| IVOD_ID |
17081 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17081 |
| 日期 |
2025-12-01 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-19-13 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第13次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
13 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第13次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-12-01T08:32:17+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-12-01T12:33:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
04:00:43 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/16eb79f0bb3b77db76fe48d3caea90abe155b8c810fa5ce8b4456b5c46cbb78ce82813ffc0b09c9f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-12-01T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員、行政院經貿談判辦公室首長、外交部首長及國家安全局首長就「台美關稅協議之談判方針、進度、爭議事項、雙方可能承諾及台灣產業之影響評估」進行報告，並備質詢。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:32:17 - 12:33:00 |
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由 Amara.org 社群提供的字幕 |
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678.183 |
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MING PAO CANADA MANGA |
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1601.622 |
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1602.068 |
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由 Amara.org 社群提供的字幕 |
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1678.103 |
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好 我們現在開會 謝謝請組密報告出席人數報告委員會出席委員13人 已足法定人數好 我們現在開會進行報告事項請宣讀上次會議之錄 |
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1693.479 |
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1698.566 |
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立法院第11屆第4會期經紀委員會第12次全體委員會議事錄時間114年11月7日星期四9時3分至12時33分地點紅樓101會議室出席委員林大化等14人列席委員盧憲一等14人 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1709.261 |
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1731.055 |
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列席人員 農業部部長陳俊濟等 主席陳昭紀委員聽非報告事項 宣讀上次會議議事錄決定確定討論事項 審查依本院委員賴瑞榮等17人理據申請法部門條文修正草案討論事項 合併詢答委員吳麗華 游浩 羅廷瑋及張雅琳說明提案要旨農業部部長陳俊濟報告後 委員林大化等20人提出質詢 |
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1731.935 |
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1749.373 |
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經由農業部部長陳俊記等及其答覆登記發言委員除不在場者外 其餘均已發言完畢 詢答結束委員 邱義營 高金素梅及邱志偉所提書面質詢列入記錄 刊登公報書面質詢和未及答覆部分 請相關單位於一週內以書面答覆並複製本會委員另有要求期限者從即鎖定 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1750.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1767.856 |
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2.本院委員陳冠廷等18人 委員馬雲金等19人委員游浩等25人 委員林黛樺等16人 分別擬據《申請法》增訂第8條之1條文修正草案等事案3.本院委員蔡玉儀等17人 委員陳廷飛等16人 委員張雅琳等19人 分別擬據《申請法》部分條文修正草案等3案 |
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1768.736 |
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1778.824 |
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4.本院委員鄭天才等18人 委員楊瓊英等26人分別擬據《申請法》第2條及第15條條文修正草案等2案5.本院委員吳立華等17人擬據《申請法》第17條之2及第56條之3條文修正草案6.本院委員盧憲一等16人擬據 |
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1785.209 |
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1810.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
申請法第九條之一及第十五條條文修正草案七 本院委員黃人等二十九人擬拒申請法第十五條條文修正草案八 本院委員羅廷偉等十六人擬拒申請法第二條第十七條之二及第五十六條之三條文修正草案決議 尋答結束令定期繼續審查 散會 宣讀完畢好那我們現在繼續進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1814.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
1831.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
報告事項請宣讀邀請經濟部部長國家發展委員會主任委員行政院經貿談判辦公室首長外交部首長及國家安全局首長就台美關稅協議之談判方針進度爭議事項雙方可能承諾及台灣產業之影響評估進行報告並被質詢宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
1833.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
1861.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
好 我們現在原就歷我們現在來介紹列席的機關首長經濟部部長龔明欣部長 謝謝接下來我們國家發展委員會葉主任委員 謝謝接下來行政院國家發展基金管理會副執行秘書葉副執行秘書 謝謝外交部次長陳次長 謝謝接下來國家安全局我們副局長陳副局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
1863.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
1870.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
謝謝 接下來我們行政院經貿談判辦公室我們的總談判代表楊真理女士 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
1874.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
1902.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
好 我們今天的議程排定台美關稅協議之談判方針進度正義事項雙方可能承諾及台灣產業之影響評估進行報告並備質詢我首先來請經濟部龔明欣部長做報告主席各位委員大家好 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
1903.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
1930.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
今天陈文贵委员会邀请就台美关税协议的谈判方针进度正义事项双方可能承诺以及台湾产业的影响评估进行报告那进行各位委员不吝指教美国对等关税新的会理已经在8月7号暂时性的实施那我国对等关税呢是由32叠加MFN的占为暂时性的20%的叠加MFN |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
1933.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
1953.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
目前台美谈判已经到最后阶段谈判团队一直积极地跟美国磋商针对关税部分我方判调降对等关税税率而且不叠加原税率以及争取232条款的关税优惠待遇台美产业具有高度的互补性 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
1954.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
1977.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
台湾厂商在美国供应链中也扮演着关心性的角色许多美商也持续地加码布局跟投资台湾我方主张立足台湾布局全球的总体战略目标之下以台湾模式跟美国厂商供应链的合作我方所提出的台湾模式是由企业基于国际布局 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
1978.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
1992.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
自主规划到美国投资贴近市场并且结合客户延伸产业的实力向美方争取有利的投资的条件跟环境也协助相关的产业在美国来做一些布局 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
1994.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2014.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
那透过跟美方的持续的谈判跟磋商呢台湾的适用关税对等项率已经原来由32条件为现在暂时性的20%的税率那为了因应美国关税措施对产业带来的影响因应国际形势强化经济社会以及民生 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2015.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2033.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
国安的任性特别条例已经在10月17号经立法院的三读通过那经济部也编列了460亿的预算来支持产业四大的措施包括了外销贷款优惠保证加码中小为企业的多元发展的贷款加码 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2034.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2052.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
研发转型的补助争取海外的订单来协助产业解决资金周转困难也提升技术能量并强化海外的市场的布局并且从8月7号已经开始全面受理厂商的申请 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2054.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2081.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
那为了协助企业一次性的了解所有可能的资源呢经济部也整合了财政部跟劳动部在11月到12月之间在高雄台中台北宜兰台南等等五场五个场是进行说明会也超过了30场式的实体跟线上的这个座谈会那持续透过各种管道持续的关怀我们厂商那也持续的跟各工协会 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2081.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2110.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
合作来推广说明那协助有需要的厂商提出来做一些申请那目前我方仍在跟美国进行说商后续一旦台美达成最后的协议经济部将尽快的提出产业的影响评估以上报告敬请各位委员指教好谢谢部长的报告我们接下来请国防会主委约进选主委来请做报告 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2112.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2137.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
主席各位委員 先進 大家好今天同盟貴委員會邀請本會列席就台美關稅協議之談判方針進度正義事項還有雙方可能承諾及台灣產業之影響評估進行報告本會緊究業管部分提出說明如下敬請各位委員不定指教美國川普總統在今年7月31號簽署行政命令對全球 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2139.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2168.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
貿易夥伴啟動輕易輪關稅調整經過台美雙方數月持續磋商談判目前台灣適用的對等關稅稅率由4月2號美方宣布的最惠國待遇加32%調降為加20%但僅為暫時性的一個關稅措施那我方持續爭取調降對等關稅且不疊加以及232條款中多項關稅最惠國待遇 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2169.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2195.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
同时为我方赴美投资企业争取更有利的投资环境根据智库评估今年1月到10月我国对美出口前30大工业产品属于对等关税豁免清单的出口额约1156亿美元占对美出口总额约76.2%大部分是半导体伺服器等主力出口产品受到美国 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2197.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2214.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
20%暫時性對等關稅影響較小目前盤點受影響較大的主要為工具機 機械 汽車零組件等這些最主要是因為日韓 歐美等競爭對手國的稅率享有15%較優惠的關稅經濟部以及相關部會持續進行產業關懷訪視 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2219.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2241.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
並提出跨部會支持措施協助受衝擊的產業為了協助產業因應國際經貿變局政府將落實執行因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及民生國安任性特別預算以支持產業安定就業照顧民生強化任性四大主軸11項措施協助產業 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2243.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2259.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
以維持產業競爭力並透過擴大內需方式穩定台灣經濟發展動力那此外為因應國際經貿環境變化及科技發展需求政府將以國力新十大動能以及AI新十大建設雙進制塔計畫為主籌強化我國在國際變局中的競爭力與韌性 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2265.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2288.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
最後美國關稅新政對全球經貿成長及供應鏈佈局產生深遠影響政府將持續密切關注美國經貿政策與相關談判進展落實推動支持產業與安定就業相關措施並與民間攜手合作透過促進產業創新升級多元全球佈局發展內需等方式確保台灣經濟與產業在 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2290.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2308.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
全球经贸禁局中持续稳健发展强化韧性与竞争力以上报告敬请指教谢谢好谢谢谢谢主委的报告接下来我们请外交我们请这个行政院经贸谈判办公室总谈判人杨珍妮女士谢谢 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2312.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2331.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
主席 各位委員 大家早今天承蒙衛委員會邀請本辦公室就台美關稅協議之談判方針進度爭議事項雙方可能承諾及台灣產業之影響評估進行報告敬請各位委員不吝指教 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2332.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2354.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
有关台美这次的谈判是在川普总统上任后推动美国优先贸易及投资政策4月1号公布对等关税以及跟各国展开谈判台湾经济高度仰赖外贸且台美逆差结构特殊高达九成来自半导体 自动性 产品 电子产业 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2355.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2366.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
涉及美方正進行的232國家安全調查條款調查使得我國對美關稅的談判必須就對等關稅及232調查產業供應鏈多項關稅一併磋商 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2372.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2395.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
剛剛拱部長及國發會主委已經說明了我們從8月7號美國給我們既有的稅率及20%的暫時性稅率之後我方持續跟美方洽談供應鏈的合作並爭取調降對等關稅且不疊加原有的MFN稅率以及232關稅最優惠的待遇 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2396.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2418.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
美方是追求農業工業產品出口公平互惠貿易的環境實現再公正化我國追求經濟安全供應鏈的韌性與永續的繁榮台美雙方可透過談判促進貿易平衡建立互惠互利的經貿體系更進一步發展台美高科技 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2419.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2449.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
技术伙伴的关系那我方谈判团队我想大家都了解之期是由行政院政府院长接同经贸谈判办公室经济部 农业部 卫护部财政部以及国家安全委员会等以美国贸易代表署以及美国商务部就贸易平衡供应链的合作进行多次磋商历经经过五轮的实体以及数十次的线上磋商取得进展 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2450.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2460.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
除了現在進行文件的交換之外現階段主要談判的重點是以台灣模式與美方洽談供應鏈的合作 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2461.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2488.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
我在這邊再提醒一次是因為我們在第一次實體收商的時候我方已向美方說明我國有國會的保留權條款未來完整協議文件文本將以國會將以我國的條約締結法送交國會審議一旦以美方達成協議行政院團隊將立即向國會及社會完整說明協議內容一併提交 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2489.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2509.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
影響評估並將協議文本送交國會審議那有關對等談判的方面我方談判團隊一向秉持國家產業利益維護國民健康糧食安全為核心原則以美方溝通關稅非關稅障礙經濟安全貿易變節化以商業機會 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2511.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2526 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
目前來我們在對等談判已經在技術性大抵定現在做文件的交換但是在232談判我們目前是以台灣模式與美方進行這個供應鏈的合作 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2526.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2547.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
所谓的台湾模式有分两点向大家说明许多台湾高科技产业已是国际级的企业对美投资是台湾供应链的延伸我国业者为争取AI商机也已展开对美布局在这个趋势之下我方期盼以台湾制造的优势 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2548.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2569.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
结合美国研发创新人才及市场的共同发展台美高科技战略伙伴关系因此我国依循跟流台湾布局全球总体战略目标根据产业的优势经济发展的需要提出台湾模式对美投资方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2569.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2581.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
一 产业投资由企业基于国际的布局自主规划第二 我政府透过信用保证机制支持金融机构协助企业赴美投资 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2583.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2611.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
第三透過政府的合作彼此政府的合作降低我企業赴美投資的成本跟風險建立產業園區包括向美爭取有利的投資環境包括土地水電法規環境等當然最重要我們也向美方表示我國業者赴美投資避免雙重課稅協定希望美方國會早日通過以利我們跟美方協商及其爭取 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2612.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2623.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
最后我们表示我们深信在行政院的林院长跟副院长的带领之下我国谈判团队持续维护国家的利益守护产业的利益 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2624.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2651.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
守護國民的健康糧食安全的核心原則與美方進行說商期盼不久的將來就供應鏈的合作跟美方達成共識將爭取對等稅率且不疊加MFN稅率的最優惠及232條款最優惠待遇為我國打造公平有利的競爭環境爭取我國最大的利益以上報告進行主席各位委員指教謝謝好 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2658.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2679.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
謝謝楊總代表 謝謝接下來我們請問剛剛所宣讀的議事錄請問有沒有問題沒有 我們議事錄確認現場有我們的陳庭輝委員 林大華委員還有徐宇貞委員 還有邱益穎委員在現場 謝謝接下來本次的會議各部會所 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2680.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2707.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
提的这个书面报告请各位委员自行参阅并刊登公报现在我们要进行询答在询答前我们依照就例做以下的一个宣告每位委员发言的时间五分钟本委文会必要时再增加两分钟那非本委会的呢四分钟那上午十点半截止登记首先我们请第一位登记第一位的陈廷飞委员请发言 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2713.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2718.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
謝謝主席 我們請經濟部部長我們請經濟部工部長蔣委員長 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2726.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2748.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
部長早因為大家現在已經進入到最後的一個階段我們已經談了很久那目前基本上在做一些文書的交換那我們當然希望說可以趕快定案可是現在說真的定不定案是在於美方到底他 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2749.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2778.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
要怎麼樣去訂定這樣的一個方向那我們一直強調說我們希望用台灣模式台灣模式這四個字很重要喔台灣模式好我們既然已經進入到文書交換的階段那麼這個部分到底什麼叫台灣模式報告委員台灣模式就是說因為我們廠商啊他 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2779.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2808.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
立足台湾以后他开始要布局全球那布局全球呢他们有他们的自主性的一些思考那如果在美国当地有订单那他评估起来又有可能去满足客户又有可能赚钱的情况之下那我们政府怎么样协助跟美方政府共同来协助他可以顺利的落地然后产生这个经济上的效应这个就是我们双方来讲的模式就好像 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2808.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2827.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
我們現在園區最大的優勢有兩項一個就是這個園區裡面一站式的服務所有的都可以幫忙行政上協調都可以那這個當然要雙邊的行政單位共同來討論怎麼樣讓這個可以達成這樣一站式的服務出來另外一個是產業的聚落的形成 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2827.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2843.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
那我们就协助很多的厂商他们如果有需要产生这个群聚的效应或是供应链的合作关系那这个供应链也不一定是在当地也有可能跟台湾形成供应链的关系良性的循环那我们希望达到这样的一个效果 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2843.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
2858.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
所以你們已經把台灣產業把它很多樣態做一個方向跟美國去討論的這樣的方向雙向溝通的一個指標嗎對對對所以這就是台灣模式對對對 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
2859.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
2888.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
所以表示我们已经把台湾所有产业的样态有可能受到冲击的有可能变成是双向合作的或是第三个一站式的所谓服务平台甚至是我们可以把目前他们的需求度跟他们有受到冲击的部分跟美方做一个对谈的方向是这个样子吗你们已经都盘点出来的吗 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
2889.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
2910.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
所以比较不像日本跟韩国,因为日本跟韩国他们是拿一笔钱出来给美方他们去做投资,那产生的效益以后大家来均分,我们不是这样,我们是厂商他自主性有这样的一个客户上的一些需有,而产生这样的一个形式,所以跟要先拿出一笔钱出来是不太一样的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
2910.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
2925.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
所以我們是以產業端來做一個平衡導向甚至是對談的一個策略對不對好 那請問那現在我們一直在強調說要去爭取調降對等關稅的這個部分在我們雙方的討論你認為有信心嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
2935.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
2949.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
杨总在这边我们有信心有信心吗可以往下再来我们争取不叠加依照原MFN最惠国待遇的税率这个有信心吗 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
2950.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
2977.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
对我们也有信心也有信心吗好我们来争取232条款多项关税优惠有信心吗是是这个都是我们努力的目标我看到我们总裁在点头了有信心了但你点的太小太小了媒体没看到了好来那我们是不是也应该就像刚刚部长所说的我们的台湾模式就是要让我们的企业 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
2977.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3004.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
要赴美的企业争取更有利的投资环境跟条件是的有信心吗这个就是我们所谓的台湾模式对透过我们的行政单位跟对方的行政单位相互的沟通让这个投资环境更有优化让我们的厂商他的期待去联名可以贴近客户以后而且甚至也可以赚到钱然后这些钱也可以回馈到台湾来以后然后持续的研发往前走 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3005.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3025.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
所以這段時間其實我們在努力的就是這個區塊我們要有別於其他國家我們要用一個所謂的台灣模式因為現在全國都在看這一次談判的最後狀況跟結論所以我們一直都很低調因為畢竟 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3027.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3049.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
在谈论的当中在沟通的当中我们不能自己去做任何所谓资讯的揭露我们都还要尊重在还没有确定到最后一个阶段的时候我们所讲的最后一里路的部分我们不能擅自去公布我们自己所谈的内容 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3050.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3071.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
這就是我們現在其實最為難的地方了對不對我們必須要有成熟了然後美方有同意了我們才能慢慢的去丟出這個風向所以我相信最近已經有所謂的台灣模式應該剛剛不論是部長或是總裁頭都點得很大 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3072.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3088.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
表示我们应该是已经有信心了才会提出台湾模式这个方向对不对好 我们总裁是不是来我们的这个备询台下对 因为这样子好 我们请媒体看的会比较清楚总裁代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3090.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3116.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
對 謝謝然後不好意思就是說在這個部分我們的台灣模式應該是有信心吧包括我剛說的爭取條件對等關稅爭取不疊加原最惠國待遇稅率爭取232條款多項關稅優惠然後如何讓我們要富美的企業爭取更有利的投資環境與條件所以非常有信心台灣模式 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3117.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3135.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
