iVOD / 170675
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邱鎮軍 @
| Start Time | End Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00:00,000 | 00:00:08,000 | 好 謝謝主席 我們請食藥署署長 |
| 00:00:08,000 | 00:00:10,000 | 請加治綱署長 |
| 00:00:15,000 | 00:00:16,000 | 委員好 |
| 00:00:16,000 | 00:00:20,000 | 署長好 我昨天看到你們最新的說法 |
| 00:00:20,000 | 00:00:22,000 | 這是中原遊子的這個食安事件 |
| 00:00:22,000 | 00:00:26,000 | 是中原去年調高大豆的這個 |
| 00:00:26,000 | 00:00:30,000 | 這個熱損率還有製程管品管有問題 |
| 00:00:30,000 | 00:00:32,000 | 所以造成今年4到6月的 |
| 00:00:32,000 | 00:00:36,000 | 有7批的有品的BAP的超標 |
| 00:00:36,000 | 00:00:40,000 | 就是說他原本的熱損率是0.5% |
| 00:00:40,000 | 00:00:41,000 | 他們之前買 |
| 00:00:41,000 | 00:00:46,000 | 那去年要調到這個5%才也就近了 |
| 00:00:46,000 | 00:00:49,000 | 他去年從去年就開始調到5% |
| 00:00:49,000 | 00:00:50,000 | 是這樣嗎 |
| 00:00:50,000 | 00:00:52,000 | 這邊跟委員報告 |
| 00:00:52,000 | 00:00:56,000 | 他們公司分上半年下半年 |
| 00:00:56,000 | 00:01:00,000 | 大概在3月以前的是美國豆 |
| 00:01:00,000 | 00:01:01,000 | 他是去年什麼時候 |
| 00:01:01,000 | 00:01:03,000 | 美國豆下半年的時候 |
| 00:01:03,000 | 00:01:05,000 | 在4月份接下來 |
| 00:01:05,000 | 00:01:08,000 | 我的意思是說他從0.5調到5% |
| 00:01:08,000 | 00:01:09,000 | 是去年才調的嗎 |
| 00:01:09,000 | 00:01:11,000 | 這是在114年的6月4日 |
| 00:01:11,000 | 00:01:13,000 | 好 去年進口這個巴西的大豆 |
| 00:01:13,000 | 00:01:16,000 | 時間集中在3月到9月嘛 對不對 |
| 00:01:16,000 | 00:01:17,000 | 對 |
| 00:01:17,000 | 00:01:18,000 | 是這樣嘛 |
| 00:01:18,000 | 00:01:20,000 | 然後有將近87萬9千公噸 |
| 00:01:20,000 | 00:01:23,000 | 保守估計可以做成10萬噸的沙拉油 |
| 00:01:23,000 | 00:01:29,000 | 那以家庭用的標準瓶的600ml的瓶子來算的話 |
| 00:01:29,000 | 00:01:31,000 | 可以裝1.8億瓶 |
| 00:01:31,000 | 00:01:33,000 | 你們怎麼有辦法 |
| 00:01:33,000 | 00:01:34,000 | 在現在這個時候 |
| 00:01:34,000 | 00:01:37,000 | 你還可以老神再宣布上架呢 |
| 00:01:37,000 | 00:01:39,000 | 跟委員報告 |
| 00:01:39,000 | 00:01:43,000 | 現在4到6月的其實他生產批次是很確定的 |
| 00:01:43,000 | 00:01:46,000 | 從4月1號到6月30號 |
| 00:01:46,000 | 00:01:48,000 | 所以你現在覺得他現在生產沒有問題 |
| 00:01:48,000 | 00:01:50,000 | 我的意思是說現在我們看到的 |
| 00:01:50,000 | 00:01:54,000 | 我跟你們講現在進口大豆是不是分兩種 |
| 00:01:54,000 | 00:01:56,000 | 就是我們防疫署是這個 |
| 00:01:56,000 | 00:02:00,000 | 管理這個進口農藥有沒有病蟲害 |
| 00:02:00,000 | 00:02:03,000 | 那食藥署是食品用途的大豆 |
| 00:02:03,000 | 00:02:08,000 | 抽驗也是驗重金屬或農藥殘留容許 |
| 00:02:08,000 | 00:02:10,000 | 那除了這些檢疫證明之外 |
| 00:02:10,000 | 00:02:13,000 | 有要求我們抽口國要提供大豆 |
| 00:02:13,000 | 00:02:16,000 | 熱損率證明之類的文件嗎 |
| 00:02:18,000 | 00:02:20,000 | 這個部分因為現在 |
| 00:02:20,000 | 00:02:22,000 | 那個節點上面呢 |
| 00:02:22,000 | 00:02:27,000 | 我們是訂兩PPB的一個標準的油脂 |
| 00:02:27,000 | 00:02:32,000 | 你們知道黃豆在產地會因為乾燥或儲存不當 |
| 00:02:32,000 | 00:02:35,000 | 而產生熱損傷的這樣的加工瑕疵 |
| 00:02:35,000 | 00:02:37,000 | 那為什麼沒有進一步去要求 |
