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| Start Time | End Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00:00,000 | 00:00:06,400 | 謝謝主席 謝謝各位委員 |
| 00:00:06,400 | 00:00:08,440 | 我們請石部長 謝謝官員 |
| 00:00:08,440 | 00:00:09,480 | 有請部長 |
| 00:00:09,480 | 00:00:13,320 | 好 陳委員好 |
| 00:00:13,320 | 00:00:16,000 | 好 部長 我們來簡單的回顧一下 |
| 00:00:16,000 | 00:00:19,460 | 6月30 7月1號到現在發生什麼事情了 |
| 00:00:19,460 | 00:00:22,000 | 我們來看一下投影片 |
| 00:00:22,000 | 00:00:27,640 | 6月30號 7月1號爆發致癌油的事件 |
| 00:00:27,960 | 00:00:31,640 | 7月3號 江志剛署長說業者也是受害者 |
| 00:00:31,640 | 00:00:33,360 | 所以不公佈名單 |
| 00:00:33,360 | 00:00:37,040 | 7月5號 訂出一個全民搞不清楚 |
| 00:00:37,040 | 00:00:40,120 | 20%以上 20%以下的東西 |
| 00:00:40,120 | 00:00:43,000 | 7月6號的早上找了 |
| 00:00:43,000 | 00:00:47,320 | 上次他口中說很關心石安的沈柏央委員 |
| 00:00:47,320 | 00:00:49,200 | 私底下開會 |
| 00:00:49,200 | 00:00:53,160 | 7月6號下午 賴清德說該就責就就責 |
| 00:00:53,160 | 00:00:54,240 | 該下架就下架 |
| 00:00:54,240 | 00:00:56,800 | 他的意思就是叫你們趕快下架 |
| 00:00:56,839 | 00:01:00,959 | 好 7月14號卓榮泰跑來立法院 |
| 00:01:00,959 | 00:01:02,440 | 不但嗆委員 |
| 00:01:02,440 | 00:01:04,560 | 還說他不是來道歉的 |
| 00:01:04,560 | 00:01:06,000 | 還說講不懂 |
| 00:01:06,000 | 00:01:09,000 | 聽不講台語 大家聽不懂是不是 |
| 00:01:09,000 | 00:01:14,160 | 7月15 林靜怡說叫大家不要吃炸雞排 |
| 00:01:14,160 | 00:01:15,800 | 然後那時候他也講 |
| 00:01:15,800 | 00:01:17,560 | 這個原因可能是源頭 |
| 00:01:17,560 | 00:01:19,160 | 也可能是致癢 |
| 00:01:19,160 | 00:01:21,479 | 含含糊糊 不知道在講什麼 |
| 00:01:21,479 | 00:01:24,080 | 7月16 吳徵說 |
| 00:01:24,120 | 00:01:27,679 | 又不是民進黨逼大家吃自來油的 |
| 00:01:27,679 | 00:01:30,640 | 7月18 你們的議員說 |
| 00:01:30,640 | 00:01:32,400 | 我們如上考譬 |
| 00:01:32,400 | 00:01:34,480 | 還說人民無知 |
| 00:01:34,480 | 00:01:37,480 | 7月19 潘孟安說 |
| 00:01:37,480 | 00:01:39,800 | 推記者不要跟我炒新聞 |
| 00:01:39,800 | 00:01:43,480 | 7月20 你們的發言人戴偉山說 |
| 00:01:43,480 | 00:01:46,560 | 本田譙是天然物質 |
| 00:01:46,560 | 00:01:50,520 | 回想起10年前 12年前 |
| 00:01:50,520 | 00:01:51,880 | 你們身為執政黨 |
| 00:01:51,880 | 00:01:53,360 | 對張政府態度是什麼 |
| 00:01:53,400 | 00:01:54,520 | 標準是什麼 |
| 00:01:54,520 | 00:01:56,080 | 剛剛有委員有講 |
| 00:01:56,080 | 00:01:57,880 | 蔡奇昌陳其邁說 |
| 00:01:57,880 | 00:02:01,120 | 行政院長下台 總統出來道歉 |
| 00:02:01,120 | 00:02:03,400 | 這個是你們好久以前的標準 |
| 00:02:03,400 | 00:02:04,560 | 我現在都看不出來 |
| 00:02:04,560 | 00:02:07,400 | 你們對自己的標準在哪裡了 |
| 00:02:07,400 | 00:02:10,560 | 這麼多事情發生了 |
| 00:02:10,560 | 00:02:13,280 | 7月21 突然很高調的宣布 |
| 00:02:13,280 | 00:02:17,480 | 要成立一個調查小組 |
| 00:02:17,480 | 00:02:19,800 | 到現在都不用有人負責 |
| 00:02:19,800 | 00:02:21,440 | 不用有人下台 |
| 00:02:21,480 | 00:02:24,120 | 6月30 發生到現在 |
| 00:02:24,120 | 00:02:26,480 | 這麼多人在罵人民 |
| 00:02:26,480 | 00:02:27,800 | 罵在野黨 |
| 00:02:27,800 | 00:02:32,520 | 7月21 才說要成立調查小組 |
| 00:02:32,520 | 00:02:34,960 | 好不好笑 |
| 00:02:34,960 | 00:02:37,760 | 符不符合你們以前給自己的標準 |
| 00:02:37,760 | 00:02:41,240 | 還攻擊人民說人民無知 |
| 00:02:41,240 | 00:02:42,880 | 人民其中有很多疑問 |
| 00:02:42,880 | 00:02:44,680 | 我現在就來幫大家問 |
| 00:02:44,680 | 00:02:47,440 | 下一張 |
| 00:02:47,440 | 00:02:49,920 | 這邊我們一定要問 |
| 00:02:49,959 | 00:02:52,920 | 剛剛講了一下說不公布名單 |
| 00:02:52,920 | 00:02:55,559 | 一下說第二層不用下架 |
| 00:02:55,559 | 00:02:58,160 | 一下說20%以上20%以下 |
| 00:02:58,160 | 00:03:00,480 | 現在你們今天一定要講出 |
| 00:03:00,480 | 00:03:02,720 | 這個20%是誰決定的 |
| 00:03:02,720 | 00:03:05,560 | 因為你看江志剛以前他的標題叫做 |
| 00:03:05,560 | 00:03:06,760 | 相毒有不毒 |
| 00:03:06,760 | 00:03:08,920 | 但我一滴也不想吃 |
| 00:03:08,920 | 00:03:11,480 | 他都知道說人民一滴也不想吃 |
| 00:03:11,480 | 00:03:12,640 | 江教授知道 |
| 00:03:12,640 | 00:03:13,880 | 江醫師知道 |
| 00:03:13,880 | 00:03:15,160 | 誰病出20% |
| 00:03:15,160 | 00:03:16,560 | 現在要講清楚 |
| 00:03:16,560 | 00:03:17,959 | 講清楚給大家知道 |
| 00:03:17,959 | 00:03:19,720 | 是誰病20% |
| 00:03:19,720 | 00:03:21,960 | 是誰改掉20% |
| 00:03:21,960 | 00:03:24,920 | 我們現在就要知道 |
| 00:03:24,920 | 00:03:26,360 | 請說 |
| 00:03:26,360 | 00:03:27,480 | 跟委員說明 |
| 00:03:27,480 | 00:03:29,600 | 在民主的社會 |
| 00:03:29,600 | 00:03:32,280 | 民眾對於政府 |
| 00:03:32,280 | 00:03:35,240 | 這個人員的這個問責 |
| 00:03:35,240 | 00:03:37,560 | 我想這個是應該的 |
| 00:03:37,560 | 00:03:39,960 | 這個我們一定會虛心的受教 |