报告委员我们相信在副院长的带领这些团队之下我们一定会争取你刚刚所调的目标我们有信心有信心了所以为什么最近大家都在讨论我们卓院长所说的台湾模式就是大概已经有一个框架了 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3135.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3164.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
在最後等待文書的確認因為文書沒有確認說真的我們只能透露一點點但是看到我們部長跟總裁頭點得蠻大的我相信我們非常有信心我們一起加油謝謝你們辛苦了我們談判團隊辛苦了謝謝好 謝謝接下來我們請林黛華委員請做巡檔 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3175.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3178.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
有請部長跟總談判代表好 我們請兩位 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3185.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3213.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
好 那部長您包括總談判代表你們認為說這個台灣模式把台灣的類工業區或類科學園區這個隨著台積電過去我們來見識這個會對台灣有什麼衝擊呢我講的是衝擊兩個字你剛才講的是優點那這個可能的缺點或可能的衝擊是什麼呢有沒有部長和總談判代表分別回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3215.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3240.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
大家有些会担心说这样会不会排挤到国内投资实际上是不会因为我们听到台积电它的一些未来对台湾跟美国的布局基本上是不会产生有排挤的效果而且它持续的会加码投资台湾最先进的技术也会留在台湾好 来 总谈判代表来 您的意见 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3242.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3264.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
委員我們這次的模式還是以更有台灣然後佈局全球所以我想在過程中我們有尋往中小企業的一些意見因為他們也是想把他們的企業跟他們的那你覺得中小企業如果過去的話他會需要政府什麼支持那對台灣又有什麼影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3264.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3279.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
他希望的政府支持是說比如在土地 水電還有行政的一些措施尤其是法規方面希望政府能夠提供協助所以才會說剛剛這會不會變成中小企業本身技術跟資金的外移呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3280.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3307.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
我想應該不是外流 是把他想要接近客戶去做好 那我來 本席來跟您做一些討論第一個 在川普政府美國製造的目標下亞洲各國的產業如半導體 AI伺服器 電動車等無人機為了規避累加稅率而赴美投資這些產業背後的生態劇包括石化 設備 產物 被動源泉 金屬加工像塑膠等 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3309.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3327.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
是否會外移社長的趨勢衝擊我國目前的產業值得我國深思第二個根據中經院在對於今年2024年台灣對美投資的金額已經創歷年新高而且是從前年2023年2024年連續兩年美國是超越中國成為台灣最大的投資地 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3334.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3362.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
赴美工作的人数已经有13.7万这样的趋势是否会造成本土竞争力的挑战所以当然本席也会支持你们积极的谈判降低对等关税争取不叠加最惠国待遇的税率但是媒体报道台湾将投资美国4000亿而且以台湾模式设置类科学园区所以我也请你们一定要思考如何确保中小企业不是技术跟资金的外溢 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3363.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3385.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
而是開拓新市場好本席提出過往的失敗的經驗類科學園區不能重演台商附中的潛力有提出三點第一個產業外移是我國產業的痛過去從台商外移中國東南亞造成技術人才的雙重空洞化好在蔡英文總統時期以及2019年推出了 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3386.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3412.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
投資台灣三大方案吸引台商回流 資金回流2.5兆元創造了8萬個就業機會我們這麼努力從蔡英文執政8年當中再加上2019年這樣才造才回流2.5兆而且才造才創造8萬個工作機會所以增加投資決定就業的成長好你們宣稱 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3416.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3435.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
這個台美關稅談判與其他國家不同 包括台積電在內的投資台灣模式是由政府 我這些都照念喔 你的簡報由政府為赴美台商投資融資信用保證 讓中小企業可以跟著供應鏈到美國海外設廠 並由美國在類工業區內提供護照 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3438.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3454.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
水電等行政變節這樣的模式是否會掏空人才現在的如果我按照爆派的說法爆派提供護照過往我在這邊工作兩年我希望美國提供這個拘留證 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3455.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3474.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
長期居留證現在我們是加碼希望不只要提供居留證而是要提供居住證直接成為可以成為美國公民了這個會不會掏空人才了而我剛才已經提出個數據了目前我們跟著在這個連著2023、2024年現在赴美投資的有13.7萬人了 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3479.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3501.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
好這樣的提供附照是不是又加快了我們掏空人才呢我並沒有反對我講的是一個衝擊面的因應再來本席呼籲類科學園區不能重演台商附中的潛力將製造及多數就業機會帶到國外留下這就是過往的做法留下少數母公司的職缺在北部跟中部 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3502.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3525.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
而中部政府必須協助企業維持在本國的產線輔導本國的中小企業進入先進產業的供應鏈這是本席的主張所以只有台灣持續製造跟研發海外設廠才會有源源不絕的供應鏈也就是你要建立起非紅供應鏈也就是要建立起民主的供應鏈的價值 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3526.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3555.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
如果你沒有在這個台積電赴美國或者是日本或者是德國當中你沒有建立起國內相關半導體設備化的國產化的積極的導入的時候那不好意思只好我們的資金人才等同過去台商投資中國跟東南亞的這樣技術人才的雙重空洞化在你的簡報當中我並沒有看到這樣的一個因應之道 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3556.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3559.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
好所以推動半導體供應鏈國產化部長您認為這個議題可行嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3564.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3590.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
现在进行当中进行当中来说看看吧就是我们现在当然整个半导体前端的这个设备是因为ASMO他们是门槛是比较高一点但是我们先从后端的这个封装设备开始进行那现在已经表现非常好先进封装现在大概都可以国产化了所以将来在西光子往前推的话这个供应链的国产化也可以形成 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3591.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3612.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
你講得還蠻抽象的 等一下我會具體要求你如何以高雄的3奈米的一個台積電的基地去組建起我這個半導體的國產化就以高雄為基地 你看要怎麼做 本期有具體的建議 希望以專案的方式就能夠落實你剛才講的 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3613.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3632.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
好 半導體跟人工智慧產業是台灣經濟成長的主要動能所以這些動能隨著全球的佈局分別到美國 日本 德國所以台積電赴美投資1650億電子業如台達電 偉創 鴻海 英達 英業達給各自投入上億元在美國的投資去年的總額到141億 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3635.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3660.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
億的美元如果其他的產線跟供應鏈現在是電子業跟著去喔我們有好多相關的這個相關的這個金屬加工包括我們的這些石化的複材也都可能跟著去喔如果他的類工業區的這個人才的優惠這麼好你工作兩年就可以拿到永久居住證的話哇那我想不是只有13.7萬人會過去而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3663.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3690.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
所以在這邊本席憂慮的不是只有人才包括我們本國今年預估要達到GDP的成長率是達到7.37%本席都相當的憂慮所以主張維持本土製造業的量能必須做到三件事情第一個就針對半導體設備的中小企業相關的傳統產業透過共同研發或者取得國際認證 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3692.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3708.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
這個是我們這個傳統產業在相關的設備業當中我們的高門檻因為現在還是都是這些半導體業他還是跟德國美國跟日本歐美國家採買嘛他不買台灣的嘛那你希望組建台灣的這樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3709.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3735.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
一個相關設備的國產化你一定要除了導入研發還要取得國際認證進入半導體的供應鏈第二個 鼓勵外資在台灣使用台灣四兆的設備零組件跟耗材第三個 加強半導體產業與化工 模具 機械 電子等技質體系進行產學合作讓人才不一定一風光的景氣半導體產業也能在船廠扮演不可取代的角色 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3736.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3765.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
好在這邊我再要點醒這個半導體設備國產化我們有沒有利基也必須一定要做或者你的類工業區分析再次的提醒你只會再次的變成投資台商進入東南亞台商進入中國的技術跟人才的掏空好半導體產業不只是只有矽金源一片金源需要至少300個工序背後的設備跟零件 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3766.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3787.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
就都是大量傳統產業的資源比如說我舉一個案例日本的花王他將洗去髒汙的而且不傷害肌膚的技術用於清洗晶圓所以傳統產業長年累積的經驗只要經過半導體產業的合作就能成為改善良率的工程 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3788.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3807.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
第二個以高雄為例以台積電有先進的2奈米製程也有日月光的先進封裝過往相關的零組件化學材料都是跟日本德國買而高雄當然也有金屬加工化工等重要的產業整個石化產業幾乎我們就有 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3809.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3832.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
這個台中油中油就有兩個兩大石化專區在這邊包括民間的我們的大社工業區總共加起來民營跟中油就有三個石化產業那所以呢因此政府應該協助更多有意願美門路的傳統產業跨過資新技術的雙重門檻進入高價值值的半導體產業面 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3833.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3842.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
好 我們當然最後也期待我們的政府能夠提出 談出更好的條件讓螺絲扣件跟半導體可以避免232條款的課稅範圍但是本席非常的憂慮如果你沒有起見半導體產業的國產化你只會讓我傳統產業可能有滅亡的困境 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3855.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
3875.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
其實現在是不可說的公開秘密整個這個構建業金屬加工業跟石化業其實在高雄都已經在放無薪假了所以但是呢如果說你沒有再正式這樣你們再一直喊這個所謂的類科學園區本席不反對你只要把相關國內的基礎產業做好 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
3879.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
3893.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
那這個也不是一天兩天的事必須從現在就開始本行沒有意見因為他真的是擴張他真的是在國際佈局擴張海外市場所以針對這些傳統產業只有貿易條件改善還不足還要投入資金輔導煤核傳產儘速進入半導體產業供應也讓未來的傳產以台灣為基地 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
3899.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
3914.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
他不只服務到美國去投資台積電而可以呢也可以賣給世界各國的半導體產業建立起台灣製造業的不可取代性這邊具體要求經濟部國發會經濟部以專案的方式加速輔導國內傳統產業導入半導體製程或設備供應鏈 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
3919.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
3928.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
那這個方案當然是希望傳統產業能夠增加技術的升級部長這邊我要很明確的講其實你的半導體產業的這個設備國產化我希望你 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
3931.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
3953.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
真的認真的評估很仔細的評估能夠以專案方式來跟本院報告第二個國發會呢推動信賴產業你的信賴產業我也在這邊具體要求因為台美的你們的這個所談出的條件你的信賴產業就是目前正在做重點放在半導體的後端製程的國產化 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
3954.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
3974.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
切割貼合封裝測試等設備這都可以規劃國內的供應鏈增加自製零組件耗材材料設備的國產化比例讓傳統產業也成為半導體產業的隱形冠軍再來以國科會請你也以專案的方式提出報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
3975.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
3993.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
以高雄的3奈米量產基地為核心運用你的國發淨金運用你的大南方新矽谷的計畫的這個方案的錢跟政策導向投資半導體設備國產供應鏈提供我國工業區園區的需求以輔導傳統產業進入半導體產業兩個部會這個國發會跟那個好那我們請單位就針對委員所提的這是非常重要請會後也跟委員詳細說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4006.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4015.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
那是不是請主席協助裁示一下這個是給他們一個時間那您那個部長跟因為我們時間你要三個月嗎來部長您說吧兩個月兩個月好謝謝以上好接下來我們請邱議員委員請做詢答 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4038.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4058.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
謝謝主席我請一下部長我們再請工部長部長早部長請教一下現在的談判進度如何應該是說大致上你們下一次什麼時候會再過去 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4059.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4063.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
好像兩邊還在談時間那您現在可以對外公布的兩邊現在磋商的氣氛跟進度是怎麼樣還是這個是要請這個臺灣代表來說明氣氛應該不錯吧好我們請 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4082.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4104.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
謝謝委員我想美方從我們4月開始跟他談判的時候都非常的肯定我方的務實積極的態度所以談判的氣氛是正向的發展所以現在談判的氣氛是正向的發展那您覺得國內在對於我們談判的這個研判上面是不是也是正向的肯定正向的發展呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4107.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4121.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
我想我們從當初的4月1號開始32降到暫時的稅率20的部分我想國內的企業是肯定但是國人希望我們再加速談判能夠把20往下調漲且不疊加 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4122.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4140.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
製造一個穩定的環境這是我們努力的方向好 那我要進一步請教如果20不疊加能夠再往下調降這當然是我們最期待的方式我們看到臨近的包括像日本他們承諾日本政府承諾要有5500億的美元投資 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4141.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4168.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
以期換到他們的關稅能夠降到15%南韓承諾有3500億的美元投資也期待他們的關稅能夠降到15%那我們現在的暫時性關稅是20%對外有媒體預估政府大概會希望能夠有這個民間企業或者是我不知道是民間企業去投資有400億美元去投資美國 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4169.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4190.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
那當然在這個過程裡頭其實就有引來了很多在野黨的批評他們說這個政府拍板了12兆台幣的財政支出然後他說我們政府是善財同子如果要這個12兆去投資美國每一個人可以領50萬這是黑箱作業這是賣國作業我請教您怎麼看 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4194.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4210.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
你認同這個說法嗎報告委員我不認同這個說法因為這一個4千億應該是揣測的而且首先我們也沒有互相作業因為任何一個談判的細節沒到定案我們沒有辦法對外說明所以金額尚未議定 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4212.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4241.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
4000億是揣測所以那您認為未來所以這個也不是政府去投資嘛這個應該是企業去投資嘛是不是來 部長您對著麥克風講這樣才能夠有記錄啊您的搖頭點頭記錄不到這個不為所謂的12兆什麼財政支出沒有這個東西啊因為我們剛才提到台灣模式就是台灣的企業自主性的他要貼近客戶有了訂單然後也確定可以賺錢那政府就是幫忙兩邊的政府幫忙把這個事情促成 完成 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4242.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4256.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
提供很好的投資環境跟條件出來那這個是我們的我們不是像美國不是像日本跟韓國就有一筆錢拿去那邊做財政投資不是這樣的所以這個我覺得還是要對外說明清楚當然會有 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4258.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4285.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
有人會惡意炒作就說這個是我們政府的財政支出去投資4000億美元實際上並不是這樣這個大概都是企業自主的投資但是相對的我們希望企業去投資美國的同時經濟部對於國內的這些產業的保護措施也要同步的進行我知道你們現在有在進行中但是這個進行的幅度跟進行的廣度 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4286.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4314.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
是不是能夠適時的讓我們的傳產或者是在國內的企業能夠非常清楚的了解政府對他們的照顧我想我們一方面要保護我們的傳產保護我們台灣的產業一方面我們又希望能夠把關稅降到大家可以負擔可以接受的範圍之內其實政府非常的辛苦但是我要提醒一點任何的談判都不應該在談判之前你就先出底牌 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4314.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4341.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
你同意我的看法嗎所以這個談判的底牌會是怎麼樣除了多方磋商以外我認為經濟部跟我們談判辦公室應該是要確實掌控甚至要以台灣優先不是只有台灣模式而是要以台灣優先來保護台灣的產業這個會是我們的第一要務這個我也要請經濟部能夠確實的注意那第二點 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4343.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4360.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
談判辦可以先回部長我還要請教一個比較時事的問題最近我們有非常多的討論關於有一個叫做瑞幸咖啡這個是在中國成立的一個咖啡大型連鎖店他即將來台灣插旗台灣的市場 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4362.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4383.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
聽說首家的門市就會落腳在台北市的南京復興商圈那他的徵才廣告也已經開始了那我看部長您這幾天對外的發言都說這個是一個代理商他是 他不是中資因為他 我們沒有接貨這個瑞信他來申請我們國內投資的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4384.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4412.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
這個申請案是沒有的所以他是用代理的方式透過代理商的方式然後在台灣插旗台灣的市場準備在台灣的落腳但是如果這個我覺得經濟部您還是要去持續的觀察過去我們一直講中資中資轉新加坡資轉港資現在換一條路他直接找台灣的公司直接代理 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4413.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4431.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
那代理是一個問題這個是你們要去觀察我現在要談的是資安的風險他在美國這家這個瑞幸咖啡在美國要求他們的所有的點餐一定要下載他的APP那這個APP跟我們一般在餐廳的這個掃QR Code的點餐不太一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4432.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4460.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
這個APP還會收集他的個人資料聯絡方式 定位 交易記錄 電子郵件跟簡訊甚至他的網頁瀏覽記錄等等的敏感資訊都會透過這個APP去收集這個已經遠超過一個點咖啡 買咖啡 買一杯咖啡所需要得到的資訊了這個我想要請經濟部是不是能夠密切掌握這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4461.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4475.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
或者你們現在有沒有掌握會 如果這個代理商他是屬於本國的企業他雖然代理了國外的但是我們會要求他要完全要符合我們國內的個資法相關規定我們也要求他所有的個資必須要留在台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4476.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4502.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
你要求他的個資留在台灣但是他如果掃這個app download這個app很多資訊就直接回傳回去了啊你怎麼要求他留在台灣這個是我要求你們要去實際的調查了解掌握會會會你要求他留在台灣但是這個東西透過雲端就回去了啊你要求他也沒用啊我們會了解他的這個個資相關怎麼蒐集怎麼運用好包括他是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4503.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4520.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
跟在美國一樣強制要Download他的App才能去點餐而他的這個App的設計裡面是不是有我剛剛提到的這一些東西這個我是不是也能夠請經濟部或者是你們跟行政院的資安辦能夠充分的密切去掌握這件事情可以可以好嗎好 謝謝謝謝接下來我們請呂玉玲委員請做詢答 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4537.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4541.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
謝謝主席 請工部長還有談判總代表 楊總代表好 我們請兩位 謝謝綠園總是 部長 總代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4551.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4578.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
这个美国的对等关税它现在不仅是我们又关我们国我国的这个出口产业生存的空间而且关乎于我们整个台美经贸关系的这个稳定性那如何让我们的产业不会被这个不合理的关税所伤害到现在还在磋商现在暂行的那个税率是20%对不对那现在的话我们看到在这20%的话我们希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4579.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4599.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
能夠在關稅上可以談到可以往20%來往下降最好是跟日韓一樣都是15%那也不要再疊加那剛剛兩位都提到說很有信心可以談成那請問一下到底這個對等關稅什麼時候會談成可能在今年年底會談好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4602.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4627.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
报告委员时间有急迫性但是要谈一个好的对国人有利的方向你一直不谈的话他还是在20%所以我们的竞争力就被影响了不是我们在谈判这个过程中一定要争取要调降对等调降而且不叠加所以赶快谈你们有信心会调降那就赶快把它谈成这期限还是不知道一直谈下去 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4627.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4638.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
我们也不可能不会我们会努力的尽量的努力还有时间表但是也要是为我国人争取最好所以你们谈不成的话就一直还是28 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4640.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4661.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
我想这是我们努力的目标一定要调教所以努力再加油好不好那因为现在这个外媒的报道里面有说台湾投资美国的这个4000亿这个美金那你们有来出来辟谣说这只是揣测而已那还请问你们在谈当中会低于4000亿吗美金 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4664.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4671.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
報告委員 我想任何的談判的細節我們還是不會在你們說都有信心那這比4000億美金低有信心嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4673.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4701.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
我想我们会努力的朝我们要降低不是这个金额的数字去努力还是有信心好那谈到这边的话特别要提到说因为讲到日韩那日本跟韩国的话他们的投资一个是日本是5500亿美金韩国是3500亿美金但是占有他们国家的GDP这比例的话日本是占GDP大概是14%那个韩国是占有20% |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4702.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4714.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
