| IVOD_ID |
17118 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17118 |
| 日期 |
2025-12-15 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-19-16 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第16次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
16 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第16次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-12-15T08:32:21+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-12-15T12:40:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
04:07:39 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/16eb79f0bb3b77db2898cc04c8ca19048c0f74099b584ec6d5e67b2ed5162375732e237d8b38e6b35ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-12-15T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第16次全體委員會議（事由：邀請農業部部長及環境部首長就「2027年全面禁止廚餘養豬」進行報告，並備質詢。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:32:21 - 12:40:00 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
1621.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].end |
1621.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
由 Amara.org 社群提供的字幕 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1707.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1722.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
好我們現在開會請組密報告出席人數報告委員會出席委員11人以主法定人數好我們現在開會進行報告事項請宣讀上次會議議事錄立法院第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第15次全體委員會議事錄時間114年12月8日星期一9時3分至12時4分地點紅樓101會議室出席委員邱益穎等14人 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1732.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1748.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
列席委員郭國文等8人列席人員農業部部長陳俊濟等主席陳昭吉委員亭飛報告事項 宣讀上次會議事錄決定 確定 討論事項審查 依本院委員謝一鳳等16人理據農民退休儲金條例第7條條文修正草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1749.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1777.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
臺灣事項和平詢答 農業部部長陳俊濟報告後委員邱盈盈等17人提出質詢 經由農業部部長陳俊濟等及其答覆登記發言委員除不在場者外 其餘均與發言完畢 詢答結束委員徐信盈及邱政軍所提書面質詢列入紀錄 刊登公報書面質詢和未及答覆部分 請相關單位於一週內與書面答覆並複製本會 委員力有要求期限者從其鎖定而本院委員郭國文等17人理據 農民退休儲金條例第7條條文修正長案 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1778.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1795.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
3 本院委員蔡依儀等20人 委員陳廷飛等19人分別擬聚 農民退休儲金條例第2條及第7條調研修正草案等2案決議 審查結束114年12月22日繼續審查 散會 宣讀完畢好 那我們繼續進行報告4項 請宣讀邀請農業部部長及環境部首長就2027年全面禁止廚餘養豬進行報告並被質詢 宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1806.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1818.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
好 我們首先來介紹在場的官員以及委員在場的官員有我們的陳俊濟部長 謝謝還有我們環境部長賜沈長賜 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1826.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1838.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
主席台宣告本日的议程排定是2027年全面禁止厨余养猪进行报告并被质询那首先我们先请陈俊俊部长请做报告 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1849.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1860.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
主席 各位委員 大家早 那今天很榮幸受經濟委員會的邀請到立法院經濟委員會報告2027年全面禁止廚藝養豬的一個專題報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1865.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1885.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
那以下就用簡報向各位委員做簡單的一個說明目前全國的養豬戶大概是5552戶那整個自給率大概是88.7過往 大概是88到90之間表示說我們國產豬肉還是深受國內的一個喜愛那114年現在目前是83.1那最主要是 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1887.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1904.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
因為肥肉豬瘟造成的一個禁止廚藝的15天造成一些豬肉沒辦法上市導致這個自給力短期的一個下降那整個廚藝兩豬政策事實上在107年開始農業部當時農委會基本上就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1905.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
1933.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
一直積極的加強整個廚藝養豬戶的一個轉型那從107年的2048場一直降到現在目前大概在肥肉豬瘟發生之前大概436場那在110年我們也曾經禁止廚藝養豬一個月然後那時候有新的一個規定就是200頭以上而且由地方政府合法再利用檢核資格的養豬場才可以去做廚養豬而且整個的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
1934.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
1953.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
徵阻一定要90度C一個小時以上那在114年10月20號再度發生深圳人發生了臺灣肥肉豬的一個首例那我們同時再度禁止廚藝養豬那整個廚藝養豬經過疫調的過程因經過整個所有的一個內部的一個檢討就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
1954.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
1983.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
我們最後確定是全面禁止廚養豬但是給予一年的轉型最後的一個期限就是在116年的1月1號狀況預定全面禁止廚養豬但在這個之前如果地方政府願意提早的話都是因為這是地方自治的一個事項由地方政府自行決定那在轉型期的期間就是明年1月1號到明年的12月31號那你如果要用廚養豬的話你是有條件的使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
1984.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2001.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
必須要經過監測加強落實 集合還有法令完備三個要件同時這些處於養豬的車子也必須裝載7BS才可以進行處於養豬那在農業部的部分我們還是持續地去全面輔導整個養豬場轉用飼料 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2004.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2018.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
那轉型期間允許未租的廚餘的料源大概分為幾類第一個部分就是我們是允許事業廚餘動物性廢紮及屠宰下甲料但是禁止使用家務廚餘那植物性的料源 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2019.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2043.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
一直持續都可以使用的部分那環境部未來會用正面表列的方式來提供廚藝的類型以利廚藝養豬場明確的一個使用那為了降低廚藝料源混雜的一個風險那同時要求廚藝養豬屋提出他收取端的一個廚藝的料源的場所清單來由地方政府審視而同意場所的一個清單 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2044.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2070.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
那另外環境部也將要求地方清潔隊所收的廚藝不可標售給養豬戶那由這張表可以看得出來目前大概是421場那這個場數會持續的在減少那在在明年的1月31號之前如果你決定不使用廚藝養豬的話那就是由農業部來補助轉型的一個飼料養豬那如果說你 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2071.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2099.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
決定在明年度能夠持續的用廚藝養豬的一年的過渡期的話那你必須符合三個要件就是廚藝的徵組一定要做及時的一個監視系統然後同時你要裝加上CBS那相關的法令規定農業部跟環境部都已經完成了一個相關的一個法令規範的研議那在這個情況之下最重要就是一定要經過地方政府同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2099.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2117.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
那同意以後你才能夠開始在明年1月1號開始使用廚藝養豬如果在明年1月1號之前你如果還沒有完成裝置相關的溫度及顯示影像的時候那原來核准的在地用資格就會失效不得重新申請 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2118.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2137.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
那整個相關的一個措施那大概分為幾個部分就是我們提供了飼料叉的一個補助然後維持市場的一個公訂那相關的後續的這些轉型的部分農業部會針對轉型提供相關的一個衛生設施的一個補助系統然後同時給予 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2138.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2159.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
租場的一個轉型的一個金融的支持同時更重要的是我們為了讓黑豬的產業能夠永續我們也成立了黑豬產業的一個專案輔導團隊那在第一階段第二階段這個都已經第一階段大概是15天的部分我們做了飼料差的一個補貼那第二階段是到12月31號我們持續會給予飼料差的一個補貼 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2163.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2190.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
那在開始去做這樣處理轉型的部分我們大概分為兩個部分在明年1月31號之前如果你願意接受轉型為飼料養豬者那每頭大概是3600塊同時我們也給予相關的衛生設備的一個補助從30萬到300萬之間但是如果說你在明年的1月31號以後才決定用飼料 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2191.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2207.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
去做這樣子一個轉型的話那你的那個補助的部分大概是減半大概每頭是1800那會這樣的一個設計最主要是鼓勵我們的業者提早的去做這樣轉型然後也能夠接受我們農業部的一個輔導 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2208.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2226.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
那整個黑豬產業輔導的專案大概分為兩個部分短期的部分我們會持續的辦這個相關的說明會跟座談會那去從事相關的一個技術輔導同時我們也會提供相關的商業用的飼料配方及我們續日所提供的 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2227.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2255.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
那個飼料替代的配方來做推廣然後同時我們會針對黑豬的品牌做整體的一個行銷來舉辦黑豬的共識營那中長期的部分除了做這樣子一個配方的持續的改良以外那其實我們會透過公私協力來加速優良的這些黑豬品系的一個選育來建構整個黑豬的保種的策略然後同時兼顧防疫及營養的需求我們會持續的 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2256.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2276.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
透過公司協力來建構除以飼料化的一個系統那整體來講這次除以養豬的政策調整是我國面對非洲豬瘟威脅下的一個關鍵的一個防疫的措施那為了兼顧防疫與各地方政府除以去化以及除以養豬獲得轉型的一個食物中央部會將 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2279.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2300.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
協同地方政府以最高的標準落實非洲豬瘟的一個防疫工作那透過配套的一個補助金融的支持及技術的輔導來協助養豬戶者做穩健的一個轉型確保防疫疫情不再入侵我國穩固我們整個養豬的一個產業這也是我們最大共同努力的一個目標那請委員相關支持 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2301.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2319.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
好謝謝農業部部長的一個報告謝謝那我們現在確認醫事錄請問各位同仁剛剛所唸的醫事錄有沒有意見好沒有意見我們醫事錄確認接下來我們請衛生環境部省自修省長治來做報告謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2329.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2356.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
主席還有各位委員大家早安大家好環境部針對廚餘去化的部分的規劃來跟各位委員做一個專案報告我們知道在10月23號之後我們政府就做了一個決定就是禁止廚餘養豬一直到今天為止那這段時間我們有統計的各縣市的這個廚餘所產生的量那大概是1755公噸 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2358.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2370.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
那也盤點了我們國內可以再利用的這樣的一個廚餘的量大概是1100公噸那這段時間各縣市所採取的方式以魂化跟掩埋佔56%那再利用部分佔44%好 下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2375.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2399.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
那在這段時間目前大概還有416家的養豬場他有減核的許可那我們環境部跟農業單位進行了這個嚴密的一個稽查每週一輪的方式全面清查到目前為止已經查了8輪那只要查到不合格的部分都依照相關法規來做處分下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2401.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2418.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
那在這個轉型的期間因為我們知道落日是一年的時間那未來可以繼續養豬的部分我們用正面表列的方式來讓大家能夠理解那可以養豬的部分包括集中工廠的剩食餐廳超市賣場的過期品以及食品工廠的下甲藥 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2419.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2445.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
那将来如果要轻运送去养猪场继续处于养猪的部分轻运的车辆必须要装GPS那很明确的告诉大家就是只要是清洁队收的厨余都不可以养猪那公寓大厦以及这个小吃餐等等也都列在不可以处于养猪的一个范围下一页那正面表列的方式是让大家更能够理解产生源哪一些是可以养猪的好下一页 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2446.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2472.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
我們也盤點這樣的一個量能以目前來講就是到今年年底之後有一年的轉型啟示可以繼續事業處於養豬那這個部分不能養豬的部分這個不能處於養豬的部分就會進到再利用或者是妥善處理的管道包括魂化跟掩埋那我們估計一下目前的再利用量能是1100噸那在未來的一年各縣市會再增加600噸左右那 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2472.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2499.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
可能會需要魂化掩埋的數量大概是200多噸那到了這個明年底之後呢因為已經全面禁止處於養豬但是也因為民間有這樣的一個再利用量能上來所以估計會去魂化掩埋的數量會到395但是到了隔一年之後再利用量能又再上來400噸左右所以到那個時候已經是平衡了國內的循環再利用量能就會大於產生量好 下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2500.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2520.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
那這段配套期間環境部跟農業部必須要做的事情包括我們要求繼續要養豬的業者必須要有檢核許可必須要能夠安裝即時的監控設備然後運送的車輛要裝GPS那對於這段時間如果是採用文化廠處理的各縣市那必須要加測這個帶要心 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2522.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2549.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
必須要符合環境的一個規範那另外這段時間我們也請擱淺室必須要增加這個在利用的處理設施包括堆毀黑水門或者是生殖棱等等做好準備那另外環境部也會跟這個教育部農業部共同來推洗食的部分從源頭來減量鼓勵我們的市民朋友吃多少點多少不要浪費食物那麼能夠讓源頭就可以做最好的一個減量好下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2550.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2562.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
那這段時間環境部跟農業部都必須要對相關的法規包括智慧監控以及裝GPS要有完備的法令目前正在進行當中到12月31號之前一定會完成法令的一個準備好 下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2563.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2577.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
那這段時間呢我們也開發了31家廠商可以來協助我們的養豬廠裝設智慧監控設備那目前有277家養豬廠他有申請的意願那已經完成裝設的有到今天為止有133家下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2581.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2601.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
那這段時間我們特別也關注用焚化處理的這個25座焚化爐他必須要去控制好這樣的一個操作讓他可以不要造成環境的負擔那也加測這個黛奧辛那目前加測黛奧辛出來的結果大概都比他過去三年的這個數值還略低好 下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2602.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2625.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
那我們看除以量能的規劃到明年年底之前在一年之間會增加大概有600噸的這樣的一個再利用設施116年會再增加400噸左右到了116年底就平衡了那麼117年還會有400噸的這個生殖能的設施會再上來所以將來的這個除以走再利用這個部分就可以完全步上軌道下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2627.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2656.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
那這段時間三個部會環境部 教育部 農業部都會對食農教育 洗食的部分會展開全面性的一個推廣下一頁那我們會跟農業部在今年年底之前完成所謂的法規的準備那麼也會輔導各縣市加速興建這樣的一個再利用設施那三個部會共同來推動洗食教育以上是環境部跟行政團隊對廚餘去化的一個規劃 以上報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2657.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2679.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
好 我們謝謝環境部次長所做的報告那麼有關本次會議各部會所提的書面報告請委員自行參閱並刊登公報那現在我們進行詢答委員詢答前我們尋舊例以下做如此的宣告 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2679.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2696.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
每位委員發言時間6分鐘 必要時增加1分鐘非本委員會4分鐘那麼上午10點半截止登記首先請第一位的林黛華委員請做詢答有請陳部長我們請陳部長國務委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2705.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2729.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
好 防疫底線不能靠運氣 廚餘本質是廢棄物而不是飼料所以本身第一個防疫優先產業要活所以本席非常肯定現在行政院一個很重要的決策全面禁用廚餘養豬那當然豬肉是國人最重要的肉品 自給率也都達到8成5所以一旦非洲豬瘟全面爆發 國產豬停擺 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2731.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2757.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
供给的缺口可能五成以上租价的飙涨受害的不只是这60万的养猪从业人口而是全体的消费者所以今天讨论的这个不是环保的小议题其实是台湾猪产业跟人民餐桌的大议题所以这一次的非洲猪瘟是猪农一生的破产风险但是它不该是正策是错的代价 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2757.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2760.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
所以本席主张应该把现有的 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2787.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2812.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
好 部長你請回應謝謝委員的一個建議就是我們把相關的禁止廚養豬放到飼料管理法是一個方法那現在我們是用動產條例的本身是規定它不能夠做相關的這些廚藝的移動那後續我想我會針對委員的建議看看是不是可以更強烈的直接放到飼料管理法裡面來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2812.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2826.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
那我覺得應該要直接因為你剛才講的你那個動物那個相關的那個法令只是禁止廚餘的移動但是你全面禁用廚餘的政策那既然是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2827.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2848.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
你就是得寫進飼料管理法所以部長您是願意來做我想我們回去內部討論如果說寫下去如果說我們現在做的方法效果是一樣的話我們會先做因為進到飼料管理法的話還會進到立法院裡面整個法案的一個審查那可能需要一點時間我們回去再來做相關的一個配套的研究 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2848.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2867.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
好OK好那廚餘的責任應該回到政府不應該讓8%的豬替全國處理30%的廚餘所以其實依我們高雄為例為了接住禁廚餘的壓力高雄已經把兩座的堆肥廠從每日的8噸拓成為27噸並規劃以BOT的模式來一座 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2872.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2900.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
興建一座日處理120度的生殖能源廠興建至少要兩到三年才能真正的扛起現在送去焚化的大部分的廚餘所以在這邊我剛才也看到環境部的報告其實也相對的完整把堆肥掩埋廠即將的在116年退廠然後在生殖能的部分等相關的去化也做了 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2901.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2915.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
一個量能的提升跟補助所以這一點我就也不要再問下去 所以環境部的做法我本席非常的肯定 不過我在這邊也要求環境部是不是時間暫停一下 我請次長我們請次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2921.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2944.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
好市長針對環境部我這邊要求在明年6月底前這個你是否能提出全國除於去化量能跟缺口的報告而且這當中除了再一次的把2025年到2028年全國除於產生的量的預估以及各年度堆肥生殖能黑水盲等 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2945.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2960.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
可能量能與缺口以及各縣市也包含全面停用除以養豬的縣市跨區調度計劃與風險管理也能夠提供給立法院呢可以好OK謝謝好再來我們在針對 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2961.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
2979.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
這邊在 次長您請回 部長我看到您的簡報第10頁長城的規劃為兼顧防疫跟營養需求公私協力建構 廚餘飼料化體系是否部長您要清楚再說明一下什麼叫做廚餘飼料化 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
2980.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3010.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
我跟委員報告因為廚藝現在目前的再利用大概除了做能源化 堆核化以外那一個非常重要的就是廚藝如果經過工廠化相關的把水濾乾成為規格化它也是可以變成一個飼料的一個產品就像日本的那個eco feed這樣的一個方式所以我們也曾經到日本去看過 去觀摩過所以未來的我們會協助目前的一個已經有的苗栗的珍珠中心裡面我們去協助它把它變成一個飼料化的 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3010.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3034.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
一個工廠那這樣的話規格的飼料花也可以來餵豬它的用途呢能夠餵相關的豬隻還要餵豬隻喔 部長沒有 我跟委員報告就是飼料沒有 廚藝變成飼料花它就是飼料了它不再是用廚藝只是它的料源是廚藝但是最後出來的是一個有規格的成分的標記的一個飼料 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3036.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3064.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
好那本席就要求了如果你這個國內要引進Ecofeed的話你需明訂來源製程檢驗稽查與禁止項目這一定會而且呢我本席要求是要用在相關法規內用專章處理或者是您要用一個專法來做Ecofeed這樣子的一個政策方向所以如果在未修法前你的Ecofeed的試驗當然是 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3067.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3091.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
僅得用於非食用食物那就是說你是不是要回歸用到豬啊當然牛羊是吃草啦這個豬不能用到回歸到當你在試驗的時候你是不是馬上就要用到這樣的豬隻還是說在你試驗的這樣過程當中你應該用到非食用動物而且因為你還沒有立法 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3092.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3099.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
所以我認為你在Ecofeed這樣的實驗階段到應該是要謹慎的所以這個您怎麼看 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3100.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3122.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
謝謝委員的提醒我想我們在正式的推出EcoFit類似這樣的廚藝飼料的話第一個部分法規一定會完備它然後會做很明確的料源的一個使用不是所有的料源都適合做這樣的一個廚藝飼料化的部分那第三個的話整個飼料本身也要經過相關的一個檢驗而且它的品規也會做檢驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3123.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3149.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
好我在這邊提醒就是如果你要積極開發廚餘飼料化產品就要有義務把防疫跟法治走在前面而不是讓豬隻跟豬農再一次替國家的適風險好再來這個補助轉型補助要有效而不是逼豬農非法求生在本席要問的時候我想了解這個百億豬隻的基金 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3150.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3165.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
我們的養豬基金從第一期的百億到現在我聽說到行政院這邊你們下修到50億那到底行政院是到底金額是多少那第二個是什麼時候要核定 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3167.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3186.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
我跟委員報告就是第二期的這樣子一個養豬的一個升級韌性的部分大概50.52億左右那他另外會未來會外加一個就是我們的那個鋪子的一個養豬那個什麼肉品市場那個經費另外做切割所以現在是50.52億百億的養豬現在變成50多億什麼時候合 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3192.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3221.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
應該在年底之前應該會合下來年底之前有點太慢了這個疫情都要過了我們都進入到第二個階段了部長您是否同意在2026年逐季公開轉型的進度跟補助使用情形也就是明年你在做這樣的轉型當中你還是要公開這樣的轉型進度跟補助情形第二個2027年以後轉型後你如果飼料的租成本仍然過高 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3222.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3242.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
