iVOD / 170852
本逐字稿內容由 AI 自動生成，可能包含錯誤、遺漏或誤譯之處。請使用者務必與原始影片音訊內容交叉比對，以確保資訊正確性。另可參考立法院日後釋出的正式公報以取得最終權威版本。
陳昭姿 @ 第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第22次全體委員會議
| Start Time | End Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00:00,000 | 00:00:06,000 | 謝謝主席 |
| 00:00:06,000 | 00:00:07,000 | 有請部長 |
| 00:00:07,000 | 00:00:09,000 | 請時部長 |
| 00:00:09,000 | 00:00:12,000 | 陳委員好 |
| 00:00:12,000 | 00:00:15,000 | 部長您今天已經被質詢大概5個小時了 |
| 00:00:15,000 | 00:00:17,000 | 本來我也準備很多資料 |
| 00:00:17,000 | 00:00:19,000 | 但是當中我也盡量去了解 |
| 00:00:19,000 | 00:00:20,000 | 我盡量不重複 |
| 00:00:20,000 | 00:00:24,000 | 那我用可能用稍微修正的方式來跟你討論 |
| 00:00:24,000 | 00:00:26,000 | 就是今天我想跟你分享的部分 |
| 00:00:26,000 | 00:00:28,000 | 部長因為您一開始就是說 |
| 00:00:28,000 | 00:00:30,000 | 不了解別人的邏輯在哪裡 |
| 00:00:30,000 | 00:00:33,000 | 當他們在追究台糖的時候 |
| 00:00:33,000 | 00:00:34,000 | 高市府的時候 |
| 00:00:34,000 | 00:00:36,000 | 所以部長您最自信的邏輯 |
| 00:00:36,000 | 00:00:38,000 | 今天被很多人挑戰 |
| 00:00:38,000 | 00:00:40,000 | 因為你說了 |
| 00:00:40,000 | 00:00:42,000 | 等於你在指責別人沒有邏輯 |
| 00:00:42,000 | 00:00:44,000 | 所以你說要強烈的挑戰 |
| 00:00:44,000 | 00:00:46,000 | 那部長我請教你 |
| 00:00:46,000 | 00:00:48,000 | 我們現在全台灣人都知道了 |
| 00:00:48,000 | 00:00:51,000 | 台糖不但是最早知道的 |
| 00:00:51,000 | 00:00:53,000 | 有這麼一件事也許更早就有 |
| 00:00:53,000 | 00:00:54,000 | 我們不知道 |
| 00:00:54,000 | 00:00:56,000 | 但是我們已知他最早知道 |
| 00:00:56,000 | 00:00:58,000 | 有這個Bandle Piring超標 |
| 00:00:58,000 | 00:01:00,000 | 而且是最高的 |
| 00:01:00,000 | 00:01:02,000 | 就是最嚴重的超標的 |
| 00:01:02,000 | 00:01:04,000 | 就是台糖掌握這個數字 |
| 00:01:04,000 | 00:01:06,000 | 而且時間最早 |
| 00:01:06,000 | 00:01:08,000 | 那這個時候你是食藥署內部 |
| 00:01:08,000 | 00:01:09,000 | 很多事要做 |
| 00:01:09,000 | 00:01:11,000 | 衛福部事情很多要做 |
| 00:01:11,000 | 00:01:15,000 | 你卻去幫這個經濟部跟你 |
| 00:01:15,000 | 00:01:18,000 | 卻去幫這個想辦法幫台糖辯解 |
| 00:01:18,000 | 00:01:21,000 | 所以這個部分我覺得是 |
| 00:01:21,000 | 00:01:23,000 | 我才是不理解的地方 |
| 00:01:23,000 | 00:01:25,000 | 你自己的事家裡出戶 |
| 00:01:25,000 | 00:01:28,000 | 就是火災了你都還沒有處理好 |
| 00:01:28,000 | 00:01:30,000 | 你就急著去幫台糖辯解 |
| 00:01:30,000 | 00:01:31,000 | 還說什麼乖寶寶 |
