iVOD / 170888
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林岱樺 @
| Start Time | End Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00:00,000 | 00:00:18,200 | 好 有請我們陳提名人 |
| 00:00:18,200 | 00:00:20,600 | 請陳佩提名人 |
| 00:00:20,600 | 00:00:25,600 | 好 |
| 00:00:26,200 | 00:00:30,000 | 首先在代華如果身為晚輩 |
| 00:00:30,000 | 00:00:32,700 | 我真的是非常敬佩陳院長 |
| 00:00:32,700 | 00:00:37,300 | 你過往對在醫療還有人權上的貢獻 |
| 00:00:37,300 | 00:00:41,800 | 所以今天聽到您能夠被提名為我們監察院院長提名人 |
| 00:00:41,800 | 00:00:46,400 | 我本人是非常的替臺灣人民高興 |
| 00:00:46,400 | 00:00:48,500 | 那但是還是有幾個議題 |
| 00:00:48,500 | 00:00:52,400 | 我覺得您是做足了準備 |
| 00:00:52,400 | 00:00:55,400 | 這個您可以是說在歷任院長當中 |
| 00:00:55,400 | 00:00:58,900 | 你很正式連費監察院這個議題 |
| 00:00:58,900 | 00:01:00,199 | 你都把它納入 |
| 00:01:00,199 | 00:01:03,800 | 那你也認為這是一個民間的一個聲音 |
| 00:01:03,800 | 00:01:04,500 | 那所以呢 |
| 00:01:04,500 | 00:01:07,100 | 你也認為目前該怎麼做 |
| 00:01:07,100 | 00:01:08,900 | 未來你怎麼準備 |
| 00:01:08,900 | 00:01:12,600 | 所以你認為現在應該要提升辦案的效率跟品質 |
| 00:01:12,600 | 00:01:15,000 | 才是監察院的改革核心 |
| 00:01:15,000 | 00:01:19,600 | 但你對於這個這樣費經院的準備工作 |
| 00:01:19,600 | 00:01:22,000 | 你也提到說你的改革第六項 |
| 00:01:22,000 | 00:01:25,500 | 是要成立這個修憲工作小組 |
| 00:01:25,500 | 00:01:26,800 | 在這當中 |
| 00:01:26,800 | 00:01:30,500 | 如果監察權跟審計權應該如何的轉移 |
| 00:01:30,500 | 00:01:32,800 | 國家人權委員會的定位 |
| 00:01:32,800 | 00:01:34,600 | 以及在憲法當中 |
| 00:01:34,600 | 00:01:36,100 | 採三權的話 |
| 00:01:36,100 | 00:01:40,300 | 我們這個國會結構跟職能如何來調整因應 |
| 00:01:40,300 | 00:01:41,300 | 所以本席 |
| 00:01:41,300 | 00:01:45,500 | 我覺得您都對於現在的監察院跟 |
| 00:01:45,500 | 00:01:49,900 | 以及體察民意要做怎麼樣的一個調整的監察院 |
| 00:01:49,900 | 00:01:51,900 | 我覺得你都做足了準備 |
| 00:01:51,900 | 00:01:55,000 | 但是另外一個讓我敬佩的地方 |
| 00:01:55,000 | 00:01:57,200 | 您的報告當中也提到說 |
| 00:01:57,200 | 00:01:59,600 | 監察院這六年來 |
| 00:01:59,600 | 00:02:02,300 | 109年8月到115年來 |
| 00:02:02,300 | 00:02:06,000 | 受理民眾的懲刑案十萬件 |
| 00:02:06,000 | 00:02:06,200 | 好 |
| 00:02:06,200 | 00:02:10,800 | 那這個每年受理的案件是1萬5000件 |
| 00:02:10,800 | 00:02:14,400 | 每位的監察委員辦案是超過600件 |
| 00:02:14,400 | 00:02:15,600 | 這表示什麼 |
