| IVOD_ID |
17087 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17087 |
| 日期 |
2025-12-03 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-20-10 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期財政委員會第10次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
10 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期財政委員會第10次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-12-03T08:38:21+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-12-03T12:01:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
03:22:39 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/b41997f390c3528e66a919a0b9b1b1fb5497e3e866489b62b4456b5c46cbb78c90b498f9888788b25ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-12-03T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期財政委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：審查本院委員蔡易餘等16人、委員牛煦庭等26人分別擬具「銀行法第一百二十五條及第一百二十五條之四條文修正草案」等2案。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:38:21 - 12:01:00 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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好請主任秘書報告出席委員人數報告委員會出席委員與主法定人數我們現在開始開會請議事人員宣讀上次會議議事錄立法院第十一屆第四會期財政委員會第九次全體委員會議議事錄時間中華民國一百一十四年十一月二十七日星期四九時至十時十三分地點群雄樓九樓大禮堂出席委員李坤臣委員等十四人列席委員張啟凱委員等二人 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1382.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1407.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
列席官員財政部政事阮清華行政院主計總署主計長陳淑芝衛福部社會事代理司長陳貞慧勞動部政事李建宏法務部檢察官楊石宇及以上各部會計所屬單位代表主席李昭吉委員昆城報告事項宣讀上次會議議事錄決定議事錄確定討論事項繼續審查本院民進黨團理據財政收支劃分法第16條之一未分配 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1408.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1437.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
款運用暫行條例草案案決議令則期繼續審查 宣讀完畢好 我們請問各位委員對議事錄有意義沒有意義好 我們議事錄確定請議事人員宣讀今日議程審查本院委員蔡玉瑜等16人委員劉許廷等26人分別擬據銀行法第125條及第125條之四條文修正草案案等二案宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1439.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1462.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
我們先介紹我們今天在場的委員首先介紹林德福委員吳秉瑞委員牛許廷委員我們今天與會的政府官員有金管會主委彭金龍彭主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1466.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1494.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
銀行局 童鎮章 童局長政區局 高金平 高局長 歡迎保險局 王立惠 王局長檢察局 賴新國 賴局長 歡迎法務部法治司參事 廖江縣 廖參事 歡迎檢察司副司長 簡美惠 簡副司長 歡迎 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1498.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1523.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
我們本次會議安排審查本院委員蔡宇宜等16人委員牛許廷等26人分別擬據銀行法第125條及第125條之四條文修正草案將先請委員說明提案要之後再請金管會彭主委回應委員提案內容那麼我們先請牛許廷委員做提案說明三分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1529.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1545.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
謝主席 委員會的各位委員各位官員 各位媒體朋友大家早安今天針對銀行法有提出相關的修法這個本法案提出的初衷基本上是希望針對所謂的違法吸金行為能夠再次的加重刑責 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1546.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1571.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
這個大家都知道這個台灣人最不滿意的就是政府執行打詐相關的一個成效而違法吸金的這樣的一個行為其實牽涉的金額跟損失啊他在各項的詐騙的樣態裡面其實是最大的所以我們認為在不管在修什麼樣的法律如何的來把這個違法吸金的行為來做加重這我想是當初提案修正銀行法的一個重要的初衷也是最主要的目的 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1572.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1587.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
那麼當然我們在檢視法條的過程中我們有了解到這個地下會對的一個狀況也就是說在法條上的規範是比較嚴格而法院在實務見解上面的判決卻不見得是如此那麼如何透過法條的修正讓它比較合理這個我們也希望透過這個提案來做充分的討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1590.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1597.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
那麼這樣的法案不管是蔡議員的提案也好或者是本席的提案也好都是拋出一個大致的方向我們希望透過詢問的過程以及審查溝通的這個充分的對話看看這個法條的修正能不能找到一個最佳的平衡點 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1605.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
1627.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
但本席要再次強調這個修正相關的法律是以重罰違法吸金為主要目的如果我們的行政機關有很好的意見或者是說在不同的法條上有不同的修正意見都希望在報告跟巡查的過程中做清楚的說明以立立法院作為未來做最終決定的參考以上提案說明 謝謝好 謝謝牛許庭委員的提案說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
1628.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
1640.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
接下來請蔡議員說明提案要旨蔡議員蔡議員不在好接下來請經管會彭主會回應我們委員提案內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
1644.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
1666.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
主席各位委員各位媒體先進大家早安今天貴委員會審查牛委員及蔡委員分別擬據銀行法第125條及125條之四條文修正草案陳貴委員會邀請提出報告以下說明一針對非法收受存款及地下匯兌銀行法已有相關禁止規範銀行法第29條之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
1669.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
1697.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
二十九條第一項規定非銀行不得經營收受存款受託經理信託資金公眾財產或辦理國內外匯兌業務同法二十九條之一規定以借款收受投資使人加入為股東或其他名義向多數人或不特定人收受款項或吸收資金而約定給付與本金顯不相當之紅利利息 股息及其他報酬者以收受存款論 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
1699.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
1722.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
銀行法一二五條第一項規定違反二十九條第一項規定者處三年以上十年以下有期徒刑其犯罪獲取之財物或財產利益達一億元以上者處七年以上有期徒刑得併兩千五百萬元以上五億元以下罰金銀行法自民國六四年修法公佈以來將收受存款 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
1724.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
1738.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
會對業務並列為銀行專屬業務非受主管機關高度監理之銀行不得承作二者可責性及刑度相當有關委員等26人提出修正銀行法第125條及125條之四本會意見如下 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
1743.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
1772.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
提案將犯罪獲取之財物或財產上利益達新台幣1億元以上之加重處罰要件修改為因犯罪而實際獲得之財物或財產上利益達新台幣1億元以上一節依現行司法判決決議見解以認定非法經營匯兌業者所經手之款項以及匯款金額應記入銀行法第125條第一項鎖定因犯罪獲取之財物或財產上利益 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
1773.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
1800.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
若修改為因犯罪而實際獲取之財物或財產上利益加重處罰之構成要件認定標準將由匯兌款項改為匯兌手續費等同變相降低地下匯兌罰度匯兌涉及金流收服體系對我國國際貿易金流透明度及經濟金融秩序均有重大影響地下匯兌系洗錢之主要管道影響層面深遠 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
1802.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
1811.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
對公共利益之危害與可責性並未較收受存款為輕2024年國家洗錢資恐及資武擴風險評估報告評估結果地下會對屬非常高資洗錢威脅犯罪之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
1818.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
1840.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
非法匯兌原以經手匯款金額判斷是否加重刑責若改以所收之費用判斷因收取之費用通常遠低於匯款金額等同變相降低地下匯兌罰度恐不利於我國打擊具高度洗錢威脅之地下匯兌犯罪亦可能影響我國防治洗錢國際評鑑故建議維持現行規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
1843.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
1855.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
關於委員所提案增訂銀行法第25條第二項對銀行法第29條之一所定之違犯非法吸金罪者提高刑責一節 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
1857.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
1881.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
銀行法第29條之一的立法背景是當時社會有所謂地下投資公司利用借款收受投資大量吸收社會資金以稅行收受存款之時考量此類行為當時如質以違反公司法論處科以罰金無法發揮有效遏止作用乃將此種脫法收受存款行為擬制規定為收受存款 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
1882.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
1903.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
銀行法第29條之一系收受存款的樣態其性質人為第29條之一之收受存款故疑適用相同之法定型若單獨針對29條之一提高刑責有刑度不平衡之疑義且實務上具體個案亦可能無法完全區隔適用 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
1904.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
1927.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
故建議維持現行規定有關蔡易與委員等16人提案本會意見如下提案修正第125條第一項提高非法收受存款資並可罰金額度已結涉及與其他刑事處罰規定之橫評建議通盤考量委員提案增訂第125條第二項已結 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
1930.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
1942.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
受托經理信託資金公眾財產或辦理國外匯兌業務之刑度予以降低並以犯罪而實際獲得的財務或財產上利益作為是否加重處罰是構成要件 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
1944.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
1965.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
認定部分因受託經理信託資金或公眾財產與收受存款性質相近故適宜而相同之法定型若降低受託經理信託資金或公眾財產之刑度有刑度不平衡之疑議降低地下會對之刑度本會意見如前述二括號一 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
1967.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
1988.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
基於以上考量建議維持現行銀行法規定本會對於非法吸收資金及地下匯兌等金融違法案件均已請法務部調查局參處持續透過跨部會合作打擊金融犯罪以上報告敬請各位委員指教謝謝好 我們謝謝彭主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
1991.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2015.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
我們現在開始詢談 先做一下宣告每位初期委員發言時間8分鐘 必要時得延長2分鐘每位列席委員時間5分鐘 今日上午10點截止發言登記本次會議若有相關修正動議 請敬送主席台 必便議事人員整理現在我們依登記順序 請登記第一位的林德福委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2027.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2031.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
謝謝 謝謝主席是不是請金管會彭主委好 請彭主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2034.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2060.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
委員長 主委長主委我請教因為有媒體報導金管會統計九月底整個整體授權業國外的投資扣除外幣保單後那整個外幣的曝險額有15.1兆元那以國外投資部分扣除外幣保單的風險價值估算 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2063.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2076.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
大約需要1.5兆元的外價金才足夠抵禦整個匯率的風險那主委就受選業第三季財報整體外匯價格變動 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2080.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2106.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
準備金第三季底餘額有3418.8億元那我請問差了將近1兆1500多億的外價金那這個到底要不要補足那如果真的要補足你認為受選業要多久才能夠讓資金到位 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2107.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2131.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
謝謝委員關心我想主要剛剛提到是一個為什麼會有這個一兆元這樣左右的額度主要是我們根據過去的歷史經驗我們用VAR95就是我們所謂風險值95%來估計這個從一個白話講就是以20年的週期來看這個部分以20年過去的這個匯率的波動的話假設現在的外價金等於說有 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2131.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2159.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
累積到1兆多這樣的金額的時候呢大概可以抵禦這樣的一個金額那當然這是一個長期的過程那現在我們從今年開始我們到應該到了第三季的時候這部分的外價金應該會將近3800億那今年會應該會創下歷史新高因為我們今年到年底的時候我們還要強制提撥盈餘的30%明年在IFR實際開帳的時候呢會有有利影響數也會 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2160.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2179.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
也會增提外價金而且今年6月的時候已經有多家的受影公司申請外價金的新制也會強提的比例會提高我想這個比例會快速的增加我想這部分也是對於未來我們在防範匯率風險的時候是會有比較好的抵禦能力 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2182.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2203.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
那個初緯要是反過來外價金如果無法完全補足有沒有其他整個配套措施可以因應來搭配抵禦匯率的風險我想謝謝委任關心因為匯率的部分我們從過去的經驗來看的話其他是一個長期處於一個波動的狀態 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2204.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2219.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
我想這部分剛才提到是一個極端情境比如說剛才講是VAR95的意思是說大概約莫20年的最低點的時候比如說台幣升值到最高點的時候我們大概需要但實際上我們除非是持續維持在這樣一個比率 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2219.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2238.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
否則我們以這次的5月為例到現在為止從將近28塊多現在到31塊多其實這樣本來就處於一個箱型整理的區間所以這部分我們就是持續的強化這個受險業的體質累積外價金的方式來抵禦未來長期的匯率的波動風險 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2239.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2257.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
主委因為授權業者指出十月全球股市續揚那授權業實現股票資本利得增加加上台幣貶值帶動整個外價金水位走揚那由於外價金水位充沛 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2259.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2283.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
10月業者避嫌比例第一次跌破6成降到58.6%的史上低點顯示以外加金替代避嫌策略成型我請問主委授權業者外加金水位越高是不是代表匯率風險一定會越來越小 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2283.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2299.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
我想其實外價金是把它本來在匯兌的未實現收益把它轉化成一個負債的形式積存以備於未來假設真的出現了未實現損失的時候作為一個底沖減少對損益表的衝擊 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2301.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2330.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
我想剛剛提到委員很關心就是說我們的避險比率大概今年跌破6成其實在過去一直大概維持在6成1 6成2今年就是5成8我想這個大概就是還在一個範圍之內確實是因為外價金因為提高以後確實我們在受險業在特別是對一些高成本的避險工具上面它就有比較大的彈性可以減少這個所謂類似像NDF這樣比較高成本的避險工具的比率 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2331.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2360.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
我想其實我們在很多學術上的討論都知道其實受險業的資金它長期沒有現金流這個利期兌回的風險所以我們維持一個高的避險比率也有很多學界的討論說這是所謂的過度避險真正的避險應該還可以有一些不一樣的考量我想主要市場上確實是因為委員提到就是說我們的外價金達到一定程度以後對於損益表的衝擊已經有一定的抵禦能力所以他們會從一個經營成本的考量做一些調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2360.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2386.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
那個主委因為面對外價金水位的替代避險的需求增加那你認為對營運規模不同的受選業者又會發生哪些的影響當然我們的營運規模最主要是來自資產資產來自於保費收取的能力保費收取的能力跟他的投資能力有關所以剛剛委員提到了規模越大的越仰賴國外的投資從過去一直都是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2387.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2406.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
我想規模越大的公司資產越大資產越大因為台灣的投資工具有限只好對外投資我想這也是剛剛委員提到就是說如果說越大的公司他對匯率的曝險比例會越高那他們在匯率上面的操作匯率風險操作就要更精細更仔細的去面對他們匯率的風險 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2407.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2428.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
主委啊媒體報導授權業者希望調整匯率會計制度以符合授權業的經濟實質的狀況而且強調這不是完全不避險而是希望減少不必要的避險建議調整整個會計制度後也要強化整個財報的揭露 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2430.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2451.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
把握把匯率的風險治理拉高到公司的策略層次那我請問主委你認為調整匯率會計制度關鍵的時機有關鍵的時機嗎我想其實如果是我們已經發現到就是說現時的會計制度其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2453.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2473.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
當時並沒有考量到台灣壽險的特殊性我想最近有很多學術上面的討論我想也很多人也提出來確實我們現在這一套的所謂的對於這些國外的一些的投資採用這個即時匯率評價的方式不符合我們現在的壽險的經營模式我想這些已經很 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2474.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2502.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
很多的討論但是會計準則的本身並不會指導你做避險那避險是因為公司實際上承受的風險站在主管機關的立場我們更在意的就是說我們既然有投資在海外自然有匯率的風險的存在比如說財報如何表達是一回事但是財報的表達的本身他必須要允當表達但是公司面對的匯率風險該如何解決這是我們主管機關關心的所以剛剛委員也提到就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2503.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2520.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
我們在過去有可能產生所謂的過度避險的問題導致就是說我付了很高的成本但是沒有實質的規避掉我長期的現金流風險這一點的話我們會透過剛才講的委員提到就是說是否可以用強制提撥強制增資的方式來達到強化體質應對未來長期現金流會對風險的問題主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2525.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2542.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
因為有業者提出將匯率風險納入董事會與高層高階的這些管理層的監督範圍或是透過明確界定的責任來建立定期報告機制或是 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2543.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2562.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
定期評估匯率的變動對整個清償能力以淨值影響等以促進整體業者強化經營的韌性那逐年來改善公司的體制我請問主委你認為這樣就足以讓受選業者視為將匯率風險充分揭露了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2566.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2588.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
其實剛剛委員提到那個外界的提案我是覺得一個很好的想法其實就我過去的經驗裡面董事會因為特別是針對像匯率這麼大的一個這個項目董事會在每一次董事會我想各家大受選公司應該都非常關注也都會提出報告我想這件事情是應該要做的因為確實我們這麼大的部位在海外投資確實面對到 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2590.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2598.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
整個的匯率的風險那匯率風險如果會影響澳門長遠的清償能力本來就是董事會應該關切來討論一些要妥善找出方法的一個議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2599.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2626.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
主委因為媒體報導金管會推動受選業的非長期保證利率制度改革有譜重點之一是未來即使保護買的保單屬於非長期保證利率保惠也不會變動而是由保兒以及保駕金來進行彈性的調整主委一般 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2627.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
2640.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
投保的觀念多半是高保惠高保兒那現在保惠不變動保兒卻可能發生彈性的調整那請問到底有哪些條件可以讓 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
2641.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
2661.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
保兒調低或是調高其次保兒如果發生彈性的調整是否可能會讓保單的道德危險機率提升委員其實問了一個非常深入的問題也是非常複雜的問題其實剛才提到媒體有報導就是說我們已經拍完其實並沒有這只是我們請那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
2664.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
2687.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
