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陳昭姿 @ 第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第21次全體委員會議
| Start Time | End Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00:00,000 | 00:00:01,500 | 同學我加號謝謝 |
| 00:00:01,500 | 00:00:02,700 | 那有請石部長 |
| 00:00:02,700 | 00:00:03,700 | 有請石部長 |
| 00:00:06,700 | 00:00:07,200 | 好 |
| 00:00:07,200 | 00:00:07,900 | 好 部長好 |
| 00:00:07,900 | 00:00:08,400 | 好 委員好 |
| 00:00:08,400 | 00:00:09,900 | 好 部長您知道我一直在醫院 |
| 00:00:09,900 | 00:00:11,100 | 我一直在 |
| 00:00:11,100 | 00:00:12,300 | 謝謝部長的關心 |
| 00:00:12,300 | 00:00:14,000 | 您知道我一直在醫院工作 |
| 00:00:14,000 | 00:00:14,600 | 40年 |
| 00:00:14,600 | 00:00:16,900 | 然後有30年時間是在癌症醫院工作 |
| 00:00:16,900 | 00:00:17,400 | 是 |
| 00:00:17,400 | 00:00:18,900 | 那我想我非常清楚 |
| 00:00:18,900 | 00:00:22,000 | 您我都非常清楚醫學的能跟不能 |
| 00:00:22,000 | 00:00:23,200 | 醫學有其極限 |
| 00:00:23,200 | 00:00:24,800 | 它不是萬能 |
| 00:00:24,800 | 00:00:27,200 | 但是當一位當事人 |
| 00:00:27,300 | 00:00:30,099 | 他明知道自己的疾病是無解無救 |
| 00:00:30,099 | 00:00:32,200 | 而且一定會繼續惡化 |
| 00:00:32,200 | 00:00:35,100 | 那這個時候他也會希望說 |
| 00:00:35,100 | 00:00:37,000 | 在他有限的時間當中 |
| 00:00:37,000 | 00:00:39,000 | 他能夠趁他還清醒的時候 |
| 00:00:39,000 | 00:00:41,400 | 為自己做一些安排跟決定 |
| 00:00:41,400 | 00:00:43,100 | 而不是讓自己承受更多痛苦 |
| 00:00:43,100 | 00:00:44,099 | 而且很重要 |
| 00:00:44,099 | 00:00:45,500 | 讓家屬也在 |
| 00:00:45,500 | 00:00:49,300 | 經歷這個無比沉重的一個不捨 |
| 00:00:49,300 | 00:00:50,400 | 那前陣子柯P |
| 00:00:50,400 | 00:00:51,900 | 我知道剛剛邱瑋惟有提到 |
| 00:00:51,900 | 00:00:53,100 | 跟一位這個罹患 |
| 00:00:53,100 | 00:00:54,200 | 他的遺傳性 |
| 00:00:54,300 | 00:00:57,600 | 曾經退化性的喊病病人對談 |
| 00:00:57,600 | 00:00:59,600 | 那當事人決定在48歲的時候 |
| 00:00:59,600 | 00:01:00,600 | 執行安樂死 |
| 00:01:00,600 | 00:01:02,600 | 部長你現在看到這位男士 |
| 00:01:02,600 | 00:01:04,300 | 他已經離開事件了 |
| 00:01:04,300 | 00:01:06,700 | 他姐姐也取到相同的資格 |
| 00:01:06,700 | 00:01:07,800 | 但是他非常偉大 |
| 00:01:07,800 | 00:01:09,100 | 他決定來善後 |
| 00:01:09,100 | 00:01:10,800 | 那為什麼48歲要決定 |