| 00:02:37,000 | 00:02:39,000 | 我想謝謝委員的指正 |
| 00:02:39,000 | 00:02:41,000 | 那這部分其實很重要的節點 |
| 00:02:41,000 | 00:02:43,000 | 在這一次沒有嘛 |
| 00:02:43,000 | 00:02:45,000 | 所以我們還是一樣 |
| 00:02:45,000 | 00:02:47,000 | 又是要靠我們業者的自律心 |
| 00:02:47,000 | 00:02:49,000 | 來保障我們的食安 |
| 00:02:49,000 | 00:02:52,000 | 就像你們現在要修的法一樣 |
| 00:02:52,000 | 00:02:54,000 | 一樣沒有做到主動通報 |
| 00:02:54,000 | 00:02:56,000 | 沒有做到連線啊 |
| 00:02:56,000 | 00:03:00,000 | 對不對你還是讓這個業者自己主動去通報 |
| 00:03:00,000 | 00:03:02,000 | 這樣有什麼用呢 |
| 00:03:02,000 | 00:03:04,000 | 不是回到原點 |
| 00:03:04,000 | 00:03:07,000 | 這個入法之後的所謂的不是主動是強制 |
| 00:03:07,000 | 00:03:09,000 | 強制的通報的概念 |
| 00:03:09,000 | 00:03:12,000 | 其實讓這個預警點能夠拉前 |
| 00:03:12,000 | 00:03:15,000 | 你們的食品運作是要幹嘛的 |
| 00:03:15,000 | 00:03:20,000 | 你不能跟這些檢驗的單位來做連線嗎 |
| 00:03:20,000 | 00:03:22,000 | 不能主動他主動跳提示嗎 |
| 00:03:22,000 | 00:03:24,000 | 這邊跟委員報告 |
| 00:03:24,000 | 00:03:27,000 | 因為之前的評估當然是有提到相關的議題 |
| 00:03:27,000 | 00:03:29,000 | 那也牽涉到多方的意見 |
| 00:03:29,000 | 00:03:33,000 | 所以在13年 |
| 00:03:33,000 | 00:03:35,000 | 13年的期間 |
| 00:03:35,000 | 00:03:37,000 | 我們針對蘇丹紅事件的時候 |
| 00:03:37,000 | 00:03:39,000 | 有相關的提案之後 |
| 00:03:39,000 | 00:03:41,000 | 在5月6月同時 |
| 00:03:41,000 | 00:03:43,000 | 講了很多次啊 |
| 00:03:43,000 | 00:03:45,000 | 台中市政府之前也反應了 |
| 00:03:45,000 | 00:03:48,000 | 這反應的部分我們針對這議題 |
| 00:03:48,000 | 00:03:51,000 | 有經過了專家學者以及業者 |
| 00:03:51,000 | 00:03:54,000 | 以及我們的各縣市的申請 |
| 00:03:54,000 | 00:03:56,000 | 我們現在講結果啦 |
| 00:03:56,000 | 00:03:57,000 | 你要怎麼做啦 |
| 00:03:57,000 | 00:03:59,000 | 我覺得這個點是非常重要的 |
| 00:03:59,000 | 00:04:03,000 | 我們在所謂關鍵的HACCP的節點裡面 |
| 00:04:03,000 | 00:04:05,000 | 有沒有辦法把它入法 |
| 00:04:05,000 | 00:04:06,000 | 這一次的研議裡面 |
| 00:04:06,000 | 00:04:10,000 | 我想也尊重整個委員以及各方的意見裡面 |
| 00:04:10,000 | 00:04:12,000 | 有把這個部分納入裡面的考量 |
| 00:04:12,000 | 00:04:14,000 | 共同來研議它的可行性 |
| 00:04:14,000 | 00:04:16,000 | 好那現在我們就朝這個方向來規劃 |
| 00:04:16,000 | 00:04:18,000 | 我們就朝這個方向來努力啦 |
| 00:04:18,000 | 00:04:20,000 | 那現在今年1到6月 |
| 00:04:20,000 | 00:04:23,000 | 我看到基改大豆進口總量 |
| 00:04:23,000 | 00:04:29,000 | 光務署給我的資料是127萬9714公噸 |
| 00:04:29,000 | 00:04:31,000 | 那同一期間同一貨品 |
| 00:04:32,000 | 00:04:39,000 | 食藥署受理抱怨的這個進度是127萬8061公噸 |
| 00:04:39,000 | 00:04:41,000 | 差了1653噸 |
| 00:04:41,000 | 00:04:42,000 | 哪裡去啦 |
| 00:04:42,000 | 00:04:44,000 | 為什麼進來那麼多 |
| 00:04:44,000 | 00:04:50,000 | 你們檢驗才這個差距差了1600多噸 |
| 00:04:50,000 | 00:04:51,000 | 現在哪一區 |
| 00:04:51,000 | 00:04:55,000 | 我們邊境的抽驗叫做Border Protection Intelligence |
| 00:04:55,000 | 00:04:59,000 | 按照它的風險等級做抽驗的一個基礎 |
| 00:04:59,000 | 00:05:01,000 | 這邊是跟委員特別做一些報告 |
| 00:05:01,000 | 00:05:03,000 | 所以並不是每一批 |
| 00:05:03,000 | 00:05:04,000 | 而是抽批的 |
