| IVOD_ID |
17138 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17138 |
| 日期 |
2025-12-19 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-130-30-6 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第130屆經費稽核委員會第6次會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
0 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
6 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
30 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經費稽核委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第130屆經費稽核委員會第6次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-12-19T11:40:10+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-12-19T12:54:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
01:13:50 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/b73ade72829c64edc7906a4f3a94a5fe3bf5fe2dc111e212d5e67b2ed51623759c4cdb38efa72d155ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-12-19T12:10:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第130屆經費稽核委員會第6次會議（事由：一、宣讀上次會議議事錄
二、報告本院114年度預算執行情形（截至114年11月止）） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:40:10 - 12:54:00 |
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MING PAO CANADA MANGA |
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237.572 |
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237.986 |
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由 Amara.org 社群提供的字幕 |
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404.063 |
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404.426 |
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由 Amara.org 社群提供的字幕 |
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727.745 |
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728.108 |
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由 Amara.org 社群提供的字幕 |
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900.995 |
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901.076 |
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谢谢大家 |
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932.835 |
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933.266 |
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由 Amara.org 社群提供的字幕 |
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1460.328 |
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1460.409 |
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谢谢大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1533.345 |
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1533.869 |
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由 Amara.org 社群提供的字幕 |
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1863.919 |
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1888.758 |
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報告委員會出席委員已足法定人數好 我們現在正式開會現在介紹在場委員陳培宇陳委員萬老師 郭益勤 郭委員還有林烈勤 林委員還有千吉委員跟余真委員 OK好 來 我們先讀上次的 |
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1892.009 |
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1897.713 |
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我介紹一下我們這期的官員周恩來周秘書長張玉榮張副秘還有秉潔處長林承熙林處長還有百祥處長 |
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1922.091 |
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1949.109 |
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還有公報處的蘇顯興 蘇處長中部處的廖炯志 炯志處長資訊處 政處長 輝斌還有法治局的郭明正 郭局長預算中心陳主任 陳一清國會圖書館的梁文華 梁館長中南部中心的邱主任 邱靖榮 |
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1951.411 |
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1965.148 |
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還有義政博物館 許館長 許先卿人事處 黃瑞月 黃處長主計處 許處長 許靜江好來 我們來先讀上次的意思錄 |
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1966.926 |
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1987.334 |
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立法院第130屆經費集合委員會第5次會議議事錄時間114年11月21日星期五中午12時10分至12時49分地點本院群閑樓101會議室出席委員葛如君等7人請教委員張祺凱委員等2人列席人員張副秘書長等14人 |
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1987.854 |
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2010.752 |
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主席李月琴委員 紀錄黃秋艷一 報告事項 宣讀上次會議議事錄 決定議事錄確定二 本院114年預算執行情形報告截至114年10月止 決定准與被查二 臨時動議一 陳培宇委員提 本院現有EAP方案 尚有許多人不知曉 請加強宣導 另請研議增加 |