| 00:01:31,000 | 00:01:33,000 | 這是第一個我覺得 |
| 00:01:33,000 | 00:01:35,000 | 你是不應該做的部分 |
| 00:01:35,000 | 00:01:38,000 | 那第二個我想就是說 |
| 00:01:38,000 | 00:01:40,000 | 跟部長分享的就是說 |
| 00:01:40,000 | 00:01:42,000 | 沒有錯台聯當台中聯對不起 |
| 00:01:42,000 | 00:01:45,000 | 當中聯收到這個台糖的通知 |
| 00:01:45,000 | 00:01:48,000 | 他不管怎麼樣他都得通報 |
| 00:01:48,000 | 00:01:50,000 | 他如果不通報他也有責任 |
| 00:01:50,000 | 00:01:52,000 | 他通報了他當然基本上 |
| 00:01:52,000 | 00:01:54,000 | 就是承擔這些事情 |
| 00:01:54,000 | 00:01:56,000 | 可是台糖身為國營事業 |
| 00:01:56,000 | 00:01:57,000 | 你好好想我講的話 |
| 00:01:57,000 | 00:02:02,000 | 國營事業納稅人支持這個國營事業 |
| 00:02:02,000 | 00:02:03,000 | 他對於食安政策的配合 |
| 00:02:03,000 | 00:02:05,000 | 只剩下說只要我沒有買進來 |
| 00:02:05,000 | 00:02:09,000 | 我拒絕買進我知道 |
| 00:02:09,000 | 00:02:12,000 | 那他的責任就只剩下這裡嗎 |
| 00:02:12,000 | 00:02:13,000 | 部長我告訴你 |
| 00:02:13,000 | 00:02:15,000 | 我覺得這個公司是白人孩子死不了 |
| 00:02:15,000 | 00:02:17,000 | 你看到一個人溺水了 |
| 00:02:17,000 | 00:02:18,000 | 就算你不打算親自救他 |
| 00:02:18,000 | 00:02:19,000 | 也許有風險 |
| 00:02:19,000 | 00:02:21,000 | 那你連個通報都沒有嗎 |
| 00:02:21,000 | 00:02:24,000 | 柏定剛剛有很多人跟你談法條部分 |
| 00:02:24,000 | 00:02:25,000 | 我都聽到了 |
| 00:02:25,000 | 00:02:27,000 | 那你也跟他爭辯這個法條的部分 |
| 00:02:27,000 | 00:02:29,000 | 他很多有法學基礎的 |
| 00:02:29,000 | 00:02:30,000 | 跟你講說 |
| 00:02:30,000 | 00:02:32,000 | 反正一個法條各自解釋 |
| 00:02:32,000 | 00:02:33,000 | 這個部分我就不談了 |
| 00:02:33,000 | 00:02:35,000 | 可是身為一個部長 |
| 00:02:35,000 | 00:02:39,000 | 如果你還在執著於這個法律文字 |
| 00:02:39,000 | 00:02:41,000 | 說我沒有違法 |
| 00:02:41,000 | 00:02:43,000 | 柏定這個格局太低了 |
| 00:02:43,000 | 00:02:45,000 | 就身為部長 |
| 00:02:45,000 | 00:02:47,000 | 您的格局應該是要更高 |
| 00:02:47,000 | 00:02:50,000 | 而不是在說檢視我犯了哪一條法律 |
| 00:02:50,000 | 00:02:53,000 | 我們知道法律都是一切責任的最低標準 |
| 00:02:53,000 | 00:02:55,000 | 所以就即使法律有不足的地方 |
| 00:02:55,000 | 00:02:58,000 | 我是覺得你應該要勇敢的承擔 |
| 00:02:58,000 | 00:03:00,000 | 而且做往對的方向去做 |
| 00:03:00,000 | 00:03:03,000 | 這是我要想跟柏定你分享的 |
| 00:03:03,000 | 00:03:07,000 | 那柏定剛剛我也不知道有沒有人談起 |
| 00:03:07,000 | 00:03:08,000 | 其實是食藥署 |
| 00:03:08,000 | 00:03:10,000 | 食藥署自己公布的 |
| 00:03:10,000 | 00:03:13,000 | 2024年小林治藥洪渠案 |