| 00:03:39,960 | 00:03:41,880 | 那不過問責的基礎是在於 |
| 00:03:41,880 | 00:03:43,880 | 有沒有行政帶動 |
| 00:03:43,880 | 00:03:46,280 | 有沒有違反法定的責任 |
| 00:03:46,280 | 00:03:48,280 | 6月30號爆發事件 |
| 00:03:48,840 | 00:03:50,840 | 我們在6月30號 |
| 00:03:50,840 | 00:03:52,840 | 接獲通報 |
| 00:03:52,840 | 00:03:54,840 | 7月1號 |
| 00:03:54,840 | 00:03:55,840 | 那麼就已經協同 |
| 00:03:55,840 | 00:03:57,840 | 台中市衛生局 |
| 00:03:57,840 | 00:03:59,840 | 直接到場裡面 |
| 00:03:59,840 | 00:04:01,840 | 去做茶場稽查 |
| 00:04:01,840 | 00:04:03,840 | 這個都是我們的職責 |
| 00:04:03,840 | 00:04:04,840 | 我跟妳說 |
| 00:04:04,840 | 00:04:05,840 | 妳不用講這些 |
| 00:04:05,840 | 00:04:07,840 | 因為大家只要看 |
| 00:04:07,840 | 00:04:09,840 | 大家只要看流程圖 |
| 00:04:09,840 | 00:04:11,840 | 就已經知道你們跟民進黨的官網 |
| 00:04:11,840 | 00:04:13,840 | 差的有多少 |
| 00:04:13,840 | 00:04:15,840 | 民進黨官網現在都還寫 |
| 00:04:15,840 | 00:04:17,840 | 三天內登陸流程圖 |
| 00:04:18,399 | 00:04:20,399 | 民進黨官網現在都還這樣寫 |
| 00:04:20,399 | 00:04:22,400 | 我這一瓶是在問你20% |
| 00:04:22,400 | 00:04:24,400 | 誰訂的 誰改的 |
| 00:04:24,400 | 00:04:26,400 | 你只要告訴我們20% |
| 00:04:26,400 | 00:04:28,400 | 誰訂的 誰改的就好了 |
| 00:04:28,400 | 00:04:30,400 | 我現在跟委員說明 |
| 00:04:30,400 | 00:04:32,400 | 所以我們在7月1號去茶場之後 |
| 00:04:32,400 | 00:04:34,400 | 那麼7月2號就公布了 |
| 00:04:34,400 | 00:04:36,400 | 要求下架的品項 |
| 00:04:36,400 | 00:04:38,400 | 在7月3號的中午 |
| 00:04:38,400 | 00:04:40,400 | 以前我們就下架了 |
| 00:04:40,400 | 00:04:42,400 | 那麼之後我們7月4號 |
| 00:04:42,400 | 00:04:44,400 | 就開了專家會議 |
| 00:04:44,400 | 00:04:46,400 | 那麼把我們在7月1號 |
| 00:04:46,960 | 00:04:48,960 | 去茶場的這些相關 |
| 00:04:48,960 | 00:04:50,960 | 那麼收集到的資料 |
| 00:04:50,960 | 00:04:52,960 | 那麼跟委員 |
| 00:04:52,960 | 00:04:54,960 | 這些專家大家討論 |
| 00:04:54,960 | 00:04:56,960 | 討論之後才會做出 |
| 00:04:56,960 | 00:04:58,960 | 中聯在當時候 |
| 00:04:58,960 | 00:05:00,960 | 是不可能馬上就要復工 |
| 00:05:00,960 | 00:05:02,960 | 因為他很多的資料 |
| 00:05:02,960 | 00:05:04,960 | 是不齊全的 |
| 00:05:04,960 | 00:05:06,960 | 你說20%誰訂 |
| 00:05:06,960 | 00:05:08,960 | 這些我們都已經知道了 |
| 00:05:08,960 | 00:05:10,960 | 同時也去討論 |
| 00:05:10,960 | 00:05:12,960 | 那麼對於我們在106年 |
| 00:05:12,960 | 00:05:14,960 | 所訂的在委員的一年 |
| 00:05:15,520 | 00:05:17,520 | 就有這個食品違規 |
| 00:05:17,520 | 00:05:19,520 | 事件的下架的階層 |
| 00:05:19,520 | 00:05:21,520 | 處理原則 |
| 00:05:21,520 | 00:05:23,520 | 當時候一共分成10大類的下架原則 |
| 00:05:23,520 | 00:05:25,520 | 這個我們也看過 |
| 00:05:25,520 | 00:05:27,520 | 我現在就是幫你圈起來 |
| 00:05:27,520 | 00:05:29,520 | 你看到我圈起來的嗎 |
| 00:05:29,520 | 00:05:31,520 | 這個106年上面 |
| 00:05:31,520 | 00:05:33,520 | 自己的說明欄 |
| 00:05:33,520 | 00:05:35,520 | 裡面有寫 |
| 00:05:35,520 | 00:05:39,520 | 作為行政處置參考 |
| 00:05:39,520 | 00:05:41,520 | 他已經寫的很清楚了 |
| 00:05:41,520 | 00:05:43,520 | 作為行政處置參考 |
| 00:05:44,080 | 00:05:46,080 | 作為行政處置的參考 |
| 00:05:46,080 | 00:05:48,080 | 既然是參考 |
| 00:05:48,080 | 00:05:50,080 | 是叫你當聖經嗎 |
| 00:05:50,080 | 00:05:52,080 | 聖旨嗎 |
| 00:05:52,080 | 00:05:54,080 | 你說到底是誰訂20%的 |
| 00:05:54,080 | 00:05:56,080 | 誰參考這個 |
| 00:05:56,080 | 00:05:58,080 | 訂20% |
| 00:05:58,080 | 00:06:00,080 | 我先把這個過程跟您說明 |
| 00:06:00,080 | 00:06:02,080 | 這個處理原則在106年的12月 |
| 00:06:02,080 | 00:06:04,080 | 就已經通通 |
| 00:06:04,080 | 00:06:06,080 | 發布給各縣市衛生局 |
| 00:06:06,080 | 00:06:08,080 | 來做 |
| 00:06:08,080 | 00:06:10,080 | 在未來發生到 |
| 00:06:10,080 | 00:06:12,080 | 發生這個 |
| 00:06:12,640 | 00:06:14,640 | 違規事件的時候 |
| 00:06:14,640 | 00:06:16,640 | 讓全國在處理下架的時候 |
| 00:06:16,640 | 00:06:18,640 | 那麼有他的一致性原則 |
| 00:06:18,640 | 00:06:20,640 | 來做依據 |
| 00:06:20,640 | 00:06:22,640 | 所以這個是在106年12月 |
| 00:06:22,640 | 00:06:24,640 | 我知道你的信項裡面 |
| 00:06:24,640 | 00:06:26,640 | 寫第一層第二層 |
| 00:06:26,640 | 00:06:28,640 | 你先告訴我是誰看了 |
| 00:06:28,640 | 00:06:30,640 | 這個處理原則 |
| 00:06:30,640 | 00:06:32,640 | 本來是給你們做行政處置參考 |
| 00:06:32,640 | 00:06:34,640 | 因為他裡面沒有提到20% |
| 00:06:34,640 | 00:06:36,640 | 是誰決定20%的 |
| 00:06:36,640 | 00:06:38,640 | 我現在就是要跟你說明 |
| 00:06:38,640 | 00:06:40,640 | 所以7月12號 |
| 00:06:41,200 | 00:06:43,200 | 才會召開這個專家會議 |
| 00:06:43,200 | 00:06:45,200 | 去討論 |
| 00:06:45,200 | 00:06:47,200 | 這一個處理原則之後 |
| 00:06:47,200 | 00:06:49,200 | 根據這一個事件 |
