iVOD / 170692
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陳昭姿 @ 第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第26次全體委員會議
| Start Time | End Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00:00,000 | 00:00:01,000 | 委員發言 |
| 00:00:01,000 | 00:00:02,000 | 對 |
| 00:00:02,000 | 00:00:05,000 | 麻煩時部長是稍微再留步好了 |
| 00:00:05,000 | 00:00:07,000 | 因為等隊員再留一會 |
| 00:00:07,000 | 00:00:09,000 | 沒有關係嗎 |
| 00:00:09,000 | 00:00:10,000 | 你不用質詢 |
| 00:00:10,000 | 00:00:13,000 | 那如果因為那個時部長 |
| 00:00:13,000 | 00:00:16,000 | 他待會要趕到什麼行政院去約會報告 |
| 00:00:16,000 | 00:00:19,000 | 那我們就先讓他先離席好了 |
| 00:00:19,000 | 00:00:23,000 | 是署長也要一起離開嗎 |
| 00:00:23,000 | 00:00:25,000 | 好 |
| 00:00:25,000 | 00:00:26,000 | 好 |
| 00:00:26,000 | 00:00:28,000 | 那就是副署長還有次長在這裡 |
| 00:00:28,000 | 00:00:29,000 | 好 |
| 00:00:29,000 | 00:00:30,000 | 那就先 |
| 00:00:30,000 | 00:00:31,000 | 他們兩個先離席 |
| 00:00:31,000 | 00:00:32,000 | 好 |
| 00:00:32,000 | 00:00:33,000 | 接下來有請陳昭智委員質詢 |
| 00:00:33,000 | 00:00:34,000 | 謝謝主席 |
| 00:00:34,000 | 00:00:36,000 | 有請國發會汪直偉 |
| 00:00:36,000 | 00:00:38,000 | 還有經濟部江次長 |
| 00:00:38,000 | 00:00:41,000 | 有請國發會和經濟部 |
| 00:00:46,000 | 00:00:47,000 | 兩位早 |
| 00:00:47,000 | 00:00:50,000 | 我今天的質詢內容都會建立在數字 |
| 00:00:50,000 | 00:00:53,000 | 公函跟法規上 |
| 00:00:53,000 | 00:00:56,000 | 我也希望兩位也能夠就事論事 |
| 00:00:56,000 | 00:00:58,000 | 不要糊弄我 |
| 00:00:58,000 | 00:01:00,000 | 或是這個敷衍我 |
| 00:01:00,000 | 00:01:03,000 | 那依照現行的憲法及憲法法庭 |
| 00:01:03,000 | 00:01:06,000 | 第113年判字第9號有判決 |
| 00:01:06,000 | 00:01:09,000 | 法官員應該在這個 |
| 00:01:09,000 | 00:01:10,000 | 如果有不實質發言 |
| 00:01:10,000 | 00:01:12,000 | 應該要負政治責任 |
| 00:01:12,000 | 00:01:15,000 | 確實我沒有權利用法律來制裁說 |
| 00:01:15,000 | 00:01:17,000 | 沒有說實話的官員 |
| 00:01:17,000 | 00:01:19,000 | 但我相信各位首長就是 |
| 00:01:19,000 | 00:01:21,000 | 希望各位這個首長就是 |
| 00:01:21,000 | 00:01:22,000 | 是就是 |
| 00:01:22,000 | 00:01:23,000 | 不是就不是 |
| 00:01:23,000 | 00:01:24,000 | 有就有 |
| 00:01:24,000 | 00:01:25,000 | 沒有就沒有 |
| 00:01:25,000 | 00:01:26,000 | 謝謝兩位 |
