iVOD / 170679
本逐字稿內容由 AI 自動生成，可能包含錯誤、遺漏或誤譯之處。請使用者務必與原始影片音訊內容交叉比對，以確保資訊正確性。另可參考立法院日後釋出的正式公報以取得最終權威版本。
廖偉翔 @
| Start Time | End Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00:00,000 | 00:00:01,000 | 市長 部長 |
| 00:00:01,000 | 00:00:02,000 | 有請石崇良部長 |
| 00:00:05,000 | 00:00:06,000 | 部長你好 |
| 00:00:06,000 | 00:00:07,000 | 部長我想我就直接問喔 |
| 00:00:07,000 | 00:00:08,000 | 我想要先請教喔 |
| 00:00:08,000 | 00:00:14,000 | 目前這一次致癌的這個中聯酋這個事件 |
| 00:00:14,000 | 00:00:18,000 | 現在的源頭陳盈到底有沒有已經確定了 |
| 00:00:18,000 | 00:00:21,000 | 是黃豆的原料製成 |
| 00:00:21,000 | 00:00:24,000 | 還是因為廠商放寬什麼十倍的黃豆的允收標準 |
| 00:00:24,000 | 00:00:26,000 | 才導致 到底是哪一個 |
| 00:00:26,000 | 00:00:27,000 | 你們現在查的狀況如何 |
| 00:00:27,000 | 00:00:29,000 | 根據我們之前的查場 |
| 00:00:29,000 | 00:00:33,000 | 還有之後呢我們把這所有的每一批的 |
| 00:00:33,000 | 00:00:36,000 | 重新都檢驗出來的檢驗結果 |
| 00:00:36,000 | 00:00:42,000 | 然後昨日呢又有這個專家再進場再去做最後的比對 |
| 00:00:42,000 | 00:00:48,000 | 那麼現在最大的因素還是會歸因在這個原料 |
| 00:00:48,000 | 00:00:49,000 | 加上它的 |
| 00:00:49,000 | 00:00:50,000 | 所以是黃豆原料的問題嗎 |
| 00:00:50,000 | 00:00:55,000 | 對 它的某一些批次的品質確實是不好 |
| 00:00:55,000 | 00:00:57,000 | 原料出了問題喔 |
| 00:00:57,000 | 00:00:59,000 | 所以你現在確定了嗎 |
| 00:00:59,000 | 00:01:00,000 | 確定是原料不是製成 |
| 00:01:00,000 | 00:01:03,000 | 批次 當然它的製成上有多項 |
| 00:01:03,000 | 00:01:08,000 | 沒有符合HACCP的那個管制點 |
| 00:01:08,000 | 00:01:13,000 | 那個管制點上檢查點上也沒有符合這個標準的要求 |
| 00:01:13,000 | 00:01:15,000 | 所以我還是聽不懂到底是哪一個原因 |
| 00:01:15,000 | 00:01:16,000 | 還是兩個都是原因 |
| 00:01:16,000 | 00:01:20,000 | 如果簡單的講就是它的先天就不良 |
| 00:01:20,000 | 00:01:21,000 | 但是後天又沒有調 |
| 00:01:21,000 | 00:01:22,000 | 所以 |
| 00:01:22,000 | 00:01:24,000 | 所以你的意思就 |
| 00:01:24,000 | 00:01:25,000 | 我重整一下喔 |
| 00:01:25,000 | 00:01:26,000 | 因為這個很重要 |
| 00:01:26,000 | 00:01:29,000 | 所以你的講法就是原料有問題 |
| 00:01:29,000 | 00:01:31,000 | 製成也有問題 |
| 00:01:31,000 | 00:01:32,000 | 對 |
| 00:01:32,000 | 00:01:33,000 | 是不是 |
| 00:01:33,000 | 00:01:34,000 | 所以兩個都有問題 |
| 00:01:34,000 | 00:01:35,000 | 好確定喔 |
| 00:01:35,000 | 00:01:40,000 | 那當然是它的這個原料的貢獻會更高一些 |
| 00:01:40,000 | 00:01:42,000 | 所以你覺得主因還是原料為主 |
| 00:01:42,000 | 00:01:44,000 | 它的調整它的製成沒有改變 |
| 00:01:44,000 | 00:01:47,000 | 那但是它的原料本身的品質不好 |
| 00:01:47,000 | 00:01:51,000 | 理論上如果你的這個原料的品質不好的時候 |
| 00:01:51,000 | 00:01:52,000 | 那你的精煉過程 |
| 00:01:52,000 | 00:01:53,000 | 精煉過程 |
| 00:01:53,000 | 00:01:54,000 | 好 |
| 00:01:54,000 | 00:01:55,000 | 所以你覺得是原料的問題喔 |
| 00:01:55,000 | 00:01:56,000 | 那本席就想要 |
| 00:01:56,000 | 00:01:58,000 | 製成沒有搭配調整也是 |
| 00:01:58,000 | 00:01:59,000 | 本席就想要請問一下 |
| 00:01:59,000 | 00:02:01,000 | 那原料出了問題 |
| 00:02:01,000 | 00:02:04,000 | 那這批原料你們有去追蹤嗎 |
| 00:02:04,000 | 00:02:07,000 | 到底這批原料是只有拿來做油 |
| 00:02:07,000 | 00:02:09,000 | 還是也有拿去做別的食品 |
| 00:02:09,000 | 00:02:13,000 | 譬如說豆漿或是大豆相關的食品有沒有 |
| 00:02:13,000 | 00:02:15,000 | 這批原料你有沒有去追 |
| 00:02:15,000 | 00:02:17,000 | 因為這一批是它進口來的 |
| 00:02:17,000 | 00:02:19,000 | 它自己進口來的這一批 |
| 00:02:19,000 | 00:02:21,000 | 然後進到它的廠裡面 |
| 00:02:21,000 | 00:02:23,000 | 因為大家還要做其他的處理 |
| 00:02:23,000 | 00:02:25,000 | 沒關係 部長你又回答我你有沒有掌握 |