| 00:06:49,200 | 00:06:51,200 | 去做了一個調整 |
| 00:06:51,200 | 00:06:53,200 | 所以就會增加包含原型 |
| 00:06:53,200 | 00:06:55,200 | 油品以及使用 |
| 00:06:55,200 | 00:06:57,200 | 超過20%的 |
| 00:06:57,200 | 00:06:59,200 | 百分比的那麼建議 |
| 00:06:59,200 | 00:07:01,200 | 那麼一起下架 |
| 00:07:01,200 | 00:07:03,200 | 所以現在是講專家 |
| 00:07:03,200 | 00:07:05,200 | 你們參考了專家 |
| 00:07:05,200 | 00:07:07,200 | 好你口口聲聲 |
| 00:07:07,200 | 00:07:09,200 | 從上次來報告到現在 |
| 00:07:09,760 | 00:07:11,760 | 你們是依照這個指引 |
| 00:07:11,760 | 00:07:13,760 | 加研 |
| 00:07:13,760 | 00:07:15,760 | 為什麼不訂10% |
| 00:07:15,760 | 00:07:17,760 | 為什麼不訂15% |
| 00:07:17,760 | 00:07:19,760 | 為什麼不訂50% |
| 00:07:19,760 | 00:07:21,760 | 我們今天就是要問你誰定出20%的 |
| 00:07:21,760 | 00:07:23,760 | 就是在專家會議裡面 |
| 00:07:23,760 | 00:07:25,760 | 推給專家 |
| 00:07:25,760 | 00:07:27,760 | 專家怎麼算出來的 |
| 00:07:27,760 | 00:07:29,760 | 這個專家的會議 |
| 00:07:29,760 | 00:07:31,760 | 是不是在現場 |
| 00:07:31,760 | 00:07:33,760 | 委員所有的油品 |
| 00:07:33,760 | 00:07:35,760 | 它是有衛生安全標準的 |
| 00:07:35,760 | 00:07:37,760 | 是2PBB |
| 00:07:38,320 | 00:07:40,320 | 它使用在8.1PBB之下 |
| 00:07:40,320 | 00:07:42,320 | 20% |
| 00:07:42,320 | 00:07:44,320 | 絕對不會超過 |
| 00:07:44,320 | 00:07:46,320 | 絕對在衛生安全標準之下 |
| 00:07:46,320 | 00:07:48,320 | 所以所有的委員在科學的基準之下 |
| 00:07:48,320 | 00:07:50,320 | 討論之後 |
| 00:07:50,320 | 00:07:52,320 | 那你會不會覺得你現在口中講出這句話 |
| 00:07:52,320 | 00:07:54,320 | 對照你上面自己寫的文章 |
| 00:07:54,320 | 00:07:56,320 | 很好笑嗎 |
| 00:07:56,320 | 00:07:58,320 | 我想這個部分 |
| 00:07:58,320 | 00:08:00,320 | 我們對於民眾的 |
| 00:08:00,320 | 00:08:02,320 | 你的意思是說原頭就有問題的東西 |
| 00:08:02,320 | 00:08:04,320 | 做出來的東西 |
| 00:08:04,320 | 00:08:06,320 | 只要稀釋夠了 |
| 00:08:06,880 | 00:08:08,880 | 你們就訂出這個標準 |
| 00:08:08,880 | 00:08:10,880 | 那你這麼堅持的話你後來有什麼用改 |
| 00:08:10,880 | 00:08:12,880 | 所以是你訂的囉 |
| 00:08:12,880 | 00:08:14,880 | 容我再說一下 |
| 00:08:14,880 | 00:08:16,880 | 因為 |
| 00:08:16,880 | 00:08:18,880 | 在當時是不知道 |
| 00:08:18,880 | 00:08:20,880 | 這個油是有所謂的 |
| 00:08:20,880 | 00:08:22,880 | 延遲跟已經 |
| 00:08:22,880 | 00:08:24,880 | 業者已經知道它是 |
| 00:08:24,880 | 00:08:26,880 | 參委假冒或者是 |
| 00:08:26,880 | 00:08:28,880 | 已經延遲通報知道裡面有相關的 |
| 00:08:28,880 | 00:08:30,880 | 扁平批 |
| 00:08:30,880 | 00:08:32,880 | 事先不知道所以我們在調查當時 |
| 00:08:32,880 | 00:08:34,880 | 的時候是這樣的後來發現 |
| 00:08:35,439 | 00:08:37,439 | 他有這種行為之下我們做了後續的 |
| 00:08:37,439 | 00:08:39,439 | 全面性的預防 |
| 00:08:39,439 | 00:08:41,439 | 下架以及下架 |
| 00:08:41,439 | 00:08:43,439 | 他前面就已經違法了 |
| 00:08:43,439 | 00:08:45,439 | 前面違法是7月30日 |
| 00:08:45,439 | 00:08:47,439 | 到7月3號的時候 |
| 00:08:47,439 | 00:08:49,439 | 我聽懂了20%是用 |
| 00:08:49,439 | 00:08:51,439 | 小學生的數學算出來的 |
| 00:08:51,439 | 00:08:53,439 | 8% |
| 00:08:53,439 | 00:08:55,439 | 8TPDx20% |
| 00:08:55,439 | 00:08:57,439 | 那你10% |
| 00:08:57,439 | 00:08:59,440 | 不是更加嚴嗎 |
| 00:08:59,440 | 00:09:01,440 | 你10%不是更加嚴嗎 |
| 00:09:01,440 | 00:09:03,440 | 我想整個會 |
| 00:09:04,000 | 00:09:06,000 | 全世界對於油品的管理裡面 |
| 00:09:06,000 | 00:09:08,000 | 有這樣子的衛生安全標準 |
| 00:09:08,000 | 00:09:10,000 | 超標的第一層下架 |
| 00:09:10,000 | 00:09:12,000 | 是universal的 |
| 00:09:12,000 | 00:09:14,000 | 這樣的概念我想這邊要再次的強調 |
| 00:09:14,000 | 00:09:16,000 | 並不是食藥署 |
| 00:09:16,000 | 00:09:18,000 | 等一下你看你自己這邊寫的 |
| 00:09:18,000 | 00:09:20,000 | 絕對不允許 |
| 00:09:20,000 | 00:09:22,000 | 你說過的絕對不允許 |
| 00:09:22,000 | 00:09:24,000 | 有任何不合法的 |
| 00:09:24,000 | 00:09:26,000 | 原料掺雜 |
| 00:09:26,000 | 00:09:28,000 | 他源頭就已經不合法了 |
| 00:09:28,000 | 00:09:30,000 | 你居然說7月4號 |
| 00:09:30,000 | 00:09:32,000 | 的時候是並不知道他是 |
| 00:09:32,560 | 00:09:34,560 | 被掺雜 |
| 00:09:34,560 | 00:09:36,560 | 這個並不是外加的 |
| 00:09:36,560 | 00:09:38,560 | 從頭到尾都不能外加的 |
| 00:09:38,560 | 00:09:40,560 | 那你講一講為什麼又改了 |
| 00:09:40,560 | 00:09:42,560 | 你20%這個 |
| 00:09:42,560 | 00:09:44,560 | 規則幾乎只有存在一兩天 |
| 00:09:44,560 | 00:09:46,560 | 誰決定的還有誰改的 |
| 00:09:46,560 | 00:09:48,560 | 我們只講這個 |
| 00:09:48,560 | 00:09:50,560 | 誰決定跟誰改的 |
| 00:09:50,560 | 00:09:52,560 | 跟委員說明 |
| 00:09:52,560 | 00:09:54,560 | 當然在專家的會議討論出來是20% |
| 00:09:54,560 | 00:09:56,560 | 認為是可以在 |
| 00:09:56,560 | 00:09:58,560 | 科學上接受可接受 |
