| IVOD_ID |
17141 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17141 |
| 日期 |
2025-12-22 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-15-17 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期內政委員會第17次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
17 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
15 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
內政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期內政委員會第17次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-12-22T08:35:29+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-12-22T13:04:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
04:28:31 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/eeffa975d6a1e3eac22d0fafdfecfd6088890845ad1f9d833fa04411479d882a0431afa4fbc0ded95ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-12-22T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
(變更議程)立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第17次全體委員會議（事由：邀請內政部部長、衛生福利部部長、交通部部長、警政署署長、國家安全會議秘書長、國家安全局局長、法務部部長就計畫性攻擊事件進行「社會治安維護之檢討與精進」專題報告並備質詢。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:35:29 - 13:04:00 |
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請主任秘書報告出席人數報告委員會出席委員11人已足法定人數現在開會進行報告事項請宣讀上次會議事錄立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第16次全體委員會議事錄時間114年12月17日星期三上午9時2分至10時23分地點紅樓202會議室出席委員張宏祿委員等14人列席委員陳培瑜委員等9人 |
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1669.179 |
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1694.868 |
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列席官員內政部部長劉世芳暨相關人員行政院打擊詐欺指揮中心執行秘書王從聖法務部政務次長黃士傑暨相關人員司法院刑事廳副廳長顧正德暨相關人員金融監督管理委員會國家通訊傳播委員會數位發展部經濟部交通部農業部財政部個人資料保護委員會籌備處等機關代表暨相關人員主席王昭吉委員美會報告事項宣讀上次會議事錄決定確定討論事項 |
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1697.309 |
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1715.001 |
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繼續審查詐欺犯罪危害防治條例修正草案案計21案審查詐欺犯罪危害防治條例修正草案案計14案委員 洪孟凱 徐宇貞 張志倫說明提案要旨決議詐欺犯罪危害防治條例修正草案等35案依第7條至第11條第13條第42條第43條第46條第47條第50條均照行政院提案通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1723.527 |
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1751.802 |
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二委員楊瓊英等29人提案第30條委員黃婕等16人提案第31條及第40條委員王定宇等18人提案第54條均不予修正維持線性條文三委員黃婕等16人提案增訂第31條之一不予增訂四第44條除增訂第一項第三款三教唆幫助或利用未滿18歲滿80歲或非本國籍人士犯罪或與之共同實施犯罪外依照行政院提案通過 |
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1752.822 |
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1769.843 |
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五审查通过这条文条次引述条文之文字及相关法制用与授权主席及议事人员整理六宾案审查完据拟据审查报告提报院会不需交由党团协商并推请王兆济为美会与院会讨论时做补充说明七通过附带决议一项宣读完毕 |
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1779.009 |
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請問各位委員上次會議意思有無錯誤或遺漏無錯誤意思確定那據進行本日議程報告事項請宣讀邀請內政部部長衛生福利部部長交通部部長警政署署長國家安全會議秘書長國家安全局局長法務部部長就計劃性攻擊事件進行社會治安維護之檢討與精進專題報告並被質詢宣讀完畢 |
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1811.022 |
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1834.213 |
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現在介紹在場的委員及列席官員首先介紹王美惠召委黃婕委員李柏毅委員蘇巧慧委員張志倫委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1840.529 |
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1867.63 |
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那現在介紹列席的官員有內政部長劉世芳劉部長我們警政署張榮鑫張署長衛生服務部政務次長呂健德疾病管制署署長羅一鈞交通部的政務次長武聖元綜合規劃司司長張垂龍 |
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1870.956 |
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1898.471 |
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公共運輸監理師的市長胡迪啟鐵道局局長楊振軍國營台灣鐵路股份公司總經理馮輝昇台灣高速鐵路股份公司總經理陳慧玉國家安全局副局長陳松吉保護部常務市長黃蒙信 |
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1905.7 |
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1907.929 |
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那現在請內政部劉部長釋放報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1917.319 |
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1942.826 |
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黃昭偉還有各位委員大家早內政部跟警政署就社會治安維護的檢討與精進做簡單的口頭報告114年12月19日17時許台北車站捷運站以下稱北捷及中山區南西商圈發生丟擲煙霧彈隨機襲擊的事件造成4死11傷的遺憾結果本案犯嫌事先預謀並且計劃周詳選擇在交通尖峰時段 |
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1946.767 |
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1966.585 |
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以及人潮聚集的處所實施犯案震驚全社會大眾當日警方獲報查緝縱火案時在最短時間17時41分透過焚毀的車輛以鎖定縱火犯的身份並且立即通知桃園市政府警察局楊梅分局協助前往犯嫌 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
1967.686 |
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1984.804 |
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張嫻的戶籍地來查訪在18時11分新聞露出之後台北市政府警察局立即透過監視器畫面比對確認同一范嫻雖然范嫻系預沒犯案且刻意藉由連續變裝變換交通工具選擇監視器死角等方式躲避偵查 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
1986.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2004.891 |
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為針對范嫻軌跡進行調閱之後終能釐清案發經過及確認范嫻身份實施圍捕並且及時透過媒體向民眾說明案情以安定民心內政部警政署在案件發生之後立即在當天19日18時45分通報各警察機關 |
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2006.391 |
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2031.937 |
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針對大型活動、交通樞紐、航空、鐵路、公路、捷運等大眾運輸以及人潮聚集的處所加強巡邏、重點守望等維安勤務提高見景率在12月20日總統蒞臨警政署聽取1.219台北市隨機襲擊事件的專案報告當中強調公共運輸系統是民眾日常生活的重要命脈請內政部持續檢討 |
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2033.157 |
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2058.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
建立快速反應機制在狀況發生之後 使能及時反應 制止攻擊的行為因此內政部在12月20日到21日分成三的梯次與全國22位直轄市縣市警察局局長就轄內大型活動或人潮聚集處所警察機關如何結合民力召開加強公共場域及交通運輸系統安全維護的專案會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2060.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2089.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
希望能夠各機關結合所轄的義警義交社區巡守隊等民力資源以及各公共場域活動辦理主辦單位的保全人員形成多層次的社會安全防護網絡經過調查114年12月21日到12月31日接續元旦農曆年前各地廟會慶祝活動重大活動共計137場均已由轄區警察局妥適規劃勤務加強安危部署 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2091.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2100.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
針對使用攜勤名利的部分也依照總統指示加強運用合計使用警名利共17295人次含員警11902人次名利5649人次這個5649人次當中還包括民防守望相助隊保全義警等 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2111.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2139.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
以全面來提升見景率跟嚇阻的效果結合各類的民力穩定民心確保大型活動可以圓滿安全進行在結語的部分由於長期以來台灣社會治安平穩未曾有此大規模襲擊事件的經驗因此發生之際民眾與相關部門在震驚之下難免反應不及但中央與地方政府包括在警政消防跟醫療體系裡面均盡力掌握情資並且努力降低更多的傷亡 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2140.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2161.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
同時在這次事件當中許多第一時間見義勇為協助急救的民眾包括因為阻止歹徒行兇而不幸罹難的余先生都是我們的英雄在沉動之餘政府也要再次呼籲民眾面對在危機時仍然要以保護自身安全為優先助人與自救同樣可貴和重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2162.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2179.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
此外對於網路上面某些想要模仿歹徒行徑的言論甚至行動政府也要提出最嚴厲的警告台灣對於任何恐怖攻擊的行為都是零容忍查緝潛在的威脅與襲擊沒有模糊的空間警方跟政府各單位一定會嚴正執法 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2181.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2203.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
請民眾勿以此犯罪行為作為嬉鬧的主題這對於不幸傷亡的民眾來說完全無法接受也呼籲民眾如果發現可疑或異常情形能及時向警方反映與警察機關共同守護安全最後如同總統院長以及蔣市長在會議當中所說的對於未來公共場所安全措施的強化 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2203.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2214.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
內政部一定會從訓練裝備演習等三大方向在最短時間內同步提升讓全體國民能持續享有安全安心安居的環境以上檢要報告謝謝有事辦部長的報告那接下來我們請衛生福利部呂健德次長報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2233.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2247.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
主席 各位委員 女士先生今天大院第11屆第4次內政委員會召開全體委員會議本部呈邀列席報告來就重大社會治安事件因應作為以及推動強化社會安全網計畫來提出專案報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2248.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2260.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
首先政府自強化社會安全網推動以來已經逐步建立跨體系的合作基礎到目前為止總計有社會福利服務中心156處社區心理衛生中心65處禁用6294名的社工專業人力 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2266.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2287.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
推薦弱勢就業比例為79%強化社會安全網2.0立即在前述的基礎上面我們會進一步來強化初級預防風險管理以及服務銜接的機制以因應不同家庭生活週期可能面臨的社會風險那麼社會安全網目前已經整合社會政教育勞政警政法務等五個部會 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2288.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2305.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
持續推展社福中心的資源以及保護業務同時也建置了兒保醫療中心12處並且成立22處的集中篩派案中心也受理35萬件的通報案件99%的案件都在實現之內完成派案程序 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2306.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2319.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
那麼第二因應本次重大社會治安事件的作為第一本部立即啟動血液暴露後諮詢以及公費投藥專案本次事件因為部分民眾可能有血液暴露的風險 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2320.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2342.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
疾管署已經立即啟動血液暴露後諮詢以及公費投藥專案並且在12月20號立即召開記者會對外來說明那麼針對遭砍傷或有血液暴露而尚未就醫的民眾可以撥打24小時1922防疫專線來進行轉介評估而住院傷患則是由收治 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2343.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2357.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
醫院來評估而經過評估需要需要者在曝露後72小時內會完成完成公費的預防投藥那麼會因為血液曝露感染HIV的機率事實上相當低而投藥之後可以將風險降為零請 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2360.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2388.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
受影響的民眾務須過度擔心並且我們也呼籲社會務肉縮這個傷者以免增加心理調適的壓力第二本部馬上啟動一案一社工的關懷服務針對台北車站與捷運中山站發生的隨機傷害事件已經啟動一案一社工的關懷服務提供媒合心理支持生活協助法律諮詢等服務來確保受害者能立即獲得妥善的照顧以及後續的權益保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2389.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2405.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
那麼第三我們會持續精進重大社會事件的心理健康應變機制本部在攻擊事件發生之後立即透過發布衛教宣導的資訊提醒民眾關注自身的心理狀況同時也督導地方政府的衛生局 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2406.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2428.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
針對目睹事件的民眾傷者以及死者家屬主動進行關懷訪視以及提供必要的心理支持服務第三本部將強化並且檢視社會安全網相關的一些要件強化社會安全網2.0的計畫政策重點將由單一事件的處理轉向以人為本以家庭為中心的整體風險管理結合社政 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2429.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2450.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
衛生教育警政司法等網絡資源強化高風險個案的追蹤以及服務銜接在重點工作的策略方面第一我們將擴大推動獨居老人的送暖政策第二將發展拖圓拖平的服務方法第三優化提升現有的集中篩判案中心為調查處理中心 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2450.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2477.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
精準派案並且精進分級處理的制度第四將科技導入輔助專業能力以及服務品質提升來提升資料品質同時在社安網的2.0的經費需求部分我們也大幅提高為第二期計畫的1.7倍除了充實專業能力之外同時也將延續第二期的計畫投入包括獨居老人 近貧人口新手父母以及數位性影像受暴力 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2478.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2487.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
等各項的支持那麼本部將持續與各部會以及地方政府齊心和協力強化社會安全網以根本解決 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2489.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2509.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
並且減少影響社會安全的貧窮失業家庭衝突疾病自殺以及社會疏離以及犯罪等各項風險因子讓民眾生活能夠更加安心本部成大院各規委員的指導以及監督在此請靜置謝神並且請各位來繼續指教 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2514.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2520.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
謝謝衛福部的李建德次長報告接下來我們請交通部武聖元次長報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2528.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2546.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
主席 各位委員 各位女士先生今天應邀貴委員會就社會治安維護的檢討已經進行專案報告緊究交通部轄管的全國各大交通廠站發生維安事件的應變機制以作為檢要的說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2547.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2577.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
第一個在維安事件的應變這個機制的作為交通部轄管全國各大交通的場站包括國道休息區鐵道港口航空站重要的觀光景點等針對這些各類的維安事件的應變機制以及作為僅分數如此第一個路上交通的設施高速公路各服務區都設有保全人員並採取走動式的管理24小時全天候的 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2578.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2600.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
執行區內的安全維護事件並注意所有可疑的人事物隨時保持警戒性當這個服務區發生人為的危機事件立即啟動緊急應變組織以疏散救人為優先的處置一個重點並請內政部 警政署 國道 高速公路 警察局 地方警察局以及醫療單位來支援 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2601.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2616.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
鐵道部分重要的車站我們每年都會辦理一次車站隨機殺人模擬一個演練並請鐵路警察局共同派員來參與以及指導當發生緊急事故的時候我們迅速通報鐵路警察派員來執行應變 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2618.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2636.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
並立即疏散引導旅客到安全的地方進行傷亡的一個搶救同時隔離在一個現場管制人員的進出避免非授權人員的誤入造成危害的一個擴大另外為了防止後續的列車到達車站以後受到 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2637.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2660.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
受影響的區域 針對受影響區域的其他載客列車 基於安全考量而無法及時進行這個月來蘇贊時嘗試將該列車 我們就移離這個車站第二個 在港口的部分 中部 港港局以及台灣港務公司 免而參考這個年度的重大議題以及曾經常見災害的類型 樣態 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2662.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2691.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
來定期邀集港區各個機關以及CIQS等單位也就是邊境官裡面的四個重大關卡包括海關證照的查驗檢疫以及安全這個檢查燈那我們來辦理這樣的演習來驗證規劃措施以及緊接應變的一個能力那藉由各項的缺失減好改善來檢視三港本身的一個安全防護的一個能量納入這個措施與程序的修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2691.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2705.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
在航空站的部分 交通部民良局責成督導航空站定期會同內政部警政署 航港局還有諸位的保全等相關單位進行重大的人為 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2707.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2725.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
維安的事件一個演練來熟悉應變的作業另外為了強化機場安全的維護航空站已經設置這個機場的管制區並且由航港局對於進入機場管制區的人員物品車輛來進行執行安全的一個檢查 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2726.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2743.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
另外針對航廈報到大廳以及停車場這些的路側的公共設施也執行巡邏守望的一個作業持續滾動來檢視脆弱點並予以補強第四個在重要的觀光景點以及大型活動 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2744.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2773.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
我們平時應用的監視系統來即時掌控現場的一個動態巡查人員來執行定時以及不定時的巡查作業落實現場這個區域的一個管理以及監控並依據由下而上同步通報的原則發生危險事件時現場第一人就回報景區的管理處另外管理處立即就進行區域的一個管制疏散這個遊客引導群眾遠離危險的區域 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2775.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2801.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
並封鎖現場以保存物證同步通報10119或海巡署等外部的支援單位針對大型活動的安全管理措施包含事前擬定緊急應變計畫偷保公共意外責任險另外配置救護站以及保險人力規劃疏散救援的動線同時定期辦擬同仁以及危害人員安全的 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2802.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2827.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
意識的教育信念以及複合型的一個災害的演練在經濟作為的部分為了前面所附公共運輸安全交通部持續會提升緊急應變能力以及強化應變的這樣的一個機制第一個我們平時落實轄管的一個場域各項的安全刑檢的一個作業建立通報的一個流程 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2828.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2847.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
第二個家常人員應變的疏散緊急救護等訓練定期辦理緊急應變以及公安的訓練透過訓練 講習 演練這些方式來培養危機處理人能力並藉由持續演練使各單位來熟練整個應變的一個程序 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2848.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2876.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
第三 深化聯防的一個機制主動和轄具的警察 消防 醫療以及地方政府建立跨機關的一個協調平台以及通報的群組是需要辦理聯合演練以及桌上的一個推演滾動式來檢討應變作為第四 善用數位的一個預警資訊例如用我們的官方APP還有手機簡訊或者是社群的平台等 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2877.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2903.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
來向遊客發送警示這樣的一個簡訊或者是安全注意的事項提高民眾維繫的一個意識在捷運的部分交通部已經要求全國各大的交通場站來同步安全的一個戒備並聯合警方加上巡邏前面的守護公共運輸保障每一位用路人旅客的安全以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2909.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2936.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
謝謝五次長的報告其他單位的報告請委員自行參閱並刊登公報那現在進行詢答委員詢答前遠離座幾點宣告第一本會委員發言的時間5分鐘必要時的延長2分鐘非本會委員5分鐘上午10點30分截止發言登記第二臨時提案截止提出時間11點與本會委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2939.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
2942.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
詢答完畢後處理請問各位同仁有沒有意見那現在進行詢答請登記第一位的蘇橋惠美發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
2965.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
2972.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
好謝謝主席我們請內政部劉思芳部長當然還有警政署張署長請劉部長張署長部長好署長好那 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
2979.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3002.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
我想上個週五台北市發生了這樣這個捷運的隨機襲擊事件造成了許多民眾的傷亡那我們除了聲表哀悼之外其實也要對第一線的警察同仁真的表示辛苦了因為不只是當天出動了這麼多的警力甚至第二天在台北市我們以 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3004.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3025.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
這個馬拉松來看台北市馬拉松來看的話其實更是加派了雙倍的警力所以我想這一段接下來的這段時間還有很多大型活動全國的警察同仁真的要謝謝大家的努力那也辛苦了但我們就這些問題我們也還是來繼續進行討論署長先對您表示辛苦了 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3027.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3050.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
好 那接下來討論的問題當中我想藉著這個質詢的過程把這兩天當中其實民間對警察處置方向最大的疑問的幾個部分特別提出來並且也請署長做說明其實民間有三大問題第一個就是這整個事件當中警察的反應速度是否不夠快 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3051.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3071.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
到場的時間是否不夠早這是第一個尤其是它已經是有多起連續的狀態甚至往前推除了在捷運站襲擊民眾之外往前還有縱火甚至是到住家的部分也都有這樣連續幾個部分為什麼警察都沒有發現所以第一個是到場的時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3072.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3087.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
第二個是從新聞的影片來看這個警察的部分他到了成品裡面到百貨公司裡面的時候被拍到的影像似乎只有警棍所以是否警察的裝備不足這是平常的訓練不夠嗎還是一向都這樣這是民眾的第二個問題第三個問題的話當然就是那我們在追蹤的狀況是不是連監視器都有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3096.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3122.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
所以你沒有辦法追蹤到這三個問題我想是坊間現在大家最想知道的狀況所以是不是請署長這邊可以簡單做回答好謝謝委員那發生這個案件我們警察一定是會盡力去做維護民眾安全那第一個問題就是在發生有兩個措施一個就是北捷北捷這部分是嫌犯在17點23分投擲的煙霧彈我們的警方在6分鐘就到場 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3126.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3140.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
那第二部分就是他犯案之後陶藝再繼續犯案那在這個嫌犯在到達這個中山這個成餅的這個狀況警方是在兩分鐘就到場這個時間的部分我想這個所有這個案件一定是要達到民眾要協助做報案快我們警力這個到場快以及要處置快這個原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3154.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3182.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
那第二部分就是說裝備的這個部分也就是說在嫌犯進入到城堡裡面我們的警力當時就是在路口有一個交通崗那交通崗的情侶本來就是沒有配槍那另外就是這個交通崗通報這個資源的時候就立資源所以是最早最快的那一組你看就是那個中山的那個所長也出來講 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3183.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3212.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
有些同仁要下班了但是他為了急迫就趕去我覺得就是說未來像類似這種裝備還是要領但是但是這裡面追進去裡面有八個人有八個人但是就是有交通港跟要下班的同仁那為了要第一時間去我覺得這個是未來可以做精進但是那裡面還是有巡邏勤務快達快達進去了那當然是有帶槍支的也有沒有帶槍支這個部分我覺得未來還是有這個精進的空間但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3213.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3231.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
警察的天職你看看就是說發生狀況他要下班了他就也是奮固的到達現場去做一個協助但是他大概也沒有想到說歹徒是拿了這個器械槍枝或什麼這一類的那當然未來我們這個部分會加強訓練 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3232.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3240.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
那第三個部分就是在對於監視器的部分就是第一時間到這個捷運的這個M8的那個那個那個地方的狀況我們第一時間當然是會了解這個帶圖的這個動線那確實在板南線M2的地方我們發現北捷 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3248.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3261.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
有一組的這個監視器是故障的所以這個也是一個我們要了解歹徒要他逃逸方向的一個阻礙的一個點這個三個狀況大概就這樣子好 署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3263.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3284.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
因為我是今天第一個質詢那我也是想藉這個時間其實是透過您的說明一方面是讓警察的所作所為有機會更完整的跟社會大眾報告一方面是降低社會的疑慮一方面是讓警察有機會能夠把自己的工作向社會大眾做報告我們當然要求未來還要精進 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3285.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3296.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
但目前現在的處置我們認為其實越公開的資訊越能夠讓大家對警察的情務了解的同時也降低民眾恐懼未來公開資訊這個部分請署長部長繼續持續的就這個重大事件向社會做說明這是我第一個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3303.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3332.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
