| IVOD_ID |
17090 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17090 |
| 日期 |
2025-12-03 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-19-14 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第14次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
14 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第14次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-12-03T08:31:34+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-12-03T11:55:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
03:23:26 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/16eb79f0bb3b77db66a919a0b9b1b1fb4be335d15c1ead01b4456b5c46cbb78c2cc962b1d44295d85ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-12-03T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：審查：
本院委員林宜瑾等22人、委員劉建國等16人、委員徐巧芯等17人、委員李坤城等22人、委員廖先翔等19人、台灣民眾黨黨團、委員羅廷瑋等18人、委員郭昱晴等16人、委員林思銘等18人、委員洪孟楷等16人、蘇巧慧等17人、委員吳琪銘等17人、委員陳亭妃等16人分別擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」、委員呂玉玲等16人、委員張智倫等16人、委員葉元之等17人分別擬具「動物保護法第十條條文修正草案」、台灣民眾黨黨團、委員葉元之等17人分別擬具「動物保護法第二十五條之二條文修正草案」、委員林岱樺等21人擬具「動物保護法第十四條之一、第十四條之二及第三十條條文修正草案」、委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等16人擬具「動物保護法第二條及第十條條文修正草案」、委員呂玉玲等16人、委員楊瓊瓔等21人、委員張宏陸等17人、委員郭昱晴等16人分別擬具「動物保護法第二十五條及第二十五條之一條文修正草案」、委員陳亭妃等18人擬具「動物保護法第五條、第二十條及第二十五條條文修正草案」、委員葉元之等17人、委員郭昱晴等21人分別擬具「動物保護法增訂第十四條之三條文草案」、委員葉元之等17人、委員吳沛憶等16人分別擬具「動物保護法第二十五條條文修正草案」、委員游顥等23人擬具「動物保護法第二十五條之一條文修正草案」、台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法第二條及第五條條文修正草案」、委員吳沛憶等17人擬具「動物保護法第二十二條之四條文修正草案」、委員賴瑞隆等17人擬具「動物保護法第二條及第六條之二條文修正草案」、委員鄭正鈐等19人擬具「動物保護法第三十二條條文修正草案」、委員羅智強等16人擬具「動物保護法第二十三條條文修正草案」以及委員郭昱晴等19人擬具「動物保護法第二十五條之二及第三十三條之二條文修正草案」、本院委員賴瑞隆等16人擬具「動物保護法第三條及第五條條文修正草案」及本院委員邱若華等16人擬具「動物保護法第二十五條之二、第三十三條之二及第三十三條之三條文修正草案」
（請參閱開會通知單及議程）（僅詢答）） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:31:34 - 11:55:00 |
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谢谢大家 |
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由 Amara.org 社群提供的字幕 |
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好 我們開會 謝謝請逐密報告出席人數報告委員會出席委員13人 已足法定人數好 我們現在開會進行報告事項請宣讀上次會議事錄 |
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立法院第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第13次經濟全體委員會議事錄時間114年12月1日星期一9時至12時30分地點紅樓101會議室主席委員陳亭飛等14人列席委員洪孟凱等11人列席人員經濟部部長龔明勳國家發展委員會主任委員葉俊賢 |
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1782.893 |
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1807.724 |
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行政院經貿談判辦公室總談判代表楊貞妮外交部次長陳明祺等主席楊朝吉委員瓊英報事項以宣讀上次會議事錄決定確定而邀請經濟部部長國家發展委員會主任委員行政院經貿談判辦公室首長外交部首長及國家安全局首長就台美關稅協議之談判方針進度爭議事項雙方可能承諾及台灣產業之影響評估進行報告並被質詢 |
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經濟部部長龔明勳國家發展委員會主任委員葉俊賢及行政院經貿談判辦公室總談判代表楊振尼報告後委員陳定飛等20人提出質詢經由經濟部部長龔明勳等即席答覆決定一 登記發言委員除不在場者外區域均已發言完畢 詢答結束二 委員陳冠廷 徐欣盈 張家俊及林楚穎所提書面質詢列入紀錄刊登公報三 書面質詢和未及答覆部分請將官單位於週內以書面答覆並附資本會 |
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1839.255 |
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1849.731 |
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委員另有要求期限者從其鎖定 散會宣讀完畢好來這邊那我們繼續進行討論事項請一併討論一併宣讀 |
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1879.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
討論事項 審查一 本院委員林益錦等22人 委員劉建國等16人委員徐巧欣等17人 委員呂坤澄等22人委員廖先祥等19人 委員郭益勤等16人委員羅廷偉等18人 委員林思敏等18人 委員洪孟凱等16人委員徐巧欣等17人 委員吳慶敏等17人 委員陳廷飛等16人及台灣民眾黨黨團分別理據動物保護法部分條文修正草案等13案二 本院委員呂毅霖等16人 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1881.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1904.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
委員張志倫等16人 委員葉元之等17人 分別擬據動物保護法第10條調研修正草案等3案3 本院委員呂玉玲等16人 委員楊瓊瑩等21人 委員張鴻祿等17人 委員郭益勤等16人分別擬據動物保護法第25條及第25條之1調研修正草案等4案4 本院委員葉元之等17人及台灣民眾黨黨團分別擬據動物保護法第25條之2調研修正草案等2案 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1905.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1929.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
5.本院委員林大化等21人拟據 動物保護法第14條之一 第14條之二及第30條條文修正草案4.本院委員鄭天才等16人拟據 動物保護法第2條及第10條條文修正草案7.本院委員陳廷飛等18人拟據 動物保護法第5條第20條及第25條條文修正草案8.本院委員臺灣民眾黨黨團拟據 動物保護法第2條及第5條條文修正草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1930.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
1941.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
9 本院委員葉元之等17人 委員郭玉琴等21人分別擬具動物保護法 增訂第14條之三 調研修正等調研修正草案等二案然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
1942.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
1962.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
10 本院委員葉願志等17人 委員吳沛義等16人分別擬具動物保護法第25條條文修正草案等二案11 本院委員游皓等23人擬具動物保護法第25條之一條文修正草案12 本院委員吳沛義等17人擬具動物保護法第22條之四條文修正草案13 本院委員賴銳隆等17人擬具動物保護法第2條及第6條之二條文修正草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
1964.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
1992.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
14 本院委員鄭振銓等19人擬拒動物保護法第32條條文修正草案15 本院委員羅志強等16人擬拒動物保護法第23條條文修正草案16 本院委員郭益勤等19人擬拒動物保護法第25條之二及第33條之二條文修正草案17 本院委員邱若驊等16人擬拒動物保護法第25條之二第33條之二及第33條之三條文修正草案18 本院委員賴銳榮等16人擬拒動物保護法第3條及第5條條文修正草案 宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2001.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2009.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
好 那麼我們首先來介紹在場的委員以及官員我們在場的委員有我們的李玉玲委員以及 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2010.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2033.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
郭玉琴委員 謝謝我們農業部杜長志 謝謝以及環境部化學物理管理署孫組長還有內政部警政署人事室的劉副主任經濟部商業發展署的陳副署長法務部法制司 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2035.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2056.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
李檢察官 謝謝以及教育部資訊及科技教育師專門委員廖專門委員 謝謝以及國科會生命科學研究發展處圖副處長 謝謝以及衛福部政府司長 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2057.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2078.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
還有訴法部法務處長張處長 謝謝國家通訊傳播委員會法律事務處蔡莊夢委員好 那麼我們現在來請登記第一位的我們的郭益勤委員請做提案說明 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2085.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2096.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
好 謝謝主席今天特別排這個就是修法的審查那非常的高興因為我想在動保法的部分其實我也提出了非常多的一些版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2097.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2116.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
我想近年來大家對於所謂的動物保護的一個重視 那還有期待其實也是與日俱增 但是現行我們的這個動保法的相關的一些法令或者是規範的在這個刑度跟法則的部分 其實還是有明顯的不足 跟社會的期待其實是有落差的 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2116.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2144.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
那也沒有辦法能夠有效的遏止所謂的惡性虐待的行為跟非法寵物市場的一個持續的擴張那麼為了要回應這個社會強烈的一個要求所以在這個部分我們也希望能夠來補強法律上的一個漏洞那我想我的修法的版本其實有三大重點第一個就是要強化虐待的動物行則回應重大的社會事件我想近幾年來接連發生多起的一些嚴重的虐殺 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2145.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2174.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
動物的這樣子的一個案件喔 那麼包含這個越崎的移工在台灣呢從事所謂的販賣狗肉 虐殺的動物 然後來牟利這樣的案件或者是在南投的陳姓男子以假冒動保人士之名喔那多起犯下了殘酷的虐死貓犬的這樣子的事件還有這個新北的坪林的山區用利器砍傷這個犬隻的惡性事件甚至在前一陣子這個高雄喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2175.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2203.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
就是有年輕人他是虐貓同時他是在微波爐還特別PO網那引起了大眾的公憤我想這類的案件其實頻率是越來越高那也對我們的社會善良風俗其實造成非常巨大的一個衝擊那這些往往施暴者都只有付出一點點的代價他其實就可以重返社會其實沒有辦法產生 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2204.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2226.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
以我們現在的現行的動保法其實沒有辦法產生這個嚇阻的作用甚至也沒有直接的證據所以他們可能就一犯會再犯那這次我的這個修法的版本是把這個虐待動物的志祺重傷以及死亡的一個刑度從現行的兩年以下那提高到三年以下那同步的提高的罰金是從30萬到300萬那希望能夠提升這個嚇阻率 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2231.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2259.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
那另外就是針對重大的一個情節者那明定加重其刑大概二分之一那麼不得一顆罰金那對於所謂有預謀或者是前科再犯或在這個社群網路上公開的直播虐待行為者也更明確的要將其納入所謂的重重處罰的一個對象那我想唯有透過這個強化刑度那麼限制一顆罰金提高罰金的一個額度 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2259.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2288.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
才能夠真正的有效去遏止所謂的惡性虐待的一個行為喔那第二個重點的是在補強這個非法繁殖場跟地下寵物市場的一個執法的缺口喔現在司法的問題司繁的問題其實是非常的嚴重喔那以現行的動保法第25條之2規定這個非法盈利的人就是他沒有特寵證他最低的罰則罰款其實也是偏低 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2289.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2315.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
那麼其實他嚴重的弱化了這個源頭的管理喔那另外呢在這個第33條之2第3項的規定喔只有規定這個主管機關得發給檢舉獎金那麼導致各地方的執行的標準其實是不一的喔所以這民眾呢他們檢舉這所謂的私販的這樣子的一個案件等於意願也不足那麼也會影響我們查緝的一個效率喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2315.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2342.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
所以在這個地方我特別在修法的重點包含提高非法繁殖跟販售業者最低的罰款那麼讓他不能再用極低的一個成本來從事所謂的非法繁殖這樣的一個暴力的行為那另外從這個檢舉獎金的一個獎勵的一個制度從得改為因來建立這個全國一致的一個執行的標準來提升這個檢舉的誘因 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2344.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2371.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
那另外第三個就是我一直不斷的在強調就是要強化源頭的管理跟跨縣市查緝的一個效率那使得這個非法的繁殖黑市能夠無所遁形那希望藉此修法能夠打擊這個地下的繁殖場那另外的這個修法的必要性跟期待的效益那我相信這個本次的修法我們是希望第一能夠反映社會對於嚴懲虐待動物的一個主流民意 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2372.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2382.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
那第二就是要透過加重刑度跟限制醫科罰金來遏止預謀性或者是高殘忍虐度的這樣子的一個犯罪行為 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2382.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2405.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
那第三就是要強化非法繁殖場的一個交易跟查緝的力度那在第四希望能夠建立一致且明確的檢舉獎金的制度提高全民來參與喔那另外呢就是在動保法我們希望能夠藉由這次的修法真正具備保護動物跟防止再犯的功能喔好 以上報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2406.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2420.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
谢谢郭委员的提案说明谢谢那各位同仁针对上次会议议事录有错误那无错误我们议事录确认那继续我们请吕玉玲委员请做提案说明谢谢 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2428.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2446.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
谢谢主席 大家好今天动保法的修正草案本席有两个提案第一个就是动物保护法的第十条有鉴于动物保护议题已经成为国际社会的普世价值国内动物保护的意识已经提升了但是以动物作为交换 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2447.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2463.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
跟鲙鱼的经济行为已经严重的危害了动物的生命权台湾各地的夜市还有市场园游会的场域常常有小动物作为付费游戏赠品的惯例像大量的鼠 兔 鱼还有鸟类两棲 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2464.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2488.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
两棲类跟爬虫类等各种的非犬猫动物都被视为是游戏的赠品随意的赠予除了现场环境不佳还有游戏的过程非常的不人道恐造成动物的伤害后续呢更衍生了饲养不当及弃养的问题同时恶意伤害了动物的致死的事件是实有所闻的也引起了 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2489.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2496.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
社會的公分現行的動物保護法的第十條第三款雖然有明定對動物不得有 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2497.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2525.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
有的行为包括是以直接间接赌博或者其他不当的目的而有虐待动物的情势进行动物交换或者是赠予而游戏娱乐难以被列为这个是赌博或不当的目的只有在稽查当下无发现有虐待动物的情况才往往难以落实了动物的保护所以呢提案要修正条文第10条无论是否 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2526.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2552.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
有虐待动物的情势一律是禁止动物作为正品的行为以增进动物的福祉另外在第25条跟25条之一鉴于动物保护的观念社会兴起了而虐待动物的情势时有所闻纵观其他的世界先进国家对于虐待动物的罚则以美国跟日本为例美国是最高处以7年的监禁日本 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2553.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2580.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
是面臨的最高5年的監禁或者是500萬日元的罰款顯見我國現行的罰金跟刑責無法去有效二指類似的事件難以達到動物保護的目的所以要提高刑責罰金的必要另外就是現有的法規定罪的前提是以複數動物死亡為要件所以要刪除此前提 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2580.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2609.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
並且要增訂暴力或施以其他凌虐方式應該予以重罰 以嚇阻虐待動物的行徑一再的發生所以請大家都能夠支持此案 以上好 謝謝李委員的提案說明現在請我們的召委楊瓊妮委員提案說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2614.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2628.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
謝謝主席 楊瓊英發言本院委員楊瓊英 羅廷偉洪孟凱等21人鑑於惡意傷害動物致死傷之事件屢見不宣引起了社會的公憤實際上因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2630.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2645.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
傷動物的案件之判定標準非常的嚴苛致使許多明顯有虐待動物的事實之情況卻沒有辦法依照動物保護法來懲處時有修法之必要所以本席提案並刪除動物虛為 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2648.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2675.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
復甦之前提復甦之前提那增加暴力或施以其他凌虐方式致動物死亡情節重大者也因應相關的這個法則來論處以減緩虐待動物事件的發生那落實動物權益的一個維護所以我們凝聚了動物保護法第25條及25條之一的條文修正草案主要的重點在於在我們第25條之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2677.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2697.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
的這個第一項裡頭暴力或施以其他凝略方式我們用如此來修正因為原先的條文是致複數動物死亡情節重大者所以我們認為在整個動物保護法的目的就是要真正要保護動物 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2697.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2725.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
不被凝略不再傷害而不是因為必須要有複數以上不以數量而是以實際的行動那也敬請行政部門以及各位同仁大家來支持 謝謝好 謝謝現在我們請農業部杜文貞次長就委員提案進行報告 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2734.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2758.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
好主席各位委員各位女士先生大家早那首先其實代表農業部其實要謝謝委員會的各位委員其實對於本部各項業務的支持及策略那特別是今年豆瓣法因為其實我們一共收到了38個委員的提案那我先簡單的說明因為詳細資料有在書面簡單說明其實這次的修法啟動預告之後我們收到非常 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2759.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2776.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
多的這個民眾的意見那經過會診之後其實也在我們的動物之一委員會經過討論決定把這個有高度社會共識的急迫要成立的要修正的先提出來做這次的修正那經過比較 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2779.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2806.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
38份委員的意見其實跟我們的其實有高度類似的大概在第一個是在加強飼主的責任包括對於棄養的認知包括分級管理包括對犬貓絕育這個是有高度共識那第二個部分是在提升收容的管理這塊也有高度共識包括我們現在收容處所的協助然後包括他們的品質在那個平健部分其實這也有高度共識那第三個剛剛提案委員也有提到就是怎麼強化動物保護 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2807.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2831.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
特別是對於有重大虐待傷害或是有惡意的傷害的行為應該要加重刑責的這一塊而且怎麼確保這些動物後續的沒入跟收容這塊也有高度共識這也在我們這一次的修法的內容裡面第四個修法內容也是剛剛委員有提到有共識就是說對於源頭包括這些繁殖買賣特定寵物的 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2832.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2848.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
源頭跟流向管理這個也應該要特別來加重來做法規上面的規範那第五個最重要就是我們的動保檢察員在現場執行的時候如何能夠提供及時而且有效的進入場所協助把這些應該被 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2850.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2870.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
收容或是該被救助的這些動物提供保護我想這在這次的修法裡面提出來也是在委員38案裡面有高度共識的26條那委員提案其實有一部分是因為我們的法案已經在行政院審議中所以陸續提出來但是沒有納入我們這次修法但是也有些條文確實是可以拿出來討論的一共有12條 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2871.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2900.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
那其他有一些可能需要比较社会大众还要在沟通的跟各个利害关系人沟通还有许多话在持续的在38案里面有15条所以以上先简单回应那我们还是非常感谢各位对动物保护的这件事情的重视也愿意提供更好的在法案上面的修正以为我们在动物保护的作为上面有更具体的依据跟法规来做处理还是要谢谢委员会的帮忙谢谢 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2902.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2923.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
好 謝謝杜次長的說明謝謝 那麼現在有關本次會議各部會所提的書面報告我們請委員自行參閱並刊登公報本日議程討論事項合併詢答委員詢答諮詢前我們依照慣例主席台做以下的宣告每位委員發言時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2924.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2946.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