| 00:09:58,560 | 00:10:00,560 | 但是後來在執行上 |
| 00:10:01,119 | 00:10:03,119 | 我們除了科學的安全之外 |
| 00:10:03,119 | 00:10:05,119 | 也考量 |
| 00:10:05,119 | 00:10:07,119 | 行政上的執行的 |
| 00:10:07,119 | 00:10:09,119 | 複雜度 |
| 00:10:09,119 | 00:10:11,119 | 因為如果要在一一去檢視 |
| 00:10:11,119 | 00:10:13,119 | 百分比需要花更長的時間 |
| 00:10:13,119 | 00:10:15,119 | 你是沒有在那邊開會嗎 |
| 00:10:15,119 | 00:10:17,119 | 我沒有開會我專家會議 |
| 00:10:17,119 | 00:10:19,119 | 江署長有嗎 |
| 00:10:19,119 | 00:10:21,119 | 有 |
| 00:10:21,119 | 00:10:23,119 | 那你聽完都不會覺得執行上有困難 |
| 00:10:23,119 | 00:10:25,119 | 江署長聽完沒有覺得 |
| 00:10:25,119 | 00:10:27,119 | 執行上有困難 |
| 00:10:27,119 | 00:10:29,119 | 後來是我來決定說 |
| 00:10:29,680 | 00:10:31,680 | 因為要在執行上要快 |
| 00:10:31,680 | 00:10:33,680 | 不能在一一去確認幾% |
| 00:10:33,680 | 00:10:35,680 | 幾%這專家的會有他的 |
| 00:10:35,680 | 00:10:37,680 | 科學依據 |
| 00:10:37,680 | 00:10:39,680 | 但是執行上希望能夠盡快的完成 |
| 00:10:39,680 | 00:10:41,680 | 所有產品的下降 |
| 00:10:41,680 | 00:10:43,680 | 好我聽懂了 |
| 00:10:43,680 | 00:10:45,680 | 江署長決定20% |
| 00:10:45,680 | 00:10:47,680 | 你決定修改 |
| 00:10:47,680 | 00:10:49,680 | 因為他不知道實務上 |
| 00:10:49,680 | 00:10:51,680 | 執行多困難 |
| 00:10:51,680 | 00:10:53,680 | 聽起來是這個意思不是嗎 |
| 00:10:53,680 | 00:10:55,680 | 我們是要加速 |
| 00:10:55,680 | 00:10:57,680 | 盡快的時間內然後更嚴格的 |
| 00:10:58,239 | 00:11:00,239 | 這些食品的安全性 |
| 00:11:00,239 | 00:11:02,239 | 所以先做出這樣的預防 |
| 00:11:02,239 | 00:11:04,239 | 所以表示20%速度不夠快 |
| 00:11:04,239 | 00:11:06,239 | 聽起來就是20%速度不夠快 |
| 00:11:06,239 | 00:11:08,239 | 誰要為這個決策負責 |
| 00:11:08,239 | 00:11:10,239 | 誰要為這個決策負責 |
| 00:11:10,239 | 00:11:12,239 | 誰為這個決策負責 |
| 00:11:12,239 | 00:11:14,239 | 這個當然我來負責 |
| 00:11:14,239 | 00:11:16,239 | 好 |
| 00:11:16,239 | 00:11:18,239 | 那我們再看下一張 |
| 00:11:18,239 | 00:11:20,239 | 這個是你昨天講的 |
| 00:11:20,239 | 00:11:22,240 | 我們把聲音播出來 |
| 00:11:22,800 | 00:11:24,800 | 本篇題 |
| 00:11:24,800 | 00:11:26,800 | 是一級之來物 |
| 00:11:26,800 | 00:11:28,800 | 這個是科學 |
| 00:11:28,800 | 00:11:30,800 | 我們在這個科學基礎上去做的 |
| 00:11:30,800 | 00:11:32,800 | 風險影響評估所訂出的標準 |
| 00:11:32,800 | 00:11:34,800 | 這個還必須考慮到世界的公通性原則 |
| 00:11:34,800 | 00:11:36,800 | 比如說在這個標準上我國是定2 ppb |
| 00:11:36,800 | 00:11:38,800 | 但是中國是定10 ppb |
| 00:11:38,800 | 00:11:40,800 | 韓國是2 ppb跟我們一樣 |
| 00:11:40,800 | 00:11:42,800 | 日本美國是沒有訂定這個標準 |
| 00:11:42,800 | 00:11:44,800 | 歐盟是2 ppb |
| 00:11:44,800 | 00:11:46,800 | 所以當時候最早在這個食品安全的風險評估會議 |
| 00:11:46,800 | 00:11:48,800 | 有專家在討論只在低層的油品去做 |
| 00:11:48,800 | 00:11:50,800 | 下降原則而沒有涉及到相關價值制品 |
| 00:11:51,359 | 00:11:53,359 | 他也同時考量到國際的一致性標準的問題 |
| 00:11:53,359 | 00:11:55,359 | 那麼舉例而言當我們這些商品 |
| 00:11:55,359 | 00:11:57,359 | 是來自於未訂標準的國家的商品 |
| 00:11:57,359 | 00:11:59,359 | 是否可以進口 |
| 00:11:59,359 | 00:12:01,359 | 如果我們不斷地去擴大這個跟國際不同標準的原則的話 |
| 00:12:01,359 | 00:12:03,359 | 那麼同時也會有國際貿易的一致情形 |
| 00:12:03,359 | 00:12:05,359 | 所以這個是在我們做這些決策的時候 |
| 00:12:05,359 | 00:12:07,359 | 都必須同時考量 |
| 00:12:07,359 | 00:12:09,359 | 我們必須確保民眾的食品食用的安全 |
| 00:12:09,359 | 00:12:11,359 | 第一你覺得你聽得懂你在講什麼嗎 |
| 00:12:11,359 | 00:12:13,359 | 我們在告訴你國內有非法的治癌 |
| 00:12:13,359 | 00:12:15,359 | 到處活動 |
| 00:12:15,359 | 00:12:17,359 | 你在那邊講說你的標準 |
| 00:12:17,359 | 00:12:19,359 | 是因為怕外國的東西 |
| 00:12:19,920 | 00:12:21,920 | 沒有辦法輸入 |
| 00:12:21,920 | 00:12:23,920 | 這個誤解了 |
| 00:12:23,920 | 00:12:25,920 | 我要跟大家說明的 |
| 00:12:25,920 | 00:12:27,920 | 自癌物的規範 |
| 00:12:27,920 | 00:12:29,920 | 第幾級的自癌物 |
| 00:12:29,920 | 00:12:31,920 | 這個是由世界 |
| 00:12:31,920 | 00:12:33,920 | IARRC所訂出來的 |
| 00:12:33,920 | 00:12:35,920 | 對 |
| 00:12:35,920 | 00:12:37,920 | 幾級的自癌物是來自於在 |
| 00:12:37,920 | 00:12:39,920 | 動物實驗上 |
| 00:12:39,920 | 00:12:41,920 | 他的證據強度 |
| 00:12:41,920 | 00:12:43,920 | 不等於他的毒性容許量 |
| 00:12:43,920 | 00:12:45,920 | 是多少 |
| 00:12:45,920 | 00:12:47,920 | 所以他雖然被定為一級自癌物 |
| 00:12:48,479 | 00:12:50,479 | 同屬一級自癌物的包含9 |
| 00:12:50,479 | 00:12:52,479 | 所以如何去定出 |
| 00:12:52,479 | 00:12:54,479 | 後面他的 |
| 00:12:54,479 | 00:12:56,479 | 毒性或者是對自癌的 |
| 00:12:56,479 | 00:12:58,479 | 強度有多少 |
| 00:12:58,479 | 00:13:00,479 | 那個是要在另外一個風險 |
| 00:13:00,479 | 00:13:02,479 | 所以在定這個標準的時候 |
