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莊瑞雄 @ 第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第26次全體委員會議
| Start Time | End Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00:00,000 | 00:00:10,540 | 請林副部長林靜怡林次長 |
| 00:00:10,540 | 00:00:11,540 | 請林次長 |
| 00:00:11,540 | 00:00:15,540 | 委員早 |
| 00:00:15,540 | 00:00:17,140 | 次長我要請教 |
| 00:00:17,140 | 00:00:22,940 | 今天行政院針對於整個食品安全管理法 |
| 00:00:22,940 | 00:00:27,940 | 行政院會議接下來也要有修法 |
| 00:00:27,980 | 00:00:29,980 | 是不是你簡單講一下 |
| 00:00:29,980 | 00:00:34,980 | 現在針對整個食安有致癌物 |
| 00:00:34,980 | 00:00:36,980 | 這樣的一個殘留超標 |
| 00:00:36,980 | 00:00:38,980 | 以後我們整個食安法的修法 |
| 00:00:38,980 | 00:00:40,980 | 你簡單看看 |
| 00:00:40,980 | 00:00:42,980 | 你真正要把這個漏洞把它補起來的話 |
| 00:00:42,980 | 00:00:44,980 | 你的修法方向到底是怎樣 |
| 00:00:44,980 | 00:00:45,980 | 好 謝謝委員 |
| 00:00:45,980 | 00:00:48,980 | 我想這一次大家關注食安法修法 |
| 00:00:48,980 | 00:00:50,980 | 那我們今天已經把修法的查案 |
| 00:00:50,980 | 00:00:52,980 | 到行政院院會去做討論 |
| 00:00:52,980 | 00:00:53,980 | 主要幾個部分 |
| 00:00:53,980 | 00:00:55,980 | 我們這一次包含後面 |
| 00:00:56,019 | 00:00:58,019 | 還有在網際網路的一些管理 |
| 00:00:58,019 | 00:01:00,019 | 所以我們總共修17條 |
| 00:01:00,019 | 00:01:03,019 | 另外還會再新增一個食品業者 |
| 00:01:03,019 | 00:01:05,019 | 及認證認可 |
| 00:01:05,019 | 00:01:09,020 | 檢驗機構監測檢驗及通報管理辦法 |
| 00:01:09,020 | 00:01:10,020 | 簡單來說就是說 |
| 00:01:10,020 | 00:01:12,020 | 第一個部分我們再一次把 |
| 00:01:12,020 | 00:01:16,020 | 中央跟地方兩邊的這個權責做個劃分 |
| 00:01:16,020 | 00:01:18,020 | 另外尤其是在明定就是說 |
| 00:01:18,020 | 00:01:20,020 | 在這種重大食品安全事件的時候 |
| 00:01:20,020 | 00:01:23,020 | 中央這邊我們來成立一個相關應變指揮 |
| 00:01:23,020 | 00:01:25,020 | 來統籌全國 |
| 00:01:25,060 | 00:01:28,060 | 這一次事實上就對中央的一些 |
| 00:01:28,060 | 00:01:30,060 | 相關範圍有些難以釐清 |
| 00:01:30,060 | 00:01:32,060 | 第二個部分很重要的事情就是 |
| 00:01:32,060 | 00:01:33,060 | 我們增訂食品業者 |
| 00:01:33,060 | 00:01:35,060 | 他要有食品安全監測計畫 |
| 00:01:35,060 | 00:01:38,060 | 其中一定範圍一定規模的食品業者 |
| 00:01:38,060 | 00:01:40,060 | 第一個他要自設實驗室 |
| 00:01:40,060 | 00:01:42,060 | 第二個他的自設實驗室要經過驗證 |
| 00:01:42,060 | 00:01:44,060 | 然後第三個就是這一次 |
| 00:01:44,060 | 00:01:45,060 | 我們遇到會有延遲通報的問題 |
| 00:01:45,060 | 00:01:50,060 | 所以說在明定就是不論是被驗證的實驗室 |
| 00:01:50,060 | 00:01:53,060 | 或者是本身業者自主檢驗的實驗室 |
| 00:01:53,100 | 00:01:55,100 | 他都要在24小時之內 |
| 00:01:55,100 | 00:01:56,100 | 有發現問題的時候 |
| 00:01:56,100 | 00:01:58,100 | 24小時之內要通報主管機關 |