| 00:05:04,000 | 00:05:06,000 | 按照風險跟檢出的情形 |
| 00:05:06,000 | 00:05:09,000 | 黃豆的風險點在哪裡 |
| 00:05:09,000 | 00:05:12,000 | 一般特別會注意的是我們的植種金屬 |
| 00:05:12,000 | 00:05:14,000 | 黃麴毒素等等 |
| 00:05:14,000 | 00:05:16,000 | 那過去對於我們扁平皮 |
| 00:05:16,000 | 00:05:18,000 | 不是我在說你受理抱怨的進度 |
| 00:05:18,000 | 00:05:20,000 | 我現在講總重量 |
| 00:05:20,000 | 00:05:24,000 | 我不是問你驗幾批 |
| 00:05:24,000 | 00:05:25,000 | 報告報告委員 |
| 00:05:25,000 | 00:05:26,000 | 報告報告委員 |
| 00:05:26,000 | 00:05:29,000 | 我們的資料受理的根儀的數字是 |
| 00:05:29,000 | 00:05:33,000 | 都是1278061 |
| 00:05:33,000 | 00:05:35,000 | 對關務署不會騙人吧 |
| 00:05:35,000 | 00:05:36,000 | 我的資料也是喔 |
| 00:05:36,000 | 00:05:37,000 | 關務署給我的喔 |
| 00:05:37,000 | 00:05:38,000 | 相近的 |
| 00:05:38,000 | 00:05:39,000 | 這我們是相近的 |
| 00:05:39,000 | 00:05:42,000 | 差了1653公噸 |
| 00:05:42,000 | 00:05:43,000 | 叫做相近 |
| 00:05:43,000 | 00:05:45,000 | 那個是統計期間我們受理 |
| 00:05:45,000 | 00:05:47,000 | 一個統計期間叫受理期間 |
| 00:05:47,000 | 00:05:49,000 | 這個是很將近的 |
| 00:05:49,000 | 00:05:50,000 | 為什麼叫將近 |
| 00:05:50,000 | 00:05:52,000 | 1000多公噸它會消失 |
| 00:05:53,000 | 00:05:54,000 | 我講這個 |
| 00:05:54,000 | 00:05:57,000 | 我跟你講你們到現在數字都說不清楚 |
| 00:05:57,000 | 00:05:59,000 | 連這麼基礎的都沒有辦法做到 |
| 00:05:59,000 | 00:06:00,000 | 都會有誤差 |
| 00:06:00,000 | 00:06:03,000 | 關務署跟你們報官進來的 |
| 00:06:03,000 | 00:06:06,000 | 跟你們查驗的這個數字都會有差 |
| 00:06:06,000 | 00:06:07,000 | 難怪你們講不清楚 |
| 00:06:07,000 | 00:06:09,000 | 一個是抱怨的 |
| 00:06:09,000 | 00:06:10,000 | 一個是出關的 |
| 00:06:10,000 | 00:06:12,000 | 兩個時間是有差距的 |
| 00:06:12,000 | 00:06:13,000 | 會有差距的 |
| 00:06:13,000 | 00:06:14,000 | 同一批 |
| 00:06:14,000 | 00:06:16,000 | 這個時間點上面 |
| 00:06:16,000 | 00:06:18,000 | 你不要再跟我拗時間點 |
| 00:06:18,000 | 00:06:20,000 | 我們會去把我們所有的 |
| 00:06:20,000 | 00:06:21,000 | 對不對 |
| 00:06:21,000 | 00:06:22,000 | 今年2月到6月 |
| 00:06:22,000 | 00:06:23,000 | 好再問你 |
| 00:06:23,000 | 00:06:24,000 | 今年2月到6月 |
| 00:06:24,000 | 00:06:25,000 | 台灣總共從巴西進口 |
| 00:06:25,000 | 00:06:27,000 | 大概70萬噸的大豆 |
| 00:06:27,000 | 00:06:30,000 | 那總報單117批 |
| 00:06:30,000 | 00:06:31,000 | 2到5月 |
| 00:06:31,000 | 00:06:33,000 | 巴西進口大概60萬噸 |
| 00:06:33,000 | 00:06:35,000 | 進口商有15家 |
| 00:06:35,000 | 00:06:36,000 | 這60萬公噸 |
| 00:06:36,000 | 00:06:38,000 | 其中有20萬公噸 |
| 00:06:38,000 | 00:06:40,000 | 直接賣給下一個22家廠商 |
| 00:06:40,000 | 00:06:43,000 | 31萬噸是8大廠同時進口 |
| 00:06:43,000 | 00:06:45,000 | 60家工廠的業者 |
| 00:06:45,000 | 00:06:46,000 | 那自己留著 |
| 00:06:46,000 | 00:06:48,000 | 就包含已經知道的大統一 |
| 00:06:48,000 | 00:06:50,000 | 大臣還有我們扶壽中聯 |
| 00:06:50,000 | 00:06:52,000 | 那剩下9萬都哪裡去 |
| 00:06:52,000 | 00:06:54,000 | 我想我們今天報告數據 |
| 00:06:54,000 | 00:06:56,000 | 跟我們收到的是 |
