iVOD / 170686
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劉建國 @
| Start Time | End Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00:00,000 | 00:00:07,000 | 謝謝 有請部長 |
| 00:00:07,000 | 00:00:08,000 | 有請石崇良部長 |
| 00:00:08,000 | 00:00:14,000 | 部長如果剛剛照委員委員 |
| 00:00:14,000 | 00:00:17,000 | 我們依照食安法的第41條 |
| 00:00:17,000 | 00:00:20,000 | 那77月1號FDA |
| 00:00:20,000 | 00:00:22,000 | 做這樣的宣布就不對了 |
| 00:00:22,000 | 00:00:25,000 | 月保代儲 |
| 00:00:25,000 | 00:00:28,000 | 跟委員說明喔 |
| 00:00:28,000 | 00:00:31,000 | 因為在食安法第4條第5項 |
| 00:00:31,000 | 00:00:33,000 | 也有授權給主管機關 |
| 00:00:33,000 | 00:00:38,000 | 對於這些停止製造生產 |
| 00:00:38,000 | 00:00:41,000 | 下架也有對重大的 |
| 00:00:41,000 | 00:00:43,000 | 那個是只針對重大的 |
| 00:00:43,000 | 00:00:45,000 | 那麼我們也有這個權利 |
| 00:00:45,000 | 00:00:48,000 | 重大 食安的問題 |
| 00:00:48,000 | 00:00:50,000 | 如果一直要持續的用這種 |
| 00:00:50,000 | 00:00:52,000 | 就有觀念說它叫做重大 |
| 00:00:52,000 | 00:00:54,000 | 所以中央就必須處理 |
| 00:00:54,000 | 00:00:56,000 | 那這樣的思維 |
| 00:00:56,000 | 00:00:59,000 | 會在這次修法的過程裡面 |
| 00:00:59,000 | 00:01:01,000 | 會有很大的問題存在喔 |
| 00:01:01,000 | 00:01:02,000 | 食安的問題就是食安的問題 |
| 00:01:02,000 | 00:01:04,000 | 沒有在分什麼重大或不重大 |
| 00:01:04,000 | 00:01:06,000 | 應該有這樣的思維啦 |
| 00:01:06,000 | 00:01:08,000 | 我從三個面下來跟部長討論 |
| 00:01:08,000 | 00:01:10,000 | 我們4月6號 |
| 00:01:10,000 | 00:01:14,000 | 4月到6月的油品共是30批嘛 |
| 00:01:14,000 | 00:01:15,000 | 對不對 對 |
| 00:01:15,000 | 00:01:16,000 | 那昨天在部長的宣布下 |
| 00:01:16,000 | 00:01:18,000 | 確定有19批是安全的 |
| 00:01:18,000 | 00:01:20,000 | 它可以重新上架沒有錯嘛 |
| 00:01:20,000 | 00:01:23,000 | 那剩下11批中有3批是還沒有出貨 |
| 00:01:23,000 | 00:01:25,000 | 然後11扣3就剩8批 |
| 00:01:25,000 | 00:01:26,000 | 7批有問題 |
| 00:01:26,000 | 00:01:29,000 | 另外一批是無檢體 |
| 00:01:29,000 | 00:01:31,000 | 確定不可以再上架的油品嘛 |
| 00:01:31,000 | 00:01:33,000 | 那也就是8批 |
| 00:01:33,000 | 00:01:36,000 | 這8批衛部跟FD要怎麼處理 |
| 00:01:36,000 | 00:01:39,000 | 這個通通都是下架回收 |
| 00:01:39,000 | 00:01:41,000 | 回收 回收完之後咧 |
| 00:01:41,000 | 00:01:43,000 | 以上有來講 |
| 00:01:43,000 | 00:01:46,000 | 它有時候可以去做生殖柴油 |
| 00:01:46,000 | 00:01:48,000 | 去處理掉這樣 |
| 00:01:48,000 | 00:01:49,000 | 做生殖柴油 |
| 00:01:49,000 | 00:01:51,000 | 然後全部都做生殖柴油 |
| 00:01:51,000 | 00:01:54,000 | 還是怎樣處理的一個SOP |
| 00:01:54,000 | 00:01:56,000 | 能不能簡單說明清楚一下 |
| 00:01:56,000 | 00:01:58,000 | 因為量體太大嘛 |
| 00:01:58,000 | 00:01:59,000 | 總共8批嘛 |
| 00:01:59,000 | 00:02:01,000 | 那8批到底多少量 |
| 00:02:01,000 | 00:02:03,000 | 然後你們要怎麼做處理 |
| 00:02:03,000 | 00:02:05,000 | 怎麼處理 |
| 00:02:05,000 | 00:02:07,000 | 當然這個你過去的 |
| 00:02:07,000 | 00:02:09,000 | 這個我們的SOP |
| 00:02:09,000 | 00:02:12,000 | 這是由地方來協助處理 |
| 00:02:12,000 | 00:02:15,000 | 因為這個公司在哪裡 |
| 00:02:15,000 | 00:02:17,000 | 就是主管機關 |
| 00:02:17,000 | 00:02:19,000 | 在地的主管機關去處理 |
