| IVOD_ID |
17109 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17109 |
| 日期 |
2025-12-10 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-20-12 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期財政委員會第12次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
12 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期財政委員會第12次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-12-10T08:34:34+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-12-10T12:28:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
03:53:26 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/b41997f390c3528e9c8519356ec592c2737d68251c87da44d5e67b2ed5162375e9468d9dd35f82dc5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-12-10T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期財政委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查「財政收支劃分法」7案：（僅詢答）
(一) 本院委員郭國文等17人、委員賴瑞隆等19人、委員賴瑞隆等17人分別擬具「財政收支劃分法部分條文修正草案」等3案。
(二) 本院委員陳玉珍等19人擬具「財政收支劃分法第八條條文修正草案」案。
(三) 本院委員邱議瑩等26人擬具「財政收支劃分法第十六條之一條文修正草案」案。
(四) 本院委員蔡易餘等17人擬具「財政收支劃分法第十六條之一及第三十條條文修正草案」案。
(五) 本院委員陳玉珍等24人擬具「財政收支劃分法第三十條條文修正草案」案。
二、審查「國家金融安定基金設置及管理條例」2案：（僅詢答）
(一)本院委員郭國文等18人擬具「國家金融安定基金設置及管理條例第四條條文修正草案」案。
(二)本院委員李坤城等18人擬具「國家金融安定基金設置及管理條例第四條及第五條條文修正草案」案。
【12月10日及11日二天一次會】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:34:34 - 12:28:00 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
1554.71 |
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請主任秘書報告出席委員人數先讓主秘先報告完好不好報告委員會出席委員與主法定人數現在開始開會請議事人員宣讀上次會議的議事錄陳旭發言啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1582.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1594.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
我要特別確認今天只有詢答不進行處理我希望把它列入會議紀錄今天是詢答對今天是詢答不處理不處理列入會議紀錄好謝謝請議事員宣讀議事錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1609.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1636.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
立法院第十一屆第四會期財政委員會第十一次全體委員會議事錄時間綜合名歸14年12月4號星期四九十一分至十十六分地點群修樓九樓大禮堂出席委員林德福委員等十三人列席委員葉元之委員等六人列席官員財政部部長莊翠雲經濟部常事賴建信及其所屬單位代表交通部環境部衛福部法務部各縣市政府及其所屬各單位代表及其相關人員等 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1636.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1656.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
主席林昭吉委員施明報告事項宣讀上市會議議事錄決定議事錄確定變更議程案由針對本次財政委員會全體委員會議討論事項建議請甄烈委員陳俊宇等二十人已具使用牌照稅法第五條條文修正草案案提案委員吳秉瑞郭國文賴會員李坤臣 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1657.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1675.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
決議通過討論事項一繼續審查使用牌照稅二十九案行政院判決審議本院委員邱振軍的十九人委員陳昌明的十八人委員羅明才等二十人委員廖偉祥等十九人委員楊瓊英等二十七人委員徐宇震等二十二人委員邱若驊等十七人委員林俊憲的二十六人委員黃洪維等十九人 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1676.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1696.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
委員李燕秀等16人委員蘇清泉等18人委員徐欣穎等24人委員郭玉琴等19人委員王美惠等19人委員李昆城等18人委員羅廷偉等17人委員郭國文等18人委員吳佩儀等17人委員葛如軍等16人委員沈發慧等17人委員吳思明等22人委員賴世保等25人 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1696.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1720.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
委員黃建豪等20人分別擬據使用牌照稅法第5條條文修正草案等24案2 本院臺灣民眾黨團擬據使用牌照稅法第5條及第7條條文修正草案案3 委員廖先祥等17人擬據使用牌照稅法第5條及第18條條文修正草案案4 委員牛許廷等17人擬據委員鍾嘉斌等16人擬據使用牌照稅法第7條條文修正草案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1722.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1743.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
5 委員廖偉祥等17人擬拒使用牌照稅法第7條及第38條條文修正草案案2 審查使用牌照稅法17案1 本院委員陳樹岳等21人委員吳立華等16人委員馬洋君等16人委員羅美玲等18人委員寬恆等17人委員葉燕琴等17人委員葉燕姿等20人委員徐富奎等17人委員陳昌明等16人 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1744.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1762.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
委員丁學中等18人 委員張志倫 委員徐巧熙等23人委員外美林等18人 委員洪茉凱等19人委員翁曉林等18人 委員陳俊宇等20人分別擬具使用牌照稅法第5條條文修正草案等16案 二委員林思明等23人擬具使用牌照稅法第7條條文修正草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1763.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1791.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
決議一審查結果第五條保留送院會處理通過附帶決議一項二行政行政審議本院委員邱振均等19人委員陳湯米等18人委員陸斌財等20人委員廖偉湘等19人委員楊秋英等27人委員徐宇震等22人委員邱樂華等17人委員林俊憲等26人委員王宏偉等19人委員彥秀等16人委員朱新泉等18人委員徐欣穎等24人委員郭玉琴等19人委員王美惠等19人委員李坤臣等18人委員盧洛廷惠等17人 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1791.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
1818.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
委員郭國文等十八人委員佩玉等十七人委員葛如君等十六人委員沈發輝等十七人委員林思明等二十二人委員賴世寶等二十五人委員黃建華等二十人委員陳樹業等二十一人委員吳立華等十六人委員馬文君等十六人委員羅美玲等十八人委員寬恆等十七人委員林月琴等十七人委員葉延之等二十人委員徐富奎等十七人委員陳昌明等十六人委員丁學忠等十八人委員張志倫等十七人委員徐巧興等二十三人 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
1819.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
1845.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
委員外邁林等18人 委員洪茉凱等19人委員翁曉琳等18人 委員陳俊銘等20人分別領據使用牌照稅法第5條條文修正草案等事實案及委員賴世寶等7人 委員林思明等4人所提使用牌照稅法第5條條文修正動議審查完均並案領據審查報告提報院會討論 院會討論前需交給黨團寫上院會討論時由林昭吉委員思明補充說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
1846.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
1870.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
三 臺灣民眾黨團已據使用牌照稅法第五條及第七條條文修正草案案委員廖先祥等17人已據使用牌照稅法第五條及第38條條文修正草案案委員劉許廷等17人委員鍾嘉斌等16人委員林詩敏等23人分別已據使用牌照稅法第七條條文修正草案案等三案委員廖偉祥等17人已據使用牌照稅法第七條及第38條條文修正草案案均則期繼續審查 宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
1876.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
1885.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
請問各位委員對議事人員宣讀上次會議議事錄有異議好 議事錄確定請議事人員宣讀今日議程 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
1886.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
1909.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
1 审查财政收支划分法7案今日仅询答1 本院委员郭国文等17人委员赖瑞荣等19人委员赖瑞荣等17人分别拟据财政收支划分法部分条文修正草案等3案2 委员陈玉珍等19人拟据财政收支划分法第8条条文修正草案案3 委员邱毅英等26人拟据财政收支划分法第16条之1条文修正草案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
1910.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
1935.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
4.委員蔡玉儀等17人擬具財政收支劃分法第16條之一及第30條條文修正草案案5.委員陳玉珍等24人擬具財政收支劃分法第30條條文修正草案案2.審查國家金融安定基金設置及管理條例二案今日僅詢答1.本院委員郭國文等18人擬具國家金融安定基金設置及管理條例第4條條文修正草案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
1936.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
1944.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
案二委員李昆城等18人女巨國家信訪安定基金設置及管理條例第四條及第五條條文修正草案案宣讀完畢好我先介紹這個在場的委員吳秉瑞委員林德福委員邱益穎委員張祺凱委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
1967.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
1992.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
好 我來介紹今天的與會的官員財政部部長 莊翠雲法制處處長 姚瑩國庫署署長 陳柏成賦稅署署長 宋秀玲官務署副署長 蘇淑珍國有財產署署長 曾國基財政資訊中心主任 張文希 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
1995.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2022.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
國家金融安地基金管理委員會執行秘書阮清華次長行政院主計總署陳慧娟副主計長公務預算處處長徐永毅國家發展委員會經濟發展處專門委員劉齊悅經濟部產業發展署副署長周宇新水利署副總工程師周文祥 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2025.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2052.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
地質調查及礦業管理中心專門委員李政鴻農業部政務次長黃昭清會計處副署長黃文齊綜合規劃司司長蔡巧蓮農民輔導司檢任計政王東良志願永續利用司檢任計政林永炎農糧署副署長黃昭新 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2054.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2082.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
林業及自然保育署副署長廖一光農村發展及水土保持署組長黃政權環境部大氣環環境司檢任計政呂承祥內政部地政司專門委員何俊達交通部會計處處長黃鴻文中華郵政股份有限公司副主任委員王婉如 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2084.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2109.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
劳动部劳动基金运用局局长苏玉清刑事部公务人员退休抚恤基金管理局局长陈明贤财务组组长吕明珠法务部法治司参事廖江宪好 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2111.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2131.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
今日我們審查財政收支劃分法七案還有審查國家金融安定基金設置及管理條例兩案請詢答我們先請提案委員說明提案要旨後再請財政部莊部長行政院主計總處陳副主計長慧娟回應委員提案內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2133.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2152.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
我們每位委員的提案說明三分鐘我們先請郭國文委員說明提案要旨郭國文委員郭國文委員不在接下來請陳玉珍委員說明提案要旨陳玉珍委員陳玉珍委員不在場接下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2153.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2168.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
請李坤成委員說明提案要旨沒關係 我就等一下在一起再說明就可以了接下來請賴瑞榮委員說明提案要旨賴瑞榮委員不在場接下來請邱奕穎委員說明提案要旨 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2179.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2206.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
主席各位同仁各位列席的官員大家早安本席針對現行的財政收支劃分法第16條之一本席提出了修正的版本那我想這一次的財化法修正的修法的核心精神我想不應該只是在單純的搶錢而是應該要矯正結構失衡跟落實負擔正義 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2207.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2230.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
過去的一年經過國民黨民眾黨藍白聯手二修數次的才化法版本已經過度偏重人口與盈利事業營業額的指標這樣的分配邏輯導致了兩個嚴重性的結構性問題第一個是富者越富忽視了外部的成本 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2231.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2246.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
北部人口稠密企業總部群聚享有分配的優勢而中南部承擔了重工業的污染發電空污以及糧食生產的責任卻因人口老化與產業的結構長期處於分配的劣勢 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2250.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2277.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
第二忽视了服务员广大的治理成本就举高雄为例高雄市的土地面积是台北市的十倍以上基础建设如道路水利的维护成本极高但是现行的公示之中土地面积的权重过低无法反映真实的财政需求因此本席的版本修正草案提出四个具体改革方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2278.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2292.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
第一 我希望能夠調整分配的權重反映真實的治理成本我們將土地面積的權重由10%提高到20%以合理反映服務員廣大縣市的公共建設維護需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2294.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2299.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
同時我也將人口權重有45%調降為35%營業額有30%調降為25%希望能夠平衡城鄉差距第二刪除財產稅成長率的指標導正不當誘因 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2311.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2338.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
原来的指标变相奖励房价上涨与不动产交易热络的都会区违背调剂财政营需的精神本席主张予以删除避免助长炒房第三导入三大负担补偿指标实现分配正义第一个是环境负荷指数我们希望针对承担碳排空污重工业产值的城市给予补偿 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2339.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2360.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
第二 糧食安全指數我們要肯定農業縣市對於守護國家安全糧食供給的貢獻第三 高齡人口的指數也要列入希望能夠協助老化社會面臨龐大的社福支出的時候也能夠得到政府的肯定第四 我希望能夠完備二級分配與離島裁員修正離島分配 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2365.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2387.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
分配的措施所有錯誤並明定鄉鎮市分配公示須由中央與地方協商後送立法院備查確保透明化本席的版本經過試算能夠有效的為高雄爭取更多的資源更重要的是他建立了一套 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2388.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2410.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
誰承擔誰負擔誰就應該獲得支持的這樣的一個公平邏輯懇請各位委員予以支持以上謝謝好謝謝邱委員接下來我們請蔡易瑜委員來說明蔡易瑜委員蔡易瑜委員不在場好那我們接下來請財政部莊部長回應委員的提案內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2416.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2423.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
主席各位委員先進大家好今天貴委員會審查才化法修正案總共有七案 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2424.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2447.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
緊就本次審查個體案的版本以及行政院函請大院審議的修正草案規劃情形我們並按提報告如下另外有關支出面還有補助制度的規劃那後續會由主席總處來做補充說明首先就行政院草案的規劃情形做報告為了使財政資源分配落實均衡城鄉均衡台灣的目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2448.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2473.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
本部參酌多數學者專家還有地方政府的意見並會同主計總署拟據了財化法部分條文修正草案經過行政院114年11月20號院會通過並且在同日送請大院審議僅就本次修法設本部業務部分的規劃重點如下第一個我們在垂直的錢權分配是更為合理我們經過行政院就事權及支出權責通盤檢討規劃擴大 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2477.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2493.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
統籌稅款的規模並且調整一般性及計劃型補助款的規模使地方財源增加同時兼顧中央財政的穩健第二個就是水平城鄉的分配更公平規劃統籌稅款分配的方式入法 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2494.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2509.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
直轄市還有縣市按照同一個公式來分配我們會優先滿足地方政府基本財政收支差額以及搭配財源保障的機制並且精進財政奴隸和基本建設需求來分配指標 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2509.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2519.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
使財源的分配能夠更公平第三個是國民的生活品質可以更均衡我們把地方自行辦理屬於地方自治事項而涉及全民基本生活福祉具有均衡性普遍性常態辦理的事項納入基本財政需要額來計算由統籌稅款優先補足該需要額與基本財政收入額之間的差額 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2536.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2551.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
使各地區的國民能夠獲得一定的生活品質和公共服務第四個我們會提升地方財政紀律使地方自治更為強化我們增訂統籌稅款是為地方政府違反財政紀律四項的扣減標的 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2553.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2581.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
并且授权由全责机关在相关办法中来定定以符合授权明确性的原则第二个本次审查各提案版本与行政院草案的延期比较首先是中央释出税收规模的部分各委员提案涉及税客收入的划分调整由郭国文委员提案及赖瑞荣委员所提的两案鉴于财劃法修正前的救治统筹税款规模不足以全数弥补 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2581.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2597.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
各地方政府基本財政收支的差額需要另外以一般性補助款來補足所以在行政院的草案裡面就適度的擴大統籌稅款的規模比114年度修法前我們增加釋出的中央統籌稅款規模達到3537億元將更能滿足地方的基本財政需求並兼顧中央財政韌性 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2606.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2622.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
第二个税收直接分成的部分郭委员所提案减少市及乡镇市移政税收入的这个部分以审慎的评估那么陈委员郁真所提案调整烟酒税分成的规定和行政院草案规划的方向是一致的 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2623.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2639.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
第三個是水平分配的部分賴瑞榮委員提案的兩案等兩案以及邱委員及蔡委員提案等四案的水平分配公式都是按一定的比例來分配給地方政府鑒於採取比例入法 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2640.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2656.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
因應地方組織調整的實際需要如果能夠按照行政院草案的規劃將有利於因應未來行政區劃的調整第二個涉及統籌稅款分配指標調整的提案總共有五案總共有重點如下污染的相關指標 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2657.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2685.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
利益非常好但是所提的指標是否符合關聯性普遍性客觀性這個原則並可取得相關的公開數據需要進一步的研議那麼行政院草案已經把盈利事業的營業額和工業人口納為分配指標並就中高污染事業就業人口採加成計算那麼對於增加地方污染防治成本部分我們提供了適度的回饋第二個農業及國土保育相關指標 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2686.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2694.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
有關兼顧地區發展的差異行政院草案已經把農林漁牧就業人口以及農林漁牧的產值作為分配的指標 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2695.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2719.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
同時農牧用地並採取加成計算我們來適度的回饋農業縣份的貢獻國土保育用地則採取打折計算以合理反映地方政府土地使用以及管理維護的成本第三有關高齡人口的相關指標可以合理反映高齡化增加地方政府施政的支出那麼行政院草案也把65歲以上人口 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2719.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2739.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
采加成计算以利均衡区域的发展第四个有关发电量指标考量不具有普遍性而且电厂设置是配合国家以及民生发展的政策衍生的外部性问题寻补助方式办理比较适宜在于其他的部分国委员提案把普通税款 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2741.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2768.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
40%优先来弥补基整财政收支差额余数再按照指标分配给各市县前开的额度是否足额弥补已需要另外的审慎考量最后的结语本次行政院的草案前后多达六次邀集会商充分的听取地方政府的意见并参着多数专家学者建议审慎的规划是目前最具有共识的版本敬请大院各位委员支持将该修正草案复为 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2769.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2781.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
并按审查以制定更为完善的分配机制以上说明敬请各位委员指教谢谢好谢谢庄部长接下来我们请主席总处陈副主席长回应委员提案内容 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2790.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2814.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
主席 各位委員 女士 先生以下緊究財政收支劃分法的修正提出簡要的說明如下首先我們中央在對地方財政大力的協助下其實地方的財政已經大幅的改善我們透過中央統籌分配稅款 一般性補助款 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2815.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2825.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
及計劃型補助款三項財源來協助地方所以近年這個地方的財源呈現穩定的成長 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2826.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
2833.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
到了這個115年度已經高達一兆1683億比114年度增加1552億元由於這些年來中央持續挹注地方使得地方的財政獲得明顯改善整體 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
2849.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
2855.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
稅入稅出的餘處已經由101年度的短處589億元在108年度反轉為剩餘並在113年度剩餘高達818億元 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
2865.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
2885.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
另外一年以上未償債務餘額也由105年度的高峰8689億元降到113年度的7433億元這個都是中央和地方共同努力的一個成果 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
2885.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
2915.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
接著說明大院在113年跟114年兩次財化法的修正對中央施政的影響由於113年12月20號刪讀的財化法修正案大幅削減中央可運用的財源卻又限制中央給地方的一般性補助款不得減少所以衝擊中央施政的量能 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
2915.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