| 00:06:56,000 | 00:06:59,000 | 70萬4千5百8十二噸 |
| 00:06:59,000 | 00:07:01,000 | 你們的數據出來都是多數 |
| 00:07:01,000 | 00:07:04,000 | 57萬3千4百7十八公噸 |
| 00:07:04,000 | 00:07:05,000 | 是來自於美國的 |
| 00:07:05,000 | 00:07:07,000 | 那我們確實收到數據是這樣 |
| 00:07:07,000 | 00:07:09,000 | 我們會後再把相關的 |
| 00:07:09,000 | 00:07:11,000 | 完整的數據跟委員做 |
| 00:07:11,000 | 00:07:12,000 | 對你們的數據 |
| 00:07:12,000 | 00:07:13,000 | 我跟你講 |
| 00:07:13,000 | 00:07:14,000 | 對你的數據是相近的 |
| 00:07:14,000 | 00:07:15,000 | 完全錯不到 |
| 00:07:15,000 | 00:07:16,000 | 中聯有指批號 |
| 00:07:16,000 | 00:07:19,000 | 315-115-0404這一批 |
| 00:07:19,000 | 00:07:21,000 | 在今年4月4號生產 |
| 00:07:21,000 | 00:07:23,000 | 那它的原料是在 |
| 00:07:23,000 | 00:07:24,000 | 今年3月31號進口 |
| 00:07:24,000 | 00:07:26,000 | 那報驗號是 |
| 00:07:26,000 | 00:07:31,000 | IFK號15180009702 |
| 00:07:31,000 | 00:07:35,000 | 報單號碼是DA151021379 |
| 00:07:35,000 | 00:07:36,000 | 那後來發現 |
| 00:07:36,000 | 00:07:38,000 | 4月1號又有問題了 |
| 00:07:38,000 | 00:07:40,000 | 那4月1號的豆子哪裡來的 |
| 00:07:41,000 | 00:07:43,000 | 4月1號我們後來確定 |
| 00:07:43,000 | 00:07:44,000 | 它是哪一批 |
| 00:07:44,000 | 00:07:46,000 | 就是往前一批的美國豆 |
| 00:07:46,000 | 00:07:47,000 | 不是4月4號這一批的 |
| 00:07:47,000 | 00:07:49,000 | 它的傳批是 |
| 00:07:49,000 | 00:07:51,000 | 121-ET |
| 00:07:51,000 | 00:07:54,000 | 115年1月25號進來的豆子 |
| 00:07:54,000 | 00:07:55,000 | 所以是在美國豆 |
| 00:07:55,000 | 00:07:57,000 | 後來我們也確實的檢驗 |
| 00:07:57,000 | 00:07:59,000 | 它是批BAP是沒有驗出來的 |
| 00:07:59,000 | 00:08:01,000 | 這邊我們都已經有公告了 |
| 00:08:01,000 | 00:08:02,000 | 好 我再問你 |
| 00:08:02,000 | 00:08:04,000 | 中聯的賣方是國際大糧商 |
| 00:08:04,000 | 00:08:06,000 | 這個加級嘛 |
| 00:08:06,000 | 00:08:09,000 | 從巴西商托斯港裝貨 |
| 00:08:09,000 | 00:08:11,000 | 運到台中港輸入 |
| 00:08:11,000 | 00:08:14,000 | 那這批貨分6筆報關 |
| 00:08:14,000 | 00:08:16,000 | 總共大概5.46萬公噸 |
| 00:08:16,000 | 00:08:18,000 | 全部進到中聯油脂 |
| 00:08:18,000 | 00:08:20,000 | 那6張報驗單 |
| 00:08:20,000 | 00:08:22,000 | 做成10批大豆沙拉油 |
| 00:08:22,000 | 00:08:26,000 | 總共是12930公噸 |
| 00:08:26,000 | 00:08:27,000 | 但很奇怪的是 |
| 00:08:27,000 | 00:08:30,000 | 這10批的批號開頭 |
| 00:08:30,000 | 00:08:31,000 | 看起來是不同油槽 |
| 00:08:31,000 | 00:08:34,000 | 但是有5批本篇筆鈔標 |
| 00:08:34,000 | 00:08:36,000 | 這10批當中的第一批 |
| 00:08:36,000 | 00:08:37,000 | 也就是我們這一次 |
| 00:08:37,000 | 00:08:38,000 | 被驗出來的 |
| 00:08:38,000 | 00:08:40,000 | 引爆食安的這一批油的問題 |
| 00:08:40,000 | 00:08:42,000 | 10批裡面有5批有問題 |
| 00:08:42,000 | 00:08:45,000 | 2到6月進了70萬公噸 |
| 00:08:45,000 | 00:08:47,000 | 你們只抓了大概 |
| 00:08:47,000 | 00:08:49,000 | 其中的5萬噸來查 |
| 00:08:49,000 | 00:08:50,000 | 連一成都不到 |
| 00:08:50,000 | 00:08:52,000 | 面對這麼高異常的比例 |
| 00:08:52,000 | 00:08:54,000 | 你們不是擴大追查 |