农业部是否还会追加预算持续补助呢第一个部分我想我们一定会每个月我们都会公开不是每一季每个月都会公开现在转型的这样一个进度然后第二个部分就是2027年以后如果说租资我想你的 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3244.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3260.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
成本會跟原來的廚餘相比那廚餘本身的費用就比較低我們應該看整體的豬農的收益跟白豬或是黑豬的這些收益我希望他是拉能夠誤差會比較小一點這是我們努力的目標部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3261.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3284.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
這個我只是一個提醒不要像我們現在政府推的青年購屋貸款青年購屋貸款給他優惠前五年你不用繳本金你只要繳利息第六年開始繳本金現在就是第六年之後其實還是繳不起因為你的薪資根本趕不上讓你去繳你的貸款的本金 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3285.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3308.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
所以這樣的一個政策 那好意變成是一個 反而是青年的負擔啦所以我提醒你 你2026年 大力的補助啊那這個到底我們飼養的成本 還是這麼高的情況之下你嘎然的說好 我不補助你農民了 你的飼料費用了那可能又是另外一場的這個民怨爆發 我只是善意提醒你 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3308.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3328.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
好 再來最後 農業部在這邊 以上除以退出豬男士防疫的底線也是國家責任的開始本席也希望我們兩個部會能夠在我們一起加油打氣希望在禁止廚餘入豬請農業部儘速的將寫進農業管理法在這邊對於農業部也要很明確的就是把廚餘當作自己的廢棄物的責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3336.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3348.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
那我們一起來為這樣的防疫的底線能夠守住成為國家責任 好 謝謝 以上謝謝委員謝謝接下來我們請邱議員委員請做詢談謝謝主席 我請一下陳部長我們再請陳部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3367.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3380.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
委員好 部長好部長我想剛剛這個我們今天談到的這個廚餘養豬的問題還是要再進一步請教就剛剛的報告裡頭我們還我想要釐清幾個問題就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3383.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3402.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
2027年開始我們就全面禁止廚餘養豬所以過去的那個已經正式申請合法廚餘養豬的現在台灣大概還有420間嘛這420間的養豬場他們的廚餘徵主設備你現在說明年一定要把它全部拆完對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3402.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3421.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
過去這些人是因為我們的政策支持所以他去申請了合法的廚餘蒸煮設備是現在政策轉彎要求他們明年就要把它全部拆除請問這個損失是算在誰身上是豬農自己要負責嗎還是政府會有一些相關的補貼第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3423.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3438.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
接下來的這一些全面禁止廚餘剛剛有提到了植物性的料源這件事情我一直還沒有聽得很完整就是說植物性的料源是可以未來持續用在養豬嗎還是它也是有一個過渡期 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3439.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3464.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
如果他可以持續用在養豬的話請問這些植物性的料源要不要蒸煮該不該蒸煮需不需要蒸煮如果不需要蒸煮的話直接拿下去餵豬豬可以吃得下去可以受得了嗎那如果需要蒸煮的話那你現在的這些蒸煮設備拆掉又或者是他上面就鋪了一層 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3465.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3493.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
植物性的的這個廚餘下面還是一些家用的或者是什麼樣的這些肉的這些的廚餘該如何追緝該如何管來部長第一個我跟委員報告就是有關於廚餘養豬的部分珍珠設備一定要就是轉成飼料的話他要拆除但是我們對應的補助是30萬到300萬的一個一個衛視系統的一個補助等於說是取代他的 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3494.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3522.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
一個增組設備的部分他本來所以你還是要補助他去購買其他的設備就是對 就是衛視設備飼料的衛視設備根據規模30萬到300萬等於說用替代的方式來取代他目前的第二個部分 植物性料園是一直都是可以使用我們從來沒有禁止過那委員說得很好就是說未來增組設備我們一定要拆掉如果不拆的話讓他植物性料園在原來的場域增組的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3523.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3550.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
就很有可能造成他又做一個非法的廚餘的使用所以我們現在會規劃有一些共同的類似共同的現在目前苗栗的一個共同增儲中心是不是有機會把它變成一個植物性料園或者是廚餘的飼料的一個加工廠我們希望用這樣的方式來提供給豬農部長您剛剛講苗栗這個是統一的增儲中心嗎這個是屬於苗栗縣政府的還是是屬於中央的私人的 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3551.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3577.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
私人的徵主中心那可是你們現在又講說徵主中心你們要未來要把它統一轉換成EcoFit那這個跟你原來的跟你剛剛講的前面的政策有沒有互相的矛盾共同徵主中心那你如果說可以用共同徵主中心徵主好去提供給豬農去提供來這些不管是這個植物性的料源或者是家用的 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3578.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3601.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
還是說以後都只有植物性的家用的完全都不能做 家用完全是不能用的所以你就是植物性的植物性的透過這個珍珠中心來提供給豬農去養豬不一定是只有苗栗這個廠因為植物性的料園如果有願意成立一個共同珍珠只有植物性料園的部分我們是很樂意來輔導的 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3602.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3610.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
那另外現在有的共同政府中心我們會把他服務到轉型成為廚餘的飼料化工廠這是兩件不同的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3611.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3632.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
那你覺得有沒有可能會有人鑽這個漏洞比如說我上面就鋪了一層厚厚的植物性料園下面還是廚餘你又看不出來你又不能每一桶每一桶翻箱來檢查所以這個就是說我們要用共同的珍珠中心因為共同的珍珠中心它不需要那麼多廠那樣子的話集合就可以很容易集合得到 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3632.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3652.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
所以這個集合是你們集合還是是環境部我想是環境部跟我們我想還有地方政府最主要是地方政府要集合我想我們中央跟地方一定跨部會一定會一起所以這個管理辦法有設計好了嗎現在還在討論因為現在還在討論包括其實部長我要談的就是說包括你們講這個GPS |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3657.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3687.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
用GPS去追蹤到底你的這些植物性的料源從哪裡收植物性的料源需不需要裝GPS目前看起來好像沒有沒有在明年的過渡期的話他不會只在植物性料源他也會在一些事業廚餘那這個廚餘的車子一定要裝GPS更重要的是這些廚餘的車子去哪邊收他一定要先提出一個清單由環境部跟地方政府確認過以後才可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3687.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3700.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
部長所以你未來會是植物性的料源跟事業廢棄物事業的廚餘都是同一個一套設備在收嘛是不是所以你的植物性料源有可能那個桶子裡頭其實它也曾經裝過了事業的廚餘對 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3704.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3729.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
那你還是把它混雜在一起啊這是過渡期是可以因為過渡期是可以廚餘養豬可以用事業廚餘所以我剛就點到了這個問題你在過渡期裡頭你應該要怎麼樣的去做管理以免交叉感染了解那這個管理的模式跟運作的方式我覺得這個可能也是農業部一個很頭痛或者是應該要趕快及手去處理的包括你們跟環境部之間應該要處理的 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3731.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3750.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
一個很重要的核心議題如何避免交叉感染如何的有效的把這一些的事業廚餘或者是植物性的料源做很清楚的分類讓它能夠用在可以使用的地方那剛剛我們講的EcoFit的這些未來的把它轉換成飼料這個進程 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3754.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3768.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
這個規劃這個設廠啦建置啦其實都需要兩三年的時間那你很快的明年年底就不能再用廚餘養豬了到你的新的EcoFit的廠建置好這中間會有一到兩年的gap那這個要如何去補足 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3768.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3786.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
如何去處理這件事情我想這個也要有賴農業部跟環境部去做更進一步的相關的規劃好那接下來因為時間剩下不多我要請教一下菲律賓現在禁止台灣的豬肉進口我想請教這是防疫的考量還是政治的考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3787.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3811.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
第一个部分是防疫的考量因为一般生鲜猪肉部分如果说你是疫区的话那相关的根据WHOH规范是不可以输出的所以我们也是主动停止发这个证但是加工用的部分是还可以的包括日本包括新加坡所以是生鲜不行但是加工的是还可以要看国家日本是同意的然后新加坡也同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3812.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3839.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
這兩個最主要的都同意所以剛剛部長您講到日本同意 新加坡同意是加工的加工的這些肉品是可以的所以它不會產生我們所謂一連串的骨牌效應也不會對於台灣的這些豬肉出口的信譽造成重大的影響因為我看農業部農業部大概對於這個評估因為好像你們認為我們出口菲律賓其實量是非常少的所以對於整個出口的影響是非常的低但是我擔心的是整個 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3840.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3867.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
政治的考量或者是整個骨牌效益所以我這個還是要請部長您再更明確的回答一下我第一個部分就是生鮮的豬肉基本上禁止不同的國家禁止進入它的國家是因為WHO的規範是一個防疫的考量但是加工的部分因為你也是一個防疫因為你加工以後是可以的部分那相關的日本 新加坡 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3868.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3878.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
這個國家都同意我們去所以沒有所謂的政治的考量好 您確定沒有政治的考量沒有政治的考量好 謝謝好 謝謝謝謝接下來我們請張祺凱委員請做詢問 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3905.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3920.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
現在陳部長跟次長我們再請兩位 謝謝我們肯定你們這段時間非常努力的方式這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3922.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3940.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
這個非洲豬瘟現在問題是 現在看起來那個廚餘禁止養豬之後 現在看起來很多地方都得那個後遺症還有很多地方都需要你們大力去幫忙像現在當地的重大問題現在各個很多地方的那個焚化爐壓力都很大這次市長一直在點頭你有加氣氣 加氣氣這個兩座焚化爐 它那個焚化量一天210.96公噸現在給它廚餘 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3950.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3977.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
這缸的差不多20.20公噸那現在做了我們做了前面禁止這個廚藝養豬之後那個壓力就更大了當然嘉義市政府很努力啦他馬上就提出了很多的這個這個緊急的這個措施包括希望就是說要落實這個分類然後廚藝瀝乾以後瀝乾 瀝乾水分之後放到廚藝桶裡面去回收各個縣市政府也很努力的做這件事情然後嘉義市還有很特別的一間我今天要派出去 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3978.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4005.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
嘉義市有推這個綠能永續循環園區這個裡面有六大類裡面有一個是抵紮的在利用場那個環境部環境部在去年有做了一部分的這個幫忙它總經費1億1235萬那環境部有做的幫忙那現在更需要了所以要請多幫忙好不好另外一個做特別的跟這個廚藝有很大關係你看它有特別設立一個廚藝在利用場 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4006.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4032.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
因為現在發生了這個非洲疏溫之後好 現在已經很緊張了所以他們在議會就市政府緊急追加 議會通過了他的這個預算特等預算 我跟你講 拜託保證給我促進就在嘉義市那個廚藝那個廚藝在利用場這部分多幫忙 好不好其實各個縣市政府他只要這個廚藝在利用場趕快做好這個壓力才能減輕啦 好不好OK 好 那另外呢 我要幫 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4034.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4060.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
我們的同學跟團山業者請命現在就另外一個很嚴重的問題就是營養午餐會不會漲價的問題現在團山業者現在我們做了一個政策的改變嘛 對不對做一個政策改變 改變以後之後現在業者要去清印 量太大了所以現在有卡住 甚至有些價格都在往上跑嘛這是第一個問題 那第二個更嚴重囉那團山業者那個費用增加了 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4064.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4075.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
其實現在最擔心的是什麼會不會造成我們的營養午餐漲價影響到我們的小朋友這部分是不是兩個部位可以做什麼樣的幫忙跟委員報告一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4076.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4101.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
如果是在未來的一年因為事業廚藝學校團散集中供應的盛使是可以繼續廚藝養豬的在未來的一年裡面我們估計因為目前大概有277個養豬廠已經提出要申請裝設智慧監控設備他為什麼要裝就是他想要繼續廚藝養豬那目前已經裝好了有133個廠 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4103.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4128.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
那因為將來的那個料園只剩下事業廚餘那家戶的廚餘是禁止養豬的所以大家會搶那個料園所以學校團散的料園是可以繼續養豬的我們估計可能會有一些繼續養豬的養豬廠會去接收已經不再就農業部有轉型嘛他有補助他們就不再吃廚餘的那這個部分的那個產生源的部分會由繼續養豬的部分去接收 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4129.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4150.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
現在就是很多人來陳情 團山業者現在很緊張包括中華民國 餐盒 食品 商業同業公會 聯合會 理屬店陳明信你就說了嘛他現在就是說 現在整個廚餘量大爆炸嘛所以業者現在忙不過來對不對跟委員報告 他講的問題是最近這兩個禮拜的事情 不是未來一年 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4150.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4172.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
因為這兩個禮拜是這段時間是禁止廚餘養豬的全部沒地方去那這段時間的確是各縣市政府都面臨這樣的一個清運因為剛好有一些養豬業者他就不再吃廚藝他就這個時候決定就不再去收運了以至於這個時候會有缺口大家很辛苦啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4172.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4191.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
所以各縣市目前作業的方式就是用清潔隊去收運或者是用開口合約以及清除業者來清除那這個部分的清運費用中央都有補助清運跟處理費用都不收錢他說現在一攤的廚藝用200公斤去省他們這個一天大概處理30桶一家如果30桶一天就給5萬出來我知道 這就是成本啦所以市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4200.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4218.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
我們都有關注這個議題啦短時間之內的處理方式還有未來一年我要跟委員報告大家在估計說轉型之後可能會有他不送去廚餘養豬那成本就會墊高啦因為你再利用不管用黑水門或堆毀等等那個成本都會有所謂的清運跟處理的費用 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4219.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4241.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
那這個部分有去估算以市場的行情大概要到8000塊左右啦那當我們轉嫁之後我們估計小朋友的剩食每個人到底會漲多少這個當然也跟你的一開始菜單的設計營養健康也要美味可口啊那如果能夠源頭就減少廚餘的產生量那需要廚餘的量就會降低各個學校都在努力當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4242.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4254.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
現在三個三個大問題要運得出去嘛你說有補助還要怎麼進一步去幫忙這個你要讓他運得出去這個要做要努力要加快跟加大好不好第二個這個顯然就是他的 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4256.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4273.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
成本提高了所以你們有一部分的補助對不對那要多幫幫他們渡過這個難關第三個比較重要我覺得第三個比較重要就是你剛剛提的不能夠轉嫁弄到後來問題前面這兩個問題沒有解決弄到後來學生營養午餐受影響所以前面兩個解決完之後第三個去注意 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4275.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4291.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
跟委員報告好營養午餐剛有講就是說菜單的設計很重要盡量不要產生剩食那另外教育部也關心這個議題他們也有參與到這個系統裡面去看看怎麼樣去讓源頭可以減量 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4291.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4303.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
然後是不是營養午餐會反應實際的那這個要看市場機制另外就是餐飲業餐飲業可能也會因為這樣子那使用者要付費這個也必須要去面對這個議題其實就是我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4305.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4322.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
我們就肯定你們做的這些措施那就是說可是是政策的一個改變所以改變這個過程裡面他們很多人需要幫忙包括不會影響血統你們要多努力 是不是是因為政策的改變好 接下來有兩個很重要其實要改變社會問題不然要怎樣再利用 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4324.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4351.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
第一個 我要問你一個很重要的其實2018年的時候那時候你們就有宣布說包括要在六都規劃三座生殖的廚藝廠對不對有嘛 對不對共同珍珠廠嗎不是 生殖的廚藝廠我去查報竟然跟台中有嘛生殖能源中心嗎是 好對生殖廚藝廠嘛現在欠少了一座啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4352.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4377.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
跟委員報告目前運作中的就是桃園生殖能源中心他生熟廚餘都可以處理一天135噸那個是我當局長的時候花包的我在桃園當過局長跟委員報告那台中市那一座廠是只有處理生廚餘的部分但目前他在規劃是不是也能夠添加一些熟廚餘那台中市現在非常努力在處理這個部分我們也協助台中市環保局面對這個議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4378.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4403.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
那另外已經花包中的有欄頭有100噸現在在上網招標中那大概兩年後會蓋好另外台南有一個160噸的高雄有一個150噸的也在規劃中那也可能會是在117年興建完成那個次長這個是在108年的時候農業部跟環境部對外公開的我跟委員報告一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4405.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4430.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
今天為什麼政策基於風險的管控要做一個落日如果你不做落日的話那個廚餘都跑到養豬場去了啦所以這些民間的在利用設施沒有量能收不到廚餘啦那今天政府已經拍板了一年的轉型期之後就落日所以市場已經看到這樣的一個商機那我們地方政府也看到這樣的在利用必須要新設所以環境部會來協助地方政府加速 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4431.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4447.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
這個政策要趕快落實因為目前進度是落後的啦那我們現在現在就是要再利用嘛 對不對日本最成功的是什麼就是飼料化 對不對我看前幾天有立委跟環境部還一起農業部有人去嗎去日本考察對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4448.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4465.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
我們農業部安排的是農業部安排那回來做了那個做了檢討報告了嗎怎麼去學習日本日本飼料化做得很成功是因為什麼他有飼料的集中處理處理廠對不對那台灣到現在還沒有我想日本能夠成功基本上除了料園第二個部分就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4465.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4489.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
他們在廚藝的分類做得相當不錯他們的家戶廚藝是直接進到垃圾場去的他們用的是事業廚藝還有食品廠的一個下腳料的部分那相關的這個部分我想我們都已經有一個內部的資料然後後續我想我們會參照這樣的一個精神來協助一些共同珍珠中心願意的話能夠轉型成為一個廚藝的飼料廠 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4491.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4513.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
就是我們如果學其他國家做的我跟委員補充報告一下喔日本他的家戶廚餘全部不分類直接送焚化爐這不是你要學的啦我們要學的是我們要讓我們的廚餘走在利用所以我們會走生殖能源設施剛剛委員關心的部分另外黑水門或者是堆毀的在利用這個是我們要鼓勵的我們不希望他都用焚化爐來處理廚餘 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4514.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4524.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
現在大概有三個嘛我們現在學的一個日本這個所謂的飼料化你們也去考察嘛對不對當然有人家好的地方我們現在站的就是至少至少有一個我們飼料化集中儲養這樣不行嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4526.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4552.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
我去查了沒有嘛這個可能要考慮那你剛剛一直在講了他的能源化他回料化這個老蔣我們都是可以學的就是人家成功我們盡快我們把這個做好那我們廚藝就減少嘛這是最根本的那我們時間再薄趕快做好不好那我剛剛提兩個都是非常急的喔怎麼樣讓廚藝可以運得出去我們要多幫忙讓這個團散業者問題也可以解決特別重要的學生營養餐不要上架好不好拜託一下好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4557.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4573.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
好 我們謝謝我們請楊昭偉來質詢謝謝主席 楊瓊瑜發言邀請部長跟次長兩位 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4586.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4615.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
同業部長還有環境部次長好 部長這一次我們中央災害應變中心為了防範非洲豬瘟所以我們宣布決議2027年全面禁止廚餘養豬並排除共同珍珠與環保飼料方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4616.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4622.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
如果說廚餘養豬的養豬戶要繼續那你必須要珍珠90度以上才能夠來養豬同時要裝設影像監視系統來定期的來做回報 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4633.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4648.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
這個政策允許緩衝期 也就是再使用一年所以本席首先要請教次長我們現在的推動是垃圾跟廚餘希望要分開 是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4648.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4668.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
是 我們繼續分類繼續分類垃圾跟廚餘必須要分開因為我們希望廚餘能夠走在利用廚餘走在利用非常好廚餘要走在利用好 所以部長你們兩位在這裡我們實質解決問題因為我們大概有六成六成是有養這個養豬者那麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4671.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4686.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
收起來再利用去養豬尤其有說因為我們的Odiyama日本的最好吃這個是全世界非常有名而且大家肯定的那我們的政策已經既定我們首先來討論要怎麼樣去解決這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4690.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4702.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
以我台中市為例我們努力的來處理這個問題處理問題但是我們現在所面臨到的問題也就是台中市我們的住戶大樓將近有8000多棟 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4708.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4725.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
將近有8000多棟那這些8000多棟原本多數都有養豬戶來處理來協助那少部分由這個清除公司廢棄物公司來做處理但是現在我們的政策是 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4727.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4748.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
不能不能再收幾乎我們的推動是這個方向所以我們希望的也是垃圾跟廚餘要分開 剛剛次長已經有說了所以在這樣的一個情況之下民間的業者事業費去清除公司他的量人也沒有那麼多那我們這些大樓要怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4749.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4761.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
要怎麼辦我相信台中市有這個問題所有像新北台北這個桃園台南高雄只要有大樓的縣市絕對會有這個問題那我們怎麼處理呢現在各縣市政府想盡了一切辦法配合中央所以我要請教在這個專案 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4775.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4792.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
緩衝一年的期間針對於要求地方政府配合我們的政策將這些大樓所必須運送要怎麼運送如果你全部堆給我們所有的清潔隊他的量能不夠人不夠車不夠我們要怎麼處理請教農業部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4798.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4813.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
環境部來說明好嗎好環境部說明好是家戶垃圾包括大樓這個部分那大樓的部分過去是用清除業者來幫忙清理的這個部分它的垃圾我們要走政治主義的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4814.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4837.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