我們的周邊單位保發中心進行研議我想剛才委員提到強化壽險業的體質過去我們比較著重是在所謂的淨值面就是增資其實未來強化體質它有三個面向可以來進行一個是資產面就剛才講把資產負債的配置把它改變再來第二個就是負債面負債面就是可以降低它的負債成本 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
2688.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
2712.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
降低負債成本降低資產的成本那自然也降低了淨值的壓力所以我想這部分我們會三方來進行剛剛提到就是說其實過去售險業長期在沒有考量到能力的情況之下做了非常多過度的保證導致整個成本轉嫁給社會我覺得這是不公平的所以我想在這部分未來會朝這個方向來做一個研議 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
2713.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
2725.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
主委因為保護所繳的保惠總額在扣除保險工資或行政支出後即為保單價值的準備金那現在保惠不變動如果是 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
2728.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
2751.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
會長期的保證利率保單保價金到底是調高還是調低的趨勢因為保價金彈性調整的結果是不是也會和實務上互稅發生連動的影響請主委您做一個參數說明我簡單說明一下因為就是剛剛委員提到都是沒有定案還沒有定案只是在討論中的東西我想今天來講就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
2752.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
2773.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
我們今天為了確保對這個所謂的消費者這個是公平的因為比如說剛剛委員提到保駕金比如說我的利率在往上升的時候其實坦白講這個時候是對消費者是比較不利的但是利率往下降是對保險公司比較不利的未來把它改成中性以後其上就是未來大家都不用承擔 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
2774.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
2793.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
這個利率上的風險包括客戶也不需要承擔就是有時候利率往下降的時候那可能費用或是保額或是其他的方式會做調整但是現在利率往上升的時候你就要有利於消費者的方向我想這是一個公平的機制所以說金管會應該站在一個公平正義客觀的角度上來要求好不好當然當然是謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
2800.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
2805.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
謝謝林德福委員 主委請回我們現在接下來請吳秉瑞委員質詢主席 麻煩請金網會彭主委請彭主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
2820.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
2832.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
委員早安主委早這個經濟學人雜誌前幾天一篇關於台灣跟美金之間的匯率被嚴重低估的這樣的報導 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
2834.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
2862.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
雖然馬上就被央行跟美國一起出來開記者會說明把這個東西給澄清了那從這邊引申而來就是跟剛剛前面的委員提到類似的問題但我用不同的問法現在我們國家目前的受險公司他在外國投資的金額總共是多少現在總共 目前剛剛提到委員剛才提到22兆左右22兆左右那因為這個在外國投資 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
2864.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
2893.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
所要花的這個避險的這個費用就是為了這個匯率的風險避險的費用大概是多少如果每年不一樣還有根據比如說台美的這個利差不同像今年的話有可能會逼近4000億就是說如果風險沒有發生我們這4000億的錢也就是花掉了就是說因為整個避險工具很貴的話就過去平均來講的話就是2000到3000億左右對啦我就意思說這個錢就是花掉了 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
2894.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
2921.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
就可能是產生資產的淨流出我的意思說因為我們是類似為了要規避風險所以我們才要買避險我今年就算風險沒有發生我這個錢也就花掉了如果風險沒有發生就是覺得每年花這個錢很可惜其中最釜底抽薪的方法就是不能增加台灣的投資管道 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
2923.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
2936.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
其實剛剛委員提到我剛才提過就是說假設要解決受險人的問題有三個面向一個就是資產面向資產面向裡面很重要就是把那個不匹配扭回來其實很重要就是加大對台幣的投資我想這是一個方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
2937.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
2953.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
對 你想想看我們22兆多在外國的投資假設你能夠多投資台灣5兆 6兆那就有相當的比例至少那一部分需要避險的金額就降低了嘛所以需要花出去的成本就會降低嘛真正釜底抽薪的是要讓台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
2955.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
2972.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
有好的資產或是好的方式可以投資那偏偏台灣的利率低那政府的公債又很久都沒有發行所以變成說這個投資的管道在台灣投資的管道越來越少你有沒有什麼好的想法可以讓台灣投資的管道可以增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
2972.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
2991.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
其實我也看到受請公司最近幾年的努力比如說他們第一個他們會自己去做一些比如說地上權或是一些不動產或是一些投資案的投資我想各位可以看到很多像比如說我們一些地區型的這些購物中心還有一些物流這些東西他們都在做 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
2992.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3013.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
你們經管會有給他規定你如果要做這個商業不動產的這個投資或是要怎麼樣他有一個固定的那個基礎利率然後再加上三碼是不是我如果沒有記錯的話我們最近的話是用均速的方式因為最近的那個利率波動比較大所以過去我們是鎖定的我們最近把它調整成就是一個幾年平均的一個對 因為這個會造成一個問題就是會隨著利率 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3018.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3040.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
的浮動那不是投資在保險公司的可是會隨著利率的浮動有的投資合法有的投資過去是可以現在變成不可以這個事實上這個政策上面是有一些思考的空間所以說剛剛跟文報告我們就因為也注意到這個問題我們很快的做出調整我想前一陣子如果文有注意到我們先把過去那個盯住一個定點的方式我們就把它調整成是一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3041.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3062.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
均屬這樣會考慮到其實就好像他可能一簽約可能簽約三年五年他不可能在利率上升的時候他突然說我要調高是不可能所以我們也注意到我們也也把他納入到我們監理的考量就是因為這個是一個環境的變動所以我們有調整過就我了解的個案上面變得很多比較大額的投資就要經過你們同意那個經過你們同意的過程中 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3063.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3077.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
有的時候諸多種考量都在裡面不見得是不正確但是就會讓這個申請人覺得說他們也會一個如果不順的時候也會一個懷疑說金管會的標準是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3077.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3106.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
不一致對每個公司不一致或是對每個個案不一致會有這樣子的疑問產生嗎其實主要是說我想最近會比較大的爭議就是有些對公建的認定比如它的比例的問題就像我們現在很多地方政府跟很多的做一個開發案有些開發案的時候因為它有些有公民的參與所以有些部分可能涉及到比如說過去我們都不樂見受協議投資在住宅這上面有些還有就是說它的 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3107.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3134.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
可能是一個政府主辦但是公件的比例比較低所以我們就會有一個考慮實際上我們最近也有做一些明確的規定讓他們好遵循主委我是這樣想我們對保險公司如果要讓整個市場健全你要想方設法讓台灣可以投資的範圍而且當然這個投資是必須是有足夠性的保障所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3135.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3159.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
像之前提出說要對公共建設的投資可以來參與那對有一些參與但是也是冒了風險譬如說你以前說綠能可以投資那現在綠能的環境變得這麼差那已經投資進去了他會覺得說這我要怎麼辦所以我們先撇開這個不講我認為金管會不是只有正在管理 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3161.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3188.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
你可能要想方設法跟政府部門溝通哪一些範圍是你認為可以增加投資標的其實委員剛才講沒錯其實我跟委員報告我在這方面其實跟很多的部會有那個部長都做過很多溝通其實都蠻正面只是說有些是有法令的障礙但我們都在突破中這是我們正在努力的方向包括像比如說國發會的兆元投資計畫裡面除了這裡面整體來講其實我們在已經的不斷的跟比如說 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3190.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3211.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
各個部會有可能列為可以國人可以投資的標的部分我們持續在努力中這是絕對是我們努力的方向就剛剛委員提到就是說其實國內的投資呢確實有它比如說比較多的障礙比如報酬率的問題這是一個很明顯的所以我剛才講說要解決這個投資工序除了我們的資產面的報酬率很重要就是我們的受險公司的負債成本 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3212.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3239.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
如果能夠降低的話那自然他投資的能力就加強這也是我們努力的方向那這要看他的保單裡面他將來的支付要支付的金額的估算那是不是符合實際我舉一個例子我覺得其實有時候想法靈活就有可能可以改變譬如說天然氣的運輸船LND他一艘新造大概是3億美金那台灣其實需要這個船隊 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3240.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3267.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
那問題是過去我們都是叫賣方運來給我們我們把運價加記在裡面那台灣的買家只有中油跟台電都是台灣的公司我們如果這個中油跟台電現在以他的資本額來講他們現在沒有辦法出得起這麼一下子出得起這麼大條錢因為你建這個船隊可能不是一條兩條喔可能要十幾二十條以上那這個對台灣的國家安全也很重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3269.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3295.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
這個議題有人在談你能不能把它結合在一起我舉個例子我們授權公司這麼多的錢如果這個運輸的權利東友跟台電願意釋放出來其實這個保險公司可以跟他們買債券買這個東西然後來做船隊然後這個只是把它原來要付給外國船隊的運輸費用付給這個台灣自己建立的這個船隊那這個光是這個投資至少也可以出現幾千億的台幣的這個金額 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3297.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3320.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
對 其實委員提到他很重要受請公司適合投資就是穩定長期固定報酬是很適合他那剛剛提到其實我們在那個那個跟財政部跟國化建的平台我們每次定期都有跟我們的業者諮詢說你有沒有什麼投資的標的像剛剛委員提到那個我覺得那個想法的部分我們也會帶回去請他們去評估一下這個可能的投資性另外一點就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3321.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3333.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
有沒有什麼方法可以替代掉這個要去買這個避險的這個錢我舉個例子我4000億花出去那風險沒有發生當然我們不希望風險發生嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3335.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3362.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
那錢就花掉了每一年兩千億三千億四千億這樣在花其實那個成本很高我如果一部分避險還是繼續但是一部分因為你知道嗎那個風險的那個極端值你買都是買到極端值出現嘛但是那個極端值出現的機率相對是越來越小的那小的風險的那一部分可能要付那有的東西是不是可以拿來充實這些保險公司的資本不用這樣花出去啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3363.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3389.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
確實沒有錯我們剛才提到就是說我剛才在委員答詢的時候我也提到就是說其實我們更關切的是說你怎麼樣強化未來的抵禦匯率風險的能力所以剛才講強制提撥跟止撥跟增資都是我們未來在整個做匯率改革的一個非常重要的相關的措施其實一個最大的問題就是這個避險的錢萬一發生了風險的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3392.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3400.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
你認為你有沒有估算過那個金額會有多大其實我們有做過各種的前進我就舉個例子今年4000億到底是買到多大的保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3401.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3428.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
其實這個東西就是我們大概剛才講我們的避險比例20就是大概15兆裡面大概六成左右剛才提到差不多六成那等於說我們大概可以算得出來大概基本上我記得在前幾次會議的時候我也跟大家報告說大概一塊錢大概就是2000億左右的波動對他的損益那其實上這個剛剛就可以推估出來大概多少的部位他們是在做避險 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3429.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3444.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
是啦那我現在我剛剛的問題對不起我追問一下就把它問清楚我舉個例子我們今年花了4000億如果像經濟學人說的應該台幣兌美金當然他是亂講我們不相信他說應該1比20那真的發生了1比20 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3446.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3467.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
這4000億的花出去前買到的這個保障的這個匯率的這個損失有辦法完全填補嗎這很可惜沒有沒有嘛那所以我的意思是說要填補多少多少比例可以去填補就是那個牽涉到匯率有多快到達剛才講那個期間因為我們現在的避險工具都是短期的避險工具所以只要一年內 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3469.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3485.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
這一年為了怕匯率的變動所以今年就要花4000億的錢因為我們的避險工具沒有提供長期所以它必須要一直轉都是短期短期有點像以短之長的概念它其實並沒有真正的能夠解決未來假設結構性的 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3488.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3509.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
所以你想想看這個實在是很可惜台灣每一年花了這麼多的錢這都花掉了用什麼方法既可以讓這些保險公司這個匯率的變動的時候他還是能夠撐得住又不用花這麼大的成本各式各樣的方法應該要趕快這也是我們覺得說從整個金融安定長遠的角度必須要 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3510.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3521.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
要做也要立刻做調整體質的這些事情我們會全力來做好 那是釜底抽薪還是讓台灣的投資機會能夠增加是的這就不用有避險的問題了嘛是的好 謝謝好 謝謝吳秉瑞委員主委請回好 接下來請賴思寶委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3537.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3542.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
謝謝主席以及各位先進有請今晚會的彭主委好 請彭主委委員長好主委早那麼我看這個數字今年金融業在前10個月它的獲利超過8400億獲利相當的亮眼它的獲利今年會不會上看上照會不會如果你處一處上照 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3568.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3595.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
今年的話因為可能幾個三頁裡面可能銀行還是持續表現的結局可能會創下今年的新高今年可能會創下新高但是因為受險業受到今年四五月的衝擊其實這樣會減少相對的比例也比較小受險相對比例小但是過去大概是631吧去年破兆嘛去年剛好破兆就是大概631這樣一個比例所以今年也是破兆應該沒問題今年我覺得有點吃緊因為這個比如受險業的獲利沒有那麼好 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3596.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3623.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
但今年會破照嗎不確定 但是銀行今年應該我們可以預期就是今年的獲利會比今年還好銀行很亮喔 今年那在這樣子金融業這麼好的情況之下你站在金管會 你看它宗旨一方面監管 二方面希望你們手上的工具促進金融業能夠發展所以這個員工非常重要你要不要公開喊話一下這個金工業給員工加薪 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3624.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
3647.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
其實我跟委員報告就是我們在其實我們從今年開始應該講我們就不斷的跟金融業宣導所謂金融大回饋計畫其實在我們在新申請新業務的時候我們都會這個柔性的請他說你未來這個新業務的成果要如何回饋他們開始就是已在做我們有系統的在做這件事情當然我們講回饋包括三個對象第一個叫做基層員工 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
3648.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
3664.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
一定要先針對你的基層員工進行福利的增加再來就是對你的客戶再來對社會大眾這我們會提出具體的金融大回饋計畫來促進這件事情這個確實是金融業未來會成為這麼重要的產業你就跟我講給我簡單答案你要不要跟金融業喊話給員工加薪就問這個事情其實這個我們已經在很多場合跟他們呼籲過現在要不要再喊話一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
3676.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
3682.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
我剛才講說其實我們希望基層會支持我們金融大回饋計畫裡面所以要給員工加薪我要問你這個啦這股啦這樣啦對 我們支持他們對基層的員工鼓勵啦 希望啦 可以吧可以可以喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
3691.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
3699.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
那上市櫃公司也比較辦理因為今年號稱華佔獨華佔啦GDP成長率有時候到7%啦所以今年會到7%華佔獨華佔上市櫃公司你要不要也呼籲一下給員工加薪啊其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
3708.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
3726.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
也是感謝委員我們前一陣子很支持我們的政交法已經調了就今年必須要增加那個就是在章程裡面要提撥一定的比例為基層員工調整福利我想這已經都幾乎所有的上市規公司都已經調整了他的章程了再來就是我們對今年的上市規公司的條件 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
3727.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
3740.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
他來申請上市的條件就要求比如說他的那個對於基層員工的薪資一定要達到一定的高水位才可以來做我想這個我們都希望由上市會公司來帶動我覺得另外問一個小問題也是很重要問題你們有推出一個什麼加薪ETF有沒有有那個所謂的加薪指數對嘛 可是賣得不好啊那個不太有人要買這個啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
3753.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
3770.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
你有沒有去研究一下為什麼你加薪ETF 加薪100 加薪什麼的都嘣嘣嘣這個問題人家覺得不怎麼樣你要不要檢討一下什麼原因其實各位委員也有注意到我注意到了對 我知道因為這部分我們是在做一個嘗試 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
3772.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
3792.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
資訊揭露對於這個善盡企業社會責任的企業我們給予鼓勵所以把它編一個嘉興的指數可是華人問津不會 就像我們在ESG的基金的過去我們也看到很多實證的研究也看到說它確實在因為投資人看的除了我們社會責任的善盡以外更重要是它的獲利你要多宣導宣導是 我們會宣導這個給嘉興的請鼓勵投資人多買ETF |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
3800.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
3802.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
沒有 這個委員的方向我們都支持來 第二個新北跟桃園 UBIKE從明年開始沒有投保不能夠騎 UBIKE這個民眾必須完成免費的投保它保費是市政府出這裡面有第三責任險 傷害險等等的保險局怎麼看這個事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
3823.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
3836.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
我想這是一個政策保險這不是商業保險這就取決於各地方政府的政策我想保險公司是配合他們來做這些事情你們能夠鼓勵嗎因為這個老實講這個UBIKE你看那個每一次中小學那個放學的時候UBIKE跑來跑去的這個看了都很危險而且發生的這個UBIKE的這個車禍也是 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
3849.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
3873.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
也是常見的啦其實我們當然是支持這樣其實我們從一個推廣風險管理的概念的話我們絕對支持各地方政府推廣這些事情那我們就是我們的角色就希望站在我們的業者能夠盡量來協助這件事情讓他能夠完成各個地方政府想要推動這個政策的目標我想這個部分如果各個地方政府需要我們來配合的地方我們的保險局一定會督促我們的業者來配合這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
3874.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
3895.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
你要不要去推一下 請那個產險公司也幫忙推一下說鼓勵各縣市因為UPAC這個太方便了這個各縣市你們也push一下這我們可以來努力你們來努力一下雖然這個是新北跟桃園但是我覺得金管會的角色可以樂見其神推廣到所有的 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
3898.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
3923.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
各個縣市然後我們看另外一題那個聖石今夜襲軍案這個昨天好像這個被搜索被什麼的那這裡面他就因為用保障5%到12%而且有總統去站台高官去站台這個跟今天的題目有點關係我就請教一下這個案子你怎麼看 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
3925.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
3943.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
我想剛剛提到就是假設以這個涉及到非法吸金地下匯兌這是我們銀行法上的重罪我剛剛已經提過了這是為什麼這兩個是特許業務非法吸金非特許行業不得吸收存款不得辦理匯兌我想這是很清楚所以像 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
3944.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
3967.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
今天的那個提案我們也提到就是說如果說把那個提高刑度那部分改成失職所得這部分我們是就不支持啦所以我們就還是維持原來的這個條文那當然對於任何吸金這個非法吸金我們都一定是站在一個你站不站成對非法吸金跟地下會對一起提高薪資 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
3968.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
3990.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
對 我想對於打擊犯罪如果有效的方法我們都支持不過這個還牽涉到比如說我們的司法刑度的量刑要跟其他的部會一起要一致性的考量這個要不要請法務部的廖參事上來表達一點意見我們如果提高刑度會不會有什麼你們法律上的一些漢格的地方有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
3993.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4015.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
你要不要講一下 表示一下如果非法吸金跟地下會一起提高薪資你們的態度怎麼樣跟委員說明一下這是兩個不同的形態吸金的部分打擊吸金本來就是我們的重點工作不過現在談法律規定刑度的一個均衡性的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4016.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4037.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
