃三軍部隊威脅應處以及備戰的實況影片並整合運用部會政策宣傳的管道適時發布於國內外各社群平台使國人瞭解共軍威脅的太陽以及國軍應處的作為以彰顯我國捍衛主權的決心 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2531.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2551.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
最後國軍秉持不升高衝突不挑起爭端的指導持續強化部隊的聯合作戰訓練以具備全時高戰備能力為目標沉著冷靜應對共軍各項形態的威脅堅定守護國家主權民主憲政體制以及維護區域和平穩定 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2553.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2577.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
感謝大院各位委員的指導面對工軍各項軍事威脅的行動國軍積極建立可視的戰力持續規劃籌購各項新制武器裝備此次強化防衛韌性及不對稱戰力計畫採購特別條例及後續預算的編列跟獲得對建構維持和平的國防實力至關重要請大院給予支持以上報告 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2580.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2586.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
好 謝謝國防部的說明報告接下來請外交部陳明祺次長上台報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2595.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2610.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
主席 各位委員 各位女士先生 大家早那麼感謝委員會邀請外交部前來就中共近期對台軍演之軍事威脅延期國際情勢應對以及國安應處作為進行專案報告並被質詢書面報告請參閱那麼以下就重點來做報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2619.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2643.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
共軍在去年12月29日宣布發動環台軍演之後本部立刻啟動應變標準作業程序包括前後三度發布新聞稿及時嚴正譴責中方挑釁以及駁斥他的謬論並且兩度通電外管立即盡洽駐在國行政以及立法部門 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2643.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2671.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
公開譴責中國片面挑釁行為並且支持台海的和平穩定到目前為止一共有17個理念相近的國家和邦交國行政部門以及這個歐盟對外事務部以及立法部門歐洲議會與這個對中政策跨國議會聯盟IPAC做出回應許多國家的主流媒體都有所報導或評論 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2673.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2684.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
這些國家的行政部門回應的具體內容大多會提及支持台海和平穩定和平解決以及反對武力或脅迫片面改變現狀 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2687.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2712.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
首先那麼從2022年這個美國時任聯邦眾議院議長的裴若曦女士訪台開始到去年4月這個演習為止那麼歷次中國對台的軍演那麼美國兩任政府都發表聲明表達嚴正的關切那麼針對此次的中國軍演國務院在元月一號 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2713.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2742.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
發表聲明支持我國在印太方面那麼日本、韓國、菲律賓等第一島鏈國家以及澳大利亞、紐西蘭等國家先後為我國發聲顯示他們對於區域安全跟共同利益的重視其中日本政府雖承受近期日中關係緊張的壓力仍然在12月31日發表高度有我的聲明菲律賓則守勢由國防部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2743.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2744.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
據民發表聲明祝我 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2746.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2772.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
歐洲國家和歐盟也相繼發聲包括英國、法國、德國、立陶宛等歐洲國家以及歐盟對外事務部 先後公開聲援助我相關內容除了提及台海和平穩定的重要性之外更強調反對以武力或脅迫片面改變現狀明確反對中國武力挑釁 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2773.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
2794.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
上述發展都能夠顯現我國持續透過外交管道呼籲國際社會重視中國以武力威脅改變台海和平現狀那麼以實現對其有利的所謂新常態New Normal這樣的一個那麼這個論述已經逐漸為各國採納 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
2799.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
2826.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
那麼在國際評論的重點上面那麼中國的動機評論報導那麼中國的動機可能包括抗議美國近期宣布的對台巨額軍售宣洩對日本首相高市早苗之前涉台言論的不滿轉移中國內部的民怨那麼演練對台遊演轉戰以及對我政府極限施壓等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
2827.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
2847.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
外交部也觀察到這次的軍演範圍是近年最大對我民生以及國際航運的影響最廣更是史上最接近我領土以及水域的一次透露中國藉此演練 遊演轉戰以及展現反制外部勢力干涉的能力 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
2849.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
2867.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
對台灣的認知戰也是本次的軍演重點中國事出一事派出無人機拍攝的俯瞰台北101等多組影像以及照片暗示以瀕臨我境企圖動搖我民心士氣以及民眾對我政府及國軍的信任 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
2868.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
2896.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
在相關後續的因應作為上面針對中國持續的加強對台施壓企圖片面改變台海現狀挑戰以規則為基礎的國際秩序那麼台灣將持續跟有盟國家密切合作共同遏止中國藉機擴權並將加強與有盟國家間的情誌交換以利事前掌握以及妥善因應面對中國持續挑戰 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
2898.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
2926.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
本部除了以指示各管處持續與請理念相近的國家以及邦交國各界公開發言支持台灣以外那麼也將配合我國政府論述基調加強向國際媒體宣傳我國的立場以反制中國對台認知戰以上還請委員指教 謝謝好 謝謝外交部我們接下來請國安局檢副局長上台報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
2938.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
2964.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
主席各位先進各位女士先生大家好非常感謝大院安排本局列席進行中共近期對台軍演之軍事威脅的演習國際情勢應對及國安應處的作為的專題報告請就中共軍演的動機演習期間對我富士威脅的態樣以及相關的內容向大院報告一 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
2965.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
2982.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
中共發動軍演的動機首先是反制國際民主的勇猛挺台美國白宮在去年12月4日公布國家安全的戰略報告強調美國核心利益並將印太地區定位於全球競爭的優先戰區 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
2986.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3000.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
強調維持關鍵航道的開放強化美軍印太潛資的部署及盟友共同分擔防務等三大核心方向並於在去年的12月17日宣布 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3001.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3026.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
总额逾超过111亿美元的对台军售展现军售常态化与安全的承诺令美国战争部发布了中国的军力报告中指出中共试图建立对台战略决胜的军事力量严重威胁台海安全此外 中共持续针对我外交 军事 法律 经贸 认知等作战 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3027.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3039.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
做複合式的脅迫美、歐、日、G7等民主國家相繼的發表聲明反對使用武力脅迫來改變台海的現狀 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3041.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3070.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
日本首相高士早茅在去年的11月7日更首度在國會闡明日本因應台外有事的立場反映台海安全牽動印太地區及國際秩序的穩定去年底中共發動對台的無預警的針對性軍演具有在國際場域反制民主有謀挺台的政治意圖接下來是轉移中共內部的問題焦點當前中共 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3072.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3088.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
國內經濟的動能疲軟去年1至11月投資衰退率2.6個百分比外商投資減少7.5個百分比加上青年失業率高勞工欠薪承擴升溫導致社會治理的風險升高 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3090.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3114.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
另外美國戰爭部在中國軍力的報告中即示警中共是以涉外鬥爭轉移國內經濟困境的責任中共舉行對台性的針對性軍演可將民眾對國內的不滿引導至抗擊外部的勢力干涉及民族主義的情緒來包裝對台軍演的合理的一個行動 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3116.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3141.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
三、渲染軍力未受數灘的影響去年中共全國兩會後習近平擴大整肅在軍中的貪腐並在10月四中全會前開除中央軍委會副主席何偉東軍委政治工作部主任苗華等九名上將的黨籍及軍籍該案前年全軍約三分之二的上將 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3143.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3171.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
此外這波軍中的整肅導致大量的中少將遭到調查及懲處軍內職位的懸缺以低代高引發待繼斷層的疑慮連帶影響三大戰區的實彈考核全軍戰略演習等年度大型的操演中共刻意藉九三閱兵渲染的何威哲以及福建號、四川號等新興船艦的戰力 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3172.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3191.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
並且推進遼寧號海南號等編隊從事西太及南太平洋的遠航渲染軍力的建設成果年末更藉由對台的針對性經驗莫多對我國內外展現解放軍戰力不受貪腐的影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3192.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3208.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
二 演習期間複合式的威脅態樣首先報告的是操作軍演與揮帶的施壓恫嚇中共刻意以中英文公告軍演渲染在台灣周邊開設7處航空禁航區並規劃實彈射擊試圖干擾我國際及國內的海運安全軍演期間中共動員 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3220.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3226.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
共軍的基建、海警等兵力同步對我本島、外島進行所謂的威台施壓 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3227.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3254.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
另外東部戰區分階段報導封鎖打擊登陸等不同的演練科目以及對我周邊實施實射PCH-191多管火箭且公布影片進行宣傳模擬針對我的恫嚇效果二 運用多元的手法遂行認知作戰演習期間中共運用官媒宣覽 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3255.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3276.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
影片、剪接、AI生成造假、盜用帳號、學者複合、網路水軍等推薦的手法、擴大偵訊操作。根據國安團隊的情報收報,在去年的11月29日至今年的1月2日,中共傳閃於網路社群平台徵印訊息計19,000余則,其中異常帳號799組。 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3281.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3296.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
相较过去军演,此次致重于AI生成影音以及国际外宣,企图借侦讯操作削弱国人对自我防卫的信心,并弱化国际友盟挺台的立场。 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3298.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3322.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
三 發動妄害 侵擾對我政府的機構網路去年以來 印太國家 北約 歐盟 網安機構與情報單位已多次指出中共系全球網路安全威脅的主要來源中共網軍對我資安侵擾逐年上升由在共軍對我海空侵擾 重要演訓等時機同步發動妄害的襲擾根據我國安團隊的情報統計 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3329.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3346.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
演習首日清老的次數及高達208萬次較前一日上升演習第二日再擴增至209萬次凸顯中共借軍演對我晚安洗腦之操作模式三節語 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3348.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3374.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
工具發動對台的針對性軍演並加大對我複合式的勤勞不僅影響台海安全一小關印太地區甚至全球經濟及供應鏈的穩定建議國際民主有謀關切印太及第一島鏈的安全我國安情報團隊將掌握基先針對中共的軍事行動及印太的安全情勢 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3375.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3401.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
並加強與我有謀的情報合作增進早期預警的圖像相助政府決策及應變整備以維護台海安全守護台灣民主的體制以上報告敬請大院委員先進不令指導並持續針對本局工作給予大力支持謝謝好 謝謝 請回接下來進行海委會海巡署謝副署長的報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3409.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3429.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
主席 各位委員先進 各位女士先生今天很榮幸應邀列席大院貴委員會就中共近期對台軍演資軍事威脅分析 國際情勢應對跟國安應對作為僅就海巡署夜館部分進行摘要報告首先報告情勢分析 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3430.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3442.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
在中國海警局參演目的跟角色部分海巡組長說中國海警自12月29日也就是上禮拜一開始及組織艦艇編隊在台灣周邊海域跟馬祖金門烏丘 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3448.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3472.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
還有東沙附近海域展開其所謂綜合執法巡查並且宣稱此舉是依一個中國原則對台灣跟附屬島嶼依法管控行動而中共運用依法管控巡查等語彙建構其管轄權的主張並納入協同軍演的海上執法行動第二 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3473.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3493.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
本次演習有13艘海警船在縣市水域內清澆首先報告在臺灣本島部分在臺灣本島部分我們有掌握8艘海警船針對我四大港口進行模擬隔離太陽並進入我臨界區也就是兩岸條例所稱的縣市水域嚴重侵害我國主權 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3495.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3522.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
第二 在馬祖金門烏丘水域部分中國海警在馬祖跟烏丘各部署兩艘海警船並進入我水域第三 在東沙海域部分中國海警船在東沙海域派遣一艘海警船進入限制水域繞行這是首次在軍演期間連動在東沙海域行動第三 有關特點跟威脅分析 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3524.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3552.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
首先報告本次軍演中共首度將部分進航區劃入我方臨海基線內海警船在二列航海上也配合解放軍軍艦在臺灣周邊進行海空聯合演訓也在我外離島連動繞行侵擾並進入臺灣本島限制水域還有馬祖金門烏丘禁止水域凸顯多點跨域連動壓迫的行動特點 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
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第二 海巡署另外收報軍演期間中國海警透過社群影音傳達惡猴海盜威脅攔截載運海馬斯火箭的長榮霍倫這個消息已經查證是錯假訊息意在塑造我方遭孤立的假象接下來報告國際情勢應對作為 |
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而海巡組除了掌握相關媒訊以外另外也則由派駐美日非的聯絡官跟駐在國家建立24小時聯繫窗口即時通報跟分享情資掌握整體國際情勢海域動態另外 |
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美、澳、英、歐盟等民主國家均表達反對任何以武力或脅迫改變現狀的行動並強調台海穩定對全球的重要性最後報告本署的應處作為 |
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海巡署在第一時間成立應變中心,並召開應變會議,立即調度艦船艇在各海域對應配合軍演的13艘中國海警船。這13艘分別在臺灣本島海域8艘,外離島5艘,並派遣待命艦船艇支援備變。 |
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另外,在10月30日中共東部戰區14火箭彈射擊期間,這個期間是從早上8點到下午6點,海巡署有效執行各項航岸保護措施,確保各海域商貨輪及漁船維持正常航行與作業不受影響。 |
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最後 為防範中共可能運用非涉地帶戰術封鎖隔離台灣海上運輸影響我國家安全跟經濟發展海巡署將與相關單位密切掌握台灣周邊海域情勢妥適調派勤務部署並協同國防部採取應對作法確保國家主權跟海域安全以上報告 敬請各位委員先進指導 謝謝 |
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好 謝謝請回現在開始詢答本會委員6加2分鐘非本會委員4分鐘10點半截止發言登記如果各位委員有臨時提案請在10點半前提出我們11點會是會議情形來做處理現在請第一位進行詢答的委員陳永康委員 |
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主席有請國防部顧部長以及國安局副局長 |
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是 陈委员部长早安早这一次中共的军演我们的国防部以及国安团队确实能够掌握预应以及如何因应以及适当的处置也避免任何的冲突产生对国军跟国安团队在这个里面的努力本席表达肯定但是后面仍然有一部分我提出建言以及部分可以做检讨精进的地方 |
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各位看這個圖這是一個東北亞整個大區域的圖這是要一個宏觀的格局首先我們就問因為外交部 國安局都有很關心美國的國家安全戰略 |
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那我们在这边就提出来就是希望我们的团队在我们的政府这个任内啊能够推出我们的官方版的国家安全战略因为你的个我们自己主体的价值跟定位要由官方版来叙述那外国人才来评断而不是用别人的论述在第一岛链你的角色提过台湾几次六次八次 |
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我們希望國家安全戰略官方版一定要在這個任內出來這樣子跨部會的橫向協商大家承擔的責任它不是百分比式的因為資源有限反應的時間有限最主要還是人力有限從這個圖上我們把中共的超遠區套上去各位看這是中共的天波雷達超視距的涵蓋的範圍就是等於說從第一島鏈到第二島鏈的中間 |
