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張智倫 @
| Start Time | End Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00:00,000 | 00:00:10,640 | 好 謝謝主席 各位委員 各位官員好 |
| 00:00:10,640 | 00:00:13,640 | 有請衛福部時部長 時藥署江署長 |
| 00:00:13,640 | 00:00:15,140 | 有請時部長 江署長 |
| 00:00:15,140 | 00:00:18,140 | 好 委員好 |
| 00:00:18,140 | 00:00:19,140 | 部長好 署長好 |
| 00:00:19,140 | 00:00:22,440 | 針對這次巴西黃豆毒油事件 |
| 00:00:22,440 | 00:00:24,240 | 想要請教部長 |
| 00:00:24,240 | 00:00:28,240 | 到底這次的中原油脂的癌油事件 |
| 00:00:28,240 | 00:00:31,240 | 它的問題是出在巴西黃豆 |
| 00:00:31,240 | 00:00:32,739 | 還是出在製程的問題 |
| 00:00:32,739 | 00:00:36,739 | 從它的 我們檢驗了它這麼多批 |
| 00:00:36,739 | 00:00:39,239 | 那麼去看到 第一個是 |
| 00:00:39,239 | 00:00:42,239 | 如果是美國做的 |
| 00:00:42,239 | 00:00:44,239 | 大概都沒有問題符合 |
| 00:00:44,239 | 00:00:47,739 | 那麼巴西豆做的也不是每一批都有問題 |
| 00:00:47,739 | 00:00:49,739 | 因為剛剛檢驗出來一共是7批 |
| 00:00:49,739 | 00:00:54,739 | 所以部長說 當然 它的原料會影響它的品質 |
| 00:00:54,739 | 00:00:56,739 | 確實的 |
| 00:00:56,740 | 00:00:59,240 | 那只有豆的問題嗎 製程有沒有問題 |
| 00:00:59,240 | 00:01:02,240 | 當然它的製程 在我們查核的過程 |
| 00:01:02,240 | 00:01:04,240 | 追查它的過程當中 |
| 00:01:04,240 | 00:01:07,240 | 也發現它幾個節點 重要的節點 |
| 00:01:07,240 | 00:01:09,240 | 也沒有完全符合標準 |
| 00:01:09,240 | 00:01:11,740 | 所以這個製程跟這個原料 |
| 00:01:11,740 | 00:01:14,240 | 這兩個都是有它的關聯性 |
| 00:01:14,240 | 00:01:15,740 | 好 我要謝謝部長的回應 |
| 00:01:15,740 | 00:01:18,240 | 所以部長剛剛提到一個非常重要的問題 |
| 00:01:18,240 | 00:01:20,740 | 就是巴西黃豆進口出了問題 |
| 00:01:20,740 | 00:01:25,740 | 這不僅讓我想到 當時巴西雞蛋進口有出了問題 |
| 00:01:25,740 | 00:01:30,240 | 那個瑞福部當時有調查一個最新的報告 |
| 00:01:30,240 | 00:01:34,740 | 真的有指從去年幾四日將巴西黃豆的原料的熱損率 |
| 00:01:34,740 | 00:01:40,740 | 的允收標準從0.5%大幅放寬10%到5% |
| 00:01:40,740 | 00:01:43,240 | 那我想要請教這個部長 |
| 00:01:43,240 | 00:01:47,740 | 針對這樣子真的有指大幅調升10倍 |
| 00:01:47,740 | 00:01:49,740 | 進這種有問題的黃豆進來 |
| 00:01:49,740 | 00:01:52,740 | 請問瑞福部食藥署你們的動作是什麼 |
| 00:01:52,740 | 00:01:57,740 | 跟委員說明並不是這個叫做有問題的黃豆 |
| 00:01:57,740 | 00:02:00,740 | 就是說它的品質上是比較差的 |
| 00:02:00,740 | 00:02:02,240 | 品質比較差還沒有問題 |
| 00:02:02,240 | 00:02:05,240 | 它並不是它在我們的這個檢驗 |
| 00:02:05,240 | 00:02:06,740 | 邊境檢驗的部分 |
| 00:02:06,740 | 00:02:08,240 | 你們邊境檢驗做了什麼 |
| 00:02:08,240 | 00:02:10,240 | 我們邊境檢驗主要是真的 |
| 00:02:10,240 | 00:02:13,740 | 你們有沒有發現工人有指有這樣子提升18% |
| 00:02:13,740 | 00:02:15,740 | 18%的問題豆進來 |
| 00:02:15,740 | 00:02:17,240 | 它有儲存的關係 |
| 00:02:17,240 | 00:02:20,740 | 它並不是從邊境就是有問題進來 |
| 00:02:20,740 | 00:02:21,240 | 並不是這樣 |
| 00:02:21,240 | 00:02:25,240 | 是在它的儲存跟處理的過程當中 |
| 00:02:25,240 | 00:02:28,240 | 它的品質要做有之前的 |
| 00:02:28,240 | 00:02:30,240 | 那請教部長你這樣講你對邊境 |
| 00:02:30,240 | 00:02:32,740 | 不管是關務署跟食藥署 |
| 00:02:32,740 | 00:02:35,240 | 你們針對邊境檢驗這些問題黃豆 |
| 00:02:35,240 | 00:02:36,240 | 你們如何檢驗 |
| 00:02:36,240 | 00:02:37,240 | 你們有沒有檢驗 |
| 00:02:37,240 | 00:02:41,240 | 有我們在邊境的查驗主要是在 |
| 00:02:41,240 | 00:02:44,240 | 農藥重心署的殘留這些都要驗 |
| 00:02:44,240 | 00:02:46,240 | 這個是在邊境的 |
| 00:02:46,240 | 00:02:47,240 | 那你這邊它熱損率的部分 |
| 00:02:47,240 | 00:02:49,240 | 熱損率是它進來之後 |
| 00:02:49,240 | 00:02:52,240 | 熱損率是它加工的過程當中產生的 |
| 00:02:52,240 | 00:02:54,240 | 並不是原料產生的 |
| 00:02:54,240 | 00:02:57,240 | 這個原料要進入到煉油的過程 |
| 00:02:57,240 | 00:02:59,240 | 它先要去做處理 |