那第二個部分其實我對於剛剛您說的這個部分要說的是警力有限但民力無窮在這個過程當中我們看到了民眾有奮不顧身去協助擋住災害的部分的這樣子英勇民眾但是也有更多的民眾其實我們希望他們達到的是一個自保的狀況所以我利用我最後的兩分鐘質詢時間我想跟部長來探討一下這個大家現在昨天之後大家在想的這個小局書的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3333.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3347.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
昨天之後其實大家都在看小局書裡面有沒有教到我們對這樣子的重大危害的生命的事件有指引有因應有教我們怎麼做呢部長我想請問一下劉部長我想請問一下這次昨天的事件在小局書裡面有寫到嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3353.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3373.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
我們寫的部分比較沒有那麼明確其實沒有因為是我們是在教民眾自救的部分比如說止血啊或者是什麼AED的部分等等的這個部分沒有但是在這個12頁裡面有如何自救與護救裡面有提到毒化物質的災害的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3373.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3388.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
沒錯 這是災害發生的時候但是署長對不起我再回來問署長署長你會定義如何定義昨天這樣的一個重大治安事件這個事件是一個你會定義它是恐怖攻擊嗎我想這個還是有一段距離這個是一個隨機隨機的一個襲擊事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3391.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3416.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
那你會定義它是暴力重大人為危安事件嗎應該會 會嘛對不對其實部長署長我想也是跟大家分享我們的小局書裡面當然沒有這樣子的一個面對重大暴力危害事件但是其實我們在7月的時候行政院的國土安全辦公室 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3417.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3440.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
其實就有出了一份民眾自我安全防護嘗試篇的反暴力重大人為維安事件或恐怖攻擊其實在裡面我們快速的看一下其實在裡面寫得非常的清楚剛好就是昨天這個重大事件其實在裡面可以看得很清楚常見的手段有哪些砍殺縱火槍擊劫持爆炸昨天裡面就有砍殺就有縱火 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3442.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3465.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
好再來我們如何辨識這可疑的人事物其實這裡面指引的很清楚很明白的告訴我們未來你在場合上面看到什麼樣的人你可以覺得你應該覺得他是可疑的人可疑的是甚至是如何辨識危險物品也講得非常的清楚再來碰到了可疑的人事物的時候你要做什麼你要怎麼通報 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3467.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3479.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
通報警察也是要有技巧的不要講一大堆其他的反而降低了通報的時間最後面對剛剛這樣子的事件的時候我們的策略是什麼其實跟國際完全接軌就是跑躲 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3483.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3505.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
還有說這三大策略因為就像部長剛剛您說的自救和救人是同樣重要不必逞英雄自救可以及時的離開危險現場反而是對民眾最大的指引所以其實我是認為其實這份指引非常的詳盡而且重要不過也看得出來因為他在第一頁的時候他就有說 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3506.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3535.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
因為台灣在這個恐怖主義風險指數其實是很低的在全球163個國家之中我們排100是屬於恐怖攻擊很低的國家所以當時我猜你們在編列小局書的時候並沒有把這一項恐怖攻擊放進去但我想部長和署長今天我們確實面對的不見得是恐怖攻擊可是它確實也是重大的 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3536.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3564.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
暴力重大人為維安事件未來我們是不是可以考慮把這麼重要的指引如果小局書要繼續精進的時候可以放在裡面把這麼重要的跑躲縮這樣的指引讓更多人知道感謝委員支持我們在下一次在更新版的時候會放到裡面去我想這個沒有人想看到危險但既然它發生了我們就應該要有自救自保的能力所以在這裡強烈的建議內政部下一次可以提出這樣的建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3567.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3572.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
好謝謝委員好謝謝蘇協會委員的發言接下來我們請張志榮委員發言好謝謝主席各位委員各位官員大家早有請劉世芳部長內政部劉世芳部長衛福部呂市長以及政署張署長謝謝好請好委員早 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3590.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3617.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
好 謝謝部長那針對這個114年12月19號北捷跟這個中山區南西站發生的這個隨機傷人及殺人事件那本席表示非常遺憾那也感謝現場第一線所有的警察消防人員以及建議有為的人員那也很感謝現在在很多的重要的這個場所以及重大的一些活動有增加警力 增加建警力非常感謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3618.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3645.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
不過我必須要說現在民眾針對這件事情覺得台灣的安全網其實是出了問題因為這次是繼政捷終捷是第三次發生嚴重的攻擊事件那我想要先請問署長因為這個嫌犯張文他是一個通緝犯他是一個叫招不到替代的通緝犯他7月開始通緝那為什麼他可以像一般人一樣一樣生活 一樣住宿 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3646.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3675.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
然後還是不是有就醫的紀錄那我想要請教一下難道這個現在通緝犯都跟一般人一樣生活來去自如嗎那為什麼會發生這樣的事情是不是警察太辛苦通緝犯也是我們查捕的對象只要一發布通緝我們是通靈全國的警察單位會去做查捕那這個也是我們警察工作任務之一我要跟署長報告一點就是說在警察在執法的時候其實他跟其他各單位是沒有做聯通的 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3676.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3698.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
就是警察就只能接受110或是現場去圍捕逮捕所以早次有一些通緝犯長期以來他是沒辦法不好去做追緝的所以我是請衛福部來解釋一下他當時有沒有就醫記錄他有沒有從這段時間在通緝期間有沒有就醫過報告委員根據我們我們那個社安網我們相關的一個記錄他並沒有這個相關的那個就醫這邊只有沒有就醫沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3699.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3723.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
那 請署長那就是說這邊還是要請各公家單位協助如果他有去辦任何有跟公家單位有關的東西我是請署長這邊未來要跟其他的相關單位大家一起協力來抓捕這些通緝犯以免造成重大的問題那第二我要想請教這位張嫻 張文賢犯他民眾也很恐慌的是第一個當然我剛剛講的通緝犯會不會就在你身邊第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3724.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3741.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
這個嫌犯張文他當時帶了七把刀跟一整袋的汽油彈跟煙霧彈到了我們的北捷而且身穿戰術背心那我想要請教就針對我們現在這樣子有可能攻擊民眾這種嫌犯他在捷運站 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3742.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3757.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
這樣子來去自如 會不會讓人民造成恐慌有沒有什麼辨識跟攔查的方式本席是有一個小建議現在我們很多的監視系統是不是可以不要針對人 針對物品 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3759.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3780.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
做一些科技執法的一些動作因為我們大家最近很多委員也在請教現在很多科技執法用的都是交通罰單我們是不是說現在科技執法應該在一些重大的公共領域去針對一些有可能的嫌犯所私藏的這些有可能的攻擊的物品是不是有可能來做科技執法 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3781.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3807.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
這個部分謝謝委員的建議我覺得這個也是一個從源頭處理也就是在這個公共運輸系統比如講像高鐵捷運台鐵這一些只要進站只要是進站的這些入口是可以用AI的這個設備來對於危險物品的一個這個掀起的發現就好像我們要進入雜門你帶了裡面如果槍枝刀芥或者危險物品如果透過AI設備比較做掃描的這個設備 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3808.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3826.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
是第一時間是可以發現這些這個拜託署長不會進入到這個公共的場域那你們未來要多花多久時間來去做這樣的檢討這個部分我們大概建立交通部來做這樣的一個建立好那交通部今天不在嗎交通部交通部是不是趕快時間暫停一下交通部 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3831.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3859.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
好 交通部那當對張署長的回應您這邊有沒有什麼做法我想剛講的用AI去辨識我想這個我們回去研議一下大概要多久時間因為進口 因為它這個它那個入口的人會太多這樣的話我們考慮一下包括它進場的這個旅客對這樣的一個受的影響有沒有大概可以多久時間可以研議出來我們是不是可以給我們兩個月好嗎好 可以 謝謝好 謝謝你 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3860.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3887.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
再來我在請教署長在針對這次案件裡面其實民眾其實是有打110報案但是因為現場有煙霧所以民眾緊慌民眾會驚慌所以基本上報案的期間大概都是說因為有煙霧所以不知道嫌犯其實手上有持長刀大概30公分以上的長刀利刃所以這邊也要拜託署長這邊未來就是一樣要科技執法就是說可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3889.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3907.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
立即的告訴我們前線的執行的這個同仁說現在情況到底發生什麼樣的情況讓我們執行的同仁可以知道說現場不只是有煙霧那也是有這個長刀人等的利器的這個問題那接下來我想要請問這個衛福部的部分因為全台現在目前是有三件的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3908.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3934.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
模仿犯說可能未來就是想要模仿這個張文做相關的事情那我想請問一下不管是警政署那未來衛福部會不會針對這樣的事情如何針對這些人進行追蹤是 非常感謝委員的一個追尋我跟委員做兩個簡單的報告過去我們的社會安全網主要的對象主要都是針對貧窮 家暴 兒虐 身心障礙 藥酒 飲以及精神疾病 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3935.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3958.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
那麼這一次他顯然是一個比較特殊的我說特殊的一個意思就是說他有兩個重點第一個他是他比較屬於社會孤立另外第二個他累積了長期的這一個可能挫折那當然就是相關的動機我們警政署這邊還在理清當中但是對於這些所謂非典型我們這一次部長也指示我們現在目前會來做一個整個新案的一個檢討像包括剛剛委員您剛所說的 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3959.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
3982.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
類似像這些比較屬於所謂非典型跟高度突發性這個我們會來列入未來社安網的一個相關對象上面的一個整個審視所以用社安網繼續進行追蹤是嗎我們就是這個部分就是新案的部分我們現在目前在請專家包括也跟像警大陣營這邊那你們大概要多久時間演繹出來我們現在目前正在做相關的檢視大概有沒有時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
3985.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4009.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
我們現在那個 能不能三個月好不好三個月時間 好 謝謝再請內政部部長部長 游部長這次的案件裡面其實跟過去的這個犯案裡面本席覺得比較差異的是這次不是一次攻擊他是當時在北捷攻擊完以後第二次又到南溪的這個成品附近做攻擊他這也是兩次的攻擊 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4010.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4036.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
那中間其實也隔了一個多小時的時間所以這邊我要想要請教部長來協助的是其實我們很多民眾在討論說是不是未來可以發這個細胞簡訊的部分因為這個嫌犯他當時是用步行的一個狀況那不管他在北車或者是在這個南西的這個狀況的時候其實民眾當時都不知道發生什麼事情可是就我們過去我們國家其實在針對一些重大災害不管是地震 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4037.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4054.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
颱風的時候都有發這個細胞簡訊那這個部分是不是可以請部長講一下說未來是不是有機會遇到這種重大的攻擊事件的時候有沒有怎麼樣的狀況可以來發細胞簡訊報告委員 按照目前的機制的話地方政府他們所發的細胞簡訊以疏散撤離為主 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4055.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4067.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
那如果蘇贊撤離的時候呢必須要有相對的參數所謂的相對參數譬如說有颱風警報或者有地震警報或者大雨警報或者是相關的這些科學性的數據我們才能知道說他細胞簡訊要發給誰有多大的範圍 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4070.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4098.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
這次就像北捷他可以發就是周邊用電訊的話發大概幾公里但是不曉得嫌犯現在跑到哪裡去也就是說他整個範圍是以台北車站為主還有跑到中山站或是跑到中山站上面的南西那你整個發下去的話第一個會不會引起其他的不必要的恐慌因為大家不曉得發生什麼事那如果你能夠確定CBS所發的簡訊非常清楚是發生什麼事情的話我相信民眾收到這樣的簡訊當然可以達到疏散撤離的效果 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4098.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4117.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
但是如果你的相對參數沒有那麼明確的話反而會造成其他更多的疑問但是我剛有提到這個相對的程序是有的如果市政府覺得有這個需求那跟行政院的這個災防辦來提出這樣的要求那他們會做比較好的評估所以這個發細胞簡訊的主管機關是誰 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4118.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4141.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
就行政院的災防辦因為蔣萬事長其實也有特別有提到最近有提到說未來不排除發氣包簡訊來提供民眾但是我剛剛跟委員報告過程序不是問題而是你在啟動或作動的時候是由誰來發動這個才是需要參考很多不同國家的狀況台北市政府沒辦法自己發動一定要到行政院來去做沒有沒有不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4141.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4168.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
不是發動的話當然地方政府可以發動就是他如果程序完成沒有問題我是說要發動是由誰來發動是什麼事情你要提出來譬如說我們像這次馬太安溪他要發動的時候是由農業部因為他主管的是跟這個土石流跟大規模的這個崩塌有關那這個是指什麼事情要能夠明確的定義清楚如果你明確定義不清楚沒有辦法界定範圍的話引起不必要的猜測跟恐慌更何況人潮洶湧來來去去人不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4170.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4175.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
就好像譬如說地震四級的時候四級地震的範圍有多大那這樣國科會就知道四級地震大概涵蓋的範圍是多大那你這次的範圍你不曉得嫌犯到哪裡去啊你也不曉得最後在哪裡 發生什麼事我們是希望時間要求快但是在處理的過程當中可能要做審慎的研議 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4190.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4213.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
那最後還是要跟這個最後兩個問題第一個就是說其實現在社會常常動盪不安警察同仁非常忙碌所以當時為什麼我們在立法院在今年1月7號三讀通過要警察人事條例第35條修正幫警察跟消防人員的所得替代率上升到80%重點就是要保障高風險的警消人員的一些福利 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4213.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4232.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
那行政院現在沒有編列預算本席還是要這邊呼籲行政院依法行政編築預算給警消應有的尊嚴跟保障那最後剛剛蘇喬業委員也特別請教劉部長關於這本這個全民安全指引這個小局書這個部分剛剛署長部長也特別提到說這裡面有關於這個類似這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4236.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4261.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
國內的這種傷人跟恐怖攻擊類似恐怖攻擊的事件其實這本書裡面是沒有太強調裡面的這個內容所以本席還是要拜託部長這個要加強內容那最後這邊我要跟你們報告這個是基層的反應就是基層的公務人員他會發現他回到這個辦公室發現裡面有一整疊的這個小局書放在機關裡面然後還特別這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4264.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4288.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
這個請這個基層公務單位說請帶回家保管切勿丟棄在垃圾桶裡面這意思就是說什麼咧就是我要必須講這個當時不是說這個家戶一人一本嗎那為什麼現在就要全部一整疊放在機關裡面所以最後這個我還是要我們要去看一下鄉鎮市公所是不是沒有負責任把它放到家戶裡面這個是放在機關裡面的啦這是放在機關裡面然後要他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4290.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4318.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
沒有發放到機關所以我還是要請這個部長去了解這個就是說明明就已經拜託林里長就是挨家挨戶的放在這個家戶裡面請告訴我們在哪個縣市我們馬上來追查這個是人家這個陳情的啦就是希望說這個是不是當時是印太多了我們還是呼籲一下鄉鎮公所的村里長沒有 他沒有是在公務機關裡面在公務機關裡面就放一整疊在公務機關裡面要這些公務人員去拿 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4318.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4343.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
他們說人家一人去拿一本那也要求他們說不要丟在廁所那顯然危機意識不夠我們希望還是村里幹事能夠盡力的去發放而且我們有一套機制好 謝謝部長所以最後還是要拜託部長就是說這個小局書裡面小局書裡面的內容所以還是要增進那第二個還是要向公務人員尤其辛苦的警察消防人員的待遇我們還是要一起來加油 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4344.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4361.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
尤其是現職的警消人員 希望委員能夠多多支持您剛講的是退休警員 跟這個不太有正相關這個不管退休跟現役我們都要幫忙那委員如果支持小局書 我們明年會再出新版好 加油謝謝張志倫委員的發言 接下來我們請王美惠再演 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4371.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4377.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
主席 我們家內政部 我們家經濟事務委員好姚部長 張署長保庭 署長 委員長今天要講到這個問題 說實在我相信每一個人都心肝很痛苦的尤其我們建設長久以來為社會 治安的怕病說實在 我們的建設也很辛苦所以剛才保庭說的 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4401.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4410.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
現任的 現在的環境不同說實在 我們的警察比以前五年前 十年前所做的 現任的 加倍的加倍的辛苦啦 是不是所以在這裡 我覺得說我們現任的 這裡的警察人員 我們要 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4426.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4433.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
因為說實在 任何人都沒有願意看到那天在台北發生的事情但是我們今天是要討論 我們最不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4444.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4448.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
我們討論說未來如果發生的時候我們要怎麼處理啦我們現在不是要說中央地方什麼人的資金啦有什麼問題我們要提出來討論才對啦像剛才我們這個小集數我相信沒有人知道那天拜五的報台北會發生什麼事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4471.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4476.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
所以說在這個過程我們也要 剛才補充說的說我們每年應該會再贏 會再贏的當中要如何家鄉裡面所有人可以大家有鼓勵和了解像補充最近你們也要去 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4495.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4501.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
地方的所在下去申請稅我們雖然裡面沒有很多說啊 看來事情我們要怎麼 議員要怎麼做啊但是我們去當地申請的時候可以再加強稅每年我們再加強稅這個是最重要的補充 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4520.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4524.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
那個 我要說因為跟署長剛才我們說的大家都看電視看說 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4529.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4532.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
因為我們台北是最熱鬧的地方嘛山鐵公共我們家裡有家裡的鐵路的建設我們家裡有鐵路的建設要不然我們新北的捷運我們有捷運的建設要不然事情發生的時候 署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4556.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4564.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
事情發生的時候 那天是怎麼分配 怎麼去處理尤其白社跟電視都說我們有煙霧彈的時候 電視都沒有靜音的音再來 我們火焰的時候 我們警察的無線電都沒有聽到 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4582.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4591.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
這是什麼關係是臨危現在的生活太方便太自由 大家都不去義工是不是你如果不去做這個臨時有什麼應該要改進 應該要處理的來 書長你回答一下謝謝委員那天的佩潔那個地方發生煙霧彈跟汽油彈 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4610.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4626.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
那我們了解那個北極是有廣播跟警報有警報另外剛才說的那不算 那是遙縮的那個無線系統是通的 沒有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4626.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4632.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
沒有問題所以說不說這個這個有些怎麼樣的報導還是什麼樣的其實要以官方的這個我們的都會去做了解那不通我們的同仁道場我的道場 師長還有一件在這個派人所在的所在裡面有幾張有錄影的時候有海景沒辦法看到的這是團算的還是事實的 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4655.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4657.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
剛才吳議員問過 執行公司有一座監視器是被判了 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4662.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4668.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
跟派去派外顧你知不知道這可能要派外顧捷運公司來說 但是我們第一時間在調情我告訴你 我在記者會上我們這個監視器 大家所有的地方都說 我的監視器差不多大家90% 99%認真啊 地方我上車要調的時候 他去也派 他去也派啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4689.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4693.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
所以署長在這個派人的當中我們要找這個派人是不是有牽扯到這個地方的時候我們要去查有一點合法嗎來 署長你回答署長 那個飛機監視器是很重要因為那個管理的單位不是那種警察的單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4714.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4717.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
因為我懷孕已經監視器當然是我第一時間就是要已經編制身份嘛所以我還要往外圍調不是你們的單位 要不然社會的第一是大家要共同來處理的 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4729.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4734.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
未來這塊可能橫向的相關的這個聯繫要更加的加強 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4759.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4765.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
我們沒有在分數沒有在分數喔沒有在分數喔你不要說我先不是 我的意思就是說把那個分清楚分得清楚就是說因為沒有啦 署長平常是你們就要去訓練要去啦一年訓就好了啦不是發生事情要來訓的時候太慢了啦像這個派人煮鴨脯3點40幾分 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4788.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4800.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
九六點多還要做什麼事啦署長今天我們如果有聯合會做的時候我相信在陳平鄉應該不會發生這樣的事情啦所以說實在我常常說都是正常人給不正常的害死啦像這次也這樣這次也這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4817.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4831.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
你看一個好人站在天堂、車廂那就是這我們要早去處理的可能會讓他不用去到產品站來發生事情因為這種的充容我們不知道我們要趕快去做的時候可能可以上海港去 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4843.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4855.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
很久了 署長因為我認為事情發生不是要求什麼人是願望 要求我們現在要怎麼去整理這裡的事情我也是祈禱說我們台灣可以平安可以地安好檢控這種的 剛才我們衛福部說跟這種的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4873.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4883.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
也有很多 老實說像他很多時候都不去看病我們哪知道醫院的問題在哪裡所以說社會這個問題實在有很多所以師長 本身要跟你說我們的精神 我們的花粉事情發生的時候我們要怎麼做那是重點啦 保證 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4902.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4905.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
因為現在已經台北發生這樣了你們已經有三遍開火了現在就是說我們要先演練 不能說事情發生之後我們要來處理什麼 要處理什麼都不會有 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4921.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4927.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
我問我們的市長、我們的部長 尤其是剛才衛福部的說我們要來研議 這裡的人要怎麼去處理 我覺得這要趕緊去研議 因為他沒有教育跟有的出民大會 也看那個怪怪 跟補也不好有時候還要叫 叫 叫這真的很多人 部長、市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4948.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4950.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
這出民黨會有很多人 但是現在衛福部會覺得他沒有報案 他沒有發生事情他在民黨裡面沒辦法處理 這也有的所以我覺得今天的問題就是我們要如何去防範這個問題你看3點多 發生到5點 6點那真的很囂張 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4978.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4985.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
謝謝黃美惠召委的說明確實這個讓人很難過希望相當會有能夠繼續教訓那接下來我們請黃捷委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5008.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5011.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
好 謝謝主席 我們請內政部劉部長 警政署張署長請劉部長 張署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5017.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5040.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
好 部長好 署長好今天講這個事情是真的很沉重啦然後大家也都覺得發生這樣的憾事非常的難過那我希望今天我們的討論不是要檢討任何的個人因為確實這個事件發生了三小時那中間從縱火三個地方到後來去北捷丟煙霧彈再到中山站持刀攻擊人 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5041.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5069.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
那其實這三個小時內大家一直在討論這個時間差到底是怎麼回事那其實我知道基層員警壓力也很大包括昨天那個所長第一時間也有出來說明那看起來他真的壓力非常大那我在這邊不希望說大家檢討這件事情絕對不是因為任何一個基層員警不夠努力大家都很努力那我們今天討論的是制度上到底有沒有可以補足的環節未來不要再發生這樣的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5070.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5098.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