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2011.272 |
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2031.505 |
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EAP方案運用彈性的可行性例如參考衛福部15至45歲青壯世代心理健康支持方案的做法由需求者自行選擇合適機構做完諮商服務後再依程序請款及增加免費心理諮商的次數等決議請人事處研議 |
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2033.686 |
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2051.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
二 賴會員委員提 由於中心大樓一樓車道貨車出入頻繁 造成公務車輛停車困難令當會議場次較多時 濟南路兩側常有大量車輛違規停車導致交通擁捨 請協助改善 決議請總務處警衛隊協助導引指揮並洽中正一分局處理 二 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2057.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2084.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
整修單會館的空間過於狹窄不符住宿委員的需求原有關臺北會館的整修應請先調查徵詢住宿委員對空間使用需求的意見後再做進一步整修規劃決議請總務處徵詢住宿委員意見後提出說明 宣讀完畢好 請問有沒有錯誤或者遺漏的地方沒有 那我們就意思就確定 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2087.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2116.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
好那接下來我們請主計處的許處長報告主席各位委員大家好以下緊究立法院114年度截至11月份預算執行情形報告本院為國家最高立法機關為持續推展業務各項經費收支均依實際需要按相關規定核實辦理以有效支援委員議案審查工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2116.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2140.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
有关114年度截至11月份指预算执行清新请详附表1概况表附表2明细表仅就税务类经费类项目重点内容说明如后1税务类114年度税务类预算共编列1044万9千元截至11月份指累计分配数976万5千元累计实收数100 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2142.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2156.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
1171万7000元包括罚款及赔偿收入129万元财产收入882万元及其他收入160万7000元二经费类114年度经费类及区分一般行政 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2157.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2177.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
委员问证业务等9个业务计划共编列预算37亿2436万2000元含追加预算截至11月份只累计分配数33亿2335万8000元累计实质数30亿5536万3000元执行率91.94%主要区分下列三大项目 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2178.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2191.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
一 委員問政專項經費 本項目包括委員稅費及公費 公費助理 文匯交流事務 委員會館問政相關業務及黨團補助等六個工作計畫項目共編列委員問政及選民服務等相關經費14億9000 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2195.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2219.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
604万元截至10月份之累计分配数13亿9926万5000元累计实质数13亿1809万8000元执行率94.2%主要包括委员税工费及选民服务费工费助理筹经济加班费等人事费11亿4991万4000元委员研究室住宿会馆水电通讯费团体保险 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2220.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2245.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
办公事务费 交通费及国会交流等业务费1亿5576万4千元党团补助费1242万元二 议事行政支援经费本项目包括一般行政 议事业务 立法咨询业务国会图书业务 公报业务及地域背景等6个工作计划项目共编列 议事行政支援及职工人员维持等相关经费212700 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2248.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2271.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
2712万4000元截至10月份之累计分配数17亿9494万5000元累计实质数16亿6243万3000元执行率92.62%主要包括职工信奉保险及退休儲金等人事费12亿2497万4000元运区水电通讯费资讯服务费 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2272.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2275.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
辦公房設計、公務車輛養護、國會頻道委託轉播等業務費4億455萬元圖書資料庫購置等設備費3104萬2千元退休職工三節慰問金及年節特別照顧金等獎補助費 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2288.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2308.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
186萬7千元三一般建築及設備經費本項目包括營建工程交通警預輸設備及其他設備等三個工作計畫項目共編列2億119萬8千元包括本院委員住宿匯款整修周邊環境空間安全優化委員公用車輛汰換 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2309.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2321.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
各項資訊應用系統開發及軟硬體設備構置汰換數位影音儲存資料庫及數位印刷機等案截至11月份止累計分配數1億2914萬8千元累計實質數7483萬2千元執行率57.94% |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2329.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2345.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
主要系立法院委員住宿會館準修工程案 檔案會館部分已完成驗收 課證辦理後續相關請款作業另 立法院周邊環境空間安全優化工程歷經兩次招標 佔5場商投標 致影響預算執行進度 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2346.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2369.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
