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張雅琳 @ 第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第26次全體委員會議
| Start Time | End Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00:00,000 | 00:00:02,000 | 請國營委員巡檔 |
| 00:00:14,680 | 00:00:16,980 | 好 謝謝主席 我們先請國發基金 |
| 00:00:17,600 | 00:00:19,040 | 國發會的 |
| 00:00:20,260 | 00:00:20,960 | 執秘的 |
| 00:00:20,960 | 00:00:22,400 | 對 國發會的 |
| 00:00:23,140 | 00:00:27,040 | 汪直淑 |
| 00:00:27,240 | 00:00:27,759 | 好 |
| 00:00:28,279 | 00:00:30,180 | 執秘你好 我想請教一下 |
| 00:00:30,180 | 00:00:31,919 | 因為我剛剛聽到這個 |
| 00:00:32,180 | 00:00:33,960 | 陳昭之委員有來問有關於 |
| 00:00:33,960 | 00:00:36,440 | 礦石智能獲得國發基金投資的這個事情 |
| 00:00:36,440 | 00:00:39,680 | 我想我們還是必須把事實來講清楚說明白 |
| 00:00:39,680 | 00:00:43,560 | 不能讓它變成是一個政治攻擊或是造謠的場域 |
| 00:00:43,560 | 00:00:45,280 | 所以我想問一下就是說 |
| 00:00:45,280 | 00:00:48,160 | 針對這一筆兩千萬的資金 |
| 00:00:48,160 | 00:00:50,320 | 據我所理解的 |
| 00:00:50,320 | 00:00:53,040 | 是國發基金取得公司股權的投資 |
| 00:00:53,040 | 00:00:55,160 | 它不是補助案 對嗎 |
| 00:00:55,160 | 00:00:55,920 | 對 |
| 00:00:55,920 | 00:00:56,640 | 好 |
| 00:00:56,640 | 00:01:01,480 | 那這個公司是依公開的創業天使的投資方案來申請 |
| 00:01:01,480 | 00:01:02,200 | 它 |
| 00:01:02,200 | 00:01:06,680 | 應該是有經過外部專家依既定的程序來審議 對嗎 |
| 00:01:06,680 | 00:01:09,200 | 然後有民間的投資人共同來投資的 對吧 |
| 00:01:09,200 | 00:01:09,700 | 是的 |
| 00:01:09,700 | 00:01:10,320 | 是的 |
| 00:01:10,320 | 00:01:15,560 | 所以外界所稱的兩次的投資其實是同一次的現金增資 |
| 00:01:15,560 | 00:01:18,960 | 國發基金其實根本後續沒有再投入 對嗎 |
| 00:01:18,960 | 00:01:19,680 | 對 |
| 00:01:19,680 | 00:01:20,320 | 好 |
| 00:01:20,320 | 00:01:24,520 | 那再來就是說根據公職人員利益衝突迴避法 |
| 00:01:24,520 | 00:01:25,640 | 其實我們 |
| 00:01:25,640 | 00:01:29,200 | 真正要檢驗的應該是公職人員有沒有介入 |
| 00:01:29,200 | 00:01:32,600 | 有沒有關說 有沒有影響 有沒有影響審查 |
| 00:01:32,600 | 00:01:35,480 | 那我這個部分是不是可以再澄清一下 |
| 00:01:35,480 | 00:01:37,600 | 你們是不是有符合相關的規定呢 |
| 00:01:37,600 | 00:01:39,000 | 跟委員報告 |
| 00:01:39,000 | 00:01:40,840 | 國發基金在做投資的時候 |
| 00:01:40,840 | 00:01:47,480 | 都是有遵照這個公職人員利益衝突迴避法的規定來辦理 |
| 00:01:47,480 | 00:01:48,880 | 好 了解 好 謝謝 |
| 00:01:48,880 | 00:01:50,240 | 那我想其實 |
| 00:01:50,240 | 00:01:52,040 | 國發會也好 經濟部也好 |
| 00:01:52,040 | 00:01:54,200 | 其實都說了非常非常多次 |
| 00:01:54,200 | 00:01:55,480 | 我會認為說 |
| 00:01:55,520 | 00:01:57,440 | 既然已經說了非常非常清楚的事情 |
| 00:01:57,440 | 00:02:00,920 | 不要一拿這個想要抹黑的事情一再的去造謠 |
| 00:02:00,920 | 00:02:04,040 | 只是為了自己的政治來圖利自己 |
| 00:02:04,040 | 00:02:06,520 | 所以我會認為這個民眾黨拜託 |
| 00:02:06,520 | 00:02:08,920 | 請你們停止這樣子的造謠跟抹黑 |
| 00:02:08,920 | 00:02:11,640 | 讓公務員們讓我們的制度上面可以好好做事 |
| 00:02:11,640 | 00:02:12,360 | 謝謝 |
| 00:02:12,360 | 00:02:14,920 | 那接下來我要請這個法務部 |
| 00:02:16,560 | 00:02:17,840 | 好 請政部長 |
| 00:02:20,400 | 00:02:21,800 | 好 部長我想請教一下 |
| 00:02:21,800 | 00:02:23,720 | 就是說我們來檢 |
| 00:02:23,760 | 00:02:27,280 | 這次這個食藥署清查的30批油品呢 |
| 00:02:27,880 | 00:02:29,080 | 這個陸陸續續啦 |
| 00:02:29,080 | 00:02:32,400 | 總共是一開始是不合格的是5批 |
| 00:02:32,400 | 00:02:35,680 | 然後後來又發現兩個油品的批號不合格 |
| 00:02:35,680 | 00:02:38,400 | 所以總共是有7批問題油品 |
| 00:02:38,400 | 00:02:41,960 | 然後後來我們又持續的去抽驗檢查 |
| 00:02:41,960 | 00:02:43,079 | 那目前呢 |
| 00:02:43,079 | 00:02:46,960 | 已經有下架2769公噸 |
| 00:02:46,960 | 00:02:49,880 | 然後還有5000多公噸的油品採預防性下架 |
| 00:02:49,880 | 00:02:51,560 | 那也已經進入了刑事審查 |
| 00:02:51,600 | 00:02:54,480 | 7月9號的時候我們進去搜索中聯油品 |
| 00:02:54,480 | 00:02:55,480 | 然後呢 |
| 00:02:56,720 | 00:02:59,720 | 同時呢我們也跟這個法院申請扣押 |
