iVOD / 170701
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許宇甄 @ 第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第26次全體委員會議
| Start Time | End Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00:00,000 | 00:00:10,000 | 謝謝主席 我們請法務部政部長 |
| 00:00:10,000 | 00:00:12,000 | 有請政部長 |
| 00:00:16,000 | 00:00:18,000 | 委員好 |
| 00:00:18,000 | 00:00:24,000 | 我們今天是針對中聯致癌遊事件的一個偵查調查 |
| 00:00:24,000 | 00:00:26,000 | 偵辦調查做一個報告 |
| 00:00:26,000 | 00:00:27,000 | 那我想請教你 |
| 00:00:27,000 | 00:00:29,000 | 因為在法務部的報告裡 |
| 00:00:29,000 | 00:00:31,000 | 你強調會在第一時間 |
| 00:00:31,000 | 00:00:34,000 | 嚴查速辦溯源斷根 |
| 00:00:34,000 | 00:00:36,000 | 那以這件事情 |
| 00:00:36,000 | 00:00:38,000 | 6月30日中聯通報之後 |
| 00:00:38,000 | 00:00:42,000 | 請問一下法務部是什麼時候開始調查 |
| 00:00:42,000 | 00:00:44,000 | 跟委員報告 |
| 00:00:44,000 | 00:00:47,000 | 他那個在7月2日 |
| 00:00:47,000 | 00:00:51,000 | 7月2日就有組成一個專案小組 |
| 00:00:51,000 | 00:00:54,000 | 那有做一些規劃 |
| 00:00:54,000 | 00:00:57,000 | 那7月3日就分案 |
| 00:00:57,000 | 00:01:01,000 | 7月6日就已經到中聯去調取相關資料 |
| 00:01:01,000 | 00:01:04,000 | 就跟相關的去調取相關資料 |
| 00:01:04,000 | 00:01:09,000 | 那準備後在7月9日就第一波的一個搜索 |
| 00:01:09,000 | 00:01:13,000 | 所以你們是7月6日才跟業者調取資料嗎 |
| 00:01:13,000 | 00:01:14,000 | 我想這個要準備 |
| 00:01:14,000 | 00:01:16,000 | 一定要去做一個準備 |
| 00:01:16,000 | 00:01:22,000 | 因為這個是很專業的一個食安的一個 |
| 00:01:22,000 | 00:01:25,000 | 這個檢驗檢測都是很專業的 |
| 00:01:25,000 | 00:01:28,000 | 所以這部分要做一個準備 |
| 00:01:28,000 | 00:01:31,000 | 因為從6月30日發生到你們真正去 |
| 00:01:31,000 | 00:01:35,000 | 去搜索7月9日才搜索 |
| 00:01:35,000 | 00:01:38,000 | 搜索那個是還要再準備相關的資料 |
| 00:01:38,000 | 00:01:40,000 | 給向法院申請搜索 |
| 00:01:40,000 | 00:01:41,000 | 是我知道 |
| 00:01:41,000 | 00:01:44,000 | 但是這中間的話就是你調取資料跟搜索 |
| 00:01:44,000 | 00:01:46,000 | 其實還有一點時間差 |
| 00:01:46,000 | 00:01:48,000 | 但是這幾天的時間 |
| 00:01:48,000 | 00:01:51,000 | 業者是不是有可能會針對電腦 |
| 00:01:51,000 | 00:01:55,000 | 通訊記錄檢驗資料跟競銷貨的系統 |
| 00:01:55,000 | 00:01:57,000 | 做一些可能有他們有一些 |
| 00:01:57,000 | 00:01:59,000 | 因為他們自然隱匿 |
| 00:01:59,000 | 00:02:01,000 | 所以他們其實搞不好做一些更改了或刪除了 |
| 00:02:01,000 | 00:02:03,000 | 那針對這個部分的話 |
| 00:02:03,000 | 00:02:05,000 | 是不是你們在搜索的過程中 |
| 00:02:05,000 | 00:02:07,000 | 是不是資料有保全 |
| 00:02:07,000 | 00:02:11,000 | 這部分因為是個案的保全到多少的證據 |