| 00:03:13,000 | 00:03:16,000 | 他發布的新聞稿非常清楚指出 |
| 00:03:16,000 | 00:03:19,000 | 食品業者一發現原料或產品 |
| 00:03:19,000 | 00:03:21,000 | 都不要再爭論這個事情了 |
| 00:03:21,000 | 00:03:22,000 | 原料或產品 |
| 00:03:22,000 | 00:03:23,000 | 有完善衛生安全之餘 |
| 00:03:23,000 | 00:03:27,000 | 時應該主動停止製造加工販賣及辦理 |
| 00:03:27,000 | 00:03:30,000 | 回收並通報直轄市縣市政府主管機關 |
| 00:03:30,000 | 00:03:33,000 | 而反則依食安法第47條第二款處 |
| 00:03:33,000 | 00:03:36,000 | 新台幣三萬以上三百萬以下的罰款 |
| 00:03:36,000 | 00:03:37,000 | 食藥署還重申 |
| 00:03:37,000 | 00:03:40,000 | 藉由嚴格把關源頭是原料安全 |
| 00:03:40,000 | 00:03:44,000 | 並透過政府及業者攜手守護食安 |
| 00:03:44,000 | 00:03:48,000 | 堅決遏制不法的行為 |
| 00:03:48,000 | 00:03:50,000 | 這個是食藥署自己發的新聞 |
| 00:03:50,000 | 00:03:54,000 | 你要談法律我們也可以談他們自己講的話 |
| 00:03:54,000 | 00:03:57,000 | 所以台長作為一個食品業者 |
| 00:03:57,000 | 00:03:59,000 | 而且還是國營事業 |
| 00:03:59,000 | 00:04:02,000 | 那就是說發現原本要採購的東西 |
| 00:04:02,000 | 00:04:04,000 | 那這個就是所謂的 |
| 00:04:04,000 | 00:04:06,000 | 不管是脫膠出油脫膠油脂 |
| 00:04:06,000 | 00:04:07,000 | 這樣的原料 |
| 00:04:07,000 | 00:04:10,000 | 有超標的Bandle Piring |
| 00:04:10,000 | 00:04:11,000 | 只要沒有收穫 |
| 00:04:11,000 | 00:04:14,000 | 他就不用向衛生局溝通閉起眼睛 |
| 00:04:14,000 | 00:04:16,000 | 我不管我閉起來因為我沒有買 |
| 00:04:16,000 | 00:04:19,000 | 所以不管這個中聯將來送到哪裡去我都不管 |
| 00:04:19,000 | 00:04:21,000 | 那這也是您的態度嗎 |
| 00:04:21,000 | 00:04:24,000 | 您覺得您要支持這樣的態度嗎 |
| 00:04:24,000 | 00:04:25,000 | 好 |
| 00:04:25,000 | 00:04:27,000 | 態度就是說您的態度也是這樣嗎 |
| 00:04:27,000 | 00:04:30,000 | 我想委員也很瞭解我一向的態度 |
| 00:04:30,000 | 00:04:32,000 | 我不太用政治語言 |
| 00:04:32,000 | 00:04:35,000 | 我們一切就事論事以法論法 |
| 00:04:35,000 | 00:04:36,000 | 我剛剛談的幾乎沒有政治語言就是說 |
| 00:04:36,000 | 00:04:37,000 | 所以我很 |
| 00:04:37,000 | 00:04:39,000 | 你知道出事嗎 |
| 00:04:39,000 | 00:04:40,000 | 那你這個嗎 |
| 00:04:40,000 | 00:04:41,000 | 我不管了隨他去 |
| 00:04:41,000 | 00:04:43,000 | 大家對於這樣的一個國營事業 |
| 00:04:43,000 | 00:04:45,000 | 應該要有更高的 |
| 00:04:45,000 | 00:04:48,000 | 賦予他的任務或者是社會的責任 |
| 00:04:48,000 | 00:04:50,000 | 這個我都尊重 |
| 00:04:50,000 | 00:04:51,000 | 我也都瞭解 |
| 00:04:51,000 | 00:04:53,000 | 那但是面對這件事情 |
| 00:04:53,000 | 00:04:55,000 | 我們還是要把它理清楚 |