| 00:02:15,600 | 00:02:17,000 | 社會是什麼 |
| 00:02:17,000 | 00:02:19,900 | 冤氣沖天 |
| 00:02:19,900 | 00:02:25,200 | 所以如果你都能夠體察到這樣的一個無助的心聲 |
| 00:02:25,200 | 00:02:29,200 | 面對強權的壓迫不公的審判 |
| 00:02:29,200 | 00:02:32,700 | 弱勢民眾是求助無門的 |
| 00:02:32,700 | 00:02:35,200 | 所以本席是認為 |
| 00:02:35,200 | 00:02:37,300 | 對於你也提到 |
| 00:02:37,300 | 00:02:38,100 | 你也提到 |
| 00:02:38,100 | 00:02:41,900 | 我覺得你您這個是非常的這個非常棒 |
| 00:02:41,900 | 00:02:44,700 | 您認為在我們調查案當中 |
| 00:02:44,700 | 00:02:47,800 | 彈劾成案的多位高階公務人員 |
| 00:02:47,900 | 00:02:51,000 | 甚至不法檢察官跟法官招唐 |
| 00:02:51,000 | 00:02:55,200 | 逐漸台灣社會對司法不公與行政不法 |
| 00:02:55,200 | 00:02:58,300 | 確實存有相當的名怨 |
| 00:02:58,300 | 00:03:02,100 | 而監察院是人民聲援的最後的救濟管道 |
| 00:03:02,100 | 00:03:06,400 | 也是追求社會公益保障人權的重要憲政機構 |
| 00:03:06,400 | 00:03:10,900 | 我想你已經把你對於監察院的期許講得很清楚 |
| 00:03:10,900 | 00:03:11,400 | 所以 |
| 00:03:11,400 | 00:03:13,400 | 古代是燃冤生教 |
| 00:03:13,400 | 00:03:16,600 | 現在的監察院是有這麼多平均 |
| 00:03:16,600 | 00:03:18,799 | 每年有1.5萬件的懲刑案 |
| 00:03:18,799 | 00:03:20,100 | 而立案之後 |
| 00:03:20,100 | 00:03:22,500 | 我也要提供給你一個數據 |
| 00:03:22,500 | 00:03:25,799 | 就是每一年成案有立案 |
| 00:03:25,799 | 00:03:29,100 | 還是都有上百件的預期未結 |
| 00:03:29,100 | 00:03:31,799 | 而這樣的重大的專案的調查 |
| 00:03:31,799 | 00:03:33,600 | 時程都長達一到兩年 |
| 00:03:33,600 | 00:03:36,600 | 這讓等候公道的百姓 |
| 00:03:36,600 | 00:03:38,400 | 其實是備受煎熬的 |
| 00:03:38,400 | 00:03:42,700 | 所以您當任這樣的一個監察院院長說實在是 |
| 00:03:42,700 | 00:03:45,400 | 任重道遠 苦差事 |
| 00:03:45,400 | 00:03:47,400 | 但是本席要提出的 |
| 00:03:47,400 | 00:03:52,600 | 現在的監察院有沒有一些憲政上的漢革之處 |
| 00:03:52,600 | 00:03:53,300 | 第一個 |
| 00:03:53,300 | 00:03:55,300 | 所謂的人權漢革 |
| 00:03:55,300 | 00:03:57,700 | 人權會有倡議權 |
| 00:03:57,700 | 00:04:00,000 | 但是他們有執行的預算 |
| 00:04:00,000 | 00:04:03,600 | 行政院有執行的預算跟執行權 |
| 00:04:03,600 | 00:04:05,500 | 兩者是沒有對接的 |
| 00:04:05,500 | 00:04:06,100 | 所以 |
| 00:04:06,100 | 00:04:09,900 | 行程全責分離疊船駕鶩 |
| 00:04:09,900 | 00:04:10,800 | 所以監察院 |
| 00:04:10,800 | 00:04:11,600 | 我再講一次 |
| 00:04:11,700 | 00:04:12,799 | 監察院 |
| 00:04:12,799 | 00:04:14,299 | 這個有人權 |
| 00:04:14,299 | 00:04:15,400 | 國家人權委員會 |