我跟委員報告這裡面為什麼要這樣子分就是在地方政府垃圾水水灰徵收地方政府就收了水灰在台北市是水袋徵收是用垃圾專用袋來處理台中市為例他是水水灰徵收那如果是公寓大廈大樓的部分自己找雨清清理的他就不用水水灰繳清除處理費用給地方政府他是自己委託 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4838.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4856.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
清除業來清除的同樣的現在這些廚藝已經不能夠再養豬了他過去委託乙清的時候他的廚藝分開送到養豬場他那個幾乎沒有處理成本因為他把他集中了但是他量能不夠啊你家以前六成是給養豬戶去處理啊你來倒三缸嘛那現在量能不夠 請說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4858.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4875.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
他現在因為沒有養豬場願意去公寓大廈大樓去收這樣的廚餘了所以他已經就必須要把這樣的廚餘交給可以再利用的地點那目前我們在禁止廚餘養豬的期間是送到環保局指定地點不收處理費用不收處理費用 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4875.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4892.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
所以本市要請教是你說叫環保局指定地點來收那我現在環保局的量能都已經飽足了那我必須這是運送要一年的時間我必須我的車子我的人力都會增加那怎麼辦呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4894.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4916.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
我剛講的是在禁止處於養豬就是到今年年底還有15天這段時間是要送到環保局指定的地點不收處理費用但是明年1月開始有一年的緩衝期是可以繼續4月處於養豬的所以公益大廈他們如果能夠找到養豬業者以台中市來講他的養豬業者是繼續可以來養豬的 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4918.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4936.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
目前台中市沒有禁止廚餘養豬所以在這種情形之下有一年的緩衝期但這段時間環保局必須要做很多事情第一個他要加速他的再利用設施目前的堆肥或者是黑水門台中市那種規劃他的外埔的那個生廚餘的那個是處理生廚餘的部分嗎他會繼續他不是熟食啊 對 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
4941.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
4947.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
我更正一下部長公寓大廈也不能夠處理養豬在這種情況之下所以次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
4948.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
4973.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
我就讓你講你明明中央規定我們所有的大樓是不可以再去處理養豬你剛剛講的完全錯誤不是我更正一下你要更正你今天到立法院來你講的連你自己宣布的政策你通通錯誤你讓我們地方政府要依據哪些所以本席強烈要求台中市政府環保局非常清楚他知道該怎麼做 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
4974.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5002.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
什麼台中市政府該要怎麼處理我現在本席就告訴你 我們的困難點你八千多棟的八千多棟的這個大樓它現在處於是不可以給養豬屋不可以 對呀所以剛剛跟你講的完全錯誤怎麼有這樣子的情況是你自己制定的政策耶你還完全錯誤我現在聽你的話聽你的政策 我碰到問題我光光這八千多棟我要去收 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5004.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5027.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
我要禁運我怎麼辦我的清潔隊有這樣的量人嗎民間業者有這樣的量人嗎你中央政府一直神功下來的政策我們全力配合但是你要告訴我我不夠的時候至少你要補人補錢補車子給我啊你通通都沒有還政策錯誤的離譜自己我跟委員報告一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5028.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5053.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
如果我們的公益大廈如果繼續他們不繳不繳水費去收垃圾的話那清潔隊員不需要服務他是要委託民間的已清繼續去幫他做過去的方式也是這樣市長我們是要解決問題如果要清潔隊收的話本期理性的告訴你問題中央政府告訴我們社區的家戶裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5055.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5062.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
這個廚餘現在是不可以去給養豬戶的 對不對是啊 所以剛剛你承認錯誤了吧你承認錯誤 我們繼續討論那這樣子下來 要誰去收 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5067.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5083.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
清潔都要去收跟委員報告他如果有繳垃圾有水水會徵收的話市政府會幫忙服務他如果沒有水水會繳的話他委託已清清理請問 請過去的模式市政府要去協助本行一開始的提問我環保局的量能已經飽和 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5085.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5108.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
我要增加這些觀光運跟收這個是一個很大的問題是 理解對不對你這一年多不是只有你剛才講的這15天是一年多365天加15天欸是380天欸很辛苦 你要解決問題很辛苦因為政策是你們定的沒有理由一個政策下來讓地方不知所措 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5110.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5134.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
不是只有台中市政府的問題各縣市政府的社區大樓都有這個問題我跟 可不可以跟委員報告一下本期具體建議喔既然政策是你們訂的那地方非常的痛苦有這個問題每一個大樓都打電話來服務處說沒人收我們怎麼辦不能沒人收我們是一個政府所以你們去研議方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5136.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5157.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
針對於社區大樓的廚餘不能給養豬戶的來飼養的時候那我們配合政府的政策這些收跟運的量能你們要怎麼樣去協助地方政府啊我跟委員報告這個才是重點嘛我可以說台中市環保局的做法嗎可以跟委員報告一下嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5158.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5173.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
我們要求各縣市政府他們必須要提供轄內可以協助產生源的量能包括以及清除業包括水回清除業市長你還真的是在雲中耶已經提出這個問題告訴你你首先第一個政策講錯第二個你認識到說是講錯了我們就要解決問題而不是你指令縣市政府縣市政府統統想盡了一些辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5187.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5200.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
想辦法要怎麼樣配合你中央所以本席剛剛提出的我們一個結論針對於社區大樓的廚餘沒有辦法現在我們包括到明年底不能給養豬戶來協處的時候這一些的青跟雲 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5206.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5220.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
到底要怎麼處理請你們專案去研議專案去研議 告訴我們方向縣市政府你要怎麼樣人補助他 車補助他怎麼樣配合你中央政府來真正的落實這些問題嘛 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5222.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5243.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
我們會跟地方政府共同你什麼時候給方案給我們你怎麼補助車補助人你要給人家將近380天我們要怎麼做多久時間告訴本席你們的方案怎麼做跟委員報告現在有沒有要補現在有沒有要補有沒有要補我們所有的縣市政府你們必須要用的你的車子你的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5244.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5261.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
你的費用有沒有要補 加護產生的垃圾請問有沒有要補 到你目前為止你的政策有沒有要補我們看地方政府他因地制宜所採取的方式好 因地制宜啊 我們需要請問到目前的政策有沒有要補地方政府收垃圾費 他就必須要解決廢棄物處理企劃的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5265.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5285.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
市長談到現在本強是誠意的希望你專案去研議當你的政策下來地方政府有困難的時候拜託拜託跟委員報告六都各自有因地制宜的做法其他做得好的我們希望台中可以學習請你解什麼台中可以學習台中的問題你要解決台中的問題台中市長要面對 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5290.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5298.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
市長今天我們是在解決民眾的問題不是政治話術請你好好的去研討請你去解決這個問題方案告訴本席那最後一個議題我要請農業部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5306.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5327.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
部長我們現在這個非洲中文解決了那麼現在依據我們的規定WOH就是說你在非洲中文最後一個案例完成之後清除後的三個月那麼可以來做申請像菲律賓我們在2023年1月份的時候拿到許可證那9月份開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5329.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5348.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
來運出 很高興但是我們已經完成了這些事情 請教如果依照WOH的這個申請的模式我們預計會在明年的2月份可以來做申請你會不會提出 像菲律賓來提出 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5350.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5365.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
我跟委員報告第一個部分我們必須向WOH在2月份我們會提出來然後提出來以後他們會做一些審查那審查如果同意讓我們恢復成非議區的話我們會立即再跟菲律賓去做申請 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5366.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5381.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
謝謝 第二個部分就是目前相關的這些這些生鮮的這些豬肉是不能外銷的但是加工加熱後的這些豬肉還是持續可以外銷的所以因為一開始本席就告訴你我們第一 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5382.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5405.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
發生的時候第一場我們在這裡也就針對所有肉品市場我們要怎麼樣保護他們均衡他們所以一個階段完我們繼續討論要怎麼樣讓他進進所以剛剛所說的我們預計在2月份的時候能夠給WOAH依照他的繳成流程相關規範我們來提出申請我們也希望競速 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5406.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5433.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
能够再拿到这个许可让我们的肉品市场可以继续往菲律宾这些来甚至全世界我们来做外销保护我们的肉品市场我们继续加油谢谢好 谢谢我们请郑天才委员请做巡谈 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5444.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5468.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
主席 各位委員 有請農業部部長跟環境部次長我們再請部長跟次長 謝謝兩位好如果從農業部農業部今天的書面報告的第二段 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5470.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5496.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
前面禁用廚餘養豬由中央立定前面禁止廚餘養豬之轉型最後期限最長不得超過一年也就是到明年115年的3月31日然後第三段就提到在轉型期間亦繼續使用廚餘之養豬場必須獲地方政府同意完成珍珠溫度級影像什麼什麼什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5497.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5525.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
方得以115年1月1日起使用4月除役如果光從這個農業部的報告裡面就看不到今天的狀況報告的主題2027年前面禁止除役養豬從你的書面報告裡面是看不出來的我必須要另外去看 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5527.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5553.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
這個環境部的所謂的當然農業部要提到第一階段跟第二階段是另外一個事情這裡面就環境部的就所謂的第二階段為116年1月1日除以前面禁止養豬所以這個今天的專題報告的專案報告的標題到底有沒有正確 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5556.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5578.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
沒問題啊是116年前面禁止催養豬這沒問題啊好我的是建議以後這個書面報告要把它其實是一開始就要寫清楚了不是農業部那個環境部的我也是要看到第五頁我要看到第五頁才知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5579.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5606.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
看到第五页才知道原来是116年1月1日处以前面禁止养猪所以这个部分很清楚光这个就一般民众一般养猪业者就很困难了好 我先请教一下这个部长在过去在过去几年 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5608.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5631.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
哪些縣市是就是前面禁止廚藥養豬的哪些縣市如果有的話是雲林台東花蓮金門嘉義連江台北市基隆市跟澎湖縣好所以在台灣已經有這麼多的縣市 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5633.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5661.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
在前面禁止除以養豬所以其他的縣市要前面也要禁止的話那就去了解他們過去是怎麼去從開始要禁止的前置階段是怎麼去因應 怎麼去處理就參考他們的模式 做法然後去執行現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5664.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5676.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
要到116要全面禁止養豬這個過程有做參考嗎我跟委員報告您講得非常好就是其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5678.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5706.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
廚藝養豬再利用許可是由地方政府發的所以地方政府他可以隨時公告他禁止廚藝養豬那中央只是綠定最後的一個期限在這個期限之前地方政府會根據地方政府本身的客觀的一個環境來決定他怎麼去做相關的一個處理那個部長你說的也沒有錯但是因為這個政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5708.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5734.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
刚才讲的那几个县市他们个别的县市做了这样的决定他们在做这个决定的时候他们会考量他们的实际的量能或者是实际的这些环保单位这个相关的这些设施他们去决定他们的时间要多长然后怎么去辅导 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5735.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5763.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
那現在是因為是由中央來決定時間是決定所以這個農業部跟環境部就要共同的去跟這些縣市來討論有討論過嗎我想我們中央持續的在協助地方在執行不管是在廚藝的轉型或者是在環境部負責的這些清運的處理我們中央都一直在協助地方政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5764.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5788.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
但是我要跟委員說明的就是所有的廚餘本身的相關的執行面的部分都是地方政府在執行的沒錯這是事實 他們是執行對 我們中央會來協助就是說相關的像廚餘養豬的部分你剛才說的有一些縣市本身它沒有廚餘養豬那一個非常重要的是它本身就沒有廚餘養豬戶或者是非常少 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5788.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5813.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
包括這一次在防疫的期間裡面就有四五個縣市政府也宣布說他要禁止廚藝養豬但是有些縣市他講了這句話以後他可能後面可能看到廚藝養豬的實際的情況他又覺得說應該可以延一年所以這個部分我想我們持續再跟地方政府再溝通再協調這個我個人是支持啦支持這個禁止廚藝養豬啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5815.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5845.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
这个我小时候就是这个我们家在部落的家跟在山上这个农田的家那个都有养猪了我们都是用那个都是用植物啊这个都是用植物都是那个我们那个阿美族的话不方便在这边讲所以这个部分其实是 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5846.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5875.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
要朝這個方向那既然定了這個時間就要想辦法去協助這些地方政府來去無論是環保的跟農業的這個共同的來去推動好 這個環境部次長就請回座那接下來我還是要這個回到災期上次有跟這個部長有提到 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5878.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5903.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
這個這樣的一個因為現在已經從9月23號10月23號11月23號12月了兩個多月了所以一直存在這個部分然後你們又沒有好好的去說明這個鄉親也說誤解我們就一直罵縣政府我們去說明也沒有用我的意思是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5904.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5924.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
你們要對光復的鄉親不是只有針對這個不是只有針對這個所有錢人不是只有針對這個農田的所有錢人你要讓整個光復鄉瞭解說你們打算怎麼做 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5926.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5936.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
对不对 不然一直骂县政府就叫县长去挖就如同之前叫我去马太安西医院社府的八爹要我去挖一样所以这个部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5938.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5962.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
我也請你們提供這些資料你們也做了說明但是光我知道沒有用啊所以你們要讓光復的鄉民知道我跟委員報告其實我們開了五場的說明會我知道 你們那個說明會是針對對 而不是只針對農民所有的鄉親都有參加第二個部分我們也發了很多問卷也大概收了六成左右所以這個部分其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5963.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
5981.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
农业部的立场我们一定会积极的协助那个说明会都是只有主要是这个佛祖阶那一带的乡亲没有没有我们五个地不是只有佛祖阶的不是你们在其他地方是谈别的我了解你们在谈在其他的 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
5982.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
5998.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
我們沒有別的事可以談 就是農地復原就是農地復原的事情而已啊部長 我們不是去爭論 我只是請你請你我沒有談別的 我就是談農地復原你要用書面 不用發什麼討論啊你用書面讓光復鄉的鄉親 書面就發給他們說你們打算這麼做 好不好我們也問了問卷啊 對 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6006.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6036.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
部長 我們很簡單就是你寫個你把這些書面的就發給不會發什麼錢嘛 好不好問卷是另外的你問卷不可能每一個不需要問每個鄉民嘛你問卷當然是針對農田所有人嘛對 農地所有錢人 是好不好了解 好謝謝接下來我們請鄭振前委員請做詢答 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6046.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6054.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
謝謝主席我想請向農業部陳俊記陳部長還有環境部的沈志修沈次長我們請陳部長跟沈次長 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6060.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6079.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
部長好上禮拜在質詢這相關議題的時候你那時候是坐著回答今天可以站起來我覺得挺好的那我想說因為上個禮拜我有特別問到一個問題就是說我們禁衛處於這個政策的時候決策之前應該有跟環境部有跨部會的一個溝通過對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6080.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6102.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
我們持續幾乎每個禮拜兩三次一直在溝通不管是在中央應變中心或是醫院部位的交流甚至於在行政院所有的政策擬定之前都有做溝通那因為我上禮拜我問了一個狀態就是說境外廚餘會產生很多的外部成本因為廚餘以前比方說去養豬那現在不能養豬之後的時候那可能會出現 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6104.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6120.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
轉嫁這些外部成本也許給了環境部也許給了地方政府那我那時候有請那個部長這邊去評估一下我們這外部成本到底有多高那你那時候是跟我講說你要再跟環境部這邊去討論那我不知道已經討論出結果出來了沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6123.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6143.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
主要的成本就是他如果不再處於養豬的話他會走到的是再利用的管道嘛那再利用的部分就包括堆肥或者是黑水門或者是生殖能源再利用這是一個目標嘛我們就目標很好了我覺得循環經濟很重要那能夠把堆肥去做有效的利用都是好事 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6143.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6170.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
的事情 不過我覺得在這過程當中我們看到很多的情況跟我們當時政策在想的有點不一樣那我們在想怎麼樣把這個政策把它落實的更為完善 更為優化一點點那我這邊先給你們看一個照片這是讀者投書出來的一個情況這政策其實還沒有正式上路然後沿街都是廚餘桶 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6171.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6195.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
那這個是發生在屏東的事情可是我相信這事情不會只有一個地方政府發生應該很多地方都會發生這個狀態那我想請教一下你讓我講完一下那我想請教一下這個部分就是說因為當時環境部部長曾經提到說我們每天的廚餘有2115噸工噸那他提到說就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6200.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6206.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
每一頓的處理費用大概是多少錢 可不可以請次長這邊回答一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6207.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6232.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
跟委員報告一下處理跟清運兩個加起來要看你後端使用的是什麼方式去在利用價錢會不一樣那現在業者也看到了這樣的一個商機他們投入之後如果那個在利用量能多的時候自然而然那個價格會下降那麼以目前的現況來看清運費用大概是3000塊是合理的加上處理的費用要看你後端的在利用模式就會不同 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6233.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6260.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
所以大概會是在2500、3000左右所以總共2500、3000還是處理費用2500、3000清運費用是另外算清運3000塊處理可能是3000多或者是到5000所以才會出現一個5000到8000這包括清運加處理所以8000你覺得是清運加上處理的費用8000塊是夠的對不對所以這樣算起來的狀態的時候大概每一年的狀態大概會在五、六十億左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6261.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6280.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
所以你覺得這是商機嘛對不對那我在想說因為之前我們曾經有過一個政策其實在2021年的時候那時候也曾經有過一小段時間的時候禁衛廚餘所以那時候其實有很多的廠商他們提出要成立真主中心可是呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6281.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6305.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
屏東為例來說的時候 當時有三家要申請結果沒有一家做 問題在哪裡我跟委員報告一下 珍珠中心部分待會部長會做說明我先就您這張圖來做說明好嗎好 這張圖是因為那個業者 餐飲業者他自己要 要洗鹹菜啦 鹹菜那個桶子裡面不是廚餘 是鹹菜 要洗的鹹菜他為了怕人家停車停在他的門口外面的 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6306.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6320.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
所以你知道這張圖是怎麼來的是不是環保局已經跟警察局去做起雨地然後確定打開裡面是鹹菜不是廚餘所以說這個部分的時候坦白說是來自於一個媒體的資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6321.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6340.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
所以譬如說這個媒體又在做不實報導你的意思是這樣子已經更正了已經更正了屏東縣已經更正了OK那我想說如果是這情況的時候那我另外要問一下因為剛剛就是你有特別提到比方說垃圾處理都是水費徵收嘛對不對那廚藥的部分以前也被認為是 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6341.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6353.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
垃圾的一部分所以都一樣隨水費徵收那如果說現在的時候你提到說要讓以輕業者去做處理的時候那我們怎麼樣在垃圾當中的時候把廚餘跟一般的垃圾分開 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6356.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6381.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
跟委員報告 那個乙清如果他去公寓大廈服務的時候那個公寓大廈的垃圾就不是清潔隊收了嘛 對不對所以他就不用在水會裡面去喊清潔會因為不能收了 那乙清 那個公寓大廈自己就要付錢給乙清那以前的乙清是他把廚餘的部分分類出來或自收物分類出來的部分 他是沒有收錢的所以是整體來說 如果整棟大樓的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6382.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6396.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
他就是選擇垃圾是自己處理讓以輕處理還是可是現在有些狀態是他只有廚餘廚餘喔他有些部分他只有處理廚餘垃圾其實還是市政府在做處理你知道這樣的情況嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6398.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6417.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
像這種情形的時候如果你的垃圾還是給市政府處理的時候市政府就跟你說垃圾清理清除處理費用是是應該要繳這個費用的那你的廚餘如果過去是因為有在利用的用途包括你的資源回收物大廈也會產生資源回收物啊他如果交給慈濟或者是民間的一些在利用的系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6418.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6441.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
那個清潔隊也不會幫他收我想請教一下那個次長這邊因為你提到說我們處於後續的一個循環經濟的運用的時候那目前有多少的一個案子是在我們的計畫當中因為這邊全國到時候處於都要由這樣的方式去處理那我們現在有多少的量能夠處理多少的量能這邊有沒有做一個評估 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6441.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6465.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
跟委員報告我們估計就是在禁止廚藝養豬的時期大概產生的廚藝量是1700多公噸一天1700多公噸那我們目前國內的再利用的量能大概有1100公噸所以事實上是有缺口的所以這段時間為什麼會有混化處理的原因在這個地方是在這一年在未來的這一年當中因為看到落日的所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6465.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6477.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