| 00:04:55,000 | 00:04:59,000 | 這個油最早是南僑在5月13號 |
| 00:04:59,000 | 00:05:01,000 | 驗的是食品油 |
| 00:05:01,000 | 00:05:04,000 | 他已經是成品的食品油 |
| 00:05:04,000 | 00:05:08,000 | 那麼台旁在5月15號所驗的 |
| 00:05:08,000 | 00:05:10,000 | 他是脫膠原油 |
| 00:05:10,000 | 00:05:12,000 | 他是中間的錯誤 |
| 00:05:12,000 | 00:05:14,000 | 他不是脫膠原油 |
| 00:05:14,000 | 00:05:16,000 | 我們所定的 |
| 00:05:16,000 | 00:05:18,000 | 對所以我們定的標準 |
| 00:05:18,000 | 00:05:20,000 | 是定在最終的這個 |
| 00:05:20,000 | 00:05:22,000 | 食用油品的部分的本篇 |
| 00:05:22,000 | 00:05:24,000 | 我想要知道你的態度 |
| 00:05:24,000 | 00:05:26,000 | 那當然如果這個大家認為說 |
| 00:05:26,000 | 00:05:28,000 | 那中間的任何一段的 |
| 00:05:28,000 | 00:05:30,000 | 中間的半成品 |
| 00:05:30,000 | 00:05:32,000 | 都要定標準 |
| 00:05:32,000 | 00:05:33,000 | 都要來通報 |
| 00:05:33,000 | 00:05:34,000 | 那這個我們可以討論 |
| 00:05:34,000 | 00:05:36,000 | 你還在講法的程度 |
| 00:05:36,000 | 00:05:37,000 | 林靜儀次長都說是 |
| 00:05:37,000 | 00:05:39,000 | 出油半成品原料了 |
| 00:05:39,000 | 00:05:40,000 | 那什麼不叫原料 |
| 00:05:40,000 | 00:05:41,000 | 這個才 |
| 00:05:41,000 | 00:05:42,000 | 哪有什麼東西 |
| 00:05:42,000 | 00:05:44,000 | 這不叫原料什麼叫原料呢 |
| 00:05:44,000 | 00:05:45,000 | 那如果我也不認為說 |
| 00:05:45,000 | 00:05:47,000 | 我沒修獲去修獲 |
| 00:05:47,000 | 00:05:48,000 | 那就沒有責任的話 |
| 00:05:48,000 | 00:05:50,000 | 台湯就沒有責任跟義務的話 |
| 00:05:50,000 | 00:05:51,000 | 我可以閉著眼睛 |
| 00:05:51,000 | 00:05:53,000 | 不去想說這個後來往哪裡去 |
| 00:05:53,000 | 00:05:54,000 | 那我只想知道 |
| 00:05:54,000 | 00:05:55,000 | 您的態度是這樣 |
| 00:05:55,000 | 00:05:57,000 | 你支持這個做法嗎 |
| 00:05:57,000 | 00:05:59,000 | 你支持個人至少門前選嗎 |
| 00:05:59,000 | 00:06:00,000 | 當然我們希望 |
| 00:06:00,000 | 00:06:01,000 | 我剛剛一直在講 |
| 00:06:01,000 | 00:06:02,000 | 民眾也只可以 |
| 00:06:02,000 | 00:06:03,000 | 但是部長您 |
| 00:06:03,000 | 00:06:05,000 | 對食安我們是希望全民來監督 |
| 00:06:05,000 | 00:06:07,000 | 全民來監督食安 |
| 00:06:07,000 | 00:06:09,000 | 不論是業者 |
| 00:06:09,000 | 00:06:10,000 | 哪一個層級的業者 |
| 00:06:10,000 | 00:06:12,000 | 不論是民眾 |
| 00:06:12,000 | 00:06:13,000 | 只要對這個食品 |
| 00:06:13,000 | 00:06:17,000 | 有這個健康安全疑慮的來通報 |
| 00:06:17,000 | 00:06:18,000 | 我們都鼓勵 |