| 00:01:10,800 | 00:01:11,900 | 就做安樂死 |
| 00:01:11,900 | 00:01:15,300 | 因為他親眼照顧他的媽媽 |
| 00:01:15,300 | 00:01:18,300 | 他知道他將來會變成什麼樣 |
| 00:01:18,300 | 00:01:20,100 | 他完全去了解 |
| 00:01:20,100 | 00:01:22,500 | 所以就是希望他能夠做一些自主的決定 |
| 00:01:22,500 | 00:01:23,900 | 在這個時候 |
| 00:01:24,000 | 00:01:25,000 | 那這位當事人 |
| 00:01:25,000 | 00:01:26,900 | 我想跟部長報告 |
| 00:01:26,900 | 00:01:28,200 | 他完成了學業 |
| 00:01:28,200 | 00:01:29,600 | 他照顧了家人 |
| 00:01:29,600 | 00:01:31,500 | 他結交了朋友 |
| 00:01:31,500 | 00:01:34,400 | 而且他有朋友陪他到瑞士去執行 |
| 00:01:34,400 | 00:01:37,300 | 可見他並不是一個輕視生命 |
| 00:01:37,300 | 00:01:39,900 | 或隨意去放棄生命的人 |
| 00:01:39,900 | 00:01:40,600 | 反而倒是說 |
| 00:01:40,600 | 00:01:43,900 | 他有掌握自己生命的價值跟這個意義 |
| 00:01:43,900 | 00:01:45,100 | 他不是長短的問題 |
| 00:01:45,100 | 00:01:46,900 | 而是說他希望能夠活出 |
| 00:01:46,900 | 00:01:50,200 | 他最卑微的一個期待 |
| 00:01:50,200 | 00:01:53,800 | 那這個我想再跟部長分享一下 |
| 00:01:54,300 | 00:01:55,500 | 當然目前的民調顯示 |
| 00:01:55,500 | 00:01:56,600 | 我相信很多人都提到 |
| 00:01:56,600 | 00:01:59,700 | 台灣大概75%以上是支持的 |
| 00:01:59,700 | 00:02:03,000 | 那台灣尊嚴善終諮詢服務協會 |
| 00:02:03,000 | 00:02:04,600 | 他們成立八年 |
| 00:02:04,600 | 00:02:07,000 | 有五千多人前來諮詢 |
| 00:02:07,000 | 00:02:11,900 | 有一百多人已經取得瑞士的安樂死的資格 |
| 00:02:11,900 | 00:02:13,400 | 那其中還有一半的人 |
| 00:02:13,400 | 00:02:14,600 | 他已經執行了 |
| 00:02:14,600 | 00:02:17,000 | 換句話說他們已經離開人世了 |
| 00:02:17,000 | 00:02:18,000 | 那部長你想想看 |
| 00:02:18,000 | 00:02:19,000 | 如果還有選擇 |
| 00:02:19,000 | 00:02:21,300 | 誰願意離開自己的家 |
| 00:02:21,300 | 00:02:22,500 | 誰願意離開自己的親人 |
| 00:02:22,500 | 00:02:26,900 | 到那麼遠的地方去完成這件事情 |
| 00:02:26,900 | 00:02:28,600 | 所以最後只會讓相對的 |
| 00:02:28,600 | 00:02:30,200 | 其實可能會跟單元一樣 |
| 00:02:30,200 | 00:02:31,300 | 有資源的人 |
| 00:02:31,300 | 00:02:33,200 | 因為這個是一筆一大筆費用 |
| 00:02:33,200 | 00:02:35,200 | 也不能全部人隨行 |
| 00:02:35,200 | 00:02:38,000 | 才有辦法在海外來執行這個善終 |
| 00:02:38,000 | 00:02:41,000 | 但是在台灣就苦苦的等待痛苦 |
| 00:02:41,000 | 00:02:43,500 | 剛剛王振旭有人談到疼痛 |
| 00:02:43,500 | 00:02:45,300 | 跟這個我其實我覺得 |
