iVOD / 170651
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邱慧洳 @
| Start Time | End Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00:00,000 | 00:00:12,480 | 主席還有各位委員各位政府部門同仁大家好 |
| 00:00:12,480 | 00:00:14,680 | 那有請那個部長 時部長 |
| 00:00:14,680 | 00:00:18,280 | 有請左呃那個江署長 |
| 00:00:18,280 | 00:00:19,280 | 請江署長 |
| 00:00:19,280 | 00:00:19,760 | 好 |
| 00:00:19,760 | 00:00:20,400 | 委員早 |
| 00:00:20,400 | 00:00:21,200 | 是 |
| 00:00:21,200 | 00:00:25,040 | 呃 我今天呢 |
| 00:00:25,040 | 00:00:27,360 | 想跟兩位質詢呢 |
| 00:00:27,360 | 00:00:27,860 | 好 |
| 00:00:27,860 | 00:00:28,860 | 三件事 |
| 00:00:28,860 | 00:00:30,860 | 第一件事是毒果 |
| 00:00:30,860 | 00:00:32,360 | 第二件事是毒友 |
| 00:00:32,360 | 00:00:33,860 | 第三件事是毒蛇 |
| 00:00:33,860 | 00:00:34,360 | 好 |
| 00:00:34,360 | 00:00:36,360 | 那我們從這三個事件呢 |
| 00:00:36,360 | 00:00:37,360 | 可以看到 |
| 00:00:37,360 | 00:00:39,360 | 衛福部的螺絲真的是掉滿地 |
| 00:00:39,360 | 00:00:40,360 | 好 |
| 00:00:40,360 | 00:00:42,360 | 那我們先講第一個問題 |
| 00:00:42,360 | 00:00:44,360 | 第一個問題就是毒果的問題 |
| 00:00:44,360 | 00:00:45,360 | 那毒果呢 |
| 00:00:45,360 | 00:00:48,360 | 雖然你們聽到毒蘋果三個字 |
| 00:00:48,360 | 00:00:49,360 | 不喜歡 |
| 00:00:49,360 | 00:00:50,360 | 不認同 |
| 00:00:50,360 | 00:00:51,360 | 但是我必須說 |
| 00:00:51,360 | 00:00:53,360 | 在人民的主觀感受裡面 |
| 00:00:53,360 | 00:00:55,360 | 雖然它不是這個分譜名 |
| 00:00:55,360 | 00:00:56,360 | 好 |
| 00:00:56,360 | 00:00:57,360 | 但是呢 |
| 00:00:57,360 | 00:01:01,360 | 你本來從0.5的ppm提升到6倍 |
| 00:01:01,360 | 00:01:02,360 | 也就是3 |
| 00:01:02,360 | 00:01:04,360 | 這2.5ppm的差距 |
| 00:01:04,360 | 00:01:06,360 | 在人民的感受裡頭 |
| 00:01:06,360 | 00:01:07,360 | 它就是毒 |
| 00:01:07,360 | 00:01:09,360 | 就是我們要再多吃一點毒 |
| 00:01:09,360 | 00:01:10,360 | 就是這種感受 |
| 00:01:10,360 | 00:01:13,360 | 所以我覺得你們不要否認 |
| 00:01:13,360 | 00:01:14,360 | 那是毒蘋果 |
| 00:01:14,360 | 00:01:16,360 | 因為在人民的感受裡頭 |
| 00:01:16,360 | 00:01:18,360 | 多吃農藥的殘留 |
| 00:01:18,360 | 00:01:20,360 | 其實對他們來說就是多吃毒 |
| 00:01:20,360 | 00:01:21,360 | 好 |
| 00:01:21,360 | 00:01:23,360 | 那現在想跟您請教呢 |
| 00:01:23,360 | 00:01:24,360 | 就是說 |
| 00:01:24,360 | 00:01:25,360 | 草莓呢 |
| 00:01:25,360 | 00:01:27,360 | 它的ppm這次也放寬了 |
| 00:01:27,360 | 00:01:28,360 | 從1放寬到2 |
| 00:01:28,360 | 00:01:29,360 | 日本呢 |
| 00:01:29,360 | 00:01:31,360 | 對於蘋果的這個農藥殘留呢 |
| 00:01:31,360 | 00:01:33,360 | 它訂的標準也是2 |
| 00:01:33,360 | 00:01:35,360 | 那為什麼我們如果要放寬 |
| 00:01:35,360 | 00:01:37,360 | 我們不能夠對齊2 |
| 00:01:37,360 | 00:01:39,360 | 我們確實要放寬3 |
| 00:01:39,360 | 00:01:41,360 | 好 那有人在懷疑 |
| 00:01:41,360 | 00:01:43,360 | 因為美國是5 |
| 00:01:43,360 | 00:01:44,360 | 那如果你放寬為3 |
| 00:01:44,360 | 00:01:46,360 | 雖然美國的蘋果不會全部進來 |
| 00:01:46,360 | 00:01:49,360 | 但是可以讓大部分的蘋果進來 |
| 00:01:49,360 | 00:01:51,360 | 那不知道部長這邊怎麼回應 |
| 00:01:51,360 | 00:01:52,360 | 好 |
| 00:01:52,360 | 00:01:56,360 | 部長在訂這個農藥的mr |
| 00:01:56,360 | 00:01:57,360 | 當然我們都希望 |
| 00:01:57,360 | 00:01:58,360 | 大家都不要用農藥 |
| 00:01:58,360 | 00:01:59,360 | 這是最好 |
| 00:01:59,360 | 00:02:02,360 | 但是在現實的世界裡面 |
| 00:02:02,360 | 00:02:04,360 | 那麼為了糧食的供應 |
| 00:02:04,360 | 00:02:06,360 | 那麼它有它的絕對的必要 |
| 00:02:06,360 | 00:02:07,360 | 所以我們現在糧食有必要 |
| 00:02:07,360 | 00:02:09,360 | 所以我們才會再去訂 |
| 00:02:09,360 | 00:02:11,360 | 農藥的mr |
| 00:02:11,360 | 00:02:13,360 | 那在訂定的過程當中 |
| 00:02:13,360 | 00:02:15,360 | 當然我們是會參考 |
| 00:02:15,360 | 00:02:18,360 | 每一個這個施作的情形 |
| 00:02:18,360 | 00:02:20,360 | 每一類的農作物的施作 |
| 00:02:20,360 | 00:02:22,360 | 田野施作是不一樣的 |
| 00:02:22,360 | 00:02:25,360 | 所以它會按照它的施作的情形去訂 |
| 00:02:25,360 | 00:02:27,360 | 部長我覺得你長話短說好了 |
| 00:02:27,360 | 00:02:30,360 | 我們不會直接說去對齊哪一個國家 |
| 00:02:30,360 | 00:02:31,360 | 這不會的 |
