iVOD / 170906
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盧縣一 @
| Start Time | End Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00:00,000 | 00:00:02,000 | 張貝提名人貝許 |
| 00:00:10,000 | 00:00:11,000 | 牧師好 |
| 00:00:11,000 | 00:00:12,000 | 好 演員好 |
| 00:00:12,000 | 00:00:15,000 | 很高興能夠在這個場合跟您碰面 |
| 00:00:15,000 | 00:00:18,000 | 代表我們是屏東的光榮 |
| 00:00:18,000 | 00:00:20,000 | 那也是我們排灣族的驕傲 |
| 00:00:20,000 | 00:00:24,000 | 也長期投入原住民族婦女兒少家庭及人權工作 |
| 00:00:24,000 | 00:00:28,000 | 而這次本來就是依監察院主治法第三條規定 |
| 00:00:28,000 | 00:00:33,000 | 因為人權研究貢獻跟公民團體事務經驗的資格被提名 |
| 00:00:33,000 | 00:00:38,000 | 那我想說今天你從最熟悉的原住民族人權開始 |
| 00:00:38,000 | 00:00:44,000 | 要請你說明一下你能不能把人權的代表性真正轉換成監察的專業 |
| 00:00:47,000 | 00:00:51,000 | 好 謝謝這個委員的一個提議 |
| 00:00:51,000 | 00:00:54,000 | 進入到這個監察委員 |
| 00:00:54,000 | 00:00:58,000 | 他是一個國家的一個最高的一個機關 |
| 00:00:58,000 | 00:01:04,000 | 那當然自己本身一個非常重要的一個責任 |
| 00:01:04,000 | 00:01:08,000 | 就是捍衛這個監察委員的這個制度 |
| 00:01:08,000 | 00:01:12,000 | 那我想說從一個監察委員的核心素養 |
| 00:01:12,000 | 00:01:15,000 | 有獨立性 有人權敏感度 |
| 00:01:15,000 | 00:01:19,000 | 有證據調查能力 法律行政能力 |
| 00:01:19,000 | 00:01:22,000 | 制度改善能力跟弱勢的可靜性 |
| 00:01:22,000 | 00:01:26,000 | 你認為這幾個能力裡面你覺得你最要補強的是哪方面 |
| 00:01:29,000 | 00:01:34,000 | 那當然很多剛剛委員所提的都非常重要的 |
| 00:01:34,000 | 00:01:38,000 | 但是現在比較讓我一直痛心的 |
| 00:01:38,000 | 00:01:41,000 | 就是我們居住的一個環境 |
| 00:01:41,000 | 00:01:45,000 | 尤其是遷徙的這個原住民 我們都是屏東人 |
| 00:01:45,000 | 00:01:46,000 | 也是嘉義人 |
| 00:01:46,000 | 00:01:49,000 | 第一個就是像排灣這個地方 |
| 00:01:49,000 | 00:01:53,000 | 已經可以有那個活動空間了 |
| 00:01:53,000 | 00:01:58,000 | 那像現在我們看到這個達拔達邦鄉的鄉地門鄉 |
| 00:01:58,000 | 00:02:00,000 | 他們也是被遷徙下來的 |
| 00:02:00,000 | 00:02:03,000 | 但是我非常納悶的地方就是 |
| 00:02:03,000 | 00:02:05,000 | 當他們在遷徙的時候 |
| 00:02:05,000 | 00:02:08,000 | 為什麼沒有非常好的一個策略 |
| 00:02:08,000 | 00:02:12,000 | 讓他們的那個居住地能夠容納這些居民 |
| 00:02:12,000 | 00:02:13,000 | 還有他們的活動 |
| 00:02:13,000 | 00:02:17,000 | 現在達拔達邦那個地方根本就沒有用動場 |
| 00:02:17,000 | 00:02:20,000 | 當然是我很感謝我們的政府 |
| 00:02:20,000 | 00:02:23,000 | 幾乎每一個部落都有文件站 |
| 00:02:23,000 | 00:02:27,000 | 但是我們最大的支援就是空氣 |
| 00:02:27,000 | 00:02:29,000 | 所以應該有強勁的身體 |