| 00:13:02,479 | 00:13:04,479 | 我在講的是說 |
| 00:13:04,479 | 00:13:06,479 | 我們過去 |
| 00:13:06,479 | 00:13:08,479 | 食藥署所訂出來第一層 |
| 00:13:08,479 | 00:13:10,479 | 下架這個是跟歐盟是切齊的 |
| 00:13:10,479 | 00:13:12,480 | 歐盟就是 |
| 00:13:12,480 | 00:13:14,480 | 2ppb的油品標準 |
| 00:13:14,480 | 00:13:16,480 | 下架原則就是第一層 |
| 00:13:17,040 | 00:13:19,040 | 所以當年所訂的是跟歐盟切齊 |
| 00:13:19,040 | 00:13:21,040 | 並沒有 |
| 00:13:21,040 | 00:13:23,040 | 並不是說去放寬 |
| 00:13:23,040 | 00:13:25,040 | 後來我們是在 |
| 00:13:25,040 | 00:13:27,040 | 這個事件之後去加嚴 |
| 00:13:27,040 | 00:13:29,040 | 所以不是放寬 |
| 00:13:29,040 | 00:13:31,040 | 首先你剛剛在台上已經講的很清楚了 |
| 00:13:31,040 | 00:13:33,040 | 你說我是衛福部部長 |
| 00:13:33,040 | 00:13:35,040 | 我就是守護全民的健康 |
| 00:13:35,040 | 00:13:37,040 | 沒錯 |
| 00:13:37,040 | 00:13:39,040 | 你這個是經濟部長在講的 |
| 00:13:39,040 | 00:13:41,040 | 不是我只是在說明 |
| 00:13:41,040 | 00:13:43,040 | 當年訂第一層下架 |
| 00:13:43,040 | 00:13:45,040 | 他是按照跟歐盟一樣的標準 |
| 00:13:45,599 | 00:13:47,599 | 那我們就來講這個 |
| 00:13:47,599 | 00:13:49,599 | 我們這次這個事件其實是加嚴的 |
| 00:13:49,599 | 00:13:51,599 | 你那麼在意這國是怎麼樣 |
| 00:13:51,599 | 00:13:53,599 | 那一國是怎麼樣 |
| 00:13:53,599 | 00:13:55,599 | 我們發現你昨天早上 |
| 00:13:55,599 | 00:13:57,599 | 到下午 |
| 00:13:57,599 | 00:13:59,599 | 緊急的更換你的說法 |
| 00:13:59,599 | 00:14:01,599 | 你說有一批油 |
| 00:14:01,599 | 00:14:03,599 | 本來是去日本 |
| 00:14:03,599 | 00:14:05,599 | 好像口誤了 |
| 00:14:05,599 | 00:14:07,599 | 最後你才說查出來是去韓國 |
| 00:14:07,599 | 00:14:09,599 | 你什麼時候通知韓國的 |
| 00:14:09,599 | 00:14:11,599 | 昨天 |
| 00:14:11,599 | 00:14:13,599 | 這個我抱歉啦 |
| 00:14:14,160 | 00:14:16,160 | 所以去講成是日本 |
| 00:14:16,160 | 00:14:18,160 | 其實是韓國 |
| 00:14:18,160 | 00:14:20,160 | 那麼在這個之前就已經 |
| 00:14:20,160 | 00:14:22,160 | 廠商他就已經通知他的下游了 |
| 00:14:22,160 | 00:14:24,160 | 廠商什麼時候通知韓國 |
| 00:14:24,160 | 00:14:26,160 | 日期查一下 |
| 00:14:26,160 | 00:14:28,160 | 你日月30號 |
| 00:14:28,160 | 00:14:30,160 | 我看到你的新聞稿 |
| 00:14:30,160 | 00:14:32,160 | 是7月6號就知道 |
| 00:14:32,160 | 00:14:34,160 | 30個批號囉 |
| 00:14:34,160 | 00:14:36,160 | 你7月6號的新聞稿說 |
| 00:14:36,160 | 00:14:38,160 | 我們知道有30個批號 |
| 00:14:38,160 | 00:14:40,160 | 如果你7月6號 |
| 00:14:40,160 | 00:14:42,160 | 沒有通知韓國 |
| 00:14:42,719 | 00:14:44,719 | 那你就太對不起你剛剛那段影片了 |
| 00:14:44,719 | 00:14:46,719 | 因為你剛剛說美國是多少 |
| 00:14:46,719 | 00:14:48,719 | 日本是多少 |
| 00:14:48,719 | 00:14:50,719 | 這個其他國家是多少 |
| 00:14:50,719 | 00:14:52,719 | 我現在跟你說韓國是 |
| 00:14:52,719 | 00:14:54,719 | 2ppm |
| 00:14:54,719 | 00:14:56,719 | 嬰幼兒是1ppm |
| 00:14:56,719 | 00:14:58,719 | 如果你原池通知韓國 |
| 00:14:58,719 | 00:15:00,719 | 韓國已經有嬰幼兒 |
| 00:15:00,719 | 00:15:02,719 | 現在已經實用了這個油 |
| 00:15:02,719 | 00:15:04,719 | 這跟你剛剛的影片對得起來嗎 |
| 00:15:04,719 | 00:15:06,720 | 你剛剛的影片是說 |
| 00:15:06,720 | 00:15:08,720 | 我訂的是對齊歐盟 |
| 00:15:08,720 | 00:15:10,720 | 可是你輸出去韓國 |
| 00:15:11,280 | 00:15:13,280 | 韓國的標準就是2ppm |
| 00:15:13,280 | 00:15:15,280 | 1ppm |
| 00:15:15,280 | 00:15:17,280 | 我現在只想知道你7月6號就知道 |
| 00:15:17,280 | 00:15:19,280 | 有30個批號 |
| 00:15:19,280 | 00:15:21,280 | 你什麼時候通知韓國的 |
| 00:15:21,280 | 00:15:23,280 | 跟委員說明 |
| 00:15:23,280 | 00:15:25,280 | 這一批是沒有檢體 |
| 00:15:25,280 | 00:15:27,280 | 不是他超標 |
| 00:15:27,280 | 00:15:29,280 | 所以不用通知 |
| 00:15:29,280 | 00:15:31,280 | 你怎麼要通知人家 |
| 00:15:31,280 | 00:15:33,280 | 讓人家驗驗看吧 |
| 00:15:33,280 | 00:15:35,280 | 不是,所以他通知的是 |
| 00:15:35,280 | 00:15:37,280 | 那個業者他要去驗 |
| 00:15:37,280 | 00:15:39,280 | 一樣他是自主檢驗的概念 |
| 00:15:39,839 | 00:15:41,839 | 在韓國也是如此 |
| 00:15:41,839 | 00:15:43,839 | 所以他自然拿到這個油品 |
| 00:15:43,839 | 00:15:45,839 | 他要去檢驗的 |
| 00:15:45,839 | 00:15:47,839 | 所以他通知的是他的對口 |
| 00:15:47,839 | 00:15:49,839 | 他進口商那邊 |
| 00:15:49,839 | 00:15:51,839 | 並不是說我們發現 |
| 00:15:51,839 | 00:15:53,839 | 有一批我們檢驗出 |
| 00:15:53,839 | 00:15:55,839 | 不合格的商品去通知 |
| 00:15:55,839 | 00:15:57,839 | 那個是不一樣 |
| 00:15:57,839 | 00:15:59,839 | 那你的意思是說 |
| 00:15:59,839 | 00:16:01,839 | 都是業者通知 |
| 00:16:01,839 | 00:16:03,839 | 那你昨天幹嘛通知 |
| 00:16:03,839 | 00:16:05,839 | 你昨天有通知啊 |
| 00:16:05,839 | 00:16:07,839 | 你說你的新聞稿寫 |
| 00:16:08,400 | 00:16:12,400 | 我們沒有辦法拿到這個檢體 |
| 00:16:12,400 | 00:16:14,400 | 所以請他們參考 |