| 00:02:25,000 | 00:02:28,000 | 因為這一批是不是都已經確定都是做成油 |
| 00:02:28,000 | 00:02:30,000 | 還是說它有可能留在市面上面 |
| 00:02:30,000 | 00:02:32,000 | 有其他的廠商也買了這一批 |
| 00:02:32,000 | 00:02:33,000 | 有問題的劣質品 |
| 00:02:33,000 | 00:02:35,000 | 它拿去做了別的東西 |
| 00:02:35,000 | 00:02:36,000 | 有沒有這件事情你有沒有追蹤 |
| 00:02:36,000 | 00:02:37,000 | 這個是要數的 |
| 00:02:37,000 | 00:02:40,000 | 我們去追蹤從海關進來的這一批 |
| 00:02:40,000 | 00:02:41,000 | 那追蹤的狀況怎麼樣 |
| 00:02:41,000 | 00:02:42,000 | 就是在這個廠 |
| 00:02:42,000 | 00:02:44,000 | 只有到中聯油紙廠 |
| 00:02:44,000 | 00:02:47,000 | 它這個這批原料沒有到其他地方 |
| 00:02:47,000 | 00:02:49,000 | 你可以保證嗎 |
| 00:02:49,000 | 00:02:50,000 | 這個稍微補充一下 |
| 00:02:50,000 | 00:02:54,000 | 因為這一批的整個的傳奇是進來 |
| 00:02:54,000 | 00:02:56,000 | 那進來之後呢 |
| 00:02:56,000 | 00:02:58,000 | 其實國內幾個自由廠 |
| 00:02:58,000 | 00:03:00,000 | 其實共同都會有共同採購的情形 |
| 00:03:00,000 | 00:03:01,000 | 所以它不只在 |
| 00:03:01,000 | 00:03:03,000 | 對 所以在其他的廠裡面 |
| 00:03:03,000 | 00:03:05,000 | 針對的製程上面不同 |
| 00:03:05,000 | 00:03:07,000 | 所以就會達到最後我們管制點 |
| 00:03:07,000 | 00:03:09,000 | 最後油品的部分 |
| 00:03:09,000 | 00:03:11,000 | 所以你跟剛剛部長講的有點不一樣 |
| 00:03:11,000 | 00:03:12,000 | 你這批油進來的時候 |
| 00:03:12,000 | 00:03:13,000 | 你這個大豆進來的時候 |
| 00:03:13,000 | 00:03:15,000 | 可能有到其他的油廠 |
| 00:03:16,000 | 00:03:17,000 | 都是自由 |
| 00:03:17,000 | 00:03:18,000 | 都是自由的油廠 |
| 00:03:18,000 | 00:03:19,000 | 都是自由的 |
| 00:03:19,000 | 00:03:20,000 | 都是自由的 |
| 00:03:20,000 | 00:03:21,000 | 所以有到其他的油廠 |
| 00:03:21,000 | 00:03:22,000 | 那你全部都有追到 |
| 00:03:22,000 | 00:03:24,000 | 其他油廠有沒有問題 |
| 00:03:24,000 | 00:03:26,000 | 你有百分之百掌握嗎 |
| 00:03:27,000 | 00:03:28,000 | 你可以在這裡拍胸部 |
| 00:03:28,000 | 00:03:29,000 | 跟國人保證嗎 |
| 00:03:29,000 | 00:03:31,000 | 這邊我們有進一步的去針對 |
| 00:03:31,000 | 00:03:33,000 | 其他現在的油品的狀況 |
| 00:03:33,000 | 00:03:34,000 | 都進一步的去分析 |
| 00:03:34,000 | 00:03:35,000 | 每一個嗎 |
| 00:03:35,000 | 00:03:37,000 | 跟委員說明就是因為其他 |
| 00:03:37,000 | 00:03:41,000 | 每一個這個油廠它的製程還是不同 |
| 00:03:41,000 | 00:03:43,000 | 我舉例而言 |
| 00:03:43,000 | 00:03:46,000 | 以這個中聯它是一個白土 |
| 00:03:46,000 | 00:03:49,000 | 那麼其他的廠它會有加活性炭或什麼 |
| 00:03:49,000 | 00:03:51,000 | 那對其他的這個煉油廠 |
| 00:03:51,000 | 00:03:53,000 | 我們也都去抽驗 |
| 00:03:53,000 | 00:03:55,000 | 沒有我們不進入製程 |
| 00:03:55,000 | 00:03:57,000 | 每個人的製程當然不同 |
| 00:03:57,000 | 00:03:58,000 | 你現在也不可能一一把 |
| 00:03:58,000 | 00:04:00,000 | 每一家廠商的製程講得很清楚 |
| 00:04:00,000 | 00:04:03,000 | 我現在想要幫老百姓問的 |
| 00:04:03,000 | 00:04:05,000 | 就是你有沒有完全掌握了 |
| 00:04:05,000 | 00:04:07,000 | 這一批有問題的原料 |
| 00:04:07,000 | 00:04:10,000 | 然後它沒有跑到別的食品加工裡 |
| 00:04:10,000 | 00:04:13,000 | 你確保它真的都只是到自由裡面 |
| 00:04:13,000 | 00:04:15,000 | 然後你現在追查到的 |
| 00:04:15,000 | 00:04:19,000 | 你去檢驗到的都是這些這個範疇內的 |
| 00:04:19,000 | 00:04:21,000 | 沒有多的跑到市面上其他東西 |
| 00:04:21,000 | 00:04:22,000 | 你可以保證這件事情嗎 |
| 00:04:22,000 | 00:04:25,000 | 其他的煉油廠我們也都去抽驗了 |
| 00:04:25,000 | 00:04:26,000 | 所以其他的是 |
| 00:04:26,000 | 00:04:29,000 | 那量呢你有去核對勾稽這個量嗎 |
| 00:04:29,000 | 00:04:31,000 | 譬如說進來假設 |
| 00:04:31,000 | 00:04:33,000 | 這個一萬噸好了 |
| 00:04:33,000 | 00:04:35,000 | 或是三萬噸十萬噸好了 |
| 00:04:35,000 | 00:04:37,000 | 十萬噸你確定它都到各個廠 |