| 00:06:18,000 | 00:06:19,000 | 我們都鼓勵的 |
| 00:06:19,000 | 00:06:21,000 | 你知道這個Bandle Pyrine |
| 00:06:21,000 | 00:06:22,000 | 它是在實驗室裡 |
| 00:06:22,000 | 00:06:24,000 | 會把它打到老鼠身上 |
| 00:06:24,000 | 00:06:25,000 | 然後這樣去測試 |
| 00:06:25,000 | 00:06:26,000 | 我們未來可能的性要 |
| 00:06:26,000 | 00:06:27,000 | 它的這個療效 |
| 00:06:27,000 | 00:06:29,000 | 你知道它是這樣子來做 |
| 00:06:29,000 | 00:06:30,000 | 所以後來我們發現 |
| 00:06:30,000 | 00:06:31,000 | 它是一級的致癌物 |
| 00:06:31,000 | 00:06:32,000 | 就是動物跟人體 |
| 00:06:32,000 | 00:06:34,000 | 都會引起致癌物 |
| 00:06:34,000 | 00:06:36,000 | 所以這個超標的這個油 |
| 00:06:36,000 | 00:06:38,000 | 如果放在寵物飼料裡面 |
| 00:06:38,000 | 00:06:40,000 | 這些貓狗跟動物也是吃下 |
| 00:06:40,000 | 00:06:42,000 | 同樣吃下這個一級致癌物 |
| 00:06:42,000 | 00:06:43,000 | 那請問衛福部的邏輯 |
| 00:06:43,000 | 00:06:44,000 | 我在請教你邏輯 |
| 00:06:44,000 | 00:06:46,000 | 只要沒有變成人吃的東西 |
| 00:06:46,000 | 00:06:48,000 | 就算就跟衛福部無關嗎 |
| 00:06:48,000 | 00:06:51,000 | 如果它出貨也給飼料廠使用 |
| 00:06:51,000 | 00:06:53,000 | 這個是人皆知道的事實 |
| 00:06:53,000 | 00:06:54,000 | 它事實上也繼續賣 |
| 00:06:54,000 | 00:06:56,000 | 我們今天都還不敢去談這個 |
| 00:06:56,000 | 00:06:57,000 | 怕事情鬧得更大 |
| 00:06:57,000 | 00:06:58,000 | 不是只有人 |
| 00:06:58,000 | 00:06:59,000 | 還有寵物問題 |
| 00:06:59,000 | 00:07:01,000 | 那我要講的是說 |
| 00:07:01,000 | 00:07:03,000 | 台糖聚收油品 |
| 00:07:03,000 | 00:07:05,000 | 所以沒有強制通報責任 |
| 00:07:05,000 | 00:07:06,000 | 那剛剛我也提到了 |
| 00:07:06,000 | 00:07:07,000 | 國營事業 |
| 00:07:07,000 | 00:07:09,000 | 你知道我們人不是只有談法律嗎 |
| 00:07:09,000 | 00:07:11,000 | 剛才所以我在期許部長 |
| 00:07:11,000 | 00:07:12,000 | 我們不是在說 |
| 00:07:12,000 | 00:07:13,000 | 我們有違法沒違法 |
| 00:07:13,000 | 00:07:15,000 | 我們有基本的良知跟道義 |
| 00:07:15,000 | 00:07:17,000 | 大家現在生氣說 |
| 00:07:17,000 | 00:07:18,000 | 台糖你知道了 |
| 00:07:18,000 | 00:07:20,000 | 你明明知道有超標 |
| 00:07:20,000 | 00:07:21,000 | 而且超標嚴重 |
| 00:07:21,000 | 00:07:23,000 | 七倍多 |
| 00:07:23,000 | 00:07:25,000 | 但我沒拿來用就沒關係 |
| 00:07:25,000 | 00:07:28,000 | 那後續怎麼處理也沒關係 |
| 00:07:28,000 | 00:07:31,000 | 就算出貨給飼料廠也沒關係 |
| 00:07:31,000 | 00:07:33,000 | 部長我要跟你講的是 |
| 00:07:33,000 | 00:07:35,000 | 黃豆製油這個過程 |
| 00:07:35,000 | 00:07:37,000 | 大概炸出兩成油 |
