| IVOD_ID |
17157 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17157 |
| 日期 |
2025-12-29 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-15-19 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期內政委員會第19次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
19 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
15 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
內政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期內政委員會第19次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-12-29T08:31:20+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-12-29T12:22:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
03:50:40 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/eeffa975d6a1e3ea48d6553891abf5a91fc48310b441d33d3fa04411479d882a557e63f275fdb81a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-12-29T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第19次全體委員會議（事由：繼續審查「住宅法」修正草案等44案，詳見議事日程。【12月29日及31日兩天一次會】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:31:20 - 12:22:00 |
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2132.216 |
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請主任秘書報告出席人數報告委員會出席委員8人已足法定人數現在開會進行報告事項請宣讀上次會議事錄立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第18次全體委員會議事錄時間114年12月24日星期三上午9時11分至12時5分地點紅樓202會議室出席委員張宏祿委員等14人列席委員林德普委員等11人 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
2132.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
2154.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
列席官員內政部部長劉世芳暨相關人員原住民族委員會公共建設處副處長周錫衛法務部檢察官李子齊財政部負稅署副署長倪麗欣暨相關人員教育部高等教育司專門委員吳志偉衛生福利部社會救助及社公司檢任視察林春燕暨相關人員國家住宅及都市更新中心租賃一組組長高益欣 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
2155.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
2173.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
主席黃昭紀委員建斌報告事項宣讀上次會議事錄決定確定討論事項繼續審查住宅法修正草案等40案審查住宅法修正草案等3案委員黃潔說明提案要旨決議討論事項所列議案均另定12月29日星期一繼續審查 宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
2177.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
2196.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
請問各位委員上次會議意思有無錯誤或遺漏無錯誤意思錄確定現在繼續進行討論事項請宣讀繼續審查住宅法修正草案計43案審查委員張家俊等16人擬具住宅法第4條條文修正草案案宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
2199.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
2228.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
現在介紹在場的委員及列席的官員首先介紹我們的王美惠召委張鴻祿委員黃婕委員朱巧慧委員李柏毅委員張志倫委員徐宇貞委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
2230.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
2255.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
高金素梅委員麥玉珍委員還有鄭天才委員接下來介紹我們到場的官員有內政部政務次長董建宏地政司林家政司長國土管理署吳行修署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
2258.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
2282.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
民族民族委員會公共建設處周錫衛副處長財政部李慶華政務次長法務部謝志明參事教育部高等教育師吳志偉專門委員衛生福利部社會救助及社公司林春彥檢證視察 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
2285.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
2305.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
社會及家庭署莊金珠代理組長那包括委員會我們現在宣讀新增提案討論事項第44案之條文附帶決議三請一併宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
2309.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
2338.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
第四條委員張家俊等十六人提案第一項百分之四十修正為百分之五十第二項第三款修正為育有未成年子女其餘同現行條文附帶決議三為鼓勵房東願意將閒置空屋釋出內政部應與財政部定期視租屋市場行情滾動檢討免稅額度以提升公益出租人出租房屋之誘因提案人委員徐玉珍等宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2346.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2348.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
那我們現在進行保留條文協商 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2504.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2518.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
跟委員會說明一下今天我們繼續審查住宅法部分修正條文草案出了12月24號我們審查事實上案這一次本次有併案審查由張家俊委員等16年一居的這個住宅法第四條條文的修正草案總共有44案 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2519.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2537.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
那前項的44案各相關的修正條文查案共計提案修正30條那今兩次審查結果就有20條是維持現行的條文不予審議那不予徵訂那現行那維持現行的條文不予修正條文總共有17條各自在參閱存回資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2539.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2559.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
那本 本次我們要去審查的十個條例就是第四條然後增訂的第四條之一 第十條 第十八條增訂第十九條之一 增訂二十一條之一 第二十三條第四十七條 第五十二條 還有增訂的五十七條之一好 這就是我們上禮拜 我們討論完 先保留的存在十條我們今天就存在十條開始來討論了OK |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2567.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2584.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
第4條的部分我們現在在看第4條上個禮拜我們第4條保留的部分有沒有什麼其他意見保留的部分就是內政部這邊主要是在我們的保留比例的部分的意見保留的部分 其他會員看看有什麼意見黃姐會員 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2588.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2607.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
因為這條上禮拜其實大家都表達意見那我是上禮拜建議也是國土署應該要告訴我們一個你們比較期望可以做到的條文文字那是不是你們有建議的包括這幾條保留的你們建議的文字是不是可以先給我們參考因為目前我們手上也還沒有看到這樣比較好討論那其他委員有意見不然我們請內政部這邊來說明一下 賴建博 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2621.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2643.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
好 報告各位委員因為其實我們上次也有大概提到就是說也考量城鄉的差距所以這一個我們現在因為中央釋出的這個部分都是在都會區的京華區所以大致上20才做得到但是我們考慮到城鄉差距尤其到中南部這樣的比例可能對某些地方政府來講分配上反而會造成另外一個壓力所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2644.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2667.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
我們還是建議就是說在第四條的部分是建議是說修正為提供至少10%比例出租與婚育家庭那婚育家庭的這個定義還是會在裡面會去做一個定義這樣的意思但是原來這一個40到50的40%要提升的部分還建議就是還是不還是就不再修訂 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2676.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2677.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
對 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2682.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2705.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
雖然部裡面是這樣說我是可以理解但既然宣傳都做20%而且我覺得你一個政策要推動你本來就要有一定的強度它才會有效果所以我是覺得在文字上的修正方向應該是以20%為目標20%但是你有一定的段數也就是說因為你現在內政部執行困難的地方是在於相對不是都會地方的設宅有沒有可能會因為這樣而空置 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2707.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2730.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
就是說因為我設定了一個20%一定要給婚姻的人然後以至於這20%到最後是租不出去的因為可能那邊都只有單身的人或什麼的那如果是這樣的話你應該是寫說我是20%但是如果在經過比如一輪的申請或怎麼樣之後他沒有辦法這個全部釋出那我轉給一般戶嘛你應該是這樣這樣是不是兩頭都可以兼顧對不對這個我們是不是討論一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2733.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2751.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
對 不過就是跟委員這邊說明因為當然20%是我們的理想就像那天有講到我們去到了台東或者是到金門 馬祖那個地方大概20%就是一個執行上的困難但是你一旦放到了法條它就變成是必須要去執行這樣可能會對地方政府造成兩輪的困難就是說 經常會有兩輪的困難 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2754.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2774.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
所以我是建議是不是在說明或是用附帶決議的部分還是請我們把20%當作一個主要的目標但是法條上維持10%之死這樣的話其實讓在行政單位尤其是地方政府來講會比較有彈性會比較有彈性就是地方政府會斟酌他生死的狀況來做一個處理是不是用這樣的方式認證部說明這李副委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2782.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2807.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
我綜合一下 其實大家都希望婚姻宅的比例真的是要高一點但如果說真的入法有入法至少10%那目標20%用附帶決議的方式來寫進去我覺得會比較妥適一點不會造成說你真的訂到20%有一些城鄉它是沒有辦法達到的這個法律反而奇怪 謝謝先給徐議政委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2811.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2823.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
我想請教一下那個署長因為當時你們的宣傳是用20%那現在希望是10%是怕沒有辦法達到那我想知道說當時宣傳訂定20%的理由是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2825.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2848.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
說明一下 因為報告 因為當時我們現在我想說 因為我們都是同樣的您在講完了以後 您再一併回答好了我想這個 我們今天這等於是第二次 第二輪的審查那其實剛剛這個題目在上一次的審查的一開始幾乎是一模一樣的事情那所以我們現在算是一個 再倒帶一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2848.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2870.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
那我也重複一下我也是支持婚育仔比例要提高但經過上次一輪的討論之後我可以接受目前現在部內提出的文字建議版本也就是用至少10那我接受的理由是一我也認為要加一個附帶決議把不分黨派共同的意志 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2871.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2898.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
希望那要能夠再更明確的用文字化表列出來同時有機會可以糟糕社會也給內政部一個這個前進的壓力和方向所以我也認為接受現在不滿的願不滿建議的文字加附帶決議這個我可以接受那可以接受理由就是因為上一次內政部國土署這邊也有說所謂政策的20% |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2900.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2918.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
其實在現在我們剛剛託到的這個接受的版本當中就等於是至少10%再加上因為一般戶裡面它也等於是抽籤抽完了以後所以加起來的總總值是有超過20%的甚至是有更高的比例的基於現在這樣的事實 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2919.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2931.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
以及未來執行上的難易程度所以我們才會接受剛剛說的版本那以上我再次表達我的立場那也希望等一下大家有機會就是朝這樣做 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2934.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2954.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
吳啟明委員我的看法跟石橋會管理博弈大致都相同增加了10%還有一個10%因為有渡位區跟我們的鄉村的比例那應該是這樣比較有彈性內政部也比較好處理這本席的看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2955.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2978.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
謝謝吳齊穆委員那這邊那我也是認為說可以用附帶決議的方式因為這個20%的目標當然還是針對有需要的地區啦就是一些精華都會集中區那我覺得這個文字上面用附帶決議是可以把這個目標放進去的 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2978.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
3003.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
那另外一個部分是我們其實很多委員都有在就有提到那個身心障礙者未成年身心障礙家屬者這個好像我看你們的修正版本並沒有放進去那這部分可不可以喔喔是喔喔好不好意思那好那這個韓式的內容是會再讓我們知道嗎那還是說建議的文字可不可以先給我們對啊好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
3006.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
3034.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
好 謝謝 我們請張志文委員發言好 謝謝趙偉 各位委員各位官員大家早安那因為我覺得這個婚育宅的部分大家都非常支持那剛剛內政部國土部這邊已經提出來說這個覺得20%稍微高一點那當然現在這個國土部署的建議是要說是至少10%那如果是這樣子的話是不是可以照我們上次討論的部分如果用一個區間 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
3036.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
3050.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
10到20%那這樣子的話就可以把城鄉之間的差距統統包含進來那今天討論的速度可能是不是也會稍微快一點好不好 以上謝謝好 謝謝鄭志文委員來 召委召委 在這裡我要跟署長說的就是說署長在這幾天的時候你不是要去溝通有問題在這裡的條款 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
3065.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
3068.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
在這方面 我覺得分析時 當然如果大多數可能會報告如果南部 說實在的 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
3079.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
3085.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
有嘛 現在你們擔心的就是說如果體衛生規定20%下去的時候你就一定要做到20%啦是附帶決議裡面的事情說我們的努力要達到20%才有像你們以前所說的政策啦當然我覺得每一代都希望說 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
3103.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
3130.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
你們會看到口號出來其實有的用啦不是要看口號的要看發洩的這樣就沒有讓年輕人跟這裡的年輩有身心障礙都可以使用到這裡的住宅法我們修改才有意義啦不然你們修修的覺得在南部的我覺得不需要限制的時候要做什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
3133.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
3139.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
後來很多問題發生了希望我們署長正式去考慮一下好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
3149.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
3166.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
各位我是覺得第四條其實大家都有這個共識只是說文字怎麼寫大家還是我個人我會覺得說如果以現在我們手上拿的內政部修正動議 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
3168.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
3188.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
我們如果把它那邊至少提供40%的這一個部分呢我們把它提高提高50%或是55%等等的然後把婚育家庭就包含在這裡面了你不要婚育家庭又另外10% |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
3191.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
3213.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
我是說把它內刮在裡面然後文字來修正這樣子可以解決我們要的目標然後各縣市也有彈性可以去處理有的比較偏鄉的可能就不需要這麼多不然你內政部現在是擔心有的偏鄉你的婚育宅會到時候租不出去沒有那麼多人 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
3215.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
3227.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
我的建議是這樣大家就文字跟那個比例大家來我們的及時廣義一下這樣就可以解決大家要的目標然後各縣市也有彈性我覺得這樣子是會比較好 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
3235.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
3259.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
那個我補充一下那個在你們送出來這第四條的修正條文的第三項育有未成年子女第三款這個未有育成未成年子女兩人以上這個部分是這一次修改的沒文一台車沒修改嘛那這個問題你們是不是也來一起來說明一下那原條文原條文這部文你都沒修改就對了你沒要修改這條那是原條文原條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
3268.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
3285.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
跟各位委員報告就是我們設宅基本上在住宅法裡面明定設宅是希望針對所有的住宅使用者所以如果我們要特別把某些單項把它列出來的時候我們其實要去考慮各地方在執行上面的困境 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
3286.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
3302.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
那比方說很多偏鄉地區或者是比方說東部或者是馬祖金門的縣市他們比較期待的是說我們在蓋社宅的時候是提供給年輕的公務同仁所以如果我們直接把比例定明白就說比方說婚育宅20% |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
3303.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
3331.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
那他們就會面臨一個困境就是說比較年輕的公務同仁他就很難住進去這些社宅這個是我們目前在執行上最大的壓力也就是說我們的社宅在興建的時候其實除了我們要保障弱勢者之外我們其實還要保障的是真正有工作需求的年輕人那這是我們當初社宅的目的那這些工作的年輕人特別是這幾年那個偏鄉地區他的工作就是說年輕公務同仁願意投入 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
3333.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
3351.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
尤其是年輕老師願意投入的比例也都在下降所以提供他們一個好的穩定的居住空間其實是一個很高的誘因這也是為什麼馬祖跟金門政府金門縣政府他們很支持我們蓋社宅因為這個對他們來講就是誘因那我們在屏東嘉義這些地方我們也發現就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
3352.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
3375.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
這些偏鄉地區的老師如果可以給他們一定的社宅比方說包租單位或其他的一些社宅他們其實就願意投入進去的比例也會拉高所以我們這邊是懇請委員可以考量一下就是說我們那個比例不要寫得太高或太實這樣子我們讓各縣市政府它在執行上有一定的彈性 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
3376.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
3398.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
因為大台北地區還包括桃園市其實的確他的年輕人對於整個的婚姻宅的需求是很高的這我們不否認那我們把那個彈性比例拉高其實也可以讓婚姻宅就不會只是限制在10% 20%而是如果他有必要他也可以調到30%因為這是授權地方政府所以至少10%那他在那個比例裡面去調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
3399.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
3407.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
這樣子會讓這個各縣市政府它在執行上會比較有一些彈性這部分也跟各位委員做報告那署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
3411.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
3434.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
簡單說明就是說其實到了大概越往南部或是越往離島大概婚姻家庭的比例會越低而且會低比較多這是第一個如果把它併進去的話併到原來的族群其實它會被其他就會稀釋掉它反而會更吃虧即使你提高到最後是提高到其他的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
3435.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3457.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
所以當時會建議把他拉出來也是因為基於要照顧然後第二個就是說讓他所以至少10%就是給地方一個彈性他在調查過程當中可以可以大概去彈性處理依照當地的狀況去彈性處理所以我才會還是會建議說希望照我們內政部這個版本可能會比較好但是附帶決議我想20% |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3458.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3475.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
我們都有在努力因為因為像現在20%的話像現在20%台北台北新北都是超過20%那你如果到中南部我相信10%的話他們是會超過10%他們是一定會超過10%但是你如果把他寫20%他還真的不一定 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3476.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3492.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