| 00:02:59,720 | 00:03:02,800 | 中聯福壽福茂跟泰山世間公司 |
| 00:03:02,800 | 00:03:05,360 | 名下的土地房屋等不動產對不對 |
| 00:03:05,360 | 00:03:05,720 | 是 |
| 00:03:05,720 | 00:03:06,840 | 那我想請教一下 |
| 00:03:06,840 | 00:03:08,440 | 因為在6月29號 |
| 00:03:08,440 | 00:03:12,760 | 中聯公司受到了第三方的這個檢驗結果 |
| 00:03:12,760 | 00:03:16,400 | 通報6月30號通報了台中市政府 |
| 00:03:16,400 | 00:03:19,040 | 那可是我看到你們法務部的報告 |
| 00:03:19,040 | 00:03:21,200 | 7月22號的報告只有寫說 |
| 00:03:21,200 | 00:03:23,799 | 7月2號召開平台會議 |
| 00:03:23,799 | 00:03:26,519 | 7月9號才執行搜索 |
| 00:03:26,519 | 00:03:28,799 | 我想問一下司法證據保全 |
| 00:03:28,799 | 00:03:30,560 | 有沒有所謂的黃金時間 |
| 00:03:30,560 | 00:03:33,560 | 因為如果我們拖的時間比較久的時候 |
| 00:03:33,560 | 00:03:38,000 | 那是不是就有可能讓他可以去整理三改內部的一些資料呢 |
| 00:03:38,000 | 00:03:40,040 | 那我們目前到底有沒有一個明確 |
| 00:03:40,040 | 00:03:41,480 | 在重大食安事件 |
| 00:03:41,480 | 00:03:46,600 | 我們多久的時間應該要即刻的來去進行搜索 |
| 00:03:46,600 | 00:03:48,079 | 跟委員報告 |
| 00:03:48,079 | 00:03:49,679 | 那個搜索的話 |
| 00:03:50,240 | 00:03:52,520 | 的確是要做證據的一個 |
| 00:03:52,520 | 00:03:53,160 | 保全 |
| 00:03:53,160 | 00:03:54,160 | 收集跟保全 |
| 00:03:54,160 | 00:03:54,880 | 對 |
| 00:03:54,880 | 00:03:56,880 | 那當然這個食安法沒有就 |
| 00:03:56,880 | 00:03:58,320 | 因為行政是做行政管理 |
| 00:03:58,320 | 00:04:01,920 | 他如果違反一些像通報等等的 |
| 00:04:01,920 | 00:04:05,520 | 或者也會製造這些的一些的刑責以外 |
| 00:04:05,520 | 00:04:06,600 | 他是一個犯罪行為 |
| 00:04:06,600 | 00:04:10,640 | 他不會就沒有就怎麼要證據保全做一個明確的規定 |
| 00:04:10,640 | 00:04:12,800 | 其實包括刑事訴訟也是一樣 |
| 00:04:12,800 | 00:04:15,520 | 因為這是每個案件的案情不同 |
| 00:04:15,520 | 00:04:17,120 | 那所以我沒有搜索的必要 |
| 00:04:17,120 | 00:04:19,120 | 就會跟法院申請搜索 |
| 00:04:19,160 | 00:04:20,440 | 那我想這部分 |
| 00:04:20,440 | 00:04:22,440 | 當我們要去搜索要跟法院申請搜索 |
| 00:04:22,440 | 00:04:25,040 | 但是我剛剛聽到你在前面的委員的質詢的時候 |
| 00:04:25,040 | 00:04:26,640 | 其實大家也都非常關切 |
| 00:04:26,640 | 00:04:29,120 | 因為可能到時候要做相關的民事求償 |
| 00:04:29,120 | 00:04:30,920 | 這個到時候可能就會求償無門 |
| 00:04:30,920 | 00:04:33,400 | 所以才會希望大家可以積極的去做 |
| 00:04:33,400 | 00:04:34,640 | 所以我想問一下就是說 |
| 00:04:34,640 | 00:04:35,720 | 所以現在目前就是說 |
| 00:04:35,720 | 00:04:37,720 | 我們並沒有一個明確的判斷標準 |
| 00:04:37,720 | 00:04:38,720 | 是在幾個小時之內 |
| 00:04:38,720 | 00:04:40,400 | 這個按照那個 |
| 00:04:40,400 | 00:04:42,760 | 我想那個我們證據一定要進搜索 |
| 00:04:42,760 | 00:04:44,960 | 一定要想擁有的一個證據資料 |
| 00:04:44,960 | 00:04:46,560 | 去證明搜索的必要 |
| 00:04:46,560 | 00:04:47,200 | 沒錯我同意 |
| 00:04:47,200 | 00:04:48,000 | 那我們要扣什麼東西 |
| 00:04:48,040 | 00:04:50,040 | 所以法院才有可能會核准嘛 |
| 00:04:50,040 | 00:04:52,040 | 才會準票因為是另撞的嘛 |
| 00:04:52,040 | 00:04:54,040 | 那這部分我想這件 |
| 00:04:54,040 | 00:04:56,040 | 7月2號我們有啟動平台 |
| 00:04:56,040 | 00:04:57,040 | 7月3號立案 |
| 00:04:57,040 | 00:04:59,040 | 我們7月9號就去搜第一次了 |
| 00:04:59,040 | 00:05:01,040 | 其實7月6號我們有去 |
| 00:05:01,040 | 00:05:03,040 | 有專案小組的有去那個 |
| 00:05:03,040 | 00:05:05,040 | 廠裡面到廠裡面去 |
| 00:05:05,040 | 00:05:07,040 | 調取相關資料 |
| 00:05:07,040 | 00:05:09,040 | 7月6號已經去調取相關資料 |
| 00:05:09,040 | 00:05:11,040 | 但是我想這個 |
| 00:05:11,040 | 00:05:13,040 | 調查相關資料我想要不要做一個 |
| 00:05:13,040 | 00:05:15,040 | 一個做怎麼樣的一個運用 |
| 00:05:15,040 | 00:05:17,040 | 我想檢察官會依照他們的 |
| 00:05:17,080 | 00:05:19,080 | 偵查策略來做一個一個來規劃 |
| 00:05:19,080 | 00:05:22,080 | 所以我們昨天也再搜索第二次了 |
| 00:05:22,080 | 00:05:24,080 | 好了解那我想提醒一下 |
| 00:05:24,080 | 00:05:26,080 | 就是說我們的食安法 |
| 00:05:26,080 | 00:05:28,080 | 49條同時是規範了故意跟過失 |
| 00:05:28,080 | 00:05:31,080 | 那這兩個的刑責差距其實是非常的大 |
| 00:05:31,080 | 00:05:33,080 | 那現在我們必須要去釐清的 |
