| IVOD_ID |
17096 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17096 |
| 日期 |
2025-12-04 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-20-11 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期財政委員會第11次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
11 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期財政委員會第11次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-12-04T08:35:31+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-12-04T10:06:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
01:30:29 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/b41997f390c3528ea45cfcab5ea799a57db068076667a51bb4456b5c46cbb78c55fbbbe49cb369b45ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-12-04T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期財政委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：一、繼續審查「使用牌照稅法」29案：
(一) 行政院函請審議、本院委員邱鎮軍等19人、委員陳超明等18人、委員羅明才等20人、委員廖偉翔等19人、委員楊瓊瓔等27人、委員許宇甄等22人、委員邱若華等17人、委員林俊憲等26人、委員王鴻薇等19人、委員李彥秀等16人、委員蘇清泉等18人、委員徐欣瑩等24人、委員郭昱晴等19人、委員王美惠等19人、委員李坤城等18人、委員羅廷瑋等17人、委員郭國文等18人、委員吳沛憶等17人、委員葛如鈞等16人、委員沈發惠等17人、委員林思銘等22人、委員賴士葆等25人、委員黃健豪等20人分別擬具「使用牌照稅法第五條條文修正草案」等24案。
(二) 本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「使用牌照稅法第五條及第七條條文修正草案」案。
(三) 本院委員廖先翔等17人擬具「使用牌照稅法第五條及第三十八條條文修正草案」案。
(四) 本院委員牛煦庭等17人、委員鍾佳濱等16人分別擬具「使用牌照稅法第七條條文修正草案」等2案。
(五) 本院委員廖偉翔等17人擬具「使用牌照稅法第七條及第三十八條條文修正草案」案。
二、審查「使用牌照稅法」16案：
(一) 本院委員陳素月等21人、委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等16人、委員馬文君等16人、委員羅美玲等18人、委員顏寬恒等17人、委員林月琴等17人、委員葉元之等20人、委員徐富癸等17人、委員陳超明等16人、委員丁學忠等18人、委員張智倫等17人、委員徐巧芯等23人、委員萬美玲等18人、委員洪孟楷等19人、委員翁曉玲等18人分別擬具「使用牌照稅法第五條條文修正草案」等15案。【後1案如經院會復議，本次會議不予審查】
(二) 本院委員林思銘等23人擬具「使用牌照稅法第七條條文修正草案」案。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:35:31 - 10:06:00 |
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1566.535 |
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請主任秘書報告出席委員人數報告委員會出席委員與主法定人數現在開始開會請議事人員宣佈上次會議議事錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1579.522 |
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1600.254 |
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立法院第十一屆第四會期財政委員會第十次全體委員會議議事錄時間綜合民國一百一十四年十二月三日星期三九十一分至十二十二分地點群雄樓九樓大禮堂出席委員林德福委員等十四人列席委員鄭振全委員等八人列席官員經過委員會主委彭金榮暨所屬單位代表及保護部參事廖江憲等 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1600.954 |
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1628.832 |
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主席林昭吉委員施名報告事項宣讀商事會議事錄決定議事錄確定討論事項審查本院委員參與等16人委員牛許廷等26人分別擬據銀行法第125條及125條之4條人修正草案案等二案經委員牛許廷說明提案要者儘管會主委回應委員提案後藉由委員林德福等15人提出質詢均應儘管會同主委法務部法制司廖參事及相關人員予以答覆 |
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1629.772 |
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1655.963 |
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決議一 說明及詢討完畢二 委員質詢未及答覆或請補充資訊請金管會於一周內以順便答覆委員令要求期限則從期鎖定三 委員 邱志偉 陳玉珍 所提順便質詢列入紀錄刊登公報並請金管會以順便答覆四本院委員 蔡玉瑜等16人委員 牛許廷等26人分別擬具銀行保第125條及第125條之四條文修正草案等二案另則期繼續審查 宣讀完畢 |
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1658.055 |
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1660.544 |
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好 對 請問各位委員對議事錄有沒有意義 |
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1662.301 |
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1691.386 |
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沒有異議 我們議事錄確定民進黨團建請變更議程針對本次財政委員會全體委員會討論事項建請針列委員陳俊宇等二十人擬具使用牌照稅法第五條條文修正草案提案人有吳秉瑞 郭國文 賴慧媛 李昆城請問各位委員有沒有意見沒有意見 好那我們就針列 |
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1693.848 |
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1718.537 |
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請議事人員宣讀今日議程討論事項一繼續審查使用牌照稅二十九案一行政院函勤審議本院委員邱振軍的十九人委員陳昌明等十八人委員羅明才等二十人委員廖偉祥等十九人委員楊瓊英等二十七人委員徐宇震等二十二人委員邱若驊等十七人委員林俊憲等二十六人 |
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1719.117 |
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1738.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
王宏維19人李彥秀16人蘇清泉18人徐欣怡24人郭玉琴19人王美惠19人李昆城18人羅天惠17人郭國文18人吳佩儀17人葛如君16人沈發慧16人林思明22人 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1740.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1761.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
委員賴世保等25人 委員黃建豪等20人分別擬具使用牌照稅法第5條條文修正草案等24案二本院台灣民眾黨的很擬具使用牌照稅法第5條及第7條條文修正草案案三本院委員廖先祥等17人擬具使用牌照稅法第5條及第38條條文修正草案案四本院委員牛許廷等 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1762.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1778.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
17人委員鍾嘉碧等16人分別擬聚使用牌照稅法第7條條文修正草案案等二案5本院委員廖偉祥等17人擬聚使用牌照稅法第7條及第38條條文修正草案案2審查使用牌照稅法16案1本院委員陳樹岳等21人 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1780.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
1807.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
委員吳麗華等16人 委員盲君等16人委員羅美玲等18人 委員顏寬恆等17人委員林玉琴等17人 委員葉元之等20人委員徐富奎等17人 委員陳昌明等16人委員丁學忠等18人 委員張志倫等17人委員徐巧欣等23人 委員萬美玲等18人委員洪孟凱等19人 委員翁曉琳等18人分別擬據使用牌照稅法第5條 條文修正草案等15案 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
1807.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
1826.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
二 本院委員林世民等二十三人女俊使用牌照稅法第七條條文修正草案案三 本院委員陳俊宇等二十人女俊使用牌照稅法第五條條文修正草案案宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
1829.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
1848.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
我們本次會議安排審查行政院函請審議委員邱正軍等19人分別擬具使用牌照稅法第5條條文修正草案以及第7條條文修正草案第38條條文修正草案總共我們有 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
1851.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
1861.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
四十六案的條文內容以及含我們今天有兩個修正 共兩案我們現在預計宣讀時間五分鐘請議事人員宣讀使用牌照稅法修正草案新增十七案 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
1871.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
1900.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
委員陳樹岳等21人委員吳麗華等16人委員丁雪忠等18人委員林月琴等17人委員徐巧欣等23人委員徐富鬼等17人委員翁曉琳等18人委員張志倫等17人委員萬美玲等18人委員顏匡衡等17人委員馬文君等16人提案及委員陳俊宇等20人提案均與行政院提案相同 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