| 00:01:58,100 | 00:02:00,100 | 我的問題就來了就很簡單 |
| 00:02:00,100 | 00:02:02,100 | 站在民眾的一個立場的話 |
| 00:02:02,100 | 00:02:04,100 | 其實就是第一個食品業者 |
| 00:02:04,100 | 00:02:07,100 | 第二個你說我們有三級品管嘛 |
| 00:02:07,100 | 00:02:09,100 | 第一級品管我業者 |
| 00:02:09,100 | 00:02:12,100 | 我今天生產我今天是一個製造商 |
| 00:02:12,100 | 00:02:15,100 | 不管我叫中聯或者叫什麼樣的一個大同意 |
| 00:02:15,100 | 00:02:16,100 | 叫什麼樣的一個廠商 |
| 00:02:16,100 | 00:02:18,100 | 我東西做出來以後 |
| 00:02:18,100 | 00:02:20,100 | 我要自主去做一個檢驗嘛 |
| 00:02:20,100 | 00:02:21,100 | 那檢驗完了以後呢 |
| 00:02:21,140 | 00:02:23,140 | 該通報我們這一次看的是該通報的 |
| 00:02:23,140 | 00:02:24,140 | 他此言去做一個通報 |
| 00:02:24,140 | 00:02:27,140 | 那這一個地方我們現在改革的部分在哪裡 |
| 00:02:27,140 | 00:02:29,140 | 就是讓他24小時之內 |
| 00:02:29,140 | 00:02:31,140 | 他發現他的報告一場就要通報 |
| 00:02:31,140 | 00:02:32,140 | 就是要強制了 |
| 00:02:32,140 | 00:02:35,140 | 然後這家廠商自己廠商如果隱匿的話 |
| 00:02:35,140 | 00:02:37,140 | 有時候他是委託實驗室 |
| 00:02:37,140 | 00:02:39,140 | 實驗室24小時之內發現一場也要通報 |
| 00:02:39,140 | 00:02:41,140 | 那就變成到第二級 |
| 00:02:41,140 | 00:02:43,140 | 委託第三班公正單位的部分 |
| 00:02:43,140 | 00:02:45,140 | 也不能說我第三班公正單位我驗完以後 |
| 00:02:45,140 | 00:02:47,140 | 是你廠商來委託我的 |
| 00:02:47,140 | 00:02:49,140 | 所是我就交還給你這家廠商 |
| 00:02:49,140 | 00:02:50,140 | 然後你就給我放在抽屜裡 |
| 00:02:50,179 | 00:02:51,179 | 然後你就可以放在抽屜 |
| 00:02:51,179 | 00:02:53,179 | 那個現在就是我們現在碰到的一個問題 |
| 00:02:53,179 | 00:02:55,179 | 那所以這一次修法裡面 |
| 00:02:55,179 | 00:02:57,179 | 這些都會去做一個解決 |
| 00:02:57,179 | 00:02:58,179 | 那我問題來了 |
| 00:02:58,179 | 00:03:00,179 | 你說你這個監測計畫 |
| 00:03:00,179 | 00:03:02,179 | 監測計畫怎麼這麼瞎作業 |
| 00:03:02,179 | 00:03:05,179 | 監測計畫你怎麼樣去要求他落實 |
| 00:03:05,179 | 00:03:07,179 | 我監測就有了我全部都有了 |
| 00:03:07,179 | 00:03:09,179 | 比如你有來幫我調查 |
| 00:03:09,179 | 00:03:11,179 | 你如果沒有幫我調查的時候 |
| 00:03:11,179 | 00:03:13,179 | 我只要這個監測的話 |
| 00:03:13,179 | 00:03:17,179 | 你怎麼樣去確保他一個真正的去落實 |
| 00:03:17,179 | 00:03:19,179 | 否則這個大家都可以寫得很漂亮 |
| 00:03:19,220 | 00:03:20,220 | 第二項 |
| 00:03:20,220 | 00:03:22,220 | 第二項我要跟你請教的就是 |
| 00:03:22,220 | 00:03:25,220 | 你這個自主檢驗裡面 |
| 00:03:25,220 | 00:03:28,220 | 我們剛才說要求他去做一個強制的 |
| 00:03:28,220 | 00:03:30,220 | 但是有一個問題 |
| 00:03:30,220 | 00:03:32,220 | 就是說我們要去追蹤 |
| 00:03:32,220 | 00:03:34,220 | 我們這個追蹤的一個系統 |
| 00:03:34,220 | 00:03:37,220 | 我相信衛福部現在食藥署應該就有了 |
| 00:03:37,220 | 00:03:39,220 | 你這個追蹤的一個系統 |
| 00:03:39,220 | 00:03:41,220 | 你像比如說我這一批生產出來 |