| 00:05:33,080 | 00:05:35,080 | 不是只有油品有沒有超標而是 |
| 00:05:35,080 | 00:05:37,080 | 是要去查業者 |
| 00:05:37,080 | 00:05:39,080 | 知道了之後他到底怎麼做 |
| 00:05:39,080 | 00:05:41,080 | 因為如果他是尚未確認原因 |
| 00:05:41,080 | 00:05:43,080 | 所以他還是在合理的期間去 |
| 00:05:43,080 | 00:05:45,080 | 復業那他可能涉及的是過失嘛 |
| 00:05:45,120 | 00:05:47,120 | 對不對可是如果他是已經知道 |
| 00:05:47,120 | 00:05:50,120 | 油品有問題可是他還出貨 |
| 00:05:50,120 | 00:05:53,120 | 去販售那就應該不是過失了 |
| 00:05:53,120 | 00:05:56,120 | 所以他應該是涉及故意犯罪 |
| 00:05:56,120 | 00:05:58,120 | 所以我想請問一下部長就是說 |
| 00:05:58,120 | 00:06:01,120 | 我們是不是會就這個方面來去做調查 |
| 00:06:01,120 | 00:06:04,120 | 這個我想檢察官會針對這個 |
| 00:06:04,120 | 00:06:06,120 | 因為的確委員關係這問題也是檢察官 |
| 00:06:06,120 | 00:06:09,120 | 要努力去去積極去蒐證的 |
| 00:06:09,120 | 00:06:11,120 | 因為的確食安法是規定 |
| 00:06:11,120 | 00:06:14,120 | 有有有違反的之語 |
| 00:06:14,160 | 00:06:17,160 | 應該是第七條第五項 |
| 00:06:17,160 | 00:06:19,160 | 我忘了那個確定的條文 |
| 00:06:19,160 | 00:06:21,160 | 他裡面有之語 |
| 00:06:21,160 | 00:06:24,160 | 他就業者就要通報的意務了 |
| 00:06:24,160 | 00:06:26,160 | 通報的意務那這部分 |
| 00:06:26,160 | 00:06:29,160 | 當然如果說有這樣的一個 |
| 00:06:29,160 | 00:06:32,160 | 違反通報的意務那還在出貨 |
| 00:06:32,160 | 00:06:34,160 | 那可能會是不是故意犯 |
| 00:06:34,160 | 00:06:38,160 | 我想檢察官會去積極的去蒐集事件 |
| 00:06:38,160 | 00:06:40,160 | 來做一個試試認定 |
| 00:06:40,160 | 00:06:42,160 | 那還有第三個也是一個提醒就是說 |
| 00:06:42,200 | 00:06:44,200 | 他們因為後來又查到有漏報 |
| 00:06:44,200 | 00:06:45,200 | 因為原本是29P |
| 00:06:45,200 | 00:06:48,200 | 後來又發現其實是30P |
| 00:06:48,200 | 00:06:50,200 | 所以呢因為我看你們的報告 |
| 00:06:50,200 | 00:06:52,200 | 只有提到是否有延遲通報 |
| 00:06:52,200 | 00:06:54,200 | 但其實已經不是延遲通報 |
| 00:06:54,200 | 00:06:57,200 | 他還有漏報少報假報的問題 |
| 00:06:57,200 | 00:06:59,200 | 所以這個是不是可以去調查 |
| 00:06:59,200 | 00:07:01,200 | 如果明知業者是資料不實 |
| 00:07:01,200 | 00:07:02,200 | 可是還是提供給主管機關 |
| 00:07:02,200 | 00:07:04,200 | 或者是下游的業者 |
| 00:07:04,200 | 00:07:07,200 | 是否涉及刑法的登載不實之罪 |
| 00:07:07,200 | 00:07:10,200 | 行使不實文書甚至是詐欺等等 |
| 00:07:10,240 | 00:07:13,240 | 是否都已經納入我們檢察官調查的範圍呢 |
| 00:07:13,240 | 00:07:15,240 | 這個一定是會納入 |
| 00:07:15,240 | 00:07:16,240 | 我想檢察官在偵查犯罪 |
| 00:07:16,240 | 00:07:18,240 | 他會釐清各項的犯罪行為 |
| 00:07:18,240 | 00:07:20,240 | 就像我們關心的 |
| 00:07:20,240 | 00:07:22,240 | 這是故意蓋牌嘛 |
| 00:07:22,240 | 00:07:23,240 | 我覺得明知有 |
| 00:07:23,240 | 00:07:26,240 | 有這個疑慮或者是已經確定有了 |
| 00:07:26,240 | 00:07:27,240 | 我還在蓋牌不講 |
| 00:07:27,240 | 00:07:29,240 | 然後再出貨 |
| 00:07:29,240 | 00:07:32,240 | 那這樣我想這部分檢察官會全力來偵辦 |
| 00:07:32,240 | 00:07:34,240 | 如果有的話我們依照 |
| 00:07:34,240 | 00:07:37,240 | 依這個犯罪事實來起訴求刑 |
| 00:07:37,240 | 00:07:39,240 | 好謝謝那就是 |
| 00:07:39,280 | 00:07:40,280 | 接下來我請次長 |
| 00:07:42,280 | 00:07:44,280 | 好請您次長 |
| 00:07:46,280 | 00:07:47,280 | 委員長 |
| 00:07:47,280 | 00:07:48,280 | 好次長長 |
| 00:07:48,280 | 00:07:49,280 | 因為我想這個是 |
| 00:07:49,280 | 00:07:52,280 | 這個草案今天可能會通過行政院院會 |
| 00:07:52,280 | 00:07:53,280 | 那這就會是我們十年來 |
| 00:07:53,280 | 00:07:55,280 | 第一再一次的去針對食安 |
| 00:07:55,280 | 00:07:57,280 | 進行一個新的規範 |
| 00:07:57,280 | 00:07:59,280 | 那這一次會增加源頭管理的次數 |
| 00:07:59,280 | 00:08:01,280 | 以及一定的規模的業者 |
| 00:08:01,280 | 00:08:03,280 | 要自己設置這個實驗室 |
| 00:08:03,280 | 00:08:04,280 | 那這個勢必要跟業者 |
| 00:08:04,280 | 00:08:07,280 | 學校還有市場跟民眾來做好好的溝通 |
| 00:08:07,320 | 00:08:09,320 | 那我自己今天也會開座談會 |
| 00:08:09,320 | 00:08:11,320 | 來邀請我們的家長 |
| 00:08:11,320 | 00:08:12,320 | 還有相關的團體 |
| 00:08:12,320 | 00:08:14,320 | 還有這個醫師 |