那第一個我先問一下這個即時通報啦因為確實他在三個小時內連續犯案而且前面是先在林森東路再去長安東路最後又到他的租屋處縱火完之後沒想到兩個小時內跑到北車丟完煙霧彈還是沒有抓到他也第一時間讓他繼續跑然後他中間還可以回到他的旅館再換裝再拿東西再到中山站拿長刀殺人 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5099.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5110.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
那中間這三個小時剛剛署長你說你們第一個時間在四分鐘六分鐘就已經有警察趕到現場了但是沒有逮到他是這樣子嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5111.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5140.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
最主要就是趕到現場的時候一定要確定身份那我們第一時間就是從這個專報裡面有提到說他中午的時候中山分局是有在17點40分就知道他的身份通緝有到派員到桃園去查捕但是這個嫌犯就持續在做案中午之後大概他到住處去中午那緊接著就是又來做北捷的中午丟煙霧彈 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5141.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5160.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
那北捷那個時間開始知道他犯難的時間是17點23分那我們的同仁在6分鐘就到達現場到現場的時候是煙霧一片只知道說丟 只知道是煙霧但是不知道身份那第一次確認身份就趕快去調位這些的監視器 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5161.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5177.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
那我們發現他現場是戴這個防毒面具的跑的時候才脫掉那透過這件事才知道跟縱火的比對才知道確定是同一個身份我想警方到達現場是跟時間在做賽跑 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5179.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5198.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
時間在做賽跑就是說盡快找到嫌犯的身份確定他逃逸的方向來進行做一連串的一個通報跟追捕這三件事情他從縱火然後到丟煙霧彈再到持刀殺人請問各轄區之間的員警有任何橫向聯繫嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5199.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5220.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
這個是有通報 那我想就這樣子 就是這個案其實我可以在這裡講 因為目前的 因為資訊我覺得要讓大家了解這個案是 他是有計劃型的隨機襲擊的事件從他的計劃書裡面 他所計劃的這一些的點跟內容是相同的 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5221.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5237.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
是一個他計畫中的一個隨機殺人包括北極包括中山站都是在他的計畫裡面那這個部分我們現在當然在了解他的這個動機那初步現在的這個狀況我們在因為人已經已經他已經死了嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5238.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5256.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
我們現在在了解各種跡象他到底是什麼樣的一個動機那我們從這個有一些的資料現在還在解讀當中那我們現在有解讀出來了有發現因為台北市已經有發布有發現他是一個按照計劃的一個隨機 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5260.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5275.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
襲擊的一個事件那看起來他常去瀏覽尤其是瀏覽政界的這個狀況所以我們也有做這樣的研判是一個模仿的一個行為在精進版的一個一個隨機襲擊的一個行為 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5277.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5297.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
好 謝謝署長說明我必須要講啦因為他三個小時內用了三種不同類型的方案的型態所以很顯然各轄區之間並沒有發現說這是同一人所為然後他又跨區所以我是希望接下來指揮調度如果各轄區可以更緊急的彼此通報說很可能是同一人所為 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5298.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5322.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
那或許我們可以加快時間或許他還來不及進行下一次的犯案你們就可以在前面幾個小時就可以先處理掉而不會讓他整個犯案時間長達三個小時這是我要這邊拜託署長的讓第一時間第一線的員警就可以掌握情況這個非常非常重要第二個關於通訊的問題剛剛其實你也有回答說所以沒有說北捷的警察現場無線電是不通的情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5325.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5327.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
也沒有說他們因為無線電不通而造成他們沒有辦法掌握台北捷運的情況是這樣子嗎我們依據台北市的這個調查是沒有無線電不通的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5337.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5363.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
因為在網路上盛傳我也希望署長在這邊明確的闢謠也好告訴大家你們無線電系統設備這方面是沒有問題的也好因為網路上都說其實北捷的捷運系統他們北捷在巡邏的時候無線電就很常不通了還有人說這個什麼長期失靈我不知道到底有沒有這樣的情況請署長鄭重說明我想沒有這個問題因為北捷那個捷運的警察是有到場的 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5364.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5368.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
那無線電失靈就情侶沒辦法運作馬上就會知道了我想要在這裡做屁是沒有這個問題是每天生活的情侶的一個最重要的工具那不通平常就沒辦法執行了所以網路上在導傳說現場無線電不通我想說這很嚴重這不可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5384.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5408.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
好那第三個關於警力的配置跟人力負荷的問題因為大家也在檢討說是不是北捷的警察的配置人力不足因為大家討論說北捷其實有117個站但是總共外勤的員警只有168個那如果兩個人一組然後加上輪班的執勤在這117個站的警察大概不到80個 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5410.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5425.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
那會不會太少這個覆蓋率夠嗎請署長說明這個部分對於這個配置以及這個勤務的一個平均力也就是說他到場的一個平均力這個部分我們會來再去做檢討跟精進 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5427.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5455.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
那當然除了人力不足是一個很嚴重的問題之外當然勤務的分配也要拜託署長回去再檢討真的有太多警察都說有很多無謂的勤務啊然後很多其實導致他們在重大時間的時候沒有辦法處理重大優先的事情我希望可以回去精進這個部分讓警察可以著重在重要的業務上那最後一點我還是要幫基層的員警請命喔很多基層的警察跟我說 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5456.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5472.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
他們很多基本的配備都是自己買的到現在還是這樣包括說可能辣椒水啊包括警棍啊甚至有人連防彈背心都自己買那他們說要嘛是沒有發要嘛說是公發的這個品質真的太差 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5473.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5495.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
很常是這兩種 我想這個是這個是沒有這樣的一個狀況 我想我們就基層員警跟我講的什麼叫沒有這樣的情況就很多人跟我說他連密錄器也自己買辣椒水也自己買甚至好一點的警棍好一點的防彈背心可能都還要自己想辦法找到更好的他個人的行為啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5496.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5501.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
不是個人的行為我要我希望警政署當基層員警最強的後盾你們要給他們勇氣給他們當他們的後盾最好的方式就是給他們最好用我們的武器裝備設備都一定是會最安全然後會公發發給我們同仁來使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5513.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5537.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
那有些比如講像你的防彈衣你那個沒有透過測試你自己去買那是不安全的那我們公發的是透過這些測試安全的這個裝備那當然有些的這個個人使用的裝備我們未來就是為因應同等的使用的一個相關的便利性來做更加的一個加強的一個這樣的一個的裝備的一個購買 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5541.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5569.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
好 拜託署長正視這個問題給基層員警最好的工具 好不好謝謝好 謝謝黃婕委員的質詢接下來我們請張宏祿委員來 我請內政部劉部長 警政署長還有交通部務政次請你上 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5573.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5601.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
我們今天大家都用沉痛的心情來這邊質詢我想先請教署長在這一次在台北車站裡面發生了這件事情我想問一下台北車站這一棟大樓裡面高鐵是什麼警察負責?高鐵是鐵路警察局然後呢?台北市政府警察局 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5601.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5615.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
然後呢 車站的大廳呢車站大廳是鐵路警察局車站的外面呢台北市政府警察局就同一棟大樓有三個單位在負責是不是這樣兩 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5619.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5638.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
兩個單位啦就是鐵路前台北市政府檢察局那你捷運檢察局咧那台北市的也是啊我對啊就兩個單位是兩個單位但台北市政府就管起來兩個單位了嘛對不對一個捷運檢察局一個外面的一般警察嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5638.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5641.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
所以其實以前就有說過同樣一個這樣子其實問題會很多 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5656.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5679.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
那像這一次的事件我個人是認為有的人主張像什麼就要發什麼細胞簡訊或什麼我個人認為這還有商圈不過如果像有這種事情發生的時候我們警察的系統裡面能不能自己發給自己警察系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5681.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5694.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
現在有什麼特殊情況發生 怎麼樣怎麼樣第一時間讓他們知道因為你們除了無線電之外我覺得這個也是另外一個然後也讓所有的警察都知道包括幹部 包括基層警察 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5695.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5715.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
委員這個沒問題了一發生我們就通報了就是說橫向聯繫的各相關單位所以我在第一時間我就通報不是只有通報台北市通報全國因為它是一個流動的啦我知道啦你的通報但現在很多人會覺得你們的通報好像有點小小的瑕疵嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5716.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5741.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
對不對剛剛有委員在質詢我們都有聽到我只問啦這樣子可不可以啦有沒有可能做得到啦有沒有必須做到啦我想我們的警察單位對於發生這個案件那除了除了就是說當地的這個圍捕之外其他做招臨近的我們的警察機關跟外勤的執勤統領是會做通報的不 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5745.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5762.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
我剛剛說的如果細胞簡訊給所有警察你覺得有沒有需要做到就是用手機的細胞的這種對啦有沒有再必要再加強這個我想我們的實務面可能最快的還是以無線電這樣來通報會最快不見得他當時拿的手機 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5766.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5785.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
就這個 這個可能要再研究好啦 沒關係你回去研究啦你的無線電通報我不相信坐在裡面的警察局局長他一定都有收到他的無線電他有隨時配在身邊嗎報告員那個通報是勤子中心會通報通報之後就會報告這個就是會有落差嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5787.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5804.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
對不對你敢承認沒有落差嗎你敢說都沒有落差嗎我想這個一定是我們的規範這個是我們的是啦現在就跟你講補不足的地方嘛有沒有需要你回去研究那這部分我們拿回去研究再來這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5808.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5822.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
有沒有 我們台灣雖然對這個突發狀況我也不認為這個是要把它界定成恐怖攻擊了因為台灣在恐怖攻擊裡面排名還是很那個也不算是恐怖攻擊但我們要有危機意識 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5824.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5847.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
我請交通部上來就是說交通部我們未來有沒有透過AI透過什麼我們只要在任何車站或什麼我們不要去辨識人也不要辨識如果有騷動有快速的人群的移動或什麼的我們這個馬上AI系統然後就可以連結警察然後這樣子來讓警察第一時間也可以掌握 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5848.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5867.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
對 我想這部分做不做得到我想剛有關心到這個問題我想我剛提到我們大概兩個月後我們也會後續去看因為過去我們其實曾經曾經要想做一些影像的辨識你們在台中的豐原火車站其實就有這套設備了嘛但是那時候對不對因為監察也有 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5868.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5896.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
是啦 因為是因為人權嘛那我們現在不是要你去做人臉做什麼辨識嘛對特殊的情況一發生馬上 其實AI現在都可以處理啦對不對 有人群的騷動有火有什麼的馬上就可以跟警察連線啊是 這個我們來做研議好不好剛剛講的 因為在這個人權這個之間 取得一個平衡我剛剛提到也跟那個前面我也提到我們兩個也去做一個研議這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5898.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5926.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
好 這個我特別請你上來 就是署長你有沒有覺得如果未來有這套系統然後讓警察也第一個時間掌握你覺得這樣子會不會比較好我覺得很好很好啦 好那再來啦每次發生的像這種事情哇 基層警察承受的壓力也很大啦剛剛這個委員有質詢有什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5928.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5952.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
署長 我們現在警察的基本教育基本的訓練有沒有特別像這種我再說一次不算恐怖攻擊但這種隨機這一種的我們有沒有在我們的警察從不管警專警大我們上課裡面有沒有特別教這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5954.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5968.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
實務上對於這個重大人安的一個這個狀況那我們警察單位是有在做這個訓練的那未來這個的狀況我們把這個重大人的 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5969.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
5992.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
我直接講啦 有沒有可能把未來像這種的列入基本的課材基本的要 會 一定會一定會 會把它列入課材這應該很快吧 不管是在警專或警大會列為這個警察實務的這個教材對嘛 應該馬上就可以要求了嘛馬上就可以做了嘛我希望能夠做到這一點啦不要讓基層的警察遇到這個 你看 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
5994.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6003.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
他有心要保護人民但他可能對這些基本的他可能也沒遇過啊上課也沒教啊我覺得一定要教啦好不好可以嗎可以我最後 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6008.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6030.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
全世界各國的警察他的職務的內容其實都不一樣署長你應該很清楚像以色列的警察對這種恐怖攻擊或什麼的他是基本職責是不是對嘛那其實美國還有很多國家慢慢的警察其實都基本職責都有這些了吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6031.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6054.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
是吧所以台灣雖然不是受恐怖攻擊這種國家但我們要預防於未來還有像這種突發狀況我們的警察我希望在他上課的時候就都要教他要讓他有這個基礎的素養可以嗎可以我們都希望他每個同仁都有防恐的這個素養 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6056.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6075.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
對啦 他不只保護人民也要保護警察自己啊第一線衝鋒的人你不讓他有這種基本的訓練跟認知你是害他亂衝而已啊你要保護我們基層的安全嘛 好不好好 那明年可以開始了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6075.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6092.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
可以 我們會以這個案件做一個案例就是會加強這些署長我的意思不是這樣不是以這個案例我的意思是說你去看全世界有那麼多以色列什麼的你去拿人家的教材你就把它當成基本的我們會來訓練可以 明年部長要說 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6102.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6106.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
其實反恐跟防恐教育在警察是屬於專業警察 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6131.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6148.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
那這次呢有媒體上面看到基層警員上面這樣子的一個情緒上我也是有慰問他我認為說警察的正辦就是做好我們警察的要務那有人會推崇你那也許有人也會有不同的聲音但是我們做我們應該做的事情這是警察的責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6149.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6175.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
沒有錯啦你看我今天的質詢我從來沒有說警察我還是替他們說話他們的辛苦很多人不知道但我們要做他最充足的後備從開始進入學校然後到現在我們要讓我們未來的我們的警察弟兄有這些基本的常識有這些基本的訓練那也保護他的安全也保護全國人民的安全那請委員支持檢討的預算我最支持啦謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6180.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6192.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
謝謝張宏祿委員的資訊 接下來我們請李柏鈺委員發言警政署張署長有請張署長委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6198.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6218.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
謝謝 署長那個所有案情的部分如果說已經公開的可以講的部分再來請署長多對社會說明我這幾天其實都不敢在家裡都不敢開電視小朋友看了這個電視我覺得有一些畫面才實在是太可怕尤其是那個歧視等等的但是我 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6219.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6238.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
一直專注到一個畫面就是我們剛剛也有其他委員也有質詢就是我們的同仁大概我看到一共好像有七個到八個左右進入到這個成品的那個樓梯間要這個嫌犯進去大概前後時間離了大概三分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6240.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6256.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
就很多人檢討包含我想有很多基層員檢討就是可能我也看到中山所的所長說難道一定要有警察的死傷 受傷大家才會給予警察關懷嗎大家比較想要講的就是我看到的好像是一個狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6258.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6274.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
在我們的消防法在修法的時候我們也都希望消防人員進入火場之前整個火場的狀況有沒有化學物質有沒有什麼危險物質消防人員要知道要知道怎麼樣來控制這一場火警 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6276.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6297.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
當時的警員知不知道我們裡面發生的狀況他有什麼武器包含我們去的人剛剛署長也有很詳細的說明有的是剛從交通哨剛下來或者是有的剛下班去到現場應該要怎麼樣處置我想這些都是讓社會大眾為或者是我們基層員警為他們的同仁 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6298.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6313.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
捏了一把冷汗的原因在這裡那署長這些相關的這些說明然後包含你剛剛也有說在無線電上面的這些資訊現場的掌握程度我們未來的改進方向署長要不要做一個說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6314.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6330.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
對 那謝謝委員就是警察去處理的狀況最重要就是現場的狀況資訊一定要明確一定要明確以便於我們同時的攜帶的裝備跟處置這個部分未來一定是會再加強訓練 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6331.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6351.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
那對於這些裝備的一個平常的一個一個保養跟維持這些討戰這個一定是會去做管理可能有兩個三個同仁他們是有配槍的可能會在前面後面警棍的可能會在後面等等的這些臨時突發的狀況不是做第一線的因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6354.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6381.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
他們是掌握這個第一時間給他領裝備給他們那個又跑了我覺得其實也謝謝委員今天對我們警察的肯定也謝謝我們那位首長的這個把這個當時的這個狀況我們一心一念就是為了我們民眾要防止其他的傷害為了警察的這個使命去做這件事情那當然就好像我們這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6383.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6402.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
北捷那個奮勇的那個那個余先生其實如果說他當時是知道是躲跟跑那這個是可以維護他的生命如果說在知道歹徒的狀況他是不應該去做這件事我們是非常遺憾真的是遺憾那警察的心態 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6403.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6409.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
其實也跟這個余先生也不亞於這個未來我覺得就是說我們警政的這個工作對於訊息的正確一定要正確然後處置的這個其他的裝備各方面能夠第一時間能夠去做一個應用這個部分未來可能要加強來做一個訓練 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6423.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6447.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
謝謝署長其實總統在隔天其實也到去跟你們了解這些案情那其實政府現在最重要包含警政署現在最重要的事情就是要安民心接下來耶誕然後接下來跨年接下來過年前這麼多的這些活動要怎麼樣安民心那我講一下比如說當時 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6450.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6474.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
雖然我們警政署現在我們台灣現在是恐攻低度危險的國家但是其實在我心裡我把它定位成台灣型的恐攻那面對這種恐攻其實剛剛部長有講我們有保字頭的保警類那保警類在我們去年度審保二預算的時候其實我們就針對國家重點重要設施的這些相關的這些配備 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6475.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6492.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
我們給予高度的支持讓警政署可以做這一方面的採購就是國家韌性各縣市政府的保安警察隊其實我也建議警政署要在接下來的這些大型的活動裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6493.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6521.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
要讓人民看到讓人民看到政府對這些活動的安全的用心那這些保安警察大隊等等的我們對於他們的這些相關設備預算的支持我們也是給足那希望可以在活動現場內都可以讓人民看到我們有這個決心之外那給予警察同仁相關的這些足夠的配備這也是我們必須要支持的 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6522.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6537.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
好謝謝委員那我們這個為因應就是一直到像年底跨年或者耶誕甚至過年期間我們在禮拜六跟禮拜天部長跟我本人就是對於 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6538.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6562.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
總共有22個警察局的局長對這樣的一個盤點跟計畫那未來就是會對這個現場的這個委員家長這個部署同時我們中央跟地方委一起來努力如果地方的這個警力不足我們中央也會來做支援那同時也會納入社會的體系比如講像這些的民力民防疫警疫交以及保全 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6564.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6589.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
共同來參與那我們一定是讓會場整個的維安讓民眾能夠心安那我們會展現決心跟能力來執行這樣的一個工作其實大家沒有注意其實在今年度從10月以後在美國在澳洲都有發生一些這些類似恐怖攻擊的事件但是因為他們的國家比較特殊他們槍枝多 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6591.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6617.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
就澳洲那一起好像超過10個人以上罹難那也有一對夫妻他是想要去把他槍搶下來但是很不幸的這一對夫妻就是第一對罹難的那所以面對所有的這些危險的時候如果手上沒有武器那真的逃躲第三個才戰那希望警察警政署可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6617.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6626.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
充足我們所有警察同仁第一線警察同仁的這些設備配備那第一時間可以保護到所有人民的安全謝謝 謝謝委員謝謝李博義委員的質詢接下來我們請麥玉珍委員發問謝謝主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6646.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6664.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
各位同仁大家好 執行時間有限但還是先請大家借給我10秒鐘為這次北捷的中山商圈隨機殺人案件無辜罹難的民眾以及建議勇為的市民默哀10秒鐘謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6675.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6680.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
謝謝大家有請我們的警政署署長有請張署長委員好署長好為什麼要這樣做是我們每天經過的路啦真的 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6697.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6716.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
這一次北捷中山商圈隨機殺人的事發當下嫌犯頭戴防堵面罩身上也穿了背心防制背心又拖著一整箱的煙霧彈這麼明顯突兀的裝扮走進北捷站 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6721.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6744.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
無人發現盤查讓他先在台北車站丟煙霧彈並車傷見義勇為的市民後再採用步行的方式花了一個小時徒行徒步走向中山山圈繼續在承平南西店作案這段時間警方 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6747.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6773.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
應接後多起通報分批前往無法待一滴時間掌握犯險的行蹤阻止傷亡擴大我們未來還有什麼能夠改進的措施或者制度另外作案用M18的煙霧彈並非一般民生用品 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6774.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6790.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
要請教我們警方是否已經掌控他熟悉的管道還有說必要從源頭與網路的平台加強管制避免危險物品流入社會 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6791.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6809.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
基層警方已經非常辛苦了我們不是責怪而是要補制度的漏洞我們要請署長就是具體的說明未來如何讓警方更早一步也讓人民更安心一步 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6810.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6834.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
好 謝委員我想任何的這個案件能夠第一時間去做這個處置防止那我剛才也都提過就是說有發現狀況有報案 報案要快我們的同仁到場要快 處置要快那能夠防止這些這個狀況往外去做一個更不可預控的情形 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6835.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6857.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