那現在吸金的部分目前依照銀行法的規定29條之一的規定它是以吸收存款跟吸收存款的性質相近所以它是以吸收存款論你回答問題因為我時間快到了就是你贊不贊成這兩個都要一起提高薪資就這樣子了贊不贊成 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4040.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4056.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
非法吸金的我們的看法是說他要跟29條之一的收受存款的性質相近應該是刑度要相當啦就是說所以你保留就對了啦就是說跟29條之一的刑度相當 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4059.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4066.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
那地下會對現在的刑度也是跟29條之一是一樣的所以你都保留就變這樣就是說在整個金融管理政策上以現在的詐欺案啊人民永遠都痛啊而且逃不回來啊你們應該要贊成提高刑責啦老實講那個金光會的本主委以現在的時空啊這個詐欺老是越打越詐啊這個情況之下 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4087.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4092.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
應該要贊成 最後一個問題講到穩定幣台灣版的穩定幣上路沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4101.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4128.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
當然還沒有因為我們的法制還在目前你們第一階段也就開放銀行機構才可以發行穩定費用我們初步跟央行的共識是說因為我們剛開始基於這個比如說監理上的穩定我們會從因為其實我們的草案母法草案裡面是沒有限制只有金融機構我們是參考MECA的規定但是我們初步階段基於一個風險管理的角度我們會先由金融機構先 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4128.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4154.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
你能不能給我們一個時間表比如說半年內或者三個月以後看到台版的穩定幣正式上路如果說因為我們現在一切順利一切順利的話像我們今年大概因為現在剛好正在比如說這個禮拜也會進行那個所謂的穩定幣在行政院政務委員主持的審查會我想已經第三次審查應該大家的共識度應該很高假設 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4156.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4181.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
這個會期能夠送進立法院的話就是還要通過行政院院會嘛送進立法院的時候排進議程的話如果有可能在下個會期通過的話我們站在一些執法公佈的話最快是大概半年內要把它做完的話那我覺得最快最快可能要到下半年才有可能法制作業完成所以大概最快可以期待明年的6月7月左右可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4182.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4203.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
台版的穩定幣這是什麼這要看就是下個會期是什麼時候對 就是順利嘛我說一切如果順利嘛對 就是因為就是等於說它出來等於說要立法通過執法公佈差不多要最晚半年之內公佈公佈完當然就可以開始所以到明年7月左右對 所以說這樣預期的話就是最快最快明年有可能完成立法就有可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4203.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4208.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
明年7月因為我跟你講一個 我跟你講一個比如說我現在列出來當然這個不是穩定幣你看USDT 36天的年收益利率6%USDT 90天的9%一出來賣得很好 一出來賣得很好 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4225.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4250.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
這個當然這個穩定幣照理講是沒有利息的它是屬於衍生性商品以這個來講的話其實這個需求已經在哪裡了市場在哪裡了我覺得我們的腳步可以快一點了我們其實站在我們行政機關的話我們就是很穩健的在推動因為這個我們儘管會能做我們現在都做了但其他部分就要社會共識還有就是各個部會還有就是我們未來大院的審查謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4253.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4258.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
好 謝謝賴司保委員接下來請郭國文委員質詢謝謝主席 有請彭主委好 請彭主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4273.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4291.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
委員長早安主委好主委我想今天主題是非法吸金跟地下匯兌但是地下匯兌的需求有可能是洗錢也有可能是需要真的要匯兌但是最主要是源頭啊這個不夠那產生了地下匯兌的狀況而導致了犯罪行為的產生你去看看 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4292.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4314.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
我們在這個沙盒實驗成功的這個外企移工的部分會對的成長是你看逐年成長節節上升不論是金額跟客戶數但是對象還只限移工上次我舊教育您的部分沙盒實驗成功應該讓國人也有可以享有小額會對的這個可能性但是你們說要回去做一個評估 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4315.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4338.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
我是今天再提出一個新的看法是可以用漸進式的方式也就是說我們現階段除了移工之外還有外籍生 還有外籍配偶那以及外籍的高階人才都是我們引進而且政策上我們也是持續在擴大這種擴大的情況底下我想請問一下主委有沒有可能漸進式然後到國人這種方式然後用一個月的方式來做評估看看來減少地下會對的可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4338.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4358.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
其實評估沒有問題我想這部分本來就該做因為我剛才講這是小額就是說這一部分的匯兌就是合法匯兌因為我們是立法來約束的這部分都是合法的都是有受高度監管方向相如果你如果同意的話能不能用一個月的方式如何去漸進的擴大減少這種地下匯兌的可能造成 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4358.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4376.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
對 我們就來研議一下這個因為現在執行已經有一定的經驗了嘛那一個月嘛 好不好可以一個月我們提報告給好 謝謝 謝謝主委那接下來呢最近其實討論度非常高就是有關於受險業的部分那受險業我們一直持續的寬容然後我們非常的體貼的政策逐漸的出爐 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4377.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4399.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
最近有關於匯率會計變革的方案當中壽險公會其實已經提出四個提案一個是屬於AC項目的這個部分債券投資部分的一個攤銷的評價第二個部分是採取10年的匯率的均價這個部分是最前提到的第三是地眼資產第四是匯率的覆蓋法 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4400.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4425.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
這公共提出這四個當中討論度比較高的話看起來是一跟四的這個部分但是顯然之前提匯兌的這個部分是一個平均的年期把它拉長的情況底下它還是會隱藏一個風險也就是說當匯率劇烈變化的時候譬如講當初受到這個華盛頓管管協議所造成的影響從40斗降到25%的時候這不是不可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4425.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4441.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
因為一般的說法現階段的這個川普他所發起的關稅戰在明年5月的時候鮑威爾如果卸任之後可能會發起所謂的匯率戰但是隱藏了這種風險的情況底下單純的把時間拉長或許還是有它的風險的存在 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4441.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4470.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
但是拉長的結果是不是能夠解決這個問題我想各方還有爭議我想就較於主委這部分工會提出的這四個方案當中會不會還有金管會的版本有第五個方案或者這四個方案當中您認為哪一個是比較適合哪一個比較符合現狀其實跟委員報告就是因為工會他是單純從業界的角度提出他們的這個看法我想這個就是他代表工會的立場 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4471.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4492.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
那我想我們最近也廣泛的徵詢學界還有會計師界還有快言基金會這個權威機構的一些的意見他們給我們的很多非常寶貴更全面的意見有幾個重點就是說怎麼樣能夠真實的反映這個受選一的經營模式是一個最核心這個大家的共識就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4493.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4518.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
現行而且我們從會計學界來看的話他們有個共識就是說現行的IAS21對於這些比如說我們以持有到期AC攤銷的債券本身如果一個是用歷史成本評價一個是用現實估計這就違反了會計最基本到底是歷史成本還是現實估計的概念所以他認為現行的制度大家有個共識是不合理而且不符合我們的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4519.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4539.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
至於剛才就接下來這個不合理以後或不對的時候該用什麼方式來討論剛剛委員有提到就是說我綜合學界他們的看法還有就是會計世界大家比較大的共識還是比較傾向AC那個攤銷的方式讓它所謂的評價的基礎能夠變成一致但這個細節的部分也就是方案一 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4539.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4563.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
就是AC的部分的債券投資的部分比較占比比較高剛剛委員提到說我們有沒有可能其他的看法這個就是要因為是公會是我剛才講是站在他的立場我們會再跟學界還有快原基金會這邊再做一些討論細節的部分我想這個觀念上就是說你該揭露都要揭露只是說要不要進損益表多少這個才能完成的就是完全的允當表達真實經營的模式 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4565.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4588.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
這是我們所要探討的其實公會雖然是公會提出來但是四個意見當中也有學界的呼聲以第一個方案來說鄭定旺鄭教授就是滿認同第一方案的以前我們看會計我們在念會計學的時候幾乎都是鄭定旺老師的書所以說現在還是有一個比較大的呼聲依照剛剛主委的回答當中也可以顯現出來是第一個的可能性是獲得比較多專業團體還有公會團體的認同 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4591.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4617.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
好 那另外一個部分其實就最近來說的話我們金管會所提出來的有關於這個壽險體質的一個這個變革的措施當中不論是會計接軌的這個IFR 17的在地化或過渡化的一個寬容措施也好或者這個匯率的會計的變革剛剛我們提到的部分也好甚至有討論到實質支付的漲價制度也好以至於非常期的保證利率的制度也好這些看起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4619.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4645.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
都是對業界非常的這個優しい非常的體貼也就是說非常的寬容也就是說都偏向於產業面但是本席要提醒這個主委另外一個部分我們除了對產業寬容之外我們更應該考慮到終極的目標要如何讓保護受益也就是說現階段的整個受險的過程當中您一直強調的也就是過度曝險 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
4649.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
4672.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
过度避险过度避险的原因就来自于过度曝险过度曝险的原因是来自于过度保障过度保障的原因是他想要过度吸金嘛也就是说过度这个避险是尾端的事情前头就是保险业者当初失衡的心态想要过度吸金而过度保障因此过度曝险然后才有过度避险的问题不是吗 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
4673.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
4689.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
对 结构上的原因在这边那您应该在考虑到末端的部分会计准则做一个定义上的调整的过程当中应该思考的它源头的这一个部分要怎么做调整源头的部分传统的受险的比例只占54%投资保险的部分还是39% |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
4691.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
4715.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
結果你讓它整個風險係數降低之後會不會讓它有恃無恐固態復發更加往海外投資 對不對主委 你要思考清楚當你這邊放的時候這邊有沒有可能收收跟放有沒有同時進行才能徹底改變它的體質其實謝謝委員的關心我想剛才提到我有兩點稍微簡單說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
4717.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
4740.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
我們剛才講是寬容市場這樣我們從來都不認為這是所謂的因為我們是個制度的建立者我們是建立一個合理的制度剛才講譬如說剛剛匯率的問題就是你可以去問財務學者就知道他們現在避險叫做Overhatch不是對的事情我們把它合理化而不是把它寬容化這是重新定義化再來譬如說剛才講譬如說我們的接軌 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
4744.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
4759.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
ICS接軌如果我們仔細研究的話新的制度非常的高那我們只是用時間換取空間讓它往上走其實也不是寬容至少這四分來說對於業界基本而言相對而言是利多 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
4759.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
4787.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
我意思是说你如何让多少的保护能够相对有利多的状况也就是说他目前为止还是投资型的占了高39%医疗型才4%而已我意思说站在一个保险业的一个真正的社会责任来说他如何用商保来辅助健保应该是保险业应该做的事情对不对可是现实上我们看得到的长照险也好 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
4788.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
4806.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
或者是失智險 失能險也好比例非常之低 效果非常有限保障非常之少這應該在這個過程當中我們在釋放出來這政策調整的利多過程當中你要如何落實保護的權益能夠提升嗎這一點其實委員剛才提到我剛才講說我們對於受險業體質強健的要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
4812.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
4834.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
增加消費者的保護跟他的福利是不衝突的我想這件事情剛委員的提點我們會來努力是不衝突啊但是你要怎麼收怎麼放啊你不能這麼放了之後你將來收不回來我就講嘛你因為之所以過度那個避險的原因就是過度負險嘛你剛剛也回答其他委員說高達六成在海外投資居多嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
4835.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
4850.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
現階段我們想方設法就是要把海外的資金吸引回來進行公共投資然後另外一部分呢我們也用這種方式如果說你把它完全把它去風險化或降低風險化的情況底下會不會減少他們吸引回來的一個可能性二來呢 是不是他們過度的吸金的結果也會造成過度push的這個結構性的改變這個部分也要我們去面對的主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
4863.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
4880.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
這個階段當中你有沒有可能要求這個海外投資或者是包括這個投資的項目保險的項目當中商業保險的部分把它做一個總額的管控把它一個降低另外保險的這個醫療險的部分要求一個提高 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
4881.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
4910.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
有沒有可能做這樣的政策要求其實這就是我們政策但是我們不會用限制我們會用其他的方式來去扭轉這個我在很多場合已經講過了就是要解決受險業的問題它是個慢性病必須要長期來調整對 但是主委主委你的政策目標也要揭示嘛你要說你是用鼓勵的方式你不用限制可是你現階段大家沒有看到你這個部分大家社會面所期待的保護所期待的醫療保險現階段跟社會市場需求落差 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
4910.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
4935.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
非常之大這個主要是剛才講說當然委員您剛才看到那個保費這個因為它是不同等比比如說很多的我們傳統型它是完全以理財投資為目的但看保費是不準的因為我們的醫療險都是紮紮實實的保費就跟你看意外險的保費從保費來看它其實保障額度很大但保費相對是比較少這樣比是看不出來我想說主要是我們要營造一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
4936.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
4959.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
公平的經營環境讓我們的商業保險能夠進入到這個領域來能夠跟我們的健保能夠相輔相成這件事情是我們要來做的然後你這個部分有沒有可能同時進行在這個部分同時要求做一個體質的改善然後把它列為共同的政策目標我相信這會比較符合社會的期待 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
4960.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
4982.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
我們會朝這個我們現在就在做了就是已經在做這件事情我想委員的提點我們都會麻煩做更明顯一點好不好可以 更明顯一點這樣給他多一點壓力不要只是他看到那個蘿蔔沒有想到後面可能會有棒子其實我們棒子蘿蔔都有對 一併接入好不好主委 是的 謝謝好 謝謝郭國文委員接下來請賴會員委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
4998.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5023.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
謝謝主席有請金管會潘主委還有銀行局銅局長好 銀行局銅局長委員早安是 主委早安主委針對今天銀行法第125條的修正草案基本上就是現行的法案將惡性的一個吸金跟地下匯兌混在同一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5024.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5045.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
處罰上面導致就是說在司法上的法官在限時的案例上我們常常覺得就是說地下會隊的行為罪不至於而輕判讓真正年代的就是侵吞民眾的血汗錢的這些吸金的詐騙集團難以獲得應有的重處所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5051.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5077.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
我不知道就是說主委站在今天的一個修法裡頭你看到了就是說蔡議委員還是牛喜廷委員他們兩個其實是有截然不同的一個思維一個是就是他是把兩個那個地下會隊跟那個惡性細菌是擺在一塊的同一個法條上面的一個是把它就是分開的我覺得我想聽聽你的一個看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5077.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5104.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
是 我剛才在書面報告跟口頭報告也就說明了其實我們銀行法本來就對違法匯兌跟違法吸金有雙層次的處罰一個就是在一定金額以下的時候是三年 十年以下然後超過一億以上的時候是七年以上我想這個本來就是刑度這個刑期上已經就是說你的危害重大的我就重大 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5104.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5126.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
這次委員的提案裡面是把對於1億以上改成實質所得這也是我們最近我們也是比較擔心像比如我們現在打詐專法裡面很多車手他說我去領一些錢我只是拿點手續費所以那個金額就比較小所以這次我們要把它調整成是以犯罪所得而不是以你的實質所得 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5127.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5150.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
那我想說這個就是我們在包括銀行法這個在司法的見解上已經非常明確了就是他還是以總額來看所以這是我們會建議說還是維持現有的方式剛剛有委員關心就是說那假設我們詐騙很嚴重是否該把那個7年以上或者怎麼再把它提高這個社會可以討論剛剛我們其實法務部代表有提到就是這要跟所有的刑度來做一個橫頻的考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5151.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5164.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
好 卓偉 我們看到你的態度就是說另外再有一個議題就是說每一天的股市的交易量已經都是接近甚至就是說常常就是快要接近5000億的當日這個金融內控有沒有失靈 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5171.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5198.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
那個開戶的一個瑕疵跟人頭的一個代鈔這些問題其實我們看到了就是說因為我們有很多父母是要幫孩子結稅所以他幫孩子開戶投資ETF還是說這個我們納稱他就是廣稱他是兒童股民那目前就有27萬戶這個是兒童股民那公然的人頭戶代鈔在金管會 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5198.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5218.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
的原理這個是不是一個正常嗎這個牽涉到就是前陣子大家也熱議就是說未成年開戶這部分我想我簡短的請銀行局跟我們政經局局長給委員做一個簡單的回覆好 謝謝好 報告委員那個未成年開戶這個是回歸到民法上面的規定不管是限制行為能力還是無行為能力 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5218.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5235.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
我們銀行在辦理開戶的時候都會依照民法相關的規定去徵提他的這個法定代理人相關的資料那至於開戶之後相關帳戶的金流就是回歸到一般的管控程序不管是日常的強化EDD的這個程序銀行都還是要照做 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5236.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5255.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
好 謝謝局長我想好 OK 可以了那我還是回來請教主委主委我想銀行審查是不是有漏洞我們用20年前喬治馬利卡這一個事件造成了重大的一個金融的一個議題那相對的就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5257.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5279.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
現有的這些金融機構他發行的信用卡可是有效的卡數我們可以看得到就是說大概集中在五成 六成甚至還有第四成以下那這樣子的一個狀況那我今天要跟你探討的就是說這個銀行的一個開戶有沒有一些什麼樣的一個缺失呢那是不是會過寬過鬆還是過嚴呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5283.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5297.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
這個在後面後面我們再來提到就是說這個一些就是警示戶的一個問題那我用最新的一個開戶審查的一個指引裡頭來跟那個主委做一個探討就是說我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5298.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5323.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
前前後後就是說要拿到一張金融卡它可能就是說初次一個開卡那初次的一個就是辦卡的一個程序裡頭它一般戶那個時間建議是抓保守的一個小時我想如果是一個小時的話沒有人要跟你開戶了這個是有點我們助理是寫的因為他們年輕人他們認為就是說要重演 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5325.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5333.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
那事實上就是說整個證件跟查詢跟填寫這個申請書還有零零種種就是說刷證件還有拍照還有就是說金融卡的一個申請那這裡頭你認為這樣子的開戶審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5344.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5357.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
這個合理嗎有沒有需要改進的地方我問我個人的話待會可以請銀行局長跟我們簡單回覆其實我們自從我們上次因為那個反洗錢的規定以後我們走國際的標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5359.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5378.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
這很多的流程不是銀行這邊的資料他必須做很多的查證所以很多人他們也做好的宣導就是說其實你真的要開戶的時候確實是需要這麼久的一個時間而且他們也都採用預約的方式盡量減少我們客戶的等待時間我想現在實務這樣做我想這個必要性我請銀行局長簡單回覆一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5379.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5405.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
