| IVOD_ID |
17105 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17105 |
| 日期 |
2025-12-08 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-19-15 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第15次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
15 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第15次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-12-08T08:31:42+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-12-08T12:05:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
03:33:18 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/16eb79f0bb3b77dbac324107c9b9b84ea3e12858f6389dbbb4456b5c46cbb78ce1a47f9d147be5f75ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-12-08T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：審查：
一、本院委員謝衣鳯等16人擬具「農民退休儲金條例第七條條文修正草案」案。
二、本院委員郭國文等17人擬具「農民退休儲金條例第七條條文修正草案」案。
三、本院委員蔡易餘等20人擬具「農民退休儲金條例第二條及第七條條文修正草案」案。
四、本院委員陳亭妃等19人擬具「農民退休儲金條例第二條及第七條條文修正草案」案。
(第四案如未接獲院會交付審查之議事處來文，則不予審查) (詢答及處理)
【12月8日及10日二天一次會】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:31:42 - 12:05:00 |
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331.294 |
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由 Amara.org 社群提供的字幕 |
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547.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
547.978 |
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MING PAO CANADA // MING PAO TORONTO |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1545.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1546.278 |
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由 Amara.org 社群提供的字幕 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1918.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1928.858 |
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謝謝請祖密報告出席人數報告委員會出席委員10人已足法定人數現在開會進行報告事項請宣讀上次會議事錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1931.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1958.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
第11屆第4會期經紀委員會第14次全體委員會議事錄時間114年12月3日星期三9時至11時55分 地點黃樓101會議室初期委員林黛嬅等14人 列席委員賴慧媛等21人 列席人員農業部常務次長杜文珍等 主席楊召集委員瓊英 報告事項 宣讀上次會議事錄 決定 確定 討論事項 審查1本院委員林益錦等22人擬拒 動務保護法部分條文修正草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1959.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1988.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
討論事項合併詢答 委員郭益晴 呂益玲及楊瓊英說明提案要職 農業部常務次長杜文珍報告後 委員林黛娃等18人提出質詢 均由農業部常務次長杜文珍等即席答覆根據發言委員除不在場者外 其餘均與發言完畢 詢答結束委員張志倫 邱志偉及吳佩奕所提書面質詢列入記錄刊登公報書面質詢和未及答覆部分 請相關單位於一週內書面答覆並複製本會 委員另有要求期限者從即鎖定 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1989.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
2009.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
2.本院委員劉建國等16人 委員徐巧欣等17人 委員李昆成等22人 委員廖先祥等19人 委員郭益勤等16人 委員羅廷偉等18人 委員林思明等18人 委員洪孟凱等16人 委員蘇巧慧等17人 委員吳七明等17人委員陳定非等16人及台灣民眾黨黨團分別擬據動物保護法部分條件修正草案等12案 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
2010.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
2027.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
3 本院委員呂毅寧等16人 委員張志倫等16人 委員葉元之等17人 分別擬據動物保護法第10條條文修正草案等3案4 本院委員呂毅寧等16人 委員楊瓊瑩等21人 委員張宏祿等17人 委員郭玉琴等16人 分別擬據動物保護法第25條及第25條之1條文修正草案等4案 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
2028.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
2054.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
5.本院委員葉元之等17人及台灣民眾黨黨團擬拒動物保護法第25條之二條文修正草案等二案6.本院委員林戴化等21人擬拒動物保護法第14條之一第14條之二及第30條條文修正草案7.本院委員鄭天才等16人擬拒動物保護法第2條及第10條條文修正草案8.本院委員陳廷飛等18人擬拒動物保護法第5條第20條及第25條條文修正草案9.本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬拒 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2056.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2079.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
動物保護法第2條及第5條條文修正草案10.本院委員葉元之等17人委員郭玉璟等20人分別擬具動物保護法增訂第14條之3條文草案等2案11.本院委員葉元之等17人委員吳佩義等16人分別擬具動物保護法第25條條文修正草案等2案12.本院委員游皓等23人擬具動物保護法第25條之1條文修正草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2079.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2106.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
13.本院委員吳佩儀等17人拟據《東部保護法》第22條之4條人修正草案14.本院委員戴瑞榮等17人拟據《東部保護法》第2條及第6條之2條人修正草案15.本院委員鄭振田等19人拟據《東部保護法》第32條條人修正草案16.本院委員羅志強等16人拟據《東部保護法》第23條條人修正草案17.本院委員郭玉琴等19人拟據《東部保護法》第25條之2及第33條之2條人修正草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2107.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2122.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
18 本院委員邱若驊 等16人 拟據《動物保護法》第25條之2 第33條之2及第33條之3 條文修正查案19 本院委員賴瑞榮 等16人 拟據《動物保護法》第3條及第5條 條文修正查案決議 審查結束 令定期記憶審查 散會 宣讀完畢謝謝 我們繼續進行討論事項 請一併宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2131.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2150.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
討論事項 審查一 本院委員謝依鳳等16人 委員郭國文等17人 分別擬據 農民退休儲金條例第7條條件修正草案等二案二 本院委員蔡玉等20人 委員陳金飛等19人 分別擬據 農民退休儲金條例第2條第7條條件修正草案等二案 先讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2154.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2178.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
我們現在介紹我們的官員不好意思這個禮拜六禮拜天都是我們聲音用量最多所以禮拜一都要讓大家聽我這個難聽的聲音所以我想我就簡單謝謝我們的陳居濟部長謝謝帶領我們所有農業部的同仁們還有國家發展委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2179.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2206.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
我们的人力发展处专门委员沈志勋沈专委还有财政部专委吴秀林吴专委然后劳动部我们的农民保险组我们的组长温秀珠温组长还有主计处我们的公务预算处专门委员吴明修吴专委还有发务部的参事廖江县廖参事谢谢我们谢谢邱颖委员谢谢 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2208.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2229.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
還有我們的劉建國委員謝謝那本日議程所列討論事項為農民退休儲金條例第二條及第七條條文修正草案共計有四個委員提案的版本那我們現在請農業部陳俊基部長就委員提案進行報告謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2239.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2259.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
主席 各位委員今天奉邀參加大院經濟委員會審查農業退休儲金條例第二條及第七條的一個修正草案那以下就本部現在目前執行農民退休儲金的一個現況及針對第二條第七條修正草案本部的一個想法跟看法提供參考農民退休儲金是我們農業 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2268.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2291.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
農民福利制度裡面一個非常重要的一環那過去我們農民大概65歲以後就會領取老農津貼那對於說像其他的老保之類的退休以後並沒有任何其他的保障因此我們在110年的時候就開辦了農民退休一個儲金制度那這個儲金制度最主要是希望說 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2292.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2305.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
我們的農民在65歲退休以後除了老農津貼以外他還能夠針對他就是在退休之前所提領的相關的這些金額然後有得到一個更多的一個保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2306.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2327.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
那整個的農民退休儲金的設計是根據農民的提繳比例從1%到10%然後由政府對等的提撥如果說農民提撥10%政府對等提撥10%那相關的這些金額都存在相關的一個個人專戶等到65歲以後就可以能夠提領 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2329.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2350.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
那這一次委員提案修正的重點大概分為兩個部分第一個部分是有關於第二條的部分那第二條的部分相對單純是將我們農業部本身在112年之前的一個機關頭銜行政院農業委員會修正為農業部那第七條的部分大概有四個委員兩種類別 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2353.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2361.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
第一個就是謝鳳委員及郭國文委員所提的修正草案那整個修正草案最主要的精神是 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2362.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2387.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
主管機關依農民提繳的農民退休儲金按月提繳相同的金額修正為按月提繳1.5倍的金額這是謝議委員跟郭委員所提的提案那另外蔡議員跟陳廷輝委員所提的版本是將農民及主管機關共同提繳的金額合併計算為總提繳金額在這個總提繳金額之下由主管機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2389.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2406.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
提拨60%然后农民自缴40%的一个比例分担那这样的一个理由最主要是基于其他社会保险制度相关的一个平衡性的状态之下来调整他的一个分担的比例那经本部针对为参加 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2407.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2422.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
曾經做過一些問卷那基本上問卷大部分的農民現在沒有提繳最主要是因為經濟的負擔的關係並不是因為未來能夠領得更多所以我想我們在後續有做了一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2423.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2442.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
相關的延期跟財務規劃那第一個部分就是現行的部分是農民10%然後政府10%那這樣的一個情況之下政府支出大概每年31就是31億元然後由謝委員跟郭委員的版本是提高政府提交的比例 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2443.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2457.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
那變成農民提繳10%的時候那政府就提繳15%那換言之整個的最後的一個提繳每個月提繳的總額會增加大概5%那政府的財政支出大概會增加了15.5億 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2459.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2488.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
那蔡委員跟陳委員的版本是調整農民的跟政府負擔的比例那由農民提繳40%然後政府提繳60%所以換句話說在總額5118塊不變的情況之下那農民負擔了2287然後政府負擔了3431那在這樣的一個情況之下保障不變的情況之下那政府的支出大概是增加了6點 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2488.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2488.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
2億元 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2491.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2519.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
那我們如果比照現行的部分看他如果他提繳年資超過30年的時候的一個比較那如果以現行的辦法10%跟10%的話那未來退休的時候可以一個月可以領38479元那相對的以謝委員跟郭委員的版本的話那因為政府提撥的比例增加5%所以未來30年以後他的 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2519.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2541.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
他的每個月可以領取大概45,431元那依蔡委員跟陳委員的版本的部分因為政府提供比例增加那總額不變保障不變也是38,479那最主要的是30年以後那相對的農民是少繳了326,444元 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2544.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2557.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
那整個的一個說明在這邊表可以呈現那在這邊也是跟各委員講就是說以現在的勞工退休同樣是30年的話大概是33095塊他每個月領是33095塊所以我們認為就是說在這樣的一個前提之下如果說 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2564.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2583.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
以谢委员跟郭委员的版本的话未来农民每个月可以领四万五千四百三十一在横平性上面来讲是有相当大的一个差异所以我们在这边还是建议就是用原来的保障的额度去做一些试算所以整个 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2584.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2607.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
四大農民福利體系裡面現在其實已經相當完備了那我們也會積極的去宣導讓更多的年輕人能夠加入農民退休儲金那未來我們也會用更精準的一個行銷的宣導的一個手法那希望說能夠讓更多的農民在退休以後有更多的一個保障那同樣的就是在這次修正的第二條的部分我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2608.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2622.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
跟法律都沒有相關的一個競合問題我們都表示尊重那第7條的部分也許等一下可以開放委員來討論那我想我們的立場就是希望保障不變的情況之下讓農民少繳一點 以上報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2625.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2640.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
谢谢我们请部长你就坐在原位就好了你不用再回那个对因为部长那个可能腰闪到了所以我们就请你就坐在原位后来接受我们的那个备询然后 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2641.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2664.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
有關本次會議各部會所提的書面報告請委員自行參閱並刊登公報那本日議程討論事項合併巡打委員諮詢前依照往例做以下的宣告每位委員發言時間本會委員五分鐘必要時延長兩分鐘非本會委員四分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2665.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2673.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
上午10点30分截止发言登记但是我请教一下我们部长我们现在版本什么时候可以进来 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2675.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2698.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
我跟委員報告現在的版本大概在行政院已經都確認了而且我也跟院長做了報告那現在就是等待行政院的院會通過以後就能夠送到立法院那大概預計什麼時候那因為行政院院會在排案子的時候因為現在有非常多的案子在排然後我們也一直期待就是能夠盡快的把它排入 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2699.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2720.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
部長我們今天會排這個案子就希望我們行政院趕快把我們的版本我想我也會就是跟行政院報告說因為委員版本已經開始在討論了希望都能夠盡快的所以我們今天我們不去做處理我們會再等我們行政院版本進來所以要快否則我就不等你們了解了解謝謝委員謝謝部長我們請第一位請邱什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2725.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2744.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
後來我們楊瓊英委員來囉我們來確定議事錄我們的議事錄有無錯誤會好利有無錯誤沒有沒有我們先做確定我們現在請第一位邱英委員發言謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2751.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2778.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
謝謝主席部長您可以坐著回答沒關係你再把椅子往前拉至少我可以看得到您的臉對所以你就坐著就好了你就不要一直坐下起來你就一直坐著就好那個椅子可以幫部長把它往上提高一點嗎可以喔好因為這樣子我才能看得到您的臉好謝謝部長您就一直坐著就好了那個麥克風至少有沒有手 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2779.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2784.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
那個手拿的麥克風手持的麥克風給這樣可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2790.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2813.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
好部長這個還是要保重齁 這個您是農業最重要的支柱啊還是要請您要多保重來部長我們今天討論一下這個農退儲金制度齁老實講這個從我們當時110年通過開始實施到現在其實在經濟委員會裡頭已經不止一次來請教您喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2814.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2824.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
整體的這個農退儲金的覆蓋率到現在其實相對還是偏低這個實際的我們現在的農民有資格的農民大概是22.3萬實際參與的人數大概是9.2萬這個覆蓋率差不多41% |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2831.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2859.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
但是青農的覆蓋率只有24%更低 24%那我們也多次在討論到底為什麼青農不願意加入這個農退儲金是因為誘因不夠嗎還是他們覺得擔心這個資金被卡死還是他認為其實我現在可能還用不到這個還要等到65歲以後那或許他有參加其他的這些儲金制度他有參加其他的保險你們到底有沒有去總 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2861.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2875.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
總納規劃一下或者是說在跟這些青農座談的時候有沒有去了解一下為什麼他們不願意來加入所謂的農退儲金有沒有做過這樣的資料分析我們也做過了一些問卷那特別是青農的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2875.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2900.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
那有兩個最重要的原因第一個原因就是說他們剛剛進到這個農業的職場的時候其實收入不是那麼穩定所以收入不是那麼穩定的時候他們每一個月繳的部分還有貸款的部分所以他們對於那個繳的那個壓力比較大倒是對於後面的這個保障他們比較沒有因為那是幾十年以後的事情他們比較沒有那麼在意 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2901.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2916.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
如果是說他們對於要繳的金額跟誘因所以部長如果是這樣我們今天有幾位委員提出來的版本大概就是我們希望能夠做一些結構上的調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2916.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2935.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
比如說農業部採取百分之40或者是農民60或者是農業部60 農民40我們現在是50 50政府就是相對提撥如果把政府提撥的比例再提高一些農民只要負擔40 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2937.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2962.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
這個是不是也是行政院研議的方向我想這個我們有很多的委員大概是這個方向去進行包括這個我們的主席跟蔡議員還有本席我們大概都希望往這個方向去推動行政院到底你們的方向是什麼我跟委員說明就是其實農業部在規劃跟行政院報告的時候也是用這樣的一個方式就是從政府原來跟農民的提撥對等的提撥變成 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2963.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2971.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
政府提拨多一点大概是60左右然后农民大概是40左右让农民在每个月提小的时候减少一些负担保障不便 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2972.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2997.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
好 如果是提交 如果是這個方向基本上本席也會支持啦另外一個就是說有沒有可能把這個有參加農退儲金的這一些列為我們在未來 譬如說他們申請農機啦或者是肥料啦補助上面的加分門檻其實也是創造創造你要申請這一些補助我其實要看你有沒有加入農退儲金 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2999.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3020.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
也是創造一個誘因啦有沒有有沒有想過可以做這樣的 我想謝謝委員的一個建議我覺得是一個很好的方法我們過去很多補助的話沒有做做串聯啦就是我們有一些農業的施政的一些提供一些補助的部分跟可能跟政策可能要對接所以像你剛才講的就是說如果參加農民退休除菌的時候他的 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3021.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3038.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
整個的一個補助的比例或是可以做某個程度的調整的話可以增加他們的優因這個我們會來思考如果是這樣部長我希望行政院這個能夠趕快你們的院會能夠趕快處理因為這件事情我們已經談很久了 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3039.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3053.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
包括立法院要求農業部趕緊送版本出來到現在還卡在行政院裡頭剛剛主席也特別問了到底行政院什麼時候要送今天排審這個案子其實也是要給你們一點壓力如果行政院院版不趕快送上來的話這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3055.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3077.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