2936.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
而114年11月14號三讀通過的修正案更明定對地方補助款最低補助比例及補助額度等等以至於中央確實有諸多自愛難行之處主要包括違反公共債務法 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
2936.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
2954.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
以及限制了行政預算權等等的自愛難行所以我們行政院在114年11月20號已經提出院版財化法修正這個草案兼顧中央跟地方施政需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
2955.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
2979.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
財源跟事權並同考量可以使國民生活品質更均衡垂直的錢權劃分更合理水平的分配更公平地方自治更強化中央地方的夥伴關係更提升包括我們透過中央統籌分配稅款支應資本 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
2980.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
2992.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
基本財政需要而讓地方都有經費執行均衡性的普遍性的跟常態性的地方自治事項另外也能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
2994.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3013.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
比舊版的財化法增加四出一千八百七十億元所以可以保障地方政府中央統籌分配稅款一般性補助款跟計劃型補助款三者合計不低於一百一十四年度的貨配額度 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3014.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3043.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
同時我們也讓一般性補助款維持教育社福基本設施三項的設算而重大建設軌道建設跟跨區域跟配合國家重大政策則透過計劃型的補助款協助地方建設不中斷來提升人民生活的品質最後在這裡衷心期望為了國家均衡的發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3044.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3059.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
讓中央有能力來協助地方地方也有充足自主財源共同創造人民生活品質更均等所以希望能夠支持我們行政院版的財化法以上 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3062.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3091.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
好 谢谢陈副组织长现在开始询答先做以下的宣告第一 每位初席委员发言时间8分钟必要时得延长2分钟每位列席委员发言时间5分钟第二 今日上午10点截止发言登记第三 本次会议委员若有相关修正登记请进送主席台 并便议事人员整理第四 现已登记顺序请登记第一位的林德福委员质询 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3102.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3110.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
謝謝主席是不是請主計總署的陳副主計長還有莊部長請莊部長陳副主計長委員好委員早安早我想因為賴總統上個禮拜三說今年經濟成長率 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3127.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3154.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
預測上修到7.37%創15年來的新高他強調這個執政黨的使命就是要把亮眼的數字轉換成人民有感的日常生活讓民眾繼續共享經濟的果實那經濟成長數字要讓人民日常有感全民同步有感 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3157.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3162.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
調薪啦那請問主計長你認為副主計長請問你認為政府有能力做到嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3164.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3187.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
跟委員報告就是說我們的經濟成長率上調到7.37那這方面就是說我們產業的發展非常調心有沒有辦法就是透過他們在稅收不管是營業所得稅 綜合所得稅等各項稅收來貢獻會讓全民來貢獻那貢獻你有沒有調心因為低薪 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3193.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3216.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
第一些我們最近的這個最近這幾個月其實我們實質薪資的成長都超過我們的物價指數所以實質薪資都有成長那麼你要是說真的沒有辦法調那你認為是不是要提前宣布延續今年土花現金的政策是不是也是一個好的辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3217.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3236.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
就是說普發現金當然是共享的模式之一但是同樣的錢如果我們有更大的效益也許在重大的投資方面會更有效益如果政府要把那個錢都是要去搞國防一萬兩千五百億你認為這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3241.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3260.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
是不是如果政府做不到那你認為我不是說一萬兩千五百億做不到只不過是你都把它投資在國防上面今年已經變了九千四百九十五億另外賴總統又要增加一萬兩千五百億那我請問明年的所得稅貨物稅減輕的做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3262.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3271.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
美化成經濟果實的共享但卻看得到吃不到啦在這種低薪的環境裡是不是更噁心多數民眾的爛招嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3274.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3289.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
當然國防是一定是要先有一個有一個安全的環境我們各項的不管經濟等等才能發展因為你這樣子讓人家感覺是不是更噁心因為這種變成一個爛招你想經濟成長很高沒有錯實際上 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3294.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3308.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
人民有享受到嗎 沒有啊對不對 主席長 副主席長沒講到普派現金政府官員只會對在野黨明帶 攻防回應說實在話啦本席看不出真正虛心來面對問題的一個態度 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3311.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3331.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
主席長也說從今年到明年台灣經濟都是穩健的上升的態勢所以在高基期下預測2026年經濟成長仍有3.54%如果按照國內機構的看法明年經濟成長率的高基期下的回落 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3332.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3347.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
台美這個談判與AI投資續航成關鍵再加上國外機構也提出明年台灣內需沒有提升出口有效出口有緩緩的餘率所以說對台灣GDP預測值都在3%以下 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3354.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3360.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
那請問要是那個副主席這樣你認為主計總數明年GDP的預測會不會過於樂觀 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3363.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3391.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
跟委員報告就是說我們這個預測事實上就是每三個月會滾動檢討一次所以我們會隨時注意整個全球的環境來做一個檢討剛剛委員關心的其實低薪的問題我們有一直在持續關心我們認為這的確是一個要注意的問題我們會透過各項比如說弱勢的幫助社會保障支出來說短縮減貧富的差距 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3393.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3401.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
如果不是過於樂觀那到底我們明年經濟成長率超過3%的最大優勢條件到底是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3403.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3423.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
我們主要是我們在最近尤其是AI產業等等我們的整個產業鏈非常的完整但是那個傳統產業慘兮兮對不對因為關稅的問題根本就政府到現在為止都沒有拿出真正的辦法那些傳統產業根本就 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3426.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3446.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
幾乎啦 他們沒有辦法生存有 我們有注意到傳統產業的目前面臨的困境那經濟部也提出很多就是說優惠貸款或者說協助他升級AI等等的方案那些都反不及急啦大家都清清楚楚我想今天的會議程序之一就是要把國安基金規模從現行的五千億擴大到一兆以上並且取消 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3452.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3475.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
持有股票向銀行借款和四大基金周轉的限額副處長身為國安基金管理委員之一請問你的看法媒體報導說國安基金護盤時四大基金可動用的部位已經很少在歷次護盤中國安基金幾乎都沒有向四大基金來調度護盤額度 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3478.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3497.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
只有限於向銀行借款的兩千億元那主計總署修法打算將基金規模擴大到一兆以上換句話說銀行借款周轉限額可能上調到七千億那我請問公股銀行借給國安基金的錢從哪裡來 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3502.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3519.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
國安基金主要是財政部他們來作為幕僚的機關就我們的了解就是說這個規模主要是各界基於這個股市的整個規模大幅的成長莊部長你來看這個部分你怎麼看 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3520.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3544.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
跟委員報告因為對於要放寬國安基金借款7000億現額你怎麼看由於國內的股市跟當時國安基金成立之前已經差了非常大的一個差距另外5000億的額度裡面3000億是四大基金但四大基金可動用的金額有限所以大概就是2000億可動用就是以融資的方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3545.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3571.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
因此各界包含我們在國安基金裡面的委員都有這些方面的疑慮認為適度要擴大基金的規模部長因為國安基金設置及管理條例第四條第一項第一款以國庫所持有之公民銀行公民銀事業股票為擔保向金融機構來借款 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3571.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3583.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
借款最高額度新台幣2000億元那請問部長國庫持有股票是指財政部持有還是中央政府各部會持有的股票 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3584.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3610.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
這裡面的股當然是包含各部會還有財政部所管股權事業的股票全部涵蓋就對了全部涵蓋 是的 謝謝股票是流通性的有價證券而設定擔保後正常來說是沒有辦法自由買賣那我請問部長假如基金規模擴大政府是否會保證這些提供擔保借款的舊股市股票 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3612.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3628.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
一定不會讓銀行虧損 可以保證嗎有關這個國安基金他目前來說是授權如果是護盤是只有授權我們執行秘書來做操盤那今天執行秘書也在現場我們是不是可以由執行秘書來回答您這個說明這個問題好 那個阮 阮次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3634.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3657.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
包委員 假定這個國安基金的規模規模就是說像銀行借款有現在的兩千億元提高到七千億元的話那基本上我們還是會向金融機構來貸款那這一部分以目前的金融機構的這個貸款能量來講是沒有問題的那我請問如果政府保證會不會有圖利特定人的餘率 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3658.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3687.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
會不會我們國安基金沒有什麼保證的問題這樣喔反之如果政府不能保證那提供資金借款救市的銀行風險是不是大幅度的提高會不會我覺得剛好是顛倒如果是說我們把這個國安基金的規模如果拉高的話我覺得對股市的穩定還有就是投資人的信心一定有很大的幫助因為現在的2000元其實真的是非常的那是25年前的標準這樣喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3688.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3702.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
那現在已經這個股市的規模還有就是外資的持股的能量還有就是日均的成交值都大幅度的提高所以在這種情況之下兩千億真的是非常的辛苦了 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3705.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3713.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
市長那你回去我來請教部長上一次國安基金進場護盤的時間已經是護盤史上最長的紀錄那我請問部長從今年4月8日護盤後你認為這一次是不是有機會再度創下最長護盤的時間紀錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3724.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3743.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
有關國安基金護盤進場或者是什麼時候退場是由委員會來共同討論來做決定的那他們在委員會裡面會有根據相關的一些資本市場金融市場的一個情勢大家來分析討論部長因為從今年4月上旬台股最低點國安基金進場護盤到今天上漲超過1萬點以上那我請問如果護盤的國安基金要退場你認為應該是 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3754.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3778.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
成就哪些因素以目前整個大盤上萬點的上漲趨勢你認為這次國安基金的操作績效和投資報酬力是不是有很大機會能夠創新高請簡短回答國安基金不是以賺錢為目的它是以穩定金融市場跟資本市場為目標好啦 其他我下次再問 謝謝謝謝委員謝謝林委員接下來我們請吳秉瑞委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3791.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
3816.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
主席麻煩請陳副組計長請陳副組計長委員好副組長請教一下現在本院對於明年度的預算審查進行到什麼程度你知道嗎就是說目前都還沒有付所以今天12月20號了正常的會期是到12月31號 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
3818.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
3836.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
現在當然有人提案說要延一個月我看他們多數表決會過結果12月的時候預算還沒有付尾我看你今年大概省不到了今年省不到1月31號以前也可能省不到這個會期有可能預算沒有辦法審查怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
3839.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
3863.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
是 我們也非常對這件事情非常的擔憂因為預算是關乎我們的施政能不能繼續穩定的前進尤其我們115年度的預算不管是中央跟地方我們都已經有過多次的溝通而且已經分別都編列了預算送到各自的民意機關在審議了 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
3865.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
3888.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
那以中央來講如果說我們這個預算一直遲遲沒有通過的話會影響到很多的計畫都不能執行比如我們有一個健康台灣的這個計畫裡面包含讓我們能夠彈性的每個人需要疫苗的時候都有疫苗可以打這個70億就沒有辦法執行還有 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
3889.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
3917.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
關乎我們的這個環境我們這個會這個整治這個治水的預算這個四年一千億也無法執行還有這個都是跟大家息息相關的還有我們攸關國際競爭力的AI十大產業的這個計畫也無法執行另外就通勤組我們通勤組九十七萬人的這個通勤組T-PASS的這個計畫也無法執行還有 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
3918.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
3947.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
涉及到12萬預算如果沒有審查照法律規定你的新增計畫都不能做了對 所有的這個新興的計畫能不能列出來把這個項目列出來讓社會大眾知道啊好 我們會來努力那你知道現在不審查的原因是什麼嗎現在不審查的原因就是說不復違啦 到現在還不復違的原因是什麼你知道嗎當然就是說跟軍警有關待遇相關的這個部分只有這一項而已嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
3949.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
3953.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
另外就是才化法剛修正的11月14號的這個版本的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
3956.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
3978.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
11月14號才劃法這個版本它非常的自愛難行因為我們在8月底中央跟地方都已經把預算送到民營機關來審議了所以這個11月14號才通過我們的預算完全無法回溯所以這個有它的自愛難行我先問一個比較程序的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
3979.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
3994.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
其實以我了解現在地方政府的議會無論是直轄市或是各縣市都已經在審查預算了那他們的明年的預算關於中央政府補助還有統籌分配稅款的部分如果中央的這個預算審查沒有過他們拿得到嗎就會受到影響影響是怎麼樣的影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4000.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4025.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
就是說我們主要就是可能個別部會必須去界定哪一些是新興的新興的就一定會受影響那因為115年度這個制度的變革比較大所以新興的會比較多我提早我現在建議你們你要提早爬書提早整理好不好不要到時候你才在那邊緊張我跟你講現在地方政府地方的議會都在審預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4026.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4052.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
因為我有服務團隊 我服務團隊裡面有議員他們就跟我講說現在在審預算中央的要給他的補助 中央的統籌分配稅款他們其實都有量定之後再去審當然他們可以周轉 他們可以先借一下然後如果你中央撥下來之後他再頂問題是如果中央一直撥不下去中央撥不下去的影響程度到底會到什麼程度你能不能先概估一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4053.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4073.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
現在如果沒有撥款下去應該蠻多地方政府他在調度的能力因為他這次影響的範圍比較廣所以那個調度的能力應該是不夠所以地方的很多的建設都還有跟地方有關的一些社會福利的項目都會受到影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4074.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4100.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
沒有辦法因為現在有人看法是說立法機關我用法律的規定規定你要硬性支出搶奪你的行政權嘛那你現在這樣的法律剛剛你講說你們的看法是自愛難行我舉個例子他軍人一定要加薪多少錢軍人加薪應該是行政機關的權利嘛但立法機關又跟你立法那我將來如果人多我可不可以立法立一個說立法委員每個人每個月要加薪兩百萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4102.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4112.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
那立個法你要不要執行所以我舉這樣子的例子是說有時候這個東西是要經過大家協商大家研判那現在不省預算那現在把總預算當作肉票啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4113.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4139.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
擄人勒鼠你聽過嘛擄人勒鼠是抓人要拿錢嘛對不對那現在是擄總預算不讓你審查然後硬要逼你 你一定要吞下去嘛 對不對所以這在我來看跟擄人勒鼠有接近啦所以你的總預算會變成肉票真的沒辦法審所以你現在應該要趕快爬出來你不要等到12月底他說要延後一個月然後1月底你才跟人家講早點跟人家講讓人家早做準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4141.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4166.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
對不對 你覺得呢是 我們應該要來做這些事情我是希望能夠了解說如果真的沒有預算審查影響最大的是我知道大家的薪水都可以領 沒有問題因為照以前的法律規定你薪水都照領但是新興計畫都不能做原有的計畫 原有的舊有的計畫也只能夠做多少只能做一部分 不是百分之百就是以上年度的執行數為天花板 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4167.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4195.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
上年度的執行組的天花板所以增加的預算都沒有了對好那你要把這個仔細的整理出來提早讓透過媒體讓全民知道預算不審查所造成的後果先古人說不教而殺為之虐你先把這個造成的危害講在前面說清楚講明白將來發生的人家才不會怪在你頭上不然你希望你以後主計部財政部吃不完兜著走 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4197.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4215.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
是你贊不贊成我這個說法是 尤其就是說其實預算就我施政的表現那如果預算一直沒有過未來這個責任政治就會不清楚不清楚 他不在乎啊他現在在跟你搞政治他還不管你預算審查都已經把這個總預算當作肉票了他還管你這個嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4219.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4240.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
那你要讓國民知道說哪一些讓他們講清楚現在因為很多民眾很多國民的觀念裡面政府是一體的所以譬如說他拿不到租屋補貼到底我是應該要怪地方政府還是要怪中央政府還是要怪審查預算的這一些立法委員他們搞不清楚狀況啊那 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4241.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4266.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
我在外面走我在我的選區走常常被這樣問愛委員我們那個補助到底有沒有我也沒辦法回答他因為你預算沒有審查我也不知道那個補助會不會有我也不知道那個補助是應該要中方政府來付還是地方政府來付我也沒辦法回答他所以我現在都只能跟他講說你到服務處來我找那個秘書他們找那個行政機關跟你查詢查詢之後再回答你連我 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4268.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4292.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
都搞得不清不楚的那你現在跟一般的人怎麼會搞得清楚呢所以是什麼樣的情況造成哪一些的補助會變成沒有辦法下來這是誰的權責是地方政府該給的補助還是中央政府該給的補助地方政府拿不到中央撥款之後他可能也沒辦法補助那他也可能轉頭他賴給說中央政府不給我錢所以我沒有辦法補助你 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4293.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4305.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
就像現在不是最近在討論那個什麼罰單嗎交通違規的罰單一大堆就說仔細去看原來地方政府拿了75%警察單位拿了24%那只有1%是拿來怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4309.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4337.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
結果很多人搞不清楚以為開罰單就是交通部給我搞的每一個人都罵交通部我每次都跟他看說你看看罰單上面寫誰如果在我們新北市就是新北市政府警察局交通違規罰單我都會拿給他看新北市政府警察局他說不管啦反正也是交通部那邊訂的法律啦反正都怪你們就對了要賴給清德就好啦所有的不如意所有的不愉快全部都賴給政府就好了都賴給清德就好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4338.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4355.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
所以我是希望冤有頭債有主啦不要造成這樣的狀況那你可不可以告訴我你多久可以這個東西可以爬出清楚我希望有一天在媒體上看到也不用你來跟我報告我希望在媒體上看到講清楚說明白這個會造成什麼樣的影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4356.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4368.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
有沒有辦法跟委員報告就是委員講的這個這非常的重要那其實我們已經持續都對外說明說預算沒有過的這個影響哪有 我就很少看到那我們會再更大力的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4371.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4391.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
