| IVOD_ID |
171556 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/171556 |
| 日期 |
2026-10-22 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-6-19-3 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第6會期經濟委員會第3次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
6 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
3 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第6會期經濟委員會第3次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-10-22T10:35:19+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-10-22T10:48:10+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:12:51 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/9f0219c4ec2537e66577fa89082d72f0e8177f1cdd9008970da12af8eb8a9ca7ac88c721d118b9685ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
鄭正鈐 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:35:19 - 10:48:10 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-10-22T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第6會期經濟委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：邀請公平交易委員會代理主任委員、經濟部部長、勞動部首長、數位發展部首長及交通部首長就「公平會就跨境事業併購案之結合審查機制，是否納入複雜股權結構、勞動權益與資安風險等考量?」進行報告，並備質詢。
【10月21日及22日二天一次會】） |
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SPEAKER_01 |
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鄭委員正鈐 |
| transcript.pyannote[132].start |
748.60596875 |
| transcript.pyannote[132].end |
751.93034375 |
| transcript.pyannote[132].speaker_score |
0.961 |
| transcript.pyannote[133].speaker |
SPEAKER_01 |
| transcript.pyannote[133].speaker_name |
鄭委員正鈐 |
| transcript.pyannote[133].start |
752.16659375 |
| transcript.pyannote[133].end |
757.36409375 |
| transcript.pyannote[133].speaker_score |
0.961 |
| transcript.pyannote[134].speaker |
SPEAKER_01 |
| transcript.pyannote[134].speaker_name |
鄭委員正鈐 |
| transcript.pyannote[134].start |
757.76909375 |
| transcript.pyannote[134].end |
758.89971875 |
| transcript.pyannote[134].speaker_score |
0.961 |
| transcript.pyannote[135].speaker |
SPEAKER_02 |
| transcript.pyannote[135].speaker_name |
陳副主任委員志民 |
| transcript.pyannote[135].start |
757.81971875 |
| transcript.pyannote[135].end |
766.08846875 |
| transcript.pyannote[135].speaker_score |
0.924 |
| transcript.pyannote[136].speaker |
SPEAKER_01 |
| transcript.pyannote[136].speaker_name |
鄭委員正鈐 |
| transcript.pyannote[136].start |
760.50284375 |
| transcript.pyannote[136].end |
760.94159375 |
| transcript.pyannote[136].speaker_score |
0.961 |
| transcript.pyannote[137].speaker |
SPEAKER_01 |
| transcript.pyannote[137].speaker_name |
鄭委員正鈐 |
| transcript.pyannote[137].start |
766.40909375 |
| transcript.pyannote[137].end |
766.57784375 |
| transcript.pyannote[137].speaker_score |
0.961 |
| transcript.pyannote[138].speaker |
SPEAKER_02 |
| transcript.pyannote[138].speaker_name |
陳副主任委員志民 |
| transcript.pyannote[138].start |
766.57784375 |
| transcript.pyannote[138].end |
766.62846875 |
| transcript.pyannote[138].speaker_score |
0.924 |
| transcript.pyannote[139].speaker |
SPEAKER_01 |
| transcript.pyannote[139].speaker_name |
鄭委員正鈐 |
| transcript.pyannote[139].start |
766.62846875 |
| transcript.pyannote[139].end |
766.64534375 |
| transcript.pyannote[139].speaker_score |
0.961 |
| transcript.pyannote[140].speaker |
SPEAKER_02 |
| transcript.pyannote[140].speaker_name |
陳副主任委員志民 |
| transcript.pyannote[140].start |
766.64534375 |
| transcript.pyannote[140].end |
767.43846875 |
| transcript.pyannote[140].speaker_score |
0.924 |
| transcript.pyannote[141].speaker |
SPEAKER_01 |
| transcript.pyannote[141].speaker_name |
鄭委員正鈐 |
| transcript.pyannote[141].start |
769.10909375 |
| transcript.pyannote[141].end |
771.65721875 |
| transcript.pyannote[141].speaker_score |
0.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
0 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].end |
2.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
我們公平會的代理主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
3.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
4.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
銀城主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
9.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
10.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
國務委早 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
10.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
12.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
代理主委早 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
12.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
18.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
謝謝主席今天特別安排公平會就跨境事業併購案之結合審查機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
18.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
21 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
是否納入複雜股權結構 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
21.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
24.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
勞動權益與資安風險等考量的一個專報 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
25.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
26.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
那其實每次我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
26.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
33.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
只要碰到了就是交易平台的一個併購案都會引起非常非常大的一個社會關注 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
33.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
35.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
最主要是現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
35.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
37.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
的消費行為跟整個 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
37.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
38.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
38.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
41.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
外送平台關係都非常非常的緊密 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
42.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
43.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
我想說 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
43.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
46.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
從之前包括 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
46.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
47.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
Uber曾經 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
48.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
53.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
要用9.5美元併購Fupenda那次就引起很多的關注 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
53.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
55.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
那一次其實公平會也很清楚的 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
55.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
57.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
給了一個禁止的一個答案 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
57.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
61.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
那昨天其實公平會也非常的有效率在我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
61.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
63.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
今天的一個專報之前的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
63.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
64.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
也直接 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
64.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
70.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
宣布了禁止Grab來併購Fupenda這樣的一個案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
70.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
76.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
那因為這段時間以來其實我們看到了就是支持的其實蠻多的反對的其實也蠻多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
77.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
78.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
然後尤其 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
78.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
80.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
碰到這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
80.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
81.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
Dateline的時候就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
82.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
83.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
打得越來越兇 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
83.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
86.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
那我甚至於從媒體上面看到了一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
86.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
88.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
這樣子的一個指控 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
88.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
90.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
他標題就直接寫著說 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
90.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
92.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
這個交易如果破局了 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
92.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
94.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
誰等著低價要接手 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
94.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
96.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