本委員會5分鐘必要時加1分非本委會4分鐘那上午10點半截止登記那首先我們來請登記第一位的林黛華委員請發言那因為今天呢登記的委員非常多所以我們的時間掌控謝謝好有請次長我們請次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2954.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2978.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
委員好好 市長我們讓動保執行更有力動保法的修法要盡痛苦也要補人手好 我針對本席今天的提案我們來看這個山豬調直至今日獵人能繼續再放山豬調你看那邊我嘗試的去放上幾張比較不殘忍的圖 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2980.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3000.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
這樣的山豬吊不論是流浪犬或甲犬都可能是活在隨時斷腿的風險中它不是只針對保育動物而已那捕獸甲的氾濫經常也造成無辜的動物受傷除非及時的搶救否則它們百分百會落得劫肢的下場 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3001.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3019.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
那所以呢本席的提案是全面禁止陷阱納入網路平台的責任以及徵定刑責這邊有事項第一個全面禁止使用製造販賣持有廣告教學輸出入這個補售假與刪除掉本席的修法重點 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3019.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3041.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
二是增列了電極項圈為禁止項目品第三增列入網路交易的責任要求移除或限制違法的網頁內容第四個增訂五年內如果故意在犯者處兩年以下的有期徒刑這是本席跟21個委員共同的一個訴求 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3043.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3049.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
這是目前所有的修法版本中唯一將持有販賣販售廣告教學納入禁止範圍的版本本息針對陷阱氾濫導致的犬貓食腐草蕭等保育動物的誤傷提出具體的修法 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3060.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3077.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
這樣的修法不是新增條文而是希望不要再讓動物被慢慢的痛死這樣這條的修法不只是保護動物更是檢視政府是否能夠真正落實生命尊嚴次長您怎麼看本席的修法呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3078.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3100.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
首先还是要谢谢委员,因为第一个是考量到现场的执行量,刚刚委员在第一章的时候就有提到,因为其实各县市在处理动保业务确实是压力很大,但是其实我们所有的作为的前提是保护动物,所以谢谢委员提出来,就是禁止这个售价现在已经禁止,我相信委员应该是知道,也禁止制造跟贩卖,制造贩卖都禁止了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3100.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3116.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
那至于我们现在有改良式的列具其实我们是在推广就是说对于这些不小心踏入陷阱的也能够有一定的好 那针对广告教学这个您怎么看呢在三株调 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3117.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3147.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
是 在我们在网络的部分其实我们也跟那个NCC跟术发部这边有在做怎么在网络上面做屏蔽或是说所以你是支持本席的修法我觉得这一次的部分应该要在其实现在在网络上面的一些违规的样态我们在跟术发部跟NCC在谈的就是说所以对本席的修法你是支持还不支持是你要提反对意见还是有条件支持我没有反对意见谢谢委员提出来但是在立法上面怎么做成一致性的执行可行这样子的方式在做 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3147.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3174.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
好那我們在修法條文再討論吧好再來沒有受益的動保政策形同棄守防疫的最前線在4月的時候本席就提過動保法的修法的關鍵不是條文而是人經過半年後的今天我要很嚴肅的提醒各位這場的人力荒已經成為國家防線的裂口台中非洲豬瘟的疫情爆發之後地方政府第一時間把責任推給了受益人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3175.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3195.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
這樣的氛圍只會讓更多年輕的獸醫不敢進入公職體系但請問沒有獸醫誰來執行防疫誰來查核屠宰管制檢疫包括誰來落職我們剛修的動保法所以今天本期要講的兩個更根本的問題法要修得對人要補 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3197.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3218.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
好我就舉這幾個報導跟學者之間的提出的呼籲動保法的空轉的原因是公職獸醫師荒在聯合報今年1月的時候就提出了目前有台灣目前有6000位的多名獸醫師但公職獸醫僅佔一成去年2024年全國的公職獸醫師卻35人報考只有10人 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3223.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3239.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
实际报道的不到五人也就是录取的人数远少于缺额中心大学的受益学院的院长陈德勋陈院长他也提出了1987年的时候毕业升三分之一是进到公部门现在仅剩10% |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3240.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3257.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
他也就說了這樣下去非洲豬瘟禽流管狂犬病等政策將無人可執行所以法律的條文當然可以寫得漂亮但執行的人已經撐不下去了好我們再來看在上個月這個也有這樣的報導 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3259.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3279.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
工職獸醫師荒的原因是錢少勢多苗栗縣動保所編制18人其中13位獸醫師一人就要管200萬隻的家禽收容所的工作呢更坦言說一人要負責100隻的犬貓所以呢這個光是洗澡就體力透支了 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3280.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3297.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
到新竹市的動保所所編制的4位獸醫限職僅兩位要辦理全市的動保防疫醫療三線的任務好在這邊本席具體要求現況盤點跟危機因應請農業部於一個月內提出全國公職獸醫人力盤點報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3300.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3322.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
內容當然包括各縣市的動保署防疫所收容所現有與缺額數這不只是數據而是修法後能否執行的底線我就舉澳洲為例其實他對於受益人力缺口亦有官方報告而且強調需要定期人力資料庫化以支撐政策的這個是目前我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3322.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3343.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
没有做的那在危机的因应上呢农业部也应该严理于民间受益建立开口契约的合作机制公私协力建立短期调派的弹性机制我就举这两个国家美国旧金山政府与民间签订的受益签订的这样的一个框架契约英国警政 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3344.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3370.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
机关也采用这种框架基约聘用兽医来处理紧急事件那次长你怎么看这两个要求呢谢谢委员提出非常正确也非常需要是我们需要的那在兽医人力盘点的部分在第52次的中央灾严变中心非洲中央灾严变中心已经请各县市提出来因为我们也看到确实人力不够那在有动物疫病发生的时候其实是不够的 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3370.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3396.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
所以其实已经有这个请各县市提出来这是第一点那第二点也谢谢委员提出来公司协力确实是重要有些不见得需要受益做的其实可以引进民间人力第二个像上次我们在处理牛洁接诊的时候其实不只私人受益退休受益还有学校的老师都带受益系的学生出来帮忙打牛洁接诊疫苗所以我们愿意用这样子的方式其实让受益人力更多但是重点还是各县市缺乏公职受益这是事实我们会来盘点 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3397.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3417.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
那就希望您在這個報告當中也寫出你的解方好那在這邊本席要求的是農業部推動這兩件事情確保縣警全面禁用網路平台負起責任第二個用開口契約來補助現場的人力動物的痛苦不該被緩慢等待的行政程序延長 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3418.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3445.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
执法人员的疲劳也不该被制度默许所以今天本席的两大重点动保法修法因同时尽痛苦的陷阱这是对动物的尊重也补上缺席的人力但站在第一线半夜还在消毒抓狗救鸟的人力得以永续那本席另外要提一点就是次长你很清楚我长期在推动物的这个尤其是宠物的公益血库 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3446.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3476.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
那我對農業部是非常非常的不滿意我覺得你們是新任的部長每次都有新的我個人都有新的期待但是每每期待我都是落空因為你們真的是只是在做每一個部長都是在做救急的工作都沒有一個開展性沒有一個前瞻性這個你們都說口口聲聲都這麼保護動物也有寵物寵物的一個專門的一個單位了 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3476.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3487.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
你們對於他的醫療有沒有重視 沒有啊那你們的動物醫療當中需不需要學啊次長您回答一下要不要學 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3488.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3510.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
謝謝委員 這件事情確實是在現場職業受益師確實有這樣子的需要那我們也才朝這個方向去做因為在調度血液的時候確實你覺得你這樣進度滿意嗎 從本席提出到現在目前平台已經建立了你自己打幾分啊 次長沒有啦 我們剛剛給你拍完手啦但是平台有建立而且我們屏東科技大學的醫療醫院我給你打30分啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3511.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3532.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
政府當然只有30分啊因為二三十分還是累積於這個學術單位啊那你的70分應該是要你政府單位做的我真的覺得非常不滿意一點開創性都沒有口口聲聲說希望這個保護動物我都覺得根本就是在殘害動物公司協力會繼續往前走 謝謝好非常感謝 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3538.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3559.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
好 接下来我们请郑天才委员请做询答 谢谢好 主席 有请次长我们请次长 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3565.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3588.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
委員好市長好今天我們審查的是動物保護法以農業部所主管的法例除了這個動物保護法跟動物有關的還有另外一個法野生動物保育法野生動物保育法所以這兩個法例當然 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3589.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3615.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
就动物的定义来讲这个动物保护法它的立法的目的以及相关的这些动物的定义它都有一个很明确的定义所以跟这个野生动物保育法的立法的目的以及 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3616.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3635.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
它的對所謂的野生動物都有非常明確不同的這些定義所以今天的有一些提案所以農業部應該要做比較我剛講的那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3638.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3666.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
兩個不同的法例兩個不同的定義所以他的立法的目的也不同所以應該要針對怎麼樣不要互相跨過去這個部分要還是要說明清楚因為我看你們的報告裡面並沒有把它做一個說明清楚所以也許提案的委員就不是很清楚所以這個部分也要請這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3667.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3696.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
農業部來做比較妥善的說明當然很多這個提案到時候也會逐條討論逐條討論的時候到時候也請做比較明確的說明好 接下來這個因為現在昨天昨天立法院通過了這個馬灘西淹社福災後重建的特別預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3698.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3720.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
跟農業部有關的花蓮光復還有鳳林還有望龍他們都很期待農業部有關農業的部分能夠有更多的協助但是我們看這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3722.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3750.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
房屋周边的这些土石堆积如山都还堆积在这边这个乡亲就觉得说已经两个多月了怎么会还这些土石这个都是农田农田跟农田都是跟农业部有关系所以这个部分可能要请次长再交代这个 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3751.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3764.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
你們相關的署 負責的署這個 你看這個鄉親都覺得奇怪 怎麼會放那麼久次長你有所了解嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3765.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3792.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
好謝謝委員關心特別剛剛第一個先破題了就是說其實動物保護法的修訂跟野生動物保育法其實這當中的有一些因為其實立法的緣由跟作用其實是不一樣的所以謝謝委員先提醒在我們接下來修法或討論其實應該要有這個把這個事情呈現出來這謝謝委員的提醒那就馬太那邊其實花蓮這次我只能講說其實災害來得很快但是復原其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3793.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3817.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
相對的慢那我也可以理解我們花蓮鄉親的心理的焦急那所以就農業部的部分其實我們現在大概是兩個部分第一個是在就上頭的這個堰塞湖或是在一些那個生態保育這塊其實我們持續在做但是就農田的部分農田的部分就50公分以下馬上可以開始做的部分在我們花改廠那邊已經開始在做協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3817.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3830.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
那這邊看起來是相對堆得比較高的這些還有土砂淹在那邊現在看起來是大概只先把這個人進出的路先拓了但是旁邊那些還有很多在那邊還要再處理那這個牽扯到很多 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3832.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3859.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
包括这些土砂的移除虽然我们的实验室已经去测试过那些山上留下来的土砂其实是没有重金属污染的但是只有掩在50就是累积50公分以下的是马上可以开始我们翻耕可以开始耕作这块我们会先来做谢谢委员关心这个一直留着这个主要是在那个佛祖街那个区块 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3860.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3884.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
它其實房屋旁邊都是農田本來都是農田所以這個部分是不是請你們負責的部門我們去看一下趕快要把它挖走 考慮一下怎麼來處理把它載走因為農田的部分當然比較淺的當然我們鄉親自己他們會去處理但是還是要協助像這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3887.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3902.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
農業部對於這個農業復建這個部分農地的垃圾的清潤農地土砂的處理這個是你們主管的這個你們怎麼樣在 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3903.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3918.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
跟那個環境部環境部跟農業部怎麼樣去共同的去處理我也質詢過農業那個環境部他就說是你們的我查了之後確實還是 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3920.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3947.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
這個整個農田水利署要去負責這個部分那之前我們會認為說是不是因為沒有經費那現在特別預算已經通過了就請這個農田水利署能夠積極的來處理好 謝謝委員支持謝謝好 謝謝好 非常感謝 謝謝接下來我們請邱毅委員請坐巡檔 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3963.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3991.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
好 謝謝主席 我請一下次長我們再請次長委員好 次長早次長我想我們今天討論這個動保法關於這個虐待動物的刑責我們現在要把它加重那我在想就是說農業部這裡過去有沒有去考量到我們這個司法量刑的落差通常這些施暴者 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3992.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4021.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
被抓一次两次但是这个刑责其实相对来讲是低的有些时候可能法官的判决六个月以下他可以用一颗罚金就处理掉了但是他下次又会再来那这个司法量刑的落差还有包括心理辅导的机制我认为为什么会有人会想要去虐待动物是不是他在心理上面的有一些思想上面或者是他的一些心理 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4021.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4032.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
是有一些落差有一些偏差行為是有偏差的那這個心理輔導機制有沒有可能也可以讓你們去做一些同步的推動或者是一個再教育 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4033.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4052.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
市长好 谢谢委员支持因为我们也觉得就是说对于动物虐待的大概有两个层次第一个是他认为说其实罚则也不高委员说很高高的对那其实是非常错误的观念所以我们觉得就是说如果能够在司法量刑上面不管是罚则加高或是甚至有可以刑责 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4053.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4072.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
會開始覺得會痛覺得這個事情確實做錯了這樣其實可以達到這個防止或是在以後不要再發生動物虐待的事情這個我們謝謝委員也支持那另外在心理輔導這塊這可能得要衛福部其實我們主要有跟衛福部借接啦有些人他也許不見得是說對動物因為心理偏差或是思想上面有問題他覺得說 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4075.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4100.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
他沒有去傷害別人但是他傷害同婦這也是不對的觀念所以我們會跟衛福部這邊做借鑑這個部分我想可以可能還可以在跨部會去做一些討論可能是在教育上面或者是在一個心理輔導機制上面或許可以做一些搭配性的配合比如說我的量刑並沒有那麼重但是你必須接受多少小時的心理輔導免得他再做其他傷害別人或傷害自己的事 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4101.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4122.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
第二點我們要談到非法的寵物繁殖現行的條款現行的財閥大概最低是10萬塊我們對於非法的繁殖場我想10萬塊對他們來講是很輕微的罰款如果有一些非法的繁殖場他是繁殖民犬 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4125.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4132.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
這個隨便他在網路上或是到哪裡去販賣可能一直可以賣個幾十幾百的所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4133.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4155.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
次長您覺得我們現在如果把他的裁罰加重或者是說未來我認為他其實是可以用一支一支去計算您覺得呢 您同意我的看法嗎我覺得其實我們現在是10到300萬啦但是其實在法官量刑上面他願不願意說把他加重這件事情其實我們會跟司法單位再來做溝通因為其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4157.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4179.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
你的非法繁殖場如果因為他一定是繁殖他有可能都會去繁殖一些民犬他不會隨隨便便去繁殖一些名不見經或者是不是那麼樣名貴的犬第二個就是說我們查獲了這些非法繁殖場之後那些被繁殖的犬隻貓隻去哪裡怎麼辦怎麼收容 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4180.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4187.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
其實最近大概有幾個案子也是因為查到了有重罰那些被沒入的犬子其實都是去讓人家去認養 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4189.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4209.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
讓人家去認養那如果沒有被認養到的呢因為你認養的應該隻數犬數不會這麼多嘛你被查到的可能都是幾十隻那你的認養的數量是有限嘛那所以你的收容中心其實感覺上你的收容所一定也是瞬間爆滿一定也是不夠嘛謝謝委員那個未雨綢繆有時候開始沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4211.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4235.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
最近幾個案例其實算是收養還順利但是總是要問與求謀萬一有那個認養不足的大量這個可能還是要去想一下當然我們一定是要加強查緝非法查緝這個非法的養繁殖那如果在查緝到了這個收容的部分可能這個我們也要去考量接下來我要請教一個時事題這個全面禁止廚餘養豬這個政策禮拜四會不會定案 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4236.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4262.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
如果說目前應該會盡早定案因為其實所有的養豬團裡都在等這個事情因為大家一般非洲豬運的一次大家都不能準色禮拜四明天的行政院會就會公佈嗎理論上好那你們現在如果依照我現在得到的狀態就是說我們未來其實就會全面禁止廚餘養豬但是有一個落日條款2026年是一整年的落日準備27年才會全面禁止嗎是不是目前的規劃是照這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4263.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4280.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
其實現在也是禁止的目前能夠養的都是有條件的對 禁檢中期有條件所以這個立場是不會變那第二個是我們前天跟22縣市溝通昨天跟養豬團體溝通養豬團體說他們覺得不能再忍受一次非洲豬瘟所以養豬團體認為越早越早結束越好 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4281.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4308.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