| 00:02:19,000 | 00:02:21,000 | 不過我們會來協助 |
| 00:02:21,000 | 00:02:23,000 | 誰監督不是協助誰監督 |
| 00:02:23,000 | 00:02:25,000 | 那萬一又出問題咧 |
| 00:02:25,000 | 00:02:27,000 | 誰要負責 |
| 00:02:27,000 | 00:02:29,000 | 誰監督啦 |
| 00:02:29,000 | 00:02:31,000 | 不管你要流向去什麼地方 |
| 00:02:31,000 | 00:02:33,000 | 甚至達到要銷毀的程度 |
| 00:02:33,000 | 00:02:35,000 | 那地方政府來處理 |
| 00:02:35,000 | 00:02:37,000 | 地方衛生局來執行 |
| 00:02:37,000 | 00:02:39,000 | 那誰來監督 |
| 00:02:39,000 | 00:02:41,000 | 好 按照我們的這個規定呢 |
| 00:02:41,000 | 00:02:45,000 | 這個業者就要開始寫這個銷毀計畫 |
| 00:02:45,000 | 00:02:46,000 | 銷毀計畫 |
| 00:02:46,000 | 00:02:47,000 | 這個要怎麼處理 |
| 00:02:47,000 | 00:02:49,000 | 全部是銷毀 |
| 00:02:49,000 | 00:02:51,000 | 沒有再留用去做生殖品才有 |
| 00:02:51,000 | 00:02:53,000 | 那也是一種選擇啦 |
| 00:02:53,000 | 00:02:55,000 | 那麼再來的話呢 |
| 00:02:55,000 | 00:02:57,000 | 就會由衛生局來審核 |
| 00:02:57,000 | 00:02:59,000 | 他這個銷毀計畫 |
| 00:02:59,000 | 00:03:01,000 | 是不是妥適OK |
| 00:03:01,000 | 00:03:03,000 | 然後才由衛生局來監督 |
| 00:03:03,000 | 00:03:05,000 | 業者按照這個計畫來實施 |
| 00:03:05,000 | 00:03:07,000 | 那這個需要有存證 |
| 00:03:07,000 | 00:03:09,000 | 就是要攝影存證 |
| 00:03:09,000 | 00:03:11,000 | 留有出面紀錄 |
| 00:03:11,000 | 00:03:13,000 | 這樣 |
| 00:03:13,000 | 00:03:15,000 | 地方衛生局誰來監督 |
| 00:03:15,000 | 00:03:17,000 | 地方衛生局 |
| 00:03:17,000 | 00:03:19,000 | 他們執行不用監督 |
| 00:03:19,000 | 00:03:21,000 | 就是他們去監督業者 |
| 00:03:21,000 | 00:03:23,000 | 怎麼處理 |
| 00:03:23,000 | 00:03:25,000 | 就按照第八條的規定來執行 |
| 00:03:25,000 | 00:03:27,000 | 地方主管機關 |
| 00:03:27,000 | 00:03:29,000 | 這個我們有訂了一個 |
| 00:03:29,000 | 00:03:31,000 | 叫食品及其相關產品 |
| 00:03:31,000 | 00:03:33,000 | 回收銷毀處理 |
| 00:03:33,000 | 00:03:35,000 | 辦法的第八條來處理 |
| 00:03:35,000 | 00:03:37,000 | 這個都明訂了 |
| 00:03:37,000 | 00:03:39,000 | 我知道 |
| 00:03:39,000 | 00:03:41,000 | 食安法裡面 |
| 00:03:41,000 | 00:03:43,000 | 原本通通有明訂嘛 |
| 00:03:43,000 | 00:03:45,000 | 就是沒有人要叫食安法 |
| 00:03:45,000 | 00:03:47,000 | 這樣的方式去處理 |
| 00:03:47,000 | 00:03:49,000 | 所以我現在講說這一些 |
| 00:03:49,000 | 00:03:51,000 | 要銷毀的8P的這些油品 |
| 00:03:53,000 | 00:03:55,000 | 地方政府來執行 |
| 00:03:55,000 | 00:03:57,000 | 誰來監督 |
| 00:03:57,000 | 00:03:59,000 | 就是他由業者執行 |
| 00:03:59,000 | 00:04:01,000 | 然後由 |
| 00:04:01,000 | 00:04:03,000 | 地方主管機關監督 |
| 00:04:03,000 | 00:04:05,000 | 那中央要不要派人督導 |
| 00:04:05,000 | 00:04:07,000 | 我們可以 |
| 00:04:07,000 | 00:04:09,000 | 不然再出問題誰來承擔 |
| 00:04:09,000 | 00:04:11,000 | 我們會派人去 |
| 00:04:11,000 | 00:04:13,000 | 這個要很明確 |
| 00:04:13,000 | 00:04:15,000 | 好不好 |
| 00:04:15,000 | 00:04:17,000 | 過去已經執行過很多次了 |
| 00:04:17,000 | 00:04:19,000 | OK |
| 00:04:19,000 | 00:04:21,000 | 我這次要提醒部長跟署長一件事情 |
| 00:04:21,000 | 00:04:23,000 | 就這件 |
| 00:04:23,000 | 00:04:25,000 | 這個事件的中聯油品 |
| 00:04:25,000 | 00:04:27,000 | 他其實現在包括我們都知道了 |