因為妳講得不夠仔細啊妳沒有跟人講說妳的租屋補貼還會不會有妳每一年給年輕人讀大學的讀私立大學這些補助還有沒有等等這些妳要講清楚啊妳沒有講清楚就講說我過了會很慘那民眾聽了很慘是怎麼樣很慘我不知道很慘是什麼意思 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4393.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4417.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
就是我們了解就是說我們院裡面會請各部會趕快去會診他的相關心境計畫的沒有過的影響對啊 因為責任政治就是要可以可以那個啊可以知道誰在搞我誰在搞鬼然後我受害要找誰這個一定要弄清楚不然的話搞不清楚狀況我怎麼知道我這只好賴給反正都賴給政府就好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4418.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4428.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
千萬不要這樣啊誰做對不對 始作俑者岂其無後乎誰作勇誰負責好不好好 我們會跟部會來合作 謝謝謝謝吳委員接下來我們請賴世保委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4443.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4448.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
謝謝主席以及各位先進有請財政部的莊部長好 請莊部長委員長部長早這個我們看到媒體有報導說輝達H200晶片可以銷中國大陸但是中間美國要抽成25%要台灣買單 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4470.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4494.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
這個要台灣買單啦這個我們財政部邊預算啦他賣東西給美國 給大陸結果要被抽百分之二十五佣金 要台灣買單你怎麼看這個事啊我想對於媒體的報導我覺得還需要大家要進一步的確認不過他已經這樣講了啊美國政府都這樣川普說這個要抽百分之二十五啊台灣買單啊 他說進口稅啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4497.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4526.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
我想這個部分還是要進一步的確認所以你不知道不知道這個事是 我覺得後面需要進一步確認那我現在就是說我問你就是說如果要台灣政府買單你接受嗎我想這個什麼叫做台灣政府買單輝達去把晶片賣給大陸那台灣買單是怎麼個買單對啊 莫比奇妙啊怎麼會有這樣子這需要進一步了解我覺得這個詳細的內容我們經常是從媒體上看到也許事實如何我們都需要進一步的確認 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4527.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4543.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
這個等於扒兩層皮 奇怪了生意人在做錢 他在賺所以我們來復活 這是莫名其妙這個東西怎麼會這個樣子我們回到今天的國安基金了國安基金 阮次長可以上來我們看到我們歷屆總共八次復盤只有一次 2000年10月2號 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4552.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4556.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
超過1000例 其他都沒有超過1000例沒有 一次也沒有然後呢 這個是報酬率6.22%到53.21%所以每一次進場都賺錢 幾乎都是當然有些媒體把他說你什麼時候有一次虧不過我們看全部的Lampson他賺錢6.22%到53.多% |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4580.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4593.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
國安基金的成立背景是李前總統李登輝時代他因為接受德國之音的訪問他要拋出一個特殊的兩國論所以他成立這個國安基金怕影響股市全世界幾乎沒有像台灣這樣的國安基金 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4601.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4617.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
都沒有有那個機制但是幾乎沒有專門因應股市的像香港 中國大陸 日本 韓國 新加坡他們都是用機制不是用我們叫成立一個基金專門對付 應付股市的波動 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4620.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4632.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
這個部長你不覺得我們五千億夠了因為最多就八次裡面只有一次超過一千億其他都是低於一千億你看還有一次2020的3月只有7.6億這個2004的5月只有16億綽綽有餘 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4640.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4652.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
跟股市的市值90幾億沒有關係啊我們國外基金主要是怕市場失靈市場失靈是要看量沒有教育量這個市場就沒有了 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4657.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4671.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
無量下跌這個時候國安基金應該要進場可是現在來講都沒有這種事情發生你要不要回答一下而且今天是委員的提案沒有行政院的版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4673.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4691.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
其實有什麼立場沒有你們支不支持要不要增加5000億跟委員報告國安基金成立的到現在從民國89年到現在已經超過25年了那這樣的一個情況它的市值從我們的報告裡面國安基金委員會的報告裡面寫得非常清楚成長的倍數非常高 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4692.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4712.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
另外外資的比例也佔的高那在國安基金目前雖然是五千億但是有三千億是四大基金來融資但是四大基金本身他自己也有所投資所以能動用幾乎沒有動用過那因此只有兩千億可以去融資那在實際上在運作上在國安基金的委員會裡面也有委員提出這樣的一個建議認為這個規模事實上應該要更是你沒有回答我的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4718.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4738.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
過去的八次裡面只有一次超過一千億錯錯有餘啊你現在你要講說我就要兩千億可以用但是三千億你一樣可以集中調度啊四大基金你也可以集中調度不是不能調度我是告訴你部長啊你要增加五千億是什麼概念你要借錢喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4739.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4760.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
利率多少這個部分是不是實際操作由我們執行秘書來回答來 秘書請市長 利率多少利率現在是1.4多5千億乘以1.4多就是七十幾億就是我每一年我沒有進場 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4761.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4788.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
去賺錢我都要多付七十幾億喔這是白花花的影子喔你只是一個心理 老實講這個東西當初的李前總統的時候是怕兩國論引起市場的恐慌那現在呢 大家會覺得說你是不是因為賴清德總統丟出來一點澳照特別預算準備兩岸打仗了所以我要加碼五千億 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4789.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4816.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
只有這個可以解釋 不然我是百思不得其解人云欲雲 大家覺得說 喔 現在市場的規模這麼大九十幾兆 所以我要增加這個不能話等號的這個推論沒辦法說服人民啦對不對 我要 我若不進場 我一樣要付七十幾億我加五千億 一年利息就是七十幾億七十幾億的利息 付在這裡每年付 每年付 他如果沒進場 還要付 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
4818.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
4842.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
你得到什麼 就是心理上你剛剛已經講九十幾兆了如果真的大崩盤的話一兆也不夠啦你要怎麼去hold這個股市hold不住啦 股市是hold不住的啦這是一個心理的 心理要所以你看國安基金變成一兆的時候大家不用怕 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
4847.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
4867.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
今天不要太廢 可是我是非常保留我覺得大家只是人云亦云說因為股市的市值這麼多了所以應該把它增加到一兆但是從8次 沒有只有一次超過1000億而且每一次都賺錢而且你增加5000億 一年就多增加77億 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
4870.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
4880.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
論錢我是很保留所以我覺得來部長等一下因為我沒有時間部長你同意不同意部長請部長我覺得要開個公聽會啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
4883.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
4906.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
讓各界的聲音進來啦你們行政院也沒有版本啊要不要開個公聽會 可以嗎我想怎麼樣的一個處理那當然大院有相關的職權那我覺得這個部分國安基金這樣的一個擴大規模在相關的國安基金委員會裡面的委員也都有所開個公聽會啦 讓外界的聲音進來的我們來看喔 那個部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
4909.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
4914.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
行政院對於114114版的財務法題負一被否決了財政部的下一步的步驟是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
4921.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
4929.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
你們是115年是按照我們3月10號編的這個統籌8814億一般2500億計劃新年308億這個對吧沒有錯就是根據這個編現在等於願版已經卡住了立法願版已經卡住了那就是回到3月10號通過的版本最後一個問題我又請 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
4952.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
4979.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
部長 你知道嗎 飯宮股持有國票金這個國務署長也在 市長也在 已經超過打兩成了這個我們所知道的 像是譬如兆豐 幾個飯宮股都要自己買我就問 是不是要落實公併私你們準備要掌握國票金的經營權 有沒有這樣的意圖 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
4980.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5000.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
有关经营权当然跟实力是有关系的要看你有多少的实力那公股去买这个有买这个国票金那当然是根据他们自己内部的一个财务的一些规划那后续呢怎么样去处理后面的股权我想这个是后续他们会去做考量的 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5001.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5023.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
公股是也會去做考量沒有 如果你今天因為其他人這個持股大概不會超過10%換公股就20%當然要拿經營權啊 為什麼不要拿經營權呢你們已經買這麼多了難道你要20%送給別人嗎送給張三李四王五 不通啊這裡面大家就會質疑喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5023.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5051.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
如果你不要拿經營權那就是你這樣的一個投資可能要圖利某一個團體圖利某一個集團變這個樣子我們不會圖利我們不會去圖利任何或者幫助他變成變成最大最大股東掌握經營權啊否則現在人家人家媒體就這樣報導我們是根據媒體來報導是你看持股兩成問拿國票金的經營權結果現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5054.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5068.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
看起來好像不是你們沒有這個企圖心我們當然會按照實例的原則來做處理所以按照實例原則我可不可以解讀說你不排除要去掌握經營權 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5070.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5097.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
這個部分我覺得因為後續還會有一些什麼樣的變化我知道看看因為在股票市場你既然講實力原則我就主張既然實力原則你已經最大股份了你就好好去掌握經營線我覺得這種情況之下才能夠得到社會的支持了解 謝謝委員謝謝賴委員接下來我們請郭國文委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5109.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5117.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
主席有請財政部長以及我們的財政部的次長也是我們執行秘書阮次好 請莊部長 阮次長委員好部長我想法案上如果有官方的版本當然很好但是有時候有官方的版本也不能跑到委員會來這邊審查就如同財法法一般我們雖然有行政院的版本但是程序委員會都沒有辦法過 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5139.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5160.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
所以說呢 關鍵恐怕不是行政院版本與否關鍵其實是一個對這政策的一個基本態度的問題然後我們今天要談呢先談這個有關於這個財政收支法分法的這個部分財政收支法分法現在外面其實陷入一個付不付署公不公佈 執不執行的一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5162.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5189.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
那我也要提醒一下部長部長 這個圖片當中你也是附屬人之一這個問題一定要搞清楚連工商團體現在都看不下去了更何況本席要請教於你的在野黨的部分過去的時候我就一再強調你要去慎重溝通好像也沒有部長 這說一下吧現在僵局了 怎麼辦 怎麼處理以你部長的高度 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5190.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5201.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
跟委員報告 財化法其實是非常重要它是一個財政的基本法然後行政院也已經提出版本行政院是經過跟相關地方政府多次討論而且參酌了各專家學者的意見以後我們提出了院版的財化法 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5209.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5229.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
我們認為院版的裁划法應該盡快的審議盡快的審議然後把已經走偏的火車趕快把它導正回來而不是一修再修二修三修院版的裁划法就如同剛剛有委員說是需要召開公聽會連你去公視院版的裁划法不知道歷經了幾次的公聽會歷經了幾次的各縣市的這個財政首長會議所累積而來的 不是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5234.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5252.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
经过多次讨论 审慎的规划就行政院的版本当中跟目前之前所通过的这个国中两版国中两版的这个相关的指标的部分其实过度粗糙我上一次就请审计部做一个这个蓝白三次二修所造成的可能结果 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5253.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5279.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
省基部也認為說人口數字營業額佔75%對人口較多及商業發展的都會區比較有利對財力較弱的農業縣不公平城鄉差距恐難所減也就是說會越來越大第二個 市權的部分並未納入考量調整當中導致於行政效能低落資源重複或浪費這省基部的看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5281.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5301.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
就很清楚再加上现阶段举债额度可能超过15%可能会违宪对不对这些都问题然后我就今天我要感谢这个主席排我的版本我的版本当中第一个钱要随事转就是事权在决定这个财权这个整个地方才不会抗拒这一个业务 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5303.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5325.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
二来我把统筹分配款拉到6000多亿累积起来大概可以补助给地方也是1.2兆这跟行政院版本也是相符第三指标细致化这也是跟行政院版本相符所以说相差无几行政院版本虽然晚了一点但是你们有你们的创建譬如讲你把烟酒税法的80%那个部分你也纳入了 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5326.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5346.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
这就是让统筹分配款的裁员给增加而且所有的指标跟权数也更加的细致化是不是 部长这个部分你要怎么办既然是相对比较好的版本为什么送不出去你没有其他的方法吗你有没有穷尽洪荒之力去跟这些在野党来做沟通 有没有 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5346.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5364.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
是的 我们也都有去沟通我想这个部分还是希望我们院版的才化法能够赴委尽快审查大家都可以来讨论如同刚刚委员所说的上次3月12号公布的那个才化法确实有这样的一个问题第一个钱权下去但是事权没有同时做调整 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5365.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5380.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
那第二個部分呢指標相當粗略就是人口加上盈利事業營業額的分配達到75%這麼高那就是偏重在一個工商發達的一個城市我們告訴大家台北市光是盈利事業額所 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5381.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5403.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
貨配的金額115年就達到700多億比114年它各指標加起來都還多出16億元這你就知道讓富的更富但是其他的縣市尤其農業的縣份它並沒有獲得很好的一個支持那在院版裡面對於我們的農林榆木的人口產值我們都給予 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5404.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5407.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
指標來讓他來計算可以加成計算那對於農業憲憤他對於國家糧食對於國土保育我們都要給予回饋讓他能夠做更好的處理對 那個部長這個你要常在媒體說常跟藍白立委說你看連工商團體都看不下去了即便你那個版本現有的通過的版本對工商地區比較發達的地方是好的可是連工商團體都看不下去這樣的情況你真的要費盡心思 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5432.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5449.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
不能抹滅農業憲憤對國家的安全國家糧食安全的貢獻台南是六度當中明年是邁拉斯的在整個統籌分配款上面另外一個部分我再請一下那個次長次長你這份報告很好可是你剛剛完全沒有回答其他委員的這一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5450.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5466.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
那个值以我要说的其实是你现阶段的这个部分为什么5000亿变成这个一兆有它规模跟时间的向度对不对 这是第一个第二个的部分我说实在你根本不需要保留那四大基金3000万 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5467.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5487.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
你根本用不到世大基金有它的自主性讲白一点你就干脆把它删掉你就跟着直接银行调度就好了这样你的运用空间会比较弹性否则的话它就违离5000亿实际上你是哈咖啡系只有2000亿而且用得非常省用得非常的战战兢兢那事实上这种规模已经到这种阶段了次长 你要讲一下是 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5488.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5508.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
剛才因為他沒有讓我機會來回答所以我就沒有回答我在這邊做一個簡單的說明事實上我們國安基金條例是民國89年就開始實施了那時候股市的規模只有大概8.2兆現在已經回到將近100兆 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5512.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5531.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
足足大了十倍以上对不对对另外就是外资很重要外资那时候当时只有8.44%占比在8.44%现在已经达到46.85%就是那个比重非常高另外就成交值日成交量来讲的话 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5532.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5544.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
我們這個11月份那麼跟這個現在11月份那麼成交量就達到平均量就達到4800多億4800多億那事實上11月份達到6000多億那103年度也是一樣達到這個4600多億 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5555.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5559.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
所以以過去這個25年前的當時的這個規模2000億就是可以用的那個2000億來講以目前的這個股市的規模跟外資的這個比重來看的確在副盤上非常的困難非常困難 也就是說那個心理因素沒有達到安全感的可能性就是說你不會認為有副盤的可能性嘛所以這個規模應該要增加嘛對不對 這理由上其實也講得非常清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5583.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5605.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
那要問的是說你現在這一波是屬於第九波進轉護盤 是 沒錯那目前帳面上是plus還是minus的現在是正的是正的 正多少因為沒辦法現在沒有辦法結算不方便講依照股市的這個走勢你們那個時間點應該是正的 沒有錯可是過去八次的進場當中總共獲利661億這個某個程度來說 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5611.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5636.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
是政府在賺這一個股災財就是黨散戶的時候心裡恐慌的時候紛紛棄股 落跑的時候你去撿便宜的股份這660億一下子無條件的歸入國庫這好像還是有問題新加坡都知道賺這種錢的時候他要拿出來發了你是不是要把這一筆錢來想像一個比較好的用途譬如講長照 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5637.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5657.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
譬如講健保 譬如講國保有沒有各種可能性跟委員報告國安基金的這個賺的錢要經過委員會決議以後那我們基本上是繳戶繳戶以後那就該開始統收統支我當然是知道放在大水庫當中我也不可能流到外面去我也清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5657.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5682.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
那問題是現在我跟你講提出來是說有些民眾說這些錢就是我們當初虧損的錢雖然不是這一個被割韭菜但是是被割韭菜的這種情況底下你是不是要考慮一下跟委員報告這些賺的錢這些賺的錢如果留在國安基金的話因為國安基金已經退場了也不能再買股票 什麼都不行對 是沒有嘛我現在跟你講的是說你現在也Plus |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5684.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5699.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
现在已经过去661你这一次又Plus 又赚这累积的金额越来越高大家眼睛会看你赚的钱怎么用你看你最近补充保费的问题国保的问题长照的经费的问题 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5700.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5718.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
是不是有可能在政策上來思考一下本席就問你這一點是 了解委員的想法如果要這樣做的話可能要修那個國安基金條例就是對它的用途要有明確的規範對 如果這基金的條例要修你們就政策上先討論委員會先行討論我建議你在委員會的時候內部先溝通一下可不可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5719.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5736.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
除了金額之外以後這個目標會越來越清楚你累積的這個獲利越高的話大家就會越去懷疑說你這筆錢真的是趁著這一個股災來累積財富是 那這個要大家有共識對 要共識你要回去討論可以吧是 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5739.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5763.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
可以吧这一部分我刚才跟委员报告过以目前的条例的规定是没有我就说你回去讨论一下你今天几时秘书你就有提案的权利我们来研议研议对 至少要去面对这个问题外面已经在挑战了好不好是 我们来研议看看谢谢主席 谢谢部长跟次长好 谢谢郭委员接下来我们请赖会员委员 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5771.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5772.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
謝謝主席有請部長請莊部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5781.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5802.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
部長早安相對的問題一問再問那事實上不是你不會回答連我們問的人都不知道該怎麼問那這個就是也是凸顯出現行的版本的一個荒謬那今天我們審查了財政收支劃分法 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5803.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
5826.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
那我們也知道就是由去年就是去年的現行版就是去年就是沒有那個強加討論那倉促通過現在勉強的來那個實行的結果不論是中央還是地方的一個垂直分配還是水平分配的計算方式都出現了很大的一個缺失 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
5827.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
5855.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
那行政院在這樣的一個狀況之下那會不會影響到國家的社會安全還有經濟穩定成長其實這個都很明顯是真的就是影響到了所以其實本席今天執行的重點還是檢視現行的一個版本的一個問題那就是請部長你就針對現行版本跟行政院的版本的一個差異性 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
5856.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