三 結餘 以上系本院114年度截至11月份止之預算執行情形均依業務實際需要及規定程序本準決原則 核實檢討辦理整體預算執行上稱正常僅就重點內容二要報告 敬請指教 謝謝好 大家對於那個許處長的報告有沒有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2372.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2384.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
沒有好那我們就決定立法院114年度截至11月份指的這個預算執行情形報告準以被查我們現在歡迎賴慧妍賴慧妍到現場臨時動議好請問有沒有臨時動議培語 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2399.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2420.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
好 謝謝主席有一個臨時動議但是我也不確定要請哪一位處理所以也許待會可以請主席跟周萬來秘書長告訴我們可以怎麼做我們對於那個陳玉珍委員提案關於助理費的部分本黨的委員感到非常擔心我們真的很擔心 真的真的很擔心如果三讀通過之後所有的立法委員都會變成千萬年薪 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2421.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2441.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
可是其實在公聽會上翁曉琳委員在司法法制召開公聽會有學者專家提出當然是大大不可行可是假設三讀通過之後會有稅捐的問題還有勞健保單位成立的問題因為現在所有的助理的勞健保都是立法院這邊協助然後所以我剛說了還有委員個人 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2442.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2469.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
稅的問題而這些事情如果陳玉珍委員的提案他的提案說明裡面有80%跟法治局郭明正局長您當第一人稱第一作者掛的這個報告有八成是相似的那我們就很好奇法治局難道對後續真的這個立法三讀通過之後你們也有相關的研議跟討論了嗎我認為邪惡的提案在先至所有立法委員不亦在後 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2472.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2484.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
所以我希望周旺南秘書長或者是相關的單位可以告訴我們或者是你們還要再回去做一份報告告訴我們假設三度通過之後相關這個事情會發生什麼樣悲慘的下場好 以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2492.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2510.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
包括這個委員會委員大概有關於這個應該不是在這個會裡面在談這件事至於說行政事務本身是配合這個法的規範委員都有提案權委員怎麼規範行政幕僚是配合去處理以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2512.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2539.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
秘書長那我有一個問題那為什麼去年的3月相關的經費集合委員會卻可以提出要求法治局做相關助理費的研究可是我現在的提案其實是搭配著法治局因為給了那個報告之後所產生的陳玉珍委員的提案那我覺得還是有疑義啊那為什麼我不可以在這裡提出但是為什麼陳玉珍跟翁小玲對於助理費的疑義就可以在這裡提出而我陳佩瑜對於助理費的疑義卻不可以在這裡提出 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2543.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2557.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
因為當時的一位翁委員希望有知道這個助理的這個因為法治局在去研議嘛那法治局研議當然他有一個評估報告是每一個委員手中都有啦但是我所了解是因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2558.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2573.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
华字局的它的职长本身就是做演绎对于法案的评估和演绎也不是说因为欧委员是要他当时华字局所演绎的资料当然他就提供给他但是华字局没有权利去决定任何的一个件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2574.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2598.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
好很好謝謝秘書長的說明那我是不是就積極的建議那我就要求法治局去做相關的規劃跟討論一樣做成一個法案的研究報告假設三讀通過之後這件事情會發生什麼樣的狀況因為法治局本來就會針對很多的法案三讀通過或者之前給出相關的建議那我想本黨針對我或者我陳培瑜個人抱歉我不用代表民進黨 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2598.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2604.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
我這邊一個人對於相關法案的研究我也要提出一份相關的研究報告要拜託秘書長同意 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2608.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2629.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
抱歉我不知道陳委員所提的是什麼意思因為你要研究報告本身法治局它的職長是對於一個議案的去做研究它本身現在都有報告在你們手中它的研議意見都有在你們手中所以你至於說委員去做提案到院會去通過刪讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2630.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2649.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
怎麼規定比如舉個例子講我那時候我是在考試委員嘛我不在這邊嘛裡面那個立委主持我通過了健康檢查文康活動當然他們配合院方一定會配合委員會通過院會通過三途通過的法案的結果當然 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2650.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2673.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
幕僚必須要配合去做處理吧我沒有要對於幕僚的行政工作或相關業務做出指指點點我們絕對尊重所有行政上的專業那我是不是就可以提案關於陳育貞委員目前的這個提案請法治局做出相關的研議跟相關配套的建議 以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2674.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2682.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