如果台灣是4千億美金的話佔我們台灣的4千億佔我們的GDP的話是50%一半這是我們國家的整個財政環境能夠承受的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4716.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4733.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
我還是跟委員報告一下所以你都要預估進去啊我們的條件是台灣模式一定依照我們經濟發展產業的結構跟業者的需求來做談判所以我們不將日本跟韓國他們模式不一樣我們不做比較 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4735.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4761.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
總代表你一直在講台灣模式台灣模式的話並不是說我們把它的科學園區不是說只是劃一塊地給它那整個我們的基礎建設跟我們的整個行政制度跟人才還有學術整個都會帶過去的是不是所以你有沒有考慮到如果說我們在協助美國在訓練它美國的勞工我們的關鍵技術會不會有外流的這個缺口 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4762.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4772.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
還有就是說我們整個這個環境跟我們勞工這個我們半導體是不可取代的這個地位會不會就會喪失掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4774.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4788.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
包委員不會因為最先進的技術還是會在台灣你一直講最先進的技術沒錯但是我們在訓練美國的勞工的時候這個技術這整個工業的技術就會有這個缺口有這個危險性這個風險會產生的它是一個operator的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4793.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4805.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
技能啦它不是研發單位啦所以這個還要防範這個風險好不好這是我們國人所擔心的期待你們這個缺口不要發生那至於我們談到這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4810.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4838.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
在四月份的時候我們談到四月份在整個台灣這個貿易這個逆差這個環境裡面我們有談到總代表你可以先回去那因為我們看到四月份這個賴清德總統在特別因應這個美國對等關稅有談到說我們要針對農業工業這個能源部分的話跟美國減低這美國的貿易這個逆差要跟這個阿拉斯加這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
4841.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
4843.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
購買這個液化的這個天然氣喔我們也簽訂了這個這個特別的簽訂 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
4847.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
4873.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
這個意向書都簽訂下去了但是這個有個重要的關鍵問題就是阿拉斯加這個我們雖然簽訂了這個意向書但是它這個距離我們有1300公里這個距離本來是日韓跟我們台灣要一起的但是我們看到日本跟韓國非常的保留這個態度而我們卻要積極去爭取這個整個管線的這個工程是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
4874.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
4888.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
我們為什麼會把這個意向書這管線的地方我們沒有一個平衡的一個爭取報告委員因為當初已經簽了意向書表達是1月這意向書包括這管線嗎對 表達是1月他是附帶條件嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
4889.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
4909.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
那因為阿斯嘉事實上距離台灣啊算相對來講如果以天然氣來講的話還算相對近的它只有7天1300公里7天的航程如果是船運的話那當然主要還是以船運為主啦對如果這個管線的話你們去爭取這個工程的話這個費用是誰出 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
4911.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
4935.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
管線的話 它那個管線不是講說要拉到台灣來拉到整個亞洲嘛但是我們有去爭取嘛我們非常積極去爭取但是日本跟韓國都保留啊那如果說日本跟韓國不去爭取不去投資它的話那這樣子的話等於是我們台灣一個國家在爭取一個國家在投資建到港口啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
4936.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
4962.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
管线是从他的产地到港口不是要拉到台湾来主干线1300公里拉过来了那你要拉到日本韩国再支线再拉过去这是一定的嘛那我说我们现在在管理这个管线的时候是怎么样子争取的都是船运啦他拉到港口就是阿拉斯加的港口以后然后再船运到那这1300公里是怎么对对对现在的规划是这个样子他这个距离就1300公里 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
4963.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
4973.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
那主要就是要船運過來啊是啊 還是船運啊但是這個主幹線1300公里本來是日本 韓國跟我們嘛董事長 您說 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
4976.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5002.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
這個管線我說明一下它是從那個阿拉斯加州的北邊最北邊那邊拉一條800英里的管線到南邊來我這個都知道我的意思是說日本 韓國跟我們本來是針對我們這三個人有這個意向嘛對不對但是現在爭取的只有我們有這個投資意願日本跟韓國都沒有啊我們只是表達這個意向而已事實上最後要不要投入的話還是要看它的效益的結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5003.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5026.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
如果未來日本 韓國沒有這個意願的話我們也不投資嗎我們也不要不一定 看它實質的投資效益有沒有具備那個效益有點是 那我的意思是說如果之後這個管線是我們投資進去的話我們到時候購買的這個液態的這個天然氣的話成本就必須要降低啊到時候我們拉出來的話日本現在沒有 日本 韓國不要投資到時候我們投資進去了 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5027.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5047.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
因為我們不會是唯一的投資國啦所以我想請問嘛我請問日本 韓國若不投資進去的話我們也不會投資是不是其他國家通通不投資我們當然沒有辦法投好 我們就要這個答案日本 韓國沒有去爭取的投資的話我們就不能投資好不好好 謝謝好 謝謝接下來我們請謝一芬委員請做詢問 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5060.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5074.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
好 謝謝主席給龔部長喝一口水好 我們請楊代表 龔部長還有我們國發會的葉主委好 我們請三位 謝謝各位早安謝委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5083.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5105.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
我們卓院長他已經證實了台美目前在交換文件的這個階段了那我們知道國人都在意的是我們有沒有比日本韓國更好的條件那日本韓國他們分別都已經承諾投資5500億跟3500億那台灣到底投資多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5110.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5139.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
是有什么具体的数字可以跟国人报告一下吗杨代表报告委员我想日本跟韩国跟我们的情形不一样我们的投资模式是依照我们的经济发展产业结构跟业者的需求所定出来的至于金额的部分因为还在议定当中也不便细节对外宣布所以是不是要把我们科学园区 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5140.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5155.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
整個在美國再複製一個是這個概念嗎那如果這樣子的話除了台積電有多少的科學園區的廠商也要共同到美國去投資 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5157.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5178.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
報告委員 我們是說我們的內科學園區的經驗跟美國來交換意見協助我們的業者在當地能夠設立產業園區或是產業記錄不是把我們的科學園區搬到美國去我覺得這一部分跟委員做一個澄清那如果台積電去 整個供應鏈要不要去 部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5180.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5205.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
沒有啊 現在台積電的這個亞利桑那廠已經開始量產但是供應鏈還是沒有去啊很多都去了 很多都去了而且現在預估到美國投資的台灣廠商科技業而言就要他的對美的投資建一個廠比台灣的投資是要增加五到七倍 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5207.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5236.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
這個數字你們有沒有掌握應該沒有那麼高了沒有 你們掌握的沒那麼高是不是你們覺得沒有那麼高是不是那因為美國的生產的條件以及法令的這個跟台灣是有非常大的差異以及他們如何跟美國建立這樣子的一個就是說相關的能夠在台灣就是說有這樣相關的法令的 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5237.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5249.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
這個可及性在美國並沒有是不是這也就是為什麼我們要居獨居就是說台灣政府跟美國政府要有一個比較好的溝通沒有5到7倍 幾倍 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5251.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5277.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
那這個是企業界的秘密是啊 如果沒有到7倍還是幾倍這個要台積電來說明要台積電我們不方便是所有廠家這是它業者的秘密所以現在投資的金額還沒有還沒有確定嗎投資的 您說對美投資的金額你說台積電嗎不是楊代表楊代表楊代表有答案 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5279.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5293.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
報告委員我剛剛已經說明了我們現在的投資金額尚未議定在談判前不便對外說明因為我們要爭取對我業者最有利的條件所以還沒有確定還沒有確定那是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5294.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5317.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
要以我們整個產硬鏈到美國去增加他們半導體的產出那請問我們是不是變成要幫美國的企業來培養就是他們的就是勞力勞動力在半導體相關製造的勞動力是不是這是不是談的條件之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5318.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5341.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
報告委員我們沒有答應美國說要幫他訓練技術人員我想業者他們在做投資的時候依照他們的需求但是但是美國如果要求台灣的企業到赴美投資的時候他其實有要求我們要用當地的勞動力是不是多大比例 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5344.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5350.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
沒有談這個但是從對外投資來講當然要用當地的勞工那我們是不是以這樣子就是對於美國半導體製造業技術人力的訓練代替了巨額的資金投入 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5364.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5391.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
因為你一個廠在那邊會不會一個廠在那邊要運作基本的這個人力上的這個基本條件還是要存在啊要不然他的廠沒有辦法運作啊對所以他們本身台積電就會有一些職能訓練但是現在目前就是說在建廠階段他仰賴的是我們台灣的就是說台積電的員工赴美去建廠那甚至開始投入量產嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5392.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5409.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
那很多建廠的人員已經回來了有一些已經回來了部分啦部分啦那還是最大部分還是仰賴台灣的嗎那他們現在希望說我們能夠訓練這個相關的部分嗎那個葉主委知不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5410.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5428.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
這個部分的話就台積電自己本身他會有自己的判斷因為畢竟就是說他整個廠在那邊營運的話那到底要怎樣去做人力的安排然後是不是有一些員工要送回來台灣那他們要求多大的比例在地員工這個我倒不清楚說有多大 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5428.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5447.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
所以如果我們不是超越日韓這樣子的投資金額是不是以我們目前來訓練當地的半導體生產的技術人員那來成為我們關稅談判的一個條件之一呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5450.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5465.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
這個應該不會是談判條件兩位代表都沒說你們兩個怎麼就在前面講報告委員他都是我們在副院長領導之下最好的談判夥伴所以他們兩個講的代表你們談判的內容嗎對 我們都一起的 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5466.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5492.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
所以代表你們談判內容嗎是不是他們剛剛已經表述了這個金額議定而且並沒有說訓練他的勞工室談判關稅減讓的一部分我們現在沒有談到這些好那我再問工部長就是目前我們對於關稅衝擊的這個四大措施就是外銷貸款的保證就是說保證加碼 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5493.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5508.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
那我發現加碼的荷寶只有10.8億還有中小微企業發展貸款加碼身貸是628件61.4億研發轉型865件那爭取海外訂單549件代表了我們過去認為因應關稅衝擊就是說創造出來的這些方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5524.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5533.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
目前為止好像效率乘數都不高是不是那是不是代表我們這些方案的作用呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5536.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5560.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
這樣加起來有兩千多件還是有很多那我們還是要加強宣導因為有些企業可能沒有收到這樣的訊息那所以我們為什麼要因為我們給他460億的特別預算的貸款身貸額度那是460億喔那他其實身貸的還沒有含就是說已經合則的身貸只有61億 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5563.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5581.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
這個執行期間要兩年多所以還有很多的時間可能需要直接經費好不是要一次就用完我再問一下楊代表一個事情好不好楊代表我們關稅什麼時候可以抵定你知道嗎財政部的出口數字都沒有辦法算 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5583.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5599.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
報告委員剛剛已經講了我們如果對等那個232這個供應鏈一談妥的話對等的貴稅率我們一定要調降而且不疊加我們會緊述的依照國人的所以我們期待的是232跟對等關稅一起談嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5600.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5622.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
這個剛剛我在報告裡面有講美國的我的產業的結構非常特殊是因為半導體還有電子產品造成最大的逆差所以這是兩個協定是一起談的那一起談的情況下對於未來關稅可能下降的這樣的機率有多大你說一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5623.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5638.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
我想政府院長您對領導的團隊有信心我們一定要爭取往下對等條件而且要不疊加這對我們業者才有機率啊楊代表我問一下嘛機率有多高機率非常的高70%80%還是90%還是低於70%四個答案嘛選擇題 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5648.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5676.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
我想那個底線談判沒有經過核定的話我們不能講到100%但是這是我們最大的期盼我們也有很高的信心可以爭取那是70% 80%還是90%我還是不做這個比率的評斷機率啊機率啊這不是這不是那個機率嗎我沒有說你會100%嘛機率非常的高那是多少啊70%以上還以下 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5677.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5699.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
我們一定要爭取二三奧供應鏈最好的稅率之下我們才會結束這個談判所以這個談判一結束對等也會調降這是我們最大的期盼機率還是非常的高你都沒有講我跟你講現在全台灣所有的製造業所有的高科技所有都在等你們 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5701.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5715.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
連財政部政府部門所有明年的稅收預估的數字都沒有辦法出來耶因為不知道明年的出口如何啊是不是但在這個情況下你總要透露給大家一點點那個吧是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5717.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5738.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
報告委員我還是要講機率真的非常高這是我們努力的目標因為任何一個協定沒有談完之後細項一公佈之後可能會影響到我們最好的結果所以我會跟委員報告我們會努力而且機率非常非常的高好 謝謝好 謝謝謝一鋒委員 謝謝我們接下來請鄭振前委員請做詢答 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5755.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5768.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
謝謝主席我想請一下國發會葉俊賢主委然後經濟部工部長還有我們經貿談判辦公室的談判總代表楊珍妮謝謝好 我們請上位 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5776.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5797.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
首先我想先請教一下國發會主委這幾年就是台灣已經持續58個月生不如死就是新適合人口非常的少那各個產業都在缺工我想請教一下那個國發會主委你知道現在缺工的情況有多嚴重嗎缺工的情況的話我這邊有一個表大致上就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5798.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5817.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
以那一個就是休息停班的這個部分來講的話比例比較高的會是在台中市這個部分OK 簡單回憶就好啦缺工情況應該肯定很嚴重對不對各行業幾乎都缺工對不對有一些啦但可能沒有委員講的那麼嚴重 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5818.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
5836.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
你覺得那個物流業嚴不嚴重製造業嚴不嚴重服務業嚴不嚴重你覺得哪個產業不嚴重你告訴我都很重要哪個產業不缺工你告訴我都缺工嘛對不對高科技缺不缺工 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
5837.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
5863.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
也缺工嘛對不對高科技也缺工嘛對不對好那我想請教一下因為之前就是包括我們的行政院副院長也提到了就是說我們要幫川普來蓋一個美版竹科然後我們副總統也特別提到了這個台灣的半導體供應鏈要一起赴美我想請教一下我們經濟部長就是整個的 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
5864.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
5872.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
美版逐科這件事情我知道你們回過很多次你們都否認這件事情可是整個產業鏈要過去這件事情是確定的對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
5873.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
5900.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
還是要看企業界他們的一些想法我剛才還是提到就是說第一個產業要對外投資一定是要貼近客戶有訂單然後而且會賺錢如果還達不到那樣的經濟規模他是不會出去的所以說其實整個半導體產業鏈其實非常的多台積電一家的協力廠商超過200家200家以上的一個供應鏈那現在之前在前部長的時候他那時候去參加那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
5901.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
5921.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
美國的一個商場的時候有將近200家的台灣廠商一起到美國去那他們也都表示要跟著台積電過去這件事情我想經濟部長應該不會不了解對不對那我想請教一下我們有沒有對於整個半導體產業 另外一對台灣整體經濟跟整個產業還有國安風險的一個評估 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
5929.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
5954.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
是有一個評估就是說它這樣的投資到底會對我們的影響是怎麼樣但是我們就是說為什麼要求廠商都要投資一定要國內的有相對投資好 那我問一下你講到這個點你剛剛也特別回應一件事情就是說台積電承諾到美國去投資1650億的時候它也會相應的在台灣擴大投資你剛剛是這麼回應對不對超過這個金額 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
5956.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
5975.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
超過這個金額我想請教一下我們台積電到美國去投資預計要分幾年投資完他早沒有壓時間不過他大概是應該是兩年或兩年多一個廠這樣子的速度所以預計大概會幾年的時候把這筆承諾投資完 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
5982.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
5998.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
如果啦 如果需求還是持續強烈的話那它會持續地蓋嘛平均兩年蓋一個廠的話那它會蓋六個廠嘛 差不多所以你說要十幾年才會投資完這1650億美元是是喔 OK 好在戰場的速度情況之下 對 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
5999.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6014.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
但是在台灣的速度就很快因為台灣的蓋廠速度非常非常快好 我這邊要特別講一下因為按照台積電法說會的資料的時候今年台積電在台灣的一個投資金額大概420億美元在台灣的投資那麼表示說台積電在台灣的投資佔整個台灣2024年明目GDP7960億美元大概要佔5%多 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6029.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6047.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
這個金額其實非常的龐大所以台積電對於整個台灣的一個經濟成長肯定是具有非常帶動龍頭的一個效果部長這沒有問題吧是的那我們也看到一個情況就是說現在整個竹科 中科 南科它的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6049.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6074.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
半導體的一個產業 機體電路的一個產值的時候整體來說佔了79.99% 將近八成台灣這個部分所以你看台積電對整個台灣的整個整體經濟的帶動有多大的一個影響所以我這邊的時候要特別提到一個事情就是說之前美國商務部長盧特尼克他特別提到說我們高階製程要跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6075.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6100.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
台灣跟美國五五分這件事情的時候我們經濟部這邊有沒有掌控到一些相關的訊息如果台灣的產能跟美國的產能要一樣高階製程五五分那是不可能的從現在的投資速度就可以看得出來落差越差越大所以說我這邊我要特別提到就整個台積電 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6102.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6124.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
的高階製程 佔它全球的一個市佔率到92%而且台積電高階製程佔它台積電整體營收的74%所以我們認為政府一定有責任要把台積電這邊在台灣這邊的鞏固更好更明確 這沒有問題啦OK那我最後我想請教一下那個楊代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6128.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6145.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
最近路透社有一個新聞說台美正在洽談培訓美國高科技人才的協議有沒有這件事情我想剛剛葉主委已經表明了我們沒有談到這一點也沒有這個協議所以路透社這個新聞是假訊息 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6147.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6159.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
那是他自己的報導我們沒有談這個你們沒有談這個訊息可是路透社報導的狀態所以你這邊覺得說路透社這個新聞是假訊息對不對報導不真實不是假訊息是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6160.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6187.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
還是說因為我發現我們的政府很多談判的一個資料都落後在整個媒體之外包括我們那時候20%的那個疊加的部分我們政府承認的速度也在媒體之後很多事情都是後來媒體報導之後我們後來證明媒體講的好像有這麼一回事那麼我想了解就是我們對於美國要求我們培訓美國高科技的這個協議沒有在談這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6188.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6206.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
是的沒有沒有談這件事情OK那我為什麼特別講這個狀態因為剛剛部長這邊有提到說就是很多台積電的工程師過去然後後來也會回來可是我這邊要特別講到一個情況是很多情況人才如果過去之後是回不來的所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6207.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6229.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
代表這邊如果說很明確跟我們講說路透社這個新聞是假訊息因為我們根本沒有在談這件事情那我再把這邊因為這個是路透社的一個英文版的原文他很清楚的這邊提到他說川普他希望說一些外籍勞工能夠扮演更積極的角色這邊的外籍勞工指的是台灣的勞工那如果說 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6230.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6257.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
代表覺得說這樣子的一個訊息是不真實的訊息的時候那我們是不是要做一個公開的一個澄清針對路透社這樣的新聞做一個澄清代表報告委員其實這邊報導最後他也引用到我們企業自己的內部訓練所以我覺得我們不去幫這個路透社他做任何的解釋但是我們有澄清這個不是在我們談判的條件之一OK |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6258.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6286.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