| 00:02:59,240 | 00:03:03,240 | 所以處理的過程當中會產生熱損率的問題 |
| 00:03:03,240 | 00:03:05,240 | 好 部長請你要回答我的問題 |
| 00:03:05,240 | 00:03:08,240 | 你針對現在這些我問題的巴西黃豆 |
| 00:03:08,240 | 00:03:11,240 | 你的邊境檢驗是如何檢驗 |
| 00:03:11,240 | 00:03:14,240 | 邊境的檢驗就是按照我們現在的重金屬 |
| 00:03:14,240 | 00:03:17,240 | 剛剛委員特別提到就是這一批的巴西黃豆 |
| 00:03:17,240 | 00:03:20,240 | 在運製過程中就產生了問題 |
| 00:03:20,240 | 00:03:22,240 | 所以邊境檢驗非常的重要 |
| 00:03:22,240 | 00:03:24,240 | 你不認為嗎 |
| 00:03:24,240 | 00:03:26,240 | 邊境有邊境檢驗要查的項目 |
| 00:03:26,240 | 00:03:29,240 | 但是我剛剛提到這個所謂的熱損粒粒 |
| 00:03:29,240 | 00:03:34,240 | 是在它的加工原料準備的過程當中產生的 |
| 00:03:34,240 | 00:03:36,240 | 並不是在邊境產生的 |
| 00:03:36,240 | 00:03:38,240 | 所以你認為邊境檢驗上沒有問題嗎 |
| 00:03:38,240 | 00:03:39,240 | 邊境不會測這個 |
| 00:03:39,240 | 00:03:44,240 | 這個是它在後面烘造的過程當中造成的 |
| 00:03:44,240 | 00:03:46,240 | 並不是在邊境 |
| 00:03:46,240 | 00:03:49,240 | 所以部長你能保證這一批巴西的黃豆 |
| 00:03:49,240 | 00:03:52,240 | 在邊境運進來的過程中到我們的港口檢驗沒有問題嗎 |
| 00:03:52,240 | 00:03:55,240 | 在我們的邊境主要是驗 |
| 00:03:55,240 | 00:03:57,240 | 因為這個我請問一下部長你能確定嗎 |
| 00:03:57,240 | 00:03:59,240 | 你現在能跟國人確定嗎 |
| 00:03:59,240 | 00:04:01,240 | 我們在邊境查的就是 |
| 00:04:01,240 | 00:04:05,240 | 黃麴毒素重金屬農藥殘留 |
| 00:04:05,240 | 00:04:06,240 | 這個是在我們邊境 |
| 00:04:06,240 | 00:04:10,240 | 而這個本棉筆是在後端加工的時候產生 |
| 00:04:10,240 | 00:04:12,240 | 所以它我講的原料是指說 |
| 00:04:12,240 | 00:04:16,240 | 它在加工的過程當中一開始是黃豆的處理過程 |
| 00:04:16,240 | 00:04:20,240 | 那另外下一端才是煉油的過程 |
| 00:04:20,240 | 00:04:22,240 | 講的是不是在邊境 |
| 00:04:22,240 | 00:04:24,240 | 這個跟邊境沒有關係 |
| 00:04:24,240 | 00:04:26,240 | 是在加工處理這個原料上 |
| 00:04:26,240 | 00:04:27,240 | 部長我非常清楚啊 |
| 00:04:27,240 | 00:04:31,240 | 你因為就是要把它全部推給廠商的責任 |
| 00:04:31,240 | 00:04:32,240 | 可是本席要在這邊 |
| 00:04:32,240 | 00:04:35,240 | 要跟部長嚴重的說 |
| 00:04:35,240 | 00:04:38,240 | 其實當時你們邊境這批黃豆進來 |
| 00:04:38,240 | 00:04:40,240 | 本席認為就已經產生問題了 |
| 00:04:40,240 | 00:04:42,240 | 跟他說有什麼你有沒有講的 |
| 00:04:42,240 | 00:04:44,240 | 這個熱水率當然有問題 |
| 00:04:44,240 | 00:04:46,240 | 可是他是一整批整個的問題啊 |
| 00:04:46,240 | 00:04:49,240 | 所以要拜託部長你們邊境檢疫是不是出了問題 |
| 00:04:49,240 | 00:04:52,240 | 請會後你們把你們邊境檢疫的資料 |
| 00:04:52,240 | 00:04:53,240 | 拿給本席看 |
| 00:04:53,240 | 00:04:56,240 | 這個邊境檢疫的結果會提供給委員 |
| 00:04:56,240 | 00:04:57,240 | 本席也要特別講啊 |
| 00:04:57,240 | 00:04:59,240 | 如果邊境檢疫的時候 |
| 00:04:59,240 | 00:05:02,240 | 如果又有這個到底是從哪邊進口 |
| 00:05:02,240 | 00:05:04,240 | 是不是有綠油有這些問題啊 |
| 00:05:04,240 | 00:05:07,240 | 本席要特別請署長特別要來看 |
| 00:05:07,240 | 00:05:10,240 | 是不是這樣子類似我們87雞蛋相關的問題啊 |
| 00:05:10,240 | 00:05:13,240 | 那第二個我要請教署長的是 |
| 00:05:13,240 | 00:05:14,240 | 部長的是喔 |
| 00:05:14,240 | 00:05:16,240 | 到底人民現在吃下多少的毒油 |
| 00:05:16,240 | 00:05:18,240 | 請問你們有統計數量嗎 |
| 00:05:18,240 | 00:05:21,240 | 這個數量上我們有回收的數量公佈 |
| 00:05:21,240 | 00:05:23,240 | 在我們的網站上面 |
| 00:05:23,240 | 00:05:24,240 | 來我交給部長 |
| 00:05:24,240 | 00:05:26,240 | 現在是不是7批 |
| 00:05:26,240 | 00:05:28,240 | 總共有三艘船 |
| 00:05:28,240 | 00:05:30,240 | 就共6批共進了18批的 |
| 00:05:30,240 | 00:05:32,240 | 各進了18批的黃豆 |
| 00:05:32,240 | 00:05:34,240 | 總共生產了30批的油 |
| 00:05:34,240 | 00:05:36,240 | 這個油 |
| 00:05:36,240 | 00:05:38,240 | 裡面有7批是潤提油 |
| 00:05:38,240 | 00:05:43,240 | 所以7批潤提油總共8478.88公噸 |