| 00:04:37,000 | 00:04:38,000 | 然後各個廠 |
| 00:04:38,000 | 00:04:40,000 | 譬如說五個廠四個廠 |
| 00:04:40,000 | 00:04:42,000 | 二點五萬噸 |
| 00:04:42,000 | 00:04:44,000 | 然後你確保說它都是到這裡 |
| 00:04:44,000 | 00:04:46,000 | 而沒有人拿去我舉例 |
| 00:04:46,000 | 00:04:49,000 | 拿去做豆漿豆皮豆腐 |
| 00:04:49,000 | 00:04:50,000 | 是不是這樣子 |
| 00:04:50,000 | 00:04:52,000 | 我只是想要幫百姓跟你確認 |
| 00:04:52,000 | 00:04:53,000 | 跟委員說明 |
| 00:04:53,000 | 00:04:55,000 | 因為這個不是絕對的因果 |
| 00:04:55,000 | 00:04:58,000 | 就是原料的品質不佳 |
| 00:04:58,000 | 00:05:01,000 | 那麼要搭配後面的製程 |
| 00:05:01,000 | 00:05:03,000 | 所以有的製程是correct |
| 00:05:03,000 | 00:05:04,000 | 是ok的 |
| 00:05:04,000 | 00:05:05,000 | 它還是可以做出安全 |
| 00:05:05,000 | 00:05:08,000 | 不是說它並不是壞掉的 |
| 00:05:08,000 | 00:05:10,000 | 壞掉的或者是腐爛的 |
| 00:05:10,000 | 00:05:11,000 | 所以你這批 |
| 00:05:11,000 | 00:05:12,000 | 本來你剛剛說最重要的是 |
| 00:05:12,000 | 00:05:14,000 | 原料本身就有比較劣質 |
| 00:05:14,000 | 00:05:16,000 | 然後再搭配到它製程 |
| 00:05:16,000 | 00:05:18,000 | 處理的過程當中 |
| 00:05:18,000 | 00:05:19,000 | 它可能烘焙過度 |
| 00:05:19,000 | 00:05:21,000 | 其實你這樣邏輯是有點打架的 |
| 00:05:21,000 | 00:05:23,000 | 因為你剛剛前面已經先說了 |
| 00:05:23,000 | 00:05:24,000 | 你說大部分主要原因 |
| 00:05:24,000 | 00:05:26,000 | 是來自於這個原料有問題 |
| 00:05:26,000 | 00:05:29,000 | 然後但是它有其他的廠 |
| 00:05:29,000 | 00:05:31,000 | 可能製程做得可能比較好 |
| 00:05:31,000 | 00:05:33,000 | 所以它沒有驗出問題 |
| 00:05:33,000 | 00:05:35,000 | 好但是你跟我的問題脫節了 |
| 00:05:35,000 | 00:05:37,000 | 我問的是你有沒有掌握局立 |
| 00:05:37,000 | 00:05:38,000 | 它只拿十萬噸 |
| 00:05:38,000 | 00:05:39,000 | 它是不是真的是確保 |
| 00:05:39,000 | 00:05:40,000 | 你就只進了它幾家廠 |
| 00:05:40,000 | 00:05:42,000 | 因為它這個是有相關聯性 |
| 00:05:42,000 | 00:05:44,000 | 就是說它的品質 |
| 00:05:44,000 | 00:05:45,000 | 那我舉例一下 |
| 00:05:45,000 | 00:05:46,000 | 不好的時候 |
| 00:05:46,000 | 00:05:48,000 | 那你的製程是可以把它降低的 |
| 00:05:48,000 | 00:05:49,000 | 不講那我舉例一下 |
| 00:05:49,000 | 00:05:52,000 | 假如你沒有辦法回答我這個問題的話 |
| 00:05:52,000 | 00:05:54,000 | 我就代表你根本沒有追蹤清楚 |
| 00:05:54,000 | 00:05:55,000 | 因為我的意思就是說 |
| 00:05:55,000 | 00:05:57,000 | 如果今天這個豆進來了 |
| 00:05:57,000 | 00:05:58,000 | 如果有其他人覺得說 |
| 00:05:58,000 | 00:06:01,000 | 這批豆好像價格比較好 |
| 00:06:01,000 | 00:06:03,000 | 那我就買了它來做 |
| 00:06:03,000 | 00:06:07,000 | 市面上可能有五六家十家的豆漿 |
| 00:06:07,000 | 00:06:09,000 | 假設有十家豆漿 |
| 00:06:09,000 | 00:06:10,000 | 好那十家豆漿裡面 |
| 00:06:10,000 | 00:06:12,000 | 有八家製程比較好 |
| 00:06:12,000 | 00:06:14,000 | 那裡有兩家製程比較不好 |
| 00:06:14,000 | 00:06:16,000 | 那是不是它也是有可能出問題 |
| 00:06:16,000 | 00:06:18,000 | 所以我只是要幫老百姓問清楚 |
| 00:06:18,000 | 00:06:19,000 | 你有沒有掌握好 |
| 00:06:19,000 | 00:06:21,000 | 它源頭進來的這一些 |
| 00:06:21,000 | 00:06:23,000 | 所有有問題的批號的原料 |
| 00:06:23,000 | 00:06:25,000 | 它到底去了哪裡 |
| 00:06:25,000 | 00:06:26,000 | 然後是不是就確保 |
| 00:06:26,000 | 00:06:27,000 | 它只有去煉油呢 |
| 00:06:27,000 | 00:06:28,000 | 都是在煉油啦 |
| 00:06:28,000 | 00:06:30,000 | 因為它是去改豆 |
| 00:06:30,000 | 00:06:31,000 | 你確認確定嗎 |
| 00:06:31,000 | 00:06:33,000 | 那你可以把你們這個追查的 |
| 00:06:33,000 | 00:06:36,000 | 相關的數據跟報告給本席辦公室 |
| 00:06:36,000 | 00:06:38,000 | 因為我想要幫老百姓確認這件事情 |
| 00:06:38,000 | 00:06:41,000 | 幫委員補充它這個六個批號的傳奇的 |