| 00:02:11,000 | 00:02:12,000 | 因為7月9日搜索 |
| 00:02:12,000 | 00:02:14,000 | 那昨天又搜索第二 |
| 00:02:14,000 | 00:02:16,000 | 對所以他們的 |
| 00:02:16,000 | 00:02:17,000 | 你們現在有個參長生涯 |
| 00:02:17,000 | 00:02:19,000 | 我想檢察官還有辦案團隊 |
| 00:02:19,000 | 00:02:21,000 | 辦案團隊認為應該做一個保全 |
| 00:02:21,000 | 00:02:23,000 | 來做一個清查 |
| 00:02:23,000 | 00:02:27,000 | 我想檢察官都會再做一個這部分的保全 |
| 00:02:27,000 | 00:02:29,000 | 因為昨天針對中聯的廠長 |
| 00:02:29,000 | 00:02:31,000 | 你們有申請要羈押嗎 |
| 00:02:31,000 | 00:02:33,000 | 要羈押 |
| 00:02:33,000 | 00:02:36,000 | 那當然也就是說這件中聯的 |
| 00:02:36,000 | 00:02:38,000 | 這個毒油的事件 |
| 00:02:38,000 | 00:02:40,000 | 其實到現在為止其實整個的 |
| 00:02:40,000 | 00:02:42,000 | 不管他的製程缺失或汙染源 |
| 00:02:42,000 | 00:02:44,000 | 或是事故的成因 |
| 00:02:44,000 | 00:02:46,000 | 現在有調查清楚了嗎 |
| 00:02:46,000 | 00:02:48,000 | 我想這部分還要再 |
| 00:02:48,000 | 00:02:49,000 | 調查的一個結果 |
| 00:02:49,000 | 00:02:52,000 | 我們沒辦法去做一個介入干涉指導 |
| 00:02:52,000 | 00:02:54,000 | 但目前是還沒有嗎 |
| 00:02:54,000 | 00:02:55,000 | 因為還沒起訴嗎 |
| 00:02:55,000 | 00:02:57,000 | 我不清楚因為偵查的這部分 |
| 00:02:57,000 | 00:02:58,000 | 我就不問了 |
| 00:02:58,000 | 00:02:59,000 | 看起來是沒有嗎 |
| 00:02:59,000 | 00:03:01,000 | 我想如果調查清楚就會起訴 |
| 00:03:01,000 | 00:03:03,000 | 我想這個因為跟委員報告 |
| 00:03:03,000 | 00:03:06,000 | 因為我想這部分案件也要向上溯源 |
| 00:03:06,000 | 00:03:08,000 | 那也要做一個證據保全 |
| 00:03:08,000 | 00:03:11,000 | 所以這部分我想這部分檢察官會 |
| 00:03:11,000 | 00:03:13,000 | 委員關心的問題都會全力來做 |
| 00:03:13,000 | 00:03:15,000 | 對 可是部長現在 |
| 00:03:15,000 | 00:03:18,000 | 這個衛福部已經先讓19批產品 |
| 00:03:18,000 | 00:03:20,000 | 重新上架了 |
| 00:03:20,000 | 00:03:23,000 | 那針對這個目前這個真相還沒有 |
| 00:03:23,000 | 00:03:26,000 | 查明之前就做這樣的一個動作 |
| 00:03:26,000 | 00:03:28,000 | 事實上會讓消費者誤以為 |
| 00:03:28,000 | 00:03:29,000 | 說產品都沒有問題 |
| 00:03:29,000 | 00:03:32,000 | 那如果說未來啦 |
| 00:03:32,000 | 00:03:34,000 | 未來重新上架之後 |
| 00:03:34,000 | 00:03:37,000 | 又在相關的產品又驗出扁盆筆 |
| 00:03:37,000 | 00:03:39,000 | 還有或是其他有害物質鈔標 |
| 00:03:39,000 | 00:03:40,000 | 那請問這個部分 |
| 00:03:40,000 | 00:03:43,000 | 防曝會做怎麼樣子的一個處理 |
| 00:03:43,000 | 00:03:45,000 | 會不會針對這個 |
| 00:03:45,000 | 00:03:47,000 | 我們的一些決策官員 |
| 00:03:47,000 | 00:03:49,000 | 他是不是有廢持職務的這樣 |
| 00:03:49,000 | 00:03:52,000 | 這個登載不實圖例或其他的相關行責 |
| 00:03:52,000 | 00:03:55,000 | 防護會會來做這樣子的一個處理嗎 |