那這樣的話有時候會給地方政府他還要處理第二輪這樣的話反而會更辛苦一點會比較辛苦所以我才會建議說考慮通盤性的話還是10%比較有彈性對地方政府也比較有彈性不要造成相互間太大的壓力 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3494.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3494.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
黃教委 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3517.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3537.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
好 謝謝召委 次長 署長 各位委員我是提案委員之一那這個第四條我本來比較激進一點我提的是50%為有未滿12歲的家庭因為為什麼要講這件事情我還是要強調剛剛大家有個共識說因為本來這個所謂的婚育宅的概念衛生聯盟你本來把它放在弱勢的保障裡面嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3538.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3565.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
那我們今天把它拉出來就是今天為什麼要拉出來目的當初也講了最主要是要解決現在我們希望能夠解決所謂少子化的問題因為現在就是買得起房子可能養不起孩子養了孩子就買不起房子大概現在的社會有這個狀況所以我們才去提說把這個婚育宅的概念把它拉出來另外去算那今天我還是要講你們內政部已經強調說有婚育宅那如果在社宅的整個法律裡面你們只保障10%我覺得這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3568.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3592.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
至少對啊那如果是至少百分之十我說為什麼不能提供到我希望說提供到至少百分之二十如果你們今天要有人提百分之二十那個是保障這是一個門檻而已嘛就是對於很競爭的地方我提供百分之二十但是當然如果你說有些地方比如說你說你剛剛提到說蘇南提到說偏鄉或者是可能越往一些其他城市沒有這麼多婚姻人口的時候那當然這個名額他當然還是會釋出啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3593.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3622.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
但我今天講的是說我想要保障說那至少在都會區或房價比較高的地方有足夠的婚姻宅的保障讓這些來這邊工作的人他才有機會在這邊安身立命那如果你只有我還是覺得百分之十的太少了啦如果只有百分之十的話其實我反而覺得有點違背你們當初這個婚姻宅的本意所以我覺得至少還是要我不要堅持百分之五十啦但是百分之二十應該還可以吧以上 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3624.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3643.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
那個本席這邊來補充就是我剛才提到那個第二項第三款那個未成年子女兩人以上這部分其實有一些委員也有意見就是說是不是要按兩個一雙是不是要將這兩人以上這個字眼來刪除這個部分是不是那個書裡面 部裡面這邊當時會定這個兩個一雙的觀點說明一下因為它是當時是被認定是在屬於比較經濟或社會弱勢 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3651.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3671.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
所以才是育兒衛生宅那你今天如果是把它拿掉的話它就是標準的婚姻宅所以但是我們現在是建議把婚姻宅拉出來把它拉出來是這個概念但是你育兒衛生宅兩年以上其實相對來講在婚姻宅裡面它算是罕見比較少見的 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3672.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3690.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
所以當時我們再把它區隔開來啦就給他相對給育有衛生的兩人以上的話那他其實就是再更對他來講更優待一點他就變成三支籤的概念好 這樣說明了解所以他是對他更好啦徐卿委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3694.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3716.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
因為你這個是寫說前向經濟或社會弱勢者身分然後當然講家庭總收入怎麼樣符合下列規定之一所以本席有提案就是說你第三個育有未成年子女二人以上你就是要兩人以上那我們是希望只要育有未成年子女一人以上就是說你為什麼要兩人以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3724.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3749.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
對啊 因為兩人以上其實就是在比例上他是最低的啦他是比例是最低所以他是把他認定他是在弱勢家庭裡面他是弱勢家庭裡面那但是婚禦宅對 但是他同時放到婚禦家庭他也可以放到 他也可以對 他在講他就多一支籤他又多了一個機會出來他以後就有三支籤 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3752.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3759.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
他是弱勢一支籤對一般的也有一支婚禦仔也有一支這個也有一支他就變三支籤對對對 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3767.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3791.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
我再問一下我剛講的意思就是說20%的數字保留因為我們要有夠強的鼓勵性質嘛你這個修法才有意義嘛但是申請時婚姻家庭數量未達保留比率者就是沒有到20%報名的沒有到20%你就釋出嘛這樣不就好了嗎對不對如果這是OK的我們就這樣好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3794.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3815.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
對啊你就因為你剛剛講比如說你舉連江也好台東也好那一個就是明顯登記的就沒有到20%嘛然後你就會出現困擾嘛那登記時如果申請時登記時沒有到20%你就釋出啊這樣就好啦這樣我是不是在都會區我都可以碰到20%的門檻然後其他的地方沒有的我也可以釋出這樣是不是OK你都OK那就這樣子好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3820.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3847.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
這就是我們在講就是實務你在作業上的時候你會變成要重複公告你就變成要重複公告所以因為我們每辦一次就要對外公告一次對所以我才會說這樣子他會一直在重複公告對而且變成說對他變成在重複公告因為你不到的時候我就得重新公告所以你變成說對地方政府來講他變成在重複在做這件事 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3851.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3879.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
第二個喔第二個就變成說你釋出這個名額你要歸到哪一邊要歸 歸到一般戶吧當然是歸到一般戶啊所以我才會跟 對啊不一定會全部的一般戶所以我才會說我都會建議是說因為我們真的在作業的時候底下各自都有一個作業辦法先生也會有一個作業辦法我們本來是說有一個彈性讓地方在作業辦法的時候比較好調整啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3880.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3906.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
讓他比較好調整第二個對他們來講本來就是多一支籤的概念對婚姻家園本來就是多一支籤的概念那我是建議就是說你保留這樣讓他在地方作業的時候自動就會讓他有兩支籤而不是變成你還要再重複公告因為重複公告就會像剛剛所講民眾會覺得你沒事為什麼要尤其已經幾乎保障名額你又要再辦一次重新公告我又要再等所以我才會說實務作業上是這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3910.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3913.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
這個部分我還是要講一下一個大原則就是說講現實面啦就是因為都會去房價比較高嘛所以才有這個問題嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3932.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3951.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
那其他如果房價沒這麼高的地區可能一般戶不管婚姻宅或是弱勢或是一般戶他可能市面上租的房子也都還合理但今天就是因為都會區很難處理這個房價問題所以我才想說這個婚姻宅這個婚姻宅這個概念的部分把它保障的比例拉到這層次那就像剛剛劉雪婷所說如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3953.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3972.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
你第一次就是你你在其他地方如果沒有達到20%那當然是直接釋出那當然釋出之後要歸在哪一個問題要歸在哪一個項目那個我覺得大家可以在後續細節你們地方政府可以來決定但是我覺得在都會區的部分我覺得現在最麻煩就是房價太高了所以我們今天才有這個問題為什麼提這條就是為保障為解決這個問題因為實務上現在你把那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3976.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3991.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
所謂未成年子女兩人你現在現行條例現行條例是放在百分之四十裡面去保障但實際上就還是很多人根本有小朋友的雖然又有兩個他也沒辦法抽到所以才有這個現實才有這個問題所以我們才希望說把他第一個把他拉出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3992.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
4017.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
感謝內政部你把他拉出來了但拉出來之後到底多少比例合理我當然我本來很激進但我是大家可以討論只是說那10%真的太少了吧我跟委員報告不好意思我跟委員報告就是說我們現在我們明定40%的弱勢其實大概重簽率弱勢重簽率已經超過40%了大概達到46%甚至接近50% |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
4019.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
4033.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
我們再提供10%到20%的青年住宅等於我們就將近70%的房子70%的社宅是由這一些特定戶拿走你真正要照顧的那些年輕人只剩下30%這個壓力就會很大 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
4037.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
4054.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
沒有你40%但是他的弱勢戶都會超過40%將近50然後你在明定20的那個加起來就是將近70了你就剩下因為我們現行的實際上在執行的狀況就是40%的弱勢戶我們已經有將近46%的弱勢戶在實際上在那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
4065.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
4081.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
我想我們最主要是要照顧全體的社會住宅的需求者社會住宅需求者包括年輕人包括弱勢者這些都是我們要照顧的我們把比例拉高了一般戶的狀況就是壓縮的很低 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
4105.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
4113.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
那個那個不然這樣啦齁 咱 咱 咱進這地方也沒共識 咱先保留啦我們先保留 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
4123.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
4144.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
我們現在這個部分 柏宇 我們先保留啦 我們先學一下啦下一條 我們繼續往前進啦 我們這個先保留等一下 我們討論之後再來講這條 我們先開始下一個那個啦 增訂四條之一 那個立法委員的那個也是保留 你也保留 保留講一下 保留講一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
4148.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
4160.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
這條是希望讓地方政府更有空間更有彈性的去我講的是第4條之一是希望讓地方政府更有空間的去處理一些他想要做的這些計畫比如說 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
4162.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
4183.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
以左營連池塘為例旁邊的這些杯仔頭農場或者是以中油宿舍為例讓都市的發展更順利而設的那如果內政部國土署這邊認為說還有其他的方式那我會找地方政府 包括高雄市政府再跟國土署這邊做溝通所以我的第四之一條我先做保留 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
4192.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
4220.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
那也希望這一條希望這一條 希望四至一條可以繼續保留在委員會讓地方政府跟國土署這邊進一步繼續的來溝通 謝謝好 我補充一下不用回應啦繼續留在委員會那我讓市政府我讓地方政府跟國土署這邊來繼續溝通謝謝繼續溝通啦 署這邊的意見也是一樣不用回應啦不用回應啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
4223.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
4244.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
因為上次講完到現在還沒有做進一步的溝通所以我們希望保留下來然後讓地方政府跟國土署這邊來繼續做一個溝通 謝謝好 OK 那這個部分我們就所以這邊沒有還沒有你講一下 好啦不講事之一我是講第四條 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
4250.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
4264.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
剛剛大家說要保留我們大家花了很多時間了你到現在還是沒條保留我覺得大家其實都有共識都有什麼的 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
4265.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
4283.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
那我具體的建議一下如果第四條我們這個婚姻宅如果內政部他們有疑慮說偏鄉或什麼的那我們如果給他明訂於直轄市至少20%比例出租於婚姻家庭什麼我不知道這邊可不可以考慮大家想一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
4286.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
4312.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
謝謝那個張陸委員補充第四條部分這個部分我們待會我們走完之後再繼續討論那我們現在四之一的部分要保留保一委 保留四之一保留應該都處理我再講清楚一點四之一跟我們這次談的比例都無關那希望我們這次談的這些比例講完之後這一條還是保留在這裡讓地方政府跟國土署這邊進一步做一個溝通OK 好 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
4314.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
4324.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
主席 我剛剛的問題讓他回答一下不然我跟你講你到最後你所有的條文你今天不是啦 就還沒走下去讓他先回答一下嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
4326.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
4336.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
不然你今天我跟你講我們可以預見你就會每條保留我們花了那麼多時間在幹什麼讓他說一下那個 吳志昌我給你回應一下因為我們本來本來是像像他講的這樣其實我們是放在附帶決議也就是說20%相對20%是一個原則是一個原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
4352.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
4381.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
那並視各直轄縣市政府的需求彈性調整本來是想是寫這樣後來覺得這樣比較容易執行因為如果真實要把二十八方我是建議它是一個原則性就好了它不是一個唯一性因為即使在直轄市裡面也有一些比較偏僻的地方人口數不多的比如說我們台中的清水 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
4382.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
4411.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
那或者是到了這個新北比較外圍比如說未來瑞芳也是不是要考慮瑞芳只有3萬多人口可是他也是喊著有社宅需要我真的弄到那邊的時候我還能不能確定有那樣的需求但是我是建議說20%是一個原則是大家比較好做事你如果是真的要堅持20%我是建議20%就是一個原則不要寫成一個明定的條文看是大家會不會覺得會比較好處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
4417.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
4438.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
不是 原來是胖胖不愛決議就是把它寫是20%是一個婚姻家庭的原則啦看看大家會不會覺得這樣會比較好處理因為即使我到像台中我也做到清水去了清水的人口也不多但是因為當時也覺得清水在海線還是要有保留一個地方讓它可以有機會 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
4443.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
4449.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
用20%為原則來啦來啦這樣子啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
4472.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
4479.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
來我們現在看到那個第四條跟第四條之一其實問題都差不多博弈的本也是一樣因為這本看是用負債決議還是怎樣方式我們等一下來討論等一下來討論你的失職業部分是不是用負債決議方式你要發生要保留這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
4495.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
4509.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
OK好好那這樣子這樣子第4條第4條之一都保留我們繼續到第10條好不好好來我們接下來列示之一列示之一也保留第10條第10條沒有他就說保留在委員會內就是下次還可以討論立法技術上可以這樣子OK |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4525.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4552.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
對 對 就脫鉤了解 好啦 這樣好這樣好 來 第十條第十條部分來好 十條 文學庭委員謝謝召委這個租金的補貼的透明化嘛 實價登錄我是覺得這個東西內政部要不要思考一下我們討論一個日出條款的時間啦但我是覺得這事還是要做嘛遲早要做的事嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4553.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4569.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
那當然嘛因為我一直在想這件事情租金的這個實價登錄也好租金市場的透明化也好當然有兩條路徑可以走一個是寫在住宅法裡面一個是寫在租金專法裡面這個我可以聽我這個人心態倒是比較開放我可以聽意見但是問題是我不能接受 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4570.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4597.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
空轉我們從提租賃專法其實第一會期的時候就已經審了現在都還在等黨團協商就是因為覺得說我願意給行政部門一些時間所以沒有急著去做處理但是到現在還有未來你的藍圖要非常的清楚然後這個範圍要逐步的擴大細節要越來越增加只有你有辦法完全做到這件事情我才有機會說我討論別的修法方式要不然我這一條我就要堅持了好不好給你們一點時間說明好 來 李副委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4601.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4627.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
我來支持一下牛許廷委員這一條利益良善但是我們還是要考慮這個租屋市場的穩定那我也同意你剛剛講的日出條款那什麼時候要實施但是我到現在還是不知道量要怎麼樣可以很穩定的說比如說我們現在訂117年還是訂116年那這樣到時候是不是夠穩定量體是不是夠大這個值得來討論一下謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4632.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4634.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
沒有問其他意見市長來說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4638.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4664.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
那個跟各位委員報告原則上那個住宅市場透明化本來部長也就是積極在做從上任之後我們就明確在公佈我們每一年公佈兩次那各位委員都看到而且我們每一次公佈都會把資料再做更細緻的那個公佈因為很多資料我們就是說相關的統計我們必須要不斷的在區分而且我們要改變我們的登記制度因為租金補貼我們基本上還是以租金補貼作為大宗的資料來源那 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4666.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4691.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
很多資料的登錄我們就必須也要跟我們的租戶開始有一些互動讓他們把資料填得更細緻但是也要有一部分要跟各位報告就是說我們當我們做實價登錄的時候有些資料太細但是租戶本身沒有辦法有那麼明確資料的時候就會涉及登載不實這個會有一些問題比方說它的評數因為一般人沒有辦法估自己加多少評數我們大部分都是別人告訴我們實際評數多少這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4693.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4713.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
那大部分的人是沒有辦法明確知道他自己實際評數所以他在登載的時候如果資料有所錯誤這會造成我們在統計上還有相關資料公佈上的一些錯誤所以也會造成租屋市場上面的一些不穩定所以我們會遵照委員的建議我們就是逐步逐步的落實整個資訊透明 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4715.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4732.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
但是這個資訊透明的過程裡面我們會有一些保留是因為我們在這個過程裡面有些資訊它有涉及到承租戶本身還有房東本身對他自己住宅空間他的那個評估數不一定那麼清楚那我請我們市長再做進一步補充 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4733.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4760.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
跟委員報告一下如果把實價登錄的資料直接轉進去把租補的資料直接轉為實價登錄資料大概會有幾個問題第一個就房東醫院我們先不談這個部分那第二個我們現在在做租補的時候為了讓房客好申請那大概資料都非常簡單就只有一個租期租金然後還有一個試樣而已那其實這個資料的部分如果一旦出去直接轉實價登錄出去可能第一個會有遇到不實跟房客被採發的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4761.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4784.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
因為到底實際的面積是怎麼樣的情況可能房客也不是那麼清楚那第二個部分的話有關於租金的部分其實會涉及到它的設備是怎麼樣那會決定它的租金的價格那你只是單純有一個租期然後跟一個物件的資料那裡面詳細資料都沒有的話那其實在外面引用在引用上面其實也會發生問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4785.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4806.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
所以那個部分我們是建議在現在的話是先不要修那我們這一個部分的話再回去評估一下看是附帶決議我們回去再研議一下因為如果一旦要做實價登錄當然必要有相關的一個資料量那那個對於那個珠寶的一個房客的一個民眾的一個衝擊性那個可能要先做一個評估以上報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4809.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4829.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
那個市長要補充嗎原則上我們就是會有我們已經理了一個相對案我們會在另外一條做一些說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4833.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4859.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