| 00:08:14,320 | 00:08:16,320 | 食安專家來針對這個部分來做討論 |
| 00:08:16,320 | 00:08:18,320 | 那我現在想要針對幾個問題 |
| 00:08:18,320 | 00:08:19,320 | 來跟次長做討論 |
| 00:08:19,320 | 00:08:22,320 | 就是我們以預犯團的食安把關 |
| 00:08:22,320 | 00:08:24,320 | 我們以現在據我所知 |
| 00:08:24,320 | 00:08:27,320 | 我們現在從原料到門市上架 |
| 00:08:27,320 | 00:08:28,320 | 大概是五成 |
| 00:08:28,320 | 00:08:31,320 | 流程上就是從原料進貨 |
| 00:08:31,320 | 00:08:32,319 | 還有HACCP |
| 00:08:32,319 | 00:08:33,319 | 成品放行 |
| 00:08:33,319 | 00:08:36,319 | 以及收到最後的物流跟門市的時候 |
| 00:08:36,360 | 00:08:38,360 | 目前基本上就是有五成 |
| 00:08:38,360 | 00:08:40,360 | 那如果加上政府的抽驗 |
| 00:08:40,360 | 00:08:41,360 | 現在是六成 |
| 00:08:41,360 | 00:08:42,360 | 對嗎 |
| 00:08:42,360 | 00:08:44,360 | 如果是以委員這邊提到 |
| 00:08:44,360 | 00:08:46,360 | 我們有這些不同層次的把關 |
| 00:08:46,360 | 00:08:49,360 | 當然不同的食品或者是原料 |
| 00:08:49,360 | 00:08:50,360 | 它還有一些不同的標準 |
| 00:08:50,360 | 00:08:51,360 | 沒錯 同意 |
| 00:08:51,360 | 00:08:52,360 | 那我現在就是以預犯團 |
| 00:08:52,360 | 00:08:54,360 | 我想要比較的就是說修法前 |
| 00:08:54,360 | 00:08:56,360 | 跟修法後 |
| 00:08:56,360 | 00:08:58,360 | 它到底會有什麼樣子的改變 |
| 00:08:58,360 | 00:08:59,360 | 那再來現在 |
| 00:08:59,360 | 00:09:01,360 | 如果是根據這個草案的話 |
| 00:09:01,360 | 00:09:02,360 | 就是針對於有品的部分 |
| 00:09:02,360 | 00:09:04,360 | 每一批都要自主送驗 |
| 00:09:04,400 | 00:09:06,400 | 那第一層下游的廠商 |
| 00:09:06,400 | 00:09:08,400 | 也要從現在的半年一次 |
| 00:09:08,400 | 00:09:10,400 | 提高成美劑檢驗 |
| 00:09:10,400 | 00:09:11,400 | 所以就會增加 |
| 00:09:11,400 | 00:09:13,400 | 大概六到七成的關卡 |
| 00:09:13,400 | 00:09:14,400 | 是嗎 |
| 00:09:14,400 | 00:09:15,400 | 我們現在是這樣 |
| 00:09:15,400 | 00:09:16,400 | 就是說前面這邊 |
| 00:09:16,400 | 00:09:18,400 | 本來在原來的食安法裡面 |
| 00:09:18,400 | 00:09:19,400 | 像這些上游的食品業者 |
| 00:09:19,400 | 00:09:20,400 | 油脂廠 |
| 00:09:20,400 | 00:09:21,400 | 其實他們也是一樣 |
| 00:09:21,400 | 00:09:22,360 | 他們之前就是像 |
| 00:09:22,360 | 00:09:23,360 | 委員這邊提到 |
| 00:09:23,360 | 00:09:25,400 | 半年他自己要自主檢驗一次 |
| 00:09:25,400 | 00:09:26,400 | 那我們現在在新的修法裡面 |
| 00:09:26,400 | 00:09:28,400 | 還會再增加就是說 |
| 00:09:28,400 | 00:09:30,400 | 符合一定類別及規模者 |
| 00:09:30,400 | 00:09:31,400 | 對 |
| 00:09:31,400 | 00:09:32,400 | 譬如說像這一次油脂 |
| 00:09:32,400 | 00:09:33,400 | 因為它的 |
| 00:09:33,439 | 00:09:34,439 | 大概就只有幾家公司在做 |
| 00:09:34,439 | 00:09:35,439 | 然後這幾家 |
| 00:09:35,439 | 00:09:36,439 | 它的市占都非常的多 |
| 00:09:36,439 | 00:09:38,439 | 這種大型的油脂廠 |
| 00:09:38,439 | 00:09:39,439 | 那第一個部分 |
| 00:09:39,439 | 00:09:40,439 | 我們會要求他們自己 |
| 00:09:40,439 | 00:09:41,439 | 在一定規模之上 |
| 00:09:41,439 | 00:09:43,439 | 他要去建立他自己的實驗室 |
| 00:09:43,439 | 00:09:44,439 | 第二個部分 |
| 00:09:44,439 | 00:09:46,439 | 這個實驗室要經過認證 |
| 00:09:46,439 | 00:09:47,439 | 第三個就是說 |
| 00:09:47,439 | 00:09:48,439 | 像這一次遇到 |
| 00:09:48,439 | 00:09:49,439 | 就是他們有一些送驗之後 |
| 00:09:49,439 | 00:09:51,439 | 沒有及時通報 |
| 00:09:51,439 | 00:09:52,439 | 所以我們在新的修法裡面 |
| 00:09:52,439 | 00:09:53,439 | 他的這個實驗室 |
| 00:09:53,439 | 00:09:55,439 | 不斷是這個廠商 |
| 00:09:55,439 | 00:09:56,439 | 他被我們要求 |
| 00:09:56,439 | 00:09:57,439 | 要自己做檢驗 |
| 00:09:57,439 | 00:09:59,439 | 同時當廠商發現 |
| 00:09:59,439 | 00:10:00,439 | 他的報告有問題 |
| 00:10:00,439 | 00:10:02,439 | 或者是他委託的 |
| 00:10:02,480 | 00:10:03,480 | 不論他自己的實驗室 |
| 00:10:03,480 | 00:10:05,480 | 或他委託第三方的這個 |
| 00:10:05,480 | 00:10:06,480 | 驗證機構 |
| 00:10:06,480 | 00:10:07,480 | 他發現有問題他都要通報 |
| 00:10:07,480 | 00:10:09,480 | 那另外一個部分就是 |
| 00:10:09,480 | 00:10:10,480 | 我們過去在食安法裡面 |