| 00:03:55,000 | 00:03:57,000 | 這部分我們檢察官就是 |
| 00:03:57,000 | 00:04:00,000 | 有犯罪的行為才能夠一把的偵辦 |
| 00:04:00,000 | 00:04:03,000 | 那如果說我們發現犯罪嫌疑 |
| 00:04:03,000 | 00:04:05,000 | 或者是有告訴告發 |
| 00:04:05,000 | 00:04:06,000 | 就有犯罪嫌疑 |
| 00:04:06,000 | 00:04:08,000 | 那我們就會立案偵辦 |
| 00:04:08,000 | 00:04:09,000 | 那個訴訟法就是 |
| 00:04:09,000 | 00:04:11,000 | 刑事訴訟法第128條加的一個規定 |
| 00:04:11,000 | 00:04:13,000 | 在目前的真相都還沒有明 |
| 00:04:13,000 | 00:04:15,000 | 這個明讓之前也沒有查明之前 |
| 00:04:15,000 | 00:04:16,000 | 那個檢察官會 |
| 00:04:16,000 | 00:04:18,000 | 如果說有犯罪嫌疑 |
| 00:04:18,000 | 00:04:19,000 | 對那我想請教部長說說 |
| 00:04:19,000 | 00:04:21,000 | 如果因為我們的行政官員 |
| 00:04:21,000 | 00:04:25,000 | 做這樣的錯誤的一個上架的一個 |
| 00:04:25,000 | 00:04:26,000 | 最後如果說假設壞了 |
| 00:04:26,000 | 00:04:28,000 | 我們上架又驗出有問 |
| 00:04:28,000 | 00:04:30,000 | 有讀的這個有品的話 |
| 00:04:30,000 | 00:04:31,000 | 那這樣子的話 |
| 00:04:31,000 | 00:04:33,000 | 我們的調查的官員 |
| 00:04:33,000 | 00:04:36,000 | 是不是有觸犯刑法第130條的 |
| 00:04:36,000 | 00:04:37,000 | 廢持職務罪 |
| 00:04:37,000 | 00:04:39,000 | 廢持職務罪這部分 |
| 00:04:39,000 | 00:04:41,000 | 要看那個構成要件 |
| 00:04:41,000 | 00:04:42,000 | 看犯罪的證據 |
| 00:04:42,000 | 00:04:46,000 | 是不是有到達廢持職務量成摘要罪 |
| 00:04:46,000 | 00:04:47,000 | 因為那個就是一個 |
| 00:04:47,000 | 00:04:49,000 | 故意犯的一個犯罪 |
| 00:04:49,000 | 00:04:50,000 | 那不是過失 |
| 00:04:51,000 | 00:04:54,000 | 他那個是130條的那一部分 |
| 00:04:54,000 | 00:04:58,000 | 那這部分如果認定有這樣的一個犯罪 |
| 00:04:58,000 | 00:05:00,000 | 我想檢察官會依據告訴告發 |
| 00:05:00,000 | 00:05:02,000 | 或者是職權來做一個告發 |
| 00:05:02,000 | 00:05:04,000 | 那另外再請教一下 |
| 00:05:04,000 | 00:05:05,000 | 請教一下政務長就是說 |
| 00:05:05,000 | 00:05:09,000 | 目前法院扣押四家涉案名下的不動產 |
| 00:05:09,000 | 00:05:12,000 | 剛剛你有提到說大概是兩億多 |
| 00:05:12,000 | 00:05:14,000 | 兩億多的一個範圍內 |
| 00:05:14,000 | 00:05:18,000 | 因為他是那個跟法院有申請扣押 |
| 00:05:18,000 | 00:05:21,000 | 這是屬於一個財產的一個保全 |
| 00:05:21,000 | 00:05:24,000 | 那這部分我們是在一個 |
| 00:05:24,000 | 00:05:25,000 | 跟法院申請扣押 |
| 00:05:25,000 | 00:05:26,000 | 他扣押財產的價值是 |
| 00:05:26,000 | 00:05:29,000 | 兩億五千三百多萬元的不動產 |
| 00:05:29,000 | 00:05:33,000 | 那法院準扣押了一億兩千六百萬元 |
| 00:05:33,000 | 00:05:36,000 | 就這個範圍內扣了一億兩千六百萬元 |
| 00:05:36,000 | 00:05:39,000 | 那請問一下你們扣押這些金額 |
| 00:05:39,000 | 00:05:42,000 | 是不是足以保全犯罪所得行政罰鍰 |