| 00:02:31,360 | 00:02:33,360 | 因為我在想你今天可能會變貴 |
| 00:02:33,360 | 00:02:34,360 | 因為韓國是3ppm |
| 00:02:34,360 | 00:02:38,360 | 對 我們不用一定要對齊人家 |
| 00:02:38,360 | 00:02:41,360 | 但是人家可以採取比較低 |
| 00:02:41,360 | 00:02:42,360 | 這個都是我們 |
| 00:02:42,360 | 00:02:44,360 | 人家的標準比較低 |
| 00:02:44,360 | 00:02:46,360 | 為什麼我們要比別人高 |
| 00:02:46,360 | 00:02:47,360 | 我們看一下你昨天 |
| 00:02:47,360 | 00:02:49,360 | 接受採訪是怎麼說的 |
| 00:02:49,360 | 00:02:51,360 | 人家問你那個本評比的標準 |
| 00:02:51,360 | 00:02:52,360 | 是不是要調整 |
| 00:02:52,360 | 00:02:54,360 | 你說關於食安的標準 |
| 00:02:54,360 | 00:02:56,360 | 當然是越高越好 |
| 00:02:56,360 | 00:02:57,360 | 當然是越高越好 |
| 00:02:57,360 | 00:03:00,360 | 人民的感受裡頭就是食安的標準越高越好 |
| 00:03:00,360 | 00:03:02,360 | 沒有人想要越低越好 |
| 00:03:02,360 | 00:03:04,360 | 那當然目前就是0.5 |
| 00:03:04,360 | 00:03:05,360 | 但是你反其道而行 |
| 00:03:05,360 | 00:03:08,360 | 你就是讓我們的食安標準數字往上提升 |
| 00:03:08,360 | 00:03:11,360 | 換個角度講就是食安的標準越來越低 |
| 00:03:11,360 | 00:03:13,360 | 這完全跟你昨天講的話背道而馳 |
| 00:03:13,360 | 00:03:15,360 | 那現在就是0.5 |
| 00:03:15,360 | 00:03:18,360 | 對齊國際標準進行施齊 |
| 00:03:18,360 | 00:03:20,360 | 但是現在問題是你也沒有對準 |
| 00:03:20,360 | 00:03:22,360 | 那也沒有一定要對準 |
| 00:03:22,360 | 00:03:25,360 | 但是你今天你的數字要給人民一個說法 |
| 00:03:25,360 | 00:03:29,360 | 那請問一下你這個提高到3ppm |
| 00:03:29,360 | 00:03:30,360 | 對人民的健康 |
| 00:03:30,360 | 00:03:32,360 | 我知道你們的說法健康無虞 |
| 00:03:32,360 | 00:03:33,360 | 但是人民所關心的 |
| 00:03:33,360 | 00:03:35,360 | 消基會所關心的 |
| 00:03:35,360 | 00:03:37,360 | 不是第一時間吃進去會不會中毒 |
| 00:03:37,360 | 00:03:40,360 | 是日積月累的農藥的殘留量 |
| 00:03:40,360 | 00:03:43,360 | 吃了蘋果吃了草莓吃了梨子 |
| 00:03:43,360 | 00:03:45,360 | 全部累積起來日積月累 |
| 00:03:45,360 | 00:03:48,360 | 他可能會造成一個累積的危害效果 |
| 00:03:48,360 | 00:03:50,360 | 我們擔心的是這一個 |
| 00:03:50,360 | 00:03:52,360 | 跟委員說明 |
| 00:03:52,360 | 00:03:55,360 | 因為所有的這個都還有經過人體的代謝 |
| 00:03:55,360 | 00:03:57,360 | 所以到底是 |
| 00:03:57,360 | 00:04:00,360 | 所以在這個評估的時候 |
| 00:04:00,360 | 00:04:01,360 | 所以在這個評估的時候 |
| 00:04:01,360 | 00:04:02,360 | 所以在這個評估的時候 |
| 00:04:02,360 | 00:04:03,360 | 多喝水就好了 |
| 00:04:03,360 | 00:04:05,360 | 多喝水那所有的標準都不用訂了嗎 |
| 00:04:05,360 | 00:04:08,360 | 政府也不用期待他幫我們保管 |
| 00:04:08,360 | 00:04:10,360 | 只要人民來多喝水就可以了 |
| 00:04:10,360 | 00:04:13,360 | 好那現在我再反映一下 |
| 00:04:13,360 | 00:04:15,360 | 消基會跟人民的行程 |
| 00:04:15,360 | 00:04:18,360 | 雖然這個PPM這個從0.5提升到3 |
| 00:04:18,360 | 00:04:20,360 | 這個不是一個毒性的標準 |
| 00:04:20,360 | 00:04:22,360 | 但是他是一個食安的標準 |
| 00:04:22,360 | 00:04:25,360 | 你每開放一次就是告訴人們 |
| 00:04:25,360 | 00:04:29,360 | 我們的政府容忍人體能夠多增加一點農藥的殘留量 |
| 00:04:29,360 | 00:04:32,360 | 我們的政府都無所謂都不管 |
| 00:04:32,360 | 00:04:34,360 | 從過去很長期的話 |
| 00:04:34,360 | 00:04:38,360 | 這個標準的設立都是長期在滾動修正的 |
| 00:04:38,360 | 00:04:40,360 | 對那你現在 |
| 00:04:40,360 | 00:04:42,360 | 提升到這種程度 |
| 00:04:42,360 | 00:04:45,360 | 你有沒有跟公眾說明為什麼 |
| 00:04:45,360 | 00:04:47,360 | 你只有三行話 |
| 00:04:47,360 | 00:04:51,360 | 你今天有說113年到現在 |
| 00:04:51,360 | 00:04:53,360 | 所以我們都是依據需求 |
| 00:04:53,360 | 00:04:55,360 | 然後再經過一定的程序 |
| 00:04:55,360 | 00:04:58,360 | 經過專家委員的討論之後 |
| 00:04:58,360 | 00:05:00,360 | 你只告訴大家三言兩語 |
| 00:05:00,360 | 00:05:02,360 | 我們沒有看到中間的科學數據 |
| 00:05:02,360 | 00:05:05,360 | 我們可以把這個科學數據提供給委員 |
| 00:05:05,360 | 00:05:06,360 | 提供給我你不要提供給我 |
| 00:05:06,360 | 00:05:07,360 | 你要提供給人民 |
| 00:05:07,360 | 00:05:08,360 | 你也不要只對我說明 |
| 00:05:08,360 | 00:05:10,360 | 你要提供給全人民 |
| 00:05:10,360 | 00:05:14,360 | 你這個在113年的4月21號就公告了 |
| 00:05:14,360 | 00:05:15,360 | 如果你的說明足夠 |
| 00:05:15,360 | 00:05:17,360 | 我們今天不會站在這邊質詢 |
| 00:05:17,360 | 00:05:19,360 | 因為我們是在一月就做預告 |
| 00:05:19,360 | 00:05:21,360 | 我們有完整的60天的 |
| 00:05:21,360 | 00:05:23,360 | 你的規則有出來 |