局長 這有很多的規定沒有執行還是就是在執行的過程裡頭有很多的瑕疵這一個是不是應該我們需要改善的是 各位委員包括在開戶的過程裡面銀行都會訂相關的規定沒有錯但最主要的精神還是回歸到RBA就是說他會看看客戶自己本身的風險屬性會施以不同的徵信調查結果舉一個例子來講如果在開戶的過程當中他是新轉戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5406.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5421.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
那可能這個整個開戶的程序就會很很便捷因為本身公司那需要用到一個小時嗎如果是新轉戶的話應該是不用因為他本身就已經公司就已經有跟銀行往來那他拿出這個資源完全就是一個新的呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5422.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5450.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
如果是一個新的話在銀行現在的納客政策裡面他會去做分層的一個管理比方說他有沒有地緣性他是不是就在附近的戶籍或者是他是學生背景等等他會依照客戶不同的屬性施予不同的一個徵信調查的結果但重點還是在於當他變成是銀行的客戶之後他在日常的作業當中怎麼去強化比方說像金流異常這個時候他就必須要啟動相關強化的審查程序 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5451.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5473.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
所以你認為就是說我們整個開戶的審查其實基本上是真的是落實的而不是說家住在就是說有一些是家住在這個開戶人的一個身上有一些就是說因為我們為了要衝這個那個業務量我們要衝這個數字結果我們把它清放了所以你認為是四平八穩 沒有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5474.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5496.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
目前來講法規有但執行面我不敢講說百分之百所有的行員他都有去落實這個也就是為什麼我們要透過經檢跟三道防線來去督導的一個制度好 那就是針對著最近這個一萬塊普花現金一萬塊衍生出來很多的一個禁止戶跟警示戶的這一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5497.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5519.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
那這個卡來卡去的時候那有很多管制的措施到底是有銀行裡頭就是說他開了戶他一個月沒有用我們就把它取消掉有一些是六個月那這樣子多久沒有使用的一個管制措施當然就是說每一個銀行他的標準不一 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5520.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5544.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
那可是如果是禁止戶的話那萬一就是說禁止戶被鎖了變成警示戶的話那那個金管會你有講嘛你就說盡量要讓我們的國民趕快拿到這個現金一萬塊那你覺得這個禁止戶跟那個警示戶的一個問題到底出在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5545.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5567.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
其實剛剛委員提到淨紙戶跟警事戶應該是截然不同的概念因為警事戶是被有人去報警說這個帳戶用來詐騙有檢調單位通知銀行說這個把它凍結掉這是一個有犯罪疑義第三方的一個邪詐那個淨紙戶就是說他今天一個戶很久很久沒有動了對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5567.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5596.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
這件事情銀行做了一些的比如說輔助的管控措施這個並不是說你這個就完全怎麼樣警示賬戶的發動權不是在銀行是在於我們檢調單位檢檢調的單位的發動所以這個不太一樣我當然知道是不太一樣那就是說主委現在就是說因為這個禁止戶跟警示戶造成民怨非常地深所以我是不是要其實我希望的就是說這個到底有 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5598.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5623.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
有沒有其他的一個解決的方式像是線上的一個解鎖還是數位的一個確認不要每一次就是說你被造成了很大的一個明眼的時候就是說你隨時你被通知你是警示戶的時候還是就是說禁止戶的時候你都要再跑到銀行去然後拿著雙證件然後去解碼有沒有更好的一個服務方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5624.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5652.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
其實跟委員報告就上次因為我們在前一陣子的話有一兩家銀行他的所控產生社會上很多民怨我們就立刻就請他開始要做一些改善措施我想最近他們也大概都已經在落實做這個比如說他提供24小時的線上服務就是說怎麼用最簡便的方法去解控這些事情除非特別需要才到現場來這些部分我們都在精進中所以我們也看到所以我們在行政程序上我們一直在精簡 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5654.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5668.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
當然當然這部分我們會持續的要求因為這部分我們也會隨時關注這些民怨的反應我們會及時的跟銀行做那個及時的這些的這個所謂的監理的提醒跟管控 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5669.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
5697.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
好 那就是說我們其實對於這個就是對帳戶應該是有管制那我們也希望就是有管理有更方便的一個管理方式不會造成民怨這麼深是 我們也在全力的希望在打詐的這個強烈要求跟民怨之間降低民怨取得一個最好的平衡好 謝謝 謝謝委員謝謝賴委員 謝謝彭主委接下來有請林昭偉市民委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
5705.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
5717.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
好 謝謝主席我請彭主委有請彭主委委員早安主委早 主委我們剛爆發不久的太子集團的跨國洗錢案 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
5718.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
5742.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
我想請教主委是不是有查出那個主謀陳志利用境外公司在台設立OBU就是境外金融中心賬戶然後將這個賬款匯入天旭國巨尼爾公司來洗錢其實 有沒有這件事情其實跟我們報告他整個的那個金流是非常非常複雜那確實主要的資金都是從國外有查出這件事吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
5743.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
5761.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
他利用OBU的帳戶來匯入他的沒有 我想這些相關的資料他在台設立的虛擬的公司有沒有這回事應該這樣講就是說我想從媒體揭露的事實裡面確實他在台灣設了非常非常多的公司這事實那也透過一些我們OBU帳戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
5762.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
5782.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
對 他也有用OBU的帳戶但是很多的比如他就進到了這個比如說我們的這些公司他就按照這個境外資金透過各種的國家跟帳戶跟管道進到這邊我想這個大概都是這個在報紙上都有做一些揭露了設立OBU原來的目的是政府為了加強國際金融活動嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
5783.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
5807.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
建立区域性的金融中心以吸引国内外法人投资的一个金融单位因此也给予开立OBU的境外公司享有账户享有存款的利息免税资金进出不受外汇管制利率定价较新台币客户弹性具高密度高度的隐秘性 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
5808.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
5832.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
但是我們現在看到卻變成犯罪者的詐騙洗錢工具管道所以我想問的就是說由太子集團的案子我們可以很清楚的看到我們國內ABU存在著很高的一個制度性風險目前雖然有國際金融業務條例作為控管的一個法律依據 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
5833.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
5853.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
但顯然已經不足以遏止各種新式的詐騙與洗錢的手法所以請教主委關於OBU的管自衛避免器成為洗錢的一個管道目前法令的規定是否有需要重新審視調整的地方陳主委我跟你講我們這個案發以後我們有請我們銀行局這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
5855.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
5883.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
仔細的找各個相關的銀行來做探討我想請局長簡單報告一下他們討論的結果兩點 兩個重點委員剛剛有關切到OPU整個就是說在帳戶管控上的一個風險事實上我們在2018年接受APG第三輪評鑑的過程當中我們國家風險報告裡面就已經先界定OPU是相對來講是高風險所以當有這樣的界定之後我們金管會就採取一連串的 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
5883.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
5902.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
相關的措施要求銀行在針對OBU開戶跟開戶之後的相關審查進行了一系列的嚴控的一個措施那再至於太子集團這個個案的部分其實他開的這個開立的這個帳戶大部分都還是在國內境內的一個部分但針對境內的部分呢我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
5903.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
5922.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
先前已經有召開銀行請問一下我這樣問你好了因為時間的關係所以我們現在太子集團這個案子發生之後我們是否有去檢視OBU的金融機制存在有哪些漏洞會被這些犯罪集團利用來洗錢那你如何把這些漏洞把它補起來有沒有做這方面的一個檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
5923.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
5945.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
有 跟委員報告這個部分我們也會在這個月我們會再邀集銀行跟我們就是法務部的洗錢防支處大家一起過來開會就整個事件的過程當中銀行在相關的不管是申報或者是可依教育賬戶的一個偵測有沒有可以提升之處我們都有後續的一個好 OK好 希望你們要加強 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
5946.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
5963.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
就是我們面對這樣的跨境詐騙洗錢犯罪我們強化跨境金流的監理與OBU的透明度我覺得這是刻不容緩你們要馬上去做另外我們針對今天審查銀行法的修法 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
5964.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
5981.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
當然主要我們要區分說小額地下匯兌者與巨額吸金者的一個良形情況當然我們看到因為人民受害案件比較多的或者頻率比較高的 規模比較大的主要是對於這些吸金的一個情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
5983.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6001.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
我想考量我們金融犯罪太猖狂金融犯罪正在數位化 跨境化但監理的能力是否有嚴重落後所以我要詢問主委目前詐欺與吸金犯罪橫行金流偵查能力是否足夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6003.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6029.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
我想委員提到一個是否足夠我們當然是在持續在精進中所以我們銀行局檢察局人力我們在數位查核的部分我們也持續在建我們的團隊而且過去已經有開始運作也有很好的一些的主委如果是在犯罪地在境外的話我們有什麼措施可以來偵辦或者可以明確掌握這些抓狀的行為預防有更多受害者來上當 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6031.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6048.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
當然境外的部分我們也必須要透過國際的合作才有辦法這部分的話我們只能針對我們境內的金流的話主要還是以境內金流為主政府有沒有什麼設備或專業人才能有效掌握這些虛擬資產或是用非法吸金的一個洗錢管道 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6049.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6076.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
其實就是犯罪的手法不斷在精進我剛才跟委員也報告過其實我們不管我們在檢察局也開始建構一些數位查核的這個團隊跟能力過去我們也在很多地方也在做像比如說對於剛才講那個虛擬資產的部分我們也跟比如警大合作針對一些比如說一些科技的工具我們也都在應用中我想檢體機關確實沒有錯我們受限於人力跟預算的問題但是我們已經盡力在做這件事 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6078.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6106.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
都有盡力在做最後一個問題來請問今天的一個主題銀行法的修正關於銀行法第125條的規範實際上它有包含三種不同罪質的一個行為在一個條文內做一個相同的一個處罰其實吸金詐騙的規模它是等於它的犯罪所得我想這是無庸置疑的但是地下匯兌金額的規模跟它實際犯罪的所得落差極大 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6107.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6113.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
所以這兩個犯罪行為它的一個形態實際上是不同的所以這種 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6115.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6141.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
就是吸金行為我們看來他的犯罪的一個受害者眾多危害社會的程度可以說是非常大跟地下會對這些從事地下會對業者他實際的所得就沒有那麼多在一個刑法的考量之下所以我們是不是在這種不同的一個損害的一個程度以及他所得不一樣的情況之下用同樣的良心來處罰 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6143.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6162.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
是否有違反我們罪行相當的原則也違反比例的原則以及公平正義我先問主委你的意見再請法務部廖參事來回答我現在這個問題謝謝委員的指正當然在過去社會上有不同的見解我想我們在司法見解之下應該是統一的就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6164.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6177.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
某種程度假設我站在金管會的立場我們認為非法吸金當然危害跟非法地下匯兌應該是它都是非常非常嚴重的會影響到金融安定跟金融秩序的這樣一個行為 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6178.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6200.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
那如果說今天呢換成就是從原來的這個整個會對的金額來量刑的基礎換成是一個所謂手續費的話那其實某種程度在不管在社會氛圍還有在現在的犯罪形態的來看的話我們是覺得不太適合這個時候反正有鼓勵人家說這個來做這個東西那我這只要以那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6201.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6217.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
手續費就像我們最近看那個車手他們就說那我只是拿那個幾千塊啊但是對社會危害的整體而言對金融秩序的挑戰跟安定我想這個我們從金管會的角度我們還是比較支持司法的見解還有現在我們的條文的內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6217.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6234.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
好 那請法務部我想法務部是對法律的條例的解釋比較精準的一個主管機關所以對這樣一個良形不同的行為的態樣不同的所得的一個的情況之下做同樣的良形處罰這有沒有違反比例原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6235.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6260.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
是 委員好那地下會對在某一些個案上它的業者的不法所得可能會有高有低不過在銀行法29條第一項還有125條的規範目的從這個角度上來看它關注的不值業者的不法所得高低的問題它同時還包含了 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6261.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6282.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
維護整個國家金融特許管理甚至關係到洗錢房制還有外匯管制等等很多的金融面向的法益的保護所以簡單來講我們主要是政策上的考量而不去考量說刑法體系的一個刑法的精神 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6283.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6300.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
不是沒有考慮性就是我們政策考量認為說地下匯兌的行為它也是因為地下匯兌的行為影響整個未來我們就是說金融監管的一個秩序就是說地下匯兌的行為它的規範目的不只在好 我想時間的關係我再最後一問一下就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6301.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6329.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
银行法实际上这样规定就看起来好像违反法律的一个体系针对这种良心完全不一样犯罪形态所得也不一样的情况之下你硬要把它认为说刑度是相同看起来是违反罪行相当原则跟比例原则就形态上来看所以现在反而很多事物上就认为这个人如果他所得就没有那么多结果你判他那么重所以会以清心法中去判他更轻的一个刑度所以我从另外一个角度看 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6330.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6340.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
我們的洗錢防治法有沒有針對這種地下會的行為涉及洗錢的行為有另外的一個良心的就另外的規定的處罰規定 有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6343.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6364.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
各位委員報告洗錢防治它本身就是說地下會對它如果有涉及洗錢那當然它另外又觸犯到洗錢防治法上相關的這個刑責那地下會對如果沒有涉及到洗錢的所以我現在就是針對牛許廷委員他現在把這個地下會對這種 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6367.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6391.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
就是如果說涉及的金額超過一億以上就跟吸金金額超過一億以上加重的一個處罰的規定是不是這個就應該把它區隔開來如果洗錢防止法已經有相關的規定那你對這種地下匯兌的實際所得它要超過一億以上才給它這個加重要以實際作為要件你的看法是怎樣跟委員說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6393.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6420.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
觸犯洗錢罪跟單純的地下會對這是兩個不同的犯罪就是說經營地下會對它不當然就是會同時觸犯洗錢罪那如果有當然兩者都構成那如果它沒有構成洗錢但是單純只是從事地下會對業者就是回到刑法那個銀行法上的125條的規定來處罰 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6422.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6443.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
所以這兩者並沒有衝突所以你贊成這個修法我想請教你的意見作為我們未來討論的一個我們的定論所以你是贊成還不贊成我想聽聽你的意見目前委員的版本就站在我們刑罰的精神那個角度針對會隊的部分它是在125條第一項 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6446.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6473.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
去限縮它加重就是以億元的計算就以實際所得來計算對 它以實際所得來核算但是實際所得從立法說明上來看意思就是指業者的實際犯罪所得那這樣的話一般我們事務上不是也是要這樣算人家的犯罪所得嗎過去我是以在法律界我們覺得我們要罪行要不能違反它的比例原則還有罪行相當原則我既然賺這麼多錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6474.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6495.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
我沒有算到那麼疑義你硬要講說什麼這個我根本就想剛才主委講的詐欺當然是不容我們完全是不容許的但是我們在良心上面法官一定會有做不同的一個考量所以從良心的一個角度上面你的看法是怎麼樣跟委員報告就是說犯罪所的銀行法125條一項 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6498.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6504.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
所以這是政策的考量我是問你這是不是因為尊重主管機關的政策考量是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6505.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6534.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
就是說它在整個金融犯罪的立法設計上它各自不同類型它有一定刑度的均衡性那這個部分如果有某一部分是不是要差異化它的刑度要個別的差異化那這個涉及到整個金融管理政策的整體評論我們當然要尊重主管區分的意見我們尊重金管會的意見好 以上謝謝謝謝委員好 謝謝林召委 謝謝主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6551.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6572.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
接下來我們請鍾嘉賓委員質詢主席 在場的委員先進列席的政務機關上官員會長工作夥伴媒體記者女士先生有請我們金管會彭主委請彭主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6577.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6592.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
主委好我想今天我們在審銀行法主要是防止詐欺犯罪利用銀行儲存犯罪所得但簡單來講就是銀行法跟我們的資產的安全管理非常重要對不對是好 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6592.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6608.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
我先請教一下今天我特別在標題先問到銀行金融兵推納網工主柵房癱瘓後面再來講我們看一看今天新聞上才提到的國營設立分行難道只在好賺的地區嗎我們看到金管會鬆綁 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6610.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6629.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
讓國營開分行呢讓他可以再做一些效率上的整併跟提升是這樣嗎金管委員的目的是什麼是讓那些偏遠地區業務量照少的分行金融機構他可以把它整併可是這樣的話我們的普惠金融民眾的這些實體服務的需求怎麼去兼顧主委的看法怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6630.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6650.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
是 過去我們在銀行申請分行的過程當中一直把它當作一個重要的監理工具是所以我們定有一個標準就是說比如說你的ROE不到一定的比例是不可以來申請一家都不行但是比如說我們舉個簡單的例子因為現在很多的簡單講就是說讓銀行開設分行的更放寬可以它更 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
6651.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
6668.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
抑制於市場的需求設立更多的分行還是讓他可以把一些他認為比較服務性的業績不好的分行收掉到底目的是什麼原來的那個做法有產生一刀切的問題就比如說我們這樣切下去很有可能不同的銀行它的經營策略就會受到限制比如說 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
6669.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
6696.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
因為很多已經分行很多的銀行它可能數位化的關係它關掉很多的分行 是的但是對於一些在成長中或是它還有一些這個服務需要因為它受限於剛剛那個標準所以它不能增設它就都不能擴張不管在它的服務的提供跟未來成長性上它就是產生了一個限制所以你的目的是讓金融機構可以有更大的競爭能力去開設而不受到這些一道氣的規定我們就要看它你的合理性比如說但是它收掉分行怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
6698.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
6723.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
收掉分行當然我們也會看這要經過我們的同意所以我關心的是收掉的部分好 我們來往下看最近有一本小局書它這裡面提到的跟我們金融有關的它是說當緊急避難危機狀況來臨的時候你要把身分證 健保卡我可以理解連存摺的銀本都要有資本跟數位好奇怪另外也要求你要有一些現金跟零錢帶在身上為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
6724.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
6750.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