抱歉 這應該是分兩部分上次我看這個提案翁小玲他們提案因為法治局本身有一份報告 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2684.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2707.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
這是第一個案這是一部分那第二個現在裴宇文在這講的是另外一個他是針對高院說拿了這個他是高院來要的嘛你看你心虛了我根本從頭到尾沒有講到高院張其凱幹嘛心虛我從頭到尾沒有講到高院兩個字請你收回我從頭到尾沒有講到高院請你收回你要的已經是另外一個案子了 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2707.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2736.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
我再講的是你注意聽我剛剛在講的是針對陳玉珍委員的提案請法治局做出相關的配套研究然後交出一份報告我剛剛每一次的發言從頭到尾都沒有講出高院兩個字如果張其凱委員這麼心虛那我們就來好好問一問立法院跟高院之間回覆來的公文到底有沒有保密到底有沒有過早的不當的 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2737.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2751.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
如果要另外的你要到院會去提案經濟集體和委員會就是上次的提案就是法治局委員報告嘛那已經送上了我現在跟你講這個已經在公告在網路上網站上面都有我現在提案很清楚請注意聽我再說一次喔也請會議記錄寫清楚我的建議就是請針對陳玉珍委員修法提出立法院組織法第32條 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2761.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2789.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
第三十三條 第三十五條條文的修正草案請法治局作出相關配套的研究以免限所有立法委員於不義因為會有稅捐的問題會有勞健保歸戶的問題而這些問題在司法法治翁曉琳委員主持的公聽會上已經有專家學者指出來以上我的題目非常的清楚 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2790.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2796.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
可以 我們就依法行政照制度妳要的那個是立法那個不在經濟集合委員會的範圍嘛妳去看陳玉珍跟翁小玲的提案為什麼可以被通過是在2024年10月8號 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2807.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2825.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
立法院第129屆經費集合委員會第三次會議記錄裡面看到翁小玲跟陳玉珍問了關於助理費使用的問題所以就做成了決議要法治局做報告而我現在沒有要推翻法治局的報告我就只是要求我再說一次針對2025年12月3號 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2828.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2843.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
國民黨陳玉珍委員提出立法院組織法第32條 第33條 第35條條文修正草案請法治局作出假設三讀通過後相關配套的研究報告以上 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2848.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2865.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
有個問題我想請教一下請問在立法院是所有委員因為剛剛莊萬蘭秘書長是先回應我說還沒有過那我就說我看了去年的這個法制去年的經費計衡委員會上翁曉琳委員跟陳玉珍委員的問法 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2865.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2888.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
其實根本就是白問因為只要他現在乖乖的守法所有的報帳他都不會犯錯他不會犯罪但是他可能他自己的心證他對於相關助理費的使用他覺得他已經踩在這個法律的紅線上所以他要求做出這個報告那我現在的狀態也是一樣的我說我的擔心是所有公聽會上學者專家提出關於稅捐的問題關於勞健保歸戶的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2891.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2912.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
這些都很有可能讓我們現場每一個立法委員變成年收千萬請問你的所得就要報千萬嗎但是明明你的薪水是要撥出去給助理的喔這個是陳昱曾委員的寫法那既然他們當時對於當時的助理費使用有所疑議他們希望法治局提出研究報告那為什麼我現在不能針對這個版本先提出我的疑問謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2917.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
2923.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
既然那个陈伟一直要讲我就把整个故事讲给各位听好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
2923.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
2950.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
議事錄像寫得很清楚了不勞煩秘書長再幫我們念一次所有的委員的提案從第四屆開始因為周清義委員他有一個委員提案曾經法治局有業研究員幫他做研議研議以後就發生很大的爭議所以法治局到目前所有的委員提案他並不做評估報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
2952.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
2975.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
這次我真的把各位說清楚至於說報稅不報稅這個在助理的過程當中啊本來在74年就是一萬五千塊在中間過程的時候為什麼在陳水扁委員在81年的時候改成4年以上啊農產稅是3萬然後後來又在寬季年度後來又改到四四六年 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
2976.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
2984.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
那46年的時候是劉光華委員就為了委員的這個報稅他在他手中所以他後來改成整個就轉到給 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
2988.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3006.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
這些助理是直接就轉到助理手中所以嗎 你看我的擔心跟那些委員是一樣的啊不是 你聽我講 你聽我講過程嘛所以這一個對於助理這個過程裡面就後來就轉嫁變成六到十個人六到十個人的時候就整個就是由這一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3009.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3033.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
