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黃捷 @ 第11屆第5會期內政委員會第22次全體委員會議
| Start Time | End Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00:00,000 | 00:00:11,000 | 好 謝主席請崔主委 |
| 00:00:11,000 | 00:00:21,000 | 崔主委好 |
| 00:00:41,000 | 00:00:43,000 | 國小國中這些校園 |
| 00:00:43,000 | 00:00:45,000 | 如果他們是附中交流的這些活動 |
| 00:00:45,000 | 00:00:47,000 | 你們都有掌握嗎 |
| 00:00:47,000 | 00:00:49,000 | 跟我們坦承喔 |
| 00:00:49,000 | 00:00:53,000 | 過去對於各地方政府的中小學 |
| 00:00:53,000 | 00:00:59,000 | 包括連教育部的影響力或是宣導 |
| 00:00:59,000 | 00:01:01,000 | 能不能向下落實 |
| 00:01:01,000 | 00:01:06,000 | 都比較容易有沒有落實的地方 |
| 00:01:06,000 | 00:01:08,000 | 看起來是沒有嘛 |
| 00:01:08,000 | 00:01:10,000 | 其實監察院的這個報告裡面 |
| 00:01:10,000 | 00:01:11,000 | 也有提到說 |
| 00:01:11,000 | 00:01:14,000 | 雖然我們高中以下附中的人數 |
| 00:01:14,000 | 00:01:16,000 | 是已經成長到27倍了 |
| 00:01:16,000 | 00:01:19,000 | 但是教育部針對兩岸交流的 |
| 00:01:19,000 | 00:01:23,000 | 維師進行處置的只有32次裡面 |
| 00:01:23,000 | 00:01:25,000 | 都是大專院校 |
| 00:01:25,000 | 00:01:27,000 | 也就是說掌握度比較高的 |
| 00:01:27,000 | 00:01:29,000 | 還是只有大學以上 |
| 00:01:29,000 | 00:01:32,000 | 那高中以下甚至是發現說 |
| 00:01:32,000 | 00:01:34,000 | 這是一個非常大的安全的隱憂 |
| 00:01:34,000 | 00:01:35,000 | 跟一個破口 |
| 00:01:35,000 | 00:01:38,000 | 所以我在這邊想要請教的是 |
| 00:01:38,000 | 00:01:40,000 | 我們陸委會跟教育部這邊 |
| 00:01:40,000 | 00:01:44,000 | 到底現在跨部會討論的怎麼樣 |
| 00:01:44,000 | 00:01:48,000 | 如何進一步的去防範這些事情的發生 |
| 00:01:48,000 | 00:01:49,000 | 謝謝委員喔 |
| 00:01:49,000 | 00:01:51,000 | 我覺得跨部會沒有問題 |
| 00:01:51,000 | 00:01:53,000 | 我們跟教育部內政部 |
| 00:01:53,000 | 00:01:55,000 | 跟相關的部會 |
| 00:01:55,000 | 00:01:58,000 | 我們協作的都非常的好 |
| 00:01:58,000 | 00:02:00,000 | 那現在我們要努力的 |
| 00:02:00,000 | 00:02:01,000 | 就是剛剛委員所說的 |
| 00:02:01,000 | 00:02:04,000 | 必須要跟地方政府 |
| 00:02:04,000 | 00:02:07,000 | 跟各縣市政府拜託 |
| 00:02:07,000 | 00:02:08,000 | 這個從娃娃抓起 |
| 00:02:08,000 | 00:02:11,000 | 我們不應該去配合中共的統戰 |
| 00:02:11,000 | 00:02:15,000 | 而且這些小朋友或是國中生 |
| 00:02:15,000 | 00:02:19,000 | 他們對很多的認知概念 |
| 00:02:19,000 | 00:02:20,000 | 還在醞釀當中 |
| 00:02:20,000 | 00:02:22,000 | 馬上帶去中國大陸 |
| 00:02:22,000 | 00:02:27,000 | 被他們洗腦或是注入他們的這些 |
| 00:02:27,000 | 00:02:30,000 | 中共的這些認知 |
| 00:02:30,000 | 00:02:33,000 | 這個對他們未來的養成發展並不健康 |
| 00:02:33,000 | 00:02:39,000 | 那麼我們也認為這個對我們台灣的小孩而言 |
| 00:02:39,000 | 00:02:40,000 | 都是一個風險 |