| 00:01:26,000 | 00:01:27,000 | 好 |
| 00:01:27,000 | 00:01:29,000 | 蘇巧慧委員的妹妹蘇巧淳 |
| 00:01:29,000 | 00:01:30,000 | 在2021年8月 |
| 00:01:30,000 | 00:01:33,000 | 開始擔任礦事智能董事 |
| 00:01:33,000 | 00:01:34,000 | 兼營運長 |
| 00:01:34,000 | 00:01:36,000 | 2022年11月 |
| 00:01:36,000 | 00:01:39,000 | 爸爸蘇貞昌擔任行政院院長期間 |
| 00:01:39,000 | 00:01:42,000 | 礦事智能獲得國發 |
| 00:01:42,000 | 00:01:44,000 | 接近1999萬9千元 |
| 00:01:44,000 | 00:01:46,000 | 迴避了上限2000萬的上限 |
| 00:01:46,000 | 00:01:47,000 | 的投資 |
| 00:01:47,000 | 00:01:49,000 | 接著2023年2月 |
| 00:01:49,000 | 00:01:51,000 | 礦事智能宣布獲得 |
| 00:01:51,000 | 00:01:53,000 | 由台積營領頭 |
| 00:01:53,000 | 00:01:55,000 | 國發基金 |
| 00:01:55,000 | 00:01:57,000 | 跟投的150萬美金的 |
| 00:01:57,000 | 00:01:59,000 | PREA輪的募資 |
| 00:01:59,000 | 00:02:01,000 | 2024年再獲得經濟部 |
| 00:02:01,000 | 00:02:03,000 | 商發署120萬 |
| 00:02:03,000 | 00:02:05,000 | 我看到這個時間軸 |
| 00:02:05,000 | 00:02:07,000 | 覺得匪夷所思 |
| 00:02:07,000 | 00:02:08,000 | 很難不聯想 |
| 00:02:08,000 | 00:02:09,000 | 為什麼蘇巧淳 |
| 00:02:09,000 | 00:02:11,000 | 一擔任董事補助 |
| 00:02:11,000 | 00:02:14,000 | 就滾滾跟著而來呢 |
| 00:02:14,000 | 00:02:16,000 | 更離譜的 |
| 00:02:16,000 | 00:02:17,000 | 在國發基金 |
| 00:02:17,000 | 00:02:19,000 | 投資的前一個月 |
| 00:02:19,000 | 00:02:21,000 | 礦事智能旗下的 |
| 00:02:21,000 | 00:02:23,000 | 微谷力平台 |
| 00:02:23,000 | 00:02:25,000 | 才因為涉及投資詐騙 |
| 00:02:25,000 | 00:02:26,000 | 被起訴 |
| 00:02:26,000 | 00:02:28,000 | 請兩位看左邊起訴書 |
| 00:02:28,000 | 00:02:29,000 | 在左邊 |
| 00:02:29,000 | 00:02:31,000 | 起訴理由把它放大了 |
| 00:02:31,000 | 00:02:32,000 | 寫在右邊 |
| 00:02:32,000 | 00:02:35,000 | 連這種淪為詐騙工具的 |
| 00:02:35,000 | 00:02:36,000 | 平台 |
| 00:02:36,000 | 00:02:38,000 | 請問國發會 |
| 00:02:38,000 | 00:02:40,000 | 你們也敢拿人民的血汗錢 |
| 00:02:40,000 | 00:02:41,000 | 去投資嗎 |
| 00:02:41,000 | 00:02:43,000 | 你們是省會是閉著眼睛 |
| 00:02:43,000 | 00:02:44,000 | 捂著良心嗎 |
| 00:02:44,000 | 00:02:46,000 | 請國發會回答 |
| 00:02:46,000 | 00:02:47,000 | 我這個問題 |
| 00:02:47,000 | 00:02:49,000 | 跟委員報告 |
| 00:02:49,000 | 00:02:51,000 | 礦事智能這個公司 |
| 00:02:51,000 | 00:02:54,000 | 是透過我們的天使投資方案 |