所以你的落日照27年開始其實我們的立場現在其實是緊急啦你如果要再飼養的那就做有條件有條件就是縣市政府如果有同意如果你能夠裝即時的監控車子要有GPS符合相關防衛這更是例外還有縣市的條件現在其實已經有15個縣市我認為是這樣啦你如果要全面即使是也不要做有條件啦現在核准的這一些廚餘養豬場我們應該要協助他退場 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4311.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4334.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
比如說要怎麼補助 要怎麼協助 讓他可以退場他那個設備未來可以專做什麼樣的使用這個我們應該要想好讓他退場的機制嘛包括你們現在有這一些年底以前你如果轉用飼料的話 你就會補助那明年 如果是你到明年呢 才開始補助就剩一半但是我覺得這個 有一點在騙人啦你現在已經12月啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4338.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4362.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
年底前就是27天27天你要叫他立刻轉成飼料補助我是覺得時間上可以再拉一下啦現在就在吃飼料啊我知道現在在吃飼料我是說是用廚餘養豬的如果他把它轉成飼料的話我感覺這個可以改時間上可以稍微再拉一下不要讓人家覺得你願意補助我但是那個時間拉得很短 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4363.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4389.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
那你的這個落日的期間的加強的措施我覺得這個還是要加強取締但是這些廚餘哪裡去這個我們看到是台中的廚餘垃圾山廚餘坑那當然廚餘的處理不能像台中這樣子去處理那未來的這些廚餘去哪裡要怎麼辦當然廚餘不是農業部管但是農業部其實我們在禁止廚餘養豬的這個政策上 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4392.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4418.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
實施之後後續的這些廚餘的如何去化包括未來是不是能夠協助推動所謂的黑水盟的產業化我想這個農業部可以跟環境部帶大家來充分的來溝通一下包括黑水盟的這個場域能不能設在農地上面能不能在我們的農村裡頭或者是什麼樣的地方未來的這個廚餘廠他們能不能來 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4419.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4445.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
增設所謂的黑水盟的養殖區來解除去化這些廚餘或者是廚餘的處理能不能比照日本的模式用高壓然後把它乾燥變成顆粒狀變成飼料我覺得未來的這一些廚餘的產業化可能也需要農業部跟環境部一起來做協助好 謝謝委員提醒我們新聞一起跟環境部一起來做 謝謝OK 謝謝好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4449.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4469.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
接下來我們請鄭正前委員請做詢答 謝謝謝謝主席 我想請一下杜汶珍次長好 我們再請次長委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4470.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4485.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
次長好也謝謝主席今天特別安排了一個凍飽法的修法因為這一次的修法當中的時候其實本席也提出了一個修法針對32條那對32條這部分的時候其實最主要是因為我們想把就是32條那麼第一 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4491.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4509.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
第一項第一款當中的一個有致死之魚這個部分把它給拿掉那為什麼會這樣子呢就是說之前在兩年前的時候新竹縣曾經發生過一個狀態就是有民眾發現有動物被虐待他就去蒐證蒐證了19段視頻後來舉報舉報之後呢然後縣政府的人也去了 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4516.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4525.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
然後去了之後去看一看之後的時候發現說好像這動物沒有受傷那牠怎麼樣子被虐待呢就說 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4527.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4554.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
踹打犬隻然後用繩索把嘴巴捆起來把它吊起來把狗頭放在水裡面壓到水裡面去19步視頻然後結果縣政府人去之後覺得說沒有受傷沒有致死之餘所以他沒有辦法沒路所以這次本溪人特別提出了一個修法的一個案件希望能夠把這個有致死之餘這邊把它拿掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4555.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4584.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
请问次长你针对这部分有没有什么看法谢谢委员提出来因为其实有时候是在判定的当下点没有看到伤害可是过程到底有没有造成虐待的事实我想应该是委员担心的所以我想对于这个所谓的虐待的定义这个我想我们应该要与时俱进来说其实在怎样的情形让现场重点是现场我们动物保护稽查人员到现场去的时候能够有更好的依据而不是依照个人觉得怎样应该要有更好的 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4584.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4599.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
所以就是说因为必须要与时俱进所以其实我们也认为这状态可是是因为像有些案子当中的时候比方说所谓的受伤他搞不好是内伤搞不好是怎么样而不是现场血流成河的状态所以说我们认为 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4600.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4620.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
比方說如果說有些氏族他以訓練之名行虐待之實這樣子一個狀態那我們希望就我們動保法修法的時候能夠讓我們的公權力其實有更好的一個切入的角度去保護我們的動物所以我們提出了這第32條的一個修法 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4622.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4631.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
請問農業部是不是也覺得就是有致死之魚這個部分是可以把它拿掉讓我們對動物的保護能夠有更完整 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4632.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4655.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
我想其實包括前面的不管是騷擾 虐待 傷害其實對動物都是一種不好的行為都應該要予以規範那至於有沒有至此之餘這件事我覺得是可以來討論因為其實只要有前面這個事實是造成動物的傷害所以說我們希望說這次修法當中的時候因為行政院版的動保法修法一直還沒有送進來我們也希望這個部分就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4656.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4672.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
農業部這邊能夠把我們這個有致死之魚這部分這幾個字把它給修掉納入院版一起來考量好不好謝謝委員的提醒我想這樣更完備謝謝次長那我接下來想請教一個部分就是因為最近日本他們的雄亥 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4673.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4698.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
就引起了很多的一個注意那麼他們對於整個日本的雄害的部分也開始有一些新的做法新的做法那針對這個日本的雄害的部分那我必須要考量到我們台灣其實也有一個喉害的一個狀態那上次在農業部夜報的時候部長特別提到如果說我們再不處理現在的喉害的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4699.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4722.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
五年之後 猕猴就會進到我們市區去那針對這個部分的時候其實本席特別的關注那我們要怎麼樣來處理猴害的問題可不可以請次長具體回答好 謝謝委員提醒猴子確實是一個非常特別的野生動物因為牠聰明又領長類那其實我們現在在處理的也不是只有猴害比方說最近處理非洲豬瘟的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4722.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4748.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
也有很多野树的问题所以我们是一并把这些事情一起来想就是说因为它有在不同地区有不同样态我们会推出不同的防治方法因为不只对农民或是对我们人类或是对疾病的传播其实都是我们要考量的一些方向所以喉嗨的部分其实我们现在也在就几个区域有些是因为是临近一些农作区那有些是因为像高雄中山大学那边因为是人 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4749.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4761.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
清淨的那個環境所以其實樣態不太一樣要怎麼去做我們會依照不同的地點按照農業部現在的一個統計估計就是說台灣大概現在大概這個猕猴造成我們的狀態大概有多少隻 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4771.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4790.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
我從媒體上面去查到一些資料從60萬到80萬都有人孤這麼大的一個量那這部分如果沒有好好去處理的時候我相信會造成我們很大的一個問題我們人跟野生動物當中的界線到底要在哪裡做一個分隔我覺得這部分農業部必須要很具體去 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4791.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4815.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
提出一個具體解決的方法那我們是不是能夠利用一個絕育的控制來控制這個量可是要怎麼去做到這絕育控制這又是另外一個問題因為日本現在對於雄害的部分他們是用撲殺的方式現在開始用撲殺的方式而且條件其實也在慢慢的鬆綁可是我們對於喉害的部分我們要怎麼去做處理尤其剛剛次長提到說 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4816.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4833.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
猴子是靈長類的狀態的時候考量我們可能又會更多更深刻一點所以這部分也請農業部這邊很具體提出一個我們要怎麼樣解決猴害的問題既然部長都已經提到五年之後猕猴就會進入市區那我們現在不處理什麼時候要處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4835.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4852.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
我想其实还是照不同地方应该要提出不同的方式不管是绝育也好或其实它现在已经不是保育类的动物我想其实都要有一套可以操作的方式来做那当然也要社会沟通我觉得这也是很重要所以我们希望这边大概什么时候可以提出个具体的一个做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4855.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4872.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
三個月我們來評估一下看包括剛剛那個多元的方式來做一下好三個月謝謝委員提醒三個月給我們一個怎麼樣解決台灣喉嗨作法因為在韓國他們有些是用無人機的方式然後去投一些相關的一些味道然後去 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4873.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4902.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
來控制猴害的一個產生那這邊也讓農業部這邊去做一個考量好 謝謝委員提醒那我最後這邊我特別問一個問題就是因為這一次的那個非洲豬瘟的時候其實我們也看到了很多的問題包括剛剛廚藝的部分已經要在2027年要解決那這已經有具體的狀態我這邊要特別提到一個就是經濟動物的獸醫的問題量完全的不足那我們目前針對這個部分有沒有什麼解決的方法 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4903.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4918.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
謝謝委員關心因為其實動物防疫確實不容易那特別是像有這種重大疾病的時候各縣市其實真的都很辛苦那我們現在已經有請各縣市去盤點他們的防疫受益師就是公職受益的缺口那我們希望能夠協助他們解決這樣的問題這是第一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4919.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4946.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
那第二點其實我們也引入公司協力啦因為其實有很多這個私人的動物獸醫師或者是退休獸醫師或是學校學校老師帶著學生其實也都是我們的協助的方式但是畢竟畢竟各縣市的公司獸醫確實是有缺口這個部分我就是現在這部分尤其經濟動物的獸醫完全的不夠這是我們從整個農業部相關的一個資料去統計出來的狀態 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4948.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4965.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
目前台湾一位兽医师包含兽医组要照顾平均35.1万头经济组当然包括鸡鸭类可是数字都是非常非常的多的光是以牛的部分来讲就是日本的五倍台湾的一个兽医师要 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4966.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4985.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
照顧的一個那個經濟動物大概是日本的五倍之多這完全的不足那現在當經濟獸醫經濟動物的獸醫不足的時候我們很多時候就是用那個公職獸醫師這邊來補來補這樣的一個缺口可是我們也看到公職的獸醫師量也完全的不夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
4986.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5003.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
量也完全不夠 我想次長應該很清楚知道這個狀態那從今年6月份的時候我們有開始實施公職獸醫師不開業獎金我想了解一下這個政策推出來到目前為止大概有多少公職獸醫師來申請這樣的一個不開業獎金 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5007.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5022.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
限職在職務上面都有領但是另外一個是我們因為提出公職獸醫師的不開獎金之後有52位公職獸醫回任了所以確實是有一些緩解這個需求但是其實還是不夠有52位獸醫師回任了 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5023.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5037.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
那我想這個獸醫師的部分 尤其是經濟動物的獸醫師的部分的時候請農業部這邊來看 怎麼樣子來把這個制度調好因為這是整個系統的一個問題 那量完全的不夠我們要怎麼去補 請農業部這邊好好的來解決這個問題謝謝委員提醒 謝謝接下來我們請陳廷輝委員請做詢談 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5053.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5076.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
謝謝昭緯 我們請次長我們再請杜次長委員好 次長好我先詢問一下 因為其實最近在我們台南大家都在討論一個議題也就是說我們對於流浪權我們原地在回放 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5077.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5098.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
也就是说我们如果很多流浪狗然后我们这个动保处去把它做一个处理之后但是结扎完又原地回放所以这个议题大家一直在讨论说这个政策是对的吗因为其实应该如果看到很多的画面 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5100.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5123.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
很多的学校门口几乎就是我们的流浪犬然后在现场晒日光雨小朋友都很担心很害怕家长也很担心很害怕那么因为反应之后学校通报我们的市府相关单位也来做了处理处理之后 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5124.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5152.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
他又马上回放回去然后到了一个礼拜之后还是一样晒日光雨所以在这个状态到底怎么样的政策才是对的市长好谢谢委员关心因为其实游荡犬的事情确实是现在各县市其实都会碰到特别是都会行的那应该这样说其实如果游荡犬有攻击人或追车又伤人或是有这些这个 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5154.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5170.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
比較具侵略性的行為其實我們在捕捉之後其實各縣市就不回放了所以在各縣市其實對這些曾經有這些應該叫做不良記錄的遊行犬抓了之後其實不回放這是第一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5171.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5187.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
那第二点台南市的做法其实我爱尔勒其实各县市要学习的第一个就是说我们以前的收容中心都是去就是水泥固定的啦那几个龙舍啦关起之狗那台南市有一个非常好的弹性做法就是他找一块地他用 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5189.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5207.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
他的檢疫其實一點都不檢疫其實狗狗的遮蔽啦 餵食啦 活動啦都沒有影響但是不去大間房裡面他就用小狗屋一戶一戶有啊這個在原的成功裡就是一個非常棒的其實是一個非常成功的案例 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5207.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5225.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
那其实我们也把这样子的案例就是跟各县市说与其你要新土木发包做那种硬体的那种是一种方式没有不能做但是其实这种更快速可以加大量能收容那也一样有动物保护效果的其实台南市是一个我们非常好的示范在做那你知道那一块地基本上就是台塘的用地 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5226.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5251.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
所以如果说我们可以来用我们国家的土地或国营的土地然后来做这样子其实这也是我们的一个思考方式那离人民就有点远了就不是在弯道的出兵因为弯道的出兵大家会欢乐嘛那如果你用这些比较在林地或是国有地或是我们国营的土地 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5252.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5272.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
那在做这样的一个简易处理我觉得它就非常有意义那我们是不是应该达到收容的效果对我们是不是应该要盘整因为其实这是很多家长跟我的反应他说有当时候在流荡泉然后在这个学校的大门口晒日光玉 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5273.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5288.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
然後他們通報學校學校有處理但是一個禮拜之後又回放又一樣看到整個流蕩犬曬日光雨雖然他們並沒有任何攻擊可是小朋友看了會不會怕 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5289.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5309.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
好 所以謝謝委員提醒那像剛剛我們提到就是說我們也再來盤整有沒有地國家的地可以拿出來那也跟各縣市做媒合晚歷來這屆的簡歷式的收容把量能擴大然後快速可以完成其實大家都願意因為你知道人的成功裡那一塊土地就是我跟台糖溝通的 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5310.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5330.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
那我覺得里長也很棒里長跟溝通李明然後李明同意他先從李明同意而不是說我們先做了然後讓李明知道了然後李明就說不行為什麼你為這個還沒有告訴我們你就已經去做了這樣的決定所以他是由 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5331.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5354.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
里民都同意然后我们才来争取台塘的土地来再争取这个中央的预算跟地方的预算非常谢谢委员支持那真是一个很好的成功的范例我们现在都是国管企业的公共其实台南是做得成那这样子的模范其实应该是可以来推广对 所以我觉得说中央跟地方要怎么样合作 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5354.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5377.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
因為最痛苦的就是爹嘛對 盤點一下台塘的土地跟人民距離比較遠的地方還有我們林務局的土地然後還有我們國有財產局的土地還有國營會的相關我覺得這個都是我們可以來做這個協助也就是說它沒有什麼攻擊性 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5378.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5400.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
可是你再回放回去還是一樣沒有解決問題那如果我們可以找這些場所然後讓我們流蕩犬也可以站在動物的自由權然後又不影響他這個所謂的民眾的安心跟他的恐慌我覺得這個部分我們就應該來做這個平台 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5403.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5427.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
謝謝委員支持我覺得這個我們可以來努力因為台南已經有這個案例了我覺得我們就應該來做然後第二個部分就是說我們再次這個動物保護法的一個審查那這當中我有提版本在這個家中虐待動物的刑責這個部分基本上我們過去有太多的案例了 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5428.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5453.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
也就是說你如果沒有加重刑責的話不怕啦大家不怕那還有就是說你飼主寵物管理的責任這個也很重要也就是說我們都是愛動物的我們都是疼惜動物的那當然我們要盡到能夠保護動物跟人之間的衝突 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5454.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5480.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
這要避免所以當然我們是不是應該要有所謂的飼主寵物管理的責任這個我們應該也要以相關的配套否則我很愛牠帶出去之後然後因為不小心我們沒有照顧看好一時之間因為人跟動物之間一點點的 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5482.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5487.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
這個不確定是不信任感它就會發生我們無法預期的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5489.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5513.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
所以这个部分是不是我们也有针对我两个提案你们什么看法有 谢谢我们都支持因为其实第一个是事主本身的责任她自己爱的动物但是她的动物处理不太好就把人在这些地方第二她也爱她的动物但是不代表她可以虐待她的动物所以我想刚刚委员提的这两段我们都会纳进来做修正这个很重要因为我觉得我们把每一个人的责任 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5514.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5526.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
都弄清楚 對 非常清楚的明定達到動物保護的效果 對這樣就才能真正做到保護動物這樣的一個標準跟目標值謝謝委員 謝謝謝謝 接下來我們請賴論委員請做詢答好 謝謝召委 請杜次長我們請杜次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5547.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5562.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
市長好委員好市長先請教一下我在今年的5月7號提出來我們的國家執行權我希望他能夠納保對於這些不管是檢疫權 緝毒權或者是警犬 搜救權 國防 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5563.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5589.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
