| IVOD_ID |
17083 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17083 |
| 日期 |
2025-12-01 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-35-19 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第19次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
19 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
35 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
外交及國防委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第19次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-12-01T08:31:05+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-12-01T13:20:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
04:48:55 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/7a505bc1fba11f2d76fe48d3caea90abdbed544b35c5f3cab4456b5c46cbb78cce13ba82d0c2946d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-12-01T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第19次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國防部部長顧立雄報告「軍人薪資待遇結構現行作法檢討及未來調整規劃」，並備質詢。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:31:05 - 13:20:00 |
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報告委員會初期委員9人已足法定人數 |
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1763.018 |
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1790.821 |
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現在開始開會請議事人員宣讀上次會議議事錄立法院第十一屆第四會期外交及國防委員會第十八次全體委員會議議事錄時間中華民國一百一十四年十一月二十六日星期三上午九十一分至九十七分地點黃樓森林議會議室出席委員沈伯陽等十人列席委員林倩琦等三人請假委員黃仁列席人員國防部常務次長楊基榮及所屬人員主席王昭吉委員定語 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1791.642 |
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1808.293 |
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報告事項 宣讀上次會議議事錄決定確定 討論事項審查人民請願案9案依孟俊衛建請增訂老舊眷村改建條例第28條之一條文以解決不願再依老舊眷村改建條例再改建縣戶土地讓售肆意請願文書案 |
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1809.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1837.94 |
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二 中華民國823戰役戰友總會未建請823戰役參戰官兵晚年生活照顧特別條例建築排入議程請願文書案三 吳軍衛有關軍人臨改相關修法事陳請請願文書案四 余軍衛建請修正國軍島舊郡村改建條例相關條文以補償整村整建之受害眷戶請願文書案五 周軍衛建議修正國軍島舊郡村改建條例規定 |
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1838.447 |
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1868.085 |
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请愿文书案6 邝军卫建议修正陆海空军惩罚法条文请愿文书案7 李军卫建请修正陆海空军军官事关服役条例第46条及第52条条文请愿文书案8 李军卫建请修正陆海空军军官事关服役条例第46条及第52条条文续请请愿文书案9 张军卫建请修正正念陆海空军军官事关服役条例第26条条文超时工作补偿金 |
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1869.041 |
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1882.238 |
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請願文書案決議以上個案均不成為議案依立法院職權行使法第67條第二項規定續名理由及處理經過送程序委員會報請院委員會存查並通知請願人宣讀完畢 |
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1892.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1903.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
請議事人員宣讀報告事項報告事項 邀請國防部部長顧立雄報告軍人薪資待遇結構現行做法檢討及未來調整規劃並備質詢 宣讀完畢我們現在介紹在場委員及與會官員首先介紹陳永康陳委員以及我們國防部顧立雄顧部長 |
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1921.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1948.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
副參謀總長執行官黃志偉 黃上將常務次長楊基榮 楊次長全民防衛動員署副署長兼執行長林淳美 林副署長總督察長是盧建忠總督察長石文龍 石參事政務辦公室孫立芳 孫主任 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1949.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1962.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
政治作戰局 史順文 史局長軍備局 林文祥 林局長主計局 稅計處 陳偉廷 陳處長軍醫局 陳元浩 陳副局長戰略規劃司 黃文綺 黃司長資源規劃司 藍靜婷 藍司長法律事務司 吳益聖 吳司長 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1978.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1991.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
整合評估司苗慧芬 苗司長國防採購是趙雅萍 趙主任人事參謀次長是侯嘉倫 侯次長情報參謀次長是謝日昇 謝次長作戰及計畫參謀次長是連志威 連次長後勤參謀次長是李鳳翔 李次長 |
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2003.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2026.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
通信電子資訊參謀次長是謝俊山 謝次長訓練參謀次長是郭俊德 郭次長陸軍司令部 陳建義 陳參謀長海軍司令部 邱俊榮 邱參謀長空軍司令部 李慶然 李參謀長後備指揮部 薛淵權 薛參謀長憲兵指揮部 文念忠 文參謀長 |
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2034.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2051.235 |
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陸軍後勤指揮部 梁永坤 梁參謀長資通電軍指揮部 周文祥 周參謀長軍事情報局 李永康 李執行長電訊發展室 林振維 林執行長國防大學教育長 李承忠 李教育長國家中山科學研究院 李士強 李院長 |
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2064.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2067.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
人事室陳榮宏陳主任我們現在補充介紹羅美玲羅委員那請問在場委員對於上次會議議事錄有遺漏錯誤或需要更正之處如果沒有我們議事錄確定 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2088.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2099.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
本日會議邀請國防部部長顧立雄報告軍人薪資待遇結構現行做法檢討以及未來調整規劃並被質詢現在請顧部長上台報告主席 各位委員先進今天應邀至外交及國安委員會實施專案報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2118.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2147.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
承蒙各位委員對於國軍志願與官兵薪資待遇的關切在此表達誠摯敬意謝誠提高官兵待遇福利一直都是本部努力推動的工作並考量敵情威脅變化防衛專案需求及勤務專業特性與繁重程度等因素持續整體檢討修正各項勤務佳績本次透過專案報告讓大院委員及 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2149.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2171.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
國人了解國軍志願役官兵整體薪資待遇結構及未來調整規劃進行各位委員指導與支持接續由本部資源規劃司司長藍靜婷女士就軍人薪資待遇結構現行做法檢討及未來調整規劃向各位委員提出報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2179.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2200.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
委員 各位委員主席 各位委員先進居然新制待遇結構現行做法檢討及未來調整規劃一 前言為維護國防安全保障人民生命財產國軍除需二十四小時戰備執勤外更需經常性實施演訓及支援救災等任務無論工作之危險 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2201.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2223.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
艱困程度及服勤时间都具备高强度高风险之特性为了稳固国防战力本部透过调整薪资待遇以强化招募诱因及增进留营意愿以下就军人薪资待遇结构历年调整情形114年执行成果与未来调整规划实施报告 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2224.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2253.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
二 军人薪资待遇结构志愿役军人薪资待遇整体结构包含了基本待遇及各项加给说明如下一 基本待遇包含本凤 专业加给及志愿役加给二 担任主管职务可支领主管职务加给或上将职务加给三 服务地区为外离岛及高山地区可支领地域加给四 分发制战斗部队可支领战斗部队加给 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2254.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2276.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
五 从事海上及空中勤务 飞弹修护 特种勤务 空降特战及空中投送军医军法 电讯侦测 战术及航行管制 三军一队 网络作战 资讯处理军事监狱 外事联络及教官等工作 可依所占职缺则依支领勤务加急 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2278.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2293.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
3.歷年調整情形為照顧官兵權益本部自104至113年間已完成10項加擠增修訂並呈報行政院核訂後調整重點災報如下1.地域加擠 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2295.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2321.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
鑑於官兵服務於外離島地區受交通不便影響及生活成本偏高本部於106及107年分別調整離島地區月支數額112年配合行政院地域佳績合理化調整方案調整澎湖地區地域佳績月支數額113年將東營舉光地區地域佳績支令級別由外島三級調整至外島二級 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2322.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2349.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
二 勤務加擠為照顧從事危險性或技術性工作之官兵本部依其勤務特性增修訂七項勤務加擠說明如下一 戰鬥部隊加擠配合募兵制推動增加志願役人員制戰鬥部隊服役誘因一百零四年奉行政院核定新增第一類型戰鬥部隊加擠五千元及第二類型戰鬥部隊加擠三千元 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2351.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2363.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
106年 依各部隊屬性調整可納入第一或第二類型戰鬥部隊單位數量迄今歷經八次增訂發給單位可支領戰鬥部隊人數已達全軍比例約57% |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2365.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2387.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
二、網路站佳績,為培養從事網路勤搜、防護、反制等工作之人才,106年奉行政院核定新增網路站佳績,凡取得專業證照資格且具備攻防演練成果之官兵,可依證照等級、戰果時機比例,支領網路站佳績五千元至五萬元。 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2388.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2408.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
三 戰航管家級 鑒於台海周邊基建往來頻密 監控管理繁雜 為流用具備空中戰術及海上航行管制等技術人才106年奉行政院核定新增戰航管家級凡實際擔任戰管及航管工作之官兵 可支領戰航管家級4100元至6200元 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2411.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2434.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
四 電偵家籍電訊發展是為國軍專責電偵情報單位為掌握敵犯台徵喉預警之重要單位其情資分析人才之經驗與專長無可取代106年奉行政院核定新增電偵家籍凡從事電訊偵測情資分析衛星徵造判讀等工作之官兵可支領電偵家籍4100元至6600元 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2438.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2460.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
五 三军仪队加级三军仪队负责国家重大庆典 勤务考量其部队训练要求标准及维安风险系数等特性一百零六年奉行政院核定新增三军仪队加级凡仪队队员通过年度评鉴者可支领三军仪队加级三千元或五千元 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2461.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2479.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
六 空降特戰加擠 高空跳傘專長屬高難度 高風險之訓練項目人員培訓不易 為有效留用專業人才廣除師資總能109年奉行政院核定高空跳傘月資數額最高調整至15000元一般跳傘月資數額調整至7200元 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2484.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2503.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
七 軍法加緊 因應國防法律事務需要 113年於軍法人員勤務加緊表 新增國防法務官為支給對象凡從事法治訴願 法紀調查等國防法律事務工作之軍官 可支領軍法加緊4700元或5500元 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2506.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2529.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
三 主管職務加擠考量士官督導長擔任單位主管助手協助管理內部勤務繁重108年將各層級士官督導長的主管職務加擠調整比照同單位副主管之主管加擠數額給予八成以健全士官制度穩定發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2531.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2552.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
4.專業家級省市整體士官制度各層級士官長對於部隊管理的熟練度及專業經驗並不亞於同單位軍官109年將士官長各階專業家級月資數額調整比照軍官中位之少校專業家級數額發放以實質增加士官長薪資待遇 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2554.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2578.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
四 114年執行成果 近年受少子化趨勢影響可增藝男及畢業學生人數逐年減少為鼓勵志願軍人長留久用 同時吸引社會青年投身軍旅本部自113年起 全面審視志願役整體薪資待遇結構提出五項加緊調整方案 軍獲行政院核定生效實施 說明如下 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2579.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2598.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
一 為充實志願役人力並鼓勵官兵前往戰鬥部隊服役114年本部研提志願役勤務加擠及戰鬥部隊加擠調整方案並獲行政院核定自114年4月1日起生效凡志願役現役軍人不論官科志願役加擠調整為13000元至15000元 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2601.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2611.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
另服役於戰鬥部隊之志願役官兵第一類型戰鬥部隊加給調整至一萬兩千元第二類型戰鬥部隊加給調整至七千元 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2612.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2633.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
二 為鼓勵高專人才長留久用本部另嚴提三項勤務加擠調整方案以分別獲行政院核定制114年6月1日及7月1日其生效說明如下一 網路站加擠網路站場經營屬高度機敏承受精英人才培育不易 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2633.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2653.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
为提高流营诱因并鼓励官兵踊跃考取证照及取得战果114年6月1日奉行政院核定调增专家级月资数额1万元并将专家级精英级可支令人数比例由15%提高为30%二战航管家级 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2653.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2671.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
今年中共不斷於台海周邊執行演訓活動而海空軍雷達戰各級空管中心與自通電軍為我國勤監偵應處第一道防線考量戰航管人員勤務大幅增加114年7月1日奉行政院核定月資數額調整為5100元至11200元三 電偵加擠為因應 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2679.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2684.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
敵情動態擴張電展示爭獲情報訊息數量較往年增加57%橫著其任務監控及偵搜環境特性114年7月1日奉行政院核定月支數額調整為4100元至13600元 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2698.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2711.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
檢視本部待遇調整規劃實施後志願役人數呈現成長趨勢經統計至114年10月志願役現員較去年成長2000餘元薪資待遇提升已有成效 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2713.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2733.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
五 未来规划调整规划一 为持续照顾官兵本部研拟增修订战斗部队加级战航管加级与反情报勤务加级等方案于114年8月至10月间分别呈报行政院审议中持续掌握核定进度说明如下一 战斗部队加级 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2735.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2749.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
無人機及火力部隊暫時將建立全時段戰場監控體系針對敵高價值目標實施攻擊本部評估其任務特性符合行政院核定制戰鬥部隊定義嚴尼支領第一或第二類型戰鬥部隊佳績 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2751.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2767.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
二陸海空軍飛行部隊機務人員防空戒護部隊及資訊通信連隊等單位本部評估其從事戰鬥支援任務符合行政院核定之戰鬥部隊定義嚴齡支領第二類型戰鬥部隊加級 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2769.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2784.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
二 战航管家级自通电军所属通知站台协同海空军雷达站从事之通信战术管制等工作本部评估其任务特性符合行政院核地之战航管勤务定义严离支领战航管家级 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2785.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2810.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
三 反情報勤務加緊軍事安全總隊為國軍唯一反情報專業部隊系鞏固內部安全不可或缺的重要單位為提升流營誘因本部評估其勤務繁重艱困程度嚴厲新增反情報勤務加緊四 為鼓勵士官勇於向上派職本部課陣研議士官督導長分級制度並依其階級結構持續檢討各項加緊 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2814.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2832.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
二、本部将依敌情威胁、防卫作战需求及勤务专业特性与繁重程度持续检讨修订各项勤务佳籍、支领的对象、种类及发给金额以增加志愿艺人员留营意愿同时吸引民间优质人才投身军旅 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2834.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2857.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
六 結語感謝大院支持與指導軍人承擔國家安全的重要任務職業特性與其他行業不同其能透過合理薪資調整待遇在落實戰訓工作的同時也能照顧官兵及眷屬以確保戰力能有效發揮以上報告敬請各位委員先進支持與指教謝謝謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2863.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2878.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
我們現在開始詢答本會委員8加2分鐘非本會委員6分鐘10點30分截止發言登記如果臨時提案請於10點30分之前提出11點左右處理現在請羅美玲委員上台質詢謝謝主席有請顧部長請顧部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2896.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2906.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
是 羅委員好部長早 部長今天我們要來談的是軍人的薪資待遇結構的問題其實從2000年以來 軍公教薪資補調了6次近年2022年2024年各調了4%然後114年再調3其實這5年來整個調幅大約來到11.4% |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2921.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2938.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
那今年四月份的時候呢還調升了紀念印加級跟戰鬥部隊加級那基層的這個作戰的官員這個官兵呢每個月最多呢可以來到這個一萬二是作戰單位呢歷年來呢這個條幅最最大的一次那 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2940.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2954.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
剛剛我看這個報告的時候其實我們為了高專人才的長留久用所以今年的6月、7月我們又個別調升了網路站佳績、帳範管佳績跟電證佳績 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2956.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2975.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
其實整個報告我們都提到家籍的這部分可是也讓我們發現就是說其實官兵實際上的待遇是靠各式的家籍堆疊起來了反而是本縫是偏低的之前我有看到一個媒體在記說像稍微志願第一年為例 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2976.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2981.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
本縫是22,750加上專業佳績20,750支援業佳績15,000然後就會達到58,500元所以我們可以看到呈現的就是說這個佳績多於本縫的現象當然我也看到也有人最近在討論就是說國軍的整個薪資結構的問題有提到一個問題就是說如果一調職的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3000.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3008.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
那是不是說他的薪水會掉了一大半那再來呢升官未必加薪等等的這些問題我想請教一下部長當初我們國防部的這個設計整個這個薪資結構的設計的考量是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3016.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3030.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
我想如果參照這個軍人待遇條例來看的話因為它的本縫這個部分是屬於軍公教人員的一體的一個基本待遇 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3032.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3047.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
各階級的縫及縫點都有一個跟軍公教人員的一個橫平性的規範所以如果就軍人本縫來講它是整個連動所有公教人員的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3048.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3062.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
你是說條新的這個部分嘛對不對本縫的部分是軍公教就一體連動的嘛那就這個你剛問到說那所以在這個軍人待遇條例在這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3064.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3083.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
他就裡面就會提到就是說家籍那家籍我們特別提到那個現在大家可能討論比較多的就是勤務家籍這個部分勤務家籍這個部分的話我們主要是對於從事危險性或技術性高的然後或一起勤務的特性這當然包括他的 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3084.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3106.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
可能高專業性等等的我們就從這個勤務佳績來留住這一個有從事這些危險性或技術性工作的或者是職務比較繁重的或者是具有高專能力的這些人這樣子的一個結構來進行這個軍公教的一個待遇的一個整體規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3108.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3128.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
所以看得出來當然我們從這個加息可以看到說我們是特定的單位特定的職種我們來做這個加碼所以部長認為說其實這種親自設計它是有誘因的是不是它這個設計當然就是說以你們這樣看的話國軍每一個單位它的勤務繁重程度不一樣它的專業性不一樣它的 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3129.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3145.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
這個危險性不一樣那如果每一個人心智都一樣的話那當然有可能大家都會不願意去往這個危險性高技術性高技術性高容易被拉走嘛對不對或高專業性的容易被拉走 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3146.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3169.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
那麼危險性高的那麼如果都拿一樣那為什麼要從事危險性或者這個事務比較繁重的部分的話那當然他也會考量他的相關的待遇所以這個可能我們在國軍在設計這個薪資待遇的時候要從各面向那參酌很多的意見然後我們來做一個整體的規劃考量這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3169.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3185.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
所以我們是當然這個觀念可以理解只是說大家說本縫是比較低的我們幾乎都是把這個重點都擺在佳績的部分當然部長剛剛的解釋本席能夠接受就是說OK我們剛剛有提到就是說其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3187.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3210.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
就要帶到下面那一題了那我有看到今天的報告裡面有提到就是說好 像陸海軍飛行部隊機務人員防空戒護部隊及資訊通信聯隊等單位本部評估其從事之戰鬥支援之後所以符合行政院核定之戰鬥部隊定義所以呢研擬支領第二類型戰鬥部隊佳績其實我發現這個問題的時候是來自於這個審計部 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3215.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3228.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
其實省紀部今年它在查核的時候發現一開始我們在做設計的時候並沒有把這個陸海軍飛行部隊機務人員跟防空接護部隊拉進來是不是因為省紀部今年查核發現所以我們才認為說確實是 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3231.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3234.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
因為確實我們可能在整個設計當中可能會漏掉了一些可能其實就是符合第二類戰鬥部隊佳績的像之前的話我們只是只有給空軍坐在聯隊的地勤維修人員或是武掛人員來領這第二類的戰鬥部隊佳績可是像陸海軍航空部隊的部分其實它是屬於同類型可是卻沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3256.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3278.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
而是審計部這邊發現查核發現我們才納入是不是這樣子一開始設計的時候並沒有把他們拉進來對不對行政院有一個戰鬥部隊的一個定義那戰鬥部隊的定義它包括的是直接跟敵軍從事作戰部隊或協同作戰部隊來提供戰鬥資源的那因為現在我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3281.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3295.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
漸漸都朝一個聯合作戰的一個形態來發展所以在聯合作戰形態發展的一個就是說這種概念之下我們確實是要越來越多的檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3299.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3327.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
這個戰鬥部隊包括了第一類的戰鬥部隊跟第二類的戰鬥部隊的一個這個定義那這個部分要做一個全面性的檢討這個是確實是我們應該要來努力當初是疏忽的部分是不是因為本來 我本來還想說這次的話想要問一下說到底有沒有納入可是我看報告裡面說你們也要納入嘛所以一開始設計的時候就沒有把這個陸海陸海軍航空部隊的這個拉進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3328.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3352.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
所以有很多的家籍做出來之後還是有一些繼承的弟兄會認為為什麼我們沒有像我們有看到第一類第二類的戰鬥部隊目前大概有七萬五千人他是符合這個資格的可是只佔了職業運的一半其他的都是後勤跟幕僚 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3353.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3377.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
那難道後勤跟幕僚其實他們就沒有納入了嗎如果是說按照部長的這個說法可能他們的工作可能就不是屬於聯合作戰部隊的一部分可是後勤跟幕僚其實這個他們就說很多家籍其實他們是領不到的我們設計了很多的家籍其實是領不到的那後勤人員他們也覺得說他們也很辛苦啊像這個的話以後的設計我們會有怎麼樣的一個規劃跟調整嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3380.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3402.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
我剛講聯合作戰的定義的話應該是會比較擴大因為在聯合作戰的概念之下後勤單位的話我們就現在在這個整個薪資待遇的整體結構我們會重新檢視這個戰鬥部隊的定義所以就後勤單位我們會來持續檢討修正這些支領的對象金額跟他的種類 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3403.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3427.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
所以這個部分的話未來會擴大來做納入的意思對不對目前是沒有所以當然基層可是還是有一點聲音他說其實說他們也都很辛苦也是24小時在待命可是為什麼有些家籍他們就是領不到所以這個部分的話我在想國防部還是要重新來做一個調整跟規劃因為還有一點因為剛剛大家都有在提到就是說這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3429.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3451.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
事實上叫戰鬥部隊的第一類型的話整個陸軍在裝甲旅以下或者是炮兵營等等這些都是屬於戰鬥部隊所以戰鬥部隊的定義避免就是說因為現在一直有人在講說升級反而降薪 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3452.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3475.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
那所以我們必須要整體的來考量戰鬥部隊的定義因為在當時在核定戰鬥部隊的定義的時候比如說雙甲旅就是屬於直接參與戰鬥的那到底在什麼樣的一個程度在合乎這樣的一個定義之下這個戰鬥部隊的一個佳績要發放到哪一個層級我想這是值得來做整體的規劃跟檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3477.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3494.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
OK 好 謝謝 謝謝部長那最後一題我想請教就是說從115年起呢機運加急像立法院通過了明年1月1號施行一律是加3萬部分關節部分植物這個植物類型那這對我們未來的這個軍事的部署跟裝備的這個有沒有有什麼影響嗎這會影響到我們未來的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3498.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3518.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
這個預算的這個長期的壓力這個部分國防部的立場應該是我們還是會持續來加強這個軍人的待遇但是我們希望就是說能夠橫著他從事的任務艱困繁重的程度還有他的專業的特性所以其實國防部司法爹這種齊頭式的這個發放是不是我們希望來檢視整個包括了 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3524.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3550.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
這些各項勤務佳節還有戰鬥部的定義我們會來做一個整體的規劃來讓大家都願意到這個我們認為可以大家都需要到的一個地方我們需要到那大家也都認為是一個好的一個具有這個整體跟平衡的規劃這樣子的一個方向OK 好 以上謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3556.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3559.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
謝謝現在請許巧欣委員上台質詢謝謝主席我們是不是有請顧立雄顧部長請顧部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3579.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3593.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
是徐仁豪部長好首先在你們的報告裡面關於軍人薪資待遇結構裡面你們有提到幾點第一個基本待遇你們提到是本縫加專業家級加志願役的家級以及另外提到了戰鬥部隊家級 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3595.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3619.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
但是呢以上的這個相關的加級在原本軍人條例修正之前它是只放在勤務加級之下的那現在你們的報告框架呢等於說是按照新法但是呢明年度的預算卻沒有第一個我想要質疑的事情是哪有人執行法律呢只執行一半的所以呢我想今天是表達一個態度跟立場 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3620.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3637.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
就是去年我們通過的軍人待遇條例就應該要依法行政因為裡面不僅僅是有志願役的加級的調整還有未來該何時檢討等等的規定甚至很多基層的官兵都在詢問有沒有辦法訂定超時加級 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3638.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3653.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
