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王育敏 @ 第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第21次全體委員會議
| Start Time | End Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00:00,000 | 00:00:09,000 | 好 主席我們有請石部長 |
| 00:00:09,000 | 00:00:15,000 | 好 委員好 |
| 00:00:15,000 | 00:00:20,000 | 部長好 部長我問你一個食安的原則 |
| 00:00:20,000 | 00:00:23,000 | 如果我們發現一個有疑慮的商品 |
| 00:00:23,000 | 00:00:27,000 | 採取全面性的預防性下架 |
| 00:00:27,000 | 00:00:30,000 | 會不會很快大家就沒有東西吃 |
| 00:00:30,000 | 00:00:34,000 | 我們要看這一個所謂的 |
| 00:00:34,000 | 00:00:37,000 | 我們剛剛講的違規的樣態是哪一種 |
| 00:00:37,000 | 00:00:40,000 | 以這次油品為例 |
| 00:00:40,000 | 00:00:44,000 | 你們自己去發明了一個有疑慮的油品 |
| 00:00:44,000 | 00:00:47,000 | 含20%以下不用全面性下架 |
| 00:00:47,000 | 00:00:52,000 | 那我就問你 你這一個決策引發非常大的疑慮 |
| 00:00:52,000 | 00:00:55,000 | 最後你們自己被迫轉彎 |
| 00:00:55,000 | 00:00:57,000 | 採取全面性的下架 |
| 00:00:57,000 | 00:00:59,000 | 那我現在就問你嘛 |
| 00:00:59,000 | 00:01:02,000 | 陳時中這個政委他說 |
| 00:01:02,000 | 00:01:04,000 | 如果採取全面性的下架 |
| 00:01:04,000 | 00:01:07,000 | 很快大家就沒有東西吃 |
| 00:01:07,000 | 00:01:09,000 | 你認同嗎 那一天記者會你就坐在他旁邊 |
| 00:01:09,000 | 00:01:12,000 | 我想跟委員你報告 |
| 00:01:12,000 | 00:01:13,000 | 我們這個標準呢 |
| 00:01:13,000 | 00:01:15,000 | 這個本編體的標準 |
| 00:01:15,000 | 00:01:18,000 | 是採取的歐盟最高的標準 |
| 00:01:18,000 | 00:01:19,000 | 最嚴的標準 |
| 00:01:19,000 | 00:01:21,000 | 而以歐盟的下架 |
| 00:01:21,000 | 00:01:24,000 | 它也不是全部的食品都是下架 |
| 00:01:24,000 | 00:01:29,000 | 所以我們現在最後所做的 |
| 00:01:29,000 | 00:01:33,000 | 其實比歐盟的標準還要嚴格到好幾倍 |
| 00:01:33,000 | 00:01:35,000 | 在歐盟的標準裡面呢 |
| 00:01:35,000 | 00:01:36,000 | 所以你的結論是什麼 |
| 00:01:36,000 | 00:01:39,000 | 針對油品本身才下架 |
| 00:01:39,000 | 00:01:41,000 | 我剛剛問你的問題你沒有回答 |
| 00:01:41,000 | 00:01:44,000 | 就是有疑慮的商品 |
| 00:01:44,000 | 00:01:48,000 | 採取全面性的預防性下架 |
| 00:01:48,000 | 00:01:51,000 | 所以它是由專家討論出來 |
| 00:01:51,000 | 00:01:53,000 | 所以下次遇到類似的問題 |
| 00:01:53,000 | 00:01:55,000 | 你還是會分第一層第二層喔 |
| 00:01:55,000 | 00:01:57,000 | 這個都是要經過科學討論的 |
| 00:01:57,000 | 00:01:59,000 | 所以你現在整個會寵到目的喔 |
| 00:01:59,000 | 00:02:01,000 | 我就問你下次如果油品 |
| 00:02:01,000 | 00:02:03,000 | 有疑慮的油品出來 |
| 00:02:03,000 | 00:02:05,000 | 你一定要分第一層第二層 |
| 00:02:05,000 | 00:02:06,000 | 一樣是20%以下不下架 |
| 00:02:06,000 | 00:02:08,000 | 我們的標準有很多種 |
| 00:02:08,000 | 00:02:10,000 | 經過這次的事件 |
| 00:02:10,000 | 00:02:12,000 | 你的標準不改嗎 |
| 00:02:12,000 | 00:02:14,000 | 你不知道全國民眾對食案的標準 |
| 00:02:14,000 | 00:02:16,000 | 就是很嚴格嗎 |
| 00:02:16,000 | 00:02:18,000 | 未來遇到這一種 |
| 00:02:18,000 | 00:02:20,000 | 有疑慮的商品 |
| 00:02:20,000 | 00:02:22,000 | 採取全面性的預防性下架 |
| 00:02:22,000 | 00:02:25,000 | 不該成為你整個衛福部 |