| 00:02:45,300 | 00:02:46,900 | 一個是病痛 |
| 00:02:46,900 | 00:02:48,700 | 一個叫痛苦叫suffer |
| 00:02:48,700 | 00:02:49,500 | 有病痛 |
| 00:02:49,500 | 00:02:50,100 | 病與血痛 |
| 00:02:50,100 | 00:02:52,000 | 但是還有心理的受傷 |
| 00:02:52,000 | 00:02:53,600 | 但衛福部不斷的用這兩個 |
| 00:02:53,600 | 00:02:55,000 | 安寧緩和條跟病人自治條 |
| 00:02:55,000 | 00:02:57,600 | 說這個可以來符合期待 |
| 00:02:57,600 | 00:02:58,300 | 就現階段 |
| 00:02:58,300 | 00:02:59,300 | 我知道剛剛之前 |
| 00:02:59,300 | 00:03:01,600 | 我都有聽到您的回答 |
| 00:03:01,600 | 00:03:02,400 | 但是我要講的 |
| 00:03:02,400 | 00:03:05,200 | 我們也都清楚有很多並不適合 |
| 00:03:05,200 | 00:03:08,400 | 他並沒有完全含刮每個人的期待 |
| 00:03:08,400 | 00:03:10,500 | 所以以剛剛我提到這位男士 |
| 00:03:10,500 | 00:03:12,100 | 這個48歲的男士 |
| 00:03:12,100 | 00:03:13,600 | 柯P跟他對談的男士 |
| 00:03:13,600 | 00:03:14,900 | 你知道他並不符合 |
| 00:03:14,900 | 00:03:17,000 | 因為他意識非常的清醒 |
| 00:03:17,000 | 00:03:19,800 | 他連這前面兩條都不符合 |
| 00:03:19,900 | 00:03:21,900 | 所以你想他要經歷過多少 |
| 00:03:21,900 | 00:03:24,100 | 大小便失禁的夜晚 |
| 00:03:24,100 | 00:03:27,700 | 他還要爬在地上爬行多久 |
| 00:03:27,700 | 00:03:29,200 | 他還要眼睜睜看著自己 |
| 00:03:29,200 | 00:03:31,400 | 病情惡化有多長的時間 |
| 00:03:31,400 | 00:03:33,800 | 他才能夠符合前兩項 |
| 00:03:33,800 | 00:03:35,500 | 部長在之前的會議上 |
| 00:03:35,500 | 00:03:36,000 | 您開口 |
| 00:03:36,000 | 00:03:37,300 | 您今天有稍微改口 |
| 00:03:37,300 | 00:03:38,100 | 一開始就說 |
| 00:03:38,100 | 00:03:39,400 | 安樂死有很大的爭議 |
| 00:03:39,400 | 00:03:40,900 | 其實您對單元也是這樣 |
| 00:03:40,900 | 00:03:41,900 | 這個單元有很大爭議 |
| 00:03:41,900 | 00:03:43,600 | 所以您那時候拒絕討論 |
| 00:03:43,600 | 00:03:44,600 | 那我今天聽到 |
| 00:03:44,600 | 00:03:47,000 | 您有開始做一些修正 |
| 00:03:47,000 | 00:03:48,500 | 那部長我要提醒你 |
| 00:03:48,500 | 00:03:49,500 | 不要輕易的談 |
| 00:03:49,500 | 00:03:51,500 | 天下事這個很有爭議 |
| 00:03:51,500 | 00:03:54,500 | 請問天下事哪一件事沒有爭議 |
| 00:03:54,500 | 00:03:55,500 | 請允許我這樣說 |
| 00:03:55,500 | 00:03:57,500 | 你現在在您的位置上 |
| 00:03:57,500 | 00:03:59,500 | 也很有爭議 |
| 00:03:59,500 | 00:04:01,500 | 您知道我談的是什麼 |
| 00:04:01,500 | 00:04:02,500 | 那您常常用這個 |