| 00:08:54,000 | 00:08:56,000 | 而是急著縮小範圍 |
| 00:08:56,000 | 00:08:57,000 | 現在是怎麼樣 |
| 00:08:57,000 | 00:08:59,000 | 宣布就是不敢影響到 |
| 00:08:59,000 | 00:09:01,000 | 其他的廠商 |
| 00:09:01,000 | 00:09:03,000 | 然後保護業者的安全 |
| 00:09:03,000 | 00:09:05,000 | 然後拿人民的財產安全 |
| 00:09:05,000 | 00:09:06,000 | 分明來做這個犧牲 |
| 00:09:06,000 | 00:09:07,000 | 是這樣嗎 |
| 00:09:07,000 | 00:09:08,000 | 報告委員 |
| 00:09:08,000 | 00:09:12,000 | 我們今年從1月到6月的60批 |
| 00:09:12,000 | 00:09:13,000 | 其實我們現在有 |
| 00:09:13,000 | 00:09:15,000 | 檢體的全部都驗完了 |
| 00:09:15,000 | 00:09:16,000 | 1到3月的我們驗出來的 |
| 00:09:16,000 | 00:09:19,000 | 結果都是沒有檢出的 |
| 00:09:19,000 | 00:09:21,000 | 沒有鈔標的一個情形 |
| 00:09:21,000 | 00:09:22,000 | 那4到6月的 |
| 00:09:22,000 | 00:09:24,000 | 剛才提到4月5月6月 |
| 00:09:24,000 | 00:09:26,000 | 我們分別在4月10批裡面有5批 |
| 00:09:26,000 | 00:09:28,000 | 針對其他的5批 |
| 00:09:28,000 | 00:09:29,000 | 總共10批裡面 |
| 00:09:29,000 | 00:09:30,000 | 我們都每一批都驗完 |
| 00:09:30,000 | 00:09:33,000 | 原油跟下油相關的油品 |
| 00:09:33,000 | 00:09:35,000 | 確立它上下之間的關係 |
| 00:09:35,000 | 00:09:38,000 | 能夠達成確立它的是 |
| 00:09:38,000 | 00:09:40,000 | 目前是沒有檢出的安全的 |
| 00:09:40,000 | 00:09:41,000 | 一個狀況 |
| 00:09:41,000 | 00:09:44,000 | 你只驗了5萬多噸而已 |
| 00:09:44,000 | 00:09:46,000 | 我跟委員稍微報告 |
| 00:09:46,000 | 00:09:47,000 | 因為做出來的油 |
| 00:09:47,000 | 00:09:50,000 | 但是你們覺得說 |
| 00:09:50,000 | 00:09:52,000 | 只要不驗就不會有問題 |
| 00:09:52,000 | 00:09:53,000 | 不是 |
| 00:09:53,000 | 00:09:54,000 | 跟委員進一步說 |
| 00:09:54,000 | 00:09:55,000 | 每一批都驗過了 |
| 00:09:55,000 | 00:09:57,000 | 平常要有風險管理 |
| 00:09:57,000 | 00:10:00,000 | 這個做風險管理是要靠科學 |
| 00:10:00,000 | 00:10:01,000 | 那危機發生的時候 |
| 00:10:01,000 | 00:10:04,000 | 這個要阻止風險擴散 |
| 00:10:04,000 | 00:10:05,000 | 就要有決心 |
| 00:10:05,000 | 00:10:06,000 | 對不對 |
| 00:10:06,000 | 00:10:08,000 | 再好的科學也保護不了人命 |
| 00:10:08,000 | 00:10:09,000 | 你們如果不做 |
| 00:10:09,000 | 00:10:11,000 | 拿著再好的武器也沒用 |
| 00:10:11,000 | 00:10:12,000 | 謝謝委員的關心 |
| 00:10:12,000 | 00:10:13,000 | 我們又下定決心 |
| 00:10:13,000 | 00:10:14,000 | 每一批都驗了 |
| 00:10:14,000 | 00:10:15,000 | 而且驗出來結果的 |
| 00:10:15,000 | 00:10:18,000 | 每一批都跟各位委員做報告 |
| 00:10:18,000 | 00:10:20,000 | 那其中我們看到19批的 |
| 00:10:20,000 | 00:10:22,000 | 是目前是上下油都驗起來 |
| 00:10:22,000 | 00:10:23,000 | 是合格標準的 |
| 00:10:23,000 | 00:10:25,000 | 那另外有3批的油槽 |
| 00:10:25,000 | 00:10:26,000 | 甚至還在油槽裡面 |
| 00:10:26,000 | 00:10:27,000 | 我們也進去去驗 |
| 00:10:27,000 | 00:10:29,000 | 確定都是沒有驗出扁平批的 |
| 00:10:29,000 | 00:10:31,000 | 這邊也在這個機會 |
| 00:10:31,000 | 00:10:35,000 | 跟各位大眾能夠說明 |
| 00:10:35,000 | 00:10:37,000 | 那我再問你進口商有15家 |
| 00:10:37,000 | 00:10:39,000 | 直接賣給下油22家廠商 |
| 00:10:39,000 | 00:10:40,000 | 8大廠自己留 |