軍犬這些都是為國家付出很多很重要啦而且他們也常遇到職業病甚至有面臨一些意外的一些傷害那我覺得國家應該給他們更多照顧那也很謝謝我看到了農業部好像也有考慮這個納入來投保了嘛在明年要來實施是不是已經全部納保了謝謝委員提醒這252支工作全部納保了很重要啦我覺得他們對國家的付出相當的多啦那我覺得對他們的也是我們對於 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5592.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5604.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
這個這些的執行權甚至對於我們所謂的這些動物的一個很重要的保護指標了也謝謝那個農業部那這個部分如果我們把它入法進來的話未來讓它常態化的話這個部裡面的看法呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5606.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5632.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
不要說只是剛好現在支持然後一直彎到不同的政黨執政或不同的首長的時候又有不同的看法了我們支持啦 其實應該要長期來做對 我覺得對於這個他們其實是國家很重要的一個夥伴了啦他們不只是動物 他們是我們很多夥伴我認為應該給予 好不好那我們就把它入法好不好我們在修法的時候一盤入法那我請教一下 像這樣的經費其實並不多啦像一年這樣估起來大概經費多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5632.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5661.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
大概五百萬左右 其實經費不多多少錢 五百萬其實並不多啦 以他們付出的你看光不要講 光一個非洲豬瘟對不對 他們那麼辛苦的在做這些 他們扮演的功能非常的重要對 這個非常 這個不是我們有辦法做的事情我覺得這個五百萬其實是非常值得的我希望就把它納入法令中 好不好好 謝謝 謝謝農業部再來我要請教啦我也有提到了有關於這個動物的寵物的一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5662.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5689.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
用品跟玩具啦我知道我們的食品有納入規範也很謝謝啦因為現在毛小孩很多甚至很多毛小孩扮演很重要的角色他對於人的這種陪伴跟他的這個有很多很重要的角色那我們有時候也常看到啦有時候在一些網路上面有的東西寵物的玩具一塊錢五塊錢十塊錢我們大家都理解啦一個賣一塊錢五塊十塊錢的東西他的品質真的是很難讓人完全放心啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5690.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5711.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
那在低價的狀況下他可能裡面很多的塑化很多的一些材質上有很多問題而這個在毛小孩他有可能在用這個用品的時候有可能就會傷害到他的身體更何況很多的家庭裡面也有其他的小孩他有可能也不小心就會所以我覺得這個也涉及到了毛小孩的安全也涉及到了整個家庭的環境的一個安全所以我是覺得這個應該 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5713.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5740.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
我們 我當然已經看到了也謝謝農業部啦在我經過質詢之後也有提出來一個選購的指南但是這個指南我覺得可能還不是那麼夠我會建議如果我們能夠評估把它納入到我們的我相信這個對於我們的動物保護法裡面也算是一大的進展當然我看到你們報告裡寫說現在國際沒有這樣明確規範但是台灣常常做很多也是我們領先在很多的國家前面的我覺得可以思考看看怎麼樣的方式給予一定的一些的規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5742.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5768.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
或者一個方向那至少讓更多的業者或更多的人民在選購的時候或者更多業者在他要販售的時候他必須要更多的一些提出更多的一些證明我們可以確保在不管是在哪裡買到實體商店或網路上我們買到的是一個比較安全的東西給我們的動物們給我們的毛小孩們甚至給我們的小朋友們他不小心可能會吃到更安全的保障市長同意這樣的看法嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5769.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5780.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
謝謝委員提醒也謝謝委員鞭策我們應該要去就這塊再去做但是就像剛剛委員提到確實現在是沒有國際標準所以其實我們自己去訂老實講也不太知道到底OK不OK因為其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5783.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5799.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
市長我知道不容易啦你看一下現在這麼多樣這一頁裡面顯示這麼多樣那很多的都很便宜啦1塊錢3塊10塊20塊50塊都有那這樣的東西其實毛小孩越來越重要現在我們的犬跟貓都成為很重要的毛小孩了 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5799.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5827.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
那大家很多人甚至於他們一旦有一天因為健康而離開的時候對人其實是很難過的我覺得這個甚至很多的比較年紀漸長的孩子長大了以後他可能變成很重要的陪伴他的陪伴有可能讓人會更加的健康所以我的意思是說我們把這些事情做得更好的時候其實會顯示出台灣對這件事情是重視的我希望這樣好不好次長三個月的時間提出一個你們的評估好不好努力看看好不好先讓我們評估一下三個月的時間提出一個報告給我們好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5828.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5846.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
好 謝謝委員 謝謝那再來我請教一下我知道現在開始這次的非洲豬瘟其實廚餘的部分有做很多的思考啦那我的想法是這樣其實很多的包括這個養豬協會等等的大家也擔憂啦就是說因為如果你沒有辦法廚餘好做處理的話有可能一旦再爆發一次的話那大概 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5847.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5872.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
台灣就真的我們的這些很可惜台灣豬隻的風險甚至台灣豬隻可能就沒辦法再出口了所以我覺得朝向禁用廚餘的方向大概是一個趨勢必須走的方向那我的想法是能不能再加快這樣的一個速度啦因為如果你一年的時間然後你這一年裡面有人又繼續投資了廚餘的設備又投資下去他到底要不要投資他投資了一年後不用了 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5873.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5897.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
那不投資這一年的風險就拉高了所以我覺得這件事情我反而認為的是我們應該盡快來做決定盡快來做一個禁用但是對於這些使用的部分給予該有的合理的補償協助讓他們轉型甚至於讓他們協助他們我覺得這才是一個快速決定的方案拖了一年的時間我覺得反而最後你一年後還是要禁的話那你何不就在這一年 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5898.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5921.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
儘快做決定不要拉出一年的風險這一年的風險萬一又再發生一次的非洲豬瘟因為除於有某一家業者又沒有一個小時90度的烹煮出了事情了萬一出現這樣狀況的話那恐怕來不及了你現在一年後再進也來不及了所以我想這是共識因為不能再發生不能再發生所以我的意思說既然大家是共識的話我們要不要加快去做這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5921.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5948.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
兩個方式做第一個是我們把補就是如果能夠轉做飼料的這個補貼我們把它加大引導過來這邊這是第一個那第二個再就是說其實是大家包括養豬協會他們其實對這件事情他們也認為說要不要不要一年呢早一點 越快越好啦所以我們希望就是說把這邊的拉力加大讓它能轉型過來那有些現在已經裝了一些設備的其實環境部也同意說不然說補一半嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5948.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5963.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
沒關係啦 你如果專責治療我們就本來有設備我們都會全額給你賣給你順心所以病這兩個部分都有對 但我希望這邊再可以更積極更那個啦 就是說這件事情只要有一個破口出現的話你整套制度就全部沒有成功只要有一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5964.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
5994.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
所以我的意思是說既然決定要做了我認為就加快速度那該補貼就補貼該支持就支持讓廚餘的部分就盡量不要再進入到豬隻的裡面去那這樣的方式這樣可以完全的堵絕掉這一年的風險你只要還是有這樣的制度在走的時候你就永遠風險存在那我要特別提醒那個小廠的要優先處理掉了好不好因為小廠的控制真的是完全難以控制你只要有一個廠出事情你整個台灣就又再毀一次了 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
5994.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6011.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
所以我是說不要讓這種憾事再次發生好不好我希望就盡快的實施如果能夠立即實施然後給予這些已經投資的或是整個我們就去補助你補償你的損失然後讓你整個完全轉移的話那我們可以用最短的時間內讓我們的租資是最安全的 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6013.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6040.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
這是完全最沒有風險的方式因為我們很努力的在外面防堵但是你永遠不知道哪一個包裹或哪一個突然就一兩件跑進來一兩件跑進來萬一又進到廚藝裡面去又進到豬隻裡面去那又毀了那我在講的是我們不希望未來等到再次發生的時候遺憾當年早知道早知道我們全力來做我們立即來做我們就不會發生這事情那不要等到那時候影響了數千億的我們的豬隻的產值的時候才再後悔 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6040.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6051.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
我寧可是現在我們加大力道立即來做好不好我希望處於這些事情我們立即來做謝謝委員 謝謝委員支持好 謝謝接下來我們請張祺凱委員請做詢問 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6076.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6105.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
好我們請杜次長委員好剛剛聲音聽得到嗎有齁他們一直在陳情他們很緊張他們知道你們應該明天就要公佈嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6107.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6122.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
那現在初步得到消息是說可能還有一年的落日今天執行非常非常重要他們說一定要轉達不要冒險可以的話就立即前面的禁止 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6123.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6151.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
因為風險太大了不是只有兩千億的這個經濟的這個損失的這個問題你看一個一個牧場或一個養豬場一發生那個事情全國都受害吃肉吃麵什麼那些都沒得吃了對生活影響也很大那更重要的這幾天西班牙也爆發了那個非洲豬瘟嘛你看西班牙你看那個伊比利斯 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6152.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6175.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
那個都很高級的 那個火腿都有進口到台灣的因為都怕不聽話他說他說最有可能的感染是因為什麼那個冷切肉啦 三明治啦 受污染那個食物被弄到垃圾桶裡面去了就變廚藝嘛所以真的是很危險啊 真的很危險另外今天我們在審這個凍飽法凍飽法的第五條第二項 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6176.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6202.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
第二項的第一款聯名訂啊你要給動物的是乾淨的食物啊他們那些年輕人給我看那個養豬聯盟給我看那個廚藝裡面那個髒的真的是好不好裡面甚至有些過期的藥都丟到裡面去了所以禁止是非常非常重要的那今天也要討論一個很重要的就是我看你們的政策裡面有提到說 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6203.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6233.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
一年 如果他又裝了這個GPS或者是這個溫度跟影像的這個監視器你知道嗎 這要多少錢養豬賺的錢是很辛苦的你叫他現在去裝這個 然後只能用一年這是菸往前啊也不最實際啊所以次長我非常明確的你現在的背景我非常明確 你明天宣布之前看不能不要再一年了啦就全面 立即 好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6234.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6236.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
然後定...嘿 安娜你會回答吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6238.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6265.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
你盡量去爭取啦其實不是我嘛你今天聽到所有的立委都是這樣我們早上跟那個養豬協會其實也有說這個事情啦你早上一定都這樣說的嘛就是風險當然要盡快把它阻斷掉這個風險冒不得我們不可能再一次啦所以我想這個共識是有的那就剛剛這個現在簡報上面這個其實環境部也同意啦因為你說農民一間中這個GPS也好整潔影像系統也好 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6266.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6292.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
因為我們現在是加大力道然後鼓勵他趕快轉型他本身就有裝的就好你現在為了這年要去裝那個嗎那完工期啦所以就趕緊來轉型這個政策就不切實際啦你如果是一個養豬廠你假如現在去裝這個一年後就不能用所以趕緊提供轉型的飼料補貼趕緊對他吃治療而且那個補貼一定要加大加快力道加大這邊的力道我們來看國外怎麼做 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6294.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6321.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
日本就是全部都飼料化嘛所以你現在就是一直讓他飼料化這個廚藝都是說他要處理去化過程或者飼料化其實不只最好參考嘛那政府現在做什麼事情你就是讓你補助力道還要再加強好不好這個你要盡量去爭取好 謝謝要去幫他們爭取那另外就像韓國的處理也不錯啊韓國除了飼料之外他有肥料化甚至家庭的那個什麼燃料他都可以用啊可以能源化這生殖能啦對對好OK好來好我另外問一個有點緊張的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6323.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6348.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
我給你談漁民的辛酸漁民啊 昏臨的漁民啊 5年前5年前喔有20多位在雲林的這個漁民啊一天的清純近百位的警察湧入雲林的台子港沙雕輪台寫的這個文桿到家裡面去搜索用什麼罪名 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6350.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6375.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
逮捕了這些居堤的這些漁民可憐的漁民還把他們上銬把他們帶走檢方後來還起訴他們什麼組織犯罪詐欺企裁為什麼要問農業部因為政府在推動綠能的時候業者入侵了他們的傳統的這個漁場結果他們以往變弄壞了 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6380.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6410.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
後來政府出面去做協調這本來就要賠嘛 本來就要賠嘛結果出現什麼事情竟然業者去告 檢方還起訴他們耶你看欺民大可憐 我長久在那邊捕魚啊你現在發展綠電結果你割破了漁網政府出面去協調 現在完了以後竟然還要被告大部分的純樸的這個移民啊沒辦法 就認罪協商了 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6411.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6439.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
有三個人我現在唸出他的名字李平順林青池跟賴品硯他們說他沒罪啊我們已經很委屈了啊所以我們在力爭到底後來在傅金杰的這個前夕判決沒有罪今天我為什麼要把這個拿出來做一個非常重要的質詢大家看一下他們被用組織犯罪跟詐欺起財大家看一下連媒體喔看下一張 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6440.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6466.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
媒體都把他們稱為叫什麼利人蟑螂今天我要請次長做幾件很重要的這個事情我們的漁民那麼的純樸他們帶有維生的儀場被入侵了結果他們叫天天不領 叫地地不應現在還好司法還給他們清白了次長你們回去討論一下是不是至少去看這幾個20幾個這個漁民好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6471.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6489.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
農業部第一個很具體的 我很具體的要求去看看這些受害的漁民 這是第一個第二個 當政府在推動綠能的時候如果讓某些漁民或者農民生計上受到很大的衝擊你們要多幫農民跟漁民講講話 好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6491.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6513.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
感謝委員跟我們一樣其實對我們的農民和漁民總是站在第一線要關心 要跟他們合作我想這個案子我們去了解一下因為要關心一下到底發生什麼事謝謝委員因為我們說台灣的漁民已經靠我們了解不然就叫我們的農民漁民了謝謝委員我們台灣的漁民三十二萬五千人高雄的七萬萬分林七萬分林七分林三萬萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6514.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6539.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
我阿凱的故鄉嘉義也有15000人在那裡從事漁業可是他們現在在整個推動那個利潤過程不管是光電或者是海上這個風機有受到一些衝擊請農業部要多幫他們那我今天這個個案非常非常的明確他們真的很心酸 去看看他們謝謝 謝謝委員謝謝非常感謝 謝謝接下來我們請張家俊委員請做巡檔 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6548.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6550.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
謝謝主席我想請杜次長我們請杜次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6557.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6579.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
委員好市長辛苦了那我想多位委員都提出說禁止廚餘養豬這件事情那本席從爆發那一天就不斷的呼籲農業部一定要徹底的禁止廚餘養豬否則台灣再爆發的風險是非常非常高的但我想你們的部長不曉得是有什麼樣的壓力他一直不肯鬆口然後也不肯答應我們所有的養豬 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6585.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6614.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
業者甚至我們委員會所有的委員他也不肯答應說可以全面的來禁止廚餘養豬那當然所有的豬農現在都非常的恐慌因為這一年內有可能在這一年如果假設大爆發的話未來你也沒有辦法禁止了因為都沒有豬了你知道嗎所以這件事的嚴重性我想要知道說你次長了不了解謝謝委員其實這個大家都知道非洲豬瘟這次真的是真的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6615.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6633.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
天佑台灣就是在那個我們很幸運因為那個豬場三公里內沒有別的豬場假設是在比較密集的那一次感染是不得了的所以大家都知道不能再有一次絕對不能那你禁止廚餘養豬就是保護這些豬農保護整個產業鏈我先舉一個例子你要知道說這個豬場假設種過了 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6642.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6647.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
他六年內甚至十年內他都不可能在同一個地方復養那他這個豬場假設是貸款 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6649.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6655.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
你要他怎麼做他怎麼償還這個貸款難道農業部你願意幫他償還這個貸款嗎這個風險誰要付呢你們負得起這個責任嗎付不起嗎所以我接下來要問喔次長為了因應美國關稅漁業署推出的配套措施包括冷鏈補助產銷合作獎勵外銷獎勵等等那本席都非常的肯定說大家是共體時間但我想要問一個最核心的問題喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6680.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6705.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
這些補助到底有沒有真正幫助到最基層的漁民據你所知 你知道嗎其實我們對於這些冷鏈的設施其實是希望它到池邊去能夠協助我們漁民我就問你有沒有幫助到漁民價格不能讓我們下降價格不能讓我們下降因為我們是協助它去做凍存的價格不能讓我們下降是啊 這是你理想中但是問題來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6710.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6724.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
漁業署啟動這些措施之後產地的收購價到底有沒有有沒有變好還是變差布裡面有掌握第一線的消息嗎我就先問嘛去年的台灣貂養殖每公斤是多少錢去年多少錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6728.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6746.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
好你們不知道每公斤43至45塊那今年的產地價是多少錢你們也不知道沒關係30至31塊那我就在問啊你們知道產地的這個成本是多少嗎成本是多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6748.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6767.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
多少 你要 是啊那你看如果假設30 31塊他每賣1公斤就賠10塊你是漁民你受得了嗎而且是就像你講的 你也知道盤商會壓他吧盤商就是有壓他嘛 你補助盤商 盤商還是壓他們啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6769.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6783.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
那這個是不是你們的責任要去管制一下我們是要求說我給你冷凍設施 凍存設施是協助農民把那個拉進來凍存不要造成市場波動那價格不能給人家壓低壓低啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6785.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6789.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
多少漁民叫苦連天而且呢盤商已經拿了補助收購價照砍漁民被砍到刀刀見骨如果這是真的話那政府的補助不只沒有幫助到漁民還間接讓盤商有空間殺得更狠那這是你們的本意嗎因為其實照顧農民才是我們要做的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6810.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6826.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
所以我在這裡呼籲次長 農業部必須訂出一套穩定市場的補助措施而且補助必須直接補助到漁民啊否則他們哀哀叫啊變成是這件事情 你們越補助他們越辛苦那這合理嗎 不合理吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6829.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6857.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
我們要先了解一下因為其實能夠直接對接我們的農民漁民才是而且我也想知道說我們這190億特別預算通過之後到底哪些是在支應這些漁業的補助有多少我們在包括是說在這個加工跟包裝運材還有團散的獎勵計畫那還有它的一個加工處理這樣子多少目前我們是大概規劃的有 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6861.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6878.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
好不知道都不知道都不知道可見你們有多不重視這件事情根本不知道漁民也不知道你們補助到哪裡去了這麼多的錢到底基層的漁民問說政府有看到我們嗎我們到底有拿到什麼所以我在這裡希望說 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6879.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6894.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
對於拿補助的這些盤商一定要訂定最低的收購價格否則這些漁民就會任人宰割那第二呢希望有一個機制能夠正視漁民的困境直接補助漁民那設備盤商 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6897.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6909.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