5870.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
我們共同的來討論我們先從中央財政被壓縮垂直分配的一個結構性的問題到底就是說我們看到了就是舊制我們用114年的一個舊制 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
5874.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
5890.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
跟現行的法規跟行政院的法規我們就針對了守得稅營業稅跟貨物稅來做一個比較那統籌款到底是變多還是變少那財政部的依據在哪裡請這個部長那個回答一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
5892.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
5906.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
是跟委員報告第一個就是說您所謂的救治的部分救治的部分它其實中央統籌分配稅款的規模確實不夠大確實不夠大因此它會透過一般性的補助款來彌補這中間的一個財政收支的差額 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
5907.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
5910.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
這一次我們院版在討論的時候當然是有看到這樣的一個問題因此我們就擴大中央統籌分配稅款的規模比114年增加了3537億達到8213億這樣以115年來計算的話也可以有到8213億而我們在擴大中央統籌分配稅款規模的時候我們同時考慮到市權的調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
5932.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
5936.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
也就是說屬於地方自治事項地方自辦的事項我們回歸到地方讓地方加強它的財政自主以後也強化了地方自治強化地方自治屬於地方英辦的事項這樣的一個具有普遍性均衡性的指標事項下去以後我們的目的是希望全體的國民能夠獲得生活品質上的一個均衡也就是說不論你生活在鄉村生活在城市 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
5959.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
5982.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
居民都可以民眾都可以獲得一定的生活品質跟公共服務這是讓我們的生活能夠均衡這是一個但是呢現行的財化法他都沒有調整到所謂的市權同時又要求一般性補助款不得減少甚至在這一次11月14號通過包含計劃型補助款還要維持跟以前一樣那幾乎就是把調配調整財政營需的一個功能完全喪失掉了 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
5987.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6003.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
完全喪失掉了好那如果針對的就是說現行版現行版在執行上有這麼大的一個困難的話那你這樣子一估現行版就是說大概大概會是就是這個總金額會落在多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6005.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6006.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
現行版現行版的部分呢目前來說在規劃115年是達到1兆1683億那行政驗版啊我們更擴大的就是說我們是達到1兆2002億第一個我們擴大了中央統籌分配稅款比舊制來擴大 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6023.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6051.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
同时我们的一般性补助款维持了社会社福教育跟基本设施还有计划型补助款也维持了救治也维持就让我们的建设可以不中断但是我们最担心的是11月14号三读通过他会让中央要释出到一兆4,329亿会要再释出这么多那中央都要举债的话就会超过债限 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6052.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6080.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
超过债限 公债法的债限这个超过债限有没有违宪啊中央如果要执行114年11月14号三读通过的话中央要释出一兆4329亿我必须再去举债2646亿加上115年我们本来中央政府总预算就要举债2992亿就超过当年度的公债法的债限流量了 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6081.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6107.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
所以部長這顯然就是現行版會讓我們不斷的一直到處去擠債了如果像你這樣講的話你變成就是說你要借更多的錢對現行版因為釋出了以後當然是因為中央必須要維持一定的施政量能維持施政量能的情況下那透過舉債那如果超過債限那是絕對沒有公務員不能做 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6107.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6120.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
那我想這個越講是越沉重那如果我們從水平分配的一個失衡那指標反映不了地方真正的一個真實的一個負擔就誠如你剛才講到了就是說像這個對我們農業縣市來講的話其實是非常的不公平 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6125.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6145.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
那你這個財源保障的一個基準在哪裡我們顯然也看不到就是說你用新版跟驗版來做一個比較的話那分配的方式跟財源的保障我就講這個財源的保障新增驗版是他會去保障這個統籌的稅款還有一般性的補助款跟計劃性的補助款你獲得配合的那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6149.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6165.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
建树不得地114年就是等于是旧盘的分配的一个水准可是相形就是这一个新版他就是说普通的统筹税款分配那个金额叫修法前一年减少了 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6165.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6181.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
那這個很明顯你就看到了它其實是沒有辦法反映到地方的真實的一個負擔那如果從台南我們的農業來講的話那我講到了一個水平分配的一個失衡分配的一個指標 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6183.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6207.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
某市的地方的真實的一個負擔對我們農業縣市的話是非常地不公平成如你剛才回答的那個郭委員他的一個那個質詢裡頭你講得非常清楚你看縣型版它的那個45%它這一個人口數它完全完全沒有細分到就是說農業人口 青年人口 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6208.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6226.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
那這樣子顯然對於就是說在未來未來就是我們南部尤其是說我們的農業面積這麼大的一個南部縣市的話那地方政府確實沒有那麼多的一個資源可以傲然我們那該怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6228.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6233.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
確實是如委員所說的因此我們認為願版的財化法應該盡快附為審議大家來做討論讓我們的財政要回歸到一個可長可久的一個制度那如同委員剛剛說的這樣子的盈利事業 營業額加上人口達到75%讓工商發達的城市獲配的金額更多而工商發達城市他創稅的能力更高因為他不管是地價稅土地增值稅 房屋稅他的收入都比 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6257.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6262.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
農業憲分來得高農業憲分對國家糧食安全的貢獻是不容抹煞的因此在我們院版的財化法裡面我們對農林榆木的就業人口農林榆木的產值我們都給予配的全數讓他可以在這部分獲得一定的回饋我想這個部分是非常重要尤其高齡人口已經誘而必須要政府更多的照顧我們也對於 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6282.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6306.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
65岁以上的人口以及14岁以下的孩子们我们对他的人口用1.2倍来计算这样才能够真正呈现政府的一个施政支出那这些地方政府这些的支出都会在我们中央统筹分配税款里面给考量进去让国民的生活品质才能够更均衡而不是只有生活在城市的人获得保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6307.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6328.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
在很多委員的版本裡頭也看到了他們把農業跟老人人口都那個增加都總計都已經就是說到65%以上了所以就是說顯然他們看到了這個就是現板現板的公司變成就是說重商 輕農然後輕工那地方業偏遠的就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6329.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6336.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
地方越偏遠的縣市負擔的越重反而在分配中被壓得更低了這個是非常非常的不合理尤其是農業縣市的負擔被稀釋了這個錢種不足的問題真的沒有辦法正面的反映這個土地的正義所以就是我們在這裡特別跟你再一次的一個提到所以就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6359.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6375.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
還是一樣就是反應夠不夠如果不夠的話就是說行政驗版我們看到的是你們是願意提高這個權重的我們看到的是這樣的一個事實謝謝委員的深入研究我覺得您分析得很清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6377.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6401.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
這很慘啦這是對我們這個台南來講實在是真的很慘所以說部長是不是可以提供驗版的那個補助款的試算的一個金額就是說驗版的財務法調整以後中央跟地方三大的補助款的一個具體的金額還有水平分配所有錢重的調整後每一個地方的試算的結果還有財源保障機制對地方政府實際財務的一個影響把這一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6404.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6418.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
真實的一個狀況然後就是送到本席的辦公室跟委員報告我們很重要就是要建立一個可長可久的制度我們應該把制度把它討論更完善 是的制度討論更完善制度討論更完善現在就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6423.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6440.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
好 那就是如果制度討論完善了以後請你把本席的三項要求的那就把完整的數據送到我們的辦公室來討論完畢 謝謝是不是主席我想再借用你兩分鐘的時間跟農業部次長請教一個簡單的問題好 那就進述好 進述 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6450.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6476.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
是 處長我想在這裡請教就是針對的就是7月6號丹納斯颱風還有7月28號的豪雨那還有後面的那個這個連續的洋流颱風 微怕颱風這裡頭那我們看到了就是說在這個所有的一個農業的一個補助款裡面是不是已經如期就是把這些補助款那個已經撥到了地方了 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6479.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6503.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
地方政府呈報上來的這個部分我們都在第一三日內就撥回去到地方政府了那所以現在都落實了還是要看地方政府的因為有有些地方政府他的這個勘災的能量沒有那麼大這個部分那所以基本上原則上他只要是這個報告送上來到部裡面的這個部分我們一定在三天之內回到這個所以說就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6505.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6524.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
台南的部分的話台南這一次就是說在總額就是這個我們看到了就是說總額43億裡頭台南就佔了就是36%佔了9億3000多萬那9億3000多萬的這一個我們是不是台南市政府都有如期收到了呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6525.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6538.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
這個部分是不是委員我們回去再了解一下之後再跟委員匯報那你的輔導計畫也一併送給本席好嗎是 好好 謝謝 謝謝好 謝謝賴委員接下來我們請李彥秀委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6554.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6576.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
我可不可以邀請部長以及主席總署副主席長好有請部長副主席長部長副主席長才化法走到今天我認為應該要有更多的對話 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6578.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6604.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
而不是只留於喊話公務人員更應該依法行政去處理事情當然我昨天有看到我們院長在媒體上說沒有什麼不能談的包括前面的軍人的加薪也好或者是針對於裁劃法也好或者是公教人員其他幾個案例 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6605.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6614.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
沒有什麼不能談的只要總預算趕快審只要我們的任性條例我們的軍購1.25的條例趕快審沒有什麼不能談的這句話你覺得有沒有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6621.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6632.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
部長 有沒有問題我想委員 財化法是一個非常重要的一個財政的基本的法律那院版已經提出來送大院審議你不敢評論院長講的話部長 沒關係每一個法案都很重要但是 部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6641.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6644.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
妳不用跟我吵架但是我要提醒無論才化法無論是軍人加薪無論總預算無論是軍購的預算我覺得都應該好好討論每一個法案都很重要但是你們民進黨的主席也好總統也好 總統太也好過去常說我們對話不能有前提跟條件 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6667.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6686.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
沒有一個法案是私底下可以拿來交換後面給我 前面都好談立法院是監督的角色不管哪一個政黨都是一樣這是我要提醒的我覺得應該有更多良心的對話我們採訪法走到今天我們採訪法走到今天我剛剛一直強調依法行政很重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6687.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6711.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
今天我看到的就是比較遺憾的是對於院長來說他可以丟一句話就是我不願意或者是我要設前提但是你是公務人員耶你們底下都是公務人員更部長你現在算是政務官你是公務員上來的之前我們在處理進法補償條例的時候很多我原住民的好朋友就跟我講說好啊如果不編的話總統也 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6713.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6738.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
行政院應該走的權利就是他也不釋憲然後也沒有賦予也不釋憲那你又不編的話後面原住民可以去告原委會這個就是所謂的違法扣留的苛扣罪我想法令你應該很清楚依法三讀通過的法案行政院如果沒有疑慮既不走賦予也沒有釋憲那就依法應該要照理編列預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6743.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6750.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
今天當然你們有在走相關的程序但是副主席長 部長你們是公務人員上來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6751.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6779.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
我要提醒你們如果拒絕相關的法條或者你們現在用你們的很多行政手段財化法走到今天你們還不願意去做相關的面對後面的一些相關應該處理的我覺得後面相關的法律追訴還有監察院的彈劾這是我要提醒你們的地方我覺得該怎麼處理就應該怎麼處理今天走到今天不管你們說預算不夠未來可能有舉債流量的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6781.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6796.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
事權 錢下放了給地方事權當然也要下放給地方你們到底針對事權你就只有針對垂直分配水平分配錢的部分該怎麼分公事應該怎麼樣去調整做處理但是事權從來沒有好好去討論過 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6800.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6815.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
我支持前下放地方事權當然也要做討論哪些事情該少做一點哪些事情應該分配給地方責任多一點我覺得應該好好討論但是我現在看到的都 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
6816.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
6833.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
變成流於喊話這不是對話 這是喊話對於解決事情僵局一點幫助都沒有這是我要提醒部長跟主席長的地方我是不是要補充我們一定會依法行政那跟地方的溝通 事權我們國發會跟主席總處也有找地方來開會 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
6835.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
6858.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
你開會只有你講你的然後他們有意見你也不好好聽其實之前也是好幾個縣市都縣市的財政局局長主計處都有跟我講他們對於你們調配的公式他們一直反映意見但是他們意見你有聽沒有到沒有用 這不是開會你們開會的次數都在最後幾次才開會財化法的修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
6860.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
6880.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
從賴市長到賴院長到總統到你們上任到現在去年在野黨就提出說要調整財化法但是你們市權的部分討論了幾次到最後你們覺得不得已你們之前的版本行政院財政部根本不提出自己的版本到最後 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
6881.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
6887.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
在立法院通過之後你們才在急急忙忙找人來開會找人來處理版本我覺得這樣不是一個處理跟委員說明我們的開會一直在進行中而且中央對地方財政的挹注年年升高到114年達到1兆到115年更大1兆1600多億你整個總預算增加你對地方的補助你這個叫做蚊子遊戲 部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
6908.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
6918.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
你總預算不斷的膨脹地方那個統籌分配那個分配那個數額越大當然母體數越大當然分配的錢會越多你不要用數字來跟我玩遊戲部長這是我要提醒你不要用文字來糊弄我稅出越多統籌分配的數字比例按照都是按照比例來分配你用這樣來糊弄我就沒有必要了部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
6935.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
6956.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
我想这是一个事实跟委员在这边的说明无论是财政的整个福气的转移也好你那个都有固定的公式这个我很清楚你都有固定的公式你不要说你有分配的越多收入税出越多当然分配的也会越多但是你相对中央的钱也分配的更多嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
6957.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
6978.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
因為那都是按照公式來走中央統籌分配稅款是按照公式但是一般性補助款和計劃型補助款這個部分一般性的補助款也是有公式計劃性的補助款你有多少錢放在那邊也是公式只是說你愛給誰就給誰我今天不要浪費時間說這個但是我是提醒你們在處理財化法不要 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
6978.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7003.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
不要讓公務人員你們自己是公務人員出來了不要違法這是我要提醒你的你的標準哪些要執行哪些不執行你現在不執行包括一般補助款你不執行你的選擇性的條件是什麼跟文包我們一般性補助款目前通知地方政府的我們都會執行如果預算115的預算有通過的話會執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7005.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7032.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
你們不是按照我們現在立法院通過的版本主要跟委員說明就是說因為11月14號通過那個版本我們依照預算法8月底預算就要送到立法院然後各地方政委依照地方制度法的期限也都已經送到議會了所以這115年度的預算如果要依照11月14號的版本來回溯是不可能的可以追加預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7035.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7062.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
因為這個牽動的那個因為它那個金額非常大所以那個沒有因為主要還是另外也違反了公共債務法所以它環環相扣所以我就講說事權要調整沒有什麼不能處理的事權調整後面再追加預算都有解決的方法你們現在只是說這個違反公債法流量的上限來去做處理這我要提沒有什麼不能處理的沒有什麼不能討論處理的事權調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7065.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7086.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
中央少做一點 地方多承擔一點都有解決的方法跟方案好 我這個議題沒有 不能處理但是我現在強調的就是說像你剛剛講說因為違反公債法所以你們不處理包括像軍人家包括軍人家三萬塊這沒多少錢啊你們現在也是一樣不處理啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7087.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7116.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
那你們不處理都有各式各樣的理由放在那邊就是追加減預算就是如果辦追加減預算也是會違反公共因為我們已經沒有那個空間去調整所以基於會違法的考慮所以沒有辦法處理所以中央事權少做一點地方多做一點那當然是整塊都一起討論調整你現在只是用一個理由丟在外面就是說我們舉債會超過上限流量會超過上限我們還有那麼多事情要做你事權 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7117.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7133.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
跟後面還有追加預算還有其他的還有其他的財政工具可以去處理目前的問題你們現在只是不願意面對這件事不是不願意面對立法院通過的法案去處理問題這是我要提的可調整的空間不夠我另外一個議題 部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7134.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7138.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
今年賴總統對外講說今年經濟成長非常高所以我們要減稅我們要減稅的部分除了從納稅除了從所得的部分要去做處理我們每人的基本生活費從過去的21萬去年21萬調到21萬3千 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7158.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7173.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
部長經濟景氣當然很好但是這是一個失溫的經濟成長壽星階級感受不到我想這句話我常常在講部長你也非常清楚零死薪水的他感受不到 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7174.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7199.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
所以我認為總統這句話在吃所有民眾的豆腐因為你這個該調的基本的生活費它本來就是有公事在做處理本來就有公事無論今年調整的所得稅或長照其實壽星階級真的是感受不到所以部長我最後一句話要提醒的是共享國家經濟的成長 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7202.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7211.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
如果要去做調整的話應該要有其他的真正的其他的更多的免稅工具讓所有真正白領藍領階級領死薪水的 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7214.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7226.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
他可以有更多的免稅的一些機會放在裡頭因為總統所講這些免稅和基本生活那個本來就有這些公視在去年是21萬今年調整21萬3千塊這本來就有公視放在那邊不是因為總統因為經濟景氣很好所以我這個公視有調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7235.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7249.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
我沒有講錯吧我覺得跟委員報告委員這樣的照顧民生真的是納稅者的基本生活費用本來每一年都有調整的公司放在那邊那不是因為經濟景氣很好所以總統要求你們去做調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7250.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7255.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
我們時間到了跟委員報告除了稅之外其實政府在社福支出部分達到27%是我們稅出預算裡面最高的所以政府的財政好的時候我們會透過各種方式去照顧需要照顧的民眾我覺得這個還有我們的教育文化支出也是第二高的這個部分都超過了40%兩者相加 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7272.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7291.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
在我們的總預算裡面是這樣的我今天是拿總統的話要讓所有藍領白領壽星階級還有所有沒有享受到經濟成長的果實這些基礎勞工們感受到政府真正減稅的美意不要拿這些本來應該有的減稅當然要來鼓勵企業去給員工們加薪謝謝我們時間到了謝謝李委員接下來我們請鍾嘉賓委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7312.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7335.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