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这先不谈卫星的预警这一次中共发布的区域我们套在上去了对应你的临海基线临海24里临界区 |
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这个中间的那个园区因为受限这个软体它不能放大实际上这是12月30号当天演习当天海上商船的状况有没有影响有轻微的影响因为从早上动巴动动到18动动它只是前24小时通知所以商船只能航线的略微修正但是大的航线不会改变 |
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这个时候呢我们可以发现了中共这是一个灰色地带的讲穿了就是心理战媒体战网络战最后就是利用国际法他的定义不清的部分他取利不恰当法律战他玩的是一个围棋对我们来讲就是一种消耗战士气上给你沉沙但是我们可以看到的 |
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真正的影响啊不是台湾一个因此周边对我们友好的国家每一个国家只要仰赖海上交通线的运补能源基本材料进出通通受影响即便是在演习的当天中国大陆的503航线也没有飞了 |
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他自己的国际航线连接国内503没有飞而且海上的航线有没有影响有些许影响因为他只有10小时他能不能把它变成100小时那是手段但是他明显的不敢这么做所以我们对刚才这个提出报告我们把你的文字整理变成逻辑框架这个中共演习的目标设定同样呢对应我们的国军使命做的事情 |
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我们统统把它做成的这个框架那么反制的建议也列举出来了我们再看下一张图这张图就是海图套叠了临海基线临海24里临间区海峡中线训练空域 |
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然后呢再把中共的超远区套上去这个是超远区并不是封锁区在这一次过程中间呢刚才海巡署讲的很好中共啊用的是什么他是用中共的海警针对特别的船他不是封锁不是blockade他叫做cursive quarantine他有隔离他可以临检他针对什么目标呢如果未来要演习可能找一条你的这个 |
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3998.486 |
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天然氣船剛才講了中共用假訊息說是發布長榮的被臨檢事實上在這個過程中間我每兩小時用這個公開的軟體open source |
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去追踪每一條船因為根據IMO的規定你每一條船上你都有你的代碼也知道國旗懸掛也知道你的目的也知道你的裝載所以它可以針對性的選擇船而不是在這個超遠區叫做封鎖在這個情況下我們當然也標註了國軍講的導彈火箭發射的位置落點出來了這個東西實際上是一個心理戰 |
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完全是利用错误的讯息误导希望影响我们的民心士气那么可以肯定的就是国军海巡在这个地方对我们的主权的维护寸步不让但是我希望在这对外的媒体的说明上面将能够强调这个区是超演区不是封锁区另外就是说有演转战这是一个心理战 |
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其实我们过去跟美方的协调都知道战略预警如果美方对这个地区会发生潜在的冲突30天前可能就发布旅行禁止命令那么美方有一个很明确的手法就是AIT对于台湾的情势掌握他会在某个时间内要对美国驻台的居留的具有身份的人要做点名也就是说他可以告诉中共明确的告诉 |
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两岸的冲突美国是第三方根据国防部这个国这个所谓的国际法还有这个联合国的宪章啊第三方的要撤侨对方不能够阻止所以那个是一个预警时间也就是说如果AIT都没有宣布要撤侨背上美国国务院啊印太战略司令部的指导这个油盐转战是一个小小规模的军事冲突而不变成一个大规模的进犯 |
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4138.997 |
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这个是今天早上7点我们把所有的通过商传的位置我用这个做举例就是说在演习过程的10个钟头我每两小时有做一次更新套叠对于冲突是多少对于我们未来在媒体上的运用可以做明确的说明我们就问了 |
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4164.468 |
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我們都講要支持國防未來要台灣之盾請問未來負責台灣之盾這個聯合系統的整合合約是哪一個單位你有設定目標方法手段預期現況關鍵很多限制因素就是全程很多的律師必須要參與那這個影響到什麼呢就是剛才提到的 |
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特别条例一照2500亿那美方已经公布了这个3500亿军售那还剩下9000亿请问这个9000亿里面有多少是军售尚未公布还有其他的就是直接商售因为军售融资跟总统特别法案不会纳在这个特别预算条例里面也就是说9000亿里面可能有一半以上甚至到70% |
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4194.687 |
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可能是商售那商售你的合約沒有談你價錢怎麼估你的履約督導執行這個面要後續要更細心的來協助最主要的就是說我們在台灣的投資占比多少希望這個一兆2500億不只是在美國的軍售商售要能夠強化在國內的投資 |
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因为这次我们提到了所谓台湾之盾美国的厂商也有跟我们中科院不同案子签了所谓的MOU |
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4237.677 |
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4265.8 |
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如果IBCS是军售它就不包括寄转如果商售就可以谈寄转那就跟我们界面整合上比较有效但军售是完全用它的algorithm你没有办法寄转这些细节我就不做说明我们看一下我们这个图IBCS是指帮美国陆军整合所有地面防空火力但是现在我们的防空是以空军主导所以IBCS可能是空军来 |
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4267.438 |
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做最佳的界面 |
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4269.724 |
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4295.962 |
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我們沒有太空的武器我們的衛星軌道或者是channel是有限的那現在就是整合三軍了不管是你的環展不管是海軍的這個所謂的連程或是陸軍的位置原來都是訓安系統這個東西就像我們的F16一路提升提升過程中間有部分已經做了更新有部分還沒有完成整合 |
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4296.562 |
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4315.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
未来的台湾之盾要把这个东西整合进去所以上次跟部长做了建言就是C5ISRT因为包括你海马斯跟机动雄风你对目获你要交换情资所以我们看到的是多轨追踪情资融合网络整合复合图像 |
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4316.991 |
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4342.798 |
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泡上了超演區強調國軍強化戰力尤其是總統講了台灣之盾這個台灣之盾不是把過去的能力不要全部用心的是更新過去整合強化未來的系統最後我要解釋一下去中心化不是你的目標是你的方法手段的選項第一個你要趕快確立接戰規則 |
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4344.389 |
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4349.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
授權責任區這個必須納入國防大學子參教育法律也就是說 |
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4350.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4378.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
对于我们所有作战区不管是空作部 舰则部 滨海作战指挥部陆军各作战区的指挥官旁边要有一个法务官了解国际法 武装冲突法这个是可以强化的美军的各个作战司令部印太司令部 中央指挥部它旁边因为美方是一个全球性的所以它有一个大使级的顾问也有一个法律顾问那这个东西要摆进去另外就是 |
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4379.66 |
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4406.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
军总的专业跟维保作业要纳到各作战区要协助不然很难讲共同图像不只是COP还包括战术图像所以最后我们强化战场指导的建议将指挥中心的关键节点形成模组套件以及可替代性的重组性的网状架构维持中心功能仍然存在只是位置不同 |
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4408.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4418.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
所以骨幹地下化關鍵支點機動化另外就是說有線的微波的機動台的未來增加衛星的軌道唯有這個能力的建立 |
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4421.178 |
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4447.182 |
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這個去中心化就變成你的選項而不是你的目標那麼我提出這些建議請國安部作為參考我這邊這個質詢到這邊請部長您做一個簡單的回應是跟委員報告我想剛剛您提到的去中心化執管的這樣的一個目標方法手段跟建議都非常的好那也是我們正在進行的一個事項 |
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4447.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4459.567 |
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那細節的部分我們可以私下再跟您做個說明我覺得這個部分都是我們現在在進行的那台灣之盾的部分我們現在有成立一個專案辦公室那當然就是如您所講的它的目標就是要 |
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4460.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4480.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
要整合現有自製跟外製以及未來可能取得的部分那我們來規劃用自動化的C8ISR的系統來結合這個AI的技術然後來連結各式的雷達融會為各式武器的一個擊殺網那我們建構一個全方位多層次跟整合式的一個 |
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4481.034 |
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4495.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
整體的飛蕩防禦系統 那這個部分我們整體規劃能夠在公開的時候 我們會向蔡委員做一個報告謝謝 大家共同努力好 謝謝陳永康委員 謝謝請回 部長請回接下來進行巡禮委員 徐曉新委員 |
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4508.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4525.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
謝謝主席我們是不是有請顧立雄部長來 部長請是 許委員好部長好那最近發生的這個非關的意外我想全體國人都非常的遺憾 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4525.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4540.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
目前也在搜救當中各界都在為他集氣所以我們今天不針對個案討論但是我們希望從本案擴展到整體的空軍飛行安全到底還有哪一些問題跟值得檢討的地方 |
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4540.755 |
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4564.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
首先有關於飛行員在失事之後甚至是殉職以後的調查一般來說我們都希望有一個真相而不是今天攻擊明天忘記可是我想要問一下2018年我們有一位F16的無性飛官在演習當中殉職那部長請問這個事情調查報告都完成了嗎在台北法院這邊審理是已經結案了嗎還是經過了什麼樣的一個過程 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4565.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4592.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
委員好 空軍司令部參謀長在這邊做個回答107年這個案子目前分成刑事的部分目前還在還沒有做一個結案為什麼因為高檢那邊還有一些案子還在做一些釐清但是整個民視是你們以機密為由沒有提供相關資料還是不是這樣子這是一個自由時報的報導因為如果是假的訊息的話那給你們一個時間跟機會來做澄清 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4594.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4619.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
謝謝委員給我們這個機會那我們空軍司令部都是按照軍事機關對司法機關的這個機密要件的這個申請的要件全部都提供而且在第一時間我們就配合檢調甚至監察院的調查都全數提供這是應該要做的事情但是我們看到自由時報他做了這樣子一個獨家那寫了說沒有癥結的原因是因為你們不願意提供資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4620.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4647.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
所以相關該澄清的該否認的那我認為必須要做到否則對於其他的非官甚至說出意外的大家都會覺得說難道這不需要給予相對應的調查嗎這是第一個事情請你們來做一個澄清跟說明再來有關於這個防撞地系統的部分我在去年的12月15號的時候就問過了那今天顧部長也有提到那能夠安裝完成的時間應該是2027年對吧是 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4650.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4668.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
現在預估就是2027年以前全數安裝好 那請問一下昨天記者會為什麼又說的是2028年呢你們知道昨天空軍記者會講的是2028年不是2027年我昨天看記者會的時候就覺得很奇怪我們不是12月15號的時候都已經講好是2027年了嗎請問一下實際的時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4672.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4687.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
跟委員澄清一下這個全案是在2028年所以說他可能是針對鳳展專案全案但是針對裡面的個案AUTO-G CAS這個部分沒有 我們那個時候他問的就是在AUTO-GS就是他就在問防撞地的系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4688.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4713.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
是新聞都是這樣報的啊全案我回去也問了我們專長他說在全案是在所以我告訴你喔等一下我還會再講你們記者會昨天說錯很多資訊今天有一個機會讓你們好好來更正第一個要更正的事情就是這個防撞系統你預計就是2027年要全數完成對吧因為如果到時候跳票的話我還要再跟你追究啊所以時間點要講對不要一下2027 一下2028啊是好 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4717.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4731.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
那再來就是呢因為我覺得你們如果連這麼重要的公開時程記者會上都是錯的那再來你們說這個2018年就要採購了可是呢這個到現在都沒有到貨你說是系統升級的問題上次問過了 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4733.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4753.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
可是對我來說這些都是藉口為什麼因為已經6年到7年的時間我們完成不了一個美軍2015年就全面裝設的系統本來就應該是要追根究柢而不是雙手一攤那另外請問新購入的F16V是不是它出廠就已經會內建這個防撞系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4754.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4776.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
花委員 兩個問題給你做一個很快的回答第一個 F16 BLOCK 拐動這個是全數位所以出廠就會具備 Auto GKS 功能第二個 為什麼 BLOCK 兩棟它要這麼久的時間因為美軍到今天它的 BLOCK 兩五三棟也是類比式的飛超系統到今天跟我們是同步在進行沒有一點 Delay |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4777.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4796.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
它的飛機到現在一架都還沒上機進度跟我們是一模一樣的但是問題是你從2018年到現在是一個6到7年的時間我剛剛為什麼要順勢的去講F16V的問題就在於如果今天它的系統沒有辦法解決這個問題它還在做還在做測試等等的 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
4797.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
4820.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
那如果我們原本F16V的66家按照其成你在這個2025年的新聞裡面就本來提到說我們去年本來可以收到10家的F16V但現在全數都延宕了我的意思是這兩個方案嘛一個方案就是我們裝了防撞地的系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
4821.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
4846.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
但沒有辦法做到 另一個方案就是我們新採購的F16V能夠交貨 我們就會至少有一部分的飛機 戰鬥機是有防撞地系統 但是也沒有交貨所以它就是一個延宕沒有交貨的問題這一點國防部真的是應該要去好好的去追蹤我問一下 今年上半年我們預計能夠拿到多少的F16V |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
4848.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
4861.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
這個我們跟美方持續在努力還是沒有答案又過了這麼好一陣子了 還是沒有答案您也看到新聞在去年年底它的是華是非都已經完成了是啊 所以我現在問你說我們預計上半年如何嘛我們預計上半年欸 你在2025年的時候可以告訴我們2025年9月的新聞說我們下半年 就是去年齁可以大概拿到10價左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
4873.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
4884.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
那結果呢又過了一陣子了然後又延宕了我現在再問那今年上半年預計可以取得多少價還是回答不出來還是沒有答案這會讓大家覺得那請問一下我們買了我們買了這個戰機都沒有到貨 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
4889.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
4912.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
然後上面明明就出廠就集裝防撞地系統對我們的飛安有很多的幫助而且不只這一項有很多的飛安系統都有升級那我不管你今天是一架兩架三架最起碼對我們國軍來說都是一個新的安全的保障那我現在問你上半年我們預計能夠接貨多少的F16V還是沒有答案是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
4913.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
4930.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
包委員我們也非常重視這個飛安的問題那整個飛機交機他的安全也是我們最重視的所以說現在整個飛撤的部分持續在進行我如果說今天跟你報了一個數字明天沒有做出來你不要這樣講你們之前就報數字了你們之前就報數字了啊2025年有沒有報數字有嘛為什麼我們會說有實價那也是你們報的數字啊以前就可以報數字現在又不報數字說是因為飛安了 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
4940.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
4945.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
我當然知道非安很重要啊但問題是你們過去報數字報得這麼漂亮結果全部延宕之後現在我再問你了你又不報數字了你這樣子你覺得交代個過去嗎這才是一個問題嘛年底時價已經完成組裝了所以今年上半年這時價會到貨嗎它完成組裝但是還要陸續進行所以還是不確定嘛我在跟你談論這個也沒有答案 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
4963.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
4988.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
委員報告一下就是說第一架的飛機它要進行的測試據我了解它的項目會比較多所以如果第一架的測試都比較順利的話第二架的交機就會加速這個大家都知道的事情就不用多談了我問的就是上半年嘛到1月7號為止生產線在線組裝已經有56架那這個有46架的單座機跟10架的雙座機所以你的意思是說上半年如何呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
4988.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5002.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
那我們現在就是要看他第一架整個的測試的一個結果所以你跟我講了四十幾架然後但是他第一架都還沒有完全的測試完畢那就跟沒有講一樣好不好所以這個部分還是要跟美方再去催迴最後我要問一個問題主席再給我一點時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5005.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5022.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