為什麼在緊急狀況的時候你還要去保留你這個金融機構存摺的銀本或紙本或者數位我想這是從馬太安事件裡面我們就看到了這樣的一個情況就是說當我緊急的時候要向銀行去證明這件事情的時候他可以很快速來看但是現在我們數位化如果很成功之後他整個中央系統沒有被處理掉你到其他的相關分行也是可以找到你的資料但是我們只是說以備萬一但是也有反過來的情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
6750.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
6770.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
有可能我們的電力網路資料庫被破壞反而你需要留下實體的證明對不對所以他這裡強調的紙本 實體跟數位都同時要有才是比較安全的 是不是這樣子是一個當然是比較多重的這部分比較可以減少以後驗證就像比如身分證掉了你很麻煩對不對對 身分證掉了點起來就好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
6771.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
6788.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
就是你可以假設少身分證包括你要重新開戶要確認你是誰就產生困擾所以類似像這樣我們可以減少未來在驗證的但是今天我們來談到當一個緊急狀況發生的時候我們本來賴以現代化數位化的生活就會受到中斷所以我們來看一個情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
6789.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
6814.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
再一個極端的狀況我們看烏克蘭的例子當一個極端的狀況的時候這個國家的電力網路資料庫系統都被破壞的時候甚至他是遭到網路的恐攻這時候無止化反而造成了你的銀行帳戶你的資產不見了你的有價證券不曉得怎麼去證明甚至你的不動產證明如果說資料庫被破壞這可能都損及到未來你在貧富之後你怎麼證明你的財產的問題是不是存在這樣的情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
6815.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
6844.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
我想在極端情況的時候我們現在大部分都沒有經過這個狀況我們從一些媒體或是從其他知道在那個狀況的時候可能是電力網路跟這個大家都沒有了當我們沒有電力沒有網路的時候確實很多數位服務會中斷但是我們也開始也注意到說這問題怎麼樣強化金融的韌性怎麼樣維持最低度的服務的應變措施那種極端狀還沒來還有一種就是什麼就是這一個就是科技手段的攻擊 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
6845.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
6868.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
就是說我們之前有委員提出叫做金融兵推不見得在第一時間它就是一個極端的一個鼓勵供給的狀態但是因為我們的數位金融很普及如果有人用網路恐攻對我們金融系統或者說平時不是恐攻恐攻跟詐欺它的利基點都在於我們大量的仰賴數位金融所以因為數位金融的關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
6869.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
6894.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
這些竊取個資或者詐騙金流它就可以產生恐攻它剛好目的不是為了錢它為了擾亂你的金融秩序那麼我們金管會對於這個部分用科技手段來進行攻擊有沒有進行金融的兵推其實我們在金融研訓院過去一直都有針對這部分我們有跟國外的這些的相關的兵推機構做合作這已經做很多年了 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
6894.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
6920.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
是 所以你們得到什麼心得其實這些兵推不是只有緊急狀況發生的平時也跟我們打仗有關對不對是的是的 好 那我們現在看好 那現在我們來看一下這個小局書提到說這些資安看起來大家看到資安就很像是速發布但是你認為像這個資安裡面它所提示的事情譬如說來自中國伺服器在中國的APP或者說它有各自洩漏的風險或者說據攝像 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
6921.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
6940.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
的功能的中國品牌產品這些在危機發生的時候都可能產生我們的個資或隱私外洩但在平常的時候這會不會也是一個詐團他們進行詐騙取得個資的一個管道所以這些看起來資安是屬於速發部的是不是也跟我們的金融安全息息相關跟我們的打詐息息相關 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
6941.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
6967.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
那當然打詐是不會分部會的它是就是無孔不入詐騙無孔不入我想這部分我們在金融這邊也不斷提醒我們的消費者所以我不斷地剛兩度引用了小局書就是希望說金管會也可以用思考居安思維從打詐的角度也要參考小局書的這樣的內容去告訴民眾做一些宣導我們來看一下 譬如說金管還可以做什麼譬如說我們看到Coupon |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
6968.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
6995.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
有人說個資外洩是一個終極的離職員工為什麼特別要講到終極就是跟APP的伺服器放在中國一樣我們覺得他的有疑慮我們又看到台積電最近台積電最大的一個問題不是那個挪威人是因為有三個內鬼洩密結果居然不追溯東京威力而且用國安法所以目前我們看到說這些金融從平常的打詐到境外敵對勢力的滲透 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
6997.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7015.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
這些都從資安到國安都有關聯是不是這樣子我想資安是一個全面的議題它就是會影響到個人以外如果很多的個人單位影響整個社會影響到國家所以我們看到如果就台積電的案子他們對於前高階主管離職後跑去Intel那是國家忠誠 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7016.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7041.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
他們有沒有競業條款他們違反了前公司的保密規定台積電自然會對他個人採取一個訴求法律訴求但是對於國籍的問題這就問題來了我們往下看譬如說我們的關鍵基礎設施你看一看台電對他的關鍵基礎是說公平對待廠商不允許具有中級的員工維修人員進入核電廠你覺得為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7041.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7069.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
為什麼同樣的這樣的一個關鍵基礎設施台電會特別針對你的外包商你來標我的工程 標我的維修但是你進入廠區的不能有中國國籍的這樣的員工為什麼我想當然就是基於剛剛的一些的考慮那上面有幾個個案就告訴我們這件事情好 所以關鍵基礎設施包括我們的金融重要的基礎設施我們其實有針對幾家重要的金融機構我們是有特別的 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7070.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7086.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
有規定他們的人員的國籍的規定有在清查嗎其實我們在金融機構啊所有的裡面的這些的人員的聘僱都有一定的規定對外國人聘僱都有一定的規定所以目前這個部分可不可以請金管會在上次有詢問過 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7087.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7114.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
請你再次檢查一下好不好是不是我們有做到了目前我們看到的這些在其他商業部門暴露出來的個案我們金融機構特別重要好 再往下看其實過去本席有提出說我們炸房條例跨業照會要納第三方支付目前政院版的第88條有沒有納入三支就是我們現在是因為以前那個照會只有同業照會我們現在改成跨業照會是的 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7115.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7129.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
那跨業造會當中 跨業是跨哪些業有沒有辦法第三方支付主要是VASP跟銀行銀行 那三資呢三資過去一樣是炸團最常使用的那麼怎麼預防炸團用三資呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7132.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7145.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
這裡面的所謂的其他金融機構或提供虛擬資產服務之事業或人員包括關於三資現在看起來是沒有現在是沒有那覺得需不需要將三資納入到這一個範圍內 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7146.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7169.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
因為主要是我們打造專法裡面四個帳戶本身來講它已經有界定在一定的範圍內是不是請我們局長補充一下 趕快時間有限這個我們在行政院平台裡面有討論過數位部是認為說因為目前三制它已經有納入到能量管理的部分所以它不用透過這種跨業造會的機制來處理好 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7170.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7194.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
我想這個詐團的手段日益日新月異我希望金管會不要因此說其他部會說不用就不用你們要維持你們的高度警戒如果說只有能量納管不夠那麼你們未來的法規內容還要擴充 可以嗎是 我們會來在那個平台上來提出這樣一個相關的演繹好 最後我們這邊之前也在一個我們公聽會的時候提過關於國際治安的管理標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7197.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7212.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
這裡面他提到的資安的漏洞其實包含了不是在場域裡面的其他的電子設備它的晶片內容都要納入目前我們國內的金融機構大部分都以國際資安管理標準去進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7213.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7236.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
但是它仍然有漏洞它的漏洞我在上次公聽會的時候提到說不是人員 不是進行傳輸的設備而是在空間場域的其他電子傳輸設備講得很簡單就是在一個金庫裡面你以為你在幫客戶理財專員在幫客戶理財的電腦是乾淨的但是同一個空間有其他電子傳輸設備是有 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7239.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7262.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
治安疑慮的晶片就有可能將這個資訊外洩這個就是說所謂的金融機構以及VASP全營業場域納入認證範圍這個部分是不是請主委指示我們局長就這個議題就上次公聽論的結論詳細的再去做一個評估可以嗎好 沒問題好 局長可以嗎知道我在講什麼部分吧知道 好那就謝謝主委 謝謝局長謝謝 謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7265.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7269.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
謝謝宗嘉賓委員接下來請李昆成委員質詢謝謝主席我們請彭主委請彭主委委員好主委好我們今天是新的政企局局長過來嗎對好 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7298.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7325.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
這個請教一下主委我們今天是審查銀行法第125條125條之四的條文修正案不過我有看了委員的提案然後就發現說因為我們本來是說你只要是犯罪實際獲取的財務或財產上的利益那這樣子意思是說實際犯罪所得不是說因為犯罪然後獲取的所得對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7326.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7342.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
對 就是他現在來講的話現在我們的司法見解都是已經是以比如說假設以地下會對就是地下會的金額不是會對的手續費不是他所得嘛不是他賺什麼手續費啦或是什麼樣之類的不是吧就是因為這樣子範圍才會大嘛對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7343.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7360.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
對 就是它不是只是那個金手的手續費而已對啊 那如果因為因為我看委員的提案這好像是把它限縮了本來是說你那個你知道金手的這些金額一定比實際上你獲取的利益還要多 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7360.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7378.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
就是如果按照委員提案的文字修正多了個實際兩個對 他就變成實際犯罪嘛那不是整個都限縮了嗎對 就是說他可能就是從剛才講的那個整個的比如說會對的金額可能就實際他就以他所得可能就手續費或是他中間的報酬對 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7379.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7399.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
對啊 那這樣不是對於說我們要譬如說要來打仗或是限制地下會隊這些不是產生了不利的影響嗎所以我們就認為當時我們在立法的情境跟意旨並沒有任何的更動之前我們是建議維持原條文對啊 因為我看法務部的 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7402.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7426.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
說明也是一樣就是說希望能夠維持現在這個銀行法的這一個原本的條文對不對我想司法的判決也是經過很冗長的大家的辯證得到這樣那個結論好 對啊我是看了有委員的這提案我發現說奇怪那不是把這一個他的行為把它限縮成實際犯罪所得嗎那這樣不是變成說我們要打劫範圍變更小嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7428.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7443.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
確實我們在報告上有提到這有點降低我們對這個未來處罰的條件當然也有提到就是說是否符合一定的比例各種不同的見解都有但是我們從過去的司法實務上已經收斂到就是原來是以那個金額為主 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7444.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7469.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
好 再請教一下主委目前我們有三家純網路銀行對不對有連線銀行 將來銀行還有樂天銀行 是的這三家其實目前都還是虧損當中三家網銀到9月底的統計累計虧損達到87億對不對 是的按照主委的看法的話是不是網銀還會持續的虧損下去 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7470.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7495.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
我想從一個經營的角度來看因為他們成立的時間比較短那當然市場上已經有一些已經有佔有一些優勢的競爭者在裡面我想說對一個新的金融機構來講不太可能很短時間就能夠獲得那時間因為有四五年了嘛對 但是我們也看到就是說不管是性平機構或是對其中的部分已經持比較正面的態度而且我們也看到他們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7497.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7516.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
有些銀行已經開始營運已經慢慢地顯現出當時的目的我想站在金管會的立場我們既然已經開放這個業態我們當然也希望說它能夠在市場上提供它的價值所以我們在過去我們也針對它的業務範圍做合理的調整我想這部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7517.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7533.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
等一下請教主委現在就是說樂天銀行它到年底虧損可能會到達30億已經達到資本的三分之一的快達到它的法定的紅線了金管會有做什麼樣的處理嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7534.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7557.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
沒有 當然是這樣這是我們根據銀行法的規定就是說今天來講你超過了三分之一就要提這個計畫那目前有提計畫嗎現在還不到三分之一大概是27 28左右對啊 那也快接近了我們也關切這件事情說我們在很多場合裡面我們都說其實你要注意這件事情因為這個是所以都是僅此於這個口頭提醒他們而已不是 這個就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7557.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7582.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
依照法律就是這樣來做的就是說他沒有到你一到就按照規定就來跟我們申報跟我們說明而且我們就會開始採取對 那在此之前沒有採到三分之一紅線之前你們就是那就是法律的規定就是口頭跟他講就是說你們快到這樣子這個就是法律其實他們也知道對不對對 當然那他們有提什麼政治的計畫嗎或是怎麼樣的我想從很多媒體上你看到他們也有提出這樣一個構想 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7584.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7599.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
但是僅止於構想但是它是內部公司治理事項吧就是這樣因為目前還沒有查到你們那個監管會的紅信就對了我們的法律非常的明確因為我看到那一個它主要大股東是國票金那國票金它就說這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7602.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7629.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
國票金的最大的股東也是公股公股銀行願意增資才願意跟進增資有聽到這種說法嗎不過我想是這樣因為主要是根據金控法五十三條就是說金控公司對它的子公司本來就有代為籌資的義務以它持股比率其實這個樂天有五十一是日資四十九是本國資本其中就是在本國各個就是國票金的持股大概是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7630.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
7645.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
所以它增資的部分國票金的增資的義務就是49%就是根據這個那其他就是應該是公司他們要來做這件事所以假設依法它的義務就是根據金融法無三條就按照比率那剛才有提到說這一個鬆綁這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
7648.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
7674.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
因為其實惠譽這家顧問公司也提到就是說如果能夠再做一些政策上面的一些鬆綁的話其實是可以讓這些純網路銀行他們的營運能夠更健全我不曉得說在金管這方面對於純網路銀行的政策這方面有沒有任何鬆綁的可能性其實我想說委員很關注這一題 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
7676.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
7696.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
我們在去年提出金融科技發展的五策略裡面我們就有一個支持網路金融所以當然包括我們的網營的部分我們就開放這三家接下來我們的數位保險公司正在申請中我想這部分我們是支持所謂市場上有一個創新的動能但是我們要維持市場公平的競爭因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
7700.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
7718.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
純網營它本身的條件完全比照銀行只是它的經營業務範圍我們會持續在合理的範圍之內比如說我們對它的法案開戶房貸業務連帶這案子這些東西我們都會把它透過業務事辦的方式現在有開放了對不對有 有 有有沒有哪些還準備可以開放的我們會跟他們協商就是站在因為它就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
7720.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
7747.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
100億的公司他就資本條件什麼都一樣那我們是希望說他維持他在市場上比如提供創新服務的價值這是我們當初開放他最重要的這樣的意義但是其他我們覺得說怎麼樣做對客戶是好的或是怎麼樣這個風險可控的情況之下我們盡量的讓他做到跟一般的銀行是可以公平競爭我想我們朝這個方向來走就是說他要跟他公平競爭那一定有些業務也是跟現在的銀行是一樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
7748.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
7767.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
但是金管又希望他能夠做一些創新性的當然 因為當時我們開放就像我們開放數位保險公司都是一樣你如果無法對 那我的意思就是說現在是正面表列說你哪些可以做對不對現在應該講說他過去就這個名字錯了那有沒有說有哪些不能做的其他都可以做 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
7767.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
7783.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
這部分我們就透過逐步示範跟他們討論的方式我們在做調查所以這也是為什麼我們這個性平機構會對這個東西持一個比較正向的看法他是希望說如果金管會能夠做一些政策上的鬆綁的話未來可能是朝正面的發展可是我這樣聽好像 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
7786.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
7805.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
好像還沒什麼比較具體的東西出來就像我剛剛跟委員報告的我們已經透過就是實際上他們就是可以比如說過去我們法案開戶一定要都透過線上我們還有就是房貸業務還有連貸業務這些現在已經有的了對 我們還會持續的再去跟他們討論就是說有些什麼他們的需要在我們政策同意的範圍之內我們來做一些調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
7806.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
7820.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
好 最後再問你這個有關電子支付 權支付它最近有發生了一些倒刷的事情你們也要求說它在17號 11月要提出書面報告有提出書面報告了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
7821.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
7848.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
我想這個是我們的所有的重大事故通報的標準程序那我想說對啊 那麼彭局長還有有提出書面報告了嗎因為剛好結二連三都是全是負來 彭局長有 那個跟委員報告這個他也循重大偶發通報程序他已經有把相關報告報過來那事實上這個應該是說在之前就已經發生過的一個案件那因為他當時要做系統的更換他有一些測試區的資料那被流出去了 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
7849.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
7877.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
所以相關的不管是跟客戶之間的一個和解或者是它後續強化的一個管控措施其實它都留出去的資料有多少因為它那個是在測試區那詳細的數字我是不是再跟委員報告因為那個資料是非常有限而且相關的資料事實上是有做一些比較隱蔽的一個方式來呈現損失的金額有多少被打出來的金額有多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
7879.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
7890.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
個案的部分就是它個案的部分就是總共我就不是談個案我們的了解應該是39名的客戶有被冒名來使用那金額呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
7892.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
7915.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
金額的部分它回報大概是340萬左右那這個是系統性的還是說有什麼樣的應該是說單一的一個事件也就是說它可能是在做相關業務擴展或者是系統轉換的過程裡面那被不法集團它以大量的方式傳送簡訊然後再以那怎麼會那麼剛好是它測試那段期間 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
7916.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
7940.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
可能就是可能詐團他也會看當只要這個金融機構他有一些行銷活動或者是說有一些這個動作的時候他大概就是會比較趁虛而入這麼厲害就知道說他們現在在測試這個系統不過我們大概也觀察到就是說詐團他也會不特定的去選擇金融機構來攻擊那他攻擊的一個方式大概就是說以大量的方式來傳送簡訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
7942.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
7967.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
這個傳送簡訊的過程當中有些是真的是剛好金融機構的客戶有些不是金融機構的客戶那如果點了這些簡訊那責任是在消費者身上還是在這個電子支付公司的身上因為過去我們從這個也是可以送評議的但是過去評議中心評議的結果因為通常都是民眾主動的把他的相關帳密交付給詐團所以在責任的分攤上面通常這個都 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
7968.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
7989.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
可是它這個會不會讓消費者不容易查出來就是說這個是屬於譬如說是詐騙的一個釣魚的一個帳號對 所以這個是我們加強要求金融機構要去加強宣導的部分因為它等於是做無差別式的一種攻擊好 那相關的資料再請局長再跟我說明好 謝謝謝謝主席好 謝謝李坤誠召委好 接下來請李彥秀委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8004.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8009.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
我是不是可以邀請我們主委好 請彭主委委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8014.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8035.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
主委長安諾在警政署十月份的時候公布我們上半年對於全國人民對於治安滿意度的狀況調查中顯示出國人對於在住家或社區附近各縣市的治安滿意度是高的但是卻對於全國整體治安只有51%的滿意度 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8038.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8065.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
這個形成很強烈的對比也就是說到我家附近我都覺得很安全但是對於全國治安不滿意度這個比例非常懸殊那我們探究的原因最重要的因素不同於過去黑幫槍械或毒品犯罪或詐騙其實是直接威脅到全國人民感受最深的覺得台灣的治安不好它只有五成一的滿意度 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8066.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8082.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
