iVOD / 170659
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王育敏 @
| Start Time | End Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00:00,000 | 00:00:10,000 | 好 謝謝主席 我們有請部長 |
| 00:00:10,000 | 00:00:15,000 | 有請司聰良部長 好 委員好 |
| 00:00:15,000 | 00:00:23,000 | 部長好 部長這一波的毒油風暴 最新的消息是這一波毒油還消亡的南韓 |
| 00:00:23,000 | 00:00:26,000 | 這簡直是丟臉丟到國外去了 |
| 00:00:26,000 | 00:00:34,000 | 第一時間你們說好事是到日本 日本沒有訂本便品的標準 |
| 00:00:34,000 | 00:00:36,000 | 所以沒有關係 也不用通報 |
| 00:00:36,000 | 00:00:40,000 | 這就是一種非常輕忽跟僥倖的態度 |
| 00:00:40,000 | 00:00:46,000 | 結果現在你們昨天晚上最新更新是消亡南韓去了 |
| 00:00:46,000 | 00:00:53,000 | 南韓的標準跟我們一樣 跟歐盟一樣 都是相對嚴格的一個標準 |
| 00:00:53,000 | 00:00:58,000 | 我們輸了不知道他的品質如何的油到了南韓 |
| 00:00:58,000 | 00:01:05,000 | 因為這一批是沒有樣本 沒有樣本問題也很大 |
| 00:01:05,000 | 00:01:09,000 | 為什麼一個廠商 你好幾批的都有樣本 |
| 00:01:09,000 | 00:01:14,000 | 這一批就毒漏了沒有樣本 是沒有樣本還是銷毀還是隱匿 |
| 00:01:14,000 | 00:01:15,000 | 你們查清楚了嗎 |
| 00:01:15,000 | 00:01:18,000 | 好 跟委員說明這個我們都有查清楚 |
| 00:01:18,000 | 00:01:21,000 | 第一個呢 它是有樣本 在中聯裡面有樣本 |
| 00:01:21,000 | 00:01:23,000 | 那個樣本驗起來是合格 |
| 00:01:23,000 | 00:01:28,000 | 但是因為它所有的樣本驗起來都合格 |
| 00:01:28,000 | 00:01:30,000 | 但是我們在下游驗出不合格 |
| 00:01:30,000 | 00:01:34,000 | 所以我們才會全面性的從中間這一層 |
| 00:01:34,000 | 00:01:41,000 | 就是福茂福壽跟泰山他們的存留的原油的樣本 |
| 00:01:41,000 | 00:01:42,000 | 所以你一定不相信他的樣本了 |
| 00:01:42,000 | 00:01:45,000 | 所以基本上他驗的話 |
| 00:01:45,000 | 00:01:48,000 | 已經沒有意義了 不準確了 |
| 00:01:48,000 | 00:01:51,000 | 所以現在南韓應該是插在蛋糕裡 |
| 00:01:51,000 | 00:01:54,000 | 我覺得我們是一個負責任的政府 |
| 00:01:54,000 | 00:01:56,000 | 這不是只有廠商的事情 |
| 00:01:56,000 | 00:02:01,000 | 我們應該要對應跟南韓的食藥署相關的單位 |
| 00:02:01,000 | 00:02:04,000 | 很負責任的告知他有這樣的情況 |
| 00:02:04,000 | 00:02:07,000 | 請他們 拜託他們盡快加驗 |
| 00:02:07,000 | 00:02:09,000 | 確認這一批到底有沒有超標 |
| 00:02:09,000 | 00:02:12,000 | 這才是一個負責任的政府該做的事情吧 |
| 00:02:12,000 | 00:02:13,000 | 有沒有做 |
| 00:02:13,000 | 00:02:14,000 | 對 做了做了 |
| 00:02:14,000 | 00:02:19,000 | 真的在7月14號這個廠商就已經通知他的對方 |
| 00:02:19,000 | 00:02:20,000 | 那我們說這個油品 |
| 00:02:20,000 | 00:02:21,000 | 那驗出來了沒 |
| 00:02:21,000 | 00:02:23,000 | 那我們再去追一下他們有沒有驗 |
| 00:02:23,000 | 00:02:25,000 | 驗出來 趕快告訴大家 |
| 00:02:25,000 | 00:02:28,000 | 我們不要台灣的油品的問題 |
| 00:02:28,000 | 00:02:30,000 | 這一波還掃到國外去 |
| 00:02:30,000 | 00:02:31,000 | 這樣真的是太丟臉了 |
| 00:02:31,000 | 00:02:36,000 | 代表我們台灣在我們的品管各方面真的是有疏漏 |
| 00:02:36,000 | 00:02:37,000 | 接下來我要問你的是 |
| 00:02:37,000 | 00:02:40,000 | 你們都現在一直沒有辦法回答的問題 |
| 00:02:40,000 | 00:02:45,000 | 就是1到3月的油品到底有沒有問題 |
| 00:02:45,000 | 00:02:48,000 | 你們沒有向上追查 查出來了沒 |
| 00:02:48,000 | 00:02:50,000 | 我從第一次問你的時候就問了 |
| 00:02:50,000 | 00:02:51,000 | 都沒有問題 |
| 00:02:51,000 | 00:02:55,000 | 到目前這個驗出來的結果都出來了嗎 |
| 00:02:55,000 | 00:02:58,000 | 因為你4到6月有7批有問題 |
| 00:02:58,000 | 00:03:02,000 | 我們也是擴大往1到3月到目前還沒有驗出問題的 |
| 00:03:02,000 | 00:03:05,000 | 都驗了嘛 確定沒有問題嗎 |
| 00:03:05,000 | 00:03:07,000 | 那好 那我就要問原因喔 |
| 00:03:07,000 | 00:03:09,000 | 那怎麼會這麼奇怪 |
| 00:03:09,000 | 00:03:12,000 | 就是昨天署長最新講的說 |
| 00:03:12,000 | 00:03:14,000 | 因為這個巴西的黃豆 |
| 00:03:14,000 | 00:03:16,000 | 就是它的熱損傷率 |
