| IVOD_ID |
17092 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17092 |
| 日期 |
2025-12-03 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-36-13 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第13次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
13 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第13次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-12-03T08:40:00+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-12-03T12:04:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
03:24:00 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/8d241381c4f8c7fc66a919a0b9b1b1fb00b57755c699d241b4456b5c46cbb78c95462b8d564949cc5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-12-03T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：邀請法務部部長、司法院副秘書長就「民法繼承編特留分制度之檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
【12月3日及4日兩天一次會】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:40:00 - 12:04:00 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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報告委員會初期委員10人已足法定人數請主席宣布開會好現在開會那麼我們先進行報告事項請宣讀上次的會議議事錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1221.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1245.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
立法院第11屆第4會期司法及法治委員會第12次全體委員會議議事錄時間中華民國114年11月27日星期四上午93分至11時48分地點本院紅樓302會議室出席委員陳培宇委員等11人請假委員黃國昌委員1人列席委員鄭天才委員等7人列席官員司法院少年及家事廳廳 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1246.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1267.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
家事廳廳長鍾宗林等人主席莊交集委員瑞雄報告事項一 宣讀上次會議議事錄決定確定二 邀請司法院副秘書長法務部次長教育部次長衛生福利部次長內政部警政署等就陳少功犯如何解願檢警協作與社政教育體系整合測定展望進行專題報告並備質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1269.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1284.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
本次會議有委員陳培宇等11人提出質詢委員林慶琦提出書面質詢決定一 報告及詢答完畢二 委員質詢時要求提供相關資料或以書面答覆者請相關機關盡速送交個別委員及本會宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1291.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1313.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
好那現在接著呢我先介紹到場的委員首先介紹黃國昌委員好謝謝然後接著呢還有我們今天應邀的這個列席官員那麼主要是法務部的鄭明堅政部長還有司法院的王梅英副秘書長好謝謝好的那麼其餘沒有介紹的列席代表就請參院名單 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1314.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1340.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
本席不再逐一的介紹並且列入公報紀錄那麼本次議程的排定主要是針對民法繼承偏特留份制度的檢討來進行專題報告以及詢答好 那麼我們現在就先進行報告那每位發言時間三分鐘機關代表報告完畢之後呢我們會再將書面內容列入公報紀錄錄並請各位參閱好 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1344.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1347.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
那麼我們首先先請法務部的鄭明謙部長進行報告 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1352.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1378.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
主席 各位委員 各位女士 先生今天奉邀列席貴委員會就民法繼承篇特留分制度之檢討代表本部列席報告並被諮詢報告如下進行指教特留分的制度是保護法定繼承而對被繼承之遺族自由加以限制的制度立法目的是將遺產一部分保留給近親的家族以保障生活的必要尤其社會政策的考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1379.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1402.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
那為應現代民法以朝向財產自由的一個趨勢本部在105年拟據民法繼承篇草案修正特留分的規定降低現有特留分的一個比例當時草案與大院審議時各界商對代位繼承降低特留分的比例兄弟姊妹法定繼承人地位及其特留分祖母母的特留分保障不同 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1403.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1431.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
战北之身份障碍者的议题能有不同的意见那法界对特留分的议题看法不一有认为应保留兄弟姐妹特留分以减少家庭冲突难以有人认为需要尊重与主自由让被继承充分处分个人财产甚至民法是否要有特留分的规定都在讨论的范围内那德国 瑞士 日本 韩国有相关外国的立法律子女配偶 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1432.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
1451.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
及父母都有特留份的一個規定但考量該等親屬生活保障必要及撫養義務延長的立法目的其中韓國原有兄弟姊妹的特留份的制度在2024年經韓國憲法法院宣告違憲立即私下為依 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
1453.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
1469.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
韓國憲行民法子女配偶及父母能有特留分的規定那為因應高齡化及少子化的趨勢並考量近年我國社會及家庭環境的變動以及了解與我國鄰近日本修正繼承法規 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
1470.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
1496.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
繼承法規定及施行的經驗本部於今年14年4月為請學者專家做一個繼承篇的檢討的修正那預計在今年12月底前提出是提出研究報告後本部要儘速啟動修法程序那各界對特留分的置入議題有不同的意見那本部認為應妥適權衡各方權益使能找出最佳的修法方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
1497.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
1523.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
本部持開放的態度 將於明年啟動研修會議 徵詢學者專家意見討論後再決定最終的修法方向以上報告敬請主席各位委員指教好 謝謝那麼由於議事錄之前已經宣讀完畢了 還沒有確定所以我們現在就先確定議事錄那麼請問各位 上次會議的議事錄有沒有錯誤 或者是遺漏 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
1525.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
1531.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
沒有的話那麼我們就議事錄確定接下來我們再請司法院的王梅英副秘書長報告 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
1539.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
1566.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
主席 各位委員 各位先生 大家早安本院奉邀前來貴委員會本人僅代表就民法繼承偏偏特留份制度之檢討提出報告深感榮幸敬請指教特留份它是規範被繼承人他在繼承開始的時候他必須保留他的遺產一定比例給繼承人制度目的是在調和財產處分自由 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
1566.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
1595.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
还有遗嘱自由他和法定继承人利益保护呢避免被继承人直接把全部的遗产赠予他人不顾配偶与子女等家庭成员不但违背道义亦可能造成继承人陷入生活困顿为此呢现行民法第1223条明定直系血清悲亲属父母与配偶兄弟姐妹及祖父母等法定继承人的特留份 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
1597.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
1618.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
但是從比較法的角度觀察特留份制度先進國家幾乎沒有保障兄弟姊妹特留份的立法例如德國 日本僅保障配偶直系寫親尊親屬特留份未及於兄弟姊妹瑞士也是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
1619.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
1637.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
此外呢韓國憲法法院在113年作成的判決認定韓國民法中有關於保障兄弟姐妹的特留份規定違憲民法第1223條特留份規定呢它是制定在民國19年迄今社會環境家庭觀念還有結構都已經有顯著變遷 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
1640.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
1665.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
親屬間的情感與依附關係也有不同特留份制度的適用範圍自已重新審視實務上就曾發生被繼承人沒有子女父母生前也已經預立了遺囑指定由配偶繼承全部遺產可是繼承開始之後兄弟姐妹主張特留份受侵害行使扣減權結果配偶不只因為分割遺產不能夠繼續居住在該 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
1669.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
1692.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
房屋甚至成立無權佔有另外需按相當於租金計算的數額來償還其他兄弟姐妹繼承人是否合理也疏直參考眾上本院對此尊重主管機關權責還有大院審查的決定以上報告敬請指教 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
1696.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
1718.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
好 謝謝王副秘書長的報告那麼我們接下來就開始進行詢答本會委員詢答時間為8分鐘必要時候可以延長2分鐘非本會委員詢答時間為5分鐘並不再延長那麼我們上午10點半就截止發言登記首先先請登記第一位的黃國昌委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
1723.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
1748.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
主席好 我們來有請部長 副秘書長有請部長 副秘書長委員早兩位早國人對於詐騙深惡痛絕我想最簡單的一個基本的觀念洩漏偵查中一秘密的文書是不是違法 部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
1753.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
1776.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
這個委員這個簡報有寫了對 它是不是違法我想這個是不是洩漏偵查中的秘密文書我想這個如果有的話那個檢察官會如果依照告訴高發貨指揮仔細我想會立案來處理OK 好 非常好喔但問題是啦 大家現在看不懂啦我們的政府說要打詐 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
1778.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
1807.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
結果檢察官是不是有鼓勵他的男朋友參與詐騙集團這是另外一回事但是針對在詐騙中偵查的案件利用檢察官內部查詢的系統去查相關偵查中因秘密的文書這件事情去年6月11號媒體報導了以後陶檢說沒有影響偵查也沒有影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
1809.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
1821.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
也沒有涉及妨礙秘密但問題來了我上一次質詢過了以後我看到這個新聞稿我有點沒辦法相信我去年6月12號質詢結果桃園地檢署發了一個新聞稿說什麼說呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
1827.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
1852.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
這位檢察官有沒有涉及刑事不法他們在去年6月12號已經另外分案偵辦一定會秉公處理 嚴正執法 絕不護短秉公處理 嚴正執法 絕不護短結果呢 結果沒想到啊所謂的秉公處理 嚴正執法 絕不護短今年年初啊 偷偷簽結了 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
1855.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
1874.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
今年年初偷偷簽結了自己內部簽結了社會大眾通通都不知道等到什麼等到檢察官評鑑委員會進行評鑑的時候有四位評鑑委員直接在協同意見書裡面講啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
1876.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
1891.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
說這不是只有移情職務法院處理而已啊這個已經是涉及到刑法132條洩漏國防以外的秘密罪請問桃園地檢署這樣子牽結法務部的立場是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
1894.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
1923.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
法務部的立場認為這位吳雅芝檢察官已經不適合當檢察官所以我們是不是適合當檢察官是職務法庭的事嘛決議及協同意見部分我們就含情這部分我們就是絕對不會負擔絕對不會負擔現在就已經簽結啦主張免除檢察官的職務啦這兩回事啦我們在職務法庭處理他適不適合檢察官這我沒有意見啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
1924.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
1937.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
我有意見的是什麼桃園地檢署告訴全國人民嚴正執法絕不護短結果偷偷摸摸自己牽結牽結是什麼概念 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
1938.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
1961.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
甚至不用讓高檢署看欸偷偷摸摸自己牽結心虛成這個樣子這麼明確在偵查當中告訴代理人就是被害人他提出的書狀利用檢察官的查詢系統查出來提供給詐騙集團的律師可以這樣幹喔這樣沒有違法喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
1962.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
1980.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
我看不懂了啦我現在已經完全看不懂了這麼明確的違法我們的桃園地檢署竟然簽結我講一句不客氣的根本不僅僅是在官官相護是在包庇自家人犯罪所以我才問部長法務部的立場是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
1985.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
1993.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
這個不管是我們認為吳雅芝的一個行為非常的不妥所以這部分我再重申就是我們認為應該免除檢察官的職務 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
1996.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2002.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
剛剛我們已經講過了嘛 這部分不用討論嘛現在我在處理的是刑事責任的問題嘛這種事情可以牽結喔非常的好 非常的好記得 記得你今天說過的話來 我繼續啊 帶給大家看啊大家問桃園地檢署 你們為什麼牽結啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2026.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2037.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
桃園地檢署完美的示範什麼叫問A答B啊人家問他說你為什麼牽結牽結是刑事訴訟的概念結果他的回答是我們已經送職務法庭了 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2038.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2059.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
跟院長 跟部長今天回答的方式一模一樣人家問你憑什麼簽結刑事訴訟為什麼簽結他的答案是 我已經送職務法庭了包庇自家人犯罪啊 到這種程度權利在你們手上嘛愛怎麼搞就怎麼搞啊大家拿你們沒皮條啊 沒有關係接下來請司法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2063.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2087.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
行政院院長卓榮泰說買醬油的錢不能拿去買醋司法院認不認同委員這個部分並不是司法院職權這個部分我們他在講的是預算的使用我編錢給你去買醬油不可以拿去買醋司法院認不認同這個牽涉到錢怎麼花 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2088.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2110.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
這個我們不便回答不會啊那個預算不是你們司法院在執行的嗎我為什麼問你其實我不是要在這邊考這個狀態來我帶我接下來帶你看立法院預算中心說什麼司法院歷年的出國計畫都大幅變更你們實際出國的計畫跟依照原計畫的比例低到慘不能讀慘不能讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2115.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2142.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
2023年我講過啦 別人預算要去法國考察結果跑去捷克 這個我去年就問過了我只是很快帶大家review進一步看裡面的錢從其他的計畫 雲芝114萬這叫做掛羊頭賣狗肉這叫做卓榮泰說拿醬油的錢去買醋這就是卓榮泰在講的事情啦2024年 去年有七位大法官去了比利時 法國 荷蘭 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2145.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2154.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
結果我看了預算書看了半天沒有去比利時荷蘭的行程啊院長有去法國的行程編在預算書裡這個我肯定去比利時荷蘭的計畫根本沒有啊也是從其他的計畫雲芝的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2160.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2186.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
那個委員這個在去年在去年預算審查的時候已經有那個報告過了就是說我們的那個大法官因為他們身分的關係還有再加上我國在外交上的那個處境所以說有時候做了計畫之後就是本來都已經談好了那但是最後的時候就是沒有辦法那個成行OK好來我帶大家看一下通過預算以後這一次去比利時荷蘭雲芝的134萬雲芝的134萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2190.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2204.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
本來沒有這個計畫項目雲芝的上百萬了以後那我當然就很好奇啊去比利時荷蘭做什麼我看了以後我嚇一大跳請問這是觀光行程嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2205.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2232.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
我為什麼說這個是觀光行程嗎第一天晚上從桃園搭飛機到阿姆斯特丹阿姆斯特丹我那時候當學者要出國開會的時候常常去啊一落地大概都是天亮的時候結果到阿姆斯特丹以後那不是目的地啊要去比利時要去比利時的布拉索從阿姆斯特丹到布拉索多遠你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2234.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2257.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
妳應該不知道吧 妳有沒有去過我個人有去過 對所以妳從阿姆斯特丹到布拉索移動要多久我不知道他們是用什麼交通工具我可以跟妳講一下阿姆斯特丹的機場下去坐鐵路到布拉索兩個小時 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2260.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2286.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
委員這上面有講了他們那一天還有那個就是在蒐集那個相關是是是請問去荷蘭收入及什麼資料委員因為你今天那個臨時就是準備這個因為我並不是那個就是書記沒有關係啊你們會後提供啊是我只是秀出來給大家看啊結果到了布拉索爾以後吃了一頓飯再休息了一天荷蘭待一天 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2288.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2309.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
比利時待一天也都不是目的地最後再從比利時去法國所以我才問嘛 這個是什麼觀光旅遊行程啊到阿姆斯特丹收集資料你騙我沒有去過阿姆斯特丹啊到阿姆斯特丹為什麼喜歡飛阿姆斯特丹 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2310.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2331.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
一大早就到 往下到海牙 往左邊到布拉索坐電車很方便 就在機場下面 兩個小時就到了但是為了收集整理資料 我們一定要在阿姆斯特丹住一個晚上然後到布拉索以後 再休息一天 再從布拉索跑到巴黎去 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2333.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2348.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
總共合比訪團11天的行程我寬算6天公務11天的行程6天公務真正去你所謂的重要機構參訪的加起來我也寬算3天這樣的行程司法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2349.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2364.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
反正在網站上都有啦只是沒有什麼人去看啊司法院有什麼說辭司法院自己去講但是我回來看了你們的報告我看了真的是大驚失色啊台灣人均的GDP依照IMF有72485美元這個報告是誰寫的 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2371.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2400.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
這個是司法院113年度赴比利時法國荷蘭考察報告上面從院長許忠麗到院長是主任陳惠美中間有一堆大法官我看了這個報告以後我腦袋第一個問題是這個報告誰寫的台灣什麼時候人均GDP有72485美元INF排名第12名真的嗎這個報告誰寫的好沒關係你回去查一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2401.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2419.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
因為他沒有掛名嘛 到底是誰寫的我想院長應該不會寫這種報告啦那到底是誰寫的是真的去的人寫的嗎還是回來找一個職員寫的因為我看了這個數字了以後我覺得很奇怪台灣的人均GDP有72485有嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2424.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2450.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
委員要報告是其實這一次去那個出訪有達成很大的司法跟外交上的那個成就沒關係 這個我等一下再問這個我等一下再問INF你們贏的是2023年台灣人均GDP我很慎重的到INF上面的官網去查這個就是你們Citation嘛資料的來源嘛是32340 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2452.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2480.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
這個是IMF的網站上面 官網不用去阿姆斯特丹就知道了然後這個是你們的出國報告然後你說達成很大的效益來 報告建議採納情形我有框起來嗎你有沒有看到說報告有建議事項有四個項目然後以採行項目有兩個項目這個是司法院送出來的決算書這個數字你有看到嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2484.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2510.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
對對對 是是是但我跟秘書長說明一下整份報告我拜讀了整份報告我拜讀我完全沒有看到上面有什麼建議內容建議內容是零所以我很看你們寫這個決算書出來我看了非常的驚訝我在報告裡面看不到的東西結果在上面有四個建議事項然後還可以說有兩個已經採行了 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2512.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