| 00:06:41,000 | 00:06:42,000 | 通通都是進入中聯 |
| 00:06:42,000 | 00:06:44,000 | 這個是很清楚的 |
| 00:06:44,000 | 00:06:45,000 | 一定跟委員做的這些保證 |
| 00:06:45,000 | 00:06:47,000 | 我們確定它都進來 |
| 00:06:47,000 | 00:06:49,000 | 這進來的因為在巴西的豆子裡面 |
| 00:06:49,000 | 00:06:51,000 | 完全都是在煉油的 |
| 00:06:51,000 | 00:06:52,000 | 這也是確定的 |
| 00:06:52,000 | 00:06:53,000 | 你確定你也確保說 |
| 00:06:53,000 | 00:06:56,000 | 它沒有跑到別的其他的產品 |
| 00:06:56,000 | 00:06:57,000 | 好OK |
| 00:06:57,000 | 00:06:59,000 | 因為我想要講的事情就是 |
| 00:06:59,000 | 00:07:00,000 | 這件事情到現在 |
| 00:07:00,000 | 00:07:01,000 | 我也是覺得到現在 |
| 00:07:01,000 | 00:07:03,000 | 我這樣好好的問 |
| 00:07:03,000 | 00:07:05,000 | 你才可以跟我保證 |
| 00:07:05,000 | 00:07:06,000 | 所以我覺得從食藥署 |
| 00:07:06,000 | 00:07:08,000 | 食藥署從6月30號接到通報到 |
| 00:07:08,000 | 00:07:10,000 | 7月20號才說要委託 |
| 00:07:10,000 | 00:07:12,000 | 食品工業發展研究所 |
| 00:07:12,000 | 00:07:14,000 | 成立獨立調查小組 |
| 00:07:14,000 | 00:07:17,000 | 其實到現在已經整整24天了 |
| 00:07:17,000 | 00:07:19,000 | 所以我剛剛一直要問 |
| 00:07:19,000 | 00:07:20,000 | 源頭到底在哪裡 |
| 00:07:20,000 | 00:07:22,000 | 到底有沒有確定查出來了 |
| 00:07:22,000 | 00:07:24,000 | 你的動作為什麼可以這麼慢 |
| 00:07:24,000 | 00:07:26,000 | 然後因為你們今天19批 |
| 00:07:26,000 | 00:07:27,000 | 你說要重新上架 |
| 00:07:27,000 | 00:07:31,000 | 那在沒有完全釐清情況之下 |
| 00:07:31,000 | 00:07:32,000 | 你又重新上架 |
| 00:07:32,000 | 00:07:34,000 | 到底有沒有辦法讓人民安心 |
| 00:07:34,000 | 00:07:35,000 | 所以我想要問的 |
| 00:07:35,000 | 00:07:36,000 | 民眾也很關心 |
| 00:07:36,000 | 00:07:38,000 | 那現在上架了嗎 |
| 00:07:38,000 | 00:07:40,000 | 你現在這19批的油已經上架了嗎 |
| 00:07:40,000 | 00:07:42,000 | 現在這19批的都是我們足批檢驗 |
| 00:07:42,000 | 00:07:43,000 | 而且這個樣本 |
| 00:07:43,000 | 00:07:44,000 | 那現在上架了嗎 |
| 00:07:44,000 | 00:07:45,000 | 有幾個樣本 |
| 00:07:45,000 | 00:07:47,000 | 那麼我們只是先公佈 |
| 00:07:47,000 | 00:07:48,000 | 說他們可以 |
| 00:07:48,000 | 00:07:51,000 | 因為之前是公佈預防性下架 |
| 00:07:51,000 | 00:07:54,000 | 那現在他因為已經合格了 |
| 00:07:54,000 | 00:07:56,000 | 所以他可以重新上架 |
| 00:07:56,000 | 00:07:58,000 | 那至於上架的速度 |
| 00:07:58,000 | 00:07:59,000 | 就是由廠商自己決定 |
| 00:07:59,000 | 00:08:01,000 | 那你有去掌握他上架的狀況 |
| 00:08:01,000 | 00:08:03,000 | 或者是你重新上架 |
| 00:08:03,000 | 00:08:04,000 | 會不會讓百姓知道說 |
| 00:08:04,000 | 00:08:06,000 | 這個是JP是重新上架的 |
| 00:08:06,000 | 00:08:09,000 | 讓大家知道可以標示的清楚 |
| 00:08:09,000 | 00:08:11,000 | 重新上架的就是安全的 |
| 00:08:11,000 | 00:08:13,000 | 那我們現在跟衛生局協調的 |
| 00:08:13,000 | 00:08:15,000 | 當然就是去確保都是 |
| 00:08:15,000 | 00:08:18,000 | 上架的都是我們通過 |
| 00:08:18,000 | 00:08:20,000 | 我們公佈的這一些就可以了 |
| 00:08:20,000 | 00:08:21,000 | 部長這件事情很簡單 |
| 00:08:21,000 | 00:08:23,000 | 民眾要的是一個知情權 |
| 00:08:23,000 | 00:08:25,000 | 他預防性下架了又上架了 |
| 00:08:25,000 | 00:08:27,000 | 當然你覺得上架了沒問題 |
| 00:08:27,000 | 00:08:28,000 | 但是民眾要的是 |
| 00:08:28,000 | 00:08:29,000 | 他買的時候 |
| 00:08:29,000 | 00:08:31,000 | 他會不會知道這是19批 |
| 00:08:31,000 | 00:08:32,000 | 那他自己就可以選擇 |
| 00:08:32,000 | 00:08:34,000 | 19批都是安全的 |
| 00:08:34,000 | 00:08:35,000 | 這個我們都驗過 |
| 00:08:35,000 | 00:08:36,000 | 跟委員說明 |
| 00:08:36,000 | 00:08:38,000 | 那7批不合格的 |
| 00:08:38,000 | 00:08:40,000 | 我們品項都公告的很清楚 |