| 00:05:42,000 | 00:05:43,000 | 跟消費者賠償 |
| 00:05:43,000 | 00:05:46,000 | 因為這是第一步的一個 |
| 00:05:46,000 | 00:05:49,000 | 一個財產申請的一個扣押 |
| 00:05:49,000 | 00:05:51,000 | 那這些的是不是的不法所得 |
| 00:05:51,000 | 00:05:52,000 | 這個犯罪報紙 |
| 00:05:52,000 | 00:05:54,000 | 因為目前我們還沒有 |
| 00:05:54,000 | 00:05:57,000 | 還沒有做還是希望就是說 |
| 00:05:57,000 | 00:05:59,000 | 這是一個推估 |
| 00:05:59,000 | 00:06:00,000 | 一個推估 |
| 00:06:00,000 | 00:06:01,000 | 我們跟部長報告 |
| 00:06:01,000 | 00:06:02,000 | 因為現在我們案件還在偵查中 |
| 00:06:02,000 | 00:06:05,000 | 所以我們依據這些案件進程的時程 |
| 00:06:05,000 | 00:06:07,000 | 一些的我們會再做一些的 |
| 00:06:07,000 | 00:06:09,000 | 一個另外一個一個作為 |
| 00:06:09,000 | 00:06:10,000 | 所以我跟部長報告 |
| 00:06:10,000 | 00:06:11,000 | 你可以看一下 |
| 00:06:11,000 | 00:06:12,000 | 所以現在這個 |
| 00:06:12,000 | 00:06:14,000 | 因為消基會跟消保協會 |
| 00:06:14,000 | 00:06:17,000 | 已經這個申請團體訴訟 |
| 00:06:17,000 | 00:06:18,000 | 針對這個案件 |
| 00:06:18,000 | 00:06:22,000 | 所以你看團體訴訟啟動求償金 |
| 00:06:22,000 | 00:06:25,000 | 估破可能高達六十億 |
| 00:06:25,000 | 00:06:27,000 | 所以我們現在扣押了他 |
| 00:06:27,000 | 00:06:30,000 | 名下可能一億多的這樣子不動產 |
| 00:06:30,000 | 00:06:31,000 | 那請問一下 |
| 00:06:31,000 | 00:06:33,000 | 就算當後來我們證明 |
| 00:06:33,000 | 00:06:34,000 | 這個消費者勝訴 |
| 00:06:34,000 | 00:06:35,000 | 然後但是呢 |
| 00:06:35,000 | 00:06:37,000 | 事實上的業者你現在扣押的 |
| 00:06:37,000 | 00:06:38,000 | 他早就脫產了 |
| 00:06:38,000 | 00:06:39,000 | 他根本就不處以賠償 |
| 00:06:39,000 | 00:06:40,000 | 這樣子的一個 |
| 00:06:40,000 | 00:06:42,000 | 這麼高達六十 |
| 00:06:42,000 | 00:06:43,000 | 可能超過六十億的 |
| 00:06:43,000 | 00:06:44,000 | 這樣子的一個金額 |
| 00:06:44,000 | 00:06:46,000 | 那請問這個部分的話 |
| 00:06:46,000 | 00:06:48,000 | 保固應該要怎麼樣來去處理 |
| 00:06:48,000 | 00:06:49,000 | 多管齊下當然 |
| 00:06:49,000 | 00:06:51,000 | 我們刑事就以刑事案件 |
| 00:06:51,000 | 00:06:53,000 | 做一個財產的一個保全 |
| 00:06:53,000 | 00:06:55,000 | 但不能那是多管齊下 |
| 00:06:55,000 | 00:06:57,000 | 當然在民事 |
| 00:06:57,000 | 00:06:59,000 | 這可以用民事保全程序 |
| 00:06:59,000 | 00:07:01,000 | 所以消保處這部分 |
| 00:07:01,000 | 00:07:03,000 | 也可以依據那個 |
| 00:07:03,000 | 00:07:07,000 | 消保法的相關的一個規定 |
| 00:07:07,000 | 00:07:09,000 | 然後依照民事訴訟法 |
| 00:07:09,000 | 00:07:10,000 | 這部分我們是不是請消保處 |
| 00:07:10,000 | 00:07:12,000 | 來做一個答覆 |
| 00:07:12,000 | 00:07:14,000 | 因為有關於這部分 |