| 00:02:29,000 | 00:02:33,000 | 就是在這個更大自然在一起 |
| 00:02:33,000 | 00:02:36,000 | 那我們也是常常去瓦努盧 |
| 00:02:36,000 | 00:02:40,000 | 其實你看到瓦努盧可能心裡也會痛 |
| 00:02:40,000 | 00:02:42,000 | 他們每次風年氣的時候 |
| 00:02:42,000 | 00:02:45,000 | 那個超長是那種石頭 |
| 00:02:45,000 | 00:02:48,000 | 我還深怕他們的這個腳背刺痛 |
| 00:02:48,000 | 00:02:50,000 | 這個是我在那邊誤會 |
| 00:02:50,000 | 00:02:51,000 | 還有另外一個 |
| 00:02:51,000 | 00:02:57,000 | 我也很納悶就是這個警察廢棄的一個警察派出所 |
| 00:02:57,000 | 00:03:00,000 | 這個是對一個部落是一個有愛觀展的一個地方 |
| 00:03:00,000 | 00:03:01,000 | 那是門面 |
| 00:03:01,000 | 00:03:04,000 | 但是都沒有做改變也不拆掉 |
| 00:03:04,000 | 00:03:09,000 | 然後可以另外立一個讓我們族人有一個活動的一個地方 |
| 00:03:09,000 | 00:03:14,000 | 那現在我比較比較在意的就是我們的居住整理 |
| 00:03:14,000 | 00:03:16,000 | 就是被遷徙的地方 |
| 00:03:16,000 | 00:03:18,000 | 如果我們一個一個盤點 |
| 00:03:18,000 | 00:03:20,000 | 可能我們會看到那個狀況 |
| 00:03:20,000 | 00:03:24,000 | 所以當我進入到這個監察委員會的時候 |
| 00:03:24,000 | 00:03:27,000 | 他這個可能也是一個非常重要的一個 |
| 00:03:27,000 | 00:03:29,000 | 我覺得極不公義 |
| 00:03:29,000 | 00:03:32,000 | 極不公義對一個尤其是小部落 |
| 00:03:32,000 | 00:03:34,000 | 沒有一個正常的一個活動空間 |
| 00:03:34,000 | 00:03:37,000 | 因為我們原住民的地方 |
| 00:03:37,000 | 00:03:40,000 | 所有的那個丘陵地台是我們 |
| 00:03:40,000 | 00:03:43,000 | 我們常常唯一的那個活動的那個超長 |
| 00:03:43,000 | 00:03:45,000 | 所以一旦被方會的時候 |
| 00:03:45,000 | 00:03:47,000 | 幾乎我們沒有地方活動了 |
| 00:03:47,000 | 00:03:49,000 | 好陳牧師的言談當中 |
| 00:03:49,000 | 00:03:50,000 | 我大概知道說 |
| 00:03:50,000 | 00:03:52,000 | 從那個能力裡面你大概知道說 |
| 00:03:52,000 | 00:03:54,000 | 制度改善的能力很重要 |
| 00:03:54,000 | 00:03:57,000 | 可能是現在你迫切需要知道的 |
| 00:03:57,000 | 00:03:59,000 | 所以我覺得你如果當監察委員的話 |
| 00:03:59,000 | 00:04:02,000 | 我覺得你應該要主動提出調查 |
| 00:04:02,000 | 00:04:04,000 | 這就是你最重要的能力 |
| 00:04:04,000 | 00:04:06,000 | 也是未來你要做的方向 |
| 00:04:06,000 | 00:04:08,000 | 第三個就是我說 |
| 00:04:08,000 | 00:04:12,000 | 我看到你有看到你之前在原轉會 |
| 00:04:12,000 | 00:04:15,000 | 那我知道說原轉會之前有推公法人 |
| 00:04:15,000 | 00:04:17,000 | 有推傳統領域 |
| 00:04:17,000 | 00:04:20,000 | 不過也就你當傳統 |
| 00:04:20,000 | 00:04:22,000 | 轉型正義委員這個角色 |
| 00:04:22,000 | 00:04:24,000 | 你覺得原民會這方面有做到 |
| 00:04:24,000 | 00:04:28,000 | 應該做到的一個行政的一個能力嗎 |
| 00:04:28,000 | 00:04:29,000 | 謝謝委員 |