| 00:02:40,000 | 00:02:43,000 | 所以如果去參觀的地方 |
| 00:02:43,000 | 00:02:46,000 | 都是中共的統戰愛國基地 |
| 00:02:46,000 | 00:02:48,000 | 都是它的紅色的企業 |
| 00:02:48,000 | 00:02:50,000 | 或是宣傳的基地 |
| 00:02:50,000 | 00:02:54,000 | 那這個容易累積錯誤的資訊 |
| 00:02:54,000 | 00:02:55,000 | 這個並不好 |
| 00:02:55,000 | 00:02:59,000 | 所以我們也會跟地方政府來加強溝通 |
| 00:02:59,000 | 00:03:03,000 | 希望教育部的這些市讀教育 |
| 00:03:03,000 | 00:03:06,000 | 可以向下延伸到中小學的老師 |
| 00:03:06,000 | 00:03:08,000 | 甚至一般的同學 |
| 00:03:08,000 | 00:03:11,000 | 除了宣導之外 |
| 00:03:11,000 | 00:03:14,000 | 第一個是高中以下 |
| 00:03:14,000 | 00:03:15,000 | 雖然主管機關是地方政府 |
| 00:03:15,000 | 00:03:17,000 | 但是我們陸委會 |
| 00:03:17,000 | 00:03:19,000 | 有沒有辦法訂一個準則 |
| 00:03:19,000 | 00:03:21,000 | 要求高中職以下的 |
| 00:03:21,000 | 00:03:23,000 | 就算是學校 |
| 00:03:23,000 | 00:03:25,000 | 他們要提供這些交流團的資訊 |
| 00:03:25,000 | 00:03:27,000 | 或者是他們要附中 |
| 00:03:27,000 | 00:03:30,000 | 都還是要經過一定的申報程序 |
| 00:03:30,000 | 00:03:32,000 | 陸委會這邊有沒有機會 |
| 00:03:32,000 | 00:03:34,000 | 是做這樣的處置 |
| 00:03:34,000 | 00:03:37,000 | 因為不然變得你們完全無法掌握 |
| 00:03:37,000 | 00:03:39,000 | 他們透過各種可能教師 |
| 00:03:39,000 | 00:03:41,000 | 直接傳在這種學生群組的也有 |
| 00:03:41,000 | 00:03:43,000 | 那甚至是我也知道說 |
| 00:03:43,000 | 00:03:45,000 | 很多的民間團體 |
| 00:03:45,000 | 00:03:47,000 | 甚至是他們會直接跟學校的 |
| 00:03:47,000 | 00:03:49,000 | 可能什麼推廣處聯絡 |
| 00:03:49,000 | 00:03:51,000 | 或者是行政單位聯絡 |
| 00:03:51,000 | 00:03:53,000 | 那就是說幫我們轉發資訊就好 |
| 00:03:53,000 | 00:03:56,000 | 那甚至他的單位是民間單位 |
| 00:03:56,000 | 00:03:58,000 | 就例如說什麼 |
| 00:03:58,000 | 00:04:01,000 | 之前有一些什麼公共事務管理學會 |
| 00:04:01,000 | 00:04:03,000 | 類似這樣他們就說請幫我們發一下資訊 |
| 00:04:03,000 | 00:04:06,000 | 然後我們這邊可以落地交代的 |
| 00:04:06,000 | 00:04:08,000 | 這種都有 |
| 00:04:08,000 | 00:04:10,000 | 那甚至還有知道說有一些什麼 |
| 00:04:10,000 | 00:04:12,000 | 暑期的交流團那些都是民間團體 |
| 00:04:12,000 | 00:04:14,000 | 請學校甚至是直接跟老師聯絡 |
| 00:04:14,000 | 00:04:16,000 | 幫我們發一下資訊 |
| 00:04:16,000 | 00:04:18,000 | 我們這邊落地交代 |
| 00:04:18,000 | 00:04:20,000 | 然後內容是什麼 |
| 00:04:20,000 | 00:04:22,000 | 告訴你一些中共的會台政策 |
| 00:04:22,000 | 00:04:24,000 | 像你剛剛講的 |
| 00:04:24,000 | 00:04:26,000 | 就是有啊這些事情非常多 |
| 00:04:26,000 | 00:04:28,000 | 不斷的在發生 |
| 00:04:28,000 | 00:04:30,000 | 那你現在只跟我說 |
| 00:04:30,000 | 00:04:32,000 | 我們會跟地方政府來宣導 |
| 00:04:32,000 | 00:04:34,000 | 因為他們是主管機關 |