這個老農今天的討論 退休儲金的討論還是遙遙無期 沒有落實的一天我想這件事情可能要請農業部能夠加緊那我知道我們今天的質詢我想行政院院長應該也聽得到如果可以的話是不是能夠在這個禮拜四排入行政院院會趕緊把行政院的版本送進來讓行政院的版本可以跟委員的版本併案做討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3079.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3094.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
部長另外我想要再跟您討論一個老農津貼排富的問題這件事情其實我想相對也是困擾你們這個排富的門檻民國100年的標準到現在已經10多年沒有調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3095.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3117.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
那這十多年來這個土地的地價飛漲但是排富的標準一直維持在十幾年前你相對來講對於這些老農來說他的生活環境並沒有改善但是不過因為公告地價的上漲而造成他達到了這個所謂帳面上超過500萬這樣的一個門檻 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3120.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3145.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
這個東西其實對老農來說 他是看得到吃不到啦他不過就是因為土地價值的增值可是他土地沒有賣 他其實也沒有任何收入的增加但是我們的排富條款定在那裡 它是一個死的東西造成很多的農民因為排富條款而沒有辦法領老農津貼所以這個我們也提出了提案的修法我也想知道到底農業部的看法是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3145.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3173.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
我跟委員報告 事實上在那個老農經貼的部分其實我們跟退休族群都已經跟院長報告過了那特別針對排富的部分因為我們過去在額度上面都會4年跟著CPI調可是其他的完全沒有去調整所以這一次我們在設計上面也會根據那個地價的增幅的部分 CLV的部分因為它從100年到現在已經增加了將近70%大概67%左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3174.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3199.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
所以我們會一併做這樣的一個思考然後特別是對農民所擁有的房屋我一直認為農民擁有的房屋是他一輩子努力的他跟其他的民眾是不一樣所以我們在這裡也做了一些放寬跟排富的那個有大幅的一個放寬那這個部分我想我也希望說院裡面能夠盡快的進到院會以後我們就可以送到立法院來 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3199.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3217.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
那這個部分的進度現在在哪裡在你們農業部嗎還是已經送到行政院兩個都已經送到行政院去了但是因為行政院在考量不只是那個老農境電還有其他的社福基金所以這個部分我們盡量說那個老農境電是不是先走啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3217.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3238.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
是 因為這個農民其實是最弱勢的很多對農民來講土地價格飆漲公告地價的漲其實不是老農願意的那因為這個漲幅過高漲幅太高了而且我們十幾年沒有調整反而造成它被排富排掉這個對老農來講真是情何以堪所以部長我也期許 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3240.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3263.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
這兩個案子是不是都能夠去加速希望能夠去督促我們的行政院是不是這個禮拜可以趕快送進院會排入行政院院會然後把他送出送到立法院來我會再跟行政院報告看可不可以有沒有辦法爭取到排入院會OK好謝謝好謝謝委員謝謝謝謝邱瑩委員謝謝部長我們現在請林黛華委員質詢謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3301.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3326.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
來 我們有請部長這個部長您說您真的是叫農業部的部長嗎本席從你對於您自己的結論這第一點跟第二點叫做自我打臉你說要建構四大農民福利體系完備農民社會經濟安全為農業部重要的施政之一好 等等等最後一句話與其他行業人員退休後享有相當的生活水準保障這是第一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3327.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3337.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
第二點你要講提高就是在批評我們立法院的制度我們所有的委員說提高政府的容退租金提交比例將影響職業間的橫貧性且對其他行業的退休制度會有連帶效應 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3345.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3371.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
這個不是自我打臉嗎你不是說要保障我們的農民退休跟其他的農業的其他的行業要有一定的生活水準現在說好了我們提高了政府提高6我們這個降到農民降到4然後你就說喔不對喔一個月農民領到4萬多將近5萬這會影響職業間的和平性這不是自我打臉的一個結論嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3373.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3378.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
第二點你對於我們在來我直接進入到本席的 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3382.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3402.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
這個質詢 青龍不敢提 老龍不講家就是你現在的容退制度的問題你的制度在哪 農民卻不在這裡面這個制度你們很清楚喔我們的農民 農保大概85萬人 未滿65歲的符合容退的 也就現在講儲金的你85萬的農保當中符合容退的才22萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3404.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3415.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
好這22萬到今年3月底前曾經參加過融退的也不過11萬也就是22萬有融保的有參加過融退的才11萬然後呢如果我這11萬扣掉現在還真正在繳的 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3419.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3437.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
就9萬扣掉已經65歲正在請領的現在才9萬所以實質覆蓋率這9萬佔22萬大概覆蓋率就四成出頭而已我們立法院預算中心也提醒你囉在去年9月的時候龍退提繳人口只佔我的龍退就是現在講的這個龍退提繳的只佔龍寶未滿 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3439.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3456.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
65歲的被保人的27.63%好 我們念茲在今的輕農20到29歲的青年的提撥率更是在這個農退當中是只有24也就是這個數字告訴我們什麼農民 真正的農民不在這裡面輕農不敢提 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3457.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3482.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
老人老農不想加這就是你們公開承認的現況你們講的很好聽四大保險四大福利三保一金所謂的安全網但是就是要讓什麼農民不再看天吃飯老農放心離農你要親農願意從農攤開來看你這四大福利123農保確實是有提高最後一項有關農退的這部分你們還停在自願參加 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3484.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3500.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
提提越久領越多的口號那真的有真的這樣子吸引人嗎真的有真的提越多領越久自動加入的有增加嗎沒有嘛所以你自己的調查也很清楚啊收入不穩經濟負擔重不確定撐不撐到65歲 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3506.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3520.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
這就是農民的悲哀呀很多早年投保勞保這個我們農民啊他農保的資格是相當高的所以他不得已他只要加入農保我加入農保的時候我又要 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3521.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3527.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
又不敢放棄年金有人還甚至以為農退我加入這個退休儲金我會影響到老農今天這都過去在今年5月的時候本席就提出來的一個現況所以你的制度跟現實生活是對不起來的所以你秦部長你不要再講了 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3538.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3554.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
說我們這個農退這個覆蓋力比勞退的志願提腳還高來安慰自己你總是不能比爛說我們比爛的少一點你應該是將所謂號稱的完整的安全網中間的那一塊破網給它補起來那個破網是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3557.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3576.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
就是一大堆農民尤其是青農尤其在加保在農保當中實際務農的人他沒有辦法來領你的領你的這個農退儲金啊這才是重點啊你要保證的是真正務農又在農保當中但是他又沒有辦法去 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3577.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3604.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
去加入你的農業這個儲金的部分所以我們立法院提案從1比1到6比4政府要多扛一點所以這邊你的報告就是您的最後一句話農民退休金如果高到每月4萬5萬擔心職業橫貧性所以現階段尚無調整規劃這個很凸顯你你根本就不把農業當作一個產業我們現在在高科技業當中進足的是什麼進足的是那個技術嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3606.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3629.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
進逐的是那個國際競爭那個佈局嗎半導體競爭的就是人才人才人才人才才是讓這個半導體護國神山永續佈局全球讓台灣立於不敗之地的重要的原因人才為什麼那個台積電為什麼那些退休的人才大家一定要挖角會影響整個台積電的營運 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3631.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3636.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
人才才是重點啦 所以今天我要農業你說你要農業的自給力提高你要農業的自給力提高 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3641.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3664.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
從容人口在哪裡老的都一直退了然後年輕的投來進來他看不到65歲你要叫我那個退休的這個儲金要領到65歲才讓我看得到中間在今年5月我就提醒了你的容退當你的同退當中一定要有兩點設計嘛第一個你要跟你的補助瓜公我加入容退的我所有的今天我的 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3664.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3684.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
肥料的補助增加我的人才的補助增加我的我申請的農業機具的補助增加你要有我說我參加農隊我有這些這些保障嘛再來你不要一直逼到65歲啊你中間啊好啊這個因為我的市場變化我實在沒有辦法從農了或者我種種的原因我必須離農了 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3685.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3703.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
我當中我必須我不用撐到六十歲你給我退休的退出融退啊那你政府的部分看是我要百分百還給你但本席主張就還給你這個百分之十就好了也不要說通通都還給你們因為你要補助你要支持我們的農業人才嘛這兩點 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3705.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3728.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
從頭到尾你的今天主席再次的排入就是知道對農民的這個保障不足嘛結果你的結語講了那麼多結語等於叫廢話連篇哪有保障我們農民哪有把農業的人才當作是我們提高農業自給率的重要重中之重沒有啊好所以本席的立場很簡單 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3729.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3757.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
政府應該負擔提高到6成 農民4成是最低標準不要說這個叫多送福利這個是讓同樣的退休標準的目標在農民收入不穩的前提之下先把每個月的壓力降到到他們扛得住的階段第二個對45歲以下的青農要不一樣的加碼也就是說6比4如果是40歲以下的青農那你可能就要提高了喔可能是6乘5喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3758.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3776.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
或者是6乘5比3乘5這才是對40歲以下的青農他願意30歲就投入35歲就投入到65歲他看得到未來啊所以你也口頭講青農前期的投資大家庭負擔重實際上去要叫他跟一般農民只有6比4政府6農民4我認為這個應該還要再提高 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3780.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3807.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
所以如果真的把青農當作重點產業投資你看到富國神山怎麼在投資人才怎麼在保護人才你就來把青農當作我們這個產業的富國神山在補助重點投資的人才 青農啊所以政府你要讓願意早點進場的人看到退休賬戶長成什麼樣子而不是只聽到有就好啦 能提多少算多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3808.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3836.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
再來你們說農業部的財政疑慮根本就是謬論你以每月提撥2840元政府負擔60%2840乘以60%每個月你們政府每個人每人每月提才繳1704本席還很認真的看你這個級距到底有沒有很高啊結果你在農保生育商帳農職災農業保險上為單一農民付出的成本差不多啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3837.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3863.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
我哪有他管根本也不是什麼天文數字差別在於這筆錢是帳上看得到的退休金它不是一次性的津貼部長要搞清楚啊所以今天我自問兩個是非題第一個你行政院要修法如果你今天在修法修進來版本叫做一比一政府一我農民一我告訴你不用拿進來你就不要拿進來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3865.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3881.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
不要來這邊製造我們大家草野一起難得的有共識全力拋紅你農業部這個就是唯一藍綠所有草野有共識不是草野是所有各黨派有共識的你如果還是一筆難清你不要拿進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3882.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3908.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
你至少要調到6比4嘛我們委員的版本是政府要6那個農民的部分是4你好歹也講一個5比5不要再說1比不是5比5就是至少你要講一個有增加的版本嘛要把你送起來幹嘛所以這第一個你要很明確的回答本席第二個40歲以下的青農設計不同於一般農民的加碼比例那你怎麼看好 回答 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3910.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3929.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
謝謝委員我剛才其實在報告已經說了我們農業部支持40跟60這樣比例在保障保障不便的情況之下政府多負擔一點就是政府撥大概60農民負擔40這樣的方式而且我們用這種方式送到行政院也經過行政院院長同意只是 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3930.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3946.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
差在還沒進到院會進到院會以後就會送到立委院那非常好您現在很明確的講行政院版本是支持立法院的版本政府勞退在退除金的部分你願意是政府是6民眾是民眾是負擔4 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3947.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3963.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
確定是這樣嗎 對然後保障不便的部分第二個部分就是40歲以下的親友我們會來設計另外一個就是說他參加農退除菌以後我們的其他的補助的方案可以做一些比例的提高這個會比他因為他 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3964.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3985.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
初期在從事農業的時候需要一些資金需要一些農機具的一些協助所以你是願意放在補助提高在40歲以下而不願意放到說你的補助相關的補助項目只要你願意參加農退的我都所有的補助都可以加我們可以設計不同的階梯的方式所以你不願意在40歲以下輕農在政府的比例再提高 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3987.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4007.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
我想這個必須要去討論喔因為整個的一個退休的年限的部分如果你送進來的親農沒有提高比例我本席我是不會接受的因為你沒有把他你從20讓你講好啦你30歲啦你不要說20歲啦你30歲到65歲35年欸你退休你要想到當時的通貨膨脹欸一個月4萬5那時候的通貨膨脹不過是現在可能才3萬多的水準欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4017.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4045.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
所以你現在沒有提高你青榮怎麼會加入而且你還要讓他 我本身也很在意喔你的條款沒有補助的沒有針對40歲以下的青榮你沒有政府比例增加你沒有在補助商當中的掛鉤以及彈性的機制讓他退場你沒有彈性機制讓他退場那這個是真的就是我一投進去我就鎖在裡面那不可能有增加讓他進入到榮退的一個誘因嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4046.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4072.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
所以部長你願意再試試一下再評估一下嗎我想我們可以來評估絕對可以來評估用一個最好的方式能夠讓我們的年輕人從容比較穩定這個是我想我們應該要去做的啦好那這邊補助掛鉤彈性退場這是部長你這邊的承諾補助掛鉤彈性退場是讓我彈性退場這個東西都我們都還要再討論不是我在這邊承諾沒有承諾所以好好那這種東西你也不要送進來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4073.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4088.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
你不要送錢 因為你現在就是 我一加入融退我市場變化太大了我的榮民的不穩 你剛才講 我剛才講到第一頁 再看一次你的第一頁是什麼 我的第一頁是什麼直接講明的 你的放到第一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4090.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4118.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
這是你們講的 我一字不漏再說一次收入不穩 經濟負擔重不確定撐不撐到65歲你沒有讓他在65歲之前有一個可以退的機制你若辦得好 這個農業收入增加然後這個儲金再加上他的勞保或者是他的這個榮保讓他覺得一個月可以到這個4萬4萬5你沒有讓他看到這個未來他為什麼要投入啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4119.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4135.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
那如果你看到他未來你那個中途的結算機制就是也不會用到這個農退途徑是在65歲以後才去設計的所以說他如果65歲之前他如果提前離開了職場但是65歲他照樣可以領啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4137.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4163.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
對 可是那中間他已經離開了啊那怎麼辦但是65歲以後他到65歲他就可以開始領了啊對 那我如果說我30歲我投入我45歲離開那我的保險還是掛在我又是掛在這個融退喔那我可不可以參加其他的一個保險機制可以啊 可以啊喔 好 來來來是可以啊好 來來 那我們來講清楚那我現在在我直接跳到這一個好了來跳到 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4165.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4186.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
我現在是榮保 榮保親農的黑洞 這句話榮保親農的黑洞 同樣在田裡流汗 誰被排除在制度內我們還有一個更大的破洞 也就是你刻意沒碰的現在有一群人白天在田裡工作 保的卻是榮保勞退 保的是勞保勞退你估算自耕農76.1萬 我大概有9.5萬是電農 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4189.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4192.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
再加上實質務農長期投保勞保的親農有4萬所以也就是說農村的真正勞動力自電農再加上農保的親農這樣總共有13.5萬這個部分您也提過好我右邊的這個叫做農傳媒你們說過部長你也提過要思考農保農退雙軌制 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4219.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4237.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
讓頭寶 榮寶的自營農民在上位勤領他說他現在還在叫榮寶的人他也可以他現在在已經還有領有勞寶的人他也可以來參加榮退這句話講得很好聽但是目前為止你有沒有規劃我們已經有規劃了有規劃 失稱標是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4239.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4258.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
我們有規劃就是讓從事勞保的人他投勞保但是他實際從事農業的部分我們可以讓他取得農退儲金的一個資格好那這有在你的行政院版本裡面通過嗎對 我們已經跟行政院報告過這個部分我們也有建議了 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4259.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4287.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
好那這邊我具體也提到就是說那你們要盤點勞保勞退裡面實際從農的人數投保薪資及育孤老年給付不要再用育孤有多少人的這種模糊說法勞工勞動部有來謝謝喔謝謝不好意思主席你的勞動部不要這次在清查的時候你說那個是假農民假勞工假勞工中農民那你就是把他註記起來就好你要不要不要給我處罰農業部在哪勞動部在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4290.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4315.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
請勞動部如果你真的就本席所講的這個數字4萬多的這個投保勞保而實質務農的有4萬多人然後第二個你們的這個轉軌設計轉軌設計的這個方案也希望你們盡快的送到你的法災修是一回事但是你的專案轉軌的部分你要 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4317.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4344.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
趕快的提到本院來然後如何讓這件事情當作勞退的減壓而不新的負擔所以今天我只問一句話同樣在田裡流汗有人在老農津貼家農退雙重寶藏有人老了只剩下農 勞退這一條路甚至一條路都沒有因為自耕農跟電農是沒有雇主的這不是農民的選擇是制度的選擇如果在行政院版本當中你沒有把這一批人所謂的農 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4346.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4360.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
勞保 親農這個部分 資格人工電能沒有雇主的部分你沒有在修法當中放入的話 那這一群人就是被你農業部放生了好 謝謝 時間到了謝謝我們林戴華委員的諮詢 謝謝部長 謝謝我們請那個戴華麻煩一下我們下一位請陳寧菲委員諮詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4380.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4405.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
谢谢主席我们请部长就请陈部长谢谢部长我想今天不论是劳退除金或是我们的劳农津贴其实我们已经讲很久了从去年一直催催催催到今天那为什么在你们院板还没送进来我要先拍我们要逼着你啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4406.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4419.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
明明你在多久以前就已經說你們已經送到院會了我們很早就送到行政院去了那為什麼一直沒出我們的行政院送到立法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4420.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4443.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