因為你要你整個 既然你質疑我這整個過程我當然要讓你 不 你聽我講我是提出請求 我不敢質疑秘書長因為秘書長拒絕我提出的請求我不是請求 我是跟你報告說這個不在這個委員會那你反對嘛 你不堅持我所說的說明所以不得不我把整個過程讓你理解經衛紀委員是做什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3035.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3056.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
就是經費經費委員裡面他有他的職長的啦所以這個過程當中就是會有這樣裡面才有這個轉成到這邊來那無法再修的時候就改成6到1096年改成8到14那這裡面都完全這個助理的費用就轉到就整個就暴漲在裡面來所以最你聽我報告好整個結束好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3057.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3081.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
所以至於將來要怎麼去處理行政單位只能配合你法修的通過以後怎麼樣我再幫你去進行研究研議這是很正常的一個狀況我怎麼會去火車局跟你就一個而且我剛剛已經報告過所有委員都是提案包括陳律師的提案他也沒有做研究報告所以請教就為了在第四屆開始已經進入這個情況以上報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3082.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3103.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
抱歉抱歉那個與正在講之前我先做個小的那個第一個剛剛民進黨講得很清楚經濟集合委員的職長裡面沒有剛剛講的你要去法治局去做這個研究沒有的包括陳立政當初提的也沒有如果要解決這個問題那個顯然配議委員你可以到院會去提案啦不要搞錯地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3103.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3115.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
所以主席是不是針對這個部分既然不屬於經費集合委員會那我要抗議沒關係主席我把最後結論講完請放入正式會議主席既然這個議題不是屬於經費集合委員會是不是討論就到此為止要不然大家其實都有很多的事情希望能夠盡快的那我抗議來主席我最後結論表達抗議 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3129.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3150.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
一樣是因為對於助理費的使用有所擔心有所疑慮所以我陳培瑜提出相關的請求跟建議要求法治局針對陳育貞委員立法院組織法的修法可以先提出相關的建議報告但很可惜我正式的被秘書長還有主席拒絕甚至用雙標的答案說這不屬於經費集合委員會的職責那我就問那為什麼去年陳育貞跟翁曉琳的提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3158.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3172.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
卻可以變成經費集合委員會的結論然後要求法治局去做一份報告甚至這份報告我要再說是史無前例的由法治局局長您自己的名字掛在第一作者我要提出正式的抗議 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3176.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3189.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
請那個郭局長把那一個當時這個報告的過程讓陳委員理解啦因為這個有點扭曲到法制局所做的這一個報告的過程所以我請郭局長說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3190.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3212.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
秘書長自己扛不要讓底下的公務人員幫你扛他那天在我質詢他的時候他都已經說了他心裡話也認為我們本來就應該要對助理比現在的狀況還要更好我就說你們自己身為主管秘書長你是被韓國瑜直接點名來當秘書長的你有擔當你自己扛你敢叫他做報告你自己扛你不要把他推上第一線火線戰場 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3214.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3220.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
等一下等一下陳委員大概對我相當大的誤解 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3221.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3245.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
所以我在我感到相當大的委屈因為你用雙標對我的請求提出拒絕從來法治局跟預算中心我在民國75年出國回來以後所有的法治局跟預算中心的這個連結我都鼓勵他們比照美國的CIS跟CBO所以所有委員法治局的 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3247.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3272.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
預算中心所有評估號我完全只簽個名字我從來不會琢磨到他面臨的內容包括我在當副秘書長到現在的秘書長從來我不會去改他把他改了一個字就我的幕僚大概我都是在這邊全部我沒有改過一個字就我跟你報告過怎麼會讓他跟我背過照我可以讓 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3274.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3299.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
那個很謝謝委員對我的那個不用不用那個主席我尊重我對於第一線公務人員感到心疼局長我那天已經問過你了我不需要聽你的說明我沒有任何委屈我真的沒有任何委屈但我沒有要收回我的請求我們就到這邊謝謝那你要讓我現在大家容請郭局長報告你那個口罩給他拿起來或者大聲一點好不好好好好我說明一下針對剛剛陳偉宇委員的提問有關翁小林委員在 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3300.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3320.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
我這邊的資料是在 最早是在10月20號經費基金委員會的記錄然後再過來是11月1號都陸陸續續有委員來做一個有關工會助理他們的分配私底下也有很多部分藍綠委員都會說希望工會助理可以談 希望可以請派代 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3322.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3337.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
我們這個報告不是針對經費居然委員會的任何的居然委員會是今年的3月份的時候因為全國縣市各縣市的議長他各縣市議長他要求來拜會我們院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3338.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3360.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
