| IVOD_ID |
17064 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17064 |
| 日期 |
2025-11-24 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-15-12 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期內政委員會第12次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
12 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
15 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
內政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期內政委員會第12次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-11-24T08:35:01+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-11-24T11:27:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
02:51:59 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/eeffa975d6a1e3eafc2a62a6cd662d9e22ccee7bee9a5a1385db5c09cad80ab762cc4351b305e31d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-11-24T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：邀請內政部部長、國防部部長就「普發新版臺灣全民安全指引如何提升全民安全意識之政策效益評估」進行專題報告，並備質詢，另請行政院主計總處派員列席備詢。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:35:01 - 11:27:00 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
1877.335 |
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1880.98 |
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好 請主任秘書報告初期人數現在開會進行報告事項 請宣讀上次會議意思錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1893.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1909.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
立法院第十一屆第四會期內政委員會第十一次全體委員會議事錄時間一百十四年十一月二十日星期四上午九時至十二時四分地點紅樓二零二會議室初席委員蘇巧慧委員等十三人列席委員葉元之委員等九人 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1909.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1925.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
请下委员黄建斌委员一人列席官员海洋委员会主任委员管并临继相关人员主席王昭吉委员委员美会报告事项一宣读上次会议实录决定确定二邀请海洋委员会主任委员率同所属列席报告业务概况并被质询 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1926.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1951.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
海洋委員會主任委員管碧玲報告委員蘇巧慧等16人質詢分別由海洋委員會主任委員管碧玲及相關人員答覆說明決定一登記發言委員除不在場則外其餘均與發言完畢詢答結束二委員高金素梅黃建斌徐副委員陳冠廷所提書面質詢列入記錄刊登公報三書面質詢及未及答覆部分請相關機關於一週內另以書面答覆並複製本會宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1953.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1979.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
請問各位委員上次會議議事錄有無錯誤或遺漏無錯誤議事錄確定那現在繼續進行本日議程報告事項請宣讀邀請內政部部長國防部部長就普發新版台灣全民安全指引如何提升全民安全意識之政策效益評估進行專題報告並被質詢另請行政院主計總處派員列席備詢宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1981.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
2003.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
好現在介紹在場的委員及列席官員來為介紹我們的王美惠召委蘇巧惠委員黃婕黃婕委員出去啊那個張志文委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
2008.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
2036.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
那現在介紹列席的官員有內政部部長劉思芳劉部長民政司司長鄭英宏行政區化科科長嚴信吉議政司司長沈哲芳警政署副署長廖訓成首長劉安傑 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
2040.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
2069.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
組長陳炯志消防署副署長馮俊毅國防部經政副部長柏宏輝組織局處長陳偉炎陳慧婷全民防衛動員署副署長兼執行長林淳梅 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
2075.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
2077.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
物力動員處處長沈威智後備責務部參謀長薛淵全行政組紀總處專務委員吳明修那現在進現在請我們內政部劉世芳部長報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2113.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2140.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
周圍各位委員大家早感謝各位委員對於全民防衛任性工作的重視與支持今天內政部就普發新版台灣全民安全指引如何提升全民安全意識議題向各位委員進行專題報告以下為簡單的口頭報告第一強化社會整體任性提升全民面對危機的應變能力是國家安全的基石 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2140.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2160.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
本次將原來國防部的全民國防手冊改版為台灣全民安全指引目的就是在於針對天災疫病極端氣候乃至敵人侵略等挑戰提供民眾平時的準備與災時的應變資訊達到有準備更安全的政策目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2161.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2181.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
那參考捷克瑞典等國的經驗普發實體紙本這是因為考量國內部分高齡民眾並不熟悉線上下載而且災時可能面臨斷網停電等極端情況普發紙本是確保資訊的普及性降低數位落差的必要作為第二 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2182.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2197.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
指引內容與推廣的重點一災害應變與自救互助方面針對地震颱風包括晏曬湖等常見的災害安全指引內部內提供應變資訊與緊急避難包準備的清單 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2198.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2221.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
那內政部的消防署將持續利用多元社群媒體發布應變圖卡與懶人包並且在消防防災一點通APP中納入安全指引那內政部也規劃在明年115年度在該APP增列離線下載的功能確保民眾在斷網情況之下仍然能夠獲取關鍵的資訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2223.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2248.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
第二警報識別與防空避難為了確保極端狀況來臨時能夠迅速避難安全指引內明確說明了警報特徵並且協助民眾區分防空警報與海嘯警報的差異並且依照各式災害說明民眾在平時以及危機時的建議行動並且鼓勵民眾平時及做好準備防患未然 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2248.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2271.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
安全指引內也提供了警政服務APP及消防防災一點通APP的QR code平時可先行下載APP 熟悉周邊避難處所並且在手機儲存離線地圖以備不時之需當民眾收到國家級警報簡訊的時候點擊網址即可自動定位並且顯示附近的避難處所 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2272.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2289.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
另外 安全指引中也提示地下優於地上 室內優於室外的避難原則第三 守護家園需要你和我安全指引中續名了義警 義交 民防等的加入管道鼓勵民眾積極投入相關民防工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2290.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2309.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
另外替代役是災害防救體系當中的重要人力的資源備役役男將按其專長納入勤務編組我們規劃辦理初級救護員也就是EMT-1的繼續教育治安維護組訓練等等在持續強化其防救災的專業能力 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2310.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2336.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
第三 普發作業與經費行政院在114年10月23日核定國防部114年台灣全民安全指引普發計畫由國防部負責印製內政部則協助配合將安全指引送達至各家戶安全指引已從114年11月19日開始發送預計在明年也就是115年1月5日完成 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2337.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2346.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
若有民眾未能領取可向公所或村里長反映補發本次補發計畫之發送作業費及分擔費用共計21717800元由本部的預算來支應有關結語的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2352.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2379.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
本次普發工作是政府強化社會整體韌性落實全民防衛的重要環節安全指引系參考捷克瑞典芬蘭等國家的做法其能有效提升民眾在緊急或極端危機下的判斷力與自救互助能力以上簡單報告那同時呢因為有委員希望我們可以把這個警政跟消防的APP把它放出來我想我們在內政委員會的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2382.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2410.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
網路裡面把它用一個非常簡單的方式跟大家明示一下請幫我放一下好嗎可不可以轉換一下請各位看一下這是非常簡單的部分就是我們用頁面的方式來處理就是進入警政服務APP會點選防空避難專區那如果各位的手機裡面有GPS的功能的話就會把附近的幾個防空避難設施的點設計出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2411.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2420.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
所以根據一進入警政服務APP點選防空避難專區然後二點選防空避難設施三這會顯示避難設施的資訊包括他的路線規劃然後可以開始導航這是警政的部分那第二個呢消防防災一點通也是一樣他首頁裡面的點擊進去地圖以後他就會把旁邊的這個防災圖台把它顯示出來然後根據這個防災圖台用這個AR導 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2439.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2467.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
消防防災一點通的AR導航就可以知道目前手機也就是人所持的所在地附近的一個可以收容安置或是撤離疏散的地點那因為這個是屬於這個內政委員會的報告那沒有辦法用實體的操作那我們就用這樣的方式簡單的跟委員做一個簡單的報告以上的報告請各位委員多多指教謝謝好謝謝劉部長接下來我們請國防部博副部長洪輝報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2474.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2501.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
趙偉 各位委員先進感謝大院委員會對於台灣全民安全指引普發作業的關心與指導國防部於日前9月16號發布新版的全民國防手冊也就是當危機來臨時台灣全民安全的指引為主軸我們的主軸是有準備更安全的行動理念其內容是希望能夠達到 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2503.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2521.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
淺顯易懂的方式來編寫那我們主要普發的目的有以下幾個說明第一強化全民的安全意識這次我們是首次來推出紙本的實體的普發那普及率我們希望能夠達到全民 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2522.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2551.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
能够都拥有一侧能够做参考那第二项是有关于积极收整社会的回馈意见我们对于所普发的效果还有未来的回馈意见呢我们都采取普发和并行的方式来进行我们希望能够在所谓的安全指引降低数位落差的确保极端情况下都能够立即的发挥我们全部 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2551.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2555.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
國防安全手冊的這個效益第三個我們是強調是與國際來接軌現在我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2559.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2586.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
包括捷克法國瑞典芬蘭愛沙尼亞以及立陶宛等國家呢都已經規劃了類似於我們國家的全民安全手冊的指引那麼其目的也就是希望能夠藉由這個方式能夠提醒在所有全民不管是在災變或是有任何的危難緊急情況發生的時候全民有一個方式來做一個避難或是一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2589.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2609.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
指引的方式那这都是一个要提升全社会防疫任性的一个最基本的一个要件补发的规划至于说印刷的数量我想大家都非常清楚也就是一万一千万本包含了十万五千本的英语版那另外在 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2610.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2626.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
印制费用来讲的话我们是依照国防法的预算法的第70条申请第二预备金因为我们过去原来在9月份的时候我们希望普发5000但是呢在规模上来讲我们提升到1100万本的时候呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2628.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2656.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
我們發現到這個經費遠遠不足所以我們申請依照預算法第七條我們申請第二預備金來支應總計是新台幣4279萬餘元那安全指引的效益評估呢就本身來講我們希望強化全面安全意識提升國家的韌性另外剛才所提到與國際來接軌那這些都是我們在未來在普發以後希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2656.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2677.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
能夠藉由這種追蹤所有的效果能不能達到他的充分準備那我想這一份手冊是一個長期且必要的公共投資那普發計畫將確保每一個家戶都能夠得到安全的指引提供民眾危機應變的資訊進而提升全民國防安全及防災的意識以強化社會的防衛人性以上報告 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2688.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2705.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
謝謝博副部長現在進行詢答那委員質詢前原力做幾點宣告第一 每位委員發言時間本委員會委員五分鐘必要時得延長兩分鐘非本會委員五分鐘那早上10點30分截止發言登記 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2715.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2744.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
第二今天的臨時提案截止提出時間是10點30分與本會委員會答詢完畢後處理請各位委員有沒有意見那現在進行詢答請登記第一位的蘇喬會委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2756.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2764.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
好 謝謝主席 我們請內政部劉部長還有國防部我們的伯父部長 共同上台請內政部 國防部 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2766.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2791.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
委員早部長早 副部長早我們今天要討論的是這個剛剛普發的這個台灣全民安全指引這一本書那我們很希望能夠了解它的目的 過程以及效益好 那在這個過程當中我第一個想確認一下剛剛兩位都有上台報告所以在這一本安全指引的分工上面我是不是可以簡單認為這本書主要的編撰負責其實是國防部 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2795.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2799.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
但內政部其實是作為一個最重要的諮詢參考機關以及如何發送到全台灣各家各戶的手上我這樣認知的分工兩個部門這樣對嗎兩個部會我想委員講的正確包括行政院跟國安會都有指導 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2816.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2819.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
好那在這樣簡單在這樣的過程當中我等一下的問題就會依照這樣的分工來請教兩位所以我先各請教一下請問副部長國防部我們博副部長這本書的目的你檢答一下好不好委員我剛才非常清楚也就是說因應這個天然災害對天然災害複合式災難發生的時候複合式災難尤其是比如說像花蓮艷澀湖事件都是一個在複合式災難裡面所 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2845.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2850.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