| 00:02:25,000 | 00:02:27,000 | 將來處理食案的一致性的標準嗎 |
| 00:02:27,000 | 00:02:29,000 | 你還要回到第一層第二層嗎 |
| 00:02:29,000 | 00:02:30,000 | 我問你要不要嗎 |
| 00:02:30,000 | 00:02:33,000 | 我跟委員說明如果是假權 |
| 00:02:33,000 | 00:02:36,000 | 這個催粉的事件是假權 |
| 00:02:36,000 | 00:02:38,000 | 假權是完全不得添加 |
| 00:02:38,000 | 00:02:40,000 | 所以它是零減出 |
| 00:02:40,000 | 00:02:42,000 | 所以任何通通都要下架 |
| 00:02:42,000 | 00:02:44,000 | 這個沒有問題 |
| 00:02:44,000 | 00:02:46,000 | 本評比是安全標準 |
| 00:02:46,000 | 00:02:48,000 | 所以是跟其他的安全標準 |
| 00:02:48,000 | 00:02:50,000 | 我們這一次的話是 |
| 00:02:50,000 | 00:02:52,000 | 經過專家的討論之後 |
| 00:02:52,000 | 00:02:55,000 | 是以20%做切點 |
| 00:02:55,000 | 00:02:58,000 | 但是最後我們在行政上的考量 |
| 00:02:58,000 | 00:03:01,000 | 希望能夠儘速的下架 |
| 00:03:01,000 | 00:03:03,000 | 所以我們最後採取的是 |
| 00:03:03,000 | 00:03:05,000 | 全面性的下架 |
| 00:03:05,000 | 00:03:06,000 | 你回答我的問題 |
| 00:03:06,000 | 00:03:08,000 | 下一次如果在發現 |
| 00:03:08,000 | 00:03:10,000 | 大豆油裡面出現 |
| 00:03:10,000 | 00:03:12,000 | 批號裡面出現 |
| 00:03:12,000 | 00:03:15,000 | 出現超標的本評比 |
| 00:03:15,000 | 00:03:17,000 | 你是不是會像你這一次 |
| 00:03:17,000 | 00:03:20,000 | 所犯的錯誤分第一層第二層 |
| 00:03:20,000 | 00:03:22,000 | 下架還是會採取 |
| 00:03:22,000 | 00:03:25,000 | 全面性預防性下架 |
| 00:03:25,000 | 00:03:27,000 | 作為衛福部部長 |
| 00:03:27,000 | 00:03:28,000 | 你要告訴全國的民眾 |
| 00:03:28,000 | 00:03:30,000 | 你未來處理有疑慮的 |
| 00:03:30,000 | 00:03:32,000 | 擁有的時候 |
| 00:03:32,000 | 00:03:34,000 | 我就問本評比這一題 |
| 00:03:34,000 | 00:03:36,000 | 未來如果出現有批號 |
| 00:03:36,000 | 00:03:37,000 | 出現超標 |
| 00:03:37,000 | 00:03:39,000 | 請問你要採取全面性的 |
| 00:03:39,000 | 00:03:40,000 | 預防性下架 |
| 00:03:40,000 | 00:03:42,000 | 還是分層的下架 |
| 00:03:42,000 | 00:03:43,000 | 你就直接回答就好 |
| 00:03:43,000 | 00:03:46,000 | 如果是我現在已經做的決定 |
| 00:03:46,000 | 00:03:47,000 | 是全面性下架 |
| 00:03:47,000 | 00:03:48,000 | 當然就是全面性下架 |
| 00:03:48,000 | 00:03:49,000 | 好這樣就好 |
| 00:03:49,000 | 00:03:52,000 | 那除非未來有新的討論 |
| 00:03:52,000 | 00:03:54,000 | 我覺得陳時中政委 |
| 00:03:54,000 | 00:03:55,000 | 他不應該說 |
| 00:03:55,000 | 00:03:57,000 | 採取預防性的全面性下架 |
| 00:03:57,000 | 00:03:59,000 | 大家就沒有東西吃 |
| 00:03:59,000 | 00:04:01,000 | 我剛剛提過那是不同的樣態 |
| 00:04:01,000 | 00:04:03,000 | 他不是針對這個BAP |
| 00:04:03,000 | 00:04:05,000 | 是針對其他的 |
| 00:04:05,000 | 00:04:06,000 | 其他什麼 |
| 00:04:06,000 | 00:04:07,000 | 他講的是說全面性 |
| 00:04:07,000 | 00:04:08,000 | 他沒有啊 |
| 00:04:08,000 | 00:04:10,000 | 他沒有嫌疑啊 |
| 00:04:10,000 | 00:04:14,000 | 作為前衛福部部長的政委 |
| 00:04:14,000 | 00:04:15,000 | 講出這樣的話 |
| 00:04:15,000 | 00:04:17,000 | 我必須告訴大家 |
| 00:04:17,000 | 00:04:19,000 | 這樣的政委叫做不負責任 |