| 00:05:43,240 | 00:05:46,240 | 預計回收是2771.2公噸 |
| 00:05:46,240 | 00:05:50,240 | 剩下的5707.68公噸去了哪裡 |
| 00:05:50,240 | 00:05:53,240 | 是不是就是被人民吃下毒的問題喔 |
| 00:05:54,240 | 00:05:59,240 | 跟委員說明您提的是那個黃豆的噸數嗎 |
| 00:05:59,240 | 00:06:00,240 | 是黃豆 |
| 00:06:00,240 | 00:06:01,240 | 油的噸數 |
| 00:06:01,240 | 00:06:04,240 | 問題油7批總共是8478.88噸對吧 |
| 00:06:04,240 | 00:06:05,240 | 8 |
| 00:06:05,240 | 00:06:07,240 | 那個我們對一下數字 |
| 00:06:07,240 | 00:06:08,240 | 精確一點喔 |
| 00:06:08,240 | 00:06:10,240 | 就是現在連1批的話喔 |
| 00:06:10,240 | 00:06:11,240 | 人民到底吃下多少問題油都不知道嗎 |
| 00:06:11,240 | 00:06:13,240 | 7批我們現在是 |
| 00:06:13,240 | 00:06:14,240 | 呃 |
| 00:06:14,240 | 00:06:16,240 | 這個回收的話是 |
| 00:06:16,240 | 00:06:17,240 | 8478.88噸 |
| 00:06:17,240 | 00:06:19,240 | 2794.1噸 |
| 00:06:19,240 | 00:06:21,240 | 對這個回收了嘛 |
| 00:06:21,240 | 00:06:24,240 | 那你預計問題油7批下架的 |
| 00:06:24,240 | 00:06:29,240 | 你7批潤提油總共只回收了8000多公噸 |
| 00:06:29,240 | 00:06:31,240 | 總共只有回收2700多公噸 |
| 00:06:31,240 | 00:06:33,240 | 那剩下5700多公噸去了哪裡 |
| 00:06:33,240 | 00:06:36,240 | 不是就是吃下去的問題油嗎 |
| 00:06:36,240 | 00:06:40,240 | 我們是大概2萬多噸的 |
| 00:06:40,240 | 00:06:42,240 | 2萬多噸是一氧性下架嘛 |
| 00:06:42,240 | 00:06:46,240 | 對就是下架的大概7批啦 |
| 00:06:46,240 | 00:06:48,240 | 加到7批的問題油是幾公噸 |
| 00:06:48,240 | 00:06:49,240 | 2. |
| 00:06:49,240 | 00:06:53,240 | 是8478噸對吧 |
| 00:06:53,240 | 00:06:55,240 | 你那個再確認一下數字 |
| 00:06:55,240 | 00:06:56,240 | 確認一下數字 |
| 00:06:56,240 | 00:06:57,240 | 委員這個數字是正確的 |
| 00:06:57,240 | 00:06:59,240 | 所以委員確定的現在就是 |
| 00:06:59,240 | 00:07:02,240 | 5707.68噸的問題油不見了嘛 |
| 00:07:02,240 | 00:07:04,240 | 被人民吃下肚了嘛對不對 |
| 00:07:04,240 | 00:07:07,240 | 這個完全的起因就是因為 |
| 00:07:07,240 | 00:07:09,240 | 食藥署長是比較清楚 |
| 00:07:09,240 | 00:07:12,240 | 所以他延後通報才讓我們沒有機會去 |
| 00:07:12,240 | 00:07:13,240 | 誒部長 |
| 00:07:13,240 | 00:07:14,240 | 去把它回收啊 |
| 00:07:14,240 | 00:07:15,240 | 你不敢面對問題嗎 |
| 00:07:15,240 | 00:07:17,240 | 到底多吃下去多有問題油 |
| 00:07:17,240 | 00:07:18,240 | 我都已經幫你算出來了 |
| 00:07:18,240 | 00:07:21,240 | 這個油就是因為它隱匿延遲的通報 |
| 00:07:21,240 | 00:07:22,240 | 然後才造成我們 |
| 00:07:22,240 | 00:07:24,240 | 部長你知道我們人民吃下了 |
| 00:07:24,240 | 00:07:25,240 | 5000多噸的問題油 |
| 00:07:25,240 | 00:07:27,240 | 平均一個人一個家庭一家四口 |
| 00:07:27,240 | 00:07:28,240 | 吃下多少問題油嗎 |
| 00:07:28,240 | 00:07:30,240 | 就吃下了大部分一罐 |
| 00:07:30,240 | 00:07:32,240 | 一小罐一公升的問題油啊 |
| 00:07:32,240 | 00:07:34,240 | 部長這個數字喔 |
| 00:07:34,240 | 00:07:37,240 | 我很感謝你們把詳細資料提供給我 |
| 00:07:37,240 | 00:07:38,240 | 這樣我可以算得出來啊 |
| 00:07:38,240 | 00:07:39,240 | 所以部長跟市長 |
| 00:07:39,240 | 00:07:41,240 | 來 部長有什麼要補充 |
| 00:07:41,240 | 00:07:42,240 | 剛才提的數字裡面喔 |
| 00:07:42,240 | 00:07:45,240 | 油其實說炸的油之後 |
| 00:07:45,240 | 00:07:46,240 | 大部分的油炸完之後 |
| 00:07:46,240 | 00:07:49,240 | 其實是要去丟棄的 |
| 00:07:49,240 | 00:07:50,240 | 因為已經炸完之後 |
| 00:07:50,240 | 00:07:51,240 | 它就會替換油 |
| 00:07:51,240 | 00:07:53,240 | 並不是都是喝下去的 |
| 00:07:53,240 | 00:07:54,240 | 所以它其實在運用的 |
| 00:07:54,240 | 00:07:56,240 | 那我現在所有用的油是 |
| 00:07:56,240 | 00:07:58,240 | 5700多噸 |
| 00:07:58,240 | 00:07:59,240 | 原本吃下去多少噸嘛 |
| 00:07:59,240 | 00:08:01,240 | 你可以回答嗎 |
| 00:08:02,240 | 00:08:03,240 | 這個每個製程 |