| 00:05:23,360 | 00:05:25,360 | 但是我們沒有看到理由 |
| 00:05:25,360 | 00:05:28,360 | 那大家呢其實你沒有說明 |
| 00:05:28,360 | 00:05:31,360 | 大家就會懷疑說是美國因素 |
| 00:05:31,360 | 00:05:32,360 | 那蕭基會呢 |
| 00:05:32,360 | 00:05:35,360 | 我想他非常的有這個權威性 |
| 00:05:35,360 | 00:05:37,360 | 他說只要美國政府提出的 |
| 00:05:37,360 | 00:05:39,360 | 我們政府就會配合 |
| 00:05:39,360 | 00:05:40,360 | 而且是給五毛 |
| 00:05:40,360 | 00:05:41,360 | 要五毛給一塊 |
| 00:05:41,360 | 00:05:43,360 | 那如果你沒有詳細的說明 |
| 00:05:43,360 | 00:05:45,360 | 其實就很像了 |
| 00:05:45,360 | 00:05:48,360 | 這個完全是沒有根據的說法 |
| 00:05:48,360 | 00:05:50,360 | 我們沒有說美國的要求 |
| 00:05:50,360 | 00:05:52,360 | 就是五毛給一塊 |
| 00:05:52,360 | 00:05:54,360 | 這個完全是沒有根據的說法 |
| 00:05:54,360 | 00:05:55,360 | 因為你沒有說明 |
| 00:05:55,360 | 00:05:56,360 | 大家就會這樣子去懷疑 |
| 00:05:56,360 | 00:05:58,360 | 好來那我現在請教一件事 |
| 00:05:58,360 | 00:06:00,360 | 就是說為什麼0.5要提高 |
| 00:06:00,360 | 00:06:01,360 | 大幅的提高 |
| 00:06:01,360 | 00:06:02,360 | 為什麼 |
| 00:06:02,360 | 00:06:05,360 | 你不要跟我講說 |
| 00:06:05,360 | 00:06:07,360 | 這個過去 |
| 00:06:07,360 | 00:06:08,360 | 這個過去呢 |
| 00:06:08,360 | 00:06:10,360 | 你們做了三年的調查 |
| 00:06:10,360 | 00:06:13,360 | 過去在蘋果放在離國類的大類 |
| 00:06:13,360 | 00:06:16,360 | 這些都是一個犯犯偷向的說辭 |
| 00:06:16,360 | 00:06:17,360 | 蘋果獨立列向 |
| 00:06:17,360 | 00:06:19,360 | 然後經過風險評估 |
| 00:06:19,360 | 00:06:21,360 | 經過我們的這個專家會議 |
| 00:06:21,360 | 00:06:23,360 | 討論之後所訂定的 |
| 00:06:23,360 | 00:06:25,360 | 好那你為什麼不在 |
| 00:06:25,360 | 00:06:27,360 | 4月21號公告的同時 |
| 00:06:27,360 | 00:06:29,360 | 把我們剛蕭基會的四大訴求 |
| 00:06:29,360 | 00:06:31,360 | 一併的說明 |
| 00:06:31,360 | 00:06:33,360 | 你為什麼不在 |
| 00:06:33,360 | 00:06:35,360 | 4月21號公告的時候 |
| 00:06:35,360 | 00:06:37,360 | 一併把這些我們所要求的 |
| 00:06:37,360 | 00:06:39,360 | 科學依據做說明 |
| 00:06:39,360 | 00:06:41,360 | 而是我們理髮委員已經站在這邊 |
| 00:06:41,360 | 00:06:43,360 | 竟然提出了臨時訴求 |
| 00:06:43,360 | 00:06:45,360 | 你才準備在一個禮拜之前 |
| 00:06:45,360 | 00:06:47,360 | 之後回應 |
| 00:06:47,360 | 00:06:49,360 | 我們在1月做預告的時候 |
| 00:06:49,360 | 00:06:50,360 | 沒有提出這些訴求 |
| 00:06:50,360 | 00:06:52,360 | 如果我們在1月預告的時候 |
| 00:06:52,360 | 00:06:53,360 | 就提出這些訴求 |
| 00:06:53,360 | 00:06:55,360 | 我們也會這樣做 |
| 00:06:55,360 | 00:06:57,360 | 這個都是後面我們已經 |
| 00:06:57,360 | 00:06:59,360 | 公告之後 |
| 00:06:59,360 | 00:07:01,360 | 我們來看一下喔 |
| 00:07:01,360 | 00:07:03,360 | 食安的專家 |
| 00:07:03,360 | 00:07:05,360 | 他說只要是食安的標準 |
| 00:07:05,360 | 00:07:07,360 | 有提高政府就應該 |
| 00:07:07,360 | 00:07:09,360 | 要主動的揭露主動的溝通 |
| 00:07:09,360 | 00:07:11,360 | 給所有的利害關係人 |
| 00:07:11,360 | 00:07:13,360 | 所以你應該主動的溝通 |
| 00:07:13,360 | 00:07:15,360 | 主動的揭露 |
| 00:07:15,360 | 00:07:17,360 | 而不是說當時大家沒有提出疑問 |
| 00:07:17,360 | 00:07:19,360 | 所以你公告那等人民有提出疑問 |
| 00:07:19,360 | 00:07:21,360 | 你再來慢慢溝通 |
| 00:07:21,360 | 00:07:23,360 | 而且你人民有提出疑問 |
| 00:07:23,360 | 00:07:25,360 | 等你再來慢慢溝通的時候 |
| 00:07:25,360 | 00:07:27,360 | 其實已經讓人家看到整個政府的 |
| 00:07:27,360 | 00:07:29,360 | 失能跟失序了 |
| 00:07:29,360 | 00:07:31,360 | 館長請問一下你認不認同 |
| 00:07:31,360 | 00:07:33,360 | 如果我們有這個溝通的不足的 |
| 00:07:33,360 | 00:07:35,360 | 我們來檢討 |
| 00:07:35,360 | 00:07:37,360 | 所以應該要主動 |
| 00:07:37,360 | 00:07:39,360 | 資料結識 |
| 00:07:39,360 | 00:07:41,360 | 再來要主動溝通請問一下 |
| 00:07:41,360 | 00:07:43,360 | 蘋果從0.5開放 |
| 00:07:43,360 | 00:07:45,360 | 到3ppm這件事 |
| 00:07:45,360 | 00:07:47,360 | 有沒有主動的說明有沒有主動的溝通 |
| 00:07:47,360 | 00:07:49,360 | 有沒有 |
| 00:07:49,360 | 00:07:51,360 | 這個都有經過相關的會議 |
| 00:07:51,360 | 00:07:53,360 | 相關的會議是你們內部的 |
| 00:07:53,360 | 00:07:55,360 | 就像20%的有以上以下 |
| 00:07:55,360 | 00:07:57,360 | 是你們內部的 |
| 00:07:57,360 | 00:07:59,360 | 主動來跟利害關係人 |
| 00:07:59,360 | 00:08:01,360 | 來做一個主動的溝通跟主動的揭露 |
