| IVOD_ID |
171567 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/171567 |
| 日期 |
2026-10-22 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-6-19-3 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第6會期經濟委員會第3次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
6 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
3 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第6會期經濟委員會第3次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-10-22T10:35:05+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-10-22T10:48:09+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:13:04 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/9f0219c4ec2537e61002d3401651a218e8177f1cdd9008977d693c32fb55609c0829630984fb1b6e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
鄭正鈐 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:35:05 - 10:48:09 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-10-22T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第6會期經濟委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：邀請公平交易委員會代理主任委員、經濟部部長、勞動部首長、數位發展部首長及交通部首長就「公平會就跨境事業併購案之結合審查機制，是否納入複雜股權結構、勞動權益與資安風險等考量?」進行報告，並備質詢。
【10月21日及22日二天一次會】） |
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779.48721875 |
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779.55471875 |
| transcript.pyannote[137].speaker |
SPEAKER_02 |
| transcript.pyannote[137].speaker_name |
陳副主任委員志民 |
| transcript.pyannote[137].start |
779.55471875 |
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780.49971875 |
| transcript.pyannote[137].speaker_score |
0.924 |
| transcript.pyannote[138].speaker |
SPEAKER_03 |
| transcript.pyannote[138].start |
782.17034375 |
| transcript.pyannote[138].end |
784.09409375 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
0 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].end |
2 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
請問資訊 張偉晉 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
11 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
16 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
謝謝主席 我想請一下我們公平會的代理主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
16 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
18 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
請前主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
18 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
20 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
代理主委早 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
20 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
22 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
代理主委早 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
22 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
28 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
謝謝主席今天特別安排公平會就跨境事業併購案之結合審查機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
28 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
34 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
是否納入複雜股權結構 勞動權益與資安風險等考量的一個專報 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
34 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
40 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
那其實每次我們只要碰到了就是交易平台的一個併購案 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
40 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
43 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
都會引起非常非常大的一個社會關注 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
43 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
51 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
最主要是現在的消費行為跟整個那個外送平台關係都非常非常的緊密 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
51 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
59 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
那我想說從之前包括Uber曾經要用9.5美元併購Fupenda |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
59 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
61 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
那次就引起很多的關注 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
61 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
66 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
那一次其實公平會也很清楚的給了一個禁止的答案 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
66 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
72 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
那昨天其實公平會也非常非常緊密地去做了一個要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
72 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
74 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
那其實公平會也非常的有效率 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
74 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
77 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
在我們今天的一個專報之前的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
77 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
83 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
也直接宣布了禁止Grab來併購Fupenda這樣的一個案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
83 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
88 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
那因為這段時間以來其實我們看到了就是支持的其實蠻多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
88 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
90 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
反對的其實也蠻多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
90 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
96 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
然後尤其碰到了這個Dateline的時候就是打得越來越兇 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
96 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
101 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
那我甚至於從媒體上面看到了一個這樣子的一個指控 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
101 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
105 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
它標題就直接寫著說這個交易如果破局了 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
105 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
107 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
誰等著低價要接手 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
107 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
113 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
感覺上好像是在營造一個狀態就是公平會如果說 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
113 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
116 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
沒有站在這個媒體的一個特定立場的時候呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
116 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
120 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
感覺公平會就變成了一個特定方的一個打手 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
120 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
126 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
好像是要讓下面一個接手的人得到了公平會的一個按住 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
126 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
129 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
那我在想說公平會在做這樣的一個決策的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
129 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
132 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
肯定是有公平會的一個決策的過程 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
132 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
136 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
那你們昨天的那個新聞資料也很清楚寫到說 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
136 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
138 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
因為股權的一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
138 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
142 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
那減少積極競爭的一個誘因是你們這次做最主要的考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
142 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
146 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
那針對這樣的一個媒體的指控認為說公平會 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
146 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
152 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
如果給了一個否定的一個禁止Grab來併購Fupenda的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
152 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
158 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
可能要讓下面的一手可能會更便宜去接手 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
158 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
163 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
感覺好像變成指控起來感覺很像案子公平會變成一個特定方的打手 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
163 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
167 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
針對這部分可不可以請代理主委做一個清楚的一個回應 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
167 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
169 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
我想我簡單的講就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
169 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
173 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
不管是說這個案子如果破局後面誰會來接手 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
173 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
178 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
或者稍早之前也有人提出來說適合詬病的名單清單等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
178 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
180 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
這些都不在我們的考量範圍之內 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
180 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
182 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
我們會注意到有這樣的事實 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
182 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
185 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
但是這個跟我們競爭分析是沒有關係的 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
185 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
189 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
因為這畢竟是系屬於未來的一些產業結構的改變 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
189 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
194 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
那我們昨天在討論過程當中其實也很清楚的考慮到就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
194 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
197 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
我們當然就是依照現有的當事人申報的資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
197 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
201 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
還有我們透過各種管道收集到的市場跟產業資訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
201 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
203 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
既有的證據底下去做判斷 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
203 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
207 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
至於未來這個市場產業會發展誰會來接誰怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
207 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
210 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
這個我們在現階段我們不會去考慮 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