行政院去把這個問題丟給憲法法庭但是在憲法法庭給予回覆之前他都應該要是一個三讀通過的法律被執行否則以後如果有人不想當兵他也寫一個理由送去憲法法庭 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3654.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3669.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
那他可以告訴你啊在憲法法庭回覆跟裁決之前那我都有權利不當兵那不就天下大亂了嗎所以當行政院帶頭違法亂政那當然這不是國防部長一個人可以決定的事情所以我想在這裡表明立場 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3670.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3693.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
未來相關法律的執行預算層面還是要整個立法院跟行政院再來協商但是請不要忘記賴清德總統講到就是說中共2027年可能要武統台灣等等如果我們對官兵的照顧卻如此苛刻甚至連依法行政都沒有那會多讓人寒心這是我在這裡表達立場那今天主要要詢問的問題是有關於這個海昆號 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3696.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3720.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
那關於進報他所獨家這個報導的這個新聞提到最近一次的海上測試包含是這個艦上的毛跡損壞出港的時候沒有毛那這個根本是政治性的海測拿全體的船員生命開玩笑也將造價256億元的首艘原型艦安全當兒媳我剛引用的是這個報導的內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3723.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3738.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
那台船做了一些解釋我們都有看到包含什麼呢傳播法不定義軍艦啊沒有安全儀力啊然後有旁邊有其他的兵力戒護等等那我有幾個問題要問第一當天海昆號測試的時候毛巾是否為損壞的狀態 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3743.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3765.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
委員長 海軍參謀長報告當天他的毛巾是在原廠在做一個對 他在調教嘛 對不對那他是不是因為壞了所以拿去調教那這個事情是什麼時候知道的呢在海上測試之前就知道了吧在規劃那天定義出去做海測之前就知道毛巾是損壞的狀況然後在原廠調教吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3767.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3793.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
對 它當初就是原廠它在做測試的時候它自己發覺有些元件要做必要的更換要做必要的更換嘛所以我覺得這個事情是這樣子既然它有要修正的地方壞了要調校那為什麼你今天海上測試的時候不是等它調校完畢之後準備好了再出海測試呢這到底是本來就台船或海軍我們都不在意還是呢覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3795.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3800.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
用這樣的方式加速然後呢 不顧大家的安全這件事是可以被接受的 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3802.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3828.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
跟委員報告 那潛艦用的毛他一般是在這個潛航的時候 他是不會用這個毛那他一般用於在航進這個狹窄水域或是進出港的時候那你還是不是需要嘛跟委員講 他是一個多元備變的手段 因為對啊 那你還是不是需要嘛你這樣講的話 航道不需要 那就別裝啦那他有沒有必要性嘛 我看永昂將軍都在搖頭 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3830.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3855.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
你說裝這個毛沒有必要性毛巾沒有必要性這是你現在講的你現在告訴我們說海昆號上面不用裝毛巾也沒關係你的意思是這樣你要注意你的說法你的意思是告訴全台灣的民眾海昆號上面沒有毛巾也無所謂你是要做這樣的定義嗎我跟委員先報告他有一個先決條件就是說它的主要動力跟備用動力的系統是正常的 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3856.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3877.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
他的毛巾然後還有他當天我們左營高雄港是有做全程的所以他其實實際上對海昆號來說是必要的東西嘛但是你們在測試的時候你們當時他就是壞了所以在原廠調校沒有然後呢你們認為自己經過評估之後測試還是OK所以就去測試了不是這樣子嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3878.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3896.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
那是經過嚴密的這個很嚴密 好那既然日後要回專為什麼要急著出港那你今天講說旁邊有介乎就想吵吵了事這個對在船上的這些船員測試員當中他們會認為你們根本沒有把人家的生命當一回事這就是在碰運氣 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3898.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3923.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
根據委員報告 我們這個評估是專業團隊 台船 國外技協還有最終使用者 船上的官兵是一起跟我們做評估如果你認為船上的使用者大家都這麼的接受的話今天又和有哪些人會覺得就是受不了然後向進報去做這樣子的爆料而且是符合事實的呢我要講的事情是說你今天台船大言不慚的去引用船舶法說它不包含艦艇 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3924.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3942.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
但是對艦艇來說其實我們會希望它是更加的嚴格而不是更鬆散它本來就是必要的航安設備如果這樣的測試是可以被接受的那以後是不是所有的海測你們都可以在沒有毛機的情況下測試國防部可以接受甚至海昆號完成以後出海 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3944.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3955.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
沒有毛巾國防部也要接受嗎以後出海的時候不是測試喔完成以後出海我毛巾壞了我照樣開出去無所謂這是今天國防部要給我們的態度嗎跟委員報告艦艇有區分兩種狀況一種是它完成成軍服役的服勤艦 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3965.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3977.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
它是完整的服勤艦毛巾是一個重要的一樣是選項裝備但是有的替代方案另外海昆現在在建造階段你說的替代方案在當天海上測試的時候有嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3978.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4004.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
有提供方案就是我剛有提到主電力 墮機跟相關應變的措施都所以你的意思還是一樣啊完整的潛艦已經完備之後就算是已經測試完交艦之後你認為海空號上面沒有毛巾國防部可以接受報表員這不是 他現在正在做測試是啊 在測試的時候對於安全來說當然也很重要我問你一個問題喔今天你要做測試是不是要講求數據正確 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4007.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4018 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
所以要看哪種的監測環境對 你要不要講求你今天測試的時候數據是你測試的時候各項的數據是符合到時候你交件以後你所得到的內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4019.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4043.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
不需要要看條件之下因為他這次出去做的是比較並不需要很精準你們的海上測試都不需要很精準這個話我們在國會殿堂上也可以講得出來那所有全民聽到你們這樣講之後會覺得你們的海上測試做的是嚴謹的嗎現在大家希望是一個嚴謹的測試我告訴你上一次是什麼沒有你記得嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4045.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4063.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
什麼東西是跟人家借來裝的我們自己沒有潛望鏡這一次是什麼沒有毛巾沒有下一次是什麼沒有不知道每一次都丟三落四的少東少西的那這樣子我就問你剛剛講說測試不需要很精準的數據為什麼你會這樣講因為我簡單講你今天有沒有毛巾對於艦艇的整體重量有沒有影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4072.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4092.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
跟委員報告 剛才會跟委員報告他這次出去的主要測試目的就是在做他做高轉速我剛問你的問題沒有回答我嘛今天有沒有毛肌對於健體的整體重量有沒有影響對於健體的整體的重量有沒有毛肌有沒有影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4094.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4111.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
非常的低 配重有沒有影響配重船上會做自己的平衡跟配重配重沒有影響 平衡也沒有影響重心跟浮心的計算數據有沒有差異沒有 差異並不大你都說並不大 但是就是會有嘛對不對都會做統一考驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4111.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4116.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
你就是只是說因為你們覺得你們自己做現在的統一考量那就是你們說的算但是實際上你剛剛講的會有差異不管你今天差異多少它的測試數據跟你實際上面最後你得到的就是不一樣我們今天測試都是講求什麼我們希望你測試東西就是測試跟最終的結果是一樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4133.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4150.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
結果你少了這個毛巾之後我先不說你的安全性的問題以及船員你問船員每一個人已經要測試說我沒有毛巾但是我們覺得很安全所以我們這樣出去可不可以那請問他們怎麼回答你不可以但是大家的心情是什麼你們有沒有拿人家的生命當一回事他心裡有數啊那我剛剛講了嘛你今天不管說你的艦艇的重量配重 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4156.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4161.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
重心、浮心等計算數據你說影響維護起為但它就是有影響今天簽一法而動全身海昆號我們希望它是做好而且能夠安全然後呢而且是一個很好的潛艦所以對所有的測試我們都希望能夠用高標準跟高規格結果你告訴我的是一個說我們今天只要說寄寫所謂的你們的專業團隊認為沒有問題就出去了旁邊反正有兵力戒護等等的 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4183.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4204.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
那這個對大家來說今天台船的說法我必須說國防部未必要買單啊你今天應該是要監督台船萬無一失而不是說今天所謂的標準就是呢台船說了算台船來回應那下一次如果用的設備壞掉涉及重要安全的像這樣子的一個情況那你還要持續往外測試嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4207.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4223.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
跟委員報告 我是不是總統大概就三點第一點就是說我想秉持安全還是首要的考量所以我們每次的海測都有經過完整的主項評估會制定安全的規範跟風險管理來應處在符合安全條件下才會安排海上測試 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4224.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4241.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
就這一次的這個潛艦用錨是在一般潛航的時候並不使用它是在航經狹窄水域或進出港的時候因應緊急狀況作為減速使用是一個多重的備援選項之一那我們評估這個主動力 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4241.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4264.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
主被動力的系統正常那還有拖船警戒級伴護的兵力已經全程支援之下那個毛具他在這一次的這個護航測試不是一個必要的條件但我想潛艦在現在還在建造測試的階段那毛巾呢之後我們還是會在調教之後回裝之後我們會以護航 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4266.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4283.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
無航的方式來測試下毛跟起毛的操作功能所以等到回裝之後我們會配合什麼時候要回裝12月中要回裝所以這樣很清楚了我們會配合後續的海上測試會來執行SAT的驗收 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4287.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4304.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
因為你12月中你知道12月中毛基才要修好所以如果你今天你不先讓他出去的話你覺得你11月的海災你就要跳票了因為你出不去了所以你才說很安全那就讓他先出去否則的話照理來說他應該是要一起去測試的 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4305.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4318.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
報告你現在已經是12月1號了我的意思是說我們沒有在做任何政治性的海策你海策的時候是11月不是12月今天不是今天的海策的部長要完成全部的海策你們本來就已經跳票了事實上現在已經是做不到所以我們還是以秉持安全為首要的考量是說你11月要海策嘛對不對我們剛剛已經做了充分的說明了你上一次的時候是不是說你11月的時候要海策 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4333.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4346.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
所以說如果你12月的時候毛巾才要修好然後再裝上去然後才能做海測的話那又再跳票一次所以說為了要趕這個時間點來測試所以呢你就告訴大家說這個反正我們要去的地方沒有毛巾主動力系統安全所以還是讓他出去了那你想要避免大家來通緝說海空號再度跳票的結果在於你呢之後12月的時候又還是基本上還是得去做測試的嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4362.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4373.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
那既然要測試的話為什麼就是你沒有一個道理說毛巾在11月的時候這一次的海測上面如果我告訴你如果他是好的你會不會讓他去測嘛如果他本來就沒有要維修他本來就是好的你會不會讓他也一起去測嘛也不會嗎你就把他拔掉嗎你也不會這麼做啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4384.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4407.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
我還是再次強調我們都經過安全的評估我想沒有什麼要趕著要在幾月要進行你們基本上你們都會說沒有要趕我想這邊要正式的還是要否認有這樣的任何的政治性考量請委員能夠我告訴你如果今天這個毛巾他根本沒有壞掉他也沒有再調教的情況他上不上海昆號他測不測試他測試你們剛剛的說法非常清楚了 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4413.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4418.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
那就是因為它壞了所以它這次海測的時候沒有要下一次的時候再測不是很簡單的道理嗎所以我沒有要講說這是政治性海測這是船員然後他們向進報的報導裡面所說的我在意的是什麼第一 毛巾損壞的情況下的安全問題對於很多在船上測試的人來說他們是不舒服的 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4440.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4457.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
第二測試數據的問題就算你今天告訴我影響不大他就是有影響第三國防部的態度應該是要用最嚴厲最嚴謹的方式來監督台船而不是幫台船洗地最後就是人事問題我今天時間不夠我只講 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4459.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4466.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
為什麼只要涉及海昆號的人士更迭的速度都特別快台船從鄭文郎董事長之後又換了兩次董事長黃曙光走了 唐華掉崗位那對海昆號的相關資訊要怎麼銜接這個人士拼裝車是很難讓外界安心的 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4478.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4491.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
希望我們部長能夠針對海昆號相關測試的相關的人員讓他穩定下來不要再這樣子換來換去會讓大家感到非常的不安心因為時間有限的關係 謝謝好 謝謝接下來請陳永康委員上台質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4520.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4521.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
主席有請顧部長請顧部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4530.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4558.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
是 陳偉豪聽取了貴部今天有關行事結構以及一些加急的調整在過去本席跟部內同仁提出的建議有部分已經納入了那麼表達肯定那麼至於有一部分還有要討論的空間我們會在有不同的場域或者是不同的需求下委員也有不同的看法但是這個都可以做溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4559.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4586.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
在这边各位看到了我喜欢用表格来略述我不是用情绪化用文字来讲我们的主体本凤 专业家籍 志愿医家籍主观家籍 勤务家籍 地域家籍在今天的报告里面都已经纳入了但是政策方向希望还是逐渐提持薪资待遇因为本凤会影响到退伍金的比例 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4587.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4614.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
那么物资调整物价上涨未来因应军人安家跟安心信心不足这些东西虽然在特种家籍勤务家籍地域家籍升高了但是它调差以后有起伏有涨跌我们希望能够在本凤部分慢慢慢慢还是要维持成长我们国军遵循国防自主与持续武器的采购这里面很关键的就是人才 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4615.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4639.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
培训那么1.25兆的国防特别军事战国防自主的比例是多少我们希望了解到因为现在我看到的有一点就是我们的教育经费没有增加比例相对是小的你所有的东西到了不只是国军的基础教育 职参教育还有战略教育 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4641.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4668.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
你碰到這些所有武器作戰構想新的構想AI導入我們學校的課程都還來不及跟上因此你要有特聘的老師而不是用現階的軍職部隊完了掉到學校坐個輪這個要值得精進因為要有專業的我舉例來講你現在各種先進武器陸海空軍都有了可是你的子參教育的教材還沒有更新 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4669.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4696.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
那这个是需要赶快加度那么这个要提高比例如果学校的教育教材还不能跟上你在美国买了这么多先进的武器装备它的准则教范保养手册维修手册纪令还没有反映到我们的职餐教育那这个将来人才就会流失因为第一批出国受训的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4697.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4727.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
这个回来后两年三年调职升迁再接替两轮以后你就跟不上了虽然美方持续在派人在台湾但是我觉得这个要就是说教官的甚至特聘教官外面所有的学校都有特聘教官那特种聘荣誉讲座你要给这个弹性像我知道的台大政大这个阳明交大中央他们通通有这个哪怕是我们的当初的就是说 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4728.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4749.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
我們所謂的志願役在學校的這種教育他們也都有特聘教官所以這個部分要強化至於其他的部分大家共同努力我現在要談到一個問題就談一些預算的問題因為我們不管是參考北約的模式2030到2033這個依照2500億在談到預算的時候這裡面包括了 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4758.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4768.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
包括美國前任的亞太的助理部長他提到了我們有軍售 我們有商售 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4770.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4797.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
FMS DCS甚至有商售融资FMF那还有美国总统特种拨权的可是他的后续料配件我们是要付钱的那在这个里面商售的比例占比多少因为这么大的一笔预算部长你在这个合约里面你是专家有关商售的任何一个专案我们就是有关律师会计师从当年建农案1% |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4799.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4811.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
后续掌握的状况也许可以降到千分之五我要了解在这个里面这么多的重要案子国内国外国际合作有关商售部分的这个 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4813.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4840.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
律师费用这一定要贯彻在里面如果你到后面出了问题协商第三地仲裁那跟我们跟台川公司本身的细节合约就履约督导是很困难的这个一天罚19万100天才1900万1000天三年了才罚19亿那这个比例上完全不合理所以大家要了解到就是说你除了有标准的 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4842.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4869.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
5年兵力整建10年建军计划它是前后调整这里面这是国防部出来的图从公务预算然后战力提升2022到2026到2026到2023这里面讲到了几个重点你AI导入了你还没有纳入学校的教材里面我们真正的长官真正使用AI的不是专业单位就是说对AI的概念要深入了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4871.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4880.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
這張圖是國防部出的 我做一個建議你裡面AI輔助C5ISR請問C5ISR是什麼東西那指管通知網電信捐贈可是你少了一個T你知道嗎在國外叫C5ISRT你就是要加一個targeting |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4895.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4923.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
对因为targeting的这个时效在军种的不同的武器装备间的coordination它时间非常短可能短于30秒所以建议C5I SRT这是美国都在用的包括洛马洛格他们也来立法院拜会我们也都讨论过这些东西他们也在强调提供这个共同图像的重要性但是很多的就是属于界面的问题我们看到这个图现在大家强调这个IBCS洛格都讲它可以整合 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4924.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4943.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
这是一个构想跨军种的武器如果用别的sensor甚至一个地区的单位它能够下令接战你的ROE就战务令接战规定你是分散式还是有授权在这个所有的准则教范里面必须要出来 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4944.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4956.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
所以整體的畫面 C5ISRT非常重要因為包括你的海瑪斯 包括魚叉你的色層相近 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4957.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4973.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
那谁来打谁来授权你能够由作战区来指挥吗也不行所以你在横指佐德里面你还是要有一个完整的授权然后逐步授权到了某个阶段分配下去但是跨军种武器的控制还有一个整合比方讲 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4974.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5001.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
空军的这个工山跟美国的爱山这两个的界面不一样那如果美国的厂商介入进来提供协助那我们中科院的这个很多的技术规范是不是要掏出去这涉及到我们专利权的所以我们到现在还在讲一个共同图像可是我们现在所有的简报的图是用简图我没有看过可以把三种演训的图像套叠起来 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5002.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5029.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
我们做一个展示美方来的时候我也跟他们谈过了他们说这还要大家共同努力因为你基本的区域性的战略态势图不是雷琴显示图所以我们现在太空部分的能力还不谈我们只希望能够我们自己国产的监视的但是通信卫星还不能在自己手上掌握所以频道还是有限 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5030.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5047.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
所以你看這個圖各種海圖航圖衛星套疊你的區域安全的圖都顯示了以後這個時候我們台灣之盾才能夠堅實但在這次過程中間還缺少一項雖然在這個強化防衛韌性不對稱計劃採購特別條例一共770個字對 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5056.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5067.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
國家來言我們部內的這個首長各級長官那真是日理萬機但對美國而言那可是日復斗經因為770個字 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5071.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5093.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
依照2500亿每一个字是16亿2300万所以这个里面的每一个细节大家一定要定义清楚也就是说在这个2026到2033这中间除了C5ISRT以外你对水下监控水下战力反潜这边没有涵盖这个当然可以补足进去 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5094.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5122.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
最后就是说我们要一个完整的整合画面不同的单位包括我们内政部救灾事实上这个画面我前次也向其他单位提过了我们都可以用3D的图形把灾区防护然后交给陆军救灾的部队他可以看到一个完整的画面所以整合画面配合现在不管是洛马诺格IBCS所讲的 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5124.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5144.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
这个C5ISRT以外还要含括到水下反潜反制无人艇这个也是另外一个威胁我们的盾不能只能对付水平面跟空中包括水下要完整的监控我这个建言请部长您做参考部长请回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5144.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5169.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
我想謝謝委員指教我想因為這個防空的台灣之盾的部分我想應該著重在這個質管的這個部分就是說我們要讓質管的整個的這個在不管在決策或者是在這一個產生一定的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5170.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5196.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
從Sensor到Shooter的這個階段的時候那個指管的導入AI的一個輔助要能夠具有一個整合性也就是說在指管的這個整合性如果能夠越高那我們能夠進行的火力協調的分配就能夠越精確那接著下來我們做這個實施有效的一個攔截的成功率也會越高 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5197.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5225.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
所以我想在這個這個是純粹就防空的部分那麼委員所指教的指管通知網情監在家T的這個部分整個來講那當然是整個我們包括整個共同的作戰圖像這個其中也涵蓋了所有的情報後勤等等的這些圖像的一個全部的一個形成那這些形成我想還要再透過更大的一個努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5225.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5248.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
那這個當然不只是空中太空空中水地面水面跟水下我想這個部分是整個我們要防範整個防衛作戰的一個能力的一個提升的話這個CPSR如果再這樣踢的話那整個全面能力的提升這個當然還有待更進一步的努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5252.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5267.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
努力最主要就是還有一點我要強調這些所有先進的概念科技一定要趕快反映到我們的子彈教育跟戰略教育不然部隊拿到裝備學校的教材還沒有更新這個是我們要趕快加快努力的 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5268.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5289.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
是 這個我們跟國防大學之間要有一個更好的一個結合這是委員所一再提醒的我想國防大學在這部分我們要來盡速的來改革然後相關的這些教官他能夠跟我們的這些部隊 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5291.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5311.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
也好或者是跟我們的這些參謀跟我們的整個廣布本身的這些告示單位等等我想都要再做一個更緊密的連結才能夠整個知道我們現在防衛作戰的一個進程這樣子好 謝謝大家共同努力 謝謝謝謝接下來請黃仁委員上台質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5327.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5329.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
謝謝主席 有請顧部長是 黃委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5341.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5361.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
今天我們就講今天的報告中的一個新制的結構提到國進今年的加薪的方案和未來的規劃指出今年有一志願役勤務及戰鬥部隊的加級調整方案二是網路戰、戰航管和電偵三項勤務加級的一個調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5364.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5390.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
那未來的規劃會持續檢討修訂各項的請募的加急那部長今天我發覺我想你也發覺到國防部的加急方案和未來的規劃是什麼樣的特色關鍵就在國防部的所謂的加新全部透過加急的方式但是加急不是穩定的 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5391.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5408.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
穩定的本縫會受到各種條件的影響在新制的結構中具有不穩定的特殊性那很清楚的本席也了解國防部提出的加薪全部採取的是加級的方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5409.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5437.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
因為在這樣人才招募的時候可讓站面素性非常的好看但膨脹的多項加擠讓國人節的從今的薪資待意很好這根本是誤導視聽請問這位部長加擠到底加在加擠的薪資還是加在本縫的加薪最大的差別是什麼那個來 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5438.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5461.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
那個主席處你來回答這個問題是委員好其實依軍公教人員他待遇的基本的結構他就是包含了本縫跟專業家級所以本縫部分的調整他基本上軍公教他是一個依照階級跟職等一個橫平性的規定他不是單單只針對軍人的部分那 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5463.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5485.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
以軍職人員來講基本待遇就是比公教人員再多了一個志願役加級所以軍職人員的基本待遇基本上是本縫加上專業加級然後加上他的志願役加級這個才是他的一個基本待遇然後另外在針對軍職人員部分針對各個勤務的不同 設有不同的一個勤務加級 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5486.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5496.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
再由國防部依據這個勤務的專業性 艱困程度或者是它的任務的一個繁雜性來訂定這個加級的標準承包行政院核定實施所以你們的唱片上寫得非常的好看 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5501.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5521.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
我們今天講的也是核心的基數 核心的基數退伍之後的保障 本縫是計算退伍金和退休縫的核心的基數包含金人的保險的死亡 殘廢給付等 也是以本縫相關加緊 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5522.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5544.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
那在這個時候根本不被計算國防部在這個豐富的家計在人招募時一旦遇到了會思考人生未來的規劃的時候直接就會被當作是詐騙 乍看薪水不錯但是退伍後落差極大 保障不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5545.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5573.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
所以這就是你們現在要檢討的部分所有的新的結構你根本就是毀謠視聽嘛對軍人退伍以後或者是要加入國軍的行列裡面來講的話在加入的過程好像你們寫的賬目非常的很好但是退伍之後沒有什麼保障所以你再說明一下剛剛我回答的問題好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5575.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5597.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
包委員其實退伍以後就是公務人員公教人員退休公教人員退休跟軍人軍職人員退伍基本上都是用本縫來計算退休給予那在公教人員的部分目前他是計算前15年本縫的平均數來當成一個基數軍職人員是計算前 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5598.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5618.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