簡單講就是為了天災人禍的時候讓大家知道面對天災人禍人怎麼做好準備社會怎麼做好準備是這樣子的一個讓社會增加韌性這樣的狀況來 部長請問一下劉部長請問一下我們平常內政部過去有單獨的地震指引消防指引這樣子的狀況嗎也有對不對我們以前大概都是透過這個網站上面來宣傳其實也都有對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2875.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2896.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
但是我們覺得這個宣導性仍然會存在有數位落差沒有錯所以如果大家在數大家上網去看其實不管是在這個地震指引啊或者是防空指引或者是消防指引其實都有但這一本安全指引就是把它合而為一讓大家手上一本可以看到幾乎所有的天災人禍 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2898.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2905.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
到底我們要怎麼面對所以這主要是這樣的一本書我認為利益良善啊而且如果從剛剛兩位的報告當中從編轉加發送這樣全部的經費發送下來計算下來之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2913.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2925.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
如果家戶都能夠拿到這樣一本合而為一的災難準備的安全指引守則其實一個家戶大概是六到七塊錢其實是很划算這樣的狀況如果大家能夠熟讀讓整個社會知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2929.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2941.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
面對災難你要怎麼做這其實一戶一家一戶六到七元我認為其實是划算的好 可是那我現在就伯父部長我想請教你的部分就是你這個在面對天災人禍的時候你還分成了平時就是災難還沒有來的時候和災難來了以後這樣子的狀況來做邊轉 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2951.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2955.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
我認為這個相當不錯 而且呢現在這本新版的守則裡面比起舊版的過去這個條列式這樣非常教科書的狀況現在改成了插畫的漫畫式的這樣的圖式等等其實是讓大家比較好吸收你看左邊的是過去舊版的現在新版的這個部分其實是容易掌握很多可是 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2974.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2976.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
我覺得天災人禍平時暫時你都分通得很好但你看這本書發送下來以後社會這次有在討論實質內容嗎比起2023年大家討論實質內容編轉得如何這次大家討論的是如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2989.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
3006.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
其實我看到很多說法這次的說法最主要這本書發了以後是明年要打仗還是浪費公帑這個安全指引發送了就某程度宣布了台灣現在很危險準備要打仗了不投降 甚至還有一種說法是不投降從來都不是一個負責任的政府該做的甚至有人是拍下了照片說手冊已經是被當成廢紙丟到回收桶了 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
3017.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
3033.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
現在這本安全指引守則剛剛大家已經說了這是把過去所有的指引合而為一來面對天災人禍的總準備這樣的一本書可是現在坊間的說法是這樣請問國防部你對坊間現在這樣的輿論你有什麼回應你做了什麼報告員我想我們社會大眾對於我們這樣子守則的發放有很多的指教和批評那我們國防部在 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
3047.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
3061.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
意見中整上來講我們都會收整相關的意見作為下次的改進的一個參考那另外我必須要強調今天外面坊間所說的災難發生的時候或者是說你今天會有其他的 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
3062.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
3082.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
作战的这种想定的这种情况我想在我们今天面对一个强敌的一个情况之下我们任何的情况都必须要去做预先的推演那我们也是模仿现在俄乌战争以后在欧洲的这些国家他先进的国家也依照这个方法来制定他全民防卫手册的一个 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
3083.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
3089.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
全民防衛任性的一個要求所以我們比照這種精神和國際接軌也同時製定了這一本我尊重你的專業我也覺得你用心良苦利益良善編串這一本這本的內容我贊成但是我正是認為你的這本內容裡面少了你現在我質詢你的這個部分就是在平時面對錯假訊息你要怎麼處理什麼是錯假訊息我來看到縱觀全本守則裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
3113.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3127.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
其實這就只有19和20是在討論資訊的部分而且在平時對資訊的部分就只有第9頁啊這平時對資訊的部分你目前談的只有資安但沒有如何面對錯假訊息 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3128.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3132.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
而你現在第一步被面對的就是你這本指引出來就已經被攻擊成這是一本要宣誓作戰這是一本需要可以丟到回收桶這樣的狀況了這就是不正確的訊息嘛這跟剛剛我們上台在講這是一本教台灣人民面對天災人禍的時候最好的指引那你沒有回應啊部長 副部長對不起我們請讓劉部長上台一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3155.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3161.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
部長我知道內容不是你編轉的但是因為你平常比較常面對錯假訊息所以如果是您的話內政部來講的話當你做出一本這樣的指引卻有這麼多的錯假訊息出來的時候內政部假設如果是你負責的話你會怎麼做報告委員我相信提供這樣子的錯誤訊息的人可能不是在台灣出生長大 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3176.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3202.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
因為大家都知道台灣每一年的地震或者是天災包括現在大家看到了這麼多天災的狀況之下你要不要了解一下身處台灣這樣子多災多難的一個國家我們要不要看一下裡面的內容所以我覺得提供這個訊息的要不要就是公主病要不要王子病他可能是在無城市長大的所以無論怎麼樣所有台灣的人都不是公主也不是王子我希望先看一下內容再決定要不要丟到回收桶 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3202.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3206.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
好 我們謝謝主席今天給我們這麼好的一個機會讓大家真正的來展示來了解一下這一本台灣全民安全指引裡面的內容到底在說什麼這是一本讓全國民眾了解天災人禍的時候你要怎麼做平時準備和災難來臨時的準備這不是一本宣告戰爭的書我認為國防部你作為一個主責單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3230.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3233.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
其實第一 在內容裡面應該要增設台灣社會對錯假訊息的準備這是第一點第二 即便在這個第一版反正你還會有好幾版嘛在這一版裡面如果沒有提到那你現在在態度上 在行動上你就應該要來面對當這本書發行之後的錯假訊息你要大大的公佈啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3252.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3265.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
我期待今天的這個詢答的過程其實是你最好發揮的時候希望國防部內政部及相關單位能夠利用今天的詢答把這本安全指引到底目的是什麼報告全部台灣社會謝謝好謝謝蘇巧慧委員的詢詢接下來請張志榮委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3280.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3303.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
好 謝謝主席 各位委員 各位官員 大家早有請由內政部劉四方部長以及國防部的博副部長請劉部長及博副部長張委員早好 我先請教博部長部長早 今天我們大家討論的是這本最近很紅的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3305 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3323.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
小局書喔來討論這個當危機來臨時喔台灣全民安全指引那我想要先請教的一個部分喔就這一本喔我裡面所拿到的是好像是第一版的內容喔裡面沒有這個賴總統的簽名那在第一版的部分喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3323.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3349.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
他是發行的5000份那今天討論的是這個第二版的部分就是國防部用了4279萬元然後印製了1100萬本決定要發到各家各戶我想要請教為什麼會有兩個不同的版本那為什麼第一版的時候當時賴清德總統沒有簽名那第二版的時候後來賴總統才想說要簽名要多印這麼多份 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3351.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3365.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
關於我們在九月份的時候我們印製五千本的時候這個時候我們在所有跨部會在討論的時候大家就建議因為我們總統有成立在去年全社會防疫任期的委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3366.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3395.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
那在裡面呢大家也提到全民國防這個手冊那為什麼第一版的時候當時是忘記簽名還是忘記印了嗎因為我們當時的時候我們討論目前是我們國防部由行政院下售給我們來做指導然後來做那後來我們在九月份以後大家發現這個忘記簽名了不是獲得大家的好評好我幫你唸一下其實這個副部長你這邊有寫他說因為你們 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3395.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3424.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
覺得內容淺顯易懂的方式來編寫並搭配視覺吸睛的設計風格深獲各界的正面肯定與迴響希望索取或授權印製紙本這是你們內部寫的所以我認為這就是國防部的馬屁文化所以我希望說這種馬屁文化大可不必我們推出這本小局書的主要目的就像剛剛劉思芳部長講的我們是為了防災讓全民在受到災難 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3425.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3437.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
或是未來可能的戰爭風險的時候必須要有充足的準備所以我需要說未來要發這本冊子的時候可以一次性的整體的把內容都給確定之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3438.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3458.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
再來做發放那第二個我也要請教在第一次發放的時候是五千多份第二次我們花了這個人民的納稅錢六千四百五十萬來發放這樣的資料那用動用的是第二預備金那動用第二預備金我相信不管是很多的委員或是大家很狐疑的是為什麼要動用第二預備金不能難道 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3459.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3484.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
我們的發放不僅是簽名忘了簽連預算都忘了編嗎為什麼不用我們的一般的預算來去做發放要用第二預備金因為大家都知道說第二預備金是在有些臨時的情況或者是災難發生的時候才會用第二預備金那一般預算也好經過立法院來審查用第二預備金的時候很多時候立法院是無法審查的是不是可以請部長回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3485.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3508.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
因為我們第一次在印製5000本的時候事實上來講那個時候我們有編列預算來做印製那後來我們要決定這個效果非常好的時候我們要增加的時候我們發現到我們自己本身在年度預算不足所以我們才依照預算法第70條我們來申請第二餘倍金好 希望說這個就是那以後未來你們的做法會是什麼樣的做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3509.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3527.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
如果這個我們在發放以後我們事實上我們會做追蹤和管考如果這個效果很好如果這個在未來來講有需求那我們國防部會循正確的這個編列預算方式來做執行好 謝謝副部長那接下來我請劉施放部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3531.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3555.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
部長好我這個小局書裡面的內容本席有努力認真去研讀那裡面的APP我都有下載那當然在下載這些APP的時候我們有發現裡面兩個最希望大家去下載的APP一個是警政系統的APP另外一個是消防系統的APP可是我們在看到的時候當然很多人在請教的就是說第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3556.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3580.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
這樣警政APP它是沒有離線地圖功能的那消防系統是有離線地圖功能的那當然在使用上會有大家認為有些好使用一些不好使用的一個部分可是我認為裡面資訊當然有一些正確與否或是兩個APP裡面內容有關於避難收容人數不一致的一個部分我想是不是部長這邊有了解相關的情形那未來要如何來解決這樣的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3581.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3599.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
好謝謝我想是不是請警察就像我剛剛這裡面有一個對有一個是收容像我們立法院隔壁有一個收容處是可以收容1416人那另外一個APP裡面只有說可以收容645人那這樣的問題可是有一定的標準我是請他們很簡單跟委員會問一下好請簡單說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3604.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3626.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
跟委員報告一下 這個是我們警政APP它的一個防空避難的一個處所 它裡面跟消防的這一個比如說那個在內部某一個地點 它可能是消防組的它是用經緯度所以它會弄 那邊有兩個避難處所 它可能同一個經緯度 它就變成一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3626.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3640.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
那我們是兩個避難處所所以這裡面統計出來的容納人數就會不一樣可是就我而言容納人數是應該是這個大樓他的面積能容納的人數好像跟經緯度我不知道關聯性在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3642.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3659.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
那就是說這個防空避難室的這個設置是依照建築技術規則設置而來所以建築技術規則在核准這個住宅裡面它的地下室可以容納多少人的時候它這個資料就會給我們這一個轄區的警察單位來列管它的防空避難室 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3659.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3679.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
那這個部分我簡單講實際的關係那現在的差異數到底是要用警政還是用消防的不管委員我來回應一下好了就是警政跟消防系統他們所用的參數不一樣所以答案會不一樣一個不是用同一套標準一個有點位一個就是用那個地方的警政系統去做處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3679.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3705.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
我跟委員報告如果真的碰到狀況的話呢你只要看到外面貼有那個防空避難的那個指引標誌就可以過去那人數的多寡的話我們會再做處理就是第一個因為我們可能是要收容外面的人裡面的譬如說住在那棟大樓沒有問題但是你那個大樓要對外開放那對外開放可以收容多少人這個部分呢需要再做一個比較詳細的評估所以這邊的答案是沒有錯誤的 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3706.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3718.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
沒有錯人數不一致耶我剛講過了因為他說影音樓參數不一樣那我最後地方警察去謝謝部長那部長特別有請到特別有提到就是大樓地下室的收容人數那 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3720.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3741.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
這邊因為當時我們這個內政部也是請這個里長民政系統下去發放那我在想兩個問題第一個是要請教說未來這些大樓地下室的收容空間很多都是這個私人的大樓住宅這個部分會不會其實很多委員在提到會不會未來民眾要去避難的時候這些大樓是不開放的這些大樓在事前有沒有知道說 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3742.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3771.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
他們地下室是要給人家來避難收容的我們的地方警察機關去貼那個標示的時候呢大樓管委會員都知道而且如果有碰到空防警報發放的時候他們必須打開那這是根據我們民防法的規定好這是第一個問題所以部長這邊很明確指示未來這些大樓有被指示說是防空避難室的未來都一定要讓民眾進去避難嗎這是您的意思嗎不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3772.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3789.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
自己的大樓的民眾當然要往地下室避難但是外面如果有臨時過來的人的話呢那就是他在空房的時候呢就必須要對外開放在空房的時候才要對外開放好那好那最後我想要再請教部長的時候這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3791.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3812.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
