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王鴻薇 @ 第11屆第5會期內政委員會第22次全體委員會議
| Start Time | End Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00:00,000 | 00:00:12,600 | 好 谢谢主席 我请邱主委 |
| 00:00:12,600 | 00:00:19,000 | 主委好 |
| 00:00:19,000 | 00:00:19,600 | 主委 |
| 00:00:19,600 | 00:00:22,000 | 有关于我们今天是针对 |
| 00:00:22,000 | 00:00:24,760 | 大概都是我们的委员的版本 |
| 00:00:24,760 | 00:00:29,320 | 有关于这个两岸人民关系条例相关的修正 |
| 00:00:29,320 | 00:00:37,160 | 那这些有些修正是有更提升这个相关人士的一些法律的权利 |
| 00:00:37,160 | 00:00:42,160 | 这基本上我个人是没有什么 就不会有什么反对 |
| 00:00:42,160 | 00:00:44,880 | 那不过这里面有延长管收的部分 |
| 00:00:44,880 | 00:00:51,160 | 我觉得要怎么样去强化让整个的法律的程序更为周详 |
| 00:00:51,160 | 00:00:52,400 | 这也是非常重要 |
| 00:00:52,400 | 00:00:55,960 | 只是说现在的看起来版本非常众多 |
| 00:00:55,960 | 00:00:57,960 | 而且又没有行政院的版本 |
| 00:00:58,080 | 00:01:02,160 | 所以如果说到时候我们进入了逐条的部分 |
| 00:01:02,160 | 00:01:09,360 | 我希望能够在相关的法律的程序部分要有更周详 |
| 00:01:09,360 | 00:01:16,960 | 不管是你延长收容或者是禁止这个届名登记的部分 |
| 00:01:16,960 | 00:01:20,520 | 好 来 我们现在看 |
| 00:01:20,560 | 00:01:28,000 | 因为最近我们陆委会有很多都在讲就是说统战的部分 |
| 00:01:28,000 | 00:01:32,240 | 就是要提醒人民不要被中国大陆统战 |
| 00:01:32,240 | 00:01:37,160 | 所以包含台北市迎来了小熊猫 |
| 00:01:37,160 | 00:01:39,479 | 你们也认为有统战之嫌 |
| 00:01:39,479 | 00:01:47,160 | 所以相关而且是市级的有官员的身份你们不让他来 |
| 00:01:47,160 | 00:01:49,199 | 所以小熊猫也会统战 |
| 00:01:49,360 | 00:01:53,240 | 或者是海峡论坛前一阵子这个喧喧嚷嚷的 |
| 00:01:53,240 | 00:01:55,960 | 说这个海峡论坛就是统战平台 |
| 00:01:55,960 | 00:01:57,880 | 或者是卖水果到大陆 |
| 00:01:57,880 | 00:02:01,920 | 或最近有关于学生到大陆交流 |
| 00:02:01,920 | 00:02:05,480 | 甚至陆生来台交流也说有统战的问题 |
| 00:02:05,480 | 00:02:08,960 | 虽然我们嘴巴上讲很欢迎陆生 |
| 00:02:08,960 | 00:02:11,600 | 好 那我想请问一下 |
| 00:02:11,600 | 00:02:16,760 | 最近靖州刊有一个爆料就是叫李退之 |
| 00:02:16,760 | 00:02:19,160 | 我想诸位应该也认识他 |
| 00:02:19,200 | 00:02:24,880 | 李退之他之前担任我们农委会的副主委 |
| 00:02:24,880 | 00:02:28,000 | 当时他原来是台南市议员 |
| 00:02:28,000 | 00:02:31,680 | 但是在我们赖总统当时他组阁的时候 |
| 00:02:31,680 | 00:02:33,920 | 把他延缆入阁 |
| 00:02:33,920 | 00:02:40,600 | 所以他被外界视之为是赖总统的亲信子弟兵 |
