iVOD / 170909
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林楚茵 @
| Start Time | End Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00:00,000 | 00:00:02,000 | 是 |
| 00:00:15,000 | 00:00:18,000 | 謝謝主席 主席有請張貝提名人 |
| 00:00:18,000 | 00:00:21,000 | 請張貝提名人 貝徐 |
| 00:00:21,000 | 00:00:23,000 | 請 |
| 00:00:29,000 | 00:00:30,000 | 這位您好 |
| 00:00:30,000 | 00:00:31,000 | 您好 |
| 00:00:31,000 | 00:00:34,000 | 在研讀過您的資金曆之後 |
| 00:00:34,000 | 00:00:36,000 | 我知道其實您非常的關注 |
| 00:00:36,000 | 00:00:38,000 | 有關於兒少權益的部分 |
| 00:00:38,000 | 00:00:40,000 | 尤其是兒虐的部分 |
| 00:00:40,000 | 00:00:43,000 | 那麼所以我想要就這部分來救教您 |
| 00:00:43,000 | 00:00:46,000 | 因為本席其實也非常關注就是兒童 |
| 00:00:46,000 | 00:00:48,000 | 尤其是兒少 |
| 00:00:48,000 | 00:00:51,000 | 不論是性侵誘或者是不當對待的部分 |
| 00:00:51,000 | 00:00:54,000 | 我知道您在2022年曾經針對幼兒園 |
| 00:00:54,000 | 00:00:57,000 | 不當對待做過所謂通案的調查 |
| 00:00:57,000 | 00:00:59,000 | 那麼在這個調查過程當中 |
| 00:00:59,000 | 00:01:01,000 | 您總結了幾個部分 |
| 00:01:01,000 | 00:01:04,000 | 包括就是法規跟調查的機制缺口 |
| 00:01:04,000 | 00:01:09,000 | 從這個地方政府再到相關的這個法規的不一致性 |
| 00:01:09,000 | 00:01:13,000 | 常常會有出現在處理的機制過程當中 |
| 00:01:13,000 | 00:01:17,000 | 所謂的整個調查的程序不一致 |
| 00:01:17,000 | 00:01:21,000 | 另外當然就是稽查的量能的部分 |
| 00:01:21,000 | 00:01:23,000 | 尤其在您的報告當中 |
| 00:01:23,000 | 00:01:26,000 | 我特別發現您非常仔細的針對全國 |
| 00:01:26,000 | 00:01:28,000 | 6885家的幼兒園 |
| 00:01:28,000 | 00:01:32,000 | 但是事實上只有125位的稽查人力 |
| 00:01:32,000 | 00:01:35,000 | 而超過五成是沒有專業背景 |
| 00:01:35,000 | 00:01:39,000 | 而令我們感到其實非常震驚的一個數字 |
| 00:01:39,000 | 00:01:43,000 | 就是在地方政府的稽查表當中 |
| 00:01:43,000 | 00:01:47,000 | 對於兒童遭到不當對待的部分 |
| 00:01:47,000 | 00:01:51,000 | 其實很多地方政府並沒有納入這相關的部分 |
| 00:01:51,000 | 00:01:56,000 | 那麼對於這些該改進或者是補強的部分 |
| 00:01:56,000 | 00:01:59,000 | 針對您在擔任監委到現在 |
| 00:01:59,000 | 00:02:02,000 | 我們知道監察院在7月31號 |
| 00:02:02,000 | 00:02:06,000 | 目前是已經算是整個沒有辦法再進行運作了 |
| 00:02:06,000 | 00:02:10,000 | 可是在您過去一屆擔任監委的部分的時候 |
| 00:02:10,000 | 00:02:13,000 | 您認為您所在調查報告當中 |
| 00:02:13,000 | 00:02:15,000 | 所提出來的這些部分 |
| 00:02:15,000 | 00:02:18,000 | 地方政府有做到改善嗎 |
| 00:02:18,000 | 00:02:20,000 | 另外就是我們知道 |
| 00:02:20,000 | 00:02:25,000 | 最近受到民眾非常關注的像是凱凱案 |
| 00:02:25,000 | 00:02:31,000 | 又或者是這一陣子發生在台中市的這種所謂教練不當 |