| 00:08:40,000 | 00:08:42,000 | 那些都是要下架的 |
| 00:08:42,000 | 00:08:43,000 | 你還是跟我集同壓講 |
| 00:08:43,000 | 00:08:44,000 | 我在問的事情是 |
| 00:08:44,000 | 00:08:46,000 | 民眾如果想要知道 |
| 00:08:46,000 | 00:08:47,000 | 這19批 |
| 00:08:47,000 | 00:08:49,000 | 他有沒有辦法很清楚的辨識 |
| 00:08:49,000 | 00:08:51,000 | 他有沒有辦法很清楚的辨識說 |
| 00:08:51,000 | 00:08:53,000 | 這19批重新上架的 |
| 00:08:53,000 | 00:08:55,000 | 有是重新上架的這些 |
| 00:08:55,000 | 00:08:57,000 | 那他可以選擇嘛 |
| 00:08:57,000 | 00:08:59,000 | 但是這個都是檢驗合格了 |
| 00:08:59,000 | 00:09:01,000 | 所以我問的問題 |
| 00:09:01,000 | 00:09:02,000 | 你的意思就是說 |
| 00:09:02,000 | 00:09:03,000 | 不會有標示 |
| 00:09:03,000 | 00:09:04,000 | 然後民眾可能也不知道 |
| 00:09:04,000 | 00:09:05,000 | 因為我們沒有 |
| 00:09:05,000 | 00:09:06,000 | 所以這裡要請民眾好好的 |
| 00:09:06,000 | 00:09:07,000 | 去自己去調查 |
| 00:09:07,000 | 00:09:08,000 | 去查一下來源 |
| 00:09:08,000 | 00:09:09,000 | 你的意思是這樣嗎 |
| 00:09:09,000 | 00:09:11,000 | 這是我們只要是合格的 |
| 00:09:11,000 | 00:09:12,000 | 上架的合格 |
| 00:09:12,000 | 00:09:13,000 | 那都是 |
| 00:09:13,000 | 00:09:17,000 | 我們不會去公布這個合格批次 |
| 00:09:17,000 | 00:09:19,000 | 我們公布的是不合格的 |
| 00:09:19,000 | 00:09:20,000 | 絕對不可以上架 |
| 00:09:20,000 | 00:09:22,000 | 這個衛生局一定會去 |
| 00:09:22,000 | 00:09:24,000 | 這個後市場去做抽查 |
| 00:09:24,000 | 00:09:25,000 | 其實我認為你們的資訊 |
| 00:09:25,000 | 00:09:27,000 | 反而應該要這個時候 |
| 00:09:27,000 | 00:09:28,000 | 要做得更透明 |
| 00:09:28,000 | 00:09:30,000 | 因為你越不透明 |
| 00:09:30,000 | 00:09:31,000 | 百姓越擔心 |
| 00:09:31,000 | 00:09:32,000 | 他才導致說 |
| 00:09:32,000 | 00:09:35,000 | 他對於這架上的東西越緊張 |
| 00:09:35,000 | 00:09:36,000 | 其實你如果 |
| 00:09:36,000 | 00:09:37,000 | 你如果清清楚楚的 |
| 00:09:37,000 | 00:09:39,000 | 想辦法把這個標示講清楚 |
| 00:09:39,000 | 00:09:40,000 | 反正你現在上架就是合格 |
| 00:09:40,000 | 00:09:41,000 | 但是我也要告訴你說 |
| 00:09:41,000 | 00:09:43,000 | 就是這些PRO |
| 00:09:43,000 | 00:09:45,000 | 這些曾經預防性下架過 |
| 00:09:45,000 | 00:09:46,000 | 其實你這個時候 |
| 00:09:46,000 | 00:09:47,000 | 你反而更應該要這樣做 |
| 00:09:47,000 | 00:09:49,000 | 做得更清楚一點 |
| 00:09:49,000 | 00:09:50,000 | 那你一下子一直強調說 |
| 00:09:50,000 | 00:09:51,000 | 這個都是安全的 |
| 00:09:51,000 | 00:09:52,000 | 沒有用嘛 |
| 00:09:52,000 | 00:09:54,000 | 因為百姓不一定可以相信 |
| 00:09:54,000 | 00:09:55,000 | 他不一定會覺得說 |
| 00:09:55,000 | 00:09:57,000 | 這個東西對他來講安心 |
| 00:09:57,000 | 00:09:59,000 | 我想要跟你講的是這個 |
| 00:09:59,000 | 00:10:01,000 | 對因為我們下架的 |
| 00:10:01,000 | 00:10:03,000 | 我們之前都已經先下架 |
| 00:10:03,000 | 00:10:04,000 | 先封城 |
| 00:10:04,000 | 00:10:05,000 | 簡單來講就是 |
| 00:10:05,000 | 00:10:07,000 | 只有這個合格的才可以上架 |
| 00:10:07,000 | 00:10:08,000 | 你重新上架的配套 |
| 00:10:08,000 | 00:10:11,000 | 希望讓百姓更清楚知道 |
| 00:10:11,000 | 00:10:13,000 | 這部分你們是不是可以 |
| 00:10:13,000 | 00:10:15,000 | 而且說實在今天我們 |
| 00:10:15,000 | 00:10:17,000 | 的臨時動議都跨黨派 |
| 00:10:17,000 | 00:10:18,000 | 民進黨也提了 |
| 00:10:18,000 | 00:10:20,000 | 就是說在沒有查明真相之前 |
| 00:10:20,000 | 00:10:21,000 | 百姓沒有安心之前 |
| 00:10:21,000 | 00:10:22,000 | 其實你是不能上架 |
| 00:10:22,000 | 00:10:24,000 | 最重要的原因就是在這裡 |
| 00:10:24,000 | 00:10:26,000 | 就是百姓沒有辦法安心 |
| 00:10:26,000 | 00:10:28,000 | 所以這就是 |
| 00:10:28,000 | 00:10:30,000 | 我們擔心的事情 |
