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張宏陸 @ 第11屆第5會期內政委員會第22次全體委員會議
| Start Time | End Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00:00,000 | 00:00:12,000 | 請問 請問主委 |
| 00:00:12,000 | 00:00:20,000 | 請問主委 |
| 00:00:20,000 | 00:00:26,000 | 主委 其實我們跟中國的關係 |
| 00:00:26,000 | 00:00:31,000 | 其實有很多很多 其實民眾都不清楚 |
| 00:00:31,000 | 00:00:34,000 | 那我想在這邊請問一下 |
| 00:00:34,000 | 00:00:39,000 | 主委你知不知道 現在他們透過很多管道 |
| 00:00:39,000 | 00:00:45,000 | 邀請我們台灣的學生去中國訪問 |
| 00:00:45,000 | 00:00:47,000 | 這個你知不知道 |
| 00:00:47,000 | 00:00:50,000 | 是 每年都會透過很多管道 |
| 00:00:50,000 | 00:00:53,000 | 特別是暑假期間 |
| 00:00:53,000 | 00:00:58,000 | 過去如果人數多的還會在北京萬人大會師 |
| 00:00:58,000 | 00:01:01,000 | 在不同的地點有所謂千人會師 |
| 00:01:01,000 | 00:01:06,000 | 所以暑假期間我們也特別提醒教育部 |
| 00:01:06,000 | 00:01:10,000 | 跟所屬的學校要能夠了解 |
| 00:01:10,000 | 00:01:13,000 | 我們贊成對等尊嚴 |
| 00:01:13,000 | 00:01:18,000 | 沒有統戰正常健康有序的學術或學生的交流 |
| 00:01:18,000 | 00:01:21,000 | 要完成請假程序 |
| 00:01:21,000 | 00:01:27,000 | 要上兩岸教育活動的這些網站來報備 |
| 00:01:27,000 | 00:01:30,000 | 但是我們不希望我們的學生去到大陸 |
| 00:01:30,000 | 00:01:33,000 | 接待的是統戰部 接待是各地台辦 |
| 00:01:33,000 | 00:01:36,000 | 然後就進行統戰的行程 |
| 00:01:36,000 | 00:01:38,000 | 參觀紅色根據地 |
| 00:01:38,000 | 00:01:41,000 | 參觀各種的統戰愛國基地 |
| 00:01:41,000 | 00:01:44,000 | 為主的這些統戰行程 |
| 00:01:44,000 | 00:01:48,000 | 那這個我們就需要跟教育部 |
| 00:01:48,000 | 00:01:50,000 | 要求各學校能夠遵守 |
| 00:01:50,000 | 00:01:54,000 | 但現在有沒有參觀那些你剛說的那些 |
| 00:01:54,000 | 00:02:00,000 | 我們這幾年因為我想教育部做了很多要求 |
| 00:02:00,000 | 00:02:05,000 | 我想監察院的報告是從2021年到2025年 |
| 00:02:05,000 | 00:02:09,000 | 特別是前幾年確實比較多 |
| 00:02:09,000 | 00:02:13,000 | 這幾年我想教育部非常積極負責 |
| 00:02:13,000 | 00:02:16,000 | 也積極的跟各學校說明 |
| 00:02:16,000 | 00:02:22,000 | 而且要搭配剛說的這些網路的這些登錄 |
| 00:02:22,000 | 00:02:27,000 | 那同時在登錄的過程給大家檢核安全的問題 |
| 00:02:27,000 | 00:02:31,000 | 而且配合上這些試圖教育 |
| 00:02:31,000 | 00:02:36,000 | 所以我們現在的學生附錄第一個數量減少 |
| 00:02:36,000 | 00:02:41,000 | 第二個也在各校做好師生安全的這些保障 |
| 00:02:41,000 | 00:02:44,000 | 上完試圖教育再去中國大陸交流 |
| 00:02:44,000 | 00:02:46,000 | 這樣比較不會 |
| 00:02:46,000 | 00:02:48,000 | 確定都有照主委你說的這樣做 |
| 00:02:48,000 | 00:02:49,000 | 我們是 |
| 00:02:49,000 | 00:02:54,000 | 那很多是透過網路上是在招攬的 |
| 00:02:54,000 | 00:02:55,000 | 是透過網路的喔 |
| 00:02:55,000 | 00:02:57,000 | 並不一定透過學校喔 |
| 00:02:57,000 | 00:02:58,000 | 是 |
| 00:02:58,000 | 00:03:01,000 | 這個部分有做到主委你剛說的嗎 |
| 00:03:01,000 | 00:03:07,000 | 跟委員報告我們那一套教育部的這些登錄的平台 |
| 00:03:07,000 | 00:03:12,000 | 是要包括老師學生或是單純學生 |