| 00:08:03,240 | 00:08:05,240 | 每個製程有的是回收 |
| 00:08:05,240 | 00:08:07,240 | 其實它的一定的比例 |
| 00:08:07,240 | 00:08:08,240 | 這個是在產業上面的使用 |
| 00:08:08,240 | 00:08:10,240 | 會有些不一樣的地方 |
| 00:08:10,240 | 00:08:11,240 | 所有做出來的問題 |
| 00:08:11,240 | 00:08:13,240 | 我算出來的數字就是這個明確 |
| 00:08:13,240 | 00:08:15,240 | 再來我想要請教部長跟署長的 |
| 00:08:15,240 | 00:08:17,240 | 現在人民還很擔心啊 |
| 00:08:17,240 | 00:08:19,240 | 這些有問題的巴西黃豆 |
| 00:08:19,240 | 00:08:22,240 | 製造完以後會產生大量的副產品 |
| 00:08:22,240 | 00:08:25,240 | 我俗稱它叫豆渣跟豆粿 |
| 00:08:25,240 | 00:08:27,240 | 那這些豆渣跟豆粿 |
| 00:08:27,240 | 00:08:29,240 | 其實你們如何處理 |
| 00:08:29,240 | 00:08:31,240 | 在很多新聞上也都提說 |
| 00:08:31,240 | 00:08:33,240 | 它可能製成豆漿 |
| 00:08:33,240 | 00:08:35,240 | 剛剛有問人說製成豆皮 |
| 00:08:35,240 | 00:08:36,240 | 不會不會 |
| 00:08:36,240 | 00:08:38,240 | 或者是有沒有做成飼料 |
| 00:08:38,240 | 00:08:39,240 | 不會不會 |
| 00:08:39,240 | 00:08:40,240 | 那問題有的這些材料 |
| 00:08:40,240 | 00:08:41,240 | 到哪裡去了 |
| 00:08:42,240 | 00:08:45,240 | 這一批貨就是進入到這個廠 |
| 00:08:45,240 | 00:08:46,240 | 我說有知道 |
| 00:08:46,240 | 00:08:49,240 | 剩下來的副產品豆渣跟豆粿去哪裡了 |
| 00:08:50,240 | 00:08:52,240 | 那個不會進入 |
| 00:08:52,240 | 00:08:54,240 | 那個就是那個 |
| 00:08:54,240 | 00:08:55,240 | 過去就是做飼料啊 |
| 00:08:55,240 | 00:08:56,240 | 那做飼料 |
| 00:08:56,240 | 00:08:58,240 | 這些不是有毒的飼料嗎 |
| 00:08:58,240 | 00:09:00,240 | 不會進入到人體的 |
| 00:09:00,240 | 00:09:02,240 | 那你是不是說做成飼料就可以吃 |
| 00:09:02,240 | 00:09:03,240 | 做成 |
| 00:09:03,240 | 00:09:05,240 | 你現在一直說做成飼料 |
| 00:09:05,240 | 00:09:07,240 | 有沒有做後續去檢查 |
| 00:09:07,240 | 00:09:08,240 | 這些有問題的飼料去哪裡了 |
| 00:09:08,240 | 00:09:10,240 | 養豬的 |
| 00:09:10,240 | 00:09:11,240 | 飼料是養豬的 |
| 00:09:14,240 | 00:09:15,240 | 有沒有人可以回答這個問題 |
| 00:09:15,240 | 00:09:16,240 | 沒有人可以回答這個問題嘛 |
| 00:09:18,240 | 00:09:19,240 | 所以我必須要講 |
| 00:09:19,240 | 00:09:20,240 | 這些問題 |
| 00:09:20,240 | 00:09:23,240 | 問題造成有這些巴西黃豆的副產品 |
| 00:09:23,240 | 00:09:25,240 | 這些飼料 |
| 00:09:26,240 | 00:09:27,240 | 我個人認為 |
| 00:09:27,240 | 00:09:29,240 | 這些飼料也是你們現在去查 |
| 00:09:29,240 | 00:09:30,240 | 毒油的一個來源之一 |
| 00:09:30,240 | 00:09:31,240 | 所以你們應該可以驗得出來 |
| 00:09:31,240 | 00:09:33,240 | 這個飼料應該有存有毒物 |
| 00:09:33,240 | 00:09:34,240 | 你們可以反推 |
| 00:09:34,240 | 00:09:36,240 | 說這個製成如果沒有問題的話 |
| 00:09:36,240 | 00:09:37,240 | 是黃豆的問題 |
| 00:09:37,240 | 00:09:39,240 | 所以你們現在的這些 |
| 00:09:40,240 | 00:09:41,240 | 副產品這些 |
| 00:09:42,240 | 00:09:43,240 | 豆渣做成的 |
| 00:09:44,240 | 00:09:45,240 | 這個飼料 |
| 00:09:45,240 | 00:09:46,240 | 其實你們完全沒有去查驗 |
| 00:09:46,240 | 00:09:47,240 | 所以這點我要跟 |
| 00:09:47,240 | 00:09:48,240 | 部長 |
| 00:09:48,240 | 00:09:49,240 | 報告說 |
| 00:09:49,240 | 00:09:51,240 | 這個相當萬有用的問題 |
| 00:09:51,240 | 00:09:52,240 | 你們要趕快去 |
| 00:09:52,240 | 00:09:54,240 | 這個BAP是存在在油裡面 |
| 00:09:54,240 | 00:09:55,240 | 所以你說 |
| 00:09:55,240 | 00:09:57,240 | 完全沒有毒嗎 |
| 00:09:57,240 | 00:09:58,240 | 它已經沒有油 |
| 00:09:58,240 | 00:10:00,240 | 就沒有辦法去驗 |
| 00:10:00,240 | 00:10:01,240 | 完全沒有毒 |
| 00:10:01,240 | 00:10:03,240 | 所以毒油造成的副產品沒有毒 |
| 00:10:03,240 | 00:10:04,240 | 它沒有辦法驗 |
| 00:10:04,240 | 00:10:05,240 | 沒有辦法驗 |
| 00:10:05,240 | 00:10:06,240 | 可是可以給動物吃 |
| 00:10:06,240 | 00:10:07,240 | 好 |
| 00:10:07,240 | 00:10:08,240 | 謝謝那我再請教 |