2532.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
我完全看不懂 我也看不到沒有關係 時間的關係請司法院會後請司法院會後用書面回覆在報告的什麼地方建議了哪四個事項又有哪兩個事項是已經採行 可以嗎可以需要多久 兩天夠嗎這很簡單 就把這份報告拿出來然後說在第幾頁有幾個建議事項 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
2540.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
2553.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
這四個建議事項是哪四個建議事項有哪兩個彩形 需要多久委員那個一週可以嗎好 可以 我給你一個禮拜好 謝謝謝謝黃委員那接下來我們請陳培宇委員發言哈囉對不起 抱歉 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
2573.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
2577.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
好 謝謝主席那先有請副秘書長謝謝副秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
2582.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
2612.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
好 複密署長早安我想今天早上應該大家都會關心一個新聞我想你應該有看到就是關於這個電鍋的案件那目前呢這個判決結果已經出爐那確實呢判決結果一致來說好像蠻符合國人的期待尤其是當時今天現場也在場羅志強委員甚至喊出希望總統可以特赦我可不可以就這個案例請司法院這邊說一說你們的立場還有您個人對於這個判決結果怎麼看 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
2616.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
2637.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
這個案件它是個案就是說當然我們尊重法官審判職權的行使但是它還是有涉及一個共通的問題就是說在我們目前的法制那個貪污治罪條例它有關於就是說貪污的事件裡面有關於小額的部分就像這個就只有很輕微財務部分的貪污 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
2640.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
2657.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
就是就現行法這個的處分法定刑是不是太過了那我想這個部分是那個法務部那個職權那我們知道說法務部其實他們也都有那個修正草案就是也都有去注意這個事情那也有修正草案提報那個行政院審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
2658.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
2686.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
那就這個個案呢我想這個法官他完全是在法律的規定跟他的那個職權底下就是去用了四次的減刑一個是那個偵查中的自白那還有就是說這一個情節輕微還有自首然後再用了一個59條就是其情可憫就是減了四次所以說宣告刑是那個三個月緩刑那個兩年 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
2687.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
2710.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
以上好 你剛剛講得非常清楚四次減刑這件事情其實在相關新聞報導裡面並沒有看到大家只看到如同你剛剛說的它有相關緩刑然後確實這個法官也做出符合大家對於這個案例想像的懲處但是回到特赦這件事情或是回到法務部這邊可不可以請法務部回到法務部關於修法的部分我們也想知道相關進度 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
2715.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
2742.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
謝謝委員那的確這個個案的確是情形法重其實是檢察官在偵查中也在起訴書以及在我們公訴力挺的時候都有跟法官來求情來求情因為這的確情形法重那這部分法院的一個判決那我想也是我們尊重法院這也是合乎我們最原始最大的一個期待那當然情形法重我們在法制面我們已經提出那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
2742.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
2754.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
貪污秩序條例的12條的修正查案因為它貪污所得在5萬元以下這一部分的而且請解清違這邊我們本來現行法是簡訊提醒我們要多一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
2755.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
2773.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
那個免除期刑的一個選項那我想這個可以讓法官以及檢察在一個處理這邊有更大的一個裁量的一個空間目前這個修法已經送出行政院了嗎目前行政已經已經審訊了那我們希望能夠近期內能夠送立法院經過院會同意經過立法院來審議 送立法院審理 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
2776.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
2790.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
這個部分聽起來不管是司法院這邊或是法務部這邊確實都回應了大家對於這個案例的想像跟期待非常謝謝你們的努力而且我們也聽到不管是檢察官或者是法官都在國人的這個期待跟想像之下做出一個大家覺得還 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
2791.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
2806.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
可以接受的判決可是我認為最後的困境是回到免除期刑這個修法是不是國人可以理解跟可以接受的因為我們可以看到過去這一年多以來在立法院裡頭有非常多相關訴訟的修法其實是把罪行 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
2806.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
2810.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
跟這個處罰年限不斷往上升不斷的往上升好像也想要符合國人對於所謂的懲罰壞人的一種想像所以當我們不斷把刑期往上加往上加的時候可是看到這個案例大家又覺得要特赦要特赦我認為這件事情在做社會溝通不管是往上加對於所謂的處罰壞人或者是往下去爭取特赦或者是如何協助不管是檢察官或者是法官 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
2832.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
2859.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
在面對這種案件的時候他們到底那個分寸跟尺度我認為透過今天的溝通可能只是一個開始後續我後續認為不管是所謂的免除期刑或者是我們在遇到懲罰壞人相關懲處的這個比例要往上調升的時候我都認為應該要像這樣的討論而不是認為只要為了處罰壞人我們就可以不斷的往上加往上加往上加甚至引進所謂的酷刑這件事情我認為是大大不可取 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
2859.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
2877.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
所以非常感謝兩位在這個議題的回答我們就先到這邊謝謝那我接下來還是要請兩位留步我們要討論今天關於特留份的事情我知道你們這個回應民間連署的需求然後相關的修法也已經啟動那目前你們的說法是說關於兄弟姐妹特留份的議題呢其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
2878.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
2900.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
一個是要取法制國內外的案例或者是國內外的修法進度我看到你們的報告裡面提到了日本提到了韓國提到了不同國家目前我們看到你們說在2025年4月也已經啟動了相關的學者研究我想知道一下因為是在4月委託學者專家可是這個連署的時間其實是比較後面 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
2902.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
2916.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
但是我又看到你們的報告說你們有納入所謂兄弟姊妹特留份這個部分所以我想要知道如果年底相關報告出爐那部長您說明年初啟動修法目前你們有沒有規劃相關修法的進度在明年的這個時候的確是我們今年四月份有把這個兄弟姊妹的這些的 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
2923.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
2943.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
因為委託研究案有把兄弟姊妹的特留份這個議題有放進去有放進去了那端倪這個特留份的這個制度因為事實上有很多的不同的意見那12月底這個委託研究就要出來了那出來我想我們會按照這個委託研究做一個修法的一個綜合的一個參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
2944.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
2953.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
那這部分因為這個研究還沒有出來那我們想這個是社會很關注那我們會明年啟動修法的這些程序 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
2954.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
2982.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
好意思就是說因為社會關注度很高因為看到這個連署數就知道而且後續一定會有相關的新聞媒體會持續討論我要問的是持續的修法進度也就是說我希望看到今年12月底研究報告出爐之後法務部這邊可以比較積極的啟動修法進程規劃假設有不同黨的委員在質詢這個議題的時候我們都可以希望聽到比較具體的時間規劃另外一個問題我們查了GRB的網站我們目前沒有看到這份研究報告這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
2982.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3001.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
目前研究報告的相關大綱跟方向現在是沒有辦法公開的嗎是 因為還沒有12月底才會提出好 可是大方向什麼也都沒有辦法嗎沒有辦法讓我們看見一個大綱研究大綱或者是說你們當時是怎麼指定 怎麼委託然後大方向內容會是什麼這部分我再給那個好 沒問題 請您來說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3004.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3027.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
好 謝謝委員的垂詢那跟委員報告我們當時為什麼會委託研究有兩大的主要原因第一個原因是日本的民法繼承制度有重大的變革那我們想要很精準的深入的了解日本制度變革的情況那第二個原因呢是因為我們105年有個修正草案但是因為各界的問題意見很多那所以沒有完成立法 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3028.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3042.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
那各界的問題裡面呢 當然包含特留份制度的檢討所以呢 我們在做委託研究的時候就把這兩大的主要原因呢 納入委託研究的範圍好 聽起來很清楚而且確實如同您所說的 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3043.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3059.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
是因為日本立法例的調整或者是105年的修正草案大家方向沒有辦法收攏沒有辦法一致所以回過來看您應該可以回答我下面一個問題目前我們辦公室研究完也發現如果只是單條的修法刪除所謂兄弟姊妹特留份 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3059.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3069.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
或者是降低他們的比例這個可能是之前大家都討論過的但是有沒有可能這個特留份的制度在所謂保障遺族跟保障被繼承人財產處分權之間的這個拔河的關係我認為可能在相關研究報告裡面應該也是要去解決的再看下一張 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3077.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3097.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
那另外呢關於1223條兄弟姊妹特留犯我看到非常多委員都有提出版本我們辦公室還沒有提出主要的原因就是因為我們發現如果只有修單條可能會有其他的法律漏洞所以我也很開心看到你們在今天的報告裡面有提到你們關於所謂民法計程編裡面都會去廣泛的修法跟討論而不會單修這一條對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3102.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3119.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
是因為民法繼承篇分為三大章節總共條次有88條之多我們105年修正的時候就是全盤的檢討提出了三十幾條的修正條文我們明年初啟動修法的內涵其實要包含學者專家的委託研究意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3120.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3147.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
而且包含各界的現在還有各位委員的意見然後還要再把105年的草案呢到底合不合宜以現今的制度來看適不適合我們會做整體全面性的評估檢討沒錯就像我們現在投影片我們看到1138條如果只是把兄弟姊妹拔掉其實後續的祖父母他作為繼續繼承人這個地位是不是有合理性或者是呢如果兄弟姊妹沒有特留沒有特留份可是 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3148.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3177.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
祖父母的部分卻可以主張特留份可能會造成更多爭議所以我很開心看見你們的報告裡面其實有想到所有關於繼承編都要一併考慮我們也希望我還是要再次拜託法務部在相關修法進度上我們要更加積極給國人一個可以想像的期程跟空間因為我相信這個議題在法院相關實務的判決剛剛副秘書長你在做口頭報告的時候你有提出來其實很多人對於這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3178.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3197.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
版本的民法的寫法其實大家是有很多意見那不管是顧及所謂的親屬之間的感情跟關係或者是實務上發生了什麼困境我都認為一併討慮跟考論才是最適宜的做法所以非常期待看到後續法務部積極的修法進度好嗎好 謝謝 謝謝主席好 謝謝陳委員那接下來我們請吳宗憲委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3214.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3219.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
好 謝謝 我們麻煩法務部及司法院請部長和副秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3227.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3250.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
兩位早安我想這次有關兄弟姊妹特留份這個要修法的部分我是立法院第一個提出修法版本的委員而且我在幾個禮拜前也開過記者會有找台灣移族協會他們來開了一個記者會其實我長期以來我就一直覺得兄弟姊妹特留份這東西我們早就應該要修法了 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3251.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3278.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
我過去在擔任檢察官的時候我看過很多家庭的悲劇遺產的問題其實是偵查體面很常見的一個不管是親處之間的一些仇恨 侵佔等等的但是走到特留份這一關的時候它引發出來的問題是常常有一些幾十年沒有聯絡的兄弟姊妹到最後被繼承人死亡的時候他就跳出來就特留份的部分然後跟其他人在對簿公堂 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3279.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3294.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
所以法律本來應該保障家屬就現在反而變成製造仇恨尤其是現在跟100年前的整個社會的狀況不一樣家族的觀念跟以前100年前其實那個凝聚力也跟以前不一樣所以我才會認為說這個部分修法其實是 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3295.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3317.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
有破綻沒燒一定要趕快處理那我覺得這次我看到因為我很重視這個議題所以法務部跟司法院的報告我都有仔細看那我老實說法務部的態度比較讓人家失望完全輸給司法院司法院的報告寫得很清楚德國 日本 瑞士這些國家螃蟹 血腥早就沒有特留份那韓國最近也宣告違憲 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3318.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3344.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
所以司法院的結論非常乾脆就是說無不同意見就尊重我們立法刪除但是法務部報告寫了一大堆最後給的方案是好幾個方案那一下說可以廢 一下又說維持現狀然後最後說維持開放的態度那部長剛剛說有不同意見但是也沒有講出什麼是不同意見但是部長你這個想法在實務上面就叫做沒有態度刪除特留份的部分就沒有態度 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3345.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3368.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
那您是主管機關實體法部分 法務部是主管機關然後確鎖到115年才要啟動修法然後你才要找學者 公聽會你不覺得其實這個速度太慢了所以我還是想這樣其實有很多例子我們看到的是甚至就是說我看過一個例子是頂客族 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3369.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3390.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
然後先生病重 太太照顧他一輩子結果最後先生過世了以後他是說這個財產要全部給配結果先生一走就跑出他那個同父異母的弟弟跳出來從來沒見過的跳出來要分特留份結果老婆還必須賣房子因為他們只有一間房子還必須賣掉房子 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3391.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3407.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
去給了這個同父異母這個她先生兄弟要去補她的特留分所以今天一個本來她太太還有個房子可以安身立命自己一個人就到最後連房子都沒有所以既然世界先進國家都已經承諾這樣是不是可以請部長法務部這邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3409.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3423.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
能夠趕快處理不要說再拖到 一直拖下去然後又還有很多不同的想法一下可以 一下不可以可不可以能夠就直接告訴我們國人說其實這個我們就支持刪除像司法院一樣 部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3426.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3446.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
事實上委員剛剛很關心的這個其實105年那個草案裡面就特留分這是有觸及這個問題了他那時候是要降低的那個特留分的一個比例因為其實委員我們是主管機關所以更要廣大意見那其實當然一定是有一個要不要維持的要全部都要上去的 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3447.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3451.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
那這部分我想委託研鑽12月提要出來我們會盡快再啟動這個修法但是部長講到一個很重要的點是105年是不是今年已經114年那一次是有提到 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3462.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
3478.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
那一次是修法那是有提到叫立法院這部分就是因為大家最因為大家那個因為大院就是因為因為借期不連續所以才沒有完成審議我還是建議部長司法院都勇於表態了 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
3479.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
3506.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
法務部卻是一個模擬兩可的答案這部分請部長您參酌好不好因為既然105年就曾經提過不管屆期廉不廉恤但是這是一個老議題了都沒有動作也不好這部分也不是說外界有所以意思我們就是有委託研究案部長那就這樣那我最後我想要三句話我跟這個社會跟社會大眾報告為什麼我認為特留份手足特留份要刪除第一個我們要尊重被繼承人的遺願 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
3508.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
3533.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
這是他的財產處分權所以我們把最後決定權還給人民還給這位被繼承人第二個 減少家人兌付公帑就我剛說的 搞到最後常常兄弟姊妹為了特留份兌付公帑這是不應該讓這事情發生而且這是法律搞出來的結果第三個 我們讓家人更安心我們要保障留給真正關心被繼承人的這些人照顧亡生者的這些人 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
3534.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
3558.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
所以我希望朝野能夠支持我們把手足特留份的部分刪除這跟全國人民以及跟部長報告這個狀況好那接下來我想提第二個問題部長我要跟您提三個案子那這個部分也請部長能夠真正的重視這個問題我來講三個故事第一個一把雨傘的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
3559.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
3577.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
老太太到區公所辦事情錯拿別人的雨傘結果被報警被帶走被起訴一路打到高等法院然後呢最高法院在判決裡面直接講這種小案子檢警動用整套刑事系統把當天去那裡辦事情的民眾的個資全部都要調出來調監視器 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
3581.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
3608.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
然後為了辦一支雨傘這有沒有嚴重的違反比例原則而且法官在判決還提醒了檢察官不要濫用自己的檢查權那第二個案子 救電鍋的事情我想這幾個案子大家都已經很清楚了台北市的清潔隊員把車上價值剩下32塊的救電鍋送給實荒的老人讓他去煮飯結果被依照貪污罪條例侵占職務上的財務 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
3609.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
3627.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
起訴還好後來法官當然輕判但這不是還好啦這是悲劇那這是多大的問題這個人就叫做就前科犯貪污的前科犯甚至還有排外條款的適用甚至他也要請良民證也請不到很多很多問題不是檢察官一份起訴書那麼簡單好再來第三個是 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
3632.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
3658.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
紅單 警察開紅單的事情派出所的警察對於違規停車認為是停在私人土地所以他只勸導車主離開但是呢被檢察官竟然最後用圖利罪來起訴他法定刑五年以上搞到一二審最後法官都說這個是行政疏失判無罪但是這三年來這個警察被停職薪水砍半還得了憂鬱症停職是本薪的一半而已他一個月只剩下領一萬多塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
3660.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
3689.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
我們看到的是一把雨傘的部分是檢察官無視比例原則司法變全民夢魘這嚴重的違反比例原則我跟你講法官他怎麼樣講檢察官他說檢警為了一把雨傘調閱了這些所有民眾的個資然後還把被告以外的個資一併附在偵查券裡面這個有沒有過當再來浪費司法資源一把雨傘搞得檢警一審二審 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
3690.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
3709.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
那這樣司法不會過勞司法不會崩潰嗎所以這個檢察官在幹什麼好 再來他花費已經當事人是駐美國他每次開庭要從美國飛回台灣還要再請律師他這是幾百倍 幾千倍相當於這個雨傘的價格了好 最後 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
3710.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
3738.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
法官還說檢察官完全搞不清楚裁量權我國是引用德國法治的啊德國法治就有違罪不舉這個概念嘛檢察官本來就要勇於依據職權不起訴不應該上訴就不要上訴檢察官不要有壞習慣無罪就一律上訴我以前當檢察官的時候長官都跟我說無罪就一定要上訴不能不上訴這是錯誤的觀念無罪就無罪如果法官的判決有道理檢察官就要勇於不上訴這是檢察官的勇氣 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
3742.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
3762.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
不能讓檢察官變成是一個只會起訴跟上訴的人選機器檢察官喪失財囊權那你叫國中生高中生來當檢察官就好了今天為什麼檢察官受那麼多的教育就是讓你有判斷的能力所以財囊權還是應該好好的運用我們講到雨傘然後講到電鍋電鍋更糟糕 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
3763.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