| 00:10:10,480 | 00:10:11,480 | 有提到地方的主管機構 |
| 00:10:11,480 | 00:10:12,440 | 他有應 |
| 00:10:12,440 | 00:10:13,440 | 應該就得啦 |
| 00:10:13,440 | 00:10:14,440 | 他可以去做 |
| 00:10:14,440 | 00:10:15,480 | 那我們現在會加強就是說 |
| 00:10:15,480 | 00:10:17,480 | 某一些像這一類的 |
| 00:10:17,480 | 00:10:18,480 | 他一旦有問題影響 |
| 00:10:18,480 | 00:10:20,480 | 會全國性的這樣子的廠商 |
| 00:10:20,480 | 00:10:21,480 | 我們會要求要應 |
| 00:10:21,480 | 00:10:23,480 | 他要增加他的相關的檢驗品次 |
| 00:10:23,480 | 00:10:25,480 | 訂上去他必須要去做檢驗 |
| 00:10:25,480 | 00:10:26,480 | 好謝謝 |
| 00:10:26,480 | 00:10:27,480 | 謝謝次長的回答 |
| 00:10:27,480 | 00:10:28,480 | 因為我想就是我們 |
| 00:10:28,480 | 00:10:30,480 | 就算我們增加檢驗的次數 |
| 00:10:30,520 | 00:10:32,520 | 如果我們沒有去強化 |
| 00:10:32,520 | 00:10:33,520 | 這些通報的機制 |
| 00:10:33,520 | 00:10:35,520 | 其實這個東西 |
| 00:10:35,520 | 00:10:36,520 | 就算你檢驗了 |
| 00:10:36,520 | 00:10:37,520 | 他沒有送出來 |
| 00:10:37,520 | 00:10:38,520 | 我們還是不會知道 |
| 00:10:38,520 | 00:10:40,520 | 而且地方政府的 |
| 00:10:40,520 | 00:10:42,520 | 平時的查核頻率 |
| 00:10:42,520 | 00:10:43,520 | 抽驗項目 |
| 00:10:43,520 | 00:10:45,520 | 如果沒有及早的去做 |
| 00:10:45,520 | 00:10:46,520 | 規律的去做 |
| 00:10:46,520 | 00:10:48,520 | 其實我們還是沒有去 |
| 00:10:48,520 | 00:10:50,520 | 沒有辦法去解決這個問題 |
| 00:10:50,520 | 00:10:51,520 | 所以剛剛我聽到 |
| 00:10:51,520 | 00:10:52,520 | 次長的回覆就是說 |
| 00:10:52,520 | 00:10:54,520 | 在這一次的修法裡面 |
| 00:10:54,520 | 00:10:55,520 | 我們會針對這些項目 |
| 00:10:55,520 | 00:10:57,520 | 這次的一些漏洞上面 |
| 00:10:57,520 | 00:10:59,520 | 非常明確的去訂定 |
| 00:10:59,560 | 00:11:01,560 | 那接下來我就想要請教 |
| 00:11:01,560 | 00:11:02,560 | 次長 |
| 00:11:02,560 | 00:11:03,560 | 因為我們剛剛講的 |
| 00:11:03,560 | 00:11:04,560 | 就是24小時要通報 |
| 00:11:04,560 | 00:11:06,560 | 可是這24小時通報 |
| 00:11:06,560 | 00:11:07,560 | 到底是誰通報 |
| 00:11:07,560 | 00:11:08,560 | 是因為你們有講說 |
| 00:11:08,560 | 00:11:10,560 | 是雙軌制對不對 |
| 00:11:10,560 | 00:11:12,560 | 廠商跟驗證機構 |
| 00:11:12,560 | 00:11:13,560 | 檢驗實驗室 |
| 00:11:13,560 | 00:11:14,560 | 那首先第一個問題 |
| 00:11:14,560 | 00:11:15,560 | 想要先請教 |
| 00:11:15,560 | 00:11:16,560 | 24小時是從 |
| 00:11:16,560 | 00:11:17,560 | 什麼時間開始起算 |
| 00:11:17,560 | 00:11:18,560 | 是實驗室 |
| 00:11:18,560 | 00:11:19,560 | 他們發現有問題 |
| 00:11:19,560 | 00:11:20,560 | 報告知悉 |
| 00:11:20,560 | 00:11:21,560 | 是實驗室 |
| 00:11:21,560 | 00:11:22,560 | 知悉 |
| 00:11:22,560 | 00:11:23,560 | 等一下我先釐清一下 |
| 00:11:23,560 | 00:11:24,560 | 因為會有幾個斷點 |
| 00:11:24,560 | 00:11:25,560 | 我想先釐清 |
| 00:11:25,560 | 00:11:26,560 | 是實驗室的儀器 |
| 00:11:26,560 | 00:11:27,560 | 發現有問題 |
| 00:11:27,560 | 00:11:28,560 | 還是實驗室內部完成複合 |
| 00:11:28,599 | 00:11:29,599 | 還是說 |
| 00:11:29,599 | 00:11:30,599 | 他們正式的檢驗 |
| 00:11:30,599 | 00:11:32,599 | 報告出具的時候 |
| 00:11:32,599 | 00:11:33,599 | 到底在哪一個時間點 |
| 00:11:33,599 | 00:11:34,599 | 開始起算24小時 |
| 00:11:34,599 | 00:11:35,599 | 我覺得這個時間點 |
| 00:11:35,599 | 00:11:36,599 | 要寫得非常非常明確 |
| 00:11:36,599 | 00:11:37,599 | 不然大家就會說 |
| 00:11:37,599 | 00:11:39,599 | 我的認定是這個時間之後 |
| 00:11:39,599 | 00:11:40,599 | 才開始算24小時 |
| 00:11:40,599 | 00:11:42,599 | 這樣到時候就是揮不完 |
| 00:11:42,599 | 00:11:43,599 | 所以我們是不是可以 |
| 00:11:43,599 | 00:11:44,599 | 在這個24小時上面 |
| 00:11:44,599 | 00:11:47,599 | 非常明確的訂定出來 |
| 00:11:47,599 | 00:11:48,599 | 我們接下來就是 |
| 00:11:48,599 | 00:11:49,599 | 會在那個規定裡面 |
| 00:11:49,599 | 00:11:51,599 | 寫到他出具報告 |
| 00:11:51,599 | 00:11:52,599 | 等於是他蓋了張 |
| 00:11:52,599 | 00:11:53,599 | 正式這個報告出具 |