那我們院長就是因為要接待全國各縣人 他要來談助理會我們院長就說 那我們是不是針對各縣市議長所提問的 我們做一個專題報告那要我做這個會議上的簡報的人那院長跟全國二三個縣市議會都有來那我 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3361.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3384.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
我當做一個檢報人 這個專題報告不是我具名的 那要誰來具名它的最主要原因是全國23個縣市議員議長要來我們立法院來拜會我們院長那我要跟全國 之後我們 我做完檢報之後我還有花寒把我這個 我這一篇的專題研究函送給全國23個縣市議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3386.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3413.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
他來一種期盼為什麼一直在質疑我的具名因為我們院長要叫我做一個報告人所有的我想在座的委員你有做過協助院當你做一個報告人不是你具名難道要請誰來具名所以委員一直都有一個誤會我想在這個場子我想謝謝趙委員給我一個承認我真的沒有我怎麼會知道說這個三月份報告會引起這麼大的 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3415.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3437.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
因為當時是院長要接待二三個縣市會議長那要我做一個針對二三個縣市會議長大家都是議長層級我法制局長出面來做一個簡報那這個報告裡面我不進那我請請問各位誰要來進那之後一直在來說從來沒有這個報告那個這個到底是怎麼回事我也不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3440.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3466.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
謝謝法治局局長 郭局長的說明喔真理越辯越明為什麼我會說是經費集合委員會因為這件事情根本我也不知道是翁小玲自己在公聽會上啊回應我的發言她說是她在經費集合委員上提出建議然後要求法治局這是翁小玲在司法法治的公聽會有直播你去找所以原來啊 冤有頭債有主我就找到了經費集合委員會但非常感謝局長你話越說越明 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3467.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3475.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
原來還要搭配所有的議長來拜訪韓國瑜院長韓國瑜院長直接下達這個命令叫你做這份報告這樣清楚了 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3476.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3482.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
我收到這個結論我沒有滿意這個結論而且我還是要提出抗議但我想這個議題我就不耽誤時間討論到這邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3506.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3525.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
你先問 等一下局長講的兩個重點非常重要不是因為某一個委員所以提的罷這是第一個 第二個更重要我們在經濟基金委員會開會不要跑錯地方好不好我們執掌那麼清楚根本就不這個案子你要到立法院議員會去談 去提這不是經濟基金委員會執掌的前線 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3526.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3555.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
所以這個題目是不是應該停下來了我補充一句好不好我補充一句喔因為我手上有立法院的公報第113卷第86期委員會的報告其實就是陳玉珍委員翁曉琳委員在集合委員會上面的對話紀錄如果等一下我不浪費時間在這邊念如果等一下大家對於這個所有的剛剛裴宇所提出來的有任何的疑問歡迎來我這邊我可以印給大家看好 以上好 主持 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3556.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3576.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
那個我在這裡還是提醒那個我們法治局那個郭局長你是最全立法院最懂的法律的人千萬千萬不要講說我不知道這個事情會這麼嚴重這個事情確實是有點嚴重不過我在這裡還是跟主席做一個建議我想那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3577.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3601.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
經濟集合委員會裡頭可以討論可以探討的問題立法院的問題面向非常大那這個是不是我們今天我們的會議就到這裡那個結束然後就是我們當然也不是因為這些議題就不討論啦我們是不是另外再找一個恰當的時間我們再來討論好不好這個提議也很好啦不過我剛講你就要尊重 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3602.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3614.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
專業的嘛民主黨也講了法治局也講了那我們的職長裡面清清楚楚就沒有這個啊好啦我們先停下來用會員的方式停下來我們事後好好討論一下所以結論就是韓國瑜叫你做的嘛你剛剛自己講了啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3615.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3639.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
不要再用這種字亂下結論這樣跑錯地方了啦你至少把那個經濟集合委員會的職長弄清楚沒有啦 沒有跑錯地方啦因為其實上次那個真的就是去年的集合委員會啦那的確就是去年集合委員會他們的對話啦局長已經講了 他不是因為那個我的意思是說這個就是集合委員會那不是別的委員會 有一個臨時提案現在可以提嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3640.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3668.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
就是我們上次不是有講到那個會館台北會館的整修的事情嗎那因為上次台北會館有做了一個問有針對住宿的這些委員做了一個調查那我想請教一下就是說針對住宿委員所做的調查是不是也是適同這個立法院全體委員會的決議呢因為我們現在是我們經費集合委員會的結論嘛那是不是適同立法院全院委員的決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3670.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3674.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
宇申這個提的就是經濟機械委員會的業務啦我們的職長範圍啦 這個很明確一聽就知道嘛來 這個請廖炯志廖處長來說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3685.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3700.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
