| IVOD_ID |
17140 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17140 |
| 日期 |
2025-12-22 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-19-17 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第17次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
17 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第17次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-12-22T08:32:23+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-12-22T09:57:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
01:24:37 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/16eb79f0bb3b77dbc22d0fafdfecfd60b59bb4d1c2baa0f23fa04411479d882af014ea3ec5905b415ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-12-22T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第17次全體委員會議（事由：一、繼續審查：
(一) 本院委員謝衣鳯等16人擬具「農民退休儲金條例第七條條文修正草案」案。
(二) 本院委員郭國文等17人擬具「農民退休儲金條例第七條條文修正草案」案。
(三) 本院委員蔡易餘等20人擬具「農民退休儲金條例第二條及第七條條文修正草案」案。
(四) 本院委員陳亭妃等19人擬具「農民退休儲金條例第二條及第七條條文修正草案」案。
二、審查：
(五) 行政院函請審議「農民退休儲金條例第二條及第七條條文修正草案」案。
(六) 本院委員邱議瑩等18人擬具「農民退休儲金條例第七條條文修正草案」案。
(七) 本院委員林俊憲等21人擬具「農民退休儲金條例第二條及第七條條文修正草案」案。
(八) 本院委員陳俊宇等20人擬具「農民退休儲金條例第二條及第七條條文修正草案」案。
(九) 本院委員王美惠等22人擬具「農民退休儲金條例第二條及第七條條文修正草案」案。
(十) 本院委員劉建國等19人擬具「農民退休儲金條例部分條文修正草案」案。
(十一) 本院委員許宇甄等19人擬具「農民退休儲金條例第二條及第七條條文修正草案」案。
(十二) 本院委員賴瑞隆等18人擬具「農民退休儲金條例第二條及第七條條文修正草案」案。
(十三) 本院委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等25人擬具「農民退休儲金條例第二條及第七條條文修正草案」案。
(十四) 本院委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具「農民退休儲金條例第九條及第十四條條文修正草案」案。
(十五) 本院委員黃秀芳等22人擬具「農民退休儲金條例部分條文修正草案」案。
(十六) 本院委員郭國文等21人擬具「農民退休儲金條例部分條文修正草案」案。
(十七) 本院委員邱鎮軍等19人擬具「農民退休儲金條例第二條及第七條條文修正草案」案。
(十八) 本院委員丁學忠等16人擬具「農民退休儲金條例第二條及第七條條文修正草案」案。(逐條審查)
第(五)案至第(十八)案如未接獲院會交付審查之議事處來文，則不予審查。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:32:23 - 09:57:00 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
1828.875 |
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1842.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
報告委員會 請組密報告出席人數報告委員會出席委員5人 以組法定人數現在開會進行報告事項 請宣讀上次會議議事錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1844.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1866.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
立法院第11屆第4會期經紀委員會第16次全體委員會議示錄時間114年12月15日星期一9時至12時39分地點紅樓101會議室出席委員林黛樺等14人列席委員黃國昌等9人列席人員農業部部長陳俊記環境部常務次長沈志修等主席楊昭紀委員瓊英報告事項宣讀上次會議示錄決定確定 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1869.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1889.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
邀請農業部部長及環境部首長就2027年全面禁止廚藝養豬進行報告並備諮詢農業部部長陳俊濟及環境部常務次長沈志修報告後委員林大化等19人提出諮詢均由農業部部長陳俊濟及環境部常務次長沈志修等及其答覆決定以登記發言委員除不在場者外區域均與發言完畢 詢答結束 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1891.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1902.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
2 委員陳冠廷所提書面質詢列入紀錄 刊登公報3 書面質詢和未及答覆部分 請相關單位於一週內與書面答覆並複製本會委員 另有要求期限者從期鎖定 上會宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1910.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1919.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
因為現在我們的委員已經組我們的這個可以確定的議事錄人數我們先確定上次會議議事錄OK嗎OK嗎議事錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1930.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1954.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
謝謝我們通過本日議程所列討論事項第五案至第十八案因為仍在復議期所以目前尚未接獲院會交付審查的議事處的來文所以今日的會議不予審查我們今天只有審查我們一到四案的部分我們繼續進行討論事項請一併宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1959.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1979.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
討論事項 繼續審查1 本院委員謝依鳳等16人委員郭國文等17人 分別擬據農民退休儲金條例第7條條文修正草案等二案2 本院委員蔡宇等20人委員陳亭飛等19人 分別擬據農民退休儲金條例第2條及第7條條文修正草案等二案 宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1982.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1998.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
我們先介紹一下在場委員還有列席的官員有楊瓊英委員 蔡議員 賴銳龍委員還有我們的陳俊敬部長所代理我們所有的同仁大家辛苦了那我們現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
2002.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
2018.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
因为本日议程所列讨论事项已于12月8日询答完毕现在进行主条讨论我们请议事人员宣读所有条文若有修正动义及附带决议请一并宣读宣读完毕后我们来进行协商请宣读 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2019.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2044.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
農民退休儲金條例修正草案委員蔡易瑜等二十人提案第二條本條例之主管機關為農業部委員陳廷飛等十九人提案第二條同委員蔡易瑜等提案委員謝一鳳等十六人提案第七條除第三項墨具修正為按月提繳一點五倍金額其餘同縣刑條文委員郭國文等十七人提案第七條同委員謝一鳳等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2045.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2072.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
委員蔡易宇等二十人提案第七條第一項至第三項除第三項莫具修正為按月提繳相對應金額其餘同現行條文增訂第四項前項農民及主管機關依第三條第一項共同提繳之金額應合幣計算為提繳總額由主管機關與農民依百分之六十與百分之四十之比例分擔之現行條文第四項一列為第五項 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2073.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2083.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