| 00:11:53,599 | 00:11:54,599 | 他就要出來了 |
| 00:11:54,599 | 00:11:55,599 | 這一次我們發現 |
| 00:11:55,599 | 00:11:56,599 | 就是相關的廠商 |
| 00:11:56,599 | 00:11:57,599 | 他們有延遲 |
| 00:11:57,640 | 00:11:58,640 | 通報也是從 |
| 00:11:58,640 | 00:11:59,640 | 他什麼時候送驗 |
| 00:11:59,640 | 00:12:00,640 | 什麼時候報告出來 |
| 00:12:00,640 | 00:12:02,640 | 發現他是延遲非常多天 |
| 00:12:02,640 | 00:12:03,640 | 對 |
| 00:12:03,640 | 00:12:04,640 | 所以這個部分 |
| 00:12:04,640 | 00:12:05,640 | 接下來應該就是 |
| 00:12:05,640 | 00:12:06,640 | 會寫到規定裡 |
| 00:12:06,640 | 00:12:07,640 | 我也希望就是說 |
| 00:12:07,640 | 00:12:08,640 | 因為在這個 |
| 00:12:08,640 | 00:12:09,640 | 正式的報告 |
| 00:12:09,640 | 00:12:10,640 | 檢驗出具之後 |
| 00:12:10,640 | 00:12:11,640 | 他都應該要 |
| 00:12:11,640 | 00:12:13,640 | 盡快的告訴大家 |
| 00:12:13,640 | 00:12:14,640 | 如果有問題的話 |
| 00:12:14,640 | 00:12:16,640 | 他會採取哪一些停產 |
| 00:12:16,640 | 00:12:17,640 | 封存 |
| 00:12:17,640 | 00:12:19,640 | 甚至是停止出貨的措施 |
| 00:12:19,640 | 00:12:20,640 | 這個部分 |
| 00:12:20,640 | 00:12:21,640 | 是不是也可以去要求 |
| 00:12:21,640 | 00:12:22,640 | 其實原來在食安法裡面 |
| 00:12:22,640 | 00:12:23,640 | 就有 |
| 00:12:23,640 | 00:12:24,640 | 當他發現他的這個 |
| 00:12:24,640 | 00:12:26,640 | 原來食安法第七條的 |
| 00:12:26,680 | 00:12:27,680 | 第五項 |
| 00:12:27,680 | 00:12:28,680 | 食品業者發現 |
| 00:12:28,680 | 00:12:30,680 | 產品有危害衛生安全之餘 |
| 00:12:30,680 | 00:12:31,680 | 他就應該主動停止 |
| 00:12:31,680 | 00:12:33,680 | 製造加工販賣跟辦理回收 |
| 00:12:33,680 | 00:12:34,680 | 並且通報 |
| 00:12:34,680 | 00:12:35,680 | 直轄縣市主管機關 |
| 00:12:35,680 | 00:12:36,680 | 那這一次 |
| 00:12:36,680 | 00:12:37,680 | 我們會把時間 |
| 00:12:37,680 | 00:12:38,680 | 更定得更清楚一點 |
| 00:12:38,680 | 00:12:39,680 | 好的 好 |
| 00:12:39,680 | 00:12:40,680 | 那再來就是雙軌通報 |
| 00:12:40,680 | 00:12:41,680 | 我也想要再釐清 |
| 00:12:41,680 | 00:12:42,680 | 因為我們講 |
| 00:12:42,680 | 00:12:43,680 | 雙軌通報可能就會 |
| 00:12:43,680 | 00:12:44,680 | 有人覺得說 |
| 00:12:44,680 | 00:12:45,680 | 那個那沒關係 |
| 00:12:45,680 | 00:12:46,680 | 反正實驗室應該會通報 |
| 00:12:46,680 | 00:12:47,680 | 業者可能就沒有通報 |
| 00:12:47,680 | 00:12:48,680 | 所以我覺得這地方 |
| 00:12:48,680 | 00:12:49,680 | 也要去強化 |
| 00:12:49,680 | 00:12:50,680 | 兩邊都要有責任 |
| 00:12:50,680 | 00:12:52,680 | 兩邊都必須付起這個 |
| 00:12:52,680 | 00:12:53,680 | 工作 |
| 00:12:53,680 | 00:12:54,680 | 不然就會變成是 |
| 00:12:54,680 | 00:12:55,680 | 大家就說 |
| 00:12:55,680 | 00:12:56,480 | 沒關係他有通報 |
| 00:12:56,520 | 00:12:57,520 | 他沒有通報是他的問題 |
| 00:12:57,520 | 00:12:58,520 | 我覺得這個是絕對不可以 |
| 00:12:58,520 | 00:12:59,520 | 其實因為兩邊 |
| 00:12:59,520 | 00:13:00,520 | 都有要求他們要通報 |
| 00:13:00,520 | 00:13:01,520 | 所以反而變成 |
| 00:13:01,520 | 00:13:02,520 | 是任何一方 |
| 00:13:02,520 | 00:13:03,520 | 要是有delay |
| 00:13:03,520 | 00:13:04,520 | 他們會有很大的壓力 |
| 00:13:04,520 | 00:13:05,520 | 對 這個東西 |
| 00:13:05,520 | 00:13:06,520 | 那再來就是還有一個 |
| 00:13:06,520 | 00:13:07,520 | 就是非最不可的問題 |
| 00:13:07,520 | 00:13:08,520 | 我也想要請教 |
| 00:13:08,520 | 00:13:09,520 | 就是說 |
| 00:13:09,520 | 00:13:10,520 | 因為中聯油品 |
| 00:13:10,520 | 00:13:11,520 | 原本我們查到是29P |
| 00:13:11,520 | 00:13:12,520 | 那第30P |
| 00:13:12,520 | 00:13:13,520 | 是因為宜蘭縣政府 |
| 00:13:13,520 | 00:13:14,520 | 衛生單位 |
| 00:13:14,520 | 00:13:16,520 | 他們反向追查的時候 |
| 00:13:16,520 | 00:13:17,520 | 才發現其實還有 |
| 00:13:17,520 | 00:13:18,520 | 一批 |
| 00:13:18,520 | 00:13:21,520 | 這個314115001的這個油品 |
| 00:13:21,520 | 00:13:22,520 | 並沒有列入 |
| 00:13:22,520 | 00:13:23,520 | 原本的這個 |
| 00:13:23,560 | 00:13:24,560 | 29P裡面 |