就是因為大家現在都非常關心國防部的新措施有關於國軍在文件當中本來連line上面都要標明什麼無啊密啊結果在軍人的反彈之下取消了只有通訊軟體的部分剩下都保留所以我們昨天記者會看到一個很荒謬的現象 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5023.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5045.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
報告完畢 5 我們今天的書面報告也都是但是我先跟部長說你們的軍方自己內部資料你要怎麼寫是怎麼一回事我今天探討的是所有的文件包含記者會嗎舉例來講你們昨天在這個初步調查後面寫個5一般民眾看到只會覺得是怎麼樣沒有調查嗎 還有什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5046.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5069.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
事件經過後面寫個5大家覺得是怎麼樣沒有調查嗎人員基本資料姓名每一個後面都寫一個5你今天都已經是叫做記者會它就是一個公開的所以如果你真的要寫你PowerPoint第一面寫的其實就是一樣的你每一面都寫這個除了讓基層軍人在那邊一直打然後讓大家看不清楚然後不清楚到底你們發生什麼狀況之外到底有什麼好處啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5072.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5091.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
部長你可不可以講一下這個政策到底就是說你們只取消了LINE的這個通訊軟體的部分請問是不是未來就你們內部的資料你要怎麼寫這是你們的事但是公開對外就是你對外不可能有機密你有機密你就不會公開做一個記者會了嘛那你還要這樣子每個都寫5嗎誰不知道他會寫5啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5094.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5113.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
簡短說明一下好不好跟委員簡短報告一下精準核密或者精準標示機密是美軍行之有年的作法美軍他只有做建議而已喔他並不是強制性的喔我去看過了那份文件了我們國軍為了跟美軍要進行實質交流建立共同圖像這是必須要做到的基本功 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5114.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5137.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
我問一下他們的classify unclassify是寫在前面還是後面第二點美軍的做法您在網路上都可以找到相關的案例就是說他的公開資訊就會標示U就等於跟我們標示5是一樣的他寫前面還後面他寫在前面對啊那你寫後面是什麼意思這個我想當然不一樣意思這當然也是重點這對於很多人在識別這在很多人識別這件事情的時候當然很重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5141.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5160.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
美軍的公開資訊也會標示U嘛U就是Unclassified對 但他只是建議而已他並沒有要求一定都要做那只是suggestion我看過那份文件他就是一個suggestion但你現在是連報告完畢都要寫一個他們現在整份文件的機密整齊也另外 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5161.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5184.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
會標逐頁逐段也都會標示機密等級公開資訊就會標示U這跟我們標示5是一樣的那這樣子的一個做法我想是跟國家機密保護法的精神是一致的不一致你國家機密保護法你是律師耶要經過整個過程的核定請問它經過了什麼樣的核定了我們內部就有一個核定的程序 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5185.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5207.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
你這個都是走國家機密保護法的程序嗎每一樣都是嗎今天的報告裡面也是嗎今天的我們的公開的專案報告裡面你也有走過國家機密保護法的相關核定程序嗎什麼時候進行的對外公開的這樣子的一個資訊我們就會進行討論那對作業的人來講他就要去評斷這一段到底是屬於機密 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5207.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5219.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
我們在所有的機密保護法裡面不管是一般文書處理手冊或是國家機密保護法都有在密等上面的解密期限請問如果今天上面寫的是密的話那你有沒有解密期限 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5219.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5227.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
有啊有那可是不是你都是寫無啊我的意思就是說既然無就是無就是沒有啊我告訴你這問題在哪裡好不好他要逐列逐段的去審視要去實質核定但是今天你就是一個公開的記者會了你就不可能有任何機密然後你還要在每一段上面然後要寫一個無 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5238.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5249.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
這就是讓大家覺得很好笑你今天事件處理過程報告完畢我跟你講你覺得不好笑全台灣人民看到都覺得很好笑所有的軍官都覺得莫名其妙只有你大副部長覺得不好笑大家都覺得很可笑的事情我說了你內部的文件要怎麼寫是你們的事情但是你們要思考到的是公開的記者會那是否還有這樣子的必要 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5267 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5273.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
否則你不用取消LINE啊你LINE的事情你就繼續幹嘛你剛剛講的這麼大聲覺得你都對那LINE的事情為什麼要取消呢通訊軟體上面欸 美根 吃早餐沒我吃了漢堡蜜你不是都本來要這樣寫嗎那為什麼要取消呢就是因為知道說這個太擾民了嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5285.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5305.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
所以我說了你們內部的資料要怎麼寫交給國防部你們專業決定要如何跟美軍借過都可以但是公開的這種記者會已經是確定是公開的請你寫一個大家就知道了嘛好不好讓民眾能夠清楚的看懂記者會的內容才是最重要的事情謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5306.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5319.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
薛委員的意見表達完整那請國防部就記者會公開資訊是不是應該要這樣標示我覺得可以審慎考慮那另外呢寫無如果容易引起錯誤的判讀的話你也可以寫U啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5320.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5345.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
你懂我意思嗎on class by就寫個u因為你在讀中文的時候你寫個u他的語意不會被中斷這都建議那我們讓廣播去做相關的研議好不好徐委員我們會聽取各方的意見因為我們想這個大家調整原來習慣的做事方式會增加一些這個我想適應的成本那我想我們都會來逐步收集相關的意見來不斷的來進行一個檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5349.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5359.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
但是我們覺得這是必要的一個進步的做法我相信待會還有其他委員會詢問那接下來進行訓導委員是黃恩委員謝謝主席 有請顧部長來 部長請 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5383.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5404.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
部長好是 黃委員我說簡單的接續徐巧欣委員剛剛所講的這一些密跟無的這個部分那你這個過去裡面你上任之後就檢視了這個思維檢視思維它的效益到底有沒有而且現在全國國軍現在都認為 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5410.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5428.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
這個怨聲載道那所以這個這樣的一個減量的思維裡面但到底有沒有效力我們現在我們應該要重新檢討這個部分我請部長盡快來做一個調整那另外就是我們今天我們講的 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5430.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5452.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
很遺憾的是在前天的晚上空軍一下的F16戰機在夜間訓練的任務中失事乃在搶救新興的飛官中空軍飛行員是以生命承擔國家安全第一線的人員發生這樣的一個憾事對家屬是難以承受的打擊 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5454.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5477.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
對國軍士氣也會重大的衝擊那當然我們今天我們想回顧過去十一年當中這個十年當中有十一起的發生重大的一個事故那當然這個是不是在設計上的缺陷偷工減料還是問題所在那當然在這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5480.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5483.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
單座的戰機彈射的部分是購入在1997年的購入 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5486.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5512.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
没有安装行动防撞系统所以这个等等就发生了这样的一个重大事件那另外就是F16有四大的一个杀手就是空中相撞第二个是空间迷向第三就是大机的昏迷那第四就是操控下的一个撞地那第二个现在我们想的是第一 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5513.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5527.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
第二項的空中迷向包含大機的昏迷是不是朝向這個方向去做一個深入的調查那部長今天發生的這個事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5529.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5546.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
是不是檢討我們F16現在的布拉克兩棟的這個問題過去到現在一直存在著一個未解決一個問題所在那部長你來回答一下 空軍來回答先請空軍 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5547.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5569.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
不是 委員您指的是要解決空間迷向跟大氣昏迷這個沒有 剛剛我說你們是不是朝向這個方向那另外說它的座階的彈射是不是現在要提升它空間的彈射包含它的這個生存力能夠提升 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5570.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5585.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
柯委員報告這個block兩棟它是沿用美軍的這個Colins公司的S2這個彈射座椅它也是零零彈射也就是零高度零速度可以做一個彈射保護飛行員那新構的block拐棟它是 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5586.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5607.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
Follow美軍的這個落馬公司的馬丁貝克US-18Echo這一型的彈射座椅也是00彈射那您提到的裡面安全的部分其實這都是標準配備裡面包含了救生艇還有信標機還有所有的求生裝備這個在我們國家裡面全部都是標準的配備 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5608.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5628.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
那有沒有可能再提升因為現在我國空軍的戰機雖然不是海軍的這個艦載機但訓練和執行任務主要都在於海域本席統計在20年20多年的戰機的事故發生約28次事故中有18次發生在海上 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5629.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5645.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
那比例約為64%其中11次人員失蹤或殉職佔比例61%所以我們現在就是說在他在飛行中在彈射之後那如果他的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5647.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5672.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
這個急救的這一些彈射的這個部分是不是可以增加的提升那因為剛剛的數據裡面都已經調查出來了嘛64%約64%在海上有18次的那另外11次是在失蹤或是殉職佔61%所以像等等這樣的一個狀況那我們是不是更要提升保障我們空軍的這個軍官 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5675.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5697.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
謝謝委員的關心這個我們也真的是非常重視飛行員的安全所以說我們在我們的求生背心上面都有一個海水起爆因為我們也知道我們戰機的訓練環境大概您剛剛提到的大部分都在海上所以說他的求生設備有一個海水起爆的裝置那觸到海水裡面不管你人是不是清醒他都會自動充氣來保護飛行員的安全那在 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5698.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5727.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
救生艇上面也是一樣有這樣的一個裝置那海水觸發之後它的求生訊號的信標機會自動啟動那這個在其他的國家未必都有標配但是在我們國家全部都是標配那未來如果有更先進的這些求生裝備的話我們也會那當然未來引進這一些F16升級版的這個布拉克的拐動那它的這個彈射的機能功能是不是就更提升 有沒有是 有 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5727.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5749.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
是它的除了00彈射以外它的速限本來從450海里舊式的這個S2提升到這個US-18Echo它可以到600海里的彈射那包含它的手部腿部的這個保護它都有更完整的一個保護措施那因為時間關係那我請國安局包含外交部國防部留著來針對 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5751.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
5767.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
我們解放軍在東部戰區的去年的12月29日的清晨大概7點半宣布的舉動正義使命2025的經驗實際行動幾乎是同步的展開那我們國安局 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
5768.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
5783.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
國安局外交部再先問國防部還有國安局我們在何時得知解放軍對台軍演是否在之前就已經得到解放軍會在這個規劃是否之前就發現部隊的調動的這個跡象 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
5787.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
5810.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
本席問的原因是主要希望了解我們的情報的掌握更希望能夠從中得知解放軍何時開始規劃還有它的動員能力在過去每年5到7月份解放軍只有異動調動我們一定可以發現不可能發生突襲式的一個武力犯台 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
5812.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
5839.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
另外就是合力艦聯合合力艦宣布三天時間就展開軍演這一次的正義使命宣布同時展開部隊調動集結隔天就進行了實彈的遠襲所以這樣的一個是一個重大重大對我們台灣來講是一個重大的軍演而且他同一時間同一步驟那我們這邊的掌握的情況如何你回答一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
5842.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
5857.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
委員好我是情報次長這一次的軍演我們在演習前的確有掌握到確切的徵喉但是至於徵喉的內容因為情報的必要性所以請委員容許我在這邊不方便跟委員做報告謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
5859.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
5874.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
現在不是報告的問題現在是國人現在對於我們國軍如何在因應我們對岸之間的這樣的一個同步同行的一個角度 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
5875.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
5894.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
因為現在忍其動無延遲的突發性的一個實戰轉換這個動員能力的的確非常的驚人所以國軍疫情的機制也構成極大的壓力那我們今天我們如果對岸同時宣布 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
5897.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
5919.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
這個同時同步進行來對我們台灣的經營來講的話我們有沒有即刻的因應的措施現在是國人要聽的這句話你來回答一下好不好報委員有簡單的回答就是有因為我們已經我們剛剛跟您報告過的在前面的這些重要的預警徵口我們已經掌握了所以國軍做好了準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
5920.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
5942.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
那我們的社會任性的這些社會任性有沒有在啟動啊我看根本沒有啟動嘛我們好像是一面倒就等對岸裡面把我們繞台我們國內裡面根本沒有任何的動作防衛或是預言預警啊有沒有 全社會任性有沒有在動沒有吧請摘要回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
5945.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
5959.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
跟委員報告我想是這樣子就是說因為我們預判他的這個軍演的強度之後那我們由國防部的這個部分來啟動我們相關讓我們相關的應酬的作為在可以公開的部分我們在我們的報告裡面都有列舉到那 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
5961.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
5978.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
我想其他相關的這個部分我想各部會包括像海巡也都有協同因應那像外交部也有協同因應國安局都有協同因應我想這個大家都一起在努力我想這個是要檢討的地方因為為什麼很多媒體在訪問我的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
5979.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6003.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
第一個 既然他們已經展開實彈軍演的時候我們內部國內不管是社會任性這一些都要共同啟動內部演習來防範未來萬一他們實彈演習打到我們自己來而我們沒有任何的反悲的話這樣對我們百姓來講如何交代以上請問部長你們自己本事要檢討 謝謝謝謝黃委員謝謝委員的指教 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6007.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6029.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
接下來進行詢問委員陳冠廷委員你好我們請國貿部部長來部長請 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6034.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6061.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
那國安局副局長也可能要準備一下備選是陳委員好部長副局長那我想請教一下最近有幾件大事發生那首先依照時序第一件事情是中共的這個軍演那那是算是史無前例應該是第一或第二大的這個大型的綜合型的軍演那第二部分就是韋國的馬杜洛馬杜洛總統 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6063.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6088.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
受到這個美國的軍事行動直接逮捕運回這個美國受審這兩件事情我把它當成是分開的事件那個別的事件但是我還是想要請教一下部長跟副局長怎麼看在這個馬杜洛的這個事件之後中國從中有沒有得到什麼樣的啟示對台的軍事行動它的可能性是會增高或者是減低 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6091.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6113.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