| 00:08:01,360 | 00:08:03,360 | 檢答題嗎有或沒有嗎 |
| 00:08:03,360 | 00:08:05,360 | 我們都有進行溝通 |
| 00:08:05,360 | 00:08:07,360 | 不過如果有溝通不足的地方 |
| 00:08:07,360 | 00:08:09,360 | 我們未來來改進 |
| 00:08:09,360 | 00:08:11,360 | 好來署長你認同這樣的說法嗎 |
| 00:08:11,360 | 00:08:13,360 | 十三標準改變的話要主動溝通 |
| 00:08:13,360 | 00:08:15,360 | 主動揭露 |
| 00:08:15,360 | 00:08:17,360 | 謝謝委員的指教 |
| 00:08:17,360 | 00:08:19,360 | 完全認同 |
| 00:08:19,360 | 00:08:21,360 | 對於風險的溝通的部分 |
| 00:08:21,360 | 00:08:23,360 | 因為所有的利害關係者 |
| 00:08:23,360 | 00:08:25,360 | 要讓所有人都能夠清楚知道 |
| 00:08:25,360 | 00:08:27,360 | 好所以你 |
| 00:08:27,360 | 00:08:29,360 | 完全認同嗎 |
| 00:08:29,360 | 00:08:31,360 | 你完全認同嗎 |
| 00:08:31,360 | 00:08:33,360 | 只是說困難度的問題 |
| 00:08:33,360 | 00:08:35,360 | 你覺得你當了署長之後 |
| 00:08:35,360 | 00:08:37,360 | 你發現有困難度 |
| 00:08:37,360 | 00:08:39,360 | 所有的利害關係者給予 |
| 00:08:39,360 | 00:08:41,360 | 那你們都認同 |
| 00:08:41,360 | 00:08:43,360 | 但是呢你們卻是用一張文宣品 |
| 00:08:43,360 | 00:08:45,360 | 就在打發所有的利害關係人 |
| 00:08:45,360 | 00:08:47,360 | 你們只是用一張 |
| 00:08:47,360 | 00:08:49,360 | 這樣的文宣品就在打發所有的關係人 |
| 00:08:49,360 | 00:08:51,360 | 你們覺得 |
| 00:08:51,360 | 00:08:53,360 | 這樣的完整度文宣品的完整度 |
| 00:08:53,360 | 00:08:55,360 | 跟科學度跟資料的仔細度 |
| 00:08:55,360 | 00:08:57,360 | 其實跟消災機會的 |
| 00:08:57,360 | 00:08:59,360 | 四個訴求呼應的起來嗎 |
| 00:08:59,360 | 00:09:01,360 | 好像是 |
| 00:09:01,360 | 00:09:03,360 | 拿小學生的作業 |
| 00:09:03,360 | 00:09:05,360 | 要去呼應這個 |
| 00:09:05,360 | 00:09:07,360 | 我們人民心中所期待 |
| 00:09:07,360 | 00:09:09,360 | 一個要至少大學級 |
| 00:09:09,360 | 00:09:11,360 | 碩士級博士級的說明 |
| 00:09:11,360 | 00:09:13,360 | 完全沒有 |
| 00:09:13,360 | 00:09:15,360 | 所以一張文宣品就要打發 |
| 00:09:15,360 | 00:09:17,360 | 所以我現在只是想問署長 |
| 00:09:17,360 | 00:09:19,360 | 學者在講啦 |
| 00:09:19,360 | 00:09:21,360 | 你署長有沒有在聽啦 |
| 00:09:21,360 | 00:09:23,360 | 有沒有主動的溝通啦 |
| 00:09:23,360 | 00:09:25,360 | 有沒有在聽學者在講署長有沒有在聽 |
| 00:09:27,360 | 00:09:29,360 | 我們持續的進進前 |
| 00:09:29,360 | 00:09:31,360 | 我現在告訴你 |
| 00:09:31,360 | 00:09:33,360 | 2026年的署長 |
| 00:09:33,360 | 00:09:35,360 | 顯然 |
| 00:09:35,360 | 00:09:37,360 | 對這個學者 |
| 00:09:37,360 | 00:09:39,360 | 其實是沒有完全以為然 |
| 00:09:39,360 | 00:09:41,360 | 因為當時這個學者 |
| 00:09:41,360 | 00:09:43,360 | 誇誇其詞完全沒想到 |
| 00:09:43,360 | 00:09:45,360 | 實務的困境 |
| 00:09:45,360 | 00:09:47,360 | 就是說要主動溝通要主動揭示 |
| 00:09:47,360 | 00:09:49,360 | 等他當了署長之後 |
| 00:09:49,360 | 00:09:51,360 | 問題一大堆困境一大堆 |
| 00:09:51,360 | 00:09:53,360 | 阻力一大堆 |
| 00:09:53,360 | 00:09:55,360 | 署長你知道這是哪一個學者了嗎 |
| 00:09:55,360 | 00:09:57,360 | 我給你這麼多線索跟暗示 |
| 00:09:57,360 | 00:09:59,360 | 你知道哪個學者了嗎 |
| 00:09:59,360 | 00:10:01,360 | 這個就是您的 |
| 00:10:01,360 | 00:10:03,360 | 發言被記錄下來 |
| 00:10:03,360 | 00:10:05,360 | 在一個叫農傳媒的 |
| 00:10:05,360 | 00:10:07,360 | 一個報導當中做一個 |
| 00:10:07,360 | 00:10:09,360 | 披露你當時在 |
| 00:10:09,360 | 00:10:11,360 | 當學者的時候沒有講這麼多 |
| 00:10:11,360 | 00:10:13,360 | 實務困境沒有講這麼多阻力 |
| 00:10:13,360 | 00:10:15,360 | 那真的是換了一個位置 |
| 00:10:15,360 | 00:10:17,360 | 那這個專業的論述也會做了 |
| 00:10:17,360 | 00:10:19,360 | 一些折扣 |
| 00:10:19,360 | 00:10:21,360 | 跟委員報告我對於 |
| 00:10:21,360 | 00:10:23,360 | 食品安全的科學評估 |
| 00:10:23,360 | 00:10:25,360 | 風險評估風險分析 |
| 00:10:25,360 | 00:10:27,360 | 包含風險溝通 |
| 00:10:27,360 | 00:10:29,360 | 風險評估跟風險管理的 |
| 00:10:29,360 | 00:10:31,360 | 理念跟執行從來都 |
| 00:10:31,360 | 00:10:33,360 | 沒有改變可是當你身體 |
| 00:10:33,360 | 00:10:35,360 | 力行的時候你就是用一張文宣 |
| 00:10:35,360 | 00:10:37,360 | 品在打發全部的厲害 |
| 00:10:37,360 | 00:10:39,360 | 關係人嘛你不是說要跟所有 |
| 00:10:39,360 | 00:10:41,360 | 的政府應該主動跟 |
| 00:10:41,360 | 00:10:43,360 | 所有的厲害關係人請問一下政府 |
| 00:10:43,360 | 00:10:45,360 | 有主動嗎有主動的話今天立法 |
| 00:10:45,360 | 00:10:47,360 | 委員就不會站在這邊質詢了 |