| 00:04:27,000 | 00:04:29,000 | 台山胡壽還有胡茂 |
| 00:04:29,000 | 00:04:31,000 | 他市佔率應該是3到4成左右 |
| 00:04:31,000 | 00:04:33,000 | 30% |
| 00:04:33,000 | 00:04:35,000 | 所以他目前18公升的 |
| 00:04:35,000 | 00:04:37,000 | 實用油的供應市場 |
| 00:04:37,000 | 00:04:39,000 | 其實已經出現那個叫 |
| 00:04:39,000 | 00:04:41,000 | 這個你們應該知道 |
| 00:04:41,000 | 00:04:43,000 | 然後即便 |
| 00:04:43,000 | 00:04:45,000 | 下來有相當 |
| 00:04:45,000 | 00:04:47,000 | 這些中油的油品重新上架 |
| 00:04:47,000 | 00:04:49,000 | 我想那個整個市場的接受度 |
| 00:04:49,000 | 00:04:51,000 | 他可能還有一段距離 |
| 00:04:51,000 | 00:04:53,000 | 然後 |
| 00:04:53,000 | 00:04:55,000 | 要不要在這時間點 |
| 00:04:55,000 | 00:04:57,000 | 要防止一些其他的品牌 |
| 00:04:57,000 | 00:04:59,000 | 在油品監督上可能要再加嚴 |
| 00:04:59,000 | 00:05:01,000 | 這個 |
| 00:05:01,000 | 00:05:03,000 | 至關重要 |
| 00:05:03,000 | 00:05:05,000 | 也不僅要確保這個油品的品質 |
| 00:05:05,000 | 00:05:07,000 | 也要嚴防這不效業者 |
| 00:05:07,000 | 00:05:09,000 | 趁這次風波上下起手 |
| 00:05:09,000 | 00:05:11,000 | 這個可能要請部長 |
| 00:05:11,000 | 00:05:13,000 | 要會同這個 |
| 00:05:13,000 | 00:05:15,000 | 消保處經濟部 |
| 00:05:15,000 | 00:05:17,000 | 等相關單位 |
| 00:05:17,000 | 00:05:19,000 | 來加嚴密的管控跟監督 |
| 00:05:19,000 | 00:05:21,000 | 跟委員報告 |
| 00:05:21,000 | 00:05:23,000 | 其實在院裡面 |
| 00:05:23,000 | 00:05:25,000 | 也有這個定期的 |
| 00:05:25,000 | 00:05:27,000 | 在開這個聯繫會議 |
| 00:05:27,000 | 00:05:29,000 | 就是涉及到 |
| 00:05:29,000 | 00:05:31,000 | 市場端的穩定 |
| 00:05:31,000 | 00:05:33,000 | 因為確實像委員講的 |
| 00:05:33,000 | 00:05:35,000 | 他這個他提供的油品 |
| 00:05:35,000 | 00:05:37,000 | 其實是快到40% |
| 00:05:37,000 | 00:05:39,000 | 所以其他當然現在以其他 |
| 00:05:39,000 | 00:05:41,000 | 三個主要的煉油廠 |
| 00:05:41,000 | 00:05:43,000 | 來做供應 |
| 00:05:43,000 | 00:05:45,000 | 到目前的推估上 |
| 00:05:45,000 | 00:05:47,000 | 供應量是還夠 |
| 00:05:47,000 | 00:05:49,000 | 但是我們會繼續往前去 |
| 00:05:49,000 | 00:05:51,000 | 推估 |
| 00:05:51,000 | 00:05:53,000 | 那麼有必要的時候也會讓他去進口 |
| 00:05:53,000 | 00:05:55,000 | 一些出油進來再精煉 |
| 00:05:55,000 | 00:05:57,000 | 這樣速度會更快 |
| 00:05:57,000 | 00:05:59,000 | 我再請教部長從另外面向來討論 |
| 00:05:59,000 | 00:06:01,000 | 我們現在食安法的宣法 |
| 00:06:01,000 | 00:06:03,000 | 是會比照這個疫情指揮中心的方式 |
| 00:06:03,000 | 00:06:05,000 | 來朝鄉成立食安指揮中心 |
| 00:06:05,000 | 00:06:07,000 | 對不對 |
| 00:06:07,000 | 00:06:09,000 | 然後 |
| 00:06:09,000 | 00:06:11,000 | 我支持啦 |
| 00:06:11,000 | 00:06:13,000 | 但是我要去你的建議我剛剛特別提到 |
| 00:06:13,000 | 00:06:15,000 | 如果要比照這個疫情指揮中心 |
| 00:06:15,000 | 00:06:17,000 | 但這個成立的時機 |
| 00:06:17,000 | 00:06:19,000 | 絕對不是只有什麼 |
| 00:06:19,000 | 00:06:21,000 | 重大 |
| 00:06:21,000 | 00:06:23,000 | 只能做到什麼重大的食安事件 |
| 00:06:23,000 | 00:06:25,000 | 才去成立 |
| 00:06:25,000 | 00:06:27,000 | 應該不是這樣對不對 |
| 00:06:27,000 | 00:06:29,000 | 那依據這個傳染病 |
| 00:06:29,000 | 00:06:31,000 | 防治法17條規定 |
| 00:06:31,000 | 00:06:33,000 | 專案組成員機關 |