3789.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
你今天我們講民眾不小心拿到雨傘檢察官就這樣窮追猛打結果對於這個公務員是毀滅性的打擊核彈級的打擊一個32塊的電鍋跟幾百億的工程弊案我們用的是同一部法律 報告部長32塊的電鍋跟幾百億的工程弊案我們是用同一套法律 同樣的邏輯檢察官就機械式的套用法律然後構成要件套一套就起訴了 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
3789.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
3798.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
然後把一個善意的東西用貪汙來辦這是證明了我們的司法完全僵化到背離了人民的法律感情 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
3800.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
3824.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
檢察官很多時候他必須要去認定他必須要下自己的價值判斷在裡面他要勇於不起訴或勇於職權不起訴啊怎麼到今天就過程要先來套一套符合法律規範過程要先那幾個字我就一律起訴部長這不是什麼高深的學問這只是一個社會相當性的概念部長我們都受同一套教育出來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
3826.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
3844.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
辦案的時候還是要講法理情但是你理跟情都要討論最高檢最近不是有發一個新聞稿給全國各地檢裡面就有提到犯罪所得跟法義侵害甚為的貪污案件真的要去思考法理情以及社會相當性的概念 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
3846.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
3865.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
在法律上面叫做可罰的違法性但是我不要講那麼難可罰違法性其實對我們就是一個社會共感的觀念你把一個人他送了一個32塊的電鍋給石荒的人然後你社會這樣辦他不會有國人覺得司法人員好棒棒大家只覺得我們很不人道部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
3866.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
3887.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
他這部分就刑刑法重這部分我剛才就有提到了這個我們其實也不是做定過案我們才提出修法這個刑刑法重的這個案件尤其是貪污自罪條件我知道你有提一個這個我們有提出了我知道我們馬上就提出了一個修法了那這份行政院審訊我希望能夠解決委員關心這個問題我跟部長報告一下辦這個貪污的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
3891.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
3911.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
那個黑金組的檢察官我自己也在黑金待很多年你黑金組檢察官通常是挑狀況比較好就你用最精銳的一批部隊去辦這個這個因為所以委員你也知道你也在時務待過嘛這個黑金組本來就是辦貪污的這個案件所以他們是在黑金不是因為這個案件一定要指定給黑金組最讓我火大是 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
3912.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
3924.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
原警開單那個案子法官怎麼說你知道嗎高院法官說沒有證據說原警有拿好處收紅包他只是自己對於現狀的判斷只勸導沒開單但是因為我法院是我本部法院的判決是個案我們都尊重法院的判決但是本部法務部是在處理那個法案的處管機關所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
3936.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
3957.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
部長你還沒有抓到我告訴你的東西部長你一直在講尊重法官的判決我現在在告訴你檢察官偵查及起訴有一個很大的問題當然檢察官偵查起訴法院也是判有罪所以檢察官或法院都有檢察官在公訴立庭以及在起訴都有求情 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
3960.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
3985.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
你已經講了 我有聽到這個有求情 這個案件我們認為是一個法律上最大的我們是這樣去達成你不要一直在那邊講 我跟你講時間有限我只要跟你說 檢察官在處理案子的時候麻煩注意一下社會的共感 我跟你講 報告部長我今天 報告部長 部長你聽我說報告部長 部長可不可以聽我說 拜託你 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
3986.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4005.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
我時間就這麼多但是我必須告訴你我看到司法的問題我今天何其有幸報告部長你聽我說報告部長你可以聽我說嗎我這輩子何其有幸三權分立行政立法司法三權我都走過當我走過三權再回過頭來看司法權的時候部長部長可以聽我講話嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4011.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4040.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
我說我何其有幸走過三權分立的三權結果我回過頭來看司法權之後我發現我們的司法權尤其是檢察官你是定位為司法官本來是對於被告的利與不利一併注意就我們今天只在乎構成要件符不符合我們搞出了社會很多本來微小的案子本來應該職權不起訴或甚至從寬去認定他構成要件的部分或者是不要率然的就覺得他有 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4041.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4061.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
主觀翻譯 而可以做不起訴處分要讓社會安定就我們今天看到的不是這樣沒關係 部長你一直跟我爭辯個案爭辯什麼我沒有爭辯我只是跟部長報告沒關係 部長我們已經對過太多次了我一直用這個很誠意的態度來解決一把雨傘可以上訴到高院由法院讓你們收尾32塊的電鍋可以當 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4064.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4079.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
高院最高檢來發新聞稿滅火然後一個員警開單搞到最後判無罪他報收20公斤然後好幾年沒有辦法工作我跟你說這個對不起這個國家然後我還跟你講一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4080.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4100.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
很多東西是結構性的問題不要濫用圖利罪刊物罪條例有它存在的必要可以好好的讓這個國家變更好但是我們最近看到一堆人拿圖利罪來玩政治攻擊王一川說那個啊 揮打案啊是不是公務員涉及圖利啊搞到最後我不懂圖利罪這個東西會不會弄到最後變成是 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4101.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4129.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
在修理公務員或者是阻礙國家進步的一個條文為什麼世界上那麼多國家沒有圖利罪而我們中華民國把圖利罪玩到這麼如火純青玩到一堆政治人物就搞你圖利罪就好了反正最後判無罪選舉也過了我看到的實務上面竟然很多是這樣然後動不動拿圖利罪來嚇公務員讓公務員不敢做事讓國家無法進步 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4130.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4141.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
是不是我們應該要去思考一下為什麼世界上那麼多國家沒有土利罪或者是我們應該把土利罪構成要件多加一些限制讓依法行政的公務員不要害怕 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4143.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4171.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
沒有時間關係我想我有些東西我留到下一次再問那我只是最後不好意思給我30秒我提了一個東西司法過勞的部分部長我還有一些東西我下次再問你司法過勞的部分我跟你說這現在已經年底了我們的同仁以前同仁又開始在拼結案我上個禮拜我去桃檢找以前的同仁我看到每個人都被券給淹沒了五年內詐欺案件暴增所以現在是地檢署 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4172.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4200.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
跟法院三分之一都是詐欺案從去年4月我一直辦一些公聽會一直倡議說補能不是重點真正要簡化流程所以裁判書檢查書類這個是不是要把它簡化所有的當過各位在現場的法官檢察官都知道書類是大家負擔最重的是不是說我們要先簡化這個而不要再流於刑事我知道你們推了很多次但後來都是刑事如果今天連司法機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4202.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4226.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
法務部司法院都不願意為同仁推動修法拯救自己不願意為書記官法官檢察官檢察事務官司法事務官去爭取一套更合理的工作流程的話還有誰能替司法抒壓所以司法會崩潰然後搞到最後大家大家為了逃離這個海量的工作量我就是巴結政治人物趕快升官脫離基層這樣最安全司法就是這樣敗壞 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4228.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4236.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
好 謝謝謝謝吳委員我們這個問題的話留在下次我們再來進行深入的討論接下來請羅志強委員發言有請鄭部長還有王副秘書長請部長跟王副秘書長吳委員早我想先請教王副秘書長你來看這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4256.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4282.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
聯合報今天的頭版上半段是什麼這麼遠我看不見中郵的三接福報百億的弊案上半段下半段是什麼下半段是32元的電鍋被判刑捐32元電鍋被判刑我不知道我們的秘書長你看這個頭版你的感想是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4285.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4311.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
一個台灣兩個世界捐國者諸 竊國者侯我也想請教同樣的問題問一下我們的部長請問部長你看到聯合報這個頭版有什麼感覺這個中友三接案那個檢調已經開始已經大動作的在做一個處理我想這個是一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4314.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4335.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
謝謝你喔恭喜啦有犯罪就勿妨勿重嘛我直接還是重複送你的八個字一個台灣兩個世界捐國者諸竊國者侯來我想請教部長你知道三十六計的第十六計是什麼看過三十六計吧看過吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4340.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4354.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
这个不是没关系反正你没有一个问题我们回答连三十六计看过没看过也不能回答继续拖时间第十六计我告诉你欲擒故纵欲擒故纵要抓人假装放人 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4360.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4379.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
我跟你講 我現在看到檢察官辦綠色貪腐也有36劑啦我直接告訴你 幫你公布啦第一劑叫做遇重固情啊第二劑叫做大案小辦啦第三劑叫做棄居保帥啦第四劑叫做以託待變 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4381.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4392.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
我一個人來跟你講你跟我講 現在檢調終於辦了來 好棒棒請問 請問 請問五部長請問部長謝謝你啊 勿攘勿縱啊來來來我是哪一天開記者會揭露這個案子的你知道吧我哪一天開記者會的我11月11日開記者會第三度把檢舉凡交給法務部第三度喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4411.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4435.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
檢舉人到我這邊已經是走投無路了 拜託我幫忙檢舉三年前檢舉石沉大海 八月檢舉石沉大海最後我11月11號開記者會親手把檢舉人交給法務部 有沒有我們是本部的立場就是有還是沒有嘛 不知道答不知道嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4437.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4447.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
當你不知道好了啦有啦新聞都有啦你們法務部有派人來啦來請教你什麼時候搜索的來什麼時候搜索的 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4448.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4467.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
這個新聞稿有我問你嘛這麼大的案子你不要靠新聞稿嘛你法務部長不知道福報150億不是小案子啊哪一天搜索的啊昨天有執行嘛哪 昨天 就昨天嘛12月2號嘛沒錯吧 我說錯了沒有啊21天耶 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4471.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4484.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
我檢舉還送到法務部21天我覺得你們法務部真的很棒啊檢察官真的很棒啊我知道你尊重 我沒有罵你我沒有罵你來來來 我想請教我們黃副秘書長秘書長請你上來謝謝喔我請副秘書長上來 謝謝你啦謝謝你啦我也跟 剛剛跟司法院無關我直接講 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4500.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4521.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
11月11號我開記者會檢舉親自第三度把檢舉函交給法務部交給調查局拖21天這不就是我們檢察官我們法務部我們偉大部長你不肯評論個案裡面的個案當中的以拖待變 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
4523.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
4548.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
21天 消政 滅政 篡共 全部結束了啦超級無敵棒啦來 我再請教部長來 我跟你講什麼叫棄居保篡 我來告訴你我都快要幫你們檢察官下結論了檢舉函有送到法務部了嘛有送到檢察官了嘛你知道檢舉函裡面來 我唸給你聽 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
4551.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
4577.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
中游總經理多次召見東坯叫他調高價格你就是聽不懂中游總經理中游總經理說跟東坯講你的價格居中我以價格為預算不用擔心別人的政治實力然後招標一週後中游總經理再對東坯說你說我沒壓力是騙人的我不能叫你不投但你得標後你不會好過 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
4578.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
4587.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
我不知道檢舉函真偽啦裡面起碼四度提到中油公司的總經理來請教中油公司總經理約談了沒 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
4589.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
4616.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
這部分對案件的一個如果約談哪個對象這是檢察官謝謝你啊我早知道你會這樣回答啦我告訴你整個前舉很重點就在中油公司總經理連我在這邊質詢當時的中油公司的總經理方正仁現在董事長你知道方董事長怎麼跟我講他講得也非常好啊他說抱歉啊雖然開票說我是總經理啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
4618.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
4640.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
但是在所謂的標案的過程是前總經理啊前總經理叫李順清也當中油董事長怎麼了今天辦中油的經理中油工程部的主管結果總經理放掉啊你無法解釋因為你不是檢察官我也不需要你幫他們去擦臉了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
4641.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
4669.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
我直接講嘛合不合理讓國人去來評價嘛合不合理嘛再來我要講啊很簡單啊為什麼我今天講說你是大案小辦嗎我有這個疑問啊然後更重要的是我覺得是遇重故情啊我檢舉21天部長總要加冕我一下吧請問你們搜索在羅志強開記者會前還開記者會後啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
4671.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
4697.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
这种答案出来吧这个搜索就是昨天的一个还要停个10秒钟这个媒体都有报导吗对 有报导从你金口书还真难在我开记者会递检举函后的21天21天今天抓他们 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
4700.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
4727.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
約談他們涉案人員21天後我才說這是要遇重顧情啊沒有啦 這個還是要做做樣子 過過場說我的話不是說檢察要去就可以謝謝你啊 這個還是申請法院來那你不要講我還是跟上次一樣你也是啊太子集團45億你跟我講檢察官都在辦很努力啊調查局在辦很努力啊需要時間啊 大案很重要嘛對不對9年啊這個案子也3年啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
4729.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
4755.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
如果說今天是我今天21天才有這個案子你說來不及搜索就算三年的案子老案子我還是講啊謝謝國民黨啊謝謝羅志強啊我真是在懷疑我沒開這個記者會你們到底會不會去搜索終究還是搜索 慢21天的搜索 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
4757.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
4778.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
是不是遇重顧情做個樣子我不評價你也不用回答那國人去評價再來我現在講一件事了不起啊世襲的董作是一方經理陳建宗工程部主管張青森列被告交保金多少來部長交保金多少放回去了沒 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
4792.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
4817.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
還是不知道我沒有叫你干涉個案這個新聞已經是各報的頭版了你做部長這麼重大福報150億工程連新聞都不看我有點小失望這個媒體都有報導媒體都有報導從你金口說真難部長金口真是金香的 金造的無保請回 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
4819.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
4832.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
你有沒有聽過溫柔的慈悲這首歌啊你們檢察官就溫柔的慈悲啊好溫柔啊我相信檢察官有他的偵查的一個策略啦感謝你啦 為難你啦偵查的策略不然我跟一個誠摯的建議你乾脆錄一個錄音帶 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
4838.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
4866.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
好不好寄放在我们的那个主席这边检察官有办案的他的一个思考跟节奏检察官有什么个案有什么刚才每个问题都放这边我不能干涉指导个案我不能干涉指导个案你告诉你我想检察官的我相信检察官的办案一定是物完物中一定要收集证据去认定事实这是检察官正常的一个正常的ABC这个一定要是这样就处理 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
4867.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
4882.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
我直接講啦很簡單啦錄個錄音帶啦也不用浪費大家時間反正問什麼問題都是一樣的回答對不對都是一樣的回答我最後還是要說一件事情一樣是這個報紙請全台灣國人看一看150億的福報東批已經承認啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
4894.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
4920.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
東批已經承認他們是配合中油中油要求他們來扶爆價格你報紙上已經揭露了承認啦然後呢所有檢舉指向的中油總經理高層你們不碰啊拖21天還不碰啊我欣賞跟佩服看看下面那個32元的清潔隊員 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
4923.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
4942.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
32元捐給老富人石荒老富人被判刑啊不當民進黨的官不當民進黨國營事業董事長不當國營事業董經理可惜啊150億白花花的銀子真好啊我也跟部長說啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
4948.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
4970.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
我沒有抱什麼期待啦抱歉啦但是希望我這個沒有期待是錯的我看得多火大我其實一直在等我告訴你我每天在算我看檢察官什麼時候動手我真的沒想到可以拖21天我們國民黨為這個事情召開兩次專報開了今天待會開第三場記者會 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
4973.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
4984.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
我們為了監督今天政府不要浪費納稅人錢150億不是小數字不要搞這種欲重顧情的事情 謝謝你好 謝謝羅羅志強委員那接下來我們有請林倩琦委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5009.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5013.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
好 謝謝主席我們翁昭薇那接下來我請法務部部長好 有請部長委員好部長您好我們今天針對這個民法繼承編特留份制度來做一個檢討也非常感謝昭薇把這樣一個主題給排上因為這其實是民間的一個提案那也獲得很大的一個迴響 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5035.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5056.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
那麼最主要應該是在我們的整個繼承制度長期沒有來跟上整個時代的脈動的一個變化導致僵化那目前兄弟姐妹的特留份在現代家庭的結構裡面跟實際撫養的一個關係裡面沒有具正當性所以本席主張應該來廢除 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5058.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5075.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
首先 我國在特留份的制度上原本的利益是要保障最低限度應受照顧的繼承人但是在整個國際立法當中尤其是用大陸法系的主要國家包括法國 德國 奧地利 日本 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5076.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5092.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
都沒有把兄弟姊妹列為特留份的權利人因為兄弟姊妹在現代社會當中時時的撫養關係家庭的功能也跟過去共同居住還有共同財產的結構不太一樣了但是我國卻仍然保有第三順位繼承的特留份 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5093.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5112.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
有點脫離現實最重要的是直接影響跟限制了遺囑的自由使繼承人一生的財產分配被過時的一個制度來綁手綁腳甚至特留份的存在讓很多的遺囑案在法院徵送多年造成的家庭糾紛財產凍結跟制度原本的目的其實有點背離 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5117.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5144.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
其實在2007年的法務部的研討裡面也已經談到我們的民法1117條的規定兄弟姊妹不能維持生活又沒有謀生能力且無職系血親悲親屬撫養的時候才能請求其他兄弟姊妹撫養特留份的規定其實沒有絕對的必要現在的狀況兄弟姊妹相互撫養的情形也很少生活的保障應該要做一個調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5145.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5165.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
所以刪除這個特留份其實不違背原本的公平正義原則那也合乎現代時代的一個脈動所以這個改革的方向基本上也不是說新的它其實是也放了十幾年所以本席在這邊認為這個廢除兄弟姐妹特留份應該同步的啟動遺囑制度的一個強化 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5167.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5187.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