| 00:03:16,000 | 00:03:19,000 | 他們自省從0.5%放寬到5% |
| 00:03:19,000 | 00:03:21,000 | 那請問業者做這個事情 |
| 00:03:21,000 | 00:03:24,000 | 我看到你們新聞稿是說去年就做這樣的事情 |
| 00:03:24,000 | 00:03:26,000 | 那如果這個是主因的話 |
| 00:03:26,000 | 00:03:28,000 | 怎麼會有的有有問題 |
| 00:03:28,000 | 00:03:30,000 | 有的有又沒有問題 |
| 00:03:30,000 | 00:03:34,000 | 1到6月應該也都是有用巴西的黃豆吧 |
| 00:03:34,000 | 00:03:36,000 | 因為我找到知道去年就有進了 |
| 00:03:36,000 | 00:03:37,000 | 那今年也有喔 |
| 00:03:37,000 | 00:03:40,000 | 那如果它是一個重要的因素的話 |
| 00:03:40,000 | 00:03:42,000 | 為什麼在你們30批裡面 |
| 00:03:42,000 | 00:03:44,000 | 會有的有有的沒有 |
| 00:03:44,000 | 00:03:45,000 | 好 跟委員說明 |
| 00:03:45,000 | 00:03:47,000 | 因為現在專家的見解 |
| 00:03:47,000 | 00:03:50,000 | 當然最後的調查報告還在撰寫中 |
| 00:03:50,000 | 00:03:53,000 | 那麼以目前我們專家的見解上 |
| 00:03:53,000 | 00:03:58,000 | 當然這個熱損利率是一個驗收的標準 |
| 00:03:58,000 | 00:04:01,000 | 但是它沒有辦法完全等同於品質 |
| 00:04:01,000 | 00:04:03,000 | 所以在品質上 |
| 00:04:03,000 | 00:04:06,000 | 確實在4月份的這一批的品質 |
| 00:04:06,000 | 00:04:09,000 | 他們有不同的 |
| 00:04:09,000 | 00:04:13,000 | 入傳批的來源 |
| 00:04:13,000 | 00:04:18,000 | 它的不同傳批在4月份的品質是特別不好 |
| 00:04:18,000 | 00:04:20,000 | 所以造成它 |
| 00:04:20,000 | 00:04:22,000 | 那4月份的量有多大 |
| 00:04:22,000 | 00:04:24,000 | 就是幾噸啦 |
| 00:04:24,000 | 00:04:28,000 | 就是4月份做的那一批品質特別不好 |
| 00:04:28,000 | 00:04:31,000 | 所以它可能本田品的含量特別高 |
| 00:04:31,000 | 00:04:32,000 | 對就是帶進來 |
| 00:04:32,000 | 00:04:34,000 | 然後它又沒有驗 |
| 00:04:34,000 | 00:04:38,000 | 就是說這個黃豆本身的品質就不好 |
| 00:04:38,000 | 00:04:39,000 | 那它又沒有驗 |
| 00:04:39,000 | 00:04:42,000 | 所以它這個問題可能是出在這個地方 |
| 00:04:42,000 | 00:04:44,000 | 所以它的製程到目前為止 |
| 00:04:44,000 | 00:04:45,000 | 你們覺得製程是沒有問題 |
| 00:04:45,000 | 00:04:47,000 | 就是原料端的問題 |
| 00:04:47,000 | 00:04:49,000 | 製程上它還是要改 |
| 00:04:49,000 | 00:04:51,000 | 因為它有很多的管制點沒有達標 |
| 00:04:51,000 | 00:04:54,000 | 從我們這個集合它的HA |
| 00:04:54,000 | 00:04:56,000 | 我們都有很多的管制點 |
| 00:04:56,000 | 00:04:58,000 | 它的這些管制點沒有完全達標 |
| 00:04:58,000 | 00:05:00,000 | 從今年至少是今年 |
| 00:05:00,000 | 00:05:02,000 | 從1月份到6月份 |
| 00:05:02,000 | 00:05:05,000 | 到底巴西黃豆他們進口量多少 |
| 00:05:05,000 | 00:05:07,000 | 然後用了多少 |
| 00:05:07,000 | 00:05:09,000 | 還有這個本田品它的原豆含量 |
| 00:05:09,000 | 00:05:11,000 | 因為你們一直說它的熱損傷率 |
| 00:05:11,000 | 00:05:14,000 | 就是從0.5%到5% |
| 00:05:14,000 | 00:05:15,000 | 它是放大了10倍 |
| 00:05:15,000 | 00:05:17,000 | 如果是從去年的話 |
| 00:05:17,000 | 00:05:19,000 | 那照大量今年進來的豆子 |
| 00:05:19,000 | 00:05:20,000 | 可能都有這樣的問題 |
| 00:05:20,000 | 00:05:23,000 | 那我不知道你們還能不能回溯追查追查的到 |
| 00:05:23,000 | 00:05:25,000 | 到底它所有占的比例是多少 |
| 00:05:25,000 | 00:05:28,000 | 然後會導致4到6月份 |
| 00:05:28,000 | 00:05:30,000 | 你們現在查出來的這幾批 |
| 00:05:30,000 | 00:05:31,000 | 通通有問題 |
| 00:05:31,000 | 00:05:35,000 | 我覺得要給社會各界一個非常詳實的報告 |
| 00:05:35,000 | 00:05:37,000 | 因為你們一直到昨天才進場 |
| 00:05:37,000 | 00:05:39,000 | 然後再一次去查 |
| 00:05:39,000 | 00:05:41,000 | 事實上這個速度都有點慢了 |
| 00:05:41,000 | 00:05:43,000 | 既然慢了你出來 |
| 00:05:43,000 | 00:05:45,000 | 你出來的報告就要非常的完整 |
| 00:05:45,000 | 00:05:47,000 | 我要的是一個很完整的 |
| 00:05:47,000 | 00:05:49,000 | 徹底的檢討 |
| 00:05:49,000 | 00:05:50,000 | 跟原因的報告 |