| 00:06:33,000 | 00:06:35,000 | 考量國內外的疫情 |
| 00:06:35,000 | 00:06:37,000 | 嚴重程度統籌 |
| 00:06:37,000 | 00:06:39,000 | 各種資源設備大大大 |
| 00:06:39,000 | 00:06:41,000 | 等必要時 |
| 00:06:41,000 | 00:06:43,000 | 報請行政院同意成立中央流行疫情指揮中心 |
| 00:06:43,000 | 00:06:45,000 | 也就是說 |
| 00:06:45,000 | 00:06:47,000 | 受審組成員機關可以考量 |
| 00:06:47,000 | 00:06:49,000 | 可以去判斷疫情的 |
| 00:06:49,000 | 00:06:51,000 | 實際狀況 |
| 00:06:51,000 | 00:06:53,000 | 但是食安跟疫情不一樣 |
| 00:06:53,000 | 00:06:55,000 | 但是 |
| 00:06:55,000 | 00:06:57,000 | 我們也是會參考國內外 |
| 00:06:57,000 | 00:06:59,000 | 的這些資訊 |
| 00:06:59,000 | 00:07:01,000 | 因為有時候 |
| 00:07:01,000 | 00:07:03,000 | 國際貿易的關係也有可能輸入 |
| 00:07:03,000 | 00:07:05,000 | 所以我們也會去參考 |
| 00:07:05,000 | 00:07:07,000 | 國內外的情形 |
| 00:07:07,000 | 00:07:09,000 | 然後跟這個 |
| 00:07:09,000 | 00:07:11,000 | 流行疫情指揮中心 |
| 00:07:11,000 | 00:07:13,000 | 有類似的概念 |
| 00:07:13,000 | 00:07:15,000 | 我只是要提醒部長跟署長 |
| 00:07:15,000 | 00:07:17,000 | 我覺得這個食安跟疫情還是不同 |
| 00:07:17,000 | 00:07:19,000 | 所以食安不能 |
| 00:07:19,000 | 00:07:21,000 | 只有受審組成員機關去做考量 |
| 00:07:21,000 | 00:07:23,000 | 判斷 |
| 00:07:23,000 | 00:07:25,000 | 他只要有食安的餘力 |
| 00:07:25,000 | 00:07:27,000 | 我剛剛特別提到不論大小 |
| 00:07:27,000 | 00:07:29,000 | 食安重大事件 |
| 00:07:29,000 | 00:07:31,000 | 不論大小我們都應該啟動 |
| 00:07:31,000 | 00:07:33,000 | 這個指揮中心進行相關 |
| 00:07:33,000 | 00:07:35,000 | 情況的一個研判 |
| 00:07:35,000 | 00:07:37,000 | 也是 |
| 00:07:37,000 | 00:07:39,000 | 跟委員說明 |
| 00:07:39,000 | 00:07:41,000 | 最主要的目的就是 |
| 00:07:41,000 | 00:07:43,000 | 他需要去整合資源 |
| 00:07:43,000 | 00:07:45,000 | 還有調度 |
| 00:07:45,000 | 00:07:47,000 | 相關的設備人力的時候 |
| 00:07:47,000 | 00:07:49,000 | 那麼 |
| 00:07:49,000 | 00:07:51,000 | 意思就是說他的規模 |
| 00:07:51,000 | 00:07:53,000 | 或者是涉及到要 |
| 00:07:53,000 | 00:07:55,000 | 跨縣市跨局處 |
| 00:07:55,000 | 00:07:57,000 | 這個時候 |
| 00:07:57,000 | 00:07:59,000 | 我們就會有這個指揮中心的設立 |
| 00:07:59,000 | 00:08:01,000 | 那有一些 |
| 00:08:01,000 | 00:08:03,000 | 他的規模是比較小 |
| 00:08:03,000 | 00:08:05,000 | 或單一 |
| 00:08:05,000 | 00:08:07,000 | 一個單獨事件 |
| 00:08:07,000 | 00:08:09,000 | 沒有擴大的情形 |
| 00:08:09,000 | 00:08:11,000 | 我們都會有風險的評估分級 |
| 00:08:11,000 | 00:08:13,000 | 來決定 |
| 00:08:13,000 | 00:08:15,000 | 那你要不要參照內政部所謂的中央 |
| 00:08:15,000 | 00:08:17,000 | 在應變中心的作用 |
| 00:08:17,000 | 00:08:19,000 | 所謂的一級開設二級開設三級開設 |
| 00:08:19,000 | 00:08:21,000 | 對 |
| 00:08:21,000 | 00:08:23,000 | 我們有個授權 |
| 00:08:23,000 | 00:08:25,000 | 一級開設 |
| 00:08:25,000 | 00:08:27,000 | 來提升指揮的量能 |
| 00:08:27,000 | 00:08:29,000 | 跟指揮官的 |
| 00:08:29,000 | 00:08:31,000 | 這樣的一個階級 |
| 00:08:31,000 | 00:08:33,000 | 應該是這樣 |
| 00:08:33,000 | 00:08:35,000 | 因為我是看這一次 |
| 00:08:35,000 | 00:08:37,000 | 我們食藥署第一時間是把 |
| 00:08:37,000 | 00:08:39,000 | 106年食品安全之一會定定的 |