這個包括合作社每一個環節都很重要但是絕對不能夠影響最最根本的就是我們的漁民所以呢我再繼續再講你們這個冷鏈的補助辦法也非常好笑 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6911.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6938.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
我今年8月的時候曾經向部長曾經向部長說過吳國瑜鱸魚業者包括我們的這個可能台灣鯛等等大家關心的這個冷鏈設備補助當時部長就說只有限漁會但是最後在我要求之下呢他們把合作社也納入那這一項我很肯定那我想請問次長目前這一項冷鏈補助的受理期限到底到什麼時候呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6939.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6948.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
都沒有停啊 到年底都可以是啊 到2025年的12月31號到2025年的12月31號那你們是什麼時候發布可以開始申請補助的 8月對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6956.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6984.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
你知道我要反映一個現實處境現在缺工缺料要從零開始到建制這個冷凍倉儲至少需要一年以上那目前的補助規定必須完工驗收才能申請那你覺得你到12月31號有可能建好可以申請嗎我想我們這個會繼續啦怎麼繼續你要講清楚啊明年還是可以來申請啊不是是明年是什麼時候你要講清楚你現在講清楚什麼叫做明年也可以來申請 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6986.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6999.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
今年已經有造成事實 已經有合約 有申請的其實今年沒有辦法完工 我們可以讓他明年再來補銷你的補助規定是要完工驗收才能申請所以完工就每年來申請啊你的規範就夠今年了 你知道嗎這我們現場來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7008.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7021.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
你們要趕快啊 你們要明定出來 否則這些業者心裡想說你八位這麼酸薄 要怎麼十二位就去好了還可以行刑 這是看得到吃不到耶不會啦 一定會讓大家能夠用得到這筆錢好 媽 拜託了 請那個次長是不是能夠盡快的公告 盡快公告讓這一些真的想要做的人能夠安心不然大家不敢啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7032.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7055.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
大家怎麼敢 這一次申請你知道嗎 一次做下去是好幾百萬 可能上千萬的他明明知道他可能來不及 他怎麼敢做那不是明擺在那 大家都沒有辦法拿到這筆補助嗎好 這我們來做行政上面的調整 謝謝那另外呢 我想要問的就是有關於那個次長知道現在日本雄害很嚴重嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7056.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7077.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
知道嗎 其實有傷害到人的這個 有一百多級 對他們觀光也有影響熊害那我們很幸運我們還沒有熊害但是我們的山區有另外一種危害就是猴害我不曉得你有沒有看過猴害有看過那個猴害的影片嗎你看一下可以播嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7088.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7107.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
這些喉嗨嚴重影響了我們在山區的農民你看 他的火龍果被吃了他的柳丁被吃了然後他的柑橘 他的咖啡數個月的這些心血 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7108.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7135.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
猴子可能五分鐘十分鐘就一次把它都摧毀了我想請問次長針對猴害你們目前有什麼樣的對策呢其實在不同地方造成的這個入侵的形態不太一樣像這個果園其實它不見得是肚子餓它其實就是在那邊玩把它都毀損了Exactly 對啊所以其實骨坑那邊其實我們有給它一些不只骨坑 林內林內也非常嚴重 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7136.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7162.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
而且他們已經不只是在侵害農產品他們已經侵害到人民的家中了你知道嗎所以其實我們是跟當地那個里長村長去做聯絡請他們聯絡怎麼聯絡你要叫他們自己去處理怎麼處理委員好我們其實在過去這幾年都有補助谷坑鄉公所其實也包含雲林縣政府就是組成區候隊那去驅趕你補助他多少錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7164.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7172.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
呃 每一年應該都有上百萬吧上百萬 對啊 這個 這個我說加總起來啦加總起來有上百萬但是你覺得夠嗎呃 看有什麼樣的問題可見是沒有被處理啊這個要針對問題來對症下藥啦那看現在還有什麼樣的問題我們可以再來看跟雲林先生的聯繫處理萬來種像這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7187.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7202.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
處理外來種你們都有策略雖然台灣猕猴不是外來種但現在應該有25萬至30萬隻喔而且這個還在增加當中那對農作物的損害是多年沒有改善農民是真的非常的無奈我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7203.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7214.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
農業部應該更主動你要把它視為國家層級的農業風險來處理才行啊對但是全台灣每個地方的樣態不一樣而且台灣猕猴也不是保育類動物防治的工具應該是更多元你說怎樣我說就是您講的台灣猕猴不是保育類所以其實農民也可以進圍處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7227.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7231.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
敬委處理怎麼處理就是農民可以自行捕捉啊不自行捕捉對 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7235.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7257.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
這個也是方法之一那我是說現在有什麼問題我們可以來跟委員會後來瞭解看是怎麼樣我們可以再來提供協助好不好我希望你們可以提供積極的一個策略全方位的策略而不是只是很消極的覺得農民可以自己捕捉這件事情很你知道我們山區喔我們山區是很多都是老人家 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7258.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7271.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
你現在叫他自行去捕捉如果他不小心跌倒了 誰負責所以屈侯隊也是在這樣的情況之下是 所以我希望你們要更積極你們要自己想一個更積極的辦法不是說 啊沒你農民你自己去抓 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7275.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7295.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
有些地方的農民他們確實是也會自己做確實也有啦是 那可能是比較年輕力壯的我現在就在告訴你說我們的山區有很多都是老人家他做不到他如果做得到他就不會認他欺負啦所以我們再來看可以用什麼樣的方式市長我請你回答你要怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7297.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7311.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
我感覺不趕快說實在需要不同策略那我覺得其實我們因地制宜 我們來好 次長署長我都希望你們要認真一點面對這件問題不要再任這些猴子欺負我們雲林的農民好不好 謝謝好 謝謝要講 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7326.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7331.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
接下來我們請楊瓊英委員謝謝主席 楊瓊英委員邀請次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7338.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7358.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
委員好 市長您好針對於我們惡性傷害動物致死傷的這個事件屢見不宣那引起了這個社會大眾的公憤所以因此我們現行的動保法在實務上有存在的兩個根本的一個缺陷 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7359.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7388.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
第一個對於虐待致傷害的這個判定標準過於嚴苛導致有很多它是明顯的虐待動物的行為但是卻沒有辦法有效的來懲處那尤其是致動物肢體嚴重殘缺或者是重要器官功能喪失的這個判斷讓基層單位的動保單位它在執行的時候它是沒有辦法難以去定案 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7388.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7407.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
那第二個缺陷也就是情節重大致死的案件我們的條文是說必須要有複數的動物那死亡為前提這顯然是單一動物的重大虐殺的這個案件它沒有辦法依法 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7408.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7430.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
來做懲處那背離了整個我們要怎麼樣去維護動物權益的一個核心價值所以本席特別提出也就是在法律修正案裡頭那麼我們提出了第25條跟25條之一為了來解決現行在執行的困境以及強化法律阻礙力 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7431.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7457.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
跟提升了動物的權益保障來降低整個在虐待動物發生時那能夠真正的去落實在整個動物權益的一個維護那請教 請教次長本席的提案那您的看法是不是全力支持謝謝委員這樣確實可以達到動物保護的方向第一個是在判定上能夠更清楚因為其實虐待其實有多面向不見得到致死其實對懂不懂是只能傷害 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7458.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7476.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
所以在判定的标准要能够更明确让现场执行能够真的达到保护动物的效果所以谢谢委员提出来这我们一定支持第二个谢谢你复述动物证件我也赞成委员的想法其实这很严重要等到两家三家来处理就已经很严重了你还要一定要等到两次这个 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7477.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7481.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
這個立法實在是莫名其妙的太離譜了我們是要以他的行動行為來判定而不是以他的數字嘛所以設了一個複數本身覺得沒有辦法接受的所以我們同意這樣修改的方向同意修法第25條跟25條之一一個傷害也是傷害對 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7497.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7525.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
就这一句话就这一句话伤害就是伤害而不是因为要有两只以上才算伤害这个是普世价值是没有办法接受的好谢谢针对本席所提案25条之以及25条之一那么行政部门全力来支持到时候我们在实时讨论条文的时候那我们达成了这个共识接下来本席要请教最近因为11月份的报道有说新竹苗栗等这一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7526.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7528.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
那這個越南移工集體化 組織化非法來宰殺 並販賣狗肉還有保育動物類的肉品 重大的犯罪從家犬多多被肢體解體的冷凍販賣一直到查獲了43公斤違法肉品 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7548.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7552.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
甚至還有自製獵槍來獵殺保育類的死虎哇 這個真的是離譜至極啊所以據查呢這個自製的獵槍的外籍嫌犯行為更囂張他不只將這個大量的犯罪的證據 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7567.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7574.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
跟槍支照片發布在臉書網路上面甚至在警察上門的時候他還拿這個獵槍來瞄準了恐嚇這個警察這一類的行為它不只是超過單純的虐殺個案 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7584.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7599.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
它還涉及到違法槍砲彈藥刀械管制條例組織犯罪非法落品的供應鏈以及公共衛生安全的一個風險那面對這樣子的一個惡性重大那集體 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7601.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7613.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
跨區運作的殺戮行為我們的動保法它的赫子作用好像是形同虛設啊那所以本席給你一個數字2014年到2021年的獵殺案件當中它高達了96%的案件它的刑期不到6個月然後一顆罰金你等於是讓非法者 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7626.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7648.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
非法者當成是他犯罪得利的一個溫床所以我們的法律的過度的寬鬆那這些會讓人家有一個機會是不是來台灣掏金本行不希望台灣是如此的一個面向在呈現所以這些的犯罪集團針對 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7649.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7676.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
動物他沒有辦法自我保護的能力他來下手那不僅侵害了我們國民的一個財產權跟這個情感那更挑戰了我們整個國土安全以及動保的一個底線所以本席認為您農業部作為動保最高的主管機關單位你絕對不能讓這樣子的單純的動物案件讓他們去達成可以去做整個結合 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7677.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7706.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
那這個要該怎麼辦所以本席具體建議你必須針對於外籍勞工的管理社會治安動物防疫以及野生動物保育的重大本席號稱這是一個國安議題所以請教次長針對剛剛本席所說的這一些面向不管是集體來宰殺犬貓保育類動物的挑釁那這一項你要如何的 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7707.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7735.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
去與警政署 移民署 跨部會的來及時通報及時查緝來徹底的瓦解這些非法的一個弱品供應鏈 請做說明謝謝委員支持這個要更強力有效來做動物保護所以第一個 我們這次修法把刑責提高六個月以上 不能夠一顆罰金這是非常嚴重 這是第一點第二點 在源頭的部分 當然除了去查緝之外 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7735.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7756.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
我們現在進來的移工其實都有做一些行前的教育訓練就是告訴他們說比方說不能攜帶這個動植物產品不能怎樣我們會把動物保護這個也放在裡面對於移民的這一塊要跟他們講說進來要守法這件事情要講那第三個在司法的部分我想我們有跟司法檢調人員其實有一個聯繫平台我們也會在那個平台上面 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7757.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7774.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
希望把這件事情動物保護這件事情違反動物保護這件事情是非常重要的事情也請法官檢察官就在量刑的部分多餘考量要能夠確實達到所以換句話說就在是整個加重刑責這個部分呢必須要徹底的從源頭從棄養從提升整個收容處 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7779.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7802.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
以及查緝人員的一個權益跟安全來做整面性的一個真正的動保的一個推動跟落實那最後一個議題本席給你也就是我們農業部從106年推動的智慧農業那你結合了整個經濟部合作農工的一個研發 目的叫打造 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7802.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7822.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
平價優質易維修的這個國產智慧型的農業設備但是我們因應到整個氣候的變遷跟勞動力的一個短缺所以在近10年來我們看到這個部分政府推動一個政策它的落實只有25% |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7824.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7841.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
為什麼為什麼有政策落實不了所以本席要請教也就是智慧農業設備的一個普及那你目前只有推動到25%這樣低迷的現象你滿意嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7843.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7871.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
可以再來加強啦因為其實所有的科研所有的成果所有智慧化的運用要能夠農民負擔得起要怎麼負擔得起就是說其實我們現場因為其實台灣農地不大哇 次長你這樣子說那這個很離譜耶你說要農民負擔得起剛剛答覆其他委員說你抓猴子你農民你那個民眾也可以自己抓你全部都推給不是政府的責任耶這樣說不認得現在本集具體建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7872.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7885.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
你針對這個只有達成25%也就設備的這個部分那你必須要去精進你的方案怎麼樣能夠落實請你把書面資料給本席好我們謝謝好謝謝謝謝委員好謝謝那我們繼續謝一鳳委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7907.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7934.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
好謝謝主席我想要請杜次長好我們再請杜次委員好次長我想請教一下就是未來我們2027年開始全面禁用廚餘那所以目前你們有沒有預估一下全國我們每日的去化量是多少那 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7936.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7965.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
那個他要準備資料是不是那未來就是說這些這些廚餘如果不能用蒸煮養足的方式的時候那怎麼樣子處理這些廚餘就我所知道在環境部裡面其實對於廚餘的企劃現在當然很多都是用去焚化爐處理但是其實也不是只有這個方式包括是做堆肥包括是做生殖能也包括做黑水盲的處理其實它有多元的處理方式在做 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7967.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7991.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
對 可是有沒有辦法啊2027年之前有沒有辦法這些量能都出來能夠處理全國的這個廚餘量啊是不是那我們現在沒有禁用的原因是在於你們認為沒有辦法消化這些廚餘量嘛那未來有沒有辦法在2027年之前有沒有辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7991.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8013.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
在環境部其實他有加大處理的這個量能包括有一些高效處理的也包括一些加大做生殖能的一些處理特別現在是每天有2115所以這個東西是環境部要負責他們主責是不是環境部好那所以未來如果這個就是說不能禁用廚餘了那 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8013.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8030.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
所有的相關的廚餘處理的費用是在農業部編還是在環境部沒有 因為廚餘還是那怎麼樣子協助地方廚餘還是回歸到廚餘的處理那這個我們在前天跟22縣市其實有 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8031.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8057.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
中央災害面中心有跟22縣市有開會過那22縣市目前就廚餘處理的方向大概只有桃園稍稍有困難因為桃園目前廚餘養豬的戶數比較多所以在桃園又特別是都會區所以它的廚餘處理相對困難其他21縣市目前都還OK那環境部那邊也會協助來做一些區化的輔導跟做一些設備的補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8058.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8074.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
那除了就是說我相信在生殖能方面就是說你們過去也有規劃就是廚餘的生殖能就是發電的這個部分可是目前好像全國的這個廚餘的發電廠也不多對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8077.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8093.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
應該是在它的設備建置的位置其實很多都是跟他們的焚化廠建在一起因為本來那邊就在處理一些回收的東西因為台中的生殖能廠它是有生除於目前好像只有兩座 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8094.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8122.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
那就是生殖能就是廚餘用來生殖能發電的這個部分那台中的只有收生廚餘那桃園的只有收熟廚餘那這樣子的情況下如果我們希望說可以把廚餘變做可以發電的就是另外一個生殖能的電量也是一個綠能的來源的時候那這樣子的情況好像目前量能也不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8123.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8149.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
基本上其實環境部是會支持把廚餘做再利用不管是去做生殖能去做堆肥去做黑水那你說現在到底環境部的進行的速度是怎麼樣這個可能要問環境部對你們要你們發布禁用廚餘的這個命令結果環境部都沒有相關的因應的方式那未來怎麼樣子處理這些廚餘 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8151.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8176.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
我們全國要怎麼樣處理這些廚餘這個環境部應該是有規劃一些加強的一些協助方案在做那其實金融廚餘這件事情在農業部的立場其實是為了讓非洲豬瘟不再發生我想在疾病控制這塊我知道那這也是農民這也是一些農民他們希望的方向嘛是不是那但是你 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8177.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8204.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
就是說你禁用廚餘你需要能夠處理這些廚餘那如果環境部都沒有以後去督促環境部所進行的程度不然這些東西最後還是會回到我們的養豬戶或者是其他的相關的其實環境部更擔心的是廚餘如果沒有處理好是造成一個社會的髒亂跟其他的亂丟棄對 我是說也有可能再回到我們這個部分所以環境部其實對這塊其實也很重視希望能夠加大各縣市對於 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8204.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8232.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
但是環境部並沒有一個相關的積極的規劃啊我們看不到啊 是不是好 這個我們就在明天中央災害應變中心我們就轉達給環境部應該要加大來這塊處理要不然對社會的處理問題應該也是重要的措施對啊 是不是好 謝謝委員那如果能夠用生殖能或者是其他的液化或固化的這樣子一個飼料也是一個方向對 也是一個方向嘛是不是朝著那如果固化的 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8233.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8253.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
飼料也是環境部嗎還是你們目前國內沒有這個技術所以其實如果要做的話必須還是要有環境部前端對於處理 日本是用液化液化的飼料它也有固體化 做成顆粒飼料液化是不是那這個部分是誰來處理 但是它必須經過飼料化它必須要做調理成它的成分它的 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8253.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8277.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