| 00:05:50,000 | 00:05:52,000 | 你們這個什麼時候會出來 |
| 00:05:52,000 | 00:05:53,000 | 跟委員說明 |
| 00:05:53,000 | 00:05:56,000 | 其實我們之前都有我們的這個 |
| 00:05:56,000 | 00:05:59,000 | 食品組還有相關的人員都一起去收集 |
| 00:05:59,000 | 00:06:00,000 | 沒關係你直接回答我 |
| 00:06:00,000 | 00:06:01,000 | 還有別的問題要問 |
| 00:06:01,000 | 00:06:03,000 | 你這個完整的報告 |
| 00:06:03,000 | 00:06:04,000 | 告訴外界 |
| 00:06:04,000 | 00:06:07,000 | 這次這個食安風暴真正的原因 |
| 00:06:07,000 | 00:06:09,000 | 整個的詳細調查報告 |
| 00:06:09,000 | 00:06:11,000 | 什麼時候會完成對外正式公告 |
| 00:06:11,000 | 00:06:13,000 | 這個禮拜我們就會正式完成 |
| 00:06:13,000 | 00:06:14,000 | 因為昨天是 |
| 00:06:14,000 | 00:06:17,000 | 昨天專家進去幫我們確認這個 |
| 00:06:17,000 | 00:06:19,000 | 禮拜幾要對外公告 |
| 00:06:19,000 | 00:06:21,000 | 禮拜幾我們現在在 |
| 00:06:21,000 | 00:06:23,000 | 各界都很關注 |
| 00:06:23,000 | 00:06:25,000 | 應該在這個禮拜內 |
| 00:06:25,000 | 00:06:26,000 | 這個禮拜內 |
| 00:06:26,000 | 00:06:28,000 | 這個禮拜內會把所有的報告 |
| 00:06:28,000 | 00:06:29,000 | 就是告訴大家 |
| 00:06:29,000 | 00:06:32,000 | 這一件事情的這個調查報告就可以完成了 |
| 00:06:32,000 | 00:06:35,000 | 好這件事情真的問題很大 |
| 00:06:35,000 | 00:06:37,000 | 另外一個是修法的問題 |
| 00:06:37,000 | 00:06:39,000 | 昨天的這個修法會議 |
| 00:06:39,000 | 00:06:41,000 | 地方政府都傻眼了 |
| 00:06:41,000 | 00:06:43,000 | 就是到現場看到 |
| 00:06:43,000 | 00:06:45,000 | 你們衛福部跟法務部跟行政院 |
| 00:06:45,000 | 00:06:47,000 | 其他單位之間 |
| 00:06:47,000 | 00:06:48,000 | 根本都還沒有談好 |
| 00:06:48,000 | 00:06:50,000 | 然後大家就匆匆忙忙 |
| 00:06:50,000 | 00:06:52,000 | 也把這個六都的市長找來 |
| 00:06:52,000 | 00:06:55,000 | 所以這個包花蔣萬安市長 |
| 00:06:55,000 | 00:06:56,000 | 跟吳宣仁市長 |
| 00:06:56,000 | 00:06:57,000 | 他們開了兩個小時之後 |
| 00:06:57,000 | 00:07:00,000 | 他們覺得這種開法真的是沒有效率 |
| 00:07:00,000 | 00:07:02,000 | 而且你們事先都不先整合好 |
| 00:07:02,000 | 00:07:04,000 | 一個版本再跟地方對 |
| 00:07:04,000 | 00:07:05,000 | 都還沒有做 |
| 00:07:05,000 | 00:07:07,000 | 然後就匆匆忙忙找他們來背書 |
| 00:07:07,000 | 00:07:10,000 | 所以他們覺得沒有辦法接受 |
| 00:07:10,000 | 00:07:12,000 | 那這當中事實上還涉及到 |
| 00:07:12,000 | 00:07:15,000 | 中央的職權跟地方的職權 |
| 00:07:15,000 | 00:07:17,000 | 現在這個你們一直要說 |
| 00:07:17,000 | 00:07:19,000 | 地方政府有責任 |
| 00:07:19,000 | 00:07:20,000 | 地方政府有責任 |
| 00:07:20,000 | 00:07:23,000 | 但是我們把整個食安法攤開來講 |
| 00:07:23,000 | 00:07:26,000 | 2014年的修法我有參與 |
| 00:07:26,000 | 00:07:28,000 | 當時我不知道部長 |
| 00:07:28,000 | 00:07:30,000 | 您當時是在主密還是什麼 |
| 00:07:30,000 | 00:07:32,000 | 當時你在衛福部是 |
| 00:07:32,000 | 00:07:33,000 | 你有參與修法嗎 |
| 00:07:33,000 | 00:07:35,000 | 沒有那個時候還沒有 |
| 00:07:35,000 | 00:07:36,000 | 我管另外一個部門 |
| 00:07:36,000 | 00:07:39,000 | 食安辦的主任有參與修法嗎 |
| 00:07:39,000 | 00:07:40,000 | 你們都沒有 |
| 00:07:40,000 | 00:07:42,000 | 當時修法的精神很重要的 |
| 00:07:42,000 | 00:07:45,000 | 就在食安法的二至一條 |
| 00:07:45,000 | 00:07:46,000 | 這個是新增的條文 |
| 00:07:46,000 | 00:07:49,000 | 還有食安法的第四條 |
| 00:07:49,000 | 00:07:50,000 | 二至一條 |
| 00:07:50,000 | 00:07:54,000 | 他把這個你們可以去翻所有的法案 |
| 00:07:54,000 | 00:07:57,000 | 很少直接指定院長 |
| 00:07:57,000 | 00:08:00,000 | 他必須擔任召集人的 |
| 00:08:00,000 | 00:08:03,000 | 當時就是大家非常重視食安事件 |
| 00:08:03,000 | 00:08:05,000 | 所以增加了二至一條 |
| 00:08:05,000 | 00:08:08,000 | 食安匯報也是那個時候增加出來的 |