那雖然我們政府無論警政署無論金管會這邊我們丟出各項工具我們都努力的打詐但是從目前的成效來看大家國人對於打詐的成效其實大家還是不滿意的 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8083.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8098.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
那我覺得最糟糕的是大部分被詐騙民眾被詐騙了之後錢拿不回來這個是最主要原因因為很多人問我說錢拿不拿得回來我都只能很抱歉的跟他講說我覺得有一定的困難度 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8099.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8127.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
那個時間一超過車手一轉出去之後錢幾乎是回不來了所以銀行局我們底下做了很多的努力包括很多經濟的措施包括零貴的關懷包括阻攔非法的金流我們做了很多的努力但是在這一塊我想先請問主委你對於目前打炸的方向你個人滿不滿意你可以自己打幾分在金管會的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8127.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8144.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
我覺得打炸就是我當然不滿意因為主要是這個還是非常的多但是我們因為冰冷的數字沒辦法對國人有相同的感受是 主委你講對了因為我今天問題很多你不滿意 國人也不滿意 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8145.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8157.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
當然錢拿不回來最主要原因但是我們更擔心的是你很多的靈慧關懷去攔阻非法的金流很多人也擔心說被騙的錢拿不回來但是沒被騙的帳戶被凍結 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8162.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8178.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
這個是我相信很多委員都在現場跟主委溝通過的那很多民眾就對於打詐失去信心被騙了拿不回來我真的有要急用的時候我被攔截而且解凍還要花一段時間這才是最麻煩的 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8179.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8203.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
那就是說金融業在零貴關懷的部分做過了頭沒有一個更清楚的標示跟標準有時候馬上要急用的反而花了好幾個鐘頭甚至一天的時間他才可以解凍這個是現在我們所聽到在基層跟我們陳情的方向那當然我們在上個月11月15號我們金融業防詐的措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8204.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8231.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
主委你宣布了有几个三大重点我们要以AI防治以精准为目标服务不中断申诉要迅速组扎要彻底联防要到位刚才主委已经说对于目前的成效是不满意的我这边接受到的成绩除了我刚刚讲的之外人工的复合流程有时候要达到一天到两天这个就对于很多急用的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8232.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8256.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
他也求助無門有些人還會找上我們幫他證明說這個真的是誰找他家人一起來身分證一起確認有些人他不認識任何人他真的有急用家裡有緊急傷臟住院還是繳什麼費用的時候真的無從去解決沒有辦法去找到一個平衡點所以主委我要提醒你就是說我們現在AI造成的帳戶誤動的現況它不是偶發性的 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8261.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8283.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
如果從我這邊聽到還有很多委員不同黨派大家都在這邊澄清我們就可以關注到那個AI的錯誤它有可能是呈現結構性的偏誤所以我們現在有四種AI結構會造成偏誤的狀況包括高齡者跟小兒戶很多高齡的長輩他通常是現金交易轉帳的頻率低可是他 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8284.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8305.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
突然轉帳就會被視為是異常有這個需求 他就變異常零工族跟平台族他的收入不穩定 很多元他會被容易判斷是可疑的金流跨區就學者或家庭的支持者經常因為進行跨縣市的匯款他時間不固定所以會被認為是人頭帳戶會被認為是警示帳戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8309.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8328.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
所以他臨櫃的時候有時候都會接到電話被關注到這會變成他們的困擾包括受補助或臨櫃資金入帳的時候因為帳戶很長時間沒有動用那突然有補助或親人入帳可能會觸發中型敏感的警示出現所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8329.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8354.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
主委 就是說我們這樣的系統的問題偏誤是背離我們普惠金融的要求我想主委你非常清楚知道我在說什麼所以未來AI的訓練其實是非常重要的其實AI是可以透過訓練的那我們AI當然也可以評估做風險高低的評估區分譬如說限額轉帳它轉帳只有低以下的金額你不要花那麼多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8355.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8364.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
利器 我不應該這麼說就是說你應該去區分我如果只是局部的凍結或限額的轉帳跟全部凍結它應該要有不同層次的管控才對我如果只是限額的或局部的轉帳你應該跟全部大量的轉帳你應該有不同層次的管控跟管理才對 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8377.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8396.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
而不是同一個標準警察派出所同仁也來然後兩三個人都圍著那些那只是幾萬塊的轉賬只是它面臨這四種不同的狀況所以主委我們在這一塊達到普惠金融的目的我覺得這一塊應該勢必要調整面對民眾的陳情 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8400.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8426.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
那第一時間到底多快可以解凍我們排除了所有的問題之後我們可不可以要求第一時間可以再多快解凍我覺得這個應該要更明確告訴我們金融業者主委你怎麼解決這些問題其實謝謝委員給我這個時間說明剛才委員說我滿不滿意打詐騙消失之前我想政府官員沒有滿意的空間這是一個我們一定要做的 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8427.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8443.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
但是就是說我們不可諱言就是在主詐過程當中一定會有一個學習的過程剛才那個委員有提到但是被誤控的民眾的感受我想是特別強烈的但是我在這邊還要再講一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8444.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8465.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
我們政策上可以大家來討論批評但是我覺得在第一線的打炸的負責第一線的這些同胞包含我剛才提到在現場去主炸的員警跟航員我們都要全力的支持當然支持但是我再提醒問題出在哪裡你要有不同層次的管控 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8465.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8487.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
其實我們在做的時候剛才第一波在採用的時候確實我覺得他們在學習的過程當中做得不好我們也把銀行找來特別特別的跟他們講了很多所以他們開始提出很多很多的管控我想最近應該是應該又有所改變我們也不可諱言的就是說我們做這樣的管控以後確實警示帳戶從這麼長遠來那個角度來看開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8492.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8512.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
減緩甚至下降我想這件事情就是一個明顯的過去這麼長久來警示賬戶都一直直線的上升我想這部分是努力但是我覺得這個成本如果說要由這些比如說剛才委員提醒的這部分我們一定會來精進這個方法方向不變方法一定要調整我想這部分一定是我們在什麼時候可以有 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
8513.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
8532.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
不同的 方向不變我支持當然方向不變因為我們要打仗我們要阻斷金流但是方法如何去做調整AI如何更精進的去做更多不同的訓練因為AI可以訓練嘛你又可以不同層次的管制措施我們的林貴官員我也都支持我覺得大家都很辛苦 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
8533.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
8556.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
但是你要趕快去有不同的標準趕快是有一個標準實施教育告訴金融業者我們針對不同的層次我們要怎麼去加強這個幾乎是我們同仁每天每天的工作每天都要跟這些因為我們會接到各式各樣的陳情我們也要去處理我們會跟銀行幹任何一個悟空的個案都成為很好學習的教材我想這部分我們會不斷的方法來進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
8556.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
8584.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
你剛講教材主委我相信你知道這是教材那你也了解但是第一線知不知道包括AI人文訓練林貴的金融業者第一線也了不了解這些事情因為我們聽到的抱怨太多主委我不是在跟你吵架我是把問題讓你知道那這個問題已經存在很久也不是我李彥秀一個人在這邊質詢過一定有別人跟你溝通過真正需要用錢在第一時間有緊急用的時候往往解凍的時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
8585.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
8609.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
不是幾個小時有時候到一兩天他變成要去跟別人借錢要跟別人臉皮很薄要去跟別人開口跟里長借錢所以這個是造成不便的原因這我們完全體會我們在第一線所以主委我今天要的就是說你多久時間可以把這些現況我不敢邀請說你一步到位達到我的要求但是你至少可以有層次的告訴我 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
8610.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
8624.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
在管制措施上你會趕快去做多少時間會做當然你或許不能達到我百分之百的目的其實這是跟委員講這是我們日常在做的而且我們也不斷在優化在請他們在做我最後想講一下就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
8625.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
8644.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
在主炸過程當中就像比如說我們真的被成功主炸了通常聲音很小但是呢比如說他認為物控的聲音就會很大這是我們面對的壓力包括剪調有跟我們講說很多炸團員炸團員會利用這個輿論來投降我覺得我都知道身為政務官 身為政府其實人民的要求永遠是 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
8646.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
8670.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
對 所以我剛才講說這些東西我們都應該要知道我只是說我們更要冷靜的去處理這個問題就是說我們會主委我還是要要求一個時間對我來說因為我把民意反映出來我其實比委員還急我知道那什麼時候可以看到進一步的改善給你一個書面的回應給我們李燕秀委員好不好我就把我們最近的改善的措施或怎麼樣我再給 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
8671.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
8683.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
很具體的我希望我下一次再問的時候這些問題可以有做層次方面的改善具體的回應具體的改善謝謝委員的關心謝謝李燕燊委員接下來請嚴寬衡委員質詢主席各位理事官員大家好主席有請金管會的彭主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
8706.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
8715.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
主席有請彭主委請彭主委主委好主委金管會 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
8723.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
8750.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
通過台新人壽跟星光人壽合併及更名申請案那合併基準日是2026年的1月1日規模上看3.96兆排名第四那儘管會面對台新人壽與星光人壽的合併雖然已經強調這個保護權益不受影響但是仍然還有兩大疑點需要詢問主委第一個合併後的財務黑洞跟風險轉移移轉的問題是否被低估第二個就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
8751.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
8778.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
保護告知服務不中斷是否真的有監理機制而不是只靠公司的承諾請主委回答我想從後面開始回答就是說對保護而言我們從過去我們台灣這麼多的這個合併案裡面我們已經非常非常清楚知道保護的權益不會在任何合併上產生任何的變動我想這是應該是從過去的經驗包括我們整個監理措施跟實際的這個案例都證明這一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
8779.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
8802.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
剛剛委員提到兩個問題一個財務黑洞我在猜是因為過去在那之前因為我們在因為整個受險業的所謂它的資本氏族是隨著整個經濟環境變動而變動比如說現在利率的關係它的評價就會產生一個比如說資產的減損或者利率的降低就會增加負債的提撥這隨時都在變動當中所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
8805.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
8832.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
我們在整併過程當中已經針對這個財務上面已經做好了一些的相關的審查合併是兩家公司的合併該有的財務黑洞不會消失或是該有的財務負擔增資需求不會消失當然講風險移轉的部分我們本來是兩家經貨公司合併然後接下來第二步就是兩家經貨公司同性子子公司的合併我想這個大概就是過去的既有的 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
8832.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
8850.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
對 因為我們都很清楚因為台新跟星光他們兩家的體質這個差異是很明顯的是很明顯的那這個診病的風險我們就是要避免轉嫁到投資人或者是保護的身上好不好 主委我想這個沒有問題應該是不會好 那我想在 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
8851.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
8873.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
請教主委就是今天審查營養法第125條提高非法吸金案件的刑者以嚇阻犯罪這是全民期待的台灣人對於這個詐騙深惡痛絕但是詐騙的手法推陳出新變化多端我們就看上個月打詐儀表板的數據上個月的詐騙案件就有13673件那財損金額達到60億4400萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
8880.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
8907.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
就財損的方面看起來這個假投資詐騙共損失了24億8319萬佔總財損的41.1%所以打造預表板這幾個月的數字其實都是這邊多一下 那邊少一下沒有固定下降的趨勢表示說這個打造的效果有限而且假投資詐騙每個月都是財損的第一名遠遠大過於其他的這些詐騙手法 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
8909.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
8926.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
非法吸收存款就是等於直接跟人民拿錢直接榨取人民手上的錢跟我們跟所謂的地下會對的違規行為從中賺取手續費跟會差是完全不同的兩件事情所以金管會對於這次修法態度是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
8927.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
8946.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
我想跟委員報告我剛才在那個報告裡面包括我們法務部代表都已經提過了就是說我們現行銀行法本來就對這個地下匯兌跟非法吸金是視同一個等同的重大金融犯罪我們對這個所謂的犯罪的金額做一個差別化的量刑那我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
8947.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
8972.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
本來就是如果超過1億元就是超過1億元以上的話我們是加重其刑我想這次委員的提案是希望把所謂的地下會隊把它從整個會隊的金額把它限縮成實質的所得某種程度來講的話它可能產生是降低它的刑責的苛求剛剛我們在前面幾位委員的 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
8975.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
8992.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
報告裡面也提到這個不管是非法吸金不管是剛才講的提到的就是所謂的非法的匯兌對整個台灣的金融市場的安定跟整個都是產生非常重大還有包括有高度的洗錢風險所以我們對剛剛那個修法我們建議還是在整個 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
8993.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9013.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
環境而且整個社會氛圍在沒有改變的情況之下我們認為是這樣特別是比如說我們這次打詐專法裡面大家有社會共識對於車手這部分我們希望把它從所謂的他的實質所得改成整個犯罪所得我想趨勢民眾厭惡詐騙 厭惡犯罪行為我想大概是這樣的一個相同所以我們還是比較建議說維持現行的條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9015.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9032.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
好 主委除了剛剛提到這個非法吸金跟地下匯兌其實不只投資人像我們的一般的學生或者是沒有在投資的也會被詐騙虛擬遊戲虛擬遊戲的這個代幣也是一個重災區你們有沒有做過統計分析說虛擬點數 遊戲點數還有娛樂城點數這一類的他們這些非金融機構發行但是已經具有金融金流功能的這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9044.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9062.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
這些項目在所有的詐騙案中的占比是多少受害者的年齡分佈是多少因為這個其實跟我們抱歉這不是我們監管我們當然不會有這個數字所以當然這可能比如說其他整體打詐看看其他部位比如說速發部他們有沒有這樣一個主委提醒就是說有一個新的問題就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9064.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9084.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
這一類誘導購買點數它會讓我們所謂的這個詐團洗錢鍊就是說有個行為叫代儲代替儲值就是說詐團用比官方更便宜的價格比如說市場的4折到7折 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9084.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9105.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
譬如說官方的3800點數要3290元但是代儲只要2500元用這樣子的方式來吸引玩家玩家會以為說他賺到了但是其實這是一整條完整的詐團洗錢鏈用詐團的不法資金透過黑市暗網兌換成這個加密貨幣然後再以加密貨幣兌換會對P2P的網站然後換成可儲值的這種禮物卡 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9113.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9138.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
取得禮物卡之後再以市價的4到7折來協助玩家儲值我們金管會扮演的角色是金流的把關者 對不對對於這種新興的張著一個洗錢的產業鏈這種新型態的金流我發覺我們金管會在這裡面的角色不夠所以說是不是完全沒有去注意到這個相關的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9139.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9154.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
我想說就是因為假設他透過我們金融機構的帳戶的部分如果有提醒的話我們當然會把它列入我們的那個考量來看看納管對不對其實我們本來就已經對所有的洗錢的經理我們都是在這個這個人簽到其他部會他們在 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9158.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9184.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
所以我可不可以說就是要求請主委去研議這個問題就是說把虛擬的道具 點數 賬號的買賣第三方交易平台必須設立公司登記提供完整的交易紀錄跟用戶資料納入金管會的治安相關的法規來監管做這樣子的一個推動 可以嗎我想這部分我們那個我可不可以簡短請我們局長跟您說明一下好 簡單說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9185.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9201.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
根委員報告那個遊戲點數業者數位部已經有著手做相關的管理那至於就是說這個代儲的部分如果是透過那個信用卡來進行代儲的話我們也有要求對特電進行相關的一個查核對 所以我們金管會在這個跨部會的合作裡面就扮演的就是金流把關者 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9202.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9228.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
所以我在這邊才要求金管會要求主委說在這一個新的這種行為跟這樣子一個詐團利用這樣子的方式在洗錢的這部分金管會來要求好不好就我們從現有剛剛局長報告現有的制度你有沒有來強化因為如果不納管的話等於是在幫助洗錢其實我們就剛才講過就是我們跟現有跨部會合作的機制裡面我們來強化這樣的一個措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9230.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9234.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
好的 謝謝主委謝謝好 謝謝顏寬和委員質詢好 接下來我們請黃珊珊委員質詢謝謝主席 我請彭主委好 請彭主委委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9255.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9275.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
所以好 我想最近大家都非常關心一個事情就是應對天災 疫病還有極端氣候以及敵人侵略的危機挑戰國防部有參考歐洲國家出了小局書當危機來臨 台灣全民安全之意那要求民眾在遇到緊急狀況的時候知道要怎麼做 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9276.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9293.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
而且花了6000多萬在明年1月5號要完成普發到全國980萬戶的家庭這件事情非常的重要但是我想問一下主委我們在裡面很認真的看你們金管會有參與這個安全指引的草擬嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9294.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9314.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
我們整個在國家韌性計畫裡面本來我們的財經部會都有參與所有參與所以我們在這個小局書裡面其實看到一件滿有趣的事他說貴重物品請民眾準備少許的現金跟零錢我想問一下少許是多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9315.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9334.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
我想這應該主要是這個 當然 這個是我們不知道對 沒有 這個都是只是提醒啦我現在要跟你說的是小局書的緊急避難包準備在國外 先進國家其實都有很具體的建議荷蘭政府建議三天成人70塊歐元 兒童30塊歐元 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9336.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9363.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
芬蘭三天美國郵他州五天而且汽油要兩百塊汽車旅款七百塊飲食兩百塊大概一千一百塊一個成人也就是說台灣一個人準備三天的基本需求如果是三天你覺得台灣人應該準備多少錢在這個小避難包裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9364.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
9385.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
我想說三天我想在座的每個人應該的金額都是不一樣的對 但是我們政府要建議多少我們大概算一算一天大概抓一千塊三天如果70歐元的話大概是三千塊左右這個部分是不是在金管會也好還有給所有行政院內政部的建議我建議更具體一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
9386.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
9407.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
因為這次既然花這麼大的錢通知民眾就不應該這麼空洞啦我這樣聽起來我覺得如果我們跟人家比起來我們是很空洞少許現金少許少許是多少不知道也沒有計畫也沒有相關的警示這是第一個我認為 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
9408.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
9427.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
我們如果真的要做安全指引的話可能各方面都要第二個部分就是我在去年十月質詢卓院長主委也在我說其實我們暫時最重要的是要做金融兵推金融兵推我知道你們有開始在做調整但是如果真的發生暫時的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
9429.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