委員陳亭飛等19人提案第7條 同委員蔡依如等提案委員楊瓊英等3人所提修正動議第7條同委員蔡依如等提案 宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2096.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2111.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
好 我們跟大家報告我們要開始進行協商之前我先跟我們所有的委員做一下報告讓大家也知道我們後續的處理因為原本5到18案 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2113.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2128.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
我们已经有希望各党团来签署所谓的不复议的部分可是有党团还没签出所以目前相关的资料讨论四项五到八案 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2129.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2153.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
5到18案都还在复一期要到12月30号所以我们待会我们讨论完我们会让他出委员会然后并所有后面5到18案然后并案我们再来进行协商我们不要再等了我们一样就是这个都是对农民好不论是对我们 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2154.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2182.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
整個退休的儲金農民的發展他後面的生活有保障包括我們青農的未來也是很重要所以我覺得時間很重要所以今天待會一到四案我們針對一到四案討論完五到十八案我們一樣就是併到我們協商來做協商的處理那我們現在進行協商 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2186.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2213.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
來我們請農業部說明我們第二條應該這沒有問題吧對啊第二條最主要是把我們的原來的那個行政院農業委員會改成農業部這個部分我想我們主席第二條沒意見第二條沒意見來第七條來那個部長說明第七條的部分那基本上 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2214.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2233.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
那個兩位委員的版本是由提成那個就是1.5倍1比1.5倍這樣子那相對的我們送到那個立法院的版本雖然說還沒有送到委員會來討論我們是用4比6的方式來處理的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2234.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2252.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
那這個部分跟蔡議員委員跟陳廷輝委員還有楊瓊瑩委員三個領銜的版本是一致的但是文字可能要做一些修改那是不是我這邊可以念我們行政院送到立法院的一個版本的一個說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2254.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2272.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
那最主要就是因為原來的部分是第一個部分就是現在已經沒有所謂的那個基本工資現在是用那個最低工資的部分這是第一個可能要做調整的那第二個部分就是我們現在所設計的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2274.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2290.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
基本工資的那個最低工資的兩倍當做一個母數那這個母數裡面政府出60%那農民出40%用這種方式那因為原來的部分他的原來的條文的寫法是 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2291.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2319.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
用那個最低工資然後最低工資只講農民他是針對最低工資的百分之最高百分之十然後第二段在寫說政府要對等的去做提撥但是現在用用總數天花板不變的情況之下那個政府跟農民的比例是是6比4的部分所以我是建議就是用我們原來現在送到上禮拜五送到立法院的一個版本我可不可以念一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2321.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2342.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
好 就是第七條 農民與主管機關依第三條第一項規定按月共同提繳之總金額然後依每月最低工資乘以提繳比例之兩倍計算那農民負擔總金額之40%主管機關負擔總金額之60%就是這裡做改變 那後面是一樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2351.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2372.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
好 那個部長報告完了因為行政院的版本一樣是在這個12月30號才會有這個通過複製期然後原本我們是希望說可以不複製但是因為有黨還沒簽所以這個是農業部所提出的他的條文其實方向是一致的 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2373.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2395.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
就是政府负担60%农民负担40%只是他们依照他们可以的相关单位汇商出来的文字结果希望用行政院版的方式下去做论述所以方向没有改变大概是这个状况那我们请这个赖瑞龙委员 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2397.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2423.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
好 謝謝主席 謝謝部長我想大方向上我同意農業部這樣一個方向的來修改但是我也提出來 但是因為還沒有過戶預期我是主張因為其實在農民退休儲金的部分其實都還是相對偏低包括農民的也是相對的偏低包括體撥的這個部分那我希望給予更多的一些支持所以上次在質詢的時候我也提到 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2424.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2448.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
布林麵包思考用7比3的一個這樣的思考的方式給予農民更多的支持跟照顧同時間也更加的鼓勵大家因為現在農民的包括不管是現在的親農要回去的回鄉返鄉服務的部分其實相對於還是困難難度還是很高的而且我是希望說能夠有更多完善的這些制度我覺得這一段時間以來從 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2451.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2465.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
這八九年來其實我們推出了這些相關的這些制度面其實對於農民有多了很多的保障但如果說在這方面我們能夠更進一步完善的話是有機會讓農民的退休這一塊能夠做得更好了那相較於 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2466.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2491.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
其他的部分我覺得農民跟勞工都還有很大的空間我希望農民這一塊能夠再加一把勁部長是不是思考看看就是3比7的部分這樣的思考70比30的方式來給政府再多出一點點然後再給農民少一點點然後希望更多農民加入到這個制度裡面來然後為他們未來的退休增加更多的保障部長好 謝謝我們請楊瓊英委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2495.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2520.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
非常感謝本席所提的修正動議跟提案也是在等待進來那也謝謝主席以後我們就是併案去討論那一個重點就是在我們農民依照第一項的規定提繳農民退休儲金之後主管機關依農民提繳之農民退休儲金 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2522.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2536.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