| 00:08:08,000 | 00:08:12,000 | 必須由院長擔任召集人 |
| 00:08:12,000 | 00:08:15,000 | 而且遇到重大的這個風暴的時候 |
| 00:08:15,000 | 00:08:18,000 | 要召開臨時會議 |
| 00:08:18,000 | 00:08:20,000 | 那所以院長事實上 |
| 00:08:20,000 | 00:08:21,000 | 他擔任一個非常重要的角色 |
| 00:08:21,000 | 00:08:22,000 | 為什麼 |
| 00:08:22,000 | 00:08:23,000 | 因為食安的議題 |
| 00:08:23,000 | 00:08:25,000 | 怎麼會一直說是地方的責任 |
| 00:08:25,000 | 00:08:27,000 | 食安的議題坦白講 |
| 00:08:27,000 | 00:08:29,000 | 它必須是一條邊 |
| 00:08:29,000 | 00:08:30,000 | 它必須是跨部會 |
| 00:08:30,000 | 00:08:32,000 | 它必須是由一個最高 |
| 00:08:32,000 | 00:08:35,000 | 有權力的人來統籌所有的事情 |
| 00:08:35,000 | 00:08:36,000 | 所以這是食安法 |
| 00:08:36,000 | 00:08:38,000 | 當時上一波修法最重要的精神 |
| 00:08:38,000 | 00:08:40,000 | 食安法第二條之一 |
| 00:08:40,000 | 00:08:41,000 | 請大家把它翻出來 |
| 00:08:41,000 | 00:08:43,000 | 好好的看 |
| 00:08:43,000 | 00:08:44,000 | 重大事件 |
| 00:08:44,000 | 00:08:45,000 | 現在大家都說 |
| 00:08:45,000 | 00:08:47,000 | 中央應該有一個指揮機制 |
| 00:08:47,000 | 00:08:49,000 | 要再寫更清楚我也不反對 |
| 00:08:49,000 | 00:08:51,000 | 但是坦白講 |
| 00:08:51,000 | 00:08:52,000 | 食安法的二至一條 |
| 00:08:52,000 | 00:08:55,000 | 已經賦予了整個中央行政機關 |
| 00:08:55,000 | 00:08:57,000 | 非常高的權限 |
| 00:08:57,000 | 00:08:59,000 | 沒有寫你們不能做嗎 |
| 00:08:59,000 | 00:09:01,000 | 過去的重大食安事件 |
| 00:09:01,000 | 00:09:04,000 | 哪一次不是中央擔起來 |
| 00:09:04,000 | 00:09:07,000 | 食藥署擔起來統一一條邊 |
| 00:09:07,000 | 00:09:09,000 | 要求各縣市要怎麼做 |
| 00:09:09,000 | 00:09:10,000 | 這個叫指揮運作 |
| 00:09:10,000 | 00:09:11,000 | 為什麼 |
| 00:09:11,000 | 00:09:12,000 | 所有的食安議題 |
| 00:09:12,000 | 00:09:14,000 | 不會是單一縣市的問題 |
| 00:09:14,000 | 00:09:15,000 | 就像這個油品 |
| 00:09:15,000 | 00:09:18,000 | 現在有問題的產品到下游去 |
| 00:09:18,000 | 00:09:20,000 | 本島離島全部都中 |
| 00:09:20,000 | 00:09:21,000 | 怎麼可能是 |
| 00:09:21,000 | 00:09:24,000 | 只有單一個縣市擔得起的 |
| 00:09:24,000 | 00:09:26,000 | 這是為什麼我們要給食藥署 |
| 00:09:26,000 | 00:09:27,000 | 這麼多的預算 |
| 00:09:27,000 | 00:09:29,000 | 我們要設食安辦 |
| 00:09:29,000 | 00:09:32,000 | 行政院別忘了還有食安辦 |
| 00:09:32,000 | 00:09:34,000 | 就代表食安這一體 |
| 00:09:34,000 | 00:09:36,000 | 本來就是跨部會 |
| 00:09:36,000 | 00:09:38,000 | 中央指揮地方一條邊 |
| 00:09:38,000 | 00:09:39,000 | 是這樣子的運作 |
| 00:09:39,000 | 00:09:41,000 | 現在大家為了卸責 |
| 00:09:41,000 | 00:09:43,000 | 拼命去攻擊地方政府 |
| 00:09:43,000 | 00:09:45,000 | 我如果是地方政府的食安人員 |
| 00:09:45,000 | 00:09:47,000 | 真的是心寒無比 |
| 00:09:47,000 | 00:09:49,000 | 陳其邁市長昨天就講了 |
| 00:09:49,000 | 00:09:51,000 | 聽中央的一下子叫我上架 |
| 00:09:51,000 | 00:09:53,000 | 一下子下架 |
| 00:09:53,000 | 00:09:55,000 | 地方就是類似基層 |
| 00:09:55,000 | 00:09:59,000 | 所以這個大家已經不需要去爭辯了 |
| 00:09:59,000 | 00:10:01,000 | 食安這一題完完全全 |
| 00:10:01,000 | 00:10:04,000 | 中央就是有指揮監督的責任 |
| 00:10:04,000 | 00:10:06,000 | 而且食安法第二條之一 |
| 00:10:06,000 | 00:10:08,000 | 這麼高層級的食安會報 |
| 00:10:08,000 | 00:10:09,000 | 是他失靈 |
| 00:10:09,000 | 00:10:11,000 | 他失靈他沒有發揮功能 |
| 00:10:11,000 | 00:10:13,000 | 不是說現在不能做 |
| 00:10:13,000 | 00:10:15,000 | 大家都一直說要修法什麼 |
| 00:10:15,000 | 00:10:18,000 | 事實上你們沒有修法的情況底下 |
| 00:10:18,000 | 00:10:20,000 | 通通都可以做 |
| 00:10:20,000 | 00:10:22,000 | 所以我希望這一題 |
| 00:10:22,000 | 00:10:24,000 | 大家不要再去講什麼中央地方 |