那因為說在整個談判過程當中我們看到很多情況就政府的公開資料一直都在整個媒體之後所以我們也希望就是所有的一個部分剛剛有委員提到說現在已經台美已經進到換聞的一個階段有到這個階段嗎代表我們進到最後的談判階段但是所有的底線要確定之後才能到換聞的階段了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6288.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6307.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
是说相关的条件在换文不是叫换文是在交换文件表示这些承诺就条件在交换就对了还不是正式的一个文本在交换对不对不是有关相关技术的议题有一些条件我们要澄清他也要了解在交换这些文件 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6308.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6325.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
OK 好 謝謝那我們希望整個台美的談判的時候能夠可以公開的部分盡量讓老百姓知道至少讓國會知道然後我覺得不要有很多的訊息像路透社這個信息出來之後的時候其實讓整個科學園區很多的產業 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6327.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6343.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
他們很擔心他們擔心台積電如果很多人到美國去幫美國培訓人才的時候那台積電會吸引其他台灣其他相關公司的人往台積電流動那台積電就會變成一個像美國書寫人才的一個供應站 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6344.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6364.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
那整個台灣的整個高科技的人才圈又會產生一個大地震所以我們希望這樣的事情不要發生然後工部長剛剛提到說我們對於整個半導體產業到美國去對整個台灣產業經濟國安的這種評估的時候之後可不可以本席一個很完整的資料謝謝好 謝謝謝謝 接下來我們請鄭天才委員請做詢答 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6384.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6399.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
主席 各位委員 有請龔部長還有楊代表楊談判代表總談判代表這個美國川普對我們的國際的從4月2號開始然後4月5號宣布10%到32% |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6413.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6436.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
又到調降為20%都是疊加的疊加而且是暫時性稅率暫時性稅率如果我們從4月到現在這已經很久了從4月到現在現在已經是12月了所以還是叫暫時性這麼久還在叫暫時性 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6441.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6463.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
我們進一步編列了460億元的這個辦理支持產業這四大措施包括外銷貸款優惠保證加碼中小型中小微型企業多元發展貸款加碼研發轉型補助及增企海外訂單然後你們是要一流200億那這個所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6468.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6496.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
可以用的是260億目前這個現在已經編出來的就是460億那個200億是另外的還沒有送到立法院所以這460億目前執行的情形這個相關的這些企業產業還可以支持成效如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6497.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6526.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
目前来讲因为大概有2000多个申请案那我们积极的办理当中那同时我们北中南东赶快就是有一个说明会让更多的企业可以了解那我们也组了辅导团到也是北中南东到各地去做实质上的一些辅导实地辅导希望可以支持这些中小微或传统产业的一些发展以这个经济部的 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6527.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6555.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
了解經過我們這樣的經濟部這樣的一個透過預算包括說明包括各方面的這個目前就企業來講各方面他們的影響到底有沒有評估還是沒有什麼影響因為有了這些支持有了支持當然對他們還是有一些幫助那不過 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6556.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6578.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
就整個情勢上來講我們還是希望就是說那個20%的暫時性關稅可以往下降然後不疊加然後尤其是因為這些是對等關稅的項目還有並同232的一些項目那我們希望232的項目也可以得到這個優惠的待遇對 這個還是我們要努力的好 那個梁代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6584.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6609.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
剛剛 剛剛委員報告說我們現在還在暫時因為我們的這個談判比較特殊的是因為我們的貿易逆差都來自於半導體還有這些電子產品因為呢 美國要二三二也在進行二三二的調查所以在這個複雜性情況下我們當然要幫業者爭取最好的利益然後呢 能夠在對 二對等關稅能夠進行調漲以及不跌價 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6611.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6640.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
刚才你特别提到这个半导体我们不是很早就很早就跟他们跟美国谈而且也承诺要设厂了这样还没有办法还不能成为一个其他很多国家都定案了我们的有这么好的一个跟他们的一个沟通协调的这么好的产业 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6641.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6668.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
刚刚委员讲的应该是个别企业自己做的对外跟美国做的承诺那我们现在是讲政府对政府的谈判我谈的就是政府对政府对我谈的就是政府对政府抱歉政府对政府的谈判一定要涉及到232关税个别产业当我做了任何的承诺之后他可以有优惠的关税而不是给别的国家有优惠关税我们没有优惠关税 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6669.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6696.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
好請教楊代表我講的是政府對政府當然我們要把半導體列為當然不能公開但是半導體的產業去啦台積電去啦對不對他去之前後來也跟賴總統也見面了好我請教一下國防因為我們要善用我們自己很多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6698.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6705.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
這個資源我們就說國防我們從2015年3308億的國防預算一直成長到2025是7726億到2026是9495億然後賴總統最近又宣布他先跟美國報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6728.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6743.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
投書美國媒體喔1.25兆這個談判當然要包含我們所有可以提出來的要提出來沒有談嗎 沒有提嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6747.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6772.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
这分两部分您刚刚讲到的国防的采购那个没有列在我们的进出口的统计资料那另外有关于赖总统在今年二月以及国庆的原告有再次强调为了增加我们的国防自卫能力我们有希望在2030年达到GTT3%美方并没有做任何的表述在谈判的过程中 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6774.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6801.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
那他们没有表述我们的代表谈判代表有没有表述我们是跟他表明说总统有这样的表明增加我们的自卫防卫能力自主的防卫能力我们的国防支出会达到GDP3%我说美方并没有表述是这个题目并不是纳在我们谈判的要件之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6802.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6825.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
不管有沒有談判就是能講的能說的對美國有很多的一個支持協助的都要說出來就如同我剛講的現在的美國官員不見得知道2015年的國防預算我們的國防預算是多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6827.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6854.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
你要讓他知道原來是這麼多因為現在他們官員也是剛上任的所以這個部分包括你今天提的這個報告裡面有提到這個要送交國會對不對我剛剛為什麼要講從4月到現在這麼久了結果他一直暫時信他就不用一直送國會不用送立法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6855.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6876.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
這個也是一個談判的各種是要講的都要講這樣知道嗎我的建議 我只能建議我們任何的說明都會跟美方做說明對不對 一直暫時性都不用送立法院對不對 一直送暫時性到明年後年 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6877.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6898.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
因為我們還在繼續希望暫時性的稅率要調降所以我們跟立法院要做說明各種對我們必須要有幫助的都要把它提好不好 謝謝謝謝接下來我們請張旭凱委員請做詢問 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6922.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6925.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
謝謝 請阿公部長跟總談判代表請兩位 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
6933.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
6960.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
張委員好 你們兩個好 我剛才可以看你們在答詢立委的這個剛剛的時候 蒙點頭的時候會有好消息 很期待喔 好不好快定案了 希望在這個降關稅方面是真的會可以達成你們剛剛講的這個可是我要問更具體的更具體的 很多民眾直接很關心的馬上定案了美國進口我們這邊的汽車啊這只是一個重要談判的議題嘛 對不對 總代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
6962.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
6984.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
關稅 美國的這個車子進來會是低關稅 甚至零關稅進來嗎報告委員 任何一個項目都是在我們關稅談判裡面但是因為還沒有達到最後的協議我們還是不便對委員報告到底有降到多少會降 降多少還不知道是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
6985.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
6991.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
這個我還是表述任何一個協議在沒有簽訂之前任何一個項目都會被變動還有可能變動 可是有討論那那個農民非常關心農產品 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
6999.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7024.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
我想刚刚我报告美国确实是以贸易优先的时候以它的农产品的出口它要求各国都应该大幅度的要调降农产品跟工业产品关税但是我们还是基于国家产业的利益粮食安全国民的健康都会争取我们最有利的条件我们在争取可是是会降的吗例如说八卦稻米的关税会不会降或者量会不会增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7025.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7045.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
我剛有報告有些產業是基於國家產業的利益糧食的安全國民的健康我們會力爭要求要保留我剛去美國國會外交回來有一個很重要的內幕他們那邊很多的這個官員跟議員再問一個就是中油 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7047.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7065.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
對阿拉斯加的這個天然氣的採購跟這個投資那邊回來一個訊息第一個很重要非常非常重要就是川普總統非常注意他的進度第二個我得到消息是最近好像我們簽了意向書之後這個投資好像有點停擺是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7069.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7095.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
目前有什麼進度嗎在談的這個過程是不是有點上次投了一項書上次我問了前任的經濟部長他說我們對美國的這個天然氣採購會增加大概兩倍目前所有我們對天然氣採購美國是上百分之十現在會提高到百分之三十可是另外比較嚴重的比較重大要討論的是那些重大投資嘛你說管線對不對這些管線那美國那邊的消息是說好像最近有點一項書簽了之後有點停滯是吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7096.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7121.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
因為那個雙方還是持續在討論當中那因為他的這個Business Plan就是BPR他如果寫得更完整的話那我們就評估的會更具體我提出兩個重點第一個川普我很注意這個事情第二個進度不要停下來要趕快去討論但第一個我們的優先是什麼價格天然氣的價格可以買多可是要降那第二個如果去投資的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7122.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7141.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
我剛剛有提嘛 如果南韓跟日本都不要 我們就不能去啦那如果真的 例如說可能管線 或者是挖這個挖的這個過程 開採這個過程我們可以投資 可是這個一定要一定的回收 好不好進度要跟上 好不好另外我來問一下那個那個總代表你們請回 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7143.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7163.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
那個最近很多人說可能是一個好消息就是河山的這個重啟可是這兩天發生一個 我跟你講要不要做環評的事情 他們說環境部部長啊把球踢回來 踢皮球說要你先去做這個政策評估經濟部可能針對這個河山重啟做政策評估嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7164.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7184.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
包委員經濟部施政或行政單位都是依法行政那我們為什麼可以核三開始啟動自我評估那就是因為有核管法的修正以後辦法也改了我們有這樣的依據嘛那但是按照環評法目前的要求並沒有要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7186.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7206.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
這樣的情勢需要做重新環評並沒有這樣的要求所以環評沒有需要重新做對 但是如果將來環評法改變了那我們當然只能遵守那現在環境部直接先講說要你做政策評估那照目前規定也不需要嗎理論上我們的了解 我們的解讀環評法是沒有這樣的要求目前沒有需要對 不需要政策評估也不需要環境評估 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7207.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7232.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
好來現在好消息是因為你27號你核定了台電的這個台電他的報告裡面他評估說核二核三具有再運轉的可行性那3月份你這個報告要送到核安位去現在兩個很重要的事情現在很多人在講會不會是拖延好消息是說好像看起來到2027年大概一年半以後就有可能再重啟核三可是很多人在問兩個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7233.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7261.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
一個不要拖延不要拖延太久不會不會報告委員這個因為有兩個再運轉計畫提出來以後提給何安慧她會給我們看我們再運轉計畫去做另外一個是自主的自主的安全檢查那個會持續並行但是不會不會拖延不會不要讓人家外界覺得說打假球所以進度要跟上我具體的我具體這樣提來來來那個文森在現場你們現在做這個自主的這個安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7264.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7288.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
對不對 需要一年半時間現在很多專家學者提了一個非常重要的包括艾光中 艾教授他們都提了你們這個自主的這個安檢是不是就依照美國NRC所規定的LRA就是所謂的執照更新評估報告做的我們用的都是美國標準嘛 對不對跟委員報告 全世界的核安規則都是依照當國自己所建立的標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7289.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7316.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
我们用的是美国标准嘛对不对我要说我们follow的是我们核安会提出来的标准那这一次提出来因为我们是重启所以我们除了这些相关的规范就是研译的标准之外还有一些重启相关的工作那核安会多了一个要求就是我们必须提再运转计划就是你机组是不是能够恢复到 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7317.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7334.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
執照結束前的狀況所以它對於人員編制機組有沒有被拆除等等相關計畫我們必須做說明這是第一段第二段它在後段的安全檢查也提出了新增的一些規範包括輻射相關的議題以及耐震 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7335.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7354.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
的議題等等這兩個我想說您都有把它給mark出來不是 你講應該都是美國那個LLR他們本身的規範裡面那個他們的規範是前面那三項就是基本上基礎設備的老化相關的一些安全分析它有不同因為台灣是license到齊 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7355.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7372.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
重啟所以 核安會在訂定標準的時候增加了一些項目如果有符合他們的因為如果機照我可不可以跟您簡單報告一個Benchmark就是核一的自我安全檢查事實上是做過的核一的自我安全檢查做了四年 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7373.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7394.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
我就直接跟您報告就是說我們最近這一段時間一直聽到說我們要故意拖延等等我其實完全不知道說因為講的都是專家可是合一的自我安全檢查就做了四年我們現在提出來的時間是比這個還短的所以我完全無法理解說為什麼會講說台電要故意拖延 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7395.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7425.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
無法理解我們可以很具體的很具體的盡快往這個時程往前所以我剛講了嘛你如果用LRA這個標準聽我講完你不要急著講話好不好時間有限第一個你如果照美國這套標準你本來2025年開始就有持續在做嘛就像你剛講的前三項那你就前三項先按照那個標準就不要再不要再不要讓那個時間往後延了另外呢來來等一下喔另外李秉立教授啊做了一個圖表來給大家看一下你剛講的那個講說前三項ABC這個都是有的 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7426.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7454.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
事項啊林秉林教授特別提這個觀點既然你河山要重啟要經過這麼多的這個過程他說很多地方已經做過了或者可以同時做的可以平行做的就盡快好不好你參考一下你給我一個報告就好你現在不用急著打你回去看這幾項有很多專家協議認為可以平行做不要做完A再做B再做C他可以平行做就盡快時間就可以盡快另外呢你看一下裡面一個最關鍵的就是1燃料棒的採購 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7457.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7483.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
燃料棒採購如果整個全部都做完以後再去買就太晚了 我給你看一個例子來美國的這個帕西迪斯帕西迪斯最近美國政府提供他15.2億的美金貸款後來企業裡面怎麼訂就是說你包括訂過新的燃料棒都要先買我們當初核四也是先買 對不對所以包括燃料棒可以考慮一下 好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7484.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7506.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
那個跟委員報告現在舉的國外的例子基本上我們都剪一段一段再講人家的計畫人家這一個電廠是之前已經開始做已經做完LRA審查了後來他沒有繼續研議後來想一想又想說好那我來研議好了那個完全就是沒有相同基礎的事 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7507.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7524.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
拿來做比喻我們是沒有辦法這個完全是不同的事情怎麼可能是來比較我希望說委員我們要提這些案例都OK但是把它的基礎跟前提拿出來做過對比就是基礎跟前提要一樣才能夠去講這件事但如果您提到 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7525.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7541.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
沒有你剛講的我先說每個項目平行調查我們本來就在平行調查他說你這個每個步驟都要做對不對有沒有可能如果可以平行先做的就先做第二個如果是LRA你剛講的你2005年某部已經做的就盡快 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7545.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7571.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
這個很理性啊怎麼會有這個問題平行調查本來就是平行調查對就是平行進行啦你們平行在做嘛所以OK啦這是OK的啦現在因為我們極力在發展這個半導體跟AI你連回答都要來啦那你每年經濟部也評估過每年我們的電力現在都成長可能3到5%我們現在極其要電嘛而且要低廉便利的電嘛所以核三核二你們既然有好消息了就儘快好不好不要讓外面接著說打假酒或者拖延好不好儘快好 謝謝好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7580.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7601.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
好 謝謝其他委員 謝謝接下來我們請陳昌明委員請做詢答主席好首先有請經濟部長跟台電的總市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7611.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7628.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
陳偉業 早港部長早我記得郭部長當經濟部長的時候他的口氣不怎麼穩我問他電力不夠了怎麼辦他說要先進的核電機制我們台電我們才會採用 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7630.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7657.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
我現在想一個問題很奇怪當初反核的包括你鞏部長包括你曾董事長都是當初反核的現在怎麼又要開放原來的核電廠核二核三我常常你們講的做一套 收一套沒有準備先是自己的紙張現在你們在反水你們有沒有對自己的良心交代一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7658.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7674.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
因為這個經歷的事實我們都經歷過反風車的時候也在你們時代產生的反核也在你們執政的時候產生的今天這個國民黨就說了替你們去開這一條路你們的政策不是很正確嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7676.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7694.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
所以我一直在想我們啊你們當政務官的一定要好好想我們的未來我們的前瞻在哪裡事情已經發生了已經給大家過了這麼久都忘了當初反俄化反風車的時候有多嚴重啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7695.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7706.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
好不好 檢討一下啦不要說這樣悄悄呼呼過去大家都不瞭解沒有經過這樣的事實法委員 我可以講一下嗎可以啊 可以講一下仔細的時間給我長一點我就給你講一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7709.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7730.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
因為行政部門還是依法行政後面有加一句話你聽不懂國民黨真笨當初環境基本法也是大院當初環境基本法的非核也是大院通過的我們就按照那時候只要電力能用在我們台灣產業的發展我都支持啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7731.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7756.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
意識形態不要那麼重就好啦還是要尊重立法院 立法院定的法我跟妳講 妳不敢去衝就好不然妳管不著 郭部長說他要支持核電 我說你管要不要做我是愛護你們才問這個問題的好 謝謝 董事長請回座 部長那現在我們行政院經貿談判室我們的楊總談判台表你先請回座 郭部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7762.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7785.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
韓總好好久不見了看你氣色越來越好你又帶著微笑那你這次談判最主要就是對等關稅20%還有要暫緩那個原來的關稅對不對20%你們希望降到像日本韓國的15%一樣對不對我們希望稅率要繼續調降 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7790.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7803.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
還有嘉義的研究 因為它是半導體資通的產業都在這個地方我們90%的資操也在這幾個行業裡面好久沒有看到你 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7804.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7830.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
我會說我們的政府很奇怪奇怪在哪裡呢我們的經濟部長我們國發會的葉執委以前的劉執委 郭執委你們在談判的時候都不曉得到今天兩個經濟部還有掌管我們財經大機的國發會裡面都不曉得那你這次回來終於又見到你了有沒有帶來什麼好消息 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7831.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7858.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
委员好 首先跟委员澄清这个谈判团队在第一次4月开始的时候就有对外宣布由政府院长领军 经贸谈判办公室经济部 外交部 国防部经济部 外交部 农业部说什么要公开的都没有公开往好的往坏的给我放心一下因为你今天第一次来让我们真正到底我们要谈判的是往良性发展 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7859.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7885.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
往正面发展我们是在往正面发展跟美方争取最后能够得到最好的税率外面的报纸大概我们是在日本跟韩国那日本的话投资的时候要5500亿美元等于17.3兆韩国是3500亿美元那以韩国的话投资3500亿美元是占我们GDP的14% |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7887.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7910.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
如果依照日本的話5500億美元是佔了69%那到底你們現在外面的新聞我們是要很緊張的你們做官的人量量啊現在每一個中小企業大家都在看你這個消息談判的怎麼樣看你這個政府有沒有夠力有沒有很有資源的跟美國談判到底我們的金額多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7911.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7940.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
好委員跟您報告一下我們在做這個台灣模式的談判是依照我們產業的結構經濟發展最重要我們都有跟業者溝通諮詢過所以我們的模式不跟日本韓國一樣是按照我們國內的需求大概我們投資的金額要多少我想不到最後的談判結論終點我們大概不會對外宣布這個數字我現在跟你說談到台灣模式 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7941.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
7969.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
你們是到底是打世界盃還是在掏空台灣出賣台灣絕對不是掏空台灣你們每一個官員都講我們要打世界盃其實憂心忡忡我們不是聽官方的報告我們是天下之憂而憂後天下之樂而樂其實這裡面的陷阱大概很多那我請教你這個可能部長比較曉得你在旁邊一下我們是老朋友 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
7972.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
7995.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