按月提繳相對金額因為以往我們的條例是按月提繳相同金額所以這個相同跟相對那就是等於是隨時應變滾動式去 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2540.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2568.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
當時的一個情境所以針對於相同跟相對本席的提案希望能夠得到行政部門以及我們同仁的一個支持那第二個也就是在針對於我們農民及主管機關單位第三條第一項共同提繳的金額因何並計算為提繳總額由主管機關單位與農民依實際上本席的提案是6比4的一個提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2570.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2583.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
的一個比例分擔那為什麼會這麼提因為我們原來所通過的大家努力通過的這個5比5的比例呢在整個執行過程當中它的落實度並 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2585.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2606.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
達不到我們的滿意度而且它的普遍性也不夠所以本席才會提出6比4的一個比例當然剛剛行政部門農業部長也提出你們的版本也是6比4那也有委員同仁希望7比3我想我們共同的目標也就是希望能夠真正的讓農民 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2607.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2629.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
有一個安定感那同時這個安定感也鼓勵我們的青龍能夠加入這個行列所以以上是本席所提議 謝謝好 謝謝楊瓊英委員 請蔡議員主席我剛好舉手我在蔡議員之前沒有他很早就來我剛才在他前面蔡議員他比較早 對啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2635.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2654.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
那個部長我想你今天這個比例4比6的這個方式其實有呼應本席當初所提的那個草案那時候草案的比例上是有呼應因為當初本席是說提撥跟相對提撥率是1比1比5的概念所以比例上是有符合 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2655.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2679.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
但是在所得替代率當中是不符合的也就是說你只是減少提撥被保險人的一個成本負擔但是沒有增加這個以後的給付金額也就是你剛剛你在報告當中所謂天花板不變的一個情況底下可是今天我們還要回到當初草案當中我們技術委會提出修正的最原始的本意 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2680.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2696.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
最原始的本意就是說我們在農民儲物金實施如此多年的情況底下覆蓋率還是如此之低也就是說不到三成不到三成我們在制度上的誘因不足但制度上的誘因有兩種一種是提撥的這個給付金額另外一種是 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2700.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2727.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
整個提撥金額另外一個是給付的金額也就是所得替代率好 今天你是用想要用提撥的金額的成本的負擔的降低來提高這個覆蓋率不是嗎那另外一個方式是把這個給付的金額提高的增加覆蓋率好 你現在已經把比例上呼應本息但是本息還是認為不足還是不夠應該還是要在這一個覆蓋率的提高還有一個重要的誘因其實是在給付的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2728.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2751.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
就是政府相對提撥的幾乎的部分的倍數的成長也是剛剛所謂的天花板的部分要予以打破我認為這優因才夠可是你今天多數的委員都已經提出這樣的版本我畢竟說是一步的進展但是我認為還不夠但是我認為這個部分呢你要去思考如果我說你今天所提的降低了這個提撥的這個成本之後數年之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2752.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2757.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
我們的這個覆蓋率還是沒有提高的話那就顯然你的政策判斷有問題嘛 部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2759.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2784.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
所以我待會兒會提一個附帶決議案我跟蔡議委員提一個附帶決議案這個附帶決議案的問題我給你三年的時間每年因為現在不到三成附加率不到三成我們目標最起碼要五成以上一年給你7%的一個目標值三年之內你如果沒有達到50%的話那我們應該重新來思考把這個天花板給打開 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2785.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2809.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
把這個天花板打開才有意義嘛 對不對否則的話一個農民儲金的推動always在那邊低檔回旋不夠三成 那要看清楚那要看清楚 農民你撒出來的菜我們沒人要吃嘛 你的菜色不夠豐富嘛所以部長 你要好好思考這個問題啊你只是片面的修改 你沒有完全的修改啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2809.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2834.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
你一邊修改 另外一邊沒有修改你把地板 幾戶的地板壓低把提撥的地板壓低但是沒有把幾戶的天花板提高啦我認為最大的誘因其實是在所得替代率啦所有的所得替代率在最關鍵啦目前的所有的農民津貼再加上我們農民儲金的所得那個總金額是所有職業別當中最低的加起來一般就沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2838.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2858.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
連最低生活標準的查聽得懂對不對 部長我們修改這個 用意是在這邊嘛我們要建構整個農民的一個社會安全網嘛老年的一個退休生活嘛關鍵是這裡也不中麻煩你縮刻一下啦這才是重點啦我給你三檔的時間 醫生 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2861.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2882.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
那个报告一下因为易宇他是第一个到我们经济委员会的所以我很公正的所以我问我讲一下预防待会大家会有争议蔡易宇委员外就是谢凤来陈超明这个部分我们都有记录不好意思谢谢我们请蔡易宇委员好 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2888.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2914.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
我想跟部長來反映農民退休儲金基本上就是為了讓農民有一個退休制度那這樣的一個退休制度我相信如果我們這次把它改成4比6基本上這個方向是朝向更好的方向可是我一直想要跟部長來反映一件事就是說我們農業部所管的這樣的應該是包括農林漁牧 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2915.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2934.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
那我就一直在思考因為在我的選區有農民也有漁民那漁民他們是投保的都是投保在漁會就是所謂的漁保的部分漁保的部分你來想像他是政府他如果是甲類漁民就是沒有一定雇主的特地做漁民他是自己負擔20%政府負擔80%這是漁民的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2939.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2954.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