| 00:04:29,000 | 00:04:33,000 | 那在原轉會的幾年 |
| 00:04:33,000 | 00:04:37,000 | 讓我更深知我們族人在碰到的問題 |
| 00:04:37,000 | 00:04:40,000 | 尤其是土地的這個問題 |
| 00:04:40,000 | 00:04:42,000 | 到現在一直還沒有被解決 |
| 00:04:42,000 | 00:04:43,000 | 那也是一樣 |
| 00:04:43,000 | 00:04:48,000 | 可能就是經過我們用那個調查的一個專業 |
| 00:04:48,000 | 00:04:50,000 | 它的真寫在哪裡 |
| 00:04:50,000 | 00:04:51,000 | 它一直沒有辦法進一步 |
| 00:04:51,000 | 00:04:53,000 | 一定有它的因素在裡面 |
| 00:04:53,000 | 00:04:56,000 | 但是我們不應當就這樣退縮 |
| 00:04:56,000 | 00:04:59,000 | 我們藉助這個監察院的一個調查的 |
| 00:04:59,000 | 00:05:01,000 | 他們的一個專業 |
| 00:05:01,000 | 00:05:03,000 | 他們對憲法的一個認知 |
| 00:05:03,000 | 00:05:04,000 | 那在這個地方 |
| 00:05:04,000 | 00:05:07,000 | 我們也可以一起努力來解決 |
| 00:05:07,000 | 00:05:10,000 | 我們多年來的這樣的一個問題 |
| 00:05:10,000 | 00:05:12,000 | 像我知道傳統領域的公告 |
| 00:05:12,000 | 00:05:16,000 | 希望能夠做各個族群的一個傳統領域 |
| 00:05:16,000 | 00:05:19,000 | 不過從91年到現在公告了兩個 |
| 00:05:19,000 | 00:05:20,000 | 還被撤銷了一個 |
| 00:05:20,000 | 00:05:23,000 | 所以我覺得原民會這方面的失職 |
| 00:05:23,000 | 00:05:26,000 | 我覺得從當監察委員那天開始 |
| 00:05:26,000 | 00:05:27,000 | 我覺得你就應該要去看 |
| 00:05:27,000 | 00:05:30,000 | 到底行政部門的缺失在哪裡 |
| 00:05:30,000 | 00:05:32,000 | 至於公法人的部分 |
| 00:05:32,000 | 00:05:35,000 | 明明就蔡英文總統就想說要推公法人 |
| 00:05:35,000 | 00:05:38,000 | 可是到現在原民會還是在事辦的階段 |
| 00:05:38,000 | 00:05:43,000 | 你也要去調查為什麼行政單位的一個落差 |
| 00:05:43,000 | 00:05:45,000 | 跟失誤在哪裡 |
| 00:05:45,000 | 00:05:46,000 | 可以嗎 |
| 00:05:46,000 | 00:05:48,000 | 謝謝委員 |
| 00:05:48,000 | 00:05:52,000 | 那我就承諾剛剛的一個回應 |
| 00:05:52,000 | 00:05:56,000 | 一直沒有辦法前進停滯在那個地方 |
| 00:05:56,000 | 00:05:58,000 | 我們可以一起努力 |
| 00:05:58,000 | 00:06:01,000 | 藉助這個原轉會的一個專業 |
| 00:06:01,000 | 00:06:03,000 | 去做努力去調查 |
| 00:06:03,000 | 00:06:05,000 | 去認識 |
| 00:06:05,000 | 00:06:08,000 | 這個是一個我們非常重要 |
| 00:06:08,000 | 00:06:10,000 | 要繼續的一個工作 |
| 00:06:10,000 | 00:06:13,000 | 尤其是我們都會一起合作 |
| 00:06:13,000 | 00:06:15,000 | 為了族人 |
| 00:06:15,000 | 00:06:16,000 | 為了不公義的事情 |
| 00:06:16,000 | 00:06:18,000 | 我知道還有很多事情 |
| 00:06:18,000 | 00:06:22,000 | 不公義存在我們這個族人這個地方 |
| 00:06:22,000 | 00:06:26,000 | 但是我深信只要我們有心不去免 |
| 00:06:26,000 | 00:06:27,000 | 那因為我的經驗 |