| 00:10:47,360 | 00:10:49,360 | 那所以沒有主動 |
| 00:10:49,360 | 00:10:51,360 | 完全沒有主動那你說 |
| 00:10:51,360 | 00:10:53,360 | 食物有食物的困境那我們現在知道了 |
| 00:10:53,360 | 00:10:55,360 | 學者可以高談 |
| 00:10:55,360 | 00:10:57,360 | 課問學者可以高談課論 |
| 00:10:57,360 | 00:10:59,360 | 他在高談課論的時候怎麼他 |
| 00:10:59,360 | 00:11:01,360 | 沒有想到食物的困境等他當 |
| 00:11:01,360 | 00:11:03,360 | 組長的時候就想到 |
| 00:11:03,360 | 00:11:05,360 | 食物的困境到底是2026 |
| 00:11:05,360 | 00:11:07,360 | 的署長有問題 |
| 00:11:07,360 | 00:11:09,360 | 還是2017的江志剛 |
| 00:11:09,360 | 00:11:11,360 | 學者有問題這個答案留待大家 |
| 00:11:11,360 | 00:11:13,360 | 自己去公平好 |
| 00:11:13,360 | 00:11:15,360 | 那我現在請教一件事就是 |
| 00:11:15,360 | 00:11:17,360 | 回到油品油品呢 |
| 00:11:17,360 | 00:11:19,360 | 道歉也像擠牙膏 |
| 00:11:19,360 | 00:11:21,360 | 這個7月8號 |
| 00:11:21,360 | 00:11:23,360 | 的時候部長你道歉過一次 |
| 00:11:23,360 | 00:11:25,360 | 說為政策反覆來道歉 |
| 00:11:25,360 | 00:11:27,360 | 然後呢這個卓榮泰 |
| 00:11:27,360 | 00:11:29,360 | 院長在17號跟18號也 |
| 00:11:29,360 | 00:11:31,360 | 都為沒有第一時間查到 |
| 00:11:31,360 | 00:11:33,360 | 所有的這個問題油品的道歉 |
| 00:11:33,360 | 00:11:35,360 | 道歉感覺像 |
| 00:11:35,360 | 00:11:37,360 | 擠牙膏東擠 |
| 00:11:37,360 | 00:11:39,360 | 一點西擠一點 |
| 00:11:39,360 | 00:11:41,360 | 那我現在的問題就是說 |
| 00:11:41,360 | 00:11:43,360 | 可不可以有一個像樣的道歉 |
| 00:11:43,360 | 00:11:45,360 | 有一個像樣的道歉 |
| 00:11:45,360 | 00:11:47,360 | 對於油品流向不明 |
| 00:11:47,360 | 00:11:49,360 | 道歉對於損害的 |
| 00:11:49,360 | 00:11:51,360 | 擴大道歉對於這個 |
| 00:11:51,360 | 00:11:53,360 | 獨有事件到現在還沒有止血道歉 |
| 00:11:53,360 | 00:11:55,360 | 可不可以有一個認認真真 |
| 00:11:55,360 | 00:11:57,360 | 的道歉給我們全國的人民 |
| 00:11:57,360 | 00:11:59,360 | 來看這個政府不是失能的 |
| 00:11:59,360 | 00:12:01,360 | 是有肩膀的願意負起 |
| 00:12:01,360 | 00:12:03,360 | 責任的 |
| 00:12:03,360 | 00:12:05,360 | 有沒有一個像樣的道歉 |
| 00:12:05,360 | 00:12:07,360 | 對於這一次4月到6月 |
| 00:12:07,360 | 00:12:09,360 | 那麼中聯所生產的這些油品 |
| 00:12:09,360 | 00:12:11,360 | 那麼我們都已經調查完畢 |
| 00:12:11,360 | 00:12:13,360 | 那麼證明了就是 |
| 00:12:13,360 | 00:12:15,360 | 有7批的油品 |
| 00:12:15,360 | 00:12:17,360 | 是超標的有前面性的下架 |
| 00:12:17,360 | 00:12:19,360 | 那麼至於其他的批示 |
| 00:12:19,360 | 00:12:21,360 | 就是不想給一個像樣的道歉 |
| 00:12:21,360 | 00:12:23,360 | 就是不想認真認真道歉 |
| 00:12:23,360 | 00:12:25,360 | 那麼可以安全的上架 |
| 00:12:25,360 | 00:12:27,360 | 那麼自己就在這個過程當中 |
| 00:12:27,360 | 00:12:29,360 | 如果不是因為人民覺得你的誠意不足 |
| 00:12:29,360 | 00:12:31,360 | 7月25號不會有大規模的人民 |
| 00:12:31,360 | 00:12:33,360 | 要上街頭來跟這個失能的政府來抗議 |
| 00:12:33,360 | 00:12:35,360 | 今天有一個 |
| 00:12:35,360 | 00:12:37,360 | 可以讓我們看到 |
| 00:12:37,360 | 00:12:39,360 | 今天有一個可以讓你認認真真 |
| 00:12:39,360 | 00:12:41,360 | 做個像樣道歉的機會 |
| 00:12:41,360 | 00:12:43,360 | 那如果你要錯失這個機會 |
| 00:12:43,360 | 00:12:45,360 | 沒有關係反正 |
| 00:12:45,360 | 00:12:47,360 | 人民自己會有公斷 |
| 00:12:47,360 | 00:12:49,360 | 好來接著呢 |
| 00:12:49,360 | 00:12:51,360 | 上個禮拜專案會我有問院長 |
| 00:12:51,360 | 00:12:53,360 | 就是說上台靠 |
| 00:12:53,360 | 00:12:55,360 | 機會 |
| 00:12:55,360 | 00:12:57,360 | 下台靠智慧他的著內閣 |
| 00:12:57,360 | 00:12:59,360 | 有沒有人有下台的智慧 |
| 00:12:59,360 | 00:13:01,360 | 他說官員如果不適任他自然 |
| 00:13:01,360 | 00:13:03,360 | 會處理好那我現在問你請問 |
| 00:13:03,360 | 00:13:05,360 | 你覺得院長會處理你嗎 |
| 00:13:05,360 | 00:13:07,360 | 你覺得院長會處理你嗎 |
| 00:13:07,360 | 00:13:09,360 | 因為他說有適任跟不適任 |
| 00:13:09,360 | 00:13:11,360 | 他自然會處理你覺得他會處理你嗎 |
| 00:13:11,360 | 00:13:13,360 | 我 |
| 00:13:13,360 | 00:13:15,360 | 我自己想 |
| 00:13:15,360 | 00:13:17,360 | 你一定會問這個問題 |
| 00:13:17,360 | 00:13:19,360 | 那你一定也會知道我的答案 |
| 00:13:19,360 | 00:13:21,360 | 我不知道我真的不知道你告訴我 |
| 00:13:21,360 | 00:13:23,360 | 你的答案 |
| 00:13:23,360 | 00:13:25,360 | 就是我不知道 |
| 00:13:25,360 | 00:13:27,360 | 你不知道好 |