跟委員報告我想中國長期以來就是表示要以這個不管是以脅迫的方式或以武力的方式來改變台海的現狀也就是說要意圖以這個片面來來這個用不斷的各種的這種 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6114.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6129.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
手段來對我們要併吞我們所以共軍以任何突襲式的手段來發動攻擊本身我想我們都放在我們的想定裡面而且它這種威脅是對 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6130.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6152.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
所有台灣人民的一種威脅我們國防部的責任就是要來有效地來抵禦這樣的威脅來實力來嚇阻對方妄動所以我想所有相關的這些方案都在我們的可能想定的範圍之內我們都會跟我們國防部也會跟國安局來做相關的一些預應 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6153.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6182.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
因為我看到新聞上面有顯示說有國安高層的官員他有提到說在這一次美國成功的軍事行動之後他們認為是可以有效的嚇阻未來中國對台的一些可能的行動因為這證明了美國在情監偵還有情報的運用跟執行面上面有很傑出跟卓越的能力那有辦法達到這個嚇阻戰爭的可能性不知道部長怎麼看這個國安高層的看法不具名的國安高層 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6183.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6209.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
我想我們國防部關切的是中國對我們的威脅中國對我們的軍事的威脅那包括剛剛講任何突襲式的這種攻擊都對我們來講是我們國防部所著重的那所以我想國軍一定會應用所有各種的這種的我們的相關的這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6211.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6219.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
聯合健身系統來嚴密的掌握這些狀況然後我們對各種的可能的一種一種 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6221.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6248.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
可能的行動我們都要有一個應對的一個方案那我們不去我想我不會去評論其他部分我想因為我們所重視光不所重視就是如何確保我們台灣的安全好 謝謝部長我認為首先第一件事情就是過度的樂觀或過度的悲觀來去看待軍事能力特別是中國的軍事能力都是不必要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6248.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6270.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
那第二點我也不認為說中國他在過去這20年的把台海現狀的改變那會因為一次的事件來去加速或者是減緩在過去20年來中國他比較或者說中共他比較在行的是什麼他是可以緩慢的改變現狀所以我們從過去20年來我們看到1999年 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6272.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6294.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
共機可能只是因為兩國論跨越台海中線那是單一事件在那之後的非常長的時間裡他不太頻繁的跨中線但是在2019年之後他們開始頻繁的改變常態近三年來有一萬五千兩百九十二架次的勤勞也就是說中共的他想要遂行的不是一次性的來去 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6295.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6314.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
破壞現狀而是透過以十年甚至是二十年為週期緩慢的改變現狀那等到我們察覺之後或者說我們要做反應之後它已經成為繼承事實所以說我們接下來我們的國防很重要的一個目的就是不要讓現狀被長期的慢慢的被破壞 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6315.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6335.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
我們要確保的是說他們不會把繼承事實作為對國際社會做宣傳的一個工具所以我們看到說從過去中線是非常不平凡的到跨越中線到跨越中線到24海浬之間到24海浬到12海浬之間我們看到這個計時是不斷的在滴答滴答的響它離我們是越來越迫近 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6336.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6356.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
過去只有空軍到現在海軍到現在海警到現在從西部到東部從南到北我認為我們不能夠因為任何的單一事件把我們的警惕降低那美國的能力我想還是全世界全球是最有能力做軍事投射的但是另外一方面中共離我們真的非常近所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6357.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6369.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
1.25兆的這個總預算裡面我認為我們也必須要跟在野黨來去很告訴他們很迫切的告訴他們說哪一些是我們現在要面臨極端需要要快速取得的這些無謀 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6371.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6396.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
剛才也有許多人提到這1.25兆裡面特別是有美國美國的八項對台軍售案它裡面有包含這一個海馬斯的多管火箭還有這些標槍飛彈系統等等的裝備我認為這是為了要確保中共不會緩慢改變現狀我們的有必要的利期那我是希望說我們能夠做的假設這一黨對1.25兆有意見沒關係我們先從這一個已經 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6400.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6419.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
八項對台軍售案這個地方我們來開始從這個地方我們來開始來討論一下有沒有機會不然我們看到這個時間每次我就看到這些黨立委不斷的在講到說中共已經越來越近了那我就要問那所以呢所以我們要怎麼辦所以你們要怎麼做不要一方面再去講說中共的威脅 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6421.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6440.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
一方面又在誇示中共的軍武的能力但是一方面又不想要增強我方自己的能力這就是在野黨委員我是比較不懂的地方比較弔詭的地方不斷的在誇示中共的能力但是叫你們要增強國防卻又不講話或者是又幫對方講話這件事情是我們沒有辦法理解我們也沒有辦法支持的 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6441.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6459 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
那我們剛才提到的說除了整個這個台海的現狀的改變之外另外一方面我們跟有盟國家剛才外交部有提到各個國家的不同的看法那我們要把它們聯合起來在南海改變現狀這20年從這個把這個推動大型的填海工程 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6459.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6477.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
到推動聯海工程之後就說沒有我們那個是和平方案只是要做科研到後來見證寶島之後把寶島建設完之後他說那只是透過這個讓這些海警啊相關的這些救援的這些機隊來去做降落到架設雷達之後說這是只是做防禦範圍到最後架設飛彈系統的時候那他就說沒有這只是沒有針對任何一個國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6482.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6506.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
但是在那20年之內 填島造礁然後到填島 把火砲都做好了把雷達做好了 把飛彈都做好了這就是緩慢的改變現狀這就是現在我們面臨的問題所以我也想要請教部長我們如果不是遇到一次性的這種大型的襲擊而是現在已經變成新常態了我們到底要怎麼樣二指住他們不斷地再往前進一次一次地切得越來越近了 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6507.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6527.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
那我們必須 你說要劃下紅線一號我們有什麼樣反制的方式才不會讓他們緩慢的改變現狀我想我們所要強調的是說中國的這個威脅確實存在而且日趨嚴峻這件事情國連一定要有所警覺 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6528.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6554.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
那我們強化我們的自我防衛的能力不管在應對灰色地帶的侵擾或者是應對可能的全面的一個入侵我們都要做好萬全的一個準備那對這樣的一個準備我們當然是希望我們透過這些特別條例來快速籌獲可視戰力滿足我們防衛作戰的一個需求我們希望當然得到大院委員的支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6556.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6578.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
部長我的意思是說沒關係這個之後再說好沒關係我是說每一次他們就越來越近那我們沒有辦法阻止這個緩慢的進程有沒有相關的戰略或戰術讓他們不要再靠近來去執行他們的這個戰術的細節因為我們現在看到從中線到24到12現在是甚至有10彈進入24嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6579.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6607.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
那我的意思就是說我們接下來的下一步要怎麼做不然他不斷的切切切就這個部分我簡要的回答五言兩個第一個就是說我想我們運用聯合情建制手段來預先來預應這個可能的一個共軍可能的行動這是第一點第二點我們的突發狀況處置規定我們要隨時來檢討所以我們針對這一次的軍演我們似乎也做AR我們來檢討我們各項的一個處置的作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6607.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6635.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
那也要預印以後可能面對更有嚴峻的作為的時候我們應該要如何應處我想這個都是我們應該要做的但詳細的內容我想也不便在這邊做一個公開的說明沒關係 我們要的是就是結果嘛結果就是盡量不要再靠近那不要靠近的其他戰術什麼作為這個麻煩國防部可以來跟包含海巡署一起來思考一下好不好是 謝謝謝謝陳冠廷委員 各位請回號接下來進行巡達委員羅美玲委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6646.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6648.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
謝謝主席有請國防部副部長是 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6658.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6684.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
部長好 部長今天晚上很不幸的我們新博弈上位所駕駛的這個F16戰機執行夜訓的時候在花蓮外海失事那到現在是毫無音訊嗎是不是 部長到目前毫無音訊是不是到現在為止當然最重要就是說我們沒有收穫到這個有關那個相關的一個訊號就是包括 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6685.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6707.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
求生的訊號就是包括彈射儀會發出的然後還有這個他身上的這個背心裡面會訊標機他只要碰觸海水就會啟動的這樣的一個訊標機確實現在沒有收獲任何的訊號但是我想我們並不放棄所以我們持續不斷的來進行盡全力來進行搜救 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6708.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6735.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
是这件事情其实让国人是非常的这个揪心那这件事情当然我们也凸显了我们军这个空军的装备确实有一些不足的这个地方所以我在想国防部应该要加紧这个脚步无论是刚刚有我已经提到的自动防装系统或者是说先前我有看到所谓防寒飞行衣等等我想能够尽数来安装的筹获的我们的尽快尽快来做筹获那甚至有些 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6736.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6750.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
裝備需要去做升級的我在想這應該都要來做來保障我們國軍執行任務的安全再來的話我要延續剛剛我們陳冠廷委員所提到的共軍的軍演 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
6752.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
6775.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
共軍在元旦前進行環台經驗,這是過去三年半以來中共對台的第七次大規模的經驗,而且無論是在這個化社區域也好,或者是說它距離本島的距離都是有史以來最近的,而且這個進航區的範圍也是非常的大,而且對這次的民航交通都有很大的影響。 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
6776.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
6796.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
這都是遠遠超過過去那我在想這已經不是威懾恐嚇了這已經是共軍已經是在具體的演練對台的這個封控那這個封鎖的能力我在想這是他這次要來做這個展現那國防部這裡會不會擔心有哪一天發生油鹽轉戰如果發生這種突發狀況的話我國的軍備有沒有辦法來做應付呢請問部長如果哪天突然間有擦槍走火的這個狀況的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
6805.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
6832.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
跟委員報告我們做了這個事先掌握一些疫情徵口之後關鍵的疫情徵口之後我們就預想已經啟動立即備戰操演那所以對於這樣的立即備戰操演在我們的報告裡面大概也在說明就是說他從事相對的這個演習的活動我們當然也要從事相對的演習的活動然後維持我們個快速反應的一個能力 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
6833.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
6845.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
來以防任何的一個土花狀況的一個轉變那當然他所採取的這些手段他會不會再進一步升級這要透過一個我們聯合情監的手段或者甚至 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
6846.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
6874.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
坦白講要跟我們有盟也要進行一個情質的必要情質的一些交換等等我會做一個研判那每一個研判都會相對應的會對應我們應該要如何的採取相關的一個行動我想那確實面臨的這個情況是越來越嚴峻所以我們也要每一個針對每一個狀況事後都要來進行檢討我們的處置那我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
6876.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
6898.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
這都是在我們國防部應盡的一個責任的範圍之內對 看起來共軍對台灣的軍演是越勒越緊這也是他們的目標那當然國人也有很擔心就是說像他們目前軍演的狀態真的是越來越嚴峻到底 當然 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
6899.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
6919.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
也許我們真的有這些情資我們可能事先知道他們什麼時候要軍演可是呢我們也很擔心說我們目前的一些關鍵的防衛裝備到底夠不夠那有哪些已經到位了哪些還在依這個期程交付當中這部分的話我想國防部可能要給國人一些信心 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
6920.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
6925.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
到底因為我們目前都看到在野黨都說你們這些軍購案有很多這個軍購的這個品項都還沒有交付所以國人擔心說都這樣子的話那如果真的突然有突發狀況的話我們要如何處置我們真的有沒有辦法保護我們自己我們的軍備我們這些防備裝備到底有沒有辦法來做自我來做這個防衛我想這個部分是有些國人是會非常擔心 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
6950.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
6969.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
那當然我想我希望在這裡國防部對於這個防備那當然我們有所謂的分階段來做進行那這部分的話這部分要不要在這裡多說明一下呢我們有哪些裝備其實已經在騎乘當中交付有哪些已經到位了 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
6969.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
6995.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
而不是在野黨一再強調說我們買的這些軍購這些軍備品其實到目前為止幾乎都還沒有依其成來交付這部分要在這裡說明一下嗎我想我們應該是說這個部分有分三塊一個是軍購一個是商購另外一個是我們的委制我們的自主的生產能力 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
6996.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7019.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
我們從國防自主的觀點來看當然在我們能夠做到的範圍之內我們一定想辦法來強化我們的國防自主的能力那至於有關軍購的部分我想之前都已經有說明過現在最主要當然延遲的部分就是剛剛也有委員問到的F16VBlock 拐動這一個部分那另外我記得還有兩項是 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7022.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7050.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
154C的AGM154然後還有Mark48的魚雷我想這些部分我們都會跟美方來不斷地進行就是說美方位置要都成立相關的這些專案辦公室像F16就特別要成立專案辦公室讓我們來積極地加速他們的產製 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7052.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7070.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
所以我想這些部分是在軍購案當中我們在原則上我們在軍購的當下我們都會跟美方去確認就是說他所能夠交付的時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7073.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7097.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
當然在這個過程當中會涉及到每方的一個產政能量還有我們設定的這些相關的這些規格等等那有些比如像F16B它事實上是都是最新的一個配備所以它還是可能會有一些研發的一個過程像我也特別講一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7099.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7121.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
提到那個自動防撞系統因為我們兩棟是類比式的那因為原來洛克希克馬丁它的防撞系統就裝在數位式的所以我們要109年請洛克希克馬丁研發的時候那確實我們就知道我們會面對就是說要從把它這個數位式的防撞系統裝在類比式的時間確實需要 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7123.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7146.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
一點時間延趕那我想迄今還在還在順利所以我們希望疫情能夠是不是能夠在今年年底能夠開始能夠獲得籌貨所以我想這些每一個個案都有他的一些一些不同的一些狀況那我們都會努力的來來跟美方進行溝通就軍購的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7148.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7151.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
這部分除了說我們努力要跟美國溝通之外儘快的能夠籌獲這些品項再來跟國人也要不斷的做說明當然也許很多國人並不了解目前的狀況一直聽到F16B為什麼我們已經到現在一架都沒有類似這樣的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7171.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7182.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
我之前看了一個在社交平台上面有一個一位太太跟先生的一個對話其實如果用這種比較淺顯的方式讓國人去了解可能知道就是說其實我們這個防衛建構本來就是來做分階段來做進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7192.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7210.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