部長再請工部長你看美國的川普總統跟輝達的黃人輝董事長兩個我們在美國第一次最高階的晶片在美國生產出來的我現在提醒時間快要到了 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
7996.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8020.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
川普总统讲50%的才能要在美国50%的才能会在台湾或者世界各地您常不常说美国霸权主义您不晓得他当然每一个人为他国土的国安的问题费五十五十你台湾要存什么 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8021.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8047.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
還有第二件事情發生沒有問題拿不走政治有什麼拿不走的叫你拿乖乖拿台積電日本把台積電的機師出去結果那家公司的拿那個資料公司老闆是Rapids的董事還是董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8049.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8074.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
日本已經先進他二耐米製作成功明年就要正式生產咱大家洋洋得意再來咱台軍的那個樓前副總到英特爾去你們都不敢發聲我不知道那個政府安裝那麼縱容美國的經濟間諜日本的經濟間諜 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8076.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8101.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
你拿過來我都曉得你們在辦在檢查單位在辦這個非常危險的徵兆你把資金拿過去你把產業鏈帶過去你把人才帶過去台灣剩下什麼美國川普總統還一句話要求台灣的電子產業要替美國培訓技術人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8103.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8131.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
你整碗紅螃蟻你還在說我打世界盃我們自己本不老體啊 你算什麼台灣如果以現在的政治地位不是說我們在批評啊其實我們搖一搖 兩邊都要震動啊為什麼你們腿那麼軟 那很害我不希望台灣的產業在你們執政黨的時代把這整個掏空掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8132.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8157.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
臺灣村的危險從2016年開始這個臺商投資臺灣是大幅的增加投資臺灣你是大幅的增加當然既是在這邊現在大幅的增加但是以後拿過去的話要怎樣大幅增加還是持續大幅增加照目前的規劃不是投資你講的現在大幅增加馬上就大幅的減少了不會啦什麼不會 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8158.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8170.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
按照台積電的規劃你現在要去美國找資料 跟銀行借錢給你們那整個錢就走了 不會來這裡在台灣你找資料 美國那裡50%不夠人用尤其那個產業園 還有那個台灣模式好壞都要看 不要說沒有關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8183.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8184.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
我們接下來請賴樂仁委員請做巡查 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8215.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8217.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
好 謝謝趙薇 請拱部長我們再請拱部長 謝謝部長好 部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8227.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8244.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
我先請教一下總統有宣布了在未來8年要規劃推出1.25兆的國防特別預算那打造台灣之盾那這個如果從經濟或者產業面的角度來看的話部長怎麼看這對台灣的幫助 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8245.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8260.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
是 因為現在照我們的了解就是說國安部是有一些裡面的金額他會釋出給國內的廠商 市商或者是說委託國內廠商製造這個都有 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8261.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8279.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
那他們也估計一個數字出來當然將近有可能有4千他們規劃了4千億的產值創造9萬個就業機會這個經濟部也認同這樣的數字嗎也認可這樣的數字嗎我們大家有看過雙方有check過所以有對過了所以基本上會創造出這樣的產值跟這樣的就業機會對 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8281.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8304.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
那我直接請教除了當然這樣的經費除了跟採購以外的立即性的一些防衛性的不對稱的武力以外哪些的部分是會投入在我們國內的產業就是1.25兆裡面大概有多少的金額會是投入在國內的產業讓我們產業的更提升同時間跟其他世界各國更多的合作跟研發的 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8305.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8324.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
因為至少就我們經濟部來講的話大概整個國防產業鎖定在幾個項目包括現在大家比較關心的是無人載具包括無人機無人船的部分那甚至於還有地面上的我們先從機器狗開始那這個都可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8324.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8344.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
不管是軍事上用途也好那大概總額會是多少就經濟部的粗估這樣的1.25兆裡面大概有多少會落在直接投入到國內的產業因為這個對於台灣很多產業很重要 包括按照這個國防部的估算來講的話它這個4千億裡面大部分就是從國內採購而來的這個4千億是創造出4千億的一個產值 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8349.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8365.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
所以部長的意思是1.25兆裡面有4000億大概是投入到國內的這一塊是這樣嗎大致上是這樣所以創造出9萬個就業機會所以部長的認知跟理解是這樣子的 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8365.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8385.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
OK好那我們來看因為其實這些部分其實對台灣的這些很重要特別是很多的涉及到船產涉及到我們的一些軍工的產業甚至很多各方面的產業也能夠藉這樣機會的時候更加的升級然後同時增加研發能量同時也能夠跟國際更加同步未來甚至有機會提升能力後更多的外銷 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8386.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8406.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
的市場打出去啦我覺得這也是一個很重要的一個所以我也期盼這樣的預算能夠得到立法院支持啦不是只站在採購而已其實它裡面還有涉及到很多是我們國內的自己提升我們本土的一些能量的部分那我再具體的問啦裡面有涉及到無人機的部分這個部分預計是要投入132億 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8407.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8421.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
然後看起來的話在幾位幾個包括台船 包括漢翔幾個大的都會有得到更多的一些訂單來投入到這樣的研發跟投入合作當中是嗎這個132億是我們補助跟支持這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8423.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8443.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
生產端他們有這樣的生產能力以後可以拿到國安部的訂單那個就是他的這個他的銷售額可以增加這個是我們去支持所以這個部分是由經濟部來挹注支持他們的然後接下來他們還可以再取得更多1.25兆的這樣的預算的規模來取得 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8444.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8470.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
他們的這個影響可以增加我想這個對於中南部的很多的產業很重要啦不管是船廠或者一些我們的技術產業這個非常重要啦因為唯有我們讓我們的無人機無人船能夠有更強的實力這個也是現在國際的趨勢啦透過無人機無人船那台灣如果在這一方面能力更加強大的時候其實我們就有能力甚至於外銷出去啦漢翔不知道在台中在高雄都有台船在高雄啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8470.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8485.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
那包括像航太跟船舶的部分所以投入27億這也是經濟部這邊協助來投入但是未來會有更多機會來接到整個國防部1.25兆的訂單對 有一部分是這樣甚至於有一部分是可以拿到國外的訂單 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8486.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8500.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
就是說它的次系統比如說漢翔的部分它可能也跟Airbus可能有一些聯繫還有國外的廠商它也可以拿到有關於次系統或零組件的部分那也可以帶動漢翔它下面的供應鏈 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8502.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8527.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
這個對我們的航太產業對我們的造船產業都有相當大的幫助啦特別很多的幾乎都是座落在中南部啦甚至於像台船、中信等等這個都在高雄就變成它會有更強的能量去強化出研發這些無人載具的能力那無人載具能力以後將來它會形成我們的產業可以賣到世界各國去像中信跟隆德他們接到國外的這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8527.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8548.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
比较中型的这个巡逻舰也是因为国内他拿到国内过去给他的订单他有那样的实际经验以后而且实际表现很好那也才可以拿到国外的订单所以1.25兆这个台湾之盾的计划不只是强化我们的防卫性不对称的军力同时间其实对我们的产业也会有相当大的一个帮助是的 是的 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8548.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8569.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
而且甚至可以讓我們更加升級對我們的傳產對我們的基礎產業也會有很大的幫助所以我們希望經濟部這一塊多支持那另外也多對外去做說明讓大家更清楚知道這個錢其實對國家是一個重要的支出它是一個投資它對於整個未來我們的這些國防產業會有更大的一個注意 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8569.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8591.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
是 好 那我再請教一下像機械狗 像衛星的這個部分這個部分經濟部也會投入更多的資源去協助嗎是的 機械狗因為它現在算是一個雛形那公務員在幫忙做這個系統整合跟整機那我們希望到年底可以有階段性的一個成果那慢慢才優化它的一些能量跟能力出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8592.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8618.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
那衛星的部分是我台南比較擅長的還是在這個地面接收的部分那不過現在我們也希望就是說那個衛星本體那個籌載的部分我們也可以趕快發展出來那有了衛星籌載跟地面接收以後它就可以做一些通訊上的設施那可以發展起來把這些solution事實上跟國際的供應鏈連結起來尤其是飛虹供應鏈的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8619.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8641.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
對裡面涉及到很多飛鴻工藝鏈那這也是台灣的機會當然全世界各國都在推動飛鴻工藝鏈的時候我們也是一個很好的機會可以去拿到這塊市場所以我也希望經濟部加大在這五大產業特別是後面的前幾個相對上比較成熟一些那後面的機械狗跟衛星其實我們有些基礎在的那我們可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8641.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8657.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
加大那個力道的話就有機會讓我們進入到國際的一些市場我也希望經濟部站在你們所屬上面加大對於這個力道那特別這些很多都是在中南部啦對很多都在中南部我也希望讓這些特別是我們講到這一次的台美的關稅的問題的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8658.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8682.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
對於這些船產對這些技術產業他們有很多的憂心的時候那政府也透過這樣的機會給予他們更多的支持讓他們能夠在這一波的之中能夠再升級再轉型甚至再提升他們的研發能力再跟國際更多的接軌我認為這個都會是我們照顧到我們的船產照顧我們的技術產業很重要的一環好不好 請部長持續來大力推動是的 是的好 謝謝部長 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8691.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8712.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
現在我們請邱志偉委員執行好 謝謝陳昭明主席第一位請教經貿談判辦楊總談判代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8722.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8736.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
委員好總參議員辛苦了這一年來可能最辛苦的就是您了率領各部會的談判團隊對美國的談判是非常辛苦的那過程中我覺得是你最關鍵的角色 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8738.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8751.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
就是說你們有個評估報告包括經濟部跟這個這個國會都提到如果排除關稅後面清單跟232項目如果對等關稅由32變成20%對我出口產值GDP就業的影響會減緩約五成請問這個是哪一個智庫做的報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8762.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8782.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
首先報告委員這個整個談判最辛苦的應該是院長跟副院長領進的團隊所以這個報告應該是哪一個報告中經院跟台經院到底有幾個智庫做的報告兩個中經院跟台經院是不是可以提供智庫的報告我們參考一下而且你的數據應該很精確 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8785.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8813.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
約減緩約五成對約減緩約五成那到底對哪些產業對AI當然AI這個這個半導體可能影響不大對傳統產業傳統產業向下的很多這個不同的產業它影響有多大這些報告裡面智庫報告有沒有都有沒有提到這個請是不是中經院跟這個台經院的報告評估報告是不是可以提供給報告委員我剛剛請示龔部長因為他當行政秘書長的時候做的他說可以提供 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8813.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8823.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
沒有問題嗎 那個國務長對 我們也要了解一下說他做的評估的基礎是怎麼樣來 國發會那個也一起來好了 國發會的主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
8834.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
8854.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
這個葉主委您的報告裡面提到說對這個臺美對臺灣蘇美主要工業產品大部分是這個半導體跟伺服器這些對20%的這個債券性關稅影響比較低那比較影響大的就是說包括工具機器械汽車零組件等等就屬於傳統產業的領域我給你看一張圖 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
8859.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
8885.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
這個你看這個今年的股價變化年初到現在紅色的全部都是AI半導體藍色的全部船船那這一次這個台美貿易談判不管是你維持在20還是往下降維持在20還是一樣比現在更差因為其他的主要貿易對手國是15%嘛對不對所以我們重點不是在AI跟半導體我們不會受到關稅太大的影響而是受到最大影響是傳統產業 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
8888.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
8914.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
這個必須要對每一個產業都要很精確的評估好 這個您提出這個問題我要請您就針對傳統產業怎麼樣去振興 價值化要提出一個完整的國家戰略不讓他們自生自滅而且我覺得經濟部所提出的相關的這些補貼什麼我覺得對他們而言是於事無補最主要是怎麼樣轉型就是怎麼樣升級 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
8916.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
8936.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
有跟委員報告這個也是為什麼我們要開始推所謂的AI新四大建設這個部分我知道我們那麼多時間改天再跟你請教主委先請回我繼續請教楊總長我一直對你的報告我鑽研很多時間美方追求的很具體 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
8937.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
8964.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
它要增加農工產品出口對不對對 進股貸對 要建立公平的負荷環境第三個要實現環境領域的再工業化這三點都進股貸好 請教一下美國要求增加農工產品主要目的是要平衡貿易逆差對不對是的好 它有沒有具體提出哪些項目有提出哪些具體的金額請您回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
8965.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
8987.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
報告委員 我想美國跟各國談為了要平衡貿易都表示希望絕大部分的農工產品都能夠降稅所以我們就是記憶這個原則在跟美方協商的我的問題很簡單 還有沒有具體提出哪些項目具體的金額一般談判應該會有大概相關的項目跟金額出來吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
8988.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9003.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
我想在談判過程中 大家交換意見的時候會提出來但是因為還沒到公佈的階段所以我們現在沒有跟 在大院這邊跟您報告好 另外提出這個關鍵領域的再工業化 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9004.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9026.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
您能不能说明更清楚一下什么叫关键领域的再工业化它的关键产业最重要希望它再工业化对台湾来讲最重要就是半导体因为我们的出口百分之七贸易印差百分之九成都是在半导体自动性产品跟电阻铃组件所以它希望在这一方的产业它能够建立那台湾可以扮演什么角色呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9027.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9052.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
他希望台湾扮演什么角色或提供什么样的协助他关键产业的再工业化他希望我们在不管是在半导体或是电子零组件自动性产品能够再建立他们跟我们的产业的共同的共荣的合作然后高科技产业继续发展之所以担任台湾代表之所以成功我赞许你就是你把具体的都讲得很抽象 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9055.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9075.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
板抽象講的都很專業謝謝委員 因為現在談判還沒到終點我覺得一個談判代表應該要有這種基本功夫好 接著非寬稅的部分包括美規車准入 農產品標準等等這些都有達到相關的協議了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9080.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9105.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
這邊具體上大部分技術性議題都有抵定還是還有期間應該大部分都抵定了 這是院長也說了所以我們只是在做文件一些技術性最後的磋商好技術性磋商你這邊寫大致完成再做文件交換對不對然後達成文件交換過程之後最後總結會議那會不會拖到明年 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9107.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9125.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
我們希望這個時間的壓力確實是談判你們設定一個時間點我們希望快速的把它結束但是一定要得到好的結果才能結束非常抽象我這個不追問你了就是也許會拖到明年 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9126.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9139.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
我觉得我们会努力希望在今年把它结束但是一定要达成好的结论对我业者有交代才会结束对产业界有帮助对台湾竞争力有帮助好最后一个比较重点是说 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9141.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9165.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
你在第一次台美私底說上的時候我們已經跟美方表達我們有國會保留法律條款對不對是審核我們協議文本要送交立法院來審議喔對好何謂審議審議是可以針對文本這協議的內容做修改調整還是你相關你就是可以要接受還是要退回 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9168.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9192.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
你們做過相關的沙盤推演現在國會結構你理解嗎我們理解我們也有做一些沙盤推演但是我相信如果我們爭取到是對臺灣最有利合理的條件不管是在對等不管是在232我們希望大院都能夠支持要達到國會共識啊這個這件事最為困難的一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9193.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9217.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
在國會達成共識通常是這個執政長提出的相關的協議文本或者什麼內容通常以過去這個兩年的經驗來看要不過的機會蠻大的所以你要碰到國會這一關我是非常憂心你跟美國談判的這個協議文本很完整你們也認為對台灣產業是有幫助的確保國家利益 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9218.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9231.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
如果國會是審議不是被查國會審議他是有權利修改協議的內容還是他如果萬一退回不接受你這個台美協議的這個內容的話談判辦公室 經濟部 國會怎麼去應應我順便請教一下那個國務部長跟這個諸位 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9242.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9265.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
我想在龔部長主委回答之前我們希望你剛說的情形不會發生因為對台灣非常重要美國是我們重要的經貿夥伴我也不希望發生但是如果萬一發生的時候呢我提醒你喔很有可能會發生那如果萬一發生的時候你們有沒有因應之道呢我想我們內部會做這個沙盤推演 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9273.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9298.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
這個是很大的問題啊如果在國會沒有辦法通過我們辛苦談判出來的協議文件文本那對美國要怎麼樣去溝通說明主席稍微再給我30秒再請教一下廣布長跟這個葉主委廣布長跟葉主委我剛提到的問題送交國會審議的問題如果國會 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9302.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9330.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
好 如果不修改如果修改 是不是可以修改還是整本退回或者接受你們有沒有針對這些情境做過沙盤推演 國務長我們盡量說服為什麼剛剛楊總談判代表會跟美國一直談判說一剛開始就跟美國人講說我們國會有這樣審查權所以讓美國人知道說很多的要求要美國人心理的準備嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9331.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9360.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
很多的不是很多的要求必須要讓這個會期是預算會期現在預算都還沒有付尾你知道嗎所有我們答應的條件也要讓這個國會可以接受跟通過才有可能性在10秒鐘在多少在10秒鐘那個葉主委我的看法跟那個國務部長的看法一樣就是全力去溝通希望國會可以通過祝福你們 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9361.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9382.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
先由臺灣現在我們請楊瓊英委員執行謝主席 楊瓊英發言首先邀請這個楊總代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9390.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9400.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
總代表我們根據媒體的報導11月27號那10月份日本工具機整體的訂單較去年同期增加了16.8%那約是日圓1430億元 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9406.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9429.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
尤其日本的工具机的负责人工会的负责人他说他认为美国关税影响已经缓缓所以才能够有这样的成绩但是我们看看我们自己我们看到台湾机械工会理事长庄理事长所指出工具机产业10月份的出口仅有多少1.4亿美元 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9430.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9445.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
年减是23.1%主要是受到景气不佳还有台币汇率的问题竞争对手强国的一个影响度所以目前我们的出口金额是不及于过往的一半 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9446.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9474.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
那在這樣的情況之下我們都知道我們自己工具機它是屬於一個高端精密的一個機種從關鍵的這個零組件到整機產業都是由我們自己自主設計以及我們自己的整合力量這是台灣之光啊但是我們看到長期我們被國際也非常的遵從是最重要世界各國的主要出口國 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9475.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9496.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
但是我們看到日本廠商面臨到同樣的市場來相比我們卻因為高關稅而壓縮了我們的毛利卻因為沒有辦法去降低關稅他們現在的一個痛苦苦境所以本期要請教這個嚴重性不只是 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9497.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9522.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
老闆接單的問題而且嚴重的影響到我國的就業率嚴重的影響到整個民生的議題整個經濟產業鏈所以本席請教楊代表台灣出口的製造的高額關稅正在削弱我們產業的競爭力你們對於降低對美關稅的談判剛剛從頭到尾本席您聽您都一直告訴我們會有好消息 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9526.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9527.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
感谢您的观看 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9528.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9556.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
报告委员我们谈判的目标就是要把对德再往下积极调降而且不叠加然后呢232的结果我们也希望有多项的关税也能够达到最优惠的待遇这就是我们现在谈判的重点从头到尾从4月一直告诉我们到现在每一次的回答就是如此让我们的产业姆萨萨我们不知道谈判的 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9557.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9580.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
最黑箱殘判的最慢一拖再拖所以本席好不容易聽到您告訴我們說一定到最後階段那到底什麼時候會告訴我們能夠給我們看到實質的出口的救命效果請做說明委員剛剛你講到這個黑箱我不贊同因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9582.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9601.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