| 00:10:30,000 | 00:10:32,000 | 更離譜的事情是在污染源 |
| 00:10:32,000 | 00:10:34,000 | 其實完全你還是沒有講得很清楚 |
| 00:10:34,000 | 00:10:36,000 | 說到底釐清了沒 |
| 00:10:36,000 | 00:10:37,000 | 那問題的批次 |
| 00:10:37,000 | 00:10:39,000 | 尚未完全掌握的情況之下 |
| 00:10:39,000 | 00:10:40,000 | 那最近宜蘭縣政府 |
| 00:10:40,000 | 00:10:43,000 | 又有發現新的問題的批號 |
| 00:10:43,000 | 00:10:44,000 | 那這個時候 |
| 00:10:44,000 | 00:10:46,000 | 這個所謂行政院還有辦法 |
| 00:10:46,000 | 00:10:47,000 | 行政院長還有辦法把 |
| 00:10:47,000 | 00:10:49,000 | 這個時間點把責任推到地方 |
| 00:10:49,000 | 00:10:51,000 | 然後一下子再批評說 |
| 00:10:51,000 | 00:10:53,000 | 地方稽查不力 |
| 00:10:53,000 | 00:10:55,000 | 那我們就是想要來檢驗一下 |
| 00:10:55,000 | 00:10:56,000 | 那好啊那中央政府的 |
| 00:10:56,000 | 00:10:57,000 | 那中央政府的參與算 |
| 00:10:57,000 | 00:10:58,000 | 到底怎麼花的喔 |
| 00:10:58,000 | 00:10:59,000 | 我想在這裡跟大家講喔 |
| 00:10:59,000 | 00:11:01,000 | 卓榮泰院長上任後 |
| 00:11:01,000 | 00:11:03,000 | 核定的第一份公文啊 |
| 00:11:03,000 | 00:11:07,000 | 就是74億的食品安全建設計畫 |
| 00:11:07,000 | 00:11:09,000 | 到115年 |
| 00:11:09,000 | 00:11:12,000 | 這個食藥署總稅出約67億 |
| 00:11:12,000 | 00:11:15,000 | 其中又編列8億元的 |
| 00:11:15,000 | 00:11:18,000 | 辦理食安食品安全的建設 |
| 00:11:18,000 | 00:11:20,000 | 那這8億元裡面咧 |
| 00:11:20,000 | 00:11:23,000 | 有7.88億元是 |
| 00:11:23,000 | 00:11:25,000 | 設備跟投資 |
| 00:11:25,000 | 00:11:28,000 | 98.5%主要用在哪裡 |
| 00:11:28,000 | 00:11:31,000 | 主要用在食堰大樓的外牆 |
| 00:11:31,000 | 00:11:34,000 | 機電室內裝修跟整建工程 |
| 00:11:34,000 | 00:11:36,000 | 那真正編列在業務費的 |
| 00:11:36,000 | 00:11:37,000 | 只有1200萬 |
| 00:11:37,000 | 00:11:39,000 | 所以我們看到這究竟是 |
| 00:11:39,000 | 00:11:40,000 | 食品安全建設計畫 |
| 00:11:40,000 | 00:11:42,000 | 還是食安大樓的裝修計畫 |
| 00:11:42,000 | 00:11:44,000 | 我想人民看到這個配置 |
| 00:11:44,000 | 00:11:46,000 | 就會讓人家想到當初什麼 |
| 00:11:46,000 | 00:11:48,000 | 數位發展部花大錢 |
| 00:11:48,000 | 00:11:50,000 | 在裝修辦公室的即視感 |
| 00:11:50,000 | 00:11:53,000 | 那更讓人家值得懷疑的事情喔 |
| 00:11:53,000 | 00:11:55,000 | 這項食品安全計畫 |
| 00:11:55,000 | 00:11:57,000 | 從106年的一路 |
| 00:11:57,000 | 00:11:59,000 | 執行到120年民國 |
| 00:11:59,000 | 00:12:01,000 | 前後長達15年 |
| 00:12:01,000 | 00:12:03,000 | 那目前已經投入了52億 |
| 00:12:03,000 | 00:12:05,000 | 未來還要再投入14億 |
| 00:12:05,000 | 00:12:07,000 | 光是今年就有約6.5億元 |
| 00:12:07,000 | 00:12:10,000 | 用在機電、景觀跟室內裝修 |
| 00:12:10,000 | 00:12:12,000 | 那九成以上的經費 |
| 00:12:12,000 | 00:12:14,000 | 都放在硬體工程了 |
| 00:12:14,000 | 00:12:17,000 | 這是在修大樓還是在裝修原民園 |
| 00:12:17,000 | 00:12:19,000 | 那另外食藥署 |
| 00:12:19,000 | 00:12:20,000 | 今年的預算中 |
| 00:12:20,000 | 00:12:22,000 | 光是煤炫費就1500萬 |
| 00:12:22,000 | 00:12:25,000 | 那食品管理工作的分支計畫 |
| 00:12:25,000 | 00:12:26,000 | 叫食品檢驗 |
| 00:12:26,000 | 00:12:29,000 | 只編列了1262.5萬 |
| 00:12:29,000 | 00:12:32,000 | 然後食品安全風險管理 |
| 00:12:32,000 | 00:12:34,000 | 更只有276.1萬 |
| 00:12:34,000 | 00:12:37,000 | 這兩者加起來跟煤炫費差不多 |
| 00:12:37,000 | 00:12:39,000 | 而且尾半費也是年年增加 |
| 00:12:39,000 | 00:12:42,000 | 113年的11億8000萬 |
| 00:12:42,000 | 00:12:45,000 | 到114年的14億 |
| 00:12:45,000 | 00:12:48,000 | 今年暴增一倍到29.95億 |
| 00:12:48,000 | 00:12:51,000 | 好所以這讓人家看到就是說 |
| 00:12:51,000 | 00:12:54,000 | 這個錢是不是都花在這個宣傳和外包上面 |
| 00:12:54,000 | 00:12:56,000 | 真正核心的工作經費 |