| 00:10:40,000 | 00:10:42,000 | 所以總共有30間工廠 |
| 00:10:42,000 | 00:10:44,000 | 進到可能有問題的豆子 |
| 00:10:44,000 | 00:10:45,000 | 另外還有9萬噸 |
| 00:10:45,000 | 00:10:46,000 | 我們現在剛才我算了一下 |
| 00:10:46,000 | 00:10:47,000 | 追不到嘛 |
| 00:10:47,000 | 00:10:48,000 | 那你很快要開學了 |
| 00:10:48,000 | 00:10:49,000 | 你不繼續追嗎 |
| 00:10:49,000 | 00:10:51,000 | 你認為這樣就安全了嗎 |
| 00:10:51,000 | 00:10:53,000 | 跟委員說明 |
| 00:10:53,000 | 00:10:55,000 | 我們對於進入油廠裡面 |
| 00:10:55,000 | 00:10:57,000 | 因為豆子的問題 |
| 00:10:57,000 | 00:10:58,000 | 不代表結果有問題 |
| 00:10:58,000 | 00:10:59,000 | 因為整個製程 |
| 00:10:59,000 | 00:11:01,000 | 其實在管制的部分 |
| 00:11:01,000 | 00:11:03,000 | 我們壓強在關鍵節點 |
| 00:11:03,000 | 00:11:04,000 | 跟主批的檢驗 |
| 00:11:04,000 | 00:11:05,000 | 達到這個效果 |
| 00:11:05,000 | 00:11:08,000 | 那2024年的賴清德總統 |
| 00:11:08,000 | 00:11:09,000 | 是很討厭你這種樣子 |
| 00:11:09,000 | 00:11:10,000 | 你這種態度 |
| 00:11:10,000 | 00:11:12,000 | 但他現在把你當寶貝 |
| 00:11:12,000 | 00:11:14,000 | 以前的民進黨在野 |
| 00:11:14,000 | 00:11:15,000 | 要求的是寧可錯殺 |
| 00:11:15,000 | 00:11:16,000 | 也不要放過風險 |
| 00:11:16,000 | 00:11:17,000 | 現在執政的 |
| 00:11:17,000 | 00:11:20,000 | 就變成沒有百分之百的證據 |
| 00:11:20,000 | 00:11:22,000 | 就不要擴大處理 |
| 00:11:22,000 | 00:11:24,000 | 這邊跟委員特別報告 |
| 00:11:24,000 | 00:11:26,000 | 我請教你 |
| 00:11:26,000 | 00:11:28,000 | 113年3月13號 |
| 00:11:28,000 | 00:11:30,000 | 3月13號對面食品安全會 |
| 00:11:30,000 | 00:11:32,000 | 那時候李孟彥 |
| 00:11:32,000 | 00:11:33,000 | 這個秘書長說 |
| 00:11:33,000 | 00:11:35,000 | 發現瘦肉精不要馬上發佈消息 |
| 00:11:35,000 | 00:11:36,000 | 不然會造成恐慌 |
| 00:11:36,000 | 00:11:38,000 | 大家普遍愛吃的美牛 |
| 00:11:38,000 | 00:11:39,000 | 都有瘦肉精 |
| 00:11:39,000 | 00:11:40,000 | 已經吃了十年 |
| 00:11:40,000 | 00:11:43,000 | 所以要大家接受牛跟豬有瘦肉精 |
| 00:11:43,000 | 00:11:44,000 | 你當時也在場 |
| 00:11:44,000 | 00:11:46,000 | 那現在請你告訴我 |
| 00:11:46,000 | 00:11:48,000 | 是不是因為民進黨執政 |
| 00:11:48,000 | 00:11:49,000 | 無限開放 |
| 00:11:49,000 | 00:11:51,000 | 所以我們現在吃的這個 |
| 00:11:51,000 | 00:11:53,000 | 美豬美牛都有瘦肉精 |
| 00:11:53,000 | 00:11:55,000 | 跟委員做進一步說明 |
| 00:11:55,000 | 00:11:57,000 | 對於美豬美牛 |
| 00:11:57,000 | 00:11:59,000 | 以及各國的豬肉 |
| 00:11:59,000 | 00:12:01,000 | 我們對於瘦肉精的管理 |
| 00:12:01,000 | 00:12:02,000 | 其實是一致的 |
| 00:12:02,000 | 00:12:04,000 | 那在豬肉的開放 |
| 00:12:04,000 | 00:12:05,000 | 跟牛肉開放 |
| 00:12:05,000 | 00:12:07,000 | 其實我們從歷史上面看起來 |
| 00:12:07,000 | 00:12:10,000 | 都知道它在不同的政黨階段裡面 |
| 00:12:10,000 | 00:12:11,000 | 都同樣的開放 |
| 00:12:11,000 | 00:12:12,000 | 對我來講 |
| 00:12:12,000 | 00:12:14,000 | 瘦肉精是一種化學物質 |
| 00:12:14,000 | 00:12:15,000 | 它的風險是一致的 |
| 00:12:15,000 | 00:12:17,000 | 不應牛跟豬有改變 |
| 00:12:17,000 | 00:12:19,000 | 我們堅持原來的觀點 |
| 00:12:19,000 | 00:12:20,000 | 現在跳下一題了 |