| 00:08:39,000 | 00:08:41,000 | 食品違規案件 |
| 00:08:41,000 | 00:08:43,000 | 產品下架 |
| 00:08:43,000 | 00:08:45,000 | 回收封存銷毀階層之處理原則 |
| 00:08:45,000 | 00:08:47,000 | 來處理這次的 |
| 00:08:47,000 | 00:08:49,000 | 這個問題的有的 |
| 00:08:49,000 | 00:08:51,000 | 下架的一個程序 |
| 00:08:51,000 | 00:08:53,000 | 但是這106年的食品安全之一會 |
| 00:08:53,000 | 00:08:55,000 | 他認為 |
| 00:08:55,000 | 00:08:57,000 | 我們明比的有 |
| 00:08:57,000 | 00:08:59,000 | 只要下架第一層就可以 |
| 00:08:59,000 | 00:09:01,000 | 顯然大眾就覺得不可以 |
| 00:09:01,000 | 00:09:03,000 | 部長也覺得這個 |
| 00:09:03,000 | 00:09:05,000 | 做法是有問題 |
| 00:09:05,000 | 00:09:07,000 | 應該是這樣 |
| 00:09:07,000 | 00:09:09,000 | 所以才會繞著一大圈花了快一周 |
| 00:09:09,000 | 00:09:11,000 | 然後一層二層變到三層 |
| 00:09:11,000 | 00:09:13,000 | 所以我想這個 |
| 00:09:13,000 | 00:09:15,000 | 實際上就是如此 |
| 00:09:15,000 | 00:09:17,000 | 沒有什麼容許空間 |
| 00:09:17,000 | 00:09:19,000 | 有疑慮我們中央就應該當機立斷了 |
| 00:09:19,000 | 00:09:21,000 | 所以我是要求 |
| 00:09:21,000 | 00:09:23,000 | 就是說針對106當時 |
| 00:09:23,000 | 00:09:25,000 | 訂定的這個產品下架 |
| 00:09:25,000 | 00:09:27,000 | 回收封存銷毀階層之處理原則 |
| 00:09:27,000 | 00:09:29,000 | 也必須要全面修正 |
| 00:09:29,000 | 00:09:31,000 | 加嚴 |
| 00:09:31,000 | 00:09:33,000 | 同時對未來三四屆的大小 |
| 00:09:33,000 | 00:09:35,000 | 就是必須啟動食安的 |
| 00:09:35,000 | 00:09:37,000 | 指揮中心 |
| 00:09:37,000 | 00:09:39,000 | 跟委員說明當時 |
| 00:09:39,000 | 00:09:41,000 | 下架的這個原則 |
| 00:09:41,000 | 00:09:43,000 | 階層原則是把 |
| 00:09:43,000 | 00:09:45,000 | 違反 |
| 00:09:45,000 | 00:09:47,000 | 衛生安全標準的通通在 |
| 00:09:47,000 | 00:09:49,000 | 同一類就是第八類 |
| 00:09:49,000 | 00:09:51,000 | 但是這個違反衛生安全標準 |
| 00:09:51,000 | 00:09:53,000 | 的這個品項 |
| 00:09:53,000 | 00:09:55,000 | 其實還蠻多種的 |
| 00:09:55,000 | 00:09:57,000 | 所以可能還是需要 |
| 00:09:57,000 | 00:09:59,000 | 把它按照這個風險 |
| 00:09:59,000 | 00:10:01,000 | 危害的情形稍微做一點分級 |
| 00:10:01,000 | 00:10:03,000 | 然後我們會 |
| 00:10:03,000 | 00:10:05,000 | 重新檢討這一個原則 |
| 00:10:05,000 | 00:10:07,000 | 也會在這次修法 |
| 00:10:07,000 | 00:10:09,000 | 把它明確入法 |
| 00:10:09,000 | 00:10:11,000 | 從這個方向修法我們就來支持 |
| 00:10:11,000 | 00:10:13,000 | 最後一個面向 |
| 00:10:13,000 | 00:10:15,000 | 剛剛楊委員我其實聽到最後面講的 |
| 00:10:15,000 | 00:10:17,000 | 人力問題 |
| 00:10:17,000 | 00:10:19,000 | 這個人力問題真的非常嚴重 |
| 00:10:19,000 | 00:10:21,000 | 我不曉得這幾天有沒有討論到這個人力問題 |
| 00:10:21,000 | 00:10:23,000 | 你看114年FDA機場 |
| 00:10:23,000 | 00:10:25,000 | 167DN衛生局的機場 |
| 00:10:25,000 | 00:10:27,000 | 163全國共計 |
| 00:10:27,000 | 00:10:29,000 | 634年來應付全國 |
| 00:10:29,000 | 00:10:31,000 | 40萬家的食品業者 |
| 00:10:31,000 | 00:10:33,000 | 這個比例 |
| 00:10:33,000 | 00:10:35,000 | 這個比例懸殊 |
| 00:10:35,000 | 00:10:37,000 | 太大了 |
| 00:10:37,000 | 00:10:39,000 | 真的太大了那不只如此 |
| 00:10:39,000 | 00:10:41,000 | 你看 |
| 00:10:41,000 | 00:10:43,000 | 我們2300萬的這個食品安全 |