| 00:07:14,000 | 00:07:15,000 | 那我們先 |
| 00:07:15,000 | 00:07:16,000 | 希望就是說法務部 |
| 00:07:16,000 | 00:07:18,000 | 你們有這樣子可以去扣押 |
| 00:07:18,000 | 00:07:20,000 | 這個名下的不動產 |
| 00:07:20,000 | 00:07:21,000 | 但是現在看起來 |
| 00:07:21,000 | 00:07:23,000 | 扣押的金額顯然是 |
| 00:07:23,000 | 00:07:24,000 | 有很大的一個差距 |
| 00:07:24,000 | 00:07:25,000 | 先扣了第一批 |
| 00:07:25,000 | 00:07:28,000 | 那當然我們會按照這些的案件 |
| 00:07:28,000 | 00:07:29,000 | 可是有可能說 |
| 00:07:29,000 | 00:07:30,000 | 你們在扣的時候 |
| 00:07:30,000 | 00:07:31,000 | 他可能都已經脫產了 |
| 00:07:31,000 | 00:07:32,000 | 這邊我們會關注這個問題 |
| 00:07:32,000 | 00:07:33,000 | 的確我們預防這個問題 |
| 00:07:33,000 | 00:07:34,000 | 才會有財產保全 |
| 00:07:34,000 | 00:07:35,000 | 所以可能針對這個部分 |
| 00:07:35,000 | 00:07:36,000 | 可能也要 |
| 00:07:36,000 | 00:07:38,000 | 就是檢方應該要先清查 |
| 00:07:38,000 | 00:07:39,000 | 這個涉案公司 |
| 00:07:39,000 | 00:07:41,000 | 跟高層的金融帳戶存款 |
| 00:07:41,000 | 00:07:43,000 | 有價證券 應收帳款 |
| 00:07:43,000 | 00:07:44,000 | 跟關係企業 |
| 00:07:44,000 | 00:07:45,000 | 跟海外的資產 |
| 00:07:45,000 | 00:07:47,000 | 避免說他們在這段時間 |
| 00:07:47,000 | 00:07:48,000 | 因為 |
| 00:07:48,000 | 00:07:50,000 | 算是在司法的這個整個過程 |
| 00:07:50,000 | 00:07:52,000 | 可能需要很長一段時間 |
| 00:07:52,000 | 00:07:53,000 | 等到真正勝訴的時候 |
| 00:07:53,000 | 00:07:55,000 | 消費者要求償也無門 |
| 00:07:55,000 | 00:07:56,000 | 是 所以這個部分 |
| 00:07:56,000 | 00:07:57,000 | 這個多管齊下 |
| 00:07:57,000 | 00:07:58,000 | 有刑事明事 |
| 00:07:58,000 | 00:07:59,000 | 還有刑事的控制 |
| 00:07:59,000 | 00:08:00,000 | 那剛剛您講說要請這個 |
| 00:08:04,000 | 00:08:05,000 | 是 |
| 00:08:05,000 | 00:08:06,000 | 你好 |
| 00:08:06,000 | 00:08:07,000 | 我想這個部分 |
| 00:08:07,000 | 00:08:09,000 | 就是如同剛剛部長講的 |
| 00:08:09,000 | 00:08:10,000 | 就是我們會多管齊下 |
| 00:08:10,000 | 00:08:11,000 | 那這個部分 |
| 00:08:11,000 | 00:08:13,000 | 因為有兩個消保團體來進行 |
| 00:08:13,000 | 00:08:15,000 | 我們也會跟他們做一些 |
| 00:08:15,000 | 00:08:16,000 | 這個部分的討論 |
| 00:08:17,000 | 00:08:18,000 | 那討論之後呢 |
| 00:08:19,000 | 00:08:21,000 | 當然因為看起來 |
| 00:08:21,000 | 00:08:22,000 | 居然多管齊下 |
| 00:08:22,000 | 00:08:24,000 | 如果法務部都只扣押了 |
| 00:08:24,000 | 00:08:26,000 | 一樣我們就是說 |
| 00:08:26,000 | 00:08:27,000 | 有假扣押假扣押的 |
| 00:08:27,000 | 00:08:29,000 | 民事訴訟法上面的要件 |
| 00:08:29,000 | 00:08:30,000 | 所以因為現在 |