那為所提的就是這個煙霧彈的這個狀況我們目前初步了解他是從網路上過的就是網路過的那至於這個煙霧彈目前不是管制物品不是管制物品那未來我們可能也會做來研究是不是在從源頭來做管理比如講像登記制什麼這類這個我們來做研究 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6859.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6886.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
很好因為我們希望是說有什麼措施什麼就是制度還有就是要管制不管是地方還是網路所以呢因為雖然是目前已經提高就是說決應站的見景率加強我們巡查但依照目前調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6887.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6909.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
就是犯嫌以刻意模仿2014年的北捷隨機殺人案要請教我們的署長 第一對於這類具高度模仿的風險也可依側行為模式的重大公共安全的案件警政署是否張 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6912.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6927.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
重疊的特徵 納入常態性例行性的警務風險評估還有就是刑防的制度 第二如何避免社會警惕逐漸下降後讓模範案就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6931.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6956.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
有可趁之機 早空窗期第三 圖了提高建警力警政署是否已經有跨捷運警政社會安全網的長期長期的預設防範策略而不是就是現在發生短期的加強 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6958.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6973.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
有沒有委員那我想對於這個這個案件我們現在初步看起來是有模仿這個政協的這個狀況那這些都是我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
6974.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
6988.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
對遠景訓練的一個就是未來執勤的一個教育的方式不管在訓練裝備或演練我們會朝這樣方面來做制度上的一個精進 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
6989.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7011.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
那第二部分就是說方針案件之後我們希望我們的國人不要去做模仿我們這段期間你有發現大概有目前為止有22件的在網路上的這個有這樣的一個狀況那我們對這樣的一個行為我一定要就是要跟全國人民這個是犯法的 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7011.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7036.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
所以我們現在目前只要是國內的到目前已經超過三個來移送偵辦這個是會影響我們的社會民心我們也呼籲我們國人不要去以身試法也不要把它當作一個稀釋如果說當作稀釋但是你這個狀況也是違法的第三個部分就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7038.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7065.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
這個案件我們當然去會檢討整體那這個整體的狀況當然還有一些治本的一個狀況比如剛剛所提的社會安全網那就是要從根本要跟其他我們會結合其他相關部會來一起來解決我們這個類似這些高風險的這些反社會人格的這種狀況來及早的做應驗跟預防或者是去做處置那我們檢方這個區塊是 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7068.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7075.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
案件發生之後我們去做處置那源頭的部分我們會結合其他相關部會來一起努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7077.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7098.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
好 謝謝因為要用多一點時間讓我們的署長去回應我們希望今天聽到的就是可以有可持續可複製制度化的防範方案這樣的話讓人民更安心所以才讓你多講一點時間 不好意思再請我們的衛福部的次長再給我一點時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7110.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7130.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
委員好市長好我們都認同基本的警察真的很辛苦所以政府更加強做到的就是預防剩餘治療社會安全網的計畫從民國107年的推動現在已經升級到 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7131.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7133.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
2.0了但是發生這樣子的BG仍然發生所以非常遺憾的也高度的關注所以我們這名嫌犯過去是否準備納入社會安全網的列管和關懷的對象 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7151.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7172.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
非常感謝委員的一個垂詢我剛剛也向委員報告本案並不是屬於社安網過去通報的機制我跟委員報告他並沒有典型通報的指標他也沒有之前任何求助的紀錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7173.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7193.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
這裡面我們也 我覺得剛剛署長也有說在源頭的部分 我們社安網這邊會來進行相關的一個檢討這裡面包括就是說 萬萬委員也知道我們的社安網的過去主要事實上是針對幾個對象典型的世界各國的社安網 包括貧窮 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7194.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7223.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
家庭暴力 兒虐 身心障礙藥酒飲 還有精神疾病這個我並然後我們在現在社安網裡面我們現在又擴充兩類第一個是獨居老人第二個是就是這一個比較可能高風險的一個家庭這裡面它的現行的通報機制譬如說我們剛剛說的就是說可能社會孤立等等這些部分我們會來本部會來加強這方面的一個演繹 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7224.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7237.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
好好謝謝我們市長如果沒有就是我們是都沒有被列入所以因為這個原因就是導致也落掉他了所以呢我們希望的如何去加強改進還有相關單位的通報還有追蹤介入機制還有我們就是要確實的 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7247.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7250.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
啟動 避免再有更多的落網之魚 這個是我們我們想要知道的 因為時間的關係 最後就是我要強調的說 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7257.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7286.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
對於突發這個案件後政府與社會第一要件就只有一個就是及時止血還有就是阻止傷亡的擴大迅速依法集中還有任何資訊的傳播都應以協助緊立方案穩定社會秩序的為前提而不是就是未經查證 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7287.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7289.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
採測 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7290.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7316.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
捕風抓影還有貼標籤的還有這些錯誤的信息不只無助我們的破案反而製造恐慌甚至煽動族群的仇恨傷害無辜對於網路上的一些扭曲為第五縱隊還有散播方案的身份遙遠甚至在社群平台揚言發動 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7319.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7347.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
恐攻的行為還有人還有謠言傳說犯人是陸配的新二代我們真的很肯定相關部會在第一個時間我們陸委會出面澄清也譴責有心人士藉不心這個事件激發對立更重要的是制度面必須要 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7350.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7374.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
因此本席要求警政署與衛福部針對警力的協調危機的處理社會安全網的高度風險個案的通報機制在一週內是不是可以提出檢討還有改善的計畫報告我也要提醒警力有限 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7375.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7386.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
我們的名利無從 社會安全網不是靠仇恨堆壘而是靠理性守法與彼此信任共同完成拒絕謠言停止 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7392.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7399.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
也停止要應用這樣子的話就是要真的有很多網路我覺得網路不只是造謠不只是分類還有很多讓我們覺得說這個網路的生態真的是無法無天也要社會大眾支持大家千萬別 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7412.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7433.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
就是被這樣不實的誤打全民有義務責任共同維護社會和諧避免紮身社會分化這也是我們守護台灣最基本最重要的一道防線 謝謝大家謝謝 謝謝麥玉珍委員接下來請黃建斌召委 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7444.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7470.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
謝謝主席 我們有請內政部劉部長跟警政署長署長請內政部劉部長還有警政署長署長委員好署長好 部長好首先我們本期要針對這一次這個計劃性的攻擊事件向所有的受害者以及家屬表達哀悼我們希望適者安息 傷者康復台灣一切平安我要向所有警消 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7471.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7477.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
醫護人員以及每一位互相幫忙的市民英雄朋友們表達最高的敬意 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7478.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7507.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
面對重大的治安事件我想絕對不分縣市也沒有分中央跟地方而且我們國人都非常想知道我們的政府到底做哪些的精進跟檢討這個也是本席為什麼會變更一層邀請各部會到立法院來進行專案報告我們就希望能夠跨部會來通盤檢討從悲劇中得到教訓我們希望未來這樣的憾事不要再發生 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7508.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7535.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
那另外我在這邊也要向各部會的公務同仁們致謝辛苦各位在這麼短的時間內準備相關的說明資料那國務院都非常的期盼希望聽到政府相關的說法跟作為首先我要先請教我們劉部長就是在這一次的攻擊事件當中有一位57歲的這個余家常先生勇敢挺身而出用他的生命阻止歹徒讓傷亡減低 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7536.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7560.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
那許多民眾都希望說能夠讓余先生能夠入市我們中壢市那台北市長蔣安也說會協助向中央來申請同時會在捷運一些適當的地點來設計這個紀念碑表達對余先生的敬意那因此我想要請教部長說中央是不是願意比照之前我們在花蓮救災的時候這個挖土機超人林鴻生先生以符合冒險犯難 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7561.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7575.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
壯烈承認這個要件讓余先生也能夠入市中烈池 請部長問答謝謝昭緯的關心我想昭緯跟很多委員都關心這個事情第一個我們的立場非常的清楚第一個就是我們尊重家屬 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7576.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7598.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
那再來就是這個蔣市長也提到因為在當時我也跟蔣市長提到有這樣子的部分那蔣市長也對外發言所以我們非常認同那現在的處理的方式就是因為這個余先生他好像原籍是在桃園那如果桃園市政府願意按照就是剛剛黃委員所說的產值超人這個方式的話我們會來全力協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7599.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7618.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
好 謝謝部長非常正面的回應那我相信這件事情之後絕對是我們全國國人共同的期盼我們希望內政部這邊趕快來協助來表達我們國家對這一位英雄的這個敬意那接下來我想要跟署長來反映就是在攻擊事件之後有很多人在網路上開始分娩 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7619.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7645.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
點名說 奧吉威 戈陽車站 阿台中 新光 三越這個下一個地點那種預言式的犯人那種東西造成民眾的恐慌深怕又會出現這種隨機攻擊的事件那另外網路上還有很多的表演像剛才麥曾維提到說什麼這個歹徒的媽媽是陸配啦這個還有什麼還有一個民進黨的前參選立委的參選人說這個應該是第五縱隊引發許多的側翼跟這個造謠跟進 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7648.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7670.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
那這樣子散佈恐慌讓這件事情說說這件事就是這件事是阿共的陰謀所以說警方已經公開說這個案件是我們一起一人犯案沒有共犯的問題嘛那陸委會也出面來澄清說所謂的陸配二代並不是事實這個批評他說這個是借事件來激化衝突因此本席想要請教署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7671.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7686.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
現在幫樓店館刻意的造謠的這些言論造成社會恐慌警政署是不是應該主動就來調查避免這種言論造成社會的持續動盪不安我們第一時間到今天早上6點為止發現有22件的這種造謠那已經查獲事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7691.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7709.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
那這個造謠是會造成民眾的恐慌真的是非常要不得所以我們從案件發生一直到現在都持續第一時間只要發現狀況第一個一定是要讓這個的狀況就是如果網路上有一些網路就是要下架再來就進入偵查那偵查的這部分只要是在國內的 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7710.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7717.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
一定第一時間就會查獲移送來做偵辦以遏止這種這個遙遠的這個狀況來做發生這個針對這樣的假訊息我們務必要加強來查緝我們立刻全力來做那最後一個問題我想要請我們交通部次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7735.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7758.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
那個部長跟市長先休息市長 最後一個問題本席要跟你談就是說這次事件發生的地點是在捷運系統那為了確保民眾能夠安心安全交通部這次也必須要協同其他的部會我們針對整個大眾運輸系統這個規劃相關的這個防範措施特別是針對我們台鐵那今年也發生多起暴力事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7759.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7780.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
可是我們台鐵目前的鐵路警察就減少6%那使得這個乘務人員的他的負擔安全的維護的這個壓力更重那關於這一點我想要請教我們交通部有沒有什麼因應的作為我想剛提到的話在台鐵部分他確實因為他目前主要負責的警力是鐵路警察局 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7781.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7806.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
那這部分因為他人力也不是那麼夠但是這部分我們其實有做一些包括我們的保全我們的員工另外我們針對幾個車站的部分有些可能是跟當地沒有所謂的陸警所的部分我們跟當地的地方派出所或警察局有做這樣一個聯防的機制這項我們會來持續來加強好感謝市長的回答現在本社的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7808.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7822.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
市長 其實東部地區的鐵路啊佔領跟佔領之間的距離都很長行車時間也很久是那是說真的不適宜萬一就發生這樣的衝突的事件等到外圍警察趕到現場的時候恐怕都來不及 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7823.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7839.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
那我想車廂上的這個人員絕對要有足夠的應變能力那本席有注意到新聞就是說高鐵的這個座椅可以拆下來當作盾牌來使用那我想要請教次長就是對於針對我們台鐵的這個車廂的治安的維護那尤其是針對這種長距離的這種路線有沒有相關因應的應變作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7844.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7860.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
我想我們也可以來做一下演繹剛講因為他的台鐵路線車班相當的多這部分我們會針對比較風險比較高的路段來做一些比如說有一些防備的一些措施或是設備我們來進行補強 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7861.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7880.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
市長你看像我們的東部幹線每個站點都這麼距離都這麼遠然後中途甚至經過地方他其實並沒有什麼人是那這樣真的發生問題的時候這個要先想好要不然那真的都不會有啦後來都會發生啊所以我要叫代理公司一步我們來做一下研議看怎麼來補強這一塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7882.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7897.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
市長這個因為我想大家印象還有深刻之前南緯高軌案發生的地點仿山那個地方真的荒蕪人煙那高危群真的都被處理了那我想這個絕對不是危險聳聽像這一次的這個恐攻的這個攻擊事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7898.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
7918.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
真的沒有人想到會發生這種事情所以我們相關部門真的要防範於未來我們建物給一份的輸客我們變成給一份安全那本期最後一個提出一些具體的建議就是說我想請內政部 警政署 交通部等相關部會針對人潮密集的大眾運輸系統制定突發攻擊事件的應變SOP |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
7919.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
7946.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
那定期的舉辦過跨機關聯合演訓還有講座我們提升我們整個治安的維護的能力預防犯罪之外也要強化我們當事件發生當下的應變能力將傷害減到最低這邊要請各部會務必來競速來研議並在兩週內提供一份報告給本席的辦公室那我們希望天佑台灣希望台灣一切平安謝謝主席 謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
7948.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
7949.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
接下來我們請徐宇甄委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
7979.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
7985.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
謝謝昭緯我們請內政部劉部長跟警政署張署長請劉部長 張署長歡迎好 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
7989.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8008.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
主長好部長好我想今天其實是一個非常這個哀痛的一個日子因為19號發生這樣的一個一個隨機攻擊的事件造成我們有4死11傷的這個傷亡那當然現在還有一些傷者在這個醫院裡還在急救當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8009.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8032.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
我們當然也希望說他能夠早日康復但是這都是已經發生的事情我們現在要去找援的應該是未來要怎麼樣來去做尤其是現在大家都在質疑就是說他從嫌犯張文從3點40分在林森林森跟長安那邊縱火開始到他5點23分到北捷投放煙霧彈 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8036.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8060.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
然後再到6點37分到中山的這個成品這犯案的時間非常的長可是呢目前看起來是我們的這個整個的一個過程好像沒有辦法及時的來去反映當然我想我們的基層警力非常的辛苦那是不是在這過程中是不是因為警力不足因為我知道說我們其實捷運警察目前就是整個總共只有100 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8064.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8086.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
216位負責117站的巡邏業務那尖峰時期事實上只有42位在執勤所以顯然的就是人力是嚴重的不足那當然呢這個部分的話最重要的我想是未來的一個要怎麼面對這樣子的一個隨機殺人的事件警政署這邊有沒有研擬未來要怎麼樣來去預防 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8088.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8107.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
這個捷運隊的這個警力當然未來就是會再去因為他的戰體蠻長的就是戰場也蠻多的那當然這個每個地方都布點的警力我們再去這個平均我們會再去做再去做再去做精進那不過我是覺得可以建立就是說除了警力以外 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8108.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8138.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
就是說這個營運單位對於保全的這個增加的一個聘用也是未來一個方向中央跟地方大家要一起共同來研擬針對我們這麼大的一個運量這麼多的人員進出的一個不管是捷運站或高鐵或是這個台鐵有這麼多的人尤其是當天其實看起來是大家的尤其包括民眾的警覺性也是不夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8138.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8155.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
所以造成這樣子其實大家都看到已經看到他丟煙霧彈了到通報到後續還有到中山站去我們可以看到就是說其實大家我們的我覺得民眾的警覺性也是不足大家也必須要來在這方面我就要做一些加強來去做一些訓練那當然我想在這次的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8160.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8176.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
這個北捷的隨機攻擊事件當中我覺得大家現在最擔心的就是說可能會引發模仿效應那尤其是確實最近這幾天都有不只是網路上然後實體上也都看到有一些模仿的效應那尤其是我們這種隨機殺人的重大事件大概是7到14天是模仿行為風險最高的窗口期 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8184.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8203.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
那所以說政府必須立即啟動這個降溫的機制就是應該要避免過度重播行兇的細節不呈現動線時間點跟武器取得的方式第二個避免英雄化或妖魔化加害者不公佈姓名過度背景挖掘請問部長這兩點目前有做到嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8205.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8223.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
非常謝謝委員的提醒所以我們在週末期間已經通令也要求全台灣22個縣市的警察局包括他們的刑事局都對於這些所謂會過度渲染甚至有把這個行兇的歹徒就這個英雄化的這個部分要特別加強 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8224.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8236.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
在網路的查查跟巡邏上面的已經有看到部分的成效當然對於境外的勢力如果有透過網路來做攻擊的話我們會在第一時間內趕快做回應但是也要跟委員報告就是說我們要謝謝這兩天這個媒體來報導的時候並沒有過度渲染這個歹徒讓他英雄化變成有模仿犯我們現在要去討論的就是說未來的我剛剛講7到14天是一個高峰期就是希望能夠避免模仿 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8253.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8277.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
當然就這個部分我剛講到就是說事實上民眾的教育也很重要所以我們之前有出了一本台灣全民安全指引其實這一次的隨機攻擊已經是第三期了在之前的北捷還有台中另外這是第三期了為什麼在我們的小局書裡面都沒有提到這有關相關這種隨機攻擊的預防措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8279.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8287.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
是我想我們在下一次再更新的時候呢會把這個再把它如列進去表示說在目前這一本其實正對這個已經發生了這個這是第三次了其實是相當的嚴重的一個這樣子的一個隨機攻擊的事情其實照理說應該在全民安全執行裡面這也是相當重要的我們也謝謝委員會推廣這本小局書那我們下次我是覺得我們既然花這麼多錢來印這本小局書 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8306.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8319.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
所以他的作用他所能夠提供的訊息應該是最全面性的尤其是這是第三次這不是第一次所以在這部分我覺得我們花了這麼多錢就是希望能夠達到效果還是希望內政部能夠針對這個小局書這一次的這個印製之後他的這個各項的這個效益或是引發的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8331.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8344.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
各項的一個能夠帶來的我們這個警示還有缺乏的部分應該做一個好好的評估絕對不能浪費人民的公帑那另外呢我在這邊也要這個請教這個部長就是因為其實剛剛也都有很多委員提到就是說我們這一次因為瑜伽廠先生他的這個捨己救人所以讓我們這個因為他在這個投擲在這個張文耀被點燃汽油彈之時他是捨身去 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8360.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8376.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
去阻止他那當然他也是用生命安全來守護我們的公共安全所以說完全符合中列辭事辦法的第3條第1項第9款所稱的其他中正事及足經官事者請問部長認不認同 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8378.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8406.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
是 我剛有跟委員回顧過就是說第一個我們尊重家屬的意願之後會來全力協助是 那因為在這邊部長本席的具體的建議就是請內政部其實可以依法啟動這個認定的程序那也送請這個如果家屬同意的話就送請我們中立慈的審議的這個機制來呈現評估並就這個提出一個具體的時程跟處理方式報告委員 上次這個產值超人的案例我們會聯絡桃園市政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8408.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8420.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
那桃園市政府的話他們開始幫家屬申請的時候我們就會很快做核定或是其他的協助的部分還是一樣我們希望能夠先尊重家屬那家屬如果同意的話我們就全力來協助那是不是請部長能夠盡速的啟動我會跟桃園市政府馬上聯絡是 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8430.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8443.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
謝謝徐玉珍委員的發言在這邊跟委員會報告在牛許庭委員質詢完後我們休息5分鐘接著處理臨時提案接下來我們請徐清雲發言謝謝主席 本席有請劉部長張署長劉部長張署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8462.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8482.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
我想部長署長在公共場域發生這種暴力事件在台灣陸陸續續我們都看到所以上個禮拜五我們都很痛心所以今天本席不跟你們談政治攻防也不想聽什麼社會任性的口號 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8483.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8507.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
本席要來請教 我們對於整個的制度我們對於辨識風險 早期辨識 早期合法介入我們有沒有足夠好的制度只有安全的制度 民眾才能安全的活著否則民眾只能靠運氣所以本席首先問 現在我們在公共場域 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8509.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8514.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
有關這個暴力突發事件我們有沒有全國一致的SOP |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8516.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8538.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
現在有沒有訂定這個 全國有沒有共識我為什麼要這樣問馬上就是聖誕晚會的這種高峰期接著各縣市的跨年活動所以在這種公共場域發生這種暴力攻擊我們整個的相關單位有沒有全國一致性的SOP |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8541.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8559.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
那這個部分就是對於這個公共場域那公共場域有很多單位的一個當然包含運輸這次發生的運輸或者是其他的人多聚集的這個我們對於類似這個重大仁安是有一個演練跟SOP的所以對於 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8563.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8564.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
有全國移植的標準嗎那我請教有沒有訂定黃金抵達時間通報後幾分鐘要到誰該到 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8585.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8613.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