| 00:04:19,000 | 00:04:21,000 | 不負責任 |
| 00:04:21,000 | 00:04:24,000 | 何況他還擔任過前衛福部部長 |
| 00:04:24,000 | 00:04:26,000 | 還擔任過好多年 |
| 00:04:26,000 | 00:04:28,000 | 由他這樣子的一個 |
| 00:04:28,000 | 00:04:29,000 | 很草率的態度 |
| 00:04:29,000 | 00:04:32,000 | 來帶領大家監督大家的食安 |
| 00:04:32,000 | 00:04:34,000 | 這是讓大家不放心的 |
| 00:04:34,000 | 00:04:36,000 | 這是非常非常的草率 |
| 00:04:36,000 | 00:04:38,000 | 一次事件的教訓還不夠嗎 |
| 00:04:38,000 | 00:04:40,000 | 還在那邊講這個風涼話 |
| 00:04:40,000 | 00:04:43,000 | 什麼預防性的全面性下架 |
| 00:04:43,000 | 00:04:44,000 | 大家會沒有東西吃 |
| 00:04:44,000 | 00:04:45,000 | 有嗎 |
| 00:04:45,000 | 00:04:47,000 | 你這次採取油品的全面性下架 |
| 00:04:47,000 | 00:04:49,000 | 有沒有東西吃嗎 |
| 00:04:49,000 | 00:04:51,000 | 有沒有有可以用嗎 |
| 00:04:51,000 | 00:04:52,000 | 根本就沒有 |
| 00:04:52,000 | 00:04:53,000 | 第二個 |
| 00:04:53,000 | 00:04:55,000 | 你們這次做的最大的錯誤 |
| 00:04:55,000 | 00:04:57,000 | 就是含20%以下的 |
| 00:04:57,000 | 00:04:58,000 | 這個有問題的油品 |
| 00:04:58,000 | 00:05:00,000 | 不用全面性下架 |
| 00:05:00,000 | 00:05:02,000 | 到現在外界在質疑的是 |
| 00:05:02,000 | 00:05:04,000 | 出席的專家學者 |
| 00:05:04,000 | 00:05:06,000 | 到底是哪些人 |
| 00:05:06,000 | 00:05:09,000 | 整個會議記錄過程一定有錄音 |
| 00:05:09,000 | 00:05:11,000 | 我要求要公佈所有的錄音檔 |
| 00:05:11,000 | 00:05:14,000 | 我們要知道決策形成的過程 |
| 00:05:14,000 | 00:05:17,000 | 既然現在大家覺得這是一個錯誤的決策 |
| 00:05:17,000 | 00:05:18,000 | 當時錯誤的決策 |
| 00:05:18,000 | 00:05:20,000 | 整個會議是怎麼開的 |
| 00:05:20,000 | 00:05:21,000 | 出席的人有誰 |
| 00:05:21,000 | 00:05:24,000 | 不應該黑箱全部都公開 |
| 00:05:24,000 | 00:05:25,000 | 你可以公開嗎 |
| 00:05:25,000 | 00:05:28,000 | 我想我們現在也不需要去獵巫 |
| 00:05:28,000 | 00:05:29,000 | 沒有要獵巫 |
| 00:05:29,000 | 00:05:33,000 | 當時候都是在這個科學的證據下去討論 |
| 00:05:33,000 | 00:05:34,000 | 所以你不敢公開 |
| 00:05:34,000 | 00:05:37,000 | 如果是歐盟的下架標準 |
| 00:05:37,000 | 00:05:38,000 | 其實就到第一層 |
| 00:05:38,000 | 00:05:39,000 | 所以部長我只問你 |
| 00:05:39,000 | 00:05:40,000 | 我們這一次是 |
| 00:05:40,000 | 00:05:41,000 | 你不要公開對不對 |
| 00:05:41,000 | 00:05:42,000 | 錄音檔也不公開 |
| 00:05:42,000 | 00:05:44,000 | 出席的專家學者是哪些人 |
| 00:05:44,000 | 00:05:45,000 | 也不敢 |
| 00:05:45,000 | 00:05:47,000 | 也不敢公開 |
| 00:05:47,000 | 00:05:49,000 | 後面在行政執行上 |
| 00:05:49,000 | 00:05:51,000 | 我幫他更擴大 |
| 00:05:51,000 | 00:05:53,000 | 部長你現在很矛盾 |
| 00:05:53,000 | 00:05:54,000 | 行政的執行上 |
| 00:05:54,000 | 00:05:57,000 | 你剛剛一開始是在幫他們辯護 |
| 00:05:57,000 | 00:06:00,000 | 你說他們做的這個是比歐盟更嚴格的標準 |
| 00:06:00,000 | 00:06:01,000 | 所以是有道理的 |
| 00:06:01,000 | 00:06:02,000 | 既然是有道理的 |
| 00:06:02,000 | 00:06:03,000 | 就不妨公開 |
| 00:06:03,000 | 00:06:05,000 | 我們要知道這一些 |
| 00:06:05,000 | 00:06:07,000 | 他說他採取這個標準 |