可能要發酵吧是不是還是重點是配方要能夠做精準掌握那來源其實也不是一般的廚餘它其實還是有分特定的才能進來做這個eco feed那所以以後廚餘的分類又更困難了其實會更複雜所以這塊我們也會跟環境部再來做聯繫那你們有沒有做相關的討論因為如果你要2027現在是對啊現在都年底了是不是只剩下一年的 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8277.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8278.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
接下來我們請蔡議員請做詢談 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8310.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8317.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
謝謝召委 我們是不是有請農業部我們杜次長我們請杜次長和動保司司長司長請委員好次長想透過今天的質詢 還是繼續來聊這個流浪狗的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8330.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8357.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
那流浪狗在我的選區因為布袋東石一族這個大概就是餘溫養殖密集的所以你可以看到說我們在這裡出現了流浪狗在攻擊黑面皮鹿的一個狀況來我放一個影片給你們看一下短短的那這個是非常很重要的這個候鳥黑面皮鹿小黑狗在樹地上悠閒散步偶爾來個加快腳步嚇得一旁白鹿絲跟黑面皮鹿紛紛逃離 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8361.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8364.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
好 那你看這個流浪狗跟黑麵皮路的衝突然後第二個你來看這個下一個影片 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8385.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8385.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
好好 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8405.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8428.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
那所以我們知道這流浪狗的問題大概已經變成在這個沿海養殖密集的地方就是像我們這邊還有濕地那濕地當然就會有所謂候鳥的問題那很多餘溫的魚呀這狗都會去捕獵他們是很厲害我曾經有一個影片是狗一群狗 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8429.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8443.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
旁邊在那邊在旁邊那邊做一些驚嚇然後讓養殖的魚群集中然後另外一隻比較厲害的就會去把魚丟起來所以對於這一些養殖戶當然就有影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8444.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8469.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
然後第二個就是說你看這就說最近的一個新聞喔狗衝到了流浪狗衝到了這個漁市場裡面然後翻箱倒櫃然後衝到了起鵝阿丟那你知道養鵝的最怕什麼驚嚇因為鵝會發生踩踏而且鵝很怕牠的腳因為牠的身體比較重牠的腳比較小所以牠也很怕牠如果高高的去到驚嚇牠 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8471.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8483.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
其他的腳一旦斷掉了那隻鵝就死掉了甚至還有流浪狗已經兇到了跑到了豬場裡面一隻咬死了然後你看有一個咬死了11頭豬 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8485.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8504.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
五隻流浪狗衝到豬場裡面咬死十一頭豬遇到比牠大隻的豬牠也不怕所以就可以知道整個流浪狗的問題是嚴重的那這個問題的嚴重又來自於說地方還是會有所謂會去餵食流浪狗 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8506.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8531.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
去餵食遊覽狗所以我還是要跟次長反映一下說這個遊覽狗雖然說基於動保法的一個規定那我們現在盡量是零撲殺就是零安二死的一個狀況那但是呢遊覽狗造成了很多人的一個財產上的損失甚至他去追老人的時候造成老人騎摩托車走去跌倒 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8532.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8546.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
造成他的甚至生命都產生問題的狀況之下我們還是要正視這個問題啊所以我們農業部能不能針對至少就餵食流浪狗這件事情做出相對應的一個處置呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8547.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8573.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
謝謝委員提這個問題而且這個標題真的不是只有在動物保護也不是只有在群這個族群的控制而是在有沒有可能疾病散播的這個危險我想這看到兩個問題第一個如果遊蕩犬去追逐人這個有我們人民的國人安全的問題嘛那第二個其實像其實每年像這個季節候鳥季節來的時候其實也是我們禽流感的高峰期所以一天遭遇那個候鳥棲息地種種的牠又去我們的街頭也是很危險的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8575.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8598.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
市長我跟你說齁 像他為什麼會跑到那個地上裡面齁我跟你說 他挖洞那個豬場已經齁 已經封閉起來了他自己挖洞裡面 從地 地他就是那個土質鬆軟掉然後就挖洞進去 然後就這樣潛進去 五隻跑進去那我做一個比較不好的假設你在餵食的過程中讓狗 縱使牠不會因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8599.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8618.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
如果餵食的食物帶有非洲豬瘟如果非洲豬瘟他不會他雖然不會讓狗得病可是他身體會沾染細菌那他如果衝到了這個豬場裡面他等於就一個風險現在連豬農都知道他要進入豬場他必須要做好一些防塵的一些要 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8620.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8640.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
保持要乾淨的概念但是狗是直接衝進去的完全不剩完全的概念跑來跑去變成機械性的傳播所以這個也有可能會進一步流浪狗又變成了說我們是在做對於防止這一些像類似非洲之瘟這樣的菌的一個感染它可能又變成一個擴散鏈 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8640.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8660.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
所以我是覺得說這個問題我們真的正式的所以我們就想我們是建議說其實不是我們自己吃的動物不要去吃啦不管是狗啊 鳥啊 還是說外面的野生動物不是自己養的動物你就不要去餵牠那你要餵牠就帶回家去好好照顧當然 你就負起施主的責任嘛施主的責任 你要牠吃 你要聽牠就帶回去養是啊 你今天要聽牠你就好好聽 別讓牠丟 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8662.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8671.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
不管是野生動物或是不是你自己的動物就不要去餵牠不要去餵牠好那第二個我還是因為剛剛也有很多委員去講到的這個鎖定的狗的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8672.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8699.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
事實上你們也說你們可能會有其他的一些措施事實上什麼措施都很難因為猴子畢竟是聰明的啦他是領長類所以他也有他會有一些經驗的傳承所以猴子大概以兩塊的電維網他們後來就會都會懂了他們就會知道說少許東西要去要去要去拼了所以教他就聰明 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8701.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8718.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
那我就覺得 既然狗已經 猴子也不是保育類動物了事實上適度的啦 適度的開放適度的啦 讓獵人獵人去執行任務啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8718.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8736.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
想辦法在密集區移屬啦你如果沒有移屬可能就一直在那裡等未來活植的問題你看日本因為黑熊進入到了我們的生活區域所以日本最近撲殺了7000隻黑熊然後他們現在發展出黑熊美食 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8737.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8757.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
有一些熊類的一些食物當然熊是在人的觀念裡面是食用猴子大概不會有人去食用但是畢竟這件事它已經侵害到了人類的一個生活空間那既然進入人類的生活空間我覺得適度的就讓獵人執行任務這件事真的是你們要去 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8758.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8774.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
我覺得政府一個政府適度拿出一些決心跟魄力來老百姓會給予掌聲的雖然也許說我們會面對一些團體他們會有一些另外活道的考量但是呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8777.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8804.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
我們還是希望好好保護這些猴子但是他一旦進入人類的一個生活範圍裡面我們有時候還是要適度的來採取這樣的措施讓獵人來執行任務才是真正有辦法解決的不然他為什麼叫獵人他既然叫獵人就當然是他來執行啊我們來評估用這個方式看能不能處理一些減少對人的困擾啦好啦好謝謝謝謝次長好非常感謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8809.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8835.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
謝謝接下來我們請陳昌明委員請做詢談謝謝好 謝謝主席首先有請杜次長我們請杜次委員好杜次長好今天是動保法的修法 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8837.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8850.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
就是要大家好好的善待照顧我們的動物包括流浪狗這一邊就是要給它安定穩定的一個地方在那我 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8852.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8870.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
現在的動保法修正 我也確實地講人不如狗所以動保法的修正比照顧老人修得還要好所以我們政策也要特別注意本來有一個影片我要放出來的但是說不能轉那個影片 所以沒有出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8871.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8892.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
但是我今天容忍我們要好好照顧動物我們要保護動物我們要善待動物我先拜託你我們苗栗縣這個凍保研區我們加我跟娘加起來有500幾家空間已經不夠用了 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
8893.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
8917.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
我從112年、113年到114年每年跟農業部爭取一千兩百萬你們的部長都跟我答應沒有問題但是到現在114年連體要到了12月都不見動靜只問樓梯上沒有問題我會全力的幫忙你 要不然都沒辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
8919.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
8943.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
這裡面我要再談到我們預算的問題像兩年物流我們就全力的爭取本來在行政院那一邊沒有核定下來現在已經核定下來我說你當副市長叫做那個江市長你也跟他打拚了你這個預算沒過你沒有責任義務去跟中央去溝通協調嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
8945.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
8965.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
不笑不能解決問題啊我是要解決問題的人我不是說笑笑這樣過的你現在到底要怎麼解決忍耐了一年再一年所以最不愛護動物的不保護動物的是你江市長你不要變態微笑回答我這是很嚴重的指控啊你要怎麼解決這個問題你告訴我 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
8967.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
8977.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
老闆委員 為了這個我們比國管局還要急當然這個目前都到院裡面...你們總是有在急最重要是沒有把你扶住你就在那裡好像沒有要緊編帶微笑這樣怎麼做好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
8982.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9005.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
我現在要答案啦明年有沒有希望還是仍然一樣還是戴著微笑這樣就通過了我告訴你 我沒有那麼簡單給你過關因為醫生有變 但是現在要單價為合定啦這部份是有在處理的你現在合定就已經三個行政院了你不去跟他說合定了我們要好好保護動物 愛護動物嘛是 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9008.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9032.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
好不好 你去跟鄉長他們說你們這個法修的都是要給年輕選票用的啊好老人都不照顧啊有時候講這個法叫我不要講我是把我心底話講出來人的真的不如狗 這第一點第二點 剛剛蔡議員所講的 活子很聰明很聰明的話 你那個電網再加高 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9034.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9051.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
我跟你們協調了好幾次 你說何止會從四邊這樣跳進去裡面我現在 市長你來啦你把隔離帶弄的20公尺 旁邊有高的樹木 把樹枝全部剪掉啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9052.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9067.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
你蓋那錢 兒公很聰明 確確實實你大概離個20公尺 他跳不過來就跳到水果園裏面不然你們每天在那裏 也不曉得如何解決這種小事沒辦法 要安裝來見證 要到節目去衝嚇好不好 你看法怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9077.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9100.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
報告委員 確實每個地方環境真的不一樣像您講的 有些果園就跟樹林緊貼著對嘛 你把那邊隔離啦我都親自去看過了 好好研討一下所以到底是樹林該退 還是果園該退這個我們要依先地來看不是果園在退 是要退啦 哪裡果園在退你要有多少錢可以賠因為有些果園其實是違規的這樣你不知道做過什麼啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9102.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9128.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
但是我跟委員報告我們會因地制宜包含剛剛講的有些入侵的我們也會協助來適度移除但是你移除那個猴子它是領域性你把這個地方的移除其他的猴子會進來所以這個變成是一個我開始處理這個以前苗栗都沒有從南部的猴子一直跑到我們苗栗來了以前我沒有猴子這樣的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9129.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9143.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
所以我一定要想一個辦法我們會一起來還有那野豬啊到果園去吃一死死的現在把牠抓了動物保護協會就出來抗議我剛剛說動物保護協會真的這麼愛這些動物給牠們帶回去養 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9151.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9178.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
我們獵人狩獵應該做的時候要做到底是人為本還是動物為本今天是動物保護動物保護修法的時候有時候講得比較嚴厲不然你就給他好好保護人類生成的東西他的農作物我希望如果這樣子在抗議的話不一定要接受這人要有膽量不要去討好一些所有的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9180.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9204.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
市長 你先來 你會看法你檢疫所 你應該很內行動物的習慣我同意委員的意見啦就是說其實如果入侵到我們的果園要想辦法因為農業部也是要保護我們的農民的工作啦真的 問題你們怕怎麼做動保協會或是動物保護協會真的要保護農民保護人的生存基本條件這個最重要謝謝委員 謝謝好 市長您留著 幫我放這 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9210.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9221.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
我們的魚缸 東北季風大潮的影響那個堪孤的次數 現在沒有出來抓魚今天魚特別好 抓了很多剛才東北季風過來 你來看 這才做的 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9227.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9251.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
那我去拜託你們 你們說這個不是你們管轄水利市我去問水利市 水利市說連中到了沒有錢我不知道這政府說他沒錢 連中還沒交代 還有一國威說沒錢我這邊就可以看到推脫啦什麼叫以人為本 什麼要尊重民眾反映意見我今天博覽大陸 我拜託苗栗縣長 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9253.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9276.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
我說啊 這個經費沒有多少 100萬左右 你用緊急搶修林市長 土地給我們用 你們要辦嗎大家都在推拉 我要用緊急搶修 土地是你們的你不要亂說給我發 你讓我來做 現在你走那裡的季節給移民有土地的機會地 能去賺錢的機會地 這樣好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9278.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9304.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
如果是搶修經過我們的土地 我們會同意啊愛中愛西的 覺得全部都困難了沒有 如果搶修是經過我們土地 我們絕對會同意你這個去 我一定跟你們拜託啊你們說這沒你們的事啊叫水利署來做 水利署說他要開明年就開口合約我等你們 我就要變傢伙因為可能是水利署的海提啊海提是水利署做的沒有啦 我今天就拜託 我把你們留下 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9305.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9331.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
你們這個不是還用效率很快 小事情就辦不好我今天 我要拜託 你的土地給我們用我請苗栗縣政府馬上搶修沒有問題好不好 不能這樣拖地啊 一塊錢地啊那個預算幾千億 要幾十萬這樣有困難啊這開始發生的情形啊好不好 大家不能去求人啊 做官我不知道你們做多大張 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9333.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9361.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
真的有點官僚 我真的看起來我以為市長你年輕有為 這種事情你應該當機立斷應該趕快要做 要去搶修還是你 新竹林物資不敢跟你報告這樣去報 說預算沒有啊 連底啊這麼費用 效率那麼好我也沒有問題 好不好什麼沒有問題 土地沒有問題還是土地加徑會沒有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9363.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9376.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
經費就要看那個海底就要看 你要談到經費你嘴巴又閉起來就要看什麼我沒辦法核銷啊對啊我沒辦法核銷啊 對那你管的土地保安營地在你那個移民的出入口你也消費就有錢土地就對沒問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9378.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9405.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
阿 總會有問題 幾十萬這樣有問題 廠商這樣有問題如果是屬於我們管轄範圍 絕對也沒有問題有一半在你們那邊 體育網不在你們那邊但是體育網的土地在你們那邊對 那如果是我們這邊的我們可以來寫 兩個十號我自己推來推去 這樣做不來的事啊那只有多少 你一個體育網的公尺我們再跟委員了解好不好 其他的是你們的土地我再跟委員了解細節好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9406.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9424.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
要有效率一點什麼進步的政府 謝謝好 謝謝也請會後跟委員來探討清楚因為可能有一些斷點的地方 謝謝接下來我們請邱志偉委員請做詢答 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9432.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9459.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
來 謝主席是不是有請農業部杜次長我們再請杜次長委員好 次長你好上個月18號到東京跟農林水產省相關的官員做了大概三個半小時的討論就是說剩食殘渣相關的處理經驗日本做得很好有兩個方向就是家戶要減量 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9460.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9480.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
第二个就是事业的部分事业端包括食品工厂 餐饮团散这些他们的这个分类来源非常明确由这个专业的处理业者统一回收处理变成ecofit所以从加货端从事业端分别去处理我们去年50万吨的 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9480.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9497.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
的加護廚餘大概4成是經過這個養豬所以未來如果用廚餘禁止養豬的時候我們這個加護廚餘的產生一定要減量要除以減量這個在日本幾乎家家戶戶都有這個加護廚餘乾燥機 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9500.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9517.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
過去某些縣市有一些縣市也有做一些補助所以我應該要推廣你這個食物不要浪費另外就是廚餘的處理要用比較現代化的體系要納入所謂的防疫的體系來 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9519.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9535.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
如果你們跟這個環境部來推動就是說家戶除於乾燥機除以你乾燥之後就變成一般的廢棄物你就可以用粉化的方式來處理所以如果每一戶家家戶戶都有家戶除於乾燥機 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9537.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9555.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
那你要透過補助政府的推廣或者政策上的支持就像我們節能補助一樣冷氣這些節能設備補助一樣所以我建議說農業部跟環境部可以去研究針對家戶廚餘乾燥機提出一個補助的計畫讓家戶的廚餘乾燥機深入每一個家庭 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9562.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9582.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
所以从加户端来看这个有效减少这个加户处理的产生这个次长您的看法好谢谢委员带回来第一线在日本看到就有关于怎么去做e-coffee的这个回来有他有跟你报告吗他其实也是学习很多谢谢委员这个这次让我们同学也一起去 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9583.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9607.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
那除了這個之外其實剛剛委員提到就是家戶廚餘確實是很重要你要能夠在源頭減少的話後端在處理包括我們清潔隊也好我們的那個環保人員也好其實相對壓力都會少很多所以不管是在把它乾燥化或者是鐵位就是怎麼把它處理掉我想這個應該都可以讓環境部有很好的一個參考的一個方向我想我記得大家可能知道等於中央在那邊有跨部會啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9608.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9624.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