主席 各位委員 總務處報告我們根據上一次經費界委員會的決議針對台北會館要不要將這個拆除隔間合併房間的議題向各位住宿委員進行問卷調查調查的結果58%的委員有過半數支持這樣的方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3706.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3731.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
那在這個結果上我們要跟委員會來報告那這個議題後續會有兩個軸向一個是對於我們在六年計畫明年是最後一年那原定明年要現在12月要開工那明年要交屋的這個台北會館那在原計畫我們要辦理計畫的變更那還有在依契約跟這個廠商辦理這個賠償的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3734.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3758.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
第二個在新計畫的開展方面因為這個結構的部分是安全是第一所以我們首先會規劃進行這個結構的鑑定那結構鑑定確認後我們會依照鑑定的結果跟行政院爭取經費去辦理結構的補強還有後續的修繕工程大概會有後續的相關的程序 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3759.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3786.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
那至於這個經費集合委員會的決議是不是可以作為所謂這個契約變更的政策而決定的依據再請委員會討論 以上報告 謝謝OK 這個案子一開始是那個會員提的嘛會員一開始是你提的嘛 那現在廖處長已經做了說明 這個案子那這個案子要怎麼處理會比較 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3788.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3817.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
這個是經濟經濟委會有辦法完全決定的事情嗎還是要不要全院因為在長期上來講是像類似這個裡面因為會館裡面大概有蠻多委員在處理的那是不是說一定要提報到院會來處理他們往例裡面是沒有我所理解是往例是沒有我所瞭解的情況是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3818.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3846.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
没有到院会再处理它这个会馆的整理只不过是当时是有提到处长来跟我讲的时候是因为有涉及到一个经会上因为但这个已经到最后一年所以我问了组织处组织处有一些他们的一个规范另外就是一个可能结构上因为这一个会馆是老的老的时候这个结构上是不是需要做一个评估所以这个是总部处长给我一个意见 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3847.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3876.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
所以在這兩個前提下如果沒有當然也不一定說要提到院會我所理解是往日是沒有了往日是沒有的一個情形至於這一個一定是不是要全部委員去了解到這一個匯款到底要不要改或不要改這個是比較偏向行政事務我的個人理解是比較行政比如舉個例子講議事的運作比如說在院裡面麥克風怎麼安排 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3877.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3902.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
在以前曾经是全部委员要就是在院内的那个会场里面这个麦克风怎么安排这是要全部委员他们要做一个谈判的调查那至于这个行政事务上我所理解好像没有因为总务室跟我报告我这十点不在这边好像也没有在类似这个在提报院委屈以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3905.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
3913.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
女生你有沒有什麼建議要怎麼處理沒有啊所以就照那個會員當初的建議最後的結論是什麼你經過這個問卷調查之後的結論是兩間併一間 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
3926.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
3953.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
OK那就是結果上現在是兩因為現在沒有那麼多立委嘛這當初那個會館住宿那個會館是比較多立委的時候現在已經變成113位了確實真的也很小啦那現在那個最重要我們還是尊重專業對我們開會本來就是由專業來做這個監理那就是我們由總務處來處理這個事情那現在我們要不要做一個決定就是這個這件事情是經濟委員會就決定了還是要不要送到要送院會去備查嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
3955.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
3971.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
不要喔?網利沒有被查嗎?他必須要這個可能他們從事單位裡面因為他是老舊他老舊的時候就必須要有這個結構的一個他們可能要做一個結構評估第二個點就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
3972.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
3996.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
這有受到預算監慰的一個那剛才因為我在中國才知道我中國才跟這一個許書長在問因為他是最後一年 他是一六年危急的那這一個可能要行政院跟我講是要行政院同意這一個如果是的話要拜託你文區的時候聽說要行政院同意這一個大概他是跟我這樣報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
3998.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4027.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
沒有啦 像這樣我沒辦法因為台南好險那個電梯我是審計部那個電梯那個兩千三百多我自己跟審計長拜託了啦因為張偉之大因為他有學長學弟的關係他就同意讓我合了以後再找陳主席找我押了好久 那個兩千三百多萬都押了好久才給我 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4027.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4051.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
好 謝謝主席是來讓那個謝謝主席就針對剛才那一案當然我們尊重總務處目前的一個做法但是看起來就是說假設是整個要再做處理或跟結構有關它會牽扯到行政院這個部分那當然感謝對 經費的這個部分對對 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4059.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4082.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
因為他是老舊的 結果他一定要做一個檢定他一定要先鑑定能不能改 這個鑑定可以改可以改 那就涉及到錢的問題 那就要讓行政院去轉錢我們知道 這個比較專業 我們太懂就是一定要行政院同意 把這個錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4082.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4108.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