1902.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
1925.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
修正第五條第二項同行政院提案新增第三項前項自中華民國一百十五年一月一日起因免徵使用牌照稅造成直轄市及縣市政府減少之稅收應由中央能源主管機關補足之委員洪孟凱等十九人提案委員陳昌明等十六人提案委員葉元之等二十人提案均相同 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
1926.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
1943.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
委員羅美玲等18案提案修正第5條第2項條文為直轄市及縣市政府於下列期間得對完全以電能為動力之機動車輛免徵使用牌照稅並報財政部被查1.電動汽車自中華民國101年1月6日起至120年12月31日止2.電動機車自中華民國107年1月1日起至120年12月31日止 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
1953.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
1973.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
委員林士明等二十三人提案修正第七條第一項第八款部分文職刪除同一戶籍等四字宣讀完畢委員林士明等人所提修正動議第二項後段增列 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
1975.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
1995.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
直轄市及縣市政府於下列期間得對完全以電能為動力值機動車輛及與我國能源效率標示中純電行程測試值達80公里以上之油電混合動力車輛免徵使用牌照稅並報財政部被查第七條 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
1997.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2007.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
好我們現在進行委員林思明等人所提修正動議使用牌照稅法第七條條文修正動議修正第一項第八款 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2009.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2036.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
供持有身心障礙手冊或證明 並領有駕駛執照者使用 且為該身心障礙者使用所用之車輛 每人以一輛為限 因身心障礙情況致無駕駛執照者 其本人配有同一戶籍二親等以內親屬或車籍與身心障礙戶籍為同一直轄市或縣市之二親等以內親屬所有以下與行政院提案相同 宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2038.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2039.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
好 謝謝 我們現在開始協商 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2097.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2097.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
好 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2108.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2129.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
各位委員還有我們部長我想今天的修法針對使用牌照稅法第五條我們有諸多委員眾多委員提案包含邱正軍委員陳超明委員羅明財委員楊瓊英委員徐益臻委員邱若驊委員林俊憲委員王宏威委員蘇清泉委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2130.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2152.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
郭益勤委員 王美惠委員 李坤成委員 羅廷維委員 郭國文委員 吳佩奕委員 葛如君委員還有我本人 賴世保委員 黃建豪委員 陳樹業委員 吳立華委員馬文君委員 袁寬恆委員 林月琴委員 習富奎委員 丁學忠委員 張志倫委員 習巧行委員 萬美玲委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2153.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2171.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
翁曉琳委員還有台灣民眾黨團以及剛才我們曾烈成俊宇委員的提案提案同行政院提案均延至119年12月31號我想基本上對於這個貴委員的提案都是意見都一致 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2172.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2186.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
把貨物稅電動車的免稅延至119年12月31日我想委員的修法的方向都是一致的文質也差不多先請財政部對委員這個提案有沒有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2190.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2200.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
對貨物稅的部分委員大家都是沒有意見我想在牌照稅的部分行政院的版本因為對於使用電動車輛的使用牌照稅的免徵部分是到114年12月31號 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2209.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2234.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
那因此院板希望能夠再能夠延長5年到119年的12月31號那主要第一個也就是因為淨零碳排的一個願景以及以及我們考量對電動車的產業的一個支持讓他們希望能夠往這個方向來發展所以院板就提出這樣的一個的免徵使用牌照稅延長到119年12月31號這是以上的說簡單的說明好 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2238.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2242.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
那各位有沒有 還有沒有要補充針對這個延長這個案子 有沒有延長到119人 沒有問題啦這條都沒有問題來 18位沒有 延長沒有問題 大家都贊成現在是外界 我們是有聽到聲音啦這個聲音一定要反映這個稅是地方稅吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2263.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2269.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
對啊那我們現在撿這個這個地方政府在買單啦所以這個這個要去處理處理啊這個錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2278.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2294.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
不是啊 你可以不我的意思就是說不必得嘛就是給他這樣子然後我們中央要補嘛除非你這個這個採訪法這個修過以後就可以那就不要得啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2296.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2322.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
那個我想這部分是針對我們有那個稅損多少錢那個寶哥我講一下好了寶哥我講一下等一下我先跟各位委員報告好了就是有關於這個甄列第三項就剛才寶哥講的就是前項還有總共有李燕秀委員 葉英志委員習新委員 陳昭明委員洪孟凱委員等均提案延至119年12月31號沒有意見但是甄列第三項 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2324.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2351.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
第三項就是前項是中華民國115年1月1日起因貶真實用牌照稅造成直轄縣市政府減少之稅收應由中央能源主管機關補足之這個我想我們在相關宣達的時候也有很多委員做這方面的一個建議所以這第三項這個我們可能今天大家要表達一下意見來 請郭文先舉手郭文先舉手 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2354.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2377.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
吳秉堯先生好請秉瑞先詢問 詢問 請問一下在延長之前的這個所謂的之前也有減免嘛現在是要延長五年嘛那之前的減免那個稅有補嗎沒有補那之前的每一年大概是多少錢一年啦你不要給我一次算五年啦一年的 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2383.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2393.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
現在除以4的話90幾除以4 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2402.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2414.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
目前全國現在是22縣市都停徵過去4年合計90多億大概平均一年大概22到23億左右平均一年我先講我的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2418.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2444.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
地方政府得 停徵所謂得就是可以跟不可都可以 可免徵也可以不免徵但是這樣子因為這是一個延長的法案之前已經免徵了你說現在有地方政府我跟妳講說我現在不免徵嗎不會有這樣的地方政府嗎哪有這樣的地方政府但是問題是賴委員我們都在財政委會這麼久你那個財政紀律 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2447.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2470.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