所以目前的遺囑制度整個的也是樣態非常繁雜規範上也很薄弱而導致很多的徵送許多被繼承人儘管有意願有的時候還是沒有辦法完成遺囑常常都在這個時候發生一些爭議結果沒有辦法保障真正需要被照顧的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5189.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5214.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
所以我們來參考一下美國有一些法院嚴格監督的遺囑驗證法院的制度能夠確保遺囑真實有效讓立遺囑成為一個普遍的文化我想現代社會對這個部分其實需求是增加的所以我們在遺囑制度這個部分也應該有一些補強的地方所以本席請部長給予本席一個比較明確的回應 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5216.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5242.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
那第一个部分是法务部是不是来支持废除兄弟姐妹特留份的这样一个方向那第二个部分在这个同时做这件事情的时候呢我们可不可以同步来启动遗嘱制度的一个全面检讨那包含遗嘱认证的机制还有降低这个公正的门槛那第三个部分是完善普及御利遗嘱您的看法呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5243.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5264.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
各位委員報告因為我們現在正好有委託研究剛才我有提到了那在12月底會出來那這部分我們委託的包括有特留分的問題還有包括委員關心包括遺囑 印記分等等的我們是繼承篇的有關你這部分的就全面的一個檢討那因為那一次有送到大院來但是因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5265.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5292.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
意見還是很多因為每個人的各方的一些的我們知道這個問題是比較複雜那佳佳有本難念的那因為我主管機關我沒辦法說我偏好哪一種直接講要是我不是專長當然我有我自己的偏好希望哪一種但是我必須要廣納各界的一個意見去求得一個立法上的一個平衡那這部分我想細節上是不是我請那個司長來跟委員做一個在座 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5293.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5315.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
市長你可以很快的就是就這個方向然後你們目前可能有的實際的做法就如同本席講的這個問題我相信你們也已經過去有很多的研討但是放了這麼多年那現代社會尤其是現在的生活型態要導致爭議越來越多那所以是不是在這個方向上還有速度上你們目前的一個做法是如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5315.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5329.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
是跟委員報告喔這個因為民法繼承篇裡面包含了剛剛委員所垂詢的特留份的制度還有移族的制度那我們105年提出來的修正草案裡面其實有包含這兩個條這兩個議題所以很早就已經針對這兩個議題有一些結果嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5333.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5359.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
但是十幾年一直也都還沒有一些進度所以我想現在各界應該針對現在社會的生活方式其實已經產生了更多的一些爭議所以是不是法務部這個部分針對本席所講的這個方向那你們也應該有一些主張啦可以積極作為我們講的嘛就是說你們原本立法意旨想要處理的方向結果導致在現實狀況下現在已經不合時宜了 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5361.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5390.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
是不是速度上還有方向上都應該做趕快的調整呢是 我們會盡快的研議因為就特留份的制度來講目前我們收到的資訊包含人民的陳情案件裡面當然有建議刪除的刪除兄弟姊妹特留份也有建議把整個特留份制度完全刪除但是也有人建議要維持特留份的制度另外除了刪除以外有人建議要調降的所以各種建議都有 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5390.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5413.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
你知道每一件事情各種建議都有但是本席提到就是說那你們也應該針對目前你們所碰到的這個狀況然後比例上的這個多寡然後去了解一下現在社會的現狀不能懸在那邊一直很久然後搞到你看為什麼會排這個主題基本上就民間非常對這件事情的這個響應非常的高那我想法務部也不能在這個比較消極的認識嘛對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5415.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5431.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
今年四月份就已經委託研究其實在即便是沒有眾開獎那一位提議者的建議其實本部就已經著手要研修繼承法相關規定所以我們也應該有一些看法跟主張就是積極認識好不好好 謝謝接下來本席也談跟這個部長這邊來探討一下這個民法1052年的這個修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5445.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5461.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
1052條有關於離婚室友的修正針對因他方故意犯罪得請求離婚的門檻法務部現行的版本竟然把宣告六個月以上的刑期上修為宣告兩年以上有期徒刑 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5465.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5486.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
怎麼會把這個六個月上修到兩個兩年以上的有期徒刑那本席認為你們這樣子的修正方向對於防治家庭暴力上跟防治毒品跟性犯罪的一個機制有一點這個方向上有點背離喔那部長是不是可以說明為什麼要把六個月提高到兩年因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5486.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5502.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
就本席所掌握的狀況六個月的門檻已經能夠涵蓋大量足以破壞家庭功能的犯罪態樣像毒品使用防範性自主防害性自主或強制猥褻家暴的相關案件通常宣告 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5503.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5527.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
六個月以上一年以下的判刑就已經足以處理這樣子的事情但是你們如果提高到兩年那是不是會讓配偶身心受到更重大侵害的一個犯罪如果有這麼更重大的侵害的犯罪都沒有辦法再提離婚的室友這個不是跟原本你們的立法意旨是背離的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5529.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5558.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
可以請 您的看法這部分我想這個立法這部分他有做過一個討論那我想這個細節是不是我請市長來答覆很快的這個回應一下謝委員隨時有關於將六個月提高為兩年這個議題我們在部裡的民法親屬品研修會也討論很久那當時最主要的考量就是說有些違罪譬如說譬如說竊盜那個處的六個月五個月譬如說他 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5559.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5580.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
所以門檻是六個月上修為兩年就主要是擔心就是違罪然後徒刑的刑度不高的時候然後就可以提起離婚然後影響到婚姻的穩定性當時是有這樣的考量那這個部分是還可以再討論的但是你們考量的是就你們觀點看的這個穩定性 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5582.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5603.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
可是呢如果這個配偶沒有辦法在一個已經被判六個月或者是他的刑期如果還更高的話那配偶已經在身心上遭受很大的一個衝擊的話他還沒有辦法離婚那這不是也讓配偶跟你們的修法方向其實是背離的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5603.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
5626.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
跟委員報告我們這一次修法有點像強迫維持婚姻嘛 對不對我們這一次修法有增加了一個破綻主義的原理在裡頭增加了第二項的規定如果說這個配偶一方呢他如果已經認為這個婚姻難以維持而且有重大的理由的話其實破綻主義的精神也可以提起離婚的我們有配套的規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
5627.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
5651.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
是 有相關配套的規定這個加重了一些家庭的負擔我實際認為你們現在的版本修的比現行法你們即將要修的版本比現行法更嚴苛其實是不合乎被害者的保護原則你們要思考一下我本期是認為你們現在六個月的刑期應該是比較適切的那你把它提高你反而讓婚姻裡面的被害者 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
5652.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
5666.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
你們為了要所謂維持婚姻可是讓被害者其實陷於一種長期的這個相對的被迫害其實是不太宜的這個議題也是各有不同的意見那最後你們有沒有做一些量化的評估是不是要針對這個議題跟社會福利團體家暴房子的單位還有民間團體充分溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
5672.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
5686.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
然後最重要不要忘記是你們要解決婚姻裡面的問題而不是從國家主義去維護你們所謂的社會的家庭的穩定性結果搞到在家庭裡面已經碰到問題的被害者都沒有辦法為他的權益來發聲 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
5687.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
5713.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
因為我們有增加了破綻主義的條文在裡頭所以呢這部分是有配套的措施那這個草案在通過之前呢我們都有徵詢各團體的意見本席剛才所講的社會福利團體 婦女團體那是不是相關的資料還有他們的意見你可以會後補充給本席可以的 謝謝總之本席還是講一下本席的訴求啦還是覺得現行的六個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
5713.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
5733.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
就已經規範到你們原先這個立法的意旨了那對於提高到兩年這樣很大的刑期的差異本席認為應該要再審慎的思考謝謝好 謝謝那最後一個我可能很快的我們是不是那個部長請回那我們請司法院副秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
5738.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
5756.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
本席在最後針對這個羈押制度是不是有點過度的侵害人權來跟您做一個探討依據我們公民與政治權利的國際公約第九條的第三項任何因刑事罪而被逮捕拘禁之人都應該在合理期間來受審或獲釋 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
5758.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
5779.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
那麼聯合國在之前也提出了一個一般性意見的第35號跟第37點來進一步指出那任何羈押的形式上的合法只要缺乏實質的必要性長期羈押就會違反無罪推定跟人身自由保障的這個原則那我們現行的這個形式訴訟法第108條規定那羈押最長可以達到兩個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
5785.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
5809.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
審判期間三個月並得延長但是民國17年至今都沒有再修有點不合時宜因為滿久的司法實務當中法院核准羈押的比例也很高大概達到八成現況讓羈押不是一種例外性的強制處分反倒成為一個日常性的押人取供感覺好像是一種預防性的懲罰所以這樣的現象實質已經構成羈押的刑罰化 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
5814.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
5838.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
那 布小林對這件事情的一個看法呢報告委員 那個第一個首先就是委員講了這個人權公約這個我們那個司法院是絕對尊重那 其實在那個刑訴之外呢還有一個那個妥肅法它有關於那個羈押期間它其實也有做了一個那個限制所以說 有關於就是說這個公約上面 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
5839.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
5857.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
說不能夠長期那個羈押這一點在我國法治上 事實上是有依循像我們的那個釋字第653號也有揭示嘛羈押應該屬於例外的這個手段然後不能濫用可是現在看起來很日常所以這個部分是不是有一些調整的空間 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
5860.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
5866.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
請委員指教哪一個部分需要調整空間因為在我們的刑事訴訟法第208條羈押我們講日本作為日本我們來當成一個範例它最長羈押20日那麼韓國的刑事訴訟法在203條跟205條也有類似的規範但是我們羈押會長達數月或長達而且還可以再延長 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
5884.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
5913.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
那這個差距其實跟其他國家比較起來我們的羈押期是有點過長那也顯示我們在整個體系上推動這有一點改革上的遲緩那我先就請教您三點那司法院你們認為現在的羈押制度是不是應該做修正這第一個然後第二個是那法院是不是可以要有效的實踐拒保責付電子監控等替代制度來落實羈押 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
5913.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
5933.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
作為最後手段的一個原則 您的看法謝謝委員的詮詢其實委員所提的這個方向我們在法院實務上確實也都是朝向這樣子在做的我想並沒有所謂因為法院是審判端並不會有委員所提到的就是押人取共這樣子的一個現象存在 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
5934.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
5958.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
你們讓社會的一個法院最近的幾個案件讓社會的觀感是本席提出這樣一個問題很重要的一個來源所以您在講說其實本來應該最後的手段可是就如同本席剛才所講它已經讓大家感覺是一種日常當然也有因為案例的不同所以在執行上的 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
5960.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
5976.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
執行上的實質好像有一些差異所以我覺得普遍讓社會有這樣子的觀感那您說朝這樣一個方向在修正那麼但是在實務上跟方向的修正上理論的一個奠定上那您覺得這中間的差異可以怎麼樣來處理呢因為委員那個社會的觀感是如此但是你們又說在這個方向但是我們實質看到很多人他就會被羈押很長的時間啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
5989 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6011.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
因為這個個案我們沒辦法討論但是就是說羈押期間的長短它要是要整個看整個大的制度它現在有很多重刑犯罪就是我們有關於程序保障會越來越要求所以說都要做很多有關於精神上或者說各種的就是它救生能力的鑑定像這一種就是說像殺人犯好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6012.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6023.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
你一去鑑定的時候事實上都有相當的時日如果說那個時間太短的話就是在那個時間當中被羈押的人可能他的權益就受到一些衝擊 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6024.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6047.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
所以說這個重要的事就是最後就是法官的那個裁量權就是說這個個案有沒有必要那但是如果說是單純在整個現行的那個法制上把它縮短的話它會造成像那種重大的這種暴力犯罪或者說這種集團性的詐欺或者說那個殺人案件他們很多需要就是要鑑定比較長時間去審理的時候它會造成它的困難 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6048.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6072.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
所以這中間的這個差異怎麼去做一個落差怎麼去做一個處理我想這也是很重要一個修整的一個方向最後最重要就是說我們整個羈押的制度是對人權跟人身的自由是最直接的一個干預所以當我們要求司法機關來追求效率跟秩序的同時也要顧及程序正義跟人權人權不能在這裡面被無限制的一個犧牲所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6076.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6100.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
是不是可以請司法院競速提出本席剛才所講的是落差也好是需要檢討也好那麼明確來規劃修法的方向跟替代制度的一個落實的時程可以嗎可以將這樣子的報告就本席剛才所講的方向實務上理論上的一個差異跟您剛才講的可能有不同的案例對 跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6102.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6127.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
整個社會上對目前幾個重大案件我相信應該大家都有掌握那這個落差你們覺得應該怎麼去處理那這個部分可不可以做一個報告給本席可以的 謝謝好 謝謝好 那麼剛剛林委員的垂詢說希望司法院可以提報告要多一個月之內提報告給林委員好不好 就一個月吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6135.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6144.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
我想對我覺得這議題應該是還好你們這些都準備了就一個月之內了好吧一個月之內就提供一份報告給林委員好謝謝好我們接下來請這個下一位翁小林委員翁朝偉 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6162.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6166.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
好 謝謝我們在這邊首先先請部長委員好是 部長好我們今天其實就是聚焦討論有關於民法的第1223條裡面有關於涉及到兄弟姊妹特留份的規定當然這個議題剛剛前面幾位委員也都有提到了然後也聆聽了法務部 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6192.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6214.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
的做法就是你們基本上看起來是在4月份就先做了一個委託研究案那預計也會在今年年底的時候會提出那但是呢針對就是你們對於這個案子的處理那本席當然是有些意見因為誠如就是你們在先前報告裡面有講事實上這個議題早在多年前 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6215.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6234.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
其實就已經有過討論當時也有提過相關的法案的修正那麼在這一次我們這個立法院很多的委員其實在上個會期吧就都已經陸陸續提出了有關於兄弟姐妹特留份等等的相關的修正規定那理論上應該是法務部要趕快的把這個議題然後自己 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6239.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6256.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
內部也要有一個立場 有一個態度做委託研究固然重要但是我想其實就這個議題部分就現行的很多的法律的資料文件的閱讀等等法務部自己內部就可以做了 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6257.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6273.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
是不是有必要非得要等到委託研究案的成果報告出來之後你們再提法案難道法務部自己沒有立場嗎當然我們內部會有討論但是一個委託研究案我們在四月份已經委託了十月份還是四月份 對不起 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6273.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6288.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
4月份嘛其實都已經差不多半年了因為大概報告會在12月底會出來那我想因為這次的範圍是蠻大的不是只有單只有那個特留份的問題包括遺囑的包括印記份的 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6289.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6292.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
等等的所以你們這次的委託研究範圍是不是只有涉及到實測流販的問題還包含其他的其他的這個遺囑 撫養權的這些問題有嗎有涉及到撫養權嗎撫養權的這部分是一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6307.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6328.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
这个抚养的这个部分就是一个贡献度的问题对 因为这也是本席接下来要谈的就是说涉及到兄弟姐妹特留份规定的修正那么事实上也有可能会影响到另外一个议题就是一四里面亲属的互付抚养义务 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6329.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6333.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
在親屬的互付養義務裡面包含兄弟姊妹之間也互付養義務那麼在1117條裡面又提到受養權利者的話是以不能夠維持生活而無謀生能力者為限因此其實有些民眾有意見認為說如果說刪除兄弟姊妹的特留份之後那麼是不是對於親屬之間特別是針對兄弟姊妹互付養義務的 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6357.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6380.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
這個條文也要有一些修正那麼如果說是我們認為說是對於沒有維持生活能力沒有謀生能力的兄弟姊妹必須要撫養的話那麼特留份的部分是不是也應該要做相當程度的維持這個部分我是認為說也是一個有意義的思考那或許就是法務部可以就這兩個議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6382.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6410.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
不僅是特留份的問題還包含兄弟姊妹互付養義務的這個義務的事項有沒有需要一起一併的來做檢討 來思考如果要修的話是不是要一併修那這個部分的話是不是可以請部長你這邊對於這個之前的委託研究案裡面有沒有包含這個部分或者是說是 這位是請市長的回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6413.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6442.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
謝謝委員垂詢我們委託研究案裡頭的委託的範圍是繼承篇的規定那是包含兩大的目的第一個目的就是希望能夠學者專家幫我們收集了解日本最近繼承篇修正的情況因為你剛剛之前已經說過我現在只是講說就是就撫養的部分的話本席也建議說你們法務部也可以一併思考就像我剛剛講的就是除了談到特留份的 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6443.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6469.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
1223的規定之外另外114跟117裡面的撫養義務以及對於撫養義務的線索它未來會不會涉及到跟特留分其實它有某種程度的一個關聯性因為有些確實是沒有謀生能力的兄弟姐妹可能需要其中的一方來做撫養但是之後又把它特留分又給剝奪了那會不會也會引起另外一種 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6471.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6485.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
覺得不公平的一個討論那本席這邊也提出來相關的意見給你們做參考那當然就是說事實上本席這邊也要給法務部甚至待會給司法院一些建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6486.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6507.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
因為我每次在看到你們每個會期提出的立法計畫我總覺得跟我們立法院的立法委員們所提出來的提案有相當的落差也就是說你們很多的立法計畫好像似乎永遠趕不上立法委員這裡提案的角度就是你們也要去觀察或者是去了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6507.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6534.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