9446.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
除了剛剛講的現金準備可能會變成擠兌甚至驚慌失措甚至會有所謂的暴力犯罪那金融秩序的安定是建構在我們的銀行體系還正常運作 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
9447.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
9462.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
只要他一旦沒有辦法正常運作其實是會非常恐慌的所以民眾除了剛剛講的準備幾千塊放在包包裡以外他其實在國外還有一個非常重要在金融方面的建議就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
9463.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
9481.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
一旦銀行的資料庫萬一發生了問題你的存款連銀行都沒有辦法告訴你說你的存款還在哪裡的時候民眾其實要預先做好一些準備的對吧 主委是 你覺得呢在那小冊子裡面有提到就是說你要保留你的存摺 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
9482.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
9500.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
保留你的存摺第二個現在已經很多銀行沒有存摺了至少我的一些外商銀行它已經沒有存摺所以大家建議的是你的提款卡要拍照備份存在自己的雲端將來如果這些體系都已經瓦解的時候你還可以證明你自己的存款還在 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
9501.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
9519.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
這件事情是不是所以主委你認不認為你們應該更積極的參與這個所謂的安全指引的指示甚至再做多一點事情這是國家的事情各個部會相關都有參與所以我現在要求的就是金管會應該更具體 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
9520.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
9548.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
第二個在金融真的發生這些問題的時候你開一場大火他所有東西都燒光了他連自己可能只剩下連身份證都沒有了就全部重辦銀行帳戶有很多像我自己我可能忘記我有幾個銀行帳戶了這些東西都應該現在就開始提醒民眾你應該把你的個人資產做好完整的備份資料將來如果萬一的體系完全失聯的話完全失控的話你還有保存你的資產的這些價值 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
9550.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
9575.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
好嗎我覺得剛剛委員提的建議都非常的務實也非常的值得我們來思考是 所以主委我希望儘管會更積極一點在這個所謂大家都認為安全指引很重要的情況下銀行端當然他們本來就應該做好準備但是你不可排除看到別人的戰爭我們自己也要有自己的提醒第二個我們的銀行自己的系統會不會因而受損 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
9576.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
9594.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
雖然現在有異地備援有各種的方式但是還是應該提醒民眾他們自己對自己的資產應該有一定的保護我想這也是小橘叔一個很重要的意義提醒國民居安思文小橘叔看到跟你有關的就這麼那兩句話少許的現金然後沒了 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
9595.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
9621.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
這是我覺得很可惜啦可以多一頁 怎麼樣保留你的資產怎麼樣讓你在災後復原的時候能夠不會受到你的東西不見了 燒光了甚至銀行體系也垮了你的東西找不到了 這些問題所以我覺得 主委我希望我今天的提起 希望你們在今年會期之前你們至少有一個更具體的 剛剛講 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
9622.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
9631.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
歐洲政府都這麼具體台灣的政府更具體一點這樣可以嗎好 我想說這部分我剛才已經說過為那個是非常務實也是非常這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
9634.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
9655.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
這個緊急避難包對於民眾來說可能當場救命可是他接下來要繼續生活他的錢不見了怎麼辦他自己要把自己的檔案存在雲端有個依據將來可以恢復我覺得這個可能不是只有保留存摺而已存摺可能都燒光了而且你也不會隨身攜帶好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
9657.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
9682.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
是的這一點我希望在這個會期我覺得時間給你多一點在休會前至少出一個金管會基本的該有什麼的東西給我一個出面的報告這我們會在相關的會議上面我們提出委員這個好建議是 我覺得安全指引不會只有單單的一個小小的緊急避難寶第二部分就是現在銀行法我們接下來要去審所謂的打砸專法的修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
9683.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
9697.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
接下來的是銀行其實很認真現在在做AI管控所以AI最近發生很多民怨我想很多委員都講過了AI大部分現在都會主動去先暫停交易然後請你來跟我解凍 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
9698.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
9719.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
那很多的民眾有多所抱怨但是相對的其實我們銀行我認為啦他們可能也很想多做事但是他們的授權不夠會造成了各種不同的爭讀其實儘管會有一個存款賬戶跟疑似不法及嫌屬異常交易的管理辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
9719.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
9740.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
就給他很多警示賬戶的權限但是銀行現在非常非常的被動因為他們只有收到檢調來文他們才主動列為警示賬戶比如說看到像太子集團這樣子的狀況其實我覺得他怪怪的銀行是不能對他做任何的限制 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
9741.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
9762.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
但是只要通報的一般市井小民的他們馬上就把它列為警示帳戶這就產生了相對非常嚴重的落差感所以這個辦法我看到它是103年8月份訂的辦法在我們打炸專法都已經通過的情況下這個辦法還沒修 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
9765.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
9793.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
第二個 AI都已經上路了這個辦法也沒有納入欸也就是說如果給銀行更多的法令的依據它除了AI看到的它有一個依據說我可以去把它做調整我可以收到警示我可以主動做點什麼第二個就算不是AI看到我是人我看到這個太子帳戶一大堆錢一大堆亂七八糟的錢之前有那個IMB的帳戶一個月進出五千萬都是小額進來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
9795.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
9821.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
銀行有通報啊通報啦然後呢沒下文啊沒有人理他我的意思是說如果我們有這個辦法你其實是有武器的銀行也需要你提供給他的武器來做點事但是他現在一出事就被罵被罵他不敢做不敢做之後就擔心這個擔心那個一刻數的話又被評鑑主委啊你有這個武器要怎麼用而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
9822.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
9851.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
其实委员讲的是但是一般的民众其实不知道我们打仗专门通过银行本来就有相当于减掉所控账户的但是他现在基本上基本上民众的宣导我们要加油第二个是他大概都不会主动但是必须跟委员报告一般民众他基本上面对减掉跟面对银行的他的态度是完全不同的所以我想说这部分银行背负了很大的压力我得说我们既然有存款户 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
9852.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
9878.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
疑似不法 嫌屬異常交易的管理辦法其實它就是給銀行的授權這個授權就是要讓所有的人都知道銀行是有這樣的權限其實打炸專法也有這個條文銀行很想做 對但是主委我還是要強調一次金管會不能什麼都推給打炸專法你自己在你家裡面有這個工具有這個辦法我麻煩你去修一修這也是為什麼我們會要求它用AI鎖框它本來是依法辦理本來就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
9878.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
9906.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
所以這個法十年沒修了現在的AI現在的新的方式我認為啦你們要把這個辦法更具體化第二個讓所有的民眾他在跟銀行交涉的時候他就知道有可能有一天有這樣的狀況而不是現在發生事情而且現在的AI的確常常出錯我們怎麼樣給銀行一個完整的保護讓他願意多做一點事好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
9907.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
9923.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
我們一定給銀行全力的支持所以這個辦法我也希望你們在兩個月之內有個檢討你們要不要把相關現在的做法可以再做一些修正而且你打砸專法修完之後這個辦法也沒修各位報告我們現在已經啟動相關修法程序了什麼時候會做好 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
9924.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
9940.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
現在還在徵詢各部會的意見主委 這個辦法不能再拖啦都已經上路了AI都已經鎖人家帳戶了你們還在修辦法 好嗎好 我們剛才局長已經很明確的說明了好 謝謝盡速修訂了 謝謝黃珊珊委員接下來請王世堅委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
9959.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
9969.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
呃 謝謝主席 我請請管委彭主委好 請彭主委委員好彭主委是這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
9971.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
9984.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
我們國內的銀行 金控公司所有金融機構那麼他們所收的手續費也就是銷售金融商品的手續費那由112年的2461億到113年已經增加到3156億 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
9997.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10003.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
那麼金額增加這當然好表示我們國內理財金融這些蓬勃發展這當然好 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10004.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10030.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
不過這也代表了不當招攬的風險是提高了不當招攬的風險當然我們金管會有責令各金融單位銀行他們要對於銷售這些理財商品要做充分詳實的向消費者來做說明這一點是有進步但是我從結論來看 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10033.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10055.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
我們光是去年去年開罰了一億七千七百萬在這種不當金融商品的銷售上面那這一億七千七看起來好像金額蠻高的但是這卻是這五年來罰款最少的一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10059.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10071.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
那個年減率更是九年來的新低過去都一年還罰了有三億多那麼至於說不當金融產品在108年到113年這六年裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10076.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10088.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
實質抓到的說這一件事不當金融商品這樣抓的總共才抓了三件總共才抓了三件總共才裁罰5600萬然後這些銀行體系他們也有還有更多很離譜我隨便舉個例子像理財專員 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10098.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10120.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
去挪用存款戶的存款的這一個部分那麼這一個部分近十年來有抓到的有22家銀行總共抓了35件罰了1億6900萬就是理財專員去挪用客戶的存款 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10121.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10146.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
那挪用的金額那金額更是遠大於這罰的這麼一點錢啦那麼我要說的就是說我們在對於金融機構他們的不管理財專員他們的存款的專員或者他們管理的人才的要求跟訓練再多也不夠啦再多也不夠那這裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10148.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10163.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
造成的金融的爭議消費的爭議而去受損的我今天要特別跟你提的就是我們這些高齡者高齡的金融消費者他們最無辜啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10164.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10182.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
高齡的金融消費者因為他在銀行裡面的存款80%以上都是從其一生他努力的成果就那些錢那些就是他要養老中老用的退休金 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10183.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10205.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
所以他們在處理這一個部分的時候當然會接受理財專員他們來報一些有哪一些理財商品他們去了解然後去購買但是他們一旦受騙或者這些理財專員講得不清不楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10206.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10226.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
那麼之間有誤會的那造成的損失都是消費者高齡金融消費者他必須自己去吸收的所以這個部分蠻無辜的啦那在這個部分我查了一下這幾年來當然你們也有進步但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10228.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
10250.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
是高齡金融消費者很多理財銀行他就解釋說年紀大的人自己聽不清楚耳背或者沒有耐心聽所以造成爭議其實並不然你看所有這些案件裡面如果經過向金融機構申訴 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
10252.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
10273.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
那不被接受他們再去找評議中心來申請評議的案件裡面竟然高達我以這三年來的例子111年高齡金融消費者他們提出金融爭議有理者高達18.76%將近20%欸遠高於其他年齡層 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
10280.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
10306.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
所以並不是說高齡金融消費者他們的理解力差 不是這樣也不是說高齡者他們不講道理並不是這個樣子不是現在一般坊間銀行所稱的所以在這一個部分我不曉得您看法怎麼樣然後我知道你們好像有推一個重新又在評估 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
10307.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
10333.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
銀行 金融機構他們要公平待客的機制那我不曉得你在這一個部分對於高齡金融消費者他們受到的委屈他們提出的金融評議的爭議其實有20%都是有道理的你看喔金融爭議消費的評估已經算很嚴苛了喔那樣子之下還20%是認為他們有道理的 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
10337.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
10346.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
可見這些老人家他是吃虧在購買在接洽這個金融商品的當下他是吃虧的 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
10347.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
10367.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
你看法有哪一些你們可以做的像委員這個投影片所示確實我們對高齡者的消費者的保護一直是我們最近的公共重點比如說我們也針對因為台灣走向高齡化客戶會越來越的比例越高是在高齡者高齡者確實在 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
10368.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
10383.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
很多的狀況之下他很多的情況確實跟比如說我們一般的年輕人不太一樣所以這部分我們在評議上面也會針對這個高齡者做一個比較多的一個考量所以我們也看到高齡者這個所謂的比例整個的 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
10384.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
10405.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
那個有理由的比率其實在下降就代表說其實上我們在這個增值的上面金融機構他們這個沒有理由進入平益的比率是在下降中我想這部分也是一個我們看到不過剛剛委員提醒我們對高齡者一直在做很多很多的努力包括我們最近在去標籤的話我們就不希望說 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
10406.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
10434.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
把高齡者只有年齡來做個區隔這個不太對的那我覺得應該是說對他來講要有基本的尊重但是要有一個高度的保護而且要更特別的保護才對他們如果年輕人今天一些存款吃了虧因為理財購買過程吃了虧他改天還有再賺回來的機會那高齡的金融消費者 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
10436.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
10462.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
都已經年屆65歲以上那已經不可能重新再就業再額外的金錢來投入嘛他剩的這一些就是他要終老所用照說這些理財專員沒資格就不要來當銀行金融機構對這一部分理財專員的認定考核竟然是那麼鬆散 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
10464.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
10475.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
那包括評鑑 有啦你們有做評鑑我看了一下你們對於受險產險這些金融機構當然是包括銀行你們有評鑑你們評鑑這也是111年到113年76家金融業者評鑑只有6家耶只有6家列入優等天 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
10490.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
10515.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
那更糟糕的是另外有三家被你們列到這個我簡單講那個叫列等啦那三家是列等的那三家裡面壽險一家 產檢一家 銀行一家天啊 那我們委員會我們一次要求就是說這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
10517.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
10531.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
至少先把這些劣等的連續三年劣等末段班的公佈名稱讓社會大眾知道尤其讓高齡金融消費者知道銀行那麼多受選業者那麼多來去北京就好我們為什麼要來你這邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
10539.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
10553.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
至少對他們有一個警示警示給社會大眾知道同時也對這三家惡劣業者等於是對他們的一種處罰否則你現在 诶 評鑑歸評鑑啦啊你說沒關係啦 這個我們知道啊我們要把他們就近看管啊金管會 銀行局 保險局會加強看管他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
10564.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
10580.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
看管怪看管要嚴加管考這是對的但是公布給社會知道讓所有金融消費者尤其高齡者他們才能夠知道說至少這幾家我不要去破 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
10581.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
10598.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
不是這樣嗎我們現在是公佈前25%了對啦 你公佈優等的嘛你公佈優等的等於是在幫他們打廣告優等的被官方認證打廣告其實也未嘗不可但是 劣等的 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
10599.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
10625.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
這是讓我們社會大眾知道等於警示了所有消費者尤其高齡者讓他們知道說銀行保險公司那麼多我就偏偏不來你這三家末段班這才對減少爭議嘛好不好那什麼時候公布我們來演繹一下整個制度看怎麼樣再跟委員報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
10626.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
10641.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
好啦 最短的時間跟我說明好不好 謝謝不只最後末段這三家你中間還有一些名額不寧的啦好不好倒數的倒數的十家我認為都應該公佈好 謝謝好 謝謝我們謝謝王世堅委員的質詢接下來請謝一鳳委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
10656.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
10684.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
好 謝謝主席 我想要請彭主委好 請彭主委主委早安我有關金融業其實我看了一下我們金融業佔整體國家GDP的比重只有6%那就是長期以來都是這個情況有沒有辦法就是佔國家的GDP的比例提高 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
10685.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
10710.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
這個是我們努力的方向因為我們過去看就是整個GDP的比例成長代表說其實一直維持在這個就是當我們國家的產業已經高度成長的時候金融業是跟它同步成長所以比例不會變但是我們如果要超過這個比例的話就要超額成長就是說我們的成長要比一般的整個產業的成長來得快這是我們努力在做的事情那有辦法嗎就是在風險跟這個我們怎麼樣子創造 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
10713.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
10741.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
其實比如說跟委員報告就是像我們在去年10月開始推動亞洲資產關係中心透過政策鬆綁我們確實看到我們的金融業在這方面產值已經開始發揮它的動囊我想這就是怎麼樣導致一個超額成長很重要的概念像比如說我們像今年11月我們開放那個亞洲創新版就是那個亞洲投資平台的部分如果這能夠帶動起來的話我整體的產業包括我們整個 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
10742.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
10769.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
整個各個銀行證券保險都能夠同步上升的話那還可以帶動產業的發展當然這是相對的也帶動國內產業的發展因為金融業的成長一定是根基在產業的成長上面他們相輔相成因為產業成長需要金融的支持那金融支持他把他支持的產業變大他當然的空間又變大而且他們還會打國際盃才有可能在海外去擴張怎麼樣子吸引就是說國外的資金來台 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
10770.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
10788.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
那這也能夠創造就是說金融業的整體的比重能夠提高對 當然就是比如說我們吸引國際就是要跟國際對標做法要跟國際對標因為國際的資金它會在全球去搜尋它適合的標的跟適合的服務項目 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
10789.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
10817.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
那當然我們現在的做法就是因為我們也看到國內的本來過去我們長期的經濟發展累積了非常多的國民的財富這個財富的本身在過去這麼多年來很大量在海外那我們想說希望第一個先以我們的我們自己的這些作為能夠吸引他們能夠回到台灣來或者說留在台灣再來利用這個動能帶動國際的資金也來台灣這是我們現在的策略一步一步這樣走好 那當然 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
10818.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
10844.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
除了要發展我們金融業希望發展但也希望風險的相對的控管那當然這是我們要做的對不對我知道說金管會也現在在研擬虛擬資產服務法的相關的這樣子的一個部分就我們現在的虛擬貨幣的交易所即便是在台灣受到我們金融機構就是金管會的監理 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
10846.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
10874.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