在第一次的谈判回来我们有说明然后院长也接同副院长也跟大院来做说明了此外我们也在我们的请问你去告诉我们的产业到目前为止从谈判了这么久谁知道我们的答案是什么所以本期针对本期的提问 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9602.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9628.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
因為政府本來就是要協助民眾照顧民眾尤其是他們的產業面對到這麼樣的一個關鍵議題所以請問什麼時候沒關係您告訴本席我們這這麼辛苦的這個從4月份開始談判到現在那麼你們告訴我今天告訴我們已經到最後階段請問你們預計何時可以告訴我們的民眾那麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9629.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9656.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
我们出口救命成效要怎么样什么时间内容是什么尽量的尽数的把它结束尽量跟尽数是什么呢是12月底还是要拖还是怎么样因为我们的产业到目前为止我们不敢结单但是也不能不结单因为我们的就业率我们的劳工都是我们很重要的产业生命力 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9657.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9673.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
所以你要解決我們的產業啊你可不可以告訴我們您月計是在這個月底還是下個月呢告訴我們方向 答案就您所說的 降低關稅以及232條款要怎麼樣優惠我們請可不可以給我們一個大約時間點 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9676.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9703.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
委員 產業所面臨的困難的不確定性我們非常了解哇 這個最好了您非常了解就是要解決我們的問題啊對 我們要解決問題但是談判是要給也要拿所以在這個怎麼求取最好的產業的利益這是我們最重要的我還是回答我們會緊述快速的能夠拿到對業者的好利益社會大眾聽到緊述快速我們還是得不到答案 李請回 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9705.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
9707.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
那本席要來請教我們的部長工部長台美關稅協議呢即將要出爐我也要謝謝索領軍的總談判代表剛剛說我會盡速會快速那這個方向是爭取對等關稅稅率15%而且不疊加的這個原來的原稅率是不是如此這個方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
9730.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
9749.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
接下来232条款也有关于到我们关税优惠的待遇是不是232条款杨总代表在点头那么既然你们两位都说是那何时可以告诉我们你们预估大概什么时候可以告诉我们 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
9751.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
9777.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
因為剛剛總談判代表請依照你經濟部長的立場來回答談判代表告訴我們我會盡快進數就從4月份開始每一次的回答都是如此我們當然期待也是盡快的可以那什麼時候呢你們總是有一個KPI嘛因為從4月份到現在那你們告訴我進數盡快是12月底會告訴我們嗎你預估會不會會不會 部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
9781.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
9803.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
因為這個我沒有辦法把握你也是沒有辦法把握你是我們的經濟部長那一月份會不會因為你們都參與其中啊那一月份會不會你們是盡量我們社會大眾在聽到一個是盡速盡快一個是盡量所以我們到現在還得不到答案有沒有信心達成 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
9805.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
9828.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
有信心但是沒有時間點是不是如此有沒有信心達成剛剛告訴我們的這個方向楊總代表我可不可以再請你再上來一下兩位因為告訴我們是盡量因為告訴我們是盡速時間點那剛剛部長回答是有信心那請教楊總代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
9829.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
9858.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
是不是朝著232優惠的這個待遇以及這個15%從現在暫時性的20%到這個15%然後不加原來的關稅不疊加這是我們談判目標一定要有信心一定要拿到這個最好的優惠稅率所以你是有信心可以拿到剛剛我們所說的這兩個方向這是我們要達成的目標一定要有信心是信心嘛那所以其實這一點還是沒有辦法告訴我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
9859.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
9873.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
因為談判是雙方的不是一方的因為一拖再拖讓我們的產業不知道該怎麼辦 你知道嗎現在在我們的中部地區我們的工具機 機械類別 扣件等我們不只關稅的問題我們還有一個匯率的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
9876.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
9890.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
所以剛剛本席特別舉了日本工具機的例子人家增加那麼多 我們的成效是如此你們告訴我說 你們都很清楚那我們的產業要怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
9892.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
9912.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
這是本席所要請問的我們的產業到底要怎麼辦我們的產業現在只有什麼 裁員 減薪而且會影響到本來穩定可以勞工收入的去繳他的房貸 現在也有也有 乾脆我停止了繳房貸 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
9913.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
9930.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
你讓家庭的生活都已經受到影響我們到底要怎麼辦去協助產業我們還是有支持方案來支持他們就是說短期間不管是貸款的問題雨仙也不收傘然後貸款的問題最後一個議題我請國發會國發會本席跟你討論在一個月前本席再次請教你我們的傳統產業這麼辛苦您現在的AI導入 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
9943.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
9964.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
轉型但是本席告訴你我現在現有的傳統產業中小企業他的貸款他已經在急救室了你應該先解決讓他可以存活下來啊所以本席具體要求你你去研議現在他們的貸款你可以怎麼樣補貼他們利息你可以怎樣減減可是 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
9966.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
9984.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
上個禮拜本席收到你的這個回函一個月後的研議你們現在結論要怎麼做怎麼補貼有啊怎麼補貼請教那一個部分還是一樣就是說我們會透過那一個一些銀行的譬如銀行的一些機構譬如說像假設譬如說像台 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
9986.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10000.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
台企會針對某一些特定的一些中小企業的一些一些信保基金啊他會提供一些利息的補貼這個是新貸新的貸款你舊貸就已經沒有辦法解決了你叫他再去舉新貸所以本席告訴你的舊的會展延啊舊的會展延 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10007.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10025.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
有沒有利息補貼確認一下有沒有利息補貼現在在急救室的這些有沒有利息補貼他原來貸款有沒有利息補貼所以本期就告訴你你只有叫人家再去新貸我要用什麼去貸 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10028.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10033.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
部長 國發會主委請你真正聽聽產業的聲音好不好你到底告訴我我現在在急救市的這些產業他的貸款你有沒有地息補貼你有沒有預計怎麼樣協助他們除了展 會不會展 會不會展還會不會展還會展延 會展延會展延 怎麼展延就是他如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10053.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10070.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
正常繳息的話就至少可以攢半年攢延半年 利息有沒有補貼利息的話它如果實際受災的話中小信保在某一個條件之下是可以的在某一些條件之下部長 國外諸位我拜託你我再一次拜託你 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10071.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10096.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
你去演繹 不要呼嚨我們的產業一定要把他救活所以本期要問部長啊你到底要選擇救他還是到底要選擇看他倒你要選擇哪一項當然是救他救他 把方案拿出來 謝謝不過這裡面分為兩點企業是信保基金啊私人的房貸 他在講私人的房貸企業的房貸 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10100.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10117.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
我全套私人完債不給我啦好 謝謝宏偉 現在是國倉你們有換嗎大家都沒看到在後面來 謝謝接下來我們請黃國昌委員請做詢問 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10132.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10153.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
謝謝主席 麻煩有請經濟部部長 國營事業管理司司長還有我們經貿代表 楊好 我們請三位 謝謝黃委員好部長 高關稅的事情大家都很關心不過我剛剛看到你們在回答其他委員的 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10156.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10177.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
質詢的時候看起來要問到一個具體的時間點是非常的困難就是不管是你或者是楊總代表講話都非常的有藝術但是我現在先講一個對於我們新北的鄉親比較迫切的問題我不曉得部長有沒有注意到這個週末的新聞淡北道路 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10179.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10206.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
11月27號挖斷自來水管線那造成大概淡水地區6萬5千戶左右停水這個是11月27號的事情11月27號的事情那到11月30號的時候我們的自來水公司說有逐步的覆水這個是11月30號發出的聲明到今天早上今天早上新聞媒體的報導是 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10209.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10232.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
停水超過68個小時停水戶自嘲淡水人已學會用貓砂停水68小時在現在的家庭生活當中甚至有一些營業用的店家這到底是一個什麼樣子的概念所以現在大家最關心的一件事情是請問淡水的民眾還要再等多久 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10234.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10251.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
源頭供水的部分已經在供了那現在就是壓的部分水壓的部分管線末端我現在不是問問題啦我現在是問說淡水的民眾大概很急迫的知道一件事情的答案就是還要等多久 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10252.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10269.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
你總要給人家一個時間嘛人家才可以比較務實的去規劃他接下來的生活嘛否則在昨天的時候發一個聲明說下午5點逐步覆水那但是大家每一個人都待在家裡面等啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10271.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10297.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
等水來了沒有啊等馬達聲開始響了沒有啊那一直等到今天早上還是一堆人家裡沒有水可以用那因此我才藉由這個質詢的機會可能因為一般的民眾可能打電話去問你們也沒有辦法得到個確切的答案是不是可以跟大家講說什麼時候可以修復完畢覆水成功報告委員那個淡水大概有19個里 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10298.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10319.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
那到目前為止我們統計大概有12個里的部分大概我們管縣現在還有幾戶在停水大概負水率大概將近八成將近八成你確定有八成但是因為很多是高樓那高樓的部分因為他下不是啊你八成怎麼算的啊我聽不懂啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10321.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10349.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
你八成怎麼算的啊 覆水率有八成這個是依照我們目前管網的現況那跟委員補充報告就是因為有很多大樓他必須要地下水持續滿以後才可以往上送所以這個時間會比較慢那我們現在 所以什麼時候可以完全覆水我們目前的評估大概到下午4點應該是各個大概有17個里應該都可以覆水完成 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10349.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10367.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
那還有多少沒有辦法覆水完成因為你現在在用國會寶貴國會職權的時間我聽到都還是空的啦剛剛你說有八成來來來你看一下我今天早上我今天早上收到的公告目前12月1號降壓戶數還有17508戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10374.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10393.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
那就是用水受到影響的還有17508戶然後你站在國會說覆水已經有八成這個數字是對的嗎八戶委員因為總覆數大概六萬兩千多戶啦所以呢這樣子有八成是你數學有問題還是我數學有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10397.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10426.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
這個數字喔 來來來 你上面看一個是9951另外一個是7557加起來17508戶啊我現在沒有要跟你爭執數學的事情啊你們說八成覆水客觀上這不正確大家可以去算啊但現在淡水的民眾最關心的事情是什麼一個週末 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10427.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10449.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
整整一個週末沒有水搞到今天早上你現在還沒有辦法承諾什麼時候可以覆水完成嗎什麼時候可以正常的恢復供水完成就是崁嶺跟新村的坡因為高地區比較晚一點大概凌晨2點可以全面覆水明天早上凌晨2點拜託你們 拜託你們 拜託你們 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10454.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10480.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
淡水的民眾自己都已經開始自嘲了沒有水的狀況現在是不是要學會用貓砂看了好像很細虐看了好像很細虐但是實際上面對他們來講那是影響非常重大的事情切回今天的主題我只有一個最簡單的問題因為剛剛很多委員問了很多次但我還是沒有得到一個答案 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10481.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10489.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
之前行政院說談判有相關資訊會事實報告這個是7月11號的新聞鄭麗君副院長出來講的第二個8月賴總統稱我們現在20%加既有的稅率20%加N是一個暫時性的稅率賴總統說渴望再調降 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10503.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10525.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
那從8月1號賴總統這樣講8月7號開始上路到今天12月1號了嘛那大家最關心的事情是這個暫時性的稅率還會暫時多久包委員剛剛已經有回答 是還要暫時多久 儘快嘛所以儘快有可能是兩個月也有可能是半年嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10526.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10547.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
我這樣說對不對我自己的判斷不會到半年那麼久那你的判斷會還要暫時多久我們會盡快對啊所以你說不會半年但是你會盡快我們在國會問啦我必須要老實說永遠只能得到這個問題來第五次實體談判是什麼時候舉行的 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10551.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10567.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
那個談判代表不是站在你旁邊嗎第五次實體談判是什麼時候舉行的在9月底跟10月初9月底跟10月初嗎那整整從10月到11月10月到11月就沒有任何的實體談判了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10569.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10596.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
是因為都已經談完了嗎不是 因為我們能就這個23號供應鏈它是一個非常複雜的議題我瞭解所以要做文書的往來透過線上的交換有需要第六次實體談判嗎我相信只要達成初步的共識要有第六次的實體所以還要有第六次實體談判嗎對那第六次實體談判以後到真的能夠達成協議恐怕還有一段路要走吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10598.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10621.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
因為你們今天的題我為什麼問要不要有第六次實體談判我不曉得談判總代表跟經濟部部長對你們今天所提到國會裡面的書面報告到底熟不熟悉你們在裡面跟大家描述的是我們已經歷經五次實體談判現在在做文件交換等到文件交換完了以後接下來就渴望來簽協議 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10624.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10628.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
但我看了你們文字上面的描述所描述的那個process我覺得非常的困惑 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10630.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
10654.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
第五次的實體談判是9月底10月初等於10月11月整整兩個月沒有再進行任何的實體談判透過文件的交換在12月可以達成協議這怎麼可能所以我才請教你會不會有第六次的實體談判那你現在認為應該有需要進行第六次的實體談判只是第六次的實體談判的時間點你現在也不知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
10656.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
10680.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
我們都會盡快的安排我知道都是盡快跟盡速最後一個我只想提一件事當初前部長郭志輝在8月的時候說4000億美元的投資引發軒然大波經濟部那個時候說沒有沒有沒有郭志輝不是那個意思郭志輝只是用日韓投資美國當作例子來講結果沒有想到 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
10682.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
10702.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
無獨有偶今年11月21號金融時報寫了台美協議將拍板台灣估承諾投資4000億美元真的是非常巧合8月這個金額出來的時候經濟部消毒消了半天說郭志輝只是舉例啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
10703.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
10725.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
不是4000億美元結果11月21號金融時報又講4000億美元現在4000億美元這個數字是定了嗎所有的投資金額到現在沒有議定我覺得金融時報 他是在做一個揣測因為金融時報也是揣測嘛金融時報是不是也是揣測不好意思請你針對我的問題回答金融時報是不是也是揣測那你們有沒有發函要求金融時報更正 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
10731.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
10754.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
我們有對外跟大家說明這個金額是一個揣測不是啊那你要跟金融時報講啊說你這樣寫不對啊這麼重要這麼有信譽的國際媒體怎麼可以沒有事實基礎妄自揣測要發函去跟金融時報講啊怎麼可以這樣隨便揣測這是國際知名媒體耶這是國際知名媒體耶 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
10760.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
10784.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
沒關係啊你們到時候談判出來的時候是不是4000億美元到時候盤掀開就知道了但我要提醒一件事我只要提醒一件事拜託日本5500億美元南韓3500億美元很多人在看絕對數字說台灣大概介在這兩個金額之間但我看的是佔GDP的佔比 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
10785.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
10788.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
日本5500億美元 占他們GDP是14%韓國3500億美元 占他們GDP是20%假設啦 現在我講假設 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
10796.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
10822.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
因為我們國會立法委員對到底要投資多少錢 老實講我們也不知道然後看媒體 原來是媒體亂寫經濟部部長 前經濟部部長講原來前經濟部部長只是在舉例然後也不是4000億美元所以我站在這邊 我只能假設假設是4000億美元的話占我們的GDP占比多少這樣的占比會不會太高部長會不會覺得太高 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
10825.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
10847.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
報告委員我說過我們的投資模式跟日韓是不一樣的是對完全不一樣因為日韓他是把他的外匯拿出來所以我們現在是金額未定但投資模式定了是嗎投資模式是對幾乎是不一樣我們是廠商自主性的去投資我說啦投資模式不一樣所以投資模式定了嘛只是投資金額還沒有定是這樣嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
10849.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
10870.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
如果是所謂的自主啦那如果自主的話你今天就在這邊拍胸脯講啊我們對美投資承諾的金額是零啦因為所有的投資都是自主的跟政府一點關係都沒有都是廠商樂意自己要去的跟我們的政府跟台美經貿的談判一點關係也沒有承諾的金額是零嘛好謝謝謝謝我們三位謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
10875.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
10896.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
接下来我们请王洪辉委员 请做询答谢谢好 谢谢主席请我们龚部长还有我们杨珍妮总代表好 请两位 谢谢好 部长 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
10897.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
10917.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
在川習會之前在我們經濟委員會詢問就是我們什麼時候有好消息那時候你說因為他們正在準備APEC還有就是川習會的相關事宜因為川普在4月份還要去訪問美國 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
10918.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
10940.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
所以在时间的部分我想请问一下我们有没有可能至少在4月之前明年4月之前我们的好消息可以揭晓部长来看我们的总代表因为这个最后的这个 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
10941.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
10967.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
最後的結論是要雙方是 你有沒有信心在明年川習會之前能夠確定我們台美關稅的整個架構有沒有信心有信心 我個人啦你個人有信心好 就是至少在明年4月之前因為我們等了太久那請問一下 今年底之前呢我們可不可以看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
10970.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
10984.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
今年底之前今年底我們真的會努力的緊述的看看今年底可不可以達成總代表有信心嗎今年底之前我們要努力盡力的但是這個談判是取決於雙方 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
10985.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11002.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
那另外就是刚才讲我们努力的目标请问一下我们会类似像日本的模式日本是15%而且不叠加还是韩国韩国的税率比我们低但是韩国会叠加 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11004.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11028.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
請問一下我們會比較類似像日本稅率降低不疊加還是像韓國一樣稅率降低但是人人部分會疊加報告委員我們的目標就是稅率要往下調降對等稅率往下調降而且不能夠疊加而且不能疊加所以是採取像日本的方式有信心可以達到15%嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11032.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11046.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
這個稅率往下調降是我們的目標15%是目標嗎這也是我們的目標至少15%我覺得要把變成15%以下難度應該很高吧15%以下的難度是比較高 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11047.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11068.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
這因為要看美國給各國的稅率如果要調降到一定的比其他國家高那就要好另外在這個外媒有報導而且呢看起來院長行政院院長也有證實這件事情就是我們談的架構裡面包括我們要幫我們的半導體業者要幫美國來訓練人才是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11076.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11102.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
在整個的談判架構裡面包不包含我們要幫忙美國來訓練人才報告委員我們的談判架構裡面講到台灣模式第三個就是協助我業者在美國建立這個園區取得比較好的投資的條件我們沒有談到說要幫他訓練勞工這一部分的人這一部分的 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11103.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11126.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
所以按照卓龙泰院长很自豪说这个是我们很特殊其他国家没有办法能够达到这样的工作只有因为我们有科学园区的概念所以这就是台湾模式所以我们这里面没有包含我们要帮美国的半导体业者来训练他的人才吗没有吗 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11130.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11140.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
沒有談 據我了解沒有談到這樣的內容那台積電他訓練他的員工這個是當然我們是尊重如果說需要政府怎麼樣幫忙我們可以另外再討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11141.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11169.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
但是不是政府以後我們政府跟政府之間的文件不是談判的條件之一不是談判條件之一我特別要講我們當然希望稅率能夠降低我們當然希望能夠不要疊加但是我必須說如果按照現在我們投資要4000億美金然後如果我們技術要送人也要幫他訓練然後甚至要到這個美國去建立所謂的半導體生態系 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11171.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11189.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
這叫做不折不扣的掏空台灣錢也過去 技術也過去 廠也過去所以我知道我們現在跟川普政府談非常非常的困難其他國家 日本 韓國 大多數也是這樣子但是我們跟留台灣的這樣的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11192.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11207.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