| 00:04:15,400 | 00:04:18,399 | 但行政院也有人權處 |
| 00:04:18,399 | 00:04:18,700 | 好 |
| 00:04:18,700 | 00:04:22,600 | 那衛福部跟勞動部長管弱勢權益 |
| 00:04:22,600 | 00:04:24,600 | 那人權會做的是倡議 |
| 00:04:24,600 | 00:04:27,600 | 執行權跟預算權卻在行政院 |
| 00:04:27,600 | 00:04:28,800 | 就會被質疑了 |
| 00:04:28,800 | 00:04:30,100 | 這樣的疊船駕鶩 |
| 00:04:30,100 | 00:04:34,200 | 我們這個這個國家人權委員會還有存在的必要嗎 |
| 00:04:34,200 | 00:04:35,700 | 你做倡議而已 |
| 00:04:35,700 | 00:04:36,000 | 好 |
| 00:04:36,000 | 00:04:38,400 | 這就是人權的漢革之一 |
| 00:04:38,400 | 00:04:41,000 | 第二個是調查漢革 |
| 00:04:41,000 | 00:04:44,100 | 我們監察院以廉政署 |
| 00:04:44,100 | 00:04:47,100 | 其實對現在的公務人員其實很辛苦 |
| 00:04:47,100 | 00:04:48,400 | 他要被監督 |
| 00:04:48,400 | 00:04:50,100 | 是多方的被監督 |
| 00:04:50,100 | 00:04:51,300 | 怎麼要被監督呢 |
| 00:04:51,300 | 00:04:53,300 | 監察院跟廉政署 |
| 00:04:53,300 | 00:04:55,200 | 這個是對同一個案子 |
| 00:04:55,200 | 00:04:56,600 | 會重複發動調查 |
| 00:04:56,600 | 00:04:59,600 | 造成公務體系的雙重受查 |
| 00:04:59,600 | 00:05:01,400 | 防衛性的行政 |
| 00:05:01,400 | 00:05:01,800 | 所以 |
| 00:05:01,800 | 00:05:06,400 | 我們現在基層的公務人員面臨高度分散的監督機制 |
| 00:05:06,400 | 00:05:07,600 | 怎麼樣的 |
| 00:05:07,600 | 00:05:09,300 | 怎麼樣的高度分散呢 |
| 00:05:09,400 | 00:05:11,200 | 內部有證封 |
| 00:05:11,200 | 00:05:14,400 | 法務部的廉政署是行政訴單 |
| 00:05:14,400 | 00:05:17,500 | 法務部下的檢調是刑事責任 |
| 00:05:17,500 | 00:05:21,800 | 我們司法院有審証法院 |
| 00:05:21,800 | 00:05:27,900 | 我們監察院對這個公務人員是憲政的糾正跟彈劾 |
| 00:05:27,900 | 00:05:30,600 | 所以說你對於我們要監督公務人員 |
| 00:05:30,600 | 00:05:34,300 | 來自這麼多元分散的一個監督機制 |
| 00:05:34,300 | 00:05:38,600 | 反而是讓我們的公務人員在面對民意的體察 |
| 00:05:38,600 | 00:05:42,100 | 跟解決的時候他舉足不前 |
| 00:05:42,100 | 00:05:45,400 | 動不動我這是不是有圖利之嫌 |
| 00:05:45,400 | 00:05:47,400 | 動不動這個是不是有這個 |
| 00:05:47,400 | 00:05:50,400 | 他擴大了解釋這個法規 |
| 00:05:50,400 | 00:05:52,900 | 所以是不是真的能夠解決民怨 |
| 00:05:52,900 | 00:05:57,800 | 其實也在於這麼多的行政的相關調查 |
| 00:05:57,800 | 00:05:59,300 | 針對我們公務人員 |
| 00:05:59,300 | 00:06:01,400 | 是這麼高度的監督機制 |
| 00:06:01,400 | 00:06:03,000 | 所以你認為 |
| 00:06:03,000 | 00:06:07,000 | 你如何釐清跟化解這樣人權的漢革 |
| 00:06:07,000 | 00:06:09,200 | 跟調查的漢革呢 |