譬如說這個太太就問先生說寶寶需要的奶粉買了嗎然後先生就說我已經刷卡付錢買了可是還沒有到貨那太太就說我還需要尿布我還需要寶寶的乳液我還要濕紙巾等等可是先生就說可是這個奶粉都還沒有到貨這些東西你都不要跟我說 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7211.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7238.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
就類似這樣子可能比較讓國人去清楚了解就是說我們現在面臨的這個問題並不是說我某一樣這個品項還沒到我其他都不准賣所以我去看了這個用比較淺顯的方式去講我們的所謂的這個防衛建構的這個議題我想這樣的說法是非常淺顯易懂那我也說明就是說美方並不是所有的我們的軍官交務都遲延 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7238.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7253.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
那我隨便舉一個例子那就是Artist 600我們舉這個對嘛 我剛剛有問有哪些已經到位了哪些一期程有交付他交付了那我想M1A2大家也都有看到那海馬仕我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7254.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7283.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
我們現在在這一次已經公開了我們海馬寺海馬寺我覺得是一個非常非常重要的一個我們防衛作戰所需要的一個具有機動性存活力高而且有演成精準火力的然後能夠做跨距增援等等的這樣子的一個系統那我們原來的29套之外我們再加過82套所以我們會上增加到上百套以上那這整個對我們防衛作戰的那一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7286.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7301.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
這種部署或者是運用的彈性會改變很大也就是說我們的傳統的這樣子的一個砲兵的火力藉由這個海馬式大量的一個購買跟這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7304.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7331.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
我們部署之後呢整個防衛作戰能力會有進一步的提升我想這個是非常重要的當然也希望大院能夠支持這個我們後續這個82套的這個公案放在特別預算裡面OK 好 因為時間的關係那對於這個共軍的這個步步逼近我在想這個部分呢對於這個軍購這個國防預算我想應該朝野都部分彼此應該來共同來支持好 以上謝謝好 謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7339.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7345.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
謝謝美琳委員接下來有請王定宇召委謝謝主席 麻煩國防部長以及空軍參謀長還有我們副參謀總長執行官有請部長參謀長還有副參謀長執行官 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7366.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7387.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
是 王委員好待會兒我會就GKS NMC還有112G來就教於三位不過現在請問因為昨天我們看那個鏡頭拍到我們F16V墜海的時候有個火光那個火光到底是 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7389.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7397.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
彈射座椅的噴煙還是飛機本身的火焰那另外現在搜救的情形是不是可以簡單一分鐘說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7400.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7424.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
因為現在這個事實調查還在進行中所以說我們會針對所有的市政來做一個研判那在研判出來之前我們這邊不便做一個臆測所以說這個火焰的部分我們有看到媒體上的我們也去調閱這個監視器我們目前事實調查還在進行中因為那個火焰如果是彈射座椅的那它就是人跟飛機是分開了 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7426.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7445.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
那如果本身是飛機機體的那我想這兩個事情會對搜救的方向會有差異我們當然對任何非安事件我們自己空軍出來的沒有最後的非安判定我們不要去臆測這些臆測其實非常不妥當但這個是已經彰顯出來的現象你們的研判上那個火焰到底是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7447.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7473.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
因為這個還是跟委員報告因為這個現在我們的非安調查都還在進行這些事證包含了所有的錄音超鑑當天的狀況攝影機的這個鏡頭等等目前都在收整所以說這邊還是跟委員報告我們不做太多的臆測避免誤導我尊重那我希望我們盡快把我們的弟兄帶回來我們搜救的想定不會侷限於某一部分我們會全面性的來做我先講GCAS的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7474.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7493.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
這個防撞的系統在目前的進度我聽說已經完成系統整合是否為真美軍已經在做是非的動作系統整合已經完成了現在在做是非是非完成之後下一步是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7494.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7513.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
它是非有很多的系統要去做一個整合因為它的控制非常的複雜而且它的要整個接替飛行員的操作所以說在安全上這是非常重要它是分很多階段來做雖然說我們只聽到一個飛撤但是飛撤裡面的科目非常多飛撤不同的東西 項目會不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7514.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7542.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
這個是takeover它要把你的操縱桿接管回來這個測試本身也有危險性非常危險所以說慎重起見也是為什麼是說它是在全數位上面的飛機已經運用這麼多年但是在類比上要轉成數位飛控要花這麼多的時間舉個簡單的例子跟委員報告就是說我今天蓋一棟新房子可能很快但是在一個老房子裡面去把它整成新房子那可能要比原來要花更多的時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7543.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7567.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
因為我們現在要了解因為這個東西對維繫我們飛行員的生命安全非常重要那我為什麼要特別請這個副執行官上來因為我們當時是2018年6月4號吳彥廷中校 後來追風中校他在北部空域的五分山撞山當時就是我在那邊提質詢然後我們快速在9月份把他列入預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7568.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7586.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
然後隔年2019年把GCAS列為我們希望在原來的奉展專案如果叫做1.0是沒有這個的後來就希望把全部的F16AB型的奉展專案追加等於2.0加了這個項目進去我記得第二年你就是參謀長是 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7587.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7614.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
你就是現在參謀長這個位置所以這個狀況比較了解所以目前這個GCAS防撞的系統已經在進行飛測那飛測還有很多項目要做飛測做完下面就是要組裝了那我們現在F16AB提升到F16V本身機體要跟它銜接的裡面的不管是裡面的線路的裝束各方面有沒有做備變等它要來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7615.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7638.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
是的 這個現在有關這個防撞系統最主要現在在測試的就是它的非控電腦那其他的有關線數和結構的部分實際上這已經備料並且完成設計所以線數已經備變 是 線數然後我們現在等這個系統測試完成就是跟線數要連結在一起就是組裝其他的這個硬體 設備以及設計的部分都已經完成了我知道大家都擠 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7639.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7653.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
我們都不希望有自己的弟兄在那裡發生事情要等著搜救都是某個人的親人 孩子或丈夫是我們的跑者嘛所以沒有人會希望這個慢剛才講2018年6月4號吳彥霆到2019年列入預算當然我曉得對一般人來講 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7660.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7677.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
為什麼不能隔年就裝好為什麼不能第三年就裝好我們都急但是這個問題在哪裡剛才其實各位有說明過但是我想要讓國人更清楚了解過去GCAS是用在全數位戰鬥機從來沒有用在類比式的戰鬥機 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7679.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7707.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
而全數位戰鬥機是在Block 70這個Block 70之後它就內建在上面了所以我們全新的66架內建就有GCAS但是F16AB型它是類比式的你用數位式的操控要去接管Takeover它的這個過程那個有點像特斯拉你要讓它的自駕系統要裝在你家的手排的老爺車一樣這樣大家都聽得懂了 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7707.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7710.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
就是我原來的舊款的車型 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7712.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7740.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
不是數位的你要把特斯拉的全自動駕駛我們現在大概任何車款都有自動駕駛你要把它裝到之前上兩個世代的老爺車你不測試完成你上路你放心嗎會有問題所以GCAS的部分我們請空軍相關單位把相關進度要確實一個進度一個節點要讓我們委員會知道第二個我要請教三位的MMC的問題這一個模組化的任務電腦 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7742.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
7755.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
他看起來這一次是有故障的情形因為他在呼的這個他在無線電上有呈現這個任務電腦本身到底有多重要有人說他是飛機的大腦他到底整合了哪些東西 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
7757.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
7783.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
就如同您所提的它就是一個飛機的一個大腦的這個功能所有的導航 飛行 控制 還有武器都是藉由這一個任務電腦來做一個處理所以是Module Mission Computer它裡面包含飛行最重要的姿態核心 是高度 速度 方位還有它武器系統相關方面好 它一旦失效 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
7784.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
7804.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
你們兩位都是飛行員NMC一旦失效在飛行上會有什麼影響包委員因為就是因為這個系統非常的複雜所以說它的故障的態樣也是非常的多所以說要看它故障的態樣是Level 1 Level 2它影響到的裝備都有不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
7805.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
7824.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
那它失效了比方說我們很重要的飛行的高度飛行的姿態我們有一個備用姿態儀在飛機上所以旁邊有一個備用姿態儀是在飛機的右上角廊板的右上角上面有一個備用的姿態儀所以當MNC故障之後我在看因為他們有個黃卡根據黃卡我要排除那排除要花幾秒 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
7826.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
7843.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
他做一個 這個所以跟委員報告他的故障太陽非常多有些是故障他自己會恢復有些你要去Reset的電門九成以上他都會恢復成這樣那恢復時間要多久這個要Depends他的故障的狀況大概是幾秒鐘就可以恢復那個副參謀總長 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
7846.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
7870.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
包委員這個MNC它這個電腦實際上就跟我們使用這個一般的電腦情況一樣它有時候是站態性的可是它會告訴我們暫時的站狀態的給我們一個故障代碼可是實際上在飛機上並沒有任何影響它就過一會它自動恢復因為我們如果進到雲裡面或者在特殊狀況海天一線我在空間上就我這一個大腦裡面顯示的飛行姿態如果暫時 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
7872.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
7892.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
失效的時候最最糟糕會產生問題嗎最糟糕情況就是他的這個對飛機的這個姿態的判斷的顯示會不正確可是飛機上還有一個備用系統我們飛行員按照黃卡的處置就會立刻參考備用系統黃卡排除黃卡建議看這個相關的備用的姿態儀可是是的 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
7892.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
7921.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
可是因為當時飛行員如果碰到的情況是都是複雜多變的雖然這一個情況發生那座艙裡頭還沒有別的情況影響到飛行員其他的判斷和操作尤其是有沒有像類似在發生空間迷向生理上又受到影響的時候在這個對飛行員的處置上因為在緊急的狀況的時候哪怕是一秒兩秒其實都是攸關的那這一個在F16AB提升它會有這些站態或者是失效失能的狀態 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
7923.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
7938.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
他發生的頻率還有你們有沒有提出什麼經濟要求原廠公司進行修改因為不管多少比例這個其實是有危險性的是這個這一部分實際上從20多年前我們第一次接受F16這個所有的 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
7939.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
7965.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
F16都一樣一接收的一段一定會有一段時間是這個系統要重新適應這個新的狀況並且在這個ROM的過程中我們會慢慢發現缺點大概都是ROM一陣子以後它就會穩定那F16現在這個新裝的這個新型的MNC在今年年初以後它的這個新的軟體上機以後在去年年初上機以後它的這個故障率已經明顯的降低現在的狀況已經趨於穩定它的故障率並沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
7965.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
7993.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
高於其他的系統我們去年有對MMC做系統的更新一直在做每隔一陣子就會做那更新之後你說會降低因為這個速度 速電頻率我今天時間不夠沒辦法問我最後只請教一個問題因為時間關係我聽相關的同仁我們的袍澤弟兄說1122機的求生發報機連在潛水的時候那個潛水 深水潛水的時候都會失效這一次它也沒有訊號出來我們的1122機到底有沒有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
7995.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8021.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
112機是美軍現役的求生發報機所以說我們也是經過爭取以後因為它裡頭有戰場加密功能也是經過爭取以後美軍才開放供售給我們那當然這是無線電機無線電機在水只要是無線電的東西在水底下它的信號當然都是沒辦法出來的所以說它並沒有說是因為觸水就失效而是它受到這個物理 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8022.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8040.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
這個環境的限制如果它真的沉到水裡的話它當然這個無線電信號是沒辦法發出來的電波發不出來那它是彈射出來它就自動啟動還是人要去按它我們現在都是因為要讓飛行員在彈射的時候受到激勵它就可以自動發射信號所以說它就是在彈射的那一刻它就應該要發射信號它應該會自動發射 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8042.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8057.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
那觸水到水裡面是因為那個波紋沒辦法傳遞它另外還有一個海水觸發的功能所以說實際上它是有雙重保障的就是你彈射出來它會觸發你碰到海水它會觸發這些都是維繫生命非常重要的裝備我是覺得要經常性高比例的抽驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8058.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8079.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
因為這個1122機如果你說觸水它會觸發會打開來可是到水裡面有一定的深度它的無線電波又傳不出來我們周邊都是水域嘛這飛行員在每次在上機在著裝的時候都有相關的測試的要檢查另外從我們檢視從114年到現在這個1122機都沒有故障的記錄好 謝謝 那我時間到這邊我們後續我們再繼續追蹤好 謝謝定宇 趙偉 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8093.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8108.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
好 接下來進行詢答的委員 陳俊宇委員好 謝謝召委 我們有請顧部長來 部長請部長早部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8117.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8129.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
近幾年中共對於我們台灣的軍事脅迫的量能持續在增加共軍擾台的數量也從2022年到2023年1700多架到2024年的5109架我們也推估2025年的總數還會更高 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8139.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8164.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
甚至在我們今天所聚焦的這一場軍演當中還出現當日的這個130架次的這個紀錄那在去年底這場軍演時間較以往來得更晚尤其在這個12月底東北季風強烈台灣周邊海域的這個海象通常不好的情況之下但是解放軍卻還是挑在這個時間點來進行軍演 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8167.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8189.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
從我們東部戰區所公布的資訊來看雖然提到要打擊台獨和外部干涉的勢力但是在化社演習區仍然刻意避開日本顯示這次的演訓主要的目標還是要封控台灣的港口並且後續軍演的10個小時當中統計有941 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8194.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8209.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
航班還有10萬旅客受到影響造成我們空運航線的重大衝擊中共在去年12月29日早上也宣布要進行演習但是也由於年底是共軍演訓的熱期 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8211.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8240.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
本來就不排除相關的可能性那我們國安單位也應該有4千有掌握這個相關的情資那我們從這個東部戰區的這個公告來看他們這次演習包含四大科目其一就是這個海空戰備的這個警巡還有第二個是奪取中和治權再來是要港要域的一個封控那 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8241.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8270.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
以及新增加的這個外線立體這個褶組等其中新加入的這個外線立體褶組解讀上應該是為了要防止美國跟日本等外國軍事資源介入這個台海但我們從實際的這個演練內容來看這項科目在演習當中還有什麼樣的意涵實際上有沒有新的做法這個部分是不是請部長簡要說明一下科目委員報告我想這個部分我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8272.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8288.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