我覺得第十條牛許廷委員他後面加的這些我認為也不是不好可是我必須要講我們如果把你這些都寫下去我們這個住宅法你又會變成好像作用法的那個在裡面那我的建議是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4861.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4876.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
你這裡面我們你把這個牛許廷委員他裡面要求要做的這一些我不認為不好那把它放在立法說明要求他們這樣子做不然我會覺得這個法令會變成作用法 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4877.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4900.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
你會變成一個作用法這樣對我們的立法品質我覺得你這裡面的所有的都不是原則的精神都是該怎麼做 這是作用法那我們如果修了這樣變成作用法我比較擔心但劉許廷委員他裡面的這一些我還是覺得可以做所以你把他放 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4902.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4920.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
對啦 我支持你啊所以 但我覺得法條我們不應該把它放在這個母法裡面啦我們是不是看內政部你們怎麼解決這一個我們放在立法說明或什麼的我覺得這些是該做也可以做的啦能不能再補充 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4926.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4942.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
好 謝謝趙薇不過就本席的了解住宅法應該是作用法吧如果看其他的條文應該很多都是談要怎麼去做這個事嘛那現在關鍵是這樣嘛我剛有問一個問題嘛就是說你能不能透過租賃專法的方式解決這個事但我後來剛剛查了一下我們整個租金補貼的政策它是寫在住宅法裡面的嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4943.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4965.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
所以現在看起來要重新處理好像也不太容易對不對那就非得要面對這件事不可了嘛那另外一個問題是我們剛剛討論都沒有回答到了嘛就包含剛剛幾位委員都講方向上是正確的但可以思考日出條款是什麼時候嘛或者是我們在什麼時候要做到什麼樣的事情逐步達成透明化這件事嘛這是我比較希望可以聽到行政機關表達意見的地方謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4971.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4991.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
跟各位委員報告我們原則上當然還是租金透明化是我們的方向我們會建議說因為剛才洪路委員已經提出就是說盡量不要再使用作用法的那種方式造成行政機關在執行上面的所以我們會希望說如果可以的話是不是我們修第47條 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4993.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
5016.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
那第四條透過那個資料分析什麼我們把它就是逐步逐步的建制化完成整個的那個資訊的透明化這樣子也就是我們利用統計資訊等等我們把它做一個比較完整的資料的公佈那其實也是逐步達成我們就是牛委員跟各位委員所主張的我們本來就應該要做足經的公開化透明化但是我們透過一個漸進的方式來達成這樣子第47條 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
5030.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
5053.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
我請市長說明一下47條的部分就是我們現在的話就是運用珠寶的資料來做一個統計的分析那這個也可以解決掉說第一個我們如果在第10條訂定的話那房客必須要填非常多的資料那更衍生了一些可能錯誤的情況那運用這個資料用統計的方式其實讓大家來參考也是一個比較好的一個途徑這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
5054.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
5060.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
好那我們第4條先保留先保留我們接下我現在審好那接下來第18條 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
5080.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
5083.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
第18條第18那個署長說明一下 上次討論之後說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
5108.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
5118.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
因為第18條上次大概有報告過啦就是說原來提案的想法是說讓全台灣的民眾都去填但是我們就實務上來講實務上來講其實他 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
5122.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
5149.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
最大的可能就造成大家都去填變成我們的社宅需求會是爆量因為我一個人是可以填很多縣市的是可以填很多縣市的那會變成造成你你那個需求反而看不準因為大家都去填的時候就好像一個許願池我希望在台北也有我希望在新北也有我希望在桃園也有我希望在基隆也有因為每個人他會對他未來的動向不是那麼明確的時候他是有可能這樣填 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
5150.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
5174.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
你這樣反而會看不清楚真實的需求那所以我們的建議是第18條的部分我們要寫的說是主管機關是評估實際需求的時候來設置也就是說我興辦 等我在興辦計畫的時候我是需求來去做調查 去做需求平台這樣會比較真實 對於需求者來講 他看得到那個位置在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
5175.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
5201.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
也就是說我們現在的作業是完工了才開始去辦登記平台但是我把它提早你在辦這個計畫的時候你就開始去做調查你在辦這個案子的時候你就去做需求調查那這樣會比較真實這樣會比較貼近真實而不是說讓民眾一直去填去填那個時候那個數量暴增你反而看不清楚是要用這樣的概念 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
5204.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
5228.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
市長要補充嗎市長 處長不好意思我外委會 但是我對這一條我有一個我想要了解一件事情就是那現在內政部或是各地方政府內政部好了就是你們在評估各地哪裡要蓋社宅的時候的評估的條件是什麼因為其實我們當初在修這個第18條的目的也是希望說有一個比較明顯的趨勢跟方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
5230.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
5251.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
來選定說哪裡該蓋哪裡不該蓋因為就像你剛剛提就剛剛我們第四條討論的問題一樣嘛我們剛剛地產部那邊講說到底幾%放多少什麼族群上放在第幾放在多少比例問題是因為我不知道我們沒有個概念說哪裡有哪些需求所以我不知道這邊要不要蓋那邊要不要蓋所以那時候18條定的18條的目的也是希望說讓內政部或各地方政府能夠明確的 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
5252.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
5269.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
至少掌握趨勢比如說台北市什麼地方台中是什麼地方這邊突然有可能有工業區的發展或有什麼樣需求或是像竹北市等等的因為竹克的關係所以周邊的幾個鄉鎮有這樣的人口成長有這樣的需求所以去我們的錢才去什麼地方去蓋 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
5270.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
5296.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
那因為現在如果是由內政部來決定說我先蓋了然後再來看需求我怕資源會浪費我擔心的是這個事情我們擔心這個所以才有這18條的這個問題所以如果內政部能夠解決說資源的分配不要浪費然後你們能夠提前掌握說什麼樣的地方該蓋什麼樣的色彩跟他的需求的話當然我覺得18條大家可以討論以上 謝謝是感謝委員謝謝還有沒有其他委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
5298.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
5302.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
我的想法也是這樣我們提這個需求平台其實就是先有需求你們才蓋而不是說你們提了這個哪邊要蓋之後再讓民眾來提我在這邊有沒有需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
5322.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
5329.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
我們一開始的目的就是希望給你們參考啊這樣到時候配合起來會比較供需才會平衡嘛對 然後我們當時上禮拜的討論的問題是說這個假性需求的問題你們如何去解決所以我比較想要知道的是你們針對假性需求有沒有比較建議的去做一定程度的篩選 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
5344.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
5361.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
那這個我們可以來討論但不會是說是你們先說好我們在這裡要蓋了那我們再來看這裡有多少人然後是怎麼樣的人的需求甚至是怎麼樣的房型什麼樣的家庭你們都沒有掌握那你們就決定在這邊要蓋所以再讓這些人來入住是這樣子嗎那個張志忠委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
5367.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
5384.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
好 謝謝主席那我也依循前面兩個委員的講法我覺得因為我們那個台灣內政部的社宅應該是有一個未來的整個推行的一個計畫所以還是我們還是有建議主管機關應該定期對於社宅的需求來去做 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
5385.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
5412.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
諮詢然後定期做成報告然後對社會住宿宅的需求調查供給區位新辦戶數房型配比及公共設施等相關資訊應該徵詢周邊民眾意見然後並公開讓民眾來知道讓很多的民意代表附近的很多的民眾可以知道說未來這些的社宅是要做什麼東西坪數規劃是什麼我覺得這蠻重要的就依照這個內政部他們你們整體的一個規劃謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
5414.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
5441.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
好 謝謝就是定期啦 要定期公佈啦 謝謝來 請劉雪婷委員再補充就大家都會講假性需求的問題但假性需求難道不是一個假設性的問題嗎就是很多人有可能因為有許願詞所以大家就亂填一通嘛其實國土署講的大白話就是這樣擔心的是是這樣你擔心是有道理的 沒有問題但我覺得這次也不盡然一定會發生嘛那我的意思是講無論如何你一定要有登記序的登記平台你才有機會走向輪候制嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
5442.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
5468.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
這是今天大家去提這一條最重要的目的那我想大家也不會反對未來是要走向輪候制的因為你永遠都抽錢大家都在那個運氣裡面那個終究不是個辦法那只是一個過度的機制而已所以你一定要走向輪候制嘛所以一定要有登記平台那也許真的會出現部分的人亂登記一通出現所謂的假興趣你也要掌握不是嗎那這個東西如果很多嚴重影響的時候大家再來做機制規則的檢討跟修正如果他狀況不多那不就是大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
5469.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
5490.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
多慮了嘛對不對所以我覺得這個理由不構成說大家不去建置這個需求登記平台的原因啦我覺得是這樣啦所以這一條我們是比較堅持啦好不好謝謝來 署長來說明我說明一下就是說我們的修正條件裡面是有我們是有提一個修正動議啦那其實沒有 我也說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
5495.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
5516.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
我也說清楚一下就是說我們其實第一個你會看18條第一段我們是評估社宅的需求總量其實那時候已經統計過一次了我們是統計過一次了我們是用比較大量的數據在做統計那統計以後因為你最終還要落入到區位很多民眾在選的時候區位其實是很重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
5517.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
5544.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
區域區域是很重要但是你不去填你一開始需求我是有一個去估計的方式才去算才會知道說我要在哪個行政區裡面去蓋我們大致上第一輪一定是做這樣的一個需求但是今天如果在這個事情沒有做我們去直接去丟一個需求平台的時候你會發現兩個是打架的你會發現兩個是打架的 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
5547.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
5569.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
也就是說你會看到色彩需求平台那個數字是非常大跟你真實用數據評估出來的時候會差距很大那這個時候就是實務上那你要根據需求平台譬如說我在某個區我算出來大概是500戶結果你登記需求平台填了1000多2000那是要去蓋1000 2000那你不去蓋又會變成你忽視民眾的需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
5577.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5593.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
又會出現這樣的一個問題所以我才會說是說為什麼會是逐段我先從總數上去一步一步往下推會多出一個比較清楚的量那這樣的話去填讓他再去填的時候會比較精準當然今天如果社宅能夠遍地開花到處蓋其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5596.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5621.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
那個他去填需求平台我覺得大概都不會是太大的問題現在就是因為量不是非常夠所以我們才會用這樣評估的方式一段一段往下去希望能夠落出來的是比較精準落入到他們的需求的位置是用這樣的概念所以我們也是說我不知道完工才去登記才去讓你做需求平台而是在你準備要蓋這一個社宅的時候你就趕快 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5621.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5638.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
對外公佈然後對外去設這個需求平台讓民眾去填那這樣他在辦這個計畫的時候辦這個涉宰性犯案計畫的時候還可以比較清楚來我這邊填的是什麼樣的人比較多或許我在相關的房型的設定數量我就可以趕快做一個修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5639.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5658.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
可是你一開始舔的時候因為舔的人他不是說他一定是假性需求而是他舔的時候我在做一個全國性計畫的時候你舔一個小片他舔的時候或許他是四年後六年後的需求可是跟你現在手頭有的不一定對得起來可是你要不要當他是需求你還是要當他是需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5661.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5673.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
你還是得當他是需求這就是我們講時間差的問題我們很多事情都落在時間你去舔的時候或許就像我講他現在在台中念書可是四年後他是要回台北的 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5681.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5709.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
沒有 我也說明一下我覺得可能有點因為文字的寫法大家的想法你剛剛在講都是講需求平台但其實我覺得這法大家提出來的重點是登記平台因為我們的目標是往輪候制的方向去走其實應該是這樣也就是說我要哪些現在已經有的社宅我要在上面登記應該是這樣那你如果把它放大成變成一個需求總體平台我覺得也可以做因為你講說這是不是假印需求是不是超級需求你都可以技術克服 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5709.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5736.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
然後如果重複登記你也可以做套疊篩選嘛所以我覺得也不至於不能做啦好不好但我要強調是我們大部分提這18條修法意見的人都是講是登記的登記需求平台也就是說我已經想住了而且我想要在哪些地方住我就是因為要先登記我才有什麼排隊的問題嘛才能開始排隊嘛對不對所以他其實應該是你如果覺得說如果造成誤解那法條上文字做修正把它變登記平台我覺得也可以思考的好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5738.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5763.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
我們也是在這裡也就他是這樣才能接輪候制啦這樣才輪候制而不是一開始一開始都還沒有確定要蓋多少次就去做因為那樣子做的時候假興需求會太多啦所以我們才說準備要興辦計劃的時候就可以開始去做這樣的話出來的數字比較容易落入輪候制比較容易進到輪候制這樣的制度也比較精準啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5765.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5767.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
你們都可以來登記 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5775.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5800.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
因為其實一開始我們本來講的就是需求登記平台只是當時沒講說登記怕會有假性的需求所以說希望不要用登記但現在因為剛剛你們的修正條文是說應該評估你們會評估涉宅的需求總量那評估你們到底是怎麼評估的那評估跟實際需求是不是有落差這個可能也都要知道然後剛剛聽到的大概都是怕說 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5800.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5820.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
假性需求去登記的時候他可能是四年後到六年後的需求他就先來登記所以說是在登記的時候是不是就可以做這樣子的一個區分比如說你的需求大概是什麼時候或者是說你有相關的我覺得這可以用一些條件來去做限制免得就是說他現在其實還沒有需要他就先來登記以為這樣在排隊的概念 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5824.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5839.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
那其實我覺得這個應該是在這個設計上就可以做一些的這樣的調整而不是說有一點因業廢死啦就說怕說他因為他他只來登記然後做假期需求一堆反而沒有去落實這樣的事情不曉得真正的需求是什麼主席 主席在這裡我要來問市長以自己來講我現在自己有危機啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5851.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5874.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
跟習近平美女的好跟像我這樣要怎樣定義因為這也是很多白色的訴求跟想法沒有人 車子騎過去就說社會住宅要好要好但是要怎樣定義是剛才徐理貞說的跟六個日子現在現有的企業的問題是不是市長你回答一下好 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5885.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5901.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
這一條跟第十條有點像時間到了就解決但是我們都希望可以提早上路那也希望國路署可以在這一些問題當中如果技術問題可以克服的我們就法條就寫大一點那我們用技術問題這些事情細則來克服 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5904.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5922.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
舉例第10條怎麼解決就是我們希望他上路的時間不會影響到用租金補貼跟這些基數然後讓他上路的時間不會影響到整體出租房屋的數量這一條也一樣我們希望可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5923.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5952.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
未來當然是用登記制但是登記平台什麼時候上去不會造成現在大家像許願池的這個方式有沒有可能有這些技術的方式讓國路署可以提出來讓大家來可以用這個第18條大家也希望登記嘛那怎麼樣可以有這個技術讓這個社宅大家不會說到處許願那有什麼方式可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5953.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5975.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
不會因為登記去影響到我們對於社宅需求的判斷謝謝總的說明一下我也把現行的制度再跟大家說明一下就是說我們現在的做法因為是直接叫做抽籤的登記平台也就是說我社宅確定拿到死照因為我拿到死照告可以完工入住大概還要一到兩個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5976.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5999.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
所以通常都是拿到死照以後就對外公佈就說可以來抽籤登記可以來抽籤登記那也就是說你就開始去登記那所以這樣的方式的話是最精準掌握就是說那一個時段已經預告知你了我可能兩個月後就可以安排你入住所以我現在對外公告你可以來登記那 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
6000.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
6019.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
現在第二個就是說輪候制也就是說在那登記以後那你如果沒有抽籤到我們還是會依照籤位的順序你請你來你也可以填你到時候要候補那我們再依據這個順序去候補的順序用這樣的概念去處理所以現在的叫做抽籤的登記平台 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
6020.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
6047.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
那我現在如果要往前推到需求的登記平台我們現在概念是說好那也為了不要讓民眾說那是搞一搞結果我很不知道那個時間我不知道有這個資訊然後我我因為這樣錯失了機會那我沒有去登記有這樣困擾那一種就我把他往前那就比較接近叫需求平台就我先告訴你這個案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
6049.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
6060.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
4年後可以蓋好4年後大概預定什麼時候那你來登記你來登記那這樣的好處有好處也有壞處好處是說好 我提早知道了 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
6061.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
6080.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
但是有可能到時候四年後你個人的家庭因素 經濟因素個人的因素你又不要了那可能到時候是大家給就是說還要再處理一遍就對了所以現在只是說把這個所謂的抽籤登記平台往前提變成需求登記平台 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
6081.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
6110.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
是用這樣的概念 但是今天如果說要做一個全國的登記平台我現在說要全國的登記平台的時候那事情就很大 為什麼 因為現在的北北桃北北是可以允許重復填的是可以重復填的所以我們沒有辦法阻止他重復填我們是不能阻止他重復填 因為現在現行的北北就有北桃也有 新北跟桃園也有復填的那也就是我們其實是不能擋他復填 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
6111.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
6140.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
也就是說它重複出現兩次甚至出現三次我們都不能擋所以我才會說比較擔心是你一旦變全國大陸來登記的時候也沒有 因為它是不限的因為譬如說我台北有好幾個社宅它是可以同時填是可以啊 但是標示你也不能擋它 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
6142.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
6165.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
對 你也不能擋 這樣只是變成說到時候那個總需求量會變成地方政府會看不清楚我到底這裡要蓋幾個 到底要蓋幾個 他也不知道他也不知道他要蓋多少所以當你今天需求平台是要 我說明一下當你需求平台變成是你政府要興建數量的時候那就是一個困擾 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
6166.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