| 00:04:34,000 | 00:04:36,000 | 這樣怎麼對呢 |
| 00:04:36,000 | 00:04:38,000 | 是謝謝委員 |
| 00:04:38,000 | 00:04:40,000 | 委員剛剛講的一些形態類型 |
| 00:04:40,000 | 00:04:42,000 | 包括很多的一些公共協會 |
| 00:04:42,000 | 00:04:44,000 | 一些社團 |
| 00:04:44,000 | 00:04:46,000 | 他組織這些學生 |
| 00:04:46,000 | 00:04:48,000 | 附錄 |
| 00:04:48,000 | 00:04:50,000 | 剛剛有一些委員提到類似的 |
| 00:04:50,000 | 00:04:52,000 | 我們都歡迎跟我們檢舉 |
| 00:04:52,000 | 00:04:54,000 | 歡迎家長跟我們檢舉 |
| 00:04:54,000 | 00:04:58,000 | 那麼我們就會依照兩岸條例相關的規範 |
| 00:04:58,000 | 00:05:00,000 | 比如說未曾政府許可 |
| 00:05:00,000 | 00:05:02,000 | 不得從事 |
| 00:05:02,000 | 00:05:04,000 | 這個有關於 |
| 00:05:04,000 | 00:05:06,000 | 這個兩岸的這些 |
| 00:05:06,000 | 00:05:08,000 | 這些交流 |
| 00:05:08,000 | 00:05:10,000 | 各種任何形式的 |
| 00:05:10,000 | 00:05:12,000 | 這些合作的行為 |
| 00:05:12,000 | 00:05:14,000 | 那我們都可以依照 |
| 00:05:14,000 | 00:05:16,000 | 兩岸條例33條之一 |
| 00:05:16,000 | 00:05:18,000 | 那我們如果是屬於內政部 |
| 00:05:18,000 | 00:05:20,000 | 管的這個 |
| 00:05:20,000 | 00:05:22,000 | 這些團體 |
| 00:05:22,000 | 00:05:24,000 | 我們就交給內政部來做主管機關 |
| 00:05:24,000 | 00:05:26,000 | 如果是相關的教育團體 |
| 00:05:26,000 | 00:05:28,000 | 那我們就交給教育部 |
| 00:05:28,000 | 00:05:30,000 | 那我們都會來積極的查處 |
| 00:05:30,000 | 00:05:32,000 | 那至於委員剛剛有提到 |
| 00:05:32,000 | 00:05:34,000 | 是不是我們可以跟教育部 |
| 00:05:34,000 | 00:05:36,000 | 再做一些法規 |
| 00:05:36,000 | 00:05:38,000 | 向下延伸 |
| 00:05:38,000 | 00:05:40,000 | 要求我們各中小學 |
| 00:05:40,000 | 00:05:42,000 | 能夠有一個指引 |
| 00:05:42,000 | 00:05:44,000 | 或是要求他們 |
| 00:05:44,000 | 00:05:46,000 | 要來上網 |
| 00:05:46,000 | 00:05:48,000 | 我們剛剛說的 |
| 00:05:48,000 | 00:05:50,000 | 兩岸教育 |
| 00:05:50,000 | 00:05:52,000 | 交流活動的登錄那個網站 |
| 00:05:52,000 | 00:05:54,000 | 那是給各級學校的 |
| 00:05:54,000 | 00:05:56,000 | 不是只有給大學生用 |
| 00:05:56,000 | 00:05:58,000 | 那這部分我們如何 |
| 00:05:58,000 | 00:06:00,000 | 來做一些指引跟宣導 |
| 00:06:00,000 | 00:06:02,000 | 這可能我們跟教育部 |
| 00:06:02,000 | 00:06:04,000 | 再來一些努力 |
| 00:06:04,000 | 00:06:06,000 | 好 我再次具體建議 |
| 00:06:06,000 | 00:06:08,000 | 第一個是像剛剛主委說的 |
| 00:06:08,000 | 00:06:10,000 | 就是如果家長 |
| 00:06:10,000 | 00:06:12,000 | 有發現這個是非常 |
| 00:06:12,000 | 00:06:14,000 | 不對等然後沒有尊嚴 |
| 00:06:14,000 | 00:06:16,000 | 甚至是很不正常的交流 |
| 00:06:16,000 | 00:06:18,000 | 就例如說他很明顯就是 |
| 00:06:18,000 | 00:06:20,000 | 帶你去把這些什麼 |