那個法你以前修的時候你非常重視這個法而且你說如果造成的稅損 財源從哪裡來那個要講清楚現在這個財政收支劃分法如果照現在行政院的版本也好照已經修過的版本也好無論如何地方政府都多很多錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2471.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2491.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
而且最重要的是地方政府這些年來已經連續多少年他的整體的財政支出都是plus就都有剩餘當然他過去有負債現在還沒有完全填補完但是最近這幾年每年都是剩餘結果現在變成地方請客然後中央買單 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2492.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2503.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
那這個既然我能請客我就一定請客啊假設我們是地方的民意代表我們也是地方的首長的話我一定請客我不可能別的縣市請客我不請客啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2504.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2527.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
但是卻找中央買單中央的財政已經相對非常的困難了所以這個是不是再考量一下其實也不用一年二十幾億每一個縣市就算我新北市政府四百萬人口假設你都照人數平均我覺得幾乎是六分之一的台灣的人口二十幾億我也還有三億 四億而已 真的 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2528.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2537.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
財政收支法文法已經拿去那麼多了真的有必要再去計較這個一年三億四億嗎我是覺得這個大家互相一下啦不要 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2538.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2566.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
贏是你們的贏但是贏到貴賓贏到每個農民都要去賠好 謝謝吳秉仁委員郭文貴謝謝主席我延續吳秉仁委員所有說法地方政府接下來裁員會廣增而且是屬於中央下放的一些被動收入那也就是自主的運用的空間比以往非常的多然後現在的稅損的部分要由中央負擔這確實是需要商議的一個地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2566.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2590.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
不過就目前為止我所拿到的資料當中以新北市為例就剛剛吳秉偉講新北市的部分他預估的這個稅損的部分5年的估計居然是高達38億這個我覺得財政部要好好的審視一番為什麼因為過往的14年當中新北市的這個稅收的部分有關於這個電動車這個部分不過是11.7億 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2595.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2616.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
那為什麼未來的五年會高達38億呢我不曉得這個數字有沒有什麼問題財政部所以主要好好審視一番不能隨便說地方政府說的算這是第一第二部分如果真的需要中央的部分的話我個人建議比較是屬於用公務基金的部分來動用而不是用公務預算來動用 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2617.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2637.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
空空基金的部分的動用也會比較方便一些些因為空空基金基本上跟中央跟地方其實它有一個連帶的共同性所以這是我個人的建議 以上好 謝謝郭國文委員還有要先舉手先請廖先祥委員然後接下來李坤臣委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2638.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2654.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
好 謝謝因為我自己本身是電動車主先表達一下電動車主的一個心聲因為自己本身是電動車主所以我也不會說希望政府延長五年這件事情因為我本身我會是受惠者如果說政府真的願意延長的話當然就代替所有的電動車主感謝其實電動車主我認為所有的電動車主他 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2657.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2670.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
並不是特別在意幾年幾年這件事情而是在意課稅級距這件事情因為我們的電動車的一個課稅使用排到稅的如果以車價來看的話可能一台100萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2673.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2675.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
電動車他需要繳的使用牌照稅大概是兩三百萬的油車的一個使用牌照稅所以說很多的電動車不是不願意繳稅而是怕這個稅率它是一個不合理的所以說延長這部分當然就尊重 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2688.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2707.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
大家的一個共識只是說在延長的過程中我希望財政部在後續能夠盡快的去把電動車的一個使用牌照稅課稅的級距這件事情去跟電動車主去做一些溝通去協調我相信只要是一個合理的稅收課稅級距那所有的電動車主都會很願意的來繳納稅金以上 謝謝好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2714.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2718.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
還有哪位委員要發言沒有以坤城 坤城來 坤城謝謝主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2720.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2746.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
因為這個是延續性的一個提案那我們就是對於延長到129年大家都沒有意見那也表示說這個之前這個地方政府對於牌照稅應該都是他們都沒有收對不對都沒有收那所以說如果把這一個一個延續性的這一個法案再把它延長到129年那基本上對於地方政府來講那也是延續過去的政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2747.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2770.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
那過去都沒有收他不可能因為這樣子那就變成去收也不可能那過去沒有收也沒有對這個財政有造成什麼樣的一個影響那你突然就是說那因為這個好像是一個新的政策然後實施下去之後對於地方政府財政會有影響這不可能因為這次都是一個原系性的所以這是第一個那第二個就是說那如果這樣子的話既然是延續性的那也不用去 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2771.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2793.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
去期待說那突然因為這個政策下去之後電動車大家就突然都買電動車了然後為了要省牌照稅都買電動車也不可能所以基本上對於這一個牌照稅來講稅損的這一個就算地方政府來講沒有收到這些錢也是跟之前應該是會差不多的那一樣就財政紀律法你要掃到這些錢你的錢是從哪裡來 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2794.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
2813.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
所以其實我看這一個我們召委的就沒有提到一樣就是得對不對得得得得這個地方可以得免收我是希望說是不是我們就按照財政部的提案還是授權由地方政府來做處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
2817.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
2834.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
好 謝謝謝謝主席剛剛共領幾位委員的高見我覺得都很有道理首先對於財政紀律這個德你要實施德免徵那麼它的相對的稅損要自行來承擔這個是一個紀律的表現這個完全支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
2835.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
2841.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
既然大家對於得這個部分認為既然過去地方政府得免徵的時候他也承受了這樣的稅損也還願意繼續來實施我們尊重各地方政府的權責但是我覺得剛剛從幾個修正動議當中還是聽到了很有意義的積極性的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
2855.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
2864.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
包括剛剛向廖委員所提出的其實我們知道電動車免徵牌照稅它的目的是在目前燃油車佔比 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
2866.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
2886.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
很高的情況之下為了降低空污的排放減少環境的成本所以政府透過稅收的減免來鼓勵車主改用電動車這個趨勢我們看一下推動幾年來到底電動車的占比有沒有提高這個其實經濟部待會可以稍微回應一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
2887.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
2906.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
如果說使用牌照稅的免徵可以提高車主採用對環境比較友善的電動車那這樣的政策我相信部分中央地方都會予以支持但是呢在目前的情況之下我們看到如果說因為免徵其實在牌照稅地方政府認為他可以承擔是因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
2908.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