| 00:02:31,000 | 00:02:35,000 | 對待我們這些學生的這種性侵案件 |
| 00:02:35,000 | 00:02:37,000 | 又或者是台北市政府 |
| 00:02:37,000 | 00:02:41,000 | 現在被認為是蓋牌的這個夏立思案 |
| 00:02:41,000 | 00:02:47,000 | 這些案件的發生其實都是在2022年的報告之後 |
| 00:02:47,000 | 00:02:51,000 | 所以其實我相信對於關注兒少議題的人來講 |
| 00:02:51,000 | 00:02:55,000 | 都會覺得說那麼監察院做了這些報告之後 |
| 00:02:55,000 | 00:02:58,000 | 地方政府如果依舊不作為的時候 |
| 00:02:58,000 | 00:03:03,000 | 那麼監委到底能不能發揮他的功用跟他的功能 |
| 00:03:03,000 | 00:03:04,000 | 好的 |
| 00:03:04,000 | 00:03:06,000 | 首先我想非常高興 |
| 00:03:06,000 | 00:03:11,000 | 在關於兒虐的案子可以從不同的立法以及監察的角度 |
| 00:03:11,000 | 00:03:13,000 | 大家能夠一起努力 |
| 00:03:13,000 | 00:03:15,000 | 這是我感到非常高興的事情 |
| 00:03:15,000 | 00:03:18,000 | 那現在就是關於這個兒虐的相關機制 |
| 00:03:18,000 | 00:03:21,000 | 其實不管是凱凱案 |
| 00:03:21,000 | 00:03:22,000 | 這個我個人參與的 |
| 00:03:22,000 | 00:03:25,000 | 或者您剛剛提到的這樣不當管教 |
| 00:03:25,000 | 00:03:27,000 | 它是一個系列性的一個部分 |
| 00:03:27,000 | 00:03:30,000 | 那我個人都有參與以及包括其他的 |
| 00:03:30,000 | 00:03:33,000 | 那其實我個人在處理案件後 |
| 00:03:33,000 | 00:03:35,000 | 我個人也會看一下 |
| 00:03:35,000 | 00:03:37,000 | 其實個案有他個案的問題 |
| 00:03:37,000 | 00:03:39,000 | 而產生機制的維持 |
| 00:03:39,000 | 00:03:42,000 | 但是當很多案子在一起的時候 |
| 00:03:42,000 | 00:03:45,000 | 他就會看到是比較全貌的問題 |
| 00:03:45,000 | 00:03:49,000 | 所以首先我大致上我看到的一個就是說 |
| 00:03:49,000 | 00:03:50,000 | 第一個就是說 |
| 00:03:50,000 | 00:03:53,000 | 因為我們常常法源是基本的 |
| 00:03:53,000 | 00:03:55,000 | CRC或者是兒少權法 |
| 00:03:55,000 | 00:03:57,000 | 我們講兒童最佳利益 |
| 00:03:57,000 | 00:03:59,000 | 但什麼是兒童最佳利益 |
| 00:03:59,000 | 00:04:01,000 | 包括我們看到都沒有落實 |
| 00:04:01,000 | 00:04:04,000 | 像社安網的一組則多協力 |
| 00:04:04,000 | 00:04:08,000 | 其實凱凱案貪是在三個服務體系之下 |
| 00:04:08,000 | 00:04:09,000 | 都還受虐致死 |
| 00:04:09,000 | 00:04:11,000 | 它是令人痛心至極的 |
| 00:04:11,000 | 00:04:14,000 | 是它等於是一層一層的防護網 |
| 00:04:14,000 | 00:04:16,000 | 其實全部都失靈了 |
| 00:04:16,000 | 00:04:18,000 | 從地方政府再到稽查員 |
| 00:04:18,000 | 00:04:19,000 | 再到造福的單位 |
| 00:04:19,000 | 00:04:22,000 | 是是所以你空有這些機制 |
| 00:04:22,000 | 00:04:23,000 | 可是你失靈了 |
| 00:04:23,000 | 00:04:24,000 | 這就是一個很大的問題 |
| 00:04:24,000 | 00:04:26,000 | 再者還有訪視 |
| 00:04:26,000 | 00:04:28,000 | 能不能確實一個落實 |
| 00:04:28,000 | 00:04:30,000 | 還是只是刑事 |
| 00:04:30,000 | 00:04:33,000 | 再者還有像有些父母他有要引的 |