| 00:13:27,360 | 00:13:29,360 | 那我現在告訴你啦 |
| 00:13:29,360 | 00:13:31,360 | 我覺得呢院長關愛的眼神 |
| 00:13:31,360 | 00:13:33,360 | 我是確定 |
| 00:13:33,360 | 00:13:35,360 | 我飄向江志剛署長啦 |
| 00:13:35,360 | 00:13:37,360 | 因為有在關心他眼中 |
| 00:13:37,360 | 00:13:39,360 | 有沒有血絲啦 |
| 00:13:39,360 | 00:13:41,360 | 那你的血絲到目前為止有被署長關心 |
| 00:13:41,360 | 00:13:43,360 | 有被部長院長關心過嗎 |
| 00:13:43,360 | 00:13:45,360 | 他有慰問過你這陣子的辛勞嗎 |
| 00:13:45,360 | 00:13:47,360 | 我的眼睛 |
| 00:13:47,360 | 00:13:49,360 | 目前都維持的還好 |
| 00:13:49,360 | 00:13:51,360 | 我知道維持的還好但是 |
| 00:13:51,360 | 00:13:53,360 | 有沒有關心到辛勞辛勞一定有的吧 |
| 00:13:53,360 | 00:13:55,360 | 你不會說你處理這個毒油案處理到23天 |
| 00:13:55,360 | 00:13:57,360 | 到現在都還沒有辛勞 |
| 00:13:57,360 | 00:13:59,360 | 他有慰問你的辛勞嗎 |
| 00:13:59,360 | 00:14:01,360 | 我謝謝委員的關心 |
| 00:14:01,360 | 00:14:03,360 | 好那反正呢你覺得 |
| 00:14:03,360 | 00:14:05,360 | 院長會不會處理你 |
| 00:14:05,360 | 00:14:07,360 | 那我覺得他會不會 |
| 00:14:07,360 | 00:14:09,360 | 處理你呢這是我們全民 |
| 00:14:09,360 | 00:14:11,360 | 睜大眼睛要看的因為你20% |
| 00:14:11,360 | 00:14:13,360 | 當經費委員質詢你的到現在 |
| 00:14:13,360 | 00:14:15,360 | 還說不清楚我接著他繼續問 |
| 00:14:15,360 | 00:14:17,360 | 請問20%學者我們 |
| 00:14:17,360 | 00:14:19,360 | 孤影其名也許有暴露學者 |
| 00:14:19,360 | 00:14:21,360 | 姓名的為難度 |
| 00:14:21,360 | 00:14:23,360 | 我們也不要為難學者請問 |
| 00:14:23,360 | 00:14:25,360 | 幾個學者你們當天 |
| 00:14:25,360 | 00:14:27,360 | 找了幾個學者來把那20% |
| 00:14:27,360 | 00:14:29,360 | 我們講幾個就好了 |
| 00:14:29,360 | 00:14:31,360 | 幾個總能揭露吧 |
| 00:14:31,360 | 00:14:33,360 | 姓名不揭露幾個總能揭露吧 |
| 00:14:35,360 | 00:14:37,360 | 如果你連幾個都不敢揭露 |
| 00:14:37,360 | 00:14:39,360 | 可以下台了啦不用院長處理 |
| 00:14:39,360 | 00:14:41,360 | 都可以自動下台了來幾個 |
| 00:14:41,360 | 00:14:43,360 | 我今天就要問幾個 |
| 00:14:43,360 | 00:14:45,360 | 你講三個就三個 |
| 00:14:45,360 | 00:14:47,360 | 如果沒有這件事那你今天 |
| 00:14:47,360 | 00:14:49,360 | 就是虛構你虛構的話 |
| 00:14:49,360 | 00:14:51,360 | 你就是得下台因為你完全 |
| 00:14:51,360 | 00:14:53,360 | 經不起政治人物的道德檢驗來幾個 |
| 00:14:53,360 | 00:14:55,360 | 幾個學者孤影其名我們不講 |
| 00:14:55,360 | 00:14:57,360 | 人名幾個 |
| 00:14:57,360 | 00:14:59,360 | 我們在邀請有現場 |
| 00:14:59,360 | 00:15:01,360 | 出席的學者 |
| 00:15:01,360 | 00:15:03,360 | 以及線上出席的學者 |
| 00:15:03,360 | 00:15:05,360 | 我印象中 |
| 00:15:05,360 | 00:15:07,360 | 是第一總共有七位 |
| 00:15:07,360 | 00:15:09,360 | 有七位 |
| 00:15:09,360 | 00:15:11,360 | 總共七位 |
| 00:15:11,360 | 00:15:13,360 | 背景沒問題 |
| 00:15:13,360 | 00:15:15,360 | 背景我們孤影其名 |
| 00:15:15,360 | 00:15:17,360 | 你今天20%的遊品要留 |
| 00:15:17,360 | 00:15:19,360 | 向人民這中間要有專業 |
| 00:15:19,360 | 00:15:21,360 | 我們要評估他有沒有專業性 |
| 00:15:21,360 | 00:15:23,360 | 孤影其名七個然後 |
| 00:15:23,360 | 00:15:25,360 | 專家背景 |
| 00:15:25,360 | 00:15:27,360 | 包含了一些 |
| 00:15:27,360 | 00:15:29,360 | 遊品製程 |
| 00:15:29,360 | 00:15:31,360 | 然後食品安全風險評估 |
| 00:15:31,360 | 00:15:33,360 | 獨立等等 |
| 00:15:33,360 | 00:15:35,360 | 面向都都含在裡面 |
| 00:15:35,360 | 00:15:37,360 | 其實各方面的方案 |
| 00:15:37,360 | 00:15:39,360 | 其實你這三個是幾個人你這三個 |
| 00:15:39,360 | 00:15:41,360 | 製程獨立這個是幾個人 |
| 00:15:41,360 | 00:15:43,360 | 不會一個人嗎其他六個人 |
| 00:15:43,360 | 00:15:45,360 | 不是這個專業了吧 |
| 00:15:45,360 | 00:15:47,360 | 所以其實各個專業部分我們可以 |
| 00:15:47,360 | 00:15:49,360 | 跟委員再進一步的完整的說明 |
| 00:15:49,360 | 00:15:51,360 | 你現在就可以說明你不要私下 |
| 00:15:51,360 | 00:15:53,360 | 跟我說明這是大家關心的因為20% |
| 00:15:53,360 | 00:15:55,360 | 從7月4號吵到現在 |
| 00:15:55,360 | 00:15:57,360 | 你的七個委員請問 |
| 00:15:57,360 | 00:15:59,360 | 你說的你剛講什麼獨立製程 |
| 00:15:59,360 | 00:16:01,360 | 還有一個你這三個 |
| 00:16:01,360 | 00:16:03,360 | 是三合一嗎三合一在 |
| 00:16:03,360 | 00:16:05,360 | 一個學者身上嗎其他六個學者 |
| 00:16:05,360 | 00:16:07,360 | 是什麼背景 |
| 00:16:07,360 | 00:16:09,360 | 其他六個學者是什麼背景我想相關 |
| 00:16:09,360 | 00:16:11,360 | 於全面性的風險評估的背景 |