每個會期可能立法院這裡可能會推動什麼樣的法案我們在哪個法案裡面可能會加速的通過那你們現在的就腳步很緩慢在各個法案裡面的提案都是一樣的坦白說你等你們的研究報告出來搞不好我們的這個特留份的修法很快的在年底之前或是1月可能就已經通過了那你們做的研究也是徒勞無功 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6536.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6555.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
對 這是本席要給法務部的一個誠心的建議對 你們不能夠這麼腳步這麼牛步化這立法推動要迅速 要加速然後再加上你們現在很多要經過行政院呈報之後再送出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6556.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6577.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
真的等到你們送出來我們的法案早就通過了也就沒有意義了那這部分的話本席希望部長這裡可以多配合或是多加速加緊你們的速度能夠趕得上我們立法院推動法案的速度好嗎好 是那麼好 接下來本席也要再談到就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6578.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6595.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
昨天的新闻刚刚罗志强委员有提到就是有关于北市黄庆清洁队员将32元的电锅送给拾荒妇的这样的一个案例然后又依法院士林地院依照贪污资罪条例 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6597.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6610.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
予以判決雖然說看起來是輕判但是事實上呢這個判決這個引起的社會觀感的確是不好那麼大家會認為說像這樣的一個像是一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6612.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6633.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
犯以很轻的这样的一个行为违法很轻的行为但是呢还是依照贪污治罪条例里面去惩罚那即便是法官在这个案子里面他有四次的检刑事由可是呢事实上他还是判处三个月然后缓刑只夺公权两年那么这样子的一个判决 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
6634.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
6658.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
坦白說老百姓不太能接受那麼事實上這個問題也不是只有這一次發生那麼在三年前其實有類似的案例同樣的也是單人清潔隊的無性夫婦將民眾丟棄的家具電器送給一個越南的老鄉那麼後來兩人自首同樣的也是各被判刑一年一個月 一年兩個月然後也緩刑一年 尺度公權一年 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
6658.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
6679.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
在10年前也是有類似的案例同樣的也是一個清潔隊員他將資源回收物也是送給一個拾荒的老阿嬤那麼後來也是同樣被判刑也就是說這個問題其實已經存在已久但是法務部在這個事情上面同樣也是修法緩慢修法牛步 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
6681.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
6698.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
請問這個部長困難點在哪邊這部分其實我們在我們非常重視這個問題本部非常重視的確是清清法重那再怎麼檢那事實上跟國民的認知的會有一些的所以你們可以所以檢清其刑 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
6698.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
6716.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
有跟委員報告謝謝委員給我這時間我們那個是因為現行那個12條那個12條它只有減刑期刑我們把它都加一個或免除期刑那個減刑的可以減三分之二還會更低那免除期刑就是法院可以免刑那所以這個案子很好那你為什麼還沒有提出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
6717.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
6742.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
那這部分我們老早就提出已經提出 行政已經審訊了那我想會很快再提出行政院會然後再送立法院來審理什麼時候會送到立法院呢這個我們再來努力我希望部長能夠在行政院能夠在行政院上面盡速的反映這個事情不要又是我們的法案都已經送出去到通過了 因為你們還沒有出行政院這其實會讓大家覺得說法務部怠惰 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
6745.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
6760.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
那現在大家現在本期也知道說有時候可能錯也不在法務部是在行政院不 在行政院是省區那我想因為行政院省區就要趕快送出那為什麼又不趕快送出我們會再跟行政院我們再來努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
6760.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
6765.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
因為這個議題真的是已經就是這個疾病已久大家都知道說這個條文的確有問題而且會錯罰一些不明瞭法律規定的民眾讓他們其實根本沒有貪污的動機或貪污的故意可是卻用貪污治罪條例來處罰他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
6785.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
6794.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
這其實真的是引起大家會覺得很不公平的一件事情所以也請部長這裡能夠盡速的要求行政院趕快把案子送到立法院來因為我們這裡之後也會加速來審理相關的條文然後第三個議題則是因為這週一司法法治委員會就是安排到法務部剿政署還有所屬的台北監獄考察那本席在這邊也非常感謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
6813.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
6830.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
由林慶吉委員來帶隊當天的考察雖然是聚焦在假釋的審查評估已經辦理但是本席認為監獄超收的問題仍然是非常值得關注的根據今年3月法務部給本席的資料裡面台北看守所超收的比率高達36% |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
6832.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
6857.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
台北監獄是高達18% 相近19%桃園監獄的超收比例也是超出36%桃園女子監獄有31%那麼從人權保障的角度來看其實法務部應該要趕快進速去解決超收的問題那你們現在到底規劃了有哪些是屬於監所要擴建改進的計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
6859.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
6883.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
謝謝 那個就是我們現在巴德外醫間跟彰化看守所目前工程也進行到尾聲希望明年上半年應該可以驗收來啟用我想可以解決這個問題另外我們也加速假釋的一個審查為什麼會超縮這個最主要是我們現在打造我們法官的良心開始已經 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
6885.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
6900.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
變比較重了那另外因為抓到不少的詐團所以這部分我們也做一些的生壓所以我看到台北看了超收還有一些的建立的一個超收跟這個有點大關係對 現在的詐團的詐犯有關係但是我覺得這個問題長期存在已久了所以本期希望好 這個防部能夠在兩週之內可以提供給本期就是有關相關的目前的監獄看守所的超收情況以及你們 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
6914.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
6926.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
擴建改建的計畫好不好是這個部分的話再請你們提供給我一個比較詳細的報告好那接下來請部長請回我接下來要再有個議題再請教副秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
6930.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
6953.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
好 謝謝王副秘本期這邊很快的要就叫一個議題就是在上週我們看到一個新聞就是懲戒法院對於前台灣苗栗地方法院的法官周靜妮作出撤職並停止任用三年的懲戒那其中就列舉了這個周法官他23項的為實行為這為實行為看起來也是令人瞠目結舌包括假造判決 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
6954.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
6983.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
然後不想在夜間開庭而與被告私下談條件然後當事人訴請離婚但是最後卻獲判二十萬同時還要把當事人關過頭對當事人動私刑在電話當中逼當事人三十秒內和解對不配合他說謊的助理還拖延加班費等等這些霸凌離譜的行為所以其實這個法官當然現在看起來他應該已經辭職了是不是是所以懲戒結果對他的影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
6984.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7007.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
有嗎有對他產生什麼影響嗎他只是辭職了然後呢他有扣除他的這個退休金什麼之類的嗎除了辭職的這個懲戒結果之外除了他已經辭職了他有其他的懲戒結果嗎其實看起來就是現在懲戒結果對他基本的影響是零 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7011.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7036.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
包委員除非是說他有刑事責任那就是依懲戒的這些相關的處分這個已經是最重最重的處分所以他是辭職還是撤職撤職所以他剛剛講的那些行為沒有構成其他的刑事上面的犯罪嗎目前是沒有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7037.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7053.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
所以這就是讓社會大家都會覺得實在是這樣子離譜的法官最後只能夠在行為上面給他撤職但是卻不構成其他的犯罪而且更何況本席感到最吃驚的是這個行為其實已經持續非常多年 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7054.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7083.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
他從104年當時他的那時候的這個院長就已經對這個一個邱志平院長當時已經對這個州法官一語口頭警告曾經一開始104年的時候曾經發生第一件這個不當的行為之後在108年到113年歷時三年多這樣子的一個霸凌或是不合理的這樣的違法行為不斷的發生但是司法院基本上處理這樣子的案子會非常的緩慢 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7084.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7107.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
好像是無動於衷 總是慢半拍所以本席就感到很驚訝的就是到底司法院對於自己本身法官的內控機制是如何類似像這樣子的問題如果說當事人或是他的律師一旦反應之後你們的啟動調查或是暫時停止他審判的機制有類似像這樣的一個做法嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7108.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7114.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
謝謝委員垂詢 委員所詢問的這些其實在法官法上其實也都有相關的規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7115.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7140.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
對 可是有規定你們沒有執行或是你們怠惰就是那個州法官他事實上先前就已經有先經過那個司法院停職了那有跟那個委員報告就是說州法官他的行為事實上是一剛開始的時候法院就有注意所以那是層級化的那個處理先剛開始的時候是由那個法院就是先職務監督然後之後連續四次的送到那個法評會去 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7142.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7165.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
他連續從108年到113年三年多的時間然後有20幾項的違釋的行為這代表他不是只是短時間發生而且也顯示出這個法官他本身他的身心的狀況出了很嚴重的問題所以本期在這裡只是提醒我不希望再看到下一個州法官的這樣的一個案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7166.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7194.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
出现也希望司法院能够对于法官的自己的身心的状况还有就是平常在开庭的时候的一些表现还是要有一个积极处理管理的机制否则这个其实会对于当事人还有对于整个的司法的公正公信力会产生极严重的伤害所以希望司法院回去可以多注意这个事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7195.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7205.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
是好那以上就這樣謝謝好謝謝翁委員那也請那個相關單位把翁委員這邊有要求的書面資料那記得在一定的時間規定的時間內送達謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7219.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7232.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
好 謝謝 我們接下來請審發會委員發言那在審發好 接下來在黃洪對不起 我在宣告要程序事情在黃洪威委員質詢完之後呢我們就休息個五分鐘好 謝謝好 主席我們請部長好 先請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7250.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7268.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
委員好部長早我想我們今天這個會議今天特別來就這個特留分的這個制度兄弟姊妹的這個特留分的部分我們來進行這個專案報告專案會議那我們沒有直接就法案 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7268.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7285.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
的法條來排案我們是先就這個主題來做專案嗎我覺得這樣的安排是對的因為這個議題確實是需要一些討論如果說直接把法案證拿來審查那可能在也會在審查的過程中會出現一些一些焊格 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7286.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7309.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
那今天做這樣子的這個有關兄弟姊妹特留份的部分這個1223條的第一項第四款的這個是否要刪除的部分這個我們就我想剛剛其實前面的委員大家有討論我想說因為在討論過程中有一些機會沒有讓部長能夠做清楚的說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7310.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7323.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
我想這個還是最終我們要最溯源要回到這個所謂特留分制度設計的目的為什麼要特留分這種東西這個你如果按照現代民法的這個最高基本原則這個財產權神聖不可侵犯 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7327.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7348.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
那你這個所有權這個它的絕對原則那我自己的財產我死後之後我要怎麼處分照理講這是我的自由 遺族自由因為所有權神不可侵犯理論上是這樣子嘛那所以我遺族 我財產要給誰就給誰我要給路人也可以但是為什麼會有這種所謂特留份的設計 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7350.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7365.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
這個就是事實上在立法這個就是它牽涉到了這個所謂的家庭制度家庭倫理還有照顧者的生活保障他家人的一些生活保障的這一些考慮之後那至於 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7365.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7394.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
哪一些人應該要有我們給予他一些基本生活的保障一些保留哪一些人需要有特留份這個制度設計在取得我剛剛所講的這兩個目的就是遺族的自由跟這個繼承人的基本生活保障這兩個目的之間來取得哪一個點是平衡的是大家覺得說這些人應該要特別保留給這些人哪一些人不需要配偶大家認為應該要那子女 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7396.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7422.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
他應該要 祖父母要不要兄弟姊妹要不要這個就在看他平衡點取在哪裡這個我覺得是這個字今天這個會議討論的最最根本的這個這個目的啦那就有點剛剛林倩琦委員在質詢的時候提到這個離婚的這個門檻的問題一樣他還是在兩個價值之間去衡量去衡評在這個婚姻自由但是這婚姻不只是兩個人的事這個社會認知到你們是夫是是 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7423.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7451.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
是配偶關係之後他的所有的經濟行為等等所以你要保留婚姻的安定性所以這兩個婚姻對於社會的安定性跟婚姻自由這兩個橫屏之下的離婚門檻的設計跟這個特留份今天我們討論一樣也是就是這個橫屏的橫屏點要放在哪裡其實我們現在民法這個特留份的制度這個部長你知道是民國幾年立的法這個是民國20 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7453.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7481.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
19年民國19年他是在1920年1930年這是民國19年立法之後特留份部分就沒有修改過就是這樣對不對那當初這個設計其實在當初那時候的這個是在中國的立法在中國那時候立法中國的整個社會環境他的家族條件結構跟現在社會那是可能已經完全不一樣了但是在當初立法的時候其實是個進步的立法當初是以 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7482.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7504.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
我們是參考哪一國的立法令應該是參考歐陸法系列我們參考瑞士瑞士的特留份制度它是綜合德國跟法國的制度當初算是進步的立法所以我們當初是最進步的立法結果到現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7508.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7533.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
1930年到現在2025年已經快要100年了這個其實會引起社會這樣討論也就是因為社會確實制度變遷了很多當初我們是一個進步的立法但是現在我們環顧我們應該看外國的立法力到底兄弟姊妹的特留分在外國其他的制度到底還沒有在保留這個部分我覺得這個是我們今天要來探討的 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7535.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7556.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
剛剛翁委員提到說好像我們法務部在這個現在社會都已經這樣子我們立委也提案也好幾個立委提案要直接刪除這個兄弟姐妹的特留份那好像我們的法務部牛步話我們這個都腳步緩慢了但是事實上我個人認為我看事實上我們法務部並沒有這樣子牛步話第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7557.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7584.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
我們剛剛在一整個早上一直在講我們在105年的時候我們事實上就已經有提出整個民法繼承對不對 我們就有這個草案那個有 那個有送大院那時候已經送到立法院來審議了就是因為 借期不連續為什麼會借期不連續那時候的立法委員怠惰那時候立法委員怠惰說我們這個民法繼承篇的相關的修改送進立法院結果我們當時的立法委員怠惰不審讓他到借期不連續 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7585.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7605.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
當然不是 我們就回頭去看當初我們有沒有處理這個特留份的問題兄弟有沒有特留份 有去處理我們那時候去處理是我們把它降低特留份的比例我們那時候沒有全部刪除105年的草案是降低比例嘛但是降低 光是降低比例其實那時候在立法院的討論裡面就引起很大的爭議引起不同的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7606.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7620.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
那時候有什麼樣不同意見呢包括這些婦女團體還有一些部分的立委也認為說特留份現在這種特留份的這個部分尤其在台灣傳統社會這種男尊女卑常常會讓這個男性 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7622.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
7649.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
男性的這個讓兒子繼承然後讓女兒的部分就不繼承避免就是如果直接刪除兄弟姐妹的特留份或者是降低在當時的討論當時的討論婦女團體之所以很多婦女團體站出來質疑就是他們認為說你如果直接降低了這個特留份的話那時候只是降低不是刪除降低他們認為在這個子女性別的這個產分配上面會造成不公平的 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
7651.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
7677.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
狀況等等諸如此類不只這個有各種各種不一樣的意見所以那時候就放在那裡沒有辦法決定所以就最後拖過了那個會期就屆期不連續對不對是不是這樣是是是嘛所以有關這個兄弟姐妹這特留份的這的部分討論其實我們法務部有沒有牛部話呢就剛剛今天早上大家都問說你們到底態度怎麼樣你們的回答就是說你們現在有一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
7678.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
7705.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
委外的研究案委外的研究案這個委外研究案不是不只是針對這個兄弟姊妹的特留份吧它是範圍是繼承篇整個繼承篇整個大修整個繼承篇大修啦我所了解包括這個喪失繼承權的室友啦這個戴威繼承佐給財產的遺產分割生前特種證語等等什麼所有這些東西都納入在這個委外研究案那這個這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
7709.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
7728.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
好像說你們是牛步化被動但是我來看我看到這個時程其實你們並沒有說比較慢因為其實在這個公共現在這個廢除這個兄弟姐妹的特留份的保障的部分在公共政策網路平台那時候被提出提案的時候是 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
7730.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
7757.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
2025年4月29 我說今年的4月29今年4月29網路開始提案那提案 那個提案沒有通過在網路政策平台沒有通過第二次在這個8月31 8月底的時候在第二次的提案才通過了嘛但是我們的這105年不是105 我們這個委員研究案是什麼時候送的4月份 今年4月嘛事實上在網路提案之前連在政策平台提案之前我們就已經 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
7758.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
7785.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
就要檢討整個制度的那這個整個制度我個人是不太贊成說直接我們就很簡單的就把這個1.2.3條第一項第四款直接把它刪除把衝擊的條件直接拿掉就好我個人是不太贊成因為它有一些配套它其實真的有一些配套例如說我們把它拿掉之後那現在現在正在訴訟的這些案件它有沒有溯及既往 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
7787.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
7807.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
這不可能 這不會說起計劃我現在我直接刪除我直接刪除了這個說兄弟姊妹特留份 沒有了那現在可能細數的我現在還在細數的案件我可以直接引用現在新法說兄弟姊妹特留份已經沒有了 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
7808.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
7833.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
因為計程室死亡開始就發生計程我說不只這個啦不只這個你還包括說包括說這個撫養你這個剛才這個是好像是翁委員提到說有關於撫養義務的這個界定這個也是配套的部分所以我認為說光直接就立法委我們這些委員同仁提案直接把這個123條第一項 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
7836.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
7851.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