| 00:04:33,000 | 00:04:34,000 | 他有要引 |
| 00:04:34,000 | 00:04:36,000 | 你要有一個風險的預報 |
| 00:04:36,000 | 00:04:38,000 | 叫預警制度 |
| 00:04:38,000 | 00:04:39,000 | 可是這個部分 |
| 00:04:39,000 | 00:04:41,000 | 衛政跟社政我們看到會有斷點 |
| 00:04:41,000 | 00:04:43,000 | 再來一個就是稽查 |
| 00:04:43,000 | 00:04:45,000 | 其實稽查涉及到 |
| 00:04:45,000 | 00:04:47,000 | 常常說我們說稽查不利 |
| 00:04:47,000 | 00:04:49,000 | 其實稽查涉及很多層面的問題 |
| 00:04:49,000 | 00:04:50,000 | 一個是人力 |
| 00:04:50,000 | 00:04:52,000 | 這個是我們在調查案件裡面 |
| 00:04:52,000 | 00:04:54,000 | 很多地方政府都一再被提出 |
| 00:04:54,000 | 00:04:56,000 | 可是一再沒有被改進 |
| 00:04:56,000 | 00:04:57,000 | 就是人太少了 |
| 00:04:57,000 | 00:04:58,000 | 而且他人太少 |
| 00:04:58,000 | 00:04:59,000 | 他人太少 |
| 00:04:59,000 | 00:05:01,000 | 你就會沒有專業的問題 |
| 00:05:01,000 | 00:05:03,000 | 稽查不是你去查就好 |
| 00:05:03,000 | 00:05:05,000 | 你不同的案型他要有專業的 |
| 00:05:05,000 | 00:05:08,000 | 再者就是說他還是要專任 |
| 00:05:08,000 | 00:05:10,000 | 因為很多他是流動的 |
| 00:05:10,000 | 00:05:12,000 | 你流動的就沒有專業 |
| 00:05:12,000 | 00:05:14,000 | 所以就是說我現在就來查一次 |
| 00:05:14,000 | 00:05:16,000 | 我下次就不是我了 |
| 00:05:16,000 | 00:05:18,000 | 所以都會產生這些問題 |
| 00:05:18,000 | 00:05:21,000 | 所以這都是我們在兒女案件裡面 |
| 00:05:21,000 | 00:05:23,000 | 有看到的很多缺失問題 |
| 00:05:23,000 | 00:05:25,000 | 那這些缺失問題 |
| 00:05:25,000 | 00:05:27,000 | 我們其實是有藉由後續的追蹤 |
| 00:05:27,000 | 00:05:29,000 | 我們希望能夠達到 |
| 00:05:29,000 | 00:05:31,000 | 因為行政機關他們要改進 |
| 00:05:31,000 | 00:05:34,000 | 好其實我覺得監察院的存在 |
| 00:05:34,000 | 00:05:37,000 | 就是要要求行政機關 |
| 00:05:37,000 | 00:05:39,000 | 不可以覺得說我行政就最大 |
| 00:05:39,000 | 00:05:42,000 | 當你在行政帶動的時候 |
| 00:05:42,000 | 00:05:44,000 | 後面還有監察院會針對 |
| 00:05:44,000 | 00:05:48,000 | 你們在行政權上的為師來做監察 |
| 00:05:48,000 | 00:05:50,000 | 但是本席大家為什麼特別提到了 |
| 00:05:50,000 | 00:05:53,000 | 台北市發生夏立思這樣的事情 |
| 00:05:53,000 | 00:05:55,000 | 根據2023年案發到現在 |
| 00:05:55,000 | 00:05:58,000 | 台北市政府的1999已經收到了 |
| 00:05:58,000 | 00:06:00,000 | 13件的懲刑 |
| 00:06:00,000 | 00:06:02,000 | 但是台北市政府都沒有積極的作為 |
| 00:06:02,000 | 00:06:05,000 | 直到他同樣的一個系統發生了問題 |
| 00:06:05,000 | 00:06:07,000 | 而且家長站出來 |
| 00:06:07,000 | 00:06:10,000 | 才讓這個事件被媒體重視 |
| 00:06:10,000 | 00:06:13,000 | 甚至於台北市政府現在未來檢視 |
| 00:06:13,000 | 00:06:15,000 | 但我要強調的就是我擔心 |
| 00:06:15,000 | 00:06:19,000 | 現在如果藍白聯手讓監委持續的 |