| 00:02:40,600 | 00:02:46,960 | 原来说赖总统组阁就把他的台南的子弟兵也延缆入阁了 |
| 00:02:47,000 | 00:02:50,680 | 好 那他最近就被靖州刊爆料 |
| 00:02:50,680 | 00:02:55,840 | 说有很多台商说看到他多次的游走两岸 |
| 00:02:55,840 | 00:03:00,360 | 而且打着是说是赖总统的救赎 |
| 00:03:00,360 | 00:03:04,760 | 甚至说是我们副主委梁文杰的大学同学 |
| 00:03:04,760 | 00:03:08,680 | 那因为他这样的一个名号跟他的渊源 |
| 00:03:08,680 | 00:03:13,160 | 使得大陆的国台办也非常重视 |
| 00:03:13,160 | 00:03:15,840 | 也频频跟他接触 |
| 00:03:15,880 | 00:03:18,080 | 好 所以我想请问一下 |
| 00:03:18,080 | 00:03:22,360 | 我们陆委会有没有掌握到这些讯息 |
| 00:03:22,360 | 00:03:26,000 | 报告委员 因为包括你提到的当事人 |
| 00:03:26,000 | 00:03:33,440 | 都没有跟我们陆委会有所谓的要告知我们 |
| 00:03:33,440 | 00:03:38,280 | 那他也是也没有在政务官 |
| 00:03:38,280 | 00:03:40,000 | 时间也已经过去 |
| 00:03:40,000 | 00:03:42,640 | 都没有我们联审的 |
| 00:03:42,679 | 00:03:45,160 | 已经管制齐了 |
| 00:03:45,160 | 00:03:46,119 | 所以也没有联审 |
| 00:03:46,119 | 00:03:47,320 | 好 所以没有关系 |
| 00:03:47,320 | 00:03:48,320 | 我们并不清楚 |
| 00:03:48,320 | 00:03:49,880 | 好 你们不清楚 |
| 00:03:49,880 | 00:03:51,880 | 你们伺候也不做追踪 |
| 00:03:51,880 | 00:03:55,000 | 也没有像 因为比如说像海峡论坛 |
| 00:03:55,000 | 00:03:59,000 | 姚庆林因为他现在是台东县县长 |
| 00:03:59,000 | 00:04:01,359 | 但是有很多像农会 |
| 00:04:01,359 | 00:04:04,839 | 他们也不具任何的官方的身份 |
| 00:04:04,839 | 00:04:06,880 | 你们还是去做调查了不是吗 |
| 00:04:06,880 | 00:04:08,959 | 我们有了解 |
| 00:04:08,959 | 00:04:12,119 | 那农委会也有把报告给我们 |
| 00:04:12,120 | 00:04:16,000 | 他认为没有违反两条立法的刑事 |
| 00:04:16,000 | 00:04:19,720 | 所以你退资陆委会没有去了解没有去调查 |
| 00:04:19,720 | 00:04:23,200 | 我们去了解他是可能是参长 |
| 00:04:23,200 | 00:04:26,400 | 但是并没有违反什么法令 |
| 00:04:26,400 | 00:04:28,560 | 好 等会我会继续问 |
| 00:04:28,560 | 00:04:32,200 | 那另外洪其昌我相信主委也很熟 |
| 00:04:32,200 | 00:04:34,120 | 洪其昌现在虽然退流了 |
| 00:04:34,120 | 00:04:38,400 | 但是他是新潮流的创党元老 |
| 00:04:38,400 | 00:04:40,440 | 那所以呢他到大陆去 |
| 00:04:40,480 | 00:04:43,480 | 也都受到非常地礼遇 |
| 00:04:43,480 | 00:04:44,920 | 那他这几年 |
| 00:04:44,920 | 00:04:48,840 | 他这几年也常常出入这个中国大陆 |
| 00:04:48,840 | 00:04:51,680 | 而且他横跨的领域更多 |
| 00:04:51,680 | 00:04:55,480 | 从这个旅游业 科技业 生技业 |