| 00:06:20,000 | 00:06:22,000 | 中共的會台政策直接在他們的 |
| 00:06:22,000 | 00:06:24,000 | 群組裡面宣傳或者是 |
| 00:06:24,000 | 00:06:26,000 | 他們就跟你說到這邊 |
| 00:06:26,000 | 00:06:28,000 | 你都不用付錢這個全部都免費 |
| 00:06:28,000 | 00:06:30,000 | 這是一看就有問題嗎 |
| 00:06:30,000 | 00:06:32,000 | 那請這個有發現的人 |
| 00:06:32,000 | 00:06:34,000 | 及早的跟我們落委會 |
| 00:06:34,000 | 00:06:36,000 | 來通報來檢舉這個都要 |
| 00:06:36,000 | 00:06:38,000 | 那另外一方面就是這一些 |
| 00:06:38,000 | 00:06:40,000 | 人民團體因為我看 |
| 00:06:40,000 | 00:06:42,000 | 教育部的回應是說因為人民團體 |
| 00:06:42,000 | 00:06:44,000 | 不是教育部管的所以人民 |
| 00:06:44,000 | 00:06:46,000 | 團體就算是藉由學校 |
| 00:06:46,000 | 00:06:48,000 | 這個管道去跟學生 |
| 00:06:48,000 | 00:06:50,000 | 去收攏去把 |
| 00:06:50,000 | 00:06:52,000 | 這些娃娃抓起來 |
| 00:06:52,000 | 00:06:54,000 | 但是教育部罰不到 |
| 00:06:54,000 | 00:06:56,000 | 罰不到因為他們 |
| 00:06:56,000 | 00:06:58,000 | 說人民團體不是他們管 |
| 00:06:58,000 | 00:07:00,000 | 這個要跟內政部講但問題是 |
| 00:07:00,000 | 00:07:02,000 | 教育部也沒有跟內政部講 |
| 00:07:02,000 | 00:07:04,000 | 所以你們跨部會的 |
| 00:07:04,000 | 00:07:06,000 | 協調非常重要這個通報的機制 |
| 00:07:06,000 | 00:07:08,000 | 拜託務必建立 |
| 00:07:08,000 | 00:07:10,000 | 這個由路人員來交集 |
| 00:07:10,000 | 00:07:12,000 | 現在不會有所謂 |
| 00:07:12,000 | 00:07:14,000 | 監委說什麼護踢啤酒 |
| 00:07:14,000 | 00:07:16,000 | 不可能現在我們各部會 |
| 00:07:16,000 | 00:07:18,000 | 我們都一起 |
| 00:07:18,000 | 00:07:20,000 | 在相同的平台一起 |
| 00:07:20,000 | 00:07:22,000 | 協力分工合作 |
| 00:07:22,000 | 00:07:24,000 | 而且我們合作很愉快 |
| 00:07:24,000 | 00:07:26,000 | 好這個也沒有什麼 |
| 00:07:26,000 | 00:07:28,000 | 愉不愉快的問題就是拜託一定要 |
| 00:07:28,000 | 00:07:30,000 | 做到最後一點請 |
| 00:07:30,000 | 00:07:32,000 | 你們提供這一些他們 |
| 00:07:32,000 | 00:07:34,000 | 統戰形式的樣態 |
| 00:07:34,000 | 00:07:36,000 | 讓家長可以知道怎麼 |
| 00:07:36,000 | 00:07:38,000 | 查核嗎知道說 |
| 00:07:38,000 | 00:07:40,000 | 一看這個就是有問題不然他們不知道 |
| 00:07:40,000 | 00:07:42,000 | 有識別啊就例如說他們 |
| 00:07:42,000 | 00:07:44,000 | 其實統戰都有個套路 |
| 00:07:44,000 | 00:07:46,000 | 然後去看哪些企業去看他們 |
| 00:07:46,000 | 00:07:48,000 | 說什麼看似中國很 |
| 00:07:48,000 | 00:07:50,000 | 繁華的這些地方他們其實都有 |
| 00:07:50,000 | 00:07:52,000 | 個清單你們多提供 |
| 00:07:52,000 | 00:07:54,000 | 讓家長知道說一看就知道他們 |
| 00:07:54,000 | 00:07:56,000 | 心裡會有個意識在好不好 |
| 00:07:56,000 | 00:07:58,000 | 好謝謝 |
| 00:07:58,000 | 00:08:00,000 | 謝謝委員 |
| 00:08:00,000 | 00:08:02,000 | 謝謝黃捷委員 |