| 00:06:07,000 | 00:06:08,000 | 還比歐盟更嚴格 |
| 00:06:08,000 | 00:06:10,000 | 這一些專家學者是誰 |
| 00:06:10,000 | 00:06:13,000 | 會議紀錄到底是怎麼召開的 |
| 00:06:13,000 | 00:06:14,000 | 我知道每一場會議紀錄 |
| 00:06:14,000 | 00:06:15,000 | 都有錄音帶 |
| 00:06:15,000 | 00:06:17,000 | 都一定有錄音 |
| 00:06:17,000 | 00:06:19,000 | 那就完整的公佈主治稿 |
| 00:06:19,000 | 00:06:21,000 | 完整的公佈整場 |
| 00:06:21,000 | 00:06:24,000 | 如果所有的專家學者都非常的公正 |
| 00:06:24,000 | 00:06:25,000 | 沒有偏袒業者 |
| 00:06:25,000 | 00:06:28,000 | 沒有說這樣子下架業者 |
| 00:06:28,000 | 00:06:29,000 | 生意會受到影響 |
| 00:06:30,000 | 00:06:32,000 | 沒有出現這樣的字眼 |
| 00:06:32,000 | 00:06:34,000 | 那我們佩服這些專家學者 |
| 00:06:34,000 | 00:06:35,000 | 完全彼此專業 |
| 00:06:35,000 | 00:06:38,000 | 但是如果有人在這當中 |
| 00:06:38,000 | 00:06:42,000 | 護航業者是擔心業者的生意受影響 |
| 00:06:42,000 | 00:06:45,000 | 所以才說免下架 |
| 00:06:45,000 | 00:06:47,000 | 那這個我們當然要追究 |
| 00:06:47,000 | 00:06:49,000 | 我們不允許 |
| 00:06:49,000 | 00:06:51,000 | 打著專家學者的光環 |
| 00:06:51,000 | 00:06:53,000 | 還在那邊護航業者 |
| 00:06:53,000 | 00:06:55,000 | 沒有這回事 |
| 00:06:55,000 | 00:06:57,000 | 就公開好不好 |
| 00:06:57,000 | 00:06:58,000 | 如果委員認為 |
| 00:06:58,000 | 00:07:01,000 | 這個過程當中會有護航的嫌疑的話 |
| 00:07:01,000 | 00:07:03,000 | 那我們可以把這些資料 |
| 00:07:03,000 | 00:07:05,000 | 送行檢調來調查 |
| 00:07:05,000 | 00:07:06,000 | 好 那你們就送 |
| 00:07:06,000 | 00:07:07,000 | 我們就送檢調 |
| 00:07:07,000 | 00:07:08,000 | 你們就送好了 |
| 00:07:08,000 | 00:07:09,000 | 就是整個公開嘛 |
| 00:07:09,000 | 00:07:11,000 | 以照公信嘛好不好 |
| 00:07:11,000 | 00:07:12,000 | 就給檢調來調查 |
| 00:07:12,000 | 00:07:13,000 | 整個都以照公信嘛 |
| 00:07:13,000 | 00:07:14,000 | 就給檢調調查 |
| 00:07:14,000 | 00:07:17,000 | 給外界一個清楚的面貌 |
| 00:07:17,000 | 00:07:19,000 | 因為外界現在對這一個部分的質疑 |
| 00:07:19,000 | 00:07:20,000 | 是最多的 |
| 00:07:20,000 | 00:07:24,000 | 我覺得就為了平息大家的質疑 |
| 00:07:24,000 | 00:07:26,000 | 就是有一個公正客觀的調查 |
| 00:07:26,000 | 00:07:27,000 | 這樣蠻好的 |
| 00:07:27,000 | 00:07:28,000 | 好 接下來我要問你 |
| 00:07:28,000 | 00:07:30,000 | 一波未平一波又起 |
| 00:07:30,000 | 00:07:32,000 | 自然有連苦茶有 |
| 00:07:32,000 | 00:07:33,000 | 不是只有一批喔 |
| 00:07:33,000 | 00:07:36,000 | 昨天第一批是這個 |
| 00:07:36,000 | 00:07:38,000 | 統一生機的這個 |
| 00:07:38,000 | 00:07:40,000 | 連進的有機苦茶有 |
| 00:07:40,000 | 00:07:42,000 | 昨天是有風雨生技 |
| 00:07:42,000 | 00:07:44,000 | 又它還標榜是 |
| 00:07:44,000 | 00:07:48,000 | 在地精花小果的苦茶有 |
| 00:07:48,000 | 00:07:50,000 | 連續已經兩批 |
| 00:07:50,000 | 00:07:51,000 | 都有問題了 |
| 00:07:51,000 | 00:07:53,000 | 部長你要不要動起來 |
| 00:07:53,000 | 00:07:56,000 | 針對全國所有的這些苦茶有 |
| 00:07:56,000 | 00:07:59,000 | 進行專案的查驗 |
| 00:07:59,000 | 00:08:00,000 | 到底還有多少 |
| 00:08:00,000 | 00:08:02,000 | 這樣子我們就高度懷疑啊 |