| 00:03:41,220 | 00:03:45,220 | 我今天去手上切生產出來之後 |
| 00:03:45,220 | 00:03:47,220 | 那你這些追蹤系統 |
| 00:03:47,260 | 00:03:49,260 | 我什麼時候要去申報 |
| 00:03:49,260 | 00:03:51,260 | 我這個會生產的 |
| 00:03:51,260 | 00:03:53,260 | 你時間點要放在什麼地方 |
| 00:03:53,260 | 00:03:56,260 | 你如果我今天7月1號生產出來 |
| 00:03:56,260 | 00:03:59,260 | 那我到下個月再來做一個申報的話 |
| 00:03:59,260 | 00:04:01,260 | 都吃到他罵了 |
| 00:04:01,260 | 00:04:03,260 | 都吃到他罵了 |
| 00:04:03,260 | 00:04:05,260 | 這個部分你怎麼處理 |
| 00:04:05,260 | 00:04:06,260 | 我們目前的規定是 |
| 00:04:06,260 | 00:04:08,260 | 下一個月的10號之前 |
| 00:04:08,260 | 00:04:09,260 | 是 |
| 00:04:09,260 | 00:04:10,260 | 問題來了 |
| 00:04:10,260 | 00:04:12,260 | 我說次長我的問題就這麼簡單 |
| 00:04:12,260 | 00:04:13,260 | 我站在消費者的立場 |
| 00:04:13,260 | 00:04:15,260 | 我們現在的政府部門 |
| 00:04:15,260 | 00:04:16,260 | 我們相關的一個規定是說 |
| 00:04:16,300 | 00:04:17,300 | 我生產出來以後 |
| 00:04:17,300 | 00:04:20,300 | 我下個月10號我要來做申報 |
| 00:04:20,300 | 00:04:22,300 | 萬一這一批生產出來的 |
| 00:04:22,300 | 00:04:23,300 | 馬上出問題 |
| 00:04:23,300 | 00:04:25,300 | 出問題以後 |
| 00:04:25,300 | 00:04:27,300 | 我下個月才申報 |
| 00:04:27,300 | 00:04:29,300 | 你到時候你說要追蹤 |
| 00:04:29,300 | 00:04:30,300 | 你要去勾稽 |
| 00:04:30,300 | 00:04:31,300 | 留什麼位置 |
| 00:04:31,300 | 00:04:32,300 | 哪怕你有大數據 |
| 00:04:32,300 | 00:04:33,300 | 哪怕你有AI |
| 00:04:33,300 | 00:04:34,300 | 都在那裡打人 |
| 00:04:34,300 | 00:04:36,300 | 謝謝委員提醒 |
| 00:04:36,300 | 00:04:39,300 | 這個部分我們在相關的執法規 |
| 00:04:39,300 | 00:04:40,300 | 我們再去補強這一塊 |
| 00:04:40,300 | 00:04:41,300 | 就是我們會這一次 |
| 00:04:41,300 | 00:04:43,300 | 當然第一個事情是針對 |
| 00:04:43,300 | 00:04:45,300 | 一定規模的相關的業者 |
| 00:04:45,340 | 00:04:47,340 | 我們這邊剛委員所提到的 |
| 00:04:47,340 | 00:04:48,340 | 他的這一個 |
| 00:04:48,340 | 00:04:50,340 | 就是制程相關 |
| 00:04:50,340 | 00:04:51,340 | 我們要求他的部分 |
| 00:04:51,340 | 00:04:53,340 | 我們會做中央這邊 |
| 00:04:53,340 | 00:04:54,340 | 他的制程還有相關的 |
| 00:04:54,340 | 00:04:56,340 | 這個制定的檢驗辦法 |
| 00:04:56,340 | 00:04:57,340 | 等等監測計畫 |
| 00:04:57,340 | 00:04:58,340 | 要由中央來核定 |
| 00:04:58,340 | 00:05:00,340 | 後續地方政府才比較有辦法去查 |
| 00:05:00,340 | 00:05:01,340 | 這是第一個 |
| 00:05:01,340 | 00:05:02,340 | 那剛剛所提到 |
| 00:05:02,340 | 00:05:03,340 | 如果是像這一類的業者 |
| 00:05:03,340 | 00:05:05,340 | 他的登錄追蹤系統 |
| 00:05:05,340 | 00:05:07,340 | 這個部分我們把它縮短他的時間 |
| 00:05:07,340 | 00:05:08,340 | 謝謝委員提醒這件事情 |
| 00:05:08,340 | 00:05:09,340 | 其實這一次 |