民間的處理業者願意投入再處理 再利用這個部分所以堆毀會增加 黑水門會增加也開始會有縣市在設這個生殖能源廠所以在兩年之內這個量會平衡 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6478.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6506.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
OK 兩年之內會平衡嘛OK 我們希望整個的一個堆肥的那個廚藝的一個處理其實能夠像你剛剛講到包括堆肥 包括黑水蒙包括我們的循環發電等等的狀態那我們希望真的能夠讓讓那個廚藝能夠真正發揮它給循環經濟當中我想這是一個我們也支持就是禁衛廚藝這樣的一個政策可是要怎麼把它做得更完善我覺得很重要不要變成說 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6508.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6520.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
當時配合我們農業部政策去做珍珠中心的養豬戶他們現在可能輸了然後可能變成是外部成本落到地方政府他們也輸然後農業部這邊又要給那個養豬戶他們那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6524.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6545.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
就是除以轉為一般飼料的補助金額我們希望由這樣的狀態不要變成三輸不要變成三輸而是大家都贏因為整個新政策讓大家都贏那我最後這邊我想問一下部長一件事情就是最近有一個狀態是提到了狂犬病 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6546.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6570.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
台灣其實很久沒有狂犬病那我想知道一下我們現在整個的狂犬病的一個防疫工作情況怎麼樣為什麼我會特別提到這個狀態因為之前我們看到所有狂犬病的狀態大家都在大安溪以南那麼最近開始出現到苗栗這邊有一些相關的案例當然不是人 可是是哺乳類動物 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6571.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6578.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
那我們要怎麼樣去控制狂犬病病毒的擴散可不可以請部長做一個簡單的回應 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6579.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6602.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
我跟委員報告現在目前狂犬病狗病沒有得到狂犬病這個必須要先聲明的現在目前狂犬病的病毒是感染在幼歡就是這些幼歡那現在擔心的是狗去捕捉了幼歡而感染的部分所以在這裡我想我們第一個部分會針對這些比較靠近山區的這個部分去做家長宣導 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6603.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6618.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
就是這些狗特別是在流浪犬的部分我們也會加強這些就是管理的部分家犬的部分我們都希望牠能夠就是出門的時候第一個打疫苗是一個最重要的你如果打疫苗的時候萬一 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6619.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6646.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
狗跟那個右彎有接觸的話它也不會被傳染到也不會擴散所以疫苗是一個非常重要的第二個就是管理的部分特別在山區的部分我們會加強相關的一個管理OK 因為我們希望說因為從1958年之後台灣其實就沒有狂犬病死亡的一個案例那我們希望這事情不要被捲土重來所以我們希望針對這部分能夠做一個比較好的一個管控好不好OK謝謝部長 謝謝好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6651.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6669.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
接下來我們請邱志偉委員請做詢答謝謝主席 是不是請農業部陳部長好 我們再請陳部長喂 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6676.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6705.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
部長 第一個問題請教您您知道日本一年入境的人數是多少人我告訴你 4000萬台灣一年入境的人數大概多少人我告訴你 800萬所以入境日本的人數是台灣的5倍那他們有很多機場 有很多港口他們所有的港口和機場 針對入境旅客 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6706.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6728.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
有沒有針對手提行李或者針對這個非洲豬瘟疫區來源國有做過任何手提行李的安檢我所瞭解是沒有沒有嘛陸軍人口是五倍那我們他們為什麼沒有最主要是我們的廚藝有直接進到我們的豬的衛生系統日本是經過 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6730.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6752.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
那個飼料化以後再進到裡面所以本身的這些風險會比較低你看 路徑是我們五倍而且他們沒有路徑的這個鎖立性的安檢所以代表他們做法正確的我們應該日本學習上個月我們組個團嗎 是貴部也有派同仁去環境部也派同仁去三個半小時深入討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6754.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6768.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
還有跟這個相關學者把整個日本的這個處理處理的系統做了很完整的介紹為全程參與為提出很多的問題我想農業部同仁回來有沒有跟您報告有 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6769.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6797.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
我們是不是就把日本那一套建立起來我跟你講我們現在現在就要參考日本的那個eco feed的一個辦法然後去做這個廚餘的飼料化的一個相關的規劃要有一個專責單位去推動對要有一個專案小組去推動把日本那一套建立起來啊那我們就可以高枕無疑為什麼因為不可能透過廚餘產生病菌然後變成這個非洲豬瘟的感染是第一個他們加護廚餘的減量 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6800.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6815.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
他們自己在這個所謂在烹煮食物的時候他們就量度為初了就是說你要吃多少他們就煮多少所以很少食物的浪費另外他們有一些加護廚餘的這個處理機或者乾燥機的補助大碗嗎 烏蛙 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6820.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6847.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
有些縣市比方說以前在南投在雲林在屏東針對家戶廚餘處理機你把它乾燥化把廚餘把它這個去水化它就變成一般廢棄物它就可以進焚化爐結果不會損害焚化爐對不對所以現在我有提案希望你們跟環境部在你們這個所謂應變小組裡面能夠編列預算就像這個經濟部有個節能措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6849.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6874.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
節煙能設備的補助比如說節煙能冷氣或冰箱的補助每年度都編列10億還是20億來汰換節煙能設備來增購節煙能設備以來我們是不是可以用一定的補助來提高國人在家戶使用廚餘處理機的意願讓每個家戶的廚餘量可以減少 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6876.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6899.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
這個部長您的看法是第一個我跟委員報告就是台灣的那個料理的習慣跟日本是不一樣的那我們現在跟環境部在共同推這種就是吃多少煮多少的這個部分就是等於我們的廚藝的減量這是非常重要的那第二個您剛才說的就是說廚藝機的部分其實在先前也曾經跟環境部做一些討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6900.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6919.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
那後來我們跟一些家庭在討論的過程中就算做了這些變成堆肥以後那臺灣本身不見得是堆肥喔它處理完它變一般的廢棄物喔對 那相對的在這個過程中因為我們臺灣的也許等一下環境部可以補充就是我們的廚餘的 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6921.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6942.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
我們是強調再利用那日本的家務廚餘是直接進到焚化爐去的這兩個的那個再利用的邏輯是不一樣的部分所以沒有辦法說百分之百不照他們沒有再利用那我們再利用的這個主要的目的是什麼我想整個廚餘再利用的部分只是去化廚餘嘛 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
6943.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
6965.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
你是去化廚餘嘛去化廚餘你當作一般世界飛機物處理也是一種處理方式不過再利用利用的好的話其實它本身就是一個剩餘之源它可以真正的產生那個價值它不是為了去化而去化這樣子你要再利用啊要有科學的方式是也有安全的方式低風險的方式對就所謂Eco-feed是 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
6966.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
6977.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
所以你家務的部分沒有那事業非企務的部分呢不用包括這個團散或者這個他們餐廳或者是相關的這個團體裡面他們有明確的整個流程 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
6978.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
6997.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
把這個收集起來然後在專用的這個特殊的這個廠商裡面去做分區分區之後做Ecofit對 這個就是我們的努力的目標不是說兩三年這幾年才有的他們已經行之二十幾年了所以他們高枕無憂他們不需要派那麼多人力在邊境做這個手提行李的檢查 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
6999.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7027.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
所以把日本這一套建立起來要多久時間我想我們現在已經開始在做規劃那我們初步是希望說我們先用一個其中的共同珍珠中心去把它做轉型變成一個只收事業廚餘或其他的食品下腳料然後變成這種eco-feed這樣的一個產品那這個部分我想我們已經在做了共同珍珠中心那你處理事業廚餘對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7029.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7038.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
还有一些食品的下饺料的部分还有一些群内的下饺料果菜公司那种好 你说事业属于比方说这个夜市的小吃单算不算事业属于 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7040.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7061.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
我第一個部分我想後續的部分我想我們會請續產試驗所還有我們也跟台肥做溝通那台肥也很樂意進場來共同努力這個目標所以你要讓大家知道什麼叫事業處理定義是什麼要很明確這個我想環境部有非常明確的一個定義讓大家都了解了解那家戶處理怎麼處理事業處理怎麼處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7064.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7079.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
二分法家戶廚餘你要減量你可以用所謂的這個廚餘處理機你可以透過補助提高這個家戶的意願每一家戶按照他的這個食物的用量有不同容量的廚餘處理機 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7080.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7108.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
把廚藝減量那事業廚藝的部分你怎麼樣把它有效的做集合然後去處理然後EcofitEcofit還比現在的飼料還更便宜對不對對也節省養豬戶的飼料成本這是很好的做法我一樣說到現在好像我們已經慢了日本二十幾年 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7109.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7130.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
那我再請教你最後一個問題整個系統建立起來大概要多久如果變成類似日本的ECOFIT我想至少要三年兩年到三年的期間那如果說利用現有的共同政治中心的話應該兩年應該可以做得起來政治中心是一個過渡性的方案你最後還是要學日本那一套對 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7132.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7158.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
日本如果他沒有專利授權的話應該可以馬上就可以把這個整個制度引進過來嗎對 他有現有的設備是可以做引進的你如果沒有什麼專利什麼的不需要授權你可以專利 你可以引進馬上把這個制度把它建立起來你三年之內我們就不怕有什麼非洲豬瘟的問題了因為變成一個安全的這個Eco fit而且減少成本最重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7160.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7185.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
而且我們需要每個旅客入境的時候都要有鎖定行李的安檢這也是會增加一些旅客的不便對 如果禁止廚藝養豬這個政策後續落實的時候那相關的這些邊境的壓力就會變小因為最主要就是含肉製品如果進到廚藝系統會造成一些問題所以這也是我們共同努力的目標所以這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7187.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7214.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
日本的做法值得我們借鏡我已經很具體的提供你這些做法而且這些相關的程序那天是三個承辦科的科長農林水産省花很長時間做很詳細的介紹這個雖然是日文的資料我想你們一定有辦法變消化吸收變成我們我們已經成立一個專案小組現在在做這樣的所以您說是三年三年就把日本那一套建立起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7215.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7235.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
包括那個廠最主要是建廠比較慢技術的導入比較快建廠我覺得你只要有一個專業小組推動的話建廠也不是太大困難三年已經很寬裕了我希望說就按照您所說的三年就把日本那一套全部引進那我們有Ecofit然後加護廚也減少 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7237.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7263.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
不過最重要就是我們也會在這段時間去了解這個因為你變成ecofeed以後市場也要接受所以這樣的一個飼料配方也要讓我們的養豬戶能夠習慣跟使用我想這個也是要共同去做的這個時候就開始去做調查對我們現在已經在做這個部分日本也有很多養豬戶啊日本也有很多養豬戶他們可以用ecofeed可以接受代表說台灣應當也可以接受所以這個時間你們應該去做一些survey |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7264.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7284.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
會 我們會來做像日本大概只有6%在用這個就三年時間我們就要把邊境把這個所有的這個廚藝的問題全部徹底解決透過減量 加護理減量透過世界廚藝的這個ECOFIT你有把握嗎 三年時間我覺得三年應該可以做得到就跟日本完全一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7286.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7313.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
沒有 日本的沒有辦法我們可以參照日本這樣的Eco-free的部分所以我們把我們的廚藝的部分能夠再利用包括現在的生食能對不對因為我們台灣的廚藝再利用跟日本的系統是不一樣的那你贊不贊成跟環境部共同編列預算來補助每一家戶去購買這個所謂家戶的補助我覺得這個還要內部討論因為這個部分可能有不同的看法所以我們還會再跟環境部一起討論環境部要講一下環境部講一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7314.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7335.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
委員你講到那個廚餘的處理機的部分那廚餘的產生源將來如果不能夠把廚餘再養豬的時候他一定會衍生成本出來但是他在這個處理的過程當中他把80%的水分把它去掉了他的垃圾需要處理的那個廚餘量就被乾燥以後減量很多他省下了處理的費用 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7336.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7358.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
那個對他來講購買這個處理處理機就已經是划算了但現在有些家務主動的自主性的去買處理機我們都樂觀其成那至於要不要每個家務去補這個真的需要再評估評估什麼因為你在處理的過程當中你已經把水分乾燥你就減量了你就省下了將來處理的處理費用了 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7360.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7380.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
對啊 那你就可以幫一般的就是我們的一個選擇啦但是要不要用政府的方式去補助這可以再評估啦你要提供一些誘因啦我覺得你要減量就是政府要像節能的這個節能家電補助也是政府編定預算去補助啊可是他沒有很大的這個動力來把這個家電變成節能的 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7382.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7402.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
因為你換了節電加電 你這當然就減少能源嘛會節電嘛那你這個給它補助之後 你的垃圾也就減量了你的廚藥就減量了是不是 我覺得應該可以跨部會環境部跟農業部應該一起研究我希望這個應該政府要編定預算來鼓勵媒家戶能夠有自己的這個廚藥處理機謝謝好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7410.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7429.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
接下來我們請張家俊委員請做詢答 謝謝主席我想請這個陳部長還有次長請兩位 謝謝沈次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7432.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7434.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
部長 我想要再一次跟您確認說從什麼時候開始會全面禁止廚餘養豬116年1月1號 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7441.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7446.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
1月1號我必須在這裡讚許你說從今年10月開始爆發之後我們不斷的向您呼籲一定要全面禁止出於養豬也很感謝你從善如流能夠尊重然後聽取養豬戶的建議來協助保護養豬產業我想整個養豬產業聽到這件事情也非常的高興我也想接下來請問一下沈次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7471.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7495.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
那現在目前有關於廚餘去化目前台灣有哪些廚餘去化的方式呢是目前的處理的方式就是走再利用的方式是我們最鼓勵的那目前有再利用的方式包括傳統的或快速的堆回或者是黑水門的再利用或者是生殖能源的熱能的一個再利用那哪一種是兩位最看好的呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7496.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7525.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
最快可以在這一年當中趕快把這個缺口補上的呢因為生殖能源廠的設置大概需要二到三年那目前有三個縣市往這個方向在規劃已經設的就是有兩個市一個是桃園一個是台中那未來會有南投以及台南跟高雄會加入生殖能源的投入所以未來的廚餘去化他們會等於是處理大部分嗎他們能夠處理多少呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7526.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7551.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
要看這個市場的趨勢像現在走養豬場是因為它的成本最低所以現在有六成的廚餘都跑到養豬場但基於風險的管控我們落日就一年了嘛那以後就禁止廚餘養豬了嘛所以再利用設施就會上來那這樣子我想要請問一下那個你有準備要補助這些縣市政府蓋這些處理的 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7552.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7570.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
除於多元的在利用的跟委員報告在利用設施將來會收到處理的費用不管堆毀也好或者是黑水門處理也好產生源使用者附會他就必須要跟處理垃圾位處理一樣的方式目前給回收跟清除處理業者來處理處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7571.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7597.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
我舉一個例子啊我舉一個例子因為你們要處理的不只是你說他會賺錢等等但是呢前端你要先把它去化你才能夠你才能夠解決垃圾問題這是一個國家級的問題喔也絕對不是農業部或你環境部的問題這是一個很全面的問題我就先舉例假設蓋一座標準的廚餘資源化處理廠不管你用什麼方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7598.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7614.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
假設是2億或者5億那要落實一縣市一處理廠全台灣23個縣市全部蓋好那大概頂多啦如果抓5億下去算的話頂多100億那次長花100億可以解決全台灣的廚餘問題同時守護 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7619.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7630.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
兩千多億的這個養豬產業鏈這筆投資對於國家來說算不算是划算呢 跟委員報告現在已經存在的量大概就有一千一百多噸 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7631.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7648.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
的一個再利用量包括民間的堆毀廠不管是傳統的或快速堆毀花銷那政府其實民間可以做的事情我們樂見民間來投資來興建所以你沒有打算鼓勵他們他們已經在做了他自然而然就會有有這樣的一個合理的利潤 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7650.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7669.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
那我再講一下就是這個末端處理啊就剛剛我看到其他委員也在問這也是我相當關心的因為在雲林縣我們在111年就率全國率先全國推動家用廚餘機的補助計畫那我不曉得說次長有沒有看到成效呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7669.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7680.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
跟委員報告雲林它禁止廚餘養豬但它主要的廚餘都送到南亞南亞再利用而且我必須要講你既然講了這個南亞再利用這個其實數據會說話南亞廠每天處理60公噸的這個廚餘那到現在已經處理了56000公噸的廚餘變成了32萬包的有機肥料叫雲蓋肥這也是農業部認證的 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7696.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7709.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
那這就是大家整天掛在嘴邊的循環經濟最好的模式啊所以也希望說環境部包括農業部大家應該把這個模式可以鼓勵其他縣市假設他們有廚餘去化問題的鼓勵他們趕快來執行嘛那我講的這個家用廚餘機的補助計畫我也希望說環境部主要是環境部來因為我覺得如果這筆錢叫農業部來出這沒意思嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7726.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7754.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
農業部他是要顧好養豬業啊除離去化是你環境部的問題應該是說除於量是可以減少的那這個部分對於後端不管是焚化爐燃燒等等都很有幫助甚至還可以減少這個垃圾車的一些麻煩的工作那為什麼不把它納入你現在不是有一個什麼淨零綠生活計畫嗎能不能把除於居補助納入這個環境部的計畫之中呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7755.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7780.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
鹽土減量是一個好的方法那我們會來鼓勵啦但是因為垃圾的處理費用是由地方政府所以你的意思就是說我們環境部一毛都不出我今天就是來這裡說說話然後一毛不拔沒有打算要關心這個廚餘去化的問題大型的處理廠你也沒有打算補助小型的廚餘機你也沒有打算補助你今天就是來湊人數嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7783.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7811.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
當然不是啊 是嗎不是湊人數 是委員邀請我們來我們來這邊專案報告的所以你們今天來專案報告就是說這個廚餘再利用跟你們環境部沒什麼關係不是 小錢也不花 大錢也不花到底你們是在做什麼好 沒關係 你先繼續在旁邊那個部長 我想要請問一下大痞鄉雲林大痞鄉有一個別稱是什麼 您知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7813.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7836.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
他的特色農產品是什麼你知道嗎?鹹菜對 非常準確就是台灣菜有一道菜叫做鹹菜那裡面放的就是我們大脾香這個鹹菜也是我們台灣鹹菜的故鄉那你知道全台灣有多少酸菜的生產量是在大脾製造嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7837.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7865.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
我覺得自打應該六七成以上是大概有八成有18萬噸的這個產量那您知道每年大概有多少產值嗎這個我沒有去統計我不瞭解大概是將近5億4.8億元那不管是產值還是產量雲林縣大坪鄉都被稱為是台灣酸菜的故鄉可以說是當之無愧那我想要請問部長是不是能夠在 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7866.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7892.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
我們大闢鄉做一個酸菜專區因為呢它的這個製作的過程我想您應該也相當了解就是要加鹽啊然後要脫水啊用重物壓出這個多餘的水分那如果不把它統一處理這個高鹽分的水的話可能會造成農地演化所以鄉公所在2003年就成立了這個專區但是呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7894.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7903.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
希望農業部能夠支持他們這個整個產業的永續發展能夠同意他們讓這些汝水再利用 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7905.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7924.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
我跟我們報告因為檢查這些他炸出來的東西因為高鹽分的部分那您剛才講的專區其實專區不是重點是怎麼樣把這些剩炸出來的這些水做有效的再利用的部分因為他本身如果不好處理的話他進到農田是一定是污染農田的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7925.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
7938.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
所以這個部分其實我在幾年前就一直蠻關心這個議題然後看看有沒有辦法找到一些能夠將這個鹽分跟水分脫離的這個基礎沒錯 這是正確的方向所以台大的研究團隊就提出申請了 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
7941.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
7960.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
提出申請然後之前農業部都推給環境部今天環境部也在這裡但環境部他已經回文說申請是法性跟行政程序等細節應該洽農業部釐清但是農業部到目前沒有辦法回應台大團隊跟公所提出的申請我也希望說部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
7961.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
7968.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
今天既然在這裡您也支持說要這個大坪的酸菜專區然後要支持這個產業的話是不是能夠請農業部儘速的輔導他們趕快讓他可以上路否則這個台大的這個團隊跟公所 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
7980.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
7988.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
遲遲沒有得到回應然後呢而且我看到監察院也早在104年的調查報告裡面就寫說地方長年無法處理中央農政主管機關沒有給予及時跟必要的協助是不當的要求你們要研擬喔如何協助他們如何補助他們如何擴充處理設備強化減量跟再利用那部長我是不是可以拜託您喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8009.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8026.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
支持這個大品香酸菜永續經營的這個想法跟處理的方式呢不過我跟委員報告我們先處理這個技術面怎麼樣把這些酸菜水能夠經過一些技術把它做成鹽分分離這個如果處理好了以後現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8027.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8048.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
台大跟公所他們有申請學術個案的研究那他已經有非常好的一個成效所以他們送案子進去但是你們都一直沒有給他回應那拜託部長了解可以嗎我來親自了解以後然後看看那個技術面是可不可以做一些移轉那技術如果可行然後可以移轉的話後面就比較好辦啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8049.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8064.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
是 所以我在這裡拜託部長包括環境部我們不要再推來推去我們盡速的讓它落實下來讓大坪成為一個台灣酸菜的故鄉之外也可以環境永續經營 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8067.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8080.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