210 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
216 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
所以我想說因為這個外送平台賓購確實影響消費者很大的一個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
216 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
218 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
那因為你提到一個狀態就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
218 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
224 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
因為這次會禁止賓購最主要是因為可能會減少積極競爭的一個誘因 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
224 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
227 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
那我在想說積極競爭其實很大一個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
227 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
234 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
其實就是希望說就是外送的市場其實能夠更為有效競爭 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
234 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
240 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
然後依照那個依靠這個外送平台生活營業的民眾跟消費者 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
240 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
242 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
其實都能夠得到很好的一個保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
242 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
245 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
所以針對這個部分我想請教一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
245 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
249 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
我們這一次在做這樣子的一個準播的過程當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
249 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
255 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
是否有特別去考量到外送員他們的一個工作機會的保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
255 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
260 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
跟店家的抽成費用各種的成本會不會更重 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
260 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
263 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
還有消費者他們的優惠是不是會得到更多的保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
263 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
268 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
我們是不是有從這個角度來做一個很清楚的一個考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
268 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
272 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
我想是這樣跟我們報告就是外送員跟店家的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
272 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
274 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
譬如說外送員的工作機會收入 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
274 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
277 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
這個基本上我們已經有專法在規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
277 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
280 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
所以這個大概就是有專法的目的事業助營機關來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
280 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
285 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
店家的部分當然這也是有目的事業助營機關經濟部他們來處理這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
285 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
289 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
所以外送員跟店家的權益的受損這一塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
289 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
291 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
基本上我們是比較沒有去考慮到這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
291 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
295 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
消費者的部分其實我們當然整個公平法第一條規定很清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
295 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
298 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
我們公平法實施的目的在促進消費者的利益 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
298 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
303 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
但是這個促進消費者的利益是建立在競爭的效果 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
303 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
307 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
所以我們還是聚焦在這個節而案本身對競爭的影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
307 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
310 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
那間接的就是說假設這個節而案對競爭有利 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
310 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
312 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
我們相信間接的它會實現消費者的利益 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
312 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
315 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
但是反過來講如果這個節而會讓市場競爭削弱 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
315 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
317 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
那消費者當然間接的也會受害 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
317 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
322 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
所以我們大概是站在架構底下去探討委員關切的三個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
322 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
328 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
OK 那我在想說基本上本席跟您剛剛講的狀態其實有一個很清楚的共識就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
328 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
330 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
我們在做這個部分當中的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
330 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
334 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
除了對於併購案之後對於整個市場當中的競爭關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
334 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
337 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
是不是能夠維持一個很有效的競爭的狀態 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
337 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
339 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
對外送員不能維持合理的收入 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
339 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
341 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
店家會不會被提高抽成 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
341 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
346 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
消費者能不能享有充分的競爭所帶來的合理的價根服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
346 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
348 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
其實是重要的一部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
348 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
351 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
那其中有關外送員跟店家的部分你都有提到說 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
351 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
356 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
因為我們已經有專法跟其他的部會在針對這部分的管制 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
356 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
359 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
所以我接下來其實想要特別提到的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
359 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
363 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
因為外送員的權益保障及外送平台管理法 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
363 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
367 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
其實在今年7月21號正式的一個實施嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
367 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
369 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
所以我們講的外送專法 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
369 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
371 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
那麼針對這個部分的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
371 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
376 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
其實我要特別來請教包括我們經濟部 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
376 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
380 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
然後其他勞動部 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
380 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
383 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
然後速發部 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
383 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
386 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
跟交通部我們代表其實一起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
386 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
387 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
387 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
388 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
請 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
388 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
391 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
好請各部會的代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
391 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
393 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
OK因為這個問題的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
393 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
397 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
因為外送專法出來之後的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
397 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
398 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
其實我們很清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
398 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
400 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
其實希望能夠保障消費者 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
400 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
402 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
對外送員也有保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
402 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
404 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
各方面的一個情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
404 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
406 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
可是呢其實我們就看到了一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
406 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
408 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
在外送專法當中的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
408 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
410 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
其實有兩個很主要的一個狀態 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
410 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