我們就只講說它一個比較明顯的共軍動態來跟委員報告好了第一股當然就是說在12月27號到28號有共艦兩艘陸續通過宮古海峽進入西太平洋然後在30號有十環這個東海這樣的一個動態 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8290.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8311.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
另外一個就是說有共機的八架在29號通過了宮古海峽進入西太平洋然後當日就沿這個航線來返航另外當然就是西太平洋有一個南站回來的這個兩棲的攻擊艦的編隊那我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8312.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8327.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
我們不去詳細的幫他演繹什麼叫做外線立體擇阻我們只是就實際的狀況來跟委員做個說明那不管共軍使用什麼樣的戰術名稱我想這些舉動都已經嚴重迫害區域的穩定來挑戰國際秩序 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8329.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8354.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
好 那我們也確實有掌握到共軍在這次的這個軍演當中發射了27枚遠程火箭那第一波是落在我們基隆東北方第二波是落在我們台南的西方那鄰近我24海里這個臨街線的周邊並且擔任涉及任務的是號稱中國版的這個海馬式 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8356.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8375.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
遠程相似的火箭炮先前遠程火箭對台灣的威脅已經受到高度的關注並逐步在進行更大規模的部署這次又有貼近實戰的演練我想請教部長跟您討論是我們怎麼解讀火箭 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8376.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8393.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
軍的這個動態並且在這次演習沒有發射這個彈道飛彈是否代表遠程火箭將成為攻軍攻台的一個主要火力那國防部目前怎麼評估他對我們台灣的一個威脅我們主要採取什麼樣手段來做反制 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8394.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8422.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
我想如果共軍真的要進行所謂聯合火力打擊的話那我想相關的這些不管是彈道飛彈或者是遠程火箭跟其他各類型的飛彈都是它可能攻台的一個火力選擇的一個項目那我們對於各型的火力系統都要持續掌握然後要依整體的作戰情境來進行綜合的研判這我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8425.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8432.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
那對於我們這個因應這個不管是遠程火箭或彈道飛彈威脅我們的防護手段有包括這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8434.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8457.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
這個主動攔截跟各式的被動防禦的作為那我想這個部分有四色機敏就暫不以對外公開好那另外我們在這一次的演訓當中掌握到中共的這三艘航空母艦包括遼寧號 山東號 還有福建號都沒有參與這一次的軍演那我想請教部長我們判斷是什麼原因那是否有觀察到 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8457.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8476.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
其他這個共軍基建在演習期間在第一第二島鏈之間進行相關的這個演練有沒有就我們掌握的是中共航母三艘在軍演期間都在港都在港並沒有任何出動那您剛剛問的其他的共 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8477.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8497.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
軍的基建我想就跟剛剛您前面垂詢的一樣我們有看到27 28有共機兩艘通過宮古海峽進入西太然後30號石環然後共機的八架通過在29號通過宮古然後另外當然他南站有一個LHA就是兩棲的攻擊艦那他 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8498.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8522.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
之前由湛江起航之後那後在我想應該是在現在看到回程有經過巴士海峽那在這個也返航的期間有參加這個共軍的這一次的針對性軍演然後也航進我們的東南的這個海域但狀況就是這樣子好那 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8524.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8550.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
比起這個哈姆那在這次這個演習當中我們看到零七五型動拐五的這個兩棲攻擊艦首度的參與對台的軍演或許這個更值得我們注意的是由於這個零七五型的可以同時搭載多架直升機快速運送一定規模的這個兵力展開登陸作戰那不論是對於台灣或是周邊國家都構成極大的威脅我想請教部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8551.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8579.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
那就國防部的掌握我們這次看到零七五型在台灣東南外海進行這個核種的這個訓練我們目前在東部的這個部署是否有這個足夠的量能來反制它所帶來的這個威脅就我們現在所偵測到的應該在我們周邊海域的活動期間它沒有做這個直升機的一個從甲板起飛的一個動作 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8581.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8606 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
沒有啦沒有那對於我們的這個威脅您個人認為我想這個兩棲攻擊艦它的一個boost或者LPD像這樣的類型的boost它是確實是會在我們東邊做一些常態性也有一些也平常也不只是這個針對性的軍演這樣子好 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8606.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8635.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
那就這個不論是零七五型兩棲攻擊艦的參與還是對我們東部戰力構成的相對的威脅性還是說以這個遠程火箭取代彈道飛彈企圖對我們進行這個低成本的這個飽和攻擊等等還有可能這個中國這一次也利用了許多這個AI生成假影像進行認知作戰都顯示這個敵人的手段 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8636.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8659.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
變得更為這個複合且靈活那我也想這個部分請國防部就是持續去掌握相關的情質以確保我們國家的一個安全我想中國應該都是會除了這個用軍事威懾之外也會不斷的搭配認知戰法律戰然後甚至輿論戰那等等這些我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
8660.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
8677.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
這種複合式的威脅我們都要結合相關的這些單位都來進行一個有效的應對這我想那我們會一直不斷的來根據他的這種這種複合式的威脅的一些改變我們也會來設法進進這樣子好 以上謝謝部長的答詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
8692.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
8701.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
謝謝主席有請國防部的顧部長以及外交部的陳次長一起好嗎 等一下就不需要上來謝謝兩位請來先請教部長是 兩位這個大家很關心F16-14的這個事情那個飛行員現在情況怎麼樣有打擾到了沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
8718.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
8731.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
我們現在有就我早上6點的我們派出了30的飛機架子然後有22艘然後另外無人機有兩架那都在全力的進行這個輸贏當中現在還沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
8734.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
8755.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
再有進一步的一個是 我想全國人民都希望他能夠平安無事啦這個國防部這邊也在努力一下一定要想辦法這個要幫他救急那失事的主因啊這個外界也不斷的講大概我想是部長在這裡已經講了大概有人歸納為 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
8757.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
8767.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
兩大點或者是好幾點第一個就是主電腦任務電腦的故障再過來是夜間飛行空間的迷失這兩點你們認嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
8770.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
8794.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
我想請包委員 這個還是一樣就是說四次調查的過程中我們不宜做太多的臆測那避免誤導整個調查的方向所以說我們不排除任何的可能這兩個是原因之 可能性很高吧可能是原因之一 但是我們不做臆測另外有一個就是自動防撞系統沒有裝這是怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
8797.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
8819.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
這個剛剛也跟前面委員報告過防撞系統本來在我們奉展就是我們block兩棟性能提升裡面是沒有這個工項的那也不幸的在107年發生了一個F16撞山的事件之後我們在隔月就請美方來做簡報那才把後來才爭取預算把這一個工項目前還沒有完成什麼時候可以裝 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
8822.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
8829.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
預判今年年底可以安裝上機再請教比較技術問題或者我請教我對我來講是外行的這裡提到F16V是不是我們要買66架那個F16V不一樣吧 對不對這個是block 兩棟那個是拐棟 對 不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
8844.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
8854.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
一個是類比式的非超的系統一個是數位式的非超系統所以這也就是為什麼自動防撞系統本來是裝在全數位式的那現在把它裝在類比式如果是按照前面講的話我們就可以看到這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
8862.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
8890.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
這些都是維護的問題啊那就產生了一個問題囉我們在2020年才成立很大啦啦的很大聲的講因為我們的F16大概全球如果把F16加進來數量最多了吧F16A、B啦Upgrade啦 鳳翔Upgrade什麼之類的然後加上要來的F16價全球幾乎最多我們成立一個F16維修中心亞太維修中心 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
8891.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
8908.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
結果結果今天來講這不是2020成立而且那個是在offset一個program裡面經濟部主導的成立這個結果很漏氣啊maintenance維護維修結果自己弄得不怎麼樣現在再怎麼樣你們現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
8910.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
8911.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
現在沒有把結果是講出來可是外界怎麼看波斯抽檢就是維修的問題 維護的問題不管是你電腦或者是空中飛行的問題都是維修的問題啊難道不是嗎 對不對長官 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
8924.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
8940.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
包委員這應該不是維修的問題因為維修中心當時成立的時候是針對比較能夠快速取得國內能夠製作那還有很重要一個因素它叫美政府的第三方轉移同意然後原廠要同意轉移 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
8941.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
8944.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
現在就是美國有些關鍵技術不給我們是核心技術的部分他沒有轉移的話其實我們是不能做維修兩位請回 次長我就問一句話而已現在看到最新的川普總統他sign了說美國要退出66個國際組織那這樣一來的話我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
8964.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
8968.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
我們現在參加國際組織幾乎都是美國在背後幫我們忙包括WHA 包括WHO之類的還有其他很多的周邊組織等等的都是美國在幫忙現在美國退出 我們怎麼辦我們在川普總統就任之後多次明確表達對我們的國際支持的支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
8987.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9008.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
那麼國際參與的支持喔 那麼我們也都有感謝喔那麼相關的這個政策方面我們都跟這個美國政府保持密切的一個聯繫喔那麼這個事情上面我們現在還是保持這樣你沒有回到問題啊我說他現在自己都退出 而且按照Rubio講的他現在支持66個 還有後續還有增加一些就越來 他越來越一直退出他覺得成本效益美國他退出 對不對他就是看到美國這一塊 其他他要退能夠退 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9016.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9034.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
那這種情況之下我們以前參加的國際組織都是靠美國幫我們講話那未來怎麼辦比如大家念茲在茲的CPTPP他早就不在啦所以他也沒辦法聽我們講話啊那其他的比如說我們想加入的IKEA或最少是觀察員WHA這個現在來講都失去美國這種幫我們講話的一個動力在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9040.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9059.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
包委員我們還是跟其他理念相近的國家密切合作爭取那麼事實上在國際參與上面美國並沒有減少他對我們的支持那他有會在透過各種的管道跟其他的會員國跟理念相近的國家表示他願意支持我們這樣的一個參與好啦一句話啦希望你們就是要告訴美方雖然你退出了我們希望你幫我們講話啦就是這個意思啦謝謝賴視保委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9070.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9097.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
本席提醒外交部川普簽署的31個聯合國組織35個非聯合國組織他沒有公佈明細他到底退出哪些組織你們要掌握一下因為剛才賴委員所關心的不管RKL WHO或者是看起來比較明確只有UNFCCC但是其他到底還有哪些沒有人知道所以你們如果不知道狀況你沒有辦法去研判你該怎麼應酬這個本席提醒 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9099.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9125.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
對 你們如果掌握到是哪66個 或者美國公佈了也許我們委員會再來討論 好 謝謝好 接下來進行詢問的委員是林楚瑩委員那個 林委員本席跟妳參詳一下休息一下嗎 可以可以沒問題 可以Hold得住嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9127.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9134.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
好 那我就盡量不要超過時間謝謝 謝謝部長那我先宣告一下 待會林淳於委員討論結束我們休息五分鐘好 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9137.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9157.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
好有請顧部長以及我要請國安局的檢副局長這樣一起會比較有效率一點部長早我要問的其實這個問題我在問上禮拜詢問這個僑委會的委員長的時候也有提過但我不是就範重炒而是呢其實我們都知道這個對於國軍的滲透 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9160.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9181.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
方方面面那麼之前我也曾經提過包括借款的方式等等那麼這個已經被僑委會證實其實是一個所謂的假的又或者是所謂的借殼上市的這樣的一個組織那麼他特別直指是要國軍或者是志願役那麼要徵求他們的軍裝然後來把 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9185.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9191.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
這個所謂投降改成反戰因為我們知道在隔壁的會議室當中我們正好在修這個陸海空軍刑法啦喔那麼這樣的一個作為跟做法包括你看他提供的這一個信箱他就是at163.com這是中國的信箱那麼當面對這樣的狀況的時候我不知道國防部是不是有了解到現在這種所謂的假僑團調軍中照那麼像這樣子的一個做法喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9215.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9223.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
而且這個我沒有特別列出來的是在我質詢之後他沒有下架他反而改了一個方式甚至於他依照不一樣的軍種他還給不一樣的價碼 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9227.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9252.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
那像這樣的一個做法確實它某種程度上會不會是國軍的新的滲透的手法那麼國防部目前有注意到這樣的部分嗎我想現在中國它滲透的這個手法確實是越來越多樣我想我們主要是有一個國安聯防機制我們會協調大局跟刑事局還有各國安單位我們會針對這個網路傳遞的 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9255.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9265.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
網路這樣子一個相關的手法我們要加強那個網路的巡檢那詳細的部分好像我了解這是一個要不要說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9267.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9295.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
我是保安署署長這是一個一次性的帳號後面他有衍生其他我們都有反求他的IP位置確實是他是要匡遍我們國軍線推人員把這些資料送上去之後他去獲得你的個人資料然後去吸收利用那這個目前我們有掌握到也有通報國安單位共同來應酬這個我們都有成立在國安局的專案機制下都有共同的在追爭以上報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9295.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9300.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
好 謝謝表示說其實現在國防部跟相關單位是有動起來為什麼會來特別質詢這個就是因為我也要必須強調為什麼我這個資訊是怎麼來的我這個資訊其實是來自於另外一個所謂靠北長官但是這個靠北長官很有趣他叫做靠北長官2026知己知彼大陸軍情我們知道其實像這樣的社群平台不勝美舉 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9323.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9329.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
我個人認為啦站在言論自由的角度真的有的時候各行各業都會有靠北什麼什麼這個我們以前在媒體也有所謂的靠北長官這個都是他們抒發但是如果說這樣子的這個社群媒體的存在他完全不單純因為我特別去了解了一下他 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9344.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9363.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
是分享大陸多種資訊避免井底之蛙看起來好像是要提供中國甚至於解放軍的資訊但是他所設立的地點在鳳凰城而他的管理員裡面部長你看一下有寫CAI |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9364.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9367.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