| 00:10:08,240 | 00:10:09,240 | 第二個問題 |
| 00:10:09,240 | 00:10:10,240 | 所以我要跟 |
| 00:10:10,240 | 00:10:11,240 | 我要跟 |
| 00:10:11,240 | 00:10:12,240 | 署長跟 |
| 00:10:12,240 | 00:10:13,240 | 部長講 |
| 00:10:13,240 | 00:10:14,240 | 我認為 |
| 00:10:14,240 | 00:10:15,240 | 這次的毒油事件 |
| 00:10:15,240 | 00:10:16,240 | 千萬 |
| 00:10:16,240 | 00:10:17,240 | 你們上面的源頭 |
| 00:10:17,240 | 00:10:19,240 | 不管從進口 |
| 00:10:19,240 | 00:10:21,240 | 從這批有問題的巴西豆 |
| 00:10:21,240 | 00:10:22,240 | 你們都不敢說 |
| 00:10:22,240 | 00:10:23,240 | 有沒有問題 |
| 00:10:23,240 | 00:10:24,240 | 而且還放任 |
| 00:10:24,240 | 00:10:25,240 | 這個業者 |
| 00:10:25,240 | 00:10:26,240 | 把他的這些什麼潤染率 |
| 00:10:26,240 | 00:10:27,240 | 上升百分之十 |
| 00:10:27,240 | 00:10:29,240 | 你們到最近才說這樣的話 |
| 00:10:29,240 | 00:10:31,240 | 我本席覺得非常不能接受 |
| 00:10:31,240 | 00:10:34,240 | 我也認為這不應該推給地方政府 |
| 00:10:34,240 | 00:10:35,240 | 我舉例 |
| 00:10:35,240 | 00:10:37,240 | 像國營事業台糖 |
| 00:10:37,240 | 00:10:39,240 | 它其實引誘跟中聯食品 |
| 00:10:39,240 | 00:10:40,240 | 進到問題 |
| 00:10:40,240 | 00:10:42,240 | 有問題的問題油品 |
| 00:10:42,240 | 00:10:43,240 | 我想請教一下 |
| 00:10:43,240 | 00:10:45,240 | 台糖也查不出來 |
| 00:10:45,240 | 00:10:46,240 | 台糖為什麼也沒有查出來 |
| 00:10:46,240 | 00:10:47,240 | 它收到這批 |
| 00:10:47,240 | 00:10:49,240 | 中聯油脂的油 |
| 00:10:49,240 | 00:10:50,240 | 是問題油 |
| 00:10:50,240 | 00:10:51,240 | 所以我的意思是說 |
| 00:10:51,240 | 00:10:52,240 | 你上游 |
| 00:10:52,240 | 00:10:53,240 | 你的水庫 |
| 00:10:53,240 | 00:10:55,240 | 就已經有毒了 |
| 00:10:55,240 | 00:10:56,240 | 你一直去 |
| 00:10:56,240 | 00:10:58,240 | 家家戶戶的百姓問說 |
| 00:10:58,240 | 00:11:01,240 | 你家裡有沒有毒油或毒水 |
| 00:11:01,240 | 00:11:02,240 | 這樣本席認為 |
| 00:11:02,240 | 00:11:03,240 | 是非常不合理的 |
| 00:11:03,240 | 00:11:04,240 | 那我請教一下 |
| 00:11:04,240 | 00:11:05,240 | 請問 |
| 00:11:05,240 | 00:11:06,240 | 部長跟署長 |
| 00:11:06,240 | 00:11:07,240 | 你知不知道 |
| 00:11:07,240 | 00:11:08,240 | 為什麼台糖 |
| 00:11:08,240 | 00:11:09,240 | 他有拿到問題油 |
| 00:11:09,240 | 00:11:11,240 | 所以他才預防性下降 |
| 00:11:11,240 | 00:11:12,240 | 為什麼他沒有查出來 |
| 00:11:12,240 | 00:11:13,240 | 這點你們清楚嗎 |
| 00:11:14,240 | 00:11:16,240 | 他沒有允收 |
| 00:11:16,240 | 00:11:18,240 | 他沒有允收怎麼製成產品 |
| 00:11:18,240 | 00:11:19,240 | 他的標準 |
| 00:11:19,240 | 00:11:20,240 | 他沒有 |
| 00:11:20,240 | 00:11:22,240 | 他都是符合標準 |
| 00:11:22,240 | 00:11:23,240 | 他才允收 |
| 00:11:23,240 | 00:11:25,240 | 他是因為拿到問題油以後 |
| 00:11:25,240 | 00:11:26,240 | 製成的產品 |
| 00:11:26,240 | 00:11:27,240 | 沒有問題 |
| 00:11:27,240 | 00:11:28,240 | 可是他當時就有 |
| 00:11:28,240 | 00:11:29,240 | 有跟中聯油脂 |
| 00:11:29,240 | 00:11:30,240 | 拿到問題油 |
| 00:11:30,240 | 00:11:31,240 | 他也沒有查出來 |
| 00:11:31,240 | 00:11:33,240 | 我跟你們報告 |
| 00:11:33,240 | 00:11:35,240 | 我們台糖是國營公司 |
| 00:11:35,240 | 00:11:36,240 | 上市的公司 |
| 00:11:36,240 | 00:11:37,240 | 他也查不出來 |
| 00:11:37,240 | 00:11:39,240 | 是 跟委員報告 |
| 00:11:39,240 | 00:11:40,240 | 還有工廠還在高雄 |
| 00:11:40,240 | 00:11:41,240 | 是 |
| 00:11:41,240 | 00:11:42,240 | 那個台糖公司報告 |
| 00:11:42,240 | 00:11:45,240 | 我們的沙拉油 |
| 00:11:45,240 | 00:11:48,240 | 都是用美國的黃豆 |
| 00:11:48,240 | 00:11:49,240 | 那不只 |
| 00:11:49,240 | 00:11:51,240 | 中聯油脂進給台糖那批 |
| 00:11:51,240 | 00:11:52,240 | 不是 有沒有 |