| 00:05:09,340 | 00:05:11,340 | 你看這招委很用心 |
| 00:05:11,340 | 00:05:12,340 | 把各部會 |
| 00:05:12,340 | 00:05:13,340 | 連法務部也都找來了 |
| 00:05:13,340 | 00:05:14,340 | 連正部長也來 |
| 00:05:14,380 | 00:05:15,380 | 我為什麼不叫他上來 |
| 00:05:15,380 | 00:05:16,380 | 你知道嗎 |
| 00:05:16,380 | 00:05:17,380 | 他上來的時候 |
| 00:05:17,380 | 00:05:19,380 | 一般都要去諮詢跟監督 |
| 00:05:19,380 | 00:05:20,380 | 他這次上來 |
| 00:05:20,380 | 00:05:21,380 | 我算要打他一頓 |
| 00:05:21,380 | 00:05:23,380 | 因為確實他這是非常的一個 |
| 00:05:23,380 | 00:05:24,380 | 法務部非常的一個迅速 |
| 00:05:24,380 | 00:05:25,380 | 馬上通令高監署 |
| 00:05:25,380 | 00:05:26,380 | 那因為這涉及到 |
| 00:05:26,380 | 00:05:28,380 | 全國各個縣市裡面 |
| 00:05:28,380 | 00:05:30,380 | 各個地監署所管轄的 |
| 00:05:30,380 | 00:05:31,380 | 所以高監署這樣 |
| 00:05:31,380 | 00:05:32,380 | 部長一個 |
| 00:05:32,380 | 00:05:34,380 | 下令給高監署 |
| 00:05:34,380 | 00:05:35,380 | 高監署叫那些地監署 |
| 00:05:35,380 | 00:05:36,380 | 馬上動起來以後 |
| 00:05:36,380 | 00:05:38,380 | 這個大家都說很糟糕 |
| 00:05:38,380 | 00:05:39,380 | 6月30號 |
| 00:05:39,380 | 00:05:40,380 | 那其實 |
| 00:05:40,380 | 00:05:41,380 | 收到通報 |
| 00:05:41,380 | 00:05:42,380 | 7月1號行政部門 |
| 00:05:42,380 | 00:05:43,380 | 就動起來了 |
| 00:05:43,420 | 00:05:44,420 | 這個硬要去講蓋牌 |
| 00:05:44,420 | 00:05:46,420 | 這個其實是都過度的 |
| 00:05:46,420 | 00:05:47,420 | 政治上的一個攻防 |
| 00:05:47,420 | 00:05:49,420 | 所以正部長雖然在那裡 |
| 00:05:49,420 | 00:05:50,420 | 也要給你們學習 |
| 00:05:50,420 | 00:05:51,420 | 就是說好到最後 |
| 00:05:51,420 | 00:05:52,420 | 法務部這次 |
| 00:05:52,420 | 00:05:53,420 | 確實是非常的一個迅速 |
| 00:05:53,420 | 00:05:55,420 | 但重點我還是覺得 |
| 00:05:55,420 | 00:05:56,420 | 這次修法裡面 |
| 00:05:56,420 | 00:05:59,420 | 我們也不是改個名詞而已 |
| 00:05:59,420 | 00:06:01,420 | 你像比如說你那個41條裡面 |
| 00:06:01,420 | 00:06:03,420 | 我們這個風險的一個查核 |
| 00:06:03,420 | 00:06:04,420 | 對 |
| 00:06:04,420 | 00:06:05,420 | 你現在跟他說 |
| 00:06:05,420 | 00:06:07,420 | 我們現在這個風險導向的 |
| 00:06:07,420 | 00:06:08,420 | 一個查核 |
| 00:06:08,420 | 00:06:10,420 | 本來在食安法41條裡面 |
| 00:06:10,420 | 00:06:12,420 | 你這個預警的查核 |
| 00:06:12,460 | 00:06:14,460 | 你這個預警的查核抽樣 |
| 00:06:14,460 | 00:06:15,460 | 本來地方機關 |
| 00:06:15,460 | 00:06:17,460 | 本來就可以去做一個突襲 |
| 00:06:17,460 | 00:06:18,460 | 是 |
| 00:06:18,460 | 00:06:19,460 | 我們但是修法以後 |
| 00:06:19,460 | 00:06:20,460 | 除非你要去增加 |
| 00:06:20,460 | 00:06:21,460 | 比如說人力 |
| 00:06:21,460 | 00:06:24,460 | 你說查核的頻率次數增加 |