五年來當成一個平均的一個基數所以其實政府在整體的政策照顧上面對軍職人員的退伍的一個給予的計算其實已經比公教人員相對的寬鬆那我剛剛也跟委員報告因為軍公教的一個縫點縫級他是一個橫平性的一個規定所以如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5619.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5645.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
以目前的制度來講他沒有單單沒有辦法單單只去討論軍職的一個縫點跟縫級就是本縫的部分他需要軍公教一體橫評考量那也誠如委員所說很多保險的制度都是用本縫當成基數來給予但是他相對於就是官兵或者是其他公教人員他們自負的部分也是用本縫來計算因為時間因素你把這個數據明細的要給我一份 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5646.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5668.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
因為現在很多的國軍官兵裡面來講非常的不了解你們現在所橫算的基數裡面的核心的基數非常的不了解因為前面看得非常帳面不錯但是他退伍之後他的保障嚴重的不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5668.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5694.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
所以我本心認為加級的補充非常的重要但是根本的解決問題是還是在回歸到加薪回歸 加薪回歸到本縫中最低的限度的改革也應該要把常態性加級納入各項計算的基礎中讓國薪退伍後能有更符合它的保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5695.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5721.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
這是對這退休的時候他才會把本縫加進加進去以公式的計算來法我們主張加薪就是加本縫才能符合合理到時候你把這些明細要給我一份好不好是我們再整理好那另外一些另外提到這個國新今年的加薪的方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5723.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5728.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
本期之前有執行過希望花東地區的現役的 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5731.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5757.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
服役的官兵爭取的地域的一個家籍那上次我有特別提到本席認為家籍還是要回歸到他的目的的本質來討論國軍地域家籍的目的是什麼其實提供家籍的目的不外乎第一個人員的留任第二補貼生活費第三對於服務已艱困的地區的補償從 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5760.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5774.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
上述的目的來看花東地區的住居應該符合地域加級的資格我想部長有沒有思考這個問題我上次有提出但是你們的回文是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5776.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5798.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
在研議 回覆給我的是在研議那這個部分我們要為了國新的人員的留住那地性的花蓮也符合 為什麼因為本席是花東的地址在交通上我們每次會碰到什麼地震 天災我們的交通就是不方便 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5800.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5819.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
地區性的地域的花東的這個國新官兵在交通上就會阻礙到那整個來講的話是不是它也符合禮儀島包含偏鄉偏遠的地域的一個花東是不是符合條新部長你來回答這個問題108年我們有承包行政院會動了幾年 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5826.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5854.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
报告委员其实花农地区的一个东台地区的一个地域佳籍我们在108年的时候就有向行政院来争取那时候行政院是因为在79年的时候就已经冻结了这个东台地区的一个地域佳籍的金额跟对象所以没有把我们放进去但是我们虽然没有列入这个东台地区的一个现在是施工背景不一样你们现在的你们现在的边线比都已不足以八成 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5855.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5884.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
我們要留住在偏鄉或者在花東地域性的這樣的一個現役的部隊的軍人來講的話也應該要給他們一個保障這樣才可以留住你要有誘因嘛現在你們一直招兵不足的時候你們要如何在時空背景裡面去更改改變你們的做法才可以留住國軍官兵啊是不是你們要跟上層裡面再來報告嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5885.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5903.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
這是基層的反應啊報委員我是後製市市長向委員報告一下當然這個有這個獎金的部分是有對大家來說是有助益的可是我們要考慮到一件事情就是花東地區到其他地區去服務的人他一樣面臨這個交通的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5904.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5928.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
就是其他地區到化動地區面臨的問題化動地區出去一樣會面臨到這些問題這個部分上次有跟委員報告過我們要全面來檢討可是我們現在就是如同剛剛資源司司長報告的現在考量本島一致的橫平性已經不可以再編列這些相關的交通費用所以針對上次委員說我們要把地域加擠要再放進去這個部分我們現在還在研究中因為我們講一個交通就好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5933.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5952.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
我們在不管是航班就比金門的金門少很多在鐵路交通受到地震或颱風的影響的時候也就是一年中有三分之二的時間都處在中斷和半中斷的狀態所以這個就是我要提出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5953.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5969.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
讓大家知道國防部應該在時空背景裡面在整個的狀況邊線比不足的時候是不是我們要讓我們的國軍官兵要留住你也要誘因能夠讓他的心知本分加緊 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5970.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5984.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
都要非常的清楚這樣才是符合國軍要招募我們國軍國軍官兵的子弟兵來加入我們的國軍今天來講我們現在未來你們提出的一兆.25億的 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5987.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6002.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
這樣的一個狀況那好 我們新進的武器進來你們如何在邊線比部署的80以下能夠招兵買馬 能夠加入我們的國軍那這個就是你們要思考的問題部長 你回答一下這個問題好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6004.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6030.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
我想跟委員報告我想這個還是要做一個整體性的考量我們如果單純對花東地區做一個地域加緊那全國特別是在我們本島地區的服役有沒有形成一些另外衍生的一些效應我想我們要做一個整體的 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6030.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6057.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
你们整体的思考第一个我们重金买武器为什么不把这一些用在我们国金官兵得到他们更高的保障让他们都能够加入我们国金的行列来不管是加起不管是本凤都能够要重视而不是在重视于我们要买武器的这样的一个经费浪费我们的国家的公帑以上好 谢委员 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6062.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6070.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
謝謝黃委員 部長請回馬文君委員質詢謝謝主席 麻煩請部長有請顧部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6091.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6117.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
部長早部長我們今天訂了這個議題就軍人薪資待遇結構現行的做法跟未來調整的規劃因為我們已經三讀通過就是軍人在整個加薪的部分希望可以納入我們的預算裡面可是我們在明年居然都沒有編其實這個已經沒有依法行政我們現在看到今天的報告裡面因為我們是希望透過整個檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6119.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6141.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
可以讓軍人在待遇上面如何提升或者讓他們覺得這是符合對他們的重視我想這是我們在修法一個很重要的一個因素因為我們看到今天整篇報告很遺憾的就是說他大概都在講歷史然後還有目前性質的情形還有已經呈報行政院代審的項目因為我們根本不是要這樣子的一個報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6145.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6150.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
因為就我們在整個過程當中我想要請教一下因為報告裡面有提到國軍的加薪調整從過去曾經從三千到五萬都有想要請教不同的數字它依據是什麼來的什麼專業應該有什麼樣額度的依據是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6166.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6174.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
然後你參考相關的政府單位或者民間相關的專長還是證照的含金量都是以什麼樣來做標準然後每個專業如何能夠獲得該專業的加級你是怎麼區別或獲得晉升的這個等級 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6182.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6198.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
或者是任職就有還是要考專業的考試及格專業簽證合格獲得民間證照還是有戰功還是要有資歷我們都看不出來那你資歷越久加級越高還是專業越高證照數越多你加級會越多 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6200.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6217.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
或者是你作戰需求指的是什麼是指新編程的單位作戰的型態還是編線比因為我們看到目前的編線比即使我們增加了這樣的一個戰鬥加級還是沒有辦法留住人他的編線比還是偏低很多尤其低於我們的平均值這是 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6218.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6230.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
目前我們覺得可能在比較隱憂的部分可是我們在報告裡面完全沒有提到那國軍的戰鬥部隊指的是什麼是以兵科區分還是依層級排聯營旅軍團等級來綠定我們之前已經有提到過這個是非常不合理的現象我們看到這個表格 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6239.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6257.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
引擠連擠分成第一類跟第二類我們看到引擠其實他都已經是基優拔升為引擠士官督導長的薪資其實他都比連擠士官督導長還要低所以像這樣子你這樣的加薪方案讓大家的剝削感更重 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6258.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6261.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
如果說我們現在持續這樣一直沒有辦法深切的檢討我們這只是頭痛於頭腳痛於腳的一個做法那也更會打擊國軍的士氣我們也接到很多陳情啊他們覺得他們的工作也很辛苦他們有的甚至一個人要做好多人的相關的業務因為你的邊線比就是不足你的人力就是不足而且你現在不斷不斷的採購新式的武器你也需要優秀的人才 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6285.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6304.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
部長來自民間上法律專業的事務所如果你要聘請優秀的人員我相信薪資一定會是你們很重要的考量之一所以就這個部分我們未來有機會我們還是希望因為今天的報告完全沒有辦法討論所以我們還是希望可以重新再就這個議題我們再來做一個探討那 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6308.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6327.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
所以跟委員報告所以依照您這個表上面就會有提到就說已經四貫督導長他適應的薪資要比連級的第一類跟第二類都要來的低那所以如果說我們一體的全部加自願役的這個薪資的話會讓這個級距差異更明顯 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6328.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6332.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
不會啊那因為大家都加你現在是因為那結果你的銀四貫渡照長的薪水要遠比連籍的還要低這件事情還是會再發生所以我們的問題我們的問題就已經有在我們的第七有提到了就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6344.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6348.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
事關督導長的分級制度這個需要檢討所以我們依照他的階級結構來持續檢討這個有關相關督導長的這個薪資那這樣子的話才能夠具有向上這個走的時候他的薪資不會因此減少部長你的說法是錯的到時候請他們再給你詳細的一個說明報告因為中校營長也比少校連長還要低就是因為你的加級 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6370.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6379.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
沒有 你把引擠的包括相關幕僚人員這些其實你是沒有加擠的這個部分請他們再跟您詳細的做報告所以這個部分又涉及到戰鬥部隊的加擠的定義要到什麼樣的一個層級部長 我這個表格的內容絕對不是這樣這個請相關的那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6389.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6394.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
人員在跟您做詳細的報告因為我們今天就是發現有這樣的問題而且他就是因為我們修正以後才發生這樣的問題過去是沒有的旁邊說明一下是不是不是過去不是不是部長就這個部分他現在變成這樣的結構是因為加擠以後才發生的嗎以前會嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6414.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6442.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
報委員以前會嗎 簡單回答就好如果沒有你們加急的這個新的做法以後其實它之前有這樣的狀況嗎所以我們現在要來檢討啊不是 你請先說明報委員 當初我們會討量戰鬥部隊加急你告訴我們 還沒有實施之前你現在的做法它有沒有發生這樣的問題 有或沒有有或沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6445.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6448.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
有或沒有 你很清楚有或沒有回答這個就好以戰鬥部隊來講在我們這次加薪以後的確是有這樣子的狀況產生部長我要說的就是這個部分我們現在也在思考因為就是時空環境的改變謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6465.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6467.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
我剛剛要問的已經問完了部長因為我們的做法其實你有把它分類所以會造成這樣的狀況所以在很多我剛剛提到的有很多他們也覺得他們的業務量或者現在的整個 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6481.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6486.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
的調整我們應該要讓他們有一致性因為我們要的是讓他一致的增加我們所有的國軍當我們國防預算增加暴增這麼多的情況之下從3000億6000億到明年的一兆以上甚至還有很多的特別預算這都需要人力不管來操作武器裝備也好或者相關的業務量也好都需要人力當你在這些不斷的增加的情況之下你卻不願意 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6510.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6517.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
給更高的這樣的一個薪資我覺得這是不合理的而且會打擊他們士氣這是我們要強調的那因為時間的關係因為有機會我們會重新再安排做這樣的報告另外我想要請教的就是我們最近看到海昆號 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6529.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6536.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
他的新聞非常的多那剛剛其實徐委員也有特別提到我們現在在做第五次的這個扶航的測試我想要請教剛剛有提到因為船錨是船舶在緊急狀況底下的保密設備當機械故障停電操作失效的時候錨是最後能阻止船漂流的方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6555.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6558.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
船如果沒有錨 船在裝備故障的時候沒有辦法操作的時候 它就會陷入危險因此船錨是船舶重要的航岸裝備沒有裝海錨的船是不能出港的潛艦的錨跟水面艦的錨的功能是不一樣的基本上錨可以理解是船的最後煞車裝置 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6581.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6595.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
全世界的船舶法規 全世界的它含民船跟軍艦都將毛列入重要的航岸裝備沒有裝毛的船是不能出港的我想要請教 因為這個就 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6597.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6613.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
潛艦不管你們現在對外說它到底重不重要你們已經設計進去了那它發生故障它現在在調校當中為什麼不等它裝好以後我們才做這樣的一個測試你有差這樣的時間嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6617.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6623.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
因為我們口口聲聲都說要注重安全你說這個不重要今天我們今天如果在一個遊艇上面每一個都是游泳高手他要出海去釣魚我們那個艇需不需要有救生裝備你只要出海就有危險我們剛剛講的就是緊急狀況為什麼他毛的重要性在這裡那你們可以對外說這個毛不重要潛艦沒有毛也沒有關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6647.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6650.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
這是對的嗎跟委員報告這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6654.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6658.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
軍艦它就是一個軍規那軍規它的備用系統會比商規的這個全世界的船舶法規含民船跟軍艦都將毛列入重要的航岸裝備沒有裝毛的船是不能出港的剛剛部長也提到如果我們這個調教完成以後你到時候下毛跟起毛的測試都還會另外做所以可見它就是必要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6681.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6692.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
當你還沒有調教完成你還沒有故障恢復之前為什麼要急著現在去做我們現在要講的是這樣因為你12月就回來了你們剛剛說12月就回來可以裝上那既然是這樣你就等他裝上以後你們再去做測試啊你們不是說安全最重要嗎今天如果一個很會游泳的游泳高手 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6703.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6721.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
他到海裡面他有時候腳抽筋還不是會發生意外很多潛水高手他在潛水的時候他可能在那裡潛過至少百千次以上還不是會發生意外今天我們還在建造階段你們都知道是建造階段所有的測試都還沒有經過非常完整的測試情況底下你說毛沒有關係 是沒有關係嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6732.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6742.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
跟委員報告他還是其實就一個毛他就是一個備援的替代方案中間他是一個重要的航岸裝備今天你即使旁邊有什麼無人艇或者其他你說他的技學什麼都判定說這個沒有問題沒有問題為什麼我們的扶航測試會經過那麼多次他就是有問題那你當你發生問題的時候你的毛就是有他的功能在所以我們現在只是要提醒 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6761.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6765.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
我們一直口口聲聲說安全非常重要今天為什麼有人會把它爆料出來就是他們覺得不安全啊所以這個部分國防部應該要比台船更審慎除非是我們下令要求他必須在這個時間點所以這個部分我們先提出來做探討也希望未來不要再發生這樣的事情每一個步驟都是必要的今天 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6785.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6793.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
會游泳的人不需要泳圈因為他在游泳的時候不會用泳圈可是泳圈就是必須存在在那裡他發生狀況的時候他會用上所以我們希望我們用審慎的態度不要告訴我們說我們注重安全可是當有什麼問題發生的時候又說那個不重要那不重要你幹嘛設計啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6805.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6807.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
所以你幹嘛回來裝好以後你還要做測試這是我們要提醒的另外我在這裡本市也要請海軍提供相關的證明資料因為之前有要求提供我們主機這樣子的一個一些公文的函附可是我們看裡面其實還是有很多問題點而且避重就輕 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6828.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6835.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
因為潛艦的他所用的柴油主機在呼吸管航行的使用情境下面他的排煙口會被水包覆我想這個可能我們海軍也非常清楚這個部分嘛對不對所以我們在排煙他要克服這個壓力所產生的額外的被壓這個部分我們希望包括國防部還有包括我們海軍提供相關的資料最大可容許排煙被壓值 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6858.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6861.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
來判斷排煙是否能夠克服海水的被壓這是第一個第二個在高被壓的情況之下才有引擎能夠維持而定功率轉速不衰退的測試證明文件第三個排煙壓力跟轉速測試是否符合規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6877.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6880.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
它符合哪一個規範而且它測試的標準值是什麼我們請提供這三項的一個資料因為我們這一次主機你們在回覆的時候是說由法國驗傳協會這是屬於民間的第三方的檢驗認證機構對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6895.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6899.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
那我們引用BV就是我們法國驗傳協會進行傳用柴油機的這個見證其實算是合理然後在也符合國際的慣例可是法國驗傳協會他只能確認傳用通用的要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6914.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6917.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
他並沒有潛艦專用的軍規驗證能力所以如果採購規範沒有明確的列入潛艦的排煙備壓還有通氣管阻力主水閥的順壓還有靜音以及抗震等抗震等需求只憑FTA跟FAT跟BV的認證我想這是不足的那這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6938.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6958.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
我們為什麼會特別要求說要提供相關的資料海軍在準備提供兩個禮拜之內提供好不好這一個因為我們希望可以證明這個主機是符合潛艦專用的操作條件的另外還有這一台小引擎它曾經用在哪個國家的潛艦 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6961.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6963.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
是否也可以提供因為如果有我們請提供不管你要用機密的方式或其他方式如果沒有那他過往的經歷沒有的話我們為什麼會選擇這樣的引擎 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6977.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7001.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
請提供一併提供相關的資料好不好兩個禮拜之內謝謝部長我們也希望是由您看過的因為有一些的認證我想我們當時在預算的編列的時候還特別請了非常多的法律的編了很多的法律律師的一個費用就這些部分不管是我們很多的合約或者像這樣的認證標準我們希望都經過專業的認證然後可以提供我們提供給本委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7007.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7022.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
我想跟委員報告我想過去海軍在認可之下我們都已經有跟委員做過報告那要在保密的情況之下也有請委員看看是不是要到高雄那邊去所以我想這個都應該有安排 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7022.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7028.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
我想我們還是用正式的文字會比較好因為有時候我們看我們看不出來啊你像船看起來就是船我沒有辦法用看的去判斷那這個部分因為我相信其實不管是部長也好海軍也好相關的人員也好只要你們敢認證我們就敢相信 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7043.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7058.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
可是你們必須要很明確的讓我們知道這個就是一個完整的認證而不是你們用了很多的文字敘述然後我們還是看不出來那到底是什麼剛剛要求提供的再請確實提供謝謝不好意思耽誤時間謝謝馬委員請沈伯陽委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7082.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7085.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
好 謝謝主席 有請部長 謝謝好 有請顧部長好 部長好 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7095.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7110.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
那這個呢我先追蹤一下因為這剛好也是大概在兩個禮拜前那時候我們有問就是說關於這一個加擠的這個接下來的一個調整跟順序因為我們現在有這一個志願役的有戰鬥部隊的 戰航館的電偵的 網路戰的等等之類的 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7115.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7131.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
今天在這一個我們的回應裡面就已經有提到目前請政院爭取的加擠方案所以看起來是逐步在進行所以這個部分我比較沒有什麼疑問我想要問的事情就是說因為今天畢竟是以這個作為主題 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7132.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7148.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
那因為現在加擠的部分我在看這一個網路戰的部分因為網路戰的加擠我們在這個2017年的時候那時候其實就有這個相關的設計那時候其實是國軍就開始這一個我覺得這是值得嘉許的一件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7149.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7163.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
因為後來院版就是行政院針對資安相關的就跟國防部無關他們也有做這個加急但加急的方式比較不一樣所以那時候我有去詢問就是說這個不一樣到底在哪裡然後為什麼會這樣設計他當時是這樣跟我講就是說因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7168.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7183.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
我們過往這一個所謂的網路戰加級的部分它其實有一點點像獎金的性質因為它內部有一個這一個長官的審核然後看一下這一個表現有點類似績效的意思當然內部會產生一些競爭 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7184.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7196.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
所以後來行政院他們在做設計的時候他們的設計的方式就是它還是會有一個這個加級這個加級是比較固定的然後後面再加一些能夠變動的這個獎金它這樣會讓這個中間內部的那一種績效競爭的關係稍微減緩那時候速發部也有說他們在這個設計的時候也有做一個變動 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7206.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7233.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
這個變動的方式就是他不用一個月一個月看他是一年一年看這有點像是警察跟調查局的差別調查局也是他喜歡從一年去看那個績效這個時候內部那個競爭的這個壓力可能會稍微少一點所以我想問一下就是說就是我們現在加擠這個是確定的這個比較沒問題就是說加擠的方式有沒有可能我們跟院版目前他們自己在做跟資安相關的加擠的時候有沒有對齊的這個空間 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7240.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7242.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
喂好我是曾同軍參謀長的說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7244.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7272.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
那這個部分第一個就是證照的部分對 一開始會有證照的價值那這個部分就是有參考那是基本的是沒錯就參考行政院所發的這個基準那第二個就是針對他平常的一些工作時機那我們去有一個我問的就是這一個部分那這個部分都會有一個平和和審核的機制實際看他任務執行的成效然後依照這個等級然後去做審核發放 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7273.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7296.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
對 因為我就是在這個在問的過程當中就發現就是你剛剛講的這個第二個的這一個部分有時候會有點過度競爭那過度競爭的時候因為他也是長官在做審核那審核的時候呢長官之間的關係可能有些人會他不一定是長官是因為跟他的關係但旁邊的人他沒有得到他可能會不滿他認為說我明明我的績效很好這個有時候會有一些內部的一些因素但是我們也不能說績效不重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7297.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7318.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
所以簡單來講就是說我們要把那個變動的那一個幅度不一定要拉到最大而是說像剛剛院本的那種方式就是它有一個基礎然後再加上那一個績效的部分它的變動就會比較小那可以讓這種彼此競爭的這種關係會稍微減緩一下但因為我知道就是在評估那個的時候呢看起來可能有十幾二十項嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7318.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7343.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
那這個是機密的部分所以我覺得這個看是不是能夠比如說我們在這幾個禮拜的時候呢我們在辦公室稍微討論一下就是說我們在設計的那一個加擠的部分要讓基層感受到說它是被公平對待的我覺得這個事情是重要的就是說加擠這個部分有問題像我們要討論的是加擠的方式能不能夠讓他們感覺到說我真的因為我的工作被加擠所以這個部分我們就之後再來討論好 那這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7347.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7368.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
下一個這個問題雖然它不是跟加擠直接相關這個是我們跟國防部調的資料這是空軍的正旗班他們的體檢前跟體檢後藍色的部分是他在大疫的時候他可能有做體檢他有一個人數 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7369.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7397.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
紅色的部分是那個大三下的時候做了體檢之後呢發現他可能不適合所以他就不繼續做這個飛行生那其實我覺得這個解釋的空間可能很大而且我覺得數字不一定代表真實狀況但至少有一點我覺得值得注意就是因為他一定就是你大一的時候做體檢大三再做中間一定會有落差嘛因為過了一段時間那過了一段時間之後一定會有人掉這個沒問題而且你們還會另外可能不管是從 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7400.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7421.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
這個專班的方式等等你會補人 這個是OK的那但是你看這個2016到2021的時候我覺得那個中間會少的那個人數是滿恆定的但是從2021到2025有加大啦尤其是2025你看他這個是200到150也就是說他從因為這個體檢的方式然後因為離開這個的人數是變多了那這個變多當然你們會有你們補的方式這個OK |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7428.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7446.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
但是到底會不會是他們的意願的問題還是說因為普遍來講這幾年大家的健康的因素這個解釋的空間太多了我們大概很難從數字直接呈現但目前來講有沒有針對這件事情稍微了解一下為什麼這個東西的那個那一個少的人數會變多那個比例會變多 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7447.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7465.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
所以 委員好 我是公益參謀長就能夠回答的回答就可以就幾個部分跟您報告您看到現在上面的那個紅色跟藍色的差異最主要是兩個部分就是畢業前的體檢我們入學的時候體檢主要是畢業之後的最主要兩個原因是一個是近視 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7465.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7484.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
当然因为学生滑手机的多嘛所以说近视的比例高那另外一个最主要的原因是心脏的部分对 我也有听说我们要上飞行线要做离心肌的这个测试所以说很多一部分是在心脏的检查没有过那这个部分是必须在飞行就是在三年级 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7484.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7505.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
結束之前才能做的一個部分那您剛剛提的這個意願的部分這個我們在每一屆的飛行生他的淘汰的狀況我們會有做一個統計那可能也是因為現在少子化抗壓性的問題這個部分確實也有比之前的比例要稍微高一點所以因為有時候心臟的因素就很多元嘛 對不對就很難去講 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7507.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7532.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