主席 在場的委員先進列席的政府經濟部長 官員會長 工作夥伴媒體記者女士先生有請財政部莊部長還有我們國家金融安定基金管理委員會我們阮執行秘書 就是我們阮次長好 請莊部長 阮次長等一下等黃珊珊委員質詢之後我們休息10分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7337.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7357.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
謝謝部長好 次長好來 先請一下次長因為你是執行秘書我們看一下國發基金國安基金不是國發它從89年到114年總共是多少年的時間25年的時間市值成長了10.5倍外資持比的比例雖然是多了38%但實際上也增加了8倍 將近8倍 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7359.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7373.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
日均交易額從1000多億變成4800億也成長了將近4.5倍那其中最近這幾年外資的賣超也差不多在1000億 900多億所以目前相較於國安基金的總額5000億應付這樣的一個變化 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7376.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7393.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
你認為足夠嗎跟委員報告因為雖然現在講的是五千億但事實上我們實際上可以用的只有兩千億那以目前的這個市場的規模跟交易的規模來看的話事實上我們在護盤因為我護過三次所以以我的經驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7395.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7419.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
我們在戶的時候為什麼大家都說那2000億都沒用完事實上就是因為我們因為額度很小所以我們在戶盤是非常謹慎如果是說碰到大的一些這個外資口袋要夠深 戶盤才有夠力不是口袋掏空了來戶盤而是要有夠深的口袋去戶盤是不是這樣的意思好 謝謝那我們知道了好 那今天請莊部長2000億實在是太低了好 謝謝 請莊部長來 莊部長我們才經歷過 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7423.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7436.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
我們行政院提出了一個特別預算結果立法院本院提出了修正案結果要增加每個民眾普發現金1萬元增加支出2,350億請問後來行政院有照做嗎普發現金1萬做了沒做了有增加舉債額度嗎有叫原來的舉債額度增加嗎有 因為我們有再舉債1千多億 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7446.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7459.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
後來又要被迫因為立法院的決議被迫要再增加舉債1000億好 我們看一下最近地方政府也有民意機關提出在嘉義市議會國民黨團的書獎提出說要求市政府普花3000塊結果要5毛給1塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7463.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7491.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
這個嘉義市長說不舉債的方式發六千中央發一萬要舉債多一千億嘉義市不用舉債可以三千變六千部長你有沒有很羨慕嘉義市的財政近年地方政府的財政確實有改善許多有在中央政府的財源的挹注之下以及地方政府的努力之下都增加很多所以他是存在用稅基證與發的 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7493.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7518.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
这个部分因为是属于他们地方自治的一些事项但是我们认为财务资源的运用我们认为应该以政策要优先考量相关的地方建设所以嘉义市政府好像不是只有嘉义市政府特别好本来文明只有嘉义市特别好结果新竹市政府他也在明年度要发5000块你所知道新竹市政府发这5000块普发现金有要增加举债吗 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7519.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7547.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
还是通通让他税基剩余对他这个部分我不太了解他的裁员是来自于隆之裁员还是他自有裁员不只是新竹市 往下看现在台北市 新北市 桃园市台中的六都市长都是国民党籍的结果民进党在议员在民意机关提出了要怎样要提出普发先遷2万1 4万6 1万5 5万不等其中桃园市是市议员提案还不见得哪个党派也通过了 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7548.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7554.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
請問你認為如果六都的市議會通過了要補發現金你認為行政首長 市長會不會照做 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7557.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7572.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
跟委員報告由於他們這樣通過事實上是115年是按照新版就是通過的財化法各地方政府我們可以看到新竹市在中央統籌分配稅款裡面它的成長是達到255%255%新竹縣也達到250幾所以但是有些地方政府根本沒有增加這麼多這就是一個不均衡的問題請問一下你說新竹市嘉義市因為我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7587.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7605.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
去年年底12月通的財化法因此他們在明年115年獲配的統統分配稅款大幅增加所以不用舉債就足夠有錢來發現金是這個意思嗎那請問這些六都的四都是不是也是財政很好所以他們議會就可以通過來發現金 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7608.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7617.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
以直轄市來說確實我們來看一下還有還有基隆新竹彰化你剛講新竹縣對不對雲林花蓮哇 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7618.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7647.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
你看看這裡面都是國民黨的縣市長然後提案有兩萬三萬四五千一萬五萬不等其中花蓮縣已經決議通過了新竹縣也是提案通過所以看起來新竹縣就像你說的因為去年12月通過的新版財劃法我們財政部中央政府根據新版財劃法撥給的地方增加很多錢所以他們新竹縣也可以花三萬四花蓮縣也可以花五萬是這樣的意思嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7648.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7663.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
他們的中央統籌分配算法確實是倍數成長的好 那這樣我就很奇怪了結果我們去年12月通過的財化法立法院的多數在野黨還不滿足他說還要再播出更多出來我們來看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7664.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7689.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
立法之後要求行政院普發先行1萬元我們要用舉債來支應結果根據立法院通過的去年12月的財化法地方議會他因為發現明年地方貨幣的增加了他做成決議要求地方政府有的發有的不發 奇怪那如果地方議會決定要發地方縣市政府可不可以不執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7691.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7720.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
是屬於他們地方自治的事情好 這裡就很有趣了明明有錢民意機關也支持但是到現在很多縣市長好像還沒有決定要執行這跟目前國會多數的在野黨所表達的說行政院 財化法去年12月通過的我們在今年的11月又通過了一個更好的把中央的散財同時 散財更多的那麼他們擔心你們不執行了請問行政院的立場是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7721.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7726.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
我們來看一下對於11月通過的裁劃法不是去年12月的你們要怎麼做 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7729.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7758.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
委員報告今年11月14號通過的這個財化法他要求是一般性補助款跟計劃型補助款都不能比去年12月的增加更多會更增加到一兆4329億那會比新版就去年底通過的增加2646億將2600多億我們來看一下預算法立法院要遵守預算法立法院當然要 這法律都大家都要遵守快近年目前四個月提出來立法院審議行政院有做了對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7760.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7773.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
對 預算法立法院在明年度開始前一個月要議決現在剩不到一個月了有沒有完成議決目前來說看起來還沒有都還沒有審查都還沒開始審查不可能合乎預算法51條 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7775.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
7803.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
在野黨占多數的國會已經明白違反了預算法了然後他還要求怎樣你們現在送來的是根據去年12月的財化法現在立法院的多數就是在野黨要求你們要根據11月的財化法重新編制預算 可以嗎我想明年度的總預算已經在大院那還是請大院能夠交付審查然後可以讓新的施政可以繼續推動好 那我們來看一下除了違反 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
7804.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
7824.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
你說的大運是立法院違反財政預算法之外我們看財政紀律法他說立法委員所提法律院大幅增加政府稅出或因先指名彌補資金的來源請問本院在11月通過的更新的財政收支劃分法大幅增加了中央政府的支出有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
7825.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
7850.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
大幅增加了中央政府的支出是2600億有沒有名補資金的來源有沒有指名沒有而且財政紀律法第7條你也說了各級機關包括立法院在修訂法律的時候不得增訂固定經費額度或比率保障請問去年12月的財化法或今年11月的財化法有沒有這樣做有沒有增訂固定經費額度或比率保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
7851.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
7868.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
这个部分确实对于尤其是今年11月14号通过对于一般性补助款跟计划型补助款都要求不能各县市而且是各县市都不能减少这个会影响到调剂财政营需的问题对不对 额度跟比例保障那这样有没有违反财政纪律法 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
7869.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
7892.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
我想這個部分光是超過這個公債的比例就已經是更是不只是財政紀律法還有公債法我們看公債法公債法的舉債額度不得超過15%那去年12月的跟今年11月的剛剛已經把你整理出來了去年12月的多了快3000億今年在休的11月又多了2646億增加了5600多億舉債要佔到17.1有沒有違反公債法 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
7898.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
7917.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
當然違反因為公債法上限是15%財政部可以違反公債法嗎不行公務員都必須要克遵法律財政部可以違反財政紀律法嗎當然也不行啊是法律立法院可以違反預算法嗎所有公職人員都不能違反法律包括立法院是好那請問吃這個也養吃那個也養 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
7919.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
7940.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
要不你就是違反立法院通過的財化法要不你就是違反立法院通過的預算法財政機率法跟公債法你覺得你選擇要違反哪一個我們都不可以違背法律那你怎麼辦你那個也不違法這個也不違法都做不到啊那我們往下看現在的問題啊我們剛剛看到那個情況中央要 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
7942.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
7960.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
執行立法院通過的普發現金一萬塊要舉債地方議會通過要普發現金是不用舉債地方政府很有錢用稅計證明就可以了還有人敢不發結果立法院通過的財政收支法方法要你違法舉債再分配給地方政府你覺得這是不是劫貧濟富 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
7962.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
7977.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
在分配上不均衡的结果就是让富者更富但是然后真正比较财政弱的现实没有获得补助而且也让中央的财政失去了韧性这样的情况违法违宪这是你财政部可以说的吗 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
7979.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8000.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
我想財政部不管怎麼樣都必須在合法這個不是你財政部說的這是憲法大法官4-391號說的因為根據我們的憲法59條根據70條所以4-391做成了如果立法院做出了剛剛所說的事情不用需要財政部來說他違法違憲大法官就說他違法違憲了你同意嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8002.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8023.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
當然憲法上的爭議是由大法官的憲法法庭來審議這不是未來 過去就有講過了未來現在憲法庭癱瘓了那這邊可以了最後一個小事情拜託小規模營業人導入行動支付的營業稅優惠我們講了很久了部長來得及在今年年底定案我們明年有機會來宣導進行嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8024.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8038.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
我知道這個案子我們複稅署已經簽出來目前還在做一個更細緻的一個好 那妳上次答應我11月底為目標達成了沒目前來說已經進度是到滿前面所以妳核定了嗎目前還沒有到那個署長怎麼會問署長的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8041.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8064.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
不是說在你桌上在我桌上嗎沒有 這個部分來 署長講一下這個問現在在誰那裡什麼時候可以公告請署長盡量回答是 報告委員這個案件因為我們為了做細緻化處理中間有一些法律上的意見目前我們已經又再沉上去了正在沉上去在你跟部長之間要不我去找一找你們之間有一張空文嗎在誰那裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8066.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8091.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
我回去盡快看部長 這個我已經聽兩個星期了我真的要把你們兩個之間找到看有沒有紙要掉在地上一紙公文送出了財政負稅署還沒到達部長室那到底這紙公文在哪裡部長 可不可以承諾本週內給我們一個明確的答案 可以嗎我想本週內給您一個答案一定是可以那年底前我們把它完成好嗎好 謝謝中委員接下來我們請林思敏召委 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8102.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8109.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
好 謝謝昭偉我請部長還有我們副主席長好 請莊部長 陳副主席長部長早部長先就教你財政收支劃分法的問題我想立法院在12月5號依法否決財劃法的附議這是主院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8131.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8155.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
任內第八次的復議案遭否決也創下中華民國憲政史上的壯舉根據憲法正修條文第三條第二項規定行政院對立法院的決議應接受行政院卻公開宣稱沒有必須執行的壓力甚至強調不會不能執行違法的法案 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8156.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8180.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
我想憲法並未賦予行政院擇取所欲執行法律的權利行政院長身為我們最高的行政機關首長公開宣稱拒絕執行挑戰我國憲政體制的根本所以我要就教部長還有副主席長行政院公然抗拒立法院刪除通過的法律你認同嗎你們兩位認同嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8183.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8205.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
跟委員報告立法院三讀通過的法律後續有關憲政上的一些程序在憲法上有所規定那對於11月14號三讀通過的財化法的再修正版那我們在附議裡面很清楚的提到就是說因為這樣的一個擴大釋出會讓中央政府必須再增加舉債2646億那再加上115年總預算必須要再舉債2992億的情況下 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8213.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8240.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
它就違反了公債法的流量上限規定它是至愛難行因此行政院提出復議希望我們立法院能夠再能夠審慎的再去考量這樣的一個事情那當然還有相關的補助性一般性的補助款跟計畫型的補助款相關的分配也有它的至愛難行之處這個復議理由都寫得很清楚剛才您在尋找的時候已經歷次說明了很多你的一個看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8241.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8267.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
其實我想大家可以說各說其事當然我的想法很簡單就是部長還有主席長那到底現在是這種狀況之下法案已經三讀通過了你們是支持左院長在復議已經被否決之後然後你還繼續為他做政治背書認為即便法案三讀通過我們也不尊重立法院所通過的法律嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8271.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8288.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
跟委員報告就是說就我們主計總署來說就是說我們就是依法行政那目前通過的版本主要是考慮到它違反了公共債務法所以因為我們不能違法所以目前就沒有辦法來執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8289.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8306.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
是 所以我剛才一直強調各說其是 從憲法的角度行政院沒有拒絕立法院所刪除通過法律的這樣的一個行政舉措它是不能抗拒的 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8307.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8332.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
你這樣根本就是違憲我想法律的位階是低於憲法之下既然憲法規定那麼清楚立法院三讀通過的法律就要去予以執行也沒有經過大法官解釋說這部法律是違憲的一個情況之下行政院可以抗拒嗎其實我個人看法是不可以所以行政院如果可以單方面認定法律違法而拒絕執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8333.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8349.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
這已經讓國家讓中華民國政府形成一個專制的政府是一個獨裁的政府而否決立法院依照多數民意所定的一個法案也否決了立法院制衡與監督的角色 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8350.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8363.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
所以我還是希望不管是財政部還是主計總署你們三思而行還是要依法行政依憲法來行政另外我想問一下財政部宣稱修法後補助款增加至5450 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8368.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8387.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
5455億元需超限舉債2646億元超出我們年度的公共債務法的舉債上限導致這個債限破表就剛才你們一直強調的所以我想請問就是說針對這些財務的推估我們是否有對外有完整的揭露 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8388.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8391.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
妳這個推估有完整揭露嗎我們有詳細的說明第一個就是11月14號通過的這個財化法它的要求第一個中央統籌分配稅款其實在去年的通過以後那這一次的編列達到8800億 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8403.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8424.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
那又要求各縣市的一般性補助款以及计划型補助款都不能减少那就是2501亿2501亿的一般性補助款跟计划型補助款2954亿所以整体加起来是一兆4329亿这个数字很清楚是 部长这些数字是否有经过独立的审计验证 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8426.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8440.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
第一個統籌分配稅款這個部分我們在年初的時候就已經算出來了那但是有關一般性就是年中的時候不是年初抱歉那一般性補助款跟計畫性補助款這個是根據主總計算所以你是有這個經過審計驗證出來的一個數字是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8444.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8465.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
因為我們跟委員報告主要就是說一般性補助款跟計畫型補助款它基本上都是一種延續性的計畫所以我們按照這個以往的這個經驗來推估算出這個總數所以是依照以往的經驗來推估所以我是希望說行政院或者財政部或主席總署 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8467.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8481.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
你可否 你不是說依照經驗來推估但是實際上它這個要驗證實際去驗證它所以可否將這些財務推估完整的揭露你是如何去依照過去的經驗來推估 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8482.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8497.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
跟文報就是說這些計畫項目事實上我們在115年度在通知地方政府編列預算的時候所有的計畫項目都有通知地方政府所以我們就依照這些計畫項目來計算我還是要強調最後的結論 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8505.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8522.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
行政院與財政部一再主張修法導致國家破產中央無法編預算概念的說法是這樣其實外界也一直認為說這樣的做法是刻意操弄財政黑洞與破產說但是財化法的修法核心我還是要再強調一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8523.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8543.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
財政收支劃分法它修法的核心目的是來調整中央與地方財源的不足就要落實財政民主與地方自決但是我們看到目前修法前確實許多縣市財政困難仍嚴重依賴中央一般及計畫性補助來穩定我們地方的一個財政困境 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8544.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8565.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
所以我還是希望部長跟主席長你們三思既然我們財務法現在已經三讀通過了讓它先實行一段時間如果有需要再去調未來有需要再調整的我們再來做相關的一個按照財政部的版本來做相關的一個審議還是讓它實行一段期間 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8570 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8594.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
現在請市長 阮市長部長跟副市長請回好 請阮市長市長 我們今天討論的有關國安基金規模的上限從五千萬變成一兆我們除了現在因為美國對等關稅算為塵埃落定所以我們國安基金在市場內過去有八次進場的紀錄是 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8596.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8614.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
從簡報上這些數字上來看平均投入的金額大概約445億投入的最短的天數第一次的5天 只有5天而已以及第8次最長是275天一次是在2000年 一次是在2022年 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8617.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8637.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
那次長你對外曾經提到希望像公股銀行借款的融資上限從2000億提高到7000億你對外曾經這樣說過這個不是我提的不是你提的 沒關係但是我們股市的運作除了黑天鵝的因素外其實漲漲跌跌它很正常 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8638.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8660.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
很正常所以現在外資約在我們台股4成左右但是這些資金本來每天就是有進有出如果說怕這些外資會非常嚴重的影響股市那國安基金不是每天要進場嗎所以我要問次長為何需要提高高達我們進場平均值445億約15倍的資金金額 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
8665.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
8683.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
跟委員報告我們現在那個目前的可以用的金額在2000億這個是25年前那時候就訂了但是剛才委員自己也提到就是說目前的我們的股市的規模不是規模 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
8685.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
8711.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
那麼那時候在89年的時候那時候大概是9.2兆現在已經達到97兆所以成長10.5倍這是一個第二個外資當時是只有8.14% 部長沒關係我知道這個我都知道了其實我們講就是你現在要增加這個金額你要去依照去估算過去最適合的金額是多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
8712.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
8721.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
他們看這8次的經驗最多一次的投資是1227億最少是7.56億所以米兆過去的經驗看來要從5000億增加到1兆 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
8726.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
8753.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
這合不合理我跟委員報告過去大家都講是說都沒有用到兩千億那因為兩千億它是一個天花板所以我們在操作的時候就會考慮到說我們會不會就是超過這個天花板因為操作的時候會非常的保守我知道大概因為時間的關係因為這一次的修法因為你們沒有版本行政院沒有版本雖然沒有版本但我知道我最後想問你 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