我們現在所有的這個防災的問題我們有沒有因為我們說要請里長來協助嘛那未來有沒有希望說編一些預算給里長平時的做一些的防驗這個訓練的這個部分有報告委員我們有兩套一個就是防災協作中心的成立那另外一個呢就是防災式的訓練現在全台灣的村里長的防災式訓練已經達到三分之一以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3813.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3840.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
對我說里長的房災市是有取得資格那未來是不是有里內的一個整個房災的房災協作中心裡面就是會根據里的部分需要什麼樣子的一個應變準備物資放在鄉鎮公所或是區公所那如果里有需求的話呢我們會針對因為我知道那個委員所說的可能是大里比較大的里那有需要協助的話呢我們會再跟縣市地方政府來做這個差異上面看怎麼樣處理比較好好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3844.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3863.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
好謝謝張志榮委員的質詢接下來我們請張宏祿發言我請劉部長跟伯父部長劉部長跟伯父部長張委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3869.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3889.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
我想先請伯父部長我想請問一下這個從1978年開始我們台灣就都有辦這個叫萬安演習對不對那它的目的是什麼萬安演習就是防空演習也就是民眾如果有遇到 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3890.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3918.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
像空襲的這種情況的話可以就地掩蔽和避難好 那我們現在是不是有城鎮韌性對不對 掩襲就叫民安掩襲民安掩襲對不對 是這可能很多人都還不知道也搞不清楚是不是伯父部長你可以解釋一下所謂外安掩襲我們是所謂的防空避難民安掩襲的話是屬於人力和物力的動員的樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3920.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3930.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
這樣支援我們社會在這個遇到災變的時候我們所有社會的這個有名利和物質的這樣子正用的方式來做演習 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3931.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3958.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
所以城镇任性这个民安演习那个其实是现在我们政府积极在推动国家任性等等的一个很重要的一个演习项目是的每一年都有必要做的是必要做的但很多人其实还不知道你去问你去路上问城镇任性演习民安演习是什么可能大家不大清楚是 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3959.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3986.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
副部長再給你幾秒鐘的時間再大聲跟全國人說一下什麼是民安演習民安演習目前我們國安部每一年在做演習的時候民安演習是必須實施的項目那這個項目裡面是有關於人力物力的動員的資源來維護社會的這樣子一個運作的方式所以這是一個非常嚴重的重要演習 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3987.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
4009.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
沒有錯所以我們今天國防部做這一本冊子其實跟以前的防空演習是不一樣的概念那我們是要成正任性民安演習其實這一本冊子裡面很多的內容其實可以跟民安演習是可以扣在一起的吧是不是這樣是的委員講一點都沒錯但是我們的範圍是擴大了 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
4011.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
4018.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
是把所有過去沒有的這樣子的比如說像今年的彥聖湖事件就是一個很特殊的一個天災那我們針對這個是把所有的演習的狀況集中在這裡面來做一個全民的一個教育和宣導沒有錯啊花了一筆錢當然多宣導多宣傳一些是好事啊對不對但他的基本精神他的價值應該就是配合民安演習吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
4041.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
4057.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
我特別這樣說委員你可以這麼說但是問題是這裡面所包含的範圍更廣泛更廣泛沒有錯我剛剛就說更廣泛我們當然是啊做好充足的準備啊怕敵之不來而已啊有以待之啊但 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
4058.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
4075.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
這一本冊子我如果可以這樣講這個其實是民安演習裡面一個非常重要的一個宣導然後讓大家知道這個陳正任性民安演習對未來的重要性這裡面當然包括天災當然包括什麼我們是不是可以這樣子說 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
4076.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
4100.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
委員就廣義的上來講是可以這樣子可以這樣子說當然你們還有一些比較細節但現在很多人在講發這本冊子在幹什麼的其實我們要讓人民知道民眾知道這個就是我們現在推的陳正任信我們的明蘭演習你要讓人民知道那人民這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
4101.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
4117.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
觀念一灌輸裡面他就知道這本冊子是要幹什麼的啊是的這也是一個很重要的理念是不是應該是可以這樣子說可以這麼說可以這麼說嘛好嘛那你這樣跟全國講大家就知道了嘛不然我看今天會有很多質詢會私交這個是我今天請教你的問題是謝謝委員長 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4122.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4146.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
那刘部长那个副部长等一下我也觉得这个非常好非常好但大家刚刚有我看应该报章杂志上也有很多不一样的说法什么的我觉得这本册子非常好不错不过这个刘部长他们他们现在诈骗什么的我们的建议之后他们做得非常好 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4148.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4168.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
部長跟副部長你們有沒有想過在鄉下的人這一本書很好不過叫他看那麼多他也可能沒有辦法看那麼多而且有的人都老花眼了你知道嗎你要叫他這樣子其實有點困難 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4169.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4171.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
有沒有想跟國防部說這個這麼好我們是不是也可以拍一些小短片30秒的然後分重點然後可以去宣導我不知道這個委員的建議很好我們馬上來處理看怎麼樣比較好 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4186.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4209.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
因為你也提到我們這次是解決數位落差跟資訊落差那如果有的人覺得這個字太小或者是字數太多我們當然是希望他就放在客廳裡面有事情的話就翻閱一下而不是看完就丟那剛剛也有委員提到說這本叫小局書我想這本小局書一定比小紅書更有這個資訊的參考性質那我們會來多多宣傳 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4210.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4237.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
對啦 我的意思是說我跟你講這個是我們的民安演習陳正任性的這個我覺得這個他平常都用得到但是你如果要叫七八十歲九十歲的人每天看這個我也有看了一下這個大家年紀都有一點點了也不年輕了我也很年輕啦不不 我們看久了都有點吃力 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4239.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4258.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
這個有的你還要消化然後有的字有的什麼的其實對他們來講對長輩來講我真的覺得字對他們來講有點吃力這點可能是我們我們來多做宣傳還有多語的宣傳也是一個重點對 多管道因為你們現在的詐騙用實例用什麼這樣很多人都看得懂了 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4264.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4272.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
那可以跟國防部啊溝通一下然後呢拍一些小影片或什麼的我覺得反而啊更容易讓大家知道這樣可以吧那個國務部長你覺得勒委員 建議非常好我們回去會比照辦理是 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4284.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4300.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
對啊你看我們軍中我們有非常好的這個弟兄們什麼的請他們出來拍或什麼或配合那個義警義消等等的我覺得是個非常好的宣傳方式啦好謝謝好謝謝下一位我們請黃建斌召委謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4315.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4319.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
謝謝主席主席我們有請先請國防部我博副部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4325.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4350.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
部長好部長接下來我想我們的小局書會即將取代農民曆成為全台灣家戶必須收藏的書籍我們今天安排這個專題報告最主要是因為最近普發全民國防手冊造成了不少的爭議包括第二倍金然後以及印上賴金的總統簽名還有普發工作造成很多基層的 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4351.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4375.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
人員疲於奔命最重要的是說很多人都質疑說這本手的車在緊急狀況的時候它是否真的有它的實用性那因此特別我們請國防部專案報告還有備詢希望你們也能夠將今天各位的意見能夠持續的來去做檢討跟精進以及後續的這相關政策也避免最重要是避免造成我們基層人員的困擾跟這個負擔那我想好那接下來我想要請劉事長 劉部長謝謝韋陽 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4386.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4412.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
部長首先要肯定內政部那在本席積極的協調下我們內政部行政院跟內政部我們同意把台東縣現有兩塊兩位屁股體力還給我們天后宮落實還地於民也守護了在地重要的信仰這個傳承這點我想要給我們內政部來感謝不過最近我們針對賴清德總統他公布的這個工地放零的這個政策本席有幾點想要跟你進一步來討論我想先請教部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4413.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4435.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
不然你還可以記錄我們今年六月份今年六月份本席在內政委員會就有跟部長來爭取說內政部應該以以南大南澳台州的土地公立放領為例持續推動全國的公立放領以我們台東縣特別是要以台東地區來優先來實施盡速跟我們地方來做研議推動我們公立放領的政策不然你還記錄嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4436.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4443.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
報告委員我有跟你答應過但是現在我跟委員講一下說我們現在進度是超前第一個就是宜蘭的大南澳台地本來叫市辦然後市辦的時候就是以台東縣這邊為主後來我們跟財政部一起清查過後跟獲得行政院的同意我們現在就是所有的這些部分只要清查出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4461.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4481.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
他具有這個我們規定上面所說的要65年以前然後連續耕作那我們就按照原來的部分就全部要處理所以跟委員報告超前我們現在內政部已經成立這個審議委員會那今天我們就會發函請包括台東縣在內的縣政府要成立工作小組 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4482.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4491.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
因為我記得當時是跟部長要求說一個月內要趕快回覆然後部長說前次的事情必須要多一點時間因為是財政部他在清查的時候因為台東縣最多所以我都不敢答應奇怪是內政部忘記跟我們立法院來報告為什麼我們還沒有收到消息的時候總統就先公佈了 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4506.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4530.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
沒有沒有我們擔心的是這樣部長擔心的是說第一個當然說如果不管今天是怎樣這個政策如果重要的話當時部長都說要嚴厲的話那我們在不知情的情況下總統就公佈我們擔心的是會不會這樣急救章的推出真的影響到其他農民的權利沒有我想委員你上次這個事情不能清拆委員你上次一定有聽我講過我們現在最大的重點在清查清查是最困難的OK |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4531.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4543.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
然後清查你要決定他是國有平地耕地還是國有山坡地耕地然後是不是符合國土保育原則那我也跟委員報告從17年前到現在有很多法律已經在修正譬如說有這個這個原住民的這個這個進法補償或者其他 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4548.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4577.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
這些可能要排除或者你要排除漁權要排除這個台大實驗林等等這些那都必須要跨部會協商那因為如果跨部會協商的話一定要到行政院以上的這些政務委員來做協調所以那時候並不是說沒有照這個進度而是我們超過這個進度在處理那所以呢這個總統在上個禮拜週末的時候他公布的時候是公布這個政策那政策公布之後我們內政部的地政單位可以處理的都已經先處理了 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4578.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4579.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
那不過部長就剛剛你提到說總統公佈的這些條件我們就在討論條件的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4586.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4608.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
他依據我們總統的提出的這個工地放寧條件第一個就是必須在1976年民國1976年就是9月25年65年進行跟政府就訂定契約到現在這第一個嘛對不對第一個就是你要符合有國有工國有耕地放寧實施辦法還有國有邊際養殖用地放寧實施辦法就是這兩個條件符合這兩個條件這個對很多農民聽起來聽起來比較簡單 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4614.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4640.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
說起來比較簡單 聽起來比較複雜為什麼會這樣講部長你也知道台東縣的土地是複雜我們台東縣是山多平原少然後公有地占了87%然後又涉及到的是財政部 國防部 農業部還有中央主管機關跟國營事業土地複雜得最多比其他縣市更加寬因此台東縣其實在本期上週回去台東的時候很多農民都很擔心說 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4641.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4642.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
現在我們工地放領的這個是現在國有的平地耕作跟養殖戶第一個我們的三多平平地這個部分就是一個限制 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4661.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4684.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
很多人 他可能耕作多人 他是在山區他是山丘地 山坡地 耕作地他第一個就被排除在外了嘛 這第一個問題嘛第二個很多農民要擔心的是說公地放年只限什麼 自耕農有的農民他做幾十米之後 他耕不到他早期的主業早就找不到了然後第二個就是年紀大 他沒辦法再耕作然後所以他的土地 繼承權過戶給他的兒女的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4687.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4714.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
他兒子死了可能他沒農報啊所以他沒辦法贖人家是根農嘛所以這個可能照他幾十年的等待就是一場空那第三個會擔心的是什麼台東很多農民早期是像退府會台塘甚至是台營土地租用租用這些土地這些人也都不符合恐怕都不符合在這一次公立放領的對象裡面所以我們根據你們內政部提供的這些簡報資料台東公立放領的面積達到了608公頃 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4716.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4735.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
全國最多 這個跟我們隔壁的屏東縣比起來將近多了兩倍 將近是大概兩倍啦但是台東縣符合這樣條件的人數只有752人這個人數大概是屏東縣的一半面積是台東縣的兩倍 人口數是屏東的一半 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4736.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4762.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
那這樣現在政策相對是模糊我們台東縣的境內的狀況又很特殊因此台東很多農民擔心說最後能夠成功申請到放寧的人他可能比你們預估的人數還要少所以我們想在這裡讓我們中央這個不要玩文字遊戲因為他們等了一輩子等了那麼久他們期待著這些事情不要好不容易有了希望結果到後來 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4764.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4787.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
所以本期今天會提出一個臨時提案也要求我們內政部在一個月以內邀集相關的部會還有我們地方政府來擬去這個工地放寧的清澈並針對我們台東縣的特殊狀況來做研議就像我們提到那個地形的關係然後還有就是重寬重塑的推動我們工地放寧的政策讓這項德政能夠真的落實到民眾的 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4787.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4787.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