好 謝謝這是一個非常好公部門跟學術部門跟產業一起結盟怎麼樣能夠計轉所以也謝謝部長要跟張家俊委員繼續專案來討論 謝謝接下來我們請呂玉玲委員請做詢答 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8093.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8117.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
謝謝主席 請陳部長跟我們環境部的長賜我們再請兩位 謝謝部長 長賜為了防範非洲豬瘟的疫情再入侵我們農業部在12月4號就已經宣布我們的廚藝逐步的退場尤其是我們家庭的這個廚藝部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8120.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8130.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
明年開始就已經停止收了那2027年的話我們的失業廚餘會全面的禁止但是這個整個我們的廚餘的狀況的話會 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8133.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8139.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
牽動著我們整個養豬戶產業的結構還有考驗著我們國內廚餘的這個去化的量能那尤其是以事業廚餘來講的話那你們知道嘛他們的那廚餘現在我們不收的話他們一桶現在一桶的話他們大概要負擔的這個清運費大概是50塊到100塊未來的話那清運費可能會1500到2000那這只是清運而已像我們常識講的如果送去 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8161.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8178.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
生殖中心或者堆肥或者是这个黑水盲这个部分的处理的话可能又增加更多的费用那所以现在整个我们的逐一的处理的这个量能我们不能完全依靠说 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8180.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8195.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
业者来未来会增加这些设备而应该以我们公部门自己就要在建制好是所有处理这个生殖中心或者是说我们的去化堆肥发电的这些设备来处理这个整合厨艺是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8196.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8214.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
那我先请问一下这个长测那你刚刚一直讲的你都知道这些都是衍生出来的费用但是你又说产业他们自己看到商机自己会来设置这个厂争取这个生意但是你要知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8215.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8240.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
未來最後他們的商機是都跟我們業者也就是說我們事業廚藝的部分或者是餐廳部分他就會跟他們收費收費的話這些費用未來就會衍生到我們消費者的身上是不是所以這個要你注意到的最末端的還是消費者最末端的還是消費者所以我們現在如果沒有收事業廚藝的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8241.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8258.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
未來他們這清運公司業者也好或者是說他們處理中心也好未來這些費用都是跟事業這個餐廳的這部分來收取對不對跟委員報告一下以桃園為例桃園目前的處理主要是進到我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8259.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8281.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
生殖中心它是發電的是 那有一天可以處理135噸嘛那另外民間有一個廠像虹橋它過去是跟市政府這邊有合約大概是有20噸左右可是它因為這段時間禁止處理養豬它每天已經收到100噸了這個就是我所謂的當你政策落日明確的時候業者自然而然他會提升他的注意量 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8282.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8310.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
我们这些设备第一个我们民间的设备跟我们公家部门的设备都建制完成这是我们要准备的才能够让我们的厨余去去化对不对但是未来会衍生的事业厨余餐厅等等这些单位他们的成本问题这些成本的话未来就会到我们消费端这边来处理未来就物价又高涨了跟委员报告因为我们为了能够继续吃到台湾猪啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8310.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8326.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
是基於風險考量所以做了這樣的一個政策拍板也經過大家討論的結果做成這樣的一個決定之後所以環境部不要一直推責任不是推責任 自然而然處於自然而然處於就必須要採取其他的方式處理所以你們今年的補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8327.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8356.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
厨艺因为我们现在禁止收到年底对不对12月底嘛所以你们要补助各地方政府明年的话缓冲期的话还有一年可以去收厨艺他们就会再去负担去收厨艺但是2027年之后就没有了这未来我们要考虑的还有养猪产业还有我们整个生殖还有我们的整个事业餐厅整个循环链里面我们都要考虑进去才能够让我们这个部分能够大家都不要面临着未来 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8356.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8385.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
物價又高漲還是我們哪個缺口沒有處理好的話衍生出未來很多不好的情形發生好不好那接下來我們就請問一下部長那尤其是我們特別講到我們廚餘現在的總量量的話本來是有2115公噸的廚餘其中我們的可以處理的廚餘部分有1324剩下的部分的話791都是做我們的堆肥各方面的那未來的話你們說你們處理的 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8387.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8409.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
建置一些生殖中心也好或者民間處理的一些最終處理廠也好這些未來我們可以處理到2529噸就是看到我們前面的數字的話等於增加一倍跟我們現有的生殖中心或者堆肥中心這個我們有沒有具體的我們要如何增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8412.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8439.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
有環境部來說明那這個量能的增加是我們現在選項剛有講的民間會有所謂的堆灰廠或者是這一個黑水門會繼續投入這個產業那政府這邊會規劃大型的生殖能的設施目前已經有南投台南跟高雄現在我說會增加一倍的量是我們要處理增加一倍的量是預估的嘛那我們要增加的這些設施具體的設施呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8440.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8466.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
這些設施都是由地方政府他們評估他們的期程環境部還是講說是地方政府提出來的設施謝謝那我就是希望地方政府要做的事情我們環境部也應該給予補助讓他們來做你不要只有督促你只做到督促沒有去輔導他們去執行去建置這些場設才來徹底的解決我們最終處理出獄的問題好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8467.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8471.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
那接下來請我們部長 那我講到這邊的話我們最大宗的廚餘都是供應給我們的黑豬的養豬戶來使用那現在的話 未來的話 廚餘如果在2027年全面禁用的話黑豬的養豬戶負擔最沉重的 衝擊最大的就是我們的黑豬的養豬戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8489.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8504.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
因為黑豬的話他比白豬的話飼養的週期是12個月到15個月白豬只要6個月那現在的話如果沒有廚藥的話未來口感是不是會比較差或者是說成本提高這問題這個還有他們的週期養豬的週期問題我們部長這邊有沒有進一步的給我們黑豬養豬戶的一個信心喊話 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8511.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8532.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
謝謝委員事實上我們以農業部的立場我們一定會讓我們的黑豬產業永續的在台灣這邊土地持續的這樣進行下去但是一個蠻重要的就是過去用廚餘的養豬的方式農民比較沒有習慣用飼料的部分所以我們會成立一個輔導團隊然後我們已經有開發了一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8533.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8554.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
就是黑豬專用的這些飼料這些飼料成本比一般的飼料還便宜那我們希望說這個階段先讓他們用這樣的一個飼料的配方第二個部分我們會再去加速這些飼料配方的一個改善那第三個部分比較中長期的部分就是說我們的黑豬品種不一定一定要養到15個月啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8554.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8575.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
然后我们是不是可以有12个月就12到15一个是土黑猪一个是大黑猪大黑猪大概一年土黑猪大概13到15个月就还是有那个周期对我们希望说能够比较缩短因为用饲料化的一个处理它的生育周期应该是可以缩短的所以这个部分我们尽量的让它的利润能够确保 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8575.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8599.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
對 利潤確保是成本反應的問題尤其是部長我們的續產試驗所有研發出來專門給黑豬吃的飼料這個飼料的話可是很昂貴啊你要他轉型你就要輔導他不要讓他無法生存影響他的生計未來看不到黑豬這是不好的啦所以他們飼料這麼昂貴他們的飼料大概每頭豬要3000元左右對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8601.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8610.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
我們的那個敘事所的這些飼料的部分大概比外面的飼料應該是便宜將近差不多一半吧你是說一千五而已嗎 對 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8611.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8619.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
不是3000是1500一頭飼料跟一般的飼料比我請我們續展事業所所長我針對黑豬的黑豬的因為你們研發出來這個飼料很關鍵你說如果是你們這個專門黑豬吃的飼料的話然後一般的大黑豬的話可以縮短為9個月而已那土黑豬的話可以縮短到13.5個月這對我們黑豬產業的話是有幫忙的但是飼料時很昂貴那部長說可以減少一半不是3000元一頭不是3000元是1500嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8643.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8667.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
大概減少每公斤大概減少一到兩元左右一到什麼飼料的成本跟一般的飼料一到兩元飼料成本一頭豬可以省多少錢我們一公斤的飼料大概是11塊到12塊左右以一頭豬的計算方式一頭豬的生產成本大概是4000多塊左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8668.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8684.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
是啊 所以還是很昂貴啦所以我希望說在這部分我們除以去化之後全面禁止之後可不可以針對黑豬這個部分我們的飼料給予補助讓他們用常態性的補助給他們不要說有限定一年而已好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8686.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8704.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
我想以農業部立場我們希望他用飼料然後飼料的部分我們去確保他的利潤就是可以減少他的成本沒有 我想我們沒有辦法在這邊承諾說一直持續補下去我覺得產業要進步我們會想辦法跟黑豬產業一起努力讓他的利潤能夠做確保 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8705.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8732.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
讓他的成本降低我們剛剛已經前面講了很多飼養期他比白豬多了一倍的時間養一頭黑豬可以養兩頭白豬他成本就已經很高了何況他現在如果用你專門為黑豬準備的飼料又比白豬的飼料貴了一倍以上所以這個我們可以對飼料的補助我們可以給他們常態性的話降低他們的成本降低他們的整個產業才能永續生存發展好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8733.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8754.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
我想我們會努力的跟產業去做這樣的一個動作保障他們永續的發展我們一定讓這個產業一定永續發展還有另外一個問題部長就是我們廚藝在分類上面有分動物型的肺渣跟我們植物型的肺渣那部長有說過因為這個植物型的肺渣 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8754.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8774.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
不會影響非洲豬瘟 所以可以繼續用但是你們發給我們所有養豬戶的公文裡面在第5點第5條裡面就有提到說除以養豬場的經過補助轉型飼料後不得再以動物性跟植物性的廢棄物來餵養 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8776.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8804.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
是不是你們的發給人家公文是這樣寫的但是你剛剛有說過植物型的廢紮廢棄物是可以繼續用的那你發給他們的公文為什麼這樣寫沒有 我要跟委員報告一個部分是在轉型期間一個部分是在轉型以後2027年以後呢那2027年以後因為不能在自己的場域裡面去做徵組不管是植物性的或動物性的因為你一旦讓他同意在 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
8805.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
8831.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
他自己場域蒸煮的時候他有可能 你們補助之後的話他場域裡面所有的蒸煮設備都一定要拆除嗎那拆除之後他不能還不能用這個植物性的廢料嗎他不能自己蒸煮他如果說用其他的蒸煮去做蒸煮以後那是OK的所以你是考慮說因為植物性的廢料還是需要蒸煮還是需要蒸煮嗎如果他不用蒸煮呢他自己攪拌就可以餵食呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
8832.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
8850.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
沒有 它如果不蒸煮它可以自己去養沒問題啊但是那就可以用植物性的廢料是不是植物性廢料是可以一直是可以的一直是可以可是你公文發下去是不可以沒有 那個是在後面在既有的蒸煮設備裡面都不能用拆除後可以用 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
8851.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
8880.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
拆除以後你要用植物性料源因為是業者特別拿這公文來問我所以我盡量請部長你要釐清這個問題我想我們會再跟業者說明清楚我們發這個公文是說在自己的蒸煮廠不管是動物的植物的不能在自己的蒸煮廠蒸煮這是一件事情但是你的蒸煮廠拆除以後植物性的料源你可以從外面外面直接進去裡面不做蒸煮那是OK的 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
8880.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
8892.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
所以植物性的廢料豆渣都可以繼續使用對這個公問可不可以請你們再發給業者我覺得這沒問題 這可以吧澄清一下好不好我們把它弄把它釐清啦好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
8894.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
8916.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
好 謝謝非常感謝我們李玉玲委員所提出的這個行政單位農業部跟環境部我們要請你們政策下來那麼我們在執行民眾地方政府配合的時候請你們務必要把你們的政策制度指令 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
8917.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
8934.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
方法清楚才不會讓地方的民眾一件一件一直提出來那針對剛剛李玉玲委員所提出的也請務必趕快去理清楚那也將方式給經濟委員會給我們李玉玲委員謝謝接下來我們請賴樂龍委員請做詢答好謝謝召委我先請那個沈次長我們再請沈次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
8948.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
8952.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
好 次長好我先請教一下現在整個廚餘的去化的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
8953.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
8980.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
那我們每日可以增加每日產生2115噸那當然本來進入到養豬這個部分有家戶跟事業那家戶593這個已經禁止了嘛這個禁止那事業的部分我們有一些落日的部分嘛那731噸的一日計算1噸到廚藝養豬但是現在也傳出了有一些不管是幸運上處理上這個部分環境部怎麼來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
8982.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
8999.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
明年1月1号起有一年的时间是缓冲期这个部分的731吨的事业厨艺其实是可以继续养猪的对 但是现在有传出了很多因为可能不管是价格的提升或者行营上面等等它变成了有面临到的一些困难这个环境部怎么来协助 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9000.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9020.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
目前的情況是因為現在是全部禁止處於養豬的所以在這兩個禮拜之內到年底之前這段時間是最辛苦的各縣市環保局都在因應這個部分那目前是因為已經有一些養豬場他接受農業部的輔導轉型他就決定明年1月1號開始他不再 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9020.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9030.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
吃廚餘了所以他也決定這個時候就不要再去收運了是因為這樣造成的原因那在明年1月1號開始繼續廚餘養豬的部分現在已經有270幾個廠提出申請要裝智慧監控 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9036.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9060.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
那我們設定他應該就是要繼續養的那這個部分他會繼續服務這樣的一個產生源所以明年的部分可能這個壓力會減輕那我們現在地方這種主要因應都是在這15天之內那這15天的問題可以做解決嗎跟委員報告這15天各縣市都有不同的方式在處理現在我們就請各縣市環保局必須要提供轄內可以協助清運的量能 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9061.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9089.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
主要就是以及清除業者或者是現在有一些貨運行他的車輛也可以來市長我要問的是環境部可以協助所有各地的環保局把這件事情處理妥善處理完畢可以嗎沒有問題吧因為環境部有跟各縣市環保局每個禮拜都有兩次在協調所以這件事情在這兩個禮拜內會把它圓滿處理都有在處理圓滿處理完畢是希望好我不是希望是一定要不要讓這件事情變成另外一個風波 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9090.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9107.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
那當然明年1月1號之後又會有另外一個新的那我希望這件事情讓環保署要展現出你們的跟地方政府溝通協調能力把這件事情處理得完善好不好好可以了那另外其他的部分其實不管是其他的養豬除以的養豬以外的有791 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9111.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9130.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
791噸然後包括現在進養的這個1384甚至於有些如果他不走那一條方向的話那未來的這個從明年開始的1384噸一天1384噸甚至有可能比這個再更多啦那這樣的狀況以現在的我們的處理的量有沒有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9132.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9154.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
報告目前我們盤點各縣市所報上來的不管是政府部門或者是民間大概可以再利用的量大概是一千一百一千一百噸左右了對再利用一千一百噸是那其實2115是去年一整年的統計量但是在從10月23號到目前為止這段時間的除以實際 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9156.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9170.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
實際產生量這段時間因為禁止廚餘養豬嘛所以那個量其實是可以被參考的這個部分的平均量大概是1700多噸而已不到2100噸所以是1700噸有略減 那略減我們估計他原因可能是 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9171.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9187.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
鹽頭就減量了因為現在不斷在呼籲大家能夠洗食吃多少煮多少鹽頭減量另外有一部分的民眾是配合政府的清運政策希望他們鹽頭就把它瀝乾所以其實水分也有減少了一些在這種情形之下真正需要處理的大概有284噸會走 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9189.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9207.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
魂化或掩埋但是魂化或掩埋是一個過度的一個緊急的應變的措施我們不希望它是一個永久性的所以我們還是希望能夠輔導再利用量能起來所以各地方政府目前有規劃在未來的一年緩衝期之內要做的就是增加再利用的量能大概有600多噸會上來 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9209.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9233.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
所以我希望接下來這一段時間一方面持續在前端的部分鼓勵大家就減少這些的優先減量這個邀請我也希望環境部跟各個環保局都能夠更具體的一些做法好不好更具體的做法給經濟委員會這邊那另外一方面我也希望在後端這個處理上面的能夠再找到更妥善的一些處理方式好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9234.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9258.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
這兩邊都要去同步進行臺灣要成為一個更進步的國家同時間臺灣也要讓我們的租資產業能夠得到確保的時候這些都是應該要做的事情好不好我請環保署要加大力道來跟地方的環保局來合作完成這樣的一個工作好不好好 謝謝那再來我請教一下這個大概剛剛提到了我現在是不是請教一下部長了好不好來 剩一點時間我請教部長次長先休息一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9260.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9276.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
部長我們現在在中央其實我們有轉型的包括飼料的一些補助包括大家那我先問一下如果依照現在的不管是從現在的立即來轉成飼料跟未來一年的時間之後轉用飼料的話這個總經費大概要花多少經費18億左右那這經費的來源從哪裡來 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9287.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9312.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
從行政院用那個災害應該是災害準備金所以這個經費目前沒有問題沒有問題災害準備金沒有問題那如果接下來的經費呢未來的經費會編列到政府的經費裡面嗎我想我們這個是屬於第三階段的我們經費已經報院然後院裡面大概初步上也同意用災害準備金或是用二倍金的方式來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9313.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9336.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
所以這個是明年度拿來運作嘛對那還會有後續需要的費用嗎後續的部分就會回到我們年度的這個租產業的韌性跟相關的升級的方案裡面所以那個會編入到整個公務預算裡面如果有需要增加的話我想我兩邊應該是互相會去支援這個經費因為如果明年這個計畫實行的順利的話那應該後面剩下的 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9340.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9358.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
應該經費是不會太多的持續的那個租的整個續設的升級跟相關的這些設備的升級我們還是會另外有計劃去那我問一下如果現在我們的總預算此次沒有通過會不會影響到這一筆的這個執行會影響到明年度我們對租產業升級的方案的一個執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9359.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9382.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
那對於現行的這個方案會受到影響嗎現行的方案我們是用今年的經費去做處理然後專案保留那明年度這個也注資的也很重要啦因為明年度的很多的我們要求他們要去做政府要補助他們甚至有些退場機制甚至有些扶調機制這個如果總預算只是沒有通過的話這個是新增的預算嘛那新增預算如果立法院沒有審查通過會不會產生影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9383.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9409.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
一定會喔 包括剛才很多委員希望說我們中央加強力道給地方補助沒錢 什麼都不能做啦所以我們還是希望部長 這些總經費大概要多少錢明年度要做的這些對於豬吃豬場的這些改善我們明年度的話我們編列了大概50點多億啦50億啦50億左右 4年的計畫那明年大概有15億大概應該有15億左右是在豬產業那這是一個新興的計畫嘛 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9412.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9439.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
這是延續性的嗎還是新的它是沒有它是一個延續性的作為啦但是它在切割的時候是從114到117那我只問的是如果現在總預算遲遲無法審查會不會影響到明年這個15億的預算應該會啊會影響到沒有辦法來執行啦對有一部分的特別是在設置設備補助的部分是沒辦法執行的設置設備一定是新的嘛這一定是新的政策去補助的嘛如果沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9440.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9454.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
延續的政策我們還可以照著過去的走但是如果新興的政策一定要得到立法院的同意才能夠動之所以這個公務員上面不可能違法來執行所以這個如果總預算沒有通過對於這個都會產生影響總預算沒通過不只是這個啦我們所有的農業的相關的 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9455.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9484.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
那我再問一下好了明年度有新興的預算的部分總預算如果沒有通過會造成的影響有大概多少經費會造成影響這個我可能還要再去了解一下初步就部長你的專業的了解啦你不可能都完全不了解到底哪些東西是重要的預算新興的預算應該是超過20億以上超過20億哪幾項比較重大的建設我覺得有非常多的像冷鏈冷鏈的計畫就是一個非常重要的還有一些冷鏈這個對農民很重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9484.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9494.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
特別是在治水裡面的農水路的部分還有相關的這些剝地防災的部分那個是影響最大的 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9495.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9520.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
所以治水包括農水路包括這個冷鏈那現在還有這個株枝的這個部分對這個部分可能就是我希望農業部還是要持續的對外界做說明好不好預算遲遲無法審查這不僅是立法院的這個懈怠不僅是立法院的失職同時間對於整個政府的運作會產生重大影響我認為各部會都要積極的對外界做說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9521.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9548.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
會 我們會來準備一些資料希望立法院盡速來審查讓整個很多重要對攸關人民攸關農民的一些新興的預算能夠盡速來通過這也是立法院的職責啦我希望盡速來通過好不好 部長就你們該講的要不斷讓人民知道那這樣子才能夠讓人民清楚也讓所得力我們知道不審預算這件事情對於國家的傷害跟對於政府跟對人民的傷害是很大的好不好好 謝謝部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9555.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9582.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
好 接下來我們請陳超明委員質詢主席好首先有請我們農業部陳部長部長喂部長好我們的奈瑞農委員很優秀 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9584.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9613.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
但是預算還沒審他就煩惱農業部的預算會被刪但是我報告部長不要完全配合在還沒有審查預算以前你這條嘴不要張得很大要把實際的情形講出來農業部的預算關乎農民所有的立委都不敢亂刪是怎樣用在正確的方向我希望你自在一點剛剛一講你什麼答案都好我是聽了覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9614.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9634.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
我有一件報告 那個農委員問的是說如果總預算沒有審 不是三樓沒有審的話 一些新興的計畫不能進行你一想說不會 不會審嘛現在就放口風 再製造矛盾 再製造分化我希望部長記得這個原則農民的預算 所謂經濟委員會 我了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9638.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
9655.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
不管你执政党不管你国民党大家都会替农民来全力发声这一点你放心我很感谢所有经济委员会不管哪一位政党的委员都支持我们的业余酸你现在颜色越来越重来我再给你请教第一个问题 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