| 00:10:24,000 | 00:10:26,000 | 或甚至轉而去攻擊地方 |
| 00:10:26,000 | 00:10:27,000 | 這都是沒有意義的 |
| 00:10:27,000 | 00:10:29,000 | 地方坦白講他就是執行 |
| 00:10:29,000 | 00:10:31,000 | 你們講了什麼他照你的命令 |
| 00:10:31,000 | 00:10:34,000 | 他就是幫你把那些產品下架 |
| 00:10:34,000 | 00:10:35,000 | 幫你去稽查 |
| 00:10:35,000 | 00:10:38,000 | 更何況你中央還有專案 |
| 00:10:38,000 | 00:10:43,000 | 食藥署你們過去辦專案的稽查 |
| 00:10:43,000 | 00:10:44,000 | 就是為什麼 |
| 00:10:44,000 | 00:10:46,000 | 因為這個涉及到重大的 |
| 00:10:46,000 | 00:10:48,000 | 一定是中央要扛起來 |
| 00:10:48,000 | 00:10:51,000 | 這個已經不需要再去爭辯的議題 |
| 00:10:51,000 | 00:10:53,000 | 所以未來的修法 |
| 00:10:53,000 | 00:10:55,000 | 我希望大家好好的談 |
| 00:10:55,000 | 00:10:58,000 | 這件事情不需要有黨派之分 |
| 00:10:58,000 | 00:10:59,000 | 也不是中央地方之分 |
| 00:10:59,000 | 00:11:02,000 | 而是因為這一次 |
| 00:11:02,000 | 00:11:05,000 | 到底還有哪一些特別是業者的責任 |
| 00:11:05,000 | 00:11:07,000 | 過去我們太相信他了 |
| 00:11:07,000 | 00:11:10,000 | 未來就是強化我們的差率機制就對了 |
| 00:11:10,000 | 00:11:12,000 | 像中央政府就可以指揮地方 |
| 00:11:12,000 | 00:11:14,000 | 就是你要求什麼樣的有品 |
| 00:11:14,000 | 00:11:16,000 | 你們要強力稽查 |
| 00:11:16,000 | 00:11:18,000 | 你們有哪一次專案地方不配合 |
| 00:11:18,000 | 00:11:19,000 | 沒有啊 |
| 00:11:19,000 | 00:11:21,000 | 只要你發動沒有人不配合了 |
| 00:11:21,000 | 00:11:23,000 | 所以我覺得修法 |
| 00:11:23,000 | 00:11:25,000 | 大家可以好好再來談 |
| 00:11:25,000 | 00:11:28,000 | 接下來我要問今天我們講的蘋果這一題 |
| 00:11:28,000 | 00:11:29,000 | 我大概簡單說明 |
| 00:11:29,000 | 00:11:32,000 | 其實在昨天修法的討論裡面 |
| 00:11:32,000 | 00:11:34,000 | 中央跟地方其實大家對於 |
| 00:11:34,000 | 00:11:38,000 | 成立這個重大食品安全事件的指揮中心 |
| 00:11:38,000 | 00:11:40,000 | 這個大家是有共識的 |
| 00:11:40,000 | 00:11:42,000 | 因為最重要的是他 |
| 00:11:42,000 | 00:11:46,000 | 要明確的授權這個指揮中心 |
| 00:11:46,000 | 00:11:48,000 | 能夠去統合調配資源 |
| 00:11:48,000 | 00:11:49,000 | 因為時間的關係 |
| 00:11:49,000 | 00:11:51,000 | 我要進入到下一題 |
| 00:11:51,000 | 00:11:53,000 | 這個就是蘋果 |
| 00:11:53,000 | 00:11:56,000 | 我手上這個有標示著 |
| 00:11:56,000 | 00:11:59,000 | 兩個蘋果分譜你的量 |
| 00:11:59,000 | 00:12:02,000 | 一個這個是0.5ppm |
| 00:12:02,000 | 00:12:04,000 | 一個是3ppm |
| 00:12:04,000 | 00:12:05,000 | 請問部長 |
| 00:12:05,000 | 00:12:07,000 | 如果讓你可以選擇的話 |
| 00:12:07,000 | 00:12:08,000 | 你要吃哪一顆 |
| 00:12:08,000 | 00:12:09,000 | 都一樣啦 |
| 00:12:09,000 | 00:12:11,000 | 因為我們都是經過安全這個 |
| 00:12:11,000 | 00:12:12,000 | 都一樣喔 |
| 00:12:12,000 | 00:12:14,000 | 都可以都可以都一樣 |
| 00:12:14,000 | 00:12:16,000 | 那你跟一般正常人不太一樣 |
| 00:12:16,000 | 00:12:19,000 | 如果是一般的正常人的話 |
| 00:12:19,000 | 00:12:22,000 | 我相信大家寧可選這一顆 |
| 00:12:22,000 | 00:12:24,000 | 0.5ppm為什麼 |
| 00:12:24,000 | 00:12:28,000 | 農藥當然是吃越少越好不是嗎 |
| 00:12:28,000 | 00:12:30,000 | 我們自己對自己的健康我們最在乎了 |
| 00:12:30,000 | 00:12:32,000 | 更何況大家說什麼 |
| 00:12:32,000 | 00:12:34,000 | 天天一蘋果 |
| 00:12:34,000 | 00:12:35,000 | 然後呢 |
| 00:12:35,000 | 00:12:37,000 | 下一句 |
| 00:12:38,000 | 00:12:40,000 | 醫師的臉都綠了 |
| 00:12:40,000 | 00:12:41,000 | 是這一句嗎 |
| 00:12:41,000 | 00:12:43,000 | 醫師可以遠離我 |
| 00:12:43,000 | 00:12:44,000 | 對不對 |
| 00:12:44,000 | 00:12:46,000 | 天天一蘋果 |
| 00:12:46,000 | 00:12:48,000 | 醫師可以遠離我 |
| 00:12:48,000 | 00:12:49,000 | 我為什麼部長 |