的原則一定要把握住否則的話我們不能夠接受為了稅率為了要不疊加然後最後變成拋空台灣這是好幾世代的問題非常嚴肅 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11209.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11234.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
所以刚才我听到邱志伟委员讲说好像以为立法院只会唱反调但是我觉得我们相关的原则这是我们一定要把握住的好不好我们这一代人真的不能把我们几代人累积的这些成果全部送出去谢谢好 谢谢接下来我们请洪孟凯委员请做询答 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11245.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11248.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝這些麻煩請工部長好我們再請工部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11256.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11270.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
部長好 黃委員好部長 本席也要為我們淡水鄉親請命是禮拜五無預警的這個管線破裂而造成說到現在已經將近60幾個小時我們台水公司真的非常努力我知道 因為昨天早上我也到現場去給 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11272.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11287.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
不管是禮拜六晚上我先請同仁去送飲料感謝這些台水在現場施工的同仁還是我昨天早上也到現場總工程師在現場新北市政府公務局局長在現場本席也了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11288.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11312.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
接管完畢之後還要再送水不是說馬上接完管之後我們最終端就打開水龍頭有水但重點在於是說這個資訊的落差跟掌握的速度沒有及時讓我們所有鄉親知道這第一個部分所以到現在剛剛你雖然講是說有八成恢復用水但是事實是對於沒有水的加護就是零啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11313.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11338.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
80%其實是沒有意義的有80%會用水但是我這個家庭如果說打開水龍頭沒有水那就是零他就是持續的停水這第一個部分就是要儘快儘快把這個水壓輸送到這個需要的這個好本期比較具體的來講兩個部分第一我們其實有不可抗力因素的這個水費補償辦法就是說如果說天災來的時候那該 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11340.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11349.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
停算水費的基本費的這幾天我沒有用水就沒有用嘛那這幾天現在已經確定了現在辦法出來沒 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11350.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11378.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
我們可能還是要跟我們會照我們規定來辦理所以就是可以從寬認定從禮拜五到這個禮拜一甚至今天可能都要算算入那什麼時候會公告讓我們民眾知道其實這個是最卑微請求這也是應該的是吧我們今天就來公告好今天公告就是我們不可抗力因素因為水停水而造成不可抗力 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11379.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11397.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
該家戶受影響能夠減免的部分請今天就公告讓我們淡水鄉親知道第二個部分我們也支持因為這個起因是新北市政府委託的施工廠商做淡北道路施工的時候挖破管線但現在有傳出來講說是圖資不相符 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11398.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11416.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
就是說管線在下面跟我們自來水提供的圖資不相符合造成說挖到管線但具體是怎麼樣因為眾說紛紜我想第一時間我們全力搶修停水完畢但第二個部分是要釐清責任什麼時候能夠釐清責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11417.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11438.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
報委員這個部分我們當初在這個工程新北市新工處委外設計的時候我們就有辦理會勘會勘的時候我們的同仁就有請他們依照由我們的維修警進去巡查那個管線的實際位置那不然就是要辦理探挖但是事實上 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11439.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11455.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
我們據我們目前所知是這兩個件事情都沒有做都沒有做所以這個廠商已經不是第一次囉因為我知道是說其實這次是最大規模的停水但之前已經有兩次零星小規模的一個狀況不管是挖到管線還是說造成我們的這個鄉親的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11459.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11484.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
那這如果說都沒有做 那事情很嚴重喔我覺得應該要由自來水公司這邊也要好好的督促因為責任要釐清我現在對鄉親來講家庭的生活影響已經是事實那我們要釐清責任所以說我現在要要求的是說那到底責任歸屬在哪邊新北市政府委託的施工團隊有沒有依照相關的施工SOP |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11485.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11512.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
還是說我們提供的物資 圖資有錯誤那這個部分 釐清我們什麼時候可以釐清來 部長這個是不是我們經濟部有一個管卸小組我們會儘快來那如果真的有需要我們會請台水公司去做求償好 那就麻煩因為本席完全支持新北市府如果說要這樣的話要依法依照相關規定跟廠商來求償那如果說台水公司在這個過程裡面有 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11512.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11536.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
搶修而造成的費用該球場也要球場我們代位球場不能由到時候納稅人買單嗎好那這個部分一個禮拜內是不是可以跟新北市府來做一個釐清因為現在在搶修當中搶修完畢之後對搶修完畢之後看我們儘快就看看兩個禮拜到三個禮拜好那就麻煩好那第三最後一個部分部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11538.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11551.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
淡水新市鎮現在20萬人口就淡水20萬人居住兩條管線進入到淡水的自來水一條是佛舊市區這次沒有破所以舊市區這次停水沒有受影響一條是佛新市鎮 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11552.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11572.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
這一次就是破到這一個主動脈的新市鎮的管線那我們也就看啊原來淡水地區20萬人這樣子是非常脆弱的一個用水那也因此本協講說現在在淡北道路的一個工程裡面是不是能夠延逸加設另外一條管線給淡海新市鎮的一個鄉親那或者是 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
11573.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
11600.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
過去我們其實有淡海新市鎮另外一個計畫就是增加蓄水池5萬噸的蓄水池我想我們自來水公司的同仁應該知道本期在講什麼過去其實有研議過那現在只有一個3萬5千噸的蓄水池在淡海新市鎮那但是我們之前有考慮備援因為如果說新市鎮人口越來越多的話應該要增設一個5萬噸的蓄水池那依照這一次的一個臨時60幾個小時的停水狀況是不是能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
11601.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
11622.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
我們最快速度來啟動我們看是要新增一個管線做預備或者是5萬噸的熱蓄水池計畫那我們後續再來做一個協調可以嗎我們會盡快評估出來好那這個一個月內評估出來那本席也會協助來跟新北市府如果說需要用地的部分需要 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
11623.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
11638.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
這個工程的介面整合部分我們一起來協調但最重要的是把這一次的停水當成是一個教訓那未來不要再發生那最重要的就是那我們就要有備援計畫我們來做 這樣可以嗎好 謝謝部長 謝謝接下來我們請賴時報委員請做詢答 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
11653.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
11660.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
謝謝主席以及各位先進有請經濟部的工部長還有總談判代表 楊總談判代表請兩位 謝謝先請教 您好 先請教部長我們確定要用核電了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
11676.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
11699.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
現在是啟動自主安全檢查啟動了對啟動那他們如果正常一般是一年半對但是還是要跟希望啦因為還是要跟原廠就是西屋公司趕快他們有時間跟我們配合所以那個時間點就是我們自己當然會很快啦但是外國的廠商要跟我們配合我們也盡量希望趕快 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
11700.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
11721.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
所以我們可不可以講就是媒體報導的最樂觀2027年可以重啟河山是不是可以這樣講嗎沒有沒有可以這樣講嗎自主檢查完成自主檢查完成要把這個報告送到河安會那河安會會省多久這個可能是河安會一般來講半年到一年可以了吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
11721.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
11735.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
那我們還是要尊重他們是嘛所以你現在一年半從現在算一年半現在2025年底了嘛那一年半就是2027然後所以差不多2027的年底或者2028剛剛好附上這個這個要總統大選喔兩邊票都要囉變這樣子囉 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
11741.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
11768.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
好像不會咧什麼叫好像不會2027不會還是什麼因為2027我們送出這個自主安全檢查碼但是核安會還是要審查他可能花的時間我們就不曉得會多少所以他如果只要他可以了你們就可以啟動是不是這個意思他同意我們當然就可以啟動一般過去多久 核安會一般都剩多久如果從國外的經驗來講的話一般是 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
11770.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
11789.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
一年半甚至有更長所以一年半我們現在來講的話就變成說現在開始就一年半時間自主檢驗所以就是2027的年終再加一年半那等於是2028的年底囉差不多這樣子這是順利的狀況順利的狀況好那麼這個有關於關稅談判這個請教楊總代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
11796.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
11824.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
有沒有談到進口的部分是不是要我們美國進來的包括農產品包括汽車全部零關稅有沒有這樣子提到報告委員美國這次談判希望各國能夠大量的進口他的農產品所以他要求所有的國家都是大部分的產品應該要放在降稅的清單上面對嘛 就是是不是零關稅 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
11825.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
11826.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
所以現在幾乎可以確定汽車的進口從美國進來的汽車關稅會大幅降低不排除變零我這樣這個statement對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
11847.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
11864.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
可以嗎因為依照國際管理還沒有簽協定簽署之前不過我們沒有辦法對外說明對嘛 可是這個方向是往這個方向嘛王智南說所有的產品項目確實是大家討論的對 所以這個農產品啊包括汽車這個我要提醒楊總代表這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
11866.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
11888.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
這個農業要受保護喔 全世界WTO在談的時候 農業基本上都是各國保護的對象我們的農民動輒幾十萬人對不對 幾萬人幾十萬人這個要他們的生計要保護喔不然你政府怎麼補貼呢 是不是那個其實一樣啊 其實你全部零關稅要一次到位呢那個這裡面零組建廠 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
11891.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
11911.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
林竹電廠有30萬人這個東西都是你要去考慮的要不要一次降為零那個我請教部長汽車一次降為零對我們的產業有沒有影響報告委員因為這個談判還沒有確定我們也不曉得現在是多少但是我同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
11913.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
11934.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
汽車對台灣的產業的確就像您講包括零組件產業還是有30萬就業人口所以我們還是要支持我們的汽車產業的發展所以可以這樣講說如果美國要我們就給他大幅調降但是不會調於零不過因為過去的美國車進口到台灣來是比較少的因為大家習慣了未來就會多了在美國製造日本廠日本車又進來了我跟你講 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
11939.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
11966.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
所以他進來有可能不是取代我們國產車是取代其他國家的進口車不是美國車喔是在美國生產的日本車台灣人還是很喜歡的喔但是他會取代從日本進口進來的這個日本車啦那再請教那個楊總代表我們現在馬上又要400億美金要跟他買武器啊這些要不要算入我們的貿易額裡面要不要算 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
11967.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
11987.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
报告委员我刚有报告说在进出恐贸易统计里面我们没有包括武器的部分其实真正讲是军售没有商售有但是现在几乎都是军售应该这么讲了报告委员很多的商售现在是试单给我们国内的厂商现在 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
11988.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12001.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
但是你剛剛回到其他委員提到的是不是兩位跟隨回答一下我就結束了就是確定要對美投資換關稅的條件及不要疊加這樣的講法對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12004.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12029.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
我想是整體的談判不是這樣單一的數我們關心的就是投資投資多少另外一件事投資是包括在關稅談判關稅非關稅還有經濟安全貿易環境投資商業條件那我再直接一點美國有沒有要求我們投資換關稅的降低有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12030.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12040.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
我還是要講這整體的談判是包括投資項目是在商業條件裡面也是在整體的環境裡面最後一小點那個部長你剛有提到說我們跟韓國不一樣不會動用外匯存底那廠商怎麼過去呢廠商錢怎麼過去他把台幣換成美金還是要找央行啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12052.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12071.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
他是自有資金啊還是要換美金啊不是政府拿出我們的這個預算出來但是我們還在換匯啊你美金還是會減少啊你的美金就送到美國去了啊這個帳是這樣算的啊哪裡有人這樣講說這個廠商給你去那政府幹什麼當然是政府一致談的啊即便廠商過去也是要政府談 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12078.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12099.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
才是對啊 對不對所以這裡面來講4千億看起來就差不多板上釘釘喔你們也不敢否認喔沒有沒有這個才是 我再強調一遍現在來講的話這個這樣談下來我們實在是圓大頭日本的GDP是我們五倍他只要投資5500億我們只有他五分之一我們就投資4千億這是哪門子的生意啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12100.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12125.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
這樣談下來的話 如果真的投資四千億 喪權辱國啊沒有 廠商他是基於他客戶上訂單的需求而且他過去也會賺錢啊 是這樣的啊為什麼韓國都不會這樣講 過去也賺錢韓國他們不是這樣的模式啊韓國說只要三千五百去的話 他們就垮掉了 你都不敢這樣講他們是拿出他們一筆錢出來給美國政府去操作這個金額 我們不是欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12127.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12139.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
現在沒有時間跟你扯這麼多了反正你們如果同意實現利益就這樣子然後還要進口農產品免關稅然後進口汽車免關稅那是到底上千入股了好 謝謝謝謝賴執法委員 謝謝接下來我們請徐宇珍委員請做詢答 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12159.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12166.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
谢谢主席我们请经济部工部长还有国发会业主委及杨总代表我们请三位谢谢 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12173.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12197.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
部長好 主委還有楊總代表我想其實從4月份到現在每一次談到關稅的議題大概我們聽到都會是這是現在談判中不方便來透露保密協定國安的這個因素但是我們每次都可以在外國媒體得到一些訊息包括說我們這次講的說要投資4千億的美元還有要以這個訓練 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12199.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12209.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
美勞工來換取普降關稅請問一下楊總代表你們是不是曾經就這個部分跟美方提出正式的抗議針對洩漏資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12212.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12232.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
報告委員因為這是報界自己的報導所以我們認為這是報界他們的 報界都很厲害喔他們的報導好像一向還都蠻準確的喔那針對這個部分我們不這麼認為而且而且他們現在各國都在看我們的最後的最定案的金額所以到處都會有一些揣測 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12233.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12258.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
好那最後定案的金額剛剛其實我想從早上到現在很多委員都有提到嘛那楊總代表也提到說這個因為在談判中所以沒有辦法對大家說明但是我想請教你因為我們今天是在國會備詢所以希望也不要有所隱瞞那我問你的如果是有這樣的一個狀況也請您告訴我們正確的訊息比如說也是根據這個路透社所說美國正與台灣洽談讓台企擴大投資美國 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12260.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12271.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
提供技術培訓當地人才這個訊息正不正確這個剛剛跟拱部長我們都說明了這個並不是在我們台灣模式裡面的條件 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12271.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12295.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
我剛講是台企擴大投資美國這個有錯嗎台灣企業是依照他們的國際佈局自主性他們會去做所以說不是在你們所謂的台企要到美國投資4千億美元的這樣子的一個評估裡是嗎沒有在你們談判的內容裡嗎我還是要講那個4千億是一個揣測的數字那如果不是4千億是會更多還是更少 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12296.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12317.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
為什麼要這樣的數字 因為當然我想它是以每日韓的這個中間的一個平均值那這個4000以你們現在談判的那樣 我只問你會更多還是更少我還是要講這到現在為止這個數字是不對的不對 對 所以我才問你是更多還是更少我沒有要你說出正確的數字 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12318.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12345.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
因為我不知道他的4千億到底是怎麼說話因為如果按照日本跟韓國是不一樣的不會有這種基本跟韓國是他們直接投資我們現在是台企到美國投資所以說卓文泰院長也說了台灣模式就是要把科學園區的模式這個移植到美國所以請問一下這是不是已經繼承的事實因為那天應該工部長也有在也有陪著院長出席他在對台灣工商團體的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12346.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12363.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
表示說現在是由台美的政府G2G的合作由美方提供土地行政便利與優惠台企自行佈局政府提供金融保證是這樣嗎 請問部長對 大致上的方向是這樣對 那所以我們已經完成協議文本的草案了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12364.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12386.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
還沒有 就是這個文本是說大家大的方向已經有差不多的共識但是這個wording要怎麼寫這個可能還是要交換意見那既然大家都已經有共識可是到現在國會事實上都還完全毫不知情因為這個還沒有拍板最後的這個總結會議院長是在跟工商團體說明就反而沒有跟國會這邊來說明而且針對這個部分我也要請這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12390.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12417.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
那個部長看一下下面這個表格就是我們現在要讓我們的台企去美國這個設廠我們可以看到我們的科學園區的模式是由中央來主導所以不管土地取得基礎建設行政窗口稅務的優惠都是中央一聲令下我們面對管理局就一切沒問題可是美國的設廠模式它是地方分權所以說台商會面臨的風險有什麼需要自行整地變更地幕開發石層廠 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12418.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12445.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
還有承諾可能跳砲 比如說鴻海的威州案還有經費也可能需要協商還有建造環評安檢 層層的卡關以及需要分別談判 而且常設有追回條款如果我們的廠商 成如我們這個國家的安排到那邊去設廠了那請問一下 遇到這樣的一個狀況的時候是政府會依照我們的科學園區的模式來去跟美國的政府談判還是我們台商要單打獨鬥去解決這些問題呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12446.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12475.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
我们就是不希望台商去那边单打独斗所以为什么我们政府要出面跟美国政府有一个对口所以部长的意思就是说不会有他们到美国去单独面对设厂模式而是会由中央由我们的政府来去主导让台商避免面对这样的风险我们不是主导我们是支持他们协助他们但如果我刚讲的如果他们在设厂有遇到这样的问题不管像是鸿海也遇到这样的问题其实台积电也多少遇到这样的问题 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12475.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
12503.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
那他們都是大企業喔他們有很強的公關法務部門那針對我們的這些台商有些可能沒有那麼大的企業他們要怎麼去面對國家會協助嗎會國家會協助那也希望說大家要信守這個承諾一定真的我們要去這個美國投資的時候也要讓我們台商絕對不能面臨這些風險是是是的好 謝謝那我們在這邊宣告我們今天中午不休息等到我們議事處理結束再結束 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
12504.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
12528.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
再休息來我們現在繼續請許副會委員請做詢答謝謝主席有請我們龔部長跟我們葉主委好我們請兩位謝謝徐委員好部長好主委好 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
12529.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
12546.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
我想這個台美的關稅的問題當然引發我們國內百工百業的一個關切那尤其我們這個未來這個產業跟我們的所謂的這個農業的一個變遷會不會影響到我們台灣這個鄉親的權益我想這是我們許多人關心的一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
12547.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
12569.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
那我知道這個從賴總統也好還是行政院各部會都有針對這個國力十大新動能然後還有AI新十大建設甚至我們針對農業有提出180億的一個輔導措施那請教部長跟主委我們目前針對這樣的一個輔導措施你們有沒有掌握到底這個輔導措施有沒有發揮一定的功效 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
12573.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
12586.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
經濟部的部分大概編列這個特別預算有460億那從這個8月7號開始因為我們用以晚計到現在已經開始實施了那現在大概有2000多個案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
12587.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
12614.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
已经开始申请那我们尽快把它往前推进有神医的就感谢神医没没没我们现在北中南东我们也去跟各个工协会都有说明会除了这个之外我们也会有一个辅导团主动的去北中南东各个实地的去协助他们有在追踪这样的一个辅导成效吗有有有是的那我想除了这个经济部之外主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
12615.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
12631.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
针对我们这个国会发布的这个10月份的景气对策信号当然我们是希望我们国内的产业发展能够持续的向上那您也有特别提到说这个我们已经掌握到台美关税的情形最坏的情形已经过去了目前确实是这个样子吗 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
12632.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
12652.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
目前就是說廠商其實有一些廠商其實已經慢慢的在適應這樣一個關稅的狀況那他自己本身也在做產業的轉型譬如說像工具企業者的話其實有少部分的工具企業者其實他自己本身在做轉型所以他目前的情況是往客製化的方向走 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
12653.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
12666.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
所以工具企業的其實有反應就是說雖然美國那邊的那個關稅還是比較高可是他慢慢的在做一些轉型然後做客製化那單有一些從那個歐就歐盟那邊其實有在接一些單過來 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
12667.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
12691.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
不過我想說因為我們目前的暫時性關稅是20%那當然對我們的這個整個出口也好產值也好甚至這個工商業的影響我想都會有大家都在關注那當然就我們來看的話我們屏東市農漁大縣那未來這個部分我們也要求我們的相關單位應該持續來關注這樣的一個議題那另外我想主委請回 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
12692.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
12710.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
部长我想上个礼拜经济部核定了这个核二核三再运转的一个可行性的一个计划那我们之前一直提到包含所谓的核飞料的问题最终处置长的问题还有社会共识的问题那目前不晓得经济部如何去看待这些的一些状况 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
12711.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
12732.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