9657.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
9679.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
那個土豬的養成要到窄的時候大概要幾個月你說那個土黑豬大概要15個月吧15個月 白豬幾個月白豬大概180天土黑豬的話大概一年180天 6個月 7個月 對所以剛剛李議員的委員在講現在桃竹苗養 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
9680.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
9704.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
黑枝的地方最多一家地差百年那裡的飼料費用會成本很高所以我們接到所有的反應都覺得現在農業部給養那個黑枝跟土枝的話飼料非常非常的貴養枝裡面飼料是佔了一個非常重大的一個成本補充到大方的啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
9706.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
9724.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
把福島兩三年發明新的一個機制出來把池以當為飼料你們也有研究單位其實可以好好研究早就要有所準備了好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
9725.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
9728.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
我們已經在規劃怎麼樣把廚藝變成飼料化的一個輔導團隊現在廚藝一年一天有2100公噸以前這裡的廚藝都是養黑豬佔了六成把它吃掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
9743.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
9756.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
你現在在說的 尤其那個環境部裡面啊說你們將來要以文化的燃燒堆毀黑水盲生態等方式你們都不可以下去 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
9757.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
9775.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
焚化爐燒 你燒得太多太久 焚化爐很快灰掉你堆灰會臭 民眾會反對你的黑水池收集把它焚化 那裡面我整個大家會怕你不要想得很天真 很美滿再來你說生殖的功能 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
9782.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
9799.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
所以這一點不要空口說白話你一定要實際的經驗實際的把這個環境以人家怎麼做做出來很好都要去學習環境部長沒有請你起來你聽好其實這幾個方案在地方會反對很大 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
9800.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
9827.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
我們了解不希望連放個說廚藝的垃圾桶放在哪裡都增值得很厲害給你設那麼多你沒在整個照規都不知道這點我希望你準備一下今天農業部也不要因你而賠死你曉得苗栗縣有一個養殖場叫做全盛養殖場 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
9828.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
9857.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
他是在苗栗以北最大的養殖場他以前跟你們申請也通過了就是全省唯一共同增值中心你們也核准他了也審查通過了在審查的時候那裡面有規劃先辦事業這個劉董有問你們審查委員若那個非洲裔 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
9859.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
9882.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
資本發生的時候 可以不可以即時使用你們說可以但是一發生的時候 你們這幾天都動了它投資了一億多現在放在那裡 每天背在歷史在那一邊我現在要跟你說這件事情其實它現在經營得非常好它高溫殺菌的 它是用 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
9883.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
9895.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
四葉廚藝專門去收四葉廚藝過來燒了以後而且它這個廚藝它自己來養它的白豬一般廚藝養黑豬它養白豬你現在把它動起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
9899.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
9926.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
他生死未復天天提心吊膽不然的話你們怎麼不去看他那一場他如果做得很成功而且非常順利而且可以消化廚藝你們這樣一件事發生要全部擋起來所以你們這裡做的都沒有科學的辦法安裝去成功人有什麼人做得有成功的我們就依照這樣來推展你曉得這個事情嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
9929.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
9931.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
所以你說觀望他在別部養殖場最大 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
9959.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
9980.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
大概有四五周我也跟你确实讲给我长一点时间他工厂在通宵养殖场在通宵我从那边经过的时候我吓了一跳他的黄色盖的像日本式害我要进去访问当初还没有熟我还打个犹豫我要不要进去到里面非常干净你不要讲观望 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
9981.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10005.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
他用他曾子的廚藝來養他的白豬養得又大又肥又好你說大家觀啊 當然是觀望啊但是你們要實地去瞭解啊所以今天我為什麼特別提出來你們這樣把它丟掉 你們要賠償嗎我請求你們同意你們農業部也是當初鼓勵的喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10007.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10035.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
我想在整個的一個共同政府中心本身後續我們會協助他把它轉型為廚餘的飼料化的一個工廠好 你廚餘飼料化他說液化食油他還特別跟我提醒你們把規範制定出來他到日本去學習也取得日本的專利的授權技術在但是我現在要做肥料化他叫做液化廚餘 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10036.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10058.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
可以养殖的但是没有标准到时候你又不承认你这个增幅度的事情什么都动掉没什么事情你没想过平常去关心人家做这个事情到底好坏它的成果如何所以你跟我讲其他的养殖物都在观望它有五六场 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10060.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10068.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
它是北部最大的它用它的東西在養殖所以它的競爭力特別強長得又好啊你如果不要用這個讓我去想 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10070.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10094.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
所以保證都下鄉不要只往南部走有時候提供給你一些好的一個科技資訊讓你參考其實這個全順的部分我們也一直在關心就像您剛才說的我們未來福島它轉型成為池巫瑜的一個飼料化工廠這些法令的部分我們也會完備你現在這樣說我不會相信一發生你沒有問他你這邊怎麼樣你們就擋掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10096.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10119.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
那我成立一個專案小市你親自帶隊來下鄉考察養殖物那麼多這個方式可行的話你們就要去思考了你單只聽環境部講一個焚化爐那要有多貴啊你燒廚藝要有多貴啊你還要設立一個堆肥堆肥會臭餒你要在山上去堆肥啊把它封起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10121.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10143.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
沒有 你都不知道抗爭我厲害的 你知道我這樣吹公公的就贏實地了解最重要 實地體驗最重要 好不好你們要選市長人還有 時間到沒 好好那個苗栗的肉品市場算是你們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10145.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10169.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
副部長有下去那我覺得第一個弱品市場的載輸裡面的你們要把它強化弄得乾淨我們已經有規劃了也麻煩部長再幫忙你懂我講的嗎我了解那個我們的市長以前他沒有注意因為負責經營的人沒有注意這一塊苗栗都沒有申請到 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10170.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10189.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
那時前瞻100億裡面 別的縣市都拿到苗栗縣根本都沒有只撥了多少 做了多少我希望這一點你們能幫我們解決苗栗縣弱品市場的問題我們儘可能來協助啊好好 聽了這句話 我就停止講話停止答詢 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10201.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10219.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
好 我們接下來請黃國昌委員質詢謝一鳳質詢完之後 我們休息5分鐘謝謝主席 麻煩有請農業部部長以及環境部的次長好 次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10223.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10230.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
兩位好時間的關係直接切入主題針對有關於禁用廚餘養豬這樣子的一個政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10231.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10260.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
那為了所有的民眾食的安全那以及我國豬肉那相關的競爭力那以及防治非洲豬瘟等等的政治考慮大的方向上我們是認同的只是說在政策突然變更的情況之下有一些過度時間的衝擊那那個衝擊所影響到的可能不僅僅是養豬戶他那個衝擊是全面性的 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10261.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10285.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
那當然第一個他會處理到的就是廚餘處理的成本那這個廚餘處理的成本之前部長有公開說過說這個轉型成本要往上拉就是不得不得轉型工作那可能包括相關的飲食業者價格是不是會因此而提升等等那目前針對有關於禁止廚餘養豬那這個廚餘處理成本 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10288.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10308.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
那藉由飲食業轉嫁到消費者身上你們農業部也好環境部也好有做過評估嗎大概轉嫁的成本會有多少還是像彭部長所說的每個公斤5到8元全部都轉嫁嗎跟委員報告主要就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10310.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10330.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
如果不再處於養豬的話就是會用再運用方式去解決這個問題或者是送焚化爐處理那當然要把清運跟處理的成本要把它算進來是是是 這個我都講過了 對但我的意思是說你們有做過影響的衝擊評估嗎就對於我們目前一般的消費者 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10332.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10356.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
本來出於就是一個垃圾的一部分過去可以出於養豬因為現在基於風險管理已經要斷掉所以它有一個落日嘛落日的時間就是要趕快把那個再利用量上來再利用量很多的時候自然而然價格會下降你先聽我講話好不好就是你講過的話不用一直複述你一直複述你講過的話沒有意義啊我的問題很具體啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10358.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10372.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
針對 即使廚餘養豬了以後 廚餘要處理本來不是垃圾 現在變垃圾嘛變成某一種的廢棄物 那處理廢棄物當然有成本嘛它轉嫁到消費者的衝擊影響 你們評估好了嗎有就有 沒有就沒有 這是一個很簡單的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10374.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10400.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
有做過衝擊影響評估嗎就是以目前現行的市場上面處理在利用的費用是多少我們就估過那現在市場上面處理在利用的費用是多少輕運家處理估計都是5塊到8塊每公斤是5塊到8塊你們有去市場實際調查過嗎從各縣市環保局這邊首報回來的這樣的一個數據我現在今天我其實會關心這個事情你看一下照片應該知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10401.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10416.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
因為大概在雙北這邊最大的團散的業者他其實處理的是我們國中小學的營養午餐這個會實際的衝擊到我們現在小學生他們每天營養午餐不僅僅是價格的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10417.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10443.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
更是品質的問題那為什麼會涉及到品質的問題啊因為本來的這些廚餘都有養豬戶去收嘛那現在沒有養豬戶去收他們自己就要清運嘛那清運涉及到兩個問題第一個他如果是乙級廢棄物的話就要找乙級廢棄物合格的廠商來運嘛那突然在市場上面找不到這麼多廠商你知不知道說他們有的業者是用運營養午餐的餐車去運廚餘到焚化爐去 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10446.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10462.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
你知道這個現象嗎這在法規上是容許的嗎如果從非清華來看事業是可以來運送這樣的到環保局指定的地點所以直接用餐車去運沒有問題嗎因為現在業者需要一個清楚的答案 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10464.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10492.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
除了這個廢棄物沒有問題之外另外一個就是食安法食安法也有規定就是你不要把廢棄物跟運食物同時運送所以基本上如果是他運完了之後以這個陳明信理事長他的場來講他送完之後他六日的部分沒有去公餐他的車輛是可以做這樣的事情OK好那第二個問題齁我們去關心完了以後因為焚化爐我們所得到的呈現是下午有時候請車子去 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10493.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10515.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
在那邊大排長龍要排兩三個小時還不一定排得到所以我們請黨團發文請教你們各個縣市目前在處理廚餘廢機物的焚化爐各個縣市他目前的量能跟他的分布那上禮拜五請你們回文剛剛我查了到現在都還沒有回文回來還需要多久 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10518.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10538.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
我早就發文了上禮拜五請你們回文結果到現在都沒有回覆因為我覺得現在我們在關心反映業者的心聲那業者並不是代表他自己而已他背後還有很多小學生那我們發文給你們請你們上禮拜五下班以前把各縣市的量能讓我們知道嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10539.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
10559.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
因為我總要去評估業者他們的反應到底有道理沒有道理啊那如果量能不足的話現在接下來要他們怎麼辦你總不可能雙手一攤說量能不足這是你們家的事情那環境部可能說地方政府應該有足夠的量能地方政府有沒有足夠的量能是用嘴巴講的嗎請你們提供一些基本的資訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
10560.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
10580.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
現在是覺得在國會裡面對你們的監督反正行政部門不守法不執法大家也拿你們沒皮條嘛是這樣嗎是這種態度嗎上禮拜五下班以前請教你們的問題今天下班以前送來有沒有問題有沒有困難 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
10584.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
10597.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
來請市長跟委員報告一下如果是有限一個時間要我們提供資料還沒有送達我在這邊跟您致歉我回去馬上請他們瞭解一下因為我沒有掌握到這個訊息請今天下班以前送來 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
10598.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
10622.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
要不然的話我跟你沒有辦法進行有意義的討論啊現在廚餘業者到底有幾家每天處理的量能是多少我跟委員報告同仁回報是說我們還沒有收到委員要的資料不可能這是我們黨團發的是我們了解一下好不好好今天下班以前把資料送來是我們收到我們盡快處理然後我最後只講一件事麻煩環境部去真的了解第一線地方政府目前處理的量能因為我聽到如果要去排隊處理這個廚餘 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
10624.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
10650.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
都要花三四小時大排長龍的話 那個現場的狀況環境部或許應該派官員去現場看一看去問一問在排隊的那些業者他們的心聲否則政策一改變一轉彎雖然是好的方向 中間過渡時期的配套要做好嘛否則造成的衝擊影響真的太大啊市長可以嗎可以嗎可以好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
10655.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
10664.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
好 請陳廷輝委員質詢謝謝主席 我們請農業部部長跟環境部次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
10672.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
10678.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
先 部長部長我想請教一下我們現在兩位因為我們現在全國儲備的總產量依照113年的統計是77.2萬公噸然後家戶儲備是50.5萬公噸事業儲備是26.7萬公噸好 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
10694.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
10705.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
那我們把它飼料化處理的養豬處理的大約是48.3萬公噸那現在我們禁止之後那麼這些廚餘要跑到哪裡去 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
10706.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
10728.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
我們現在要怎麼處理來 我們部長市長跟委員報告一下目前的還沒有禁止處理羊豬之前大概有六成的處理其實是我們的羊豬業者在餵羊這樣的一個方式在處理所以也有大概有四成的部分是走我們的在利用設施去處理的 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
10729.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
10754.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
市长现在我们就是已经要转型到不要再用厨余养猪我们不论是农业部现在在推的政策我们让他能够自行决定到底我要不要使用还是我要继续使用我们现在让他有一个dayline自己去决定那么势必我们后面要面对的这些 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
10755.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
10766.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
這些量我們要怎麼辦跟委員報告剛剛講的是在禁止出養之前的情況沒錯 我說我要問現在那10月23號開始因為發生了回收植物溫的案件之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
10767.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
10787.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
已經禁止廚餘養豬全國已經禁止廚養到目前為止所以這段時間大概會有百分之五十以上的廚餘是走進魂化或野脈用緊急應變的方式在處理但是我們希望最終還是要走再利用循環所以在未來的一年你有沒有去看現在所有的廚餘 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
10791.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
10805.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
你用緊急的畢竟它的量還是不夠是那所以量不夠我們現在農環境部沒有錯你要求你編列預算處理費去讓地方政府去處理但是就沒地方了 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
10806.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
10835.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
你沒有地方那你怎麼去面對這個問題那今天農業部一直鼓勵大家不要使用尤其在Daylight的時間點叫你要轉型這個勢必要轉型這個不得不轉型我們現在禁用廚餘之後我覺得這就是要變成為了我們的安全問題可是好這一段時間所發生出來的量在之後所發出來的量你要怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
10836.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
10864.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
坤委員報告在未來的一年之內各縣市環保局會增加600噸的再利用的量以台南市為主它要蓋一座160噸的生殖能源設施它可以解決我們台南產生的這樣的一個好 這多久 處理的部分多久 它需要三年的時間三年啊 對 是三年啊 這段時間怎麼辦它必須要透過民間的堆毀或者是黑水門的方式來做這樣的一個處理那有部分的量還繼續要靠混化爐 市長 沒搞 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
10866.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
10887.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
不夠你現在講的是你的目標值但是實質跟我們現在所遇到的問題是無法解決的所以我一直強調沒錯我們現在要蓋一個能夠處理未來台南的廚餘的帳的一個量體三檔這三檔呢這三檔要怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
10891.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
10916.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
市長你們有想過這三年怎麼辦然後我們看到一大堆的廚餘招不攏招不攏了你們說有我們請地方政府再處理可是地方政府他要拿到哪裡去你說你們現在先用掩埋的進入焚化爐可是量還是無法去負擔 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
10918.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
10943.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
我們今天講的是一個實質的問題然後當我們農業部在鼓勵我們所有過去用廚餘養豬的一定都要轉型勢必一定要轉型我們也編了轉型飼料養豬那但是呢那如果我們今天進入到家戶及社區型的廚餘乾燥機的補助呢市長 部長你們認為呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
10948.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
10972.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
如果我們進入環境部然後來督導推動地方政府去辦理家戶及社區型尤其學校的廚餘怎麼辦學校廚餘我們自己可以鼓勵他們來做廚餘乾燥機啊由政府單位來做啊我們要不要編列經費要不要是不是可以往這個方向來做由各自 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
10973.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
10996.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
各自减少减少那么我们的量体就不会那么大我们是不是可以把这个专案提出来跟委员报告一下如果地方有提出因地制宜源头减量的方式其实我们都希望他们可以去推广去推动可是推广我们中央有预算来协助他们吗你这样学校我觉得从学校端你们要鼓励教育部 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
10997.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11015.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
然後鼓勵學校端編列相關預算去作為他們學校營養午餐廚餘的一個處置對不對 這叫源頭我們從公部門先做嘛我們公部門如果減少了我們的一個量體 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11016.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11040.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
那是不是減少後端的一個處理那我們再從家戶 家戶其實他的這個廚藥乾燥機的補助其實補助金額不高可是他必須要變成是一個運動也就是大家願意從我自己的源頭來處理好 不要說家戶 是不是給我社區性 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11041.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11070.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
好 家戶可能這個小規模如果我們用社區型或是餐廳餐飲我們來鼓勵他來做廚餘乾燥機的補助給他然後鼓勵他們自己來做廚餘源頭的減量這樣是不是更好我們一定要分別從我們政府去蓋大量體的然後再從小規模的 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11071.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11076.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
源頭解決市長你認為呢跟委員報告一下你能不能提一個計畫從 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11078.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11105.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
產生廚餘端來看這個產生廚餘就好像是產生垃圾一樣是啊它必須要互惠來處理這是一個使用者互惠的概念但是現在是因為遇到非洲豬瘟這個事件所以我們不得不趕快去做這些源頭管控所以我們補貼一點用專案補貼一點讓他們加入這樣的一個源頭管控處理垃圾的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11106.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11126.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
這個是一個很重要的點跟委員報告我先講這樣的一個合理性補貼這件事情容我們來研議但是我要說明的是如果產生源自己把這樣的廚餘因為透過乾燥機他會減量水分就會去掉了他要處理所付的費用自然而然就省下來了對他來講就是一個經濟誘因 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11128.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11151.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
這個就是相輔相成我們用這個概念去推動也就是我們政府在這個關鍵時刻因為沒有人想到會發生台中非中豬瘟這件事情所以既然發生了我們現在也正式我們禁止用廚餘來餵豬那這個部分我們就應該要配套 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11152.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11168.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
那這個配套如果可以相對性的補助一點他又減少了他自己事業廚餘的這個處理費那就是相輔相成這才有誘因啊好不好讓我們來研議了好不好 市長再拜託了謝謝好 接下來我們請謝亦鳳委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11186.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11190.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
好 謝謝主席 我想要請陳部長跟沈次長兩位早安我的確有一個就是說涉及到兩個部會共同來協助處理的部分需要問 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11208.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11228.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
請教於兩位喔 就是說從目前廚餘在台灣是被廢清法裡面認為是一般的廢棄物那如果未來想要比照日本的ecofit這樣的模式去轉型成環保飼料的時候是不是要修法 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11230.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11244.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
第一個部分跟委員報告如果說廚餘變成飼料的話它本身就是飼料那飼料的話就會根據飼料管理法那邊去做這些相關的一個規範它不會再去考慮說它的料源是廚餘或是不是廚餘 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11245.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11269.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
所以這就是廚餘就不會被認定為一般廢棄物嗎是不是他變成飼料就不是一般廢棄物不是嗎所以廢清法部分就不用修因為廢清法是環境部的嘛對不對所以廢清法的部分就不用修了是不是而是在飼料的管理法裡面來做修法相關修法是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11271.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11299.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
那那個陳部長我想請問那未來我們是不是有可能向日本這樣的處理方式跟委員報告就是特別委員關心的就是怎麼樣讓廚藝能夠真正的再利用變成飼料委員一直關心所以我們也參考了日本的相關的那個Ecofeed本身的一個規範然後也成立了一個專案的一個團隊然後希望說透過公司協力的方式第一個先把技術的取得確認 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11300.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11327.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
然後再看看說可不可以用既有的珍珠中心去做這些設備的更改變成一個飼料化的一個工廠所以是要用既有的珍珠中心嗎這是最快的那如果說它是小規模的話它也可以用小規模的像日本它有一些小規模的這些廚餘的直接變成飼料化的這些設備那這個設備我們也在考慮是不是先引進來去做一些測試 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11329.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11356.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