那我們也不是說要去懷疑或什麼之類的但是我們就想因為今天談到家計談到福利這一塊就想說他們對他們未來的期待到底是什麼因為畢竟他來參加應該是非常有意願那有沒有可能他這個意願在中間降低數字不一定代表但是就像剛剛講的做實際的調查有可能會知道是不是有人他就是不想他不想再繼續了那不想再繼續如果人數變多的話我覺得這還是一個警訊那 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7534.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7552.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
可以有補的方法當然是最好但是這個警訊我覺得要正視如果是福利如果真的去調查過後如果是跟福利相關的我們當然是跟加擠跟福利這個部分還要再做滾動式的檢討但如果今天是像剛剛講的健康的因素比如說像近視或者說跟心臟有關那是不是可以考慮更早的時候發現 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7553.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7576.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
比如說他因為剛剛講的那一個心臟相關的這些測試他可能是後面那一次他在測嘛是不是他前面那一次沒有測沒有那如果說他早一點發現的話那他也可以早一點就解脫嘛他也知道他再過幾年他的心臟他已經那個時候測已經出現了問題那這樣的話我們才可以真的知道就是你前後都有測一樣的那我們就可以真的知道到底是健康的問題還是醫院的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7577.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7599.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
我覺得這個要正視因為你看2021可能還好你看22 23它就是一直加大那這個我們可能要稍微了解一下狀況但也有可能像你講的有可能是壓力那現在這個國際情勢不同啊跟他當時進來的預想不同啊我覺得這個都應該去討論那在如果說有在這個相關調查的時候我們隨時滾動式的來看一下到底真實的原因是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7600.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7618.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
那再來就是目前這個因為院長有提到就是明年要擴大這一個城鎮的任性演習那裡面呢這一次這個權動署有提到說要檢視各類動員法規加強宣導台灣全民安全指引深化任性演習效能那 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7620.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7648.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
這個部分是有因為他的第一句話講的要動員法規那這邊我有點不太了解就是說是要動哪些法規是有想要修哪些法規嗎目前盤點了有什麼在今年的話內政部的部分就是民防有兩個一個是民防團隊編組訓練演習服務勤及支援軍事勤務辦法另外一個就是那個替代義男服役期滿後 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7649.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7657.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
召集胡情的實施辦法這兩條所以都是辦法層級他沒有需要到這個直接立法院這一邊的修法嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7660.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7687.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
對 現在是暫時是在辦法這個層級上面好那因為時間的關係我快速問一下下一題因為這一題我覺得是稍微要注意的一點就是目前高雄左營的這一個都市計畫那因為有這一個蠻多的這一個反應是在講說左營軍港的周邊的限高的問題因為它現在本來就已經有蠻多高樓在那一邊那新的都市計畫又會有更多的高樓那這個高樓目前在法規上的限制它這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7689.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7716.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
因為之前我們在討論這個要塞堡壘什麼等等之類的還有討論到這個關鍵基礎設施但這個是屬於鄰近的土地那鄰近的土地的開發案他從上往下看的時候看這個軍港是一覽無遺那如果說他有更多的都市計畫的話這邊有沒有跟地方政府去討論有沒有針對那個鄰近土地的那個都市新的那個都市開發案他們的限高或他們的視野這個部分有沒有先去溝通因為這是即將要發生的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7719.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7743.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
因為我們左營有所謂的直升機的一個飛航路徑所以我們目前針對直升機的飛航路徑周邊有做了一個限高跟必要的一個查查跟巡檢那也依照這是用飛行路徑去限制飛行路徑去看那因為旁邊的這個路徑這個高樓的部分這個應該也一段時間了然後又會有新的 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7744.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7756.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
所以我覺得這個可能要去了解一下那了解一下之後我們後續來做最終我覺得這件事情蠻重要的因為之前在花蓮的時候我們有問過類似的問題那現在是在高雄那因為時間關係我先問到這邊謝謝部長 謝謝主席好 謝謝接下來請林楚英委員上台質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7781.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7782.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
謝謝主席 主席有請顧部長 是因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7793.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7813.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
部長早安賴總統在上個禮拜宣示了就是我們要來編列的這個1.25兆的國防特別預算那麼其實這個本席在國防外交委員會也曾經多次的質詢那麼這樣的一個國防預算1.25兆出來之後因為其實是8年但是呢很多時候被這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7814.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7826.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
要擋軍購的人一講好像就1.25兆好多喔那我們國家的預算是不是都拿去了其實用簡單的數學來除一除就知道說這個一年喔只要這個1562.5億其實對於我們國家目前的財政是絕對可以負擔的而這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7833.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7840.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
有國防其實才有安全那麼其實你也曾經宣示了就是說在這個國防產業當中最重要的是連經濟部都做了圖卡就是說接下來在這個特別預算當中我們不只是打造國安國防更要有產業的亮年而經濟部還說這個有打造產業 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7852.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7858.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
自主量能的部分有航太機器狗船艦無人載機具跟衛星的五大產業而您同時也對外發布了說在這個產業量能當中會提供9萬個工作機會跟4千億的產能 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7869.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7881.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
言下之意就是要讓全民知道我們在國防的部分不只是花錢我們更有機會來打造在非紅產業鏈當中一個非常重要的位子但是我特別去調了一下財政部的資料我們無人機確實是這個產能 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7887.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7890.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
澳人在2024年呢我們只有441萬美元但是截至今年10月為止已經高達了5,475萬美元也就是高達12倍那我認為確實這個數字跟這些部分都是應該讓國人知道的不過本席要問部長的是部長您知道嗎在這個整體的產業的部分喔現在無人機只有商用的 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7916.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7938.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
也就是軍規商用的部分其實是無法出口的也就是言下之意本席收到的狀況是說那麼在打造非紅供應鏈的狀況底下其實我們的無人機的這些產量跟量能絕對不可能是只留在台灣是吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7940.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7959.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
那麼就本席今年6月得到陳情之後所知道的一個狀況是這樣就是我們整機的所謂軍規商用的無人機如果要出口那必須向經濟部的貿易署來經經過申請可是呢我們有一個叫做 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7961.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
7976.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
戰略性高科技貨品輸出管理辦法但是我們軍用的無人機是沒有這個辦法言下之意就是說雖然我們現在放眼未來我們無人機要進入全球市場 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
7977.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8001.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
但是是沒有辦法的也就是說我們就算申請出來了也沒有辦法對外輸出因為根本就沒有這個出口的規範那麼本席在今年六月詢問了之後那麼當然也跨部會的去了解兜了一圈很像鬼打牆一樣就是經濟部說必須要有國防部 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8002.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8020.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
給予相關的國防的建議我也認同因為包括輸出的辦法當中要如何來訂定規範這個很重要所以需要國防部的建議但是呢國防部前一陣子你們都在處理任性相關的這個特別預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8021.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8034.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
沒有時間但是從六月到現在已經經過半年了本席希望再透過今天的質詢能夠點出這個問題就是當我們放眼接下來在我們的國防產能當中我們要發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8037.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8039.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
進入所謂的非紅產應鏈讓台灣可以有機會成為輸出這些軍工產品的國家的時候那麼規定在哪裡有沒有要制定相關的規定現在重點是如果連辦法都沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8053.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8063.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
那難道是要我們國內自己買嗎不可能嘛 是不是一定要有市場那麼在全球的市場當中我就問有沒有做跨部會的溝通然後有關於這個輸出的管理辦法能不能出來那何時可以出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8071.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8088.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
委員好 我是軍備局局長非常感謝委員的指導我們的無人機區分為一 軍用軍規軍用軍規就是由我們中科院來生產製造它只要滿足我們國內的戰備需求我們就可以依規定來呈報出口這是沒問題的 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8089.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8117.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
那第二個是軍用商規的部分假如是這個無人機不管是我們市面上很多有名的公司比如中光電雷虎等等的生產的商規的無人機他是不需要我們國防部來核准啊今天的問題就是他想要帶著火藥一起出口可是民間廠商按照刀械槍砲刀械管制條例他是不可能會有火藥的所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8118.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8119.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
我的火藥是不可能賣給民間廠商所以這個部分也在國安會都已經研討過了暫時跟委員說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8126.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8150.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
您提到的是有關於火藥的部分我現在提到的是在這樣的一個所謂高科技產品的輸出管理辦法當中是缺乏一個辦法以至於在整體的過程當中經濟部說因為國防部國安局沒有給辦法所以對於本席來說本席在乎的不是個案的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8150.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8173.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
本席在乎的是這樣的一個管理辦法戰略性高科技貨品輸出的管理辦法現在沒有制定出來那麼局長您剛剛講的是軍用軍規軍用軍規商用那另外商規都不管你們現在是在軍規商用的部分連管理辦法都沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8173.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8179.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
那剛剛您提到的是所謂個案有什麼需求但本席要追蹤的是辦法因為我從經濟部貿易局這裡所得到的是根本連辦法都沒有那麼是不是真是如此呢那如果是這樣的話接下來我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8190.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8191.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
跟委員報告 就這個議題在現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8212.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8229.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
在國安會應該就要做一個跨部會的一個協調然後我們要由國安會做一個政策性的一個指導那麼在這個政策性的指導之下我想國安部會跟經濟部來合作就這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8233.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8257.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
特別是以如果講以無人機作為一個例子的話那我們到底如何該跟民主同盟國家打造一個在一個非紅供應鏈的前提之下能夠進行相關的合作那這些合作不只是包括了一個技術的合作那也包括了我們關鍵民主圈的出口那甚至剛剛委員提到了整機的出口這個部分可能都要做一個整體的規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8257.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8285.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
沒錯本席特別提出來質詢就是說對於我們來講過去喔民眾可能都還停留在是台灣要對外買軍購沒錯就像這一次我們編的1.25兆的預算但是除此之外台灣在其他的這些國防自主的部分我們也是有機會輸出尤其是像無人機所以我特別請求的是說國防部在有關於軍規無人機的部分你在出口的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8285.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8311.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
到底有沒有審查的原則標準然後如何在跨部會當中跟經濟部跟相關的單位做一個跨部會的整合去把這樣的標準跟規定制定出來這樣子在我們可以有機會量產或對外來銷售的時候才有機會能夠拿下這些訂單讓我們真正所看到的9萬個工作機會4千億的產能真的能夠展現出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8315.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8328.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
對 因為這個其實跟委員坦白講這個就涉及到我們能夠輸出的哪些國家然後輸出國家最後它的最終使用者那這些其實我們要做一些整體性的考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8329.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8348.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
好所以呢我希望在這個部分齁還是要能夠趕快先把規定規範制定出來好接下來下一個我要詢問的當然也是跟今天的主題有關啦齁就是在你們的報告當中其實我很認真的做了一個整理也就是各式的勤務加擠喔但是裡面卻看不到心腹的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8348.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8362.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
那麼有關於新府的部分呢本席除了非常關注之外我想之前在去年的4月24號就是當時是我們國防外交的委員但現在是勞動部長的洪森翰部長他也曾經質詢過就是其實對於我們整體 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8366.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8380.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
軍中的這樣的一些有關於心腹的部分那麼國軍同仁在面臨勤務上面或者在軍中生活當中所面對的心理的壓力其實是存在的但是就整個報告來看從2015到2024年度有7項的加擠那麼2025年的調整的加擠又有5項那麼未來規劃的部分有戰鬥加擠 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8391.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8398.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
有航管加擠有反情報加擠有市官長督導的加擠等等但是依舊沒有看到新府人員的加擠在這個部分喔我想是非常重要的而如果說今天他們沒有放上來是因為國防部認為沒有需求呢還是說其實這個不在你們的規劃當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8416.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8444.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
跟委員報告 其實新府加擠的部分我們其實有在研究 那也在去年11月的時候有情報 呈報來行政院審議那行政院目前給我們回覆的審議結果初步是沒有同意那我們還在增強相關的一個論述希望以後有機會可以再繼續爭取好 這個行政院不同意喔 一定有他的理由那麼我所知道的理由是是不是說因為是有證照已經有證照加擠 是這樣嗎還是說有其他的理由 理由是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8446.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8475.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
跟委員報告 其實陣仗應該不是他他的確在會審相關部會的時候譬如說像衛福部或是其他部會他們都有相關的一個東西所以我想行政院他是一個整體的考量那他目前大概跟我們回的理由大概是說國軍還是以國家的防衛任務這樣子的一個為主然後新府的人力目前看起來在邊線筆上面也沒有像主戰部隊一樣有這麼急迫性的一個需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8475.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8501.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
所以這個相關的一些審查意見我們還在加強論述好我希望在這個部分我們還是要注意起來因為對於部隊當中所面臨的心理上面所需要諮詢的部分那麼我知道其實你們的人力上如果以每一年所畢業的心腹相關然後進入部隊的人數上面其實也是不夠的對於他們來講他們身為心腹的這些相關的同仁啊他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8502.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8512.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
國軍弟兄啊他們在部隊當中他們所承受的壓力其實也很大一個人可能要對好幾個這個部隊上面所需要的需求量所以我也認為如果可以的話我也想幫他們爭取就是必要的加擠 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8519.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8529.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
就這個部分如同剛剛沈國昌市長講的我們有提出來那我想我們就這個部分我們會再來加強論述來爭取好 謝謝謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8539.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8551.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
等一下我們先宣告就是待會兒王定宇委員質詢完畢以後先休息五分鐘現在請陳冠廷委員上台質詢你好我們先請部長請顧部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8575.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8599.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
是 成為部長好部長上週我們聽到有幾位國會議員其實不只國會議員還有很多的在媒體的評論者都一直說台灣要不要成為烏克蘭這樣子的議題部長有什麼樣的看法台灣現在的關鍵就在於是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8600.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8611.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
我們確實面臨了一個強敵揚言要以武力來併吞台灣這個是我們台灣現在正面臨的這個處境在 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8614.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8631.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
烏克蘭的這個部分當然俄羅斯他也是作為一個強權然後來威脅這個烏克蘭所以我們確實有面對相同一個鄰近的一個牆底的威脅的一個狀態存在 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8633.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8659.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
但台灣它在這個印太地區地緣政治的重要性至於對全球經濟的這個重要性呢我想具有這個不可替代的一個地位那麼台灣在現在要做的呢那就是我們現在所一直在強調的我們要以實力來追求和平 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8659.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8667.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
以實力來爭取我們現狀的維持那這個部分不是只有我們台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8669.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8689.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
來獨自面對我想整個印太區域的國家也都感受到了中國軍事擴張的一個威脅所以在這個部分上各國也掐中了他們的國防預算然後來一起協同來進行一個集體性的一個嚇阻 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8690.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8706.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
那我想我簡單的回應就是剛才部長講的都對那我自己認為是在野黨跟這些部分的評論者是問錯的問題因為重點是中國要不要成為俄羅斯要成為衰弱封閉被抵制的俄羅斯發動戰爭的是俄羅斯發動衝突的是俄羅斯 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8708.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8736.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
那導致整個俄羅斯從過去的這種天然資源紅利到被所有60多萬人死傷引發10多萬的經濟人才外逃經濟上面甚至造成只能靠軍工產業苦撐失去歐洲能源市場同時成為全球被抵制最多的國家身負多項制裁最後還被踢出Swift的金融系統我想這個問題要問清楚中國要成為俄羅斯嗎要成為一個衰弱的帝國嗎所以很多時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8738.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8752.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
這一黨也好或者是部分的評論者也好一直在提到這個問題好像是把這一種發動戰略者的責任去歸屬到被害者被害國我覺得這是對烏克蘭是不公平的那對台灣也是不公平的 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8753.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8771.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
最近我看到有一些像是什麼什麼和平示威啊和平的這個要和平對我們要和平但是我們是要反侵略啊發動武力的不是我們啊我想這些論述我們要很清楚的去講那我還要再次強調不要只有在烏克蘭勝利的時候我們跟烏克蘭站在一起 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8772.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8784.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
我看到在戰事初期的時候在戰爭開始這個烏克蘭成功的這樣反攻的時候哇 所有的部會首長能蹭的盡量都蹭現在遇到挑戰的時候不知道躲到哪裡去可以這樣子嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
8785.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
8812.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
我們剛剛提到說台灣的重要性是因為有很多國際的盟友會來支持我們包含我們的半導體的產業鏈包含我們的非紅供應鏈我們在遇到困難的時候我們希望人家來幫助我們那別人遇到困難的時候我們就要拋棄他嗎是不可以的所以我還是要強調包含日本我們上個上禮拜跟上上禮拜不斷的在這個國會的殿堂有提到我們跟日本的友好日本儘管是在有和平憲法的框架之下他們還是提供大量的裝備 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
8813.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
8828.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
資源給烏克蘭這就是在體制內我們要創造的是一個我們能夠有能力在我們遇到挑戰的時候其他的盟國敢站出來願意站出來願意提供資源如果在日本的和平框架之下都能的話我們更應該要這麼做 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
8829.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
8858.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
那當然烏克蘭有他自己國內的政治情勢那他們跟中國之間的關係以及怕中國再加強介入的這樣子的狀況我們都可以理解但是我認為我們必須要主動的去思考並且去應用他們在對這個俄羅斯的侵略戰爭的每一項技術每一項能力包含他們的薪資的這個部分為什麼要得到薪資因為烏克蘭的這個部隊他的最低的工資跟他的戰鬥獎金這些是我們都可以來去思考的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
8860.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
8880.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
從2025年開始 儘管因為他們的國家是相對的在經濟跟我們這個人均所的是不成比例的但是他們對於戰區加水指揮的加急 戰鬥的加急還有特別的獎金 特別的獎金我覺得更應該要提到我這次在讀我們的報導裡面有提到說包含我們的情報人員 這個我們都會有加急 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
8882.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
8909.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
過去我們國家還曾經都會有派一些情報人員在中國現在可能沒有辦法畢竟中國的這個科技監控的能力是很強的但是我們可以思考說對於執行特殊任務或者是從這個傷病中的被捕人員我們現在沒有遇到這些狀況但是從烏克蘭直接第一線面對的我們都可以來去思考如果我們是全面性普發性質的把每一位這個軍職人員都增加的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
8910.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
8929.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
不符合效率也不符合公平性特別是在這個烏克蘭的武裝部隊裡面他們也還有再去細分身處戰區但沒有直接交火的跟身處戰區直接交火的跟直接交火又受傷治療中或者是被拘禁的都有做很細部的去做分區 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
8930.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
8948.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
所以這些資料我是建議國防部未來可以去做全面性的參考特別是烏克蘭的這個這樣子的薪資結構跟他的特殊獎金某種程度是足以支撐他們面對曾經是這個世界強國的俄羅斯能夠支撐這麼久並且能夠有打出非常好的戰果是我們可以去參考的對象 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
8949.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
8967.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
那2014年到這個2020年就是在這個克里米亞之後其實烏克蘭的國防預算是有增加但是沒有顯著性的增加導致於他們最後在面對俄羅斯的這個侵略的時候其實也是處處受制的 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
8967.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
8984.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
那後來他們也在做自我檢討假設從2014年這一次從那個時候的這個克里米亞之後他們能夠投入更多的資源的話可能對事後的這樣子的國土的防衛是有更大的幫助那中國是不可能給我們第二次機會中國不會再像 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
8985.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9010.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
俄羅斯一樣因為它限制它限制於俄羅斯自己的國力它大概一次沒有辦法把這個烏克蘭這麼廣大的國土那做出這個徹底的征服所以他們有兩次的機會但我們台灣可能沒有兩次的機會所以為什麼會有1.25兆來分多年來去做這個預算它是有它的必要性的那所以對於戰鬥人員對於這一個戰區加急這些我是希望這些資料現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9011.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9028.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
都有那請國防部跟薪資相關的去參考未來也都可以去做相關的參考那再來我要請教部長這一個我要關心一下我們嘉義中埔的這個九月份成功領的這一個受傷的國軍弟兄那 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9030.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9052.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
我先強調一下因為我們看到說最新的三種的這個有提供很好的這個醫療協助也是有一個類似的今年年初的受傷軍人他有利用這一個相關的虛擬頭骨3D鏈技術恢復他的整個整張臉那我想請教我們我們嘉義的子弟那個國軍弟兄目前的康復狀況是怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9055.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9071.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
是 鮑威人 軍事局副局長陳耀浩這邊報告就是說他在三種部分來講的時候目前來講狀況相當穩定但是因為這個感染的部分來講比較厲害所以我們經過多次的清創部分來講說目前已經稍微穩定了 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9072.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9088.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
那麼對於這個頭骨或是顱骨底的部分我們也會利用比較剛剛委員所提到這些科技的部分能夠給它做比較良好的重建但前提是它必須要能夠這個讓這個感染的部分能夠降低我們盡全力把這個部分處理好謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9090.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9107.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
謝謝 這其實我們1.25兆的國防預算當然在醫療的部分我們也是要放注在裡面因為除了第一線的戰鬥人員的話那在這些提供醫療協助這些創新科技上面對於商業人的補助 幫助我想也是非常重要的那所以我想這是一個很成功的案例那也感謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9109.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9132.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
這個三種有類似這樣的技術那敢於去把這些創新的技術弄在我們的商園上面我想這是非常重要的特別是對我們的鄉親來講是非常重要的再來我們請中科院今天有來嗎院長我來提院長我們簡單請教一下這個關於無人機接管的技術 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9137.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9153.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
院長請教一下無人機接管的技術是必備嗎就是說在我們現在接下來因為我看到我們在本月14日國土辦委託中科院在關鍵基礎設施無人機反制系統說明會裡面有提到把接管takeover列為籌建的必備功能 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9155.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9183.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
我聽到的聲音是因為我們有院長我都有邀請你就很多產業鏈的人都有來他們認為說Takeover這個接管的這個技術性可能沒有直接反制不管是用物理適應的殺傷還是直接干擾上的殺傷來得快速那他們也提到這個科技的局限性看到他的問題就是說可能只能針對舊型或少數品牌有效如果把它列為必備功能的話會不會反而在我們籌貨無人機的反制無人機的能力上面反而會 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9185.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9213.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
減緩我們的這個能力的這個取樣因為我們如果又要這個又要且要全都要的話那意思就是說吃人就是分散掉了那對於硬殺也好 干擾也好我想這是這個在Priority是比較前面的可是如果你又要接管那你接管的這個無人機你又必須要想像它是不是本身是有爆裂物在裡面它的目的性 情報性是以情報為主還是以故意要攻擊性為主這個我想請院長可不可以簡單來回應一下真的有必要把它認為必備嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9215.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9243.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
謝謝委員給我這個機會澄清我們幫這麼多關鍵基礎設施去設定它採購的條件Takeover只是它功能之一並不是必要的條件所以不是必備的條件我們只是把所有的都列出來你可以按照你關鍵基礎設施的需求你自己去針對我們列在共計上說合格廠商的名單去選擇你要的功能它並不是必備條件所以院長我簡單這麼說所以它不是反無人機的必備功能 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9243.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9257.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
他可能只是針對特殊場域作為選配的能力的部分嗎但是這個只有我們幫國土辦定的規格這個是在這樣子他是列入選配的條件而已所以選配不是必備不是好 謝謝院長 感謝接下來請王定宇委員上台質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9275.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9277.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
好 謝主席麻煩部長有請顧部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9286.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9315.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
是 王偉好保證老闆我先追蹤一下我們之前在11月13號一樣討論的是薪資跟我們部隊結構的問題當時我們提到兩個其實基本上是兩個概念第一個我們現在在計算我們的邊線比是用全軍平均78%當然這個有參考價值但在管理的意義上在決策的意義上呢其實它的參考度比較低所以當時我就建議第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9316.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9339.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
我們應該分軍種分兵科分單位去算出它的邊線比如果它是屬於機密我們應該可以機密專報就是說邊線比要分兵科就常常講的你拿資源性的行政單位的跟第一類第二類作戰單位去平均計算這個數據呢這個數據沒辦法告訴我任何事情我沒辦法決策 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9340.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9366.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
第二個一定要像美軍一樣把那個臨界值也就是最小戰力域值這個threshold把它算出來那這兩個數據我就可以知道說這個單位的邊線比現狀是55它的最小臨界點應該要到81或80我就知道缺額多少那缺額來自於什麼原因我才能做決策應該讓它加擠多一點讓主觀管的什麼樣的東西多一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9367.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9386.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