| 00:16:14,400 | 00:16:16,400 | 只是這樣而已 |
| 00:16:16,400 | 00:16:18,400 | 參考說我們沒有拿到這個 |
| 00:16:18,400 | 00:16:20,400 | 你幾號通知?6號 |
| 00:16:20,400 | 00:16:22,400 | 你通知韓國還是叫下面的業者自己通知 |
| 00:16:22,400 | 00:16:24,400 | 業者是先有通知 |
| 00:16:24,400 | 00:16:26,400 | 那個時間我們再確認一下 |
| 00:16:26,400 | 00:16:28,400 | 你剛叫他拿文件上來查 |
| 00:16:28,400 | 00:16:30,400 | 你到現在還沒告訴我幾號通知的 |
| 00:16:30,400 | 00:16:32,400 | 剛不是有一個 |
| 00:16:32,400 | 00:16:34,400 | 剛有一位官員拿著文件 |
| 00:16:34,400 | 00:16:36,400 | 要告訴我幾號通知韓國的 |
| 00:16:38,400 | 00:16:40,400 | 主席 |
| 00:16:40,400 | 00:16:42,400 | 那就查一下 |
| 00:16:42,400 | 00:16:44,400 | 時間暫停 |
| 00:16:44,400 | 00:16:46,400 | 他剛本來走到這邊了 |
| 00:16:46,400 | 00:16:48,400 | 好時間暫停 |
| 00:16:52,400 | 00:16:54,400 | 我幫韓國人問啊 |
| 00:16:54,400 | 00:16:56,400 | 他們也很關心自己的小孩啊 |
| 00:16:56,400 | 00:16:58,400 | 你們七月二號就知道有一批 |
| 00:16:58,400 | 00:17:00,400 | 去韓國韓國標準還比我們更嚴 |
| 00:17:00,400 | 00:17:02,400 | 你還說你要加嚴 |
| 00:17:02,400 | 00:17:04,400 | 人家比我們還更嚴 |
| 00:17:04,400 | 00:17:06,400 | 然後你沒通知他們 |
| 00:17:06,960 | 00:17:08,960 | 你剛在那邊講說我們要接軌歐盟 |
| 00:17:08,960 | 00:17:10,960 | 接軌美國 |
| 00:17:12,960 | 00:17:14,960 | 查不出來耶 |
| 00:17:14,960 | 00:17:16,960 | 主席 |
| 00:17:16,960 | 00:17:18,960 | 今天委員會結束以前 |
| 00:17:18,960 | 00:17:20,960 | 我要三個數據 |
| 00:17:20,960 | 00:17:22,960 | 什麼時候通知韓國 |
| 00:17:22,960 | 00:17:24,960 | 誰通知的 |
| 00:17:24,960 | 00:17:26,960 | 就算你們不知道裡面有沒有 |
| 00:17:26,960 | 00:17:28,960 | 你們也要跟人家講吧 |
| 00:17:30,960 | 00:17:32,960 | 好可以時間繼續 |
| 00:17:33,520 | 00:17:35,520 | 這邊 |
| 00:17:35,520 | 00:17:37,520 | 你上禮拜也是沒有回答我 |
| 00:17:39,520 | 00:17:41,520 | 上禮拜在這邊我問你說你預期你 |
| 00:17:41,520 | 00:17:43,520 | 回收多少 |
| 00:17:43,520 | 00:17:45,520 | 我們現在就回收大概30% |
| 00:17:45,520 | 00:17:47,520 | 你希望達到多少 |
| 00:17:47,520 | 00:17:49,520 | 你確認多少回收不回來 |
| 00:17:49,520 | 00:17:51,520 | 你不講話你沒講 |
| 00:17:51,520 | 00:17:53,520 | 然後呢另外一個 |
| 00:17:53,520 | 00:17:55,520 | 國防外交委員會的委員問出來了 |
| 00:17:55,520 | 00:17:57,520 | 他說國軍已經吃掉50幾桶 |
| 00:17:57,520 | 00:17:59,520 | 你不用知道 |
| 00:17:59,520 | 00:18:01,520 | 你不用知道你 |
| 00:18:02,080 | 00:18:04,080 | 應該要做到多少有哪一些你應該 |
| 00:18:04,080 | 00:18:06,080 | 誠實的跟人民交代 |
| 00:18:06,080 | 00:18:08,080 | 回收不回來了嗎 |
| 00:18:08,080 | 00:18:10,080 | 你這樣不是跟環境部一樣嗎 |
| 00:18:10,080 | 00:18:12,080 | 環境部說光電板風災完 |
| 00:18:12,080 | 00:18:14,080 | 片片有序號全部回收回來 |
| 00:18:14,080 | 00:18:16,080 | 最後環境部跟經濟部 |
| 00:18:16,080 | 00:18:18,080 | 一起出來說片片收不回來 |
| 00:18:18,080 | 00:18:20,080 | 然後現在獨有也是啊 |
| 00:18:20,080 | 00:18:22,080 | 你統統找不回來 |
| 00:18:22,080 | 00:18:24,080 | 你不誠實面對大家 |
| 00:18:24,080 | 00:18:26,080 | 你們連一個 |
| 00:18:26,080 | 00:18:28,080 | 儀表板都沒有 |
| 00:18:28,080 | 00:18:30,080 | 你連外府部官網一個儀表板都沒有 |
| 00:18:30,639 | 00:18:32,639 | 我今天回收多少了 |
| 00:18:32,639 | 00:18:34,639 | 然後告訴大家說多少真的被吃掉了 |
| 00:18:34,639 | 00:18:36,639 | 還有其他委員會 |
| 00:18:36,639 | 00:18:38,639 | 一個一個委員去問 |
| 00:18:38,639 | 00:18:40,639 | 跟委員說明 |
| 00:18:40,639 | 00:18:42,639 | 這個事件啊 |
| 00:18:42,639 | 00:18:44,639 | 是因為廠商延遲通報 |
| 00:18:44,639 | 00:18:46,639 | 那麼久所以造成 |
| 00:18:46,639 | 00:18:48,639 | 我們要追回的時效 |
| 00:18:48,639 | 00:18:50,639 | 嚴重的延遲 |
| 00:18:50,639 | 00:18:52,639 | 這個是廠商這不良的 |
| 00:18:52,639 | 00:18:54,639 | 廠商隱匿通報 |
| 00:18:54,639 | 00:18:56,639 | 那我們沒有辦法即時去回收 |
| 00:18:56,639 | 00:18:58,639 | 所以我們所回收 |
| 00:18:59,200 | 00:19:01,200 | 都已經公佈多少的量 |
| 00:19:01,200 | 00:19:03,200 | 我們都公佈 |
| 00:19:03,200 | 00:19:05,200 | 你覺得有一點悲觀 |
| 00:19:05,200 | 00:19:07,200 | 都是因為廠商 |
| 00:19:07,200 | 00:19:09,200 | 所以現在7成回收 |
| 00:19:09,200 | 00:19:11,200 | 不回來了 |
| 00:19:11,200 | 00:19:13,200 | 事實就是如此啊 |
| 00:19:13,200 | 00:19:15,200 | 你跟全國人民說嘛 |
| 00:19:15,200 | 00:19:17,200 | 你跟全國人民說 |
| 00:19:17,200 | 00:19:19,200 | 你就說我是守護食安的 |
| 00:19:19,200 | 00:19:21,200 | 衛福部部長 |
| 00:19:21,200 | 00:19:23,200 | 但是我必須很遺憾的告訴大家說 |
| 00:19:23,200 | 00:19:25,200 | 7成回收不回來我現在極限就是回收3成 |
| 00:19:25,200 | 00:19:27,200 | 是這個意思嗎 |
| 00:19:27,760 | 00:19:29,760 | 現在的事實就是延遲通報 |
| 00:19:29,760 | 00:19:31,760 | 讓主管機關無法 |
| 00:19:31,760 | 00:19:33,760 | 即時的介入去回收 |