| 00:13:24,560 | 00:13:25,560 | 對 油品清測 |
| 00:13:25,560 | 00:13:26,560 | 所以最後才會變成 |
| 00:13:26,560 | 00:13:28,560 | 30P這樣子 |
| 00:13:28,560 | 00:13:29,560 | 然後後來 |
| 00:13:29,560 | 00:13:30,560 | 因為他們沒有申報 |
| 00:13:30,560 | 00:13:31,560 | 所以食藥署 |
| 00:13:31,560 | 00:13:32,560 | 又再去罰了他們 |
| 00:13:32,560 | 00:13:33,560 | 所以總共現在 |
| 00:13:33,560 | 00:13:34,560 | 也是罰了這個 |
| 00:13:34,560 | 00:13:35,560 | 累計應該是 |
| 00:13:35,560 | 00:13:36,560 | 已經裁罰了 |
| 00:13:36,560 | 00:13:37,560 | 1億710020萬 |
| 00:13:37,560 | 00:13:39,560 | 那我想要問一下 |
| 00:13:39,560 | 00:13:40,560 | 就是第30P |
| 00:13:40,560 | 00:13:41,560 | 在非追不可裡面 |
| 00:13:41,560 | 00:13:42,560 | 就是這個系統裡面 |
| 00:13:42,560 | 00:13:44,560 | 我們到底有沒有資料 |
| 00:13:44,560 | 00:13:45,560 | 有沒有登錄 |
| 00:13:45,560 | 00:13:46,560 | 那什麼時間登錄的 |
| 00:13:46,560 | 00:13:48,560 | 那內容又包含什麼 |
| 00:13:48,560 | 00:13:49,560 | 我們到底有沒有掌握到 |
| 00:13:49,560 | 00:13:50,560 | 外國委員 |
| 00:13:50,560 | 00:13:51,560 | 其實這個事情 |
| 00:13:51,560 | 00:13:52,560 | 我都沒有看過 |
| 00:13:52,599 | 00:13:53,599 | 其實這個事情 |
| 00:13:53,599 | 00:13:54,599 | 我們當時 |
| 00:13:54,599 | 00:13:55,599 | 對於地方 |
| 00:13:55,599 | 00:13:56,599 | 就是對於這個 |
| 00:13:56,599 | 00:13:57,599 | 廠商對中聯 |
| 00:13:57,599 | 00:13:58,599 | 我們要求就是 |
| 00:13:58,599 | 00:13:59,599 | 4到6月的所有P次 |
| 00:13:59,599 | 00:14:00,599 | 要請他報上來 |
| 00:14:00,599 | 00:14:01,599 | 對 |
| 00:14:01,599 | 00:14:02,599 | 那4到6月的所有P次 |
| 00:14:02,599 | 00:14:03,599 | 在報的時候 |
| 00:14:03,599 | 00:14:04,599 | 其實他們在 |
| 00:14:04,599 | 00:14:05,599 | 等於說他 |
| 00:14:05,599 | 00:14:06,599 | 後來發現他漏報了 |
| 00:14:06,599 | 00:14:07,599 | 0401這一批 |
| 00:14:07,599 | 00:14:08,599 | 對 |
| 00:14:08,599 | 00:14:09,599 | 可是我們在我們的 |
| 00:14:09,599 | 00:14:10,599 | 非追這一邊 |
| 00:14:10,599 | 00:14:11,599 | 其實我們有發現 |
| 00:14:11,599 | 00:14:12,599 | 就是0629這一批 |
| 00:14:12,599 | 00:14:14,599 | 好 所以其實他們 |
| 00:14:14,599 | 00:14:15,599 | 他們事實上 |
| 00:14:15,599 | 00:14:16,599 | 當時 |
| 00:14:16,599 | 00:14:17,599 | 我們在我們這裡面 |
| 00:14:17,599 | 00:14:18,599 | 廠商事實上是 |
| 00:14:18,599 | 00:14:19,599 | 後來我們發現 |
| 00:14:19,599 | 00:14:20,599 | 他們漏報0401 |
| 00:14:20,599 | 00:14:21,599 | 那我們那時候 |
| 00:14:21,640 | 00:14:22,640 | 630那一批 |
| 00:14:22,640 | 00:14:23,640 | 對 |
| 00:14:23,640 | 00:14:24,640 | 好 所以就看起來 |
| 00:14:24,640 | 00:14:25,640 | 就會是上下游 |
| 00:14:25,640 | 00:14:26,640 | 廠商我們 |
| 00:14:26,640 | 00:14:27,640 | 大家掌握的資訊 |
| 00:14:27,640 | 00:14:28,640 | 是不一致的嘛 |
| 00:14:28,640 | 00:14:29,640 | 對不對 |
| 00:14:29,640 | 00:14:30,640 | 我們其實在非追 |
| 00:14:30,640 | 00:14:31,640 | 有跟委員報告一下 |
| 00:14:31,640 | 00:14:32,640 | 就是說我們在非追的系統 |
| 00:14:32,640 | 00:14:33,640 | 過去事實上 |
| 00:14:33,640 | 00:14:34,640 | 就是從廠商這邊 |
| 00:14:34,640 | 00:14:35,640 | 然後出貨 |
| 00:14:35,640 | 00:14:36,640 | 到比方說 |
| 00:14:36,640 | 00:14:37,640 | 這一次他到 |
| 00:14:37,640 | 00:14:38,640 | 這個泰山福茂福壽 |
| 00:14:38,640 | 00:14:39,640 | 這邊我們有非追的部分 |
| 00:14:39,640 | 00:14:40,640 | 那我們這一次修法 |
| 00:14:40,640 | 00:14:41,640 | 我們後續 |
| 00:14:41,640 | 00:14:42,640 | 會再對於 |
| 00:14:42,640 | 00:14:43,640 | 我們後續再往下追 |
| 00:14:43,640 | 00:14:44,640 | 就是說從 |
| 00:14:44,640 | 00:14:45,640 | 比方說以這一次來講 |
| 00:14:45,640 | 00:14:46,640 | 從泰山福茂福壽 |
| 00:14:46,640 | 00:14:47,640 | 他再往下的這個部分 |
| 00:14:47,640 | 00:14:48,640 | 我們會再往下撈 |
| 00:14:48,640 | 00:14:49,640 | 好 因為我想 |