| 00:07:37,000 | 00:07:39,000 | 還有八成是做所謂的 |
| 00:07:39,000 | 00:07:41,000 | 叫做豆腐 |
| 00:07:41,000 | 00:07:43,000 | 這個豆腐是給誰吃呢 |
| 00:07:43,000 | 00:07:45,000 | 給雞給豬吃 |
| 00:07:45,000 | 00:07:47,000 | 所以當黃豆原料出了問題的時候 |
| 00:07:47,000 | 00:07:51,000 | 不僅僅是油本身可能超標自來物 |
| 00:07:51,000 | 00:07:54,000 | 現在還有我們雞豬吃了也超標 |
| 00:07:54,000 | 00:07:56,000 | 那就是等於已經動到 |
| 00:07:56,000 | 00:07:59,000 | 我們整個食物鏈的上層去了 |
| 00:07:59,000 | 00:08:00,000 | 也許那是農業不管的 |
| 00:08:00,000 | 00:08:01,000 | 但是上次整個影響 |
| 00:08:01,000 | 00:08:03,000 | 我想部長你不會不了解 |
| 00:08:03,000 | 00:08:04,000 | 所以事實上說 |
| 00:08:04,000 | 00:08:08,000 | 如果說你們現在要護航台糖 |
| 00:08:08,000 | 00:08:11,000 | 明知嚴重超標但是沒有通報 |
| 00:08:11,000 | 00:08:12,000 | 它影響的層面 |
| 00:08:12,000 | 00:08:13,000 | 我今天告訴你 |
| 00:08:13,000 | 00:08:14,000 | 所有的事物 |
| 00:08:14,000 | 00:08:16,000 | 還有我們常吃的食物 |
| 00:08:16,000 | 00:08:19,000 | 家禽家畜全部也都會吃到 |
| 00:08:19,000 | 00:08:20,000 | 所以我覺得如果有這個態度 |
| 00:08:20,000 | 00:08:21,000 | 是很難原諒 |
| 00:08:21,000 | 00:08:23,000 | 幾乎是不可原諒 |
| 00:08:23,000 | 00:08:24,000 | 不然就是這樣 |
| 00:08:24,000 | 00:08:25,000 | 我第一次質詢的時候 |
| 00:08:25,000 | 00:08:27,000 | 你是先推給南僑 |
| 00:08:27,000 | 00:08:29,000 | 那後來我一直提醒你是中聯 |
| 00:08:29,000 | 00:08:30,000 | 同樣一批樣油 |
| 00:08:30,000 | 00:08:33,000 | 這個油樣它減出三種數字 |
| 00:08:33,000 | 00:08:35,000 | 後來果然中聯就出事了 |
| 00:08:35,000 | 00:08:36,000 | 現在再回到說 |
| 00:08:36,000 | 00:08:37,000 | 我們再回到說 |
| 00:08:37,000 | 00:08:38,000 | 最早知道的 |
| 00:08:38,000 | 00:08:41,000 | 最嚴重的數字是最嚴重的 |
| 00:08:41,000 | 00:08:44,000 | 結果你這急著幫我們護航 |
| 00:08:44,000 | 00:08:47,000 | 部長其實是這幾道問題 |
| 00:08:47,000 | 00:08:50,000 | 您的邏輯跟你的做法出了 |
| 00:08:50,000 | 00:08:51,000 | 態度出問題 |
| 00:08:51,000 | 00:08:53,000 | 我很高興委員 |
| 00:08:53,000 | 00:08:55,000 | 我們回到科學的討論 |
| 00:08:55,000 | 00:08:58,000 | 這個本篇筆本身大家都知道 |
| 00:08:58,000 | 00:08:59,000 | 它是一級致癌物 |
| 00:08:59,000 | 00:09:01,000 | 那麼它的致癌的風險 |
| 00:09:01,000 | 00:09:03,000 | 來自於長期的累積 |
| 00:09:03,000 | 00:09:06,000 | 所以跟你的食用的習慣 |
| 00:09:06,000 | 00:09:08,000 | 跟累積有關係 |
| 00:09:08,000 | 00:09:10,000 | 它這是一個長期的積蓄 |