| 00:19:33,760 | 00:19:35,760 | 你一直說他延遲通報 |
| 00:19:35,760 | 00:19:37,760 | 然後你7月21成立調查小組 |
| 00:19:37,760 | 00:19:39,760 | 你有多 |
| 00:19:39,760 | 00:19:41,760 | 你多在乎 |
| 00:19:41,760 | 00:19:43,760 | 7月21進廠去做 |
| 00:19:43,760 | 00:19:45,760 | 最後的確認 |
| 00:19:45,760 | 00:19:47,760 | 我們的所有的資料的比對 |
| 00:19:47,760 | 00:19:49,760 | 然後對於我們這一份報告 |
| 00:19:49,760 | 00:19:51,760 | 做最後的確認 |
| 00:19:51,760 | 00:19:53,760 | 因為我們要完成這份 |
| 00:19:53,760 | 00:19:55,760 | 這個禮拜就會完成這個調查報告 |
| 00:19:56,320 | 00:19:58,320 | 那你很簡單的告訴大家 |
| 00:19:58,320 | 00:20:00,320 | 你覺得有幾%你已經放棄了 |
| 00:20:00,320 | 00:20:02,320 | 追不回來了 |
| 00:20:02,320 | 00:20:04,320 | 目前能夠回收到的 |
| 00:20:04,320 | 00:20:06,320 | 就是這個數量 |
| 00:20:06,320 | 00:20:08,320 | 極限了啦 |
| 00:20:08,320 | 00:20:10,320 | 就是我們公布的這個數量 |
| 00:20:10,320 | 00:20:12,320 | 好在這邊你剛說的很清楚喔 |
| 00:20:12,320 | 00:20:14,320 | 7月21號你只是進廠去確認 |
| 00:20:14,320 | 00:20:16,320 | 所有的事情 |
| 00:20:16,320 | 00:20:18,320 | 我跟你說你們有幾種說法了 |
| 00:20:18,320 | 00:20:20,320 | 你們有人說黃豆有問題 |
| 00:20:20,320 | 00:20:22,320 | 有人說黃豆跟制程有問題 |
| 00:20:22,320 | 00:20:24,320 | 書巧會說制程有問題 |
| 00:20:24,879 | 00:20:26,879 | 林季怡說原料制程有問題 |
| 00:20:26,879 | 00:20:28,879 | 石崇良說 |
| 00:20:28,879 | 00:20:30,879 | 檢體被掉包了 |
| 00:20:30,879 | 00:20:32,879 | 那你現在到底可以全國人民只關心 |
| 00:20:32,879 | 00:20:34,879 | 這件事怎麼發生的 |
| 00:20:34,879 | 00:20:36,879 | 你釐清了嗎 |
| 00:20:36,879 | 00:20:38,879 | 所有的事件都是一連串 |
| 00:20:38,879 | 00:20:40,879 | 都有關聯性 |
| 00:20:40,879 | 00:20:42,879 | 不能說就是一個原因 |
| 00:20:42,879 | 00:20:44,879 | 如果事情這麼單純就好解決 |
| 00:20:44,879 | 00:20:46,879 | 當然它有它的複雜度 |
| 00:20:46,879 | 00:20:48,879 | 再加上它的檢體 |
| 00:20:48,879 | 00:20:50,879 | 不確實 |
| 00:20:50,879 | 00:20:52,879 | 我們一開始檢驗的它的殘留檢體 |
| 00:20:53,440 | 00:20:55,440 | 全部都是合格的 |
| 00:20:55,440 | 00:20:57,440 | 這個完全跟事實 |
| 00:20:57,440 | 00:20:59,440 | 最後的事實完全是 |
| 00:20:59,440 | 00:21:01,440 | 被離的 |
| 00:21:01,440 | 00:21:03,440 | 所以才會增加我們在 |
| 00:21:03,440 | 00:21:05,440 | 確認這個調查事件當的難度 |
| 00:21:05,440 | 00:21:07,440 | 所以我們才會花了很多的時間 |
| 00:21:07,440 | 00:21:09,440 | 你昨天的新聞稿是 |
| 00:21:09,440 | 00:21:11,440 | 你昨天的新聞稿寫說 |
| 00:21:11,440 | 00:21:13,440 | 孔就是你懷疑 |
| 00:21:13,440 | 00:21:15,440 | 是因為黃豆的這個 |
| 00:21:15,440 | 00:21:17,440 | 烹煮的過程 |
| 00:21:17,440 | 00:21:19,440 | 我們姑且不論 |
| 00:21:19,440 | 00:21:21,440 | 6月30號到7月28號 |
| 00:21:22,000 | 00:21:24,000 | 你現在有辦法告訴我們7月28號 |
| 00:21:24,000 | 00:21:26,000 | 你終於可以知道結果了 |
| 00:21:26,000 | 00:21:28,000 | 因為你們說21號進場 |
| 00:21:28,000 | 00:21:30,000 | 28號就有完整的調查報告 |
| 00:21:30,000 | 00:21:32,000 | 就可以確認這個調查報告 |
| 00:21:32,000 | 00:21:34,000 | 就是我們看到很多的 |
| 00:21:34,000 | 00:21:36,000 | 這個不合標準的地方 |
| 00:21:36,000 | 00:21:38,000 | 但是最後要 |
| 00:21:38,000 | 00:21:40,000 | 由專家來確認 |
| 00:21:40,000 | 00:21:42,000 | 它的因果關聯性 |
| 00:21:42,000 | 00:21:44,000 | 所以你28號終於會告訴大家為什麼了 |
| 00:21:44,000 | 00:21:46,000 | 28號會告訴大家為什麼 |
| 00:21:46,000 | 00:21:48,000 | 昨天已經進場 |
| 00:21:48,000 | 00:21:50,000 | 去做確認 |
| 00:21:50,560 | 00:21:52,560 | 這個專家小組正在撰寫 |
| 00:21:52,560 | 00:21:54,560 | 這一份最後的調查報告 |
| 00:21:54,560 | 00:21:56,560 | 28號以前會看到 |
| 00:21:56,560 | 00:21:58,560 | 比起以前 |
| 00:21:58,560 | 00:22:00,560 | 蔡其昌啦 |
| 00:22:00,560 | 00:22:02,560 | 陳其邁啦民進黨官網 |
| 00:22:02,560 | 00:22:04,560 | 以前叫行政院長下台的這些人 |
| 00:22:06,560 | 00:22:08,560 | 你現在我們仔細精算 |
| 00:22:08,560 | 00:22:10,560 | 6月30號到7月28號以前 |
| 00:22:10,560 | 00:22:11,360 | 30天 |
| 00:22:11,360 | 00:22:13,360 | 你們對自己的容許值 |
| 00:22:13,360 | 00:22:15,360 | 我們剛剛一直在講容許值 |
| 00:22:15,360 | 00:22:17,360 | 你們對自己的容許值也放寬10倍了 |
| 00:22:17,360 | 00:22:19,360 | 最在意 |
| 00:22:19,919 | 00:22:21,919 | 行政院長要不要下台的 |
| 00:22:21,919 | 00:22:23,919 | 現在在機場擺拍 |
| 00:22:23,919 | 00:22:25,919 | 上禮拜你說你好關心 |
| 00:22:25,919 | 00:22:27,919 | 石安的一個委員你去跟他單獨開會 |
| 00:22:27,919 | 00:22:29,919 | 他關心嗎 |
| 00:22:29,919 | 00:22:31,919 | 他上禮拜質詢 |
| 00:22:31,919 | 00:22:33,919 | 有來這裡嗎他今天有來這裡嗎 |
| 00:22:33,919 | 00:22:35,919 | 你需要去跟他報告 |
| 00:22:35,919 | 00:22:37,919 | 什麼嗎你需要跟他開 |
| 00:22:37,919 | 00:22:39,919 | 什麼會嗎你有跟他學到什麼嗎 |