| 00:08:30,000 | 00:08:32,000 | 消保團體才開放給這個 |
| 00:08:32,000 | 00:08:33,000 | 大家來登記 |
| 00:08:33,000 | 00:08:35,000 | 就是民眾消保團體才來登記 |
| 00:08:35,000 | 00:08:36,000 | 所以他必須要有一些評估 |
| 00:08:36,000 | 00:08:38,000 | 當然就說我們知道說 |
| 00:08:38,000 | 00:08:39,000 | 有一定的程序 |
| 00:08:39,000 | 00:08:40,000 | 可是這樣聽起來 |
| 00:08:40,000 | 00:08:42,000 | 民眾是聽不下去的 |
| 00:08:42,000 | 00:08:43,000 | 因為如果這樣子的話 |
| 00:08:43,000 | 00:08:44,000 | 有可能到最後 |
| 00:08:44,000 | 00:08:46,000 | 即使是勝訴了 |
| 00:08:46,000 | 00:08:47,000 | 當然看起來勝訴的 |
| 00:08:47,000 | 00:08:48,000 | 這個機率是非常高 |
| 00:08:48,000 | 00:08:50,000 | 也求償無門 |
| 00:08:50,000 | 00:08:52,000 | 也沒有辦法得到這樣的保障 |
| 00:08:52,000 | 00:08:53,000 | 那所以針對這個部分 |
| 00:08:53,000 | 00:08:55,000 | 也要請這個法務部這邊 |
| 00:08:55,000 | 00:08:56,000 | 是不是能夠 |
| 00:08:56,000 | 00:08:58,000 | 也積極來去協助我們 |
| 00:08:58,000 | 00:09:01,000 | 針對這個我們求償的這些 |
| 00:09:01,000 | 00:09:04,000 | 打這個我們的這個團體訴訟的 |
| 00:09:04,000 | 00:09:07,000 | 這些協會來協助他們 |
| 00:09:07,000 | 00:09:09,000 | 做一些相關應有的 |
| 00:09:09,000 | 00:09:10,000 | 可以保全證據 |
| 00:09:10,000 | 00:09:12,000 | 或者是可以這個求償的 |
| 00:09:12,000 | 00:09:13,000 | 一個相關動作 |
| 00:09:15,000 | 00:09:16,000 | 可以嗎 |
| 00:09:16,000 | 00:09:18,000 | 這個的確因為多管齊下 |
| 00:09:18,000 | 00:09:20,000 | 當然還有那個地方政府 |
| 00:09:20,000 | 00:09:22,000 | 消保官也可以成立一個 |
| 00:09:22,000 | 00:09:24,000 | 損害賠償的一個信託裝護 |
| 00:09:24,000 | 00:09:26,000 | 那另外那個我們行政機關 |
| 00:09:26,000 | 00:09:28,000 | 這部分也可以做行政的一個扣留 |
| 00:09:28,000 | 00:09:30,000 | 我想多管齊下來保障消費 |
| 00:09:30,000 | 00:09:32,000 | 那個消費者的一個權利 |
| 00:09:32,000 | 00:09:35,000 | OK好因為這是全國主命的實案事件 |
| 00:09:35,000 | 00:09:38,000 | 所以真的我覺得廣大的消費者的權益 |
| 00:09:38,000 | 00:09:39,000 | 才是我們最該要保障 |
| 00:09:39,000 | 00:09:41,000 | 跟最後應該還給他們一個 |
| 00:09:41,000 | 00:09:43,000 | 這個應有的一個賠償 |
| 00:09:43,000 | 00:09:44,000 | 那這部分要請這個法務部 |
| 00:09:44,000 | 00:09:47,000 | 請消保會一起共同來努力 |
| 00:09:47,000 | 00:09:48,000 | 那另外謝謝部長請回 |
| 00:09:48,000 | 00:09:50,000 | 現在請全序部部長 |
| 00:09:50,000 | 00:09:51,000 | 市部長謝謝 |
| 00:09:53,000 | 00:09:54,000 | 好請市部長 |
| 00:09:59,000 | 00:10:00,000 | 部長好 |
| 00:10:00,000 | 00:10:01,000 | 部長好 |
| 00:10:01,000 | 00:10:04,000 | 今天想請教你的是有關這個 |
| 00:10:04,000 | 00:10:06,000 | 旋轉門條款 |