其實我們知道國際上很大的這些金融的虛擬市場的交易所他們並沒有落地他們並沒有受我們臺灣或者是其他國家的監管那到時候如果在這類型的虛擬貨幣或者是這樣子的交易所發生了相關的問題的時候那未來怎麼樣子處理相關的異議 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
10876.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
10892.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
這個確實是一個比如說我們要面對的問題再來就是說我們現在就是因為我們在開放我們現在的國內的交易平台的時候因為現在國人的參與率還是相對比較低但是因為在過去國內沒有這市場的時候他只要轉向國外 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
10892.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
10912.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
那要到國外去他要具備一定的能力但是當我們國人開始這個觀念越來越多的時候我們希望都是在國內監管的這個平台下交易這部分我們的國人的保障會比較安全那至於在國外交易畢竟是比較不方便而且他沒辦法跟國內的金融機構對不對 網路的平台的交易 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
10913.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
10933.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
對 雖然它可以這樣但它沒辦法跟台灣我們所納管的金融機構做往來這個就是它產生一個很大的等於說我們可以透過這個監管保護我們的國人在未來在這市場上的發展我們現在時就是說在國內落地的這樣子的一個交易所都是變成介於就是把我們的實質的貨幣變成虛擬的貨幣的這樣子一個轉換的一個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
10938.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
10953.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
那但是對於就是說在現在目前在國際上面比較知名的就是交易所那他們的槓桿或者是他們相關的商品比較多的情況下那也有可能造成 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
10954.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
10983.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
就是金融交易上面的風險或者是法律的疑義那希望金管會未來對這個部分也要進行就是說研議畢竟到時候國內如果有銷金融消費者受到相關的問題的時候也有可能會產生相關的糾紛嘛那希望說我們國內的金管會也能對於這樣子的部分也開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
10983.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11002.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
進行演繹好嗎其實我們一直都在做但就是我們也其實我們在比如說我們的VASP專法裡面本來就是外國本來就可以來台灣申請設立這個是沒有問題但是就是說要符合我們相關的規定好 謝謝好 謝謝謝一鋒委員質詢接下來請劉許廷委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11012.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11025.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
謝謝主席 金管會有請好 請彭主委委員好主委 吳安辛苦了今天我們談一下銀行法的這個相關的一個修正案基本上分成兩塊一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11027.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11045.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
當然這個法案的核心初衷如同我在提案說明的時候已經表達就是針對違法吸金行為我們能夠希望比現行的罰則再往上加那我們在審視相關的法條的過程中我們有發現地下會對是一個蠻有趣的特案我舉兩個例子然後我聽一聽金管會的意見然後作為法律修法的一個參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11046.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11073.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
就是說地下會隊的樣態非常多他當然都是不透明的未受監管的金流所以他必須要依法來進行管制這本期完全接受但是說法的實務上面他的個案的差距其實很大的我舉個例子就前一段時間的這個越南地下會隊案就是說一個越南的人嫁到台灣來然後因為認識非常多的移工朋友嘛那有沒有返鄉等等有需求越南方面對於這個會隊的部分他其實抓得非常的嚴格 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11074.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11099.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
那當然就會出現所謂的地下匯兌這樣一個狀況他經手的金流啊就是累積金流大概是6億元左右但實際上他從這個裡面當然賺一點銀頭小利嘛那當然是不對的行為但是他實務上這案例來講他賺了61萬元就是說真正的犯罪所得是61萬元但因為金流是6億元但現在銀行法規定的都是以金流來作為裁罰的依據哇他就踩線了因為這個監管的強度非常高所以他被判了一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11100.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11125.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
本行非常重的一個刑期但法官在裁的時候就說這個跟現實上的狀況有點不太相合也就是說現實上的狀況他其實並沒有因為這樣賺了什麼大錢他也不是詐騙他也沒有騙人家的錢他只是賺你的銀頭小利所以連續減刑了兩次後來讓這兩個人可以緩刑那我就覺得蠻奇怪的就是說如果我們法規修正很嚴格但是最後法官在執行的時候卻開了後門這樣不是很奇怪嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11125.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11142.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
制度上有沒有可以再優化的地方但後來我又發現也有不一樣的案子啊比如說最近這個在延遲這個限制出海的這個吳承林案經手一百多億元史上最大的地下會隊的案子不乏所得是九千多萬同樣是地下會隊有人是迎頭小利有人是龐大的聚力 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11142.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11163.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
那在同一套的法規下面我如果放鬆了好像會縱放了這些大額所得的這群人我如果抓得很嚴格然後又要讓那個迎頭小利的人要用特殊的方法比如說減刑或什麼方法來做處理所以我覺得法規上面有一些疑義所以在地下會對的部分我們雖然提了一個版本但我們希望聽一聽行政機關的意見看看怎麼樣有辦法讓這個法制上 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11165.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11183.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
做完善的这个讨论那我想无非两个方向第一个是违法吸金要不要在现行的法官上我们再加重让纯粹的吸金行为因为吸金基本上带着诈骗这个方才在内政委员会修正诈房条例的时候也拉高了相关的刑度这我们希望可以再因为这应该是要同步进行的 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11184.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11205.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
如果針對違法吸金的行為要進行徹底的打擊的話本期認為即便現在七年以上達到一定的時候都還不夠應該繼續往上加這一點聽聽金管會的意見第二有關於地下會對這種個案差異非常大然後他很有可能跟洗錢房子要掛鉤的這個狀況的時候我們要怎麼樣來做討論跟設計可以讓這個制度更加的完整我聽一下金管會的意見是 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11206.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11227.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
我待會也會請局長做個簡單的補充我想第一個就是說剛剛委員在提案說明跟包括就是我們打擊犯罪 犯罪臨終者我想我們態度都一樣這部分我想我非常支持委員的態度只是說我們在修法的時候我們就是從我們的報告裡面我們有個顧慮就是說就剛才委員舉那個極端的例子裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
11228.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
11257.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
其實有時候很難去做一個因為犯罪行為而且是個重大犯罪行為假設在科以這個比如說其他的這樣一個比如說參考進來的話其實我覺得這個就對外產生一個宣示效果就是說這個可以來討論我想這個因為在過去這個案例這個條文很久了在司法的判決也經過冗長的因為很麻煩他個案差異太大了才做成現在的這樣的見解我想也不是說突發奇想我想這部分我 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
11257.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
11277.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
我們個人就是今晚會議的意見人家那個說明很清楚我可不可以請局長做個簡單的補充請局長做一下補充說明跟委員報告就是有關違法吸金要不要這個刑度要不要增加的部分但這個涉及到刑事政策的部分但我們要說明的是因為違法吸金我們委員提案是在29條之一29條之一本身它是29條的擬制擴大 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
11280.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
11301.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
如果說今天只單就29條之一擬製擴大部分加重其形但反而會忽略到29條本身本型的部分沒有去動到這是第一點第二點 針對地下匯兌部分剛才委員所講的那兩個極端案例但事實上都會對金融秩序的維護都會涉及到一點兩個案例同時都違反到了洗錢沒有辦法申報 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
11302.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
11320.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
外匯交易的管控沒有辦法納入國家整體外匯管制的一個措施裡面去做衡量那這個部分呢就會涉及到整個國家社會法益跟國家法益的部分的考量所以我們認為在匯兌的部分呢還是應該維持原來的好 所以你們希望在匯兌的部分維持原來這樣子啦這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
11322.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
11351.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
我希望是因為如果有我們現在從個案的角度出發有很多是特殊的狀況但你不能只看兩個極端個案就如同剛剛這個局長跟主委做的報告我們是不是請金管會做一點功課就是說把這一連串的地下會對的各種樣態然後挑幾個比較有代表性的案例我們再來做一個比較細緻的研討然後我們思考從這個地方去思考說法規上有沒有比較完善的空間就不要說錯也不要講錯殺他本來就犯不對的行為但是不要用 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
11351.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
11376.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
法律上很高但是用減刑的方式為這個違罪來做處理的這個狀況看有沒有辦法透過修法的方式來解決如果這些案例經過完整的研討之後還沒有一個很好的那也許維持原案是一個最好的做法這個本席完全願意尊重但是我覺得吸盡的部分是不是要佐以提升當然你講他這是以收受存款論嘛所以你本行不動去動那個很奇怪但是我會憑良心講民意代表代表的是社會對於 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
11378.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
11404.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
這個司法的期待嘛社會對於公平正義對於治安維護的一個期待所以如果都掉在那個很教條的法條裡面來講恐怕不見得能夠符合社會的氛圍現在就亂世要用重點嘛大家都希望言行俱訪大家就希望打擊各種形態的詐騙所以我也希望啊今晚會這邊用開放的心態針對違法信念的部分要不要加重罰則就特別是這種吸睛行為一併來做處理好不好那我們就拜託主席我們再多花一點時間做研討今天就暫不處理可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
11405.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
11423.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
好 謝謝牛許廷委員的建議也請金管會慎重做出參考 針對不同的型態具體做研議接下來請林倩琦委員 林倩琦委員不在楊瓊英委員 楊瓊英委員不在蘇清泉委員 蘇清泉委員不在 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
11429.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
11452.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
鄭振前委員 鄭振前委員 鄭振前委員不在葉元之委員 葉元之委員 葉元之委員不在接下來請羅明才委員質詢主席 個人處理的習慣應當 主席可不可以請彭主委好 請彭主委委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
11460.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
11483.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
這個金融大家都很關心那現在詐騙很多究竟你們掌握的手中的太陽有大概幾種那這一年來這個貴單位打擊犯罪特別是在這個詐騙方面你們的案例有多少金額又是多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
11484.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
11508.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
我想跟委員報告因為這個金管會只是在整個國家這個打詐裡面的負責金融金流主詐的這一塊那當然所有的樣態大概警政署的那個上面都有清楚的公佈我們剛才幾個委員也關切裡面從金額最大應該是所謂的投資詐騙再來就是購物詐騙 交友詐騙大概是這樣的形態 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
11510.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
11526.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
請問投資的話大概金額是多少投資的話剛才有提到就是那個比重是因為投資上次那個警政署的報告裡面他有提到就是投資通常就是他有個很大的特質就是當這個受騙當事人發現的時候都經過一段很長的時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
11528.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
11546.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
而且他們通常匯款的或是交付款項的期間都很長等到他開始金絕以後通常來講這個金額都很大再來就是而且金流的部分大概都已經都已經經過很久的時間要追償所以他金額很大件數可能不用很多但是金額就會佔比比較高 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
11547.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
11575.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
所以大致講起來這次詐騙的過程當中有沒有可能會出現五百塊或一千塊或者是五萬十萬這樣的案例多不多其實如果按照總金額來看剛才投資詐騙的金額平均的這個詳細數字我不記得不過檢診所上面他有統計確實每個單件案子的那個金額是蠻高但是購物詐騙那些就相對比較微小其他的部分就比較小 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
11576.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
11603.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
全民打詐 當然是全民一起來可是卑躬攝影造成人心惶惶特別是很多的民眾去銀行臨櫃的時候發現我的帳戶為什麼不能用這樣凍結的帳戶目前有幾戶其實我們應該是這是個別銀行在做其實上我們大概現在數據我們沒有確切的掌握我們可能再去了解一下再跟委員報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
11604.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
11624.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
這差很多我覺得大概20年前因為它是一個動態的狀況它隨時可能都會變動這樣動態 那去昨天就不算動態因為昨天你過那昨天有沒有這樣的統計數字因為我們在20年前大家想想看那時候生活過了四海生平 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
11625.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
11647.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
從來不會想像說人民自己的財產突然有一天你去臨櫃領錢的時候我的帳戶不能用被凍結很多老人家遇到這樣的情況很害怕因為他等一下要去看醫生手上剛好沒有錢或者是子女學費明天要繳學費突然去ATM轉帳帳戶被凍結 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
11651.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
11668.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
所以當這個情況非常嚴格或者說很謹慎全部從這個地方開始動起來的時候造成相對的影響請問這樣子大概被影響的人有多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
11669.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
11686.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
我想說這部分我這邊沒有具體的數據啦當然是因為是每家銀行個別狀況的不同那情況多不多啊這個情況如果從個案數來講是應該是不少不少 對但是因為從個案數但是如果從我們整個整個總帳戶的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
11689.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
11717.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
來看是比例是很低啦我們總共有2億多個帳戶對不對 全國那實際上每次這樣一個比例來講可能是幾百幾千戶我想這部分可能我們會我們未來強力的要求銀行一定要做到精準是 這個就是一個拿捏啦過猶不及啦你這個大動作的下去剛剛就是數百數千影響的就是數千人這影響也說不可謂不大 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
11717.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
11741.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
就你碰到的時候缺錢的當下缺錢的人他就覺得覺得很害怕覺得很惶恐因為20年前沒有發生這樣的情況所以是不是主委這邊可以想一下怎麼樣來找到一個平衡點其實我們最起碼民眾 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
11742.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
11771.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
他在用他自己的帳戶的時候他是人民私人的財產你突然就把他凍結掉他覺得有時候真的是很不便利而且會覺得有一種這個帳戶凍結的症候群一想到碰到就會怕怕的啊那還有一個問題就是現在究竟使用現金的情況跟以前你們有沒有做個比較 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
11772.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
11799.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
其實我們可以看到那個透過那個非現金的那個交易的比數是越來越比重越來越高大概比率是多少我們上次有超過好像是60億還80億筆的資料就是說這個交易就是說我們現在國人使用非現金的比重確實在快速的增加中可不可以說你們要加強管理這個是我是贊成的那你加強管理你可以用AI |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
11802.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
11817.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
不要變成說是全面性的讓大家感到人人自危你可以用你AI智慧的辦法去做金管會現在有沒有啟動 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
11818.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
11836.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
AI的行動其實我們在根文報告我們那個金融科技聯盟裡面本來就有一個專門利用AI來做這些相關的處理的那現在他們已經有一些具體的作為跟呈現那是跨金融機構之間的作為效果好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
11837.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
11861.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
效果當然是都在測試中因為民眾對這個要求很高就是民眾幾乎是要零誤差我想這個所有的AI模型不可能做到這種程度但是我們講說我們做不好值得檢討 這沒什麼藉口但是就是說我們一定把它做到我們能力能做得最好現在到處都進入一個AI的世界剛剛主委也講 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
11862.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
11889.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
金管會也啟動相關AI的智慧的推動另外一方面有人說美國一些報導說現在高科技這些像AI周邊的股價估值有點過高不曉得主委你的看法怎麼樣我想市場的意見本來就很多元這個部分也很多的分析我想我們都 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
11890.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
11915.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
也都會關注到各式各樣的論點但是我們從金管會角度我們本來就是把這種任何的不確定因素都視為我們日常所要關注的點各種的說法都有那各種的論證我覺得這些東西都是需要我們來關注的地方那會不會過高呢這個我剛才講過各種的看法都有因為好 那這樣子我們相反的來看一下國內的一些傳產股 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
11917.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
11924.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
現在有一些雞蛋水焦骨甚至一些傳產表現非常差那主委你會覺得他們的估值過低 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
11925.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
11951.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
其實我不是估值專家我們做市場上面會有他自己的看法我想這部分我們站在金管會我不會去預測哪一家估值過高過低因為我們也不是投資分析師所以我們是在意市場的資訊能不能充分的揭露整個交易的制度是否公平對所有的交易人是否維持一個穩健而且是公開透明的資本市場現在看到國內 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
11952.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
11975.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
上市上過1850家左右的公司有多少間是超過1000塊的我沒有這個數字從過去的4000斤變8000斤現在好像一直持續在成長我們看到過去張振山他當任局長有為有首大概是幾年的時間差不多5年5年了 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
11979.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
11997.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
我看著他 他當那個政情局的局長股票從1萬變2萬點2萬點即將要翻越3萬點的時候主委 他是發生什麼事你怎麼把他換掉呢不是換掉 他就身體退休我們接種他去另外一個單位擔任負責人 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
11999.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12012.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
那它是有你是意思說它是高升還是民生暗降不是還是被頂關其實我們它它現在去擔任一個非常重要的職務 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12014.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12041.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
那什麼原因過去呢這個當然就是我們尊重各醫院還有就是整個的我們對於人力配置的規劃因為太突然了也不會我們這邊朝夕相處常常會遇到習以為常就是質詢 見面突然那一座山就不見了張震山這一座山不見會影響到我們股市的其他山我們還有新任的局長也是非常優秀新任局長是誰 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12042.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12070.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
我們的高金平高局長高金平那你對他有什麼期許金金亮亮希望股市平平安謝謝委員指導好那局長你現在擔任局長你對我們這個台灣的證券有什麼期許 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12072.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12094.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
講幾句吧 訓練的大家都很好奇當然就是證券市場首重的就是資訊透明我們大概持續為強化資訊的透明然後提升公司的治理剛剛在我們主委大概11月份有推出請我們兩個交易所推出這個亞洲籌資創新平台這個部分我們會陸力來推 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12095.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12120.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
那剛剛委員質詢到除了我們有台積電這個護國群山以外那我們也希望中小企業也能夠在我們這個板塊裡面都被看見那我們整個股票的市場能夠蓬勃的發展 以上我們希望說平平安安 健健康康股市的發展可以翻越另外一座山每次兩萬七 兩萬八現在都卡在那邊現在的局長 你是那個嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12124.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12147.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
高金平高局長希望你平平安然後步步高股市有沒有機會破三萬點我想這我待會回答啦就是因為講過很多次金管會不會對未來做預測好那如果有一天突然破三萬點健不健康那個委員就會要兌現你的承諾啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12150.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
12167.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
就是珍奶加雞排啊三萬點還要另外再增加啦再加個巧克力好了祝你越來越美麗股市越來越亮麗謝謝謝謝委員好 謝謝樓邊財委員好 也請那個高局長加油OK好 我們今日登記發言人均已詢答完畢那 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
12179.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
12195.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
我們本次會議做如下的決議我們說明集詢答完畢委員質詢未及答覆或請補充資訊請經管會於一週內已書面答覆委員另要求期限者從期鎖定 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
12196.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
12211.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
委員邱志偉所提書面質詢列入紀錄刊登公報並請金融管理委員會以書面答覆銀行法第125條及125條知識條文修正草案等兩案門令則其審理 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
12214.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
12229.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
本次會議議程已進行完畢堂友不在場委員補題書面質詢一併列入紀錄刊登公報並請議事人員協助處理我們今日會議到此本期宣布散會好 謝謝大家 |