| 00:02:54,000 | 00:02:56,000 | 天使投資方案是 |
| 00:02:56,000 | 00:02:57,000 | 輔助新創到現在投了 |
| 00:02:57,000 | 00:02:59,000 | 三百多個公司 |
| 00:02:59,000 | 00:03:00,000 | 這是其中一個 |
| 00:03:00,000 | 00:03:01,000 | 就是委員剛剛提到的 |
| 00:03:01,000 | 00:03:03,000 | 2022年的8月 |
| 00:03:03,000 | 00:03:04,000 | 我的意思是說 |
| 00:03:04,000 | 00:03:07,000 | 他見面之前就發生這個前科 |
| 00:03:07,000 | 00:03:09,000 | 那你們還繼續 |
| 00:03:09,000 | 00:03:11,000 | 沒有排除嗎 |
| 00:03:11,000 | 00:03:12,000 | 就是繼續給錢嗎 |
| 00:03:12,000 | 00:03:15,000 | 我要的只是這個部分的答案 |
| 00:03:15,000 | 00:03:16,000 | 跟委員 |
| 00:03:16,000 | 00:03:17,000 | 你覺得這樣適合嗎 |
| 00:03:17,000 | 00:03:18,000 | 你覺得適合嗎 |
| 00:03:18,000 | 00:03:19,000 | 跟委員報告 |
| 00:03:19,000 | 00:03:22,000 | 這一個時間軸上面 |
| 00:03:22,000 | 00:03:24,000 | 這裡的這個判決是 |
| 00:03:24,000 | 00:03:26,000 | 112年 |
| 00:03:26,000 | 00:03:29,000 | 那他提出申請是111年 |
| 00:03:30,000 | 00:03:31,000 | 不對啦 |
| 00:03:31,000 | 00:03:33,000 | 國發今天投資前一個月 |
| 00:03:33,000 | 00:03:35,000 | 他就跑出這個事情 |
| 00:03:35,000 | 00:03:38,000 | 投資前一個月 |
| 00:03:38,000 | 00:03:39,000 | 我們這邊 |
| 00:03:39,000 | 00:03:40,000 | 你趕快去查證 |
| 00:03:40,000 | 00:03:41,000 | 我們這邊的資料 |
| 00:03:41,000 | 00:03:42,000 | 你中檔找的資料都七倍了 |
| 00:03:42,000 | 00:03:43,000 | 111年 |
| 00:03:43,000 | 00:03:44,000 | 我問你 |
| 00:03:44,000 | 00:03:45,000 | 我還是問你 |
| 00:03:45,000 | 00:03:46,000 | 如果一個 |
| 00:03:46,000 | 00:03:47,000 | 如果你現在還在否認 |
| 00:03:47,000 | 00:03:48,000 | 我們要查證 |
| 00:03:48,000 | 00:03:50,000 | 如果一個輪圍詐騙工具的平台 |
| 00:03:50,000 | 00:03:51,000 | 你們會去投資他嗎 |
| 00:03:51,000 | 00:03:53,000 | 你就回答我這個問題就好了 |
| 00:03:53,000 | 00:03:54,000 | 你會去投資他嗎 |
| 00:03:54,000 | 00:03:55,000 | 可以嗎 |
| 00:03:55,000 | 00:03:56,000 | 可以投資嗎 |
| 00:03:56,000 | 00:03:58,000 | 基本上我們會做進職調查 |
| 00:03:58,000 | 00:03:59,000 | 如果有這樣的情況 |
| 00:03:59,000 | 00:04:00,000 | 不行嘛 |
| 00:04:00,000 | 00:04:01,000 | 我們現在不行嘛 |
| 00:04:01,000 | 00:04:02,000 | 對不對 |
| 00:04:02,000 | 00:04:03,000 | 好 從公開判決 |
| 00:04:03,000 | 00:04:04,000 | 可以知道礦石智能 |