所以你看到很多事實上它又屬於農又屬於魚的它會趨之若鶩的讓自己去變成魚保的為什麼它會這樣那就是因為2比8所以大家很多人都說我想辦法要變魚保 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2957.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2980.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
那為什麼會有這樣就是這個制度的差異所以我在想農業部你們應該制度方向要朝向說未來呼籲這些漁民都回來參加我們的所謂的農保這樣才是比較健康的概念不然你說這樣的話沒有一定雇主的漁民他就是要變成在投保就變成漁保就是漁保就是變相的老保 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2980.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
3004.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
那如果我們可以讓整個農民的退休包括漁民的退休制度是大於現在所謂在這些漁民他們在投保勞保的一個方向的話這樣的話會讓這些人回歸正常所以我們這是4比6沒有錯可是跟現在漁民在講的漁保還是有差距那我覺得說 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
3007.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3032.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
我們農業不管的就是農林漁牧啊那為什麼要把農跟漁做這樣的一個落差那這樣一個落差變成說讓這一些一樣他們是從事著我們的這個糧食生產的工作可是他們的保險卻有很大的不一樣然後兩邊的不同身份的人就會互相比較事實上這樣的比較對政府都是不方便而且很容易被造成批判就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3032.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3050.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
好像现在哪一个制度提高了然后另外一边的制度就说那我也要跟着提高这样对你们来说都是很辛苦所以我是觉得你们应该整体从农民荧幕的太阳然后好好去思考这件事情好 谢谢好 谢谢蔡宇委员我们现在请谢一封委员资讯讯的 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3052.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3078.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
其实我认为我们今天在讲这个是希望说能够增加它的这个覆盖率就是提高这个覆盖率那我不晓得而且就是说按照现在是就是说我觉得农业部都没有提出一个试算的这个就是试算表然后来告诉我们说这样子提拨然后最后农民可以拿到多少钱的 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3078.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3105.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
那還有就是在過往的就是說最近來講到底就是說這幾年來農業部對於推廣這個就是我們農民退休儲金到底推動的績效是如何的因為我們看到就是說我們一直希望說政府能提高給予農民的這樣子的就是退休儲金的那個的保障嘛那 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3106.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3122.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
但是好像目前农民端都没有就是说相关的反应以及相关的回馈那我们会认为说这样子今天在这里谈法条我们当然是说希望以提高就是政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3123.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3142.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
那个农业部的那个提拨来来增加这个覆盖率但是我觉得是不是农业部在这几天就是也是给我们一个试算的就是给委员会一个试算的表让我们了解说这个情况是如何的那我们比较清楚的知道说现在未来我们 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3143.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3164.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
如果不行的時候怎麼樣子再繼續的往前推動那我覺得這是比較重要的那也希望說最後我們這個農民退休儲金的通過能夠增加對於農民退休以後的保障那對整體的這個政策有幫助那這是我們希望的方向 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3167.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3188.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
那個部長我那天報告說你好像有一個試算你把它弄給大家看一下你有一個試算表對啊有他有個試算表有四位委員是不是要先回應還是全部結束沒有你先試算因為有東西就是先讓大家看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3196.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3205.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
對 你們準備一下那個試算表準備一下部長你先回應先回應那個 謝謝剛才那個四位委員包括那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3207.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3223.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
郭委員 蔡委員還有謝委員還有賴委員的一些提案那你等一下好了還有陳昌明委員要發言那個陳昌明委員謝謝主席我以為縣市長或許能講完了就要做結論報告報告部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3229.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3243.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
那個農民退休時期是照顧跟支持農民也是建立農民社會的安全網非常重要其實今天由立委提出來農民負擔事實政府負擔 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3245.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3259.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
60% 我覺得要像郭國文立委這樣所講 覆蓋力要提高 要快速的提高那我建議少買幾顆飛彈就有所以我建議是由農民負擔30%政府負擔70%少買幾顆就夠了考慮一下 考慮一下 多多照顧農民曾天才委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3272.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3280.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
這個覆蓋力很重要尤其是原住民的這個比例更低了更低所以在 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3283.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3301.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
除了今天等一下會有試算表之外怎麼樣能夠去解決這個覆蓋率能不能會後也提供相關的這些說明會比較下次在協商的時候會更明確以上謝謝好我們先宣讀一下附帶決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3305.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3325.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
附帶決議定案 針對農民退休儲金第七條修正有鑒於農業部所提版本為調整農民與主管機關共同提繳金額比例農民與主管機關按月共同提繳之總金額依每月最低工資乘以提繳比率之二倍計算農民負擔總金額40%主管機關負擔總金額60%然考量目前提繳農退人數高達94% |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3335.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3363.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