那未來就是說我們要怎麼樣子把這個除於就是循環再利用減肥嗎那到底環境部有沒有規劃往生殖能的方面有跟委員報告目前台灣有兩個生殖能源廠一個是在桃園一個是台中那目前有一座是藍投在招標作業當中那規劃的目前有台南跟高雄 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11357.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11375.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
那未來要多久因為我們現在你也知道我們現在眼睜睜的就面臨到我們禁止廚餘養豬以後現在學校的這些團善業者還有我們的家用的廚餘等等都面臨到無去處的這個情況嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11378.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11402.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
你看你教學校怎麼處理這些事情跟委員報告剛剛講的那個藍投台南跟高雄那是在117年會完成那三年以後是但是在116年底的時候台灣的在地用量能就已經大於產生量了那為什麼呢你怎麼計算的我們在明年的一年當中地方政府報上來的他們可以增加的在地用量能包括 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11403.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11430.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
快速堆回或者是傳統堆回或者是黑水門再利用等等或者是跟污水下水道系統共消化的部分的量能加起來有600噸在未來的一年未來的兩年就是116年的時候會再增加400噸那你把它變成了就是說你把它都變成了地下污水下水道等等的共消化是其中一個選項另外就是堆回或者是黑水門再利用 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11430.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11459.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
那至於黑水盟在利用的問題我也要就教於你我們兩個一起去看過是不是我們兩個一起去看過黑水盟的那個啊可是黑水盟的確在過程當中它需要一個發酵的那個過程會產生的氣味會讓互信的就是周邊的如果有居住的人或者是同場域的人會覺得不舒服嗎是不是那這個部分有沒有辦法做解決 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11460.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11482.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
跟委員報告那個當然不管是什麼樣的處理設施都應該要考慮到設置的地點的適合性然後做好居民溝通我舉的例子現在不是只有民間設黑水門的場地方政府的清潔隊也有我知道是那我也問過我們的清潔隊的隊員他們過去在處理轉運的過程當中他收的傢戶來之後他再送去處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11484.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11503.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
戰制的過程當中如果他採用的是用黑水門來取代過去的傳統的方式他改善了他的環境衛生所以清潔隊員是歡迎的所以這個不是不是因為我是說如果有這一種氣味的產生那那個發酵過程你菌種可以改嗎是不是菌種能不能改 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11505.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11524.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
所以我不瞭解就是說黑水盟基本上就是飼養了蟲體來吃掉這個我知道我知道我們那天去看了嘛我們去看你也你也同樣的我不曉得那天你有沒有拿手去我當然有啊對啊那個有溫度的蟲蟲其實它沒有特別的溫度沒有特別的味道我當然有啊你不是也有嗎有是啊是啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
11524.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
11540.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
我是說就是這個會產生造成鄰近設施的這個大家居民的問題我認為你也要想辦法來做相關的解決好不好環境部你這種你就是應該要解決一下就是居民的生活品質的問題嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
11542.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
11566.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
畢竟台灣就是地狹人稠的地方大家都是很接近這些鄉鄰的設施所以是不是能夠就這個部分環境部也要想出具體解決方法現在很多嘛 你改善菌種然後減低氣味等等的這很多方式可以改善 是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
11567.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
11576.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
部長 我再就教於你現在怎麼辦 飼料養豬就是廚藥不能養豬以後 那飼料怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
11578.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
11603.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
这你要讲一下第一个部分我觉得现在问题就是说我们现在这些黑猪的部分过去用厨余嘛那他们过往一直没有习惯用饲料所以第一个部分就是让他们习惯怎么样用一个饲料去饲养那这个饲料我们现在叙事所有一些就是专门黑猪的这些饲料配方让他们有这样的一个习惯 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
11603.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
11631.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
那因為用飼料的話他的生育期就不會跟廚餘一樣那麼長因為廚餘本身是低蛋白的部分所以我想我們會成立我們已經成立一個黑豬的輔導團隊會不會增加成本成本是一定會增加會不會增加成本一定會增加成本但是相對的你看現在就是很麻煩就是你看養豬的成本也增加學校團善的費用的處理的費用也增加所以兩邊增加嘛對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
11631.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
11647.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
對 我想短期內一定增加但是長期來講的話我們是用確保這些原來的黑豬產業能夠持續發展而且它的利潤是能夠做一個維持基本的維持這個我想我們是我們要的一個目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
11647.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
11664.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
那請問一下他如果這些珍珠的設施他才剛買有沒有那如果趕不上你們那種ecofit這樣子的方式就是用原本的珍珠設施去做這些就是環保飼料那怎麼辦呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
11665.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
11683.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
我想我们现在会用目前的共同争处中心像苗栗的那个全数当作一个暗场去协助它变成一个饲料化工厂那自己在家里是没有办法变成一个饲料的因为饲料化工厂它有它的品规规格化的问题 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
11683.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
11710.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
所以一般就是说小型的没有办法自己没办法做那有没有就是说那这个他们拆除设备怎么样子相关的我们后续如果说我们的Ecofeed如果觉得说这个技术是可行的我们会鼓励一些另外他成立一个不在猪场里面在外面成立一个做这样的一个厨艺饲料化的一个小型工厂这个我想我们都愿意来辅导 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
11710.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
11719.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
所以就是原有的珍珠設施可以變成小型不行 在原來的租場是不行的不行 不行要在外面就對了在外面 對因為我們擔心說那這個怎麼樣子協助他們轉型 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
11721.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
11748.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
我想轉型本身特別是剛才也有人提到一些其他的植物性料源那我們也會利用在豬場以外的這些正主中心去做成這些飼料化的原料然後再提供給豬場這樣的話會在防疫的角度會比較安全好 希望說儘速去處理好不好因為現在現在廚餘真的是造成大家很大的困擾我知道 我也非常關心我想我們一定會努力好 謝謝陳部長好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
11756.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
11759.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
休息五分鐘休息五分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12068.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12094.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
好 我們繼續開會我們請蘇青前委員質詢好 謝謝主席我們請陳部長陳部長委員好部長 部長辛苦了第一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12095.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12109.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
就上次我跟在院會上質詢的獸醫師在屠宰場大型經濟週五的待遇跟出席你有提高待遇不開獎金要做嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12110.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12125.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
我跟委員報告分兩個部分一個部分我在防疫的過程中發現到說地方的防疫人員不足所以我也在中央應變中心裡面請各地方政府統計他們現在人力不足的到底不足到多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12126.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12144.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
那這個部分他們陸續都有給我一些人員的部分然後我們整理以後我想我會正式的用喊請我們人事總署針對地方的防疫的部分是不是可以增加人這是人的增加的部分這第一個部分那第二個部分就是您剛才講的就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12145.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12165.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
人到位了以後各個養豬場要配置的受益人員本身那他有每一個場本身他給的錢不大一樣嘛那這個部分我想我們再積極再跟各縣市的這些養豬的一個工會再討論你一座五百塊那是要怎麼省錢啦所以這個部分我想我們會再跟養豬協會這邊工會這邊討論你常常說不開獎金要提高到三萬我是說太少要六萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12176.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12203.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
這個考慮到因為現在目前不一定所有的獸醫師都從事防疫的工作所以我想我們第一階段先把這些獸醫師的不開業獎金提高了最高到3萬這是第一階段後面看看有沒有機會去處理就是說真正在處理防疫的部分是不是有一個防疫的這些津貼不能一味的一直提高不開業獎金因為有的獸醫師不從事防疫 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12206.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12218.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
不然你每一次出勤的非要給人家增加嘛對 所以這個要跟養豬公會那邊要去討論這個部分 類似沒有啦 時間一萬啦是非的地位尊嚴台無量的鼓勵那個證書是你發的耶受益市的證書你發的耶我覺得這樣對人家來說很不 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12225.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12239.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
很沒保障的對不對房檢署發的不是我發的房檢署一樣都是你 你在管的好啦 我要問第一個問題 我時間有限了主席喔 給30秒啦這個喔 這個 這是你的詩啦我前陣子去問丹喔 去那邊看來 放給大家看這隻很大隻的 這陳欣甫的啦來 放來 放來 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12250.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12259.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
恐龍一般彷彿來到侏羅紀公園遊客拿起手機搶拍想往後閃遠一點還不勝兩槍還有人嚇到一哭這隻差不多要兩公尺了哇靠 這麼大隻啊 都這麼小喔對對對 這大比鵝喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12268.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12268.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
來 下一張 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12298.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12315.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
因為時間有限啦 所以來 再來 下一張補到你去東港翁牙要拜拜嗎這裡翁牙要討錢啦沒去過東港我們翁牙 我叫你來拜拜齁這裡東港翁牙要討錢 我看到了再來 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12319.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12344.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
這隻我曾經牠們抓一箱而已這隻沒有的牠們在打人 跟我說牠們在打人 跟我說牠們在打人 跟我說牠們在打人 跟我說牠們在打人 跟我說牠們在打人 跟我說牠們在打人 跟說牠們在打人 跟說牠們在打人 跟說牠們在打人 跟說牠們在打人 跟說牠們在打人 跟說牠們在打人 跟說牠們在打人 跟說牠們在打人 跟說牠們在打人 跟說牠們在打人 跟說牠們在打人 跟說牠們在打人 跟說牠們在打人 跟說牠們在打人 跟說牠們在打人 跟說牠們在打人 跟說 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12346.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12364.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
因為今年 我跟委員報告今年就是在年初的時候不像很多委員特別是南部的包括委員您就是說希望我們成立一個應變小組所以我們提供了一些更多的經費然後成立跨縣市的一個合作的平台所以今年度抓的特別多現在都中東的多了 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12368.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12375.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
每年都變成15萬隻我們今年應該12萬隻了吧大概今年到11月就12萬隻今年已經抓到22萬隻的部分你過去五萬幾隻不然這不是很討厭的那是軟的 那軟的那軟的還要來看下一站在挖洞 挖軟的 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12389.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12400.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
這不是土豆耶這也不是韓籍耶這是農耶就像我們在看那個空農這樣一樣那個所以現在我嚴肅的問三個問題第一個你現在只有給達人抓普通農民抓的不准算 沒錢他們抓就要抓那種種地那麼高 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12420.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12434.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
到後來有錢沒錢 不管 要騎著一些替代品大隻的 如果說小隻的一百塊這第一個問題第二個問題 他們農民自己的威望在這裡有幫助嗎 他們自己掠 自己掠 自己的餐盒自己掠那你都沒有幫助第三 幾股產 吃了之後 紅豆啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12444.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12460.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
什麼什麼豆啊 瓜果類都吃完了啊你有沒有天然沙要補助啊現在還要補蒸紅豆啊他就不只吃紅豆啊 紅豆一開而已啊所以整個所有的餐廳 你看得到嗎全部都吃光光啊這這時間太長了 怎麼辦這你就要吃一顆一顆來啊來撈到兩顆 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12469.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12478.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
兩也要補助啦 歐兩比較好啦那一粒 一箱就八十粒 一百粒他一年有兩次 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12481.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12505.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
我們補農來這裡也不行啦 不管啦這兩個這個 餓兩天的 你也要補多 不然我這真的是議中心常跟你講啦我謝謝委員的提醒喔 第一個部分就是說農民的補分喔他如果經過訓練他是可以的如果沒有經過訓練 因為他現在到列補的時候可能要用到一些器械嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12505.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12525.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
那怕多他的安全的問題所以只要你經過訓練的部分的農民都可以領到這些錢那第二個部分就是說這些補助的部分本身我們現在沒辦法用天然災害因為天然災害有天然災害的規範所以我們現在是提供一些防治的這些資材 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12528.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12540.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
那第三個蛋的部分因為蛋比較不好找不過我想蛋的部分我們後續會來評估如果說有系統的能夠找到這個蛋是從源頭是以老永逸的這個部分我們後續會來評估好接下來我們請 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12557.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12585.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
因為等下中午不休息我們就繼續諮詢我們接下來請鐘嘉編委諮詢主席在場委員先進 夜協政府江蘇黨官員會長 工作夥伴媒體記者女士先生有請陳部長跟沈次長部長 次長好來保定 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12586.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12593.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
我們說台語說獨語有這個東西廚餘台語怎麼說獨語啊沒有啦我們說噴啦噴啦沒有啦噴就知道了噴是怎麼來的噴要經過獨訪嘛對不對經過獨訪 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12603.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12627.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
烹煮去 人家吃出的 收回來叫做噴但是我們現在說的這叫做熟食 熟廚餘啦但是廚房沒烹煮去的 也有一些切下來的 那不可以吃的那叫做生廚餘 對不對所以我們說禁止廚餘是指廚房的出去回收的那些噴以及不能夠供人食用的這些料 是不是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12628.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12645.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
沒有 基本上我們說家務廚餘就是包括這些嗎家務廚餘都包理的都是包理的 生的熟的廚餘出來的清潔隊拉的大概都是這種生的熟的如果他沒有分的話湯湯水水的都有但是我看到你們這個目前禁止廚餘養豬你們現在有分喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12647.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12671.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
家戶的那種來源複雜的 慶堆堆收走了不可以或者已清業者收走不可以這些環境部會來做堆肥 黑水盲 生殖能 焚化 掩埋目前這一年未來一年還可以養的養豬的就是有餐廳的 這個比較單純團散的好像還可以那請問過期食品跟加工廠的下繳料 那叫做廚餘嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12674.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
12689.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
跟委員報告這個也都是可以列為繼續廚餘養豬的不是它不叫做廚餘它叫做料園對不對所以我們說我們禁廚餘但是在未來一年當中有些廚餘特定的廚餘跟料園可以用來餵豬 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
12690.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
12718.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
部長是不是這樣子我看你們都在寫嘛允許使用匯豬的廚餘和料源是不是這樣是這樣子那請問喔像這些料源當中請問省次長有沒有廢棄物的再利用的一個可能性跟委員報告這個基本上是參考日本EcoFit的來源也是這樣分類的好那他有分類有編號那我們目前在有編號的這些屬於廢棄物的範疇的可以就可以申請再利用 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
12718.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
12735.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
但是前提要可以編號可以認可好我們往下看所以現在我先問陳次長這個黑水盲跟你們溝通過很多次了那目前黑水盲短暫時間很多企業想要投資請問目前到目前統計的有在投入的28場都是大型的處理廠嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
12736.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
12756.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
我所謂大型的是我也不曉得你們的規模是怎麼算包括有像民間的公司像雨田之類的也有像清潔隊自己在飼養的黑水門你看現在28場他可以處理237噸一天所以一天處理平均不到10噸那這個算是大規模還是小規模的 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
12759.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
12779.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
跟委員報告規模不重要能處理最重要目前的量能大概是只有五六十噸到目前為止對就是未來規劃可能會增加這麼多未來規劃我們要看一下其實我是認為給您一個建議其實剛剛我聽到我們部長有問到我們的謝昭偉我也去摸過那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
12780.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
12805.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
黑水盲的幼蟲他其實他不錯啦應該是問過次長其實在社區裡面是還OK的但是如果說你運送我先請教次長黑水盲的蟲體比較好運送還是為黑水盲的廚餘比較好運送蟲體所以廚餘要救援救地把它處理掉變成蟲體之後他要再利用是不是就比較方便 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
12807.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
12834.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
是好謝謝那我們就往下看來接下來我來請一下部長陳部長我們在非洲豬瘟爆發之前黑豬有大概62萬5千頭結果經過了108年那一次107年之後就掉了15萬頭現在是47萬頭那你覺得在經過這一次的事件後會剩下多少萬頭有沒有抓一個數量不用存25萬頭大概有沒有一個規模因為黑豬你們現在也在輔導他轉型 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
12836.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
12843.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
還是講黑豬嗎如果到明年的年底的話應該一場都沒有不是啦 我是說黑豬的產量啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
12844.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
12867.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
黑豬的部分我們盡量的維持這個黑豬的一個產業以前的規模62萬嘛現在掉到47萬嘛未來你估計我們福島轉型可以轉型轉型的部分我們估計可能有一部分的黑豬他會轉成用白豬我是問數量你們估計個目標值大概一半啦至少大概維持到一半可能47萬剩下23萬26 24萬好那請問這些要退場的怎麼退 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
12873.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
12895.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
他第一個就是轉成白豬飼養不是我說退場黑豬要怎麼退場黑豬本來47萬頭這個產業鏈有母豬有小豬有肥成有育成然後有肥大豬然後在市場那這個產業鏈我所知道的分布是這樣屏東是母豬母豬生小豬而且母豬跟小豬都是吃飼料還不是吃廚餘 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
12896.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
12920.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
然後呢 培亞頂尿在跟育成的培亞頂尿送到那個對 而且中北部有大量廚餘中北部養肥了才送市場 對不對所以未來的黑豬的這樣的轉型後的產業鏈就不是這樣了嘛因為已經沒有廚餘這個問題了所以屏東也可以成為一個從頭到尾的一個黑豬的產業鏈好 那你估計 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
12921.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
12942.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
你估計這樣子目前因為母豬大部分都在屏東47萬頭的整年的規模屏東要多少萬頭的母豬未來要撿到多少目前你們的轉型計畫退場有沒有包放母豬我們現在目前的轉型的退場是針對後端的這些豬場 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
12943.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
12967.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
對 但是你要想 你要從產業鏈整個生命周期來看你要讓黑豬因為沒有料園了 或沒有廚餘了 要縮減所以他要整個往下減 像剛才你講的 對豬肉開始減嘛對 豬肉一年生的幾隻 你就在頭前開始減 後面就減嘛而且現在最麻煩的是什麼 是母豬的養殖場 小豬的養繁育場 為什麼大概十分之一場 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
12969.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
12994.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
十分之一的量 退場十分之一 請問母豬的退場你們有沒有補助份目前的母豬的場是全部大概十分之一的量就是母豬要十場退到只剩一場就夠了是不是這樣子意思 十分之一沒有現在的這個黑豬的養豬場十分之一部長我還是跟你講一下我們要讓黑豬規模要轉型轉型包括規模會縮減規模縮減一定是從前端嘛 從圓頭嘛圓頭減了後面的量就減嘛那因為現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
12999.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
13010.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
養母豬的他預期後面的量會縮他擔心未來這個生下去之後沒有人要嘛所以他要退場嘛請問目前有沒有對於黑豬場的母豬退場有做輔導補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
13013.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
13040.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
我們現在是沒有 我們現在是正在後端的那因為你前端的 我知道你後端的都是補貼飼料的成本差價啦黑豬的改吃飼料的成本差 問你那前面的母豬的有沒有退場機制因為牠照樣可以領 因為牠如果有牠不吃飼料 你要捏三下嘛牠現在就不吃飼料嘛 你們補的是改吃飼料的成本差嘛只要你是有豬的話 一頭就3600嘛只要是黑豬 不管有沒有吃飼料牠本來就吃飼料啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
13041.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
13062.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
我們這個我們現在沒有在處理我們現在只要你是黑豬所以我說你要一個月內我要你承諾一個月內針對整個黑豬產業鏈整個規模縮減後母豬的源頭要怎麼樣在一個月內很快的生因為母豬牠現在要是懷孕了牠就是等著明年明年的需求嘛明年一年後就沒有了嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
13063.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
13082.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
所以你們要不要先從母豬開始做這應該要做的啊好 那就承諾一個月內將母豬的退場機制 數量跟方法提報好不好可以好 謝謝好 我們接下來請謝榮介委質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
13097.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
13125.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
主席我請補充請部長補充你好你好說廚藝叫噴你知道嗎我知道那是俗話說我們都說噴嘛不是俗話那是很文化的話你知不知道噴要怎麼吃噴要怎麼吃我應該不可以吃三點四一二環合的環 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
13127.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
13153.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
用在洗面叫做噴啊所以這個噴就是洗米汁水啊我們以前洗米起來那個洗米水洗米湯叫做噴啊所以陰性會毒魚啊所以過去說流水不復啊流水不復就是水如果流就不會臭所以有一個汁水之噴啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
13154.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
13164.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
這個樹裡面就有什麼 積水積噴就是說在溪流裡面 還有一個泉河 那個地方都沒有流掉那個地方就有臭味了 就會發汗所以噴是這樣來的了解所以這個噴很嚴重現在如果是池底沒有用噴 當然是會進步 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
13179.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13186.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
但是過程中有很多人受到傷害就是說政府會去蜜補這個盆子你說要用到盡大家的農莊沒有生產這個盆子出來 很困難所以我覺得 因為剛才說是不是有客戶要補助有要補助大家 家家戶戶補助於所謂的廚餘機 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13209.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13234.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
水質就是像我們家吃這個春的 湯什麼的 它乾燥起來 它夠味道就可以說應該環保局 環經部會和你合作 我覺得必要政府要鼓勵 政府要鼓勵 減量也不然現在學校包括營養午餐 包括這份的技術 大家偷偷聽 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13235.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
13238.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
你看 應該怎麼解決本縣已經有跟你請教過了 你都沒做我跟委員補講 就是說他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13243.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13260.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