| 00:09:10,000 | 00:09:12,000 | 這是第一個 |
| 00:09:12,000 | 00:09:14,000 | 那第二個現在全世界 |
| 00:09:14,000 | 00:09:17,000 | 定有本篇筆標準的國家 |
| 00:09:17,000 | 00:09:19,000 | 不是全部 |
| 00:09:19,000 | 00:09:20,000 | 長期的累積 |
| 00:09:20,000 | 00:09:21,000 | 你一次食物可以 |
| 00:09:21,000 | 00:09:24,000 | 你那個添加物這個蘇丹紅可以 |
| 00:09:24,000 | 00:09:25,000 | 這個油不要吃多久 |
| 00:09:25,000 | 00:09:27,000 | 而且是全面的 |
| 00:09:27,000 | 00:09:29,000 | 所以這個都有科學模式可以計算 |
| 00:09:29,000 | 00:09:30,000 | 部長講說你們逼我們吃油 |
| 00:09:30,000 | 00:09:32,000 | 有你有逼我們吃油 |
| 00:09:32,000 | 00:09:34,000 | 沒有吃油是會死的 |
| 00:09:34,000 | 00:09:36,000 | 油是人體脾的脾素 |
| 00:09:36,000 | 00:09:38,000 | 油蛋白質腸類 |
| 00:09:38,000 | 00:09:39,000 | 這個本篇筆 |
| 00:09:39,000 | 00:09:41,000 | 不是每個國家都定有標準 |
| 00:09:41,000 | 00:09:43,000 | 有的國家是沒有標準 |
| 00:09:43,000 | 00:09:44,000 | 你那句話要很小心 |
| 00:09:44,000 | 00:09:47,000 | 像日本像美國都沒有定標準的 |
| 00:09:47,000 | 00:09:49,000 | 我們定了跟歐盟一樣 |
| 00:09:49,000 | 00:09:51,000 | 全世界最嚴格的標準 |
| 00:09:51,000 | 00:09:52,000 | 這是第一個 |
| 00:09:52,000 | 00:09:55,000 | 第二個在飼料中有沒有這個標準 |
| 00:09:55,000 | 00:09:56,000 | 到目前我們還查不到 |
| 00:09:56,000 | 00:09:59,000 | 是在飼料裡面去定這個標準 |
| 00:09:59,000 | 00:10:00,000 | 所以我們了解 |
| 00:10:00,000 | 00:10:03,000 | 它是一個一級的致癌物 |
| 00:10:03,000 | 00:10:05,000 | 是說它的證據明顯 |
| 00:10:05,000 | 00:10:07,000 | 會有健康的危害 |
| 00:10:07,000 | 00:10:10,000 | 但是要定到多少的標準 |
| 00:10:10,000 | 00:10:12,000 | 要定到多少的標準 |
| 00:10:12,000 | 00:10:14,000 | 從動物的身上 |
| 00:10:14,000 | 00:10:16,000 | 要去做研究 |
| 00:10:16,000 | 00:10:17,000 | 它有 |
| 00:10:17,000 | 00:10:19,000 | 但是它的標準要定在哪裡 |
| 00:10:19,000 | 00:10:21,000 | 到目前還沒有標準 |
| 00:10:21,000 | 00:10:23,000 | 但是這件事唯一這件事情 |
| 00:10:23,000 | 00:10:24,000 | 您不能再說 |
| 00:10:24,000 | 00:10:27,000 | 要累積大量才可能去 |
| 00:10:27,000 | 00:10:28,000 | 我不是說要累積大量 |
| 00:10:28,000 | 00:10:31,000 | 我說我跟您討論科學 |
| 00:10:31,000 | 00:10:32,000 | 從科學上來看 |
| 00:10:32,000 | 00:10:33,000 | 我也在討論科學 |
| 00:10:33,000 | 00:10:35,000 | 它是長期累積 |
| 00:10:35,000 | 00:10:37,000 | 因為它必須要 |
| 00:10:37,000 | 00:10:41,000 | 它不是急性的毒性 |
| 00:10:41,000 | 00:10:42,000 | 全台灣都犯案 |