| 00:04:55,480 | 00:04:57,440 | 反正是各式的产业 |
| 00:04:57,440 | 00:04:58,400 | 那都有 |
| 00:04:58,400 | 00:05:00,760 | 而且这个出入也非常频繁 |
| 00:05:00,760 | 00:05:03,840 | 而且带团前往 |
| 00:05:03,840 | 00:05:05,640 | 那如果他去参加的话 |
| 00:05:05,640 | 00:05:08,320 | 也都会成为座上宾 |
| 00:05:08,320 | 00:05:09,760 | 那所以请问一下 |
| 00:05:09,800 | 00:05:14,280 | 如果会对于洪其昌您这位老友 |
| 00:05:14,280 | 00:05:18,080 | 那么有没有去做任何的了解 |
| 00:05:18,080 | 00:05:22,039 | 跟委员 我们有跟当事人问 |
| 00:05:22,039 | 00:05:25,120 | 那基本上我们也会提醒要注意 |
| 00:05:25,120 | 00:05:28,520 | 附陆要注意两岸的相关的规范 |
| 00:05:28,520 | 00:05:31,560 | 那我想他也都很清楚 |
| 00:05:31,560 | 00:05:34,920 | 因为他也曾经任职海机会的董事长 |
| 00:05:34,920 | 00:05:35,800 | 是 |
| 00:05:35,800 | 00:05:37,840 | 那截至目前为止 我想 |
| 00:05:37,840 | 00:05:39,000 | 我很OK |
| 00:05:39,040 | 00:05:41,440 | 没有 我至少我们没有市政 |
| 00:05:41,440 | 00:05:43,400 | 了解他有多感情的规范 |
| 00:05:43,400 | 00:05:47,040 | 那金宁您知道他还要去吗 |
| 00:05:47,040 | 00:05:48,720 | 知道吗 |
| 00:05:48,720 | 00:05:50,400 | 因为他不用 |
| 00:05:50,400 | 00:05:51,240 | 就不了解 |
| 00:05:51,240 | 00:05:54,440 | 不是 他时间也是超过我们管制期 |
| 00:05:54,440 | 00:05:58,160 | 所以他也是民间人士 |
| 00:05:58,160 | 00:06:00,120 | 所以同样是民间人士 |
| 00:06:00,120 | 00:06:01,960 | 那可能我们的农会 |
| 00:06:01,960 | 00:06:05,240 | 他去卖水果到大陆就有问题 |
| 00:06:05,240 | 00:06:07,520 | 那同样是民间人士 |
| 00:06:07,560 | 00:06:11,200 | 属于是外总统的亲信好友 |
| 00:06:11,200 | 00:06:12,200 | 就没有问题 |
| 00:06:12,200 | 00:06:13,200 | 委员不是这样 |
| 00:06:13,200 | 00:06:15,560 | 我们只是说不要卖帐那个 |
| 00:06:15,560 | 00:06:17,200 | 海峡论坛那个统战平台 |
| 00:06:17,200 | 00:06:19,039 | 海峡论坛是统战平台 |
| 00:06:19,039 | 00:06:20,479 | 好 |
| 00:06:20,479 | 00:06:24,599 | 这个论海峡论坛是统战平台 |
| 00:06:24,599 | 00:06:27,919 | 那请问一下北京的咖啡博览会 |
| 00:06:27,919 | 00:06:30,400 | 是不是统战平台 |
| 00:06:30,400 | 00:06:31,560 | 跟我们报告 |
| 00:06:31,560 | 00:06:35,120 | 因为海峡论坛是中共当局 |
| 00:06:35,160 | 00:06:38,800 | 他对台统战的一个大交流 |
| 00:06:38,800 | 00:06:40,440 | 大合作的一个 |
| 00:06:40,440 | 00:06:43,040 | 由他们主导的一个对台平台 |