| 00:12:20,000 | 00:12:21,000 | 時間也不夠 |
| 00:12:21,000 | 00:12:22,000 | 我問你 |
| 00:12:22,000 | 00:12:23,000 | 這個蘋果 |
| 00:12:23,000 | 00:12:24,000 | 這個芬普寧的殘留容許 |
| 00:12:24,000 | 00:12:27,000 | 業者當時申請的容許值是多少 |
| 00:12:27,000 | 00:12:28,000 | 它爆出來的 |
| 00:12:28,000 | 00:12:29,000 | 希望我們 |
| 00:12:29,000 | 00:12:31,000 | 它希望爆出來的 |
| 00:12:31,000 | 00:12:32,000 | 我記得是5 |
| 00:12:32,000 | 00:12:34,000 | 我們希望實際上算出來不是5 |
| 00:12:34,000 | 00:12:36,000 | 因為是在3的PPM的 |
| 00:12:36,000 | 00:12:38,000 | 所以我們即使申請出來 |
| 00:12:38,000 | 00:12:40,000 | 不管是申請量是 |
| 00:12:40,000 | 00:12:42,000 | 要求是多少或希望多少 |
| 00:12:42,000 | 00:12:45,000 | 我們都按照我們的科學風險分析 |
| 00:12:45,000 | 00:12:46,000 | 在整個專家委會 |
| 00:12:46,000 | 00:12:48,000 | 用國際的OECD的 |
| 00:12:48,000 | 00:12:50,000 | 所謂計算公式裡面 |
| 00:12:50,000 | 00:12:52,000 | 我們涵蓋了國人現在的 |
| 00:12:52,000 | 00:12:53,000 | 設施的習慣 |
| 00:12:53,000 | 00:12:54,000 | 那為什麼 |
| 00:12:54,000 | 00:12:55,000 | 整體的設施 |
| 00:12:55,000 | 00:12:56,000 | 我們台灣是3 |
| 00:12:56,000 | 00:12:57,000 | 日本又是2呢 |
| 00:12:57,000 | 00:13:00,000 | 所以每個國家的設施的習慣 |
| 00:13:00,000 | 00:13:01,000 | 風險是不同的 |
| 00:13:01,000 | 00:13:02,000 | 所以在這種前提下 |
| 00:13:02,000 | 00:13:03,000 | 我們還會按照這來說明 |
| 00:13:03,000 | 00:13:05,000 | 業者111年一月就開始送資料 |
| 00:13:05,000 | 00:13:06,000 | 同樣的芬普寧 |
| 00:13:06,000 | 00:13:08,000 | 一次送了很多樣水果 |
| 00:13:08,000 | 00:13:10,000 | 那第一面是因為資料不完整 |
| 00:13:10,000 | 00:13:14,000 | 幾乎連這個資料都還沒有資格審 |
| 00:13:14,000 | 00:13:16,000 | 112年結束後 |
| 00:13:16,000 | 00:13:17,000 | 連資料都還不起 |
| 00:13:17,000 | 00:13:21,000 | 最後總共送了26場田間試驗資料 |
| 00:13:21,000 | 00:13:22,000 | 看起來很多 |
| 00:13:22,000 | 00:13:24,000 | 但實際審查之後 |
| 00:13:24,000 | 00:13:27,000 | 有22場因為這個施藥劑量 |
| 00:13:27,000 | 00:13:29,000 | 施藥次數或操作方式 |
| 00:13:29,000 | 00:13:31,000 | 不符合美國的要求 |
| 00:13:31,000 | 00:13:32,000 | 全部被剔除 |
| 00:13:32,000 | 00:13:34,000 | 真正拿下來評估的 |
| 00:13:34,000 | 00:13:35,000 | 只有4場的試驗 |
| 00:13:35,000 | 00:13:38,000 | 換句話說26場只採用4場 |
| 00:13:38,000 | 00:13:41,000 | 採用率大概只有15% |
| 00:13:41,000 | 00:13:42,000 | 而這4場的殘留量 |
| 00:13:42,000 | 00:13:47,000 | 大概落在0.4到1.125ppm之間 |
| 00:13:47,000 | 00:13:49,000 | 尤其最低值0.48 |
| 00:13:49,000 | 00:13:52,000 | 就幾乎貼著我們原本規定的0.5的標準 |
| 00:13:52,000 | 00:13:55,000 | 部長你說這個3ppm |
| 00:13:55,000 | 00:13:57,000 | 是為了反映實際的情形 |
| 00:13:57,000 | 00:14:00,000 | 這個跟台美貿易有關係嗎 |
| 00:14:00,000 | 00:14:02,000 | 跟台美貿易有沒有關係 |
| 00:14:02,000 | 00:14:03,000 | 先講這邊有關係 |
| 00:14:03,000 | 00:14:05,000 | 委員非常非常專業的 |
| 00:14:05,000 | 00:14:07,000 | 26場裡面為什麼取4場 |
| 00:14:07,000 | 00:14:09,000 | 每一場的田間試驗 |
| 00:14:09,000 | 00:14:11,000 | 要符合叫做GAP |
| 00:14:11,000 | 00:14:14,000 | 良好的農業執行標準 |