| 00:10:42,000 | 00:10:45,000 | 我們就科學來講 |
| 00:10:45,000 | 00:10:47,000 | 也不要造成民眾的恐慌 |
| 00:10:47,000 | 00:10:48,000 | 我們也發布了一個 |
| 00:10:48,000 | 00:10:51,000 | 我們國衛院它所計算出來 |
| 00:10:51,000 | 00:10:53,000 | 我非常清楚20%怎麼算來 |
| 00:10:53,000 | 00:10:55,000 | 我也不在這邊講了 |
| 00:10:55,000 | 00:10:56,000 | 基本上我就說 |
| 00:10:56,000 | 00:10:59,000 | 不要單純再用以前一貫的做法 |
| 00:10:59,000 | 00:11:00,000 | 這就要吃很久的 |
| 00:11:00,000 | 00:11:01,000 | 吃很多 |
| 00:11:01,000 | 00:11:04,000 | 江組長我今天也沒讓你講話 |
| 00:11:04,000 | 00:11:05,000 | 您過去因為你是學者 |
| 00:11:05,000 | 00:11:06,000 | 學者是用這個話講 |
| 00:11:06,000 | 00:11:08,000 | 問題今天我們是食用油 |
| 00:11:08,000 | 00:11:09,000 | 什麼東西都加油 |
| 00:11:09,000 | 00:11:10,000 | 然後我在講 |
| 00:11:10,000 | 00:11:12,000 | 人沒有吃油是活不下去的 |
| 00:11:12,000 | 00:11:14,000 | 所以吳征您講的話 |
| 00:11:14,000 | 00:11:15,000 | 你有逼嗎 |
| 00:11:15,000 | 00:11:16,000 | 有 你有逼我們吃 |
| 00:11:16,000 | 00:11:17,000 | 因為我們已經沒有 |
| 00:11:17,000 | 00:11:18,000 | 健康油可以吃了 |
| 00:11:18,000 | 00:11:19,000 | 油是我們人體的必要營養素 |
| 00:11:19,000 | 00:11:20,000 | 油是我們提供 |
| 00:11:20,000 | 00:11:22,000 | 必須胺基酸的重要來源 |
| 00:11:22,000 | 00:11:23,000 | 必須胺基酸是什麼 |
| 00:11:23,000 | 00:11:24,000 | 我們身體沒辦法合成 |
| 00:11:24,000 | 00:11:25,000 | 我們需要油 |
| 00:11:25,000 | 00:11:26,000 | 第三所有的油溶性 |
| 00:11:26,000 | 00:11:27,000 | 維他命A D E K |
| 00:11:27,000 | 00:11:29,000 | 都是靠油才能幫助我們吸收 |
| 00:11:29,000 | 00:11:30,000 | 所以油是必要的 |
| 00:11:30,000 | 00:11:32,000 | 你有沒有逼我們吃油 |
| 00:11:32,000 | 00:11:33,000 | 我們到處都吃了 |
| 00:11:33,000 | 00:11:34,000 | 吳征你那句話 |
| 00:11:34,000 | 00:11:35,000 | 拜託你不要再說了 |
| 00:11:35,000 | 00:11:37,000 | 油品的我從來不講說這句話 |
| 00:11:37,000 | 00:11:41,000 | 我講的都是確保這個油品的安全 |
| 00:11:41,000 | 00:11:43,000 | 食用的安全是我們的責任 |
| 00:11:43,000 | 00:11:46,000 | 所以這個我們一定會務實的去做到 |
| 00:11:46,000 | 00:11:47,000 | 好啦 部長謝謝你 |
| 00:11:47,000 | 00:11:48,000 | 我今天也盡量用科學 |
| 00:11:48,000 | 00:11:50,000 | 用我的專業跟你溝通 |
| 00:11:50,000 | 00:11:51,000 | 好 謝謝部長 |
| 00:11:51,000 | 00:11:52,000 | 謝謝主席 |
| 00:11:52,000 | 00:11:53,000 | 謝謝委員 |
| 00:11:53,000 | 00:11:56,000 | 好 謝謝陳昭主委 |