6173.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
那就是也困難 會不會變成反而讓政府看不清楚你真正需求的數量跟位置 看不出來是這個意思請問署長 署長請問一下我先說一下啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
6185.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
6206.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
署長他所說的這個問題我認為也是問題不過啦以目前我覺得以全台灣來講20年內你的社會住宅永遠是不夠的所以你這個我必須如果講你那個問題會發生但是在20年內那不是問題你蓋多少都不夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
6208.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
6234.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
所以你让他去重复登记然后这个需求反而我觉得政府也更能够知道大家要的是什么房型或什么的我们不要都从单一的面向去看我这个可能他重复登记那你从这个数据里面可以看到你未来你的新建是要两房多一点还是三房多一点还是什么你也可以从这边得到一些数据 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
6236.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
6258.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
我再強調一次20年內你的社會住宅永遠不夠你這些人重複登記他也不一定抽得到錢所以雖然有這個問題但這個問題是你不管你怎麼做都有這個問題你現行的制度不變的話他也是可以重複登記所以我覺得思考一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
6261.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
6281.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
我想請教一下署長因為你剛講說你們現在你們現在這個修正東西是說要評估社會住宅的需求總量那請問你們是怎麼評估的因為如果照這樣講的話照理說我們現在社會住宅應該是足夠的因為你們有評估有需求然後你們才去蓋嗎可是目前當然還有很多用地的取得各方面的 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
6281.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
6296.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
因素啦那所以你們現在評估之後好然後需求總量出來了那目前到底有多少蓋了多少社宅是需求總量這邊你們得到這個評估之後而蓋的這個社宅現在有達到嗎請我們次長說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
6302.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
6327.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
我先說明等一下再我想我們原則上我們提的修正動議還是建立在就是說事實的基礎上面也就是說我們去評估當地的實際需求之後我們公告了公告之後再請民眾來做登記這樣子就會有一個互補的作用就是說我依據整體的人口結構跟區位的狀態等等還有在地的經濟發展我們去提出我們的新辦計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
6328.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
6347.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
那新版計畫透過行政院核定之後我們就去公告也跟地方政府討論之後我們就公告公告之後民眾來登記那透過這些民眾的登記我們就去反映說包括房型的設計等等我們就可以做一些調整做一些微調那這樣子就會更符合地方政府的或者在地居民的實質上的需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
6348.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
6366.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
因為剛才講過就是說我們署長特別強調說我們如果開放全國性的登記的時候的確會有一些人就是他就是到處許願因為法國的狀況就是這樣法國的狀況就是他全法國到處去許願那全法國到處去許願的結果就是他造成在一定程度上那個需求的混淆 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
6367.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
6389.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
所以我們才會強調說我們這個計劃公佈了確定之後大家來登記其實是某種登記制可是我這個登記制是可以作為我們在整體設計上面的參考也就是說我計劃核定而不是我房子蓋完我在計劃核定之後我根據大家的需求的狀態我做一些房型的調整或者是需求的一定程度的調整這樣子因為我們在蓋房子我們還在蓋所以還可以做一些調整這樣子會比較符合狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
6395.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
6420.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
隨著就像剛剛鴻路委員講的就是說隨著時間的慢慢的往後發生那我們的房子最慢慢就會足夠足夠之後這個事情就會到最後達到一個平衡的狀態所以這是為什麼我們的修正動議是寫這樣也希望委員能夠支持就是說我們的確支持有一個登記平台讓大家去反映他的住宅需求也同時讓我們有一個明確的住宅的需求的參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
6421.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
6447.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
那透過這樣的方式但是我們是希望是說它是計劃已經公佈了因為我們在評定計劃哪裡要有住宅需求的時候我們不會只有考量在地就是說那些登記人的需求我們還要考慮在地的經濟交通還有人口結構等等這些狀況我們去做一個最終的評估那國家資源是有限的那用地的取得也是不太容易所以我們在儘量可以取得的土地上面去做最大的資源的投資 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
6448.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
6458.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
那相對來講我們做這個平台就讓我們政府跟民間有一個更實質的互動我們去做一些房型等等的一些調整這是我們這個設計的目的這樣子好 謝謝次長說明這條我們討論那麼多 博弈怎麼可能博弈講起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
6473.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
6491.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
那個內政部一直在做的是希望可以了解到實際的這個社宅需求狀況我們一直在想的大家一直在想的是怎麼樣讓民眾看到我哪裡可以登記到社宅那我覺得這個大家再來討論一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
6495.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
6509.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
你有沒有補充的嗎你按照內政部現在的建議條文是未評估當地食慾的得建制社會住宅需求平台你們差太多了吧當然法條都是應該要建制你現在變得建制你不是差太多了嗎這個比剛剛的10%跟20%差得還多這樣不太好吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
6512.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
6538.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
我是建議啦如果說大家贊成因為原來大家的動議裡面是都有講到需求我是建議讓他實務一點是變登記平台原來都不要再講需求因為需求那個就是你永遠會看不清楚你永遠會看不清楚那個事情對所以我補充一下我的建議就是這樣我是覺得得建制改成應建制然後需求改成登記看這樣子好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
6541.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
6556.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
因為我們要的是登記平台而且我是把他提早啦也就是提早你要辦的時候你就要去做啦我重點放在登記是好事啦但我不免有一些疑慮嘛因為你現在是講說你現在抽籤你也是有登記平台你就現在的東西就照用那我就是往前 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
6557.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
6570.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
對啊你要具體能夠講出來就是說它有哪些額外的功能嘛今天大家除了講說要應做平台是把你在做的事情法條化之外很多人都講了很多的內容嘛不同的版本有不同的細節對不對有些人講說你要考量什麼什麼什麼等等那你如果是登記的話同樣我覺得除了應建制之外你的登記平台要發揮什麼樣的功能我覺得也是要做一些補充說明我覺得這樣說服力才會夠這個法律效果才會強啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
6584.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
6606.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
這本來就是作用法 拜託我覺得大家可以討論一下啦文字可以討論一下啦好不好但是我是覺得重點我也是贊成說要的話是把它變登記啦不要再是需求那個需求不要再就是不要想需求因為對啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
6608.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6623.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
內政部你們用你們的修正條文你們直接改啊是不是你就改成因建制社會住宅登記平台或什麼的你們馬上改看大家的看法啊這樣內政部先改改 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6628.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6642.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
OK那這個部分喔我們也討論很久18條待來見佛家修正之後我們來那個再討論好1919之一接下來鎮定19之一我們討論接下來到這一條合併討論19之一23跟52這三條門一併來討論提案委員有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6656.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6676.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
內政部要先說明一下你這次的那個在上週我們討論完之後內政部這邊的修正的部分是不是重點來說明一下讓其他人知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6684.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6685.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
19-1 23-52 三條一起並討論19-1 23-52 三條 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6719.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6720.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
還是要鼓勵一下包租馬 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6728.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6737.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
我們內政部這邊再上市之後你們有修訂的部分要說明嗎因為他是以50%為原則這就是原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6757.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6768.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
十九之一我覺得還是一條一條來十九之一是寫說這個是民眾黨團的提案嘛說採承租民間住宅轉租並代為管理已達50% |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6770.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6795.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
為原則嘛對不對並優先轉租於符合本法第四條第二項之對象其實就是包租要50%嘛就是這樣子啊包租代管要各50%嘛這本來就是大家的目標啊那而且他也沒有寫一定啊也沒有寫時間所以我覺得強度上應該內政部要可以接受才是嘛對不對啊其他另外兩條是手段嘛我怎麼樣達到50%的目標嘛對不對所以我覺得目標的條文要不要先討論一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6806.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6807.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
第19之一第19之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6811.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6832.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
今天重點就是在大家對那個原則的強制力到什麼程度如果今天只是原則沒有任何負擔決議要怎麼做或者是要怎麼降我覺得是可以討論但是如果說連後面那些全部要加進來那個原則的強制力就很強了我現在比較擔心這件事情所以關鍵是後面的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6841.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6855.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
我建議是這樣就是說那個就像我們書長講的如果說那個19條之一原則原則並沒有其他的附帶條件跟什麼我們當然可以接受因為包租代管我們現在比例是大概是3比7啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6856.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6878.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
我們要逐步增加我們也在努力當中但是這個涉及到房東他們願意釋出的比例的狀況因為你要整個房子包租給人家的確有很多層次上面這個房東他有很多壓力我們也要考量就是說我們不能夠在整個住宅市場上面我們讓房東最後怕點 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6879.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6899.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
他不把房子釋出我們也很困難所以如果是以50%為原則那沒有其他的附帶條件我們當然可以接受但是就是說我們會努力去做但是如果說你後續的條件又一直往下堆增的話這個會造成說我們在執行上面會有些壓力跟困難以這一條來講沒有寫任何條件就我的理解應該是這樣沒有錯吧對啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6909.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6910.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
所以手段等一下討論嘛那個麥義貞委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6914.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6938.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
主席我要補充說明因為包租現在推不動不是因為房東不願意做公益而是因為制度誘因不對所以包租一做就是三壘租金不能就是誰的市場去調查還有就是承接弱勢承擔的空池 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6940.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6944.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
給管理的風險所以現在是免稅只有就是每一個月1.5萬所以我們在23那個時候就是我們有說提高是3萬嘛所以現在就是差不多跟我們代管是差不多的當然是大家選代管嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6957.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6960.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
因為房東跟業者當然是要選那個風險最低的啊所以我們才要為了提高就是包租才會說如果是一樣的話當然是大家選代管所以要彈性的代管結果就是包租比例長期就是剩下32%所以就是因為這樣子嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6983.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6990.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
那個也怕 那個也怕 但是你沒有給他誘因你有誘因就不會怕 對不對所以我們就要求的是這樣子嘛以上好 來 謝謝這條有其他意見19C |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
7001.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
7018.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
市長說明一下19條之一的第二款中央主管機關應與衛福部建立共同弱勢處遇協商機制這我是不是請衛福部代表表示一下意見我們是建議我們本來就在做這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
7019.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
7031.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
你法令上面這樣子寫會造成其實他本來是屬於衛福相關的規範那我們如果寫的話我們會造成說我們跟衛福部的權責上面會有混亂OK那衛福部 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
7038.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
7057.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
好 我也有報告陳儒剛剛次長的說明那我們看現在現行的住宅法其實第34條也有去規範主管機關或民間興辦的社會住宅應該考量這些居住對象的身心狀況家庭組成及其他必要的條件 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
7058.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
7074.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
提供適宜的設置設備或必要之社會福利服務所以就是現行法規其實我們都有協同內政部在做這個弱勢者的服務的這些機制的建立跟租屋的協助謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
7088.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
7109.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
第一段第一段的部分如果沒有意見我們就照修正座這樣通過了好不好OK恭喜第一條通過通過一條了好 接下來第二十條第二十 都沒有意見喔這樣就二十條 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
7112.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
7131.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
第二項第十九之一這部分台灣民眾黨版本裡面就是在第二段中央主管機關英語衛生福利部協同建立弱勢處理協助機制這部分跟其他法條說明到所以在十九之一這部分我們在第二段這邊給它刪除第二項的部分刪除 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
7133.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
7158.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
啊 內政部這邊有什麼意見 內政部這裡 內政部有沒有意見就叫我們修正圖內政部也沒問題啊你看內政部內政部剛剛可不可以啊對 內政部不是啦 我們現在就不用再講了啦照他們的文字這樣你們可不可以啦可以啦好啦好啦好啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
7159.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
7181.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
就第二項刪除第二項刪除啦對第二項刪除啦第二段刪除然後我們會見OK 那這個1911我們照民眾黨的那個版本後面第二段修正刪除之後通過啦待會我們在後面再做一次要請什麼要請什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
7193.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
7206.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
來 接下來第20條第20條23 23嘛 你要不要一起 收住貸款一起處理來 23 23條收住貸款一起處理不是 他們這誰還要證 他們這誰還要證回啦19-1 23跟52嘛 對不對來 那23條 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
7224.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
7245.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
各位人好23條因為涉及到就是要提高免稅的額度當然這個部分我們也謝謝麥委員提出來報租代管的重視但是因為我們考慮的問題是說第一個就是目前房東的我們是覺得房東的租金收入的優惠跟房客租金支出的優惠應該要橫頻考慮 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
7246.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
7267.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
因為現在房客的話也是每年可以扣除的那個額度也是只有18萬元就是每個月就是差不多15000塊錢那經過我們去年113年度實施以後經過我們這一年申報的情況統計的資料來看其實房客他們申報的這個租金支出大概平均每戶大概是11萬元左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
7268.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
7294.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
那說實在就是說表示他們並沒有真正支出到那麼多的租金也就是在租金扣除上面我們現行的18萬是對他們是非常充裕可以使用的這是第一個問題我們是覺得說一個是房東他取得的收入應該跟支出面房客取得的租金支出應該要橫頻考慮那另外一個問題就是說因為我們在第15條裡面有個公益出租人 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
7295.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
7309.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
公益出租人其實跟我們這個社宅的這個包租代管其實他都是一樣都是基於公益他願意把他的房屋提供出來做出租使用那如果說第15條對於公益出租人我們現在是維持一萬五千元 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
7310.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
7330.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
那如果說在這個包租貸款這邊對於社宅的包租貸款業者出租就可以提高到三萬塊錢其實會產生一個不很平的現象那同樣在住宅法裡面我們是覺得今天你的房屋不管是公益出租人來出租或者是你是透過這個包租貸款業者來出租社會住宅 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
7331.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
7350.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
其實他們的優應該是採用一樣的優惠這樣子的話會比較很平那另外還有一個問題就是說因為我們這邊在把那個免稅額度提高的話會可能引起外界一個誤會因為大家都覺得說那你鼓勵房東可以提高他的租金的免稅額那是不是有一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
7352.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
7375 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
印象當中會讓這些房客會覺得說那房東是不是要開始提高租金了會有這樣一個比較誤解的謬思所以我們是覺得說基於以上的考慮因為剛好第15條當時在委員會有討論的時候已經有過一個附帶決議就是希望我們財政部跟內政部大家一起來共同研商看看就是整個租金市場的變化 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
7376.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
7382.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
然後適度的調整它的免稅額度那我們是建議可不可以把第15條的附帶決議跟第23條的附帶決議我們來並同來處理那我原來的條文只寫了原來附帶決議只寫了公益出租人 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
7391.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
7405.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
那我們這邊是建議說可以把這個就是房東願意把房屋提供住來做包租社會住宅包租代管的話這兩個的相關的免稅額度我們都可以並同檢討而且因為剛好我們現在跟內政部正在討論那個住宅專法 租賃專法 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
7409.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
7433.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
那租賃專法裡面呢其實內政部也跟財務部之間已經有一些初步的共識我們也願意就是對那個租賃專法裡面如果說是房東願意把他的房屋提供出來做出租代管使用包租代管使用的話也許在這個付稅上的優惠我們可以提供一些租稅上的優惠讓他有些誘因鼓勵他願意把他的房屋拿出來包租代管 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
7433.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
7450.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
所以我們是以上這樣的建議是不是可以讓15條跟23條因為剛好都是在住宅法裡面然後有一個比較橫頻的考慮然後一起做一個附帶決議這樣子我們可以就提供適當的誘因未來我們一定會跟內政部繼續討論以上是財政部的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
7462.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
7462.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
請進委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
7491.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
7502.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