| 00:12:49,000 | 00:12:50,000 | 你們現在還不知道 |
| 00:12:50,000 | 00:12:51,000 | 為什麼這次蘋果的風暴 |
| 00:12:51,000 | 00:12:53,000 | 引發這麼大的民怨 |
| 00:12:53,000 | 00:12:57,000 | 因為很多人把蘋果這個水果 |
| 00:12:57,000 | 00:12:59,000 | 是當成天天吃 |
| 00:12:59,000 | 00:13:02,000 | 而且要小朋友天天吃 |
| 00:13:02,000 | 00:13:03,000 | 你知道很多的小朋友 |
| 00:13:03,000 | 00:13:05,000 | 你看我們很多醫師人在點頭 |
| 00:13:05,000 | 00:13:09,000 | 他要他的小朋友天天吃蘋果 |
| 00:13:09,000 | 00:13:11,000 | 因為醫師可以遠離我 |
| 00:13:11,000 | 00:13:15,000 | 這是被視為是健康的國民的水果 |
| 00:13:15,000 | 00:13:19,000 | 所以在這樣的一個品項上面 |
| 00:13:19,000 | 00:13:21,000 | 你說專家會議 |
| 00:13:21,000 | 00:13:23,000 | 然後就把它放寬六倍 |
| 00:13:23,000 | 00:13:25,000 | 我跟你說你去市場問 |
| 00:13:25,000 | 00:13:28,000 | 很多人的反彈超乎你的想像 |
| 00:13:28,000 | 00:13:30,000 | 為什麼剛剛一開始 |
| 00:13:30,000 | 00:13:32,000 | 我們就要透過這樣的一個臨時提案 |
| 00:13:32,000 | 00:13:35,000 | 因為民意代表是反應民意 |
| 00:13:35,000 | 00:13:38,000 | 這真的是民怨怨翻天了 |
| 00:13:38,000 | 00:13:39,000 | 更何況你知道蘋果 |
| 00:13:39,000 | 00:13:40,000 | 有一些小baby |
| 00:13:40,000 | 00:13:43,000 | 他還沒有辦法吃食物的時候 |
| 00:13:43,000 | 00:13:45,000 | 阿公阿嬤會很細心的 |
| 00:13:45,000 | 00:13:47,000 | 去刮那個蘋果泥 |
| 00:13:47,000 | 00:13:49,000 | 餵他的金孫你知道嗎 |
| 00:13:49,000 | 00:13:50,000 | 當你這個 |
| 00:13:50,000 | 00:13:53,000 | 你原本可以守住0.5ppm |
| 00:13:53,000 | 00:13:55,000 | 你硬要給他放寬的時候 |
| 00:13:55,000 | 00:13:57,000 | 民眾就怒了 |
| 00:13:57,000 | 00:13:59,000 | 民眾問一個問題 |
| 00:13:59,000 | 00:14:01,000 | 為什麼不能照原來的就好 |
| 00:14:01,000 | 00:14:03,000 | 為什麼要改 |
| 00:14:03,000 | 00:14:05,000 | 不改有什麼問題嗎 |
| 00:14:05,000 | 00:14:06,000 | 我今天就告訴你 |
| 00:14:06,000 | 00:14:09,000 | 我提出幾個數據我們來看 |
| 00:14:09,000 | 00:14:11,000 | 在美國他們自己的市場監測 |
| 00:14:11,000 | 00:14:13,000 | 2024年我找到的 |
| 00:14:13,000 | 00:14:16,000 | 他們704件蘋果 |
| 00:14:16,000 | 00:14:19,000 | 只有5件減出分普寧 |
| 00:14:19,000 | 00:14:23,000 | 它的濃度0.006到0.25 |
| 00:14:23,000 | 00:14:26,000 | 全部低於我們的0.5ppm |
| 00:14:26,000 | 00:14:29,000 | 另外一個我們的邊境進口 |
| 00:14:29,000 | 00:14:31,000 | 如果這個數字有錯 |
| 00:14:31,000 | 00:14:32,000 | 你們可以指出來 |
| 00:14:32,000 | 00:14:35,000 | 到目前為止美國進口來的蘋果 |
| 00:14:35,000 | 00:14:37,000 | 總共19p |
| 00:14:37,000 | 00:14:39,000 | 這19p當中 |
| 00:14:39,000 | 00:14:43,000 | 跟分普寧超標的是0p |
| 00:14:43,000 | 00:14:46,000 | 都是其他的農藥 |
| 00:14:46,000 | 00:14:49,000 | 為什麼要變更標準 |
| 00:14:49,000 | 00:14:50,000 | 這個就是我要問你的 |
| 00:14:50,000 | 00:14:51,000 | 再下一個 |
| 00:14:51,000 | 00:14:55,000 | 變更標準你們說是一個進口商提的 |
| 00:14:55,000 | 00:14:58,000 | 這一個進口商請問是 |
| 00:14:58,000 | 00:15:01,000 | 駐有化學農藥公司嗎 |
| 00:15:01,000 | 00:15:05,000 | 是Exponent代表駐有化學有限公司 |
| 00:15:05,000 | 00:15:08,000 | 申請進口的容許量嗎 |
| 00:15:08,000 | 00:15:10,000 | 是或不是請回答 |
| 00:15:10,000 | 00:15:12,000 | 是這樣嗎 |
| 00:15:12,000 | 00:15:15,000 | 上面這一層應該是一個 |
| 00:15:15,000 | 00:15:18,000 | Consultant一個顧問公司 |
| 00:15:18,000 | 00:15:21,000 | 代替日本駐有然後提出的申請 |
| 00:15:21,000 | 00:15:24,000 | 他是一家農藥公司對不對 |
| 00:15:24,000 | 00:15:28,000 | 上面這個應該是一個顧問公司 |
| 00:15:28,000 | 00:15:31,000 | 日本駐有化學是不是一間農藥公司 |
| 00:15:31,000 | 00:15:34,000 | 是有跟化學相關的公司 |