| 00:11:52,240 | 00:11:53,240 | 有嘛 才預防性下降 |
| 00:11:53,240 | 00:11:55,240 | 你現在跟我講美國黃豆 |
| 00:11:55,240 | 00:11:56,240 | 我跟你們講的是87黃豆 |
| 00:11:56,240 | 00:11:58,240 | 是 我跟委員說明一下 |
| 00:11:58,240 | 00:11:59,240 | 美國的黃豆 |
| 00:11:59,240 | 00:12:00,240 | 造成的出油 |
| 00:12:00,240 | 00:12:02,240 | 那是絕對不會有問題 |
| 00:12:02,240 | 00:12:04,240 | 那我們不足的部分 |
| 00:12:04,240 | 00:12:06,240 | 會出現跟中聯油脂進嘛 |
| 00:12:06,240 | 00:12:07,240 | 那為什麼你拿到 |
| 00:12:07,240 | 00:12:08,240 | 你們有沒有驗 |
| 00:12:08,240 | 00:12:09,240 | 有 有驗 |
| 00:12:09,240 | 00:12:11,240 | 中聯的油脂的部分 |
| 00:12:11,240 | 00:12:12,240 | 我們有驗 |
| 00:12:12,240 | 00:12:13,240 | 每一批我們都會驗 |
| 00:12:13,240 | 00:12:15,240 | 那因為有一批驗 |
| 00:12:15,240 | 00:12:16,240 | 驗出來還是超標 |
| 00:12:16,240 | 00:12:17,240 | 我們就沒有收 |
| 00:12:17,240 | 00:12:19,240 | 其他都有收 |
| 00:12:19,240 | 00:12:20,240 | 那你們為什麼驗到 |
| 00:12:20,240 | 00:12:22,240 | 你們沒有回報 |
| 00:12:22,240 | 00:12:23,240 | 那表示現在 |
| 00:12:23,240 | 00:12:24,240 | 讓我們才知道說 |
| 00:12:24,240 | 00:12:26,240 | 其實台糖有收到 |
| 00:12:26,240 | 00:12:27,240 | 中聯油脂的油毒 |
| 00:12:27,240 | 00:12:30,240 | 如果沒有回報 沒有申報 |
| 00:12:30,240 | 00:12:31,240 | 你現在意思是這樣子嗎 |
| 00:12:31,240 | 00:12:32,240 | 那個是出油 |
| 00:12:32,240 | 00:12:33,240 | 那個是出油 |
| 00:12:33,240 | 00:12:35,240 | 收到出油有毒不用回報 |
| 00:12:35,240 | 00:12:37,240 | 那個不是成品油 |
| 00:12:37,240 | 00:12:38,240 | 那我了解啊 |
| 00:12:38,240 | 00:12:40,240 | 現在我們南橋拿到的 |
| 00:12:40,240 | 00:12:41,240 | 也不是 |
| 00:12:41,240 | 00:12:42,240 | 也是出油啊 |
| 00:12:42,240 | 00:12:43,240 | 也不是產品啊 |
| 00:12:43,240 | 00:12:44,240 | 他拿的是 |
| 00:12:44,240 | 00:12:45,240 | 那你意思 |
| 00:12:45,240 | 00:12:46,240 | 然後署長部長 |
| 00:12:46,240 | 00:12:47,240 | 你們現在說拿到出油 |
| 00:12:47,240 | 00:12:50,240 | 有問題也不用回報 |
| 00:12:50,240 | 00:12:51,240 | 不是不一樣 |
| 00:12:51,240 | 00:12:54,240 | 因為在我們油品的話 |
| 00:12:54,240 | 00:12:56,240 | 我們訂的兩PPV |
| 00:12:56,240 | 00:12:57,240 | 是訂產品 |
| 00:12:57,240 | 00:12:59,240 | 產品的標準 |
| 00:12:59,240 | 00:13:01,240 | 不是原料標準 |
| 00:13:01,240 | 00:13:03,240 | 所以原料有本品皮沒有問題 |
| 00:13:03,240 | 00:13:04,240 | 但是他的過程 |
| 00:13:04,240 | 00:13:06,240 | 過程當中是可以處理 |
| 00:13:06,240 | 00:13:07,240 | 可以精煉 |
| 00:13:07,240 | 00:13:10,240 | 他後過精煉的過程可以下降 |
| 00:13:10,240 | 00:13:12,240 | 所以部長我今天從剛剛聽到你現在 |
| 00:13:12,240 | 00:13:15,240 | 有進有問題的巴西黃豆不用驗 |
| 00:13:15,240 | 00:13:18,240 | 有進有問題的 |
| 00:13:18,240 | 00:13:21,240 | 有問題油的這個出品也不用驗 |
| 00:13:21,240 | 00:13:23,240 | 難道這是我們食安武漢 |
| 00:13:23,240 | 00:13:24,240 | 原料要驗 |
| 00:13:24,240 | 00:13:25,240 | 交給大家的一個方式嗎 |
| 00:13:25,240 | 00:13:28,240 | 驗完之後他就會去調整他的製程 |
| 00:13:28,240 | 00:13:29,240 | 所以要調整嘛 |
| 00:13:29,240 | 00:13:30,240 | 一定要調整嘛 |
| 00:13:30,240 | 00:13:32,240 | 拿到有毒的就先調整嘛 |
| 00:13:32,240 | 00:13:34,240 | 不是拿到有毒你的品質不同 |
| 00:13:34,240 | 00:13:37,240 | 那麼你的精煉的過程當中 |
| 00:13:37,240 | 00:13:38,240 | 就有不同的手法 |
| 00:13:38,240 | 00:13:39,240 | 部長我今天要跟你分享這些東西 |
| 00:13:39,240 | 00:13:44,240 | 都是你未來可以做調整跟改善的一個目標之一 |
| 00:13:44,240 | 00:13:45,240 | 因為本期就看到這麼多問題 |
| 00:13:45,240 | 00:13:47,240 | 好再來我要請教 |
| 00:13:47,240 | 00:13:49,240 | 這裡喔 |
| 00:13:49,240 | 00:13:52,240 | 這個是針對我相信食安的問題 |