2926.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
使用的車主很少比如說以屏東縣來講我們的汽車使用牌照稅是地方的稅收的重要來源但是為什麼過去對於電動車免徵牌照稅好像還可以接受呢是因為實際上在我們非都的地方使用電動車的民眾 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
2927.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
2953.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
由于一些设施比如说充电桩或其他的周边服务设施还不是很普及所以一般的车主在非度地区采用意愿较低所以实际上造成的税损也相对有限但是诚如刚刚廖委员所说的如果未来的电动车越来越普及在各地方政府的使用牌照税的占比越来越高那这个税损就会产生一个压力所以合理的 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
2953.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
2974.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
合理的來說使用電動車它除了降低空污之外它仍然有其他的外部環境成本電動車除了沒有空污之外還是有其他使用道路造成地方政府它必須維修道路各項的一個負荷所以我非常肯定剛剛廖委員的說法電動車車主他願意採用電動車有他的考量就算是 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
2974.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
2989.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
停止免徵牌照稅他們還是會繼續使用但是認為牌照稅的急遽應該合理的反映在車主的負擔上所以這一點我是非常的肯定跟支持也是覺得希望說未來我們交通部這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
2991.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3015.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
這個還有財政部對於使用燃油車跟電動車他在使用牌照稅上的級距一定要納入檢討來調整但是在還沒有調整之前看起來因為電動車的普及率還不是很高所以這樣的一個得減免 免徵的優惠措施還是可以支持但是我們覺得既然支持而且過去的稅準也有限 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3016.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3028.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
多數的地方政府也能承受所以我們覺得還是把那個德制保留不過另外一個第二個我發現我們主席的提案修正動議有提到說加入了純電型就是油電車 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3031.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3055.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
那油電車我就覺得很有意義因為在從燃油到純電之間油電是一個非常過渡期的很多人的選擇那如果這個選項可以予以政策上的納入支持也有助於我們未來純電車的普及率的推動所以這一點也要再請我們經濟部就這個部分來表達意見我支持廖委員所說的縱使未來停止免增 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3056.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3076.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
使用牌照税的这样的优惠对电动车主来讲还是要去研议将它的极具与合理化不要跟燃油车有太大的差别第二个我支持我们主席的修正动议评估将油电车也考虑如果得免征使用牌照税那么油电车是不是也可以纳入的一个使用对象以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3077.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3092.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
好 謝謝鍾嘉賓委員我也提一下我的一個修正動力我這個修正動力針對油電混合車我們鼓勵這個如果說它的行駛電動驅動方式行駛80公里以上者 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3093.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3115.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
它也應該歸屬於零排放的車輛所以在國外的一個認定上面也把這種插電式的複合動力車也把它視為免徵使用牌照稅的一個車輛範圍所以到底我們要不要納入我個人有提一個修正案也謝謝宗家兵委員也認同這樣子的一個修法那現在請賴司保委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3119.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3135.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
謝謝 謝謝主席我想今天我是覺得先把結果講一下我們今天一定要送出去了否則的話他沒有辦法在那個所以就大家看怎麼樣要這些的修正東西都出去還是我們就把它做一個結論 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3138.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3158.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
那個稅的來源要不要中央我覺得這一部分來講的話我倒並沒有堅持的這個如果就是說我們過去怎麼做未來就再繼續演用這樣的精神基本上我是可以接受的但是主席講的這個油電的混合應該納入因為油電混合的這一部分這個經濟部要表示一點意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3164.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3170.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
來 請經濟部還有等一下講完葉元之委員講完再請經濟部表示意見好不好好寶根還有要講嗎沒有了請葉元之委員我想因為為了達到淨零碳排所以大家鼓勵電動車這個方向應該沒有問題是政策的方向因為淨零碳排這是屬於中央政策所以做這個事情對應該是中央提出來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3192.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3209.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
那中央提出來這樣的政策然後地方買單我覺得地方還會有疑慮以新北市來講的話剛剛從嘉賓委員有提到匯損大概38億那是因為現在一年應收本來可以收但是沒有收大概都5億左右然後如果以每年20%成長的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3211.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3229.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
這樣加上去5億 6億 7億 8億這樣加上去的話大概是38億所以這也不是一筆小錢啦所以我覺得還是必須要把地方政府裁員這個部分把它考慮進去啦 謝謝好 謝謝燕子委員那現在請經濟部針對修正動力那個油電車這部分要不要納入請再表示意見好 跟主席還有各位委員說明經濟部這邊針對油電車的部分做個簡單的回應 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3247.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3268.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
經濟部針對油電車的部分簡單做個回應第一個交通部主政的淨零轉型12項關鍵策略裡面目前針對運具電動化還有無碳化這一個項目是以電動車為主要的項目目前並沒有涵蓋油電車在過去訂定這樣子的政策之前 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3269.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3289.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
最主要的原因第一個是目前國外的補助趨勢基本上就是朝向電動車的補助油電車的補助是慢慢在退場當中第二個是針對國內的產業的部分國內目前的整車業者是沒有投入所謂80公里以上的國產插電式油電混合車 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3291.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3301.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
所以這個部分如果是鼓勵下去的話基本上都是國外的車輛的受惠目前是沒有國內生產的業者以上做補充報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3312.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3328.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
副署長 交通部的數據截至今年9月那種車很少大概僅佔我們新車銷售率的不到就0.5都不到 0.43平均每個縣市大概我們算一下大概50台而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3329.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3348.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
所以這不會造成明顯的各縣市的一個稅損所以這部分我是認為因為我們認為說這個油電混合車在現在來講的話也很多的這個車主就是鼓勵他開因為這個對於我們的節能排灘淨營排灘還是有幫助的而且他造成的稅損不多 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3349.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3372.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
所以我是希望經濟部能夠考量就是在現在沒有辦法完成這種純電車的一個狀況之下稅損也不是沒有那麼大是不是可以考量請 吳秉仁委員我如果數據真的是這麼少的話而且要不要給那減免也是由地方政府決定那只要不要補稅 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3373.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3399.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
這個我們當然支持因為地方政府他有決定的權利那他決定了假設我是新北市長我說退一萬部獎我假設我是新北市長我一年為了我新北市撿100台200台的車輛的牌照稅然後可以達到這個目的我不會因為這樣斤斤計較說叫中央政府給我補一兩百萬的這個稅新北市政府現在今年的預算是2500億 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3402.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3426.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