| 00:10:06,000 | 00:10:07,000 | 因為我們可以知道就是 |
| 00:10:07,000 | 00:10:10,000 | 像最近發生的這個國泰投信的 |
| 00:10:10,000 | 00:10:11,000 | 重大內控事件 |
| 00:10:11,000 | 00:10:13,000 | 有波及超過5萬名投資人 |
| 00:10:13,000 | 00:10:15,000 | 也再次引發外界對金融監理 |
| 00:10:15,000 | 00:10:17,000 | 跟公司治理的質疑 |
| 00:10:17,000 | 00:10:18,000 | 那與此同時 |
| 00:10:18,000 | 00:10:20,000 | 前金管會的主委王立琳 |
| 00:10:20,000 | 00:10:23,000 | 跟前副主委吳當傑 |
| 00:10:23,000 | 00:10:25,000 | 擔任國泰體系的獨董 |
| 00:10:25,000 | 00:10:27,000 | 讓人家覺得是金管會 |
| 00:10:27,000 | 00:10:30,000 | 無法確實這個管理金錢的 |
| 00:10:30,000 | 00:10:32,000 | 一個原因之一 |
| 00:10:32,000 | 00:10:34,000 | 而且前經濟部長王美花 |
| 00:10:34,000 | 00:10:35,000 | 也卸任不到一個月 |
| 00:10:35,000 | 00:10:39,000 | 就進入台新金控跟台新銀行董事會 |
| 00:10:39,000 | 00:10:42,000 | 那這些轉任目前並沒有違法 |
| 00:10:42,000 | 00:10:45,000 | 但是卻凸顯了現行的旋轉門條款 |
| 00:10:45,000 | 00:10:47,000 | 經已職務直接相關 |
| 00:10:47,000 | 00:10:51,000 | 跟三年期限違戒來處理 |
| 00:10:51,000 | 00:10:54,000 | 那也難以處理這高階官員離職後 |
| 00:10:54,000 | 00:10:57,000 | 所帶來的政策資訊行政人脈 |
| 00:10:57,000 | 00:10:58,000 | 跟實質的影響率 |
| 00:10:58,000 | 00:11:01,000 | 那在你們的報告裡面也提到說 |
| 00:11:01,000 | 00:11:03,000 | 這個從85年的認定標準 |
| 00:11:03,000 | 00:11:05,000 | 到現在已經超過30年了 |
| 00:11:05,000 | 00:11:07,000 | 可能不符合現在的政府 |
| 00:11:07,000 | 00:11:10,000 | 跟企業的一個複雜的關係 |
| 00:11:10,000 | 00:11:11,000 | 但到目前為止 |
| 00:11:11,000 | 00:11:14,000 | 請問全序部有做什麼樣子的一個因應 |
| 00:11:14,000 | 00:11:16,000 | 我們主要就是在114年 |
| 00:11:16,000 | 00:11:18,000 | 又做了一個補充的規定 |
| 00:11:18,000 | 00:11:21,000 | 把適用的什麼叫盈利事業 |
| 00:11:21,000 | 00:11:24,000 | 不會是只有指目的事業主管機關 |
| 00:11:24,000 | 00:11:26,000 | 只要是包括法定 |
| 00:11:26,000 | 00:11:29,000 | 這個機關法定職長對這個盈利事業 |
| 00:11:29,000 | 00:11:33,000 | 具有監督或管理的權利主管 |
| 00:11:33,000 | 00:11:35,000 | 都算是進來 |
| 00:11:35,000 | 00:11:37,000 | 然後另外一個我們也增加說 |
| 00:11:37,000 | 00:11:39,000 | 如果涉及到投資業務 |
| 00:11:39,000 | 00:11:42,000 | 或者是委託經營關係 |
| 00:11:42,000 | 00:11:43,000 | 也都加進來 |
| 00:11:43,000 | 00:11:45,000 | 我想委員剛剛指教一個問題 |
| 00:11:45,000 | 00:11:46,000 | 比較偏說 |
| 00:11:46,000 | 00:11:48,000 | 我們現在整個大的制度 |
| 00:11:48,000 | 00:11:51,000 | 在台灣過的習慣都還是用特定職務 |
| 00:11:51,000 | 00:11:54,000 | 但是不同的國家 |
| 00:11:54,000 | 00:11:57,000 | 因為你剛剛講的114年這個韓式 |