我覺得我們現在的執政會有一個盲點我們明明要做的 我們都不阿沙裡去做然後每一次都讓我們的農民還有相關的一些權利者等又等 忘又忘然後三催四起 我們的版本才出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4445.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4471.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
這是不對的我們這個早就定調啦我們農民退休儲金本來我們就要幫忙我們能夠更多的農民加入我們這個行列當中就是要有誘因嘛當時候我們蔡英文總統跟我們農業部去推這個農民儲金退休儲金就是這個方向嘛可是因為誘因不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4472.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4488.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
所以加入這個退休儲金條例的制度的人非常的少所以我們才去檢討要怎麼樣能夠加強誘因這個去年就有共識啦是那為什麼拖到現在還沒出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4489.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4514.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
所以部長我覺得剛剛如果版本有出來其實就會解釋到大家很多的疑慮包括說我們到底現在政府要提撥多少現在是6比4嘛大概我們的方向是政府60%我們提出來的版本跟立法院報告的版本是60比40對嘛 60比40政府負擔多一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4515.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4540.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
对啊 政府负担多一点不再是像过去一比一嘛而且你今天出来之后我有详细听你刚刚的报告也就是说我们同样有这样的一个保障然后我们农民少缴少缴一点 对对 少缴可是他得到的跟现在他们所得到的保障是一样的对 保障一样少缴一点对嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4540.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4565.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
所以如果我们版本早一点出来就没有这么多的疑虑然后还有我们一直在强调的我们怎么让青农愿意有幼婴可以加入到我们这个制度里面就是我们把老保跟农保可能有用了一个不一样的制度来做调和也就是说当他自己在职场当中 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4566.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4588.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
他想要回到我們農民制度的當中他可以把勞保跟農保能做一個共同計算然後如果這當中他萬一自己又想回到到了農保之後又想回到勞工職場他又可以回到勞保這個調和板我們到底現在是怎麼做 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4589.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4609.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
我也跟委員報告除了剛才所提到的6比4以外我們針對這些自營的這些參加勞保的這些工作者他實際是從事那個農業的部分那這個部分我們也提出了相關的方案就是同意讓他加入農退贖金雖然說他沒有農保他只有勞保 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4609.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4632.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
那过去不行现在我们希望说开这条路让他能够从事而且这部分的人也不少而且是相关大概是三十几岁的那些主力非常多就是我们的青龙这就是我们的青龙所以在这个我们政府的这个政策你要很清楚讲给大家听 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4633.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4656.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
讓我們的青農認為說我本身現在有勞保制度我想用的是勞保可是我現在一樣可以進到當我也是從事農民的相關作業我是可以加入我們的這個退休儲金對不對這也是我們在歷史跟青農座談的時候他們提出來的一個建議所以我們也把它 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4657.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4685.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
也把它設計了一個方法大概大概有4萬多人這4萬多人應該可以讓他加入我們的農退儲金那一次座談之後我們跟青農提到這一點其實青農都很接受他覺得這樣對他們來講是有另外一個保障是也不會是說我現在從事農保然後我要加入了我現在從事勞保我要加入我們農業的相關這些退休儲金是沒有辦法的 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4686.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4706.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
如果有調和之後他們又多了一個選擇是他們更容易把這樣的一個銜接做好所以這個很重要所以為什麼我說在這一次我們要逼著我們行政院趕快把版本送出來就是這個原因了解所以部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4707.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4716.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
我今天不會排審本來我要排審等待你們進來但是你們沒有所以我今天不會排審等到你願凡進來我12月22號繼續排審 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4721.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4737.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
两个礼拜的时间够了我想我会跟行政院尽量的沟通看看可不可以尽早的进到院会因为版本已经都没有问题了是他什么时候排进院会只要他这个礼拜排进院会那基本上我们下个礼拜我们都不复议 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4738.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4762.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
這個沒有人會提富裕很快就進到12月22號納入我們這一次的討論12月22號部長我先跟你提醒然後再來有一點也就是我們老農津貼的排富這個也是一樣我們從過去一直提一直提我們已經太久沒處理了多久了 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4763.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4790.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
我们老农今年的牌付相关的从100年开始都没有调我们只调额度额度4年调一次对嘛以我们的整个调整用CBI的部分去做调整嘛对不对可是你知道吗很多人都不知道呢我觉得你们没有去做宣传很多人都说为什么我们老农的福利今天并没有调整有啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4792.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4820.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
它是每年它是四年一次依照我們的CPI去做調整對不對所以你這個要對外講到最近還有農民來跟我們說我們老農好像是三等國民為什麼我們都沒有增加我們的津貼有啊之前我們修過一次法了嘛就每四年調整一次那是不是四年太久了 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4822.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4844.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
我們是不是要再從這個四年再去做思考我覺得應該是要做這樣子我們現在已經調整了可是農民的感覺還是無感所以就表示這四年是太久了所以我們是不是應該再把這四年的一個檢討期再縮短這個拜託我們的部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4844.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4871.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
再思考一下我跟委員報告我們到立法院到行政院的版本裡面也考慮到這一點過去四年調一次那如果這幾年在這個之間如果那個CPI變動很大的時候等四年太久了所以我們有設計在中間大概兩年的時候它超過CPI超過某個門檻就啟動這個調整但是四年還是不變那第二個部分是排富的部分就像委員所說的排富的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4871.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4888.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
根据那个COV就是地价的那个方公告土地限值的部分我们过去从100年到现在已经累积了大概百分之六十几快70了所以我们也一并会调整牌付的部分跟个人所得的部分都会一并来调整那这个就什么时候送进来 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4888.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4918.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
我們同樣的也是在行政院都在行政院那因為老農福利津貼是由衛福部是由這個衛環委員會做主審所以這個部分我們希望這個部分應該要同步送進來我跟委員報告就是行政院當初在考量這個的時候就是因為考到其他的八大社福但是我們也一直強調可不可以讓老農津貼先走 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4919.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4934.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
因为鸟笼今天太久没调整了太久没调整所以其实我们都有提版本从我们这个CPI是不是要调整机制对这个希望CPI一年或 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4934.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4960.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
平均成长率超过3%的时候就要做调整这是停飞的提案嘛就是说在调整期制当中虽然现在四年可是太久了人民无感所以我们要求一年或一次在CPI平均成长率超过3%你就要调整还有我们排富的条款就是农业所得以外的所得总额超过60万 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4961.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4988.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
就要去做這個處理還有個人所有土地及房屋價值900萬還有沒有農舍者個人所有唯一且有用於居住的房屋可額外扣除700萬這是停飛的提案所以我們拜託我們的行政院版本要符合民意要進帥提出這個部分再拜託部長會 我們會來努力好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
5001.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5029.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
我們現在請鄭天才委員質詢主席部長已經上來了謝謝部長好今天這個審查我們農民退休處境條例 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5030.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5049.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
這個在我們農業部的一個報告裡面還特別提到擴大農業保險讓農民不再看天吃飯這樣的一個建立農民退休儲金事實上 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5050.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5076.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
如果我們從這幾年雖然農民退休除菌已經開始失事了但是農民還是要看天吃飯從相關的丹納斯颱風到花架沙尤其是馬太安溪淹涉浮潰壩一流 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5077.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5102.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
造成光復鄉鳳林鎮還有這個望榮鄉這麼大的一個損害這個都是除了家戶之外的農民也做了很大的損害所以還是要看天吃飯那我們看今天的農民退休儲金條例大家都很關心農業部 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5105.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5132.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
這個已經擬了這個農民退休儲金條例相關的條文包括第7條的修正送到行政院請問一下這個部長什麼時候送到行政院的其實在去年的時候就不斷的在院裡面討論也跟院長報告我至少跟院長報告了三次然後最後一個定案的版本是在今年的8月的時候送到 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5133.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5145.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
送到行政院去今年8月送到行政院所以之前是內部溝通不是不斷的因為有一些內容不斷的討論不斷的討論對這個事實上是要跟相關的部會然後這個政務委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5156.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5176.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
對 我也跟委員報告其實院長蠻重視這一塊的所以我們當初的很多設計院長都覺得說都應該再放寬所以很多東西包括農民退休儲金或者是老農津貼的時候所以我們在設計這個東西的時候其實已經考慮到農民的一些因素 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5177.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5203.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
很多事一定要强化有的法律还真的是要修正甚至法律名称都应该要改现在还有你的法律跟你主管业务有关的还写暂行条例知道吗对嘛已经几十年还暂行条例对不对所以这个部分都要改了所以这个部分要去继续加油 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5204.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5207.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
好我们看这个这个上次 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5208.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5223.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
我也在跟這個農業部這邊請農業部來去加強先導那有關原住民農民參加農退儲金的在112年是5.7%的經過你們的加強先導之後這個有提高了現在有8%這個是在今年4月的一個數字 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5238.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5262.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
雖然是這樣有提高了但是比例還是相當的需要加強所以還是要請農業部這邊透過農會的系統我想跟委員報告我們後續會跟原民會一起來去勾結針對原民參加農保的部分這樣的話比較能夠精準的去做一些宣導 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5264.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5285.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
好 談到這個部分因為剛才也提到了這個花蓮光復這次馬太安溪淹社府潰壩一流的這些當然這個都是農田不限於原住民非原住民更多更多所以這個農民 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5286.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5313.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
退休儲金他本來有繳他是不是還有能力繼續繳這個部分你也請這個農業部能夠並以去了解去協助因為他們的農保已經我們補助他六個月職債保險也是一樣就是他六個月可以免繳那個農保的部分我知道我剛剛是講那個退休儲金的部分看怎麼樣有怎麼樣協助當然很重要的就是你們 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5314.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5338.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
接下來的這些你看這個是房子旁邊的農田佛祖街附近的都這麼高一直到現在現在還這麼高所以這個部分讓農民如何去耕種沒有辦法耕種所以這個部分要去 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5339.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5347.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
什麼時候要把它清除啊那個部長我跟委員報告現在被淹的大概有7我沒有記錯的話大概774公頃 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5349.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5378.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
那774公頃鳳林的部分有一部分然後光復有一部分然後真正的重災區就是土煙超過50公分以上的那我們有一部分可能就是直接看看有沒有醫院就是做照林的方式然後50公分以下的直接翻耕然後我們有個輔導團會去協助他轉做一些其他的作物部長這個當然是要那個方向是要進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5379.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5407.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
我是說只有政府機關才有辦法挖走要把這個土挖走啊這個我來讓部長回憶一下紀連城總協調官 政務委員在10月20號開過協調會特別提到這個農地的垃圾的清潤還有農地土砂的處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5408.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5432.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
都是要由農業部來去處理這個要進行我們已經在進行農地的垃圾清運時序在做農地土砂的處理的部分剛才說的就是50公分以下的我們現在做翻耕翻耕我們已經有一個輔導團去協助說翻耕以後是不是要做一些土壤改良這個已經在做了比較重災的就是50公分以上大概218公頃 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5433.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5460.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
那這218公頃的話因為它腹土太高了然後看看有沒有辦法農地重劃那這個我們也已經發了問卷部長你剛剛都講過了重複了對我們都做問卷先解決這個好不好先解決這個要不要先把它搬走啊沒有這個我跟委員報告這個土完全不可能全部搬走啦因為全部搬走至少五年而且搬了以後不是部長你自己看嘛它那麼高啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5461.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5480.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
對 所以我們才會說不同的深度的時候我們有不同的處理的方法那有些地方可以農地重劃農地重劃的時候我們也問了開始做問卷如果願意農地重劃的話這個都可以打平就是不挖但是它土地的那個土砂的高度會變高 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5482.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5505.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
好 這個部分 因為時間的關係再請你們負責業務的我想我們的進度隨時跟委員報告因為我們一直不斷的跟居民做溝通你們這個是農田水利署嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5506.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5521.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
我們有一個團隊然後這個屠殺的部分是農田水利署就請你們那個團隊跟我討論一下好謝謝謝謝 謝謝我們鄭天才委員的質詢我們請鄭正前委員 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5534.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5560.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
謝謝主席我想請農業部陳部長部長好部長好也謝謝主席今天特別安排了農民退休儲金條例的一個修法那我在想說因為我們一定是希望能夠完善整個台灣的一個農業的一個大環境所以事實上我們在上個會期的時候其實也針對農民退休儲金的部分有過一個討論那我在想說因為現在就是農民就是來 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5561.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5577.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
提繳這樣子的一個農民退休儲金的一個比例不夠高我們希望能夠提高所以也希望說能夠那個提繳的一個比例能夠比方說用現在1比1的方式變成比方說40 60的方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5577.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5591.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
本席也參與這樣一個連署那重點就是我們希望能夠讓整個覆蓋率能夠提高針對這部分可不可以請部長表示一下我們如果從50 50提高到40 60的部分您是不是支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5592.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5615.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
我跟你們報告現在委員的版本大概有兩種一種就是說總額提高就是1比1變成1比1.5那另外一個方式是保障不變然後政府出多一點然後農民出少一點我們農業部的立場是希望說保障不變然後農民少出一點政府多出一點就是6比4的方式因為現在目前 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5616.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5639.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
我們也問過問卷了以後就是農民現在初期經營不確定性很高所以角度少一點的話對他們來講是有利的所以說目前比方說部長這邊或院門這邊其實是用四十六十的方式六四的部分來做那個方案規劃對OK那我想說這部分都沒問題我們只要能夠提高整個一個覆蓋率來說的時候我覺得就是值得支持的一個方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5640.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5664.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
那我今天想特別跟部長這邊請教其實有關於智慧農業的一個部分因為近年來因為整個農村人口的老化跟人力的一個短缺那無人機的一個使用其實變得有一點點的重要那麼我在想說目前整個農業部這邊當然也推出了一個無人機農藥帶噴制度我想部長應該對這部分是熟悉的 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5664.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5684.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
那我想說無人機要合法能夠來做一個帶噴的部分大概需要有幾個條件第一個他必須要是法人然後第二他必須要有雙證書包括民航局的無人機高級專業操作證還有農業部的農藥帶噴技術人員證書我想請教一下部長到目前為止我們農業部這邊所發出來的農藥帶噴人員執照總共有多少量 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5696.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5707.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
這個詳細的數字可能我會有再提供給你應該是六七百人左右OK 不只啦部長我簡單跟你講到113年底的時候大概就有2285人取得農業部的一個農業帶分技術人員證書可是真正同時是法人5606人這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5716.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5722.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
我要講的狀態是506人他是取得雙證書所以我剛問的是農業部這邊發出來的證照因為他必須取得雙證書然後還必須要有法人登記所以506這個部分其實是符合這三個條件的時候能夠去執行業務的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5736.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5758.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
那我想他的比例都是不夠高的所以我們希望說這個部分要怎麼樣子能夠提高這樣子的一個比例讓整個智慧農業的部分尤其無人機的部分能夠真正往下走那我想請教一下部長因為在這個整個在推這樣子的一個無人機的 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5759.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5781.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
那個農業發展這邊的時候針對農藥噴灑無人機的部分有一個很大的狀態是RTK的一個系統那我會請教部長為什麼RTK這個即時動態的定位服務系統它從110年就已經完工了 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5782.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5795.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
就是農業部這邊在推這部已經完工到113年6月份的時候取得了整個資訊平台的認證可是到目前已經超過一年了這個服務還沒有辦法提供出來請問到底是為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5796.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5823.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
我跟委員報告因為RTK在定位的時候因為它定位到公分級的部分所以相關的就是資安的部分分兩個一個是數位資安一個是國防的安全所以相關的這些所謂的機場附近的怎麼樣的做屏蔽那這個部分我們在今年的10月31號才完成所有的資安場域的認證所謂的資安場域認證就是說哪一些是可以飛的哪一些是不可以飛的 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5823.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5851.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
那这样的话以后用RTK才有用第二个部分就是我们RTK的部分大概在12月17号在今年12月17号会对业者做说明然后说明完了以后我们在说明完了以后应该在明年初就可以开始接受业者的登记所以今年12月17号会开始对业者说明明年1月1号开始能够开始让业者去登记明年初的时候就可以开始明年初大概什么时候 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5851.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5867.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
就是要看業者的說明然後給他們登記然後相關的因為他簽得到很多相關的資訊他們也要接收器理解 那這個東西因為推得有一點久了那我想請教一下我們RTK精準定位服務管理辦法是不是同時會配套出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5869.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5885.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