所以我是覺得說是不是如果贊成昭緯跟賴四胞委員黃珊珊委員的提案但是不要斤斤計較說稅要哪裡補因為已經連續幾年新北市政府的財政最後的結算都是Plus這個是有數據可查的好不好好 謝謝經理部賴市長好 謝謝朱惠文的指導 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3427.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3448.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
那針對推動低碳化特別是在因應氣候變遷那電動車事實上它有助於改善空污或是減碳的這個部分那過去如何實施那這次院版也提出來的剛剛有提到的說是油電的這個部分當時訂定這個德就是依照地方政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3448.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3470.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
各地的這個情況不一樣因為有的縣市它城鄉差距是相當的龐大的那必須要有配套措施在這邊也要跟組委員報告事實上依照氣候變遷因應辦法各地方政府他就要提出他氣候變遷的推動方案那若是大家地方政府認為他這個是 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3472.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3490.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
一致的目標全世界認為也是應該如此的話他應該就會納進去這是第一點的補充第二點的補充事實上我的委員提案的版本由中央能源主管機關來指引坦白跟主委委員講我們能源署它的業務費 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3491.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3509.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
它只有不到2億事實上根本沒有辦法來支付這些龐大的這些地方政府得的這個所謂的稅損的部分這個是實際上是有困難的好 次長了解那現在請宗嘉病院委員再補充好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3510.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3529.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
主席在場各位委員先進我們列協機關聽起來多數的意見是傾向說維持原來的德把時間延長但是考慮到油電車未來也具有跟電動車一樣值得我們免徵牌照稅的這樣的一個鼓勵 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3530.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3542.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
是不是我看到主席的修正動議容我表達一點再修正的看法因為主席目前的條文它是在第二項的第三行在完全以電能為動力之機動車輛後面有一個級 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3548.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3572.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
這樣的話會造成地方政府他對於純電車給免徵好像就連帶著對於油電車也得給免徵因為油電車跟電動車在各縣市政府的分配比例不太一樣 數量不太一樣是不是說把這樣的一個好意放在把給予我國能源效率飆升的那一整段到最後的油電混合動力車輛那一整段 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3572.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3587.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
放到最後的第三項第三項說我國能源效率標示中純電行程測試值達80公里以上之油電混合車輛得比照辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3588.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3603.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
那這樣的話呢放在第三項的時候呢讓地方政府大概判斷如果延續著既有的對電動車的免徵牌照稅的優惠他就按照我們目前修法的方式他可以持續的進行但是第三項他可以評估他 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3604.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3628.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
縣市轄內的油電車的數量它要不要給它比照那給地方這種一個衡量的餘地那這樣我們可以看得出來油電車有沒有得到這個鼓勵有沒有改變這也比較好就是兩項不要並列我知道 以上好 謝謝宗教兵委員各位委員我想我們這個第五條大家也充分討論我想我就做一個結論好不好那第五條是 我們就 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3633.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3651.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
所有的46位委員所提的一個46案單列的46案第5條那個部分還有我的一個修正動議拉里斯巴委員的第三項的修正動議這部分我們就是全數保留送出委員會去請對 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3661.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3666.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
那個就請那個我們財政部這邊你們到時候就提出一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3668.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3678.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
好不好 大家有沒有意見都放在第三項 因為文字都一樣啦剛剛各委員的意見我們都尊重第一個剛剛各委員提到就是那個有關那個稅率的級距這個部分我們想我們再來我們來檢討那第二個就是我們我們召委所提到的就是對於油電混合的所以我想這涉及到經濟部剛剛經濟部也講得很清楚他的目標是以全電動電能為動力的車輛 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3694.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3698.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
要鼓勵這個油電混合是一個過渡型的一個做另外就是國內也整車業者也沒有投入這樣的一個插電式的複合動力車的開發跟生產國內的車輛沒有這樣放進去是不是要再回頭鼓勵他們做部長我算你的意思了你不用講太多了我想我們這樣決定好不好是 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3721.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
3742.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
這個部分因為大家還有意見部會還有意見啦所以這部分我們還是送出去我們送協商好不好還是送出去啦協商的時候部會你再提出你的這個修正的條文看怎麼樣 包含剛剛中交兵委員這個我覺得都可以把它納入你們未來在條文修正在協商的時候都可以提出來好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
3743.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
3759.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
來 我支持主席的一個結論畢竟就趕快給他送出去然後因為這裡面還有各縣市的意見也要進來也對油電的事實上油電也沒那麼緊張全台灣只有一千多部而已也不是很嚴重 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
3760.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
3780.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
一千多而已啊 怎麼沒有一千多而已啊一千一百多台而已啊一千一百多台而已啦就這麼多而已啦到今年九月為止80公里 還加一個80公里的啦就是因為數量少會變成說是不是會特定對象那個我們請部會有沒有請部會跟經濟部 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
3787.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
3806.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
不僅僅經濟部還有地方政府也要有意見下次協商的時候我們拟據一個比較具體可行的條文好不好所以我這個數量到底有多少這個數量到底有多少來 坤仔因為這討論很久了我們就請財政部 會同經濟部 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
3808.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
3830.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
還有環境部我們到時候送協商的時候拟據一個比較可行的條文但是也要當心說是不是因為這個數量其實不多會變成說是特定的一些進口車輛這個要注意所以我請財政部你們去延上一下因為油電其實沒有你們講得那麼嚴重 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
3833.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
3845.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
對 所以你們對委員的意見我們送協商的時候我還是希望你們拟據一個可以的條文 好不好好 第五條我們就全案保留送協商OK 好好 現在我們開始討論第七條 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
3852.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
3875.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
第七條有台灣民眾黨團的提案還有牛委員的廖偉祥委員鍾嘉斌委員還有我本席的先請民眾黨團還是來 請黃珊珊委員謝謝主席我想第七條的部分我們主要還是提出了有關身心障礙長照的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
3877.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
3893.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
那剛剛講的延長電動車我想大家都有共識只是裁員怎麼來但是接下來我們是民眾黨的提案是針對身心障礙目前是免稅但是其實國內有非常多的長照家庭他其實也有很多長照身心失能的長輩 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
3894.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