就像經濟部他推動節能節能這個補助節能電器嘛 類似那樣子我們在環境部說這是一個方向希望家家戶戶自己如果能夠減少的話後端的區劃相對壓力就會少日本的經驗做得很好所以你看我們這個邊境的管制日本沒有邊境管制 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9625.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9645.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
好像我們現在這個要入境的時候我們不是都還有安檢你這個索尼西你還在安檢一次日本沒有嘛對不對因為他們的事業端啊事業端的他們用這個EcoFit跟那個工型大學的川島教授也線上做一些討論我們那天花了三個半小時 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9646.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9656.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
很深入的針對他們目前的包括法律面這個政策面 執行面分成家戶端跟這個事業端來處理所以日本的經驗值得我們學習 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9659.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9681.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
所以未來EcoFit你們有沒有什麼具體的想法這也是一個方向但是前端並不是把現在所有的廚餘都可以拿去做飼料因為前端還是要有一些分類有些確實可以進到像剩食 廢食 過期食品這些特定的東西才能去做飼料化這是第一個第二個是目前其實國內並沒有這樣子的設備所以我們就農業部來講 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9684.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9710.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
如果要把這些廚餘再轉換成這個飼料完整配方清除的這些可以再用的飼料這個我想我們會來試試你去跟日本做一些交流學習我們駐日有農業組有有有農業組第一線去學習他們他們已經推廣二十幾年了我們有兩個董事在那裡我知道我知道 我很熟所以我還專程跑去東京談了三個多小時事前準備功課 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9713.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9739.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
所以这部分也帮助一个重要的政策来推动谢谢委员提醒谢谢不是提醒这本来就你们不是我提醒之后你们才去做你们本来就应该去赶快去执行拟定一个计划从加货端怎么去减量从这个4月端怎么去变成ecofit这日本都已经很完整的体系这个我觉得我们没有办法创新没有办法有独特的这个做法那我们去学习其他国家这个成功的经验嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9741.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
9758.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
我希望這個盡快半年之內提出一個完整的一個計畫從加護端加護端的部分我們會轉給環境部因為家庭補助這塊會在中央災害應變中心裡面處理非洲中央的中央災害應變中心我也跟左院長建議你們要開一個會議協調因為這個處於 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
9765.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
9787.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
不見得是要編列預算在你們這個農業部 也可能要環境部一起合作但是一定要有一個完整的計畫出來好 謝謝委員另外這個所謂流浪 流浪犬的這個部分 荷蘭荷蘭已經這個基本上已經做到了荷蘭經驗市長您瞭解嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
9793.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
9816.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
报告委员那个先进国家的经验大概都是在所谓的源头上去做一些管理然后加上我们没有办法做到就是源头管理失灵没有彻底那别的其他国家荷兰成功为什么因为就在源头管理做得好所以你了解问题但是你要提出解决问题的做法你要怎么样做好源头管理这个市长 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
9818.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
9839.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
市長是源頭管理真的很重要因為要從那邊減少的時候才會有可能把這個遊蕩犬的數量控制下來你看2019開始就有遊蕩犬管理精進措施計畫執行了6年了2019開始已經執行了6年了但是還是有民眾支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
9841.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
9866.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
所以你比較這個非都會區你會看到都會區大概不太可能太多的流浪犬非都會區你要去城跑你要去這個見走散步你都要提心吊膽有些區域有些熱區所以我建議說這個部分園童管理你要提出更有效的方法那個可能是不是市長說明一下是 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
9868.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
9891.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
那个跟委员报告源头管理大概有三个部分第一个就是那个宠物登记的部分第二个是那个繁殖的商业的那个管理第三个一个部分就是要求事主责任那这部分已经配套相关的一个刑责跟执法的量能去强化这一块事主的责任当然是很重要你必须要强化事主的责任嘛所以源头管理能够做得好就是要强化事主的责任嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
9891.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
9912.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
所以你了解問題在提出更精進的做法另外就是說未來財政收支發放法修法之後啊從明年度開始這個動保相關的計劃經費會全部一撥地方嗎那個報告委員目前的一個處理是這樣的一個方式全部一撥個地方那地方如果財源不足呢那你這個相關的經費就沒有啦就少一半啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
9922.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
9950.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
這個有 有沒有什麼解決方法這一個部分 那一個報告部裡面跟部長都非常重視問題也在看 跟主計談看有沒有什麼樣的一個方式去做一個處理你那個動保業務啊具有全國一致性的特性那你現在變成地方自己去執行這個第一個地方的政府的這個財政狀況這個各縣是不一樣它執行能量 效率 效果也會不同 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
9951.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
9976.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
而且長期性的政策推動也會受到影響所以這怎麼辦呢 隊長你不能沉默以對啊我們再看一看因為其實才化法之後老實講中央的預算狀況確實是有些減少我們盡量來想辦法對需要協助的因為臨時提案比較有拘束力因為臨時提案就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
9978.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
9997.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
希望你們一個月之內就提出具體做法不是你們回去想想看而已啊我可以在永庭臨時提案或者在約會再提案叫你們一個月提出一個詳細的計畫這樣你們才有壓力你們壓力才有動力啊你跟我說你要回去想想看那回去想想看是你要想多久我也沒辦法約束你對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
9999.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10023.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
很多事情這個短短時間沒辦法說明很清楚但是我作為最後的結論就是說這個我剛剛說的廚藝的部分一定要跟環境部立即有一個完整的計畫另外你針對這個財務好 修好之後你這個動保相關經費你要移破的地方這個困境如何解決裡面要有完整的一個solution好 謝謝好 非常感謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10027.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10038.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
謝謝 接下來我們請李玉琳委員請做詢答 謝謝謝謝主席 請杜長賜我們請杜賜 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10046.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10066.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
常事很有活力还有跑步的辛苦了一个早上常事我们的动保法修法其实我们已经在112年的时候就已经农业部就已经送到行政院行政院到现在都还没有排审他的意见大概就是说很多的意见分歧非常的混乱但是本席在这边提到 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10067.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10095.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
因為我們動保法的修法我們在委員會拍了多少次的質詢就是等我們願版的版本進來那現在如果意見很分歧的話我們可不可以去盤點一下分階段分項目的來處理如果就像是高虐待動物的罰款或者是提升動物的保護的檢查員執法的量能這部分有共識的部分我們先提出來來做修法可不可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10096.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10110.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
謝謝委員我們覺得也是應該讓有共識的先提出來不要整版都不提出來嘛謝謝可不可以這樣做所以那年底可以提出來嗎已經很多有共識了有共識的我們會先來做年底可以提出來嗎應該可以現在行政院的版本應該只願會而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10113.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10120.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
一直在那边112年就放到现在了非常缓慢政务会议审过只剩下院会所以我们会来再催一下所以年底可以出来吗我们今天来催 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10142.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10166.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
如果說要全面禁止餵養的話可能會有困難有些志工要經過餵食的時候來捕抓這些流浪的動物所以我們可不可以針對人跟動物有衝突的熱區盤點這個熱區用這個熱區的地方我們來禁止餵養來先行公佈可不可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10167.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10189.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
我們現在做法是這樣子其實當然對於如果跟人有衝突的侵犯人的 去追狗的很多 有些被咬傷的被追又跌倒的我們就列作優先去把它捕捉這些遊蕩犬控制這是第一點對於野生動物像自然公園 保護區我知道你們自然保護區的全面禁止餵養 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10190.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10215.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
但是我说一般地方一般地方现在其实并没有像我们的地方县市政府中央跟地方都可以共同来做的嘛你可以把盘点出这个热区跟人跟这个流浪的流浪动物有冲突性比较高的地方这些地方你先请来公布执行有些县市其实他们有自己做一些自治条例的一些公告有 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10215.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10240.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
像桃園都已经有公布了其实我们都蛮欢迎的因为我觉得这样其实算是我们中央要有制度下去啊可不可以其实整体性的可不可以说这个盘点哪些地区是热区就我们来看其实也不叫热区不热区其实对我们来看其实只要不是你自己的动物真的不要去喂常常发生事情被动物咬啊或者追理论是不是自己的动物其实不要去喂它不管是狗猫或者是野生动物对 你要怎么样去公告可以公告吗 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10240.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10267.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
目前在中央的法規哪些地方有熱區你就公告嘛優先公告做得到嗎地方自治是可以公告但是目前中央法規並沒有這樣的一條來做只有在自然公園保護區那些有我們在做辦法的處理我是覺得不要什麼都推到地方啦我們中央也可以盤點一下有哪些地方是熱區我們就先行公告地方也好去執行嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10268.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10294.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
這巡檢的人員也可以有這個量能啊去做他可以做的事情可以作為是提示性的但是其實並沒有法源可以去這才可以降低這個衝突風險的地方啊可不可以我想其實你們去研議不要一下風雪掉好不好我們來盤點一下研議啦中央跟地方要攜手合作把事情才可以徹底的執行下去好不好那接下來本席要提的就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10296.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10317.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
常事我要問你就是進行台灣紅火與防制已經有多少年了多少年了不知道20幾年了有20幾年了2003年開始到現在我們經費一年一年編下去全台的面積 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10318.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10345.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
是只有增加还是减少你知道吗并没有大幅增加但是在于比方说像像花莲好了这次那个烟社会的时候其实我们的那个红火与中心其实启动调查因为也怕那个水流把这些这个分布增加所以其实整个机制是有的但是防治效果必须看能不能集中火力来做集中火力有做其实都会有效果像金门效果就做得还不错效果很好 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10347.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10375.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
這樣很好 我們都樂觀其成喔但是嘗試桃園呢桃園是全台灣總面積的一半以上其他縣市的總和還都超過桃園的面積是增加的你越防治 我們桃園增加的越多現在桃園43000多公頃 現在增加了多少增加了300公頃等於我們榮科三期的三個這麼大 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10378.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10395.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
經費年年增加從2000多萬一直增加到3700多萬年年增加你們越防疫我們桃園增加越多那堂志有什麼防治上要檢討要盤點的經費都給你們了防治的效果沒有出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10395.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10418.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
其實桃園是積極的積極的反而增加別的地方都減少了沒有 它是因為它建設多我坦白講確實是因為桃園建設很多那其實桃園市政府是積極所以我也要替他講話建設很多因為有土方移動這是跟中央跟地方共同的合作的地方是 那其實像我剛剛為什麼特別提金門因為其實金門後來有用那個無人機去做頭額 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10419.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10441.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
那所以明年也要规划无人机的预算我们会跟桃园做方法上面的经济因为其实是有方法那去做其实是有效果那今年是在金门事办用无人机的方式确实有效果所以有效那明年开始就要执行我们会跟桃园把这个方法让他知道那桃园的那个我们投放无人机投放药物的这个范围会不会扩大 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10442.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10453.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
基本上其實它是委外所以其實等於是這個委外廠商對於它的投藥的方式第一個 第二個效果要去確實去盯那桃園其實對於這件事情是很注視的面積很大你不能說只有那個幾公頃而已你要擴大那個面積 範圍 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10457.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10482.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
桃園是就那個跟人有接觸的那些都會行的地方先做因為先不要傷害到人第一個那第二個就其他的地方農地也好包括那個他們是可以用無人機去做這個我們會跟桃園來希望說加大對桃園這個地區的噴灑頻率跟範圍要擴大而且桃園面積是增加的因為你原來是12個縣市現在已經減少到10個縣市有沒有其他縣市有增加的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10483.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10508.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
目前其實桃園算是比較因為其他縣市沒有增加建設很多所以請把桃園設為專案加強的地方好不好好 謝謝謝謝接下來我們請蘇巧惠委員蘇巧惠蘇巧惠委員不在現場我們請葉元之委員請做詢答 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10519.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10520.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
主席好 請找農業部請杜志 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10528.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10546.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
委員好市長因為大家都非常關心動物保護啦然後也提了很多動保法的修正法案那為什麼你們的那個版本都一直不送來啊是為什麼啊有人覺得大家提的沒有什麼意義還是還是動保不重要還是怎麼樣因為我發現現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10548.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10560.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
其實台灣的社會蠻重視動物保護這一塊的尤其是如果有看到動物被虐待甚至於有一些其他的傷害的情勢其實大家都很憤慨你們有注意到台灣社會的這樣的大家關心這個議題嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10562.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10581.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
其实不止社会其实我们这个委员会里面大家也都很重视对当然啊所以提了38个案子出来那为什么只有农业部不重视啊没有我们也很重视啊那为什么法案为什么不赶快提来呢我们是把这个大家提的意见其实有经验过啦因为有共识的希望所以你们不会有版本了 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10582.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10608.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
我們會儘快把行政院版本送起來你們會不會有版本一定會有 我們儘快把行政院版本送起來你們會有版本嗎我們有版本那有版本為什麼不趕快送來呢我們儘快會請行政院保護這是卡在哪裡卡在行政院哪一個高官不重視動保都重視 都非常重視都重視 那是卡在哪裡是還在細心雕琢那個文字還是怎麼樣還是公文旅行因為這個問題大家問很多次了就是每一次來假設大家都在問這件事情的話代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10609.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10629.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
農業部或行政院不重視嗎你們農業部送到行政院沒我們過去了已經過去多久了因為其實就像剛剛委員你們出農業部多久了沒有啦 我也沒有跟他說其實社會就是大家對這件事情的重視度很高所以行政院那邊希望把這個沒有 你們送出去多久了嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10632.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10646.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
應該11月有經過政務會議討論過了嘛11月你們11月才送出去沒有啦 我們之前送進去你們之前是去年就送了你們去年就送了送進去了那行政院到底在忙什麼忙了一年多 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10646.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10672.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
希望把大家有共識的經驗出來送進來那你們有去問要多久嗎我們一直在催因為大家都很重視那是卡在左宗泰院長不會啦就是有共識的版本出來就一定會馬上送到立法院所以是行政院還沒共識喔謝謝委員支持不是講這個官話啦是真的是太誇張了吧你們去年就送了你們去年就送了我記得農業部長還來過這邊我們還跟他詢答過耶 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10675.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
10694.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
然後結果行政院拖一年多完全不當一回事都在忙什麼大罷免喔不是都已經結束了嗎還在忙動物保護議題因為很重要太誇張了啦現在大家幾件事情我覺得大家應該都有共識吧你如果虐待動物加重其刑或罰則 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
10696.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
10712.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
還有收容廠的一些問題收容量呢都要提升嘛 是沒有問題嘛 是那上一次我在質詢部長的時候那時候我自己有提一個修正案啦應該是新增的就是如果說有 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
10713.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
10727.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
大量動物的收容所應該要納入縣市管理啦然後可是農業部的回應文字上的回應是講說不妥啦為什麼呢因為有些收容所他可能有地木啊各種型態啊所以納管會有困難 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
10728.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
10753.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
那當時我就不以為然因為我就印象當中之前比如說工廠也有很多地下工廠是衛利案也是有土地問題但是經濟部就可以訂一個衛利案工廠的管理辦法把它逐步納入管理那為什麼像動物收容所這種就沒辦法你如果不納管的話裡面出現虐待動物各種情勢你無法你可能比較難掌握或後續的一些處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
10754.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
10761.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
那部長後來當下他覺得確實文字不妥那我不知道說這件事情農業部後來有朝向哪個方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
10762.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
10787.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
應該是說不是不管啦因為其實他只要有收容動物這塊其實還是要去輔導要去理解特別是在 獵館獵館對是有獵館因為其實就是說包括他的免疫注射也好他對動物飼養的狀況其實這都要去所以應該嘛應該啦因為我在我花一個分鐘問另外一個議題啦那個把你們趕快送啦好不好大家才比較謝謝更能聚焦好然後我問一下齁我聽說啦齁那個液態乳的 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
10788.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
10807.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
會有一個平益價格的委員會過去都是9月10月就開了那今年到現在都還沒開可能是12月底才會開那我推測這應該是跟台北的關稅談判有關可能是不是台灣這邊已經確定要開放美國的義太盧了 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
10807.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
10832.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
那開放美國的液態爐因為現在的美國液態爐進來台灣是有根據是WTO的規定有一定的配額是關稅15%超過配額的話關稅會更高那現在如果說是比較沒有關稅的話美國液態爐進來那一定是消費者的福音因為像Costco的牛奶就很便宜嘛那農業部現在的狀況怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
10835.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
10855.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
那對農民的衝擊你們這個有提出相對應的保護措施嗎應該這樣講乳價平益委員會其實是由弱農跟乳廠組成的其實農業部不在那裡面所以價格是由農業部可以影響農業部每次都說比如說淡價委員會淡農的事跟我無關或者誰怎麼樣其實農業部都可以影響都撇一乾二淨 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
10855.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
10884.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
乳價評議委員因為我們沒有在裡面啦他們要開會其實我們是樂觀其成就是大家把這個價格對接好嘛因為其實弱農生產的先那好那關稅的問題欸關稅的問題要乳廠去收才能到消費者關稅的問題消費者沒有啦你不知道該沒有關那個吧一定是有關啦弱農也沒參加沒關係你可能不方便講啦我只是講說看起來可能對台灣的農業會衝擊很大啦相信你們應該已經做好相對應的措施了吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
10886.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
10915.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
不管關稅怎麼談 農業部絕對支持臺灣農業OK 好 謝謝好 謝謝接下來我們請賴世邦委員請做詢答謝謝主席以及各位先進有請農業部的杜次長我們再請杜次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
10919.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
10945.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