| 00:16:11,360 | 00:16:13,360 | 他們都擁有那你就告訴 |
| 00:16:13,360 | 00:16:15,360 | 我嗎護理嗎醫療嗎 |
| 00:16:15,360 | 00:16:17,360 | 法規嗎 |
| 00:16:17,360 | 00:16:19,360 | 生物科技嗎不能提供嗎 |
| 00:16:19,360 | 00:16:21,360 | 現在連專家學者的背景都不能提供 |
| 00:16:21,360 | 00:16:23,360 | 我們已經不想為難學者了 |
| 00:16:23,360 | 00:16:25,360 | 因為學者所給的專業建議 |
| 00:16:25,360 | 00:16:27,360 | 其實最後還是要交給衛福部的 |
| 00:16:27,360 | 00:16:29,360 | 把關我們不想為難學者我們 |
| 00:16:29,360 | 00:16:31,360 | 只是想知道幾個我們只是想知道 |
| 00:16:31,360 | 00:16:33,360 | 他們專業背景是受人民健康 |
| 00:16:33,360 | 00:16:35,360 | 的這個毒油事件我們是不是 |
| 00:16:35,360 | 00:16:37,360 | 交給專業人員來做把關 |
| 00:16:37,360 | 00:16:39,360 | 所以七個背景 |
| 00:16:39,360 | 00:16:41,360 | 是什麼第一個背景 |
| 00:16:41,360 | 00:16:43,360 | 是什麼它是什麼系的 |
| 00:16:43,360 | 00:16:45,360 | 它是什麼 |
| 00:16:45,360 | 00:16:47,360 | 它是什麼系的教授 |
| 00:16:47,360 | 00:16:49,360 | 或者是什麼專家 |
| 00:16:49,360 | 00:16:51,360 | 我做一個整體的說明 |
| 00:16:51,360 | 00:16:53,360 | 整個 |
| 00:16:53,360 | 00:16:55,360 | 食品專業背景的 |
| 00:16:55,360 | 00:16:57,360 | 有兩位 |
| 00:16:57,360 | 00:16:59,360 | 有兩位你說什麼學 |
| 00:16:59,360 | 00:17:01,360 | 獨理學 |
| 00:17:01,360 | 00:17:03,360 | 獨理學一位 |
| 00:17:03,360 | 00:17:05,360 | 食品科學的有兩位 |
| 00:17:05,360 | 00:17:07,360 | 食品科學兩位油品加工的有兩位 |
| 00:17:07,360 | 00:17:09,360 | 他們其實有很多的 |
| 00:17:09,360 | 00:17:11,360 | 內涵的部分是重疊的都有 |
| 00:17:11,360 | 00:17:13,360 | 他們專業存在 |
| 00:17:13,360 | 00:17:15,360 | 好啊那聽起來 |
| 00:17:15,360 | 00:17:17,360 | 好所以是七個嘛 |
| 00:17:17,359 | 00:17:19,359 | 所以有七個人都各自有這些背景嗎 |
| 00:17:19,359 | 00:17:21,359 | 七個人都有 |
| 00:17:21,359 | 00:17:23,359 | 這些背景嗎 |
| 00:17:23,359 | 00:17:25,359 | 七個都有這些背景嗎 |
| 00:17:25,359 | 00:17:27,359 | 就是這些相關的 |
| 00:17:27,359 | 00:17:29,360 | 七個人就是有這相關的背景嗎 |
| 00:17:29,360 | 00:17:31,360 | 好那沒有關係反正有一天名單 |
| 00:17:31,360 | 00:17:33,360 | 曝光了我們就拿今天你的回答 |
| 00:17:33,360 | 00:17:35,360 | 來檢視是不是由專業人員來 |
| 00:17:35,360 | 00:17:37,360 | 替我們把關好來 |
| 00:17:37,360 | 00:17:39,360 | 吳征說又不是我逼你吃 |
| 00:17:39,360 | 00:17:41,360 | 那我現在問部長請問你對 |
| 00:17:41,360 | 00:17:43,360 | 他這番話認同嗎 |
| 00:17:43,360 | 00:17:45,360 | 你的comment是什麼 |
| 00:17:45,360 | 00:17:47,360 | 當然我們在面對這些 |
| 00:17:47,360 | 00:17:49,360 | 事件的時候 |
| 00:17:49,360 | 00:17:51,360 | 我們都要用 |
| 00:17:51,360 | 00:17:53,360 | 同理謙卑的態度 |
| 00:17:53,360 | 00:17:55,360 | 這個在我們在處理這個事件 |
| 00:17:55,360 | 00:17:57,360 | 的過程上都是這樣 |
| 00:17:57,360 | 00:17:59,360 | 為人民的健康把關 |
| 00:17:59,360 | 00:18:01,360 | 是我們的職責 |
| 00:18:01,360 | 00:18:03,360 | 那我現在第二個問題就是 |
| 00:18:03,360 | 00:18:05,360 | 不用逼也吃得到嘛 |
| 00:18:05,360 | 00:18:07,360 | 他說又不是我逼你吃 |
| 00:18:07,360 | 00:18:09,360 | 問題是吳征你不用逼大家吃大家也吃得到 |
| 00:18:09,360 | 00:18:11,360 | 為什麼大家吃得到不是被吳征逼 |
| 00:18:11,360 | 00:18:13,360 | 才吃得到是因為這些 |
| 00:18:13,360 | 00:18:15,360 | 毒品流竄不用逼也吃得到 |
| 00:18:15,360 | 00:18:17,360 | 請問一下毒品流竄不用逼也吃得到 |
| 00:18:17,360 | 00:18:19,360 | 到底是誰的責任 |
| 00:18:19,360 | 00:18:21,360 | 誰的責任 |
| 00:18:21,360 | 00:18:23,360 | 你現在要甩鍋給業者甩鍋給地方 |
| 00:18:23,360 | 00:18:25,360 | 政府請問是誰的責任我們在 |
| 00:18:25,360 | 00:18:27,360 | 食品安全上當然 |
| 00:18:27,360 | 00:18:29,360 | 業者有他的責任 |
| 00:18:29,360 | 00:18:31,360 | 就像金輝文當初的 |
| 00:18:31,360 | 00:18:33,360 | 製造的一定業者有責任 |
| 00:18:33,360 | 00:18:35,360 | 很多已經不可考了 |
| 00:18:35,360 | 00:18:37,360 | 為什麼不可考因為都已經 |
| 00:18:37,360 | 00:18:39,360 | 留到人民的肚子了 |
| 00:18:39,360 | 00:18:41,360 | 業者一定有他的責任地方 |
| 00:18:41,360 | 00:18:43,360 | 政府的責任也可以做一些檢討 |
| 00:18:43,360 | 00:18:45,360 | 但是中央政府絕對 |
| 00:18:45,360 | 00:18:47,360 | 是責無旁貸的在甩鍋之餘 |
| 00:18:47,360 | 00:18:49,360 | 好好的回頭省思 |
| 00:18:49,360 | 00:18:51,360 | 自己的角色好三者 |