好 謝謝這第23條本席也有這個提案那本席的提案是將社會住宅包租方式的房東每月租金免稅額從1萬5提高到2.5萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
7505.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
7525.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
那我們免稅額調高是因應區域租金的差異並不是要服務高所得所以這個部分我們最主要提案將包租額度提高到2.5萬是為了鼓勵房東更願意釋出長期而且穩定的 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
7526.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
7553.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
房屋來源那降低管理的風險那我們也希望政府可以精算不同地區的租金分佈而不是以租稅公平為名行忽略區域差異的知識所以以上這一個部分因為我沒有看到今天內政部官方的版本希望是怎麼樣所以特別提出來詢問了解一下謝謝來 張公務員 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
7557.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
7580.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
其實這個我覺得如果照內政部的意思是先不要動因為他們可能簽一法動全身然後這個直接把稅率什麼寫在這邊可能對他們其他以後要財政部要做什麼都會立下一個這個他以後不知道怎麼做的一個標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
7582.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
7610.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
所以我覺得之前我們就附帶決議就有提一個附帶決議那我們是不是用附帶決議來處理然後裡面直接寫明了這個免稅額度 付稅優惠那應該要怎麼做我這邊有一個修正的這個再修正動議我這邊有是不是大家看一下還是我直接唸一下好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
7612.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
7639.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
為鼓勵房東願意將閒置空屋釋出內政部應與財政部定期釋出市場行情滾動檢討免稅額度提供適度之付稅優惠以提升公益出租人及社會住宅包租代管業者出租房屋之誘因就是把它直接用附帶決議處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
7642.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7654.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
好 謝謝張紅路委員的補充說明徐馨文本期要特別強調我們這個賦稅署強調了83%房東免繳稅但是忽視了雙北還有新竹等高房價地區的實際行情 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7666.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7686.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
那目前全國劃一的1.5萬元的免稅額呢對於租金高昂地區的房東參與的意願誘因不足所以這一塊還是要麻煩這個考量一下市長請回覆我想這個跟各位委員做一個說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7686.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7714.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
那謝謝召委跟各位委員原則上我們的重點還是在於鼓勵那個出租人把房屋釋出那鼓勵把房屋釋出我們這邊用免稅額其實不見得是真的回應到那個房東的需求房東真正的需求有一些房東就是說他們其實是手邊有一些房子那他可能就是他喜歡短暫短時間的出租那我們希望這個短時間的出租也可以拿出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7715.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7729.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
或者是說他的房子的價值比較高他拿出來出租的時候他希望獲得的是其他稅率方面的優惠那這些東西跟所得稅比起來他覺得其他房租的其他的稅的優惠可能比較有誘因 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7730.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7748.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
因為所得稅其實對高所得來講也沒有什麼太大的影響相對來講是他的房子在處理的過程裡面他如果因為我們現在也是希望說我們也非常感謝財政部的支持我們希望說他如果把房子長期拿出來租賃 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7749.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7771.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
那到一个程度之后比方说我们讲6年或者是12年他愿意这样做那他后续的一些相关的租税优惠我们可以跟财政部来做滚动式的检讨这样子对这些高房价高所得的人他才有最足够的诱因尤其是对双北地区或者是像新竹竹科这样子的一些房子因为他的房价太高了 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7771.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7787.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
所得也很高你跟他減個什麼一萬兩萬所以內政部的意思是其實你們的優惠更優惠我們這個1.5到2.5是小case你們有更對他們更有利的對因為我我們可能不是屬於高那種 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7788.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7809.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
有很多房子我無法理解那你們說明一下我再補充一下就是說其實因為1.5去調你看起來好像是滿足了北北桃還有新竹的部分但是反過來對其他地區的房東會誤解說那我就可以把我的房租調到2萬反正對我來講也是免稅 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7811.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7825.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
對我來講也是免稅這樣反而是另外一個造成另外一個但是我們現在真正在跟財政部在討論的是現在市面上空餘屋我們怎麼樣透過其他的租稅的減免的方式去出來有沒有具體的我們了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7829.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7846.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
說明一下好了我大概說明一下因為其實房東他們對那個就是持有期間他們房屋出租的租金收入其實他們因為現在報稅的那個費用成本很高就像委員講的說你一萬提到兩萬五一萬五提到一萬塊錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7847.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7865.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
但是因為它現在可以有60%的成本費用扣掉所以它其實真正的所得增加免稅的所得增加也只有4000萬元而已對大家來講其實這個誘因並不是他們真正的需求那經過這麼多年我們住宅法也有住任專法實施下來以後勤力政部也有去做一些調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7865.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7884.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
那看起來這些租屋族呢他們比較介意的是說我現在租人家對不對那我現在所得該怎麼課稅就課稅而且他又享有這些住宅法的優惠他們其實覺得他們好像對這方面並沒有真正想要調高這個額度但是他們比較介意的是說有一天萬一我這房子要賣掉的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7886.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7902.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
那我可能會面臨到比較高的稅負因為我們現在那個房地合一稅大家委員也知道就是我們有一個房地合一稅如果我們是對自住房屋有優惠喔你呢持有6年以上然後你一直自住你有400萬的免稅額然後你又可以適用10%的稅率但是對於這些房東來講他就沒有這個優惠 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7907.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7930.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
他會變成說他所有這個交易的所得全部都要課稅而且可能適用的稅率大概最高可能到45 45 35或者是20所以我們那時候跟內政部討論就覺得說也許我們可以在這個交易階段他們非常介意的就是說我出租一段時間以後假設有一天我要賣掉這個房子的時候我可不可以也有一些優惠 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7930.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7954.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
然後讓我有點誘因那我就變成說我持續出租我是一個好房東我也願意就是加來教育的時候我們他也不會使用那麼重的稅這樣的話也許我們就可以對他們鼓勵他們願意把這個房屋提供出來做出租使用市長我想請教一下就是你剛講的大概就是針對高所的他可能有很多房屋所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7955.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7981.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
他的這個我們這個租金的免稅提高他可能誘因不足嘛但是呢針對如果不是有這麼高所的人他可能就是一個房子出租對他來說可能誘因就很大而且剛剛剛剛署長有提到說這個這是有可能房東是會因為我們免稅提高之後增加提高對提高房租嘛可是這是一個供需的問題啊就說你提高人家也不見得會租啊因為我別的地方只有一萬五 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7981.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7994.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
那他因為這樣提高兩樓人家也不見得會租這本來就供需的問題所以我的意思是說這個部分的話我們應該是要去看說所有各個族群我們都要考量到而不是只是針對高所得族群 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7999.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
8012.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
所以我跟委員報告就是說我們為什麼用附帶決議並同那個一起檢討就是因為說的確有委員所談的這種落差那我也跟委員報告就是說北北基桃的狀況包括新竹的狀況應該是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
8014.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
8029.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
即使他是一戶房東讓他出租但是基本上他的房價還是高的所以對他們來講最好的誘因就是如同我們剛才財務部理事長所提到的其實還是在交易的時候給他誘因會比較高 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
8029.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
8047.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
那对中南部来讲对中南部来讲就是说当然委员谈的是事实就是说你开那个价格不一定有人会租但是我们也要理解就是说它有可能会变成是某种定锚甚至是连锁的效果就是说我变成是某种联合涨价 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
8048.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
8073.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
因為我政府告訴人家你的毛你的高標是在這裡所以我就逐步逐步往上調升如果大家的每一個房東都這樣因為在台灣的房東都是像別人看齊的都是像別人看齊所以某一個人調升了你不代表這個會調降是別人也跟著往上調所以我們會比較建議說我們透過附帶決議的方式然後我們共同來討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
8075.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
8092.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
我們原則上也是跟委員一樣的心情就是說我們希望讓更多的人成為我們的公益出租人然後讓市場的提供量更高甚至我們會希望說這些房子主要優先提供給青年婚育宅 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
8093.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
8109.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
好那這樣子的話我們就是也保障這些房東他們還有年輕人他們在一些比較好的區塊裡面能夠有比較好的一些生活條件跟物件這樣子大家就是互蒙其利這樣子這是我們目前的想法麥議員好主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
8118.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
8132.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
針對財政部說那個衡平性及稅優因已經足夠反對就是提高住宅法的第23條的社會住宅包住代管的租金免稅 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
8134.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
8153.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
我認為就是論述在制度還有時序的政策一致性及數據適用上是有明顯不足啦首先就是說很平行而言現在房東租金所得稅額度18萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
8156.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
8162.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
以房客租金的支出特別扣除額就是18萬元看也就是對等但是實際就是忽略了制度的演進就是房東免稅額度早在110年就已經調高了但是房客扣除額直到112年底所得 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
8183.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
8206.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
稅修法後才調升在2010年度提高房東的稅時所以政府並未同步檢討房客的負擔而是在2012年調升了房客扣除的時候財政部未以 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
8207.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
8219.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
横平性作為支持理由顯示原則並非一貫的政策立場而是選擇性用於反對的修法其實財政部在以87%的房東不用繳稅作為反對調整的依據 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
8229.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
8235.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
就是混淆不同的政策工具以適用的對象就是針對這個數據章以所有的公益租人的一併計算其中大量屬於租金補貼的案件 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
8247.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
8250.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
該類的案件也不以合法租宅為前提租金水準也本就比較偏低無法反映包租或貸款的制度下房東實質的稅負 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
8266.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
8283.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
以財政部有提供的資料顯示實際參與社會租宅包租代管的房東中人員約有三分之一需要繳稅租金的所得稅所以呢這負擔實際影響於參與的醫院若以調整平均數據 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
8290.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
8317.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
就是針對包租代管的制度調整制度的必要性所以這樣導致政策就是判斷的失真因為大家都假設假設這個假設那個這是我們的實際這個就是財政部提供的所以我們社會住宅包租代管要求房東提供合法安全住宅並承擔就是比較高的公益責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
8318.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
8346.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
所以本來就是應有的相對精準的稅制優因對適度調整租宅法第23條不是錯誤的信息或者導致就是一致我們的政策要一致性與有效的治理必要的修正因為剛才都是假設這個假設那個或者怎麼樣但是我們覺得說 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
8347.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
8371.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
怎麼樣去真真的如果說大家都調整那個那個稅金不是幽陰的話之前的調整1.5也是幽陰嘛才會才會更多的嘛現在調整也是幽陰啊這個就像我們的習委員說的沒有那麼多房子不知道那個原因但是這個是增加1萬5的這個要 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
8376.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
8382.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
包租的人一定會掙扎的我們是覺得一定要掙扎的所以這個部分我們是堅持 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
8386.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
8410.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
然後這個簡單來說是這樣就是說現行的機制大家齊頭式的共同優惠的結果就是大家選擇代管不選擇包租現在我們遇到的問題是這個那因為代管彈性比較大比較方便然後所以大家就去代管可是包租比較容易確保居住正義因為它時間比較長量體比較大比較穩定它比較貼近譬如說像政府興建的社會住宅有長租等等的條件 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
8411.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
8417.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
那現在我們的問題核心是我如何讓大家比較願意去走包租這一條路嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
8419.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
8444.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
所以我們推動修法一定是有政策目的嘛我們希望能夠有效導引嘛其實不外乎就是如此那中間他可能會有碎損可能會有一些狀況我覺得那個也要綜合評估啊因為你的房東今天要去選擇更好的誘因有可能卸為調檔主義他要付出的代價就是我必須要給你藏豬給你包豬去配合那個相對不彈性的機制嘛但我覺得如果這個數字可以拉上來對於居住生意的推動是有幫助的啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
8444.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
8450.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
所以我覺得我建議是這樣啦如果大家很擔心那不然就分級嘛我剛剛擬出來的條文是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
8453.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
8477.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
陳租民間住宅並轉租者就是走包租這一軌的這個每個月新台幣兩萬五千塊租賃期限兩年以上待維管理者也就是我們都希望他長期穩定嘛所以兩年以上待管者一萬五千塊就是現行制度如果未滿兩年待維管理者一萬塊就乾脆給他分得清楚一點然後我們再來看看效果這是本期剛剛寫出來的修正東西大家可以思考因為現在版本一大堆嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
8478.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
8497.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
好不好那我們就討論一下但我覺得要圍繞著一個重點是怎麼樣讓更多人願意去選擇包租就只有要完成這個目標大家比較容易達成共識啦如果說結論是都不要那他的本質問題不會解決嘛就是大家還是會選擇貸款而不選擇包租嘛我覺得這個問題要能夠解決才比較有機會達成共識以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
8502.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
8529.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
不如你們這邊回應我首先跟各位委員說明我們現在分發了一份資料給各位委員參考就是說我們現在全國各地的租金大概平均大概都不會超過15,000所以如果說我們拿15,000作為一個租金的那個就是稅率的優惠其實是還算合理你把它調高了就是會有我們剛才所擔憂的事情這是第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
8530.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8558.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
那第二個剛才牛委員所提到的就是說我們是不是把它區隔就是說讓包租貸款業者就包租業者他會包租的房東他會有更多的誘因這個我是覺得我們目前希望提供包租的最主要的關鍵應該也不是稅的問題他是有其他的就是說他在住宅上處理的使用的考量所以這也是為什麼我們會用其他的稅的方式來做誘因而不是所得稅的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8560.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8587.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
應該這麼說啦就是說你看現在那個已經到1萬5也就是在大多數地區都已經低於這個數字但是貸款的比例並沒有因此而提高也就我都已經滿足了我的租金我現在的租金都已經滿足了我還是沒有提高所以其實關鍵是在於說這個不是他能不能提升包租的一個你就會發現他不是一個提升包租的唯一的誘因啦他其實說穿了 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8588.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8594.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
房東都是怕我覺得剛好明年房地產漲了我想賣 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8595.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8620.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
所以我觀望他其實心裡都在觀望這件事情這其實現在是最大的問題這也是我們那時候租賃專法在提我們現在在提那個租賃期要拉長外界那個房東協會那邊就反彈其實道理是關鍵其實是在這裡其實關鍵其實是真的在並不是在於說你免稅有去把它提到多高的問題所以才會說那個市場其實要慢慢養 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8621.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8641.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
那我們真的要給他比較好的原因就是說像剛剛我就是已經跟財政部在努力了你如果願意提供尤其你是新成屋你提供出來你賣不掉你提供出來如果牽長一點我可以給你豁免在交易方面的稅恐怕還是他最在意的恐怕這才是房東最在意的我讓你綁個6年 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8643.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8670.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
但是我到時候交易的稅是整個往下降的那可能對他來講那是最大的誘因這樣來提升他可能會相對誘因比較高啦所以這是也給大家做一個參考那我們剛剛有另一個表就是說給大家看全國現在的租金的一個分佈的狀況就會發現其實我們現在的這個免稅的其實已經真的是涵蓋大多數可是並沒有因為這樣包租的比例就提高了所以這個是給大家做一個參考討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8679.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8680.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
內政部說明之後請要委員會意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8685.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8706.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
沒有啦我會建議喔我是真的建議負債決議去討論就是說請我們另外再研議新的這個稅負減免的方式來充斥這個包租也就是說如果未來他是要他是真的希望走交易方面的稅負減免那你就是要只能走包租 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8708.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8723.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
而不是就是牽長時間的包租而不是你只拿出來當公益出准不是而是你就要去那這樣的話其實對政策的推動會比較有實際上的幫助其他會員有沒有意見就照內政部這樣的說法邁政委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8725.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8733.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
所以說稅金不是有因但是現在真的是有因不足就是因為對不對對啊所以就稅對啊我們是換另外一種稅不是說這個稅 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8740.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8757.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