| 00:04:02,500 | 00:04:04,500 | 我們會提高篩檢的補助 |
| 00:04:04,500 | 00:04:07,500 | 我們會加速含病含藥的給付 |
| 00:04:07,500 | 00:04:09,000 | 我們要完善強照體系 |
| 00:04:09,000 | 00:04:11,500 | 對他們來說都是非常的刺耳 |
| 00:04:11,500 | 00:04:12,500 | 就是非常的痛心 |
| 00:04:12,500 | 00:04:14,000 | 因為這個對他們都毫無幫助 |
| 00:04:14,000 | 00:04:16,500 | 也不能減輕他們的疼痛 |
| 00:04:16,500 | 00:04:17,500 | 所以我現在要請問 |
| 00:04:17,500 | 00:04:19,000 | 我要請問這個部長 |
| 00:04:19,000 | 00:04:21,000 | 這個說法有點像次長最 |
| 00:04:21,000 | 00:04:22,000 | 林次長最愛講的 |
| 00:04:22,000 | 00:04:24,000 | 叫做站著講話要不疼 |
| 00:04:24,000 | 00:04:25,000 | 部長就是說 |
| 00:04:25,000 | 00:04:27,000 | 您到底要臨時這群病人多久 |
| 00:04:27,000 | 00:04:28,000 | 就像我問你 |
| 00:04:28,000 | 00:04:30,000 | 你要臨時沒有子宮的病人多久 |
| 00:04:30,000 | 00:04:32,000 | 還要三十年嗎 |
| 00:04:32,000 | 00:04:35,000 | 老實說我對於我們是 |
| 00:04:35,000 | 00:04:36,000 | 二十幾年的好朋友 |
| 00:04:36,000 | 00:04:37,000 | 我必須告訴你 |
| 00:04:37,000 | 00:04:38,000 | 您這個說法 |
| 00:04:38,000 | 00:04:39,000 | 您這樣的做法 |
| 00:04:39,000 | 00:04:42,000 | 你不讓人家生也不讓人家死 |
| 00:04:42,000 | 00:04:46,000 | 我覺得是很冷酷無情到極致 |
| 00:04:46,000 | 00:04:47,000 | 我希望您回家後 |
| 00:04:47,000 | 00:04:48,000 | 能夠思考一下 |
| 00:04:48,000 | 00:04:49,000 | 我今天跟你講的話 |
| 00:04:49,000 | 00:04:51,000 | 我們是幾十年的好朋友 |
| 00:04:51,000 | 00:04:52,000 | 你回家想 |
| 00:04:52,000 | 00:04:53,000 | 真的你要讓這些人 |
| 00:04:53,000 | 00:04:56,000 | 讓有一些人想生也不能生 |
| 00:04:56,000 | 00:04:58,000 | 想死也不能死 |
| 00:04:58,000 | 00:04:59,000 | 那部長不好意思 |
| 00:04:59,000 | 00:05:00,000 | 我在修正您剛剛的一段 |
| 00:05:00,000 | 00:05:01,000 | 您剛剛有提到說 |
| 00:05:01,000 | 00:05:03,000 | 跟對別人說 |
| 00:05:03,000 | 00:05:05,000 | 難以忍受痛苦很難定義 |
| 00:05:05,000 | 00:05:06,000 | 部長您錯了 |
| 00:05:06,000 | 00:05:07,000 | 您還記得痛怎麼定義嗎 |
| 00:05:07,000 | 00:05:09,000 | 當病人說痛他就是痛 |
| 00:05:09,000 | 00:05:11,000 | 沒有人可以否認這件事 |
| 00:05:11,000 | 00:05:13,000 | 好吧請部長回去再思考 |
| 00:05:13,000 | 00:05:15,000 | 謝謝部長謝謝主席 |
| 00:05:15,000 | 00:05:17,000 | 好謝謝陳昭志委員發言 |
| 00:05:17,000 | 00:05:19,000 | 您先休息30分鐘 |