| 00:08:02,000 | 00:08:05,000 | 是不是這些苦茶子的來源 |
| 00:08:05,000 | 00:08:06,000 | 也是有問題 |
| 00:08:06,000 | 00:08:09,000 | 因為現在現在這個 |
| 00:08:09,000 | 00:08:11,000 | 報告裡面提出來都說 |
| 00:08:11,000 | 00:08:14,000 | 我們現在台灣的苦茶子 |
| 00:08:14,000 | 00:08:16,000 | 大概有將近九成 |
| 00:08:16,000 | 00:08:19,000 | 是來自對岸進口進來的 |
| 00:08:19,000 | 00:08:21,000 | 本地生產的有生產 |
| 00:08:21,000 | 00:08:23,000 | 但是量沒有那麼高 |
| 00:08:23,000 | 00:08:25,000 | 但是你看現在市售的 |
| 00:08:25,000 | 00:08:26,000 | 一個是要標榜有機 |
| 00:08:26,000 | 00:08:28,000 | 大家還以為是台灣有機不是啊 |
| 00:08:28,000 | 00:08:32,000 | 原來是中國進口進來的苦茶子 |
| 00:08:32,000 | 00:08:35,000 | 那進口的苦茶子 |
| 00:08:35,000 | 00:08:37,000 | 它的源頭的把關 |
| 00:08:37,000 | 00:08:39,000 | 到底是怎麼做的 |
| 00:08:39,000 | 00:08:42,000 | 它是不是真有機都不知道 |
| 00:08:42,000 | 00:08:44,000 | 但是在市面上賣著 |
| 00:08:44,000 | 00:08:47,000 | 打著有機的品牌就賣很貴啊 |
| 00:08:47,000 | 00:08:49,000 | 那消費者就變成冤大頭 |
| 00:08:49,000 | 00:08:51,000 | 本來是為了自己的健康 |
| 00:08:51,000 | 00:08:53,000 | 我想說挑這個有機的 |
| 00:08:53,000 | 00:08:55,000 | 然後又是比較貴的苦茶油 |
| 00:08:55,000 | 00:08:58,000 | 然後還標榜說還可以生飲生喝 |
| 00:08:58,000 | 00:09:00,000 | 結果很重視健康的 |
| 00:09:00,000 | 00:09:01,000 | 當了冤大頭啊 |
| 00:09:01,000 | 00:09:03,000 | 買了這個裡面本便品 |
| 00:09:03,000 | 00:09:05,000 | 跟那個大豆油是一樣高啊 |
| 00:09:05,000 | 00:09:06,000 | 又是超標 |
| 00:09:06,000 | 00:09:09,000 | 然後昨天爆發出來的 |
| 00:09:09,000 | 00:09:10,000 | 它標榜是在地喔 |
| 00:09:10,000 | 00:09:13,000 | 它講的是來自雲林 |
| 00:09:13,000 | 00:09:15,000 | 還在地的精花小果 |
| 00:09:15,000 | 00:09:17,000 | 那為什麼在地的本便品 |
| 00:09:17,000 | 00:09:18,000 | 也超標 |
| 00:09:18,000 | 00:09:21,000 | 它是真在地還是假在地 |
| 00:09:21,000 | 00:09:24,000 | 所以這個問題很大 |
| 00:09:24,000 | 00:09:25,000 | 我們的有品怎麼 |
| 00:09:25,000 | 00:09:28,000 | 從真是大豆油到現在苦茶油 |
| 00:09:28,000 | 00:09:31,000 | 就是我們從源頭的原料管理 |
| 00:09:31,000 | 00:09:32,000 | 看起來都沒有在管 |
| 00:09:32,000 | 00:09:34,000 | 進口的也沒有在管 |
| 00:09:34,000 | 00:09:37,000 | 在地的也沒有管很好啊 |
| 00:09:37,000 | 00:09:40,000 | 這個部長你怎麼看這樣的事情 |
| 00:09:40,000 | 00:09:43,000 | 好如果是這個聯進案 |
| 00:09:43,000 | 00:09:44,000 | 這個第一個案呢 |
| 00:09:44,000 | 00:09:47,000 | 這個就如同委員提的 |
| 00:09:47,000 | 00:09:52,000 | 這個是從中國所進口的苦茶紙去提煉的 |
| 00:09:52,000 | 00:09:53,000 | 所以這個過程 |
| 00:09:53,000 | 00:09:56,000 | 我們這件事情是比較清楚 |
| 00:09:56,000 | 00:09:57,000 | 那麼至於永豐魚這個案子 |
| 00:09:57,000 | 00:09:59,000 | 是昨天通報的 |
| 00:09:59,000 | 00:10:01,000 | 所以目前這個場在嘉義 |
| 00:10:01,000 | 00:10:04,000 | 所以目前跟這個嘉義衛生局 |
| 00:10:04,000 | 00:10:08,000 | 大家一起連同在做進行這個調查 |
| 00:10:08,000 | 00:10:10,000 | 那麼我們會把這兩個事件 |
| 00:10:10,000 | 00:10:11,000 | 都調查清楚之後 |