第四款刪除我個人認為說這樣立法是不太妥當的我認為說應該就按照法務部現在目前的步調我們反正今天現在已經12月了所以就是快要我們這個研究報告快要出來了研究報告出來之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
7852.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
7878.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
也不是說研究報告說什麼我們就怎麼做嘛你社會又會有不同的意見啊有關特留份的部分有一些是主張全部整個特留份制度都刪除的嘛這個聲音也有但是還是有像在105年立法的時候也有反對這個降低兄弟姊妹為了性別保障的考量反對這個降低兄弟姊妹特留份的意見也有啊那我們怎麼處理兄弟姊妹特留份 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
7879.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
7884.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
有的人認為應該直接刪除也有人認為降低比例就好有人認為說整個特留份制度都拿掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
7886.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
7913.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
這個有各種不一樣的意見所以我們研究報告出來之後理論上我們是應該要在召開會議聽取廣納社會不同的意見大家來凝聚共識以免到時候法案送進來在我們司法法治委員會誘大家不同的意見結果又卡在那裡我們任期也沒有剩幾年這屆期不連續到時候十年後的司法委員會召委那時候更年輕的翁小玲來說你們那時候為什麼沒有通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
7914.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
7938.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
對不對 所以我認為說應該這樣子啦應該按照這個方向那其實按照各國的立法例其實我們回頭看看各國的立法例其實跟我們社會制度最接近的日本 韓國都把兄弟姊妹的特留份拿掉了尤其是韓國最近 韓國在去年而已去年拿掉去年 而且他們宣告違憲而且立即失效 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
7939.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
7959.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
他們沒有再修法了違憲就立即兄弟姐妹特留份就是立即失效所以他們現在兄弟姐妹沒有特留份那這個我個人在最後一點時間我們在參考日本因為他們現在日本的高齡化社會比我們更嚴重比台灣更嚴重他們整個家庭結構都改變了 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
7960.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
7983.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
跟我們當初那種家族裡面他們甚至現在兄弟姐妹這個都已經不是重點了而是配偶死亡之後遺留下來的這個還存活的這個配偶他的生活保障變成他們最關注的部分所以他們會把兄弟姐妹特留份等等的拿掉所以他就不只他們財產部分他們還包括到他 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
7984.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8002.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
很多他到底連居住的地方的繼承等等這種整個社會結構家庭觀念的改變所以高齡配偶的生存的權利那自書遺囑的這個執行遺囑執行人的權限這些促進自書 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8003.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8021.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
促進這個自書遺囑的這些他們都有很多的配套那我是希望說我們在即將要出爐的這個研究報告出來之後我們整理我們幾個我們應該繼承偏我們應該因應現在也真的要修了我剛才民國19年到現在已經快100年的條文也應該要修了那我們來做一些全面的檢視 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8030.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8044.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
那把配合現代這個不同的家庭觀念不同的這個社會結構我們來做一個整體的這樣子的檢討我認為這樣是比較妥當的啦光就這個兄弟姊妹的特留份這樣來單獨處理我個人認為是會變成只是 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8049.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8060.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
沒有對症下 它就是我認為會有一些裡面有一些配套 會有一些後遺症那我這個在這裡以這樣子來期許榮法務部謝謝 謝委員好 謝謝沈委員那接下來我們請王洪威委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8074.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8082.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
好 謝謝主席我請我們鄭部長還有我們王蜂蜜署長好 請鄭部長還有王蜂蜜 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8089.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8104.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
我先請教副秘書長針對我們今天討論的要不要刪除兄弟姐妹特留份的修法的方向按照你們的報告基本上你們是贊成的對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8107.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8122.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
像委員報告就是我們大方向是贊同的但是如果是因為還要整個法規它有前後的整個一貫性還有一些細節的這些我們尊重法務部他們主責機關他們的職權 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8123.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8142.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
因為我看到你們的報告雖然頁數不多但是你們甚至從國際上剛才也特別提到那好幾個國家尤其像韓國還宣告是違憲的就是國際上很多都已經沒有兄弟姊妹特留份然後另外你們還舉出實際的案例 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8145.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8158.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
就是沒有子女他其實都要留給配偶那他們是共 就是他的房子結果那個配偶呢一位兄弟姊妹去就是爭取他的特留份最後這個配偶還要去還錢還要還錢給這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8162.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8184.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
所謂他的這什麼叫做他的不當得利所以搞到這樣子他根本他身後沒有辦法去照顧跟他一輩子的配偶所以你還以這樣的例子所以我看起來司法院是同意這個方向的但是相對部長法務部的報告看起來就保留因為你們是剛才已經談了非常多就以說你們現在還在要啟動修法 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8190.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8206.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
現在對我們來講就是我想請教部長過去曾經你們提議到就是有想說是降低特留份的比例而不是全數刪除所以請問一下你們會考慮是降低特留份的比例這個是你們的選項嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8209.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8233.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
这部分因为还在我们那时委托研究要请委托的这些的研究所以那个也是选项当然是选项之一当然是选项有四种因为这还做一个评估当然是维持一个是降低成熟比例一个就是删除是不是兄弟姐妹这部分那另外是不是全部废除 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8233.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8238.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
這邊還在做一個評估因為我們是法務部的主管法案的主管就對這一種更要廣大意見而不是我知道因為你們是主管機關不過我覺得現在看起來我們看很難得就是其實司法院跟你們的意見不大一樣他當然因為你是主管機關但司法院那個報告其實我們兩個報告我都對照過了 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8256.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8275.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
看起來司法院是贊成的因為他們可能從他們法院實際的這些相關的這些判決的實例所以我希望就是說基本上尤其還是這個意見我們討論很多我也曾經質詢過我希望你們能夠加速腳步另外 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8276.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8293.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
就是昨天很多委員都問到就是回收舊電鍋送給石荒老婦然後就被判刑這個案例其實引起社會非常大的震撼來 副秘書長也請來 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8295.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8298.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
我必須講這個案件事實上在被起訴的時候就得到社會大眾的關注很多人就認為說這樣一個案例要浪費我們的司法資源放著這麼多的詐騙不去查然後查這個查了半天最後是起訴 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8315.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8334.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
但是沒有想到到法院之後在昨天作出判決昨天作出判決之後還是以貪污自罪條例來判刑雖然是緩刑兩年但是還有褫奪公權所以很多的民眾我最近從這個事件發生以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8335.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8357.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
我很多其實久不跟我聯絡的朋友啊都突然來給我說這個太扯了吧怎麼會是這樣的呢台灣的司法發生什麼事情以這個案例來講一個這樣的案例不到33塊的電鍋我們檢察官大肆周章的起訴他這不是恐龍檢察官嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8358.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8376.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
另外到了法院已經得到社會大眾的關注法院繼續用貪污自罪條例來辦它這不是恐龍法官嗎所以很多人問我們請問一下我們的法檢到底發生什麼事情甚至我甚至有朋友說你們立法院在幹什麼吃的 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8377.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8402.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
怎麼會一次放任這個事情這樣子發生所以我們過去曾經談到部長就是為罪不舉就是非常小的案例我們能不能把我們檢查體系的大部分的資源能夠去辦我們社會真的關注的大案子那我們在法院裡面像這種案子然後你還可以給他判有罪所以我就在講舉啊我們今年年初 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8403.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8424.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
我們賴總統的親信陳忠彥涉及接受性招待這個監察院都還調查都很清楚有個陳董最後竟然以說這個陳董不代表就是陳忠彥輕輕放過監察院輕輕放過就算了然後到了法院被判無罪全身而退 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8425.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8450.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
所以這兩個案例比較起來一個涉嫌接受新招待一個是拿33塊電鍋去資助一個拾荒老人一個被判判無自罪條例齒多公權一個呢 被判無罪會不會太扯會不會太扯我們的司法有公平嗎好 另外我要有一個那個是這個狀況要再請教我不曉得 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8455.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8474.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
這件案子除了清潔隊員之外另外有一個案子我們在司法法治委員會也有委員質詢到也是在11月份這個是從我們的高院發動的因為一個雨傘 一支雨傘 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8476.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8488.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
檢察官偵辦一個在我的選區中山區公所雨傘遺失了然後呢 起訴一個婦人起訴婦人之後到了法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
8489.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
8514.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
法院判他無罪 因為法院說你給我的監視器也很模糊啊而且那個婦人也提出他當時根本不在場證明那所以呢 判他無罪結果啊 部長這個案例啊 我有委員在這邊質詢過我相信你一定知道啦你如果說不知道 我就覺得太扯我們檢察官不屈不撓的繼續上訴一枝雨傘 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
8516.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
8535.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
繼續上訴 上訴到高院高院法官直接的批評我們檢察官辦案完全違反比例原則這是來自於法院對於檢察官系統這次違反比例原則我們短短的時間裡面一支雨傘 一個電鍋 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
8540.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
8563.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
這樣子的讓我們的基層的民眾疲於奔命甚至啊我剛講這個雨傘連法官都認為說這個被起訴而且被上訴的這個婦人一年半糾纏在這個法律案件裡面他花的律師費已經遠遠高於這支雨傘了 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
8567.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
8587.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
所以我想請問現在有一些人權團體跟我們陳情說可不可以節制檢察官的上訴權過去我們在立法院裡面有一些討論它是比較可能屬於政治性的 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
8589.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
8616.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
羈押交保之後檢察官一直不停的上訴不停的上訴所以呢我們有委員提出要節制檢察官的上訴權可是我這邊所提到的是為我們的深斗小民我剛才講說像這個雨傘的案例一支雨傘一審已經判他無罪檢察官不屈不撓繼續上訴好再來還有呢也是一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
8619.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
8633.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
曾經發生台中餐廳就是在整修餐廳它燈具就散放在這個庭院裡面就有人就把它撿走了撿走之後一樣用竊盜罪起訴竊盜罪起訴之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
8637.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
8656.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
法院也是 他認為這個罪嫌不足 因為你就丟在這個地上很難說 可能他認為這個是 垃圾或怎麼樣 他就把他帶走了所以一樣法院 在一審判決的時候 一樣判他無罪檢察官不醫不勞 繼續上訴 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
8659.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
8687.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
所以我要講的是我未來我也會跟包含我們的司法我們法院體系還有跟法務部像這一類的案件非常小而且在法院裡面比如若若在法院裡面都已經判她無罪我不是說判無罪檢察官就不能上訴檢察官本來就有上訴權檢察官是有上訴權但是我剛舉的這幾個例子 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
8689.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
8702.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
就是他的罪很輕微然後也確實沒有在法官也認為他沒有足夠的證據之下然後我們檢察官本於他一定是已經自己有心證了嘛繼續不停的上訴 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
8704.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
8729.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
真的是違反比例原則真的浪費司法資源每個人都講說檢察官也很過勞 很血汗我們也覺得好辛苦所以你們只要爭取預算我們通通都支持法官也是暗讀牢行然後記一大堆的案件檢察官起訴他能不看這些卷宗嗎他也要看 是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
8731.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
8754.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
但是糾結在這種案件裡面我們會覺得我們的司法資源要浪費在這些案件裡面嗎然後搞得像這個基層的清潔人員搞得像這個基層的一個婦人在區公所被指為說她就是偷雨傘的人但是最後根本證據不足啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
8756.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
8784.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
所以我想請問一下副秘書長我剛才講的這個方向是不是可行也就是在即違罪而且在法院已經很明確的判處無罪之下有沒有辦法我們不管透過修法的方式或怎麼樣的方式去節制檢察官的這樣的一個上訴權 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
8786.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
8815.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
你覺得這方向可行嗎那謝謝委員的垂詢那檢察官的那個他們要不要行使那個上訴權這個部分法院還是得尊重他們的那個職權行使我知道啊 以現行來講是啊以現行來講是啊那另外檢察官是有上訴權啊但是其實結果上訴我這邊還其實很多例子啊很多這種很小很小的例子 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
8816.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
8833.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
我們可不可以讓檢察官大部分的時間去辦像中郵這種大案子去辦像那個太子集團詐騙的這種大案子這麼多詐騙部長 我們可不可以讓檢察官的精神他的力氣 他的時間去辦這些我們真的覺得應該要辦的案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
8836.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
8854.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
這個謝謝委員的一個寶貴的意見那個太子集團有兩波執行已經押了七個人了押了七個人那另外委員有關心的就上訴這部分我們會要求就是說因為我們有一個檢察機關辦理刑事訴訟應行注意事項那在134 135點 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
8857.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
8872.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
裡面有提到了就是上次雨火這部分我們會再提醒檢察官來注意你只能用提醒那這部分因為中長你說一百一你們之前就有那這個雨傘的案子是 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
8873.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
8888.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
不是以前的案子喔是最近喔11月高院法官才說你們根本就在違反比例原則不停的上訴時間太多了嗎這部我們會利用各種的場合我們今天也會請檢察機關來做一個督導就督導就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
8889.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
8906.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
在這個案件要注意法律情那個檢察長 檢察中長也有發要求各檢察機關在案件也就要重視這個法律情尤其是情窮法重的這些案件更是要去做一個注意那我想委員的提醒我們會再提醒檢察官 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
8906.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
8935.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
我覺得這種案子一而再再而三的爆發出來我們真的覺得司法機關怎麼這麼多不食人間煙火還是怎麼樣它是不是太閒了像電鍋案這部分我也跟委員很清楚政府提出要修法了我們盡快會完成修法電鍋那個事情趕快提出修法好不好我跟你講我必須講這個案子嚴重打擊司法威信檢查系統檢調系統也如此法院系統也如此昨天你們法院判決出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
8936.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
8957.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
還用用貪污自罪條例然後還說給他減刑這個減刑那個減刑他被褫奪公權耶因為在現行的那個體制下法院只能做那個這樣子的合法判決現行體制你們能不能改善呢就要從修法因為他就是一個修修法就趕快修嘛我再講說這個電鍋案在他被起訴的時候就已經社會化然 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
8964.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
8973.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
他說 蛤 一個33塊電鍋去資助人家 這種徹影之心然後現在講說 那不然請總統特赦這種案子該不該總統特赦 蛤 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
8980.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9001.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
總統特赦讓我們尊重總統的職權形式但是這個特赦要確定的案件來做他對案是確定的案件那這委員關心我想我們會趕緊完成修法的一個程序因為檢察官法官究竟是執法的人員司法人員他還是要依照法律你們什麼時候可以修什麼時候可以提出修法我們會趕緊修 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9005.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9030.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
什麼時候可以提出修法行政院已經對我們法務部提出的修正草案已經審訊了我想應該我們盡力再盡快來推動本會期可以送到立法院嗎本會期請你用這個案子真的應該用特級件因為有一個活生生的案例在這邊本會期送進立法院可以嗎這麼來努力好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9032.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9041.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
那請問司法院的部分呢就只有法務部來修對 因為這邊不涉及程序法它是實體法那個部分的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9043.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9062.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
所以你們沒有法可以修你們就悶著頭就去如果他沒有修法然後起訴過來最後判刑結果是如此當然有些法官對於這堆上訴繼續駁回這個案子法院已經盡了最大努力像這個案件裡面他動用了四次的減刑所以才能夠減到這樣子的刑度這還是你們用最大努力是 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9068.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9094.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
因為在現行實體法上它的構成要件就是一個犯罪行為我真的覺得我們的司法到底是什麼樣的大恐龍啊你們承不承認因為你們撇開你是法務部長撇開你是司法院副部長你覺得這案子扯不扯你們覺得離不離譜所以要從實體法上去解套啊好不好那就請法務部長加緊加緊速度好 謝謝謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9096.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9098.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
好 謝謝那我們中間休息五分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9437.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9448.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
好那麼我們現在繼續開會接下來我們請王逸川委員發言好謝謝主席我們請這個少年家事廳的廳長謝謝好請廳長 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9469.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9484.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
委員好好 廠長 因為你是廠長所以問你食物的你自己了解是複密署長不知道叫起來也不好不敢不敢來 我請問一下是就是回到這個要分財產的事情是我們今天要討論這個稍稍的遺產的事情一般當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9491.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9516.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