應該相關的遊戲規則會做出來這也是我困擾的因為RTK是當年我在農事所當所長的時候推動的可是發現推了以後它是很精準的定位可是管理單位現在就是經營主體就變得很困擾我 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5886.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5911.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
因為以國家的立場來講其實RTK不只是農業部用其他的無人機都可以使用所以我們也曾經花了一段時間跟內政部去做溝通看有沒有辦法把它整合在一起部長因為這個部分我想說對於整個我們智慧農業的發展其實很重要的一環那我想說無人機這個相關用在農用這邊的時候我覺得肯定也是一個我們要去積極去推的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5911.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5940.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
那這個部分竟然一開始當時是你這邊推的我們就希望能夠盡速把它完善出來好不好讓它真正能夠用我了解然後剛才特別委員所提到的2000多人裡面只有506人是可以其中有一個蠻重要的是我們當初是限定到法人啊是那法人變得有點類似要靠行所以我準備把這個法人這個部分把它解開要把它解開來嗎就是你如果說有創證照然後你有相關的這些機制都符合規定的話其實自然人應該也可以啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5941.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5960.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
這個我想我們內部還在討論我希望把它解開那我們希望這部分能夠盡速把它給落實然後能夠推動出來我們希望能夠對整個台灣的一個整體農業有所幫助那我接下來我想問一個狀態就是有關於廚餘的一個問題因為現在我們就確定就是從後年1月1號開始的時候所有的廚餘禁用對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5963.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5980.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
部長那我覺得這個部分我就考慮到一個狀態第一個是當時配合我們農業部的一個政策讓廚餘加熱這個事情配合的一個廠商或者是一些養豬戶對他們來講現在對他們來講會不會是一個處罰 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5982.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
6002.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
因為他們當時配合可能也投入了資金去增加一些投資現在政策轉了一個彎之後的時候反而對他們來說造成一些處罰農業部這邊要怎麼去做因為本席其實支持就是除以不要再去養這個政策我某個部分我是支持的可是對於這之前的一個狀態配合這樣的政策的那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
6005.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
6026.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
農戶或者是企業來說我們要怎麼去處理後面的部分我跟委員報告就是說在這一年的過渡期我們提供了轉型非常高的誘因就是每一頭豬我們給他3600然後衛視的設備規模大小從30萬到300萬所以一個大廠的話大概可以得到補助大概將近上千萬以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
6026.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6044.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
理解這是講說接下來狀態我講說之前比方說配合我們政策去做很多的一個真主設備投入的這些廠商另外共同你講的是共同真主中心共同真主中心我們現在會協助它以後變成廚餘的飼料化的一個工廠或者是能源化的一個工廠 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6045.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6064.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
那這個部分因為現在目前只有全順苗栗的全順一家唯一一家對我們現在會協助他因為未來以後的植物性的料源或者是禽類的下腳料他也可以在那邊做整組變成飼料所以這個部分我想我們也會積極還有我們會引導一些私人公司跟他合作OK |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6066.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6083.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
部長沒有問題 我想說這個部分其實是因為我們政策轉換之後我們勢必要去面對的問題那我現在我想特別去了解一個部分我們農業部跟環境部這邊有沒有去做溝通因為當我們之前的廚餘的時候有相當大的量都用在我們的一個養豬這邊的一個把它給 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6085.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6102.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
使用掉的時候 當我們現在整個政策不行用的時候那按照農業部的一個估計我們每天有將近兩千噸的一個廚餘處理一公噸的廚餘大概需要五千塊到八千塊不等的預算那我們現在這個部分的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6103.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6117.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
我們接下來如果全面禁止廚餘的時候那我們農業部估算大概需要花補助養豬戶多少的飼料錢每年大概要多少然後環境部跟地方政府要花多少錢來處理這個廚餘 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6119.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6141.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
我跟委員報告大概我們做飼料加紗補貼大概一頭是一個月是600塊600塊大概是600塊的部分所以我們從10月開始一直會補助到年底嘛那補助到年底的話完了以後我們的轉型期我們繼續補助6個月就是3600塊讓他能夠順利的去做一個轉型之後呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6142.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6170.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
沒有 當你轉型的話你就開始就沒有了嘛那我想說環境部接下來的時候要來怎麼樣處理廚餘這個部分我覺得它很重要那我們也希望農業部跟環境部這邊能夠做很好的溝通然後請部長這邊了解環境部這邊後續的一個做法再跟本辦公室做一個報告我們一直在討論沒有問題這個我想我們也可以請邀請環境部一起跟您到您那邊做一些說明OK 好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6172.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6181.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
好 謝謝鄭振琴委員質詢我們現在請呂玉琳委員質詢部長你不用客氣你不用起起落落對謝謝主席謝謝主席 請陳部長請部長委員好部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6196.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6222.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
農民是我們國家糧食安全跟農村永續的發展的基礎所以我們也擴大對農民生活上的保障也做了很多的努力包括挖農老農津貼還有現在我們正要修法的農民的退休儲金的部分這就希望說他們有更多更好的保障也是鼓勵我們農民 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6223.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6248.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
大家都來從事我們農事工作但是農民的退休儲金它這覆蓋率也好大家投保的也比較少這一部分也針對我們今天希望說如何來提高一些誘因鼓勵大家來投農民的退休儲金剛剛聽到部長你講是六四來提撥是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6249.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6262.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
是 我第一個跟委員說明現在的覆蓋率你這邊計算的可能有點錯誤因為48萬就業人口裡面有非常多的65歲以上不好意思 不是我錯誤是你們給我的資料是這樣子的 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6263.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6273.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
好 那沒問題 你修正我們現在目前就是因為以勞保來講85萬人然後65歲我們扣掉那現在覆蓋率是多少將近差不多50有到50因為實際65歲以下有真正的從事農業的部分大概是22萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6284.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6310.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
好 那如果覆蓋率有這麼高的話我們也是非常高興我們還是要努力啦還是要努力啦還有努力的空間嘛對 特別是青農的部分比較低青年農民的部分比較低那為什麼青農會比較低你知道這原因嗎因為青年農民本身他剛進入這個職場他的收入不穩定而且他有非常多的貸款所以我們也做過問卷他們覺得說這樣的一個角對他們來講負擔比較大所以我們才會去設計就是說讓他 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6311.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6339.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
负担少一点政府负担多一点在保障不变的情况之下去做这样的设计这还有另外一个问题那很多人从本来是老保的中年转型到了我们来农民做农业农物的工作所以他不希望浪费这个他们农保的这个年资能够继续的老保的那个年资所以他希望继续有老保那所以老保的人要怎么样去参与我们的 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6340.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6368.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
農民的這個退休儲積這個方面有沒有辦法雙管齊下我想我們在歷次的跟青農座談裡面也發現到這一點就是說有一些他不願意放棄他勞保資格因為他已經繳了一段時間了但是他又真正的實際從事農業的部分所以這個部分大概有4萬多人所以我們也一直希望說在這個部分設計一個方案讓這些參與勞保的人但是又有實際耕作的農民 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6369.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6399.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
能够参加农民退休储金所以这个部长都有了解所以可以让他们一起参加其实也不是说他们没有从事劳保工作劳工的工作他们有两份工作有些工作是一些工作是责任制的所以他可以从事两项的工作所以可以给他们多一点鼓励像我们的农民的退休储金就是多一点鼓励保障他们的生活这样子的话他们会更多人来投入我们的农事工作好不好这个也要注意 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6399.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6419.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
還有一點就是說因為剛剛特別提到有老農年金老農年金的話他們一個月大概可以領八千一百一十塊錢那所以他很多人想說我就有這個部分了我就不需要再來投這個老農這個退休儲金了所以這一點的話我們要再怎麼樣去宣傳去鼓勵他們呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6420.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6441.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
這個就像LEGO在堆疊一樣我們最底層是農民退休儲金然後你如果那個老農津貼然後你如果說現在開始從事農業你有存一點錢的話退休的話所得更有保障這個部分我想我們會更努力的來做一個宣導所以提撥的他們可以領雙重更多對 未來可以領得更多比老農津貼還多 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6442.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6453.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
就趕快把這個案子定案來我們招委也在排這個案子 希望能夠來做審查找這個草案修正通過 好不好那接下來本席要問的就是廚餘的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6454.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6483.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
剛剛大家都有提到廚餘的問題那現在最重要廚餘的部分的話現在從2025年到2026年我們循序漸進先讓家戶的家庭的廚餘先來退場然後再事業的廚餘嘛 是不是那剛剛有提到部長有提到說現在補助這個黑毛豬的部分2025年 今年的話一頭是3600元請問明年一頭是多少錢不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6487.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6504.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
轉型的時候我們由廚餘變成飼料的時候我們給他每一頭3600塊大概半年的飼料費另外我給他一些餵食系統因為飼料有另外的餵食系統從30萬到300萬根據他不同的規模因為我的資料裡面有看到說2026年如果說 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6506.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6529.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
他們在轉型當中他們一投注之後補助1800塊是不是沒有 那個是明年的1月1號才來舉手說他要轉型的我們就希望說因為明年1月1號開始你就要徵主嘛你要徵主才能夠高溫徵主對 那你如果說這個時候開始我們就希望說他在年底之前能夠說他願意轉型我們會給他輔導 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6532.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6539.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
那如果說最慢到明年的1月1號1月1號才決定 才決定的話現在已經12月幾號了到明年的1月1號 你的轉學時間太快了吧你就把3600塊變成1800塊 對 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6547.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6564.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
因為不是因為這個時間太急迫性了沒有因為1月1號開始他如果繼續用廚餘他就必須要符合增主設備三個條件所以在那個時間點他要嘛就是飼料要嘛就是廚餘那要廚餘的話他也許可以到年底來申請 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6565.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6592.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
部長因為你們2027年就全面禁止廚餘對不對所以現在已經12月了到明年2026年不到一個月的時間我認為你們循序漸進裡面要多給他們一點緩衝的時間所以到明年本席的建議還是維持一頭豬是3600塊他們一樣是高溫會去珍珠慢慢的循序退場因為這個廚餘部分在我們的家庭廚餘 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6594.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6620.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
這個大概一個月有1385公噸那置業廚餘的話大概760公噸那這個這樣加起來就2000多公噸你現在的廚餘的話你沒有這個能源化跟堆肥化你沒有這個設置的這個設備的話全部丟到焚化爐去焚燒你全部去焚化爐焚燒焚化爐能夠承受嗎這些等等都是問題所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6622.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6640.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
本席在這邊建議部長我們一定要完整的因應跟所有的配套我們要把這個所有的升值中心或者是說我們的高速這個堆肥的這個處理中心通通都要把它建置好來才可以承受這個處理的部分好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6641.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6661.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
我跟委員報告當初在設計就有階低式的補助最主要就是因為我們一年以後完全禁止了所以這些猶豫期不要太長你如果變成飼料的話我們盡量的去協助你猶豫期不到一個月對啊現在已經12月幾號了沒有所以我們階低式的1月1號明年1月1號以後是1800 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6662.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6686.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
所以現在我說你的1800太快速了是不是在做研議還有就是廚藝的部分因為主席站起來還有廚藝的部分家庭的廚藝的話是比較多的你可以請他們快點來處理這個清潔隊或者是收這個廚藝的部分能處理但事業廚藝我昨天在碰到餐廳事業廚藝裡面他們就有提到說 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6687.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6706.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
他們的廚藝現在是有人去跟他收買來運送但是未來的話他們的私藝廚藝的話誰去幫他運送誰去處理直接就增加這個費用啊環境部會負責找那個以種的清潔業者去收 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6707.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6722.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
這個費用的話是清潔業者環境部補助清潔業者嗎未來是地方政府必須要負責的地方政府是負責的很多餐廳不知道這些也都必須要做宣傳所以整套的過程這個部分環境部他有 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6723.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6743.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
農業部一定能夠循序漸進的包括就是廚藝的處理跟我們家庭跟我們的事業的廚藝都要看怎麼去處理配套都要完整還有我們的設備也要到位來處理這些廚藝廚藝也可以變成我們的經濟跟環境的這個循環的這個很重要的部分最重要的 拜託 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6745.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6751.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
黑毛豬的養豬戶穩住他們的生計我們會成立一個輔導團隊不要讓台灣未來都沒有黑毛豬了會 我們會成立一個輔導團隊一起來努力讓這個產業 積極的跟他們溝通好不好會好 謝謝好 謝謝謝謝李玉玲委員質詢謝謝部長我們現在那個陳昌明委員質詢完我們休息五分鐘我們請謝一鋒委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6780.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6788.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
好謝謝主席不好意思我腰閃到部長我想請問一下這個農民退休儲金條例其實我上會期就已經有你說這會期要送這個會期會送進來對啊什麼時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6804.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6824.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
我跟委員報告其實我們跟行政院都已經報告完了現在就等到安排院會以後就可以送進來了大概什麼時候你總要跟我們一個我們盡可能的跟行政院溝通剛才趙委有講說看看這個禮拜可不可以進去我們會盡最大的努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6825.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6848.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
現在覆蓋率只有50那你提出你的版本你規劃說未來覆蓋率可以到達多少我們如果從現在參與的年齡層來講輕農的部分就是剛進到農業職場大概5年到10年這段人他的覆蓋率最低的才20幾而已所以我們希望說減輕他的負擔這樣的話他們就有機會來繳這個錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6851.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6860.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
那相對的提高比例是1.5嗎沒有我們保證不變那個保障不變就是委員您提的是正午 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6861.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6884.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
提拨的多一点农民继续缴原来的可是我们问了农民就是说他现在的钱就缴不出来了他不在乎最后的保障是提高的因为最后的保障其实是30年后特别是20几年后他们是希望现在能够少缴一点所以我们根据这个部分保障不变所以你们是希望就是说让农民少缴一点对 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6884.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6893.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
然後政府多繳一點所以你們用比例對 本來是10 10嘛就是20%裡面然後政府繳8%政府繳12%然後農民繳8%這樣的話繳的比較少他們就願意 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6899.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6915.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
所以是你們用比例的就是問題就對了對對用這樣的方式然後那能夠提高的覆蓋率是多少我們希望至少能夠再提高個10%以上然後60%剛才包括委員之前也一直在提醒的就是說如果農民退出儲金 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6917.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6944.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
加了农民退休儲金我的其他的政策补助是可以加码的话那这样的话更有诱因啊特别是他们需要一些贷款或者是他们需要一些农机具的补助如果你有农民退休儲金的话我可能提高了3% 5%可以让他们的退休儲金当做一个就是说等于担保品吗是不是不是就是你如果参与农民退休儲金我的补助可以加码 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6945.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6960.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
這樣的話他們就有誘因因為他們要來申請補助嘛像農機的補助對不對其他的補助那你有參加退休儲金就可以多個5%那這樣的話也是一種誘因啦我們希望說通過這樣的方式來提高他們的誘因 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6960.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6988.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
好 那希望競速題來委員會好不好那因為這個是相關的那個大家都在意的問題那是不是請農業部就這個部分緊述那再來就是說廚餘現在就是說在廢棄法裡面認為是一般廢棄物對不對那可是如果要比照日本的Eco-Food那樣的模式 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6989.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
7007.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
你就是變成是環保飼料那是不是要改變廚餘在廢青法裡面的這個認定的我跟委員報告就是在廢青法這邊弄的是一個生廚餘的部分那未來如果說廚餘經過加工以後變成飼料 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
7009.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
7025.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
那就是一個飼料的一個產品它不會是一個廢棄物了所以我們未來是朝向像日本就是說它是把一些食品的下繳料還有其他事業的一些下繳料廢棄物它變成飼料以後它就脫離了廢棄化的管轄 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
7026.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7044.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
對那所以有辦法嗎你們有提出嗎這個應該就沒問題了變成飼料就不屬於廢青法管理那這個部分就是說那個環境部有同意嗎因為這個廢青法我們一起在努力因為因為廢青法是環境部嘛對不對因為這個東西涉及到兩個部門 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7045.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7065.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
我知道那因为这个厨余的处理一直都在环境部那所以你们禁用厨余的这个问题那牵涉到台湾的所有的厨余未来要怎么样去化那现在这个问题到底有没有解决在行政院会你们有没有解决 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7067.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7096.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
環境部已經規劃完整的一個去化方式然後在明年年底的時候因為它有一部分會進到焚化爐那焚化爐如果參雜廚餘大概10%的話對於焚化爐是沒有影響的所以他們用這種方式來處理還有包括能源化還有飼料化的部分所以廚餘就是一個廢棄物當你廢棄物變成能源化的話那相關的像黑水蒙那如果變成一個飼料的話那就是飼料化 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7096.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7113.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
那這個部分如果都處理完還不夠的話就進到焚化爐去焚燒他們大概有這樣的一個規劃還有就是還有就是剛才大家提到的就是你廚餘的這個就是廚餘養豬這個要全面禁止 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7115.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7131.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
對於飼料的補貼我剛才看到了你那個飼料補貼為什麼從就是說現在開始接受飼料補貼的轉變成飼料的是3600那明年的才1800嘛對不對我看到你美頭是這樣子你這樣子有辦法讓他們轉成飼料嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7135.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7151.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
我們設計這樣就是希望他們提早來轉你想要他快點轉嗎快點轉的時候我們的輔導團隊特別是黑毛豬的輔導團隊我們會來協助這邊然後我們也試算了一些用我們的黑毛豬的配方 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7152.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7173.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
的部分其實它的成本會高一點但是後面我們會推動黑毛豬的這些品牌讓它消費市場的價格價值也高一點的話大概能夠平衡他們的一個收入我們豬肉出口咧我們豬肉現在出口怎樣豬肉的出口目前就是會等到我們加工的部分是可以啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7174.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7189.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