| 00:06:27,000 | 00:06:29,000 | 我也經驗過在鋪了的時候 |
| 00:06:29,000 | 00:06:31,000 | 人家跟我講說不可能 |
| 00:06:31,000 | 00:06:33,000 | 就像初期的文化成長班 |
| 00:06:33,000 | 00:06:35,000 | 為了婦女的權益 |
| 00:06:35,000 | 00:06:37,000 | 已經沒有學校了 |
| 00:06:37,000 | 00:06:39,000 | 那我們就寫一個方案 |
| 00:06:39,000 | 00:06:42,000 | 徵詢那個文化成長班 |
| 00:06:42,000 | 00:06:43,000 | 人家跟我講說不可能 |
| 00:06:43,000 | 00:06:46,000 | 因為那個時候醫生只有一個 |
| 00:06:46,000 | 00:06:47,000 | 那我說不行 |
| 00:06:47,000 | 00:06:48,000 | 我們就試試看 |
| 00:06:48,000 | 00:06:50,000 | 那剛好泰文山也在徵詢 |
| 00:06:50,000 | 00:06:52,000 | 因為他們沒有文化成長班 |
| 00:06:52,000 | 00:06:55,000 | 但是即便他是我的同工 |
| 00:06:55,000 | 00:06:56,000 | 我跟他講說 |
| 00:06:56,000 | 00:06:57,000 | 我們公平競爭 |
| 00:06:57,000 | 00:06:59,000 | 然後這個原民會的來 |
| 00:06:59,000 | 00:07:00,000 | 請我們的簡報 |
| 00:07:00,000 | 00:07:06,000 | 最後就在排灣村這個地方 |
| 00:07:06,000 | 00:07:08,000 | 還有派出所 |
| 00:07:08,000 | 00:07:09,000 | 我們是第一個 |
| 00:07:09,000 | 00:07:12,000 | 希望高牧師你用以前你的堅持 |
| 00:07:12,000 | 00:07:14,000 | 跟你的努力跟你的專業 |
| 00:07:14,000 | 00:07:15,000 | 我想有一個案子 |
| 00:07:15,000 | 00:07:16,000 | 就是跟你分享一下 |
| 00:07:16,000 | 00:07:19,000 | 監察院就台電大甲溪官民 |
| 00:07:19,000 | 00:07:23,000 | 抽蓄水利發電計畫提出糾正 |
| 00:07:23,000 | 00:07:26,000 | 就是其中有一個重要的爭議點 |
| 00:07:26,000 | 00:07:28,000 | 就是我們和平區的哈倫台 |
| 00:07:28,000 | 00:07:30,000 | 嘉洋跟黎山部落的傳統領域 |
| 00:07:30,000 | 00:07:32,000 | 和平區竟然認定 |
| 00:07:32,000 | 00:07:35,000 | 它並不是所謂的關係部落 |
| 00:07:35,000 | 00:07:37,000 | 以至於沒有辦法對這些部落 |
| 00:07:37,000 | 00:07:38,000 | 所謂的一個 |
| 00:07:38,000 | 00:07:41,000 | 做諮商統一的一個程序 |
| 00:07:41,000 | 00:07:44,000 | 我覺得這個部分有很大的缺失 |
| 00:07:44,000 | 00:07:46,000 | 以後如果到宜蘭像地熱的 |
| 00:07:46,000 | 00:07:48,000 | 比如說花蓮有些地熱的議題 |
| 00:07:48,000 | 00:07:50,000 | 你可能也會接觸到 |
| 00:07:50,000 | 00:07:52,000 | 那這些關係部落的一個 |
| 00:07:52,000 | 00:07:54,000 | 以後的諮商統一權 |
| 00:07:54,000 | 00:07:55,000 | 我覺得這個部分是你應該要 |
| 00:07:55,000 | 00:07:57,000 | 真正的去琢磨的 |
| 00:07:57,000 | 00:08:00,000 | 尤其是現在我們反山溪的風電 |
| 00:08:00,000 | 00:08:05,000 | 還有我們豐港地區的西瓜種植案 |
| 00:08:05,000 | 00:08:08,000 | 其實目前都停滯在一個 |
| 00:08:08,000 | 00:08:10,000 | 跨部會的協調當中 |
| 00:08:10,000 | 00:08:13,000 | 甚至是無解 |