不是每 你像你們說的要賣 也不一定每一個人都要賣啊對不對 所以說要租對不對 你說不是每一個人都要賣啊所以這個不是對啊 我們內政部拿了13%的稅不用調 但是這個把就是補的數據就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8759.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8785.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
移花接木啦所以不管是報租還是代管其實就是有57%的租金已經超過就是免稅額所以誘因不足是事實嘛不是報租租金超過的免稅額房東要補稅當然是要保基代管嘛所以這個就是很多的人反對是這一塊嘛是真真的是最大的誘因啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8788.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8803.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
市長我想 現在謝謝麥委員在提供意見但是基本上因為我們大家都知道我們所有的人全國的民眾都一樣有所得就是應該要繳稅但是你所得要繳多少的稅那當然看你這個今天所得來源是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8804.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8821.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
那今天住宅法裡面就是對於就是說房東願意把他的房屋拿出來做不管他做公益出租人或者是說他願意把房屋試出來做包租代管我們就是在住宅法裡面提供了一些租稅的減免讓這些房東他的所得能夠降低然後他的稅負減輕 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8823.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8836.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
但是他稅負減輕並不表示他可以完全不用繳稅因為完全不用繳稅這件事情對一般的社會大眾來講你是有房東又是出租的人你有所得你為什麼可以不用完全不用繳稅其實這是不太橫貧的所以我們才覺得說我們這個免稅額度還是要維持一個適度的免稅額那讓這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8844.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8872.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
今天有所得就該繳稅這件事情起碼在所有不同所得來源的人之間彼此之間對政府或者是對這個社會都有一些租稅上的貢獻當然我們給了誘因以後他可能真的所得偏低就像剛才內政部提供出來的目前全國的租金所得幾乎都在一萬五以下大概只有少數的人剛才委員也提供意見了就是說我們有提供一個統計資料大概只有13%的人他是要繳稅的 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8873.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8876.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
但是他的金額多少呢經過我們統計呢其實他每年大概只要繳三千多塊而已其實真的是相對來講對我們一般其他所得者薪資所得者或者是說我是一個房客我今天全租這個房屋的人來講其實會有一個社會觀感不公平的現象啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8892.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8905.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
所以我們還是覺得提供租稅優惠還是要適度所以我們是建議說是不是可以參考我們跟內政部研議的這個初女的附帶決議給我們一點時間然後我們將來呢會來考慮這個免稅額是不是應該適度的調整然後呢我們也問一下就是房東他真正想要的租稅優惠是什麼讓他們做一些統計然後我們在未來的租賃專法裡面我們會提供 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8920.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8948.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
更符合房東需求的付稅優惠以上的說明其實我們這一條不好意思我補充一下我聽來聽去我是真的覺得財政部他們說的有道理你免稅 你只有所得稅什麼我覺得每個人不一樣每個人的級距也不一樣財政部這個是看得到吃得到你如果只有這個所得稅免稅有的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8949.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8969.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
他也不願意因為如果高所得的人他可能會因為這樣他反而睡覺更多那有的人他也更不在乎這些你根本沒有辦法讓這個比如說新漁屋或什麼能夠釋放出來我覺得誘因不夠反而財政部的這一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8970.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8981.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
直接讓他知道他就可以豁免多少的稅我覺得這個是反而是更大的誘因所以我覺得大家可以思考一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8984.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
9008.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
好徐政委員其實我想這個部分我們現在著眼的是說房東願不願意把這個房子交出來解決我們這個房源不足的問題那剛剛提到這些稅賦優惠好像比較著重是在交易的時候會有稅賦優惠可是我們都知道至少在台北我知道很多人根本就不願意賣房子因為他很預期他的房屋會一直不斷的上漲所以他寧可租他也不願意賣 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
9009.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
9024.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
所以如果你沒有一些稅負的優惠的話他其實基本上他可能為什麼其實很多黑數就是反正我在租的時候我就告訴你你不要給我那種包租貸款我也不要去申請租金優惠否則我就不租給你這是現在現行的一些問題的存在 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
9026.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
9041.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
那我們要怎麼去解決現行問題照顧真正需要租房子的人我覺得這是我們修這條主要的原因而不是說針對你說交易的時候他們有什麼樣子的優惠那當然是另外一件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
9042.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
9059.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
了解其實我們現在不是只有所得稅上面給他優惠大家也知道我們房屋稅條例去年開始實施就是囤房稅新制對於如果房東願意把他的房屋提供出來出租使用的話他其實他的稅率會比一般的房 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
9059.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
9085.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
因為一般的持有房屋的稅還輕所以我們現在也在鼓勵所有的民眾說你如果有多餘的房屋你就提供出來使用那你適用的房屋稅會比較優惠而且我們住宅法裡面其實也有提供相關譬如說做社會住宅做公益出租你還有房屋稅地價稅上面的優惠所以不是只有所得稅的優惠我們等於是基本上在各稅務都有提供相關的優惠所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
9087.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
9104.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
房屋稅條例2.0也是為了要鼓勵鼓勵房東願意把他的房屋提供出租所以一般的人可能適用到3.8的稅率但是他可能只要2.4的稅率其實相對是優惠的這個部分我們也在去年實施以後我們也發現很多的房客 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
9105.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
9127.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
他就去登記變成公益出租人他就是願意去變成社會住宅的出租人增加了將近快10萬戶的納稅一人把他的房屋釋出來做使用所以我們會並同整體來考慮那這個部分就是其中一個環節那我們綜合性還是大家在各個不同的角度會提供各個不同稅率的優惠那以上再跟委員報告 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
9128.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
9137.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
那既然剛剛財政部提到的這是其中一個環節那財政部之所以針對這個部分不願意把所得稅提高的主要原因是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
9139.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
9164.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
因為大家都會覺得有所得就應該要繳稅那如果說你今天房東今天所有的房東租金在三萬塊錢以下都完全免稅的話以剛才內政部提供的這個統計資料就會發現他完全不需要繳稅完全不需要繳稅這個對一般民眾來講會覺得你是一個持有房屋的人你賺的是不用你賺的我們講的是被動所得 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
9164.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
9180.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
就是你不用不像我們薪資所得者你每一塊錢非常努力的工作你都要繳稅這會給社會觀感有另外一種不同的觀感其實會有一種租稅不公平的觀感所以我們才覺得說我們要提供租稅優惠但是適度適度的優惠 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
9180.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
9205.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
那我們也會在並同那你覺得那多少才是我們現在是覺得應該是跟公益出租人可能跟第15條一起平衡考慮那我們大家一起來讓我們跟內政部財政部進一步的研議我們因為我們研議的內容不是只有說未來那個租賃專法裡面提供交易階段我們這邊有講到它的免稅額度所以我們建議是不是可以用附帶決議方式讓我們並同15條 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
9207.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
9217.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
跟二三條一起做同樣的處理這樣讓我們進一步研議以上說好 那個我們先讓李柏惟那麥政委員麥政委員謝謝剛才你們都有說 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
9223.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
9241.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
一般人我們都是要鼓勵大家把房子要要出租這樣子的話才有有一些的有因我們沒有說全部免稅所以你說一般都有這樣子的鼓勵所以呢我們現在談的就是包租跟代管 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
9242.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
9259.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
不一樣的幽陰讓人家才要願意把這個房子來做包租所以我們就是要有這樣的比例要有這樣的幽陰才要提出這樣子的修法嘛對不對所以你講的很多就是所有的幽陰大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
9261.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
9280.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
社會住宅不足才會提出誘因讓大家設出讓成為社會住宅嘛對不對所以一般的租屋也很多啊人家為什麼不納入社會住宅呢所以因為有誘因才要更提高有誘因才要分別不同 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
9281.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
9291.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
包租跟代管分別不同明明確確的就是這樣子的稅務這樣是不是大家就會更明確來去來知道說我有這樣子的包租我就可以就是免稅額就提高到3萬不是說他完全不用繳稅沒有啊我們就是要因為他租多少我們也不知道啊你怎麼知道說他哪一個前部不用繳稅哪一個要繳稅呢我們要 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
9310.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
9326.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
把兩個要分清楚才要更多的房東願意包租不要就是只是代管所以我們的目的就是要有這樣子的分別優因才能達到你們想要的社會租宅的數額對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
9334.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
9360.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
蓋的來不及請大家來去做包租代管來才能達到你們說的要的社會主宰總統說的掙扎多少掙扎多少不是蓋新的就鼓勵大家來做這個社會主宰鼓勵的社會主宰我們要分不同的類別才能達到這樣的照顧弱勢族群所以我們是講得很清楚是這樣以上謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
9365.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9371.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
我覺得剛剛那個財政部講的有一點我想要修正一下就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9380.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9405.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
怎麼樣讓房東他願意把這個免稅他對免稅的額度的想法是什麼其實我們的方向上我們很擔心這個免稅額度提高以後房東就認為他的天花板在那裡逐步往上調這是我們最擔心的所以我們擔心的是房客的部分會不會因為這個調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9407.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9414.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
反而被漲房租這個是我們要特別注意的地方因為我上個禮拜在問這一題的時候也跟財政部這邊有問過從109年到現在調整一次從1萬調整到1萬5中間發生了什麼事情中間發生了租屋補貼 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9423.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9450.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
中間發生了租屋補貼所以你現在房東申報或者是房客申報這些稅金的數字其實也在變動中不是因為這一次的調整所以我們做了這個附帶決議是希望可以滾動式的來調整這個額度但是原則上就是不要讓房東認為提高了這個免稅的額度他就是可以慢慢的提高這個租金這是我們最不樂見的以上 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9454.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9483.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
當然那個劉許庭委員在補充說明我們看這一條卡了非常久的一段時間嘛因為我們剛講嘛這一題其實是19-1 23-52嘛那你剛剛提供了一份當然這是租屋補貼可以提供的眼下的數據所以你認為說租屋稅的優惠不見得夠大那我建議是這樣52條我們要不要也討論一下因為52條談的是政府補貼的優惠那有沒有辦法在這兩條裡面找到一個平衡然後大家協商出一個圓滿的結果我覺得可以思考 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9485.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9499.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
剛剛52條我們已經先跟內政部問過了實務上現在政府給包租的補貼的金額大概是貸款的1.8倍也就是說現在是給包租是比貸款多1.8倍但是1.8倍的結果就是不太好 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9500.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9516.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
那現在民眾黨提的版本是兩倍那我就要不要再高一點比如說2.5倍或怎麼樣然後大家聚焦在補助我大力支持包租嘛然後看看效果如何然後再回來跟23條一併做討論我丟一個這樣的方向大家思考一下可不可以以上好 那個這部分要不要先大家先休息協商一下那3條之後會討論好不好先去睡覺 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9530.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9536.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
請問如果有問題 請問關鍵人員來休息的時間先透露一下主要經常來謝謝資料都拿 那個有要補充的資料拿過來 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9644.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9654.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
他都變大了 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
10234.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
10239.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
市長跟那個修正的內容你這是十五的嗎十五跟三一系列 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
10327.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
10335.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
好我們繼續會議的進行那就剛才討論在23條跟52條部分23條我們是這意見是保留以附帶決議的方式來通過維持現行條文然後以那個OK |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
10356.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
10382.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
OK那這個部分是不是我們內政部來再說明一下23跟52我們在經過剛剛討論之後的決議請內政部來那個主席我覺得也不用聽他們在說了啦反正我們剛剛大家協商的結果就是23條就不處理了52條就用再修正動議大家都簽名了這個版本在這樣處理了他們不用再說了好那52條的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
10388.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
10411.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
23跟52我們就是按照23條保留不修正23條不修正好23條維持現行條文那52條在修正通一通過那這部分其他如果沒意見我們就繼續往下走了接下來是在 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
10414.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
10415.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
21至1條 遵定21條之1這個部分21之1來吧那一條 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
10438.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
10452.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
所以我們就是用橫左了啦這樣會比較既然用橫左就不能得啦你又得又橫左就不用做了對不對不行啦陰橫左啦一定要陰啦然後我們之前有討論過一個版本我找一下資料太多了 談太久了對啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
10469.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
10492.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
21-1嘛對不對跳來跳去我跟你講因為19 20我們已經不處理了所以這個一定要把它寫進去嘛也就是涉宅的土地儲備機制嘛不能沒有任何進展啦沒錯所以你如果還在得或什麼我是不能接受啦如果看看怎麼樣來做處理好不是啊他如果是陰影都不可以接受啊陰橫左啊因為橫左這樣就好啦好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
10497.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
10502.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
保留一下我資料還沒找到先別調啦資料還沒找 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
10521.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
10529.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
等一下我至少要把一個版本完整的唸出來嘛對不對但是你要給我一點時間找我們先請求召委先討論一下別條好我們47吧好那我們就來討論47條喔47條不是不是不是這個我自己 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
10558.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
10581.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
來第47條部分來47條各位有沒有意見第47條現在修正委員會 修正版委員會在這邊有徐欣委員 高晉修委員黃婕穩也有 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
10592.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
10609.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
讓市長說明一下各位委員報告這一條大家主要是著重希望去強化一個租屋資訊的透明化那這個部分的話我們之前其實已經依照委員的提案就租金補貼的部分去做一個定期的租金的分析 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
10609.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
10629.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
那我們現在主要是把它的一個物件形態例如它是套房整成還是分出的形態還有它的屋齡然後還有它的價格資訊以中位數的方式統計之後那每年會公布兩期那這個部分的話我們就是把它寫成再修正的條文給修正動議的條文給委員做一個參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
10647.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
10676.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
我們內政部說明之後我們在第47條修正條文各位委員會見77條來 張路緯我是覺得啦他47條的修正條文內政部的這樣他已經增加了蠻多我們所要的目標應該也都在裡面了啦我是建議如果大家沒有意見就用內政部的這個修正條文通過啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
10682.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
10683.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
來47條其他有沒有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
10695.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
10725.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
對我們是跟我們是差不多沒有意見啊但是說一年只有更新兩次我覺得是太少剛才你們都有說了嘛很多資訊一直登記登記如果一年只有兩次你們怎麼樣去掌握更新的資訊呢是不是最少一記一次就一年四次這樣子的話我覺得資訊更讓大家透明也讓大家就你們也掌握大家的資訊也更 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
10725.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
10747.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
更有更新的掌握到這樣子以上 謝謝跟委員報告一下 相應的兩次等一下好不好 一起回應可以嗎開始了 謝謝我想請教一下我有看到我們這個修正的版本跟本席修正的差一點點所以我想了解那本席是說這個不同物件的形態 屋齡 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
10748.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
10762.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
知每坪平均数与中位数价格资讯我们修正的是等价格资讯最后会提供怎么样的资讯还有这样子的写法让我了解一下谢谢 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
10767.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
10788.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
來 內政部市長這邊先回應先回應一下統計的期數我們現在是每年的1月跟7月因為剛好是學生的歡呼潮也可能有些畢業的新踏入社會的要在7月找房子所以1月跟7月是我們現在設定就一年兩次 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
10789.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
10809.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
那我們大概也看那一個一年四次的話其實因為租金價格的變動幅度沒有那麼大所以我們當初是符合大家的需求那也考量到一個市場的變動的情形所以我們是評估一年兩次就OK這是第一個那第二個單價的部分的話因為我們也跟業界這邊有做過討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
10811.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
10840.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
那因為大家其實現在租房子都care是租金的總額那對於租金的單價其實大家在租住宅型的房屋的時候都不是用單價來計價所以公布這個資訊的部分的話其實在實際的需求性不高而且因為每個物件的他有沒有相關的設施單價其實變那個會影響蠻大的所以單價資訊進來可能也會影響到可能在民眾的判斷上面可能會有一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
10841.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
10847.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
一些會有一些影響所以我們現在的話都是用總價就租金的總價的部分來做一個分析 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
10853.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