| 00:11:57,000 | 00:12:00,000 | 事實上是不拘束刑事這個法院的 |
| 00:12:00,000 | 00:12:03,000 | 所以說標準已經過時了 |
| 00:12:03,000 | 00:12:07,000 | 韓式又沒有司法的拘束力 |
| 00:12:07,000 | 00:12:09,000 | 那請問一下就是針對這個部分 |
| 00:12:09,000 | 00:12:12,000 | 我們這個全序部是不是會提出修法 |
| 00:12:12,000 | 00:12:14,000 | 應該這樣講 |
| 00:12:14,000 | 00:12:18,000 | 因為我們有關這個部的法律的法則 |
| 00:12:18,000 | 00:12:19,000 | 是刑事法 |
| 00:12:19,000 | 00:12:21,000 | 就是違反宣傳法是刑事法 |
| 00:12:21,000 | 00:12:22,000 | 不是行政法 |
| 00:12:22,000 | 00:12:24,000 | 那根據大夥跟輝略的解釋 |
| 00:12:24,000 | 00:12:27,000 | 任何行政部門所基於職權所做的 |
| 00:12:27,000 | 00:12:30,000 | 韓式並不必然拘束法院的一個 |
| 00:12:30,000 | 00:12:33,000 | 事實上也有一些個案 |
| 00:12:33,000 | 00:12:36,000 | 法院並沒有採取刑事機關法 |
| 00:12:36,000 | 00:12:38,000 | 所以這個部分其實是法制的一個問題 |
| 00:12:38,000 | 00:12:40,000 | 那我想要回過頭來談的可能 |
| 00:12:40,000 | 00:12:44,000 | 更大議題是說確實有一些特定的行為 |
| 00:12:44,000 | 00:12:47,000 | 應不應該要納入規範 |
| 00:12:47,000 | 00:12:49,000 | 這個不同的國家不同的做法 |
| 00:12:49,000 | 00:12:52,000 | 所以這部分我們部裡面會再繼續 |
| 00:12:52,000 | 00:12:54,000 | 大家來討論看 |
| 00:12:54,000 | 00:12:56,000 | 因為那個再把行為納入規範 |
| 00:12:56,000 | 00:12:58,000 | 其實那個會很大很大 |
| 00:12:58,000 | 00:13:01,000 | 針對這個部分是不是有可能會提出 |
| 00:13:01,000 | 00:13:03,000 | 有關修正第16條的相關的 |
| 00:13:03,000 | 00:13:05,000 | 目前確實還沒有 |
| 00:13:05,000 | 00:13:07,000 | 因為還沒有這個規劃 |
| 00:13:07,000 | 00:13:09,000 | 但是我們會繼續來 |
| 00:13:09,000 | 00:13:11,000 | 跟機關來大家研商 |
| 00:13:11,000 | 00:13:13,000 | 這個部分到底是不需要 |
| 00:13:13,000 | 00:13:14,000 | 部長可不可以給我一個時間 |
| 00:13:14,000 | 00:13:15,000 | 就是說你們有可能 |
| 00:13:15,000 | 00:13:17,000 | 何時會提出這樣子的一個修法 |
| 00:13:17,000 | 00:13:18,000 | 我應該跟委員報告說 |
| 00:13:18,000 | 00:13:19,000 | 我現在沒有辦法跟委員 |
| 00:13:19,000 | 00:13:22,000 | 下一個結論說一定會提修法 |
| 00:13:22,000 | 00:13:25,000 | 但是我們願意再徵詢機關這部分的意見 |
| 00:13:25,000 | 00:13:28,000 | 因為它真的影響還蠻大的 |
| 00:13:28,000 | 00:13:31,000 | 那既然部長也認為影響蠻大的 |
| 00:13:31,000 | 00:13:33,000 | 這個影響不是只有高階的公務同仁 |
| 00:13:33,000 | 00:13:35,000 | 這不僅僅影響政務首長 |
| 00:13:35,000 | 00:13:37,000 | 公務同仁都會受到影響 |
| 00:13:37,000 | 00:13:39,000 | 既然部長剛也提到說這影響蠻大 |
| 00:13:39,000 | 00:13:41,000 | 所以還是希望全序部能夠 |
| 00:13:41,000 | 00:13:43,000 | 盡快的提出修法好嗎 |
| 00:13:43,000 | 00:13:44,000 | 我們努力 |
| 00:13:44,000 | 00:13:45,000 | OK謝謝 |