非洲豬胃如果再一次的那個加熱的豬肉產品是可以出口的但是生鮮的話現在是不行要經過再去跟那個WHO去申請為非裔去以後才可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7189.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7217.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
就是再等三個月嘛是不是對 至少三個月啦好 那我們彰化的那個什麼西湖的冷鏈啊那個後面畜牧師師長那時候有去啊對我們冷鏈那個是不是能夠協助我們彰化的因為其實你要做冷鏈就是希望說肉品的加工或者是外銷或者是販賣能夠有就是有提高它的利用性我跟文明報告就是肉品市場附設的這個加工廠 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7218.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7237.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
過去都是農業部來協助的我想我們後續也會再來協助對啊我們是不是能夠來協助提高這些肉品的市場 銷售市場好不好用冷鏈的部分我們會來支持的好不好好好好謝謝謝謝謝一鋒委員質詢謝謝部長我們現在請陳昌明委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7249.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7273.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
主席好现在有请陈部长请陈部长陈局员辛苦你向我们的召委明年才要请县长现在声音就沙哑了要好好保重身体坚持到最后部长你笑了你的闪耀也要保重自己你是下乡闪耀还是打高额球闪耀呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7273.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7292.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
我不會打高爾夫球我不會打高爾夫球下一張搶腰啦好 我了解那剛剛有談到池液的問題你談到飼料有補貼但是池液裡面變成有機肥料好像沒有補貼因為那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7294.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7303.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
環境部說 原料來源不明 很多種混雜其實池域裡面可以做很多很好的有機肥料這個有沒有辦法突破 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7305.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7323.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
我跟委員報告就是用廚餘去做成肥料的時候最大的一個困擾就是因為廚餘的料源它的成分不穩定那成分不穩定做成飼料的時候他可能還要再添加因為飼料是一個規格品所以最大的問題是有沒有辦法規格化 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7325.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7354.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
你飼料如果有機肥料你也可以檢查出來我是提供一個idea其實我聽他們很多人講這個有機肥料非常有效環境部不敢認定我覺得以臺灣的生物科技你有機肥料一定能檢查出來嘛你要只要要檢查非洲豬你看它的裡面有沒有含那種細菌在裡面嘛不要環境部一講你們就萎縮了其實通常有機肥料比飼料還要 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7356.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7381.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
重要而且銷售的時候比較不會有困難了解我我我謝謝委員的提醒就是有機就是廚藝變成堆肥的部分那那個部分我們來推廣那我們不會不會說因為裡面可能是不是要檢查什麼非洲豬瘟病毒因為他不是在非洲豬瘟的傳播鏈裡面所以這個部分最重要是他的品規有沒有一致性這樣的話農民用的時候才可以用 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7381.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7408.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
這方面再精進一下了解一定有辦法去分析出來的感謝多元的用途大家的壓力才不會那麼大而且選擇高單價了解這永遠是在競爭裡面生物科技的一環今天我們主要是農民退休執政條例我記得上個會期謝議員委員就有召開了對不對你說要版本趕快送過來我說下個會期就這個會期 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7410.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7429.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
上個會期 上個會期我說下個會期會送進來這下個會期現在快要結束了還沒有啊 1月31號還在拍拚但是這裡面我說啊 現在選舉時間政治很敏感郭國文是台南市長候選人 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7433.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7458.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
那個先用你彰化縣縣長候選人我們的陳田輝召委您台南市市長候選人我們的蔡義儀是你嘉義縣縣長候選人還有一個臨時通案我們的楊瓊威委員是台中市你候選人現在你問題大 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7460.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7475.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
所以你老生選到這個選舉你這招就做了不要讓大家痛苦開始都在唱了那我今天請你報告你說要政府吃多農民吃少你建議的剛好農民吃40% |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7478.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7506.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
政府吃60% 兩個都是綠色的你選擇他當初我記得上個會期你跟我挨不能增加多少我現在就大放開了那這邊我們不是要參選市長 縣長我們提30到70最公正百姓吃30 政府吃70這樣好不好所以你心機很重我跟委員報告我在上個會期的時候就提出來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7507.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7527.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
那時候委員的版本都還沒有 我就提出來說是不是可以用一個保障不變的之下 比例可以做調整我們現在在代理的版本 現在出來 你看這競選到我厲害了我跟他說 你現在這個時候 給大家去搶不要說這幾個人功勞 他們會拿出來不會啊 我想我們在做這個設計 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7531.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7556.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
你這樣一次來4.6到時候變成3.7還是其他調整比例先想好啊明年先幾年啊 官位要保得住啊這個你說你不會啦你一定很公平我們是用專業的角度去設計一個包括財政的問題啦趕快送出來快要結束了 要委員提出來你才有行政版本才要進來你要比委員的版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7558.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7562.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
行政院要比委員的版本早一點送進來這個心機很深 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7566.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7588.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
我告訴你 不是我能夠控制的 這個在行政院卡住啦另外 馬上你會遇到排富條款這幾年我一直在想一下 土壤存款每一年綜合所得不得超過50萬第二個 個人土地及房屋價格不得超過500萬我怕得太慌 你不怕得太 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7591.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7609.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
現在地價上漲公告的限值也在上漲你不趕快改這裡管理局長的候選人一定會被頭一條迷你雜錐把你踢出來我跟委員報告你覺得要改嗎 我記得楊清雄我們幾個選舉委員會的人一直反映這個問題我跟委員報告你都要等到選舉年要踢出來沒有提早動作動機不成正 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7621.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7628.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
那個老農經貸大概三個部分 額度的部分一個是所得的部分 一個是財產的部分的的排付 那這個排付我們都已經設計好了 我們從 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7642.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7660.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
去年十月多一直到今年的三四月的時候都跟院長報告八月的時候最後一次報告已經送到縣政院去的你趕快提出來 我們要提出來不然功勞都是那些選舉人 你看都在這個時候出來 把他踢出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7662.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7691.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
法案早一點提出來啦要到明年選舉再提出來啦不會啦什麼不會就已經到了還不會你要不要改那個排污條款什麼時候提出來我們有做修正然後我們也把版本送到行政院去了我很尊重你耶你講話都很福氣耶真的我已經送到行政院去啦那要趕快拿出來不然我們走到台下好壞人人為了這樣就算了我會再跟行政院報告看看可不可以儘快 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7692.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7701.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
儘快的時候 這些人會跳下來把你農業部包圍起來吧儘早準備儘快送出來 減輕他們的負擔 謝謝好 謝謝 謝謝委員謝謝陳昌明委員質詢 謝謝謝謝部長 我們休息五分鐘 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7779.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7779.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7827.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7831.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
8028.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
8033.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
好我們來我們請楊瓊英委員質詢謝謝這個主席楊瓊英發言 邀請部長我們請部長謝謝委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
8046.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
8072.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
部長好 部長我們今天針對於我們的農民退休儲金制度的設計那在整個保障農民晚年生活的時候呢這個農民退休儲金條例第七條的分擔比例是農民跟農業部辦一個負責各自那但是我們這幾年來的成效只有四成 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
8073.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
8080.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
台北要到五十萬四十五萬而已對 那有好的制度為什麼人家不要用 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
8081.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
8102.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
也就是說制度裡面還有調整的空間制度裡面還有調整空間因此本席也提出修正條例第七條的部分也就是將前向農民及主管機關第三條第一線共同提增的金額因合併計算為提繳總額由主管機關另給10% 60%農民40%的比例來分擔你的看法呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
8109.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
8137.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
我跟委員報告就是基本上我們在送到行政院的版本也是用這樣的一個方式在保障不便的情況之下政府多出負擔一點就是百分之六十那謝謝你也是同意那你們什麼時候送來我們都已經在審了在巡打了我已經報告就是我們已經有我親自已經跟院長報告了好幾次了然後現在版本也在行政院就在行政院的院會通過以後就可以送出來什麼時候要通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
8138.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
8156.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
因為我們已經在審了你這個會期會不會送進來送進來邊緣討論這個會期我的目標就是這個會期一定要送進來不是一定要送進來我們一定要讓他通過這個我知道所以我會再跟行政院反映是不是能夠儘速的安排到院會裡面去 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
8156.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
8186.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
您所謂的禁訴我們希望可以看到落實的行動因為除菁制度的意願跟它的普及率跟保障農民的權益這是非常的重要好不容易我們的精神目標都一樣也就是把行政部門的加10% 60%農民的部分40%能夠讓我們農民真正來運用落實到政府的這個制度不要只有那個三四成現在四成多 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
8187.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
8209.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
我們希望能夠普及率 好不容易達成共識 請你一定要趕快去追出來那接下來本席要請問 也就是老農年金的問題老農年金本席也提案 現在是多少錢 牌戶的額度是多少8110 那個牌戶的部分所得是50萬然後那個自住房屋的話400萬 然後財產的話是500萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
8212.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
8238.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
對啊 財產的部分500萬本席有提案希望能夠提高到800萬我們已經附委進來了 也在討論中是那這個部長因為十部我與每一個樣態不一樣情境不一樣縣市合併之後高雄市 台南市 台中市 桃園市新北深閣都有這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
8239.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
8261.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
我們合併了之後 它的土地自然增長我的鄉親常說的都說土到家裡還沒吃我真的沒有辦法生活但是是政府的公告限值 公告地價自動提升升格為直轄市 區域改變它的樣態我完全都沒有動 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
8262.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8278.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
部長你有沒有思考到這個問題有我跟委員報告在這次我們送到行政院的版本裡面就考慮到這一點就是土地公告限制從100年開始都沒調到目前為止已經提高了64.78%所以我們在這一次的排付條款裡面我們也會 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8281.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8296.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
針對就是所謂的土地公告限制做這些調整也會把我們的所得也會把我們的財產的部分一併把它提高另外在額度上面來講現在是每四年調一次嘛對不對但是這四年中如果CPI調整得過 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8297.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8320.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
帳幅過高的時候 我們希望說有一個遊戲規則在這個4年之內 如果達到某一個啟動的條件的話我們也會來做這些額度的提升他的上限也超過的時候 我們就知道立即可以提升所以這個部分我們也送到行政院 也是要等到院會通過那剛剛好啊 你財產的部分現在是500萬嘛我們是提升到通本的部分 地價這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8322.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8343.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
從100年到現在那大概是6成多將近7成嘛所以本席提案的800萬你應該要支持啊我應該這麼講喔我們在考慮這除了都土地公庫限制的時候我特別跟行政院反映就是說其實農民辛苦了一輩子他買房子跟一般人買房子的概念是不一樣的而且這個房子不能變 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8344.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8352.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
不會不容易去電線對嘛 這是我自己在做的嘛我的真正農藝生活所需他不是用這個去賺利差嘛所以你要實際上照顧人家而且整個因為這個區域的範圍提升嘛尤其是縣市合併的直轄市啊它的落差會更大了解 這個我們都有考慮所以我們提的版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8369.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8375.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
我相信就是如果願意通過的話應該會獲得委員的支持啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8376.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8401.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
好 所以我們一個結論也就老年年輕的部分排富不管你的收入所得或者是你的財產的部分應該要依照這幾十一二十年來沒有調整比例給它調回來真正的尊重農民 照顧農民因為農民這一些財產他並不是去商業行為賺立場對 這是我們農業部的立場農業部應該要全力的 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8402.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8420.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
來照顧我們的農民我想部分藍綠白的我也跟院長報告 院長也蠻支持的好 既然支持我們就要繳成要落實來 接下來本席跟你討論非洲豬瘟的這個事情那你現在公佈全面禁止飼養豬魚的養豬那給予最長時間是一年的轉型期那你是到明年的12月31號那你現在說你有一個方案來補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8431.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8447.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
也就是前半年一個月一頭租600塊那等於是最高是3600塊是不是這樣子來接受轉型是不是如此是 這比110年在轉型的時候2400塊又足足提高了1200塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8448.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8463.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
但是我們臺灣有幾項比較特別的也就是我們的我們的蝸豬肉是全世界最有名蝸豬肉就是吃燉蒸煮熟了之後吃燉蝸豬肉最好吃是不是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8463.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8493.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
我跟委員報告黑豬分為大黑豬跟土黑豬那現在也有一些用飼料養的他的風味其實也不錯所以我們現在成立一個輔導團隊就是用我們敘事所的這些專門給黑豬的改良式的配方然後去提供他去做這些轉飼料的這些配方那這個部分他的成本也不會比一般的飼料還貴他比一般的飼料還便宜那我們會成立一個輔導團隊去協助我們的黑毛豬轉型 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8493.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8511.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
本席也就是說不管什麼樣的方式在整個轉型當中必須要透明化的讓養殖業者他非常的清楚而且是協助他而且還保護我們阿滴阿嬤的世界之冠的一個美運你們是朝這個目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8512.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8527.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
这个非常的重要所以你的专家学者怎么去做我们也希望可以看到你的美丽成果出来那最后一个议题我把这个课题给你也就是无人机的部分大家现在知道我们的农业人力不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8528.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8549.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
那在這樣的情況之下呢無人機必須AI系統派上用場可是我們碰到場域的問題有很多也沒辦法那這怎麼辦所以農業部是不是應該要去做一個跟政府橫向的一個聯繫怎麼樣讓農民可以更便捷解決他人力不足的這個困境 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8551.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8576.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
我跟委員報告就是無人機的那個飛航的場域我們大概已經在今年的10月多已經確認了所有的資安場域的安全性然後包括一些禁飛區因為在機場那個禁飛區都已經劃定了然後在12月17號我們會對業者辦說明會然後大概在明年1月初的話我們就會開放我們的RTK讓他去使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8577.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8591.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
12月就這個月的17號會開放說明會我們的基本場域在哪裡因為農民非常的善良他們也希望能夠明確告訴他們他們的作為場域範圍讓他們能夠安心的來使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8595.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8616.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
12月17號會做說明會明年初的話我們就會全面開放這個RTK讓他們來申請因為他的定位精準非常精準到幾公分避免他的林田污染必須AI的體系來協助我們的農民他們人力缺少啦以及效能都能夠提升好謝謝委員謝謝楊瓊英委員質詢謝謝部長們謝謝請邱志偉委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8647.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8649.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
好 謝謝主席 請農業部陳部長恭喜部長 謝謝委員好部長 今天針對第七條有四個委員版本 但是有兩個方向這個第一個方向是謝宏跟郭國文的版本就是提高比例 政府出資 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8676.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8703.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
增加0.5就是農民跟政府比例是1比1.5 是這樣會增加大概15.5億對那這個部分也是固然一個方式他造成的效果就是說我們是增加預算但是他每年以後假如30年之後農民可以在30年之後可以每個月大概多領比限制多領7000塊左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8705.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8729.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
如果按照限制不改的話大概30年之後大概每個月可以領3萬8如果按照這個1比1.5如果修正通過他每個月可以多領7000塊沒有錯嗎4萬545431限制多7000塊左右對好如果按照第二個方向我們調整政府跟農民的負擔比例農民市政府6就是40% 60% |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8731.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8736.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
那正午出8% 正午出12% 農民出8%不管是這個4比6或者3比73比7的話就是農民出6% 正午出14%好 以4比6這個負擔比例來看正午增加多少 6.2億 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8753.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8777.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
對 6.2億好 那你如果變成3比7的話政府出7成然後農民負擔這個3成的話大概增加10億左右嗎差不多好 差不多10億好 以這個方式來看30年之後保障還是一樣是維持這個3萬8是但是呢 這個過程中啊它每年大概可以少繳1萬到1萬5我這樣算沒有錯嗎差不多 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8780.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8801.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
我覺得這兩種方式各有利弊一方面這個農民可以有更大的誘因如果按照第二個版本比例如果農民負擔比例降低到三成政府出七成的話還每個月繳的金額很少會增加誘因那剩下22萬人有資格現在投保參加的只有11萬只有50%對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8804.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8830.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
那已經實行4年了我們目標是涵蓋力要越高越好 對不對對來保障這個農民退休的權益嘛我們現在是雙軌制除了老農今天之外這個最重要的這個農退這個部分最重要嘛所以我們要怎麼樣讓這個投保率參加的這個農民能夠增加你要定到一個目標值比如說5年之後你要提升到這個15萬 16萬甚至到7成 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8834.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8839.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
那要達到這個目標你的所用的途徑你的approach是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8841.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8866.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
我看你們好像這兩種版本這兩種方式你們都覺得好像會跟其他的這個產業跟其他的這個退休的這個體系來比較會有些不公平我不這麼認為我覺得農民是相對弱勢相對弱勢政府對他們照顧越多或者更多本來就是應該的所以你看就整體政府的預算來看 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8867.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8895.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