| 00:04:04,000 | 00:04:05,000 | 因為他的訂閱功能 |
| 00:04:05,000 | 00:04:07,000 | 跟LINE BOT功能不完善 |
| 00:04:07,000 | 00:04:09,000 | 他整個營收是巨幅的下滑 |
| 00:04:09,000 | 00:04:10,000 | 一間公司的營收 |
| 00:04:10,000 | 00:04:12,000 | 只剩下唯一的來源 |
| 00:04:12,000 | 00:04:13,000 | 營收不斷下滑 |
| 00:04:13,000 | 00:04:15,000 | 公司還進行了縮編 |
| 00:04:15,000 | 00:04:16,000 | 直到2024年 |
| 00:04:16,000 | 00:04:17,000 | 剩下蘇角淳 |
| 00:04:17,000 | 00:04:19,000 | 跟另外七名員工 |
| 00:04:19,000 | 00:04:22,000 | 比一個立法委員辦公室的規模還小 |
| 00:04:23,000 | 00:04:25,000 | 那公司財務處判款2024年 |
| 00:04:25,000 | 00:04:26,000 | 確認拿到 |
| 00:04:26,000 | 00:04:27,000 | 好 經濟部 |
| 00:04:27,000 | 00:04:29,000 | 商發署120萬的補助 |
| 00:04:29,000 | 00:04:30,000 | 請問經濟部 |
| 00:04:30,000 | 00:04:32,000 | 難道是因為綠營權貴 |
| 00:04:32,000 | 00:04:33,000 | 公司財務處問題 |
| 00:04:33,000 | 00:04:34,000 | 你們就給錢嗎 |
| 00:04:34,000 | 00:04:36,000 | 是這樣嗎 |
| 00:04:36,000 | 00:04:37,000 | 報告委員 |
| 00:04:37,000 | 00:04:38,000 | 謝謝委員關心 |
| 00:04:38,000 | 00:04:40,000 | 我們所有的補助案子 |
| 00:04:40,000 | 00:04:42,000 | 都是按照程序來辦理 |
| 00:04:42,000 | 00:04:45,000 | 所以是由當事人的公司來做申請 |
| 00:04:45,000 | 00:04:47,000 | 經過審查委員的通過之後 |
| 00:04:47,000 | 00:04:48,000 | 我們才進行 |
| 00:04:48,000 | 00:04:49,000 | 我剛剛談的事實啊 |
| 00:04:49,000 | 00:04:51,000 | 都是事實啊 |
| 00:04:51,000 | 00:04:53,000 | 是 我們也是經過審核的部分 |
| 00:04:53,000 | 00:04:54,000 | 礦事智能 |
| 00:04:54,000 | 00:04:56,000 | 營收拒伏下滑 |
| 00:04:56,000 | 00:04:58,000 | 營收不斷下滑 |
| 00:04:58,000 | 00:04:59,000 | 然後公司縮編 |
| 00:04:59,000 | 00:05:01,000 | 剩下八名員工 |
| 00:05:01,000 | 00:05:04,000 | 蘇角淳跟七名員工 |
| 00:05:04,000 | 00:05:05,000 | 財務處專礦 |
| 00:05:05,000 | 00:05:06,000 | 但是又繼續給補助 |
| 00:05:06,000 | 00:05:07,000 | 是嗎 |
| 00:05:07,000 | 00:05:08,000 | 那現在全台灣有多少公司 |
| 00:05:08,000 | 00:05:09,000 | 需要你們這樣補助 |
| 00:05:09,000 | 00:05:10,000 | 報告委員 |
| 00:05:10,000 | 00:05:12,000 | 我們的所謂審查案件 |
| 00:05:12,000 | 00:05:13,000 | 都會按規定辦理 |
| 00:05:13,000 | 00:05:14,000 | 如果有經過 |
| 00:05:14,000 | 00:05:17,000 | 而且都必須要經過相關會計師查核 |
| 00:05:17,000 | 00:05:19,000 | 我們才會給予補助 |