| 00:06:09,200 | 00:06:14,500 | 國家人權委員會成立是因應國際人權公約 |
| 00:06:14,500 | 00:06:19,500 | 聯合國的這些人權公約參與的國家 |
| 00:06:19,500 | 00:06:24,400 | 經常要求因為我們也去簽署了這個人權公約 |
| 00:06:24,400 | 00:06:29,000 | 所以他就要求台灣應該也要有國際人權的委員會 |
| 00:06:29,000 | 00:06:29,800 | 國家的 |
| 00:06:29,800 | 00:06:33,000 | 其實我覺得國家人權委員應該獨立出來 |
| 00:06:33,000 | 00:06:36,000 | 而且應該給他有實質的功能 |
| 00:06:36,000 | 00:06:39,000 | 不是只有政策或者是說宣導 |
| 00:06:39,000 | 00:06:43,500 | 那放在監察院其實我覺得不必要 |
| 00:06:43,500 | 00:06:45,500 | 他需要是一個獨立機構 |
| 00:06:45,500 | 00:06:50,000 | 至於監察權跟這些聯政署或者政風單位 |
| 00:06:50,000 | 00:06:53,000 | 確實有重複的地方 |
| 00:06:53,000 | 00:06:56,500 | 我覺得如果真的要加強對公務員的監督 |
| 00:06:56,500 | 00:07:00,500 | 其實不妨考慮可不可以把這些單位合起來 |
| 00:07:00,500 | 00:07:03,500 | 那如果說將來立法院修法 |
| 00:07:04,000 | 00:07:07,000 | 可以把這個監察院的職權更集中 |
| 00:07:07,000 | 00:07:10,500 | 讓這個聯政署或者是政風單位 |
| 00:07:10,500 | 00:07:12,500 | 也可以到監察院裡頭來 |
| 00:07:12,500 | 00:07:14,000 | 那對公務員的監督呢 |
| 00:07:14,000 | 00:07:17,500 | 就是由監察院充分的去行使 |
| 00:07:17,500 | 00:07:21,500 | 因為我事實上也覺得監察院現在的這個辦案量 |
| 00:07:21,500 | 00:07:24,500 | 要要求他們其實有點困難 |
| 00:07:24,500 | 00:07:28,000 | 因為一個監察委員那麼多案子 |
| 00:07:28,000 | 00:07:31,500 | 他能分配到的監察官只有兩個三個 |
| 00:07:32,000 | 00:07:34,000 | 比一個立法委員的助理還要少 |
| 00:07:34,000 | 00:07:37,500 | 他們要辦案子都是 |
| 00:07:37,500 | 00:07:39,500 | 而且他不像檢察官 |
| 00:07:39,500 | 00:07:41,500 | 檢察官可以搜索 |
| 00:07:41,500 | 00:07:42,500 | 可以監聽 |
| 00:07:42,500 | 00:07:45,000 | 可以就是很強行的介入 |
| 00:07:45,000 | 00:07:49,000 | 監察院是事後才開始展開調查 |
| 00:07:49,000 | 00:07:50,500 | 那用約詢 |
| 00:07:50,500 | 00:07:53,500 | 那有的政府官員就不一定理會你 |
| 00:07:53,500 | 00:07:55,500 | 所以我覺得監察院的功能要加強 |
| 00:07:55,500 | 00:07:57,500 | 還有很多可以努力的地方 |
| 00:07:57,500 | 00:07:58,500 | 我覺得非常棒 |
| 00:07:58,500 | 00:08:00,500 | 這個我非常肯定 |
| 00:08:00,500 | 00:08:04,500 | 您剛才有這樣的一個大方向的主張 |
| 00:08:04,500 | 00:08:06,500 | 那其實總統提名 |
| 00:08:06,500 | 00:08:10,500 | 您也是在推崇美麗島世代對台灣民主的貢獻 |
| 00:08:10,500 | 00:08:13,500 | 那包括我個人作為一個您的晚輩 |
| 00:08:13,500 | 00:08:16,500 | 那我能夠在這個議事堂上當中 |
| 00:08:16,500 | 00:08:18,500 | 能夠為人民發聲 |