你如果用1比1.5 政府多出0.5 這才增加15.5億那你如果把這個農民跟政府負擔把它調整成3比7 也增加10億3比7的話 當初因為沒有加入 最主要原因是因為他的經濟負擔不起假設政府出資到七成 每個月繳的金額已經大幅降低了 他有沒有意願 他會有意願 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8897.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8913.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
所以我個人覺得啦這個不管是第一個途徑或第二個途徑我覺得這個農業部都應該要考慮的不是說以現有的這個制度就僵固化在那邊那我認為這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8915.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8940.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
今天排這個法案審查固然重要我們希望說立法院如果達成共識給農業部更大的支持我們希望說這個經費這個預算對農業部大概不是問題那我們是要說服說說服全體國人相對的弱勢是農民對農民多一點的照顧福利是應當的 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8942.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8969.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
所以我個人覺得 你如果要把這個政府提繳的比例 把1比1變成1比1.5我覺得乾脆1比21比2啦 1比2你才增加30億 對不對好 如果你要調整政府跟農民負擔比例現在4比6 我認為還太過保守 我覺得3比7 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8970.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8992.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
這樣子農民才有意願才有能力去參加這個制度我們當初這個修法我們立法通過就是為了讓這個所有農民都可以參加嘛可是14年才只有50%就代表問題出在哪裡就誘因不夠所以從這兩個方向我想請教一下陳部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8994.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
9007.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
我跟委員報告就是這兩個版本最大的差異一個是1比1.5的部分是對於未來他的退休以後的領的會比較多我了解我剛就講過了那我的重點就是說我們希望說 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
9009.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
9025.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
保障不變的話政府多繳一點我們現在初步的送到行政院的規劃是60比40但是我們會另外設計一個誘因就是說你只要參加農民退休除禁的部分的時候相對的農業的相關的補助我可以加碼 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
9025.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
9044.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
那因為現在的青農他的收入不是很穩定你講到重點了就是加碼還要加上彈性也就是說單方面的加碼你要保持一個彈性的制度比如說有重農 實際重農但是初期他無力提繳你給他一個遞延期或者農業生產他有週期 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
9045.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
9073.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
他如果欠收的時候你是不是可以讓他遞延提繳或者是這個豐年補繳不要說一欠收年他就可以遞延提繳那豐收年再補繳解決他有現金流的問題我覺得委員講這個彈性的部分我們倒是可以去設計就是說像有時候遇到天災的時候他沒辦法繳的時候我是不是可以延後繳那這個部分現在是用六個月我們現在是六個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
9074.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
9092.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
6個月補繳的方式那未來我們會看實際的狀況那我剛才講的一個重點就是退休儲金你如果參加退休儲金我所有的其他的農業的補助我可以加碼的話其實對農民是更有誘因的因為那個部分的一個加碼讓他減少的負擔會比較低一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
9094.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
9110.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
所以这两个途径我觉得应该都是你们农业部要仔细去思考而且不是说只是说说而已真的是你送到院的版本是四十六十嘛对不对就建设了这个大概是菜鱼的版本嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
9111.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
9126.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
是我們先送到行政院的話後來委員要陸陸續續所以你原先送到行政院就是40、60嘛是那我建議是不是可以再前進一點因為物價你要繳到30年30年之後他才領3萬8是所以30年之後物價是怎麼變化這個很難去預估 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
9133.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
9136.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
對不對 你現在這個10年前股價還才1萬多少這個3年前股價才1萬3現在已經3萬7 2萬7了 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
9144.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9167.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
所以這個物價是非常高 變化非常大所以我覺得應該要超前部署的話是不是可以一次就到位掉30 70我跟你們報告因為我們這次調整除了退休儲金以外我們對老農今天也做了一些調整那這個部分其實加起來然後再加上我們剛才說的就是你有參加退休儲金我的補助有加碼的部分那個加碼的額度 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9169.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9181.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
會對於農民有更多的誘因我們希望說委員能夠支持這樣的一個方式如果這兩個制度加起來老農今天在你做一些調整你這個相關的機制調整調整的方向是如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9183.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9199.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
老農津貼老農津貼基本上分三個部分第一個部分是額度的部分現在是四年一次嘛那我們希望因為四年可能像CBI可能變成八九去了像今年到現在為止已經五點多了所以我們希望說四年之中如果說 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9200.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9221.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
兩年的過程中我們檢視一次如果說他CPI超過某個百分比我們就啟動調整但是四年做起來不變這第一個第二個部分就是排富的部分土地公告限值到目前為止過去一直沒有調整已經累積已經增加了64.78%然後我們一次會把它補到足然後同時我也一直跟行政院 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9222.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9250.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
建议就是说农民的房子他是辛苦一辈子才去买的他不容易去做变现他当然有生活所以我们希望说能够还有一个更好的一个设计的一个机制让这个排付条款能够再拉高一点你说是按照CPI调整或者按照这个COV就是土地公告限制好这些制度什么时候可以上路我们也已经送到行政院去了也跟院长报告过然后我们现在就等在合订之后就可以实施等没有等立法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9251.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9278.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
通過院會送到立法沒有 行政院通過院會送到立法院來的話就可以進到排審還是要修法對 現在已經修完了只是還沒有經過立法沒有 行政院的院會通過還要送到立法院嘛然後要送到立法院 對所以這兩個方向彌補這兩個方向補足之後未來30年之後這兩個制度加起來你預估農民退休一個月可以領多少錢大概3萬8左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9281.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9295.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
蛤 現在還是3萬8嗎調整之後喔老農今天又調了喔老農今天又調了可能會到4萬去了喔30年後如果勞退呢勞退才3萬3而已農退如果再調呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9296.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9322.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
勞退因為勞退的部分我們並沒有去了解他未來他的CPI不是 我說農退 農退你如果 農退如果再調的話農退調還有那個老農經驗也調的話那相關的30年後大概會將近4萬4萬左右啦現在算起來是3萬8嘛那未來可能會增加到4萬左右好好 謝謝謝謝我們邱志偉委員質詢 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9324.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9326.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
我們謝謝部長 我們請戴瑞隆委員質詢好 謝謝趙偉豪 請陳部長請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9339.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9363.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
我一樣先請教這個農退處境的部分現在的方案當然有1.5倍跟政府6農民4那我想請教因為現在到今年10月的話大概11萬人提交大概覆蓋率大概參與率大概五成差不多五成那如果我們採行現在的政府的方案就是6比4這樣的方案的話預估它的覆蓋率會到多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9364.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9377.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
我們希望說覆蓋率能夠再提高到10到15%10到15%所以等於是會6成56成到7成左右6成到7成但這樣的覆蓋率部長滿意嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9378.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9394.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
我想應該這麼講就是現在覆蓋率比較低的是青年農民大概是20幾歲到35歲之間他覆蓋率只有24%我們希望把這個部分因為這個部分是我們蔚藍農業的主力希望他的覆蓋率能夠讓到我希望更多青農進來回鄉來服務所以我們是 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9396.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9422.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
比較精準的希望這個族群的目標能夠再拉高一點從24至少能夠拉到60%左右這樣的話才有意義那你能不能在設計上面有一些對他們有利的一些制度讓他們更願意加進來這個因為這才達到你要的政策目的所以我才會說我們經過問卷他們不在乎最後領的是不是多領一點他們是在乎現在可不可以少繳一點所以我們才會去設計政府多出一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9422.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9446.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
保障不變那如果照這樣的思考點的話那如果73呢能不能讓他更少而讓我們的覆蓋率提升更多甚至讓更多青農願意加入到這個農退儲金的這個這個部分我們設計64以後我們另外加了一個方向就是如果你有增加你有加入退出儲金的話我們其他的相關的農業的這些補助能夠加碼 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9448.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9475.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
那其實他們現在喔青龍很多都是做貸款買農機具買蓋溫室那他的具體的制度會是什麼就是你要他具體的制度出來他才有可能產生對所以我們希望說是用六四的方式第一個讓他掃腳讓他先進來加保我先問一下部長如果是七三的話那大概覆蓋率會到多少你們的評估呢這個我們現在目前並沒有做很仔細的七三的一個評估如果在七三的話有可能再增加一成的這樣的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9476.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9489.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
我個人覺得其實現在目前如果如果是46的話他們現在每個月繳的部分其實並不多啦重點是他們希望說我們的補助能夠加碼 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9491.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9518.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
補助加碼的那個減少的那個他的經濟負擔會比但是現在那個細節出來了嘛就是執行的辦法出來嘛就是說我因為我因為參與到的農退雛心而能導致其他的補助能夠得到加碼我們現在初步大概是用5%來看那因為5%如果他蓋溫室有沒有他蓋所以會因為比如說因為你參與的這個制度我多增加你5%的補助類似這樣的方式然後這樣的話他的 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9519.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9546.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
節省的金額會比你們政策的評估因為增加了加入之後加了5%那會有更多有多少人應該會有更多所以我們最終的目標因為每一個保險不可能百分之百當然所以我們最期待的目標至少要八成對所以部長可不可以我們的目標上面是設定八成就是設定八成但你講這幾個都是政策目標但我也預估如果也許你用73的話也有可能可以達到八成的目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9546.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9574.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
那這樣兩種不同的路徑都是一個可行的路徑我也希望農業部在審慎地評估因為有時候這個最直接就是你直接定在這個裡面他很清楚地明白了我的負擔減低了然後我就有可能因為你現在預估可以到七成了嘛對 但如果說我們變七三可以到八成的話那等於更多的農民更多的青農願意加入這一套制度的話這也是我們要的目的嘛如果他對於他的將來退休的更有保障他願意加入的話我認為這個是最重要政策的目的 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9575.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9602.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
所以我們以八成為目標剛剛部長講這是一個路徑7比3也是一個路徑我們希望兩個一併來思考好不好我們會再去評估一下另外更細的政策評估讓他出來包括你的政策方向甚至於說這樣是不是能達到我們希望的八成的目標那如果我也個人認為如果有辦法達到八成的目標的話那應該這個政策其實就表示我們達到我們要的一個目的了好不好我們希望讓更多青龍回到農村去這是一個很重要的事情不管是在高雄或很多的中南部 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9603.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9617.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
很多的人口 農業人口的流失其實青農回去會扮演非常重要的角色而且他們的行銷能力他們的觀念 他們的栽種各方面都會帶動整個我們農村更走向更好的高價值化的一個效果是 這也是我們農業的目標好 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9618.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9634.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
再來我請教一下美濃其實是一個成功的例子啦他在過去他是菸業的但是因為後來我們加入WTO之後轉型後來我們在稻米我們在白玉蘿蔔在野蓮最近白玉蘿蔔在進行包括野蓮基於也成為一個很重要產業我也去看過很多次 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9635.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9654.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
這個部分他現在整個經濟的產值大幅提升 增加十倍之多所以我認為像這樣的經驗我希望未來農業部能夠持續支持像幾個很重要的農會他重要的一些轉型 成功的給予更大的支持 那我也看到他的經費其實反倒是在明年度是受到的減少 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9655.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9669.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
這個部長能不能允諾未來對於像美農像很多的其實高雄好幾個農會都做得非常的好我希望對於做得好的有方法有能力的給予他更多的支持讓他們能夠轉型更成功讓他們能夠帶動農民更大的一個效益 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9671.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9695.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
農會一直是我們農業在施政的一個非常重要的夥伴那有的農會其實他蠻積極的部分像您剛才所提到的一些比較農會有比較積極的部分那針對這個積極的部分我們包括如果他是有稻穀有糧倉的部分我們會協助他糧倉的改善那需要冷電的部分我們也會有一些支持這個是我們講我們一貫的做法所以我們會去支持這樣子的有積極心的這些農會 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9696.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9722.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
我之前當過海航局長我很清楚知道每一個農漁會他們有不同的那有些很積極的就會達到很好的效果那如果這個很積極的方向是正確的而政府又給予支持的話就會達到很大很大的很好效果這個就是我們現在在做的那我也希望農業部持續的協助農漁會在於很積極很有想法的也很有執行力的給予他們更多的支持讓他們做一個指標那做得很好的時候他們帶動很大的效益讓旁邊的也都會看得到 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9722.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9737.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
然後一起來交進來那這樣子有一個很強的農會跟所有農民合作的時候其實就達到很好的效果我也希望農業部在這塊的支持能夠繼續給予我想農會的支持我們還是持續在做但是經費上要給予支持啦因為這是最現實的問題我瞭解好不好 好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9738.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9759.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
那再來是 一樣啦 農業人口老化所以我們現在努力在讓更多的新農加入其實我們補充更多的外籍的勞力 增加更多智慧化甚至於保障農民生活 這個都跟今天有關那我也一樣 還是希望像我去看了很多的一些 像剛剛提到的野聯我覺得很多都是一些外籍的來協助來協助 因為那個工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9759.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9776.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
那我也希望這塊未來還是一樣思考怎麼樣讓產業能夠持續留在地方上面 留在農村裡面那這樣子才有辦法讓青農也進來然後另外有更多的人力來協助讓我們很多的產業走向像我常看很多他們很多的一些產業不管是 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9778.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9799.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
這個野蓮或者是甚至很多的水果的甚至很多的蔬果他們做得很好而且他們進到了很大的通路而且他們得到很高的規格到了全世界級的通路都進去了我們國家有很多市以後他進去了而且他的標準完全符合的我認為這個都會帶動他們很穩定的收益跟很高的一個價值我希望農業部要持續的來協助讓 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9800.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9815.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
我們這個缺口跟這季節性像你看在高雄的時候連90歲的阿嬤都還要上陣啦某一程度如果他有一些收入也不錯但是也凸顯出來我們在人力上確實很吃緊特別是一些季節性的我希望這些都能夠有彈性的思考 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9816.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9844.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
讓我們的農村能夠持續在產業上能夠更永續的發展我跟委員報告就是現在目前兩萬人我們也跟勞動部希望說他能夠再擴增人在第一個部分第二個部分就是我們也會針對一些行業放寬他的一個標準那這個部分我想現在大家對於移工的用的制度現在慢慢的熟悉了所以我們會逐步的放寬這個只要拿捏的好的話其實我認為對整個台灣的農村台灣的產業是有幫助然後我們有一些跨區的移工的調度這個現在已經在執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9845.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9871.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
最後一個問題我想請教現在我們禁用廚餘了那對於我們的黑豬會不會產生影響很多黑豬他本身對於廚餘這一塊是很依賴的這個有沒有辦法有一個好的我想我們已經成立了一個黑豬的一個輔導團隊那這個部分我想我們會立即的組這個團隊下將說明讓黑豬因為過往都是用廚餘嘛他用飼料可能他不習慣還有一些做法那這個配方的調整我們後續我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9872.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9886.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
我們會持續的來努力他剩下可能還是成本的問題我也希望能夠協助他們能夠做一個順利的一個對 我知道這個就是配方的一個調整我們非常重要請部長再詮釋讓這些事情除以這件事情能夠圓滿的一個解決了解 我想我們朝這個目標好 謝謝部長謝謝賴瑞榮委員的質詢謝謝 謝謝部長我們請張綺凱委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9919.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9945.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
謝謝 主席 部長就坐著了部長 高麗菜 今年高麗菜產量過剩那個價格價格大跌現在這個農民很辛苦而且無助所以最近我另外一邊為了幫助這個幫助這個農民另外一邊也幫我們嘉義鄉親加菜 所以我這禮拜 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9947.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9975.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
我就買了一些高麗菜回去送給這個鄉親 讓這個農民不要那麼辛苦不要那麼辛苦那透過八位里長在家裡來領的人也很多那很多農民就在問齊凱一件事情 他就說要靜靜 要靜的時候農業部應該可以適度跟他們提醒可是我看了一下 現在有兩個大的問題你看喔 來我們看下一張來 你看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9976.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
10002.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
除了燈號之外 我看你們花了五個紅燈然後三個黃燈以後 後來紅燈又掉下來嘛那很多專家寫者就在建議啊他說高麗菜差不多等年都有產銷適合這個事情嘛對不對 幾乎每年都發生啊那農業部能不能在這個外銷上面多去幫助農民尤其是東北亞這個亞洲的這個東北亞很多都需要一些蔬菜嘛 尤其是高麗菜這個農業部可以做嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
10003.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
10030.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
我跟你們報告第一個部分就是我們相對的如果到了東南亞東北亞日本還有韓國還有機會有一部分但是那個量比較少因為我們的高利貸的硬度跟國外的是不太一樣的部分但是成本的問題是比較困難但是我們還是會努力拉一些外交的還有一些簡易的問題我去探討以後我發現外交是一條很重要的路你看看 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
10033.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
10043.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
下一張那個整個那個外交台你看其實陳吉仲在1862年他曾經提過他跟全民宣誓說在108年的時候我們外銷農產品的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10047.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10068.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
金額要達到60億美金 你看這條就是我們外銷歷年來從民國100年一直到112年農產品外銷的十幾年來都是幾乎是一個平的線而且到了最近這幾年還是往下降沒有達到陳其中當初跟全民保證跟農民保證了 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10070.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10081.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
60億美金沒有一年達到108年也沒有達到然後更嚴重的所以這幾年還在掉外銷這部分能不能趕快加強好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10083.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10108.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
我跟委員報告這幾年外銷有稍微下滑那最主要幾個因素就是第一個部分就是因為其實去年跟特別是去年跟今年我們遇到很多颱風我們自己的生命就不太夠了有沒有因為外銷的這些品項受到因為颱風的影響所以減少了部分所以這個部分我想我們還會更精準的去走高端市場讓它的量比較少但是它的價格是不是可以比較高一點來維持這個我們會來努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10110.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10121.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
增加量然後你講的很好就是包括價格要提升因為你高麗菜來看剛才看高麗菜你看他在107年你看曾經7 6 4 5結果到了100 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10123.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10140.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
113年竟然只剩下他十分之一然後講這個萎縮的太嚴重了那另外有個點農民在反映的農民在外銷可以幫他們的同時現在好像很多都是後來就買去就是當成那個多元新環經濟就是當廢料了 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10144.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10170.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