| 00:05:19,000 | 00:05:20,000 | 好 |
| 00:05:20,000 | 00:05:22,000 | 希望你們要張著眼睛看 |
| 00:05:22,000 | 00:05:23,000 | 不要這個昧著良心 |
| 00:05:23,000 | 00:05:24,000 | 不會 |
| 00:05:24,000 | 00:05:27,000 | 依照公職人力衝突迴避法的相關規定 |
| 00:05:27,000 | 00:05:28,000 | 投資審查前 |
| 00:05:28,000 | 00:05:31,000 | 被投資的標的要依法填具資料 |
| 00:05:31,000 | 00:05:32,000 | 自行揭露 |
| 00:05:32,000 | 00:05:33,000 | 來 請問國發會 |
| 00:05:33,000 | 00:05:35,000 | 礦事智能有依法揭露嗎 |
| 00:05:35,000 | 00:05:36,000 | 請回答 有或沒有 |
| 00:05:36,000 | 00:05:37,000 | 這個問題很簡單 |
| 00:05:37,000 | 00:05:38,000 | 有或有沒有揭露 |
| 00:05:38,000 | 00:05:40,000 | 跟委員報告 |
| 00:05:40,000 | 00:05:43,000 | 國發基金在受理申請的時候 |
| 00:05:43,000 | 00:05:44,000 | 有沒有依法揭露嗎 |
| 00:05:44,000 | 00:05:47,000 | 礦事智能有沒有這個簡單的問題 |
| 00:05:47,000 | 00:05:49,000 | 國發基金是用投資的方式 |
| 00:05:49,000 | 00:05:51,000 | 在協助產業的發展 |
| 00:05:51,000 | 00:05:53,000 | 但是依公職人員利益衝突迴避法 |
| 00:05:53,000 | 00:05:54,000 | 就是要揭露 |
| 00:05:54,000 | 00:05:55,000 | 有沒有揭露 |
| 00:05:55,000 | 00:05:56,000 | 你回答我 |
| 00:05:56,000 | 00:05:57,000 | 有沒有揭露就好了 |
| 00:05:57,000 | 00:06:00,000 | 公職人員利益衝突迴避法裡面是講 |
| 00:06:00,000 | 00:06:02,000 | 那就是一般的補助 |
| 00:06:02,000 | 00:06:03,000 | 那就是沒有 |
| 00:06:03,000 | 00:06:04,000 | 好 沒有 |
| 00:06:04,000 | 00:06:05,000 | 今天大家都聽到了 |
| 00:06:05,000 | 00:06:06,000 | 全國人民都在聽 |
| 00:06:06,000 | 00:06:07,000 | 沒有揭露 |
| 00:06:07,000 | 00:06:08,000 | 好 我繼續請問你 |
| 00:06:08,000 | 00:06:09,000 | 投資一個涉及詐騙 |
| 00:06:09,000 | 00:06:11,000 | 加上財務困難的平台 |
| 00:06:11,000 | 00:06:13,000 | 這是納稅人的血汗錢 |
| 00:06:13,000 | 00:06:14,000 | 是不是已經打水漂了 |
| 00:06:14,000 | 00:06:15,000 | 請交代 |
| 00:06:15,000 | 00:06:16,000 | 我現在告訴你 |
| 00:06:16,000 | 00:06:17,000 | 這個公司變這個樣子了 |
| 00:06:17,000 | 00:06:18,000 | 那也是事實 |
| 00:06:18,000 | 00:06:21,000 | 那你投資的錢是不是已經打水漂了 |
| 00:06:21,000 | 00:06:22,000 | 請問你 |
| 00:06:22,000 | 00:06:23,000 | 還是很有信心 |
| 00:06:23,000 | 00:06:25,000 | 對這個公司還是很有信心 |
| 00:06:25,000 | 00:06:26,000 | 你回答我 |
| 00:06:26,000 | 00:06:27,000 | 請回答我 |