| 00:22:39,919 | 00:22:41,919 | 他兩年來林安 |
| 00:22:41,919 | 00:22:43,919 | 石安林質詢 |
| 00:22:43,919 | 00:22:45,919 | 林質詢江志剛 |
| 00:22:45,919 | 00:22:47,919 | 署長他7月6號 |
| 00:22:48,480 | 00:22:50,480 | 早上去跟沈柏楊開會 |
| 00:22:50,480 | 00:22:52,480 | 因為他說沈柏楊很在乎石安 |
| 00:22:54,480 | 00:22:56,480 | 他這個臉在乎嗎 |
| 00:22:56,480 | 00:22:58,480 | 我想所有的 |
| 00:22:58,480 | 00:23:00,480 | 委員的這個 |
| 00:23:00,480 | 00:23:02,480 | 質詢我們都會配合 |
| 00:23:02,480 | 00:23:04,480 | 因為他上禮拜說因為他特別在意 |
| 00:23:04,480 | 00:23:06,480 | 石安所以他去跟他開會 |
| 00:23:06,480 | 00:23:08,480 | 可是他也沒來質詢 |
| 00:23:08,480 | 00:23:10,480 | 上次也沒來質詢今天也沒來質詢 |
| 00:23:10,480 | 00:23:12,480 | 你的標準真的好怪 |
| 00:23:12,480 | 00:23:14,480 | 所有的委員的官員 |
| 00:23:14,480 | 00:23:16,480 | 我們都盡量的配合 |
| 00:23:17,040 | 00:23:19,040 | 好最後啦最後我們來看 |
| 00:23:19,040 | 00:23:21,040 | 你們昨天自己覺得 |
| 00:23:21,040 | 00:23:23,040 | 應該是中聯在去年 |
| 00:23:23,040 | 00:23:25,040 | 調整了黃豆 |
| 00:23:25,040 | 00:23:27,040 | 熱損率放寬了10倍 |
| 00:23:27,040 | 00:23:29,040 | 放寬10倍 |
| 00:23:29,040 | 00:23:31,040 | 這個熱損率是 |
| 00:23:31,040 | 00:23:33,040 | 不好意思我已經把你2014到2016 |
| 00:23:33,040 | 00:23:35,040 | 你寫好多文章看完了 |
| 00:23:35,040 | 00:23:37,040 | 我今天也不用問你誰寫的因為我已經知道了 |
| 00:23:37,040 | 00:23:39,040 | 你很在意的HACCP |
| 00:23:39,040 | 00:23:41,040 | 你當時也大力的 |
| 00:23:41,040 | 00:23:43,040 | 檢討你覺得HACCP |
| 00:23:43,040 | 00:23:45,040 | 這個系統是一套 |
| 00:23:45,040 | 00:23:47,040 | 世界上公認對石安 |
| 00:23:47,040 | 00:23:49,040 | 最具成效最具有預防性的 |
| 00:23:49,040 | 00:23:51,040 | 自主性管理系統 |
| 00:23:51,040 | 00:23:53,040 | 從聯託到產品之內的每一個 |
| 00:23:53,040 | 00:23:55,040 | 步驟事前的分析可能 |
| 00:23:55,040 | 00:23:57,040 | 產生的危害 |
| 00:23:57,040 | 00:23:59,040 | 我們要問你你的HACCP |
| 00:23:59,040 | 00:24:01,040 | 系統去年有看到 |
| 00:24:01,040 | 00:24:03,040 | 他們這個節點嗎他們改變了 |
| 00:24:03,040 | 00:24:05,040 | 他們的熱損傷率你看到嗎 |
| 00:24:07,040 | 00:24:09,040 | 這個我想在 |
| 00:24:09,040 | 00:24:11,040 | 茶廠的部分喔是主要 |
| 00:24:11,040 | 00:24:13,040 | 是由地方去執行我在講 |
| 00:24:13,040 | 00:24:15,040 | 在地方在執行的時候 |
| 00:24:15,040 | 00:24:17,040 | 那麼去看這些文件 |
| 00:24:17,040 | 00:24:19,040 | 是他在茶廠的當中 |
| 00:24:19,040 | 00:24:21,040 | 那麼可能是其中的一部分 |
| 00:24:21,040 | 00:24:23,040 | 部長我們一起來閱讀閱讀他 |
| 00:24:23,040 | 00:24:25,040 | 我心裡寫的節奏 |
| 00:24:25,040 | 00:24:27,040 | HACCP |
| 00:24:27,040 | 00:24:29,040 | 並非零缺點他2014年 |
| 00:24:29,040 | 00:24:31,040 | 就知道了他2014年 |
| 00:24:31,040 | 00:24:33,040 | 就知道了以石油油為例 |
| 00:24:33,040 | 00:24:35,040 | 政府必須建立安全的架構 |
| 00:24:35,040 | 00:24:37,040 | 全新的基準把 |
| 00:24:37,040 | 00:24:39,040 | 油品盡最大的能力去做 |
| 00:24:39,040 | 00:24:41,040 | 比對建立食品科學 |
| 00:24:41,040 | 00:24:43,040 | 認證機制讓所有 |
| 00:24:43,040 | 00:24:45,040 | 的下游廠商甚至是消費者 |
| 00:24:45,040 | 00:24:47,040 | 利用HACCP不同節點 |
| 00:24:47,040 | 00:24:49,040 | 的概念才能把油品對 |
| 00:24:49,040 | 00:24:51,040 | 身體的危害降到最低保障 |
| 00:24:51,040 | 00:24:53,040 | 全民的健康他2014年 |
| 00:24:53,040 | 00:24:55,040 | 寫的這麼好他上個兩年 |
| 00:24:55,040 | 00:24:57,040 | 多什麼都沒做現在問你一個 |
| 00:24:57,040 | 00:24:59,040 | 節點你們有抓到嗎你們答 |
| 00:24:59,040 | 00:25:01,040 | 不出來耶 |
| 00:25:01,040 | 00:25:03,040 | 從我們現在這一次的調查確實 |
| 00:25:03,040 | 00:25:05,040 | 也發現他幾個節點上 |
| 00:25:05,040 | 00:25:07,040 | 沒有符合標準 |
| 00:25:07,040 | 00:25:09,040 | 這是我昨天有特別提到 |
| 00:25:09,040 | 00:25:11,040 | 就是在這個 |
| 00:25:11,040 | 00:25:13,040 | 去年試緊你們了嗎 |
| 00:25:13,040 | 00:25:15,040 | 既然節點你們有發現有問題 |
| 00:25:15,040 | 00:25:17,040 | 你不就應該中央 |
| 00:25:17,040 | 00:25:19,040 | 系統就知道了嗎 |
| 00:25:19,040 | 00:25:21,040 | 那個查場我剛剛提到這是地方 |
| 00:25:21,040 | 00:25:23,040 | 政府啊HACCP是你們 |
| 00:25:23,040 | 00:25:25,040 | 的系統HACCP是定一個流程 |
| 00:25:25,040 | 00:25:27,040 | 但是實際上的查 |
| 00:25:27,040 | 00:25:29,040 | 他有沒有按照HACCP |
| 00:25:29,040 | 00:25:31,040 | 執行這個是地方 |
| 00:25:31,040 | 00:25:33,040 | 查場但是他之前就知道 |
| 00:25:33,040 | 00:25:35,040 | 有缺點他署長 |
| 00:25:35,040 | 00:25:37,040 | 在當教授就知道有缺點他 |
| 00:25:37,040 | 00:25:39,040 | 覺得HACCP要改進 |
| 00:25:39,040 | 00:25:43,040 | 他如果把他2014到2026想做的事 |
| 00:25:43,040 | 00:25:45,040 | 都在上任後做完 |
| 00:25:45,040 | 00:25:47,040 | 我們現在還會落到這種地步嗎 |
| 00:25:47,040 | 00:25:49,040 | 好今天就問到這樣謝謝 |