| 00:10:11,000 | 00:10:13,000 | 那麼來比對 |
| 00:10:13,000 | 00:10:15,000 | 這中間的相似性 |
| 00:10:15,000 | 00:10:16,000 | 跟他的這個問題 |
| 00:10:16,000 | 00:10:19,000 | 那麼有沒有造成是一個系統性的問題 |
| 00:10:19,000 | 00:10:21,000 | 那麼再來進行進一步 |
| 00:10:21,000 | 00:10:24,000 | 不論是要專案的稽查 |
| 00:10:24,000 | 00:10:27,000 | 或者是對於這些業者 |
| 00:10:27,000 | 00:10:30,000 | 特別是很多還可能是一些小型的業者的輔導 |
| 00:10:30,000 | 00:10:32,000 | 你們現在這個敏感度不夠 |
| 00:10:32,000 | 00:10:35,000 | 如果已經有兩件而且都是大廠牌 |
| 00:10:35,000 | 00:10:37,000 | 都還有超標的問題 |
| 00:10:37,000 | 00:10:40,000 | 你就應該要大膽的假設小心的求證 |
| 00:10:40,000 | 00:10:42,000 | 你就應該要啟動專案 |
| 00:10:42,000 | 00:10:45,000 | 你就應該要啟動專案 |
| 00:10:45,000 | 00:10:47,000 | 其他品牌通通都抽啊 |
| 00:10:47,000 | 00:10:50,000 | 到底這個會不會是一個整個 |
| 00:10:50,000 | 00:10:52,000 | 這兩天就會做出決定 |
| 00:10:52,000 | 00:10:55,000 | 你們決策效率也太慢了 |
| 00:10:55,000 | 00:10:57,000 | 因為昨天才通報永豐魚 |
| 00:10:57,000 | 00:10:59,000 | 我們今天在做調查 |
| 00:10:59,000 | 00:11:01,000 | 所以今天調查我們就會做決定了 |
| 00:11:01,000 | 00:11:04,000 | 你們那個嘉義縣的油廠 |
| 00:11:04,000 | 00:11:06,000 | 你們要去看他的原料來源 |
| 00:11:06,000 | 00:11:08,000 | 到底是真本土 |
| 00:11:08,000 | 00:11:09,000 | 是真本土 |
| 00:11:09,000 | 00:11:12,000 | 有沒有混到是進口來的苦茶籽 |
| 00:11:12,000 | 00:11:14,000 | 那你這個整個 |
| 00:11:14,000 | 00:11:16,000 | 我覺得如果連這麼大的廠牌 |
| 00:11:16,000 | 00:11:19,000 | 他委託的製造商都出現這麼大的包 |
| 00:11:19,000 | 00:11:22,000 | 那其他的廠牌的信任度在哪裡 |
| 00:11:22,000 | 00:11:27,000 | 我建議應該立刻啟動這樣的一個專案 |
| 00:11:27,000 | 00:11:29,000 | 這一次既然從大豆沙拉油 |
| 00:11:29,000 | 00:11:31,000 | 整個我們看到這個問題 |
| 00:11:31,000 | 00:11:32,000 | 苦茶油也有這個問題 |
| 00:11:32,000 | 00:11:35,000 | 你所有原料的把關 |
| 00:11:35,000 | 00:11:37,000 | 你就是要痛定思痛啊 |
| 00:11:37,000 | 00:11:39,000 | 從源頭就開始啊 |
| 00:11:39,000 | 00:11:42,000 | 你的大豆油很多是進口進來的 |
| 00:11:42,000 | 00:11:43,000 | 巴西的大豆油 |
| 00:11:43,000 | 00:11:44,000 | 從原料就開始有問題 |
| 00:11:44,000 | 00:11:46,000 | 你這一次的苦茶油 |
| 00:11:46,000 | 00:11:50,000 | 我看也是從進口的這個原料就有問題 |
| 00:11:50,000 | 00:11:52,000 | 所以你食藥署則無旁貸 |
| 00:11:52,000 | 00:11:53,000 | 你衛福部則無旁貸 |
| 00:11:53,000 | 00:11:56,000 | 這都是邊境進口進來的原料 |
| 00:11:56,000 | 00:11:57,000 | 你就應該要好好查 |
| 00:11:57,000 | 00:12:00,000 | 看到問題是在哪裡 |
| 00:12:00,000 | 00:12:02,000 | 重新的把關改變 |
| 00:12:02,000 | 00:12:04,000 | 這個我們的品質才有可能 |
| 00:12:04,000 | 00:12:06,000 | 所以我提出四大訴求 |
| 00:12:06,000 | 00:12:09,000 | 第一個立刻啟動專案 |
| 00:12:09,000 | 00:12:11,000 | 因為已經有兩家大廠的都有問題了 |
| 00:12:11,000 | 00:12:13,000 | 你其他也應該要抽驗 |
| 00:12:13,000 | 00:12:16,000 | 你即使發現才可以阻止更多 |
| 00:12:16,000 | 00:12:17,000 | 進到家庭裡面 |
| 00:12:17,000 | 00:12:19,000 | 更多消費者變成冤大頭 |