| 00:06:24,460 | 00:06:25,460 | 如果沒有 |
| 00:06:25,460 | 00:06:27,460 | 你這部分 |
| 00:06:27,460 | 00:06:29,460 | 我不知道說你多增加了以後 |
| 00:06:29,460 | 00:06:32,460 | 能產生什麼樣的一個效益 |
| 00:06:32,460 | 00:06:34,460 | 保安委員這個事情是這樣 |
| 00:06:34,460 | 00:06:35,460 | 我們這一次會在第41條 |
| 00:06:35,460 | 00:06:37,460 | 我們會把它 |
| 00:06:37,460 | 00:06:38,460 | 之前是得 |
| 00:06:38,460 | 00:06:40,460 | 那這一次我們就是說 |
| 00:06:40,500 | 00:06:41,500 | 他地方政府 |
| 00:06:41,500 | 00:06:43,500 | 地方主管機關應配合 |
| 00:06:43,500 | 00:06:45,500 | 辦理相關的這些措施 |
| 00:06:45,500 | 00:06:46,500 | 包含 |
| 00:06:46,500 | 00:06:49,500 | 進行到這個食品業者的內部 |
| 00:06:49,500 | 00:06:50,500 | 他的廠商內部 |
| 00:06:50,500 | 00:06:52,500 | 去進行相關的調查跟檢查 |
| 00:06:52,500 | 00:06:55,500 | 那查核之前可以不用事先通知 |
| 00:06:55,500 | 00:06:57,500 | 他就進去等於是一個突襲 |
| 00:06:57,500 | 00:06:58,500 | 那另外的話 |
| 00:06:58,500 | 00:06:59,500 | 我們過去都是讓他自己自主 |
| 00:06:59,500 | 00:07:00,500 | 那地方主管機關 |
| 00:07:00,500 | 00:07:01,500 | 我們這邊 |
| 00:07:01,500 | 00:07:02,500 | 也是尊重地方主管機關 |
| 00:07:02,500 | 00:07:03,500 | 他們去查的時間 |
| 00:07:03,500 | 00:07:04,500 | 不過這一次 |
| 00:07:04,500 | 00:07:06,500 | 我們接下來對於特定 |
| 00:07:06,500 | 00:07:07,500 | 或者像這一類影響 |
| 00:07:07,500 | 00:07:08,500 | 比較重大的一些 |
| 00:07:08,540 | 00:07:10,540 | 食品的這個業者 |
| 00:07:10,540 | 00:07:11,540 | 那我們會訂定他的 |
| 00:07:11,540 | 00:07:12,540 | 檢查的頻率 |
| 00:07:12,540 | 00:07:13,540 | 頻次會加強 |
| 00:07:13,540 | 00:07:15,540 | 然後也會把這個部分 |
| 00:07:15,540 | 00:07:16,540 | 請地方主管機關 |
| 00:07:16,540 | 00:07:18,540 | 做比較強頻次的去做檢驗 |
| 00:07:18,540 | 00:07:19,540 | 還有一個 |
| 00:07:19,540 | 00:07:20,540 | 我本席認為 |
| 00:07:20,540 | 00:07:21,540 | 一個很嚴肅的一個問題 |
| 00:07:21,540 | 00:07:22,540 | 就是說 |
| 00:07:22,540 | 00:07:24,540 | 這一次我們本來是全面性的 |
| 00:07:24,540 | 00:07:26,540 | 預防性的一個下架 |
| 00:07:26,540 | 00:07:27,540 | 是 |
| 00:07:27,540 | 00:07:28,540 | 全面性預防下架 |
| 00:07:28,540 | 00:07:29,540 | 他當然目的就是要 |
| 00:07:29,540 | 00:07:30,540 | 確保國人的一個健康 |
| 00:07:30,540 | 00:07:32,540 | 但是也會碰到一個問題 |
| 00:07:32,540 | 00:07:34,540 | 你下架完以後 |
| 00:07:34,540 | 00:07:37,540 | 這一排的全部都是上游廠商 |
| 00:07:37,580 | 00:07:38,580 | 譬如說他叫做中聯 |
| 00:07:38,580 | 00:07:41,580 | 泰山 福壽 福茂 |
| 00:07:41,580 | 00:07:42,580 | 我們這裡 |
| 00:07:42,580 | 00:07:44,580 | 那裡叫做下游 |
| 00:07:44,580 | 00:07:46,580 | 你全面都預防性下架以後 |
| 00:07:46,580 | 00:07:48,580 | 他們客家在吃青的 |