那這個部分就是快打的一個部隊是我們是有一些這個一個要求那比如講什麼要求啊我就問黃金抵達時間是多久可能在10分鐘以內去做抵達比如講像警力的一個一個整備比如講像類似這一種的到達的時間攜帶裝備各方面的一個狀況那未來我覺得就是說這個就是因為我們這個案子我們應該是要再去做後來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8613.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8636.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
未來的經濟那我剛才提到過的包含你剛有講10分鐘這個時間在不同的情況能不能縮短再來現場處置的SOP你從壓制到疏散到封控到醫療後送等等有沒有全國一致的標準我提一個架構就是說我剛才提的任何的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8637.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8662.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
我們第一個時間剛才提的一定是報案要快就是第一時間的訊息報案要快本來是我第二題我順便問你等到報案太慢了所以我們全國部長我們全國有沒有一件事的警報就是緊急按鈕的設置沒有我們沒有這樣剩餘警員的巡邏報案民眾第一個時間最迅速就是110 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8664.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8681.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
110的報案就是我們秦始中心就是會但是發生事情的時候如果有緊急按鈕那會更快速我們看那個影片很多人都還搞不清楚這個到底是有人在放煙火還是發生了什麼事大家觀望很久最後才發現 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8682.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8704.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
那個緊急按鈕可能也不見得是會去解決問題其實我們的這個受理的110是速度是最快的我覺得你不能說緊急按鈕在一些公共場域可以設置的當然在戶外可能很難但在公共場域這一個部分部長我覺得這個可能部長這個一定要建制 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8704.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8727.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
那個委員如果說是緊張就是可能各目的社會主管機關的一個機制那我現在提的這是全國式的就是民眾的發現第一時間就是八萬塊第二個就是剛剛委員所提的到場的速度要快再來第三個部分就是處置要快處置對所以我一直問處置的SOP你回答我一下處置的SOP全國有一致嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8728.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8746.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
有訓練過嗎這個本來就是經常在做訓練不是說沒訓練演練頻率是多少有沒有誰驗收驗收不合格又如何判定那我們就是會則有各地方縣市警察局來處理部長署長這一塊真的要加強 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8747.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8762.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
因為現在社會的變化所以我們也很這個大家都不希望看到這種事件警察的辛苦我們也知道所以我接著接著我也要詢問就是說我們這個警察因為面臨這個社會的 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8764.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8779.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
这个变异啊我们有关快打或者受这种反恐训练听起来是很棒但是我们希望不要再用基层警察的停休和加班换取一时的政治的表演所以我们也要请 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8780.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8796.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
這個署長你在會後因為我今天的時間有限我們快打部隊的人力規劃是多少缺額又是多少我們訓練的時數夠不夠演練的頻率是多少裝備更新了沒有還有預算從哪裡來所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
8799.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
8816.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
署長今天回答也許讓我們大家很滿意可是這個背後的執行面還有包含我們不能壓榨我們基層的警力我們希望這個是真的有充足的經費充足的人力署長這樣可以嗎也謝謝委員支持警察的預算跟經費謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
8818.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
8831.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
你要先回答我我剛說的你會後一定要回覆我可以嗎好那接著請兩位先回座本席接下來要問衛福部好不好衛福部的代表我看一下好次長呂次長請呂次長次長我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
8842.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
8858.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
一樣針對衛福部這邊我們不希望制度是等到自傷傷人的事件出現了發生了公權利財介入所以有關制度漏接的孤立者請問衛福部有沒有相關的機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
8859.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
8887.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
是 報告委員我想我們本次事件確實暴露了我們現在就是說有一類是屬於我們剛剛說的高度突發性 但是非典型這類它有兩個特性第一個 它就承認孤立跟失聯風險我們的制度 我們現在衛福部這裡針對有一些可能應該家人或鄰里已經察覺它不對勁在它還沒有拿刀砍人之前我們政府所能做的最早期介入 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
8888.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
8911.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
你們有沒有這樣的一個怎麼樣的方式是 幫忙委員我現在先說我們現在傳統我們現在主要大概是針對像貧窮家暴還有像要酒飲等等這一類那像剛剛委員剛剛你所說的這一類我剛剛我也在回覆另外一位委員的時候我們也說到就是說這個所謂非典型的部分我們現在目前在三個月之內 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
8913.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
8939.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
邀集相關的一些專家學者來進行相關的一個整個這個部分的一個整個對象但是我要跟委員報告我們必須要把事件背後的風險因子我們現在必須要把它先先釐清沒關係像這些細節你們該釐清的釐清但是我們希望這個也還是一樣社會一直在變化所以現在變成生理生病的人他可能不會傷人但心理生病的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
8939.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
8967.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
他可能造成很多其他人的傷亡所以這一塊是新的課題我們認同也請衛福部一定要重視可以嗎那最後我想請部長也一起來還有衛福部我們針對這個是不是有一個主責的責任鏈也就是說有關社福醫療警政各自掌握零碎的訊號我們整體的整合有沒有這種責任鏈 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
8969.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
8996.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
是 幫委員 我們其實我們社安網裡面其實事實上就是整合了五個部會誰主責 現在到底哪一個部會會主責社安網的部分是由衛福部來主責這沒錯那我跟委員報告但是現在問題就是說剛剛我們過去的一個部分傳統的典型的主要是 我再重複一次貧窮 家暴 兒虐 身心障礙藥酒飲 以及精神疾病但是現在目前我們陳副委員剛剛所說我們現在面對的可能是一個新興的 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
8998.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9002.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
高風險個案的整合機制是衛福部來主責是嗎沒有人可以回答我們現在就是到底整個行政院各部會誰來主責呢我們現在目前就是我們現在目前有一個我們的從2018年開始嘛有一個整個社安網的 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9020.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9040.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
那我們會用一個一組折多協力的一個方式對一組折那誰是一組折那我們現在目前要看那個整個不同的一個他的一個事件發生以後看是誰不是不是我們現在目前當然就是說有一些criteria我們要看那個整個主要問題看他在哪邊那我們就會有一個整個這個水平的一個整個協調機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9042.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9064.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
好那最後我佔用一點時間最後一題我想我們針對被害人的資源是不是可以一路走到終點做得到嗎包含被害人的保護他的法律輔助心理支持等等是不是能夠一路陪伴到審查終結進行包含整個的過程的關懷 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9065.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9082.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
這個部分我們政府有沒有人可以針對這些受害人我們現在目前就是有那個整個法務部那邊有一個那範保的一個機制有嗎OK我們大家一起努力好謝謝 感謝委員謝謝謝謝徐欣英委員的詢問接下來我們請牛許廷委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9099.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9102.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
謝主席 交通部有請有請交通部次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9110.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9127.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
市長 午安這個大家都很擔心因為今天稍早又收到了相關的訊息說什麼北捷又有炸彈等等這部分有掌握嗎 都有掌握好 借這個事情其實從不同的面向討論一下這個其實也是一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9129.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9157.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
倒不純然是因為這一件事情這個也是大家一直都有在討論的一件事情也就是說我們的台北車站當然山鐵共購也是全台灣最大的一個交通節點那麼動線其實是非常非常複雜那我們其實都很清楚就是說遇到這樣子隨機攻擊或者是甚至未來有可能很危險等等恐怖攻擊的一個情況如果能夠有效的來做緊急應變大概兩件事情一個叫做快速而精準的通報第二個叫做流暢 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9158.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9164.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
的疏散我想這是很重要的那當然通報的部分當然是景深系統來負責但疏散的動線我想說我們應該也花一點點時間來討論一下部長這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9168.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9195.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
台北車站跟迷宮一樣這件事情即便在這之前也有很多人有相關的抱怨也好或者是疑慮也好 擔憂也好這裡面部分不管是跟台鐵公司也好或者是跟台北市政府也好有沒有做過一些考慮過思考也就是說我們怎麼樣讓這個動線可以更清楚讓大家在裡面不要迷路然後以提升相關應變的一些效能OK 我想跟委員報告剛確實剛講因為這裡面就是有交通運輸幾乎所有的轉乘都在這裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9197.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9224.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
捷運好幾個線都在 紅線 藍線 地下街確實它真的是 還有桃姐確實它真的是變得非常非常的複雜那後面有一些一直增加進來的我想這部分我們會請台鐵公司再跟相關單位再來檢視一下這些的動線有沒有可以讓它更明顯或是更單純化我想這是我們後面我再請台鐵公司來進行優化 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9225.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9247.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
這個既然大家 因為今天很多部會都一起來報告啦我希望這個交通部也不要置身事外這部分有沒有一些比較明確的時間表還有你們現在規劃的一些方向我們現在大概明年明年我想就針對台北站的部分我們先來做一些 看怎麼樣來做一些指標系統的一個改善這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9250.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9273.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
像類似這樣子的一個方式這個當然是純粹從交通的角度比如說台鐵往哪裡走然後用設塊的方式設帶的方式來做引導這其實就一種方式或者是說現在台北車站就我的了解一樓大概都有所謂的會面點但那會面點大概其他地方就不是那麼的密集可能地下街樓層各個地方可能沒有那是不是也可以做比照來做一下設計 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9274.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9289.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
那我覺得我今天把這個照片弄出來這是純交通的動線但未來也許因應各式各樣的狀況災害也好 攻擊事件也好疏散的動線其實我覺得也可以比照這樣的方式來做處理我想這個我了解這應該是在板橋站的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9290.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9318.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
那剛剛講有相關單位包括高鐵這些我想我還是因為主要當然主體我這邊會請那個台鐵公司來進行這樣的一個優化那剛剛台鐵公司他是總經理是有跟我講他現在大概會準備找我是不是請他來可以啊 可以啊 請他說明一下都好委員好 有關於台北站的指標我們現在目前已經有委託台灣設計研究院把我們的所有的指標做一系列的綠定 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9318.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9342.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
那明年就會提出我們的指標設計研究院把它做得很漂亮本席百分之百贊成但關鍵是功能性嘛這個還是功能性還是要你們專業的人來做引導我們剛開始在做設計的時候都有邀請相關單位來從功能性的角度切入那明年我們會針對台北站還有板橋站我們把指標系統做一個整體的優化疏散動線還有更多的會面點 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9343.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9366.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
你要讓這個也不只是災害的時候用嘛你多幾個會面點對於台鐵的品質來講也是個幫助啦好不好剛剛委員提到我覺得那是一個重點剛講不是只是漂漂亮亮的功能性很重要所以未來在做的時候我們會找相關單位剛講了幾個營運單位我想都會來一把本席的一些建議拿進去明年嘛好不好相關資料要讓大家了解共同精進相關的措施好 交通部請回 警政署長有請請署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9372.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9376.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
委員長組長辛苦這個現在我們釐清這個犯案人的動機了沒 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9378.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9403.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
目前還在持續因為他人已經死了嘛所以在從各種跡象各種的查扣的這個證物以及相關的人員現在多面向要全面深入的去做了解我想要以後要更精準希望給我們一點時間這當然要給你們一點時間因為案發之後有很多不管是特殊的學者也好網路的意見啊或者是特定的媒體 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9404.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9406.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
都在大做一些有的沒的消息比如說這個兇手是陸配之子啦這個可能是內部滲透啦這個可能是第五縱隊啊這些詞都出來了那請問警方在第一時間你要核實這樣的消息嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9417.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9442.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
我們沒有 這個案件是一個重大案件所以我們這個相關的一個調查都是會在第一時間跟國人來做一個公布時間暫停一下那個現場來跟各位報告一下那個現場還在打訊很希望各位在討論的時候聲音能夠降低好謝謝主席時間可以繼續這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9444.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9457.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
我的意思是說你剛都講你要很清楚做完整的調查之後才做一次的公佈嘛對不對那中間出現很多這樣的雜訊跟干擾的時候警政署有沒有第一時間出來嚴正博士啊會 一定會第一時間會來做一個澄清比如講像類似我們從案件開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9464.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9488.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
我們發布多次的記者會或者是新聞稿都隨時會發就是讓國人了解這個罪行因為這是國人非常關注的一個重大社會事件對 重大社會事件這些相關的謠言也好 奇怪的消息對於穩定社會治安 協助辦案或者是平復社會的焦慮情緒是有幫助的嗎是有幫助曾經是有幫助曾經是有幫助 那尤其就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9494.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9501.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
預測也是對這個案件是沒有幫助的預測沒有幫助 曾經才有幫助的對不對真實的曾經才是有幫助的那你署長有沒有打算追究一下一天到晚預測的這群人的社會責任就是像網路上的這一些如果有牽涉到可能恐嚇維安的這一些恐嚇維安你要嚴辦這是大家都知道的事啊因為移送地震我們要偵辦啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9519.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9547.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
我現在講的是這些針對這樣的事情然後意圖也許是政治操作也許是造謠也許是煽動恐慌情緒的這些人我想這些應該都是不必要的啦這些都不必要嘛這我希望警方該追究的時候也要依法來做追究因為我跟署長講一個很現實的狀況也就是我剛剛問你警政署針對這件事情的時候有沒有第一時間出來做澄清說沒有這些事情按照調查程序有對不對但是署長你覺得在新聞的露出跟大家資訊的接受上大家有接受到警政署的澄清的訊息嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9548.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9558.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
那未來這個部分我們可能會再加強對媒體這樣的一個溝通跟做說明讓民眾能夠更清楚整個我們的一個正確的訊息 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9560.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9584.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
第一個你應該要加大澄清的力度讓辦案的案情的這個訊息的統一發布的主導你當然要回到警政署手上我們要尊重警察的專業也要尊重警方的辦案的節奏不要讓這些雜訊去做干擾那一個是加大相關澄清的力度第二個就是針對這些有意要造謠或者是有意要渲染的這些人你該記鐵腕手段的時候要不要記出鐵腕手段我們該依法或依法來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9585.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9601.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
這個公權力要對重大私安設計負起責任尤其也要對相關的謠言我也希望可以負起責任因為這個恐怕嚴重影響公共利益不太在我認為是不太在言論自由的保障範圍之內那這每次都有心人士在這個地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9602.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9626.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
這捕風捉影或者是意圖影射或者是試圖做政治操作我覺得這只會讓我們的社會更加混亂讓這件事情始終沒有辦法收尾也影響大家針對案情本身不管是危安疏散我們剛討論的香木窯它造成很多很多的負面影響雖然這起事件的兇手已經死亡但造成社會治安法治的信心民眾心理的持續的破壞的這些造謠的人都還逍遙法外 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9627.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
9653.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
我擔心行政權的選擇性沉默或拒絕積極作為會讓公共安全難以復原所以務必請警政署這邊第一強化警政署才是辦案的主導者相關的訊息你要強烈的而且更大的聲音來做澄清第二你當然要針對這些造謠捕風捉影什麼第五縱隊什麼陸配之子這些東西該究責你也要究責這樣才能最快讓社會穩定下來可以嗎可以我們依法處理好謝謝署長辛苦了 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
9656.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
9664.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
好謝謝劉徐庭委員的發言那接下來我們先來處理臨時提案那臨時提案共有兩案請宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
9671.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
9700.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
依據我國包養條例規定堂冒險犯難中真不拔撞獵成人者得依法包養並得入肆國民革命國民革命中獵詞或地方中獵詞是以內政部據該條例包養因救助花蓮馬太安西堰澀湖災情不幸病故之林洪森先生並入肆桃園中獵詞而12月19日晚鑑於台北車站發生重大計劃性殺人事件瑜伽廠先生捨命敵遇歹徒大幅降低可能的傷亡 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
9701.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
9721.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
挽救眾多民眾生命安全為瑜伽廠先生不幸因傷重不治身亡為感念瑜伽廠先生一行原提案要求內政部依相關法令包養並將瑜伽廠先生入室中列詞以致表彰其堅毅勇為的精神提案人為黃建斌等五人 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
9730.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
9742.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
那個修正已經卸掉修正鍋的那個待會那個修正完的時候再重新兩個案子都有修正部分現在那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
9754.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
9774.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
案由鑑於民國114年12月19日發生於台北捷運及南西商圈之重大無差別公共場域攻擊事件顯示我國現行社會治安公共運輸安全社會安全網及跨部會情報聯防機制仍存在事前預警不足及時阻斷失靈及制度分工斷裂等重大結構性問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
9776.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
9789.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
原提案請內政部衛生福利部交通部法務部及國家安全局針對本案所揭露之制度缺口於一個月內提出具體檢討與改善方案並送立法院提案人委員徐欣盈等四人 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
9828.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
9853.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
臨時提案的說明是因為涉及到本局其中瓜胡市我們是不是可以建立修正調整文字為暴力攻擊情報聯防機制精進方案說明如何將重大疫情情資通報警政署強化勤務部署並兼顧反依據與人民權利保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
9859.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
9867.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
有修正部分的部分有修正部分的部分有修正部分的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
9901.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
9903.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
來那個我們先休息五分鐘先討論一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10345.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10366.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
那個再請他們修正上面再報告一次就不會 是不是這樣 都是這樣還是要控告我那個 國安局這個您剛剛有唸了這個那他現在把惠同那支布景再畫掉 OK 齁沒有沒有 就是那支布景再修他說畫掉了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10371.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10373.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
國安警報 國安警報 國安警報 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10470.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10476.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
好那個剛經過的協商之後那個介紹我們請衛福部就修正部分來說明一下好不好衛福部 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10485.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10494.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
OK 主席以及各部會同仁衛福部我們的部分是就強化社會安全網2.0計畫於三個月內提出專案檢討報告針對非精神劣管 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10500.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10518.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
非貧困長期社會孤立之高風險族群說明現行制度之限制並研議規劃風險評估機制將高風險孤立者評估及介入方式納入服務以上 謝謝接下來還有法務部的部分是不是 法務部 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10527.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10555.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
跟主席各位報告法務部在第五的部分建議修正如下請法務部於一個月內提出專案報告說明各地檢署防範恐怖攻擊應變小組之具體作為第二行以下在未達強制就醫標準之前刪除並接並就具高度公共安全風險個案制度補強方向提出說明以上補充謝謝那接下來還有 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10557.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10561.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
還有內政部第二案修正部分也說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10567.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10593.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
報告召委臨時提案第二案的部分呢我想前面就不再贅述在倒數第二行的部分為了感念余家廠先生異形因為我在答詢的時候特別提到那個家屬的意願也是非常重要所以我們建議改成就是說為感念余家廠先生異形後面原來提案文就先不要把它改成說在尊重家屬意願下予以協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10593.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10597.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
依包洋條例程序由原籍地方政府提報辦理謝謝部長的說明謝謝那我們臨時提案的一二案就照修訂後修訂後通過好接下來我們繼續質詢我們請鄭天才委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10628.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10654.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
主席 各位委員 有請警政署署長還有法務部法務部次長我們今天這個非常重要的議題從內政部的報告裡面特別提到這個嫌犯 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10656.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10681.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
他本來是軍人後來酒駕被剔除後來被軍人教育召集未到所以由桃園地方檢察署發布通緝整個過程今天也都說明了很多委員也都諮詢了現在怎麼樣去做防範未來的防範 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10685.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10715.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
這裡面比較沒有談到的部分比較沒有談到今天所有報告裡面沒有談到的部分就是通緝犯這個通緝犯怎麼去去防範造成這樣的一個重大的傷害當然他這個整個過程這個都有做了說明然後他整個他自己居住的 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10717.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10745.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
然後犯案的路線也不是很大的範圍而且他就住在這個區塊裡面這是我從媒體所看到的也是你們所報告出來的所以他這個因為沒有簽戶籍所以然後就是交易召集 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10745.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10753.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
沒有去然後就通緝請問一下這個我先從法務部好了法務部這個通緝犯你們怎麼通報給誰發布你們只是發布 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10761.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10787.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
還是通報給哪些根據訴訟法規定我們通緝犯我們通知通報所有轄機的全國各司法警察單位甚至移民機關都會通報另外我們也會在我們的相關的這個單一的這個通報系統窗口裡面會鑒入他是一個通緝犯的身份讓全國民眾或是相關治安機關可以協助來起步所以你們通報的就是第一個就是警察機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10789.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10819.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
移民署警察機關移民署還有呢就是這樣然後就是公告我們在一個系統裡面會有公告所以按照現在有可以去精進的地方嗎這個是法例明定了嗎還是說可以增加通報的單位這個通報通報是訴訟法明定的通報是司法假決訴訟法明定的 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10819.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10844.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
在法例以外可以主動增加通報的機構嗎跟委員報告我們那個通緝辦的查詢系統就是法律沒有規定我們自己在行政指導上面專家做的可以增加嗎對 那麼一些現行做法這樣已經有了好那個警政署署長所以看起來就是主要是你們嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10846.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10872.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
差不多也是我們警察任務之一所以在這樣一個情形之下警察很忙真的很忙他也很難他除非說碰到這個人了之後然後他去查他是不是通緝犯基本上是這樣對不對碰到那個人 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10873.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10896.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
譬如說他違規怎麼樣然後拿了他的身份證資料然後你們警察就去查他是不是通緝犯大概基本上是這樣所以我認為要加兩個機關要協調怎麼樣去精進最起碼人都要生活嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10898.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10926.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
對不對人都要生活嘛最起碼這個金流對不對他要生活他要工作他最起碼是生活生活一定要錢嘛對不對所以這樣的一個情形之下要不要通報金融機構他要提款啊對不對那個法務部次長可以增加這個嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10928.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10945.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