| 00:10:43,000 | 00:10:45,000 | 還有剛剛特別講 |
| 00:10:45,000 | 00:10:47,000 | 40萬家 |
| 00:10:47,000 | 00:10:49,000 | 然後630人來做這樣把關 |
| 00:10:49,000 | 00:10:51,000 | 不然就這樣合理嗎 |
| 00:10:51,000 | 00:10:53,000 | 量能夠嗎 |
| 00:10:53,000 | 00:10:55,000 | 其實跟委員說明這個事件 |
| 00:10:55,000 | 00:10:57,000 | 不只是食藥署 |
| 00:10:57,000 | 00:10:59,000 | 中央的人力大家很辛苦 |
| 00:10:59,000 | 00:11:01,000 | 其實地方第一線的 |
| 00:11:01,000 | 00:11:03,000 | 衛生人員其實他們 |
| 00:11:03,000 | 00:11:05,000 | 也很辛苦啦所以未來 |
| 00:11:05,000 | 00:11:07,000 | 我們應該是朝兩個方向來處理 |
| 00:11:07,000 | 00:11:09,000 | 一個 |
| 00:11:09,000 | 00:11:11,000 | 利用智慧化的方式 |
| 00:11:11,000 | 00:11:13,000 | 來管理不要通通都是 |
| 00:11:13,000 | 00:11:15,000 | 要跳脫傳統的這個 |
| 00:11:15,000 | 00:11:17,000 | 集查方式盡量要能夠 |
| 00:11:17,000 | 00:11:19,000 | 這個智慧化的監測 |
| 00:11:19,000 | 00:11:21,000 | 預警系統我們再來更完備 |
| 00:11:21,000 | 00:11:23,000 | 第二個分風險 |
| 00:11:23,000 | 00:11:25,000 | 等級來查這個是很重要 |
| 00:11:25,000 | 00:11:27,000 | 不然你會花了很多的力氣 |
| 00:11:27,000 | 00:11:29,000 | 但是沒有切中到 |
| 00:11:29,000 | 00:11:31,000 | 那個要點所以還會 |
| 00:11:31,000 | 00:11:33,000 | 未來會我們會按照這個風險 |
| 00:11:33,000 | 00:11:35,000 | 去處理這個 |
| 00:11:35,000 | 00:11:37,000 | 集查的項目也避免 |
| 00:11:37,000 | 00:11:39,000 | 第一線的人力過勞 |
| 00:11:39,000 | 00:11:41,000 | 當然如果能夠增加人力 |
| 00:11:41,000 | 00:11:43,000 | 我們當然也是全力來爭取 |
| 00:11:43,000 | 00:11:45,000 | 所以部長能不能朝向 |
| 00:11:45,000 | 00:11:47,000 | 跟行政院來爭取人力 |
| 00:11:47,000 | 00:11:49,000 | 增加與否我們持續 |
| 00:11:49,000 | 00:11:51,000 | 爭取其實我們過去就去年 |
| 00:11:51,000 | 00:11:53,000 | 就爭取主要是 |
| 00:11:53,000 | 00:11:55,000 | 擴充我們的邊境查驗 |
| 00:11:55,000 | 00:11:57,000 | 因為邊境查驗也很重要 |
| 00:11:57,000 | 00:11:59,000 | 從源頭就管所以我們去年 |
| 00:11:59,000 | 00:12:01,000 | 是先增加邊境 |
| 00:12:01,000 | 00:12:03,000 | 這個查驗的人力那接下來我們 |
| 00:12:03,000 | 00:12:05,000 | 也會按照我們業務的需要 |
| 00:12:05,000 | 00:12:07,000 | 來持續的爭取我看 |
| 00:12:07,000 | 00:12:09,000 | 歷史的數據 |
| 00:12:09,000 | 00:12:11,000 | 再請教部長 |
| 00:12:11,000 | 00:12:13,000 | 台北103年通過食品業者 |
| 00:12:13,000 | 00:12:15,000 | 專門職業或技術 |
| 00:12:15,000 | 00:12:17,000 | 這個證照人員設施及管理 |
| 00:12:17,000 | 00:12:19,000 | 辦法104年開始考試 |
| 00:12:19,000 | 00:12:21,000 | 那至今台灣有數千位 |
| 00:12:21,000 | 00:12:23,000 | 的食品技師 |
| 00:12:23,000 | 00:12:25,000 | 然後這群食品技師就是 |
| 00:12:25,000 | 00:12:27,000 | 食安的第一線也應該是 |
| 00:12:27,000 | 00:12:29,000 | 衛部FDA的最好助手 |
| 00:12:29,000 | 00:12:31,000 | 但這幾年衛部 |
| 00:12:31,000 | 00:12:33,000 | 應該是不重視 |
| 00:12:33,000 | 00:12:35,000 | 食品技師的情況 |
| 00:12:35,000 | 00:12:37,000 | 所以他食品技師的報考人數 |
| 00:12:37,000 | 00:12:39,000 | 是雪崩式的下跌 |
| 00:12:39,000 | 00:12:41,000 | 104年 |
| 00:12:41,000 | 00:12:43,000 | 招考的時候報考人數高達 |
| 00:12:43,000 | 00:12:45,000 | 2000多人 |
| 00:12:45,000 | 00:12:47,000 | 到去年只剩下568人報考 |