選擇提繳最高上限10%以及目前投入農退制度之農民及青農長期無法突破30%門檻請農業部於修法通過後農退覆蓋率以一年成長7%三年為21%為目標若兩年無法成長10%則檢討農退儲金制度並改以提高相對提撥為1比2為方向提案人賴瑞榮 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3364.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3385.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
蔡宇宇 陳亭飛 劉建國 郭國文 連署人謝一鳳 宣讀完畢好 我們把附帶決議一併納入討論那我們還有幾位委員還沒發因為大家方向其實都一致是不是有委員還在發言 易營或建國劉建國 然後再邱易營 劉建國 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3391.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3409.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
我接續 部長我接續剛剛蔡議員所講的我也講一個實際案例我昨天到雲林縣的口衛鄉就是就是海濱就對了要吃苦辣的 抹啊抹啊 昆油啊 凍 肥膳很多其實大家都很清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3411.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3435.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
這漁保其實就是勞保 並不是農保所以當時我們在疫情的時候有做這相關的補貼其實就分作兩個處理的方式農保的部分是農保的部分漁保的部分 其實我們講漁保實際上他是在講勞保的處理方式我是要跟部長講一個昨天晚上我們剛好有一個聚會那個聚會有差不多100多人 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3437.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3460.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
我用台語說的 我說現場有開始叫農民、土金的人請走一百多個沒有一個人舉手但我是必須跟部長很坦白講說一百多個當然年紀大的比例佔差不多七成那當然還有三、四十歲、五十來歲的應該差不多有兩成多 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3461.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3481.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
那我們上三個禮拜開始在講農民儲金新聞都有出來 黨團也有開記者會你看喔還有人到現在不曉得農民儲金是什麼也就是說他根本連起心動念要去了解 要去繳都沒有了 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3482.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3496.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
所以這個是蠻嚴重的問題啦那另外一個當然有另外一個因素就是因為他去補啊 他是留補啊所以他沒有這個資格嘛他不是留補的時候 他沒有這個資格當然他想要知道他也覺得沒必要啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3497.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3508.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
但是這樣就不對了這個事情應該是在在那個疫情的時候我們就已經開始做這個相關的分別的補貼的時候其實就有討論到漁民這一塊我們應該怎麼處理那時候我記得 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3513.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3532.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
我們農業部也有提出一些意見就是朝向簡單讓他一次化農林雲木農林雲木大家都要說但是這個國家辦的保險竟然就是不一樣當然我知道過去的歷史背景不過我們是在那一次的時候我們確實是有討論說要怎麼樣趨於一致 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3533.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3554.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
所以這個還是會牽涉到我們今天在退農民儲金遇到了這樣的一個瓶頸一個障礙所以這個給部長做一個思考謝謝我想我們是不是第一輪發言完先讓我們部長所有回應我們再進行第二輪我們請邱議員委員第一輪我們請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3557.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3573.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
我想謝謝剛才所有的委員的一些建議跟提議那我這邊分幾個部分來做說明就是我們要保障我們農民退休的部分大概分為兩個區塊一個就是農民退休儲金然後另外一個是 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3574.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3601.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
那么老农津贴一个是老农津贴一个是农民退休储金它是一个堆叠的部分那老农津贴这个部分包括额度包括牌付的部分其实我们都有在处理那因为在时间的关系就是还没有办法进到立法院来那这一块的部分当做一个基底然后退休储金的部分是从他开始从农的时候开始就做这样的一个设计去投保让他 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3602.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3622.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
農民退休以後我們試算的是他至少不會比老保的那個老年給付還低我們的絕對我想農民一定有尊嚴的不可能比農民還低這是我們的一個設計第一個原則那第二個部分就是回到這個退休儲金本身的一個設計來講那根據我們的所有的問卷那現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3626.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3647.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
這些特別是剛才郭國文委員的30%那是應該是青年農民的部分如果以整體來講把可以投保的人來當母宿的時候已經超過49%多快50%了是整體但是年輕人年輕人大概只有百分之二十幾到三十左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3648.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3667.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
那這個區塊我們在歷次的座談會裡面他們提到說當我30歲我不會太在意65歲以後領多少我現在在意的是我現在可不可以少繳一點所以因為這個關係所以我們在設計的時候就是用政府多負擔一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3668.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3694.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
然後農民少繳一點他的保障不變的一個前提之下那我基本上我也非常認同郭委員所提到的就是我們有一段時間去檢討這個覆蓋率如果拉高特別是年輕人覆蓋率拉高的時候那表示說我們這個部分是有意義的那另外我也要跟委員報告上次在專案報告的時候我也說明其實我要用另外一個方式去激勵他們的覆蓋率 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3695.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3702.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
就是只要你有投農民退休保險的話我的政府的相關的政策的補助我都加碼 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3703.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3732.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
那這個部分的加碼會遠比你每個月這個多少繳的部分還高一點那我希望用這兩個方式就是你退休儲金我讓你少繳然後第二個你只要保了這個農民退休儲金我的所有的政策的加碼這個加碼下去可能都是5%至少5%左右這是第一個我想特別是剛才郭委員所提到的那另外剛剛包括蔡委員提到的包括那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3734.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3737.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
劉委員提到的還有謝一芳委員提到的就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3738.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3764.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