我會回應 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4801.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4827.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
那報告委員第一個我們根據現有的行政命令來處理所以並沒有所說的有模糊的空間第二個呢我剛講過有新的法令譬如說你牽涉到國土保安還有牽涉到信賴保護原則的部分狀況之下我們的所有原則都非常清楚三個原則兩個辦法然後你剛所提到台東跟屏東那是因為屏東的土地的比數是台東的兩倍 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4828.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4834.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
不是面積多寡 你又寡很多人然後再來有關於它是自耕農的這個只要有延續是跟財政部的國有財產署有訂約那我們會來請國有財產署來從寬認定因為我們內政部所處理是土地的清查那清查出來以後它這個清查土地的所有者有沒有跟國有財產署繼續去簽那個契約 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4851.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4868.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
那就是由這個國有財產署來認定所以我剛剛才說我們今天會請縣市地方政府趕快成立工作小組因為國有財產署他手上就是所有的清單名冊都有但是他在對證譬如說有的人可能已經往生但是他是不是繼續跟國產署有訂定契約那應該就是沒有太大的問題但是這個是財政部認定 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4874.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4880.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
我都聽到委員的建議在處理啊 你在抄錢啊所以是不是跟我們上禮拜聽到的 其實不太簡單嘛 對不對不是不是 沒有沒有沒有第一個 站在我們的跟那個財政部一起來協辦的立場上面第一個 法律沒有改變第二個 信賴保護原則沒有改變第三個 國土保育是新增加的如果你那個地方是有艷澀湖的危險或那個地方有土石流 你現在放你出去 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4903.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4910.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
是害了他們所以這個部分要排除我們是臨時提案是委員的權益但是那個財政部的部分我們尊重財政部他們的處理的規範好不好好謝謝部長謝謝好謝謝主席好謝謝下一位我們請王美惠委員謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4943.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4950.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
主席 在這裏我們博長 還有博副部長好 請劉部長還有博副部長議員好 博長 教授在這裏本市要跟你們先探討一個問題今天要說不發新版的台灣專民的安全指引 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4968.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4978.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
在這個過程當中你們差不多在十五個月我們開始發放發放第一半的跟你們的心態是覺得說這不錯所以我們才有第二半的是這樣是不是再來在你們發第二半的時候在本席看起來第一半的跟第二半的都沒有差別跟差這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4997.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
5001.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
就是最近發生花蓮那個禮物要給大家買了你們的用心是什麼來請回答一下喂我跟您報告這個舊版和新版事實上來講我們也是結合了現況來做調整現況所以你可以把花蓮這個災害這個禮物把它放進去那至於說裡面內容我們也依照第一版很多 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
5027.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
5051.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
大家的建議啊把很多像比如說很多像影音版的這個很大的這樣數據的我們是用這個QR Code的方式你可以去在裡面去看那比如說舉例來講比如說防空避難設施那我們就把它放在這裡面那所以舊版和新版裡面是調整了很多的內容更加的豐富因為在本社的感覺 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
5054.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
5060.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
再加上我們總統的簽名您是好意 總統也很關心台灣的安全現在讓大家公開 覺得沒有你們的用心在這個過程 我想要向保護部長說我們在這幾次的災害當中 為百姓 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
5080.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
5082.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
來拍拚來服務維新是人感動啊在這也拜託回去讓我們的國軍兄弟說聲謝謝他們有他們真好謝謝委員的關心在你剛才本席跟你說的時候你有說 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
5099.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
5104.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
納入大家的意見在本席的看法上早上跟你們說的時候你們就第二半印好了在這裡 你有覺得說在第七天 說實在很厲害 很厲害因為你們今天要印這份是希望我們的事大 看得很清楚我再說實在 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
5129.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
5138.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
伯父部長 太小智了是 鮑威我自己老花眼我都看不清楚 我覺得要改進不在你們的用心 我覺得我們既然要讓大人來看清楚的時候像你說的 你自己又看不清楚我也覺得 本席在這裡覺得 我們印這份出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
5155.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
5166.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
一定要有那個效果我覺得這很好讓北省了解說我們如何安全要做什麼的時候應該大家都看得到是的 謝謝委員長來 部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
5178.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5181.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
在這裡 本市要跟你談到做這份的選擇的用意就是要讓大家更清楚、更安全嘛在本市所了解 你們10月開始分差不多分到每年1月左右但是本市在等候的時候會感覺會比較期待因為我們要分到到位 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5206.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5206.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
因為他們是依依依依依依依依依依 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5229.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5232.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
到一月的時候 本地的政府都有本農民利我們可以作為給他們本的時候 比較夠到位所以 本市要跟你們說 我們不是說他們出來而已我們也要有那個效果 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5255.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5257.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
因為大家社區都會做談會我們也願意讓我們的市長、我們的部長、當地的管理長 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5270.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5270.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
說一說這不錯我們社區座談會的時候可以站出來讓當地的理事也好理事長也好跟我們這裡的市長來講這樣好不好來 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5286.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5291.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
感謝委員的關心我們發放給他更清楚內政部是有邀請地方政府開會他們說如果要補償更清楚的時候我們會掛一些手續費所以基本上地方政府跟發放的手續費我們是一分兩元 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5304.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5307.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
所以我們要按照這個方式但是如果裡面有四角柴的地方我們要按照這個委員的指導我們才來改善然後我們不是十月開始搬啦十月那個國防部還沒印好啦國防部11月底才印好那是五千分 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5322.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5325.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
五千分的本對啦 第一屆的一屆啦我講的是說第一屆啦第一屆的五千分 那一屆我們十月開始本嘛本來的時候你會覺得說 有人覺得不錯我們再來贏 我們再來追加第二億一百千在裡面的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5343.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5347.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
我就是說 我們可以再改善就好了不是本來 農民力這裡是大人的現代化現在農民力越做越大份就要讓大人看得清楚所以我們日本要硬得大份對啦 我也覺得說硬得大力硬得大份對對對我告訴你 日本要硬得大力大份不然大家都老花眼不過我們錢也要省 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5372.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5374.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
也不能飲料太大份啊我們也不能亂開啊在這裡 部長本來要說在消防的APP裡面本來有去看應該所有的動民都有看到中興大陸我們立法院裡面裡面可以融入2,284個 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5402.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5405.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
不然 你知道我們的中心大樓 樓梯這麼小跟我們的電梯 如果放債的時候 不可以坐電梯嘛要早早早的時候 我們的樓梯這麼黑 又這麼難走 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5423.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5431.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
我們真的能夠融入2284個嗎報告委員 所以為什麼我們希望大家可以看這個APP在中興大樓以外 我們對面好好有 我知道 我們有附近還有4個地方可以我們的消防署最好的地方就是你所在地的附近5個地方都可以去 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5444.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5461.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
不是只有一個地方那可能也會造成像那個委員所說的是不是會有擁擠這樣狀況所以我們才是一直強調說這些防空避難都需要做演習讓大家知道怎麼過去然後不要造成其他的演習我們說自己要演習東西清清的 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5466.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5481.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
他都會照顧起來我最高興的就是大樓私人的大家訂到一大堆這又不是我阿彌陀佛去賣的這是監察院今年七月賣的大樓咧跟你們說訂到這樣跟你們說要去買 要去買東西跟你們說要去買東西跟你們說要去買東西跟你們說要去買東西跟你們說要去買東西跟你們說要去買東西跟你們說要去買東西跟你們說要去買東西跟你們說要去買東西跟你們說要去買東西跟你們說要去買東西跟你們說要去買東西跟你們說要去買東西跟你們說要去買東西跟你們說要去買東西跟你們說要去買東西跟你們說要去買東西跟你們說要去買東西跟你們說要去買東西跟你們說要去買東西跟你們說要去買東西跟你們說要去買東西跟你們說 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5494.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5498.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
所以我希望說這是安全的問題我們要去克服樹林的大樓要處理再來謝謝 不好意思 再給我一點點時間在這裡面 你們說到說我們要準備那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5516.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5524.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
不是 那個收容的 你們知道嗎 因為時間不夠 我沒辦法來講很多在那個選修隊裡面 我們有說過要準備防災的東西 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5534.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5536.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
現在就是說 普通人 我也要 你這個必然背包裡面在選修隊自己採購的 裡面所有的 我們也要改進 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5550.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5558.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
我們現在還在做這個 跟你叫選手隊的來到三天來做的時候來賓不能去做這個 不能申請是不是保證你們未來要來這個避難背包的訴求 要來納入不像說的 叫佩穗準備跟人家很辛苦 要叫人準備 還不能申請 不能做 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5580.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5586.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
這樣是不是沒什麼對嗎是不是補充你要去研議一下我來研議好不好因為我也希望地方政府可以倒三天因為順序對大部分是以地方政府的提案來成立的我知道 剛才我是說補充不管是最好可以自己準備好因為他要放什麼東西比較重要對啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5600.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5604.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
要放什麼東西的時候 我的意思就是說最不基本的要放的東西我們叫白色的要準備啊 跟我們社區要準備沒辦法 申請錢 這也很奇怪好不好 去研議一下 因為我還有幾個條問題的時候 我要用書面 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5625.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5641.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
謝謝大家跟大家繼續努力我們不是要戰爭我們是要讓中華民國的台灣更好因為風災災害也很多所以大家互相加油互相幫忙謝謝謝謝王美惠委員的質詢接下來請黃婕維發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5660.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5663.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
好謝謝主席我們請先請劉部長請劉部長好部長早在進入今天這個安全指引的主題之前想要先請教這個中配的問題喔因為其實最近的這個花蓮的案例那我知道說現在我們內政部因為他們這個花蓮縣政府自己用溯源的方式那讓他 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5689.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5705.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
撤銷了那你們現在也移送監察院那我想問的是除了這樣子移送監察院之外有沒有其他的處理方式所以想要先請教部長你怎麼看國民黨說要修國籍法讓中配不用放棄中國籍就可以任我們台灣的公職呢甚至他們還提到說是不是用遷竊結束的方式就可以當作來放棄中國籍的一個證明 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5717.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5726.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
報告委員內政部主管的國籍法尤其是20條裡面寫得非常的清楚要擔任台灣尤其是中華民國的公職的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5727.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5753.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
他對台灣的中華民國負有國家忠誠的義務如果他擁有中華民國以外的國籍的話那這個忠誠義務可能大打折扣甚至對於他是對於我們敵對的國家來講會讓人覺得說不管忠誠有問題甚至是造成國安或者是滲透方面的問題我們是其其不以為可那有些網路上面的人會說那中華人民共和國的國籍 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5754.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5774.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
算是外國國籍嗎對的在112年的行政院秘書長韓的時候就有特別提到中國大陸人民不具有我國的國籍就不是屬於我國的國民所以內政部依照這個112年行政院秘書長韓在多次要求北北桃 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5778.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5783.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
花這幾個有這個所謂的這個村里長資格的總共五個其實都有發函多次請他們按照國籍法的方式要解職那這一次呢這個花蓮縣政府呢他的訴願裡面呢他也提到說叫我們另為釋法之處分 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5797.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5810.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
那我請我們的這個同仁下去了解之後無論怎麼樣如果這一位中配仍然回復他村長的資格的時候我們仍然會依法請他解除村長的職務 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5811.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5833.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
好 謝謝部長的說明其實部長說得已經非常非常清楚了國籍法裡面的精神就是說如果你持有外國國籍就是代表你效忠的是他國嘛那在台灣來說要效忠中華民國台灣當然就是要有我國的國籍並且不可以同時擁有他國的國籍更何況你服的是台灣的公職 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5834.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5851.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
對台灣當然要有效忠的義務認為這個精神是非常非常清楚的我也不希望說到時候立法院修出一個讓特定的國家的國民擁有特權在台灣可以擔任公職這樣的結果那所以我在這邊想要建議其實地質法76條裡面有提到說 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5854.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5878.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