| 00:12:47,000 | 00:12:49,000 | 那不僅報考人數雪崩式的 |
| 00:12:49,000 | 00:12:51,000 | 類減已經取得證照的 |
| 00:12:51,000 | 00:12:53,000 | 最終離開這個職場的 |
| 00:12:53,000 | 00:12:55,000 | 去職業的 |
| 00:12:55,000 | 00:12:57,000 | 也不再少數了 |
| 00:12:57,000 | 00:12:59,000 | 也沒有說台灣的食品安全 |
| 00:12:59,000 | 00:13:01,000 | 最堅強的後盾的一群人 |
| 00:13:01,000 | 00:13:03,000 | 怎麼會變這樣 |
| 00:13:03,000 | 00:13:05,000 | 這一次優品事件 |
| 00:13:05,000 | 00:13:07,000 | 食品技師公會發出聲明 |
| 00:13:07,000 | 00:13:09,000 | 他們提出具體建議 |
| 00:13:09,000 | 00:13:11,000 | 我不想部長有掌握嗎 |
| 00:13:11,000 | 00:13:13,000 | 我們都有在注意 |
| 00:13:13,000 | 00:13:15,000 | 但是也謝謝委員提醒 |
| 00:13:15,000 | 00:13:17,000 | 這是我們當然在 |
| 00:13:17,000 | 00:13:19,000 | 傳統的公務人力上 |
| 00:13:19,000 | 00:13:21,000 | 會很吃緊 |
| 00:13:21,000 | 00:13:23,000 | 但是這些專業人員包含 |
| 00:13:23,000 | 00:13:25,000 | 食品技師或者是公衛師 |
| 00:13:25,000 | 00:13:27,000 | 這些那麼也都是 |
| 00:13:27,000 | 00:13:29,000 | 經過一定的教育 |
| 00:13:29,000 | 00:13:31,000 | 跟這個考核 |
| 00:13:31,000 | 00:13:33,000 | 那麼才有辦法取得這些資格的 |
| 00:13:33,000 | 00:13:35,000 | 我們來研議看看 |
| 00:13:35,000 | 00:13:37,000 | 讓他能夠導入來擴充 |
| 00:13:37,000 | 00:13:39,000 | 我們這些所需要的 |
| 00:13:39,000 | 00:13:41,000 | 稽查人力或者食安的人力 |
| 00:13:41,000 | 00:13:43,000 | 他們公會是這樣建立 |
| 00:13:43,000 | 00:13:45,000 | 建樹成立食品技術的 |
| 00:13:45,000 | 00:13:47,000 | 驗證制度 |
| 00:13:47,000 | 00:13:49,000 | 那內部有食品技師 |
| 00:13:49,000 | 00:13:51,000 | 也要有權責 |
| 00:13:51,000 | 00:13:53,000 | 同時也要搭配外部的 |
| 00:13:53,000 | 00:13:55,000 | 食品技師的驗證 |
| 00:13:55,000 | 00:13:57,000 | 最後再加上政府任用的 |
| 00:13:57,000 | 00:13:59,000 | 公職的食品技師 |
| 00:13:59,000 | 00:14:01,000 | 形成一個三方共同監督的制度 |
| 00:14:01,000 | 00:14:03,000 | 才能真正的落實 |
| 00:14:03,000 | 00:14:05,000 | 這個食安網 |
| 00:14:05,000 | 00:14:07,000 | 所以如果今天我們食安法要修法 |
| 00:14:07,000 | 00:14:09,000 | 是不是也包含這個 |
| 00:14:09,000 | 00:14:11,000 | 所謂第三方檢驗 |
| 00:14:11,000 | 00:14:13,000 | 是不是可以更 |
| 00:14:13,000 | 00:14:15,000 | 可以來接有 |
| 00:14:15,000 | 00:14:17,000 | 自詢食品技師 |
| 00:14:17,000 | 00:14:19,000 | 來做更勤力的合作 |
| 00:14:19,000 | 00:14:21,000 | 好 跟委員說明 |
| 00:14:21,000 | 00:14:23,000 | 其實我們現在一定規模 |
| 00:14:23,000 | 00:14:25,000 | 以上的食品廠其實是 |
| 00:14:25,000 | 00:14:27,000 | 有要求要有食品技師 |
| 00:14:27,000 | 00:14:29,000 | 只是還沒有做到 |
| 00:14:29,000 | 00:14:31,000 | 委員剛剛提的有點像 |
| 00:14:31,000 | 00:14:33,000 | 獨立簽證的概念 |
| 00:14:33,000 | 00:14:35,000 | 他要獨立負責簽證 |
| 00:14:35,000 | 00:14:37,000 | 那 |
| 00:14:37,000 | 00:14:39,000 | 這個 |
| 00:14:39,000 | 00:14:41,000 | 跟他的業主之間的關係 |
| 00:14:41,000 | 00:14:43,000 | 因為畢竟現在是受聘 |
| 00:14:43,000 | 00:14:45,000 | 那如何 |
| 00:14:45,000 | 00:14:47,000 | 讓我們來研究他 |
| 00:14:47,000 | 00:14:49,000 | 入法要求一定要聘 |
| 00:14:49,000 | 00:14:51,000 | 但是他是獨立職業住廠 |
| 00:14:51,000 | 00:14:53,000 | 用這個設計來 |