| 00:12:19,000 | 00:12:20,000 | 買很貴的 |
| 00:12:20,000 | 00:12:22,000 | 但是還是一樣吃到本便品 |
| 00:12:22,000 | 00:12:24,000 | 第二個源頭管理 |
| 00:12:24,000 | 00:12:26,000 | 你現在所有進口的這一些 |
| 00:12:26,000 | 00:12:29,000 | 無論是黃豆或者是苦茶油脂 |
| 00:12:29,000 | 00:12:31,000 | 這種做成油品的原料 |
| 00:12:31,000 | 00:12:34,000 | 你一定要加驗把關 |
| 00:12:34,000 | 00:12:36,000 | 然後要強制揭露原產地 |
| 00:12:36,000 | 00:12:39,000 | 現在很多消費者覺得冤大頭是 |
| 00:12:39,000 | 00:12:41,000 | 他說這個是很好的 |
| 00:12:41,000 | 00:12:42,000 | 是有機的 |
| 00:12:42,000 | 00:12:45,000 | 然後做成說是台灣產的 |
| 00:12:45,000 | 00:12:46,000 | 結果原料是來自哪裡 |
| 00:12:46,000 | 00:12:48,000 | 可能就是來自大陸 |
| 00:12:48,000 | 00:12:50,000 | 然後大家以為說買到 |
| 00:12:50,000 | 00:12:52,000 | 台灣本土產的很好的苦茶油 |
| 00:12:52,000 | 00:12:53,000 | 不是啊 |
| 00:12:53,000 | 00:12:55,000 | 那一個連進的有機苦茶油 |
| 00:12:55,000 | 00:12:56,000 | 就是這樣子 |
| 00:12:56,000 | 00:12:58,000 | 大家覺得看起來很好 |
| 00:12:58,000 | 00:12:59,000 | 台灣產的 |
| 00:12:59,000 | 00:13:01,000 | 結果原料通通都是對岸的 |
| 00:13:01,000 | 00:13:03,000 | 現在還出問題 |
| 00:13:03,000 | 00:13:06,000 | 這一個的沒有揭露原料的原產地 |
| 00:13:06,000 | 00:13:07,000 | 也是一個很大的敗筆 |
| 00:13:07,000 | 00:13:09,000 | 一定要揭露 |
| 00:13:09,000 | 00:13:11,000 | 另外不食重罰 |
| 00:13:11,000 | 00:13:14,000 | 如果有假有機假在地假小農 |
| 00:13:14,000 | 00:13:16,000 | 通通都應該要重罰 |
| 00:13:16,000 | 00:13:17,000 | 這個叫什麼 |
| 00:13:17,000 | 00:13:18,000 | 這是詐欺啊 |
| 00:13:18,000 | 00:13:20,000 | 這個完全欺騙消費者 |
| 00:13:20,000 | 00:13:22,000 | 會吃苦茶油 |
| 00:13:22,000 | 00:13:23,000 | 願意花高價的 |
| 00:13:23,000 | 00:13:25,000 | 那些人越重視自己健康的 |
| 00:13:25,000 | 00:13:28,000 | 結果他買到了是假貨 |
| 00:13:28,000 | 00:13:31,000 | 買到了是本便品超標 |
| 00:13:31,000 | 00:13:33,000 | 他會覺得很冤枉 |
| 00:13:33,000 | 00:13:36,000 | 所以這件事情食安的整頓 |
| 00:13:36,000 | 00:13:38,000 | 我覺得這個部長你責無旁貸 |
| 00:13:38,000 | 00:13:40,000 | 這個是真正在做事情 |
| 00:13:40,000 | 00:13:42,000 | 你要把這件事情做好 |
| 00:13:42,000 | 00:13:43,000 | 要不然我就問部長 |
| 00:13:43,000 | 00:13:44,000 | 你最近吃什麼油 |
| 00:13:44,000 | 00:13:46,000 | 你家裡都吃什麼油 |
| 00:13:46,000 | 00:13:47,000 | 都有 |
| 00:13:47,000 | 00:13:50,000 | 多元食品這個是 |
| 00:13:50,000 | 00:13:51,000 | 對啊 |
| 00:13:51,000 | 00:13:52,000 | 健康的單元 |
| 00:13:52,000 | 00:13:54,000 | 但是多元我們現在大豆油有問題 |
| 00:13:54,000 | 00:13:55,000 | 苦茶油也有問題 |
| 00:13:55,000 | 00:13:57,000 | 我跟我們說明 |
| 00:13:57,000 | 00:14:00,000 | 對於這個嚴懲不法的廠商 |
| 00:14:00,000 | 00:14:02,000 | 我們一定是這個原則在處理 |
| 00:14:02,000 | 00:14:05,000 | 那麼從這個大豆的事件 |
| 00:14:05,000 | 00:14:07,000 | 我們也進行其他的業者 |
| 00:14:07,000 | 00:14:08,000 | 剛剛我們昨天才發布 |
| 00:14:08,000 | 00:14:10,000 | 有啊你大豆整個要去抽 |
| 00:14:10,000 | 00:14:11,000 | 很好 |