| 00:06:43,040 | 00:06:45,360 | 那我想您提到这个什么博览会 |
| 00:06:45,360 | 00:06:47,720 | 应该不是中共当局 |
| 00:06:47,720 | 00:06:52,040 | 所以北京咖啡博览会不是统战平台 |
| 00:06:52,040 | 00:06:53,720 | 所以李卓之他说 |
| 00:06:53,720 | 00:06:56,000 | 他就是去参加这个咖啡节 |
| 00:06:56,000 | 00:06:58,760 | 不过我可以跟主委报告 |
| 00:06:58,760 | 00:07:00,200 | 这个北京咖啡节 |
| 00:07:00,200 | 00:07:02,040 | 后来我有在网上查 |
| 00:07:02,080 | 00:07:04,720 | 我想既然我很鼓励 |
| 00:07:04,720 | 00:07:09,160 | 台湾的业者去拓展中国大陆市场 |
| 00:07:09,160 | 00:07:10,720 | 台湾的咖啡很好 |
| 00:07:10,720 | 00:07:12,320 | 可是他根本没有咖啡馆 |
| 00:07:12,320 | 00:07:15,200 | 也没有特定的台湾的咖啡的摊位 |
| 00:07:15,200 | 00:07:18,200 | 事实上是非常非常零星的 |
| 00:07:18,200 | 00:07:19,760 | 个别的厂商而已 |
| 00:07:19,760 | 00:07:21,240 | 好那我请问一下 |
| 00:07:21,240 | 00:07:24,320 | 这个也是在台湾的产业非常有名的 |
| 00:07:24,320 | 00:07:28,680 | 金台科技论坛算不算统战平台 |
| 00:07:28,720 | 00:07:34,760 | 我想这个论坛经常在两岸做一些活动 |
| 00:07:34,760 | 00:07:35,280 | 我没有 |
| 00:07:35,280 | 00:07:36,560 | 你没有参加过 |
| 00:07:36,560 | 00:07:39,240 | 好那它是不是统战平台 |
| 00:07:39,240 | 00:07:43,480 | 这个部分它比较复杂 |
| 00:07:43,480 | 00:07:46,480 | 那也经常在做这方面的工作 |
| 00:07:46,480 | 00:07:50,040 | 那有没有统战那要看事实 |
| 00:07:50,040 | 00:07:51,640 | 要以事实来认定 |
| 00:07:51,640 | 00:07:55,560 | 所以因为这个洪其昌连续两年 |
| 00:07:55,560 | 00:07:57,880 | 都去参加这个金台科技论坛 |
| 00:07:57,880 | 00:07:59,520 | 而且都是座上宾 |
| 00:07:59,520 | 00:08:02,280 | 所以你现在不敢讲它是统战平台 |
| 00:08:02,280 | 00:08:05,200 | 所以现在是不是昭告我们全台湾的 |
| 00:08:05,200 | 00:08:09,200 | 好这个台湾的企业或者是退休的 |
| 00:08:09,200 | 00:08:11,200 | 退休或退下来的政务官 |
| 00:08:11,200 | 00:08:13,240 | 都可以去参加是这个意思吗 |
| 00:08:13,240 | 00:08:14,520 | 是委员 |
| 00:08:14,520 | 00:08:17,320 | 如果您如果说有人检举 |
| 00:08:17,320 | 00:08:18,920 | 我们都会来受理 |
| 00:08:18,920 | 00:08:19,960 | 我不会检举 |
| 00:08:19,960 | 00:08:21,040 | 我不会那么无聊 |
| 00:08:21,040 | 00:08:23,280 | 我只是要问你们的定义 |
| 00:08:23,280 | 00:08:25,840 | 因为你们的定义不能新潮流说了算 |
| 00:08:25,880 | 00:08:28,239 | 我刚才讲李退之也好洪其昌也好 |
| 00:08:28,239 | 00:08:29,679 | 都是新潮流的 |
| 00:08:29,679 | 00:08:32,000 | 然后他们退下来都在游走两岸 |