8754.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
8774.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
因為剛才賴市保委員也提到是不是我們要先就先開公聽會廣納專家學者及社會各界的意見作為我們修法的參考這個當然這個你同不同意這個看委員會的決議不過我跟委員報告雖然是說這一次沒有願版但是這一次雖然是委員提的版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
8775.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
8796.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
但是行政院就這個案子來講我們表達非常清楚明確的立場所以對這個案子完全沒有模糊的沒有模糊的空間所以我們對這個案子來講所以你是贊成這一次的修法你是贊成基本上是就整個我們就國安基金來講不用再召開公聽會了 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
8798.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
8805.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
這個看委員會的決議如果可以都聽取的話 也許是個好事謝謝 我是建議還是開一下比較好謝謝謝謝澤偉 謝謝市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
8824.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
8830.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
接下來我們請李坤成委員質詢請謝主席我們請莊部長還有阮次長請部長跟次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
8839.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
8855.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
委員好部長好 市長好因為本席這次針對國安基金有提案不過在問這個之前我先問一下我們普發現金到現在從11月12號開始到現在已經將近一個月了不曉得現在普發現金的情況是怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
8857.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
8867.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
五發現金現在非常的順利那目前已經有超過2000萬的人已經領了超過2000萬喔對 已經超過2000萬的民眾已經領了大概我們昨天算到大概超過85%的民眾已經領了因為我們這裡面有那領的方式咧 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
8877.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
8901.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
領的方式裡面第一個透過網路登記入帳的有42.55%是最高那其次就是ATM領的就是24.16%比例是這麼高那另外我們有直接入帳也就是他有固定領政府津貼的部分有22.75%就是說他不需要去做任何事我們就直接劃入了他的帳號 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
8902.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
8906.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
大概有458萬那到郵局領獻的是10.28%是207萬的民眾已經領了所以總共已經超過2000萬的民眾已經領了大概數字多少 2000萬多少2000萬 你說實際的數字是多少對 目前 2012萬我們算到昨天下午是2012萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
8923.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
8929.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
那佔預估的人口我們大概預估是2,356萬4,696人大概佔了85%以上的人所以一個月就是大概有85%人有領到這個1萬塊了一個月了因為我記得是11月12號到現在將近一個月了那速度還滿快的目前執行起來有什麼問題嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
8948.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
8973.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
最近起來沒有什麼大問題好 那我就來問國安基金了這個國安基金本席的提案就是說本來現在是五千億實際上就是銀行是兩千億四大基金是三千億所以我們提案是增加到一兆其中是把銀行借款的部分從兩千億增加到七千億就增加五千億我們四大基金的地方我們就不去動 不去處理了 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
8974.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
8999.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
主要就是說一些客觀數字來看剛剛其實次長 部長也都有提到就是說我們現在的上市櫃公司的市值已經97兆了跟89年成立的時候那時候是才9.2兆已經成長了10.5倍而且我們的外資也不斷的持股的比例也不斷的增加然後就算從今年的4月9號 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9002.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9026.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
國安基金進場後盤到現在11月底外資累計賣超達到3940億其實已經遠超過國安基金的2000億了所以雖然現在只有我原版就是我跟郭國文委員的版本我再問一下次長您是執行秘書對於國安基金增加從5000億增加到1兆我們這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9031.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9042.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
次長您的看法我剛才有報告過那麼這一個案子雖然行政院沒有提版本但是由委員還有另外就是郭委員來提的 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9044.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9055.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
但是這一次我們才就是行政院有表達非常清楚的立場針對這個案子我們基本上是贊成的你們立場就是贊成好支持所以其實提案這個理由客觀數據都寫得很清楚絕對不是危言聳聽說什麼兩岸戰爭了所以我們才要把這一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9069.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9095.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
國安基金把他的金額可以提高因為其實 因為剛剛委員有在問就是說你有2000億也夠用但是你是省著用因為你有2000億而已是只有2000億所以委員謝謝你讓我有機會說明我們因為在操作的時候因為我們是考慮到那個上限所以我們都會省著用我看你都很省著用你等於是用很少的這些錢來做點火對 點火 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9097.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9117.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
因為不知道後面還有沒有更大的攻盤的現象所以我們在用的時候前面通膽都會比較省但是這樣做法就會影響到我們護盤的功能一定會影響到功能所以說現在把你的上限提高其實就是讓你的子彈增加因為未來會面臨到什麼樣的情況其實不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9118.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9134.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
但是至少讓國人知道說我們國安基金有增加了表示說是政府對於這個股市是非常重視的因為股市會影響到這個所謂的經濟和一般的民心所以我是認為應該是增加到一兆 這個妥當 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9139.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9155.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
財政部包含執行秘書 次長你也認為現在行政院的態度就是表示支持就對了是另外我跟委員包括剛才委員提到一個很重要的問題有些委員有說我們這次提的時候是不是有特殊的實際考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9157.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9181.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
那我是覺得一碼歸一碼沒有 因為不是願板 是我委員提的就是兩件事情跟這個所謂的明年的所謂的什麼特別預算其實是完全是兩件事情我覺得沒有 因為其實很單純如果今天是有願板那願板就是你提出來你可能你有的 你都考量那現在很單純就是我跟郭國文兩個的版本那我當召委我就這時候排出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9182.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9197.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
沒有什麼樣的一個動機也不是說什麼兩岸有什麼樣的問題沒有 我們是希望說讓政府的子彈多一點讓投資人多一些信心就這樣而已不過我再請教一下啦我們現在的這一個這一次的護盤的時間是從4月9號開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9201.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9219.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
到現在11月了對不對還在 國外經濟還在所以還在的主要理由是不是因為關稅都還沒有確定因為當時進場的時候就是在剛好台美對等關稅對等關稅宣布以後那時候就是我們不是大跌了2000多點 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9220.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9225.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
然後第二天也是一樣大跌所以那時候經過委員會議決議就要進場因為這個當時進場的原因還沒有消失因為台美的租稅的關稅的談判還沒有簽協議所以我們不知道結果到底怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9238.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9265.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
那外界的反應會怎麼樣如果反應如果是很大家非常的可以接受的話我們會建議就是國安基金管理委員會開會那麼來檢討退場的事宜好 那請問一下那我們是跟這個台灣銀行來借款嗎是不是目前是這樣那是有借才要付利息沒有借要不要付利息要 沒有借要付利息那我們一年利息現在是付多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9266.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9268.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
對不起 利息 沒有借也要付利息 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9269.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9297.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
沒有借沒有啊我剛有聽委員問說沒有借的話一年要付70幾億利息來你講清楚沒借也要付利息嗎沒有借當然不付那為什麼他就用5000億來跟你算一年要付70幾億的利息你講清楚但是他不讓我講所以沒有借當然就沒有付利息的問題我們現在就說借多少那就按照多少去算利息 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9297.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9316.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
對 應該是借多少然後利息算多少不可能說沒有借而且這個兩千億是台灣銀行就是預計跟銀行借三千億是這個四大基金所以也不可能用五千億去算對啊 我剛剛看你說你是好像沒有時間回答所以我在這個地方讓你問清楚所以不可能說你有70幾億的利息 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9318.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9343.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
不可能嘛對 沒錯好 那我再請教一下因為剛好 那次長請回我請教部長因為其實上次我在質詢的時候有提到說因為我們現在普發現金就是有很多的一個方法可以領那時候我有提到說一個國民的單一帳戶的制度就是說小孩出生我們就給他一個帳戶然後如果政府有類似這一種 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9345.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9358.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
補貼補助的話都可以匯到這個帳戶來所以也防止詐騙那也簡單清楚然後我剛好看到說美國川普總統他有一個川普的帳戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9360.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9381.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
這個川普賬戶他是說只要小孩子一出生然後政府當然他的任期之內政府會給予這一個1000美金這個種子基金然後除了政府給的之外你家庭成員也可以提撥然後雇主也可以提撥那這樣的方式這筆錢你都不能動用你必須要滿18歲的時候你才可以作為你的購房教育創業 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9390.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9410.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
這些用途才可以使用它基本上是給小孩的第一桶金那也鼓勵企業來投資也鼓勵父母來投資孩子的未來然後這個就是等於是用複利的一個效果讓孩子們這一出生到18歲之後可以累積他的第一桶金那我請問一下 這個部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9413.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9433.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
你覺得我們台灣要不要有類似的這一種我們給小孩子零歲出生我們就給他的賬物我們給他第一桶金然後藉由政府 家庭 企業一起來讓我們的孩子下一代在18歲之後至少他有第一桶金可以使用家長的負擔也不會那麼重 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9435.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9456.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
謝謝委員 我想委員這樣的一個建議事實上也因應了現在少子女化的一個情況然後有一個兒少我們這邊兒少是有一個單一帳戶但並不是全部 那是一個志願性的並不是強制它不是有條件限制嗎我記得它有條件限制好像是中低收入戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9458.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
9483.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
沒有 沒有限制我想這個部分因為涉及到內政部跟教育部我們想這個部分我們會再來聯繫到進一步再跟委員做說明我是希望說剛好有這一個川普賬戶可以作為參考你剛才講那個我記得這個內政部我以前記得就是說有但是那個好像有這個限制所以那個申請的那個賬戶的人家庭數也很少 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
9483.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
9500.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
跟這個普遍的每一個小孩子他出生就有一個帳戶政府投資 企業投資那個完全不一樣是不同的概念你們去研究一下好不好謝謝委員了解我們在因為我上次有提到你們說要跟這個國發會做研究我也不曉得到底後來你當時是用全體國民有一個單一帳戶那這邊又是國民單一帳戶跟兒少這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
9505.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
9517.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
好 你們來想一下好不好好 謝謝謝謝李崑禎召委謝謝主席接下來請陳玉珍委員質詢謝謝主席我們有請財政部請莊部長謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
9535.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
9550.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
委員好 部長好 我們有提出一個初餐公共建設 影子路公建擴大租稅抵減 公建類別新增影視音設施 綠燈設施 數位建設 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
9552.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
9567.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
那衛生福利部事實上也有訂這個就是機構住宿式的這個服務的長照這個機構是一個重大公共建設範圍要符合中央衛生主管機關公告衛生園區資源不足地區比如說金門然後土地開發面積達2公頃總投資為5億元 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
9572.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
9583.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
那請問這個修正以後是不是代表說如果我們民間有民間願意在我們金門投資設立住宿型長照機構都可以被列入重大公共建設計畫的範圍內我們基本是符合這個跟委會報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
9588.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
9602.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
重大公共建設範圍是出產法裡面有一個規定然後那個重大公共建設範圍怎麼樣去定義由各目的事業主管機關去訂定它的門檻如果符合它所定義的重大公共建設的計畫的範圍的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
9603.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
9620.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
那他就有相關的優惠的措施包含租稅我知道那為何不因為今天沒有來因為這個主要是你們主管的金門現在是一個屬於醫療資源不足的地區我在說你們這個案子很好我想說我們金門如果這樣子是不是有符合 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
9620.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
9642.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
如果這個金門是不是符合我覺得要回去看他的那個所訂的你們的規定是這樣子啊還是你請這位旁邊這位是處長的喔市長好 市長麻煩您那有關那個住宿市長照機構的一個重大公共建設的一個門檻他必須符合投資金額不含土地達到新台幣3.5億元以下 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
9644.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
9662.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
3.5億元對3.5億還有就是說他提供的一個床位的規模要達到100人以上那另外還有他的那個總樓地板面積必須達到2700平方公尺以上而且每個人配置的面積不可以少於27平方公尺好那這中間還是要一個面積限制金額嘛面積嘛請問財政部因為國產署也在這裡這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
9668.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
9679.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
基本很多土地因為戰地政務解除後很多地就變成了國有地那如果民間投資符合這個重大公建計畫的話是不是也可以把這些零星的公有土地讓售給這個申請人可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
9681.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
9696.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
報告委員可以因為國產法國有土地的取得如果民間他有興辦事業計畫需要的話是可以來跟我們申請委託經營的我是說土地的讓售讓售的話當然不能超過1650500坪 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
9698.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
9718.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
一樣是1650對 但是我們可以提供那個剛剛講的委託經營大概一個時期大概是三四年這樣160的話這個面積會符合這個重大公共建設計畫因為這個面積算是不大像樓地板面積到時候這個處三四那邊會符合嗎等於是因為這邊沒什麼土地大部分都是政府的 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
9719.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
9737.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
那這樣子會符合重大公設計畫嗎你的樓益版面積他定義的部分包括投資金額當然面積的話是公司合併計算那個我想沒有影響OK 所以好 謝謝那財政部要麻煩你們再幫我們多介紹一些看有沒有人願意到金門做一些重大的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
9738.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
9761.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
公共建設投資那是不是也提供一些誘因政策上誘因比如說在租稅上要有一些優惠不然的話尤其長照的部分這在金門來講金門老齡化高齡化很嚴重那如果說又是偏遠離島如果在政策上沒有多給一點優惠的話一點誘因不管是租稅不管是租稅方面土地方面各方面的誘因的話是比較少的人願意到金門去做相關大的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
9762.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
9782.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
公共建設 尤其是長照的部分這個財政部是不是可以幫我們研擬一些相關的優惠方案道理導序比較辛苦不管是興建或是什麼各方面都比較辛苦報告委員國有財產為了配合國家推動長照政策我們有推了一個叫做指定產業設定地上權 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
9785.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
9800.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
那如果金門有人願意去投資那我們如果有適當的土地他是可以有比較低的潛力金的這個計費的收費方式是有這樣的一個機制不過長照大家也都知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
9802.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
9821.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
它的获利性比较低对然后所以在租税方面财政部这边还有门槛最主要是门槛因为现在规定是要财团法人医疗机构式的财团法人不是一般的公司行号可以受制的OK 那这个租税方面呢财政部是不是可以提供一些租税上的诱因 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
9823.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
9835.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
主要是重大公共建設範圍的話那在租稅上它就是有優惠的那另外衛福部對於長照也有相關的補助那另外在所得稅的部分扣除我也可以已經從12萬調到18萬這是剛通過的 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
9839.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
9867.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
但是我覺得還是同樣的條件如果條件跟本島一樣沒有人要去離島啦大家也知道嘛這個獲利比較差離島的成本比較高人員比較不好取得嘛那這邊請部長是不是責成這個相關的包括租稅方面 土地方面出產市方面幫我們想一些方法好嗎在法律運行方面多想一些優因讓相關的單位願意到金門去做相關的投資啊不然一樣條件大家都要留在台灣做啊 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
9868.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
9875.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
這個是不是請部長多幫忙是 謝謝多久內可以幫我想出一些你們的這個因為畢竟公務部門人才幾級 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
9877.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
9897.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
對 那我想我們在出差這個地方我們會把相關的一些優惠把它羅列出來那鼓勵民間去那邊做投資這是優惠羅列出來我要想是更進一步的比本島還要更優惠一點的誘因啦這個恐怕要結合衛福部好 那在你想一下 我給你現在12月可不可以再過年前給我啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
9899.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
9917.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
給我們三個月時間可以嗎三個月好麻煩您謝謝還有部長以前我們金門小山東碼頭是一個小的碼頭就相對航扇大樓比較小現在我們已經蓋了一棟新的大樓預計在1月底開始啟用原來在疫情前 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
9918.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
9932.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
我們政府的這個台銀跟土銀都在原來的水頭碼頭的那個小三通港口那個口岸都有社會辦理人民幣的兌換服務那疫情過後就沒有了就是就已經沒有銀行在水頭碼頭做這個社會的辦理這個兌換的服務那 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
9936.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
9962.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
我們新的這個大樓在1月底大概明年的1月中 1月底會開始落成啟用那大陸客現在因為有開放到金門觀光所以觀光客每天也是最多有到一天來到7000人嘛那很多金門的鄉親或是小山東經過金門的這個台灣鄉親也會從這裡過去那事實上有很也是有一定的換匯需求那台銀土銀這個部分是不是準備要入住到新的這個旅客服務中心提供換匯的服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
9963.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
9978.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
是不是會後容我們由國庫署在跟那個土銀跟台銀了解好不好我跟您說一下事實上我已經有了解了就是說好像我們現在金門的土銀跟台銀土銀最近剛剛又合併了土銀跟台銀對去設這個好像意願缺缺因為稍微 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
9979.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
9998.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
稍微因為碼頭比較遠一點可能要輪流去上班在地的那種距離感的話很多人可能不願意但這個可能還是需要財政部的大力的支持由上而下因為民眾的確有這個需求然後另外在這個這個桃園機場的部分你看喔台灣銀行現在在桃園機場有六台的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
9999.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10006.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
台外幣現鈔的兌換機這是一個新型的換匯如果說這是一個新型的換匯的機制如果說真的是因為人員調度困難或是不願意的話是不是也比照這個桃園機場在桃園機場也是有設這種新型的換匯機因為金門也算是一個很頻繁的國門 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10024.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10047.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
經過的人也很多每天也大概六七千人節假日的時候甚至來回都有一萬多人事實上這個需求是有的我們也讓合法的管道可以暢通所以像你看這種新型的外幣兌換的機器可以在金門裝幾台週休日銀行沒有營業的時候也可以換貨這個應該算是很容易的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10049.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10075.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
我們會後再跟台銀再來評估一下我們再請他們來評估一下好不好不用評估 兩台機器在國門總是小事一樁第一個就是說最好是平常就有人然後機器如果有的話如果裝的夠多老百姓可以正常的換會的話真的沒有人也還算是還可以 您懂我意思嗎那最好是當然一定要有人所以你這個最好兩樣都有 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10078.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10086.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
委員的訴求我們一定會去表達這個是有需求民眾有需求盡快跟我回答好嗎好謝謝部長謝謝委員好謝謝陳玉珍委員我們現在休息10分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10716.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10739.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