我想甘藍的部分我們不做去化的部分因為甘藍的部分第一個就是我們有一個警示而且我們很多也發簡訊發到農民的手中那威華你也知道嗎因為甘藍的部分如果說維持在10塊上下過去都是因為他們都認為說量多的時候政府就會出手所以他就不斷地種多所以現在目前大概12塊吧現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10172.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10199.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
12到15之間現在是比較穩定當然前一段時間量比較多的話是也比較節說跟15這真的很慘對不對12到15應該是一個合理的利潤的啦對啦那剛才外銷其實你看剛才的外銷其實這幾年的外銷還是有成長我們會來努力就是拉到其他的國家但是檢疫的問題可能要更慎重來處理農民在歡迎說你現在去其實我包括高麗菜有些都有拿去做那個去化你看一百塊八年 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10201.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10219.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
還有到113還有一些當然盡量減少我甚至說買回來不一定買回去的時候可以做很多事情啊不只是外銷啊你還是可以做充分的利用以前那個香蕉比較多跟國防部都有些合作啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10220.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10248.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
買回去如果只要有一個一定的用途那價格應該有一部分可以當加工的部分加工也可以用最重要最重要的就是讓他們的價格可以提升了解後來我們來說另外一個就是公娘收購公娘收購那時候通過了1公斤調高5塊錢之後博定你有說你說怕調高之後生產會過剩可是我現在很明確明確給你看事實上去年調高之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10250.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10277.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
到座的面積沒有升反而往下降對不對那是因為我們的糧食產業政策有沒有我剛才說的我們只處理福島收購價格然後相對的增加相對的那個公糧收購量而不是用五塊去所以用我們的政策很實際的現在的糧價就支撐在那邊而且繳公糧的反而變少了表示說用民糧的方式就可以來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10279.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10306.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
你跟農民講說一下子調高太多事實證明就沒有沒有啊那是因為我們的政策才造成這樣子而不是直接拉5塊拉5塊一定不是今天這個結果政策是一部分啦我現在是跟你講說你當初跟農民講說會很多人搶著走那就沒有嘛從這個數據很清楚就是面積更多的面積反而降委員 這個誤解喔我們是用我們的政策去推動才能夠獲得這樣的成果而不是用5塊錢直接加購 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10307.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10333.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
五塊錢加購絕對不是今天這個成果喔不對喔你那個五塊錢是朝野協商購的民進黨也說要推你那個現在只調了一塊八對不對你當然有某些政策啦可是你陸陸續續你有答應還要陸陸續續續還要在台北不管怎麼樣不管委員的這些提案我們的重點就是讓農民的收益變多嘛然後現在用我們的政策讓農民的收益就已經變得很穩定而且變高這是大家願意看到的嘛升高了三分之一嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10333.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10360.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
有人做了統計說我們全國農民因為這個政策可能今年多收入可能有40億那現在就是要適度再增高你要三分還欠農民三分之二你可以慢慢來沒有 這個不能這樣講這不能這樣講因為您提的提案跟我們的提案目的就是讓農民的所得保障跟提高用我們的政策除了保障水稻的農民也保障了一些種雜糧的部分所以大家一起提高那是我們共同期待看到的目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10360.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10378.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
就是台灣民眾黨提案 國民黨也提案 我們完成了立法院 民進黨也沒有反對啊所以是三黨通過了 每公斤調高五塊那你說你用的政策很好 後來做了一個決策慢慢讓農民可以收入 可以增加 這是好的啦而且比較鐵氣你 就是沒有出現你剛剛講以前在擔心什麼面積 身高這個問題更重要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10380.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10400.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
制度還有一個應該要再提高啦因為當初立法院通過的不要像那個行政院長說什麼我就不執行這樣不好 會變成憲政一個危機來保證我另外問你一個問題那個米還是外銷的問題來講這個公糧跟米米的外銷這幾年表現得不好你像咖哩 咖哩在推動這個幸福的咖哩今年米的外銷很不錯啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10401.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10408.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
非常好啊今年到目前為止我給你看下一張有嗎今年114年1月到10號有嗎只有110年的一半 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10415.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10439.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
不可能 我覺得我們會後再給你資料我們今年的米特別好 今年的米特別好OK 今天米特別好啦 兩個啦 第一就是在減少 所以在外銷米方面再加強 這是第一個第二個 你看我們嘉義推動這個嘉義平和嘉義米這是嘉義市政府幫忙 黃米會他們幫忙啊 他們就推展到日本去啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10440.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10457.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
地方政府都可以做那你的資源更多嘛 對不對我想我們全台灣有非常多的米銷到日本我們都有協助包括跟農會協助包括跟地方政府合作我們都有在做對會 我們會一起來努力臺灣的米非常好你想一份現在會省米啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10458.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10466.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
那多推一些到日本去外銷再多一點讓我們的農民收入可以增加好不好好我們會來努力謝謝張其凱委員的質詢謝謝部長我們請張家俊委員質詢謝謝主席我想請部長請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10481.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10497.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
部長 你今天跟我一樣高不好意思 因為我腰閃到沒有 身體要保重 身體第一重要部長 我想跟部長討論今天有關於溯源農糧產品的追溯系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10498.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10518.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
這個系統原本是要讓消費者能夠找到生產者然後幫助農民拓展他的通路提升這個食品安全國際競爭力等等但現在卻出現了一個非常現實的問題只要人在國外這個系統就完全打不開那所以呢外銷產品你要掃這個QR code頁面是無法顯示的你覺得這樣這個設計合理嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10523.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10542.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
我跟委員報告就是我們的溯源產品是在國內買賣的時候可以使用那因為到國外去賣的話如果我們農產品送到國外去的時候那個溯源不一定會跟著走這第一個因為有的貿易商他會用他自己的溯源條碼像日本市場他就會用自己的所以不一定看得到 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10543.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10564.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
所以那這個部分喔其實9月啊9月本席就有正式發文給農業部就說你們回覆說你們給我的回覆跟部長回覆有點不大一樣他說開放國外IP會增加駭客入侵的風險所以暫不開放查詢那我覺得這理由有一點荒謬為什麼呢因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10565.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10584.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
這個進入這個頁面其實是不是進入後台你知道嗎只是現在要查資料其實如果開一個VPN其實一樣看得到就是要多繞一圈啊真的我是希望農業部能夠理解說就像剛剛張綺凱委員講的我們很多東西要外銷啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10584.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10601.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
那這個QR Code不就是要讓大家知道溯源安全嗎那我們的東西外銷到國外為什麼國外不能掃我們的QR Code然後理解我們整個產地的狀況呢所以我也希望說這套溯源系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10602.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10630.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
它真正的目的要能夠落實而不是打折不是說國外IP都不能進來那我們意思說我們也不想要讓國外的人買這個產品或者是理解使用這個溯源系統嗎我跟委員報告至於說您這邊寫的就是IP會增加駭客我會再詳細了解但是我還是要強調就是我們的農產品進到國外的時候我們那個溯源碼會被拿掉因為這會根據他們的他們會貼他們自己的碼 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10631.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10648.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
如果你這樣講我還比較能夠理解因為這個給我的回覆我覺得非常的不可思議就是說是不是能夠跟速發部甚至說資安評估一下這個我們會來介紹但是有一個我要跟委員報告就是我們現在跟一些日本特別是日本的通路商 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10649.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10662.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
就是我們的溯源碼跟他們的溯源碼能夠連結這樣的話就可以從他們的消費端一直追到產地端這才是對的這個部分我們在努力好不好這個請你們加油因為我覺得這樣才是正確的溯源系統應該是國內外通用因為我們現在農產品正走向國際像高價值的台灣高山茶葉像主攻日本市場的愛文芒果還有目前美國想要跟我們購買的鳳梨等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10677.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10704.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
等等這個溯源系統的目的就是要建立信任而且國際上有很多開放這個查詢的平台都有很好的資安防腐我想我們應該可以努力去做到所以這一點請部長特別關心我會來處理這個IP的部分我會再來詳細了解如果不行的話我會請抒發部來協助是我想抒發部這一方面應該是有相當的水準可以來協助然後把這件事情做好那就拜託部長了 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10705.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10726.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
那另外今天大家在討論這個農退燭金啊我想農退燭金上路到現在政府一直強調說照顧農民喔這是一個非常重要的這個德政但是本席看到一些數據覺得說還有很多努力的空間那目前為止喔大家都知道說好像青農 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10727.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10752.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
救保的意願不是很高那今天也非常多的委員詢問我也想知道說目前部長是怎麼想的呢基本上就是吹油除菌本身我們希望說保障不變然後農民負擔少一點政府負擔多一點因為我們的問卷看起來因為特別是青農我現在講的青農本身大概投保率只有24%也非常低 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10753.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10780.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
然后我们也问了问卷以后也做了青年作单他们觉得说他们现在的收入不是那么稳定而且有非常多的贷款如果这个时候能够少缴一点保障不便的情况之下他们的意愿就会提高所以我才会设计说用六四的方式然后再加上一个如果你有参加退休除金的话我的其他的一些政策的补助我可以做适度的加码那这样的话对他们来讲你的经济负担就能够减轻 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10781.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10809.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
這又是另外一個本席想要討論的問題就是現在的青農真的是收入越來越低不穩定不穩定之外還越來越低真的包括說我們雲林為例好了今年菜家真的是慘不忍睹部長我很希望說農業部真的能夠提出一些解決的辦法也許跟過去傳統的辦法不一樣但您我相信您看了這麼多你也在農業部這麼久 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10810.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10828.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
你知道說這個系統肯定是有所缺失才會讓農民賺不到錢那怎麼辦呢如果假設他們持續賺不到錢我們設計這個當然是美意但是假設青農越來越少然後我們的老農也越來越少到底台灣誰要務農呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10830.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10844.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
不過我跟委員報告您所關心的其實在我們的菜價的部分其實短期葉菜類的衝擊是最大的短期所以我們現在一直因為特別是颱風過後連續幾個颱風的話因為颱風完了以後大家同時種那量就會變多因為上次 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10850.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10876.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
上次你就告訴我說你不會釋出這個冷凍的這一些這個硬質蔬菜來平衡菜價但事實上就是有嘛我跟委員報告齁我們釋出的那個那個才佔1% 2%而已它不會去影響我現在那個只是針對都會區的部分真的真的是影響非常的大這個菜價大家都心裡想說如果假設颱風來了然後它趕快再去搶種 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10879.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10894.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
他種都還沒長出來菜家就已經跌了你知道嗎就已經跌到谷底而且呢我覺得最大的一個問題是他跌了可能半個月甚至半年三個月半年都沒有人要管的耶 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10895.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10917.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
好像你愛種是你家的事你賠錢是你家的事那這樣子還有誰願意勿農呢我跟委員報告我們會把這些種植的資訊更透明化讓農民去了解這是非常重要的然後第二個就是我們也會盡量的去輔導這些短期業菜類的部分他能夠用更好的設施栽培才不會受到颱風的影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10918.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
10940.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
不只是設施栽培啊你價格提不起來你投資越多他損失越多啊現在農民最痛苦的就是成本成本全面上漲然後價格是全面下跌紙箱肥料人工農藥檢驗費用都比以前高尤其極端氣候讓務農喔這個難度越來越高那我也希望說 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
10941.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
10968.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
農業部其實最最重要的這個農漁畜牧都是部長所管的那你不能夠農民越來越少啊你知道農民越來越少因為賺不錢他就是要離開啊他就是要去吃陶爐啊我說實在我這一點我當然很歡迎我們青農回來我也覺得他們都很有想法然後也很會行銷但是那賺不錢他們就逼不得已他們就必須去上班 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
10969.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
10993.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
這一點部長有研究一下嗎我想我們會做整體的去考量特別是我們從明年開始應該會把更多的這些種植資訊在第一時間就讓農民去了解然後有關於比較容易集中種植造成後面產量更多的時候我們會再想辦法看有沒有辦法做一些計劃性的生產的部分去處理甚至說有沒有辦法保障他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
10995.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11008.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
保障他們收入的這個制度可能要去思考一下市場的機制沒有辦法在現在沒有辦法用所謂的保障價格的方式或者是有一個樓地板或者是有一個最低的樓地板這個部分我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11011.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11033.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
部長研議一下然後大家集思廣益一下然後也借鏡一下其他國家我們一起來討論是不是能夠讓農民真的不要種菜種到懷疑人生懷疑說我為什麼在這裡我在做什麼那這樣子農業部的價值才有辦法大大的發揮起來謝謝部長謝謝你身體要保重要去整骨啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11037.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11038.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
謝謝張家俊委員質詢 謝謝部長我們請盧憲英委員質詢就是有請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11056.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11082.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
部長好 委員好我們先針對我們的災區就是我們這次的災區有光復鳳林跟萬榮它這是煙射火的那個淤泥可能短時間裡面沒有辦法耕作那可能他們就沒有收入這個時候他們如果要有參加農退處境的時候沒有辦法按時繳納或者是說他們六個月連續被扣款失敗的話有沒有一個機制可以保護他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11083.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11104.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
我想第一個我們已經有延長六個月了然後我們會做一些比較更彈性的來調整就是說針對這個地區的農業的復耕的進度如果的話進度如果沒辦法超過六個月還是沒辦法處理的話我相信我們還會再延 而不會影響它的權益這個部分我想我們會來彈性的調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11105.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11126.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
好這幾天我問了一些就是災損的那個民眾有沒有收到補償金他們說確實有收到不過有些建議跟部長報告因為常常原住民地區的耕作物不是單一的有的時候他的耕作面積不是很大所以當然就時效性因為地緣遼闊啊還有承辦人員的辛苦他們要翻山越嶺那 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11127.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11143.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
常常為了去一個地方可能要騎搭檔的摩托車上去結果去了以後結果申報結果沒有辦法獲得補償或者說補償金非常少那有一個建議就是說如果他確實是他只靠這一分地或是不到一分地的這個農作物在過生活 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11144.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11172.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
其實可以去問說他這個這一年他因為這塊地他實際的收入多少有一個補償的機制比如說他這一年完全沒有收入的話是不是如果他原本是應該可以拿到一萬塊是不是給補償個三千塊或者是這樣的一個基準來弄因為現在的補償機制是這樣他是看作物類別嘛然後如果說他這是這次的話是芋頭結果他這個芋頭田裡面因為可能他的需要他會種一些花生啊或者什麼就其他的雜糧可是他在補償的時候他不是針對這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11174.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11193.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
所有的種類他只對單一種類所以他的耕地面積已經很少了結果他補償的時候是又是以農作物的話他實際可以拿到的補償金可能不到1000塊所以我就說應該是按照他實際一年的收入然後給他補償多少錢這樣的一個思考邏輯可以嗎我想跟委員報告特別是在 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11194.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11222.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
一些栽培面积比较少的话它同一块地会种的非常多的作物那相对的我们没有办法实际上去从它的作物它花生种多少量然后它的芋头种多少量这样去处理这个没办法处理的我知道那是个别那是因为特别辛苦的人所以我是觉得说如果有一个有别于一般的机制来讲的话至少让他们的生活至少有一些补偿这样这样的一个逻辑来帮忙他们可以吗 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11223.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11242.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
我這個可能會後再看實際的這些狀況因為基本上如果一塊地種很多的話我們會用大宗的部分來處理好 那我們回到今天的主題就是關於年金的部分那我今天上午問了我們鄰居就是只要知道的農人我說你領多少錢他大概都是領大概8000塊左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11242.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11271.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
那我今天聽了質詢後大概我知道大概現在在推的是都是在講30年以後的事情所以那我覺得如果你要鼓勵年輕人的話你應該是要講說那每5年 每10年你投入這個農保以後你可能我們的預期是多少因為他沒有辦法想到30年以後的事或者說他的誘因不足嘛然後你現在可能剛剛有講了他的可能像是2800那可能以後調到4比6的話可能是2200多那其實沒有差距很大 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11271.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11293.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
那如果你要怎麼來誘引這些年齡別的人我是覺得說你們的那個KPI值應該是要去設定說各個年齡別願意投入這個農保這個除菌這個這個比例你要怎麼來來努力把它完成那我現在看到全國的年齡別大概全國的那個涵蓋率大概是30%左右嘛可是原住民的部分經過一番努力去年 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11293.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11315.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
今天才委員說6%現在我早上問他說目前進步到8%不過這個8%還是不足千人所以我是希望部長說我們原住民的人口五十幾萬人你說只有不到千人來參加這個而且我們幾乎都是現在都是轉型為農人了所以我是覺得說這個比例上面是不是也要檢討我們目前 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11315.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11330.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
原鄉幾乎沒有一個很非常成功的農會或者說農會幾乎都是在跟原地鄉平地鄉的農會綁在一起所以沒有一個獨立自主的農會在經營所以這是一個契機去檢討原住民地區盤點 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11332.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11359.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
平地原住民 山地原住民地區的農會的一個契機讓這個農會可以真正的去強化它的功能然後增加我們年輕人的誘因好不好好 謝謝委員我想我們已經在做就是我想過去原住民部落本身大概都是公所為主要的這些溝通的地方那農會相對的角色比較少一點這個部分我想我們已經要求一些農會我們提升一些農會的功能 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11360.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11382.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
對於這個原民部落這些原住民朋友們的一些協助啦所以這個部分我們後續會來加強好 謝謝 謝謝部長謝謝謝謝盧憲宇委員的質詢 謝謝部長我們現在請賴思寶 賴思寶 賴思寶委員不在何欣淳 何欣淳 何欣淳委員不在蘇清泉 蘇清泉 蘇清泉委員不在我們現在請蔡易餘委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11397.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11401.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
謝謝主席 那我們是不是有請部長 陳部長部長 委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11402.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11427.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
那因為今天我也是提案的委員那我針對這個農退的儲金那目前覆蓋率不足那如果我們政府來提高比例 增加誘因而且也減輕農民的一個經濟負擔那我這邊也有列舉了這個農退儲金的一個提繳的一個提繳的人那看起來從111年開始就卡在9萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11428.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11447.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
甚至在114年感覺人數反而還減少了那我想要請教部長那對於這樣農退雛心的一個提繳人數一直沒有辦法再往上拉覆蓋率大概就41%那你們的看法是怎樣那以及你對我這一次的提案那農業部的態度是怎樣呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11449.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11471.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