感覺上好像是 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
96.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
100.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
在營造一個狀態就是公平會如果說 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
100.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
103.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
沒有站在這個媒體的一個特定立場的時候呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
103.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
104.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
感覺 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
104.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
108.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
公平會就變成了一個特定方的一個打手好像是要讓 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
108.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
109.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
下面一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
110.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
113.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
接手的人得到了公平會的一個案註 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
113.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
118.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
那我在想說公平會在做這樣的決策的時候肯定是有公平會的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
118.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
119.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
決策的一個過程 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
119.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
123.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
那你們昨天的那個新聞資料也很清楚的寫到說 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
123.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
125.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
因為股權的一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
125.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
129.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
減少積極競爭的一個誘因是你們這是做最主要的考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
130.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
134.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
那針對這樣的一個媒體的指控認為說公平會如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
134.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
137.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
給了一個否定的一個禁止Grab來 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
138.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
142.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
併購那個FUPENTA的時候可能要讓下面的 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
142.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
143.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
一手 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
143.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
150.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
可能會更便宜去接手感覺好像變成指控起來感覺很像案子公平會變成一個特定方的打手 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
150.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
154.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
針對這部分可不可以請代理主委做一個清楚的一個回應 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
154.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
155.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
我想我簡單的講就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
156.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
161.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
不管是說這個案子如果破局後面誰會來接手或者稍早之前也有人提出來說 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
162.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
164.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
適合詬病的名單清單等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
165.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
167.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
這些都不在我們的考量範圍之內 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
167.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
171.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
我們會注意到有這樣的事實但是這個跟我們競爭分析是沒有關係的 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
172.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
175.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
因為這是畢竟是系屬於未來的一些產業結構的改變 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
176 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
180.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
那我們昨天在我們在討論過程當中其實也很清楚的考慮到就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
180.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
187.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
我們當然就是依照現有的當事人申報的資料還有我們透過各種管道收集到的市場跟產業資訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
187.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
189.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
既有的證據底下去做判斷 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
190.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
194.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
至於未來這個市場產業會發展誰會來接誰怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
194.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
196.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
這個我們在現階段我們不會去考慮 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
197.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
202.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
所以我想說因為這個外送平台併購確實影響消費者很大的一個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
202.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
209.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
因為你提到一個狀態就是說因為這次會禁止併購最主要是因為可能會減少 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
209.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
211.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
積極競爭的一個誘因 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
211.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
215.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
那我在想說積極競爭其實很大一個部分其實就是希望說 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
215.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
219.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
就是外送的市場其實能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
219.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
222.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
更為有效競爭然後依照那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
222.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
226.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
依靠這個外送平台生活營業的民眾跟消費者 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
227.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
228.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
其實都能夠得到很好的一個保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
229.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
230.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
所以針對這個部分我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
231.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
234.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
請教一下我們這一次在做這樣子的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
234.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
239.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
準駁的過程當中是否有特別去考量到外送員 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
239.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
242.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
他們的一個工作機會的保障跟店家的 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
243.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
244.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
抽成費用 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
244.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
246.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
各種的成本會不會更重 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
247.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
252.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
還有消費者他們的優惠是不是會得到更多的保障我們是不是有從這個角度 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
252.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
255 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
來做一個很清楚的一個考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
256.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
259.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
我想是這樣跟各位報告就是外送員跟店家的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
259.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
261.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
譬如說外送員的工作機會收入 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
261.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
263.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
這個基本上我們已經有專法在規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
264.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
267.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
所以這個大概就是有專法的目的事業助燃機關來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
267.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
269.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
店家的部分當然這也是有 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
269.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
272.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
目的事業助燃機關經濟部他們來處理這個問題所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
273.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
275.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
外送員跟店家的權益的受損這一塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
276.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