| 00:14:14,000 | 00:14:15,000 | 我覺得很奇怪 |
| 00:14:15,000 | 00:14:16,000 | 在這種前提下才能夠 |
| 00:14:16,000 | 00:14:18,000 | 這個標準是符合美國的標準 |
| 00:14:18,000 | 00:14:21,000 | 可信的試驗結果 |
| 00:14:21,000 | 00:14:23,000 | 才能夠進入我們的評估 |
| 00:14:23,000 | 00:14:24,000 | 所以進入我們評估 |
| 00:14:24,000 | 00:14:26,000 | 一定是可信的完整的 |
| 00:14:26,000 | 00:14:28,000 | 因為這個可信度才能夠導入 |
| 00:14:28,000 | 00:14:30,000 | 我們後續的一個計算 |
| 00:14:30,000 | 00:14:31,000 | 進入計算之後 |
| 00:14:31,000 | 00:14:36,000 | 確實它是在這樣子3ppm的標準底下 |
| 00:14:36,000 | 00:14:39,000 | 是我們看起來是很合理的數據 |
| 00:14:39,000 | 00:14:40,000 | 我覺得很奇怪的是 |
| 00:14:40,000 | 00:14:41,000 | 我們真正的問題是 |
| 00:14:41,000 | 00:14:43,000 | 政府為什麼要接受這套資料 |
| 00:14:43,000 | 00:14:45,000 | 因為為什麼在26場試驗中 |
| 00:14:45,000 | 00:14:47,000 | 只剩下4場可以使用 |
| 00:14:47,000 | 00:14:50,000 | 仍然決定把原本的0.5ppm |
| 00:14:50,000 | 00:14:52,000 | 要提高到3ppm |
| 00:14:52,000 | 00:14:53,000 | 我覺得這很奇怪 |
| 00:14:53,000 | 00:14:55,000 | 跟委員報告 |
| 00:14:55,000 | 00:14:57,000 | 這個計算這個公式 |
| 00:14:57,000 | 00:14:58,000 | 不是台灣發明的 |
| 00:14:58,000 | 00:15:00,000 | 是世界十大先進國家 |
| 00:15:00,000 | 00:15:02,000 | OECD等等的 |
| 00:15:02,000 | 00:15:04,000 | 進行同樣的公式在計算的 |
| 00:15:04,000 | 00:15:08,000 | 不因為台灣而改變了這個公式 |
| 00:15:08,000 | 00:15:11,000 | 也沒有去適應這個要去對應 |
| 00:15:11,000 | 00:15:12,000 | 我現在時間不夠 |
| 00:15:12,000 | 00:15:14,000 | 有很多時間差 |
| 00:15:14,000 | 00:15:16,000 | 有很多時間這整個排列下來 |
| 00:15:16,000 | 00:15:19,000 | 一直以來我們跟美國的貿易來談判的時候 |
| 00:15:19,000 | 00:15:22,000 | 在談這個部分 |
| 00:15:22,000 | 00:15:24,000 | 農藥容許量不足 |
| 00:15:24,000 | 00:15:27,000 | 這個部分都不能符合美國的標準 |
| 00:15:27,000 | 00:15:30,000 | 美國一直要求我們要調整標準 |
| 00:15:30,000 | 00:15:32,000 | 整個下來讓我們覺得 |
| 00:15:32,000 | 00:15:34,000 | 今天會調到3ppm |
| 00:15:34,000 | 00:15:37,000 | 是因為要受到美國的壓力 |
| 00:15:37,000 | 00:15:39,000 | 那我希望這樣 |
| 00:15:39,000 | 00:15:42,000 | 這個部分我們回去再檢討一下 |
| 00:15:42,000 | 00:15:45,000 | 你這個3ppm你再拿給 |
| 00:15:45,000 | 00:15:47,000 | 你們討論的數據給我 |
| 00:15:47,000 | 00:15:48,000 | 好嗎 |
| 00:15:48,000 | 00:15:49,000 | 跟委員特別報告 |
| 00:15:49,000 | 00:15:50,000 | 我們其實整個算起來 |
| 00:15:50,000 | 00:15:52,000 | OECD的ADI |
| 00:15:52,000 | 00:15:54,000 | 目前是在30% |
| 00:15:54,000 | 00:15:59,000 | 因為蘋果本身已經有173項農藥殘留容許量 |
| 00:15:59,000 | 00:16:01,000 | 已經173項了 |
| 00:16:01,000 | 00:16:05,000 | 那這項標準是基於人民的食安 |
| 00:16:05,000 | 00:16:07,000 | 還是為了我們現在開放這個 |
| 00:16:07,000 | 00:16:10,000 | 還是為了要讓蘋果更容易過關 |
| 00:16:10,000 | 00:16:12,000 | 我想委員我們一定是以 |
| 00:16:12,000 | 00:16:15,000 | 風險分析出來評估出來的結果 |
| 00:16:15,000 | 00:16:18,000 | 也是食安的前提之下來做出來的結果 |
| 00:16:18,000 | 00:16:20,000 | 謝謝 |
| 00:16:20,000 | 00:16:22,000 | 謝謝 |