| 00:06:27,000 | 00:06:28,000 | 跟委員報告 |
| 00:06:28,000 | 00:06:31,000 | 我們國發基金在天使投資方案 |
| 00:06:31,000 | 00:06:35,000 | 這個持股比例在這家公司是8.55% |
| 00:06:35,000 | 00:06:38,000 | 我們也沒有董監事的這個席次 |
| 00:06:39,000 | 00:06:42,000 | 那所以這個關於公司治理 |
| 00:06:42,000 | 00:06:45,000 | 我們就是透過這個各種方式 |
| 00:06:45,000 | 00:06:46,000 | 去取得相關的資料 |
| 00:06:46,000 | 00:06:48,000 | 來瞭解他公司的營運 |
| 00:06:48,000 | 00:06:50,000 | 直瞇 別說太多 |
| 00:06:50,000 | 00:06:52,000 | 我是只會跟你問說 |
| 00:06:52,000 | 00:06:54,000 | 你投資一個涉及詐騙 |
| 00:06:54,000 | 00:06:55,000 | 這個詐騙我有判決書給你看 |
| 00:06:55,000 | 00:06:57,000 | 判決內容給你看 |
| 00:06:57,000 | 00:06:58,000 | 那加上財務困難的平台 |
| 00:06:58,000 | 00:06:59,000 | 一直縮編 |
| 00:06:59,000 | 00:07:00,000 | 剩下沒幾個人 |
| 00:07:00,000 | 00:07:03,000 | 一個規模比個立法院委員的辦公室還小 |
| 00:07:03,000 | 00:07:05,000 | 那你還是把這筆錢給出去了嘛 |
| 00:07:05,000 | 00:07:06,000 | 這是納稅人的錢 |
| 00:07:06,000 | 00:07:07,000 | 不是你們的錢喔 |
| 00:07:07,000 | 00:07:09,000 | 不是你們的人 是我們的錢喔 |
| 00:07:09,000 | 00:07:11,000 | 是 我跟委員報告就是 |
| 00:07:11,000 | 00:07:12,000 | 那你還有信心嗎 |
| 00:07:12,000 | 00:07:13,000 | 這個錢丟出去可以嗎 |
| 00:07:13,000 | 00:07:15,000 | 剛剛我提到的就是說 |
| 00:07:15,000 | 00:07:19,000 | 他申請的時候是111年8月23號 |
| 00:07:19,000 | 00:07:22,000 | 那剛剛提的這一個是在那個之後 |
| 00:07:22,000 | 00:07:25,000 | 那之後他還有一次來申請現金增資 |
| 00:07:25,000 | 00:07:28,000 | 後面還有在訴訟這個判決之後 |
| 00:07:28,000 | 00:07:29,000 | 還有一次來現金增資 |
| 00:07:29,000 | 00:07:30,000 | 你把名字拿掉 |
| 00:07:30,000 | 00:07:31,000 | 我剛剛就問你嘛 |
| 00:07:31,000 | 00:07:33,000 | 這幾個投資詐騙的平台 |
| 00:07:33,000 | 00:07:34,000 | 那你要不要繼續投資他 |
| 00:07:34,000 | 00:07:35,000 | 不可以還是可以 |
| 00:07:35,000 | 00:07:37,000 | 如果有一個詐騙平台有前科 |
| 00:07:37,000 | 00:07:38,000 | 你要繼續給錢嗎 |
| 00:07:38,000 | 00:07:41,000 | 你可以拿我們那筆錢給他嗎 |
| 00:07:41,000 | 00:07:45,000 | 有這樣的事實在審議投評會是不會通過的 |
| 00:07:45,000 | 00:07:47,000 | 好 爸爸當行政院長 |
| 00:07:47,000 | 00:07:50,000 | 女兒的公司就能要進兩千萬上限的國發基金投資 |
| 00:07:50,000 | 00:07:52,000 | 這就是執政黨的這個利益迴避標準嘛 |
| 00:07:52,000 | 00:07:53,000 | 故事還沒有結束 |
| 00:07:53,000 | 00:07:54,000 | 我們來看另外一家 |