| 00:15:34,000 | 00:15:35,000 | 好 |
| 00:15:35,000 | 00:15:38,000 | 所以你是在幫一個 |
| 00:15:38,000 | 00:15:42,000 | 賣化學藥品賣農藥的公司 |
| 00:15:42,000 | 00:15:45,000 | 他透過顧問公司來申請 |
| 00:15:45,000 | 00:15:48,000 | 結果我們的政府就開專家會議 |
| 00:15:48,000 | 00:15:51,000 | 然後幫他放寬 |
| 00:15:51,000 | 00:15:53,000 | 有這等道理嗎 |
| 00:15:53,000 | 00:15:55,000 | 難道民眾都怒了 |
| 00:15:55,000 | 00:15:57,000 | 怎麼可以這樣 |
| 00:15:57,000 | 00:16:00,000 | 他不是農業團體 |
| 00:16:00,000 | 00:16:03,000 | 他不是台灣的農民說農藥這樣子 |
| 00:16:03,000 | 00:16:04,000 | 我們會種不下去 |
| 00:16:04,000 | 00:16:05,000 | 我要放寬 |
| 00:16:05,000 | 00:16:08,000 | 竟然是由日本駐有化學 |
| 00:16:08,000 | 00:16:11,000 | 然後他透過一個顧問公司來申請 |
| 00:16:11,000 | 00:16:13,000 | 你還好意思說是進口商 |
| 00:16:13,000 | 00:16:15,000 | 哪個進口商 |
| 00:16:15,000 | 00:16:18,000 | 日本就是一間賣農藥的化學公司 |
| 00:16:18,000 | 00:16:21,000 | 有這種道理嗎 |
| 00:16:21,000 | 00:16:22,000 | 美國賣蘋果 |
| 00:16:22,000 | 00:16:23,000 | 日本賣農藥 |
| 00:16:23,000 | 00:16:25,000 | 我們吃藥產的毒蘋果 |
| 00:16:25,000 | 00:16:28,000 | 還要放寬標準 |
| 00:16:28,000 | 00:16:30,000 | 本來0.5 |
| 00:16:30,000 | 00:16:34,000 | 0.5ppm沒有任何問題 |
| 00:16:34,000 | 00:16:36,000 | 也沒有放寬的理由 |
| 00:16:36,000 | 00:16:38,000 | 你們今天因為一個顧問公司 |
| 00:16:38,000 | 00:16:42,000 | 代表日本駐有化學來申請 |
| 00:16:42,000 | 00:16:43,000 | 然後就開會 |
| 00:16:43,000 | 00:16:45,000 | 然後就同意 |
| 00:16:45,000 | 00:16:47,000 | 然後就放寬 |
| 00:16:47,000 | 00:16:50,000 | 我們的食安是這樣子把關的嗎 |
| 00:16:50,000 | 00:16:54,000 | 我們是站在這個化學藥學公司這一邊嗎 |
| 00:16:54,000 | 00:16:57,000 | 是站在農藥商這一邊嗎 |
| 00:16:57,000 | 00:16:58,000 | 我們不是應該要站在 |
| 00:16:58,000 | 00:17:00,000 | 人民的健康這一邊嗎 |
| 00:17:00,000 | 00:17:01,000 | 可以這樣嗎 |
| 00:17:01,000 | 00:17:03,000 | 可以嗎 |
| 00:17:03,000 | 00:17:04,000 | 跟委員說明 |
| 00:17:04,000 | 00:17:06,000 | 我們當然在這個審查 |
| 00:17:06,000 | 00:17:07,000 | 我生氣 |
| 00:17:07,000 | 00:17:08,000 | 查了以後我非常的生氣 |
| 00:17:08,000 | 00:17:10,000 | 需要有很多的文件 |
| 00:17:10,000 | 00:17:12,000 | 專業的文件 |
| 00:17:12,000 | 00:17:13,000 | 不是文件的問題 |
| 00:17:13,000 | 00:17:15,000 | 這是必要性的問題 |
| 00:17:15,000 | 00:17:17,000 | 你為什麼要呼應 |
| 00:17:17,000 | 00:17:21,000 | 你為什麼要呼應這一些農藥商的呼應 |
| 00:17:21,000 | 00:17:24,000 | 我們在把關上面還是根據科學的證據 |
| 00:17:24,000 | 00:17:25,000 | 你不要再說科學了 |
| 00:17:25,000 | 00:17:27,000 | 我們現在來看下一張 |
| 00:17:27,000 | 00:17:30,000 | 我們看我們的食藥署都在做什麼 |
| 00:17:30,000 | 00:17:36,000 | 這一波所開放的174樣藥產的修正 |
| 00:17:36,000 | 00:17:38,000 | 你知道農民團體幾個 |
| 00:17:38,000 | 00:17:40,000 | 你們都是為了農民團體 |
| 00:17:40,000 | 00:17:42,000 | 我找到的資料現在是零 |
| 00:17:44,000 | 00:17:47,000 | 如果有錯誤你們可以來修正 |
| 00:17:47,000 | 00:17:51,000 | 農藥公司占了52.3% |
| 00:17:51,000 | 00:17:54,000 | 高達91項 |
| 00:17:54,000 | 00:17:57,000 | 請問我們的資益會是為了誰而開 |
| 00:17:57,000 | 00:18:01,000 | 跟委員說明這個大概這個資料上有一些誤解 |
| 00:18:01,000 | 00:18:04,000 | 因為在這裡面120項 |
| 00:18:04,000 | 00:18:06,000 | 都是國內農民的需要 |
| 00:18:06,000 | 00:18:08,000 | 那麼是透過農業部審查之後 |
| 00:18:08,000 | 00:18:11,000 | 所以沒有辦法直接看到是哪一個農民 |
| 00:18:11,000 | 00:18:14,000 | 是由農業部彙整之後提供給我們 |
| 00:18:14,000 | 00:18:15,000 | 是在哪一項 |
| 00:18:15,000 | 00:18:16,000 | 是在哪一個分類 |