好 我們現在繼續開會我們請下一位羅明財委員主席各位出列席官員大好主席可不可以請國安基金的執行秘書阮清華 阮市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10743.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10768.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
行政院的副主席長委員好陳副主席長25年前本席在一樓那時候金管會跟財政部門有分家的時候在一樓我們在那邊通過了國安基金的一個設置條例 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10770.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10784.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
成功的扮演的救火隊的角色歷年來都有很多重大的國際變動的情況你也知道什麼時候可以動用國安基金 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10785.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10814.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
國安基金條例都有明確規定比如說碰到重大的事件國際的因素或者是特別政治變化等等因素然後大家信心不足然後股市就崩跌了這種話所以國安基金它扮演一個非常成功稱職的角色過去它的規模很小就大概8兆左右所以我們當初的考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10815.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10830.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
就是大概週轉率大概算一算大概是3%到5%可以維持一定一天的那個量都還OK當然不是說讓你一次都用盡記得以前最會操盤的大概是財政部部長他是試兩波千金 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10834.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10855 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
他就聞風不動 早上7點半突然通知所有的媒體 記者 財經記者就是守在財政部舊的辦公室外面那個地方請大家喝豆漿 吃燒餅油條大家都想說有什麼事情要發布 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10856.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10881.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
他說沒有 沒有過一陣子就說有一些委員都會到現場來所以就一場騷動所以這個鵝魚我炸就是這樣四兩撥千斤的一毛錢都沒動隔天就翻漲所以國安基金的設置他必須要膽子夠大 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10882.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10904.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
他必須要震得住整個規模他必須要讓市場有信心現在國安金的推動當初跟現在比起來是這個市況不一樣現在都快100兆差很多了快100兆了對 現在100兆現在政府基期是不是在做多 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10906.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
10926.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
沒有所謂做多的問題我們基本上 國安基金基本上是維護股市的穩定維護投資人的信心沒有像剛才委員講的那種情況不過就是先穩定嘛 穩定了以後再做多 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
10927.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
10948.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
也不會做多其實我們有 官方基金有限制因為我們買跌不買漲市長 你也客氣啦當然你的心理就是扮演好你的角色在全世界每一個國家當然都希望股市可以欣欣向榮蓬勃發展因為股市是經濟的櫥窗嘛你股市好 做得棒 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
10949.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
10968.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
你執政就不會有什麼太大的一個牽連或者是負面的影響所以全民財富就增加你有沒有算過從25年到現在市場規模多了快90兆平均一個股民賺了多少錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
10969.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
10982.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
我是沒有算因為這個很難算為什麼因為每一個人的投資的績效都不太一樣有些人可能是用當沖的方式那有些是長期投資我們現在開戶的這個戶數有多少這個部分因為我沒有去計算一千兩百多戶吧一千兩百多萬戶因為有重複開戶的應該有機會比較有經常在這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
10998.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11020.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
买卖股市的流动性比较多的正常户大概有多少这一部分因为都是金管会在主管大概有四五百万户所以其实在台湾的经济方面股市是很热络的意思都是这样子所以分析一位既然你刚刚讲的安定很重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11022.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11047.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
凡是整個台灣之於全世界我們的確要加強一個強心劑所以過去是大概國安基金的借錢什麼規模是五千億今天有人提到大概就是債錢到一兆其實如果相比過去的倍數來說的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11049.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11069.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
大概是成長了快十倍左右所以十倍 照理說應該要五兆但是我覺得五兆可能恐怕現在目前的財政情況還有點小困難所以本席提出的是兩兆兩兆的規模或者是三兆 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11071.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11085.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
市長你覺得兩兆好還是三兆好我感謝委員長期關注股市我現在跟委員報告一下民國89年的時候如果用5000億來算的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11087.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11100.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
那時候它跟市值的佔比大概百分之五點四三五點多五點四三那我們現在假定提高到一兆一兆的話如果跟現在的市值來比的話它佔比大概百分之1.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11102.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11120.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
其實是滿低的但是我的意思是說有時候如果提得太高也有一些後遺症 為什麼如果你提太高如果你進場入馬太多的話出場也會有退場的時候也會有一些會影響股市的這些狀況其實國安基金很多人都是覺得它很神秘 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11123.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11143.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
從這20年來它的績效評比來說很多股民說你現在快3萬點了很多股民多數還是苦哈哈沒有賺到錢所以很多人就說來一個傻瓜投資法就跟著國安基金走讓你想要什麼通通有市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11146.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11173.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
你總共操盤大概有幾次我這個超過 這個是第三次這次是第九次就是從國安卿 因為還有前任以前曾明聰 曾主委那時候當次長 他有操盤超過我是協助 那時候是協助你有在場但是我獨立操作大概三次你三次 全部加起來有幾次全部加起來九次九次喔 有九次裡面大概獲利有沒有超過20%的 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11176.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11196.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
有好幾個都超過20%對 都超過20%所以很多人說你們很厲害然後你剛剛講說買了你們希望就是要退場其實你在第一次就是前8次 前9次的時候你們那時候有沒有買台積電 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11198.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11223.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
我不方便在這邊公開講那你可以不要回答那你們有買很多的台積電當初如果買台積電你買了那你不要賣放到現在那不是替國家賺更多的錢嗎而且還有一點你賺的這些錢累積了以後你不見得一定要百分之百繳國庫 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11225.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11241.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
本席認為你覺得這個基金規模不夠那你可以一半繳國庫一半就留著次長你有沒有算過你9次的操盤如果每一次都累積50%到現在大概有多少金額 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11242.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11258.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
累積到現在 對如果是說都不賣是吧就是你有賺有賠那賺的比較多就如果每一次都結清累積到現在賺的部分有多少這個沒有去算過好 那翻譯句話說不要說50%9次算下來總共賺了多少錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11262.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11286.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
五百六十幾 五百六十四億五百多億所以你如果說一半的話是留兩百五十億左右放在你的國安基金裡面以備不時之需我跟委員報告目前的國安基金的規定是說它如果經過委員會決議通過以後基本上是繳庫因為放在國安基金國安基金因為已經退場 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11287.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11313.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
你也不能再做任何的用途只能存到銀行裡面生利息就等於是說浪費那個資源所以如果是說要做別的用途那可能就是大家要共識而且可能會涉及到修法的問題資源到底要怎麼運用但是如果是從國庫的管理來看我們基本上是支持統修統資比較不希望這個為了長治久安 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11316.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11329.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
然後這個國安基金是一個非常重要的信心的指標本席建議提高到兩兆的規模如果大家有故事的話因為比例上剛剛都已經討論過你要往兩兆的目標來努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11333.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11359.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
那國庫缺不缺錢我想因為我們是借錢我們是跟金融機構來借貸那如果是提高到一點假定是兩兆兩兆 對兩兆的話那就等於是說假定四大基金那三千億還是維持等於換句話說貸款就要達到1.7兆那1.7兆的話可能就是說單家的金融機構可能就吃不下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11360.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11377.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
可能就是到時候可能還在安排可能就是會有一些貸款的一些問題你氣勢如虹才可以匆匆容容你要有底氣啊你如果當個小氣財神大家覺得不痛不癢信心不足啊而且 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11378.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11406.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
如果今天可以確定通過兩兆的國安基金我相信台灣的股市馬上就會飛躍三萬點有沒有信心我沒辦法表達對未來的股市的發展我不是股神但是我是覺得說如果我們國安基金如果從目前的可用兩千億如果提高比如說到七千億的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11407.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11428.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
我相信對這個股市的穩定還有這個投資信心一定有很大的幫助好 謝謝反正你現在大概起跳都一兆啦那我們希望再討論看看心有餘力就往上加好 謝謝羅委員要跟你們同黨委員溝通一下他們有不同的意見好 接下來我們請王世堅委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11445.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11449.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
謝謝主席 我請財政部莊部長請莊部長法務部有過來法務部法務部廖參事 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11474.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11488.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
部長我記得這一年來我大概跟你提了有三次就是說關於促參法應該納入強制仲裁這個規定讓公益最大化那麼我當時 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11492.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11510.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
根據你的答覆其實你本身你蠻贊成的你並不反對因為我們看得到現在促參這個爭議頻頻那要解決這些爭議如果讓他們用一般訴訟的方式那會是曠日廢時損害公義 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11514.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11525.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
所以我就提了說那是不是我們就強制仲裁來處理那當時你給我的答覆你跟我說其實你有問了最關鍵的就是法務部法務部他們反對他們說認為說如果把促參案件納入強制仲裁的話他說這是違憲 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11541.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11566.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
說這個是我們強制政府機關訴訟變成好像說這個是違憲就對了所以今天法務部來了我就問一下法務部法務部為什麼將強制仲裁納入就叫做違憲叫做強制政府機關訴訟為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11572.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11596.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
因為這個議題我先前沒有參與過了就我所知的目前的仲裁法它採取的是合一仲裁為原則但是仲裁法也有允許你把問題帶回去我告訴你 政府採購法 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11598.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11604.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
就是有強制仲裁啊政府採購法第85條寫的這麼清楚如果你們法務部還說促參案納入強制仲裁叫做違憲的話那請問啊政府採購法也違憲嗎就這個問題你待會去問 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11621.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11644.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
好不好好謝謝你不能說你以後上台答覆拜託你也說一些比較古典的那表示哪有說你今天來開會啦四射的是財政部國發會我們會提到的所有的議題那你現在一問三不知你說是因為你沒有參與 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11646.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11664.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
報告委員 我剛剛要說明的就是說我們的仲裁法的規定制度上就是原則上它是以合一仲裁 依仲裁法來進行但是仲裁法也有允許法律如果有特別規定的話是可以允許的 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11664.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11693.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
政府的採購法這就規定得很清楚啊機關不同意自調解不成立者廠商提交仲裁機關不得拒絕這是不是強制仲裁就這麼簡單嘛條文寫這麼清楚你剛剛的那一個答案是不是容我會後了解一下就是說到底那個背景是怎麼樣問題就是剛才講得這麼簡單你回去那你什麼多久可以給我答覆 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11694.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11721.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
我們一個禮拜內可以給委員答覆然後你把當初答覆莊部長那拒絕這個案子到底源頭是誰你也告訴我好不好我覺得這是很莫名其妙那個莊部長你知道嗎這麼多年來我們有多少曠日廢食導致損害公益的這些促餐案 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11722.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11745.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
我隨便念幾句前年你們財政部有推要不然說如果有爭議那先用爭議調解但是前年推了到去年8月為止只有11件提出才4件有通過調解成立 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11747.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11758.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
再來我們把時間更拉長的話從去年8月算起到今年8月去年8月到今年8月總共197件 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11763.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11784.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
解約的有1293億還在促進民間資金參與公共建設這樣子的大前提之下竟然這麼多的案子有爭議然後去年8月到今年8月提前解約的就215件1421億那麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11790.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11796.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
其中有47件有464億是觀光遊樂休憩現在我們國內國旅這麼差你看嘛我們國內觀光遊樂休憩這樣子引進民間參與的案子多數是失敗的 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11813.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11840.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
那難怪國旅那麼好的一些景點設備沒辦法更新地方老舊甚至有公共危險的地方都完全沒辦法你比方說這個屏東遠在屏東的大鵬灣那麼好的構想計畫拖了十幾年還在那邊捧一年耐一年你看 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11841.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11862.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
所以我認為啦既然雙方不合啦有爭執啦那就快速解決因為訴訟法院案量實在太大啦那真的是曠日廢時好不好所以我希望這件事情我要求法務部他說一個禮拜答覆那你也繼續追蹤他們好 謝謝委員是 謝謝法務部那你請回我請那個國發會 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11875.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11877.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
國發會是經濟發展處專門委員國發會你們整個國發會在我看兩個字我形容 天兵 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11892.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11909.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
你們對外宣稱說促餐案大成長了到今年10月你們總共說169件2246億我放一個也是你們的表格你們的表格我怎麼加 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
11910.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
11928.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
怎麼加 75加57 57加就怎麼加都沒有169件金額更是沒有你說的2246億那這就算了我看你們從107年到現在107年前5年 107到111年有 有成長 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
11936.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
11956.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
從1375億每一年83件有增加到一年139件2828億但是就從隔一年112年開始你們就衰退啦一路就下滑那這下滑不打緊 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
11957.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
11985.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
我另外兩個字形容你們所有案子虛胖你們是促參法的案子你把其他法令的大眾運輸捷運法大眾捷運法你也納入都市更新條例獎勵的你們那些其他法令的你們通通納入所以結果看起來有那麼多案子結果叫做什麼叫做虛胖嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
11986.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
12006.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
所以我希望你們認清事實認清說你們從過去到現在很多的案子根本就是拼拼湊湊拼拼湊湊我們政府要用促成法就是希望能夠引進能夠獎勵刺激民間的資金進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
12007.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
12033.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
現在有個大問題啦部長知道啊所以部長有跟院長都有溝通過就是我們這個受險資金我們全國受險資金餘額到去年為底35兆裡面7成被這些受險業者拿去國外買海外的基金債券那有兩大風險一個戰爭一個匯率兩個風險我們都碰到啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
12037.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
12058.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
所以我們的財政部在我們財會委員會嚴格要求監管之下他們就是要去趕快去誘導這些受險資金就是民間資金趕快回到我們國家來參與我們國家的公共建設這是好事啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
12060.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
12080.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
結果你拖三拉四的你想想那麼多結果沒這麼多成績那你列了這些預算預算我們倒是不會再找你們什麼麻煩啦102年開始你們這些花了7億2千萬元那花過去就算了啦因為你們成績 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
12081.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
12103.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
有消也有成長這個我沒話講今天你們又再度編了五億一千七百一十萬我希望你們好好把握這些錢這些資金就是用來讓你們好好的想方設法去誘導民間的資金參與國家的公共建設可不可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12105.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12135.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
是 那跟委員說明就是整個兆元投資國家這個發展方案這個計畫呢基本上就是要吸引這個保險業者來做這個相關的一個投資那這個部分的一個那個他的一個計算呢那在當初方案的設定就是包括這促倉案件跟採用其他相關法令來吸引民間投資達到吸引民間投資的一個案件通通都記錄所以才會這個在整個的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12135.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12157.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
金額或者案件的計算上面呢跟委員如果只單從素餐案件來計算上面數字會有所不同那至於在這個基礎建設認定的這個部分呢那這個目前的因為他的一個申請是個案申請所以是由業者他們是他們需求來提出申請那我們這邊都有列管來協助業者來做認定 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12159.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12181.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
你們有很多定義你們自己把它條列寬鬆了很多定義都不是很清楚我希望你們回去加強我剛剛念的這幾個數字都完全確實正確你們回去看清楚好不好好 謝謝王委員接下來我們請黃珊珊委員黃珊珊委員黃珊珊委員不在場下一位我們請邱益穎委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12200.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12202.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
謝謝主席我是不是請一下莊部長我們請莊部長委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12208.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12235.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
部長好部長我想我們今天在討論這個財政收支劃分法我不曉得您內心對於這個法在過去短短的一年之內經歷過了兩次的修法那現在行政院提出的版本又在上個禮拜被藍白聯手把它複譯掉其實我內心是覺得非常的可悲啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12236.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12249.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
到底國家的財政要被在野黨的藍白兩黨的委員毀壞到什麼樣的程度過去兩度修的法荒腔走板 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12251.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12276.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
那大家一直會講這個以前的才化法對中南部的縣市是極度的不公平所以行政院應該要提出版本出來甚至呢這個上一次的這個召委坐在這個台上的時候邀請的縣市首長來包括我們高雄市的陳其邁市長親自到了現場一句話都沒讓他講直接就把會議結束掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12277.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12303.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
部長我想要問他們一直說國民黨的前的這個政策會智庫執行長柯之恩委員一直說這個民進黨不負責任因為行政院不提版本好現在行政院提了版本了他又說行政院這個版本的指標呢更細緻更值得採用這是他說的但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12304.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12316.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
他卻寧可當傅坤祺的投票機器他寧可讓程旭委員會持續的封殺甚至在上個禮拜的復議案還是投下了反對票 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12318.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12342.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