你不能全部讓警察去跟委員報告事實上我剛跟委員報告我們現在公開的查詢系統其實任何人他是公開的系統任何人他都可以去查詢那個金融機構的人不會主動不會主動去看嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10946.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10973.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
是這樣 所以這個部分是一個是要去檢討精進的是 那這部分如果要包括旅館 民宿業之類的那可能要刑訴送法要做一個特別的規範所以這個部分你們去檢討加強了好 那個次長請回座警察同仁真的非常辛苦這個內政部 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10975.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
11000.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
這個署長你要去欠你要去拜託部長去拜託請部長拜託左院長這個警察人員相關的預算要編列剛才你也提到要支持預算警察的預算就是要編列 現在就沒有編了造成這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
11002.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
11030.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
事實上我談了很久了警察人員人事條例有關退休輔系放在公務人員就不對嘛所以我以前質詢前系部部長現在的考試院院長他都支持支持把退休警察人員退休輔系放在警察人員人事條例所以好不容易終於把它移到警察人員人事條例結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
11032.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
11054.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
經過復議之後 然後表決完成按照法律 憲法的規定 復議要通過行政院長應急接受該決議接受啊 接受就要執行 何況已經接受了 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
11056.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
11084.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
公布了總統也公布施行了接受了也附屬了連部長都附屬了上次我也質詢過所以這個部分要拜託這個部長請部長拜託卓院長趕快編列預算加油好謝謝委員好謝謝謝謝鄭天才委員的質詢接下來我們請賴思寶委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
11091.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
11119.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
謝謝主席以及各位先進有請內政部的劉部長還有警政署長還有國安局的陳副局長請劉部長張署長還有陳副部長來幾位長官好這件張文的隨機殺人事件幾乎是正結十幾年前的事件的翻版那 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
11121.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
11148.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
這個事件請問他到底是治安還是國安要不要部長先跟我們講一下他治安還是國安還是兩個都有目前依內政部跟各地方的警政系統看起來他是一個隨機殺人是無差別那我們認為到目前為止是一個重大的暴力襲擊案件所以比較傾向是讓社會不安的一個治安問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
11149.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
11172.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
他不是國安問題我想網路上有很多謠言我也趁著委員在這邊跟大家報告一下其實他跟中配沒有關係我覺得這種網路的謠言應該適可而止跟中配沒有關係跟國安局副局長不要講一下他跟這個有教授提到什麼第五縱隊有第五縱隊嗎 請問要不要回應一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
11179.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
11192.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
本案是不是涉及第五縱隊 有沒有原則上他們還在調查目前剛剛從報紙得知部長跟署長講是沒有原則上都是來自境外的信息 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
11193.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
11215.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
所以很清楚的看得到嘛這是一個重大的暴力事件隨機殺人隨機殺人的意思說他要殺的對象是社會台灣社會任何人他都可以殺所以這個整個心態是這樣的一個心態那他這個來看的話請問他是不是主有沒有背後有沒有有人下指導棋的有沒有國安局掌握到裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
11217.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
11238.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
目前個案還在偵查當中都沒有到目前為止沒有看到這個嗎沒有署長要不要解釋一下就目前有沒有看到他是個主持犯罪有人指導有人指使以目前現在偵查到目前的進入是還沒有發現到這樣的一個狀況所以對於這個因為他死了嘛所以對於他犯案的 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
11239.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11257.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
有沒有逛販跟動機還在全面深深的偵查那不過我們現在初步可以看得到掌握的物證其實我們要看要看物證嘛它是一個模仿的一個行為而且是一個模仿證據對這樣的一個跡象而且它是一個類似這些的一個地點 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11258.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11278.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
是一個計劃性的行為是一個隨機但是這一點都在他的計劃的一個行為在這種情況之下這個你可以看到這個剛才又有人又有冒出來說昨天又有人講今天下午一點半要在北捷放炸彈 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11279.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11300.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
這個模仿的部分我們都第一時間會去做查處而且去做偵查而且速度會很快我也利用很多的場合像從開始的案件到目前為止我們現在有發現22件那以前有查核事情都依法來一送正辦我們一定要讓民眾的心安二指這樣的一個模仿的一個行為 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11301.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11317.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
其實在台灣我們的治安在全世界是一等於一的治安是非常好的啦所以老百姓來講習慣了你知道治安非常好所以大家也不會有那種警覺性拍到這個事情老實講一般的普遍老百姓不知道如何因應不太會 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11318.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11344.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
所以你覺得要不要或者是部長跟我們解釋一下你的消局書裡面要不要特別加強一下我們碰到這樣的事情隨機殺人老百姓怎麼做或者我們要不要演練要不要演習我們下次會把委員的意見加進去不管是我們城鎮任性演習或是精華演習就是在大量群眾的疏散撤離這一塊通常都是用桌上兵推來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11345.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11372.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
那下一次我們在演習的時候會把這種無腳本式的已經是牽涉到事實的案件把它加進裡面還有小局書的部分其實我們在114年的7月我們的警政署有發布這種類似暴力啦或者是搶劫等等這些但是這是小局書認為因為機率不高沒有列進去下次我們會把它列進去裡面有些內容人家有些醫生打槍你說你們CPI不見得寫得那麼的精準不過這不是我要問的來 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11375.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11401.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
這個請教署長我們要不要把煙霧霧彈跟信號彈要不要管制這個目前的煙霧彈跟信號彈是這個煙霧彈是不是管制藥品沒有管制啊信號彈也沒有管制啊那我覺得這個要嚴厲啦其實從源頭來做一個處理嚴厲看看是不是是不是讓他實名制我覺得就最少實名制的可以嗎什麼時候可以試試 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11402.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11428.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
我們來嚴厲啦 就是委員這個我看我們是不是用一個月的時間來因為這個可能牽涉到有一些相關的可能有一些是厭惡但是要去做求救的什麼這一類的一個狀況所以還有一些可能像生存遊戲的這一些的一個相關的這個狀況我們是不是就是說像這些不能來用犯罪的一個狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11429.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11441.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
那我們是不是怎麼來做一個管制至少實名制啦實名制就沒有問題啦我們這部分來嚴厲好不好最後一位 你們請回我請一下那個衛福部的次長好不好請 請 請 請 請理事長 理事長我就問你一個很簡單的問題他這個張行 張文他算不算社會的邊緣人 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11460.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11481.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
包委我們現在我們社安網的服務對象主要大概是在貧窮家暴 惡虐 要求癮 精神疾病他都不是啊 還有藥毒防疫他都不是啊包委那因為在所謂的邊緣人我想這個需要嚴格定義啦我們現在目前政府做事我們現在目前基本上還是要有一定的一個整個判斷的標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11482.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11505.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
那成儒剛剛跟委員也在大院裡面有報告我們社安網裡面主要是針對有家暴、兒虐、身心障礙、藥酒飲以及精神疾病加一個進來 就是說對於這樣子的一個無差別攻擊或者是在公共場合大規模的隨機殺人 要不要放進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11505.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11514.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
包委我們現在就是這個案例我想他凸顯了兩個問題就是說有一種游泳人他屬於所謂成人孤立另外第二個他是失聯的風險群 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11516.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11538.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
那這個我想是新興的張文都是啊你這兩個張文都是啊所以我們也我們現在目前也在會在會來我也在承諾在三個月之內我們趕快我會來針對這一類新興的就這個部分邀集專家好來做你再把他叫進來吧是是是我們來沒有這一類群的啦沒錯好好好謝謝好感謝委員謝謝好謝謝賴世寶委員的發言接下來我們請吳祁銘委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11551.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11556.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
好 主席 議會同仁請我們部長跟警政署署長請劉部長 張署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11561.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11590.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
委員好 部長好 署長好上個禮拜五台北車站就是北捷重大的隨機襲擊事件造成了無辜的3名的民眾不幸的傷亡我們是針對說你北捷還有過去的那個江祖翠的政捷的事件還有台中的事件那你捷運這是非常多的出入所以本市這邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11591.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11603.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
就是一個比較不能理解的因為這個張顯的通緝犯他從下午開始就有縱火事件還有在捷運站丟棄的煙霧彈再來 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11609.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11633.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
還有再回去租屋處還可以變裝這個持刀殺人這個事件真的是我們警察單位一定要去加強尤其我本席有一個建議我們事情發生了我們後面要怎麼來防治後面不要再有這種悲劇在重演因為你說每個車站你治安一定要列入重重自重再來 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11634.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11660.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
你整個監視系統我們的監控中心一定要監控中心第一時間發現到有任何異狀你監控中心那一邊就要立即要求多久的時間要到達現場這樣才不會造成民族恐慌再來一點就是平常我們地震都會手機都會顯示出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11662.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11675.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
地震但是你說 進車站我們不造成恐慌 你進車站 歡迎到了某某車站然後你再有緊急事況的我們可以發布喔手機來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11682.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11700.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
要怎樣來做警戒 怎樣來做逃生這是我們未來要去做的我認為這樣 不然你做捷運 大家都在看手機啊所以不曉得發生什麼事啊但是你如果透過這個系統我認為這可以去耗資 減少未來這個產績是不是署長 請你回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11705.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11733.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
好 謝謝委員的這個建議我想就是任何事件的一個發生還是要達到民眾的報案要快我們到場要快 處置要快至於這個各相關單位的一個相關的建制比如講像北哲的監控中心的指揮體系包括警報廣播或者是我們警察遇到這些遇到歹徒逃逸的一個相關單位橫向的攔截圍捕 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11734.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11759.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
這個部分我們未來都會再去做精進我們是針對車站因為車站出入人口太多尤其都是一些年輕的上班族的還有一些學生但是你要怎麼讓他們不要再看了手機但是大家都在網路看手機你根本沒有去注意周邊發生什麼事是不是透過這個系統來告知 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11763.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11784.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
這樣可以減輕另外一方面的消耗大眾的系統比如像北捷那個廣播系統是可以全面都可以聽得到的廣播啦 第一時間最快你如果用什麼簡訊它搞不好也不至於聽就第一時間的廣播警報的系統那這個當然是在這個目的世衛主宰機關的部分這個未來對這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11787.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11791.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
這個公衛署的這個系統未來我們可能會加強聯繫這方面的一個演練 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11793.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11817.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
對 現在我跟你們說 我們的警察都是非常辛苦甚至編制上 在車站的編制是我們捷運的我們警察隊的編制 是不是不過在這個部分 我希望本市要提出檢討總是事情發生 總是要解決事情要看一套檢討的辦法如果人員不足 我們都 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11818.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11836.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
在增加人員 我相信在立法院所有的董事長都前期是警察所以警察也最辛苦的所以在這個部分 我也拜託署長跟部長在這個部分 不管是經費還是人力的部分我們一定要去加強 將未來發生的議法可以去檢慶 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11841.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11855.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
但是我現在又看到網路上 還有人在做模仿未來不再一直延續下去 我們要怎樣去好處 怎樣去斷尾不要再發生這種悲劇了 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11857.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11879.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
這個案件發生之後我們就是有發現到這一些模仿的狀況所以到目前為止我們有發現22件已經查獲事件一受偵辦那我們也第一時間會把這一些的這個網路的模仿狀況等於下架然後再做追查我們也呼籲國人就是不要這個以深思法或者是用嬉戲的態度去看待這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11879.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11892.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
那我們一定會在這個第一時間會嚴正的去做一個執法讓像國人做手錨不要去觸犯這個模仿的這個狀況好 謝謝但是我也請保重來 請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11895.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11920.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
部長 未來我們一間仙島片是不是跟民眾怎麼來自救怎麼來防範民眾因為很多不知道要怎麼保護自己是不是在這個部分可以做個宣傳我們可能要全民來加強宣傳這個危機意識讓他知道說在我們的日常生活當中無論怎麼樣都是會碰到這個情形所以我們會來加強 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11923.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11948.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
因為我們台灣的治安是世界大家都是非常謙敬不要說因為一個事件造成我們台灣在國際的影響我們國人本身也是一定要說保護心保護改機所以說我們要怎麼來做選擇這是未來我們要去推動要去做我們是說從未來的發生可以不要再去看到這是我們大家共同的願望感謝委員好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11956.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11980.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
謝謝吳啓明委員發言 接下來請謝榮介委員發言主席我請署長有請張署長委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11985.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11988.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
補充 你們聽一下 這是你的藥物蘇丁 我前幾天在台南辦活動 聖誕節的活動我看到很多東林藥 東青 戒備就是為了這個事件是你有通靈鑽國 國管制還是台南 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
12011.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
12024.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
我統領全國 全國嘛 全國 不是說今天一個台北市而已全國 你是我統領的這就是一個米霧中苗啦 是好聽的一些福來牛當然也會造成全台灣 大家都很緊張嘛我們的提案過去 合成在世界裡面算提案很好的 我們的國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
12041.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
12049.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
我看你今天報告跟說明不斷提起這是模仿的作案模仿的作案大概就是模仿政界你判斷他最後跳樓是要得罪是要主宰 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
12070.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
12088.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
這個部門應該還要調查啦 因為他當年辦案的經驗我看他如果要去定樓 要去定樓的狀況 他就是條例就是要可能就是要結束他的生命我看應該的條例其實比較大 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
12095.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
12105.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
如果這樣過去說這個地方掉下來這個地方都是災害在那裡是不是有屬性 你說的它有價位 還有有沒有 又怕沒方那麼如果是 那間公司說的那個地方都是災害災害這就是一個翻窗喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
12120.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
12140.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
你不可以白讀喔委員這我都會去做調查啦就是說有一些都是都是這一套我覺得很多東西就是要靠前期啦所以這我都會去做了解因為我們今天要了解這個人去的竅期啊我們就要要了解他是什麼童期啦因為他所謂模仿都是模仿這個政界政界是破死刑啊那既然破死刑他何必跳牢呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
12150.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
12176.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
所以你說他跳牢就是準備要主宰有比較矛盾我個人的感覺就是說因為我們現在大法官釋憲之後就已經是實質的匯讀施行台灣做生意實質的匯讀施行讓這個台獨呢他在作案的時候他感覺說他現在不會判施行所以我用了政節作案的方法 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
12178.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
12186.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
甚至殺傷幾個人 造成幾個人失望 永遠不會發生事情是不是因為這樣 這地方你有考慮了嗎委員 我們各種可能性我都會納入來做偵查的方向這樣在這個社會 你覺得說修分的言論 不斷藉著修分跟對立 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
12208.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
12212.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
累輸的案件我個人感覺會越來越多非常不同的尤其台北省的政體領域有的比較不積極的 少數部分不小的政體領域還在挑法什麼北部是什麼人 可能是怎麼做這種事情我們沒有辦法做不及承諾 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
12238.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
12239.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
要輪椅的伯母 像她在說的腰底清醒 曲身不小之離 高射水彎 歡聲待好之助不用這樣在製造社會生活那麼對著這件案件 本縣領委說 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
12262.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
12282.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
在全國 你也要通靈說 全國 當地 留下的所在 集會 認定這個所在 要來加強改變請委員 我們第三次經歷不足 你知道嗎對 好 來在不足的情形下 譬如說 國管局有經歷不足的情形下那這樣在國管局的 譬如說 國體站 會議站 專運站 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
12290.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
12297.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
這裡是臨調很多觀光站的那個所在區的分局可以針對這裡列區的分局列點到列區的分局的經歷 尊重和充足變好教育 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
12309.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
12314.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
這我會來做檢討 所以我們這兩天 拜六禮拜有幾乎十六個 二十二個 官司局長就在研討說這方面的處理 也來議論議題啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
12324.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
12332.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
保證在經歷不足的基層狀況下因為要叫你一時補足也不可能嘛 如果這樣在調配在國管制裡面的國分局的經歷調配是不是可以優先給這些裂口裂店 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
12344.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
12368.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
會分局 跨界不要嚇人家啦 變成跨界的中間他如果欠10% 他這邊可以欠5%這樣呢 伊比不惜其輸啦 你認為如何這委員會的這個說法我支持 就是第一層直接要去處理這個緊急事件民眾的報案這第一層的經歷要有做啦 我同意啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12372.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12385.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
京豐很辛苦啦 但是這個辦案的過程也不會對你得受苛責啦 不管在事件發生之後 所有的課室列為會處的檢討啦那麼隨時有可能會總統這種的發生 希望不要有一次啦那是有的有的 我相信在一般的事件 應該你們可以得到很多的受苦跟經驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12401.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12406.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
一比一來 做衝判的檢討這樣好不好好 謝謝委員謝謝謝龍介委員的質詢現在我們請聽學中委員發言謝謝召委我請劉副長跟張署長我請劉副長跟張署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12429.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12435.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
發生這個遺憾的這個嚴重的事件在這裡要簽署我們保證我們將對國內放棄這種類似恐攻的反應機制我們將有這種回饋 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12448.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12450.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
我們是有這個機制在做編組 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12467.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12471.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
專備訓練我們有這個技術在做尤其是在我們的維安特勤隊對於恐攻的這個狀況是有做這樣的編組跟訓練而且目前都正在實施在做訓練當中我們看到這個感覺起來是一定是有一個結尾聲 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12489.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12501.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
這個人看起來是戒衛生的?對,有戒衛生的這個人是戒衛生的?對,有戒衛生的?對,有戒衛生的?對,有戒衛生的?對,有戒衛生的?對,有戒衛生的?對,有戒衛生的?對,有戒衛生的?對,有戒衛生的?對,有戒衛生的?對,有戒衛生的?對,有戒衛生的?對,有戒衛生的?對,有戒衛生的?對,有戒衛生的?對,有戒衛生的?對,有戒衛生的?對,有戒衛生的?對,有戒衛生的?對,有戒衛生的?對,有 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12517.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12525.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
這個案件 當我們未來 未來我們這個演習我們競爭單位演習當中 未來想要配合到我們這個車場捷運跟這個人口密集度的這些範圍內來進行這個演習我們醫療會來做這方面的這個演練叫那個訓練這是一個重大仁安的事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12545.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12567.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
這樣的話 我們是要替我們警察銀行來講話我們才看到我們的署長逃過很多次來跟他們指責指責說他們執勤到位 逮捕嫌犯的速度最慢其實我們都會了解 我們警察受到通告 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12568.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12576.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
他們有時在外面睡覺過他們在外面要睡覺快點去捏鬆筋捏鬆筋捏會過這有可能在這時候時間延誤到會去傷到很多人我們警察要明心切第一時間趕快去現場 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12586.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12607.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
已經把刑犯被迫到一個陰暗處我們叫警察說從這個陰暗處去逮捕那個刑犯我們跟郭靖這個警察比例有辦法安全出來當然是要等 要等到說我們的支援部隊夠我們才可以去逮捕嘛 像這樣所以說 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12611.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12619.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
我們有時候發生社會事件不是我們要的發生社會事件也不可以將所有這個體涉給我們的警察的動力我們貴姓 大家因應措施這個國分可能要請我們補充我們要來研議研議一套 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12634.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12643.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
研議一套的未來將對這個隨機殺人的這個應應百姓的應應措施如何釋放剛才我們就覺得比較可笑的一個一個勇敢的個性去做事結果也是第一個去向這個平凡態勢的這個我們覺得比較安心他們如果說再讓自己 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12661.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12672.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
因為比較好的狀況 還讓自己先離開離開現場 換有人受傷但這塊陰魂來 來抵抗這個症狀現場沒有人去受傷所以我們如果有跟他說你今天你有去練清涼你有練優德 你有練抵抗你有一身的智慧的能力也不一定有辦法去抓受害傷者的症狀的那個靈力 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12690.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12707.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
因為他走到城市那是健身狂狂四圍亂砍我們練習我們師弟母知道你看我演過舞蹈你看我看過大軍我們就是都有正式的一套練習的方式在訓練無情的訓先放這樣走到台灣走到歐國來歐國台所以我要建議一項我們現在全國的經歷想要都謙虛 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12719.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12728.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
警力是有欠缺警力是目前有些是欠缺的欠缺我們都已經知道了但是警力警察還是要休息我們如果有一千個警察有可能當這個時間是更多的休息我們警力欠缺的情況下我們還有一個第二組織 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12740.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12750.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
第二組織的會鄉民 我們衛生公司譬如我們捷運站 我們國體公司我們鐵路公司 他們都有請一個給我們保護住的 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12752.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12770.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
保全,我們要看如何把這個高傳的零元,跟訓練,跟他們訓練,可以做專業的防範犯罪,或是核實犯罪的零元,定義做我們警察的地理固定。 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12770.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12774.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
我們可以讓他們開機 他們現在開機是什麼?一支警棍 應該是一支警棍而已 他們的護船我們可以感恩他們 因為我們使用電磁槍 使用電磁棍用這個比較加強性的防護製的武器來讓他們隨身攜帶他們可以來代替警察來做第一層的風敵的這個工作 這個過分性 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12800.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12815.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