如果縣市政府辦理的自治事項違背憲法法律或是基於法律授權的法規那我們中央的主管機關可以來撤銷變更或廢止其執行所以我希望的是如果到時候繼續用這樣的方式走下去我們內政部就用地制法76條的方式來處理讓它予以解職在這邊建議我們內政部直接可以這樣處理喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5879.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5887.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
是謝謝委員的指教我們會來研議辦理好謝謝部長那再來我們部長請留著那我們也請伯父 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5889.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5913.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
那再來提到這個安全指引這個小局書我認為你們現在用普發的方式是非常好的光是讓大家看到知道什麼是小局書有討論度讓全民就有更深層的意識我覺得這就是一個很大的進步那當然在這個過程當中也有很多民間的指教包括說有一些委員說印這個手冊是浪費錢然後還說印手冊比國軍加薪重要嗎甚至有 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5918.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5947.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
有人说是不是你们印这个只是让大家当成废纸我们伯父在这边可不可以再跟大家讲一下为什么印这个普发的手册这么重要甚至我们也不断的提醒说民间的声音是要更广泛的来发放是谢谢委员的指导我想安全指引的手册在全球来讲是一个趋势尤其是我们现在看到全球富二世灾难不管是地震海啸或是这个台风 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5948.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5955.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
這個天災的意外頻傳所以在這種情況下全球也是在推展這樣子的一個小冊子讓所有全民 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5956.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5982.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
在平常時間就知道如何避難那有所準備才有安全那在這種情況下呢更加的凸顯台灣在這個手冊上的重要性因為我們可以看到近期我們國家不管是南部的水災或者是花蓮的驗射服事件那這個都代表極端氣候下平常我們就應該要有這樣子避難的一個準備工作所以這個小冊子就是要提醒 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5983.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5991.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
全民能夠自己保障自己的安全知道如何的去避難我想這是一個非常好的方式好 謝謝伯父所以我在這邊想要請你們多宣導的是既然你們發了就要去發揮它的正面價值要不斷的去宣導說為什麼要用紙本為什麼要發放這個小冊子而不是讓這些網路上的假訊息這一些謠言甚至質疑的聲音越來越大這個非常非常重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
6012.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
6037.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
因為更有準備本來就是對國民是大家互相加強能力讓大家自己變強甚至是讓大家更有韌性的一個非常好的方式怎麼想都是正面的效果才對怎麼會有這一些莫名其妙的質疑而是全球當全世界所有國家幾乎所有國家都在努力的加強自己的防衛意識的時候偏偏我國有人在唱衰自己 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
6038.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
6053.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
我不希望這樣的事情繼續發生那所以呢這本小冊子裡面我想要比較要這邊要提醒的幾個事情喔第一個就是說這個裡面其實也有提到說這些假訊息到底要怎麼防護但是我認為提供的這些資訊還不夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
6055.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
6067.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
所以我在這邊要建議的就是說接下來啊不管像我們花蓮這個顏色湖發生事情的時候或是所有的天災人禍然後或者是未來遇到一些戰時的準備其實這些假訊息都會非常氾濫那他們都會透過特定的一些APP例如說抖音啊這種小紅書上面的這種氾濫的訊息更多尤其多尤其是他就是來自 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
6078.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
6087.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
境外敵對勢力的平台所以像這樣子的平台你們到底如果到時候不管災時還是戰時發生這些問題然後假訊息在這些平台氾濫的時候你們有什麼準備所以委員這個是我們平常在錯假訊息防範上來講或是認知作戰我們國防部在這方面有專制單位來負責 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
6100.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
6105.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
至於說委員的建議就是說未來的錯假訊息或是認知作戰是否納入到全民的安全執行手冊呢這都是納入到我們後續在製作新版的時候下一個版本的時候我們會收集很多意見像比如自小我們都會在這方面來去去的來求教所有 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
6119.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
6122.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
給我們所有做的好的建議謝謝伯父那最後兩個小問題請教我們內政部劉部長因為其實手冊裡面有提到說如果網路或是通訊中斷的時候呢我們可以用廣播來獲得資訊可是其實我收到非常多的民眾陳情說因為我們現在很多廣播是空屏導致說很容易被尤其中國很近他們的會干擾 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
6143.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
6162.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
所以很常聽到的是中國來的一些廣播的聲音所以像這個空瓶被干擾或者是被取代這樣的狀況是不是你們有一些研究以及預防才不會說明明更關鍵的時刻是透過廣播來接受資訊可是卻因為空瓶然後早就已經被中國的這個蓋瓶的方式早就蓋瓶過去了報告委員這個部分我們大概有意識到這樣的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
6167.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6190.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
所以我們才會說用這個發放紙本的方式讓大家知道說真正的頻道我們在這裡面都有寫是以這個警察廣播電台或者是我們國家的一個公用頻道為主然後才有正確的訊息尤其是如果手機離線的狀態之下所以其實提供正確的資訊管道非常非常重要不要到時候這些連我們的廣播都被干擾 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6191.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6201.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
好那以上這個當然我希望你們要不斷的推廣這本書讓大家知道保護自己的安全守護自己的國家守護自己的社區非常重要謝謝好謝謝黃街委員的質詢我們現在休息五分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6547.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6554.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
好我們現在繼續開始繼續尋找接下來請麥玉珍委員發言主席好有請國防部還有主機總署請國防部還有主機總署 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6576.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6591.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
副部長還有那個請教一下我們就是國防部這一次印了1100萬本的台灣全民安全指引總經費是6447萬其中印製的費用是4279萬是動資 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6602.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6629.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
第二预备金要资本的普发明年1月5日前发到每一户可是我们要先请教的第二预备金依法应该是急迫或不可意见的支出而这本手册多数内容就是把各部会多年的宣传资料拼在一起 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6630.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6647.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
還加上許多口號與宣示花了6000多萬卻不見得能在危急的時間用上場這個才是我們重點質疑的所以這個全民安全指引補發計畫是不是在10月23日已經通過行政院核定 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6653.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6680.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
但是現在呢你都知道事先規劃的可預見的政策為什麼還要用動用不可預見的急迫需要的第二預備金這個是我們質疑的報委員我想我們事實上在前面在做的時候發五千本的時候呢那個時候我們發現到這個發完以後事實上很多的像 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6682.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6698.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
風災 艷澀湖事件都發生了那我們就感覺到說在這個急迫性上來講尤其是我們可以看到這一次花蓮事件如果說我們有這個全民安全手冊的話那事實上來講在平時多做準備比如說他知道如何去疏散 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6698.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6719.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
或避難或者是聽廣播或者是說他能夠接受到這樣子的一個資訊的話我想這都是我們在先前印5000本以後我們發現到不足的地方所以我們用急迫性在年度預算不可以支應的情況下依照預算法第70條我們來申請第二預備金來支應 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6722.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6733.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
急迫性很有用是這樣子嗎所以你們很好用不用監督很好用對是的所以呢這一次就是總費用明明超過6千萬卻拆分成3塊印製 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6740.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6746.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
4000多萬印製的4000多萬地方的作業的話就1900多萬還有就是郵寄就是180多萬所以剛好每一塊很好用所以呢就落在5000萬被查的門檻下所以請教這樣子的分折是不是刻意 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6765.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6792.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
規避就是我們的就是立法院的監督所以我們才要想要請教的部分因為依規定第二一杯精動之超過五千萬因送立院被查這樣的切割處理真的符合監督精神嗎還是從國庫直接到黨庫就可以你們隨便用 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6793.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6797.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
我們想要了解的完全不是您所講的這樣子說什麼黨我們還在預算法第70條來編列預算對啊你們編列預算就是在五千萬以下讓我們沒辦法去查因為這個政策從9月16號就公佈了 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6814.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6816.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
11月開始發送 明年1月5日要發完整個時程明確的規定緊迫性在哪裡不可意見在哪裡這筆經費為什麼不能提早在年度預算編列呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6833.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6851.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
包委員您指導非常好可是我要跟您報告這個事實上來講我們可以看到映射服事件是一個很嚴重的事件對全國都造成很大的震撼那我們之所以有急迫性為什麼要分這個區塊在這麼短時間就是希望這本手冊盡早到我們全民的手上 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6852.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6854.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
剛才你說因為這件事情這本手冊很有用所以我看到這本手冊就變成宣傳手冊不像是生存指南整個手冊你看在宣傳就是拼湊在一起的沒有明確的章節也沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6874.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6880.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
SOP也沒有深入講解防災緊急應變都是講得很籠統更多偏扶在就是精神還有理念請教這樣子的內容實際上的指南意義在危機來臨的時候民眾翻開手冊真的知道怎麼做嗎報告委員我跟您報告這個是這一頁最緊急的在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6900.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6906.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
報告委員我要跟您報告這裡面手冊先是一個指引的大綱那所有的內容我們都用QR Code因為它的內容太大太廣所以少QR Code比如說我剛剛舉例來講避難設施全國的避難設施非常的多那我不可能一列在這裡面好所以你說這樣子沒有一列在裡面內容設計跟得蠻荒謬的 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6927.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6928.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
緊急通報電話在夜內誰要去翻再來就是庇護的所查的方式就是設計就給誰看的還有誰在 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6940.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6953.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
炸彈掉下來的時候還慢慢翻嗎沒有目錄啊 整本沒有目錄更誇張的你說要下載下載呢我們還要緊急的怎麼去下載下載裡面還要找 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6956.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6959.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
地圖在哪裡不是下載就馬上看到了還要下載還要寫很多像我們長輩你叫他說下載他都不會了還要下載很困難還有沒有緊急看到的避難的地圖手冊裡面還有 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6973.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6974.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
請我們的民眾呢要寫下三個跟家人約定緊急會合的地點在手冊裡面寫還要想請問你你平常跟你的家人聯絡 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6988.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6992.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
都寫在手冊裡面嗎現在科技化了對不對所以呢所以這個就是應酬的嘛我們看到手冊裡面就是防災用的不是消耗預算用的我們沒有看到的效果啦但是你說的效果我們就是沒有看到啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
7007.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
7023.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
平常就要準備所以這個是為什麼說做一個平常的指引如果說沒有一個正確的概念如何在災變來臨的時候去做正確的防範另外我們所謂的不管緊急設施也好緊急聯絡也好都是一種方式為所做的任何的建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
7024.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
7033.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
我認為都可以作為我們日後參考但是這本手冊的利益就是希望全民安全全民能夠有準備才安全我想這是我們今天在急迫性上來講也是結合了全球的這種複合式災難發生必須要做的事情我想這是一個很好的一個全民的一個大家認識一個防災的概念方式安全在哪裡要貼在這裡安全貼在這裡安全貼在這裡你每天拿這一本出門 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
7052.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
7056.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
報告委員 這個就是平常要教育平常要教育平常教育這本手冊教育你們也說長輩沒辦法下載平常教育但是誰拿這本剛才我們委員說自大一點自大一點 拿一個包包很大的放下去給他拿出來所以再說你們的多元版本還有離線的工具裡面你們說怕長輩不會上網 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
7082.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
7106.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
沒有比這本手冊更有用的東西嗎還有我們全國現在新住民還有外籍人士在台灣超過百萬人但是為什麼裡面只有印尼版沒有其他版本這兩百萬人的生命不重要嗎什麼時候上線還有我們在手冊裡面在看到的就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
7107.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
7123.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
兒少的防護第24頁裡面家長和孩子討論戰爭結果完全叫家長怎麼樣保護孩子都沒有只講的是戰爭時發生的怎麼樣逃跑也沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
7124.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
7126.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
怎麼避難的 也沒有 怎麼備藥 結果呢整個章程裡面都是討論侵落 還有呢到底防疫交易怎麼樣只有意識形態請問一下這段的內容的水省的審查人員有沒有消防或者醫療緊急的急救的或者是資訊供電水電的專業來去審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
7152.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
7154.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
還有說官員你們就是走個形式就好不是不是不是如果有的話你們就是要把這些的名單誰的意見誰審的誰簽核的誰負責的內容給我們報告這個絕對不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
7168.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
7171.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
今天國安部單獨做出來的而是經過專家學者跨部會的大家長時間的討論做出來的但是我們沒有看到緊迫性還有需求性沒有達到我們真的想要的社會對我們指教我們也聽到了如果說有不足的地方我們會在未來如果大家的需求是這麼的強烈就跟委員所講的那麼強烈那我們希望下一個版本馬上就出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