412 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
就是每單最低報酬的一個保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
412 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
414 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
這是一個很重要的原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
414 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
417 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
然後第二個就是單單計價的一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
417 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
418 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
那針對這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
418 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
421 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
因為專法上路三個月了 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
421 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
423 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
那疊單的爭議的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
423 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
425 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
勞動部這邊也有很清楚講到說 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
425 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
428 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
我們其實會用單單來計價這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
428 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
430 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
來解決它 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
430 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
431 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
那針對這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
431 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
433 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
其實我們就來看一個情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
433 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
436 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
因為這個外送專法之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
436 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
439 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
它保障了外送平台的每單的基本權利 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
439 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
442 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
那也增加了平台的一個負擔 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
442 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
444 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
那因為我們看到了一個數字 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
444 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
446 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
包括副部長講到說 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
446 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
449 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
我們這專法上來之後的時候呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
449 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
453 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
那麼整個平台的成本漲價32% |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
453 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
455 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
成本提高32% |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
455 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
460 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
那當然外送員的每單的收入也提高38% |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
460 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
463 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
都有一些提高的情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
463 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
464 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
那結果會變怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
464 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
466 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
變成消費者來買單 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
466 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
467 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
會變成消費者來買單 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
467 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
471 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
所以我想要請教一下就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
471 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
473 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
我們目前的情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
473 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
476 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
勞動部在管勞權 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
476 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
479 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
那交通部在管運駕的一個核定 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
479 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
482 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
那經濟部在管商家的一個權益 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
482 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
485 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
那出發部在管線上的一個平台 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
485 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
487 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
所以對於這樣子的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
487 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
493 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
我們外送專法就是推動來之後的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
493 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
498 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
那消費者必須要承擔更多的一個成本 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
498 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
500 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
可是目前已經看到這樣的一個情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
500 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
506 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
那雖然說外送員他們每一單的收入提高 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
506 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
509 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
可是他們等單的時間也提高43% |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
509 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
511 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
那所以說這個部分的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
511 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
513 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
本來想要請教就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
513 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
516 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
我們接下來在做這樣子的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
516 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
522 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
是不是會有針對這麼多的單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
522 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
525 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
針對外送這個產業的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
525 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
531 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
會成立一個外送產業運駕與抽成連動的一個審議機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
531 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
533 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
是不是可能會有這個情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
533 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
536 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
能夠把剛剛我們講的這些問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
536 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
540 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
包括經濟部跟勞動部 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
540 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
543 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
跟那個我們速發部 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
543 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
547 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
還有就是監控部這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
547 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
552 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
針對核定每單的基本運駕跟疊單報酬的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
552 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
554 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
能夠強制消費者接受調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
554 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
556 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
跟合作餐廳的最高上限 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
556 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
559 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
同時納入這個法規當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
559 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
561 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
我為什麼會提到這個狀態 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
561 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
563 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
是因為在美國很多的城市 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
563 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
568 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
他們對於商家要負擔的就是外送成本 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
568 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
570 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
有限制的15% |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
570 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
572 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
我們目前台灣是沒有完全市場機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
572 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
574 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
所以目前商家他們負擔的成本 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
574 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
576 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
可能高達35% |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
576 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
579 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
其實非常的高 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
579 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
585 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
所以說針對這樣子的一個外送專法出來之後的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
585 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
589 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
我們對於整個的相關的收費的狀態 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
589 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
591 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
是不是能夠有一個很清楚的 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