委員好我想先請教簡單的問題也重要的看起來台美關稅談判已經接近尾聲我們希望越快搞定越好那外界就很擔心很關心大家只有在考慮到說我要去美國要投資10千億美金啊都是去的但是大家很少 其實以前有談過 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
10946.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
10973.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
但是這被重視的程度沒那麼高就是美國的東西來台灣特別是老紅產品那我諮詢過相關的部會所長他們都是特別是這個台灣代表都有提到美國真的希望去全世界各國他們的產品的面臨到的關稅越低越好最好是0所以我就問你簡單的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
10976.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
10995.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
美方如果要求他來的農產品全面零關稅我們的農業會蓋進去嗎美方會有他的期待我們也要保護自己的保護你保護不了啊你知道雞腿棒20%的20%雞腿棒 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11001.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11014.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
牛肉這裡面大概十幾趴相關的牛肉片 關稅都在那裡影響農民很大 所以這個這方面我看到我看到農業部 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11016.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11042.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
沒有太大聲音耶你這樣說我要保護保護 要怎麼保護你要說我絕對反對絕對反對美國零關稅 你要這樣說嗎不是這樣說 因為應該是說不管是什麼情形 農業部絕對支持台灣農業 這是第一點第二點我們面對的其實也不只有台美關稅其實我們面對的是整個全球的貿易經濟那怎麼讓我們自己的農產品的生產我提醒你喔 全世界在比如說WTO |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11043.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11047.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
的架構底下幾乎每一個國家都保護他的農業基本上都是這樣子的絕對可以保護的 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11052.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11063.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
給它拆出來我希望今天要聽到你的聲音是農業部絕對反對美國農產品全面零關稅進來台灣你可以講這句話嗎農業部絕對支持台灣農產品反對美國農產品零關稅進來啦我問你這幾個三個字沒有啦這樣啦你敢說沒有應該說有些東西 比如說我們是屬於黃小玉一般的比較少接觸外嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11078.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11096.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
我對你說雞腿碰百分之二十啦雞腿碰百分之二十當然不會所有都零關稅對我們來說要補貨也是要補貨啊對不對假如對我們有好處的進來零關稅讓我們的農民拿到更便宜的東西這不是壞事你要小心喔你要回答這個話要小心喔你不要你說你支持我們的農業結果破壞我們的農業喔絕對支持我們的農業啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11100.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11126.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
第二點 第一點我跟妳說你現在公布廚餘的事2027年全面廚餘就是沒有廚餘的最終禁止他養豬是不是 確定落日會在哪一天是還在談因為其實像昨天我們跟養豬協會在談用地的東西不能提倡但是其實整個廚餘區還是有它的一個期限 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11126.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11141.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
現在可能外界關心的不是禁止而已禁止廚餘養豬比較關心的是廚餘產業鏈的問題你怎麼處理能不能把它飼料化 變成飼料日本這樣做是不是日本就是把廚餘變飼料啊我們當時有這個技術說可以把廚餘全面變飼料 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11149.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11169.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
那時間表 可不可以給我時間表廚餘的用途其實也不是只有做成飼料廚餘也能做到多少你去做生殖能去做堆肥去去黑水盲去化 產業鏈啦後面產業鏈完整可以再利用我們或者是飼料或者其他的生殖能源你剛剛講的recycling |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11170.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11195.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
什麼時候可以做到那一步這叫愛蒙環境部愛蒙環境部怎麼會 你要想法啦 你要有想法好啦 我們現在不要有起噴啦不要有這個動物疫病的危險但是環境部就廚餘的去化包括源頭的減量包括的多元利用包括它的後端的管控 其實環境部有在做可是農業部的站點重要的一開始是你們的啊這不就是你們的啊 不然是處理一下他們處理的 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11195.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11199.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
所以我可不可以這樣講 你這政策已經上路了家庭 家裡的那種什麼事你給我時間表吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11213.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11231.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
我們來專門給環境部請他給一個完整規劃這樣是嗎不是不是 我說你禁止廚餘禁止廚餘的我們可以來講啦好啦 你禁止廚餘的我們來講啦你直接表講一下啦家用的是什麼時候然後一般事業什麼時候我們行政院拍板我們來講 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11232.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11249.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
阿妳就一定等到2027這樣沒有啦 行政院還不會拍板啦我們前陣子跟養豬團體 他們也提了很多意見阿妳的消息不是都記住了嗎補助線很痛批說2027確定啦 所以沒有確定養豬團體其實希望可以進走啦阿我們也盡量把這個補助轉型的方式沒有啦 2027這個時間對不對啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11251.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11280.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
就要等行政院拍板所以那個還沒有搞定可以一年早就早一點這樣現在說過了應該不是我們說的啦明天這套片你寫的 結果說過了嗎應該這兩天就會確定啦這兩天可以確定什麼時候 這個禮拜可以確定嗎要行政院拍板才對外正式我們希望不僅僅禁止啦而且是怎麼樣那個處理啦再利用啦recycling這個非常重要啦 好不好好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11283.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11300.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
好 謝謝接下來我們請郭育琴委員請做詢答好 謝謝主席有請次長跟司長好 我們請兩位 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11306.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11323.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
兩位早安其實講到動物保護這件事情台灣雖然起步比較慢因為到現在為止我們的動保法其實差不多是40年左右這樣子的一個進程但是其實我們也看到一步一步的在往前前進那這次的這個動保法的修法我也提出了很多的版本但是其實我 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11323.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11346.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
一直不斷地在強調不論是什麼樣的品種不論是什麼樣的一個動物的生命不管是陪伴動物也好 競技動物也好實驗動物也好 爬蟲類也好異種的管理 源頭管理非常的重要但是在源頭管理沒有辦法落地來落實的時候其實我們中間還有好長的一段路要走那尤其是現在又跟過去的整個所有的整體環境又不一樣了 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11347.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11373.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
現在數位平台的發展是遠超乎我們的想像所以在整個所有的數位平台當中是不是也存在著所謂的虐待動物甚至是黑市的這樣子的一個狀況存在那我想今天就幾個問題我們來提醒一下就是不管是我們的這個農業部也好或者是甚至接下來可能抒發部或者是我們的NCC可能這個部分我們要怎麼樣來跨部會來做 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11374.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11392.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
更強烈的一些規範好那我先提到喔很多人在講說山豬釣到底山豬釣釣的真的只有山豬嗎那現在其實我們這個在網路上隨便搜尋幾百塊錢的這樣子的一個工具是隨時都看得到 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11393.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11414.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
他只要換了所謂的這個關鍵字他其實就可以模糊這樣的一個焦點那在平台上面來做販售他已經直接危害到不管是我們的野生或者是保育類動物甚至於貓犬等等像這一類的這個列據是完全無法可管好這是第一個問題我想點出來的第二個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11416.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11430.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
現在在網路上面流竄的還有很多食品安全的危害的問題我所謂的食品安全的問題是包含它是自製的不管是鮮食也好或者是風乾過後的一些產品也好它分裝成所謂的寵物食品在網路上做販售但是它沒有成分的檢驗也沒有產品的責任險等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11442.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11470.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
這些我們應該要怎麼樣才有法可管這個是第二個問題再來第三個就是我一直不斷的在關心私繁的問題私人繁殖場非法繁殖場有特寵症的人人犬舍都會出事更何況是私繁的問題現在也潛藏在整個所有的網路平台不管是利用IG也好用LINE也好他們其實都在做這樣子的私繁的一個延伸 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11471.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11490.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
這個部分我們常常只有追究所謂的行為人強調行為人的責任但是平台的責任誰要來管我們是不是可以負起這樣子的一個監管的一個責任這是第三個問題再來第四個問題包含我們看到查緝的死角 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11491.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11507.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
販售也好交換資訊的一個溫床有沒有可能讓網路平台已經成為了我們是無法可以監管就算我們看得到抓不到或者是抓得到其實為時已經晚了這個部分我想請教一下這個農業部或者是 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11507.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11512.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
我們的動保司我們平台要不要負起該負的責任那麼這個我把問題點出來今天因為時間上的一個關係包含我們動物風險的一些所謂的品項我們應該要有非常嚴格的審查的一個制度然後再來包含列具食品的安全保健品等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11529.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11550.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
甚至活體的動物在線上在做平台的交換或者是買賣這個我們要不要追究平台的責任我們應該要怎麼管我想修法的路很長雖然在動保法我提了非常多的版本我也跟我們的司長跟副司長我們討論過非常多次也接收到很多的民間的團體對我們的請託但是我想再次的強調不論動物是誰 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11557.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11573.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
不論任何品種我們都希望保護動物這件事情是台灣我們每一個人大家都有的共識即便我們看到綠列蜥很多人說牠們是爬蟲類爬蟲類也是生命啊我們看到就算牠不是冷血動物牠是變溫動物牠反手被綁 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11576.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11600.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
他繁殖過量源頭沒有管制被一隻隻像烤肉串串起來被獵殺他說數量多了我們就來殺這不是我們愛動物尊重動物尊重生命的一種態度我想今天我就提到這邊很抱歉因為今天時間有限沒有讓兩位來做回答我想事後我們還有很多的時間可以坐下來好好的面對動物保護在台灣的一些問題好嗎好謝謝兩位謝謝好謝謝謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11606.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11628.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
接下來我們請張雅玲委員請做詢問現在主席我們有請次長我們再請杜次 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
11633.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
11652.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
委員好 次長好我想跟您討論一下上個週末非常熱搜的一個新聞叫做大動山派出所貓的報恩他們後來是說這個是友善餵養我想次長應該非常知道這個新聞內容我就不多說但是我想問一下友善餵養有這個名詞嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
11655.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
11683.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
我們有這個名詞嗎沒有這個名詞我想我們現在應該是幼哺的時候嘛在有時候我們在動保處要作業的時候我們才會允許這樣子的一個餵養動作嘛我們應該沒有屬於友善餵養嘛那在我們的動保法裡面呢其實在第21條第20條都是禁止放養這個到底算不算放養報告委員放養的概念是有4組的動物好 那我就問這樣子算不算4組警政署這樣算不算4組 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
11685.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
11694.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
如果能夠確定是有那個照顧的事實那就會視同為管理人那也就是事主動保法的定義 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
11694.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
11723.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
好這個就是現在就是有很多的不確定性嘛對不對這個案例就顯示了我們現在法的許多的不確定性因為我們在實務上面我們沒有辦法明確說他是一個有主人的認定的話我們就沒有辦法用後續剛剛講的禁止放養等等來去約束他也就是說在我們現在很多的狀況之下很多人就說我是用友善慰養各種的方式來說結果呢出事的時候都說這都不是我的 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
11724.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
11744.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
不管是造成人員的傷亡有很多的學生也來跟我講他們在學校的時候很怕被這個遊蕩犬給追咬或是他騎車上學的時候每天經過某一條路他都非常的害怕那最近他出事了他就受傷了而這樣子的事件呢一年就有三千起被追咬的這個案例 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
11745.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
11763.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
是現在實務上我們是無法處理的所以我覺得這是動保法裡面最大的一個漏洞我們講四組責任我們講源頭觀念可是我們沒有辦法去處理這一種五組飼養的認定我覺得這個是動保法動保司應該要來提出相關的具體作為跟修法的那不曉得動保司的想法是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
11766.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
11778.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
報告委員從這個角度我們會來做一個思考讓它整個質詢跟文字能夠更清楚讓它配套能夠更明確否則那個存在剛剛提到的模糊的空間實是不利於整個動保工作的落實 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
11780.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
11798.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
好 這樣聽起來是會往這個方向來去思考我們來如何的讓這一些不自主的認定上面可以更明確好 那再來就是說還有我們現在在這一個大動物的派出所這邊它其實坐落在的位置 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
11798.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
11827.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
是在大雪山國家森林遊樂區以及他附近的在遠一點的地方有雪壩自然保護區所以那邊其實有非常非常多的一個野生動物那我想我們在這個野生動物的一個保育上面呢這個這個地方警政署這樣子的作為實質上就會影響到我們一些野生動物的保育我不曉得說內政部我們會不會去跟內政部警政署做相關的溝通呢動保司 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
11829.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
11858.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
对 因为它直接影响到目前这个案子我们的了解是台中市动保处已经到现场去做一些等于是捕捉跟移除的动作那这部分已经正式在处理了但是据我所知警政署有很多的警察局其实都在我们的很多的森林保护区也都在我们的山里那如果我们的警政警察同仁没有这样子的一个观念就是说不可以喂养的观念的话那我们就有很多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
11858.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
11885.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
野生動物會因此而受害所以我建議我們應該要跟警政署來去做一個強化的溝通跟教育訓練讓他們了解我們應該要依法而且要有一個更進步的觀念去保護我們野生動物這個物種我想跟那個警政署那邊特別是坐落在那個保護區裡面的這些警察局該要相關的觀念的溝通我們會來做好 再進一步延伸下來今天我們這一些遊蕩犬牠會跑進豬圈裡呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
11889.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
11912.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
這個其實是有新聞 他衝進豬圈裡有這樣子的案例因為他會爬地去自己把網子弄開自己跑進去對 他衝進豬圈裡那我們前陣子非洲豬瘟的這個我想記憶猶新嘛 大家都很害怕沒有辦法好好守護我們的台灣豬那豬隻 這個狗狗跑進了這些豬圈裡面會不會也有可能是防非洲豬瘟的一個破口呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
11912.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
11928.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
其實不管是在防疫上面或是其實對於那個豬場本身的驚嚇豬跟豬的主人的驚嚇其實都是一個干擾好 所以我想這個就是我們都要非常小心疫情的擴散不管是非洲豬瘟也好甚至是狂犬病 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
11929.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
11953.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
因為最近我查了一下資料就是說前陣子我們苗栗有一個疑似犬隻感染狂犬病雖然說它是陰性可是事實上我們現在也非常明確的知道說我們這個區域已經從山區往人類聚集期像這一次是在牧場發生的所以因為狂犬病是人犬會相通的一個疾病 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
11954.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
11956.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
所以我認為這個遊蕩權的處置方式我們要更積極不應該這麼消極在法的層面上面我們都應該要更強調這個餵食者的責任可以嗎因為這個其實是人社會安全還有我們的經濟安全還有防疫的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
11973.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
11992.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
這個東西要請這個農業部更積極的來去提出一些修法的版本那再來我要幫這個前線人員來請個命啦就是說102年的農委會跟機關署其實有一個前線人員疫苗施打方案但是102年之後就沒有了可是我們這個黃血病其實是逐漸在擴散逐漸在往北移 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
11993.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12020.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
那我們是不是可以讓我們的前線人員都有可以施打的計畫呢因為現在我們常備的疫苗只有1萬支總共只有3300人可以施打可是高風險人是超過3300的包含我們的巡山員保齊特生中心公職的獸醫師都會存在風險我們是不是可以提供一個相關的計畫來支持他們來保護他們我們來跟疾管署講像每年流感季節很多去處理禽流感的第一線夥伴其實是有打流感疫苗 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12020.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12046.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
那在狂犬病的部分我想我們會跟疾管署來請求把這個照冊然後希望能夠編列能夠讓他們去施打疫苗因為這個確實在第一線執行業務有它的危險好 那再來是下一個部分也是要幫獸醫師請命就是說我們的獸醫師其實他們現在已經有太多太多的新聞我想這個次長也都非常清楚他們說他們的人力不足行政負荷過重以及他們常常要這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12048.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12069.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
處理很多這個遊蕩犬的問題不管是人犬衝突啦各種衝突等等的所以他們其實沒有時間去處理應該要做好的一些防疫工作所以這些行政上面的工作上面我們常常就只有告訴他說我們會他們明明需要一些支持可是你們給他們的支持卻是說你們會給他們更多的輔導跟訓練 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12070.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12097.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
好像沒有對到他們的需要他們需要的支持你們卻只有告訴他們會給他加強訓練我覺得這不合理還有在另外一個部分就是說我們現在很多的收容中心其實周轉率非常非常的差那獸醫師要花非常非常多的時間去照顧那些其實已經符合國際標準動物福利的觀念他其實要做一些人道處理不然其實讓這個動物承受的痛苦是更長更久其實對動物是更不人道的做法可是他們沒有辦法去執法 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12098.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12119.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
但是呢我們動保我們農業部動保也沒有給他任何的態度去支持他們這個部分我認為其實我們應該要建立一個支持的機制來減輕他們的壓力我們的想法呢完全朝這個方向不只是在執行上面讓他們能夠更順利的去做還有行政作業上面心理上面的壓力也能夠更減少好那這個部分我們是不是可以約個時間再來詳細的討論非常樂意好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12127.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12131.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
好 我們今天中午不休息到我們議程全部確認 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12134.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12155.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
接下來我們請林倩琦委員 林倩琦委員我們請陳冠廷委員 陳冠廷委員我們請張志倫委員 張志倫 張志倫委員請武力華委員 武力華 武力華委員請蘇清泉委員 蘇清泉 蘇清泉委員請洪孟凱委員 洪孟凱 洪孟凱委員請吳佩義 吳佩義 吳佩義委員請羅廷偉 羅廷偉 羅廷偉委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12160.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12168.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
請羅明財 羅明財 羅明財委員請徐欣盈 徐欣盈 徐欣盈委員請李昆城 李昆城 李昆城委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12171.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12195.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
那我们登记发言的委员除了不在场之外其余都已经发言完毕 询答结束我们有委员 张志伦委员 邱志伟委员以及吴佩义委员所提书面质询列入记录刊登公报书面质询以及未及答复的部分请相关单位于一周之内以书面答复不付之本会那委员另要求期限所 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12196.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12209.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
期限者從期鎖定那我們今天討論的事項所列的議程動物保護法部分條文修正草案詢答完畢令定期繼續進行審查 散會 |