10872.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
不好意思啊因為我們覺得是說這個系統花了就是百億元來去做建置這樣子的話我覺得一季來去系統更新我覺得是對啊所以我覺得是說這樣子的屋齡啊這個房屋的那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
10873.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
10897.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
形狀啊或者是坪數來去更改不只是租金的更改啦如果是因為這個是系統變更來去用的而已不是有很多很困難嗎那個系統的部分的話現在的租金資料統計都是我們統計處自己同仁來做分析所以是沒有額外花錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
10898.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
10917.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
那第二個部分的話委員講到花了百億應該是說這個租金補貼的部分現在政府已經花了多少很多的錢在裡面是不是對補助那是補助給房客那我們為了讓這個租金補貼效應更大所以我們才來做租金補貼的一個租金的分析讓大家知道那個相關的資訊這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
10918.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
10942.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
但是系統就是我們也要更新的話如果是同仁真心也是每一季去更新一次我覺得也沒有那麼困難吧對不對因為那個系統本來你們就有了嘛所以說要去更新我覺得是對大家比較資訊因為現在的資訊比較比較發達的話我們要一季一次我覺得一年就兩次真的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
10944.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
10961.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
因為有很多人的反應就是對啊因為像剛才說的資訊有時候登記普遍你們也沒辦法去掌握對不對我們要租的人我們也是一樣就是變成更新就一年兩次最多兩次我覺得沒有那麼嚴重吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
10964.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
10993.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
是這樣因為我們現在一般的租約就是一年一月一年一月那學生才會有一年兩月的狀況大致上不太會有那種短租三個月就一月三個月應該這種數量是非常少所以當時才會用一年一次後來因為學生要調查學生住院才變一年兩次是這個意思所以其實在切系的時候你大概遇到的大多數的數據都應該都是一致的是這個意思 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
10997.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
11018.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
所以針對已經租的人想要租的人就不用是這樣嗎因為租不是一年一次對啊 但是說這個資訊不只是針對已租的人想要租的人隨時都有這不是嗎對 也就是那個租約是那個租金行情就是在那裡那一年內那個租金行情就是在那裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
11019.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
11039.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
是這個意思那學生是因為他是一年兩期他有可能兩次的時候中間會有一點變動所以後來才增加成兩次期是因應學生因為學生一次簽半年所以半年後是有可能我知道你說的就是以租跟需求的量但是平常也很多嘛所以說希望四次是這樣子的意思而已啦你講的是針對就是說學生的兩期的需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
11047.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
11048.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
還有就是要簽約的時間已經簽的人但是我講的是說除了這個還有是說每天在變動每天想要租的人也是這個資訊我的意思是這樣子的就全面性的考量不只是 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
11063.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
11090.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
有人那個條文裡面沒有訂到那麼細的頻率那頻率我們自己會我們內政部也會持續來做一個精進包含到頻率或者是一個揭示的方式因為有些會覺得是不是有一些平台或怎麼樣那個我們會持續來做一個精進那個大方向來做這個分析我們內政部已經訂到條文這邊我們會來做好 謝謝因為是資訊所以我們希望就是更多人可以享受到這樣子以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
11091.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
11110.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
謝謝 那在47條部分你會請提問員那個當初有一個差別嘛第一個就是說我覺得這一條修正有兩個重點第一個就是說到底要揭露哪些東西嘛物件型態嘛然後你們內政部壓力很大的是就是接近實價登錄的每坪平均數嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
11111.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
11136.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
你們是不願意放的嘛然後但中位數還OK這是我一個想法那另外一個本來民眾黨提案 其他人提案另外一個除了租金補貼嘛就是9條1項3款 您優先處理但還有包租貸款啊也就是19條1項6款你要不要寫進去因為我是覺得租金補貼你都願意做更進一步的分析跟公佈了沒有道理包租貸款不處理嘛對不對我先問一下這個事 我們先處理一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
11139.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
11162.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
跟委員報告 其實那個包租貸款已經都包含在租金補貼的項目裡面了所以我們用租金補貼的這個部分來對 總數是一致的他都可以申請 實務上他都會申請主婦你的意思是這樣喔好那我希望看 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
11164.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
11192.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
你現在如果這一條可以有效修正搞不好連我們剛剛講第十條那些問題可能都會解決好 那我現在提我的想法啦你現在公布的是四分位嘛就是說25% 50% 75%那民團還有大家其實普遍希望做到最後的實價登錄應該是每一筆都可以查嘛好 那中間有沒有再精進的空間比如說明確的把它變十分位每十%一個級距嘛它是不是比現在的四分位數更加透明 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
11193.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
11215.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
但是他也沒有細到每一戶都可以公佈這樣子的一個方向你們能不能接受我們就是逐步透明化的方式來處理但是要明確的來入法我拋一個這樣的方向大家思考一下以上八萬委員那個持續精進的部分來做包含到我們現在是做四分位數那之後要不要用比較細的部分我覺得可以用附帶決議的部分來建議一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
11216.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
11238.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
沒有 因為我跟委員報告其實現在大家會比較希望知道是距離就像我在學校我在學校想要知道是一定距離裡面的一個租金的行情所以我們現在反而是應該現在內政部在做是要做一個平台就是一定的點裡面的話大概一定距離裡面的一個租金行情這樣的話反而會稱考性會更高一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
11240.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
11263.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
你如果用負債決議當然就沒意思了因為本來我講嘛不管是民團或關注的時候都是希望百分之百的透明化直接入法嘛這是大家本來的期待嘛那今天你如果要說服大家說希望用共識的方式來處理那是不是至少也在這些地方你要有明確的說法你如果只是負債決議負債決議可多咧對不對但是到最後有沒有真的被落實其實大家心裡都很大一個問號嘛對不對所以我是覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
11263.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
11274.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
如果這一條要能夠討論出一個結果然後順便解決前面第10條跟57-1的問題的話那這部分就要寫得明確而且這個明確大家要可以接受好不好我們花一點時間討論一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
11281.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
11285.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
現在十分為數可能有點太細了真的我們就用圖台的方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
11298.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
11313.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
這個部分我們先來做圖台圖台的話系統的部分因為Data的資料在那邊他其實要用四分位數十分位數都OK所以我們現在的部分條文的部分的話我們就資料都有你要公佈多少而已對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
11319.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
11342.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
對 要切到什麼樣程度只是我們對外公佈如果切到那麼細其實反而有時候會混淆到民眾會不知道然後再來就是說有些資料我們規定我剛才跟委員報告過就是說評數啊什麼這個東西是大家在憑感覺認定的他們有一個實質丈量的 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
11342.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
11359.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
所以我們如果公佈得太細就會造成就是說大家在認知上或填寫上的錯誤啦所以我們是建議說就目前有的資料我們先做處理啦那未來我們再做進一步的修正就是資料母體更多的時候我們再來做修正討論這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
11366.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
11392.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
委員這是不是建議就下個那個決議就是說我們以後再做一個系統的一個分析的時候那是不是可以用比較細的一個區間的資料或是距離比較細的資料來讓資料的部分更精緻這樣你現在本來就有系統了我現在講的是說如果這個地方大家有共識我們第10條跟57之一是可以不用討論的喔阿不然這樣子的話我第10條我可能就要兼職了你們考慮一下嘛對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
11396.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
11425.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
委員這樣的話因為我們是寫價格資訊嘛那就要寫得明確一點嘛好 大家研究一下看怎麼寫啦好 就是透明化的部分把它明確的寫出透明到什麼程度嘛那以後大家要去檢討透明化我們就聚焦在47條是不是 這樣是不是以後也方便因為你們希望的是可以一步一步來做嘛好啦 保留這一條研究一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
11426.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
11437.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
我們回21-1好不好我找到了47條部分那個待會你們在內政部這邊在討論那個可以公佈到多細的部分那接下來我們來討論那個21-1OK |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
11448.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
11459.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
是去保留 然後現在我們來回到我們在討論我們在討論那個21 增訂21條之一縣市政府 縣市政府主管機關 你現在同級怪怪的對啊 因為他是度假擬定機關 他最清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
11471.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
11480.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
應該是縣市政府 縣市政府應該是縣市政府對啦 疾管那版本還OK啦 我就覺得還OK啦照他們的比較好啦對啊不是啊 讓劉委員量一下他也跟你也差不多啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
11497.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
11497.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
對阿 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
11515.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
11516.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
我都不會說 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
11544.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
11544.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
11563.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
11566.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
好 交換花樣興趣 呵呵呵會上會上 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
11583.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
11586.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
你現在說匯商嘛對不對?他不能匯同嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
11604.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
11625.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
會同不一定會有會商反而會會商才是討論會商裡面可以不曉得他們討論嗎不會啊 不會會商就一定要討論會同都要討論我説明一下現在大多數的都市計畫應該說99%以上的都市計畫都是限制之下是限制政府所以他自己就應該內部要有一個共識 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
11626.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
11644.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
那他們剛剛原來講的是說擔心的是中央進行的路易計畫但是我們實際上本來就在做的時候都是要找地方政府我們不敢自己做不找地方政府為什麼 因為後面遇到建管還是地方在執行我們也不能不找他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
11670.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
11673.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
來我們現在回到來現在先 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
11690.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
11700.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
嗯你不寫詞了,為何要去寫啊?你要寫就寫進去啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
11705.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
11725.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
你現在選不同分位 你照公司分位我可以拿出來比較好對啦 對 這樣OK OK 歪壓吧 歪壓吧不是我歪壓啦 不是你歪壓啦我叫他去歪壓啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
11729.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
11747.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
市長 市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
11751.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
11769.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
你要嘛是47條有沒有 就把它寫得很明確 比如說它幾崗位或什麼東西要嘛就第10條 因為我覺得第10條你這個其實只是叫你先做統整而已你這個有一定要登錄嗎 第10條 我說這幾條是一起看的嗎對 這一條是不用登錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
11773.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
11783.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
這是你們的現有資料公佈 投資貸款 豬補貼 現有資料公佈成十分位這是一種邏輯 另外一種是這個是豬補的實價登錄你們要哪一種其實就這一種就好了 這樣比較快而且我們是直接公佈你公佈十分位 你切得太細民眾看不清楚 因為我們現在四分位數 民眾就只會看中位數 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
11799.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
11823.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
你切到十分位 幼高 高級 租金在比較的時候就會出現問題因為現在像小學生 學生們去大學附近去廚房 它也是反考這個那學生的租屋的狀況 它有太多複雜所以用四分位或五分位的方式會比較有那個因為像我們切四分位就是其實五個數字 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
11824.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
11836.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
那基本上他已經符合了中位跟前後的你可能10 20 30的數字都會很接近你切到10就會很接近因為他們的租金反而就不會很高會很接近或者10是1萬520也是1萬530也是1萬5 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
11841.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
11844.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
如果從統計上面來講,你把它切得很細 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
11857.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
11867.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
最後變成六十七十八十都一樣的價錢因為整個一個他的一個所以我會覺得說用距離我們另外會做距離要不然要不然這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
11882.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
11904.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
你先看一下第十條你們現在第十條的狀況是什麼疑慮是什麼我回過頭來 我們就一次拔除一半剩下協商是拔除一半因為實價登錄主補直接轉實價登錄是第一個單位因為我們現在資料單位非常簡單所以你要多填的話第一個房客就會要多填第二個填的就是錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
11905.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
11913.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
到時候又被處罰所以反而會到時候是訪客民眾來罵政府說你為什麼把這個東西弄那麼複雜所以我們會說既然我們現在已經填了資料我們還做分析 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
11925.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
11926.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
法定人數不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
11937.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
11956.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
跟委員報告這個如果要成豬人要那個成豬人來施加登錄那以後就是他在登記的時候就很困難那很困難的結果他就是不來申請豬骨或者是他就是變成不來豬骨他就是到 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
11959.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
11965.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
這個體制外 那就不是我們現在所謂的一個方向很細 因為連到它的坪數到底有多少面積 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
11977.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
11995.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
然後到最簡單的歌曲你到底是套房還是整層其實我們現在在統計資料裡面就搞不清楚尤其學生根本就搞不清楚我是租什麼是雅房什麼是套房他根本就搞不清楚現在連不動產的教育 代書 地政司都還會填說被地所處罰 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
12003.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
12013.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
主顧處理 先不要一次我們今天弄掉幾條4311先不處理嘛 41留在委員會嘛然後 491 23 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
12028.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
12041.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
我們中間還是討論 我沒有講說一定到最後還是折一啦委員就直接用這一個 然後10跟那個罰則就不處理那一個部分你現在一時半刻也沒有一個好的結論沒關係 我覺得這幾條 我們租賃的這兩條我們在協商的時候處理完我們會把它處理完 協商出一個結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
12054.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
12061.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
好不好 18條也是一樣嘛18條那登記平台也是一樣 一時半刻想不出一個結果第四條也是一樣嘛 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
12072.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
12078.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
我們上次讓很多人 我知道我們其他東西已經很實務了啦對不對 有些要實務 有些要進步 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
12088.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
12090.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
其實是三個題目嘛對啦 三個題目 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
12114.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
12115.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
還有一個登記平台好吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
12132.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
12155.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
我覺得保留吧 大家慢慢協商的時候再來談因為我一直擔心民眾他們只要膨脹那個數字膨脹那個數字絕對不能讓他這樣子所以還是要考慮一下嘛 但彼此之間資料再跟我們講另外主委要轉那個登錄 那個真的會我們到底那個數額怎麼抓我們後面協商的時候再來處理 好不好我沒有問題現在是真的這樣 市委或是委員長來 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
12161.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
12172.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
對啊你們再提一些意見啦剩三條而已 三題這裡獨立調比較好而且如果我們今天上次委員會不用寫三題就馬上可以三題了應該不太容易 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
12197.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
12199.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
我們會召會要表大家意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
12207.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
12218.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
在這裡 我覺得有的才九點到現在我認為因為剛才也有校訓學生說了因為我認為這個法修當然是沒有百分之一百的我覺得大家每一個都可以去用但是我認為我們修這個法 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
12233.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
12257.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
主宰法 我覺得我剛才聽到 實在不是因為什麼人理想的啦是因為 我覺得我們的主宰法應該是修了讓大家都適用啦不然修到最後 讓一些完蛋的 很多惡弱的就不好啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