3911.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
那這些它的確是有需要因為現在從各地方政府的狀況也有民眾反映包括各地的縣市政府他們很多的民眾抱怨長照交通車的數量不夠甚至提前一個禮拜預約每個禮拜一就要準時八點鐘打電話 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
3913.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
3927.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
那縣市政府也很為難像嘉義市他就說經費不足找不到司機所以沒有辦法增加班次所以類似這樣子的長照需求他因為地方政府的確有在 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
3928.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
3952.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
努力但是可能在長照相關的出門運送的部分的確是有他的量能不足的問題所以我們還是希望提出有關家裡有長照失能的人他也有可能在他的排稻稅上有接送他的這些親屬的車輛可以比照身心障礙者的相關的免稅規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
3953.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
3980.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
進行相關的免稅當然我們知道這是地方稅所以應該會影響地方的財源所以整體來說應該還是在衛福部長照3.0明年就要上路那接下來的3.0能不能夠支應更多的所謂的運送量能社區式的交通接送或者是說就醫的交通接送如果這兩個增加的話我想這個稅金的部分就可以cover掉也就是說由中央來 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
3980.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
3998.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
Cover這些相關免稅的部分那我們認為說社區的照顧尤其長照杯葛不斷的上演那我們怎麼樣增加長照的家庭他的負擔這是民眾黨提案的目的但我們還是希望說也是希望能夠幫地方政府Cover掉他的所謂的稅損那我們這是一個初步的 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4002.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4027.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
初步的意見但是相關的細節我想今天大家我們提出來那各單位他們也都會有不同的意見那我們至少要做到讓衛福部跟財政部必須要針對強化富康巴士跟長照交通車的量能如何減輕長照家庭接送負擔整體的計畫要提出他們具體完善的方式那這個部分台灣民眾黨希望能夠在今天的會議裡面有一個至少 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4028.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4035.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
再做一個附帶決議還有讓他們能夠在這上面能夠表達財政部跟衛福部的立場謝謝好 那個鍾嘉斌委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4039.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4067.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
其實這一點我們看很多人提案精神都是相同的就是過去原條文當中在第八款它對於身心障礙手冊或證明那麼這個部分我們做了很多的一些擴充的補充的一些規定我的提案內容是這樣子我們原條文它這裡是說必須是他是身心障礙者那麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4068.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4076.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
他是他零有駕駛執照的他的車輛一人為限那如果是無駕駛執照的話那麼他的配偶或 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4077.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4099.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
同一戶籍的二親等以內也可以來試用但事實上我們要了解現在的少子化其實它這裡限定的二親等以內其實就是子女或者是尊親屬那尊親屬不太可能比你更老的來幫你開這個車尤其是長輩如果是65歲的長輩所以我這邊的修正意見是說如果是身心障礙而且是65歲以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4101.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4117.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
他的二親等之內已經沒有尊親屬可以來幫他代為駕駛他事實上需要靠他的卑親屬但是卑親屬如果他是沒有子女的那可能就會由兄弟姊妹的子女也就是他的這個生侄輩的來協助他 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4117.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4139.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
那这时候二清等的限制呢就会局限到这些协助者那刚刚黄委员说的很好因为各地方政府的这个富康巴士的供应啊还没有办法来满足每一个身障者的需求如果身障者本身没有驾照那富康巴士的数量又不足其实这些二清等以外有同一户籍的 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4141.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4160.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
親屬 被親屬他們是很好的協助政府來分攤這些公共資源的也就是說如果這些他的家人願意幫忙反而我們在復康巴士有限的情況之下還是可以滿足這些無駕照的生長者他行的需求所以我是原則上我是支持黃山委員的意見他是把它放到長照 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4161.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4187.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
那我這裡是就原條文身心障礙者 無駕照者那麼同一戶籍內不以二親等為限那這個至於要怎麼樣去認定我們希望是由主管機關來認定不要在親等上把它限得那麼死我再強調一次如果是65歲以上的二親等內除了尊親屬之外如果沒有子女 沒有卑親屬的話他可能要看到兄弟姊妹的子女來協助照顧他 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4188.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4210.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
那這個情況之下呢我們可能是希望說能夠將這個輕等的限制放寬後由主管機關去定之保留一個彈性 以上說明好 謝謝崇嘉賓委員請吳秉榮委員先不要誤會輕等二輕等以內就是親兄弟姐妹也可以不一定是背親屬不一定是兄弟的子女現在的駕照是合法70歲以後才要多一些檢查嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4217.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4245.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
所以假設一個70歲的身障者他需要協助他的弟弟 他的妹妹如果跟他同戶籍也是可以用現在一個最大的問題就是去認定的量能問題如果你擴大 那美其名照顧但是你要小心 我們台灣是這樣子我們以前常常被媒體批評說要開Benz去領社會救濟 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4247.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4261.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
那這個你如果在這個地方沒有辦法有這樣量能實質查核或是要互集放在一起事實上我住在汐止我可能那個身障者在新莊我可能我這個就可以這樣減免了 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4262.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4291.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
當然這個弊端是可以透過訪視 調查實質認定但是問題是這樣你要增加多少公務人員增加多少能力地方政府有這樣負擔的能力嗎中央政府的國稅局有這樣的能力嗎我們公務員非常你要了解說實話要積增的成本是非常的高我個人是認為是這樣子原有的條文是要協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4293.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4319.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
這個身障者那戶籍相同然後原來的條件我覺得是合理你如果一放寬那真的是不得了因為台灣的居住遷徙是自由的然後民法的規定住所跟戶籍所在地那是可以任意變成我叫到戶政機關去做一個登記就可以了所以有可能是如果你這個門一開 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4321.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4350.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
那會增加非常多人那問題是我們又沒有實質查訪的能力那怎麼辦呢所以這部分是不是請財政部跟這個衛福部來談一下你有這個量能或是你有這個能力去做這樣的事情我想先聽各位委員的意見現在請賴會員委員好 謝謝主席我想再重新檢討就是車輛的使用別這一部分第七條的第一項我有一個建議就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4351.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4367.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
我認為我們沒有充分反映新型態車輛的使用使用的一個方式那我建議就是在修正的方向是不是應該新增就是共享車輛還是說平台的硬具像Uber這些比較新式的 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4368.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4393.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
就是这一些平台的硬具我特别要强调的就是说其实台湾很多的偏乡尤其老人化我们长照用了很多的一个地方政府用了很多的一个投资其实是在偏乡那我们是不是应该把农用的那个GG还有农村小型车辆的一个分类就像农村常用的那个ATV那种 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4394.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4416.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