| 00:08:32,000 | 00:08:32,720 | 跟委员报告 |
| 00:08:32,720 | 00:08:34,000 | 他们游走两岸没有问题 |
| 00:08:34,000 | 00:08:37,000 | 那别人去卖水果到中国大陆就有问题 |
| 00:08:37,000 | 00:08:38,720 | 我现在关心的是这个部分 |
| 00:08:38,720 | 00:08:40,159 | 我了解谢谢委员 |
| 00:08:40,159 | 00:08:44,199 | 委员我们把它定位成统战平台的 |
| 00:08:44,199 | 00:08:46,800 | 我们陆委会从2012年 |
| 00:08:46,800 | 00:08:48,520 | 每次都讲就是海峡论坛 |
| 00:08:48,520 | 00:08:50,040 | 一直到现在也没改变 |
| 00:08:50,040 | 00:08:53,040 | 而且是从马总统时代就开始呼吁 |
| 00:08:53,040 | 00:08:54,800 | 不要去这个统战平台 |
| 00:08:54,839 | 00:08:56,959 | 我们只有针对海峡论坛 |
| 00:08:56,959 | 00:08:57,439 | 好 |
| 00:08:57,439 | 00:09:00,280 | 所以你们现在只针对海峡论坛 |
| 00:09:00,280 | 00:09:02,240 | 像金台客气论坛里面 |
| 00:09:02,240 | 00:09:04,959 | 参加的这个大陆的官员 |
| 00:09:04,959 | 00:09:06,120 | 一样的事啊 |
| 00:09:06,120 | 00:09:08,439 | 就是要大家共同完成 |
| 00:09:08,439 | 00:09:12,359 | 祖国统一大业的这样的这个说明啊 |
| 00:09:12,359 | 00:09:13,120 | 谈话啊 |
| 00:09:13,120 | 00:09:14,120 | 所以这个都没有 |
| 00:09:14,120 | 00:09:15,880 | 都不算是统战平台 |
| 00:09:15,880 | 00:09:18,520 | 在这个金台论坛里面 |
| 00:09:18,520 | 00:09:21,760 | 大陆官员参加也一定都会讲 |
| 00:09:21,760 | 00:09:22,040 | 好 |
| 00:09:22,079 | 00:09:26,719 | 这个是就是两岸要共同完成祖国统一大业 |
| 00:09:26,719 | 00:09:29,480 | 那这样子的论坛不算是 |
| 00:09:29,480 | 00:09:31,079 | 不算是统战平台 |
| 00:09:31,079 | 00:09:33,280 | 在陆委会的定义里面不算是 |
| 00:09:33,280 | 00:09:33,640 | 对不对 |
| 00:09:33,640 | 00:09:35,199 | 因为现在只有海峡论坛 |
| 00:09:35,199 | 00:09:36,319 | 如果有人检举 |
| 00:09:36,319 | 00:09:37,839 | 我要弄清楚啊 |
| 00:09:37,839 | 00:09:38,000 | 好 |
| 00:09:38,000 | 00:09:38,880 | 如果说委员 |
| 00:09:38,880 | 00:09:40,480 | 我就跟你讲啊 |
| 00:09:40,480 | 00:09:41,959 | 我我不会检举 |
| 00:09:41,959 | 00:09:43,680 | 因为我是要来质询啊 |
| 00:09:43,680 | 00:09:43,920 | 是 |
| 00:09:43,920 | 00:09:45,280 | 我是要来质询 |
| 00:09:45,280 | 00:09:48,480 | 因为很多的企业也好 |
| 00:09:48,480 | 00:09:49,760 | 民众也好 |
| 00:09:49,760 | 00:09:51,280 | 人民团体也好 |
| 00:09:51,280 | 00:09:56,280 | 他不知道什么时候就变成我们陆委会 |
| 00:09:56,280 | 00:09:59,240 | 所谓你被统战的好对象 |