| 00:07:48,580 | 00:07:49,580 | 他們這裡都是食品 |
| 00:07:49,580 | 00:07:50,580 | 最下游的一個業者 |
| 00:07:50,580 | 00:07:53,580 | 那你如何讓他去做一個上架 |
| 00:07:53,580 | 00:07:56,580 | 現在你說這19批裡面 |
| 00:07:56,580 | 00:07:59,580 | 你認為抽檢完的安全無虞 |
| 00:07:59,580 | 00:08:00,580 | 是 |
| 00:08:00,580 | 00:08:01,580 | 可是有地方政府就認為說 |
| 00:08:01,580 | 00:08:02,580 | 真相還沒有清楚 |
| 00:08:02,580 | 00:08:04,580 | 我不讓他上架 |
| 00:08:04,580 | 00:08:06,580 | 對於這些下游廠商來講的話 |
| 00:08:06,620 | 00:08:09,620 | 你整個經濟的交易的一個秩序 |
| 00:08:09,620 | 00:08:12,620 | 你生產活動你也要讓他繼續 |
| 00:08:12,620 | 00:08:13,620 | 這是第一個問題 |
| 00:08:13,620 | 00:08:14,620 | 那第二個問題就是說 |
| 00:08:14,620 | 00:08:16,620 | 地方如果說我就不要 |
| 00:08:16,620 | 00:08:18,620 | 你要怎麼辦 |
| 00:08:18,620 | 00:08:19,620 | 第三行 |
| 00:08:19,620 | 00:08:21,620 | 有沒有辦法溝通到說 |
| 00:08:21,620 | 00:08:22,620 | 政府來確保 |
| 00:08:22,620 | 00:08:24,620 | 只要上架的這一些 |
| 00:08:24,620 | 00:08:28,620 | 全部都是符合食品健康安全的 |
| 00:08:28,620 | 00:08:29,620 | 請教次長 |
| 00:08:29,620 | 00:08:31,620 | 我們謝謝委員 |
| 00:08:31,620 | 00:08:33,620 | 我們其實就是之前 |
| 00:08:33,620 | 00:08:35,620 | 我們把所有能夠找到的 |
| 00:08:35,659 | 00:08:37,659 | 這19批相關的後續的檢體 |
| 00:08:37,659 | 00:08:38,659 | 但不是中聯的 |
| 00:08:38,659 | 00:08:39,659 | 就是中聯提供的我們不信 |
| 00:08:39,659 | 00:08:41,659 | 我們由其他另外三家 |
| 00:08:41,659 | 00:08:43,659 | 留的原油原樣來做檢驗 |
| 00:08:43,659 | 00:08:45,660 | 那現在就是確保說 |
| 00:08:45,660 | 00:08:48,660 | 這19批我們驗到的這些品項 |
| 00:08:48,660 | 00:08:49,660 | 它其實都符合現在 |
| 00:08:49,660 | 00:08:50,660 | 我們對於食安法裡面 |
| 00:08:50,660 | 00:08:52,660 | 對於油脂的標準 |
| 00:08:52,660 | 00:08:54,660 | 所以這19批驗過 |
| 00:08:54,660 | 00:08:55,660 | 就是符合標準 |
| 00:08:55,660 | 00:08:56,660 | 所以我們說他可以 |
| 00:08:56,660 | 00:08:57,660 | 能夠重新上架 |
| 00:08:57,660 | 00:08:59,660 | 因為之前是預防性下架 |
| 00:08:59,660 | 00:09:00,660 | 那就需要謝謝委員考慮到 |
| 00:09:00,660 | 00:09:01,660 | 因為這裡面其實 |
| 00:09:01,660 | 00:09:02,660 | 大的這幾家油廠 |
| 00:09:02,660 | 00:09:03,660 | 當然我們跟 |
| 00:09:03,660 | 00:09:04,660 | 我們謝謝法務部協助我們 |
| 00:09:04,699 | 00:09:05,699 | 我們要做比較 |
| 00:09:05,699 | 00:09:07,699 | 強的這個客責 |
| 00:09:07,699 | 00:09:09,699 | 但是A卡加小型食品廠 |
| 00:09:09,699 | 00:09:10,699 | 事實上是很辛苦 |
| 00:09:10,699 | 00:09:11,699 | 因為他們根本沒有辦法 |
| 00:09:11,699 | 00:09:12,699 | 知道上面那邊 |
| 00:09:12,699 | 00:09:13,699 | 發生這樣的事情 |
| 00:09:13,699 | 00:09:14,699 | 所以後來預防性下架之後 |