去到範圍裡面要講財產的事情可能有幾個情形我分類可能有幾個情形你看是不是要修正一下第一就是說今天晚上不好今天晚上要來分財產是很久沒看到兄弟姊妹是有本人來有的人明明人就是美國也叫律師來是 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9519.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9540.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
阿嬤那個 阿嬤沒結婚以後 阿嬤就沒她阿嬤就沒她 阿都他們的兄弟姊妹在照顧或是兄弟姊妹的配偶在照顧譬如說阿嫂在照顧 這樣喔到現在已經結婚的阿嬤也沒離婚 或是阿嬤也沒離婚 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9545.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9550.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
後來也要回到本財產這都有回過了現在看起來哪一種最多 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9555.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9576.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
那個委員最多的就是剛剛你提的這個平常沒有一起相處或撫養或照顧但是等到繼承事實發生的時候才回來要主張的這個是蠻多的那這些人他怎麼知道他可以主張 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9578.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9603.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
我們調查的結果通常是因為在這個就是所謂的被繼承人就是這一位可能要過世前他可能身體有狀況那這些相關的螃蟹血清之息那等到他過世以後他就會出來主張他 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9604.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9620.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
這個要繼承他的順位那包括特留份好 那這個時候到了法院去的時候法官會進行什麼樣的程序來確認比如說可能他嫁兵雙時就都怕他老爸或是老公就都怕老婆或是這個哥哥都怕弟弟結果就貴姓旗出名記錶外都知道外都知道嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9632.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9654.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
叫他回來搬的時候還是怎麼樣大家會覺得說這搬的都要把他打回來他還有一個小弟現在是一分不然叫他回來把錢搬給他小弟也會有這種情形是就是說大家都知道說這個人在照顧他沒有錯可是這個人就常常打他常常打他鄰居都知道這個人常常被打可是這個財產可能要分給他對吧那就會旁邊的人會看不慣 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9662.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
9678.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
看不慣搞不好就會建議用的 去跟人家說欸 那過星期了 你可以回來分財產不然都去給那個人打那個分分去也會有這種情形嘛 是是所以你們在法院實務上喔這種事情你們都法官要怎麼處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
9680.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
9706.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
報告委員有關於繼承的訴訟這樣的訴訟它一樣是屬於民事事件的一個法理所以要當事人進行主義兼有法官執權主義當事人進行主義就要由當事人來主張那麼如果被繼承人申請他有立遺囑他對於施暴於他的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
9707.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
9724.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
他主張 他就已經例有說這個人不能繼承 喪失繼承權這是一種另外一個是共同繼承的繼承人他也可以來跟法院來申請起訴叫法院來裁判某位喪失繼承權這個就是剛剛委員說的有一些不肖的 一直施暴那麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
9731.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
9750.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
他的處理方式有剛剛的第一種就是先立一組讓他喪失繼承權第二個就是共同繼承人他也可以起訴主張這個是喪失繼承權但這個要舉證不過法官也有職權探知的必要 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
9751.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
9775.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
以維護這個所謂人倫跟社會善良風俗這個是目前那至於說剛剛委員說的更嚴重就是說他就是想要來分財產而已結果造成真正在照顧被繼承人的一個配偶或者是兄弟姐妹或者是他的反而是因為這樣而被沒有辦法安心 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
9778.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
9800.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
安心立命的住在原來的這個被繼承人的遺產的房屋住所那這個部分其實是法定的印記份這些問題跟特留份的問題所以現在在考量修改是有必要的所以你這個這個東西我今天聽起來國際上大家要問一個國家的話如果聽起來我們想也沒有什麼共識對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
9808.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
9826.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
就是說這個兄弟姊妹的特留份有共識嗎目前我們所分析收集的世界各國的法例已經隨著時代變遷都把它修改為這個兄弟姊妹這一部分的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
9827.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
9852.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
特留份這個都把它修掉了就是它的繼承沒有修掉了那我國目前如果統合來看這個整個實務審判跟實際發生只有剩下三個部分它是可以例外補足的如果我們把它照國際的這樣的一個立法例把兄弟姊妹的繼承權就是繼承權跟印記本把它拿掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
9852.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
9859.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
但是相關的法還有規定譬如說生前受撫養的兄弟姊妹他可以請求走給遺產另外被所謂的在照顧兄弟姊妹的這樣一個兄長以兄代父來照顧身心障礙的兄弟姊妹等他可以預歷遺囑然後來將這些財產去照顧 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
9881.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
9893.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
譬如說這個小叔啦 小姐啊 感冒他哥哥也過星期 都阿嫂在照顧是都沒人在照顧 就這個阿嫂在照顧是這種的時候 我們現在在分財產跟分牛 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
9895.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
9906.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
OK 那這樣的情形因為他們的一個第一個我們說他不是直系血親他不是 他是姻親他是屬於姻親而且這個小叔就這個嫂嫂因為她的先生過世了 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
9914.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
9928.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
那我們的婚姻關係是因為這個這個所謂的婚姻人死亡那個婚姻關係就解消了婚姻關係解消但身份關係影響的這一部分所以直接要去繼承他 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
9929.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
9955.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
就是這一個嫂嫂照顧叔叔那叔叔過世了嫂嫂要去繼承他的財產除非是生前第一個是生前有玉立遺囑用遺囑的方式那因為這個生前嫂嫂是來照顧這個叔叔啦還是問題說他現在玉立遺囑對不對小姐家玉立遺囑都沒有這個大嫂嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
9958.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
9964.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
這小姐姐也有結婚啊還是小姐姐她媽不知道去哪裡去遊覽遊覽久了沒回來啊 也找沒人啊到時候被她媽 她媽回來說她可以搬嘛對不對啊叫家庭結婚我們說不是啊 都這個顏色在顧啊她媽就出國去遊覽久了都沒回來 這樣才有天理就是說會有這樣的 在社會上會有這樣的討論啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
9983.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10010.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
確實有 確實這花瓜要怎麼處理花瓜只能按照現有的規定現有的法律來裁判啦依照現有法律來裁判那配偶本來他就有繼承權而且他回來以後還要先計算那個夫妻剩餘財產把它分完以後再來處理遺產的一個繼承OK 我一件事這樣啦這個包括法務部跟司法委員以後接下來討論這案子的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10012.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10014.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
不然去做一個民調 我覺得這條沒有共識因為每個人遇到的個案都不一樣每個人的鄰居朋友講到那個案子就說那個什麼人過世了 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10027.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10033.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
他們現在都在增產 現在在訴訟什麼人叫什麼人來訴訟他們一個在日本託車的孩子還回來還有一個嫁去美國的 現在也嫁到蘇回來就是街頭巷尾 隔壁鄰居都在討論這種事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10042.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10064.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
我覺得這個沒有共識的情況之下這個大的原則也許可以聽聽人民的聲音他們有來提案的當然是一部分的人立法院的討論也是一部分可是這個社會上還是有很多這個法律在規範上就是說可能會漏掉或者是說我們立法院如果通過這個修法之後都叫社會沒事 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10066.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10079.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
因為有可能在這條巷子裡面就是有一戶他們的兄弟姊妹都不在照顧都什麼人在照顧結果我們通過這個法律整條巷子賣到死賣說你看上一戶那兄弟都不在照顧現在過了一星期還回到本宅室那些都離婚遺寵的這樣我們又繼續所以我是說這個討論既然沒有共識沒有共識那是不是就是不然做一個民調什麼會了解一下因為有時候決策專家他是去 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10096.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10110.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
做國際上的這些比較跟台灣現況也不一定相符了以上讓您參考 謝謝謝謝委員好 謝謝王委員那接下來我們請吳思堯委員發言謝主席 有請部長有請部長跟副秘書長有請副秘書長委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10125.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10152.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
大家辛苦了 已經備詢一整個早上那我也扣合著剛剛很多委員在垂詢的一個議題也是社會非常關心的為什麼一個救電鍋會變成貪污的重罪現在很多委員都說法外開恩為罪不舉但是法外開恩難道這個責任就是要求給我們的司法人員 檢察官 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10153.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10179.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
必須不起訴法官不能判刑好像就就責於司法人員依法來判案法外開恩第二個壓力又給了總統要請總統社會呼籲是不是大赦特赦什麼的但是我覺得法外開恩這件事情我們要回到第一個字叫做法法律怎麼定是不是法本身有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10180.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10203.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
我非常同意我也建議你們你們會針對小額的貪污去做一些法令的檢討可是我身為立法委員當立法委員一再的為了社會的個案很輕易的去指責恐龍法官 恐龍檢察官我們其實自己也要想想立法委員是不是成了恐龍立委 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10205.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10220.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
貪污治罪條例現有對於公務人員的貪污罪他確實設計的很重而且很沒有彈性對不對這是現況法是誰定的立法委員定的 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10222.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10241.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
立法委員自己定的法現在檢察官想方設法用各種方式想為這一個三十幾塊的電鍋這位清潔隊員想辦法給予不起訴但是因為法規定在那他沒有辦法達到還起訴不起訴的條件 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10245.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10270.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
法官也沒有辦法因為法就在那裡我們這個案子法官努力的給予幾次的減刑的努力幫委員四次是所以當立法委員在這裡因為一個社會案件很關心我也很關心我們要給溫暖法理情但是立委不要忘了自己要好好立法的這個責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10273.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10289.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
往往在立法院面對貪汙罪要求刑責加重加重不管比例原則一再的要求加重刑責的立法委員現在搖身一變變成大善人在這裡為這個個案要請總統給予特赦大赦 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10294.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10311.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
所以我覺得反求諸己法外開恩我們窮盡一切的努力針對特別的特殊型的個案想方設法找出那個法律溫暖的部分但是法外開恩法是誰定的 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10312.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10337.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
我們在場所有的立委也都應當好好來檢視是不是在很多的制定法律的時候單方面的要求加重刑責 下重刑責 加重刑責而讓該有彈性的部分沒了彈性這是我對這個案子的看法你們同意我的觀點嗎同意所以說比例原則是重要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10339.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10355.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
我希望我們委員在進行所有的議案的時候我更希望避免於為個案來要求指導要求怎麼樣剛剛有委員說這個案子檢察官起訴之後社會壓力已經開始罵了抨擊為什麼法官還要判 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10356.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10382.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
那意思是說所有的法官他在判任何案件的時候必然要受到社會意見的影響嗎這樣又是正向的嗎而檢察官跟法官他同樣必須承擔另外一個社會責任如果我這個案子被檢舉而不辦我會被說吃案對不對或者是我這個案子沒有依法去辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10384.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10402.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
然後可能給了不好的示範以後讓真的壞心的公務人員去用這種小額貪污的方式真的去侵佔了不應當屬於他的財物這不是檢察官想要達到他還是要有提升公務人員連能的這個社會責任嘛這個案子誰舉發的 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10408.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10437.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
跟委員報告這案件是民眾跟台北市環保局來檢舉的所以舉發單位是台北市環保局嘛好像這個案子也送到政鋒對 他然後就是北投分隊有先訪談那這個黃姓的被告有坦承這是有他個人坦承犯行他坦承 他有把電鍋吸出他那個外面去那北投分隊才簽辦來匯政鋒是後來才跟辦案機關來做一個自首的 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10437.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10452.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
好 我就是提供一個不一樣角度的思考當一個是台北市政府環保局還有政風市檢舉要求就是說已經循正式管道來舉發的案子檢察官也不能不辦嘛是 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10453.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10479.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
不辦了又被說成是吃案怎麼辦呢是變包庇犯罪當然這個案子本身我非常同意我們未來在法的本身更合理的來修正但是但是如果只是很急切的來就責於這些依法來審判的檢察官或法官我覺得可能也有失公允但是我認同這個案子我們要 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10481.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10506.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
我也很不敢 我也很心疼這是我北投的居民但是我是司法法制的委員我呼籲所有的立法委員在進行法律的修正的時候真的 我們都要橫平的去看守比例原則否則貪污罪就是那麼重每一次每個立委都加重 加重 加重公務人員就是不得貪污一旦貪污就是罪該萬死 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10508.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10536.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
然后这么重的罪导致于五年以上他连还起诉的机会都没有所以检察官跟法官是想方设法帮助这个个案但是现有的法律框架就有困难的确他那个因为还起诉要三年以上他这个是五年的五年以上所以没有空间所以事实上在侦办的时候检察官后来结案的时候也帮一直在求情检察官在求情法官也想办法减刑 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10537.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10562.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
所以这是一个我们不愿意面对到很心痛的个案未来立法院在修法的时候我正呼吁我们所有的立委我们就好好把小额贪污的界定大家能够很务实的去界定而不要到时候又冠上了谁什么帽子说谁在助长犯罪我觉得这样是不是理性讨论法律应当有的态度第二个刚刚说修法有善的修法跟恶的修法 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10563.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10586.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
為了剛剛這個電鍋的案件 我們針對貪污治罪條例來進行小額貪污的重新檢視我認為那是善的修法我們讓法律有溫暖 避免這種類似的個案再發生但是現在立法院發生了惡的修法 您知道嗎昨天國民黨團提案 禁負二讀 又是禁負二讀 委員會不用討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10588.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
10614.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
不當黨產處理條例立法委員國民黨委員的提案直接排除救國團他並不應當被認為是國民黨的附隨組織所以呢救國團依法被追討的這些財產黨產當初是侵佔國產民產的就可以順利的黨產復辟順利的不公不義了我認為這就是二的修法下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
10615.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
10643.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
而這個禁賦惡毒的案子會去侵害到北高行判決救國團已經敗訴的救國團61筆土地的建物16億的不當財產都要移轉收歸國有還財於民還財於國但是現在國民黨的委員就這個已經敗訴或者說持續在程序中的案子好了他還是可以持續進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
10645.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
10660.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
量身定制的修法而且是自私自利的為了自己的黨產來修法再一次用政治凌駕司法如果這個法修過了那現在辦到一半的案子怎麼辦啊部長我說這就是惡的修法嘛政治凌駕專業我問你專業的問題啊如果這個案欸救國團被修法排除了黨產那這個當初北高行的判決 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
10675.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
10702.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
怎麼辦我們尊重北高興的判決因為這是台北高等行政法院的一個判決我們尊重我們都尊重但我要提示修法有善的修法把法修得更好是更有溫暖更幫助這些弱勢的真的是特殊的個案去協助他就計他的權利但是有一種就是惡的修法為了自私自利的國民黨的黨產 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
10704.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
10720.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
然後要來修法來侵害了司法偵辦當中的案件這就是惡的修法下一頁今天的這個特留分的規定我們來看最後這個日本的那一頁好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
10722.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
10736.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
日本有個制度剛剛審發會委員有提到我們是不是能夠研議繼承貢獻制度的規定也就是說實質全新投入而且投入照顧的持續時間很長然後沒有對價關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
10741.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
10752.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
的這一種特殊貢獻制度把它來參照在繼承裡頭給予合理的分配你們在修法的過程是不是可以參考這樣子的方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
10754.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
10772.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
這部分我想的確日本的立法律可以提供給我們一個參考因為日本的法治跟台灣的法治本來就是有 遠遠是接近的那民情也比較接近那這部分我想我們會做一個參考的看看有沒有辦法融入 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
10772.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
10791.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
那我回到我的第三頁來 第三頁這一頁我也講一下下一頁就是說我確實認為這個民國19年定到現在的制度是應當因應時代的變遷要有所調整因為它造成了權力義務的不對等全球也很罕見剩下台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
10792.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
10797.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
我具體提出我支持可以往這方面修法來討論是民法11145條有個不肖條款你們知道嗎針對應撫養而未撫養未善盡撫養之責的人其實是可以剝奪喪失他的繼承權 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
10807.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
10834.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
所以說依民法的不肖條款即便是直系親屬但是你確定是你可能甚至還有虐待的行為對不對沒有善盡撫養之物你可能都被免除直系都會被免除可是旁系親屬兄弟姊妹完全未負撫養責任的卻都可以享有特留分的分配這是不公平之一第二個無子女者 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
10835.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
10858.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
會被兄弟姊妹繼承可是他雙他卻沒有辦法去繼承有子女的手足的財產這淪為一種單向的關係所以我基於很多的理由當然我自己也是一個單身沒有子女的人我認為我其實認為可以正向的討論但是剛剛王逸川委員的提醒也非常的 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
10860.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
10888.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
懇切我們在任何的修法不要再重蹈覆轍像我剛剛講的電鍋案在某個社會氛圍下某一種社會的討論聚焦於某一種類型可是會有其他的類型的眼神可能會開了一個小門可能就開了一個大窗或大門我認為都審慎研議我是支持可以討論但是特留分要怎麼樣去把制度設計得更好 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