| 00:14:53,000 | 00:14:55,000 | 我們來 |
| 00:14:55,000 | 00:14:57,000 | 這個研究一下看看未來是 |
| 00:14:57,000 | 00:14:59,000 | 我的想法比較是朝向第三方的 |
| 00:14:59,000 | 00:15:01,000 | 這個制度 |
| 00:15:01,000 | 00:15:03,000 | 第三方驗證 |
| 00:15:03,000 | 00:15:05,000 | 那第三方驗證現在也是 |
| 00:15:05,000 | 00:15:07,000 | 有這個設計 |
| 00:15:07,000 | 00:15:09,000 | 只是把第三方驗證單位 |
| 00:15:09,000 | 00:15:11,000 | 納入 |
| 00:15:11,000 | 00:15:13,000 | 一定要有 |
| 00:15:13,000 | 00:15:15,000 | 食品技師去執行 |
| 00:15:15,000 | 00:15:17,000 | 他的第三方驗證 |
| 00:15:17,000 | 00:15:19,000 | 因為其實這個他的 |
| 00:15:19,000 | 00:15:21,000 | 專業在所以現在雖然有第三方 |
| 00:15:21,000 | 00:15:23,000 | 驗證單位去驗證他 |
| 00:15:23,000 | 00:15:25,000 | 應該多數也會找食品醫師來做 |
| 00:15:25,000 | 00:15:27,000 | 只是我們現在沒有強制 |
| 00:15:27,000 | 00:15:29,000 | 那未來我們來看看 |
| 00:15:29,000 | 00:15:31,000 | 在那個第三方驗證 |
| 00:15:31,000 | 00:15:33,000 | 因為我們現在修法是第三方驗證 |
| 00:15:33,000 | 00:15:35,000 | 的單位也要經過主管機關 |
| 00:15:35,000 | 00:15:37,000 | 的認證才能去 |
| 00:15:37,000 | 00:15:39,000 | 做驗證 |
| 00:15:39,000 | 00:15:41,000 | 然後我們在那個認證的 |
| 00:15:41,000 | 00:15:43,000 | 辦法上面去把食品技師 |
| 00:15:43,000 | 00:15:45,000 | 或者是公公公衛師 |
| 00:15:45,000 | 00:15:47,000 | 受一定的這個 |
| 00:15:47,000 | 00:15:49,000 | 食品相關訓練 |
| 00:15:49,000 | 00:15:51,000 | 讓他強制的進入這個 |
| 00:15:51,000 | 00:15:53,000 | 辦法認證裡面 |
| 00:15:53,000 | 00:15:55,000 | 因為我 |
| 00:15:55,000 | 00:15:57,000 | 我是覺得這第三方的一個檢驗 |
| 00:15:57,000 | 00:15:59,000 | 的制度基本上如果可以確立 |
| 00:15:59,000 | 00:16:01,000 | 而且可以去落實 |
| 00:16:01,000 | 00:16:03,000 | 我覺得對台灣的 |
| 00:16:03,000 | 00:16:05,000 | 食品安全會大大提升 |
| 00:16:05,000 | 00:16:07,000 | 因為所謂的 |
| 00:16:07,000 | 00:16:09,000 | 第三方的這樣的一個 |
| 00:16:09,000 | 00:16:11,000 | 一個包含 |
| 00:16:11,000 | 00:16:13,000 | 在日本有很多的 |
| 00:16:13,000 | 00:16:15,000 | 像社福的機構基本上 |
| 00:16:15,000 | 00:16:17,000 | 他們是第三方評價 |
| 00:16:17,000 | 00:16:19,000 | 然後如果在食品安全部可以有 |
| 00:16:19,000 | 00:16:21,000 | 第三方的這樣一個檢驗的制度 |
| 00:16:21,000 | 00:16:23,000 | 我覺得對台灣整體而言 |
| 00:16:23,000 | 00:16:25,000 | 的食品安全 |
| 00:16:25,000 | 00:16:27,000 | 應該會 |
| 00:16:27,000 | 00:16:29,000 | 有顯著的更好的這樣的一個 |
| 00:16:29,000 | 00:16:31,000 | 效益存在 |
| 00:16:31,000 | 00:16:33,000 | 能不能朝這個方向來思考 |
| 00:16:33,000 | 00:16:35,000 | 這個委員給我們一個很好的方向 |
| 00:16:35,000 | 00:16:37,000 | 因為我們現在正在強化第三方 |
| 00:16:37,000 | 00:16:39,000 | 驗證他的這個 |
| 00:16:39,000 | 00:16:41,000 | 強度跟授權 |
| 00:16:41,000 | 00:16:43,000 | 那把這個專業 |
| 00:16:43,000 | 00:16:45,000 | 人員把他導入 |
| 00:16:45,000 | 00:16:47,000 | 強制這個要去做這個 |
| 00:16:47,000 | 00:16:49,000 | 驗證的認證 |
| 00:16:49,000 | 00:16:51,000 | 第三方認證的單位需要有 |
| 00:16:51,000 | 00:16:53,000 | 這樣的人力專業人力 |
| 00:16:53,000 | 00:16:55,000 | 我們可以來把他納入這個辦法裡面 |
| 00:16:55,000 | 00:16:57,000 | 來處理 |