| 00:07:54,000 | 00:07:55,000 | 歪如科技 |
| 00:07:55,000 | 00:07:57,000 | 蘇小淳在裡面擔任旗下 |
| 00:07:57,000 | 00:08:00,000 | 他擔任旗下那個AkaSwap的執行長 |
| 00:08:00,000 | 00:08:03,000 | 短短時間內這家公司連續拿了經濟部 |
| 00:08:03,000 | 00:08:05,000 | 經濟部好幾百萬的補助啊 |
| 00:08:05,000 | 00:08:06,000 | 請問經濟部 |
| 00:08:06,000 | 00:08:08,000 | 你們的給的補助是看專業能力 |
| 00:08:08,000 | 00:08:09,000 | 還是看背後的門神 |
| 00:08:09,000 | 00:08:10,000 | 請告訴我 |
| 00:08:10,000 | 00:08:13,000 | 報告委員申請的公司是歪如 |
| 00:08:13,000 | 00:08:17,000 | 那就我們了解這個蘇小淳 |
| 00:08:17,000 | 00:08:18,000 | 按照這個檢討的專門 |
| 00:08:18,000 | 00:08:20,000 | 他旗下有AkaSwap你也很清楚 |
| 00:08:20,000 | 00:08:21,000 | 下面我還有資料啊 |
| 00:08:21,000 | 00:08:24,000 | 我們對於補助的對象是歪如科技 |
| 00:08:24,000 | 00:08:26,000 | 不是他下包的廠商 |
| 00:08:26,000 | 00:08:28,000 | 你這樣講喔 |
| 00:08:28,000 | 00:08:30,000 | 來請你繼續聽好經濟部也一起聽好 |
| 00:08:30,000 | 00:08:33,000 | 連蘇小淳自己在接受經濟部商發署 |
| 00:08:33,000 | 00:08:35,000 | 訪問的時候 |
| 00:08:35,000 | 00:08:36,000 | 我都有資料喔 |
| 00:08:36,000 | 00:08:40,000 | 都公開承認歪如科技就是AkaSwap的營運者 |
| 00:08:40,000 | 00:08:42,000 | 他自己說的啦 |
| 00:08:42,000 | 00:08:44,000 | 你不用再退縣黃了啦 |
| 00:08:44,000 | 00:08:48,000 | 既然實際營運者是立委的二等 |
| 00:08:48,000 | 00:08:50,000 | 二清等親屬經濟部審查師 |
| 00:08:50,000 | 00:08:53,000 | 沒有要求填寫利益衝突揭露表嗎 |
| 00:08:53,000 | 00:08:56,000 | 沒有嗎還是遇到這個蘇家族就自動放水呢 |
| 00:08:56,000 | 00:08:58,000 | 報告委員 |
| 00:08:58,000 | 00:08:59,000 | 他自己都說是啦 |
| 00:08:59,000 | 00:09:01,000 | 他是他的下包公司 |
| 00:09:01,000 | 00:09:05,000 | 那歪如科技的負責人等等的登記不是 |
| 00:09:05,000 | 00:09:06,000 | 你自己就說是啊 |
| 00:09:06,000 | 00:09:07,000 | 你要跟我說不是喔 |
| 00:09:07,000 | 00:09:09,000 | 他登他公開的登記的資料 |
| 00:09:09,000 | 00:09:10,000 | 他不是 |
| 00:09:10,000 | 00:09:11,000 | 今天這個 |
| 00:09:11,000 | 00:09:12,000 | 他下包的廠商 |
| 00:09:12,000 | 00:09:13,000 | 歪如科技的次長在這邊 |
| 00:09:13,000 | 00:09:15,000 | 我自己擔任那個健保署 |
| 00:09:15,000 | 00:09:17,000 | 將近三十年的這個專家審查委員 |
| 00:09:17,000 | 00:09:21,000 | 大概我估算三年當審過七八件這個新藥申請案 |
| 00:09:21,000 | 00:09:26,000 | 我每一案足案都要填寫利益衝突 |
| 00:09:26,000 | 00:09:28,000 | 個別的藥品 |