278.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
基本上我們是比較沒有去考慮到這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
278.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
282.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
消費者的部分其實我們當然整個公平法第一條規定很清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
282.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
285.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
我們公平法實施的目的在促進消費者利益 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
285.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
288.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
但是這個促進消費者利益是建立在競爭的 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
289.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
289.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
效果 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
289.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
293.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
所以我們還是聚焦在這個節而案本身對競爭的影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
294.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
299.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
那間接的就是說假設這個節而案對競爭有利我們相信間接的它會實現消費者利益 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
299.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
302.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
但是反過來講如果這個節而會讓市場競爭削弱 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
302.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
304.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
那消費者當然間接的也會受害 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
304.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
309.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
所以我們大概是這樣的架構底下去探討這個委員關切的這個三個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
309.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
310.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
OK喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
310.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
315.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
那我在想說基本上本席跟您剛剛講的狀態其實有一個很清楚的共識就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
315.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
321.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
我們在做這個部分當中的時候除了對於併購案之後對於整個市場當中的一個競爭關係是不是能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
322.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
324.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
維持一個很有效的一個競爭的狀態 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
324.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
329.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
對外送員不能維持合理的收入店家會不會被提高抽成消費者能不能 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
330 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
334.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
享有充分的競爭所帶來的一個合理的價根服務其實是重要的一部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
335.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
341.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
那其中有關外送員跟店家的部分你都有提到說因為我們已經有專法跟其他的部會在 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
341.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
350.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
針對這部分的管制所以我接下來其實想要特別提到的是因為外送員的權益保障及外送平台管理法 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
350.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
355.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
其實在今年7月21號正式的一個實施嘛所以我們講的外送專法 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
356.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
367.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
針對這個部分的時候其實我要特別來請教包括我們經濟部然後其他勞動部 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
367.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
373.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
然後速發部跟交通部我們代表其實一起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
375.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
377.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
請各部會的代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
378.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
382.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
因為這個問題的時候因為外送專法 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
383.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
390.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
出來之後的時候其實我們很清楚其實希望能夠保障消費者對外送員也有保障各方面的一個情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
390.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
399.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
可是呢其實我們就看到了一個在外送專法當中的時候其實有兩個很主要的一個狀態就是每單最低報酬的一個保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
399.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
403.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
這是一個很重要的原則然後第二個就是單單計價的一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
404.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
408.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
針對這個部分因為專法上路三個月了 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
409.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
416.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
疊單的爭議的時候勞動部這邊也有很清楚講到說我們其實會用單單來計價這個問題來解決它 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
416.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
421.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
針對這個部分其實我們就來看一個情況因為這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
421.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
429.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
外送專法之後它保障了外送平台的每單的基本權利也增加了平台的一個負擔 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
429.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
433.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
因為我們看到了一個數字包括副本拿著講到說 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
434.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
436.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
我們在專法上來之後的時候呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
436.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
438.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
那麼整個平台的成本 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
438.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
440.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
漲價32% |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
440.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
442 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
成本提高32% |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
442.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
445.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
那當然外送員的每單的成 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
445.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
447.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
收入也提高38% |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
447.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
448.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
都有一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
448.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
449.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
提高的情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
450.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
452.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
結果會變成消費者來買單 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
453.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
454.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
會變成消費者來買單 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
454.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
457.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
所以我想要請教一下就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
458.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
459.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
我們目前的情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
460.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
462.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
勞動部在管勞權 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
462.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
466.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
交通部在管運價的一個核定 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
466.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
469.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
經濟部在管商家的權益 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
469.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
470.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
書發部在管 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
471.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
472.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
線上的一個平台 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
472.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
475.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
所以對於這樣子的一個我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
475.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
477.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
外送專法 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
477.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
480.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
就是推動來之後的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
480.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
481.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