是 所以各位會碰到兩個嘛一個是經費可能很順然後一個是經費可能很不順那所以經費很順跟經費很不順是不是我們這邊可能也做個評估讓大家了解一個可能的其成這樣我是一個這樣的建議啦因為有可能我們現在討論完之後那某一些 剛有 我是不知道剛你是嚴死的那個提案人 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4113.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4137.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
會員你要不要拿麥克風你稍微還是已經沒有意見來主席謝謝我想謝謝秘書長的一個協助事實上就是說整體而言就是大安會館跟台北會館其實它是提供給就是我們長期就是在桃園桃園以南的那個委員他因為就是通勤的一個需要 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4138.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4154.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
事實上台北會館因為它在民國七十幾年建制的在結構上是不是有結構上的一個餘力我們過半的委員認為是不是在未來它可以是兩間打成一間這樣子的一個建議當然是結構上是要安全的 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4160.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4164.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
那我們也希望就是說如果有機會變成是兩間變成一間是不是比大安會館大安會館會更大一點可是那兩個交通的點基本上都是不一樣那在是不是就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4178.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4205.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
我是這樣建議如果在未來的話我們其他使用的委員其實他有比較多的選擇如果你要兩間的你可以就是留在那個大安會館你要一間的你可以是在台北會館那當然安全是最重要的安全是最重要的我再一次強調那如果說結構上的一個補強這個結構是那個不過的話當然我就不敢這樣主張了這個還是有賴於就是我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4206.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4222.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
那個立法院的同仁那個去協助謝謝主席那我們做個結論就是窘制這邊總務處去處理當然牽扯到後面預算人跟行政院那邊要進一步去討論這可以嗎那這個案子就這樣了 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4230.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4255.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
這樣喔 那培宇剛剛培宇剛剛一直在提的那個那就是剛剛法治企業都在嘛就是他剛剛講的你就要做一個參考啦好不好來來來我們等於是比照上次處理陳立正跟小林他們的案子的方式嘛就是建立嘛跟照理報告喔有關剛剛陳委員講的那個公會助理的 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4257.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4276.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
不管是補助還是他的報稅什麼這個根本不是我們法治也有怎麼會是老師叫我們法治也要做我們會你相關條件是請業務單位啊寫好條件來給我們我們只是貼上去了然後完全都不關法治也有什麼然後一直要說我們法治也怎樣我們法治也我真的實在是 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4278.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4295.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
我想請問委員你們送聘書是送到法治局來嗎不會吧 對不對這種就不關我們的事然後一直說好啦 那這次比照 因為培宇現在出去了培宇的案子跟上次處理小玲那個案子是一樣就是給法治局參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4298.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4318.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
這個不會是我們法治委員長 應該是人事處就是我們一樣 跟一樣的處理方式把這個意見做個參考這個補充啦 我不是特別要討論這件事我覺得大家在不同會議裡面 有人可能提出跟這個會議執掌有關的 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4320.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4348.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
有些跟這個會議執掌可能沒有關的那不是一對一啦所以或許上回陳委員或者是翁委員他們提出一些建議然後今天陳委員也提出一些建議但是應該我們這個會就就我們會議執掌然後去處理相關的議案也不是說每一個人提的都是正好這個執掌裡面能夠處理的所以可能不是本來就不是執掌更遑論說還要再分配什麼我覺得這是第一點啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4349.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4373.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
然後第二點 剛才其實祕書長還有局長這邊都講得很清楚其實應該法治局會做相關的議案不是說哪一個委員講了就一定會做而是說應該有一些法案上的一個需要或者是政策上的一個需要然後當然我講比較更細節一點應該不是每一個委員提案就要做相關研究這樣我想不可能法治局會有這種量能 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4373.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4395.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
然後提案會不會通過或者是說提案它還有很多程序 附議或者是它是不是會經過刪讀現在都沒有個定案所以我覺得重點是說在會議裡面可能有人會提出跟這個職長有關或沒有關係的那應該就是會議裡面去做相關的定奪那每個委員意見都可以作為一個參考至於說會是什麼樣子的結果我想應該要看實際的狀況而言這是我一個補充 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4402.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4414.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
OK 好 那這個案子就先這樣處理了啦我們就是依照職長 依照經濟我們現在要開經濟集合委員會就是跟經濟集合委員會有相關的職長我們才做啦好 那剛剛反正就是比照 剛剛我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4416.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4442.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
會員那個建議很好我們私底下可能也再聊一下好不好我們再深深的談一下那一定是一樣的就是比照比照上次小玲他們的案子處理法治局就聯事處法治局參考參考啦請剛剛那個培穎那個那個他的發言人事處跟法治局參考好不好跟這個跟上次跟那個小玲那個處理是一樣的好來來可以可以可以那就這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4450.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4455.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
好還有沒有其他的意見 沒有好 那我們就宣告本次會議進行到此為止現在散會 謝謝 |