才能做我們招募跟兵力配置的依據所以當時質詢是第一個重點在這裡第二個重點在於我們一定要面對一個現實少子化這不是台灣而已美國 日本 歐盟 德國 台灣都一樣少子化是一個客觀現實所以當我們在採購現代軍備的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9388.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9409.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
反而要把少子化的因素納為前置條件我這一個裝備一樣的戰力這需要兩個兵那個需要八個兵那我應該要考慮這一個就是說我們在AI自動化現代化的導入的時候人力人員的配置要納入考量這兩個結合起來的話我就要請教第一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9411.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9421.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
邊縣筆的呈現採取分科分種分單位而且要列出最小戰力域值我們國安部願不願意這樣做什麼時候可以把它提出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9422.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9447.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
我們關於委員所提到的戰略預指現在是有在研議是有在進行研議各單位的編輯本來就在我們在討論各項相關的調整的時候都會把它拿什麼時候可以呈現因為部長我剛才講的這個如果牽涉到機敏我們可以機密 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9448.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9467.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
但是不管是參謀本部或者部長這邊軍政軍令系統這個數據很重要啊就是說我這個單位要百分之多少的邊線比他才能出去作戰而他現狀是多少不足的原因在哪裡我才能根據這個才知道說我們薪資啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9468.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9490.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
或者加幾我應該往哪邊加把人力補到我們必要的那有的單位一半就能作業了那50%他現在邊線比60%也許沒有那麼優先所以不知道你懂我意思嗎這一個數字可能是你們做決策或者我們在這邊討論預算很重要的基礎數據你們什麼時候可以拿出來未來我們在委員會能不能採取這樣的看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9492.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9497.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
邊線比各單位最小域值多少距離差距多少或者已經超過了 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9499.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9523.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
什麼時候可以把它提出來就現在的你現在是說現在部隊的各部隊的邊線比我想這個已經是有既有的資料不過據我了解沒有最小域值這個東西對那現在因為委員在提到的就是所謂的最小域值這個概念那這個概念我們要再請各軍種來做一個評估那現在正在還在進行當中就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9524.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9543.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
我這邊列的第一個跟第二個我們在委員會有多次建議的一個是科學化的管理我現在兵力到底不足在哪一個單位在海軍到底是艦艇還是岸基艦艇是一二三級哪一種是因為這個小船特別顛簸某一型所以他兵線比比較低 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9543.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9572.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
那科技上能不能解決或者那個特別辛苦我的家籍該怎麼加把人留住這個是一套的然後加上第二個我剛才講我們現在的採購武器一樣的8吋流一樣的砲用8個人或者用3個人會不會自走存活率這都要納入考量所以人事預算及各項家籍應該根據這個來計算我也希望跟國民黨民眾黨好朋友因為國家安全沒有什麼國防沒有黨派之分 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9572.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9597.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
我們應該去思考我們現在一直在討論這個齊頭式的加薪不管加3萬加5萬加多少我們都很喜歡哪個人不喜歡加薪但是如果我們討論到國家的國防戰力的話是不是可以思考說我們把這個預算的總額來跟國防部談然後讓國防部把這個總額透過說來海軍陸戰隊邊線比偏低但我們確實需要這個單位把它加幾條高碼 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9598.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
9619.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
或者高專精高專長飛行員飛行員我們希望做商比達到多少那我們現在像續服獎金只有續服那一年有再來就沒有了那是不是叫他留一年第二年就考慮離開就續服獎金要不要一直讓他超過年限就一直有又比方說我們上次提到了聯營的士官長 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
9620.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
9637.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
或者軍官他的戰鬥佳績連有贏沒有這不合理嘛會變反淘汰變成我看我就做到這個官機身上去我反而薪水少了好多這個其實才能去把戰力把人力配置在最需要的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
9639.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
9655.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
齊頭市的加薪大家高興但齊頭市的加薪其實對於把人力配置在需要的地方對國家未必是好事尤其部隊各項專長加擠地域加擠那是很專業的東西所以我請教部長就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
9656.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
9671.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
我跟委員報告兩個第一個就是說有關最小域子的部分我們正在研究不過現在這個最小域子的部分我認為還有涉及到屏占的轉換的問題因為平時我們有一個一定維持的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
9672.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
9687.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
在戰演性任務底下的一個預指另外一個戰時的話我們靠邊時或跨邊動員之後會把整個戰力再透過臨戰訓練再把它提升這是兩個可能不同的我想我們會在每個部隊小到任何一個艦隊或者甚至任何一個艦或者是任何一個主戰 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
9695.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
9714.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
部隊的每一個營那都要可能他一個火力營或一個現在要進的裝甲旅或者等等這些可能都要做一些細部的研究所以委員給我們這個概念我想我們會來各軍會來做一些細部研討但是平時跟戰時我覺得還是有不同平時戰時 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
9716.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
9737.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
預值一定不一樣 一定不一樣應該是不一樣那第二點就是說有關那個整個戰鬥部隊的這個定義到底是不是要維持在一個連級的層級而已因為本身戰鬥部隊如果你來講一個裝甲旅他就是一個戰鬥部隊那所以在什麼樣的情況之下我們跟行政院來好好討論一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
9737.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
9766.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
對 我覺得需要我們幫你們說是 戰鬥部隊的定義贏不算連算這其實是不合不合現狀的完全不合現狀而且那會造成反淘汰所以我剛才提一個建議這個我個人的期待我期待在野黨期待我們國防部期待我們的執政單位大家坐下來談我們不要卡在平均齊頭市加薪這三萬塊當然我了解在憲法在所有的預算法相關上確實那個是有違憲的疑慮 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
9768.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
9791.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
我相信藍白陣營的朋友聽不下去但另外一面我們如果真的要幫國軍加薪又考慮到戰力的最佳配置其實根據所有的法律都應該行政部門跟立法部門坐下來談我們把這個總額把它框出來然後讓國防部提出一個最佳的預算的人事資源的配置讓我們的人留在對的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
9792.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
9805.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
而不要卡在一個國防部應該有政黨黨派的本位而是應該去思考怎麼做讓我們的戰力更好軍力更好這是我期待所以我剛剛講的那個以聯兵旅來看那我們作為一個聯兵旅作為一個戰鬥單位我們從這個畫面來思考 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
9808.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
9829.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
我看到你們在加急尤其過去十年來我們加薪大概六次以上多數都是用這種概念加急的讓人配在對的地方我現在請教強化防衛韌性及不對稱戰力的特別預算有人說沒有急迫性沒有必要性我開放的讓部長回答一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
9830.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
9855.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
那另外2027年2035年2049年這薛瑞福的說法2027是其實賴總統提出2027那個不是說那一天會發生什麼事而是2027是各國尤其盟友很關注的年份這個意義跟急迫性必要性部長的看法是什麼那我在那邊看到有人竟然主張零軍購就零戰爭零風險先去看看他家門有沒有裝啦他家如果有裝門有裝門鎖的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
9858.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
9882.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
那是不是就零大門 零窗戶 零門鎖 就零小偷這如果不是幼稚那根本就是侵略者的走狗 我講重一點的話每個國家都需要國防 何況台灣面對這麼大威脅零軍購 那乾脆零國防那這就百分百投降嘛所以這種主張大概只有侵略者高興真正要求減少軍購 減少風險應該向侵略者要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
9886.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
9903.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
威脅別人的放下武器才叫和平保護自己的人放下武器叫做投降基本觀念都分不清楚到底是站在哪一邊那我請教你對這個強化防衛任性及不對稱戰力1.25兆的特別預算條例急迫性跟必要性在哪裡請部長回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
9904.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
9926.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
我想簡單的就是說我們要考量這個中國軍事實力跟他這個反介入也就是有盟資源的能力不斷的增長就這個部分的話我們也已經有一再的提到就是說現在不管是灰色攜帶地帶的灰色灰帶的洗澡並同這個軍事威懾的這樣的一個負荷是威脅 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
9927.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
9934.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
已經讓我們感受到他們由訊轉眼 由言轉戰的預警時間越來越縮短所以我們當前是要迫切的就這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
9941.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
9962.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
為了應對當前的破屑我們要具備我那天在總統府記者會裡面有提到我們要加速完備多域聚責能力建構一個多層次的防衛體系這是一個嚇阻力量的建構你剛才提到一點我不好意思我追問那一點你說因為過去 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
9965.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
9992.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
從迅轉眼從嚴轉戰不管從2049辦公室那個伊安伊斯頓所寫的書或過去的評估都說中國要籌備武力犯台以前都說最少需要60天的準備部長我問這個比較敏感一點你可以回答就回答以你們現在判斷中國解放軍如果要武力犯台他從準備到發動攻擊那個時間到底縮短到多短 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
9994.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10007.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
我想委員這個問題就可能為難我們都會根據抵可能的行動做好我們這個聯合作案計畫但是我想詳細的可能就不是這個時間你們有嗎我覺得評估應該有 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10009.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10027.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
過去他們從logistic就是他們的所謂的後勤備載去把人員集中物料集中各方面的集中到兩期準備什麼以前一般抓60天到100天這個是過去各個智庫在算的可是我最近一直看到同樣的話說這個準備期 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10030.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10048.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
不斷的縮短 你剛也提到這一塊就是說它從迅轉眼 眼轉站它的時間可能會縮短所以我們要加強多欲聚子 嚇阻力量我剛才聽到是這一個那這個短到底短到縮短的時間到底縮短到什麼幅度或者你方便透露是現在有沒有大幅縮短我想我只能夠這麼說就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10053.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10078.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
你如果看他的針對性的軍演他已經是一個環台的一個在進行一個這樣的一個針對性的軍演所以他以這樣的演習的名義來進行這樣子的一個針對性的一個軍演在我們來看我們就會要我最後問一個我舉一個例子因為情次是在這邊這個謝中將以往為什麼認為他準備期要很長 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10082.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10104.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
是因為他必須把他的軍需 籌措 物流要花一段時間而且透過衛星看就知道他往哪邊集中了他現在還需不需要這樣做還是過去這一二十年他透過不斷的聯合戰備警巡 軍演把他需要的物資都已經放在應對的位置上那個 謝總將 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10109.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10130.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
報委員您剛剛的問題其實已經回答了您剛剛前面您剛剛已經把我們要回答的部分已經先做了提示那剩下細部的我認為我們是不是建議另外找時間我贊成我接受就是說你如果認為機敏不回答就是說局勢的轉變在這裡所以它的急迫性跟必要性 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10131.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10142.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
部長最後幾句話我們把它收尾這一次的特別預算在急迫性跟必要性跟我們剛才看那個只是一個例子其實我們還可以舉更多的例子在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10143.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10163.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
我想最主要就是如果預算能夠做這樣一次性的配付我們就能夠資源穩定集中的來加速籌貨所需要的一個戰力嗎那這個是我們提出特別預算的一個編列的一個目的其實你們的集中也是分八年1.25兆分八年一年是1500億 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10165.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10180.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
跟我們財化法整個割走的一點四兆每年其實國家安全的投資是有必要的我們面對威脅那麼大謝謝部長因為時間關係有其他這邊不宜回答的我們私下再進行溝通 謝謝好 謝謝韋好 謝謝那現在休息五分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10520.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10526.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
我們現在繼續開會接下來請吳宗憲委員上台質詢謝謝主席 我們麻煩部長有請顧部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10540.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10552.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
部長早安您辛苦了我想第一個問題我們就直接來我想請問一下您之前說11月海空號無法交件每天要罰19萬這個部分已經開始要做了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10553.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10578.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
我們會就按合約來好 那就這個部分麻煩雖然杯水車薪跟他的總金額比起來但是既然已經跟國人說了就麻煩貴部一定要做到不管說這個台船現在到底是什麼人貴部還是要做到那第二個問題我想今天的主軸是軍人加薪待遇結構的檢討那我們都支持軍人 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10579.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10604.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
待遇要提高那我們也絕對支持國防要強化但是我們要問一個很根本的問題立法院三讀通過的軍人待遇條例那每個月要調高加幾這比約300億的預算其實是可以穩定軍心尤其是在兩岸兵凶戰或是總統前幾天講了那個2027的這個事情之後其實穩定軍心穩定民心是非常重要的事情但是我們現在卻發現 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10606.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10622.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
我們對內我們拒絕編列對國軍的加薪預算甚至還提出釋憲來拖延這個完全違憲違反權力分立第二個我們對外卻制定了一兆兩千五百億 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10624.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10637.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
的這個特別預算這史上最大的特別預算而且我國目前在執行的跟國防有關特別預算不是只有這個大家不要誤會了不是只有一照2500億是還有好幾個特別預算目前都在執行都在花錢中 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10638.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10656.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
所以我一直在想就是說我們對於這個300億是0.03兆我們斤斤計較但我們對於美方的1兆2500億卻付得很開心然後一直要讓美國再次偉大那讓美國再次偉大之前可不可以想想讓我們中華民國也稍微偉大一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10658.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10681.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
那我想請問一下 在談新的1.25兆的這個軍購之前我想我們到底是在護國軍還是在護美軍我們先算一下舊帳 2019年的那66架F-16V的2470而已原本是2023年第四季就要交兩架2026要完成66架但是我們現在看到的 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10682.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10708.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
而目前我們審計的報告我們一件 一架都還沒有交而且我們付出來的錢已經超過七成了那我們還是必須照常的付款那這個巨額的資金到美國去只是美方就是賺寶的利息動不動都是幾百億那當初預算編列是依據美方所提供的那個發價書LOA來去所訂的時程但是後來都沒有做到 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10708.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10736.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
那2019年說2023年會來結果現在也都沒有來嘛那我在這邊跟我先跟國人報告一下也跟部長報告一下一般買賣商購的那DCS它就好像你去買車嘛那車商說什麼時候要交沒交就是罰錢東西不好也要罰錢也要賠償但是呢我們交了2000多億卻拿不到一架戰鬥機還不能罰美國的錢我想這個就是軍購案嘛就是FMS嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10737.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10765.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
軍購案好那軍購案的發架書裡面這LOA的發架書裡面有幾個霸王條款部長你跟我一樣都念法律一定非常的清楚我請大家仔細聽好第一個他沒有罰則第二個交貨期程是僅供參考第三死都要付錢第四個最後我們還是要保護美國最高利益內容很簡單請大家看一下我的那個PowerPoint上面寫得非常的清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10767.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10795.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
FMS就是政府對政府所以裡面沒有預期罰款的問題再來交貨的期程這個只是預估值沒有任何強制第三時都要付錢就算美國武器一拖再拖連通知你都懶得通知你為什麼他一拖再拖你還是得付錢最後我們要保障美國所有的利益我們美國只能賺不能賠而且所有的風險台灣單這個就是目前的狀況嘛部長你有沒有認為我哪一句講錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10797.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
10812.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
跟委員報告那個無論如何都得付錢這句話我想不盡正確我想我們上次已經有報告過了那你們付多少了 請問F16V付了百分之多少了請問F16V付了百分之多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
10816.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
10834.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
請問F16V負了百分之多少不好意思我的題目非常簡單請問F16V我們負了百分之多少了我們負到60%左右就停下來了好那是不是也是負了嘛那你要的回來嗎但是現在已經48家在組他在組的過程我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
10835.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
10847.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
就必須要付這些生產所需要的錢然後呢 都拿不到啦你大筆資金匯過去啦你按照原來合約期成付款錢就留在美國啦請問一下你要的回來嗎我講一句 要的回來嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
10850.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
10869.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
跟委員報告我想我們已經說明了我們成立了專案辦公室然後也美方也盡力的在盡快的加速這樣剛剛站規師也提到了在線上生產的這個飛機的架數已經50架所以我想我們預期我們因為明年的年底最後到期嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
10870.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
10885.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
那我想我們會盡快的在這一年當中報告部長我知道你在講什麼報告部長這個就好像部長您在十月的時候回答媒體的話說我們海昆號十一月交界有相當大的挑戰這就政客的話術嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
10886.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
10912.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
根本不可能啊你到現在連前一次都沒有過了11月可能交件嗎那一樣你現在說我們2026總目標不變這個其實也是不可能嘛好就算今天美方真的2026一次全部給你大說話一次全給你請問一下我們的人員培訓呢我們的地勤呢我們的品質驗收呢難道就是隨隨便便一次全來嗎那 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
10914.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
10939.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
你不用擔心說我們國人我們這些國軍跟委員報告我們不會隨隨便便好所以啊因為你們說的是說2026總目標不變嘛對不對那我只是跟你說好就算總目標不變當然我們都理解馬上就2026啦馬上就2026了那你一次全部交給我們不可能嘛要全部我們現在要盡量的加快但是當然要全部能夠再交2026年底的交集這確實有相當大的挑戰 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
10943.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
10952.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
部長現在不是全部部全部的問題就算我剛講就算美方可以在明年一年全部交完但是全部交完還是有一些驗收的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
10953.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
10980.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
出廠檢測品質的問題啊我們有沒有足夠的飛官跟地勤啊有沒有辦法同時驗收跟接收這66架這都是問題人才的部分空軍都有在準備那有關這個相關的測試的飛行相關所要進行的這些驗收當然都要嚴謹的來進行有相當大的挑戰其實這意思就一樣嘛其實就是政治人物的空曠那我剛剛在跟您報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
10982.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11002.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
錢會滯留美方這是審計部的報告這不是我講的您現在如果覺得不會那您去告審計部好了不然就請你的同仁準備好審計部的報告給你看為什麼審計部要告訴我騙我說目前錢就是滯留美方那如果這樣的話跟你說的就不一樣好那再來就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11004.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11022.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
2026雖然F16V您的說法總目標不變但是我也說即便總目標不變一次66架梭哈給你但是我們有非常多行政上面根本不可能達到的就像您當時說11月海昆號交建有相當大的挑戰一樣大家聽完都在笑好那我再跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11024.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11049.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
部長說你們2019年已經如期交貨F16V已經被騙了一次人才兩失那你我怎麼知道跟你怎麼知道1.25兆這個軍購會準時當年2019年的部長也是說沒有問題啊美方都已經講好其成了但是做不到就做不到而且最慘的是軍購做不到還沒辦法處罰他跟商購不一樣那請問一下那我怎麼能夠相信1.25兆的這個軍購會準時呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11052.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11075.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
更重要的是您說1.25兆的採購我們已經取得美方的報價美方也已經提供交運的期程但是我剛剛也說了這個交運的期程這個只是最佳交運時間這只是一個建議的他沒有做到也沒有關係所以這就是讓我們很擔心會不會又變成一個大錢坑另外 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11076.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11105.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
依照軍購的程序我們是要先送需求信函給美方嘛LOR給美方之後美方才會回復報價那既然說你說有報價那這程序上代表百分之百就是走軍購的那依照2500億又沒有罰則也沒有違約罰則交易期程 交貨期程只是供參考那這個就是我們將來會擔心的所以我希望這個禮拜能不能夠給我們一個資料就你們可以揭露的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11106.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11123.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
不要再扣我們紅帽子什麼要我要拿資料給誰不用就你們可以揭露合法可以揭露不影響櫃部運作可以揭露的情況下給我資料就我剛剛提的那些我們質疑的地方啦不要只是口頭保證就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11125.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11148.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
違約交不了貨怎麼辦第二個如果說就是delay沒有違約金怎麼辦再來交不了貨怎麼辦因為這在FC6V上面都發生那如果我們1.25兆這個東西也發生了你們打算怎麼處理這是一個很重要的點再來我也想要請問一個很重要的問題就是一個程序上面的問題你們可以看一下PPT |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11150.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11157.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
今年10月21號我們剛剛王定宇委員他去美國參加國防工業會議的時候就已經有提到這個為期7年1.3兆的這個軍事採購 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11162.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11190.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
結果呢 卓榮泰在面對院會的時候他卻 他在許曉清問他 他卻一無所知啊那以我對於編列預算的了解是國防部先編列預算行政院核定以後才算數那為什麼會發現民進黨的立委都已經知道了結果行政院院長竟然不知道那這個是變成是美方寫好報價單直接交給我們代表帶回來啊那我們國防部再直接抄一抄 然後寫特別條例 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11191.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11220.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
這不就是幾乎就是要台灣來硬吞下去嗎所以這個程序有問題嘛院長本來應該是國防部編行政院核定結果現在是立委在外面都公布了就院長說我還不知道所以這個期程上面就給國人無限的遐想到底鬼出在什麼地方還是我們王定委員就會算命就會預測未來是這樣子嗎所以這一整個都非常的奇怪到底我們的執政黨在玩什麼東西 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11221.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11243.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
他要把台灣掏空到什麼地步去我就覺得很莫名其妙而且一兆兩千五百億你一兩百億都跟國人斤斤計較一兆兩千五百億卻這麼的隨便像剛剛王定宇也講什麼財化法普發還有人講普發一萬年金健保等等說在窮台在掏空台灣在配合解放軍 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11244.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11255.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
這些錢不是掏空台灣這些錢也不是在野黨拿走這些錢是交給全體人民或交給地方政府是用在人民身上但是軍購 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11256.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11279.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
是把錢拿去美國就算你說拿去買武器是為了國人但是買了武器交不了貨那我怎麼對國人交代所以我們當立法委員我必須要監督這東西我再說一次我尊敬您部長您是我們法律大前輩我完全支持我國的國防我絕對支持國人國防一定非常的重要我們要買適當的武器能交貨的武器再來 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11280.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11308.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
部長第四條你們這次特別條例草案的第四條裡面七大項我也看到幾個很恐怖的點部長您是法律人我們也很清楚第六款第四條第六款強化作戰持續量能相關設備這句話空泛到不行法律人如果可以寫出這樣子的條款那等於是完全授權你愛怎麼做就怎麼做啦我買垃圾袋也可以說是要持續作戰強化作戰的持續的量能啊所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11309.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11335.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
為什麼會有一個這麼空泛的條款呢然後你貼上一個任何東西你只要美國掏出來叫我們買你就貼一個標籤說這就是強化作戰持續量能所需要的就我們就必須全部買單所以這就是我第一個質疑的點為什麼第六款有這麼空泛的條文第二個第七款台美共同研發及採購合作但是呢我在這一款裡面完全看不到 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11337.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11350.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
任何技術移轉的比例台灣本地產值的門檻價格審議機制沒有一個說得清楚那請問一下這樣子的櫃買條款如果真的過了以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11351.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11379.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
美國跟台灣說要共同研發共同採購結果呢技術最後留在誰手上專利留在誰手上台灣是不是又變成了軍火商的提款機這是我對於第七款一個很嚴重的我覺得有很大的問題的地方你雖然講得很好聽但是呢你又沒有講要怎麼合作的方式甚至智慧財產權留在誰那裡怎麼在哪裡生產產值的門檻什麼都沒有這是我一個很大的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11382.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11402.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
還有我跟你講因為我不知道說這次這麼大軍公案是不是美國威脅加徵關稅如果是就勇敢說出來告訴國人說我們不得不吞下否則這真的就很像是台灣版的馬關條約這就是這樣不好意思再給我一點點時間抱歉 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11403.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11423.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
我跟你講台灣我們所有人民絕對支持國防中華民國絕對支持國防但是反對當凱子更不想變成詐欺案的被害人我想我們支持的就是這個點還有拜託不要把行政院長當傀儡連立法委員都知道的事情就行政院長竟然不知道其實這個還蠻離譜的還有一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11426.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11445.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
還有一個會發生債留子孫的問題因為你們這一次呢第五條特別條例你們第五條講的是說這個是可以規避公共債務法嘛對不對你這規避公共債務法等於我們是把未來這八年我們分裂在未來這八年裡面你會排擠掉原本國家的 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11446.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11470.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
的預算啊所以呢我們本來未來8年可以用在健保長照教育基礎公共建設我們全部都先借來花掉了那我想請問一下第一個部長這1兆2500億錢從哪裡來你要加稅還是要砍健保還是要砍長照還是要砍教育第二個錢要怎麼還請問你的常在計劃是什麼利息負擔多少還有 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11471.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11486.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
是不是還要繼續每年舉債有一些側翼啊很無腦在那邊說啊國防預算增加不會排擠社福因為兩個編列單位不一樣問題是錢就這麼大錢不會天上掉下來怎麼可能不排擠說不排擠都騙人請問您常在計劃怎麼做錢從哪裡來一定借來的嘛特別預算你要去借錢不是我們現有的預算請問常在計劃在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11500.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11508.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
現在是讓我回答了嗎是 請說因為你剛剛講了一大串我想用了很多的形容詞 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11511.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11532.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
常在計劃在哪裡用了很多形容詞我想我特別幾個點跟您報告一下可能您有所誤解部長我的問題是常在計劃在哪裡時間的關係我簡要回答一下可以嗎您已經講了十幾秒還沒有講到我想第一個您說這個一兆兩千五百億全部都是軍購這不是事實 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11533.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11538.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