| 00:12:56,000 | 00:12:57,000 | 卻只編了一點點 |
| 00:12:57,000 | 00:12:59,000 | 你覺得這樣合理嗎 |
| 00:12:59,000 | 00:13:00,000 | 呃跟委員說明 |
| 00:13:00,000 | 00:13:02,000 | 因為這個不是裝修 |
| 00:13:02,000 | 00:13:04,000 | 這個是一個新建的大樓 |
| 00:13:04,000 | 00:13:06,000 | 它還在這個經營中 |
| 00:13:06,000 | 00:13:07,000 | 那你們建了多久了 |
| 00:13:07,000 | 00:13:10,000 | 預計是在明年會完工 |
| 00:13:10,000 | 00:13:11,000 | 總共建了多久了 |
| 00:13:11,000 | 00:13:12,000 | 你們這個花了多久的時間 |
| 00:13:12,000 | 00:13:16,000 | 應該是4、5年了啦 |
| 00:13:16,000 | 00:13:18,000 | 3年、4年 |
| 00:13:18,000 | 00:13:20,000 | 就是它是一個新的 |
| 00:13:20,000 | 00:13:22,000 | 你看這整個食安大樓 |
| 00:13:22,000 | 00:13:25,000 | 其實基本上前後用一用 |
| 00:13:25,000 | 00:13:27,000 | 10年燒了52億 |
| 00:13:27,000 | 00:13:31,000 | 然後現在目前為止的檢驗量能都還掛零 |
| 00:13:32,000 | 00:13:35,000 | 這個新的大樓未來有這個 |
| 00:13:35,000 | 00:13:37,000 | 大樓的實驗室去擴充 |
| 00:13:37,000 | 00:13:39,000 | 對但是你搞了這麼久還掛零嘛 |
| 00:13:39,000 | 00:13:40,000 | 檢驗量能掛零嘛 |
| 00:13:40,000 | 00:13:41,000 | 因為它還沒有完工 |
| 00:13:41,000 | 00:13:43,000 | 部長大樓當然可以蓋 |
| 00:13:43,000 | 00:13:44,000 | 實驗設備也必須更新 |
| 00:13:44,000 | 00:13:46,000 | 但是這個計畫做了15年 |
| 00:13:46,000 | 00:13:47,000 | 花了數十億 |
| 00:13:47,000 | 00:13:50,000 | 那發生了重大食安事件之後 |
| 00:13:50,000 | 00:13:53,000 | 中央到目前為止讓人們感受的就是 |
| 00:13:53,000 | 00:13:55,000 | 沒有辦法及時掌握問題批次 |
| 00:13:55,000 | 00:13:56,000 | 追查污染源 |
| 00:13:56,000 | 00:14:00,000 | 甚至等了24天才要成立獨立的調查小組 |
| 00:14:00,000 | 00:14:02,000 | 所以我們當然懷疑說你這些錢 |
| 00:14:02,000 | 00:14:05,000 | 有沒有真正轉化成食品安全管理的能量 |
| 00:14:05,000 | 00:14:07,000 | 不然怎麼會一路以來 |
| 00:14:07,000 | 00:14:09,000 | 從過去的這個蘇丹紅 |
| 00:14:09,000 | 00:14:12,000 | 然後臭雞蛋到現在這個致癌友 |
| 00:14:12,000 | 00:14:16,000 | 而且當年連民進黨的彰花貫縣長都說 |
| 00:14:16,000 | 00:14:18,000 | 只要2億加一就可以有一棟 |
| 00:14:18,000 | 00:14:20,000 | 食安大樓可以馬上啟用 |
| 00:14:20,000 | 00:14:22,000 | 所以你這棟搞到現在 |
| 00:14:22,000 | 00:14:25,000 | 這個計畫從2017年的前瞻預算到現在 |
| 00:14:25,000 | 00:14:26,000 | 燒了十年 |
| 00:14:26,000 | 00:14:31,000 | 那左洪泰上任又喊出編列74億大張旗鼓 |
| 00:14:31,000 | 00:14:32,000 | 那到現在燒了52億 |
| 00:14:32,000 | 00:14:36,000 | 整個計畫從2017年到現在十年了 |
| 00:14:36,000 | 00:14:38,000 | 結果都沒有啟用 |
| 00:14:38,000 | 00:14:40,000 | 檢驗量能又是零 |
| 00:14:40,000 | 00:14:42,000 | 我覺得這樣子的配置 |
| 00:14:42,000 | 00:14:44,000 | 真的是讓人很擔憂啊 |
| 00:14:44,000 | 00:14:46,000 | 然後發生事情之後就開始 |
| 00:14:46,000 | 00:14:48,000 | 好像地方中央地方在推脫 |
| 00:14:48,000 | 00:14:50,000 | 所以我要做一個結語啊 |
| 00:14:50,000 | 00:14:51,000 | 我時間到了 |
| 00:14:51,000 | 00:14:54,000 | 一棟食安大樓可以從2017年蓋到現在 |
| 00:14:54,000 | 00:14:55,000 | 還沒有完工 |
| 00:14:55,000 | 00:14:57,000 | 前前後後要燒掉70億 |
| 00:14:57,000 | 00:14:59,000 | 現在檢驗量能增加多少 |
| 00:14:59,000 | 00:15:00,000 | 是零 |
| 00:15:00,000 | 00:15:02,000 | 是因為根本還沒有啟用 |
| 00:15:02,000 | 00:15:04,000 | 那我們這幾年大家看到什麼 |
| 00:15:04,000 | 00:15:05,000 | 從113年 |
| 00:15:05,000 | 00:15:08,000 | 超過28萬公斤的蘇丹紅色素的辣椒粉 |
| 00:15:09,000 | 00:15:11,000 | 然後食藥署的邊境查驗 |
| 00:15:11,000 | 00:15:13,000 | 一批都沒有攔下來 |
| 00:15:13,000 | 00:15:14,000 | 最近怎麼報的 |
| 00:15:14,000 | 00:15:16,000 | 也不是食藥署查到的 |
| 00:15:16,000 | 00:15:18,000 | 是民眾檢舉才報的 |