7193.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
7198.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
因為這個的確是一個非常好的如果私商就是我們國防部這麼說在說因為時間有限我再強調我們支持防災備戰但是我們反對的是花錢卻用不上派不上用場還有沒有花錢花在刀口上這本花了六千多萬台灣全民安全指引內容就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
7222.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
7225.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
就是拼湊還有資訊殘缺還有混亂的就是還有混雜的一些什麼政治口號防空避難地點要民眾自己花自己看重點電話藏在裡面要自己寫集合地點 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
7242.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
7247.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
這樣到底是哪一年的做法 更離譜的是因為經費裡面還要動用第二一倍金 我們質疑就是拆帳就是沒有讓我們去查 就非常不合理所以我有幾點要求 政府要做提升全民防衛任性 但任性不是靠這本書而已而是人民在危難時刻 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
7270.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
7286.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
避難的時候能行動資訊要夠還有方向要明確所以現在這本我們沒有看到所以我們希望剛才我們的副部長說你們要重新再用所以我再要求兩個三個手冊裡面要 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
7290.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
7304.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
編列 預算 動資的審查制度 第一個第二個 手冊的存在必要性與修正的措施第三 未來所有全民防衛的交易的專業審核標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
7306.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
7310.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
於公開程序人民需要的是可以救命的資訊而不是浪費六千萬的政治文宣請國防部一必在就是一週內向我們的國會還有我們的人民提出最負責最有效的手冊可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
7327.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
7346.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
謝謝委員的指導我想這個手冊事實上它就是非常有用絕對沒有說浪費公堂也絕對會發在刀口上我希望大家能夠重視這個手冊就跟委員重視拿這本手冊再來發經驗委員也是重視所以才可以跟我們這麼多經驗告訴我們真的我們看到真的是傻眼謝謝 希望你在一周內提出是 謝謝委員謝謝麥玉珍委員的發言接下來請牛許廷文發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
7361.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
7368.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
謝主席內政部還有國防部有請請內政部部長還有國防部伯父部長先請國防部啦因為先問手冊內容伯父這個午安喔這個我想請教一下這個最新的普發版本跟我手上這本這本是之前送到我們辦公室的應該算舊的舊的版本嘛差異在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
7389.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
7402.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
這驗色壺的事件加了一個驗色壺還有加了總統的簽名這是新版的問你新舊的差異除了驗色壺之外就是加了總統簽名就這樣嗎我們還有那個我請我們那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
7408.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
7434.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
包委員普發版跟9月16號初步公佈的這版本最大差異有幾個地方首先是在序言的地方增加總統的簽名第二個部分是內容增加了眼色湖的這個可能異流或潰壩的部分的一個指引那其次的話在二三個QR code裡面呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
7434.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
7456.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
我們把這QR Code的這個盡量變成短版的QR Code便於民眾查詢好 謝謝這個本席先給這個國防部一個建議啦因為稍早張志倫我也有提你們這個報告裡面寫的東西聽我覺得有點噁心啦說淺顯易懂的方式編寫視覺吸睛的設計風格深獲各界正面肯定或迴響 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
7457.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
7472.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
希望索取或授權印製等等所以要補發我跟你講這些東西其實大可不必為什麼還有總統的簽名我當然不是說總統簽名不好但我請教一下國防部部長你們講副部長你們之前參佐了世界各國的版本他們都有總統簽名嗎恐怕不見得吧我這個我沒有太注意不過因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
7476.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
7481.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
總統也非常重視這件事情這個也是全國的事情我想這個總統來簽名我想對於我們國防部來講也是一種鼓舞也是肯定我們這份手冊從你的國防部的本位來講它是一種鼓舞對我們工作同仁來講是一個鼓舞對這是從你工作同仁的角度但你想想看從社會大眾的角度總統是選舉產生這幾年台灣的政治不是特別安定彼此之間或有仇視的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
7503.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
7514.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
那麼當你加了簽名然後加上馬上就要普發的時候他當然就會被政治化解讀嘛我們總統是三軍統帥我們所有國防排批書以後QDR全部都是總統簽名沒關係你如果今天要很堅持我也沒有打算說服你但我要跟你討論一下這件事情不管是你的國防業務裡面提的民防等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
7527.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7550.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
其實我們都希望政策可以順利的來推動謝謝委員指導請大家政黨不一樣謝謝委員指導但就是因為政黨不一樣所以我要提醒你要聽一聽不同的聲音是當然當然我們的社會因為政治氛圍不太好這都是現實所以越多政治相關的駙馬在裡面的時候他反而會對你的宣傳穩定等等向我造成負面影響謝謝委員指教這我想你應該只可以理解這樣建議的初衷啦對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7551.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7563.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
我們都不要用政治的角度來談這件事情不會 絕對不會用政治角度因為你剛好做了這樣的事然後剛好又加碼普發那當然就會或多或少一些狀況我本身就是要善盡在黨的角色我們要做一些提醒的角色希望可以做一些處理那這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7565.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7585.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
有一些東西因為你們在談這樣子的一個手冊的認定的時候你們講的參酌了很多國家的判斷那當然這年頭因應各式各樣的地緣風險的一個上升大家就會談說假訊息跟資訊試讀的裡面是很重要的這點本席百分之百贊成但是裡面的一些內容上本席是認為有或有精進之處 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7586.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7603.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
比如說我們拿瑞典的這個一樣他們的國防安全手冊來談的話他們去談假訊息的試讀的時候其實是非常明顯的是寫得很清楚的也就是說在核實訊息的時候應該避免依賴單一社群平台作為資訊來源應該要有多方查證的這樣的義務那相對來講我們在談資訊的時候卻寫說如果焦慮的話就不要看太多新聞跟網路資訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7609.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7616.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
我覺得這個內容上或有可以精進之處這副部長你有沒有收到一些相關這樣子的一些我們當然有各方的聲音我們都聽到了我想這個手冊之所以會有這麼多聲音就是大家對它期待希望它更好那我覺得這次就是我們在製作這個手冊的初衷我們希望這個手冊能夠讓大家接受能夠讓大家平常的時候都有準備我想這是最重要的概念這個本席並不反對啊本來就是這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7634.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7659.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
不管是防災或國防的意識的普及這是大家都會贊成的這樣一個價值所以本期才要善盡提醒有關訊息的部分其實它是越客觀然後接受性越低越沒有針對性越沒有政治駙馬它其實效果就會好因為不管是誰執政不管是什麼樣的狀況大家接到訊息都是一樣的所以它才具備有客觀然後大家會願意互相相信互相信賴瑞典的這個手冊裡面也有講啊你不只是要看這本手冊的內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7660.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7686.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
你也要跟你身邊的人建立強而有力的社群連結嘛守望相助這樣子的一個概念這觀念都正確但是台灣現在最大的問題就是因為政治大家彼此之間對立太嚴重所以大家要面對這個事情來做合理的處理本席的建議就是在寫這些相關的內容的時候政治的色彩越淡越好他視頻報導他很無聊都沒有關係因為這樣反而比較好的穿透效果這是本席給國防部的建議報告員我可以容我講一句話可以沒問題是 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7689.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7698.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
災變這個事情是沒有政黨的對沒錯嘛災變這個事情是我們全民大家都要能夠祈求自己家庭平安我想在這種色彩上來講我們國防部本來就是聰明我們做這個手冊你看我們去救災的時候我們也沒有分政黨啊當然我們當時第一時間有出動所以這個手冊希望大家是一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7711.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7734.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
平常心來看一個災難的防災的一個應變希望全民都安全我們花了五分多鐘的時間討論就是因為遇到了這樣的事嘛我們一起來解決這本期的建議那希望國防部可以採納一下好最後一點點時間我要請教內政部因為同樣啊我們談一下防災的部分你也沒有談我其實之前我印象中我在內政委員會我就有質詢過相關的題目啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7736.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7757.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
你剛剛稍早工作報告的時候我還特別去載APP看了防空避難空間我們現在遇到這個狀況馬上就有防空避難的需求但是細節這本期還是要善盡提醒的責任本期舉個例子過去在龜山的租屋處我以前做議員的時候租的房子它的地下室每一棟大樓的地下室都是你理所當然的防災避難空間 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7758.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7781.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
理論上是對不對但我那個大樓地下是什麼呢是那個立體停車塔就他不是人他是沒有人的通道的他就是一個立體停車塔然後他用操作車子升上去降下來那個防空避難處聲稱可以容納300多人那我就常常想如果真的我如果還住在這個地方真的遇到空襲警報我們是當然要一起進去還有人幫我們操作幫我們送下去嗎好像不太對 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7782.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7801.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
所以本期在講你在做了很多的通路跟渠道跟宣傳這都很好但是詳細的盤點我還是要請內政部請警政系統這邊要做一下把控啦也就是說哪一些是真正人流可以順利出入的這樣子的一個防空避難處所哪一些狀況只是當初可能是為了要趕快交作業不見得精細的地方要趕快讓它完整 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7803.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7824.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
這樣子你公布的不管是在手冊上的APP上面的等等到時候真的發生災變的時候它才是一個可以去的地方是 謝謝委員我們會來檢討改進那理論上在地方政府的警政跟消防系統他們都要定時去看一下狀況沒錯 沒錯 沒錯那如果需要修正的話會根據我們的參數來做修正對啊 偶爾會有一些這樣子的特例那你也不要太苛責但是稍微要求一下我們會來檢討改進做一下盤點才能夠把 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7826.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7834.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
不管從內容上也好或者是實質上的細節也好把這政策內容做好我想這就是不分藍綠大家都期待的事好不好好謝謝兩位辛苦了謝謝林宏旭庭委員的發言接下來我們請李博義委員發言謝謝我有請國防部博副博副部長請國防部副部長劉部長先稍等 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7857.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7880.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
我也好部長我先感謝昭緯今天安排這個小局書的檢討報告當危機來臨時其實讀了第一頁其實真的所有的問題都沒想過當沒有網路的時候當停電的時候當你們家要怎麼樣來 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7884.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7911.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
面對這個問題的時候我想現在很多家庭都沒有想過那我想國防部做了這個手冊我想要問國防部的一個問題一個問題就好了請問我們對解放軍對中華人民共和國解放軍的認識有多少解放軍裡面有沒有針對這個網路攻擊部門的這個解放軍當然有當然有對不對好 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7914.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7940.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
我講一些歐洲的狀況給國防部參考歐洲各國對俄羅斯的這個認知作戰其實態度越來越一致那也就是為什麼現在歐洲各國對於台灣會有這麼多關注的原因之一大家說俄羅斯無二戰爭等等其實最重要的是他們也感同身受那最感同身受的是哪幾個國家我給你參考一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7943.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7968.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
愛沙尼亞拉脫維亞立陶宛波蘭這幾個國家其實是受害最深那你認為台灣台灣面對這個中國還有我剛講的這幾個國家面對俄羅斯哪一個受害會比較深哪一個感受會比較深抱怨你剛好問到我我這幾個國家都訪問過是那這幾個國家之所以會請我去訪問的原因是因為他們邀請你去訪問對 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7970.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7974.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
特別是以中華民國國防部部長的身份去訪問我在立陶宛跟NATO的軍官有500個我做演講對NATO是整個NATO沒有就是他的會議就是他的那個治安會另外一個最近你也可以看到在某個國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7987.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
8003.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
我也在智庫裡面對所有的智庫哪一個國家你可以講出來嗎愛沙尼亞你看那個智庫裡面所有的就是被俄羅斯的假訊息被俄羅斯的網軍攻擊最嚴重的一個國家我演講的內容其實是結合了這個區域的假訊息你演講的重點是什麼我演講的重點是今天的這個地緣政治不分在這個俄羅斯的這種前緣像波羅地亞三個國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
8018.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
8024.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
台灣也是面對了中國大陸所以他們在討論的時候他們有發現到今天立陶宛這些國家或是波蘭 芬蘭這些國家他們所面對的問題跟我們面對是一樣的他的在資安上的共通性事實上來講也有相同的所以在這個區塊上來講事實上來講為什麼現在歐洲他很多的團體到我們這邊來我們很多團體去那個地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
8042.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
8061.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
那其實原因就是因為俄羅斯和中國大陸的威脅是跟地緣政治是齊息相關所以這一點我覺得是我們事實上必須要認真去看我們的未來其實我們去走了一趟歐洲之後我們也發現其實就算不是面對第一線的國家像瑞士 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
8062.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
8088.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
他們也對這個訊息他們也對這個他們也開始考慮到這些開始非常重視那所以包含很多歐洲的國家都希望幾乎所有都是面對這個問題好 重點來了他們是面對一個俄羅斯我們現在好現在日本的這個狀況出來了至少我們現在有日本跟我們一起原本我們是台灣獨自面對這個請問一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
8089.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
8101.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
副部長這本夠嗎你剛剛講到這些是不是第一頁我們建議對於這些認知作戰對於剛剛劉部長有講到這個長輩們的這些資訊落差數位落差等等的我們要先教導他們是 報告委員您所講的這些事情事實上來講一本冊子大家期待這麼高有這麼多意見就代表這個冊子非常重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
8116.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
8143.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
那至於說是要戰爭了嗎不是啊我現在要這樣講歐洲要戰爭嗎沒有啊可是但是要不要注意要注意歐洲他本身來講他的很多的像我舉例來講很多玻利海國家他每天都知道他告訴我們說其實敵人就在家門口了對所以他在任何的作戰上面來講一本小冊子所代表的是提醒民眾要能夠注意自己的安全這是第一個對 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
8144.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
8152.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
第二個要能夠解決自己周邊人的安全這是第二個好 副部長我再請問你一個問題有人在癥結我已經聽到兩個國民黨委員這樣講了為什麼總統簽名要討論總統防衛全台灣總統會全台灣提醒台灣人民要注意這些問題為什麼要討論什麼政治色彩這沒有政治色彩因為總統是三軍統帥他基本上來講我們國防部任何一個都是總統簽名 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