那個農村那個農業搬運車那他使用的方式其實是跟一般那個一般道路的那個車子是不一樣的可是他沒有被明確的納管那我是建議就是說比照農機的一個免稅低稅那把它分類把它分類的很清楚以上是我的一個建議好 謝謝賴會員委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4419.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4447.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
请李坤 陈昭伟谢谢主席其实我们当然都希望要来照顾身心障碍者可是我刚才听就是说第一个我们是认定的问题就是说认定我们需要增加多少的一些能力来认定就是说你有可能是你没有跟他住在一起你可能也可能不是实际的照顾者这个都会发生问题所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4448.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4462.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
這一個財政部才會說是用同一戶籍第二個就是說其實這個是需要衛福部來做協助的就是各地方政府的這一個社會局或是說衛生局要怎麼樣來做協助我覺得這是相當重要的因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4464.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4487.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
這個會更貼近就是說使用者他的需求因為相近各個縣市政府他們的社會局或是衛生局都有相關的資料對於這一些身心障礙車輛的派遣我想說未來地方政府應該是可以做得更多我是建議就是說是不是還是保留這一個原來的條文以上說明請務必委員再補充 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4493.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4514.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
我用很簡短的補充就是現在的身心障礙者我舉個例子我如果開一個比較生病的開一個比較重的刀我在復原期間其實我也可以申請身心障礙所以你如果這樣子的話那個範疇會過得很大所以這個要提醒一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4516.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4542.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
因為我本席 我自己也有一個提案就一個修正動力我針對無照駕駛的這些身心障礙者提供原本的條文講二親等以內的親屬要同一戶籍我認為說因為現在同一戶籍很多的子女少子化的這種社會如果你把他限縮一定要同一戶籍有些子女他比如說就剛才講的 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4543.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4558.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
他父母住在假設新莊他又到那個比如中永和買房子但是他新買房子他一定要設在他買的房子裡面但是他每天都會去接送他的孩子接送他的父母親所以這種情況一定要 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4560.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4576.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
限制說一定要同意戶籍可能跟現在的社會的這個實際的情況不一樣所以我做一個修正動議就是說我們對於這個不用一定要在涉及同意戶籍就是如果說它的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4579.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4600.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
是這個車輛他的車籍與身心障礙者的戶籍為同一直轄室或縣市之二親等營內的親屬也可以適用就是說他只要依照他的車籍去做判斷我是有這樣一個修正同意現在就請財政部這邊針對剛才大家的一個提案說明做整體的回應好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4610.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4612.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
謝謝委員我想這裡大家都認為對於身心障礙的朋友因為他沒有辦法身體的狀況沒辦法持有一輛車或者沒有辦法駕照而需要有人來照顧然後這個車有人在親屬來照顧 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4627.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4630.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
這個親屬的車輛是供身心障礙朋友來做使用我想這是一個前提只是說怎麼認定就是說我的車而我是供身心障礙的親屬來做使用因此在過程當中也經過歷次修法 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4644.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4650.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
也就是說在認定上不要讓我們的激增食物激增的同仁在認定上不要產生這個他困擾他困難度確實他在食物認定上他會產生困難因此在歷次的修法裡面在100最近一次是在103年6月的時候才把它修成其本人配偶或同一戶籍二親等以內所有 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4665.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4679.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
這個目的其實就是在於核食上有激增食物上的困難因此做這樣的一個規定那這個部分如同剛剛各位委員也說的牌照稅是屬於地方稅那地方激增機關在免徵這樣的一個牌照稅的時候它在食物執行上認定上有沒有困難 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4684.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4690.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
食物上如果不是這麼好認定而對到時候會造成它是不是業務上的一些風險我覺得這個要考慮我們大家都知道因為可以這樣就是說我們確實知道身心障礙朋友他需要有人幫忙他可是也要考慮到稅收的一個公平性造成我們激增同仁產生食物執行的一個困難我覺得這個是要同時考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
4709.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
4716.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
我想在地方政府的部分其實也可以容許他們可以去表達一下意見因為在食物執行是他們在做的衛福部吳副市長來表達你的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
4730.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
4749.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
好那因為剛剛前面很多委員都有提到說未來在長照3.0或者是現在我們還是會要持續強化有關於交通資源的一些部件所以我們在特約這些交通接送的單位的時候其實我們會擴大這些多元特約的方向包含是說這些客運業者或者是 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
4750.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
4771.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
租赁业者或者是一些计程车客运服务业这些其实我们都有把它纳进来还有就是说针对原偏乡的部分我们也会针对这些车辆有购车的相关补助还有就是说现行的部分也有针对我们的服务提供单位它如果是投入我们长照交通接送的时候现行的法规也有做免征牌照税 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
4772.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
4793.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
車輛的這些相關的規定那未來就是在我們服務提供的時候還是會透過我們的社區整合性服務中心去強化相關的一些交通的銜接然後我們現在也有跟交通部這邊合作相關的一些預約的系統去做一些整合讓地方政府在派車輛的時候那可以去做更好的整合跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
4793.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
4821.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
多元共成的一些排班那這個部分我們還是會在長照的議題上面會持續努力那至於說有關於稅法修訂的部分我們還是尊重會上的這邊討論然後跟財政部這邊的一些評估以上好 吳秉瑞委員我很感佩我們主席還有各位委員想要照顧這個身心障礙者的這個心情這個我們照顧弱勢是本來大家就應該做的事情但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
4822.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
4839.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
如果說因為主席剛剛提到說因為現在單一戶籍的或是說少子化的狀況使得父母親跟子女可能戶籍不相同然後所以你希望說要把那個戶籍的限制拿掉那這個戶籍限制拿掉一拿掉之後就產生一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
4841.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
4857.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
所有的身心障礙者他2000等以內的親屬全部都免拍照稅了因為我戶籍不用限制所以假設我的2000等以內有一個人是身心障礙者我的車子就可以去申請說我這個拍照稅都免拍照稅 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
4863.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
4880.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
現在一個問題是剛剛其實部長講的我覺得我把它講到最極端我們念法律的人喜歡把例子舉到極端你就可以知道那問題會產生在哪裡你這個公務員如果因為這樣來申請你跟他同意的時候後來發現實質上不符 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
4881.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
4907.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