沒有問題沒有問題但是是特別預算嘛不是您剛剛講說全部是軍購這不是事實因為您要讓我您講了那麼久你要來兜圈子齁我沒有要來跟您兜圈子那我先回答您最後一個問題我先回答您最後一個問題可以嗎我先回答您最後一個問題可以嗎好簡單回答我先回答您最後一個問題可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11560.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11584.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
有關特別條例的經費上限依照2518年那來源為已用以前年度稅積剩餘或舉債方式舉借債務方式來辦理施行期間會依財政紀律法來管控舉債的規模我們也會依行政院的指導來嚴守財政紀律這就是官話嘛還是沒有還是我還是聽不到這就是官話一切依照規定那你如果要講這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11585.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11590.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
都是官話我也沒有話講而且您對一照2500億的一個是條例等到後面要編預算每一筆預算還要再送大院來主筆的來審議剛剛那樣的講法顯然是誤解了條例的意義跟後面編預算的意義今天就是還沒有討論到這邊所以我才會拿出來問嘛如果今天立法院都已經審了都過了那還有什麼好問的還有最後講一個啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11613.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11627.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
您今天買了一大堆武器對於軍人的薪水斤斤計較武器買了滿滿的沒有人用我不知道理由是什麼第二個你也不是買到最新式的武器比如說F16V是4.5代 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11630.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11658.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
你買的是舊的武器那難道你要把台灣當博物館嗎因為沒有人操作沒有人願意喜歡當兵這一次總援合直接少了9000人那等於是少了兩個旅遊戰鬥部隊其實這都是我們憂心的我不是找國防部麻煩我想您對總援合少掉多少可能沒有看我們的報告我們的縣議叫去年成長了2000多人我想您講的很多都不是事實好不好那有必要的話再用書面補充謝謝接下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11662.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11663.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
請陳俊宇委員上台質詢好謝謝召委我們有請顧部長請顧部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11681.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11693.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
部長午安 辛苦了部長我想先就最近我們台海周邊的軍事活動相關的事實事件來和部長您做討論近期外媒報導 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11697.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11721.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
紐西蘭海軍最大的軍艦在11月5號航行通過我們台灣海峽這也是從9月以來再次有紐西蘭的海軍通過台海而在航行的過程當中據稱中國的艦艇和飛機持續在做監控甚至有中國的戰機來進行所謂的模擬攻擊 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11722.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11751.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
我們中關過去這幾年不管是歐洲還是印太地區的友好國家派遣軍艦在我們台灣海峽執行所謂的航行自由的活動當然都是依照國際法所保障的航行自由權利不過當今天有美國以外的國家派遣軍艦通過台灣海峽的時候通常共軍都會派出海空軍來應對尤其在今年以來 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
11751.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
11752.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
谢谢大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
11752.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
11781.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
共軍所採取的反應似乎有更加強烈的跡象比如從2月以來包括日本 加拿大 澳洲還有英國的軍艦通過台海共軍除了增加附近空域的軍事活動外還會實施聯合戰備警巡除了展現反制的手段以外也是對台海管轄權的法律戰我想就此來請教部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
11782.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
11800.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
從這次紐西蘭海軍的這個案例來看是否代表中國對於這個歐洲或是印太國家派軍艦通過台灣海峽的這個應對措施有升級的這個趨勢那這其中有沒有擦槍走火的風險我方應該如何來因應 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
11802.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
11828.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
跟委員報告第一個就是說我們支持各國來經過台灣海峽從事自由航行這樣子的一個自由航行權有關遭到中國的跟監等等的這些挑釁的行為目前觀察來看還不具有擦槍走火的風險 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
11830.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
11857.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
我們國安部會利用聯合勤政的手段都有在全程的來掌握跟應處這樣子一切都還在我們掌握之中 是是好 那近期還有這個台海有事說的這個論調中國和日本之間的關係略顯這個緊繃那在上個月底日本防衛大臣小泉晉次郎也到這個西南諸島進行視察 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
11858.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
11881.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
那之後日本防衛省就公布11月24日有中國的無人機穿越台灣和與那國島之間的空域那日方也派出戰鬥機緊急起飛前往應對那我想請教部長在這一次的事件當中我們國防部是否也掌握這架無人機的來源和意圖而我方的應處作為是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
11882.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
11902.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
那另外中國如果持續派出無人機在台灣和日本之間的這個空域來進行侵擾的話我們會有什麼樣的因應原則中國的無人機他這個日本這邊公布的大概就是11月24日那他出海之後是沿著我們的航空識別區跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
11903.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
11917.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
日本的航空識別區就飛到西太平洋從事一個長航的任務日本的飛機一般例行性它都會在就這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
11918.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
11938.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
像您提到宇納國島這個空域它會來起飛警戒應出那我們都有全程的掌握部長那我們掌握這架無人機會是空軍的無人機還是其他的無人機系統它是一個KVB808的無人機 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
11943.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
11950.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
與那國島和台灣距離只有110公里日本自衛隊從2016年進駐了160人的沿岸監視隊後來也進駐了電戰部隊近日小泉防衛大臣也證實了自衛隊已經規劃在這裡要部署034的防空飛彈 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
11964.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
11992.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
那外媒也報導美軍要在這裡建立這個前進加油點使得這個第一島鏈成型的更嚴密的這個防衛整個這個串聯我想請教部長日本和美國在包含與那國島的這個西南諸島加強相關的軍事部署跟整備的相關規劃當中我們是否有角色在其中扮演那尤其未來若是其他的這個防空飛彈部署 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
11994.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12001.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
與我方的防禦範圍有所重疊對於我們台灣支盾的規劃會不會有什麼樣的影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12003.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12032.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
我想這樣就是說美國跟日本會加強在日本的西南諸島的軍事部署那你這邊有提到這個與那國島的這個防空飛彈的部署這個都是為因應中國的基建頻繁的洗腦浮穿第一島鏈的這樣的威脅所以他跟我們要致力以這個嚇阻或者以實力來維持區域和平穩定的這個目標是一致的 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12032.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12058.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
那至於我們的要建構的台灣之盾是以我們現有的防空系統作為一個基礎那我們強調整個偵測一直到這個決策還有打擊整個系統來做整合然後來遂行一個多層次跟高效率的一個攔截那我想我們是為了加強強化我們的自我防衛能力而設而來建制 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12059.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12073.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
部長我剛剛問的就是在這個第一島鏈形成的過程裡面我們台灣有沒有角色的扮演我想戰略上來看的話美國跟日本都要強化他們的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12075.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12092.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
這個軍事的威懾所以在西南諸島所做的軍事部署也是基於這樣的道理那所以協同嚇阻我想是大家共同的一個理念那台灣在第一島鏈的前緣那更要強化自我防衛的能力這個是必然的 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12093.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12121.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
也就是說我們之所以要提出這樣的特別預算還有我們要提高我們的國防預算在GDP的占比都是基於我們的防衛作戰的需求而不是單純的只是說為增加而增加這個都是基於需求而來那我想強化我們的防衛能力就能夠強化嚇阻那日本跟美國也一起加入從事這樣的協同嚇阻那就能夠維護區域的和平穩定也會是台海的和平穩定的現狀 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12122.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12145.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
好 那由於我們台灣跟日本之間並沒有所謂的這個制度性的同盟關係那在軍事上也缺乏共同演訓的機會遇到緊急狀況的時候是否能夠有順暢的一個溝通或是協作的機制來整合區域內盟友的一個資源那我想還是就這個部分請教部長台灣和與那國島的距離 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12147.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12172.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
相當的近那我們是否應該和日方來建立一個常態性對話或是協調的一個良善的機制來因應中國的揮袋侵擾或是有任何的緊急處理的方式我們國防部已經有掌握當中我們跟有盟國家都會建立一個情報交流跟情質交換的機制那麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12174.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12202.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
也共同來掌握台海周邊以及這個執行任何突發狀況的一個處置作為我想這個我們平時就就已經在建制就有建制好那日本和台灣這個長期的友好關係未來我相信在這個西南諸島強化各式的這個軍事整備對於台海的和平穩定會帶來正面的效應那也持續請我們國防部能夠對於這個部分的這個方面來加強 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12203.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12221.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
那另外我想就另外一個議題想請教部長在今年十月底監察院公布了一份調查報告當中提到在國防二法實施之後政府希望能夠引進一定比例的這個文職人員來參與國防事務以提升我們國防部決策的品質並且能夠達成 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12223.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12235.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
文人領軍的一個政策目標又提到在這個民主先進的國家任用國防文官的比例都超過七成以上我國的這個標準相較其他國家已經明顯的偏低 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12237.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12255.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
造成我們文官政策難以落實那在報告當中也提出幾項造成國防部文職缺額率偏高的一個癥結點包括這個升遷管道有限薪資誘因不足另外還有一個是文官心態的一個保守等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12255.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12275.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
而且監委認為在國防部對於三分之一的這個文職條款規定採取了不同的計算方式可能有意來掩飾長期以來任用這個文職未達法定比例的一個情形更讓我們這個條文形同虛設所以要求國防部進行檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12276.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12298.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
那在此我想對於這個監委所提出的這些質疑我想請教部長我們文職人員任用的這個比例究竟是多少那應該怎麼樣來落實三分之一的這個文職條款的規定又有關這個文職人員的不足的這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12301.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12316.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
光部現在已經全面性的在檢討有關這些文職人員在我們國軍內部特別是光部本部以及光部本部以下的這個一屬是 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12317.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12344.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
一署四局一署四局的這些部分我想我們會來一個想家的檢討那確實國安部的這個文職人員他們進來也要經過一些安全查核然後另外他也要對部裡面的組織文化要能夠適應才能夠長留久用這些但是這些都 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12347.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12376.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
不能夠說我們就因此就不需要來進行檢討所以我想我們要如何讓這些所有的應該願意來到國防部服務的這些文職人員能夠能夠理解國防部的整個的對他這個整個人生涯規劃的一個一個一個保障還有我想還有他的可能的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12379.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12394.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
就是說他對整個整個他的專業的一個要求等等的我覺得這個部分我們會做一個全面性的一個檢討好那最後一個問題我想在上週五我們也看到總統公佈了新任這個軍政副部長人選是我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12395.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12424.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
徐思簡博士來擔任那我們也知道徐副部長是學者出身那多年來在外交和國安的領域深耕也多次參與台美之間的重要這個對話會議那顧部長您在先前擔任國安會秘書長的時候他也和您配合多年我想請教部長那對於徐副部長來到國防部有什麼期待那希望能夠借重他的長才來推進哪些政策那有沒有可能會主責對於 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12425.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12439.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
這個對美的軍購另外您也身為這個文人部長對於文人領軍的這項政策考量到的政策目標和實施的實際的這個情形認為有什麼優缺點又該如何來做檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12442.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12470 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
簡要的回答三點第一點就是說軍政副部長即使是這個前任的這個伯副部長其實他也是以文職任用的只是說他們出身的背景可能會說伯副部長是過去是軍職出身的那現在的徐副部長是這個文職出身但我要講的第二點就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12471.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12492.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
徐司檢副部長事實上在國安會他的歷練很多部分都在國防的相關事務上面因為國安就是包括兩岸外交 國防那其中國防是佔了非常大的一部分所以您剛剛也提到在台北的軍事交流的部分很多時候都是由 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12494.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12517.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
當時的徐副秘書長或者現在後來的徐諮詢委員然後現在要再擔任副部長他由他率隊去參與這樣子的一個台美的軍事交流所以事實上是他對國防的事務是很閒熟的第三點我要說明的就是說我想我們用不管他的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12518.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12547.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
過去有沒有擔任軍職或者是他在國安會有相關的國防事務的歷練我們都希望他是一個我們都依賴他的專業專長那我們會希望他能夠深入參與各項的國防改革計畫然後對國防事務我相信他現在在有一定的深刻的掌握情況之下上任之後一定會持續發揮他這個國際事業跟戰略的一個長才來協助我們各項這個落實各項國防施政的措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12548.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12562.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
好 謝謝部長因為法規上有納入很多優秀文職參與國防事務的期待我們也期待我們國防部能夠朝這個目標積極來研議對 我們會來努力好 以上謝謝部長好 謝謝接下來請謝一鳳委員上台質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12582.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12585.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
謝謝主席我想要請我們顧部長請顧部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12595.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12621.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
部長早安我想請教一下就是美方希望我們國防預算的比例能夠佔GDP的比例能夠提高那這個部分是提高我們我國的防衛的能力那到底軍人的薪資算不算在國防預算裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12622.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
12639.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
是當然算在國防預算算在國防預算裡面是那所以我們現在希望國防部來對一般的就是說普遍的加薪以及現在你們國防部所推動的精準加緊 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
12640.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
12663.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
就是戰鬥部隊的加級這七項的加級的部分那其實都是整體性的來調高我們國軍的戰略的戰力那為什麼你們對於一般的國軍的加息不願意編列相關的預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
12665.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
12691.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
我想您提到的應該是指這個最近軍人待遇條例裡面的那個志願役加急的餘力調整為3萬塊這個部分那這個部分我想第一個說明就是說我們國防部隊與軍人待遇的調整一直是很重視的那我們主要就是會針對敵情的威脅防衛作戰需求跟勤務專業的特性跟繁重程度我們會 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
12692.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
12716.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
我們比較朝向是來持續檢討修訂各項的勤務佳績的支領對象種類跟發給的金額來做這樣子的一個整體的考量然後來維繫住我們整個各個各種不同部隊之間的這個它的這個邊線能夠維持住那所以我們認為 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
12718.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
12736.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
依照這樣子的一個說各個不同部隊裡面的可能是他的任務的繁重或者是他的一個專業的特性或者是他的艱困程度等等的或者危險程度等等我們來做一個整體的考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
12737.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
12757.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
我們朝這方面來做這樣子好 那你們都是在就是增加就是戰鬥部隊的勤務佳績應該不只我們會有各種不同的勤務佳績對 我知道那是不是會造成機程跟非戰鬥部隊的這個官兵相對的剝奪感呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
12758.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
12773.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
以及你認為這樣子會不會對於他們的士氣也造成了相關的影響呢那這樣子就不會提升戰力了那這對戰力會有整體性相對下降的影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
12775.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
12790.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
因為我們有一個沿西就是說戰鬥部隊的邊線比不夠高的情況之下我們第一步現在提升戰鬥部隊的一個加級不管是第一類的戰鬥部隊或第二類的戰鬥部隊 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
12792.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
12816.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
那先將這個屬於任務比較繁重比較艱困的戰鬥部隊加級先提高之後那我們其他的這些加級我們也都陸續的在檢討那所以您就會看到就是說我們的在報告裡面所提到的這個不管是六月或七月就會針對不同的加級也會來做調升 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
12819.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
12843.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
那現在有關您提到的這個戰鬥部隊這個基層跟就是非戰鬥部隊跟基層非戰鬥部隊的話那也要考慮他的很多方面比如說他的專業性他的技術性等等我們也會來持續的來檢討增加他的佳績 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
12844.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
12863.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
所以你們是部長你的意思是說對於非戰鬥部隊並不是不給予加級而是你們要增加一個就是整體性的評估戰力對於官兵有戰力的評估然後再給予加級嗎是這個意思嗎或者我這樣跟委員報告好這樣子好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
12864.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
12879.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
戰鬥部隊本身它就分成直接戰鬥的這個第一類型還有從事戰鬥支援任務的所以您講的非戰鬥部隊事實上在某種程度就涵蓋了很多是屬於戰鬥支援部隊的那現在就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
12880.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
12905.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
我們現在如何把這個戰鬥部隊這個層級要拉高這可能是我們要去檢討因為過去戰鬥部隊的層級是限制在聯級以下但事實上現在以一個聯兵旅作為一個打擊部隊或者是一個戰鬥部隊來看的話那麼所有的聯兵旅以下事實上都合乎戰鬥部隊的定義所以我們要檢討的是如何將這個戰鬥部隊的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
12908.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
12918.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
這個發放的這個對象的層級要檢討要來提升那這樣就等於包括所有直接要戰鬥或者支援戰鬥的這個部隊它所能夠涵蓋的範圍就整個會擴大那這樣子的話就會讓我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
12926.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
12945.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
這個需要提高這個變現比以及提高這個誘因的這個程度能夠像剛剛委員所講的精準的這個投放在我們需要增加的能力上面好那對於你們現在已經在調升的網路站的加級跟電真加級等高專業的技術加級 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
12948.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
12975.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
其實這個部分國防部怎麼確保跟民間的科技業你有同等級專業的薪資水平因為你知道現在不只是國防部的這個就是電資的相關的人員需要加薪那你知道民間的相關的這個部門需求也非常的緊那你怎麼樣子保持 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
12978.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
12987.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
這個確實不是一件非常容易的事情所以我們這一次在網路站加急的部分我們就將那個專家級的月資數額再調整1萬應該是到6萬所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
12993.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
13011.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
當然我們也知道沒有辦法完全的跟這個民間來做單純以薪資來講做一個競爭但是我想我們還是想辦法透過因為到國軍來有個好處就是我們對他的所有的培育他都不要花他 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
13014.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
13037.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
一個自己的錢然後都是由我們來支援那我們會有一個培育的計畫來讓他來那另外他隨著他的一個階級的調升他的薪水當然也會調升那再透過這樣子的所謂專家級精英級的可資領的人數的比例我們把它從15%提高到30% |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
13038.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
13058.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
然後像這樣子的一些誘因從人才的培育到給予他的家籍然後再透過不斷的一個階級他可能的一個被提升那我想國軍相對來講提供一個穩定的一個環境那同時也 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
13060.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
13074.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
也盡量的培育他成為一個高專人才我想透過這個方式來留住我們需要的這些那你認為現在透過相關的這樣子的待遇調整之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
13075.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13102.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
說志願役人數超過2000人那請問這些新增的人力主要集中在什麼樣的軍種什麼樣的階級跟什麼樣種位那是否真的能夠有效的改善以及對於你剛才所說的像現在的網路站也好 電偵站也好你有沒有辦法真的能夠就是說留住你需要的人才 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13103.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13116.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
我想我們說的是志願役的縣員叫去年成長兩千多個人不是超過兩千多 而是說我們當然還是要持續的努力至於那個網路站的 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13116.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
13136.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
跟委員報告那就針對網路站的部分要自從今年6月份開始這個調整之後那在這個從事這相關的人員的這個流行比率都有提升都有提升是不是是的好好謝謝謝委員好謝謝接下來請鄭天才委員上台資訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13157.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13186.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
主席 各位委員 還有請部長請部長部長 是 政委我每一次在執行國防部都會強調精良的軍備要專精的國軍這是我一直在強調的部分我看這個國防預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13189.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13203.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
從2015年3308億 逐漸每年的調增尤其是這幾年 這幾年調增的非常非常的高2025年已經到7726億 明年9495億 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13209.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13235.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
當然還有賴總統已經宣布的行政院也已經將這個特別條例送來了也就是1.25兆這樣的一個國防的預算在這樣的一個情形之下志願役的士兵 使領的薪資待遇我們看這個二等兵 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
13237.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13264.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
從這個一百一十四年四萬兩千多一等兵四萬四千多上等兵四萬五千多大家都知道軍人基本上都要在營區裡面不像一般的公教勞工每天可以回家隨時可以回家隨時可以請假 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13266.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13294.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
軍人不是這樣這差很多所以這個比較是很難比較的如果我們跟這個現在勞工的這個薪資2025年每人每月的經常性薪資四萬七千多都比這個志願役的軍人士兵來的勞工的平均薪資高很多 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13296.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13317.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
所以在這樣的情形之下今天國防部的報告一再強調的這是你們今天的報告已完成十項加解的增加第一加解 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13318.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13345.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
勤務加級 勤務加級包含戰鬥部隊加級 網路戰加級戰航管加級 電偵加級 三軍儀隊加級空降特戰加級 軍法加級從退伍金從退伍金的計算不包含加級不包含這些地域加級 勤務加級 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
13347.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
13374.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
志願役的士兵他跟勞工不一樣他可以做到65歲勞工志願役的士兵部長你知道嗎 志願役的士兵可以當幾年10年10年對不對他10年非得要離開不可除非他念了士官對不對當了士官他就要離開 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
13377.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
13403.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
而我們士官有限都有比例都有人數的限制規定所以志願役士兵是最基本最基礎最重要的戰力的部隊增加這些家籍對他退伍毫無幫助 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13405.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13431.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
有時候他退伍很難找工作 要做農 當勞工勞工要從最基層開始 從頭算所以這些都是需要去考量的部分所以我們在軍人待遇條例裡面雖然這一次的跟這個沒有關係但是我是要建議國防部 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13432.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
13461.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
也可以也應該不是可以應該要提軍人待遇的條例的修正將相關的本縫最主要是本縫嘛能夠給提高有很多的這個軍人不見得有這些家籍啊但是他們一樣要退伍啊所以包括一樣士官軍官也是一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
13463.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
13474.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
他們的這些退伍也只計算本縫這些第一家級勤務家級沒有包含在裡面部長你的意見如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
13475.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
13492.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
跟委員報第一個就是說您剛提到那個二兵的那個我們在報告裡面有提到就是說如果你以這個基本待遇來看包括本碰專業家族跟志願家族的話二兵現在來看就這三項的基本待遇是42,150塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
13495.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
13522.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
但是他通常會如果再加入戰鬥部隊的話所以我們這次就大幅的調高戰鬥部隊所以他如果加上戰鬥部隊他就會到達五萬四千一百五十塊我只是在說明就是說他一般像二兵或者是一兵或者上等兵等等他如果在戰鬥部隊他就會有戰鬥部隊的加急所以我們之所以會調高戰鬥部隊的加急也就在提高這方面的誘因 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
13523.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
13538.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
那自願一加級他就您剛提到的他不會算入退休的時候的部分所以調高自願一加級也是增加他的基本待遇但是就他的退休來看的話並不會 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
13540.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
13566.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
因為志願一家級的增加而提高他的退休的給予那退休的給予的部分剛剛您所提到主要在本碰的部分那本碰的部分因為是軍公教整個一體來考量所以他有一個整個軍公教的一個整體考量的問題所以就像軍公教加薪那軍人也加薪那本碰的部分也是軍公教一體來考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
13567.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
13593.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
這個重點 但是事實上應該分開來講公教 公教他 我剛一開始講了 他可以隨時每天回家還有加班 他有加班費對不對 他有很多相關的這些另外一種待遇或者是叫 稱為福利所以軍人 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
13595.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
13624.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