| 00:13:52,240 | 00:13:53,240 | 全民人群很生氣啊 |
| 00:13:53,240 | 00:13:57,240 | 就求一個就希望我不敢總統要道歉 |
| 00:13:57,240 | 00:13:58,240 | 我們行政院長要道歉 |
| 00:13:58,240 | 00:14:00,240 | 那行政院長這題啊 |
| 00:14:00,240 | 00:14:01,240 | 我不知道部長可以回答 |
| 00:14:01,240 | 00:14:06,240 | 行政院長在4月1號針對一批油品有道歉 |
| 00:14:06,240 | 00:14:09,240 | 可是本席要覺得很納悶的就是 |
| 00:14:09,240 | 00:14:13,240 | 其實這一批油品啊根據食藥署的了解 |
| 00:14:13,240 | 00:14:16,240 | 這批油品啊其實它是不是有問題的黃豆 |
| 00:14:16,240 | 00:14:18,240 | 它是美國黃豆 |
| 00:14:18,240 | 00:14:21,240 | 美國黃豆製作成的製成品 |
| 00:14:21,240 | 00:14:25,240 | 所以我不曉得這個總統態院長針對4月1號 |
| 00:14:25,240 | 00:14:27,240 | 他只認為行政流程有缺失 |
| 00:14:27,240 | 00:14:29,240 | 他只能針對的是沒有問題 |
| 00:14:29,240 | 00:14:34,240 | 用美國黃豆製成的這個食用油來做道歉 |
| 00:14:34,240 | 00:14:37,240 | 他認為說因為你們食藥署沒有跟他好好報告 |
| 00:14:37,240 | 00:14:38,240 | 他很生氣 |
| 00:14:38,240 | 00:14:40,240 | 可是他到現在為止 |
| 00:14:40,240 | 00:14:44,240 | 是完全沒有對巴西黃豆的毒油事件做道歉 |
| 00:14:44,240 | 00:14:45,240 | 我這樣講有錯嗎 |
| 00:14:45,240 | 00:14:47,240 | 跟委員說明 |
| 00:14:47,240 | 00:14:51,240 | 我們主要是在7月9號已經公佈 |
| 00:14:51,240 | 00:14:55,240 | 4月到6月所有他的產品都是要下架 |
| 00:14:55,240 | 00:14:57,240 | 同時他要報給我們批號 |
| 00:14:57,240 | 00:15:00,240 | 但是他沒有報4月1號這個 |
| 00:15:00,240 | 00:15:01,240 | 所以怎麼會有生氣啊 |
| 00:15:01,240 | 00:15:02,240 | 昨天開始就走這個平台的話 |
| 00:15:02,240 | 00:15:05,240 | 因為隱匿所以我們後來又加罰他 |
| 00:15:05,240 | 00:15:06,240 | 那批油是 |
| 00:15:06,240 | 00:15:08,240 | 那是美國黃豆啊 |
| 00:15:08,240 | 00:15:10,240 | 那不是巴西黃豆造成的毒油 |
| 00:15:10,240 | 00:15:11,240 | 這跟那個民間議題有在變的 |
| 00:15:11,240 | 00:15:12,240 | 這個是到我們 |
| 00:15:12,240 | 00:15:13,240 | 部長我說有錯嗎 |
| 00:15:13,240 | 00:15:15,240 | 這個是我們到最後呢 |
| 00:15:15,240 | 00:15:18,240 | 那麼經過完整的檢驗之後 |
| 00:15:18,240 | 00:15:20,240 | 才去確認他的問題出在哪裡 |
| 00:15:20,240 | 00:15:21,240 | 我問一下4月1號 |
| 00:15:21,240 | 00:15:27,240 | 我們會不會要求4月到6月全部預防性下降 |
| 00:15:27,240 | 00:15:29,240 | 對啊 我了解4月1號我認部長 |
| 00:15:29,240 | 00:15:32,240 | 4月1號那批的使用油是不是美國黃豆 |
| 00:15:32,240 | 00:15:34,240 | 不是巴西黃豆請回答 |
| 00:15:35,240 | 00:15:36,240 | 他是用 |
| 00:15:36,240 | 00:15:38,240 | 對這是用的是美國 |
| 00:15:38,240 | 00:15:41,240 | 對啊所以主任蔡院長沒有對這次的毒油事件道歉 |
| 00:15:41,240 | 00:15:44,240 | 他是對行政程序大家沒有聽到的話 |
| 00:15:44,240 | 00:15:45,240 | 把4月1號的批次給他 |
| 00:15:45,240 | 00:15:47,240 | 他很生氣啊 |
| 00:15:47,240 | 00:15:50,240 | 所以部長 署長我還是要跟你們講 |
| 00:15:50,240 | 00:15:52,240 | 最後 中天啊 昨天啊 |
| 00:15:52,240 | 00:15:56,240 | 在開完會有19批的商品重新下架 |
| 00:15:56,240 | 00:16:00,240 | 但你署長 部長你們知道這19批重新上架 |
| 00:16:00,240 | 00:16:03,240 | 的公斤數油品的公斤數是多少嗎 |
| 00:16:03,240 | 00:16:07,240 | 就我說原本的你們資料給我的是4000多公噸 |
| 00:16:07,240 | 00:16:10,240 | 你們都查完這4000公噸完全沒有問題嗎 |
| 00:16:10,240 | 00:16:11,240 | 你們是怎麼查的 |
| 00:16:11,240 | 00:16:17,240 | 跟委員說明這是為了當時候因為他的這個中聯的這個隱匿 |
| 00:16:17,240 | 00:16:21,240 | 還有他的檢體沒有辦法信任的情況之下 |
| 00:16:21,240 | 00:16:23,240 | 為了讓國人安心 |
| 00:16:23,240 | 00:16:25,240 | 所以我們擴大預防性下架 |
| 00:16:25,240 | 00:16:29,240 | 4到6月然後我們再進行逐批他的原油的檢驗 |
| 00:16:29,240 | 00:16:34,240 | 所以經過我們逐批的原油跟下油商品的檢驗 |
| 00:16:34,240 | 00:16:37,240 | 這19批檢驗都是合格的 |
| 00:16:37,240 | 00:16:38,240 | 所以我們才公佈他 |
| 00:16:38,240 | 00:16:40,240 | 部長我們怎麼檢查 |
| 00:16:40,240 | 00:16:42,240 | 是檢查樣品嗎還是怎麼檢查 |