| 00:09:14,699 | 00:09:15,699 | 我們儘速的 |
| 00:09:15,699 | 00:09:16,699 | 我們食藥署這邊 |
| 00:09:16,699 | 00:09:18,699 | 儘速把這邊檢驗驗完 |
| 00:09:18,699 | 00:09:19,699 | 那這19批 |
| 00:09:19,699 | 00:09:20,699 | 我們希望我們今天會再 |
| 00:09:20,699 | 00:09:21,699 | 跟地方衛生局 |
| 00:09:21,699 | 00:09:22,699 | 再做一些溝通 |
| 00:09:22,699 | 00:09:23,699 | 就是說把相關的數據 |
| 00:09:23,699 | 00:09:24,699 | 跟說明 |
| 00:09:24,699 | 00:09:26,699 | 那我們自己委託的調查小組 |
| 00:09:26,699 | 00:09:27,699 | 也會儘速的把調查報告 |
| 00:09:27,699 | 00:09:28,699 | 能夠來公開 |
| 00:09:28,699 | 00:09:30,699 | 那讓大家能夠更有信心 |
| 00:09:30,699 | 00:09:31,699 | 同時也保障 |
| 00:09:31,699 | 00:09:32,699 | 這些合法的業者 |
| 00:09:32,699 | 00:09:33,699 | 他們的權益 |
| 00:09:33,740 | 00:09:34,740 | 我認為啊 |
| 00:09:34,740 | 00:09:35,740 | 市長我認為這一次 |
| 00:09:35,740 | 00:09:37,740 | 其實真正的一個問題 |
| 00:09:37,740 | 00:09:39,740 | 出在於說叫做信任 |
| 00:09:39,740 | 00:09:41,740 | 民眾對政府信任 |
| 00:09:41,740 | 00:09:44,740 | 是不是有所減損 |
| 00:09:44,740 | 00:09:45,740 | 你像譬如說不要小看 |
| 00:09:45,740 | 00:09:46,740 | 你說這19批 |
| 00:09:46,740 | 00:09:48,740 | 19批我們講的是中聯 |
| 00:09:48,740 | 00:09:51,740 | 可是你19批你到福茂 |
| 00:09:51,740 | 00:09:52,740 | 到福壽泰山分出去 |
| 00:09:52,740 | 00:09:54,740 | 你搞不好又變成5、600批 |
| 00:09:54,740 | 00:09:56,740 | 那你這三家5、600批 |
| 00:09:56,740 | 00:09:58,740 | 到這些下游廠商以後 |
| 00:09:58,740 | 00:10:00,740 | 搞不好變幾千批 |
| 00:10:00,740 | 00:10:02,740 | 那對我第一線的地方 |
| 00:10:02,780 | 00:10:04,780 | 假設我是高雄市政府的話 |
| 00:10:04,780 | 00:10:05,780 | 我才有那麼多人力 |
| 00:10:05,780 | 00:10:06,780 | 人家給你買車 |
| 00:10:06,780 | 00:10:07,780 | 有這個問題 |
| 00:10:07,780 | 00:10:09,780 | 所以我看地方政府 |
| 00:10:09,780 | 00:10:11,780 | 他現在有所抗拒 |
| 00:10:11,780 | 00:10:12,780 | 他只是找出那個理由 |
| 00:10:12,780 | 00:10:13,780 | 你看起來覺得 |
| 00:10:13,780 | 00:10:14,780 | 不用擔心啊 |
| 00:10:14,780 | 00:10:15,780 | 我的政府 |
| 00:10:15,780 | 00:10:17,780 | 中央政府好像把你關保險 |
| 00:10:17,780 | 00:10:19,780 | 但我覺得最重要的是說 |
| 00:10:19,780 | 00:10:21,780 | 會搞得他們人羊馬翻的問題 |
| 00:10:21,780 | 00:10:22,780 | 所以應該啊 |
| 00:10:22,780 | 00:10:24,780 | 我們除了確保 |
| 00:10:24,780 | 00:10:26,780 | 民眾食的安全 |
| 00:10:26,780 | 00:10:29,780 | 就為食品安全來做一個把關以外 |
| 00:10:29,780 | 00:10:31,780 | 最重要的是人羊馬翻 |
| 00:10:31,819 | 00:10:32,819 | 最重要的是 |
| 00:10:32,819 | 00:10:34,819 | 如何去確保 |
| 00:10:34,819 | 00:10:35,819 | 上架的東西 |
| 00:10:35,819 | 00:10:37,819 | 你既然沒有人給他上架嘛 |