| 00:06:19,000 | 00:06:21,000 | 無法運作的時候 |
| 00:06:21,000 | 00:06:23,000 | 那是不是等於縱容了台北市政府 |
| 00:06:23,000 | 00:06:27,000 | 在這個案件上就可以完全的蓋牌他 |
| 00:06:27,000 | 00:06:29,000 | 讓他不受到監督 |
| 00:06:29,000 | 00:06:33,000 | 因為我曾經跟其中一位夏立思的家長同台 |
| 00:06:33,000 | 00:06:36,000 | 你要知道家長他們的追星之痛 |
| 00:06:36,000 | 00:06:38,000 | 是他們認為他們花了大錢 |
| 00:06:38,000 | 00:06:41,000 | 送孩子一年花了80萬 |
| 00:06:41,000 | 00:06:43,000 | 但是卻送到台北市政府 |
| 00:06:43,000 | 00:06:47,000 | 不作為的這樣的一個幼兒園去受凝虐 |
| 00:06:47,000 | 00:06:48,000 | 我現在擔憂的是 |
| 00:06:48,000 | 00:06:51,000 | 如果沒有了監察院沒有了監委 |
| 00:06:51,000 | 00:06:53,000 | 那麼是不是台北市政府 |
| 00:06:53,000 | 00:06:57,000 | 就讓這樣的一個違法虐待兒童的 |
| 00:06:57,000 | 00:07:02,000 | 這樣的一個園長或者是組織就繼續存續下去 |
| 00:07:02,000 | 00:07:06,000 | 其實我想委員提到一個非常重要的一個點 |
| 00:07:06,000 | 00:07:09,000 | 如果今天沒有監察院 |
| 00:07:09,000 | 00:07:13,000 | 外界一再再討論監察院存廢的時候 |
| 00:07:13,000 | 00:07:16,000 | 有一個部分一定是他的核心問題 |
| 00:07:16,000 | 00:07:18,000 | 就是監察權的存在 |
| 00:07:18,000 | 00:07:21,000 | 你監察權如果不存在的話 |
| 00:07:21,000 | 00:07:24,000 | 公務機關公務人員的違法失職監督制衡 |
| 00:07:24,000 | 00:07:26,000 | 完全是沒有的 |
| 00:07:26,000 | 00:07:31,000 | 大家就可以試想委員剛才都有提出到他的情況 |
| 00:07:31,000 | 00:07:34,000 | 所以我們常常說監察權他是一個不可或缺 |
| 00:07:34,000 | 00:07:36,000 | 他必須存在 |
| 00:07:36,000 | 00:07:39,000 | 但是遺憾的是我今天站在這裡 |
| 00:07:39,000 | 00:07:41,000 | 監察權就已經是空窗了 |
| 00:07:41,000 | 00:07:43,000 | 是他已經是空窗 |
| 00:07:43,000 | 00:07:45,000 | 我在7月31我就卸任了 |
| 00:07:45,000 | 00:07:48,000 | 我今天是以被提名人的身份站在這裡 |
| 00:07:48,000 | 00:07:50,000 | 但是我遺憾至極 |
| 00:07:50,000 | 00:07:52,000 | 因為現在他就屬於空窗期 |
| 00:07:52,000 | 00:07:57,000 | 監察權就是屬於一個沒有辦法行使的一個情況 |
| 00:07:57,000 | 00:07:59,000 | 他影響到的 |
| 00:07:59,000 | 00:08:01,000 | 最後被影響到 |
| 00:08:01,000 | 00:08:05,000 | 人民成刑的案件完全是沒有辦法救濟的 |
| 00:08:05,000 | 00:08:07,000 | 我想大家一定要思考這個問題 |
| 00:08:07,000 | 00:08:09,000 | 人民的權益何在 |
| 00:08:09,000 | 00:08:11,000 | 你監察權讓他不存在 |
| 00:08:11,000 | 00:08:13,000 | 可是人民的權益何在 |
| 00:08:13,000 | 00:08:16,000 | 這是我感到非常要被討論的一個問題 |
| 00:08:16,000 | 00:08:19,000 | 大家不能只討論監察院的存廢 |
| 00:08:19,000 | 00:08:22,000 | 至於我個人我只要是續任 |
| 00:08:22,000 | 00:08:24,000 | 當然空窗我沒有辦法 |
| 00:08:24,000 | 00:08:29,000 | 我續任的話一定堅守我自己的職權行使 |