| 00:16:42,240 | 00:16:44,240 | 原油就會抽樣 |
| 00:16:44,240 | 00:16:45,240 | 從原油就抽樣 |
| 00:16:45,240 | 00:16:46,240 | 檢查樣品確定 |
| 00:16:46,240 | 00:16:50,240 | 有原油的抽樣也有下油的這個產品的抽樣 |
| 00:16:50,240 | 00:16:52,240 | 都用品還是產品 |
| 00:16:52,240 | 00:16:56,240 | 所以一共原油當然是抽樣的樣本 |
| 00:16:56,240 | 00:16:59,240 | 然後產品也會去做抽樣 |
| 00:16:59,240 | 00:17:00,240 | 是抽成品還是樣品 |
| 00:17:00,240 | 00:17:01,240 | 成品啊 |
| 00:17:01,240 | 00:17:06,240 | 下油的是成品上油的是原油的抽樣 |
| 00:17:06,240 | 00:17:08,240 | 所以他是兩層一起把關 |
| 00:17:08,240 | 00:17:10,240 | 所以才會驗200多個檢體 |
| 00:17:10,240 | 00:17:12,240 | 雖然是只有29批 |
| 00:17:12,240 | 00:17:14,240 | 但是我們驗了200多個檢體 |
| 00:17:14,240 | 00:17:15,240 | 就是這樣來的 |
| 00:17:15,240 | 00:17:18,240 | 200多個檢體確定用抽查的方式沒有問題 |
| 00:17:18,240 | 00:17:19,240 | 對對對 |
| 00:17:19,240 | 00:17:21,240 | 好最後部長跟署長 |
| 00:17:21,240 | 00:17:23,240 | 其實這次的毒油事件 |
| 00:17:23,240 | 00:17:25,240 | 相信這個中央還有地方 |
| 00:17:25,240 | 00:17:26,240 | 大家一起努力 |
| 00:17:26,240 | 00:17:30,240 | 還有很多地方可以去做討論跟改善的 |
| 00:17:30,240 | 00:17:31,240 | 那我相信這次毒油事件 |
| 00:17:31,240 | 00:17:34,240 | 大概全民都吃到了毒油 |
| 00:17:34,240 | 00:17:36,240 | 那我現在剛剛其實 |
| 00:17:36,240 | 00:17:39,240 | 我們本黨有很多同仁去凱道 |
| 00:17:39,240 | 00:17:43,240 | 我們有四位的人民在凱道上進行抗議 |
| 00:17:43,240 | 00:17:45,240 | 已經超過70多個小時 |
| 00:17:45,240 | 00:17:47,240 | 那我是不是可以邀請部長 |
| 00:17:47,240 | 00:17:48,240 | 如果你有誠意的話 |
| 00:17:48,240 | 00:17:50,240 | 如果這件事情有問題的話 |
| 00:17:50,240 | 00:17:52,240 | 等一下可以請你講幾句話 |
| 00:17:52,240 | 00:17:53,240 | 那我是不是也拜託說 |
| 00:17:53,240 | 00:17:55,240 | 如果等一下委員會開完 |
| 00:17:55,240 | 00:17:56,240 | 是不是應該去看一下 |
| 00:17:56,240 | 00:18:01,240 | 我們台灣正在為食安努力的這些我們的英雄 |
| 00:18:01,240 | 00:18:04,240 | 我想我們現在已經提出了修法 |
| 00:18:04,240 | 00:18:07,240 | 要來把這一些從這個事件當中 |
| 00:18:07,240 | 00:18:10,240 | 所暴露的漏洞趕快把它強化 |
| 00:18:10,240 | 00:18:13,240 | 所以我們希望能趕快來進入在立法院的修法 |
| 00:18:13,240 | 00:18:16,240 | 讓這個法規能夠完備 |
| 00:18:16,240 | 00:18:20,240 | 那麼來確保這個整個食安制度更好 |
| 00:18:20,240 | 00:18:22,240 | 所以部長不用過去嗎 |
| 00:18:22,240 | 00:18:25,240 | 我今天一直在立法院 |
| 00:18:25,240 | 00:18:27,240 | 後面還有一些修法 |
| 00:18:27,240 | 00:18:29,240 | 我們要繼續趕快 |
| 00:18:29,240 | 00:18:31,240 | 你去的話我可以陪你 |
| 00:18:31,240 | 00:18:33,240 | 你去的話我可以陪你 |
| 00:18:33,240 | 00:18:35,240 | 如果我要去的時候 |
| 00:18:35,240 | 00:18:37,240 | 我再向委員通知 |
| 00:18:37,240 | 00:18:38,240 | 好 謝謝部長 |
| 00:18:38,240 | 00:18:40,240 | 那部長對這次的食安事件 |
| 00:18:40,240 | 00:18:42,240 | 你有要表達任何的意思嗎 |
| 00:18:42,240 | 00:18:44,240 | 羅羅事件你有沒有要表達任何意思 |
| 00:18:44,240 | 00:18:46,240 | 我之前一再的表達了 |
| 00:18:46,240 | 00:18:50,240 | 這個過程確實是造成國人的困擾 |
| 00:18:50,240 | 00:18:52,240 | 但是我們最快的速度 |
| 00:18:52,240 | 00:18:55,240 | 讓所有可能的問題的商品都下架 |
| 00:18:55,240 | 00:19:00,240 | 讓確保這個國人在使用這個油品上能夠放心 |
| 00:19:00,240 | 00:19:03,240 | 那現在我們會接下來去精進這整個制度 |
| 00:19:03,240 | 00:19:07,240 | 讓這個未來這樣的事件不再重複發生 |
| 00:19:07,240 | 00:19:11,240 | 好 部長你這樣子是沒有道歉你明清楚嗎 |
| 00:19:11,240 | 00:19:14,240 | 我上次已經提過了 |
| 00:19:14,240 | 00:19:17,240 | 我覺得最重要的是把事情做好 |
| 00:19:17,240 | 00:19:19,240 | 那麼這個道歉的事情 |
| 00:19:19,240 | 00:19:21,240 | 我上次已經跟大家表達過了 |
| 00:19:21,240 | 00:19:23,240 | 好 謝謝 |
| 00:19:23,240 | 00:19:25,240 | 謝謝張志綸委員的諮詢 |