不一樣 真的不一樣除了增加 你已經增加了這些第一階級 前物階級之外更應該去增加它的本諷沒有 因為它的規定是另外一條法例並沒有跟公務人員的諷刑法跟教師的諷刑法是分開的 是另外一個法例 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
13626.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
13651.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
跟委員報告一下 如果您去看它那個我們現在均文通用的 它都會有一個文質的一個質等然後跟我們軍中的這個階級會有一個比序所以你如果我們這個植物是均文通用我們有時候會用文質 我們有時候會用均質所以在本碰上面來講 這個比序上面不可能有過大的一個差異 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
13653.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
13679.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
這個部長沒有什麼不可能要不要做而事實上像剛剛前衛委員在陳俊宇委員提到我們要增加文職人員的那我們就要這兩回事 文職跟武職的軍人當然你現在是一樣也不對啊所以這個部分是可以分開的就如同公務人員公務人員也有不同 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
13680.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
13696.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
所以這個部分技術人員跟公務人員的也不一樣在公務人員裡面一般的公務人員跟技術人員的也不一樣所以這個部分給我們國防部 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
13697.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
13722.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
尤其是部長這邊能夠把它列入一個很重要的一個課題我想我們會來跟行政執行溝通我只要說明就是說在國安二法實施之後現在很多的這個職務其實都是軍文通用的所以在考量這個軍文通用的情況之下這個本碰的調整其實是一個是一個必須要整體規劃的一個事項部長我一開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
13728.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
13754.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
韓國防的軍備軍購經費然後現在又送了這個新的軍購的經費所以更需要更多的國軍能夠投入這個很重要一定要是分開的好 以上 謝謝好 謝謝接下來請李昆城委員上台質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
13763.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
13766.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
主席好我們先讓部長喝口水來請顧部長請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
13776.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
13796.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
是 李委員部長好 辛苦了賴總統在11月26號有召開一個守護民主台灣的國安行動方案然後特別提到說這個2027年中國以2027年為節點作為推進武統台灣的各項準備還有提醒就是說這個2027年可能是一個節點 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
13797.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
13824.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
然後呢這個其實2027年呢也不是賴總統他先講出來的那其實在這個2021年的時候當時候的這個美軍的印太司令部的司令戴維生他就提到說2020年的3月他說台灣是中國野心的一部分那這樣的威脅在未來的10年甚至6年就是2027年的時候就可能會顯現所以那時候大家就給這個戴維生 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
13825.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
13850.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
他所講這句話 稱之為戴維森的窗口接下來從2021年3月到2025年的3月 這幾年來包含印太司令 美軍的參謀首長聯席會議中央情報局 CIA等等都有提到說中國尋求在2027年就具備侵台的能力 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
13852.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
13873.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
做好了一個供台的一個準備因為2027年也是中國解放軍的建軍百年然後我們今年的這個漢光41號演習我們今年的漢光41號演習是不是也是這個以2027年中共可能犯台來做一個演習的一個演練 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
13874.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
13895.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
我們是以在2027年以前達成這個我們的各部隊的一個高戰備的能力作為目標那所以今年的這個漢光40號演習的確也是以2027年為這個中共揮帶的辛勞還有可能犯台的一個行動所做的一個準備嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
13896.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
13917.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
我們在做各項的訓練操演的時候我們現在都是以2027年達到高戰備能力為目標這個意思就是說我們在面對任何的敵情威脅或接獲任何的命令的時候能夠在最短的時間內全面達到可以立即出動作戰的一個備戰狀態所以部長也是認為說2027年是一個節點就對了 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
13925.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
13942.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
我們作為一個準備要有準備的一個觀念我們要以2027年達到高戰備能力那所謂的高戰備能力是指高戰備能力就是剛剛講的就是各級部隊要依照這個敵情威脅或接或任何 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
13943.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
13964.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
的作戰命令的時候能夠在最短的時間內全面達到可立即出動作戰的一個備戰狀態那我們會透由這一個相關的立即備戰操演跟聯合作戰防禦操演等等各方面的一個實戰化的聯合作戰訓練來確保我們整個聯合作戰計畫可以周延可行那同時 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
13965.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
13979.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
也要結合我們相關籌貨的縣市裝備然後還有兵力結構調整然後達到一個快速形成集戰力的那我就請教部長那其實這一個函我們立法院剛剛通過了這個國土安全韌性 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
13980.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
14005.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
有國防部的預算 1151億之前還有兩項正在執行中的預算一個是新式戰機的採購一個是海空戰力提升的計畫採購這兩項的特別預算也都有提到 因為這兩項的特別預算在執行當中的戰機 海空戰力提升都是到明年結束 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
14008.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
14028.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
對 應該是都是到明年結束嘛因為都是到115年結束嘛金氏在金是109到115然後呢 海空戰力提升計畫是115到111到115所以明年 明年總共如果順利啦這個1.25兆的這個預算有過關的話明年有四項軍事特別預算在執行嘛 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
14031.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
14053.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
明年的話 至少有三樣的嘛如果這一次的特別預算這個也通過的話會有四個特別預算有四項嘛 對不對因為剛通過一下嘛 國土安全任性的嘛兩項在最前當中的嘛 對不對就是海控戰略還有先是這個戰機嘛然後還有一項是這個還不知道能不能過的就是1.25兆的 剛提出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
14054.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
14071.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
那我再請教一下部長因為其實大家也很關心就是說未來如果這個1.25招能夠過的話我們採購的武器要能夠及時到位嗎那我先問為什麼是編8年因為過去我們這個軍事特別預算大概都是編4到6年那為什麼這次是編到8年 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
14074.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
14100.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
這個我們考量有三個因素第一個是我們目前的敵情威脅的部分第二個部分是針對這個敵情威脅我們所需要在這個時間比較短的時間之內獲得的有哪些第三個部分是有一些針對中期性的防衛韌性的部分需要能量建構的部分我們大概也做一個統整所以在這個部分我們包含了不對稱戰力跟防衛韌性的兩個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
14101.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
14125.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
我們整個規劃起來就是以8年為基對 那我的意思是說如果以2027年為一個節點的話那我們的這些不對稱的這些戰力的採購不是應該更早獲得嗎比如說在4年的時間就應該要獲得了不是拉到8年嗎鮑委員 針對2027的這個部分我們主要以整件不對稱戰力為主這個部分是滿足敵型威脅陡峰的這個需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
14127.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
14148.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
對 那我的意思是說你們也是拉長到8年對但是我們所要的這個不對稱的作戰的能力應該是未來這兩三年就應該要有了對不對應該是說2027年以前我們都是以執行中的一個大部分是以執行中的暗項來作為我們具備基本不對稱作戰能力的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
14150.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
14173.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
希望在2027年之前就能夠形成我們現在已經透過公務預算還有剛剛您提到的兩個特別預算等等讓我們來具備這個基本的兩年的時間能夠買到這些我們所需要的不對稱作戰的武器嗎我們現在已經在執行中的包括用我們年度預算還有特別預算那我講的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
14174.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
14196.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
那現在下來的是更進一步的來去形成提高一個我們更多於巨子的這個完備我們多於巨的能力來整個再大幅提升這個我們整體的防衛作戰能力那所以應該是在前比如說3到4年應該是這些不對稱作戰武器的採購的高峰吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
14198.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
14223.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
應該是吧 因為不可能拉到八年去了不可能嘛 應該是為了這三四年的時間吧我們應該還要看我們整個籌貨的一個期程是剛剛提到的我們的需求 美軍能夠提供的應該是這樣去談吧還有自製的還有自製的那我再問一個 其實大家應該有關心的事情就是我們的F-16V的戰機 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
14225.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
14230.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
那因為現在已經12月了那因為他這個特別預算是到明年那請問一下部長那這66架的這個戰機何時能夠到台灣來 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
14237.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
14263.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
這有關係到未來的大家審特別預算的時候都會問到是 鮑委員這個F16的這個部分我們已經和美國政府在催促洛馬公司加速產製那後面當然要配合他整個測試進度的進行飛機組合應該渴望在明年完成所有機隊可是測試的部分為了確保他的安全我們目前還是採取比較審慎的態度去走 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
14263.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
14291.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
那這個部分包圍您可以看到我們其他公務預算的項目事實上都已經在趕上進度了包括海馬士M1A2T跟兩型的反戰車飛彈NASAMS等都已經回到正常的進度來交那我們相關未來的項目也會跟我們所要採購的方向包含商購軍購跟偽製的這個部分我們會確定它的產製期程能夠滿足我們的需求我們才來做那所以66架再接是 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
14292.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
14320.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
明年能夠順利交機嗎包委員我是空氣商務長跟您做一個簡單的報告這個前面的委員諮詢過的我們也都知道F16交機確實有非常嚴重的這個延宕但是我們從這個今年的會期開始也不斷的在催促也不斷的一直在加強事實上從上個會期的提報到現在我們的產線從50架已經進步到54架進度到54架還在持續的在增加當中所以說已經做到54架了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
14321.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
14349.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
進到場裡面開始組裝的有54架了我們在10月份的時候是50架那現在已經有開始進到場裡面去他一定是有一定的進度他才能再有一架新飛機進去所以說這個進度其實是一直在趕工那這個部分我們也跟美國政府提出非常嚴重的關切那美國政府也跟落馬還有我們包含跟落馬直接開會這個進度都一直在進行那包含了飛勢的部分那這個部分也提早到今這個月會開始來進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
14350.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
14375.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
主席我最後一個問題這個是剛剛媒體所寫的就是說針對中國目前制裁日本但是似乎沒有達到一個效果所以有可能國安單位的一個官員他來講就是說有可能是在12月13號南京大屠殺的國家攻擊日 中國他們會發動一個聯合利劍西的演習 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
14377.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
14400.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
這個請問一下部長有聽到類似的這一個說法嗎我想國防部立場還是會根據相關的這些預警徵狗我們會來充分的掌握然後相關的這些可能的動態所以我們還是以預警相關的徵狗來作為判斷的基礎那這個禮拜有任何比較不尋常的一些徵狗嗎我想這個部分可能我們如果委員要了解我們另外再找 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
14401.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
14423.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
跟委員做說明所以是有可能中國會在齊虎南下的情況之下會藉機發揮嗎我們不會做任何的一個臆測我們只會依據相關的預警政府來做判斷那有做好相關的準備嗎我們都會根據預警相關政府來做好這個相關的因應的準備好 謝謝部長 謝謝主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
14425.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
14442.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
謝謝就我們對美軍購的部分因為之前美方好像有提到過去其實可能要必須要百分之百達到的標準他甚至為了要因應要交貨他可能百分之八十的那個標準可能就要給我們這個部分我們要請國防部也要特別 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
14446.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
14465.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
就這個部分因為我們不能隨便說啊像你們M1A2結果來的時候連那個戰場管理都沒有你還要用對講機那這樣的風險到底要怎麼樣去因應我覺得這個部分我們也要相對要去掌握謝謝那接下來請洪孟凱委員上台質詢主席謝謝麻煩請顧部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
14476.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
14505.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
請顧部長顧部長捍衛中華民國我們一起努力但是也很務實的來看我們最近幾個特別預算也好或說我們國防部的相關預算的運用所以剛剛其實本席我想我跟我們執政黨的委員或是全國的民眾其實也很關心就是說如果現在總統提出了1.25兆的特別預算的軍購費用的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
14505.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
14516.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
你雖然是八年的一個執行期但是針對可能中共的武力犯台或者是他的一個準備的部分我們有多少比例是那兩三年裡面就要先建構完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
14518.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
14538.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
您講的是指下來的特別預算嗎是的下來特別預算我想具體的項目等到條例通過以後我們編列預算的時候但你們應該會有一個規劃跟期程嗎因為如果說現在如同總統那天講雖然他到時候自己臉書又改口可是他一開始在記者會講的是2027年中共有犯台 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
14539.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
14565.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
的時間點後來再改口說的準備但不管是的準備或是犯台那重點在於是2027年是總統已經明確的透過他的嘴以及透過臉書上就寫出來這個時間點嘛那我們想請教一下如果說現在我們在2025年年底討論的這個特別預算那我們未來你拉8年的一個時間那我們自己合理的分配會是怎麼樣有沒有辦法把錢花在倒口上 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
14566.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
14585.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
我想我們以8年的時間作為籌購當然主要就是因為因應我們能夠不管是軍購或者是商購或者是偽製的這個期程而來訂定那我們也在之前已經說明就是說我們就我們能夠籌獲的這個項目我們來維持我們的高戰備以2027年作為一個目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
14590.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
14619.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
那之後我們相關的這些特別條例所需要的這些預算然後來進行相關的這些武器的籌貨的這個期程我想我們還要等到條例通過以後編列的這個預算項目部長你還是沒有回答本市問題不過之後我們針對特別預算也一定會有專案報告那時候我們再請教好不好那第二個問題大家都知道現在有6000多億我們的軍售是我們付了錢但是武器還沒有來那我們想請教如果未來特別預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
14620.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
14642.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
的部分執行我們有沒有防避機制或是說我們能夠保障怎麼樣能夠花了錢之後拿到武器這部分我們比較具體的規劃我們比較具體的規劃保障我們自己我們都如果說要加強台灣的國防能力要加強中華民國的捍衛自主能力我們都支持但重點是怎麼樣把錢花在刀口上能夠確保 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
14644.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
14671.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
兩點跟委員報告第一個卡托這個六千六百多億這個數字是錯的我們上次已經說過說明說明一下我們到底要怎麼樣保障我們能夠拿到我們的花了錢拿到我們的武器第二點的部分我們會依據武器交運的期程來管制我們付款的進度同時也會催促美方必須如期如質的把我們要的所以未來我們有可能變成是貨到付款 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
14672.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
14699.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
可以嗎我們現在做的就是在產線裡面他做生產的部分我們做一個支付但是如果說他有產生鹽蛋的部分我們會跟美方來做支付然後等到他趕上進度之後我們後續再進行付款但跟現在不是一樣嗎我只是說現在的做法就已經有造成我們沒有辦法在時間內F16戰機到目前為止沒有交任何一架是事實嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
14700.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
14723.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
是不是他已經開始在進行測試了沒有錯 沒有交付那原本報告的時候是什麼時候要交付其實已經延宕了不是嗎那本席現在只要問還有很多問題我只要請直接明白告知這一次如果說特別預算採購跟之前有沒有什麼不一樣的地方還是我們到目前為止還沒有辦法有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
14726.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
14755.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
不一樣的付款或說不一樣我們可以更保障我們自己能夠準確武器交貨的時間包委員我們這一次的特別預算因為涵蓋了商購 偽製跟軍購所以付款的方式當然會有相當大的不同至於軍購的這個那保障的部分呢保障的部分偽製跟商購的部分是按照既有政府查購法的規範軍購的部分我們還是會持續要求美方去所以軍購沒有辦法但是偽製商購是還有討論的空間因為它跟軍購本來就不一樣嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
14755.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
14758.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
好來我第三個問題喔那個部長我先 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
14760.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
14788.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
這個是這兩天這個國防部的回應這媒體的報導我讓您知道一下就說國防部講說台灣之盾是要建立重重的這個攔截網導入AI輔助整合決策跟感知系統有效的整體防空系統那未來均列為我們商籌採購選商籌購的潛在表底換言之台灣之盾的部分有大部分方向可能都會採取商購是不是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
14791.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
14798.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
那個台灣之盾的這個部分包含了過去現在還有未來規劃的這些相關的項目有商購有軍購其實這個項目裡面大部分是屬於軍購跟我們偽製的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
14804.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
14824.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
那這三個部分包含ShooterSensor跟戰場管理的系統的這個部分我們都會按照我們的需求針對市場上面只要符合作戰需求的部分納入我們選購的項目那這個部分要做一個非常詳細的評估因為尤其是系統整合段如果沒有辦法有效的去整合我們各式系統的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
14826.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
14848.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
包含從高層的反彈防空到低層的反無人機它的效果就會降低這個是我們未來努力的一個方向所以這才是本席所擔心 沒有錯這就是本席看到新聞報導是這樣寫因為他還講說是國防部著30日表示然後你說有這些相關均列為我未來選商籌購的潛在標的所以本席才會 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
14849.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
14878.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
才會提出這個質疑也想要請教就教我們現在的規劃方向因為你剛剛一直提到兩個部分嘛本席先問是說1.25兆跟之前的特別預算有什麼不同你講說1.25兆裡面有商購有偽製跟軍售所以說商購跟偽製的部分有相對比較有談判的空間這是你剛剛回答的第二本席引用媒體的報導媒體報導也是國防部的回應講說台灣之盾有 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
14879.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
14901.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
AI等相關系統是有選商籌購那我們要問的是說到底我們現在主要的方向因為花錢買相關是一回事但是能不能有效運用是一回事那還有到底1.25兆有多少比例是商購有多少比例是偽製有多少比例是軍售現在能不能回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
14902.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
14922.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
包委員這個部分我們會在預算書表進入大院審查的時候向對外說明好所以說條例通過之後預算書表進來之後會有一個比較明白的一個我們會有專報然後我們也會對外說明但是本時要問的是那個部長我再請教因為最後的時間大家現在有都看到我們現在對美關稅談判 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
14924.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
14942.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
之前四月的時候提出美國川普總統提出關稅當時我們就講說那對美因為主要美國總統川普他提出關稅是因為逆差的狀況那我們那時候也講是說我們購買那麼大量的軍事武器算不算不算 軍售是不算可是商購是算的 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
14943.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
14960.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
那所以說在1.25兆裡面我們現在如果說有部分是維持所謂的商購的話那有沒有納入這一次的這個對美關稅的談判小組裡面增加籌碼去跟美國談判我想對美的談判不是我主責的是 但是我知道但是我說我們提出這個部分就 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
14962.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
14978.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
談判小組有沒有掌握這一塊是能夠讓美國知道在談判的因為到目前為止關稅還沒有出來啊但我們能夠增加籌碼我們要增加籌碼啊如果說總統已經都宣誓說有1.25兆那可是我們現在都不知道1.25兆到底內容是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
14979.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
14994.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
談判小組他們有沒有至少你內部溝通開會討論的時候你們會比較掌握方向吧那有沒有去增加我們談判的籌碼讓美國知道是說我們在這個部分其實也有部分的商用採購是應該要列入談判籌碼的 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
14995.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
15024.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
我想經濟跟安全的議題是雙軌的所以我想我們就這個關於武器的這些採購的方式不管是軍購還是商售還是自主生產的委制我想我們都要等到條例通過以後才會提出具體的一個規劃那豆色再跟委員報告那關稅的談判我想沒有應該是沒有將我們現在要還沒有條例還沒有通過的這個預算項目把它納入談判的籌碼裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].start |
15026.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].end |
15039.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].text |
這難道不是一個我們中華民國政府整體對美國談判的一個通盤條件嗎我想我們的或是我們通盤的一個如果說因為部長你可以理解本席的隱憂 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].start |
15041.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].end |
15063.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].text |
國防部做國防部的事情國防部提出相關特別預算但對於全體2350萬的全國人民來講但現在要看到的是對美的關稅的部分以及特別預算到底有沒有把錢花在刀口上這都是環環相扣的啊那如果說你們現在沒有把這一個部分把它納入讓談判小組更有底氣的話那這樣子不就是變成是多頭馬車各做各的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].start |
15064.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].end |
15087.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].text |
而且本席剛剛已經開宗明義強調了軍售不算我知道所以我也沒有講說軍售的部分但你們既然已經提出1.25兆裡面有軍售有偽製有商購那就代表是說有商購的部分其實是我們可以讓美國政府知道我們也有這樣的規劃不是嗎我想我們還是等條例通過以後才能夠有一個確定的規劃方向因為所以目前看起來是沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].start |
15088.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].end |
15104.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].text |
您的意思說跟關稅談判嗎是 我想關稅談判有關稅談判主責的一個單位所以現在是脫鉤的不只是確定一下我並不清楚這個關稅的談判他們的談判的內容好 了解 謝謝好 謝謝接下來請楊瓊英委員上台質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].start |
15117.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].end |
15118.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].text |
謝謝主席 本席邀請部長請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].start |
15133.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].end |
15149.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].text |
總統宣示我國將要編列高達新台幣1.25兆的軍購特別預算過去這幾個月本席一直坊間聽到媒體聽到巨額的預算的傳言 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].start |
15150.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].end |
15175.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].text |
那我在本席在國防委員會呢也跟您探討過同時也在總質詢也跟院長談過那院長跟您呢都沒有具體的一個回答所以本席要請教既然總統先生已經正式的對外說明那時間數字依據到底是不是成如現在所公佈的也就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].start |
15176.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].end |
15201.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].text |
要1.25兆的軍購特別預算請說明1.25兆就是按照條例的話就是屬於我們整個預算的一個上限那具體的預算的編制要在不能夠超過這個預算上限的情況之下來具體來編列好 所以這個是確實也就是當時您回答本席說這個條例送到行政院去審議 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].start |
15202.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].end |
15218.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].text |
那卓院長呢在總諮詢的時候回答本席說他知道這個是但是不了解內容那現在我們終於也知道了也就是1.25兆是你們預定的上限的這個預算數是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].start |
15219.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].end |
15240.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].text |
所以本席要請教也就是總統先生是在投書給華盛頓郵報但是我們覺得說目前為止總統先生已經對外宣告所以這個確定是屬實但是到目前為止我們國人針對於新戰略 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].start |
15242.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].end |
15257.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].text |
那也沒有兵力跟戰術的一個配套我們國人都不清楚在這樣情況之下總統投書外媒是為了什麼呢有人說是為了內宣 是不是如此啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].start |
15258.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].end |
15285.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].text |
我想總統投訴外媒也是在尋求說國際上對我們依照我們防衛作戰的需求提高這個國防預算然後讓跟國際做一個戰略溝通讓國際能夠了解我們有自我防衛的決心有捍衛我們民主價值的一個決心是 讓國際了解當然要做但是讓國人了解應該是更重要吧這一些的預算都是人民的納稅錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].start |
15287.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].end |
15309.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].text |
所以在不清楚兵力到底是怎麼樣通通都不知道所以總統台會特別有召開記者會有做一個說明那我們也做一個說明那我這邊還是要說明就是我們現在在條例的一個階段那現在提出一個經費的上限然後我們也有說明採購的一些項目那具體的這個經費的編列要等到大院能夠通過這個條例哇 那個事大條喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].start |
15312.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].end |
15317.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].text |
因為你現在也不知那條例也還在審但是總統已經對外說 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].start |
15320.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].end |
15347.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].text |
那人民到底總統就是說明我們這個條例提出來經費的我們要提出來的整個的所需要的經費上限就新台幣一兆2500億所以部長這是史上最高的軍購特別預算那不管過去藍綠都執政的時候沒有提過這麼高這是史上也等於是過去國防部四個特別預算的一個總和所以本期要再請教 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].start |
15348.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].end |
15375.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].text |
如果我們現在所說的你們說是這1.25兆全數要舉債嗎按照這個規定相關的這個預算條例預算條例來看就是會有以稅計歷年的以前年度稅計剩餘然後還有這個舉債這個兩個管道那這可能會讓我們政府舉債突破天際 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].start |
15377.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].end |
15400.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].text |
這有可能喔所以本席再請教我們這個條例裡面它有說明就是說它還是要符合財政紀律法14條第二項規定意旨就是舉債比例要有一定的一個控管的機制所以請教部長整個預算跟特別預算在條例的適應期間的舉債額度的合計數不能夠超過該期間總預算跟特別預算稅數總額合計數的15%部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].start |
15404.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].end |
15412.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].text |
過去被延遲交貨的採購案都還沒有解決那我們現在衝突的繼續採購會不會把人民當當大頭 當攀納我想我們這個整個的預算的籌編都是根據我們的整體防衛作戰的需求考量敵情的威脅來編列 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].start |
15431.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].end |
15454.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].text |
國家的安全當然全民會支持 本席也支持但是 本席要再次強調不能讓人民當攀囊 當體管制所以本席要請教在野黨提出了普發現金修正財務法在當時都是被罵的臭頭但是政府 要謝謝政府終於聽到明末普發現金現在在執行中 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].start |
15455.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].end |
15475.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].text |
但是我們看到為了軍人加薪預算一年只有300億這個充實國防當然是要為軍人加薪啊部長 你同意為軍人加薪嗎依法 立法院三讀通過了依法 編列 你會編列嗎 你同意嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].start |
15477.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].end |
15501.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].text |