| 00:10:37,819 | 00:10:39,819 | 這方面你就要回去看嘛 |
| 00:10:39,819 | 00:10:40,819 | 你上架你就要跟他說 |
| 00:10:40,819 | 00:10:43,819 | 你民眾去從架上所買的東西 |
| 00:10:43,819 | 00:10:45,819 | 全部都符合標準的喔 |
| 00:10:45,819 | 00:10:47,819 | 第三就是說 |
| 00:10:47,819 | 00:10:48,819 | 那些下游業者 |
| 00:10:48,819 | 00:10:50,819 | 他們扣這些現存的 |
| 00:10:50,819 | 00:10:51,819 | 怎麼辦 |
| 00:10:51,819 | 00:10:52,819 | 政府很困難 |
| 00:10:52,819 | 00:10:55,819 | 政府你必須要保障食的安全 |
| 00:10:55,819 | 00:10:58,819 | 你政府又要去維護整個經濟的一個 |
| 00:10:58,819 | 00:11:00,819 | 正常的活動的一個秩序 |
| 00:11:00,860 | 00:11:01,860 | 考驗你們啊 |
| 00:11:01,860 | 00:11:03,860 | 這個都是在建立整個 |
| 00:11:03,860 | 00:11:04,860 | 人民對政府的一個 |
| 00:11:04,860 | 00:11:06,860 | 這一次食安危機裡面的一個信任感 |
| 00:11:06,860 | 00:11:07,860 | 加油一下 |
| 00:11:07,860 | 00:11:08,860 | 好嗎 |
| 00:11:08,860 | 00:11:09,860 | 中央跟地方 |
| 00:11:09,860 | 00:11:11,860 | 其實就是科學的一個依據啦 |
| 00:11:11,860 | 00:11:13,860 | 你們專業對專業去做一個溝通啦 |
| 00:11:13,860 | 00:11:15,860 | 那地方政府他受到的這一些啊 |
| 00:11:15,860 | 00:11:17,860 | 他們人力上的不足啊 |
| 00:11:17,860 | 00:11:19,860 | 或者他的一個擔憂啊 |
| 00:11:19,860 | 00:11:20,860 | 一個人一個人 |
| 00:11:20,860 | 00:11:21,860 | 說清楚啦 |
| 00:11:21,860 | 00:11:22,860 | 說清楚 |
| 00:11:22,860 | 00:11:23,860 | 專業對專業 |
| 00:11:23,860 | 00:11:24,860 | 有考考的一個建築過後 |
| 00:11:24,860 | 00:11:26,860 | 那個信心就會建立起來 |
| 00:11:26,860 | 00:11:29,860 | 我們也剛才交給這張報告 |
| 00:11:29,900 | 00:11:30,900 | 這有意義啦 |
| 00:11:30,900 | 00:11:31,900 | 好不好 |
| 00:11:31,900 | 00:11:32,900 | 謝謝委員 |
| 00:11:32,900 | 00:11:33,900 | 其實在設施食安法裡面 |
| 00:11:33,900 | 00:11:35,900 | 後來後面會在第二條那邊 |
| 00:11:35,900 | 00:11:36,900 | 第二條加上就是 |
| 00:11:36,900 | 00:11:38,900 | 像這一類重大事件 |
| 00:11:38,900 | 00:11:40,900 | 中央這邊變成是一個中央 |
| 00:11:40,900 | 00:11:41,900 | 有一個指揮中心的概念 |
| 00:11:41,900 | 00:11:42,900 | 我們跟地方政府 |
| 00:11:42,900 | 00:11:44,900 | 我們這樣有一個平行平台 |
| 00:11:44,900 | 00:11:46,900 | 一起把資訊做一個更好的直接溝通 |
| 00:11:46,900 | 00:11:48,900 | 對地方政府協助會比較大 |
| 00:11:48,900 | 00:11:49,900 | 你這如果創下好事之後 |
| 00:11:49,900 | 00:11:50,900 | 設個議會 |
| 00:11:50,900 | 00:11:52,900 | 那場遊行也會被你閉了 |
| 00:11:52,900 | 00:11:53,900 | 你創不好事之後 |
| 00:11:53,900 | 00:11:54,900 | 那人很多去你那裡發發 |
| 00:11:54,900 | 00:11:55,900 | 大家也沒民主 |
| 00:11:55,900 | 00:11:56,900 | 好不好 |
| 00:11:56,900 | 00:11:57,900 | 好 |
| 00:11:57,900 | 00:11:58,900 | 謝謝 |
| 00:11:58,900 | 00:11:59,939 | 謝謝 |