家家戶戶本身是不是用廚餘機我們曾經也跟環境部討論過那沒關係啦那是一個你們有要補助沒有是我幫你提倡嘛對 這上面你有說過對 地理就是噴的加工我不是跟你說日本就有這個工廠對但是日本的它不是純粹用噴去加工嘛對它這是要再添加蛋白質添加料 添加豆腐讓它變成乾燥料 變成飼料 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13273.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13299.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
所以他的身份的比本更高比一般吃料的更便宜所以他的處置在中間這個以台灣 不用去印證日本的收款啦台灣的工研宜我們的工研宜就有那麼多只要你委託他你跟環境部 我們共同來委託他們我來研發這一定要用工業式的處理啦那麼甚至在 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13301.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13320.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
其實國管署都有需要嘛是不是要在台北市沒有在刺激啊所以就要來刷新北市還是刷中華、台南、高雄、屏東沒有需要台北市也可以設一個這種工場因為它是在地企劃然後研究、包裝、送到地上去用啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
13321.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13334.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
我說這樣 你有瞭解嗎我專一陣型我們委員講的就是說我們差不多一個月前就去日本去參觀假所以我現在也成立一個專案小組針對日本本身它的 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13337.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13353.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
廚餘的飼料法會保溫喔 他的家務廚餘是沒禮拜的他用市民的下餃料 他有分類 他分就有分類啊他有分類來的喔 事業的部分是可以進來的他有分檔 搭 還有分 其他是肉類 蔬菜 蔬果 其他 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13354.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13366.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
這是我們本身 本來就是專門要共同來面對嘛這本來的東西不可能沒面對啊我現在是說 你有 你總要去看看回來 自己擔心你自己委託要做機械 還是說交給工研院來跟你合作啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13372.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13392.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
我告訴你 農業部一直在跟工研院在農業方面就有非常多的這些合作所以後續我們也會跟工研院討論有沒有辦法針對這個部分設計那個機組這個部分我想我們會來做本席在這裡請你跟工研院進行交代你這個月來可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
13394.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
13403.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
你跟香港人的合作意向跟內容跟目標最好要達成的目標這個計劃先是可以提供的本色 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
13405.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
13417.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
可以 我們跟工研院先討論以後會把基本的想法看幾層沒有 我們已經有在接觸但是他們也要時間去設計一個月之內可以提供可以提供到相關的一個規劃第一階段的規劃就可以了好 謝謝你 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13438.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13459.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
好 接下來林楚瑩 林楚瑩 林楚瑩不在我們接下來請蔡易瑜委員質詢好 謝謝召委那我們是有請農業部部長跟環境部次長部長 喂 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13468.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
13485.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
那還是要延續整個上午大家都在討論現在未來這個禁止廚餘養豬那針對廚餘的部分就事業性的一個廚餘就是類似下繳料的這個部分大概還是會就是在排除的外面 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
13486.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
13508.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
這個排除大概大家會認為有一個比較爭議點的就是說那屬於餐廳的部分餐廳的食材是剩食的部分那他是屬於家用性的廚餘還是事業性的廚餘呢各位報告如果在未來的一年的緩衝期裡面那餐廳的廚餘是可以繼續養豬 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
13510.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
13535.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
餐廳的廚餘是可以的那餐廳的廚餘你們認為它的來源是相對單純所以是有辦法找到就是跟農業部一起討論的一個結果那基本上我們也參考日本的做法他們有做成這樣的一個環保飼料的工藝的來源大概會指的就是這幾類那環保飼料的話是它是會用種植噴煮通於雷柱還是要分散 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
13537.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
13552.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
環保飼料那個部分是又下一個階段農業部它會有規劃我現在講是未來的這一年可以繼續作為飼料養豬的來源可以當作養豬來源的部分就是說餐廳的部分你繼續讓他們現在可以飼料養豬環中期今年可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
13553.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
13574.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
跟那一種類似工廠料的工廠料也可以那部分可以家用的因為來源不明這部分就完全禁止養豬也就是說經濟隊收集的部分都不可以養豬了經濟隊去洗衣服都不可以像家中的那就是家戶的那就不是事業性的主義了那農業部呢 農業部的規劃呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
13577.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
13601.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
就未來你們要把工業部後續的規劃就是針對有關於廚餘飼料化的部分對 飼料化我們現在已經成立一個小組希望說有系統將現在目前的可能的共同政府中心或者是可以增加其他的能夠將一些事業的廚餘還是不能用家務廚餘事業的廚餘或是食品下腳料能夠變成有規格的飼料 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
13601.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
13625.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
那這個部分我想他後續的飼料有機會降低成本那這樣的話對於我們維持黑豬的產業是有幫助的這個我們會來協助好那想要請教就是說好你現在廚餘要做飼料化那事實上我們事實上在推動這個黑水盲的這一個循環的這個產業實際上也推動一段時間但是黑水盲事實上還是有差 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
13625.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
13652.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
他在去化所謂廚餘的時候的一些障礙其中最大的一點就是土地取得的一個障礙現在他還是需要要用環保用地才能夠去養黑水盲現在用農業用地應該可以現在農業用地要怎麼可以申請嗎這部分是怎樣只要他凝聚新曼四葉就辦理農地的變更編定就可以了農變嘛就是用農變的方式來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
13654.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
13667.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
有辦法這樣做嗎就是用你現在的農地你如果要做這些黑水盲的話我們可以用他提出一個新辦事業然後我們同意他農地變耕用這種方式那黑水盲之後的使用呢是可以去當飼料 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
13669.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
13676.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
還是黑水芒的後續的使用方式他應該可以再變成一個飼料化的部分不能直接從體去餵啦他一定要變成變成粉以後變成一個飼料有規格的有規格品的部分就可以餵到豬 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
13687.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
13707.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
就是黑水芒先去化廚餘然後黑水芒長大後再經過你們的專業處理然後黑水芒就是蟲的部分再轉化成飼料就是我們現在講的就是一個讓它飼料化那站在日本那邱志偉委員帶隊去看的他們所謂的這個就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
13709.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
13725.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
也是經過高溫的高溫把它顆粒化那還是把它做成飼料嘛對 飼料一個最重要的特色就是它的產品是有規格化的而且它的品質是穩定的它不像現在的廚藝有沒有它是不穩定的部長 那這些成本呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
13726.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
13750.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
成本的部分呢沒有我們現在就是說我們一直希望說第一個就是未來黑豬產業的持續發展我們一方面開發現在的配方那另一方面就是用廚藝轉化成飼料那這個兩個是同步在執行的好那部長可以先回那環境部先再留一下是那第二個我要問一下就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
13752.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
13774.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
事實上這個嘉義市的這個垃圾站自產他4年已經四度大火了從111年8月 112年2月到113年的2月跟114年的4月那都說是不管是鋰電池的自燃啊或者是彈簧船的床墊的自燃總是說他名字叫做站自產但是他 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
13775.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
13795.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
它的管制的力道就是比一般的這個廢棄物的一個最終氣質廠管的還鬆嘛所以它這樣大火燒起來然後也沒有人有辦法去理解說到底為什麼產生這樣的大火然後每一次只要進入到冬季然後這個東北季風來 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
13796.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
13813.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
這一些有汙染有毒的這一些氣體類全部都漂到水上跟中埔來造成我們當地的居民的受損這個我也不是第一次質詢了我已經質詢到這一次應該包括在未完會加起來應該是超過四次的質詢了但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
13814.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
13835.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
衛福部都沒有辦法告訴我們像這樣的戰事場它雖然是放在嘉義市的比較偏嘉義市區比較遠的地方但是離嘉義縣人口密集的地方非常近一公里都不到離我們這麼近然後每一次都發生狀況火災了東北季風直接都把這些空氣都影響到我們的縣民 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
13836.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
13849.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
那我們現在我們環保我們我們環境部到底有什麼辦法可以約束這樣用戰字廠這樣的名字來偷渡他們是做這個垃圾的氣質廠來跟委員報告以嘉義市這個垃圾 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
13852.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
13875.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
野埋場這個戰事場為例他在戰事的過程當中他必須要加強維護管理比如說消防的設施紅外線的偵測等等那24小時要有人巡檢這是最基本的所以這個部分我們會針對經常發生火災的這些野埋場或戰事場那會做一個全面性的檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
13876.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
13903.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
希望他們必須要加強這些管理的措施那目的只是為了在第一時間如果因為蓄熱然後引起這樣的一個高溫然後自然的時候第一時間就能夠做這樣這個即時的撲滅那這個部分容我們再跟各縣市環保局會把這個場列為最優先市長我還是要說一下啦你們112年你們說你們說現在因為只有一個叫做資源回收 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
13904.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
13920.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
储存场实地辅导作业你们只有这样的一个叫做作业办法而已那我已经三度的透过质询包括现在这一次又第四次就是说我们要有一个中央统一规范就是针对这种跨县式的 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
13921.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
13948.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
他既然他叫做跨縣市他表示他的影響所及並不是只有在他們縣他們自己市區的範圍他已經影響到了周遭縣民的時候是不是這部分的審查必須要做由中央來介入審查不然你們現在嘉義市的這一個環保環保站駐場他們是自己生產的沒關係過他們你知道他們的焚化爐他們也是自己生產的焚化爐要小爐小爐變大爐 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
13951.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
13965.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
要開始燒的東西要量 要增加會影響到我們的管理人員嗎?會嗎?市長 會嘛 會對不對 不然會這件事他們要通過焚化爐的擴大是嘉義市政府自己審查耶 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
13966.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
13990.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
那你至少要讓我們嘉義縣表示意見嘛沒有餒 他們都自己審查餒然後你知道嗎 你知道他們多誇張他們說他們有辦一個公聽會然後辦公聽會有邀請我們的議員跟我們公所水上公所跟中埔公所去參加然後我們去參加我們就是表達抗議他就說 因為你們有來抗議所以你們就等於有參加公聽會了這樣就算過了 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
13993.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
14020.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
市長我跟委員報告像這種鄰近跨縣市的部分我們會特別要求我們的因為這個案子是回收的設施會跟我們的循環署有關那如果是垃圾掩埋場的部分會跟我們的環管署有關不管是環管署或循環署對於這種容易因為戰事造成的這個失火這個部分我們一起來研議啦又噴化爐啦又站住場失火市長我覺得這個我覺得鄉親的感覺都很直白啊瞭解瞭解咱就去那裡你為一條線啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
14022.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
14044.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
看他們那個贊助場到水上工作比較快到中部工作比較快或是去他們家裡政府比較快啦我跟你保證一定是我們比較近啦我們這裡的人口密集這麼高他們放在他們的高窟地圖直接你看他們放在他們的郊區然後告訴我們他們家醫師放在這裡沒有影響我們這裡的縣民就都不是人這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
14046.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
14070.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
中央要介入這種已經是跨縣市的中央要介入那至少兩邊要怎麼樣做好遁清木林要怎樣讓縣的人也可以接受說我旁邊有焚化爐我旁邊有這樣叫做環保氣質場然後發生火災的時候我們都被氣質不理跟委員報告這個案子讓我們會和我們專案來處理再跟委員做一個回報謝謝市長謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
14077.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
14097.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
接下來我們請劉建國委員質詢感謝主席我要講久一點因為陳冠廷委員特別拜託請部長跟次長請部長說明一下到底是黑水盟還是黑水盲 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
14100.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
14112.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
我們要讓嘉義縣兩位委員的說法要口徑要一致黑水蒙吧黑水蒙 好好 那個議員已經有聽到了我來接續剛剛 剛剛先針對 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
14115.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
14143.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
那個環境部次長的這個戰事的垃圾處理的方式因為在委員會今天也排這個專案報告平均兩個星期就有一個戰事垃圾處理的堆置場火燒了所以它已經不叫做鹹熱設施它叫做環境危險的設施兩個禮拜就一次中央環境部都有在監控我們還持續不斷的讓它持續在發生那我剛才是跟彭部長講說你們到現在還在訂指引 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
14145.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
14173.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
應該是從幫我去修訂甚至於我們委員會都可以來修法獎程要分明了獎程要很積極的讓地方政府在垃圾戰時對市長裡面他應該要什麼樣的一個規範他應該面對到這樣的火災他必須應該接受到什麼樣的懲處我覺得這個是要請市長特別明確的來跟委員會做這樣一個說明可以吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
14175.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
14202.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
好 謝委員關心這個議題我想這個的確是很多縣市都有這樣的一個情況發生我們也一再的提醒 一再的發文但是事情還是在發生對 所以現在訂指引已經來不及了是 但是只是一個行政指導而且剛剛部長達夫跟海林的報告是兩個是今年的 明年的2月才會把指引訂出來也邀請專家學者還有地方的相關的這些單位來做討論那怎麼需要討論訂一個指引還要兩三個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
14203.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
14232.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
不知道要不要再修幾次所以我講說剛剛委員會排的這個專欄報告你不要這個禮拜又燒一次哪一個縣市又燒一次還是剛剛講的嘉義市又燒一次不符合啦所以特別再拜託次長好不好那第二件事情我請陳部長還有營養環境部的次長我們可能要重新定義廚餘廚餘到底要怎麼定義這個可能要請你們好好說明一下因為政策的成敗在於有沒有系統性且有邏輯的處理的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
14234.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
14262.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
目前的邏輯斷成在於我們政府切斷了廚餘養豬那既然這條路已經確定明確要這樣走下去了但是原有的廚餘總量它不會消失它不可能憑空消失嘛那你看現在我們有沒有辦法精準的去區分到所謂的高風險廚餘還有所謂的什麼叫可利用的資源所有的廚餘廢棄物如果再這樣下去一定會塞爆我們所有的焚化廠 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
14263.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
14292.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
跟我們的堆毀場一定會馬上發生而且你看地方政府一直跟中央不會同調我們現在核心的邏輯問題是台北市廚餘全數堆毀處理不再分紅統跟藍統新北市2026年明年開始不再分生廚餘跟熟廚餘台中市維持生熟廚餘分開台南高雄不調整生廚餘的分類 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
14293.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
14319.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
部長 這個資料正確吧 目前來講你們的掌握是不是這樣跟後端的處理方式有相關所以因地制宜的採取前端的分類方式對 我是說現在各縣市給中央的訊息是不是如此如果是這樣那就糟糕了那你們怎麼去管控不是 各縣市後端處理的方式不同而來決定前端用什麼方式來分類 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
14321.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
14331.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
如果是桃園來講它生殖能源中心是生手廚藝都可以處理它沒有必要去做分類啊沒有必要把身跟手再分開只要把垃圾跟廚藝分類就好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
14333.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
14360.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
市長你這樣講話也對啦 如果地方政府他可以做到這樣的程度 不過我們覺得今天 今天非洲主溫的感染的來源主要是我們的熟廚宇 肉類的熟廚宇 或是對不起 生熟的肉類的廚宇 應該是這麼講嘛但是我們蔬果的這個廚宇基本上它是沒有這個風險性的啊那我們把這兩個融在一塊 不再做這樣那個源頭的分流那豈不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
14361.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
14383.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
那你說你要讓地方政府他有這樣處理的源頭量能你們就接受會不會再來一次像台中市這種狀況發生我再擔憂這個狀況這個邏輯上的問題會不會再發生這樣的風險可是因為這一次的政策調整主要都基於風險的管控當然沒有錯所以只有一年的緩衝期一年過後全面就禁止出於養豬所以那個風險就已經歸零 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
14385.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
14409.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
在這種情況之下就過渡的一年之中就會有剛剛委員講的那一種分類的問題那到底怎麼樣分類我們盡量就是把高風險的部分那這一年會不會塞爆焚化廠會不會塞爆隱埋廠會不會塞爆堆肥廠跟委員報告如果委員談的是這個部分那應該就是量能跟再利用量能之間的關係是不是我跟委員報告一下目前除以在禁止養豬的期間產生量大概是1000 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
14411 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
14432.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
700多公噸但是我們的再利用量大概有1100公噸的確是有600噸的一個缺口對但是未來的一年因為已經有落日了所以民間會看到這樣的商機之後會投入這樣的再利用的一個管道所以地方政府所報上來的所掌握的不管是公的或者是私有的所投入的量能大概在明年會有增加620噸 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
14434.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
14454.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
那過程當中當然就會有銜接不是一步到位所以魂化爐會繼續使用那魂化爐我們擔心的就是操作過程會不會產生代號性的問題這個我們都討論過了包含多少年我都非常清楚我是說要趁這一年這一年甚至我們環境部長都想說可以提早是不是半年就可以解決對不對好那我們是不是趁這個機會 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
14456.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
14475.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
強調整個系統整個邏輯上的一個處理趕快的來做這樣更積極的分流包含現在比較低階果菜市場基本上還是初級的市面架空都還把這些可能一些蔬果啦齁這些這些這些下甲料都還把他當成一般市域會期不再處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
14476.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
14504.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
那我是覺得國外很多的這個先進的科技生物科技也好農業科技也好其實都已經巡迴在利用甚至於農業零廢棄我們都朝向這個方向了那現在在家用的部分家務的部分竟然把生廚宇跟熟廚宇又把它混在一塊我覺得這不應該發生啊我要講這個源頭我先講這個簡單的源頭就好家務的廚宇怎麼會容許我們地方政府把生的跟熟的又混在一塊沒有道理啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
14507.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
14531.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
請答我如果它後端的再利用是屬於做堆回的它不見得要分類的時候我們為什麼要強制它要分類如果是屬於生殖冷驗養消化設施的也不需要去分的時候為什麼我們要做這樣的一個分類一般人民百姓聽不清楚市長講的這麼細啦因為後端的再利用的方式來決定前端這600噸如果又把它混在一塊啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
14532.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
14555.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
不要跟一般的垃圾混在一起當然不是一般的垃圾現在就針對生處與跟熟處與為什麼我們可以容許地方政府把垃圾混在一塊因為生或熟收來之後他再利用要看他做什麼樣的再利用好 時間主席在提醒我了我們回顧這一次這個次長跟部長應該很清楚台中的這個疫情調查來看疫情只有兩個關鍵的資訊斷鏈第一個是車輛的軌跡不明 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
14559.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
14581.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
一輛驗出陽性的出移車 其這個行駛的軌跡無法完全掌握這是環境部的問題 輝華流向失控 暗藏私下出移分送給西洋出藏顯示出即便在有納管的情況之下 私下轉運依然猖獗那我要表達說 現在連合法申報的期間 我們都抓不到私下轉運的這些黑數 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
14583.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
14604.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
然後我們現在要全面禁止了喔然後我們要容許地方政府把這樣的生豬與寵物群分在一塊我覺得我現在在邏輯上我是沒辦法接受的市長你要表達那個我聽得清楚但是人民百姓聽不清楚為什麼我們在處理豬與我們禁止豬與養豬的情況之下我們可以默許這樣事情發生啦處長你聽我講什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
14612.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
14633.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
委員你講的是後端的我前段也講我後段也講因為時間的關係我把兩個混在一起講給你聽所以委員是關心的是緩衝期一年期間的事情還是指落日之後的事情我覺得緩衝期會馬上遇到了嘛緩衝只有一年的時間嘛是所以分類上面我們基本上加護的部分我們都不讓他進去了 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
14634.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
14643.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
就沒有所謂分類之後的風險的問題家戶的部分不管生或熟就看地方政府收來的這些廚餘他要做什麼樣的方式再利用 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
14645.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
14666.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
如果他要進魂化爐他也不需要分啦短時間之內如果只能用魂化處理所以你不擔心魂化爐會塞爆不擔心魂化爐因為溺水的問題導致魂化爐又壞掉然後又不能收取其他的一般會氣汙的魂化你都不用擔心這些事情就對了你現在這個部分你跟我講得很清楚我聽得非常清楚所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
14667.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
14685.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
他要不要分類反正到最終都到文化爐來然後反正最終都到堆肥廠所以這一年內你都不需要擔心文化爐的文化量文化廠的問題也不用擔心堆肥廠會去塞爆現在的文化爐壓力最大的就是台中市其他的縣市沒有嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
14686.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
14707.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
台中市最大接下來台北跟新北市長你要跟我講其他縣市沒有嗎有啊有魂化爐我們現在講的是魂化爐其他縣市沒有因為要收取這麼多的原本不需要收取到魂化場去處理的廚藝它不會有問題嗎這個問題你必須要釐清才答覆我你不要急著答覆我我跟你提醒是有問題今天我才到這個委員會來追尋你好 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
14709.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
14724.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
那如果要我現在說明我可以說明但是因為需要一點時間那是不是我現在說明就看主席了不是我的問題書面 好書面是好啦謝謝主席已經站出來了站起來了部長最後一點陳部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
14725.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
14750.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
拜托工地放零山坡地农牧用地一定要积极的快速的赶快来做处理一个月内可以吗我们现在目前已经有做内部的讨论但是至于说是不是开放放零这个还要行政院同意内部的规划我们会先规划一个月内可以有规划的初期报告吗有一些初步的规划可以提供给委员 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
14750.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
14768.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
他只要不要危害這個山坡地的這個保護違反這個生態違反相關的一些法規基本上這些從農的百姓也很多比69年更早之前的都已經在這個地方耕作了那胡耳根有起點的這樣的一個政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
14769 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
14794.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
不應該只有平地還是養殖嘛應該連散播地都應該一併思考才對對 這個我跟委員報告已經內部已經有做一些討論了但是要分兩個部分一個是58527那個案子那是另外一件案子對然後一般的合法的成熟的散播地那是另外一個案子是所以這個部分我們有分開來做一些研議好 一個內能不能出席應該可以提供提供給委員一些一些我們初步的規劃好 就謝謝江邦部長 謝謝謝謝主席 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
14801.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
14808.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
好 接下来陈冠廷陈冠廷陈冠廷委员不在叶炎芝叶炎芝叶炎芝委员不在 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
14810.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
14839.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
登記發言委員除不在場者外其議均已發言完畢詢答結束委員陳冠廷所提書面質詢列入記錄刊登公報書面質詢和未及答覆部分請相關單位以一週內以書面答覆並複製本會委員另要求期限者從期所定本日所列議程處理完畢謝謝大家現在上會 |