| 00:14:49,640 | 00:14:50,640 | 這邊也是提供一個 |
| 00:14:50,680 | 00:14:51,680 | 提供一個參考 |
| 00:14:52,680 | 00:14:53,680 | 因為我自己 |
| 00:14:53,680 | 00:14:54,680 | 之前也曾經待過 |
| 00:14:54,680 | 00:14:55,680 | 食品業待了4年 |
| 00:14:55,680 | 00:14:57,680 | 我在外鄉的食品業公司 |
| 00:14:57,680 | 00:14:58,680 | 所以我也希望可以提供 |
| 00:14:58,680 | 00:14:59,680 | 美國的制度作為參考 |
| 00:14:59,680 | 00:15:00,680 | 就是說 |
| 00:15:00,680 | 00:15:01,680 | 這個美國制度裡面 |
| 00:15:01,680 | 00:15:02,680 | 它有一個叫 |
| 00:15:02,680 | 00:15:03,680 | Traceability的 |
| 00:15:03,680 | 00:15:04,680 | 這個追溯批號的制度 |
| 00:15:04,680 | 00:15:05,680 | 就是說食品 |
| 00:15:05,680 | 00:15:06,680 | 在首次包裝之後 |
| 00:15:06,680 | 00:15:08,680 | 接收或經過加工混合 |
| 00:15:08,680 | 00:15:09,680 | 重新包裝之後 |
| 00:15:09,680 | 00:15:11,680 | 每一次的轉換都必須 |
| 00:15:11,680 | 00:15:12,680 | 建立所謂的 |
| 00:15:12,680 | 00:15:14,680 | 或延續的批號 |
| 00:15:14,680 | 00:15:15,680 | 那該批號必須 |
| 00:15:15,680 | 00:15:16,680 | 跟相關的生產收穫 |
| 00:15:16,680 | 00:15:18,680 | 出貨資料去做一些連結 |
| 00:15:18,680 | 00:15:19,680 | 那所以他不會 |
| 00:15:19,719 | 00:15:20,719 | 只有製造商 |
| 00:15:20,719 | 00:15:22,719 | 保存一張總清冊 |
| 00:15:22,719 | 00:15:23,719 | 而是供應 |
| 00:15:23,719 | 00:15:24,719 | 這個出供應鏈的 |
| 00:15:24,719 | 00:15:25,719 | 不同業者呢 |
| 00:15:25,719 | 00:15:26,719 | 分別會針對 |
| 00:15:26,719 | 00:15:27,719 | 自己所發生的事件 |
| 00:15:27,719 | 00:15:28,719 | 來保存相關的資料 |
| 00:15:28,719 | 00:15:29,719 | 所以上下游的資料 |
| 00:15:29,719 | 00:15:30,719 | 就可以去對齊 |
| 00:15:30,719 | 00:15:31,719 | 那我們就比較能夠 |
| 00:15:31,719 | 00:15:33,719 | 去做圓啦 真的 |
| 00:15:33,719 | 00:15:35,719 | 那所以在這次的修法上面 |
| 00:15:35,719 | 00:15:36,719 | 是不是也會針對 |
| 00:15:36,719 | 00:15:37,719 | 這個部分來去做調整 |
| 00:15:37,719 | 00:15:38,719 | 謝謝委員 |
| 00:15:38,719 | 00:15:39,719 | 這個部分其實就在 |
| 00:15:39,719 | 00:15:40,719 | 我們的未來的一些辦法 |
| 00:15:40,719 | 00:15:42,719 | 因為這是除了修母法之外 |
| 00:15:42,719 | 00:15:43,719 | 我們未來在一些 |
| 00:15:43,719 | 00:15:44,719 | 執法規會去做修正 |
| 00:15:44,719 | 00:15:45,719 | 那其中一個部分 |
| 00:15:45,719 | 00:15:46,719 | 就是有點類似委員 |
| 00:15:46,719 | 00:15:47,719 | 這樣講的 |
| 00:15:47,719 | 00:15:48,719 | 當然因為我們的食品 |
| 00:15:48,760 | 00:15:49,760 | 非常非常的多 |
| 00:15:49,760 | 00:15:50,760 | 大廠小廠 |
| 00:15:50,760 | 00:15:51,760 | 非常多種 |
| 00:15:51,760 | 00:15:52,760 | 但是我們會針對 |
| 00:15:52,760 | 00:15:53,760 | 像這樣子 |
| 00:15:53,760 | 00:15:54,760 | 比較大型的產業 |
| 00:15:54,760 | 00:15:55,760 | 或者是影響甚至 |
| 00:15:55,760 | 00:15:56,760 | 甚至是全國性的產業 |
| 00:15:56,760 | 00:15:58,760 | 那我們正在規劃 |
| 00:15:58,760 | 00:15:59,760 | 看能不能讓他從上游 |
| 00:15:59,760 | 00:16:00,760 | 一路下去的 |
| 00:16:00,760 | 00:16:01,760 | 那個整個編碼 |
| 00:16:01,760 | 00:16:02,760 | 可以串上來 |
| 00:16:02,760 | 00:16:03,760 | 就像剛剛委員所說的 |
| 00:16:03,760 | 00:16:04,760 | 這樣的例子 |
| 00:16:04,760 | 00:16:05,760 | 我理解 就是說 |
| 00:16:05,760 | 00:16:06,760 | 因為台灣其實有很多的 |
| 00:16:06,760 | 00:16:07,760 | 中小型的製造商 |
| 00:16:07,760 | 00:16:08,760 | 食品製造商 |
| 00:16:08,760 | 00:16:09,760 | 那我會認為說 |
| 00:16:09,760 | 00:16:10,760 | 針對於我們應該要 |
| 00:16:10,760 | 00:16:11,760 | 界定出來 |
| 00:16:11,760 | 00:16:12,760 | 哪些屬於高風險影響面 |
| 00:16:12,760 | 00:16:13,760 | 非常非常大的 |
| 00:16:13,760 | 00:16:14,760 | 它一定要具備 |
| 00:16:14,760 | 00:16:15,760 | 這樣子的功能 |
| 00:16:15,760 | 00:16:16,760 | 因為它可能就是 |
| 00:16:16,760 | 00:16:17,760 | 很多食物品 |
| 00:16:17,800 | 00:16:18,800 | 這部分 |
| 00:16:18,800 | 00:16:19,800 | 好 謝謝 |
| 00:16:19,800 | 00:16:20,800 | 謝謝委員 |