| 00:09:59,240 | 00:10:01,160 | 然后要被调查啊 |
| 00:10:01,160 | 00:10:03,240 | 那对于农民团体来讲 |
| 00:10:03,240 | 00:10:05,040 | 他参加个海峡论坛 |
| 00:10:05,040 | 00:10:06,839 | 他就要被调查 |
| 00:10:06,839 | 00:10:08,839 | 那对于这个红旗枪来讲 |
| 00:10:08,839 | 00:10:12,160 | 数十他还可以参加金台科技论坛 |
| 00:10:12,160 | 00:10:13,800 | 他不用被调查 |
| 00:10:13,800 | 00:10:14,600 | 那是不是我 |
| 00:10:14,600 | 00:10:15,680 | 所以我就要问啊 |
| 00:10:15,680 | 00:10:18,839 | 因为我们很多的人民很怕去触犯 |
| 00:10:19,080 | 00:10:22,000 | 所称的被统战吗 |
| 00:10:22,000 | 00:10:25,120 | 这个大帽子一戴下来啊 |
| 00:10:25,120 | 00:10:26,760 | 这是王委员啊 |
| 00:10:26,760 | 00:10:28,320 | 这没法接受的 |
| 00:10:28,320 | 00:10:29,560 | 委员很关切 |
| 00:10:29,560 | 00:10:31,120 | 那我们会来了解啊 |
| 00:10:31,120 | 00:10:32,720 | 金台科技论坛 |
| 00:10:32,720 | 00:10:35,880 | 我要讲的是请你多了解啊 |
| 00:10:35,880 | 00:10:37,800 | 在民进党籍里面 |
| 00:10:37,800 | 00:10:40,760 | 我刚刚讲的两个刚刚好都是新潮流啦 |
| 00:10:40,760 | 00:10:42,280 | 都是新潮流啊 |
| 00:10:42,280 | 00:10:43,280 | 主委也是 |
| 00:10:43,280 | 00:10:45,520 | 然后我们的副主委梁文杰也是 |
| 00:10:45,520 | 00:10:47,840 | 我要讲的统不统战 |
| 00:10:47,840 | 00:10:49,960 | 不应该陆委会说了算 |
| 00:10:49,960 | 00:10:52,480 | 或者是新潮流说了算 |
| 00:10:52,480 | 00:10:54,440 | 不要有双标 |
| 00:10:54,440 | 00:10:55,520 | 不要有双标 |
| 00:10:55,520 | 00:10:58,440 | 我们会为了今天针对 |
| 00:10:58,440 | 00:11:00,880 | 今天要针对哪一个 |
| 00:11:00,880 | 00:11:02,680 | 针对姚庆龄也好 |
| 00:11:02,680 | 00:11:04,240 | 针对这个 |
| 00:11:04,240 | 00:11:06,920 | 我们这个特别的这些盟会也好 |
| 00:11:06,920 | 00:11:07,640 | 然后呢 |
| 00:11:07,640 | 00:11:10,920 | 动辄用这种所谓的统战的大帽子 |
| 00:11:10,920 | 00:11:13,280 | 我要讲的难以承受之重 |
| 00:11:13,280 | 00:11:15,360 | 其实他们做的事情都是一样的 |
| 00:11:15,360 | 00:11:16,840 | 一个想要去卖咖啡 |
| 00:11:16,840 | 00:11:18,480 | 一个想要去卖水果 |
| 00:11:18,480 | 00:11:20,320 | 他们的行为有什么差别呢 |
| 00:11:20,320 | 00:11:23,320 | 只是因为他们政党不同流派不同报 |
| 00:11:23,320 | 00:11:24,960 | 是我们遇到证据 |
| 00:11:24,960 | 00:11:25,840 | 谢谢委员 |
| 00:11:25,840 | 00:11:27,840 | 王宏威委员 |
| 00:11:27,840 | 00:11:28,200 | 谢谢 |