把我們輸掉跟補掉 給你們分用一下 給你們建議一下這個國運 您想可以考慮一下 委員你這個建議很好 我前跟前天我跟補掉就是給 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12817.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12820.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
22縣市的警察局長對警力有一些部署都是要用民力來一起參與所以這次未來就是這些營業事業機關對於這個保全的這一些的人力的增加跟裝備的這個充實 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12834.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12859.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
我覺得這是一個很好的方式因為每年的訓練可能更加退休可能有一些不足能夠協計能夠加入這些的民力進來對未來的社會的安全的保障是更加一層的保護可能要麻煩我們輸掉我們補掉我請你先休息一下我請我們的衛福部次長衛福部次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12866.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12893.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
市長 我們這次的隨機殺人事件顯示醫院已經有實驗失人行為偏差的徵兆當這次的事件對著今晚的社政跟心理衛生的體系建立高風險個案的機制有什麼可以改善的方法 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12895.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12900.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
非常感謝委員對我們這個問題的關心就像剛才委員所說的我簡單來講我們過去的社會安全網最主要所針對的風險我叫做救風險這個救風險最主要的就是 委員你剛才所說的可能有接觸的 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12914.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12923.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
吃藥 精神疾病 兒女的身心 又吃飽等等但是這 我老實說 這有一點比較屬於我們傳統其實我們這裡 其實我們要來綁這個 也已經很努力但是現在這次所表現的就是說 有一種新興的風險我們分析起來有兩個重點 第一就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12937.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12952.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
他就是我們說叫成人孤立他已經大人大賤但是問題是他內心他可能受到外面的一些挫折自己也不怎麼說 我如果委員報告其實我們在調查的時候過去兩年他完全沒領好這個就醫的紀錄也沒有來做這個精神疾病所以像這種他就是說第二的要件就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12962.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12982.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
他失禮嘛 跟社會完全都隔離但是他常常可能會做一些少年害理的事情所以我們現在就是說 我剛才也有跟委員報告說我們三國外以來我們就是跟我們一些 請教一些專家尤其我們警察大學 我有很多公共安全的部份有很多專家 我們要請教 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12984.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12990.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
這個新興的風險 我想必須我們來面對我們這次 我也有在委員報告 我們是很危險但是我們一家政府就是有義務我們有責任 要來處理這個問題三個月以來 我來提出這個報告來用委員報告感謝市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
13004.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
13019.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
當我們分明後衛黨電視上就有發生一個例子就是暗示軍心 他的心理狀況有問題但是這個這段時間可能有用言語去恐嚇就出名介表但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
13020.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
13034.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
因為警察來 他是一個有心理的疾病的一個人警察人如果讓他居留還是怎樣結果他回來之後發生了遺憾的事情就是怎樣就是他要趕時間 趕到鹿洋莊沙山走到處理台人 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
13041.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
13049.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
所以來針對心理輔導的高風險群組的輔導機制希望政府要再強化一下我簡單說一下我們現在也已經社會安全網裡面有一個我們現在第二期要來升職社區的心理衛生中心目前為止我們是幾位要轉國一百控一處跟每年我們議制 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
13067.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
13069.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
謝謝丁薛忠委員的發言接下來我們請王鴻薇委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
13093.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
13099.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
好 謝謝主席我請內政部部長以及警政署署長請劉部長 張署長委員好好 部長和署長我首先要感謝我們今天的司法法制委員會我們做成的提案就是對於這個余家廠先生他在第一時間他可以說捨命抵禦歹徒那怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
13122.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
13126.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
內政委員會 對不起對 內政委員 我講錯了是不是不好意思 趕快更正對 內政委員會做成提案讓這個瑜伽廠先生可以入寺終列祠我覺得這是今天我們非常好的一個提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
13138.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
13161.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
那我有注意到部長在面對媒體的時候也有肯定那所以非常感謝這個內政部那我想今天我們內政委員會變更議程針對這個社會重大事件一起國內外的矚目的事件做這個專題報告大家可以看到就是我們各位委員其實關心的層面非常非常廣 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
13162.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
13173.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
包含剛才的地學中委員也關心到我們社會層面的心理還有社區的關懷所以它絕對不是一個今天是為了政治性或者是為了護航蔣萬安市長而辦的專題報告我想這個是非常非常清楚的 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
13179.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
13194.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
那我也希望在這個社會承受一個這麼重大的創傷之後尤其政治人物真的應該要有所節制真的應該要有所節制不要動不動就用政治去解讀好我們先看放一張影片 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
13210.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
13213.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
也有時間的關係我們就看圖片我想這個事件發生之後昨天我們也看到我們中山分局的所長耿業的就是在講到其實我們的員警已經盡力也看到我們很多我們在轄區內的員警其實他們是在休假當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
13235.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
13254.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
那麼他接到這個通知之後立刻就機車就停下來就立刻去執勤那當然大家看到這個攻堅的畫面也就是當張文提逃到頂樓之後那麼我們七個警察衝到第一線的時候那很多人就看到說 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
13255.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
13260.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
面對這樣的一個凶殘而且有這種致命性的這個他的凶器的這個凶嫌在逮捕的時候沒有配槍沒有配槍那如果你相對最近不是也發生在AIT有一個可疑的題材那個是防暴小組出動可以看到這樣的裝備他是一個防暴小組的出動 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
13281.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
13298.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
所以我想請問一下署長因為你們把這整個時間序也把它交代得非常清楚我看那報告那麼警政署是什麼時候知道在捷運站裡面有這個重大的攻擊事件請問一下署長警政署什麼時候知道的 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
13300.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
13307.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
我們案件發生之後就馬上就知道了大概什麼時間大概就是大概6點鐘左右就知道6點鐘左右所以我要請教的是因為當天現場我想包含這個轄區內的警 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
13315.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
13321.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
就是派出所一定在調配他的人力所以剛才發生就是員警在休假中趕快接到通知立刻他連去領配備都來不及所以這個會出現說沒有配槍然後好像裝備都不足只是拿了警棍而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
13336.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
13341.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
我想請問一下如果警政署得到這個訊息因為當天他是有丟煙幕彈而且在台北火車站的時候已經有攻擊事件那個瑜伽場就已經攻擊他他最後是死亡嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
13354.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
13381.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
所以當天現場有沒有派防暴小組出動這個部分不是屬於類似這一種爆裂物它是煙霧所以跟這個AIT的狀況是不同的所以這個是消防的給我們的訊息所以這個兩件事應該不同的類型也就是資訊要正確今天如果是一個爆裂物我們當然會出動這個防暴小組來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
13383.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
13390.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
這個AIT處理用防暴小組來處理因為當時沒有人認領的一個是一個提袋裡面是眼鏡但是當時擔心它是爆裂物可是當天現場其實已經有煙霧彈但是後來事實上它還有汽油彈它只是當天沒有拿住汽油彈所以我在這邊特別要講的就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
13408.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
13424.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
像這個攻擊事件他從下午開始縱火一直到大概在下午在5點多鐘的時候已經在台北車站已經出現丟煙霧彈而且有攻擊他那個已經有人受傷死亡 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
13425.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
13427.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
我認為對我們警察的時候警察他的配備還有你們的所有的通報調度我還是會認為讓警察會暴露在第一線如果當時他是跳樓他跳樓當時凶嫌跳樓死亡 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
13441.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
13461.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
如果因為當天天色已晚那這幾位警察他沒有 他也沒有配槍然後你知道其中有一個死亡的就是他這一個就是他這個道移動下去就立刻封喉欸就是死亡者有個立刻封喉的真的是非常非常倒霉真的是悲劇所以我的意思 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
13462.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
13469.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
警察在第一線我們幸好這一次在警察沒有發生憾事可是如果我們看到這個第一線的畫面我會為警察捏一把冷汗所以就是說當時我們接獲通報然後他們接獲這個指示但是他們事實上當時身上的配備是不足的所以我必須講其實很多事情不管中央也好地方也好 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
13490.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
13494.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
我們應該感謝的我們感謝我們應該包養的要包養但是該檢討的也要檢討我更認為是說真的我們要防止下一個悲劇給我一點點時間因為我們今年全國有44場的跨年活動你們有算包含廟會包含很多的這個耶誕活動 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
13514.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
13528.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
今年有137場以台北市 昨天的台北馬它的出動的遠景超過原來部署的一倍對 就是原來的兩倍增加一倍之多 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
13529.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13540.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
所以我想請問一下台北市宣布說在跨年活動時候要有保安警力要派駐霹靂小組要有防暴車要有偵報犬要設置車主而且這次要有細胞簡訊這個是在台北市礦打派議員他們的建議之下蔣文安市長他同意未來要發細胞簡訊同樣的事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13558.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13577.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
發生在北車也有可能發生在桃園也可能發生在新北也可能發生在高雄所以我想請問署長或者部長可以回答像這些在馬上面臨的全國這麼多的跨年活動或者耶誕活動都是人潮聚集 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13578.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
13582.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
那這幾個我剛才講的台北市說他們要做那請問一下全國是不是也會同樣的規格我們從禮拜六禮拜天就集合22個縣市的局長由部長跟我對於未來到不管是到跨年或是耶誕或是過年盤點總共137場的重大活動那我們都會依照活動的這個性質做最高規格的維安的部署 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13608.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13628.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
包括裡面不管是怎樣的一個措施我們都會做這樣的一個這些措施都會 都會做吧都會把它納入這樣的考慮就是除了這個警力之外我們還有加入這些民力因為有些警力是不足的我知道 這些民力包括一警力加民防或者是保全或者是地方不足的中央 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13628.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13652.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
也會去做支援我看到你們報告你們是準備動用一萬七千多人嘛包含名利啦所以其實原警會非常辛苦尤其在這個整個的未來跨年活動甚至一直要延長到春節那另外我請教一下或者部長來回答我一下就這一次呢其實非常確定的是台北市未來要用細胞簡訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13653.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13682.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
也就是比如說你在北車其實我們有去旅遊韓國旅遊也是一樣他們連哪個地方發生通緝犯連那個旅客都會收到都會收到簡訊旅客也會收到簡訊所以他們這次台北市會採取跨黨辦議員的建議就是這次比如北車他發生了這樣的一個攻擊事件那立刻在他附近的不管是商圈也好 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
13682.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13687.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
就是附近的居民都會接到細胞簡訊讓他們知道這附近就是發生這樣的一個暴力事件或攻擊事件讓大家提高警覺否則的話那個兇嫌他在馬路上在那邊丟汽油彈還有人以為是在拍電影 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13703.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13715.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
所以那個部長是不是能把這裡面這幾個最後把它規格化也就是說除了台北市之外其他的縣市有這樣大型跨年活動也會有這樣的一個規格來做防範報告委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13718.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13745.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
如果地方政府依照現在行政院災防辦他們只做疏散撤離那可以跟行政院的災防辦來申請但是申請的時候有一些要件譬如說這些群眾有沒有被教育到否則你發了一個疏散撤離沒有把明確的文字寫清楚的話疏散到東南西北邊或者疏散到上峰處或下峰處反而會造成恐慌 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13745.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13760.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
所以呢台北市政府要申請這樣的程序我們並不反對但是我希望可以跟行政院的災防辦能夠說清楚把這個訊息非常明確的規範出來那同時參與的因為這些大型活動都是不確定的人潮 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
13761.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
13785.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
所以他必須要能夠接受到這個相關的訊息的時候那他知道他自己怎麼做否則會引起恐慌其實我們都知道包括大型的賽事世界上其他大型的賽事活動甚至大型的演藝活動如果你沒有做好這方面的資訊上的告知的話引起不必要的恐慌甚至會產生其他第二次的災害反而會造成大家的困擾 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
13786.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
13799.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
所以我建議說這是一個很好的方向但是要界定清楚譬如說我們哪個地方發生地震四級的時候至少國客會告訴我們地震的震災的中央要往外擴幾公里那我們就發細胞簡訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13801.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13828.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
我想每個人在過去的訊息期間都有收到包括颱風啊警報等等這些但是這次是因為有這個維安的訊息那維安的訊息是要快那既然要快的話到底在哪裡那這一次的這個嫌犯呢他從這個林森北路的縱火的地方到北車再到中山站再到南溪這麼長一串下來這個時間點如果你發送不對的話反而會造成權限可能是上好幾十萬人會覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13830.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
13852.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
不曉得要做什麼事這一點可能我還是要一再提醒我們不反對但是還是要能夠做精確的預估其實部長這樣講我是能同意所以是不是未來因為比如說我們這個地震的這個細胞檢訊大家都也很熟悉了可是有這樣的暴力攻擊或甚至未來真的也不排除有恐攻的狀況的時候那這個細胞檢訊該怎麼發 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
13856.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
13873.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
那或許是各縣市要跟災防辦要做一個甚至要做一個演練但是我真的覺得這個事件我們付出相當的代價但是我們要用這個事件裡面從好幾個面向其實該去補強的就去補強該去檢討的就去檢討不要迴避好不好好謝謝謝謝王宏文委員的發言接下來我們請吳氏耀委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
13892.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
13895.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
謝謝主席有請署長請上署長大家辛苦了料敵從寬欲敵要從嚴今天立法院是難得的不分黨派大家一起來支持警方來強化治安一起來安定社會人心這是好事但是在這裡要呼籲不分黨派的委員趕快來審查中央政府總預算案 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
13919.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
13935.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
我們非常多的治安警力都需要預算案來支持而今天召委非常用心今天委員會有四個部會加上國安會國安局都列席但事實上這個案子事實上可能如果有機會 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
13936.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
13956.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
更應當來針對台北市警力的一些部署來進行一些檢討那我今天只能夠就我質詢警政署的部分來協力台北市警方的很多作為因為攻擊要在北投跨年砍100人就是在司堯的選區我們要超前部署 下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
13957.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
13972.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
那首先我要問一下很多人在質疑一個案件的偵辦需要相當的專業那蔣萬事長在第一時間案發之後受訪他就提到了這個張姓嫌疑人是畏罪墜樓疑似 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
13974.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
13997.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
那這樣的一個請問你們現在對於他墜樓的原因有清楚的一個還沒調調還沒定調因為我還了解他的動機還要更廣面更深入去了解他的動機是怎樣因為他人已經死了我們還要更深入去了解他的相關的基礎來做了解所以還在釐清所以說蔣市長這種未經專業的釐清偵辦就直接對外來先定調適合嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
14002.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
14029 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
這個我可能沒辦法評論所以您講得非常好我們就引用這個法醫高大成的說法就以這個范賢仁他要跳樓前他似乎是都先脫掉了他的防彈背心跟裝備之類的那就他的經驗判斷恐怕是想要減輕全身的重量所以呢依這個高大成法醫的研判可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
14030.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
14057.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
這個張文試圖逃脫的可能性可能有八成畏罪自殺可能只有兩成這是相對專業者的一個研判而就如同剛剛署長所說的真正的墜樓意圖呢還是要以驗傷驗屍最後的傷勢才能夠最後的定奪所以我是也就這個機會讓您來說明對於這個死因的部分我們應當要交由專業來偵辦這才是更為妥善好 下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
14058.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
14066.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
那張文案的模仿效應呢北投是下一個目標嗎這一個IP查出來在境外在越南是嗎是在境外 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
14068.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
14091.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
那我聽了您早上的說明到目前為止類似的跟風仿效的這種恐嚇發文應當是20多件了嗎22件那已經查獲有4名了已經查獲4名了但是因為這個威脅要在北投本席的選區來恐怖犯案的因為在境外所以目前還沒有辦法查到 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
14093.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
14115.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
確切的對這個部分就是IP在境外需要點時間好那希望能夠快速有進一步的訊息來安定民心下頁我這裡簡單跟您報告北投另外plus天母蘭雅是五四遙服務的選區我們總共是55個里人口數北投23萬5天母蘭雅8萬2 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
14116.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
14144.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
那因為這一次這個北捷的事件它有我們中央的鐵路警察局因為有北車那另外就是從中山站南西站捷運沿線有台北市的捷運警察隊以及在地的分局對不對但如果在士林北投我爬梳了一下確實中央就比較少直接的警力因為這恐怕都是地方分局的部署的地點下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
14145.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
14166.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
就以捷運來講北投有淡北捷運站從芝山一直到關渡我也調出了他們的進站出站人次可能10排是最多最密集第二是天母的芝山站第三是北投站第四是關渡站所以說要部署的捷運站的熱點 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
14167.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
14194.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
我們中央無論如何要協助台北市畢竟我過去擔任議員我就多次的爭取捷運警察隊的人力是比不足還不足啊尤其呢捷運站沿線的這些就以士林對不起就以北投天母大概是13個派出所所以說第一個警力來支援就優先在這個捷運熱點這是需要的您同意嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
14195.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
14215.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
報告委員我們第一時間中央就支援80名而且現在持續當中是第一時間就支援地方警察那未來既然有人在威嚇北投沿線的捷運站我認為我已經提點你們這些進出站的熱點人次了第二個也請中央這個恐怕是台北市政府的權責 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
14216.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
14233.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
這一次在捷運站裡頭似乎有一組的這個監視系統是故障的是失靈的在這裡要呼籲喔台北市務必要把既然已經有人恐嚇要在北投了北投沿線的捷運站就是這些相關的系統設施設備如果有任何的失靈故障要馬上去進行維修 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
14236.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
14265.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
才能夠有利於我們希望不幸不要發生但是所有的準備工作都要具足下一頁我也給您提點出來北投區的觀光景點商圈市場醫療院所大型廟宇包括北投觀光的溫泉區石牌商城晚上是黑黑狗呼聲老爹還有天母商圈好幾個百貨高島屋等等關渡宮河岸公園參拜的人數跟踏青的人數各大市場以及榮總院區 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
14267.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
14284.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
我也希望你們藉由我在地的資訊請你們協助地方派出所來強化這些熱點區域的部署在下一頁還有大型活動您剛講已經盤點出大概到年前有137個好像應當沒有士林北投的大型活動 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
14287.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
14307.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
這個地方應該是沒有啦因為我在地我資訊最清楚但是在北投區最近打卡景點吉慶禮的聖誕像福星禮的聖誕公園都是非常多外地遊客來聚集的無論如何協助石牌派出所協助北投分局來加強這些熱點節慶活動的人力協處好嗎好最後一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
14314.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
14334.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
這就是我的建議士林北投分局跟13個派出所跟55個里的緊急治安會議我認為有需要我也希望台北市政府蔣市長會來召集第二個落實官民協防強化縱向橫向的聯繫以及加強巡邏提高見景率來安定民心最後一個公民宣導 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
14335.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
14357.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
這個小局書裡面的第二個chapter當危機來臨時其實就給我們非常多如何讓人民自己能夠來自助人助守望相助最好的資訊大家都應當擁有這種新時代社會公民的一個新的公民的能力好最後呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
14358.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
14371.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
很多委員都提到因為蔣萬安市長一直提到說要用細胞簡訊因為本席曾經在2021年成功爭取將火山警報因為我的選區大屯火山系 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
14372.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
14397.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
有這個因為大屯火山是火火山所以我開始努力去爭取細胞簡訊我才知道細胞簡訊的爭取不是一天兩天說發就發他要非常嚴謹的從中央政府的災防辦再到向NCC來申請再加上要跟電信業者所以我在2021年爭取了一年多終於讓火山警報納入細胞簡訊他有建制 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
14399.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
14415.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
而且除了建制之外剛剛劉部長講得非常好他還需要搭配演練我們在大屯火山的火山警報納入細胞簡訊一年多的建制之後還搭配了中華民國史上第一次的火山災變的應變演練 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
14418.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
14425.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
所以這非常重要不是沒有任何的演練直接單頻發細胞簡訊那會反而會造成一夕之間的恐慌啊所以說我當然認為如果要把這種無差別的攻擊事件納入未來台灣的細胞簡訊防災應變的一個系統我支持那循程序可以申請 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
14439.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
14444.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
但是不是只有細胞檢訊是萬靈丹有了這個是安人心嗎我反而覺得不要漏了演練撤離這些訓練還有民防的支持這才是重中之重所以在這裡也是要以我過去爭取大屯火山災防檢訊的這些經驗想要再一次分享給大家不要以為有細胞檢訊就是萬能 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
14466.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
14477.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
好那今天辛苦了再次拜託士林北投既然已經有人恐嚇那我們就全力的中央來支持人力物力中央跟地方一起安定台灣社會民心這樣好不好好謝謝主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
14484.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
14499.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
謝謝吳師友委員發言我們這邊宣告一下中午我們不休息繼續開會本席這邊也再重新再強調一次這一次的會議最主要是因為像這樣的類恐的攻擊 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
14499.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
14519.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
是有計劃性的是必須要額外的重視所以一定要統整我們相關部會的這些資訊資源情資醫療警政這些種種要統整起來因為我們避免未來發生再次這樣憾事因為人命最重要我們真希望台灣能夠一切平安那接下來我們請下一位委員是盧縣議委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
14527.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
14532.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