消費者的 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
483 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
485.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
必須要承擔更多的一個成本 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
485.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
487.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
可是目前已經看到這樣的一個情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
487.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
491.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
那雖然說外送員他們每一單的 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
491.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
492.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
收入提高 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
493.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
496.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
可是他們等單的時間也提高43% |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
496.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
499.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
所以說這個部分的時候本來想要請教就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
500.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
503.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
我們接下來在做這樣子的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
505 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
507.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
是不是會有針對 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
507.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
509.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
這麼多的單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
509.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
512.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
針對外送這個產業的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
512.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
515.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
會成立一個外送產業運價與抽成 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
516.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
518.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
聯動的一個審議機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
518.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
520.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
是不是可能會有這個情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
520.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
523.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
能夠把剛剛我們講的這些問題包括 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
523.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
524.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
經濟部 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
525 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
526.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
勞動部 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
527.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
530.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
跟我們書發部 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
530.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
532.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
還有就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
532.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
534.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
交通部這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
534.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
538.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
針對核定美單的基本運價跟疊單報酬的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
539.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
541.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
能夠強制消費者接受調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
541.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
544.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
跟合作餐廳的最高上限同時納入這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
545.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
548.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
法規當中我為什麼會提到這個狀態是因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
548.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
552.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
在美國很多的城市他們對於商家 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
552.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
553.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
要負擔的 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
553.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
554.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
就是外送成本 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
555.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
559.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
有限制的15%我們目前台灣是沒有完全市場機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
559.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
563.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
所以目前商家他們負擔的成本可能高達35% |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
563.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
564.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
是非常的高 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
564.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
565.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
非常的高 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
566.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
569.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
所以說針對這樣子的一個外送 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
570 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
573.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
專法出來之後的時候我們對於 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
573.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
579.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
整個的相關的收費的狀態是不是能夠有一個很清楚的跨部會的機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
579.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
580.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
來做這樣的一個審理 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
581.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
584.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
可不可以請經濟部這邊做一個簡單的回應 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
586.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
589.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
跟委員報告今天是投審是代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
589.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
591.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
不過這個部分我們會配合 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
592.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
594.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
整個法規的檢討來提供意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
596.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
596.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
OK |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
597.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
598.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
跟委員說明那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
598.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
603.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
在外送專法裡面有關這個商家的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
603.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
606.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
平台對商家的這個比例 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
606.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
608.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
他事實上經濟部就我們老公不瞭解 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
608.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
612.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
經濟部已經有訂了一個合作契約的範本 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
613 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
617.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
那提供給這個平台還有商家來做參考的規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
619.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
623 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
所以這部分可不可以請商發署稍微回應一下這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
623.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
624.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
商發署 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
627.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
629.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
因為商發署是主管的一個機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
629.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
630.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
好 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
632.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
636.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
委員不好意思這部分因為不是我這邊所列管的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
636.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
639.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
所以是不是容我們會後再補充給委員這邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
639.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
639.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
OK好 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
641.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
644.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
那我想最後的部分我另外再問一個狀態 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