8174.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
8186.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
那我们基本上来讲这是全社会防卫任性那总统更应该要签名因为是全社会防卫任性不是只有说国防部好谢谢副部长那我请刘部长谢谢部长我只有一个问题针对有国民党的委员说大陆不是外国请问刘部长的看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
8198.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
8223.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
大陸不是外國就非常訝異因為我們拿的中華民國的不管是身份證或者是護照或者是其他的跟官方單位有關的都沒有包含中華人民共和國應該要反問國民黨的委員大陸不是外國請問中華民國是外國嗎那如果大陸不是外國中華人民共和國跟中華民國怎麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
8224.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
8250.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
如果大陸地區不叫外國的話那等於是變相的承認台灣是中國的一部分因為現在全世界都認知到中國是指中華人民共和國我想其實為了選舉那有國民黨的委員包含民眾黨的委員可能會做出這個提案其實他們只是想要拿到這些選票但是他們忘了最重要的忘了中華民國忘了 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
8251.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
8273.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
大陸是我們的敵對勢力忘了大陸一天到晚都想要整病吞我們是我們的國家現在就是中華民國所以我們無論怎麼樣要保全中華民國的最大利益包括主權主權不能讓渡也不能被解釋為是中國的一部分所以在這邊我要請部長對於國際法這一段我們要堅決捍衛是好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
8277.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
8288.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
好謝謝李博弈委員的發言那跟委員會報告後待會我們吳祺銘委員諮詢詢答完之後我們來處理臨時提案那現在我們請吳祺銘委員發言好 下一位一位同仁請我們國防部副部長請國防部副部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
8309.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
8321.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
我也好 副部長好 是今天看大家都在整理全民國防的手冊就是動用第二億北京那本期是沒有什麼意見那因為我們是 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
8322.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
8347.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
讓我們全民大家都了解 任何災害都是要動用的單位這是對我們的國防的先導 都是一個非常好因為成本也不高一本做起來3.8 就是包含運送也不到6塊其實本席這邊是看了一下這一本其實我們現在全民都不知道怎樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
8348.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
8376.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
都是在怎樣來防詐騙因為我們詐騙是已經過成了整個全民大家的恐慌那其實要做這個應該是結合各單位來做思考因為詐騙順便要怎樣來預防這個反詐騙包含現在的詐騙手法越來越歡心讓我們全民大家都知道說有這個手冊 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
8377.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
8405.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
有空他也會翻來看啊所以這一點就是我們國防部真的要去研究要去改善不然你整個這個多多每一都很好啊但是還有不足的就是我們要再去檢討的地方副部長這個謝謝委員指教了我想大家對這本手冊這麼關心很多意見加進來那我想這些都是都是在我們後續在新版本的時候做一個調節和調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
8407.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
8436.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
可見全民對這個期待是很高的那我必須要強調今天我們花不管是花多少錢其實生命是無價的所以你今天花這個錢重點是什麼重點是保護人民的生命的財產的安全我想這個是無價的我們如果一直用這樣子的一個方式說要花多少錢浪費工廠倒不如說如果我們從中理念我們的人民可以看到說 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
8437.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
8444.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
國家在做這個事情的時候能夠確保我自己安全那我想這都是值得那另外一個我們要強調我們今天國軍救災在任何的區域裡面我們也希望他知道國軍要去救災的時候他怎麼先去配合國軍的所有的做救災的行動我想這都是我們今天全民的防衛任性是非常重要的一環這一點呢我必須要向委員報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
8462.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
8468.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
任何的意見我們都虛心接受在未來來講我們希望這個全民的這樣手冊能夠喚起大家對這樣危機意識的這樣重視我想就達到我們的目的了謝謝韋爺好 謝謝我們副部長因為這讓我們全民大家都來知道這是本行 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
8481.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
8495.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
我剛才都講我本來我也是很支持的只是說我們裡面還有不足的地方是未來還是要我們會改進是加強把它改進是好不好是謝委員好謝謝副部長是請我們內政部部長好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
8501.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
8530.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
法務委員你好 博長你好因為上禮拜我們的考察因為本席在這裡也要再次感謝因為我們的社會住宅一些成效大家都可以看得到在新北市都已經突破了兩萬戶那在土城我們那天去看了有一千兩百戶那個頂補安基那個蓋起來的整個環境也都大大改善 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
8530.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
8552.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
早期大家都想說社會主宰基地 應用到他們的房價 應用到他們的地段 應用到他們的生活品質但是現在所有的民眾接受了 完全的改觀所以在我們人行道不足的地方 我在這裡建議一下因為校園 我們還有去看那些學校 樂麗國小 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
8554.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
8572.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
他校園的人行道小朋友行走的安全在這部分 次長也有引諾我也拜託部長在這部分 在經費部分人行道安全 尤其是學校周遭我們都會優先來處理那希望學校可以配合 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
8573.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8590.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
好好的部分都是優先處理因為學童的安全很重要小朋友出入 都是要有很好的人行道很平的人行道在這個部分 本省也拜託補充好不好好 感謝委員的支持好 感謝就這樣 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8597.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8624.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
謝謝吳清明委員的質詢接下來我們處理臨時提案共議案請宣讀為扶持我國農業發展政府依據憲法第143條第4項國家對於土地之分配與整理應以扶植自耕農及自行使用土地人為原則之基本國策於37年起辦理工地放齡將公有土地放齡給成豬農民該政策不僅提高我國農民收入更奠定台灣經濟發展的基礎 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8625.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8646.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
然應90年間桃枝颱風災害以及國土保育問題行政院於96年9月6日陳水扁總統任期時宣布停止工地放嶺經歷17年後在本席及朝野委員不斷呼籲下賴清德總統終於在114年11月21日宣布重啟工地放嶺為彌補17年來農民的苦苦等待 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8647.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8674.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
要求內政部於三個月內邀集相關部會地方政府進行盤點及研議並考量台東縣境內工地放領之特殊性重塑重寬推動工地放領政策守護台東農民權益提案人委員黃建斌等六人宣讀完畢各位官員臨時提案各位有沒有意見沒有意見我們照案通過接下來請陳培宇委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8684.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8686.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
謝謝主席那有請內政部部長謝謝請內政部劉部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8692.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8719.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
陳委員好部長好我想要跟部長報告我這個手冊其實是在我家的信箱拿到的所以我看到根據這個今天的說明說我們已經透過加護系統開始發放了對不對對好那我先幫我的社區好朋友問因為我們其實有還蠻多朋友就住在附近可是不知道是因為林里長發送的速度不一樣還是說發生了什麼事情在我們那個附近有人有拿到有人沒拿到那後續我們如何協助民眾都可以全面的拿到這個手冊 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8720.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8741.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
報告委員現在是這樣子印製的部分是由國防部來負責然後他會發送到地方政府那地方政府我們自己內政部已經邀集所有的地方政府來那希望透過民政系統也就是說村里幹事來幫忙發放那現在就是按照每個區域來處理那其實我們真正開始發放是11月 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8743.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8749.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
20號左右那就是希望在明年1月5號之前全部完成發放那為什麼我要在這個時間發放其實大家也都非常清楚這個時候可能剛好是訊期中間我們希望在訊期前能夠趕快發放結束大家都知道台灣如果訊期來的時候不管是水災天災或者是地震等等這些基本的訊息如果從這樣子一個紙本裡面得到的話會很快可以知道怎麼處理比較好 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8771.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8789.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
所以我其实也想要公开呼吁大家有拿到的我都觉得每一个人要在那个背包里面就先放了这一本我觉得这个非常重要因为这里面有提醒我们其实可以开始准备背包啊什么的对不对好然后在最后一页把它剪下来也可以对对对我们都已经开始研究怎么用了这样因为这确实非常的重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8789.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8806.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
所以我要說我要給予內政部跟國防部還有相關跨部會不管是從內容編轉到印製到發放我們也會因此動用到非常多第一線的工作人員我想要在這邊公開感謝他們大家一起幫忙那再來我也想要問一下部長有關於這個在野黨委員說要修國籍法這件事情然後甚至不同在野黨的總召他們還說要請部長其實要從兩岸人民關係條例來看可是我自己的看法是認為我們應該一視同仁什麼意思呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8819.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8844.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
只要你原來的國籍不是中華民國國籍你是外國國籍進到台灣來不管是透過婚配系統進來然後你有意願從政或是你有意願擔任公職我們就回到國籍法來看相關規定我個人認為這樣才是合乎法理制的我想要問一下部長你這邊今天早上所收到各式各樣對您的質疑或是對這個法律條文適用的質疑你怎麼看 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8845.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8859.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
可能我自己個人的並不是說的很清楚但是在我們內政部所主管的這個國籍法20條裡面的每一個字都非常的清楚就是如果他已經擔任公職在一年內的話都要放棄中華民國以外的外國國籍 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8860.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8875.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
沒錯那我們根據行政院112年告訴我們說中華人民共和國的國籍其實就是外國國籍那所以內政部根據這樣的指示非常清楚跟兩岸人民關係條例或者甚至無限上綱到憲法的話其實我覺得大可不必 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8876.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8896.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
這裡面呢第一個我們並沒有藍綠之分大家都知道如果你要修國籍法的話呢只為了陸配來修國籍法但是這個國籍法是針對中華民國以外的任何國國籍不管是日本美國甚至是像蘇聯或對不對俄羅斯或是其他的國家你本來就是要有效忠的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8897.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8906.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
我們對國家效忠只有一個不會只有兩個那如果你針對陸配的部分的話反而會更落入說是屬於政黨之間對於政治上面的解讀不同我覺得希望不要從這個角度來解讀更何況我們的公務員他們都依法行政這個部分包括我們在前一年 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8917.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8927.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
處理這個南投縣的議員叫石雪燕她當時也按照我們台灣的這個行政的這個訴訟或者是訴願的在打這個官司我們也都尊重只不過她當時訴願的結果是被打回對不對被駁回的不太一樣那所以呢我覺得說特別不要針對陸配呢有這種歧視性的對待我們沒有歧視性的對待我們只是認為說中華民國跟中華人民共和國是分屬於兩個不同的國籍 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8946.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8962.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
而且台灣的中華民國的主權呢完全不可以在這個地方做任何的讓渡那我個人想要再補充一個比較簡單可能一般人民會更聽得懂的如果我們開了這個特別的大門而且是只針對單一國家而且這單一國家是中國而且 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8963.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8984.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
每天對著台灣叫囂不管是飛彈 飛機甚至破壞相關各式各樣的海欄設備讓國人處於這種不安的焦慮的狀況下我認為這樣的修法是在降低中國對台灣滲透統戰的成本而這樣的修法竟然是領著中華民國納稅人薪水的在野黨立法委員提出我認為更加的荒謬 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8984.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8989.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
所以我非常支持部長剛說的非常的清楚同時我也想要補充也想請部長幫我確認我們除了對待中國是這樣其實對待其他的外國國家我們一樣一視同仁用一樣的規定對嗎沒有錯其實我們有一些包括曾經擔任過立法委員譬如說我們的蕭美琴副總統她也是根據這樣子在一年內放棄她的其他國的國籍 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
9010.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
9038.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
那還有更早以前有一位立法委員叫李慶安他也是因為美國國籍不管是因為立法院做的決議等等這些我們都是按照這樣的程序來辦理所以其實我們對於中華民國以外的外國國籍並沒有特別的歧視說只歧視中華人民共和國只要是外國國籍你要到台灣來而且你是擔任公職你要對我們的憲法或是對我們的國籍做宣誓效忠的時候你不可能有兩個國籍一起效忠 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
9039.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
9052.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
對沒錯好謝謝部長我想我說的非常的清楚我要公開呼籲希望在野黨就此停住不要提出這個荒謬的修法好謝謝謝謝陳培宇委員的發言接下來請鄭天才委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
9072.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
9101.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
主席有請部長還有國防部副部長好這個今天談這個台灣全民安全指引大家會有一些這個考量就需要就是因為我們雖然你們的報告都寫得很清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
9103.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
9122.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
這主要就是緊急動用第二一倍金行政院的第二一倍金非常緊急的動用第二一倍金這個國防部而且是國防部來印製所以4279萬元然後這個內政部花了2171萬元總共 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
9134.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
9156.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
6450萬元所以大家才會是不是要打仗了就會有這樣的疑慮而且是國防部緊急編印所以這個部分這個印了就印了但是很重要的既然隨時要打仗隨時要打仗這是事實 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
9162.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
9190.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
這裡面防空避難設施這個誰的業務 防空避難設施是內政部還是國防部那個我們的準備工作是放在警政跟消防看天災或者是人禍的部分那現在防空避難設施的這個安排到底有沒有很周全你講的安排是什麼意思是不是每個村裡都有 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
9192.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
9221.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
是不是每個村裡都有 我是不是請警政跟消防跟您回應一下好 請說好 委員跟委員報告一下所有的防空避難的一個設施它可以分成兩個單位第一個是監管機關跟警察機關沒有 我只是問你是不是每個村裡都有基本上一定是每一個村裡應該都有完全錯誤我們看這個我們就擠瑞穗香就好了我就從透過你的指引 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