有一部分的人農民分農民跟漁民的部分那漁民在過去的設計都是勞保或是甲類會員就是無一定雇主的部分那其實我們也考慮到這一塊但是因為時間上在送進行政院的時候比較慢的時候那如果說再退回來再重新審查會變得很慢所以我也非常認同委員所提到的就是想辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3765.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3794.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
把這些曾經是保勞保的無一定雇主的就是我們的漁業的部分我們能夠把他納入我把它稱為斜槓人生就是他雖然繳勞保但是他實際從事農業的行為就像漁業他實際從事農業的行為的話我們也認同委員所提的版本就是也開放讓他加入退休儲金那他未來就怎樣他的 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3795.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3823.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
老保的部分就是老年給付但是他的退休儲金就是農民的退休儲金那這樣子的話跟我們現在目前的那個農糧的部分是保障是一樣的所以我想雖然說我們的行政院版本沒有這個版本但是我們絕對以農業部的立場我們絕對支持這樣的一個版本這是一個部分那剛才第三個謝委員特別提到的那個績效的部分我想我們等一下會 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3824.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3851.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
會有提到還有一個試算的部分我這邊先稍微說明一下如果經過試試算的部分我們現在的版本是如果說是2950那如果是以政府的版本是變成他掃腳就變成2360那如果是以4比6的版本的時候那就是我看4比6版本就23602360那以郭委員的版本因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3853.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3879.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
那個除了4比6以外最後的那個天空板也打開嘛那那個部分他領的錢會更多啦最後領的錢會更多那我是不是可以請求委員就是我們先處理這個4比6然後再配合處理農民老農津貼那未來三年以後如果說覺得這個部分包括當時的狀況的時候是不是打開天空板那時候再來處理那我想我們會尊重委員的一些意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3881.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3887.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
好 謝謝部長等一下 二次發言先舉手是郭國文委員再來楊瓊英委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3889.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3915.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
謝謝部長剛剛的回應我有幾點第一點就是說剛剛所謂的擴大被保險人的投保這我基本上我也表示認同因為不管是議議委員剛剛提到的或者是建國委員說提到的把漁民納保還有把一些無一定僱主職業公會的投保人有實際農作的還有一種你不要忘記還有一種是國保 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3916.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3937.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
他即便是國保有實際農作也應該還有一次是軍人退休之後他沒有請領其他的退休給付的一個軍人退職之後實際從事這個農作的這也應該納入啦也就是說把這一個被保險人多元化來提高另外一種覆蓋率的可能這是政策上應該去思考的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3938.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3955.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
那第二個你剛剛提到說你會用其他的制度的誘因是在農民津貼的部分這個你如果有的話我建議說你把這一個辦法把它明確化你要怎麼樣會多增加這個誘因這個才有說服力 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3955.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3974.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
第三 你剛剛提到就是說你如果把這個所謂的1比1.5倍的部分在天花板沒有變的情況底下降低它所謂的給付是你們田野調查或民調的結果好 這個我尊重可是當你們訂這個的時候你們有沒有去推估說那我的涵蓋率會多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3975.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3995.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
涵蓋率剛剛本席所提的這個部分的30%當中大部分的人提撥 足足而提撥的就是說10%的是高了4%的人提撥10%就是超過9成的人根本不在乎不在乎你這一個所謂的提撥的金額 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3995.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4023.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
所以你提破經的降低的情況底下本席就有一點質疑你為什麼降這邊你沒有提高這邊所以本席的質疑是有他的道理的存在所以你這個部分有沒有可能你做一個政策推估你這個有辦法你要有自信你既然是做這樣的決定你要有自信要講出來對不對否則的話你就真的要明確的去思考滾動式的檢討是不是應該把天花板提高這是本席的一個主要的一個看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4024.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4049.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
我們請楊瓊英委員質詢謝謝 我想我們的目標都一致要怎麼樣幫助農民 覆蓋率要高那剛剛部長所談到的兩件重點第一個 你的誘因 照目前為止我們所討論聽到的你認就希望 4比6的一個比例 這一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4050.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4073.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
但是我們也希望能夠再高所以你的方式是希望有其他的誘因甚至你剛才說在各項的補助協助方面只要你納保進來那你就有這個優先權在整個補助您剛才籠統的是說各項的補助大概會到5%以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4074.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4092.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
各項的補助到底是什麼現在我們都不知道所以你要趁這個時間到時候我們併案協商的時候要把它表格化出來讓大家都能夠更清楚那也的確現在目前台灣有很多第二村的工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4093.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4108.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
甚至有很多他財經類的可是他就是很喜歡來做我們的農作回到家鄉來做農作這是很快樂的一件事情這也是我們希望更多人加入我們的農作很重要的一環 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4109.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4138.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
我想這一點很重要這些人要怎麼樣讓他也能夠加入我們的這個農作的團隊裡頭讓他們在各項的納保或者是補助方案能夠讓他們有所誘因而且願意來參與來落實這個就是我們今天所討論的這個法案最重要的一環我也希望在並案協商的時候將大家所提供的意見本席所提供的意見能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4139.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4154.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
比較明確式的來說明這樣子才能夠達到各方所討論的法案的一個最後凝聚力的一個有效能的法案產生本席具體要求 具體建議 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4156.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4171.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