我跟委員報告第一個部分就是其實農保的人數也逐年在下降那現在從現在目前覆蓋率其實最低的是青年的部分從25歲到35歲這之間那他本身大概覆蓋率只有24%所以我們怎麼樣讓這些青年的農民能夠提高他的投保率是一個非常重要的目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11472.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11495.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
所以我們也做了一些問卷也跟青榮做了一些座談那因為他們在從事農業的時候因為他們的收入不是那麼穩定而且做了很多貸款初期的時候所以他們一直希望說能夠少繳一點然後他們覺得說後面的30年後他們沒辦法去想像30年後的保額提高會是怎麼樣的效果 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11496.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11522.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
但眼下如果低的話他們願意來比較願意來投保所以我們才會設計說在保障一樣的情況之下農民少繳一點政府多繳一點就是6比4的方式來處理那這樣的話我相信應該對他們會有一些增加他們的投保的意願所以補充你會支持說我們用6比4未來再查證我們送到行政院的版本就是用6比4的方式來送好那這版本什麼時候會出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11523.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11538.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
這個版本其實已經送到院裡面一段時間了現在目前正等待院會通過以後就會送到立法院來好 那事實上我也關心還有一件事情就是我們在講老榮今天的排付條款 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11539.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11567.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
因為這個牌付條款你限縮農民他的不動產在五百萬那或者他的收入是在五十萬以下基本上這個對於農民來說是一個很大的不公平而且你知道事實上很多農民為了這條老農津貼可能他的不懂善愛抓貴貨愛抓貴貨給別人我覺得這個都增加了很多社會不必要的成本所以這個老農津貼的牌付條款 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11568.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11573.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
是不是可以來做一個比較大幅度的調整這件事情 農業部 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11576.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11602.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
我們也做了非常大幅度的調整也送到行政院去也跟院長報告過了大概分為三個部分第一個部分就是額度的部分過去額度是四年針對CPI去調整那現在我們的版本裡面也設計了大概兩年會去檢視如果CPI超過某個百分比的時候就啟動調整那這個東西可以比較實際的反映物價的部分像今年已經預估大概五點多嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11603.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11627.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
那如果說能夠有調整的機會那更好那第二個部分是排富的部分那從您剛才所看到的現在目前的公告土地限值的部分從100年開始一直都沒有調過到目前為止已經增加大概64.78%所以我們在這一次的版本裡面我們也設計了一個未來的會根據公告地價而調整但是在最新的一次的話會一次把它調滿 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11628.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11650.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
就是過去的64.78沒調的我們一次把它調滿那未來也會根據土地公告限值CLV的部分去調整那第三個部分就是這個調整就是包括土地跟財產的部分我們也跟行政院說明就是農業本身的房子是我們農民辛苦一輩子努力得到的他的房子的 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11651.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11664.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
的價值跟一般人家買房子的價值觀念是不一樣的所以我們也除了這些土地公告限值的部分是不是還有一個設計可以讓他的那個排富的門檻更高一點這個部長就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11666.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11689.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
不然因為你們看起來就是說你們是要房子跟土地價值500萬可能會把這幾年沒有調的就是64%這個把它補回來但是我覺得你那個唯一自住的房子扣除額度我覺得我注定既然是唯一自住的房子這部分就全部不要算進去 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11691.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11711.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
因為它就是大家嘛不管它是大好大壞農民大好住好一點也不是罪過嘛那幹嘛還要把它限一個400你400你把64%加上去可能也是到達700而已啊事實上以現在整個的一個房價來說我感覺這些都不好啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11712.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11733.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
看可以說你們在調整的時候不然就是至少對於唯一自住的房子這一件事情就不要去搭以後就不要再去限制這一件事了我跟委員報告在實務上因為我們的版本送到行政院去已經經過了一些討論了那如果說還要再重新去做這些思考像您剛才的建議的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11734.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11751.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
那整個版本要重新退回來再一次所以後續我會尊重委員會的一些討論因為我們都有很多我們自己的版本而且未來在討論的時候就是說有院版那每個立委的版本大家一起討論那農業部分應該要更持平更以農民的立場然後來去思考這整件事 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11755.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11776.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
真的只有一棟而且是他自己住的部分那整棟那是都沒關係啦我覺得這個是可以來討論的像農舍我們現在都沒有在處理是啦當然農舍是沒有嘛但是很多農民並不是多數農事啊他們就可能說在附近的住宅區買一間房子而且這房子事實上有的地方漲價的還漲的蠻多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11778.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11804.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
你這個唯一自助啊 他就要去歡樂說我這個唯一自助啊 現在到底是錢是多少 會超過嗎 超過我的勞動進程的薪水嗎我們不要讓他去歡樂這個啦讓他們生活過得可以比較 信賴的 住得比較寬心的啦好不好 那部長我再短短的時間再澄清一件事啦就是喔 我們替我們基層的民意代表 我們基層的民意代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11805.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11827.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
他們可能本來都是農保那因為選舉然後變成民意代表後就變成沒有農保的狀況那等到了他落選或者是他不選了他可能需要恢復農保可是已經超過65歲了所以他就變成什麼保都沒有民意代表可以維持農保餒民意代表可以維持農保維持農保是要兩年後 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11828.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11839.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
兩年後這件事情部長可以了解一下他要恢復農保沒有他不用退民意代表他是可以維持農保的喔可以一直維持嗎可以維持農保意思是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11841.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11867.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
好那這件事我要再理解一下因為我在把資料提供給委員我現在聽到的一些反應就是說因為他當了民意代表後他的農保沒有了那等到了他落選了他超過65歲他就等於是未來這基層民意代表我們所有的民意代表就不用退保都可以維持農保那你把資料給我一下我覺得這部分我可能要再釐清一點好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
11870.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
11873.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
謝謝蔡育委員質詢謝謝 謝謝我們部長我們現在請郭國文委員質詢謝謝主席 有請陳部長陳部長就在那邊等我們來 陳部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
11888.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
11906.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
部長我剛剛聽到跟那個蔡議委員的這個答詢當中就是有關於我們這個老容津貼的這一個部分的排付條款的部分事實上之前兩年多前本席提案的時候就說後來顧慮到跟其他的社福津貼八大津貼掛鉤在一起不想要單獨處理聽起來是不是已經脫鉤了是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
11908.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
11930.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
我跟委員報告就是之前委員也有一些建議嘛然後還有就是我們也根據一些委員的建議設計的版本我們已經送到行政院去了所以說你們是打算脫鉤處理沒有 我們是希望脫鉤啦脫鉤處理嘛行政院一直沒有進到應該要脫鉤早早就要脫鉤掛鉤其實是沒有道理的嘛沒有 因為行政院一直沒有排到院位其實他沒考量就是要跟八大涉無那個整個 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
11932.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
11950.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
時代的轉變那個門檻越來越嚴格當初我就換算那個整個物價指數等等加起來應該要提高到800萬了沒關係這個態度有轉變是重要的條文內容以後再討論那今天我們在討論這個農民退休金條例的這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
11951.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
11973.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
在之前我們委員會其實就已經有所討論了那我當初的主張就是在從1比1變成1比1.5就這一次您提出來的這個方案當中40比60在倍數上是有呼吻本席的這一個說法但是就總額的部分還是有落差因為你總額沒有增加也就是說你一樣是用29550的這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
11978.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
12006.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
2乘以2然后再把它切成4 6比的这个概念基本上你会影响到最终的这个所得替代额的部分比如说你没有管替代率你变成一个总额把它框架住但是你没有管未来的所得替代率是否能够增加所得替代率你没有增加的情况底下你基本上你的社会安全体系就没有办法强化这第一点本席要跟你说明了第二个呢从10月份最新的数字当中我们这一个 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
12008.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
12035.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
預計這個投保的人數加總起來大概只有八萬九千人也就是不到三成啊青龍的部分大概只有25%那過往呢其實就我們一直在argue說為什麼比例這麼低原因就是那個誘因的問題啊這誘因有兩種嘛一種是什麼你的這一個提撥金額嘛一種是你的給付金額嘛那你現在的這個方案只有提撥優惠但是給付社會安全法中都沒有嘛主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
12036.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
12038.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
部長 我意思是說你這個有盲點啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12040.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12068.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
我跟委員報告第一個部分就是您剛才講的就是說最後30年後到的時候我們會每一年都會隨著基本公司的調整然後如果說用1比1.5的時候我們試算過了就是說未來農民的部分大概一個月可以領到4萬5左右那我們也考量多說當我們送進行政院的時候一定會跟其他的社福基金相比那一般勞保的部分大概只有3分3所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12068.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12085.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
那個通過性的機會比較比較比較小啦所以我們才會設計6比4然後增加一些其他的有那個你跟老闆比較你們他們會跟老闆比較但是時間性的那個時間相度不一樣啊因為我們這個執行的時間相對比較短嘛那為何以後拉長的時間的變數比較大 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12087.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12099.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
更何況你所說的這個30年也不容易有30年齡為什麼因為這些95%的部分大部分都是屬於這一個40到64歲你如果現在60歲 50歲你是怎麼可能再做30年那是不可能的事情 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12104.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12129.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
部長 所以說你這個30年的這一個估計方式基本上就有前提上的一個誤判就是鼓勵親農 我們鼓勵親農就是有一個誤判嘛所以說你不可能所得替代率會那麼高嘛你跟其他的勞保的部分來做比較勞保的部分兩種加總起來他還有勞退的部分他不當當加起來也不只如此啊所以我是覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12129.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12154.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
那個部長你這個部分真的要再重新思考清楚第一個呢前面的部分呢整個社會安全網的強化不夠那幾副你沒有從幾副觀念你只有從提撥的概念可是呢這30年的計算方式你又不死所以說你會變成這個所得替代率不足的情況底下而社會安全網不夠啦我請那個部長再回去思考一下我想我們會從不同的年齡 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12155.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12182.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
投保的年齡有沒有 我們另外算出一個他可以領的部分對 集聚的部分我們再來分析不是漢布朗當全部弄起來而且還有一個就龜丹溫泉的最近有一個1.2億你們林業署的這個燃沙壩花了1.2億還有覆潑設施本來是用來做農業的灌溉還有包括土地的流失啊最近說要把它拆掉啦這是怎麼一回事啊這個已經取消施作了喔什麼 已經施作了 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12183.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12204.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
跟委員報告我們那天開說明會完之後因為民眾他們里長他們的意見我們都非常尊重對 你們要尊重對 好不容易花了1.21才沒多久而已那整個南溪龜灘那邊的農民都在反彈取消就好了謝謝謝謝郭國文委員質詢謝謝部長我們現在請劉建國委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12221.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12241.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
好謝謝召委也謝謝部長部長看這個報導應該就很清楚我還是接續郭國文委員剛才的這樣的一個提醒不過我可能有不同的角度去去解讀為什麼這個農民的這個農退除菁這個參與率為什麼這麼低我個人只有我先下結論第一個就是宣導不利 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12242.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12265.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
第二個執行力道不足這是我個人的感覺已經從109年通過之後101年開始實施那已經快將近5年這個中間我們有曾經在這5年之中有沒有做過任何的一個重新盤整重新調查然後發掘到到底是什麼樣的狀況為什麼要讓農民有更高的這樣一個保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12266.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12291.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
然後可以來享用到這個新的一個政策對他們做這樣的鼓勵相對著我們也按照這個最低的這個勞保的基本工資的這樣的一個比例而且是在這幾年來一直有在增加對不對然後從小時候應該有調整到八次然後這個賴總統調整到一次那基本上這個是主理在增加相對著我們這個農民繳交的這樣的一個這個等於是分擔金來講 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12295.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12311.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
政府也相對提撥應該鼓勵的讓人家積極的月曆來加入的這個成分會增加那為什麼會有這樣的審計報告老農今天是佔預算的4成然後被保險人提繳農退儲金僅3成 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12314.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12335.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
不想那麼簡單說明一下第一個跟委員報告老農今天本身是65歲以上的對然後退休儲金是65歲以下這兩個的分母是不一樣的當然所以相對的我們如果說用實際的從農者65歲以下又在實際從農的22萬所以我們現在的覆蓋率大概是將近五成這第一個說明第二個說明就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12335.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12359.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
我們也實際的去跟農民去做問卷特別是青農現在只有24%而已最低的就是青農的這個區塊所以我們也實際去問他然後得到了一個結論就是說他們現在的收入不穩定而且做了非常多的貸款包括農機包括溫室的部分那他們認為說如果能夠讓他們的負擔減少的時候那他們投保的意願就會提高所以我們才會設計說好 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12361.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12375.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
保障不變的情況之下政府多出一點6成然後農民少出一點4成我們才會設計這樣的一個機制那我必須要跟部長講今天我們就是要保護我們是要鼓勵從農對不對那更多的這個人來從事農業的工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12378.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12407.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
我給部長看一個數據啦齁這也是從我們實施這個農民儲金之後的前後的一個差異部長可以看到原本我們農戶從一百零八年是七十七萬戶一零九七十五一一零七十六一一一七十六現在一二是七十五點九農業的就業人口一零八是五十五點九萬一零九是五十四點八萬減了將近一點一萬一一零的時候又剩下五十四點二萬減了六千一一的時候是五十三萬減了將近一點二萬一一的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12408.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12422.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
對照12對照11減得更多減得將近2.1萬人也就是說我們從11年開始實施農民處境一直到現在從農業的就業人口是持續的快速的在銳減喔我跟委員報告1億4的話已經到了48萬7更低了 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12427.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12452.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
對 所以相對我今天我看待的情況應該不是這個分攤的問題如果要去強調分攤問題那我建議絕對不能只有增加10%而已我們現在是按照基本工資的10分之一嘛 對不對通關可以叫10分之一嘛 也可以叫10分之以下嘛好 你有去精算過他叫10分之一前鋒的跟叫10分之以下的比例是多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12454.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12481.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
我講的話 大部分都交10%對嘛 多數都要交10%嘛 對不對好 那會交低於10%的比例應該是不高嘛是所以我要表達就是說當我們這個政策在保障農民那農民從事農業有看到未來的保障有看到這個希望的情況之下但是那個比例一直拉不高起來所以如果陳魯剛才部長答覆我的因為他有買了農機具 他有相關的貸款所以再繳這條錢 他覺得負擔蓋單的情況之下 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12484.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12489.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
你幾十趴怎麼夠你幾十趴是多少像現在是兩萬八千塊兩千八百幾塊對不對我們的兩千八百幾塊變幾 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12496.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12516.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
給他們負擔 把他們的10%給我們的新鄉年 給他們給2、3百塊我跟委員報告 一個月給2、3百塊你覺得對這個農民的資金會產生誘因嗎沒有 我現在的設計就是說 你如果參加退職除菌的時候我的農業的補助我可以加碼 那個加碼像農機區的補助我可能可以加到3% 5%那這個讓他的經濟的負擔降低的 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12520.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12530.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
效果會比你這邊又多了好像3.7啊或者2.8這樣子還多啦因為這下去就是比較多錢啦你如果可以這樣想當然是比較好啦但是你如果單純你說這個加這個10%他們會說我覺得那個誘因還是不夠啦因為是一個月加2.3百塊而已嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12537.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12545.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
但是要調控這個風雲去走,這個外出要支持嘛但是你剛才說有附帶的一些相關的一些獎勵我想才可以有辦法讓他們這個才有機會拉抬那個覆蓋率因為這是你來的行,這是你做副主委的時候過去進步,你的臨來去定的這跟我們所有的政黨委員大家共同檢討出來一個很好一個情形我們就是要讓我們這些青龍 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12562.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12574.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
甚至於四五歲的農民他來這個時間點加入都有可以增加他的保障真的讓他們可以匆匆忙忙啦從事這個農業工作得到更高更好的這樣保障情況之下但是這一個參與率 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12578.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12601.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
這麼樣的一個程度相對的農業人口一直在下降我覺得這個要有很大的一個討論的空間然後應該要快速應變的這個作為才可以讓農民真正感受到當時的我們在推這個政策對他們真的有一定程度的保障他們願意主動也幫我們去宣導也幫我們去邀集 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12603.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12624.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
真正的青龍也好甚至是15歲的農民來享受到這樣的一個德政才是一個正確的好的一個政策感謝魏委員的提醒我想我們會朝這個方向來看怎麼樣再更精進好 這個是不是一個月內可以提出相關的精進的計畫給委員會來做參考我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12625.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12653.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
我可以先提供就是說退休除菌的這些補助的措施有沒有的一個提升的一個設計對法條的部分因為未來會進到逐條審查那逐條審查的話看委員的想法最後的想法是怎樣對 法條是一件事情相關的獎勵對 獎勵外行給你這個我們希望可以能夠知道對 我一個月之內會提供給你對 也可以給農業部相關一些意見做參考對不對好 謝謝主席 謝謝部長應該是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12655.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12684.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
那些配套配套我會先提供對 你要先提供法因為法進來了對我們12月22號要審是你要一併然後進到我們委員會對 下次討論的時候我會把配套也會然後也會提供給委員這樣子對 法是條文是一件事情相關的配套不就是重中之重了好 了解好 謝謝師父在12月22號同步把配套一樣我會努力跟行政院爭取趕快進院會謝謝好了 謝謝好 謝謝主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12685.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12701.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
謝謝劉建國委員 謝謝部長謝謝我們這個發言的委員除不在場外其餘均已發言完畢 詢答結束委員徐欣盈 邱振軍所提書面質詢列入紀錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12702.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12704.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
那我们今天本日所讨论事项所列议程 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12722.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12747.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
農民退休處境條例第二條及第七條條文修正草案詢答完畢請行政院盡速將院板送本院我們12月22號繼續審查然後剛剛所提配套也一樣希望在12月22日審查的時候一併送進來那謝謝大家我們現在散會謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12752.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
12752.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
謝謝喔,這樣有齁,12點 |