國防部的一貫的立場就是要不斷的去整體調整這個軍人的待遇結構所以我們一直在說明我們會依照一直持續來檢討修訂各項的勤務佳績的資歷對象種類跟法律請針對本席的提問依法 台灣是一個民主法治國家立法院三讀通過一年只有300億 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].start |
15503.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].end |
15513.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].text |
跟我們現在所提的軍購軍購再怎麼樣沒有人執行這怎麼辦所以本席再一次請教您身為國防部長啊那您會同意軍人加薪編列這300億嗎依法編列 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].start |
15522.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].end |
15546.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].text |
我想就這個您講的 提到的這個軍人待遇條例直接規範這個資源一加幾 三萬塊這個部分這個在宣導的時候 默併制效果非常好行政院說明已經依照憲政的精神提出釋憲那基於行政議題的原則你身為國防部長 本席要請教 部長你是軍人的大家長你同不同意依法編列這三百億 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].start |
15547.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].end |
15551.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].text |
我們會持續檢討修訂各項的請問佳績我們認為要從整個軍人待遇的結構來檢討整個我們認為所需要編列的這個相關的這些預算來達到我們提高我們相關國防人力戰力的一個需求的一個精確的目標我們會朝這個方向一直持續來努力你不回答本席 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].start |
15574.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].end |
15578.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].text |
本席不願意解讀說你不願意編但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].start |
15579.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].end |
15604.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].text |
我們希望你身為部長依法行政是無必要做的那同時我們也知道你要怎麼樣讓國軍能夠安心他才有最強的戰鬥力為國家來奮來奮鬥來奉獻所以本期再請教一句依法三讀通過的一年將近如果跟軍購的預算來比他是他是 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].start |
15608.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].end |
15637.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].text |
維護其為所以請教再請教一次部長你會同意依法編列一年將近只有300億讓國軍能夠安心的這筆預算嗎法制化我的回答還是兩點第一點我們會持續的檢討軍人待遇的這個各項家籍的調升基於整體的規劃那基於行政第二點基於行政一體原則本部尊重行政院對於國家施政各項預算的分配本部尊重行政院所以本席最後 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].start |
15637.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].end |
15656.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].text |
要告訴部長部長一定要為國軍爭取權益不要讓行政院違法不變違法不變所以本席要請教總統先生中國大陸以2027年台灣這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].start |
15658.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].end |
15675.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].text |
武統台灣為目標那我們發覺這個貼文有所改變了它改為2027年完成武統台灣的準備為目標所以本席要請教在這樣的字眼是以總統先生 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].start |
15676.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].end |
15698.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].text |
來對外來指出在臉書上面所以本席要請教這個甚至可能會影響到各項外國人要來台灣投資國內的軍心是不是能夠安定所以本席要請教因為會發這樣的臉書的字眼把時間點都定下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].start |
15699.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].end |
15722.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].text |
那請教是不是有收集到相關的情資所以總統才會這麼樣的來對外宣稱呢我想兩點第一點我們國軍還是以達到這個2027年才達到高戰備能力作為一個目標第二點有關共軍的這個動態我們都會嚴密監控再來觀察那就各項的這個共軍的這個情況我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].start |
15727.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].end |
15746.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].text |
透過聯合情監的手段也透過跟友盟溝通的多項管道我們會持續對共軍各項的徵喉來進行全面的掌控所以請教目前我們所提出不管是條例等這一些的軍事採購跟軍力的部署 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].start |
15749.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].end |
15774.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].text |
都是以這樣子的前提2027年的目標來做這個因應嗎是不是如此我們2027年完成高發戰備能力但是我們現在提出來的這個特別條例包括了軍購包括了商購包括了委制案我們都是以我們能夠建立更進一步的多域拒絕能力來強化我們的防衛作戰的能力為目標強化作戰為目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].start |
15779.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].end |
15800.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].text |
但是如果以總統的高位直接點名中共武力犯台的時間你認為這樣適當嗎我想剛剛你也提到了這個我想總統的意思就是要我們這個做好相關的準備我們也以2027年達成高戰備能力作為一個目標謝謝接下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].start |
15807.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].end |
15810.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].text |
請伍麗華委員上台質詢謝謝主席有請顧部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].start |
15831.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].end |
15852.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].text |
是 委員好部長好今天的專報我們看到國防部是針對軍人薪資待遇現行的做法跟未來的調整規劃來做一個報告那實際上去年賴總統上任以來呢我們也聽到了這個消息那也提出了五項加急的調整方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].start |
15852.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].end |
15871.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].text |
那在4月1號呢也開始生效那我是想跟部長就教就是我們從現在的軍隊的邊線比還有志願役的人數節節下降逐年下降我們可以知道說真的這個是為了要解決國軍的人才慌啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].start |
15872.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].end |
15892.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].text |
那我們也知道說現在不分官科官兵從一兵到上將大概這樣調整之後也大概整體平均也都增加了一萬多的薪水那我只是想先請教一下部長您覺得軍官跟士官目前都很缺那哪個比較缺 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].start |
15896.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].end |
15913.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].text |
軍官跟士官我想應該根據部隊的不同有不同的一個邊線比沒有辦法直接這樣子來說吧如果說如果你總體的邊線比來比的話那當然還是軍官的邊線比會比較高一點總體啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].start |
15915.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].end |
15939.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].text |
但是每個部隊應該也都有不同好 跟我們的認知差不多啦那最主要是說因為我作為一個原住民我們原住民投入國軍的比例相當的高所以我們自己的親友身邊的朋友其實軍人非常的多那也經常聊天可以知道他們的想法那我以我們原住民來講我聽到的 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].start |
15939.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].end |
15959.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].text |
他們呢其實比較不喜歡去當軍官讀軍校軍官的預備因為要輪調他們比較喜歡的是士官因為呢可以常駐那除了離家近那有的不能離家近他們也可以舉家搬遷那孩子的一個就業啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].start |
15960.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].end |
15988.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].text |
就學其實對他們來講他們比較能夠照顧家庭可是我們看軍官他的招募管道非常的多元除了正期班也有專業軍官班常備軍官班預備軍官班那甚至引進美國的這些年有一個叫ROTC可是我們反觀士官他就是二專班還有預備士官班那為什麼我要特別提到這個因為我們看到這個ROTC這些年 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].start |
15989.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].end |
16003.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].text |
他其實我們看到他的這個計劃招募的人員跟他報名的跟他錄取的感覺上好像高錄取率那他的退訓呢也是高退訓率 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].start |
16004.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].end |
16019.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].text |
所以立法院的法治局其實在過去也曾經做過一個預警就是提到說這個ROTC的機制恐怕有待通盤檢討那我在這邊想請教一下部長有檢討嗎 檢討出有什麼樣的一個方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].start |
16024.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].end |
16035.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].text |
我想ROTC它主要是招募民間的大學在招募的過程當中我們有一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].start |
16038.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].end |
16061.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].text |
就是說招募的成效 招募應該說招募進來之後那麼他會有一個適應的一個問題那我想這個部分我們可能還要在這個確實要通寒的一個檢討說這個退訓高的一個原因 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].start |
16062.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].end |
16091.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].text |
最重要當然就是說我們剛開始應該還是在廣招這個人才嘛那在這個期間當中他民間大學他也許他的選擇性會比較高所以他就會有可以選擇但是我們認為這個管道還是很重要我們還是要持續來溫習謝謝部長的回應其實不外乎幾個原因啦當然我們都知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].start |
16091.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].end |
16117.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].text |
有時候是因為志趣不合他選擇離開有時候實在是因為他可能能力不及所以被迫離開不管是什麼原因甚至是招募的時候招募人員可能為了要能夠看到數字所以也許他適合陸戰的跑到海軍然後發現自己不適合其實原因很多這個部分真的是希望你們能夠通盤檢討但是我還是想要回到 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].start |
16120.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].end |
16135.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].text |
就是比起軍官我們很多人更想要擔任士官是因為他的誘因因為很多人他想要他可能就不選擇升學了他希望可以趕快賺錢他也不想多花時間讀大學而且呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].start |
16136.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].end |
16162.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].text |
士官比較不用輪調他可以選擇做到退休做一輩子但是他的培育的管道卻比軍官少很多那實際上我們一個連來講假設我們就以100人的左右的連來講好了可能軍官需要五位那士官需要三四十位所以其實士官的需求量是蠻好的那我看到國防部 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].start |
16163.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].end |
16179.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].text |
你們有在10月份的時候寫到一個精進士官制度那立法院的法治局在109年的時候他也有一個延期精進士官的制度所以呢我其實這個地方來是想要見請部長既然我們都有 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].start |
16179.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].end |
16205.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].text |
就是學美國這種ROTC的一個預備軍官的做法我希望士官的招募也能夠有類似的管道提升我們士官招募的成效為什麼我這樣講我跟部長說我們原住民就讀大專院校去年你看看一般生全體國民第一名大概是喜歡電機電子資訊企業等等原住民競技運動非常多 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].start |
16209.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].end |
16232.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].text |
那我現在就是要提到我們很多的退役的軍官士官他們在聊天的時候有提到因為他們有一些轉職去國高中去教柔道啊 技籍啊他們都告訴我們說其實那些從小讀體育班的這些運動員他們其實比軍人還棒他們就只差什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].start |
16236.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].end |
16240.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].text |
沒有戰技訓練但是他們各方面體能啊他們的所有的那個都比我們的一般軍人還要棒更重要的是服從性很高因為他們從小就是在球隊啊或者是體育班他們對教練的服從度非常的高所以我想先請教一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].start |
16256.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].end |
16280.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].text |
就是我們覺得不應該浪費這些運動員特別是原住民的運動員部長你是不是認同如果這些運動員原住民的體育生因為95%都會退場沒有辦法每個人都成為國手沒有辦法成為職棒明星所以如果他們能夠加入國軍成為一個優秀的集戰力部長您覺得如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].start |
16281.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].end |
16302.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].text |
我想首先第一點就是ROTC它是就招生為軍官這個部分應該是有一個法源的依據就士官的部分的話我們就沒有法源就可能要做一個法源上面的一個探討那至於有關您認為這個原住民的體育生我想我們可以來檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].start |
16304.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].end |
16331.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].text |
包委員陸軍參謀長因為先前我也在陸軍官校擔任過校長包委員連議次長我簡單的就兩個面向向您報告第一個ROTC因為他是一個四年制的學士大學教育可是在現行的士官招考他只要大專畢業所以如果把他ROTC去設計還有士官的話其實是增加了當然是提升了素質可是是增加了士官就任的一個門檻因為時間的關係我直接說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].start |
16333.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].end |
16345.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].text |
事實上我們現在入軍官專校這個所謂常備役都有運動科學的科系是那所以這方面也有相當多優秀的原住民來報考這是一個管道向您報告謝謝校長參謀長我們的原住民族教育法第24條其實在108年就有正式入法有給他法源 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].start |
16356.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].end |
16376.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].text |
就是可以呢去開設原專班在專科以上學校開設原專班那截至目前113年度呢全國已經有26校41個系所開設那我去調查了一下目前全台的二專有12所那實際上這些二專 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].start |
16377.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].end |
16401.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].text |
他就可以來開設士官的一個原專班那我覺得這個部分是不用去煩惱那至於課程設計我自己是覺得啦他如果能夠在他的課程設計裡面可能60%或70%教戰技教他一些領導的一些技能課程那甚至是利用這兩年 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].start |
16402.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].end |
16422.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].text |
去取得一些證照像急救的 初級防護救生員 汽車駕照 體能訓練員等等利用這兩年去完成這樣他們是運動員的底子我覺得他們對於我們的國軍來講那真的是太棒了更重要的是文化在地國家的認同 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].start |
16423.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].end |
16442.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].text |
非常的高然後運動的人才成為國軍的集戰力那強化他的戰力跟他的穩定的一個留任所以他未來不論是運動軍事的雙證照他退役之後的一個轉職等等我認為這個對國軍來講真的是太好了所以請教一下部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].start |
16442.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].end |
16460.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].text |
您對於這樣一個類似不要講ROTC我不是講ROTC不是大學那能不能夠來做這樣的一個教育部也能配合法規都能配合那我只是問部長您覺得我們應不應該把這一些運動員拉進到我們的國軍裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].start |
16463.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].end |
16487.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].text |
根據剛剛委員的質詢內容我們下去以後我們來檢視一下看看這樣子你剛剛提到的是原住民的相關的法規如果您同意兩週內到辦公室我們來討論可以嗎或者你們兩週內提供書面規劃報告我請他們先跟到委員那邊去做一個溝通謝謝部長 謝謝主席謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].start |
16491.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].end |
16513.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].text |
接下來請林黛華林黛華林黛華委員不在請王宏威王宏威王宏威委員不在請鄭正前鄭正前鄭正前委員不在請鍾嘉斌鍾嘉斌鍾嘉斌委員不在請賴士寶賴士寶賴士寶委員不在請林益君林益君林益君委員不在請蔡易餘蔡易餘蔡易餘委員不在請葉元之委員上台質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].start |
16527.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].end |
16530.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].text |
主席好 麻煩請部長 謝謝請郭部長是 又爾部長 請教一下現在政府有提一個依照2500億的特別預算供購案那接下來還會再提別的嗎最近還會再提別的嗎您說特別預算嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].start |
16551.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].end |
16571.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].text |
會不會因為我記得不久前才提了一個特別預算裡面還1100億也是跟國防有關嘛然後那時候裡面我的感覺啦好像是不知道是為了達到那個金額所以就灌水啊裡面有買什麼那個投影機啊買五萬塊錢的椅子啊買那個120塊錢的水啊就把它灌到1100億啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].start |
16573.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].end |
16595.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].text |
那現在又一兆兩千五百億他會不會沒多這樣 灌水獎不是 那為什麼特別預算要買投影機這是另外一個題目啦我真是好奇的因為現在大家是聚焦在一兆兩千五百億嘛那會不會通過以後沒多久又來一個幾千億或一兩兆的特別預算是有可能嗎目前沒有規劃目前沒有規劃 但是有可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].start |
16596.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].end |
16624.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].text |
沒有規劃沒有規劃就是沒有規劃沒有規劃沒有規劃在這一次的特別預算以外還要再另提不是 之後啦就國防部之後啦就現在沒有嘛那不排除嘛現在沒有沒有是不是就沒有規劃那你們一照2500億他的那個決定程序是什麼啊我非常好奇就為什麼行政院長不知道但是特定民進黨立委會先知道是他那個特定的立委跟國防部特別好還是他居中有什麼角色 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].start |
16625.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].end |
16643.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].text |
我想第一個委員如何執行這個我們並不清楚第二個就是有關行政院不是你們講的不是那這個這種事情是可以比總統先提早宣布嗎部長等一下我還沒有問你問題你剛剛有問我所以我要回答行政院的部分行政院的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].start |
16644.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].end |
16668.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].text |
行政院院長的部分我想他在回答的時候我有在場他的意思就是說明這個條例正在行政院的審議當中他本人還沒有看到這個只是我們先送條例到行政院的審議由政務委員再做一個相關部會跨部會的一個協調所以他還沒看到因為他最後還沒有審議完成現在當然已經經過審議完成之後送到院長院長也召開這個院會通過了 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].start |
16672.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].end |
16699.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].text |
我覺得這個當然是一個很大的一筆錢所以大家當然會檢驗說這個錢用的用途然後有沒有亂用還有就是有一些錢債的部分我們之前也都編了很多國防預算特別預算譬如說我問海昆號當然我不是想要問那個毛或水密門但我知道說它裡面好像有一個系統的問題先確定一個資訊我們在國防部在2019年6年前那時候花了36億 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].start |
16701.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].end |
16729.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].text |
買了一台就是大午建建構了一台大午建 對吧有這個事吧有 是那大午建它被監察院審計部糾正認為說測試的工序不符規範特別是有一個整合式的載台管理系統不符程序然後至今有74項缺失到目前為止都沒有改正有這件事情嗎報告委員有的有 是那這個大午建準備怎麼處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].start |
16730.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].end |
16752.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].text |
沒有 跟委員報告那它因為裝備的一個貨裝裝件之後它的軟體測試需要一點時間所以它當初就一個合宜的檢驗次序做了一個調整對 但是它現在系統有沒有缺失現在的測試都正常 沒有問題現在測試完全正常是好 那請問一下這個大五件的系統廠商是不是跟海昆號原型件廠商是同一家 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].start |
16755.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].end |
16775.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].text |
跟委員報這個詳細這個商情我們不在這邊透露但是它的系統跟操作運作是分開來做一個測試所以海昆號在系統的測試方面有沒有問題現在目前都已經逐步把IPMS都已經完成到我們各項各階段測試以前現在都是符合所以它的系統是完全都沒問題的 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].start |
16776.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].end |
16801.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].text |
對 現在逐步在做這個邁向它測試前的一個整備每次的這個測試我們都會做一些安全評估它現在目前是沒問題所以海昆號現在系統沒有問題是好 那另外再請教一下因為有關於海昆號之前是黃曙光 前司令在推動那後來唐華嘛 唐華現在也走了請問一下海軍現在人力上接得起來嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].start |
16802.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].end |
16829.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].text |
跟委員報告 那我想從黃志偉辭召集人之後那海軍現在就負責整個的專案管理那會配合的台船跟我們專案團隊會複起這個整個在網部督管下他有一個編組會持續按部就班來推動後續的一個這個測試跟交件的一個任務所以你們現在有信心海昆號到底什麼時候可以交件因為一直在跳票到底什麼時候可以交件 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].start |
16829.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].end |
16854.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].text |
報告委員 我們建造階段是準時的但是就是在測試的時候需要一點時間當然 沒有人這樣分的啦現在人家問交件不會管說你建造測試報告委員 還這樣說明就是說我們的建造的階段是符合他的規定沒關係 沒關係 我就問一個從這個期限嘛 之前是有訂11月底嘛那今天新月已經跳票了那下一次 總是有訂一個短期目標嘛到什麼時候我們會逐段來做什麼時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].start |
16856.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].end |
16880.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].text |
沒有 不要扯這些好不好因為我們時間有限部長 因為之前是講11月底啦那現在跳票了嘛所以現在大概新的目標是什麼時候可以交檢我們已經在說明在安全跟品質確保的前提之下我們逐步完成那現在服務行完成之後我們還就是要進行這一個潛水簽署我知道啦這個程序大家都已經都很清楚了因為海昆號大家都了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].start |
16881.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].end |
16909.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].text |
程序到底是怎麼完成哪些程序可以交接我是問時間點以前都敢講現在為什麼就不敢講了我們那個時間點11月底是依照合約的推展現在我們根據相關的測試你合約當初在訂的時候也會有一個預估測試的順利那測試進程順利部長如果說連一個目標都不敢講的話代表說你們也沒信心 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].start |
16909.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].end |
16938.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].text |
因為你之前在訂合約為什麼敢訂目標因為你們有個期程你認為說按部就班可以完成所以你會訂個11月底那現在你們感覺就沒有信心了你們也不覺得你們可以解決到可能很難解決問題所以你現在連講都不敢講沒有 我們現在認為沒有一些那請問一下明年中有可能明年中有可能交件嗎我們測試還是要逐步我當然知道我當然知道我沒有趕你我只是問一個目標值所以明年中有可能交件嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].start |
16939.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].end |
16953.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].text |
我想我們還是會持續的按階段來就像F16V一樣那時候也是說什麼時間應該給我們幾架後來一直往後延但是不管是往後延怎麼樣也是有一個短期目標現在海昆號是連短期目標都沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].start |
16954.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].end |
16968.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].text |
跟委員報告我們現在已經今天是12月1號那我們復航過了我們現在下一個階段就是要準備做潛航那當我們在達到這個潛航的這個運作跟測試之後我們才會比較精準的一個時間開跟委員報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].start |
16970.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].end |
16984.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].text |
所以潛航是什麼時候要完成潛航我們目前開始就在做潛航的前程對 大概什麼時候要完成因為這個目前還在做整個的整理跟潛航的整備那我們整備完之後你們今天回答都好空洞感覺都沒有做任何準備耶 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].start |
16985.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].end |
17010.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].text |
你明明就知道說這件事情是大家很關注的而且在11月底已經跳票那今天到立法院我相信很多人會問這個問題結果你來你都完全沒有做任何準備就一直不斷的重複那個程序但是對於期程你完全講不出來抱歉我們上禮才剛完成兩次扶航對啊那所以那你總是我們現在就在做下一個潛航的準備對下一個潛航大概什麼時候嘛然後什麼時候會交接我不覺得這個會那麼難回答欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].start |
17012.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].end |
17030.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].text |
我不覺得那麼 如果說你們是一個負責任的單位的話這有那麼難回答嗎我們就是等到這個相關的潛水潛艇規劃執行試試是牛年馬月嗎還是什麼時候 為什麼講不出來我們要按照這個測試的結果才能當然啊 那你總是要有一個目標啊否則的話就盡量拖就好了啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].start |
17031.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].end |
17043.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].text |
我們沒有會盡量拖我們當然要盡快的按照這個不是啦 我們相關的這個節點然後來盡快的來答那時間點為什麼會講不出來如果說你都按部就班的話總是有時間點啊為什麼講不出來我們還是會依照相關的你就是一直不要再跳針了啦所以現在沒有信心嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].start |
17052.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].end |
17060.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].text |
沒有信心是不是我們有信心會完成沒有信心有信心會完成但不知道是何時啦結點來逐步的來進行好不好好 謝謝好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].start |
17066.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].end |
17089.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].text |
今天已登記質詢的委員除不在場外均已發言完畢報告及詢答結束本日會議有林義軍委員林黛華委員邱志偉委員王宏威委員提出書面質詢請列入記錄並刊登公報委員書面及口頭質詢未及答覆的部分或要求補充資料者請國防部兩週內以書面答覆委員有 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].start |
17090.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].end |
17096.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].text |
約定期限者從其鎖定之前因為我們在之前質詢的時候有提到服裝供應站他由開口契約變成一個保障比例的這個部分我們有要求陸軍國防部針對這個因為陸海空軍都有 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].start |
17108.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].end |
17134.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].text |
那針對這個部分為什麼從開口契約變成比例的保證這個部分的轉折或者他的合理性我們有要求要針對合約的內容去做檢討那我們到現在都還沒有收到相關的一個書面的報告資料那由誰決定的他的合理性他除了這個以外還有其他合約內容的合理性一併在兩週內提出好不好那另外還有剛剛有 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].start |
17137.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].end |
17146.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].text |
委員有提到的時候我們就加擠的部分好像有另外跟行政院提出比如說新府人員我們就有特別幫他提出來那除了新府人員以外有沒有其他的對象是有被提出特別給行政院的 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].start |
17154.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].end |
17157.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].text |
也請一併提出提供相關的資料因為我們今天在就這個議題討論的時候我們都提到我們的敵情威脅抖聲那預算在暴增的的編列上面不管是特別預算也好或者我們的公務預算也好其實都增加我們看到所有的 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].start |
17177.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].end |
17193.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].text |
包括與會的官員其實不管是對美軍對美軍的軍購或者對廠商或者就預算的部分都有各套的說辭可是我們一直安排這樣的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].start |
17195.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].end |
17205.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].text |
議題其實主要就是他最重要的是人今天如果所有的我們的軍事官兵他們可以在加擠上面因為牽動到本份本縫他可能要牽涉的問題會比較大所以就這個加擠的部分其實他不是沒有分別而是在這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].start |
17215.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].end |
17219.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].text |
敵情陡升的情況之下你預算增加這麼多我們事實上應該對於軍人他的薪資福利是不是也應該要一併的調整他等到全部都公平以後如果認為我們的戰鬥或艱苦的或專業的可能需要再增加我們可以再予以增加我們就這個議題主要是希望國防部去考量的是這個部分我們也希望國防部就 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].start |
17243.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].end |
17265.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].text |
軍人的福利的部分是站在國防部的立場跟行政院據理力爭而不是配合行政院去做這樣子我覺得對軍人可能也會是一種傷害所以就這個部分我們還是請部長還有我們國防部可以就這個部分再去做全面性的檢討那今天的會議到此結束 謝謝 |