| 00:08:18,500 | 00:08:20,500 | 其實也都是在您的這樣 |
| 00:08:20,500 | 00:08:24,500 | 美麗島世代的這樣的一個前輩之下的倡議 |
| 00:08:24,500 | 00:08:25,500 | 你們走上街頭 |
| 00:08:25,500 | 00:08:27,500 | 甚至在追溯黨外的時候 |
| 00:08:27,500 | 00:08:33,500 | 對於那種真的是威權之下的那種的風聲鶴唳 |
| 00:08:33,500 | 00:08:36,500 | 所帶來的家破人亡 |
| 00:08:36,500 | 00:08:38,500 | 所以我個人是非常肯定的 |
| 00:08:38,500 | 00:08:43,500 | 那當然對於講到現在您身為這樣的被提名人 |
| 00:08:43,500 | 00:08:47,500 | 這個玉石大夫是風聞驟事 |
| 00:08:47,500 | 00:08:49,500 | 他可以不需要任何的證據 |
| 00:08:49,500 | 00:08:51,500 | 就當時古代的封建時代 |
| 00:08:51,500 | 00:08:53,500 | 就給了他這個權利 |
| 00:08:53,500 | 00:08:56,500 | 那在民主時代當然是講求證據的科學辦案 |
| 00:08:56,500 | 00:08:59,500 | 那監察院除了接受陳情之外 |
| 00:08:59,500 | 00:09:01,500 | 更應該發揮主動調查 |
| 00:09:01,500 | 00:09:05,500 | 所以像其實先前我們行政院經貿談判辦公室 |
| 00:09:05,500 | 00:09:08,500 | 副總代表嚴慧心的職場霸凌案 |
| 00:09:08,500 | 00:09:11,500 | 就是監察院你們主動調查的 |
| 00:09:11,500 | 00:09:16,500 | 所以才讓這個真相大白還給當事人公道 |
| 00:09:16,500 | 00:09:18,500 | 所以今天本席要講的 |
| 00:09:18,500 | 00:09:21,500 | 其實在面對這麼大的一個陳情案 |
| 00:09:21,500 | 00:09:25,500 | 每年一點萬件的這樣的一個陳情案 |
| 00:09:25,500 | 00:09:29,500 | 國人對監察制度是認同跟期待的 |
| 00:09:29,500 | 00:09:34,500 | 沒有人渴望有堅守公義的當代包青天 |
| 00:09:34,500 | 00:09:37,500 | 所以本席認為制度本身沒有問題 |
| 00:09:37,500 | 00:09:40,500 | 重點在於人有沒有風骨 |
| 00:09:40,500 | 00:09:43,500 | 有沒有苦民所苦的心 |
| 00:09:43,500 | 00:09:48,500 | 這也就是本席認為社會執意的焦點 |
| 00:09:48,500 | 00:09:50,500 | 也就是從來不是監察制度 |
| 00:09:50,500 | 00:09:54,500 | 而是監察委員是否具備足夠的獨立性 |
| 00:09:54,500 | 00:09:58,500 | 適任性能夠真正做到打老虎 |
| 00:09:58,500 | 00:10:00,500 | 而不是只有打蒼蠅而已 |
| 00:10:00,500 | 00:10:04,500 | 所以本席對於您所提出的六項的改革方案 |
| 00:10:04,500 | 00:10:07,500 | 其中我都非常肯定 |
| 00:10:07,500 | 00:10:10,500 | 那只有第二項我非常的保留 |
| 00:10:10,500 | 00:10:12,500 | 你說我們要有這個鼓勵媒體 |
| 00:10:12,500 | 00:10:17,500 | 跟公民監督團體定期評鑑監察委員的表現 |
| 00:10:17,500 | 00:10:18,500 | 到這邊我認同 |
| 00:10:18,500 | 00:10:20,500 | 到後面我保留 |
| 00:10:20,500 | 00:10:23,500 | 就是立法院已有公督盟的公民制制度 |
| 00:10:23,500 | 00:10:25,500 | 你認為可以導入 |
| 00:10:25,500 | 00:10:28,500 | 這個我們現在的公督盟已經流於形式化了 |
| 00:10:28,500 | 00:10:29,500 | 數量 |