591 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
594 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
跨部會的一個機制來做這樣的一個審理 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
595 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
598 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
可不可以請經濟部這邊做一個簡單的回應 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
598 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
600 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
跟委員報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
600 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
603 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
今天是投審是代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
603 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
608 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
不過這個部分我們會配合整個法規的檢討來提供意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
610 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
611 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
跟委員說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
611 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
616 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
在外送專法裡面有關這個商家的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
616 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
620 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
就平台對商家的這個比例 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
620 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
622 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
他事實上經濟部就我們老人不了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
622 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
626 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
經濟部已經有訂了一個合作契約的範本 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
626 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
631 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
那提供給這個平台還有商家來做參考的規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
633 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
636 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
所以這部分可不可以請商發署稍微回應一下這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
636 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
638 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
商發署 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
640 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
643 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
因為商發署是主管的一個機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
645 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
646 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
委員不好意思 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
646 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
649 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
這部分因為不是我這邊所列管的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
649 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
652 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
所以是不是容我們會後再補充給委員這邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
654 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
657 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
那我想最後的部分我另外再問一個狀態 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
657 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
659 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
就是KIA的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
659 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
662 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
KIA的問題的時候就是公平會這邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
662 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
665 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
其實剛才有委員他們也提到這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
665 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
670 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
就是我們針對那個KIA的這部分我們罰了200萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
670 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
672 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
罰200萬這部分的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
672 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
678 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
我在想說因為對於公平會在做這個部分的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
678 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
682 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
那我們想到一個直接的問題是一個消費者權益的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
682 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
685 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
那行政院消保處這邊的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
685 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
688 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
如果說碰到了很多的一個民眾 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
688 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
693 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
他拿整個公平會這邊的一個裁決出來的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
693 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
698 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
那消費者是不是可以用你們這樣子的一個裁決 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
698 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
703 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
然後來針對消保法跟民法的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
703 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
705 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
針對KIA來提起求償 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
705 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
710 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
我想我們做出的處分當然是他在訴訟上可以運用的一個佐證資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
710 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
715 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
這個應該是一個消費者可以拿來作為提起後續損害賠償訴訟的一個依據 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
715 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
717 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
所以像這部分的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
717 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
720 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
我在想說因為我們公平會竟然做了這樣的裁決 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
720 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
721 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
如果能夠的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
721 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
728 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
其實因為在這一次的那個整個裁罰公告裡面的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
728 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
729 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
如果能夠的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
729 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
732 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
我們本席是希望說能夠也把消費者權益的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
732 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
735 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
他們是不是能夠去做這樣的消費權益的保障的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
735 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
736 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
也能夠帶到 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
736 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
739 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
那我覺得這樣子其實可能是對於公平會 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
739 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
741 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
對於這樣的一個裁決之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
741 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
744 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
對消費者的一個保障也能夠提起更正面的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
744 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
746 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
事實上在我們的處分書當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
746 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
748 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
我們都會去描述說這個行為 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
748 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
751 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
到底對市場跟消費者的利益的保護會有什麼樣的影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
751 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
754 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
所以這一點我們其實都有在處分書裡面做說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
754 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
758 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
OK 那如果說現在比方說KIA他們提出一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
758 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
760 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
就是一個安心的一個方案的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
760 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
763 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
然後提出來之後的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
763 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
765 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
消費者還是還能不能繼續 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
765 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
768 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
針對就是公平會的一個裁決的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
768 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
770 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
再提起一個消費者的一個訴訟 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
770 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
771 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
消費者權益的訴訟 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
771 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
773 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
我們的處分是一個行政上的處分嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
773 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
775 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
那後續消費者要提起損害賠償 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
775 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
777 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
那是一個民事訴訟的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
777 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
779 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
所以兩者之間並不衝突 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
779 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
780 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
OK 好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
782 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
784 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
好 謝謝鄭昭偉 |