這個拼音應該是菜啦可是台灣的菜應該不是這樣拼然後還有什麼彎彎go home彎彎回家這個都是中國慣用的統戰術語所以顯然這樣的管理員不單純 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9383.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9388.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
那麼裡面如果你去細看它的內容那就更詭異了比如說呢它有這個影片雖然說是要來顯示台灣的國軍威武但是裡面其實都是在講中國的解放軍有多強大然後呢有幫忙宣傳中國的貿易戰的說法甚至於還有什麼假借貸就是之前我非常關心的就是幫國軍弟兄 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9414.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9416.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
解圍讓他們好過年三個月零利息那麼就像剛剛也有報告過的這些零零種種喔這樣的新滲透的型態首先我還是要強調我不是要箝制言論自由因為最近在野黨不斷的在扣這樣的帽子 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9430.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9439.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
但是這樣的透過社群平台的滲透它確實存在那麼像這樣子到底要用什麼方式有效的杜絕難道說只是剛剛所講的我們聯手國安單位或者是調查單位來做處理嗎因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9446.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9461.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
這個畢竟是一個封閉的社群到底有哪些國軍弟兄有去參與了甚至於被他吸收到了訊息甚至於丟出一些相關的機密這個部分真的有辦法來做了解跟釐清嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9463.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
9491.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
我想我們一方面要對國軍我們有一個規定就是這個國軍在使用社群媒體的一個我應該是另班在去年沒有 前年的應該已經是前年的10月28號10月28我們另班的國軍人員使用社群媒體的一個陰性注意事項所以我們會加強宣導這個國軍他們特別是現役的人員他在使用這些社群媒體要 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
9492.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
9495.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
要注意的一些事項那當然現在我們還有一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
9497.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
9526.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
就是說他在網路上不斷的進行誘吸這些作為我們這個在軍中的整個相關的這些保護的工作我們都要來加強來進行這樣子好 謝謝部長那我要就叫這個國安局的簡副局長因為副局長過去您剛好是有這個相關的資通電軍的背景所以來詢問你這個我想也是您的專業因為我覺得揭露是最重要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
9526.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
9533.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
那麼目前本席為什麼特別一再的質詢的部分就是希望透過質詢能夠進行揭露但是對於國安局來講包括你看他特別的故意設計不論是真的或假的他就把他擺在這個所謂美國的鳳凰城那麼像這樣的部分我們在 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
9544.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
9569.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
跟其他比如美國或是其他相關的單位除了我們內部的所謂訊息相通之外那麼對外的部分我們有一些其他的合作嗎包括像這樣子以假美國或是真美國但是其實是在美國的地點來進行對於台灣國軍的滲透又或者是做資料的收集那這個部分國安局有什麼樣相對因應的作為嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
9571.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
9590.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
向委員報告一下我們目前針對於友方目前針對情報的合作是都有密切的接觸針對這些利用在國外的網站網址的部分我們也都做交換的情資即使在我們國內的部分我們也請相關的偵查單位去做調子去做相關的演習是有的 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
9590.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
9600.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
好那本席其實要求很簡單就是像這樣如果必要的時候要必要的揭露而揭露的對象不一定是大眾尤其是像剛剛部長也有特別提到了對於我們國軍弟兄他們在社群媒體上面的使用是有一個特別的規範但是一旦發現這種有疑義有問題的就請他們其實要有一些警惕 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
9612.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
9630.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
那麼這樣的揭露不一定要對一般的民眾但是我認為在軍中對於袍澤的部分其實是可以提供那包括連退役的當然這是退伏會的部分那麼這樣子就可以避免他們誤入其中的陷阱可以嗎是 我想這我們應該要努力的方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
9631.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
9653.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
謝謝好 謝謝林楚英委員各位請回我們現在休息5分鐘謝謝沈伯陽委員體諒然後另外部長我有傳給我們石文榮中將我們現在正在搜救我們的袍澤弟兄有粉磚竟然用木資要租船去幫忙搜救 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
9654.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
9676.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
那這個其實第一個我們搜救範圍怎麼可能讓民間包船去那邊幫忙搜救那這不只增加搜救的困擾這個集資可能還涉及相關法律的違法行為所以我有轉給我們那個石中將這個其實要請檢調相關單位去了解一下那個已經在公開募資 這個要注意一下好 我們現在休息五分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10062.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10072.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
來 我們準備開會好 我們休息結束接下來進行詢答的請各位就座我們接下來進行詢答的委員是沈博洋委員好 謝謝主席有請部長來 部長請 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10092.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10115.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
部長好 當然今天因為這一個F16的事情大家都應該非常的關心因為前面我覺得也是蠻多委員都已經問過相關的內容所以這個部分我可能就不再問現在對我們來講搜救應該還是最重要的事情還是不做過多的臆測等到這一個相對應的報告出來之後我們可能來日有時間的時候再來做一個詢問 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10116.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10141.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
所以這次我還是先問這次原本排的軍演的主題其中有幾個小地方就是說因為大概在12月29號下午的時候網路上就出現國防部長休假未歸這樣的假消息我看它流傳的速度非常快你看我左上角的這個截圖它短短的時間是大概12萬的觀看 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10143.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10169.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
那接下來就有大量的這個帳號全部都在講一樣的內容那這個對我來講當然是是很有疑問的一件事情那我認為在最後國防部出來澄清的方式是很妥當的就是有這樣的一個畫面說其實這個部長一直都在然後也是在跟大家討論這個軍演應該怎麼對抗所以我現在想要問的事情就是說理論上因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10170.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10194.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
不管是軍演還是未來我們會遇到的這些危難這些所謂的假消息所謂的這些謠言一定會跟這次軍演比起來大概是等比級數的增加所以我們一定是有相關的單位在負責這件事情我就不要問是哪一個單位或者說也不用請單位上來講但因為公布這張照片的時候已經是12月30的中午 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10195.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10219.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
那這一個呢是在12月29大概下午我記得一兩點的時候就開始油了也就是說它整整燒了24小時然後呢澄清才出現那這個對我來講會很麻煩是我後來大概重整了一下這個流量大概超過30萬到40萬支普這個謠言其實傳得非常非常的廣那我們有沒有什麼應該比較好的機制就是說我們能夠在更早的時間就發現 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10220.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10248.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
因為第一個要先發現就跟我們這個無人機的系統一樣假設我們今天在偵測的時候根本就偵測不到對方就算我們有干擾槍也沒有意義所以我們一定要先偵測到有這樣的一個謠言的散播然後它有一定的量然後我們在多短的時間之內要快速的回應因為在那個時候大家都很忙但是不管怎樣國防部一定會有一個要主責這些事情的人所以能不能夠更快速的回應這件事情呢接下來有沒有什麼更好的機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10249.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10272.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
跟委員報告 我想我們事後來檢討就是說因為在當時這個因為說由交通部長站帶這件事情就很離譜我們下面他有些留言說這個是假消息所以也許我們在評估這個危害程度的時候我們可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10272.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10296.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
沒有太以一個比較比較應該怎麼講就是說一個標準一個比較更就是說我們在評估這個危害程度的時候我們應該要不要失準我想我們事後來回應這件事情那所以我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10298.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10316.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
當然所以應該確實如您所指教的是說29號發生這樣的事情的時候我們應該要立即就就要回應那當然我們事後當然實際上這個在在在這個信息這個是一件事當然後來我們也在 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10317.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10336.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
臨時記者會我們有再次對外說明但是委員執教說我們能不能再快一點這件事情我覺得我們是可以來檢討的對 因為像以我們自己來講我第一時間看到的時候我一定會想要趕快做回應但我要做回應之前我一定要先參考官方的說法但是官方那時候其實真的大家都在忙 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10337.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10363.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
所以因為畢竟就是軍演嘛這件事情其實對國防部來講是馬上需要去應對你也不知道他有沒有可能油煙轉戰啊等等之類的所以呢有沒有特別的這樣的任務變質確實像我那一天我們都在忙這個軍演的事情事實上我自己都不知道有這樣的事所以我們這個戰戰單位或者是發言人確實還是要有一些快速的評估 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10363.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10390.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
委員好 報委員我是發言人這段跟委員報告一下錯假訊息回應確實是一個很嚴重的問題這裡面我們面對的也有一些挑戰比方說因為它現在錯假訊息海量很多我們在評估到底什麼樣的訊息要回覆什麼樣的訊息我不要回覆免得說它本身沒有太大的量我回了以後反倒把它的量突出來了所以我們在發現錯假訊息我們一定會先評估說它的影響大概什麼樣的一個狀態它的滲透狀態大概怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10392.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10419.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
我們的大眾對這個錯假訊息接受程度怎麼樣以部長休假這個訊息來說在29號當天晚上我們看到的時候其實它的第一個量不大第二個我們已經有些民眾在底下留言說這是假訊息所以我們大概那個時候還在觀察它的一個狀況那到30號我們發現30號清晨的時候我們發現它的量開始擴散的時候所以我們30號其實就開始採取一些措施然後配合記者會的部分也把這個訊息來去做一個說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10421.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10435.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
其實在判斷這些事情到底會燒還是不會燒它有幾個標準我還是要講第一個回應的內容其實是非常好的因為你不要去跟對方進入細節就直接一個照片大家自然就會引用說你們部長的照片就在這裡就在這邊坐鎮這個指揮這個回應的內容是完全沒問題的 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10438.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10464.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
那它到底因為一開始看起來量沒有大但你看後來到十幾萬 二十幾萬為什麼會這個樣子呢通常有兩件事情第一個是它的源頭就是有一些它是經常性的造謠的源頭所以那個源頭就算它一開始沒流量它有可能會被後續炒作第二個就是在轉發的那些帳號是不是常常在做這些事情的帳號其實這兩個標準一旦符合了就算一開始不燒可能六小時以後它就會燒那這時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10466.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10486.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
就是說先出來講講也不要講它細節因為就像剛剛提到的你講細節你再幫它擴散就一張照片而已一張照片簡簡單單的告訴大家我們現在在做什麼這其實就已經有那個效果所以我覺得當然每一次我們遇到這樣的狀況我們就是不斷不斷的精進所以這一次有做到好的地方但也有可能比較慢的部分反正我們就是不斷的往前精進 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10487.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10509.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
接下來就是這一個事情其實也非常的類似這一個事情就是他播出101的大樓的影像疑似他就說我這個無人機在監控這個在回應的時候其實也有幾個要注意的地方比如說像一開始假設很快速的回應這件事情說這個只不過是旁邊的一個監視器 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10510.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10532.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
他已經預料到你可能會這樣做了以後呢這個他們的戰法叫反射性控制他馬上再丟一個比較遠的照片雖然那個遠的照片看起來我看起來是合成的但是他就會讓你的第一次的這一個闢謠反而落入他的陷阱所以這一個事情要怎麼回應又是另外一門藝術這一個當然少更大為什麼因為這個新聞媒體第一時間還去報導他 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10534.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10554.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
那新聞媒體就是我記得是我們的平面的那個平面的媒體電子化的平面媒體它第一時間報導這個事情的時候那它必燒無疑嘛因為它一定會擴散出去這個傳統媒體的力量非常的強所以呢在這一個方面應該要怎麼做我覺得這也有時候要檢討的地方但是這個因為時間的關係這個我就不多說因為我剛剛前面大概已經講了一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10555.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10580.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
因為接下來我有看到就是說這個國安局的專報它這邊其實有特別提到就是說這一次這個中共在這一次12月的時候那個訊息有19000多則異常帳號799組根據我的認知這個看起來是有在往上提高的趨勢然後它也有提到裡面可能有這個所謂的駭客攻擊 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10581.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10603.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
這個我上次質詢的時候大概有問過這個我先跳過這就是我剛剛講的這個判斷準則判斷準則我們私下再討論這個沒問題我們也沒有必要把判斷準則講那麼清楚給中國聽但因為國安局的專報提到第一個大量賬號還有大量的這個網路的攻擊所以我在之前有講過就是因為美國戰爭部11月6號的時候他有推動一個網站司令部的改革 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10604.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10626.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
那網站steampecker就是為了要應對這些事情他不是只有在應對跟駭客有關的他也有應對跟這些所謂的錯假訊息有關的所以他的這個整體的因為連美國戰爭部都說這個因為他們的網站其實對我們來講其實已經非常先進了結果他們都還說還要再做更進一步的改革這個改革我覺得對台灣一定有一個我們有可能要學習的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10627.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10651.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
所以我在過去呢在針對尤其像我們的資通電啊等等之類的有提出一些建議不管是輔導他的這一些證照的這個預算要怎麼做啊雖然我們現在總預算一直沒有辦法審然後還包含呢就是他們的績效怎麼計算這件事情我之前有稍微提過都可以整合在裡面那更包含我剛剛在前面講的這些東西我覺得我們這些都可以再往前精進那因為時間的關係所以呢我就大概先到這邊那但之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10653.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10677.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
又有類似議題的時候呢或許我們可以再多做討論那謝謝部長 謝謝主席剛剛委員所指教的我們會列入我們台美交流的裡面重要的一環就我們中電軍跟他們的網站的謝謝部長各位請回好 接下來進行詢問的委員黃國昌委員黃國昌委員黃國昌委員不在鍾嘉斌委員鍾嘉斌委員鍾嘉斌委員不在接下來進行詢問的委員是王宏威委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10686.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10693.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
謝謝主席我請我們顧立雄部長還有我們空軍司令三部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10699.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10725.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
好 兩位好是 部長我先反映一下因為從1月1號開始我們國防部所有在我們各委員會的報告都出現被外界稱之為無字天書當然這個你們是以說要保密為由但是事實上我們都知道我們在立法院收到任何的機密文件事實上都會加封的我們的公文封都會一直加密 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10726.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10753.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
所以我覺得這個真的是多此一舉的形式主義因為像今天我們的國安局也有報告國安局也有很多機密也沒有任何一個部門是用這樣子都是555我覺得這個反而會變成淪為笑柄反而不好那另外呢就是我想還是要稍微回應一下因為我們認為就是說以正確的資料治理或者說保密作為每一份資料在製作的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10754.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10761.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
本來就應該要具體實質精準不然因為我的時間有限喔但是當你們連我不想跟你爭辯這些東西啦主席各位宣敬委員宣敬吳這不是很扯嗎很好笑嗎好我不想把我的時間講比較嚴肅一點的話題喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10773.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
10777.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
首先我們知道就是前兩天在花蓮外海的這個F16V這個坐機我們現在的飛官上位辛柏毅我們當然知道他還在搶救當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
10789.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
10817.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
但是過去大概十年其實幾乎每一年我們都看到我們優秀的工軍飛官在出現了這樣的一個飛機的一個事件那麼不管是這個勇營高校機幻象2000或者AT-3的教練機等等有一些我們很幸運他們生還但是有很多都殉職我們在這邊還是至上最高最高的敬意 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