9222.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
9249.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
透過你的指引去查了以瑞穗鄉來講就這幾個啊就這幾個主要是在這個四七啦有那個地下室的啦對嘛那我們沒有地下室的村裡怎麼辦呢對不對那些防空避難設施以前的防空洞要不要重啟啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
9251.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
9276.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
對不對 要不要重啟 好不好所以這個我希望你們重啟嘛防空洞啊 不然我們沒有地下室的那個村裡怎麼辦呢基本上是就近了那剛剛委員說提的防空以前的防空洞的部分我們再來研議 好不好那就請那個國防部副部長也請回座那個我們劉部長我們談另外一個議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
9284.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
9311.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
這剛剛也做了決議國有財長法第46條這個法例一直沒有修正也沒有廢除國有耕地得提供為放租放領之用然後由內政部會商財政部擬定報請行政院核定之包括第二項也是一樣這個國有耕地放領實施辦法也一直都沒有廢止 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
9313.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
9341.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
也都一直有效的一个办法这里面规定的很清楚国有耕地放领对象为中华民国65年9月24日以前已承租该国有耕地自本办法发布时仍继续承租使用之农民依法换曰承租使用之农民或由其继承人 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
9342.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
9368.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
繼承成豬使用之農民事實上過去內政部在民國九十幾年的時候的內政部一再的跟行政院要求必須依法行政要繼續辦理但是你看當時的行政院這個當時的行政院並沒有這樣做最主要就是說在 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
9369.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
9399.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
民國96年的時候民國96年的時候行政院停止違法停止辦理這個工地放年這是整個原由是這樣所以絕對應該要依法行政而且是要符合憲法的相關的這些規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
9400.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
9429.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
然後呢這是土地法第25條我們就想地方政府的現有土地或私有土地直轄市或縣市政府對於其所管公有土地非經該管區內民意機關同意並經行政院核准這個程序這是地方自治最基本的原則公有現有的土地 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
9431.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
9446.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
現有的土地或是直轄市有的土地他經過民意機關同意報給你內政部內政部應該要趕快報行政院來核准我們看這個台東台東縣政府在今年的11月11號 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
9460.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
9486.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
提出了這個台東市新年段79地號無比非公有的現有土地現有非公用耕地現有非公用耕地11月11號報行報行政院當然是先交給內政部內政部什麼時候可以送行政院來核准部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
9489.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
9504.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
報告委員這個是屬於個案的部分我再回去查查一下但是也跟委員報告委員非常清楚這個所謂工地放領那目前我們就是工地放領原來有的這個行政辦法我們沒有更改 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
9505.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
9515.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
所以才會有65年以前的原則或者是跟養殖用地相關那中間有停辦三次都是因為天災1999年921地震2004年桃枝颱風2008年是莫拉克颱風 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
9522.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
9541.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
所以國有耕地裡面如果現在是山坡地跟國土保安有關係的話大概就不會在這一次的工地放你的範圍那剛剛我在回應其他委員關心的時候是以國有平地耕地以及養殖用地為主部長你提到了96年之所以這個停辦停止辦理當初啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
9545.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
9573.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
是依這個國土富裕策略方案及行政計畫它是一個行政規則這第一個 第二個當初的考量我們正在制定國土富裕條例草案但是這個草案而言而且這個草案後來就決定不定了把這個國土富裕的這些規定全部一列到國土計畫法 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
9575.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9604.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
都移类到国土计划法了所以现行的法例规定人民不能取得私有的土地只有两个法例一个是土地法14条另外一个法例是另外一个法例是这个水利法83条寻常洪水位的土地才可以不得私有所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9605.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9634.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
部長我們要依法行政只要是符合國有財產法以及相關的這些法律尤其是憲法的規定所以我要請部長趕快把這個這是現有的工地現有的耕地所以請部長趕快這個函報給行政院來核准可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9635.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9661.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
報告委員我們現在已經會要求包括台東縣政府在內不一樣這是縣你剛講的我有聽了那個你答覆那個黃昭偉的質詢我有聽了你講你能管的是國有的國有的耕地你才要按照那個程序屬於縣有地方所有的部分你就要按照地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9662.252 |
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9691.265 |
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只要只有土地法25條啊只有土地法25條你就依土地法25條來處理好不好土地法25條我剛跟委員講過這個個案的部分我們要研議後再辦理好嗎就依法辦理好謝謝好謝謝鄭天才委員的發言接下來我們請羅美玲委員發言 |
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9698.291 |
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9703.401 |
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謝謝主席有請國防部副部長請國防部副部長羅雲好 |
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9708.172 |
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9734.945 |
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副部長好首先本席要肯定國防部跟相關的部會合作製作了這本《台灣全民安全指引》這個手冊其實也獲得了我們歐洲勇盟的肯定內容有涵蓋的天然災害敵情威脅還有民防避難的資訊雖然說我們有網路版跟數位版可是有考量到部分高齡長者不熟悉線上下載的資料再加上危機來臨的時候可能也會斷電 |
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9736.726 |
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9759.719 |
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斷網等等所以覺得說普發這個紙本的手冊其實有它的這個必要性所以本席在這領域肯定可是我們還是有忽略了一些弱勢族群例如說行動不便者臥床者視障人士還有天障人士還有需要這些需要特別協助的這些照顧族群我發現在這個手冊裡面我們沒有看到說 |
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9760.559 |
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9769.147 |
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要教導一般的民眾在災害的時候如何協助這些弱勢者因為我有發現就是說其實我們這個諮詢的機構單位其實有內政部教育部經濟部農業部還有衛福部 |
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9777.034 |
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9792.604 |
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環境部跟抒發部等等我也不曉得當初那時候衛福部針對這個手冊怎麼沒有給予這方面的這個這個建議那為什麼本席會特別留意這個部分因為我有發現像日本日本最近呢他正在演繹一項計畫就是說在這個暫時如果要處理因應這個長期避難或者是疏散的時候呢 |
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9801.289 |
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9829.589 |
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他有特別就是留意到像高齡者住院患者等等的支援的措施而且日本的計畫預計是要在2026年的時候就要制定基本的藥齡所以我是在手冊裡面並沒有看到這個部分所以請問副部長當初我們在制定手冊的時候是不是說有一些部分我們還沒有比較周詳的部分這以後有沒有辦法來做一個精進 |
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9830.79 |
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9848.018 |
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報告委員謝謝您的指導我想當時在考量因素的時候上衛福部有提出來像有些年長者長照的或醫院的這樣子的一個情境那我們想說這一次是先普發來看大家意見為什麼因為 |
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9849.248 |
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9868.878 |
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各方的意見都很多專家學有很多意見那最後檢討是說如何把這個意見中整起來比如說放在QR code去掃這個QR code那這些東西都是什麼都是在我們日後在各方意見發下去以後不足的地方我們要來彌補也謝謝委員提醒像這些我們也考慮到比如說這些弱勢團體比如說他 |
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9872.833 |
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9885.962 |
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眼睛看不太好的需要這個長者看不清楚的這些等等我們都聽到意見了那如何去改善那我想這都是日後我們要精進的地方對像有些譬如說聽障者好了你也許有這個警報警報也許他聽不清楚像這個的話我們如何來做協助 |
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9895.568 |
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9922.385 |
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這部分我在這個冊子裡面我是沒看到這個部分也許就像副部長所提到的可能還在收集一些意見可是我在想竟然要發當初應該要設想的這個周全尤其是針對這些弱勢族群的話我是覺得真的很需要民眾而且不是他如何協助自己而是一般民眾如果發現這種狀況的話我們是要如何協助這些弱勢族群我想這個部分應該也要 |
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9923.285 |
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9947.839 |
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列进这个手册里面这个我们未来会考量对 因为本席也看到日本其实也在拧定相关的这个计划所以我想这个部分应该有台湾可以借进的这个地方所以也希望就是说国防部未来在制定相关的这个手册的时候应该要多一些考量这部分的话 请副部长请回再来我要邀请的是内政部刘士芳部长 |
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9955.824 |
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9977.205 |
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接下來我要提到的就是有關你這個消防警報像過去的話在疫情期間彰化橋友大樓發生了這個火警的警報可是第一時間大家都不覺得說這個是真的發生火災大家都覺得說這可能是一個測試一個testing所以到那時候就發生了一些讓人家遺憾的一些傷亡事件 |
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9977.825 |
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9992.545 |
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那後來後續也是你看我們2023年2024年陸陸續續都有發生就是說大樓的這火警的警報響了可是大家就是有些網友說啊天啊怎麼都沒有看到有人在逃好像大家對於這個消防警報呢 |
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9993.325 |
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10001.372 |
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沒有一個說我立即就要逃的這種反射動作對 那以後遇到空襲警報也好 海嘯警報是不是民眾也都會認為說這其實就是一個測試沒有那麼立即性的這個危險那也許因為這種想法會造成一些讓人家遺憾的這個後果 |
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10012.941 |
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10019.565 |
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所以像這個的部分我們要如何提升這個一般民眾對於這個消防警報的謝謝委員的指教我想這個部分呢為什麼我們發放這個手冊就是告訴大家說那個意識要提升啦不是說大家跑你再跟著跑而是你要先跑那這個意識的提升呢我相信我們未來消防安全的教育上面一定會再加強那同時呢我們大概會有這個你剛講到海嘯的部分第一個海嘯的話我們中央氣象署也會發 |
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10041.539 |
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10047.027 |
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然後警察的系統也會發那還有如果時間來得及的話我們搭配地方的警察會用廣播車的方式像這次艷澀湖因為這個村里長辦公室的廣播系統壞掉那警察同仁趕快用他們手上的麥克風去處理這一塊 |
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10084.36 |
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那這個部分未來在消防演習的時候我們會把這個所謂的消防警報的警鈴是不是不要造成所謂的狼來了這樣的效應會在做意識上提升的教育對 所以目前看到的就是說也許空襲警報 海嘯警報這個部分的話當然是同跟這個消防警報雖然是同一個議題可是消防警報可能是大家接觸的最頻繁的 |
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10085.941 |
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10101.431 |
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一個議題可是我們發現說現在有很多的民眾都會覺得像部長剛才覺得說狼來了狼來了所以每次遇到消防警報大家都覺得說這可能又是一個測試這可能不是真的有火警發聲所以這個部分我想這部分應該要來做加強 |
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10102.231 |
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10115.881 |
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那這部分的話因為我們在公共場所裡面的火災警報他們的火警送運總機接收到信號就會產生這樣的一個警報那對於這一個各個場所的一個管理權人怎麼樣來加強他對這個設備的 |
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10133.593 |
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維護 同時能夠來反應萬一有警靈真的響的時候他要第一時間啟動他的智慧消防編組來引導他的客人趕快的往這個安全梯往外來疏散我們會來持續的加強宣導我們確實都有一些SOP可是我們就發現現在就是民眾的這個心態這個如何要提高他們這個警惕我覺得消防署的同仁 |
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他們都會盡到我們的這個責任去做宣導但是如果大樓的管理委員會他們的主管或者是大樓管理委員會裡面的管理人員也搭配他們的一個廣播系統會更有效因為 |
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10187.39 |
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聽剛剛副署長跟我講說也許有的警鈴可能是漏電或幹嘛的會有出現這個狀況但是無論怎麼樣要提升全民的這樣危機意識你只要聽到警報響無論怎麼樣先逃生比較重要這個部分我們未來會來加強就是重點就是部長後面所提到的就是提高民眾的警覺性提高他們就是說我聽到這個警鈴其實我第一個想法是 |
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10188.03 |
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10201.599 |
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真的可能有火警要發聲我要先逃而不是覺得說我遇到的這可能是測試目前現在很多大家都覺得說這是測試所以都沒有在逃就發生了危害的狀況好這部分的話還是要再加強了OK好以上謝謝 |
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10205.767 |
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10224.092 |
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謝謝羅美玲委員的發言接下來我們請鍾嘉斌委員鍾嘉斌委員鍾嘉斌委員不在現在請蘇清泉委員蘇清泉委員蘇清泉委員蘇清泉委員不在接下來我們請林倩琦委員林倩琦委員林倩琦委員不在接下來我們請賴氏寶委員 |
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10225.332 |
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10240.26 |
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賴世保委員賴世保委員不在請陳冠廷委員陳冠廷委員陳冠廷委員陳冠廷不在請葉元之委員葉元之委員葉元之委員葉元之委員不在 |
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10243.021 |
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10267.788 |
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登記發言委員除不在場者外其餘均已發言完畢答詢結 詢答結束委員丁學中 高靜淑美 鍾嘉斌所提書面質詢列入紀錄攤登公報書面質詢和未及答覆部分請相關部相關單位於一週內以書面答覆並資 複資本會本次會議到此結束現在散會 |
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這裏有個大廈,這裏有個餐廳 |