| 00:14:11,000 | 00:14:12,000 | 三個其他的三個 |
| 00:14:12,000 | 00:14:14,000 | 現在是苦茶油 |
| 00:14:14,000 | 00:14:17,000 | 三個大的廠我們都把它抽驗了 |
| 00:14:17,000 | 00:14:19,000 | 所以都出來從他的樣本 |
| 00:14:19,000 | 00:14:21,000 | 到他的成品我們都驗了 |
| 00:14:21,000 | 00:14:23,000 | 所以這個大概來確保這個 |
| 00:14:23,000 | 00:14:26,000 | 在市面上的現在的大豆沙拉 |
| 00:14:26,000 | 00:14:27,000 | 都是安全的 |
| 00:14:27,000 | 00:14:28,000 | 都符合標準的 |
| 00:14:28,000 | 00:14:29,000 | 這個我們已經做了 |
| 00:14:29,000 | 00:14:31,000 | 至於這個苦茶油這個事件 |
| 00:14:31,000 | 00:14:35,000 | 就如我想當然他的來 |
| 00:14:35,000 | 00:14:36,000 | 原料是不一樣 |
| 00:14:36,000 | 00:14:39,000 | 這苦茶子跟大豆是不一樣 |
| 00:14:39,000 | 00:14:41,000 | 不過從我們這一次的這個 |
| 00:14:41,000 | 00:14:43,000 | 中聯的調查可以看得清楚 |
| 00:14:43,000 | 00:14:45,000 | 是在原料的處理過程 |
| 00:14:45,000 | 00:14:49,000 | 跟製程上沒有對應風險等級的調整 |
| 00:14:49,000 | 00:14:51,000 | 產生這個超標的情形 |
| 00:14:51,000 | 00:14:55,000 | 所以它不是在外加進來的東西 |
| 00:14:55,000 | 00:14:56,000 | 它不是外加進來 |
| 00:14:56,000 | 00:14:58,000 | 是在製程當中 |
| 00:14:58,000 | 00:15:00,000 | 沒有去處理掉他的這個風險 |
| 00:15:00,000 | 00:15:02,000 | 這麼因此這個苦茶子 |
| 00:15:02,000 | 00:15:04,000 | 我們也是會按照這樣去瞭解 |
| 00:15:04,000 | 00:15:06,000 | 到底他風險出在哪裡 |
| 00:15:06,000 | 00:15:09,000 | 才能夠這個抽茶抽驗 |
| 00:15:09,000 | 00:15:11,000 | 這個都是下油的做法 |
| 00:15:11,000 | 00:15:13,000 | 那我們希望從源頭上 |
| 00:15:13,000 | 00:15:14,000 | 去瞭解清楚 |
| 00:15:14,000 | 00:15:16,000 | 然後讓他未來的產生 |
| 00:15:16,000 | 00:15:19,000 | 因為畢竟抽驗有限 |
| 00:15:19,000 | 00:15:22,000 | 那要從整個上油的製程上 |
| 00:15:22,000 | 00:15:24,000 | 讓他穩定產生 |
| 00:15:24,000 | 00:15:26,000 | 具品質的這個油品 |
| 00:15:26,000 | 00:15:28,000 | 這個才是我們最終的目標 |
| 00:15:28,000 | 00:15:29,000 | 這我們會來做 |
| 00:15:29,000 | 00:15:31,000 | 那今天再去調查清楚 |
| 00:15:31,000 | 00:15:33,000 | 瞭解他的問題之後 |
| 00:15:33,000 | 00:15:34,000 | 那我們再來規劃 |
| 00:15:34,000 | 00:15:36,000 | 接下來的這些專案做法 |
| 00:15:36,000 | 00:15:37,000 | 對阿你不能 |
| 00:15:37,000 | 00:15:39,000 | 你不能就是速度太緩慢 |
| 00:15:39,000 | 00:15:42,000 | 然後讓消費者持續去購買 |
| 00:15:42,000 | 00:15:44,000 | 他可能還有別家品牌 |
| 00:15:44,000 | 00:15:46,000 | 說不定也是超標 |
| 00:15:46,000 | 00:15:47,000 | 然後他繼續喝 |
| 00:15:47,000 | 00:15:48,000 | 他想說爆出來 |
| 00:15:48,000 | 00:15:49,000 | 現在是聯進跟永貴 |
| 00:15:49,000 | 00:15:51,000 | 我們昨天收到通報 |
| 00:15:51,000 | 00:15:53,000 | 今天就已經進行聯合的稽查了 |
| 00:15:53,000 | 00:15:55,000 | 速度要快 |
| 00:15:55,000 | 00:15:56,000 | 好不好 |
| 00:15:56,000 | 00:15:57,000 | 好謝謝 |
| 00:15:57,000 | 00:15:58,000 | 謝謝委員 |
| 00:15:58,000 | 00:16:00,000 | 好謝謝王明委員發言 |
| 00:16:00,000 | 00:16:01,000 | 謝謝部長達詢 |
| 00:16:01,000 | 00:16:03,000 | 現在休息十分鐘 |