部長我想請教到底行政院這一個版本您認為該不該拿出來讓大家好好的檢視好好的討論這個對於台灣整體的每一個縣市的財政規劃有什麼更優勢的地方部長我讓您幾分鐘的時間讓您說明一下好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12343.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12345.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
謝謝委員我想我們一直在說財化法的修正涉及到各級政府之間財源的重新分配他一定要經過審慎的規劃而且要充分的討論所以院版的財化法經過多次的跟地方政府討論而且參酌了 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12361.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12384.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
專家學者的意見我們提出這樣的一個修法版本那這個修法版本其實它最重要的一個目標是要讓我們的國民生活品質更均衡也就是說地方自治事項地方要辦的事項政府會我們透過中阿統籌分配稅款給這個地方政府去做第一個讓他的財政自主可以更提升而且地方自治事項可以做得更透實 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12385.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12392.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
那這樣子在國民的生活品質更平均然後第二個就是說我們城鄉之間的分配要更公平委員您來自南部您很清楚我們南部第一個它的工廠在那邊營業額可能都在北部然後因為營業額的比例在那麼高所以讓台北市貨配的金額超過了它去年一整年的金額就這個部分高雄的土地是台北的十倍大 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12414.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12439.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
所有的污染都在南部結果呢你們的這個營業營利事業營收總額的配比台北分到最多理由是什麼不是台北特別會招商啊不是台北特別會做生意啊是企業總部都設在台北污染都在高雄中油台電中鋼污染都在高雄 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12440.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12457.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
該不該修該不該修正當然應該修正嘛土地面積是高雄的土地面積是台北的十倍我們要負擔的人口比重土地比重包括基礎建設的比重都比台北來的大 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12458.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12482.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
都比台北要多很多這個比重該不該調整環境負擔的指數該不該把它納入未來的才化法裡頭我認為是必須我看到現在行政院的版本也納進去也放進來了對不對所以如果是這樣我不懂為什麼在野黨不讓這個版本進入委員會來討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12485.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12498.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
不讓我們討論不讓大家了解到底行政院應該要怎麼樣負責任的重新規劃整個財政授之劃分法為什麼不讓我們討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12500.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12506.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
謝謝委員我覺得院版的才化法在分配指標裡面是更為均衡您剛剛所提到的沒有錯我們把工業就業人口也放進來同時對中高污染的部分給予加成這個就是考慮到這個一個均衡的問題還有農林榆木的就業人口跟農林榆木的產值也都放進來我們不能只照顧商業發展的城市我們對於我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12526.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12544.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
農村鄉村他對於國家糧食的貢獻應該要給予回饋跟當地的民眾要給予照顧這就是我們城鄉分配更均衡我很欣慰聽到您的這一番話主席已經站起來我就不耽誤大家的時間不過我還是希望要在這裡誠懇的呼籲藍白的委員怕什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12545.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12561.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
不要怕嘛大家各自有主張就把各自的版本放到立法院來好好的討論而不是用多數的暴力想要表決想要強度關山想要強姦政府我覺得這是不負責任的做法謝謝部長好 謝謝邱委員接下來我們請黃國昌委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12579.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12607.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
來 謝謝主席 本來有請財政部部長以及主計總署副主計長今天是副主計長來嗎請莊部長 陳副主計長委員好不好意思 稍微等一下 我要上PPT你那個遙控器在我這嗎還是用他的 直接用他的 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12609.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12637.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
不好意思我把PDT先上今天我們財政委員會排審了財政收支化分法老實說對於這個議程我非常的驚訝我為什麼非常的驚訝這件事情一年前就在這邊處理了一年前就在這邊處理了怎麼會lag這麼久一年後在這邊排審一年前在這邊處理財政收支化分法的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12640.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12669.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
我聽到的是卓榮泰說現行的版本就是最好的版本這卓榮泰講的現行的版本就是最好的版本那等到現在又排審財政收支劃分法那也沒有關係啊既然排審了就好好來審既然排審就好好來審但我看了就覺得非常的訝異今天 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12670.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12696.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
針對委員所提出來的版本邱映穎委員賴瑞榮委員提了兩個版本我過去在看行政機關在處理法案的時候針對法案的審查所提出來的書面報告是針對所提出來的版本表達意見但請教一下主計總署 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12698.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12723.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
你們今天的這個報告為什麼沒有針對今天排在議程上面的版本表達意見跟我們報告就是說因為財化法這個主管機關是財政部那我們主計總處負責的是針對補助款配套的部分一樣啊今天他們所提出來的財化法修正條文的版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12725.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12752.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
也有處理相關的部分那我現在看不懂行政機關到立法院來基本的尊重展現在做該做的事情上我簡單來講就Do your jobDo your job但我第一次看到一個行政機關我們現在修法的版本我很想看一看說你們的意見是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12753.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12782.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
結果你們整份沒有這次修法版本的意見啊有有有跟文包我們最後有提到說委員所提跟補助相關的部分我們院版也有一起考量沒有啊 但是今天院版有排審嗎不是 我們有說明說今天院版有排審嗎今天我看不到你們對於委員所提出來的修法版本的意見啊我完全看不到啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12783.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12810.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
今天召委排ABC三個版本結果你整份報告在討論一個根本不存在的D版本行政機關怎麼會做這種事呢黃委員今天是討論委員版不好意思喔 現在是我質詢的時間對 我跟你說明一下討論委員版的版本我在質詢的是行政官員我沒有要質詢主席啦所以主席不用緊張 請坐下來好 我做個說明好 沒有關係所以我就讓你們好好的表達一下意見啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12812.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12839.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
賴瑞榮委員 邱益穎委員提案要把統籌分配款恢復去年修法以前意思是什麼他認為我們修法以後給地方政府的統籌分配款太多了 不合理所以他們今天提出來的法案 討論的法案是要把它修正為我們去年修正以前基本上他要做的事情就是undo |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12841.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12865.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
回復到修法前的狀態請問一下針對這兩個提案財政部贊不贊成跟委員報告在這兩個我們的書面報告裡面都有寫對於中央統計規劃的規模我們認為應該要把它擴大要擴大所以賴若龍跟邱盈盈的這兩個提案你們是不是不贊成我們認為應該把它擴大所以這兩個提案你們是不是不贊成 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12870.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
12891.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
我們認為院版裡面都已經有擴大了對啊 我現在問啦現在院版就沒有審嘛所以我問你嘛今天我們如果要討論今天排巡達就是要討論他們提出來的版本嘛所以我請教財政部嘛這兩個版本你贊不贊成我們認為應該要擴大所以你不贊成嘛對 我們認為可以擴大OK 好 來 主語記總處贊不贊成 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
12894.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
12911.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
他們認為說現在給地方政府的統籌分配款修法以後給太多啦他要回復到修法前的狀態主席總署贊不贊成我們主要就是因為法主要是財政部我們就配合財政部的意見所以沒有意見嘛那妳今天來幹嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
12914.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
12936.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
我們基本上還是有配套的部分補助款的部分所以我問你贊不贊成我們依法條論法條你討論法條的時候提出了修正版本說統籌分配款要修到修法前以前的狀態我很慎重我才問你贊不贊成你總要有立場有態度要不然你今天來練習幹嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
12938.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
12967.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
我們有立場啊 來說我不知道不是 我們有立場啊就是說所以妳贊不贊成不是 我們就是希望我們院版可以跟這些提案對嘛 所以我就一直跟你講院版沒有在桌上嘛我現在問妳的是被排審的這兩個法案妳贊不贊成贊成還不贊成我們沒有所謂贊成或反正我們就希望一起來一起討論啦針對這兩個版本所以主計總組是沒有意見就對了是嗎 是不是沒有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
12968.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
12988.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
奇怪你們來這邊練習要討論什麼法案把這個法案的內容先看過應該是基本功課吧我很詫異啦我請教你今天排審的法案主管機關的意見你們不敢表達意見那你們今天來幹嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
12990.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
13008.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
我聽不懂 我完全聽不懂沒有 不敢表達我們就是希望跟院板一起討論是沒有關係 謝謝好 謝謝黃委員我們也希望院板能夠進來討論那這樣子會更好接下來我們請鄭天才委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
13025.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
13041.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
財政部部長還有我們副組計長請莊部長成副組計長委員好辛苦了我們今天談財政說之花輪法原因就是出在 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
13045.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
13071.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
本来是没有问题的却是因为没有依法行政就造成了问题中央对直辖市及县市政府补助办法这个实施很多年了过去都没有问题因为没有依法行政就出了问题这个是依财政收支花轮法三十条还有地方制度法六十九条所定定的 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
13072.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
13100.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
這裡面都寫得都很清楚跟警政消防 加勤加班費還有國民年金法 農民健康保險條例老年農民福利津貼暫行條例及中低收入戶老人生活津貼發起辦法很多的法規也都明定這個地方政府要支出的部分可以在一般性補助款裡面來支應所以才會編列一般性補助款 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
13101.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
13128.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
這個相關的這些條文都很明確第三條第一項也都寫一般性補助款教育社會福利及基本設施等補助經費更明確的根據這些條文之後行政院主計總署將114年度中央政府總預算案編列依法例一物之初的明細表依法例一物之初 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
13130.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
13155.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
哪些經費多少錢總共多少經費都寫得很清楚2,501億但是呢審完預算之後也拖了好幾個月突然想到行政院突然想到我們先看這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
13157.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
13183.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
總統令因為立法院修了這個財政收支發生法包含了第三十條條文院長卓榮泰院長也附屬了就公布施行就生效了就是這個三十條做了這樣的一個修正這個行政院竟然在5月16號突然想到前面都沒有想到突然想到我們應該砍地方政府補助款 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
13186.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
13213.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
就造成这样的一个非常非常莫名其妙的所以我们尤其是祖籍总处都是公务人员部长也是公务人员出身都当了几十年的公务人员我自己过去也三十年公务人员真的是一个 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
13214.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
13238.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
變成一個不依法行政的中央接下來好多警察人員惹事條例公佈修正公佈啦也不編預算軍人待遇條例也公佈施行啦也不編預算這個國家怎麼會弄到這樣所以我們尤其是主計總署這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
13242.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
13266.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
就是要去把關了是 剛剛委員報告就是補助辦法就是它是配合財化法它是一個配套的機制所以剛剛委員所剛開始簡報所提的那個辦法它就是舊的財化法所配套的補助辦法那因為今年3月21號總統公佈了新的財化法所以我們依照 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
13267.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
13291.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
第30條授權訂的補助辦法所以我們去配套去修了我們的補助辦法所以基本上我們就依法行政完全錯誤這個法律的修正並沒有要你去修這個一般性補助款何況卓院長這個114年5月16號函 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
13298.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
13321.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
再修正 就是再大砍本来你已经列为法律义务支出你跟立法院说这个是法律义务支出然后砍这个就是没有依法行政所以这个部分我们现在怎么样去把这些问题尤其是115年度的预算 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
13322.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
13351.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
委员我真的要你先看 你先帮我仔细看这个115年度的更离谱委员我们真的是为了调计营需而修补助办法我会让你回答115年度的一般性补助款你先砍了大幅度把一般性补助款1764亿2000多万把它列为什么要计划型 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
13352.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
13375.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
然後砍了之後計劃型的然後把這些砍的又編給各部會又分配給各部會又增加了這些所以這個時間的關係這個我最主要就是說法律當然我們今天這個召委排了這個財化法的修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
13376.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
13399.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
我们希望能够大家及时管理但是我们就担心修法了之后又不执行现在这个国家已经面临这个问题了所以这个不用回应了真的报告就是我们统筹分配税有增加以后造成县市之间的不均衡我们修补住办法是要让县市去平衡它的差异 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
13400.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
13422.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
我沒有去提你修正的辦法那我們怎麼樣再能夠更符合相關的這些法制以及預算的編列所以我也在今天的財政收支發展法第30條的修正裡面能夠把它該放入該納入的 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
13424.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13443.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
一再的由行政權來去處理是不應該的謝謝 不好意思謝謝鄭委員接下來我們請楊瓊英委員楊瓊英委員楊瓊英委員不在場下一位徐欣穎委員徐欣穎委員徐欣穎委員不在場 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13444.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13455.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
下一位苏清泉委员苏清泉委员苏清泉委员不在场下一位林楚英委员林楚英委员林楚英委员不在场下一位张其凯委员 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13471.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
13476.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
現在財經部長叫副主席長好請莊部長陳副主席長兩位好我今天要替自己市民叫黃明慧黃市長討一個功德這邊11月14號財化法為什麼要再次修正就是要撥正撥亂反正把被 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13499.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13506.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
行政院亂砍地方的補助款要把這個亂撥成正的結果過了以後你們不依法行政違法亂紀還提了個復議案復議案提過來立法院投票都否決了結果現在總統在說什麼不執行把自己當土皇帝當土匪 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13526.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13554.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
你去霸凌地方政府在全國砍了多少的地方補助款這裡面關鍵數叫做2646億2646億耶所以22個縣市一年用的總預算的規模大概一兆多一點點你砍得下手 砍2646億搶回去違法而且是用搶的將近四分之一耶加一是更是受災 嚴重的受災戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13556.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13564.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
嘉義市砍掉69億這兩個關鍵數目是全國2646嘉義市就69億我今天討一個公道我問財政部長問副主席長你們憑什麼嘉義市要砍69億的地方補助款蛤 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
13580.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13604.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
委員我跟委員報告就是說我總數來看因為統籌分配稅這邊就是4165億的下放所以造成了這個貧富不均的現象更嚴重所以我們是調整我們是調整而不是刪減去調整所以讓他的差異變小你的名詞叫做調實際上就是砍 砍了69 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13607.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13628.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
中央的錢來自於地方 來自於人民耶那不是你民進黨的錢耶 也不是你行政的我們繳了稅金上來 用三種方式回到地方一種統籌款 一種計劃型跟地方的補助款 三種對不對對 阿蘇英文我們在去年底 修了統籌款為了這個統籌款 爭取嘉義市這個建設增加了66億 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13633.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13636.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
我特別跟委員報告就是說我們有特別拿300多億就是要保障三種錢不減少 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13653.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13666.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
所以這個部分我們是有承諾會保證嘉義絕對這三種錢加在一起不少於一百一十四黃明輝 黃市長給他說得清清楚楚現在大家我跟你說你砍的是什麼錢我先問你第一個問題我們這三種就是統籌款跟地方補助款跟計劃金補助款你有什麼道理 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
13674.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
13685.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
怎麼這樣面對嘉義市 面對環民會你為什麼統籌款 我辛辛苦苦我從去年2月1號當立委下來 進來 你看我執行這個統籌款的議題好幾次了對不對我當黨團的副總召 每次抄襲協商我是不是都逆增 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
13692.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
13717.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
不只是各個縣市特別嘉義市連他們派副市長上來開供電會我都還爭取讓他們上來講話就在力爭 因為嘉義市小而美 它的錢就很少嘛我們力爭了多少經過這樣力爭 期改這樣力爭我們增加了好不容易增加66億這對嘉義市非常重要嘉義市的預算規模只有200億元在今年之前都只有180 190到今年度喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13718.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13743.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
才超過兩百億 兩百零三結果你 咚 六十九億我好不容易爭取到六十六你砍了六十九你怎麼這樣對得起嘉義市民嘉義絕對不會不會比一百一十四年度少三種錢加起來一定不減少你現在 你去寫你現在算過來算過來 看過來 預算書你的預算書就八月送過來的預算書還有你們修的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13744.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
13766.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
中央對直轄市跟各縣市的補助辦法你現在砍了這69啊就是說預算書上面總預算書你不要說謊好不好不是不是你現在總預算書上面跟預算書的資金就29億了嘛而且金額我跟你講更要不得了你知道69億不是只有金額大喔項目是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
13769.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
13792.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
窮不能窮小孩嘛 苦不能苦小孩你砍的是家意事小孩子營養有差的錢學校教室的水電費還有防蚵治水 清衣的錢不是啦 那不是要砍啦 那是要讓他用小便所要調整不是 我們保證不減少結果就減少嘛 對不對不是 只是還沒有那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
13793.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
13801.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
還沒有 要我們要均衡財政均衡那筆錢還沒分配出去分配出去以後加益絕對不會減少 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
13803.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
13831.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
六個縣市統籌款都增加現在是我們這樣力爭的六十六億可以幫家醫師做太多事情了可是我剛剛一直在強調兩百億規模的小而美的家醫師六十六億可以做很多事情結果你現場去砍六十九是太過分了啦砍了三分之一好 那你現在今天要承諾第一個我現在為什麼叫財政部長來 財政部長 等一下因為其實你已經講得很清楚了齁再提書面資料給張委員 好不好先快 我大概一分鐘做個結論啦我要一分鐘做個結論財政部現在說行政院有新版嘛 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
13832.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
13850.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
你新版如果回到舊的還有昨天總裁自己講啦他一個人都可以解決所以我明確的要求這個砍得太離譜了這69億不能砍啦而且他都是法定的義務支出喔很多都是延續 我剛才說過的你叫黃龍治水清你你叫嘉義市不要清嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
13853.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
13870.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
營養午餐的錢 你就對得起小孩子嗎張委員 我們時間到了這個張委員 他所不了解的地方再請副主席長提供資料給他因為有一些資訊是不清楚的來 謝謝等一下 財政部長問一下你的試算表 道歉沒拿出來家醫師的試算表怎麼把69億補回來這個我會繼續追 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
13873.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
13897.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
好 謝謝我們張委員最嚴重的是不能夠砍這麼多而且都是一個聯繫性跟法定的支持我們把詳細的資料確實的資料提供給張委員好 謝謝張委員接下來我們請顏寬恆委員顏寬恆委員顏寬恆委員不在場下一位我們請葉元之委員葉元之委員葉元之委員不在場 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
13900.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
13928.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
今日登記發言委員均已詢答完畢本次會議作如下決議一 說明及詢答完畢二 委員質詢未及答覆或請補充資訊請相關部會於一周內以書面答覆委員另要求期限者重新鎖定三 委員黃珊珊 楊瓊英 顏寬恆所提書面質詢列入記錄刊登公報並請相關部會以書面答覆四 財政收支劃分法部分條文修正草案等七案另則其繼續審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
13929.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
13948.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
五 国家金融安定基金设置及管理条例第四条及第五条条文修正草案等两案令则其继续审查本日会议议程已进行完毕还有不在场委员补题书面质询一并列入记录刊登公报并请议事人员协助处理现在宣布散会 |