644.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
646.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
就是KIA的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
646.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
649.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
KIA的問題的時候這是公評會這邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
649.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
651.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
其實剛剛也有委員他們也提到這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
652.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
652.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
就是我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
653.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
657.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
針對那個KIA的這個部分我們罰了兩百萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
658.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
660.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
對罰兩百萬這部分的時候我在想說 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
660.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
661.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
因為對於 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
663.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
665.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
公評會在做這個部分的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
665.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
669.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
那我們想到一個直接的問題是一個消費者權益的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
669.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
672.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
那行政院消保處這邊的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
672.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
675.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
如果說碰到了很多的一個民眾 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
675.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
679.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
他拿整個公評會這邊的一個裁決出來的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
680.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
683.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
那消費者是不是可以用你們這樣子的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
684.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
685.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
裁決 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
685.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
686.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
然後來保 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
687.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
690.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
來針對消保法跟民法的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
690.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
691.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
針對KIA來提起求償 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
691.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
695.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
我想我們做出的處分當然是他在訴訟上可以運用的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
695.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
696.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
一個佐證資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
696.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
699.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
這個應該是一個消費者可以拿來作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
699.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
701.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
提起後續損害賠償訴訟的一個依據 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
702.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
702.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
OK |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
702.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
704.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
所以像這部分的時候我在想說 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
704.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
706.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
因為我們公評會竟然做了這樣的裁決 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
706.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
710.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
如果能夠的時候我其實因為在這一次的那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
711.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
712.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
整個 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
713.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
715.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
裁罰公告裡面的時候如果能夠的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
715.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
717.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
我們本席是希望說 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
717.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
719.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
能夠也把消費者權益的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
719.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
722.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
他們是不是能夠去做這樣的消費權益的保障的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
722.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
723.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
也能夠帶到 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
723.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
725.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
那我覺得這樣子其實可能是對於公評會 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
725.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
727.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
對於這樣的一個裁決之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
727.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
731.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
對消費者的一個保障也能夠提起一個更正面的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
731.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
732.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
事實上在我們的處分書當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
732.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
734.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
我們都會去描述說 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
734.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
737.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
這個行為到底對市場跟消費者的利益的保護 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
737.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
738.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
會有什麼樣的影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
738.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
741.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
所以這一點我們其實都有在處分書裡面做說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
741.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
742.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
OK |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
742.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
745.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
那如果說現在比方說KIA他們提出一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
745.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
747.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
就是一個安心的一個方案的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
747.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
747.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
748.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
752.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
提出來之後的時候消費者還是還能不能繼續 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
752.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
752.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
針對 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
752.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
755.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
就是公評會的一個裁決的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
755.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
757.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
再提起一個消費者的一個訴訟 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
757.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
758.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
消費者權益的訴訟 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
758.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
760.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
我們的處分是一個行政上的處分 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
760.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
762.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
那後續消費者要提起損害賠償 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
762.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
764.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
那是一個民事訴訟的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
764.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
766.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
所以兩者之間並不衝突 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
766.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
767.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
OK好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
769.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
770.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
好謝謝鄭昭偉 |