謝謝楊瓊委員我想跟部長提示一下因為在5到18案現在立法院院會裡面還沒有這個通過夫妻期的部分其中其實最重要的就是我們能夠把 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4172.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4192.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
我們這個資格的問題也就是他本身有軍保有勞保有工保如果在這當中他轉換在短期進入到我們這個農民的生活的當中那他在從事農業工作那這個部分是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4193.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4219.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
能够在还没有保农保的时候也可以享受到我们的一个农民这个退休处境的部分大概很多的这个提案都在5到18岁是在针对资格的部分这也是另外一个游营也就是现在我们了解很多青农他本身前面可能他有老保的资格那你叫他 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4220.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4244.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
去為了保農保要加入農退然後去放棄勞保他不可能所以我們現在這個重點是讓他有選擇也就是說當他勞保的時候他如果進入到農民生活農業生活他是可以選擇不用保農保就可以保農退 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4245.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4271.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
这个也是很重要的一个诱因这是在我们5到18案里面很多的委员都有提案的部分所以这个也是很重要所以比如说刚刚很多委员所说的你的诱因在哪里你要把它调列示出来我鼓励你来保农退那我有什么诱因相对的诱因在哪里希望调列示出来我们请刘建国委员 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4274.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4292.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
那一天在巡討的時候部長特別提到了就剛剛楊委員所講的黑5%黑5%是什麼 不會低於5%只要你加入農民儲金我們相關的這些支持配套就不會低於5%那講得很廣泛 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4292.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4308.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
但是完全很難聚焦到底是哪幾項你只要加入農民儲金我農業部就支持你然後相關的補助就不會低於5%這個到現在沒有明確化這第一點那第二點剛剛郭公園所講的我其實心裡也有這樣感受因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4309.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4328.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
因為我們日本人說明按照統一大公佈的基本工資的十分之一你只要繳這個十分之一現在是兩萬八千九百五千嘛二百五九啦五百九十塊啦所以現在有教育的人是自己繳到前鋒啦嘛二百五九嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4329.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4341.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
沒有一個要繳兩千塊的他連美索也要繳到九千塊所以他嫁給那些人他們說他不去查一件事我不是去提倡人你們是要給嫁給賣的人檢一件事我們就不給負擔一件事嘛要用這樣做誘因給附近的人提款嘛但是我在主張我是希望活動民負擔35%都要補負擔65% |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4356.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4376.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
這咱來對照其他政府收盤的保險來說也是其他有志啊這樣是不是才可以加強誘因當然國安委員他是希望說農業部從前面來從前段來思考那後端未來的這樣的可以領到的保障也要一併來做調整這也是絕對一條正確的處理的方向了 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4377.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4397.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
那我這邊是強調說那我依照農業部的思考裡面讓加入農民的可以減少一成的這樣的負擔農業部來多增加一成來做這樣的支持那為什麼這比例比例是算10%比例所有算一成為什麼它不是更多一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4399.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4410.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
因為就誠如剛剛郭委員所講的你們提供出來的數據現在有你叫的其實他們都叫我前鋒對不對都是按照阿美尼多病2萬95我相信有你叫的人他就叫2950看我 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4415.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4442.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
所以可以叫人 根本他不會說那個差幾百塊對他來說不是嘛 他也認同嘛所以我是希望說真的今天要擴大這個覆蓋率那最後剛剛趙偉特別強調其實那個退伍軍人只要他退完之後他沒有領什麼那個退休奉啦 月退奉來講而且他有持續的從事農務工作這我們都要勾勒他 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4444.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4453.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
這都來過了二百啊這我們有在修正條文的第三條之一啦當然還有很多條文不過這次就是沒辦法見到一併討論嘛謝謝謝謝我們謝一鋒委員然後再來蔡議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4462.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4478.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
我認為就是我們剛才已經討論很多那當然從部長已經回覆的部分就是對於你們對農民的就是一些調查所呈現的是他們希望說現在少繳一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4479.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4497.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
那这个部分那当然有很多委员认为说是不是因为就是未来的这个试算的结果那到底领的时候能不能提高还有就是相关的我们未来可以加保的 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4497.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4525.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
各類的這個可是我也認為說我們是不是應該也要跟其他的保險做一個相對的比較那我們才能了解說怎麼樣子提高這個就是農退的相關的這個覆蓋率嗎那我覺得這個部分是不是在下一次協商前我們都會有一個初步的相關的那個報告那我們大概比較好能夠就是說下一次法條的討論的時候能夠進入比較實質的協商好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4528.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4555.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
謝謝 我們請蔡議員我這也是要符合一個建國剛才說的例子因為事實上我最近在海口的照很多漁民是在跟我反映說最近好像老農津貼是不是有在討論要提高那這一些老漁民就是在84年之後才退休的漁民就說我們都沒有老農津貼可以領 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4556.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4577.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
一直叫做老余津貼啦他們就是說因為這個是有一個落差那我就反問他一句話說那我問你喔這樣你會想要把你的肥寶變成這個農民退休租金嗎他沒辦法他說他也是沒辦法我就說對啊所以這樣你就知道基本上漁保還是比農保好啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4578.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4601.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