| 00:03:12,000 | 00:03:17,000 | 或者是學校出團都必須要登錄 |
| 00:03:17,000 | 00:03:22,000 | 當然他有沒有可能找社會的中間團體來組團 |
| 00:03:22,000 | 00:03:29,000 | 那過去教育部也有去規範這些從外界來的這些中介團體 |
| 00:03:29,000 | 00:03:32,000 | 我們希望這些中介團體呢 |
| 00:03:32,000 | 00:03:35,000 | 如果有帶師生到中國大陸交流 |
| 00:03:35,000 | 00:03:37,000 | 第一個安全是第一 |
| 00:03:37,000 | 00:03:40,000 | 第二個就是不要有統戰的行程 |
| 00:03:40,000 | 00:03:47,000 | 那通常呢我們都會透過各個學校去要求去控管 |
| 00:03:47,000 | 00:03:50,000 | 因為還是要從學校來控管比較適合 |
| 00:03:50,000 | 00:03:53,000 | 但我暑假嘛我透過其他的民間團體啊 |
| 00:03:53,000 | 00:03:55,000 | 他在網路上 |
| 00:03:55,000 | 00:03:56,000 | 號召對 |
| 00:03:56,000 | 00:04:01,000 | 有做到登記嗎有做到百分之百嗎有這樣嗎 |
| 00:04:01,000 | 00:04:04,000 | 我們就需要學生如果去的話 |
| 00:04:04,000 | 00:04:06,000 | 那你現在知道有嗎 |
| 00:04:06,000 | 00:04:07,000 | 有百分之百嗎 |
| 00:04:07,000 | 00:04:09,000 | 當然很難做到 |
| 00:04:09,000 | 00:04:10,000 | 不可能吧 |
| 00:04:10,000 | 00:04:14,000 | 不過大部分都有按照規定了慢慢的 |
| 00:04:14,000 | 00:04:17,000 | 大部分就是沒有全部啦 |
| 00:04:17,000 | 00:04:18,000 | 是 |
| 00:04:18,000 | 00:04:19,000 | 對不對 |
| 00:04:19,000 | 00:04:21,000 | 沒有我們事實上發現是沒有全部啊 |
| 00:04:21,000 | 00:04:22,000 | 是 |
| 00:04:22,000 | 00:04:23,000 | 對不對 |
| 00:04:23,000 | 00:04:25,000 | 那我為什麼特別問這個問題 |
| 00:04:25,000 | 00:04:28,000 | 中國除了啊 |
| 00:04:28,000 | 00:04:33,000 | 啊宗教啦除了啊一些反正免費旅遊啊或什麼 |
| 00:04:33,000 | 00:04:36,000 | 越來越多了連學生越來越多了 |
| 00:04:36,000 | 00:04:38,000 | 這個連國小連什麼都有 |
| 00:04:38,000 | 00:04:41,000 | 而且我上次質詢也有問到啊 |
| 00:04:41,000 | 00:04:43,000 | 這個如果說 |
| 00:04:43,000 | 00:04:46,000 | 台親一家他把那個很多這種 |
| 00:04:46,000 | 00:04:51,000 | 我們優秀的這個大學生或什麼這樣子 |
| 00:04:51,000 | 00:04:54,000 | 這個也是對國安會有很大的影響啊 |
| 00:04:54,000 | 00:04:55,000 | 當然 |
| 00:04:55,000 | 00:04:57,000 | 他是整個都這樣子下來啊 |
| 00:04:57,000 | 00:05:02,000 | 教育部你民間團體教育部 |
| 00:05:02,000 | 00:05:05,000 | 他有可能去處理到民間團體嗎 |
| 00:05:05,000 | 00:05:08,000 | 他有可能是這樣重複啊 |
| 00:05:08,000 | 00:05:11,000 | 真的是有去登陸有去什麼的嗎 |
| 00:05:11,000 | 00:05:12,000 | 我覺得不大可能 |
| 00:05:12,000 | 00:05:13,000 | 而且 |
| 00:05:13,000 | 00:05:14,000 | 而且 |
| 00:05:14,000 | 00:05:15,000 | 欸 |
| 00:05:15,000 | 00:05:18,000 | 有沒有你們有沒有去如果有登陸 |
| 00:05:18,000 | 00:05:23,000 | 有沒有有沒有什麼學生是重複去好幾次的 |
| 00:05:23,000 | 00:05:27,000 | 如果他都有上網登陸當然我們會發現 |
| 00:05:27,000 | 00:05:30,000 | 還有剛委員講的 |
| 00:05:30,000 | 00:05:32,000 | 剛委員講他很可能是社會團體 |
| 00:05:32,000 | 00:05:33,000 | 對啊 |
| 00:05:33,000 | 00:05:34,000 | 招攬的 |
| 00:05:34,000 | 00:05:38,000 | 那這部分啊我們也在做跨部會的平台 |