| 00:09:28,000 | 00:09:30,000 | 那我請問你這麼重要的事情 |
| 00:09:31,000 | 00:09:33,000 | 健保署會管你管嗎 |
| 00:09:34,000 | 00:09:35,000 | 你不需要看嗎 |
| 00:09:35,000 | 00:09:37,000 | 不會看利益回避這個衝突的部分嗎 |
| 00:09:37,000 | 00:09:38,000 | 不需要嗎 |
| 00:09:38,000 | 00:09:41,000 | 還是你遇到蘇家人就自動放水 |
| 00:09:41,000 | 00:09:44,000 | 我們對於所有的補助案都會提示申請的廠商 |
| 00:09:44,000 | 00:09:47,000 | 這件事我們跟經濟部有所知喔 |
| 00:09:47,000 | 00:09:49,000 | 今天這回我們直接證實 |
| 00:09:49,000 | 00:09:50,000 | 歪如科技在申請補助時 |
| 00:09:50,000 | 00:09:54,000 | 根本就沒有提供公職人身份關係揭露表 |
| 00:09:54,000 | 00:09:57,000 | 為什麼經濟部可以容許這件事發生 |
| 00:09:57,000 | 00:10:00,000 | 難道真的是綠營全貴就能夠閉著眼睛給補助嗎 |
| 00:10:00,000 | 00:10:02,000 | 給全民各交代吧 |
| 00:10:02,000 | 00:10:04,000 | 因為根據利衝法的關係 |
| 00:10:04,000 | 00:10:08,000 | 是董監事還有負責人要填具相關的資料 |
| 00:10:08,000 | 00:10:09,000 | 但是歪如科技 |
| 00:10:09,000 | 00:10:11,000 | 就是他填什麼你都不在乎啊 |
| 00:10:11,000 | 00:10:12,000 | 你填完我就給啊 |
| 00:10:12,000 | 00:10:14,000 | 你都不用查證 |
| 00:10:14,000 | 00:10:16,000 | 如果不填了怎麼辦呢 |
| 00:10:16,000 | 00:10:17,000 | 那形同虛設嗎 |
| 00:10:17,000 | 00:10:19,000 | 因為我們是按照利益衝突 |
| 00:10:19,000 | 00:10:20,000 | 你們跟我們證實了歪如科技 |
| 00:10:20,000 | 00:10:22,000 | 根本沒有提供這個利益衝突關係喔 |
| 00:10:22,000 | 00:10:24,000 | 沒有揭露喔 |
| 00:10:24,000 | 00:10:27,000 | 這是非常重大的事情喔 |
| 00:10:29,000 | 00:10:32,000 | 對不對今天沒有到場躲在監察院 |
| 00:10:32,000 | 00:10:33,000 | 躲在監察院 |
| 00:10:33,000 | 00:10:38,000 | 然後再監看今天的國會頻道的監察院代表 |
| 00:10:38,000 | 00:10:41,000 | 公職人的二親等親屬擔任相關職務申請補助 |
| 00:10:41,000 | 00:10:43,000 | 就必須依法揭露啊 |
| 00:10:43,000 | 00:10:44,000 | 施曉蔚身為立委 |
| 00:10:44,000 | 00:10:45,000 | 一方面審查國家預算 |
| 00:10:45,000 | 00:10:47,000 | 一方面讓妹妹的公司拿補助啊 |
| 00:10:47,000 | 00:10:49,000 | 就完全沒有申報啊 |
| 00:10:49,000 | 00:10:51,000 | 這樣沒有違法嗎 |
| 00:10:51,000 | 00:10:52,000 | 你們要配合嗎 |
| 00:10:52,000 | 00:10:54,000 | 其他部分都要配合嗎 |
| 00:10:56,000 | 00:10:58,000 | 你們今天談的部分 |
| 00:10:58,000 | 00:11:00,000 | 我繼續會用資料來追索 |
| 00:11:00,000 | 00:11:04,000 | 我們要有一個對人民講清楚說明白 |
| 00:11:04,000 | 00:11:05,000 | 好謝謝兩位首長 |
| 00:11:05,000 | 00:11:06,000 | 謝謝主席 |