| 00:08:29,000 | 00:08:31,000 | 獨立行使 |
| 00:08:31,000 | 00:08:33,000 | 這是我向來我從當律師 |
| 00:08:33,000 | 00:08:35,000 | 我當監委到以後 |
| 00:08:35,000 | 00:08:37,000 | 這是我的態度 |
| 00:08:37,000 | 00:08:39,000 | 沒有人可以影響到我的態度的 |
| 00:08:39,000 | 00:08:41,000 | 非常認同就是 |
| 00:08:41,000 | 00:08:44,000 | 張貝廷人的這樣的一個想法跟講法 |
| 00:08:44,000 | 00:08:46,000 | 因為我們都知道 |
| 00:08:46,000 | 00:08:48,000 | 行政立法司法法制監察 |
| 00:08:48,000 | 00:08:49,000 | 我們知道的是 |
| 00:08:49,000 | 00:08:54,000 | 司法系統有他針對這一個夏立思這樣的一個幼兒園 |
| 00:08:54,000 | 00:08:56,000 | 他的整個法律的問題 |
| 00:08:56,000 | 00:08:59,000 | 包括他兒女也不當對待的部分他的刑責 |
| 00:08:59,000 | 00:09:02,000 | 可是這已經牽涉到的是地方政府 |
| 00:09:02,000 | 00:09:04,000 | 尤其是地方的教育局 |
| 00:09:04,000 | 00:09:06,000 | 在案發之後 |
| 00:09:06,000 | 00:09:11,000 | 接受到了1999超過13通的申訴的時候 |
| 00:09:11,000 | 00:09:13,000 | 他的不積極他的不作為 |
| 00:09:13,000 | 00:09:15,000 | 而行政人員的不作為 |
| 00:09:15,000 | 00:09:17,000 | 他恐怕不是司法機構 |
| 00:09:17,000 | 00:09:18,000 | 可以第一線來做處理 |
| 00:09:18,000 | 00:09:20,000 | 就需要監察權 |
| 00:09:20,000 | 00:09:23,000 | 另外最後一點點時間我要跟你討論的是 |
| 00:09:23,000 | 00:09:26,000 | 我們都知道我們要保護兒少的權益 |
| 00:09:26,000 | 00:09:29,000 | 但是保護兒少權益 |
| 00:09:29,000 | 00:09:33,000 | 並不能成為加害者的保護傘 |
| 00:09:33,000 | 00:09:36,000 | 因為在許多的兒少案件當中 |
| 00:09:36,000 | 00:09:38,000 | 本身來自於媒體 |
| 00:09:38,000 | 00:09:41,000 | 媒體受限於兒少的保護 |
| 00:09:41,000 | 00:09:43,000 | 很多時候的加害人 |
| 00:09:43,000 | 00:09:46,000 | 因為你不能去對他做進一步的報導 |
| 00:09:46,000 | 00:09:48,000 | 導致於這個加害人就逃掉了 |
| 00:09:48,000 | 00:09:52,000 | 甚至於家長在不知情的情況底下把孩子送進去 |
| 00:09:52,000 | 00:09:55,000 | 我今天不是來跟你討論修法的部分 |
| 00:09:55,000 | 00:09:57,000 | 而是要跟你討論的是說 |
| 00:09:57,000 | 00:10:00,000 | 在地方政府如果沒有辦法第一時間 |
| 00:10:00,000 | 00:10:03,000 | 給媒體或是相關單位報導權的時候 |
| 00:10:03,000 | 00:10:06,000 | 這個是等於是揚入虎口 |
| 00:10:06,000 | 00:10:11,000 | 而且讓這些違法的幼兒組織或是教育團體 |
| 00:10:11,000 | 00:10:14,000 | 有機會能夠持續的行惡 |
| 00:10:14,000 | 00:10:17,000 | 那就監委的角度你怎麼來看這個部分 |
| 00:10:17,000 | 00:10:20,000 | 就是跟不揭露之間 |
| 00:10:20,000 | 00:10:22,000 | 他這條尺是如何 |
| 00:10:22,000 | 00:10:27,000 | 其實這個是兒少權法的69條相關的一個問題 |
| 00:10:27,000 | 00:10:32,000 | 他其實我們監察院在處理像兒少或性平事件 |
| 00:10:32,000 | 00:10:34,000 | 我們在報告 |
| 00:10:57,000 | 00:11:07,000 | 好 我們謝謝被提名人 時間到了 |