主席有請我們刑事警察局座右偉局長請處處長我們先讓署長跟部長休息 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
14540.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
14559.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
那我最主要是要問說到現在為止有知道犯案動機了嗎我們目前還在清查中因為大概都知道說是生存遊戲謎是嗎是 知道嗎通常我們看到國外的話大概就知道說大概是宗教的原因或者是種族的原因 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
14559.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
14574.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
我們目前不太知道他的原因今天有點遺漏就是說很像沒有叫他之前的單位過來也就是空軍的太前佛國兵馬志願役的空軍志願役然後他是酒駕太儲 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
14575.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
14593.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
所以我在想他的介入點應該是在哪裡我說他的犯罪的動機或者是說他的心理層面的因素可能這個部分是不是以後在警察大學在上課的時候是不是要多一點這方面的教育我剛看了時間點就是17點23分15點40分到18點50分一共190分鐘裡面的時序裡面第一件死亡案件是5點23分 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
14604.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
14629.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
然後5點41分就說已經鎖定這個個案可是他5點23分發生第一件到第二件就是大概還有一個多小時的時間大概有75分鐘的時間你們已經鎖定了可是75分鐘裡面是一個空窗期就是他第二個死亡的這個當中你們有做了哪些努力這個部分報言 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
14633.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
14651.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
那個縱火 縱火的是知道是縱火但是縱火不知道他會去做隨機殺人因為他不同區域在中山那縱火的狀況中山就在追就是縱火之後知道他是民而且到台灣去追好那第一個他去做北捷5點23分 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
14652.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
14655.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
對我要說這個時間裡面對這個時間軸裡面因為這個時間軸裡面5點23分到到這個18點11分這個有影像出來才連結到說這個是去縱火的所以這個是兩件事情所以兩件那我們當然案件的發生就是跟這個身份跟時間在做賽跑這個是一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
14676.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
14694.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
是一個通緝方他有一個可以切入的地點就是說他是2024年11月25號教育招集令沒有到然後可是隔了8個月才發通緝也就是今年的7月11號那7月11號到現在大概也有幾個月的時間我是覺得說可能在這個通緝或者是說去 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
14695.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
14713.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
找這個人的這個我覺得努力不夠所以我說可能你們有講一些你們的檢討報告比如說你們要從訓練 從裝備 從演習可是這個部分我覺得應該也要去把它強化是不是這個通緝的時間那麼長一段時間裡面你們沒有掌握它的行蹤 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
14715.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
14729.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
對剛剛我們法部也就是對於他通緝了發布的狀況那未來這個部分我們會再去做強化就是也就是他因為通緝我們當然是會去做查補那通緝的狀況就是他的居住手 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
14730.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
14743.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
這一定是會去做查譜不過這個人已經跟家裡這個斷了大概兩年以上的時間沒有住在他的這個資料的一個這個地方所以他是一個不定時的需要一點時間去做查譜謝謝署長那我們請衛福部次長跟羅一鈞局長還有署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
14759.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
14781.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
市長我看你們的報告就是大概都針對我們的社安網也就是說你們看我們可以預期說你們接下來要多800多億的一個所謂的一個社安的在按2.0不過這個裡面什麼脆弱家庭保護措施加害人處境沒有這個針對我們這個類似這個邊緣人的這個部分所以是不是可以掌握 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
14781.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
14803.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
以後這樣子的一個 比如說酒駕太促然後他是高度封閉他是不是在那個時候在酒駕太促的時候就應該介入他的輔導機制在裡面不然你完全沒有就醫記錄你是不是那個時候他空軍在離開的時候他應該就要輔導他去做心理諮商或者是說精神科的一個診治不然你就沒有辦法接觸到這個人 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
14804.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
14820.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
是非常感謝委員的一個槌尋我剛剛你在回答的時候也說就是說我們過去我也必須要跟委員報告全世界的社安網基本上主要真的都是在集中在有關於貧窮家暴 兒虐 身心障礙藥酒飲以及精神疾病 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
14823.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
14842.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
我們現在面臨一個新興的一個整個風險的形態其實主要大概這一次的個案呈現出兩個特色第一個就是說它是一個成人孤立另外第二個就是說它是一個失聯的風險群它的原因包括我們現在目前知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
14845.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
14857.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
我現在目前就是說我剛也在這一個我們回來三個月之內那個召集專家那個國內有關這方面最好的學者專家學者我們會研擬這個新的風險的那個類別我們趕快來做 好謝謝那局長羅一鈞局長那個關於這個AIDS的這個部分風險就是說這個有沒有所謂的 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
14868.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
14888.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
各自的一個疑慮或者是說你現在到目前為止你的預期可以掌握的可以公告就是說給大家知道說這個是安全的這個時間點你有做預估嗎就是在事件發生後72小時之內必須要完成投藥才可以把這個感染的機率降到零 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
14888.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
14907.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
所以就已經住院的這個個案部分我們都有個別透過公衛系統跟醫療系統去傳達跟做評估所以在醫療系統這邊已經在住院的有需要投藥的這個傷患的話已經完成投藥如果不幸有人確診那國家有沒有賠償的機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
14909.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
14930.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
應該是這樣子講就說完成投藥而且他完成投藥這位應該是說相關的這個需要投藥的都在汽車的時候是不會有感染的情形如果真的有發生感染的話因為這個艾滋的治療都是公費在提供後續有健保會支持所以我想就那個治療醫療的部分都是會由我們政府跟健保這邊來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
14931.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
14952.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
只是說就這個責任的部分呢可能是牽涉到說砍傷之後造成後續連續感染這些的責任賠償的話那個我們會再請教相關的專家來就如果真的有發生不過要強調就是說我們認為只要完成投藥是不會有這個感染的情形發生謝謝局長那就麻煩局長再多追蹤謝謝你謝謝謝謝趙委員好 謝謝盧縣議委員發言接下來我們請洪孟凱委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
14963.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
14986.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
主席謝謝 麻煩請內政部長跟警政署長請劉部長跟張署長部長署長 大家都很關心1219的這個事件我們今天來做一個徹底的檢討跟討論最重要的就是希望是防範未來其中一個部分很多委員可能都有提到就是在於這位凶嫌他其實是通緝犯 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
14987.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
15013.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
那但是過去在這幾年裡面我們通氣的系統跟行政上的資源有沒有因此脫節因為在這一個事件裡面兇險它其實在台北市租屋甚至它的這個租屋的一個地點其實也就是寧博愛特區附近那以及網路使用平台還有公共場合的廠刊等等的但是居然我們都沒有辦法有這個發現 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
15015.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
15023.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
未來有沒有什麼可以更進一步因為本期剛剛查了一下去年的資料我們現在通緝犯的人數居然高達八萬人 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
15025 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
15048.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
是不是登記在案的 我們有八萬人通緝犯這個通緝的部分就是法務部發布通緝犯之後不管是通緝給檢證機關或移民署我們都有要求各縣市政府檢察局的去做加強這個TAP那TAP的這個第一表演者大概就是他的戶籍地或者是他的居住地址 第一時間去做了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
15049.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
15067.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
那像這個這個嫌犯他的嫌犯已經跟家裡失聯大概兩年以上了是兩年以上了本席現在講的時候我想我們今天都是就事論事就是說這個通緝犯他其實發佈通緝也已經半年之久那在這半年裡面他可以上網去購買不管是我們認為說他是相對來講比較一般人不會去購買的煙霧彈 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
15073.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
15088.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
這個甚至他的刀是從哪邊來的不得而知可是一個通緝犯在博愛特區附近租屋然後趴趴走然後買這些東西他有網路的足跡等等的但我們沒有任何可以更積極有效作為去掌握嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
15089.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
15116.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
我想未來就是說對於查捕導犯在偵查的這個方向跟技巧能夠更加的精進比如講像未來就是通緝犯我們可能會對於他使用的電子的這些相關的產品再更加去深入去蒐集他真正住的這個地方不然就是就只有在我們公共的場所遇到我們的同等的臨檢入檢去查捕的遇到狀況這個機率就比較低 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
15118.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
15142.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
這被動這機率比較低如果主動的話剛剛委員提的也是很好未來就是他使用的這些的電子的這個產品比方他有用他的真實身份證去購買的手機啦或者是或者是他的類似上網的IG什麼各方面去積極的去做查譜這個部分未來可能我們會再做再做內部的這個精進是那是不是內政部跟法務部這邊能夠來去開會討論到怎麼樣能夠針對通緝犯的這部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
15148.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
15163.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
他既然已經是通緝犯了照理講他就已經犯了相關的一些刑責那已經有案底或有刑責的人他居然可以在外面趴趴走然後還去做這樣子高危險的事情我想任何國家都不應該允許來第二個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
15163.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
15192.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
追捕的過程裡面當然大家也有看到就是說我們員警非常英勇本系列一而再再三支持我們的員警但是在這個案件裡面有提到是說這一個凶嫌他拿刀但是我們有看到他就在頂樓的圍捕的時候其實我們的員警相對來講有警棍 有手電筒可是那個距離跟長度也會讓人家覺得說如果真的有衝突的時候其實他跟那個刀的長度是差不多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
15192.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
15215.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
那我們也看到國外也有一些案例不管是日本美國日本或是歐洲等等的有用較長的這一些防範性的武器或者是制止的武器我們有沒有考慮類似的這樣子這個是有我想就是要在第一次因為很多委員都問了就是說那個狀況是一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
15216.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
15244.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
緊急而且是一個跟時間賽跑所以當時是入口有一個交通港交通港是沒有佩戴槍支那一發這個訊息就通報那通報到線上線上去都是有帶槍的派出所是有要下班的也趕過去我覺得就是當然是這是我們這個是一個一個警察的這個第一時間的反應到未來可能要更加精進他應該是要領用裝備再去 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
15245.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
15259.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
那我覺得就是說很多的這個時間都是跟時間在做賽跑那當然領悟專輩的時間會應該會延遲領悟專輩大概超過兩三分鐘去可能他又犯人 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
15260.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
15284.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
你看那個時間他可能就本期現在提醒的是說我們你講的所謂領用裝備他可能是指的是槍支那槍支就會再派出所或是再分局但本期現在講的是說我們不要到最後就陷入是說警察能不能領了槍支然後能不能在現場用槍因為這可能又有更深像網路上這兩天也有在討論就是說為什麼警察到最後不敢用槍因為可能用槍之後如果說因為今天這個凶嫌 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
15285.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
15308.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
不會說不敢用槍啦對我知道我說如果說他今天真的用槍還要寫報告等等部分後續有一些反鎖但是請龍雪本席提醒我們也看到有國外有很多這種重大的公共運輸場域的暴力攻擊衝突等等他其實是用譬如說比較長的武器包括說那個繩索等等的把他給制止 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
15309.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
15338.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
或是要把他給絆倒讓他失去行動能力那其實兩三個人來配合兩三位有訓練有所有員警配合不要是一個單打獨鬥那這樣子就可以拉開距離並且保護我們員警的安全也可以迅速的制止那這一些裝備跟武器他就不也許就不僅是只能儲存在派出所或是分局他也許是重大的一些地方或是說甚至警車上面等等的他就可以有配置 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
15339.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
15365.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
那未來有沒有針對這部分能夠再做進一步的討論這個我們來嚴厲啦就是說對於可能就是比較密集或者人潮聚集的場所這一些的這個這個我們的警力配屬單位再加上這個配備上的一個配置因為我們希望讓遠景可以有安全情況今天是真的沒事發生那如果說他是做困獸之鬥假設遠景在圍牆上就是在頂樓的時候他做困獸之鬥來攻擊遠景 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].start |
15367.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].end |
15394.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].text |
以手電筒等等來講的話其實跟他的距離是沒有優勢的本席是要提出這一句手電筒是當時在做照明的那我是說他員警手上的武器是沒有優勢跟他的距離是沒有優勢的本席還是在強調是說如果說有較長的武器能夠把他給絆倒把他給圍捕的話員警才會有優勢那最後還是一樣我想一分鐘再確認一下因為案件在 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].start |
15396.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].end |
15416.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].text |
5點23分就已經有一位余先生他到時候不幸身亡那其實已經發生了命案了但到了6點34分這個兇嫌才跑到這所謂的中山站跟這個南溪成品這邊那其實距離也算近他還是在那一個生活圈範圍裡面捷運站一兩站的一個距離 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].start |
15416.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].end |
15444.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].text |
那本席想要講的是說其實不只是細胞簡訊因為5.23分已經發生可是我們還沒有掌握兇嫌等於說兇嫌是在逃他等於是逃犯那如果說我們有一個機制能夠讓周邊的民眾了解就是說有這樣的一個在逃的危險人物那會不會讓當6點34分當民眾看到他在馬路上有異樣的時候大家就多一份警覺 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].start |
15445.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].end |
15457.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].text |
不然其實很多人都講到是說當6點34分在那個中山站南溪成品前面的馬路上他在丟擲煙霧彈的時候有人以為是拍電影 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].start |
15459.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].end |
15487.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].text |
對不對可是5點23分已經發生命案了如果說沒有5點23分的命案的話那也許大家不知道他是突然出現但本席現在提到的是說5點23分已經發生命案那如果說那周邊的民眾有辦法知道說現在有一個極端危險的人正在逃脫請大家密切注意互相提醒周邊發生可疑的人事物請一定馬上通報警方那是不是可能在6點34分 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].start |
15488.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].end |
15506.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].text |
當他再出現在中山捷運站的時候民眾看到可能會多一份警覺就不會以為他是拍電影而是就會自然聯想到說是不是有可能這就是兇險這一個部分未來可以做什麼樣的加強那我們對於這個部分如果有更正確的信息應該可以嚴厲來辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].start |
15509.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].end |
15534.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].text |
署長因為本席要提醒的是當天本席在新北市跑行程也是看變成是說看社群看這些推播的新聞但是都沒有辦法了解事實的全貌而且到底他有沒有被逮捕或說現在情況怎麼樣不明但如果說在那周邊的民眾能夠有更警覺的一個訊息那也許大家會多一份警覺你可以同意嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].start |
15535.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].end |
15541.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].text |
我想就是說未來在訊息的這個部分要更正確讓我們更省勢嚴厲來做一個處理好感謝本席三個提問謝謝謝謝洪門凱文的發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].start |
15554.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].end |
15567.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].text |
接下來請黃國昌委員黃國昌委員黃國昌委員不在楊瓊英委員楊瓊英委員楊瓊英委員不在陳雪生委員陳雪生委員陳雪生委員不在現在我們請吳佩奕委員發言好謝謝主席我請交通部次長請交通部次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].start |
15587.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].end |
15606.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].text |
市長好 我們台北車站發生了重大人為維安事件我們警政署此定調那就在上個禮拜五在北車也就是在我的選區台北市的中正區那首先我要非常的感謝我們第一線的警察同仁還有我們北捷高鐵的迅速的應變 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].start |
15607.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].end |
15617.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].text |
同時我們也看到很多的民眾一起起身勇敢的來協助組黨包括不幸過世的余家廠先生他破壞了行兇者的計畫這拯救了很多人的一命那包括了我們北車星巴克的店員趕緊拉下鐵門百貨公司的員工也協助來撤離等等的這是非常的感謝但是我們同樣要檢討的是能不能夠更好的預防 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].start |
15633.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].end |
15635.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].text |
那因為台北車站他是一個多鐵共購的場域所以我在總質詢的時候也請拜託我們院長還有部長在我們台北車站我們的跟台鐵跟北捷高鐵好多個單位之間我們的協同勤務這個一定要務必要來加強 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].start |
15654.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].end |
15658.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].text |
我們看一下這個就不只是一個單位或一個場所的風險它其實構成是場域風險像這一次這個歹徒他從台北車站到中山站是透過地下街在移動的那麼我們地下街其實可以連接台鐵高鐵跟機捷代表這個風險都是相同的 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].start |
15674.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].end |
15684.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].text |
那再來呢這兩天北捷跟高鐵也收到了這個恐嚇的訊息所以呢我要請教的是因為在今年的10月台北車站發生性侵事件之後大家就在討論是我們台北車站聯合防災中心這個聯合的機制2019年的時候就成立了 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].start |
15694.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].end |
15711.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].text |
那麼我在這個SOP當中看到我們當然每一季演練一次那麼在演練的情境當中也包括了無差別攻擊這樣子的演練上一次我們台北車站聯合防災中心針對無差別攻擊進行演練是什麼時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].start |
15714.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].end |
15732.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].text |
包委員就台北車站的我們有公共車站的聯合防災會議那上一次針對那個無差別的演練應該是在三年前詳細時間我會再提供我看到的資料上一次針對無差別攻擊演練也就在2019年 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].start |
15734.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].end |
15760.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].text |
當然我們台鐵自己本來每年就針對恐攻有做演練但是我剛強調台北車站他是一個多鐵共購的場域那麼請問這一次聯合防災中心在這一次案件當中他發揮了什麼作用例如說第一個這個訊息是從哪裡來收到的是我跟委員報告我想剛提到了聯合防災中心因為整個台北大台北車站包括很多市鐵台鐵高鐵 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].start |
15761.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].end |
15783.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].text |
陶傑北傑那另外一個四街就是四個地下街的一個業者另外一個微風大概總共九個單位所以這九個單位成立一個所謂的台北車站的聯合防災中心那平常是有人在監看的那有發生事情的時候這個的指揮官律定是台北車站的站長台北車站的站長 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].start |
15784.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].end |
15798.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].text |
那這個在這次上禮拜五的這個情況發生以後馬上第一時間就通知不管是110也好或者是台北市消防局還有119接著一樣通知這九個業者 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].start |
15799.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].end |
15817.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].text |
全部都要進駐到每個單位要派一名人員進駐我們在什麼時間進駐這邊看到的應該是在28分就通知了所以我們是確實有啟動的我也有看到那我請教一下因為這一次後來發現北捷有傳出監視器故障 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].start |
15818.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].end |
15835.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].text |
但是我們在這個聯合防災中心我們各個單位的監視器本來就是有整合 借接的嘛那之前我們有沒有收貨通報呢照理說這故障應該不會是當下即時發生的不知道什麼時候故障 有沒有收貨通報這個沒有我們在SOP裡面有沒有訂定相關的程序 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].start |
15841.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].end |
15859.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].text |
總共有九個單位所以它監視器非常非常的多沒有辦法全部一次都有那當然未來我們可以要求剛剛講這九個單位必須如果你有這樣的監視器的問題應該要通報那我們也會未來在聯合防災中心這部分我們來加強是沒錯這就要拜託交通部了因為我們剛剛講到這一個台北車展它牽涉到單位很多各個場域之間風險是相通的這有可能這個風險有可能跑到我們基捷去這台灣的國門 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].start |
15871.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].end |
15891.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].text |
所以呢要拜託一下像監視器故障這個照理說每個單位平常都有例行性在巡查的有問題有故障就要報休不是災害發生了才發現故障所以要請你們在這個你們聯合的單位當中請各個單位大家要來配合務必要盡量把治安的死角降到最低謝謝市長慶輝那最後請給我兩分鐘我邀請內政部部長有請劉部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].start |
15903.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].end |
15912.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].text |
部長好 這一次的事件令人相當的遺憾但是全民也開始重視其實民防它很重要因為我們在害不知道什麼時候要發生但我們平時可以來做準備所以我們台灣全民安全指引因為像我自己就有收到我們李明打電話來問我說要去哪裡領什麼時候可以收得到 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].start |
15922.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].end |
15951.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].text |
因為裡面他包含了例如說面對有毒物質要怎麼應變如果旁邊有這個大量出血的傷患的話我們怎麼樣來協助目前我們什麼時候全民安全指引全國可以發放完畢現在台北市已經全部發放完畢那目前全台灣發送的比例是86.6是那我們預計是在什麼時候會發放完畢在農曆年前可以發放完畢因為我們是國防部在印的時候他是分四個階段在印所以他一印完我們就馬上請這個村裡辦公室為主來發放 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].start |
15952.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].end |
15968.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].text |
是有沒有規劃做社區對民眾面對面的宣傳說明會報告委員我們現在因為我們認為說在非六都的16個縣市都會到這個大型群眾聚集的地方尤其是宮廟所以我們現在安排大概已經有六七場了 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].start |
15969.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].end |
15990.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].text |
我們非常支持我們認為要多推廣民眾民防相關的知識但是呢我們也支持要給足相關的預算我們這次大家都希望說公務同仁要給他足夠的糧草民防也是請問我們今年的全民全社會防衛任性的預算有在年度預算裡面有沒有被刪除 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].start |
15991.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].end |
15994.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].text |
我看到的是我們被刪除了2900萬那後來呢針對全身防衛任性的訓練我們有沒有內政部有沒有來辦理追加預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].start |
16001.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].end |
16019.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].text |
追加預算沒有後來就是把這個被刪除的地方在那個再回復後面有再回復我看到了我們在這個追加預算審查的時候跟這個民房相關的預算還有在被刪除甚至還有被凍結的那凍結的預算是什麼時候解凍的 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].start |
16023.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].end |
16042.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].text |
好像到上個月11月底才來解凍已經快過完了來不及了所以再一次的我要拜託因為很多民眾來跟我們要求也提醒希望我們把民防相關的這些知識跟常識可以多加來推廣我們要拜託立法院所有的同仁大家共同來支持預算謝謝部長謝謝主席謝謝吳佩奕委員的發言那接下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].start |
16052.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].end |
16072.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].text |
蘇清泉委員蘇清泉委員蘇清泉委員不在高金素梅委員高金素梅委員高金素梅委員不在林倩琦委員林倩琦委員林倩琦委員不在鍾嘉斌委員鍾嘉斌委員鍾嘉斌委員不在登記發言委員除不在長者外其餘均已發言完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].start |
16074.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].end |
16096.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].text |
詢問結束委員 劉建國 高進 宿美希 新穎 林倩琦 楊瓊英 蘇清泉所提書面質詢列入紀錄刊登公報3 書面質詢和未及答覆部分請相關單位於一週內以書面答覆並複製本會本次會議到此結束現在散會 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].start |
16164.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].end |
16165.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].text |
到底有沒有掌握到陰謀論 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].start |
16185.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].end |
16194.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].text |
谢谢观看 欢迎订阅 |