所以他们心里很清楚只是他们看到别的制度在调整的时候他们心里会有这个觉得相对剥夺感可是他还是知道余宝比农保好那我要跟农业部呼吁的就是说那余宝比农保好他除了说他的退休制度是比照老保之外他还有政府的提拨跟他的负担额就是2比8 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4602.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4630.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
所以我们在整个制度思考的时候我希望农业部你们应该还是要站在怎样去整病让这一些属于农业部应该要纳管的这一些农林渔牧这一些人民让他们可以在同样一个保险同样一个退休制度享受同样的福利而不是说让他们在很多这个退休保险的选择上他们在那边逼狗 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4630.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4658.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
一有比較基本上對政府都不是好事所以我還是在呼籲然後剛剛有講的事實上包括這些軍人退休一次退那甚至也有陸續有聽到一些勞工他當年是領一次退的他在一次退之後他現在是沒有辦法有任何保險縱使他從事農業他還是沒辦法進入這個農業的這個投保事實上我覺得農業部還是把這整塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4659.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4684.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
都來思考一下是比較的妥善來 二次發言還有沒有我們的委員我想我先來做以下的一個宣告就是說因為我們的5案至18案目前還在復一期所以我們要在12月30號才會通過復一期 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4685.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4712.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
我們在這一次我們就把所有的案子將第7條還有附帶決議保留送黨團協商然後5案至18案我們並案一起協商那我們預定在1月2號早上9點進行協商我為什麼會先定時間因為剛剛有委員有要求我們要把相關的 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4713.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4732.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
这些所谓诱因把它调列示出来然后包括这个天花板这个天花板也就是农业部一直强调的天花板那目前所有的农民来处理这个农退的部分他们几乎都已经保到最高了 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4733.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4745.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
那当天外版没打开他们的退休保障会在哪里所以我觉得这个都是希望你们把所有你们现在了解的田园调查的资料 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4746.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4775.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
能够很清楚在1月2号我们协商的时候把它调列式出来然后方便我们整个协商的进行所以我们的目标就是要增加覆盖率这个目标很清楚保障农民的生活又可以增加覆盖率这是我们的目标所以我们今天的这个会议结论就这样子好来邱颖委员 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4778.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4803.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
主席不好意思這個謝謝您剛剛的裁示但我想請教一下在程序上面我們現在就今天的案子是保留要等待這個5到18案送進來之後就一起併案所以很顯然看得出來12月31號以前是來不及完成所有的協商程序那如果程序上是這樣的話明年1月沒有辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4805.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4827.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
明年1月沒有辦法開始執行新的所謂的農退儲金制度嗎原來我想行政院的就是我們到時候我們最後結論的時候我們說追溯沒有提最後一條這個是我才要請教的這個程序上面的問題因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4829.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4850.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
我們到時候協商結論可以做結論就是說我們是不是回溯到這個從1月1號開始所以主席這個是我的主張我希望如果今年的12月31號以前來不及完成的話在我們到最後的協商的時候我們希望能夠附帶一個回溯條款能夠回溯到 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4851.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4865.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
從明年的1月1號開始起算因為我跟委員報告因為在條例裡面的第33條裡面本條例實行日期由行政院定之所以後面就由行政院這邊來定就可以了 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4868.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4890.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
我們就是用今天我們會做我們就是到時候我們在協商1月2號協商的時候我們今天整個案子都會出委員會送協商然後之後5案到18案一起並進來之後1月2號進行協商然後我們在協商的時候我們因為第33條30幾條 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4895.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4914.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
33條本條例實行日期由行政院定之33條實行的部分是由這日期是由行政院農業部行政院定之所以在我們所有委員的要求之下我們希望在我們1月2號通過協商然後可以回溯從1月1號開始這樣有沒有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4921.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4932.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
我们就协商的时候做结论我们就协商的时候做结论只是说我今天跟我们所有的委员会做这样的报告那我们请宣读协商结论 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4934.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4951.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
宣讀協商結論第二條 照委員蔡宜等20人 委員陳景飛等19人提案通過第七條委員謝一鳳等16人提案等4案委員楊瓊英等3人所提修正動議及附帶決議項均保留送黨團協商 宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4955.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4982.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
請問我們委員 各位同仁 照我們剛剛宣讀的協商結論通過 請問有無異議主席 我確認一下好不好 那個本席的提案有沒有在裡頭附帶決議還有呢 之前我有提案有啊 全部啊都有嘛 全部都有啊沒有 他就是等試案對 等試案那我們剛剛有沒有異議 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4984.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4996.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
那討論事項所列第一案至第四案即修正動議及附帶決議並按審查完略你停報審查報告提報院會討論你這要送黨團協商你這要不要送黨團協商 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5003.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5018.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
那我們需交由黨團協商那院會討論的時候有本席說明那審查通過的條文相關法制用與授權主席及議事人員整理那本日議程處理完畢謝謝大家現在散會 |