10889.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
10915.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
我覺得大家需要挺看挺好嗎 我最後時間到來 部長要補充一個提醒委員剛才提出的提到的寶貴的一個意見我們會一併來做一個檢討好 謝謝辛苦 謝謝謝謝主席好 謝謝那接下來請鄭振淺委員鄭振淺前委員鄭振淺前委員不在請楊瓊英委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
10919.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
10932.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
楊瓊英委員楊瓊英委員不在再請蘇清泉委員蘇清泉委員蘇清泉委員不在接下來我們就請莊瑞雄委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
10944.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
10965.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
謝謝主席有請我們法務部正部長還有我們司法院王副秘書長請部長跟王副秘委員好部長還有副秘書長 庭長也上來了今天招牌排的這一個題目不來捧場都不行了不然我其實是身體很不舒服了但我這兩天我是這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
10967.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
10995.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
就一直在思考這個問題這個不敢說輾轉反側但是我就把時間一直把它倒流說我們當年制定這部法令還有其實在105年就2016年我們同樣在這個地方在這個整個基層篇的時候清楚基層篇我們這整個修訂的時候特留份的問題那到底要怎麼來做解決的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
10996.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11015.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
本席特別去調閱了紀錄就是說在2017年3月13號那個時候網絡部的次長陳明堂說過了在這個地方講說有人主張完全不要特留份但我們採漸進的方式不要全部刪除但降低特留份的一個比例 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11016.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11032.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
那這個當然可以代表說當105年的時候差不多法務部的一個立場那這個立場其實在當初是大家朝野大家覺得說也不錯啦從過去來看你現在在看這個繼承的一個難題 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11033.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11053.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
它是一個不公平的法律呢還是不夠周全的一個改革呢這個其實特留份的制度的探討是真的很值得大家來做一個思考因為這個也沒有牽扯到過度的一個政治的一個攻防外界當然有提案的一個主張下一頁看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11056.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11080.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
那過去你就把它看法律是停留在整個宗族的一個互助你說民國19年法律這樣的一個制定其實當初確實是一個大家庭 宗族的社會兄弟姊妹確實也住在一起那共同來耕作 尤其是鄉下那法律就是把這個把這整個家當成一個競技的一個共同體請問就是整個來 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11081.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11085.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
因為才會得成就一戶嘛我們這個年代都成就生死的那是不要有本價的我保證你會笑你就知道整個圍就是根本圍都沒本價但是到最後你長大啦父母親強制給你家裡啦給你本價講一家啦家裡泡麵可是到了2025年你說現在社會的一個現實裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11100.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11120.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
确实你说顶客族有的不婚不生的甚至于他终身独居的也越来越多那你这个成年手足各自独立了那关系确实是变得比较疏离兄弟之间可以讲说是各自在登山也不是互相在扶持 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11121.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11145.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
可是你再去把它想一想我們現行法律的一個規定116條兄弟姊妹之間他確實還是互相照顧的一個義務就是有互相撫養的一個義務那所以呢你說我們今天繼承的制度的一個精密的齒輪去把它看說應濟分跟特留分的部分因為應濟分的部分如果沒有立議主法律預設分配的一個比例 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11146.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11163.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
那如果特留份你就算有利益組法律強制為特定繼承人來保留最低的一個繼承額那只修一個齒輪你整部機器還是沒有辦法順暢的去做一個運作我看今天這當然就大家在討論這個陳松勇的一個案件來繼續往下來看 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11164.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11185.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
那程雄勇這個案件是當然他是立了一個都有遺囑的一個單身者來講的話那特留份就變成了一個對遺願的一個阻礙財產對當事人來講的話理論上說我有多少財產我生前我愛怎麼處分我就可以怎麼處分你本來就是要尊重 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11186.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11214.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
我今天賺了多少錢我看到誰很開心我看到翁小玲給十億看到謝亦鳳給二十億我還沒死掉那是我的權利啊我的權利啊突然死掉那一天就變成我自己的我自己的財產的一個自主一個所有權人我就失去了這也很奇怪可是我想當初這樣的一個設計就是在講宣告兄弟姐妹是家族的一環 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11216.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11236.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
我把這一次贊成跟反對理由我想了三天我自己個人去想那是我自己的一個感觸我都會覺得說你馬上去把兄弟姐妹的特留份你去把它給廢除掉會產生一個社會上的一個衝擊大家也必須要去思考一下我這個比較老派 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11237.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11266.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
我不能用我的意见可是我是认为说你如果说去把它给删除掉也会有一个后遗症好像是向外界宣示兄弟姐妹没那么重要我担心这个我担心这个所以你看我们的整个法律的我们的继承篇在修订的时候你就有第一顺位第二顺位第三顺位兄弟姐妹就第三顺位如果说我们现在讲特留份如果没有应记份的话你根本就不会有特留份 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11268.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11281.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
我前面如果順位我是有配我的話我有子妻血清費金屬的話就是我有兒子有子女的話根本就輪不到兄弟姐妹來繼承輪不到所以你真的沒有不是在一個這個繼承人 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11282.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11299.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
没有这个应激分的时候你就不用去考论到这个了那如果说被继承人他死亡以后他留下这些财产你说今天要讨论刚好他都没有第一顺位第二顺位了兄弟姐妹跳出来了这要不要来尊重拥有财产者 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11300.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11323.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
他財政要去打拼來財政要怎麼處理這當然是一個好問題但是也因為我們有這個法務部在十年前我們在修法的時候提出這樣說我循序漸進來我覺得是合理的我們隔壁的韓國你說他去憲法法庭去宣告兄弟姐妹這個特留份的部分它是違憲在韓國來講的話他認為通啊以現在台灣社會來看的話你也不能說這樣是不對啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11329.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11350.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
你就像在德國這個富民社長就最熟了那德國的法律裡面兄弟姐妹他根本就沒有特留份的他根本沒有特留份可是以在台灣來看的話從過去我們從19年到現在將近100年的時間我們保留這部的一個法律你再看看我們隔壁其實我們這個整個親屬篇跟繼承篇我們受到日本的影響會更大 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11351.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11362.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
那受到他們的影響更大的話是不是我們也可以去學習啊我們也可以去學習啊就確實是我們不要用扣的啦不要說誰這個部分就把它給扣掉了你把它加進來可是你有沒有貢獻呢你有貢獻 我就覺得說你對於你像譬如說你這可以解決長照妹妹的那種困境讓有貢獻的在沒有這個遺囑的時候可以得到更多所以我們的解方啊就是不是只有檢法啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11380.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11403.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
也可以有加法就變成說它是整套的來下一頁再來看一看那就是說貢獻分制度把孝心都把它給算進來這個當然就是說要看我們立法院到最後大家趙偉的智慧趙偉你擺這個看大家的智慧就是來算進一套裡面不要貿然的讓人家覺得說 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11405.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11417.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
兄弟姐妹是一個秀我唯一擔心的就只有這個而已我唯一擔心的就是說這個法令你一做修改以後大家會覺得說你沒說不會的我也覺得我反覆思考這幾天我也覺得你要把它修下去你說單純解決財產把它修掉這位創業大不大不大 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11425.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11440.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
哪會有多大因為真正會產生這個問題的是我就前面就講過了你會有特略分問題是因為你必須要前面有因激分的問題你會沒有配偶沒有這個子女才會你這個兄弟姐妹才會跳上來不然的話你說這種情況就在社會已經變少了兄弟姐妹會有機會來繼承到財產本來就很少了 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11450.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11469.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
對社會衝擊財產的部分不大但是會對於說兄弟姊妹之間的關係對社會會不會產生衝擊這個是我比較我這一輩的人比較老派的人的顧忌我會有這樣的一個擔憂也一併給他來做一個思考那剛好 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11470.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11486.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
日本 我們隔壁的日本他們有這樣的一個法制所以我今天這個雖然人不太舒服但是這個召委提出這樣的一個排這樣的一個議程我是覺得非常有意義啦所以我的結論就是說該當法務部有委託嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11490.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11496.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
在修訂一個法令的時候涉及到整個社會是不是有所衝擊的時候確實該去研究 該去公聽把你們委託的案子請問部長你們是什麼時候就委託了 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11505.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11525.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
4月份委託今年4月份委託今年4月份12月底會提出12月會提出來12月底那這一些其實也很多很多委員今天的一個關心我相信召委會提出來就是想聽聽大家的意見大家及時廣益那我們也期待法務部家可以可以盡量盡量讓一個一個法律制度的一個變革可以讓它更面面俱到比較保守的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11534.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11555.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
比較擔心的人你像我比較擔心的人我會覺得說是不是再思考一下我不反對嘛我對你說特留份你說真正全部把它廢除的話財產爭議對社會產生這種衝突很少我擔心的是整個法治面會動搖到整個兄弟姊妹之間的關係你說很多人說你這兄弟姊妹你那邊都是我們沒在照顧的幾十年都沒在聯絡啊很多社會是這樣子沒有錯啊可是啊兄弟姊妹這幾個字像我就好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
11564.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
11594.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
恨不得我更有能力去把我周遭的兄弟姐妹我的家族照顾得更好啊我们老一辈的人这一辈的人的想法是这样子啊更年轻的人的想法是说一人一箱袋你怕什么你也不怕你死好啊这样想法的人也有啊但是我们这个是整个继承的一个制度走了快一百年了要把它修订可以别的国家也有我们也可以跟冲击也不大但是我比较担心的就是修法下去以后好像宣告兄弟姐妹 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
11595.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
11618.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
再來就沒有那麼重要了 以上提出因為在立法院本來就是不同的看法大家互相提出來 大家做一個切磋 互相做一個參考柏廷我這樣說可以啦 我不知道 無名 簡單給我回應一下謝謝委員 曾知卓堅的那個指導那我們會廣泛的再去思考跟研議 謝謝是啦 真的廣泛的思考跟研議啦因為這一題來講的話 早晚一定最熟的嘛德國確實是沒有嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
11622.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
11649.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
旁邊的韓國好像他們也宣告了我們日本又有其他很多國家都有我們貿然這樣子要學別人沒意見但只是說讓他更充分大家不同的意見既然有研究案我倒很想看看研究出來是怎麼樣的案子好不好 謝謝謝謝鍾委員那麼也再請法務部要盡速的把你們研究的結果提供給立法院委員們大家做參考因為這個議題的確是 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
11651.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
11667.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
備受社會關注那麼從民國19年執行特留份的制度到現在為止已經也很多年了時代在改變但是我覺得莊委員講的也很有道理確實一個法律制度的變動它可能會影響到整個社會關係社會倫理的關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
11669.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
11692.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
所以我們很期待這個法務部要禁訴12月底之前就可以把報告然後送交到我們委員會這邊好不好讓我們可以先先賭為快吧好不好12月底嘛對只要你們那個委託報告出來之後就先讓我們大家委員們就先賭為快可以吧好好謝謝那接下來呢我們就請謝依鳳委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
11702.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
11710.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
謝謝主席 我想要請我們鄭部長跟王複蜜請鄭部長跟王複蜜好 兩位早安 我是特別來的因為我已經很久沒來這裡我是為了一個清潔隊員他送了32塊的回收電鍋給石荒的老婦 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
11730.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
11751.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
那我也跟法界的朋友討論了這個相關的我也問了說是不是要進行相關的修法但是我還問他說討論一下說多少錢才是比較合理的因為我看到很多人都在已經在連署了嘛那在討論說多少的金額但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
11752.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
11761.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
他們給我一個很重要的意見我也在這裡來救教兩位如果鄭部長你現在還是檢察官的話你會起訴這個清諜隊員嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
11765.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
11784.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
跟委員報告要看那個證據因為它這一件那個清潔隊已經自首犯刑了所以已經自首犯刑所以一定會要按照法律的規定來處理了那當然這一件因為它涉及的犯罪是貪污自罪條例六條第一項第三款的那個侵佔 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
11785.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
11809.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
持有的非公有物它那個徒刑是五年以上所以既然自首犯刑而且那麼明確所以沒有空間當然我們如果說可以反起訴我們就反起訴因為反起訴是三年以上不是三年以上就可以了即便是 我問了其他的意見我覺得這其實不只是在修法的問題而是在檢察官跟法官 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
11809.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
11838.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
在審判的過程當中起訴跟審判過程當中跟社會的觀感的這個落差然後那當然他有實質的他有構成的要件在這個這個上面也許這個清潔隊的人有上述構成的要件但是在實質的犯罪的時候那這個東西是不是就阻卻他實質罪責的這個部分我認為檢察官跟法官是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
11840.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
11863.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
對於是否有這樣的罪責你們應該可以提出相關你們自己的心證因為這跟社會上面的觀感跟落差實在很大尤其是一個32塊的回收電鍋跟一個好像圖利他人的3200萬的罪是一樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
11867.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
11896.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
那在這個情況下我認為如果在不修法的情況下目前的司法界的這個教育怎麼樣子讓檢察官讓法官就直接在就是在地檢署在法院裡面就把這個問題就解決掉啦就不用到修法不知道什麼時候才會修好啊是不是你們在這個東西其實我認為在地檢署在法院都可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
11897.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
11925.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
自己就解決掉了 是不是王富密 要不要謝謝委員垂詢其實委員點出了一個那個法律上一個很重要的一個概念跟議題就是實質違法性就是說我們現在討論都說對 這個有構成要件對 《貪污之罪條例》它的構成要件都已經構成了那確實那個實質違法性就是說它如果說那個法益 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
11926.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
11951.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
整個社會價值大家都會覺得說那個非常非常那個輕微的時候當然它會有這一層那當然這個個案我覺得我們尊重那個法院可是如果說我們就通案來講的話就是說以前我們年輕的時候讀書的時候就是去談這個問題的時候都會舉例說你把人家一張的那個白紙就是把它給那個侵占走了就是說這個好像是不是沒有社會上不會認為說這個構成一個犯罪 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
11953.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
11972.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
但是這裡有一個區別就是說它這是一個侵占公務通常我們對於侵占公務會比較謹慎跟保守譬如說我們大家都在公家機關服務我們可以領一些東西如果領了這些東西如果認為是30還是50還是100我們認為這個東西不構成犯罪的話有時候對於公務員的這種連結性我們怎麼看待 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
11983.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12011.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
當然可是我現在在講的就是社會觀感對於這個問題就是當然這跟拿就是我們墨水匣啦或者是紙張啦這個是不是相同並論因為它都是在法律含色上面都是一樣同樣的東西我知道都是侵佔了一個公務對那所以這個部分我想所以為什麼我也提出王澎玉是就是說為什麼現在這個法院的法官他也不敢 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12012.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12033.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
不判啊 判無罪啊有可能有可能你也擔任過高等法院的法官嘛那你也知道如果他判無罪有可能他也會說也會被高院說他違反了罪行法定主義是不是他也可能就發回更審那在這樣子的情況下他就 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12035.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12063.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
這個初審的那個法官他就就輕判嘛他認為他輕判啦可是對於一般的公務人員對於一般的民眾而言當然大家就會覺得說這只是一個好像良善的善意的表現那反而造就了公務人員以及我們一般民眾沒有辦法展現善意的表現是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12063.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12088.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
我想委員 所以我想那個整個還是要從立法上 就是實體法上去著手就是說有關於貪污之罪條例裡頭的這個法定性這麼重有沒有那對於這一種就是違罪的這一種貪污事件怎麼樣讓它那個法定性降低或者是免刑因為這樣子的話就是才有辦法實質解套那你們現在有方向嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12089.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12118.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
那個法務部他們在修法那我在這邊在利用這個時間我剛好接這個講就是說憲法那個保障法官可以獨立審判前提是他叫依法獨立審判所以說法官在這個案件裡頭他是完全依照我們的憲刑法那至於說憲刑法要不要檢討我想這個是可以大家可以即時廣義的一個議題對可是也有判例他是判無罪的嘛是不是過去有判例是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12124.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12148.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
那跟委員報告那個法務部是那個法案的主管機關那這部分我們因為我們長久大家有注意到這個問題所以我們在已經提出修正草案就是針對那個小兒的這些貪污的像五年五萬以下的這部分目前法律是減輕其刑那個空間沒那麼大所以這次這個案件電光剪了四次 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12149.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12170.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
剪了四次他當然也剪到不用關嘛在兩年以下三個月他有反省但是我們認為是這樣是不夠的所以我們有在一個豁免處提醒給法官有更大的一個空間那我想這部分那個行政院已經審訊了那我們想我們我想會盡快送到立法院來審理好不好 這種東西好像讓民眾覺得說 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12172.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12187.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
就是沒有辦法表現就情情惶重的問題的確困擾司法界沒有辦法表現他們就是說對於一些需要幫助的人那如果今天一個首長他拿了他自己在那個就是說可能拿到的水果什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12188.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12205.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
送給一般的就是需要的民眾那這樣子是不是也是這樣子的情況那這也會讓他們讓大家都不敢就是對民眾表示良善那對於需要幫助的人沒有辦法表示良善的話那我覺得這個社會也不會更好好不好 謝謝謝謝委員好 謝謝謝委員那麼最後是陳冠廷委員陳冠廷委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12216.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12241.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
陳冠廷委員不在好那現在所有登記發言的委員都已經發言完畢那今天的詢答結束委員質詢的時候要求提供相關資料或者是以書面答覆那麼就請相關機關盡速送交給個別委員以及本會好的那麼本次會議就到此結束現在散會謝謝大家謝謝部長謝謝王福敏 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12243.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12244.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
我已經提案囉 |