12260.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
12286.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
感謝教委 當然本來修法就代表不一樣的團體 不一樣的聲音我們今天討論的主要是大家想要聽聽那我想接下來我看今天討論看劉旭廷委員這邊我覺得剩下來今天還算不錯啦至少有幾個條文包租代管什麼已經順利達成共識嘛然後涉財土地儲備也算有一點往前走了一小步嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
12287.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
12300.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
所以我覺得但剩下幾條一時半刻應該也講不出個結果啦所以我是建議我是建議我是建議保留結商啦對啊還是你第四條要接受20%第四條接受20%我們也很高興 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
12306.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
12328.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
不是嘛 我們修法的邏輯是只要20%如果申請登記師沒有額滿沒有額滿我就讓你釋出嘛所以這個就沒有六不六度的問題了嘛會滿的就會滿 不會滿的就釋出這樣不就好了嗎你再去區別反而 反而橫生更多問題嘛 對不對違原則 我現在要請教就是說立法例上面寫違原則是要怎麼對啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
12331.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
12340.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
我是寫至少20%嘛但申請時就但例外條款嘛申請時沒有達到20%的剩餘戶數可釋出嘛我的意思是我的寫法是這樣啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
12347.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
12367.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
對啊我我我還是不是我還是跟委員不是不是委員我們我們盡量尋求共識了我我們就是說因為因為這個這個會涉及到的是說不同區域的彈性不夠清楚了因為你你20%會讓很多區域的壓力就變得很大 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
12368.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
12371.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
所以我們才會說10%我們圍下線這樣子來處理這樣子會有比較高的彈性因為我剛剛也跟委員報告就是說這樣子的彈性其實在北三都它就可以擴大這比較沒有什麼問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
12385.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
12402.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
但是在中南部他就可以回到10%內來處理這樣子大家會比較就是說在執行上面讓行政單位比較好做尤其是地方政府在執行的時候所以是不是坑請委員就是可以考量我們這樣子在執行上面比較方便的作業 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
12404.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
12420.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
因為10%當然就是包括20%了所以這沒有什麼太大的問題我們如果說一面一定要談20%這件事情就會造成我們在地方執行上面的困難因為這也造成地方政府的壓力這個還是在拜託委員這邊協助一下這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
12425.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
12437.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
我們能夠提供你寫到20在法律裡面明定的時候就會有執行的壓力啦這個是要跟委員報告就是說我們不是反對20而是說執行率那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
12440.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
12457.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
對啊因為這個就是北山都才會比較有的事情那其他地方就會我們變成說我們大家很努力的整齊設宅蓋設宅然後我們在整個這個抽籤的過程裡面會造成就是說很多抽籤戶他有一些壓力因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
12458.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
12480.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
他中了可是我們跟他講說不好意思我們要優先給那個婚育宅就變成是他要第二波要再來抽一次這個會有一點壓力這個是先跟委員做一個報告也希望委員體諒就是我們賦予我們立法上一點彈性的時候我們在執行上會比較公平一點對北山都來講他不會有差別因為他還是會達到20這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
12489.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
12491.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
17是保留對不對 17保留 52ok |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
12516.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
12534.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
好接下來討論那個增訂57條之一OK進來公司我們就保留了好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
12546.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
12573.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
我們接下來今天我們討論的像第四條保留部分那有沒有其他的意見沒有我們就保留好不好第四條保留那第四條保留增訂第四條之一這部分李博文的意見就是我們就保留 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
12575.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
12589.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
那第十條部分也是保留第十八條也是保留那十九條之一就是修正後通過修正文字後通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
12591.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
12613.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
那21條 增訂21條之一我們也是修正後通過23條我們維持現行條文第47條保留第52條修正後通過那57條之一 增訂57條之一保留那這個部分 今天討論的部分各位有沒有意見沒有沒有意見趕快解釋一下52條52條我們再修正一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
12621.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
12627.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
52條那個因為不得少於2.5倍好像有一點變成鼓勵我們還要再超過 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
12630.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
12653.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
所以看看是不是就我覺得是用2.5先當 先用2.5對 實務上是1.8對 沒有錯沒有沒有沒有 因為現在都講點介紹所以看是不是同一句話 先修到2.5倍好不好 斷完結先用2.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
12655.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
12656.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
副代決議三項 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
12681.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
12707.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
好各位現在我們有三個附帶決議附帶決議第一個沒意見那第二個附帶決議部分有沒有意見第三個附帶決議部分在修正之後有沒有意見如果各位都沒有意見的話我們就通過附帶決議的這個三項 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
12714.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
12716.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
四條四條十條十條十八十八條過了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
12755.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
12755.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
12783.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
12784.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
你要逐步 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
12800.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
12800.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
你可以寫為標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
12824.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
12828.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
為上限因為為標準的話他就是往上往上往下 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
12845.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
12859.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
可是實務上壓力就會在社宅管理單位那裡他這就是社宅那裡有些要交付那裡的客戶如果我說我都把你趕去社宅那這就是來社中央的社宅公司就要勞碰他我趕去那裡說好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
12862.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
12878.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
所以關鍵因為你法庭寫不出這種東西你法庭寫不出這個東西正常來講 都更 都更徵收的案子本來就含出金幣的就是說你的費用跟本來的金額要什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
12913.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
12914.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
我跟你講 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
12915.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
12925.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
一種就是直接寫清楚2.5不要怎麼圍上去因為圍上去他又會擔心我們就故意不到2.5他又會擔心我們故意不到2.5不是啦 我的意思是說就2.5這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
12942.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
12963.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
現在年輕人 代代弱勢都不會去競選可是現在市政府說不可能讓年輕人去競選不可能讓弱勢去競選不可能要讓我們老人家的家庭 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
12964.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
12965.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
好多人 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
12992.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
12993.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
13018.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
13040.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
我今天就想問一下 現在一旦鼓吹一年期我們不是要轉年來都卡住了所以我現在想問一下 現在市長要去哪一關啊?現在那裡卡住了 當初人家很認真 以前在清廢 讓人家搬 所有人都回家了 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
13044.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
13044.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
台湾 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
13072.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
13090.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
響鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
13097.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
13107.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
13126.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
13128.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
谢谢观看 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
13142.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
13166.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
有開刀嗎?沒有,還沒有,就是沒有開刀所以才要把它覆蓋起來應該去看一下,假如它嚴重要開刀比較好看會好沒有,因為我看了他,他就是說你大概有一點裂,然後有點那個就是骨頭之間有一點裂縫然後他建議說用那個,就是固定然後兩個禮拜,讓它自動運用這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
13168.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
13193.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
不然就要開刀腿對 她是覺得應該可以讓她自己可以慢慢癒合只要我不要一直去動她她為什麼會要我固定就是希望你不要一直去用到那個傷口的地方所以用那個用這個主要的原因也是在這個事情這樣也是提醒自己啦對 兩週 要撐兩週比較容易 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
13196.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
13197.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
就是一般都看得到的一般都看得到的 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
13211.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
13229.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
13236.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
13260.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
他們真正在意的是財政部那一件數量不老八卦比起這個比好幾百件我們一件就比好幾百件那我三條大概也要留下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
13275.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
13294.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
我們剛剛講那個給包租跟貸款業主的租金很好了他那個貸款是一萬一萬那現在那個包租是一萬八所以我們只是把它從一萬八變成一萬那你現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
13297.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
13318.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
喔 沒有耶 沒有沒有沒有 這個是所有的因為這個喔 這個不是 這個是給房東的修繕費跟那個保險費這個不是給 對 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
13327.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
13342.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
沒有啊 沒有沒有 稅金 跟稅金有關對啊 一次啊 一次啊 對啊對啊 沒錯啊 求善跟保險啊不會不會不會 那就一次啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
13352.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
13365.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
不是一次就是你包租合約的三年對啊是那就是一年休八千塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
13381.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
13383.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
若是心無苦 也沒有所善 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
13386.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
13408.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
不會啊 其實修繕大概都是中古屋啊中古屋才會有沒有 可是我跟爸爸說現在會拿出來的都是就你真的以正常房子來講 前面不會有修繕修繕都是超過17年是 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
13417.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
13433.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
我跟您報告現在的狀況是現在的狀況是因為中股不好賣所以他們會轉做包袱代理事實上我們本來也是中股對所以中股它的協商會計算所以它是有幫助的對 所以剛才講的是多7000塊沒有啊 1.8倍 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
13451.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
13452.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
沒有啦 本來是1點8點2點 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
13465.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
13485.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
就是2.5除以1.8一個是那個婚禮宅然後我們就再協商對 就是對包租業的那個什麼 租屋市長透明那個我們再討論看什麼因為最主要是要有個認識 獨行的部署很多好 我們再談這個我會跟你們聊天 也要跟你們再談然後要馬上調兩個角色 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
13493.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
13496.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
因為聽說在飛機上面切很細其實也看不出差異啦那個沒有辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
13509.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
13510.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
OK 好 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
13540.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
13551.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
好了 搞定了 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
13556.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
13578.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
因為現在會用到那種錢幾乎都中了部長 務委也會說新屋不會用到那種錢OK 那就是他是希望就部長要我們在那個執法的辦法裡面把它寫得更清楚對 執法把它立定得更清楚那所以修正的方式是什麼我們就趕快讓他們確認了那就是就是把原則沒有沒有要維上線那個要這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
13592.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
13595.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
為2.5倍就好了就為2.5就好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
13610.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
13626.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
我今天不容易,因為很多事情我都沒辦法拿出來。 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
13631.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
13648.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
13669.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
13688.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
好現在請宣讀協商結論住宅法部分條文修正草案等44案協商結論第一條第二條維持現行條文第四條保留增訂第四條之一定期繼續審查第五條第九條維持現行條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
13689.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
13701.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
第10條保留第15條第16條維持現行條文第18條保留第19條維持現行條文增訂第19條之一修正通過第20條維持現行條文增訂第21條之一修正通過第22條第23條第24條第25條第33條第34條第35條第39條第40條 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
13717.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
13737.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
第43條均維持現行條文第47條保留第52條修正通過增訂第5章之一增訂第52條之一增訂第53條之一均不予增訂增訂第57條之一保留通過附帶決議三項宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
13744.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
13771.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
請問各位委員照剛才的協商結論通過請問有無異議無異議通過那主席現在做以下的主席做以下的決議第一我們討論事項所列議案住宅法部分條文修正草案等事實案除第33案另訂其繼續審查外其餘43案均已 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
13773.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
13790.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
並按審查完略你據審查報告提報院會討論 請問在場委員需不需要經過黨團協商好 心虛黨團協商審查通過之條文 條字不想協商啊 只是要尊重 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
13799.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
13823.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
本案與院會討論時由本席做補充說明審查通過之條文 條次引述條文部分文字及相關法之用與授權主席及議事人員整理本次修正之條文行政機關如有補充立法說明會有請競訴送至內政委員會批例納入審查報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
13824.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
13836.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
那這邊主席宣告跟委員會報告本次會議議事錄授權由本席確定請問各位委員有無異議無異議通過本次會議到此結束現在散會 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
13857.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
13858.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
13870.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
13891.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
13903.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
13904.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
要要要要 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
13945.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
13957.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
因為你要不要來我們台灣就好了啦你不用這樣寫送報告但我每六天第幾個都沒打啊那應該OK啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
13960.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
13960.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
谢谢大家 |