| 00:05:38,000 | 00:05:40,000 | 當學校由教育部主管 |
| 00:05:40,000 | 00:05:42,000 | 那如果是一般的社會團體 |
| 00:05:42,000 | 00:05:45,000 | 我們也請內政部來協助 |
| 00:05:45,000 | 00:05:47,000 | 那如果有人檢舉 |
| 00:05:47,000 | 00:05:52,000 | 他疑似這個違反我們兩岸條例的相關規範 |
| 00:05:52,000 | 00:05:54,000 | 那我們當然 |
| 00:05:54,000 | 00:05:57,000 | 就如果說他是社會團體 |
| 00:05:57,000 | 00:06:01,000 | 那我們就請內政部來做主管機關 |
| 00:06:01,000 | 00:06:06,000 | 來做有沒有違反相關的這些查處或調查 |
| 00:06:06,000 | 00:06:07,000 | 目前我們都有做 |
| 00:06:07,000 | 00:06:10,000 | 所以目前有有有有調查 |
| 00:06:10,000 | 00:06:12,000 | 對對對我們各部會的 |
| 00:06:12,000 | 00:06:13,000 | 調查了多少個團體 |
| 00:06:13,000 | 00:06:15,000 | 不用講名字 |
| 00:06:15,000 | 00:06:16,000 | 大概 |
| 00:06:16,000 | 00:06:18,000 | 我們是不是我們 |
| 00:06:18,000 | 00:06:20,000 | 沒有大概就好了啦 |
| 00:06:20,000 | 00:06:21,000 | 不是考試啊 |
| 00:06:21,000 | 00:06:23,000 | 我知道有好幾個 |
| 00:06:23,000 | 00:06:25,000 | 都是蠻著名的團體 |
| 00:06:25,000 | 00:06:26,000 | 有 |
| 00:06:26,000 | 00:06:27,000 | 那我們再把名單送給委員 |
| 00:06:27,000 | 00:06:30,000 | 有沒有查出來任何的 |
| 00:06:30,000 | 00:06:33,000 | 有沒有查出來任何的步伐 |
| 00:06:33,000 | 00:06:35,000 | 然後也把它解散掉 |
| 00:06:35,000 | 00:06:37,000 | 也依法解散 |
| 00:06:37,000 | 00:06:41,000 | 那我們對這些可能 |
| 00:06:41,000 | 00:06:46,000 | 接到中共指示委託資助的相關團體 |
| 00:06:46,000 | 00:06:50,000 | 那這明顯的就是一種統戰的交流 |
| 00:06:50,000 | 00:06:51,000 | 重點就是啦 |
| 00:06:51,000 | 00:06:53,000 | 重點要問你就是說 |
| 00:06:53,000 | 00:06:55,000 | 我們現在是把它解散對不對 |
| 00:06:55,000 | 00:06:56,000 | 是 |
| 00:06:56,000 | 00:06:59,000 | 好像沒有裁罰沒有什麼任何 |
| 00:07:01,000 | 00:07:02,000 | 好像沒有 |
| 00:07:03,000 | 00:07:05,000 | 我想解散就是一個 |
| 00:07:05,000 | 00:07:06,000 | 沒有啊 |
| 00:07:06,000 | 00:07:08,000 | 解散它可以另外再用一個啊 |
| 00:07:08,000 | 00:07:12,000 | 你覺不覺得需要修法來防堵這一條 |
| 00:07:12,000 | 00:07:13,000 | 這個部分 |
| 00:07:13,000 | 00:07:18,000 | 我們當然如果說它仍然在另起爐灶 |
| 00:07:18,000 | 00:07:21,000 | 在以新的這個社團名義 |
| 00:07:21,000 | 00:07:23,000 | 那當然我們就需要 |
| 00:07:23,000 | 00:07:26,000 | 需要有更重的這個裁罰 |
| 00:07:26,000 | 00:07:28,000 | 這個我們 |
| 00:07:28,000 | 00:07:30,000 | 我只問你啊 |
| 00:07:30,000 | 00:07:32,000 | 如果修法來堵這個漏洞 |
| 00:07:32,000 | 00:07:33,000 | 你贊不贊成 |
| 00:07:33,000 | 00:07:34,000 | 你贊成啊 |
| 00:07:34,000 | 00:07:35,000 | 這樣就好嘛 |
| 00:07:35,000 | 00:07:36,000 | 是啊 |
| 00:07:36,000 | 00:07:37,000 | 你贊成嘛 |
| 00:07:37,000 | 00:07:38,000 | 是 |
| 00:07:38,000 | 00:07:39,000 | 謝謝 |
| 00:07:39,000 | 00:07:40,000 | 謝謝 |
| 00:07:41,000 | 00:07:42,000 | 謝謝張宏路委員 |