| 00:18:16,000 | 00:18:17,000 | 120項 |
| 00:18:17,000 | 00:18:18,000 | 120項 |
| 00:18:18,000 | 00:18:24,000 | 裡面有30種農藥120項的MIL |
| 00:18:24,000 | 00:18:28,000 | 你把那個你們的資料提供給我 |
| 00:18:28,000 | 00:18:32,000 | 這個我要講的就是今天國會殿堂 |
| 00:18:32,000 | 00:18:35,000 | 我們是要幫人民發聲 |
| 00:18:35,000 | 00:18:36,000 | 在這件事情上面 |
| 00:18:36,000 | 00:18:40,000 | 我們絕對不允許是因為一個農藥公司的需求 |
| 00:18:40,000 | 00:18:43,000 | 然後你來放寬這樣的一個標準 |
| 00:18:43,000 | 00:18:44,000 | 最後我要講 |
| 00:18:44,000 | 00:18:47,000 | 為什麼連消基會都站出來講話了 |
| 00:18:47,000 | 00:18:51,000 | 你們雖然號稱說你現在都有預告有公告 |
| 00:18:51,000 | 00:18:53,000 | 坦白講沒有人在看 |
| 00:18:53,000 | 00:18:55,000 | 因為你在一個很冷僻的地方 |
| 00:18:55,000 | 00:18:57,000 | 所以消基會才會說 |
| 00:18:57,000 | 00:18:59,000 | 應該這一些重大的放寬 |
| 00:18:59,000 | 00:19:01,000 | 你要公告周知 |
| 00:19:01,000 | 00:19:03,000 | 你要開公聽會 |
| 00:19:03,000 | 00:19:05,000 | 絕對不是幾個專家說了算 |
| 00:19:05,000 | 00:19:08,000 | 以這一次你們開放的這個毒蘋果 |
| 00:19:08,000 | 00:19:11,000 | 要到這一個3PPM |
| 00:19:11,000 | 00:19:15,000 | 這個完全是社會沒有辦法接受的事情 |
| 00:19:15,000 | 00:19:17,000 | 所以你們應該要跟社會溝通 |
| 00:19:17,000 | 00:19:20,000 | 跟社會溝通你就是要廣告周知 |
| 00:19:20,000 | 00:19:21,000 | 你要開公聽會 |
| 00:19:21,000 | 00:19:23,000 | 不是少數幾個人說了算 |
| 00:19:23,000 | 00:19:28,000 | 另外一個未來像這種涉及重大的農藥放寬的 |
| 00:19:28,000 | 00:19:31,000 | 你們應該要含送立法院 |
| 00:19:31,000 | 00:19:33,000 | 至少國會是人民的殿堂 |
| 00:19:33,000 | 00:19:36,000 | 你們應該要讓立法院知道 |
| 00:19:36,000 | 00:19:38,000 | 送立法院備查 |
| 00:19:38,000 | 00:19:40,000 | 否則這一次你們174項 |
| 00:19:40,000 | 00:19:43,000 | 就幾個專家然後開完會 |
| 00:19:43,000 | 00:19:45,000 | 然後你們說了就算了 |
| 00:19:45,000 | 00:19:48,000 | 我覺得這個對於全民的食安風險太大了 |
| 00:19:48,000 | 00:19:50,000 | 這個部長你可以認同嗎 |
| 00:19:50,000 | 00:19:53,000 | 未來要跟公眾溝通要開公聽會 |
| 00:19:53,000 | 00:19:56,000 | 而且未來其實你們還應該要送立法院 |
| 00:19:56,000 | 00:19:59,000 | 這麼重大的大幅放寬上百項的 |
| 00:19:59,000 | 00:20:03,000 | 跟委員說明我們為民眾的食安把關 |
| 00:20:03,000 | 00:20:04,000 | 就是我們的責任 |
| 00:20:04,000 | 00:20:07,000 | 這個是責無旁貸也不容置疑 |
| 00:20:07,000 | 00:20:11,000 | 那麼在各項的標準的調整過程當中 |
| 00:20:11,000 | 00:20:14,000 | 請做嚴謹的科學評估 |
| 00:20:14,000 | 00:20:18,000 | 不過我們對外的溝通不足的部分 |
| 00:20:18,000 | 00:20:20,000 | 我們來強化 |
| 00:20:20,000 | 00:20:22,000 | 最後我要問一題是媒體請我問的 |
| 00:20:22,000 | 00:20:24,000 | 請問江志剛署長 |
| 00:20:24,000 | 00:20:27,000 | 今天會是最後一次你到立法院來嗎 |
| 00:20:27,000 | 00:20:30,000 | 剛剛媒體傳出來最新消息說 |
| 00:20:30,000 | 00:20:33,000 | 你這個禮拜就要離開是真的嗎 |
| 00:20:33,000 | 00:20:35,000 | 還是這是錯誤的訊息 |
| 00:20:37,000 | 00:20:39,000 | 這個我完全沒有得到這樣的訊息 |
| 00:20:39,000 | 00:20:42,000 | 署長所以部長沒有要署長離開嗎 |
| 00:20:42,000 | 00:20:43,000 | 沒有 |
| 00:20:43,000 | 00:20:44,000 | 也沒有這一個人事案嗎 |
| 00:20:44,000 | 00:20:46,000 | 我沒有得到這樣的訊息 |
| 00:20:46,000 | 00:20:48,000 | 那署長這禮拜會離開嗎 |
| 00:20:49,000 | 00:20:51,000 | 本人有被告知嗎 |
| 00:20:51,000 | 00:20:54,000 | 報告委員還有很多事情我們應該要好好把說明 |
| 00:20:54,000 | 00:20:56,000 | 所以你會繼續留下來嗎 |
| 00:20:56,000 | 00:21:00,000 | 我們現在最重要的責任就是確保所有民眾 |
| 00:21:00,000 | 00:21:04,000 | 擁有或者是任何的食安的確保 |
| 00:21:04,000 | 00:21:05,000 | 這個是我們的責任 |
| 00:21:05,000 | 00:21:06,000 | 好謝謝 |