| 00:08:13,000 | 00:08:16,000 | 那我想說就你當檢察委員 |
| 00:08:16,000 | 00:08:19,000 | 我覺得這個比較困難的執行案件 |
| 00:08:19,000 | 00:08:21,000 | 或者說也需要跨部會 |
| 00:08:21,000 | 00:08:22,000 | 要來執行的這些 |
| 00:08:22,000 | 00:08:25,000 | 我們部落發展的事情 |
| 00:08:25,000 | 00:08:27,000 | 我覺得你要以檢察委員的身分 |
| 00:08:27,000 | 00:08:30,000 | 去主動來跨部會的來調查 |
| 00:08:30,000 | 00:08:32,000 | 到底行政程序的 |
| 00:08:32,000 | 00:08:34,000 | 在南省的地方在哪裡 |
| 00:08:34,000 | 00:08:36,000 | 把問題點找出來可以嗎 |
| 00:08:36,000 | 00:08:37,000 | 可以 |
| 00:08:37,000 | 00:08:42,000 | 我會去委員的建議 |
| 00:08:42,000 | 00:08:43,000 | 然後當然一定 |
| 00:08:43,000 | 00:08:46,000 | 如果有機會到檢察院請示委員 |
| 00:08:46,000 | 00:08:48,000 | 一定是常常有的 |
| 00:08:48,000 | 00:08:50,000 | 我想問你 |
| 00:08:50,000 | 00:08:52,000 | 你心裡面有沒有一個答案就是說 |
| 00:08:52,000 | 00:08:56,000 | 如果你真的做滿六年的任期 |
| 00:08:56,000 | 00:09:00,000 | 你希望推進三項具體的制度的話 |
| 00:09:00,000 | 00:09:02,000 | 你希望能夠有哪三項 |
| 00:09:02,000 | 00:09:05,000 | 你最在意的是哪三項 |
| 00:09:07,000 | 00:09:11,000 | 如果有機會當檢察委員的委員 |
| 00:09:11,000 | 00:09:14,000 | 第一個就是怎麼樣 |
| 00:09:14,000 | 00:09:16,000 | 我剛剛就不斷的在講 |
| 00:09:16,000 | 00:09:19,000 | 就是主任的聲音 |
| 00:09:19,000 | 00:09:23,000 | 能夠經過我們的轉換成為一個議案 |
| 00:09:23,000 | 00:09:26,000 | 讓檢察院聽到 |
| 00:09:26,000 | 00:09:28,000 | 能夠讓主任也看到一個 |
| 00:09:28,000 | 00:09:31,000 | 檢察院有溫度的進到部落 |
| 00:09:31,000 | 00:09:33,000 | 來服務我們族人 |
| 00:09:33,000 | 00:09:35,000 | 這個是第一個 |
| 00:09:35,000 | 00:09:37,000 | 第二個剛剛所想到的土地 |
| 00:09:37,000 | 00:09:39,000 | 一直是我們的問題 |
| 00:09:39,000 | 00:09:41,000 | 也會在這個情況琢磨 |
| 00:09:41,000 | 00:09:42,000 | 然後剛剛講過 |
| 00:09:42,000 | 00:09:44,000 | 會不斷的請示委員 |
| 00:09:44,000 | 00:09:46,000 | 因為你們比我們更清楚 |
| 00:09:46,000 | 00:09:48,000 | 了解更多 |
| 00:09:48,000 | 00:09:50,000 | 所以我會不斷的做請示 |
| 00:09:50,000 | 00:09:54,000 | 希望我們為族人有很好的合作 |
| 00:09:54,000 | 00:09:56,000 | 我希望最後就是 |
| 00:09:56,000 | 00:09:59,000 | 甚至你面對提名你的政府 |
| 00:09:59,000 | 00:10:01,000 | 你都能夠獨立的查清事實 |
| 00:10:01,000 | 00:10:03,000 | 來判斷責任 |
| 00:10:03,000 | 00:10:05,000 | 這才是我們原住民的福祉 |
| 00:10:05,000 | 00:10:06,000 | 好不好 |
| 00:10:06,000 | 00:10:08,000 | 謝謝牟師 |
| 00:10:08,000 | 00:10:10,000 | 謝謝 |