10817.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
10841.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
那麼另外就是在這一次的事件裡面剛才很多委員都討論以及關心到我們相關的包含我們這一家其實已經積零將近30年的這個F16V它事實上是奉展專案但是奉展專案呢一言再言那甚至提到連防寒衣都沒有我想請問部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
10843.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
10861.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
那麼在這兩天我們看到有一些網路上一些側翼說這個防寒衣跟我們這個在野黨立法院沒有通過1.25兆以及國防預算有關係請問一下1.25兆裡面有購買防寒衣嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
10863.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
10881.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
跟委員報告 我想這個防安衣的這個部分是在114年就請軍購方式籌補就是應該是去年的預算去年的預算就編列對不對那12月底前有開始陸續去年12月底前陸續交貨應該在今年的3月可以交貨完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
10881.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
10896.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
好 這個我看到你之前有提到所以我們到現在為止我們F16的戰機飛行員沒有防寒衣跟我們1.25兆或明年的這個國防預算無關 是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
10898.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
10925.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
這個防寒衣的分擔沒有在這個特別預算裡面所以我覺得我們這邊一定要先正本清源一下就是我們所有的預算該買就要買 該給就要給而防寒衣的預算我們確實有給好給滿那請問一下我們去年要採購的是我所了解是要一千兩百多件嘛 是不是大概是一千三百多件一千三百多件 到現在為止交貨幾件 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
10927.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
10952.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
陸陸因為去年下訂了之後目前現在一件都沒有嗎沒有像我們慢速機的部分200套400多套已經交了200套那因為戰鬥機的部分他要比較符合量身訂製所以說這個部分陸陸續續在交貨所以我確定一下也就是我們去年所採購的這個戰機的防寒衣到目前為止交貨是零 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
10953.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
10968.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
沒有 像在五聯隊他也已經有部分的交貨因為他的型號的關係 所以說他有的型號已經先交貨有部分已經先交了好 那你三四月間要交貨的數量多少就是全部交完 三月底全部交完 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
10968.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
10984.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
不是你還剩多少嘛我今天要講的是我們購買F16V買了那麼久沒有交貨好那我們說這個是因為什麼俄烏戰爭啊美國的什麼delay等等之類的那你今天連防寒衣是不是要告訴我同樣的一個理由呢委員這個去年採購今年就交貨了去年年底就開始交貨了 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
10992.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11008.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
所以你覺得這交貨是正常的交貨正常的嗎如果交貨正常為什麼我們這一次在這個這個飛官我們的這個新博弈我們的飛官卻沒有防寒衣可以穿呢如果交貨正常為什麼他沒有防寒衣可以穿呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11009.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11034.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
這個我們歷任的司令也都非常的重視我們也做過很多的評估因為這個航班飛行衣主要是針對極地地區它會影響到飛行操作所以前面我們也評估過其他的飛行衣它會影響到操作所以說飛行員普遍的反應不好我們也就再尋商所以說這次也很幸運的能夠買到這一套大家都覺得還不錯可以使用又不太妨礙到飛行操作的一個航班飛行衣 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11035.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11055.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
我們主席站起來了我只是要講就是說我們今天的相關的預算不管是奉展專案已經給好給滿但是你就是沒有辦法如期完成到現在防篡系統還是沒有辦法安裝好然後防寒衣也是一樣然後用這個方式再來去批評說再也擋再擋預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11057.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11083.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
問題是之前的預算全部給好給滿你們沒有執行沒有到貨然後發生這樣的憾事是應該要去檢討的我剛剛講過去這麼多屆幾乎每一年都發生我希望我們國區弟兄在第一線上我們要給他的設備是充足的尤其我們的預算都已經編列好了但是卻沒有辦法執行這一次確實透露出這樣的很多的一個問題謝謝 謝謝各位請回 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11085.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11096.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
接下來進行訓導委員林倩琪委員林倩琪委員林倩琪委員不在接下來進行訓導委員蘇清泉蘇清泉蘇清泉委員不在接下來進行訓導委員馬文君委員謝謝主席麻煩請部長來 顧部長請 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11112.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11117.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
部長好部長本席也有接獲我們的官兵的一個陳情這個也是反映我們在國防部的餐廳用餐我們現在所有包括國軍國防部或國軍司令部高司幕僚單位我們在洗碗或者是像這個使用過的餐具它是怎麼清洗的 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11146.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11153.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
報委員 陸軍參謀長向您報告目前單位 簡單說就好了有些單位有設置洗碗機但是大部分的單位目前還是由邊組的 簡單來說啦就是高屍單位 高屍幕僚單位 國防部其實我們都是用自動洗碗機可是我們在基層我們都還是用人工去洗滌可是因為大家都不是各自的現在有很多他也不認真洗有些在下次使用的時候他都還是有的 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11174.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11202.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
甚至拿起來他還可以用衛生紙擦出一層黑垢這是非常嚴重的問題因為現在大家也非常重視食安我們不管居住不管在營區的配置或者像我們在這用餐的環境我們希望不是只有高市單位有這些改善我們編了很多很多的預算所以這個也不是很貴如果我們的高層都可以用我們希望可以普及到我們所有的基層單位這個部分可不可以做到 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11204.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11228.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
我們會來檢討努力好這個部分因為我想這個是現代化的一個作為啦別人有的很認真洗有的不認真那你現在這樣可能也會造成一些食安的疑慮大家也覺得我們我們的國軍其實是不太進步的啦所以乾淨衛生的用場環境我想這是最基本的條件這個部分請我們國防部盡速改善好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11229.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11234.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
那另外今天大家也非常關切的就是我們F16這個出事的這個問題那我想要請教的因為我們不希望在事故發生以後大家拿這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11246.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11259.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
來作為我們的預算是不是要審查的一個條件因為我們這一次總預算沒有審查還沒有還沒有付為很重要的因素我想大家都非常清楚第一個就是我們軍人的 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11261.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11275.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
志願役加薪這個沒有編列進去第二個當然就是警消的這個所得替代率我們希望依法已經通過的可以盡速把它編列我們看到每一次的事故不管是潛艦上一次在海上發生的事故也責損了很多位我們的國軍官兵我們在這一次F16 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11283.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11288.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
的這樣子的一個優秀的軍官然後我們之前在永英號更之前還有F51每一次每一次發生事件以後都說要檢討可是我們每次檢討很多的東西太樣其實是一樣的這跟預算已經沒有關係因為你們錢花了裝備也買了可是你們並沒有確切的改善而且甚至都沒有到貨這個拿來跟現在總預算還沒有過這是無法類比而且是非常可惡的 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11313.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11325.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
所以就這個部分 我想要請教 因為剛剛也有提到因為F16AB這個案子 這個升息案很重要的 我們其實從101年開始 建案到現在101年 我們本來它的期程是101到112這過程當中修了兩次的期程 把它延到117年 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11337.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11340.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
我們的預算也從1100億增加到1400多億這些我們都沒有去做預算的相關的刪減可是我們看到現在陸續還在發生這樣的事情而且像F16當時美方也承諾要透過軍售的合作機制要引進技術跟資源 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11360.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11364.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
包括建立F16維修中心推動國內維修的能量縮短零件交期提升妥善率等等我們為了要達到這樣的目標我們甚至也用掉了我們所有的公和點數除了我們編了這麼高額的預算以外我們也用掉我們的公和點數可是我們看到這一次發生的問題除了防寒衣除了我們在任務電腦 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11387.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11401.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
或者像防撞地系統這些都還沒有安裝甚至發生錯誤或者發生狀況的情況之下我們到底有了什麼那時候還特別用了一個典禮 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11403.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11419.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
在蔡總統的時候我們還說我們要成立亞太維修中心後來亞太拿掉了我們要成立維修中心因為我們除了原來F16AB還有141架現在可能140架可能又要再降低 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11420.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11430.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
還有新買的66架我們可能是世界上最多F16機型的國家可是我們到現在我們反觀韓國他都已經可以製造了我們現在連維修看到這一次包括他的任務電腦不斷出狀況的情況之下顯然我們對這些維修的能力都還沒有做到已經十幾年了 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11444.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11445.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
我們風風光光的拍照成立然後現在這些問題到底在哪裡因為剛剛提到的防撞地系統或什麼其他 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11455.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11479.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
參謀長在這裡我想你非常清楚我們所有的像這樣的一個飛機尤其任務電腦其實是非常重要的它像這一型飛機它當初設計的時候就是不平衡希望讓它更加靈活所以如果沒有飛控電腦飛機就很容易轉圈圈像它飛行員在操作的時候它就會如果它有點 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11480.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11481.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
也類似防撞系統吧如果這個一旦任務電腦他判斷飛行員的操作他就會影響所有的飛機安全比如說在內的話內在的部分他可能會 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11496.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11505.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
就是它的操作極限在外在比如說撞山或撞地這些非控電腦其實它都可以去做判斷如果發現內外發生這樣的問題的時候它甚至可以把它接手操作對不對可是我們一直發現它不斷的出問題我們為什麼到現在沒有辦法解決這個問題是美方或是漢翔 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11520.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11536.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
或者什麼其他問題跟委員報告自動防撞地系統Auto G-Case這個它是我們F-16 Block兩棟它是類比式的飛控系統那剛剛也講了美軍現在有在用的是就是數位的飛超系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11536.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11560.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
我們的Block兩棟是類比式所以說它沒辦法採用美軍這個系統也是因為我們提出來美軍才開始研發我們現在才跟美軍是同步把類比式的飛機安裝Auto G-Case它的訊號轉換成數位才能使用Auto G-Case美國國民兵的Block兩棟兩武跟三棟跟我們是同步正在做 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11561.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11589.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
我們從108年也是感謝大院給我們的預算之後我們才納到鳳展的專案的工項裡面那做了這麼久109年跟美方提出來美方也同步在做研發到現在美軍的類比式跟我們一樣類比式飛超的飛機一架都還沒有上機所以說外界可能是誤會了所有的飛機不是都是類比式的飛機數位的飛機可以安裝我們的Block 拐動很快回來它就有 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11590.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11595.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
安裝這個摩托機 參謀長你講到重點我們新的它可能就是已經有具備這樣子的一個裝置可是問題是我們數量最多的原來F16AB升級的這些飛機機型它佔了我們飛機數量的大部分那如果像發生這樣的狀況因為它還是類比式它沒有辦法去做這樣子的調整或者沒有辦法有很好很安全的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11615.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11625.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
飛控電腦裝置的時候這對我們所有的飛官其實都是拿命在飛行或者在訓練甚至或者在就是作戰的這個任務所以這個對我們來說因為我們不要每次都講得非常好 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11633.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11636.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
我們有很多的口號我們拿了很多的預算可是當我們看到所有的結果的時候並不是這樣所以就這個部分我們還是希望大家可以很認真的務實的去釐清他到底發生原因是什麼我們到現在這一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11648.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11652.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
又就發生這個最近的事件上一次永英號的結果都還沒有給國人一個清楚的一個答案所以就這個部分我們希望不要發生事情的時候就拿總預算來說嘴我們希望你是一件一件的把它做好 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11667.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11693.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
我們的預算不斷的增加這個預算其實早就已經花了跟現在發生的問題跟總預算是沒有關係的所以我們希望因為所有的同袍我相信發生這樣的事情尤其參謀長你對於自己這樣子發生這樣的事情我們相信大家都不希望可是可以怎麼樣解決這個才是我們要的我們所有的預算該花的我們同意花你今天如果不明不白不清不楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11695.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11700.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
丟個幾張然後就跟我們說要多少錢你憑什麼要大家要花那麼多錢你以前花的錢到現在都還沒有到位到現在都還沒有改善到現在都還沒有真的符合我們的需求那這樣都還沒有完成的情況之下為什麼你可以再增加而且還不斷的增加而且數額非常高這個部分我們請國防部還有我們所有各軍大家可以共同努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
11721.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
11730.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
好 謝謝 請馬文君委員請回 各位請回接下來進行訓導委員 葉元之委員葉元之委員 葉元之委員不在 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
11731.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
11758.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
羅廷維委員 羅廷維委員羅廷維委員不在已登記諮詢委員初步在場外均已發言完畢報告及詢答結束本日會議有林益君委員提出書面諮詢請列入記錄並刊登公報那本期這邊補充提醒國防部有關防寒衣的部分在會後請完整說明一下因為剛才聽起來是2025年 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
11761.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
11785.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
2024年編2025年的預算就本席印象所及2025年的預算其實也一直審到2025年的1月底那通過之後還有一些要核算跟相關財務法的關係所以一直到3月份預算都還沒抵定所以你們在2025年發包的時候是什麼時候其實因為預算審查的延宕 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
11787.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
11814.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
年度預算審查的延宕你們執行發包作業應該應該不會太早應該在3月份以後那你們在12月底開始就開始交付從慢速機不用量身訂住的開始交付防寒衣那2026年3月以前會全數交貨完畢因為昨天你們記者會我們可以體諒因為弟兄在外面那個急切感他還是講成明年他以為還在2025講成明年所以這個時間序列 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
11816.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
11843.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
以及2025年的預算應該在2024年通過結果一直延宕到2025年才審查完略你們才進行相關的採購作業然後到年底就開始交貨那外界可以公平這到底是慢還是快我覺得這時間序列可以把事情真相呈現出來至於以前為什麼不買我們也不怪以前的政府或以前任何人因為防寒衣原來在極地狀況在穿的那個坐在 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
11844.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
11866.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
尤其那個很緊實的那個Cabot裡面其實不是很好操作所以有一些背景說明清楚我認為在面對生死攸關的事物的時候國軍的將領沒有人會把弟兄袍責的安全當作另外一回事 不會 這個我相信是不會所以請說明清楚那昨天有口誤的我們不苛責 但把它更正就好好 那這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
11869.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
11882.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
今天尋答委員有書面或口頭尋答未及答覆的部分或要求補充資料者請相關機關以書面與兩週內答覆那委員有指定期限者從期所定本日會議到此結束大家辛苦了我們散會 |