河岸的問題我們現在就是開始自主安全檢查那自主安全檢查就還要請這個原廠來跟我們共同檢查完以後還要做國際的peer review就是這個英文叫就是同儕審查那審查通過以後確定以後然後才會把這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
12734.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
12746.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
我們自主安全檢查的這個報告送到這個核安會核安會會按照他的這個專業再審查這樣子安全上是有這樣幾道的程序 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
12747.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
12764.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
OK那我再請教一下經濟部曾經說過未來要做減煤蒸汽展綠非核的這個一個訴求那會不會因為核能發電廠的這個運轉在評估的計畫之後我們這幾個能源政策會有所調整跟變化 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
12765.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
12791.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
减煤增技还是会持续的进行当中再生能源的发展也会持续的进行不会有排挤的效果不会啦但是我们也一直担心说这个绿能一直被污名化之后那现在我们包含经济部也好农业部也好我们也期待能够未来真的要展开一个好的一个辅导措施尤其在这个我们相关的产业都需要用电的状况之下我们都会支持好的 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
12791.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
12806.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
能源政策啦但是未來我想對恆春半島的居民來講核能發電未來的安全性才是重中之重的工作那這邊那個曾董事長我想這個我們核三桶的同仁也很關心這個議題啦那未來這部分怎麼樣去強化這個議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
12808.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
12823.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
跟委員報告就是說河山廠現在的狀況我們還是因為他雖然停機但是我們還是維持因為安全的必要我們的整個相關的工作都還都維持著那至於您提到安全的部分我想說 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
12824.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
12842.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
安全一定是河南電廠運轉的最前提的要件甚至他停止運轉以後他的安全也還是我們的首要的前提案件要件但是現在聽起來好像河山廠是因為這個剛剛處理之後所以被評估成最可能馬上可以恢復的 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
12845.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
12868.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
應該不是這個樣子就我們在評估的時候說明的狀況是說因為它現在因為它的燃料池有足夠的空間所以它現在爐心裡面沒有燃料棒所以河島區的安檢是相對於核二來講它可以比較提早進行所以我想這個未來我們也會持續監督這樣的一個機制是的那大家一起來努力真的把我們的台灣的能源政策好好的來把它做好了謝謝好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
12874.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
12901.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
謝謝 接下來我們請蔡議員謝謝主席那我們是不是有請經濟部鞏部長還有我們台電董事長好 請台電董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
12904.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
12920.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
蔡委好部長好部長因為現在未來產業的一個佈局很重要的就是水跟電我想要先就電的部分來請教一下部長因為嘉義現在台積電已經 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
12922.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
12949.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
它的先進封裝廠第一廠已經專機完成所以現在大概就是要趕兩年後可以量產那未來台積電還會有第二個廠在明年也會裝機所以我們現在要確保整個電力的供應是無虞的這件事情事實上就會牽扯到說現在馬籌後產業園區在那邊要蓋的一個比較中型以上的一個變電所那它變電所的進度到底是如何呢那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
12951.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
12957.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
跟委員報告就算你如果提到是家科啦家科的部分那個我們其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
12958.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
12985.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
因为要因应半导体产业的快速发展我们现在基本上都是先临时供电就是一些临时的变电设备都先处理了因为室内变电站开的时间会比较长那马筹的部分其实我们有比较早提早布局如果说马筹后的厂商有需要用电那我们一定会想办法提早供电那至于我们要办的DS就是那个 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
12986.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13008.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
配電變電站 董事長我想你知道啦整個供電是整個區域的供電所以馬籌後的興建起來事實上它可以它是可以涵蓋是很大的一個區域的甚至說未來可能鋪子傳統的變電所它也會達到它的一個歷史的一個任務它可能就會結束了嘛那關鍵都還是在於馬籌後的這一個變電所什麼時候可以完成 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13010.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13033.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
董事長你跟我說一下看明確的時間我們盡量在趕啦因為一個如果是室內型的變電站時間真的會要比較長那我們希望看2030能不能夠提早在2030年底以前把它給做起來但這個對我們的同仁來講要求是比較嚴格的沒關係 我覺得說這個東西雖然要求嚴格 但是很壞啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13035.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13051.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
因為整個區域用電而且未來嘉義的產業的佈局都是在這裡跟委員報告地方政府如果支持我們蓋DSES其實台電公司都會盡全力快速的來趕工 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
13052.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13069.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
因为我们现在是有些主要是遇到有些DSES没办法取得用地或是没办法变更来或是拿到建造来建董事长但是我们嘉义还好因为我们嘉义是用产业园区的土地没错所以相对只要有支持我们都会加速来盖 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13070.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13098.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
對 我們這邊相對跟你們之間大家互動是良好的那應該整個速度就加速來著是的 是的 好不好好 那董事長可以先回那我再來問水的問題水的問題就會涉及到了接下來嘉義縣的一個海淡廠那現在海淡廠的一個還在環境影響評估中那水的問題可能未來這個海淡廠要提供很很重要的一個水的供應那這個海淡廠目前 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13099.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13120.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
推估是2032年才會開始供水每天的供水最大量是10萬公噸那想要請教部長 這個進度都沒有變嗎我請同仁說明一下好不好我再check一下好不好進度沒有變嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13122.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13148.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
好那可是我要跟部長說一個狀況我目前掌握的訊息是說未來因為我們這個海淡產是會在布袋三港外圍去做填海造陸部長這部分你清楚嗎對可是現在卻把填海造陸的成本要把它算入為未來這一個海淡產它的興建成本所以可能就會影響到未來水費的問題那問題就很大了 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
13150.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
13167.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
部長因為這是兩件事 填海造陸是為了我們地方要增加腹地所以那是填海造陸你不能說把填海造陸因為未來我們海淡廠就希望在這個填海造陸的地方興建海淡廠所以填海造陸的成本也是海淡廠的成本 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
13169.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
13186.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
保證 你聽我的意思嘛所以這個東西可能你要幫我們回去可能要看一下該離新還是要離新當然是 還沒發生啦還沒發生可是我現在有聽到這樣的狀況那可能以後大家就卻步了啊說哇 那個成本怎麼忽然間暴增這麼多 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13186.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13201.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
是是是因為填海造陸他是大概規劃了十幾公頃十幾公頃的海灘場也沒用這麼大所以你把填海造陸的成本算在未來的費用的計算那這件事不合理是是是好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13202.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
13227.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
第二個我再來跟就是說現在有談到產業園區這個用電的升級所以我們希望在產業園區或是科學園區去推動公共的一個儲能去有這個儲能的一個補助那科學園區會試辦那未來產業園區那我想要跟部長來建議的就是說事實上我們知道未來整個因應整個AI的一個發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
13229.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
13256.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
那AI是需要用大量的電的所以這一個如果我們在產業園區不能由經濟部直接來盤整一個地方然後由經濟部我們的產業園區我們的管理局直接就來經營儲能有沒有辦法這樣現在我不曉得因為管理局他現在賦予他的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
13258.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
13286.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
任務啦沒有這塊啦我意思是說你記得我們覺得要補助手上每天去辦儲能我覺得說產業園區如果直接可以用更就是說我們乾脆更積極一點我們直接在產業園區盤整適當的地方做儲能設備那我們可以在離風用電的時候把電力儲起來然後在尖峰用電的時候再給產業園區的商家去使用這些電的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
13287.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
13314.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
事實上你只要規劃妥當的話這件事對於整個產業園區用電的效能會有大幅的一個精進部長我覺得這部分你們可以斟酌一下那我們來思考一下好不好跟這個園區就是討論一下如果可以這樣做的話我們就來試辦看看可以試辦看看嘛因為這樣的話對於整個用電對不對有時候他沒用電的時候我們就讓他去欠電啊是是是環境一樣都是使用者付費啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
13315.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
13337.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
這一些需要用到 尖峰時候需要用到多一點電的商家他自然就要付費啊只是說這樣的一個設備由我們產業園區區自己來管理 是好不好因為這樣量比較會大 除了東西事實上有時候都需要量體是要一定的 好不好部長可以先回 趙委再給我一分鐘那我要請國發會主委請國發會主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
13342.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
13369.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
委員好主委事實上我要延續剛剛這個富奎委員有去詢問的因為這一次關稅的影響經濟部之外事實上農業部是有的那我們有編列180億但是我要跟主委講事實上我們大家都忽略一件事就是說這一次的關稅事實上對隨產品尤其是出口到過去出口不管是出口到美國或其他國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
13371.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
13386.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
對於有出口的水產品傷害非常的大這個傷害大是為什麼呢是因為在關稅不穩定的時候很多事實上在進口水產品的他家都大量進了他就那時候都已經滿倉了啦他都進滿了那進滿了後現在這些水產品開始回賣了 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
13394.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
13414.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
抓 他們不需要你也知道說水產品那些東西你如果不買到 它是要繼續持續持續持續你像說鱸魚鱸魚的生長大概是六個月八個月牠如果到六、八歲就不是它適當的一個規格所以你現在鱸魚你現在沒出沒出 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
13416.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
13444.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
他超過規格後 哇 最慘的是包括很多一些大型的商家你像Costco他就說 哇 你這個漁民你這隻魚已經過大隻了太大隻了 啊不是 他們要餓了所以就會造成惡性循環不只是鱸魚喔 我覺得未來我們台灣釣我們的烏龜魚會有這樣的狀況喔這個是有一點 因為之前的囤貨造成整個水產品它現在是一個供應非常不順的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
13445.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
13468.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
然後我要跟主委直接建議啦這個時候要解決這個問題勒事實上就是要想辦法最快的時間先去化現在口袋裡面這些東西所以可能你要我們現在有特別預算嘛180億來協助這些農水產品的話可能就是說國軍可以吃鱸魚啊鱸魚這麼健康學校營養午餐來吃一下鱸魚啊過去 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
13470.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
13497.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
因為這個很貴 漏魚是省比較貴的 沒機會我們現在有特別預算 來去化讓孩子吃 健康 營養 到這個讚的肥腸 這樣有什麼不好有跟委員報告 其實我們有針對那一個農漁會有在推所謂的冷鏈設備的新建跟升級這個也可以把部分的那一些庫存的這些 沒有賣出去的可以把它冷凍起來 然後做一些加工處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
13498.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
13509.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
那是網加工方面但是我要跟主委講的就是說我看到的是因為他們沒有辦法銷售結果就是變成說養到過季了養到過季了養到過季了養到過季了養到過季了養到過季了養到過季了養到過季了養到過季了養到過季了養到過季了養到過季了 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
13533.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
13555.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
謝謝 接下來我們請林楚英委員 林楚英 林楚英委員不在現場我們請馬文君委員 馬文君 馬文君委員不在現場我們請葉元之委員請做詢問我請那個談判代表 經濟部長好 請兩位 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
13561.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
13579.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
先請教一下談判代表那個我先問一下代表因為我們現在很多訊息我們都是從外媒得知然後政府機關雖然有來報告但是講的都非常有限我先問一個問題如果到時候代表談出來的結果國人不接受民意反彈很大立法院也不通過那結果會怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
13582.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
13611.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
我想這個問題我們最重要是我們談判的結果是對國人是好的對產業是好的那是你認為嘛你是要接受監督你當然說自己好啊如果說大家不覺得好如果輿論沸騰反對那來得及嗎如果我們跟美方達成一個共識之後這個會馬上跟國會報告但是如果我們不接受的話美方他可能就要回到原來的稅率了 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
13612.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
13632.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
就是說你談完之後你會來國會報告那如果國會覺得你談一賽太爛了然後民意也覺得非常爛然後大家就會說不行然後你就會跟美國講說我們不接受然後重談是這樣嗎我想美國對這一方面很在意因為這一次他的目標就是要降低他們的貿易區域回答我的問題啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
13635.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
13655.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
談判的結果是他要給我們對等降稅然後呢不疊加當然是對等不要繞圈圈啦因為我們現在當然是希望說談到關稅低嘛對不對最好15如果是15%就跟日本韓國歐盟都一樣嘛然後不要疊加嘛但是是看我們要付出什麼代價嘛那如果我們付出的代價 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
13658.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
13678.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
讓輿論認為說這個代價好像超過我們的想像那大家不接受那來得及嗎你會再去跟美國講重談嗎我是問一個這個問題啦程序性的問題啦程序性的問題在這一方面就是會重談嘛美國是要我們執行他才會給我們剛剛講的優惠性的這些代價所以就變成說你變白談了再去重談嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
13678.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
13702.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
否則他就不會執行的嘛就是這樣嘛所以我為什麼問這個問題呢就是因為其他國家都會適當揭露嘛因為他們會一方面了解民意的看法一方面跟美方談判有的時候國內的意見有成為對外談判的一個籌碼但我們台灣這邊就完全避而不談所以就是一翻兩瞪眼要嘛就是跟國會或是民眾講說你就接受不然就要重談要嘛就是說這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
13704.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
13730.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
不然怎麼辦我覺得這個其實是蠻不負責的這跟之前民進黨自己要求什麼兩岸談服貿一定要公平公正公開啊什麼那個是背道而馳的啦那沒關係我們就先姑且相信你們談的是國人會接受那現在一直講說一個台灣模式我覺得你們講的很具體但大家聽得非常模糊我想請教一下按照日本韓國他們的做法是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
13731.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
13746.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
要降關稅可以你日本韓國你要投資我多少金額或者是要跟我採購多少金額是這樣的模式在台灣不是嘛你們意思這樣對不對所以我們是用G2G跟他們的模式不一樣他們是要看採購多少投資多少才能決定降關稅我們不用是這個意思嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
13748.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
13776.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
我們的模式是依照我們在整個談判裡面的最佳的模式就是希望得到最好也協助業者在外面不要講空話啦不要講空話我一直想什麼叫台灣模式嘛日本韓國是說投資多少金額比如說日本投資5500億金額或者是採購多少東西換得關稅下降嘛那我們不是用這樣的模式嘛我們是用比如說什麼G2G啊協助美國的什麼產業形成聚落我們是用這種模式嘛對吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
13777.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
13790.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
是吧 部長是這樣嗎那為什麼我們採購的都不算我們不是有軍購嗎韓國也把軍購納入就是降低關稅的籌碼之一歐盟也把軍購納入降低關稅的籌碼之一為什麼台灣就不能納入 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
13792.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
13816.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
我們在談判裡面有商業機會包括投資及採購但是我看其他國家有些大部分也是沒有把軍購放在他的有啊歐盟就有啊韓國也有啊為什麼我們不拿這個好第二個具體問一下台灣模式是說我們廠商到美國去去投資形成產業聚落像科學園區那樣請問一下你承諾美國多少產值承諾美國多少產值 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
13822.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
13848.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
這是部長回答還是代表回答沒有這樣的承諾沒有承諾產值所以我們到時候講一講跟他們說不好意思我們的廠商都沒有要過去零產值美國也接受嗎不是我們當然有跟企業界有互相的盤點跟溝通企業界有這樣的意願以後我們才協助他們他們如果完全沒有意願如果我們完全沒有意願所以到時候假設我們的廠商都沒有意願 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
13849.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
13872.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
然後都沒有過去 美國接受嗎沒有 我們已經有做過溝通了所以現在是 你現在計算是多少產值要過去多少要過去這個等談判完以後再向委員報告又是談判完 不是你這個什麼都不能講所以其實你也是有承諾一個產值不是 這個也牽涉到所以其實你也是有承諾一個產值 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
13873.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
13891.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
那就不用騙了就是你也是告訴他們講說我們用G2G的方式軍購那些都不算但是我們承諾你我們多少廠商要過去投資然後會幫你創造多少就業機會跟多少產值可不可以換得我們的關稅下降是這樣嘛 模式是這樣嘛沒錯吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
13892.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
13910.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
還是要廠商有意願我們才會協助廠商有沒有意願也是你說算了有時候你也會經濟部那麼廠商多少也會怕政府不會啦我們都協助廠商第二你不能講第三我提醒一下不能把說產業外移都講得好像這麼的美好 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
13911.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
13931.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
如果產業萬一之後沒好的話我們台灣何必希望其他國家人到我們這邊投資呢因為到我們這邊投資可以增加我們的產值可以提高我們就業機會嘛所以我們的公司去國外投資多多少少也會影響到我們這裡的就業機會跟產值嘛所以立足台灣是第一步嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
13931.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
13958.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
才有第二步當然啦不是啦他本來可以在台灣多設一個廠嘛現在就配合政府政策就到美國去設廠嘛而且到美國美國設廠也不見得有利嘛台積電現在亞利桑那州獲利就減少啦但是還是在獲利就減少啦但是還是在獲利啦但是減少那頭CP值嘛算CP值嘛再問一個啦那現在剛剛很多委員在問齁那個路透社有報導說台積電要去美國幫忙幫忙訓練勞工但是你們否認嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
13961.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
13983.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
因為談判沒有談到這個東西今天我剛剛看了那個前英特爾的執行長說啊他說就算台灣的有些產業移到美國去生產晶片也沒辦法降低美國對台灣晶片的依賴啦除非經濟版圖位移他說除非做到經濟版圖位移不然你知道嗎你有看到這個新聞嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
13984.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
14007.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
但是我不知道所謂的經濟版圖只有幾家公司去沒用啦最好是整個產業鏈移過去啦所以美國會加大力道啦那我就請教一下現在挪威人到英特爾去美國是英特爾的大股東吧最大股東政府10%所以美國政府其實影響到英特爾 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
14008.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
14033.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
那些挪威人假設帶著台灣的2奈米的機密到了英特爾去認知我看到英特爾很歡迎他很歡迎他加入啦很歡迎他加入那請教一下我們現在政府有沒有去跟美國談就說這個事情不道德喔因為我們已經在司法偵辦當中我們在司法偵辦當中我們不知道他帶什麼機密去請美國給我一個承諾假設他有帶機密去的話你不能用 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
14035.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
14052.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
我們現在很有善要幫你形成產業聚落可能你未來是我們台灣的最大競爭者但是我們還是願意可是對於這個機密到那邊去政府態度是什麼有沒有跟美國政府講你不能用可不可以靜待司法調查之後大家再來談有沒有這個態度 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
14052.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
14070.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
我相信第一個我們司法已經調查了用國安法或者是那台積電也用營業秘密法提告了那我相信就是說美國企業他也知道因為提告可能有官司上的一些情形那他 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
14071.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
14095.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
不是啦 部長你都說你相信你能夠預測川普嗎你不能說你相信 我說你有沒有去交涉這件事情他的CEO有另外說明 他說他們沒有用到相關機密性的這個技術所以你覺得你覺得你相信嗎所以政府就不用做任何事情就我們完全相信人性本善 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
14096.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
14122.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
我完全相信川普但川普從頭到尾都認為是台灣偷走美國的晶片沒有啊 現在在司法調查啊司法調查是現在針對這個個案調查我現在是說在同時能不能做防弊的動作嘛就去跟美國交涉說你這個就算有的話你不能用否則的話他用了你現在調查出來有什麼意義勒你只是對他個人的所謂的懲罰而已嘛但對台灣產業的機密的外移政府做了什麼嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
14124.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
14147.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
我們再請行政部門再給委員說明清楚因為你們大概這個回答的都雞同鴨講他主要是要請教委員請教的是說我們政府在這個過程當中有協助去了解什麼有沒有跟美方去洽談那你們現在所說的對啊因為美國政府是英特爾的股東嘛請會後再跟委員來說明清楚好嗎好 謝謝好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
14153.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
14178.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
谢谢 接下来我们中嘉宾委员中嘉宾中嘉宾委员不在现场我们现在登记发言的除了不在现场之外其余的军语发言完毕询答结束由委员陈冠廷委员徐欣怡委员张家俊委员所提书面资料列入记录刊登公报书面质询及未及答复的部分请相关单位于一周之内以书面答复或者是并 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
14179.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
14205.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
副职本会那委员另外要求期限的我们请也要从其所定那今天我要谢谢所有的行政部门以及我们媒体朋友还有我们的议事组人员我们特别针对于关税的这个议题是全民产业大家都非常关心特别指出两件事情请行政部门部长请行政部门在我们一直强调台湾模式那我们的 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
14206.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
14228.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
台商如果到那边去投资的时候我们的保护要怎么样保护1952年在我们的经济部的网站里头都有说明美国到我们台湾来的时候来投资我们有一个协议保护协议针对于美国人美国的资金到台湾来我们有签了一个1952年的协议保护协议那我方 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
14229.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
14258.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
我们如果台湾到美国去那我们有没有保护协议有没有这个议题请你们列入那第二个双重课税的问题这也是产业非常非常关心的刚刚因为那个杨总代表谈论的是你们在努力当中所以本席也特别综合大家宝贵的意见这两项也请相关单位你们完整的书面资料来复制给我们的本席跟我们的经济委员会 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
14258.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
14261.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
好 我們的開會今天謝謝大家辛苦了 散會 |