| 00:18:51,360 | 00:18:53,360 | 都是責無旁貸好來我們來 |
| 00:18:53,360 | 00:18:55,360 | 看一下毒蛇毒蛇 |
| 00:18:55,360 | 00:18:57,360 | 事件是什麼毒蛇事件因為 |
| 00:18:57,360 | 00:18:59,360 | 你講了一些話傷了同志 |
| 00:18:59,360 | 00:19:01,360 | 的心在同志的耳朵 |
| 00:19:01,360 | 00:19:03,360 | 聽起來那就是一個毒蛇 |
| 00:19:03,360 | 00:19:05,360 | 毒蛇的傷害 |
| 00:19:05,360 | 00:19:07,360 | 上個禮拜我們在這個地方做人工 |
| 00:19:07,360 | 00:19:09,360 | 生執法的一個審查 |
| 00:19:09,360 | 00:19:11,360 | 那你說同志不是 |
| 00:19:11,360 | 00:19:13,360 | 配偶同志叫做結合關係 |
| 00:19:13,360 | 00:19:15,360 | 那我告訴你同志團體 |
| 00:19:15,360 | 00:19:17,360 | 大炸鍋啦 |
| 00:19:17,360 | 00:19:19,360 | 他說什麼我們的身分證翻過來 |
| 00:19:19,360 | 00:19:21,360 | 人家還有舉證身分證翻過來 |
| 00:19:21,360 | 00:19:23,360 | 我的 |
| 00:19:23,360 | 00:19:25,360 | 跟我我的你所謂的結合 |
| 00:19:25,360 | 00:19:27,360 | 關係的伴侶他就是 |
| 00:19:27,360 | 00:19:29,360 | 配偶人家身分證 |
| 00:19:29,360 | 00:19:31,360 | 已經翻過來打臉你說我們就是 |
| 00:19:31,360 | 00:19:33,360 | 配偶你說人家不是配偶是 |
| 00:19:33,360 | 00:19:35,360 | 這個叫什麼結合關係好 |
| 00:19:35,360 | 00:19:37,360 | 先別急來我們看一下 |
| 00:19:37,360 | 00:19:39,360 | 同志聯盟他們怎麼說 |
| 00:19:39,360 | 00:19:41,360 | 時部長的發言不是一時的口誤 |
| 00:19:41,360 | 00:19:43,360 | 是衛福部長長期 |
| 00:19:43,360 | 00:19:45,360 | 以來根深蒂固 |
| 00:19:45,360 | 00:19:47,360 | 的旗艦 |
| 00:19:47,360 | 00:19:49,360 | 拒絕與時俱進的旗艦 |
| 00:19:49,360 | 00:19:51,360 | 好我先問你要不要針對 |
| 00:19:51,360 | 00:19:53,360 | 你這樣的說法跟同志道歉 |
| 00:19:53,360 | 00:19:55,360 | 再說明啦當天是 |
| 00:19:55,360 | 00:19:57,360 | 在做修訂條文上 |
| 00:19:57,360 | 00:19:59,360 | 所以我們是用法律上要 |
| 00:19:59,360 | 00:20:01,360 | 把它入法所以我當然 |
| 00:20:01,360 | 00:20:03,360 | 當時候是愉快了啦其實 |
| 00:20:03,360 | 00:20:05,360 | 最主要是在討論在入法 |
| 00:20:05,360 | 00:20:07,360 | 的時候那個法律的用語要 |
| 00:20:07,360 | 00:20:09,360 | 對應到這個 |
| 00:20:09,360 | 00:20:11,360 | 同志你的內心這個 |
| 00:20:11,360 | 00:20:13,360 | 現實上的用字才能夠 |
| 00:20:13,360 | 00:20:15,360 | 對齊啦我們原本 |
| 00:20:15,360 | 00:20:17,360 | 而且他們也要求你要道歉 |
| 00:20:17,360 | 00:20:19,360 | 你要不要做一個說明 |
| 00:20:19,360 | 00:20:21,360 | 這個人工生殖法裡面 |
| 00:20:21,360 | 00:20:23,360 | 用的是配偶但是我們這次要 |
| 00:20:23,360 | 00:20:25,360 | 你不道歉至少對同志團體做 |
| 00:20:25,360 | 00:20:27,360 | 一個說明所以我要說明 |
| 00:20:27,360 | 00:20:29,360 | 清楚說你不要幫我出名啦 |
| 00:20:29,360 | 00:20:31,360 | 你要跟同志團體啊我也沒辦法 |
| 00:20:31,360 | 00:20:33,360 | 去幫你說明你不道歉 |
| 00:20:33,360 | 00:20:35,360 | 也沒有關係但是我覺得 |
| 00:20:35,360 | 00:20:37,360 | 讓同志團體 |
| 00:20:37,360 | 00:20:39,360 | 不要覺得我們的衛福部 |
| 00:20:39,360 | 00:20:41,360 | 與其部長是一個 |
| 00:20:41,360 | 00:20:43,360 | 根深蒂固拒絕與時 |
| 00:20:43,360 | 00:20:45,360 | 拒盡的旗艦性意見 |
| 00:20:45,360 | 00:20:47,360 | 的一個衛福部 |
| 00:20:47,360 | 00:20:49,360 | 或者是部長沒有所以你不道歉 |
| 00:20:49,360 | 00:20:51,360 | 你至少要說明這是我的建議 |
| 00:20:51,360 | 00:20:53,360 | 我們不會有任何的歧視 |
| 00:20:53,360 | 00:20:55,360 | 我們絕對是尊重 |
| 00:20:55,360 | 00:20:57,360 | 多元性別這個沒有問題的 |
| 00:20:57,360 | 00:20:59,360 | 這個立場上是絕對沒有問題 |
| 00:20:59,360 | 00:21:01,360 | 反正你不道歉然後也不說明 |
| 00:21:01,360 | 00:21:03,360 | 我剛剛做了說明這個是在 |
| 00:21:03,360 | 00:21:05,360 | 立法的時候我們希望用字精準 |
| 00:21:05,360 | 00:21:07,360 | 好沒有問題那現在 |
| 00:21:07,360 | 00:21:09,360 | 你們應該是一個禮拜 |
| 00:21:09,360 | 00:21:11,360 | 可以給我們這答案嘛聽起來 |
| 00:21:11,360 | 00:21:13,360 | 就是一個禮拜因為我的訴求跟臨時 |
| 00:21:13,360 | 00:21:15,360 | 提案上面的訴求是一樣的 |
| 00:21:15,360 | 00:21:17,360 | 還有左邊 |
| 00:21:17,360 | 00:21:19,360 | 這邊的消基會就是 |
| 00:21:19,360 | 00:21:21,360 | 這裡的問題 |
| 00:21:21,360 | 00:21:23,360 | 也請你並回答一個禮拜之後回復 |
| 00:21:23,360 | 00:21:25,360 | 可以嗎消基會的 |
| 00:21:25,360 | 00:21:27,360 | 訴求對一個禮拜嘛 |
| 00:21:27,360 | 00:21:29,360 | 你有提到一個禮拜可以提供資料 |
| 00:21:29,360 | 00:21:31,360 | 好像也都有提到 |
| 00:21:31,360 | 00:21:33,360 | 再請回復好謝謝部長謝謝 |