事實上他根本也沒有照顧他然後他就是也住不住在一起結果他這個牌照稅被核准的時候這個公務員以後是要跑地檢署跑法院的可能這個公務員他起先是他有可能是可能沒有去這麼仔細的認定或是說他就是比較粗心大意也沒有認定你來申請我就給你過了 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
4908.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
4930.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
這將來有可能要跑法院了所以我們真的是需要為公務員想一下你那個如果放得太寬然後又沒有一個很明確的標準它除了量能不足之外還有法律風險我覺得部長剛剛很客氣沒有把這部分講得很清楚因為我以前當法官所以我知道會有這個問題存在所以是不是再考量一下好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
4931.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
4947.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
我想針對第7條部分聽大家的意見是不是第7條我們就繼續留在我們委員會好不好38條日期的規定我們也是黃珊珊委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
4952.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
4980.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
主席我想跟剛剛大家的意見都差不多嘛所以我這邊可能要想要提一個附帶決議是請衛福部跟財政部在兩個月之內提出強化復康巴士跟長照交通車量能跟減輕長照家庭監送負擔的計劃等一下我請大家簽一下那我等一下再補上來三個月可以啊我來反正就是我們希望的是解決問題啦主要是有人真的是沒有辦法有出門的機會對 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
4982.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
4999.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
可以嗎 那個參謀附帶決議可以啊 三個月好對對好對啦 一起連署那我就編我們就宣告了OK等一下 等一下過了 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5002.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5013.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
出去那個第五層我們就出去那四次案先去加兩個修正案一起去四次案那個就還要不要卸傘要卸傘有電啦還有你那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5026.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5028.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
有點啦 有點的要協商啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5044.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5045.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
你協商的時候你再去講 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5065.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5080.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
好 那我就去幫你們趕快送出去我就幫你送出去你到那對修這個我們先看一下如果經濟是他們因為這個本來是他們來的他希望我們行的我們尊重他的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5082.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5108.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
還有地方政府啊地方政府一定都說不要的那你也要尊重台啊我跟你講地方政府一毛不拔沒有啦 你要尊重 拔不拔不回事啦你還是得尊重他們的經驗我會根據我的經驗 問的結果我知道我知道 我只是問的結果 結果都一樣頂多有兩個政治層比較有良心政治認識 感覺 其他的都是不管 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5110.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5125.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
那明年就開始試用了阿媽熊就可以試用了多好啊 大家好開心喔很多人真的都打電話來問 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5138.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5148.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
不是 委員那個沒有說出生優惠沒有說保到每一個人都夠的啦對阿 對阿而且那個不用實際請看護來來來 我跟你講一個年輕人公共保護護護護護護護護護護護護 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5166.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5191.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
他就不跟我們辦啊,連家人都不跟我們辦,他說叫我們錢,他就叫我們錢跟他辦,所以我們就不跟他辦。你給我一張。我跟你講,他連帖子都不給我們。他沒有,他沒有,他沒有,他沒有,他沒有,他沒有,他沒有,他沒有,他沒有, |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5198.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5217.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
這裏面是一間餐廳,一間餐廳的中間是一間餐廳的餐廳。 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5221.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5225.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
好 各位委員我們現在協商完成先請議事人員宣讀協商結論 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5228.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5253.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
宣讀使用牌照稅協商結論第五條保留送院會協商處理第七條及第38條令擇期待審查宣讀通過附帶決議案請衛福部及財政部於三個月內提出強化復康八四及長照交通車輛能及減輕長照家庭接送負責之計劃提案委員黃珊珊 王世堅 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5255.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5275.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
賴會員 李昆成 林思明 賴世保 吳秉瑞 郭國文等宣讀完畢請問各位委員對協商結論有異議沒有那我們本次會議做如下決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5279.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5304.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
行政院韓勤審議本院委員邱振鈞等19人委員陳超明等18人委員羅明才等20人委員廖偉祥等19人委員楊瓊英等27人委員徐以珍等22人委員邱若驊等17人委員林俊憲等26人委員王宏威等19人委員李彥秀等16人委員蘇清泉等18人 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5304.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5333.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
委員徐欣盈等24人委員邱益勤等19人委員王美惠等19人委員李坤澄等18人委員羅廷瑋等17人委員郭國文等18人委員吳佩儀等17人委員葛如君等16人委員沈發慧等17人委員林思明等22人委員賴世保等25人委員黃劍豪等20人委員陳素月等21人委員吳麗華 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5335.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5351.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
等十六人委員馬文君等十六人委員羅美玲等十八人委員顏寬恒等十七人委員林月琴等十七人委員葉元之等二十人委員徐富奎等十七人委員陳超明等十六人 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5351.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5373.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
委員丁學忠等18人委員張志倫等17人委員習巧欣等23人委員萬美玲等18人委員洪孟凱等19人委員翁曉琳等18人委員陳俊宇等20人分別擬具使用牌照稅法第五條修正草案等40案 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5375.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5400.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
以及委員林世民委員賴世寶所提第五條修正動議均已審查完略並按擬據審查報告提報提報院會討論院會討論前交由黨團協商院會討論時有本席補充說明請問各位委員對以上決議有異議沒有異議我們通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5405.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5413.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
對於台灣民眾黨團擬拒使用牌照稅法第五條及第七條條文修正草案委員廖先祥等17人擬拒 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5417.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5442.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
委員廖先祥等17人擬拒使用牌照稅法第5條及第38條條文修正草案委員牛許廷等17人委員鍾嘉秉等16人委員林思敏等23人分別擬拒使用牌照稅法第7條條文修正草案等3案委員廖偉祥等17人擬拒使用牌照稅法第7條及第38條條文修正草案令則其繼續審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5446.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5454.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
請問各位委員對以上決議有異議我們今天的會議就到此為止 我們散會 |