| 00:15:18,000 | 00:15:21,000 | 還是所謂的廠商自律找到的 |
| 00:15:21,000 | 00:15:24,000 | 然後食安管理我們以為政府會痛定食痛 |
| 00:15:24,000 | 00:15:26,000 | 但是民黨最喜歡說的 |
| 00:15:26,000 | 00:15:28,000 | 要錢給錢要人給人 |
| 00:15:28,000 | 00:15:30,000 | 那大手一筆編78億的食安管理預算 |
| 00:15:30,000 | 00:15:31,000 | 好喔 |
| 00:15:31,000 | 00:15:34,000 | 光是113年食安管理預算也編了78億 |
| 00:15:34,000 | 00:15:36,000 | 但是我們到底換到了什麼 |
| 00:15:36,000 | 00:15:38,000 | 真的有做到讓人民安心嗎 |
| 00:15:38,000 | 00:15:41,000 | 然後換了一套食品雲 |
| 00:15:41,000 | 00:15:45,000 | 審計部也說效益沒有辦法充分發揮 |
| 00:15:45,000 | 00:15:48,000 | 換到非登不可業者登錄 |
| 00:15:48,000 | 00:15:51,000 | 該申報的一萬多家納管有落差 |
| 00:15:51,000 | 00:15:54,000 | 然後換到市售食品的後市場稽查 |
| 00:15:54,000 | 00:15:56,000 | 連年做 |
| 00:15:56,000 | 00:15:59,000 | 但是業者違規卻連年降不下來 |
| 00:15:59,000 | 00:16:01,000 | 三套系統 |
| 00:16:01,000 | 00:16:03,000 | 三個花了錢沒效果 |
| 00:16:03,000 | 00:16:04,000 | 而且不是今年才被點了 |
| 00:16:04,000 | 00:16:06,000 | 是年年被點年年沒有改 |
| 00:16:06,000 | 00:16:09,000 | 所以我在這裡要充分表達人民 |
| 00:16:09,000 | 00:16:11,000 | 對於政府在食安的不滿 |
| 00:16:11,000 | 00:16:13,000 | 食安也不是預算數字的競賽 |
| 00:16:13,000 | 00:16:16,000 | 是人民要吃下肚子的東西 |
| 00:16:16,000 | 00:16:17,000 | 要讓人民安心 |
| 00:16:17,000 | 00:16:20,000 | 那錢逐年的增加破口照樣的出 |
| 00:16:20,000 | 00:16:22,000 | 地方檢驗出來就開始怪地方說 |
| 00:16:22,000 | 00:16:23,000 | 為什麼要搶快 |
| 00:16:23,000 | 00:16:25,000 | 我想這行政院長的態度 |
| 00:16:25,000 | 00:16:29,000 | 可以看得出來現在執政黨的傲慢和無能 |
| 00:16:29,000 | 00:16:30,000 | 謝謝 |
| 00:16:30,000 | 00:16:32,000 | 跟委員簡單說明一下 |
| 00:16:32,000 | 00:16:35,000 | 第一個這個食安大樓當然還沒有完工 |
| 00:16:35,000 | 00:16:37,000 | 我們預計是明年他會完成 |
| 00:16:37,000 | 00:16:39,000 | 那整個檢驗量能也會擴大 |
| 00:16:39,000 | 00:16:42,000 | 但是在這段期間我們的檢驗室 |
| 00:16:42,000 | 00:16:43,000 | 也是持續在運作 |
| 00:16:43,000 | 00:16:46,000 | 所以這一次有這麼多的這個檢體 |
| 00:16:46,000 | 00:16:49,000 | 很多是我們的目前的實驗室在驗的 |
| 00:16:49,000 | 00:16:52,000 | 那另外這個檢驗的部分 |
| 00:16:52,000 | 00:16:55,000 | 我們也分邊境還有各個分區業務組 |
| 00:16:55,000 | 00:16:57,000 | 所以這個算是我們看得到 |
| 00:16:57,000 | 00:17:00,000 | 所以要把這個東西都念出來給大家 |
| 00:17:00,000 | 00:17:01,000 | 我想這個社會自由公民 |
| 00:17:01,000 | 00:17:04,000 | 另外那個調查小組其實是做最後確認 |
| 00:17:04,000 | 00:17:07,000 | 我們之前就已經進行調查了 |
| 00:17:07,000 | 00:17:10,000 | 那昨天這個是進場去做最後的確認 |
| 00:17:10,000 | 00:17:13,000 | 所以到現在讓人家很擔心的就是 |
| 00:17:13,000 | 00:17:14,000 | 這個最後確認的原因 |
| 00:17:14,000 | 00:17:15,000 | 更新到底在哪裡 |
| 00:17:15,000 | 00:17:18,000 | 已經還沒有辦法完成的確定 |
| 00:17:18,000 | 00:17:21,000 | 報告的事我們大概就是已經知道的 |
| 00:17:21,000 | 00:17:23,000 | 當然最後的報告的撰寫 |
| 00:17:23,000 | 00:17:25,000 | 我們在這個禮拜會完成 |
| 00:17:25,000 | 00:17:28,000 | 不過目前我們了解的大概就是他的 |
| 00:17:28,000 | 00:17:31,000 | 原料的品質不佳加上製程上 |
| 00:17:31,000 | 00:17:33,000 | 不僅沒有進行調整 |
| 00:17:33,000 | 00:17:36,000 | 我想縱然再多的這種解釋 |
| 00:17:36,000 | 00:17:38,000 | 食品安全就是要讓人民安心 |
| 00:17:38,000 | 00:17:40,000 | 這一段時間的處理下來 |
| 00:17:40,000 | 00:17:42,000 | 我想我沒有看到人民更加安心 |
| 00:17:42,000 | 00:17:44,000 | 只看到人民更加憤怒謝謝 |
| 00:17:44,000 | 00:17:46,000 | 我們一定確保這個食安 |
| 00:17:46,000 | 00:17:47,000 | 所以這個在上架 |
| 00:17:47,000 | 00:17:48,000 | 目前我們重新上架的 |
| 00:17:48,000 | 00:17:51,000 | 都是我們檢驗過的謝謝 |